From henk@ripe.net Wed Dec 2 00:56:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C188D3A6A14; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:56:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.963, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LZm2s2a9qaiG; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:56:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ripe.net [193.0.19.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2026A3A6A05; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:56:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from herring.ripe.net ([193.0.1.203]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NFl0t-0004C5-1X; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:56:43 +0100 Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net (ayeaye.ripe.net [193.0.1.103]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082C92F594; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:56:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from henk.vpn.ripe.net ([193.0.21.33] helo=guest-67.ripe.net) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NFl0s-0000NK-T5; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:56:42 +0100 Message-ID: <4B162BCA.9060604@ripe.net> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:56:42 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The IESG , Lars Eggert , Al Morton , Matthew J Zekauskas , steven.vandenberghe@intec.ugent.be, IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: e0cdef1f45f89a40ad608d255b27e7d53bfb4edfbae8a04c1909e20178198021 Subject: [ippm] Publication request: draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-08.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 08:56:56 -0000 Lars, IESG-secretary, The IPPM WG requests publication of draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-08.txt as in informational RFC. The sheperd write-up for the document is below. There is one practical problem with the document. Sometime during the last couple of months, one of the editors (Steven v/d Berghe) has disappeared from the face of the earth. We knew that he'd change affiliations soon but now his email address started to bounce and he has not provided us with updated coordinates. We're trying to locate him. I don't think this affects WG consensus and the other editor is there to do any work required in the next steps. We can decide later to drop him as an editor if he continues to be MIA. Henk - - - - (1.a) Who is the Document Shepherd for this document? Has the Document Shepherd personally reviewed this version of the document and, in particular, does he or she believe this version is ready for forwarding to the IESG for publication? Document sheperd is Henk Uijterwaal. He would not have bothered to write this note if he didn't believe that the document was ready for publication. (1.b) Has the document had adequate review both from key WG members and from key non-WG members? About 15 WG members and other interested particpants read the document and provided comments. This is a very high number for an IPPM document. I don't see issues with the depth of the reviews. (1.c) Does the Document Shepherd have concerns that the document needs more review from a particular or broader perspective, No. (1.d) Does the Document Shepherd have any specific concerns or issues with this document that the Responsible Area Director and/or the IESG should be aware of? No, there are no such concerns. There is a section on IPR, but this there to indicate what has to be done if the framework is used with metrics where IPR is an issue, it doesn't constitute an IPR disclosure as such. (1.e) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with it? Strong, with some 15 members of the group reviewing it. (1.f) Has anyone threatened an appeal or otherwise indicated extreme discontent? No. (1.g) Has the Document Shepherd personally verified that the document satisfies all ID nits? There are 2 small issues: == Outdated reference: A later version (-12) exists of draft-ietf-ippm-multimetrics-11, in fact this document has been published as an RFC. The reference needs to be updated. == There is a comment around line 366 (section 4.1). I believe this is is an editorial note that must be removed before publication. Both comments can be addressed at the same time as IESG comments are addressed. (1.h) Has the document split its references into normative and informative? Are there normative references to documents that are not ready for advancement or are otherwise in an unclear state? Yes. No. (1.i) Has the Document Shepherd verified that the document IANA consideration section exists and is consistent with the body of the document? Yes, it exists and no actions from the IANA are expected. (1.j) Has the Document Shepherd verified that sections of the document that are written in a formal language, such as XML code, BNF rules, MIB definitions, etc., validate correctly in an automated checker? N/A. (1.k) The IESG approval announcement includes a Document Announcement Write-Up. Please provide such a Document Announcement Write-Up? Recent examples can be found in the "Action" announcements for approved documents. The approval announcement contains the following sections: Technical Summary This memo describes a detailed framework for composing and aggregating metrics (both in time and in space) originally defined by the IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) RFC 2330 and developed by the IETF. This new framework memo describes the generic composition and aggregation mechanisms. The memo provides a basis for additional documents that implement the framework to define detailed compositions and aggregations of metrics which are useful in practice. Working Group Summary The normal WG process was followed and the document has been discussed for several years. The document as it is now, reflects WG consensus, with nothing special worth noticing. Document Quality This is a framework document, implementations for specific situations (spatial, temporal, etc) will be discussed in future documents. -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.xs4all.nl/~henku P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public. H.L.Mencken From henk@ripe.net Wed Dec 2 03:14:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F102C28C169 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 03:14:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.881 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.718, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FzkRvRMaz6Gg for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 03:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from postgirl.ripe.net (postgirl.ripe.net [193.0.19.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDEE328C17F for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 03:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from herring.ripe.net ([193.0.1.203]) by postgirl.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NFn9s-0002Io-AQ for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:14:08 +0100 Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net (ayeaye.ripe.net [193.0.1.103]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3EB2F593 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:14:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from henk.vpn.ripe.net ([193.0.21.33] helo=guest-67.ripe.net) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NFn9s-0002HN-88 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:14:08 +0100 Message-ID: <4B164C00.3060509@ripe.net> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:14:08 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: e0cdef1f45f89a40ad608d255b27e7d56d7b063ba018a0b2663cf87fc032741b Subject: [ippm] WG interest in draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:14:23 -0000 IPPM group, In Hiroshima, Barry presented possible new work on TCP Throughput Testing Methodology http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt We'd like to know if you feel that this is work that the IPPM group should pick up and, if so, who is interested to contribute to this document. Please post your thoughts before January 4, 2010. Matt & Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.xs4all.nl/~henku P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public. H.L.Mencken From henk@ripe.net Wed Dec 2 06:50:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 362313A688A for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 06:50:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.395 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.395 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.912, BAYES_00=-2.599, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TAN1YT5z4rkQ for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 06:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from postgirl.ripe.net (postgirl.ripe.net [193.0.19.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EC763A6873 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 06:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from herring.ripe.net ([193.0.1.203]) by postgirl.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NFqX7-00033e-5i for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:50:21 +0100 Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net (ayeaye.ripe.net [193.0.1.103]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 282A62F593 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:50:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from henk.vpn.ripe.net ([193.0.21.33] helo=guest-67.ripe.net) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NFqX7-000574-2v for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:50:21 +0100 Message-ID: <4B167EAC.4@ripe.net> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:50:20 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ippm >> IETF IPPM WG" References: <4B13A337.7050501@ripe.net> In-Reply-To: <4B13A337.7050501@ripe.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: e0cdef1f45f89a40ad608d255b27e7d51b74c12c8653a66cbc76987a58d56d9a Subject: Re: [ippm] Preparing for a WGLC draft draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-reflect-octets-03 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:50:33 -0000 Increasing the readership of this document by 1... > At the last IPPM WG meeting, the authors stated that the draft: > > TWAMP Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-reflect-octets-03 > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-reflect-octets-03.txt I don't see anything obviously wrong with this document. Some details: Abstract: I think it should be made (more) clear here that these are 2 optional features, where one can implement one or both, and that existing implementations will continue to work regardless. Section 1. "There are a growing number TWAMP implementations". * s/are a growing number/is a growning number of/ * If this statement is correct, then we should try to get an overview of who is implementing and ask those folks specifically to review this doc. Section 1, last sentence. It is not really an update, more a extension, one still has to look at the basic protocol to implement. Section 2, the two bullet points. Do we have specific cases where one would use these features. I can imagine the symmetric size case but the other one isn't immediately obvious to me. 3.1. There is a hidden IANA request in there. 4. For all the diagrams, I think it would be good to explicitly state which diagram it replaces in 5357. 6.4: Point back to section 3.1. And why are 5 and 32, and 6 and 64 suggested (skipping 4 and 16)? Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.xs4all.nl/~henku P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public. H.L.Mencken From acmorton@att.com Wed Dec 2 12:27:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80FE23A695C for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:27:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5DsvliZd0zZ9 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:27:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail167.messagelabs.com (mail167.messagelabs.com [216.82.253.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB58F3A657C for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:27:46 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-167.messagelabs.com!1259785657!20836847!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.112.25] Received: (qmail 14473 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2009 20:27:38 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp3.sbc.com (HELO tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com) (144.160.112.25) by server-7.tower-167.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 2 Dec 2009 20:27:38 -0000 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB2KRbjb015611 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:27:37 -0600 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB2KRXTh015425 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:27:33 -0600 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB2KRWIT012213 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:27:33 -0500 Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB2KRT4n011998 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:27:29 -0500 Message-Id: <200912022027.nB2KRT4n011998@alpd052.aldc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (dyp004259dys.mt.att.com[135.16.251.234](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20091202202728gw10014qq1e>; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:27:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.16.251.234] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:26:55 -0500 To: Henk Uijterwaal From: Al Morton In-Reply-To: <4B167EAC.4@ripe.net> References: <4B13A337.7050501@ripe.net> <4B167EAC.4@ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: "ippm >> IETF IPPM WG" Subject: Re: [ippm] Preparing for a WGLC draft draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-reflect-octets-03 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 20:27:47 -0000 Henk, thanks for your review and comments. One quick reply to At 09:50 AM 12/2/2009, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: >...Section 1, last sentence. > It is not really an update, more a extension, one still has to look at > the basic protocol to implement. The mixed security mode RFC is an extension, and requires the basic protocol, and we made it an update to 5357: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5618 So, we were just trying to be consistent. I don't think there's an official "extension" status. Al From mhamilton@breakingpoint.com Wed Dec 2 13:31:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC09B3A6975 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:31:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.09 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_EQ_STATIC=1.172, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pV-rJkfWboLg for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:31:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from bpointsys.com (65-36-7-9.static.grandenetworks.net [65.36.7.9]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8DF3A6912 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:31:16 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:31:01 -0600 Message-ID: <383EF70E894C52438F955558754247FD09BB274C@mail.securitytestsystems.com> In-Reply-To: <4B164C00.3060509@ripe.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ippm] WG interest indraft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt Thread-Index: Acpzlr55xLewMjDtQZOkk3sREG3kXA== References: <4B164C00.3060509@ripe.net> From: "Mike Hamilton" To: "Henk Uijterwaal" , "IETF IPPM WG" Subject: Re: [ippm] WG interest indraft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:31:18 -0000 I fully support this work and am interested in contributing. Thanks! Mike Hamilton -----Original Message----- From: Henk Uijterwaal [mailto:henk@ripe.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:14 AM To: IETF IPPM WG Subject: [ippm] WG interest indraft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt IPPM group, In Hiroshima, Barry presented possible new work on TCP Throughput Testing Methodology =20 http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt We'd like to know if you feel that this is work that the IPPM group should pick up and, if so, who is interested to contribute to this document. Please post your thoughts before January 4, 2010. Matt & Henk --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.xs4all.nl/~henku P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public. =20 H.L.Mencken From lars.eggert@nokia.com Thu Dec 3 09:13:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F44B28C150 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 09:13:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ls2A7fRkVbMo for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 09:13:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com (mail.fit.nokia.com [195.148.124.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E1828C175 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 09:13:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from 64-129-13-97.static.twtelecom.net (64-129-13-97.static.twtelecom.net [64.129.13.97] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.fit.nokia.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB3HD7Qa011734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:13:10 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lars.eggert@nokia.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-18-232829062; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Lars Eggert In-Reply-To: <4B162BCA.9060604@ripe.net> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 07:13:06 -1000 Message-Id: References: <4B162BCA.9060604@ripe.net> To: Henk Uijterwaal X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (mail.fit.nokia.com [195.148.124.194]); Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:13:12 +0200 (EET) Cc: steven.vandenberghe@intec.ugent.be, Al Morton , IETF IPPM WG , Matthew Zekauskas Subject: Re: [ippm] Publication request: draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-08.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:13:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail-18-232829062 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2009-12-1, at 22:56, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: > I don't think this affects WG consensus and the other editor is there = to > do any work required in the next steps. We can decide later to drop = him > as an editor if he continues to be MIA. the chairs can figure out with the other editors who should be listed on = the first page while we do the last call. I note that we can also simply leave him on there (give that he probably = has contributed sufficiently in the past?) and I will do an "AD = override" if he remains unresponsive during AUTH48. 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Thu, 3 Dec 2009 14:44:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kv7LmIa3Cbzs for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 14:44:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail146.messagelabs.com (mail146.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333743A6944 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 14:44:32 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-146.messagelabs.com!1259880259!15267464!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.112.25] Received: (qmail 10844 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2009 22:44:20 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp3.sbc.com (HELO tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com) (144.160.112.25) by server-8.tower-146.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 3 Dec 2009 22:44:20 -0000 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB3MiLD6003362 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:44:22 -0600 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB3MiC2s003179 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:44:12 -0600 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB3MiCFv022095 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:44:12 -0500 Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB3Mi32v021931 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:44:03 -0500 Message-Id: <200912032244.nB3Mi32v021931@alpd052.aldc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (dyp004259dys.mt.att.com[135.16.251.234](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20091203224402gw10021u0qe>; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:44:03 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.16.251.234] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:43:15 -0500 To: Lars Eggert , Henk Uijterwaal From: Al Morton In-Reply-To: References: <4B162BCA.9060604@ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Matthew Zekauskas , IETF IPPM WG Subject: Re: [ippm] Publication request: draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-08.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 22:44:34 -0000 I just found Steven on LinkedIn! He's at AlcaLu now, Al At 12:13 PM 12/3/2009, Lars Eggert wrote: >Hi, > >On 2009-12-1, at 22:56, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: > > I don't think this affects WG consensus and the other editor is there to > > do any work required in the next steps. We can decide later to drop him > > as an editor if he continues to be MIA. > >the chairs can figure out with the other editors who should be >listed on the first page while we do the last call. > >I note that we can also simply leave him on there (give that he >probably has contributed sufficiently in the past?) and I will do an >"AD override" if he remains unresponsive during AUTH48. > >Lars > >_______________________________________________ >ippm mailing list >ippm@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From lars.eggert@nokia.com Thu Dec 3 20:31:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B21D3A6883 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 20:31:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ctd4rXQFb2To for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 20:31:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com (mail.fit.nokia.com [195.148.124.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395513A6840 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 20:31:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.60.198] (64-129-14-254.static.twtelecom.net [64.129.14.254] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.fit.nokia.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB44UwnF093108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 06:31:01 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lars.eggert@nokia.com) From: Lars Eggert Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-273495539; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 18:30:53 -1000 Message-Id: To: IETF IPPM WG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (mail.fit.nokia.com [195.148.124.194]); Fri, 04 Dec 2009 06:31:02 +0200 (EET) Subject: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-08 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 04:31:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail-1-273495539 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, this draft is ready for IETF last call, modulo the few issues below. Lars Section 2., paragraph 2: > At this time, the scope of effort is limited to composed metrics for > packet loss, delay, and delay variation. Composition of packet > reordering metrics is considered a research topic at the time this > memo was prepared, and beyond its scope. Please add informative references to the respective RFCs for the metrics you intend this to be applicable to. Section 3.10., paragraph 2: > Desitination hosts may perform the funtion of measurement points. Nit: s/Desitination/Destination/ Nit: s/funtion/function/ Section 3.10., paragraph 3: > consession). Nit: s/consession)./concession)./ Section 4.1., paragraph 4: > >>>>>>>>Comment: Why no forecasting? This was apparently a limit on > the Geant2 project, but may not apply here. Something should be done with this note. 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Fri, 4 Dec 2009 00:44:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.207 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.207 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.607, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8qdz99zhpyTh for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 00:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ripe.net [193.0.19.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DFB43A68C4 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 00:44:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from herring.ripe.net ([193.0.1.203]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NGTmF-0000eV-Nv; Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:44:35 +0100 Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net (ayeaye.ripe.net [193.0.1.103]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B22BB2F593; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 09:44:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from henk.vpn.ripe.net ([193.0.21.33] helo=guest-67.ripe.net) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NGTmF-0004Mq-KS; Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:44:35 +0100 Message-ID: <4B18CBF3.3030603@ripe.net> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:44:35 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Al Morton References: <4B162BCA.9060604@ripe.net> <200912032244.nB3Mi3kJ021929@alpd052.aldc.att.com> In-Reply-To: <200912032244.nB3Mi3kJ021929@alpd052.aldc.att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: e0cdef1f45f89a40ad608d255b27e7d5d064c4edc20b6cfcf95b679736c72a2f Cc: Matthew Zekauskas , IETF IPPM WG Subject: Re: [ippm] Publication request: draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-08.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 08:44:50 -0000 Al Morton wrote: > I just found Steven on LinkedIn! > He's at AlcaLu now, Good, I've sent him a note asking if he wants to be on page 1 and if so, for new coordinates. Henk > Al > > At 12:13 PM 12/3/2009, Lars Eggert wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On 2009-12-1, at 22:56, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: >> > I don't think this affects WG consensus and the other editor is >> there to >> > do any work required in the next steps. We can decide later to drop >> him >> > as an editor if he continues to be MIA. >> >> the chairs can figure out with the other editors who should be listed >> on the first page while we do the last call. >> >> I note that we can also simply leave him on there (give that he >> probably has contributed sufficiently in the past?) and I will do an >> "AD override" if he remains unresponsive during AUTH48. >> >> Lars >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ippm mailing list >> ippm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.xs4all.nl/~henku P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public. H.L.Mencken From acmorton@att.com Fri Dec 4 05:22:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833853A67A4 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 05:22:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.65 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.65 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.146, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VV9g-KKxiPkq for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 05:22:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail167.messagelabs.com (mail167.messagelabs.com [216.82.253.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACEBC3A67F0 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 05:22:38 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-167.messagelabs.com!1259932948!20936295!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.112.25] Received: (qmail 11793 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2009 13:22:29 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp3.sbc.com (HELO tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com) (144.160.112.25) by server-7.tower-167.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 4 Dec 2009 13:22:29 -0000 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB4DMS45032362 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 07:22:28 -0600 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB4DMM9p031785 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 07:22:23 -0600 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB4DML7i029199 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 08:22:22 -0500 Received: from maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB4DMG85029110 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 08:22:17 -0500 Message-Id: <200912041322.nB4DMG85029110@alpd052.aldc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (vpn-135-70-66-28.vpn.swst.att.com[135.70.66.28](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20091204132215gw10021u1pe>; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 13:22:16 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.66.28] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 08:21:27 -0500 To: Lars Eggert , IETF IPPM WG From: Al Morton In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-08 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:22:39 -0000 At 11:30 PM 12/3/2009, Lars Eggert wrote: >this draft is ready for IETF last call, modulo the few issues below. > >Lars Thanks, I'll take care of these (plus Henk's PubReq/Shepherd comments) and post a new version when I get Steven's new e-mail and other coordinates. Al (I thought I had already fixed the spelling in a few cases, maybe there's a -09 on my hard drive already...) From ljorgenson@apparentnetworks.com Fri Dec 4 10:20:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998973A677D for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:20:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dkMIWyme6sK9 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:20:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from JSRVR18.jaalam.net (relay2.apparentnetworks.net [209.139.228.52]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D05A3A676A for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:20:30 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: ac108108-00000de8000007a0-4c-4b1952e7420b Received: from jsrvr8.jaalam.net ([172.16.128.105] RDNS failed) by JSRVR18.jaalam.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:20:23 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:20:20 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm Thread-Index: AcpzidkR4FvUWyO+SCqqk/J25to6VABgiC6g References: From: "Loki Jorgenson" To: X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: [ippm] draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 18:20:32 -0000 I have already been discussing the prospects for this draft with Barry. I am interested in subsequent discussion within this group to see this topic advanced. I would certainly contribute effort towards a final draft. There are several challenging issues to be addressed - not the least of which is how or even whether a set of constraints can be adequately defined that validate a given TCP performance model for use within a measurement methodology. Selecting or validating specific models does not seem appropriate for this draft - but its hard to ignore the underlying network behaviors while defining a methodology. I'd like to hear what people like Matt Mathis, who have attempted similar efforts, would identify as the critical issues in this undertaking.=20 -----Original Message----- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:14:08 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal Subject: [ippm] WG interest in draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt To: IETF IPPM WG Message-ID: <4B164C00.3060509@ripe.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed IPPM group, In Hiroshima, Barry presented possible new work on TCP Throughput Testing Methodology =20 http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt We'd like to know if you feel that this is work that the IPPM group should pick up and, if so, who is interested to contribute to this document. Please post your thoughts before January 4, 2010. -- Loki Jorgenson Apparent Networks t 604 433 2333 ext 105 m 604 250-4642 From gilles.forget@sympatico.ca Sun Dec 6 12:35:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020113A6856 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 2009 12:35:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.804 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.804 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QtjJbLAicX6h for ; Sun, 6 Dec 2009 12:35:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu0-omc4-s14.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s14.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.153]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215B23A680B for ; Sun, 6 Dec 2009 12:35:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU0-SMTP96 ([65.55.111.136]) by blu0-omc4-s14.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 6 Dec 2009 12:35:38 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [70.48.62.219] X-Originating-Email: [gilles.forget@sympatico.ca] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.35] ([70.48.62.219]) by BLU0-SMTP96.blu0.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 6 Dec 2009 12:35:37 -0800 From: Gilles Forget To: Henk Uijterwaal In-Reply-To: <4B164C00.3060509@ripe.net> References: <4B164C00.3060509@ripe.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2009 15:35:36 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2009 20:35:37.0735 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB391970:01CA76B3] Cc: IETF IPPM WG Subject: Re: [ippm] WG interest in draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2009 20:35:49 -0000 IPPM group, First I would like to congratulate Matt & Henk for all the efforts made so far and I confirm my strong support for Barry's TCP-troughput testing draft. I have been involved in data communications since the TTY days while I was working for Bell Canada. For a little more than a year now, I have been working as an independant consultant in telecommunications, mainly on the internetworking side. I can assure you that there is a real need for TCP testing. When network providers were only involved at the physical layer, the rules were clearly defined either by CCITT later ITU-T, or by ANSI and BELLCORE later TELCORDIA in North-America. Although, as soon as the network providers started to get involved at layer 2 of the OSI model with Frame-Relay and ATM protocols, the situation became confused and finger pointing took place more and more. In our days, most network providers are involved at layer 3 with IP, IP-VPN and MPLS network services. Finger pointing is still an issue and is getting very counterproductive everywhere on the planet. I am no PhD, although I would be more than happy to bring my modest contribution based on actual field experience in business corporate networks. I could contribute by making sure that the eventual recommendations are applicable to measure performance in real networks. Thanks, Gilles Forget, CCNP. On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 12:14 +0100, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: > IPPM group, > > In Hiroshima, Barry presented possible new work on > > TCP Throughput Testing Methodology > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt > > We'd like to know if you feel that this is work that the IPPM group > should pick up and, if so, who is interested to contribute to this > document. Please post your thoughts before January 4, 2010. > > > Matt & Henk > -- Gilles Forget, CCNP T : 450.473.5718 C : 514.895.8212 @ : gilles.forget@sympatico.ca From vinayakh@gmail.com Mon Dec 7 00:09:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6A673A6A15 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2009 00:09:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.67 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.67 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.930, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wsn2EfZ0kPxb for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2009 00:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ew0-f211.google.com (mail-ew0-f211.google.com [209.85.219.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72393A6A0F for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2009 00:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by ewy3 with SMTP id 3so754817ewy.13 for ; Mon, 07 Dec 2009 00:09:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=DmScSocd1mrnxSjsEFbFWfZTTjv2Klgrn48mhLS7nvk=; b=FftOnWFlDAkhY3U7eKRvIiTle9jV73k+44CXkmvhx9bZwTY/kmxEDTP1/Z8DiOEQBv wBR5bfzhohNeUCm+q28A10wnSFu4HFMPSJezGB9qYdP/qUmrx4F/RVuKZCx/8yuD5tW0 JWCTq/i/8s2VsVqDM0+t9cSxRQtc2ozY5kOrA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fhftZClYVwrQCsDETJXdhGyOqSNY5hqCHBX6E9vMJysrUx2SqaXs5IXksXAgAVbflI oOYR2HrN/2bSSh3hD6lsrwioAUXx6ZCnaaoNwLQQ+WGuIEobWYITqJJTQvwLseQqvIS1 c0NMELvuvQgi/OoUb2EGZuYDgeCyh8z/LQBlQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.86.193 with SMTP id w43mr2131552wee.17.1260173379664; Mon, 07 Dec 2009 00:09:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B164C00.3060509@ripe.net> References: <4B164C00.3060509@ripe.net> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:39:39 +0530 Message-ID: <38940f3c0912070009h160115anf8b399ee2a13709d@mail.gmail.com> From: Vinayak Hegde To: Henk Uijterwaal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: IETF IPPM WG Subject: Re: [ippm] WG interest in draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:09:54 -0000 On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: > IPPM group, > > In Hiroshima, Barry presented possible new work on > > =A0TCP Throughput Testing Methodology > =A0http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-constantine-ippm-tcp-throughput-tm-00.txt > > We'd like to know if you feel that this is work that the IPPM group > should pick up and, if so, who is interested to contribute to this > document. =A0 Please post your thoughts before January 4, 2010. I think IPPM should pick this up. This is an important area that needs to be addressed and I will be happy to contribute to the progress of this draft as a reviewer. Regards Vinayak From Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de Tue Dec 8 03:13:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3230A28C107 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 03:13:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xyvKJSVwmq8C for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 03:13:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from tcmail33.telekom.de (tcmail33.telekom.de [194.25.30.7]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B6128C10B for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 03:13:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from s4de8psaans.blf.telekom.de (HELO s4de8psaans.mitte.t-com.de) ([10.151.180.168]) by tcmail31.telekom.de with ESMTP; 08 Dec 2009 12:13:39 +0100 Received: from S4DE8PSAAQA.mitte.t-com.de ([10.151.229.12]) by s4de8psaans.mitte.t-com.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 8 Dec 2009 12:13:39 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 12:13:35 +0100 Message-ID: <151C164FE2E066418D8D44D0801543A502BC7210@S4DE8PSAAQA.mitte.t-com.de> In-Reply-To: <4B00FD3A.4050206@ripe.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: thread-topic: Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition thread-index: Acpmk16BDk4o9u4bRgiofQvLIhlSmgRWsSLw References: <4B00FD3A.4050206@ripe.net> From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2009 11:13:39.0480 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E673180:01CA77F7] Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:13:59 -0000 Al, Emile, the draft is indeed in a good shape and I support it progressing through = last call. Hope I'm not too late again with the two comments I have. 5.3.2. Definition and Metric Units of the Minimum Statistic Defines how to determine the minimum delay (singleton or sample) of each = sub path. 5.3.5. Composition Function: Sum of Minima The Type-P-Finite--Composite-One-way-Delay-Minimum, or CompMinDelay, for the complete Source to Destination path can be calculated from sum of the Minimum Delays of all its S constituent sub-paths. 5.3.9. Specific cases where the conjecture might fail If the routing on any of the sub-paths is not stable, then the measured minimum may not be stable. In this case the composite minimum would tend to produce an estimate for the complete path that may be too low for the current path. 5.3.9 may not address transmission layer resilience (or effects of load = balancing) sufficiently well. Should routing/resilience in other layers = be mentioned here explicitely? Maybe a reference to section "4.1.8 = Sources of Deviation from the Ground Truth" may be useful here. ------- 7.1.5.1. Approximate Convolution The Type-P-Finite-One-way-Delay-Poisson/Periodic-Stream samples from each sub-path are summarized as a histogram with 1 ms bins representing the one-way delay distribution. 7.1.8. Sources of Deviation from the Ground Truth In addition to the common deviations, a few additional sources exist here. For one, very tight distributions with range on the order of a few milliseconds are not accurately represented by a histogram with 1 ms bins. This size was chosen assuming an implicit requirement on accuracy: errors of a few milliseconds are acceptable when assessing a composed distribution quantile. There may be a hidden assumption on the measurement points, network = bandwidth and load conditions or measurement intervals and average = singleton frequency applicable here. It may be helpful to add a little = more text, under which conditions this convolution produces useful = results (or mention that these factors have an impact). More explicit: = if there need to be results in more than one or two millisecond bins to = apply this metric, this should be mentioned.=20 -------- Regards, Ruediger Deutsche Telekom Netzproduktion GmbH Zentrum Technik Einf=FChrung R=FCdiger Geib Heinrich-Hertz-Stra=DFe 3-7, 64295 Darmstadt +49 6151 628-2747 (Tel.) +49 251 7985 209 (Fax) http://www.telekom.com Deutsche Telekom Netzproduktion GmbH Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Steffen Roehn (Vorsitzender) Gesch=E4ftsf=FChrung: Dr. Bruno Jacobfeuerborn (Vorsitzender), Albert = Matheis, Klaus Peren Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn HRB 14190 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Bonn USt-IdNr. DE 814645262 From acmorton@att.com Tue Dec 8 08:52:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2CCC3A68EC for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 08:52:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.675 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.675 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.122, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SJOwKYb3ypRP for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 08:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail146.messagelabs.com (mail146.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187113A6866 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 08:52:37 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-146.messagelabs.com!1260291145!6664673!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.112.25] Received: (qmail 27283 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2009 16:52:25 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp3.sbc.com (HELO tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com) (144.160.112.25) by server-10.tower-146.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 8 Dec 2009 16:52:25 -0000 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB8GqNnR023777 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:52:24 -0600 Received: from klpd017.kcdc.att.com (klpd017.kcdc.att.com [135.188.40.86]) by tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB8GqJKm023595 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:52:19 -0600 Received: from kcdc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by klpd017.kcdc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB8GqJLO025128 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:52:19 -0600 Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by klpd017.kcdc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB8GqEFf024872 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:52:15 -0600 Message-Id: <200912081652.nB8GqEFf024872@klpd017.kcdc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (vpn-135-70-0-193.vpn.west.att.com[135.70.0.193](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20091208165213gw10021uede>; Tue, 8 Dec 2009 16:52:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.0.193] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:51:14 -0500 To: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de From: Al Morton In-Reply-To: <151C164FE2E066418D8D44D0801543A502BC7210@S4DE8PSAAQA.mitte .t-com.de> References: <4B00FD3A.4050206@ripe.net> <151C164FE2E066418D8D44D0801543A502BC7210@S4DE8PSAAQA.mitte.t-com.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:52:39 -0000 Hi Ruediger, Thanks for your (not too late) review and comments. Last year, I lost some comments on this topic that arrived during December. I hope that doesn't happen this time... regards, Al At 06:13 AM 12/8/2009, Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de wrote: >Al, Emile, > >the draft is indeed in a good shape and I=20 >support it progressing through last call. Hope=20 >I'm not too late again with the two comments I have. > > 5.3.2. Definition and Metric Units of the Minimum Statistic > >Defines how to determine the minimum delay=20 >(singleton or sample) of each sub path. > > 5.3.5. Composition Function: Sum of Minima > > The Type-P-Finite--Composite-One-way-Delay-Minimum, or CompMinDelay, > for the complete Source to Destination path can be calculated from > sum of the Minimum Delays of all its S constituent sub-paths. > > 5.3.9. Specific cases where the conjecture might fail > > If the routing on any of the sub-paths is not stable, then the > measured minimum may not be stable. In this case the composite > minimum would tend to produce an estimate for the complete path that > may be too low for the current path. > >5.3.9 may not address transmission layer=20 >resilience (or effects of load balancing)=20 >sufficiently well. Should routing/resilience in=20 >other layers be mentioned here explicitely?=20 >Maybe a reference to section "4.1.8 Sources of=20 >Deviation from the Ground Truth" may be useful here. > >------- > > 7.1.5.1. Approximate Convolution > > The Type-P-Finite-One-way-Delay-Poisson/Periodic-Stream samples from > each sub-path are summarized as a histogram with 1 ms bins > representing the one-way delay distribution. > > 7.1.8. Sources of Deviation from the Ground Truth > > In addition to the common deviations, a few additional sources exist > here. For one, very tight distributions with range on the order of a > few milliseconds are not accurately represented by a histogram with 1 > ms bins. This size was chosen assuming an implicit requirement on > accuracy: errors of a few milliseconds are acceptable when assessing > a composed distribution quantile. > >There may be a hidden assumption on the=20 >measurement points, network bandwidth and load=20 >conditions or measurement intervals and average=20 >singleton frequency applicable here. It may be=20 >helpful to add a little more text, under which=20 >conditions this convolution produces useful=20 >results (or mention that these factors have an=20 >impact). More explicit: if there need to be=20 >results in more than one or two millisecond bins=20 >to apply this metric, this should be mentioned. > >-------- > >Regards, Ruediger > >Deutsche Telekom Netzproduktion GmbH >Zentrum Technik Einf=FChrung >R=FCdiger Geib >Heinrich-Hertz-Stra=DFe 3-7, 64295 Darmstadt >+49 6151 628-2747 (Tel.) >+49 251 7985 209 (Fax) >http://www.telekom.com > >Deutsche Telekom Netzproduktion GmbH >Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Steffen Roehn (Vorsitzender) >Gesch=E4ftsf=FChrung: Dr. Bruno Jacobfeuerborn=20 >(Vorsitzender), Albert Matheis, Klaus Peren >Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn HRB 14190 >Sitz der Gesellschaft: Bonn >USt-IdNr. DE 814645262 From root@core3.amsl.com Sun Dec 20 09:00:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 3645B3A6840; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:00:02 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20091220170002.3645B3A6840@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:00:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D Action:draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-09.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:00:02 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : Framework for Metric Composition Author(s) : A. Morton Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-09.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2009-12-20 This memo describes a detailed framework for composing and aggregating metrics (both in time and in space) originally defined by the IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) RFC 2330 and developed by the IETF. This new framework memo describes the generic composition and aggregation mechanisms. The memo provides a basis for additional documents that implement the framework to define detailed compositions and aggregations of metrics which are useful in practice. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-09.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-09.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-12-20085323.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From wwwrun@core3.amsl.com Mon Dec 21 06:34:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 9317D3A69E7; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:34:51 -0800 (PST) X-idtracker: yes To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Message-Id: <20091221143451.9317D3A69E7@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:34:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Last Call: draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg (Framework for Metric Composition) to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:34:51 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the IP Performance Metrics WG (ippm) to consider the following document: - 'Framework for Metric Composition ' as an Informational RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2010-01-04. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-09.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=14358&rfc_flag=0