From nobody Sun Jun 1 02:42:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55E41A01C9; Sun, 1 Jun 2014 02:42:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S41ipGurOOYL; Sun, 1 Jun 2014 02:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF8311A01C6; Sun, 1 Jun 2014 02:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069DBAC2; Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:42:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id lQ6V3fAO0vu2; Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:42:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:42:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4BB120017; Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:42:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8InRbJFS9Psu; Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:42:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B65420013; Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:42:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2EB352D140C6; Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:42:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:42:29 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" Message-ID: <20140601094229.GA89541@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" , "STARK, BARBARA H" , "ippm@ietf.org" , "lmap@ietf.org" References: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043E070@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140530225620.GA86358@elstar.local> <9966516C6EB5FC4381E05BF80AA55F7734EBC8BF@US70UWXCHMBA02.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9966516C6EB5FC4381E05BF80AA55F7734EBC8BF@US70UWXCHMBA02.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/4zSkyowXhobmWahPdv7skO5WU9Y Cc: "lmap@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] UDP Echo example X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 09:42:43 -0000 Yes, I think this is what I wrote. /js On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 07:10:19PM +0000, Carey, Timothy (Timothy) wrote: > Juergen, > > Wouldn't the selected interface for the UDP test instance be part of the options for the task. The options have the "parameters" for the test which is specific for each test, right? > > As for a MA telling the controller its capabilities - wouldn't it be part of the ma-interface-obj? > > BR, > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:56 PM > To: STARK, BARBARA H > Cc: ippm@ietf.org; lmap@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [lmap] UDP Echo example > > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 05:20:05PM +0000, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: > > > > If we look at the TR-069 data model in [TR-143], we see that MA1's UDP Echo server functionality has input parameters of (1) a port to listen on and (2) a source IP address (MA1 will only respond to UDP packets from this source IP address). In an LMAP world, I think these would be the information-model ma-task-options<0..*>. There is also an input of the network interface to listen on. [I see that while information-model lets the MA tell the Controller what its interfaces are, there's no current linkage to allow an interface to be specified for a ma-task-obj. I think this is probably just an oversight and needs to be added.] > > The interface is just another task option. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Sun Jun 1 12:04:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F9511A0960 for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 07:06:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Py-MdiBS1Dw for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 07:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailrelay.usj.edu.lb (mailrelay.usj.edu.lb [193.227.187.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A292C1A0981 for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 07:06:23 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1401372600-05fac105a3245dd0001-e7AMy4 Received: from Citrus.usj.edu.lb (rectorat2.usj.edu.lb [193.227.187.140]) by mailrelay.usj.edu.lb with ESMTP id pDT7BDYi0Y7zDERL; Thu, 29 May 2014 17:10:00 +0300 (EEST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: marc.ibrahim@usj.edu.lb X-Barracuda-Apparent-Source-IP: 193.227.187.140 Received: from usj.edu.lb (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by Citrus.usj.edu.lb (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4TE63PC006512; Thu, 29 May 2014 17:06:05 +0300 From: "marc.ibrahim" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 17:06:03 +0300 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [lmap] active and passive measurement method / task definition Message-Id: <20140529134146.M20495@usj.edu.lb> In-Reply-To: <20140529133628.GA82746@elstar.local> References: <2EEA459CD95CCB4988BFAFC0F2287B5C5C8441BF@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> <20140529121607.GA82518@elstar.local> <1401366760.51380.YahooMailNeo@web125104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D70E@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <1401367762.8149.YahooMailNeo@web125105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D765@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529130810.GB82599@elstar.local> <20140529131922.M26067@mail.usj.edu.lb> <20140529133628.GA82746@elstar.local> X-Mailer: OpenWebMail 2.53 X-OriginatingIP: 37.209.253.165 (marc.ibrahim) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Barracuda-Connect: rectorat2.usj.edu.lb[193.227.187.140] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1401372600 X-Barracuda-URL: http://mailrelay.usj.edu.lb:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at usj.edu.lb X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.6210 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/TewcH1XCgOq4focJUkuxkIR_dR0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:04:47 -0700 Cc: "lmap@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] active and passive measurement method / task definition X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 14:06:49 -0000 Juergen, I am just trying to discuss what I felt is unclear in the definitions. Let me give a practical example from a project i'm doing. We have MA1 sending UDP traffic to MA2. MA2 will receive UDP packet and compute jitter. This is clearly an active measurement task for MA1. What is unclear for me is how to define MA2 tasks. Is it just one active task consisting in receiving packets from MA1 and computing jitter, or two tasks: - One active task consisting in receiving the active traffic generated by MA1, - One passive task consisting in measuring jitter for the udp flow. It is passive according to the definition since MA2 does not generate the observed flow. BR, Marc. On Thu, 29 May 2014 15:36:28 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote > On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 04:24:01PM +0300, marc. ibrahim wrote: > > According to the current Passive Measurement Method definition, an MA observing an > > active traffic measurement sent to it is performing a passive task. But in the same time > > it is an active task according the active definition. > > > > As I said in my previous mail, the definitions should not be relative to a single MA. > > > > I believe, for LMAP the definitions are good enough. In particular for > a passive/active measurement _task_ since tasks are executed by MAs. > It seems you want to separate out passive/active measurement _method_, > right? So what is the concrete proposal? > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > lmap mailing list > lmap@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap -- Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org) From nobody Sun Jun 1 12:04:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F081A6F66 for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 09:59:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rlh-SYuxByJg for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 09:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailrelay.usj.edu.lb (mailrelay.usj.edu.lb [193.227.187.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62B801A018C for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 09:59:44 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1401383002-05fac105a224ddc0001-e7AMy4 Received: from Citrus.usj.edu.lb (rectorat2.usj.edu.lb [193.227.187.140]) by mailrelay.usj.edu.lb with ESMTP id BlupDqCrwanwOAm6; Thu, 29 May 2014 20:03:22 +0300 (EEST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: marc.ibrahim@usj.edu.lb X-Barracuda-Apparent-Source-IP: 193.227.187.140 Received: from usj.edu.lb (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by Citrus.usj.edu.lb (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4TGxIRk031873; Thu, 29 May 2014 19:59:26 +0300 From: "marc.ibrahim" To: KEN KO , "STARK, BARBARA H" , Nalini Elkins , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Vero Zheng Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 19:59:18 +0300 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [lmap] [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt Message-Id: <20140529164842.M20408@usj.edu.lb> In-Reply-To: References: <2EEA459CD95CCB4988BFAFC0F2287B5C5C8441BF@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> <20140529121607.GA82518@elstar.local> <1401366760.51380.YahooMailNeo@web125104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D70E@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <1401367762.8149.YahooMailNeo@web125105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D765@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529130345.M94452@mail.usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D987@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> X-Mailer: OpenWebMail 2.53 X-OriginatingIP: 37.209.253.165 (marc.ibrahim) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Barracuda-Connect: rectorat2.usj.edu.lb[193.227.187.140] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1401383002 X-Barracuda-URL: http://mailrelay.usj.edu.lb:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at usj.edu.lb X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.6215 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/o0EzyMXkw65pTlt9H_zM0ouNCk4 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:04:47 -0700 Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" , "lmap@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 16:59:47 -0000 On Thu, 29 May 2014 16:43:54 +0000, KEN KO wrote > I have always viewed Measurement Method/Task as independent from the viewpoint > of a specific MA - holistic, if you will. I would support any necessary > terminology that clarifies that definition. > > Even if we all accept the above interpretation, I don't think we need new > terms in lmap. The 'initiating' MA's operational role should be fully defined > by the configuration and scheduling of a Measurement Task. Any other MAs roles > are communicated to them by the initiating MA, either in the form of messages > (eg, http GET) or something more specific to the Measurement Method - again, > fully defined via the configuration of the Task. Do we really need something new? I agree with this view. I tend to say that the task transcends individual MA. In a simple A-B ping example, it is a single task initiated by A that is executing an active task that has been instructed by the controller, while B is just "participating" in the task. I don't see that we can we talk about a task being executed by B. Is replying to a ping a full task that can be instructed and scheduled by the controller? I don't see that. BR, Marc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of STARK, BARBARA > > H > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:14 PM > > To: marc.ibrahim; Nalini Elkins; Juergen Schoenwaelder; Vero Zheng > > Cc: ippm@ietf.org; lmap@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt > > > > > I think the confusion comes from whether or not to consider individual MA. > > > For a single MA, measuring existing traffic is passive relatively to > > > this given MA. > > > But if this traffic was sent from another MA, then the whole method is > > > active since somebody has injected traffic. > > > > > > I think the definitions of active and passive methods are not relative > > > to an MA but to all MAs/MPs involved each measurement. If this is the > > > case, "Receiving" is not really different from "generating" since an > > > MA will receive and measure what has been generated. > > > > I'm not sure if it's confusion so much as it is the term ippm needs vs. the term > > lmap needs. Lmap looks at the world from the perspective of the MA, and > > from the perspective of the operation systems. Ippm looks at the world from > > the perspective of metrics (and what needs to happen to generate the > > metrics). > > > > Lmap needs terms that describe (generally and as a specific instantiation of > > the general term) what an MA does to accomplish its role in the term that > > ippm needs. > > It sounds like Ippm needs a term to describe holistically what is involved in > > generation of a particular metric. > > > > Using the same term (Measurement Method or its Measurement Task > > instantiation) as both the MA functional role and as the holistic metric > > generation method (task) is problematic. These need to be distinct terms. > > > > In the context of the ippm registry, we really need registry entries to provide > > specifics for configuring each MA role that is part of the holistic system > > needed for the metric. > > > > So if Measurement Method / Task describe the holistic technique, then lmap > > needs new terms. If Measurement Method / Task describe an MA's specific > > role, then ippm needs new terms for the holistic technique (and holistic > > instantiations of that technique). > > Barbara > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ippm mailing list > > ippm@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > _______________________________________________ > lmap mailing list > lmap@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap -- Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org) From nobody Sun Jun 1 12:04:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2491A0663; Thu, 29 May 2014 15:06:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZFBJC-IA8nWK; Thu, 29 May 2014 15:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-red.research.att.com (mail-red.research.att.com [204.178.8.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABCB1A023E; Thu, 29 May 2014 15:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (H-135-207-255-15.research.att.com [135.207.255.15]) by mail-red.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F9E4554B04; Thu, 29 May 2014 18:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com (unknown [135.207.255.243]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D369E2891; Thu, 29 May 2014 18:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NJFPSRVEXG8.research.att.com ([fe80::cdea:b3f6:3efa:1841]) by njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com ([fe80::cdea:b3f6:3efa:1841%13]) with mapi; Thu, 29 May 2014 18:06:26 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: KEN KO , "STARK, BARBARA H" , marc.ibrahim , Nalini Elkins , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Vero Zheng , "trevor.burbridge@bt.com" , "philip.eardley@bt.com" Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 18:06:25 -0400 Thread-Topic: [ippm] [lmap] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHPe19m4ogsNcYgEECVMd9hDcgkN5tYIWOA//+zJkCAAD4IFw== Message-ID: <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C80178E0CD93@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> References: <2EEA459CD95CCB4988BFAFC0F2287B5C5C8441BF@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> <20140529121607.GA82518@elstar.local> <1401366760.51380.YahooMailNeo@web125104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D70E@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <1401367762.8149.YahooMailNeo@web125105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D765@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529130345.M94452@mail.usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D987@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529164842.M20408@usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DA2B@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/gRKiPS2oMcuDgeXMwSidrrdYlYI X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:04:47 -0700 Cc: "lmap@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 22:06:32 -0000 Long thread today... I think it ended-up in a productive place, a logical examination of a realistic scenario and whether the framework and (more importantly) the Information Model have the flexibility to instantiate it=20 ( A - C - B hosts observing or performing ICMP echo req/replies). It's a similar concept to one we examined in IPPM and wrote about:=20 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5644 The key factor in determining the type of measurement in this RFC was the a priori knowledge of the packet (or stream) from the source. Packet loss could be measured at mid-point "C"(and subsequent points) because the measurement system knew when packets were sent from "A" could distinguish between different packets of the same stream, and knew=20 how long to wait for them.=20 Once we are satisfied that the Information Model allows the needed flexibil= ity for control, it would be good to take another step: The Information Model depends on the Performance Metrics Registry, which we have split into active and passive sub-registries. If the observations you want to make at mid-point "C" can be supported with a metric from the passive registry, that's input to the measurement categorization. If not, try the active regi= stry. If the active and/or passive registries support some important scenarios,=20 then we've come a long way. regards, Al ________________________________________ From: ippm [ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of KEN KO [KEN.KO@adtran.com] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 2:15 PM To: STARK, BARBARA H; marc.ibrahim; Nalini Elkins; Juergen Schoenwaelder; V= ero Zheng; trevor.burbridge@bt.com; philip.eardley@bt.com Cc: ippm@ietf.org; lmap@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt Barbara, I agree with most of what you are saying. Measurement Methods can be complex and can create different roles for diffe= rent MAs, and it is very possible for each MA to be configured only with it= s own role. There may be Methods for which MA A could participate with MAs = B and C without a priori knowledge of their roles, and get completely diffe= rent yet equally proper responses from each of them. I hadn't considered th= is and it contradicts my earlier comment (which I rescind) about the initia= ting MA having all information relevant to a Task. Having said all that, I still don't see the need for a new term beyond the = language we have already used - that is, each MA's role in executing a Task= . While we're at it, we might want to consider the above scenario with regard= to the draft Information Model. Can we currently configure a Task as being= triggered by something other than a Schedule - in response to an external = stimulus like a message from a remote MA? I think we can: - One or more ma-task-options objects within ma-task-obj specifies the non-= Schedule conditions under which the Task is initiated. Unless Schedule-base= d initiation is also desired, the Measurement Task Configuration would not = be referenced in a local Schedule. However, I don't see this addressed explicitly in either the framework or t= he information model, and if this behavior is in scope I think it needs lan= guage for clarity. The other area you touch on (unilateral exceptions where, for instance, a M= A does not respond to MAs outside a configured address range) seems equally= valid, and I'm more open to a new term to describe it. Does "exceptions" = fit the bill? Ken > -----Original Message----- > From: STARK, BARBARA H [mailto:bs7652@att.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:20 PM > To: marc.ibrahim; KEN KO; Nalini Elkins; Juergen Schoenwaelder; Vero Zhen= g > Cc: lmap@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [lmap] [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt > > > In a simple A-B ping example, it is a single task initiated by A that > > is executing an active task that has been instructed by the > > controller, while B is just "participating" > > in the task. I don't see that we can we talk about a task being execute= d by > B. > > Is replying to a ping a full task that can be instructed and scheduled > > by the controller? I don't see that. > > I think it would be possible to schedule B to only respond to pings at ce= rtain > times of day. Responding to ping is something that can be enabled/disable= d. > In which case it can be enabled and disabled according to a schedule. The > enabling/disabling of B's ability to respond to pings can be completely a= nd > totally distinct from any schedules that involve B initiating ping -- the= y are 2 > distinct roles. Configuration of these roles is also distinct (responding= may not > require any configuration other than the schedule, or it could be configu= red > to only respond to pings from certain IP addresses). It may even be that = an > MA only has the ability to initiate ping and never respond, or vice versa= . > > I very much believe that from the MA perspective (lmap), it is critical t= hat we > be able to talk about the MA's role in a holistic technique. I also belie= ve that > the MA can have a passive role (does not generate measurement traffic) or > an active role (generates measurement traffic) independent of how ippm > may choose to characterize the holistic technique. > Barbara _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm= From nobody Sun Jun 1 12:04:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EFAD1A031B; Thu, 29 May 2014 20:36:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.27 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.27 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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aXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE25D9F2081SZXEMA510MBXchi_-- From nobody Sun Jun 1 12:04:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7B71A08A3; Fri, 30 May 2014 00:36:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.651 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_52=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3LKkSTweQ5m7; Fri, 30 May 2014 00:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate 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Nalini Elkins , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Vero Zheng , "trevor.burbridge@bt.com" , "philip.eardley@bt.com" Thread-Topic: [lmap] [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHPe2pIljOlG/4PhUicmp7JdEELWptX8OEAgADLAMA= Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 07:36:37 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C7F4DB3@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <2EEA459CD95CCB4988BFAFC0F2287B5C5C8441BF@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> <20140529121607.GA82518@elstar.local> <1401366760.51380.YahooMailNeo@web125104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D70E@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <1401367762.8149.YahooMailNeo@web125105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D765@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529130345.M94452@mail.usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D987@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529164842.M20408@usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DA2B@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DB82@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DB82@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/RKpnJfkfY7aQjWyWPYJ_plGx8HU X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:04:47 -0700 Cc: "lmap@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 07:36:54 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of STARK, BARBARA H > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 12:26 AM > To: KEN KO; marc.ibrahim; Nalini Elkins; Juergen Schoenwaelder; Vero Zhen= g; > trevor.burbridge@bt.com; philip.eardley@bt.com > Cc: ippm@ietf.org; lmap@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [lmap] [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt >=20 > > Measurement Methods can be complex and can create different roles for > > different MAs, and it is very possible for each MA to be configured > > only with its own role. There may be Methods for which MA A could > > participate with MAs B and C without a priori knowledge of their > > roles, and get completely different yet equally proper responses from > > each of them. I hadn't considered this and it contradicts my earlier > > comment (which I rescind) about the initiating MA having all informatio= n > relevant to a Task. > > > > Having said all that, I still don't see the need for a new term beyond > > the language we have already used - that is, each MA's role in executin= g a > Task. >=20 > I'm becoming ever more strongly convinced that either ippm or lmap needs = a > new term -- I don't care which. But my reading of framework and the > information model is that what lmap is calling a Measurement Method and > Measurement Task is related to the specific role the MA plays in the holi= stic > technique. The MA absolutely does not need to know what other roles do or > how they are configured. It doesn't care what they do. It only knows what= it > has to do. I think this is also important to understand in the design of = the > registry -- if there is some metric in the registry that requires proper > configuration of multiple roles, the registry needs to be able to express= what > the proper configuration is for each distinct role. As a compromise (sinc= e > many seem to want Measurement Method to be the holistic technique) > maybe we should use Measurement Method for the holistic technique (and > ippm can define that, because it's not really central to lmap), Measureme= nt > Method Role for the role of the Meas urement Method that is implemented > on a MA, and Measurement Task is an instantiation of a Measurement > Method Role (which means a Task is *not* an instantiation of the > Measurement Method -- which assumes ippm doesn't need a term for an > instantiation of the holistic technique). Then lmap can have a Measuremen= t > Method Active Role that generates measurement traffic and may measure > parameters, and a Measurement Method Passive Role that does not > generate traffic and measures parameters. Ippm can define if there're suc= h > things as Active or Passive Measurement Methods. In lmap, we really only > need to care about whether the role is active or passive, and not how the > holistic technique is characterized. >=20 Hi Barbara. Doesn't become too complicated? What is the difference between the Measurem= ent Method Role and Measurement Task and why do we need the two distinct te= rms? Maybe it would help if you can provide a definition of Measurement Met= hod Role because I frankly cannot compile ' Measurement Task is an instanti= ation of a Measurement Method Role', in other words why do we need a generi= c term and an instantiation?=20 Thanks and Regards, Dan (speaking as contributor) From nobody Sun Jun 1 12:04:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC9211A086C; Fri, 30 May 2014 03:25:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.029 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.029 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rc2gvHf4dA03; Fri, 30 May 2014 03:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.176.64.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A5FB1A0851; Fri, 30 May 2014 03:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.20.11]) by rmmx-oa_allagent02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee253885c56bd3-69bd3; Fri, 30 May 2014 18:24:22 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee253885c56bd3-69bd3 Received: from cmccPC (unknown[10.2.43.246]) by rmsmtp-oa_rmapp01-12001 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee153885c549e0-abd35; Fri, 30 May 2014 18:24:22 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee153885c549e0-abd35 From: =?utf-8?B?6YKT54G16I6JL0xpbmdsaSBEZW5n?= To: "'MORTON, ALFRED C \(AL\)'" , "'KEN KO'" , "'STARK, BARBARA H'" , "'marc.ibrahim'" , "'Nalini Elkins'" , "'Juergen Schoenwaelder'" , "'Vero Zheng'" , , References: <2EEA459CD95CCB4988BFAFC0F2287B5C5C8441BF@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> <20140529121607.GA82518@elstar.local> <1401366760.51380.YahooMailNeo@web125104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D70E@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <1401367762.8149.YahooMailNeo@web125105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D765@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529130345.M94452@mail.usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D987@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529164842.M20408@usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DA2B@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com>, <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C80178E0CD93@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C80178E0CD93@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 18:24:50 +0800 Message-ID: <017a01cf7bf1$644daa60$2ce8ff20$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AQHPe19m4ogsNcYgEECVMd9hDcgkN5tYIWOA//+zJkCAAD4IF4AAvPUg Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/OqO5XlmNpCYDmIvkwOlYIygj2Wg X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:04:48 -0700 Cc: ippm@ietf.org, lmap@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 10:25:06 -0000 Hi Al, I agree with you on all your points, except the use of the word = "observation" for passive measurement. More inline. > The key factor in determining the type of measurement in this RFC was = the > a priori knowledge of the packet (or stream) from the source. [=E9=82=93=E7=81=B5=E8=8E=89/Lingli Deng] Support. From the perspective = of an MP performing a passive task, it has to do the measurement without = any reliance on the prior knowledge from the source about the targeted = traffic (when to expect it, how long and how large it would be, etc.). = While in contrast, there is an active traffic generator in any active = measurement task acting as the source, to ensure the participating MPs = measures metrics for targeted traffic with known characteristics.=20 > Packet loss could be measured at mid-point "C"(and subsequent = points) > because the measurement system knew when packets were sent from "A" > could distinguish between different packets of the same stream, and = knew > how long to wait for them. [=E9=82=93=E7=81=B5=E8=8E=89/Lingli Deng] There are also passive = measurement methods, which can measure packet loss at mid-point by doing = a little more than pure observation. Examples include = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-metrics-04 and = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework= -01 (where the IP header is being marked/appended by an upstream MP to = coordinate with the downstream MP for measurement on existing traffic = and no traffic is injected for the purpose of measurement therefore no = prior knowledge other than the appended/markded information piggybacked = to the targeted traffic can be assumed for any participating MP). >=20 > Once we are satisfied that the Information Model allows the needed = flexibility > for control, it would be good to take another step: The Information = Model > depends on the Performance Metrics Registry, which we have split into > active and passive sub-registries. If the observations you want to = make at > mid-point "C" can be supported with a metric from the passive = registry, > that's input to the measurement categorization. If not, try the active = registry. > If the active and/or passive registries support some important = scenarios, > then we've come a long way. [=E9=82=93=E7=81=B5=E8=8E=89/Lingli Deng] I would like it more if the = word "observation" is replaced by "measurement". It gives two implications which I think Vero and Nalini wanted to avoid = by raising the discussion in the first place. 1, It gives one the impression that a passive measurement task is always = performed by an individual MP and does not need any coordination from = outside.=20 2, An MP doing passive measurement is not supposed to "touch" the = traffic, but only "observes" them, in which case packet loss can hardly = be measured. > Given the fact that "passive measurement" has a lot of possibilities = more than pure observation, I echo Vero and Nalini that one should cease = using "observation" as an synonym for passive measurement. Lingli From nobody Sun Jun 1 12:05:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C0D1A0901; Fri, 30 May 2014 07:16:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.851 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1bqoG7bGID_3; Fri, 30 May 2014 07:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com [209.65.160.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DA861A08F6; Fri, 30 May 2014 07:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.229.23] (EHLO alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-7.2.1-0) with ESMTP id bc298835.2ae60166e940.5719177.00-2458.15941211.nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Fri, 30 May 2014 14:16:43 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 538892cb156d0eb2-5ee07d1a32e67ac7ee6e9c451d9c28adfa271669 Received: from unknown [144.160.229.23] (EHLO alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-7.2.1-0) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id 76298835.0.5717972.00-1988.15937742.nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Fri, 30 May 2014 14:15:04 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 53889268386a533f-11bcf55205bd2fe56d334e6b08fdff87557ace41 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4UEF2Ss024083; Fri, 30 May 2014 10:15:02 -0400 Received: from alpi132.aldc.att.com (alpi132.aldc.att.com [130.8.217.2]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4UEEw2u024060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 30 May 2014 10:14:59 -0400 Received: from GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com (GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.itservices.sbc.com [130.8.218.154]) by alpi132.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Fri, 30 May 2014 14:14:40 GMT Received: from GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.36.69]) by GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.218.154]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 30 May 2014 10:14:39 -0400 From: "STARK, BARBARA H" To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , KEN KO , "marc.ibrahim" , Nalini Elkins , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Vero Zheng , "trevor.burbridge@bt.com" , "philip.eardley@bt.com" Thread-Topic: [lmap] [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHPe19g7JlyMC2zj0SiwX4AAU19WZtXynkggABV6gD//99KoIABAGmAgAALQRA= Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 14:14:38 +0000 Message-ID: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DF53@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> References: <2EEA459CD95CCB4988BFAFC0F2287B5C5C8441BF@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> <20140529121607.GA82518@elstar.local> <1401366760.51380.YahooMailNeo@web125104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D70E@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <1401367762.8149.YahooMailNeo@web125105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D765@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529130345.M94452@mail.usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D987@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529164842.M20408@usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DA2B@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DB82@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C7F4DB3@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C7F4DB3@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.61.166.174] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=Kpj6LxqN c=1 sm=1 a=VXHOiMMwGAwA+y4G3/O+aw==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=in1mFPvdBZUA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=uXQnFqASuNsA:10 a=BLc] X-AnalysisOut: [eEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32R] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=XwYO4xUe1mojkYmAmnEA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10] X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2014051901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.23] Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/MmD4S9GPSSsqPatLvhvWQQAjAd4 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:04:48 -0700 Cc: "lmap@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 14:16:49 -0000 > Doesn't become too complicated? What is the difference between the > Measurement Method Role and Measurement Task and why do we need > the two distinct terms? Maybe it would help if you can provide a definiti= on of > Measurement Method Role because I frankly cannot compile ' Measurement > Task is an instantiation of a Measurement Method Role', in other words wh= y > do we need a generic term and an instantiation? The information model says: The Measurement Task Configuration will include ... a registry entry [I-D....-ippm-...] that defines the Measurement Task. The MA itself will resolve the registry entry to a local executable program. In addition the Measurement Task is specialised through a set of configuration Options. The nature and number of these Options will depend upon the Measurement Task and will be defined in the Measurement Task Registry. So the information-model makes the Measurement Task an instantiation of a l= ocal executable program. But how does the Controller learn about what regis= try entries the MA is capable of resolving to local executable programs? Th= at is, how does the Controller know what local executable programs exist on= the MA? I had thought this would be part of the capabilities that get repo= rted to the Controller by the MA. Bu the ma-capability object has some dist= inct other undefined measurement-id urn and doesn't provide the Controller = with any list of registry entries that the MA is capable of resolving. Hope= fully, this is just something that needs to be fixed in the information-mod= el, and not an intentional lack of relationship between ma-capability and m= a-task (or ma-task-registry).=20 Anyway, information-model says (wrt capability reporting) that "Capabilitie= s include ... the set of Measurement Tasks that are actually installed or a= vailable on the MA." This, to me, is a problematic statement. Now, not only= is the term Measurement Task being used to describe an instantiation of a = local executable program with a specific set of values for input parameters= (ma-task-options<0..*>) and perhaps a particular cycle id (ma-task-cycle-i= d) with a pointer to the local executable program (ma-task-registry), the t= erm is also being used as synonymous with the local executable program.=20 I do not think that "Measurement Task" should be used as another name for t= he local executable program. I would like to see this fixed. It would also = appear that the ma-capability object is supposed to be the object that prov= ides the information regarding these local executable programs that are ins= talled/available on the MA. But the word "capabilities" is also said to inc= lude interface details. So "local executable programs" is a subset of "capa= bilities" (which means "capabilities" is also not an appropriate word to us= e to just mean "local executable programs").=20 So do these "local executable programs" need a better name, so we aren't te= mpted to call them "Measurement Task"? Or maybe we can just call them "Loca= l Executable Programs" and define them as functionality in a MA that allows= the MA to perform a specific role of a Measurement Method. And Measurement= Task is an instantiation of a Local Executable Program. Because Measuremen= t Task is definitely not an instantiation of the holistic Measurement Metho= d. The ping initiator Local Executable Program can be completely distinct f= rom the ping responder Local Executable Program. And it often is. Barbara From nobody Sun Jun 1 12:05:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 720C71A096E; Fri, 30 May 2014 08:42:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qWHtoP1ef5Du; Fri, 30 May 2014 08:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 163CB1A0A23; Fri, 30 May 2014 08:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A86FBE; Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id Tib39vxPWwlg; Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0440420017; Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2tg9ibGK4ffa; Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (shubcas03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.153]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (not verified)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2457320013; Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de ([fe80::c1f:c30f:99ac:df0c]) by SHUBCAS05.jacobs.jacobs-university.de ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0181.006; Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:18 +0200 From: "Bajpai, Vaibhav" To: "STARK, BARBARA H" Thread-Topic: [lmap] [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHPe4SyEJR6w5z5NkWIeISBck/YzZtYmzaAgABvNACAABh9gA== Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 15:42:18 +0000 Message-ID: <83C976BD-9ADB-45D8-BAF4-7C4B01856C97@jacobs-university.de> References: <2EEA459CD95CCB4988BFAFC0F2287B5C5C8441BF@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> <20140529121607.GA82518@elstar.local> <1401366760.51380.YahooMailNeo@web125104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D70E@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <1401367762.8149.YahooMailNeo@web125105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D765@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529130345.M94452@mail.usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043D987@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140529164842.M20408@usj.edu.lb> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DA2B@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DB82@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C7F4DB3@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DF53@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043DF53@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.50.203.30] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EA1A364C-784D-48E0-8D5E-15095C6B22D5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/Y-cIMH7E7cqo6KgB7et_paHkfvQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:04:48 -0700 Cc: "marc.ibrahim" , "lmap@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" , Dan Romascanu Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 15:42:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EA1A364C-784D-48E0-8D5E-15095C6B22D5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 30 May 2014, at 16:14, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: >> Doesn't become too complicated? What is the difference between the >> Measurement Method Role and Measurement Task and why do we need >> the two distinct terms? Maybe it would help if you can provide a = definition of >> Measurement Method Role because I frankly cannot compile ' = Measurement >> Task is an instantiation of a Measurement Method Role', in other = words why >> do we need a generic term and an instantiation? >=20 > The information model says: > The Measurement Task Configuration will include ... a registry > entry [I-D....-ippm-...] that defines the Measurement > Task. The MA itself will resolve the registry entry to a local > executable program. In addition the Measurement Task is specialised > through a set of configuration Options. The nature and number of > these Options will depend upon the Measurement Task and will be > defined in the Measurement Task Registry. The framework document [1] makes the measurement method refer to the = IPPM metrics registries. The information model (IM) [2] on the other hand, makes the measurement = task refer to the=20 IPPM metrics registries. If we really want to use both Measurement = Method and Measurement Task=20 terminologies, perhaps we need to update the IM to adhere better to the = framework document: object { string ma-method-name; urn ma-method-registry; ma-task-obj ma-task-obj<0..*>; } ma-method-obj;=20 object { string ma-task-name; string ma-task-options<0..*>; [string ma-task-cycle-id;] } ma-task-obj;=20 > So the information-model makes the Measurement Task an instantiation = of a local executable program. But how does the Controller learn about = what registry entries the MA is capable of resolving to local executable = programs? That is, how does the Controller know what local executable = programs exist on the MA? I had thought this would be part of the = capabilities that get reported to the Controller by the MA. Bu the = ma-capability object has some distinct other undefined measurement-id = urn and doesn't provide the Controller with any list of registry entries = that the MA is capable of resolving. Hopefully, this is just something = that needs to be fixed in the information-model, and not an intentional = lack of relationship between ma-capability and ma-task (or = ma-task-registry).=20 I also think so: object { urn ma-measurement-id; [string ma-measurement-version;] ma-task-obj ma-task-obj<0..*>; } ma-capability-obj; The ma-tasks<0...*> objects sent in the instruction object will now be = subset of the the ma-tasks<0=85*> objects sent by the MA. > Anyway, information-model says (wrt capability reporting) that = "Capabilities include ... the set of Measurement Tasks that are actually = installed or available on the MA." This, to me, is a problematic = statement. Now, not only is the term Measurement Task being used to = describe an instantiation of a local executable program with a specific = set of values for input parameters (ma-task-options<0..*>) and perhaps a = particular cycle id (ma-task-cycle-id) with a pointer to the local = executable program (ma-task-registry), the term is also being used as = synonymous with the local executable program.=20 >=20 > I do not think that "Measurement Task" should be used as another name = for the local executable program. I would like to see this fixed. It = would also appear that the ma-capability object is supposed to be the = object that provides the information regarding these local executable = programs that are installed/available on the MA. But the word = "capabilities" is also said to include interface details. So "local = executable programs" is a subset of "capabilities" (which means = "capabilities" is also not an appropriate word to use to just mean = "local executable programs").=20 >=20 > So do these "local executable programs" need a better name, so we = aren't tempted to call them "Measurement Task"? Or maybe we can just = call them "Local Executable Programs=94 A locally executable program can be any program (for e.g. ls) within the = MA, no?=20 Shouldn=92t we restrict the terminology to programs that do = measurements? > and define them as functionality in a MA that allows the MA to perform = a specific role of a Measurement Method. And Measurement Task is an = instantiation of a Local Executable Program. Because Measurement Task is = definitely not an instantiation of the holistic Measurement Method. The = ping initiator Local Executable Program can be completely distinct from = the ping responder Local Executable Program. And it often is. > Barbara [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05 [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lmap-information-model-00 Best, Vaibhav ----------------------------------------------------- Vaibhav Bajpai Research I, Room 86 Computer Networks and Distributed Systems (CNDS) Lab School of Engineering and Sciences Jacobs University Bremen, Germany www.vaibhavbajpai.com --Apple-Mail=_EA1A364C-784D-48E0-8D5E-15095C6B22D5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTiKbZAAoJEHR3XKwTWKOZOcMIAJYFVPUNvVfxBwU8gllyl0Ru z6VHTOjD1XHDCN3f62r68JeyU9HqG9VK+ETpm2SivP+UQLj6mQ5Oo1588rAV857h itLZxicv1mN15QfkfFep+k5r+FNlvv5WxaAOA3LLWVjOAtzC9vhinGsqMgGL+0r/ 8T2XC5+1pZX0gac9qpKFi5yg1pUQ84irP/U2EKDva9b2HaOqs0DLkDuRRWR/MONW agzzG6ArorxMAxXE02k8VFC2Gh124w9CPTaHa4+1Yac4Ckt0BpGxlQTGdLf8LKLY g944MmHC1YDOykuKeulmAfILKUAbbSGI21I0Rh9FMSWM1awLIbTpr+SvP3qalNY= =XqN/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_EA1A364C-784D-48E0-8D5E-15095C6B22D5-- From nobody Sun Jun 1 12:05:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 377AF1A007D; Sat, 31 May 2014 12:10:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uBdwzvpFWidN; Sat, 31 May 2014 12:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ihemail3.lucent.com (ihemail3.lucent.com [135.245.0.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCFD51A0063; Sat, 31 May 2014 12:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-5-2-65.lucent.com [135.5.2.65]) by ihemail3.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id s4VJAL68027806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 31 May 2014 14:10:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from US70TWXCHHUB03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70twxchhub03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.35]) by us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s4VJAKel021424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 31 May 2014 15:10:21 -0400 Received: from US70UWXCHMBA02.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.8.107]) by US70TWXCHHUB03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.5.2.35]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Sat, 31 May 2014 15:10:20 -0400 From: "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "STARK, BARBARA H" Thread-Topic: [lmap] UDP Echo example Thread-Index: AQHPfQKkc2v75TjvIE66yFOkP96V4JtbDKCw Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 19:10:19 +0000 Message-ID: <9966516C6EB5FC4381E05BF80AA55F7734EBC8BF@US70UWXCHMBA02.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6113043E070@GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com> <20140530225620.GA86358@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20140530225620.GA86358@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.5.27.18] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/HD7kcI1M0Uocwr61dqSksFyOtA4 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:04:48 -0700 Cc: "lmap@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] UDP Echo example X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 19:10:35 -0000 Juergen, Wouldn't the selected interface for the UDP test instance be part of the op= tions for the task. The options have the "parameters" for the test which is= specific for each test, right? As for a MA telling the controller its capabilities - wouldn't it be part o= f the ma-interface-obj? BR, Tim -----Original Message----- From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]=20 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:56 PM To: STARK, BARBARA H Cc: ippm@ietf.org; lmap@ietf.org Subject: Re: [lmap] UDP Echo example On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 05:20:05PM +0000, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: >=20 > If we look at the TR-069 data model in [TR-143], we see that MA1's UDP Ec= ho server functionality has input parameters of (1) a port to listen on and= (2) a source IP address (MA1 will only respond to UDP packets from this so= urce IP address). In an LMAP world, I think these would be the information-= model ma-task-options<0..*>. There is also an input of the network interfac= e to listen on. [I see that while information-model lets the MA tell the Co= ntroller what its interfaces are, there's no current linkage to allow an in= terface to be specified for a ma-task-obj. I think this is probably just an= oversight and needs to be added.]=20 The interface is just another task option. /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jun 2 08:56:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47EB51A0340 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 08:56:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yEiBkVUrOCZm for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 08:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trammell.ch (trammell1.nine.ch [5.148.172.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC5B1A0241 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 08:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:26:9c2::2] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:26:9c2::2]) by trammell.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D1EF1A02DC; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 17:56:29 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1FC30DFD-4B0A-4F0E-BF04-AFF3AEF7CEE0"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) From: Brian Trammell In-Reply-To: <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C8017992C829@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 17:56:28 +0200 Message-Id: References: <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C8017992C829@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> To: Al Morton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/UvS-LxfUH7xo_d0b9UVKLQ3_tT0 Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: [ippm] Second WGLC on draft-ippm-lmap-path was Re: Revised: draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-03 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 15:56:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1FC30DFD-4B0A-4F0E-BF04-AFF3AEF7CEE0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hi Al, all, Thanks for the updated draft! The changes appear to be extensive enough that a second WGLC is = warranted; please provide any additional comments (or just a statement = that you've read the new doc and it's OK) by Friday, June 13. Thanks, Brian (as chair) On 29 May 2014, at 21:50, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) = wrote: > Hi IPPM, and Lingli, Charles, and Dan in particular: >=20 > Thanks for providing comments on this draft during WGLC. > A version which hopefully addresses all your comments is here: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-03 >=20 > It should be fairly easy to find where your comments were=20 > addressed, using the diff file: > http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-03.txt >=20 > Some changes are fairly extensive, to address Charles' > request for rules for example. The co-authors had some fun with=20 > that aspect. >=20 > I remember one specific question from Charles, "what is [SK]?" > it's just a very tight reference to an informative white paper: >=20 > [SK] Crawford, Sam., "Test Methodology White Paper", SamKnows > Whitebox Briefing Note > http://www.samknows.com/broadband/index.php, July 2011. >=20 > regards, > Al (for the co-authors) >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail=_1FC30DFD-4B0A-4F0E-BF04-AFF3AEF7CEE0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTjJ6sAAoJENt3nsOmbNJcIWQH/AyPnh5KqvLRkjIn7zNVFhXF yLcoDZF1oOFBvF/ZXaWQESGuk1N7mguOol5SWONQjILlXrT36BXhe0iJqda4f0jW xOAyLYSBFQZ4/PRbBE6JqzkKCcLJv3NSYw2IeEUg8X9ix9V+2ky8gIIVGAX/09ho W1L20ciVXF8cu4CWxNvfvuEhIkE8SWoDzww7PSK2NzM7B35NxG875REcdefwQqSa 6TdGG309F4/tBQ+olMarDACqaWJ+hlUGgU2k0IXyi+sXlJwi5S9ouNKUQFEp7cRp mWF22ncVj+T4yhs9ruPIddyPZVZEt7Po6WCJQyOY+cZRdunMcZ4nan/XGSIL9gk= =liGI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_1FC30DFD-4B0A-4F0E-BF04-AFF3AEF7CEE0-- From nobody Mon Jun 2 09:08:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6174C1A0256 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 09:08:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3MxbL9_fCEk7 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 09:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trammell.ch (trammell1.nine.ch [5.148.172.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 234E41A024F for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 09:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:26:9c2::2] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:26:9c2::2]) by trammell.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5FFF71A0151 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 18:07:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Brian Trammell Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EC8983A4-892D-4123-A70A-5B2875542500"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 18:07:18 +0200 References: <20140529194155.17884.67924.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: ippm@ietf.org Message-Id: <47EC9EAE-25A9-4E0F-B5F9-10593A4DDD0C@trammell.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/VvsKc-L1gPBWgrBsJfEKvPALxn4 Subject: [ippm] Call for Calls for Adoption was Fwd: Document Action: 'Advanced Stream and Sampling Framework for IPPM' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-ippm-2330-update-05.txt) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 16:08:02 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EC8983A4-892D-4123-A70A-5B2875542500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Greetings, IPPM, Thanks and congratulations to the authors on the approval of our first = draft from the "new" (March 2013) charter! As we're moving forward in our charter, it's time to consider adopting = new drafts. I've seen implicit requests for a call for adoption for the following = two drafts, which were not adopted in Orlando because we wanted to see = if 2330-update would change their scope significantly: draft-morton-ippm-2679-bis-04 draft-morton-ippm-2680-bis-02 We have at least one explicit request for a call for adoption: draft-hedin-ippm-type-p-monitor-03 If there are other documents which you would like to have considered for = adoption as IPPM WG items in the next round under the present charter, = please notify the chairs at ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org by Friday, June = 6th; we'll run the call for adoption after that. Thanks, cheers, Brian (as chair) Begin forwarded message: > From: The IESG > Subject: Document Action: 'Advanced Stream and Sampling Framework for = IPPM' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-ippm-2330-update-05.txt) > Date: 29 May 2014 21:41:55 GMT+2 > Resent-To: bill@wjcerveny.com, ietf@trammell.ch, > To: IETF-Announce > Cc: RFC Editor , ippm mailing list = , ippm chair >=20 > The IESG has approved the following document: > - 'Advanced Stream and Sampling Framework for IPPM' > (draft-ietf-ippm-2330-update-05.txt) as Informational RFC >=20 > This document is the product of the IP Performance Metrics Working = Group. >=20 > The IESG contact persons are Spencer Dawkins and Martin Stiemerling. >=20 > A URL of this Internet Draft is: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-update/ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Technical Summary >=20 > To obtain repeatable results in modern networks, test descriptions=20= > need an expanded stream parameter framework that also augments=20 > aspects specified as Type-P for test packets. This memo updates > the IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) Framework, RFC 2330, with=20 > advanced considerations for measurement methodology and testing. =20 > The existing framework mostly assumes deterministic connectivity,=20 > and that a single test stream will represent the characteristics of = the=20 > path when it is aggregated with other flows. Networks have evolved=20= > and test stream descriptions must evolve with them, otherwise=20 > unexpected network features may dominate the measured performance. =20= > This memo describes new stream parameters for both network=20 > characterization and support of application design using IPPM = metrics. >=20 > Working Group Summary >=20 > This draft was first introduced to the working group in October = 2012.=20 > Support for the draft was indicated at meetings with no dissent. >=20 > Document Quality >=20 > As an update to the IPPM Framework, this document adds=20 > new and updated considerations for stream parameters. >=20 > The document shepherd reviewed the document as a =93-02=94=20 > draft and reviewed the changes which constitute =93-03=94 and =93-04=94= . >=20 > As documented, other topics in the IPPM Framework which=20 > might be updated or augmented are deferred to future work. This=20 > includes the topics of passive and various forms of of hybrid=20 > active/passive measurements. >=20 > Personnel >=20 > The document shepherd was Bill Cerveny. The responsible=20 > area director is Spencer Dawkins. --Apple-Mail=_EC8983A4-892D-4123-A70A-5B2875542500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTjKE2AAoJENt3nsOmbNJc1vUIAJO1//6N5xwjPav0mWAIT0LK IGnSEXeeEQx5dJwpIaApl4mbdon5oKiEQeiyOtTheoOArJpvLzC5M2BAR25kkfbD CHDp6cR22/w6+jZUiI3ByXZdh1BcRWJe12QuN8/hEx9uO9mTI9r7tGwgcNR2fOmO J6/vDcGACMqmuLm2guMA/IRJWICs5YoUoK+39MbvVZOEdzAOqAHFmhGwWnT09sEY NhAzhKUXs+27zS2dcT6x8tRRyiLgMUbHTC4CSvd1qawFDqW8EiyuGbOh034MeaiS QI26vNSRXYlpbZIsSVXHTYPL0Cf7JkH5yT8NkjAB7aesvh/kInDMjbaFY+bOzSA= =N0dP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_EC8983A4-892D-4123-A70A-5B2875542500-- From nobody Wed Jun 4 01:59:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6BDF1A0132 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 01:59:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IyoS8M4usig5 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 01:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trammell.ch (trammell1.nine.ch [5.148.172.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C8D1A012D for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 01:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:10ec:2a49:8000::8] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:10ec:2a49:8000::8]) by trammell.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 689B61A0A3C for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 10:58:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Brian Trammell Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E5135FC2-5404-4487-92B8-7E17F6D34300"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 10:58:57 +0200 To: ippm@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/Ke1wKv2xDBmV8Q7-kkcHsXNTYYI Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 08:59:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E5135FC2-5404-4487-92B8-7E17F6D34300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings, all, Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 begins = today,=20 until Wednesday 18 June 2014. Please send comments to ippm@ietf.org, = including simple indications that you've reviewed the document and are = okay with sending it up to the IESG for publication. Thanks, cheers, Brian (as chair) --Apple-Mail=_E5135FC2-5404-4487-92B8-7E17F6D34300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTjt/RAAoJENt3nsOmbNJcGYoH+QE2BrI03BjnpBe6tRbyrKVJ Qm/cpCT1OHseVGf7cCxvLn0BONLVgH2HJdKvQieQRBZRjXFHxOdyibinY2nemnL/ 2J7d23NVZmYqcoq4I2x7lNawOyx9wjPNfvZfQt9d/vv2sRK/QdZ2bxQ8sKGYn+Fa AYxPngBdGgjyQj0JBJZAlR6/xg/sAF8uT/aOR8IUEfmG+JIZyjJ4bd++WTmxeAjh LkV1oYcn4Q+a6jvbix66ZnF/i1zGzM+3OWlAjKgOiE06HjuzvmDT+5AMk+nv14gv LM211Om/Jv4aPq5ecZ7RUfe0TBCYkxaOP0mw2bdQwV2iMrf66/HF+wa/kZZ1030= =MGzk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E5135FC2-5404-4487-92B8-7E17F6D34300-- From nobody Wed Jun 4 08:54:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C5A1A028D for ; 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Wed, 04 Jun 2014 08:54:25 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, QlRXLCDCoEkgd2FudGVkIHRvIGdpdmUgeW91IGEgaGVhZHMtdXAgdGhhdCB0aGUgdGVhbSB3aGljaCBoYXMgYmVlbiB3b3JraW5nIG9uIHRoZSBQYXNzaXZlIEZyYW1ld29yayBmb3IgSVBQTSAoZHJhZnQtemhlbmctaXBwbS1mcmFtZXdvcmstcGFzc2l2ZS0wMCkgd2lsbCBiZSBwb3N0aW5nIG91ciBkcmFmdCBvbiBKdW5lIDExdGguCgpXZSB3aWxsIGhhdmUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBhbmQgZGVmaW5pdGlvbiBvZiBtYW55IG9mIHRoZSB0ZXJtcyBpbnZvbHZlZCBpbiBQYXNzaXZlIE1vbml0b3JpbmcgZnJvbSB0aGUBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.188.663 References: , <2EEA459CD95CCB4988BFAFC0F2287B5C5C846CD2@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> Message-ID: <1401897265.73162.YahooMailNeo@web125106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 08:54:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Nalini Elkins To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" , "vero.zheng@huawei.com" , "gregimirsky@gmail.com" , "mach.chen@huawei.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1552829269-483949487-1401897265=:73162" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/iPHsJVrpnSfMQ88Q6LDhEpQha6M Cc: IPPM IETF , "lmap@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] [lmap] Follow-up on recent discussion about draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Nalini Elkins List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 15:54:34 -0000 --1552829269-483949487-1401897265=:73162 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BTW, =C2=A0I wanted to give you a heads-up that the team which has been wor= king on the Passive Framework for IPPM (draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-= 00) will be posting our draft on June 11th.=0A=0AWe will have discussion an= d definition of many of the terms involved in Passive Monitoring from the I= PPM point of view.=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks,=0A=0ANalini Elkins=0AInside Products,= Inc.=0A(831) 659-8360=0Awww.insidethestack.com=0A=0A=0A=0A________________= ________________=0A From: "philip.eardley@bt.com" = =0ATo: vero.zheng@huawei.com; gregimirsky@gmail.com; mach.chen@huawei.com = =0ACc: lmap@ietf.org =0ASent: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 8:37 AM=0ASubject: Re= : [lmap] Follow-up on recent discussion about draft-ietf-lmap-framework-05.= txt=0A =0A=0A=0A=C2=A0=0AIn the Intro, add to the paragraph about Active & = Passive Tasks:=0AThere may also be Measurement Tasks that are intermediate = between Passive and Active ones; consideration is outside the initial LMAP = work scope.=0AVero>> If we tweak the definitions carefully, we may don=E2= =80=99t need to exclude any measurement tasks outside scope.=0A=C2=A0=0A[ph= il] ok, let's shorten to "There may also be Measurement Tasks that are inte= rmediate between Passive and Active ones"=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A__________= _____________________________________=0Almap mailing list=0Almap@ietf.org= =0Ahttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap --1552829269-483949487-1401897265=:73162 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BTW,  I wanted t= o give you a heads-up that the team which has been working on the Passive F= ramework for IPPM (draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-00) will be posting o= ur draft on June 11th.

We will have disc= ussion and definition of many of the terms involved in Passive Monitoring f= rom the IPPM point of view.
 
Th= anks,

Nalini Elkins
Inside Products, Inc.
(8= 31) 659-8360
www.insidethestack.com

From: "philip.eardley= @bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: vero.zheng@huawei.com; gregimirsky@gmail.com; mach.che= n@huawei.com
Cc: lmap@= ietf.org
Sent: Wednes= day, June 4, 2014 8:37 AM
Subject= : Re: [lmap] Follow-up on recent discussion about draft-ietf-lma= p-framework-05.txt

=0A=0A
 
=0A=
=0A
=0A
In the Intro, add to the paragraph about Active & Passive Tasks:
=0A
There may also be Measurement Tasks t= hat are intermediate between Passive and Active ones; consideration is outs= ide the initial LMAP work scope.
=0A
Vero>> If we tweak the d= efinitions carefully, we may don=E2=80=99t need to exclude any measurement = tasks outside scope.
= =0A
=  
=0A
[phil] ok, let's short= en to "There may also=0A be Measurement Tasks that are intermediate between Pa= ssive and Active ones"
=0A
&n= bsp;
=0A
 
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

_______________________= ________________________
lmap mailing list
lmap@ietf.org
https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/lmap


--1552829269-483949487-1401897265=:73162-- From nobody Thu Jun 5 04:56:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0D001A0051; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 04:56:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VlWCLNvaqXkJ; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 04:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D2D31A0071; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 04:56:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.4.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140605115617.10563.27001.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 04:56:17 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/BeUfyEdcJaNV2JE8y-29LjIOKiQ Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 11:56:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : Network Performance Measurement for IPsec Authors : Kostas Pentikousis Yang Cui Emma Zhang Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2014-06-05 Abstract: The O/TWAMP security mechanism requires that both the client and server endpoints possess a shared secret. Since the currently- standardized O/TWAMP security mechanism only supports a pre-shared key mode, large scale deployment of O/TWAMP is hindered significantly. At the same time, recent trends point to wider IKEv2 deployment which, in turn, calls for mechanisms and methods that enable tunnel end-users, as well as operators, to measure one-way and two-way network performance in a standardized manner. This document discusses the use of keys derived from an IKEv2 SA as the shared key in O/TWAMP. If the shared key can be derived from the IKEv2 SA, O/ TWAMP can support certificate-based key exchange, which would allow for more operational flexibility and efficiency. The key derivation presented in this document can also facilitate automatic key management. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jun 5 05:02:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F71D1A0079; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 05:02:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y30LwZc5W1GN; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 05:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.eict.de (mx2.eict.de [212.91.241.168]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC561A0075; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 05:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mx2.eict.de (Postfix, from userid 481) id CC8C31FF66; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:01:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.eict.de (mx1 [172.16.6.1]) by mx2.eict.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612451FF60; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:01:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sbs2008.eict.local (sbs2008.intern.eict.de [192.168.2.11]) by mail.eict.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C6C137825F; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:01:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from SBS2008.eict.local ([fe80::2051:ef24:c7c9:f298]) by SBS2008.eict.local ([fe80::2051:ef24:c7c9:f298%13]) with mapi; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:01:51 +0200 From: Kostas Pentikousis To: "ippm@ietf.org" , "ipsec@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:01:50 +0200 Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03.txt Thread-Index: Ac+AtS63VifhV2+pTsOYd53wj3hkGAAAIhVw Message-ID: <0C7EDCF89AB9E2478B5D010026CFF4AEA10C4F1674@SBS2008.eict.local> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/dqIDcspKiVqFJHwuk0E-Y0s0Z20 Subject: [ippm] WG: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 12:02:07 -0000 RGVhciBhbGwsDQoNCldlIGhhdmUgdXBkYXRlZCB0aGUgZHJhZnQgb24gIk5ldHdvcmsgUGVyZm9y bWFuY2UgTWVhc3VyZW1lbnQgZm9yIElQc2VjIiAoc2VlIGJlbG93KS4gV2Ugd291bGQgZ3JlYXRs eSBhcHByZWNpYXRlIGNvbW1lbnRzIGZyb20gYm90aCBJUFBNIGFuZCBJUFNFQyBhcyB3ZSdyZSBo ZWFkaW5nIHRvIGZpbmFsaXppbmcgdGhpcyB3b3JrIGl0ZW0gaW4gSVBQTS4NCg0KQmVzdCByZWdh cmRzLA0KDQpLb3N0YXMNCg0KDQotLS0tLVVyc3Byw7xuZ2xpY2hlIE5hY2hyaWNodC0tLS0tDQpW b246IGludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOmludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRm Lm9yZ10gDQpHZXNlbmRldDogRG9ubmVyc3RhZywgNS4gSnVuaSAyMDE0IDEzOjU2DQpBbjogWWFu ZyBDdWk7IEVtbWEgWmhhbmc7IEVtbWEgWmhhbmc7IFlhbmcgQ3VpOyBLb3N0YXMgUGVudGlrb3Vz aXM7IEtvc3RhcyBQZW50aWtvdXNpcw0KQmV0cmVmZjogTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9u IGZvciBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWlwcG0taXBzZWMtMDMudHh0DQoNCg0KQSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBJ LUQsIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaXBwbS1pcHNlYy0wMy50eHQgaGFzIGJlZW4gc3VjY2Vzc2Z1bGx5IHN1 Ym1pdHRlZCBieSBLb3N0YXMgUGVudGlrb3VzaXMgYW5kIHBvc3RlZCB0byB0aGUgSUVURiByZXBv c2l0b3J5Lg0KDQpOYW1lOgkJZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1pcHBtLWlwc2VjDQpSZXZpc2lvbjoJMDMNClRp dGxlOgkJTmV0d29yayBQZXJmb3JtYW5jZSBNZWFzdXJlbWVudCBmb3IgSVBzZWMNCkRvY3VtZW50 IGRhdGU6CTIwMTQtMDYtMDUNCkdyb3VwOgkJaXBwbQ0KUGFnZXM6CQkxMg0KVVJMOiAgICAgICAg ICAgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtaXBwbS1p cHNlYy0wMy50eHQNClN0YXR1czogICAgICAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3Jn L2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWlwcG0taXBzZWMvDQpIdG1saXplZDogICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xz LmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1pcHBtLWlwc2VjLTAzDQpEaWZmOiAgICAgICAgICAg aHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9yZmNkaWZmP3VybDI9ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1pcHBtLWlwc2VjLTAz DQoNCkFic3RyYWN0Og0KICAgVGhlIE8vVFdBTVAgc2VjdXJpdHkgbWVjaGFuaXNtIHJlcXVpcmVz IHRoYXQgYm90aCB0aGUgY2xpZW50IGFuZA0KICAgc2VydmVyIGVuZHBvaW50cyBwb3NzZXNzIGEg c2hhcmVkIHNlY3JldC4gIFNpbmNlIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50bHktDQogICBzdGFuZGFyZGl6ZWQgTy9U V0FNUCBzZWN1cml0eSBtZWNoYW5pc20gb25seSBzdXBwb3J0cyBhIHByZS1zaGFyZWQNCiAgIGtl eSBtb2RlLCBsYXJnZSBzY2FsZSBkZXBsb3ltZW50IG9mIE8vVFdBTVAgaXMgaGluZGVyZWQNCiAg IHNpZ25pZmljYW50bHkuICBBdCB0aGUgc2FtZSB0aW1lLCByZWNlbnQgdHJlbmRzIHBvaW50IHRv IHdpZGVyIElLRXYyDQogICBkZXBsb3ltZW50IHdoaWNoLCBpbiB0dXJuLCBjYWxscyBmb3IgbWVj aGFuaXNtcyBhbmQgbWV0aG9kcyB0aGF0DQogICBlbmFibGUgdHVubmVsIGVuZC11c2VycywgYXMg d2VsbCBhcyBvcGVyYXRvcnMsIHRvIG1lYXN1cmUgb25lLXdheSBhbmQNCiAgIHR3by13YXkgbmV0 d29yayBwZXJmb3JtYW5jZSBpbiBhIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplZCBtYW5uZXIuICBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50 DQogICBkaXNjdXNzZXMgdGhlIHVzZSBvZiBrZXlzIGRlcml2ZWQgZnJvbSBhbiBJS0V2MiBTQSBh cyB0aGUgc2hhcmVkIGtleQ0KICAgaW4gTy9UV0FNUC4gIElmIHRoZSBzaGFyZWQga2V5IGNhbiBi ZSBkZXJpdmVkIGZyb20gdGhlIElLRXYyIFNBLCBPLw0KICAgVFdBTVAgY2FuIHN1cHBvcnQgY2Vy dGlmaWNhdGUtYmFzZWQga2V5IGV4Y2hhbmdlLCB3aGljaCB3b3VsZCBhbGxvdw0KICAgZm9yIG1v cmUgb3BlcmF0aW9uYWwgZmxleGliaWxpdHkgYW5kIGVmZmljaWVuY3kuICBUaGUga2V5IGRlcml2 YXRpb24NCiAgIHByZXNlbnRlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGNhbiBhbHNvIGZhY2lsaXRhdGUg YXV0b21hdGljIGtleQ0KICAgbWFuYWdlbWVudC4NCg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IA0KDQoNClBsZWFzZSBub3RlIHRoYXQgaXQgbWF5IHRha2UgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBm cm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24gdW50aWwgdGhlIGh0bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb24gYW5k IGRpZmYgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdCB0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy4NCg0KVGhlIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0 YXJpYXQNCg0K From nobody Thu Jun 5 05:53:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD621A008C; 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Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:52:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de ([fe80::c1f:c30f:99ac:df0c]) by SHUBCAS01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0181.006; Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:52:21 +0200 From: "Bajpai, Vaibhav" To: "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-03]: cgn deployments Thread-Index: AQHPgLz81oXOILZXKkGigR5fFju6tA== Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 12:52:20 +0000 Message-ID: <8975D915-4A81-4A86-8FF6-961D9F54EC0B@jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [213.157.249.122] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CD4C77BF-DD38-441C-B75A-65A77C0AE7F4"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/a5ekgF_IpvT-Io_odFaskAk10SI Cc: "" Subject: [ippm] [draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-03]: cgn deployments X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 12:52:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CD4C77BF-DD38-441C-B75A-65A77C0AE7F4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, This is with reference to draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-03 [1]. [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-03 Translation Between Reference Path and Various Technologies ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Subsc. -- Private -- Private -- Service-- Intra IP -- GRA -- Transit device Net #1 Net #2 Demarc. Access GW GRA GW mp000 mp100 mp150 mp190 mp200 |--UE--|------------CPE/NAT--------|------|-BRAS-|------| |------DSL Network---| |_______Un-managed sub-path________|__Managed sub-path__| The BRAS is deployed at mp150 within the reference path. However, if I = compare this with the specific case of CGN deployments: Subsc. -- Private ------------- Service-- Intra IP -- GRA -- Transit device Net #1 Demarc. Access GW GRA GW mp000 mp100 mp150 mp190 mp200 |--UE--|------------CPE/NAT--------|------|-CGN-|------| |-----DSL Network---| |_______Un-managed sub-path________|_Managed sub-path__| GRA =3D Globally Routable Address, GW =3D Gateway A Carrier Grade NAT (CGN) deployed in the Service Provider's access network would be positioned between mp100 and mp190, and the egress side of the CGN may be designated mp150. mp150 is generally an intermediate measurement point in the same address space as mp190. The CGN is also deployed at mp150 in the ^ figure. Is the CGN embedded = within the BRAS? If not, it would be nice to know if the CGN is deployed before = the BRAS or after the BRAS within the reference path. Best, Vaibhav ----------------------------------------------------- Vaibhav Bajpai Research I, Room 86 Computer Networks and Distributed Systems (CNDS) Lab School of Engineering and Sciences Jacobs University Bremen, Germany www.vaibhavbajpai.com --Apple-Mail=_CD4C77BF-DD38-441C-B75A-65A77C0AE7F4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTkGgDAAoJEHR3XKwTWKOZ1R0H/iiWs0yiRP1sNy9TRisyJpwn urZrF6p3w7vMdFlgNYJk5yK9uPVRi6MFraZeG2UB3QQoyf2n9Dhu3RmKZ4OkeKfG D0h0JYsdWeOsDTRrOabyH3+wn5IjAfXkDroIXZNxTSiBJUfn2m3Msl7Bi2QbP9O2 tkHvXQe3vKlLAXpOyTZCxG58m/VXaofUJ74KXouCZZkg1l55M3m1MjN9MhLJr+i9 7o61zh785vXs3GhH0L9Lp5UPk7L7jMGgfWOJuNhIAxJnA8rLmQBpgyxT7Rsw4En/ 2RpW/9JTLFfijfR7KKRQJuxUG9ePIzXZQTPTlWQuID38lqzqqZ1qvAUzjZ/zcbY= =g+Pa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_CD4C77BF-DD38-441C-B75A-65A77C0AE7F4-- From nobody Thu Jun 12 07:00:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E706F1A009A for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:00:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RqcgxG4e5ELr for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 931201B2A42 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:00:22 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79226d000004024-c9-5399b2749c8d Received: from ESESSHC015.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 35.E0.16420.472B9935; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:00:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB107.ericsson.se ([169.254.7.186]) by ESESSHC015.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.63]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:00:19 +0200 From: Christofer Flinta To: "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 Thread-Index: Ac+GNWhACLHDbC8jQ7WVDptxqVS1lw== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:00:19 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.17] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FE641D5B07B8124C97FF41C800C98E2719E2A285ESESSMB107erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW7JppnBBm1zFS16HrxjdmD0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxvTH01kKfulWbO2+xNjAeFu9i5GTQ0LAROLGjw42CFtM4sK9 9UA2F4eQwFFGiWNHTzNBOEsYJe5u+sAMUsUmYCFxrG8qO4gtIqAs0fLtDyOILQwU375pElTc VqL19HxWCFtPYlnvR6AaDg4WAVWJde0BICavgK/E7CvcIBWMArIS97/fYwGxmQXEJW49mc8E cY+AxJI955khbFGJl4//sYK0SggoSizvlwMxmQXyJV7czwKp4BUQlDg58wnLBEahWUgGzUKo moWkCqJER2LB7k9sELa2xLKFr5lh7DMHHjMhiy9gZF/FKFqcWpyUm25krJdalJlcXJyfp5eX WrKJERgLB7f8Vt3BePmN4yFGAQ5GJR5ehZkzgoVYE8uKK3MPMUpzsCiJ817UqA4WEkhPLEnN Tk0tSC2KLyrNSS0+xMjEwSnVwCh8vX1nQPPsC8l7bgZNztbZvcvJlK1lbtkumy0Ls28v5dfL /HTkj9Ey+aXhOjetT/YdXNimxhyQufuCeOrHx6xfbgoJJhmZPZtxZLXEcb4ZF1rFc6dVatdw JFXoi0WnqWzkX+ZeejqjaZv3vXuFTCKR3Wd/a4ppndr2fV+H3W3Pm4dsIotnb1ZiKc5INNRi LipOBADMzHhWZgIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/wr2XwFQJwwZxmf_4LuE-r4xX6A8 Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:00:25 -0000 --_000_FE641D5B07B8124C97FF41C800C98E2719E2A285ESESSMB107erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi IPPM group, I have a comment on the rate-problem draft. I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size can be an important feature for= rate measurements. However, I don't find it necessary to have it mandatory= for all types of measurements, as specified in section 5: "The ability to control packet size on the tested path and enable asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture are REQUIRED. This allows both the conventional symmetric packet size testing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed to solve various aspects of rate measurement: real-time communications often have symmetrical streams, while file transfers have highly asymmetrical streams in the data and acknowledgement traffic directions." In this paragraph the requirement on asymmetrical packet size is supported = by two examples: real-time communications and file transfer. However, the t= ext states that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while file = transfer is asymmetrical (because of TCP ACKs). This means that the need fo= r the asymmetrical size is actually mainly for TCP test streams, while most= UDP test streams will use symmetrical size. Therefore, I think asymmetrical size should be mandatory only for TCP test = streams and optional for UDP test streams. I suggest changing the first par= t of the paragraph to: "The ability to control packet size on the tested path is REQUIRED. Asymmet= rical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is REQUIRED for TCP tes= t streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test streams." BR, Christofer --_000_FE641D5B07B8124C97FF41C800C98E2719E2A285ESESSMB107erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi IPPM group,
 
I have a comment on the rate-problem draft.
 
I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size ca= n be an important feature for rate measurements. However, I don’t fin= d it necessary to have it mandatory for all types of measurements, as speci= fied in section 5:
 
“The ability to control packet size on the tested path = and enable
   asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architectur= e are
   REQUIRED.  This allows both the conventional symmetr= ic packet size
   testing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed = to solve
   various aspects of rate measurement: real-time communicat= ions often
   have symmetrical streams, while file transfers have highl= y
   asymmetrical streams in the data and acknowledgement traf= fic
   directions.”
 
In = this paragraph the requirement on asymmetrical packet size is supported by = two examples: real-time communications and file transfer. However, the text= states that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while file transfer is asymmetrical (because of TCP = ACKs). This means that the need for the asymmetrical size is actually mainl= y for TCP test streams, while most UDP test streams will use symmetrical si= ze.
 
The= refore, I think asymmetrical size should be mandatory only for TCP test str= eams and optional for UDP test streams. I suggest changing the first part o= f the paragraph to:
 
“The ability to control packet size on the tested path = is REQUIRED. Asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is = REQUIRED for TCP test streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test streams.”
 
BR,
Christofer
&nbs= p;
&nbs= p;
 --_000_FE641D5B07B8124C97FF41C800C98E2719E2A285ESESSMB107erics_-- From nobody Thu Jun 12 07:13:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 299D01B2A56 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:13:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.851 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pGWP9MU20WzW for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-red.research.att.com (mail-red.research.att.com [204.178.8.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A191B2A4D for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (unknown [135.207.178.11]) by mail-red.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F677554AFC; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com (unknown [135.207.255.243]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCE3F00F2; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NJFPSRVEXG8.research.att.com ([fe80::cdea:b3f6:3efa:1841]) by njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com ([fe80::cdea:b3f6:3efa:1841%13]) with mapi; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:13:10 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Christofer Flinta , "ippm@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:13:08 -0400 Thread-Topic: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 Thread-Index: Ac+GNWhACLHDbC8jQ7WVDptxqVS1lwAEfQAQ Message-ID: <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C801896A7759@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C801896A7759njfpsrvexg8re_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/zAKz935Ybod0ccwPv0dsqsGhUpU Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:13:13 -0000 --_000_2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C801896A7759njfpsrvexg8re_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christofer, This paragraph and requirement is the result of much discussion and compromise (already). We do not mandate measurements, but for rate measurement we mandate the capability to control packet sizes including asymmetrical sizes. There are circumstances where it is valid to test with UDP using asymmetrical sizes, so we don't want to mix transport layers with this requirement. regards, Al From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christofer Flinta Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:00 AM To: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 Hi IPPM group, I have a comment on the rate-problem draft. I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size can be an important feature for= rate measurements. However, I don't find it necessary to have it mandatory= for all types of measurements, as specified in section 5: "The ability to control packet size on the tested path and enable asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture are REQUIRED. This allows both the conventional symmetric packet size testing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed to solve various aspects of rate measurement: real-time communications often have symmetrical streams, while file transfers have highly asymmetrical streams in the data and acknowledgement traffic directions." In this paragraph the requirement on asymmetrical packet size is supported = by two examples: real-time communications and file transfer. However, the t= ext states that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while file = transfer is asymmetrical (because of TCP ACKs). This means that the need fo= r the asymmetrical size is actually mainly for TCP test streams, while most= UDP test streams will use symmetrical size. Therefore, I think asymmetrical size should be mandatory only for TCP test = streams and optional for UDP test streams. I suggest changing the first par= t of the paragraph to: "The ability to control packet size on the tested path is REQUIRED. Asymmet= rical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is REQUIRED for TCP tes= t streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test streams." BR, Christofer --_000_2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C801896A7759njfpsrvexg8re_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Christofer,=

 

This paragraph and requirement is= the result of much discussion and

compromise (al= ready).

 

We do n= ot mandate measurements, but for rate measurement we mandate

the capability to control packet sizes including asymmetrical s= izes.

There are circumstances where it is valid t= o test with UDP using

asymmetrical sizes, so we = don't want to mix transport layers with

this requ= irement.

 

regards= ,

Al

 <= /span>

From: ippm [mailto:ippm-= bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christofer Flinta
Sent: Thu= rsday, June 12, 2014 10:00 AM
To: ippm@ietf.org
Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05

 

H= i IPPM group,

 

=

I have a comment on the rate-problem draft.=

 

I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size can be an import= ant feature for rate measurements. However, I don’t find it necessary= to have it mandatory for all types of measurements, as specified in sectio= n 5:=

 

“The ability to control packet size = on the tested path and enable

<= span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>   asym= metrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture are

   REQUIRED.  This allows both the conv= entional symmetric packet size

 &= nbsp; testing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed to solve

   various aspects of rate meas= urement: real-time communications often

   asymmetrical streams in th= e data and acknowledgement traffic

&nb= sp;  directions.”

 

In thi= s paragraph the requirement on asymmetrical packet size is supported by two= examples: real-time communications and file transfer. However, the text st= ates that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while file transf= er is asymmetrical (because of TCP ACKs). This means that the need for the = asymmetrical size is actually mainly for TCP test streams, while most UDP t= est streams will use symmetrical size.

 

Therefore,= I think asymmetrical size should be mandatory only for TCP test streams an= d optional for UDP test streams. I suggest changing the first part of the p= aragraph to: 

“The ability to con= trol packet size on the tested path is REQUIRED. Asymmetrical packet size t= esting in a two-way architecture is REQUIRED for TCP test streams and OPTI= ONAL for UDP test streams.”

 

BR,

Christofe= r

 

 

= --_000_2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C801896A7759njfpsrvexg8re_-- From nobody Thu Jun 12 07:33:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F251A1A0285 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:33:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gFJ6HVBM9PCX for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BDD41A012D for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:33:38 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79df6d000002de0-f1-539966f6e84d Received: from EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.87]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F5.25.11744.6F669935; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:38:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:33:36 -0400 From: Steve Baillargeon To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" , Christofer Flinta , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 Thread-Index: AQHPhkh3ZjB5mW6nb0i7pR9Imns3yptthKDw Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:33:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C801896A7759@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C801896A7759@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.12] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DCF22B50497F7641B6DDD16ECC516F7F3F09A9C8eusaamb105erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPuO73tJnBBkcm8VpsPTaR0aLnwTtm ByaPl/1zGD2WLPnJFMAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJVx7Xdewfv5jBX/fnxja2Bc1M/YxcjJISFg IrFo9S92CFtM4sK99WxdjFwcQgJHGSVeb3jDBOEsZ5Q4ePgWWBWbgIXE+rnLmEESIgKtjBIv jv5hA0kIC9hILH+9gxXEFhGwlWg9PR/KNpLo3XKbGcRmEVCV2LJ2E9ggXgFfiafrWpkhNswE Wre8ESzBKRAmsfHvVCYQm1FAVmL32etgNrOAuMStJ/OZIG4VkFiy5zwzhC0q8fLxP1YIW0li zutrzBD1+RINV7YxQSwTlDg58wnLBEaRWUhGzUJSNgtJGURcR2LB7k9sELa2xLKFr5lh7DMH HjMhiy9gZF/FyFFanFqWm25kuIkRGEXHJNgcdzAu+GR5iFGAg1GJh3eBxoxgIdbEsuLK3EOM 0hwsSuK8e65VBQsJpCeWpGanphakFsUXleakFh9iZOLglGpgtDtXEfUgNPJAXanZ16f9F/TX yhj+Tem9mWv6/da+t+tvHr3e5eWnWccmXqymvN14Z5ObyB5518nND4/vncr3ePXSdL2obSr/ y3/apm+WeDHrf1bby80Ccxo+nXnx7ft1lbfHLW+a6pbceat6Qd20JnH3T/14aZegibExXqUn 6pczzmsSzGr8o8RSnJFoqMVcVJwIADq7pfeDAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/rfWbsP-zNBKolpjWlCa_jOJfrzM Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:33:42 -0000 --_000_DCF22B50497F7641B6DDD16ECC516F7F3F09A9C8eusaamb105erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi +1 for Christopher. There are circumstances where it is valid to test UDP bitrate using symmetr= ical packet sizes. Many UDP based protocols like UDP echo plus and TWAMP can measure/estimate = bitrates using symmetrical packet sizes. Another concrete example is the TW= AMP extension described in RFC 6802. The standard TWAMP specs clearly recom= mends using symmetrical packet sizes. Why exclude existing protocols? There were much discussion on this topic in the past but nothing has been d= one to address it in the draft. I have not seen any compromise other than the text proposed by Christofer. Regards Steve From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of MORTON, ALFRED C (AL= ) Sent: June-12-14 10:13 AM To: Christofer Flinta; ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 Hi Christofer, This paragraph and requirement is the result of much discussion and compromise (already). We do not mandate measurements, but for rate measurement we mandate the capability to control packet sizes including asymmetrical sizes. There are circumstances where it is valid to test with UDP using asymmetrical sizes, so we don't want to mix transport layers with this requirement. regards, Al From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christofer Flinta Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:00 AM To: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 Hi IPPM group, I have a comment on the rate-problem draft. I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size can be an important feature for= rate measurements. However, I don't find it necessary to have it mandatory= for all types of measurements, as specified in section 5: "The ability to control packet size on the tested path and enable asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture are REQUIRED. This allows both the conventional symmetric packet size testing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed to solve various aspects of rate measurement: real-time communications often have symmetrical streams, while file transfers have highly asymmetrical streams in the data and acknowledgement traffic directions." In this paragraph the requirement on asymmetrical packet size is supported = by two examples: real-time communications and file transfer. However, the t= ext states that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while file = transfer is asymmetrical (because of TCP ACKs). This means that the need fo= r the asymmetrical size is actually mainly for TCP test streams, while most= UDP test streams will use symmetrical size. Therefore, I think asymmetrical size should be mandatory only for TCP test = streams and optional for UDP test streams. I suggest changing the first par= t of the paragraph to: "The ability to control packet size on the tested path is REQUIRED. Asymmet= rical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is REQUIRED for TCP tes= t streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test streams." BR, Christofer --_000_DCF22B50497F7641B6DDD16ECC516F7F3F09A9C8eusaamb105erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi

+1 for Christopher.

 <= /p>

There are circumstances w= here it is valid to test UDP bitrate using symmetrical packet sizes.

Many UDP based protocols = like UDP echo plus and TWAMP can measure/estimate bitrates using symmetrica= l packet sizes. Another concrete example is the TWAMP extension described in RFC 6802. The standard TWAMP specs clearly recommends using s= ymmetrical packet sizes. Why exclude existing protocols?<= /p>

 <= /p>

There were much discussio= n on this topic in the past but nothing has been done to address it in the = draft.

I have not seen any compr= omise other than the text proposed by Christofer.

 <= /p>

Regards=

Steve

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
Sent: June-12-14 10:13 AM
To: Christofer Flinta; ippm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05

 

Hi Christofer,

 

This paragraph and requirement is the resul= t of much discussion and

compromise (already).

 

We do not mandate measurements, but for rat= e measurement we mandate

the capability to control packet sizes incl= uding asymmetrical sizes.

There are circumstances where it is valid t= o test with UDP using

asymmetrical sizes, so we don't want to mix= transport layers with

this requirement.

 

regards,

Al

 

From: ippm [mailto= :ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christofer Flinta
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:00 AM
To: ippm@ietf.org
Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05<= /span>

 

Hi IPPM group,

 

I have a comment on the rate-= problem draft.

 

I fully agree that asymmetric= al packet size can be an important feature for rate measurements. However, = I don’t find it necessary to have it mandatory for all types of measurements, as specified in section 5:=

 

“The ability to control packet size on the tested p= ath and enable

   asymmetrical packet size testi= ng in a two-way architecture are

   REQUIRED.  This allows bo= th the conventional symmetric packet size

   testing and asymmetrical packe= t size testing to employed to solve

   various aspects of rate measur= ement: real-time communications often

   have symmetrical streams, whil= e file transfers have highly

   asymmetrical streams in the da= ta and acknowledgement traffic

   directions.”

 

In this paragraph the require= ment on asymmetrical packet size is supported by two examples: real-time co= mmunications and file transfer. However, the text states that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while file tra= nsfer is asymmetrical (because of TCP ACKs). This means that the need for t= he asymmetrical size is actually mainly for TCP test streams, while most UD= P test streams will use symmetrical size.

 

Therefore, I think asymmetric= al size should be mandatory only for TCP test streams and optional for UDP = test streams. I suggest changing the first part of the paragraph to:

 

“The ability to control packet size on the tested p= ath is REQUIRED. Asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is= REQUIRED for TCP test streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test st= reams.”

 

BR,

Christofer

 <= o:p>

 <= o:p>

--_000_DCF22B50497F7641B6DDD16ECC516F7F3F09A9C8eusaamb105erics_-- From nobody Thu Jun 12 08:12:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E149B1B2A82 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:11:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_AT=0.424, HOST_EQ_AT=0.745, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rd_vGxxnnIuE for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.zserv.tuwien.ac.at (mail1.zserv.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.35.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41961B2A93 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.164.233.210] (212095007139.public.telering.at [212.95.7.139]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail1.zserv.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s5CFBQRf001897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Jun 2014 17:11:28 +0200 References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-67D487E4-E85E-4CA8-8B02-9A7C0BB1EA6A Message-Id: <6ABC0846-3996-4964-8D47-F57480F1543F@tuwien.ac.at> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D201) From: Joachim Fabini Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 17:11:19 +0200 To: Christofer Flinta Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/5OKoYv71zUOxFxIchdGl6_8nC6o Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:12:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail-67D487E4-E85E-4CA8-8B02-9A7C0BB1EA6A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christofer, I'd rather stay with the current wording and requirement. Main app-layer pro= tocols (sip, H.323, etc) are prepared to handle asymmetric streams (i.e. dis= tinct codecs for forward and backward path) on top of UDP. We have asymmetri= c networks in the access and I can envision many scenarios which require asy= mmetry for UDP, too (unidirectional video streaming with some RTCP feedback,= video-on-demand with feedback channel, asymmetric video with high res in do= wnlink and low res in uplink, even CBR voice with distinct codecs in uplink a= nd downlink might become reality sooner than expected with upcoming VoLTE).=20= So I'd favour to extend and be more specific with respect to the text which d= iscusses use cases, but leave the requirement as-is.=20 regards Joachim > Am 12.06.2014 um 16:00 schrieb Christofer Flinta : >=20 > Hi IPPM group, > =20 > I have a comment on the rate-problem draft. > =20 > I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size can be an important feature fo= r rate measurements. However, I don=E2=80=99t find it necessary to have it m= andatory for all types of measurements, as specified in section 5: > =20 > =E2=80=9CThe ability to control packet size on the tested path and enable > asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture are > REQUIRED. This allows both the conventional symmetric packet size > testing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed to solve > various aspects of rate measurement: real-time communications often > have symmetrical streams, while file transfers have highly > asymmetrical streams in the data and acknowledgement traffic > directions.=E2=80=9D > =20 > In this paragraph the requirement on asymmetrical packet size is supported= by two examples: real-time communications and file transfer. However, the t= ext states that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while file t= ransfer is asymmetrical (because of TCP ACKs). This means that the need for t= he asymmetrical size is actually mainly for TCP test streams, while most UDP= test streams will use symmetrical size. > =20 > Therefore, I think asymmetrical size should be mandatory only for TCP test= streams and optional for UDP test streams. I suggest changing the first par= t of the paragraph to: > =20 > =E2=80=9CThe ability to control packet size on the tested path is REQUIRED= . Asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is REQUIRED for= TCP test streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test streams.=E2=80=9D > =20 > BR, > Christofer > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail-67D487E4-E85E-4CA8-8B02-9A7C0BB1EA6A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Christofer,
I'd rather st= ay with the current wording and requirement. Main app-layer protocols (sip, H= .323, etc) are prepared to handle asymmetric streams (i.e. distinct codecs f= or forward and backward path) on top of UDP. We have asymmetric networks in t= he access and I can envision many scenarios which require asymmetry for UDP,= too (unidirectional video streaming with some RTCP feedback, video-on-deman= d with feedback channel, asymmetric video with high res in downlink and low r= es in uplink, even CBR voice with distinct codecs in uplink and downlink mig= ht become reality sooner than expected with upcoming VoLTE). 
So I'd favour to extend and be more specific with respect to the text which= discusses use cases, but leave the requirement as-is. 
regar= ds Joachim

Am 12.06.2014 um 16:00 schrieb Christofer Flinta &l= t;christofer.flinta@ericss= on.com>:

=
Hi IPPM group,
 
I have a comment on the rate-problem draft.
 
I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size can= be an important feature for rate measurements. However, I don=E2=80=99t fin= d it necessary to have it mandatory for all types of measurements, as specif= ied in section 5:
 
=E2=80=9CThe ability to control packet size on the tested path a= nd enable
   asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture= are
   REQUIRED.  This allows both the conventional symmetri= c packet size
   testing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed t= o solve
   various aspects of rate measurement: real-time communicati= ons often
   have symmetrical streams, while file transfers have highly=
   asymmetrical streams in the data and acknowledgement traff= ic
   directions.=E2=80=9D
 
In t= his paragraph the requirement on asymmetrical packet size is supported by tw= o examples: real-time communications and file transfer. However, the text st= ates that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while file transfer is asymmetrical (because of TCP A= CKs). This means that the need for the asymmetrical size is actually mainly f= or TCP test streams, while most UDP test streams will use symmetrical size. <= /span>
 
Ther= efore, I think asymmetrical size should be mandatory only for TCP test strea= ms and optional for UDP test streams. I suggest changing the first part of t= he paragraph to:
 
=E2=80=9CThe ability to control packet size on the tested path i= s REQUIRED. Asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is RE= QUIRED for TCP test streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test streams.=E2=80=9D
 
BR,
Christofer
 = ;
 = ;
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= --Apple-Mail-67D487E4-E85E-4CA8-8B02-9A7C0BB1EA6A-- From nobody Thu Jun 12 09:08:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C71B41B2A9F for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:08:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C1fczedXXhKD for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C551A1A01AA for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:08:39 -0700 (PDT) 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Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX188YnI+DQppcHBtIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdDxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0 bzppcHBtQGlldGYub3JnIj5pcHBtQGlldGYub3JnPC9hPjxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXBwbSI+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pcHBtPC9hPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2Nr cXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_DCF22B50497F7641B6DDD16ECC516F7F3F09AA2Beusaamb105erics_-- From nobody Thu Jun 12 09:26:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05F41A0190 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:26:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nYfFIAuJEklz for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x232.google.com (mail-vc0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48CF61A0174 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f178.google.com with SMTP id ij19so1080256vcb.9 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:26:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=P+9vYtXnzwnyvTHtgaJVASZ5YvAbEh92DpauT/WUT3M=; b=UKfEM7rt14EojW3t8XR2tixc1PI8KucHC3F/E3juA3HlbWKMEbnOJvw0ZCJlYow3Lc WNN4UwtpZJfwZhCRqq2eroXtyGzXi0iX74LU3u0FC2hFelYzATrfQPX14kl3quSntjvK OvIlY+yV+vuycUatBYRgqmCfMdoZzVcf9GOOcUuEDqws6AUabJHInkbQSicl539/SVtB 0Vi+bTMMljA8Pl5ffu9NLZ1ekx3zE+zCPsUR9EFAkID5wvNHLoAIl5aoFuDOavnfILv1 txVyMfD4Y8ZhxFiD0T6a3T2clktHmB1Uetiey7zCkdK5bQBqbHJSAqXIjUdXsB9DjuYW stPw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.7.71 with SMTP id on7mr45266950vcb.18.1402590375363; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.15.136 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:26:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C801896A7759@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> References: <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C801896A7759@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:26:15 -0700 Message-ID: From: Greg Mirsky To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122a3e216f76f04fba60592 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/phMyXGOfPubx_UFS1BwGeULILT4 Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:26:18 -0000 --089e0122a3e216f76f04fba60592 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Al, et. al, I support text change proposed by Christofer. I believe it does not limit anything but allows more flexibility to measurement control protocol. And I'd remind the WG that we had discussion of this particular requirement before: - http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ippm/current/msg03130.html; - http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ippm/current/msg03065.html; Regards, Greg On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 7:13 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote: > Hi Christofer, > > > > This paragraph and requirement is the result of much discussion and > > compromise (already). > > > > We do not mandate measurements, but for rate measurement we mandate > > the capability to control packet sizes including asymmetrical sizes. > > There are circumstances where it is valid to test with UDP using > > asymmetrical sizes, so we don't want to mix transport layers with > > this requirement. > > > > regards, > > Al > > > > *From:* ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Christofer > Flinta > *Sent:* Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:00 AM > *To:* ippm@ietf.org > *Subject:* [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 > > > > Hi IPPM group, > > > > I have a comment on the rate-problem draft. > > > > I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size can be an important feature > for rate measurements. However, I don=E2=80=99t find it necessary to have= it > mandatory for all types of measurements, as specified in section 5: > > > > =E2=80=9CThe ability to control packet size on the tested path and enable > > asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture are > > REQUIRED. This allows both the conventional symmetric packet size > > testing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed to solve > > various aspects of rate measurement: real-time communications often > > have symmetrical streams, while file transfers have highly > > asymmetrical streams in the data and acknowledgement traffic > > directions.=E2=80=9D > > > > In this paragraph the requirement on asymmetrical packet size is supporte= d > by two examples: real-time communications and file transfer. However, the > text states that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while fi= le > transfer is asymmetrical (because of TCP ACKs). This means that the need > for the asymmetrical size is actually mainly for TCP test streams, while > most UDP test streams will use symmetrical size. > > > > Therefore, I think asymmetrical size should be mandatory only for TCP tes= t > streams and optional for UDP test streams. I suggest changing the first > part of the paragraph to: > > > > =E2=80=9CThe ability to control packet size on the tested path is REQUIRE= D. > Asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is REQUIRED fo= r > TCP test streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test streams.=E2=80=9D > > > > BR, > > Christofer > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > --089e0122a3e216f76f04fba60592 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Al, et. al,
I support text ch= ange proposed by Christofer. I believe it does not limit anything but allow= s more flexibility to measurement control protocol.
And I'd re= mind the WG that we had discussion of this particular requirement before:
Regards,
Greg


On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 7:13 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acmorton@att.= com> wrote:

Hi Christofer,

=C2=A0

This parag= raph and requirement is the result of much discussion and

compromise (already).

=C2=A0

We do not mandate measurements, but for rate measurement w= e mandate

the capability to contro= l packet sizes including asymmetrical sizes.

There are circumstances where it is valid to test with UDP= using

asymmetrical sizes, so we = don't want to mix transport layers with

this requirement.

=C2=A0

regards,

Al

=C2=A0

From: ippm [ma= ilto:ippm-bounce= s@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christofer Flinta
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:00 AM
To: ippm@ietf.org
Subject: [i= ppm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05

=C2=A0

Hi IPPM group,

=C2=A0

<= /div>

I have a comment on the rate-problem draft.<= /span>=

=C2=A0

<= /div>

I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size = can be an important feature for rate measurements. However, I don=E2=80=99t= find it necessary to have it mandatory for all types of measurements, as s= pecified in section 5:

=C2=A0

<= /div>

=E2=80=9CThe= ability to control packet size on the tested path and enable

=C2=A0=C2=A0 asymmetrical packet size testing i= n a two-way architecture are

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 REQUIRED.=C2=A0 This allows both the conventional symmetric packet s= ize

=C2=A0=C2=A0 test= ing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed to solve=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 various aspects of rate measuremen= t: real-time communications often

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 have symmetrical streams, while file transfers have highly=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 asymmetrical stream= s in the data and acknowledgement traffic

=C2=A0=C2=A0 directions.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">=

In this paragraph the requirement= on asymmetrical packet size is supported by two examples: real-time commun= ications and file transfer. However, the text states that real-time communi= cations are often symmetrical, while file transfer is asymmetrical (because= of TCP ACKs). This means that the need for the asymmetrical size is actual= ly mainly for TCP test streams, while most UDP test streams will use symmet= rical size.

=C2=A0<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">=

Therefore, I think asymmetrical s= ize should be mandatory only for TCP test streams and optional for UDP test= streams. I suggest changing the first part of the paragraph to:=

=C2=A0<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">=

=E2=80=9CThe ability to control packet size on the tested path is REQUIRED. = Asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is REQUIRED for TCP test streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test streams.= =E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

BR,

Christofer

=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


___________________________________= ____________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


--089e0122a3e216f76f04fba60592-- From nobody Thu Jun 12 12:47:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F47C1A025A for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:47:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.682 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.682 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_AT=0.424, HOST_EQ_AT=0.745, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6LS9xQDZ6OQM for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.zserv.tuwien.ac.at (mail1.zserv.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.35.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945901A0249 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.131.67.239] (jason.nt.tuwien.ac.at [128.131.67.239]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail1.zserv.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s5CJljHR008419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Jun 2014 21:47:45 +0200 Message-ID: <539A03A8.8000505@tuwien.ac.at> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 21:46:48 +0200 From: Joachim Fabini User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Baillargeon , Christofer Flinta References: <6ABC0846-3996-4964-8D47-F57480F1543F@tuwien.ac.at> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/6YAzqijtJ53DlemyxpIvBd7dIpc Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 19:47:51 -0000 Hi Steve, my "asymmetric streams" should read as "streams with asymmetric packet sizes in a two-way architecture". Please correct me if I'm wrong: my understanding of Christopher's proposal is that streams in the forward path which trigger streams of distinct packet size in the reverse path should be optional. The targeted measurement methodology/process appears to share some main traits with some earlier, rather theoretical work I've done in another context [1]. Therein, as part of a feasibility study, we also change characteristics of forward link measurement streams in the reflecting node to infer on accurate forward and reverse link one-way delay. Seconded by findings in the 2330-update draft (in particular when thinking of distinct reactive/on-demand capacity allocation policies of forward/reverse measurement path) the ability to trigger distinct packet sizes in a two-way architecture's reverse link (for UDP) seems to me to make sufficient sense to justify more than an "Optional". [1]: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=6553584 br Joachim On 12.06.2014 18:08, Steve Baillargeon wrote: > Hi Joachim > Christofer did not say asymmetry is not needed. He is saying that both asymmetry and symmetry are valid use cases for active and passive bitrate measurements in two-way architecture. I prefer we use the new proposed text since it satisfies all. > > -Steve > > > From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joachim Fabini > Sent: June-12-14 11:11 AM > To: Christofer Flinta > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 > > Hi Christofer, > I'd rather stay with the current wording and requirement. Main app-layer protocols (sip, H.323, etc) are prepared to handle asymmetric streams (i.e. distinct codecs for forward and backward path) on top of UDP. We have asymmetric networks in the access and I can envision many scenarios which require asymmetry for UDP, too (unidirectional video streaming with some RTCP feedback, video-on-demand with feedback channel, asymmetric video with high res in downlink and low res in uplink, even CBR voice with distinct codecs in uplink and downlink might become reality sooner than expected with upcoming VoLTE). > So I'd favour to extend and be more specific with respect to the text which discusses use cases, but leave the requirement as-is. > regards Joachim > > Am 12.06.2014 um 16:00 schrieb Christofer Flinta >: > Hi IPPM group, > > I have a comment on the rate-problem draft. > > I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size can be an important feature for rate measurements. However, I don’t find it necessary to have it mandatory for all types of measurements, as specified in section 5: > > “The ability to control packet size on the tested path and enable > asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture are > REQUIRED. This allows both the conventional symmetric packet size > testing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed to solve > various aspects of rate measurement: real-time communications often > have symmetrical streams, while file transfers have highly > asymmetrical streams in the data and acknowledgement traffic > directions.” > > In this paragraph the requirement on asymmetrical packet size is supported by two examples: real-time communications and file transfer. However, the text states that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while file transfer is asymmetrical (because of TCP ACKs). This means that the need for the asymmetrical size is actually mainly for TCP test streams, while most UDP test streams will use symmetrical size. > > Therefore, I think asymmetrical size should be mandatory only for TCP test streams and optional for UDP test streams. I suggest changing the first part of the paragraph to: > > “The ability to control packet size on the tested path is REQUIRED. Asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is REQUIRED for TCP test streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test streams.” > > BR, > Christofer > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > From nobody Thu Jun 12 15:12:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F6CB1A01BB for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:12:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hWUsdPlY-rSy for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8171B1A015F for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:12:14 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79be6d000006b89-ec-5399d4dbd22c Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DB.73.27529.BD4D9935; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 18:27:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 18:12:11 -0400 From: Steve Baillargeon To: Joachim Fabini , Christofer Flinta Thread-Topic: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 Thread-Index: AQHPhlCtyoYwpkUw5USw/DAvy25f75ttomHwgACCJAD//9vWAA== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 22:12:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6ABC0846-3996-4964-8D47-F57480F1543F@tuwien.ac.at> <539A03A8.8000505@tuwien.ac.at> In-Reply-To: <539A03A8.8000505@tuwien.ac.at> Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrO6dKzODDY7eZLfoefCO2WLylH2s DkweS5b8ZPJo+iEQwBTFZZOSmpNZllqkb5fAldFw+RVbwTnLit2b+9kbGCdYdDFyckgImEg8 XvuAEcIWk7hwbz0biC0kcJRR4myjQBcjF5C9nFHiVttkFpAEm4CFxPq5y5hBbBGBNIkLp64y gdjMAsoSe1/NBxskLGAjsfz1DlaIGluJ1tPzoWwnidbVW8FsFgFViWnHTgDN4eDgFfCVePrS GGLXS0aJ6Y97weZzCuhILLg3G2w+o4CsxO6z16F2iUvcejKfCeJoAYkle84zQ9iiEi8f/2OF sBUl9vVPZweZzyygKbF+lz5Eq6LElO6H7CA2r4CgxMmZT1gmMIrNQjJ1FkLHLCQds5B0LGBk WcXIUVqcWpabbmSwiREYH8ck2HR3MO55aXmIUYCDUYmHN2HTzGAh1sSy4srcQ4zSHCxK4rza N6uChQTSE0tSs1NTC1KL4otKc1KLDzEycXBKNTBK3WXxTK3ZaTw147tFb5zo8ikTw5gv6C4M KlCtqavYZn7fztX8DcvGivrOz1O2mW85/7GkPex7wwNbnQ2LC7wYLfgOXa9TzTyov8fIuPGn 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c3ltbWV0cmljYWwgc2l6ZS4NCj4gDQo+IFRoZXJlZm9yZSwgSSB0aGluayBhc3ltbWV0cmljYWwg c2l6ZSBzaG91bGQgYmUgbWFuZGF0b3J5IG9ubHkgZm9yIFRDUCB0ZXN0IHN0cmVhbXMgYW5kIG9w dGlvbmFsIGZvciBVRFAgdGVzdCBzdHJlYW1zLiBJIHN1Z2dlc3QgY2hhbmdpbmcgdGhlIGZpcnN0 IHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIHBhcmFncmFwaCB0bzoNCj4gDQo+IOKAnFRoZSBhYmlsaXR5IHRvIGNvbnRy b2wgcGFja2V0IHNpemUgb24gdGhlIHRlc3RlZCBwYXRoIGlzIFJFUVVJUkVELiBBc3ltbWV0cmlj YWwgcGFja2V0IHNpemUgdGVzdGluZyBpbiBhIHR3by13YXkgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIGlzIFJFUVVJ UkVEIGZvciBUQ1AgdGVzdCBzdHJlYW1zIGFuZCBPUFRJT05BTCBmb3IgVURQIHRlc3Qgc3RyZWFt cy7igJ0NCj4gDQo+IEJSLA0KPiBDaHJpc3RvZmVyDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gaXBwbSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4g aXBwbUBpZXRmLm9yZzxtYWlsdG86aXBwbUBpZXRmLm9yZz4NCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pcHBtDQo+IA0K From nobody Fri Jun 13 13:54:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36DB1B2802 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:54:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.682 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.682 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_AT=0.424, HOST_EQ_AT=0.745, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K_0u26aWqVEU for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.zserv.tuwien.ac.at (mail1.zserv.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.35.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4DA11A025A for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.1.16] (surprise.nt.tuwien.ac.at [128.131.67.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail1.zserv.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s5DKsgVx021109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:54:43 +0200 Message-ID: <539B6513.8030603@tuwien.ac.at> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:54:43 +0200 From: Joachim Fabini User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Baillargeon , Christofer Flinta References: <6ABC0846-3996-4964-8D47-F57480F1543F@tuwien.ac.at> <539A03A8.8000505@tuwien.ac.at> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/qRsSpko5agn9bZcigufMq5SyKYU Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 20:54:50 -0000 Hi Steve, RECOMMENDED for UDP might be one way to go. However, if the rate-problem draft becomes a RFC, it will be a feature that two-way measurement tools may implement - as an _option_. In my opinion, asymmetric packet size for two-way measurements is one of the main contributions of the rate-problem draft and that justifies a REQUIRED. Treating UDP and TCP differently with respect to forward and reverse link packet size would make sense for me - if we know that there is no use case for UDP. But imho there must be objective arguments why we _discriminate_ (or privilege) one transport protocol over the other and _not_ why we treat it in a generic way. My personal preference for standardization would be to develop generic solutions, advocate equal protocol treatment - unless there are good reasons to discriminate one. I don't see such a reason for this specific case. I mentioned in my earlier postings some use cases for UDP, which I believe to be realistic or become real in the next years. And, continuing rather theoretical about transport protocol evolution: Half-connections in DCCP target exactly the same communication pattern which we experience for TCP. Data flow plus control flow is going in one direction, control flow in the reverse link. This ends up in distinct packet sizes for forward and reverse link. One can dispute about the success of DCCP, but I like the design of the protocol as such, it has a strong theoretical background, including requirements engineering. To summarize my arguments: imho we should try to go the generic way unless we have very good reasons _not_ to do so. And reactive link behavior, combined with asymmetrical uplink/downlink like we find, e.g., in today's mobile cellular networks, is imho a _strong_ reason to have REQUIRED for distinct forward/reverse link packet sizes for all transport protocols - including UDP (*). br Joachim (*) My experience is that we can trigger state changes and specific reactive link conditions/transitions (in the context of explorative measurements) with UDP (or ICMP) much more deterministic than we can do with TCP. On 13.06.2014 00:12, Steve Baillargeon wrote: > Hi Joachim > RECOMMENDED is probably a better way to go. > With various Internet traffic mix, we have test results that show forward and reverse available (raw) capacities (with different loading and/or link speed and/or shaping conditions) can be estimated with a single two-way test stream using the same test packet size (assuming the packet size does not cause fragmentation). > > I am OK with the following statement (as suggested by Christofer): The ability to control packet size on the tested path is REQUIRED. > > I still think the following statement is incomplete or misleading: Asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is REQUIRED. > > As a minimum, should it better explain when and why asymmetrical packet size testing is REQUIRED? > > -Steve > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joachim Fabini [mailto:Joachim.Fabini@tuwien.ac.at] > Sent: June-12-14 3:47 PM > To: Steve Baillargeon; Christofer Flinta > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 > > Hi Steve, > > my "asymmetric streams" should read as "streams with asymmetric packet sizes in a two-way architecture". Please correct me if I'm wrong: my understanding of Christopher's proposal is that streams in the forward path which trigger streams of distinct packet size in the reverse path should be optional. > The targeted measurement methodology/process appears to share some main traits with some earlier, rather theoretical work I've done in another context [1]. Therein, as part of a feasibility study, we also change characteristics of forward link measurement streams in the reflecting node to infer on accurate forward and reverse link one-way delay. > Seconded by findings in the 2330-update draft (in particular when thinking of distinct reactive/on-demand capacity allocation policies of forward/reverse measurement path) the ability to trigger distinct packet sizes in a two-way architecture's reverse link (for UDP) seems to me to make sufficient sense to justify more than an "Optional". > > [1]: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=6553584 > > br > Joachim > > On 12.06.2014 18:08, Steve Baillargeon wrote: >> Hi Joachim >> Christofer did not say asymmetry is not needed. He is saying that both asymmetry and symmetry are valid use cases for active and passive bitrate measurements in two-way architecture. I prefer we use the new proposed text since it satisfies all. >> >> -Steve >> >> >> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joachim Fabini >> Sent: June-12-14 11:11 AM >> To: Christofer Flinta >> Cc: ippm@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-05 >> >> Hi Christofer, >> I'd rather stay with the current wording and requirement. Main app-layer protocols (sip, H.323, etc) are prepared to handle asymmetric streams (i.e. distinct codecs for forward and backward path) on top of UDP. We have asymmetric networks in the access and I can envision many scenarios which require asymmetry for UDP, too (unidirectional video streaming with some RTCP feedback, video-on-demand with feedback channel, asymmetric video with high res in downlink and low res in uplink, even CBR voice with distinct codecs in uplink and downlink might become reality sooner than expected with upcoming VoLTE). >> So I'd favour to extend and be more specific with respect to the text which discusses use cases, but leave the requirement as-is. >> regards Joachim >> >> Am 12.06.2014 um 16:00 schrieb Christofer Flinta >: >> Hi IPPM group, >> >> I have a comment on the rate-problem draft. >> >> I fully agree that asymmetrical packet size can be an important feature for rate measurements. However, I don’t find it necessary to have it mandatory for all types of measurements, as specified in section 5: >> >> “The ability to control packet size on the tested path and enable >> asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture are >> REQUIRED. This allows both the conventional symmetric packet size >> testing and asymmetrical packet size testing to employed to solve >> various aspects of rate measurement: real-time communications often >> have symmetrical streams, while file transfers have highly >> asymmetrical streams in the data and acknowledgement traffic >> directions.” >> >> In this paragraph the requirement on asymmetrical packet size is supported by two examples: real-time communications and file transfer. However, the text states that real-time communications are often symmetrical, while file transfer is asymmetrical (because of TCP ACKs). This means that the need for the asymmetrical size is actually mainly for TCP test streams, while most UDP test streams will use symmetrical size. >> >> Therefore, I think asymmetrical size should be mandatory only for TCP test streams and optional for UDP test streams. I suggest changing the first part of the paragraph to: >> >> “The ability to control packet size on the tested path is REQUIRED. Asymmetrical packet size testing in a two-way architecture is REQUIRED for TCP test streams and OPTIONAL for UDP test streams.” >> >> BR, >> Christofer >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ippm mailing list >> ippm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >> > > From nobody Thu Jun 19 08:23:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3694E1A0281; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 08:23:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rK5mi0ikpgMV; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 08:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF77A1A0271; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 08:23:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.5.0.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140619152352.3276.79615.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 08:23:52 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/CKXQQiK_GPcL9v6vdkMPhAIww3A Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-04.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 15:23:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Reference Path and Measurement Points for LMAP Authors : Marcelo Bagnulo Trevor Burbridge Sam Crawford Phil Eardley Al Morton Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-04.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2014-06-19 Abstract: This document defines a reference path for Large-scale Measurement of Broadband Access Performance (LMAP) and measurement points for commonly used performance metrics. The methods for measurement point location may be applicable to similar measurement projects using the extensions described here. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jun 19 09:20:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C887C1A02B2 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 09:20:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id unUY__I4I31p for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 09:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-red.research.att.com (mail-red.research.att.com [204.178.8.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7851A006E for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 09:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (unknown [135.207.178.11]) by mail-red.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE325554B44 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 12:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com (unknown [135.207.255.243]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EAE6EF6A4 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 12:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NJFPSRVEXG8.research.att.com ([fe80::cdea:b3f6:3efa:1841]) by njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com ([fe80::cdea:b3f6:3efa:1841%13]) with mapi; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 12:20:39 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: "ippm@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 12:20:37 -0400 Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-04.txt Thread-Index: Ac+L0onGMcgBKfMBTWuwql56KW9gLAAB0oow Message-ID: <2845723087023D4CB5114223779FA9C801896A810A@njfpsrvexg8.research.att.com> References: <20140619152352.3276.79615.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140619152352.3276.79615.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/gaWs3YjrfeRwwcPzErLHV7DT6xI Subject: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-04.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 16:20:41 -0000 This version addresses the comments received=20 on and off list, and fixes a nits-checker error that emerged with the new text in 03 (2119 key words had not been used before that version,=20 so there was no ref or boilerplate). > -----Original Message----- > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:24 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-04.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of > the IETF. >=20 > Title : A Reference Path and Measurement Points for LMA= P > Authors : Marcelo Bagnulo > Trevor Burbridge > Sam Crawford > Phil Eardley > Al Morton > Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-04.txt > Pages : 14 > Date : 2014-06-19 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines a reference path for Large-scale Measurement of > Broadband Access Performance (LMAP) and measurement points for > commonly used performance metrics. The methods for measurement point > location may be applicable to similar measurement projects using the > extensions described here. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-04 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-04 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Tue Jun 24 07:17:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65C7F1B291E for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 07:17:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0T-wuuS4d7Hx for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 07:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trammell.ch (trammell1.nine.ch [5.148.172.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF561B291F for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 07:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pb-10243.ethz.ch (pb-10243.ethz.ch [82.130.102.152]) by trammell.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DDB8D1A063B for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:17:14 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D9773DC4-9DA2-449E-8399-FC3119653C1D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) From: Brian Trammell In-Reply-To: <47EC9EAE-25A9-4E0F-B5F9-10593A4DDD0C@trammell.ch> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:17:18 +0200 Message-Id: References: <20140529194155.17884.67924.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <47EC9EAE-25A9-4E0F-B5F9-10593A4DDD0C@trammell.ch> To: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/YGtvnKnL3PoOes8sMQusgFhCUK8 Subject: [ippm] Calls for adoption as WG items X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:17:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D9773DC4-9DA2-449E-8399-FC3119653C1D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Greetings, IPPM, This is a call for adoption for four new milestones under the current = IPPM charter. (1) Submit a draft updating RFC2679 based on testing and implementation=20= experience (RFC 6808) to the IESG as Proposed Standard (under consideration for this milestone is = draft-morton-ippm-2679-bis-04) (2) Submit a draft updating RFC2680 based on testing and implementation=20= experience (draft-ietf-ippm-testplan-rfc2680-05) to the IESG as=20 Proposed Standard (under consideration for this milestone is = draft-morton-ippm-2679-bis-04) (3) Submit a draft adding DSCP and ECN monitoring to TWAMP to the=20 IESG as Proposed Standard (under consideration for this milestone is = draft-hedin-ippm-type-p-monitor-03) (4) Submit a draft adding a UDP Checksum Trailer to OWAMP and TWAMP to = the IESG=20 as Informational (under consideration for this milestone is = draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer-00) For each draft, please indicate the following to the list at = ippm@ietf.org (a) whether you support the addition of the milestone and the adoption = of the draft as a WG item to fulfill that milestone (b) whether you have read the draft (c) whether you pledge to review the draft during the WG process. This call for adoption will last until Thursday 10 July 2014. Many thanks, best regards, Brian On 02 Jun 2014, at 18:07, Brian Trammell wrote: > Greetings, IPPM, >=20 > Thanks and congratulations to the authors on the approval of our first = draft from the "new" (March 2013) charter! >=20 > As we're moving forward in our charter, it's time to consider adopting = new drafts. >=20 > I've seen implicit requests for a call for adoption for the following = two drafts, which were not adopted in Orlando because we wanted to see = if 2330-update would change their scope significantly: >=20 > draft-morton-ippm-2679-bis-04 > draft-morton-ippm-2680-bis-02 >=20 > We have at least one explicit request for a call for adoption: >=20 > draft-hedin-ippm-type-p-monitor-03 >=20 > If there are other documents which you would like to have considered = for adoption as IPPM WG items in the next round under the present = charter, please notify the chairs at ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org by = Friday, June 6th; we'll run the call for adoption after that. >=20 > Thanks, cheers, >=20 > Brian (as chair) >=20 >=20 > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >> From: The IESG >> Subject: Document Action: 'Advanced Stream and Sampling Framework for = IPPM' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-ippm-2330-update-05.txt) >> Date: 29 May 2014 21:41:55 GMT+2 >> Resent-To: bill@wjcerveny.com, ietf@trammell.ch, >> To: IETF-Announce >> Cc: RFC Editor , ippm mailing list = , ippm chair >>=20 >> The IESG has approved the following document: >> - 'Advanced Stream and Sampling Framework for IPPM' >> (draft-ietf-ippm-2330-update-05.txt) as Informational RFC >>=20 >> This document is the product of the IP Performance Metrics Working = Group. >>=20 >> The IESG contact persons are Spencer Dawkins and Martin Stiemerling. >>=20 >> A URL of this Internet Draft is: >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-update/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Technical Summary >>=20 >> To obtain repeatable results in modern networks, test descriptions=20= >> need an expanded stream parameter framework that also augments=20 >> aspects specified as Type-P for test packets. This memo updates >> the IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) Framework, RFC 2330, with=20 >> advanced considerations for measurement methodology and testing. =20 >> The existing framework mostly assumes deterministic connectivity,=20 >> and that a single test stream will represent the characteristics of = the=20 >> path when it is aggregated with other flows. Networks have evolved=20= >> and test stream descriptions must evolve with them, otherwise=20 >> unexpected network features may dominate the measured performance. =20= >> This memo describes new stream parameters for both network=20 >> characterization and support of application design using IPPM = metrics. >>=20 >> Working Group Summary >>=20 >> This draft was first introduced to the working group in October = 2012.=20 >> Support for the draft was indicated at meetings with no dissent. >>=20 >> Document Quality >>=20 >> As an update to the IPPM Framework, this document adds=20 >> new and updated considerations for stream parameters. >>=20 >> The document shepherd reviewed the document as a =93-02=94=20 >> draft and reviewed the changes which constitute =93-03=94 and =93-04=94= . >>=20 >> As documented, other topics in the IPPM Framework which=20 >> might be updated or augmented are deferred to future work. This=20 >> includes the topics of passive and various forms of of hybrid=20 >> active/passive measurements. >>=20 >> Personnel >>=20 >> The document shepherd was Bill Cerveny. The responsible=20 >> area director is Spencer Dawkins. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail=_D9773DC4-9DA2-449E-8399-FC3119653C1D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTqYhuAAoJENt3nsOmbNJcqgYIALnN4qQUr58OOBLbb5FwZWHX SeQIZCDJ6X3XFzcup0LEbgm/rot3CTPnVF/c+qmPnQJ+BUoH8dz1X44jLy6uCzKn rbMJQWhn8KtQTI7TegraRFjuQr7bCLDkS0VNdnLdm/ZScAs0VmB1cPQI4eykFZ1e jEHm/BTSXRqF9VG8uNdAaOR86ME1TR/HdQwGGV64UDu6qKxQaD4BJOOIb56i4eLQ kHBFnpOVClhl+9obTwvV7BnsZjMHkj7Ix4G6jT/ciPNIs2MteUySmcBXigcHK6BF aU1euL5WgCh5Tr9O3JxqiPHA6NB/AdH2X1ZlptNfBHNnyN02xXBYrqmHFcg7N5Q= =NMyV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_D9773DC4-9DA2-449E-8399-FC3119653C1D-- From nobody Tue Jun 24 08:10:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58D651B2D5A for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5bKXD9j6mjYL for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trammell.ch (trammell1.nine.ch [5.148.172.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72F261B2D3F for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pb-10243.ethz.ch (pb-10243.ethz.ch [82.130.102.152]) by trammell.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D31C51A063B for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 17:09:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Brian Trammell Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3EE7EE2C-7183-4BD8-97D2-2246C440483E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 17:09:39 +0200 References: <0C7EDCF89AB9E2478B5D010026CFF4AEA10C4F1674@SBS2008.eict.local> To: ippm@ietf.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/WF8w2DkVFLkIEg40j7GYTRLJDsA Subject: [ippm] WGLC on draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 15:10:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3EE7EE2C-7183-4BD8-97D2-2246C440483E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Greetings, all, This message begins WGLC on draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03. Please send any = comments to the list (including simply "I've read the draft and support = publication") by the end of day Tuesday 8 July 2014. Thanks, cheers, Brian Begin forwarded message: > From: Kostas Pentikousis > Subject: [ippm] WG: New Version Notification for = draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03.txt > Date: 5 Jun 2014 14:01:50 GMT+2 > To: "ippm@ietf.org" , "ipsec@ietf.org" >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > We have updated the draft on "Network Performance Measurement for = IPsec" (see below). We would greatly appreciate comments from both IPPM = and IPSEC as we're heading to finalizing this work item in IPPM. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Kostas >=20 >=20 > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20 > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juni 2014 13:56 > An: Yang Cui; Emma Zhang; Emma Zhang; Yang Cui; Kostas Pentikousis; = Kostas Pentikousis > Betreff: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03.txt >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03.txt has been = successfully submitted by Kostas Pentikousis and posted to the IETF = repository. >=20 > Name: draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec > Revision: 03 > Title: Network Performance Measurement for IPsec > Document date: 2014-06-05 > Group: ippm > Pages: 12 > URL: = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec/ > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03 > Diff: = http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03 >=20 > Abstract: > The O/TWAMP security mechanism requires that both the client and > server endpoints possess a shared secret. Since the currently- > standardized O/TWAMP security mechanism only supports a pre-shared > key mode, large scale deployment of O/TWAMP is hindered > significantly. At the same time, recent trends point to wider IKEv2 > deployment which, in turn, calls for mechanisms and methods that > enable tunnel end-users, as well as operators, to measure one-way = and > two-way network performance in a standardized manner. This document > discusses the use of keys derived from an IKEv2 SA as the shared key > in O/TWAMP. If the shared key can be derived from the IKEv2 SA, O/ > TWAMP can support certificate-based key exchange, which would allow > for more operational flexibility and efficiency. The key derivation > presented in this document can also facilitate automatic key > management. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail=_3EE7EE2C-7183-4BD8-97D2-2246C440483E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTqZSzAAoJENt3nsOmbNJcoPMIAI82QvHQDtt078bAuBV9Sox6 hpFZhmWuLZMrVy96Cc1Qon8Lt6A2X/86dmzbfMrnNK16gjgHRQXmbjYZI4XIGTZq toIDyQNPsimDWyWTkSenQSei+hWGWJBuXEnaxQrzzHNksyY7bLefaOKUoOyqn2aK 3YAsxCCufUgLf6g72rGS1osF26jA8bSA3VAiLrdFBZyQ/4Qf408LXAOmLeTtcLjp QXtqG2VBVllxagaEUOepSEy/HsIY/jY6LmM9ooU9tKoiqEWgNgG4qMOo59sM6Wtw Q1FNRY1mDMFA4DY9040lxbxpP9l1B4g44QyQaddHWgJZxP9KH5x5zwVAKnCrc6s= =pHZT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_3EE7EE2C-7183-4BD8-97D2-2246C440483E-- From nobody Tue Jun 24 13:23:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EFB31B2825 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:23:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D2NvQjdz_L5z for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trammell.ch (trammell1.nine.ch [5.148.172.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B23961B2820 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.27.102] (cust-integra-122-165.antanet.ch [80.75.122.165]) by trammell.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B26FB1A0A47 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:23:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Brian Trammell Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1D43665A-9EE7-437F-8327-24F2ADCE13FA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:23:34 +0200 Message-Id: <8ACD5E5E-E072-4942-A881-F9C7454C7A6F@trammell.ch> To: ippm@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/ufOJXub6UAXKubXYHtIzVxV63vc Subject: [ippm] Call for agenda slot requests X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: "ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org Chairs" List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 20:23:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1D43665A-9EE7-437F-8327-24F2ADCE13FA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings, all, According to the tentative agenda (subject to change), we'll have a two = hour slot in Toronto, 16:40-18:40 EDT on Tuesday 22 July. I expect we'll have presentations from all present working group = documents with not yet in LC or with LC unfinished before the Toronto = document deadline; these will be: draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03 (currently in WGLC) draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics-02 (if updated before the meeting) draft-ietf-ippm-registry (as yet unsubmitted) draft-ietf-ippm-registry-active-00 draft-ietf-ippm-registry-passive-00 The following drafts will have completed call for adoption, but will not = have been updated before the meeting with respect to the outcome of = those calls for adoption; I expect we'll have a slot for each of these, = too, to continue any discussion arising from the call for adoption: draft-morton-ippm-2679-bis-04 draft-morton-ippm-2680-bis-02 draft-hedin-ippm-type-p-monitor-03 draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer-00 The following draft has been updated since London, and follow from = topics previously discussed in the WG, so I'd expect a presentation from = the authors of this draft as well: draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-00 Please send any other requests for slots to the = ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org by Tuesday 1 July. Thanks, cheers, Brian (as chair) --Apple-Mail=_1D43665A-9EE7-437F-8327-24F2ADCE13FA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTqd5GAAoJENt3nsOmbNJcCEMH/REeuMoR5Urd6qQXC6BKEOhw 8BYDOSlGWaHwKc0H19xt5NCJjvr22pODOrMCj6lgKk/FFHtfeZVIsjoibRevrapg ie099HEyREflx/8gOc70WjP4m9fFlkK50Xgy+feMCJjgn6KNEaaYgXIJMM4Tw3KX XUIjB8zJXqXmyd0P9t9lsElCU5AhUyGqWrRTVVNNAtJNVyU5hwbfOy3migJqtHwp AcmlXs+4zxxgbT2YiepcaKz0ArRE0woQcQMF9BgSKBVSj+tifdlIkGFNTmgPbffj e0At3RJIdZRwu/S/oDZr+PhR7cQpM9umjrjrk13ElKHyXhaAQxwVPrvZVYNQZJk= =PvDU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_1D43665A-9EE7-437F-8327-24F2ADCE13FA-- From nobody Tue Jun 24 14:22:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A5861B295C for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:21:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.671 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.671 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8mtuodw_1Szx for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22a.google.com (mail-ie0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89DA71B2973 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f170.google.com with SMTP id tr6so857850ieb.1 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:11:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=MzCVaGeudjaFOKAoXbWEbz//1CeSGMsmYLhWpAoaZnE=; b=Ezxy76bSu47/43L4VVYr/Rpq+nO3tOTCzNQMnxXswqp6uhNC1/JBm2GUJItP1tJMXD sW6/2+XQaLJCjy+1BbZACYaMI+EO/9cHQBFB5NvLz9NKo/yJlg1/kS0+wlZO/78KVjPE jHbP48I2qzuOYClgdrS1PKb0f0TkFuGPLzJ/SzD7oZLSr1PcboBOW0GM51bJD9BTebHd 6+N9NAJ7fbkainoW973Roye6BtCzVQEysDTMywxMt3JsChUYRZ9vCAJFKVd0/dAgz/qE TjmmAuiBz7ea+T/Dtc8LNa7OyPicl9ztxYxBPER6lLEMVrek1nUrm+zENS1goRFrSCNf qflQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=MzCVaGeudjaFOKAoXbWEbz//1CeSGMsmYLhWpAoaZnE=; b=Rnps6/13aR8tlbmXyepQCjf5b2u/N4bP195eoMDUGz1Z2hAkqsd9GKjaNc3aRyk0JG 2A/FmmfahhwRBTJKUD1O0Mky54oqML2ATEAZYm4bxcQhKcDCCBMi1AJdPBZ5+48jWmEB pHSiO33QaF5IEOCVwNWp5sOr7Izd9HaYsw7RS5E4YL1PPPHmrKIQRrEeh7WsUIldPFPF blGqmbN2ctDinwSx16Yx9SqRMDo2bVi4h2Ws6cs+0WuWSQ04/atTcN0iK+BfsmzqM34a w3lsQVVuqs9wOXmklSm/Ul4lnOYS2ltUgA7Xli/yzWs6ZVvIh51+BB/qc4TOjSzgL5BS K42Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlVw5q2xD2/auDecC51jt5YsbfcxMEH/2n/uNj8Tv37shKQ+4CyhNIayeb37yGOYiNlRHe9 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.43.66.202 with SMTP id xr10mr3284738icb.77.1403644266827; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.126.167 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:11:06 -0700 Message-ID: From: Matt Mathis To: "ippm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e7724ea89da04fc9b6570 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/ZQp4cF7GzGyw_EbrPhVJ-92TVN8 Subject: [ippm] Reactive behavior is deterministic? X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 21:21:56 -0000 --047d7b2e7724ea89da04fc9b6570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Section 1.1 of draft-ietf-ippm-2330-update-05.txt uses the word deterministic in the definition of "reactive behavior". Is the accurate for technologies in question? I am under the impression that both LTE channel switching and Comcast powerboost have at least some component of their behaviors that depend on network load. This would make some details of these technologies "nondeterministic" relative to test traffic that was uninformed about network state. Furthermore, I argue most places where reactive networks are used, the optimal design embodies load sensitive adaptation, so this is probably the common case, not the exception. I'm not sure I even know why there is a "deterministic" assumption. Does it matter elsewhere. Thanks, --MM-- The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Alan Kay Privacy matters! We know from recent events that people are using our services to speak in defiance of unjust governments. We treat privacy and security as matters of life and death, because for some users, they are. --047d7b2e7724ea89da04fc9b6570 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Section 1.1 of=C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-2330-update-05.txt use= s the word deterministic in the definition of "reactive behavior"= . =C2=A0 Is the accurate for technologies in question? =C2=A0 I am under th= e impression that both LTE channel switching and Comcast powerboost have at= least some component of their behaviors that depend on network load. =C2= =A0This would make some details of these technologies "nondeterministi= c" relative to test traffic that was uninformed about network state.
Furthermore, I argue most places where reactive networks are= used, the optimal design embodies load sensitive adaptation, so this is pr= obably the common case, not the exception.

I'm= not sure I even know why there is a "deterministic" assumption. = =C2=A0Does it matter elsewhere.

Thanks,
--MM--
= The best way to predict the future is to create it. =C2=A0- Alan Kay
Privacy matters! =C2=A0We know from recent events that people are using ou= r services to speak in defiance of unjust governments. =C2=A0 We treat priv= acy and security as matters of life and death, because for some users, they= are.
--047d7b2e7724ea89da04fc9b6570-- From nobody Tue Jun 24 15:27:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A32C1B291C for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 15:27:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WMuGNmikMbyR for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 15:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm8-vm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm8-vm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.90.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A288C1B2911 for ; 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Tue, 24 Jun 2014 15:27:31 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, R3V5cywKCldlIGhhdmUgcG9zdGVkIGEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gb2Ygb3VyIFBhc3NpdmUgRnJhbWV3b3JrIGRyYWZ0LiDCoCBQbGVhc2UgdGFrZSBhIGxvb2sgYW5kIGdpdmUgdXMgY29tbWVudHMhwqAKwqAKVGhhbmtzIHNvIG11Y2guCgpOYWxpbmkgRWxraW5zCkluc2lkZSBQcm9kdWN0cywgSW5jLgooODMxKSA2NTktODM2MAp3d3cuaW5zaWRldGhlc3RhY2suY29tCgoKLS0tLS0gRm9yd2FyZGVkIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0KRnJvbTogImludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0ABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.191.1 References: <20140624222609.22447.14397.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <1403648851.57463.YahooMailNeo@web125105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 15:27:31 -0700 From: Nalini Elkins To: IPPM IETF In-Reply-To: <20140624222609.22447.14397.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="461871616-978520638-1403648851=:57463" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/EqpUrpuGJX6l94wu7PMQVHv7ono Subject: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-01.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Nalini Elkins List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:27:35 -0000 --461871616-978520638-1403648851=:57463 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guys,=0A=0AWe have posted a new version of our Passive Framework draft. =A0= Please take a look and give us comments!=A0=0A=A0=0AThanks so much.=0A=0AN= alini Elkins=0AInside Products, Inc.=0A(831) 659-8360=0Awww.insidethestack.= com=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message -----=0AFrom: "internet-drafts@ietf.org= " =0ATo: Greg Mirsky ; Nalini Elkins ; Lianshu Zheng ; Nalini Elkins ; Greg Mir= sky ; Deng Lingli = ; Michael Ackermann ; Michael Ackermann ; Lingli Deng ; Lianshu Zhen= g =0ASent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 3:26 PM=0ASubject= : New Version Notification for draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-01.txt=0A= =0A=0A=0AA new version of I-D, draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-01.txt= =0Ahas been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the=0AIET= F repository.=0A=0AName:=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 draft-zheng-ippm-framework-pass= ive=0ARevision:=A0=A0=A0 01=0ATitle:=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 Framework for IP Pa= ssive Performance Measurements=0ADocument date:=A0=A0=A0 2014-06-24=0AGroup= :=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 Individual Submission=0APages:=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 13= =0AURL:=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zh= eng-ippm-framework-passive-01.txt=0AStatus:=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 https://datatrac= ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive/=0AHtmlized:=A0 =A0 =A0= http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-01=0ADiff:= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-zheng-ippm-fra= mework-passive-01=0A=0AAbstract:=0A=A0 This document describes the framewo= rk for passive measurement. In=0A=A0 particular, the differences between p= assive and active measurements=0A=A0 are analyzed, general considerations = for both metric definition and=0A=A0 measurement methodology are discussed= , and requirements for various=0A=A0 entities performing a given passive m= easurement task are described=0A=A0 according to a reference model.=0A=0A= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =0A=0A=0APlease note that it may take a couple of minutes f= rom the time of submission=0Auntil the htmlized version and diff are availa= ble at tools.ietf.org.=0A=0AThe IETF Secretariat --461871616-978520638-1403648851=:57463 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Guys,

We have posted a new version of our Passive Framework draft= .   Please take a look and give us comments! 
 
Thanks so much.

Nalini E= lkins
Inside Products, Inc.
(831) 659-8360
www.insidethestack.com<= br>

----- Forwarded Message -----
= From: "internet-drafts@ietf.or= g" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>; Nalini E= lkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Lianshu Zheng <vero.zhen= g@huawei.com>; Nalini Elkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; G= reg Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>; Deng Lingli <denglingli@= chinamobile.com>; Michael Ackermann <mike.ackermann@bcbsmi.com>; M= ichael Ackermann <mike.ackermann@bcbsmi.com>; Lingli Deng <denglin= gli@chinamobile.com>; Lianshu Zheng <vero.zheng@huawei.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2= 014 3:26 PM
Subject: N= ew Version Notification for draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-01.txt
<= /font>


A new version of I-D, = draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-01.txt
has been successfully submitte= d by Nalini Elkins and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: =        draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive
Revis= ion:    01
Title:        Fr= amework for IP Passive Performance Measurements
Document date: &nbs= p;  2014-06-24
Group:        Individu= al Submission
Pages:        13
URL:&nbs= p;           http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zheng-ippm-fra= mework-passive-01.txt
Status:        https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zheng-ippm-framework-p= assive/
Htmlized:      http://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-01
Diff:  =         http://www.ietf.or= g/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-zheng-ippm-framework-passive-01

Abstract:=
  This document describes the framework for passive measurement. = In
  particular, the differences between passive and active measur= ements
  are analyzed, general considerations for both metric defi= nition and
  measurement methodology are discussed, and requirements for= various
  entities performing a given passive measurement task ar= e described
  according to a reference model.

   =                     &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;                     =              


Please note th= at it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the= htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF= Secretariat



--461871616-978520638-1403648851=:57463-- From nobody Wed Jun 25 09:57:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A821B2A10 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 09:56:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fD5WzWoC6dIs for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 09:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CB861B2A9E for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 09:56:41 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79df6d000002de0-4e-53aaab4c5bea Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 4A.DE.11744.C4BAAA35; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:58:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:56:32 -0400 From: Steve Baillargeon To: Brian Trammell , "ippm@ietf.org" , "k.pentikousis@eict.de" Thread-Topic: [ippm] WGLC on draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03 Thread-Index: AQHPj75vWlG8gyCu9kGHnYCBaKiwrJuCA6fg Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:56:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0C7EDCF89AB9E2478B5D010026CFF4AEA10C4F1674@SBS2008.eict.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrPLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPlK7P6lXBBlOOG1psbHnHZtHz4B2z xZ4D+1kdmD2+/G9i8liy5CeTx5P9M1kCmKO4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mh5MvMtS0KZesXTracYG xhvyXYycHBICJhITJ35lg7DFJC7cWw9kc3EICRxllNhyso8JJCEksJxR4vveSBCbTcBCYv3c ZcwgtohApcSXt0vYQWxhoEEf595ngYibSuw9MJkdwjaSaFjXBTaHRUBV4v2T52DLeAV8JX6+ vMQKsayBUWLirSawZk4Be4l/PcvAmhkFZCV2n70O1swsIC5x68l8JohLBSSW7DnPDGGLSrx8 /I8VwlaSmLT0HCtEvZ7EjalT2CBsbYllC18zQywWlDg58wnLBEbRWUjGzkLSMgtJyywkLQsY WVYxcpQWp5blphsZbmIExsgxCTbHHYwLPlkeYhTgYFTi4V0wd1WwEGtiWXFl7iFGaQ4WJXFe zep5wUIC6YklqdmpqQWpRfFFpTmpxYcYmTg4pRoYJfemKU8R+vFlcwv/4ek3/3xWbw1oSbAP +hHFYvhs2SfVnztvrWOvDbbc1fqr7p2swbLI7euvRrdsvJgny3ny3dFD6Tyz4mY8+fiiR3Je mbVSesvjPVkSlWs3PLB3tbTuZj5dJTdr/Z7Q5JsHhLvC1YUOnjRRmRSck5C0Sbn148Msbe8q tV9+SizFGYmGWsxFxYkAU3Qj6HICAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/_UnYRT5aDsUKFvw5sgwyVj_jvT4 Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC on draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:56:54 -0000 Hi Kosta, Hi Brian I support with the following comments: - The tile of the draft is misleading. It should say something like O/TWAMP= Shared Secret Key Feature - The use case in section 1 is not clear. It should indicate this mode is i= ntended for protecting and exchanging OWAMP/TWAMP test protocol between two= IKEv2 systems when OWAMP/TWAMP control/test traffic is not protected by IP= Sec=20 - I personally think the most common case is to protect OWAMP/TWAMP control= /test traffic with IPsec. It is important to highlight the benefits associa= ted with this new mode versus the common unauthenticated O/TWAMP mode prote= cted via AH or ESP. - in section 4.1 first sentence, the requirement level is ambiguous. I thin= k it should say...the shared secret MUST be derived ...(as opposed to can).= Same comment for the second paragraph, the word if should be replaced by w= hen. - end of section 4.1, the expected behavior when the IKEv2 SA is rekeyed is= not clear. Same is true when the IKEv2 SA is deleted for whatever reasons.= What should the O/TWAMP part of the IKE system do when the IKE SA is reke= yed or deleted? Should it close its test sessions and setup new test sessio= ns using the key associated with the newly established IKEv2 SA? Waiting fo= r the lifetime to expire does not make sense. And if you do, what happens n= ext? - section 4.2. Three (3) new TWAMP modes are not needed. One TWAMP mode cal= led Shared Secret Key should be sufficient. This mode can then be used on c= onjunction with the authenticated, encrypted and mixed modes. Please do not= use the X mode over IKEv2. The text "over" is always misleading. Regards Steve Baillargeon Ericsson -----Original Message----- From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Trammell Sent: June-24-14 11:10 AM To: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] WGLC on draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03 Greetings, all, This message begins WGLC on draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03. Please send any comme= nts to the list (including simply "I've read the draft and support publicat= ion") by the end of day Tuesday 8 July 2014. Thanks, cheers, Brian Begin forwarded message: > From: Kostas Pentikousis > Subject: [ippm] WG: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03= .txt > Date: 5 Jun 2014 14:01:50 GMT+2 > To: "ippm@ietf.org" , "ipsec@ietf.org" >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > We have updated the draft on "Network Performance Measurement for IPsec" = (see below). We would greatly appreciate comments from both IPPM and IPSEC = as we're heading to finalizing this work item in IPPM. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Kostas >=20 >=20 > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20 > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juni 2014 13:56 > An: Yang Cui; Emma Zhang; Emma Zhang; Yang Cui; Kostas Pentikousis; Kosta= s Pentikousis > Betreff: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03.txt >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03.txt has been successfully = submitted by Kostas Pentikousis and posted to the IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec > Revision: 03 > Title: Network Performance Measurement for IPsec > Document date: 2014-06-05 > Group: ippm > Pages: 12 > URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec= -03.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec/ > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-03 > Diff: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-= 03 >=20 > Abstract: > The O/TWAMP security mechanism requires that both the client and > server endpoints possess a shared secret. Since the currently- > standardized O/TWAMP security mechanism only supports a pre-shared > key mode, large scale deployment of O/TWAMP is hindered > significantly. At the same time, recent trends point to wider IKEv2 > deployment which, in turn, calls for mechanisms and methods that > enable tunnel end-users, as well as operators, to measure one-way and > two-way network performance in a standardized manner. This document > discusses the use of keys derived from an IKEv2 SA as the shared key > in O/TWAMP. If the shared key can be derived from the IKEv2 SA, O/ > TWAMP can support certificate-based key exchange, which would allow > for more operational flexibility and efficiency. The key derivation > presented in this document can also facilitate automatic key > management. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From nobody Wed Jun 25 23:42:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F961B2F24; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:42:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FanskRIhO8wq; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE8F1B2AD2; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:42:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.5.0.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140626064231.5255.57694.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:42:31 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/Dmv3kuq2fuy2dm6RnWoBLY2e2vY Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer-01.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 06:42:33 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : UDP Checksum Trailer in OWAMP and TWAMP Author : Tal Mizrahi Filename : draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer-01.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2014-06-25 Abstract: The One-Way Active Measurement Protocol (OWAMP) and the Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) are used for performance monitoring in IP networks. Delay measurement is performed in these protocols by using timestamped test packets. Some implementations use hardware-based timestamping engines that integrate the accurate transmission timestamp into every outgoing OWAMP/TWAMP test packet during transmission. Since these packets are transported over UDP, the UDP checksum field is then updated to reflect this modification. This document proposes to use the last 2 octets of every test packet as a Checksum Trailer, allowing timestamping engines to reflect the checksum modification in the last 2 octets rather than in the UDP checksum field. The behavior defined in this document is completely interoperable with existing OWAMP/TWAMP implementations. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jun 25 23:43:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4DB1B2F33 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:43:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.266 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j-IJ5sv-aUSG for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-0016f401.pphosted.com (mx0a-0016f401.pphosted.com [67.231.148.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 197AD1B2AD0 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0045849.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-0016f401.pphosted.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id s5Q6ghc8013162; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:42:59 -0700 Received: from sc-owa04.marvell.com ([199.233.58.150]) by mx0a-0016f401.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 1mqfndnx4f-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:42:59 -0700 Received: from YK-HUB02.marvell.com (10.4.102.52) by SC-OWA04.marvell.com (10.93.76.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.327.1; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:42:59 -0700 Received: from IL-MB01.marvell.com ([10.4.102.53]) by YK-HUB02.marvell.com ([10.4.102.52]) with mapi; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 09:42:56 +0300 From: Tal Mizrahi To: "ippm@ietf.org" , "ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org Chairs (ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org)" Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 09:42:54 +0300 Thread-Topic: Updated draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer-01 Thread-Index: Ac+RBG2c8S012845RP+aKaJejiPIxw== Message-ID: <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01E731F0231E@IL-MB01.marvell.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01E731F0231EILMB01marve_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.12.52, 1.0.14, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-06-26_03:2014-06-25,2014-06-26,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1402240000 definitions=main-1406260084 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/v_JqllsMBM5Pdgb379J6r9WgNOU Subject: [ippm] Updated draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer-01 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 06:43:05 -0000 --_000_74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01E731F0231EILMB01marve_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Posted an updated draft to avoid expiration. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer-01 No changes since the last draft. Thanks, Tal Mizrahi. --_000_74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01E731F0231EILMB01marve_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

Posted an = updated draft to avoid expiration.

ht= tp://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mizrahi-ippm-checksum-trailer-01

No changes since the last draft.

=

 

Thanks,=

Tal Mizrahi.

 

= --_000_74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01E731F0231EILMB01marve_--