
From nobody Sun Feb  1 09:42:25 2015
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: [ippm] Adrian Farrel's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have no objection to the publication of this document, but I did
have one observation:


Although section 2 has discussion of the variation of a number of
fields and specifically includes...

   o  Transport protocol (e.g. where TCP packets may be routed
      differently from UDP)

...I was surprised to find no mention of ECMP and the consequences that
it may introduce for the reliability of rate measurement figures.



From nobody Sun Feb  1 13:24:31 2015
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From nobody Mon Feb  2 03:24:46 2015
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In the whole draft there are several cases where IPsec is spelled
incorrectly (IPSec). 

--

In section 5.3 there is text saying:

   The Security Parameter Index (SPI)(see [RFC4301] [RFC7296]) can
   uniquely identify the Security Association (SA).  If the client
   supports the derivation of shared secret key from IKEv2 SA, it will
   choose the corresponding mode value and carry SPIi and SPIr in the
   Key ID field.  SPIi and SPIr MUST be included in the Key ID field of
   Set-Up-Response Message to indicate the IKEv2 SA from which the O/
   TWAMP shared secret key derived from.  The length of SPI is 4 octets.
   	 	       	   	   	      	     	       ^
   Therefore, the first 4 octets of Key ID field MUST carry SPIi and the
   	      	  	^
   second 4 octets MUST carry SPIr.  The remaining bits of the Key ID
   	  ^
   field MUST set to zero.

This is wrong. The SPIi and SPIr in the IKEv2 SA are 8 octets each.
The ESP and AH SPI is 4 octets, for IKEv2 SA it is 8+8. Also in the
next paragraph it should say "first 16 octets" not "first 8 octets".

--

In section 5.4 you there is text:

							    ... If
   the two endpoints are already connected through an IPSec tunnel it
   is RECOMMENDED that the O/TWAMP measurement packets are forwarded
   over the IPSec tunnel if the peers choose the unauthenticated mode
   in order to ensure authenticity and security.

Part of the IPsec architecture model specifies policy rules which
dictate which packets go to the tunnel and which do not. This text
above seems to indicate that someone else than the policy rules could
say that those O/TWAMP measurement packets might ignore those policy
rules and go out bypassing those rules.

I think it would be better to rewrite the text above to reflect that
the IPsec policy model is followed with those packets just as for any
other packets. I.e. the normal case would be that IPsec policy rules
will specify whether the measurement packets go to the tunnel or not.
If I understand correctly that this text tries to say that IPsec
tunnel should be configured so that it SHOULD include O/TWAMP
measurement packets, even when using unauthenticated mode, to ensure
authenticity and security.
-- 
kivinen@iki.fi


From nobody Tue Feb  3 09:07:37 2015
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IANA review state changed to IANA - Not OK
ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec/


From nobody Wed Feb  4 06:22:32 2015
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Subject: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: No Objection

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http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


- I'm not clear why it's a good plan for this document to
state a bunch of MUST level requirements on protocol
specifications, but I assume if that were problematic then
this informational document would be ignored and if it's not
a problem that's fine:-). Including that kind of thing can
lead to unnecessary arguments though so I wondered. For
example, on page 8 it (I think) says that protocols MUST
allow for control (by whom?) of payload lengths, which is not
something I see in typical speed test tools that'd be used by
massive numbers of users, or at least that's not exposed via
a UI that I can see.

- section 6: surely this needs to note the problem that there
can be privacy issues with (esp. multiple uses) of
measurement - e.g. if I use my phone in different places to
do similar measurements I may be open to some new forms of
tracking. Why not note this? Why is there no "MUST NOT"
requirement from this?  (Assuming you stick with including
such.) RFC2330 does recognise privacy for example, so why not
here too? BTW I don't think I see privacy issues considered
in 4656 or 5357, but I only had a very quick look. (This
would be a DISCUSS from me if this were a protocol document,
but I'm ok to just leave it as a comment on one like this.)



From nobody Wed Feb  4 06:45:57 2015
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From: "Brian Haberman" <brian@innovationslab.net>
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Subject: [ippm] Brian Haberman's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Brian Haberman has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Stephen's observations about the use of 2119 keywords in
this type of document.



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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 10:40:31 -0500
Thread-Topic: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Stephen,
replies below,
Al

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Farrell
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:22 AM
> To: The IESG
> Cc: ietf@wjcerveny.com; draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org;
> ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
> Subject: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-
> problem-09: (with COMMENT)
>=20
> Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: No Objection
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
> - I'm not clear why it's a good plan for this document to
> state a bunch of MUST level requirements on protocol
> specifications, but I assume if that were problematic then
> this informational document would be ignored and if it's not
> a problem that's fine:-). Including that kind of thing can
> lead to unnecessary arguments though so I wondered. For
> example, on page 8 it (I think) says that protocols MUST
> allow for control (by whom?) of payload lengths, which is not
> something I see in typical speed test tools that'd be used by
> massive numbers of users, or at least that's not exposed via
> a UI that I can see.

That's exactly right, deployment of speed-test for the masses
necessarily protects users from the details. Nothing precludes
developing a test protocol controlled via CLI on both ends.
"whom" is the person or script or configuration providing
run-time parameters to the controlling host - the test protocol
has to respond to the config/request and possibly negotiate with the
far-end to achieve agreement. These are requirements on protocol
features, applicable to several different test/control protocols.

>=20
> - section 6: surely this needs to note the problem that there
> can be privacy issues with (esp. multiple uses) of
> measurement - e.g. if I use my phone in different places to
> do similar measurements I may be open to some new forms of
> tracking. Why not note this? Why is there no "MUST NOT"
> requirement from this?  (Assuming you stick with including
> such.) RFC2330 does recognise privacy for example, so why not
> here too? BTW I don't think I see privacy issues considered
> in 4656 or 5357, but I only had a very quick look. (This
> would be a DISCUSS from me if this were a protocol document,
> but I'm ok to just leave it as a comment on one like this.)

I'm inclined to start citing the Privacy Section (8) of the LMAP
Framework draft as the "best answer so far" for measurement=20
protocols.  I'll add that reference.  You're right that 4656
and 5357 pre-date Snowden and the aftermath, but so does the text
of section 6, IIRC.

I also feel that "using my phone in different places" is a matter=20
for the implementations of protocols that follow this memo, and
mostly for test methodologies that focus on the mobile environment.
But we're not there yet.  I simply suggest we put the privacy=20
considerations where they are most relevant.



From nobody Wed Feb  4 07:48:22 2015
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Al,

Those are fine responses but a bit more at the bottom,


On 04/02/15 15:40, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
> replies below,
> Al
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Farrell
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:22 AM
>> To: The IESG
>> Cc: ietf@wjcerveny.com; draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org;
>> ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
>> Subject: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-
>> problem-09: (with COMMENT)
>>
>> Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for
>> draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: No Objection
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> - I'm not clear why it's a good plan for this document to
>> state a bunch of MUST level requirements on protocol
>> specifications, but I assume if that were problematic then
>> this informational document would be ignored and if it's not
>> a problem that's fine:-). Including that kind of thing can
>> lead to unnecessary arguments though so I wondered. For
>> example, on page 8 it (I think) says that protocols MUST
>> allow for control (by whom?) of payload lengths, which is not
>> something I see in typical speed test tools that'd be used by
>> massive numbers of users, or at least that's not exposed via
>> a UI that I can see.
> 
> That's exactly right, deployment of speed-test for the masses
> necessarily protects users from the details. Nothing precludes
> developing a test protocol controlled via CLI on both ends.
> "whom" is the person or script or configuration providing
> run-time parameters to the controlling host - the test protocol
> has to respond to the config/request and possibly negotiate with the
> far-end to achieve agreement. These are requirements on protocol
> features, applicable to several different test/control protocols.
> 
>>
>> - section 6: surely this needs to note the problem that there
>> can be privacy issues with (esp. multiple uses) of
>> measurement - e.g. if I use my phone in different places to
>> do similar measurements I may be open to some new forms of
>> tracking. Why not note this? Why is there no "MUST NOT"
>> requirement from this?  (Assuming you stick with including
>> such.) RFC2330 does recognise privacy for example, so why not
>> here too? BTW I don't think I see privacy issues considered
>> in 4656 or 5357, but I only had a very quick look. (This
>> would be a DISCUSS from me if this were a protocol document,
>> but I'm ok to just leave it as a comment on one like this.)
> 
> I'm inclined to start citing the Privacy Section (8) of the LMAP
> Framework draft as the "best answer so far" for measurement 
> protocols.  I'll add that reference.  You're right that 4656
> and 5357 pre-date Snowden and the aftermath, but so does the text
> of section 6, IIRC.

So I don't know if that'd hold you up or not, but if it would,
and you'd prefer to not be held up then as an alternative you
could just say that protocols in this space need to properly
consider privacy. But your call.

> 
> I also feel that "using my phone in different places" is a matter 
> for the implementations of protocols that follow this memo, 

Well, not quite - there are also protocol design issues, e.g. if
a protocol adds some form of identifier that's used across more
than one invocation. A protocol that did not do that would be
more likely to allow for more privacy friendly implementation.

But yes, the implementation or deployment of even a well
designed (from the privacy POV) protocol could make things
worse.

> and
> mostly for test methodologies that focus on the mobile environment.
> But we're not there yet.  I simply suggest we put the privacy 
> considerations where they are most relevant.

I'm fine with that (and that's exactly why this wasn't a blocking
DISCUSS). OTOH, there's also no harm in noting the issues here too
esp since as you correctly say those weren't considered that big a
deal when the RFCs that are referred to here were written.

Cheers,
S.

> 
> 


From nobody Wed Feb  4 12:21:29 2015
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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: Gunter Van De Velde <guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com>, "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>
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I am happy with the resolution of the OPS-DIR comments in draft-ietf-ippm-r=
ate-problem-09.

Thanks and regards,

Dan


From: Gunter Van De Velde [mailto:guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com]




For telechat 2015-02-05



Reviewer                 LC end     Draft

Dan Romascanu          TR2014-12-22 draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I am happy with the resol=
ution of the OPS-DIR comments in
</span>draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks and regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
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4.0pt">
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0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Gunter V=
an De Velde [mailto:guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com]
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"mso-element:para-border-div;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;pad=
ding:10.0pt 10.0pt 10.0pt 10.0pt;background:#F0F0F0">
<pre style=3D"mso-line-height-alt:9.75pt;background:#F0F0F0;border:none;pad=
ding:0cm"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"mso-line-height-alt:9.75pt;background:#F0F0F0;border:none;pad=
ding:0cm">For telechat 2015-02-05<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"mso-line-height-alt:9.75pt;background:#F0F0F0;border:none;pad=
ding:0cm"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"mso-line-height-alt:9.75pt;background:#F0F0F0;border:none;pad=
ding:0cm">Reviewer&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LC end&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Draf=
t<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"mso-line-height-alt:9.75pt;background:#F0F0F0;border:none;pad=
ding:0cm">Dan Romascanu&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; TR2014-12-22 draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
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</body>
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--_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C981AFCAZFFEXMB04globa_--


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To: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 19:52:03 -0500
Thread-Topic: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: [ippm] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6038 (4258)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6038,
"Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6038&eid=4258

--------------------------------------
Type: Editorial
Reported by: Huck Zhao <Huck.Zhao@alcatel-lucent.com>

Section: 4.3

Original Text
-------------
Last bulletin on Page 8:
Section 4.1.2 defines...

Corrected Text
--------------
Section 5.1.2 defines...

Notes
-----


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-------------
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use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
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can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC6038 (draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-reflect-octets-09)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features
Publication Date    : October 2010
Author(s)           : A. Morton, L. Ciavattone
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : IP Performance Metrics
Area                : Transport
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
To: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "CIAVATTONE, LEN" <lc9892@att.com>, "spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com" <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>, "mls.ietf@gmail.com" <mls.ietf@gmail.com>, "ietf@trammell.ch" <ietf@trammell.ch>, "ietf@wjcerveny.com" <ietf@wjcerveny.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 21:32:51 -0500
Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6038 (4258)
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Subject: Re: [ippm] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6038 (4258)
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Agree, this was caused when the Requirements language was inserted
as a new section, and later section number not incremented.

Al

> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFC Errata System [mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:11 PM
> To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL); CIAVATTONE, LEN; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com=
;
> mls.ietf@gmail.com; ietf@trammell.ch; ietf@wjcerveny.com
> Cc: Huck.Zhao@alcatel-lucent.com; ippm@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.or=
g
> Subject: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6038 (4258)
>=20
> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6038,
> "Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and
> Symmetrical Size Features".
>=20
> --------------------------------------
> You may review the report below and at:
> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6038&eid=3D4258
>=20
> --------------------------------------
> Type: Editorial
> Reported by: Huck Zhao <Huck.Zhao@alcatel-lucent.com>
>=20
> Section: 4.3
>=20
> Original Text
> -------------
> Last bulletin on Page 8:
> Section 4.1.2 defines...
>=20
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> Section 5.1.2 defines...
>=20
> Notes
> -----
>=20
>=20
> Instructions:
> -------------
> This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>=20
> --------------------------------------
> RFC6038 (draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-reflect-octets-09)
> --------------------------------------
> Title               : Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect
> Octets and Symmetrical Size Features
> Publication Date    : October 2010
> Author(s)           : A. Morton, L. Ciavattone
> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
> Source              : IP Performance Metrics
> Area                : Transport
> Stream              : IETF
> Verifying Party     : IESG


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Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, Huck.Zhao@alcatel-lucent.com, ippm@ietf.org
Subject: [ippm] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6038 (4259)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6038,
"Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6038&eid=4259

--------------------------------------
Type: Editorial
Reported by: Huck Zhao <Huck.Zhao@alcatel-lucent.com>

Section: 5.2

Original Text
-------------
o  Symmetrical Size mode: The Session-Reflector MUST operate using
      the Session_Reflector Packet Format defined in Section 5.1.4,
      where the Padding Octets are separated from the information
      fields.

Section 5.1.4 defines Session_Sender Packet Format.

Corrected Text
--------------
o  Symmetrical Size mode: The Session-Reflector MUST operate using
      the Session_Sender Packet Format defined in Section 5.1.4,
      where the Padding Octets are separated from the information
      fields.

Notes
-----


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--------------------------------------
RFC6038 (draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-reflect-octets-09)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features
Publication Date    : October 2010
Author(s)           : A. Morton, L. Ciavattone
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : IP Performance Metrics
Area                : Transport
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, Huck.Zhao@alcatel-lucent.com, ippm@ietf.org
Subject: [ippm] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6038 (4260)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6038,
"Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6038&eid=4260

--------------------------------------
Type: Editorial
Reported by: Huck Zhao <Huck.Zhao@alcatel-lucent.com>

Section: 5.2.1

Original Text
-------------
   ... When the Reflect Octets mode is selected, the
   Session-Sender SHALL use the following TWAMP-Test Packet Format in
   Unauthenticated mode:

It should be Session-Reflector that SHALL use the following format.

Corrected Text
--------------
   ... When the Reflect Octets mode is selected, the
   Session-Reflector SHALL use the following TWAMP-Test Packet Format in
   Unauthenticated mode:

Notes
-----


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--------------------------------------
RFC6038 (draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-reflect-octets-09)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features
Publication Date    : October 2010
Author(s)           : A. Morton, L. Ciavattone
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : IP Performance Metrics
Area                : Transport
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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Subject: [ippm] [IANA #805766] Last Call: <draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-08.txt> (IKEv2-based Shared Secret Key for O/TWAMP) to Proposed Standard
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(BEGIN IANA LAST CALL COMMENTS)

IESG/Authors/WG Chairs:

IANA has reviewed draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-08.  Authors should review the comments and/or questions below.  Please report any inaccuracies and respond to any questions as soon as possible.

IANA has some questions about the IANA action requested by this draft.

We received the following comments/questions from the IANA's reviewer:

IANA understands that, upon approval of this document, there is a single action which must be completed.

In the TWAMP-Modes subregistry of the Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Parameters registry located at:

https://www.iana.org/assignments/twamp-parameters/

a single new value is to be registered as follows:

Value: TBD
Description: IKEv2Derived Mode Capability
Semantics definition: Section 5.2, bit position 7
Reference: [ RFC-to-be ]

IANA understands that value 128 is being requested.

Question: A place holder 'TBD' is used in section 5.3:

5.3.  Set-Up-Response Update

   The Set-Up-Response Message should be updated as in Figure 3.  When a
   O/TWAMP client compatible with this specification receives a Server
   Greeting indicating support for Mode IKEv2Derived it SHOULD reply to
   the O/TWAMP server with a Set-Up response that indicates so.  For
   example, a compatible O/TWAMP client choosing the authenticated mode
   with IKEv2 shared secret key derivation should set Mode to 130, i.e.
   set the bits in positions 1 and 7 (TBD IANA) to one.

Q1. Have the authors decided to use value 128 as documented in the IANA 
Considerations (IC) section?

Q2. Section 5.3 said "set the bits in positions 1 and 7".  However, the IC 
mentions only position 7.  Are the authors requesting another value for 
position 1 for the place holder TBD?

IANA understands that this is the only action required to be completed upon approval of this document.

Note:  The actions requested in this document will not be completed until the document has been approved for publication as an RFC. This message is only to confirm what actions will be performed.  

Please note that IANA cannot reserve specific values. However, early allocation is available for some types of registrations. For more information, please see RFC 7120. 

Thanks,

Pearl Liang
ICANN

(END IANA LAST CALL COMMENTS)


On Mon Jan 26 15:26:36 2015, iesg-secretary@ietf.org wrote:
> 
> The IESG has received a request from the IP Performance Metrics WG (ippm)
> to consider the following document:
> - 'IKEv2-based Shared Secret Key for O/TWAMP'
>   <draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-08.txt> as Proposed Standard
> 
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
> final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
> ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2015-02-09. Exceptionally, comments may be
> sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
> beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
> 
> Abstract
> 
> 
>    The O/TWAMP security mechanism requires that both the client and
>    server endpoints possess a shared secret.  Since the currently-
>    standardized O/TWAMP security mechanism only supports a pre-shared
>    key mode, large scale deployment of O/TWAMP is hindered
>    significantly.  At the same time, recent trends point to wider IKEv2
>    deployment which, in turn, calls for mechanisms and methods that
>    enable tunnel end-users, as well as operators, to measure one-way and
>    two- way network performance in a standardized manner.  This document
>    describes the use of keys derived from an IKEv2 SA as the shared key
>    in O/TWAMP.  If the shared key can be derived from the IKEv2 SA, O/
>    TWAMP can support certificate-based key exchange, which would allow
>    for more operational flexibility and efficiency.  The key derivation
>    presented in this document can also facilitate automatic key
>    management.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file can be obtained via
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec/
> 
> IESG discussion can be tracked via
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec/ballot/
> 
> 
> No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.
> 
> 



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Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 18:36:57 -0500
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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Al and Stephen,

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:40 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acmorton@att.com> wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
> replies below,
> Al
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Farrell
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:22 AM
>> To: The IESG
>> Cc: ietf@wjcerveny.com; draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org;
>> ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
>> Subject: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-
>> problem-09: (with COMMENT)
>>
>> Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for
>> draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: No Objection
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> - I'm not clear why it's a good plan for this document to
>> state a bunch of MUST level requirements on protocol
>> specifications, but I assume if that were problematic then
>> this informational document would be ignored and if it's not
>> a problem that's fine:-). Including that kind of thing can
>> lead to unnecessary arguments though so I wondered. For
>> example, on page 8 it (I think) says that protocols MUST
>> allow for control (by whom?) of payload lengths, which is not
>> something I see in typical speed test tools that'd be used by
>> massive numbers of users, or at least that's not exposed via
>> a UI that I can see.
>
> That's exactly right, deployment of speed-test for the masses
> necessarily protects users from the details. Nothing precludes
> developing a test protocol controlled via CLI on both ends.
> "whom" is the person or script or configuration providing
> run-time parameters to the controlling host - the test protocol
> has to respond to the config/request and possibly negotiate with the
> far-end to achieve agreement. These are requirements on protocol
> features, applicable to several different test/control protocols.

I'm wondering if some rephrasing in the introduction might help with
this point.  Since I've done some testing at an ISP where I had to set
lengths and patterns for data used in performance testing and then a
few years later worked at a performance company and was involved with
testing web site access with simulated sessions, I can certainly see
the utility of this draft.

What if there was a description that this might be used as the
underlying mechanisms for simulated traffic scenarios from an
application or CLI?  Would that help clarify what this looks like to
the user described earlier in the draft?  I may be reading into it
from my own experience.

>
>>
>> - section 6: surely this needs to note the problem that there
>> can be privacy issues with (esp. multiple uses) of
>> measurement - e.g. if I use my phone in different places to
>> do similar measurements I may be open to some new forms of
>> tracking. Why not note this? Why is there no "MUST NOT"
>> requirement from this?  (Assuming you stick with including
>> such.) RFC2330 does recognise privacy for example, so why not
>> here too? BTW I don't think I see privacy issues considered
>> in 4656 or 5357, but I only had a very quick look. (This
>> would be a DISCUSS from me if this were a protocol document,
>> but I'm ok to just leave it as a comment on one like this.)
>
> I'm inclined to start citing the Privacy Section (8) of the LMAP
> Framework draft as the "best answer so far" for measurement
> protocols.  I'll add that reference.  You're right that 4656
> and 5357 pre-date Snowden and the aftermath, but so does the text
> of section 6, IIRC.

Could a statement be added to discourage the collection of identifiers
from applications or devices that use the methods described in this
draft to protect the privacy of the end user?  If the purpose is for
an end user to get the results, does to point in the network they use
for testing need to collect anything? I would think not and am making
an assumption that the model is of tools used to test speed from an
end user.  But maybe I missed something.

Thanks,
Kathleen

>
> I also feel that "using my phone in different places" is a matter
> for the implementations of protocols that follow this memo, and
> mostly for test methodologies that focus on the mobile environment.
> But we're not there yet.  I simply suggest we put the privacy
> considerations where they are most relevant.
>
>



-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen


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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
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Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, "ietf@wjcerveny.com" <ietf@wjcerveny.com>, "draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org>, "ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Al & Stephen,

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 4, 2015, at 7:52 PM, "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com> wro=
te:
>=20
> Hi Kathleen, please see below:
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kathleen Moriarty [mailto:kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 6:37 PM
>> To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
>> Cc: Stephen Farrell; The IESG; ietf@wjcerveny.com; draft-ietf-ippm-rate-
>> problem.all@tools.ietf.org; ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-
>> rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
>>=20
>> Hi Al and Stephen,
>>=20
>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:40 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acmorton@att.com>=

>> wrote:
>>> Hi Stephen,
>>> replies below,
>>> Al
>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Farrell
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:22 AM
>>>> To: The IESG
>>>> Cc: ietf@wjcerveny.com; draft-ietf-ippm-rate-
>> problem.all@tools.ietf.org;
>>>> ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-=

>>>> problem-09: (with COMMENT)
>>>>=20
>>>> Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for
>>>> draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: No Objection
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> COMMENT:
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> - I'm not clear why it's a good plan for this document to
>>>> state a bunch of MUST level requirements on protocol
>>>> specifications, but I assume if that were problematic then
>>>> this informational document would be ignored and if it's not
>>>> a problem that's fine:-). Including that kind of thing can
>>>> lead to unnecessary arguments though so I wondered. For
>>>> example, on page 8 it (I think) says that protocols MUST
>>>> allow for control (by whom?) of payload lengths, which is not
>>>> something I see in typical speed test tools that'd be used by
>>>> massive numbers of users, or at least that's not exposed via
>>>> a UI that I can see.
>>>=20
>>> That's exactly right, deployment of speed-test for the masses
>>> necessarily protects users from the details. Nothing precludes
>>> developing a test protocol controlled via CLI on both ends.
>>> "whom" is the person or script or configuration providing
>>> run-time parameters to the controlling host - the test protocol
>>> has to respond to the config/request and possibly negotiate with the
>>> far-end to achieve agreement. These are requirements on protocol
>>> features, applicable to several different test/control protocols.
>>=20
>> I'm wondering if some rephrasing in the introduction might help with
>> this point.  Since I've done some testing at an ISP where I had to set
>> lengths and patterns for data used in performance testing and then a
>> few years later worked at a performance company and was involved with
>> testing web site access with simulated sessions, I can certainly see
>> the utility of this draft.
>>=20
>> What if there was a description that this might be used as the
>> underlying mechanisms for simulated traffic scenarios from an
>> application or CLI?  Would that help clarify what this looks like to
>> the user described earlier in the draft?  I may be reading into it
>> from my own experience.
>=20
> Although the figure in the Intro identifies the users and their devices,
> it's mostly to anchor the geography.  Also, this problem statement is=20
> at least two steps removed from the eventual systems that users might=20
> interact with to make measurements - protocol development/enhancement
> has to follow, then active measurement methods that the protocol would=20
> enable, then implementation in a system. I'm willing to append this text
> to the last paragraph of the Intro, if it helps:
>=20
> The eventual protocol solutions to this problem (and the systems that=20
> utilize the protocol) may not directly involve users, such as when=20
> tests reach from the Infrastructure to a service-specific device,=20
> such as a residential gateway. However, no aspect of the problem=20
> precludes users from developing a test protocol controlled via=20
> command line interfaces on both ends. Thus, a very wide range of=20
> test protocols, active measurement methods and system solutions=20
> are the possible outcomes of this problem statement.
>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> - section 6: surely this needs to note the problem that there
>>>> can be privacy issues with (esp. multiple uses) of
>>>> measurement - e.g. if I use my phone in different places to
>>>> do similar measurements I may be open to some new forms of
>>>> tracking. Why not note this? Why is there no "MUST NOT"
>>>> requirement from this?  (Assuming you stick with including
>>>> such.) RFC2330 does recognise privacy for example, so why not
>>>> here too? BTW I don't think I see privacy issues considered
>>>> in 4656 or 5357, but I only had a very quick look. (This
>>>> would be a DISCUSS from me if this were a protocol document,
>>>> but I'm ok to just leave it as a comment on one like this.)
>>>=20
>>> I'm inclined to start citing the Privacy Section (8) of the LMAP
>>> Framework draft as the "best answer so far" for measurement
>>> protocols.  I'll add that reference.  You're right that 4656
>>> and 5357 pre-date Snowden and the aftermath, but so does the text
>>> of section 6, IIRC.
>>=20
>> Could a statement be added to discourage the collection of identifiers
>> from applications or devices that use the methods described in this
>> draft to protect the privacy of the end user?  If the purpose is for
>> an end user to get the results, does to point in the network they use
>> for testing need to collect anything? I would think not and am making
>> an assumption that the model is of tools used to test speed from an
>> end user.  But maybe I missed something.
>=20
> I realize I'm loading up a careful IESG review for the LMAP Framework,=20
> but let it be so. I'd rather have a canonical reference to point to=20
> in the future.
>=20
> I added this text in the middle of the Security Considerations section:
>=20
> Privacy considerations for measurement systems, particularly when Internet=
 users participate in the tests in some way, are described in "I-D.ietf-lmap=
-framework"

These were Stephen's comments, but I do like the suggested text to clarify t=
hese points further.

Thank you,
Kathleen=20

>=20
> thanks and regards,
> Al
>=20
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Kathleen
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> I also feel that "using my phone in different places" is a matter
>>> for the implementations of protocols that follow this memo, and
>>> mostly for test methodologies that focus on the mobile environment.
>>> But we're not there yet.  I simply suggest we put the privacy
>>> considerations where they are most relevant.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>>=20
>> Best regards,
>> Kathleen


From nobody Thu Feb  5 06:08:19 2015
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Subject: [ippm] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

- Thanks for the "Operational Considerations" new section, as discussed
with D. Romascanu

- The document tile says problem statement, but it's a mix of problem
statement, use cases, and some protocol requirements with RFC 2119
keywords. I believe the title should be modified accordingly.

- I agree with Stephen regarding the use of RFC 2119.

   Service subscribers and
   authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service
   provider's permission before conducting tests.

Really, should I have my provider consent before running
http://www.speedtest.net/ ? :-)

-

   Current IETF standardized test protocols do not
   possess the asymmetric size generation capability with two-way
   testing.

Do you mean OWAMP/TWAMP? Please be specific



From nobody Thu Feb  5 06:08:22 2015
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Subject: [ippm] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: No Objection

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http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

- Thanks for the "Operational Considerations" new section, as discussed
with D. Romascanu

- The document tile says problem statement, but it's a mix of problem
statement, use cases, and some protocol requirements with RFC 2119
keywords. I believe the title should be modified accordingly.

- I agree with Stephen regarding the use of RFC 2119.

   Service subscribers and
   authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service
   provider's permission before conducting tests.

Really, should I have my provider consent before running
http://www.speedtest.net/ ? :-)

-

   Current IETF standardized test protocols do not
   possess the asymmetric size generation capability with two-way
   testing.

Do you mean OWAMP/TWAMP? Please be specific



From nobody Thu Feb  5 06:20:57 2015
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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 09:20:35 -0500
Thread-Topic: Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 09:20:35 -0500
Thread-Topic: Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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--------------000306070408090301090805
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Hi Al,

Thanks for the quick reaction.
I removed the points of agreements.
> Hi Benoit,
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> - Thanks for the "Operational Considerations" new section, as discussed
>> with D. Romascanu
>>
>> - The document tile says problem statement, but it's a mix of problem
>> statement, use cases, and some protocol requirements with RFC 2119
>> keywords. I believe the title should be modified accordingly.
> Let's assume material describing use is necessary for the problem statement,
> so how about:
>
> Rate Measurement Test Protocol Problem Statement and Requirements
that's better. thanks.
>
>
>
>
>>     Service subscribers and
>>     authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service
>>     provider's permission before conducting tests.
>>
>> Really, should I have my provider consent before running
>> http://www.speedtest.net/ ? :-)
> I understand some service agreements already require notification.
Maybe you want:

   Service subscribers and
    authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service
    provider's permission before conducting_heavy_tests.

Or what the right adjective is.
On top of that, I don't get what a RFC 2119 SHOULD add to the document. 
RFC 2119 is for protocol spec, and potentially for requirements.b
Btw, same remark for the next sentence.

    Likewise, a service
    provider or third party SHOULD obtain the subscriber's permission to
    conduct tests, since they might temporarily reduce service quality.

Regards, Benoit

--------------000306070408090301090805
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
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  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Al,<br>
      <br>
      Thanks for the quick reaction.<br>
      I removed the points of agreements.<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4AF73AA205019A4C8A1DDD32C034631D876E6148@NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Hi Benoit,
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

- Thanks for the "Operational Considerations" new section, as discussed
with D. Romascanu

- The document tile says problem statement, but it's a mix of problem
statement, use cases, and some protocol requirements with RFC 2119
keywords. I believe the title should be modified accordingly.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
Let's assume material describing use is necessary for the problem statement,
so how about:

Rate Measurement Test Protocol Problem Statement and Requirements</pre>
    </blockquote>
    that's better. thanks.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4AF73AA205019A4C8A1DDD32C034631D876E6148@NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">




</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">
   Service subscribers and
   authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service
   provider's permission before conducting tests.

Really, should I have my provider consent before running
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.speedtest.net/">http://www.speedtest.net/</a> ? :-)
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
I understand some service agreements already require notification.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    Maybe you want:<br>
    <pre wrap="">  Service subscribers and
   authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service
   provider's permission before conducting <u>heavy </u>tests.</pre>
    Or what the right adjective is.<br>
    On top of that, I don't get what a RFC 2119 SHOULD add to the
    document. RFC 2119 is for protocol spec, and potentially for
    requirements.b<br>
    Btw, same remark for the next sentence.<br>
    <pre class="newpage">   Likewise, a service
   provider or third party SHOULD obtain the subscriber's permission to
   conduct tests, since they might temporarily reduce service quality.</pre>
    Regards, Benoit<br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------000306070408090301090805--


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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 09:46:38 -0500
Thread-Topic: Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2015 16:15:52 +0100
From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
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To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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Cc: "ietf@wjcerveny.com" <ietf@wjcerveny.com>, Dan <dromasca@avaya.com>, "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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On 05/02/2015 15:46, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote:
>
> reply at end [ACM]
>
> *From:*Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 05, 2015 9:30 AM
> *To:* MORTON, ALFRED C (AL); The IESG
> *Cc:* Dan; ietf@wjcerveny.com; 
> draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org; ippm-chairs@ietf.org; 
> ippm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Benoit Claise's No Objection on 
> draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
>
> Hi Al,
>
> Thanks for the quick reaction.
> I removed the points of agreements.
>
> …
>
>       
>
>         Service subscribers and
>
>         authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service
>
>         provider's permission before conducting tests.
>
>       
>
>     Really, should I have my provider consent before running
>
>     http://www.speedtest.net/  ? :-)
>
>   
> I understand some service agreements already require notification.
>
> Maybe you want:
>
>    Service subscribers and
>     authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service
>     provider's permission before conducting_heavy_tests.
>
> Or what the right adjective is.
> On top of that, I don't get what a RFC 2119 SHOULD add to the 
> document. RFC 2119 is for protocol spec, and potentially for 
> requirements.b
> Btw, same remark for the next sentence.
>
>     Likewise, a service
>     provider or third party SHOULD obtain the subscriber's permission to
>     conduct tests, since they might temporarily reduce service quality.
>
> Regards, Benoit
>
> [ACM]
>
> It's hard to pick a usefully qualifying adjective there, that's why I 
> didn't...
>
Fair enough.
>
> The system hosting the protocol could ask the users for their permission,
>
> or ask if the service provider has been notified.  The protocol could
>
> communicate the permission status, either explicitly or through other 
> means.
>
> Disclosure/Permission is a pillar of the privacy considerations
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lmap-framework-10#section-8.5.4
>
And what about my remark: On top of that, I don't get what a RFC 2119 
SHOULD adds to the document. RFC 2119 is for protocol spec, and 
potentially for a protocol requirements.

Regards, Benoit
>
> hope this helps,
>
> Al
>


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/02/2015 15:46, MORTON, ALFRED C
      (AL) wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4AF73AA205019A4C8A1DDD32C034631D876E6155@NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com"
      type="cite">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">reply at end [ACM]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
          0in 0in 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                  Benoit Claise [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bclaise@cisco.com">mailto:bclaise@cisco.com</a>] <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 05, 2015 9:30 AM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> MORTON, ALFRED C (AL); The IESG<br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> Dan; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ietf@wjcerveny.com">ietf@wjcerveny.com</a>;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org">ippm-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ippm@ietf.org">ippm@ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: Benoit Claise's No Objection on
                  draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Al,<br>
              <br>
              Thanks for the quick reaction.<br>
              I removed the points of agreements.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <pre><span style="color:windowtext">…</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>   Service subscribers and<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>   authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>   provider's permission before conducting tests.<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>Really, should I have my provider consent before running<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.speedtest.net/">http://www.speedtest.net/</a> ? :-)<o:p></o:p></pre>
          </blockquote>
          <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
          <pre>I understand some service agreements already require notification.<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Maybe you want:<br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <pre>  Service subscribers and<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>   authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>   provider's permission before conducting <u>heavy </u>tests.<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Or what the right adjective is.<br>
            On top of that, I don't get what a RFC 2119 SHOULD add to
            the document. RFC 2119 is for protocol spec, and potentially
            for requirements.b<br>
            Btw, same remark for the next sentence.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <pre>   Likewise, a service<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>   provider or third party SHOULD obtain the subscriber's permission to<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>   conduct tests, since they might temporarily reduce service quality.<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Regards, Benoit<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext">[ACM]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext">It's hard to pick a usefully
              qualifying adjective there, that's why I didn't...</span></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Fair enough.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4AF73AA205019A4C8A1DDD32C034631D876E6155@NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext">The system hosting the
              protocol could ask the users for their permission,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext">or ask if the service provider
              has been notified.  The protocol could <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext">communicate the permission
              status, either explicitly or through other means.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext">Disclosure/Permission is a
              pillar of the privacy considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lmap-framework-10#section-8.5.4">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lmap-framework-10#section-8.5.4</a></span></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    And what about my remark: On top of that, I don't get what a RFC
    2119 SHOULD adds to the document. RFC 2119 is for protocol spec, and
    potentially for a protocol requirements.<br>
    <br>
    Regards, Benoit<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4AF73AA205019A4C8A1DDD32C034631D876E6155@NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
          0in 0in 4.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext">hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext">Al<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 10:19:52 -0500
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Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2015 16:24:06 +0100
From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
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On 05/02/2015 16:19, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote:
>
> could add this in the right place:
>
> The protocol SHOULD communicate the permission status once the overall 
> system has obtained it, either explicitly or through other means.
>
Fine. Thanks Al.

Regards, B.
>
> Al
>
> *From:*Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 05, 2015 10:16 AM
> *To:* MORTON, ALFRED C (AL); The IESG
> *Cc:* Dan; ietf@wjcerveny.com; 
> draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org; ippm-chairs@ietf.org; 
> ippm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Benoit Claise's No Objection on 
> draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
>
> On 05/02/2015 15:46, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote:
>
>     reply at end [ACM]
>
>     *From:*Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
>     *Sent:* Thursday, February 05, 2015 9:30 AM
>     *To:* MORTON, ALFRED C (AL); The IESG
>     *Cc:* Dan; ietf@wjcerveny.com <mailto:ietf@wjcerveny.com>;
>     draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org>;
>     ippm-chairs@ietf.org <mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; ippm@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: Benoit Claise's No Objection on
>     draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)
>
>     Hi Al,
>
>     Thanks for the quick reaction.
>     I removed the points of agreements.
>
>     …
>
>           
>
>             Service subscribers and
>
>             authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service
>
>             provider's permission before conducting tests.
>
>           
>
>         Really, should I have my provider consent before running
>
>         http://www.speedtest.net/  ? :-)
>
>       
>
>     I understand some service agreements already require notification.
>
>     Maybe you want:
>
>
>        Service subscribers and
>
>         authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service
>
>         provider's permission before conducting_heavy_tests.
>
>     Or what the right adjective is.
>     On top of that, I don't get what a RFC 2119 SHOULD add to the
>     document. RFC 2119 is for protocol spec, and potentially for
>     requirements.b
>     Btw, same remark for the next sentence.
>
>         Likewise, a service
>
>         provider or third party SHOULD obtain the subscriber's permission to
>
>         conduct tests, since they might temporarily reduce service quality.
>
>     Regards, Benoit
>
>     [ACM]
>
>     It's hard to pick a usefully qualifying adjective there, that's
>     why I didn't...
>
> Fair enough.
>
> The system hosting the protocol could ask the users for their permission,
>
> or ask if the service provider has been notified.  The protocol could
>
> communicate the permission status, either explicitly or through other 
> means.
>
> Disclosure/Permission is a pillar of the privacy considerations
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lmap-framework-10#section-8.5.4
>
> And what about my remark: On top of that, I don't get what a RFC 2119 
> SHOULD adds to the document. RFC 2119 is for protocol spec, and 
> potentially for a protocol requirements.
>
> Regards, Benoit
>
> hope this helps,
>
> Al
>
b

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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/02/2015 16:19, MORTON, ALFRED C
      (AL) wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4AF73AA205019A4C8A1DDD32C034631D876E6164@NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com"
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">could add this in the right
            place:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">The protocol SHOULD communicate
            the permission status once the overall system has obtained
            it, either explicitly or through other means.</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Fine. Thanks Al.<br>
    <br>
    Regards, B.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4AF73AA205019A4C8A1DDD32C034631D876E6164@NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">Al<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
          0in 0in 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                  Benoit Claise [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bclaise@cisco.com">mailto:bclaise@cisco.com</a>] <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 05, 2015 10:16 AM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> MORTON, ALFRED C (AL); The IESG<br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> Dan; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ietf@wjcerveny.com">ietf@wjcerveny.com</a>;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org">ippm-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ippm@ietf.org">ippm@ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: Benoit Claise's No Objection on
                  draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On 05/02/2015 15:46, MORTON, ALFRED C
              (AL) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">reply at end
                [ACM]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
              1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
              <div>
                <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
                  1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                      Benoit Claise [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:bclaise@cisco.com">mailto:bclaise@cisco.com</a>]
                      <br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 05, 2015 9:30 AM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> MORTON, ALFRED C (AL); The IESG<br>
                      <b>Cc:</b> Dan; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:ietf@wjcerveny.com">ietf@wjcerveny.com</a>;
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem.all@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org">ippm-chairs@ietf.org</a>;
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:ippm@ietf.org">ippm@ietf.org</a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: Benoit Claise's No Objection
                      on draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-09: (with COMMENT)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Al,<br>
                  <br>
                  Thanks for the quick reaction.<br>
                  I removed the points of agreements.<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <pre><span style="color:windowtext">…</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>   Service subscribers and<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>   authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>   provider's permission before conducting tests.<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>Really, should I have my provider consent before running<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.speedtest.net/">http://www.speedtest.net/</a> ? :-)<o:p></o:p></pre>
              </blockquote>
              <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>I understand some service agreements already require notification.<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Maybe you want:<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <pre>  Service subscribers and<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   authorized users SHOULD obtain their network operator's or service<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   provider's permission before conducting <u>heavy </u>tests.<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Or what the right adjective is.<br>
                On top of that, I don't get what a RFC 2119 SHOULD add
                to the document. RFC 2119 is for protocol spec, and
                potentially for requirements.b<br>
                Btw, same remark for the next sentence.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <pre>   Likewise, a service<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   provider or third party SHOULD obtain the subscriber's permission to<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   conduct tests, since they might temporarily reduce service quality.<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Regards, Benoit<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">[ACM]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">It's hard
                  to pick a usefully qualifying adjective there, that's
                  why I didn't...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Fair enough.<br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
            1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">The system
                hosting the protocol could ask the users for their
                permission,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">or ask if the
                service provider has been notified.  The protocol could
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">communicate
                the permission status, either explicitly or through
                other means.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Disclosure/Permission
                is a pillar of the privacy considerations</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lmap-framework-10#section-8.5.4">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lmap-framework-10#section-8.5.4</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">And what about my remark: On top of that,
            I don't get what a RFC 2119 SHOULD adds to the document. RFC
            2119 is for protocol spec, and potentially for a protocol
            requirements.<br>
            <br>
            Regards, Benoit<br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
            1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">hope this
                helps,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Al</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:windowtext&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    b<br>
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Rate Measurement Test Protocol Problem Statement and Requirements
        Author          : Al Morton
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-10.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2015-02-05

Abstract:
   This memo presents an access rate-measurement problem statement for
   test protocols to measure IP Performance Metrics.  Key rate
   measurement test protocol aspects include the ability to control
   packet characteristics on the tested path, such as asymmetric rate
   and asymmetric packet size.



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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : IKEv2-based Shared Secret Key for O/TWAMP
        Authors         : Kostas Pentikousis
                          Emma Zhang
                          Yang Cui
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-09.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2015-02-11

Abstract:
   The One-way Active Measurement Protocol (OWAMP) and Two-Way Active
   Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) security mechanism require that both the
   client and server endpoints possess a shared secret.  Since the
   currently-standardized O/TWAMP security mechanism only supports a
   pre-shared key mode, large scale deployment of O/TWAMP is hindered
   significantly.  At the same time, recent trends point to wider
   Internet Key Exchange Protocol Version 2 (IKEv2) deployment which, in
   turn, calls for mechanisms and methods that enable tunnel end-users,
   as well as operators, to measure one-way and two- way network
   performance in a standardized manner.  This document describes the
   use of keys derived from an IKEv2 security association (SA) as the
   shared key in O/TWAMP.  If the shared key can be derived from the
   IKEv2 SA, O/TWAMP can support certificate-based key exchange, which
   would allow for more operational flexibility and efficiency.  The key
   derivation presented in this document can also facilitate automatic
   key management.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
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http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-09


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From: Kostas Pentikousis <k.pentikousis@eict.de>
To: "drafts-lastcall@iana.org" <drafts-lastcall@iana.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 17:54:40 +0100
Thread-Topic: [IANA #805766] Last Call: <draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-08.txt> (IKEv2-based Shared Secret Key for O/TWAMP) to Proposed Standard
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Subject: Re: [ippm] [IANA #805766] Last Call: <draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-08.txt> (IKEv2-based Shared Secret Key for O/TWAMP) to Proposed Standard
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From: Kostas Pentikousis <k.pentikousis@eict.de>
To: Tero Kivinen <kivinen@iki.fi>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 17:59:17 +0100
Thread-Topic: Comments to draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-08
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments to draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-08
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Dear Tero,

Many thanks for catching that. Much appreciated. We have now updated the do=
cument accordingly.

Best regards,

Kostas


| -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
| Von: Tero Kivinen [mailto:kivinen@iki.fi]
| Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. Januar 2015 11:37
| An: ietf@ietf.org
| Cc: ippm@ietf.org; draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec.all@tools.ietf.org
| Betreff: Comments to draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-08
|=20
| In the whole draft there are several cases where IPsec is spelled incorre=
ctly
| (IPSec).
|=20
| --
|=20
| In section 5.3 there is text saying:
|=20
|    The Security Parameter Index (SPI)(see [RFC4301] [RFC7296]) can
|    uniquely identify the Security Association (SA).  If the client
|    supports the derivation of shared secret key from IKEv2 SA, it will
|    choose the corresponding mode value and carry SPIi and SPIr in the
|    Key ID field.  SPIi and SPIr MUST be included in the Key ID field of
|    Set-Up-Response Message to indicate the IKEv2 SA from which the O/
|    TWAMP shared secret key derived from.  The length of SPI is 4 octets.
|    	 	       	   	   	      	     	       ^
|    Therefore, the first 4 octets of Key ID field MUST carry SPIi and the
|    	      	  	^
|    second 4 octets MUST carry SPIr.  The remaining bits of the Key ID
|    	  ^
|    field MUST set to zero.
|=20
| This is wrong. The SPIi and SPIr in the IKEv2 SA are 8 octets each.
| The ESP and AH SPI is 4 octets, for IKEv2 SA it is 8+8. Also in the next
| paragraph it should say "first 16 octets" not "first 8 octets".
|=20
| --
|=20
| In section 5.4 you there is text:
|=20
| 							    ... If
|    the two endpoints are already connected through an IPSec tunnel it
|    is RECOMMENDED that the O/TWAMP measurement packets are forwarded
|    over the IPSec tunnel if the peers choose the unauthenticated mode
|    in order to ensure authenticity and security.
|=20
| Part of the IPsec architecture model specifies policy rules which dictate
| which packets go to the tunnel and which do not. This text above seems to
| indicate that someone else than the policy rules could say that those O/T=
WAMP
| measurement packets might ignore those policy rules and go out bypassing =
those
| rules.
|=20
| I think it would be better to rewrite the text above to reflect that the =
IPsec
| policy model is followed with those packets just as for any other packets=
.
| I.e. the normal case would be that IPsec policy rules will specify whethe=
r the
| measurement packets go to the tunnel or not.
| If I understand correctly that this text tries to say that IPsec tunnel s=
hould
| be configured so that it SHOULD include O/TWAMP measurement packets, even=
 when
| using unauthenticated mode, to ensure authenticity and security.
| --
| kivinen@iki.fi


From nobody Thu Feb 12 02:33:10 2015
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Changed milestone "Submit draft on access rate measurement protocol
problem statement to IESG as Informational", resolved as "Done".

Changed milestone "Submit draft on OWAMP / TWAMP Security to IESG as
Proposed Standard", resolved as "Done".

URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ippm/charter/


From nobody Thu Feb 12 02:50:36 2015
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Changed milestone "Submit draft on DSCP and ECN monitoring in TWAMP to
IESG as Proposed Standard", added draft-ietf-ippm-type-p-monitor to
milestone.

Changed milestone "Submit draft on the UDP Checksum Trailer in OWAMP
and TWAMP to the IESG as Informational", added
draft-ietf-ippm-checksum-trailer to milestone.

URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ippm/charter/


From nobody Thu Feb 12 02:58:32 2015
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From: Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>
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Subject: [ippm] IPPM Working Group Status / Call for Agenda Items in Dallas
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Greetings, all,

Here's the current status of the work of the IPPM Working Group =
(Authors, if I have something wrong here, please correct me. :) )

## Completed Documents ##

These documents have completed the working group process and are in RFC =
Editor or IESG processing, and should be published as RFCs soon, for =
some value of soon.

- draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-07: in RFC Editor Queue / AUTH48.

- draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-10: Approved / AD followup. The most =
recent revision of this document should address the remaining IESG =
concerns.

- draft-ietf-ippm-ipsec-09: Submitted to IESG. Handling of area reviews =
mostly complete.

## Awaiting Shepherd Writeup ##

- draft-ietf-ippm-2679-bis-01 and draft-ietf-ippm-2680-bis-01: WGLC =
finished 23 January, -01 is the post-WGLC revision. In neither case was =
there much comment on the list but given that these have been discussed =
for some time before adoption I don't consider this an issue. Next step =
is for Bill to do the shepherd writeup and request publication.

## Working Group Items ##

- draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics-03: Expired 4 January 2015, =
milestone November 2014. Could the authors send an update on the status =
of this document to the working group list, please?

- draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-01: In progress, milestone for March =
2015. =46rom the discussion on the list and the present state of the =
document, it seems to me that this milestone might be a bit aggressive =
at this point. Do the authors have an update on when this might be ready =
to send up?

- draft-ietf-ippm-checksum-trailer-00: I believe this one is ready for =
WGLC. We can start this next week unless there are any objections. I've =
assigned myself document shepherd (since Bill was so good to handle all =
the output of the WG during my paternity leave).=20

- draft-ietf-ippm-type-p-monitor-01: Same. I believe this one is ready =
for WGLC, also next week; have also assigned myself shepherd.

Good news, it looks like we're clearing our work queue. Given this, I =
would expect to see agenda items in Dallas for:

- draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics-04 (assuming an updated draft)
- draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-02 (assuming an updated draft)
- draft-ietf-ippm-checksum-trailer-00 (if there is anything to discuss =
after WGLC)
- draft-ietf-ippm-type-p-monitor-01 (if there is anything to discuss =
after WGLC)

Beyond that, if you would like time in Dallas to discuss individual =
drafts targeted at IPPM, please send requests to =
ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org by Wednesday, 4 March 2015.

Thanks, cheers,

Brian (as WG co-chair)=


From nobody Thu Feb 12 11:37:19 2015
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IESG has approved the document and state has been changed to Approved-announcement sent
ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem/


From nobody Thu Feb 12 11:37:22 2015
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IESG has approved the document and state has been changed to Approved-announcement sent
ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem/


From nobody Thu Feb 12 11:37:28 2015
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Subject: [ippm] Document Action: 'Rate Measurement Test Protocol Problem Statement and Requirements' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-10.txt)
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The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'Rate Measurement Test Protocol Problem Statement and Requirements'
  (draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem-10.txt) as Informational RFC

This document is the product of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group.

The IESG contact persons are Spencer Dawkins and Martin Stiemerling.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-rate-problem/





Technical Summary

   This memo presents an access rate-measurement problem statement for test 
   protocols to measure IP Performance Metrics.  The rate measurement scenario 
   has wide-spread attention of Internet access subscribers and seemingly all 
   industry players, including regulators. Key test protocol aspects require 
   the ability to control packet size on the tested path and enable 
   asymmetrical packet size testing in a controller-responder architecture.

Working Group Summary

   A controversial topic regards the level of requirement for the capability 
   to control asymmetric packet sizes in two-way testing architectures. A few 
   participants felt that the document should not require asymmetric packet 
   sizes, even though there are a number of cases where it would appear 
   asymmetric packets sizes would be essential to measure the path capacity 
   accurately.

   As a compromise, the author updated the document to require asymmetric 
   packet rate generation, and both symmetric and asymmetric packet sizes are 
   recommended. The many circumstances where asymmetric packet size testing is 
   needed are documented, and many of these circumstances would be unknown 
   prior to comparative tests using symmetric and asymmetric packet sizes.

Document Quality

   The draft was reviewed by many members of WG. There are already standards 
   track protocol extension proposals that respond to the requirements in 
   this draft. At least one protocol solution has been implemented and 
   deployed.

Personnel

   The document shepherd is Bill Cerveny. 
   The responsible area director is Spencer Dawkins.




From nobody Thu Feb 12 17:06:30 2015
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Folks,
We have posted a new draft of our PDM proposal. =C2=A0 Thanks to all for yo=
ur comments in Hawaii.
There were a number of questions posed, which we have categorized and answe=
red. =C2=A0 If thereare others, please let us know. =C2=A0 =C2=A0
The posting got too big, so I have created an attachment. =C2=A0Hope that w=
ill get through.
Thanks again to all. =C2=A0
Question 1. =C2=A0PDM does not have enough variables to actually diagnose p=
roblems.Question 2. =C2=A0PDM has too many fields. =C2=A0Are they all neces=
sary,Question 3. =C2=A0PDM will only work for simple applications with one =
send and one receive.Question 4. =C2=A0Why is the proposal for an IPv6 exte=
nsion header rather than a TCP option? =C2=A0 Only TCP is important.Questio=
n 5. =C2=A0PDM creates too much overhead.Question 6. =C2=A0Where in stack a=
nd process will timing be done? =C2=A0=C2=A0Question 7. =C2=A0Do middle box=
es need to process PDM?=C2=A0Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
Inside Products, Inc.
(831) 659-8360
www.insidethestack.com

    ----- Forwarded Message -----
  From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
 To: Nalini Elkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Rob Hamilton <rhamil=
ton@cas.org>; Michael S. Ackermann <mackermann@bcbsmi.com>; Nalini Elkins <=
nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Robert Hamilton <rhamilton@cas.org>; Mic=
hael Ackermann <mackermann@bcbsmi.com>=20
 Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 8:05 AM
 Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03.txt
  =20

A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option
Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 03
Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IPPM Considerations for the IPv=
6 PDM Destination Option
Document date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2015-02-14
Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 25
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.ietf.org/internet-=
drafts/draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-e=
lkins-ippm-pdm-option/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-elkins-ippm-=
pdm-option-03
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3D=
draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03

Abstract:
=C2=A0 To assess performance problems,=C2=A0 measurements based on optional
=C2=A0 sequence numbers and timing may be embedded in each packet.=C2=A0 Su=
ch
=C2=A0 measurements may be interpreted in real-time or after the fact. An
=C2=A0 implementation of the existing IPv6 Destination Options extension
=C2=A0 header, the Performance and Diagnostic Metrics (PDM) Destination
=C2=A0 Options extension header has been proposed in a companion document.
=C2=A0 This document specifies the field limits, calculations, and usage of
=C2=A0 the PDM in measurement.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



  
------=_Part_3600301_1209518143.1424017225408
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12px"><div class=3D"" dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1=
424016327957_3813" style=3D"">Folks,</div><div class=3D"" dir=3D"ltr" id=3D=
"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D""><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"" dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" st=
yle=3D"">We have posted a new draft of our PDM proposal. &nbsp; Thanks to a=
ll for your comments in Hawaii.</div><div class=3D"" dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5=
251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" cla=
ss=3D"" style=3D""></div><div class=3D"" dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5251809209yui=
_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D"">There were a number of questions p=
osed, which we have categorized and answered. &nbsp; If there</div><div cla=
ss=3D"" dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" sty=
le=3D"">are others, please let us know. &nbsp; &nbsp;</div><div class=3D"" =
dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D"">=
<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D""></div><div class=3D"" dir=3D"ltr" =
id=3D"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D"">The posting =
got too big, so I have created an attachment. &nbsp;Hope that will get thro=
ugh.</div><div class=3D"" dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_14240=
16327957_3813" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D""></div><d=
iv class=3D"" dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_381=
3" style=3D"">Thanks again to all. &nbsp;</div><div class=3D"" id=3D"yiv525=
1809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=
=3D"" style=3D""></div><div class=3D"" id=3D"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424=
016327957_3813" style=3D"">Question 1. &nbsp;PDM does not have enough varia=
bles to actually diagnose problems.</div><div class=3D"" id=3D"yiv525180920=
9yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D"">Question 2. &nbsp;PDM has too =
many fields. &nbsp;Are they all necessary,</div><div class=3D"" id=3D"yiv52=
51809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D"">Question 3. &nbsp;PDM w=
ill only work for simple applications with one send and one receive.</div><=
div class=3D"" id=3D"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D=
"">Question 4. &nbsp;Why is the proposal for an IPv6 extension header rathe=
r than a TCP option? &nbsp; Only TCP is important.</div><div class=3D"" id=
=3D"yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D"">Question 5. &n=
bsp;PDM creates too much overhead.</div><div class=3D"" id=3D"yiv5251809209=
yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D"">Question 6. &nbsp;Where in stac=
k and process will timing be done? &nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"" id=3D"=
yiv5251809209yui_3_16_0_1_1424016327957_3813" style=3D"">Question 7. &nbsp;=
Do middle boxes need to process PDM?</div><div></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_=
1_1424016954365_4965">&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424016954365_503=
2"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424016954365_5031">Thanks,</div><br><br><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424016954365_5033">Nalini Elkins<br>Inside Products, Inc.=
<br>(831) 659-8360<br>www.insidethestack.com<br></div></div><br>  <div styl=
e=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida G=
rande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424016954365_5036"=
> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Aria=
l, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_14240169=
54365_5035"> <div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424016954365_5034"> -----=
 Forwarded Message -----<br>  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" id=3D"yui_3_1=
6_0_1_1424016954365_5037"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span=
></b> "internet-drafts@ietf.org" &lt;internet-drafts@ietf.org&gt;<br> <b><s=
pan style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Nalini Elkins &lt;nalini.el=
kins@insidethestack.com&gt;; Rob Hamilton &lt;rhamilton@cas.org&gt;; Michae=
l S. Ackermann &lt;mackermann@bcbsmi.com&gt;; Nalini Elkins &lt;nalini.elki=
ns@insidethestack.com&gt;; Robert Hamilton &lt;rhamilton@cas.org&gt;; Micha=
el Ackermann &lt;mackermann@bcbsmi.com&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weig=
ht: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, February 15, 2015 8:05 AM<br> <b id=3D"=
yui_3_16_0_1_1424016954365_5141"><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;" id=3D"y=
ui_3_16_0_1_1424016954365_5140">Subject:</span></b> New Version Notificatio=
n for draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03.txt<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"=
y_msg_container" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424016954365_5112"><br><br>A new versi=
on of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03.txt<br>has been successfully sub=
mitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the<br>IETF repository.<br><br>Name:&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option<br>Revisi=
on:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 03<br>Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IPP=
M Considerations for the IPv6 PDM Destination Option<br>Document date:&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2015-02-14<br>Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ind=
ividual Submission<br>Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 25<br>URL=
:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/i=
nternet-drafts/draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03.txt" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03.txt</a><br>S=
tatus:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;  <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ie=
tf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option/</a><br>Htmlized:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;  <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03" =
target=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-0=
3</a><br>Diff:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;  <a href=3D"http://www.iet=
f.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-elkins-ippm-pdm-option-03</a><br><br>=
Abstract:<br>&nbsp;  To assess performance problems,&nbsp; measurements bas=
ed on optional<br>&nbsp;  sequence numbers and timing may be embedded in ea=
ch packet.&nbsp; Such<br>&nbsp;  measurements may be interpreted in real-ti=
me or after the fact. An<br>&nbsp;  implementation of the existing IPv6 Des=
tination Options extension<br>&nbsp;  header, the Performance and Diagnosti=
c Metrics (PDM) Destination<br>&nbsp;  Options extension header has been pr=
oposed in a companion document.<br>&nbsp;  This document specifies the fiel=
d limits, calculations, and usage of<br>&nbsp;  the PDM in measurement.<br>=
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <br><br><=
br>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submis=
sion<br>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org=
.<br><br>The IETF Secretariat<br><br><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></=
body></html>
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------=_Part_3600302_1343491793.1424017225414--


From nobody Mon Feb 16 04:56:46 2015
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Registry for Performance Metrics
        Authors         : Marcelo Bagnulo
                          Benoit Claise
                          Philip Eardley
                          Al Morton
                          Aamer Akhter
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-02.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2015-02-16

Abstract:
   This document defines the IANA Registry for Performance Metrics.
   This document also gives a set of guidelines for Registered
   Performance Metric requesters and reviewers.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Feb 16 04:58:20 2015
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Hi,

We just posted a new version of the draft.
There are some outstanding issues that we need to address, but we would 
appreciate comments if you have some.

Thanks, marcelo



-------- Mensaje reenviado --------
Asunto: 	I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-02.txt
Fecha: 	Mon, 16 Feb 2015 04:56:26 -0800
De: 	internet-drafts@ietf.org
Responder a: 	internet-drafts@ietf.org
Para: 	i-d-announce@ietf.org
CC: 	ippm@ietf.org



A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
  This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF.

         Title           : Registry for Performance Metrics
         Authors         : Marcelo Bagnulo
                           Benoit Claise
                           Philip Eardley
                           Al Morton
                           Aamer Akhter
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-02.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2015-02-16

Abstract:
    This document defines the IANA Registry for Performance Metrics.
    This document also gives a set of guidelines for Registered
    Performance Metric requesters and reviewers.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt





From nobody Wed Feb 18 02:38:59 2015
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Subject: [ippm] WGLC on draft-ietf-ippm-checksum-trailer-00
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Greetings, all,

As noted in our status message, Working Group Last Call on =
draft-ietf-ippm-checksum-trailer-00, "UDP Checksum Trailer in OWAMP and =
TWAMP" begins today, until EOB Wednesday 4 March 2015. Please review the =
draft if you have not already, and direct any final comments on this =
draft to the list.

Many thanks, best regards,

Brian=


From nobody Wed Feb 18 15:01:28 2015
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Subject: [ippm] RFC 7398 on A Reference Path and Measurement Points for Large-Scale Measurement of Broadband Performance
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 7398

        Title:      A Reference Path and Measurement 
                    Points for Large-Scale Measurement of Broadband 
                    Performance 
        Author:     M. Bagnulo, T. Burbridge,
                    S. Crawford, P. Eardley,
                    A. Morton
        Status:     Informational
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       February 2015
        Mailbox:    marcelo@it.uc3m.es, 
                    trevor.burbridge@bt.com, 
                    sam@samknows.com,
                    philip.eardley@bt.com, 
                    acmorton@att.com
        Pages:      17
        Characters: 36938
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-ippm-lmap-path-07.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7398

This document defines a reference path for Large-scale Measurement of
Broadband Access Performance (LMAP) and measurement points for
commonly used performance metrics.  Other similar measurement
projects may also be able to use the extensions described here for
measurement point location.  The purpose is to create an efficient
way to describe the location of the measurement point(s) used to
conduct a particular measurement.

This document is a product of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF.


INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community.
It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of
this memo is unlimited.

This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists.
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specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for
unlimited distribution.


The RFC Editor Team
Association Management Solutions, LLC



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Subject: [ippm] FW: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
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The latest draft is here:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-morton-ippm-active-passive-01.txt

This version benefits from Tizano's comments (see exchange below),
and very recent comments from Nalini and her colleague Bill.

regards,
Al

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ionta Tiziano [mailto:tiziano.ionta@telecomitalia.it]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 2:02 AM
> To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
> Subject: R: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
> Importance: High
>=20
> Hi Al,
> Thanks for your comments.
> I agree with sharing this exchange with IPPM-list.
> Regards
> Tiziano
>=20
>=20
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) [mailto:acmorton@att.com]
> Inviato: luned=EC 9 febbraio 2015 17.12
> A: Ionta Tiziano
> Oggetto: RE: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
>=20
> Hi Tiziano,
>=20
> I just found your message again, the one you sent before the holidays.
>=20
> I think you are right with alternative 2, the method is a Hybrid.
>=20
> I agree that there may be more dimensions for comparison.
> However, I think we should be sure that any dimensions are part of the
> definitions.  Also, we may only want to depict the two most important
> dimensions in the graph, so it is easy to draw and help when we compare
> methods.
>=20
> It would be good to share this exchange with IPPM-list, Do you agree?
>=20
> regards, and thanks for your comments and support, Al
>=20
> ________________________________________
> From: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2015 5:17 PM
> To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
> Subject: FW: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
>=20
> From: Ionta Tiziano [mailto:tiziano.ionta@telecomitalia.it]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 12:55 PM
> To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
> Subject: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
>=20
> Hi Al,
> as I promised, I'll try to summarize the suggestions I gave to you during
> and after the IPPM WG Meeting at IETF91 regarding the draft "ippm-active-
> passive" (whose set up I agree with):
>=20
> 1) The definition of Active and Passive Measurements, as it is written in
> the above mentioned draft, is probably to be enriched/modified somehow, s=
o
> to include the following considerations (came out to make an appropriate
> classification fit in the "colored traffic" measurement method):
> 1.1) In accordance with the Passive Measurements definition, the "colored
> traffic" measurement method does not have its own dedicated measurement
> stream, thus not increasing the overall traffic load. But.
> 1.2) In accordance with the Active Measurements definition, the "colored
> traffic" measurement method does have specific fields dedicated to the
> measurement.
>=20
> 2) Another hypothesis could be the following: instead of changing the
> definition of Active and/or Passive, the "colored traffic" measurement
> method could be classify as "Hybrid". Thus because, as I told above, the
> "colored traffic" measurement method includes characteristics belonging t=
o
> both Active and Passive measurements.
> The last consideration is regarding the 2-dimensional graph proposed in
> the draft: surely it is an excellent "first approach", but probably other
> aspects must be taken into account (by the way.did anybody suggested new
> variables after  IETF91?), thus modifying the 2-dimensional graph in an n=
-
> dimensional one. If this is the case, is still the n-dimensional graph th=
e
> best way of representation?
> Please keep in touch about this draft, because I believe this document
> will become a Milestone for the IPPM WG. Thus I'm very interested in a
> solid contribution.
>=20
> Thanks.
> Best
> Tiziano
> Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle
> persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante
> dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate.
> Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente
> pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla
> sua distruzione, Grazie.
>=20
> This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privilege=
d
> information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying,
> printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and
> advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
> [cid:00000000000000000000000000000003@TI.Disclaimer]Rispetta l'ambiente.
> Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario.
>=20


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Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:13:23 +0000 (UTC)
From: Nalini Elkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>
To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>,  "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
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------=_Part_763604_1844225113.1424985203346
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Al,
Really glad you did this draft. =C2=A0 There has been quite a bit of discus=
sion both at the meetings and offline about what active and passive really =
mean. =C2=A0 So, it is good to have a document that we can all refer to as =
our guidepost.=C2=A0Thanks for putting this together.

Nalini Elkins
Inside Products, Inc.
(831) 659-8360
www.insidethestack.com

      From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
 To: "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>=20
 Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:56 AM
 Subject: [ippm] FW: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
  =20
The latest draft is here:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-morton-ippm-active-passive-01.txt

This version benefits from Tizano's comments (see exchange below),
and very recent comments from Nalini and her colleague Bill.

regards,
Al

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ionta Tiziano [mailto:tiziano.ionta@telecomitalia.it]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 2:02 AM
> To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
> Subject: R: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
> Importance: High
>=20
> Hi Al,
> Thanks for your comments.
> I agree with sharing this exchange with IPPM-list.
> Regards
> Tiziano
>=20
>=20
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) [mailto:acmorton@att.com]
> Inviato: luned=C3=AC 9 febbraio 2015 17.12
> A: Ionta Tiziano
> Oggetto: RE: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
>=20
> Hi Tiziano,
>=20
> I just found your message again, the one you sent before the holidays.
>=20
> I think you are right with alternative 2, the method is a Hybrid.
>=20
> I agree that there may be more dimensions for comparison.
> However, I think we should be sure that any dimensions are part of the
> definitions.=C2=A0 Also, we may only want to depict the two most importan=
t
> dimensions in the graph, so it is easy to draw and help when we compare
> methods.
>=20
> It would be good to share this exchange with IPPM-list, Do you agree?
>=20
> regards, and thanks for your comments and support, Al
>=20
> ________________________________________
> From: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2015 5:17 PM
> To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
> Subject: FW: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
>=20
> From: Ionta Tiziano [mailto:tiziano.ionta@telecomitalia.it]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 12:55 PM
> To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
> Subject: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"
>=20
> Hi Al,
> as I promised, I'll try to summarize the suggestions I gave to you during
> and after the IPPM WG Meeting at IETF91 regarding the draft "ippm-active-
> passive" (whose set up I agree with):
>=20
> 1) The definition of Active and Passive Measurements, as it is written in
> the above mentioned draft, is probably to be enriched/modified somehow, s=
o
> to include the following considerations (came out to make an appropriate
> classification fit in the "colored traffic" measurement method):
> 1.1) In accordance with the Passive Measurements definition, the "colored
> traffic" measurement method does not have its own dedicated measurement
> stream, thus not increasing the overall traffic load. But.
> 1.2) In accordance with the Active Measurements definition, the "colored
> traffic" measurement method does have specific fields dedicated to the
> measurement.
>=20
> 2) Another hypothesis could be the following: instead of changing the
> definition of Active and/or Passive, the "colored traffic" measurement
> method could be classify as "Hybrid". Thus because, as I told above, the
> "colored traffic" measurement method includes characteristics belonging t=
o
> both Active and Passive measurements.
> The last consideration is regarding the 2-dimensional graph proposed in
> the draft: surely it is an excellent "first approach", but probably other
> aspects must be taken into account (by the way.did anybody suggested new
> variables after=C2=A0 IETF91?), thus modifying the 2-dimensional graph in=
 an n-
> dimensional one. If this is the case, is still the n-dimensional graph th=
e
> best way of representation?
> Please keep in touch about this draft, because I believe this document
> will become a Milestone for the IPPM WG. Thus I'm very interested in a
> solid contribution.
>=20
> Thanks.
> Best
> Tiziano
> Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle
> persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante
> dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate.
> Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente
> pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla
> sua distruzione, Grazie.
>=20
> This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privilege=
d
> information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying,
> printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and
> advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
> [cid:00000000000000000000000000000003@TI.Disclaimer]Rispetta l'ambiente.
> Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=A8 necessario.
>=20

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

  
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12px"><div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11251"><spa=
n>Al,</span></div><div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11253">=
<span><br></span></div><div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11=
255"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11254">Really glad you did this=
 draft. &nbsp; There has been quite a bit of discussion both at the meeting=
s and offline about what active and passive really mean. &nbsp; So, it is g=
ood to have a document that we can all refer to as our guidepost.</span></d=
iv><div></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11250">&nbsp;</div><div=
 id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11198"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235=
669_11256">Thanks for putting this together.</div><br><br><div id=3D"yui_3_=
16_0_1_1424984235669_11197">Nalini Elkins<br>Inside Products, Inc.<br>(831)=
 659-8360<br>www.insidethestack.com<br></div></div><br>  <div style=3D"font=
-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sa=
ns-serif; font-size: 12px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11262"> <div s=
tyle=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucid=
a Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11=
261"> <div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11260"> <hr size=3D=
"1">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_1125=
9"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "MORTON, ALFRED C=
 (AL)" &lt;acmorton@att.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">T=
o:</span></b> "ippm@ietf.org" &lt;ippm@ietf.org&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D"=
font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:56 AM<br=
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [ippm] FW: Sugg=
estions about draft "ippm-active-passive"<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"=
y_msg_container" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11263"><br>The latest dra=
ft is here:<br><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-morton-ippm-acti=
ve-passive-01.txt" target=3D"_blank" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11267=
">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-morton-ippm-active-passive-01.txt</a><br=
><br>This version benefits from Tizano's comments (see exchange below),<br>=
and very recent comments from Nalini and her colleague Bill.<br><br>regards=
,<br>Al<br><br>&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; From: Ionta Tiziano =
[mailto:<a ymailto=3D"mailto:tiziano.ionta@telecomitalia.it" href=3D"mailto=
:tiziano.ionta@telecomitalia.it" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424984235669_11264">ti=
ziano.ionta@telecomitalia.it</a>]<br>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 =
2:02 AM<br>&gt; To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)<br>&gt; Subject: R: Suggestions a=
bout draft "ippm-active-passive"<br>&gt; Importance: High<br>&gt; <br>&gt; =
Hi Al,<br>&gt; Thanks for your comments.<br>&gt; I agree with sharing this =
exchange with IPPM-list.<br>&gt; Regards<br>&gt; Tiziano<br>&gt; <br>&gt; <=
br>&gt; -----Messaggio originale-----<br>&gt; Da: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) [ma=
ilto:<a ymailto=3D"mailto:acmorton@att.com" href=3D"mailto:acmorton@att.com=
">acmorton@att.com</a>]<br>&gt; Inviato: luned=C3=AC 9 febbraio 2015 17.12<=
br>&gt; A: Ionta Tiziano<br>&gt; Oggetto: RE: Suggestions about draft "ippm=
-active-passive"<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Hi Tiziano,<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I just found=
 your message again, the one you sent before the holidays.<br>&gt; <br>&gt;=
 I think you are right with alternative 2, the method is a Hybrid.<br>&gt; =
<br>&gt; I agree that there may be more dimensions for comparison.<br>&gt; =
However, I think we should be sure that any dimensions are part of the<br>&=
gt; definitions.&nbsp; Also, we may only want to depict the two most import=
ant<br>&gt; dimensions in the graph, so it is easy to draw and help when we=
 compare<br>&gt; methods.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; It would be good to share this e=
xchange with IPPM-list, Do you agree?<br>&gt; <br>&gt; regards, and thanks =
for your comments and support, Al<br>&gt; <br>&gt; ________________________=
________________<br>&gt; From: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)<br>&gt; Sent: Sunday, =
February 08, 2015 5:17 PM<br>&gt; To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)<br>&gt; Subject=
: FW: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-passive"<br>&gt; <br>&gt; From: =
Ionta Tiziano [mailto:<a ymailto=3D"mailto:tiziano.ionta@telecomitalia.it" =
href=3D"mailto:tiziano.ionta@telecomitalia.it">tiziano.ionta@telecomitalia.=
it</a>]<br>&gt; Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 12:55 PM<br>&gt; To: MORT=
ON, ALFRED C (AL)<br>&gt; Subject: Suggestions about draft "ippm-active-pas=
sive"<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Hi Al,<br>&gt; as I promised, I'll try to summarize =
the suggestions I gave to you during<br>&gt; and after the IPPM WG Meeting =
at IETF91 regarding the draft "ippm-active-<br>&gt; passive" (whose set up =
I agree with):<br>&gt; <br>&gt; 1) The definition of Active and Passive Mea=
surements, as it is written in<br>&gt; the above mentioned draft, is probab=
ly to be enriched/modified somehow, so<br>&gt; to include the following con=
siderations (came out to make an appropriate<br>&gt; classification fit in =
the "colored traffic" measurement method):<br>&gt; 1.1) In accordance with =
the Passive Measurements definition, the "colored<br>&gt; traffic" measurem=
ent method does not have its own dedicated measurement<br>&gt; stream, thus=
 not increasing the overall traffic load. But.<br>&gt; 1.2) In accordance w=
ith the Active Measurements definition, the "colored<br>&gt; traffic" measu=
rement method does have specific fields dedicated to the<br>&gt; measuremen=
t.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; 2) Another hypothesis could be the following: instead o=
f changing the<br>&gt; definition of Active and/or Passive, the "colored tr=
affic" measurement<br>&gt; method could be classify as "Hybrid". Thus becau=
se, as I told above, the<br>&gt; "colored traffic" measurement method inclu=
des characteristics belonging to<br>&gt; both Active and Passive measuremen=
ts.<br>&gt; The last consideration is regarding the 2-dimensional graph pro=
posed in<br>&gt; the draft: surely it is an excellent "first approach", but=
 probably other<br>&gt; aspects must be taken into account (by the way.did =
anybody suggested new<br>&gt; variables after&nbsp; IETF91?), thus modifyin=
g the 2-dimensional graph in an n-<br>&gt; dimensional one. If this is the =
case, is still the n-dimensional graph the<br>&gt; best way of representati=
on?<br>&gt; Please keep in touch about this draft, because I believe this d=
ocument<br>&gt; will become a Milestone for the IPPM WG. Thus I'm very inte=
rested in a<br>&gt; solid contribution.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Thanks.<br>&gt; Be=
st<br>&gt; Tiziano<br>&gt; Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizz=
ati esclusivamente alle<br>&gt; persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qu=
alsiasi altra azione derivante<br>&gt; dalla conoscenza di queste informazi=
oni sono rigorosamente vietate.<br>&gt; Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo doc=
umento per errore siete cortesemente<br>&gt; pregati di darne immediata com=
unicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla<br>&gt; sua distruzione, Grazie=
.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may =
contain privileged<br>&gt; information intended for the addressee(s) only. =
Dissemination, copying,<br>&gt; printing or use by anybody else is unauthor=
ised. If you are not the<br>&gt; intended recipient, please delete this mes=
sage and any attachments and<br>&gt; advise the sender by return e-mail, Th=
anks.<br>&gt; [cid:<a ymailto=3D"mailto:00000000000000000000000000000003@TI=
.Disclaimer" href=3D"mailto:00000000000000000000000000000003@TI.Disclaimer"=
>00000000000000000000000000000003@TI.Disclaimer</a>]Rispetta l'ambiente.<br=
>&gt; Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=A8 necessario.<br>&gt; <br><br>__=
_____________________________________________<br>ippm mailing list<br><a ym=
ailto=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org">ippm@ietf.org<=
/a><br><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</a><br><br></div> </div> </=
div>  </div></body></html>
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