From nobody Mon Jan 4 08:33:40 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1731A8A63 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 08:33:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qHg7JEf9615a for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 08:33:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from usplmg20.ericsson.net (usplmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC75B1A8A58 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 08:33:30 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79d16d000001b1c-08-568a9d24b76e Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usplmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 0D.FE.06940.42D9A865; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 17:26:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 11:33:29 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-ippm-time-format-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHRRwqkoU0G/4DYTEy9P/JvP4G3mJ7rjBNA Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 16:33:28 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221975EC6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <20160104161157.12460.13394.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20160104161157.12460.13394.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgDQoNCg0K UGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhhdCBpdCBtYXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVzIGZyb20gdGhl IHRpbWUgb2Ygc3VibWlzc2lvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBh cmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KDQpUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0K DQo= From nobody Tue Jan 12 02:02:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6153A1A6FD8 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 02:02:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.98 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OrQgzxfsLLWm for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 02:02:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 548D41A6FDC for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 02:02:35 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_b9ac394b-7441-4c85-b2e9-d853a87c7152_" Received: from TELCAH003BA020.telecomitalia.local (10.188.101.218) by teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.101.210) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.266.1; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:02:31 +0100 Received: from TELMBB001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.2.211]) by telcah003ba020.telecomitalia.local ([10.188.101.218]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:02:30 +0100 From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] discussion about draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02 to be continued Thread-Index: AdFNIB5EwjFIx/AgTyieX4z8Om1Ghw== Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 10:02:29 +0000 Message-ID: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F0AC0C@TELMBB001BA020.telecomitalia.local> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.188.101.189] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] discussion about draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02 to be continued X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 10:02:39 -0000 --_b9ac394b-7441-4c85-b2e9-d853a87c7152_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F0AC0CTELMBB001BA020t_" --_000_23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F0AC0CTELMBB001BA020t_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, I would like to thank Mirja and Greg for their questions and comments at th= e presentation in Yokohama. Mirja said that the document still looks more what Telecom Italia have done= than a general document, but I'm working in order to improve this aspect, = although the alternate marking description is general and Telecom Italia im= plementation is just one of the mentioned use cases (e.g. RFC6374 Synonymou= s Flow Label, BIER OAM Performance Monitoring,...). Greg said that in BIER working group we did get 2-bits for marking and show= ed how it can be applied. This could be one of the use cases, as it is base= d on this document. The discussion suggests that this work is of interest to the IPPM WG. As Br= ian suggested, let's continue the discussion on the mailing list. I believe that draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02 could be ready for WG adoption afte= r some changes to the document structure. Comments and questions are always welcome, and I hope to get other suggesti= ons from IPPM WG. Regards, Giuseppe Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. [rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non ?= necessario. --_000_23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F0AC0CTELMBB001BA020t_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear All,

I would like to thank Mirja and= Greg for their questions and comments at the presentation in Yokohama.

Mirja said that the document st= ill looks more what Telecom Italia have done than a general document, but I= ’m working in order to improve this aspect, although the alternate ma= rking description is general and Telecom Italia implementation is just one of the mentioned use cases (e.g. RFC6374 Synony= mous Flow Label, BIER OAM Performance Monitoring,…).

Greg said that in BIER working = group we did get 2-bits for marking and showed how it can be applied. This = could be one of the use cases, as it is based on this document.<= /span>

The discussion suggests that th= is work is of interest to the IPPM WG. As Brian suggested, let’s cont= inue the discussion on the mailing list.

I believe that draft-tempia-ipp= m-p3m-02 could be ready for WG adoption after some changes to the document = structure.

Comments and questions are alwa= ys welcome, and I hope to get other suggestions from IPPM WG.

 

Regards,

 

Giuseppe

 

= Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigoro= samente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete= cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di pro= vvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only.= Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. I= f you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any at= tachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.

3D"rispettaRispetta= l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non è necessario.

--_000_23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F0AC0CTELMBB001BA020t_-- --_b9ac394b-7441-4c85-b2e9-d853a87c7152_ Content-Description: logo Ambiente_foglia2.jpg Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="logo Ambiente_foglia2.jpg" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="logo Ambiente_foglia2.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: 00000000000000000000000000000003@TI.Disclaimer R0lGODlhGgAoANU5AEiFNnikNyRvNcvYOafCOEOEW3DO3jB2NqjGs9ny9o+zOIOrN+L1+G+ggbzo 8GCUN1SNNv///zx+NrPJOL/ROYPV44zY5YuzmrfQwCZxQlKNaMXZzOfy8NTi2TV6TuLs5vX8/ez5 +4yzmtTj2cXr8mCXdKni62ycN5/f6aDf6X2qjrPl7rLl7Zu6OJbb53nS4PH188bs8sXZzfH18pq9 p0SDWxhnNWbL3NfgOf///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAEAADkALAAAAAAaACgAAAb/wJxw SBQ6WMWkMmm6kZbQ5OvmjFoT1JuBYYWmsrcXqJvEgm8WctFypnI66pyjfXMhCmqGgR4r2S5dIBV0 FjI2h3BRX20VHAUCEjZ4UHNtFo42BA+HCEskbQYOIwU2CjgBNgAZM0kMbSYcIjYCBDg4LTYLf0V6 YCghNBk2DwO2OASZqkS9VBYMCB6pE8bGucidOYJUoaOptdQTFDg2ATgHGkIs2wyyAqbUtgICCwfl uh8ge1sNNhDF8LYiHYKAg4INBJUS8FsAEF6AA6lsHWjg4gYKDDZONGwIAIAtCAX2hPAgYSNHj6ds 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dkAS6FMJzTfa for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:59:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it (teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.211]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 588A71B2ECC for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:59:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from TELCAH002BA020.telecomitalia.local (10.188.101.216) by teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.101.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.266.1; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:59:10 +0100 Received: from TELMBB001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.2.211]) by TELCAH002BA020.telecomitalia.local ([10.188.101.216]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:59:10 +0100 From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: Gregory Mirsky , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-ippm-time-format-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHRRwqkoU0G/4DYTEy9P/JvP4G3mJ7rjBNAgA4Y2CA= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:59:09 +0000 Message-ID: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F0C750@TELMBB001BA020.telecomitalia.local> References: <20160104161157.12460.13394.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221975EC6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221975EC6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.188.101.189] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] R: FW: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-ippm-time-format-02.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:59:24 -0000 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mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3wtQjS5MNaGG; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:10:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72E2A1A00D4; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:10:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 07DA318019E; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:09:44 -0800 (PST) To: Huck.Zhao@alcatel-lucent.com, acmorton@att.com, lencia@att.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Message-Id: <20160113180944.07DA318019E@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:09:44 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ippm@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC6038 (4258) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 18:10:36 -0000 The following errata report has been held for document update for RFC6038, "Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6038&eid=4258 -------------------------------------- Status: Held for Document Update Type: Editorial Reported by: Huck Zhao Date Reported: 2015-02-04 Held by: Spencer Dawkins (IESG) Section: 4.3 Original Text ------------- Last bullet on Page 8: Section 4.1.2 defines... Corrected Text -------------- Section 5.1.2 defines... Notes ----- (There's actually not a section 4.1.2 in this RFC) -------------------------------------- RFC6038 (draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-reflect-octets-09) -------------------------------------- Title : Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features Publication Date : October 2010 Author(s) : A. Morton, L. Ciavattone Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : IP Performance Metrics Area : Transport Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Wed Jan 13 10:13:25 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB81B1B3059; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:13:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zb-Wu0le38pC; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:13:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F261B3055; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:13:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 1B51F18019E; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:12:33 -0800 (PST) To: Huck.Zhao@alcatel-lucent.com, acmorton@att.com, lencia@att.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Message-Id: <20160113181233.1B51F18019E@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:12:33 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ippm@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC6038 (4259) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 18:13:25 -0000 The following errata report has been held for document update for RFC6038, "Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6038&eid=4259 -------------------------------------- Status: Held for Document Update Type: Editorial Reported by: Huck Zhao Date Reported: 2015-02-04 Held by: Spencer Dawkins (IESG) Section: 5.2 Original Text ------------- o Symmetrical Size mode: The Session-Reflector MUST operate using the Session_Reflector Packet Format defined in Section 5.1.4, where the Padding Octets are separated from the information fields. Section 5.1.4 defines Session_Sender Packet Format. Corrected Text -------------- o Symmetrical Size mode: The Session-Reflector MUST operate using the Session_Sender Packet Format defined in Section 5.1.4, where the Padding Octets are separated from the information fields. Notes ----- This is just dropping a sentence that repeats what was just said previously. -------------------------------------- RFC6038 (draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-reflect-octets-09) -------------------------------------- Title : Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Reflect Octets and Symmetrical Size Features Publication Date : October 2010 Author(s) : A. Morton, L. Ciavattone Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : IP Performance Metrics Area : Transport Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Thu Jan 21 05:08:37 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A401B30F7; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 05:08:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160121130832.29584.46953.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 05:08:32 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 13:08:32 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 4.3: would it be worth noting (here or elsewhere) that this seems to be a hard thing to do with non-e2e ciphertext, e.g. part way along a VPN path From nobody Thu Jan 21 07:17:49 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D261B31D9; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 07:17:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s0PBCt2WN-QH; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 07:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pink.research.att.com (mail-pink.research.att.com [204.178.8.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A63FE1B31D4; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 07:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (unknown [135.207.178.11]) by mail-pink.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC8D120086; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 10:18:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njfpsrvexg0.research.att.com [135.207.255.124]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30FB7F03B9; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 10:16:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com ([fe80::108a:1006:9f54:fd90]) by NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com ([fe80::108a:1006:9f54:fd90%25]) with mapi; Thu, 21 Jan 2016 10:16:27 -0500 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: The IESG Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 10:16:25 -0500 Thread-Topic: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdFUTNs79YNmUePjREmQY6MBfc7dxwADDEJw Message-ID: <4AF73AA205019A4C8A1DDD32C034631D2E26B7D0AA@NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com> References: <20160121130832.29584.46953.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20160121130832.29584.46953.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 15:17:43 -0000 Hi IESG, A consolidated reply to all follows. Thanks for your reviews, comments, and kind words of encouragement. Al > -----Original Message----- > From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Farrell > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:09 AM ... >=20 ... > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > 4.3: would it be worth noting (here or elsewhere) that > this seems to be a hard thing to do with non-e2e ciphertext, > e.g. part way along a VPN path >=20 Stephen: Yes, I agree and will note this. It's also a comment for the I-D.tempia-opsawg-p3m and I-D.chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework = drafts, and a point to note in the "Effects of Ubiquitous Encryption" draft. Also, Carl Wallace prepared the Sec-Dir review, and we have agreed on adding an explanation of "PDM" in section 4.1 to address his suggestion.=20 Joel: > Jouni Korhonen performed the opsdir review Jouni's comments arrived during IETF Last Call, and they were addressed in version 05. Alvaro: > Just a nit.. Section 3. (Terms and Definitions) says that the=20 > "definitions are consistent with [I-D.zheng-ippm-framework-passive]." =20 > Shouldn't it be the other way around? Yes, I'll fix that aspect. Jari: Brian Carpenter's comment LC was addressed, as you have noted. Alissa, Benoit, Martin, Spencer, and Terry: Thanks for your +1s! From nobody Sat Jan 23 08:18:19 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 077241B38DC; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 08:18:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160123161816.4603.35176.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 08:18:16 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive-06.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:18:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : Active and Passive Metrics and Methods (and everything in-between, or Hybrid) Author : Al Morton Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive-06.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2016-01-23 Abstract: This memo provides clear definitions for Active and Passive performance assessment. The construction of Metrics and Methods can be described as Active or Passive. Some methods may use a subset of both active and passive attributes, and we refer to these as Hybrid Methods. This memo also describes multiple dimensions to help evaluate new methods as they emerge. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Jan 24 19:07:38 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE591A1B29 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2016 19:07:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mwxVTz-ntdSI for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2016 19:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06C9F1A1B28 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2016 19:07:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CHJ52715; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 03:07:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.71) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 03:06:55 +0000 Received: from SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.177]) by SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.71]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 11:06:48 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHRVxydKn7wz0B0M0OsDWksPR7/8J8Li3Jw Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 03:06:48 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090203.56A59173.0002, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.177, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a09e57bea10491f86caedb8c07348c3f Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 03:07:36 -0000 SGkgSVBQTWVycywNCg0KVGhpcyB1cGRhdGUgaXMganVzdCB0byBrZWVwIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBh bGl2ZS4gV2UgcmVjZWl2ZWQgc29tZSBjb21tZW50cyBvZmZsaW5lLCB3ZSdkIGFwcHJlY2lhdGUg dGhhdCB0aGVyZSB3aWxsIGJlIG1vcmUgcGVvcGxlIHdobyBjb3VsZCBzcGVuZCBzb21lIHRpbWUg dG8gcmV2aWV3IHRoZSBkcmFmdCBhbmQgc2VuZCB0aGUgY29tbWVudHMuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCk1h Y2gNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IGludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0Bp ZXRmLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOmludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gDQpTZW50OiBNb25kYXks IEphbnVhcnkgMjUsIDIwMTYgMTE6MDEgQU0NClRvOiBNYWNoIENoZW47IEdyZWcgTWlyc2t5OyBW ZXJvIFpoZW5nOyBNYWNoIENoZW47IEdpdXNlcHBlIEZpb2Njb2xhDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBOZXcgVmVy c2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0LWNoZW4taXBwbS1jb2xvcmluZy1iYXNlZC1pcGZw bS1mcmFtZXdvcmstMDUudHh0DQoNCg0KQSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBJLUQsIGRyYWZ0LWNoZW4t aXBwbS1jb2xvcmluZy1iYXNlZC1pcGZwbS1mcmFtZXdvcmstMDUudHh0DQpoYXMgYmVlbiBzdWNj ZXNzZnVsbHkgc3VibWl0dGVkIGJ5IE1hY2goR3VveWkpIENoZW4gYW5kIHBvc3RlZCB0byB0aGUg SUVURiByZXBvc2l0b3J5Lg0KDQpOYW1lOgkJZHJhZnQtY2hlbi1pcHBtLWNvbG9yaW5nLWJhc2Vk LWlwZnBtLWZyYW1ld29yaw0KUmV2aXNpb246CTA1DQpUaXRsZToJCUlQIEZsb3cgUGVyZm9ybWFu Y2UgTWVhc3VyZW1lbnQgRnJhbWV3b3JrDQpEb2N1bWVudCBkYXRlOgkyMDE2LTAxLTI0DQpHcm91 cDoJCUluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3VibWlzc2lvbg0KUGFnZXM6CQkxNg0KVVJMOiAgICAgICAgICAgIGh0 dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0cy9kcmFmdC1jaGVuLWlwcG0tY29sb3Jp bmctYmFzZWQtaXBmcG0tZnJhbWV3b3JrLTA1LnR4dA0KU3RhdHVzOiAgICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8v ZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWNoZW4taXBwbS1jb2xvcmluZy1iYXNlZC1p cGZwbS1mcmFtZXdvcmsvDQpIdG1saXplZDogICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9o dG1sL2RyYWZ0LWNoZW4taXBwbS1jb2xvcmluZy1iYXNlZC1pcGZwbS1mcmFtZXdvcmstMDUNCkRp ZmY6ICAgICAgICAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9yZmNkaWZmP3VybDI9ZHJhZnQtY2hl bi1pcHBtLWNvbG9yaW5nLWJhc2VkLWlwZnBtLWZyYW1ld29yay0wNQ0KDQpBYnN0cmFjdDoNCiAg IFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgc3BlY2lmaWVzIGEgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnQgbWV0aG9kLCB0aGUgSVAgZmxv dyBwZXJmb3JtYW5jZQ0KICAgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnQgKElQRlBNKS4gIFdpdGggSVBGUE0sIGRhdGEg cGFja2V0cyBhcmUgbWFya2VkIGludG8NCiAgIGRpZmZlcmVudCBibG9ja3Mgb2YgbWFya2VycyBi eSBjaGFuZ2luZyBvbmUgb3IgbW9yZSBiaXRzIG9mIHBhY2tldHMuDQogICBObyBhZGRpdGlvbmFs IGRlbGltaXRpbmcgcGFja2V0IGlzIG5lZWRlZCBhbmQgdGhlIHBlcmZvcm1hbmNlIGlzDQogICBt ZWFzdXJlZCBpbi1zZXJ2aWNlIGFuZCBpbi1iYW5kIHdpdGhvdXQgdGhlIGluc2VydGlvbiBvZiBh ZGRpdGlvbmFsDQogICB0cmFmZmljLg0KDQoNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICANCg0K DQpQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0aGF0IGl0IG1heSB0YWtlIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIG1pbnV0ZXMgZnJvbSB0 aGUgdGltZSBvZiBzdWJtaXNzaW9uIHVudGlsIHRoZSBodG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGFuZCBkaWZm IGFyZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQgdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcuDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0 DQoNCg== From nobody Mon Jan 25 11:30:28 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2618E1A0011; 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Mon, 25 Jan 2016 14:30:23 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Mach Chen , "ippm@ietf.org" , "BIER (bier@ietf.org)" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHRVxydMPW2bbzMJku8YNE87JBhIJ8Li3JwgAES5IA= Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:30:23 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221993DB4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221993DB4eusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupkkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLrHW3df+bIwg0mtIhZLZ+xhsuh58I7Z 4sJaYQdmj5Yjb1k9liz5yRTAFMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CVsfHuUcaCK5kVsx59Z25gPBjbxcjJ ISFgInHk5SpmCFtM4sK99WxdjFwcQgJHGCUmL21lBEkICSxnlDg2LQ3EZhMwknixsYcdxBYR yJc41H8KzBYWSJRY1fSVBSKeJHFg1zRWCNtK4vX/BrA5LAKqEp+2HwWL8wr4Sqx8sIUZYn6o RMOt+WBzOAXCJCbfagSLMwId9P3UGiYQm1lAXOLWk/lMEIcKSCzZcx7qaFGJl4//sULYShKT lp4DsjmA6vMl3u8VhFglKHFy5hOWCYwis5BMmoVQNQtJFUSJjsSC3Z/YIGxtiWULXzPD2GcO PGZCFl/AyL6KkaO0uCAnN93IcBMjMIKOSbA57mDc2+t5iFGAg1GJh3dDwbIwIdbEsuLK3EOM EhzMSiK8//mAQrwpiZVVqUX58UWlOanFhxilOViUxHm38C8KExJITyxJzU5NLUgtgskycXBK NTBOZ2la7njmubR8+lHR+T+CNiyMXHqwmsfv89b5FXYObjOvqjYu1a7bFGR/feWHKBkfvybv 0rbZ95OdjV0WeL6+FN7ZXML8U5r5/IFmlg2Ri4JMrpgklUz5WfvpUX7Xg2n8c1IEzFM/ZFxf sP/IoxNTCxYXl2joa36oU3qVWsMRX9v3rUGOr0qJpTgj0VCLuag4EQBuPwbNnAIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:30:27 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221993DB4eusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear BIERers (I like its sound), this work is closely related to Performance Measurement (PM) with Marking M= ethod in Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) Layer. Your questions, comments on both or any of the drafts are always welcome an= d greatly appreciated. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mach Chen Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 7:07 PM To: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-b= ased-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Hi IPPMers, This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some comments o= ffline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who could spend some= time to review the draft and send the comments. Thanks, Mach -----Original Message----- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org] Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola Subject: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-= framework-05.txt A new version of I-D, draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to the IETF = repository. Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework Revision: 05 Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework Document date: 2016-01-24 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 16 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-colori= ng-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-b= ased-ipfpm-framework/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-= ipfpm-framework-05 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-ippm-colorin= g-based-ipfpm-framework-05 Abstract: This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional traffic. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221993DB4eusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear BIERers (I like its sound),

this work is closely related to Performance Measurement (PM) with Marking Method in Bit Index Explicit Repl= ication (BIER) Layer.

Your questions, comments on both or any of the dr= afts are always welcome and greatly appreciated.

 

        &= nbsp;       Regards,

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;           Greg

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mach Chen
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 7:07 PM
To: ippm@ietf.org
Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-b= ased-ipfpm-framework-05.txt

 

Hi IPPMers,

 

This update is just to keep the document alive. W= e received some comments offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more p= eople who could spend some time to review the draft and send the comments.<= o:p>

 

Thanks,

Mach

 

-----Original Message-----

From: internet-drafts@ietf= .org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]

Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM

To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen= ; Giuseppe Fioccola

Subject: New Version Notification for draft-chen-= ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt

 

 

A new version of I-D, draft-chen-ippm-coloring-ba= sed-ipfpm-framework-05.txt

has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Ch= en and posted to the IETF repository.

 

Name:       &n= bsp;          draft-chen-ippm-= coloring-based-ipfpm-framework

Revision:      &nbs= p;       05

Title:       &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;  IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework

Document date:      = ;         2016-01-24

Group:       &= nbsp;          Individual Subm= ission

Pages:       &= nbsp;           16

URL:       &nb= sp;    https://www.ietf.org/= internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt

Status:       =   https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework/=

Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.or= g/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05

Diff:       &n= bsp;   https://www.ietf.org/= rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05=

 

Abstract:

   This document specifies a measuremen= t method, the IP flow performance

   measurement (IPFPM).  With IPFP= M, data packets are marked into

   different blocks of markers by chang= ing one or more bits of packets.

   No additional delimiting packet is n= eeded and the performance is

   measured in-service and in-band with= out the insertion of additional

   traffic.

 

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;          

 

 

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes = from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are availab= le at tools.ietf.org.

 

The IETF Secretariat

 

_______________________________________________

ippm mailing list

ippm@ietf.org

https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221993DB4eusaamb103erics_-- From nobody Mon Jan 25 13:47:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 599CC1A1A0B for ; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:47:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N7pkQFHq39hF for ; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:47:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnet.fi.uba.ar (cnet.fi.uba.ar [157.92.58.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 109811A1A32 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:47:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1F046140077; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 18:36:34 -0300 (ART) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1143714006C; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 18:36:34 -0300 (ART) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 18:36:33 -0300 (ART) From: "J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin" X-X-Sender: ihameli@cnet To: Mach Chen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.10 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323329-324187487-1453757794=:13145" Archived-At: Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 21:47:06 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --8323329-324187487-1453757794=:13145 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hi IPPMers, I have just read this draft version, and below are my comments. Page 4: "An additional method consists in taking into account the average arrival time of the packets within a single block (i.e. the same block of markers used for packet loss measurement)." and the following sentences... Since packet delay is highly variable (e.g., self-similar traffic at Internet edges), I suggest to use the median instead of average; this *estimator* will be less biased by rare events. Page 5: "Type of Service (TOS)" Should be: "Type of Service (ToS)" Page 8: "This requires that the upstream and downstream MAs having a certain time synchronization capability (e.g., supporting the Network Time Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol (PTP) [IEEE1588].) The PN is calculated as the modulo of the local time (when the counts or timestamps are read) and the interval of the marking time period." It could be interesting to include a brief comment about precision of both methods (because the errors of the one-way measurements depend on timestamp precision). Even though NTP and PTP synchronization methods are widely accepted, this document may consider forthcoming novel methods. Best regards, J.Ignacio _______________________________________________________________ CONICET and Facultad de Ingeniería, Universidad de Buenos Aires Av. Paseo Colón 850 - C1063ACV - Buenos Aires - Argentina +54 (11) 4343-0891 / 4343-2775 ext 299 e-mail: ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar web: http://cnet.fi.uba.ar/ignacio.alvarez-hamelin/ _______________________________________________________________ On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: > Hi IPPMers, > > This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some comments offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who could spend some time to review the draft and send the comments. > > Thanks, > Mach > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM > To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > > > A new version of I-D, draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to the IETF repository. > > Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework > Revision: 05 > Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework > Document date: 2016-01-24 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 16 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05 > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05 > > Abstract: > This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance > measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into > different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. > No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is > measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional > traffic. > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --8323329-324187487-1453757794=:13145-- From nobody Tue Jan 26 01:41:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99F391A8894 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:41:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.266 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8B0j6RlTuUa8 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:41:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-0016f401.pphosted.com (mx0b-0016f401.pphosted.com [67.231.156.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 039781A8893 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:41:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0045851.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-0016f401.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id u0Q9eGOJ000359; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:41:14 -0800 Received: from il-exch02.marvell.com ([199.203.130.102]) by mx0b-0016f401.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 20np7sjqbc-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:41:14 -0800 Received: from IL-EXCH01.marvell.com (10.4.102.220) by IL-EXCH02.marvell.com (10.4.102.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:41:12 +0200 Received: from IL-EXCH01.marvell.com ([fe80::5d63:81cd:31e2:fc36]) by IL-EXCH01.marvell.com ([fe80::5d63:81cd:31e2:fc36%20]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:41:12 +0200 From: Tal Mizrahi To: Mach Chen , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHRVxydKn7wz0B0M0OsDWksPR7/8J8Li3JwgAH93YA= Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 09:41:11 +0000 Message-ID: <2f0676e8539144adaa1323a225f54019@IL-EXCH01.marvell.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.4.102.210] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-01-26_03:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1507310008 definitions=main-1601260176 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 09:41:25 -0000 Hi Mach,=20 I have read the draft and I believe it certainly worth pursuing in the IPPM= WG. A couple of comments: 1. Section 6 discusses the need for synchronization. Note that while this i= s true for one-way delay measurement, *two-way* delay measurement does not = require the two MAs to be accurately synchronized.=20 However, since the Period Number is derived from the time-of-day, MAs shoul= d be synchronized with an accuracy of +/- 0.5*period to guarantee consisten= t period numbering. 2. Regarding the Security Considerations section, you may want to consider = adding: (1) Network reconnaissance. (2) Attacks on the synchronization prot= ocol that may compromise the measurement. Best regards, Tal Mizrahi. >-----Original Message----- >From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mach Chen >Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 5:07 AM >To: ippm@ietf.org >Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring- >based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > >Hi IPPMers, > >This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some comments >offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who could spend so= me >time to review the draft and send the comments. > >Thanks, >Mach > >-----Original Message----- >From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM >To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola >Subject: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm= - >framework-05.txt > > >A new version of I-D, draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework- >05.txt >has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to the IETF >repository. > >Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework >Revision: 05 >Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework >Document date: 2016-01-24 >Group: Individual Submission >Pages: 16 >URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-color= ing- >based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-= based- >ipfpm-framework/ >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based= - >ipfpm-framework-05 >Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-ippm-colori= ng-based- >ipfpm-framework-05 > >Abstract: > This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance > measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into > different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. > No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is > measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional > traffic. > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissi= on >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >The IETF Secretariat > >_______________________________________________ >ippm mailing list >ippm@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From nobody Tue Jan 26 05:22:15 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A6451A89A0 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 05:22:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bPcCQ9Oj-F8s for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 05:22:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnet.fi.uba.ar (cnet.fi.uba.ar [157.92.58.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09A481A8992 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 05:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC521140077 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 10:11:38 -0300 (ART) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at cnet.fi.uba.ar Received: from cnet.fi.uba.ar ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (cnet.fi.uba.ar [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YcWQkaqruuub for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 10:11:32 -0300 (ART) Received: from MacBook-Pro-de-Esteban.local (unknown [157.92.51.227]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB5C014006C for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 10:11:32 -0300 (ART) To: "ippm@ietf.org" From: Esteban Carisimo Message-ID: <56A772F8.7030606@cnet.fi.uba.ar> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 10:22:00 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070503060000080600010200" Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 13:22:14 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070503060000080600010200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everybody, I'm Esteban Carisimo, I'm a PhD candidate at University of Buenos Aires and I've been working with active measurements on my PhD Thesis. I've read the draft https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00.txt and I've got a little suggestion about it. At page 5, the draft propose using "Average delay", however, the nature of the delay might highly affect the average of a certain block. I suggest to use median delay rather than mean delay, or at least use both, to reduce the variation of the parameter. As I've told before, I've been doing some active measurements and I'd like to share an analysis that shows the advantage of median over mean. This analysis consist in analyzing the minimum, maximum, mean and median values of a dataset of RTT hour by hour. In order to obtain the RTTs we did a traceroute per second to the default gateway during a week. The attached graph shows that the mean is very sensitible with the maximum's increasement while the median keeps almost flat. 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PCAvVHlwZSAvRm9udCAvU3VidHlwZSAvVHlwZTEgL05hbWUgL0YzIC9CYXNlRm9udCAvSGVs dmV0aWNhLUJvbGQKL0VuY29kaW5nIDkgMCBSID4+CmVuZG9iagp4cmVmCjAgMTIKMDAwMDAw MDAwMCA2NTUzNSBmIAowMDAwMDAwMDIxIDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMDAxNjMgMDAwMDAgbiAK MDAwMDAwNjQyMiAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDA2NTA1IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMDY2MjggMDAw MDAgbiAKMDAwMDAwNjY2MSAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDAwMjEyIDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMDAy OTIgMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAwOTM1NiAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDA5NjEzIDAwMDAwIG4gCjAw MDAwMDk3MTAgMDAwMDAgbiAKdHJhaWxlcgo8PCAvU2l6ZSAxMiAvSW5mbyAxIDAgUiAvUm9v dCAyIDAgUiA+PgpzdGFydHhyZWYKOTgxMgolJUVPRgo= --------------070503060000080600010200-- From nobody Tue Jan 26 06:40:03 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E56A1B2A2F; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 06:40:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160126144001.30693.27210.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 06:40:01 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ippm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org, The IESG , rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [ippm] Document Action: 'Active and Passive Metrics and Methods (and everything in-between, or Hybrid)' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive-06.txt) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 14:40:01 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Active and Passive Metrics and Methods (and everything in-between, or Hybrid)' (draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive-06.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Spencer Dawkins and Martin Stiemerling. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-active-passive/ Technical Summary This memo provides clear definitions for Active and Passive performance assessment. The construction of Metrics and Methods can be described as Active or Passive. Some methods may use a subset of both active and passive attributes, and we refer to these as Hybrid Methods. Working Group Summary The document was extensively discussed in the working group, and was written in direct response to confusion about the terms it defines in other discussions within the WG. It has been well reviewed and there exists no controversy about it. Document Quality The document is of high quality, succinctly defining the terms it sets out to, and explaining them with useful examples. That's probably as much as we can expect from a document about definitions. Personnel Brian Trammell is the document shepherd. Spencer Dawkins is the responsible AD. From nobody Wed Jan 27 00:54:53 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 716451B36C9 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 00:54:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MAEHj4ZtO-x0 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 00:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A54911B36C8 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 00:54:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CDM88081; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:54:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.72) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:54:46 +0000 Received: from SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.177]) by SZXEMA413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.72]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:54:34 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Tal Mizrahi , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHRVxydKn7wz0B0M0OsDWksPR7/8J8Li3JwgAH93YCAAYbdMA== Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:54:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2f0676e8539144adaa1323a225f54019@IL-EXCH01.marvell.com> In-Reply-To: <2f0676e8539144adaa1323a225f54019@IL-EXCH01.marvell.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.56A885D7.00E3, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.177, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ccf1a0c9a5406a80102b5e1a794fdc15 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:54:52 -0000 Hi Tal, Thanks for reading the draft and your valuable comments! Please see my replies inline.. > -----Original Message----- > From: Tal Mizrahi [mailto:talmi@marvell.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 5:41 PM > To: Mach Chen; ippm@ietf.org > Subject: RE: New Version Notification for > draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >=20 > Hi Mach, >=20 > I have read the draft and I believe it certainly worth pursuing in the IP= PM WG. Thanks! >=20 > A couple of comments: >=20 > 1. Section 6 discusses the need for synchronization. Note that while this= is true > for one-way delay measurement, *two-way* delay measurement does not > require the two MAs to be accurately synchronized. Yes. > However, since the Period Number is derived from the time-of-day, MAs sho= uld > be synchronized with an accuracy of +/- 0.5*period to guarantee consisten= t > period numbering. I am not sure that the "+/- 0.5" will apply to all the case, but I agree th= at there should be some text to discuss this accuracy related stuff.=20 >=20 > 2. Regarding the Security Considerations section, you may want to conside= r > adding: (1) Network reconnaissance. (2) Attacks on the synchronization > protocol that may compromise the measurement. Good idea, that will be great if you could provide some proposed text! Thanks, Mach >=20 > Best regards, > Tal Mizrahi. >=20 >=20 > >-----Original Message----- > >From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mach Chen > >Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 5:07 AM > >To: ippm@ietf.org > >Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for > >draft-chen-ippm-coloring- based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > > > >Hi IPPMers, > > > >This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some > >comments offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who > >could spend some time to review the draft and send the comments. > > > >Thanks, > >Mach > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > >Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM > >To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola > >Subject: New Version Notification for > >draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm- > >framework-05.txt > > > > > >A new version of I-D, draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework- > >05.txt > >has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to the > >IETF repository. > > > >Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework > >Revision: 05 > >Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework > >Document date: 2016-01-24 > >Group: Individual Submission > >Pages: 16 > >URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring- > >based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > >Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based- > >ipfpm-framework/ > >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-bas= ed- > >ipfpm-framework-05 > >Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-ippm-coloring-based- > >ipfpm-framework-05 > > > >Abstract: > > This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance > > measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into > > different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. > > No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is > > measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional > > traffic. > > > > > > > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > >submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ie= tf.org. > > > >The IETF Secretariat > > > >_______________________________________________ > >ippm mailing list > >ippm@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From nobody Wed Jan 27 01:11:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E051B372E for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 01:11:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WqpiI9W1ngpe for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 01:11:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 818511B372B for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 01:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CHM64359; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:11:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML708-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.202) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:11:01 +0000 Received: from SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.71) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.202) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:11:01 +0000 Received: from SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.177]) by SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.71]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:09:02 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: "J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin" Thread-Topic: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHRVxydKn7wz0B0M0OsDWksPR7/8J8Li3JwgACxI4CAAs9qMA== Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:09:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090202.56A889A7.0106, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.177, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 7e24e8bf8cf71a4e9e1585c6a965a3d3 Archived-At: Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:11:10 -0000 Hi J.Ignacio, Thanks for your review and the comments! Please see my response inline... > -----Original Message----- > From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J. Ignacio > Alvarez-Hamelin > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 5:37 AM > To: Mach Chen > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for > draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >=20 > Hi IPPMers, >=20 >=20 > I have just read this draft version, and below are my comments. Thanks! >=20 >=20 > Page 4: >=20 > "An additional method consists in taking into account the average arri= val > time of the packets within a single block (i.e. the same block of > markers used for packet loss measurement)." and the following > sentences... >=20 > Since packet delay is highly variable (e.g., self-similar traffic at Inte= rnet edges), > I suggest to use the median instead of average; this > *estimator* will be less biased by rare events. Good suggestion, but sometime people may just want average, maybe both can = be mentioned here. How do you think? >=20 >=20 >=20 > Page 5: >=20 > "Type of Service (TOS)" >=20 > Should be: "Type of Service (ToS)" OK. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Page 8: >=20 > "This > requires that the upstream and downstream MAs having a certain time > synchronization capability (e.g., supporting the Network Time > Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol > (PTP) [IEEE1588].) The PN is calculated as the modulo of the local > time (when the counts or timestamps are read) and the interval of the > marking time period." >=20 > It could be interesting to include a brief comment about precision of bot= h > methods (because the errors of the one-way measurements depend on > timestamp precision). I do not have the figures at hand, we'd appreciate if you or someone else c= an provide the figures, then we may add this information to document as ref= erence. > Even though NTP and PTP synchronization methods are widely accepted, this > document may consider forthcoming novel methods. IMHO, NTP and PTP are just two examples, this document does not exclude any= other methods.=20 Do you have a specific method in mind? Or just want to give an rough descri= ption here. How about this? To add an "etc" at the end. (e.g., supporting the Network Time Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol (PTP) [IEEE1588], etc.) Thanks, Mach >=20 >=20 >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > J.Ignacio >=20 > _______________________________________________________________ >=20 > CONICET and Facultad de Ingenier=EDa, Universidad de Buenos Aires Av. Pas= eo > Col=F3n 850 - C1063ACV - Buenos Aires - Argentina > +54 (11) 4343-0891 / 4343-2775 ext 299 > e-mail: ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar > web: http://cnet.fi.uba.ar/ignacio.alvarez-hamelin/ > _______________________________________________________________ >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: >=20 > > Hi IPPMers, > > > > This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some commen= ts > offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who could spend s= ome > time to review the draft and send the comments. > > > > Thanks, > > Mach > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM > > To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola > > Subject: New Version Notification for > > draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > > > > > > A new version of I-D, > > draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to the I= ETF > repository. > > > > Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework > > Revision: 05 > > Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework > > Document date: 2016-01-24 > > Group: Individual Submission > > Pages: 16 > > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm= -fra > mework-05.txt > > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-fra= mew > ork/ > > Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framewor= k-0 > 5 > > Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-= frame > work-05 > > > > Abstract: > > This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance > > measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into > > different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. > > No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is > > measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional > > traffic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ippm mailing list > > ippm@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > From nobody Wed Jan 27 05:14:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F26F1A90FE for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 05:14:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x_q8BEX-UHZG for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 05:14:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnet.fi.uba.ar (cnet.fi.uba.ar [157.92.58.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE9521A90F9 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 05:14:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix, from userid 1000) id ADA06140077; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:03:47 -0300 (ART) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FD7714006C for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:03:47 -0300 (ART) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:03:47 -0300 (ART) From: "J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin" X-X-Sender: ihameli@cnet To: "ippm@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.10 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323329-1916732263-1453899827=:27502" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:14:26 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --8323329-1916732263-1453899827=:27502 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hi Math, also inline answers On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: > Hi J.Ignacio, > > Thanks for your review and the comments! > > Please see my response inline... > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J. Ignacio >> Alvarez-Hamelin >> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 5:37 AM >> To: Mach Chen >> Cc: ippm@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for >> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >> >> Hi IPPMers, >> >> >> I have just read this draft version, and below are my comments. > > Thanks! > >> >> >> Page 4: >> >> "An additional method consists in taking into account the average arrival >> time of the packets within a single block (i.e. the same block of >> markers used for packet loss measurement)." and the following >> sentences... >> >> Since packet delay is highly variable (e.g., self-similar traffic at Internet edges), >> I suggest to use the median instead of average; this >> *estimator* will be less biased by rare events. > > Good suggestion, but sometime people may just want average, maybe both can be mentioned here. How do you think? Yes, I agree, we can mention both (I know that average seems simpler, but I was thinking on that the average is a biased estimator while the median is not). >> >> >> >> Page 5: >> >> "Type of Service (TOS)" >> >> Should be: "Type of Service (ToS)" > > OK. > >> >> >> >> Page 8: >> >> "This >> requires that the upstream and downstream MAs having a certain time >> synchronization capability (e.g., supporting the Network Time >> Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol >> (PTP) [IEEE1588].) The PN is calculated as the modulo of the local >> time (when the counts or timestamps are read) and the interval of the >> marking time period." >> >> It could be interesting to include a brief comment about precision of both >> methods (because the errors of the one-way measurements depend on >> timestamp precision). > > I do not have the figures at hand, we'd appreciate if you or someone > else can provide the figures, then we may add this information to > document as reference. > >> Even though NTP and PTP synchronization methods are widely accepted, this >> document may consider forthcoming novel methods. > > IMHO, NTP and PTP are just two examples, this document does not exclude any other methods. > > Do you have a specific method in mind? Or just want to give an rough description here. How about this? To add an "etc" at the end. > > (e.g., supporting the Network Time > Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol > (PTP) [IEEE1588], etc.) Yes, I think this should be good. Perhaps we can also add a comment to get an idea about their precision like: Using NTP one can get precision aground milliseconds while PTP can achieve microseconds (and nanoseconds while it is used in a LAN). > > Thanks, > Mach > Thanks to you >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> J.Ignacio >> >> _______________________________________________________________ >> >> CONICET and Facultad de Ingeniería, Universidad de Buenos Aires Av. Paseo >> Colón 850 - C1063ACV - Buenos Aires - Argentina >> +54 (11) 4343-0891 / 4343-2775 ext 299 >> e-mail: ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar >> web: http://cnet.fi.uba.ar/ignacio.alvarez-hamelin/ >> _______________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: >> >>> Hi IPPMers, >>> >>> This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some comments >> offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who could spend some >> time to review the draft and send the comments. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Mach >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >>> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM >>> To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola >>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>> >>> >>> A new version of I-D, >>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>> has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to the IETF >> repository. >>> >>> Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework >>> Revision: 05 >>> Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework >>> Document date: 2016-01-24 >>> Group: Individual Submission >>> Pages: 16 >>> URL: >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-fra >> mework-05.txt >>> Status: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framew >> ork/ >>> Htmlized: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-0 >> 5 >>> Diff: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-frame >> work-05 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance >>> measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into >>> different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. >>> No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is >>> measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional >>> traffic. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> The IETF Secretariat >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ippm mailing list >>> ippm@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >>> > --8323329-1916732263-1453899827=:27502-- From nobody Wed Jan 27 07:57:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53FAA1A897B for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:56:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y8tmkx5Xmkcw for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:56:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 220301A8977 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:56:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from TELCAH002BA020.telecomitalia.local (10.188.101.216) by teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.101.210) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.266.1; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:56:53 +0100 Received: from TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.1.141]) by TELCAH002BA020.telecomitalia.local ([10.188.101.216]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:56:52 +0100 From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: Mach Chen , Tal Mizrahi , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHRVxydg8S1AlnGf0OUxoHIlLhryJ8Li3JwgAHw8oCAAYVOAIAAhlwA Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 15:56:52 +0000 Message-ID: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F2AD89@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> References: <2f0676e8539144adaa1323a225f54019@IL-EXCH01.marvell.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.14.252.30] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] R: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 15:56:59 -0000 Hi Tal, All Thanks for your comments. Regarding MAs synchronization, I agree with you. The clock error between the MAs has to be less than +/- P/2 time units, wh= ere P is the Period length. In this way each colored packet can be assigned= to the right batch by a MA. This is because the minimum time distance betw= een two packets of the same color but belonging to different batches is P t= ime units. In fact we need to wait P/2 time units after the foreseen color = changing in order to read the still counter of the previous color, so we mi= nimize the possibility to read a running counter instead of a still one. I think your comment is relevant. We touched on this issue in draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02, I suggest you to read= also draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02 that is the companion document of draft-chen= -ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05. I hope this is helpful. Regards, Giuseppe -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Mach Chen Inviato: mercoled=EC 27 gennaio 2016 09:55 A: Tal Mizrahi; ippm@ietf.org Oggetto: Re: [ippm] New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-b= ased-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Hi Tal, Thanks for reading the draft and your valuable comments! Please see my replies inline.. > -----Original Message----- > From: Tal Mizrahi [mailto:talmi@marvell.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 5:41 PM > To: Mach Chen; ippm@ietf.org > Subject: RE: New Version Notification for > draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > > Hi Mach, > > I have read the draft and I believe it certainly worth pursuing in the IP= PM WG. Thanks! > > A couple of comments: > > 1. Section 6 discusses the need for synchronization. Note that while > this is true for one-way delay measurement, *two-way* delay > measurement does not require the two MAs to be accurately synchronized. Yes. > However, since the Period Number is derived from the time-of-day, MAs > should be synchronized with an accuracy of +/- 0.5*period to guarantee > consistent period numbering. I am not sure that the "+/- 0.5" will apply to all the case, but I agree th= at there should be some text to discuss this accuracy related stuff. > > 2. Regarding the Security Considerations section, you may want to > consider > adding: (1) Network reconnaissance. (2) Attacks on the synchronization > protocol that may compromise the measurement. Good idea, that will be great if you could provide some proposed text! Thanks, Mach > > Best regards, > Tal Mizrahi. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mach Chen > >Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 5:07 AM > >To: ippm@ietf.org > >Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for > >draft-chen-ippm-coloring- based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > > > >Hi IPPMers, > > > >This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some > >comments offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who > >could spend some time to review the draft and send the comments. > > > >Thanks, > >Mach > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > >Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM > >To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola > >Subject: New Version Notification for > >draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm- > >framework-05.txt > > > > > >A new version of I-D, draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework- > >05.txt > >has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to the > >IETF repository. > > > >Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework > >Revision: 05 > >Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework > >Document date: 2016-01-24 > >Group: Individual Submission > >Pages: 16 > >URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring- > >based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > >Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based- > >ipfpm-framework/ > >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-bas= ed- > >ipfpm-framework-05 > >Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-ippm-coloring-based- > >ipfpm-framework-05 > > > >Abstract: > > This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance > > measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into > > different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. > > No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is > > measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional > > traffic. > > > > > > > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > >submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ie= tf.org. > > > >The IETF Secretariat > > > >_______________________________________________ > >ippm mailing list > >ippm@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. From nobody Wed Jan 27 08:48:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB5B1A900A for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:48:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vr4JcbkBJaMB for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:48:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it (teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.211]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A6F31A9008 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from TELCAH004BA020.telecomitalia.local (10.188.101.220) by teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.101.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.266.1; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:47:58 +0100 Received: from TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.1.141]) by telcah004ba020.telecomitalia.local ([10.188.101.220]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:47:57 +0100 From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHRVxydg8S1AlnGf0OUxoHIlLhryJ8Li3JwgAEmfICAAlPPAIAAQZeAgAAdLBA= Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:47:57 +0000 Message-ID: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F2AE49@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.188.101.186] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] R: FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:48:15 -0000 Hi J.Ignacio, All many thanks for your comments. I agree with you: the median value is a better estimator than the average v= alue, but I take the opportunity to clarify why we choose the average delay= . Your understanding is right, the average delay is a smart way to calculate = the delay. It is simple to calculate because the network devices update the average ti= mestamp for each received marking packet and don't need to collect any time= stamp, so it greatly reduces the number of timestamps that have to be colle= cted by the management system. On the other hand, it only gives one measur= e for the duration of the block and it doesn't give the minimum, maximum an= d median delay values. This limitation could be overcome by reducing the du= ration of the block (f.i. from 5 minutes to a few seconds) by means of an h= ighly optimized implementation of the method. But if we want to know more about the statistic distribution of delay value= s, the other approach can be considered: you can periodically mark packets = in the IP flow, the timestamps have to be collected by the management syste= m, that can calculate the minimum, the maximum and the median delay values. What do you think? I suggest you to read also draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02, that is the companion = document of draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05, where the di= fferent alternatives for the delay calculation are explained. Best Regards, Giuseppe -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di J. Ignacio Alvarez-Ham= elin Inviato: mercoled=EC 27 gennaio 2016 14:04 A: ippm@ietf.org Oggetto: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-colori= ng-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Hi Math, also inline answers On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: > Hi J.Ignacio, > > Thanks for your review and the comments! > > Please see my response inline... > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J. Ignacio >> Alvarez-Hamelin >> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 5:37 AM >> To: Mach Chen >> Cc: ippm@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for >> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >> >> Hi IPPMers, >> >> >> I have just read this draft version, and below are my comments. > > Thanks! > >> >> >> Page 4: >> >> "An additional method consists in taking into account the average arr= ival >> time of the packets within a single block (i.e. the same block of >> markers used for packet loss measurement)." and the following >> sentences... >> >> Since packet delay is highly variable (e.g., self-similar traffic at >> Internet edges), I suggest to use the median instead of average; this >> *estimator* will be less biased by rare events. > > Good suggestion, but sometime people may just want average, maybe both ca= n be mentioned here. How do you think? Yes, I agree, we can mention both (I know that average seems simpler, but I= was thinking on that the average is a biased estimator while the median is= not). >> >> >> >> Page 5: >> >> "Type of Service (TOS)" >> >> Should be: "Type of Service (ToS)" > > OK. > >> >> >> >> Page 8: >> >> "This >> requires that the upstream and downstream MAs having a certain time >> synchronization capability (e.g., supporting the Network Time >> Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol >> (PTP) [IEEE1588].) The PN is calculated as the modulo of the local >> time (when the counts or timestamps are read) and the interval of th= e >> marking time period." >> >> It could be interesting to include a brief comment about precision of bo= th >> methods (because the errors of the one-way measurements depend on >> timestamp precision). > > I do not have the figures at hand, we'd appreciate if you or someone > else can provide the figures, then we may add this information to > document as reference. > >> Even though NTP and PTP synchronization methods are widely accepted, thi= s >> document may consider forthcoming novel methods. > > IMHO, NTP and PTP are just two examples, this document does not exclude a= ny other methods. > > Do you have a specific method in mind? Or just want to give an rough desc= ription here. How about this? To add an "etc" at the end. > > (e.g., supporting the Network Time > Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol > (PTP) [IEEE1588], etc.) Yes, I think this should be good. Perhaps we can also add a comment to get an idea about their precision like: Using NTP one can get precision aground milliseconds while PTP can achieve microseconds (and nanoseconds while it is used in a LAN). > > Thanks, > Mach > Thanks to you >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> J.Ignacio >> >> _______________________________________________________________ >> >> CONICET and Facultad de Ingenier=EDa, Universidad de Buenos Aires Av. Pa= seo >> Col=F3n 850 - C1063ACV - Buenos Aires - Argentina >> +54 (11) 4343-0891 / 4343-2775 ext 299 >> e-mail: ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar >> web: http://cnet.fi.uba.ar/ignacio.alvarez-hamelin/ >> _______________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: >> >>> Hi IPPMers, >>> >>> This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some commen= ts >> offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who could spend = some >> time to review the draft and send the comments. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Mach >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >>> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM >>> To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola >>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>> >>> >>> A new version of I-D, >>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>> has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to the I= ETF >> repository. >>> >>> Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework >>> Revision: 05 >>> Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework >>> Document date: 2016-01-24 >>> Group: Individual Submission >>> Pages: 16 >>> URL: >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfp= m-fra >> mework-05.txt >>> Status: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-fr= amew >> ork/ >>> Htmlized: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framewo= rk-0 >> 5 >>> Diff: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm= -frame >> work-05 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance >>> measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into >>> different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. >>> No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is >>> measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional >>> traffic. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> The IETF Secretariat >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ippm mailing list >>> ippm@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >>> > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. From nobody Wed Jan 27 08:57:30 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712D21A9132 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:57:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RcE3qHKVsOma for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:57:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it (teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.211]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 097701A903C for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:57:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from TELCAH003BA020.telecomitalia.local (10.188.101.218) by teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.101.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.266.1; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:57:25 +0100 Received: from TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.1.141]) by telcah003ba020.telecomitalia.local ([10.188.101.218]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:57:24 +0100 From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: Esteban Carisimo , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00 Thread-Index: AQHRWDyhWpJDwFEogkCpkImLYr0r0J8PAJJQ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:57:24 +0000 Message-ID: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F2AEA6@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> References: <56A772F8.7030606@cnet.fi.uba.ar> In-Reply-To: <56A772F8.7030606@cnet.fi.uba.ar> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.188.101.186] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] R: draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:57:29 -0000 SGkgRXN0ZWJhbiwNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgcmVhZGluZyB0aGUgZHJhZnQgYW5kIGZvciB5b3VyIGlu dGVyZXN0aW5nIGNvbW1lbnRzLg0KUmVnYXJkaW5nIHlvdXIgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbnMsIEkgYWxzbyBi ZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgdGhlIG1lZGlhbiB2YWx1ZSBpcyBhIGJldHRlciBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgYnV0 IHlvdSBuZWVkIHRvIGtub3cgdGhlIGRlbGF5IGZvciBlYWNoIHBhY2tldCBpbiBvcmRlciB0byBj YWxjdWxhdGUgdGhlIG1lZGlhbiB2YWx1ZS4NCkF2ZXJhZ2UgZGVsYXkgY291bGQgYmUgYSBnb29k IGV2YWx1YXRpb24gZm9yIHRoZSBkZWxheSBpZiB3ZSBjaG9vc2UgYSBzaG9ydCBtYXJraW5nIGlu dGVydmFsLCBzbyB3ZSBoYXZlIGxlc3MgZGVsYXkgdmFyaWFiaWxpdHkuDQpXZSBwcm9wb3NlZCB0 d28gY2hvaWNlcyBmb3IgYWN0aXZlIHBlcmZvcm1hbmNlIG1lYXN1cmVtZW50czoNCi0gRGVsYXkg Zm9yIGVhY2ggcGFja2V0OiBpbiB0aGlzIGNhc2Ugd2UgY2FuIGNhbGN1bGF0ZSBtYXhpbXVtLCBt aW5pbXVtLCBhdmVyYWdlIGFuZCBtZWRpYW4uDQotIEF2ZXJhZ2UgRGVsYXk6IGluIHRoaXMgY2Fz ZSB3ZSBjYWxjdWxhdGUgdGhlIGF2ZXJhZ2UgZGVsYXkgd2l0aG91dCBleGNoYW5naW5nIGRhdGEg YmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgdHdvIGVuZCBwb2ludHMuIEl0IGlzIGEgc21hcnQgd2F5IHRvIGV2YWx1YXRl IGRlbGF5IHdpdGggYSBsb3cgY29tcHV0YXRpb25hbCBsb2FkIG9uIGEgbmV0d29yayBlbGVtZW50 LCBiZWNhdXNlIHlvdSBkb24ndCBuZWVkIHRvIHRyYW5zbWl0IGFsbCB0aGUgdGltZXN0YW1wcyBi dXQgb25seSB0aGUgYXZlcmFnZSB0aW1lc3RhbXAuDQpJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgd2UgY2FuIGFkZCB5 b3VyIHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gaW4gdGhlIERlbGF5IG1lYXN1cmVtZW50IHNlY3Rpb24uDQpXaGF0IGRv IHlvdSB0aGluaz8NCkkgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSB5b3VyIGNvbW1lbnQgYW5kIEkgc3VnZ2VzdCB5b3Ug dG8gcmVhZCBhbHNvIHRoZSByZWxhdGVkIGRvY3VtZW50IGRyYWZ0LXRlbXBpYS1pcHBtLXAzbS0w MiwgdGhhdCBpcyBhYm91dCBwYXNzaXZlIHBlcmZvcm1hbmNlIG1lYXN1cmVtZW50cy4NCg0KUmVn YXJkcywNCg0KR2l1c2VwcGUNCg0KLS0tLS1NZXNzYWdnaW8gb3JpZ2luYWxlLS0tLS0NCkRhOiBp cHBtIFttYWlsdG86aXBwbS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBQZXIgY29udG8gZGkgRXN0ZWJhbiBD YXJpc2ltbw0KSW52aWF0bzogbWFydGVkw6wgMjYgZ2VubmFpbyAyMDE2IDE0OjIyDQpBOiBpcHBt QGlldGYub3JnDQpPZ2dldHRvOiBbaXBwbV0gZHJhZnQtZmlvY2NvbGEtaXBwbS1yZmM2ODEyLWFs dC1tYXJrLWV4dC0wMA0KDQpIaSBldmVyeWJvZHksDQoNCkknbSBFc3RlYmFuIENhcmlzaW1vLCBJ J20gYSBQaEQgY2FuZGlkYXRlIGF0IFVuaXZlcnNpdHkgb2YgQnVlbm9zIEFpcmVzIGFuZCBJJ3Zl IGJlZW4gd29ya2luZyB3aXRoIGFjdGl2ZSBtZWFzdXJlbWVudHMgb24gbXkgUGhEIFRoZXNpcy4N Cg0KSSd2ZSByZWFkIHRoZSBkcmFmdA0KaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9pZC9kcmFmdC1m aW9jY29sYS1pcHBtLXJmYzY4MTItYWx0LW1hcmstZXh0LTAwLnR4dCBhbmQgSSd2ZSBnb3QgYSBs aXR0bGUgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbiBhYm91dCBpdC4gQXQgcGFnZSA1LCB0aGUgZHJhZnQgcHJvcG9zZSB1 c2luZyAiQXZlcmFnZSBkZWxheSIsIGhvd2V2ZXIsIHRoZSBuYXR1cmUgb2YgdGhlIGRlbGF5IG1p Z2h0IGhpZ2hseSBhZmZlY3QgdGhlIGF2ZXJhZ2Ugb2YgYSBjZXJ0YWluIGJsb2NrLiBJIHN1Z2dl c3QgdG8gdXNlIG1lZGlhbiBkZWxheSByYXRoZXIgdGhhbiBtZWFuIGRlbGF5LCBvciBhdCBsZWFz dCB1c2UgYm90aCwgdG8gcmVkdWNlIHRoZSB2YXJpYXRpb24gb2YgdGhlIHBhcmFtZXRlci4gQXMg SSd2ZSB0b2xkIGJlZm9yZSwgSSd2ZSBiZWVuIGRvaW5nIHNvbWUgYWN0aXZlIG1lYXN1cmVtZW50 cyBhbmQgSSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gc2hhcmUgYW4gYW5hbHlzaXMgdGhhdCBzaG93cyB0aGUgYWR2YW50 YWdlIG9mIG1lZGlhbiBvdmVyIG1lYW4uDQoNClRoaXMgYW5hbHlzaXMgY29uc2lzdCBpbiBhbmFs eXppbmcgdGhlIG1pbmltdW0sIG1heGltdW0sIG1lYW4gYW5kIG1lZGlhbiB2YWx1ZXMgb2YgYSBk YXRhc2V0IG9mIFJUVCBob3VyIGJ5IGhvdXIuIEluIG9yZGVyIHRvIG9idGFpbiB0aGUgUlRUcyB3 ZSBkaWQgYSB0cmFjZXJvdXRlIHBlciBzZWNvbmQgdG8gdGhlIGRlZmF1bHQgZ2F0ZXdheSBkdXJp bmcgYSB3ZWVrLiBUaGUgYXR0YWNoZWQgZ3JhcGggc2hvd3MgdGhhdCB0aGUgbWVhbiBpcyB2ZXJ5 IHNlbnNpdGlibGUgd2l0aCB0aGUgbWF4aW11bSdzIGluY3JlYXNlbWVudCB3aGlsZSB0aGUgbWVk aWFuIGtlZXBzIGFsbW9zdCBmbGF0Lg0KDQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkVzdGViYW4NCg0KDQpR dWVzdG8gbWVzc2FnZ2lvIGUgaSBzdW9pIGFsbGVnYXRpIHNvbm8gaW5kaXJpenphdGkgZXNjbHVz aXZhbWVudGUgYWxsZSBwZXJzb25lIGluZGljYXRlLiBMYSBkaWZmdXNpb25lLCBjb3BpYSBvIHF1 YWxzaWFzaSBhbHRyYSBhemlvbmUgZGVyaXZhbnRlIGRhbGxhIGNvbm9zY2VuemEgZGkgcXVlc3Rl IGluZm9ybWF6aW9uaSBzb25vIHJpZ29yb3NhbWVudGUgdmlldGF0ZS4gUXVhbG9yYSBhYmJpYXRl IHJpY2V2dXRvIHF1ZXN0byBkb2N1bWVudG8gcGVyIGVycm9yZSBzaWV0ZSBjb3J0ZXNlbWVudGUg cHJlZ2F0aSBkaSBkYXJuZSBpbW1lZGlhdGEgY29tdW5pY2F6aW9uZSBhbCBtaXR0ZW50ZSBlIGRp IHByb3Z2ZWRlcmUgYWxsYSBzdWEgZGlzdHJ1emlvbmUsIEdyYXppZS4NCg0KVGhpcyBlLW1haWwg YW5kIGFueSBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBpcyBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgYW5kIG1heSBjb250YWluIHByaXZp bGVnZWQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gaW50ZW5kZWQgZm9yIHRoZSBhZGRyZXNzZWUocykgb25seS4gRGlz c2VtaW5hdGlvbiwgY29weWluZywgcHJpbnRpbmcgb3IgdXNlIGJ5IGFueWJvZHkgZWxzZSBpcyB1 bmF1dGhvcmlzZWQuIElmIHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQsIHBsZWFz ZSBkZWxldGUgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBhbnkgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgYW5kIGFkdmlzZSB0aGUg c2VuZGVyIGJ5IHJldHVybiBlLW1haWwsIFRoYW5rcy4NCg0K From nobody Thu Jan 28 07:48:29 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164171A8BC2 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 07:48:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fe8-3nQU4vPg for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 07:48:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnet.fi.uba.ar (cnet.fi.uba.ar [157.92.58.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3ED91A904D for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 07:48:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F37140077; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:37:43 -0300 (ART) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at cnet.fi.uba.ar Received: from cnet.fi.uba.ar ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (cnet.fi.uba.ar [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UaFv423bhrQF; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:37:37 -0300 (ART) Received: from MacBook-Pro-de-Esteban.local (unknown [157.92.51.227]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AB0CD14006C; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:37:37 -0300 (ART) To: Fioccola Giuseppe , "ippm@ietf.org" References: <56A772F8.7030606@cnet.fi.uba.ar> <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F2AEA6@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> From: Esteban Carisimo Message-ID: <56AA383E.2020905@cnet.fi.uba.ar> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:48:14 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F2AEA6@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060909030800070609090103" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] R: draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:48:28 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060909030800070609090103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Giussepe, Before keep on discussing about mean and median value on the delay, I have to say that there is a previous RFC, which was written by this group (I mean IPPM), which is RFC 6703 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6703). In this work the authors discuss about advantages and disadvantages of mean and median value of the latency. I think the knowledge of this RFC might solve the issue of the median and mean. I have been thinking about what you said that Average delay could suffer little variation in small time windows. However, we should define what is a small time inteval. For example, I did a few pings from my laptop to 8.8.8.8 and check this out: 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=0 ttl=56 time=4.987 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=4.882 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=2 ttl=56 time=4.933 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=3 ttl=56 time=4.501 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=4 ttl=56 time=5.048 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=5 ttl=56 time=5.283 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=6 ttl=56 time=4.556 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=7 ttl=56 time=4.582 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=8 ttl=56 time=89.366 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=9 ttl=56 time=108.486 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=10 ttl=56 time=101.605 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=11 ttl=56 time=5.737 ms ^C --- 8.8.8.8 ping statistics --- 12 packets transmitted, 12 packets received, 0.0% packet loss round-trip min/*avg*/max/stddev = 4.501/*28.664*/108.486/41.273 ms *median=5.0175* Doing just 12 pings, with a time window of 12 seconds we figured out that mean is 28ms while median is 5 ms. I know that the delay measurements on this RFC will be done in a different way but we should check which might be a proper time window in order to get an appropiate mean value. However, I agree with mean value is quite simple to be calculated. I think we should be concerned about the overload on the routers produced by any kind of measurements. Best regards, Esteban El 27/1/16 a las 13:57, Fioccola Giuseppe escribió: > Hi Esteban, > Thanks for reading the draft and for your interesting comments. > Regarding your suggestions, I also believe that the median value is a better information, but you need to know the delay for each packet in order to calculate the median value. > Average delay could be a good evaluation for the delay if we choose a short marking interval, so we have less delay variability. > We proposed two choices for active performance measurements: > - Delay for each packet: in this case we can calculate maximum, minimum, average and median. > - Average Delay: in this case we calculate the average delay without exchanging data between the two end points. It is a smart way to evaluate delay with a low computational load on a network element, because you don't need to transmit all the timestamps but only the average timestamp. > I think that we can add your suggestion in the Delay measurement section. > What do you think? > I appreciate your comment and I suggest you to read also the related document draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02, that is about passive performance measurements. > > Regards, > > Giuseppe > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Esteban Carisimo > Inviato: martedì 26 gennaio 2016 14:22 > A: ippm@ietf.org > Oggetto: [ippm] draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00 > > Hi everybody, > > I'm Esteban Carisimo, I'm a PhD candidate at University of Buenos Aires and I've been working with active measurements on my PhD Thesis. > > I've read the draft > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00.txt and I've got a little suggestion about it. At page 5, the draft propose using "Average delay", however, the nature of the delay might highly affect the average of a certain block. I suggest to use median delay rather than mean delay, or at least use both, to reduce the variation of the parameter. As I've told before, I've been doing some active measurements and I'd like to share an analysis that shows the advantage of median over mean. > > This analysis consist in analyzing the minimum, maximum, mean and median values of a dataset of RTT hour by hour. In order to obtain the RTTs we did a traceroute per second to the default gateway during a week. The attached graph shows that the mean is very sensitible with the maximum's increasement while the median keeps almost flat. > > Best regards, > > Esteban > > > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie. > > This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks. > --------------060909030800070609090103 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Giussepe,
  
    Before keep on discussing about mean and median value on the delay, I have to say that there is a previous RFC, which was written by this group (I mean IPPM), which is RFC 6703 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6703). In this work the authors discuss about advantages and disadvantages of mean and median value of the latency. I think the knowledge of this RFC might solve the issue  of the median and mean.

    I have been thinking about what you said that Average delay could suffer little variation in small time windows. However, we should define what is a small time inteval. For example, I did a few pings from my laptop to 8.8.8.8 and check this out:

    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=0 ttl=56 time=4.987 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=4.882 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=2 ttl=56 time=4.933 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=3 ttl=56 time=4.501 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=4 ttl=56 time=5.048 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=5 ttl=56 time=5.283 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=6 ttl=56 time=4.556 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=7 ttl=56 time=4.582 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=8 ttl=56 time=89.366 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=9 ttl=56 time=108.486 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=10 ttl=56 time=101.605 ms
    64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=11 ttl=56 time=5.737 ms
    ^C
    --- 8.8.8.8 ping statistics ---
    12 packets transmitted, 12 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
    round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 4.501/28.664/108.486/41.273 ms

    median=5.0175

    Doing just 12 pings, with a time window of 12 seconds we figured out that mean is 28ms while median is 5 ms.
I know that the delay measurements on this RFC will be done in a different way but we should check which might be a proper time window in order to get an appropiate mean value.

    However, I agree with mean value is quite simple to be calculated. I think we should be concerned about the overload on the routers produced by any kind of measurements.

Best regards,

Esteban

El 27/1/16 a las 13:57, Fioccola Giuseppe escribió:
Hi Esteban,
Thanks for reading the draft and for your interesting comments.
Regarding your suggestions, I also believe that the median value is a better information, but you need to know the delay for each packet in order to calculate the median value.
Average delay could be a good evaluation for the delay if we choose a short marking interval, so we have less delay variability.
We proposed two choices for active performance measurements:
- Delay for each packet: in this case we can calculate maximum, minimum, average and median.
- Average Delay: in this case we calculate the average delay without exchanging data between the two end points. It is a smart way to evaluate delay with a low computational load on a network element, because you don't need to transmit all the timestamps but only the average timestamp.
I think that we can add your suggestion in the Delay measurement section.
What do you think?
I appreciate your comment and I suggest you to read also the related document draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02, that is about passive performance measurements.

Regards,

Giuseppe

-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Esteban Carisimo
Inviato: martedì 26 gennaio 2016 14:22
A: ippm@ietf.org
Oggetto: [ippm] draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00

Hi everybody,

I'm Esteban Carisimo, I'm a PhD candidate at University of Buenos Aires and I've been working with active measurements on my PhD Thesis.

I've read the draft
https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00.txt and I've got a little suggestion about it. At page 5, the draft propose using "Average delay", however, the nature of the delay might highly affect the average of a certain block. I suggest to use median delay rather than mean delay, or at least use both, to reduce the variation of the parameter. As I've told before, I've been doing some active measurements and I'd like to share an analysis that shows the advantage of median over mean.

This analysis consist in analyzing the minimum, maximum, mean and median values of a dataset of RTT hour by hour. In order to obtain the RTTs we did a traceroute per second to the default gateway during a week. The attached graph shows that the mean is very sensitible with the maximum's increasement while the median keeps almost flat.

Best regards,

Esteban


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--------------060909030800070609090103-- From nobody Thu Jan 28 09:12:20 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 684821A89FD for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:12:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pcSHdEJWc44C for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:12:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4019B1A89FA for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:12:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from TELCAH003BA020.telecomitalia.local (10.188.101.218) by teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.101.210) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.266.1; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:12:11 +0100 Received: from TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.1.141]) by telcah003ba020.telecomitalia.local ([10.188.101.218]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:12:11 +0100 From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHRVxydg8S1AlnGf0OUxoHIlLhryJ8Li3JwgAHw8oCAAYVOAIAAhlwAgAGj9WA= Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:12:11 +0000 Message-ID: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F30DB6@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> References: <2f0676e8539144adaa1323a225f54019@IL-EXCH01.marvell.com> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.14.252.44] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] R: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:12:18 -0000 "i'm not sure if the whole IPPM WG list received my email so i'm sending a = copy" Hi Tal, All Thanks for your comments. Regarding MAs synchronization, I agree with you. The clock error between the MAs has to be less than +/- P/2 time units, wh= ere P is the Period length. In this way each colored packet can be assigned= to the right batch by a MA. This is because the minimum time distance betw= een two packets of the same color but belonging to different batches is P t= ime units. In fact we need to wait P/2 time units after the foreseen color = changing in order to read the still counter of the previous color, so we mi= nimize the possibility to read a running counter instead of a still one. I think your comment is relevant. We touched on this issue in draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02, I suggest you to read= also draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02 that is the companion document of draft-chen= -ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05. I hope this is helpful. Regards, Giuseppe -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Mach Chen Inviato: mercoled=EC 27 gennaio 2016 09:55 A: Tal Mizrahi; ippm@ietf.org Oggetto: Re: [ippm] New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-b= ased-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Hi Tal, Thanks for reading the draft and your valuable comments! Please see my replies inline.. > -----Original Message----- > From: Tal Mizrahi [mailto:talmi@marvell.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 5:41 PM > To: Mach Chen; ippm@ietf.org > Subject: RE: New Version Notification for > draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > > Hi Mach, > > I have read the draft and I believe it certainly worth pursuing in the IP= PM WG. Thanks! > > A couple of comments: > > 1. Section 6 discusses the need for synchronization. Note that while > this is true for one-way delay measurement, *two-way* delay > measurement does not require the two MAs to be accurately synchronized. Yes. > However, since the Period Number is derived from the time-of-day, MAs > should be synchronized with an accuracy of +/- 0.5*period to guarantee > consistent period numbering. I am not sure that the "+/- 0.5" will apply to all the case, but I agree th= at there should be some text to discuss this accuracy related stuff. > > 2. Regarding the Security Considerations section, you may want to > consider > adding: (1) Network reconnaissance. (2) Attacks on the synchronization > protocol that may compromise the measurement. Good idea, that will be great if you could provide some proposed text! Thanks, Mach > > Best regards, > Tal Mizrahi. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mach Chen > >Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 5:07 AM > >To: ippm@ietf.org > >Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for > >draft-chen-ippm-coloring- based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > > > >Hi IPPMers, > > > >This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some > >comments offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who > >could spend some time to review the draft and send the comments. > > > >Thanks, > >Mach > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > >Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM > >To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola > >Subject: New Version Notification for > >draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm- > >framework-05.txt > > > > > >A new version of I-D, draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework- > >05.txt > >has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to the > >IETF repository. > > > >Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework > >Revision: 05 > >Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework > >Document date: 2016-01-24 > >Group: Individual Submission > >Pages: 16 > >URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring- > >based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > >Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based- > >ipfpm-framework/ > >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-bas= ed- > >ipfpm-framework-05 > >Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-ippm-coloring-based- > >ipfpm-framework-05 > > > >Abstract: > > This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance > > measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into > > different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. > > No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is > > measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional > > traffic. > > > > > > > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > >submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ie= tf.org. > > > >The IETF Secretariat > > > >_______________________________________________ > >ippm mailing list > >ippm@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. From nobody Thu Jan 28 09:13:46 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063771A89F5 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:13:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eodr88_2B4G5 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:13:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D5CB1A88AD for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:13:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from TELCAH004BA020.telecomitalia.local (10.188.101.220) by teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.101.210) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.266.1; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:13:39 +0100 Received: from TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.1.141]) by telcah004ba020.telecomitalia.local ([10.188.101.220]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:13:39 +0100 From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHRVxydg8S1AlnGf0OUxoHIlLhryJ8Li3JwgAEmfICAAlPPAIAAQZeAgAAdLBCAAcuK0A== Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:13:38 +0000 Message-ID: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F30DC5@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> References: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.14.252.44] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] R: FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:13:45 -0000 "i'm not sure if the whole IPPM WG list received my email so i'm sending a = copy" Hi J.Ignacio, All many thanks for your comments. I agree with you: the median value is a better estimator than the average v= alue, but I take the opportunity to clarify why we choose the average delay= . Your understanding is right, the average delay is a smart way to calculate = the delay. It is simple to calculate because the network devices update the average ti= mestamp for each received marking packet and don't need to collect any time= stamp, so it greatly reduces the number of timestamps that have to be colle= cted by the management system. On the other hand, it only gives one measur= e for the duration of the block and it doesn't give the minimum, maximum an= d median delay values. This limitation could be overcome by reducing the du= ration of the block (f.i. from 5 minutes to a few seconds) by means of an h= ighly optimized implementation of the method. But if we want to know more about the statistic distribution of delay value= s, the other approach can be considered: you can periodically mark packets = in the IP flow, the timestamps have to be collected by the management syste= m, that can calculate the minimum, the maximum and the median delay values. What do you think? I suggest you to read also draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02, that is the companion = document of draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05, where the di= fferent alternatives for the delay calculation are explained. Best Regards, Giuseppe -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di J. Ignacio Alvarez-Ham= elin Inviato: mercoled=EC 27 gennaio 2016 14:04 A: ippm@ietf.org Oggetto: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-colori= ng-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Hi Math, also inline answers On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: > Hi J.Ignacio, > > Thanks for your review and the comments! > > Please see my response inline... > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J. Ignacio >> Alvarez-Hamelin >> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 5:37 AM >> To: Mach Chen >> Cc: ippm@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for >> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >> >> Hi IPPMers, >> >> >> I have just read this draft version, and below are my comments. > > Thanks! > >> >> >> Page 4: >> >> "An additional method consists in taking into account the average arr= ival >> time of the packets within a single block (i.e. the same block of >> markers used for packet loss measurement)." and the following >> sentences... >> >> Since packet delay is highly variable (e.g., self-similar traffic at >> Internet edges), I suggest to use the median instead of average; this >> *estimator* will be less biased by rare events. > > Good suggestion, but sometime people may just want average, maybe both ca= n be mentioned here. How do you think? Yes, I agree, we can mention both (I know that average seems simpler, but I= was thinking on that the average is a biased estimator while the median is= not). >> >> >> >> Page 5: >> >> "Type of Service (TOS)" >> >> Should be: "Type of Service (ToS)" > > OK. > >> >> >> >> Page 8: >> >> "This >> requires that the upstream and downstream MAs having a certain time >> synchronization capability (e.g., supporting the Network Time >> Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol >> (PTP) [IEEE1588].) The PN is calculated as the modulo of the local >> time (when the counts or timestamps are read) and the interval of th= e >> marking time period." >> >> It could be interesting to include a brief comment about precision of >> both methods (because the errors of the one-way measurements depend >> on timestamp precision). > > I do not have the figures at hand, we'd appreciate if you or someone > else can provide the figures, then we may add this information to > document as reference. > >> Even though NTP and PTP synchronization methods are widely accepted, >> this document may consider forthcoming novel methods. > > IMHO, NTP and PTP are just two examples, this document does not exclude a= ny other methods. > > Do you have a specific method in mind? Or just want to give an rough desc= ription here. How about this? To add an "etc" at the end. > > (e.g., supporting the Network Time > Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol > (PTP) [IEEE1588], etc.) Yes, I think this should be good. Perhaps we can also add a comment to get = an idea about their precision like: Using NTP one can get precision aground milliseconds while PTP can achieve microseconds (and nanoseconds while it is used in a LAN). > > Thanks, > Mach > Thanks to you >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> J.Ignacio >> >> _______________________________________________________________ >> >> CONICET and Facultad de Ingenier=EDa, Universidad de Buenos Aires Av. >> Paseo Col=F3n 850 - C1063ACV - Buenos Aires - Argentina >> +54 (11) 4343-0891 / 4343-2775 ext 299 >> e-mail: ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar >> web: http://cnet.fi.uba.ar/ignacio.alvarez-hamelin/ >> _______________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: >> >>> Hi IPPMers, >>> >>> This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some >>> comments >> offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who could >> spend some time to review the draft and send the comments. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Mach >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >>> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM >>> To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola >>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>> >>> >>> A new version of I-D, >>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>> has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to >>> the IETF >> repository. >>> >>> Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework >>> Revision: 05 >>> Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework >>> Document date: 2016-01-24 >>> Group: Individual Submission >>> Pages: 16 >>> URL: >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-i >> pfpm-fra >> mework-05.txt >>> Status: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm >> -framew >> ork/ >>> Htmlized: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-fram >> ework-0 >> 5 >>> Diff: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfp >> m-frame >> work-05 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance >>> measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into >>> different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. >>> No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is >>> measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional >>> traffic. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> The IETF Secretariat >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ippm mailing list >>> ippm@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >>> > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. From nobody Thu Jan 28 09:14:37 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4EB1A8A07 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:14:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FLWsr94K_41g for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:14:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3B671A8A04 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:14:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from TELCAH003BA020.telecomitalia.local (10.188.101.218) by teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.101.210) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.266.1; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:14:32 +0100 Received: from TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.1.141]) by telcah003ba020.telecomitalia.local ([10.188.101.218]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:14:32 +0100 From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00 Thread-Index: AQHRWDyhWpJDwFEogkCpkImLYr0r0J8PAJJQgAItgRA= Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:14:31 +0000 Message-ID: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F30DD2@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> References: <56A772F8.7030606@cnet.fi.uba.ar> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.14.252.44] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] R: draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:14:36 -0000 ImknbSBub3Qgc3VyZSBpZiB0aGUgd2hvbGUgSVBQTSBXRyBsaXN0IHJlY2VpdmVkIG15IGVtYWls IHNvIGknbSBzZW5kaW5nIGEgY29weSINCg0KSGkgRXN0ZWJhbiwNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgcmVhZGlu ZyB0aGUgZHJhZnQgYW5kIGZvciB5b3VyIGludGVyZXN0aW5nIGNvbW1lbnRzLg0KUmVnYXJkaW5n IHlvdXIgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbnMsIEkgYWxzbyBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgdGhlIG1lZGlhbiB2YWx1ZSBp cyBhIGJldHRlciBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgYnV0IHlvdSBuZWVkIHRvIGtub3cgdGhlIGRlbGF5IGZv ciBlYWNoIHBhY2tldCBpbiBvcmRlciB0byBjYWxjdWxhdGUgdGhlIG1lZGlhbiB2YWx1ZS4NCkF2 ZXJhZ2UgZGVsYXkgY291bGQgYmUgYSBnb29kIGV2YWx1YXRpb24gZm9yIHRoZSBkZWxheSBpZiB3 ZSBjaG9vc2UgYSBzaG9ydCBtYXJraW5nIGludGVydmFsLCBzbyB3ZSBoYXZlIGxlc3MgZGVsYXkg 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.32 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.32 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8-G-EtublhF8 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it (teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.211]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75FAD1A8F43 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from TELCAH005BA020.telecomitalia.local (10.188.101.222) by teledg002ba020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.101.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.266.1; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:39:22 +0100 Received: from TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.1.141]) by telcah005ba020.telecomitalia.local ([10.188.101.222]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:39:22 +0100 From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: Esteban Carisimo , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: R: [ippm] draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00 Thread-Index: AQHRWeNZhwEkxw798UWmkHnlSH28Wp8RF//g Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:39:21 +0000 Message-ID: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F30E1A@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> References: <56A772F8.7030606@cnet.fi.uba.ar> <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F2AEA6@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> <56AA383E.2020905@cnet.fi.uba.ar> In-Reply-To: <56AA383E.2020905@cnet.fi.uba.ar> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.14.252.44] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F30E1ATELMBA001BA020t_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: 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ALFRED C (AL)" To: Fioccola Giuseppe , Esteban Carisimo , "ippm@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 13:04:25 -0500 Thread-Topic: [ippm] R: R: draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00 Thread-Index: AQHRWeNZhwEkxw798UWmkHnlSH28Wp8RF//ggAAftiA= Message-ID: <4AF73AA205019A4C8A1DDD32C034631D2E26DF21A5@NJFPSRVEXG0.research.att.com> References: <56A772F8.7030606@cnet.fi.uba.ar> <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F2AEA6@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> <56AA383E.2020905@cnet.fi.uba.ar> <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F30E1A@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> In-Reply-To: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F30E1A@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4AF73AA205019A4C8A1DDD32C034631D2E26DF21A5NJFPSRVEXG0re_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] R: R: draft-fioccola-ippm-rfc6812-alt-mark-ext-00 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org 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(amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b5yDSxZbIdMk for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:54:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnet.fi.uba.ar (cnet.fi.uba.ar [157.92.58.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CCAD1AD0C9 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:54:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 59A61140077; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:44:02 -0300 (ART) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD0514006C; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:44:02 -0300 (ART) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:44:02 -0300 (ART) From: "J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin" X-X-Sender: ihameli@cnet To: "ippm@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F30DC5@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> Message-ID: References: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F30DC5@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> User-Agent: Alpine 2.10 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323329-983142002-1454013842=:5581" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] R: FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 20:54:47 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --8323329-983142002-1454013842=:5581 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hi Fioccola, All You are right about the mean and its simplicity. Nevertheless, here it is a reference to compute median without memory: Jain, Raj, and Imrich Chlamtac. "The P 2 algorithm for dynamic calculation of quantiles and histograms without storing observations." Communications of the ACM 28.10 (1985): 1076-1085. Briefly, this article propose to compute min, p/2, p, (1+p)/2, max; where for p=0.5 is standard quartile computation. For each new value it makes a simple calculation and estimates the p value using just these 5 previous values. Thank you for pointing out the draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02. Best regards, J.Ignacio On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Fioccola Giuseppe wrote: > "i'm not sure if the whole IPPM WG list received my email so i'm sending a copy" > > Hi J.Ignacio, All > many thanks for your comments. > I agree with you: the median value is a better estimator than the average value, but I take the opportunity to clarify why we choose the average delay. > Your understanding is right, the average delay is a smart way to calculate the delay. > It is simple to calculate because the network devices update the average timestamp for each received marking packet and don't need to collect any timestamp, so it greatly reduces the number of timestamps that have to be collected by the management system. On the other hand, it only gives one measure for the duration of the block and it doesn't give the minimum, maximum and median delay values. This limitation could be overcome by reducing the duration of the block (f.i. from 5 minutes to a few seconds) by means of an highly optimized implementation of the method. > But if we want to know more about the statistic distribution of delay values, the other approach can be considered: you can periodically mark packets in the IP flow, the timestamps have to be collected by the management system, that can calculate the minimum, the maximum and the median delay values. > What do you think? > > I suggest you to read also draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02, that is the companion document of draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05, where the different alternatives for the delay calculation are explained. > > Best Regards, > > Giuseppe > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin > Inviato: mercoledì 27 gennaio 2016 14:04 > A: ippm@ietf.org > Oggetto: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > > Hi Math, > > also inline answers > > On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: > >> Hi J.Ignacio, >> >> Thanks for your review and the comments! >> >> Please see my response inline... >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J. Ignacio >>> Alvarez-Hamelin >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 5:37 AM >>> To: Mach Chen >>> Cc: ippm@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for >>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>> >>> Hi IPPMers, >>> >>> >>> I have just read this draft version, and below are my comments. >> >> Thanks! >> >>> >>> >>> Page 4: >>> >>> "An additional method consists in taking into account the average arrival >>> time of the packets within a single block (i.e. the same block of >>> markers used for packet loss measurement)." and the following >>> sentences... >>> >>> Since packet delay is highly variable (e.g., self-similar traffic at >>> Internet edges), I suggest to use the median instead of average; this >>> *estimator* will be less biased by rare events. >> >> Good suggestion, but sometime people may just want average, maybe both can be mentioned here. How do you think? > > > Yes, I agree, we can mention both (I know that average seems simpler, but I was thinking on that the average is a biased estimator while the median is not). > > >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 5: >>> >>> "Type of Service (TOS)" >>> >>> Should be: "Type of Service (ToS)" >> >> OK. >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 8: >>> >>> "This >>> requires that the upstream and downstream MAs having a certain time >>> synchronization capability (e.g., supporting the Network Time >>> Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol >>> (PTP) [IEEE1588].) The PN is calculated as the modulo of the local >>> time (when the counts or timestamps are read) and the interval of the >>> marking time period." >>> >>> It could be interesting to include a brief comment about precision of >>> both methods (because the errors of the one-way measurements depend >>> on timestamp precision). >> >> I do not have the figures at hand, we'd appreciate if you or someone >> else can provide the figures, then we may add this information to >> document as reference. >> >>> Even though NTP and PTP synchronization methods are widely accepted, >>> this document may consider forthcoming novel methods. >> >> IMHO, NTP and PTP are just two examples, this document does not exclude any other methods. >> >> Do you have a specific method in mind? Or just want to give an rough description here. How about this? To add an "etc" at the end. >> >> (e.g., supporting the Network Time >> Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol >> (PTP) [IEEE1588], etc.) > > > Yes, I think this should be good. Perhaps we can also add a comment to get an idea about their precision like: > Using NTP one can get precision aground milliseconds while PTP can > achieve microseconds (and nanoseconds while it is used in a LAN). > > > > >> >> Thanks, >> Mach >> > > Thanks to you > >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> J.Ignacio >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________ >>> >>> CONICET and Facultad de Ingeniería, Universidad de Buenos Aires Av. >>> Paseo Colón 850 - C1063ACV - Buenos Aires - Argentina >>> +54 (11) 4343-0891 / 4343-2775 ext 299 >>> e-mail: ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar >>> web: http://cnet.fi.uba.ar/ignacio.alvarez-hamelin/ >>> _______________________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: >>> >>>> Hi IPPMers, >>>> >>>> This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some >>>> comments >>> offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who could >>> spend some time to review the draft and send the comments. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Mach >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >>>> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM >>>> To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe Fioccola >>>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>>> >>>> >>>> A new version of I-D, >>>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>>> has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to >>>> the IETF >>> repository. >>>> >>>> Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework >>>> Revision: 05 >>>> Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework >>>> Document date: 2016-01-24 >>>> Group: Individual Submission >>>> Pages: 16 >>>> URL: >>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-i >>> pfpm-fra >>> mework-05.txt >>>> Status: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm >>> -framew >>> ork/ >>>> Htmlized: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-fram >>> ework-0 >>> 5 >>>> Diff: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfp >>> m-frame >>> work-05 >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performance >>>> measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into >>>> different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. >>>> No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is >>>> measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional >>>> traffic. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>> submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>> >>>> The IETF Secretariat >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ippm mailing list >>>> ippm@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >>>> >> > > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie. > > This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --8323329-983142002-1454013842=:5581-- From nobody Fri Jan 29 05:45:18 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50BE71ACD89 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 05:45:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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Received: from teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A0C01A0381 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 06:22:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from TELCAH001BA020.telecomitalia.local (10.188.101.214) by teledg001ba020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.101.210) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.266.1; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 15:22:32 +0100 Received: from TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.1.141]) by TELCAH001BA020.telecomitalia.local ([10.188.101.214]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 15:22:29 +0100 From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] R: FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHRWg4z536lQ1cYeEK82UNfygEyCZ8ShhMQ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:22:29 +0000 Message-ID: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F325EA@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> References: <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F30DC5@TELMBA001BA020.telecomitalia.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.188.101.186] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] R: R: FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:22:44 -0000 Hi J. Ignacio, All Thanks for the reference. This is very useful for the processing of the data by the MCP. But I think = it is out of scope here.=20 The mean delay is one of the several alternatives we propose for the delay = calculation. And it is based on the hypothesis that each MA does not know the timestamps= of the other MAs, so you cannot apply the algorithm locally without knowin= g the delay of a segment.=20 The mean is convenient because it is a linear operator so we can calculate = the mean delay from the average timestamps. But we cannot do the same with = the median, because it is not a linear operator so we cannot deduce the med= ian delay from the median timestamps. Sometimes a MA could not be able to take and transmit all the packet timest= amps of real traffic to the MCP, but even if a MA could do that, it may be = useless because of out of order issue. On the other hand, the mean delay calculated for all the packets of a batch= is resilient to out of order and it also reduces the computational load an= d the data that a MA have to transmit to the MCP. Another option is called double marking methodology. A second marking selec= ts the packets for measuring delay by creating a new set of marked packets = within the first marking batches. These second marking packets are chosen a= t the right "time distance" to avoid out of order, and are fully identified= so that a MA can store the timestamps of these packets. These timestamps c= an be compared on the MCP for the processing and for the calculation of max= imum, minimum, median, mean, etc. but just for a few packets within the bat= ches (see draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02, in draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm= -framework-05 a similar technique is presented with only one measured packe= t per batch). In brief, because we cannot know the delay for each packet of a batch, may = be useful to know the mean delay of the whole batch together with the delay= distribution of only a few packets within the batch. I hope this helps. Regards, Giuseppe -----Messaggio originale----- Da: J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin [mailto:ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar]=20 Inviato: gioved=EC 28 gennaio 2016 21:44 A: ippm@ietf.org Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe Oggetto: Re: [ippm] R: FW: New Version Notification for draft-chen-ippm-col= oring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt Hi Fioccola, All You are right about the mean and its simplicity. Nevertheless, here it is a= reference to compute median without memory: Jain, Raj, and Imrich Chlamtac. "The P 2 algorithm for dynamic calculation of quantiles and histograms without storing observations." Communications of the ACM 28.10 (1985): 1076-1085. Briefly, this article propose to compute min, p/2, p, (1+p)/2, max; where f= or p=3D0.5 is standard quartile computation. For each new value it makes a = simple calculation and estimates the p value using just these 5 previous va= lues. Thank you for pointing out the draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02. Best regards, J.Ignacio On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Fioccola Giuseppe wrote: > "i'm not sure if the whole IPPM WG list received my email so i'm sending = a copy" > > Hi J.Ignacio, All > many thanks for your comments. > I agree with you: the median value is a better estimator than the average= value, but I take the opportunity to clarify why we choose the average del= ay. > Your understanding is right, the average delay is a smart way to calculat= e the delay. > It is simple to calculate because the network devices update the average = timestamp for each received marking packet and don't need to collect any ti= mestamp, so it greatly reduces the number of timestamps that have to be col= lected by the management system. On the other hand, it only gives one meas= ure for the duration of the block and it doesn't give the minimum, maximum = and median delay values. This limitation could be overcome by reducing the = duration of the block (f.i. from 5 minutes to a few seconds) by means of an= highly optimized implementation of the method. > But if we want to know more about the statistic distribution of delay val= ues, the other approach can be considered: you can periodically mark packet= s in the IP flow, the timestamps have to be collected by the management sys= tem, that can calculate the minimum, the maximum and the median delay value= s. > What do you think? > > I suggest you to read also draft-tempia-ippm-p3m-02, that is the companio= n document of draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05, where the = different alternatives for the delay calculation are explained. > > Best Regards, > > Giuseppe > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di J. Ignacio=20 > Alvarez-Hamelin > Inviato: mercoled=EC 27 gennaio 2016 14:04 > A: ippm@ietf.org > Oggetto: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for=20 > draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt > > Hi Math, > > also inline answers > > On Wed, 27 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: > >> Hi J.Ignacio, >> >> Thanks for your review and the comments! >> >> Please see my response inline... >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J. Ignacio=20 >>> Alvarez-Hamelin >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 5:37 AM >>> To: Mach Chen >>> Cc: ippm@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for=20 >>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>> >>> Hi IPPMers, >>> >>> >>> I have just read this draft version, and below are my comments. >> >> Thanks! >> >>> >>> >>> Page 4: >>> >>> "An additional method consists in taking into account the average ar= rival >>> time of the packets within a single block (i.e. the same block of >>> markers used for packet loss measurement)." and the following=20 >>> sentences... >>> >>> Since packet delay is highly variable (e.g., self-similar traffic at=20 >>> Internet edges), I suggest to use the median instead of average;=20 >>> this >>> *estimator* will be less biased by rare events. >> >> Good suggestion, but sometime people may just want average, maybe both c= an be mentioned here. How do you think? > > > Yes, I agree, we can mention both (I know that average seems simpler, but= I was thinking on that the average is a biased estimator while the median = is not). > > >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 5: >>> >>> "Type of Service (TOS)" >>> >>> Should be: "Type of Service (ToS)" >> >> OK. >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 8: >>> >>> "This >>> requires that the upstream and downstream MAs having a certain time >>> synchronization capability (e.g., supporting the Network Time >>> Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol >>> (PTP) [IEEE1588].) The PN is calculated as the modulo of the local >>> time (when the counts or timestamps are read) and the interval of t= he >>> marking time period." >>> >>> It could be interesting to include a brief comment about precision=20 >>> of both methods (because the errors of the one-way measurements=20 >>> depend on timestamp precision). >> >> I do not have the figures at hand, we'd appreciate if you or someone=20 >> else can provide the figures, then we may add this information to=20 >> document as reference. >> >>> Even though NTP and PTP synchronization methods are widely accepted,=20 >>> this document may consider forthcoming novel methods. >> >> IMHO, NTP and PTP are just two examples, this document does not exclude = any other methods. >> >> Do you have a specific method in mind? Or just want to give an rough des= cription here. How about this? To add an "etc" at the end. >> >> (e.g., supporting the Network Time >> Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905], or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol >> (PTP) [IEEE1588], etc.) > > > Yes, I think this should be good. Perhaps we can also add a comment to ge= t an idea about their precision like: > Using NTP one can get precision aground milliseconds while PTP can > achieve microseconds (and nanoseconds while it is used in a LAN). > > > > >> >> Thanks, >> Mach >> > > Thanks to you > >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> J.Ignacio >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________ >>> >>> CONICET and Facultad de Ingenier=EDa, Universidad de Buenos Aires Av. >>> Paseo Col=F3n 850 - C1063ACV - Buenos Aires - Argentina >>> +54 (11) 4343-0891 / 4343-2775 ext 299 >>> e-mail: ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar >>> web: http://cnet.fi.uba.ar/ignacio.alvarez-hamelin/ >>> _______________________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Mach Chen wrote: >>> >>>> Hi IPPMers, >>>> >>>> This update is just to keep the document alive. We received some=20 >>>> comments >>> offline, we'd appreciate that there will be more people who could=20 >>> spend some time to review the draft and send the comments. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Mach >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >>>> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:01 AM >>>> To: Mach Chen; Greg Mirsky; Vero Zheng; Mach Chen; Giuseppe=20 >>>> Fioccola >>>> Subject: New Version Notification for=20 >>>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>>> >>>> >>>> A new version of I-D, >>>> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-05.txt >>>> has been successfully submitted by Mach(Guoyi) Chen and posted to=20 >>>> the IETF >>> repository. >>>> >>>> Name: draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework >>>> Revision: 05 >>>> Title: IP Flow Performance Measurement Framework >>>> Document date: 2016-01-24 >>>> Group: Individual Submission >>>> Pages: 16 >>>> URL: >>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based- >>> i >>> pfpm-fra >>> mework-05.txt >>>> Status: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfp >>> m >>> -framew >>> ork/ >>>> Htmlized: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-fra >>> m >>> ework-0 >>> 5 >>>> Diff: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipf >>> p >>> m-frame >>> work-05 >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> This document specifies a measurement method, the IP flow performanc= e >>>> measurement (IPFPM). With IPFPM, data packets are marked into >>>> different blocks of markers by changing one or more bits of packets. >>>> No additional delimiting packet is needed and the performance is >>>> measured in-service and in-band without the insertion of additional >>>> traffic. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of=20 >>>> submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>> >>>> The IETF Secretariat >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ippm mailing list >>>> ippm@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >>>> >> > > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle p= ersone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante da= lla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora a= bbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di d= arne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzio= ne, Grazie. > > This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privilege= d information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, p= rinting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended= recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the s= ender by return e-mail, Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > From nobody Fri Jan 29 14:35:23 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506DA1A8BB3; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:35:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nr-z061IjAGe; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A91411A8AF2; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 3B42D180094; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:33:40 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20160129223340.3B42D180094@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:33:40 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org, ippm@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [ippm] STD 81, RFC 7679 on A One-Way Delay Metric for IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 22:35:22 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. STD 81 RFC 7679 Title: A One-Way Delay Metric for IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) Author: G. Almes, S. Kalidindi, M. Zekauskas, A. Morton, Ed. Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: January 2016 Mailbox: almes@acm.org, skalidindi@ixiacom.com, matt@internet2.edu, acmorton@att.com Pages: 27 Characters: 59852 Obsoletes: RFC 2679 See Also: STD 81 I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ippm-2679-bis-05.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7679 DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7679 This memo defines a metric for one-way delay of packets across Internet paths. It builds on notions introduced and discussed in the IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) Framework document, RFC 2330; the reader is assumed to be familiar with that document. This memo makes RFC 2679 obsolete. This document is a product of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. This is now an Internet Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Fri Jan 29 14:35:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB16C1A8F37; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:35:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O7QnTGuBUq5v; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C77F01A8BC3; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 5AC08180094; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:34:09 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20160129223409.5AC08180094@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:34:09 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org, ippm@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [ippm] STD 82, RFC 7680 on A One-Way Loss Metric for IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 22:35:52 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. STD 82 RFC 7680 Title: A One-Way Loss Metric for IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) Author: G. Almes, S. Kalidindi, M. Zekauskas, A. Morton, Ed. Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: January 2016 Mailbox: almes@acm.org, skalidindi@ixiacom.com, matt@internet2.edu, acmorton@att.com Pages: 22 Characters: 47253 Obsoletes: RFC 2680 See Also: STD 82 I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ippm-2680-bis-05.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7680 DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7680 This memo defines a metric for one-way loss of packets across Internet paths. It builds on notions introduced and discussed in the IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) Framework document, RFC 2330; the reader is assumed to be familiar with that document. This memo makes RFC 2680 obsolete. This document is a product of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. This is now an Internet Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Sat Jan 30 06:43:33 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B18021B2C2A for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 06:43:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BvauH8Lfm4cn for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 06:43:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from usplmg20.ericsson.net (usplmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D22B31B2C28 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 06:43:30 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79d16d000001b1c-70-56acc91b3b9c Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usplmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F2.78.06940.B19CCA65; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 15:30:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 09:43:29 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Fioccola Giuseppe , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-ippm-time-format-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHRThtZs8SpRivgT0yW9tefMnGmcZ8Tu58Q Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 14:43:28 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112219B3980@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <20160104161157.12460.13394.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221975EC6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <23126F6FC5CA3E44916CF99D4E0B878B44F0C750@TELMBB001BA020.telecomitalia.local> In-Reply-To: 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