From nobody Fri Jun 1 09:33:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0AA312D962 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HQnfCI5HjsO8 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic306-27.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic306-27.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.189.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E6C012D95A for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:33:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1527870807; bh=tNTHjqjASO4C3eDXrQbGjqNSTIcVfGxBs5pHj5PYLTY=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=Seq1xLUktSJpniCN0jPATo8FCXEZweTEqMZKCR1/tPVami3YkVQXLuWpj7V6TQ2mQ4sXB7toA5NlQRx++OLgxvFGLYdNjCmp1qruIDYd8FB53lvjSxX4xnT0xqjYIVweOyKNODAyJxH/muqhPb//CvALRzdKTCBLNQso5b1HRUU91NxpbLKS47kdA8F5ZE8okrcetaFfwNWicDqIbw4RHE7/d172IORl/x6hFmI6pNuVtNFV4CUyx7K5IK6SW17pMoAq7tboktxJRSsn22HQjxv6KswdSr3vvaCWS4Khx7qlSayTp1kJ4PNWVLV81aCE7tGmkirHiV0WXRKAjJ89fA== X-YMail-OSG: TU9uKqEVM1kf53OjBfRdn.cMBOvRJu0mIkSHC_C0BfUdYVvQiM_fay_0Y0EE564 0pob9Ovg1xuIGZpHkfJypnEdRWjqrmBVHfO8_5ZQW9_Lx.foUd4n2LWkd6kf8ce3b4AXqux7X.78 sbQkR3i1kV8AFUHmQUEp3.3Ya6rFMTM_IlJ98Yc02XDslzHM4XbTwZsiS8OQQjNRT8LmFxkRC4qQ kEYbbzPyeNfYydE8mDkkkK.bLA3wYXCW.qcJ6qr4QoZ631Ok6.2DF.pG3yPlgduKjA49C.op7w0d U8hoR1Jgu3UvIjl3FStBcDGM3wIg8F0Cnd6EOtkE.v1UYayER5Rz2x2O7AXgaiOzBxgFhi_Y8S.a XWfxFo0oAvCv7CT08ifkiXGAZQVLdQZ86Xv_GUPmr7apea.OXZrsQMioJj2WMHEG.f8XguWXeabs ivkS7F2m0ISjzDpDtUNicKkb7rYrao4LHjjsYeKLvcguD_1_hfPtshy9YtxEOyTrwNC0sKjUtfYW qKyBTDrMhbk_jrtnlzQpaRnT3WwXMGU4J_2P8HYrY6wY_gMeD3uvtQY_O.1gGHnbrFZRSVgtp8Yw b0GFX.2yL8NBdD8n7pzbgFzbdtHX9uXzvD2N.a2mosy97DVVjgF2Iea_aWUnfsaySpm7tYkxsY.I Xjk8M65rvq1.yfTtUrrJPP.FKaoNuhgEm7A-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 16:33:27 +0000 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 16:33:27 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: IETF IPPM WG Message-ID: <1919964258.1136094.1527870807232@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <152787045670.14656.18021140572899508172.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <152787045670.14656.18021140572899508172.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1136093_354674367.1527870807229" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.11871 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/66.0.3359.181 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-fear-ippm-mpdm-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:33:31 -0000 ------=_Part_1136093_354674367.1527870807229 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IPPM, We have just posted a new draft.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We hope to have discussion on = this in Montreal. We have defined a new IPv6 Destination Option as well as an IPv6 Hop-by-Hop= header.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The HBH is to measure delays / timings on the path. We are combining the marking work done by Guiseppe and his group with our P= DM (RFC8250) work. Would appreciate comments!=C2=A0Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 =20 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: Nalini Elkins ; Giuseppe Fioccola ; Michael S. Ackermann ; "mackermann@bcbsm.com" =20 Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 9:27 AM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-fear-ippm-mpdm-00.txt =20 A new version of I-D, draft-fear-ippm-mpdm-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF repository. Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-fear-ippm-mpdm Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00 Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IPv6 Marking and Performance an= d Diagnostic Metrics (MPDM) Document date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2018-06-01 Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 19 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet= -drafts/draft-fear-ippm-mpdm-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-f= ear-ippm-mpdm/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fear-ippm-m= pdm-00 Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-f= ear-ippm-mpdm Abstract: =C2=A0 To assess performance problems,=C2=A0 this document describes option= al =C2=A0 headers embedded in each packet that provide marking, sequence =C2=A0 numbers and timing information as a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 Su= ch =C2=A0 measurements may be interpreted in real-time or after the fact. This =C2=A0 document specifies the IPv6 Marking and Performance and Diagnostic =C2=A0 Metrics (M-PDM) Hop-byHop and Destination Options extension headers. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat =20 ------=_Part_1136093_354674367.1527870807229 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
IPPM,

We have just posted a new draf= t.   We hope to have discussion on this in Montreal.

We have defined a new I= Pv6 Destination Option as well as an IPv6 Hop-by-Hop header.   Th= e HBH is to measure delays / timings on the path.

We are combining the marking = work done by Guiseppe and his group with our PDM (RFC8250) work.

Would appreciate com= ments!
&n= bsp;
Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, In= c.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360



----- Forward= ed Message -----
From: = "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To: Nalini Elkins <nalini.elkins@i= nsidethestack.com>; Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitali= a.it>; Michael S. Ackermann <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; "mackermann@bc= bsm.com" <mackermann@bcbsm.com>
Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 9:27 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-f= ear-ippm-mpdm-00.txt

=

A new version of I-D, draft-fea= r-ippm-mpdm-00.txt
has been successfully submitte= d by Nalini Elkins and posted to the
IETF reposit= ory.

Name:  =       draft-fear-ippm-mpdm
Re= vision:    00
Title:  &n= bsp;     IPv6 Marking and Performance and Diagnostic Metrics= (MPDM)
Document date:    2018-06-= 01
Group:        In= dividual Submission
Pages:    &nbs= p;   19


Abstract:
  To assess performance problems,  this document descri= bes optional
  headers embedded in each pac= ket that provide marking, sequence
  number= s and timing information as a basis for measurements.  Such
<= div dir=3D"ltr">  measurements may be interpreted in real-time or aft= er the fact. This
  document specifies the = IPv6 Marking and Performance and Diagnostic
 = ; Metrics (M-PDM) Hop-byHop and Destination Options extension headers.
=

      &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;                     =                      = ;          

<= div dir=3D"ltr">
Please note that it may take a c= ouple of minutes from the time of submission
unti= l the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
The IETF Secretariat



<= /html> ------=_Part_1136093_354674367.1527870807229-- From nobody Sat Jun 2 10:55:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EC4212D944; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:55:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=pobox.com; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=heard@pobox.com header.d=pobox.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wrN5bPdkGulJ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (pb-smtp2.pobox.com [64.147.108.71]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9915E12D942; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0107FDDE84; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 13:55:10 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=mime-version :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; s=sasl; bh=PA5 ++dQAnGjy1rPKZJ+zMZWxoaI=; b=Rw7Zz43OzUGny0vQjxSDPQHBpbb+a9k8jio QM4vreA0eolt1uih825kjyHlwlCXK9QOrrJWOPs7RpkwtOx/8u4StLHpF9Xh0maY 2z2wBSaIfxbeUHCdXluiWasFIo4Cj2HxN28h/Mq1yMt/7631IS3Q2e1rH85H2vlA OTKHQKH8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=mime-version :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; q=dns; s=sasl; b= AGVaY0n5mPiJW1bbcNt2myuDJ9T9iKxLwDZ+ykas+VEep4pfOAukpGBPQRoLhrqQ Iyyp9nlq0rgYIIJMMM6Fun3KlrCpiRjFExr+dQyfmoFU0lkwKH6pyL6xArkob9eM wXk8hORsydBCaZpcqbUvALWq58y0+X/Zig/l8KOrDEQ= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED350DDE81; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 13:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-ot0-f173.google.com (unknown [74.125.82.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7E80ADDE80; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 13:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ot0-f173.google.com with SMTP id h6-v6so13884703otj.0; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:55:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPweDVDcUKYe8YhbfMBrG+1ZpbMQdUh9EBuamclLuWx/nxlF1qxWQ BI/qoa1g0vGlQihkHO5Nh0Va2VzPP4pxOr5GFFc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLI05gDY7vV08EL/FXDtjICFfdWZ5Ou6wX3Mnr/606C38tZzpqiDl452r4YHqW+y2bTjmIKXFII5J6BpqizCyk= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:1813:: with SMTP id b19-v6mr8353268ote.128.1527962108856; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:55:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a4a:88c6:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:54:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. M. Heard" Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:54:48 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: draft-fear-ippm-mpdm@ietf.org Cc: IPPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ba9095056dac6605" X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 17317DEC-668E-11E8-9D9C-67830C78B957-06080547!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Comments on draft-fear-ippm-mpdm-00 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 17:55:18 -0000 --000000000000ba9095056dac6605 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Greetings, I briefly perused https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fear-ippm-mpdm-00, and I have a few preliminary comments. 1. The M-PDM destination option layout and contents are very similar to those of the PDM option defined in RFC 8250, and initially I didn't grasp what additional purpose it serves. The explanation does not come until Section 5 where the Marking field is finally discussed. You would be doing your readers a huge favor to put the background discussion (and reference to RFC 8231) right up front. That is still recommended even if you accept the next comment. 2. As far as I was able to determine, the only real purpose of defining the M-PDM destination option is to have a place to put the Marking field. Why not just put the Marking field into the M-PDM Hop-by-Hop option, and use the existing PDM destination option for the rest of the M-PDM destination option functions? Note that Hop-by-Hop options certainly can be (and normally will be) processed by end nodes as well as intermediate systems; they are definitely always prepared by end nodes, since intermediate nodes are not allowed to insert extension headers or to modify their lengths. 3. The M-PDM destination option type is specified as 0x0F, but that is already assigned to the PDM destination option. It does not appear to be backward compatible with the PDM option, so if it is defines, a new option type, to be assigned by the IANA, should be specified (e.g. TBD0). 4. The document refers throughout to the M-PDM HBH Extension Header. Every instance should be changed to M-PDM HBH Option, since that's what it is. In fact this was what initially prompted me to look at the document; I thought a new HBH extension header was being defined, which RFC 8200 (and RFC 2460 before it) disallows. I know this is an editorial matter but it is important not to sow confusion. 5. The M-PDM hop-by-hop option type is also specified as 0x0F, and again, a new option type, to be assigned by the IANA, should be specified (e.g. TBD1). Furthermore, since this option will change in flight, the value of the third high-order bit must be 1, not 0. Finally, since there is a single IANA IPv6 options registry that does not distinguish between destination options and hop-by-hop options (see https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-parameters/ipv6-parameters.xhtml#ipv6-parameters-2), it might be less confusing if this and the M-PDM destination option had different names, should both be defined. 6. As the draft matures, you may want to solicit review from 6man. Mike Heard --000000000000ba9095056dac6605 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings,

I briefly perused=C2=A0https://tools.ie= tf.org/html/draft-fear-ippm-mpdm-00,=C2=A0and I have a few preliminary = comments.
  1. The M-PDM destination option layout and content= s are very similar to those of the PDM option defined in RFC 8250, and init= ially I didn't grasp what additional purpose it serves. The explanation= does not come until Section 5 where the Marking field is finally discussed= . You would be doing your readers a huge favor to put the background discus= sion (and reference to RFC 8231) right up front. That is still recommended = even if you accept the next comment.
  2. As far as I was able to determine, the only real pur= pose of defining the M-PDM destination option is to have a place to put the= Marking field. Why not just put the Marking field into the M-PDM Hop-by-Ho= p option, and use the existing PDM destination option for the rest of the M= -PDM destination option functions? Note that Hop-by-Hop options certainly c= an be (and normally will be) processed by end nodes as well as intermediate= systems; they are definitely always prepared by end nodes, since intermedi= ate nodes are not allowed to insert extension headers or to modify their le= ngths.
  3. The M-PDM destination option type is specified as 0x0= F, but that is already assigned to the PDM destination option. It does not = appear to be backward compatible with the PDM option, so if it is defines, = a new option type, to be assigned by the IANA, should be specified (e.g. TB= D0).
  4. The document refers throughout to the M-PDM HBH Extension = Header. Every instance should be changed to=C2=A0M-PDM HBH Option, since th= at's what it is. In fact this was what initially prompted me to look at= the document; I thought a new HBH extension header was being defined, whic= h RFC 8200 (and RFC 2460 before it) disallows. I know this is an editorial = matter but it is important not to sow confusion.
  5. The M-PDM hop-by-h= op option type is also specified as 0x0F, and again, a new option type, to = be assigned by the IANA, should be specified (e.g. TBD1). Furthermore, sinc= e this option will change in flight,=C2=A0the value of the third high-order bit must be 1, not 0.= Finally, since there is a single IANA IPv6 options registry that does not = distinguish between destination options and hop-by-hop options (see https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-parameters/ipv6-pa= rameters.xhtml#ipv6-parameters-2), it might be less confusing if this a= nd the M-PDM destination option had different names, should both be defined= .
  6. As the draft matures, you may want to solicit review from = 6man.
Mike Heard
--000000000000ba9095056dac6605-- From nobody Sun Jun 3 05:40:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37523127076 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2018 05:40:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kHp6qmpnnG7p for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2018 05:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic307-16.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic307-16.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.190.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B0DF126DED for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2018 05:40:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1528029619; bh=CfuNhtKcqynVVo1zizwY20ie1Gzvj4ZAJyI99EOnyps=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=V6fR2gnrR4971QXkP/L7dzmcZ7y3nbKkHb+HMtIzC0ZepljhZnOI+enME0ujOiQgujuMPPR5BIBWpuTz82LZmyJd+yygCCLI0bwKZHXW1FY7y8i7Mp5Z7MsBb9+FaZ6p7zw7XhQQ0pXrvTCTMW4Td46gcytW5gTMMoYJ48TbyPJr6A9QONgzZfUa8KmsQ0AQd/y38tQAM1qgx8/BjCFSM2ERguZ2fJdJJkNo5Yp9/VTWjlL7QhvmdNuj3C55uHcITnzR+28eSqp9RIr9MKhR/HFuHwpyrBFHOMDdwJPKh1UEZ99EfOxOUkbKz7+FTZFz7v5e/vr8Gb3QyQry1aXMGQ== X-YMail-OSG: xQXwFmQVM1lNPjHxsVzKlu_M_tIRN7FS_je.Q2pePk0PbHECpLgBX1iP0ZHJUoH O_OBH7zDFyq2.tgNh.MPzyKBNqOXJ0Lir8gDHad1Bq.FX0TZ5jqg.e.DCl7_HV6.paghw.ZXGd5d mUFaL3W93Okc6bQIxln8ugSmcKLsoqvJq5H5dKOXHP3UZncAdoAUv1Rlj7fJbr60GyGz9sd4544T IXLhbv85S8FPT1xFeEAYbW9A837sqXKPJNwxZ9o0BmWC6t5WS2laVisLITP9Sdy3EzOwJ8xTbK8i Qugzw3odFODYMfF_zswR5Wl8oGfa4ogjUaXPrbcrR4f15WVccW9tk_k47.hAhtGqW36rfRJ5XsQF lRGVDIVyfXhmRVss17AQmAokgUB87H4KyoPNLIc_cgFoEh0QKG4EYK0FqB_9bhurBT44yWRw78pp uXMKAGg_KZrjPRvrsAx3rWyhr1jY3LL5GWn5UW8lzhvTJ4qizI5RadiAa0OJ8PZ.7YnYRkwFNtez xhc31rr1Z80kQCdSn_cu8U69DstYP0q2fOTTbfrZ5vL6q8F6KwTFG1Ks0d37YDXTnmsRMvdIyfnh uB.hQ4e.cXZbTY99U.uqjvcmgEPiQOdJcPFluhrRxXugNtEeQcgwWJS6uGasJ5Lryyb6ASx.VQzd 6NjkPqejKvkqEEj6JmBhohm.MWPsdIUyjNQ5LtraBNaIjnEcMInM2MmIurUfJkcu3f7Mz8gjBIsc A1gguONGJ..5A Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 3 Jun 2018 12:40:19 +0000 Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 12:40:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: "C. M. Heard" , "draft-fear-ippm-mpdm@ietf.org" Cc: IPPM , Fioccola Giuseppe , Michael Ackermann Message-ID: <253662283.1571082.1528029614420@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.11871 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/66.0.3359.181 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments on draft-fear-ippm-mpdm-00 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2018 12:40:24 -0000 Mike, Thanks so much for your comments. > I briefly perused https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fear-ippm-mpdm-00, and I have a few preliminary comments. > 1. The M-PDM destination option layout and contents are very similar to those of the PDM option defined in RFC 8250, and initially I didn't grasp what additional purpose it > serves. The explanation does not come until Section 5 where the Marking field is finally discussed.. You would be doing your readers a huge favor to put the background > discussion (and reference to RFC 8231) right up front. That is still recommended even if you accept the next comment. Good suggestion. > 2. As far as I was able to determine, the only real purpose of defining the M-PDM destination option is to have a place to put the Marking field. Why not just put the > Marking field into the M-PDM Hop-by-Hop option, and use the existing PDM destination option for the rest of the M-PDM destination option functions? Note that Hop-by-Hop >options certainly can be (and normally will be) processed by end nodes as well as intermediate systems; they are definitely always prepared by end nodes, since intermediate >nodes are not allowed to insert extension headers or to modify their lengths. The Marking field is already included in the M-PDM HBH Option. The M-PDM destination option differs from the PDM destination option in that it is a fixed timebase and fixed scale. But it is an interesting suggestion to use the M-PDM HBH by the end node as well. Let me think about this a bit & talk over with co-authors. > 3. The M-PDM destination option type is specified as 0x0F, but that is already assigned to the PDM destination option. It does not appear to be backward compatible with the >PDM option, so if it is defines, a new option type, to be assigned by the IANA, should be specified (e.g. TBD0). Thanks. > 4. The document refers throughout to the M-PDM HBH Extension Header. Every instance should be changed to M-PDM HBH Option, since that's what it is. In fact this was what > initially prompted me to look at the document; I thought a new HBH extension header was being defined, which RFC 8200 (and RFC 2460 before it) disallows. I know this is an > editorial matter but it is important not to sow confusion. Good point. Thank you. > 5. The M-PDM hop-by-hop option type is also specified as 0x0F, and again, a new option type, to be assigned by the IANA, should be specified (e.g. TBD1). Furthermore, since >this option will change in flight, the value of the third high-order bit must be 1, not 0. Finally, since there is a single IANA IPv6 options registry that does not distinguish >between destination options and hop-by-hop options (see https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-parameters/ipv6-parameters.xhtml#ipv6-parameters-2), it might be less confusing if >this and the M-PDM destination option had different names, should both be defined.. Thanks. > 6. As the draft matures, you may want to solicit review from 6man. Yes, of course. Our thinking was that we would get our thinking straight in IPPM and see what the group wanted to do and then maybe in Bangkok present at 6man. We are, in particular, interested in people's thoughts on the Middlebox identifier field in the HBH option. I think this will provide us with valuable measurements so it would be good to think carefully about what we might suggest as the identifier. Thanks again for your thoughts. Nalini From nobody Mon Jun 4 08:32:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2EF1122E13; Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:32:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nia1ChGm-XuV; Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx01.telecomitalia.it (mx01.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F015B122A3A; Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:32:07 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: d9a9790a-1a9ff700000010b3-1a-5b155b75a3d2 Received: from TELMBXB02RM001.telecomitalia.local ( [10.14.252.27]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx01.telecomitalia.it () with SMTP id E3.F4.04275.57B551B5; Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:32:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "ippm@ietf.org" CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "Qin Wu (bill.wu@huawei.com)" , "Tal Mizrahi (talmi@marvell.com)" , "Huangyihong (Rachel) (rachel.huang@huawei.com)" , "'draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHT/BVoB9aILY7eWkqMw7QE4l42BKRQM0gw Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2018 15:32:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <152812469816.27182.8570216889428582840.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <152812469816.27182.8570216889428582840.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 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definitions=main-1806120011 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 01:26:28 -0000 SGkgR3Vpc2VwcGksDQoNCkkgaGF2ZSByZWFkIHRocm91Z2ggbXVjaCBvZiB5b3VyIGRyYWZ0LA0K YW5kIEkgaGF2ZSBhIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGFib3V0IHRoZSBtZWFzdXJlbWVudCBpbnRlcnZhbA0Kb2Yg dGhlIHZhcmlvdXMgbXVsdGkqIHRvIG11bHRpKiBtZWFzdXJlbWVudHMuDQoNCkZvciBleGFtcGxl LCBjb25zaWRlciB0aGUgbXVsdGlwb2ludCBkaWFncmFtIGJlbG93Lg0KSXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHBv c3NpYmxlIHRvIHN5bmNocm9uaXplIGNsb2NrcywgYW5kIHRoZSBiZWdpbm5pbmcgb2YNCnRoZSBt ZWFzdXJlbWVudCBpbnRlcnZhbCBhdCBSMSBhbmQgUjIgYW5kIFIzIHRvIHNvbWUgZGVncmVlDQoo YnV0IG1vcmUgYWJvdXQgdGhpcyBsYXRlcikuDQpBbHNvLCB5b3VyIHBvaW50LXRvLXBvaW50IFJG 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IDZRWHNoS3lLUWgzOHQwJnM9Q1lONFlWbTZzMmlVYTJMeXlORDllUTF4Ui1CZEI4RjVYdkUyRFY2 UTU1TSZlPQ0K From nobody Tue Jun 12 07:28:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 230FF130FC7; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:28:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J5bpz0Rz_Jxc; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx01.telecomitalia.it (mx01.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AEBF130F99; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:28:33 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: d9a9790a-29fff70000003469-b1-5b1fd88f8ca6 Received: from TELMBXA02RM001.telecomitalia.local ( [10.14.252.26]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx01.telecomitalia.it () with SMTP id 15.24.13417.F88DF1B5; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:28:31 +0200 (CEST) From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" , "ippm@ietf.org" CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "'draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org'" , "Tal Mizrahi (talmi@marvell.com)" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHT/BVoB9aILY7eWkqMw7QE4l42BKRQM0gwgAusm/CAANlyUA== Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:28:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <152812469816.27182.8570216889428582840.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92B28A@njmtexg4.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: 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(GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5CGdHRx022241; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 11:39:17 -0500 Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (mail-green.research.att.com [135.207.255.15]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5CGdCco022019; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 11:39:13 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njmtcas2.research.att.com [135.207.255.47]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11670E2523; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njmtcas2.research.att.com ([fe80::d550:ec84:f872:cad9%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:38:59 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Fioccola Giuseppe , "ippm@ietf.org" CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "'draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org'" , "Tal Mizrahi (talmi@marvell.com)" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHT/BVoB9aILY7eWkqMw7QE4l42BKRQM0gwgAusm/CAANlyUIAAJYBg Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:39:10 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92B6B1@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152812469816.27182.8570216889428582840.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92B28A@njmtexg4.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.197.228.174] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-12_01:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806120185 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:39:29 -0000 SGkgR2l1c2VwcGUsDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgcmVwbHkgYW5kIGFncmVlbWVudCBvbiB0aGlz IGlzc3VlLg0KDQpJIHRoaW5rIGEgQ1ItcmVtb3ZpbmcgYXBwbGljYXRpb24gbWFkZSBhIG1lc3Mg b2YgeW91ciBmaWd1cmUsIGJlbG93LA0KZGVzcGl0ZSBvdXIgdXNlIG9mIHBsYWluIHRleHQuDQoN CkknbGwgYmUgYmV0dGVyIGFibGUgdG8gc2F5IHdoYXQgSSB0aGluayBvZiB5b3VyIHByb3Bvc2Fs IA0KZm9yIGEgbmV3IHNlY3Rpb24gYWZ0ZXIgc2VlaW5nIGFsbCB0aGUgaW5mbyB5b3Uga2luZGx5 IA0KcHJvdmlkZWQuICA6LSkNCg0KQWwNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0K PiBGcm9tOiBGaW9jY29sYSBHaXVzZXBwZSBbbWFpbHRvOmdpdXNlcHBlLmZpb2Njb2xhQHRlbGVj 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dCwgcGxlYXNlIGRlbGV0ZSB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgYW5kIGFueSBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBhbmQNCj4g YWR2aXNlIHRoZSBzZW5kZXIgYnkgcmV0dXJuIGUtbWFpbCwgVGhhbmtzLg0KPiANCj4gUmlzcGV0 dGEgbCdhbWJpZW50ZS4gTm9uIHN0YW1wYXJlIHF1ZXN0YSBtYWlsIHNlIG5vbiDDqCBuZWNlc3Nh cmlvLg0K From nobody Tue Jun 12 13:41:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A82130E8F; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 13:41:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2-2sQ_GwH9N7; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 13:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx04.telecomitalia.it (mx04.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 049F1130E94; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 13:41:20 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: d9a97918-3e9ff70000001030-41-5b202fef800e Received: from TELMBXA02RM001.telecomitalia.local ( [10.14.252.26]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx04.telecomitalia.it () with SMTP id 05.50.04144.FEF202B5; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:41:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" , "ippm@ietf.org" CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "'draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org'" , "Tal Mizrahi (talmi@marvell.com)" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHT/BVoB9aILY7eWkqMw7QE4l42BKRQM0gwgAusm/CAANlyUIAAJYBggAA4tmA= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 20:41:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <152812469816.27182.8570216889428582840.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92B28A@njmtexg4.research.att.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92B6B1@njmtexg4.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92B6B1@njmtexg4.research.att.com> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.14.252.233] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrGKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXCxfdHSve9vkK0wa0PjBZ9h2YzWuxsmMRu sXpHN5tFz4N3zBav/m1hcWD1WLLkJ5PH5IUXmT3+P5nPEsAc1cBok5iXl1+SWJKqkJJanGyr 5JJZnJyTmJmbWqQQkpqTmpyfq6SQmWKrZKykUJCTmJyam5pXYquUWFCQmpeiZMelgAFsgMoy 8xRS85LzUzLz0m2VPIP9dS0sTC11DZXsAktTi0vyFXJTi4sT09Mz8xVSE9YLZrR93stWcG4x Y0XL7eOMDYxb5jN2MXJwSAiYSBy4L9zFyMUhJDCVSWLa5GlAcU4ONgEbiYOvTrCB2CICoRKv 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SN6PR05MB4862 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-13_01:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=769 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806130045 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] REG: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 03:54:19 -0000 --_000_SN6PR05MB428672BF964C5B3115CA7D71C27E0SN6PR05MB4286namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Giuseppe, I had gone through the draft. I have the following queries. 1. The draft is not clear how to measure the packet in a multi-point s= cenario. 2. Can you explain the grouping the network end points, how do you pre= dict traffic. 3. How do you measure the packets. 4. Could you please explain me how the history is captured. 5. Could you please explain the algorithm for calculate delay variatio= n? Regards, Sudhin --_000_SN6PR05MB428672BF964C5B3115CA7D71C27E0SN6PR05MB4286namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Giuseppe,
 
I had gone through the draft. I have the follo= wing queries.
 
  1. The draft is not clear how to measure the packet in a multi-point scena= rio.
  2. Can you explain the grouping the network end points, how do yo= u predict traffic.
  3. How do you measure the packets.
  4. Could yo= u please  explain me how the history is captured.
  5. Could you pl= ease explain the algorithm for calculate delay variation?
    6.
 
 
Regards,
Sudhin
 
 
 --_000_SN6PR05MB428672BF964C5B3115CA7D71C27E0SN6PR05MB4286namp_-- From nobody Wed Jun 13 00:51:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE11D130E0E for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:51:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.4 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_SUMOF=5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wWZbweeN-Bib for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx01.telecomitalia.it (mx01.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC44A130E05 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:51:24 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: d9a9790a-29fff70000003469-ab-5b20ccfa3213 Received: from TELMBXA02RM001.telecomitalia.local ( [10.14.252.26]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx01.telecomitalia.it () with SMTP id 2B.8F.13417.AFCC02B5; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 09:51:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: Sudhin Jacob , IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 Thread-Index: AdQCyiaXKBflj5yJQJWqEDUGaKCA1AAHCTCg Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:51:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.14.252.242] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_deef43e1a306421eb84f2f2295aa0257TELMBXB02RM001telecomit_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrDKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXCxfdHSvfXGYVogw2XbCx6Hrxjtlixt5/d gcljyZKfTB7Xm66yBzBFNTDaJObl5ZcklqQqpKQWJ9squWQWJ+ckZuamFimEpOakJufnKilk ptgqGSspFOQkJqfmpuaV2ColFhSk5qUo2XEpYAAboLLMPIXUvOT8lMy8dFslz2B/XQsLU0td QyW7wNLU4pJ8hdzU4uLE9PTMfIXUhPWCGdOnPGcq2NbPWHHywDOWBsY59V2MnBwSAiYS17Z8 Z+ti5OIQEpjKJLFk+nNmkASbgI3EwVcn2EBsEQFniQ8/P7KD2MIC5hJTr65lgYhbSKxaeIcZ wjaSWPJrJyuIzSKgKnH+5UGwXl6BQInVr1YzgdhCAjESk99+BavhFIiVaHreBRZnFJCVmLB7 ESOIzSwgLnHryXwmiOMEJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8jxXCNpDYunQfC4StKHFi13lGCFtGYuGRyUA1 HEBz8iVa7vJAnCAocXLmE5YJjCKzkGyYhVA1C0kVRImexI2pU9ggbG2JZQtfM0PYuhIz/h1i QRZfwMi+ilE0t8LAUK8EEpWZJYk5mYl6mSWbGIFJ5ObKSq4djK9XOR9iFOBgVOLhnbBTIVqI NbGsuDL3EKMEB7OSCO+EqUAh3pTEyqrUovz4otKc1OJDjD7AcJzILCWanA9McHkl8YYmFpaG xhYWRoYWZqY4hJXEeQW3ykcLCaQD01p2ampBahHMOCYOTqkGRq/pXp6Tz3ophB2J+vjg0aWf fs0bnaOf7JddNOVt2f6tLIfiNXa6XD7osrJZTTw98e2nhAVRt2wtPk2fP3tWe+1xoa2CyYde dnJqZukcWfXOWGQ2w5F9L1rzN9/fxNl8Slxi1wWpjtAnJy//ddiuoio0WfFpw8vKfXzPlfZU NqzccuGk1K0iwRlKLMUZiYZazEXFiQC7gopLTwMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:51:28 -0000 --_000_deef43e1a306421eb84f2f2295aa0257TELMBXB02RM001telecomit_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sudhin, Thank you for reading the draft. My answers inline tagged as [GF] Please let me know if I have answered to your queries. I will fix them in the next revision. Regards, Giuseppe From: Sudhin Jacob [mailto:sjacob@juniper.net] Sent: mercoled=EC 13 giugno 2018 05:54 To: Fioccola Giuseppe Cc: IETF IPPM WG Subject: REG: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 Hi Giuseppe, I had gone through the draft. I have the following queries. 1. The draft is not clear how to measure the packet in a multi-point sc= enario. 2. [GF]: RFC8321 explains how to measure packet loss on point-to-point= basis. However, in same cases, packet loss can be measured on a multipoint-= to-multipoint basis and this is a property of the alternate marking method.= With network clustering, it is possible to use the network clusters partiti= on of the entire network to measure packet loss for each cluster. I will hig= hlight better this concept in the draft. 3. 4. Can you explain the grouping the network end points, how do you pred= ict traffic. 5. [GF]: This is a good point. In my opinion there are different option= s: for example you can consider all the possible paths for the traffic or yo= u can check the traffic sometimes and update the monitoring network if neede= d or you can use traceroute... But I would consider this out of scope for th= is document. Anyway I will add a paragraph in the next revision. 6. 7. How do you measure the packets. 8. [GF]: You can measure the packet loss by comparing the sum of the pa= cket counters for input nodes and output nodes of your monitoring network or= of the clusters. In this way in a very large network you don't need to conf= igure detailed filter criteria to inspect the traffic. You can check multipo= int network and only in case of problems you can go deep with a step-by-step= cluster analysis but only for the cluster where the problem happens. This i= s useful in an SDN controlled large network and enables a flexible and adapt= ive performance measurement. Agree, this will be described more in the next= revision. 9. 10. Could you please explain me how the history is captured. 11. [GF]: The history can be made also offline by an SDN orchestrator/cont= roller, and as for RFC8321 this can be considered out of scope for this docu= ment. 12. 13. Could you please explain the algorithm for calculate delay variation? 14. [GF]: The delay variation is calculated by considering RFC3393 and the= same packets selected for measuring the delay (single/double marking or has= hing) are also evaluated for delay variation. Regards, Sudhin Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle pers= one indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla= conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbia= te ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne= immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, G= razie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged i= nformation intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, print= ing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended reci= pient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender= by return e-mail, Thanks. Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario. --_000_deef43e1a306421eb84f2f2295aa0257TELMBXB02RM001telecomit_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sudhin,

Thank you for reading the draft.

My answers inline tagged as [GF]

 

Please let me know if I have answered to your queries.

I will fix them in the next revision.

 

Regards,

 

Giuseppe

 

From: Sudhin Jacob [mailto:sjacob@juniper.net]
Sent: mercoled=EC 13 giugno 2018 05:54
To: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: REG: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02

 

Hi Giuse= ppe,

 

I had go= ne through the draft. I have the following queries.

 

1.      = The draft is not clear how to measure the packet in a multi-point scenario.<= o:p>

2.      [GF]: RFC8321 explains how to measure packet loss on point-to-p= oint basis. However, in same cases, packet loss can be measured on a multipo= int-to-multipoint basis and this is a property of the alternate marking method. With network clustering, it= is possible to use the network clusters partition of the entire network to= measure packet loss for each cluster. I will highlight better this concept= in the draft.

3.      =  

4.      = Can you explain the grouping the network end points, how do you predict traf= fic.

5.      [GF]: This is a good poi= nt. In my opinion there are different options: for example you can consider= all the possible paths for the traffic or you can check the traffic sometim= es and update the monitoring network if needed or you can use traceroute… But I would consider this out of= scope for this document. Anyway I will add a paragraph in the next revision= .

6.      =  

7.      = How do you measure the packets.

8.      [GF]: You can measure th= e packet loss by comparing the sum of the packet counters for input nodes an= d output nodes of your monitoring network or of the clusters. In this way in= a very large network you don’t need to configure detailed filter criteria to inspect the traffic. You can= check multipoint network and only in case of problems you can go deep with= a step-by-step cluster analysis but only for the cluster where the problem= happens. This is useful in an SDN controlled large network and enables a flexible and adaptive performance me= asurement. Agree, this will be described more in the next revision.

9.      =  

10.   = Could you please  explain me how the history is captured.

11.   [GF]: The history can be= made also offline by an SDN orchestrator/controller, and as for RFC8321 thi= s can be considered out of scope for this document.

12.   =  

13.   = Could you please explain the algorithm for calculate delay variation?

14.   [GF]: The delay variatio= n is calculated by considering RFC3393 and the same packets selected for mea= suring the delay (single/double marking or hashing) are also evaluated for d= elay variation. 

 

Regards,=

Sudhin

 

 

Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle= persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante d= alla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora a= bbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di da= rne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privil= eged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying,= printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intende= d recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the s= ender by return e-mail, Thanks.

Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non è necessa= rio.
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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Giuseppe, Kindly find the answer inline. Regards, Sudhin From: Fioccola Giuseppe Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 1:21 PM To: Sudhin Jacob ; IETF IPPM WG Subject: RE: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 Hi Sudhin, Thank you for reading the draft. My answers inline tagged as [GF] Please let me know if I have answered to your queries. I will fix them in the next revision. Regards, Giuseppe From: Sudhin Jacob [mailto:sjacob@juniper.net] Sent: mercoled=EC 13 giugno 2018 05:54 To: Fioccola Giuseppe > Cc: IETF IPPM WG > Subject: REG: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 Hi Giuseppe, I had gone through the draft. I have the following queries. 1. The draft is not clear how to measure the packet in a multi-point = scenario. 2. [GF]: RFC8321 explains how to measure packet loss on point-to-poin= t basis. However, in same cases, packet loss can be measured on a multipoin= t-to-multipoint basis and this is a property of the alternate marking metho= d. With network clustering, it is possible to use the network clusters part= ition of the entire network to measure packet loss for each cluster. I will= highlight better this concept in the draft. Sudhin>>>>>> Kindly explain, multipoint there are different flows, how abou= t BUM packet, there will be ingress replication sometimes there will be poi= nt to multipoint LSP. How to record it. 3. 4. Can you explain the grouping the network end points, how do you pr= edict traffic. 5. [GF]: This is a good point. In my opinion there are different opti= ons: for example you can consider all the possible paths for the traffic or= you can check the traffic sometimes and update the monitoring network if n= eeded or you can use traceroute... But I would consider this out of scope f= or this document. Anyway I will add a paragraph in the next revision. Sudhin>>>>>> Good. 6. 7. How do you measure the packets. 8. [GF]: You can measure the packet loss by comparing the sum of the = packet counters for input nodes and output nodes of your monitoring network= or of the clusters. In this way in a very large network you don't need to = configure detailed filter criteria to inspect the traffic. You can check mu= ltipoint network and only in case of problems you can go deep with a step-b= y-step cluster analysis but only for the cluster where the problem happens.= This is useful in an SDN controlled large network and enables a flexible a= nd adaptive performance measurement. Agree, this will be described more in = the next revision. Sudhin>>>>>>>> the counter details are not mentioned, how to find out CIR, = EIR. 9. 10. Could you please explain me how the history is captured. 11. [GF]: The history can be made also offline by an SDN orchestrator/con= troller, and as for RFC8321 this can be considered out of scope for this do= cument. Sudhin>>> ok 12. Could you please explain the algorithm for calculate delay variation? 13. [GF]: The delay variation is calculated by considering RFC3393 and th= e same packets selected for measuring the delay (single/double marking or h= ashing) are also evaluated for delay variation. Regards, Sudhin Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario. --_000_SN6PR05MB42865E00ADD37916033FA451C27C0SN6PR05MB4286namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Giuseppe,

 

Kindly find the answer= inline.

 

Regards,

Sudhin

 

From: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola= @telecomitalia.it>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 1:21 PM
To: Sudhin Jacob <sjacob@juniper.net>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@i= etf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02

 

Hi Sudhin,

Thank you for reading the draft= .

My answers inline tagged as [GF= ]

 

Please let me know if I have an= swered to your queries.

I will fix them in the next rev= ision.

 

Regards,

 

Giuseppe

 

From: Sudhin Jacob [mailto:sjacob@juniper.net]
Sent: mercoled=EC 13 giugno 2018 05:54
To: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: REG: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02<= /p>

 

Hi Gius= eppe,

 <= /span>

I had g= one through the draft. I have the following queries.

 <= /span>

1.       The draft is not clear how to measure the packet in a multi-point scenario= .

2.       [GF]: RFC8321 explains = how to measure packet loss on point-to-point basis. However, in same cases,= packet loss can be measured on a multipoint-to-multipoint basis and this i= s a property of the alternate marking method. With network clustering, it is possible to use the network cluster= s partition of the entire network to measure packet loss for each cluster. = I will highlight better this concept in the draft.

 

Sudhin>>>>= ;>> Kindly explain, multipoint there are different flows, how about B= UM packet, there will be ingress replication sometimes there will be point to multipoint LSP. How to record it.

3.        

4.       Can you explain the grouping the network end points, how do you predict tr= affic.

5.       [GF]: This is a good point. In my opinion th= ere are different options: for example you can consider all the possible pa= ths for the traffic or you can check the traffic sometimes and update the m= onitoring network if needed or you can use traceroute… But I would consider this out of scope for this = document. Anyway I will add a paragraph in the next revision.

 

Sudhin>>>>= ;>> Good.

6.        

7.       How do you measure the packets.

8.       [GF]: You can measure the packet loss by com= paring the sum of the packet counters for input nodes and output nodes of y= our monitoring network or of the clusters. In this way in a very large netw= ork you don’t need to configure detailed filter criteria to inspect the traffic. You can check multipoint = network and only in case of problems you can go deep with a step-by-step cl= uster analysis but only for the cluster where the problem happens. This is = useful in an SDN controlled large network and enables a flexible and adaptive performance measurement. Agree= , this will be described more in the next revision.

Sudhin>>>>= ;>>>> the counter details are not mentioned, how to find out CI= R, EIR.

9.        

10.   Could you please  explain me how the history is captured.<= /span>

11.   [GF]: The history can be made also offline b= y an SDN orchestrator/controller, and as for RFC8321 this can be considered= out of scope for this document.

Sudhin>>> ok

12.   Could you please explain the algorithm for calculate delay variation?=

13.   [GF]: The delay variation is calculated by c= onsidering RFC3393 and the same packets selected for measuring the delay (s= ingle/double marking or hashing) are also evaluated for delay variation. 

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

 <= /span>

Regards= ,

Sudhin<= /span>

 

 

Questo mess= aggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone indica= te. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vieta= te. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente= pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla = sua distruzione, Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileg= ed information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, = printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intende= d recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks= .

Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario.=

 

--_000_SN6PR05MB42865E00ADD37916033FA451C27C0SN6PR05MB4286namp_-- From nobody Fri Jun 15 02:51:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D56312F1A2 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 02:51:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.4 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_SUMOF=5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lZIw9U_K8x3C for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 02:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx01.telecomitalia.it (mx01.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 356E6126DBF for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 02:51:08 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: d9a9790a-29fff70000003469-87-5b238c0acd06 Received: from TELMBXB02RM001.telecomitalia.local ( [10.14.252.27]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx01.telecomitalia.it () with SMTP id 6F.0B.13417.A0C832B5; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 11:51:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: Sudhin Jacob , IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 Thread-Index: AdQCyiaXKBflj5yJQJWqEDUGaKCA1AAHCTCgAFoPXoAACmRCIA== Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 09:51:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.14.252.236] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a1e7fe4dcd4142f6950a87cfdba4f926TELMBXB02RM001telecomit_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXCxfdHWperRzna4NdMKYueB++YLVbs7Wd3 YPJYsuQnk8f1pqvsAUxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBkr5nczF1y4y1jxp/UDUwPjuSOMXYwcHBIC JhKT1sV3MXJxCAlMZZJ4uO8wWxcjJwebgI3EwVcnwGwRAWeJDz8/soPYwgLmElOvrmWBiFtI rFp4hxnCdpJYPfcYWD2LgKrEomnvwGxegUCJn4cnMEEs+M4ocWXDdVaQBKdArMShRS/AhjIK yEpM2L2IEcRmFhCXuPVkPhOILSEgILFkz3lmCFtU4uXjf6wQtoHE1qX7WCBsRYntX49DxWUk Fh6ZzAoxJ1/ib+dUVogjBCVOznzCMoFRZBaSFbOQlM1CUgYR15O4MXUKG4StLbFs4WtmCFtX Ysa/QyzI4gsY2VcxiuZWGBjqlaTmpCbn52aWJOZkJupllmxiBMbWzZWVXDsYX69yPsQowMGo xMOr2KEcLcSaWFZcmXuIUYKDWUmEt7dEKVqINyWxsiq1KD++qDQntfgQozQHi5I4r+BW+Wgh gfTEktTs1NSC1CKYLBMHp1QD4+V5YUpnyhJFDpTVz09bqG/e/GPaaf0zdReO3nlySL3e/dP0 lTX7XmWzWbpd0Oy0UNxpn/TrWky95II3qd/vqBzi1Q8T/jT910lDiWAHg7MFe36v6AuwXjvz 7n1h67qFrIr/bigZLNnY7fA8xC76zNVgyzxJL/E/v6el7bmT9frExDzZiyd3WCqxFGckGmox FxUnAgAezMlJqQIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 09:51:12 -0000 --_000_a1e7fe4dcd4142f6950a87cfdba4f926TELMBXB02RM001telecomit_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sudhin, Thank you for the comments. My answers inline tagged as [GF] Best Regards, Giuseppe From: Sudhin Jacob [mailto:sjacob@juniper.net] Sent: venerd=EC 15 giugno 2018 06:14 To: Fioccola Giuseppe Cc: IETF IPPM WG Subject: RE: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 Hi Giuseppe, Kindly find the answer inline. Regards, Sudhin From: Fioccola Giuseppe > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 1:21 PM To: Sudhin Jacob >; IETF IPPM= WG > Subject: RE: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 Hi Sudhin, Thank you for reading the draft. My answers inline tagged as [GF] Please let me know if I have answered to your queries. I will fix them in the next revision. Regards, Giuseppe From: Sudhin Jacob [mailto:sjacob@juniper.net] Sent: mercoled=EC 13 giugno 2018 05:54 To: Fioccola Giuseppe > Cc: IETF IPPM WG > Subject: REG: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02 Hi Giuseppe, I had gone through the draft. I have the following queries. 1. The draft is not clear how to measure the packet in a multi-point s= cenario. 2. [GF]: RFC8321 explains how to measure packet loss on point-to-point= basis. However, in same cases, packet loss can be measured on a multipoint= -to-multipoint basis and this is a property of the alternate marking method= . With network clustering, it is possible to use the network clusters parti= tion of the entire network to measure packet loss for each cluster. I will = highlight better this concept in the draft. Sudhin>>>>>> Kindly explain, multipoint there are different flows, how abou= t BUM packet, there will be ingress replication sometimes there will be poi= nt to multipoint LSP. How to record it. [GF]: BUM is not considered here so replication is not possible. Multipoint= flows refer only to unicast traffic. Depending on the set of selection rul= es used to match the unicast packets, the resulting pattern cannot be a poi= nt-to-point connection, but, in general, a multipoint-to-multipoint connect= ion. 3. 4. Can you explain the grouping the network end points, how do you pre= dict traffic. 5. [GF]: This is a good point. In my opinion there are different optio= ns: for example you can consider all the possible paths for the traffic or = you can check the traffic sometimes and update the monitoring network if ne= eded or you can use traceroute... But I would consider this out of scope fo= r this document. Anyway I will add a paragraph in the next revision. Sudhin>>>>>> Good. 6. 7. How do you measure the packets. 8. [GF]: You can measure the packet loss by comparing the sum of the p= acket counters for input nodes and output nodes of your monitoring network = or of the clusters. In this way in a very large network you don't need to c= onfigure detailed filter criteria to inspect the traffic. You can check mul= tipoint network and only in case of problems you can go deep with a step-by= -step cluster analysis but only for the cluster where the problem happens. = This is useful in an SDN controlled large network and enables a flexible an= d adaptive performance measurement. Agree, this will be described more in t= he next revision. Sudhin>>>>>>>> the counter details are not mentioned, how to find out CIR, = EIR. [GF]: I will add more details on that. The calculation of CIR and EIR is po= ssible because alternate marking method allows both tracing and packet rate= calculation. But, you can enable per flow or multipoint alternate marking = depending on the level of information you need to achieve (per flow or mult= ipoint basis). 9. 10. Could you please explain me how the history is captured. 11. [GF]: The history can be made also offline by an SDN orchestrator/con= troller, and as for RFC8321 this can be considered out of scope for this do= cument. Sudhin>>> ok 12. Could you please explain the algorithm for calculate delay variation? 13. [GF]: The delay variation is calculated by considering RFC3393 and th= e same packets selected for measuring the delay (single/double marking or h= ashing) are also evaluated for delay variation. Regards, Sudhin Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario. --_000_a1e7fe4dcd4142f6950a87cfdba4f926TELMBXB02RM001telecomit_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sudhin,

Thank you for the comments.

My answers inline tagged as [GF]

 

Best Regards,

 

Giuseppe

 

From: Sudhin Jacob [mailto:sjacob@juniper.net]
Sent: venerd=EC 15 giugno 2018 06:14
To: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02

 

Hi Gius= eppe,

 <= /span>

Kindly = find the answer inline.

 <= /span>

Regards= ,

Sudhin<= /span>

 <= /span>

From: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it= >
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 1:21 PM
To: Sudhin Jacob <sjacob@juniper.net>; = IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02

 

Hi Sudhin,

Thank you for reading the draft= .

My answers inline tagged as [GF= ]

 

Please let me know if I have an= swered to your queries.

I will fix them in the next rev= ision.

 

Regards,

 

Giuseppe

 

From: Sudhin Jacob [mailto:sjacob@juniper.net]
Sent: mercoled=EC 13 giugno 2018 05:54
To: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it<= /span>>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: REG: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-02<= /span>

 

Hi Gius= eppe,

 <= /span>

I had g= one through the draft. I have the following queries.

 <= /span>

1= .   &= nbsp;  The draft is not clear how to measure the packet in a multi-point scenario= .

2= .   &= nbsp;  [GF]: RFC8321 explains = how to measure packet loss on point-to-point basis. However, in same cases,= packet loss can be measured on a multipoint-to-multipoint basis and this i= s a property of the alternate marking method. With network clustering, it is possible to use the network cluster= s partition of the entire network to measure packet loss for each cluster. = I will highlight better this concept in the draft.

Sudhin>>>>= ;>> Kindly explain, multipoint there are different flows, how about B= UM packet, there will be ingress replication sometimes there will be point to multipoint LSP. How to record it.

[GF]: BUM is not considered here so replication is not possible. Mult= ipoint flows refer only to unicast traffic. Depending = on the set of selection rules used to match the unicast packets, the result= ing pattern cannot be a point-to-point connection, but, in general, a multi= point-to-multipoint connection. 

3= .   &= nbsp;   

4= .   &= nbsp;  Can you explain the grouping the network end points, how do you predict tr= affic.

5= .   &= nbsp;  [GF]: This is a good po= int. In my opinion there are different options: for example you can conside= r all the possible paths for the traffic or you can check the traffic somet= imes and update the monitoring network if needed or you can use traceroute… But I would consider this out o= f scope for this document. Anyway I will add a paragraph in the next revisi= on.

Sudhin>>>>= ;>> Good.

6= .   &= nbsp;   

7= .   &= nbsp;  How do you measure the packets.

8= .   &= nbsp;  [GF]: You can measure t= he packet loss by comparing the sum of the packet counters for input nodes = and output nodes of your monitoring network or of the clusters. In this way= in a very large network you don’t need to configure detailed filter criteria to inspect the traffic. You can= check multipoint network and only in case of problems you can go deep with= a step-by-step cluster analysis but only for the cluster where the problem= happens. This is useful in an SDN controlled large network and enables a flexible and adaptive performance m= easurement. Agree, this will be described more in the next revision.

Sudhin>>>>= ;>>>> the counter details are not mentioned, how to find out CI= R, EIR.

[GF]: I = will add more details on that. The calculation of CIR and EIR is possible b= ecause alternate marking method allows both tracing and packet rate calculation. But, you can enable per flow or multi= point alternate marking depending on the level of information you need to a= chieve (per flow or multipoint basis).

9= .   &= nbsp;   

1= 0.   Could you please  explain me how the history is captured.

1= 1.   [GF]: The history can b= e made also offline by an SDN orchestrator/controller, and as for RFC8321 t= his can be considered out of scope for this document.

Sudhin>>> ok

1= 2.   Could you please explain the algorithm for calculate delay variation?

1= 3.   [GF]: The delay variati= on is calculated by considering RFC3393 and the same packets selected for m= easuring the delay (single/double marking or hashing) are also evaluated fo= r delay variation. = ;

 <= /span>

 <= /span>

 <= /span>

Regards= ,

Sudhin<= /span>

 

 

Questo mess= aggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone indica= te. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vieta= te. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente= pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla = sua distruzione, Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments is con= fidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee= (s) only. Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient= , please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by r= eturn e-mail, Thanks.

Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non = =E8 necessario.

 

--_000_a1e7fe4dcd4142f6950a87cfdba4f926TELMBXB02RM001telecomit_-- From nobody Mon Jun 18 08:59:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E7B130DF5; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 08:59:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152933756486.2759.4610152842762937774.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 08:59:24 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:59:26 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- High level question: How does this YANG model relate to the lmap YANG model (rfc8194)? From nobody Mon Jun 18 09:18:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62430130E04; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 09:18:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152933869439.3647.15290297683322606646.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 09:18:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:18:24 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps I am confused and/or misreading things, but the descriptions of the control-client and session-reflector include discussion of 'sid' session identifiers as if they were always used, but the mode bitmap includes a separate bit for negotiation of 'individual-session-control' for session identifier usage. Is there some conflict between this mandatory/negotiable distinction, or are they actually talking about different things? Comments below in document order, but please pay special note to the (potential) need for global uniqueness of key-ids, the PBKDF2 iteration count, and the list of sensitive nodes to call out in the security considerations. Section 3.1 o Authentication and encryption attributes such as KeyID, Token and the Client Initialization Vector (Client-IV); see also the last paragraph of Section 6 in OWAMP [RFC4656] and Randomness Requirements for Security [RFC4086]. I'm confused about what the RFC4656 reference is intended to call out -- the reliance on AES to be resistant to chosen plaintext, or the randomly generated challenge from the server, or the existential forgeries? o Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the test starting time, which performance metric is to be used Registry for Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry], or whether the test should be repeated. Is there something missing before or around "Registry for Performance Metrics"? The current text is hard to read. Section 3.4 Each Session-Reflector is associated with zero or more TWAMP-Test sessions. For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2) can be configured. nit: I think this would be easier to read if "which determines...received" was offset by commas or parentheses. Read-only access to other data model parameters, such as the Sender IP address is foreseen. Each test session can be uniquely identified by the 4-tuple mentioned in Section 3.2. Nit: comma after "Sender IP address". Section 4.1 [...] Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent integers increase by one. I thought I remembered some discussion about this text being unclear and removing "and subsequent integers increase by one" being proposed. But I don't see that discussion in an obvious place, so maybe it was on a different document. Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit position combinations when necessary, such as when referring to the extended [...] Maybe "may set multiple bits independently" would be more clear? But it seems that some bit combinations don't make any sense, like unauthenticated+authenticated -- is there need for more expository text here? [...] The secret-key is the shared secret, a sequence of octets of arbitrary length whose interpretation is unspecified. The key-id and secret-key encoding SHOULD follow Section 9.4 of YANG [RFC7950]. [...] Section 9.4 of YANG is for (printable) strings, but the secret-key is binary -- should this get a Section 9.8 reference as well? I'm also not sure that leaving it as "arbitrary length" is great -- if we're using it to derive 16-byte AES keys and 32-byte HMAC-SHA1 keys, we could at least say "SHOULD contain at least 128 bits of entropy". Section 4.2 [...] The Server, being prepared to conduct sessions with more than one Control-Client, uses KeyIDs to choose the appropriate secret-key; a Control-Client would typically have different secret keys for different Servers. key-id tells the Server which shared-secret the Control-Client wishes to use for authentication or encryption. Does this imply a global uniqueness requirement for key-ids? If so, that should be called out more clearly. Section 4.3 | name | | ctrl-connection-name {ro} | | fill-mode | | number-of-packets | | state {ro} | | sent-packets {ro} | | rcv-packets {ro} | | last-sent-seq {ro} | | last-rcv-seq {ro} | +---------------------------+ nit: should the "{ro}" on "state" be right-aligned with the others? Is there any privacy concern about exposing the parent-connection 4-tuple? Section 5.2 In the 'count' leaf, a default value of 10 (corresponding to an iteration count of 2^10 == 1024 for PBKDF2) is described. This seems quite low for a PBKDF2 iteration count, by modern standards. In "normal" cryptographic protocols we would generally be using a default closer to 32768 == 2^15 (which I see is the default *max* count value, and there is additional discussion of the issue in the leaf description for that leaf). Perhaps one could make an argument that this is just for test setups and the keys and data exchanged are "not very valuable", but there is always risk of key sharing across protocols, and my preference is to present the strong defaults and give users the option to reduce where appropriate. What are the authors' thoughts here? Section 7 There are probably more nodes that can get called out as particularly vulnerable, such as the count and max-count nodes that can cause a long time to be spent on PBKDF2 iterations, the dscp markings, the mode bitmask, etc. Appendix A The elements appear to be using base64-encoded values. Where is it specified that such encoding is used for the binary values? (I assume this is just my ignorance of a generic standard, so please enlighten me!) Am I reading it right that the 30 means 2^30 (one billion) PBKDF2 iterations? Has this actually been run in practice? It seems like it would be painfully slow. 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-18_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=931 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806180192 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:44:41 -0000 SGkgTWlyamEsDQoNCi4uLg0KPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+IENPTU1FTlQ6DQo+IC0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0NCj4gDQo+IEhpZ2ggbGV2ZWwgcXVlc3Rpb246IEhvdyBkb2VzIHRoaXMgWUFORyBtb2Rl bCByZWxhdGUgdG8gdGhlIGxtYXAgWUFORw0KPiBtb2RlbCAocmZjODE5NCk/DQo+IA0KPiANClth Y21dIA0KVFdBTVAgYW5kIGl0cyBZQU5HIG1vZGVsIGNhbiBiZSB1c2VkIGluZGVwZW5kZW50bHkg ZnJvbSBMTUFQLCBvZiBjb3Vyc2UuDQoNCldpdGggYSBMTUFQIE1lYXN1cmVtZW50IEFnZW50IChN QSksIHRoZXJlIHJlbWFpbnMgYSBuZWVkIHRvIG9wZXJhdGUgYSANCnByb3RvY29sIGZvciBBY3Rp dmUgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnQsIGFuZCBpbiB0aGlzIGNhc2UgdGhlcmUgaXMgc29tZSBvdmVybGFwDQpi ZXR3ZWVuIExNQVAgQ29udHJvbGxlciByZXF1ZXN0cyBhbmQgVFdBTVAgQ29udHJvbC1DbGllbnQg Y29uZmlndXJhdGlvbg0KKHNpbmNlIHRoZXkgYXJlIGxpa2VseSBjby1sb2NhdGVkLCBzZWUgRmln dXJlIDE6DQpodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvcmZjNzU5NCNwYWdlLTkgKSBpZiBU V0FNUCBpcyBjaG9zZW4uDQoNCkFsc28sIExNQVAgZG9lcyBub3QgcHJvdmlkZSBhIG1lYW5zIHRv IGNvbnRyb2wgYW5kIGNvbmZpZ3VyZSB0aGUgDQpNZWFzdXJlbWVudCBQZWVyIChNUCBpbiBGaWd1 cmUgMSBvZiB0aGUgTE1BUCBGcmFtZXdvcmspLCBzbyB0aGUgVFdBTVANCllBTkcgbW9kZWwgY2Fu IGJlIHVzZWQgdGhlcmUgYXMgd2VsbC4gQm9vdHN0cmFwcGluZyBjYW4gYmUgYWlkZWQgYnkgdGhl DQpUV0FNUCBZQU5HIG1vZGVsIGFzIHdlbGwgKHNpbmNlIEJvb3RzdHJhcHBpbmcgd2FzIGJleW9u ZCBMTUFQIHNjb3BlKS4NCg0KaG9wZSB0aGlzIGhlbHBzLA0KQWwNCg0K From nobody Mon Jun 18 11:21:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC245130E0D; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:21:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alexey Melnikov To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152934608389.3133.2274420278447626291.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:21:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:21:24 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bit unauth-test-encrpyt-control { I think you probably mean "encrypt" above position 3; description "When using the Mixed Security Mode, the TWAMP-Test protocol follows the Unauthenticated mode and the TWAMP-Control protocol the Encrypted mode."; reference "RFC 5618: Mixed Security Mode for the Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP)"; } On pages 25-26: grouping key-management { list key-chain { key key-id; leaf key-id { type string { length 1..80; } description "KeyID used for a TWAMP-Control connection. As per Section 3.1 of RFC 4656, KeyID is 'a UTF-8 string, up to 80 octets in length' and is used to select which 'shared This makes me slightly uncomfortable about possibility of truncating a UTF-8 encoding of some Unicode characters, but this probably doesn't matter in reality. Are these likely to be used for display? shared secret the [Control-Client] wishes to use to authenticate or encrypt'."; From nobody Mon Jun 18 16:12:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30382130E7A; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:11:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Warren Kumari To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org, Brian Trammell , Nevil Brownlee , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152936351218.3277.17167068947318886658.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:11:52 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 23:11:53 -0000 Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rich version of this review at: https://mozphab-ietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net/D6118 Thank you for writing this. Note that I'm using a new tool for balloting, apologies in advance if it goes Boom! Also apologies for the terseness / tone, still getting use to the tooling, and not sure what shows up where. COMMENTS S 1. > aspects of IP packets can influence its processing during transfer > across the network. > > In Section 15 of [RFC2330], the notion of a "standard-formed" packet > is defined. However, the definition was never updated to include > IPv6, as the original authors planned. Nit: This is slightly ambiguous - it is unclear if "As the authors intended, it was not updated", or if the authors planned to update it, and never did. S 3. > This suggests we devise a metric or suite of metrics that attempt to > determine C. > > Load balancing over parallel paths is one particular example where > such a class C would be more complex to determine in IPPM > measurements. Load balancers often use flow identifiers, computed as I think you might want "load balancers and routers" here. Generally a load-balancer is used to mean something which chooses a server (or cluster of servers) to direct a packet / transaction to. Hashing to choose amongst parallel paths is more likely to be a router (yes, the terminology gets squishy - a router doing this is in fact load- balancing amongst links / paths, but...) S 3. > fields that are used for the forwarding decision, are not known when > measuring the path as a black-box. Potential assessment scenarios > include the measurement of one of the parallel paths, and the > measurement of all available parallel paths that the load balancer > can use. Knowledge of a load balancer's flow definition > (alternatively: its class C specific treatment in terms of header I realize that RFC2330 also used this term, but it was less jarring there (it is also only used once) - I think that you might want to clarify that "class C" is used here in a different way to "class C addresses". I don't have any text to suggest though... S 4. > o Its total length as given in the IPv4 header corresponds to the > size of the IPv4 header plus the size of the payload. > > o Either the packet possesses sufficient TTL to travel from the > Source to the Destination if the TTL is decremented by one at each > hop, or it possesses the maximum TTL of 255. I'm confused here - why do you need to add the "or 255 bit"? Are you saying that a IPv4 packet that has a TTL of 255 sent to a destination that is 300 hops away is still "standard-formed"? (not that that would work anyway!) Surely just saying "Either the packet possesses sufficient TTL to travel from the Source to the Destination" is enough? (255, as used by some protocols is more than sufficient for their single hop). This feels like over specifying, leading to confusion. S 4. > the packet, and the headers appear in the standard-conforming > order (Next Header). > > o All parameters used in the header and Extension Headers are found > in the IANA Registry of Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6) > Parameters, partly specified in [IANA-6P]. I'm confused again -- this says that all parameters must be in the "IANA Registry of Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6) Parameters". Ok, cool. But which part of that registry isn't specified by https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-parameters/ipv6-parameters.xhtml? (why the "partly")? From nobody Tue Jun 19 10:15:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FAB313119D; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:15:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152942854364.32653.9842727466396628576.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:15:43 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:15:53 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Substantive: §7: The security consideration lists a couple of examples of writeable nodes that might be vulnerable. I'd like to see an actual list of nodes thought to be vulnerable, along with a sentence or two describing the risks for each. Are there no nodes that are privacy (or otherwise) sensitive when just readable? Editorial: - Title/abstract: It seems like there's a bit more than a data model here; there some normative behavior as well. §3.3: - first bullet: s/ "identical with " / "identical to " - third bullet: "such as" and "for example" are redundant. 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Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:07:04 -0500 Received: from mail-azure.research.att.com (mail-azure.research.att.com [135.207.255.18]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5JK6uXp013648; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:06:57 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-azure.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0864E133E; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:06:41 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org" , Nalini Elkins , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUBx/66dDOFpF2gkaD6WkmXjD4paRoAgcA Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 20:06:55 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92DDA6@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152933869439.3647.15290297683322606646.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <152933869439.3647.15290297683322606646.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.16.251.151] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:10:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152944622609.32522.2758786882414620112.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:10:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:10:27 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rich version of this review at: https://mozphab-ietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net/D3912 COMMENTS S 6.1. > Figure 8 shows a configuration example for a Control-Client with > client/admin-state enabled. In a real implementation following > Figure 2 this would permit the initiation of TWAMP-Control > connections and TWAMP-Test sessions. > > [note: '\' line wrapping is for formatting only] Most of these examples do not contain any line wrapping. S 7. > > > > 7. Security Considerations > > The YANG module specified in Section 5 this document defines a schema Some words about the threat model would be appreciated here. Is the assumption that the two sender and the reflector are owned by whoever runs the network and therefore they are not mounting an attack? If not, what is the model? From nobody Tue Jun 19 15:38:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29CF7130FB7; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:38:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sZqe5Gh6kk1C; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D98D130E4A; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049463.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049463.ppops.net-00191d01. 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(GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5JMc0fA015158; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:38:00 -0500 Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (mail-green.research.att.com [135.207.255.15]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5JMbqFd014828; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:37:53 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6D73E26B2; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:37:37 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Warren Kumari , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org" , Brian Trammell , Nevil Brownlee , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Warren Kumari's No Objection on 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scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806190242 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:38:18 -0000 SGkgV2FycmVuLA0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3VyIHJldmlldy4NCkxldCdzIHRha2UgYSBsb29rIGF0 IHlvdXIgY29tbWVudHMuDQoNCkNvLWF1dGhvcnMsIHNlZSBXYXJyZW4ncyBsYXN0IGNvbW1lbnQs IGluIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIuDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTog V2FycmVuIEt1bWFyaSBbbWFpbHRvOndhcnJlbkBrdW1hcmkubmV0XQ0KPiBTZW50OiBNb25kYXks IEp1bmUgMTgsIDIwMTggNzoxMiBQTQ0KLi4uIA0KPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+IENPTU1FTlQ6 DQo+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t 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IHJlY29sbGVjdCB3aHkgd2Ugc2FpZCAicGFydGx5IiB0aGVyZS4gDQpCdXQgdGhpcyBpcyByZWNl bnRseSBlZGl0ZWQgdGV4dCAoTGFzdCBDYWxsIGNvbW1lbnRzLCBJIHRoaW5rKQ0KYW5kIHdlIHNo b3VsZCBiZSBhYmxlIHRvIHJlc3VycmVjdCB0aGUgcmF0aW9uYWxlLi4uDQoNCkFsDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Jun 19 16:44:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C21B130EAC for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:44:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tQNarL15hVYL for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chinatelecom.cn (prt-mail.chinatelecom.cn 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=0A
= Hi,  Guiseppe and all=A3=AC

Permance measurement is important for both carrie= r network and OTT.  This draft is positioned as&n= bsp;an extension of RFC8321,  I think it&nbs= p;is very valulable and worth doing in the&n= bsp;coming days. 

Thank you!

Chongfeng Xie 

[ippm] FW: New Version Notification f= or draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt

Fioccola Giuseppe= <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it> Mon, 04 June 2018 15:32 UTCShow header

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= From: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>
= To: "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>
CC= : "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, "Qin Wu (bill.wu@hu= awei.com)" <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "Tal Mizrahi (talmi@marvell.com)" &= lt;talmi@marvell.com>, "Huangyihong (Rachel) (rachel.huang@huawei.com)"= <rachel.huang@huawei.com>, "'draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mar= k@ietf.org'" <draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org>
= Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ipp= m-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt
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Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2018 15:32:05 +00= 00
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Subject: [ippm] FW: New Versi= on Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt
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Hi All,=0AThis new version of the draft ad=
dresses the comments received during the last few weeks.=0AI want to thank=
 Qin, Tal and Rachel for their fruitful inputs that have helped to improve=
 the document structure.=0AThis new revision includes a better description=
 of:=0A- the scope of multipoint alternate marking with respect to the bas=
e alternate marking approach (RFC8321),=0A- the algorithm for Cluster part=
ition with a step-by-step example,=0A- the delay measurement methods appli=
cable for multipoint paths,=0A- the classification between multipoint path=
s basis and single packet basis delay measurement.=0AWould appreciate addi=
tional feedbacks.=0ABest Regards,=0AGiuseppe=0A-----Original Message-----=
=0AFrom: internet-drafts@ietf.=
org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] =0ASent: luned=A8=AC 4 giugno 20=
18 17:05=0ATo: Riccardo Sisto <riccardo.sisto@polito.it>;; Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@t=
elecomitalia.it>;; Cociglio Mauro <mauro.cociglio@telecomitalia.it>;; Ame=
deo Sapio <amedeo.sapi=
o@polito.it>;=0ASubject: New Version Notification for draft-fioccol=
a-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt=0AA new version of I-D, draft-fioccola-i=
ppm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt=0Ahas been successfully submitted by Giusep=
pe Fioccola and posted to the IETF repository.=0AName:		draft-fioccola-ipp=
m-multipoint-alt-mark=0ARevision:	03=0ATitle:		Multipoint Alternate Markin=
g method for passive and hybrid performance monitoring=0ADocument date:	20=
18-06-04=0AGroup:		Individual Submission=0APages:		18=0AURL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/=
draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03.txt=0AStatus:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-ip=
pm-multipoint-alt-mark/=0AHtmlized:       ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03=
=0AHtmlized:       https://datatracker.ie=
tf.org/doc/html/draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark=0ADiff:       =
    https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3D=
draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-03=0AAbstract:=0A   The Altern=
ate Marking method, as presented in RFC 8321 [RFC8321], can=0A   be applie=
d only to point-to-point flows because it assumes that all=0A   the packet=
s of the flow measured on one node are measured again by a=0A   single sec=
ond node.  This document aims to generalize and expand this=0A   methodolo=
gy to measure any kind of unicast flows, whose packets can=0A   follow sev=
eral different paths in the network, in wider terms a=0A   multipoint-to-m=
ultipoint network.  For this reason the technique here=0A   described is c=
alled Multipoint Alternate Marking.  Some definitions=0A   here introduced=
 extend the scope of RFC 5644 [RFC5644] in the context=0A   of alternate m=
arking schema.=0A                                                         =
                         =0APlease note that it may take a couple of minut=
es from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are ava=
ilable at tools.ietf.=
org.=0AThe IETF Secretariat=0AQuesto messaggio e i suoi allegati sono =
indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o q=
ualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni so=
no rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per er=
rore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mitten=
te e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie. =0AThis e-mail and any at=
tachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended =
for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anyb=
ody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please de=
lete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by return e-ma=
il, Thanks. =0ARispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =A8=A8=
 necessario.=0A

=0A
xiechf.bri@chinatele= com.cn
=0A ------=_001_NextPart854250122574_=------ From nobody Tue Jun 19 20:25:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59798130DFC; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 20:25:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org, Brian Trammell , Nevil Brownlee , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152946514936.32242.15260380803081346147.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 20:25:49 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 03:25:50 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Requirements Language: Please use the actual boilerplate specified in RFC 8174. From nobody Tue Jun 19 21:02:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD17D130EA7; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 21:02:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Pete Resnick To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152946732769.32402.15646758857363676488@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 21:02:07 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 04:02:08 -0000 Reviewer: Pete Resnick Review result: Ready with Issues I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11 Reviewer: Pete Resnick Review Date: 2018-06-19 IETF LC End Date: 2018-04-27 IESG Telechat date: 2018-06-21 Summary: Ready with maybe Issues, but probably just Nits. Not my area of expertise by any means, but the document looks generally solid. Could definitely use a bit of copy editing. Major issues: None. Minor issues: I don't think there are any issues here. However, some of the things I've got as Nits in the below section could amount to actual issues if I've misunderstood what you meant. The editorial suggestions I give below should be fine if they are nits, but do make sure that I haven't identified a real issue. Nits/editorial comments: 3.1 - s/The test session name that MUST be identical/The test session name, which MUST be identical (Unless you mean something really weird that I don't think you mean. If you don't see the difference, then trust me, you mean "which", not "that".) 4.1 - OLD Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent integers increase by one. This is a bit confusing. I think you mean: NEW Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned integer. Values for the priority start with zero, the highest priority, and subsequent priority value increases by one. OLD In turn, each ctrl-connection holds a list of test-session-request. test-session-request holds information associated with the Control- Client for this test session. A bit awkward. I suggest: NEW In turn, each ctrl-connection holds a test-session-request list. Each test-session-request holds information associated with the Control-Client for this test session. OLD The Control-Client is also responsible for scheduling TWAMP-Test sessions so test-session-request holds information related to these actions (e.g. pm-index, repeat-interval). The word "so" in there is weird. Do you mean "therefore", or "such that", or something else? I just had a bit of trouble understanding what you meant. 4.2 - In the penultimate paragraph, change "key-id" to either "The key-id" or "The KeyID". Please note: I did not thoroughly review the YANG in section 5.2 or the examples in Section 6 or Appendix A. I gave them a quick run through, but did not check for complete consistency with the rest of the text. The below two items are simply things I happened to spot because I was looking at particular pieces of the module. 5.2 - leaf priority { type uint16; description "Indicates the Control-Client Mode preference priority expressed as a 16-bit unsigned integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent values monotonically increasing."; } I am almost positive that you don't mean "monotonically increasing". I'm guessing you mean "increase by one". Depending on the Modes available in the TWAMP Server Greeting message (see Fig. 2 of RFC 7717), the this Control-Client MUST choose the highest priority Mode from the configured mode-preference-chain list."; Typo: "the this Control-Client" From nobody Tue Jun 19 22:05:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D75D13102B; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:05:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oPhl988jeEyw; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x241.google.com (mail-pf0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C781130EE8; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x241.google.com with SMTP id q1-v6so967322pff.13; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:05:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=RCbWght1RRwA3OIE4p4AbsL2erXC1uJn3MYLXmAzSb4=; b=B1Co8y6deVfpU2N1Syu8V7es8yZQhlJWuVCBXTzXDPq0T9NdUBNpgI+yPxWjKHV2Ly Lm/xu5WpvM1vEvlPoHIkCOKgiACyoJ3lSNOqgnv1tH8GaxyTqlmVQZhRKW5keULkRcvU beeRd1XyU7kKmVVVGuRgprf2TjWmRd9XXiCrYbSXn+yO1+2bznCAXC1rUI5AguFDBSr6 euRD+ab3nCG5EWobVvfqeuvg4Y8v7KS0+0G08x91WwOGD6/h72wa7AfmHpSScy/ry4e1 /YdDVMW9v1RixSPLufpGETnHj0AFxVqIz2f1mM4dAe6zhbJxWgdGn3R7rzWlhQ2lqn+O 6VBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=RCbWght1RRwA3OIE4p4AbsL2erXC1uJn3MYLXmAzSb4=; b=CH6M28/TUBObj0j0GOFQ0sJUXGn28ENydQijLyB4enZzwQOR0iQNgbUsXLU/bBxFN/ jd9nqKBAzBLGLd+a0fy6IVAN46LZFm3oEtC7SZQsUh91kXJhj50KkYJt5vKGt0MaNUTy MKkS1faNSa5mH8v2u51D1yXBFhPVn02n+pKYwsz9EF/2OBAIlAszbbNvIMbjpM9ziOlk EWGiYUNAsW1SxlOMOHtelrHzIcv2j93txQL/v6meOKzOtC6PSeIMqff6KJSPDushQOdL 488ZFYZCH56ac0soWWNlbGhPtOrqVIt4qmkftrBdNp4poqf7bYmSSJY9Qz+UFGFfFKRb 3rIw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0dBKIM43fkesCaDkkPacz0maYC1x0U6UVUsxn6tCspaQ7V7TEZ hPHqlwvaDPiZeEI6SEk+ZrpdzU2L X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKKq0kHnH2orKoeV2bDXvwjlrcGsMxF4ZFU0PCUOc/wqgnIRlvviB3iRaV9ANIgfl4qfR6Y/2Q== X-Received: by 2002:a62:d345:: with SMTP id q66-v6mr21039395pfg.158.1529471144551; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:bd73:5262:8df:7907? ([2601:647:4700:1280:bd73:5262:8df:7907]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u90-v6sm2264409pfa.101.2018.06.19.22.05.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <152942854364.32653.9842727466396628576.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:05:41 -0700 Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <16F92E66-3E5B-4E94-BF98-364964B05FA4@gmail.com> References: <152942854364.32653.9842727466396628576.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Ben Campbell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:05:48 -0000 Hi Ben, Please see inline with [mj]. > On Jun 19, 2018, at 10:15 AM, Ben Campbell wrote: >=20 > Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Substantive: >=20 > =C2=A77: >=20 > The security consideration lists a couple of examples of writeable = nodes that > might be vulnerable. I'd like to see an actual list of nodes thought = to be > vulnerable, along with a sentence or two describing the risks for = each. >=20 > Are there no nodes that are privacy (or otherwise) sensitive when just = readable? [mj] Readable nodes are sensitive. But as the section states, access to = readonly nodes is protected by the security layer over which the data = nodes are exchanged and by the use of access control (NACM). Just = because the nodes are readonly does not mean that anyone can read them. = In NACM, the =E2=80=98read-default=E2=80=99 can be set to =E2=80=98deny=E2= =80=99, in which case unless a matching rule is found, read of any kind = is denied. As for a list of nodes thought to be vulnerable, I assume you want to = know the impact w.r.t. TWAMP. We have singled out timeout values as = vulnerable because we understand its operational impact w.r.t. TWAMP, = i.e. untimely timeouts or sessions not timing out at all etc. For the = remaining nodes, we have not been able to do the same, particularly as = it relates to TWAMP. >=20 > Editorial: >=20 > - Title/abstract: It seems like there's a bit more than a data model = here; > there some normative behavior as well. [mj] I am not sure of the normative behavior that you refer to. Could = you elaborate?=20 >=20 > =C2=A73.3: > - first bullet: s/ "identical with " / "identical to " > - third bullet: "such as" and "for example" are redundant. [mj] Will fix both of the typos. >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Tue Jun 19 22:36:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBA09131045; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:36:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tY0FsKnJWm8g; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x234.google.com (mail-pl0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36155130EB9; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x234.google.com with SMTP id c23-v6so1100231plz.12; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:36:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=qznZ3Epv2P8oj/ev+ylQ8WUj0A4GeLFhhxU3VCutoUw=; b=UOzlUWdRI08pDODhomzPVY+2gOua6OHdnCWvs24Vnyu1yd953JJxmsxIoPv0Oua60i Bx5Wc4cBWAA+Vkr9tou+7uRE57FHr57xwQXO+IXyrOoQoFynILlXTR1EskbqvDjTu0MC /1EkMzHuJqvjstVlj1yKg73Lp4z2i6gv0IbO/v36XrmcJFX2ZQxuFOvpIeMyOJK/i379 NeuJnU0gpzi5W/YpN0xSWj2lV+50fIBzQa20K8KcM5vEKr8WjLd3nyZPYQe34tSjw9AO TWpAWjGEE4a9YWxyYY7tTWUmBrJzq7ALiB3ONBx7k3voqRESNEQ0Eo620Hp7vbPWhXU0 M5rg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=qznZ3Epv2P8oj/ev+ylQ8WUj0A4GeLFhhxU3VCutoUw=; b=eDt1ti6KNOylMtChO9b9jHyR9FINQh9zM2OxQ0RsC3Un5xUKXhcoSPDXdg+c/754U0 zvUjzs2FAOsj6l5VsG6ehtR5/STRNwfg4pXQi11BTtZ4iJOAO+FNpj3RyELDFmKs87XO gGD6s04RrGawCcuv8wI0vUzCxXBoOcULN/xZqFGGmDd2w9GGobPXHkukTEFd4Ar7c2i9 l0KZPh01I5/IWbu2ANAtZEvvnVUIFqtE37SNrcjn7Q+PeiBZ7rB6zKAdqDOhHuOtkijc 0C5m8UmHtXHRFt18P7cq6QjzuQPXB7JLqC4YPtz60JMfhxNRJLlAJngNveINZje3l93O JxNw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3BVaJzY0AAAUqe61irOpBUPZXl9EMWz9IcWelhcTATTi3pOD5D HmwCfE9OWlhbzPGvgc8xrfTDA0Wg8MY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKISrCCzEJ59vAIL/yfMStJm7ZoPoMvl+1QPxalBFH0ISD1G/9mfR362d/AljHE2WBNDDEDgNw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:bd95:: with SMTP id q21-v6mr21865744pls.237.1529472969740; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:bd73:5262:8df:7907? ([2601:647:4700:1280:bd73:5262:8df:7907]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k80-v6sm2504610pfa.168.2018.06.19.22.36.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:36:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D26D92A3-18A5-45D3-A3DA-E7025FC80CAB" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:36:06 -0700 In-Reply-To: <152946732769.32402.15646758857363676488@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: gen-art@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang.all@ietf.org To: Pete Resnick References: <152946732769.32402.15646758857363676488@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:36:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D26D92A3-18A5-45D3-A3DA-E7025FC80CAB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Pete, > On Jun 19, 2018, at 9:02 PM, Pete Resnick = wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: Pete Resnick > Review result: Ready with Issues >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your > document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >=20 > For more information, please see the FAQ at >=20 > . >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11 > Reviewer: Pete Resnick > Review Date: 2018-06-19 > IETF LC End Date: 2018-04-27 > IESG Telechat date: 2018-06-21 >=20 > Summary: >=20 > Ready with maybe Issues, but probably just Nits. Not my area of = expertise by > any means, but the document looks generally solid. Could definitely = use a bit > of copy editing. >=20 > Major issues: >=20 > None. >=20 > Minor issues: >=20 > I don't think there are any issues here. However, some of the things = I've got > as Nits in the below section could amount to actual issues if I've > misunderstood what you meant. The editorial suggestions I give below = should be > fine if they are nits, but do make sure that I haven't identified a = real issue. >=20 > Nits/editorial comments: >=20 > 3.1 - s/The test session name that MUST be identical/The test session = name, > which MUST be identical (Unless you mean something really weird that I = don't > think you mean. If you don't see the difference, then trust me, you = mean > "which", not "that=E2=80=9D.) You mean in Section 3.3. How about s/The test session name that MUST be = identical with the/The test session name MUST be identical to the/? >=20 > 4.1 - >=20 > OLD > Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the > mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned > integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent integers > increase by one. >=20 > This is a bit confusing. I think you mean: >=20 > NEW > Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the mode and its > corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned integer. > Values for the priority start with zero, the highest priority, and > subsequent priority value increases by one. I can see why this can be confusing. How about ... NEW Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the mode and its corresponding priority as a 16-bit unsigned integer. Values for the priority start with zero, the highest = priority, and=20 decreasing priority value is indicated by every increase of value by = one. >=20 > OLD > In turn, each ctrl-connection holds a list of test-session-request. > test-session-request holds information associated with the Control- > Client for this test session. >=20 > A bit awkward. I suggest: >=20 > NEW > In turn, each ctrl-connection holds a test-session-request list. = Each > test-session-request holds information associated with the > Control-Client for this test session. Ok. >=20 > OLD > The Control-Client is also responsible for scheduling TWAMP-Test > sessions so test-session-request holds information related to these > actions (e.g. pm-index, repeat-interval). >=20 > The word "so" in there is weird. Do you mean "therefore", or "such = that", or > something else? I just had a bit of trouble understanding what you = meant. We meant =E2=80=9Ctherefore=E2=80=9D. Will make the change. >=20 > 4.2 - In the penultimate paragraph, change "key-id" to either "The = key-id" or > "The KeyID=E2=80=9D. Will change it to =E2=80=9CThe key-id=E2=80=9D. >=20 > Please note: I did not thoroughly review the YANG in section 5.2 or = the > examples in Section 6 or Appendix A. I gave them a quick run through, = but did > not check for complete consistency with the rest of the text. The = below two > items are simply things I happened to spot because I was looking at = particular > pieces of the module. >=20 > 5.2 - >=20 > leaf priority { > type uint16; > description > "Indicates the Control-Client Mode preference priority > expressed as a 16-bit unsigned integer, where zero is > the highest priority and subsequent values > monotonically increasing."; > } >=20 > I am almost positive that you don't mean "monotonically increasing". = I'm > guessing you mean "increase by one=E2=80=9D. Will update this description to match the comment you made above or = whatever we agree to. >=20 > Depending on the Modes available in the TWAMP Server > Greeting message (see Fig. 2 of RFC 7717), the > this Control-Client MUST choose the highest priority > Mode from the configured mode-preference-chain list."; >=20 > Typo: "the this Control-Client=E2=80=9D Will fix it to say =E2=80=9Cthe Control-Client=E2=80=9D. Thanks. >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_D26D92A3-18A5-45D3-A3DA-E7025FC80CAB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Pete,

On Jun 19, 2018, at 9:02 PM, Pete Resnick = <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com> wrote:

Reviewer: Pete Resnick
Review result: Ready = with Issues

I am the assigned Gen-ART = reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team = (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by = the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your
document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the = draft.

For more information, please see the = FAQ at

<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.

Document: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11
Reviewer: Pete Resnick
Review Date: = 2018-06-19
IETF LC End Date: 2018-04-27
IESG = Telechat date: 2018-06-21

Summary:

Ready with maybe Issues, but probably just = Nits. Not my area of expertise by
any means, but the = document looks generally solid. Could definitely use a bit
of copy editing.

Major = issues:

None.

Minor issues:

I don't think = there are any issues here. However, some of the things I've got
as Nits in the below section could amount to actual issues if = I've
misunderstood what you meant. The editorial = suggestions I give below should be
fine if they are nits, = but do make sure that I haven't identified a real issue.
Nits/editorial comments:

3.1 - = s/The test session name that MUST be identical/The test session name,
which MUST be identical (Unless you mean something really = weird that I don't
think you mean. If you don't see the = difference, then trust me, you mean
"which", not = "that=E2=80=9D.)

You mean in Section 3.3. How about s/The test session = name that MUST be identical with the/The test session name MUST be = identical to the/?


4.1 -

OLD
  Specifically, = mode-preference-chain lists the
  mode and its = corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned
=   integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent = integers
  increase by one.

This is a bit confusing. I think you mean:

NEW
  Specifically, = mode-preference-chain lists the mode and its
=   corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned = integer.
  Values for the priority start with = zero, the highest priority, and
  subsequent = priority value increases by one.

I can see = why this can be confusing. How about ...

NEW
   Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the
   mode and its corresponding priority as a 16-bit unsigned
   integer. Values for the priority start with zero, the highest =
priority, and 
   decreasing =
priority value is indicated by every increase of value by one.


OLD
=   In turn, each ctrl-connection holds a list of = test-session-request.
  test-session-request = holds information associated with the Control-
=   Client for this test session.

A = bit awkward. I suggest:

NEW
=   In turn, each ctrl-connection holds a test-session-request = list. Each
  test-session-request holds = information associated with the
=   Control-Client for this test session.

Ok.


OLD
  The Control-Client is also responsible for = scheduling TWAMP-Test
  sessions so = test-session-request holds information related to these
=   actions (e.g. pm-index, repeat-interval).

The word "so" in there is weird. Do you mean "therefore", or = "such that", or
something else? I just had a bit of = trouble understanding what you meant.

We meant = =E2=80=9Ctherefore=E2=80=9D. Will make the change.


4.2 - In the penultimate paragraph, change = "key-id" to either "The key-id" or
"The KeyID=E2=80=9D.

Will = change it to =E2=80=9CThe key-id=E2=80=9D.


Please note: I did not thoroughly review the = YANG in section 5.2 or the
examples in Section 6 or = Appendix A. I gave them a quick run through, but did
not = check for complete consistency with the rest of the text. The below = two
items are simply things I happened to spot because I = was looking at particular
pieces of the module.

5.2 -

=           leaf = priority {
=             ty= pe uint16;
=             de= scription
=             &n= bsp; "Indicates the Control-Client Mode preference priority
=             &n= bsp;  expressed as a 16-bit unsigned integer, where zero is
=             &n= bsp;  the highest priority and subsequent values
=             &n= bsp;  monotonically increasing.";
=           }

I am almost positive that you don't mean = "monotonically increasing". I'm
guessing you mean = "increase by one=E2=80=9D.
Will update this description to match the comment you = made above or whatever we agree to.


=             &n= bsp;Depending on the Modes available in the TWAMP Server
=             &n= bsp;Greeting message (see Fig. 2 of RFC 7717), the
=             &n= bsp;this Control-Client MUST choose the highest priority
=             &n= bsp;Mode from the configured mode-preference-chain list.";

Typo: "the this = Control-Client=E2=80=9D

Will fix it to say =E2=80=9Cthe = Control-Client=E2=80=9D.

Thanks.




Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

= --Apple-Mail=_D26D92A3-18A5-45D3-A3DA-E7025FC80CAB-- From nobody Tue Jun 19 22:59:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42536130EB9; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:59:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rV20MY-2T6QB; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x243.google.com (mail-pl0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11E391292F1; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x243.google.com with SMTP id w17-v6so1140323pll.9; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:59:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IGGNWq6E8DqWWODLZfFRwxEkVKOgPW+mzPAJnPqIA6c=; b=PKmmKZCDQB1XxwZSDri2v9l3g9bzELBirSO7qeHLob4k+H+PZyuJXB8aZFw67r+/3q z+mUOT17DwSi+aNJNC7CzSUaE9rKclJ70jwA0pN0zKP7PMD8bIKT3jcYo8J+SgGdxH8a V1w/aDWmdyNZNpAtsa6aZWL6dc9Ox4X/3DFaIKdaXcK6hemGihTAANFz3CTk+pq5rQrO daQvVurmCL28XHzswrbqZhVihAS5jHT3TGWUQHN8rHb9BeP1up3MAHG/wXzsRT85ukC6 1dITP4wBxl3Wy3aLLmVGmPOUaC0CWokGIJeV5+lGczksAmf6rTrTYjE64xAzGbCBRD0p tHIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IGGNWq6E8DqWWODLZfFRwxEkVKOgPW+mzPAJnPqIA6c=; b=sJFoBM6SbK3hrRbUHLS4+dbTd+8jfuUF1iaKzm174KanF1sZ6Uoj3yHJgqanAtuIiC /glgw1s79zjmxfP5S/inFFo5N6RSrH9yxwTYJLClg5TWxGXKv2rePjpHR7jDrHw9Jt/9 Uqmis/FnHzYtlG+IEt4ddjiiD6dHx7syOMtY9gw9ZCaUnF61H51AaTAW3KBb+Xfs2ZBb AM0Yroig+jZmbmqxxO5+2EEJKD40+jIF7l85MiYvKokcsnQAUP2nLR/w1n2hvybhoHTa OAHgvj92aWI60LSVPJ6AeViZAi25Zq4BZYX3PArd6z40GhbOYrcE+msd0AWG+EJKDR7L xmmA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3Izt4GARWTcoCoSftKQDIr7xiKb/qrsbpFVZxPeFUWqnT/pZ8d cBGhgwv8oBwh1n/3fAG6WoVjgk+9q9M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJbxopQ3Mom32Dpz1GbxoqSZ5KWShKsSLBOlxzI6OpH/XOQ5DZbN9mTfOZq59IzfBTGp5NFWg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:15a8:: with SMTP id m37-v6mr22297868pla.219.1529474378437; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:bd73:5262:8df:7907? ([2601:647:4700:1280:bd73:5262:8df:7907]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s134-v6sm1516421pgc.30.2018.06.19.22.59.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <152944622609.32522.2758786882414620112.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:59:35 -0700 Cc: The IESG , Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9FBEDFB4-A343-4D2B-BA8F-A1BF3A5CB3F3@gmail.com> References: <152944622609.32522.2758786882414620112.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Eric Rescorla X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:59:42 -0000 Hi Eric, > On Jun 19, 2018, at 3:10 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: >=20 > Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Rich version of this review at: > https://mozphab-ietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net/D3912 >=20 >=20 >=20 > COMMENTS > S 6.1. >> Figure 8 shows a configuration example for a Control-Client with >> client/admin-state enabled. In a real implementation following >> Figure 2 this would permit the initiation of TWAMP-Control >> connections and TWAMP-Test sessions. >>=20 >> [note: '\' line wrapping is for formatting only] >=20 > Most of these examples do not contain any line wrapping. Will fix it. >=20 >=20 > S 7. >> >> >>=20 >> 7. Security Considerations >>=20 >> The YANG module specified in Section 5 this document defines a = schema >=20 > Some words about the threat model would be appreciated here. Is the > assumption that the two sender and the reflector are owned by whoever > runs the network and therefore they are not mounting an attack? If > not, what is the model? My co-authors will correct me if I am wrong, but generally, the = Control-Client, Session-Sender, the Server and the Session-Reflector are = owned by the same operator. The attack if any would be launched by a = third party trying to access the test infrastructure in order to disrupt = its operation. They could do that by overwriting the configuration of = any of the four logical entities within the model. Does that help? If so, I can try to phrase something around it in the = Security Considerations section. Thanks. >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Tue Jun 19 23:03:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDDDA130EB9 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:03:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sWRcGUsUQxMN for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22b.google.com (mail-oi0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5F6713104C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id h79-v6so1943345oig.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:03:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=bFYXLmHbQRXQDhfeX7pjRId34GiNv3NG2yXxSbsDycw=; b=iny4yYNJXHDKOPdGhVU/oYZdGGXJtl7R9FSDAAgfoolf7sgTjQBsM+ZJk+1psFeOsA HBUeqW5LpuClAI4/9Zv5mYCg//lPHzouAj1t2cZOr/3xZPnUl3qDllYpwZyvdLTSte+8 bdHIDNuHMPco9POOgad6szRvmkHsoXnOxUcMMDST37zZloy3rQShwCgHfSOpVHdZj4Vq taRuyC98WY2/Iiz6gl2Qp4FpmrDanFb4Nb0UF9vktzTOc++a2jK9reeRSm6ahC2Cnmgm lsgCy4hCWUVVcafVZhOXuI2DZGMsR43b/aXKIdLmTkaF7kTYlo58p8u9HUfMfp8rLWpm s9JA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=bFYXLmHbQRXQDhfeX7pjRId34GiNv3NG2yXxSbsDycw=; b=dtXy0l+gFT+77j1cWVmaZTluJ6fAT4YoUORPeCpXhZXy6flE+QjpDs15gOz1x+dk3f DRKf6gbxO0lUGnawXo2Kf4q4yoCPV86IYY7os5/ZDskpI68Ine7mdkdcyLS4CPW4Mcnd mOBYSQCtk1UY19+Qx6x64G7WqQji+w6KaryGJDYKvpvUIg+XFMgILIipfRkKiromkBZF bNH7BD4vxZKyCRziS9IMSyWiY+sJd2JjLQylUiMfBWFE1NBvPKUSuMhUe617EHpFtMof pI4GanfHmBMnMEDHcSGlFpbrKSA+cQUkMLrW6A1+jlVnsKZshevW4Ne97de65gWO8PBg E9WQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2EeAdjX1wmcFUfrGXEXB9sYEW4XerffhznCwX2QgAxMkBnfHw1 0sM64ukWSki0quxUW0KoRf/ULTl1Gr/tPM0Cegi20A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLHCElSB9ziXF6GmNGl40gDpGCjt7sAntVTbXxeSdpl6FoSH2SMttlwkOKHs7rn/fLJv2T1yBeB0FtL2lyXRsg= X-Received: by 2002:aca:c755:: with SMTP id x82-v6mr10497527oif.43.1529474583283; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:03:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ac9:3a8a:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:02:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9FBEDFB4-A343-4D2B-BA8F-A1BF3A5CB3F3@gmail.com> References: <152944622609.32522.2758786882414620112.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9FBEDFB4-A343-4D2B-BA8F-A1BF3A5CB3F3@gmail.com> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:02:22 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: The IESG , Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003ae1be056f0c8d68" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 06:03:08 -0000 --0000000000003ae1be056f0c8d68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 10:59 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani < mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Eric, > > > On Jun 19, 2018, at 3:10 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > > > Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria. > html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Rich version of this review at: > > https://mozphab-ietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net/D3912 > > > > > > > > COMMENTS > > S 6.1. > >> Figure 8 shows a configuration example for a Control-Client with > >> client/admin-state enabled. In a real implementation following > >> Figure 2 this would permit the initiation of TWAMP-Control > >> connections and TWAMP-Test sessions. > >> > >> [note: '\' line wrapping is for formatting only] > > > > Most of these examples do not contain any line wrapping. > > Will fix it. > > > > > > > S 7. > >> > >> > >> > >> 7. Security Considerations > >> > >> The YANG module specified in Section 5 this document defines a > schema > > > > Some words about the threat model would be appreciated here. Is the > > assumption that the two sender and the reflector are owned by whoever > > runs the network and therefore they are not mounting an attack? If > > not, what is the model? > > My co-authors will correct me if I am wrong, but generally, the > Control-Client, Session-Sender, the Server and the Session-Reflector are > owned by the same operator. The attack if any would be launched by a third > party trying to access the test infrastructure in order to disrupt its > operation. They could do that by overwriting the configuration of any of > the four logical entities within the model. > > Does that help? If so, I can try to phrase something around it in the > Security Considerations section. > It does. Do you think you could add something -Ekr > Thanks. > > > > > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > --0000000000003ae1be056f0c8d68 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 10:59 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanan= dani@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi E= ric,

> On Jun 19, 2018, at 3:10 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:
>
> Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<= br> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
> COMMENT:
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> Rich version of this review at:
> https://mozphab-ietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net/D= 3912
>
>
>
> COMMENTS
> S 6.1.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Figure 8 shows a configuration example for a Co= ntrol-Client with
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0client/admin-state enabled.=C2=A0 In a real imp= lementation following
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Figure 2 this would permit the initiation of TW= AMP-Control
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0connections and TWAMP-Test sessions.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[note: '\' line wrapping is for formatt= ing only]
>
> Most of these examples do not contain any line wrapping.

Will fix it.

>
>
> S 7.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</twamp>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</data>
>>
>>=C2=A0 7.=C2=A0 Security Considerations
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The YANG module specified in Section 5 this doc= ument defines a schema
>
> Some words about the threat model would be appreciated here. Is the > assumption that the two sender and the reflector are owned by whoever<= br> > runs the network and therefore they are not mounting an attack? If
> not, what is the model?

My co-authors will correct me if I am wrong, but generally, the Cont= rol-Client, Session-Sender, the Server and the Session-Reflector are owned = by the same operator. The attack if any would be launched by a third party = trying to access the test infrastructure in order to disrupt its operation.= They could do that by overwriting the configuration of any of the four log= ical entities within the model.

Does that help? If so, I can try to phrase something around it in the Secur= ity Considerations section.

It does. Do= you think you could add something

-Ekr
=

Thanks.

>
>

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com


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ESMTP id 3E89D131065; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 02:36:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Suresh Krishnan To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152948741624.11831.6942344673743649925.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 02:36:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:36:57 -0000 Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It would be good if the yang model can be updated to refer to the NTPv4 specification (RFC5905) for the timestamps. It is currently referring to the obsolete NTPv3 specification (RFC1305 which is not listed in the references section) to describe the timestamp format. From nobody Wed Jun 20 05:18:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC5E130E53; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:18:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=qti.qualcomm.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iFvjw15vAh1n; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alexa-out-sd-01.qualcomm.com (alexa-out-sd-01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7221D1277CC; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:18:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1529497090; x=1561033090; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XB2eEEWZxdqL4UJmbeHvh0yjEmFRcRnkQatf6O+j2v8=; b=UjFDCArR6NNrBNDGTU3bbP6mijluL8mIBmC5CoDe+HqBZmsN9aCy8yeH WLM39bap0UzUTEo+Wd0K8b9lRJAGJEFPvXFpYjrQ8glfMSqP0vQzVwp5+ /bEXET+3kWs342WuoMOv7qmIFmYi6s0vGSlMXpDDEMD/hCqtMHCP8HpVp 8=; Received: from unknown (HELO ironmsg01-sd.qualcomm.com) ([10.53.140.141]) by alexa-out-sd-01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 20 Jun 2018 05:18:10 -0700 Received: from nasanexm01f.na.qualcomm.com ([10.85.0.32]) by ironmsg01-sd.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 20 Jun 2018 05:18:10 -0700 Received: from [172.16.1.204] (10.80.80.8) by NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1365.1; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:18:09 -0700 From: Pete Resnick To: Mahesh Jethanandani CC: , , , Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 07:18:07 -0500 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.11.2r5479) Message-ID: <1EF72E31-8D35-4CB8-BEC7-692E1B0C72B6@qti.qualcomm.com> In-Reply-To: References: <152946732769.32402.15646758857363676488@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [10.80.80.8] X-ClientProxiedBy: NASANEXM01G.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.33) To NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:18:13 -0000 Hi Mahesh, Trimming a bit: On 20 Jun 2018, at 0:36, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: >> 3.1 - s/The test session name that MUST be identical/The test session >> name, >> which MUST be identical (Unless you mean something really weird that >> I don't >> think you mean. If you don't see the difference, then trust me, you >> mean >> "which", not "that”.) > > You mean in Section 3.3. Yes, sorry about that. Section 3.1 has a similar problem: s/The test session name that uniquely identifies/The test session name, which uniquely identifies and I forgot to note that one. > How about s/The test session name that MUST be identical with the/The > test session name MUST be identical to the/? That's not quite right. You are giving a list of fields (as you say, "Primary configuration fields include:"), so you don't want something in that list that is a rule. The field is "the test session name", and that field MUST be identical to the client name. When you say, "the test session name that MUST be identical with...", it sounds like there is more than one test session name, and you're talking about the one that MUST be identical with the client name. Similarly with the above, it sounds like there's one test session name which uniquely identifies it, and one that doesn't uniquely identify it. That's not what you mean. >> 4.1 - >> >> OLD >> Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the >> mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned >> integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent integers >> increase by one. >> >> This is a bit confusing. I think you mean: >> >> NEW >> Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the mode and its >> corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned integer. >> Values for the priority start with zero, the highest priority, and >> subsequent priority value increases by one. > > I can see why this can be confusing. How about ... > > NEW > Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the > mode and its corresponding priority as a 16-bit unsigned > integer. Values for the priority start with zero, the highest > priority, and > decreasing priority value is indicated by every increase of value > by one. That's fine. It's a little verbose, but the RFC Editor can suggest any wordsmithing if necessary during their edit. >> OLD >> In turn, each ctrl-connection holds a list of test-session-request. >> test-session-request holds information associated with the Control- >> Client for this test session. >> >> A bit awkward. I suggest: >> >> NEW >> In turn, each ctrl-connection holds a test-session-request list. >> Each >> test-session-request holds information associated with the >> Control-Client for this test session. > > Ok. Thanks. >> OLD >> The Control-Client is also responsible for scheduling TWAMP-Test >> sessions so test-session-request holds information related to these >> actions (e.g. pm-index, repeat-interval). >> >> The word "so" in there is weird. Do you mean "therefore", or "such >> that", or >> something else? I just had a bit of trouble understanding what you >> meant. > > We meant “therefore”. Will make the change. Ah, good. The other solution is to put a comma before "so". >> 4.2 - In the penultimate paragraph, change "key-id" to either "The >> key-id" or >> "The KeyID”. > > Will change it to “The key-id”. Sounds good. >> Please note: I did not thoroughly review the YANG in section 5.2 or >> the >> examples in Section 6 or Appendix A. I gave them a quick run through, >> but did >> not check for complete consistency with the rest of the text. The >> below two >> items are simply things I happened to spot because I was looking at >> particular >> pieces of the module. >> >> 5.2 - >> >> leaf priority { >> type uint16; >> description >> "Indicates the Control-Client Mode preference priority >> expressed as a 16-bit unsigned integer, where zero is >> the highest priority and subsequent values >> monotonically increasing."; >> } >> >> I am almost positive that you don't mean "monotonically increasing". >> I'm >> guessing you mean "increase by one”. > > Will update this description to match the comment you made above or > whatever we agree to. Thanks. >> Depending on the Modes available in the TWAMP Server >> Greeting message (see Fig. 2 of RFC 7717), the >> this Control-Client MUST choose the highest priority >> Mode from the configured mode-preference-chain list."; >> >> Typo: "the this Control-Client” > > Will fix it to say “the Control-Client”. Perfect. > Thanks. Thanks for your speedy reply. pr From nobody Wed Jun 20 06:48:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9FA130EB1; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 06:48:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xvEHeB8nYjIJ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 06:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64023130E96; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 06:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0048589.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0048589.ppops.net-00191d01. 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(GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5KCOjHC006592; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 07:24:45 -0500 Received: from mail-azure.research.att.com (mail-azure.research.att.com [135.207.255.18]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5KCObeX006093; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 07:24:37 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-azure.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9143BE1BDB; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 08:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 08:24:20 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Eric Rescorla , Mahesh Jethanandani CC: The IESG , Nalini Elkins , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with 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<152950984681.28540.15458643208076088093.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 08:50:46 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:50:48 -0000 Ignas Bagdonas has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I have three large areas of questions related to this model. They are not related to the contents of the module itself but to the broader scope of where this model can and should fit in the overall context of practical manageability and usability. 1. Operational state. Section 2 defines operational aspects of the configured TWAMP mechanisms as being out of scope. How does that relate to the motivation goals in section 1? Having no common machine readable mechanism for retrieving measurement results and verifying the operation of measurement processes does not seem to help in reducing the need for proprietary mechanisms. 2. What is the compatibility of this model with NMDA? 3. Key storage. The document defines its own way of storing keys - while there are multiple existing ways to store keys (routing key-chain model, I2NSF, IPsec model, netconf-keystore). Why yet another key storage mechanism is required? What could be reused from other existing mechanisms? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RFC1305 is obsoleted by RFC5905. A nit suggestion - YANG examples typically look more readable in JSON encoding. IANA considerations section - likley the registrant contact should be the IESG and not the IPPM WG? From nobody Wed Jun 20 09:31:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB361310F6 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:30:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZGFpNWGFRqIE for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x230.google.com (mail-oi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B435C1310F3 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x230.google.com with SMTP id t133-v6so141280oif.10 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:30:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Kt1A5FUPyULJA2UIxKzzEkltCSnghLBpX5m7a5oLACY=; b=KGKcvx2W0B3yXxCKH27B0mPeQ60zZGXFRyjBjTjGTgWKTa7Z9438p7gFgRjPGsHWvo zlScGXmTRbU3BW8O9OU6gNlUVudWFwCeoibc9lEYUFXtKb9vuIwohOwy6mI5miwnReLj zyIZAWay0x5O3Wc8ctndB5vZXnGrltuDfexzxWPZFnVuoKJi5Fzr/u/wj6V62vj0IDn6 t3gULirRK0CnoXDdYPuHQfLXarvaACYUgaB+eL17GpRkgr9PumaDNmt0r1ckOAzu4WRq ZLjLxqDyzYSDOQOvj+xDbAF9zmnAAVKI+B3c1qkMzW5Q6Lr+yifqAKvqvYd8vS0wY0Rs 0FZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Kt1A5FUPyULJA2UIxKzzEkltCSnghLBpX5m7a5oLACY=; b=UxV2htjKruaym5LELlOgAJlpTFyeV+lnSQVH/9St1zGSePgT76F/MTTkjeZ21DErGA wzc6QHOKA5gaoskHbGssChKPXVGQKlMGj5e2l9+81oTTlvWwvpK8cl6mkldlLZjbFUFE q0GiNKUJya54borxbS3PGhneaf3euh875rYErcNug270DBgajxjMgtO5QjJ/mwXNBmaV wUfhr1kiHWiZTb78i0JCYpfbLQu/RE2aPToh1aKglat+e9Q5xDm3dRb3qK9dQX003epV tJFTAtFEiRh5oqO3B7kl1LLgXAmk0Hx3SzDOzKypPmFY5P1yfEmwfy4Nw0SwDOLAIkI6 uhqA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E1sAeOYY55YcTi0/5XGMCAVNXjxPRYJ3W7DQov5Htg6AeYQFn/W BspWjtBopXnBz5fMXbBz81MVX2XrU5K60fiVtPrHrrahy8w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKL6uip8kS6V433yLbBqL45mM8ew7othuuAKwq2AoD3FWvhy8cnmZP1mQ0CxORSaIxuIUHREThZH/URKKr2pG9Y= X-Received: by 2002:aca:e2d3:: with SMTP id z202-v6mr10314062oig.262.1529512244989; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:30:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ac9:3a8a:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:30:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92E055@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152944622609.32522.2758786882414620112.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9FBEDFB4-A343-4D2B-BA8F-A1BF3A5CB3F3@gmail.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92E055@njmtexg4.research.att.com> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:30:04 -0700 Message-ID: To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani , The IESG , Nalini Elkins , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000b13b9056f15526b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 16:30:57 -0000 --0000000000000b13b9056f15526b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sure On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 5:24 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote: > Hi Eric and Mahesh, > > > > *From:* Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 20, 2018 2:02 AM > *To:* Mahesh Jethanandani > *Cc:* The IESG ; Nalini Elkins < > nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; ippm-chairs@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: Eric Rescorla's No Objection on > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 10:59 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani < > mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Eric, > *[acm] *=E2=80=A6snip=E2=80=A6 > >> 7. Security Considerations > >> > >> The YANG module specified in Section 5 this document defines a > schema > > > > Some words about the threat model would be appreciated here. Is the > > assumption that the two sender and the reflector are owned by whoever > > runs the network and therefore they are not mounting an attack? If > > not, what is the model? > > My co-authors will correct me if I am wrong, but generally, the > Control-Client, Session-Sender, the Server and the Session-Reflector are > owned by the same operator. The attack if any would be launched by a thir= d > party trying to access the test infrastructure in order to disrupt its > operation. They could do that by overwriting the configuration of any of > the four logical entities within the model. > > Does that help? If so, I can try to phrase something around it in the > Security Considerations section. > > > > It does. Do you think you could add something > > > > -Ekr > > *[acm] * > > *Of course. FYI =E2=80=93 there was a suggestion to use TWAMP across* > > *peering links but ICMP was used instead (the KISS principle won).* > > > > *Something like:* > > > > *Virtually all existing measurement systems using TWAMP are * > > *administrated by the same network operator. Attacks on the * > > *measurement infrastructure could be launched by third-parties* > > *to commandeer the packet generation capability, corrupt the* > > *measurements, or other examples of nefarious acts.* > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > --0000000000000b13b9056f15526b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sure

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 5:24 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <a= cm@research.att.com> wrote:

Hi Eric and Mahesh,

<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:bl= ack">=C2=A0

From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 2:02 AM
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Cc: The IESG <= iesg@ietf.org>; Nalini Elkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; ippm-chai= rs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twa= mp-yang-11: (with COMMENT)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 10:59 PM, Mahesh Jethanandan= i <mjethana= ndani@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Eric,
[acm] =E2=80=A6snip=E2=80=A6
>>=C2=A0 7.=C2=A0 Security Considerations
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The YANG module specified in Section 5 this doc= ument defines a schema
>
> Some words about the threat model would be appreciated here. Is the > assumption that the two sender and the reflector are owned by whoever<= br> > runs the network and therefore they are not mounting an attack? If
> not, what is the model?

My co-authors will correct me if I am wrong, but generally, the Control-Cli= ent, Session-Sender, the Server and the Session-Reflector are owned by the = same operator. The attack if any would be launched by a third party trying = to access the test infrastructure in order to disrupt its operation. They could do that by overwriting the c= onfiguration of any of the four logical entities within the model.

Does that help? If so, I can try to phrase something around it in the Secur= ity Considerations section.

=C2=A0

It does. Do you think you could add something=

=C2=A0

-Ekr

[acm]

Of course. FYI =E2=80=93 there was a sug= gestion to use TWAMP across

peering links but ICMP was used instead = (the KISS principle won).

=C2=A0

Something like:=

=C2=A0

Virtually all existing measurement syste= ms using TWAMP are

administrated by the same network operat= or. Attacks on the

measurement infrastructure could be laun= ched by third-parties

to commandeer the packet generation capa= bility, corrupt the

measurements, or other examples of nefar= ious acts.

=C2=A0


Thanks.

>
>

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com=

=C2=A0


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([2601:647:4700:1280:b1be:15a3:4c29:e792]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g12-v6sm4434817pfh.164.2018.06.20.11.49.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Jun 2018 11:49:48 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <152948741624.11831.6942344673743649925.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 11:49:46 -0700 Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <71E77DBC-AD89-4DD3-A9DC-1C43325A975B@gmail.com> References: <152948741624.11831.6942344673743649925.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Suresh Krishnan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:49:52 -0000 Hi Suresh, > On Jun 20, 2018, at 2:36 AM, Suresh Krishnan = wrote: >=20 > Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > It would be good if the yang model can be updated to refer to the = NTPv4 > specification (RFC5905) for the timestamps. It is currently referring = to the > obsolete NTPv3 specification (RFC1305 which is not listed in the = references > section) to describe the timestamp format. >=20 Will update the reference to NTP in the YANG model to NTPv4. The draft = has the updated reference to NTPv4 as you suggest. Thanks. >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Wed Jun 20 12:19:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDF9E13109F; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:19:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 69In3MXTPrZO; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu [18.7.68.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E07101310AB; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:19:32 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074423-837ff70000007876-85-5b2aa8c30dae Received: from mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.39]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 98.B1.30838.3C8AA2B5; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w5KJJU3v006705; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:19:31 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w5KJJPic021158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:19:28 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:19:25 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org" , Nalini Elkins , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180620191925.GK4946@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <152933869439.3647.15290297683322606646.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92DDA6@njmtexg4.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92DDA6@njmtexg4.research.att.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpmleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42IRYrdT1z28Qiva4O55a4u+Q7MZLW4daWC0 mPFnIrPF6h3dbBY9D94xW3w+eYnRgc1jyZKfTB5bZtxi8vj/ZD5LAHMUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0C V0b3AfWCnfwVSxeeZG9gXMfTxcjJISFgInHsy3n2LkYuDiGBxUwS/65dZIFwNjJKnL12lBmk SkjgKpPEzi3cIDaLgKrEq68tLCA2m4CKREP3ZbAaEQEjibl75oA1Mwv0M0m0H28FGsvBISwQ KzFvElgvr4CxxIF905ghFkxhlFj8dgELREJQ4uTMJ2A2s4CWxI1/L5lAepkFpCWW/+MACXMK BEr0/1gBtktUQFlib98h9gmMArOQdM9C0j0LoXsBI/MqRtmU3Crd3MTMnOLUZN3i5MS8vNQi XTO93MwSvdSU0k2M4LB2Ud7B+LLP+xCjAAejEg/vjTCtaCHWxLLiytxDjJIcTEqivPw1QCG+ pPyUyozE4oz4otKc1OJDjBIczEoivGtmA+V4UxIrq1KL8mFS0hwsSuK8OYsYo4UE0hNLUrNT UwtSi2CyMhwcShK8J5YDNQoWpaanVqRl5pQgpJk4OEGG8wANj1wBMry4IDG3ODMdIn+KUVFK nLcQpFkAJJFRmgfXC0o7Etn7a14xigO9IszrA1LFA0xZcN2vgAYzAQ2ubgYbXJKIkJJqYHRr sv33JdKyf/r32V3GE3ab3nu9ze5ExJYJGreLpZa5G18ziilr0n9q1h709oDDlVl+7mvvn+mQ YlXdnuEndMbCdVZz3cVdU7rVPJYkr5tv+f9fVfHxHyUP07f0Kn30W6s6V7gjL1Lq8ibF9CMc q/44PS74WOr4lM3cu+hDxOc7hqv6LlyLCVNiKc5INNRiLipOBACTNOkqFgMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 19:19:35 -0000 Hi Al, On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 08:06:55PM +0000, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote: > Hi Ben, > > Just looking at your first comment for now: > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Perhaps I am confused and/or misreading things, but the descriptions > > of the control-client and session-reflector include discussion of > > 'sid' session identifiers as if they were always used, but the mode > > bitmap includes a separate bit for negotiation of > > 'individual-session-control' for session identifier usage. Is there > > some conflict between this mandatory/negotiable distinction, or are > > they actually talking about different things? > [acm] > > Yes, there is a small amount of confusion, easily > rectified I think. > > All test sessions are assigned Session IDs (SIDs). > Each SID is assigned during the session setup phase of operation. > > All test sessions START and STOP with the those commands, > *unless* the individual-session-control feature has been negotiated: > > [RFC5938] ... describes an OPTIONAL feature for TWAMP. [RFC5357] TWAMP > (and OWAMP) start all previously requested and accepted test sessions > at once. This feature allows the Control-Client to control > individual test sessions on the basis of their Session Identifier > (SID). This feature permits a short-duration TWAMP test to start > (and/or stop) during a longer test. This feature permits a specific > diagnostic test to begin if intermediate results indicate that the > test is warranted, for example. > > Let us know if there is specific text you would like to modify, > to avoid any confusion... Thanks for the explanation. I don't see any need to modify the text; someone who actually pulls the references has a clear picture of what's going on as-is. -Benjamin From nobody Wed Jun 20 12:33:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A08131142 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:33:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iyemqGJ4FPUq for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C53B9131138 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id n5-v6so1492031wmc.5 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:33:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=n5QUUP28BhwW2I35eGG4kiyNQJjG3u274/uW7qEFHBM=; b=I/Equn2uNe0mH8jCE4TXWww2LoOgAcNcOrXI9qEc8+41h8iI+n0ASQgxeBfVRqO+Ya X6naLPJfEowZa8lqkYPHNe17VL3/b2Gl1424ULHhkxxopC4M/bxCvR2r2wc6MlhSK2pS MVLfktmWcG3XJ6EM53tJTDlSoL/Fgi3Wn1+wOyFJoVrVWfbBkTk5/Mw755lz7H4Fbty9 NyrJOVqPwijV+LwrGv3r188sgR2ytHK/7BvX+xMcK2GpbntLfwJuMg0PUOD53TsAUSLZ Uq84cL1MWxPg4BxsJXjifFaNbcQDYpvA5LUbULUBVef6KdkmV4d2O20vtAqmTcYtwENx /hog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=n5QUUP28BhwW2I35eGG4kiyNQJjG3u274/uW7qEFHBM=; b=VxmTqLiCa5utMkblV3Tat3g4RLW6ObxKEHS3xScOxChSUDWyNRk2oTXFvv/ytUC665 KM0q74YTsBG0YW3Zoxp6hAaBWSyDQoG7LvHhYcBGdYtZsk/R7tG5uYHe4D39nnd432tW nAEpUSfVyv2ucAokEKoixJ/zyOvEYSSXnfZZxTH9uJFY+kQ4ugEkSu7Qs/MyknA2zg6m y85DwM4v+wpeTfEu8S5QJJeU4wgjRRyts36zwrG61MnhiHqoMspgqhKZwTFTNPAQpU+s 0hqT0kBsMeoZg6FADkbXy7OaWYaS5Y6DnfmP2KOeqO7EqURZKVehXh5LsQTUnsQl1WC5 8z/g== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E37zARTHKt9L+aQC6gEc7S4XxGXKniUzDrAQiWrMZPiJY7J+AjJ NzEBOD2gxpuQbSKA4CQqJz0Oh665PRSqSaceOF8xGg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKKaD/KpD5rFN2L854sirKnHzSau1yILH0i1P77KLCBGQRVfbDdJ2e113JyJPqhpmqO2QNTjtDy4FGXRE1dWJ9s= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:d70c:: with SMTP id o12-v6mr2520118wmg.71.1529523185014; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:33:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <152936351218.3277.17167068947318886658.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92DE7F@njmtexg4.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92DE7F@njmtexg4.research.att.com> From: Warren Kumari Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:32:28 -0400 Message-ID: To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org, Brian Trammell , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, Nevil Brownlee , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001e6e27056f17de1f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 19:33:16 -0000 --0000000000001e6e27056f17de1f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 6:38 PM MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote: > Hi Warren, > Thanks for your review. > Let's take a look at your comments. > > Co-authors, see Warren's last comment, in particular. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Kumari [mailto:warren@kumari.net] > > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 7:12 PM > ... > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Rich version of this review at: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__mozphab- > > 2Dietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net_D6118&d=3DDwICaQ&c=3DLFYZ- > > > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DG64fdxkDTnWJmF84jgKSBF8S= _wrWq > > gmTfJnCQ7jGiW0&s=3DPr5JlVAobowwNzyTQIF_ut6srvRo-hGsprLnyfGh-WA&e=3D > > > > Thank you for writing this. Note that I'm using a new tool for > > balloting, apologies in advance if it goes Boom! > > Also apologies for the terseness / tone, still getting use to the > > tooling, and not sure what shows up where. > [acm] > > Ok. I'm replying the traditional way, but I'll create a login > (if I can) and try Phabricator, too. > > =E2=80=8BI believe that anyone can create a login on this (Mozilla provided= ) instance. It seems to me like it works well, and I think makes reviews and responding to them friendlier / nicer. Of course, if you prefer mail, this works too... =E2=80=8B > > > > COMMENTS > > S 1. > > > aspects of IP packets can influence its processing during transf= er > > > across the network. > > > > > > In Section 15 of [RFC2330], the notion of a "standard-formed" > > packet > > > is defined. However, the definition was never updated to includ= e > > > IPv6, as the original authors planned. > > > > Nit: This is slightly ambiguous - it is unclear if "As the authors > > intended, it was not updated", or if the authors planned to update it, > > and never did. > [acm] > I see. How about: > s/ original authors planned./ authors originally desired to do./ > =E2=80=8BWFM.=E2=80=8B > > > > > > > S 3. > > > This suggests we devise a metric or suite of metrics that attemp= t > > to > > > determine C. > > > > > > Load balancing over parallel paths is one particular example whe= re > > > such a class C would be more complex to determine in IPPM > > > measurements. Load balancers often use flow identifiers, comput= ed > > as > > > > I think you might want "load balancers and routers" here. Generally a > > load-balancer is used to mean something which chooses a server (or > > cluster of servers) to direct a packet / transaction to. Hashing to > > choose amongst parallel paths is more likely to be a router (yes, the > > terminology gets squishy - a router doing this is in fact load- > > balancing amongst links / paths, but...) > > > > > [acm] Sure, your addition of "and routers" is better, thanks. > =E2=80=8BExcellent!=E2=80=8B > > > > > S 3. > > > fields that are used for the forwarding decision, are not known > when > > > measuring the path as a black-box. Potential assessment scenari= os > > > include the measurement of one of the parallel paths, and the > > > measurement of all available parallel paths that the load balanc= er > > > can use. Knowledge of a load balancer's flow definition > > > (alternatively: its class C specific treatment in terms of heade= r > > > > I realize that RFC2330 also used this term, but it was less jarring > > there (it is also only used once) - I think that you might want to > > clarify that "class C" is used here in a different way to "class C > > addresses". > > > > I don't have any text to suggest though... > [acm] > I do, earlier in the section: > > This suggests we devise a metric or suite of metrics that attempt > to > determine class C (a designation which has no relationship to > address > assignments, of course). > =E2=80=8BOh. Well, there you go then :-) Somehow I'd missed that... =E2=80= =8B > > > > > > S 4. > > > o Its total length as given in the IPv4 header corresponds to t= he > > > size of the IPv4 header plus the size of the payload. > > > > > > o Either the packet possesses sufficient TTL to travel from the > > > Source to the Destination if the TTL is decremented by one at > each > > > hop, or it possesses the maximum TTL of 255. > > > > I'm confused here - why do you need to add the "or 255 bit"? > > > > Are you saying that a IPv4 packet that has a TTL of 255 sent to a > > destination that is 300 hops away is still "standard-formed"? (not > > that that would work anyway!) > [acm] > Yes, because we may not know the number of hops needed to reach Dest. > and if we inspect the packet after it has been generated it may > have the max TTL since it hasn't encountered any decrementing hops. > > > > Surely just saying "Either the packet possesses sufficient TTL to > > travel from the Source to the Destination" is enough? (255, as used by > > some protocols is more than sufficient for their single hop). > > > > This feels like over specifying, leading to confusion. > [acm] > Well, I just checked RFC2330, and this TTL bullet is a direct quote. > Confusion about this has been limited, AFAICT. > =E2=80=8BOkey dokey.=E2=80=8B > > > > > > > S 4. > > > the packet, and the headers appear in the standard-conforming > > > order (Next Header). > > > > > > o All parameters used in the header and Extension Headers are > found > > > in the IANA Registry of Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6) > > > Parameters, partly specified in [IANA-6P]. > > > > I'm confused again -- this says that all parameters must be in the > > "IANA Registry of Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6) > > Parameters". Ok, cool. > > But which part of that registry isn't specified by > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > > 3A__www.iana.org_assignments_ipv6-2Dparameters_ipv6-2Dparameters.xhtml- > > 3F&d=3DDwICaQ&c=3DLFYZ- > > > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DG64fdxkDTnWJmF84jgKSBF8S= _wrWq > > gmTfJnCQ7jGiW0&s=3DgtOpgKho-LZA3yORp0NrSwzxLVUdL66yFsnsfj3pYmg&e=3D > > > > (why the "partly")? > > > [acm] > I don't recollect why we said "partly" there. > But this is recently edited text (Last Call comments, I think) > and we should be able to resurrect the rationale... > =E2=80=8BThat would be nice -- if there is a problem with the registry, it = seems that we can / should fix it. I'm also not quite sure how I'd determine if I'm in compliance with the above. Anyway, all my comments were just comments, thanks for addressing them. W=E2=80=8B > > Al > > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf --0000000000001e6e27056f17de1f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tu= e, Jun 19, 2018 at 6:38 PM MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acm@research.att.com> wrote:
Hi Warren,
Thanks for your review.
Let's take a look at your comments.

Co-authors, see Warren's last comment, in particular.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Kumari [mailto:warren@kumari.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 7:12 PM
...
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> Rich version of this review at:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.co= m/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__mozphab-
> 2Dietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net_D6118&d=3DDwICaQ&c=3DLFYZ-
> o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DG64fdxkDTnWJm= F84jgKSBF8S_wrWq
> gmTfJnCQ7jGiW0&s=3DPr5JlVAobowwNzyTQIF_ut6srvRo-hGsprLnyfGh-WA&= ;e=3D
>
> Thank you for writing this. Note that I'm using a new tool for
> balloting, apologies in advance if it goes Boom!
> Also apologies for the terseness / tone, still getting use to the
> tooling, and not sure what shows up where.
[acm]

Ok. I'm replying the traditional way, but I'll create a login
(if I can) and try Phabricator, too.


=E2=80=8BI believe that anyone can create a= login on this (Mozilla provided) instance.=C2=A0
It seems to me like it wo= rks well, and I think makes reviews and responding to them friendlier / nic= er.

Of course, if you prefer mail, this works too... =E2=80=8B
=C2=A0
>
> COMMENTS
> S 1.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 aspects of IP packets can influence its proce= ssing during transfer
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 across the network.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In Section 15 of [RFC2330], the notion of a &= quot;standard-formed"
> packet
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is defined.=C2=A0 However, the definition was= never updated to include
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPv6, as the original authors planned.
>
> Nit: This is slightly ambiguous - it is unclear if "As the author= s
> intended, it was not updated", or if the authors planned to updat= e it,
> and never did.
[acm]
I see. How about:
s/ original authors planned./ authors originally desired to do./

=E2=80=8BWFM.=E2=80=8B

=C2=A0

>
>
> S 3.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This suggests we devise a metric or suite of = metrics that attempt
> to
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 determine C.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Load balancing over parallel paths is one par= ticular example where
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 such a class C would be more complex to deter= mine in IPPM
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 measurements.=C2=A0 Load balancers often use = flow identifiers, computed
> as
>
> I think you might want "load balancers and routers" here. Ge= nerally a
> load-balancer is used to mean something which chooses a server (or
> cluster of servers) to direct a packet / transaction to. Hashing to > choose amongst parallel paths is more likely to be a router (yes, the<= br> > terminology gets squishy - a router doing this is in fact load-
> balancing amongst links / paths, but...)
>
>
[acm] Sure, your addition of "and routers" is better, thanks.
=

=E2=80=8BExcellent!=E2=80=8B

=C2=A0

>
> S 3.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 fields that are used for the forwarding decis= ion, are not known when
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 measuring the path as a black-box.=C2=A0 Pote= ntial assessment scenarios
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 include the measurement of one of the paralle= l paths, and the
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 measurement of all available parallel paths t= hat the load balancer
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 can use.=C2=A0 Knowledge of a load balancer&#= 39;s flow definition
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (alternatively: its class C specific treatmen= t in terms of header
>
> I realize that RFC2330 also used this term, but it was less jarring > there (it is also only used once)=C2=A0 - I think that you might want = to
> clarify that "class C" is used here in a different way to &q= uot;class C
> addresses".
>
> I don't have any text to suggest though...
[acm]
I do, earlier in the section:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This suggests we devise a metric or suite of me= trics that attempt to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 determine class C (a designation which has no r= elationship to address
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 assignments, of course).
<= br>
=E2=80=8BOh. Well, there you go then :-) Somehow I'd missed th= at... =E2=80=8B

=C2=A0
>
>
> S 4.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Its total length as given in the IPv4= header corresponds to the
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0size of the IPv4 header plus the= size of the payload.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Either the packet possesses sufficien= t TTL to travel from the
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Source to the Destination if the= TTL is decremented by one at each
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hop, or it possesses the maximum= TTL of 255.
>
> I'm confused here - why do you need to add the "or 255 bit&qu= ot;?
>
> Are you saying that a IPv4 packet that has a TTL of 255 sent to a
> destination that is 300 hops away is still "standard-formed"= ? (not
> that that would work anyway!)
[acm]
Yes, because we may not know the number of hops needed to reach Dest.
and if we inspect the packet after it has been generated it may
have the max TTL since it hasn't encountered any decrementing hops. >
> Surely just saying "Either the packet possesses sufficient TTL to=
> travel from the Source to the Destination" is enough? (255, as us= ed by
> some protocols is more than sufficient for their single hop).
>
> This feels like over specifying, leading to confusion.
[acm]
Well, I just checked RFC2330, and this TTL bullet is a direct quote.
Confusion about this has been limited, AFAICT.

=E2=80=8BOkey dokey.=E2=80=8B

=C2=A0

>
>
> S 4.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the packet, and the headers appe= ar in the standard-conforming
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0order (Next Header).
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 All parameters used in the header and= Extension Headers are found
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in the IANA Registry of Internet= Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Parameters, partly specified in = [IANA-6P].
>
> I'm confused again -- this says that all parameters must be in the=
> "IANA Registry of Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)
> Parameters". Ok, cool.
> But which part of that registry isn't specified by
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u= =3Dhttps-
> 3A__www.iana.org_assignments_ipv6-2Dparameters_ipv6-2Dparameters.xhtml= -
> 3F&d=3DDwICaQ&c=3DLFYZ-
> o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DG64fdxkDTnWJm= F84jgKSBF8S_wrWq
> gmTfJnCQ7jGiW0&s=3DgtOpgKho-LZA3yORp0NrSwzxLVUdL66yFsnsfj3pYmg&= ;e=3D
>
> (why the "partly")?
>
[acm]
I don't recollect why we said "partly" there.
But this is recently edited text (Last Call comments, I think)
and we should be able to resurrect the rationale...
=E2=80=8BThat would be nice -- if there is a problem with the regis= try, it seems that we can / should fix it. I'm also not quite sure how = I'd determine if I'm in compliance with the above.

Anyway, al= l my comments were just comments, thanks for addressing them.
W=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0

Al



--
I don't t= hink the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the firs= t place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later exp= ressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pai= r of pants.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf
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([2601:647:4700:1280:b1be:15a3:4c29:e792]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r86-v6sm5877482pfd.154.2018.06.20.12.39.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <1EF72E31-8D35-4CB8-BEC7-692E1B0C72B6@qti.qualcomm.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:39:54 -0700 Cc: gen-art@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang.all@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <152946732769.32402.15646758857363676488@ietfa.amsl.com> <1EF72E31-8D35-4CB8-BEC7-692E1B0C72B6@qti.qualcomm.com> To: Pete Resnick X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 19:39:59 -0000 Hi Pete, Trimming it down even more. > On Jun 20, 2018, at 5:18 AM, Pete Resnick = wrote: >=20 > Hi Mahesh, >=20 > Trimming a bit: >=20 > On 20 Jun 2018, at 0:36, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: >=20 >=20 >>> 3.1 - s/The test session name that MUST be identical/The test = session name, >>> which MUST be identical (Unless you mean something really weird that = I don't >>> think you mean. If you don't see the difference, then trust me, you = mean >>> "which", not "that=E2=80=9D.) >>=20 >> You mean in Section 3.3. >=20 > Yes, sorry about that. Section 3.1 has a similar problem: >=20 > s/The test session name that uniquely identifies/The test session = name, which uniquely identifies >=20 > and I forgot to note that one. >=20 >> How about s/The test session name that MUST be identical with the/The = test session name MUST be identical to the/? >=20 > That's not quite right. You are giving a list of fields (as you say, = "Primary configuration fields include:"), so you don't want something in = that list that is a rule. The field is "the test session name", and that = field MUST be identical to the client name. What we are trying to say is that =E2=80=9Cthe test session name=E2=80=9D = on the Session-Sender side must correspond to =E2=80=9Cthe test session = name=E2=80=9D on the Control-Client side (not the client's name). >=20 > When you say, "the test session name that MUST be identical with...", = it sounds like there is more than one test session name, That is not what we are trying to say. Each test session has only one = name. And that is why I reworded it say =E2=80=9Cthe test session name = MUST be identical to the=E2=80=9D, hopefully implying that there is only = one name. > and you're talking about the one that MUST be identical with the = client name. What we are trying to say is that every test session in the = Session-Sender has a corresponding test session on the Control-Client. = The name of the test session on the Session-Sender side has to match the = name of the test session on the Control-Client. > Similarly with the above, it sounds like there's one test session name = which uniquely identifies it, and one that doesn't uniquely identify it. = That's not what you mean. As I say above, the test sessions on either side have only one name. Having said all that, if you feel that your suggested edit is better, we = can go with that. I just feel my suggested edit is crisper.=20 Thanks. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Wed Jun 20 14:31:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A0BB130E3A; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:31:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6Qu78u7bYUjS; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3133D130E34; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0048589.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0048589.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w5KLR1g6013778; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:30:59 -0400 Received: from tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (sbcsmtp3.sbc.com [144.160.112.28]) by m0048589.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 2jqx35s8xr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:30:59 -0400 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5KLUv97109590; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 16:30:57 -0500 Received: from zlp30493.vci.att.com (zlp30493.vci.att.com [135.46.181.176]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5KLUmJV109298; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 16:30:48 -0500 Received: from zlp30493.vci.att.com (zlp30493.vci.att.com [127.0.0.1]) by zlp30493.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 562854081D12; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:30:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (unknown [135.41.1.46]) by zlp30493.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 247A84000499; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:30:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5KLUlON020747; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 16:30:47 -0500 Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (mail-green.research.att.com [135.207.255.15]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5KLUcwc019873; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 16:30:39 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32932E260B; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:29:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:30:23 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Warren Kumari CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org" , Brian Trammell , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , Nevil Brownlee , IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUB1m9gMDiGrvwOku4b/J6pUrGkaRoIjbQgAGs/QD//9vAgA== Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:30:37 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EAA6@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152936351218.3277.17167068947318886658.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92DE7F@njmtexg4.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.201.95.59] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EAA6njmtexg4researc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-20_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806200231 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:31:10 -0000 --_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EAA6njmtexg4researc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgV2FycmVuLA0KDQouLi4NCj4gUyAzLg0KPiA+ICAgICAgZmllbGRzIHRoYXQgYXJlIHVzZWQg Zm9yIHRoZSBmb3J3YXJkaW5nIGRlY2lzaW9uLCBhcmUgbm90IGtub3duIHdoZW4NCj4gPiAgICAg IG1lYXN1cmluZyB0aGUgcGF0aCBhcyBhIGJsYWNrLWJveC4gIFBvdGVudGlhbCBhc3Nlc3NtZW50 IHNjZW5hcmlvcw0KPiA+ICAgICAgaW5jbHVkZSB0aGUgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnQgb2Ygb25lIG9mIHRo ZSBwYXJhbGxlbCBwYXRocywgYW5kIHRoZQ0KPiA+ICAgICAgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnQgb2YgYWxsIGF2 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([2601:647:4700:1280:b1be:15a3:4c29:e792]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e16-v6sm5025990pfn.46.2018.06.20.18.55.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:55:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <3A3BEE09-40B0-4006-A404-6933081C9A19@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_606602CC-F90B-4F44-AF3B-F223056B7296" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:55:23 -0700 In-Reply-To: <152933869439.3647.15290297683322606646.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org To: Benjamin Kaduk References: <152933869439.3647.15290297683322606646.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 01:55:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_606602CC-F90B-4F44-AF3B-F223056B7296 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Ben, > On Jun 18, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: >=20 > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Perhaps I am confused and/or misreading things, but the descriptions > of the control-client and session-reflector include discussion of > 'sid' session identifiers as if they were always used, but the mode > bitmap includes a separate bit for negotiation of > 'individual-session-control' for session identifier usage. Is there > some conflict between this mandatory/negotiable distinction, or are > they actually talking about different things? I believe Al has responded on this issue already. >=20 > Comments below in document order, but please pay special note to the > (potential) need for global uniqueness of key-ids, the PBKDF2 > iteration count, and the list of sensitive nodes to call out in the > security considerations. >=20 >=20 > Section 3.1 >=20 > o Authentication and encryption attributes such as KeyID, Token and > the Client Initialization Vector (Client-IV); see also the last > paragraph of Section 6 in OWAMP [RFC4656] and Randomness > Requirements for Security [RFC4086]. >=20 > I'm confused about what the RFC4656 reference is intended to call > out -- the reliance on AES to be resistant to chosen plaintext, or > the randomly generated challenge from the server, or the existential > forgeries? The reference should have been to Section 3.1 of RFC4656. >=20 > o Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the = test > starting time, which performance metric is to be used Registry = for > Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry], or whether > the test should be repeated. >=20 > Is there something missing before or around "Registry for > Performance Metrics"? The current text is hard to read. Agree. How about this: OLD Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the test starting time, which performance metric is to be used Registry for Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry = ], or whether the test should be repeated. NEW Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the test starting time, which performance metric is to be used, as defined = in Registry for Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry = ], or whether the test should be repeated. >=20 > Section 3.4 >=20 > Each Session-Reflector is associated with zero or more TWAMP-Test > sessions. For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter = which > determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have = been > received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2) can be configured. >=20 > nit: I think this would be easier to read if "which > determines...received" was offset by commas or parentheses. How about this: OLD For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section=C2=A04.2 = ) can be configured. NEW For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter can be = configured, which determines whether to discontinue the session, if no packets have = been received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section=C2=A04.2 = ). >=20 > Read-only access to other data model parameters, such as the Sender > IP address is foreseen. Each test session can be uniquely = identified > by the 4-tuple mentioned in Section 3.2. >=20 > Nit: comma after "Sender IP address=E2=80=9D. Ok. >=20 > Section 4.1 >=20 > [...] Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the > mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned > integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent integers > increase by one. >=20 > I thought I remembered some discussion about this text being unclear > and removing "and subsequent integers increase by one" being > proposed. But I don't see that discussion in an obvious place, so > maybe it was on a different document. You do have a good memory. It was for this document. See the discussion = on the other thread with Pete, where this has come up and edits = proposed. >=20 > Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit position > combinations when necessary, such as when referring to the extended > [...] >=20 > Maybe "may set multiple bits independently" would be more clear? > But it seems that some bit combinations don't make any sense, like > unauthenticated+authenticated -- is there need for more expository > text here? How about: OLD: Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit position combinations when necessary, such as when referring to the extended TWAMP features in [RFC5618 ], = [RFC5938 ], [RFC6038 = ], and [RFC7717 = ]. If the Control-Client cannot determine an acceptable Mode, it MUST respond with zero Mode bits set in the Set-up Response message, indicating it will not continue with the control connection. NEW: Note that the list of preferred Modes may set multiple bit position independently, such as when referring to the extended TWAMP features in [RFC5618 ], = [RFC5938 ], [RFC6038 = ], and [RFC7717 = ]. If the Control-Client cannot determine an acceptable Mode, or when the=20= bit combinations do not make sense, e.g. both authenticated and=20 unauthenticated bit set, it MUST respond with zero Mode bits set=20 in the Set-up Response message, indicating it will not continue with=20= the control connection. >=20 > [...] The secret-key is the shared secret, a sequence > of octets of arbitrary length whose interpretation is unspecified. > The key-id and secret-key encoding SHOULD follow Section 9.4 of YANG > [RFC7950]. [...] >=20 > Section 9.4 of YANG is for (printable) strings, but the secret-key > is binary -- should this get a Section 9.8 reference as well? > I'm also not sure that leaving it as "arbitrary length" > is great -- if we're using it to derive 16-byte AES keys and 32-byte > HMAC-SHA1 keys, we could at least say "SHOULD contain at least 128 > bits of entropy=E2=80=9D. This was my bad. I changed the text for the secret-key from string to = binary in the YANG model, at the behest of Tom Petch, but forgot to = update this text. I can update the reference to Section 9.8 of RFC7950. = Will add text around the 128 bits of entropy. >=20 > Section 4.2 >=20 > [...] The Server, being prepared to conduct > sessions with more than one Control-Client, uses KeyIDs to choose = the > appropriate secret-key; a Control-Client would typically have > different secret keys for different Servers. key-id tells the Server > which shared-secret the Control-Client wishes to use for > authentication or encryption. >=20 > Does this imply a global uniqueness requirement for key-ids? If so, > that should be called out more clearly. Section 4.1 says. Do you think this is clear enough? Both the Server and the Control-Client use the same mappings from KeyIDs to shared secrets (key-id and secret-key in Figure 3, respectively) >=20 > Section 4.3 >=20 > | name | > | ctrl-connection-name {ro} | > | fill-mode | > | number-of-packets | > | state {ro} | > | sent-packets {ro} | > | rcv-packets {ro} | > | last-sent-seq {ro} | > | last-rcv-seq {ro} | > +---------------------------+ >=20 > nit: should the "{ro}" on "state" be right-aligned with the others? Ok.=20 >=20 > Is there any privacy concern about exposing the parent-connection > 4-tuple? As discussed in the other thread, the test is run between the four = logical entities within the same provider network. That combined with = the security of the session, and use of access control (NACM) can limit = how much is exposed and what they can do with that information. >=20 > Section 5.2 >=20 > In the 'count' leaf, a default value of 10 (corresponding to an > iteration count of 2^10 =3D=3D 1024 for PBKDF2) is described. This > seems quite low for a PBKDF2 iteration count, by modern standards. > In "normal" cryptographic protocols we would generally be using a > default closer to 32768 =3D=3D 2^15 (which I see is the default *max* > count value, and there is additional discussion of the issue in the > leaf description for that leaf). Perhaps one could make an argument > that this is just for test setups and the keys and data exchanged > are "not very valuable", but there is always risk of key sharing > across protocols, and my preference is to present the strong > defaults and give users the option to reduce where appropriate. > What are the authors' thoughts here? We can bump the default for =E2=80=98count to be 15, and the default for = =E2=80=98max-count-exponent=E2=80=99 to 20. >=20 > Section 7 >=20 > There are probably more nodes that can get called out as > particularly vulnerable, such as the count and max-count nodes that > can cause a long time to be spent on PBKDF2 iterations, the dscp > markings, the mode bitmask, etc. The question of more nodes being identified from a vulnerability = perspective has been called out on the other thread. We can use the = above discussion, and the point you make below to call out =E2=80=98count=E2= =80=99 and =E2=80=98max-count-exponent=E2=80=99. What do you see as = issue with different DSCP markings or with mode bit mask? >=20 > Appendix A >=20 > The elements appear to be using base64-encoded values. > Where is it specified that such encoding is used for the binary > values? (I assume this is just my ignorance of a generic standard, > so please enlighten me!) RFC 7950 says in section 9.8.2 that: Binary values are encoded with the base64 encoding scheme (see Section=C2=A04 in [RFC4648] = ). >=20 > Am I reading it right that the 30 means 2^30 (one > billion) PBKDF2 iterations? Has this actually been run in practice? > It seems like it would be painfully slow. It was setup as an example to show how a test session could be = configured. We can reduce the value of count to 15. Thanks. >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_606602CC-F90B-4F44-AF3B-F223056B7296 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Ben,

On Jun 18, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Benjamin Kaduk = <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position = for
draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line = intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To = and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory = paragraph, however.)


Please = refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htmlfor more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT = positions.


The document, = along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/



---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
COMMENT:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

Perhaps I am confused and/or = misreading things, but the descriptions
of the = control-client and session-reflector include discussion of
'sid' session identifiers as if they were always used, but = the mode
bitmap includes a separate bit for negotiation = of
'individual-session-control' for session identifier = usage.  Is there
some conflict between this = mandatory/negotiable distinction, or are
they actually = talking about different things?

I believe = Al has responded on this issue already.


NEW
      Information pertaining to the test packet =
stream, such as the test
      starting time, which performance metric is to be used, as defined =
in Registry =
for
      =
Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry], =
or whether
      the test should be repeated.



Section 3.4

  Each Session-Reflector is = associated with zero or more TWAMP-Test
=   sessions.  For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout = parameter which
  determines whether to = discontinue the session if no packets have been
=   received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2) can be = configured.

nit: I think this would be = easier to read if "which
determines...received" was offset = by commas or parentheses.

How about this:

OLD
   For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which
   determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been
   received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2) can be configured.


NEW
   For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter can be =
configured, which
   determines whether to discontinue the session, if no packets have =
been
   received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2).




  Read-only access to other data = model parameters, such as the Sender
  IP = address is foreseen.  Each test session can be uniquely = identified
  by the 4-tuple mentioned in = Section 3.2.

Nit: comma after "Sender IP = address=E2=80=9D.

Ok.


Section 4.1

  [...] Specifically, = mode-preference-chain lists the
  mode and its = corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned
=   integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent = integers
  increase by one.

I thought I remembered some discussion about this text being = unclear
and removing "and subsequent integers increase by = one" being
proposed.  But I don't see that discussion = in an obvious place, so
maybe it was on a different = document.

You do have a good memory. It was for this document. = See the discussion on the other thread with Pete, where this has come up = and edits proposed.


=   Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit = position
  combinations when necessary, such as = when referring to the extended
  [...]

Maybe "may set multiple bits independently" = would be more clear?
But it seems that some bit = combinations don't make any sense, like
unauthenticated+authenticated -- is there need for more = expository
text here?

How about:

OLD:
   Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit position
   combinations when necessary, such as when referring to the extended
   TWAMP features in [RFC5618], [RFC5938], [RFC6038], and [RFC7717].  If
   the =
Control-Client cannot determine an acceptable Mode, it MUST
   respond with zero Mode bits set in the Set-up Response message,
   indicating it will not continue with the control =
connection.



NEW:
   Note that the list of preferred Modes may set multiple bit =
position
   independently, such as when referring to the extended
   TWAMP features in [RFC5618], [RFC5938], [RFC6038], and [RFC7717].  If
   the =
Control-Client cannot determine an acceptable Mode, or when =
the 
   bit =
combinations do not make sense, e.g. both authenticated =
and 
   =
unauthenticated bit =
set, it MUST respond with zero Mode bits set 
   in the Set-up Response message, indicating it will not continue =
with 
   the control =
connection.


  [...] The secret-key is the = shared secret, a sequence
  of octets of = arbitrary length whose interpretation is unspecified.
=   The key-id and secret-key encoding SHOULD follow Section 9.4 = of YANG
  [RFC7950]. [...]

Section 9.4 of YANG is for (printable) strings, but the = secret-key
is binary -- should this get a Section 9.8 = reference as well?
I'm also not sure that leaving it as = "arbitrary length"
is great -- if we're using it to derive = 16-byte AES keys and 32-byte
HMAC-SHA1 keys, we could at = least say "SHOULD contain at least 128
bits of = entropy=E2=80=9D.

This was my bad. I changed the text for the secret-key = from string to binary in the YANG model, at the behest of Tom Petch, but = forgot to update this text. I can update the reference to Section 9.8 of = RFC7950. Will add text around the 128 bits of entropy.


Section 4.2

=   [...] The Server, being prepared to conduct
=   sessions with more than one Control-Client, uses KeyIDs to = choose the
  appropriate secret-key; a = Control-Client would typically have
  different = secret keys for different Servers. key-id tells the Server
=   which shared-secret the Control-Client wishes to use for
  authentication or encryption.

Does this imply a global uniqueness requirement for key-ids? =  If so,
that should be called out more clearly.

Section = 4.1 says. Do you think this is clear enough?

   Both the =
Server and
   the Control-Client use the same mappings from KeyIDs to shared
   secrets (key-id and secret-key in Figure 3, respectively)


Section 4.3

=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  | name =             &n= bsp;        |
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  | ctrl-connection-name {ro} |
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  | fill-mode =             &n= bsp;   |
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  | number-of-packets =         |
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  | state {ro} =             &n= bsp;  |
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  | sent-packets =         {ro} |
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  | rcv-packets =          {ro} |
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  | last-sent-seq =        {ro} |
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  | last-rcv-seq =         {ro} |
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  +---------------------------+

nit: should the "{ro}" on "state" be right-aligned with the = others?

Ok. 


Is= there any privacy concern about exposing the parent-connection
4-tuple?

As discussed in the other thread, the test is run = between the four logical entities within the same provider network. That = combined with the security of the session, and use of access control = (NACM) can limit how much is exposed and what they can do with that = information.


Section 5.2

In the 'count' leaf, a default value of 10 = (corresponding to an
iteration count of 2^10 =3D=3D 1024 = for PBKDF2) is described.  This
seems quite low for a = PBKDF2 iteration count, by modern standards.
In "normal" = cryptographic protocols we would generally be using a
default closer to 32768 =3D=3D 2^15 (which I see is the = default *max*
count value, and there is additional = discussion of the issue in the
leaf description for that = leaf).  Perhaps one could make an argument
that this = is just for test setups and the keys and data exchanged
are = "not very valuable", but there is always risk of key sharing
across protocols, and my preference is to present the = strong
defaults and give users the option to reduce where = appropriate.
What are the authors' thoughts here?

We can = bump the default for =E2=80=98count to be 15, and the default for = =E2=80=98max-count-exponent=E2=80=99 to 20.


Section 7

There = are probably more nodes that can get called out as
particularly vulnerable, such as the count and max-count = nodes that
can cause a long time to be spent on PBKDF2 = iterations, the dscp
markings, the mode bitmask, etc.

The = question of more nodes being identified from a vulnerability perspective = has been called out on the other thread. We can use the above = discussion, and the point you make below to call out =E2=80=98count=E2=80=99= and =E2=80=98max-count-exponent=E2=80=99. What do you see as issue with = different DSCP markings or with mode bit mask?


Appendix A

The = <secret-key> elements appear to be using base64-encoded values.
Where is it specified that such encoding is used for the = binary
values?  (I assume this is just my ignorance = of a generic standard,
so please enlighten me!)

RFC 7950 says in section 9.8.2 that:

   Binary values are encoded with the base64 encoding scheme (see
   Section 4 in [RFC4648]).



Am I reading it right that the = <count>30</count> means 2^30 (one
billion) = PBKDF2 iterations?  Has this actually been run in practice?
It seems like it would be painfully slow.

It was = setup as an example to show how a test session could be configured. We = can reduce the value of count to 15.

Thanks.




Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

= --Apple-Mail=_606602CC-F90B-4F44-AF3B-F223056B7296-- From nobody Wed Jun 20 19:24:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B25130E62; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 19:24:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org, Brian Trammell , Nevil Brownlee , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152954785001.28485.9792043846908675425.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 19:24:10 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 02:24:11 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm glad to see that the "class C" potential confusion is already being addressed. Even having seen that previous discussion, I was still struck by how my mind jumped to "address class" when reading it. The Abstract claims that this document " deprecates the definition of minimum standard-formed packet", but the body text refers only to a "minimal IP packet". A couple of nits: Section 4 Two mechanisms require some discussion in the context of standard- formed packets, namely IPv6 over Low-Power Wireless Area Networks (6LowPAN, [RFC4494]) and Robust Header Compression (ROHC, [RFC3095]). IPv6 over Low-Power Wireless Area Networks (6LowPAN), as defined in [RFC4494] and updated by [RFC6282] with header compression and [RFC6775] with neighbor discovery optimizations proposes solutions for using IPv6 in resource-constrained environments. Please put a comma before "proposes" Maybe I should leave this one for the RFC Editor, but this document uses "exemplary" twice when I think "example" is more appropriate -- to me, "exemplary" means something like "best in class" and specifically has a positive connotation, whereas these usages are for things that have ambivalent or negative connotations. From nobody Wed Jun 20 21:41:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C581311C7; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:41:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152955610162.28620.13249468338471662781.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:41:41 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 04:41:42 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the work and thought that everyone involved in this document spent. I find the model well described and easy to understand. I agree with Ben's comments about including more information about the privacy and security properties of specific entities in the module. See https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines for specific guidance. Since this conflicts with normative language in RFC 6087 §3.4 (and 6087bis §3.7), it is a blocking defect that needs to be remedied prior to publication. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I applaud the use of UML in this document. I believe you need to include a reference to ISO/IEC 19501:2005 (or the OMG equivalent); and, since the diagrams appear to be normative, this reference probably needs to be normative. It may be helpful (but less necessary) to also include a brief key to the symbols used by this document, for those readers who may not be familiar with UML notation. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §4.1: > Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the > mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned > integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent integers > increase by one. I think I know what this is trying to say, but it doesn't really say it. Subsequent integers increase by one, by the definition of "integer," so I don't think we need to reiterate that behavior here. Perhaps: "with zero as the highest priority, and 65535 as the lowest." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Figure 6: > +----=--------------+ > | session-reflector | > +-------------------+ > | admin-state | > | refwait | > +-------------------+ Nit: the top line appears to have had an "=" character sneak in. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 81: > +--ro reflector-udp-port inet:port-numbe >r > +--ro parent-connection-client-ip? inet:ip-address > +--ro parent-connection-client-tcp-port? inet:port-numbe >r > +--ro parent-connection-server-ip? inet:ip-address > +--ro parent-connection-server-tcp-port? inet:port-numbe >r Wrapping the final character of the word "number" is probably not what you want to happen here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 34: The configured (or auto-allocated) value is advertized in the Sender Port field of the Nit: "advertised" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 35: > leaf timeout { > type uint64; > units seconds; > default 2; > description > "The length of time (in seconds) that the > Session-Reflector should continue to respond to > packets belonging to this TWAMP-Test session after > a Stop-Sessions TWAMP-Control message has been > received. > > This value will be placed in the Timeout field of > the Request-TW-Session message."; > reference > "RFC 5357: TWAMP, Section 3.8"; > } This reference (Section 3.8 "Stop-Sessions") doesn't seem right. Perhaps section 3.5 was intended? Possibly even section 3.5 of RFC 4656 would be more appropriate. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 36: > type union { > type uint32 { > range 0..4294967294; > } > type enumeration { > enum forever { > description > "Indicates that the test session SHALL be > repeated *forever* using the information in > repeat-interval parameter, and SHALL NOT > decrement the value."; > } > } If I had to guess here, the intention is to reserve the value 4294967295 for "forever," but the model doesn't appear to do that. The preceding definition defines "forever" as "0", which would appear to conflict with a repeat value of 0. See RFC 7950 §9.6.4.2: > If a value is not specified, then one will be automatically assigned. > If the "enum" substatement is the first one defined, the assigned > value is zero (0); otherwise, the assigned value is one greater than > the current highest enum value (i.e., the highest enum value, > implicit or explicit, prior to the current "enum" substatement in the > parent "type" statement). I think this should be: type enumeration { enum forever { value 4294967295; description "Indicates that the test session SHALL be repeated *forever* using the information in repeat-interval parameter, and SHALL NOT decrement the value."; } --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The examples include the address "192.68.0.2" in several places. Please change this to an address in one of the RFC 5737 ranges (e.g., 192.0.2.2). 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(I assume this is just my ignorance of a generic standard, > so please enlighten me!) RFC7950 YANG 1.1 9.8.2. Lexical Representation Binary values are encoded with the base64 encoding scheme (see Section 4 in [RFC4648]). Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Kaduk" To: "The IESG" Cc: ; ; Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 5:18 PM > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Perhaps I am confused and/or misreading things, but the descriptions > of the control-client and session-reflector include discussion of > 'sid' session identifiers as if they were always used, but the mode > bitmap includes a separate bit for negotiation of > 'individual-session-control' for session identifier usage. Is there > some conflict between this mandatory/negotiable distinction, or are > they actually talking about different things? > > Comments below in document order, but please pay special note to the > (potential) need for global uniqueness of key-ids, the PBKDF2 > iteration count, and the list of sensitive nodes to call out in the > security considerations. > > > Section 3.1 > > o Authentication and encryption attributes such as KeyID, Token and > the Client Initialization Vector (Client-IV); see also the last > paragraph of Section 6 in OWAMP [RFC4656] and Randomness > Requirements for Security [RFC4086]. > > I'm confused about what the RFC4656 reference is intended to call > out -- the reliance on AES to be resistant to chosen plaintext, or > the randomly generated challenge from the server, or the existential > forgeries? > > o Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the test > starting time, which performance metric is to be used Registry for > Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry], or whether > the test should be repeated. > > Is there something missing before or around "Registry for > Performance Metrics"? The current text is hard to read. > > Section 3.4 > > Each Session-Reflector is associated with zero or more TWAMP-Test > sessions. For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which > determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been > received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2) can be configured. > > nit: I think this would be easier to read if "which > determines...received" was offset by commas or parentheses. > > Read-only access to other data model parameters, such as the Sender > IP address is foreseen. Each test session can be uniquely identified > by the 4-tuple mentioned in Section 3.2. > > Nit: comma after "Sender IP address". > > Section 4.1 > > [...] Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the > mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned > integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent integers > increase by one. > > I thought I remembered some discussion about this text being unclear > and removing "and subsequent integers increase by one" being > proposed. But I don't see that discussion in an obvious place, so > maybe it was on a different document. > > Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit position > combinations when necessary, such as when referring to the extended > [...] > > Maybe "may set multiple bits independently" would be more clear? > But it seems that some bit combinations don't make any sense, like > unauthenticated+authenticated -- is there need for more expository > text here? > > [...] The secret-key is the shared secret, a sequence > of octets of arbitrary length whose interpretation is unspecified. > The key-id and secret-key encoding SHOULD follow Section 9.4 of YANG > [RFC7950]. [...] > > Section 9.4 of YANG is for (printable) strings, but the secret-key > is binary -- should this get a Section 9.8 reference as well? > I'm also not sure that leaving it as "arbitrary length" > is great -- if we're using it to derive 16-byte AES keys and 32-byte > HMAC-SHA1 keys, we could at least say "SHOULD contain at least 128 > bits of entropy". > > Section 4.2 > > [...] The Server, being prepared to conduct > sessions with more than one Control-Client, uses KeyIDs to choose the > appropriate secret-key; a Control-Client would typically have > different secret keys for different Servers. key-id tells the Server > which shared-secret the Control-Client wishes to use for > authentication or encryption. > > Does this imply a global uniqueness requirement for key-ids? If so, > that should be called out more clearly. > > Section 4.3 > > | name | > | ctrl-connection-name {ro} | > | fill-mode | > | number-of-packets | > | state {ro} | > | sent-packets {ro} | > | rcv-packets {ro} | > | last-sent-seq {ro} | > | last-rcv-seq {ro} | > +---------------------------+ > > nit: should the "{ro}" on "state" be right-aligned with the others? > > Is there any privacy concern about exposing the parent-connection > 4-tuple? > > Section 5.2 > > In the 'count' leaf, a default value of 10 (corresponding to an > iteration count of 2^10 == 1024 for PBKDF2) is described. This > seems quite low for a PBKDF2 iteration count, by modern standards. > In "normal" cryptographic protocols we would generally be using a > default closer to 32768 == 2^15 (which I see is the default *max* > count value, and there is additional discussion of the issue in the > leaf description for that leaf). Perhaps one could make an argument > that this is just for test setups and the keys and data exchanged > are "not very valuable", but there is always risk of key sharing > across protocols, and my preference is to present the strong > defaults and give users the option to reduce where appropriate. > What are the authors' thoughts here? > > Section 7 > > There are probably more nodes that can get called out as > particularly vulnerable, such as the count and max-count nodes that > can cause a long time to be spent on PBKDF2 iterations, the dscp > markings, the mode bitmask, etc. > > Appendix A > > The elements appear to be using base64-encoded values. > Where is it specified that such encoding is used for the binary > values? (I assume this is just my ignorance of a generic standard, > so please enlighten me!) RFC7950 YANG 1.1 9.8.2. Lexical Representation Binary values are encoded with the base64 encoding scheme (see Section 4 in [RFC4648]). > Am I reading it right that the 30 means 2^30 (one > billion) PBKDF2 iterations? Has this actually been run in practice? > It seems like it would be painfully slow. > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From nobody Thu Jun 21 05:42:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12D8F130DCE; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 05:42:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Suresh Krishnan To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org, Brian Trammell , Nevil Brownlee , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152958494006.31485.7887719162606975251.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 05:42:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 12:42:21 -0000 Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Section 4 Since this behavior is clearly forbidden in RFC8200 there is no need to add a special case for this (as middleboxes perform any number of transformations that not standards compliant). Given that safe header insertion/deletion is a hard problem that has not been solved, I would remove this text or significantly augment it to describe potential issues that may occur due to header insertion/deletion (similar to the sections related to 6lowpan and translation). o Extension Header insertion or deletion: Although such behavior is not endorsed by current standards, it is possible that Extension Headers could be added to, or removed from the header chain. The resulting packet may be standard-formed, with a corresponding Type-P. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Section 3 Please add RFC6398 as the reference for Router Alert as it provides significant guidelines regarding usage similar to what RFC7045 does for hop-by-hop options. * Section 4 I think this text should be removed [RFC8250] endorses the use of IPv6 extension headers for measurement purposes, consistent with other approved IETF specifications. as RFC8250 uses a destination option and defining new extension headers has been explicitly recommended against by section 4.8 of RFC8200. * Minor => The reference for 6lowpan is wrong throughout the document (typo?). It should be RFC4944 instead of RFC4494 (which is a crypto spec). From nobody Thu Jun 21 06:13:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4255130E2A; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 06:12:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152958677666.31598.2871670854497240031.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 06:12:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:12:57 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I support Adam's DISCUSS. Section 1.1: I'm surprised to see the two references to the long-expired NFVRG drafts. If a reference to describe virtualized infrastructure using orchestration is really needed (I'm not convinced that it is), I would assume a better reference exists from outside the IETF/IRTF. Section 5.2: OLD "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter timestamps undetectably.' See also Section 4 of RFC 7717 and Section 6 of RFC 4656." NEW "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter timestamps undetectably' [Section 6 of RFC 4656]. See also Section 4 of RFC 7717." Process comment more for the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version of this more than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally review again during IETF LC? From nobody Thu Jun 21 06:34:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 955D6130E97; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 06:34:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=FHvd3Fpq; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=qOAenunF Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G-yqwn4ys4Td; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 06:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 763A0130E3B; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 06:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4533211B7; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:34:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-type:date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm3; bh=Y0EJk912+J+ZnnB2ULxnEsCpP0H1rCtHuaJT0yozPdw=; b=FHvd3Fpq Qqt5zre3iN0dUzk9VgLtg8JNsRvVNgkPYZeh9ZbUYZ80nT9hRtMZpTJnr6nymmNW ZAAPLMzH3BKo/+QdC1pQ2Aa+zNmuQfU/5ZMTzoePomOe1J1jdpcjjj7aro2UWMIa lBe4niJoCm+QIkp+EB/PSDAXWGYrqYyxLMyEUW2dWtjaO60hhiIbMwiPW4NH95Kn wr+3VYjzgAmQBnBFqum7pbgR/Y8k4N79UoMOfT+Tv2lW+mRx3rw7lC4Qe8sY5oQp DNoebEdhneRxNHsnvFr6TxiLQVfXMXgiP2GY1vxiaydkCR27c3oUSsrz1dRHWc3e aWHiSyH0Mq53Sg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=Y0EJk912+J+ZnnB2ULxnEsCpP0H1r CtHuaJT0yozPdw=; b=qOAenunFRTW2JoLQQbkqE4G4JdLrTdGCmo6DJqVeuG7G9 sEbRoppmsa97t4VdkBm6XZ6KNknOYGYrKkEI0hy169ox6OrNJCBPEfosceahKH00 WSvdAcE4iTBlbp3Q+Sc+PuvuhIYTh9Okj8SekUlcP8wcOFtzeSMZNBRrgC0L/u4O MtcR6EIJscEMl4ITo0znppLSUiDc3tJ23w6j1BcepjByZnoG2vJgF9lFWhhcWPRU en/PKkzSTf8W00Vzg2UKAchHEoD/eBVeC+GEkX3zC1Dlu08xbl5ftWE2Av9jexfF 1Avb6QG+qLcro09rjyF2aYZyf3lSD00iVj61oelcA== X-ME-Proxy: X-ME-Sender: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.75]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1AA47E44F1; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E4880A38-13E9-4D3A-8A78-FDDD053316C2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:34:47 -0400 Cc: Pete Resnick , General Area Review Team , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang.all@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Message-Id: <2B6D312C-D5E5-4487-953C-C4CF4E82BAE7@cooperw.in> References: <152946732769.32402.15646758857363676488@ietfa.amsl.com> <1EF72E31-8D35-4CB8-BEC7-692E1B0C72B6@qti.qualcomm.com> To: Mahesh Jethanandani X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:34:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E4880A38-13E9-4D3A-8A78-FDDD053316C2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Pete, thanks for your reviews. Mahesh, thanks for your responses. I have = entered a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On Jun 20, 2018, at 3:39 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani = wrote: >=20 > Hi Pete, >=20 > Trimming it down even more. >=20 >> On Jun 20, 2018, at 5:18 AM, Pete Resnick = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Mahesh, >>=20 >> Trimming a bit: >>=20 >> On 20 Jun 2018, at 0:36, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>>> 3.1 - s/The test session name that MUST be identical/The test = session name, >>>> which MUST be identical (Unless you mean something really weird = that I don't >>>> think you mean. If you don't see the difference, then trust me, you = mean >>>> "which", not "that=E2=80=9D.) >>>=20 >>> You mean in Section 3.3. >>=20 >> Yes, sorry about that. Section 3.1 has a similar problem: >>=20 >> s/The test session name that uniquely identifies/The test session = name, which uniquely identifies >>=20 >> and I forgot to note that one. >>=20 >>> How about s/The test session name that MUST be identical with = the/The test session name MUST be identical to the/? >>=20 >> That's not quite right. You are giving a list of fields (as you say, = "Primary configuration fields include:"), so you don't want something in = that list that is a rule. The field is "the test session name", and that = field MUST be identical to the client name. >=20 > What we are trying to say is that =E2=80=9Cthe test session name=E2=80=9D= on the Session-Sender side must correspond to =E2=80=9Cthe test session = name=E2=80=9D on the Control-Client side (not the client's name). >=20 >>=20 >> When you say, "the test session name that MUST be identical with...", = it sounds like there is more than one test session name, >=20 > That is not what we are trying to say. Each test session has only one = name. And that is why I reworded it say =E2=80=9Cthe test session name = MUST be identical to the=E2=80=9D, hopefully implying that there is only = one name. >=20 >> and you're talking about the one that MUST be identical with the = client name. >=20 > What we are trying to say is that every test session in the = Session-Sender has a corresponding test session on the Control-Client. = The name of the test session on the Session-Sender side has to match the = name of the test session on the Control-Client. >=20 >> Similarly with the above, it sounds like there's one test session = name which uniquely identifies it, and one that doesn't uniquely = identify it. That's not what you mean. >=20 > As I say above, the test sessions on either side have only one name. >=20 > Having said all that, if you feel that your suggested edit is better, = we can go with that. I just feel my suggested edit is crisper.=20 >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art = --Apple-Mail=_E4880A38-13E9-4D3A-8A78-FDDD053316C2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Pete, thanks for your reviews. Mahesh, thanks = for your responses. I have entered a No Objection ballot.

Alissa

On = Jun 20, 2018, at 3:39 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Pete,

Trimming it down even more.

On Jun 20, 2018, at 5:18 AM, Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com> wrote:

Hi Mahesh,

Trimming a bit:

On 20 Jun 2018, at 0:36, Mahesh Jethanandani = wrote:


3.1 - = s/The test session name that MUST be identical/The test session name,
which MUST be identical (Unless you mean something really = weird that I don't
think you mean. If you don't see the = difference, then trust me, you mean
"which", not = "that=E2=80=9D.)

You mean in = Section 3.3.

Yes, sorry about = that. Section 3.1 has a similar problem:

s/The test session name that uniquely identifies/The test = session name, which uniquely identifies

and = I forgot to note that one.

How about s/The test session name that MUST be = identical with the/The test session name MUST be identical to the/?

That's not quite right. You are = giving a list of fields (as you say, "Primary configuration fields = include:"), so you don't want something in that list that is a rule. The = field is "the test session name", and that field MUST be identical to = the client name.

What we are trying to say is that =E2=80=9C= the test session name=E2=80=9D on the Session-Sender side must = correspond to =E2=80=9Cthe test session name=E2=80=9D on the = Control-Client side (not the client's name).


When you say, "the test session name = that MUST be identical with...", it sounds like there is more than one = test session name,

That is not what we are trying to say. = Each test session has only one name. And that is why I reworded it say = =E2=80=9Cthe test session name MUST be identical to the=E2=80=9D, = hopefully implying that there is only one name.

and you're talking about the one that MUST be identical = with the client name.

What we are trying to say is that every = test session in the Session-Sender has a corresponding test session on = the Control-Client. The name of the test session on the Session-Sender = side has to match the name of the test session on the = Control-Client.

Similarly with the above, it = sounds like there's one test session name which uniquely identifies it, = and one that doesn't uniquely identify it. That's not what you mean.

As I say above, the test sessions on either side = have only one name.

Having said all that, if you feel that your = suggested edit is better, we can go with that. I just feel my suggested = edit is crisper. 

Thanks.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Gen-art mailing = list
Gen-art@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art

= --Apple-Mail=_E4880A38-13E9-4D3A-8A78-FDDD053316C2-- From nobody Thu Jun 21 06:54:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4049A130DD8; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 06:54:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=ScgflabM; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=rKXY/xec Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QKJ5MlZrCy0l; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 06:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 011FB130E3B; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 06:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FADA21C66; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:54:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=UgKXxogwYnvBwYxAnfDp2HZ7mh0l1 aY0punMCGl+ZL4=; b=ScgflabMf1F5U/ctl8U3YAFoWSRdFnjLDP7XvTpPaD0s2 DFJubl+7Hw1p0i/8rL6EQyWU75IzM5XURan+H3t/l603ppP+pTTHa7XWlbiHAHFg pWNGVzZ5YDp7tHN6dooMa6CI6Ngq5APliDYOtXZjuMle1gCMBifMbO3aXq7yj/53 yptRaeJXxRANjthvBrG4vSwpiZxAzdUKlMwqvsmPMOI3Fdj6/StW6yeBXHRmq5tA COHISnnQxuG0m4+FDIaKD44beKVR7mO/6Dol7eZoACPVhdBbfF6JT4jfbmQOMuYh Poe/YK1F/yX/axphpD3deBGmwyghek2wfqlFu4lhw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=UgKXxo gwYnvBwYxAnfDp2HZ7mh0l1aY0punMCGl+ZL4=; b=rKXY/xecBnWTn4qy0a8rEl NWm6v/ppWNFo8Ep6uxEswcX5Q+CRgbdPTSr+b2o0OZdERv3Tx9P8lIISnXxKgI1t SjrnB2kw/G0ZQqcfe/kMkzZoBWpQRV4DkthbSGU7fDhtes+hFt6ocbZA+LIJfZAn //C+HqbNuGULMyQyPBShtJelzpnSrPAynggCp0kKO5FZnhzgorn53CJY95oj+lnc AesnyCEncpLno5etbKqe0LW+6WSgH+iBsRCbGddMR9vHq644kg9WAdNqfvQzZ7VG 0DdFOSlvbM6d2+AtOiU3A5q0RxsUNtRu2EriFOii7AWDhoOJPeoPv9xI/e0qbINQ == X-ME-Proxy: X-ME-Sender: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.75]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id BEB54E44F3; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:54:05 -0400 Cc: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6.all@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6EB4C990-9B2C-4796-9223-C5F76437245B@cooperw.in> References: <152448027744.5388.467690097024295297@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A8EE72E@njmtexg5.research.att.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A91FF72@njmtexg4.research.att.com> To: Francesca Palombini X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-04 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:54:10 -0000 Francesca, thanks for your reviews. Al, thanks for addressing = Francesca=E2=80=99s review. I have entered a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On May 25, 2018, at 4:24 AM, Francesca Palombini = wrote: >=20 > Hi Al, >=20 > Thanks for addressing my comments, it looks good. >=20 > Francesca >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) >> Sent: den 23 maj 2018 15:39 >> To: Francesca Palombini ; gen- >> art@ietf.org >> Cc: ippm@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6.all@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-04 >>=20 >> Hi Francesca, >> one last item to resolve, we should be good now. >> see below, >> Al >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Francesca Palombini [mailto:francesca.palombini@ericsson.com] >>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2018 3:44 AM >>> To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) ; gen-art@ietf.org >>> Cc: ippm@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; >>> draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6.all@ietf.org >>> Subject: RE: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-04 >>>=20 >>> Hi Al, >>>=20 >>> Thanks for your reply. >>> I cut selected parts of the email to detail some of my comments, see >>> inline. >>>=20 >>> Francesca >>>=20 >> ...snip... >>>>> To be consistent with the first bullet of the list above ("It >>>>> includes a valid IP header: see below for version-specific >>>>> criteria."), I would rephrase the text above with something on the = lines >> of: >>>>>=20 >>>>> "For an IPvX (...) packet to be standard-formed, the IPvX-specific >>>>> criteria for a valid IP header are:" >>>> [acm] >>>> Your wording suggestion dropped the clear indication of a = requirement. >>>> We are using the RFC2119 terms consistently for requirements. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I was trying to point out that the first part of the section (first >>> bullet >>> list) does not use RFC2119 terms. I read the second bullet list as a >>> "sub- list" of the first one, which is why I was suggesting removing >>> the REQUIRED term. Or you could rephrase the first list to use = REQUIRED >> too. >>> Anyway, this is nit-picking. Feel free to disregard. >>>=20 >> [acm] >> I see your point now, and I changed the sentence introducing the = initial (IP >> version-agnostic list) to read: >>=20 >> A packet is standard-formed if it meets all of the following REQUIRED = criteria: >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Thu Jun 21 07:00:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B825130E5A; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:00:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5i6rOgoYkUVU; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x241.google.com (mail-yw0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7015A130E3B; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x241.google.com with SMTP id w13-v6so1186869ywa.5; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:00:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=iynShVpsl4tx3evUd8M9zXA4NhDlQT+rCEusGdjtzc0=; b=tCNiWDNVUAvLFb/iVhprrx5kRYRQ/7ALZ/w9z2vJBmdz4C0yNFh6ayuW8w+KF9OAk/ y2FOeicFaOWE8yl+5au7IZcrEj6YzwQTccRbc550+R6B5ka2aa6tKLdXOQ6OU6C4bWPq V40xdMJmJ6HPbHCbYx1P+fz4G6f3BvrO6zLsDoJxSVNW18vLPbqcf2waI9fnmi9zzPB4 gtn4n7F1MwisM9WU98y7WmBCXVC5qeokf9qUwLsFgkxo+7z2OsXBSGNORFox3ckPbcl/ xERm/XgMONBjr/7QMqbYWSX08WjyAjixGEnoZxPdgHkw9iwUHYxK81QFh0QHRGgoOCk9 FDNw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=iynShVpsl4tx3evUd8M9zXA4NhDlQT+rCEusGdjtzc0=; b=i21xBAkJH03yFvGNRgxJO2V/sK2nPW7EUn3Jvn7Ovd1DB9VBFiGflwvHZJ6o5ThA+z A/v3ff8BHWQ4dbm2u9djbsl4Akw13Kcfc7rFBSD/OaqOzAHNzWObz3ZzftIkj+zt2kxe Jh7seWeX32kRqFQvmUkhSzs1+Iml7PTQScDIv9S5FUGQLTBZsXZFaEKJ+LpqYoIBuM2D O+wQ68fc1n4XFbsRqhxIpaqBxkh6ShjESu2RycwiOPB0c5mvDYxhKZvM0GMJuPtg0AED T8KVijhMXeuODXBz/TKi6bQfTn4sIMj6nzKpUbH2e//rFQgnlI5C3ZeTUGi9OGBi6etr giiA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0Ok+28PVvjlykwGHR2OoS/DhSqUgXQECe0NNWmulxA7Oifh/LD JXjT6og7uMD1fSN4OqcXwQKCn9zJEOz6woiNfag= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLoLoZJ4n92E7DJz0X0jRXqyaR1HwC7GIK1uy5Ns1dKDaO92zFKTpfQ/GIcNDV+SvGg9nzUl/p7Alw1GsWt7YU= X-Received: by 2002:a81:eb06:: with SMTP id n6-v6mr12047698ywm.311.1529589603456; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:00:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <152958677666.31598.2871670854497240031.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <152958677666.31598.2871670854497240031.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:59:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: Alissa Cooper Cc: IESG , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f75cc1056f275415" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:00:07 -0000 --000000000000f75cc1056f275415 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Alissa, On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 8:13 AM Alissa Cooper wrote: > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I support Adam's DISCUSS. > > Section 1.1: I'm surprised to see the two references to the long-expired > NFVRG > drafts. If a reference to describe virtualized infrastructure using > orchestration is really needed (I'm not convinced that it is), I would > assume a > better reference exists from outside the IETF/IRTF. > > Section 5.2: > > OLD > "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter > timestamps undetectably.' See also Section 4 of RFC 7717 > and Section 6 of RFC 4656." > > NEW > "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter > timestamps undetectably' [Section 6 of RFC 4656]. See also > Section 4 of RFC 7717." > > Process comment more for the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version of > this > more than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally review again > during IETF LC? > I'm not that clued about the definition of "normal" for YANG documents (IIRC, this is the first one I've been responsible for), but I noticed that, too, after seeing Adam's ballot. He caught something I'd expect a YANG doctor to catch, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that what they are watching for has changed since 2016, after a few hundred YANG reviews :-) So, yeah, early reviews are great, but maybe IETF LC is a good time to re-review? Spencer --000000000000f75cc1056f275415 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Alissa,

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 8:13 AM Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> wrote:
Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for=
draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/s= tatement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i= etf-ippm-twamp-yang/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I support Adam's DISCUSS.

Section 1.1: I'm surprised to see the two references to the long-expire= d NFVRG
drafts. If a reference to describe virtualized infrastructure using
orchestration is really needed (I'm not convinced that it is), I would = assume a
better reference exists from outside the IETF/IRTF.

Section 5.2:

OLD
"Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 timestamps undetectably.&#= 39; See also Section 4 of RFC 7717
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and Section 6 of RFC 4656.= "

NEW
"Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 timestamps undetectably= 9; [Section 6 of RFC 4656]. See also
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 4 of RFC 7717.&quo= t;

Process comment more for the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version of thi= s
more than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally review again during IETF LC?

I'm not that clued = about the definition of "normal" for YANG documents (IIRC, this i= s the first one I've been responsible for), but I noticed that, too, af= ter seeing Adam's ballot. He caught something I'd expect a YANG doc= tor to catch, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that what they ar= e watching for has changed since 2016, after a few hundred YANG reviews :-)=

So, yeah, early reviews are great, but maybe IETF LC is a good time= to re-review?

Spencer
--000000000000f75cc1056f275415-- From nobody Thu Jun 21 07:24:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24704130E84; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:23:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s5wi-rz6wkqj; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C6DC130E77; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049287.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049287.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w5LEFrku042654; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:23:49 -0400 Received: from tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (sbcsmtp3.sbc.com [144.160.112.28]) by m0049287.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 2jrb433gfs-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:23:48 -0400 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5LENlpJ028860; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:23:47 -0500 Received: from zlp30497.vci.att.com (zlp30497.vci.att.com [135.46.181.156]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5LENeau028707; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:23:40 -0500 Received: from zlp30497.vci.att.com (zlp30497.vci.att.com [127.0.0.1]) by zlp30497.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 2F400400038F; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:23:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (unknown [135.41.1.46]) by zlp30497.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 00370400038C; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:23:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5LENdPb006870; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:23:39 -0500 Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (mail-blue.research.att.com [135.207.178.11]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5LENXlq006425; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:23:34 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55262F2224; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:23:18 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Suresh Krishnan , The IESG CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz" , "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUCV1z1tfcpxRmFUWHbmnOolALRKRqubhg Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:23:32 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EE6D@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152958494006.31485.7887719162606975251.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <152958494006.31485.7887719162606975251.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.201.95.59] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-21_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=958 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806210157 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:24:00 -0000 Hi Suresh, Thanks for your review. Please see the discussion below. We have things to talk about. Al ... > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > * Section 4 >=20 > Since this behavior is clearly forbidden in RFC8200=20 [acm]=20 Although much of the IETF community shares your view, "forbidden" is much too strong a word to describe this=20 sentence/statement in RFC8200 Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. "are not" would not translate to "forbidden" in any SDO I know. I understand that some folks proposed to update the wording to 2119 terms, and were found to be in the rough. Would someone outside IETF reading RFC8200 interpret this sentence as an absolute requirement? I won't list the many possible interpretations. > there is no need to add a > special case for this (as middleboxes perform any number of=20 > transformations that not standards compliant). [acm]=20 Right, but we would want to know those translations happened. Keep in mind that IPPM is in the measurement business, and our systems work better if we detect the unexpected. So, If you are reading the bullet text below as some form of encouragement to insert/delete headers, it is not.=20 > Given that safe header insertion/deletion is a > hard problem that has not been solved, I would remove this text or > significantly augment it to describe potential issues that may occur due = to > header insertion/deletion (similar to the sections related to 6lowpan and > translation). [acm]=20 I think we would be glad to cite several references to cover the potential issues that you provide, but this bullet point has real=20 value to the measurement community. =20 >=20 > o Extension Header insertion or deletion: Although such behavior is > not endorsed by current standards, it is possible that Extension > Headers could be added to, or removed from the header chain. The > resulting packet may be standard-formed, with a corresponding > Type-P. >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > * Section 3 >=20 > Please add RFC6398 as the reference for Router Alert as it provides signi= ficant > guidelines regarding usage similar to what RFC7045 does for hop-by-hop > options. [acm]=20 OK >=20 > * Section 4 >=20 > I think this text should be removed >=20 > [RFC8250] endorses the use of IPv6 extension headers for measurement > purposes, consistent with other approved IETF specifications. >=20 > as RFC8250 uses a destination option and defining new extension headers h= as > been explicitly recommended against by section 4.8 of RFC8200. [acm]=20 Then how was RFC8250 approved? This RFC was developed in IPPM, too. We are clearly not on the same page for this topic, and IPPM's=20 new charter including In-situ OAM may insert more space between us. >=20 > * Minor >=20 > =3D> The reference for 6lowpan is wrong throughout the document (typo?). = It > should be RFC4944 instead of RFC4494 (which is a crypto spec). [acm]=20 OK >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_ippm&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DLFYZ- > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DDq_PPI7bw5x3XowoNQz62vxN= vxK8o > RsRIikvAT5Hv1I&s=3D84DjJ_D-LNGA7NE1iHRKnpMOHEQ_0VcYNGt9Iq8YpIo&e=3D From nobody Thu Jun 21 08:18:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2282130E90; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:18:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vTe7Y6OsljHd; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F179130DE2; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049462.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049462.ppops.net-00191d01. 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(GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5LFIF1R009544; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:18:15 -0500 Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (mail-green.research.att.com [135.207.255.15]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5LFI8mI009130; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:18:09 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D64E268E; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 11:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 11:17:52 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Alissa Cooper CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org" , IESG , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUCWGXeFOrjkwmJUSedJa5zK8JtqRrAIsA///PfpA= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:18:07 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EF6F@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152958677666.31598.2871670854497240031.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.201.95.59] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EF6Fnjmtexg4researc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-21_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806210167 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:18:39 -0000 --_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EF6Fnjmtexg4researc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgU3BlbmNlciBhbmQgQWxpc3NhLA0KDQpGcm9tOiBpcHBtIFttYWlsdG86aXBwbS1ib3VuY2Vz QGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgU3BlbmNlciBEYXdraW5zIGF0IElFVEYNClNlbnQ6IFRo dXJzZGF5LCBKdW5lIDIxLCAyMDE4IDEwOjAwIEFNDQpUbzogQWxpc3NhIENvb3BlciA8YWxpc3Nh QGNvb3BlcncuaW4+DQpDYzogaXBwbS1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaXBwbS10 d2FtcC15YW5nQGlldGYub3JnOyBJRVNHIDxpZXNnQGlldGYub3JnPjsgaXBwbUBpZXRmLm9yZw0K U3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtpcHBtXSBBbGlzc2EgQ29vcGVyJ3MgTm8gT2JqZWN0aW9uIG9uIGRyYWZ0 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X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ua4mjnSB6XVK; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from virgo02.ee.ethz.ch (virgo02.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.72.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5B5C131267; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by virgo02.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41BQR32CM8z15JX7; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 17:21:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at virgo02.ee.ethz.ch Received: from virgo02.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (virgo02.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zCsKbx1hJFFx; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 17:21:50 +0200 (CEST) X-MtScore: NO score=0 Received: from [82.130.103.20] (nb-10688.ethz.ch [82.130.103.20]) by virgo02.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 17:21:50 +0200 (CEST) To: ippm@ietf.org, Spencer Dawkins at IETF , ippm-chairs@ietf.org From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=c3=bchlewind?= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 17:21:50 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] New responsible AD and new co-chair! X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:22:02 -0000 Hello everybody, I would like to do a couple of announcements: First of all a big thanks to Spencer for serving as the responsible AD for IPPM for the last five years! We re-assigned this working group to balance out the load between the ADs. So I'm happy to serve as your responsible ADs from now on! The other announcement is that Tommy Pauly agreed to serve as an additional co-chair for IPPM. Welcome Tommy and thanks for serving! 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boundary="_000_43CCA228673549AFB4535654AC0E7B79kaloomcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: kaloom.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8ee8182d-851a-4437-948f-08d5d78d343e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Jun 2018 15:39:40.8419 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 47d58e26-f796-48e8-ac40-1c365c204513 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: YQXPR0101MB1285 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:39:48 -0000 --_000_43CCA228673549AFB4535654AC0E7B79kaloomcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Al, Thanks for the quick reply. Please find comments inline. On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:23 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) > wrote: Hi Suresh, Thanks for your review. Please see the discussion below. We have things to talk about. Al ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Section 4 Since this behavior is clearly forbidden in RFC8200 [acm] Although much of the IETF community shares your view, "forbidden" is much too strong a word to describe this sentence/statement in RFC8200 Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. "are not" would not translate to "forbidden" in any SDO I know. I understand that some folks proposed to update the wording to 2119 terms, and were found to be in the rough. Actually, the lack of 2119 language in RFC8200 is completely unrelated to t= his issue. We, in the IETF, do not require standards track documents to use= 2119 language (IMHO, I think this is unfortunate and that we should!). The= reason header insertion was not allowed in RFC8200 was because the propone= nts of header insertion could not describe how to do header insertion safel= y on the internet and were not willing to scope the header insertion to pri= vate networks. I do not have a religious position on this and I summarized = my position in a mail to the 6man list on this issue (https://www.ietf.org/= mail-archive/web/ipv6/current/msg27336.html). "I have heard from several persons being concerned about the possibility of= new text in 2460bis being blindly used to block header insertion work in t= he future. I just want to confirm that header insertion work can be conside= red in the future, and that it should be judged on its own merits and not b= e blocked solely based on the header insertion related text in 2460bis." When the ippm work hits the IESG, I (if I am still on it :-)) will hold tha= t work to the same standard. There is some work ongoing (albeit very slowly= ) in 6man to specify safe header insertion https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion-03 and hopefully this work will complete before the in-situ OAM work will hit = the IESG. If not, I see encapsulation and tight scoping as the only way for= ward on this issue. Would someone outside IETF reading RFC8200 interpret this sentence as an absolute requirement? I won't list the many possible interpretations. there is no need to add a special case for this (as middleboxes perform any number of transformations that not standards compliant). [acm] Right, but we would want to know those translations happened. Keep in mind that IPPM is in the measurement business, and our systems work better if we detect the unexpected. So, If you are reading the bullet text below as some form of encouragement to insert/delete headers, it is not. Given that safe header insertion/deletion is a hard problem that has not been solved, I would remove this text or significantly augment it to describe potential issues that may occur due to header insertion/deletion (similar to the sections related to 6lowpan and translation). [acm] I think we would be glad to cite several references to cover the potential issues that you provide, but this bullet point has real value to the measurement community. Yep. That would be a good way to address this DISCUSS point, because I will= clear right away as long as the issues are put forth just like the extensi= ve work you have done in Section 5 for the other *similar* transforms. * Section 4 I think this text should be removed [RFC8250] endorses the use of IPv6 extension headers for measurement purposes, consistent with other approved IETF specifications. as RFC8250 uses a destination option and defining new extension headers has been explicitly recommended against by section 4.8 of RFC8200. [acm] Then how was RFC8250 approved? This RFC was developed in IPPM, too. We are clearly not on the same page for this topic, and IPPM's new charter including In-situ OAM may insert more space between us. RFC8250 defines a new *destination option* and not a new extension header. = That is why it was approved :-) Thanks Suresh --_000_43CCA228673549AFB4535654AC0E7B79kaloomcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Al,
  Thanks for the quick reply. Please find comments inl= ine.

On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:23 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acm@research.att.com>= ; wrote:

Hi Suresh,
Thanks for your review.
Please see the discussion below.
We have things to talk about.

Al

...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

* Section 4

Since this behavior is clearly forbidden in RFC8200 
[acm] 
Although much of the IETF community shares your view,
"forbidden" is much too strong a word to describe this 
sentence/statement in RFC8200

  Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not
  processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery
  path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes,
  in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field<= br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 1= 2px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; le= tter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: = none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0p= x; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">   of the IPv6 header.

"are not" would not translate to "forbidden" in any SDO I know.<= /span>
I understand that some folks proposed to update the wording to 2119 terms, and were found to be in the rough.

Actually, the lack of 2119 language in RFC8200 is completely unrelated to t= his issue. We, in the IETF, do not require standards track documents to use= 2119 language (IMHO, I think this is unfortunate and that we should!). The= reason header insertion was not allowed in RFC8200 was because the proponents of header insertion could no= t describe how to do header insertion safely on the internet and were not w= illing to scope the header insertion to private networks. I do not have a r= eligious position on this and I summarized my position in a mail to the 6man list on this issue (https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipv6/current/msg27336.html)= . 

"I have heard from several persons being concerned abo= ut the possibility of new text in 2460bis being blindly used to block heade= r insertion work in the future. I just want to confirm that header insertio= n work can be considered in the future, and that it should be judged on its own merits and not be blocked solely b= ased on the header insertion related text in 2460bis."

When the ippm work hits the IESG, I (if I am still on it :-= )) will hold that work to the same standard. There is some work ongoing (al= beit very slowly) in 6man to specify safe header insertion 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vo= yer-6man-extension-header-insertion-03

and hopefully this work will complete before the in-situ OA= M work will hit the IESG. If not, I see encapsulation and tight scoping as = the only way forward on this issue.


Would someone outside IETF
reading RFC8200 interpret this sentence as an absolute requirement?
I won't list the many possible interpretations.


there is no need to add a
special case for this (as middleboxes perform any number of 
transformations that not standards compliant).
[acm] 
Right, but we would want to know those translations happened.
Keep in mind that IPPM is in the measurement business,
and our systems work better if we detect the unexpected.
So, If you are reading the bullet text below as some form of
encouragement to insert/delete headers, it is not.=  

Given that safe header insertion/deletion is a
hard problem that has not been solved, I would remove this text or
significantly augment it to describe potential issues that may occur due to=
header insertion/deletion (similar to the sections related to 6lowpan and translation).
[acm] 
I think we would be glad to cite several references to cover
the potential issues that you provide, but this bullet point has real 
value to the measurement community.

Yep. That would be a good way to address this DISCUSS point, because I will= clear right away as long as the issues are put forth just like the extensi= ve work you have done in Section 5 for the other *similar* transforms.



* Section 4

I think this text should be removed

  [RFC8250] endorses the use of IPv6 extension headers for measur= ement
  purposes, consistent with other approved IETF specifications.
as RFC8250 uses a destination option and defining new extension headers has=
been explicitly recommended against by section 4.8 of RFC8200.
[acm] 
Then how was RFC8250 approved? This RFC was developed in IPPM, too.
We are clearly not on the same page for this topic, and IPPM's 
new charter including In-situ OAM may insert more space between us.

RFC8250 defines a new *destination option* and not a new extension header. = That is why it was approved :-)

Thanks
Suresh

--_000_43CCA228673549AFB4535654AC0E7B79kaloomcom_-- From nobody Thu Jun 21 09:31:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6362212F1AC; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:30:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xq_J9ESm6ZoK; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 112CF120049; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049459.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049459.ppops.net-00191d01. 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We're getting closer. Let's keep going... From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Suresh Krishnan Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:40 AM To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) Cc: ippm-chairs@ietf.org; n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz; The IESG ; draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-= 05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Hi Al, Thanks for the quick reply. Please find comments inline. On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:23 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) > wrote: Hi Suresh, Thanks for your review. Please see the discussion below. We have things to talk about. Al ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Section 4 Since this behavior is clearly forbidden in RFC8200 [acm] Although much of the IETF community shares your view, "forbidden" is much too strong a word to describe this sentence/statement in RFC8200 Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. "are not" would not translate to "forbidden" in any SDO I know. I understand that some folks proposed to update the wording to 2119 terms, and were found to be in the rough. Actually, the lack of 2119 language in RFC8200 is completely unrelated to t= his issue. We, in the IETF, do not require standards track documents to use= 2119 language (IMHO, I think this is unfortunate and that we should!). [acm] Yes, we heard this position on 2119 terms during the exchange with 6man folks. IMO, it doesn't help to take a fringe/exception position when stating such an important requirement. As I said, someone reading this "cold" is not going to see a requirement, and so the IETF'ers have heavy baggage to carry - to explain this to everyone who gets it wrong. This is one reason we need to be prepared to detect this in measurement systems (and that's the relationship, ambiguous requirement wording will make this error more likely!). The reason header insertion was not allowed in RFC8200 was because the prop= onents of header insertion could not describe how to do header insertion sa= fely on the internet and were not willing to scope the header insertion to = private networks. I do not have a religious position on this and I summariz= ed my position in a mail to the 6man list on this issue (https://www.ietf.o= rg/mail-archive/web/ipv6/current/msg27336.html).. "I have heard from several persons being concerned about the possibility of= new text in 2460bis being blindly used to block header insertion work in t= he future. I just want to confirm that header insertion work can be conside= red in the future, and that it should be judged on its own merits and not b= e blocked solely based on the header insertion related text in 2460bis." When the ippm work hits the IESG, I (if I am still on it :-)) will hold tha= t work to the same standard. There is some work ongoing (albeit very slowly= ) in 6man to specify safe header insertion https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion-03<= https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_= draft-2Dvoyer-2D6man-2Dextension-2Dheader-2Dinsertion-2D03&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DL= FYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3Dc0q9R673pxJFQtApvfYaAg= kBdWTLaVGLE0njCE2DVl8&s=3DbHo-N2I44qQUiGNT3deL8lrmvmBLV0hGN_SNBYU4OOo&e=3D> and hopefully this work will complete before the in-situ OAM work will hit = the IESG. If not, I see encapsulation and tight scoping as the only way for= ward on this issue. Would someone outside IETF reading RFC8200 interpret this sentence as an absolute requirement? I won't list the many possible interpretations. there is no need to add a special case for this (as middleboxes perform any number of transformations that not standards compliant). [acm] Right, but we would want to know those translations happened. Keep in mind that IPPM is in the measurement business, and our systems work better if we detect the unexpected. So, If you are reading the bullet text below as some form of encouragement to insert/delete headers, it is not. Given that safe header insertion/deletion is a hard problem that has not been solved, I would remove this text or significantly augment it to describe potential issues that may occur due to header insertion/deletion (similar to the sections related to 6lowpan and translation). [acm] I think we would be glad to cite several references to cover the potential issues that you provide, but this bullet point has real value to the measurement community. Yep. That would be a good way to address this DISCUSS point, because I will= clear right away as long as the issues are put forth just like the extensi= ve work you have done in Section 5 for the other *similar* transforms. [acm] As I said above, we need some help here. We have already cited: The topic of IPv6 Extension Headers brings current controversies into focus as noted by [RFC6564] and [RF= C7045]. in the sentences leading to this bullet list. If you (or others) can provide additional references that describe the issues, then it's completely appropriate to include them, IMO. At the same time, I hope you are not asking that we research and summarize all discussions on Extension Header Insertion issues in this memo. That's well beyond our scope, and would seem to be better positioned if the issues were cataloged in the Internet Area literature. * Section 4 I think this text should be removed [RFC8250] endorses the use of IPv6 extension headers for measurement purposes, consistent with other approved IETF specifications. as RFC8250 uses a destination option and defining new extension headers has been explicitly recommended against by section 4.8 of RFC8200. [acm] Then how was RFC8250 approved? This RFC was developed in IPPM, too. We are clearly not on the same page for this topic, and IPPM's new charter including In-situ OAM may insert more space between us. RFC8250 defines a new *destination option* and not a new extension header. = That is why it was approved :-) [acm] So, it seems our terminology needs reconciliation, too. RFC8250 says 3.1. Destination Options Header The IPv6 Destination Options extension header [RFC8200] is used to carry optional information that needs to be examined only by a packet's destination node(s). The Destination Options header is identified by a Next Header value of 60 in the immediately preceding header and is defined in RFC 8200 [RFC8200]. and goes on to define the PDM DOH. RFC 8200 (sec 4) says: A full implementation of IPv6 includes implementation of the following extension headers: Hop-by-Hop Options Fragment Destination Options Routing Authentication Encapsulating Security Payload What subtlety of RFC8200 are we missing here? Thanks, Al Thanks Suresh --_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EFEEnjmtexg4researc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Suresh,

Thanks for your reply. We’re getting clo= ser. Let’s keep going...

 <= /span>

From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf= .org] On Behalf Of Suresh Krishnan
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:40 AM
To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acm@research.att.com>
Cc: ippm-chairs@ietf.org; n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz; The IESG <ie= sg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-233= 0-ipv6-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

 

Hi Al,

  Thanks for the quick reply. Please find comme= nts inline.



On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:23 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) = <acm@research.att.com> wr= ote:

 

Hi Suresh,
Thanks for your review.
Please see the discussion below.
We have things to talk about.

Al

...

--------------------------------------------------= --------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

* Section 4

Since this behavior is clearly forbidden in RFC8200 

[acm] <= /span>
Although much of the IETF community shares your view,
"forbidden" is much too strong a word to describe this 
sentence/statement in RFC8200

  Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) ar= e not
  processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's de= livery
  path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of = nodes,
  in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address= field
  of the IPv6 header.

"are not" would not translate to "forbidden" in any SDO= I know.
I understand that some folks proposed to update the wording to 2119
terms, and were found to be in the rough.

 

Actually, the lack of 2119 language in RFC8200 is co= mpletely unrelated to this issue. We, in the IETF, do not require standards= track documents to use 2119 language (IMHO, I think this is unfortunate an= d that we should!).

[acm]

Yes, we heard this position on 2119 term= s during the exchange

with 6man folks. IMO, it doesn’t h= elp to take a fringe/exception position

when stating such an important requireme= nt. As I said,

someone reading this “cold” = is not going to see a requirement, and

so the IETF’ers have heavy baggage= to carry – to explain this to

everyone who gets it wrong. This is one = reason we need to be prepared

to detect this in measurement systems (a= nd that’s the relationship,

ambiguous requirement wording will make = this error more likely!).

 

The reason header insertion was not allowed in RFC82= 00 was because the proponents of header insertion could not describe how to= do header insertion safely on the internet and were not willing to scope t= he header insertion to private networks. I do not have a religious position on this and I summarized my position in= a mail to the 6man list on this issue (https://www.ietf.o= rg/mail-archive/web/ipv6/current/msg27336.html).. 

 

"I have heard from several persons being concer= ned about the possibility of new text in 2460bis being blindly used to bloc= k header insertion work in the future. I just want to confirm that header i= nsertion work can be considered in the future, and that it should be judged on its own merits and not be blocked = solely based on the header insertion related text in 2460bis."

 

When the ippm work hits the IESG, I (if I am still o= n it :-)) will hold that work to the same standard. There is some work ongo= ing (albeit very slowly) in 6man to specify safe header insertion 

 

 

and hopefully this work will complete before the in-= situ OAM work will hit the IESG. If not, I see encapsulation and tight scop= ing as the only way forward on this issue.

 

 

Would someone outside IETF
reading RFC8200 interpret this sentence as an absolute requirement?
I won't list the many possible interpretations.



there is no need to add a
special case for this (as middleboxes perform any number of 
transformations that not standards compliant).

[acm] <= /span>
Right, but we would want to know those translations happened.
Keep in mind that IPPM is in the measurement business,
and our systems work better if we detect the unexpected.
So, If you are reading the bullet text below as some form of
encouragement to insert/delete headers, it is not. 



Given that safe header insertion/deletion is a
hard problem that has not been solved, I would remove this text or
significantly augment it to describe potential issues that may occur due to=
header insertion/deletion (similar to the sections related to 6lowpan and translation).

[acm] <= /span>
I think we would be glad to cite several references to cover
the potential issues that you provide, but this bullet point has real 
value to the measurement community.

 

Yep. That would be a good way to address this DISCUS= S point, because I will clear right away as long as the issues are put fort= h just like the extensive work you have done in Section 5 for the other *si= milar* transforms.

[acm]

As I said above, we need some help here.= We have already cited:

 

   The topic of IPv6 Extension Headers brings cu= rrent controversies into

   focus as noted by [RFC6564] and [RFC7045].

 

in the sentences leading to this bullet = list. If you (or others)

can provide additional references that d= escribe the issues, then

it’s completely appropriate to inc= lude them, IMO. At the same

time, I hope you are not asking that we = research and summarize

all discussions on Extension Header Inse= rtion issues in this memo.

That’s well beyond our scope, and = would seem to be better positioned

if the issues were cataloged in the Inte= rnet Area literature.

 =


* Section 4

I think this text should be removed

  [RFC8250] endorses the use of IPv6 extension headers for measur= ement
  purposes, consistent with other approved IETF specifications.
as RFC8250 uses a destination option and defining new extension headers has=
been explicitly recommended against by section 4.8 of RFC8200.

[acm] <= /span>
Then how was RFC8250 approved? This RFC was developed in IPPM, too.
We are clearly not on the same page for this topic, and IPPM's 
new charter including In-situ OAM may insert more space between us.<= o:p>

 

RFC8250 defines a new *destination option* and not a= new extension header. That is why it was approved :-)

[acm]

So, it seems our terminology needs recon= ciliation, too.

RFC8250 says

3.1.  Destina= tion Options Header

 <= /span>

   The I= Pv6 Destination Options extension header [RFC8200] is used to

   carry= optional information that needs to be examined only by a=

   packe= t's destination node(s).  The Destination Options header is=

   ident= ified by a Next Header value of 60 in the immediately preceding<= /span>

   header and is defined in RFC 8200= [RFC8200].

 

and goes on to define the PDM DOH.<= /o:p>

 

RFC 8200 (sec 4) says:=

   A ful= l implementation of IPv6 includes implementation of the

   follo= wing extension headers:

 <= /span>

   =    Hop-by-Hop Options

   =    Fragment

   =    Destination Options

   =    Routing

   =    Authentication

      Encapsulating S= ecurity Payload

 

What subtlety of RFC8200 are we missing = here?

 

Thanks,

Al

 

 

 

Thanks

Suresh

 

--_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EFEEnjmtexg4researc_-- From nobody Thu Jun 21 10:00:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95168130E9F; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:00:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=CUVNmy9h; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=i5bBp+Te Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tIRB02iX1AOr; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD1C0130E42; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16F42231E; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:00:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-type:date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm3; bh=Zeufi94M9TdWK5Z67fpMijF6JKl0sBKHbW6odj4Loxk=; b=CUVNmy9h WTuK9TtrSCRRy+XvM6Pc1TCAhTJNDV27/o7HfQSJqeGUZ/nkHd3d4OApWp0guSvH X4yRM6zAIkxqaq+gPAcQqRKIrEhldU6G/+OfU4WxHEZs13D3Lwk0m0ZU7nvTd7dm M6oiYHWTAS0YEnFnXEaij/0pAL0YKNJTethxFdn54h7/HnhnI7wV7ZEiCtP2ByOB 2G75+kp6OxIN04XQR/LQ5coOCPtoS6cFUy02e4dTKSND2pViujiJeHgKN08FrLqi aGBZ6mnAbiLDviRb3Dd10t80tyc9xeWzoUa2/XpUy8bTCeMzMplMxQT2jUTgFb+W vJG2CqtKTguczw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=Zeufi94M9TdWK5Z67fpMijF6JKl0s BKHbW6odj4Loxk=; b=i5bBp+TeuPrpI8E60WvEWq/kBaro4hLuIYlvs9lemuudc nEMfDhQrFdfl3Kw72wCHSs6HDDnwmdVA6X+TGkTPMTmnLgduitBTLu8UsCk5yezb oJfR/GNR4pEtEoiFNESinv1K/gRR6FU3W3Ijkun7YCoSicLLCFRVQh8IS72hMfB8 q5urmbSLD9AuEuJTGrOJV9l9u8Dvg7a0LxtYV7D9cdyoXv8J/NIDF3ZMUyE2UH3x 69WH+ZeqQyAJiwzM90mnl/5wrkgipkFvOplp6AxkvIsuOBHBowE9X0CQkdWmGpH/ ZSPpBioLFnorPMJ5Sh7ZSXozi1+t/zOjGbRE6W2dA== X-ME-Proxy: X-ME-Sender: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.75]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4CD0AE4919; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CA30F64C-43C1-4DB0-865B-AC283B59765C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EF6F@njmtexg4.research.att.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:00:22 -0400 Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org" , IESG , "ippm@ietf.org" Message-Id: <27B59F51-F51D-4649-8C08-D145CAE63A70@cooperw.in> References: <152958677666.31598.2871670854497240031.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EF6F@njmtexg4.research.att.com> To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 17:00:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CA30F64C-43C1-4DB0-865B-AC283B59765C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jun 21, 2018, at 11:18 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) = wrote: >=20 > Process comment more for the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version = of this > more than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally review = again > during IETF LC? > =20 > I'm not that clued about the definition of "normal" for YANG documents = (IIRC, this is the first one I've been responsible for), but I noticed = that, too, after seeing Adam's ballot. He caught something I'd expect a = YANG doctor to catch, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that what = they are watching for has changed since 2016, after a few hundred YANG = reviews :-) >=20 > So, yeah, early reviews are great, but maybe IETF LC is a good time to = re-review? >=20 > Spencer > [acm] > It is my recollection that we had a YANG Doctor Review from Jan = Lindblad, > a complete re-review from Jan several months later (after addressing = earlier > comments), and a re-re-review from Ladislav Lhokta after that. Great! Weird that they did not appear in the datatracker. Alissa > =20 > We took the Doctors=E2=80=99 many prescriptions for better model = health. > Al --Apple-Mail=_CA30F64C-43C1-4DB0-865B-AC283B59765C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8


On = Jun 21, 2018, at 11:18 AM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acm@research.att.com> wrote:

Process comment more for = the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version of this
more = than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally review again
during IETF LC?
 
I'm not that clued about the definition of "normal" = for YANG documents (IIRC, this is the first one I've been responsible = for), but I noticed that, too, after seeing Adam's ballot. He caught = something I'd expect a YANG doctor to catch, and it wouldn't surprise me = to find out that what they are watching for has changed since 2016, = after a few hundred YANG reviews :-)

So, = yeah, early reviews are great, but maybe IETF LC is a good time to = re-review?

Spencer
[acm]
It is my recollection that we = had a YANG Doctor Review from Jan Lindblad,
a complete re-review from Jan = several months later (after addressing earlier
comments), and a re-re-review = from Ladislav Lhokta after = that.

Great! Weird that they did not = appear in the datatracker.

Alissa

 
We took the Doctors=E2=80=99 = many prescriptions for better model health.
Al

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Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:13:54 -0500 Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (mail-green.research.att.com [135.207.255.15]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5LJDj1j000545; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:13:46 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41BBE14C7; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:13:29 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Ben Campbell , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org" , Brian Trammell , Nevil Brownlee , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUCEZkikQJI1/xF0m1DPdNMYVxQKRrEr6Q Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 19:13:43 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92F15A@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152946514936.32242.15260380803081346147.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <152946514936.32242.15260380803081346147.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.201.95.59] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-21_08:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=939 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806210205 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 19:14:17 -0000 SGkgQmVuLA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IEJlbiBDYW1w YmVsbCBbbWFpbHRvOmJlbkBub3N0cnVtLmNvbV0NCi4uLg0KPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+IENP TU1FTlQ6DQo+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCj4gDQo+IFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBMYW5ndWFnZTogUGxl YXNlIHVzZSB0aGUgYWN0dWFsIGJvaWxlcnBsYXRlIHNwZWNpZmllZCBpbiBSRkMNCj4gODE3NC4N Cj4NClthY21dIA0KV2UgaGF2ZToNCjMyCVJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBMYW5ndWFnZQ0KDQozNAkgICBU aGUga2V5IHdvcmRzICJNVVNUIiwgIk1VU1QgTk9UIiwgIlJFUVVJUkVEIiwgIlNIQUxMIiwgIlNI QUxMIE5PVCIsDQozNQkgICAiU0hPVUxEIiwgIlNIT1VMRCBOT1QiLCAiUkVDT01NRU5ERUQiLCAi TUFZIiwgYW5kICJPUFRJT05BTCIgaW4gdGhpcw0KMzYJICAgZG9jdW1lbnQgYXJlIHRvIGJlIGlu dGVycHJldGVkIGFzIGRlc2NyaWJlZCBpbiBbUkZDMjExOV0gYW5kIHVwZGF0ZWQNCjM3CSAgIGJ5 IFtSRkM4MTc0XS4NCg0KYW5kIFJGQyA4MTc0IHNheXM6DQoNCg0KICAgQXV0aG9ycyB3aG8gZm9s bG93IHRoZXNlIGd1aWRlbGluZXMgc2hvdWxkIGluY29ycG9yYXRlIHRoaXMgcGhyYXNlDQogICBu ZWFyIHRoZSBiZWdpbm5pbmcgb2YgdGhlaXIgZG9jdW1lbnQ6DQoNCiAgICAgIFRoZSBrZXkgd29y ZHMgIk1VU1QiLCAiTVVTVCBOT1QiLCAiUkVRVUlSRUQiLCAiU0hBTEwiLCAiU0hBTEwNCiAgICAg IE5PVCIsICJTSE9VTEQiLCAiU0hPVUxEIE5PVCIsICJSRUNPTU1FTkRFRCIsICJOT1QgUkVDT01N RU5ERUQiLA0KICAgICAgIk1BWSIsIGFuZCAiT1BUSU9OQUwiIGluIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgYXJl IHRvIGJlIGludGVycHJldGVkIGFzDQogICAgICBkZXNjcmliZWQgaW4gQkNQIDE0IFtSRkMyMTE5 XSBbUkZDODE3NF0gd2hlbiwgYW5kIG9ubHkgd2hlbiwgdGhleQ0KICAgICAgYXBwZWFyIGluIGFs bCBjYXBpdGFscywgYXMgc2hvd24gaGVyZS4NCg0KTm90aW5nIHRoYXQgUkZDIDgxNzQgdXNlcyBh IGxvd2VyLWNhc2UgInNob3VsZCIsIHRoZXJlJ3Mgbm8gcmVxdWlyZW1lbnQNCnRvIHVzZSB0aGlz IGV4YWN0IHdvcmRpbmcsIHJpZ2h0PyAgDQoNCkJ1dCB5b3Ugc2FpZCAicGxlYXNlIiwgYW5kIHRo YXQgbWVhbnMgbXVjaCBtb3JlIHRoYW4gInNob3VsZCIuDQoNCkkndmUgdXBkYXRlZCB0aGUgd29y a2luZyB0ZXh0IChhbmQgSSBoYXZlIG1hbnkgb3RoZXJzIGluLWZsaWdodA0KdGhhdCBuZWVkIHRo aXMgdXBkYXRlLCB0b28pLg0KDQpyZWdhcmRzLA0KQWwNCg0KDQogDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Jun 21 12:19:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FA6A130DFB for ; 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Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:18:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.95] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <8809800D-4DF6-43E4-99B6-6FD6F3FABFFE@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C3F1B1B6-60A5-4E69-BF52-925F6FCD8AEF"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:18:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92F15A@njmtexg4.research.att.com> Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org" , Brian Trammell , Nevil Brownlee , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" References: <152946514936.32242.15260380803081346147.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92F15A@njmtexg4.research.att.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 19:19:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C3F1B1B6-60A5-4E69-BF52-925F6FCD8AEF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jun 21, 2018, at 2:13 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Ben, >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com] > ... >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> Requirements Language: Please use the actual boilerplate specified in = RFC >> 8174. >>=20 > [acm] > We have: > 32 Requirements Language >=20 > 34 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL = NOT", > 35 "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" = in this > 36 document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119] and = updated > 37 by [RFC8174]. >=20 > and RFC 8174 says: >=20 >=20 > Authors who follow these guidelines should incorporate this phrase > near the beginning of their document: >=20 > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL > NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", > "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as > described in BCP 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174] when, and only when, they > appear in all capitals, as shown here. >=20 > Noting that RFC 8174 uses a lower-case "should", there's no = requirement > to use this exact wording, right? My primary concern is not the exact wording, but the fact that the 8174 = boilerplate mentions the part about appearing in all capitals. >=20 > But you said "please", and that means much more than "should=E2=80=9D. Thanks :-) >=20 > I've updated the working text (and I have many others in-flight > that need this update, too). >=20 > regards, > Al >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_C3F1B1B6-60A5-4E69-BF52-925F6FCD8AEF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlsr+hgACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A2wyg//T/DzlQLoWXaom/QwgRsejeaRsPvXxbIUnhfPa0INSyati1yzq1kIW8pP 9G41Xt8NBTnFROcmo7VKN6DljsfI5hqL2vZ1RDJMFASqhNSJMfRz3WpbcJp+tSed /wl2f+IfCg6B3bxSPLCC55T6UrSN0LUHOyjCLuct62oB7C2KiWb6yX4GtIckZg/j 0zOMjqdALBTtsJMAG+VZmZ+Y8a99+d9ca0DR2dHy0FkcOjnnH6/Dx7j0SwQZl26U ViGj69uBk/PK24zJLz/SzDgmTc22ih9PtcizwW8MMZZ8iOtRJCAYSjC0JCgeCgIm t6pLJGT3Z+BW65r26xyAOAO3gCnYvDf9ZXo9vfyt0yatRMYAYkYV8D7MQFqWfT4t LCJ898oLSRSkH5+B+dWsKYyeugHZKCtrmJubLHWVISi7F4foEnuQmIubVX/mmgsr 9pUzXy7xjfnnhVu71wjOzeigMCxuZimhWcaKGxyjNOCQrGDbbatl4lWYzjJ7/zPt gx2+8mr3HDrOOAOvfXWLM9y9a3cKe2Y68omPZIBWwfWafYSHw3DtfzXU/yYqIXnV T3NbXkP73FJF3H0z81TjlMNjLtzz4phQjCZ15+NX5sWgzzGlBTQsEJb1y/dH5DDS EzDWEmTshd7GIldopBwjRGF1uGeoSDbKOpNDH/3BUNDDmg2eOMo= =GLSf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_C3F1B1B6-60A5-4E69-BF52-925F6FCD8AEF-- From nobody Thu Jun 21 13:46:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37245130E0E; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:46:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KO6xG15AFHGf; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x243.google.com (mail-pl0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3748C1294D0; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x243.google.com with SMTP id 30-v6so2276376pld.13; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:46:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IRoy+G5UaS70dqmqPfotuLHLI1q7i63u1yIF8DksH/w=; b=gUogH2h5BqUD/jY0CbqLRu3MbJr4601sh4l89qExnF+U2eYUZCFw9zi89IKpJqNj2/ dkTF1VtRFO78WbV0luMp1sAEgorXLGOOF+9gVtB+kbfiQdFEXVqR+KB70tjzxnziYmqD TZ9UHGLycCKQhLnQd825Tz30jdvLQW0hhY8ufoEZ4ljRNtXcEHsTxmEUlKSq11tXC1Rq ozXhHFGMsf+YRIg6dGtVlITukjDKjZatZVMHVkxhUZzqwG2wdbsbWBG/1yXMqULug6+o wjIEbSxdGYoXgcQ2F3cIHdWPzyHEXwX1PboFZ8Qm9+/nkRUNncfuRzRvQBlsRRiu9jLi 1V0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IRoy+G5UaS70dqmqPfotuLHLI1q7i63u1yIF8DksH/w=; b=tRAG+2TRIWPG3lUFDId7N9rYBaOmHp7Y2UjDbai63tdS/XtWUe+14tWGRfjc/Ugytx xbY6xi+PvYvhDM+2GhEUQjJ/OxqvaqdwYgw47CE5TTtKE7BgCjzRFpexoBxSyY4JrvGc GZTXlyQtxH+0gwlQ+qDQ/jppKtQKvmLDtbvKKhBEtWw23QySyktWkxZLdNzBUBL5vGGZ x51Z6Wyq4IK1vXlRqZ8L4JrBnAQ/+eO0qsH2UjsiNIn4byEBEDLeijSDTX0hvA1Ba0VY fP6ljxV8ctcfZ6EtXgSyE2gr1j7DB9125xXrTYzO0tveSmSg6YKdLQB0fR4raIokd+V3 T/mw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2XJhUEqLzimEWHBMsbL20Bo3TmWXu1AqgoXgtWG4ucMhIJYo4a yvyYR0cLvpcLcCqXpx2mjdk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJV1yN5pLUwSUzjLl1Oh2HdKcRYIUoLbDkdXxgxTRDqqLuVoN6gN9EiiHuZ4Wq/dMscnG7kNQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:1a2:: with SMTP id b31-v6mr29434055plb.279.1529614002759; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:1d96:fa8c:b9ff:6154? ([2601:647:4700:1280:1d96:fa8c:b9ff:6154]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k15-v6sm8692930pfi.37.2018.06.21.13.46.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <152950984681.28540.15458643208076088093.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:46:40 -0700 Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> References: <152950984681.28540.15458643208076088093.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Ignas Bagdonas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 20:46:46 -0000 Hi Ignas, > On Jun 20, 2018, at 8:50 AM, Ignas Bagdonas = wrote: >=20 > Ignas Bagdonas has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I have three large areas of questions related to this model. They are = not > related to the contents of the module itself but to the broader scope = of where > this model can and should fit in the overall context of practical = manageability > and usability. >=20 > 1. Operational state. Section 2 defines operational aspects of the = configured > TWAMP mechanisms as being out of scope. How does that relate to the = motivation > goals in section 1? Having no common machine readable mechanism for = retrieving > measurement results and verifying the operation of measurement = processes does > not seem to help in reducing the need for proprietary mechanisms. The idea behind describing operational part of the model as out of = scope, particularly as they relate to measurement results, relates the = work that is currently going on in the =E2=80=9CRegistry of Performance = Metrics (PM)=E2=80=9D, something the IPPM WG is trying to finish. Once = that work is complete, this model can be enhanced or another one written = to provide the data needed for PM. >=20 > 2. What is the compatibility of this model with NMDA? This model is compatible with NMDA. >=20 > 3. Key storage. The document defines its own way of storing keys - = while there > are multiple existing ways to store keys (routing key-chain model, = I2NSF, IPsec > model, netconf-keystore). Why yet another key storage mechanism is = required? > What could be reused from other existing mechanisms? Precisely. When we started work on this draft, there were plethora of = ideas on how to store keys. We borrowed the idea from what is now the = ietf-key-chain module to define the key chain. And we followed the KISS = principle by incorporating what was absolutely needed by TWAMP. Having the answers for the three points that you have raised, would you = still have a DISCUSS. If so, which issue, do you want to see addressed? >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > RFC1305 is obsoleted by RFC5905. Updated. >=20 > A nit suggestion - YANG examples typically look more readable in JSON = encoding. I am reading this is more as a suggestion than as a nit. >=20 > IANA considerations section - likley the registrant contact should be = the IESG and not the IPPM WG? Will fix. Thanks. >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Thu Jun 21 14:18:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1334130DC2; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:17:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3vbLhA4r9fpB; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D0531294D0; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049297.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049297.ppops.net-00191d01. 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Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:17:40 -0500 Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (mail-blue.research.att.com [135.207.178.11]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5LLHWqI029312; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:17:32 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC25FF2228; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 17:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 17:17:16 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Ignas Bagdonas CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org" , The IESG , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUCK6cV9pAwZWkP0umZEcMZTvw06Rrc5kA///AWJA= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:17:30 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92F2F3@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152950984681.28540.15458643208076088093.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.201.95.59] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-21_10:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806210227 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:17:52 -0000 SGkgSWduYXMgYW5kIE1haGVzaCwNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBG cm9tOiBpcHBtIFttYWlsdG86aXBwbS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgTWFo ZXNoIEpldGhhbmFuZGFuaQ0KPiBTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgSnVuZSAyMSwgMjAxOCA0OjQ3IFBN DQo+IFRvOiBJZ25hcyBCYWdkb25hcyA8aWJhZ2RvbmFAZ21haWwuY29tPg0KPiBDYzogaXBwbS1j aGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaXBwbS10d2FtcC15YW5nQGlldGYub3JnOyBUaGUg SUVTRw0KPiA8aWVzZ0BpZXRmLm9yZz47IGlwcG1AaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtp cHBtXSBJZ25hcyBCYWdkb25hcycgRGlzY3VzcyBvbiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWlwcG0tdHdhbXAteWFu Zy0NCj4gMTE6ICh3aXRoIERJU0NVU1MgYW5kIENPTU1FTlQpDQo+IA0KPiBIaSBJZ25hcywNCj4g DQo+ID4gT24gSnVuIDIwLCAyMDE4LCBhdCA4OjUwIEFNLCBJZ25hcyBCYWdkb25hcyA8aWJhZ2Rv bmFAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPg0KLi4uDQo+ID4NCj4gPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+ ID4gRElTQ1VTUzoNCj4gPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBJIGhhdmUgdGhyZWUgbGFy Z2UgYXJlYXMgb2YgcXVlc3Rpb25zIHJlbGF0ZWQgdG8gdGhpcyBtb2RlbC4gVGhleSBhcmUgbm90 DQo+ID4gcmVsYXRlZCB0byB0aGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgdGhlIG1vZHVsZSBpdHNlbGYgYnV0IHRv IHRoZSBicm9hZGVyIHNjb3BlIG9mIHdoZXJlDQo+ID4gdGhpcyBtb2RlbCBjYW4gYW5kIHNob3Vs ZCBmaXQgaW4gdGhlIG92ZXJhbGwgY29udGV4dCBvZiBwcmFjdGljYWwgbWFuYWdlYWJpbGl0eQ0K PiA+IGFuZCB1c2FiaWxpdHkuDQo+ID4NCj4gPiAxLiBPcGVyYXRpb25hbCBzdGF0ZS4gU2VjdGlv biAyIGRlZmluZXMgb3BlcmF0aW9uYWwgYXNwZWN0cyBvZiB0aGUgY29uZmlndXJlZA0KPiA+IFRX QU1QIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgYXMgYmVpbmcgb3V0IG9mIHNjb3BlLiBIb3cgZG9lcyB0aGF0IHJlbGF0 ZSB0byB0aGUgbW90aXZhdGlvbg0KPiA+IGdvYWxzIGluIHNlY3Rpb24gMT8gSGF2aW5nIG5vIGNv bW1vbiBtYWNoaW5lIHJlYWRhYmxlIG1lY2hhbmlzbSBmb3IgcmV0cmlldmluZw0KPiA+IG1lYXN1 cmVtZW50IHJlc3VsdHMgYW5kIHZlcmlmeWluZyB0aGUgb3BlcmF0aW9uIG9mIG1lYXN1cmVtZW50 IHByb2Nlc3NlcyBkb2VzDQo+ID4gbm90IHNlZW0gdG8gaGVscCBpbiByZWR1Y2luZyB0aGUgbmVl ZCBmb3IgcHJvcHJpZXRhcnkgbWVjaGFuaXNtcy4NCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBpZGVhIGJlaGluZCBkZXNj cmliaW5nIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIG1vZGVsIGFzIG91dCBvZiBzY29wZSwNCj4g cGFydGljdWxhcmx5IGFzIHRoZXkgcmVsYXRlIHRvIG1lYXN1cmVtZW50IHJlc3VsdHMsIHJlbGF0 ZXMgdGhlIHdvcmsgdGhhdA0KPiBpcyBjdXJyZW50bHkgZ29pbmcgb24gaW4gdGhlIOKAnFJlZ2lz dHJ5IG9mIFBlcmZvcm1hbmNlIE1ldHJpY3MgKFBNKeKAnSwNCj4gc29tZXRoaW5nIHRoZSBJUFBN IFdHIGlzIHRyeWluZyB0byBmaW5pc2guIE9uY2UgdGhhdCB3b3JrIGlzIGNvbXBsZXRlLA0KPiB0 aGlzIG1vZGVsIGNhbiBiZSBlbmhhbmNlZCBvciBhbm90aGVyIG9uZSB3cml0dGVuIHRvIHByb3Zp ZGUgdGhlIGRhdGENCj4gbmVlZGVkIGZvciBQTS4NClthY21dIA0KDQpPbmUgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlv biBvbiB0aGUgcmVzcG9uc2UgYWJvdmUuIFRoZSBUV0FNUCBtZWFzdXJlbWVudCBwcm90b2NvbA0K aXMgY29tcGxldGVseSBhZ25vc3RpYyB0byAqd2hhdCogbWV0cmljcyBhcmUgbWVhc3VyZWQsIGJ1 dCB3ZSBtYWRlIGFuIA0KZXhjZXB0aW9uIGluIG9uZSBjYXNlIHRvIHRha2UgYWR2YW50YWdlIG9m IG90aGVyIElQUE0gd29yayBvbiB0aGUgUE0gUmVnaXN0cnkuDQoNCkl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHN0cmFp Z2h0Zm9yd2FyZCB0byBidWlsZCBhbiBpbmRlcGVuZGVudCBtb2RlbCBmb3IgdGhlIHBlcmZvcm1h bmNlIA0KbWV0cmljcy9yZXN1bHRzIGluIGZ1dHVyZSwgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGUgcGFyYW1ldGVyIGFu ZCBvdXRwdXQgZm9ybWF0cyBhcmUgDQpoZWF2aWx5IHNwZWNpZmllZCBpbiB0aGUgUmVnaXN0cnkg bm93LCBhbmQgdGhhdCBtb2RlbCB3b3VsZCBiZSBhcHBsaWNhYmxlIA0KYmV5b25kIFRXQU1QIGFu ZCBhdmFpbGFibGUgZm9yIGFueSB1c2VycyBvZiB0aGUgUmVnaXN0cnkuDQoNCkFsDQoNCg0KLi4u DQo= From nobody Thu Jun 21 14:36:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32260130E25; 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([2601:647:4700:1280:1d96:fa8c:b9ff:6154]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m16-v6sm6991738pgu.67.2018.06.21.14.36.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <152958677666.31598.2871670854497240031.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:36:37 -0700 Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <767FDA55-D716-4005-9150-0C6AAD47CAB8@gmail.com> References: <152958677666.31598.2871670854497240031.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Alissa Cooper X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:36:41 -0000 Hi Alissa, > On Jun 21, 2018, at 6:12 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >=20 > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I support Adam's DISCUSS. Ok. Let me respond to that on the thread Adam has initiated. >=20 > Section 1.1: I'm surprised to see the two references to the = long-expired NFVRG > drafts. If a reference to describe virtualized infrastructure using > orchestration is really needed (I'm not convinced that it is), I would = assume a > better reference exists from outside the IETF/IRTF. I did a Google search for the topic of one of the drafts, and top hits = came from IEEE. But both the papers are available on a subscription = basis. What is the policy for quoting papers that are not publicly = available? To the question for the need to have a reference to virtualized = infrastructure, the authors are merely pointing out that the problem of = measurement is more acute because of scale. We are happy to drop the = reference.=20 Please advise.=20 >=20 > Section 5.2: >=20 > OLD > "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter > timestamps undetectably.' See also Section 4 of RFC 7717 > and Section 6 of RFC 4656." >=20 > NEW > "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter > timestamps undetectably' [Section 6 of RFC 4656]. See = also > Section 4 of RFC 7717.=E2=80=9D Will fix. Thanks. > Process comment more for the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version = of this > more than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally review = again > during IETF LC? >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Thu Jun 21 15:25:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87B8B1310EA; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:25:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rE9WzbVfmYLk; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x244.google.com (mail-yw0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 553B0131109; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x244.google.com with SMTP id k18-v6so1727204ywm.11; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:25:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=G8CcjlWkUp/UtYuethBbLgIRbS1QvTekCalTghjl7es=; b=pDH5LfwO1IApM9nS78dWsLDTSoefHXfQFKTpQuE0uNeZbE9/1924m980mb6vQZiDoO 0+DmweABvXsMXJri4HMAewNzLqlS2goqAemMS4BUY6JDqUQD5E7sQf4RETor+KCsHjZb HLfGlzZSEKg0F22c2uQsggGgdxpjMH2q+fAEddWQSDSMSLGc+U7SgaibYuCfSxJ9ZCsY zrpfSI8X6SmhXGrmDFrNrU9PBD/13o/NCxmiYYiwgmpT3FR4mYDDZUYTIsNA+6eUzMR/ pzBBLsuJmx8FNCPKMbsH5Yi4sa/Y9E+tFfzL4TnNBWRRQZWWnaUE/w+CrNnaF/hojCfI hvMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=G8CcjlWkUp/UtYuethBbLgIRbS1QvTekCalTghjl7es=; b=EpzVvD2t+TbCnStYatMmntjIvBuxR9OlUoj42GVRBv7tu6If2XiXT65pv4RkKiHO9p FSJFkfKjcdoOk5jNwodOMma7xmahBCkWb6ciHQxugzefyQK5ziVFMzjvSoy1U4hB/rvR GhUrMBGF1kZNFJHFcHTPe+kCjToUmMLpqExUfFDRcIXf0MDkEontTDbwtEbBxEgycuxp yATl0h42AUCQrWIKsxtIsjTmU+dtk/gl/YEcj6rzqahvCm4HxFeh3A6qswsMqYZ0GBLm 2/bq1Jiw+4LeoR1+UVGT0pnsGSfrRgQVWCabijX25j1QNSQDjZ2zNEIOBNIcJaesFf9q VwWA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0pFaxHXNxFJXK0dDuLrMa4Jh6a4Nx4cev7ETfwlOBri5FFL+0L Wv2yNsfVsRYPNbyhh+ZEqfogJB6GPsXQebKLNIZA6w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKKBA77MkCRuorhpDbXjvKJZg2PLciHwOnRcVqYqOJDTPycWjjHJLCOktQ3y1N2ucXqfk9M9/u8FHlJBP1POasc= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:fc46:: with SMTP id m67-v6mr13326651ywf.52.1529619904381; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:25:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <152950984681.28540.15458643208076088093.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 17:24:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Ignas Bagdonas , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, IESG , ippm@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000ac7e7056f2e634b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 22:25:08 -0000 --0000000000000ac7e7056f2e634b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not Ignas and can't answer whether these responses address his Discuss, but if I might make a couple of comments ... On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:46 PM Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Hi Ignas, > > > On Jun 20, 2018, at 8:50 AM, Ignas Bagdonas wrote: > > > > Ignas Bagdonas has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I have three large areas of questions related to this model. They are n= ot > > related to the contents of the module itself but to the broader scope o= f > where > > this model can and should fit in the overall context of practical > manageability > > and usability. > > > > 1. Operational state. Section 2 defines operational aspects of the > configured > > TWAMP mechanisms as being out of scope. How does that relate to the > motivation > > goals in section 1? Having no common machine readable mechanism for > retrieving > > measurement results and verifying the operation of measurement processe= s > does > > not seem to help in reducing the need for proprietary mechanisms. > > The idea behind describing operational part of the model as out of scope, > particularly as they relate to measurement results, relates the work that > is currently going on in the =E2=80=9CRegistry of Performance Metrics (PM= )=E2=80=9D, > something the IPPM WG is trying to finish. Once that work is complete, th= is > model can be enhanced or another one written to provide the data needed f= or > PM. > Somewhere between this response and Al's related response, I suspect it would be helpful to say this in the document, for readers who aren't specialists like you folks. > > > > > 2. What is the compatibility of this model with NMDA? > > This model is compatible with NMDA. > The IESG has been balloting on several YANG model revisions lately, because the original versions predated NMDA and needed to be updated to be compatible with NMDA. That turned out to be big enough to appear in the Abstract and Introduction - for example, in the protocol action for draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model-09.txt, you'll see RFC Editor Note: Please update first sentence of Abstract from: "This document defines a logical network element YANG module." to: This document defines a logical network element NMDA-compliant YANG module.= " and the first line of the Introduction from: "This document defines a YANG [RFC6020] module to support the creation of logical network elements on a network device. " to: "This document defines an NMDA-compliant YANG [RFC6020] module to support the creation of logical network elements on a network device. " This is to make sure the point is captured. Authors & RFC Editor are welcom= e to improve the text or change how the point is made. If you already did the work to make the model compatible with NMDA, the IESG seems to want people to take credit for having done the work ;-) I hope that's helpful, and not just in resolving Ignas's Discuss. Spencer > > > > > 3. Key storage. The document defines its own way of storing keys - whil= e > there > > are multiple existing ways to store keys (routing key-chain model, > I2NSF, IPsec > > model, netconf-keystore). Why yet another key storage mechanism is > required? > > What could be reused from other existing mechanisms? > > Precisely. When we started work on this draft, there were plethora of > ideas on how to store keys. We borrowed the idea from what is now the > ietf-key-chain module to define the key chain. And we followed the KISS > principle by incorporating what was absolutely needed by TWAMP. > > Having the answers for the three points that you have raised, would you > still have a DISCUSS. If so, which issue, do you want to see addressed? > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > RFC1305 is obsoleted by RFC5905. > > Updated. > > > > > A nit suggestion - YANG examples typically look more readable in JSON > encoding. > > I am reading this is more as a suggestion than as a nit. > > > > > IANA considerations section - likley the registrant contact should be > the IESG and not the IPPM WG? > > Will fix. > > Thanks. > > > > > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > --0000000000000ac7e7056f2e634b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not Ignas and can't answer whether these respo= nses address his Discuss, but if I might make a couple of comments ...
=
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:4= 6 PM Mahesh Jethanandani <mje= thanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ignas,

> On Jun 20, 2018, at 8:50 AM, Ignas Bagdonas <ibagdona@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ignas Bagdonas has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<= br> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> I have three large areas of questions related to this model. They are = not
> related to the contents of the module itself but to the broader scope = of where
> this model can and should fit in the overall context of practical mana= geability
> and usability.
>
> 1. Operational state. Section 2 defines operational aspects of the con= figured
> TWAMP mechanisms as being out of scope. How does that relate to the mo= tivation
> goals in section 1? Having no common machine readable mechanism for re= trieving
> measurement results and verifying the operation of measurement process= es does
> not seem to help in reducing the need for proprietary mechanisms.

The idea behind describing operational part of the model as out of scope, p= articularly as they relate to measurement results, relates the work that is= currently going on in the =E2=80=9CRegistry of Performance Metrics (PM)=E2= =80=9D, something the IPPM WG is trying to finish. Once that work is comple= te, this model can be enhanced or another one written to provide the data n= eeded for PM.

Somewhere between this re= sponse and Al's related response, I suspect it would be helpful to say = this in the document, for readers who aren't specialists like you folks= .
=C2=A0

>
> 2. What is the compatibility of this model with NMDA?

This model is compatible with NMDA.

The= IESG has been balloting on several YANG model revisions lately, because th= e original versions predated NMDA and needed to be updated to be compatible= with NMDA. That turned out to be big enough to appear in the Abstract and = Introduction - for example, in the protocol action for draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne= -model-09.txt, you'll see

RFC Editor Note:

Please up= date first sentence of Abstract from:

"This d= ocument defines a logical network element YANG module."
to:<= /div>
This document defines a logical network element NMDA-compliant YA= NG module."

and the first line of the Introdu= ction from:

"This document defines a YANG [RF= C6020] module to support the creation
of logical network elements= on a network device. "
to:
"This document de= fines an NMDA-compliant YANG [RFC6020] module to support the
crea= tion of logical network elements on a network device. "

=
This is to make sure the point is captured. Authors & RFC Ed= itor are welcome
to improve the text or change how the point is m= ade.

If you already did = the work to make the model compatible with NMDA, the IESG seems to want peo= ple to take credit for having done the work ;-)

I hope t= hat's helpful, and not just in resolving Ignas's Discuss.=C2=A0

Spencer
=C2= =A0

>
> 3. Key storage. The document defines its own way of storing keys - whi= le there
> are multiple existing ways to store keys (routing key-chain model, I2N= SF, IPsec
> model, netconf-keystore). Why yet another key storage mechanism is req= uired?
> What could be reused from other existing mechanisms?

Precisely. When we started work on this draft, there were plethora of ideas= on how to store keys. We borrowed the idea from what is now the ietf-key-c= hain module to define the key chain. And we followed the KISS principle by = incorporating what was absolutely needed by TWAMP.

Having the answers for the three points that you have raised, would you sti= ll have a DISCUSS. If so, which issue, do you want to see addressed?

>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> RFC1305 is obsoleted by RFC5905.

Updated.

>
> A nit suggestion - YANG examples typically look more readable in JSON = encoding.

I am reading this is more as a suggestion than as a nit.

>
> IANA considerations section - likley the registrant contact should be = the IESG and not the IPPM WG?

Will fix.

Thanks.

>
>

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@= gmail.com

--0000000000000ac7e7056f2e634b-- From nobody Thu Jun 21 15:57:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF1DB131125; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:57:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-1kqKQ7ohBr; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x243.google.com (mail-pl0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AD75131124; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x243.google.com with SMTP id w8-v6so2441345ply.8; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:57:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=UmHfwjcnfBEkXdny81yD2ESVwEFwhC+we49nkAmG+qo=; b=h+IrwFjGSgkPuxEGr+Vq+gi9EHBV335BEiRrfG51kTt/r9EQiHfrHEgQC1/HozsIDG /8Gq6qsasmIJXh5/l6zcZDpwyAeExPFogUBcBKUM2STUCgniotLB8eA8/GsgBbSGE7ze 6tXC+s7Dw1IKEuMydKpx3tDcrCFfX0z596fmXdbfBV1jkHoKrAEKHC20U4aEIkNPlZGZ 3ZqrEkQuAbalPKYIRe3l4Q3y0nwVuUhuMOZxQ/F8vfgziXB3ZdUMhQKbw9uv/IE0cg/r 3P4D6ojLJ6Kq2K+C6nEY1dY8M3VhUX7OjaWjHpEutVRy7/RS3IhNw+LlHiW2StkGv4Qx E18A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=UmHfwjcnfBEkXdny81yD2ESVwEFwhC+we49nkAmG+qo=; b=iems2M/HrCu1ewL/taxmwRxAlNBJPwuEf+ez+00Jn1Lo3qBmul99FiqUeSx14jps59 MiPOuTZx+JL1isPZ+Ipt2y1K0vjXwoMTWPRC5Psz8cJ7xg25GaJQku8X4sGEC50FN0wm jvSdfa5Rgzsw3IPTLKijfWP70f94MdviKYaT7XX0c1TK/wOWRQDLfgVyJbCxRVFlm3AY B05bvOEtEXsGuL8nV5xRq/YEriQ31W7HeEhQqJ3s9u7gYquKghHIFLtjr972mTipWTTP Myzyp+tYMMNQGUnWztbDiwADezYYGYWpbaaR+gWlAcLvNi6uSlnLKrqdLYOvsQNnSLII c5JQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0zVtQYmjiV/0OPG9ZyzzdzhWrvqjOtIUc9h3fYRZ5K+/Ot3ql4 ggosy8uKh9SmY7AMUuaMGxo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLzt0QZvRcGHAd+zv1OoiodbH3QcECRmGf0vqGGWzXirl3Gw9D9br03y59SPm2YEXn9hExwSQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:70ca:: with SMTP id l10-v6mr17442790plt.174.1529621835059; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:1d96:fa8c:b9ff:6154? ([2601:647:4700:1280:1d96:fa8c:b9ff:6154]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i4-v6sm9090915pfk.133.2018.06.21.15.57.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:57:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <3CC9A793-172A-43F7-9AED-A9AF88DE3D50@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1AAA8D6B-CB89-45A5-9B43-BC72D8CC51B5" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:57:11 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Ignas Bagdonas , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, The IESG , ippm@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF References: <152950984681.28540.15458643208076088093.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 22:57:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1AAA8D6B-CB89-45A5-9B43-BC72D8CC51B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Spencer, See inline. > On Jun 21, 2018, at 3:24 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF = wrote: >=20 > I'm not Ignas and can't answer whether these responses address his = Discuss, but if I might make a couple of comments ... >=20 > On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:46 PM Mahesh Jethanandani = > wrote: > Hi Ignas, >=20 > > On Jun 20, 2018, at 8:50 AM, Ignas Bagdonas > wrote: > >=20 > > Ignas Bagdonas has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss > >=20 > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to = all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > >=20 > >=20 > > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html = > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > >=20 > >=20 > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ = > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >=20 > > I have three large areas of questions related to this model. They = are not > > related to the contents of the module itself but to the broader = scope of where > > this model can and should fit in the overall context of practical = manageability > > and usability. > >=20 > > 1. Operational state. Section 2 defines operational aspects of the = configured > > TWAMP mechanisms as being out of scope. How does that relate to the = motivation > > goals in section 1? Having no common machine readable mechanism for = retrieving > > measurement results and verifying the operation of measurement = processes does > > not seem to help in reducing the need for proprietary mechanisms. >=20 > The idea behind describing operational part of the model as out of = scope, particularly as they relate to measurement results, relates the = work that is currently going on in the =E2=80=9CRegistry of Performance = Metrics (PM)=E2=80=9D, something the IPPM WG is trying to finish. Once = that work is complete, this model can be enhanced or another one written = to provide the data needed for PM. >=20 > Somewhere between this response and Al's related response, I suspect = it would be helpful to say this in the document, for readers who aren't = specialists like you folks. Ok. Have added the following text: "In addition, for operational state, current work in Registry for = Performance Metrics[I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry], can be used to = develop an independent model for the performance metrics that need to be = captured and retrieved." > =20 >=20 > >=20 > > 2. What is the compatibility of this model with NMDA? >=20 > This model is compatible with NMDA. >=20 > The IESG has been balloting on several YANG model revisions lately, = because the original versions predated NMDA and needed to be updated to = be compatible with NMDA. That turned out to be big enough to appear in = the Abstract and Introduction - for example, in the protocol action for = draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model-09.txt, you'll see >=20 > RFC Editor Note: >=20 > Please update first sentence of Abstract from: >=20 > "This document defines a logical network element YANG module." > to: > This document defines a logical network element NMDA-compliant YANG = module." >=20 > and the first line of the Introduction from: >=20 > "This document defines a YANG [RFC6020] module to support the creation > of logical network elements on a network device. " > to: > "This document defines an NMDA-compliant YANG [RFC6020] module to = support the > creation of logical network elements on a network device. " >=20 > This is to make sure the point is captured. Authors & RFC Editor are = welcome > to improve the text or change how the point is made. >=20 > If you already did the work to make the model compatible with NMDA, = the IESG seems to want people to take credit for having done the work = ;-) Have updated Abstract to say: =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 and formally specifies it with a NDMA-compliant YANG = model=E2=80=9D and Introduction to say: "This document addresses this gap by formally specifying a = NMDA[RFC8342]-complaint TWAMP data model using YANG 1.1 [RFC7950]." >=20 > I hope that's helpful, and not just in resolving Ignas's Discuss.=20 It is. Thanks. >=20 > Spencer > =20 >=20 > >=20 > > 3. Key storage. The document defines its own way of storing keys - = while there > > are multiple existing ways to store keys (routing key-chain model, = I2NSF, IPsec > > model, netconf-keystore). Why yet another key storage mechanism is = required? > > What could be reused from other existing mechanisms? >=20 > Precisely. When we started work on this draft, there were plethora of = ideas on how to store keys. We borrowed the idea from what is now the = ietf-key-chain module to define the key chain. And we followed the KISS = principle by incorporating what was absolutely needed by TWAMP. >=20 > Having the answers for the three points that you have raised, would = you still have a DISCUSS. If so, which issue, do you want to see = addressed? >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >=20 > > RFC1305 is obsoleted by RFC5905. >=20 > Updated. >=20 > >=20 > > A nit suggestion - YANG examples typically look more readable in = JSON encoding. >=20 > I am reading this is more as a suggestion than as a nit. >=20 > >=20 > > IANA considerations section - likley the registrant contact should = be the IESG and not the IPPM WG? >=20 > Will fix. >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_1AAA8D6B-CB89-45A5-9B43-BC72D8CC51B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Spencer,

See = inline.

On Jun 21, 2018, at 3:24 PM, Spencer Dawkins = at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not Ignas and can't answer whether these responses = address his Discuss, but if I might make a couple of comments ...

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:46 PM Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ignas,

> On Jun 20, 2018, at 8:50 AM, Ignas Bagdonas <ibagdona@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ignas Bagdonas has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to = all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found = here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/
>
>
>
> = ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> = ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have three large areas of questions related to this model. They = are not
> related to the contents of the module itself but to the broader = scope of where
> this model can and should fit in the overall context of practical = manageability
> and usability.
>
> 1. Operational state. Section 2 defines operational aspects of the = configured
> TWAMP mechanisms as being out of scope. How does that relate to the = motivation
> goals in section 1? Having no common machine readable mechanism for = retrieving
> measurement results and verifying the operation of measurement = processes does
> not seem to help in reducing the need for proprietary = mechanisms.

The idea behind describing operational part of the model as out of = scope, particularly as they relate to measurement results, relates the = work that is currently going on in the =E2=80=9CRegistry of Performance = Metrics (PM)=E2=80=9D, something the IPPM WG is trying to finish. Once = that work is complete, this model can be enhanced or another one written = to provide the data needed for PM.

Somewhere between this = response and Al's related response, I suspect it would be helpful to say = this in the document, for readers who aren't specialists like you = folks.

Ok. Have added the following text:


 

>
> 2. What is the compatibility of this model with NMDA?

This model is compatible with NMDA.

The IESG has been = balloting on several YANG model revisions lately, because the original = versions predated NMDA and needed to be updated to be compatible with = NMDA. That turned out to be big enough to appear in the Abstract and = Introduction - for example, in the protocol action for = draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model-09.txt, you'll see

RFC Editor = Note:

Please = update first sentence of Abstract from:

"This document defines a logical = network element YANG module."
to:
This document defines a logical network element = NMDA-compliant YANG module."

and the first line of the Introduction = from:

"This = document defines a YANG [RFC6020] module to support the = creation
of logical network elements on a network = device. "
to:
"This document = defines an NMDA-compliant YANG [RFC6020] module to support the
creation of logical network elements on a network device. = "

This is to = make sure the point is captured. Authors & RFC Editor are = welcome
to improve the text or change how the point = is made.

If you already did the work to = make the model compatible with NMDA, the IESG seems to want people to = take credit for having done the work = ;-)

Have updated = Abstract to say:




It = is.



Spencer
 

>
> 3. Key storage. The document defines its own way of storing keys - = while there
> are multiple existing ways to store keys (routing key-chain model, = I2NSF, IPsec
> model, netconf-keystore). Why yet another key storage mechanism is = required?
> What could be reused from other existing mechanisms?

Precisely. When we started work on this draft, there were plethora of = ideas on how to store keys. We borrowed the idea from what is now the = ietf-key-chain module to define the key chain. And we followed the KISS = principle by incorporating what was absolutely needed by TWAMP.

Having the answers for the three points that you have raised, would you = still have a DISCUSS. If so, which issue, do you want to see = addressed?

>
>
> = ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> = ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> RFC1305 is obsoleted by RFC5905.

Updated.

>
> A nit suggestion - YANG examples typically look more readable in = JSON encoding.

I am reading this is more as a suggestion than as a nit.

>
> IANA considerations section - likley the registrant contact should = be the IESG and not the IPPM WG?

Will fix.

Thanks.

>
>

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com


Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

= --Apple-Mail=_1AAA8D6B-CB89-45A5-9B43-BC72D8CC51B5-- From nobody Thu Jun 21 22:44:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7018F130DEA; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 22:44:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yNA7tGmzCM1G; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 22:44:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb0-x22c.google.com (mail-yb0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97499130DDE; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 22:44:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id m199-v6so2112698ybm.9; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 22:44:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NsNGMc5jBTaKl+my9Wms69tWvIdJGjMt9hc3WbnTMtE=; b=vbr1rHjJSLm+PiI/xRQ5rK02IHsu4i9WOJcYy8xu8MMqiGwe6TyYhJceoVefkSnK9/ rAvGTLTGketLHSRzIuWe69p8oaGrCUMEGxdLv5pABCR45zkUQ0GG/mfxaDUKp0WWhEVt M/wjmC3PpTLZ8a1uwkozuWC+CExdCx7QOaER/8ajurxDjaDkUWfkCVb35iO65Aly+AwZ NAxZxQUxOWoEYACURwRysAYq3Tm3rYSV2St1wzaW2M6E/aENFo1xBirZZE9k7LPFNCfU RoL16Ki80fEJ6Eys4CFPI1wtd6hY086COTFZ1wK81vglRcsFR7U3JV/YKEdvyWY2VlRl C22A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NsNGMc5jBTaKl+my9Wms69tWvIdJGjMt9hc3WbnTMtE=; b=Sry4s6ZhauYwrmQOndIPdwGJSku17qZX4EaZwGJK+ySt4Y/3uzL6otL/8ULxN6Bx58 A5SxLbEwQlz/BMiW9+PvBqfTuhgJy93sQmEwvMFw+e+VWLwL3Jla6hEEPUKc2eVzF9KQ xV6xyhUYFsJr6/cQ4EV7oUTAWmWbpP2aX9BiNamqQiXCi5NynclbXRGV2RRHM3x7gZkl ZeklqNUOPQ25JNEFpNYeA7SK8swTHY0MwVHcX6Nzz/16G3zmQfEzKxkI1h8RNUuELtYY iLDKSDWTB29g15sKAwaMwBLXimcenee/b/xUsmLq8VGxKwnTUfEYgKwX4hsTOwEK8/cd nVNw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2dFuNNL2IzZ9TUd9foH4FbCFKiv+rpMrZ3jCh0a+U1cFpTbpa8 e8LFicX+gvvY5vACDbgDZZUC6oQw49WM2QHnNto= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKIMDsVaNc2sHmWoBk70K/VLfnRUwyQlZa/ynoN1ijIuc0AeJk4eyEtBFxEMNV6DlsioSug4gQ2dtzV5lcTVhOk= X-Received: by 2002:a25:7743:: with SMTP id s64-v6mr84821ybc.235.1529646285475; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 22:44:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 00:44:33 -0500 Message-ID: To: Mirja Kuehlewind Cc: ippm@ietf.org, ippm-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007a574d056f3487b5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New responsible AD and new co-chair! X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 05:44:49 -0000 --0000000000007a574d056f3487b5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 10:21 AM Mirja K=C3=BChlewind < mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch> wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I would like to do a couple of announcements: > > First of all a big thanks to Spencer for serving as the responsible AD > for IPPM for the last five years! > > We re-assigned this working group to balance out the load between the > ADs. So I'm happy to serve as your responsible ADs from now on! > I should say out loud that IPPM has produced a lot of good work that I've had the privilege of shepherding through to publication, and AD Evaluation has consistently been a good experience for me. Thank you all for that, and please pamper Mirja as much as you have pampered me! > The other announcement is that Tommy Pauly agreed to serve as an > additional co-chair for IPPM. Welcome Tommy and thanks for serving! > I want to add my thanks to Tommy for being willing to serve. Best of wishes to you, in this new responsibility. Spencer > Mirja > --0000000000007a574d056f3487b5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu= , Jun 21, 2018 at 10:21 AM Mirja K=C3=BChlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch> wrote:<= br>
Hello everybody,

I would like to do a couple of announcements:

First of all a big thanks to Spencer for serving as the responsible AD
for IPPM for the last five years!

We re-assigned this working group to balance out the load between the
ADs. So I'm happy to serve as your responsible ADs from now on!

I should say out loud that IPPM has produced a= lot of good work that I've had the privilege of shepherding through to= publication, and AD Evaluation has consistently been a good experience for= me. Thank you all for that, and please pamper Mirja as much as you have pa= mpered me!
=C2=A0
The other a= nnouncement is that Tommy Pauly agreed to serve as an
additional co-chair for IPPM. Welcome Tommy and thanks for serving!

I want to add my thanks to Tommy for being wil= ling to serve. Best of wishes to you, in this new responsibility.

Spencer
=C2=A0
Subject: Re: [ippm] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 05:56:01 -0000 --00000000000080695c056f34af33 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Mahesh, On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 4:36 PM Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Hi Alissa, > > > On Jun 21, 2018, at 6:12 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: > > > > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I support Adam's DISCUSS. > > Ok. Let me respond to that on the thread Adam has initiated. > > > > > Section 1.1: I'm surprised to see the two references to the long-expire= d > NFVRG > > drafts. If a reference to describe virtualized infrastructure using > > orchestration is really needed (I'm not convinced that it is), I would > assume a > > better reference exists from outside the IETF/IRTF. > > I did a Google search for the topic of one of the drafts, and top hits > came from IEEE. But both the papers are available on a subscription basis= . > What is the policy for quoting papers that are not publicly available? > I think the key points here are that you should provide the best references that you can, and provide the most stable pointers you can come up with for those references. I don't believe we require that references be available at no cost, only that the cost of obtaining them should be reasonable. IIRC, Russ Housley told me about a standard somewhere in the medical space that was $40K US per copy. We didn't think that was reasonable, but we thought that some amount of cost could be reasonable. Spencer > To the question for the need to have a reference to virtualized > infrastructure, the authors are merely pointing out that the problem of > measurement is more acute because of scale. We are happy to drop the > reference. > > Please advise. > > > > > Section 5.2: > > > > OLD > > "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter > > timestamps undetectably.' See also Section 4 of RFC 7717 > > and Section 6 of RFC 4656." > > > > NEW > > "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter > > timestamps undetectably' [Section 6 of RFC 4656]. See also > > Section 4 of RFC 7717.=E2=80=9D > > Will fix. > > Thanks. > > > Process comment more for the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version of > this > > more than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally review aga= in > > during IETF LC? > > > > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > --00000000000080695c056f34af33 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Mahesh,

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 4:36 PM Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Alissa,

> On Jun 21, 2018, at 6:12 AM, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> wrote:
>
> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<= br> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> I support Adam's DISCUSS.

Ok. Let me respond to that on the thread Adam has initiated.

>
> Section 1.1: I'm surprised to see the two references to the long-e= xpired NFVRG
> drafts. If a reference to describe virtualized infrastructure using > orchestration is really needed (I'm not convinced that it is), I w= ould assume a
> better reference exists from outside the IETF/IRTF.

I did a Google search for the topic of one of the drafts, and top hits came= from IEEE. But both the papers are available on a subscription basis. What= is the policy for quoting papers that are not publicly available?

I think the key points here are that you should= provide the best references that you can, and provide the most stable poin= ters you can come up with for those references.

I = don't believe we require that references be available at no cost, only = that the cost of obtaining them should be reasonable.=C2=A0

<= /div>
IIRC, Russ Housley told me about a standard somewhere in the medi= cal space that was $40K US per copy. We didn't think that was reasonabl= e, but we thought that some amount of cost could be reasonable.
<= br>
Spencer
=C2=A0
= To the question for the need to have a reference to virtualized infrastruct= ure, the authors are merely pointing out that the problem of measurement is= more acute because of scale. We are happy to drop the reference.

Please advise.

>
> Section 5.2:
>
> OLD
> "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 timestamps undetectabl= y.' See also Section 4 of RFC 7717
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and Section 6 of RFC 4= 656."
>
> NEW
> "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 timestamps undetectabl= y' [Section 6 of RFC 4656]. See also
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 4 of RFC 7717.= =E2=80=9D

Will fix.

Thanks.

> Process comment more for the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version o= f this
> more than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally review ag= ain
> during IETF LC?
>
>

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@= gmail.com

--00000000000080695c056f34af33-- From nobody Fri Jun 22 06:19:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156C7130E58; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 06:19:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=GeUz5wAp; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=QLjxvHVg Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZSTQcxJf8GV4; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 06:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAB18130E52; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 06:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6346721B5A; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:19:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-type:date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm3; bh=Hj2HfciaFEg26fUnfJEqrmU0OctBrxuapD0B6gK8Nls=; b=GeUz5wAp iR4VuW8YuWaXH4tlDwKZnmH1wx2LtetLY6bBr6SiAGZCT2YIk4am57noEno53CMZ 3iqTK+TpsD50U4v0ApnBI8y9gQT/Vm1JWjVK3A5uaW70JGxfW9OJWAYpwK8lPTfO 1DpaqhKvKPlJdh+/7TKe+7cFtzERxSPuMYwDHjQqFeUUIzJCrRiEzDFCquBHdKqf mdyzRej6ulItNkpfTeRZcq+Nto6so4HfKXsRhQDhJWf0kjP7TYRtlwLBZaTjclY6 jDI1gxXxauyw2FaQ9WgN+3kibTi4sv1XgBIPNDVMv+ofDY0QVaYxt8lxmQwksQlL WZVBooK2A5dzwQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=Hj2HfciaFEg26fUnfJEqrmU0OctBr xuapD0B6gK8Nls=; b=QLjxvHVg1R49UZQHU0vMosR0DgM+H8mxrNcpdM3ko365S pmahuS/L7ch9zZhObtkMmKX8IGuXUa9vqBXn7sKkhBOvQ1KyH0fCHGg0O7sDudVI VzDn3nQnGjzZcxdPqgKELB40tfAtDFtwjS617y4epUJhWEhwZwj+FnkmiJLCmyUy H+Q42vA4N5rHeGtHbotVd6b/6K7YGK5CS8soAvNZVUCBAcItCzxjKiflPLtsCS+6 ns86H6kGRQQ9qGeJBNss7mNayiZps0Q4+PCdG53/yeTtn4HntWDnAIGqYBKjWJHl 3k+lbU+nLav7870nrAEaGXLiNlgg1LAxjTqNRUJsw== X-ME-Proxy: X-ME-Sender: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.75]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id ADBFF10252; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_76FA4806-BBBA-4443-AAC9-91FEFA4C8BE4" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <767FDA55-D716-4005-9150-0C6AAD47CAB8@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:19:11 -0400 Cc: IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Message-Id: <6F023FC8-107C-4B02-94E4-8249F665D604@cooperw.in> References: <152958677666.31598.2871670854497240031.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <767FDA55-D716-4005-9150-0C6AAD47CAB8@gmail.com> To: Mahesh Jethanandani X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 13:19:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_76FA4806-BBBA-4443-AAC9-91FEFA4C8BE4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jun 21, 2018, at 5:36 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani = wrote: >=20 > Hi Alissa, >=20 >> On Jun 21, 2018, at 6:12 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>=20 >> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> I support Adam's DISCUSS. >=20 > Ok. Let me respond to that on the thread Adam has initiated. >=20 >>=20 >> Section 1.1: I'm surprised to see the two references to the = long-expired NFVRG >> drafts. If a reference to describe virtualized infrastructure using >> orchestration is really needed (I'm not convinced that it is), I = would assume a >> better reference exists from outside the IETF/IRTF. >=20 > I did a Google search for the topic of one of the drafts, and top hits = came from IEEE. But both the papers are available on a subscription = basis. What is the policy for quoting papers that are not publicly = available? >=20 > To the question for the need to have a reference to virtualized = infrastructure, the authors are merely pointing out that the problem of = measurement is more acute because of scale. We are happy to drop the = reference.=20 >=20 > Please advise.=20 I think dropping the references is preferable. Thanks, Alissa >=20 >>=20 >> Section 5.2: >>=20 >> OLD >> "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter >> timestamps undetectably.' See also Section 4 of RFC 7717 >> and Section 6 of RFC 4656." >>=20 >> NEW >> "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter >> timestamps undetectably' [Section 6 of RFC 4656]. See = also >> Section 4 of RFC 7717.=E2=80=9D >=20 > Will fix. >=20 > Thanks. >=20 >> Process comment more for the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version = of this >> more than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally review = again >> during IETF LC? >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_76FA4806-BBBA-4443-AAC9-91FEFA4C8BE4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Jun 21, 2018, at 5:36 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Alissa,

On Jun = 21, 2018, at 6:12 AM, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> = wrote:

Alissa Cooper has entered the = following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11:= No Objection

When responding, please keep = the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses = included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htmlfor more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT = positions.


The document, = along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/



---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
COMMENT:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

I support Adam's DISCUSS.

Ok. Let me respond to that on the thread Adam = has initiated.


Section 1.1: = I'm surprised to see the two references to the long-expired NFVRG
drafts. If a reference to describe virtualized infrastructure = using
orchestration is really needed (I'm not convinced = that it is), I would assume a
better reference exists from = outside the IETF/IRTF.

I did a Google = search for the topic of one of the drafts, and top hits came from IEEE. = But both the papers are available on a subscription basis. What is the = policy for quoting papers that are not publicly available?

To the question for the need to have a = reference to virtualized infrastructure, the authors are merely pointing = out that the problem of measurement is more acute because of scale. We = are happy to drop the reference. 

Please advise. 





Section = 5.2:

OLD
"Encrypted mode = 'makes it impossible to alter
          &nb= sp; timestamps undetectably.' See also Section 4 of RFC 7717
          &nb= sp; and Section 6 of RFC 4656."

NEW
"Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter
          &nb= sp; timestamps undetectably' [Section 6 of RFC 4656]. See also
          &nb= sp; Section 4 of RFC 7717.=E2=80=9D

Will fix.

Thanks.

Process = comment more for the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version of this
more than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally = review again
during IETF LC?



Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

= --Apple-Mail=_76FA4806-BBBA-4443-AAC9-91FEFA4C8BE4-- From nobody Fri Jun 22 08:15:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC20130E94; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:15:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U_JzkmmVBUEs; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu [18.7.68.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4C37130E90; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:15:08 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074424-82dff700000063d9-1b-5b2d127b4e7b Received: from mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.39]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 77.9F.25561.B721D2B5; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 11:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w5MFF6l4023696; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 11:15:06 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w5MFF12a004837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 22 Jun 2018 11:15:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:15:01 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180622151458.GE64617@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <152933869439.3647.15290297683322606646.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <3A3BEE09-40B0-4006-A404-6933081C9A19@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <3A3BEE09-40B0-4006-A404-6933081C9A19@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprDKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixG6nrlstpBttsH+zpsWtIw2MFjP+TGS2 WL2jm82i58E7ZovTb9axWXw+eYnRgc1j56y77B5Llvxk8tgy4xZTAHMUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0C V8aM/8eZC57kVGzY1MjYwDg/uIuRk0NCwERiZ9d9ti5GLg4hgcVMEjOv/WaHcDYySkx9vYgZ pEpI4CqTxP+zHiA2i4CqxNbZ11lBbDYBFYmG7stgNSIChhKnDrxgAmlmFljFKHGl9xdQEQeH sECsxLxJ3CA1vEDbzrz4ywSxoIFR4siEw4wQCUGJkzOfsIDYzALqEn/mXWIG6WUWkJZY/o8D Iiwv0bx1NtguTgFbicOzd4GViwooS+ztO8Q+gVFwFpJJs5BMmoUwaRaSSQsYWVYxyqbkVunm JmbmFKcm6xYnJ+blpRbpmuvlZpbopaaUbmIER4KLyg7G7h7vQ4wCHIxKPLwaX3WihVgTy4or cw8xSnIwKYny3qwACvEl5adUZiQWZ8QXleakFh9ilOBgVhLhdXsKlONNSaysSi3Kh0lJc7Ao ifPmLmKMFhJITyxJzU5NLUgtgsnKcHAoSfDOEtSNFhIsSk1PrUjLzClBSDNxcIIM5wEaXg5S w1tckJhbnJkOkT/FqCglztsHkhAASWSU5sH1ghKVRPb+mleM4kCvCPO2gFTxAJMcXPcroMFM QIOrm7VABpckIqSkGhiznPP+OhtW84ls/7/h76ScL1+W/bfX2tmd7yPtsWCCQHfQktfPThrO a/7L2jpp1dtzBYe4VobuUNKI/1RwT9P899+mc2VR3y9KPi+cnGSfNLE4bI9B1rwaC1amooD0 pnQ395SbwoVNL8qkdSY/XJQeMeFxScfpqVcOiReube6bkMK7LuLy4fVKLMUZiYZazEXFiQBm /RnjLwMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:15:12 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 06:55:23PM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Hi Ben, > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > > > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Perhaps I am confused and/or misreading things, but the descriptions > > of the control-client and session-reflector include discussion of > > 'sid' session identifiers as if they were always used, but the mode > > bitmap includes a separate bit for negotiation of > > 'individual-session-control' for session identifier usage. Is there > > some conflict between this mandatory/negotiable distinction, or are > > they actually talking about different things? > > I believe Al has responded on this issue already. > > > > > Comments below in document order, but please pay special note to the > > (potential) need for global uniqueness of key-ids, the PBKDF2 > > iteration count, and the list of sensitive nodes to call out in the > > security considerations. > > > > > > Section 3.1 > > > > o Authentication and encryption attributes such as KeyID, Token and > > the Client Initialization Vector (Client-IV); see also the last > > paragraph of Section 6 in OWAMP [RFC4656] and Randomness > > Requirements for Security [RFC4086]. > > > > I'm confused about what the RFC4656 reference is intended to call > > out -- the reliance on AES to be resistant to chosen plaintext, or > > the randomly generated challenge from the server, or the existential > > forgeries? > > The reference should have been to Section 3.1 of RFC4656. To be clear, to all of Section 3.1, not just the last paragraph? > > > > o Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the test > > starting time, which performance metric is to be used Registry for > > Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry], or whether > > the test should be repeated. > > > > Is there something missing before or around "Registry for > > Performance Metrics"? The current text is hard to read. > > Agree. How about this: > > OLD > Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the test > starting time, which performance metric is to be used Registry for > Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry ], or whether > the test should be repeated. > > > NEW > Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the test > starting time, which performance metric is to be used, as defined in Registry for > Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry ], or whether > the test should be repeated. Much better! > > > > > Section 3.4 > > > > Each Session-Reflector is associated with zero or more TWAMP-Test > > sessions. For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which > > determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been > > received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2) can be configured. > > > > nit: I think this would be easier to read if "which > > determines...received" was offset by commas or parentheses. > > How about this: > > OLD > For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which > determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been > received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2 ) can be configured. > > > NEW > For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter can be configured, which > determines whether to discontinue the session, if no packets have been > received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2 ). I'm not sure this is quite right -- the clause offset by commas starting with "which" is supposed to be a "parenthetical", a clause adding some additional information that is not necessary to understand the sentence. That is, the sentence is still supposed to read fine if the entire clause (and commas) are removed. But "the REFWAIT timeout parameter can be configured if no packets have been received" seems like a different meaning than is intended. > > > > > > Read-only access to other data model parameters, such as the Sender > > IP address is foreseen. Each test session can be uniquely identified > > by the 4-tuple mentioned in Section 3.2. > > > > Nit: comma after "Sender IP address”. > > Ok. > > > > > Section 4.1 > > > > [...] Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the > > mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned > > integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent integers > > increase by one. > > > > I thought I remembered some discussion about this text being unclear > > and removing "and subsequent integers increase by one" being > > proposed. But I don't see that discussion in an obvious place, so > > maybe it was on a different document. > > You do have a good memory. It was for this document. See the discussion on the other thread with Pete, where this has come up and edits proposed. I think I remember those going by and looking good. > > > > Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit position > > combinations when necessary, such as when referring to the extended > > [...] > > > > Maybe "may set multiple bits independently" would be more clear? > > But it seems that some bit combinations don't make any sense, like > > unauthenticated+authenticated -- is there need for more expository > > text here? > > How about: > > OLD: > Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit position > combinations when necessary, such as when referring to the extended > TWAMP features in [RFC5618 ], [RFC5938 ], [RFC6038 ], and [RFC7717 ]. If > the Control-Client cannot determine an acceptable Mode, it MUST > respond with zero Mode bits set in the Set-up Response message, > indicating it will not continue with the control connection. > > > > NEW: > Note that the list of preferred Modes may set multiple bit position > independently, such as when referring to the extended > TWAMP features in [RFC5618 ], [RFC5938 ], [RFC6038 ], and [RFC7717 ]. If > the Control-Client cannot determine an acceptable Mode, or when the > bit combinations do not make sense, e.g. both authenticated and > unauthenticated bit set, it MUST respond with zero Mode bits set > in the Set-up Response message, indicating it will not continue with > the control connection. That looks good. (But put a comma after "e.g." as well as before.) > > > > [...] The secret-key is the shared secret, a sequence > > of octets of arbitrary length whose interpretation is unspecified. > > The key-id and secret-key encoding SHOULD follow Section 9.4 of YANG > > [RFC7950]. [...] > > > > Section 9.4 of YANG is for (printable) strings, but the secret-key > > is binary -- should this get a Section 9.8 reference as well? > > I'm also not sure that leaving it as "arbitrary length" > > is great -- if we're using it to derive 16-byte AES keys and 32-byte > > HMAC-SHA1 keys, we could at least say "SHOULD contain at least 128 > > bits of entropy”. > > This was my bad. I changed the text for the secret-key from string to binary in the YANG model, at the behest of Tom Petch, but forgot to update this text. I can update the reference to Section 9.8 of RFC7950. Will add text around the 128 bits of entropy. Ah, okay. (I had originally put in a lot more text about this before I noticed that he rest of the document had the key as binary, and it was why I was looking so closely at the base64 encoding later on.) > > > > Section 4.2 > > > > [...] The Server, being prepared to conduct > > sessions with more than one Control-Client, uses KeyIDs to choose the > > appropriate secret-key; a Control-Client would typically have > > different secret keys for different Servers. key-id tells the Server > > which shared-secret the Control-Client wishes to use for > > authentication or encryption. > > > > Does this imply a global uniqueness requirement for key-ids? If so, > > that should be called out more clearly. > > Section 4.1 says. Do you think this is clear enough? > > Both the Server and > the Control-Client use the same mappings from KeyIDs to shared > secrets (key-id and secret-key in Figure 3, respectively) I'd prefer to have it also say explicitly that they must be unique, as in something like NEW: Both the Server and the Control-Client use the same mappings from KeyIDs to shared secrets (key-id and secret-key in Figure 3, respectively); in order for this to work properly, KeyIds must be unique across all systems in the administrative domain. > > > > Section 4.3 > > > > | name | > > | ctrl-connection-name {ro} | > > | fill-mode | > > | number-of-packets | > > | state {ro} | > > | sent-packets {ro} | > > | rcv-packets {ro} | > > | last-sent-seq {ro} | > > | last-rcv-seq {ro} | > > +---------------------------+ > > > > nit: should the "{ro}" on "state" be right-aligned with the others? > > Ok. > > > > > Is there any privacy concern about exposing the parent-connection > > 4-tuple? > > As discussed in the other thread, the test is run between the four logical entities within the same provider network. That combined with the security of the session, and use of access control (NACM) can limit how much is exposed and what they can do with that information. > > > > > Section 5.2 > > > > In the 'count' leaf, a default value of 10 (corresponding to an > > iteration count of 2^10 == 1024 for PBKDF2) is described. This > > seems quite low for a PBKDF2 iteration count, by modern standards. > > In "normal" cryptographic protocols we would generally be using a > > default closer to 32768 == 2^15 (which I see is the default *max* > > count value, and there is additional discussion of the issue in the > > leaf description for that leaf). Perhaps one could make an argument > > that this is just for test setups and the keys and data exchanged > > are "not very valuable", but there is always risk of key sharing > > across protocols, and my preference is to present the strong > > defaults and give users the option to reduce where appropriate. > > What are the authors' thoughts here? > > We can bump the default for ‘count to be 15, and the default for ‘max-count-exponent’ to 20. Thanks! > > > > Section 7 > > > > There are probably more nodes that can get called out as > > particularly vulnerable, such as the count and max-count nodes that > > can cause a long time to be spent on PBKDF2 iterations, the dscp > > markings, the mode bitmask, etc. > > The question of more nodes being identified from a vulnerability perspective has been called out on the other thread. We can use the above discussion, and the point you make below to call out ‘count’ and ‘max-count-exponent’. What do you see as issue with different DSCP markings or with mode bit mask? If I understand correctly, different DCSP markings could affect the processing of the test traffic on the network (skewing the results), and changing the mode mask could result in big changes, like using unauthenticated (and MITM-able) test traffic instead of authenticated traffic. > > > > Appendix A > > > > The elements appear to be using base64-encoded values. > > Where is it specified that such encoding is used for the binary > > values? (I assume this is just my ignorance of a generic standard, > > so please enlighten me!) > > RFC 7950 says in section 9.8.2 that: > > Binary values are encoded with the base64 encoding scheme (see > Section 4 in [RFC4648] ). > > > > > > Am I reading it right that the 30 means 2^30 (one > > billion) PBKDF2 iterations? Has this actually been run in practice? > > It seems like it would be painfully slow. > > It was setup as an example to show how a test session could be configured. We can reduce the value of count to 15. Thanks! -Benjamin From nobody Fri Jun 22 09:06:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20DEA130EA6; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:06:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CGhlPVQVtfUN; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x244.google.com (mail-pl0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CDCD130EA2; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x244.google.com with SMTP id g20-v6so3720522plq.1; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:06:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=aYzZJSk1jaTjgbVNPzOwUNcik4RbD4KRYE7qBWfdiMI=; b=bIZSoYcMEcCyiJ48yW8YEj8fUsNBgzJQ/sqAKulJOOc/6gN0QmyDm5E+OXWLNQTNQV jq8obqY0yxsAGX+vyAV1artCkLFyalY9ztQP+W6xIXD+kc04ohuWCBZ7HI9HsSdFBsc3 mjgO8OC/4uQvBS2s1cPn96yRRBFpj57zGQrPW+FYyOItA/gDUZjj6oDQdYYwe9sIEJyH KtvdpTHCGSOWLyE/NugC40q1xNSuKA9MYUbWC4F53TpJqAvyVHEKsuKu1c1acMtFPxz2 /2zwzZ5DvvwZRQVH91zP4NialtudKnzSP1K4cL4dzlzyK2h9ahlt4YsE0AcKvWkWkYHH nw7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=aYzZJSk1jaTjgbVNPzOwUNcik4RbD4KRYE7qBWfdiMI=; b=mERCm8MSC5+BosgqRq1SGqmPjhkWEGqinsOVHTmwcSRPjViAiSnBC6nvuCEFx9q0P2 Zi95yWtATZfdQEzJHW0iEW9WyamypuR/tjU+tLWgY42sMRj65IqP/ecTEs7cBu+pAqB8 PXxg9r/kOrWQ+b09F3CST/x90+X+pQdTFyALFOW6KO09OFk7Q++y+vZtzsMV/4oaCdNy KvE85mxjC1U+a/DxTwxylfD8IBVf8sA+5I6jnBXyHaiDgukSednbJasI+p1Vzf4bErIS 6Zn+hD6rJuz/H3e4hVXECOm1yVEMjZA7qTd+1x3huRwuery9U1dRW3cfWq1dG79AmSum M7xg== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2itaWjsEOMCSwn5w3c6nL5Y9/revEu9MLRDHELh//X01yMF8a0 qC9QP5oyj91/apfXmsyZGYktd39+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLx9xSVo7/CJV2PJk1OfXNj+rVWeWGOU3djO3goE78HbX4BuiXvdf1zDZIaDnSsxVE6nOD1kg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b60c:: with SMTP id b12-v6mr2350365pls.44.1529683591644; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:4d0b:6c71:d421:caa8? ([2601:647:4700:1280:4d0b:6c71:d421:caa8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z74-v6sm17913321pff.54.2018.06.22.09.06.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:06:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DA31FEC9-EDAC-417B-9C33-82B68DFA7A91" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:06:29 -0700 In-Reply-To: <6F023FC8-107C-4B02-94E4-8249F665D604@cooperw.in> Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org To: Alissa Cooper References: <152958677666.31598.2871670854497240031.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <767FDA55-D716-4005-9150-0C6AAD47CAB8@gmail.com> <6F023FC8-107C-4B02-94E4-8249F665D604@cooperw.in> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:06:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DA31FEC9-EDAC-417B-9C33-82B68DFA7A91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jun 22, 2018, at 6:19 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On Jun 21, 2018, at 5:36 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani = > wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Alissa, >>=20 >>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 6:12 AM, Alissa Cooper > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection >>>=20 >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to = all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html = >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ = >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>=20 >>> I support Adam's DISCUSS. >>=20 >> Ok. Let me respond to that on the thread Adam has initiated. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Section 1.1: I'm surprised to see the two references to the = long-expired NFVRG >>> drafts. If a reference to describe virtualized infrastructure using >>> orchestration is really needed (I'm not convinced that it is), I = would assume a >>> better reference exists from outside the IETF/IRTF. >>=20 >> I did a Google search for the topic of one of the drafts, and top = hits came from IEEE. But both the papers are available on a subscription = basis. What is the policy for quoting papers that are not publicly = available? >>=20 >> To the question for the need to have a reference to virtualized = infrastructure, the authors are merely pointing out that the problem of = measurement is more acute because of scale. We are happy to drop the = reference.=20 >>=20 >> Please advise.=20 >=20 > I think dropping the references is preferable. Will do. Thanks. >=20 > Thanks, > Alissa >=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Section 5.2: >>>=20 >>> OLD >>> "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter >>> timestamps undetectably.' See also Section 4 of RFC 7717 >>> and Section 6 of RFC 4656." >>>=20 >>> NEW >>> "Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter >>> timestamps undetectably' [Section 6 of RFC 4656]. See = also >>> Section 4 of RFC 7717.=E2=80=9D >>=20 >> Will fix. >>=20 >> Thanks. >>=20 >>> Process comment more for the AD: the YANG doctors reviewed a version = of this >>> more than a year ago. Is that typical or would they normally review = again >>> during IETF LC? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> Mahesh Jethanandani >> mjethanandani@gmail.com Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_DA31FEC9-EDAC-417B-9C33-82B68DFA7A91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Jun 22, 2018, at 6:19 AM, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> = wrote:


On Jun 21, 2018, at = 5:36 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Alissa,

On Jun 21, 2018, at 6:12 AM, Alissa = Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> wrote:

Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position = for
draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line = intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To = and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory = paragraph, however.)


Please = refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htmlfor more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT = positions.


The document, = along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/



---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
COMMENT:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

I support Adam's DISCUSS.

Ok. Let me respond to that on the thread = Adam has initiated.


Section 1.1: I'm = surprised to see the two references to the long-expired NFVRG
drafts. If a reference to describe virtualized infrastructure = using
orchestration is really needed (I'm not convinced = that it is), I would assume a
better reference exists from = outside the IETF/IRTF.

I did a Google search for the = topic of one of the drafts, and top hits came from IEEE. But both the = papers are available on a subscription basis. What is the policy for = quoting papers that are not publicly available?

To the question for the need = to have a reference to virtualized infrastructure, the authors are = merely pointing out that the problem of measurement is more acute = because of scale. We are happy to drop the reference. 

Please advise. 

I = think dropping the references is = preferable.

Will = do.



Thanks,
Alissa



Section 5.2:

OLD
"Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter
          &nb= sp; timestamps undetectably.' See also Section 4 of RFC 7717
          &nb= sp; and Section 6 of RFC 4656."

NEW
"Encrypted mode 'makes it impossible to alter
          &nb= sp; timestamps undetectably' [Section 6 of RFC 4656]. See also
          &nb= sp; Section 4 of RFC 7717.=E2=80=9D

Will fix.

Thanks.

Process comment more for the AD: the = YANG doctors reviewed a version of this
more than a year = ago. Is that typical or would they normally review again
during IETF LC?



Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

= --Apple-Mail=_DA31FEC9-EDAC-417B-9C33-82B68DFA7A91-- From nobody Fri Jun 22 10:46:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98867130E10; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:46:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 781U5uBk-e9f; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x236.google.com (mail-pf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01100130EB0; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id a11-v6so3542765pff.8; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:46:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=nmHPF/hfgJwujtSr6z2cik1zKryUa1YuFbn4HJGWHnU=; b=uRz1XqH0OPUd8lI/QLHhqoIaWZcv2pjS84xnHEa1s0397m6V6BP81wjxx6p5vbi6XK 31vekTnkP7npTA4P7o38sMhS85N2dp3B89//v7bniRvZvg2odjSo+sxO/mZtm3QPYA9L 1/csJG7m5ZdhWEo/23KixUPyEcmxYOotqizu4Gvt4B5hvX7+gRgcB9d+lsbW4zX+a1Zv Xhz3qbXKaTsBAuW2d52O5puC4MITdwcegF/HPWQZ1yZu0YjVHlQ2sJxbaXseH+0J7hz4 nLROFEOk8wMXusPRyttHv9Z9AZsx4Fc4chDYCFhk/ILnfpxo9yaMGnGpf3DYpNZelt6R 8agA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=nmHPF/hfgJwujtSr6z2cik1zKryUa1YuFbn4HJGWHnU=; b=DvVbOPDHU2I2V+z8KWv/enIPQmNEgdA7fECsSCFsxsLp2RUbRC3M+Tgx620V9GbSIj Pev/uQAN9d3calNZ6HCyU6v9gTxdRpmMYKMhccB2d8FoiozSUoy9KXsFIQrBxi178cd3 177vj1u1WQJZazG5VWVhX/Z/YNr2xmgghoeX68HqvuYrM21QRcU4EvBJZSGDN6QjDE5s iNS1lNfsfvTqxDYmySQvs8NMOvF3hwWTjdCdyp5lcJWT3WrgQu15ELUBWoWNqB+iya2U oY5omSLrKovxNmSmESB2P0LLo20zAl2xWYdMMt8p8fpP6GnuD0OENLWFHr4dR4xM3ITH usAA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2fNX0tYSP3pjmWrZsHgJO/V9h/pC9h/5sjrXN8VX1UCrEqyJy5 UqqcggRlnydSNYSpjynEo6s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKIlR+lAzDffAt+KkWiYRYSqr5egJC3HzElcUe28l63K6eTYFdO00gfqRYyo6X2LSCta0QjzLQ== X-Received: by 2002:a63:6e44:: with SMTP id j65-v6mr2310493pgc.14.1529689588373; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:4d0b:6c71:d421:caa8? ([2601:647:4700:1280:4d0b:6c71:d421:caa8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w7-v6sm10028814pgr.82.2018.06.22.10.46.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:46:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_07FF936E-BE8C-4587-9EA8-4A4C0562A58F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:46:25 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20180622151458.GE64617@kduck.kaduk.org> Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org To: Benjamin Kaduk References: <152933869439.3647.15290297683322606646.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <3A3BEE09-40B0-4006-A404-6933081C9A19@gmail.com> <20180622151458.GE64617@kduck.kaduk.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 17:46:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_07FF936E-BE8C-4587-9EA8-4A4C0562A58F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Ben, > On Jun 22, 2018, at 8:15 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: >=20 > On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 06:55:23PM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: >> Hi Ben, >>=20 >>> On Jun 18, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: >>>=20 >>> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection >>>=20 >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to = all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>=20 >>> Perhaps I am confused and/or misreading things, but the descriptions >>> of the control-client and session-reflector include discussion of >>> 'sid' session identifiers as if they were always used, but the mode >>> bitmap includes a separate bit for negotiation of >>> 'individual-session-control' for session identifier usage. Is there >>> some conflict between this mandatory/negotiable distinction, or are >>> they actually talking about different things? >>=20 >> I believe Al has responded on this issue already. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Comments below in document order, but please pay special note to the >>> (potential) need for global uniqueness of key-ids, the PBKDF2 >>> iteration count, and the list of sensitive nodes to call out in the >>> security considerations. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Section 3.1 >>>=20 >>> o Authentication and encryption attributes such as KeyID, Token = and >>> the Client Initialization Vector (Client-IV); see also the last >>> paragraph of Section 6 in OWAMP [RFC4656] and Randomness >>> Requirements for Security [RFC4086]. >>>=20 >>> I'm confused about what the RFC4656 reference is intended to call >>> out -- the reliance on AES to be resistant to chosen plaintext, or >>> the randomly generated challenge from the server, or the existential >>> forgeries? >>=20 >> The reference should have been to Section 3.1 of RFC4656. >=20 > To be clear, to all of Section 3.1, not just the last paragraph? That is correct. >=20 >>>=20 >>> o Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the = test >>> starting time, which performance metric is to be used Registry = for >>> Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry], or whether >>> the test should be repeated. >>>=20 >>> Is there something missing before or around "Registry for >>> Performance Metrics"? The current text is hard to read. >>=20 >> Agree. How about this: >>=20 >> OLD >> Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the = test >> starting time, which performance metric is to be used Registry = for >> Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry = >], or whether >> the test should be repeated. >>=20 >>=20 >> NEW >> Information pertaining to the test packet stream, such as the = test >> starting time, which performance metric is to be used, as = defined in Registry for >> Performance Metrics [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry = >], or whether >> the test should be repeated. >=20 > Much better! >=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Section 3.4 >>>=20 >>> Each Session-Reflector is associated with zero or more TWAMP-Test >>> sessions. For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter = which >>> determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have = been >>> received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2) can be configured. >>>=20 >>> nit: I think this would be easier to read if "which >>> determines...received" was offset by commas or parentheses. >>=20 >> How about this: >>=20 >> OLD >> For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which >> determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have = been >> received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2 = >) can be configured. >>=20 >>=20 >> NEW >> For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter can be = configured, which >> determines whether to discontinue the session, if no packets have = been >> received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2 = >). >=20 > I'm not sure this is quite right -- the clause offset by commas = starting > with "which" is supposed to be a "parenthetical", a clause adding some > additional information that is not necessary to understand the = sentence. > That is, the sentence is still supposed to read fine if the entire = clause > (and commas) are removed. But "the REFWAIT timeout parameter can be > configured if no packets have been received" seems like a different = meaning > than is intended. Ok. How about? OLD: For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section=C2=A04.2 = ) can be configured. NEW: For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter, which determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section=C2=A04.2 = ), can be configured. >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Read-only access to other data model parameters, such as the Sender >>> IP address is foreseen. Each test session can be uniquely = identified >>> by the 4-tuple mentioned in Section 3.2. >>>=20 >>> Nit: comma after "Sender IP address=E2=80=9D. >>=20 >> Ok. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Section 4.1 >>>=20 >>> [...] Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the >>> mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned >>> integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent integers >>> increase by one. >>>=20 >>> I thought I remembered some discussion about this text being unclear >>> and removing "and subsequent integers increase by one" being >>> proposed. But I don't see that discussion in an obvious place, so >>> maybe it was on a different document. >>=20 >> You do have a good memory. It was for this document. See the = discussion on the other thread with Pete, where this has come up and = edits proposed. >=20 > I think I remember those going by and looking good. >=20 >>>=20 >>> Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit position >>> combinations when necessary, such as when referring to the extended >>> [...] >>>=20 >>> Maybe "may set multiple bits independently" would be more clear? >>> But it seems that some bit combinations don't make any sense, like >>> unauthenticated+authenticated -- is there need for more expository >>> text here? >>=20 >> How about: >>=20 >> OLD: >> Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit position >> combinations when necessary, such as when referring to the extended >> TWAMP features in [RFC5618 >], [RFC5938 = >], [RFC6038 = >], and [RFC7717 = >]. If >> the Control-Client cannot determine an acceptable Mode, it MUST >> respond with zero Mode bits set in the Set-up Response message, >> indicating it will not continue with the control connection. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> NEW: >> Note that the list of preferred Modes may set multiple bit position >> independently, such as when referring to the extended >> TWAMP features in [RFC5618 >], [RFC5938 = >], [RFC6038 = >], and [RFC7717 = >]. If >> the Control-Client cannot determine an acceptable Mode, or when the=20= >> bit combinations do not make sense, e.g. both authenticated and=20 >> unauthenticated bit set, it MUST respond with zero Mode bits set=20 >> in the Set-up Response message, indicating it will not continue = with=20 >> the control connection. >=20 > That looks good. (But put a comma after "e.g." as well as before.) Will do. >=20 >>>=20 >>> [...] The secret-key is the shared secret, a sequence >>> of octets of arbitrary length whose interpretation is unspecified. >>> The key-id and secret-key encoding SHOULD follow Section 9.4 of = YANG >>> [RFC7950]. [...] >>>=20 >>> Section 9.4 of YANG is for (printable) strings, but the secret-key >>> is binary -- should this get a Section 9.8 reference as well? >>> I'm also not sure that leaving it as "arbitrary length" >>> is great -- if we're using it to derive 16-byte AES keys and 32-byte >>> HMAC-SHA1 keys, we could at least say "SHOULD contain at least 128 >>> bits of entropy=E2=80=9D. >>=20 >> This was my bad. I changed the text for the secret-key from string to = binary in the YANG model, at the behest of Tom Petch, but forgot to = update this text. I can update the reference to Section 9.8 of RFC7950. = Will add text around the 128 bits of entropy. >=20 > Ah, okay. (I had originally put in a lot more text about this before = I > noticed that he rest of the document had the key as binary, and it was = why > I was looking so closely at the base64 encoding later on.) >=20 >>>=20 >>> Section 4.2 >>>=20 >>> [...] The Server, being prepared to conduct >>> sessions with more than one Control-Client, uses KeyIDs to choose = the >>> appropriate secret-key; a Control-Client would typically have >>> different secret keys for different Servers. key-id tells the = Server >>> which shared-secret the Control-Client wishes to use for >>> authentication or encryption. >>>=20 >>> Does this imply a global uniqueness requirement for key-ids? If so, >>> that should be called out more clearly. >>=20 >> Section 4.1 says. Do you think this is clear enough? >>=20 >> Both the Server and >> the Control-Client use the same mappings from KeyIDs to shared >> secrets (key-id and secret-key in Figure 3, respectively) >=20 > I'd prefer to have it also say explicitly that they must be unique, as = in > something like >=20 > NEW: >=20 > Both the Server and > the Control-Client use the same mappings from KeyIDs to shared > secrets (key-id and secret-key in Figure 3, respectively); in order > for this to work properly, KeyIds must be unique across all systems = in > the administrative domain. >=20 Ok. I have made some minor tweaks to the above suggested changes, mainly = to consolidate all references of =E2=80=9CKeyIDs" to "key-id" and = =E2=80=9Cshared secret=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cshared-secret=E2=80=9D to = =E2=80=9Csecret-key=E2=80=9D so they are consistent with the UML diagram = and the box =E2=80=9Ckey-chain=E2=80=9D. It now appears as: NEW: (In Section 4.1) Both the Server and the Control-Client use the same mappings from key-id = to secret-key (in Figure 3); in order for this to work properly, key-id = must be unique across all systems in the administrative domain. NEW: (In Section 4.2) As mentioned in Section 4.1, both the Server and the Control-Client use = the same mapping from key-id to shared secret-key; in order for this to = work properly, key-id must be unique across all the systems in the = administrative domain. >=20 >>>=20 >>> Section 4.3 >>>=20 >>> | name | >>> | ctrl-connection-name {ro} | >>> | fill-mode | >>> | number-of-packets | >>> | state {ro} | >>> | sent-packets {ro} | >>> | rcv-packets {ro} | >>> | last-sent-seq {ro} | >>> | last-rcv-seq {ro} | >>> +---------------------------+ >>>=20 >>> nit: should the "{ro}" on "state" be right-aligned with the others? >>=20 >> Ok.=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Is there any privacy concern about exposing the parent-connection >>> 4-tuple? >>=20 >> As discussed in the other thread, the test is run between the four = logical entities within the same provider network. That combined with = the security of the session, and use of access control (NACM) can limit = how much is exposed and what they can do with that information. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Section 5.2 >>>=20 >>> In the 'count' leaf, a default value of 10 (corresponding to an >>> iteration count of 2^10 =3D=3D 1024 for PBKDF2) is described. This >>> seems quite low for a PBKDF2 iteration count, by modern standards. >>> In "normal" cryptographic protocols we would generally be using a >>> default closer to 32768 =3D=3D 2^15 (which I see is the default = *max* >>> count value, and there is additional discussion of the issue in the >>> leaf description for that leaf). Perhaps one could make an argument >>> that this is just for test setups and the keys and data exchanged >>> are "not very valuable", but there is always risk of key sharing >>> across protocols, and my preference is to present the strong >>> defaults and give users the option to reduce where appropriate. >>> What are the authors' thoughts here? >>=20 >> We can bump the default for =E2=80=98count to be 15, and the default = for =E2=80=98max-count-exponent=E2=80=99 to 20. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 >>>=20 >>> Section 7 >>>=20 >>> There are probably more nodes that can get called out as >>> particularly vulnerable, such as the count and max-count nodes that >>> can cause a long time to be spent on PBKDF2 iterations, the dscp >>> markings, the mode bitmask, etc. >>=20 >> The question of more nodes being identified from a vulnerability = perspective has been called out on the other thread. We can use the = above discussion, and the point you make below to call out =E2=80=98count=E2= =80=99 and =E2=80=98max-count-exponent=E2=80=99. What do you see as = issue with different DSCP markings or with mode bit mask? >=20 > If I understand correctly, different DCSP markings could affect the > processing of the test traffic on the network (skewing the results), = and > changing the mode mask could result in big changes, like using > unauthenticated (and MITM-able) test traffic instead of authenticated > traffic. Ok. Will add text around it. Thanks. >=20 >>>=20 >>> Appendix A >>>=20 >>> The elements appear to be using base64-encoded values. >>> Where is it specified that such encoding is used for the binary >>> values? (I assume this is just my ignorance of a generic standard, >>> so please enlighten me!) >>=20 >> RFC 7950 says in section 9.8.2 that: >>=20 >> Binary values are encoded with the base64 encoding scheme (see >> Section 4 in [RFC4648] = >). >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Am I reading it right that the 30 means 2^30 (one >>> billion) PBKDF2 iterations? Has this actually been run in practice? >>> It seems like it would be painfully slow. >>=20 >> It was setup as an example to show how a test session could be = configured. We can reduce the value of count to 15. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > -Benjamin Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_07FF936E-BE8C-4587-9EA8-4A4C0562A58F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Ben,

On Jun 22, 2018, at 8:15 AM, Benjamin Kaduk = <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at = 06:55:23PM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote:
Hi = Ben,

On = Jun 18, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote:

Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following = ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No = Objection

When responding, please keep the = subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses = included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htmlfor more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT = positions.


The document, = along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/



---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
COMMENT:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

Perhaps I am confused and/or = misreading things, but the descriptions
of the = control-client and session-reflector include discussion of
'sid' session identifiers as if they were always used, but = the mode
bitmap includes a separate bit for negotiation = of
'individual-session-control' for session identifier = usage.  Is there
some conflict between this = mandatory/negotiable distinction, or are
they actually = talking about different things?

I believe Al has responded on this issue already.


Comments below in document order, but please pay special note = to the
(potential) need for global uniqueness of key-ids, = the PBKDF2
iteration count, and the list of sensitive = nodes to call out in the
security considerations.


Section 3.1

 o  Authentication and encryption attributes such = as KeyID, Token and
    the Client = Initialization Vector (Client-IV); see also the last
    paragraph of Section 6 in OWAMP = [RFC4656] and Randomness
    Requirements for Security = [RFC4086].

I'm confused about what the = RFC4656 reference is intended to call
out -- the reliance = on AES to be resistant to chosen plaintext, or
the = randomly generated challenge from the server, or the existential
forgeries?

The = reference should have been to Section 3.1 of RFC4656.

To be clear, to all of Section 3.1, not just the last = paragraph?

That is = correct.



 o  Information pertaining to the = test packet stream, such as the test
    starting time, which performance = metric is to be used Registry for
    Performance Metrics = [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry], or whether
    the test should be repeated.

Is there something missing before or around = "Registry for
Performance Metrics"?  The current text = is hard to read.

Agree. How = about this:

OLD
     Information pertaining to the = test packet stream, such as the test
     starting time, which = performance metric is to be used Registry for
     Performance Metrics = [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11#ref-I= -D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry>], or whether
     the test should be repeated.


NEW
     Information pertaining to the = test packet stream, such as the test
     starting time, which = performance metric is to be used, as defined in Registry for
     Performance Metrics = [I-D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11#ref-I= -D.ietf-ippm-metric-registry>], or whether
     the test should be repeated.

Much better!



Section 3.4

 Each Session-Reflector is associated with zero or more = TWAMP-Test
 sessions.  For each test session, = the REFWAIT timeout parameter which
 determines = whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been
 received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2) can be = configured.

nit: I think this would be = easier to read if "which
determines...received" was offset = by commas or parentheses.

How = about this:

OLD
  For= each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which
  determines whether to discontinue the session if = no packets have been
  received (TWAMP = [RFC5357], Section 4.2 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5357#section-4.2>) can = be configured.


NEW
  For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout = parameter can be configured, which
  determines = whether to discontinue the session, if no packets have been
  received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2 = <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5357#section-4.2>).

I'm not sure this is quite right -- the clause offset by = commas starting
with "which" is supposed to be a "parenthetical", a clause = adding some
additional = information that is not necessary to understand the sentence.
That is, the sentence is still = supposed to read fine if the entire clause
(and commas) are removed.  But "the REFWAIT timeout = parameter can be
configured if no packets have been received" seems like a = different meaning
than is intended.

Ok. How about?

OLD:
   For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which
   determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been
   received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2) can be configured.


NEW:
   For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter, which
   determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been
   received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2), can be =
configured.






 Read-only access to other data model parameters, such = as the Sender
 IP address is foreseen.  Each = test session can be uniquely identified
 by the = 4-tuple mentioned in Section 3.2.

Nit: = comma after "Sender IP address=E2=80=9D.

Ok.


Section 4.1

 [...] Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the
 mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a = 16-bit unsigned
 integer, where zero is the highest = priority and subsequent integers
 increase by one.

I thought I remembered some discussion about = this text being unclear
and removing "and subsequent = integers increase by one" being
proposed.  But I = don't see that discussion in an obvious place, so
maybe it = was on a different document.

You= do have a good memory. It was for this document. See the discussion on = the other thread with Pete, where this has come up and edits = proposed.

I think I remember those going by and looking good.


 Note = that the list of preferred Modes may set bit position
 combinations when necessary, such as when referring to = the extended
 [...]

Maybe = "may set multiple bits independently" would be more clear?
But it seems that some bit combinations don't make any sense, = like
unauthenticated+authenticated -- is there need for = more expository
text here?

How about:

OLD:
  Note that the list of preferred Modes may set bit = position
  combinations when necessary, such as = when referring to the extended
  TWAMP features = in [RFC5618 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5618>], [RFC5938 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5938>], [RFC6038 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6038>], and [RFC7717 = <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7717>].  If
  the Control-Client cannot determine an acceptable = Mode, it MUST
  respond with zero Mode bits set = in the Set-up Response message,
  indicating it = will not continue with the control connection.



NEW:
  Note that the list of preferred Modes may set = multiple bit position
  independently, such as = when referring to the extended
  TWAMP features = in [RFC5618 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5618>], [RFC5938 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5938>], [RFC6038 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6038>], and [RFC7717 = <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7717>].  If
  the Control-Client cannot determine an acceptable = Mode, or when the 
  bit combinations do not make sense, e.g. both = authenticated and 
  unauthenticated bit set, it MUST respond with = zero Mode bits set 
  in the Set-up Response message, indicating it = will not continue with 
  the control connection.

That looks good.  (But put a comma after "e.g." as well = as before.)

Will = do.



 [...]= The secret-key is the shared secret, a sequence
 of = octets of arbitrary length whose interpretation is unspecified.
 The key-id and secret-key encoding SHOULD follow = Section 9.4 of YANG
 [RFC7950]. [...]
Section 9.4 of YANG is for (printable) strings, but the = secret-key
is binary -- should this get a Section 9.8 = reference as well?
I'm also not sure that leaving it as = "arbitrary length"
is great -- if we're using it to derive = 16-byte AES keys and 32-byte
HMAC-SHA1 keys, we could at = least say "SHOULD contain at least 128
bits of = entropy=E2=80=9D.

This was my = bad. I changed the text for the secret-key from string to binary in the = YANG model, at the behest of Tom Petch, but forgot to update this text. = I can update the reference to Section 9.8 of RFC7950. Will add text = around the 128 bits of entropy.

Ah, okay.  (I had = originally put in a lot more text about this before I
noticed that he rest of the = document had the key as binary, and it was why
I was looking so closely at the = base64 encoding later on.)


Section 4.2

 [...] The Server, being prepared to conduct
 sessions with more than one Control-Client, uses KeyIDs = to choose the
 appropriate secret-key; a = Control-Client would typically have
 different secret = keys for different Servers. key-id tells the Server
 which shared-secret the Control-Client wishes to use = for
 authentication or encryption.

Does this imply a global uniqueness requirement for key-ids? =  If so,
that should be called out more clearly.

Section 4.1 says. Do you think = this is clear enough?

  Both the = Server and
  the Control-Client use the same = mappings from KeyIDs to shared
  secrets (key-id = and secret-key in Figure 3, respectively)

I'd prefer to have it also say = explicitly that they must be unique, as in
something like

NEW:

   Both the Server and
   the = Control-Client use the same mappings from KeyIDs to shared
   secrets = (key-id and secret-key in Figure 3, respectively); in order
   for this to = work properly, KeyIds must be unique across all systems in
   the = administrative domain.


Ok. I have made some minor tweaks to the above = suggested changes, mainly to consolidate all references of =E2=80=9CKeyIDs= " to "key-id" and =E2=80=9Cshared secret=E2=80=9D and = =E2=80=9Cshared-secret=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Csecret-key=E2=80=9D so they = are consistent with the UML diagram and the box =E2=80=9Ckey-chain=E2=80=9D= . It now appears as:

NEW: (In = Section 4.1)
Both the Server and the Control-Client use the = same mappings from key-id to secret-key (in Figure 3); in order for = this to work properly, key-id must be unique across all systems in the = administrative domain.

NEW: (In = Section 4.2)
As mentioned in Section 4.1, both the Server and = the Control-Client use the same mapping from key-id to shared = secret-key; in order for this to work properly, key-id must be unique = across all the systems in the administrative domain.




Section 4.3

          &nb= sp;            = ;   | name =             &n= bsp;        |
          &nb= sp;            = ;   | ctrl-connection-name {ro} |
          &nb= sp;            = ;   | fill-mode =             &n= bsp;   |
          &nb= sp;            = ;   | number-of-packets =         |
          &nb= sp;            = ;   | state {ro} =             &n= bsp;  |
          &nb= sp;            = ;   | sent-packets =         {ro} |
          &nb= sp;            = ;   | rcv-packets =          {ro} |
          &nb= sp;            = ;   | last-sent-seq =        {ro} |
          &nb= sp;            = ;   | last-rcv-seq =         {ro} |
          &nb= sp;            = ;   +---------------------------+

nit: should the "{ro}" on "state" be right-aligned with the = others?

Ok. 


Is there = any privacy concern about exposing the parent-connection
4-tuple?

As = discussed in the other thread, the test is run between the four logical = entities within the same provider network. That combined with the = security of the session, and use of access control (NACM) can limit how = much is exposed and what they can do with that information.


Section 5.2

In the 'count' leaf, = a default value of 10 (corresponding to an
iteration count = of 2^10 =3D=3D 1024 for PBKDF2) is described.  This
seems quite low for a PBKDF2 iteration count, by modern = standards.
In "normal" cryptographic protocols we would = generally be using a
default closer to 32768 =3D=3D 2^15 = (which I see is the default *max*
count value, and there = is additional discussion of the issue in the
leaf = description for that leaf).  Perhaps one could make an argument
that this is just for test setups and the keys and data = exchanged
are "not very valuable", but there is always = risk of key sharing
across protocols, and my preference is = to present the strong
defaults and give users the option = to reduce where appropriate.
What are the authors' = thoughts here?

We can bump the = default for =E2=80=98count to be 15, and the default for = =E2=80=98max-count-exponent=E2=80=99 to 20.
Thanks!


Section = 7

There are probably more nodes that can = get called out as
particularly vulnerable, such as the = count and max-count nodes that
can cause a long time to be = spent on PBKDF2 iterations, the dscp
markings, the mode = bitmask, etc.

The question of = more nodes being identified from a vulnerability perspective has been = called out on the other thread. We can use the above discussion, and the = point you make below to call out =E2=80=98count=E2=80=99 and = =E2=80=98max-count-exponent=E2=80=99. What do you see as issue with = different DSCP markings or with mode bit mask?

If I understand correctly, different DCSP markings could = affect the
processing of = the test traffic on the network (skewing the results), and
changing the mode mask could = result in big changes, like using
unauthenticated (and MITM-able) test traffic instead of = authenticated
traffic.

Ok. Will add text around it.

Thanks.



Appendix A

The = <secret-key> elements appear to be using base64-encoded values.
Where is it specified that such encoding is used for the = binary
values?  (I assume this is just my ignorance = of a generic standard,
so please enlighten me!)

RFC 7950 says in section 9.8.2 = that:

  Binary values are encoded = with the base64 encoding scheme (see
  Section 4 in [RFC4648] <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4648#section-4>).



Am I reading it right that the = <count>30</count> means 2^30 (one
billion) = PBKDF2 iterations?  Has this actually been run in practice?
It seems like it would be painfully slow.

It was setup as an example to = show how a test session could be configured. We can reduce the value of = count to 15.

Thanks!

-Benjamin

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

= --Apple-Mail=_07FF936E-BE8C-4587-9EA8-4A4C0562A58F-- From nobody Fri Jun 22 11:05:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F046130EBA; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xO7Ey52FpzSo; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 11:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu [18.9.25.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 619BF130E10; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 11:05:35 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1209190f-b43ff70000002ab1-9d-5b2d3a6e0bb8 Received: from mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.39]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id DB.6A.10929.E6A3D2B5; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w5MI5WZa014087; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:05:33 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w5MI5RaW025197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:05:30 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 13:05:27 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180622180527.GI64617@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <152933869439.3647.15290297683322606646.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <3A3BEE09-40B0-4006-A404-6933081C9A19@gmail.com> <20180622151458.GE64617@kduck.kaduk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprDKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixG6nrptnpRttsPCUoMWtIw2MFjP+TGS2 WL2jm82i58E7ZovTb9axWXw+eYnRgc1j56y77B5Llvxk8tgy4xZTAHMUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0C V8afPyuZCp7bVry/W97AeFKvi5GTQ0LARGJL90n2LkYuDiGBxUwSC06tYoZwNjJKPGg6ywLh XGWSmNv3lR2khUVAVeL/rdlgNpuAikRD92VmEFtEwFDi1IEXTCANzAKrGCWu9P5i7WLk4BAW iJWYN4kbpIYXaN2lvUugNtxjlDj77A0rREJQ4uTMJywgNrOAusSfeZeYQXqZBaQllv/jgAjL SzRvnQ22i1PAVuLc6wtgtqiAssTevkPsExgFZyGZNAvJpFkIk2YhmbSAkWUVo2xKbpVubmJm TnFqsm5xcmJeXmqRrolebmaJXmpK6SZGUCRwSvLvYJzT4H2IUYCDUYmHV+OrTrQQa2JZcWXu IUZJDiYlUd6bFUAhvqT8lMqMxOKM+KLSnNTiQ4wSHMxKIrxuT4FyvCmJlVWpRfkwKWkOFiVx 3uxFjNFCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWRkODiUJ3imWutFCgkWp6akVaZk5JQhpJg5OkOE8QMN3WwDV 8BYXJOYWZ6ZD5E8xKkqJ804DaRYASWSU5sH1ghKVRPb+mleM4kCvCPNeBqniASY5uO5XQIOZ gAZXN2uBDC5JREhJNTDGCe1cxtX6mUU9fnHTPbk9KYbfFVTDelt1sy6qJds8Mtvknx/bucd6 ozZjvV2ar98pB9Om9u97LLo+sUxP/XD3Y/OFObYcDQY8GtG2pwyPfWPYNulEycqVP15ZXzrt 0bPzkeKx9oLPL3381jBfDPoz9+xbYTGzVK3lrh1HdGd+XrFm40e9hYFKLMUZiYZazEXFiQCb fJVmLwMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 18:05:38 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 10:46:25AM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Hi Ben, > > > On Jun 22, 2018, at 8:15 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 06:55:23PM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > >> Hi Ben, > >> > >>> On Jun 18, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > >>> > >>> Section 3.4 > >>> > >>> Each Session-Reflector is associated with zero or more TWAMP-Test > >>> sessions. For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which > >>> determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been > >>> received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2) can be configured. > >>> > >>> nit: I think this would be easier to read if "which > >>> determines...received" was offset by commas or parentheses. > >> > >> How about this: > >> > >> OLD > >> For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which > >> determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been > >> received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2 >) can be configured. > >> > >> > >> NEW > >> For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter can be configured, which > >> determines whether to discontinue the session, if no packets have been > >> received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2 >). > > > > I'm not sure this is quite right -- the clause offset by commas starting > > with "which" is supposed to be a "parenthetical", a clause adding some > > additional information that is not necessary to understand the sentence. > > That is, the sentence is still supposed to read fine if the entire clause > > (and commas) are removed. But "the REFWAIT timeout parameter can be > > configured if no packets have been received" seems like a different meaning > > than is intended. > > Ok. How about? > > OLD: > For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter which > determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been > received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2 ) can be configured. > > > NEW: > For each test session, the REFWAIT timeout parameter, which > determines whether to discontinue the session if no packets have been > received (TWAMP [RFC5357], Section 4.2 ), can be configured. That works for me. (I bet the RFC Editor will think there are too many commas, but will let them decide that for themselves.) > > > > >> > > > >>> > >>> Section 4.2 > >>> > >>> [...] The Server, being prepared to conduct > >>> sessions with more than one Control-Client, uses KeyIDs to choose the > >>> appropriate secret-key; a Control-Client would typically have > >>> different secret keys for different Servers. key-id tells the Server > >>> which shared-secret the Control-Client wishes to use for > >>> authentication or encryption. > >>> > >>> Does this imply a global uniqueness requirement for key-ids? If so, > >>> that should be called out more clearly. > >> > >> Section 4.1 says. Do you think this is clear enough? > >> > >> Both the Server and > >> the Control-Client use the same mappings from KeyIDs to shared > >> secrets (key-id and secret-key in Figure 3, respectively) > > > > I'd prefer to have it also say explicitly that they must be unique, as in > > something like > > > > NEW: > > > > Both the Server and > > the Control-Client use the same mappings from KeyIDs to shared > > secrets (key-id and secret-key in Figure 3, respectively); in order > > for this to work properly, KeyIds must be unique across all systems in > > the administrative domain. > > > > Ok. I have made some minor tweaks to the above suggested changes, mainly to consolidate all references of “KeyIDs" to "key-id" and “shared secret” and “shared-secret” to “secret-key” so they are consistent with the UML diagram and the box “key-chain”. It now appears as: > > NEW: (In Section 4.1) > Both the Server and the Control-Client use the same mappings from key-id to secret-key (in Figure 3); in order for this to work properly, key-id must be unique across all systems in the administrative domain. > > NEW: (In Section 4.2) > As mentioned in Section 4.1, both the Server and the Control-Client use the same mapping from key-id to shared secret-key; in order for this to work properly, key-id must be unique across all the systems in the administrative domain. > Thank you! > > > >>> > >>> Section 4.3 > >>> > >>> | name | > >>> | ctrl-connection-name {ro} | > >>> | fill-mode | > >>> | number-of-packets | > >>> | state {ro} | > >>> | sent-packets {ro} | > >>> | rcv-packets {ro} | > >>> | last-sent-seq {ro} | > >>> | last-rcv-seq {ro} | > >>> +---------------------------+ > >>> > >>> nit: should the "{ro}" on "state" be right-aligned with the others? > >> > >> Ok. > >> > >>> > >>> Is there any privacy concern about exposing the parent-connection > >>> 4-tuple? > >> > >> As discussed in the other thread, the test is run between the four logical entities within the same provider network. That combined with the security of the session, and use of access control (NACM) can limit how much is exposed and what they can do with that information. > >> > >>> > >>> Section 5.2 > >>> > >>> In the 'count' leaf, a default value of 10 (corresponding to an > >>> iteration count of 2^10 == 1024 for PBKDF2) is described. This > >>> seems quite low for a PBKDF2 iteration count, by modern standards. > >>> In "normal" cryptographic protocols we would generally be using a > >>> default closer to 32768 == 2^15 (which I see is the default *max* > >>> count value, and there is additional discussion of the issue in the > >>> leaf description for that leaf). Perhaps one could make an argument > >>> that this is just for test setups and the keys and data exchanged > >>> are "not very valuable", but there is always risk of key sharing > >>> across protocols, and my preference is to present the strong > >>> defaults and give users the option to reduce where appropriate. > >>> What are the authors' thoughts here? > >> > >> We can bump the default for ‘count to be 15, and the default for ‘max-count-exponent’ to 20. > > > > Thanks! > > > >>> > >>> Section 7 > >>> > >>> There are probably more nodes that can get called out as > >>> particularly vulnerable, such as the count and max-count nodes that > >>> can cause a long time to be spent on PBKDF2 iterations, the dscp > >>> markings, the mode bitmask, etc. > >> > >> The question of more nodes being identified from a vulnerability perspective has been called out on the other thread. We can use the above discussion, and the point you make below to call out ‘count’ and ‘max-count-exponent’. What do you see as issue with different DSCP markings or with mode bit mask? > > > > If I understand correctly, different DCSP markings could affect the > > processing of the test traffic on the network (skewing the results), and > > changing the mode mask could result in big changes, like using > > unauthenticated (and MITM-able) test traffic instead of authenticated > > traffic. > > Ok. Will add text around it. Great; thanks! -Benjamin From nobody Fri Jun 22 12:14:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6C4130EC0; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:14:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yEQ_a-MIiyvu; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x236.google.com (mail-pf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B66F130EED; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id y5-v6so3645779pfn.4; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:14:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fBZfiRamgYYjIGLfeOygkisHcLvlYdvKcxNPFRKacqE=; b=KIENaousZUdXHNep2MjrKv3SFnwuG4AVFY3MxL0xfEXva+vIXBkpgujo0AFR6WMcWP EEUJceT9CR1KhBRGBWMnNtijyYENYr1lJ+GM8plHt18ZyyKTgsu2AfRxD9QXoD/7mzCt B1m5EgAPfI2Lod6N9fmwvgK0j9pE96qQ3tuHgsBOWT8Q1tDBpdrs8X/RkNZ2/f1/eshM owFqS1zjbJ0elGSymGoJNGWoasIdAA6JGDIsBNk4zrWzvUNl+fraBAO5p3uVJgClfbYN /1QmNqTStyBz/GCTs+OHbRsJCnYZ/wrheYFWd8fg4+Ow+UbA4lIzznT6jbEybDmTragH PdNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fBZfiRamgYYjIGLfeOygkisHcLvlYdvKcxNPFRKacqE=; b=NF9HeGYekQj0ULG8FtJbrEXFF/SgRhF+AIUVbjw7SZqTbYSKJHhM3dxLAmvFQA/UXQ 0w6fed7VNH/O/BQUY92GB5Bys6EYTr0GUKkJwS9CsM3WOvcnW4+omho6flBR7nAmBVDv vToMkpPLBQYjrX+bGGmPgAP9dS8SGoABs2n7HfE5KaTqo396y9pKuwCtAzGoHPpvGQf6 bNOplCMrLD5JnQW3OUtrH4fCKkcnTHBqHE5mCqAxs6jynZ4xaFgfJQ1wcYj2D5lfiynp IhWFL5LiQ5N3WjoNsLMMHp3uALqNJKENrxVOgwHsbSccazK4eMqUQshsp+Nf2t8iGea6 CfhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3YpqIVqmYI6cVnzLDiF9TDDMfcw8VkxruqelYsl7t8ydkOZXyR VniuYVmEjW0GTc2+EqagKa4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJpU67v4qYxAVOxf2VWeSN+FmOpswBL6DojqTcY3ExR1K6+SckDtz/LmXDUQNKxf6TBGjYChw== X-Received: by 2002:a62:4f4f:: with SMTP id d76-v6mr3025198pfb.188.1529694854524; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:4d0b:6c71:d421:caa8? ([2601:647:4700:1280:4d0b:6c71:d421:caa8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v5-v6sm12564951pfm.14.2018.06.22.12.14.12 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <152955610162.28620.13249468338471662781.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:14:10 -0700 Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <063FD288-AF03-43B0-A519-5BFE418D3DC0@gmail.com> References: <152955610162.28620.13249468338471662781.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Adam Roach X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 19:14:26 -0000 Hi Adam, > On Jun 20, 2018, at 9:41 PM, Adam Roach wrote: >=20 > Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Thanks for the work and thought that everyone involved in this = document spent. I > find the model well described and easy to understand. >=20 > I agree with Ben's comments about including more information about the = privacy > and security properties of specific entities in the module. See > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines for = specific > guidance. >=20 > Since this conflicts with normative language in RFC 6087 =C2=A73.4 = (and 6087bis > =C2=A73.7), it is a blocking defect that needs to be remedied prior to = publication. I have added more nodes in the Security Considerations section. >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I applaud the use of UML in this document. I believe you need to = include a > reference to ISO/IEC 19501:2005 (or the OMG equivalent); and, since = the > diagrams appear to be normative, this reference probably needs to be > normative. It may be helpful (but less necessary) to also include a = brief key > to the symbols used by this document, for those readers who may not be > familiar with UML notation. >=20 Have added a reference to ISO/IEC 19501:2005. > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > =C2=A74.1: >=20 >> Specifically, mode-preference-chain lists the >> mode and its corresponding priority, expressed as a 16-bit unsigned >> integer, where zero is the highest priority and subsequent integers >> increase by one. >=20 > I think I know what this is trying to say, but it doesn't really say = it. > Subsequent integers increase by one, by the definition of "integer," = so I > don't think we need to reiterate that behavior here. Perhaps: "with = zero as > the highest priority, and 65535 as the lowest.=E2=80=9D This particular sentence has been commented on by several folks and = several suggestions and counter suggestions made. Please see other = threads. At this point, someone please just tell me what they want to = see here, and I will add it. >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > Figure 6: >=20 >> +----=3D--------------+ >> | session-reflector | >> +-------------------+ >> | admin-state | >> | refwait | >> +-------------------+ >=20 > Nit: the top line appears to have had an "=3D" character sneak in. Fixed. >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > Page 81: >=20 >> +--ro reflector-udp-port inet:port-numbe >> r >> +--ro parent-connection-client-ip? inet:ip-address >> +--ro parent-connection-client-tcp-port? inet:port-numbe >> r >> +--ro parent-connection-server-ip? inet:ip-address >> +--ro parent-connection-server-tcp-port? inet:port-numbe >> r >=20 > Wrapping the final character of the word "number" is probably not what = you want > to happen here. This diagram is generated using a tool, using a max-length parameter. If = it has to be fixed, it will have to be done manually, preferably in the = final version of the draft (just before publication).=20 >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > Page 34: >=20 > The configured (or auto-allocated) value is > advertized in the Sender Port field of the >=20 > Nit: =E2=80=9Cadvertised" Fixed. >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > Page 35: >=20 >> leaf timeout { >> type uint64; >> units seconds; >> default 2; >> description >> "The length of time (in seconds) that the >> Session-Reflector should continue to respond to >> packets belonging to this TWAMP-Test session after >> a Stop-Sessions TWAMP-Control message has been >> received. >>=20 >> This value will be placed in the Timeout field of >> the Request-TW-Session message."; >> reference >> "RFC 5357: TWAMP, Section 3.8"; >> } >=20 > This reference (Section 3.8 "Stop-Sessions") doesn't seem right. = Perhaps > section 3.5 was intended? Possibly even section 3.5 of RFC 4656 would = be more > appropriate. Ok. Will change reference to Section 3.5. But since we say that the = timeout in TWAMP is interpreted differently from the definition in RFC = 4656, it would be confusing to add reference to RFC 4656. >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > Page 36: >=20 >> type union { >> type uint32 { >> range 0..4294967294; >> } >> type enumeration { >> enum forever { >> description >> "Indicates that the test session SHALL be >> repeated *forever* using the information in >> repeat-interval parameter, and SHALL NOT >> decrement the value."; >> } >> } >=20 > If I had to guess here, the intention is to reserve the value = 4294967295 for > "forever," but the model doesn't appear to do that. The preceding = definition > defines "forever" as "0", which would appear to conflict with a repeat = value > of 0. See RFC 7950 =C2=A79.6.4.2: >=20 >> If a value is not specified, then one will be automatically assigned. >> If the "enum" substatement is the first one defined, the assigned >> value is zero (0); otherwise, the assigned value is one greater than >> the current highest enum value (i.e., the highest enum value, >> implicit or explicit, prior to the current "enum" substatement in the >> parent "type" statement). >=20 > I think this should be: >=20 > type enumeration { > enum forever { > value 4294967295; > description > "Indicates that the test session SHALL be > repeated *forever* using the information in > repeat-interval parameter, and SHALL NOT > decrement the value."; > } Done. >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > The examples include the address "192.68.0.2" in several places. = Please change > this to an address in one of the RFC 5737 ranges (e.g., 192.0.2.2). Fixed.=20 Thanks. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Fri Jun 22 12:22:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B4E130EC0 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:22:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hI9z7n7cyj9w for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E89B7130ED6 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049295.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w5MJM7LA007441; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:22:21 -0400 Received: from tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (sbcsmtp3.sbc.com [144.160.112.28]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 2js6hh0wr5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:22:21 -0400 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5MJMKsb127675; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:22:20 -0500 Received: from zlp30497.vci.att.com (zlp30497.vci.att.com [135.46.181.156]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5MJMGDc127529; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:22:16 -0500 Received: from zlp30497.vci.att.com (zlp30497.vci.att.com [127.0.0.1]) by zlp30497.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 088804000393; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 19:22:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (unknown [135.41.1.46]) by zlp30497.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id C824140003B0; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 19:22:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5MJMFQN010609; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:22:15 -0500 Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (mail-blue.research.att.com [135.207.178.11]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5MJMA76010263; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:22:11 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57D6CF1FCB; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:21:55 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Yaakov Stein , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: section 10 of draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-06 Thread-Index: AdPAivPtJ2T5gfyoS3296ZE7rJB9PQCKhAWQEekm7DA= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 19:22:09 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92F7FE@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF490FB9EA@njmtexg5.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF490FB9EA@njmtexg5.research.att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.201.95.59] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-22_03:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1806220213 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] section 10 of draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-06 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 19:22:24 -0000 Hi Yaakov, A belated thank you for your review. I copied your March 20 message into a text file to be sure I could work on the reply & edits on the flight home, then forgot to send the=20 reply in the few hours before my next flight out (and the that meeting spawned a memory wipe). Mea culpa. Almost every issue you noted has been fixed (can't do much about that 93 page thing). There is still some time for further edits if wanted.=20 @IPPM: I'm also looking for comments on the DNS section 6. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin has exchanged some mail with me on this section (thanks), resulting in some clarifications. We still seek to close this open issue for DNS: @@@@ would require support of ID generation=20 and population in the Message. An alternative would be=20 to use a random Source port on the Query Message,=20 but we would choose ONE method before proceeding. @@@@ regards, and hope to see you in Montreal, Al > From: Yaakov Stein [mailto:yaakov_s@rad.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 4:44 PM > To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) ; ippm@ietf.org > Subject: section 10 of draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-06 >=20 > Al, >=20 > I didn't know what I was getting myself into when I volunteered to look > over even a small portion of this document. > 93 pages ???? We have actually removed tons of redundancy, but the agreement was to prepare a full-combinatorial registry, with much specificity. >=20 > So, here are some preliminary remarks, mostly limited to the first half o= f > section 10 > (although some of what I have to say applies to other portions of the > document). >=20 >=20 > RTDelay ... The Observation Point [RFC7011] is assumed to be in the netwo= rk > at a remote point from the end hosts. > -> > While TCP runs end-to-end between two hosts, here we consider the > measurement of RTDelay based on a single Observation Point located > somewhere in the network. >=20 > and similarly: > RTLoss ... The Observation Point [RFC7011] is assumed to be in the networ= k > at a remote point from the end hosts. > -> > We consider the measurement of the RTLoss based on a single Observation > Point located somewhere in the network. >=20 Done for Loss and Delay. > Cleaner wording: > Although there is no RFC that describes passive measurement of Round-Trip > Delay, the parallel definition for Active measurement is given in RFC 268= 1 > [RFC2681]. > (and I saw many more examples of this verbose referencing) >=20 That's because there is a requirement for this section to include a full bibliographic reference to an immutable doc. > With the Observation Point [RFC7011] (OP) located between the > hosts participating in the TCP connection, the Round-trip Delay > metric requires two individual measurements between the OP and each > host, such that the Spatial Composition [RFC6049] of the measurements > yields a Round-trip Delay singleton. > Well, actually 7011 never explicitly discusses composition of Round- > trip metrics, only one-way ones. I would simply say > It is evident that the Round-trip Delay singleton is obtained by adding > the two measurements. (and that would save some text later on how to > perform the composition) That's correct about RFC7011, because it is RFC6049 on Spatial Composition that deals with combining two delay singletons or statistics.=20 Added: (we are extending the composition of one-way subpath delays to subpath=20 round-trip delay). >=20 > The direction of SYN transfer is the Forward direction of transmission, > -> > The direction of SYN transfer is considered the Forward direction of > transmission, OK >=20 > Examples may be found in the TCP timestamp fields. > Unclear to me. > In fact, the insistence on using the timestamp field is not clear to me= . > Although the timestamp option is often used, it IS only an option. > Since you are working from a single OP, you can get away without the > timestamp. > Yes, I saw the comment on packets on only one side of the OP, and am no= t > convinced that there aren't enough of the contrary case. We are willing to use any fields that help to establish correspondence. the previous sentence says: In the definitions below, Corresponding Packets are transferred in=20 different directions and convey a common value in a TCP header field=20 that establishes correspondence (to the extent possible). >=20 > Note that when OP is located at host A or host B, one of the > terms composing RTDelay will be zero or negligible. > Since you state that the OP is "in the network" (and explicitly add that > it is remote to the hosts), > I guess this is limited to the case where a router itself is the TCP end- > point. Is that what is meant? > In any case, you should either remove this remark, or the statement that > the OP is remote from the end-point. >=20 Ok, let's be more inclusive, in connection with the word remote (but a search today failed to find the word remote in the text ??) s/located/typically located/ where applicable. > TCP segments are normally monotonically increasing. > I think this should be > TCP segments are transmitted with monotonically increasing sequence > numbers, but may these segments may be received out of order. Ok > Also, "reordered packets" should be "misordered packets" or "out of order > packets". Reordering is what the host does. Sorry, but we re-used Paxson's terminology in RFC4337, and here. >=20 > Packet Losses can be inferred from: ... Duplicate segments: > Not only - duplication can occur due to malfunctioning network elements > too. Yes, bizarre network behavior breaks many inferences, let's just accept tha= t. >=20 > Why the requirement for DSCP to be set to zero? Perhaps I am interested i= n > the RTT for a given DSCP value. > (I saw this over and over in the doc) We made DSCP a *Fixed* Parameter in these registered metrics, set at BE, so that it corresponds to the most common case. This does not preclude tests with other DSCP, where YMMV (w.r.t. performance). =20 >=20 > I am not sure why you specify that the TCP checksum must be calculated. > That is standard TCP, and does not have to be specified here! Removed (this may be a holdover from previous UDP entries) > If you do want to, then please specify the IP checksum, the TTL, etc. TTL or Hop Limit are now mentioned in the Run-time Parameters section. >=20 > Once again, I am not sure why you insist on the timestamp option. If available, it makes correlation much easier. >=20 > The principal source of RTDelay error is the host processing time > Another possibility to combat this is minimum gating (like in NTP). >=20 Yes, We mention that under Delay Heuristics. > Nits: >=20 > Examinating -> examining thx >=20 > Why Corresponding Packets (capital P) but Qualified packets (small p) ? >=20 now cap-P=20 > The Strowes reference is: > Strowes, S., "Passively Measuring TCP Round Trip Times", Communications o= f > the ACM, Vol. 56 No. 10, Pages 57-64. thanks, Done! >=20 >=20 >=20 > Y(J)S From nobody Fri Jun 22 13:15:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7745E130EE9; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 13:15:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1GgOVQWrvbpJ; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 13:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 754C4130EE7; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 13:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049459.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049459.ppops.net-00191d01. 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(GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5MKFF0c023685; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:15:16 -0500 Received: from mail-azure.research.att.com (mail-azure.research.att.com [135.207.255.18]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5MKF4HQ022206; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:15:05 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-azure.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADA1DE1073; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:15:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:14:48 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Warren Kumari CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org" , Brian Trammell , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , Nevil Brownlee , IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) 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<4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92F826@njmtexg4.research.att.com> From: Warren Kumari Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 18:13:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" Cc: Brian Trammell , IETF IPPM WG , Nevil Brownlee , The IESG , "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org" , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005d5b9b056f4258a8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 22:13:54 -0000 --0000000000005d5b9b056f4258a8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 4:15 PM MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote: > Hi Warren, > > > > Before you head South, let=E2=80=99s close the book on your last comment: > > > > *=E2=80=A6* > > > S 4. > > > the packet, and the headers appear in the standard-conforming > > > order (Next Header). > > > > > > o All parameters used in the header and Extension Headers are > found > > > in the IANA Registry of Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6) > > > Parameters, partly specified in [IANA-6P]. > > > > I'm confused again -- this says that all parameters must be in the > > "IANA Registry of Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6) > > Parameters". Ok, cool. > > But which part of that registry isn't specified by > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > > 3A__www.iana.org_assignments_ipv6-2Dparameters_ipv6-2Dparameters.xhtml- > > 3F&d=3DDwICaQ&c=3DLFYZ- > > > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DG64fdxkDTnWJmF84jgKSBF8S= _wrWq > > gmTfJnCQ7jGiW0&s=3DgtOpgKho-LZA3yORp0NrSwzxLVUdL66yFsnsfj3pYmg&e=3D > > > > (why the "partly")? > > > [acm] > I don't recollect why we said "partly" there. > But this is recently edited text (Last Call comments, I think) > and we should be able to resurrect the rationale... > > > > =E2=80=8BThat would be nice -- if there is a problem with the registry, i= t seems > that we can / should fix it. I'm also not quite sure how I'd determine if > I'm in compliance with the above. > > > > Anyway, all my comments were just comments, thanks for addressing them. > > W=E2=80=8B > > *[acm] * > > *You=E2=80=99re welcome, I=E2=80=99m still waiting to hear from co-author= s on this one.* > > *Al* > > > > *[acm] * > > > > *It seems that the word partly was left behind when we changed the* > > *text from:* > > > > * o All parameters used in the header and Extension Headers are found* > > * in the IANA Registry of Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)* > > * Parameters, partly specified in [RFC7045].* > > > > *where we cited the RFC and not the Registry, and partly was correct!* > > *I'll simply delete "partly".* > > > Ah, awesome, thanks! W *thanks for catching my editing error!* > > *Al* > > > > > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf --0000000000005d5b9b056f4258a8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri,= Jun 22, 2018 at 4:15 PM MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acm@research.att.com> wrote:

Hi Warren,

=C2=A0

Before you head South, let=E2=80=99s close the= book on your last comment:

<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:bl= ack">=C2=A0

=E2=80=A6

> S 4.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the packet, and the headers appe= ar in the standard-conforming
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0order (Next Header).
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 All parameters used in the header and= Extension Headers are found
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in the IANA Registry of Internet= Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Parameters, partly specified in = [IANA-6P].
>
> I'm confused again -- this says that all parameters must be in the=
> "IANA Registry of Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)
> Parameters". Ok, cool.
> But which part of that registry isn't specified by
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__www.iana.org_assignments_ipv6-2Dparameters_ipv6-2Dparameters.xhtml= -
> 3F&d=3DDwICaQ&c=3DLFYZ-
> o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DG64fdxkDTnWJm= F84jgKSBF8S_wrWq
> gmTfJnCQ7jGiW0&s=3DgtOpgKho-LZA3yORp0NrSwzxLVUdL66yFsnsfj3pYmg&= ;e=3D
>
> (why the "partly")?
>
[acm]
I don't recollect why we said "partly" there.
But this is recently edited text (Last Call comments, I think)
and we should be able to resurrect the rationale...

=C2=A0

=E2=80=8BThat would be nice -- if there is a problem with the registry, it seem= s that we can / should fix it. I'm also not quite sure how I'd dete= rmine if I'm in compliance with the above.

=C2=A0

Anyway, all my comments were just comments, thanks for addressing th= em.

W=E2= =80=8B

[acm]

You=E2=80=99re welcome, I=E2=80=99m stil= l waiting to hear from co-authors on this one.=

Al

=C2=A0

= [acm]

=C2=A0

It seems that the word partly was left b= ehind when we changed the

text from:<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 All parameters used= in the header and Extension Headers are found=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in the IA= NA Registry of Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)<= /b>

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Parameters, partly specified in [RFC7045].

=C2=A0

where we cited the RFC and not the Regis= try, and partly was correct!

I'll simply delete "partly"= ;.

=C2=A0


Ah, awesome,= thanks!

W


thanks for catching my editing error!=

Al

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

--
I don't think the execut= ion is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.
Thi= s is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret = at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf
--0000000000005d5b9b056f4258a8-- From nobody Mon Jun 25 11:35:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D099130E1E for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:35:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=barefootnetworks.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CQanjI6RPUpw for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9B0A130E12 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id e16-v6so10360258wmd.0 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:35:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=barefootnetworks.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4IIQVAVPGUV0kXeOKE8bePKEjG/26jJhYkCYGzG8YjE=; b=i75ihjJpNoDMt3YyhPgZ3jB/9R6N/c0lKOIfnnLGEKLYYZPYOdH8C1xSiit+DLTUso 8QbFyO2mQ/+MKGs1RRrZ/1qUTrsjkheZ9sWFayQ8j9DXBhQ78M0SXs/lvioeM5b6t1Oi xxkAymE4sAJYL54TSTDTF2D7BQQORDfaUCmvA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=4IIQVAVPGUV0kXeOKE8bePKEjG/26jJhYkCYGzG8YjE=; b=EtH6/735PxyhhMa9WNXsZapr3J21UA+r7iyZK2DLzpRJ4bEjPHrLzPwQp5yYDZ1UFb JVpbztLYWfLlHFC6D6WhV2k4xOMQU2exL9d8gMyVvt9youBThc0p1Wp/0/AFgKTSGqJr SUpkxpu8YqPbDQwjn8XXOihxRCWhWuqoQgahhtDvFl0omicPgK0uXeayxAJd5uY0oDV8 CX+bNHGiDNLkBHoWvvAVYtxyzV+WENKc8ZJ/8ik81hIXqBwDlXsbKZts1O/wNudr2vGN O0uBWTZuWjvstCRvxDJ6vyQQHSciupRpjoxBNYYc0vQY78PXEIzhoPQjmCRHywteC/R1 BkuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E13cxmUwZYUAMLcGfEVN9Kpvbr7gVXuCaQDCpOhumYbR/EOqhfs jZAG9n/b8L5ZV5p8GLJPx8oKienjEGgmG/agFntnC4+I X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJ3ZO/Hh/rx1aENekk4QDZQfHRPB5BYYEAu1m/iEXZUQwdoQAly1rJ2MkbEp+S5pBCAzYRESaxPAx9qKRhFTZI= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:978f:: with SMTP id z137-v6mr1961207wmd.40.1529951733288; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:35:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:adf:b2aa:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:35:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <152145238619.15900.1215599769770646577.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <152145238619.15900.1215599769770646577.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Mickey Spiegel Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:35:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000096275c056f7ba5d0" Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 18:35:38 -0000 --00000000000096275c056f7ba5d0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Please find below links to a draft on raw export of IOAM data to monitoring and analytics systems using IPFIX. This is meant to complement the ongoing IPPM work on IOAM in the data plane. Suggestions and comments would be much appreciated. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 2:39 AM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt To: Frank Brockners , Shwetha Bhandari < shwethab@cisco.com>, Mickey Spiegel , Ramesh Sivakolundu A new version of I-D, draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Mickey Spiegel and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport Revision: 00 Title: In-situ OAM raw data export with IPFIX Document date: 2018-03-19 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 19 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-spiegel-ippm- ioam-rawexport-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam- rawexport/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam- rawexport-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-spiegel-ippm- ioam-rawexport Abstract: In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet traverses a path between two points in the network. This document discusses how In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) information can be exported in raw, i.e. uninterpreted, format from network devices to systems, such as monitoring or analytics systems using IPFIX. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --00000000000096275c056f7ba5d0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please find below links to a draft on raw export of IOAM d= ata to monitoring and analytics systems using IPFIX. This is meant to compl= ement the ongoing IPPM work on IOAM in the data plane.

Suggestions and comments would be much appreciated.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, = Mar 19, 2018 at 2:39 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-spie= gel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt
To: Frank Brockners <fbrockne@cisco.com>, Shwetha Bhandari <shwethab@cisco.com>, Mickey Spiegel= <mspiegel@barefootnetw= orks.com>, Ramesh Sivakolundu <sramesh@cisco.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Mickey Spiegel and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-= rawexport
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In-situ OAM raw data export with I= PFIX
Document date:=C2=A0 2018-03-19
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 19
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-spie= gel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-= rawexport/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00<= /a>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-spiegel-ippm-i= oam-rawexport


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) rec= ords
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operational and telemetry information in the packet while the = packet
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traverses a path between two points in the network.=C2=A0 This= document
=C2=A0 =C2=A0discusses how In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintena= nce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(IOAM) information can be exported in raw, i.e. uninterpreted,= format
=C2=A0 =C2=A0from network devices to systems, such as monitoring or analyti= cs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0systems using IPFIX.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


--00000000000096275c056f7ba5d0-- From nobody Mon Jun 25 14:56:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB943130E65 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:56:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=barefootnetworks.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NDIer5eZgarT for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x232.google.com (mail-wr0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C1BF130E5E for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x232.google.com with SMTP id k6-v6so15141134wrp.4 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:56:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=barefootnetworks.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1nw38tIpaEw5oT/hOlXdCKl9qdZctV1HGALtSBfPGZc=; b=giz6HokBDcWZ66DJjTFTeuXdRYhBxsanTFmKcJNKo5vbB1LKBgLitYuL3I1U56+PGv lcjMd7FZooWeA+KLUU3lmoB5HHf0dronALcaME1N5EnUcp2Enrib3xxpbXWzTmJnXlbq VkeVQbwK7gtMEXMPKdbLEYT5hnYaTHK+eRoH0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=1nw38tIpaEw5oT/hOlXdCKl9qdZctV1HGALtSBfPGZc=; b=qN17epiLoNIiA/sUvz5u2rqvGzMznzBXg/o51CoPOnqH0NHcV9tEFFF79aByy01j2I QEuJSi2Rai5L77tV3V4V7wwgcqLFDGxPH43NDIJ1LDg+n4H0lBxrxQ3AwXDWHwIWu+Nz rJ3dh6g/QqdvusG0lVcigoobWwIPUH1xSlh1bpopiWo4R7WmpGSwcVUQeuN4m4QZIdMj 441xaHU8BDc2nOSpjCSu5dS72/bHfafSEPwJOzZ9nRuHf574vhfu+VW6xUdHTe8x7TGV bxPj6684EEMnN4euHpBUh2plLGsIGaPtKYjWDsL0qXrjENbEO7o4TbCVdNcyT8Tfbs39 kvgA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3CYIKx2pp1/PLtk1VejWQ8tNaRWK7YZfYE8kcf9WjWd28XduD3 UHizaXjEwKKbCNaV7wvov1oe42F6XSgs9fHEzsGJf8ME X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpexbPUxFYXIkx9YDzIGCVqUL+JcC2Eyu6aROWY53gtm+Xo2nARrsGGQq+hZn9l+gMycKz/Bp5PCrdJVK2TzYEc= X-Received: by 2002:adf:e285:: with SMTP id v5-v6mr10751197wri.54.1529963810516; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:56:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:adf:b2aa:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:56:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <152145238619.15900.1215599769770646577.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Mickey Spiegel Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:56:50 -0700 Message-ID: To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000720791056f7e75a5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New Version Notification for draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 21:56:56 -0000 --000000000000720791056f7e75a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Mickey Spiegel < mspiegel@barefootnetworks.com> wrote: > Please find below links to a draft on raw export of IOAM data to > monitoring and analytics systems using IPFIX. This is meant to complement > the ongoing IPPM work on IOAM in the data plane. > > Suggestions and comments would be much appreciated. > To the best of our knowledge, the examples in section 4 of this draft follow the requirements in the IPFIX RFCs. However, while writing this up we noticed some opportunities to improve encoding efficiency, if it were possible to update the "descriptions" of some existing IPFIX information elements in the IANA registry at https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipfix/ipfix.xhtml. This would be significant when IOAM raw export is generated directly from highly optimized data planes processing billions of packets per second. How could we go about updating these "descriptions"? Could we propose modifications in this draft itself? Or does this need to be proposed somewhere else, preferably without having to go through the entire RFC process? Some details follow. *Alignment of multiple records with variable length fields in a data set* >From RFC 5153: *4.4.3* *. Alignment of Records within a Set* ... Data Records can be aligned within a Set by appending instances of the paddingOctets Information Element at the end of the Record. Since all Data Records within a Set have the same structure and size, aligning one Data Record implies aligning all the Data Records within a single Set. If there are variable length fields within the Data Record, this seems to be insufficient. If the variable length field can vary in length by any amount, not necessarily a multiple of 4n, then how can alignment of data records within a set be achieved? For our purposes, the question is really around variable length instances of *313 ipHeaderPacketSection*. In the IANA registry, there is one sentence of concern in the description: When the sectionExportedOctets field corresponding to this Information Element does not exist, this Information Element SHOULD have a variable length and MUST NOT be padded. In case the length of the IP packet is small and is not a multiple of 4 octets, could we use a variable length instance of *ipHeaderPacketSection* without *sectionExportedOctets*, setting the *Length* to a multiple of 4 octets and inserting 0 to 3 octets of padding between the length of the IP packet and the 4 octet aligned *Length* value? The collector could figure out what is happening by observing the discrepancy between the IP packet length and the *Length* of *ipHeaderPacketSection*. *Overly Restrictive Descriptions of ipHeaderPacketSection and dataLinkFrameSection* For highly optimized data plane implementations in hardware or software, every additional field eats up more resources. The descriptions of *ipHeaderPacketSection* and *dataLinkFrameSection* in the IANA registry require use of additional fields in some cases, but this seems to be unnecessary. *313 ipHeaderPacketSection:* When the sectionExportedOctets field corresponding to this Information Element does not exist, this Information Element SHOULD have a variable length and MUST NOT be padded. In this case *sectionExportedOctets* seems somewhat redundant with the length in the IP packet. Why can't one omit *sectionExportedOctets* and still use a fixed size *ipHeaderPacketSection* with padding? *315 dataLinkFrameSection* Same issue with *sectionExportedOctets* as *ipHeaderPacketSection*. In addition: Further Information Elements, i.e., dataLinkFrameType and dataLinkFrameSize, are needed to specify the data link type and the size of the data link frame of this Information Element. A set of these Information Elements MAY be contained in a structured data type, as expressed in [ RFC6313 ]. Or a set of these Information Elements MAY be contained in one Flow Record as shown in Appendix B of [ RFC7133 ]. Why can't there be a default value of *Ethernet II* when *dataLinkFrameSection* is present but *dataLinkFrameType* is omitted? Why does *dataLinkFrameSize* need to be present? In case of a truncated packet section, is this supposed to be the length before truncation, or the size of the truncated portion? In case of a variable length encoding, wouldn't the *Length* of *dataLinkFrameSection* be enough? Suggestions and comments regarding these issues would be appreciated. Mickey > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 2:39 AM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexp > ort-00.txt > To: Frank Brockners , Shwetha Bhandari < > shwethab@cisco.com>, Mickey Spiegel , > Ramesh Sivakolundu > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Mickey Spiegel and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport > Revision: 00 > Title: In-situ OAM raw data export with IPFIX > Document date: 2018-03-19 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 19 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > drafts/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/d > raft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/html/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport > > > Abstract: > In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records > operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet > traverses a path between two points in the network. This document > discusses how In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance > (IOAM) information can be exported in raw, i.e. uninterpreted, format > from network devices to systems, such as monitoring or analytics > systems using IPFIX. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > > --000000000000720791056f7e75a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Mickey Spiegel <m= spiegel@barefootnetworks.com> wrote:
Please find below links to a draft on raw export of IOAM = data to monitoring and analytics systems using IPFIX. This is meant to comp= lement the ongoing IPPM work on IOAM in the data plane.

<= div>Suggestions and comments would be much appreciated.

To the best of our knowledge, the examples in= section 4 of this draft follow the requirements in the IPFIX RFCs.

However, while writing this up we noticed some opportunit= ies to improve encoding efficiency, if it were possible to update the "= ;descriptions" of some existing IPFIX information elements in the IANA= registry at=C2=A0https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipfix/ipfix.x= html. This would be significant when IOAM raw export is generated direc= tly from highly optimized data planes processing billions of packets per se= cond.

How could we go about updating these "d= escriptions"?
Could we propose modifications in this draft i= tself?
Or does this need to be proposed somewhere else, preferabl= y without having to go through the entire RFC process?

=
Some details follow.

Alignment of multiple records with variable length f= ields in a data set

=C2=A0

From RFC 5153:

=C2=A0

4.4.3.=C2=A0 A= lignment of Records within a Set

=C2=A0=C2=A0 ...

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Data Records ca= n be aligned within a Set by appending instances of

=C2=A0=C2=A0 the paddingOcte= ts Information Element at the end of the Record.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Since all Data = Records within a Set have the same structure and size,

=C2=A0=C2=A0 aligning one Da= ta Record implies aligning all the Data Records within

=C2=A0=C2=A0 a single Set.

=C2=A0

If there are variable length fields w= ithin the Data Record, this seems to be insufficient. If the variable lengt= h field can vary in length by any amount, not necessarily a multiple of 4n,= then how can alignment of data records within a set be achieved?

=C2=A0

For our purposes, the question is rea= lly around variable length instances of 313 ipHeaderPacketSection. I= n the IANA registry, there is one sentence of concern in the description:

=C2=A0

When the sectionExportedOctets field correspo= nding to this Information Element does not exist, this Information Element = SHOULD have a variable length and MUST NOT be padded.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

In case the length of the IP packet is sm= all and is not a multiple of 4 octets, could we use a variable length insta= nce of ipHeaderPacketSection without sectionExportedOctets, s= etting the Length to a multiple of 4 octets and inserting 0 to 3 oct= ets of padding between the length of the IP packet and the 4 octet aligned = Length=C2=A0value? The collector could figure out what is happening = by observing the discrepancy between the IP packet length and the Length= of ipHeaderPacketSection.

=C2=A0

Overly Restrictive Descriptions of= ipHeaderPacketSection and dataLinkFrameSection

=C2=A0

For highly optimized data plane imple= mentations in hardware or software, every additional field eats up more res= ources. The descriptions of ipHeaderPacketSection and dataLinkFra= meSection in the IANA registry require use of additional fields in some= cases, but this seems to be unnecessary.

=C2=A0

313 ipHeaderPacketSection:<= /i>

=C2=A0

When the=C2=A0sectionExportedOctets=C2=A0fiel= d corresponding to this Information Element does not exist, this Infor= mation Element SHOULD have a variable length and MUST NOT be padded.=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0

In this case sectionExportedOctets= =C2=A0seems somewhat redundant with the length in the IP packet. Why ca= n't one omit sectionExportedOctets and still use a fixed size ipHeaderPacketSection with padding?

=C2=A0

315 dataLinkFrameSection

=C2=A0

Same issue with sectionExportedOct= ets as ipHeaderPacketSection.

=C2=A0

In addition:

=C2=A0

Further Information Elements, i.e., dataLinkF= rameType and dataLinkFrameSize, are needed to specify the data link type an= d the size of the data link frame of this Information Element. A set of the= se Information Elements MAY be contained in a structured data type, as expr= essed in [RFC6313]. Or = a set of these Information Elements MAY be contained in one Flow Record as = shown in Appendix B of [RFC7133<= /span>].

=C2=A0

Why can't there be a default valu= e of Ethernet II when dataLinkFrameSection is present but = dataLinkFrameType is omitted?

=C2=A0

Why does dataLinkFrameSize nee= d to be present?

In case of a truncated packet section= , is this supposed to be the length before truncation, or the size of the t= runcated portion?

In case of a variable length encoding= , wouldn't the Length of dataLinkFrameSection be enough?<= /font>



Suggestions and comm= ents regarding these issues would be appreciated.


Mickey

=C2=A0

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>=
Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 2:39 AM
Subject: New Version Notification= for draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt
To: Frank Brockners &= lt;fbrockne@cisco.c= om>, Shwetha Bhandari <shwethab@cisco.com>, Mickey Spiegel <mspiegel@barefootnetwo= rks.com>, Ramesh Sivakolundu <sramesh@cisco.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Mickey Spiegel and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawex= port
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In-situ OAM raw data export with I= PFIX
Document date:=C2=A0 2018-03-19
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 19
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-spie= gel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00<= /a>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) rec= ords
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operational and telemetry information in the packet while the = packet
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traverses a path between two points in the network.=C2=A0 This= document
=C2=A0 =C2=A0discusses how In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintena= nce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(IOAM) information can be exported in raw, i.e. uninterpreted,= format
=C2=A0 =C2=A0from network devices to systems, such as monitoring or analyti= cs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0systems using IPFIX.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



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charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5B60D489BBA0CE4584B8C08FC26F0B67@CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: kaloom.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8261e6c4-19d4-447e-20ab-08d5db1d5166 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Jun 2018 04:28:50.8725 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 47d58e26-f796-48e8-ac40-1c365c204513 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: YQXPR0101MB1816 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 04:28:54 -0000 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> It would be good if the yang model can be updated to refer to the NTPv4 >> specification (RFC5905) for the timestamps. It is currently referring to= the >> obsolete NTPv3 specification (RFC1305 which is not listed in the referen= ces >> section) to describe the timestamp format. >>=20 >=20 > Will update the reference to NTP in the YANG model to NTPv4. The draft ha= s the updated reference to NTPv4 as you suggest. Thanks Mahesh. That would take care of both the comment points in one go :-= ). 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([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nfxZHCekNtzN for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 01:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gozo.iway.ch (gozo.iway.ch [IPv6:2001:8e0:40:325::36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B2BE130F7B for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 01:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gozo.iway.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B3A340E5A for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 10:46:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ACF/6030.16908); Tue, 26 Jun 2018 10:46:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from switchplus-mail.ch (switchplus-mail.ch [212.25.8.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gozo.iway.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 10:46:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [195.176.111.26] (account ietf@trammell.ch HELO public-docking-cx-4089.ethz.ch) by switchplus-mail.ch (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.18) with ESMTPSA id 59410609 for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 10:46:06 +0200 From: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_205C3B82-DAD4-40A8-A262-6434F38E7E00"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Message-Id: <655540A0-FB1C-44AE-B148-8B8F16682C2E@trammell.ch> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 10:46:05 +0200 To: IETF IPPM WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ippm-port-twamp-test-01 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 08:46:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_205C3B82-DAD4-40A8-A262-6434F38E7E00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings, all, This message begins Working Group Last Call on = draft-ietf-ippm-port-twamp-test-01, to finish during our meeting at IETF = 102 in Montreal (17:30 UTC Wednesday 18 July 2018). Please send last call comments to ippm@ietf.org, indicating whether you = believe the draft is ready to send up to the IESG and if not, why not. Many thanks, cheers, Brian (as IPPM co-chair) --Apple-Mail=_205C3B82-DAD4-40A8-A262-6434F38E7E00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEkCTSTp2bIB6fBRHIihK3vwvqRqMFAlsx/U0ACgkQihK3vwvq RqPOiBAAhdqMB2UXF+0JGk1p0eREKYOigCKLQLkDJDdFLi66aLyHcKD7TwDgXAWB 0myfInM8qvAsui/rnm1j3ZJLydZMh2/JYpNU5QEHTDOTrQ7YOrecKNvxZRSwsYnz SfTQ6X72IIudRAm/4qn33yFeXZrGU55krhjr0/SNoEMZVxMfev2hyOkokSYueMqe rkgfaPcxJ4YkY5DjkJilnUdLtDxEbUG3geFi6k5wMVQXcoZjZ/bQnF0GZO+NB4nc hQn1HxFcoLDBOUFWlu3+PfG9Wz+EPxRKo7/ZHWehoKa1k6SYc8q3PxxxMHZUfmNT VucBcqptvY/wuSMws+99F12b8Qn/CErPGzDXMPy5Fgb+o4xJ9eC6wxm0obV7UeEj ksopqUfy+4R2PbLCAwOgabvogAyX0mNK+N/sUToe4B3OmITtDp1WoSBLnzM+o6mp DkjuVOofVJZgWcGovncFI0KAVpAwv6KHXckh7QIs4IugFzBR2Pj/hCz9avOUYI+0 gFN2aJFZB/eqvNCRR5QuKvOzm6B2Omis0t481MZOMKulIiajGXgcDRAs47PH8Otm doBCHqIKEeHajYrLqycZ5TL8Kf/NV1pEVtylpv8pcofHl+TGQE8fujAf9W5tY09g YraYwEk/iSrlEIvAdv3tlFUoYxPGp6F40ldy8sxpZdYXrf5MHvA= =WZeP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_205C3B82-DAD4-40A8-A262-6434F38E7E00-- From nobody Tue Jun 26 07:26:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085F1130E18 for ; 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Tue, 26 Jun 2018 07:26:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com (nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com [17.128.115.155]) by ma1-mtap-s01.corp.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.3.20180614 64bit (built Jun 14 2018)) with ESMTPS id <0PAX007EAPFW2AB0@ma1-mtap-s01.corp.apple.com> for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 07:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from process_viserion-daemon.nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com by nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.3.20180614 64bit (built Jun 14 2018)) id <0PAX00A00OQ1YS00@nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com> for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 07:26:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: 60eba1048664b2c2d1e823e0b55422b4 X-Va-E-CD: 60d95195f0d2d7fff3a981d47c1aab9a X-Va-R-CD: 479c7f5f8787b1e6431fd6ece56f57d9 X-Va-CD: 0 X-Va-ID: 3df0e9fe-2e78-4b58-a505-506007009aa2 X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: 159681ac17b4bf28eab1955e26a63a9c X-V-E-CD: 60d95195f0d2d7fff3a981d47c1aab9a X-V-R-CD: 479c7f5f8787b1e6431fd6ece56f57d9 X-V-CD: 0 X-V-ID: 4cec78d1-5820-4199-a8f5-39d75efd1695 Received: from process_milters-daemon.nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com by nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.3.20180614 64bit (built Jun 14 2018)) id <0PAX00300PDXAE00@nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com> for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 07:26:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:,, definitions=2018-06-26_08:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Scanner-Instance: nwk-grpmailp-qapp15.corp.apple.com-10000_instance1 Received: from [17.234.127.144] (unknown [17.234.127.144]) by nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.3.20180614 64bit (built Jun 14 2018)) with ESMTPSA id <0PAX00NW6PFV1320@nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com> for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 07:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Sender: tpauly@apple.com From: Tommy Pauly Message-id: <5F5DEFE8-D004-4368-B82C-15BC680AF813@apple.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 07:26:18 -0700 To: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.13.1) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrEIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiqOHDqsvraxRtsLpX3KLnwTtmB0aPJUt+ MgUwRnHZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlTN8wg7Wggblixu/r7A2M+5i6GDk5JARMJB5v3cHaxcjFISSw j0ni+JF37CAJXgFBiR+T77F0MXJwMAvISxw8LwsSZhbQkvj+qJUFov4wk8Sqgz+YIZw5TBKz lqxkhpjKLvHn1w6wZgkBbYlvV20hwtoS/SubmWHsx3O62CBsLokFW0+zQpTrSlx6CHUbm8T6 E0ugbC2Jy+tnMcLYB1c8Y4exb9/cAVXDKXH+y0SouI7E0Y/72CFOm80k0db4mBFifrbE+S2J EDXBEn8O9UCdv5RJ4tHJt2AnCwtISGzeA1bDJqAicfzbBrCThQWMJRZ9m8gCCR4bicV75rOC 2CwCqhJNM7aB3SACDLbWh11Qd6pJzL/9gnUCo9wspBCdhQjRWUghuoCReRWjUG5iZo5uZp65 XmJBQU6qXnJ+7iZGUCRPtxPbwfhwldUhRgEORiUe3hv2RtFCrIllxZW5hxilOViUxHkvTzWM FhJITyxJzU5NLUgtii8qzUktPsTIxMEp1cCYXjTfhE0796nC87XTVBi+TCkXrJAwzLWvtS2v /MQmpet25b2mGf+5Ll0X79yXr4rnRB2Yuv1ARd7aiYeYXNbkdxl7v1HO5Vu775lrnglXg92E F0Xaa8KZb16z3Z+mdPFEPoN14oZ56t0z5qVw/rsxeyHrHfaIQ6e2Mefprhfos1m/rVq+IUuJ pTgj0VCLuag4EQDubxgDxQIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Draft IPPM agenda for IETF 102 in Montreal X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 14:26:24 -0000 The initial agenda for the IETF 102 (Montreal) IPPM WG meeting is available here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/agenda-102-ippm-00 We have a 90 minute slot, and many active working group and related documents to go through in that time! If you see any issues, please reply to the list, or let the chairs know directly. Best, Tommy Pauly IPPM WG Co-Chair From nobody Tue Jun 26 09:32:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AAEF13109F; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:32:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oT-EMBLqo6Ph; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x232.google.com (mail-pl0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A495130E09; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 31-v6so8802670plc.4; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:32:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=hAvPy80xKE8rI3padky4A3oMgL/EzfCY57O8ySEh0hU=; b=U528nzdc1ornn29/cEBPYvy6mS2YGOsCt0liJ9/OsHgzJakqAfQ2AYxgV+7iaJniO0 fxjygzinrJowx8HhrWFuqqR/v/D5NF99/o2ukUizpT0Ge/X2+tpAh8/D1rPXDLvbWiu+ uUiYL/vhylh39TMKf3OLKPxCr3N7SAtolqSMPVqsLFN4JMqrs+ljM1k0Ej4YeWalEu75 Ogti7Pg5fOIiUHfM1ek1LDUG5yLxw+3ttCiijyJO60Vr/MnynAdNMMd0Qj3IXNdKbUY1 DGQdP8DHw1SoE+KF7Zo+wJTzBdEWzCfiKi1mgjRq5vxr46MiKj+9UqRwZJBiGP4IcPMq JMqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=hAvPy80xKE8rI3padky4A3oMgL/EzfCY57O8ySEh0hU=; b=g+YaTJWPQD6ZZ1s+N98bLCnX0xcM0xgbnkar4FrQOpF4pV3VJadLhFGIkpMP7bSGyE PGMUBC2SfYf4iUh7+1MPPGzXgtqVGTH6KVh0uEM1MzeFRRI9tV18XHkp4udaFXyZ9fkL PGIkjP9hlKLL1cqWzJOwEaQTUW1KfFsLomDFxrgz2ZpqSsGhmvJ3YoAQysnFcejJjTf3 duK0D1WA1n9O5mGqdsUMvQwLTIiSL1T6g/vPIzCL4aTCoK+dMrpmut0Q4ZA7fzbTLQjT 6iqH99HNxlo3j77+WvIHP8FTbL/UBmg+wwdbV2t46rDzDa0NeCJ1iJEdgQSfBr53qMpS wqWw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3WfMCf5PB72nxnkebJLLxfZP6Y6x2HThsdPGnTiwbApfylzW1X GwejZ3Y8kzFCXYl+M45Qyr+QKfR66EA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKKBF3pvFzob20A0FEbv9Ew6cN/TB4+Tu7wRn8evyVQYEj11rSENpFJwJSW6bCU0u6/AczQ29A== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:722:: with SMTP id 31-v6mr2417051pli.3.1530030735057; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.195.14.69] ([216.221.228.6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e1-v6sm3046506pgt.71.2018.06.26.09.32.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:32:14 -0700 (PDT) To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org References: <152950984681.28540.15458643208076088093.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> From: Ignas Bagdonas Message-ID: <54331c1c-02d4-b50c-07ce-43532fc86583@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:32:12 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 16:32:18 -0000 Hi Mahesh, >> 1. Operational state. Section 2 defines operational aspects of the configured >> TWAMP mechanisms as being out of scope. How does that relate to the motivation >> goals in section 1? Having no common machine readable mechanism for retrieving >> measurement results and verifying the operation of measurement processes does >> not seem to help in reducing the need for proprietary mechanisms. > The idea behind describing operational part of the model as out of scope, particularly as they relate to measurement results, relates the work that is currently going on in the “Registry of Performance Metrics (PM)”, something the IPPM WG is trying to finish. Once that work is complete, this model can be enhanced or another one written to provide the data needed for PM. That seems to be a practical way and also aligned with the current charter. While there is a question of practicality of what a configuration-only model allows to do, this is better than nothing. Gaining operational experience is needed, and we better start with a partial solution. >> 2. What is the compatibility of this model with NMDA? > This model is compatible with NMDA. Excellent. As Spencer mentioned, it may be good to have that stated specifically, as other models do. >> 3. Key storage. The document defines its own way of storing keys - while there >> are multiple existing ways to store keys (routing key-chain model, I2NSF, IPsec >> model, netconf-keystore). Why yet another key storage mechanism is required? >> What could be reused from other existing mechanisms? > Precisely. When we started work on this draft, there were plethora of ideas on how to store keys. We borrowed the idea from what is now the ietf-key-chain module to define the key chain. And we followed the KISS principle by incorporating what was absolutely needed by TWAMP. That is understood and probably can be justified for this particular model. But the cost of this approach is yet another way of storing key information. > Having the answers for the three points that you have raised, would you still have a DISCUSS. If so, which issue, do you want to see addressed? I am happy with the answers, will clear the DISCUSS. The one that I am somewhat less happy with is the key storage one - from the perspective of both model developer and application developer, additional model that does mostly the same thing is getting towards both to the duplication of the work and encouraging the divergence of the ways how similar things are done. The root of the problem is far deeper than this draft - there does not appear to be an overall coordination of how the different models bind together into something that allows to use different models in the context of the whole system. > >> A nit suggestion - YANG examples typically look more readable in JSON encoding. > I am reading this is more as a suggestion than as a nit. This might be a topic for a broader discussion of YANG model coordination - it is not in scope of this draft though. The fact is that JSON encoding looks to be easier to read than XML one, and maybe a common recommendation could be to use JSON for examples. Again, for the context of this draft this is a nit type suggestion - and it is up to authors and WG to decide whether a change is needed given that it was not discussed more broadly in the whole YANG development effort. Thank you. Ignas From nobody Tue Jun 26 09:34:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB19813109A; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:34:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ignas Bagdonas To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153003086069.591.13778881724478803480.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:34:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 16:34:22 -0000 Ignas Bagdonas has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for addressing DISCUSS comments. From nobody Tue Jun 26 13:41:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA281130ECB; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:41:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153004567765.18774.11647107691340203083@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:41:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-12.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 20:41:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Data Model Authors : Ruth Civil Al Morton Reshad Rahman Mahesh Jethanandani Kostas Pentikousis Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-12.txt Pages : 68 Date : 2018-06-26 Abstract: This document specifies a data model for client and server implementations of the Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP). The document defines the TWAMP data model through Unified Modeling Language (UML) class diagrams and formally specifies it using a NDMA- compliant YANG model. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 26 13:58:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C14B130E5D for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:58:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4-WxtYK5jZ7Y for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x22a.google.com (mail-pl0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80814130E41 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id d10-v6so9131769plo.5 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:58:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=kZ6m1jPT5hRP79IoM46wYRStYKD5FFP3g03S7Y0sk9o=; b=pfw9tCp9giSaVPeDtbzTqH6Cu0n6f+iecddsXl5pV6aGHgtfpjT6f9+6WiTwatWe3t 8E7xAt8OUexrk8Qk7I//O0LufFFLZ5/pmsKCDxUN3zJ6lFquU71ieHmcef1pBKFbaITm wxd1f6WG9hP8QySrL+pDe4kl7OfTLC8hg0VEw2FpXANgEIzXF8GAaVnED0qfrRdbWPIg zzNl8XkCAs2wm03NIIMQbBU7vhuOmvlsGkB67yJDOCBeXR9DhnR4phuAHrbupTinaYEo hN1+ub8beSHU/v8KpQ3HMilAzyZaleIRByiHxpF/eMpK5GuteR4D2anq4te6+BY3MPY7 1IxA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=kZ6m1jPT5hRP79IoM46wYRStYKD5FFP3g03S7Y0sk9o=; b=sIUAHHeTf/io5LS5fcNiosLd3uz24AIexrbwriTC9X2DJvRfOIPDE6f4G+APmedBKK oGGJ8P3eM0hjktlAY1FWC6j9YkjpQlwnoQhLID0tq2m4PSRbadK2gwyWCcAoduSl7IGN N7dhqiE3lBHs2yDxdsha8M4wuWVQtIF4LJPgJoJAPNvG2NCe6pntspCu6tGMyz4H/rku vVe3TXA48SBKNkH1lPq1F6xGs6BAy9ClyvjORpw1W7sxbQsM5IAr0iuuHyi4wNKjV9be 51mzjdLhb/FShd/l6ScGLZm0pYO05HOal7wLGPrfepoF/glR6scSyS+zj8XuxUpCyI7V 2nwQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E1ZXCOlpCzAvI7Xdc5Q9qURf2tWoxmIlOMBo3b0BtzppkvVfMVq t3jVnW2PjC83nHVXA8+zXjUyitXZ+Fw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKKCq6b47vxkrtC5g9UKQ2DL2b9eTGAngeVlBP2n6QO0u/hbKQLy9LKjJwVtJrvhzjYBjp7nSg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:778e:: with SMTP id o14-v6mr3131562pll.214.1530046727765; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:f5be:fec2:aa7a:7407? ([2601:647:4700:1280:f5be:fec2:aa7a:7407]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b62-v6sm4733478pfm.24.2018.06.26.13.58.47 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:58:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:58:45 -0700 References: <153004567765.18774.11647107691340203083@ietfa.amsl.com> To: ippm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <153004567765.18774.11647107691340203083@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-12.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 20:58:51 -0000 We, the authors, believe that this update of the draft addresses the = comments/DISCUSS that were raised as part of the IESG evaluation. Thanks. > On Jun 26, 2018, at 1:41 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the = IETF. >=20 > Title : Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) = Data Model > Authors : Ruth Civil > Al Morton > Reshad Rahman > Mahesh Jethanandani > Kostas Pentikousis > Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-12.txt > Pages : 68 > Date : 2018-06-26 >=20 > Abstract: > This document specifies a data model for client and server > implementations of the Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP). > The document defines the TWAMP data model through Unified Modeling > Language (UML) class diagrams and formally specifies it using a = NDMA- > compliant YANG model. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-12 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-12 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-12 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Tue Jun 26 14:36:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E49130E63; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 14:36:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LTy22DFBaen9; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 14:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CDD4130E46; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 14:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0048589.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0048589.ppops.net-00191d01. 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(GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5QIeSqX011527; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:40:28 -0500 Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (mail-green.research.att.com [135.207.255.15]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5QIeGwx010322; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:40:17 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D107E26AE; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 14:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 14:40:01 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Suresh Krishnan CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUCV1z1tfcpxRmFUWHbmnOolALRKRqubhggAAfrwCAAAJrAIAHH4CAgADXmPA= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 18:40:14 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A930678@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152958494006.31485.7887719162606975251.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EE6D@njmtexg4.research.att.com> <43CCA228-6735-49AF-B453-5654AC0E7B79@kaloom.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EFEE@njmtexg4.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [69.141.203.172] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A930678njmtexg4researc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-26_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA92D12F1A5; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 04:01:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153009731478.15358.11733278800399054112@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 04:01:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 11:01:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Data Fields for In-situ OAM Authors : Frank Brockners Shwetha Bhandari Carlos Pignataro Hannes Gredler John Leddy Stephen Youell Tal Mizrahi David Mozes Petr Lapukhov Remy Chang Daniel Bernier John Lemon Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-03.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2018-06-27 Abstract: In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet traverses a path between two points in the network. This document discusses the data fields and associated data types for in-situ OAM. In-situ OAM data fields can be embedded into a variety of transports such as NSH, Segment Routing, Geneve, native IPv6 (via extension header), or IPv4. In-situ OAM can be used to complement OAM mechanisms based on e.g. ICMP or other types of probe packets. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jun 27 12:42:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E2BF1292F1; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:41:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=pobox.com; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=heard@pobox.com header.d=pobox.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id scLvliMLMVT6; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (pb-smtp2.pobox.com [64.147.108.71]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7871D130E14; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2392F2AAC; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 15:41:46 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=mime-version :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; s=sasl; bh=s1X J3HEWfITbDAUeQQmYvAdDvUI=; b=IzxaMr5H9ig++IayXEyQ8vdpbqENWKwM/4l bWxpx3Q5/0TASCEsWBV4iISPO9izcVbIQCYL1MtUFJNoW3sTg9+rkkawJwU2Akus UYCUfvgaiSIYdlpYbLMZwTrRQUhx5IinbQSYnk8pY6ut3dLC5R5lthoEu3+ILtY2 JImI+euE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=mime-version :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; q=dns; s=sasl; b= GJmhlljSL3cV1vtUJjc0IHRCxjqBk45OBRNMRdDf0jj9BgtZtYBzlwDvVy0nKwBW LJYdkXwVAB4r44QHSQ/bRlCBfug7ycRZNJTUo0FmJIHOQPO8JPwawhOSSxIPIR88 pFkQV5i8O0PX31FvokSajREMlOvuQWZeey/GHE/K+oY= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7E5EF2AAA; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 15:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-oi0-f49.google.com (unknown [209.85.218.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61550F2AA5; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 15:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oi0-f49.google.com with SMTP id k81-v6so2956352oib.4; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:41:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2UFshyqTBuXU1/Ame1ogoX+WUEc6X9fVvu4RmbFAE7bVm5Q64v TQ4u0tjhrMsX3aePmZm2dQtQYMYm/z37h7mTHlo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfrsXrsqEXnpGrK6tdH6LDWyUcR1yOj7s6LESEMZ1vH891HGRbat/olTfBc0TpnMcGi4KAgPyvV2jklfDDYTV4= X-Received: by 2002:aca:dcd5:: with SMTP id t204-v6mr4237568oig.159.1530128505719; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:41:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a4a:7044:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:41:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. M. Heard" Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:41:25 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Suresh Krishnan , "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" Cc: IPPM , IPPM Chairs , Neville Brownlee , The IESG , draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000b5416056fa4ce85" X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 205C7198-7A42-11E8-ACD9-40570C78B957-06080547!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 19:41:52 -0000 --0000000000000b5416056fa4ce85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 04:34:54 +0000, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > The reason header insertion was not allowed in RFC8200 was because the > proponents of header insertion could not describe how to do header > insertion safely on the internet and were not willing to scope the header > insertion to private networks. I do not have a religious position on this > and I summarized my position in a mail to the 6man list on this issue ( > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipv6/current/msg27336.html > > ).. > > "I have heard from several persons being concerned about the possibility > of new text in 2460bis being blindly used to block header insertion work = in > the future. I just want to confirm that header insertion work can be > considered in the future, and that it should be judged on its own merits > and not be blocked solely based on the header insertion related text in > 2460bis." > > When the ippm work hits the IESG, I (if I am still on it :-)) will hold > that work to the same standard. There is some work ongoing (albeit very > slowly) in 6man to specify safe header insertion > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion-0= 3 > > > and hopefully this work will complete before the in-situ OAM work will hi= t > the IESG. If not, I see encapsulation and tight scoping as the only way > forward on this issue. > > [...] > > Given that safe header insertion/deletion is a > hard problem that has not been solved, I would remove this text or > significantly augment it to describe potential issues that may occur due = to > header insertion/deletion (similar to the sections related to 6lowpan and > translation). > > [acm] > I think we would be glad to cite several references to cover > the potential issues that you provide, but this bullet point has real > value to the measurement community. > > > Yep. That would be a good way to address this DISCUSS point, because I > will clear right away as long as the issues are put forth just like the > extensive work you have done in Section 5 for the other *similar* > transforms. > *[acm]* > *As I said above, we need some help here. We have already cited:* > > The topic of IPv6 Extension Headers brings current controversies into > focus as noted by [RFC6564 ] and = [ > RFC7045 ]. > > *in the sentences leading to this bullet list. If you (or others)* > *can provide additional references that describe the issues, then* > *it=E2=80=99s completely appropriate to include them, IMO. At the same* > *time, I hope you are not asking that we research and summarize* > *all discussions on Extension Header Insertion issues in this memo.* > *That=E2=80=99s well beyond our scope, and would seem to be better positi= oned* > *if the issues were cataloged in the Internet Area literature.* > > > Sounds good. I will propose some text here. If that works for you, we can > move past this. > Since nothing else had yet appeared on the mailing lists, may I suggest the following if something better has not surfaced in the meantime: OLD: The topic of IPv6 Extension Headers brings current controversies into focus as noted by [RFC6564 ] and [RFC7045 ]. However, measurement use cases in the context of the IPPM framework like in-situ OAM [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data ] in enterprise environments can benefit from inspection, modification, addition or deletion of IPv6 extension headers in hosts along the measurement path. NEW: Currently, the IPv6 base specification [RFC8200] does not allow insertion or deletion of extension headers by intermediate nodes, and except for Hop-by-Hop Options, does not allow modification. However, work in progress such as [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion ] may result in extensions to [RFC8200] that allow insertion or or deletion of extension headers in controlled environments, and measurement use cases such as in-situ OAM in enterprise environments [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data ] may employ such extensions. and then farther down: OLD: o Extension Header insertion or deletion: Although such behavior is not endorsed by current standards, it is possible that Extension Headers could be added to, or removed from the header chain. The resulting packet may be standard-formed, with a corresponding Type-P. NEW: o Extension Header insertion or deletion: Although such behavior is not endorsed by current standards, future standards may allow Extension Headers to be added to, or removed from the header chain. The resulting packet may be standard-formed, with a corresponding Type-P. Mike Heard --0000000000000b5416056fa4ce85 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 04:34:54 +0000, Suresh Krishnan w= rote:
The reason header insertion was not allowe= d in RFC8200 was because the proponents of header insertion could not descr= ibe how to do header insertion safely on the internet and were not willing = to scope the header insertion to private networks. I do not have a religiou= s position on this and I summarized my position in a mail to the 6man list = on this issue (https://www.ietf.org/ma= il-archive/web/ipv6/current/msg27336.html)..=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=
&qu= ot;I have heard from several persons being concerned about the possibility = of new text in 2460bis being blindly used to block header insertion work in= the future. I just want to confirm that header insertion work can be consi= dered in the future, and that it should be judged on its own merits and not= be blocked solely based on the header insertion related text in 2460bis.&q= uot;
=C2=A0
When the ippm work hits the IES= G, I (if I am still on it :-)) will hold that work to the same standard. Th= ere is some work ongoing (albeit very slowly) in 6man to specify safe heade= r insertion=C2=A0
<= /div>
=C2=A0
https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr= aft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion-03
=C2=A0
and hopefully this work will complete before the in-situ= OAM work will hit the IESG. If not, I see encapsulation and tight scoping = as the only way forward on this issue.
<= /div>
[...]
Given that safe he= ader insertion/deletion is a
hard = problem that has not been solved, I would remove this text or
significantly augment it to describe potential = issues that may occur due to
heade= r insertion/deletion (similar to the sections related to 6lowpan and
translation).
[acm]=C2=A0
I think we would be glad to cite sever= al references to cover
the potenti= al issues that you provide, but this bullet point has real=C2=A0
value to the measurement community.
=C2=A0=
Yep. That would be a good way to address this DISCUSS point, because I= will clear right away as long as the issues are put forth just like the ex= tensive work you have done in Section 5 for the other *similar* transforms.=
[acm]<= /div>
<= span class=3D"m_679011474839492856m_-884345467527568665gmail-m_520771957474= 3691599gmail-m_-1944220058303368787gmail-" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam= ily:'Courier New'">As I said above, we need some help here. We have= already cited:
=C2=A0=C2=A0 The topic of= IPv6 Extension Headers brings current controversies into
=C2=A0=C2=A0 fo= cus as noted by [RFC6564] and [RFC7045].
=C2=A0
in the senten= ces leading to this bullet list. If you (or others)
= can pr= ovide additional references that describe the issues, then
it=E2=80=99s completely appropriate to include them, IMO. At the same
time, I hope you are not asking that we research and summarize=
all discussions on Extension Header Insertion issues in t= his memo.=
<= span class=3D"m_679011474839492856m_-884345467527568665gmail-m_520771957474= 3691599gmail-m_-1944220058303368787gmail-" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam= ily:'Courier New'">That=E2=80=99s well beyond our scope, and would = seem to be better positioned
if the issues were cataloge= d in the Internet Area literature.

Sounds good. I will propose some text here. If that works for you, we can = move past this.

Since nothing else h= ad yet appeared on the mailing lists, may I suggest the following if someth= ing better has not surfaced in the meantime:

OLD:
   The topic of IPv6 Extension Headers brings current controvers=
ies into
   focus as noted by [RFC6564] and [RFC7045].  However, measurement use
   cases in the context of the IPPM framework like in-situ OAM
   [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data] in enterprise environments =
can benefit from
   inspection, modification, addition or deletion of IPv6 extension
   headers in hosts along the measurement path.

NEW:
   Currently, the IPv6 base specifi=
cation [RFC8200] does not allow

   insertion or deletion of extension headers by intermediate nodes,

   and except for Hop-by-Hop Options, do=
es not allow modification.
   However, work in progress such as [I-D.voyer-6man=
-extension-header-insertion] 
   may result in extensions to [RFC8200] that allow insertio=
n or
   or deletion of extension headers in controlled environments,
= 
   and measur=
ement use cases such as in-situ OAM in enterprise
   environments=C2=A0[I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data=
]  may emp=
loy such extensions.

and then f= arther down:

OLD:
   o  Extension Header insertion or deletion: Although such behavior=
 is
      not endorsed by current standards, it is possible that Extension
      Headers could be added to, or removed from the header chain.  The
      resulting packet may be standard-formed, with a corresponding
      Type-P.

NEW:
   o  Extension Header in=
sertion or deletion: Although such behavior is
      not endorsed by current standards, future standards may allow
      Extension Headers to be added to, or removed from the header chain.
      The resulting packet may be standard-formed, with a corresponding
      Type-P.

Mike Heard
--0000000000000b5416056fa4ce85-- From nobody Wed Jun 27 19:29:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C872130EF2 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 19:29:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=barefootnetworks.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4I8qz2dINc2Z for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 19:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22a.google.com (mail-wr0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92AA1130DD0 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 19:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id p1-v6so3838693wrs.9 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 19:29:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=barefootnetworks.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+PyjxBWEeLJ59bEAYVq+7Agcs16UQkPqzz573MbIig4=; b=IqX8EradQptZegqXeCK9zymfHM6iEKD2mxSguWSQgm7QMpMZ3OVOkHz1nhn7hTLqPl L0GKUjN1Cq2FPJng9F5seiTNxhClBQfZ2wCjVVhKnYyu283Fx77gZ6t056Qv9/H8rRll lIRp0f9YVaqC+Q5RDX49WgTq41TmKy3T07B7c= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+PyjxBWEeLJ59bEAYVq+7Agcs16UQkPqzz573MbIig4=; b=UDrc6dwxAtRgY66dUCLD3mfV6nWlcZzJ0y1bs4CTbUpM54VdecAPeRkkngmtIipGFK 2SUdSMCia4ivwdgZjI0LgBIRoc1FPB9tov6b4gGyVsJZeg+eySSFeBiTKc9vmku1geOB JozAVgIzcQUCckYRSdOkNKLnGKb+2Mp/sHAu3G+9LUUmHfRh53BDrONb/rDKTHVfjdxN QusB7FIYoKNSxU3EUjivzrNhlhnIzL3QIem5W23d1nIrl4/pho7DgA7zBkXBvsBl8oxi dnANmiKbmXVhj8Q5CrRPqzfs3Vz42D1XVpdwVMqqjbwhDid9X20y48nFTqe01bhobr2A M9iA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2vzZEHyPGJcqGvsnfUQDZLvwdKXA9UluNfi5Uf3Q293/wXxQi+ N2+5rMP/UlHmoEfgQc82hJF/rcFVaF1VdiAHW1YusA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcET6h0dP5m4lIvhRvXeLf7gLwtn1se2uLhzOM0qYbaXP2AUuimI5VCvdw5MCx80bdulvShm/sJ0qu7fc2Rzaw= X-Received: by 2002:adf:dc8b:: with SMTP id r11-v6mr6847412wrj.166.1530152960031; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 19:29:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:adf:b2aa:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 19:29:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1a5cec69fc39440fb9f843582ecc7122@XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com> References: <152145238619.15900.1215599769770646577.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1a5cec69fc39440fb9f843582ecc7122@XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com> From: Mickey Spiegel Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 19:29:19 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" Cc: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a29ce3056faa7f23" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 02:29:25 -0000 --000000000000a29ce3056faa7f23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 3:21 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) < fbrockne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > Hi Mickey, > > > > two quick notes/questions on the draft: > > =C2=B7 Why was IPFIX chosen to frame the IOAM data for raw export? = It > was probably cutting the balance between efficiency and the fact that IPF= IX > is already well established =E2=80=93 but some additional color would be = nice. > There are many reasons why IPFIX makes sense to define the format for raw export of IOAM metadata. These include: 1. IPFIX is a widely adopted solution for export of flow statistics to collectors. Even though IOAM has different capabilities, focusing primar= ily on per packet telemetry metadata rather than flow statistics, there is enough similarity to IPFIX and its PSAMP variant that it can be consider= ed to be in the same category. 2. There is an ecosystem of IPFIX implementations, with numerous implementations of IPFIX collectors that could be extended to support IO= AM raw export. 3. Many of the information elements required for raw export of IOAM metadata are already defined in IPFIX and PSAMP (RFC 5477), as listed in the IANA registry for IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) Entities at https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipfix/ipfix.xhtml. The key IPFIX information elements that can be leveraged for IOAM raw data export are listed in Section 3.1 of the draft. While many highly optimized data plane implementations of IOAM may not be able to take advantage of the full flexibility of IPFIX, only supporting a small number of fields and templates, this flexibility does allow the data plane implementations to minimize implementation effort by creating a handful of pre-defined templates that specifically match their capabilities. Meanwhile monitoring and analytics systems that already implement IPFIX can leverage their existing code to interpret the received export packets. > =C2=B7 ioamReportFlags (section 3.2.1): For dropped packets, is see= ms as > if so far only the fact that the packet was dropped is indicated =E2=80= =93 but not > why it was dropped. Would it make sense to also have a drop reason > indicated, e.g. buffer overflow, no route to host, etc.? > The drop reason is already defined in the existing IPFIX information element with ID 89, forwardingStatus, as defined at https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipfix/ipfix.xhtml#forwarding-status. Mickey > > > Thanks, Frank > > > > *From:* ippm *On Behalf Of *Mickey Spiegel > *Sent:* Montag, 25. Juni 2018 20:36 > *To:* IETF IPPM WG > *Subject:* [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for > draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt > > > > Please find below links to a draft on raw export of IOAM data to > monitoring and analytics systems using IPFIX. This is meant to complement > the ongoing IPPM work on IOAM in the data plane. > > > > Suggestions and comments would be much appreciated. > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 2:39 AM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam- > rawexport-00.txt > To: Frank Brockners , Shwetha Bhandari < > shwethab@cisco.com>, Mickey Spiegel , > Ramesh Sivakolundu > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Mickey Spiegel and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport > Revision: 00 > Title: In-situ OAM raw data export with IPFIX > Document date: 2018-03-19 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 19 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-spiegel-ippm- > ioam-rawexport-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam- > rawexport/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam- > rawexport-00 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-spiegel-ippm- > ioam-rawexport > > > Abstract: > In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records > operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet > traverses a path between two points in the network. This document > discusses how In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance > (IOAM) information can be exported in raw, i.e. uninterpreted, format > from network devices to systems, such as monitoring or analytics > systems using IPFIX. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > > --000000000000a29ce3056faa7f23 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 3:21 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi Mickey,

=C2=A0

two quick notes/questions on = the draft:

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Why was IPFIX chosen to = frame the IOAM data for raw export? It was probably cutting the balance bet= ween efficiency and the fact that IPFIX is already well established =E2=80=93 but some add= itional color would be nice.

There are many reasons why IPFIX m= akes sense to define the format for raw export of IOAM metadata. These incl= ude:
  1. IPFIX is a widely adopted solution for export of flow stati= stics to collectors. Even though IOAM has different capabilities, focusing = primarily on per packet telemetry metadata rather than flow statistics, the= re is enough similarity to IPFIX and its PSAMP variant that it can be consi= dered to be in the same category.
  2. There = is an ecosystem of IPFIX implementations, with numerous implementations of = IPFIX collectors that could be extended to support IOAM raw export.
    3. Many of the information elements required for r= aw export of IOAM metadata are already defined in IPFIX and PSAMP (RFC 5477= ), as listed in the IANA registry for IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) En= tities=C2=A0at=C2=A0https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipfix/ipfix.xhtml. The key IPF= IX information elements that can be leveraged for IOAM raw data export are = listed in Section 3.1 of the draft.
While many highly optimized= =C2=A0data plane=C2=A0implementations of IOAM may not be= able to take advantage of the full flexibility of IPFIX, only supporting a= small number of fields and templates, this flexibility does allow the data= plane implementations to minimize implementation effort by creating a hand= ful of pre-defined templates that specifically match their capabilities. Me= anwhile monitoring and analytics systems that already implement IPFIX can l= everage their existing code to interpret the received export packets.

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ioamReportFlags (section= 3.2.1): For dropped packets, is seems as if so far only the fact that the = packet was dropped is indicated =E2=80=93 but not why it was dropped. Would it make s= ense to also have a drop reason indicated, e.g. buffer overflow, no route t= o host, etc.?

The drop reason is al= ready defined in the existing IPFIX information element with ID 89, forward= ingStatus, as defined at=C2=A0https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipfix/= ipfix.xhtml#forwarding-status.

Mickey=C2=A0

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;= color:rgb(31,73,125)">

=C2=A0

Thanks, Frank

=C2=A0

From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mickey Spiegel
Sent: Montag, 25. Juni 2018 20:36
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-spiegel-ippm= -ioam-rawexport-00.txt

=C2=A0

Please find below links to a draft on raw export of = IOAM data to monitoring and analytics systems using IPFIX. This is meant to= complement the ongoing IPPM work on IOAM in the data plane.<= /p>

=C2=A0

Suggestions and comments would be much appreciated.<= u>

=C2=A0

---------- Forwarded me= ssage ----------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 2:39 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexpor= t-00.txt
To: Frank Brockners <fbrockne@cisco.com>, Shwetha Bhandari <shwethab@cisco.com>, Mickey Spieg= el <m= spiegel@barefootnetworks.com>, Ramesh Sivakolundu <sramesh@cisco.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Mickey Spiegel and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-= rawexport
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In-situ OAM raw data export with I= PFIX
Document date:=C2=A0 2018-03-19
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 19
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawe= xport-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.= org/html/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport-00
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-spiegel-ippm-ioam-rawexport

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) rec= ords
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operational and telemetry information in the packet while the = packet
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traverses a path between two points in the network.=C2=A0 This= document
=C2=A0 =C2=A0discusses how In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintena= nce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(IOAM) information can be exported in raw, i.e. uninterpreted,= format
=C2=A0 =C2=A0from network devices to systems, such as monitoring or analyti= cs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0systems using IPFIX.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

=C2=A0


--000000000000a29ce3056faa7f23-- From nobody Thu Jun 28 07:24:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F18130DD1; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 07:24:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bf0V9ur2TvdH; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 07:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb0-x231.google.com (mail-yb0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10B0D130DC3; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 07:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb0-x231.google.com with SMTP id v17-v6so2058601ybe.7; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 07:24:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yGb5Fq5/2vSGlWRv128fcJsS5X2lrHYUblkNMZOf3+Q=; b=OMhDEb7aElIqnn6uxkM6ABF0kRSgBehvJ//rXGSfj6SIjce5hOtMtrPyDSQjIvW59Q wBkIlAcmbm8HNYy6zZ7EEmWYdt2GyWnyYHqDCjTlJVjygAZ2ltQ/sOxrAuYrTR5plfrM /D6/3xr+55ICnkqtR48+h0wYI1+S7OVY5br1GgPxdyTTVQOtoG/3LdfG73wLLB/1gUNR 4lHWwWMI8wpssSMGbvkDS92aKcrc30ctVCNOd9WrnlfjWgK4cOhFG6jvKl5FE40NmN/K eVB71h/h0YBf/0oz7xbbl+0Rvrz8K6pHE6pecaDI3KgSZJP3hJXUWHV9gqTuXPX2mBd0 K9AA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yGb5Fq5/2vSGlWRv128fcJsS5X2lrHYUblkNMZOf3+Q=; b=f4JC4r6VMEetFb9wH3njAijJIx/q5FujjswwHS1BfJA42678WrsDU8z2TigwhpCHey ljBjbZwDuJblBOhzku9lyhlGx0NX1fQAwPBniVqOy+mwxtw873mST2ZPSxptXEdm6dNd I/2BoN1cFbhCaqqVo1LN5sZDZDYW93cR9i68+5lzE2aypszGQBpkJNhP7GvChef3QyIV /paan6iVy+Q/4exzgwLzN8ZvFhrCFfs3QF8m9Wp2DWDeKPe/D+2bHOuuqz91JpD3ld1k rpX96/0UtMeRjsf/but0Jq3nQBZiF1B/4Lf4koszLINq2DqDHlpCmHLjIR5Li/Vzmsr3 jfWg== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3hhjjJiA1woeXM0c73CKmRssul9mF5MhDVenoUXgnFhL2vGiBU Yx+ZiLADqM4dTa5DLYY9mQQ98SJi+MpJqaAjJME= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpf89Di4tyn+TZX2LoUsp9sdzie/RV/azbVflf7DqY5yad23zvCQRQWR3joQqPeFOGzGK5jDbmcqOcQOHCiONGE= X-Received: by 2002:a25:ab8b:: with SMTP id v11-v6mr4087798ybi.221.1530195883049; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 07:24:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <152950984681.28540.15458643208076088093.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> <54331c1c-02d4-b50c-07ce-43532fc86583@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54331c1c-02d4-b50c-07ce-43532fc86583@gmail.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 09:24:31 -0500 Message-ID: To: Ignas Bagdonas Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, IESG , ippm@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000bc5b3056fb47e38" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 14:24:46 -0000 --0000000000000bc5b3056fb47e38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear Authors, Thank you for a quick and productive Discussion on Ignas's ballot position on this draft. On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 11:32 AM Ignas Bagdonas wrote: > >> 3. Key storage. The document defines its own way of storing keys - > while there > >> are multiple existing ways to store keys (routing key-chain model, > I2NSF, IPsec > >> model, netconf-keystore). Why yet another key storage mechanism is > required? > >> What could be reused from other existing mechanisms? > > Precisely. When we started work on this draft, there were plethora of > ideas on how to store keys. We borrowed the idea from what is now the > ietf-key-chain module to define the key chain. And we followed the KISS > principle by incorporating what was absolutely needed by TWAMP. > > That is understood and probably can be justified for this particular > model. But the cost of this approach is yet another way of storing key > information. > I saw that Ignas cleared his Discuss here, but did have a question about where the resolution ended up. I understood Ignas to be asking two things - where did this way of storing keys come from, and why was an existing way of storing the keys not chosen? I understand that Ignas cleared his Discuss, based on the explanation in this e-mail thread. I wonder if it is worth a sentence or two, to explain that in the draft ("we started with this key storage model, and left out parts we didn't need", or something like that). I'm reviewing changes today, so expect to be sending the e-mail approving publication pretty soon. Spencer > > Having the answers for the three points that you have raised, would you > still have a DISCUSS. If so, which issue, do you want to see addressed? > > I am happy with the answers, will clear the DISCUSS. The one that I am > somewhat less happy with is the key storage one - from the perspective > of both model developer and application developer, additional model that > does mostly the same thing is getting towards both to the duplication of > the work and encouraging the divergence of the ways how similar things > are done. The root of the problem is far deeper than this draft - there > does not appear to be an overall coordination of how the different > models bind together into something that allows to use different models > in the context of the whole system. > --0000000000000bc5b3056fb47e38 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Authors,=C2=A0

Thank you for a qui= ck and productive Discussion on Ignas's ballot position on this draft.= =C2=A0

On Tue, Jun = 26, 2018 at 11:32 AM Ignas Bagdonas <ibagdona@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ha= ving the answers for the three points that you have raised, would you still= have a DISCUSS. If so, which issue, do you want to see addressed?

I am happy with the answers, will clear the DISCUSS. The one that I am
somewhat less happy with is the key storage one - from the perspective
of both model developer and application developer, additional model that does mostly the same thing is getting towards both to the duplication of the work and encouraging the divergence of the ways how similar things
are done. The root of the problem is far deeper than this draft - there does not appear to be an overall coordination of how the different
models bind together into something that allows to use different models in the context of the whole system.
--0000000000000bc5b3056fb47e38-- From nobody Thu Jun 28 07:32:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8BA0130E8C; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 07:32:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9g26SzbU-tHH; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 07:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74DF6130DD1; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 07:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049287.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049287.ppops.net-00191d01. 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(GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5SEWQEv023679; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 09:32:26 -0500 Received: from mail-azure.research.att.com (mail-azure.research.att.com [135.207.255.18]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5SEWHJM022760; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 09:32:17 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-azure.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA43FE1BFE; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 10:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 10:32:01 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Ignas Bagdonas CC: Mahesh Jethanandani , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org" , IESG , "ippm@ietf.org" , Nalini Elkins Thread-Topic: Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUDWs/lWqORGgDw0elzuaTZxNGN6R1/6yA//+9i7A= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 14:32:16 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A931482@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152950984681.28540.15458643208076088093.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> <54331c1c-02d4-b50c-07ce-43532fc86583@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.16.251.151] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A931482njmtexg4researc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-28_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1806280163 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 14:32:38 -0000 --_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A931482njmtexg4researc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgU3BlbmNlciwNCg0KRnJvbTogU3BlbmNlciBEYXdraW5zIGF0IElFVEYgW21haWx0bzpzcGVu Y2VyZGF3a2lucy5pZXRmQGdtYWlsLmNvbV0NClNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBKdW5lIDI4LCAyMDE4 IDEwOjI1IEFNDQpUbzogSWduYXMgQmFnZG9uYXMgPGliYWdkb25hQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NCkNjOiBN YWhlc2ggSmV0aGFuYW5kYW5pIDxtamV0aGFuYW5kYW5pQGdtYWlsLmNvbT47IGlwcG0tY2hhaXJz 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X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5PR0701MB2961 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 10:43:47 -0000 Spencer Perhaps one for a Note to the RFC Editor -12 still has bit unauth-test-encrpyt-control { which AM suggested should be bit unauth-test-encrypt-control { Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Spencer Dawkins at IETF" To: "Ignas Bagdonas" Cc: ; ; ; "IESG" Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:24 PM > Dear Authors, > > Thank you for a quick and productive Discussion on Ignas's ballot position > on this draft. > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 11:32 AM Ignas Bagdonas wrote: > > > >> 3. Key storage. The document defines its own way of storing keys - > > while there > > >> are multiple existing ways to store keys (routing key-chain model, > > I2NSF, IPsec > > >> model, netconf-keystore). Why yet another key storage mechanism is > > required? > > >> What could be reused from other existing mechanisms? > > > Precisely. When we started work on this draft, there were plethora of > > ideas on how to store keys. We borrowed the idea from what is now the > > ietf-key-chain module to define the key chain. And we followed the KISS > > principle by incorporating what was absolutely needed by TWAMP. > > > > That is understood and probably can be justified for this particular > > model. But the cost of this approach is yet another way of storing key > > information. > > I saw that Ignas cleared his Discuss here, but did have a question about > where the resolution ended up. > > I understood Ignas to be asking two things - where did this way of storing > keys come from, and why was an existing way of storing the keys not chosen? > > I understand that Ignas cleared his Discuss, based on the explanation in > this e-mail thread. > > I wonder if it is worth a sentence or two, to explain that in the draft > ("we started with this key storage model, and left out parts we didn't > need", or something like that). > > I'm reviewing changes today, so expect to be sending the e-mail approving > publication pretty soon. > > Spencer > > > > Having the answers for the three points that you have raised, would you > > still have a DISCUSS. If so, which issue, do you want to see addressed? > > > > I am happy with the answers, will clear the DISCUSS. The one that I am > > somewhat less happy with is the key storage one - from the perspective > > of both model developer and application developer, additional model that > > does mostly the same thing is getting towards both to the duplication of > > the work and encouraging the divergence of the ways how similar things > > are done. The root of the problem is far deeper than this draft - there > > does not appear to be an overall coordination of how the different > > models bind together into something that allows to use different models > > in the context of the whole system. > From nobody Fri Jun 29 06:17:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CFB7130E8A; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 06:17:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id as-vlCrpvbsR; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 06:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx03.telecomitalia.it (mx03.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76CB6130EBA; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 06:17:23 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: d9a97917-d0bff70000001046-32-5b3631612363 Received: from TELMBXA02RM001.telecomitalia.local ( [10.14.252.26]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx03.telecomitalia.it () with SMTP id 46.52.04166.161363B5; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 15:17:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "ippm@ietf.org" CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) (acm@research.att.com)" , "Sudhin Jacob (sjacob@juniper.net)" , "xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn" , "'draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04.txt Thread-Index: AQHUD6om702WSXwlJEWFJOlzeOizqaR3NZPQ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 13:17:20 +0000 Message-ID: <71315f28c4304a59938c46f5563112c1@TELMBXB02RM001.telecomitalia.local> References: <153027765263.30446.3499932491763948836.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <153027765263.30446.3499932491763948836.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.14.252.246] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrLKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXCxfdHSjfR0Cza4MQxbou+Q7MZLXY2TGK3 WL2jm82i58E7ZosVe/vZLWbcP8vqwOZx71awx5IlP5k8rjddZff4/2Q+SwBLVAOjTWJeXn5J YkmqQkpqcbKtkktmcXJOYmZuapFCSGpOanJ+rpJCZoqtkrGSQkFOYnJqbmpeia1SYkFBal6K kh2XAgawASrLzFNIzUvOT8nMS7dV8gz217WwMLXUNVSyCyxNLS7JV8hNLS5OTE/PzFdITVgv mPFm9Qfmgh8iFWdOODYwvhDoYuTkkBAwkbjXu5ili5GLQ0hgKpPEtivnGEESbAI2EgdfnWAD sUUElCVavv1hBCliFnjAJHHx62EmkISwQJTE5rWHWCGKoiW6z11mgrCNJGatucICYrMIqEpM XfwcbBCvQKDE7fn72UFsIQFfia7py8DinAJ+EsueXQNbzCggKzFh9yIwm1lAXOLWk/lMEJcK SCzZc54ZwhaVePn4HyuEbSCxdek+oF0cQLaixIevWRBhGYmFRyazQozRk7gxdQobhK0tsWzh a2aIcwQlTs58wjKBUWwWkm2zkLTMQtIyC0nLAkaWVYyiuRUGxnolkOjLLEnMyUzUyyzZxAhM MzdXVorvYGxf6XyIUYCDUYmHV/quabQQa2JZcWXuIUYJDmYlEV5OdrNoId6UxMqq1KL8+KLS nNTiQ4w+wACbyCwlmpwPTIF5JfGGJhaWhsYWFkaGFmamOISVxHnnsgHNEkgHpq/s1NSC1CKY cUwcnFINjM8YKyyLuhRDOaZc+S3eNnPTo6Cf7WJVj4SEpdM129JfL/DasP50zYbvlww3OXz4 Pfszg+On7QFXA2zETopo/ZRV7GDO2DG/eomJ2QsnRrOnXe7XI6aHXywx+fLrZldt31FRzfWc Ks3GXO5pIguNXm/fttp899adW8JMn/kL/pW9HbZQoPPEUiWW4oxEQy3mouJEACQZTnFgAwAA Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 13:17:45 -0000 Hi All, This new version of the draft addresses the inputs received in the last week= s. A new Section on "Timing Aspects" has been included and I want to thank Al,= that suggested this enhancement. This extends the corresponding Section of= RFC8321. Additionally, Sudhin and Chongfeng gave some suggestions to improve the desc= ription of the multipoint approach. Best Regards, Giuseppe -----Original Message----- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] Sent: venerd=EC 29 giugno 2018 15:08 To: Riccardo Sisto ; Fioccola Giuseppe ; Cociglio Mauro ;= Amedeo Sapio Subject: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mar= k-04.txt A new version of I-D, draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04.txt has been successfully submitted by Giuseppe Fioccola and posted to the IETF= repository. Name: draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark Revision: 04 Title: Multipoint Alternate Marking method for passive and hybrid performan= ce monitoring Document date: 2018-06-29 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 20 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fioccola-ippm-mul= tipoint-alt-mark-04.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-ippm-multipo= int-alt-mark/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-a= lt-mark-04 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-fioccola-ippm-mu= ltipoint-alt-mark Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-ippm-mult= ipoint-alt-mark-04 Abstract: The Alternate Marking method, as presented in RFC 8321 [RFC8321], can be applied only to point-to-point flows because it assumes that all the packets of the flow measured on one node are measured again by a single second node. This document aims to generalize and expand this methodology to measure any kind of unicast flows, whose packets can follow several different paths in the network, in wider terms a multipoint-to-multipoint network. For this reason the technique here described is called Multipoint Alternate Marking. Some definitions here introduced extend the scope of RFC 5644 [RFC5644] in the context of alternate marking schema. = Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission= until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle pers= one indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla= conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbia= te ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne= immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, G= razie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged i= nformation intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, print= ing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended reci= pient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender= by return e-mail, Thanks. Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario. From nobody Fri Jun 29 08:08:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC31212F1A6; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:08:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XdcIMdMK17aF; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x242.google.com (mail-yw0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0315B126CC7; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x242.google.com with SMTP id w76-v6so1125124ywg.4; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:08:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6lPArxAoZSOaqM9y7QVXlMnG4/dtwyYn8MPIcqhFZJo=; b=YOFBMUgIU6VksLnJoYefhEl6QlXdyy3xtlhS/LbOHNfYKfG4qNZNwGo2e0G7DwKyfK rqmJ3WnkCHYcZJZ+b13uTnLKWfXA8/vkhmkiYrG3OIsEZBlvHq5yE0Zaf7m7/vkkqyjw FWa++C+fWMa2KAnSrJ9ecU0JWDZzx5b72vkaCobAg0yJfZREkdyqCcXYzzHqKY5RbCWP uT27taooWPFD0gZmYnKdREB38TPnq//pRcA92JbF1CrTB/G3+kcBQjdPDf0hlXdNMpHv 5O8XMUb5AR2tg++hG6lfu12t2le4dala2/Z1yallUdzvLU4s6h30Ar8ZtRznsgp5jxbz 0m8g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6lPArxAoZSOaqM9y7QVXlMnG4/dtwyYn8MPIcqhFZJo=; b=hmC0EIoOSrh8KUKzlqchhyEnimiVNRs1ybyWtCDG6a2I/D58OgGsygwdzwPymUitSP dD0EaJlgm+GIqGLiI6FguHjBgqtbEwWb5Ju+gnX5rIHAHnk6Sg0MOQj6hOo0hQpjPIiG E9aJ1sxsMKva75Bnl3Zgg05qOZHWHmNnGHYIC3YdCZUWbvcJLxsInu+LyKaceCmurO/K A2aM6uks87oY/4x2FVcfrvEIgKWyuCk4P9hjO2EPvbDGE3Tlai2pbCk3r5dnTr1p8n3W IiiAuzg1KpSj9vlRKQrMprhh7rQ3aa1KPOUqsr80iHzgv3yixCPKeWGN3/5npyzenoJg T+Ng== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E30R5L90PUUY9liDzb5X7gqJIpeW8c6N7KUCf2urOWE01jvBgQE EJ4zF/fkvSeP0w5o2vKia3HcuwGcuF5EopzEV+RskQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpdsz+OoPsqnVuATCTQtmF6ixFfNdqQghroywAMcjve3JugISPk8Clqor55mW5E4LGH7QnC715NrhM2WiDYpgYQ= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:edc7:: with SMTP id w190-v6mr7102995ywe.467.1530284907106; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:08:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <152955610162.28620.13249468338471662781.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <063FD288-AF03-43B0-A519-5BFE418D3DC0@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <063FD288-AF03-43B0-A519-5BFE418D3DC0@gmail.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 10:08:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Adam Roach , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, IESG , ippm@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004b16bc056fc938f5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 15:08:33 -0000 --0000000000004b16bc056fc938f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Manesh, On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 2:14 PM Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Hi Adam, > > > On Jun 20, 2018, at 9:41 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > > > > Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Thanks for the work and thought that everyone involved in this document > spent. I > > find the model well described and easy to understand. > > > > I agree with Ben's comments about including more information about the > privacy > > and security properties of specific entities in the module. See > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines for > specific > > guidance. > > > > Since this conflicts with normative language in RFC 6087 =C2=A73.4 (and > 6087bis > > =C2=A73.7), it is a blocking defect that needs to be remedied prior to > publication. > > I have added more nodes in the Security Considerations section. > I'm not the Adam Interpreter, but I'm seeing considerable new discussion about the MTI security for NETCONF and RESTCONF, and about what happens if writable nodes are modified by an attacker. Thank you for that. Adam said in his Discuss that he was agreeing with Ben's comments on this topic, and Ben's comments included this question: Are there no nodes that are privacy (or otherwise) sensitive when just readable? I didn't see any new text about this. Are there privacy-sensitive read-only nodes? Thanks, Spencer --0000000000004b16bc056fc938f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Manesh,=C2=A0

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 2:14 PM Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
Hi Adam,

> On Jun 20, 2018, at 9:41 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
>
> Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<= br> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> Thanks for the work and thought that everyone involved in this documen= t spent. I
> find the model well described and easy to understand.
>
> I agree with Ben's comments about including more information about= the privacy
> and security properties of specific entities in the module. See
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki= /yang-security-guidelines for specific
> guidance.
>
> Since this conflicts with normative language in RFC 6087 =C2=A73.4 (an= d 6087bis
> =C2=A73.7), it is a blocking defect that needs to be remedied prior to= publication.

I have added more nodes in the Security Considerations section.

I'm not the Adam Interpreter, but I'm seei= ng considerable new discussion about the MTI security for NETCONF and RESTC= ONF, and about what happens if writable nodes are modified by an attacker. = Thank you for that.=C2=A0

Adam said in his Discuss= that he was agreeing with Ben's comments on this topic, and Ben's = comments included this question:=C2=A0

=C2=A0Are there no nodes that are privacy (or otherwise) sensiti= ve when just readable?

I didn't see an= y new text about this. Are there privacy-sensitive read-only nodes?

Thanks,

Spencer
--0000000000004b16bc056fc938f5-- From nobody Fri Jun 29 11:26:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52D69130DD9; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:26:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g7gUw_FRZ_kF; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29A1B130DC1; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049295.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. 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(GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5TIP27W008023; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 13:25:02 -0500 Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (mail-blue.research.att.com [135.207.178.11]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5TIOt8t007546; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 13:24:55 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njmtcas2.research.att.com [135.207.255.47]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F1BAF1AD6; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 14:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njmtcas2.research.att.com ([fe80::d550:ec84:f872:cad9%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 14:24:40 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: "t.petch" , Spencer Dawkins at IETF CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org" , IESG Thread-Topic: [ippm] Ignas Bagdonas' Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUDWs/lWqORGgDw0elzuaTZxNGN6R1/6yAgAERnRmAAHwcMA== Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 18:24:53 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A931D74@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152950984681.28540.15458643208076088093.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6F0F300E-F699-4DE2-8C13-710264957452@gmail.com> <54331c1c-02d4-b50c-07ce-43532fc86583@gmail.com> <018301d40f95$b7f02760$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: <018301d40f95$b7f02760$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [69.141.203.172] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-29_08:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 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dGhlIHNhbWUgdGhpbmcgaXMgZ2V0dGluZyB0b3dhcmRzIGJvdGggdG8gdGhlDQo+IGR1cGxpY2F0 aW9uIG9mDQo+ID4gPiB0aGUgd29yayBhbmQgZW5jb3VyYWdpbmcgdGhlIGRpdmVyZ2VuY2Ugb2Yg dGhlIHdheXMgaG93IHNpbWlsYXINCj4gdGhpbmdzDQo+ID4gPiBhcmUgZG9uZS4gVGhlIHJvb3Qg b2YgdGhlIHByb2JsZW0gaXMgZmFyIGRlZXBlciB0aGFuIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgLQ0KPiB0aGVyZQ0K PiA+ID4gZG9lcyBub3QgYXBwZWFyIHRvIGJlIGFuIG92ZXJhbGwgY29vcmRpbmF0aW9uIG9mIGhv dyB0aGUgZGlmZmVyZW50DQo+ID4gPiBtb2RlbHMgYmluZCB0b2dldGhlciBpbnRvIHNvbWV0aGlu ZyB0aGF0IGFsbG93cyB0byB1c2UgZGlmZmVyZW50DQo+IG1vZGVscw0KPiA+ID4gaW4gdGhlIGNv bnRleHQgb2YgdGhlIHdob2xlIHN5c3RlbS4NCj4gPg0KDQo= From nobody Fri Jun 29 11:39:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2337130DF2; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:39:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZIPGcKjMzQan; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnet.fi.uba.ar (cnet.fi.uba.ar [157.92.58.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 762D6124D68; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix) with ESMTP id 248F914006C; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 15:17:06 -0300 (ART) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at cnet.fi.uba.ar Received: from cnet.fi.uba.ar ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (cnet.fi.uba.ar [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vzvD0kD_PgQS; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 15:17:00 -0300 (ART) Received: from [192.168.1.122] (unknown [157.92.51.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by cnet.fi.uba.ar (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45305140068; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 15:17:00 -0300 (ART) From: J Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_288778DF-5D69-41EF-A816-D625E4CE91B9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Message-Id: <472C8B20-94D4-4801-808D-78A2CE41331D@cnet.fi.uba.ar> References: <153028095607.30425.12072723175251925239.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: ippm@ietf.org, IPPM Chairs Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 15:38:55 -0300 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic-01.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 18:39:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_288778DF-5D69-41EF-A816-D625E4CE91B9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear ippmers, For those interested in performing OWAMP, here is a proposal of clock = synchronization (at zero cost). It is joint work with Ruediger Geib, = Alfredo A. Ortega, and David Samaniego. This new version of the original document = draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-si includes the following changes: 1_ A new author Ruediger Geib. 2_ A detailed information about the security issues, regarding the = RFC7384. 3_ Reference and comparison to ITU-G.8260. 4_ We stressed the "frequency" objective of the protocol. 5_ Some typos were corrected.=20 I hope you find it exciting and I am open to any question about it. Best regards, J.Ignacio _______________________________________________________________ Dr. Ing. Jos=C3=A9 Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin CONICET and Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa, Universidad de Buenos Aires Av. Paseo Col=C3=B3n 850 - C1063ACV - Buenos Aires - Argentina +54 (11) 5285 0716 / 5285 0705 e-mail: ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar web: http://cnet.fi.uba.ar/ignacio.alvarez-hamelin/ _______________________________________________________________ > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic-01.txt > Date: 29 June 2018 at 11:02:36 GMT-3 > To: "Jose Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin" , "Ruediger = Geib" , "Alfredo A. Ortega" = , "Alfredo Ortega" , = "David Samaniego" , "Jose Alvarez-Hamelin" = >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Jose Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin and = posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic > Revision: 01 > Title: Synchronizing Internet Clock frequency protocol = (sic) > Document date: 2018-06-28 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 25 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic-01.= txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic-01 > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic-01 >=20 > Abstract: > Synchronizing Internet Clock Frequency specifies a new secure method > to synchronize difference clocks on the Internet, assuring = smoothness > (i.e., frequency stability) and robustness to man-in-the-middle > attacks. In 90% of all cases, Synchronized Internet Clock Frequency > is highly accurate, with a Maximum Time Interval Error less than 25 > microseconds by a minute. Synchronized Internet Clock Frequency is > based on a regular packet exchange and works with commodity terminal > hardware. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat --Apple-Mail=_288778DF-5D69-41EF-A816-D625E4CE91B9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Dear = ippmers,

For those = interested in performing OWAMP, here is a proposal of clock = synchronization (at zero cost). It is joint work with Ruediger Geib, = Alfredo A. Ortega, and David Samaniego.
This  new version of the original document = draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-si includes the following = changes:

1_ A new author = Ruediger Geib.
2_ A detailed = information about the security issues, regarding the = RFC7384.
3_ Reference and = comparison to ITU-G.8260.
4_ We stressed the "frequency" objective of the = protocol.
5_ Some typos = were corrected. 

I hope you find it exciting and I am open to any question = about it.

Best = regards,


    =   J.Ignacio


_______________________________________________________________=

Dr. Ing. Jos=C3=A9 Ignacio = Alvarez-Hamelin
CONICET and = Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa, Universidad de = Buenos Aires
Av. Paseo Col=C3=B3n 850 - C1063ACV = - Buenos Aires - Argentina
+54 (11) 5285 0716 / 5285 0705
e-mail: = ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar
web: http://cnet.fi.uba.ar/ignacio.alvarez-hamelin/
_______________________________________________________________=



Begin forwarded message:

From: = internet-drafts@ietf.org
Subject: = New Version = Notification for draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic-01.txt
Date: = 29 June 2018 at 11:02:36 = GMT-3
To: = "Jose Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin" = <ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar>, "Ruediger Geib" <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de>, "Alfredo A. Ortega" <ortegaalfredo@gmail.com>, "Alfredo Ortega" <ortegaalfredo@gmail.com>, "David Samaniego" <dsamanie@fi.uba.ar>, = "Jose Alvarez-Hamelin" <ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar>


A new version = of I-D, draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic-01.txt
has been = successfully submitted by Jose Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin and posted to = the
IETF repository.

Name: = draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic
Revision: 01
Title:= = Synchronizing Internet Clock frequency protocol (sic)
Document date: 2018-06-28
Group:= = Individual Submission
Pages: 25
URL: =            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-alavarez-hamelin-tic= toc-sic-01.txt
Status: =         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-= sic/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-alavarez-hamelin-tictoc-sic-0= 1
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-alavarez-hamelin-ti= ctoc-sic
Diff: =           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-alavarez-hamelin-tict= oc-sic-01

Abstract:
=   Synchronizing Internet Clock Frequency specifies a new = secure method
  to synchronize difference = clocks on the Internet, assuring smoothness
=   (i.e., frequency stability) and robustness to = man-in-the-middle
  attacks.  In 90% of = all cases, Synchronized Internet Clock Frequency
=   is highly accurate, with a Maximum Time Interval Error less = than 25
  microseconds by a minute. =  Synchronized Internet Clock Frequency is
=   based on a regular packet exchange and works with commodity = terminal
  hardware.





Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the = time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are = available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF = Secretariat

= --Apple-Mail=_288778DF-5D69-41EF-A816-D625E4CE91B9-- From nobody Fri Jun 29 12:20:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32E3130E03; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:19:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09XEPi0VEnFA; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x22b.google.com (mail-pl0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11BC9130DE0; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id z9-v6so4902329plo.1; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:19:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=1HV/CxdmnmzxoSe2mT6edXkbhdCJW/n64YS4nZwFQbY=; b=ReIvj3ajQAQqqbU9KXKdqgzi9ZnSN6q6udVtyM7zJI3IViXUSNQuaA53waMff8ZQHt il5zbwLasGjPfVXFWMQgcm92pcW3viwi0wrefFl3nNzHZLwuQ1438Dktt4y6OElsvpgN k9B2otpxOGCTAZpyxSdYZC/kJmTr/FiUo4znv8/wXavgPwBGmRDt/KqE7qfyEoHXXE/2 L4J0aYy6gAYrcvw+Kz4HTVmCM9Mv6YHRm1+HMBlGGlZ9qZCYWm9TeFI+E5ySJNukXVnR CUv3RLqGp50F7+TefKlB2qD2FIYYmtirX6fSF1sWQrLUAX+i+Hwoq75cxGNGHcGogasY vX2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=1HV/CxdmnmzxoSe2mT6edXkbhdCJW/n64YS4nZwFQbY=; b=hMeSrmgSytFkr1Q7kELYjYnPqnu9XriNlAreCQ0DuzOF4mahsDkXryR9o0fmPl/XRO tGPf5Pip5ZwhSK/PuS0tUxJZ9sJ1UxdN1TKHogJgZ1IV8MAiSG3rA0ash3BaHM/+99Jr lgXo5bOhmIB6QtTQnBlTsdmtFldOg0msfzccAXklimONY6B3u23e2VtRsvJj2xo+j9Ej VMgi8uhOhzBMWWZCXiuBPefGAwY1wfV4InVflCO2aOU94YnXFnkjFFVDVOr50FCgDd1j iuWg22MRxGqWtrUrk5XVCDxKd/PEYOHjajsogibPhqF9WsPVUaRJn2R33Vea0amnEQBZ Y+6w== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0/k5Fgiysx2JRr6agj44slxEaJt+O305BS5E4b90IWMDOrYShV zLfTJb2lkVe7D0UVVrdkQTg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJ4iBKEKFVKHv96Q6p8B7QtVpqi9cgTo+0Ikwe1qt4hyAIpH9A4cGDrnKNe9OnQ/q01gp2+OQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:5602:: with SMTP id h2-v6mr16302181pli.314.1530299996590; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:1438:4517:4b81:9c47? ([2601:647:4700:1280:1438:4517:4b81:9c47]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y15-v6sm14552365pfm.136.2018.06.29.12.19.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:19:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <5C8A4F3E-3FE0-4EBB-8A60-C974769DBB0C@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7F454495-C560-41AF-8999-169792A5203E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:19:53 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Adam Roach , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang@ietf.org, The IESG , ippm@ietf.org, Nalini Elkins To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF References: <152955610162.28620.13249468338471662781.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <063FD288-AF03-43B0-A519-5BFE418D3DC0@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 19:20:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7F454495-C560-41AF-8999-169792A5203E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Spencer, > On Jun 29, 2018, at 8:08 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF = wrote: >=20 > Hi, Manesh,=20 >=20 > On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 2:14 PM Mahesh Jethanandani = > wrote: > Hi Adam, >=20 > > On Jun 20, 2018, at 9:41 PM, Adam Roach > wrote: > >=20 > > Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss > >=20 > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to = all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > >=20 > >=20 > > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html = > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > >=20 > >=20 > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ = > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >=20 > > Thanks for the work and thought that everyone involved in this = document spent. I > > find the model well described and easy to understand. > >=20 > > I agree with Ben's comments about including more information about = the privacy > > and security properties of specific entities in the module. See > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines = for = specific > > guidance. > >=20 > > Since this conflicts with normative language in RFC 6087 =C2=A73.4 = (and 6087bis > > =C2=A73.7), it is a blocking defect that needs to be remedied prior = to publication. >=20 > I have added more nodes in the Security Considerations section. >=20 > I'm not the Adam Interpreter, but I'm seeing considerable new = discussion about the MTI security for NETCONF and RESTCONF, and about = what happens if writable nodes are modified by an attacker. Thank you = for that.=20 >=20 > Adam said in his Discuss that he was agreeing with Ben's comments on = this topic, and Ben's comments included this question:=20 >=20 > Are there no nodes that are privacy (or otherwise) sensitive when = just readable? >=20 > I didn't see any new text about this. Are there privacy-sensitive = read-only nodes? I took another look at nodes that are marked read-only in the YANG = module. These nodes include session state, sent and receive packet = count, last sequence number received or transmitted, start time, repeat = count, tcp/ip address and port numbers etc. Nothing jumped out as = particularly privacy sensitive. One field that did catch my attention was the =E2=80=98token=E2=80=99 = field, which is defined as "This parameter holds the 64 octets = containing the concatenation of a 16-octet Challenge, a 16-octet AES = Session-key used for encryption, and a 32-octet HMAC-SHA1 Session-key = used for authentication; see also the last paragraph of Section 6 in RFC = 4656.=E2=80=9D I am not a security expert, and do not know if being able to read this = or other read-only information is sufficient in itself to launch an = attack or disrupt an existing or new session. Maybe somebody from = SEC-DIR can comment on it. If it is, I would be happy to add some text = around it.=20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Spencer Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_7F454495-C560-41AF-8999-169792A5203E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Spencer,

On Jun 29, 2018, at 8:08 AM, Spencer Dawkins = at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, = Manesh, 

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 2:14 PM Mahesh = Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Adam,

> On Jun 20, 2018, at 9:41 PM, Adam Roach = <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
> 
> Adam = Roach has entered the following ballot position for
> = draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-11: Discuss
> 
> When = responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel = free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT = positions.
> 
> 
> The = document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/
> > 
> 
> = ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> = ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Thanks for the work and thought that everyone involved = in this document spent. I
> find the model well = described and easy to understand.
> 
> I agree = with Ben's comments about including more information about the = privacy
> and security properties of specific entities = in the module. See
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines for specific
> guidance.
> 
> Since = this conflicts with normative language in RFC 6087 =C2=A73.4 (and = 6087bis
> =C2=A73.7), it is a blocking defect that = needs to be remedied prior to publication.

I = have added more nodes in the Security Considerations section.

I'm not the Adam Interpreter, but I'm seeing considerable new = discussion about the MTI security for NETCONF and RESTCONF, and about = what happens if writable nodes are modified by an attacker. Thank you = for that. 

Adam said in his Discuss that he was agreeing with Ben's = comments on this topic, and Ben's comments included this = question: 

 Are there no nodes that are privacy (or otherwise) = sensitive when just readable?

I didn't see any new text about this. Are there = privacy-sensitive read-only = nodes?

I took = another look at nodes that are marked read-only in the YANG module. = These nodes include session state, sent and receive packet count, last = sequence number received or transmitted, start time, repeat count, = tcp/ip address and port numbers etc. Nothing jumped out as particularly = privacy sensitive.



Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

= --Apple-Mail=_7F454495-C560-41AF-8999-169792A5203E-- From nobody Fri Jun 29 13:35:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4F8130E94; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 13:35:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 290wY2FMSrBE; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 13:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43F71130E30; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 13:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0048589.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0048589.ppops.net-00191d01. 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(GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5TKZOQs017609; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 15:35:24 -0500 Received: from mail-azure.research.att.com (mail-azure.research.att.com [135.207.255.18]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5TKZ8TN016253; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 15:35:09 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-azure.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A51E1051; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 16:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 16:34:53 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Suresh Krishnan , Spencer Dawkins at IETF CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 00:56:49 -0000 Hi Folks, We just submitted a new draft related IOAM in this working group. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-ioam-tunnel-mode/ This document describes the IOAM processing behavior in a network with tunn= els. Specifically, the IOAM processing in tunnels with the uniform model an= d the pipe model is discussed. The procedure is applicable to different ty= pe of tunnel protocols. Please review and comment. Any suggestion is welcome. 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(GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5UKm9qC000414; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 15:48:09 -0500 Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (mail-green.research.att.com [135.207.255.15]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5UKm2wv032237; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 15:48:02 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njmtcas2.research.att.com [135.207.255.47]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11FDAE2013; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 16:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njmtcas2.research.att.com ([fe80::d550:ec84:f872:cad9%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 16:47:45 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Suresh Krishnan CC: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUCV1z1tfcpxRmFUWHbmnOolALRKRqubhggAAfrwCAAAJrAIAHH4CAgADXmPCABKzQIIABlmmAgAA7m2A= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 20:48:00 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A9322F5@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <152958494006.31485.7887719162606975251.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EE6D@njmtexg4.research.att.com> <43CCA228-6735-49AF-B453-5654AC0E7B79@kaloom.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A92EFEE@njmtexg4.research.att.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A930678@njmtexg4.research.att.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A931E80@njmtexg4.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [69.141.203.172] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A9322F5njmtexg4researc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure 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SAiqQEg5yCOAnYb4PLqupDkImlxZnkMJ9UpKjgBaWp5hKK2SCmBlOouIV+6d+3KkoniWtgIgsSH7UwdXJJCqvxdZP37X7rQUv50t6piO4yvu2Fi/Gj807Vy0iiR0XO4Pnab2THNaVBU8prkF9dHsJcyoHOs4HQEfXDn8EIz7qWVLXjiwjbDEUKLQlVkXqb6mS11lv9XMh0HDyXXLcr25z767FSMDmEodbCwf8SX9OO4KEwLx8jBOWQ+7V3/4NsuLvdtLuByxHofF7EvnG416Xd1inpnycEd/S5uP4flXePjBHkOXSXLdMnD1JSyvEDNX/sD+61Xw5Q/fNflnEuqg05kTmJtrRd+3A0aucFy4IPY= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AD2764BBA9CB46ADB6B19B2F0639E976kaloomcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: kaloom.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 468e7980-9d8f-41d1-af81-08d5decbb50d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Jun 2018 20:54:43.8999 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 47d58e26-f796-48e8-ac40-1c365c204513 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: YQXPR0101MB0790 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 20:54:52 -0000 --_000_AD2764BBA9CB46ADB6B19B2F0639E976kaloomcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Al, On Jun 30, 2018, at 4:48 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) > wrote: NewNew: There are issues with Extension Header insertion and deletion of course, such as exceeding the path MTU due to insertion, etc. Excellent. That works for me too. Go for it. Cheers Suresh --_000_AD2764BBA9CB46ADB6B19B2F0639E976kaloomcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3ED45EA84A73394AB80F928B194D0B83@CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Al,

On Jun 30, 2018, at 4:48 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acm@research.att.com>= wrote:

NewNew:
There are issues with Extension Header insertion and=
deletion of course, such as exceeding the path MTU due
to insertion, etc.
 

Excellent. That works for me too. Go for it. 

Cheers
Suresh

--_000_AD2764BBA9CB46ADB6B19B2F0639E976kaloomcom_-- From nobody Sat Jun 30 14:06:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84A48130ECC; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:06:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153039278746.26489.1305453846111019616@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:06:27 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-06.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 21:06:28 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : IPv6, IPv4 and Coexistence Updates for IPPM's Active Metric Framework Authors : Al Morton Joachim Fabini Nalini Elkins Michael S. Ackermann Vinayak Hegde Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-06.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2018-06-30 Abstract: This memo updates the IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) Framework RFC 2330 with new considerations for measurement methodology and testing. It updates the definition of standard-formed packets in RFC 2330 to include IPv6 packets, deprecates the definition of minimal IP packet, and augments distinguishing aspects of packets, referred to as Type-P for test packets in RFC 2330. This memo identifies that IPv4-IPv6 co-existence can challenge measurements within the scope of the IPPM Framework. Example use cases include, but are not limited to IPv4-IPv6 translation, NAT, or protocol encapsulation. IPv6 header compression and use of IPv6 over Low-Power Wireless Area Networks (6LoWPAN) are considered and excluded from the standard-formed packet evaluation. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Jun 30 14:15:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E63F9124C04; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:15:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Suresh Krishnan To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org, Brian Trammell , Nevil Brownlee , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153039333593.26387.5904345357406429963.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:15:35 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 21:15:37 -0000 Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-06: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS and COMMENT points. From nobody Sat Jun 30 15:25:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C95E130E1D; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 15:24:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153039749747.26513.8553144078262082257@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 15:24:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-15.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 22:24:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Registry for Performance Metrics Authors : Marcelo Bagnulo Benoit Claise Philip Eardley Al Morton Aamer Akhter Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-15.txt Pages : 34 Date : 2018-06-30 Abstract: This document defines the format for the Performance Metrics registry and defines the IANA Registry for Performance Metrics. This document also gives a set of guidelines for Registered Performance Metric requesters and reviewers. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-15 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-15 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-metric-registry-15 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Jun 30 15:29:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28374130E1D; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 15:29:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153039778713.26363.13654026108125919875@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 15:29:47 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-07.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 22:29:48 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Initial Performance Metric Registry Entries Authors : Al Morton Marcelo Bagnulo Philip Eardley Kevin D'Souza Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-07.txt Pages : 93 Date : 2018-06-30 Abstract: This memo defines the Initial Entries for the Performance Metrics Registry. This version includes: * Revised implementation of Passive TCP RTT metrics in section 10 (from comments). * remaining question on DNS measurement method(s) Still need: Add MBM metric entry. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Jun 30 15:31:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACA64130EC4; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 15:31:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JpAXr2XgUXA7; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 15:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 002D1130E1D; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 15:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049297.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049297.ppops.net-00191d01. 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All, the newly submitted draft is here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6/?include_text=3D= 1 Al From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:Suresh@kaloom.com] Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 4:55 PM To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF ; ippm-chairs@ie= tf.org; n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz; The IESG ; draft-ietf-ipp= m-2330-ipv6@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6-= 05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Hi Al, On Jun 30, 2018, at 4:48 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) > wrote: NewNew: There are issues with Extension Header insertion and deletion of course, such as exceeding the path MTU due to insertion, etc. Excellent. That works for me too. Go for it. Cheers Suresh --_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A93234Anjmtexg4researc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks for clearing Suresh!<= /p>

 

All,

the newly submitted draft is here:<= /span>

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6/?include_text=3D1

 

Al

 <= /span>

From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:Suresh= @kaloom.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 4:55 PM
To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acm@research.att.com>
Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>; i= ppm-chairs@ietf.org; n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org&= gt;; draft-ietf-ippm-2330-ipv6@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ippm] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-233= 0-ipv6-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

 

Hi Al,



On Jun 30, 2018, at 4:48 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) &= lt;acm@research.att.com> wro= te:

 

NewNew:

There are issues with Extension Header insertion and

deletion of course, such as exceeding the path MTU due

to insertion, etc.

 

 

Excellent. That works for me too. Go for it. 

 

Cheers

Suresh

 

--_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4A93234Anjmtexg4researc_--