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7E.33.28518.3AF483E5; Mon, 3 Feb 2020 17:51:47 +0100 (CET) From: Cociglio Mauro To: Tal Mizrahi , IETF IPPM WG , IPPM Chairs , "draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll for draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 Thread-Index: AdXascVYDAOawfMURDikHd+3H98u/w== Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 16:51:46 +0000 Message-ID: <863a0f21a4a84f32856976465cada97f@TELMBXA06RM001.telecomitalia.local> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.229.4.38] x-ti-disclaimer: ADBanner Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpnleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42Lh4vsjobvY3yLOYNEyKYuepgPsFqt3dLNZ 9Dx4x2zxv2EakwOLx85Zd9k9liz5yRTAFNXAaJOYl5dfkliSqpCSWpxsq+SSWZyck5iZm1qk 4OjiBJRMLVJSyEyxVTJTUijISUxOzU3NK7FVSiwoSM1LUbLjUsAANkBlmXkKqXnJ+SmZeem2 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for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2020 20:46:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaze.cs.jhu.edu (blaze.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 018D11200F9 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2020 20:45:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from web3.cs.jhu.edu (web3.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.76]) (user=soudeh mech=LOGIN bits=0) by blaze.cs.jhu.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0144jm4n030326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2020 23:45:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2020 23:45:48 -0500 From: Soudeh Ghorbani To: ippm@ietf.org Reply-To: soudeh@cs.jhu.edu Mail-Reply-To: soudeh@cs.jhu.edu In-Reply-To: <4160189b9b0ed33f9e8e4aa6e729835f@cs.jhu.edu> References: <4160189b9b0ed33f9e8e4aa6e729835f@cs.jhu.edu> Message-ID: X-Sender: soudeh@cs.jhu.edu User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.0.12 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] ACM SOSR 2020 Travel Grant X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2020 04:46:21 -0000 SOSR 2020's organizing committee is pleased to invite you to apply for travel grants. Deadline: February 18, 2020 Details: https://conferences.sigcomm.org/sosr/2020/travel_grant.html From nobody Tue Feb 4 00:31:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15C6012013A for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2020 00:31:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telekom.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M42SFq4-6hOa for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2020 00:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout41.telekom.de (mailout41.telekom.de [194.25.225.151]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6BD3120122 for ; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0da1f0bf-3461-4d6b-03a8-08d7a94ca1e4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Feb 2020 08:31:29.3688 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bde4dffc-4b60-4cf6-8b04-a5eeb25f5c4f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ILNSc3rLzvV6QwnqZmmiGtlPcd2Mql4b0KpgSqBpDKQA9dPvQAHY3AG96KykePFQuUJLsv/WL2GE9MYAiHA+Hg18pdg6vWs88ZVg375Xkus= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: LEXPR01MB1085 X-OriginatorOrg: telekom.de X-TM-SNTS-SMTP: 5C172ADA5FCC1ED47BE029EF67F5BAD08740AA6048DE2FB9994AD1DC7A5E6DCE2000:8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2020 08:31:45 -0000 Hi Al, Conditions which might occur while measuring are - congestion of an interconnection or backbone interface. I don't expect th= at to=20 be prevalent, but it might happen. If the congested interface has a highe= r=20 bandwidth then the measurement sender, then the measurement packets=20 won't arrive as a burst at the bottleneck. Further, Random Early Detectio= n=20 may be deployed. In both cases * packet loss is present, which is likely to occur independent of the sen= der rate.=20 * If the queue or congestion respectively is persistant, a small delay va= riation is=20 present, which is independent of the sender rate too. It is bigger tha= n the=20 delay variation of a non congested interface. The drop pattern caused by a congested backbone or interconnection interfac= e is likely not causing a drop pattern which easy to characterize. A measur= ement of the access bandwidth is deteriorating to an estimate, as single lo= sses and queuing at an access may be hard to discern from the queue and dro= ps caused by backbone or interconnection links. If the access bandwidth is = rate controlled by a policer, this will even be harder, as in that case no = queue will build up at the access. - the presence of middleboxes might result in transport layer or applicatio= n specific=20 rate limitations. A variety of conditions may arise, ranging from complet= e blocking=20 of a measurement flow to access bandwidth measurements being significantl= y higher=20 than the rates achieved by flows of other protocols or applications, if t= he latter are=20 rate controlled by a middlebox while the measurement flow isn't. It may also be a good idea to foresee ECN support by the measurement system= . A commodity ECN deployment may not be available by now, but standardizati= on efforts of ECN based network and transport behavior have grown in the la= st decade. This list isn't exhaustive and others are invited to append or discuss the = above scenarios. Hints on "how to detect" and "how to separate impact" of e= ffects impairing capacity measurements are welcome (especially those easy t= o implement :) . Regards, Ruediger -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: ippm Im Auftrag von MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. Januar 2020 16:14 An: ippm@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-00.t= xt Hi IPPM, Thanks to everyone who supported adoption of our draft. This version simply changes the filename. At the IETF-106 Hackathon, we encountered some new conditions in our testin= g with the prototype implementation: https://github.com/IETF-Hackathon/ietf106-project-presentations/blob/master= /106-acm-Hackathon-Measurements.pdf Load Adjustment:=20 Search Algorithm uses Loss and delay variation feedback Observed: Random loss throughout some tests, with insignificant delay variation Possible revisions to Search Algorithm, etc. under these conditions: Add a variable Loss threshold for conditions encountered Continue "large" rate increases when loss-only is encountered May need longer test durations under Loss-only Conditions We'd like to discuss these findings further with the WG, and run some more = tests to answer questions and investigate further. regards, Al, for the co-authors From nobody Wed Feb 5 04:24:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD0A120073; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 04:24:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nCvyYCaGBcTx; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 04:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42d.google.com (mail-wr1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E765120048; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 04:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id u6so2527098wrt.0; Wed, 05 Feb 2020 04:24:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=EQkidOI+fz91lWEdanl6SOLo4Fi2PYGE4VtHdLrM2AE=; b=iLhb9kKAMXkK7XEE/4OZwvDRcsgem5BESsCfik3UcUCf33cMob30awg3xuKjf9uZrC JYmMm2GaNiE/qQzeM84QVtMPwIqPSQHriezcn80Qv/all2eoSuMtKUvsVvR9VKzVLpf/ P9FCMIIYU09G9czuzp9puf0FeZ0KhNj6RMVjfw6F14vXjipQfnbpOx5y5Nc42RW6EpI7 qQfMUW66GOSPZKSg20zABs2q6a32uHOYzIkX/j+IxW0wN2L2ZEwuqe+Hhmc6SDL4Gn4L EJcQbb2qocLojJu/IEmrSgTf3ZCJY18qGvyI6/LLReutJP0hN3CuBoZnTTokW+ek6wRl yFfg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EQkidOI+fz91lWEdanl6SOLo4Fi2PYGE4VtHdLrM2AE=; b=c2pxoX+e7gLf48qY0N18swj5db0dNINobTvAUTE7jWKFZ7asaQkbhBTIoI4BUwKvHu jWe4VrD+qOZ9grhTwjTkFo7CeujvMKS+noNP9SlVgguBk+yW836HsZUS6ANYJdw/IiUe p2hqmhAguh/UIuZll2ObSEiC+uxtZWFBgEo6ZFYra9fxgND44HtzBTtuCQrisUM72nw8 jLwj4jGKr68gYi1DticlS9r78AKsFavIn+Yq1FT7Nv1deaOVQ4+7rpT5Mg1jF6Hc+96h jTrRjIIBxiOcs6Ih/MqlhhmCabJ7UNcr7ik5uw62XxC3AAVj/GvfUX2Oha0MPu/7TVJJ f+ag== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVW+6eNzeTauYbGzfRtuOHKNJeJUluZBxQoLbdENazZ1KhQeulO BHbO7praaBHi0iRLPKZA6ewVgH5rygd1uXtBfiwTfVLX X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwi5uX7u4NG/iDI6TbVR8XLiTvIZeAKY3LEvQPqjgKbpQg+8i+VPFSmT8QYTsjus4yfmy/Ef+8WmdX1XukP7p0= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4702:: with SMTP id y2mr19717093wrq.37.1580905447710; Wed, 05 Feb 2020 04:24:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <863a0f21a4a84f32856976465cada97f@TELMBXA06RM001.telecomitalia.local> In-Reply-To: <863a0f21a4a84f32856976465cada97f@TELMBXA06RM001.telecomitalia.local> From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 14:23:56 +0200 Message-ID: To: Cociglio Mauro Cc: IETF IPPM WG , IPPM Chairs , "draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a264e0059dd33b82" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] IPR Poll for draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2020 12:24:12 -0000 --000000000000a264e0059dd33b82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mauro, Thanks for the update. Once the updated IPR disclosure is submitted we can proceed with the publication process. Cheers, Tal. On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 6:51 PM Cociglio Mauro < mauro.cociglio@telecomitalia.it> wrote: > Hi All, > > we have submitted to IETF an update to our previous IPR declaration. It > will be published as soon as the IETF Secretariat completes its checks, > hopefully in a few days. The updated declaration refers to the very same > patents as our two previous declarations: the update is aimed only at > acknowledging the publication of a previously unpublished (yet declared) > patent application and including updated patent data. > > I am not aware of any additional IPR. > > Best Regards. > > Mauro > > _____________________ > Mauro Cociglio > Telecom Italia-TIM > Via G. Reiss Romoli, 274 > 10148 - Torino (Italy) > Tel.: +390112285028 > Mobile: +393357669751 > _____________________ > > > > Da: Tal Mizrahi > Inviato: mercoled=C3=AC 29 gennaio 2020 14:09 > A: IETF IPPM WG ; IPPM Chairs ; > draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org > Oggetto: [EXT] IPR Poll for draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 > > Hi, > > This email begins a one-week poll for any IPRs that may apply to > draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to > draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04? > > Specifically, if you are listed as a document author, please respond to > this email (reply-to-all) stating whether or not you are aware of any > relevant IPRs beyond the IPRs that have already been reported. > > Two IPRs have been disclosed for this draft so far: > 3035 Telecom Italia SpA's Statement about IPR related to > draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark > 3110 Telecom Italia SpA's Statement about IPR related to > draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark > (Updates ID#: 3035) > > These disclosures are available at > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-i= ppm-multipoint-alt-mark > > If you are aware of a relevant IPR, please state whether this IPR has bee= n > disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 an= d > 5378 for more details). > > This poll closes on the 5th of February 2020. > > Best regards, > Tal. > [As shepherd of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark] > > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle > persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante > dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualo= ra > abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati d= i > darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua > distruzione, Grazie. > > This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privilege= d > information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, > printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the > intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and > advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks. > > Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=A8 necessario. > --000000000000a264e0059dd33b82 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mauro,

Thanks for the update.
<= div>Once the updated IPR disclosure is submitted we can proceed with the pu= blication process.

Cheers,
Tal.

On = Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 6:51 PM Cociglio Mauro <mauro.cociglio@telecomitalia.it> wrote:
Hi All,

we have submitted to IETF an update to our previous IPR declaration. It wil= l be published as soon as the IETF Secretariat completes its checks, hopefu= lly in a few days. The updated declaration refers to the very same patents = as our two previous declarations: the update is aimed only at acknowledging= the publication of a previously unpublished (yet declared) patent applicat= ion and including updated patent data.

I am not aware of any additional IPR.

Best Regards.

Mauro

_____________________
Mauro Cociglio
Telecom Italia-TIM
Via G. Reiss Romoli, 274
10148 - Torino (Italy)
Tel.: +390112285028
Mobile: +393357669751
_____________________



Da: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
Inviato: mercoled=C3=AC 29 gennaio 2020 14:09
A: IETF IPPM WG <ippm= @ietf.org>; IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-mult= ipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org
Oggetto: [EXT] IPR Poll for draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04

Hi,

This email begins a one-week poll for any=C2=A0IPRs=C2=A0that may apply to = draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04.

Are you aware of any=C2=A0IPR=C2=A0that applies to draft-ietf-ippm-multipoi= nt-alt-mark-04?=C2=A0

Specifically, if you are listed as a document author, please respond to thi= s email (reply-to-all) stating whether or not you are aware of any relevant= =C2=A0IPRs beyond the IPRs that have already been reported.

Two IPRs have been disclosed for this draft so far:
3035 Telecom Italia SpA's Statement about IPR related to draft-fioccola= -ippm-multipoint-alt-mark
3110 Telecom Italia SpA's Statement about IPR related to draft-fioccola= -ippm-multipoint-alt-mark
(Updates ID#: 3035)

These disclosures are available at=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/se= arch/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark

If you are aware of a relevant=C2=A0IPR, please state whether this=C2=A0IPR= =C2=A0has been disclosed in compliance with IETF=C2=A0IPR=C2=A0rules (see R= FCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

This poll closes on the 5th of February 2020.

Best regards,
Tal.
[As shepherd of=C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark]

Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks.

Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=A8 necessario.=
--000000000000a264e0059dd33b82-- From nobody Wed Feb 5 04:26:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70C12120048; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 04:26:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FQhs6-uzu3lb; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 04:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com (mail-wr1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6427E1200F7; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 04:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id z9so2464877wrs.10; Wed, 05 Feb 2020 04:26:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qXsAf9cAF+j0JIC8Ij1AL/pmysrGfV/MIE+p77k3E/M=; b=gH59I2k1jNNe/znj8IKu3P2z60ntMs58lF5/ZQcXgksqFv3zhBYd+oeC6/CyYg7QI4 1ZfwTPlBz4po1StZyme3UIS9FTKDACcUEcuOOfZM+i/ia6O6vk3XefVhA987lb42RnYv A+EhUDUkBO6ZoPw6NaMpf3GSz3fux4Oxt9IqYgeTjxiMhxrxngUehr5w5uKKdvd9/NsA qI/6mswfVFMJPsjxhUQ5yqnuzf6aahnvw275xd4iG38bBn4L4+LBBQMuZxJ6skGo+OxM 2dsJdiSSCq6almlctOIKBteyhEWtfMjcvbvy0sDpOQ1q+B9ZHxzj6s7hB2F/O+F9MMMr RbtA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qXsAf9cAF+j0JIC8Ij1AL/pmysrGfV/MIE+p77k3E/M=; b=USAapS4wssqnozhryhKtIOsYB3nTt/oN0RIDd4Wvm2BCIu4uEfb8YoQABvS0hUDv9T EabU0hnvlFr1SB4xXjTG+GI5R5fv67yuEQ55QJ2RZ4oiBvHeJ62Ia0EgmyC8nOYngsQM jw2soMOZ2BZcjt4xU1rtTBmp3MfynIpmunKawdgneCHJCEkF3crHz4az4N2RYH1l8kpo orIObORoF9Bt+QrlaCyf6NVSvwbqGWcwf0I1RlCMhXtfpKbpkFfbPhbbPlgmaopYFXI+ 5DhV44zgHY/9mdtIbxyLzieIK3TGImf1AJR9/sPrhGdyiAoRf8K2YSqIxgzR514w8ai+ fH8A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVdN8jn953VUP17WHE8JdrpFqu+We7njDJKTwyKr7PKpw5PKeXK r54sz9jg7VQmvgx8SL7Bv+UZRym/IQ6FnBCQPNl319LW X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwHGflVfZgeE1izQOvtiVl3PrDySjB1A9f0yQPow/h5Q82bFqZUn7pyhLpZ3DewQqw8kN5AJtNKW812jOGDvjo= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4ed0:: with SMTP id s16mr29132787wrv.144.1580905559955; Wed, 05 Feb 2020 04:25:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 14:25:48 +0200 Message-ID: To: Giuseppe Fioccola Cc: IETF IPPM WG , "draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000531cbe059dd342e2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Shepherd review of draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2020 12:26:03 -0000 --000000000000531cbe059dd342e2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Giuseppe, Thanks for the quick revision update. Looks good. Once the IPR poll is complete we will continue with the process. Cheers, Tal. On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 12:02 PM Giuseppe Fioccola < giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi Tal, > > I have just submitted the new -05 version. > > Please let me know if this addresses your remarks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > *From:* Tal Mizrahi [mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, January 30, 2020 12:17 PM > *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > *Cc:* IETF IPPM WG ; > draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: Shepherd review of > draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 > > > > Hi Giuseppe, > > > > Sounds good to me. > > If you can update the draft based on these responses that would be great. > > > > Cheers, > > Tal. > > > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 12:37 PM Giuseppe Fioccola < > giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com> wrote: > > Dear Tal, > > Please find my answers inline tagged as [GF]. > > Let me know if these address your comments, so I can update and submit a > new version. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > *From:* Tal Mizrahi [mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 2:50 PM > *To:* IETF IPPM WG ; > draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org > *Subject:* Shepherd review of draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 > > > > Dear authors, > > > > I believe this document is ready for publication, with a few minor > comments. > > If the authors can kindly address these comments and post an updated > version, we will proceed with the publication process. > > > > Comments: > > > > Section 5: > "The Monitored Network Packet Loss with n input nodes and m output nodes > is given by" > Please clarify whether the metric PL is measured on a per flow (5-tuple) > basis, as defined in Section 4, or measured globally for all the flows. > > > > [GF]: The Monitored Network Packet Loss is measured for one single flow > but since it is a multipoint flow, the identification fields of the > 5-tuple, in general, can be selected without any constraints. I can specify > better this point. > > > > Section 5: > "The equation is applied on a per-time-interval basis." > Please note that the term time interval has not been defined before this > point in the document. This would be a good point to add a sentence that > explains that an "interval" is derived from an alternating marking field. > > > > [GF]: Sure. I will add a note about the interval here referred, that is > the alternate marking period as defined in RFC 8321. > > > > Section 6: > Please clarify whether a cluster is defined on a per-flow basis, or is it > assumed that all flows are monitored at all times. > > > > [GF]: Yes, the Cluster is defined on a per-flow basis. I can add a > sentence to clarify. > > > > Section 7: > "In general the measurement interval for describing the results is the > interval of the marking node that is more aligned with the start of the > measurement" > Please clarify what "more aligned" means. The figure seems to indicate > that the measurement interval is determined by the node with the earliest > clock, thus starting the measurement interval ahead of the other nodes. > > > > [GF]: Yes, in this case we assume that the node with the earliest clock > identifies the right starting time of the measurement, but it is just an > assumption and other possibilities can happen. This is to introduce the new > constraint that needs to be considered for the proper function of the > method. I will clarify this point as well. > > > > > > Cheers, > > Tal Mizrahi. > > [As shepherd of draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark] > > --000000000000531cbe059dd342e2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Giuseppe,

Thanks for the quick revis= ion update.
Looks good.

Once the IPR pol= l is complete we will continue with the process.

C= heers,
Tal.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 12:02 PM Giuseppe Fiocco= la <giuseppe.fioccola@hu= awei.com> wrote:

Hi Tal,

I have just submitted the new -05 version.

Please let me know if this addresses your re= marks.

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Giuseppe

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Tal Mizrahi [mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 12:17 PM
To: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.= org
Subject: Re: Shepherd review of draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-m= ark-04

=C2=A0

Hi Giuseppe,

=C2=A0

Sounds good to me.

If you can update the draft based on these responses= that would be great.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Tal.

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 12:37 PM Giuseppe Fioccola &= lt;giusep= pe.fioccola@huawei.com> wrote:

Dear Tal,

Please find my answers inline tagged as [GF]= .

Let me know if these address your comments, = so I can update and submit a new version.

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Giuseppe

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Tal Mizrahi [mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 2:50 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG <i= ppm@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org
Subject: Shepherd review of draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-= 04

=C2=A0

Dear authors,

=C2=A0

I believe this document is ready for publication, wi= th a few minor comments.

If the authors can kindly address these comments and= post an updated version, we will proceed with the publication process.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Comments:

=C2=A0

Section 5:
"The Monitored Network Packet Loss with n input nodes and m output nod= es is given by"
Please clarify whether the metric PL is measured on a per flow (5-tuple) ba= sis, as defined in Section 4, or measured globally for all the flows.

=C2=A0

[GF]: The Monitored Network Packet Loss is m= easured for one single flow but since it is a multipoint flow, the identification fields of the 5-tuple, in general, can be selecte= d without any constraints. I can specify better this point.



Section 5:
"The equation is applied on a per-time-interval basis."
Please note that the term time interval has not been defined before this po= int in the document. This would be a good point to add a sentence that expl= ains that an "interval" is derived from an alternating marking fi= eld.

=C2=A0

[GF]: Sure. I will add a note about the inte= rval here referred, that is the alternate marking period as defined in RFC 8321.



Section 6:
Please clarify whether a cluster is defined on a per-flow basis, or is it a= ssumed that all flows are monitored at all times.

=C2=A0

[GF]: Yes, the Cluster is defined on a per-f= low basis. I can add a sentence to clarify.



Section 7:
"In general the measurement interval for describing the results is the= interval of the marking node that is more aligned with the start of the me= asurement"
Please clarify what "more aligned" means. The figure seems to ind= icate that the measurement interval is determined by the node with the earl= iest clock, thus starting the measurement interval ahead of the other nodes= .

=C2=A0

[GF]: Yes, in this case we assume that the n= ode with the earliest clock identifies the right starting time of the measurement, but it is just an assumption and other possibilit= ies can happen. This is to introduce the new constraint that needs to be co= nsidered for the proper function of the method. I will clarify this point a= s well.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Tal Mizrahi.

[As shepherd of draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-m= ark]

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Received: from lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 3DC8ABF26105075E744B; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 13:27:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 13:27:13 +0000 Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) by fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 14:27:13 +0100 Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) by fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 14:27:13 +0100 From: Giuseppe Fioccola To: Tal Mizrahi CC: IETF IPPM WG , "draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Shepherd review of draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 Thread-Index: AQHV1qsKRjo7Ii7jskm1WJ1UaRyaF6gC+VHQgAAGMQCAAYt1sIAH9boAgAAbuWA= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 13:27:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.210.166.192] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_c4655b06c783494da10bf6ae83ab87b4huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Shepherd review of draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2020 13:27:21 -0000 --_000_c4655b06c783494da10bf6ae83ab87b4huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgVGFsLA0KT2ssIHRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgdGhlIGZlZWRiYWNrIQ0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpH 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Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <158097708493.12449.4723447619627764235@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 00:18:04 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 08:18:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : In-situ OAM Direct Exporting Authors : Haoyu Song Barak Gafni Tianran Zhou Zhenbin Li Frank Brockners Shwetha Bhandari Ramesh Sivakolundu Tal Mizrahi Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2020-02-06 Abstract: In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is used for recording and collecting operational and telemetry information. Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into data packets while they traverse the network. This document introduces a new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, which is used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported without being pushed into in-flight data packets. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Feb 6 00:31:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5385D12004D for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2020 00:31:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u67i3HJLbJtG for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2020 00:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com (mail-wr1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DC5E120024 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2020 00:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id y17so6034889wrh.5 for ; Thu, 06 Feb 2020 00:31:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=NrBqI3dXevfWGGmhZYmx8HqiFLB7vu9i0mnDyZAdhdU=; b=h82rHvR1Io0HcR6ofI1limn4YkYpHcQuO13QkitFLmfoTWQg/fKOZOhG5mbxqwr7CE BgLND6De+zpZmDyjs4mMLxPzeW1vpWV02q0Org1dGBWhr+Cpk334P+Rldq0wsF3qc7+2 pB+jkSnqCsp2d5oXBkVP1E2comaFPfcSQHFzgqWmHmsCFJGUBMa4fEG+bcGf4dJVCgHn nzSnLNl4LzpfwGSU4TFBABq5tRzFLjv/6gzadqMEgchQAs0UzE6baXSRMVmXx5XphIdE +8TrQsTOXLQhP9947wNW4+ZT3/M74EcVB1gIwbrWwxOY6ReosbDbDHWlNk1KgWv9dbKs BpzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=NrBqI3dXevfWGGmhZYmx8HqiFLB7vu9i0mnDyZAdhdU=; b=gpkTkkUlC58FJNX/br3YOlMTvmVYkLMQ7SEN+jfCe5OdrTd1dwF5Jz7OFKK1BMADDN whNOETtlOL18Ly0SYNHojQp8yTfxkBYJ34gP1AFgjyhp3j0kQvX0v6GDuz40/V7hyLJI 5WCifIO8ENkJQbgtTK6Ky/F3tBp/jGinRQdEBfywMm4h72A0JdVgCUF6itsBqL7uFYph LbssfWpv8YNp2X3FvNVu+uAEfPfabF73916s2tuShdfJDsYG5x1Yl7obhImKZnLHLpRX /i2FguUWVmmpTGlPWCnbFsWhYFsuPsOh4sbfdl6ttS4rri4IO6bLCDAv/KwSTGoIHPaG +4UA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUb5EnsuqLcLqE9oc5A6ZoT7pjwRmn7OPl2rgeTGKb1sPDBqSAV VYMn91YPb69CG4lHU2c2pCumxYX7W+BMUdbGyEOAmiBL0nI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyeKWeGra30nyfcDyUrPEU1sPtYwbznYtqgR3NfrpK50SLyvqXmAO2vaDBEEwGqQp8d8KNibaZYYNJYzGiBpH0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:11d0:: with SMTP id i16mr2596998wrx.188.1580977899628; Thu, 06 Feb 2020 00:31:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158097708493.12449.4723447619627764235@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <158097708493.12449.4723447619627764235@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 10:31:27 +0200 Message-ID: To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001aec47059de41a2f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 08:31:44 -0000 --0000000000001aec47059de41a2f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, This is the first "draft-ietf" version of this document, with minor changes compared to the previous version. The main changes compared to the previous version: - The term collector was replaced by a more general term - "receiving entity". - Some unused references were removed. We would like feedback regarding the main open issue in this document (described in Section 7), regarding the Hop Limit / Hop Count. Specifically, we are looking for feedback about the question: do you think the DEX option should include an explicit Hop Count field? Cheers, Tal. On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 10:18 AM wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. > > Title : In-situ OAM Direct Exporting > Authors : Haoyu Song > Barak Gafni > Tianran Zhou > Zhenbin Li > Frank Brockners > Shwetha Bhandari > Ramesh Sivakolundu > Tal Mizrahi > Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00.txt > Pages : 10 > Date : 2020-02-06 > > Abstract: > In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is used > for recording and collecting operational and telemetry information. > Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into data > packets while they traverse the network. This document introduces a > new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, which is > used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported without being > pushed into in-flight data packets. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --0000000000001aec47059de41a2f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

This is the first "draft-ietf&= quot; version of this document, with minor changes compared to the previous= version.
The main changes compared to the previous version:
- The term collector was replaced by a more general term - "rece= iving entity".
- Some unused references were removed.
<= div>
We would like feedback regarding the main open issue in = this document (described in Section 7), regarding the Hop Limit / Hop Count= . Specifically, we are looking for feedback about the question: do you thin= k the DEX option should include an explicit Hop Count field?
=
Cheers,
Tal.


On Thu, Feb 6, 20= 20 at 10:18 AM <internet-dra= fts@ietf.org> wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF.=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= In-situ OAM Direct Exporting
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Haoy= u Song
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Barak Gafni
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tianran Zhou
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Zhenbin Li
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Frank Brockners
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Shwetha Bhandari
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ramesh Sivakolundu
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tal Mizrahi
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 10
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2020-02-06

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is = used
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for recording and collecting operational and telemetry informa= tion.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into dat= a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets while they traverse the network.=C2=A0 This document i= ntroduces a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, wh= ich is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported withou= t being
=C2=A0 =C2=A0pushed into in-flight data packets.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i= etf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00
https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
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Thu, 6 Feb 2020 11:08:37 +0000 From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" To: Tommy Pauly , IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: [ippm] Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data Thread-Index: AQHVxXo6Tdne2RKNvUiZXnvcjdbYaaf+7smAgA8/PXA= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 11:08:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7E27249A-E86C-4E4C-9DD2-388D9741AD1D@apple.com> In-Reply-To: <7E27249A-E86C-4E4C-9DD2-388D9741AD1D@apple.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=fbrockne@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [173.38.220.58] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4eae4792-c297-4d72-4645-08d7aaf4ea18 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB2598: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 0305463112 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10001)(10009020)(4636009)(136003)(396003)(366004)(376002)(39860400002)(346002)(199004)(189003)(7696005)(86362001)(9686003)(55016002)(4326008)(8676002)(64756008)(81166006)(81156014)(110136005)(66446008)(66476007)(66556008)(66946007)(107886003)(76116006)(316002)(2906002)(33656002)(52536014)(8936002)(5660300002)(53546011)(71200400001)(6506007)(478600001)(966005)(186003)(26005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR11MB2598; H:BYAPR11MB2584.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: qJQyRAghhBNSgx8xd7kkXrlbkyKGzZgAqzBiiBJowXY4KxqRFqCF0gRSXXMQHsITIb7R/U9tbDUBjG6xGVKeEYb60wm6CtXcZNs7QQMcZJMvkdEv9znRwDu0LvuoDhTnD0AIJI/Ckno81pty88/jJg== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BYAPR11MB258467266A6DBA5669411769DA1D0BYAPR11MB2584namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4eae4792-c297-4d72-4645-08d7aaf4ea18 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Feb 2020 11:08:36.9317 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: WRhkCk+TmpPW251oy77scj1EEQwErTJ7+pyyRV9tvBEGrP+yioDdIRIChMrWdJgU1wEOrNN15kW4J9hZwFJVKA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB2598 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.15, xch-aln-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 11:08:44 -0000 --_000_BYAPR11MB258467266A6DBA5669411769DA1D0BYAPR11MB2584namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many thanks to all the reviewers of draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 for their = excellent and detailed feedback. In order to structure process of including the feedback in the next revisio= n of the document we've created a set of issues on git which not only conta= in the individual feedback, grouped by topic areas, but also suggest an app= roach on how to tackle an individual item: * Issue #149: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Editorial * Issue #150: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Nomenclatur= e * Issue #151: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Clarificati= ons to SHOULD statements * Issue #152: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Add further= detail/clarifications to existing definitions * Issue #153: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Changes to = existing definitions * Issue #154: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Suggestions= for additional data fields * Issue #155: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Security re= lated * Issue #156: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Needs clari= fication on timestamp insertion in E2E option * Issue #157: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Editorial o= n Pre-allocated and Incremental Trace Options * Issue #158: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Trace-Flags= Registry clarification * Issue #159: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 WGLC#1 comments: Editorial D= EX leftovers It would be great if you could review the list to ensure that it is complet= e and captures all the feedback received. It would also be great to receive= feedback on the suggested approaches - either on git or here on the list, = to help and guide creating appropriate text in the document. Thanks much, Shwetha & Frank From: ippm On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly Sent: Montag,27. Januar 2020 19:09 To: Tommy Pauly Cc: IETF IPPM WG Subject: Re: [ippm] Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data Hi IPPM, Thanks for the feedback on this draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data! Based on the reviews, we would like to see a new version of the document po= sted, so that the group can take a look at those changes and see if we thin= k we're ready after that. Authors, please post a new version when ready. Best, Tommy On Jan 7, 2020, at 8:47 AM, Tommy Pauly > wrote: Hello IPPM, Happy New Year! This email starts a working group last call for "Data Field= s for In-situ OAM" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-d= ata/). The last call will end on Tuesday, January 21. Please reply to ippm@ietf.or= g with your reviews and comments. Please indicate whe= ther you think this document is ready for publication. Best, Tommy (as co-chair) _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --_000_BYAPR11MB258467266A6DBA5669411769DA1D0BYAPR11MB2584namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Many thanks to all the reviewers of draft-ietf-ippm-= ioam-data-08 for their excellent and detailed feedback.

 

In order to structure process of including the feedb= ack in the next revision of the document we’ve created a set of issue= s on git which not only contain the individual feedback, grouped by topic a= reas, but also suggest an approach on how to tackle an individual item:

 

It would be great if you could review the list to ensure that it is co= mplete and captures all the feedback received. It would also be great to re= ceive feedback on the suggested approaches – either on git or here on the list, to help and guide creating appr= opriate text in the document.

 

Thanks much, Shwetha & Frank

 

 

 

From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> O= n Behalf Of Tommy Pauly
Sent: Montag,27. Januar 2020 19:09
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-da= ta

 

Hi IPPM,

 

Thanks for the feedback on this draft-ietf-ippm-ioam= -data!

 

Based on the reviews, we would like to see a new ver= sion of the document posted, so that the group can take a look at those cha= nges and see if we think we're ready after that.

 

Authors, please post a new version when ready.<= /o:p>

 

Best,

Tommy



On Jan 7, 2020, at 8:47 AM, Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.= ietf.org> wrote:

 

Hello IPPM,

 

Happy New Year! This email starts a working group la= st call for "Data Fields for In-situ OAM" (https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data/).

 

The last call will end on Tuesday, January 21= . Please reply to ippm@ietf.org with your reviews and co= mments. Please indicate whether you think this document is ready for public= ation.

 

Best,

Tommy (as co-chair)

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/ippm

 

--_000_BYAPR11MB258467266A6DBA5669411769DA1D0BYAPR11MB2584namp_-- From nobody Thu Feb 6 13:11:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183471200EB for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2020 13:11:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dUHK5KtSKkYQ for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2020 13:11:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A846412022A for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2020 13:11:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049459.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049459.ppops.net-00191d01. 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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 21:11:23 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CFA6F21E3E@njmtexg5.research.att.com> References: <158097708493.12449.4723447619627764235@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [67.44.176.73] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CFA6F21E3Enjmtexg5researc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.138, 18.0.572 definitions=2020-02-06_04:2020-02-06, 2020-02-06 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2001150001 definitions=main-2002060155 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: 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<158154440748.17943.3567752775681715426@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 13:53:27 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] IPR Disclosure Telecom Italia SpA's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 21:53:27 -0000 Dear Giuseppe Fioccola, Mauro Cociglio, Amedeo Sapio, Riccardo Sisto: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Multipoint Alternate Marking method for passive and hybrid performance monitoring" (draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on 2020-01-30 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4010/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Telecom Italia SpA's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark" Thank you IETF Secretariat From nobody Fri Feb 14 06:43:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9630E1200EB; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 06:43:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H8I5h7e6avEv; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 06:43:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CFB0120041; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 06:43:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from 200116b82cce2c003443774cfc046e7a.dip.versatel-1u1.de ([2001:16b8:2cce:2c00:3443:774c:fc04:6e7a]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1j2cBr-0000RG-Kp; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 15:43:35 +0100 From: Mirja Kuehlewind Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-Id: <5D925664-B2D7-462C-AF5E-3286DCE1E40D@kuehlewind.net> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 15:43:34 +0100 Cc: IPPM Chairs , Martin Duke , Magnus Westerlund To: IETF IPPM WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1581691420;b4f16b03; X-HE-SMSGID: 1j2cBr-0000RG-Kp Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Welcome Ian Swett as new chair! X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 14:43:43 -0000 Hi group, I just added Ian Swett as a new chair to IPPM. Brian and Bill will step = back as chair after the Vancouver meeting. To have a smooth transition = period we will have four chairs until then. Welcome Ian and thanks for helping out! Mirja From nobody Fri Feb 14 06:49:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FE271200CC for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 06:49:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1kFDb5L-bG7U for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 06:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com (mail-wr1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0FFB120041 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 06:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id k11so11186853wrd.9 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 06:48:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ctufFUnzC6KqQumS3z20QV+th1rexrZE4gkH1L+L/iY=; b=vq2SLkvCraPV/2eUGOBHkKhFGEJhYB5XRV6/1HFmsi0xwAjeXEO3uHnHXC8zAe8VUl hNxtsubbS22LOhEUfL97UYPdgv2dB0/9Yq/bBK+yjUg2H4iF12jvc9E1PNHUMZM2ly// mBK/orOCXzT/Bnduout8FUjbCD91dWpxMfnYXY93sFZ2O+5oteRmodiZSs0hEmwzBc41 MZiIJZV+FfnnkNruZscUTWEX8oDllXy8Pu1y7TD5qvL9Z1WqvLVoazu5D1lqfUpVMicD Eag0/Qg9JfM/UqDHeBcLSiU59bW8Tl9OE+XDeK+tvM9QsBg/RhDdsVtl13EZCFJeTHpA ZKfQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ctufFUnzC6KqQumS3z20QV+th1rexrZE4gkH1L+L/iY=; b=kQK7zc854WlJ8pM0i8yLnSEpp7hdMabnM/HjEShhzAAv4ohHGWVkIttAy/6GPFE570 DWdbbWB5QtOwKngkEUwjyCKMHeFAcyvcubY6EbSIecogM5jEA/4RU1DArUG/gIRAVp9J 18AIbC+qfUGDcFPRGvBFGpJZiNWhCcxvnkY0tqiewN2c3/QyNDkZxNxwPgg1Z7lSqoe0 1zE0hhAgFCygGQbCFOYjZ70NBqKytKYvnjf0CSwfkYN+KX7g6XKjw9HLW9mjDbIbu8aM O4ssXcMsfRiM3nE6Erz0vFo4xvnROtfq0eByHXsqKnUiP9rmcCWFt7aSbPONv4PAkM3a Dfeg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWYk9ytijWxLoQzIUKZbBlpF4R64/5pHDyPyvDYMktJpMaMAW/K tGiYisIEwX2iF8DLK3i49EluI0ctt14CYNnNvZxmvg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx8akNAE6mfZzMk7ATd7KbyVRSLOu23sgBJd7/Kf4OLTjmSsk7yDDVpngM7CH301tlzwAP6yrk52f9nzB5oFns= X-Received: by 2002:adf:8b59:: with SMTP id v25mr4541462wra.419.1581691736952; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 06:48:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5D925664-B2D7-462C-AF5E-3286DCE1E40D@kuehlewind.net> In-Reply-To: <5D925664-B2D7-462C-AF5E-3286DCE1E40D@kuehlewind.net> From: Ian Swett Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:48:43 -0500 Message-ID: To: Mirja Kuehlewind Cc: IETF IPPM WG , IPPM Chairs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002081cb059e8a4ef8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Welcome Ian Swett as new chair! X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 14:49:03 -0000 --0000000000002081cb059e8a4ef8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks for the welcome, Mirja. I look forward to chairing IPPM. See everyone in Vancouver. On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 9:43 AM Mirja Kuehlewind wrote: > Hi group, > > I just added Ian Swett as a new chair to IPPM. Brian and Bill will step > back as chair after the Vancouver meeting. To have a smooth transition > period we will have four chairs until then. > > Welcome Ian and thanks for helping out! > > Mirja > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --0000000000002081cb059e8a4ef8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the welcome, Mirja.

I look forward to c= hairing IPPM.=C2=A0 See everyone in Vancouver.

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at= 9:43 AM Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@k= uehlewind.net> wrote:
Hi group,

I just added Ian Swett as a new chair to IPPM. Brian and Bill will step bac= k as chair after the Vancouver meeting. To have a smooth transition period = we will have four chairs until then.

Welcome Ian and thanks for helping out!

Mirja


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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 06:25:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <863a0f21a4a84f32856976465cada97f@TELMBXA06RM001.telecomitalia.local> In-Reply-To: <863a0f21a4a84f32856976465cada97f@TELMBXA06RM001.telecomitalia.local> From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 16:24:57 +0200 Message-ID: To: Cociglio Mauro Cc: IETF IPPM WG , IPPM Chairs , "draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] IPR Poll for draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 14:25:13 -0000 Hi Mauro, A new IPR disclosure was filed last week with respect to this draft: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/JKQHqoGNjBv-fI24A17ibx4o_5Y Please indicate whether all the IPRs that you are aware of have been report= ed. Thanks, Tal. On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 6:51 PM Cociglio Mauro wrote: > > Hi All, > > we have submitted to IETF an update to our previous IPR declaration. It w= ill be published as soon as the IETF Secretariat completes its checks, hope= fully in a few days. The updated declaration refers to the very same patent= s as our two previous declarations: the update is aimed only at acknowledgi= ng the publication of a previously unpublished (yet declared) patent applic= ation and including updated patent data. > > I am not aware of any additional IPR. > > Best Regards. > > Mauro > > _____________________ > Mauro Cociglio > Telecom Italia-TIM > Via G. Reiss Romoli, 274 > 10148 - Torino (Italy) > Tel.: +390112285028 > Mobile: +393357669751 > _____________________ > > > > Da: Tal Mizrahi > Inviato: mercoled=C3=AC 29 gennaio 2020 14:09 > A: IETF IPPM WG ; IPPM Chairs ; draf= t-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org > Oggetto: [EXT] IPR Poll for draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 > > Hi, > > This email begins a one-week poll for any IPRs that may apply to draft-ie= tf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-m= ark-04? > > Specifically, if you are listed as a document author, please respond to t= his email (reply-to-all) stating whether or not you are aware of any releva= nt IPRs beyond the IPRs that have already been reported. > > Two IPRs have been disclosed for this draft so far: > 3035 Telecom Italia SpA's Statement about IPR related to draft-fioccola-i= ppm-multipoint-alt-mark > 3110 Telecom Italia SpA's Statement about IPR related to draft-fioccola-i= ppm-multipoint-alt-mark > (Updates ID#: 3035) > > These disclosures are available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/searc= h/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark > > If you are aware of a relevant IPR, please state whether this IPR has bee= n disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 an= d 5378 for more details). > > This poll closes on the 5th of February 2020. > > Best regards, > Tal. > [As shepherd of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark] > > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle p= ersone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante da= lla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora a= bbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di d= arne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzio= ne, Grazie. > > This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privilege= d information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, p= rinting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended= recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the s= ender by return e-mail, Thanks. > > Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=A8 necessario. From nobody Mon Feb 17 18:31:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E48120825 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 03:35:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telecomitalia.it Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YdUNcNEtWCSL for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 03:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx04.telecomitalia.it (mx04.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 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with SMTP id 26.2A.36460.67A7A4E5; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:35:18 +0100 (CET) From: Cociglio Mauro To: Tal Mizrahi , IETF IPPM WG , IPPM Chairs , "draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll for draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-04 Thread-Index: AdXascVYDAOawfMURDikHd+3H98u/wK0sN8g Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 11:35:17 +0000 Message-ID: <7352ab61546e4bb5a516742add30d91b@TELMBXA06RM001.telecomitalia.local> References: <863a0f21a4a84f32856976465cada97f@TELMBXA06RM001.telecomitalia.local> In-Reply-To: <863a0f21a4a84f32856976465cada97f@TELMBXA06RM001.telecomitalia.local> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.229.4.38] x-ti-disclaimer: ADBanner Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprLKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXCxfdHUresyivOYG67tEVP0wF2i9U7utks 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Y29udGFpbiBwcml2aWxlZ2VkIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGludGVuZGVkIGZvciB0aGUgYWRkcmVz c2VlKHMpIG9ubHkuIERpc3NlbWluYXRpb24sIGNvcHlpbmcsIHByaW50aW5nIG9yIHVzZSBi eSBhbnlib2R5IGVsc2UgaXMgdW5hdXRob3Jpc2VkLiBJZiB5b3UgYXJlIG5vdCB0aGUgaW50 ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50LCBwbGVhc2UgZGVsZXRlIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBhbmQgYW55IGF0 dGFjaG1lbnRzIGFuZCBhZHZpc2UgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBieSByZXR1cm4gZS1tYWlsLCBUaGFu a3MuIA0KDQpSaXNwZXR0YSBsJ2FtYmllbnRlLiBOb24gc3RhbXBhcmUgcXVlc3RhIG1haWwg c2Ugbm9uIMOoIG5lY2Vzc2FyaW8uDQo= From nobody Mon Feb 17 18:43:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA86D120838; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 09:52:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Tommy Pauly via Datatracker To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.117.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Tal Mizrahi , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com, ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <158196196195.24037.15031591394971795074.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 09:52:41 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 17:52:42 -0000 Tommy Pauly has requested publication of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05 as Experimental on behalf of the IPPM working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark/ From nobody Fri Feb 21 07:47:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420D5120852; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 07:47:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LAj72tAwjkck; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 07:47:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB6A2120876; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 07:47:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from 200116b824c4be0061570d07dc536186.dip.versatel-1u1.de ([2001:16b8:24c4:be00:6157:d07:dc53:6186]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1j5AWC-0000Cm-6C; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 16:47:08 +0100 From: Mirja Kuehlewind Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-Id: <930239D0-701D-43AD-994E-233271EABD4D@kuehlewind.net> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 16:47:07 +0100 Cc: IETF IPPM WG To: draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark.all@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1582300035;4c92b3a6; X-HE-SMSGID: 1j5AWC-0000Cm-6C Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] AD review of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:47:19 -0000 Hi authors, I=E2=80=99m ready to request IETF last call for this document. However, = I have one question I would like to discuss: Why is this document experimental? I know that RFC8321 is also = experimental, however, that was probably also a borderline decision but = in RFC8321 there are at last mechanisms that will be implemented in = interoperable protocols, while this document really only describes = mechanisms that can be applied based on existed singling. Further if = something is experimental, it also good practice to briefly discuss = =E2=80=9Cwhat the experiment is=E2=80=9D. However, I don=E2=80=99t see = this approbate here. Therefore for me this document is clearly = informational. =20 As I=E2=80=99m stepping in March, and we are therefore running a bit out = of time, I would like to start IETF last call today no matter what. If = you read this mail in the next hours and agree to change to = Informational, please do so right away and submit a new version. = Otherwise I will request IETF last call anyway later today. Given that = experimental and informational have the sam maturity level, we can still = change the intended status later without having to re-do the IETF last = call. Also, as no normative language is used, please remove the Requirements = Language disclaimer and reference to RFC2119 with the next update. Find below some minor editorial nits that you may want to address now or = in a later version! Thanks! Mirja ------ Some editorial nits: 1) Based on the RFC Style Guide RFC7322, you cannot use reference in the = abstract. It fine to have an RFC named there, just remove the reference. = Further I actually think the last sentence is probably not needed at all = in the abstract. 2) In Intro: OLD "The alternate marking method, as presented until now, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D NEW "The alternate marking method, as described in RFC 8321 [RFC8321], = =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D 3) In Intro: "Note that additional details about the Alternate Marking methodology are described in the paper [IEEE-Network-PNPM]=E2=80=9D Is this sentence really needed? Should the spec in RFC8321 be complete? (Note that the dot at the end of the sentence is also missing) 4) In Intro: s/BUM (Broadcast Unknown Unicast Multicast)/BUM (Broadcast, = Unknown-unicast, and Multicast)/ 5) sec 8.2.1: s/if we would perform a delay measurement/If we would perform a delay = measurement/ 6) sec 8.2.2: s/that don't match/that do not match/ 9) sec 9 s/flexibility to PM/flexibility to Performance Management (PM)/ From nobody Fri Feb 21 08:04:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4769E12084E; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:04:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.118.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <158230107418.29037.11158040277329825233@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:04:34 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 16:04:34 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional Extensions Authors : Greg Mirsky Xiao Min Henrik Nydell Richard Foote Adi Masputra Ernesto Ruffini Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2020-02-21 Abstract: This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performance metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base specification. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Feb 21 08:07:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC34120866 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:07:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FjEnuwzNjq8S for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:07:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEA1F12084E for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:07:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id n30so1072973lfh.6 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:07:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=cdkn/PEuPSxYesmF7GBNIuAaDjwTKwcd6KCgE3/7gIk=; b=XhvJnqR5PtEPxynYjKjID7iyDpjKWdtWp+R6rRt+NGUBrHzX7BXdfHUQ1yKAWDyP9R +NC4keuQEcVqFOjrvH7iw3lF3Ur22dimLauwdoIbQwGNv2GoyDA5LG87JTtDtMRHRzqD SQrXn8t6GmPXalvGK4KfKF0j5pHw+bvf4y+Nt5ZqPye+ZGu++mJhnokJFNCk5ELoWXeT b4ZzvNL+1wauxMHipjjhKmehi5gcxziSga/+R640vX9WDbyhPpIQrUvlHSjGDbX5aLq2 cjH6sRZExzLTx5YGem8HoldXkQdIdPEXq5wSkyhbJXzEa1aptjo2UczWKTc4E1ZFT0jj XtQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=cdkn/PEuPSxYesmF7GBNIuAaDjwTKwcd6KCgE3/7gIk=; b=YK0/yG33MWqiTfIdCllswiMElgijPDBr6cFU6I0rp2dBg/764WWEi4XKmHMAfGzqjV PR9l3BLh1+PIQGvPyDKakvV/ZZV4Zic/O81APIveN8hHNPv12LZh+LmISkb3Plj0Hyvy ZAqBM/hU9inPArVpFQL42nGnegdpHCNK7JxMZLLK2D/ujojtUukINxPeU53NcJB4FT6k sETOst4d/Po7JtlRPTgOg9YVChTrnA9FRHZ+BfyJz7thsyYXoanOchOIpxydPs6mEyLC Px5aNBShU0EFAoufxxxxxcB+9pdfAAb6ViX9n+FBmKWqbbGTsd+ToxyNuCUk7J5EB5vl h8fA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUgFS4sIOpjZprlNAGTzZrIvxo+EsiIsgvQCOK53uyttGk9nbKn T/Aho9ELsrqerff1cIQrkJNYoaCig9NcPuLbG/4hOg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyibywHth+yhfe8KByXNOxMJzBQ9j59TCMPmHyoEQvhi90+SPdHq+RCeXd9FMkputqlw8keq9kIc46GxvsUGoc= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:568a:: with SMTP id 10mr990631lfr.123.1582301247550; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:07:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158230107443.29037.14133930624764653909.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <158230107443.29037.14133930624764653909.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:07:16 -0800 Message-ID: To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c9bc2d059f183745" Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 16:07:33 -0000 --000000000000c9bc2d059f183745 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear All, the new version includes updates to the Followup Telemetry TLV and introduces the new HMAC TLV. We always welcome and greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and suggestions. Regards, Greg ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt To: Henrik Nydell , Min Xiao , Adi Masputra , Ernesto Ruffini , Gregory Mirsky , Richard Foote < footer.foote@nokia.com> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv Revision: 03 Title: Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional Extensions Document date: 2020-02-21 Group: ippm Pages: 25 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 Abstract: This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performance metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base specification. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --000000000000c9bc2d059f183745 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
the new version includes updates to the Foll= owup Telemetry TLV and introduces the new HMAC TLV.
We always wel= come and greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and suggestions.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ----= -----
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 a= t 8:04 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-op= tion-tlv-03.txt
To: Henrik Nydell <hnydell@accedian.com>, Min Xiao <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn>, Adi Masputra <adi@apple.com>, Ernesto Ruffini <eruffini@outsys.org>, Gregory Mirsky <<= a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Rich= ard Foote <footer.foote@nokia.= com>



A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-= tlv
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A003
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Simple Two-way Active Measurement = Protocol Optional Extensions
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-02-21
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ippm
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 25
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-= stamp-option-tlv-03.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0h= ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tl= v
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-= option-tlv-03

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way = Active
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performa= nce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specification.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--000000000000c9bc2d059f183745-- From nobody Fri Feb 21 12:14:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1BFB12008D; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:14:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wX9O5Z3ffEYQ; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:14:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DE541200B9; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:14:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id D2E55B6868C985739B12; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 20:14:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fraeml717-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.13) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 20:14:06 +0000 Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) by fraeml717-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 21:14:05 +0100 Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) by fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 21:14:05 +0100 From: Giuseppe Fioccola To: Mirja Kuehlewind , draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark.all CC: IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: AD review of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05 Thread-Index: AQHV6M47E18Lh4EwHESOUCSpGflrU6gmFVLK Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 20:14:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3d50c2e8249a4a19885c159517d706b7@huawei.com> References: <930239D0-701D-43AD-994E-233271EABD4D@kuehlewind.net> In-Reply-To: <930239D0-701D-43AD-994E-233271EABD4D@kuehlewind.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3d50c2e8249a4a19885c159517d706b7huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 20:14:26 -0000 --_000_3d50c2e8249a4a19885c159517d706b7huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mirja, I remember we had a similar discussion also for RFC8321. And I agree with y= ou, this document is borderline between Experimental and Informational. Anyway we can keep it Experimental and, as you suggested, we can discuss la= ter in the process if it is worth to change. I will submit the new version including the editorial nits early next week. Regards, Giuseppe ________________________________ Giuseppe Fioccola Mobile: +49-15222812418 Email: giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com From: Mirja Kuehlewind> To: draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark.all> Cc: IETF IPPM WG> Subject: AD review of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05 Time: 2020-02-21 16:47:33 Hi authors, I=92m ready to request IETF last call for this document. However, I have on= e question I would like to discuss: Why is this document experimental? I know that RFC8321 is also experimental= , however, that was probably also a borderline decision but in RFC8321 ther= e are at last mechanisms that will be implemented in interoperable protocol= s, while this document really only describes mechanisms that can be applied= based on existed singling. Further if something is experimental, it also g= ood practice to briefly discuss =93what the experiment is=94. However, I do= n=92t see this approbate here. Therefore for me this document is clearly in= formational. As I=92m stepping in March, and we are therefore running a bit out of time,= I would like to start IETF last call today no matter what. If you read thi= s mail in the next hours and agree to change to Informational, please do so= right away and submit a new version. Otherwise I will request IETF last ca= ll anyway later today. Given that experimental and informational have the s= am maturity level, we can still change the intended status later without ha= ving to re-do the IETF last call. Also, as no normative language is used, please remove the Requirements Lang= uage disclaimer and reference to RFC2119 with the next update. Find below some minor editorial nits that you may want to address now or in= a later version! Thanks! Mirja ------ Some editorial nits: 1) Based on the RFC Style Guide RFC7322, you cannot use reference in the ab= stract. It fine to have an RFC named there, just remove the reference. Furt= her I actually think the last sentence is probably not needed at all in the= abstract. 2) In Intro: OLD "The alternate marking method, as presented until now, =85=94 NEW "The alternate marking method, as described in RFC 8321 [RFC8321], =85=94 3) In Intro: "Note that additional details about the Alternate Marking methodology are described in the paper [IEEE-Network-PNPM]=94 Is this sentence really needed? Should the spec in RFC8321 be complete? (Note that the dot at the end of the sentence is also missing) 4) In Intro: s/BUM (Broadcast Unknown Unicast Multicast)/BUM (Broadcast, Unknown-unicast= , and Multicast)/ 5) sec 8.2.1: s/if we would perform a delay measurement/If we would perform a delay measu= rement/ 6) sec 8.2.2: s/that don't match/that do not match/ 9) sec 9 s/flexibility to PM/flexibility to Performance Management (PM)/ --_000_3d50c2e8249a4a19885c159517d706b7huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mirja,
I remember we&nbs= p;had a similar discussion also for RFC8321.&= nbsp;And I agree with you, this document = ;is borderline between Experimental and Informational.
Anyway we can&nbs= p;keep it Experimental and, as you suggested,=  we can discuss later in the process&nbs= p;if it is worth to change.
I will submit&nbs= p;the new version including the editorial nit= s early next week.

Regards,

Giuseppe



Giuseppe Fioccola
Mobile: +49-15222812418  =
Email: giuseppe.fioccola@huawei= .com


From: Mirja Kuehlewind<ietf@kuehlewind.net>
To: draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark.all<draft-ietf-ippm-multipo= int-alt-mark.all@ietf.org>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG<ippm@ietf.= org>
Subject: AD review of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05
Time: 2020-02-21 16:47:33

Hi authors,

I=92m ready to request IETF last call for this document. However, I have on= e question I would like to discuss:

Why is this document experimental? I know that RFC8321 is also experimental= , however, that was probably also a borderline decision but in RFC8321 ther= e are at last mechanisms that will be implemented in interoperable protocol= s, while this document really only describes mechanisms that can be applied based on existed singling. Furthe= r if something is experimental, it also good practice to briefly discuss = =93what the experiment is=94. However, I don=92t see this approbate here. T= herefore for me this document is clearly informational. 

As I=92m stepping in March, and we are therefore running a bit out of time,= I would like to start IETF last call today no matter what. If you read thi= s mail in the next hours and agree to change to Informational, please do so= right away and submit a new version. Otherwise I will request IETF last call anyway later today. Given that exp= erimental and informational have the sam maturity level, we can still chang= e the intended status later without having to re-do the IETF last call.

Also, as no normative language is used, please remove the Requirements Lang= uage disclaimer and reference to RFC2119 with the next update.

Find below some minor editorial nits that you may want to address now or in= a later version!

Thanks!
Mirja


------
Some editorial nits:

1) Based on the RFC Style Guide RFC7322, you cannot use reference in the ab= stract. It fine to have an RFC named there, just remove the reference. Furt= her I actually think the last sentence is probably not needed at all in the= abstract.

2) In Intro:
OLD
"The alternate marking method, as presented until now, =85=94
NEW
"The alternate marking method, as described in RFC 8321 [RFC8321], =85= =94

3) In Intro:
"Note that additional details about the
   Alternate Marking methodology are described in the paper
   [IEEE-Network-PNPM]=94
Is this sentence really needed? Should the spec in RFC8321 be complete?
(Note that the dot at the end of the sentence is also missing)

4) In Intro:
s/BUM (Broadcast Unknown Unicast Multicast)/BUM (Broadcast, Unknown-unicast= , and Multicast)/

5) sec 8.2.1:
s/if we would perform a delay measurement/If we would perform a delay measu= rement/

6) sec 8.2.2:
s/that don't match/that do not match/

9) sec 9
s/flexibility to PM/flexibility to Performance Management (PM)/


 --_000_3d50c2e8249a4a19885c159517d706b7huaweicom_-- From nobody Fri Feb 21 12:25:31 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2E91200EF; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:25:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MWikKYmCVlPm; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:25:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F86F120108; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:25:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from 200116b824c4be0061570d07dc536186.dip.versatel-1u1.de ([2001:16b8:24c4:be00:6157:d07:dc53:6186]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1j5ErL-0003Zz-47; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 21:25:15 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Mirja Kuehlewind In-Reply-To: <3d50c2e8249a4a19885c159517d706b7@huawei.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 21:25:14 +0100 Cc: "draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark.all" , IETF IPPM WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <64EA6BF3-7368-457F-BA61-D9545A1FA7E9@kuehlewind.net> References: <930239D0-701D-43AD-994E-233271EABD4D@kuehlewind.net> <3d50c2e8249a4a19885c159517d706b7@huawei.com> To: Giuseppe Fioccola X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1582316719;cf63f9f1; X-HE-SMSGID: 1j5ErL-0003Zz-47 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 20:25:30 -0000 Hi Giuseppe, Thanks for your quick reply. Okay, I requested IETF last call now. You can update these nits next week or you can also wait until end of = IETF last call in two weeks when you have also have feedback from the = GENART, OPSDIR, and SECDIR reviews. However, it would be good if you can = prepare these changes and then update immediately when the call is over, = as we have a bit time pressure here=E2=80=A6 Thanks! Mirja > On 21. Feb 2020, at 21:14, Giuseppe Fioccola = wrote: >=20 > Hi Mirja, > I remember we had a similar discussion also for RFC8321. And I agree = with you, this document is borderline between Experimental and = Informational. > Anyway we can keep it Experimental and, as you suggested, we can = discuss later in the process if it is worth to change. > I will submit the new version including the editorial nits early next = week. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Giuseppe >=20 >=20 >=20 > Giuseppe Fioccola > Mobile: +49-15222812418 =20 > Email: giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com >=20 >=20 > From: Mirja Kuehlewind > To: = draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark.all > Cc: IETF IPPM WG > Subject: AD review of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05 > Time: 2020-02-21 16:47:33 >=20 > Hi authors, >=20 > I=E2=80=99m ready to request IETF last call for this document. = However, I have one question I would like to discuss: >=20 > Why is this document experimental? I know that RFC8321 is also = experimental, however, that was probably also a borderline decision but = in RFC8321 there are at last mechanisms that will be implemented in = interoperable protocols, while this document really only describes = mechanisms that can be applied based on existed singling. Further if = something is experimental, it also good practice to briefly discuss = =E2=80=9Cwhat the experiment is=E2=80=9D. However, I don=E2=80=99t see = this approbate here. Therefore for me this document is clearly = informational. =20 >=20 > As I=E2=80=99m stepping in March, and we are therefore running a bit = out of time, I would like to start IETF last call today no matter what. = If you read this mail in the next hours and agree to change to = Informational, please do so right away and submit a new version. = Otherwise I will request IETF last call anyway later today. Given that = experimental and informational have the sam maturity level, we can still = change the intended status later without having to re-do the IETF last = call. >=20 > Also, as no normative language is used, please remove the Requirements = Language disclaimer and reference to RFC2119 with the next update. >=20 > Find below some minor editorial nits that you may want to address now = or in a later version! >=20 > Thanks! > Mirja >=20 >=20 > ------ > Some editorial nits: >=20 > 1) Based on the RFC Style Guide RFC7322, you cannot use reference in = the abstract. It fine to have an RFC named there, just remove the = reference. Further I actually think the last sentence is probably not = needed at all in the abstract. >=20 > 2) In Intro: > OLD > "The alternate marking method, as presented until now, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D= > NEW > "The alternate marking method, as described in RFC 8321 [RFC8321], = =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D >=20 > 3) In Intro: > "Note that additional details about the > Alternate Marking methodology are described in the paper > [IEEE-Network-PNPM]=E2=80=9D > Is this sentence really needed? Should the spec in RFC8321 be = complete? > (Note that the dot at the end of the sentence is also missing) >=20 > 4) In Intro: > s/BUM (Broadcast Unknown Unicast Multicast)/BUM (Broadcast, = Unknown-unicast, and Multicast)/ >=20 > 5) sec 8.2.1: > s/if we would perform a delay measurement/If we would perform a delay = measurement/ >=20 > 6) sec 8.2.2: > s/that don't match/that do not match/ >=20 > 9) sec 9 > s/flexibility to PM/flexibility to Performance Management (PM)/ From nobody Fri Feb 21 12:45:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A1512007A; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:44:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.118.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: CC: ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark@ietf.org, Tal Mizrahi , tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com, ietf@kuehlewind.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: last-call@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <158231789638.28993.3017279993777459800.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:44:56 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Last Call: (Multipoint Alternate Marking method for passive and hybrid performance monitoring) to Experimental RFC X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 20:44:57 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the IP Performance Measurement WG (ippm) to consider the following document: - 'Multipoint Alternate Marking method for passive and hybrid performance monitoring' as Experimental RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2020-03-06. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract The Alternate Marking method, as presented in RFC 8321 [RFC8321], can be applied only to point-to-point flows because it assumes that all the packets of the flow measured on one node are measured again by a single second node. This document aims to generalize and expand this methodology to measure any kind of unicast flows, whose packets can follow several different paths in the network, in wider terms a multipoint-to-multipoint network. For this reason the technique here described is called Multipoint Alternate Marking. Some definitions here introduced extend the scope of RFC 5644 [RFC5644] in the context of alternate marking schema. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark/ballot/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4010/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3035/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3110/ From nobody Mon Feb 24 08:37:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 930423A1014; Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:37:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.118.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <158256225153.5232.13381825373898978379@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:37:31 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-06.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 16:37:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Multipoint Alternate Marking method for passive and hybrid performance monitoring Authors : Giuseppe Fioccola Mauro Cociglio Amedeo Sapio Riccardo Sisto Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-06.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2020-02-24 Abstract: The Alternate Marking method, as presented in RFC 8321, can be applied only to point-to-point flows because it assumes that all the packets of the flow measured on one node are measured again by a single second node. This document aims to generalize and expand this methodology to measure any kind of unicast flows, whose packets can follow several different paths in the network, in wider terms a multipoint-to-multipoint network. For this reason the technique here described is called Multipoint Alternate Marking. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Feb 24 08:40:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09A2C3A0E75; Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:40:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07TucDQMYP9P; Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:39:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DB813A0874; Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:39:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id DA9918CB92D53C0C0623; Mon, 24 Feb 2020 16:39:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fraeml719-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.15) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 24 Feb 2020 16:39:56 +0000 Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) by fraeml719-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 24 Feb 2020 17:39:56 +0100 Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) by fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Mon, 24 Feb 2020 17:39:56 +0100 From: Giuseppe Fioccola To: Mirja Kuehlewind CC: draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark.all , IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: AD review of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05 Thread-Index: AQHV6M47E18Lh4EwHESOUCSpGflrU6gmFVLK///yWQCABIhi4A== Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 16:39:56 +0000 Message-ID: <19dffa2be4804642bcad3607557dc830@huawei.com> References: <930239D0-701D-43AD-994E-233271EABD4D@kuehlewind.net> <3d50c2e8249a4a19885c159517d706b7@huawei.com> <64EA6BF3-7368-457F-BA61-D9545A1FA7E9@kuehlewind.net> In-Reply-To: <64EA6BF3-7368-457F-BA61-D9545A1FA7E9@kuehlewind.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.204.62.186] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 16:40:01 -0000 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participants, I'm solliciting interest in a new network monitoring metric which allows to= detect and locate congested interfaces. Important properties are * Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation r= equired per monitored connection * Adds detection and location of congested interfaces as compared to IC= MP ping (otherwise measured metrics are compatible with ICMP ping) * Requires Segment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding laye= r, no other interaction with passed routers - in opposite to ICMP ping) * Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver or= separate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both options) I'd be happy to present the draft in Vancouver. If there's community intere= st. Please read and comment. You'll find slides at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-draft= -geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-00 Draft url: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ Regards, Ruediger --_000_FRXPR01MB03926E7F0A28B837D69C3C819CEA0FRXPR01MB0392DEUP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participant= s,

 

I’m solliciting interest in a new network moni= toring metric which allows to detect and locate congested interfaces. Impor= tant properties are

  • Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation r= equired per monitored connection
  • Adds detection and lo= cation of congested interfaces as compared to ICMP ping (otherwise measured= metrics are compatible with ICMP ping)
  • Requires Segme= nt Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding layer, no other interact= ion with passed routers – in opposite to ICMP ping)
    • Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver = or separate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both options)

 

I’d be happy to present the draft in Vancouver= . If there’s community interest. Please read and comment.<= /p>

 

You’ll find slides at  

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/1= 05/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-00<= /span>

 

Draft url:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ge= ib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/

 

Regards,

 

Ruediger

--_000_FRXPR01MB03926E7F0A28B837D69C3C819CEA0FRXPR01MB0392DEUP_-- From nobody Wed Feb 26 01:52:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5DBC3A11C4 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 01:52:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4UHiLYHozCuo for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 01:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x329.google.com (mail-ot1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::329]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DB443A11C6 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 01:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x329.google.com with SMTP id g64so2339169otb.13 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 01:52:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=q7E/ILJrvg3MpqdHGUVB7zqM3/GizY13YmnvHK0Nss4=; b=Y4Ll+PcU2GudZOrtd4noXWX9YybyG2IWkA4JBtMpTBt3+pt2CZ7jmOLRrNFnXQM1Eq SP1qMfXIxDoZQQKMmcaCkME+l6JZIUwXyU7PN/Tue0ThbWdb2Tey2jL1bKP0SAIOMp/1 +S//H21pttVjspKAJ9X0qt7itqhp7G8npEW5tZ7xc5fCHDS5RSlMkUii3zl9t5tQ2u2s uMWt1KydaKDHTqoV9W8Agkyu+mdCFYn6fMfiD/PhDHy7RtMlA2NgYVlGVBz0drxrhBAk yRqmfFBSvHk4CXZXxRW4mHjAD7qdFCbpGYLTxD6GkdBwwhfXVmOqmL+ixxqc/7+B1oQY b2Xw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=q7E/ILJrvg3MpqdHGUVB7zqM3/GizY13YmnvHK0Nss4=; b=RTnSjNhrgYAv9s9jNXH4TNMh25BhFxL/Z3qp9BAiL29ePro+n766qrtLQZG1/tbiX1 uPEHCshyhJdC9MvwsJW0p/9XdhrBhGZxJaaBso2Ujp0JcSkP2QDAECEiMZIOz7H2EkjE mPVhx02/+RGekRpB2FexzV4O85MEFkhwOWPImXVDuj9m0n8pm/MTDB9Kq2757jcUDsEi CDPV5IjzovOMKTtKqkAv60xlhJQuzKUeu9NEVMl+RQv00ZsvyKg5RVYnQv28AGyUWKT5 XAhoFvf3xefAxXX1qSc8GtG1MO8dOxLNKviC30eoO/9lbbQSOlCujd/QRl4nF/d4xlyo i56A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAURAWgA/NaGgegRf8pQThrZmdxWD1ChfGUJEZrxI4t+/88q7p/W NxHLRv6BcYvzN35Z0lR+XTAfKbyOZf+Xnhja8+EewQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyNhKdpmHqr7jYcOT1bVpTTcwDl7XhwvgTw9eyk3apiarY0yNM/PkIboDsI4TcLPte8LYgXfIygjAvungzQiHs= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6a4f:: with SMTP id h15mr2283685otn.86.1582710769204; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 01:52:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 10:52:39 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de Cc: ippm-chairs@ietf.org, SPRING WG , ippm@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002e4ebd059f779125" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] [spring] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 09:52:54 -0000 --0000000000002e4ebd059f779125 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ruediger, I have read your draft and presentation with interest as I am a big supporter and in some lab trials of end to end network path probing. Few comments, observations, questions: You are essentially measuring and comparing delay across N paths traversing known network topology (I love "network tomography" name !) * First question - this will likely run on RE/RP and in some platforms path between LC and RE/RP is completely deterministic and can take 10s or 100s of ms locally in the router. So right here the proposal to compare anything may not really work - unless the spec mandates that actually timestamping is done in hardware on the receiving LC. Then CPU can process it when it has cycles. * Second question is that congestion usually has a very transient character ... You would need to be super lucky to find any congestion in normal network using test probes of any sort. If you have interfaces always congested then just the queue depth time delta may not be visible in end to end measurements. * Third - why not simply look at the queue counters at each node ? Queue depth, queue history, min, avg, max on a per interface basis offer tons of information readily available. Why would anyone need to inject loops of probe packets in known network to detect this ? And in black box unknown networks this is not going to work as you would not know the network topology in the first place. Likewise link down/up is already reflected in your syslog via BFD and IGP alarms. I really do not think you need end to end protocol to tell you that. + s/nodes L100 and L200 one one/nodes L100 and L200 on one/ :) Many thx, R. On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:55 AM wrote: > Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participants, > > > > I=E2=80=99m solliciting interest in a new network monitoring metric which= allows > to detect and locate congested interfaces. Important properties are > > - Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation > required per monitored connection > - Adds detection and location of congested interfaces as compared to > ICMP ping (otherwise measured metrics are compatible with ICMP ping) > - Requires Segment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding > layer, no other interaction with passed routers =E2=80=93 in opposite = to ICMP ping) > - Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver > or separate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both optio= ns) > > > > I=E2=80=99d be happy to present the draft in Vancouver.. If there=E2=80= =99s community > interest. Please read and comment. > > > > You=E2=80=99ll find slides at > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-dra= ft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-00 > > > > Draft url: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ > > > > Regards, > > > > Ruediger > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000002e4ebd059f779125 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ruediger,

I have read your draft=C2= =A0and presentation with interest as I am a big=C2=A0supporter and in some = lab trials=C2=A0 of end to end network path probing.=C2=A0

Few comments, observations, questions:=C2=A0

<= div>You are essentially measuring and comparing delay across N paths traver= sing known=C2=A0network topology (I love "network tomography" nam= e !)

* First question - this will likely run on RE= /RP and in some platforms path between LC and RE/RP is completely determini= stic=C2=A0and can take 10s or 100s of ms locally in the router. So right he= re the proposal to compare anything may not really work=C2=A0- unless the s= pec mandates that actually timestamping is done in hardware on the receivin= g LC. Then CPU can process it when it has cycles.=C2=A0

* Second question is that congestion usually has a very transient cha= racter ... You would need to be super lucky to find any congestion=C2=A0in = normal network using test probes of any sort. If you have interfaces always= congested then just the queue depth time delta may not be visible in end t= o end measurements.=C2=A0

* Third - why not simply= look at the queue counters at each node ? Queue depth, queue history, min,= avg, max on a per interface basis offer tons of information readily availa= ble. Why would anyone need to inject loops of probe packets in known networ= k to detect this ? And in black box unknown networks this is not going to w= ork as you would not know the network topology in the first place. Likewise= link down/up is already reflected in your syslog via BFD and IGP alarms. I= really do not think you need end to end protocol to tell you that.=C2=A0

+=C2=A0

s/nodes L100 and L200 one one/nodes L100 and= L200 on one/=C2=A0=C2=A0

:)=C2=A0

Many th= x,
R.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:55 AM <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de> wrote:
=

Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participant= s,

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m solliciting interest in a new network mo= nitoring metric which allows to detect and locate congested interfaces. Imp= ortant properties are

  • Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense on= e measurement relation required per monitored connection
    • =
  • Adds detection and location of congested inte= rfaces as compared to ICMP ping (otherwise measured metrics are compatible = with ICMP ping)
  • Requires Se= gment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding layer, no other inter= action with passed routers =E2=80=93 in opposite to ICMP ping)
  • Active measurement (may be deployed usi= ng a single sender&receiver or separate sender and receiver, Segment Ro= uting allows for both options)

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99d be happy to present the draft in Vancouv= er.. If there=E2=80=99s community interest. Please read and comment.=

=C2=A0

You=E2=80=99ll find slides at =C2=A0

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.= ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-draft-geib-ippm-connectiv= ity-monitoring-00

=C2=A0

Draft url:

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Ruediger

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 13:20:01 -0000 --000000000000ff4473059f7a7424 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Two clarifications: [RG1] the measurements pass the routers on forwarding plane. Well if I have 20K CEs and would like to measure this end to end that means it better run on a router ... I can not envision installing 20K new PCs just for this. At min such end point it should run on a well designed CPE as an LXC. [RG1] Up to now, the conditions in Deutsche Telekom=E2=80=99s backbone netw= ork require a careful design of router probing interval and counters to be read. Sure. I actually had in mind telemetry push model where you only get notified to yr monitoring station when applied queue threshold is crossed. Very little mgmt traffic in the network limited to only information which is important. I know some vendors resist to locally (at LC or local RE) apply filtering to telemetry streaming but this is IMHO just sick approach. Thx, R. On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:01 PM wrote: > Hi Robert, > > > > Thanks, my replies in line marked [RG1] > > > > I have read your draft and presentation with interest as I am a > big supporter and in some lab trials of end to end network path probing. > > > > Few comments, observations, questions: > > > > You are essentially measuring and comparing delay across N paths > traversing known network topology (I love "network tomography" name !) > > > > [RG1] it=E2=80=99s telemetry with a constrained set up, but the term does= n=E2=80=99t > appear in the draft yet=E2=80=A6that can be changed. > > > > ------ > > * First question - this will likely run on RE/RP and in some platforms > path between LC and RE/RP is completely deterministic and can take 10s or > 100s of ms locally in the router. So right here the proposal to compare > anything may not really work - unless the spec mandates that actually > timestamping is done in hardware on the receiving LC. Then CPU can proces= s > it when it has cycles. > > > > [RG1] the measurements pass the routers on forwarding plane. High-end > routers add variable processing latencies. It=E2=80=99s on a level of dou= ble or > lower triple digit [us] on Deutsche Telekom backbone routers. If a > dedicated sender receiver system is used, timestamping may be optimized f= or > the purpose. > > ------ > > > > * Second question is that congestion usually has a very transient > character ... You would need to be super lucky to find any congestion in > normal network using test probes of any sort. If you have interfaces alwa= ys > congested then just the queue depth time delta may not be visible in end = to > end measurements. > > > > [RG1] The probing frequency depends on the characteristics of congestion > the operator wants to be aware of. Unplanned events may cause changes in > measurement delays lasting for minutes or longer (congestion or hardware > issues). The duration of a reliably detectable =E2=80=9Cevent=E2=80=9D co= rrespond to the > measurement packet distance (I don=E2=80=99t intend to replace hello-exch= anges or > BFD by the metric). > > ------ > > > > * Third - why not simply look at the queue counters at each node ? Queue > depth, queue history, min, avg, max on a per interface basis offer tons o= f > information readily available. Why would anyone need to inject loops of > probe packets in known network to detect this ? And in black box unknown > networks this is not going to work as you would not know the network > topology in the first place. Likewise link down/up is already reflected i= n > your syslog via BFD and IGP alarms. I really do not think you need end to > end protocol to tell you that. > > > > [RG1] Up to now, the conditions in Deutsche Telekom=E2=80=99s backbone ne= twork > require a careful design of router probing interval and counters to be > read. The proposed metric allows to capture persistent issues impacting > forwarding. It points out, where these likely occur. An operator may then > have a closer look at an interface/router to analyse what=E2=80=99s going= on, using > the full arsenal of accessible information and tools. As unusual events > happen rarely, it may still be a fair question for which purpose linecard= - > and central processing cycles of routers are consumed. > > ------- > > + Thanks for catching the nit below.. > > > > Regards, Ruediger > > > > s/nodes L100 and L200 one one/nodes L100 and L200 on one/ > > > > :) > > > > Many thx, > > R. > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:55 AM wrote: > > Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participants, > > > > I=E2=80=99m solliciting interest in a new network monitoring metric which= allows > to detect and locate congested interfaces. Important properties are > > - Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation > required per monitored connection > - Adds detection and location of congested interfaces as compared to > ICMP ping (otherwise measured metrics are compatible with ICMP ping) > - Requires Segment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding > layer, no other interaction with passed routers =E2=80=93 in opposite = to ICMP ping) > - Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver > or separate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both optio= ns) > > > > I=E2=80=99d be happy to present the draft in Vancouver.. If there=E2=80= =99s community > interest. Please read and comment. > > > > You=E2=80=99ll find slides at > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-dra= ft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-00 > > > > Draft url: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ > > > > Regards, > > > > Ruediger > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > --000000000000ff4473059f7a7424 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Two clarifications:=C2=A0

[RG1] the measurements pass the routers on forwarding plane= .=C2=A0

Well if I have 20K CEs and would like to m= easure this end to end that means it better run on a router ... I can not e= nvision installing 20K new PCs just for this. At min such end point it shou= ld run on a well designed CPE as an LXC.=C2=A0=C2=A0

[RG1] Up to now, the conditions in Deutsche Telekom=E2=80=99s backbo= ne network require a careful design of router probing interval and counters= to be read.=C2=A0

Sure. I actually had in mind te= lemetry push model where you only get notified to yr monitoring station whe= n applied queue threshold=C2=A0is crossed. Very little mgmt traffic in the = network limited to only information which is important.=C2=A0
I know some vendors resist to locally (at LC or local RE) apply= filtering to telemetry streaming but this is IMHO just sick approach.=C2= =A0

Thx,
R.

=C2=A0


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:01 PM= <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de> wrote:

Hi Robert,

=C2=A0=

Thanks, my replies in line marked [RG1]

=C2=A0

I have read your draft=C2=A0and presentation with in= terest as I am a big=C2=A0supporter and in some lab trials=C2=A0 of end to = end network path probing.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Few comments, observations, questions:=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0

You are essentially measuring and comparing delay ac= ross N paths traversing known=C2=A0network topology (I love "network t= omography" name !)

=C2=A0

[RG1] it=E2=80=99s telemetry with a constrained set = up, but the term doesn=E2=80=99t appear in the draft yet=E2=80=A6that can b= e changed.

=C2=A0

------

* First question - this will likely run on RE/RP and= in some platforms path between LC and RE/RP is completely deterministic=C2= =A0and can take 10s or 100s of ms locally in the router. So right here the = proposal to compare anything may not really work=C2=A0- unless the spec mandates that actually timestamping is done in= hardware on the receiving LC. Then CPU can process it when it has cycles.= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

[RG1] the measurements pass the routers on forwardin= g plane. High-end routers add variable processing latencies. It=E2=80=99s o= n a level of double or lower triple digit [us] on Deutsche Telekom backbone= routers. If a dedicated sender receiver system is used, timestamping may be optimized for the purpose.

------

=C2=A0

* Second question is that congestion usually has a v= ery transient character ... You would need to be super lucky to find any co= ngestion=C2=A0in normal network using test probes of any sort. If you have = interfaces always congested then just the queue depth time delta may not be visible in end to end measurements.

=C2=A0

[RG1] The probing frequency depends on the character= istics of congestion the operator wants to be aware of. Unplanned events ma= y cause changes in measurement delays lasting for minutes or longer (conges= tion or hardware issues). The duration of a reliably detectable =E2=80=9Cevent=E2=80=9D correspond to the measure= ment packet distance (I don=E2=80=99t intend to replace hello-exchanges or = BFD by the metric).

------=C2=A0

=C2=A0

* Third - why not simply look at the queue counters = at each node ? Queue depth, queue history, min, avg, max on a per interface= basis offer tons of information readily available. Why would anyone need t= o inject loops of probe packets in known network to detect this ? And in black box unknown networks this is n= ot going to work as you would not know the network topology in the first pl= ace. Likewise link down/up is already reflected in your syslog via BFD and = IGP alarms. I really do not think you need end to end protocol to tell you that.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[RG1] Up to now, the conditions in Deutsche Telekom= =E2=80=99s backbone network require a careful design of router probing inte= rval and counters to be read. The proposed metric allows to capture persist= ent issues impacting forwarding. It points out, where these likely occur. An operator may then have a closer look at = an interface/router to analyse what=E2=80=99s going on, using the full arse= nal of accessible information and tools. As unusual events happen rarely, i= t may still be a fair question for which purpose linecard- and central processing cycles of routers are consumed. <= u>

-------

+=C2=A0Thanks for catching the nit below..=

=C2=A0

Regards, Ruediger

=C2=A0

s/nodes L100 and L= 200 one one/nodes L100 and L200 on one/=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

:)=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Many thx,

R.

=C2=A0

Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participant= s,

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m solliciting interest in a new network mo= nitoring metric which allows to detect and locate congested interfaces. Imp= ortant properties are

  • Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation require= d per monitored connection
  • Adds detection and location of congested interfaces as compared to ICMP pin= g (otherwise measured metrics are compatible with ICMP ping)<= /li>
  • Requires Segment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding layer, no = other interaction with passed routers =E2=80=93 in opposite to ICMP ping)
  • Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver or s= eparate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both options)

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99d be happy to present the draft in Vancouv= er.. If there=E2=80=99s community interest. Please read and comment.=

=C2=A0

You=E2=80=99ll find slides at =C2=A0

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.= ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-draft-geib-ippm-connectiv= ity-monitoring-00

=C2=A0

Draft url:

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Ruediger

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

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b=SODpBPeoCFXsuhWAeR973eCkYuCKJ5UrUcU1USkyR9qkPyivfAuRQCBYRm2Oqd7407 IisDIW0fNtuPFMVgZzSaYUwR7ax+pSfEMu7v5/8NvUiSkg/7WTEEaL8U+crrAd4UT1l9 Dl5EKfUQkhJMn9LSlcGvaCMDwt6Z/+9d7Y+15KoPy1GWo02UWOCk1sigvAp5OtPG7Vr7 EnXZ0jtpkWTpcBiYgl/BRRLjpQXI4rMfOUZXddGeOwgaLgwARg6XM3/CHAHIj/DxsZt9 2f/oC+qT03yA6iJKC9xu2qt4B+AXfis4Moa5id0dfm+iZ36AhN2qyPPuNMTWNGUGMhpO F+Aw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVeZ3Y1k6VoIev1ANYjiwoelhF73U0YgNP4HuZjS65Pl0ZNzdUO D+9WmhbTW9VN6C9GEfCXAK/qppu4wCpP47EG/HiqQg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyJOUlsQhXJmd2mn5R/YGcwQKfLCunHKck+R/kOfD5AjxYnT9XLMjsIuKcMb7wsODw1kzC6TiV3NlQ3MO+7YDE= X-Received: by 2002:a54:4510:: with SMTP id l16mr2588571oil.70.1582796307203; Thu, 27 Feb 2020 01:38:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:38:17 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de Cc: ippm-chairs@ietf.org, SPRING WG , ippm@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a491fe059f8b7b47" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] [spring] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 09:38:30 -0000 --000000000000a491fe059f8b7b47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, As I mentioned in my first mail I am a big supporter of end to end path measurement - mainly have been focusing on hop by hop timestamping approach. So my comments were not really to discourage in any way end to end path probing - it is extremely useful. They were just to see your point of view on alternative options just for the specific goal here - congestion detection. Will be watching how your proposal evolves with interest ! Cheers, R. On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:17 AM wrote: > Hi Robert, > > > > regarding scalability, I hope the difference between our positions is jus= t > whether it=E2=80=99s a router or a dedicated CPE. I don=E2=80=99t promote= deploying 20k PCs > (I hope to promote a metric to replace them). I prefer the dedicated CPE, > but routers do as well. > > > > The telemetry threshold might be an option too, if congestion is to be > detected. In September last year, we had to replace a line card at a > production router, whose ingress port hardware was corrupted. There were = no > drops, just random delay variations, which showed in our performance > measurement system. I wonder whether problems like that can be detected b= y > evaluating telemetry. > > Further, telemetry needs to work reliable if the router hardware is busy > dealing with heavy loads (i.e., telemetry must be sufficiently privileged= ). > External measurements on forwarding layer don=E2=80=99t rely on router in= ternal > processing resources. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ruediger > > > > > > *Von:* Robert Raszuk > *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2020 14:19 > *An:* Geib, R=C3=BCdiger > *Cc:* ippm-chairs@ietf.org; SPRING WG ; ippm@ietf.org > *Betreff:* Re: [spring] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion > > > > Hi, > > > > Two clarifications: > > > > [RG1] the measurements pass the routers on forwarding plane. > > > > Well if I have 20K CEs and would like to measure this end to end that > means it better run on a router ... I can not envision installing 20K new > PCs just for this. At min such end point it should run on a well designed > CPE as an LXC. > > > > [RG1] Up to now, the conditions in Deutsche Telekom=E2=80=99s backbone ne= twork > require a careful design of router probing interval and counters to be > read. > > > > Sure. I actually had in mind telemetry push model where you only get > notified to yr monitoring station when applied queue threshold is crossed= . > Very little mgmt traffic in the network limited to only information which > is important. > > > > I know some vendors resist to locally (at LC or local RE) apply filtering > to telemetry streaming but this is IMHO just sick approach. > > > > Thx, > > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:01 PM wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > > > Thanks, my replies in line marked [RG1] > > > > I have read your draft and presentation with interest as I am a > big supporter and in some lab trials of end to end network path probing. > > > > Few comments, observations, questions: > > > > You are essentially measuring and comparing delay across N paths > traversing known network topology (I love "network tomography" name !) > > > > [RG1] it=E2=80=99s telemetry with a constrained set up, but the term does= n=E2=80=99t > appear in the draft yet=E2=80=A6that can be changed. > > > > ------ > > * First question - this will likely run on RE/RP and in some platforms > path between LC and RE/RP is completely deterministic and can take 10s or > 100s of ms locally in the router. So right here the proposal to compare > anything may not really work - unless the spec mandates that actually > timestamping is done in hardware on the receiving LC. Then CPU can proces= s > it when it has cycles. > > > > [RG1] the measurements pass the routers on forwarding plane. High-end > routers add variable processing latencies. It=E2=80=99s on a level of dou= ble or > lower triple digit [us] on Deutsche Telekom backbone routers. If a > dedicated sender receiver system is used, timestamping may be optimized f= or > the purpose. > > ------ > > > > * Second question is that congestion usually has a very transient > character ... You would need to be super lucky to find any congestion in > normal network using test probes of any sort. If you have interfaces alwa= ys > congested then just the queue depth time delta may not be visible in end = to > end measurements. > > > > [RG1] The probing frequency depends on the characteristics of congestion > the operator wants to be aware of. Unplanned events may cause changes in > measurement delays lasting for minutes or longer (congestion or hardware > issues). The duration of a reliably detectable =E2=80=9Cevent=E2=80=9D co= rrespond to the > measurement packet distance (I don=E2=80=99t intend to replace hello-exch= anges or > BFD by the metric). > > ------ > > > > * Third - why not simply look at the queue counters at each node ? Queue > depth, queue history, min, avg, max on a per interface basis offer tons o= f > information readily available. Why would anyone need to inject loops of > probe packets in known network to detect this ? And in black box unknown > networks this is not going to work as you would not know the network > topology in the first place. Likewise link down/up is already reflected i= n > your syslog via BFD and IGP alarms. I really do not think you need end to > end protocol to tell you that. > > > > [RG1] Up to now, the conditions in Deutsche Telekom=E2=80=99s backbone ne= twork > require a careful design of router probing interval and counters to be > read. The proposed metric allows to capture persistent issues impacting > forwarding. It points out, where these likely occur. An operator may then > have a closer look at an interface/router to analyse what=E2=80=99s going= on, using > the full arsenal of accessible information and tools. As unusual events > happen rarely, it may still be a fair question for which purpose linecard= - > and central processing cycles of routers are consumed. > > ------- > > + Thanks for catching the nit below.. > > > > Regards, Ruediger > > > > s/nodes L100 and L200 one one/nodes L100 and L200 on one/ > > > > :) > > > > Many thx, > > R. > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:55 AM wrote: > > Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participants, > > > > I=E2=80=99m solliciting interest in a new network monitoring metric which= allows > to detect and locate congested interfaces. Important properties are > > - Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation > required per monitored connection > - Adds detection and location of congested interfaces as compared to > ICMP ping (otherwise measured metrics are compatible with ICMP ping) > - Requires Segment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding > layer, no other interaction with passed routers =E2=80=93 in opposite = to ICMP ping) > - Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver > or separate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both optio= ns) > > > > I=E2=80=99d be happy to present the draft in Vancouver.. If there=E2=80= =99s community > interest. Please read and comment. > > > > You=E2=80=99ll find slides at > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-dra= ft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-00 > > > > Draft url: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ > > > > Regards, > > > > Ruediger > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > --000000000000a491fe059f8b7b47 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

As I mentioned in my first mail I a= m a big supporter=C2=A0of end to end path measurement - mainly have been fo= cusing on hop by hop timestamping approach.=C2=A0

= So my comments were not really to discourage in any way end to end path pro= bing - it is extremely useful. They were just to see your point of view on = alternative options just for the specific goal here - congestion detection.= =C2=A0

Will be watching how your proposal evolves = with interest !

Cheers,
R.

On Thu, Feb 27,= 2020 at 9:17 AM <Ruediger.G= eib@telekom.de> wrote:

Hi Robert,

=C2=A0

regarding scalability, I hope the difference between= our positions is just whether it=E2=80=99s a router or a dedicated CPE. I = don=E2=80=99t promote deploying 20k PCs (I hope to promote a metric to repl= ace them). I prefer the dedicated CPE, but routers do as well.

=C2=A0

The telemetry threshold might be an option too, if c= ongestion is to be detected. In September last year, we had to replace a li= ne card at a production router, whose ingress port hardware was corrupted. = There were no drops, just random delay variations, which showed in our performance measurement system. I wonder w= hether problems like that can be detected by evaluating telemetry.

Further, telemetry needs to work reliable if the rou= ter hardware is busy dealing with heavy loads (i.e., telemetry must be suff= iciently privileged). External measurements on forwarding layer don=E2=80= =99t rely on router internal processing resources.

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Ruediger

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Von: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2020 14:19
An: Geib, R=C3=BCdiger <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de>
Cc: ippm-c= hairs@ietf.org; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; ippm@ietf.org
Betreff: Re: [spring] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congest= ion

=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

Two clarifications:=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[RG1] the measurements pass the routers on forwardin= g plane.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Well if I have 20K CEs and would like to measure thi= s end to end that means it better run on a router ... I can not envision in= stalling 20K new PCs just for this. At min such end point it should run on = a well designed CPE as an LXC.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[RG1] Up to now, the conditions in Deutsche Telekom= =E2=80=99s backbone network require a careful design of router probing inte= rval and counters to be read.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Sure. I actually had in mind telemetry push model wh= ere you only get notified to yr monitoring station when applied queue thres= hold=C2=A0is crossed. Very little mgmt traffic in the network limited to on= ly information which is important.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I know some vendors resist to locally (at LC or loca= l RE) apply filtering to telemetry streaming but this is IMHO just sick app= roach.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thx,

R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:01 PM <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de= > wrote:

Hi Robert,

=C2=A0=

Thanks, my replies in line marked [RG1]

=C2=A0

I have read your draft=C2=A0and presentation with in= terest as I am a big=C2=A0supporter and in some lab trials=C2=A0 of end to = end network path probing.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Few comments, observations, questions:=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0

You are essentially measuring and comparing delay ac= ross N paths traversing known=C2=A0network topology (I love "network t= omography" name !)

=C2=A0

[RG1] it=E2=80=99s telemetry with a constrained set = up, but the term doesn=E2=80=99t appear in the draft yet=E2=80=A6that can b= e changed.

=C2=A0

------

* First question - this will likely run on RE/RP and= in some platforms path between LC and RE/RP is completely deterministic=C2= =A0and can take 10s or 100s of ms locally in the router. So right here the proposal to compare anything may not really work=C2=A0- = unless the spec mandates that actually timestamping is done in hardware on = the receiving LC. Then CPU can process it when it has cycles.=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0

[RG1] the measurements pass the routers on forwardin= g plane. High-end routers add variable processing latencies. It=E2=80=99s o= n a level of double or lower triple digit [us] on Deutsche Telekom backbone routers. If a dedicated sender receiver system is used, t= imestamping may be optimized for the purpose.

------

=C2=A0

* Second question is that congestion usually has a v= ery transient character ... You would need to be super lucky to find any co= ngestion=C2=A0in normal network using test probes of any sort. If you have interfaces always congested then just the queue depth ti= me delta may not be visible in end to end measurements.

=C2=A0

[RG1] The probing frequency depends on the character= istics of congestion the operator wants to be aware of. Unplanned events ma= y cause changes in measurement delays lasting for minutes or longer (congestion or hardware issues). The duration of a relia= bly detectable =E2=80=9Cevent=E2=80=9D correspond to the measurement packet= distance (I don=E2=80=99t intend to replace hello-exchanges or BFD by the = metric).

------=C2=A0

=C2=A0

* Third - why not simply look at the queue counters = at each node ? Queue depth, queue history, min, avg, max on a per interface= basis offer tons of information readily available. Why would anyone need to inject loops of probe packets in known network to= detect this ? And in black box unknown networks this is not going to work = as you would not know the network topology in the first place. Likewise lin= k down/up is already reflected in your syslog via BFD and IGP alarms. I really do not think you need end to = end protocol to tell you that.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[RG1] Up to now, the conditions in Deutsche Telekom= =E2=80=99s backbone network require a careful design of router probing inte= rval and counters to be read. The proposed metric allows to capture persistent issues impacting forwarding. It points out, where these= likely occur. An operator may then have a closer look at an interface/rout= er to analyse what=E2=80=99s going on, using the full arsenal of accessible= information and tools. As unusual events happen rarely, it may still be a fair question for which purpose linecard-= and central processing cycles of routers are consumed.

-------

+=C2=A0Thanks for catching the nit below..=

=C2=A0

Regards, Ruediger

=C2=A0

s/nodes L100 and L= 200 one one/nodes L100 and L200 on one/=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

:)=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Many thx,

R.

=C2=A0

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:55 AM <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de&= gt; wrote:

Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participant= s,

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m solliciting interest in a new network mo= nitoring metric which allows to detect and locate congested interfaces. Imp= ortant properties are

  • Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation require= d per monitored connection
  • Adds detection and location of congested interfaces as compared to ICMP pin= g (otherwise measured metrics are compatible with ICMP ping)<= /li>
  • Requires Segment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding layer, no = other interaction with passed routers =E2=80=93 in opposite to ICMP ping)
  • Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver or s= eparate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both options)

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99d be happy to present the draft in Vancouv= er.. If there=E2=80=99s community interest. Please read and comment.=

=C2=A0

You=E2=80=99ll find slides at =C2=A0

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.= ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-draft-geib-ippm-connectiv= ity-monitoring-00

=C2=A0

Draft url:

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Ruediger

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

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2020 19:43:48 +0000 From: Haoyu Song To: "Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de" , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion Thread-Index: AdXsd9MS3uEh95p5QyK2WBDxA74xnQBK4HLQ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 19:43:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=haoyu.song@futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [12.111.81.95] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 85191fe6-8baf-4161-4900-08d7bbbd5d19 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR13MB2407: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 03264AEA72 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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85191fe6-8baf-4161-4900-08d7bbbd5d19 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Feb 2020 19:43:48.0016 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: uulydMhbZOZabRYe3PizqKGYLyJlvQo5Lvatr9pDxcYjAxqxJycq7kP/9tojX+3kifEffMgXS6txs8mPG3kOgA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR13MB2407 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 19:43:57 -0000 --_000_BYAPR13MB2485E450C9A230E4A54104769AEB0BYAPR13MB2485namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ruediger, I like the general idea that using pre-determined paths in SR to collect pe= rformance metrics. I think this approach provides some unique benefits comp= ared with the other approaches. It is also coincident with some of related = research work I'm doing. Here are some thoughts I have. 1. I think IOAM could be used as the standard approach for such probing = packets. It can collect the performance metrics mentioned in the draft and = does more. 2. An interesting problem raised by the draft but not fully addressed is= the method to plan the optimal paths. There is a work called INT-PATH (htt= ps://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8737529) which applies Eulerian Path algo= rithm to find the minimum set of paths with network-wide coverage. However,= the problem here seems different: you need path coverage redundancy. My qu= estion is: do we really need the redundancy to achieve the measurement goal= ? If so, what's the best planning algorithm should be? In a real and large = scale network, we have constraint on where the probing device(s) can be pla= ced, and we usually want to monitoring the entire network, so an efficient = algorithm is necessary. Best regards, Haoyu From: ippm On Behalf Of Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:55 PM To: ippm-chairs@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participants, I'm solliciting interest in a new network monitoring metric which allows to= detect and locate congested interfaces. Important properties are * Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation r= equired per monitored connection * Adds detection and location of congested interfaces as compared to IC= MP ping (otherwise measured metrics are compatible with ICMP ping) * Requires Segment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding laye= r, no other interaction with passed routers - in opposite to ICMP ping) * Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver or= separate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both options) I'd be happy to present the draft in Vancouver.. If there's community inter= est. Please read and comment. You'll find slides at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-draft= -geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-00 Draft url: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ Regards, Ruediger --_000_BYAPR13MB2485E450C9A230E4A54104769AEB0BYAPR13MB2485namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ruediger,

 

I like the general idea that using pre-determined pa= ths in SR to collect performance metrics. I think this approach provides so= me unique benefits compared with the other approaches. It is also coinciden= t with some of related research work I’m doing.

Here are some thoughts I have.

  1. I think IOAM could be used as the standard approach for such probing = packets. It can collect the performance metrics mentioned in the draft and = does more.
  2. An interesting problem raised by the draft but not fu= lly addressed is the method to plan the optimal paths. There is a work call= ed INT-PATH (https= ://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8737529) which applies Eulerian Path algorithm to find the minimum set of paths wit= h network-wide coverage. However, the problem here seems different: you nee= d path coverage redundancy. My question is: do we really need the redundanc= y to achieve the measurement goal? If so, what’s the best planning algorithm should be? In a real and l= arge scale network, we have constraint on where the probing device(s) can b= e placed, and we usually want to monitoring the entire network, so an effic= ient algorithm is necessary.       

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> O= n Behalf Of Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:55 PM
To: ippm-chairs@ietf.org
Cc: spring@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
Subject: [ippm] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion

 

Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participant= s,

 

I’m solliciting interest in a new network moni= toring metric which allows to detect and locate congested interfaces. Impor= tant properties are

  • Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation r= equired per monitored connection
  • Adds detection and lo= cation of congested interfaces as compared to ICMP ping (otherwise measured= metrics are compatible with ICMP ping)
  • Requires Segme= nt Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding layer, no other interact= ion with passed routers – in opposite to ICMP ping)
    • Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver = or separate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both options)

 

I’d be happy to present the draft in Vancouver= .. If there’s community interest. Please read and comment.=

 

You’ll find slides at  

 

https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-draft-geib-i= ppm-connectivity-monitoring-00

 

Draft url:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm= -connectivity-monitoring/

 

Regards,

 

Ruediger

--_000_BYAPR13MB2485E450C9A230E4A54104769AEB0BYAPR13MB2485namp_-- From nobody Thu Feb 27 11:50:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22B333A0A7F for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2020 11:50:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WBMY2BquDQXn for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2020 11:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x331.google.com (mail-ot1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4A4A3A0A82 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2020 11:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x331.google.com with SMTP id a36so340653otb.7 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2020 11:50:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LfpNwP4F55hlfRCt0lJ5SZlRKlDlvvvzC2OZ+QRVbOk=; b=JrqFJ+bUHG61OP/MwbVMfHyyeo2OWSvhdT/h+1m7sabzFX8XMMEbEEaHJPm3PpqiDe vqQsM59Z/vxhPGmXwJQ+slwqrukX1Hf/LoHreh/SCWevE8NQN+Y5djpehIDGdczOrMr+ 5iBT1CEV216MY/1UFWgEwMa1MFKm/o53OSFyBjEnO/IneoI7Cv5ZikmKn/JieaArk4IS vPkQrjU2ii78dbINEBrKU3DbiJMs+mFp7cwjn+nqUr9maNYj/Ty32n6h52M0A9st4I2Q Y4e1j8AHR2UQeKeEr824csktlPR8RMOmQUMdypHNUjgIsyBtqcjgDm/C/wp20CoozecO QfNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LfpNwP4F55hlfRCt0lJ5SZlRKlDlvvvzC2OZ+QRVbOk=; b=FFuF3EgnpY10//cOyGPUoGryrGU62ia6snuu+R3mXc1QDf+csLSsnl+C0UkCLOjKhb bVtmP89XgkYbKSTggxf/BhC4W7AviufeUB7tDxqpu7puTBCryMKc89mDKM6s5a6nVjwK MU7pXhYxQO0SvVeJQ9k2m+mrfBGBHhTFFVabKWHgbxXp1jxBOh6AwucUL5LPrtFLj5lQ 8iTkYWzpBrA60MkrBYi1wuwQ0dWF4MVLjmFhuMruxspk8g7CXZ6A0Y+mXlVAGlJvBmBP ildK5MVFewGb6eWdQGB97Nkq6mikRr/44L4+DvWvnbzNsVw2rtYpdzgOKJpVqedIKjWP Y77w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVpM6ccmGJEf+Wbf5pDZUpcaeUBVNco4PHuYCgBHbWpsSoj+mBS Q5Pv3pWaksQZ0OJbUqtn2g6wp3NgiRMz2xTQkiMWrKmJ+YM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxjNx4v2VjeP2cZ0XK1+zzQssEuwIPRKGNFa/R6U3bt6XLHWzi7LNZbEQMsqHGKVYBGBER1gewx6wKKqC/1Wuo= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7083:: with SMTP id l3mr394105otj.193.1582833012012; Thu, 27 Feb 2020 11:50:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 20:50:02 +0100 Message-ID: To: Haoyu Song Cc: "Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de" , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006b887b059f94073e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] [spring] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 19:50:16 -0000 --0000000000006b887b059f94073e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Haoyu, > which applies Eulerian Path algorithm to find the minimum set of paths with network-wide coverage. In practice networks use ECMP. ECMP decision may happen at each hop. Your end to end flows get spread over all ECMP paths. So limiting number of probed paths is inaccurate to the fundamental objective of the exercise. That is infact main challenge with any end to end path probing today ... if you do not cover all possible paths your packets may take between ingress and egress you just do not get full picture of the network. Thx a lot, R. On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 8:44 PM Haoyu Song wrote= : > Hi Ruediger, > > > > I like the general idea that using pre-determined paths in SR to collect > performance metrics. I think this approach provides some unique benefits > compared with the other approaches. It is also coincident with some of > related research work I=E2=80=99m doing. > > Here are some thoughts I have. > > 1. I think IOAM could be used as the standard approach for such > probing packets. It can collect the performance metrics mentioned in t= he > draft and does more. > 2. An interesting problem raised by the draft but not fully addressed > is the method to plan the optimal paths. There is a work called INT-PA= TH ( > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8737529) which applies Eulerian > Path algorithm to find the minimum set of paths with network-wide cove= rage. > However, the problem here seems different: you need path coverage > redundancy. My question is: do we really need the redundancy to achiev= e the > measurement goal? If so, what=E2=80=99s the best planning algorithm sh= ould be? In a > real and large scale network, we have constraint on where the probing > device(s) can be placed, and we usually want to monitoring the entire > network, so an efficient algorithm is necessary. > > > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > > > > *From:* ippm *On Behalf Of * > Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:55 PM > *To:* ippm-chairs@ietf.org > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org > *Subject:* [ippm] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion > > > > Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participants, > > > > I=E2=80=99m solliciting interest in a new network monitoring metric which= allows > to detect and locate congested interfaces. Important properties are > > - Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation > required per monitored connection > - Adds detection and location of congested interfaces as compared to > ICMP ping (otherwise measured metrics are compatible with ICMP ping) > - Requires Segment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding > layer, no other interaction with passed routers =E2=80=93 in opposite = to ICMP ping) > - Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver > or separate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both optio= ns) > > > > I=E2=80=99d be happy to present the draft in Vancouver... If there=E2=80= =99s community > interest. Please read and comment. > > > > You=E2=80=99ll find slides at > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-dra= ft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-00 > > > > > Draft url: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ruediger > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000006b887b059f94073e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Haoyu,

> which applies Eulerian P= ath algorithm to find the minimum set of paths with network-wide coverage.= =C2=A0=C2=A0

In practice networks use ECMP. EC= MP decision may happen at each hop. Your end to end flows get spread over a= ll ECMP paths. So limiting number of probed paths is inaccurate to the fund= amental objective of the exercise.=C2=A0

That is i= nfact main challenge=C2=A0with any end to end path probing today ... if you= do not cover all possible paths your packets may take between ingress and= =C2=A0egress you just do not get full picture of the network.=C2=A0

Thx a lot,
R.


On Thu, Feb 2= 7, 2020 at 8:44 PM Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi Ruediger,

=C2=A0

I like the general idea that using pre-determined pa= ths in SR to collect performance metrics. I think this approach provides so= me unique benefits compared with the other approaches. It is also coinciden= t with some of related research work I=E2=80=99m doing.

Here are some thoughts I have.

  1. I think IOAM could be used as the standard ap= proach for such probing packets. It can collect the performance metrics men= tioned in the draft and does more.
  2. An interesting problem rai= sed by the draft but not fully addressed is the method to plan the optimal = paths. There is a work called INT-PATH (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/documen= t/8737529) which applies Eulerian Path algorithm to find the minimum set of paths wit= h network-wide coverage. However, the problem here seems different: you nee= d path coverage redundancy. My question is: do we really need the redundanc= y to achieve the measurement goal? If so, what=E2=80=99s the best planning algorithm should be? In a real and= large scale network, we have constraint on where the probing device(s) can= be placed, and we usually want to monitoring the entire network, so an eff= icient algorithm is necessary.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Haoyu

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participant= s,

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m solliciting interest in a new network mo= nitoring metric which allows to detect and locate congested interfaces. Imp= ortant properties are

  • Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense on= e measurement relation required per monitored connection
    • =
  • Adds detection and location of congested inte= rfaces as compared to ICMP ping (otherwise measured metrics are compatible = with ICMP ping)
  • Requires Se= gment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding layer, no other inter= action with passed routers =E2=80=93 in opposite to ICMP ping)
  • Active measurement (may be deployed usi= ng a single sender&receiver or separate sender and receiver, Segment Ro= uting allows for both options)

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99d be happy to present the draft in Vancouv= er... If there=E2=80=99s community interest. Please read and comment.

=C2=A0

You=E2=80=99ll find slides at =C2=A0

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-i= ppm-14-draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-00

=C2=A0

Draft url:

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Ruediger

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gnxAOG4rNHO8Ux+gkM4BnRouoVv9UTWSx1mI83AvisY=; b=OMhEkGPLw8jjB3501ztGNDS2fqeDkhBp8ocFOD+H96f4sAQO5YKHCyqx1o0vjfZ589 Q3pvgILrHD5ZXyBOJ8vBzdUT8kpnwcZCsz8avO1OFPZMCpHU1oTJMP1s2cs2V9Np8im9 nsOpxbTylls+xyEg4jepih/BPSfaMdgbFJnic9Urc4rWVsXeYam+lVwuOav7O1r8zkny /0v4VlsBfKYENi+weluXboCAbcbkuZOJcYCclCq6x5krMwC3NrjVjdgy5Qy26o8PWlRr 0Wr22r5wH3ayIAbK+b1QeGH4vD3zfwXMYCUChwN9OB+QPGasuIc369/uJbjrJmKhttGs QQHQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gnxAOG4rNHO8Ux+gkM4BnRouoVv9UTWSx1mI83AvisY=; b=FjrzRkITJr4JPBES33CJH8xQTtboOoehrXzsRb4EFhXqQCH4baWtH/huTc1rZJY2sK Ci0qiuW/2z3e9sPJf9RPZxYLifRfadCRwLPjyNLMRcJ1BHTYbHkaMX0dV9wywPkuXBeQ vAtKEKP+Ui1oFe0tXCeinAuVADHRkMBGmsmT6ZI4wZ/ufxlbxefA5i7qkC9HG9ntee2z W+OaqlF85JXh65mQP9ywuy7pqHMESI9iK1/cVCAsTjyH2wTO+rFn5h5w8dxHrjRCUkkg 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List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 20:18:34 -0000 --000000000000998cca059f946c57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The point is not to assure all egress ports are inspected. The point of any really useful end to end path probing is to find out if combination of ingress+egress queuing on each transit node my packet may traverse are not congested. Looking at Eulerian path algorithm I do not see such guarantees. Best, R. PS. Path probing is A1 to B1. It is not A1 to B1, B2 .. Bn. where An are the ingress ports to the network and Bn are the egress ports. On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:14 PM Haoyu Song wrote= : > Hi Robert, > > > > The Eulerian path algorithm guarantees to visit all the edges of a graph. > In the SR context, we can consider the sub-path between two segments an > edge. > > > > Haoyu > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Thursday, February 27, 2020 11:50 AM > *To:* Haoyu Song > *Cc:* Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de; ippm-chairs@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > ippm@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion > > > > Hi Haoyu, > > > > > which applies Eulerian Path algorithm to find the minimum set of paths > with network-wide coverage. > > > > In practice networks use ECMP. ECMP decision may happen at each hop. Your > end to end flows get spread over all ECMP paths. So limiting number of > probed paths is inaccurate to the fundamental objective of the exercise. > > > > That is infact main challenge with any end to end path probing today ... > if you do not cover all possible paths your packets may take between > ingress and egress you just do not get full picture of the network. > > > > Thx a lot, > > R. > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 8:44 PM Haoyu Song > wrote: > > Hi Ruediger, > > > > I like the general idea that using pre-determined paths in SR to collect > performance metrics. I think this approach provides some unique benefits > compared with the other approaches. It is also coincident with some of > related research work I=E2=80=99m doing. > > Here are some thoughts I have. > > 1. I think IOAM could be used as the standard approach for such > probing packets. It can collect the performance metrics mentioned in t= he > draft and does more. > 2. An interesting problem raised by the draft but not fully addressed > is the method to plan the optimal paths. There is a work called INT-PA= TH ( > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8737529 > ) > which applies Eulerian Path algorithm to find the minimum set of paths= with > network-wide coverage. However, the problem here seems different: you = need > path coverage redundancy. My question is: do we really need the redund= ancy > to achieve the measurement goal? If so, what=E2=80=99s the best planni= ng algorithm > should be? In a real and large scale network, we have constraint on wh= ere > the probing device(s) can be placed, and we usually want to monitoring= the > entire network, so an efficient algorithm is necessary. > > > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > > > > *From:* ippm *On Behalf Of * > Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:55 PM > *To:* ippm-chairs@ietf.org > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org > *Subject:* [ippm] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion > > > > Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participants, > > > > I=E2=80=99m solliciting interest in a new network monitoring metric which= allows > to detect and locate congested interfaces. Important properties are > > - Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation > required per monitored connection > - Adds detection and location of congested interfaces as compared to > ICMP ping (otherwise measured metrics are compatible with ICMP ping) > - Requires Segment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding > layer, no other interaction with passed routers =E2=80=93 in opposite = to ICMP ping) > - Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver > or separate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both optio= ns) > > > > I=E2=80=99d be happy to present the draft in Vancouver... If there=E2=80= =99s community > interest. Please read and comment. > > > > You=E2=80=99ll find slides at > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ippm-14-dra= ft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-00 > > > > > Draft url: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ruediger > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > --000000000000998cca059f946c57 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The point is not to assure all egress ports are inspected.=

The point of any really useful end to end path probing = is to find out if combination of ingress+egress queuing on each transit nod= e my packet may traverse are not congested.=C2=A0

= Looking at=C2=A0Eulerian path algorithm I do not see such guarantees.=C2=A0=

Best,
R.

PS. P= ath probing is A1 to B1. It is not A1 to B1, B2 .. Bn. where An are the ing= ress ports to the network and Bn are the egress ports.=C2=A0
On Thu, F= eb 27, 2020 at 9:14 PM Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi Robert,

=C2=A0

The Eulerian path algorithm guarantees to visit all = the edges of a graph. In the SR context, we can consider the sub-path betwe= en two segments an edge.

=C2=A0

Haoyu

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 11:50 AM
To: Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>
Cc: Ru= ediger.Geib@telekom.de; ippm-chairs@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congest= ion

=C2=A0

Hi Haoyu,

=C2=A0

> which applies Eulerian Path algorithm to find t= he minimum set of paths with network-wide coverage.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

In practice networks use ECMP. ECMP decision may hap= pen at each hop. Your end to end flows get spread over all ECMP paths. So l= imiting number of probed paths is inaccurate to the fundamental objective o= f the exercise.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

That is infact main challenge=C2=A0with any end to e= nd path probing today ... if you do not cover all possible paths your packe= ts may take between ingress and=C2=A0egress you just do not get full pictur= e of the network.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thx a lot,

R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 8:44 PM Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurew= ei.com> wrote:

Hi Ruediger,

=C2=A0

I like the general idea that using pre-determined pa= ths in SR to collect performance metrics. I think this approach provides so= me unique benefits compared with the other approaches. It is also coincident with some of related research work I=E2=80=99m doing= .

Here are some thoughts I have.

  1. I think IOAM could be used as the standard approach for such probing packet= s. It can collect the performance metrics mentioned in the draft and does m= ore.
  2. An interesting problem raised by the draft but not fully addressed is the m= ethod to plan the optimal paths. There is a work called INT-PATH (https://ieeexplore.i= eee.org/document/8737529) which applies Eulerian Path algorithm to find the minimum set of paths wit= h network-wide coverage. However, the problem here seems different: you nee= d path coverage redundancy. My question is: do we really need the redundanc= y to achieve the measurement goal? If so, what=E2=80=99s the best planning algorithm should be? In a real and= large scale network, we have constraint on where the probing device(s) can= be placed, and we usually want to monitoring the entire network, so an eff= icient algorithm is necessary.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Haoyu

=C2=A0

From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:55 PM
To: ippm-c= hairs@ietf.org
Cc: spring@ietf= .org; ippm@ietf.org
Subject: [ippm] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion=

=C2=A0

Dear IPPM (and SPRING) participant= s,

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m solliciting interest in a new network mo= nitoring metric which allows to detect and locate congested interfaces. Imp= ortant properties are

  • Same scalability as ICMP ping in the sense one measurement relation require= d per monitored connection
  • Adds detection and location of congested interfaces as compared to ICMP pin= g (otherwise measured metrics are compatible with ICMP ping)<= /li>
  • Requires Segment Routing (which means, measurement on forwarding layer, no = other interaction with passed routers =E2=80=93 in opposite to ICMP ping)
  • Active measurement (may be deployed using a single sender&receiver or s= eparate sender and receiver, Segment Routing allows for both options)

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99d be happy to present the draft in Vancouv= er... If there=E2=80=99s community interest. Please read and comment.

=C2=A0

You=E2=80=99ll find slides at =C2=A0

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-10= 5-ippm-14-draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-00

=C2=A0

Draft url:

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Ruediger

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

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NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 09:13:39 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Haoyu Song , Robert Raszuk CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion Thread-Index: AQHV7a7Ptdmb5GKzfkCnUw2fl3Hat6gvyZ+g Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 01:13:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.203.162] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BF254EF1NKGEML515MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] [spring] Monitoring metric to detect and locate congestion X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , 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(amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9erzh1ks7SDN; Thu, 27 Feb 2020 17:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 736AE3A0A62; Thu, 27 Feb 2020 17:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id AA91781C5814F6AB0A14; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 01:37:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.63) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 01:37:10 +0000 Received: from lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.63) by lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 01:37:10 +0000 Received: from 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ADFU+vvysGRS9CIhiSyaAlsRgwkg7qx2zfg59zzTXosA5h0GsNsi4JKia1YAKM7m8oA8aWZaXn54mm1sMXa8b4M70yQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:70:: with SMTP id i16mr1395913lfo.93.1582863221819; Thu, 27 Feb 2020 20:13:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158230107443.29037.14133930624764653909.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4ABD2C49-D3AC-4E3E-8059-259371085D91@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4ABD2C49-D3AC-4E3E-8059-259371085D91@cisco.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 20:13:30 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" Cc: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000108d56059f9b103a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 04:13:46 -0000 --000000000000108d56059f9b103a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Rakesh, thank you for your interest in the update to STAMP extensions. Can you elaborate on where you see the conflict between STAMP and your proposal? Is the change you've proposed applicable to STAMP test packet? As far as I understand, STAMP cannot support your proposal and interwork with a system that is complaint with draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm. As for STAP interworking with TWAMP in Unauthenticated mode, SSID doesn't change anything, as TWAMP Session-Sender will zero the field and Session-Reflector will ignore it on receipt. So I don't see conflict here at all. I greatly appreciate your clarification. Regards, Greg On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 7:48 PM Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) wrote: > Hi Greg, > > I noticed that this STAMP TLV draft update is proposing to modify the > STAMP packet format to contain SSID. > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > | Error Estimate | SSID | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > The SRPM draft posted in December had already proposed to use the same > field for control-code. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm-05 > > . . > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > | Error Estimate | Reserved | Control Code | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > . > > > > Looks like there is a conflict in packet format update proposed that need > to sort out. > > > > Thanks, > > Rakesh > > > > > > *From: *ippm on behalf of Greg Mirsky < > gregimirsky@gmail.com> > *Date: *Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM > *To: *IETF IPPM WG > *Subject: *[ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for > draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt > > > > Dear All, > > the new version includes updates to the Followup Telemetry TLV and > introduces the new HMAC TLV. > > We always welcome and greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and > suggestions. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt > To: Henrik Nydell >, Min > Xiao , Adi Masputra , Ernesto > Ruffini , Gregory Mirsky , > Richard Foote > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt > has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv > Revision: 03 > Title: Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional > Extensions > Document date: 2020-02-21 > Group: ippm > Pages: 25 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ > Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv > Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 > > Abstract: > This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active > Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performance > metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base > specification. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > --000000000000108d56059f9b103a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Rakesh,
thank you for your interest in the update t= o STAMP extensions. Can you elaborate on where you see the conflict between= STAMP and your proposal? Is the change you've proposed applicable to S= TAMP test packet? As far as I understand, STAMP cannot support your proposa= l and interwork with a system that is complaint with draft-gandhi-spring-tw= amp-srpm. As for STAP interworking with TWAMP in Unauthenticated mode, SSID= doesn't change anything, as TWAMP Session-Sender will zero the field a= nd Session-Reflector will ignore it on receipt. So I don't see conflict= here at all. I greatly appreciate your clarification.

=
Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 7:48 PM Rakesh Ga= ndhi (rgandhi) <rgandhi@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Greg,

I noticed that this STAMP TLV draft update is propos= ing to modify the STAMP packet format to contain SSID.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Error Estimate=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SSID=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 |
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0

The SRPM draft posted in December had already propos= ed to use the same field for control-code.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-g= andhi-spring-twamp-srpm-05

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Error Estimate=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | Reserv= ed=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Control Code |

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Looks like there is a conflict in packet format upda= te proposed that need to sort out.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Rakesh

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: = ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org>= ; on behalf of Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-st= amp-option-tlv-03.txt

=C2=A0

Dear All,

the new version includes updates to the Followup Tel= emetry TLV and introduces the new HMAC TLV.

We always welcome and greatly appreciate your commen= ts, questions, and suggestions.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.t= xt
To: Henrik Nydell <hnydell@accedian.com>, Min Xiao <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn>, Adi Masputra = <adi@apple.com>= ;, Ernesto Ruffini <eruffini@outsys.org>, Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Richard Foote <footer.foote@nokia.com>=




A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-= tlv
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A003
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Simple Two-way Active Measurement = Protocol Optional Extensions
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-02-21
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ippm
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 25
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.tx= t
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.o= rg/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tps://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way = Active
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performa= nce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specification.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--000000000000108d56059f9b103a-- From nobody Fri Feb 28 10:11:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809453A1B5D for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 10:11:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HJJXYzxOgjL3 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 10:10:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E47693A1B57 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 10:10:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id q23so4351669ljm.4 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 10:10:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mSHxZt9Sd3lrU3LmoVv3IDOAEVgWPucQ0Nlq10yCMgA=; b=XBZrZKH0i7KDHHdWY4DwqbtIxcEDgxSce98SUyfP8zxyR9g8w+DNaryhwICITeGtQs al83u8bGlyjmVQXY6/f/Ji9v5+eYXYi3j1FsJaXATGOBqcs+xVoLgSeojhKgV5kaCwdv 7X1tzDxuLf2s7MkV00r9mBs9MH025yOGb8MyhqjDGq75C1wobNODy7MgX44ZPv3SGmNs LF/0Nje81aOzDf4dtsUX4r1NE75DY/8qYASZ4mt20Fl8uU+1mSUdb+mhUt5Hb3Rp0gxC EkoJRMbsi4MGoNQWBWGjlaQJsxF3JWAr7r0O2A3RGrRMOpOuvqfSY156Q7vsgbnkHfPF c76Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mSHxZt9Sd3lrU3LmoVv3IDOAEVgWPucQ0Nlq10yCMgA=; b=bFJQMzdCiIeAfvkNbxyi0Y6AXKHjPrbu+wxr/ASosTEp3CYDPSZgvE5jjwduU2T/eM lRkIv25Vb0/eBNzMEJmuZffRTpsWdbrZIHLpicYkXvnA4Jl5I9MZ+GoXs2oIULMWL8wB S70TarTMDmvXN9L/I6h1L8PTgTzBY2hp+s/2C5NDNxQfD9Z+ktZflc791CWt81DM6iRk jccBJOs6VTuVFgkKNliBmtr1cVWweb4udtVro9/pXBsLUU2W5ikUXGxDo/ymEJ5q4jUO U7MK/uuYgXCYUA2bZif6SJueC8/k4BapxtYtz4enE9X8LAmmOVQgTKLCgEavZ1dGdS64 KnkA== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ0m3k5crAnT+r/lhBx9Nf/8kcDl5lFDm7CLsI+It8MUs7VpOCiM XrSWLJPmBg/4QoWloVKU/bfubs7DFyUr38+OLsgQAdGd9A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vslu9dRzix0jS6k8Ejkf/h6lYKMrmUkxNAcPzM3azMC230DNKxlIlMhrk5YnK7bvQHra1tGjxmA/dVFRkUcteY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:232:: with SMTP id z18mr3853523ljn.85.1582913452136; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 10:10:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158230107443.29037.14133930624764653909.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4ABD2C49-D3AC-4E3E-8059-259371085D91@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Rakesh Gandhi Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 13:10:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: Greg Mirsky Cc: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000065abd059fa6c263" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 18:11:01 -0000 --000000000000065abd059fa6c263 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Greg, Thanks for your reply. The draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm includes both TWAMP Light and STAMP (Section 3.2) (TLVs for STAMP in other sections). Two drafts are updating the same field in the STAMP packet format. Thanks, Rakesh On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Rakesh, > thank you for your interest in the update to STAMP extensions. Can you > elaborate on where you see the conflict between STAMP and your proposal? Is > the change you've proposed applicable to STAMP test packet? As far as I > understand, STAMP cannot support your proposal and interwork with a system > that is complaint with draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm. As for STAP > interworking with TWAMP in Unauthenticated mode, SSID doesn't change > anything, as TWAMP Session-Sender will zero the field and Session-Reflector > will ignore it on receipt. So I don't see conflict here at all. I greatly > appreciate your clarification. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 7:48 PM Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) > wrote: > >> Hi Greg, >> >> I noticed that this STAMP TLV draft update is proposing to modify the >> STAMP packet format to contain SSID. >> >> >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> >> | Error Estimate | SSID | >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> >> >> >> The SRPM draft posted in December had already proposed to use the same >> field for control-code. >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm-05 >> >> . . >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> >> | Error Estimate | Reserved | Control Code | >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> >> . >> >> >> >> Looks like there is a conflict in packet format update proposed that need >> to sort out. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rakesh >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *ippm on behalf of Greg Mirsky < >> gregimirsky@gmail.com> >> *Date: *Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM >> *To: *IETF IPPM WG >> *Subject: *[ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for >> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >> >> >> >> Dear All, >> >> the new version includes updates to the Followup Telemetry TLV and >> introduces the new HMAC TLV. >> >> We always welcome and greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and >> suggestions. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Greg >> >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> From: >> Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM >> Subject: New Version Notification for >> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >> To: Henrik Nydell >, Min >> Xiao , Adi Masputra , Ernesto >> Ruffini , Gregory Mirsky , >> Richard Foote >> >> >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv >> Revision: 03 >> Title: Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional >> Extensions >> Document date: 2020-02-21 >> Group: ippm >> Pages: 25 >> URL: >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >> Status: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ >> Htmlized: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 >> Htmlized: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv >> Diff: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 >> >> Abstract: >> This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active >> Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performance >> metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base >> specification. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --000000000000065abd059fa6c263 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg,
Thanks for your reply.
T= he draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm includes both TWAMP Light and STAMP (Sect= ion 3.2) (TLVs for STAMP in other sections). Two drafts are updating the sa= me field in the STAMP packet format.
Thanks,
Rakes= h


On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky <= gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrot= e:
Hi Rakesh,
thank you for your interest in the update to STAMP exten= sions. Can you elaborate on where you see the conflict between STAMP and yo= ur proposal? Is the change you've proposed applicable to STAMP test pac= ket? As far as I understand, STAMP cannot support your proposal and interwo= rk with a system that is complaint with draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm. As = for STAP interworking with TWAMP in Unauthenticated mode, SSID doesn't = change anything, as TWAMP Session-Sender will zero the field and Session-Re= flector will ignore it on receipt. So I don't see conflict here at all.= I greatly appreciate your clarification.

Regards,=
Greg

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 7:48 PM Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi= ) <rgandhi@cisco.= com> wrote:

Hi Greg,

I noticed that this STAMP TLV draft update is propos= ing to modify the STAMP packet format to contain SSID.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Error Estimate=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SSID=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 |
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0

The SRPM draft posted in December had already propos= ed to use the same field for control-code.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-g= andhi-spring-twamp-srpm-05

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Error Estimate=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | Reserv= ed=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Control Code |

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Looks like there is a conflict in packet format upda= te proposed that need to sort out.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Rakesh

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: = ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org>= ; on behalf of Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-st= amp-option-tlv-03.txt

=C2=A0

Dear All,

the new version includes updates to the Followup Tel= emetry TLV and introduces the new HMAC TLV.

We always welcome and greatly appreciate your commen= ts, questions, and suggestions.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.t= xt
To: Henrik Nydell <hnydell@accedian.com>, Min Xiao <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn>, Adi Masputra = <adi@apple.com>= ;, Ernesto Ruffini <eruffini@outsys.org>, Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Richard Foote <footer.foote@nokia.com>=




A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-= tlv
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A003
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Simple Two-way Active Measurement = Protocol Optional Extensions
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-02-21
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ippm
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 25
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.tx= t
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.o= rg/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tps://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way = Active
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performa= nce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specification.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
--000000000000065abd059fa6c263-- From nobody Fri Feb 28 12:12:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351E03A1D39; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:12:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I5ofPt2WkOdy; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:12:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22c.google.com (mail-lj1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE3B63A1D3C; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id q8so4674364ljj.11; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:12:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uzL3xqRH/c+cizzqa/d+r0x8nyKPozD6JiY/ugAbCR4=; b=WfiRcJ08pjz070M66+1D8eJ9mkoyuX0tqqzCpcIl5x/hN+sE+P8jxfuvrISTbHwzLi TGZEwvvAJxIzBHiBoL8DrLXbXpUUlrEeispmFmJBdtjx1bLURRaG6aiZNXxRzuq22sLl BO3Dw1XhUU1TDFmCd/fGOsN+DPMbIgK4E9yScblwwiX1lSmrSh5QR00exoF+01VA1PsW GpAwB+cfVH4+PpqIdryIdpPffpcCrnFLI4SGxVlCkgCZmhgcFMc5jDyjfMBRUicaASms gMfVdsPZUmAj/q5KJSJgIbGuUXIlhSS2tF2fGoZ5LZiGZxxaMoznjjfjvk7b8dNTtPiZ XiOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uzL3xqRH/c+cizzqa/d+r0x8nyKPozD6JiY/ugAbCR4=; b=NZ43ppBVQvr7HK+zEhJlTp9+gc2GUW/4OTmRPIVtB3icZVc+1wn79+a4OCn1+Yqavn BIF5TBhhNQvC6/4baTIuHGk03+6bG/S64bjdslXvmHcGJV6ivi2S0I3aS8iRKqi2E6QX UIJmnUq7xgJVK6g5vL9YzwZtPCkrcRAtbiSaiCvmxZM5yXTa+DR8zdK+cNA7E7NzxAWC auaW790XlN1a5b7GFL4moI/wjQ78zOjQmPq7j5gtwVbaIZ2UNU99IM962UvtnXelexBa ZJH7SAB9RABRjtmbAyQybFzW/2JuYwAixn/gnR1kgsXPuErnr/s8kykFa6SORB6My4aJ wCSw== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ08zOiaUNjmMCTtdhfmsqiGtavRos0SYy8krwYz15GBpNZKg7mK QCy9y8XVQd/4MmsErgcJvkJZGvk9GP/NnK8GZoU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vtgHipYK/IeG23Rh+gtlCwQEa19kS8mgsflGQmF88QI5EkG47McpNULuoOV1EWnY5Zsmv2l3MRpkjx8INpSXjw= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8898:: with SMTP id k24mr3802514lji.36.1582920760786; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:12:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158230107443.29037.14133930624764653909.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4ABD2C49-D3AC-4E3E-8059-259371085D91@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:12:29 -0800 Message-ID: To: Rakesh Gandhi , IPPM Chairs , spring-chairs@ietf.org Cc: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a781b0059fa87572" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 20:12:46 -0000 --000000000000a781b0059fa87572 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Rakesh, thank you for your expedient clarification. I think that one assumption made in your draft requires very careful consideration by IPPM WG that had worked on STAMP for quite some time already. Here's the paragraph that raises a question: The loss measurement probe and query messages defined in this document are also equally applicable to STAMP and STAMP TLVs, and use the message formats defined in [I-D.ippm-stamp]. As I understand, you've planned to anchor this work at SPRING WG though you propose to update documents developed in IPPM WG. Perhaps Chars of these two WGs will discuss and suggest to you on the appropriate WG to host this draft. As for the proposed changes to STAMP, I believe that these should be handled with lots of caution and we encourage authors to make the use of the STAMP extension mechanism provided by TLVs. Regards, Greg On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 10:10 AM Rakesh Gandhi wrote: > Hi Greg, > Thanks for your reply. > The draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm includes both TWAMP Light and STAMP > (Section 3.2) (TLVs for STAMP in other sections). Two drafts are updating > the same field in the STAMP packet format. > Thanks, > Rakesh > > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > >> Hi Rakesh, >> thank you for your interest in the update to STAMP extensions. Can you >> elaborate on where you see the conflict between STAMP and your proposal? Is >> the change you've proposed applicable to STAMP test packet? As far as I >> understand, STAMP cannot support your proposal and interwork with a system >> that is complaint with draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm. As for STAP >> interworking with TWAMP in Unauthenticated mode, SSID doesn't change >> anything, as TWAMP Session-Sender will zero the field and Session-Reflector >> will ignore it on receipt. So I don't see conflict here at all. I greatly >> appreciate your clarification. >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 7:48 PM Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) < >> rgandhi@cisco.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> I noticed that this STAMP TLV draft update is proposing to modify the >>> STAMP packet format to contain SSID. >>> >>> >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> | Error Estimate | SSID | >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> >>> >>> The SRPM draft posted in December had already proposed to use the same >>> field for control-code. >>> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm-05 >>> >>> . . >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> | Error Estimate | Reserved | Control Code | >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> Looks like there is a conflict in packet format update proposed that >>> need to sort out. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Rakesh >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *ippm on behalf of Greg Mirsky < >>> gregimirsky@gmail.com> >>> *Date: *Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM >>> *To: *IETF IPPM WG >>> *Subject: *[ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for >>> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> the new version includes updates to the Followup Telemetry TLV and >>> introduces the new HMAC TLV. >>> >>> We always welcome and greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and >>> suggestions. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>> From: >>> Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM >>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>> To: Henrik Nydell >, Min >>> Xiao , Adi Masputra , Ernesto >>> Ruffini , Gregory Mirsky , >>> Richard Foote >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the >>> IETF repository. >>> >>> Name: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv >>> Revision: 03 >>> Title: Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional >>> Extensions >>> Document date: 2020-02-21 >>> Group: ippm >>> Pages: 25 >>> URL: >>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>> Status: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ >>> Htmlized: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 >>> Htmlized: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv >>> Diff: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active >>> Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performance >>> metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base >>> specification. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>> submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> The IETF Secretariat >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ippm mailing list >> ippm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >> > --000000000000a781b0059fa87572 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Rakesh,
thank you for your expedient clarification.= I think that one assumption made in your draft requires very careful consi= deration by IPPM WG that had worked on STAMP for quite some time already. H= ere's the paragraph that raises a question:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The = loss measurement probe and query messages defined in this
=C2=A0 =C2=A0d= ocument are also equally applicable to STAMP and STAMP TLVs, and use
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0the message formats defined in [I-D.ippm-stamp].
As= I understand, you've planned to anchor this work at SPRING WG though y= ou propose to update documents developed in IPPM WG. Perhaps Chars of these= two WGs will discuss and suggest to you on the appropriate WG to host this= draft.
As for the proposed changes to STAMP, I believe that thes= e should be handled with lots of caution and we encourage authors to make t= he use of the STAMP extension mechanism provided by TLVs.

Regards,
Greg

<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 10:10 AM Rakes= h Gandhi <rgandhi.ietf@gmail.c= om> wrote:
Hi Greg,
Thanks for your reply.
The draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm includes both TWAMP Light and STAMP (Se= ction 3.2) (TLVs for STAMP in other sections). Two drafts are updating the = same field in the STAMP packet format.
Thanks,
Rak= esh


On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky = <gregimirsky@= gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Rakesh,
thank you for your interest in t= he update to STAMP extensions. Can you elaborate on where you see the confl= ict between STAMP and your proposal? Is the change you've proposed appl= icable to STAMP test packet? As far as I understand, STAMP cannot support y= our proposal and interwork with a system that is complaint with draft-gandh= i-spring-twamp-srpm. As for STAP interworking with TWAMP in Unauthenticated= mode, SSID doesn't change anything, as TWAMP Session-Sender will zero = the field and Session-Reflector will ignore it on receipt. So I don't s= ee conflict here at all. I greatly appreciate your clarification.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 7:48 P= M Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) <rgandhi@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Greg,

I noticed that this STAMP TLV draft update is propos= ing to modify the STAMP packet format to contain SSID.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Error Estimate=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SSID=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 |
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0

The SRPM draft posted in December had already propos= ed to use the same field for control-code.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-g= andhi-spring-twamp-srpm-05

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Error Estimate=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | Reserv= ed=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Control Code |

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Looks like there is a conflict in packet format upda= te proposed that need to sort out.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Rakesh

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: = ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org>= ; on behalf of Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-st= amp-option-tlv-03.txt

=C2=A0

Dear All,

the new version includes updates to the Followup Tel= emetry TLV and introduces the new HMAC TLV.

We always welcome and greatly appreciate your commen= ts, questions, and suggestions.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.t= xt
To: Henrik Nydell <hnydell@accedian.com>, Min Xiao <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn>, Adi Masputra = <adi@apple.com>= ;, Ernesto Ruffini <eruffini@outsys.org>, Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Richard Foote <footer.foote@nokia.com>=




A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-= tlv
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A003
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Simple Two-way Active Measurement = Protocol Optional Extensions
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-02-21
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ippm
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 25
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.tx= t
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.o= rg/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tps://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way = Active
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performa= nce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specification.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
--000000000000a781b0059fa87572-- From nobody Fri Feb 28 14:35:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 823533A1F28; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 14:34:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: ippm@ietf.org, ietf@kuehlewind.net X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.119.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158292929750.19931.4916924717822959761@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 14:34:57 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] ippm - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 107 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 22:35:05 -0000 Dear Tommy Pauly, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. ippm Session 1 (2:00 requested) Monday, 23 March 2020, Afternoon Session II 1550-1750 Room Name: Georgia A size: 100 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/107/sessions/ippm.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: IP Performance Measurement Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Tommy Pauly Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 60 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: httpbis taps quic intarea maprg panrg tsvarea tsvwg capport Technology Overlap: 6man bfd bmwg v6ops opsec spring Key Participant Conflict: mpls People who must be present: Alfred Channon Morton Frank Brockners Brian Trammell Mirja Kuehlewind Bill Cerveny Giuseppe Fioccola Tommy Pauly Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>> Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Feb 28 15:41:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 818923A00B0; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:41:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lEyLn78Jt-BD; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:40:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FB233A0042; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:40:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id x7so5232379ljc.1; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:40:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=frl1ALjm4cd9/UN2e5N1u7zVBQ+e1O9EKm6GVwvm3FQ=; b=nfhCk/23+VXBpYBO3mQ7MmD2rVBENeY116aiM8otCcYkcD9SmH2Db0nrJO+gUudMzi pOGPGF1YEOMSCR4kyRwXsi4sj/tqtNHN8DCSiLh9sZmHd/5RhxLCNhHEr5QxLtzvsEQB gl1URkvNoTGKTNsNuVYW3vxTtzAv3X+JHiWu1vHvf33Fx91QiOISNevwVDnmABg6PZxA nA9Y6gOidwWjW++/pL64e99x2g9/2J+eVMKRLPb2D5PFH51LktvQEj/JoWfCsokNIoze esgaiJ6fEI/iztHRi5JA/p0hcJAYLRSf1XVuVTLcRZB3BaCp9yEnnAePZkJJ9OKNWBwH GzCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=frl1ALjm4cd9/UN2e5N1u7zVBQ+e1O9EKm6GVwvm3FQ=; b=ioKEBZ+R+vY0F3LhzNpEDXqf+hQFi7jYXzFQCnssXEEPF0nnxmMGpa383qOyvo52o/ N8YdvX0fRzf7G847WhBNcoZdC9n7CnGaq0m/ET0Hyhs/O37DKONlDgWa3yY6aZZ//Jv6 YJyDgO8hsfyXfUSvLM5wk/7hxg3hoOdEdVaDG+Vdpz8KjtuakkZiMMY3p15fM+eLUrMY pvffPVSVBhH8l3hg14QSjZhSaRfGFjGUuTm3wEk0AwgDKJ93/LYuSTZXVM1wrfSopP0i MdXkK3SEmK/X1NznVzkotgFODmN5u9tgkqIhEZDppwdSbBS8DLapxdEQXl4DXSIO8uEk qkHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ15Bt2Rp+5y2L1vEP215QAagCnkLWB72InMJ0Q6vcpc05BBV+L7 r2aLxJtVxNPDqot5LZiFHABxkmvj05pDzlKjFQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vuj//yyNzmA4qaMMV8aVLCj1FR+AADVmeRmRrXUyKffg2oKURFvfo2YCMciVZfKg9u/0b1wBG93fcTpIwnU4LU= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8551:: with SMTP id u17mr2682328ljj.214.1582933256405; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:40:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158230107443.29037.14133930624764653909.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4ABD2C49-D3AC-4E3E-8059-259371085D91@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Rakesh Gandhi Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 18:40:44 -0500 Message-ID: To: Greg Mirsky Cc: IPPM Chairs , spring-chairs@ietf.org, "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000073874d059fab5e5b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 23:41:02 -0000 --00000000000073874d059fab5e5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Greg, Thanks for your reply. After some good discussions between the IPPM and SPRING chairs, it has already been agreed that the draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm will be hosted in SPRING. It is captured in the chairs update at the last IETF meeting: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-spring-sessa-chairs-slides-01 Original purpose of the draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv accepted as a WG document was to define TLVs for STAMP. But now it is also modifying the STAMP packet format. Shouldn't SSID (session ID) be in a STAMP TLV? It can then be 32-bit number (as opposed to 16-bit) and can be used for encoding additional information. This way, we can keep the 16-bits available in the STAMP packet format for future use - instead of leaving no space at all and using up all the available bits in the message for SSID. Recall that draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm only uses one bit flag from the 16-bit field, rest is still available. Thanks, Rakesh On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 3:12 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Rakesh, > thank you for your expedient clarification. I think that one assumption > made in your draft requires very careful consideration by IPPM WG that had > worked on STAMP for quite some time already. Here's the paragraph that > raises a question: > The loss measurement probe and query messages defined in this > document are also equally applicable to STAMP and STAMP TLVs, and use > the message formats defined in [I-D.ippm-stamp]. > As I understand, you've planned to anchor this work at SPRING WG though > you propose to update documents developed in IPPM WG. Perhaps Chars of > these two WGs will discuss and suggest to you on the appropriate WG to host > this draft. > As for the proposed changes to STAMP, I believe that these should be > handled with lots of caution and we encourage authors to make the use of > the STAMP extension mechanism provided by TLVs. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 10:10 AM Rakesh Gandhi > wrote: > >> Hi Greg, >> Thanks for your reply. >> The draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm includes both TWAMP Light and STAMP >> (Section 3.2) (TLVs for STAMP in other sections). Two drafts are updating >> the same field in the STAMP packet format. >> Thanks, >> Rakesh >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Rakesh, >>> thank you for your interest in the update to STAMP extensions. Can you >>> elaborate on where you see the conflict between STAMP and your proposal? Is >>> the change you've proposed applicable to STAMP test packet? As far as I >>> understand, STAMP cannot support your proposal and interwork with a system >>> that is complaint with draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm. As for STAP >>> interworking with TWAMP in Unauthenticated mode, SSID doesn't change >>> anything, as TWAMP Session-Sender will zero the field and Session-Reflector >>> will ignore it on receipt. So I don't see conflict here at all. I greatly >>> appreciate your clarification. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Greg >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 7:48 PM Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) < >>> rgandhi@cisco.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Greg, >>>> >>>> I noticed that this STAMP TLV draft update is proposing to modify the >>>> STAMP packet format to contain SSID. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>> >>>> | Error Estimate | SSID | >>>> >>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The SRPM draft posted in December had already proposed to use the same >>>> field for control-code. >>>> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm-05 >>>> >>>> . . >>>> >>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>> >>>> | Error Estimate | Reserved | Control Code | >>>> >>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Looks like there is a conflict in packet format update proposed that >>>> need to sort out. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Rakesh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From: *ippm on behalf of Greg Mirsky < >>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com> >>>> *Date: *Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM >>>> *To: *IETF IPPM WG >>>> *Subject: *[ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for >>>> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear All, >>>> >>>> the new version includes updates to the Followup Telemetry TLV and >>>> introduces the new HMAC TLV. >>>> >>>> We always welcome and greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and >>>> suggestions. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>> From: >>>> Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM >>>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>>> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>>> To: Henrik Nydell >, Min >>>> Xiao , Adi Masputra , Ernesto >>>> Ruffini , Gregory Mirsky , >>>> Richard Foote >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>>> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the >>>> IETF repository. >>>> >>>> Name: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv >>>> Revision: 03 >>>> Title: Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional >>>> Extensions >>>> Document date: 2020-02-21 >>>> Group: ippm >>>> Pages: 25 >>>> URL: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>>> Status: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ >>>> Htmlized: >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 >>>> Htmlized: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv >>>> Diff: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active >>>> Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performance >>>> metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base >>>> specification. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>> submission >>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>> >>>> The IETF Secretariat >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ippm mailing list >>> ippm@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >>> >> --00000000000073874d059fab5e5b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg,
Thanks for your r= eply.
After some good discussions between the IPPM and SPRING cha= irs, it has already been agreed that the draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm wi= ll be hosted in SPRING. It is captured in the chairs update at the last IET= F meeting:

Original purpose of the draft-ietf-i= ppm-stamp-option-tlv accepted as a WG document was to define TLVs for STAMP= . But now it is also modifying the STAMP packet format. Shouldn't SSID = (session ID) be in a STAMP TLV? It can then be 32-bit number (as opposed to= 16-bit) and can be used for encoding additional information.

This way, we can keep the 16-bits available in the STAMP pa= cket format for future use - instead of leaving no space at all and using u= p all the available bits in the message for SSID.

<= div>Recall that draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm only uses one bit flag from = the 16-bit field, rest is still available.

Tha= nks,
Rakesh


On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 3:12 PM G= reg Mirsky <g= regimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Rakesh,
thank you for your expe= dient clarification. I think that one assumption made in your draft require= s very careful consideration by IPPM WG that had worked on STAMP for quite = some time already. Here's the paragraph that raises a question:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The loss measurement probe and query messages defined in th= is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0document are also equally applicable to STAMP and STAMP = TLVs, and use
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the message formats defined in [I-D.ippm-stam= p].
As I understand, you've planned to anchor this work a= t SPRING WG though you propose to update documents developed in IPPM WG. Pe= rhaps Chars of these two WGs will discuss and suggest to you on the appropr= iate WG to host this draft.
As for the proposed changes to STAMP,= I believe that these should be handled with lots of caution and we encoura= ge authors to make the use of the STAMP extension mechanism provided by TLV= s.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Feb 28, 20= 20 at 10:10 AM Rakesh Gandhi <rgandhi.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Greg,
Thanks for your reply.
The draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm i= ncludes both TWAMP Light and STAMP (Section 3.2) (TLVs for STAMP in other s= ections). Two drafts are updating the same field in the STAMP packet format= .
Thanks,
Rakesh

On Thu, F= eb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Rakesh,thank you for your interest in the update to STAMP extensions. Can you el= aborate on where you see the conflict between STAMP and your proposal? Is t= he change you've proposed applicable to STAMP test packet? As far as I = understand, STAMP cannot support your proposal and interwork with a system = that is complaint with draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm. As for STAP interwor= king with TWAMP in Unauthenticated mode, SSID doesn't change anything, = as TWAMP Session-Sender will zero the field and Session-Reflector will igno= re it on receipt. So I don't see conflict here at all. I greatly apprec= iate your clarification.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 7:48 PM Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) <rgandhi@cisco.com> wrote= :

Hi Greg,

I noticed that this STAMP TLV draft update is propos= ing to modify the STAMP packet format to contain SSID.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Error Estimate=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SSID=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 |
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0

The SRPM draft posted in December had already propos= ed to use the same field for control-code.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-g= andhi-spring-twamp-srpm-05

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Error Estimate=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | Reserv= ed=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Control Code |

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Looks like there is a conflict in packet format upda= te proposed that need to sort out.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Rakesh

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: = ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org>= ; on behalf of Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-st= amp-option-tlv-03.txt

=C2=A0

Dear All,

the new version includes updates to the Followup Tel= emetry TLV and introduces the new HMAC TLV.

We always welcome and greatly appreciate your commen= ts, questions, and suggestions.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.t= xt
To: Henrik Nydell <hnydell@accedian.com>, Min Xiao <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn>, Adi Masputra = <adi@apple.com>= ;, Ernesto Ruffini <eruffini@outsys.org>, Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Richard Foote <footer.foote@nokia.com>=




A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-= tlv
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A003
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Simple Two-way Active Measurement = Protocol Optional Extensions
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-02-21
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ippm
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 25
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.tx= t
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.o= rg/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tps://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way = Active
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performa= nce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specification.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
--00000000000073874d059fab5e5b-- From nobody Fri Feb 28 15:57:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F41733A0524; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:57:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C0tHk8jLVe87; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:57:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com (mail-lf1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6C793A0474; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id b15so3383515lfc.4; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:57:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7a3fQF3JYDtv6awIBV5YNMwzUPTeOrO4CsRfvSa9LQw=; b=nPGZoLLPaxygKNXhymLThpCUqeLcjO5ESh4SX4+IKLCTqNSFdXfdd4Ea4+HE9qMfP1 QuE+iADE8MfaRoGk4Oqbr7PA0d2kTQqJAUibXipYJi3Zc70ZcS+b0AQJ+hzBN/HBrKQM pwppxfb0CCTjiKf1rq/uunfaybZ0NlCpXmBVLYI3kCPJMWEQtnlKQSYa+A3jR/JkWKqB 5OEHN3w+qLx60/lSSZNYCnGn3jCCU/0cZDyQZKkrFNcX6xW76UKYHsWvWo+6Tmlqr6o2 ZIagEkj60uOo0rrrn5Xw2wc8+8vok8DtGauZRfvjx7+b5XU0/aIxVw7Nftcf1XGqBFuB 3Upw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7a3fQF3JYDtv6awIBV5YNMwzUPTeOrO4CsRfvSa9LQw=; b=TJ/Tt7wD/s0bGRb0b/NfsBECHgPTzWS3+uOHR9a1who53fonvmX/x5ZryTGXy4oDok cPMPNauorJDHNoaaLI3U4F98+5cdKfGzF4speGaBcBSllFBVJaayAaC5D2DzgbReoPMK p0ZsOG+Ow3h72e8HK4ACLs8Ev8K9JEhedQF+Iseeise0P/opfc0/LBcQw3iYvY8CEsJb oX01LdK9cRaJqpa7WD1JU8ktSvsng8yfQ+NSGS6x1SfFltwRPgVpDCe41gW6+xXzzbgR JWWH70w/ruKMgR+M+1ZLZ47pIzqFWOumTxOi58aHU20I28OM6w6oY53Ib492hwyaACZM zvoA== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ3884Ld3w4XVNmE3bnZzEyRAqg5n8s6i7X4tyMGQxJx1Ery9V/n wgbXfM98E1xaOKkldXGhLzVArm8nP4Ea9QXwKnE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vssGO1w7ZQsOemX06GrKpN2XqvxdaZ/RIaJjotDwlDEkfw7hyvgvFF2+JXk8YEw6r43RHsDAwgPkGuVoZNePBc= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4c39:: with SMTP id u25mr3763866lfq.195.1582934227712; Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:57:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158230107443.29037.14133930624764653909.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4ABD2C49-D3AC-4E3E-8059-259371085D91@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:56:56 -0800 Message-ID: To: Rakesh Gandhi Cc: IPPM Chairs , spring-chairs@ietf.org, "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000587e60059fab98fc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 23:57:15 -0000 --000000000000587e60059fab98fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Rakesh, thank you for reminding me of the decision WGs chairs made. Your questions about SSID are greatly appreciated. Authors of the STAMP TLV draft have discussed where to place the SSID field, and our proposal is reflected in the updated draft. I'll present it at the IPPM WG meeting and will be glad to discuss and answer any questions. Regards, Greg On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 3:40 PM Rakesh Gandhi wrote: > Hi Greg, > Thanks for your reply. > After some good discussions between the IPPM and SPRING chairs, it has > already been agreed that the draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm will be hosted > in SPRING. It is captured in the chairs update at the last IETF meeting: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-spring-sessa-chairs-slides-01 > > Original purpose of the draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv accepted as a WG > document was to define TLVs for STAMP. But now it is also modifying the > STAMP packet format. Shouldn't SSID (session ID) be in a STAMP TLV? It can > then be 32-bit number (as opposed to 16-bit) and can be used for encoding > additional information. > > This way, we can keep the 16-bits available in the STAMP packet format for > future use - instead of leaving no space at all and using up all the > available bits in the message for SSID. > > Recall that draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm only uses one bit flag from the > 16-bit field, rest is still available. > > Thanks, > Rakesh > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 3:12 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > >> Hi Rakesh, >> thank you for your expedient clarification. I think that one assumption >> made in your draft requires very careful consideration by IPPM WG that had >> worked on STAMP for quite some time already. Here's the paragraph that >> raises a question: >> The loss measurement probe and query messages defined in this >> document are also equally applicable to STAMP and STAMP TLVs, and use >> the message formats defined in [I-D.ippm-stamp]. >> As I understand, you've planned to anchor this work at SPRING WG though >> you propose to update documents developed in IPPM WG. Perhaps Chars of >> these two WGs will discuss and suggest to you on the appropriate WG to host >> this draft. >> As for the proposed changes to STAMP, I believe that these should be >> handled with lots of caution and we encourage authors to make the use of >> the STAMP extension mechanism provided by TLVs. >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 10:10 AM Rakesh Gandhi >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Greg, >>> Thanks for your reply. >>> The draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm includes both TWAMP Light and STAMP >>> (Section 3.2) (TLVs for STAMP in other sections). Two drafts are updating >>> the same field in the STAMP packet format. >>> Thanks, >>> Rakesh >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Rakesh, >>>> thank you for your interest in the update to STAMP extensions. Can you >>>> elaborate on where you see the conflict between STAMP and your proposal? Is >>>> the change you've proposed applicable to STAMP test packet? As far as I >>>> understand, STAMP cannot support your proposal and interwork with a system >>>> that is complaint with draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm. As for STAP >>>> interworking with TWAMP in Unauthenticated mode, SSID doesn't change >>>> anything, as TWAMP Session-Sender will zero the field and Session-Reflector >>>> will ignore it on receipt. So I don't see conflict here at all. I greatly >>>> appreciate your clarification. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 7:48 PM Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) < >>>> rgandhi@cisco.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>> >>>>> I noticed that this STAMP TLV draft update is proposing to modify the >>>>> STAMP packet format to contain SSID. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>>> >>>>> | Error Estimate | SSID | >>>>> >>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The SRPM draft posted in December had already proposed to use the same >>>>> field for control-code. >>>>> >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm-05 >>>>> >>>>> . . >>>>> >>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>>> >>>>> | Error Estimate | Reserved | Control Code | >>>>> >>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Looks like there is a conflict in packet format update proposed that >>>>> need to sort out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Rakesh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From: *ippm on behalf of Greg Mirsky < >>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com> >>>>> *Date: *Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM >>>>> *To: *IETF IPPM WG >>>>> *Subject: *[ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for >>>>> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear All, >>>>> >>>>> the new version includes updates to the Followup Telemetry TLV and >>>>> introduces the new HMAC TLV. >>>>> >>>>> We always welcome and greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and >>>>> suggestions. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Greg >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>> From: >>>>> Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM >>>>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>>>> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>>>> To: Henrik Nydell >, Min >>>>> Xiao , Adi Masputra , Ernesto >>>>> Ruffini , Gregory Mirsky , >>>>> Richard Foote >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>>>> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the >>>>> IETF repository. >>>>> >>>>> Name: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv >>>>> Revision: 03 >>>>> Title: Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional >>>>> Extensions >>>>> Document date: 2020-02-21 >>>>> Group: ippm >>>>> Pages: 25 >>>>> URL: >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt >>>>> Status: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ >>>>> Htmlized: >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 >>>>> Htmlized: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv >>>>> Diff: >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03 >>>>> >>>>> Abstract: >>>>> This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active >>>>> Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performance >>>>> metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base >>>>> specification. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>>> submission >>>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>>> >>>>> The IETF Secretariat >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ippm mailing list >>>> ippm@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >>>> >>> --000000000000587e60059fab98fc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Rakesh,
thank you for reminding me of the decision W= Gs chairs made.
Your questions about SSID are greatly appreciated. Autho= rs of the STAMP TLV draft have discussed where to place the SSID field, and= our proposal is reflected in the updated draft. I'll present it at the= IPPM WG meeting and will be glad to discuss and answer any questions.
<= div>

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Feb 28, = 2020 at 3:40 PM Rakesh Gandhi <rgandhi.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Greg,
Thanks for your reply.
After some good discussions between = the IPPM and SPRING chairs, it has already been agreed that the draft-gandh= i-spring-twamp-srpm will be hosted in SPRING. It is captured in the chairs= update at the last IETF meeting:

Original purp= ose of the draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv accepted as a WG document was t= o define TLVs for STAMP. But now it is also modifying the STAMP packet form= at. Shouldn't SSID (session ID) be in a STAMP TLV? It can then be 32-bi= t number (as opposed to 16-bit) and can be used for encoding additional inf= ormation.

This way, we can keep the 16-bits av= ailable in the STAMP packet format for future use - instead of leaving no s= pace at all and using up all the available bits in the message for SSID.

Recall that draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm only = uses one bit flag from the 16-bit field, rest is still available.
=

Thanks,
Rakesh


=
On Fri, Fe= b 28, 2020 at 3:12 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Rakesh,
= thank you for your expedient clarification. I think that one assumption mad= e in your draft requires very careful consideration by IPPM WG that had wor= ked on STAMP for quite some time already. Here's the paragraph that rai= ses a question:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The loss measurement probe and query= messages defined in this
=C2=A0 =C2=A0document are also equally applica= ble to STAMP and STAMP TLVs, and use
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the message formats de= fined in [I-D.ippm-stamp].
As I understand, you've planne= d to anchor this work at SPRING WG though you propose to update documents d= eveloped in IPPM WG. Perhaps Chars of these two WGs will discuss and sugges= t to you on the appropriate WG to host this draft.
As for the pro= posed changes to STAMP, I believe that these should be handled with lots of= caution and we encourage authors to make the use of the STAMP extension me= chanism provided by TLVs.

Regards,
Greg<= /div>

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 10:10 AM Rakesh Gandhi <rgandhi.ietf@gmail.com> wro= te:
Hi Greg,
Thanks for your reply.
The draft-gan= dhi-spring-twamp-srpm includes both TWAMP Light and STAMP (Section 3.2) (TL= Vs for STAMP in other sections). Two drafts are updating the same field in = the STAMP packet format.
Thanks,
Rakesh
<= div>

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
Hi Rakesh,
thank you for your interest in the update to STA= MP extensions. Can you elaborate on where you see the conflict between STAM= P and your proposal? Is the change you've proposed applicable to STAMP = test packet? As far as I understand, STAMP cannot support your proposal and= interwork with a system that is complaint with draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-s= rpm. As for STAP interworking with TWAMP in Unauthenticated mode, SSID does= n't change anything, as TWAMP Session-Sender will zero the field and Se= ssion-Reflector will ignore it on receipt. So I don't see conflict here= at all. I greatly appreciate your clarification.

= Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 7:48 PM Rakesh Gandhi= (rgandhi) <rgand= hi@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Greg,

I noticed that this STAMP TLV draft update is propos= ing to modify the STAMP packet format to contain SSID.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Error Estimate=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SSID=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 |
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0

The SRPM draft posted in December had already propos= ed to use the same field for control-code.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-g= andhi-spring-twamp-srpm-05

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Error Estimate=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | Reserv= ed=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Control Code |

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Looks like there is a conflict in packet format upda= te proposed that need to sort out.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Rakesh

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: = ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org>= ; on behalf of Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:07 AM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-st= amp-option-tlv-03.txt

=C2=A0

Dear All,

the new version includes updates to the Followup Tel= emetry TLV and introduces the new HMAC TLV.

We always welcome and greatly appreciate your commen= ts, questions, and suggestions.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:04 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.t= xt
To: Henrik Nydell <hnydell@accedian.com>, Min Xiao <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn>, Adi Masputra = <adi@apple.com>= ;, Ernesto Ruffini <eruffini@outsys.org>, Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Richard Foote <footer.foote@nokia.com>=




A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-= tlv
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A003
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Simple Two-way Active Measurement = Protocol Optional Extensions
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-02-21
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ippm
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 25
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03.tx= t
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.o= rg/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tps://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-03
Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way = Active
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Measurement Protocol (STAMP) which enable measurement performa= nce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0metrics in addition to ones supported by the STAMP base
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specification.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
--000000000000587e60059fab98fc-- From nobody Sat Feb 29 11:09:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6B273A118C for ; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 11:09:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bou0_En9zQMn for ; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 11:09:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31B7C3A11A8 for ; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 11:09:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049297.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049297.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 01TJ23jk016328; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:09:46 -0500 Received: from tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (sbcsmtp3.sbc.com [144.160.112.28]) by m0049297.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 2yfw93rmjk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:09:45 -0500 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 01TJ9iMr107663; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 13:09:44 -0600 Received: from zlp30493.vci.att.com (zlp30493.vci.att.com [135.46.181.176]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 01TJ9ebw107578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 29 Feb 2020 13:09:41 -0600 Received: from zlp30493.vci.att.com (zlp30493.vci.att.com [127.0.0.1]) by zlp30493.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 681274009E7C; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:09:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (unknown [135.41.1.46]) by zlp30493.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 3E8D94009E7D; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:09:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 01TJ9dUe001114; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 13:09:40 -0600 Received: from mail-azure.research.att.com (mail-azure.research.att.com [135.207.255.18]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 01TJ9XgX000761; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 13:09:33 -0600 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njbdcas1.research.att.com [135.197.255.61]) by mail-azure.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B9E6E2C08; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:09:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from njmtexg5.research.att.com ([fe80::b09c:ff13:4487:78b6]) by njbdcas1.research.att.com ([fe80::8c6b:4b77:618f:9a01%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:09:31 -0500 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: "Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHV1wctFS6Rip/D9EmrzcoJkKGwaKgCYJrQgAiwJ4CAJ0R0IA== Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:09:30 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CFED6538B5@njmtexg5.research.att.com> References: <158034537714.4849.10709618065227686315@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CFA6F1DDD3@njmtexg5.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [69.141.203.172] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.138, 18.0.572 definitions=2020-02-29_07:2020-02-28, 2020-02-29 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2001150001 definitions=main-2002290147 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:09:48 -0000 Hi R=FCdiger, Thanks for your ideas on additional sources of random loss that we might encounter during Maximum IP-Layer Capacity testing. We can add some of your considerations directly into the draft. In general, the recommendation is to use test endpoints as close to the=20 measured link as possible (but this is not always possible). *In the last 2 weeks*, discussions of our Hackathon testing (and follow-up testing, to be shared at IETF-107) have occurred during the meetings of two other SDOs seeking Harmonized metrics and methods with IETF: ETSI Technical Committee STQ MOBILE and ITU-T Study Group 12 (Q17). Selected points follow: More on conditions encountered in testing: Some transmission technologies have multiple methods of operation that=20 may be activated when channel conditions degrade or improve, and these=20 transmission methods may determine the Maximum IP-Layer Capacity.=20 Examples include line-of-sight microwave modulator constellations,=20 or cellular modem technologies where the changes may be initiated=20 by a user moving from one coverage area to another. Operation in the=20 different transmission methods may be observed over time, but the modes=20 of Maximum IP-Layer Capacity will not be activated deterministically=20 as with the "turbo mode" described as previously described in Section 6.6. There is also new interest to apply the Maximum IP-Layer Capacity method during cellular drive testing. This will surely produce forms of=20 measurement path variation not yet seen, but the problems seen so far have all been grappled-with successfully. We will be developing a test plan with interested parties. Reporting Formats: Finally, the authors have also discussed measurement reporting and=20 results interpretation at the ETSI and SG12 Q17 meetings. We have listed=20 items to provide context to Singleton Capacity measurements: - timestamp (especially the time when the maximum was observed in dtn) - source and destination (by IP or other meaningful ID) - (inner) parameters of the test case (Section 4) - outer parameters, such as "done in motion" or other factors belonging=20 to the context of the measurement - result (to take care of cases where the process was somehow interrupted=20 or the attempt failed) - a field where unusual circumstances could be documented, and another=20 one for "ignore/mask out" purposes in further processing Thoughts on these and other aspects of reporting formats are welcome. Thanks for your consideration of these topics, we will update the=20 draft again shortly. Al (for the co-authors) > -----Original Message----- > From: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de [mailto:Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de] > Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2020 3:31 AM > To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > Subject: AW: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method- > 00.txt >=20 > Hi Al, >=20 > Conditions which might occur while measuring are >=20 > - congestion of an interconnection or backbone interface. I don't expect = that to > be prevalent, but it might happen. If the congested interface has a hig= her > bandwidth then the measurement sender, then the measurement packets > won't arrive as a burst at the bottleneck. Further, Random Early Detect= ion > may be deployed. In both cases > * packet loss is present, which is likely to occur independent of the s= ender rate. > * If the queue or congestion respectively is persistent, a small delay = variation is > present, which is independent of the sender rate too. It is bigger t= han the > delay variation of a non congested interface. >=20 > The drop pattern caused by a congested backbone or interconnection > interface is likely not causing a drop pattern which easy to characterize= . > A measurement of the access bandwidth is deteriorating to an estimate, as > single losses and queuing at an access may be hard to discern from the > queue and drops caused by backbone or interconnection links. If the acces= s > bandwidth is rate controlled by a policer, this will even be harder, as i= n > that case no queue will build up at the access. >=20 > - the presence of middleboxes might result in transport layer or applicat= ion specific > rate limitations. A variety of conditions may arise, ranging from compl= ete blocking > of a measurement flow to access bandwidth measurements being significan= tly higher > than the rates achieved by flows of other protocols or applications, if= the latter are > rate controlled by a middlebox while the measurement flow isn't. >=20 > It may also be a good idea to foresee ECN support by the measurement > system. A commodity ECN deployment may not be available by now, but > standardization efforts of ECN based network and transport behavior have > grown in the last decade. >=20 > This list isn't exhaustive and others are invited to append or discuss th= e > above scenarios. Hints on "how to detect" and "how to separate impact" of > effects impairing capacity measurements are welcome (especially those eas= y > to implement :) . >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Ruediger >=20 >=20 > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: ippm Im Auftrag von MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. Januar 2020 16:14 > An: ippm@ietf.org > Betreff: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method- > 00.txt >=20 > Hi IPPM, >=20 > Thanks to everyone who supported adoption of our draft. > This version simply changes the filename. >=20 > At the IETF-106 Hackathon, we encountered some new conditions in our > testing with the prototype implementation: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__github.com_IETF- > 2DHackathon_ietf106-2Dproject-2Dpresentations_blob_master_106-2Dacm- > 2DHackathon-2DMeasurements.pdf&d=3DDwIFAw&c=3DLFYZ- > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3D_6cen3Hn-e_hOm0BhY7aIpA58dd19Z9qGQsr8- > 6zYMI&m=3DLId4VFVBccULCDxpj9IhTYeQDcZSVtpUSc4r5kWT1nI&s=3DLwM10qGdCo3Dh9l= jl7pS > 0e2bEeZp056vnNWbSwziG74&e=3D >=20 > Load Adjustment: > Search Algorithm uses Loss and delay variation feedback >=20 > Observed: > Random loss throughout some tests, with insignificant delay variation >=20 > Possible revisions to Search Algorithm, etc. under these conditions: > Add a variable Loss threshold for conditions encountered > Continue "large" rate increases when loss-only is encountered > May need longer test durations under Loss-only Conditions >=20 > We'd like to discuss these findings further with the WG, and run some mor= e > tests to answer questions and investigate further. >=20 > regards, > Al, for the co-authors >=20