Subject: [Ipsec] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipsec-ikev2-ecc-groups-00.txt

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:51:02 -0400

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Security Protocol Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: ECC Groups For IKEv2
	Author(s)	: J. Solinas
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ipsec-ikev2-ecc-groups-00.txt
	Pages		: 6
	Date		: 2005-4-18
	
This document describes ECC groups for use as Diffie-Hellman groups 
   in the Internet Key Exchange version 2 (IKEv2) protocol.  These new 
   groups are defined to align IKEv2 with other standards, particularly 
   NIST standards, and with and to provide more efficient implementation
   than in previously defined groups.

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---

From: Tero Kivinen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:56:15 +0300

[email-masked] writes:
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Security Protocol
> Working Group of the IETF.
> 

I have 2 problems with this document.

1) My understanding was that IPsec working group cannot take any new
   work items. At least it does not match the working group charter in
   the http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ipsec-charter.html. The
   working group charter is already empty (I assume it anticipates the
   shutting down of the working group)...

   So why is this document taken as a working group document? This
   same question applies to the draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-ecp-groups-00.txt
   and draft-ietf-ipsec-ikev2-ecc-groups-00.txt

2) The second technical problem is that this document describes
   elliptic curve groups, but does not define how they are supposed to
   be used in the IKEv2. All elliptic curve text was removed from the
   IKEv2 document earlier, as we didn't have implementation experience
   of that, and the old IKEv1 text was not considered clear enough to
   describe what to put in the KE etc payloads. This document does not
   describe what format the KE payload has if the ECP group is used. 
-- 
[email-masked]

---

From: Paul Hoffman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:01:16 -0700

[[ ...regardless of the file name on the Internet Draft... ]]

>    describe what format the KE payload has if the ECP group is used.

Fully agree. In specific, we need to know exactly what bits will be 
used in the SKEYSEED calculation for g^ir. That should be added to a 
revision of this document or a revision of 
draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-ecc-groups.

A fully worked-out example in either of those two documents would 
also be very helpful to implementers. From the feedback I heard at 
the Santa Barbara IPsec bakeoffs, one of the main reasons nearly no 
one deployed ECC was that they couldn't find examples to test their 
code agains.

Also, in draft-ietf-ipsec-ikev2-ecc-groups, section 2 and 5 are in 
full disagreement. :-)

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--VPN Consortium