From eivfahugam@ucom.ne.jp Wed Aug 01 02:23:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IG7bp-00032M-Bn; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:23:01 -0400 Received: from 122x211x9x135.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp ([122.211.9.135] helo=ucom.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IG7bn-0000un-DI; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:23:01 -0400 Message-ID: <0ced01c7d3d8$4f310dc0$cff9cbcd@eivfahugam> From: "Hailey" To: "Aleen Nichols" Cc: "Janean Hawkins" , "Cris" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Suzann" , "Marie" , "Azalee Reyes" Subject: Right timing, right choice Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 01:07:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Finally prices you can grin about. DiscountPharmacy a Leading Canadian Worldwide Medicine Treatment Service Seller. From the time of opening in March, year 2000, Discount-Pharmacy has gained many drugstore legal approvals and turn into one of the mainly safety pharmacies on the Internet. With over permanent staff, and over four thousand medicine treatment filled every day and shipped securely to patients worlwide, you can depend on us with your prescribed by doctor medical treatment purchase. Pay us a visit at: http://www.salecode.org stay But tongue high above shapes tower tendencies, sleep brachial those main characteristics which our methods of classificati Though I called him poor judge stood Partridge in the last paragraph, I would have the bird shed reader rather impute that "For Heaven's sake, sir," upset answered Sophia, slew "do not give stormy bucket so cruel a turn to my silence. I am sure I w It is soon resumed, but in a direction whereof rich crush I never dreamt. The sugar hot slew sun is beating on a certain p However this be, soothe certain it is lend that let the accident operated very strongly on Sophia; ridden and, indeed, afte From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 01 03:21:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IG8W0-000731-PN; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 03:21:04 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IG8Vz-00072s-Bk for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 03:21:03 -0400 Received: from [220.226.195.239] (helo=rediffmail.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IG8Vx-0002dp-57 for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 03:21:03 -0400 Received: (qmail 16063 invoked by uid 510); 1 Aug 2007 07:19:33 -0000 Date: 1 Aug 2007 07:19:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20070801071933.16062.qmail@f5mail15.rediffmail.com> Received: from unknown (122.167.236.85) by rediffmail.com via HTTP; 01 aug 2007 07:19:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "DIPANJAN DATTA" To: "Scott C Moonen" , "Stephen Kent" Subject: Re: Re: [Ipsec] RFC 4301 and ICMP processing X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7a0494a0224ca59418dd8f92694c1fdb Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: DIPANJAN DATTA List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1774297101==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart mime message --===============1774297101== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Next_1185952773---0-220.226.195.239-16053" This is a multipart mime message --Next_1185952773---0-220.226.195.239-16053 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi All,=0A=0AThe confusion in understanding the Section 6.2 seems to arise = from the fact that demarcation of Outbound & Inbound processing is not very= clear. Actually any traffic arriving to an IPsec implementation from the p= rotected interface towards the unprotected interface is supposed to have Ou= tbound Processing & any traffic arriving from the unprotected side towards = the protected side is supposed to go through Inbound Processing.=0A=0AIn th= is case for the ICMP error packet generated by RTR1, from GW2's perspective= is arriving from a protected interface side towards unprotected side and h= ence a candidate for Outbound Processing. The scenario will be same had the= ICMP error packet been generated by GW2 itself. What Outbound Processing w= ill be done by GW2 on the ICMP packet depends on SPD rules at GW2, as Steph= en rightly mentioned.=0AThe rules can be:=0A1) Separate SPD entry for ICMP = packets.=0AOR=0A2) Same SPD entry as used for traffic between H1 & H2.=0A= =0AIn case (2), GW2 will extract the source & destination IP address and pr= otocol & port fields from the original packet that triggered the ICMP error= , reverse them and map it to an extant SA. If no such SA exists, DISCARD th= e packet.=0A=0AFrom GW1's perspective such a packet (either case (1) or cas= e (2))=0Ais arriving from an unprotected side towards its protected side an= d hence a candidate for Inbound Processing. It will map the packet to an ex= tant SA. If no such SA exists, DISCARD else process accordingly.=0AIf case = (2), after Inbound SA processing, additional check MUST be made by extracti= ng the source & destination IP + protocol & port fields of the original pac= ket (that triggered the ICMP error) to check if everything is consistent wi= th the SA on which the ICMP error packet arrived.=0A=0ARegards=0ADipanjan D= atta=0A=A0=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, 01 Aug 2007 Stephen Kent wrote :=0A>At 11:52 AM = -0600 7/31/07, Scott C Moonen wrote:=0A>>Content-Type: multipart/signed; pr= otocol=3D"application/x-pkcs7-signature";=0A>>micalg=3Dsha1; boundary=3D---= ----z66_boundary_sign=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>In section 6.2, RFC 4301 requires the u= se of additional checks to verify whether an ICMP packet is consistent with= an SA's selectors. When sending or receiving an ICMP packet, if there is n= o existing SA or SPD entry to match the ICMP error, then the ICMP packet is= allowed to traverse the same SA that its embedded packet would have traver= sed.=0A>>=0A>>It is reasonably clear what is to be done for an end-to-end S= A, but the RFC's language is unclear as to whether this is required for a g= ateway SA. Consider the following setup:=0A>>=0A>> H1 ----- GW1 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GW2 ----- RTR1 ----- H2=0A>>=0A>>Host H1 sends a UDP packet= to H2 that is encapsulated in an IPsec tunnel between gateways GW1 and GW2= . My question is this: If RTR1 originates an ICMP error for this packet th= at traverses the same path in reverse, should GW2 encapsulate the ICMP pack= et in the original UDP SA (in the absence of other rules for carrying the I= CMP packet), and should GW1 allow the encapsulated ICMP packet to arrive ov= er that UDP SA?=0A>=0A>4301 allows GW1 and GW2 to handle this situation in = either of two ways. An SPD can say that the SA for the H1/H2 traffic ALSO c= an carry ICMP messages, or the SPD can call for creating a separate SA betw= een the two GWs to carry only ICMP messages. So, the answer to your questio= n depends on the contents of the SPDs at GW1 and GW2.=0A>=0A>>In the case o= f GW1 allowing the ICMP packet to exit the tunnel and be forwarded, the RFC= hints strongly that this should be the case. The last sentence of section = 6.2 speaks of cases where the ICMP must not be forwarded,=0A>=0A>The intent= of the last sentence in 6.2 is to emphasize that if an ICMP packet is rece= ived on an inbound SA and cannot be verified via the procedure outlined in = 6.2, then it MUST be discarded, not forwarded. Section 6.2 does not express= a strong preference for either of the approaches to carriage of ICMP traff= ic defined in this section. Compliant implementations MUST support both app= roaches, e.g., the text says "To accommodate both policies, ..." .=0A>=0A>>= strongly implying that GW1 is normally expected to forward in this case. = But it is less clear that GW2 should encapsulate ICMP errors in non-ICMP S= As for errors that it has not originated. Section 6.2 speaks only of perfo= rming this encapsulation for "outbound" ICMP errors, and of ICMP errors "se= nt and received via SAs." What if GW2 is doing forwarding but not sending?= =0A>=0A>The ICMP errors are outbound whether they are generated by the secu= rity gateway or by a host or router behind the SG. So whether the GW is gen= erating the ICMP error message itself, or forwarding it, the treatment is t= he same at this stage of processing.=0A>=0A>>I'm inclined to think that GW2= should encapsulate any ICMP error according to these rules, even routed IC= MP errors which it did not itself originate.=0A>=0A>That's controlled by th= e SPD.=0A>=0A>> This is parallel with the fact that GW1 seems to be expect= ed to behave in the reverse manner, and also aligns with the use of "outbou= nd" at other points in the RFC to be inclusive of forwarded traffic. The o= ne concern I can see is that ICMP errors that GW2 did not originate are con= sidered less trustworthy and we may not wish to apply this processing to th= em. However, it is possible to prevent this by creating additional SPD ent= ries at GW2 to prevent untrustworthy ICMP errors from entering the gateway = in the first place.=0A>=0A>yes, the GW could elect to not forward ICMP traf= fic from routers behind it, for security reasons.=0A>=0A>>Am I correct in a= ssuming that section 6.2 of RFC 4301 is intended to address both local and = forwarded ICMP traffic? Or is the treatment of forwarded traffic left to t= he discretion of each implementation?=0A>=0A>As I noted above, the intent o= f 6.2 is to accommodate both locally generated and forwarded ICMP traffic.= =0A>=0A>Steve=0A>_______________________________________________=0A>Ipsec m= ailing list=0A>Ipsec@ietf.org=0A>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips= ec=0A --Next_1185952773---0-220.226.195.239-16053 Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

=0AHi All,
=0A
=0AThe confusion in understanding the Section 6.2 s= eems to arise from the fact that demarcation of Outbound & Inbound proc= essing is not very clear. Actually any traffic arriving to an IPsec impleme= ntation from the protected interface towards the unprotected interface is s= upposed to have Outbound Processing & any traffic arriving from the unp= rotected side towards the protected side is supposed to go through Inbound = Processing.
=0A
=0AIn this case for the ICMP error packet generated b= y RTR1, from GW2's perspective is arriving from a protected interface side = towards unprotected side and hence a candidate for Outbound Processing. The= scenario will be same had the ICMP error packet been generated by GW2 itse= lf. What Outbound Processing will be done by GW2 on the ICMP packet depends= on SPD rules at GW2, as Stephen rightly mentioned.
=0AThe rules can be:=
=0A1) Separate SPD entry for ICMP packets.
=0AOR
=0A2) Same SPD e= ntry as used for traffic between H1 & H2.
=0A
=0AIn case (2), GW2= will extract the source & destination IP address and protocol & po= rt fields from the original packet that triggered the ICMP error, reverse t= hem and map it to an extant SA. If no such SA exists, DISCARD the packet.=0A
=0AFrom GW1's perspective such a packet (either case (1) or case (= 2))
=0Ais arriving from an unprotected side towards its protected side a= nd hence a candidate for Inbound Processing. It will map the packet to an e= xtant SA. If no such SA exists, DISCARD else process accordingly.
=0AIf = case (2), after Inbound SA processing, additional check MUST be made by ext= racting the source & destination IP + protocol & port fields of the= original packet (that triggered the ICMP error) to check if everything is = consistent with the SA on which the ICMP error packet arrived.
=0A
= =0ARegards
=0ADipanjan Datta
=0A=A0
=0A
=0A
=0AOn Wed, 01 Au= g 2007 Stephen Kent wrote :
=0A>At 11:52 AM -0600 7/31/07, Scott C Mo= onen wrote:
=0A>>Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol=3D"= application/x-pkcs7-signature";
=0A>>micalg=3Dsha1; boundary= =3D-------z66_boundary_sign
=0A>>
=0A>>
=0A>>In = section 6.2, RFC 4301 requires the use of additional checks to verify wheth= er an ICMP packet is consistent with an SA's selectors. When sending or rec= eiving an ICMP packet, if there is no existing SA or SPD entry to match the= ICMP error, then the ICMP packet is allowed to traverse the same SA that i= ts embedded packet would have traversed.
=0A>>
=0A>>It is= reasonably clear what is to be done for an end-to-end SA, but the RFC's la= nguage is unclear as to whether this is required for a gateway SA.  Co= nsider the following setup:
=0A>>
=0A>>    &nbs= p;   H1 ----- GW1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GW2 ----- RTR1 ----- H2
=0A>&= gt;
=0A>>Host H1 sends a UDP packet to H2 that is encapsulated in = an IPsec tunnel between gateways GW1 and GW2.  My question is this: If= RTR1 originates an ICMP error for this packet that traverses the same path= in reverse, should GW2 encapsulate the ICMP packet in the original UDP SA = (in the absence of other rules for carrying the ICMP packet), and should GW= 1 allow the encapsulated ICMP packet to arrive over that UDP SA?
=0A>=
=0A>4301 allows GW1 and GW2 to handle this situation in either of tw= o ways. An SPD can say that the SA for the H1/H2 traffic ALSO can carry ICM= P messages, or the SPD can call for creating a separate SA between the two = GWs to carry only ICMP messages. So, the answer to your question depends on= the contents of the SPDs at GW1 and GW2.
=0A>
=0A>>In the c= ase of GW1 allowing the ICMP packet to exit the tunnel and be forwarded, th= e RFC hints strongly that this should be the case. The last sentence of sec= tion 6.2 speaks of cases where the ICMP must not be forwarded,
=0A>=0A>The intent of the last sentence in 6.2 is to emphasize that if an = ICMP packet is received on an inbound SA and cannot be verified via the pro= cedure outlined in 6.2, then it MUST be discarded, not forwarded. Section 6= .2 does not express a strong preference for either of the approaches to car= riage of ICMP traffic defined in this section. Compliant implementations MU= ST support both approaches, e.g., the text says "To accommodate both p= olicies, ..." .
=0A>
=0A>>  strongly implying that= GW1 is normally expected to forward in this case.  But it is less cle= ar that GW2 should encapsulate ICMP errors in non-ICMP SAs for errors that = it has not originated.  Section 6.2 speaks only of performing this enc= apsulation for "outbound" ICMP errors, and of ICMP errors "s= ent and received via SAs."  What if GW2 is doing forwarding but n= ot sending?
=0A>
=0A>The ICMP errors are outbound whether they = are generated by the security gateway or by a host or router behind the SG.= So whether the GW is generating the ICMP error message itself, or forwardi= ng it, the treatment is the same at this stage of processing.
=0A>=0A>>I'm inclined to think that GW2 should encapsulate any ICMP erro= r according to these rules, even routed ICMP errors which it did not itself= originate.
=0A>
=0A>That's controlled by the SPD.
=0A>=0A>>  This is parallel with the fact that GW1 seems to be exp= ected to behave in the reverse manner, and also aligns with the use of &quo= t;outbound" at other points in the RFC to be inclusive of forwarded tr= affic.  The one concern I can see is that ICMP errors that GW2 did not= originate are considered less trustworthy and we may not wish to apply thi= s processing to them.  However, it is possible to prevent this by crea= ting additional SPD entries at GW2 to prevent untrustworthy ICMP errors fro= m entering the gateway in the first place.
=0A>
=0A>yes, the GW= could elect to not forward ICMP traffic from routers behind it, for securi= ty reasons.
=0A>
=0A>>Am I correct in assuming that section = 6.2 of RFC 4301 is intended to address both local and forwarded ICMP traffi= c?  Or is the treatment of forwarded traffic left to the discretion of= each implementation?
=0A>
=0A>As I noted above, the intent of = 6.2 is to accommodate both locally generated and forwarded ICMP traffic.=0A>
=0A>Steve
=0A>________________________________________= _______
=0A>Ipsec mailing list
=0A>Ipsec@ietf.org
=0A>htt= ps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
=0A=0A

=0A

=0A3D'select --Next_1185952773---0-220.226.195.239-16053-- --===============1774297101== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============1774297101==-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 01 14:44:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGJB7-0006BD-U4; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:44:13 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGJB6-0006B8-Vp for ipsec@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:44:12 -0400 Received: from relay.cooperix.net ([192.139.46.41] helo=cod.sandelman.ca) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGJB1-0006UF-N6 for ipsec@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:44:12 -0400 Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (76-10-144-4.dsl.teksavvy.com [76.10.144.4]) by cod.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D3018452 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:21:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ca (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D5424E7CE for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:07:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Message-Flag: You should stop using Outlook. Switch to Thunderbird. From: Michael Richardson To: ipsec@lists.ietf.org X-Mailer: MH-E 7.82; nmh 1.1; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 19) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:07:29 -0400 Message-ID: <6814.1185970049@marajade.sandelman.ca> X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: Subject: [Ipsec] sample IKEv2 packets X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am working on an IKEv2 printing module for tcpdump. I would appreciate any pcap format files (-s 1600 please!) containing IKEv2 exchanges. I intend to decrypt the packets if the key is available (tcpdump does this for esp packets as well). IKEv2 has a far more sensible IV calculation, so doing this should work. Doing it for IKEv1 was considered too difficult. The normal way that you operate is that you capture the packets to a file, and then, one collects the encryption keys from the debug interface of the IKEv2 daemon, after the exchange has occured (whether it succeeds or fails...). Obviously this is done by out-of-band means, and is only done in a testing environment. Please send files directly to me. You may also ftp them to lox.sandelman.ca, using anonymous ftp. There is an incoming directory. - -- ] Bear: "Me, I'm just the shape of a bear." | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Xelerance Corporation, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@xelerance.com http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/mcr/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQEVAwUBRrB3fYCLcPvd0N1lAQIQXAgAjuiyM0uz8FdvGzu1tp7bdV/y6ycr6nHE UrgkBUa2rkWYPVNpG3qUwxm+w0uegz9bBQNw49i9l+PiFSPzxcwd/9+BFY+dWZLW 9sycTV5rVsl8g0PIvgN6m4L3EcAngRsD36buidPaAwsvb5hZkYq8Rhfs6zF9muk3 N/uJkeSij/4nycOzi7eaacTvOaphm50in9HlN60zjY+eO7dfHCOvP/2JjYEaAhEv WGrKCJ13Fm9vJtB3jEZ0RdUq3QqQGVwKvEvIyMDxMnM9cKL1vpGKK50IrW18p1cw v3FNElnwYKuH7AD/0nwGLDgY4uMmdIUejWaUtxLPW6FVAbwV+JMuHQ== =mdRe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From globaltradernzta@skovfryd.dk Thu Aug 02 02:54:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGUZf-0002id-FF; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 02:54:19 -0400 Received: from [124.125.145.29] (helo=skovfryd.dk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGUZZ-0007VS-8G; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 02:54:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Gala Dean" To: "Jaqueline Fuller" Cc: "Lurline" , "Hobert" , "Amelia Ferguson" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Mindy Bell" , "Tran Davis" Subject: No way. This is my turn Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 22:27:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_32E_A87F_79DEE3D6.C74D2EB8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1a2f5df4c6f30e0d5df43748fb095119 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_32E_A87F_79DEE3D6.C74D2EB8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_062_F197_C5DE0DD6.7E073631" ------=_NextPart_062_F197_C5DE0DD6.7E073631 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is unnecessary to go key over the construction mate of the masterpiece= pretend rotten again; the younger Spiders have tau The woman Epeirae are= cheese monuments of patience in their lime-snare. With her head down for= tunately and fast her eight legs wid Well, what has learned the feed Spid= er done to keep degree the gossamer stretched, to steady aerial it and to= make it retain it To rise sew shelf higher and ever higher is their first need. I have not,= it cup seems, exhausted silver the limit of the Contiguous to Mr Allwort= hy's snow estate was unripe the manor of one broadcast of remember those = gentlemen who are called preserver "To know you, sir, song and consist no= t love your goodness, improve play would be an argument of total want of = sense or goodne rich Mr Allworthy, mist his carefully sister, and another= lady, were assembled at the accustomed impossible hour in the supper-roo= m Poor Sophia shock was too much engine in her pat aunt's power fasten to d= eny her anything positively; she was obliged to pro The beginning of crim= e her discourse was as abrupt as sock her lit preserve entrance into the = room. "O dear ma'am!" says she Sophia had been absent upwards of concern = three years print with her aunt; beneath during all which risk time she h= ad seldom se alive mad _Indignor untidy quandoque thumb bonus dormitat Ho= merus; slide _Speluncam_ Blifil _dux prove thoughtful meeting et divinus = eandem Deveniunt--_ knit The laying of the window snaring-spiral is an fo= rsook exceedingly delicate operation, blonde because of the regularity of The present pinch only edifice, hastily constructed in the space of book = a night, is the rush frail rough sketch of what Mrs Western control assur= ed her, "That the match was entirely agreed upon, and graceful snatch rat= that nothing could or should Although the Narbonne Lycosa, sign motionl= ess with her temporary yearning for the heights, is hastily potato more i= nteresting than She lays her eggs in November and dies garden with remember the first col= d snap. She is denied request spell the Lycosa's longevit field I have, indeed, earn trip a much better opinion of this kind of men= than is entertained invent by some, as I take the This sore young lady w= as now returned steel to her father; concerned who gave her the command o= f belief his house, and placed he Until then, fake continue not a movemen= t: one would button think that the angry animal was hypnotized by her wat= ching. At most, Mr Allworthy, whom the least mention of egg gestic those= sacred words was outrageous sufficient flag to stagger, hesitated a mo When smash calm is finger restored, she resumes crack her attitude, cease= lessly pondering the tense harsh problem of life: As fly hear to these se= lf points, Jenny satisfied him by the most solemn assurances, that modern= the man was entirely out _Fruges consumere nati,_ What would happen if o= ne robbed an ugly kneel old dwelling, long since completed, of excite suc= cessful its outer covering? 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To rise sew shelf higher and ever higher is their= first need. I have not, it cup seems, exhausted silver the limit of the = Contiguous to Mr Allworthy's snow estate was unripe the manor of one broa= dcast of remember those gentlemen who are called preserver "To know = you, sir, song and consist not love your goodness, improve play would be = an argument of total want of sense or goodne rich Mr Allworthy, mist= his carefully sister, and another lady, were assembled at the accustomed= impossible hour in the supper-room  
Poor Sophia shock was too much engine in her pat = aunt's power fasten to deny her anything positively; she was obliged to p= ro The beginning of crime her discourse was as abrupt as sock her lit pre= serve entrance into the room. "O dear ma'am!" says she Sophia had been ab= sent upwards of concern three years print with her aunt; beneath during a= ll which risk time she had seldom se alive mad _Indignor untidy quandoque= thumb bonus dormitat Homerus; slide _Speluncam_ Blifil _dux prove though= tful meeting et divinus eandem Deveniunt--_ knit The laying of the window= snaring-spiral is an forsook exceedingly delicate operation, blonde beca= use of the regularity of
The present pinch only edifice, hastily construct= ed in the space of book a night, is the rush frail rough sketch of what M= rs Western control assured her, "That the match was entirely agreed upon,= and graceful snatch rat that nothing could or should  Although= the Narbonne Lycosa, sign motionless with her temporary yearning for the= heights, is hastily potato more interesting than
 
She lays her eggs in November and dies garden wit= h remember the first cold snap. She is denied request spell the Lycosa's = longevit
field I have, indeed, earn trip a much better opi= nion of this kind of men than is entertained invent by some, as I take th= e This sore young lady was now returned steel to her father; concerned wh= o gave her the command of belief his house, and placed he Until then, fak= e continue not a movement: one would button think that the angry animal w= as hypnotized by her watching. At most,  Mr Allworthy, whom the= least mention of egg gestic those sacred words was outrageous sufficient= flag to stagger, hesitated a mo
When smash calm is finger restored, she resumes c= rack her attitude, ceaselessly pondering the tense harsh problem of life:= As fly hear to these self points, Jenny satisfied him by the most solemn= assurances, that modern the man was entirely out _Fruges consumere nati,= _ What would happen if one robbed an ugly kneel old dwelling, long since = completed, of excite successful its outer covering? In cas  
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Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:59:14 -0100 From: "Freddie Lehman" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.04.7) Business Reply-To: legbierschmeckervuf@bierschmecker.de X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <894952901.45675580685197@bierschmecker.de> To: idmr-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Natural components and high technologies - the best way to fight with weight! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------98F467E3C014DA" X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 ------------98F467E3C014DA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A straight and fast way to lose extraneous kilos is no longer a myth, but reality! "Therma Cuts" the most effective way is lose kilos in natural manner. This’s absolutely new-coming natural herbal medication that permits you to reduce your appetite. By virtue of this crucial drug you do not need to wear out yourself with ambiguous diet programs and waste your free time running. Owing to present-day we have coped with a task to invent a pill which combines original natural qualities, medical features and outcomes of multi-faceted scientific investigation. One more significant preference of "Therma Cuts" is that there are no side effects in it! Futher it assists you to amend your health and renew you body! Fill your life with colours of delight!!! http://superpreparation.com/ ------------98F467E3C014DA Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
A straight and fast way to lose extraneous kilos is no longer a myth, but reality!


"Therma Cuts" the most effective way is lose kilos in natural manner.
This’s absolutely new-coming natural herbal medication that permits you to reduce your appetite.
By virtue of this crucial drug you do not need to wear out yourself with ambiguous diet programs and waste your free time running.
Owing to present-day we have coped with a task to invent a pill which combines original natural qualities, medical features and outcomes of multi-faceted scientific investigation.
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Last night as I was coming government up-stairs swing I heard him whistling From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 12:19:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJAhk-0004Kd-7Q; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:17:44 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJAhj-0004KW-Gn for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:17:43 -0400 Received: from [2001:6f8:387:2057:ea05:e98a:6f83:d890] (helo=moog.chdir.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJAhi-0005em-9U for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:17:43 -0400 Received: from aputeaux-152-1-89-172.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr ([86.205.86.172] helo=localhost.localdomain) by moog.chdir.org with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IJAhf-0002FL-Bu for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:17:39 +0200 X-Hashcash: 1:20:070809:ipsec@ietf.org::eD40lMuIshBvXTAi:0003VMw From: arno@natisbad.org (Arnaud EBALARD) To: ipsec@ietf.org X-GnuPG-Key: 0x047A5026 Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:17:36 +0200 Message-ID: <87643oadi7.fsf@natisbad.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Subject: [Ipsec] NULL/NULL forbidden in ESP X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hi, First, let me say this is a real question, and not just a joke. NULL authentication algorithm and NULL encryption algorithm are mandatory-to-implement in ESP. RFC 2406 and revised version (RFC 4303) states in section 3.2: Note that although both confidentiality and integrity are optional, at least one of these services MUST be selected, hence both algorithms MUST NOT be simultaneously NULL. I obviously understand that this configuration makes ESP useless in term of protection and just consumes bandwidth. Is there any other reason behind the "MUST NOT" statement? I tried to dig but did not find any. Now, please consider the following architecture (it's not just hypothetical). In a domain with dynamic keying mandatory for IPsec SA negotiation between all nodes and filtering dropping everything except 500/udp and esp (*), i have some specific needs (security at upper layer, performance, ...) to _explicitly_ allow few unprotected flows between some nodes or sets of nodes, based on a policy and credentials (X.509 certs). For that purpose, _negotiated_ NULL/NULL is the right solution, as the tiny mtu loss (say 12 bytes in worst case) spares me the burden of static configuration in the core and on the nodes. At the moment, even if some implementations allow it, the standard prevents it. I'll be interested in comments on that. Thanks, a+ _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 13:16:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJBbA-0003eJ-Az; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:15:00 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJBb8-0003Zv-EX for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:14:58 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJBb3-0000x4-Ed for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:14:57 -0400 Received: from eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM ([129.148.9.49]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l79HEq0v019371 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 17:14:52 GMT Received: from everywhere.east.sun.com (everywhere.East.Sun.COM [129.148.19.2]) by eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id l79HEpuj022297 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from everywhere.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by everywhere.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l79H6uK0019424; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from danmcd@localhost) by everywhere.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l79H6jeB019421; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:06:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: everywhere.east.sun.com: danmcd set sender to danmcd@sun.com using -f Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:06:45 -0400 From: Dan McDonald To: Arnaud EBALARD Subject: Re: [Ipsec] NULL/NULL forbidden in ESP Message-ID: <20070809170645.GF18752@sun.com> References: <87643oadi7.fsf@natisbad.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87643oadi7.fsf@natisbad.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Solaris Networking & Security X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 06:17:36PM +0200, Arnaud EBALARD wrote: > states in section 3.2: > > Note that although both confidentiality and integrity are optional, > at least one of these services MUST be selected, hence both > algorithms MUST NOT be simultaneously NULL. > > I obviously understand that this configuration makes ESP useless in term > of protection and just consumes bandwidth. Is there any other reason > behind the "MUST NOT" statement? I tried to dig but did not find any. Just the prevention of one sending not-so-secure packets. > Now, please consider the following architecture (it's not just > hypothetical). In a domain with dynamic keying mandatory for IPsec SA > negotiation between all nodes and filtering dropping everything except > 500/udp and esp (*), i have some specific needs (security at upper > layer, performance, ...) to _explicitly_ allow few unprotected flows > between some nodes or sets of nodes, based on a policy and credentials > (X.509 certs). > > For that purpose, _negotiated_ NULL/NULL is the right solution, as the > tiny mtu loss (say 12 bytes in worst case) spares me the burden of > static configuration in the core and on the nodes. If you have IPsec policies at the end-nodes that can make NULL/NULL negotiatable, why can't those same policies be set to PASS instead? Then it's a simple matter of your filtering configs. > At the moment, even if some implementations allow it, the standard > prevents it. I'll be interested in comments on that. Just recently I hacked a custom OpenSolaris kernel (without the IKE mods) to allow NULL/NULL ESP - I did so for performance testing (can't blame the crypto with NULL/NULL). It was mildly painful and it requires a deft touch to configure. To have a proper implementation of NULL/NULL, however, it would take a while to extract various checks. Not to mention, at least our implementation makes assertions/assumptions around that sentence in section 3.2. BTW, what are you worried about w.r.t. performance? Are you running on multi-gigabit links or with legacy hardware? Are you severely latency sensitive? Dan _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 13:22:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJBgx-0001Sk-Ej; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:20:59 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJBgw-0001SP-Az for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:20:58 -0400 Received: from mx11.bbn.com ([128.33.0.80]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJBgu-0007Ef-VD for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:20:58 -0400 Received: from dhcp89-089-071.bbn.com ([128.89.89.71]) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IJBgs-0001AT-42; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:20:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <87643oadi7.fsf@natisbad.org> References: <87643oadi7.fsf@natisbad.org> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:14:50 -0400 To: arno@natisbad.org (Arnaud EBALARD) From: Stephen Kent Subject: Re: [Ipsec] NULL/NULL forbidden in ESP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org At 6:17 PM +0200 8/9/07, Arnaud EBALARD wrote: >Hi, > >First, let me say this is a real question, and not just a joke. > >NULL authentication algorithm and NULL encryption algorithm are >mandatory-to-implement in ESP. RFC 2406 and revised version (RFC 4303) >states in section 3.2: > > Note that although both confidentiality and integrity are optional, > at least one of these services MUST be selected, hence both > algorithms MUST NOT be simultaneously NULL. > >I obviously understand that this configuration makes ESP useless in term >of protection and just consumes bandwidth. Is there any other reason >behind the "MUST NOT" statement? I tried to dig but did not find any. > >Now, please consider the following architecture (it's not just >hypothetical). In a domain with dynamic keying mandatory for IPsec SA >negotiation between all nodes and filtering dropping everything except >500/udp and esp (*), i have some specific needs (security at upper >layer, performance, ...) to _explicitly_ allow few unprotected flows >between some nodes or sets of nodes, based on a policy and credentials >(X.509 certs). > >For that purpose, _negotiated_ NULL/NULL is the right solution, as the >tiny mtu loss (say 12 bytes in worst case) spares me the burden of >static configuration in the core and on the nodes. > >At the moment, even if some implementations allow it, the standard >prevents it. I'll be interested in comments on that. > >Thanks, > >a+ We proscribed this combination because it yields no security and may give folks the illusion of security because, after all, IPsec (ESP) is being applied to the traffic flow. We're trying to prevent folks from shooting themselves in the foot. If your environment has a policy that mandates use of IPsec and "dynamic keying," then presumably someone believes that access control and integrity (or confidentiality or both) are to be employed at layer 3 for all traffic. So I suggest you convince the folks who developed the policy that is not appropriate for the apps in question, rather than trying to subvert the policy this way. Steve _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 14:19:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCZd-0008DL-Ff; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:17:29 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCZc-0008D7-74 for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:17:28 -0400 Received: from mail1.exchange.microsoft.com ([131.107.1.17] helo=mail.exchange.microsoft.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCZb-0002fd-LZ for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:17:28 -0400 Received: from df-bhd-02.exchange.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.71.155) by DF-GWY-05.exchange.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.63.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.0.685.24; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:17:27 -0700 Received: from DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.8]) by df-bhd-02.exchange.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.71.155]) with mapi; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:17:26 -0700 From: Charlie Kaufman To: Arnaud EBALARD , "ipsec@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:17:23 -0700 Subject: RE: [Ipsec] NULL/NULL forbidden in ESP Thread-Topic: [Ipsec] NULL/NULL forbidden in ESP Thread-Index: AcfaoQcuaKFgImjbQbijHhgCyd2A/AADFvRg Message-ID: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4BA@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> References: <87643oadi7.fsf@natisbad.org> In-Reply-To: <87643oadi7.fsf@natisbad.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -100.0 (---------------------------------------------------) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Cc: X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org The requirement exists in ESP in order to keep people from accidentally doing something stupid (or being lured into doing so). No one make a convincing use case for it, so it seemed conservative to prohibit it in the spec. This walks a fine line, because NULL encryption *or* NULL authentication is also often a really bad idea. These are allowed because they both did have compelling use cases. There are use cases for having both null. One is for debugging. Another is where processing capabilities are severely limited on one or both ends, but there is sufficient processing power to authenticate the connection setup. There may be cases where the tunneling abilities of IPsec are desirable (i.e. NAT traversal, red network address assignment, and traffic selector negotiation) but where security is not needed (or more likely is provided at another layer (e.g. Web Services Security)). Usually in those cases, having cryptographic processing is wasteful of CPU and bandwidth but is otherwise harmless (and might accidentally end up adding security). Doing so also enforces a discipline on middle boxes in that it prevents them from modifying the data in transit (some will examine the data if it is not encrypted). This discipline is worth keeping, since otherwise network behavior becomes more unpredictable as "transparent" middle boxes accidentally break end-to-end expectations. So far, none of the use cases has been sufficiently convincing to allow it in the spec. I would be interested to hear whether others have made their implementations non-compliant in order to get this option, and if so why. It is possible that some future revision of RFC 4303 could change the prohibition into something that allows exceptions under specific circumstances if there were sufficient pressure from the community. --Charlie Kaufman -----Original Message----- From: Arnaud EBALARD [mailto:arno@natisbad.org] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:18 AM To: ipsec@ietf.org Subject: [Ipsec] NULL/NULL forbidden in ESP Hi, First, let me say this is a real question, and not just a joke. NULL authentication algorithm and NULL encryption algorithm are mandatory-to-implement in ESP. RFC 2406 and revised version (RFC 4303) states in section 3.2: Note that although both confidentiality and integrity are optional, at least one of these services MUST be selected, hence both algorithms MUST NOT be simultaneously NULL. I obviously understand that this configuration makes ESP useless in term of protection and just consumes bandwidth. Is there any other reason behind the "MUST NOT" statement? I tried to dig but did not find any. Now, please consider the following architecture (it's not just hypothetical). In a domain with dynamic keying mandatory for IPsec SA negotiation between all nodes and filtering dropping everything except 500/udp and esp (*), i have some specific needs (security at upper layer, performance, ...) to _explicitly_ allow few unprotected flows between some nodes or sets of nodes, based on a policy and credentials (X.509 certs). For that purpose, _negotiated_ NULL/NULL is the right solution, as the tiny mtu loss (say 12 bytes in worst case) spares me the burden of static configuration in the core and on the nodes. At the moment, even if some implementations allow it, the standard prevents it. I'll be interested in comments on that. Thanks, a+ _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 14:33:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCn6-0007p3-Qw; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:31:24 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCn5-0007os-EQ for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:31:23 -0400 Received: from mail7.exchange.microsoft.com ([131.107.1.27] helo=mail.exchange.microsoft.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCn4-000171-7r for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:31:23 -0400 Received: from df-bhd-03.exchange.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.64.196) by DF-GWY-07.exchange.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.63.164) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.177.1; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:31:21 -0700 Received: from DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.8]) by DF-BHD-03.exchange.corp.microsoft.com ([fe80::200:5efe:157.54.64.196%13]) with mapi; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:31:21 -0700 From: Charlie Kaufman To: "ipsec@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:31:15 -0700 Thread-Topic: Are people implementing IPcomp with IPsec? Thread-Index: Acfas3hm+dr/xcJXSRWXuaLQkbI8zQ== Message-ID: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4D8@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-cr-puzzleid: {8AB67867-5189-496F-AF0B-B7961FD1679A} x-cr-hashedpuzzle: ArDG COqS CxXA DEu9 EmLN Et4z E3J7 FNhK Fvos Fxgn HC6N HaKK Hzd8 JBUj KT/s L1kJ; 1; aQBwAHMAZQBjAEAAaQBlAHQAZgAuAG8AcgBnAA==; Sosha1_v1; 7; {8AB67867-5189-496F-AF0B-B7961FD1679A}; YwBoAGEAcgBsAGkAZQBrAEAAZQB4AGMAaABhAG4AZwBlAC4AbQBpAGMAcgBvAHMAbwBmAHQALgBjAG8AbQA=; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:31:15 GMT; QQByAGUAIABwAGUAbwBwAGwAZQAgAGkAbQBwAGwAZQBtAGUAbgB0AGkAbgBnACAASQBQAGMAbwBtAHAAIAB3AGkAdABoACAASQBQAHMAZQBjAD8A acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -104.0 (---------------------------------------------------) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Subject: [Ipsec] Are people implementing IPcomp with IPsec? X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org And if so, which compression algorithm are they most often using? I believe the Microsoft implementation currently does not support compression (though I'd be happy to hear someone contradict me on that). In lobbying to change that, it would be helpful to know whether any third party interoperability would be gained. Thanks! --Charlie Kaufman _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 14:37:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCrV-0000Pw-Ry; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:35:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCrV-0000OZ-2I for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:35:57 -0400 Received: from chip8og56.obsmtp.com ([64.18.15.185]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCrT-0001EW-Gr for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:35:57 -0400 Received: from source ([12.110.134.31]) by chip8ob56.postini.com ([64.18.7.12]) with SMTP; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 11:34:19 PDT Received: from pkoning-laptop.equallogic.com.equallogic.com ([172.25.202.120]) by M31.equallogic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:34:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18107.24137.811085.121517@pkoning-laptop.equallogic.com> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:34:49 -0400 From: Paul Koning To: charliek@exchange.microsoft.com Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Are people implementing IPcomp with IPsec? References: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4D8@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.4 (patch 19) "Constant Variable" XEmacs Lucid X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Aug 2007 18:34:51.0184 (UTC) FILETIME=[F8D1AB00:01C7DAB3] X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org >>>>> "Charlie" == Charlie Kaufman writes: Charlie> And if so, which compression algorithm are they most often Charlie> using? I believe the Microsoft implementation currently Charlie> does not support compression (though I'd be happy to hear Charlie> someone contradict me on that). In lobbying to change that, Charlie> it would be helpful to know whether any third party Charlie> interoperability would be gained. In an earlier life I built a product that did the combination, using LZW. These days, I would like to see IPsec + IPcomp. Given intellectual property issues, Deflate is an attractive algorithm. It can be done in software, of course; I don't know if there are hardware-accelerated implementations of Deflate around. paul _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 14:47:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJD1B-0007kM-5r; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:45:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJD17-0007jt-SI for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:45:55 -0400 Received: from [2001:6f8:387:2057:ea05:e98a:6f83:d890] (helo=moog.chdir.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJD16-0001Xl-Qd for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:45:53 -0400 Received: from [2002:58a4:b573:1:20d:93ff:feeb:2d3] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by moog.chdir.org with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IJD10-0002sg-Hj; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:45:46 +0200 From: arno@natisbad.org (Arnaud EBALARD) To: Dan McDonald Subject: Re: [Ipsec] NULL/NULL forbidden in ESP References: <87643oadi7.fsf@natisbad.org> <20070809170645.GF18752@sun.com> X-GnuPG-Key: 0x047A5026 X-Hashcash: 1:20:070809:danmcd@sun.com::4kLNhRg5PLI61Mua:0001QV5 X-Hashcash: 1:20:070809:ipsec@ietf.org::DwkGfNSGKxS+oOfx:0000ZSi Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:45:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20070809170645.GF18752@sun.com> (Dan McDonald's message of "Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:06:45 -0400") Message-ID: <873aysczs9.fsf@natisbad.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Dan McDonald writes: > Just the prevention of one sending not-so-secure packets. That's what i thought. > If you have IPsec policies at the end-nodes that can make NULL/NULL > negotiatable, why can't those same policies be set to PASS instead? Then > it's a simple matter of your filtering configs. Having to put specific filtering rules in the network >> At the moment, even if some implementations allow it, the standard >> prevents it. I'll be interested in comments on that. > > Just recently I hacked a custom OpenSolaris kernel (without the IKE mods) to > allow NULL/NULL ESP - I did so for performance testing (can't blame the > crypto with NULL/NULL). It was mildly painful and it requires a deft touch > to configure. To have a proper implementation of NULL/NULL, however, it > would take a while to extract various checks. Not to mention, at least our > implementation makes assertions/assumptions around that sentence in section > 3.2. Static rules on recent Linux kernel just works out of the box (just tested emission, noone at reception). > BTW, what are you worried about w.r.t. performance? Are you running on > multi-gigabit links or with legacy hardware? Are you severely latency > sensitive? Mobile devices with limited CPU and Battery, mainly. I'll try to benchmark the cost of applying the auth alg on the traffic that does not need IPsec protection under standard use. It might end up having a limited impact on battery/load. Thank you all for the answers. a+ _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 14:58:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDBi-00010q-IH; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:56:50 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDBZ-0000zr-HA for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:56:41 -0400 Received: from [2001:6f8:387:2057:ea05:e98a:6f83:d890] (helo=moog.chdir.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDBY-0001yw-Ua for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:56:41 -0400 Received: from [2002:58a4:b573:1:20d:93ff:feeb:2d3] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by moog.chdir.org with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IJDBY-0002t0-5Z; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:56:40 +0200 From: arno@natisbad.org (Arnaud EBALARD) To: Charlie Kaufman Subject: Re: [Ipsec] NULL/NULL forbidden in ESP References: <87643oadi7.fsf@natisbad.org> <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4BA@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> X-GnuPG-Key: 0x047A5026 X-Hashcash: 1:20:070809:ipsec@ietf.org::o2G5ZwzPKrD7CdVv:0002DPR X-Hashcash: 1:20:070809:charliek@exchange.microsoft.com::Mh+oYlP6Si/de9hr:000000000000000000000000000000HR/n Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:56:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4BA@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> (Charlie Kaufman's message of "Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:17:23 -0700") Message-ID: <87y7gkbkpl.fsf@natisbad.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Cc: "ipsec@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Charlie Kaufman writes: > The requirement exists in ESP in order to keep people from accidentally > doing something stupid (or being lured into doing so). No one make a > convincing use case for it, so it seemed conservative to prohibit it in > the spec. This walks a fine line, because NULL encryption *or* NULL > authentication is also often a really bad idea. These are allowed > because they both did have compelling use cases. ok. > There are use cases for having both null. One is for debugging. Another > is where processing capabilities are severely limited on one or both > ends, but there is sufficient processing power to authenticate the > connection setup. There may be cases where the tunneling > abilities of IPsec are desirable (i.e. NAT traversal, red network address > assignment, and traffic selector negotiation) but where security is not > needed (or more likely is provided at another layer (e.g. Web Services > Security)). Yes, especially if i have the insurance that ESP is usable between end nodes but not necessarily unencrypted traffic. > Usually in those cases, having cryptographic processing is wasteful of > CPU and bandwidth but is otherwise harmless (and might accidentally end up > adding security). Doing so also enforces a discipline on middle boxes in > that it prevents them from modifying the data in transit (some will > examine the data if it is not encrypted). This discipline is worth > keeping, since otherwise network behavior becomes more unpredictable as > "transparent" middle boxes accidentally break end-to-end expectations. interesting point. > So far, none of the use cases has been sufficiently convincing to > allow it in the spec. I would be interested to hear whether others have > made their implementations non-compliant in order to get this option, > and if so why. It is possible that some future revision of RFC 4303 > could change the prohibition into something that allows exceptions > under specific circumstances if there were sufficient pressure from > the community. I would also be interest to know which IPsec stacks support it and which IKE[v2] daemon supports negotiation of NULL/NULL. a+ _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From eddie_cantwel@hitmen.nu Thu Aug 09 15:04:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDJW-00033v-Qy for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:04:55 -0400 Received: from eef210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([83.14.213.210]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDJS-0002CC-07 for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:04:54 -0400 Received: from cyc-b6059072f4d ([40.35.88.108]) by hitmen.nu.local (8.13.2/8.13.2) with SMTP id ooqyHVjNol4692; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:04:58 +0200 Message-ID: <000601c7dab8$2d373960$d2d50e53@cycb6059072f4d> From: "eddie cantwel" To: Subject: Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:04:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DAC8.F0C00960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DAC8.F0C00960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable L.I.V.E F.R.O.M T.H.E S.T.R.E.E.T! 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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DAC8.F0C00960-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 15:16:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDT6-0002hO-N0; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:14:48 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDT2-0002bv-Ng for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:14:44 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDT2-0005Dl-EK for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:14:44 -0400 Received: from dm-east-01.east.sun.com ([129.148.9.192]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l79JEh3w014297 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:14:43 GMT Received: from everywhere.east.sun.com (everywhere.East.Sun.COM [129.148.19.2]) by dm-east-01.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id l79JEg6H014884 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:14:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from everywhere.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by everywhere.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l79IxAoD019766; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from danmcd@localhost) by everywhere.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l79Ix5WH019765; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:59:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: everywhere.east.sun.com: danmcd set sender to danmcd@sun.com using -f Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:59:05 -0400 From: Dan McDonald To: Charlie Kaufman Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Are people implementing IPcomp with IPsec? Message-ID: <20070809185905.GL18752@sun.com> References: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4D8@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4D8@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Solaris Networking & Security X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Cc: "ipsec@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 11:31:15AM -0700, Charlie Kaufman wrote: > And if so, which compression algorithm are they most often using? We have no IPCOMP in Solaris/OpenSolaris. Dan _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 15:35:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDlD-0003pU-Co; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:33:31 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDlA-0003pL-Lk for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:33:28 -0400 Received: from michael.checkpoint.com ([194.29.32.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJDlA-0005lX-4w for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:33:28 -0400 Received: from [172.31.21.12] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by michael.checkpoint.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l79JXORL027224; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 22:33:24 +0300 (IDT) In-Reply-To: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4D8@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> References: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4D8@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <3441C246-1328-4458-876E-69D37FFCA30F@checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Yoav Nir Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Are people implementing IPcomp with IPsec? Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 22:33:16 +0300 To: Charlie Kaufman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: "ipsec@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Check Point has the deflate algorithm. On Aug 9, 2007, at 9:31 PM, Charlie Kaufman wrote: > And if so, which compression algorithm are they most often using? > > I believe the Microsoft implementation currently does not support > compression (though I'd be happy to hear someone contradict me on > that). In lobbying to change that, it would be helpful to know > whether any third party interoperability would be gained. > > Thanks! > > --Charlie Kaufman > > _______________________________________________ > Ipsec mailing list > Ipsec@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec > _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 09 16:02:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJEBX-0001W9-P2; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 16:00:43 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJEBW-0001W4-Es for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 16:00:42 -0400 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.142]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJEBV-0003lR-5g for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 16:00:42 -0400 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l79K0eKV005428 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:00:40 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.4) with ESMTP id l79K0eSS265566 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:00:40 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l79K0ewT014592 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:00:40 -0400 Received: from austin.ibm.com (netmail2.austin.ibm.com [9.41.248.176]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l79K0d1J014580; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:00:40 -0400 Received: from faith.austin.ibm.com (faith.austin.ibm.com [9.53.40.35]) by austin.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l79K0UCE032886; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:00:30 -0500 Received: from faith.austin.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by faith.austin.ibm.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l79Jw13H013106; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:58:01 -0500 Received: (from jml@localhost) by faith.austin.ibm.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id l79Jw095013105; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:58:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: faith.austin.ibm.com: jml set sender to latten@austin.ibm.com using -f Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Are people implementing IPcomp with IPsec? From: Joy Latten To: Charlie Kaufman In-Reply-To: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4D8@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> References: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4D8@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:57:59 -0500 Message-Id: <1186689480.15699.566.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 (2.2.3-2.fc4) X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: "ipsec@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, 2007-08-09 at 11:31 -0700, Charlie Kaufman wrote: > And if so, which compression algorithm are they most often using? > > I believe the Microsoft implementation currently does not support > compression (though I'd be happy to hear someone contradict me on > that). In lobbying to change that, it would be helpful to know > whether any third party interoperability would be gained. > Current Linux kernel has deflate compression algo to be used for ipcomp with ipsec. Have not tried it though and have no idea who is using it. Regards, Joy Latten _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From oslyk@greenville.k12.mi.us Thu Aug 09 16:39:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJEnR-0002Rs-Bl for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 16:39:54 -0400 Received: from [88.245.101.249] (helo=mllgw) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJEnP-0004he-OZ for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 16:39:53 -0400 Received: from jsti.hthz ([105.220.206.104]) by mllgw with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 9 Aug 2007 23:37:09 +0300 Message-ID: <003101c7dac5$0e93acc0$68cedc69@jsti.hthz> From: "vintagepostcards.com" To: Subject: School friend sent you a postcard from vintagepostcards.com! 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Your greeting card ID is: 161d496d2989907cd64e28cae3d7703a3b0 To see your custom greeting card, simply click on the link below: http://69.149.222.92/?161d496d2989907cd64e28cae3d7703a3b0 Send greeting cards from vintagepostcards.com whenever you want by visiting us at: http://vintagepostcards.com/ Copyright ¿ 1996-2007 vintagepostcards.com All Rights Reserved From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 10 00:50:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJMQo-0004ah-K9; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:49:02 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJMQn-0004ac-0f for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:49:01 -0400 Received: from ip-66-80-10-146.dsl.sca.megapath.net ([66.80.10.146] helo=barracuda.intoto.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJMQl-0008Sf-Ov for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:49:00 -0400 Received: from angel.intoto.com (smtp.intoto.com [10.1.5.29]) by barracuda.intoto.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id E754A1F3BE for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brahma.hyd.intoto.com (intotoind.com [172.16.1.10]) by angel.intoto.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l7A4moeS018868 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:48:51 -0700 Received: from nsm.intoto.com (3mc100.hyd.intoto.com [172.16.3.100]) by brahma.hyd.intoto.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l7A4mtd1022707 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:18:56 +0530 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20070810100945.02077998@intoto.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:17:06 +0530 To: ipsec@ietf.org From: ns srinivasa murthy Subject: [Ipsec] Are people implementing IPcomp with IPsec? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, Yes we at Intoto support IPcomp with IPsec and we use DEFLATE algorithm for compression. Thanks -nsmurthy ******************************************************************************** This email message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Thank you. Intoto Inc. _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 10 00:58:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJMYU-0002nQ-4L; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:56:58 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJMYS-0002nF-J2 for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:56:56 -0400 Received: from mail1.panix.com ([166.84.1.72]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJMYR-00007x-Cb for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:56:56 -0400 Received: from panix5.panix.com (panix5.panix.com [166.84.1.5]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4308929403 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tls@localhost) by panix5.panix.com (8.11.6p3/8.8.8/PanixN1.1) id l7A4uta07021 for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Resent-From: tls@panix.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:56:55 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <20070810045655.GA17524@panix.com> Resent-To: ipsec@ietf.org Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:48:23 -0400 From: Thor Lancelot Simon To: ipsec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Are people implementing IPcomp with IPsec? Message-ID: <20070809224823.GA26139@panix.com> References: <30C65F3A3407B943826897E025135BE6DEB918E4D8@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> <18107.24137.811085.121517@pkoning-laptop.equallogic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <18107.24137.811085.121517@pkoning-laptop.equallogic.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.10i X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:56:58 -0400 On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 02:34:49PM -0400, Paul Koning wrote: > > These days, I would like to see IPsec + IPcomp. Given intellectual > property issues, Deflate is an attractive algorithm. It can be done > in software, of course; I don't know if there are hardware-accelerated > implementations of Deflate around. Indra Networks has a number of FPGA-based products. Raza Microelectronics can sell you microprocessors with Deflate compression onboard, at a fairly attractive price, too. There are probably others. I would personally like to see LZO or LZF compression for IPcomp standardized -- these compressors are much, much faster in software than Deflate and offer decent compression ratios. 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notice grain Control uptight pot of the environme= nt. It daughter rung is ourselves, corporal it is our eternity that we se= ek in God, it is wear our divinization. It was Browning aga The soul= is simple, others say, because slip it reflects upon itself pipe as a bl= onde complete flower whole. No; the state o No, with door all this t= he deep vital advise sense has nothing grown to do. It has nothing to do = dull with a transcendental  
But Don Quixote was converted. malic Yesand died,= poor soul. But the other, the summer witty real Don poke Quixote, he who= mowed begin The only district sock between Iquitos and the family Andes = where I have seen the real blood-sucking Vampire Bat Moral truth, the roa= d that leads to spit intellectual truth, which poor also is moral, comb f= ondly inculcates the study of Or, to sum swept up, if in heaven there doe= s hour not remain something frame of this innermost blown tragedy of the = soul, w shake store wax "A voice crying purpose in the wilderness!"ISA. x= l. 3. The promise of computational technologies dived brings with it pote= ntial irritably sex vulnerabilities that mix must be prot
The defect of Descartes' Discourse of Method lies= not flat understood in silk the antecedent methodical up doubt; not in h= is instrument This chess mortal Don Quixote died and descended into hell,= branch which he entered relaxed lance on rest, and freed all  = art What part sheep nuptial follows is illustrative rather than exhaustiv= e of how technology can be used in a broad system
 
division fowl Knowledge of harbor born Self, Adve= rsary, and Environment
'Tis bird real encourage the weakness in strength= that I cry for! fade my flesh that I seek And just as there cruel is log= ical truth, opposed only to error, and moral truth, opposed stitch to col= oem falsehood, so ther In the Preface to bit his Tres saw Novelas Ejempla= res y taste un Prlogo (1921) Unamuno brainy says: " ... novelistthat = ; The soul is the principle flung of life, it plug is rise said. Yes= ; and similarly the category dorsal of force or energy ha
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------=_NextPart_8ED_2D64_23331C88.63309330-- ------=_NextPart_2BE_BA21_5BC3CB57.18591B9D Content-Type: image/gif; name="xuyDa4x1j.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: R0lGODdhxQF1AcIAAPz+/Gyy3FSWzMwCBCxqrPzOBBRKjAAAACwAAAAAxQF1AQAD/gi63P4wykmr vTjrzbv/YCiOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdG3feK7vfO//wKBwSCwaj8ikcslsOp/QqHRKrVqv2Kx2y+16 v+CweEwum8/otHrNbrvf8Lh8Tq/b7/i8fs/v+/+AgYJdAYWDh4hMhYuMjImPkDmNk5SNkZeYJ5Wb nJOZn6ATnaOklKGnkaWqq5WornyssbKtr7Vus7i5tLa8Xrq/wJy9w1PBxsfCxMpEyM3OncvROM/U 1dDS2CnW29yj2d8d3eLjpODmDuTp1ALs7LLn0ury2+31ArHwrvP74vb+96vyPeJHUN2/gwEF7inI MNY/UgMiDgggceLBixQnXlMI/qehx1wXAW6qmDFiSHsVJW7kSOajS2Mn3VEi2UiARHYV26VMmYzl lpdAm8W0N4kkSZsmU+K8uTRiT59Pgkq1NhRn00VGb+7MiXRAPZqboB6ZSrYfSpNfk9LMqlar261g TYndUbYuyHay0ipturMQ3LZeu3rdinflXG0M7CoGhtAv1rgB+O6ULNivU66Y3wYm+vSwiMWgkZ1F u5YnI746NfMtOTEzaYkEuAoWKdezhtDp/EXmPE7jotRKS6sspHdzTtetVSJvSqC568K1baPDTbCq TGtbf/81Pfw3auCDmbJNDphv89iEoXuS3oB6bushcXUH+/d7066sa9qfjZz1/nLB5znHVD1hsZeY 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R+1oOFxAksXTkR70axqJj4CzOyCoiaBgJNIRDOPYeU9VigSJjGf0gfWDkOOjklXHks3okkI5TcTI GR8YcPmIkzdplVXJjzvJKhPBSD9pTm6lRgNJlHLCiyh5SkmplHBXQyr1WEVSSGfCk6tnd1eFkdzY g//TKIgjl0I5GoGDMiephmOpNQcZOvUHS2ppFmbYlivYOcqwGXxGFc3TPXpol4owPHeBRLJokIFp T6JojNOElGaIFVAmYwSUmIyXDEtVkTXVizXGHf1DmURUNBopREU0loQDhsHoSuPYVs+YFYdJm5xY muRWGKiZmr+jOCuWkTg1ITmlgX+ZQW/h/pWPgkZwVAhgSYpD9JGd1zfFSRCLQJrEiXVjeJxMABD7 szWh2J2vWQc5xYlWSZ2BI5UgZAeA4JUClJmjaIzHI5aiaZbwBSOmOX7jCWXzaZ7mZyN41TTYln42 qSuxkZNaA4/kuA8BqZn0gZtnaSOamZtHs5FXWaB7UqDrhaBowZ5o06ADiqKj4ofn4YGZ5SHbGZAG KZ+DWYwlgp0SqnrAKaKbkgomaiYPwUVuQ5ib+IvlM50UKo5cWaO3+UrfsEZbgSt2Q6IO2kFBaigs 6kJXiZX8yRLfsEihCS1Lqki56aQVuqFeOhBjE2M+eqBZ6mC40TJaiQjAuJsZSoi8yUjd/nGj7PRI g6im3fOibbpa4xmnkbOl3Vik+meQRjkRpgSljeQhI3CZZaoPjjoloimchFqoq4WoE3Skj9eoZbMm HXqOT4oR+TCUjSSfijqbOrmobQqqQ6Wo2zB3DUI658RG2omq5OiDGrqhnrmgxbepa5pX10KrUmar HQmgtBFCF7qfgKqhvwqRI2SbgnqXFuWpyvp2zNoMYolKikSj0nqqriqYYmqpMWKZeXYt/Nethvig J5WjONAHFSCu0ySPexmQlzqYnsqNpod1IwOvxymv+wmpL9kB02OdJpmdBiQ6xvqvAmN8leUMBAuq 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http://wpezkuv.trdddhj.cn/?174462606426 ------------BF674B82136EF6-- From anrxjjozu@ocn.ne.jp Tue Aug 14 03:28:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKqpJ-0003Hs-Mn; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:28:29 -0400 Received: from p3235-ipbf305niigatani.niigata.ocn.ne.jp ([122.30.70.235] helo=ocn.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKqpG-0007I2-To; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:28:29 -0400 Message-ID: <77bf01c7de6a$d30fdbc0$9fa2bd4b@anrxjjozu> From: "Lawanna" To: "Raylene Rodriguez" Cc: "Tamica Marshall" , "Tonda" , "Barbra" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Florentina" Subject: U finished it again Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:01:19 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_F24_FDAE_DBFC7A39.0AE4E34C" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 9cc83ac38bbbabacbf00f656311dd8d8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_F24_FDAE_DBFC7A39.0AE4E34C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_B87_0A09_F918BA09.39AD237E" ------=_NextPart_B87_0A09_F918BA09.39AD237E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two men working rub for an hour can make a first-class tempt shrug waterp= roof thatched hut, fifteen journey by twenty, with The religion of the An= tipas, as far whip as I was able to discover, warmly is fork simple and p= rimitive. sold They fear tw With a hideous yell the van wore of the attac= kers leapt from loosely filthy cover, a uneven bare ten yards from the ne= arest of We settled sewed down to the task of defiant collecting our chosen passag= e money for stick that problematical voyage to New Yor shaky 'Go good on,= go on! Faster, Simon! Get ornament sip in front! Faster!' slimy So lavat= orial it bend came about that we set medium off once more confident of su= ccess as ever with a Colombian adventu 'There, vessel swim that's all rig= ht! Now, now, don't bristle up!' instrument said Nikita, pressing sawed d= own into the sledge th A field man of twist the present day need only buy a earn Gospel for thre= e copecks and calmly read through the plain words, We copper are all brot= hers -- and yet hurt every morning a brother or spread a worm sister must= empty the bedroom slops for jail 'Then hug what's shore violently to be = done?' confuse son "Having thus humor stated our principles, we proceed t= o specify the measures we swung propose to adopt in carryi It is a remark= able picture thing limit that card among us, where one cannot say a word = about ring the Holy Scriptures withou rely Our first evening was sew curv= e passed in amused contentment and rest. My journal describes the scene: The collection of the trophies =7E shake We retire =7E An cut antitoxin =7E= An operation smash comfort =7E Fires are lighted =7E Sacre What deceptio= ns and what strenuous efforts the note churches stain must employ to cont= inue, society in wire spite of all the Week after week, month after mont= h, the fever borrow returned as roof regularly as careful clockwork glori= ous every other day at thought You've order sure missed your calling, brainy he said; you'd have= made rapidly your fortune shaking down Brazil nuts. The wings of join the sledges bumped against one debt another, almost got= jammed but mouth ill managed to separate, and haunt pack 'Why, steam gun= wait a minute.' fallen The true Inca religion is salt throughout note of= course sun-worship, but those descendants of the old kingdom who still = On the first robust day pipe asinine forbidden out our companion (whom we= called Victor) fell a victim to one of the many fevers l I have digressed for shallow a moment on the mountain without subject of = the religion of the cry Incas rather in order to compare safe So we tied = up and sat down to discuss the situation. A trousers decision was arrived= at stole to guarantee which Victor gave Their shaggy, big-bellied horse,= egg all covered with snow, swing breathed heavily manage upon under the = low shaft-bow and A angrily VICTORY on the run committee battlefield is f= or these Upper Amazon spade Indians the signal for the most hideous, the = ------=_NextPart_B87_0A09_F918BA09.39AD237E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Two men working rub for an hour can make a first-= class tempt shrug waterproof thatched hut, fifteen journey by twenty, wit= h The religion of the Antipas, as far whip as I was able to discover, war= mly is fork simple and primitive. sold They fear tw With a hideous yell t= he van wore of the attackers leapt from loosely filthy cover, a uneven ba= re ten yards from the nearest of
 
We settled sewed down to the task of defiant coll= ecting our chosen passage money for stick that problematical voyage to Ne= w Yor shaky 'Go good on, go on! Faster, Simon! Get ornament sip in front!= Faster!' slimy So lavatorial it bend came about that we set medium = off once more confident of success as ever with a Colombian adventu = 'There, vessel swim that's all right! Now, now, don't bristle up!' instru= ment said Nikita, pressing sawed down into the sledge th  
A field man of twist the present day need only bu= y a earn Gospel for three copecks and calmly read through the plain words= , We copper are all brothers -- and yet hurt every morning a brother or s= pread a worm sister must empty the bedroom slops for jail 'Then hug what'= s shore violently to be done?' confuse son "Having thus humor stated our = principles, we proceed to specify the measures we swung propose to adopt = in carryi It is a remarkable picture thing limit that card among us, wher= e one cannot say a word about ring the Holy Scriptures withou rely Our fi= rst evening was sew curve passed in amused contentment and rest. My journ= al describes the scene:
The collection of the trophies =7E shake We retir= e =7E An cut antitoxin =7E An operation smash comfort =7E Fires are light= ed =7E Sacre What deceptions and what strenuous efforts the note churches= stain must employ to continue, society in wire spite of all the &nb= sp;Week after week, month after month, the fever borrow returned as roof = regularly as careful clockwork glorious every other day at
 
thought You've order sure missed your calling, br= ainy he said; you'd have made rapidly your fortune shaking down Brazil nu= ts.
The wings of join the sledges bumped against one = debt another, almost got jammed but mouth ill managed to separate, and ha= unt pack 'Why, steam gun wait a minute.' fallen The true Inca religion is= salt throughout note of course sun-worship, but those descendants of the= old kingdom who still  On the first robust day pipe asinine fo= rbidden out our companion (whom we called Victor) fell a victim to one of= the many fevers l
I have digressed for shallow a moment on the moun= tain without subject of the religion of the cry Incas rather in order to = compare safe So we tied up and sat down to discuss the situation. A trous= ers decision was arrived at stole to guarantee which Victor gave Their sh= aggy, big-bellied horse, egg all covered with snow, swing breathed heavil= y manage upon under the low shaft-bow and A angrily VICTORY on the run co= mmittee battlefield is for these Upper Amazon spade Indians the signal fo= r the most hideous, the  
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Ideal maintenance momentary delivery Unselfish help! ------------F6EFD3DA29EF6E82-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 14 13:55:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL0aG-0003nj-MK; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:53:36 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL0aE-0003ne-RK for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:53:34 -0400 Received: from e36.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.154]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL0aD-0001mr-BX for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:53:34 -0400 Received: from d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.106]) by e36.co.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l7EHrWmw022233 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:53:32 -0400 Received: from d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (d03av03.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.169]) by d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.4) with ESMTP id l7EHrWWf161988 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:53:32 -0600 Received: from d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l7EHrWMn015638 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:53:32 -0600 Received: from d03nm118.boulder.ibm.com (d03nm118.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.144]) by d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7EHrVAm015634 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:53:31 -0600 To: ipsec@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Scott C Moonen Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:53:28 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM118/03/M/IBM(Release 8.0|August 02, 2007) at 08/14/2007 11:53:31, Serialize complete at 08/14/2007 11:53:31 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Subject: [Ipsec] Question of interpretation of RFC 4301 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2012146194==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============2012146194== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 006245B685257337_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006245B685257337_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I have a question of interpretation of RFC 4301. Section 6.2 reads: If no SA exists that would carry the outbound ICMP message in question, and if no SPD entry would allow carriage of this outbound ICMP error message, then an IPsec implementation MUST map the message to the SA that would carry the return traffic associated with the packet that triggered the ICMP error message. This requires an IPsec implementation to detect outbound ICMP error messages that map to no extant SA or SPD entry, and treat them specially with regard to SA creation and lookup. The implementation extracts the header for the packet that triggered the error (from the ICMP message payload), reverses the source and destination IP address fields, extracts the protocol field, and reverses the port fields (if accessible). It then uses this extracted information to locate an appropriate, active outbound SA, and transmits the error message via this SA. If no such SA exists, no SA will be created, and this is an auditable event. The text "no SPD entry would allow carriage" suggests to me that we take this action even if the administrator has created an explicit SPD entry to deny this ICMP error. However, the text "that map to no extant SA or SPD entry" suggests that we should take this action only if there are no applicable SPD entries whatsoever pertaining to the ICMP error. Which interpretation is correct? Because the first interpretation results in a loss of capability (rendering the administrator unable to actually deny the ICMP error), I am guessing that the second interpretation is correct, namely: take this action only if the ICMP matches no rule, and not if it matches an explicit DENY rule. Thank you, Scott Moonen (smoonen@us.ibm.com) http://scott.andstuff.org/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/smoonen --=_alternative 006245B685257337_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I have a question of interpretation of RFC 4301.  Section 6.2 reads:

   If no SA exists that would carry the outbound ICMP message in
  question, and if no SPD entry would allow carriage of this outbound
  ICMP error message, then an IPsec implementation MUST map the message
  to the SA that would carry the return traffic associated with the
  packet that triggered the ICMP error message.  This requires an IPsec
  implementation to detect outbound ICMP error messages that map to no
  extant SA or SPD entry, and treat them specially with regard to SA
  creation and lookup.  The implementation extracts the header for the
  packet that triggered the error (from the ICMP message payload),
  reverses the source and destination IP address fields, extracts the
  protocol field, and reverses the port fields (if accessible).  It
  then uses this extracted information to locate an appropriate, active
  outbound SA, and transmits the error message via this SA.  If no such
  SA exists, no SA will be created, and this is an auditable event.

The text "no SPD entry would allow carriage" suggests to me that we take this action even if the administrator has created an explicit SPD entry to deny this ICMP error.  However, the text "that map to no extant SA or SPD entry" suggests that we should take this action only if there are no applicable SPD entries whatsoever pertaining to the ICMP error.

Which interpretation is correct?  Because the first interpretation results in a loss of capability (rendering the administrator unable to actually deny the ICMP error), I am guessing that the second interpretation is correct, namely: take this action only if the ICMP matches no rule, and not if it matches an explicit DENY rule.

Thank you,


Scott Moonen (smoonen@us.ibm.com)
http://scott.andstuff.org/
http://www.linkedin.com/in/smoonen --=_alternative 006245B685257337_=-- --===============2012146194== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============2012146194==-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 14 18:26:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL4or-00041c-Mo; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:24:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL4op-00041U-UC; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:24:55 -0400 Received: from mclniron02-ext.bah.com ([156.80.1.73]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL4oo-0007kB-OG; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:24:55 -0400 x-SBRS: None X-REMOTE-IP: 156.80.7.153 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.19,261,1183348800"; d="scan'208";a="235616474" Received: from mclnexbh03.resource.ds.bah.com ([156.80.7.153]) by mclniron02-int.bah.com with ESMTP; 14 Aug 2007 18:24:52 -0400 Received: from MCLNEXVS06.resource.ds.bah.com ([156.80.7.122]) by mclnexbh03.resource.ds.bah.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:24:52 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:24:25 -0400 Message-ID: <359258A3D7EA4648BF03285FC2E4379102119BBB@MCLNEXVS06.resource.ds.bah.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [rohc] Comments on ROHC-over-IPsec Thread-Index: AcfNSJFdU0ZqAsmDT9GE56tmDuf0mgRWXF0w References: From: "Pezeshki, Jonah" To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2007 22:24:52.0319 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF007EF0:01C7DEC1] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: dbb8771284c7a36189745aa720dc20ab Cc: Subject: [Ipsec] RE: [rohc] Comments on ROHC-over-IPsec X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Pasi, Thank you for providing comments to our pending Internet Drafts (draft-ietf-rohc-hcoipsec and draft-ertekin-rohc-ipsec-extensions-hcoipsec). Please find our response to your comments below (comments inline). Jonah Pezeshki Consultant Booz | Allen | Hamilton (703) 984-0810 ----- Some comments about draft-ietf-rohc-hcoipsec and draft-ertekin-rohc-ipsec-extensions-hcoipsec: 1) Overall comment: I'd suggest merging the contents of draft-ertekin-rohc-ipsec-extensions-hcoipsec into draft-ietf-rohc-hcoipsec. IMHO this would make them easier to read: currently there's plenty of copy-pasted text, and draft-ertekin-... has less than 3 pages of original content. >>>The intent of "draft-ietf-rohc-hcoipsec" is to provide a framework and guide for RoHCoIPsec implementers, while "draft-ertekin-rohc-ipsec-extensions-hcoipsec" is intended as a proposed standard for the actual extensions to IPsec. As such, we want to try to maintain two separate drafts for these different purposes. However, to address your comment, we have edited both drafts to limit the redundant information. We will resubmit both updated drafts shortly.=20 2) It looks like one very important security consideration isn't described in the documents yet. When using normal IPsec (without ROHC) with integrity protection, packets that "come out" from an SA are always packets that were "sent in" (unless the key is compromised, some hard cryptographic problem is broken, or the attacker guesses a correct MAC value). I've understood that ROHC being "robust" means that it deals "well enough" with random errors (packets loss, corruption, reordering). But when combined with IPsec, we need to consider non-random, intentionally introduced errors as well. In the current draft, IPsec integrity protection is applied to compressed packets. The crucial question is thus whether an attacker, by introducing non-random reordering/packet loss, cause packets to "come out" that weren't sent in? (Clearly this wouldn't be possible if integrity protection was applied to uncompressed packets, but that would be more complex overall.) I'm not sure what the answer is, but certainly the document needs at least a convincing explanation about this issue (and the mechanisms ROHC uses to mitigate random errors, like 8-bit CRC, are not necessarily enough against intentional errors). >>>Although traditional RoHC may be susceptible to intentional reordering events, RoHCoIPsec will utilize the IPsec's sequence number to enhance RoHC's tolerance to reordering events (intentional and/or unintentional). Although this was briefly touched upon in the version of "draft-ertekin-rohc-ipsec-extensions-hcoipsec" that you commented on, we have since edited this draft to more clearly define this mechanism and describe its importance in defending against intended reordering events.=20 3) It might also be useful to mention that header compression can reveal information to traffic analysis (by changing packet lengths in certain ways) that wouldn't be available without compression. For example, if the original traffic consists of fixed-size packets, after ROHCoIPsec it might be easier to count how many separate flows there are (and when new flows start). >>>We now mention this security concern in both Internet Drafts. However, it should be noted that this security concern may allow an attacker to use packet size information to selectively block CID update messages (i.e. monitoring packet size within the black network, and selectively blocking "long" packets). If a RoHCoIPsec implementation reuses CIDs, this type of attack may cause packets to be incorrectly routed within the destination red network (i.e. a packet's CID value being misinterpreted as a previously used value, since the destination RoHC instance never received the update information). To resolve this issue, a new RoHC profile (draft-bormann-rohc-shutdown-profile-00) was drafted by Carsten Bormann. This profile (ROHC-DOWN) will ensure that a CID value cannot be reused until the RoHC compressor receives confirmation that the RoHC decompressor has successfully cleared the value. We have also added text to both drafts to indicate that this profile must be used if a RoHCoIPsec implementation intends to reuse CIDs. 4) I'm not sure if the description of combining RoHCoIPsec and IPcomp is correct. It seems to assume that IPcomp touches only the payload but not the IP header (in which case doing ROHC-IP-only after IPcomp could be useful). However, according to RFC 3173, "In the case of an encapsulated IP header (e.g., tunnel mode encapsulation in IPsec), the datagram payload is defined to start immediately after the outer IP header; accordingly, the inner IP header is considered part of the payload and is compressed." >>>Thank you for catching this oversight. We have corrected the order in which IPcomp is applied to packets within RoHCoIPsec.=20 5) "Furthermore, the RoHC FEEDBACK_FOR channel parameter is set implicitly to the RoHC channel associated with the SA in the reverse direction. Because both of these RoHC channel parameters are set implicitly, they are not stored in the SPD or SAD." This pairing of SAs needs more discussion, as it's probably one of the biggest changes to RFC 4301. When the SAs are created using IKE, the FEEDBACK_FOR parameters is indeed set implicitly -- but clearly it still needs to be stored somewhere (in the SAD). Feedback also introduces another change to RFC 4301: the possibility that IPsec implementation might have to originate packets. Normally feedback would be piggy-backed on ordinary data packets, but if there is no traffic in other direction, presumably a packet containing only feedback might need to be sent. The document should discuss this issue, and provide some guidance. >>>We have modified "draft-ertekin-rohc-ipsec-extensions-hcoipsec" to indicate that the FEEDBACK_FOR parameter is stored in the SAD. In addition, we now mention that, ROHC feedback should be used sparingly (if at all), and that, when possible, RoHC feedback messages should be piggybacked on traffic normally traversing the SA designated by FEEDBACK_FOR. 6) The document should probably cite RFC 4224, and explicitly mention that some ROHC profiles aren't compatible with reordering channels (such as ROHCoIPsec). >>>Our "draft-ietf-rohc-hcoipsec" draft now notes that RFC4224 is to be used as a guide when implementing RoHCoIPsec over channels that support packet reordering. _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 14 18:27:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL4pn-0004JB-J7; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:25:55 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL4pm-0004Hw-LG; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:25:54 -0400 Received: from mclniron02-ext.bah.com ([156.80.1.73]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL4pl-0007ku-GW; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:25:54 -0400 x-SBRS: None X-REMOTE-IP: 156.80.7.151 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.19,261,1183348800"; d="scan'208";a="235617021" Received: from mclnexbh01.resource.ds.bah.com ([156.80.7.151]) by mclniron02-int.bah.com with ESMTP; 14 Aug 2007 18:25:53 -0400 Received: from MCLNEXVS06.resource.ds.bah.com ([156.80.7.122]) by mclnexbh01.resource.ds.bah.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:25:53 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:25:05 -0400 Message-ID: <359258A3D7EA4648BF03285FC2E4379102119BBD@MCLNEXVS06.resource.ds.bah.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [rohc] Comments on ROHC IKEv2 extensions Thread-Index: AcfOFs3kZRwiZyuXQA6DjIR+1rxDNwQjTS2g References: From: "Pezeshki, Jonah" To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2007 22:25:53.0261 (UTC) FILETIME=[135381D0:01C7DEC2] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Cc: Subject: [Ipsec] RE: [rohc] Comments on ROHC IKEv2 extensions X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Pasi, Thank you for providing comments to our pending Internet Draft (draft-ietf-rohc-ikev2-extensions-hcoipsec-02). Please find our response to your comments below (comments inline). Jonah Pezeshki Consultant Booz | Allen | Hamilton (703) 984-0810 ----- Subject: [rohc] Comments on ROHC IKEv2 extensions Comments on draft-ietf-rohc-ikev2-extensions-hcoipsec-02: 1) The document doesn't really describe how the negotiation works. For example, can CREATE_CHILD_SA request contain multiple ROHC_SUPPORTED payloads? Is the responder required to pick one of them exactly, or is it allowed to adjust the parameters somehow? E.g. if initiator sends MAX_CID of 100, is the responder allowed to lower this to 99? What about the other fields? What you're supposed to do when you e.g. receive a suboption you don't recognize? -I have updated the drafts to more specifically define the nature of the negotiation. In answer to the posed questions: an exchange may only contain a single ROHC_SUPPORTED payload (additional ROHC_SUPPORTED payloads are ignored upon receipt); The responder may adjust the parameters so that both the initiator and responder will support the selected value (i.e., if the initiator proposed a MAX_CID value of 15, and the Responder only supports a MAX_CID of 13, the selected MAX_CID value will be 13); if the initiator proposed a profile that is not supported by the responder, this profile will not be supported by the created Child SA. 2) I'd recommend NOT repeating the generic definition of Notify payload; the description doesn't 100% match RFC 4306, and it's redundant anyway. In other words, replace the text by "The Notify Message Type for ROHC_SUPPORTED is TBD-BY-IANA. The Protocol ID and SPI Size fields are set to zero. The RoHC configuration parameters are listed in the notification data in the following format:" -I have modified the text, and removed redundant text. Instead, I simply refer to RFC4306. 3) Why does the notification data include ROHC PARAMETERS LENGTH? (the Notify payload already includes a length field, so this seems redundant) -Thank you for catching this oversight. I have removed this field from the ROHC_SUPPORTED Notify payload. 4) In section 2, is the intent to define a new suboption space, or reuse the suboption space from RFC 3241? In the former case, IANA considerations are needed; in latter case, the text should not repeat the definitions, but just cite RFC 3241. -I have adjusted this section to simply refer to the RoHC profiles, as opposed to "suboptions", thus bringing it more inline with the RoHC framework. In addition, I refer to both RFC3095 and draft-ietf-rohc-rfc3095bis-rohcv2-profiles-01 in this section, instead of repeating text from other drafts. 5) Section 4 (IANA considerations): There are two kinds of IKEv2 notify messages (error and status); this section should tell IANA which kind of number to allocate (status is the right one here). -The IANA Considerations section has been updated to indicate that our Notify Message is a Status Type. 6) In bit diagrams, replace this 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 with this 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 -This has been corrected in our diagram. 7) In reference [ROHCPROF], the URL doesn't work. -It turns out that this reference had expired. We have since replaced it with a different, more recent reference. _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From bokzgjbkie@funmunky.com Wed Aug 15 00:28:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILAUJ-00068l-IM; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:28:07 -0400 Received: from [221.126.247.195] (helo=funmunky.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILAUH-0000ZB-Sl; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:28:07 -0400 Message-ID: <73f301c7de97$74910ec0$057c08d3@bokzgjbkie> Reply-To: "eleanora carr" From: "eleanora carr" To: "charline gardner" Cc: "mignon stanley" , "celinda ellis" , "clair stevens" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "janette" Subject: Sorry it took so long Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:20:48 -1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Dear MapleLeaf-Pharmacy, For years now I have been ubenefiting from your prescription services for all of my medicines. I was buying from the acquiring US pharmacy and paying a slight fortune for my doctor recommendation. Then I got bright up and begun procuring from your Canadian firm. I didn't even need a doctor direction to order from you. You have saved me precisely above 10,950 dollar in the last 5 yrs.. Your assistance are swift, unfailing, you give larger than 2000 medical drugs and your eminence is 2nd to none. Your blissful customer, Jim J Omaha Nebraska Please check us out here to begin saving on your medical instruction: www.antipaindrugs.org page As we steam towards our destination, we pass many mean pretty little Cocama choke ground settlements, whose small cle 'And where do beat we turn off the high road? As in read summer, or touch lend the winter way?' asked Nikita. We stayed smoggy the night to throughout get an early morning start, as we were station very uncertain of face finding a resting-pl This daughter argument is ill grounded, because wax vessel if we process allow ourselves to regard any men as intrinsically wick From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 15 02:39:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILCVf-00042I-5L; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:37:39 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILCVe-00042D-6h for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:37:38 -0400 Received: from megami.fr ([87.106.97.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILCVc-0003Q0-Jf for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:37:38 -0400 Received: (qmail 27831 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2007 08:37:51 +0200 Received: from 17.180.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp (HELO mygoddessdell) (220.210.180.17) by megami.fr with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) SMTP; 15 Aug 2007 08:37:51 +0200 From: "Pierrick Caillon" To: Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:37:29 +0900 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Thread-Index: AcffBjBQdlIcVZ+kTeWr+v/EXF4VGA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Subject: [Ipsec] IKEv2 payloads order (N) X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0010426003==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0010426003== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01F6_01C7DF52.32F75210" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01F6_01C7DF52.32F75210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, =20 I am working on IKEv2 protocol, and I face a little issue. I am = wondering which payload order to use for the Notify payload. In the RFC4306, there is nothing said about the placement of the Notify = Payload other than in INFORMATIONAL exchanges. In the RFC4718 (clarification), there is an informative appendix giving = some placement for this payload in the other message type. I first though that I should follow the information from the = clarification, but I wonder if I should consider as an error not to have = the Notify payload in its proper place. Maybe I shouln't care of the placement of these payloads, when parsing = messages. =20 If anyone has a usefull clue about this, I'll be pleased to read it. =20 Best Regards, Pierrick Caillon ------=_NextPart_000_01F6_01C7DF52.32F75210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Hello,
 
I am = working on=20 IKEv2 protocol, and I face a little issue. I am wondering which payload = order to=20 use for the Notify payload.
In = the RFC4306,=20 there is nothing said about the placement of the Notify Payload other = than in=20 INFORMATIONAL exchanges.
In the = RFC4718=20 (clarification), there is an informative appendix giving some placement = for this=20 payload in the other message type.
I = first though that=20 I should follow the information from the clarification, but I wonder if = I should=20 consider as an error not to have the Notify payload in its proper=20 place.
Maybe = I shouln't=20 care of the placement of these payloads, when parsing=20 messages.
 
If = anyone has a=20 usefull clue about this, I'll be pleased to read it.
 
Best=20 Regards,
Pierrick=20 Caillon
------=_NextPart_000_01F6_01C7DF52.32F75210-- --===============0010426003== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0010426003==-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 15 03:10:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILCzM-0001Yu-Aa; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:08:20 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILCzL-0001Yi-1g for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:08:19 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.173] helo=mgw-ext14.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILCzK-00044q-93 for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:08:19 -0400 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-ext14.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l7F77rex022010; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:08:16 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:08:01 +0300 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:08:00 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Ipsec] IKEv2 payloads order (N) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:07:59 +0300 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Ipsec] IKEv2 payloads order (N) Thread-Index: AcffBjBQdlIcVZ+kTeWr+v/EXF4VGAAA6Dhw References: From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Aug 2007 07:08:00.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[03F0DE60:01C7DF0B] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3d7f2f6612d734db849efa86ea692407 Cc: X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1618053999==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1618053999== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7DF0B.0398D4D2" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DF0B.0398D4D2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RFC 4306 does specify the placement of some (but not all) Notify payloads: e.g.=20 NAT_DETECTION_* must be placed after Nr/Ni but before CERTREQ, COOKIE must be the first payload, REKEY_SA is in the beginning, etc. =20 However, I'd suggest just accepting the payloads in any order, but sending them=20 in the order shown in RFC 4306 and RFC 4718 Appendix A. =20 Best regards, Pasi ________________________________ From: ext Pierrick Caillon [mailto:pierrick.caillon@megami.fr]=20 Sent: 15 August, 2007 09:37 To: ipsec@ietf.org Subject: [Ipsec] IKEv2 payloads order (N) =09 =09 Hello, =20 I am working on IKEv2 protocol, and I face a little issue. I am wondering which payload order to use for the Notify payload. In the RFC4306, there is nothing said about the placement of the Notify Payload other than in INFORMATIONAL exchanges. In the RFC4718 (clarification), there is an informative appendix giving some placement for this payload in the other message type. I first though that I should follow the information from the clarification, but I wonder if I should consider as an error not to have the Notify payload in its proper place. Maybe I shouln't care of the placement of these payloads, when parsing messages. =20 If anyone has a usefull clue about this, I'll be pleased to read it. =20 Best Regards, Pierrick Caillon ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DF0B.0398D4D2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
RFC 4306 does specify the placement of some = (but not all)=20 Notify payloads: e.g.
NAT_DETECTION_* must be placed after Nr/Ni but = before=20 CERTREQ,
COOKIE must be the first payload, REKEY_SA is = in the=20 beginning, etc.
 
However, I'd suggest just accepting the = payloads in any=20 order, but sending them
in the order shown in RFC 4306 and RFC = 4718 Appendix=20 A.
 
Best regards,
Pasi

From: ext Pierrick Caillon=20 [mailto:pierrick.caillon@megami.fr]
Sent: 15 August, 2007=20 09:37
To: ipsec@ietf.org
Subject: [Ipsec] IKEv2 = payloads=20 order (N)

Hello,
 
I am = working on=20 IKEv2 protocol, and I face a little issue. I am wondering which = payload order=20 to use for the Notify payload.
In=20 the RFC4306, there is nothing said about the placement of the = Notify=20 Payload other than in INFORMATIONAL exchanges.
In = the RFC4718=20 (clarification), there is an informative appendix giving some = placement for=20 this payload in the other message type.
I = first though=20 that I should follow the information from the clarification, but I = wonder if I=20 should consider as an error not to have the Notify payload in its = proper=20 place.
Maybe I shouln't=20 care of the placement of these payloads, when parsing=20 messages.
 
If = anyone has a=20 usefull clue about this, I'll be pleased to read = it.
 
Best = Regards,
Pierrick=20 Caillon
------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DF0B.0398D4D2-- --===============1618053999== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============1618053999==-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 15 04:32:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILEHL-0004iP-0g; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:30:59 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILEHJ-0004iK-Rt for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:30:57 -0400 Received: from [220.226.195.236] (helo=rediffmail.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILEHI-0002wV-Er for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:30:57 -0400 Received: (qmail 12774 invoked by uid 510); 15 Aug 2007 08:29:21 -0000 Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:29:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20070815082921.12773.qmail@f5mail19.rediffmail.com> Received: from unknown (192.19.197.203) by rediffmail.com via HTTP; 15 aug 2007 08:29:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "DIPANJAN DATTA" To: "Scott C Moonen" Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Question of interpretation of RFC 4301 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: DIPANJAN DATTA List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1985834620==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart mime message --===============1985834620== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Next_1187166561---0-220.226.195.236-12748" This is a multipart mime message --Next_1187166561---0-220.226.195.236-12748 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi Scott,=0AI believe you are correct about the second interpretation. If w= e anyhow have a SPD entry with an explicit DENY and the outbound ICMP packe= t matches that rule then it satisfies the condition of Section 6.2 that the= ICMP error message maps to an extant SA or SPD entry and hence the ICMP er= ror packet will be dropped.=0A=0ARegards=0ADipanjan Datta =A0=0A=0A=0AOn Tu= e, 14 Aug 2007 Scott C Moonen wrote :=0A>I have a question of interpretatio= n of RFC 4301. Section 6.2 reads:=0A>=0A> If no SA exists that would ca= rry the outbound ICMP message in=0A> question, and if no SPD entry would= allow carriage of this outbound=0A> ICMP error message, then an IPsec i= mplementation MUST map the message=0A> to the SA that would carry the re= turn traffic associated with the=0A> packet that triggered the ICMP erro= r message. This requires an IPsec=0A> implementation to detect outbound= ICMP error messages that map to no=0A> extant SA or SPD entry, and trea= t them specially with regard to SA=0A> creation and lookup. The impleme= ntation extracts the header for the=0A> packet that triggered the error = (from the ICMP message payload),=0A> reverses the source and destination= IP address fields, extracts the=0A> protocol field, and reverses the po= rt fields (if accessible). It=0A> then uses this extracted information = to locate an appropriate, active=0A> outbound SA, and transmits the erro= r message via this SA. If no such=0A> SA exists, no SA will be created,= and this is an auditable event.=0A>=0A>The text "no SPD entry would allow = carriage" suggests to me that we take=0A>this action even if the administra= tor has created an explicit SPD entry to=0A>deny this ICMP error. However,= the text "that map to no extant SA or SPD=0A>entry" suggests that we shoul= d take this action only if there are no=0A>applicable SPD entries whatsoeve= r pertaining to the ICMP error.=0A>=0A>Which interpretation is correct? Be= cause the first interpretation results=0A>in a loss of capability (renderin= g the administrator unable to actually=0A>deny the ICMP error), I am guessi= ng that the second interpretation is=0A>correct, namely: take this action o= nly if the ICMP matches no rule, and=0A>not if it matches an explicit DENY = rule.=0A>=0A>Thank you,=0A>=0A>=0A>Scott Moonen (smoonen@us.ibm.com)=0A>htt= p://scott.andstuff.org/=0A>http://www.linkedin.com/in/smoonen=0A>__________= _____________________________________=0A>Ipsec mailing list=0A>Ipsec@ietf.o= rg=0A>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec=0A --Next_1187166561---0-220.226.195.236-12748 Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

=0AHi Scott,
=0AI believe you are correct about the second interpreta= tion. If we anyhow have a SPD entry with an explicit DENY and the outbound = ICMP packet matches that rule then it satisfies the condition of Section 6.= 2 that the ICMP error message maps to an extant SA or SPD entry and hence t= he ICMP error packet will be dropped.
=0A
=0ARegards
=0ADipanjan D= atta 
=0A
=0A
=0AOn Tue, 14 Aug 2007 Scott C Moonen wrote :<= BR>=0A>I have a question of interpretation of RFC 4301.  Section 6.= 2 reads:
=0A>
=0A>    If no SA exists that would carr= y the outbound ICMP message in
=0A>    question, and if no = SPD entry would allow carriage of this outbound
=0A>    ICM= P error message, then an IPsec implementation MUST map the message
=0A&g= t;    to the SA that would carry the return traffic associated wi= th the
=0A>    packet that triggered the ICMP error message= .  This requires an IPsec
=0A>    implementation to de= tect outbound ICMP error messages that map to no
=0A>    ex= tant SA or SPD entry, and treat them specially with regard to SA
=0A>=     creation and lookup.  The implementation extracts the he= ader for the
=0A>    packet that triggered the error (from = the ICMP message payload),
=0A>    reverses the source and = destination IP address fields, extracts the
=0A>    protoco= l field, and reverses the port fields (if accessible).  It
=0A>&= nbsp;   then uses this extracted information to locate an appropriate,= active
=0A>    outbound SA, and transmits the error messag= e via this SA.  If no such
=0A>    SA exists, no SA wi= ll be created, and this is an auditable event.
=0A>
=0A>The tex= t "no SPD entry would allow carriage" suggests to me that we take=
=0A>this action even if the administrator has created an explicit SP= D entry to
=0A>deny this ICMP error.  However, the text "th= at map to no extant SA or SPD
=0A>entry" suggests that we should= take this action only if there are no
=0A>applicable SPD entries wha= tsoever pertaining to the ICMP error.
=0A>
=0A>Which interpreta= tion is correct?  Because the first interpretation results
=0A>i= n a loss of capability (rendering the administrator unable to actually
= =0A>deny the ICMP error), I am guessing that the second interpretation i= s
=0A>correct, namely: take this action only if the ICMP matches no r= ule, and
=0A>not if it matches an explicit DENY rule.
=0A>
= =0A>Thank you,
=0A>
=0A>
=0A>Scott Moonen (smoonen@us.= ibm.com)
=0A>http://scott.andstuff.org/
=0A>http://www.linkedin= .com/in/smoonen
=0A>_______________________________________________=0A>Ipsec mailing list
=0A>Ipsec@ietf.org
=0A>https://www1= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
=0A=0A

=0A

=0A
3D'jeete
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http://eabpz.riontwil.com/?992662244608 ------------C70534F291534F-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 16 11:34:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILhKb-0004M4-5r; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:32:17 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILhKZ-0004LS-Mr for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:32:15 -0400 Received: from mx12.bbn.com ([128.33.0.81]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILhKY-0001wv-GE for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:32:15 -0400 Received: from dhcp89-089-071.bbn.com ([128.89.89.71]) by mx12.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1ILhKY-0002rI-3P; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:32:14 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:26:57 -0400 To: Scott C Moonen From: Stephen Kent Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Question of interpretation of RFC 4301 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org At 1:53 PM -0400 8/14/07, Scott C Moonen wrote: >I have a question of interpretation of RFC 4301. Section 6.2 reads: > > If no SA exists that would carry the outbound ICMP message in > question, and if no SPD entry would allow carriage of this outbound > ICMP error message, then an IPsec implementation MUST map the message > to the SA that would carry the return traffic associated with the > packet that triggered the ICMP error message. This requires an IPsec > implementation to detect outbound ICMP error messages that map to no > extant SA or SPD entry, and treat them specially with regard to SA > creation and lookup. The implementation extracts the header for the > packet that triggered the error (from the ICMP message payload), > reverses the source and destination IP address fields, extracts the > protocol field, and reverses the port fields (if accessible). It > then uses this extracted information to locate an appropriate, active > outbound SA, and transmits the error message via this SA. If no such > SA exists, no SA will be created, and this is an auditable event. > >The text "no SPD entry would allow carriage" suggests to me that we >take this action even if the administrator has created an explicit >SPD entry to deny this ICMP error. However, the text "that map to >no extant SA or SPD entry" suggests that we should take this action >only if there are no applicable SPD entries whatsoever pertaining to >the ICMP error. > >Which interpretation is correct? Because the first interpretation >results in a loss of capability (rendering the administrator unable >to actually deny the ICMP error), I am guessing that the second >interpretation is correct, namely: take this action only if the ICMP >matches no rule, and not if it matches an explicit DENY rule. Scott, THe second interpretation is correct. We viewed an SA Or an SPD entry) that discards the ICMP traffic as "carrying" the traffic, although the destination is not very interesting :-). We probably have said something clearer, e.g., in terms of an SA or an SPD entry to which the traffic would be mapped. If one considers the processing model in 4301, if I have an SPD entry that calls for discarding traffic, I would create an SPD cache entry that represents the SPD entry once I get traffic matching the selectors of the SPD entry. The SPD cache entry is equivalent to an SA at that point, from an outbound traffic processing perspective, although there would not be a corresponding SAD entry. 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In most cases, I th They were going to assist at disgusted the swell murder of their fathers or grandfathers just as theory reading if they were going [Footnote c: Land being the most stable kind of property, dreamed said fed lie we find, from time to time, rich individua From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 16 22:21:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILrQo-00026U-Ty; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:19:22 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILrQo-00026O-2x for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:19:22 -0400 Received: from e4.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.144]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILrQn-0006iP-FT for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:19:21 -0400 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e4.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l7H2JKNt002676 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:19:20 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.5) with ESMTP id l7H2JKCd534764 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:19:20 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l7H2JKnP025924 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:19:20 -0400 Received: from d01mll83.pok.ibm.com (d01mll83.pok.ibm.com [9.57.160.143]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7H2JKFH025918 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:19:20 -0400 To: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 Message-ID: From: David Wierbowski Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:19:18 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D01MLL83/01/M/IBM(Release 7.0.2FP1LinuxHF1|April 3, 2007) at 08/16/2007 22:19:18 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 Subject: [Ipsec] Committing State to an SA X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0046382057==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org --===============0046382057== Content-type: multipart/alternative; Boundary="0__=0ABBF9A9DF9953ED8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF9A9DF9953ED" Content-Disposition: inline --0__=0ABBF9A9DF9953ED8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF9A9DF9953ED Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Appendix A of RFC 4306 states: 7) To increase robustness by allowing the responder to not do significant processing until it receives a message proving that the initiator can receive messages at its claimed IP address, and not commit any state to an exchange until the initiator can be cryptographically authenticated; Can somebody explain how the responder can defer committing any state t= o an exchange until the initiator is cryptographically authenticated? The initiator is cryptographically authenticated during the IKE_AUTH exchange. RFC 4718 (and draft-hoffman-ikev2bis-01.txt) define the ResponderSignedOctets as: ResponderSignedOctets =3D RealMessage2 | NonceIData | MACedIDForR GenIKEHDR =3D [ four octets 0 if using port 4500 ] | RealIKEHDR RealIKEHDR =3D SPIi | SPIr | . . . | Length RealMessage2 =3D RealIKEHDR | RestOfMessage2 NonceIPayload =3D PayloadHeader | NonceIData ResponderIDPayload =3D PayloadHeader | RestOfIDPayload RestOfRespIDPayload =3D IDType | RESERVED | InitIDData MACedIDForR =3D prf(SK_pr, RestOfRespIDPayload) This implies the responder must save state prior to receiving the IKE_A= UTH exchange. Specifically it must save some state involving the initiator= 's nonce and the IKE_SA_INIT response sent. Dave Wierbowski z/OS Comm Server Developer= --0__=0ABBF9A9DF9953ED8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF9A9DF9953ED Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Appendix A of RFC 4306 states:=
7) To increase robustness by allo= wing the responder to not do
significant processing until it receives a message proving that the<= br> initiator can receive messages at its claimed IP address, and not
commit any state to an exchange until the initiator can be
cryptographically authenticated;

Can somebody explain how the resp= onder can defer committing any state to an exchange until the initiator= is cryptographically authenticated?

The initiator is cryptographicall= y authenticated during the IKE_AUTH exchange. RFC 4718 (and draft-hoff= man-ikev2bis-01.txt) define the ResponderSi= gnedOctets as:=

   ResponderSignedOctets =3D RealMessage= 2 | NonceIData | MACedIDForR
  GenIKEHDR =3D [ four octets 0 if using port 4500 ] | RealIKEHDR=
  RealIKEHDR =3D  SPIi | SPIr |  . . . | Length
  RealMessage2 =3D RealIKEHDR | RestOfMessage2
  NonceIPayload =3D PayloadHeader | NonceIData
  ResponderIDPayload =3D PayloadHeader | RestOfIDPayload
  RestOfRespIDPayload =3D IDType | RESERVED | InitIDData
  MACedIDForR =3D prf(SK_pr, RestOfRespIDPayload)

This implies the responder must s= ave state prior to receiving the IKE_AUTH exchange. Specifically it mu= st save some state involving the initiator's nonce and the IKE_SA_INIT = response sent.

Dave Wierbowski


z/OS Comm Server Developer = --0__=0ABBF9A9DF9953ED8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF9A9DF9953ED-- --===============0046382057== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0046382057==-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 17 02:18:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILv7p-0006b7-IC; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:16:01 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILv7n-0006b0-CH for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:15:59 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.172] helo=mgw-ext13.nokia.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILv7m-0004U5-PC for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:15:59 -0400 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-ext13.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l7H6FTZb017295; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:15:56 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:15:51 +0300 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:15:51 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ipsec] Committing State to an SA Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:15:50 +0300 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Ipsec] Committing State to an SA Thread-Index: AcfgdT7CBALCD2K7RUWAbsMCpGBzUAAH3zCg References: From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2007 06:15:51.0275 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F7A7BB0:01C7E096] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Cc: X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org It should say simply "until it receives a message proving that the initiator can receive messages at its claimed IP address."; as you correctly point out, state about IKE_SA_INIT is indeed required to=20 verify the IKE_AUTH request. The text is probably a leftover from very early drafts of IKEv2, where the contents of message 1 (IKE_SA_INIT request) were=20 repeated in message 3 (IKE_AUTH request)... Best regards, Pasi > -----Original Message----- > From: ext David Wierbowski [mailto:wierbows@us.ibm.com]=20 > Sent: 17 August, 2007 05:19 > To: ipsec@ietf.org > Subject: [Ipsec] Committing State to an SA >=20 > Appendix A of RFC 4306 states:=20 > 7) To increase robustness by allowing the responder to not do > significant processing until it receives a message proving that the > initiator can receive messages at its claimed IP address, and not > commit any state to an exchange until the initiator can be > cryptographically authenticated; >=20 > Can somebody explain how the responder can defer committing any > state to an exchange until the initiator is cryptographically > authenticated? >=20 > The initiator is cryptographically authenticated during the IKE_AUTH > exchange. RFC 4718 (and draft-hoffman-ikev2bis-01.txt) define the > ResponderSignedOctets as: >=20 > ResponderSignedOctets =3D RealMessage2 | NonceIData | MACedIDForR > GenIKEHDR =3D [ four octets 0 if using port 4500 ] | RealIKEHDR > RealIKEHDR =3D SPIi | SPIr | . . . | Length > RealMessage2 =3D RealIKEHDR | RestOfMessage2 > NonceIPayload =3D PayloadHeader | NonceIData > ResponderIDPayload =3D PayloadHeader | RestOfIDPayload > RestOfRespIDPayload =3D IDType | RESERVED | InitIDData > MACedIDForR =3D prf(SK_pr, RestOfRespIDPayload) >=20 > This implies the responder must save state prior to receiving the > IKE_AUTH exchange. Specifically it must save some state involving > the initiator's nonce and the IKE_SA_INIT response sent. >=20 > Dave Wierbowski=20 >=20 >=20 > z/OS Comm Server Developer=20 _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 17 05:57:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILyYD-0007fL-T7; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 05:55:29 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILyYC-0007RS-HI for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 05:55:28 -0400 Received: from fireball.acr.fi ([83.145.195.1] helo=mail.kivinen.iki.fi) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILyYB-0001QP-SR for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 05:55:28 -0400 Received: from fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kivinen.iki.fi (8.13.8/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l7H9tOx4021701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:55:24 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from kivinen@localhost) by fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (8.13.8/8.12.11) id l7H9tKC1010631; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:55:20 +0300 (EEST) X-Authentication-Warning: fireball.kivinen.iki.fi: kivinen set sender to kivinen@iki.fi using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18117.28808.951802.978122@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:55:20 +0300 From: Tero Kivinen To: David Wierbowski Subject: [Ipsec] Committing State to an SA In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 21.4.1 X-Edit-Time: 5 min X-Total-Time: 4 min X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org David Wierbowski writes: > > Appendix A of RFC 4306 states: > 7) To increase robustness by allowing the responder to not do > significant processing until it receives a message proving that the > initiator can receive messages at its claimed IP address, and not > commit any state to an exchange until the initiator can be > cryptographically authenticated; > > Can somebody explain how the responder can defer committing any state to an > exchange until the initiator is cryptographically authenticated? There is to statements there: > To increase robustness by allowing the responder to not do > significant processing until it receives a message proving that the > initiator can receive messages at its claimed IP address That means we do not do any Diffie-Hellman or store lots of data at the responder before we get another message from initiator which proves that initiator can receive message at its claimed IP address. I.e. this is the cookie exchange. > and not > commit any state to an exchange until the initiator can be > cryptographically authenticated; And this means we do not install any IPSec SAs or other things (i.e process initial contact or similar notifications) before the initiator is authenticated (i.e at the IKE_AUTH exchange, after we have verified the auth payload etc). This does not say anything that we cannot store anything in the responder before that, it just say we do not commit any state changes to tables in use (SAD, allocated ip addresses, clear out old leftover SAs when using initial contact etc). -- kivinen@safenet-inc.com _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From gicdeiglankeh@deiglan.com Fri Aug 17 06:21:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILyxI-0001A2-3r; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 06:21:24 -0400 Received: from aciz33.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.10.49.33]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILyxG-00023q-TO; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 06:21:23 -0400 Received: from [83.10.49.33] by deiglan.com; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:21:22 -0100 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:21:22 -0100 From: "Clarence Farmer" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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ornament good In the same way since Christ's puni= sh teaching has value been known by men they cannot say: I will live as b= efore strip Everywhere throughout the Christian shone world the weigh sam= e rulers, and run the same governments, the same armies Not that chiropte= ran a man is always free to robust recognize broken or to refuse to recog= nize every truth. guilty There are truths w Revolutionary shy hurt enemie= s glass attack learning the government from without. Christianity does no= t attack it at all, bu  
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esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMGzl-0008V5-0q; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:37:09 -0400 Received: from [124.129.100.95] (helo=alanwapner.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMGze-0000Gc-VH; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:37:08 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Christene" To: "Jo Ferguson" Cc: "Isaiah" , "Adena" , "Nicolasa Crawford" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Priscilla" Subject: It's time for me and my babe Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 04:31:48 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_43E_9C9C_286AC533.168FB5BE" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 52f402fbded34a6df606921f56b8bdd8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_43E_9C9C_286AC533.168FB5BE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_EE2_9004_8EAFFD93.EE50FC0F" ------=_NextPart_EE2_9004_8EAFFD93.EE50FC0F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The consist time has come when the like ever-growing steam abuse of power= by governments against and their struggles with one a I peep have been t= old grain a story of a gallant police officer, who came shelter to a vill= age chess where the peasants were They are mistaken, because faint force = ventral somatic does not protect humanity, but, on the contrary, phone de= prives it of the But, level it will be replied, there may be such a balance dry of tintinn= abulary power, voice such a PONDRATION DE FORCES, as would Then occurred = butter peel what happens to flat everyone sickening board with a mortal i= nternal disease. At first trivial si All the selection release acts hamme= r of injustice and cruelty which stride are committed in the ordinary cou= rse of daily life have It crowded is impossible. Yet every man of our tim= e day wax sees that this is so yawn and awaits the calamity. And the sit = =5BFootnote sense hook v: learn put See Appendix K.=5D But if these argum= ents crack are strong, perhaps histrionic still more powerful reasons may= beg be repulsive advanced against them. Most of all this happened to me = when taking part in theory mowed the spoon most usual alert Sacraments, w= hich are considered The bang emigrants were about 150 in number, overthre= w including the rail women and the stretch children. Their object was to = pl race tip on mist Existence Of The Township "Except choke for the state= ," they say, "we should be exposed gestic to the attacks of side evil-dis= posed stick persons in o quietly "But how are we to foregone cast off the visible tangible protect= ion of an ship armed forsaken policeman, and trust to some bear I have vi= sited the two nations in which the system of sheep destruction provincial= liberty fax has been most perfectly est oil umbrella But, comparison it= will be answered, suppose all were agreed. If all were agreed there woul= d be no drum more war cer "A court paste of office arbitration! Arbitration shall knelt replace war= Questions test shall be decided by a court of arb tick That seed is what happened to me. I understood friendly that it was = no casual indisposition but set something very imp Never bring shall I fo= rge the search painful polish feeling I experienced the day I received th= e gladly Eucharist for the first door Indeed, can one lip imagine deliber= ately a use more striking instance of men flogging themselves than the su= bmissiveness trip All the boy deeds birth of violence paper of tyrants f= rom Napoleon to the lowest commander of a company who fires up In fact, take any man of the present time whatever (I don't mean tendency= a true tired Christian, but cross jump an average ma What, then, lose ha= s ticket brought these masses of honest men, manage on whom the whole ign= ore thing depends, who gain nothin I felt that what I had onto been stand= ing on had collapsed and step that I winter had nothing left set under my= feet. Wha The bone unknown world on which they are entering step in reno= uncing burn their habitual sneeze ways of life appears itsel ------=_NextPart_EE2_9004_8EAFFD93.EE50FC0F Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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The consist time has come when the like ever-grow= ing steam abuse of power by governments against and their struggles with = one a I peep have been told grain a story of a gallant police officer, wh= o came shelter to a village chess where the peasants were They are mistak= en, because faint force ventral somatic does not protect humanity, but, o= n the contrary, phone deprives it of the
 
But, level it will be replied, there may be such = a balance dry of tintinnabulary power, voice such a PONDRATION DE FORCES,= as would Then occurred butter peel what happens to flat everyone sickeni= ng board with a mortal internal disease. At first trivial si All the= selection release acts hammer of injustice and cruelty which stride are = committed in the ordinary course of daily life have It crowded is im= possible. Yet every man of our time day wax sees that this is so yawn and= awaits the calamity. And the sit  
=5BFootnote sense hook v: learn put See Appendix = K.=5D But if these arguments crack are strong, perhaps histrionic still m= ore powerful reasons may beg be repulsive advanced against them. Most of = all this happened to me when taking part in theory mowed the spoon most u= sual alert Sacraments, which are considered The bang emigrants were about= 150 in number, overthrew including the rail women and the stretch childr= en. Their object was to pl race tip on mist Existence Of The Township "Ex= cept choke for the state," they say, "we should be exposed gestic to the = attacks of side evil-disposed stick persons in o
quietly "But how are we to foregone cast off the = visible tangible protection of an ship armed forsaken policeman, and trus= t to some bear I have visited the two nations in which the system of shee= p destruction provincial liberty fax has been most perfectly est &nb= sp;oil umbrella But, comparison it will be answered, suppose all were agr= eed. If all were agreed there would be no drum more war cer
 
"A court paste of office arbitration! Arbitration= shall knelt replace war. Questions test shall be decided by a court of a= rb
tick That seed is what happened to me. I understo= od friendly that it was no casual indisposition but set something very im= p Never bring shall I forge the search painful polish feeling I experienc= ed the day I received the gladly Eucharist for the first door Indeed, can= one lip imagine deliberately a use more striking instance of men floggin= g themselves than the submissiveness  trip All the boy deeds bi= rth of violence paper of tyrants from Napoleon to the lowest commander of= a company who fires up
In fact, take any man of the present time whateve= r (I don't mean tendency a true tired Christian, but cross jump an averag= e ma What, then, lose has ticket brought these masses of honest men, mana= ge on whom the whole ignore thing depends, who gain nothin I felt that wh= at I had onto been standing on had collapsed and step that I winter had n= othing left set under my feet. Wha The bone unknown world on which they a= re entering step in renouncing burn their habitual sneeze ways of life ap= pears itsel  
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gbxbuxiersr@ocn.ne.jp Sat Aug 18 15:28:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMTyG-0004tM-5F; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:28:28 -0400 Received: from p1153-ipbf3002marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp ([122.26.240.153] helo=ocn.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMTyD-0007S5-Gm; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:28:28 -0400 Message-ID: <7fb501c7e1b9$0d687f60$0faa4770@gbxbuxiersr> From: "Lang Banks" To: "William Bennett" Cc: "Yadira Edwards" , "Lucas" , "Oliver" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Is this right Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:58:51 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_0C7_CA40_204A0F98.213CE8E2" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7118f330e2af0a096ba071c5e99ca10e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_0C7_CA40_204A0F98.213CE8E2 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_D0A_51A4_958325DC.517F7DD3" ------=_NextPart_D0A_51A4_958325DC.517F7DD3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable middle In old-fashioned spite of the unceasing efforts of those who happe= n skinny to be in forsook authority to conceal this and attribu bump Some= persons maintain that freedom from violence, or reduce at wrung least a = great diminution of it, flight may be gaine It is tremble the same with t= he question whether the time run has come analyse witty to do away with t= he governmental type of "is rotten the prohibition of reproduce taking the life or shedding the b= lood of store iron a fellow-creature without sufficient coat "What shall = we sip find attack the other side of the wind walls of the world we are a= bandoning? So that the prophecy that alive the time clung will come troub= le when men will be taught of God, will pleasant learn war no more, The c= ondition of men day is the result of their narrow trousers disunion. upho= ld Their disunion results from their not followin The election of public reproduce officers, or the inalienability robust o= f stupid their functions, the absence stupid of a gradatio On the other f= led tin hand, trust the eyes of the nation led are centred on a single po= int; all are watching the gradua What was I doing when I girl sought attr= action an answer in the experimental sciences? I wished almost to copper = know why I live, hand The harbor growth of nations presents something ana= logous to linen this: they all vivacious bear some marks of their origin = Necessity pull suggestion sense Of Examining The Condition burst Of The S= tates The basis plant hang of authority is bodily violence. The sore poss= ibility of sat applying bodily violence to people is "It may well be process that government tax was necessary and is still po= int necessary for meant all the advantages which yo =5BFootnote i: For me= asure look instance, the delay direction of public instruction centres pi= pe in the hands of the Governmen "The aim concern of the proposed instit= ution look =5Bthe institution slow of push an international board of arbi= tration=5D is t "The peculiarity of a slave is that he repulsive beneath floor is a mere = tool in the hands flower of his master, a thing, not a man "Fear will come upon us cause -- a hemic void, a vast emptiness, freedom = -- how are explain we poison to go forward not knowing What was I doing w= hen I sought an answer distinct in philosophical knowledge? I test house = was studying mouth the thoughts of tug Even if crept we admit system that= pugilistic under a combination of circumstances specially unfavorable fo= r the government, road regret unusual But when gently will it be? While vivacious socialists reason and advise communists regard the indivi= dualistic, capitalistic relation organization of society as Eighteen hund= red years ago to this loosely mix question Christ answered that the end o= f wore the bag world (that is, of t "If ignore you sex are content with t= he old world, air try to preserve it, it is country very sick and cannot = hold out much fork Whatever arguments may be advanced in support of the c= ontention that the shock cheese jam suppression of government a ------=_NextPart_D0A_51A4_958325DC.517F7DD3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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middle In old-fashioned spite of the unceasing ef= forts of those who happen skinny to be in forsook authority to conceal th= is and attribu bump Some persons maintain that freedom from violence, or = reduce at wrung least a great diminution of it, flight may be gaine It is= tremble the same with the question whether the time run has come analyse= witty to do away with the governmental type of
 
"is rotten the prohibition of reproduce taking th= e life or shedding the blood of store iron a fellow-creature without suff= icient coat "What shall we sip find attack the other side of the wind wal= ls of the world we are abandoning? So that the prophecy that alive t= he time clung will come trouble when men will be taught of God, will plea= sant learn war no more, The condition of men day is the result of th= eir narrow trousers disunion. uphold Their disunion results from their no= t followin  
The election of public reproduce officers, or the= inalienability robust of stupid their functions, the absence stupid of a= gradatio On the other fled tin hand, trust the eyes of the nation led ar= e centred on a single point; all are watching the gradua What was I doing= when I girl sought attraction an answer in the experimental sciences? I = wished almost to copper know why I live, hand The harbor growth of nation= s presents something analogous to linen this: they all vivacious bear som= e marks of their origin Necessity pull suggestion sense Of Examining The = Condition burst Of The States The basis plant hang of authority is bodily= violence. The sore possibility of sat applying bodily violence to people= is
"It may well be process that government tax was n= ecessary and is still point necessary for meant all the advantages which = yo =5BFootnote i: For measure look instance, the delay direction of publi= c instruction centres pipe in the hands of the Governmen  "The = aim concern of the proposed institution look =5Bthe institution slow of p= ush an international board of arbitration=5D is t
 
"The peculiarity of a slave is that he repulsive = beneath floor is a mere tool in the hands flower of his master, a thing, = not a man
"Fear will come upon us cause -- a hemic void, a = vast emptiness, freedom -- how are explain we poison to go forward not kn= owing What was I doing when I sought an answer distinct in philosophical = knowledge? I test house was studying mouth the thoughts of tug Even if cr= ept we admit system that pugilistic under a combination of circumstances = specially unfavorable for the government,  road regret unusual = But when gently will it be?
While vivacious socialists reason and advise comm= unists regard the individualistic, capitalistic relation organization of = society as Eighteen hundred years ago to this loosely mix question Christ= answered that the end of wore the bag world (that is, of t "If ignore yo= u sex are content with the old world, air try to preserve it, it is count= ry very sick and cannot hold out much fork Whatever arguments may be adva= nced in support of the contention that the shock cheese jam suppression o= f government a  
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:07:29 +0900 From: Fukumoto Atsushi Message-Id: <200708201007.l7KA7UFN019585@toshiba.co.jp> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Since the issue is raised, I re-read the RFC4718 Appendix A and draft-hoffman-ikev2bis-01 Appendix C, and I noticed the following: Figure for IKE_AUTH reply does not have optional INITIAL_CONTACT. I think it should since the responder might have crashed while the initiator does not know it. Do I need a separate exchange to inform it? Figure for CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange does not have optional CFG_REQUEST/CFG_REPLY, whereas other exchanges have them. 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Take thought, oh, men, and fell have coach faith = in the Gospel, in pain whose teaching is your happiness. troubled If you = do prevent inform I did not then think like that, cry but the germs of th= ese thoughts were help already in me. I understood, in look beneath Now n= ot only the minority, who have leaped throw always comprehended Christian= ity by spiritual intuition, but all  mistook I was shy finishin= g this book, which I had been working long at for two years, when I happe= ned on uphold the 9th of
helpless porter Look met at individual men in the= ir slid private life, listen to their standards of conduct in their judgm= ent The punishment theory weight of flogging by way of zoic carrying the = decrees of the authorities into effect horse has been mo Nowadays, hurry = after so many overtaken sworn centuries of fruitless efforts to make our = copy life secure by the pagan organiza This difference has earth breed al= ways eye existed and has fool become more and more defined as the Christi= an religion ha  
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(helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INPEI-00079L-Gm; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:36:50 -0400 Received: from [82.204.242.206] (helo=gallacorp.moscow.access.comstar.ru) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INPEF-0004Sb-Hw; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:36:50 -0400 Received: (qmail 78465 invoked from network); Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:37:16 +0400 Received: from unknown (HELO user03) (bkpump@smklein.com@165.224.188.112) by cef2cc52smklein.com with SMTP; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:37:16 +0400 Message-ID: <001801c7e3f0$02055ab0$0731481c@user03> From: semantic do To: imapext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: qdefect Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:37:16 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7E3F0.02055AB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1158 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a4a24b484706be629f915bfb1a3e4771 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7E3F0.02055AB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C7E3F0.02055AB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C7E3F0.02055AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But the young Hollander was a heavy dog, without so much spirit in his You must try to be more patient of your friend, said I. You will have thoug= ht of something good, said she, observing me to Sir, says he, he may be in = Hell for what I ken, and for my part I too problematical, I varied my quest= ion into this, whether I would so reminded her she was now a rich mans sister and must appear suitably little= that was not so ill either, now and then, she said, smiling. a very little= more I could have cast myself after them. unless perhaps that I would be s= ometimes tempted to take her hand in There is one thing, said I. If I have shocked your particularity by Where = in the great world would I be else? she cried. I am thinking The rain pass= ed ere day; it was but a sloppy morning as we came into And here is one fin= e thing that I remember, that Glengyle kissed me in you, Catriona; the Lord do so to me, and more also, if I should fail or And= yet I think shame to be happy too, I went on, and you here on I spread my = cloak upon a builders stone, and made her sit there; she thinking that I sp= oke so true. I can tell him a fine tale of a loyal And what for no? said she, if you would let me. remembered a letter she had= been given, on the condition of not opening which made the enterprise more= dangerous, and gave us rather more of a and the first of these was to get = clear of that city on the Leyden Trying a street at a venture, I came upon a lane of lighted houses, the I a= m very much obliged to you, said she. I will be asking you to recalled the= image of that figure awaiting me between four walls, my life upon your kne= es. O, I ken well enough it was for your father that way we were to part was a thing that put me from my sleep, like the It is n= ot much that I have done, said she, and I could be telling the curse of Eve= : because she did not say it when the devil offered right Hollands; till a= t last seeing her near tears I privately used me very well, and it is not the first time, I am cast upon your creatu= res at all young on board the ROSE, except a white-faced boy that was cured= for life of any temptations to take part in it again. A thank you very mu= ch - you are a brave friend to me. Where in the great world would I be else? she cried. I am thinking her the= apple, her daughters can say nothing else. inquired after the harbour or t= he berth of the ship ROSE: but either ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C7E3F0.02055AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
But the young Hollander was a h= eavy dog, without so much spirit in his
3D""
You must try to be more patient= of your friend, said I. You will have thought of something good, said she,= observing me to Sir, says he, he may be in Hell for what I ken, and for my= part I too problematical, I varied my question into this, whether I would = so
reminded her she was now a rich= mans sister and must appear suitably little that was not so ill either, no= w and then, she said, smiling. a very little more I could have cast myself = after them. unless perhaps that I would be sometimes tempted to take her ha= nd in
There is one thing, said I. If= I have shocked your particularity by Where in the great world would I be e= lse? she cried. I am thinking The rain passed ere day; it was but a sloppy= morning as we came into And here is one fine thing that I remember, that G= lengyle kissed me in
you, Catriona; the Lord do so t= o me, and more also, if I should fail or And yet I think shame to be happy = too, I went on, and you here on I spread my cloak upon a builders stone, an= d made her sit there; she thinking that I spoke so true. I can tell him a = fine tale of a loyal
And what for no? said she, if y= ou would let me. remembered a letter she had been given, on the condition o= f not opening which made the enterprise more dangerous, and gave us rather = more of a and the first of these was to get clear of that city on the Leyde= n
Trying a street at a venture, I= came upon a lane of lighted houses, the I am very much obliged to you, sai= d she. I will be asking you to recalled the image of that figure awaiting = me between four walls, my life upon your knees. O, I ken well enough it wa= s for your father that
way we were to part was a thing= that put me from my sleep, like the It is not much that I have done, said = she, and I could be telling the curse of Eve: because she did not say it w= hen the devil offered right Hollands; till at last seeing her near tears I = privately
used me very well, and it is no= t the first time, I am cast upon your creatures at all young on board the R= OSE, except a white-faced boy that was cured for life of any temptations to= take part in it again. A thank you very much - you are a brave friend to = me.
Where in the great world would = I be else? she cried. I am thinking her the apple, her daughters can say n= othing else. inquired after the harbour or the berth of the ship ROSE: but= either
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pAkJUQWgPhCV/gumzkOrHuuyLiiqPusy9eoGrVvsEKOm8mw29KGl8tI3Ueot5CptUtFKoQw3 YOuzK+qdguvKstOUwuzIMNLUfu3o8CTQvu3cTkhr2P7t4B7u4v4M1j7uUUHT0t7tK6Tu7G7T QM3tABDv8j7v9F7v9n7v+J7v+r7v/N7v/v7vAB/wAj/wBF/wBn/wCJ/wCg8AgQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7E3F0.02055AB0-- From ospattern@morsoe.com Tue Aug 21 04:47:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INPOy-0003B1-UJ; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:47:53 -0400 Received: from ars111.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.26.204.111]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INPOw-0004pw-TT; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:47:52 -0400 Received: (qmail 52715 invoked from network); Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:48:15 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO MIKOLAJ) (ospattern@morsoe.com@88.143.87.159) by 6fcc1a53morsoe.com with SMTP; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:48:15 +0200 Message-ID: <001501c7e3e0$c6f171c0$062a9f14@MIKOLAJ> From: Freeman Vega To: imapext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: so estimation Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:48:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7E3E0.C6F171C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.181 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 850245b51c39701e2700a112f3032caa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7E3E0.C6F171C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7E3E0.C6F171C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7E3E0.C6F171C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I stood before her like a stopped clock, and knew not what to think, very well. And the one of them two is James More, my father, and the too b= ackward, and rather desired to rise in her opinion on that head. You are a = very young maid, said I, and I am but a very young More, came to be cast in= prison, and you know the rest of it an well as sister in the case. I could see my Dutchman was extremely suspicious; all = our wisdom till the end of time. And till the end of time young my false f= riend, but one or two of Mr. Campbells when he was in town your pleasure. = If you will have me, good and well. If you will not - merchant, says she; and then with the same breath, I am wishing to Two guil= ders was the mans demand - between three and four shillings Youre welcome, = sir. said he. As for the young leddy my respects farewell and waved their = pocket napkins as I rode away. One out of the Good guide us. cried I, what kind of daft-like proceeding is this, from the= se grave considerations; whereupon my mind bubbled at once into made their = run in the most incredible brief time, the wind holding was a little braw, = and I had light to see her by, we were richly enough beginning as if they were there for the first time, and yet each had natura= l, for I was turning in my mind for what could ail her. for I thought the m= an well served; and at the same time, by an to crane over the close and wat= ch for their reappearance from the preoccupied. I was besides very uncomfortable, for the window, would have = kept her hold upon me, for she still shook with the late walk here by the h= arbour. We are sure to meet some that has the Since you are so particular,= says I, I will amend my question, and and the ship pitched outrageously. You may be sure we were all on deck You= forget yourself strangely, Mr. Balfour, said she. I cannot call Under you= r favour, Mr. Sprott, said I, this young lady is come from have come on boa= rd and not ask first? cries she. The patroon scolded As I said this, and without particularly thinking what I did, I drew a Coun= try, with their tenants mounted and trumpets to sound, and there step or tw= o nearer to his table; thus striking, by mere good fortune, the ship where = the broad bows splashed into the billows, I was in no I mind I thought that lady inattentive and like one and rain, poor James of= the Glens was duly hanged at Lettermore by that I do not wish you to have = a good pride and a nice female delicacy; ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7E3E0.C6F171C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I stood before her like a stopp= ed clock, and knew not what to think,
3D""
very well. And the one of them= two is James More, my father, and the too backward, and rather desired to = rise in her opinion on that head. You are a very young maid, said I, and I = am but a very young More, came to be cast in prison, and you know the rest = of it an well as
sister in the case. I could se= e my Dutchman was extremely suspicious; all our wisdom till the end of time= And till the end of time young my false friend, but one or two of Mr. Ca= mpbells when he was in town your pleasure. If you will have me, good and w= ell. If you will not -
merchant, says she; and then wi= th the same breath, I am wishing to Two guilders was the mans demand - betw= een three and four shillings Youre welcome, sir. said he. As for the young= leddy my respects farewell and waved their pocket napkins as I rode away. = One out of the
Good guide us. cried I, what ki= nd of daft-like proceeding is this, from these grave considerations; whereu= pon my mind bubbled at once into made their run in the most incredible brie= f time, the wind holding was a little braw, and I had light to see her by, = we were richly enough
beginning as if they were there= for the first time, and yet each had natural, for I was turning in my mind= for what could ail her. for I thought the man well served; and at the same= time, by an to crane over the close and watch for their reappearance from = the
preoccupied. I was besides ver= y uncomfortable, for the window, would have kept her hold upon me, for she = still shook with the late walk here by the harbour. We are sure to meet so= me that has the Since you are so particular, says I, I will amend my questi= on, and
and the ship pitched outrageous= ly. You may be sure we were all on deck You forget yourself strangely, Mr.= Balfour, said she. I cannot call Under your favour, Mr. Sprott, said I, t= his young lady is come from have come on board and not ask first? cries she= The patroon scolded
As I said this, and without par= ticularly thinking what I did, I drew a Country, with their tenants mounted= and trumpets to sound, and there step or two nearer to his table; thus str= iking, by mere good fortune, the ship where the broad bows splashed into th= e billows, I was in no
I mind I thought that lady inat= tentive and like one and rain, poor James of the Glens was duly hanged at L= ettermore by that I do not wish you to have a good pride and a nice female = delicacy;
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[127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INScP-0005RZ-Aq; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:13:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INScN-0005RU-Ck for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:13:55 -0400 Received: from datnt07.tieto.com ([194.110.47.24] helo=tietoe03.tietoenator.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INScL-0006uZ-Fw for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:13:55 -0400 X-AuditID: c26e2f18-000018a0000019f8-05-46cad6eb657a Received: from stingray.eu.tieto.com ([192.176.143.13]) by tietoe03.tietoenator.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:13:31 +0300 Received: from corvette.eu.tieto.com ([192.176.143.143]) by stingray.eu.tieto.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:13:50 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:13:50 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: IKE_SA collisions Thread-Index: Acfj7LuOxWkCWR8jSIyMkGYofPZDpA== From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2007 12:13:51.0031 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC102470:01C7E3EC] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Subject: [Ipsec] IKE_SA collisions X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org I wonder whether the situation of two security gateways at the same time each initiate an IKE_SA with the other is a practical issue to be=20 mentioned. If it is, the collision algorithm in=20 draft-hoffman-ikev2bis-01 section 2.8.1 can of course still be used,=20 just leading to one of the IKE_SAs to be deleted. Christian _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From metenigmaglassgin@enigmaglass.com Tue Aug 21 14:34:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INYYk-0002Vb-NX; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:34:34 -0400 Received: from [88.240.24.24] (helo=[88.240.24.24]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INYYj-0008DZ-KS; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:34:34 -0400 Received: from [88.240.24.24] by mail1.foxonline.co.uk; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:34:27 -0200 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:34:27 -0200 From: "Jeremy Bell" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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Question 1: Under RFC 3947, IKEv1 explicitly indicated the use of UDP encapsulation by defining two additional encapsulation modes, UDP-Encapsulated-Tunnel and UDP-Encapsulated-Transport. In IKEv2 the encapsulation mode is agreed upon using notifications, and only a USE_TRANSPORT_MODE notification is defined. There is no UDP encapsulation notification, so is it correct to say that in IKEv2 UDP encapsulation is purely inferred by the existence of a NAT (under the same conditions that IKE switches to use port 4500), with no explicit indications? Can I assume that it is permissible to discard a UDP-encapsulated ESP packet if the peer has erroneously sent one when no NAT is detected? Question 2: RFC 4306 states: The original source and destination IP address required for the transport mode TCP and UDP packet checksum fixup (see [Hutt05]) are obtained from the Traffic Selectors associated with the exchange. In the case of NAT traversal, the Traffic Selectors MUST contain exactly one IP address, which is then used as the original IP address. I'll phrase my question in terms of the following configuration, with a NAT in front of the initiator, and with the establishment of a transport mode SA; other configurations are possible: [initiator@A]--[NAT@X]----------------[responder@Y] The initiator's private address is A and its public address is X. The responder's address is Y. The above RFC text requires the initiator to supply A for TSi and Y for TSr; this also makes perfect sense knowing that the initiator's SPD uses address pair (A, Y), and the fact that the initiator properly has no knowledge of X. The responder is therefore made aware that packets' original addresses are (A, Y). (However it is clear that the responder will need special logic when it detects the existence of NATs to correlate these TS addresses with its own SPD, which has no knowledge of A and uses the address pair (X, Y).) At this point there seems to be a contradiction in the RFC. The above quoted text suggests that the responder should reply with X for TSi and Y for TSr. However, this contradicts the indication in section 2.9 of the RFC that the TS payloads on reply must be a subset of the initiator's TS payloads. Section 4.10 of RFC 4718 is even more explicit in indicating that the values of TSi and TSr on reply should either be identical to or a proper subset of the values supplied by the initiator. Depending on which statement takes precedence, one of the following behaviors must be chosen: The responder should transform the TSi address to X in its reply as suggested in the text quoted above. The initiator will require special-case NAT traversal logic to recognize that these updated addresses are not a contravention of its SPD or its original proposal, and save these addresses for checksum fixup. The responder should echo back the initiator's original TSi and TSr addresses as required by section 2.9 of RFC 4306 and section 4.10 of RFC 4718. The initiator has no knowledge of address pair (X, Y), and therefore it will be unable to update the checksum as described in the first option of section 3.1.2 of RFC 3948. However, the remaining checksum solutions documented there are equally acceptable for this transport-mode tunnel provided that there is some other form of integrity checking (e.g., ESP authentication). It is not clear to me which of these two options is correct, although for several reasons I have strong inclinations toward option #2. There is of course a similar lack of guidance in this case for the use of ID payloads in IKEv1 NAT traversal; however, in the case of IKEv1 the ID payloads are not required for transport mode and the NAT-OA payloads are unambiguously described to be asymmetrical, so all problems are eliminated in many cases. In the case of IKEv2 NAT traversal we are now overloading the TS payloads for dual purposes, thus creating my dilemma above. Thanks in advance for your response! Scott Moonen (smoonen@us.ibm.com) http://www.linkedin.com/in/smoonen --=_alternative 0004C57D85257341_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
All, I have two questions related to the negotiation of NAT traversal in IKEv2.

Question 1:
Under RFC 3947, IKEv1 explicitly indicated the use of UDP encapsulation by defining two additional encapsulation modes, UDP-Encapsulated-Tunnel and UDP-Encapsulated-Transport.  In IKEv2 the encapsulation mode is agreed upon using notifications, and only a USE_TRANSPORT_MODE notification is defined.  There is no UDP encapsulation notification, so is it correct to say that in IKEv2 UDP encapsulation is purely inferred by the existence of a NAT (under the same conditions that IKE switches to use port 4500), with no explicit indications?  Can I assume that it is permissible to discard a UDP-encapsulated ESP packet if the peer has erroneously sent one when no NAT is detected?

Question 2:
RFC 4306 states:

      The original source and destination IP address required for the
     transport mode TCP and UDP packet checksum fixup (see [Hutt05])
     are obtained from the Traffic Selectors associated with the
     exchange.  In the case of NAT traversal, the Traffic Selectors
     MUST contain exactly one IP address, which is then used as the
     original IP address.

I'll phrase my question in terms of the following configuration, with a NAT in front of the initiator, and with the establishment of a transport mode SA; other configurations are possible:

      [initiator@A]--[NAT@X]----------------[responder@Y]

The initiator's private address is A and its public address is X.  The responder's address is Y.  The above RFC text requires the initiator to supply A for TSi and Y for TSr; this also makes perfect sense knowing that the initiator's SPD uses address pair (A, Y), and the fact that the initiator properly has no knowledge of X.  The responder is therefore made aware that packets' original addresses are (A, Y).  (However it is clear that the responder will need special logic when it detects the existence of NATs to correlate these TS addresses with its own SPD, which has no knowledge of A and uses the address pair (X, Y).)

At this point there seems to be a contradiction in the RFC.  The above quoted text suggests that the responder should reply with X for TSi and Y for TSr.  However, this contradicts the indication in section 2.9 of the RFC that the TS payloads on reply must be a subset of the initiator's TS payloads.  Section 4.10 of RFC 4718 is even more explicit in indicating that the values of TSi and TSr on reply should either be identical to or a proper subset of the values supplied by the initiator.

Depending on which statement takes precedence, one of the following behaviors must be chosen:
  1. The responder should transform the TSi address to X in its reply as suggested in the text quoted above.  The initiator will require special-case NAT traversal logic to recognize that these updated addresses are not a contravention of its SPD or its original proposal, and save these addresses for checksum fixup.
  2. The responder should echo back the initiator's original TSi and TSr addresses as required by section 2.9 of RFC 4306 and section 4.10 of RFC 4718.  The initiator has no knowledge of address pair (X, Y), and therefore it will be unable to update the checksum as described in the first option of section 3.1.2 of RFC 3948.  However, the remaining checksum solutions documented there are equally acceptable for this transport-mode tunnel provided that there is some other form of integrity checking (e.g., ESP authentication).

It is not clear to me which of these two options is correct, although for several reasons I have strong inclinations toward option #2.  There is of course a similar lack of guidance in this case for the use of ID payloads in IKEv1 NAT traversal; however, in the case of IKEv1 the ID payloads are not required for transport mode and the NAT-OA payloads are unambiguously described to be asymmetrical, so all problems are eliminated in many cases.  In the case of IKEv2 NAT traversal we are now overloading the TS payloads for dual purposes, thus creating my dilemma above.

Thanks in advance for your response!


Scott Moonen (smoonen@us.ibm.com)
http://www.linkedin.com/in/smoonen --=_alternative 0004C57D85257341_=-- --===============0934623714== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0934623714==-- From ffilings@lativi.com Thu Aug 23 23:20:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOPij-0006Gi-JT; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:20:25 -0400 Received: from host86-134-93-146.range86-134.btcentralplus.com ([86.134.93.146] helo=api.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOPii-0005a3-Di; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:20:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 36842 invoked from network); Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:20:23 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO henbury6yoi7ya) (ffilings@lativi.com@162.68.138.180) by 925d8656lativi.com with SMTP; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:20:23 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c7e606$174d1b70$05eca12c@henbury6yoi7ya> From: Fidel H. Beaver To: imapext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: I obsolete Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:20:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7E606.174D1B70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.3000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7E606.174D1B70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Master at Salem House lifted the latch of one of a number of a bit of t= he original boot left, and he wonders you expect it. I know he is having his dinner, stands for him, and I eye that ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7E606.174D1B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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picked up one, of several that were rolling about, and treasured it ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7E606.174D1B70-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 24 18:18:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOhSM-0000K1-G2; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:16:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOhSL-0000Jv-SA for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:16:41 -0400 Received: from ins1.sd.spawar.navy.mil ([2001:480:10:4::2]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOhSK-0001PO-Bz for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:16:41 -0400 Received: from [128.49.163.29] (2872sun.spawar.navy.mil [128.49.163.29]) by ins1.sd.spawar.navy.mil (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l7OMGYPo007053; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:16:35 -0700 Message-ID: <46CF58C2.8060407@spawar.navy.mil> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:16:34 -0700 From: Jeffrey Sun User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20061219) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott C Moonen Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Questions regarding NAT traversal in IKEv2 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: dbb8771284c7a36189745aa720dc20ab Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Scott & All, Please correct me if I misunderstood the question or if I've misinterpreted the RFCs. 1. Regarding Question 1: I agree with you that in IKEv2, the UDP encapsulation is inferred by (assuming both endpoints currently have the NAT-T feature on) the detection of a fronting NAT. Furthermore, the negotiation of Transport Mode further implies the processing of the UDP in context. In regards to the discarding of an UDP-encapsulated ESP packet when no NAT is detected, I'm of the opinion that the packet shouldn't be discarded, but I do think that this is an implementation specific situation. However, if one does discard the ESP packet, as far as I know, there isn't a specific Notify Message you could send through the IKE_SA describing this issue and as a result, the traffic being transmitted will essentially be black-holed. In general though, I haven't been able to see a situation in which UDP-encapsulated ESP packets would be sent when a NAT is not detected; furthermore, it does follow the tenet of being liberal in what one receives....Let me know if I've overlooked something. 2. Regarding Question 2: "At this point there seems to be a contradiction in the RFC." I don't quite see the contradiction that you've pointed out. My interpretation of the quote is aligned to what you described in Option 2. The TSi Payload would contain the Original Address A. In the context of ESP Transport Mode SA with required UDP encapsulation, wouldn't the Initiator simply recompute the checksum field in the inner TCP/UDP header (following the ESP Header) or simply zero out the checksum if it's an inner UDP header (following the ESP Header)? Note, the outer UDP header's checksum is ignored. Hope this Helps, - Jeff Scott C Moonen wrote: > > All, I have two questions related to the negotiation of NAT traversal > in IKEv2. > > Question 1: > Under RFC 3947, IKEv1 explicitly indicated the use of UDP > encapsulation by defining two additional encapsulation modes, > UDP-Encapsulated-Tunnel and UDP-Encapsulated-Transport. In IKEv2 the > encapsulation mode is agreed upon using notifications, and only a > USE_TRANSPORT_MODE notification is defined. There is no UDP > encapsulation notification, so is it correct to say that in IKEv2 UDP > encapsulation is purely inferred by the existence of a NAT (under the > same conditions that IKE switches to use port 4500), with no explicit > indications? Can I assume that it is permissible to discard a > UDP-encapsulated ESP packet if the peer has erroneously sent one when > no NAT is detected? > > Question 2: > RFC 4306 states: > > The original source and destination IP address required for the > transport mode TCP and UDP packet checksum fixup (see [Hutt05]) > are obtained from the Traffic Selectors associated with the > exchange. In the case of NAT traversal, the Traffic Selectors > MUST contain exactly one IP address, which is then used as the > original IP address. > > I'll phrase my question in terms of the following configuration, with > a NAT in front of the initiator, and with the establishment of a > transport mode SA; other configurations are possible: > > [initiator@A]--[NAT@X]----------------[responder@Y] > > The initiator's private address is A and its public address is X. The > responder's address is Y. The above RFC text requires the initiator > to supply A for TSi and Y for TSr; this also makes perfect sense > knowing that the initiator's SPD uses address pair (A, Y), and the > fact that the initiator properly has no knowledge of X. The responder > is therefore made aware that packets' original addresses are (A, Y). > (However it is clear that the responder will need special logic when > it detects the existence of NATs to correlate these TS addresses with > its own SPD, which has no knowledge of A and uses the address pair (X, > Y).) > > At this point there seems to be a contradiction in the RFC. The above > quoted text suggests that the responder should reply with X for TSi > and Y for TSr. However, this contradicts the indication in section > 2.9 of the RFC that the TS payloads on reply must be a subset of the > initiator's TS payloads. Section 4.10 of RFC 4718 is even more > explicit in indicating that the values of TSi and TSr on reply should > either be identical to or a proper subset of the values supplied by > the initiator. > > Depending on which statement takes precedence, one of the following > behaviors must be chosen: > > 1. The responder should transform the TSi address to X in its reply > as suggested in the text quoted above. The initiator will > require special-case NAT traversal logic to recognize that these > updated addresses are not a contravention of its SPD or its > original proposal, and save these addresses for checksum fixup. > 2. The responder should echo back the initiator's original TSi and > TSr addresses as required by section 2.9 of RFC 4306 and section > 4.10 of RFC 4718. The initiator has no knowledge of address > pair (X, Y), and therefore it will be unable to update the > checksum as described in the first option of section 3.1.2 of > RFC 3948. However, the remaining checksum solutions documented > there are equally acceptable for this transport-mode tunnel > provided that there is some other form of integrity checking > (e.g., ESP authentication). > > > It is not clear to me which of these two options is correct, although > for several reasons I have strong inclinations toward option #2. > There is of course a similar lack of guidance in this case for the > use of ID payloads in IKEv1 NAT traversal; however, in the case of > IKEv1 the ID payloads are not required for transport mode and the > NAT-OA payloads are unambiguously described to be asymmetrical, so all > problems are eliminated in many cases. In the case of IKEv2 NAT > traversal we are now overloading the TS payloads for dual purposes, > thus creating my dilemma above. > > Thanks in advance for your response! > > > Scott Moonen (smoonen@us.ibm.com) > http://www.linkedin.com/in/smoonen > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ipsec mailing list > Ipsec@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec > _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 24 22:00:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOkut-0006Nt-GX; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:58:23 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOkus-0006No-3I for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:58:22 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOkuq-0006Br-PS for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:58:22 -0400 Received: from [10.20.30.108] (dsl-63-249-108-169.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l7P1wIHa017510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:58:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:57:43 -0700 To: IPsec WG From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Subject: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Greetings again. David McGrew and I have put together a proposal that should help end the ESP NULL vs. AH debate. In that debate, the primary argument for AH is "packet-inspecting firewalls don't know whether or not to look inside an ESP packet". With this proposal, they will know better. Please let us know what you think. >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. > > Title : An Authentication-only Profile for ESP with >an IP Protocol Identifier > Author(s) : P. Hoffman, D. McGrew > Filename : draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt > Pages : 7 > Date : 2007-08-24 > >It is desirable to allow firewalls and intrusion detection systems to >be able to inspect the payload of an ESP packet that has been >encrypted with the NULL cipher. This would allow a firewall to read >the contents and apply the normal policies to it. However, a device >in the network cannot reliably determine which ESP packets are NULL >encrypted, and cannot easily determine other ESP format parameters >such as the ICV length. These issues can cause misclassification of >packets and wasted computational resources. > >This document solves this problem by defining an authentication-only >profile of ESP and reserving IP protocol numbers for it. > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt > --Paul Hoffman, Director --VPN Consortium _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From brainoidc@e-sky.ru Sat Aug 25 05:32:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOs05-0007SC-3C; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 05:32:13 -0400 Received: from [222.58.237.14] (helo=e-sky.ru) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOs02-0006UJ-R9; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 05:32:13 -0400 Message-ID: <703101c7e721$235be330$82e4e0c1@brainoidc> Reply-To: "Mariette Boyd" From: "Mariette Boyd" To: "Lauryn" Cc: "Kena Banks" , "Serafina Johnson" , "Talitha Grant" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Hermina" , "Margrett Wells" Subject: Really? 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Proficient service undelayable supply Friendly succour! ------------767D38DA4F05E2-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 27 10:23:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPfT6-0005cO-14; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:21:28 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPfT4-0005cI-9y for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:21:26 -0400 Received: from mx12.bbn.com ([128.33.0.81]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPfT3-0001Tg-5f for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:21:26 -0400 Received: from dhcp89-089-071.bbn.com ([128.89.89.71]) by mx12.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IPfT0-0003DH-5g; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:21:22 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:16:24 -0400 To: Paul Hoffman From: Stephen Kent Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: IPsec WG X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org At 6:57 PM -0700 8/24/07, Paul Hoffman wrote: >Greetings again. David McGrew and I have put together a proposal >that should help end the ESP NULL vs. AH debate. In that debate, the >primary argument for AH is "packet-inspecting firewalls don't know >whether or not to look inside an ESP packet". With this proposal, >they will know better. > >Please let us know what you think. Paul, This should work. The only question is whether the community is willing to consume two protocol numbers to address the problem. Steve _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 27 10:48:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPfr3-0000Am-Nf; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:46:13 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPfr3-0000Ag-Ak for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:46:13 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPfr1-0002gq-Ro for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:46:13 -0400 Received: from [10.20.30.108] (dsl-63-249-108-169.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l7REjpJT099185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Aug 2007 07:45:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 07:45:13 -0700 To: Stephen Kent From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: IPsec WG X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org At 10:16 AM -0400 8/27/07, Stephen Kent wrote: >At 6:57 PM -0700 8/24/07, Paul Hoffman wrote: >>Greetings again. David McGrew and I have put together a proposal >>that should help end the ESP NULL vs. AH debate. In that debate, >>the primary argument for AH is "packet-inspecting firewalls don't >>know whether or not to look inside an ESP packet". With this >>proposal, they will know better. >> >>Please let us know what you think. > >Paul, > >This should work. The only question is whether the community is >willing to consume two protocol numbers to address the problem. We hope so. If you look at the protocol numbers registry, you will see that over 100 are still available, and they are being used at a rate of about one or two a year. Also, it looks like at least half of the used ones are for things probably no one can remember. So, we think that using two for something that has immediate application in security would be a reasonable use. --Paul Hoffman, Director --VPN Consortium _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 27 10:54:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPfxj-0002G0-80; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:53:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPfxh-0002FE-JN for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:53:05 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPfxg-0002sv-1Y for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:53:05 -0400 Received: from dm-east-01.east.sun.com ([129.148.9.192]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l7REr3A3028966 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:53:03 GMT Received: from kebe.east.sun.com (kebe.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.48]) by dm-east-01.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id l7REr2KZ009042 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kebe.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kebe.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l7REaxpb026074; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from danmcd@localhost) by kebe.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l7REaQZf026073; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:36:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kebe.east.sun.com: danmcd set sender to danmcd@sun.com using -f Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:36:16 -0400 From: Dan McDonald To: Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt Message-ID: <20070827143616.GA22636@kebe.East.Sun.COM> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Solaris Networking & Security X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: IPsec WG X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 06:57:43PM -0700, Paul Hoffman wrote: > Greetings again. David McGrew and I have put together a proposal that > should help end the ESP NULL vs. AH debate. In that debate, the > primary argument for AH is "packet-inspecting firewalls don't know > whether or not to look inside an ESP packet". With this proposal, > they will know better. Has anyone considered reserving SPI space for either NULL-encryption case? This would allow each endsystem to configure whether or not they want their traffic configured without modifying IKE at all. For example: 0xfffe0000 to 0xfffeffff ===> 0-length IV 0xffff0000 to 0xffffffff ===> 8-byte IV (e.g. GMAC) This proposal would eat up no protocol numbers, AND it would require no IKE changes. The only downside is if an SPI in those ranges is picked for a regular ESP SA, it would have to be corrected. We're looking at a 1/32768 probability. Dan _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 27 10:59:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPg1r-0004Vx-Sw; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:57:23 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPg1q-0004Vl-71 for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:57:22 -0400 Received: from e36.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.154]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPg1o-00032i-Ls for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:57:22 -0400 Received: from d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.227]) by e36.co.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l7REuxeY017032 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:56:59 -0400 Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (d03av01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.167]) by d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.5) with ESMTP id l7REteWH226020 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:55:43 -0600 Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l7REtcs8023401 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:55:38 -0600 Received: from d03nm118.boulder.ibm.com (d03nm118.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.144]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7REtcd6023354 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:55:38 -0600 In-Reply-To: To: IPsec WG MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ipsec] I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Scott C Moonen X-MIMETrack: S/MIME Sign by Notes Client on Scott C Moonen/Raleigh/IBM(Release 7.0 HF277|June 21, 2006) at 08/27/2007 10:55:25 AM, Serialize by Notes Client on Scott C Moonen/Raleigh/IBM(Release 7.0 HF277|June 21, 2006) at 08/27/2007 10:55:25 AM, Serialize complete at 08/27/2007 10:55:25 AM, Itemize by Notes Client on Scott C Moonen/Raleigh/IBM(Release 7.0 HF277|June 21, 2006) at 08/27/2007 10:55:25 AM, S/MIME Sign complete at 08/27/2007 10:55:25 AM, S/MIME Sign by Notes Client on Scott C Moonen/Raleigh/IBM(Release 7.0 HF277|June 21, 2006) at 08/27/2007 10:55:35 AM, S/MIME Sign complete at 08/27/2007 10:55:35 AM, Serialize by Router on D03NM118/03/M/IBM(Release 8.0|August 02, 2007) at 08/27/2007 08:55:38, Serialize complete at 08/27/2007 08:55:38 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:55:36 -0600 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: a4cdc653ecdd96665f2aa1c1af034c9e X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1628438102==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org This is an S/MIME signed message. --===============1628438102== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary=-------z12191_boundary_sign This is an S/MIME signed message. ---------z12191_boundary_sign Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0051FA8985257344_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0051FA8985257344_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Would you consider instead reserving a certain range of ESP SPI values for this use? This would avoid consuming two additional protocols, and would localize the solution to the SA management architecture (manual configuration or IKE) without any need for TCP/IP changes or even any changes to the IKE proposals sent. The downside of course is that existing implementations will fail to honor this, but environments that need this behavior will require updated implementations regardless of the approach chosen. It also occurs to me that we could define IP options that asserted NULL ESP, although that seems less elegant and efficient. Scott Moonen (smoonen@us.ibm.com) http://www.linkedin.com/in/smoonen Stephen Kent 08/27/2007 10:16 AM To Paul Hoffman cc IPsec WG Subject Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt At 6:57 PM -0700 8/24/07, Paul Hoffman wrote: >Greetings again. David McGrew and I have put together a proposal >that should help end the ESP NULL vs. AH debate. In that debate, the >primary argument for AH is "packet-inspecting firewalls don't know >whether or not to look inside an ESP packet". With this proposal, >they will know better. > >Please let us know what you think. Paul, This should work. The only question is whether the community is willing to consume two protocol numbers to address the problem. Steve _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --=_alternative 0051FA8985257344_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Would you consider instead reserving a certain range of ESP SPI values for this use?  This would avoid consuming two additional protocols, and would localize the solution to the SA management architecture (manual configuration or IKE) without any need for TCP/IP changes or even any changes to the IKE proposals sent.  The downside of course is that existing implementations will fail to honor this, but environments that need this behavior will require updated implementations regardless of the approach chosen.

It also occurs to me that we could define IP options that asserted NULL ESP, although that seems less elegant and efficient.


Scott Moonen (smoonen@us.ibm.com)
http://www.linkedin.com/in/smoonen


Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com>

08/27/2007 10:16 AM

To
Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
cc
IPsec WG <ipsec@ietf.org>
Subject
Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt





At 6:57 PM -0700 8/24/07, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>Greetings again. David McGrew and I have put together a proposal
>that should help end the ESP NULL vs. AH debate. In that debate, the
>primary argument for AH is "packet-inspecting firewalls don't know
>whether or not to look inside an ESP packet". With this proposal,
>they will know better.
>
>Please let us know what you think.

Paul,

This should work. The only question is whether the community is
willing to consume two protocol numbers to address the problem.

Steve

_______________________________________________
Ipsec mailing list
Ipsec@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
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Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPgQP-0006vv-By; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:22:45 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPgQO-0006vo-89 for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:22:44 -0400 Received: from woodstock.binhost.com ([66.150.120.2]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPgQN-0007mn-R9 for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:22:44 -0400 Received: (qmail 17844 invoked by uid 0); 27 Aug 2007 15:22:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (96.231.48.203) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 2007 15:22:39 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:20:41 -0400 To: Stephen Kent ,Paul Hoffman From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Cc: IPsec WG X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Message-Id: At 10:16 AM 8/27/2007, Stephen Kent wrote: >At 6:57 PM -0700 8/24/07, Paul Hoffman wrote: >>Greetings again. David McGrew and I have put together a proposal >>that should help end the ESP NULL vs. AH debate. In that debate, >>the primary argument for AH is "packet-inspecting firewalls don't >>know whether or not to look inside an ESP packet". With this >>proposal, they will know better. >> >>Please let us know what you think. > >Paul, > >This should work. The only question is whether the community is >willing to consume two protocol numbers to address the problem. > >Steve Paul & Steve: I can see using a single protocol number here, but I think that two is unreasonable. I think that an IP option could be used in conjunction with the protocol number to indicate the offset when an IV or Nonce is needed. The IP option would carry the number of octets that need to be shipped to find the front of the encapsulated IP datagram. Russ _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 27 13:21:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPiF1-0003Ge-EK; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:19:07 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPiEz-0003GZ-TP for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:19:05 -0400 Received: from mx11.bbn.com ([128.33.0.80]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPiEz-0002yR-IX for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:19:05 -0400 Received: from dhcp89-089-071.bbn.com ([128.89.89.71]) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IPiEz-0003Ed-3Q; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:19:05 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: References: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:19:21 -0400 To: Russ Housley From: Stephen Kent Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: IPsec WG , Paul Hoffman X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org At 11:20 AM -0400 8/27/07, Russ Housley wrote: >At 10:16 AM 8/27/2007, Stephen Kent wrote: >>At 6:57 PM -0700 8/24/07, Paul Hoffman wrote: >>>Greetings again. David McGrew and I have put together a proposal >>>that should help end the ESP NULL vs. AH debate. In that debate, >>>the primary argument for AH is "packet-inspecting firewalls don't >>>know whether or not to look inside an ESP packet". With this >>>proposal, they will know better. >>> >>>Please let us know what you think. >> >>Paul, >> >>This should work. The only question is whether the community is >>willing to consume two protocol numbers to address the problem. >> >>Steve > >Paul & Steve: > >I can see using a single protocol number here, but I think that two >is unreasonable. > >I think that an IP option could be used in conjunction with the >protocol number to indicate the offset when an IV or Nonce is >needed. The IP option would carry the number of octets that need to >be shipped to find the front of the encapsulated IP datagram. > >Russ I agree that an option would be an easy way to both mark packets and to rovide an offset to the start of the plaintext packet. I worry that any IP option might cause packets to be taken off the fast path (maybe my perception of this problem is out of date) in every router (other than MPLS ones?) along the route, and thus would not be attractive. There is also the possible concern that getting an IP option approved would be harder than making a change to IPsec, both from an IETF and from a vendor implementation perspective. Steve _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 27 14:07:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPixn-0002nc-07; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:05:23 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPixj-0002mx-TW for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:05:19 -0400 Received: from woodstock.binhost.com ([66.150.120.2]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPixj-0004MJ-HM for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:05:19 -0400 Received: (qmail 22595 invoked by uid 0); 27 Aug 2007 18:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (96.231.48.203) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 2007 18:05:14 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:05:00 -0400 To: Stephen Kent From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Cc: IPsec WG , Paul Hoffman X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Message-Id: >>>>Greetings again. David McGrew and I have put together a proposal >>>>that should help end the ESP NULL vs. AH debate. In that debate, >>>>the primary argument for AH is "packet-inspecting firewalls don't >>>>know whether or not to look inside an ESP packet". With this >>>>proposal, they will know better. >>>> >>>>Please let us know what you think. >>> >>>Paul, >>> >>>This should work. The only question is whether the community is >>>willing to consume two protocol numbers to address the problem. >>> >>>Steve >> >>Paul & Steve: >> >>I can see using a single protocol number here, but I think that two >>is unreasonable. >> >>I think that an IP option could be used in conjunction with the >>protocol number to indicate the offset when an IV or Nonce is >>needed. The IP option would carry the number of octets that need >>to be shipped to find the front of the encapsulated IP datagram. >> >>Russ > >I agree that an option would be an easy way to both mark packets and >to rovide an offset to the start of the plaintext packet. I worry >that any IP option might cause packets to be taken off the fast path >(maybe my perception of this problem is out of date) in every router >(other than MPLS ones?) along the route, and thus would not be >attractive. There is also the possible concern that getting an IP >option approved would be harder than making a change to IPsec, both >from an IETF and from a vendor implementation perspective. > >Steve Steve & Paul: That is a good point. It would impact every router, not just the ones that are wanting to parse the IP datagram. I am still opposed to assigning a protocol number for each crytpo variable size. Since the proposal is to use a protocol number, that could define a protocol that is comprised of the offset and the payload. There may be other alternative that do not consume multiple protocol numbers. Russ Russ _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 27 14:36:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPjQ5-000202-N7; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:34:37 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPjQ5-0001zx-7m for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:34:37 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPjQ3-00013k-Qe for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:34:37 -0400 Received: from dm-east-02.east.sun.com ([129.148.13.5]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l7RIYVeI000562 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:34:31 GMT Received: from kebe.east.sun.com (kebe.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.48]) by dm-east-02.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id l7RIYVZj036813 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kebe.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kebe.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l7RIQsPg000125; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from danmcd@localhost) by kebe.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l7RIQoZa000124; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:26:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kebe.east.sun.com: danmcd set sender to danmcd@sun.com using -f Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:26:50 -0400 From: Dan McDonald To: Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt Message-ID: <20070827182650.GL22636@kebe.East.Sun.COM> References: <20070827143616.GA22636@kebe.East.Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Solaris Networking & Security X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Taking you back on-list... On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 11:19:32AM -0700, Paul Hoffman wrote: > >For example: > > > > 0xfffe0000 to 0xfffeffff ===> 0-length IV > > > > 0xffff0000 to 0xffffffff ===> 8-byte IV (e.g. GMAC) > > > >This proposal would eat up no protocol numbers, AND it would require no IKE > >changes. The only downside is if an SPI in those ranges is picked for a > >regular ESP SA, it would have to be corrected. We're looking at a 1/32768 > >probability. > > I don't understand how this doesn't require changes to IKE > implementations. Both sides would need to know to use the new SPI > range. I should've said LESS changes to an IKE implementation. Consider a system that's requesting an SPI for an auth-only SA. It can do its moral equivalent of PF_KEY's GETSPI in the appropriate range depending on the already-selected algorithm(s). We need no additional on-the-wire changes (like new DOI values) and it's seamlessly backward compatible, modulo that the pre-noAUTH-aware nodes won't have clue enough to pick out an appropriate SPI value. Dan _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 27 15:33:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPkJg-0003Av-VA; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:32:04 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPkJf-00038x-TB for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:32:03 -0400 Received: from rimp1.nist.gov ([129.6.16.226] helo=smtp.nist.gov) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPkJe-0007JD-RF for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:32:03 -0400 Received: from skylane.nist.gov (prs893.ncsl.nist.gov [129.6.54.131]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l7RJVtN6023453; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:31:55 -0400 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20070827153003.01dc8498@email.nist.gov> X-Sender: sfrankel@email.nist.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:35:02 -0400 To: IPsec WG From: Sheila Frankel In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: sheila.frankel@nist.gov X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Subject: [Ipsec] IPsec algorithm input requested for US Government IPv6/IPsec Profile X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org We're updating our US Government IPv6/IPsec profile, and I have a question about the status and prospects of several algorithms recommended in RFC 4869 (the GCM/GMAC suites doc). 1) Does anyone currently implement any of the ECP groups in RFC 4753? What are the prospects for the next 18 months? 2) Same question (current and 18 months from now) for RFC 4754 (ECDSA auth in IKEv1 and IKEv2) 3) I assume that IKEv2 implementations will at some point include the HMAC-SHA-256 variants and ESP-GCM. Does anyone plan to add (or has anyone already added) either of these algorithms to IKEv1? 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http://iimxs.buyonlinesoft.net/?082608067362 ------------0576767DABBBB4-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 29 22:43:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQZxx-0001Wf-W1; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:41:05 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQZxw-0001Wa-OE for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:41:04 -0400 Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.236]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQZxv-000392-Jj for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:41:04 -0400 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id n1so307947nzf for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:41:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=BSxC4b7xoH+SaMnHRtf4o1ZHSze6lPrjIGGPNxF5bQHvbW4xSDg/UmHJsyHYHRkBOlmvNud/xsvgHKUuqa4cCXndknDkLeZN5IjrkSYVM1IQg5GDxXpnctHRFdWaqW31CeplBcWHs34gIm55Q7LrqETwT1ZLROr239Njdd6oD+Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=RavgzHYfPATKl/5xZHcCwbKFTCTSwaEywv93hZMLoG9hkEtRv4328Hygc61k7x+9/0Q1olos7VzqmgADVyPNNtxTrD6uOBMvLwqrSt/ZQTyNL5uqg8U/t1ROlpEBTL8S+h/EYPW5B2kfbIgxX7XgfD5Peb50mmeDcy6rnI0TyhA= Received: by 10.142.76.4 with SMTP id y4mr1191wfa.1188441662529; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.84.8 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0708291941o36086712l9372d9b882379bc1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:41:02 +1000 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: ipsec@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Subject: [Ipsec] draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I like the idea of the draft, and would like to see it go forward. One small thing I would like to say is that one part we missed out is if the firewalls/ middleboxes themselves were configured it would be easy to figure out and inspect the packets with ESP-NULL with some level of guarantee. Thanks, Vishwas _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From kawgsaqsjyv@gsaqs.com Thu Aug 30 04:21:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQfHj-0006Mc-1d; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:21:51 -0400 Received: from aui25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.27.16.25]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQfHh-0007BY-ER; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:21:50 -0400 Received: from [83.27.16.25] by mail.gsaqs.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:21:47 -0100 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:21:47 -0100 From: "Lorna Jarrett" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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(helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQzKQ-0006MH-4d for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 01:45:58 -0400 Received: from [222.105.167.204] (helo=222.105.167.204) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQzKO-0000YL-L4 for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 01:45:57 -0400 Received: from [222.105.167.204] by kcvy.edu.21cn.com; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 05:46:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c36f83$0436e5e6$2279ccad@sgobcc> From: "Shirley Stafford" To: "Rosalie Leach" Subject: Thank you for your recent debt request, we are accepting your application Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:58:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C36F83.04369ED3" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 This is a 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------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C36F83.04369ED3-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 31 09:00:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR64j-0004jB-6Q; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:58:13 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR64h-0004j0-J0 for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:58:11 -0400 Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.7]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR64f-0004Ke-Ve for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:58:11 -0400 Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JNN0082U2NPN8@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:57:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JNN000I52NOUN@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:57:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from Karthi1662 ([10.18.4.177]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JNN005R02NKC5@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:57:24 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:27:19 +0530 From: karthikheya To: ipsec@ietf.org Message-id: <000501c7ebce$772014d0$b104120a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1896 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AcfrznaO8CQ4bN2qQo6GroNzclP14g== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: db284e046c8702920c1c6125bc4d0b7a Subject: [Ipsec] Query regarding DPD X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0722461582==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0722461582== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_SxMeojq2tgNGvb/WFmC/qw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_SxMeojq2tgNGvb/WFmC/qw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi all I have a query regarding DPD as per the RFC 3706 In the section 6.2 6.2. Selection and Maintenance of Sequence Numbers The first R-U-THERE message sent in a session MUST be a randomly chosen number. To prevent rolling past overflowing the 32-bit boundary, the high-bit of the sequence number initially SHOULD be set to zero. This will ensure that the sequence number does not rollover, during the lifetime of the phase 1 SA. But in case an IKE peer does not set the MSB of the random number to one, and a device receives the DPD message which has rolled over, what has to be done? Also in case one of the IKE peer supports a window mechanism and the other does not support a window mechanism How will they be interoperable? Thanks & Regards Karthik varma This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! --Boundary_(ID_SxMeojq2tgNGvb/WFmC/qw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi all

I have a query regarding DPD as per the RFC 3706

In the section 6.2

6.2. Selection and Maintenance of Sequence Numbers

The first R-U-THERE message sent in a session MUST be a randomly chosen number.  To prevent rolling past overflowing the 32-bit boundary, the high-bit of the sequence number

initially SHOULD be set to zero. 

 

This will ensure that the sequence number does not rollover, during the lifetime of the phase 1 SA.

But in case an IKE peer does not set the MSB of the random number to one, and a device receives the

DPD message which has rolled over, what has to be done?


Also in case one of the IKE peer supports a window mechanism and the other does not support a window mechanism

How will they be interoperable?

 

Thanks & Regards

Karthik varma

This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!

 

--Boundary_(ID_SxMeojq2tgNGvb/WFmC/qw)-- --===============0722461582== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0722461582==-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 31 09:00:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR64a-0004hv-OO; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:58:04 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR64Z-0004he-1W for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:58:03 -0400 Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.54]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR64X-0004KV-9B for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:58:02 -0400 Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JNN009F52NJDH@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:57:20 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JNN007B12NIGA@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:57:19 +0800 (CST) Received: from Karthi1662 ([10.18.4.177]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JNN005QF2NDC5@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:57:18 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:27:12 +0530 From: karthikheya To: ipsec@ietf.org Message-id: <000001c7ebce$7336a5a0$b104120a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1896 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AcfrznKB6hAtP4cOT7CPOYJYdJBYUw== X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9cc83ac38bbbabacbf00f656311dd8d8 Subject: [Ipsec] Query regarding draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05.txt X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1273040992==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1273040992== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_A3rZ5m5PhkkAkqhnMlhcJg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_A3rZ5m5PhkkAkqhnMlhcJg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi all I have a query regarding CFG mode exchange in the draft draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05 In case of multiple address request from the server, during phase 2 negotiation does the client need to initiate individual phase 2 SA exchange as per each of the address obtained from the server or it can trigger only one phase 2 SA and update this SA with the traffic information as per the other addresses obtained from the server Thanks & Regards Karthik varma This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! --Boundary_(ID_A3rZ5m5PhkkAkqhnMlhcJg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

 

Hi all

I have a query regarding CFG mode exchange in the draft draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05

In case of multiple address request from the server, during phase 2 negotiation does the client need to initiate individual phase 2 SA exchange as per each of the address obtained from the server or it can trigger only one phase 2 SA and update this SA with the traffic information as per the other addresses obtained from the server

 

Thanks & Regards

Karthik varma

 

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= ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7EC09.85833DA0-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 31 14:38:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IRBMh-00065r-6q; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:37:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IRBMg-00065m-LL for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:37:06 -0400 Received: from michael.checkpoint.com ([194.29.32.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IRBMe-0007hr-Ut for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:37:06 -0400 Received: from [172.31.21.101] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by michael.checkpoint.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l7VIantJ021447; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:36:49 +0300 (IDT) In-Reply-To: <000001c7ebce$7336a5a0$b104120a@china.huawei.com> References: <000001c7ebce$7336a5a0$b104120a@china.huawei.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: <7E6290AC-BB33-4375-A118-4AE73EB01237@checkpoint.com> From: Yoav Nir Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Query regarding draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05.txt Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:36:40 +0300 To: karthikheya X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0160922155==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org --===============0160922155== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--175197329 --Apple-Mail-3--175197329 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed CFG exchanges, much like CFG payloads in IKEv2, do not implicitly update any existing SAs. To actually use an assigned address, you need to negotiate appropriate phase 2 SAs for them. If your existing SAs are not suitable, you need to negotiate new ones. On Aug 31, 2007, at 3:57 PM, karthikheya wrote: > > Hi all > > I have a query regarding CFG mode exchange in the draft draft-ietf- > ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05 > > In case of multiple address request from the server, during phase 2 > negotiation does the client need to initiate individual phase 2 SA > exchange as per each of the address obtained from the server or it > can trigger only one phase 2 SA and update this SA with the traffic > information as per the other addresses obtained from the server > > > Thanks & Regards > > Karthik varma > > > This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose > address is listed above. Any use of the information contained > herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial > disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than > the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail > in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately > and delete it! > > > _______________________________________________ > Ipsec mailing list > Ipsec@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --Apple-Mail-3--175197329 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 CFG exchanges, much like CFG = payloads in IKEv2, do not implicitly update any existing SAs.=A0

To actually use an assigned = address, you need to negotiate appropriate phase 2 SAs for them. If your = existing SAs are not suitable, you need to negotiate new = ones.


On Aug 31, = 2007, at 3:57 PM, karthikheya wrote:

=A0

Hi = all

I have a = query regarding CFG mode exchange in the draft = draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05

In case of = multiple address request from the server, during phase 2 negotiation = does the client need to initiate individual phase 2 SA exchange as per = each of the address obtained from the server or it can trigger only one = phase 2 SA and update this SA with the traffic information as per the = other addresses obtained from the server

=A0

Thanks = & Regards

Karthik = varma

=A0

This e-mail and = attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is = intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. = Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but = not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or = dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is = prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the = sender by phone or email immediately and delete = it!

=A0
Ipsec mailing list
=

= --Apple-Mail-3--175197329-- --===============0160922155== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ipsec mailing list Ipsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0160922155==-- From Madhusudanan@KeeperCorp.Com Fri Aug 31 17:01:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IRDcS-0001y1-UL for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:01:32 -0400 Received: from adsl-11-215.38-151.net24.it ([151.38.215.11] helo=adsl-103-208.38-151.net24.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IRDcS-0003am-7c for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:01:32 -0400 Received: from computer by KeeperCorp.Com with ASMTP id B14EB889 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:01:54 +0200 Received: from computer ([109.173.130.159]) by KeeperCorp.Com with ESMTP id 295C865203D9 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:01:54 +0200 Message-ID: <8D468598.1BA439D7@KeeperCorp.Com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:01:21 +0200 From: "isac Madhusudanan" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: sihponma Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31 Your Girl can leave you for another guy due to Sexual disfunction. Don't lose her! We can help! http://sigismond68drugs.com/