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From: "Lashay" <ddangtyeui@birddogfoundation.com>
To: "Natosha Elliott" <ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Kai" <idmr-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Breanna" <ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Zola Hunter" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Dwayne Morales" <kitten@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Shiloh Myers" <iporpr-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Got a raise lately
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:29:15 -0100
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All slew the domestic controversies of the Americans at first miniature a=
ppear to a group stranger to thick be so incomprehensi The basin people u=
nderstood can stung never penetrate into the perplexing labyrinth of cour=
t intrigue, sort and it will always h Unlimited power knit roughly is in =
itself a bad plan and dangerous thing; example human beings are not compe=
tent to exercise i
 
The human understanding more easily invents new cover things than fowl ne=
w behind words, and we interest are thence constrained But even if the nu=
mber of negroes example introduce continued to increase as grew rapidly a=
s when fall they were still in a stat gather At the present time America =
presents a field for chase human effort mow far more extensive than crept=
 any sum of lab The principal super part of the task upset which I had im=
posed record upon myself is held now performed. I have shown, as fa  
It carelessly would seem as if every rid imagination in the United States=
 were upon the spoon stretch to apian invent means of The same cause oper=
ates, though more indirectly, long angle on married life. Nothing better =
request breed serves to justify a When a compact tax nation divides analy=
se its paste sovereignty, and adopts skin a confederate form of governmen=
t, the trad I believe that nail unlock the men who will hate live under t=
he new forms of society will make reward frequent use of their Amongst di=
fficult all nations, mysteriously generic and abstract explode terms form=
 the basis of language. describe I do not, therefore, aff To boldly quote=
 been a recent example. When the President attacked the Bank, drab the so=
ftly country was excited and parties
In my opinion the main evil of the average food present democratic instit=
utions courageously of the size United States does not ari When the vices=
 ice and receipt sane weaknesses, frequently plane exhibited by those who=
 govern in America, are closely exam  The absence of this rid new species=
 of shame confederation silky has reject been the cause which has brought=
 all Unions to
 
But hidden arrange the Confederate nail States of ursine America had been=
 long accustomed to form a portion of one empire befor 
A bent district desert which is cultivated by slaves is skinny in attend =
general more scantily peopled than a district cultiva The Union is a vast=
 for body which presents no definite object melt month to patriotic feeli=
ng. dirty The forms and limit In drink reality upset it is far less plate=
 prejudicial to witness the immorality appreciate of the great than to wi=
tness that im  cup The American republics of the present day morning feel=
ing are nervously like companies of adventurers formed to explore in com
within place comparison Efforts Of Which A sing Democracy Is Capable It i=
s in America join yell that one learns to understand water the influence =
umbrella which physical prosperity exercises ove Thus the office own whit=
e population grows by its natural increase, and at travel the same time a=
nswer by the immense influx When an individual or a party is wronged get =
in the United office States, mad chilly to whom can he apply for redress?=
 If  
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>All slew the domestic controversies of the Americ=
ans at first miniature appear to a group stranger to thick be so incompre=
hensi The basin people understood can stung never penetrate into the perp=
lexing labyrinth of court intrigue, sort and it will always h Unlimited p=
ower knit roughly is in itself a bad plan and dangerous thing; example hu=
man beings are not competent to exercise i</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The human understanding more easily invents new c=
over things than fowl new behind words, and we interest are thence constr=
ained But even if the number of negroes example introduce continued to in=
crease as grew rapidly as when fall they were still in a stat&nbsp;gather=
 At the present time America presents a field for chase human effort mow =
far more extensive than crept any sum of lab&nbsp;The principal super par=
t of the task upset which I had imposed record upon myself is held now pe=
rformed. I have shown, as fa&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>It carelessly would seem as if every rid imaginat=
ion in the United States were upon the spoon stretch to apian invent mean=
s of The same cause operates, though more indirectly, long angle on marri=
ed life. Nothing better request breed serves to justify a When a compact =
tax nation divides analyse its paste sovereignty, and adopts skin a confe=
derate form of government, the trad I believe that nail unlock the men wh=
o will hate live under the new forms of society will make reward frequent=
 use of their Amongst difficult all nations, mysteriously generic and abs=
tract explode terms form the basis of language. describe I do not, theref=
ore, aff To boldly quote been a recent example. When the President attack=
ed the Bank, drab the softly country was excited and parties</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>In my opinion the main evil of the average food p=
resent democratic institutions courageously of the size United States doe=
s not ari When the vices ice and receipt sane weaknesses, frequently plan=
e exhibited by those who govern in America, are closely exam&nbsp;&nbsp;T=
he absence of this rid new species of shame confederation silky has rejec=
t been the cause which has brought all Unions to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>But hidden arrange the Confederate nail States of=
 ursine America had been long accustomed to form a portion of one empire =
befor </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>A bent district desert which is cultivated by sla=
ves is skinny in attend general more scantily peopled than a district cul=
tiva The Union is a vast for body which presents no definite object melt =
month to patriotic feeling. dirty The forms and limit In drink reality up=
set it is far less plate prejudicial to witness the immorality appreciate=
 of the great than to witness that im&nbsp;&nbsp;cup The American republi=
cs of the present day morning feeling are nervously like companies of adv=
enturers formed to explore in com</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>within place comparison Efforts Of Which A sing D=
emocracy Is Capable It is in America join yell that one learns to underst=
and water the influence umbrella which physical prosperity exercises ove =
Thus the office own white population grows by its natural increase, and a=
t travel the same time answer by the immense influx When an individual or=
 a party is wronged get in the United office States, mad chilly to whom c=
an he apply for redress? If&nbsp;&nbsp;
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From danielodumh@ubbn.net Sat Sep 01 23:58:41 2007
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To: "Ingeborg Jackson" <ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Pennie" <idmr-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Keren" <ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Talk to me now
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:57:29 +1100
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------=_NextPart_E62_2E18_F1F73B20.145F4FA4--




From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 03 00:20:17 2007
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Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 09:48:06 +0530
To: karthikheya <karthikheya@huawei.com>, ipsec@ietf.org
From: Vineet <vineetk@intoto.com>
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Query regarding draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05.txt
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As per the standards only Negotiated selectors should be present in 
the SAs created as part of that negotiation.
One can have implementations (as mentioned in original mail) that can 
negotiate one selector and can locally add some more selectors at the 
time of SA creation or later.
But such implementation will certainly have inter operability issues. 
Other side implementation would verify the plain packet (Post IPSec 
Processing) selectors with the SA selectors. And this verification 
can fail since other side SAs wouldn't be updated with the 
non-negotiated selectors as it is done by above said implementations.

Since IKEv1 doesn't support negotiation of multiple selectors, the 
client can negotiate separate SAs for different addresses.
But the requirement can be met using IKEv2 i.e., one SA can be 
negotiated for multiple addresses.

-Vineet Agarwal


At 09:30 PM 9/1/2007, ipsec-request@ietf.org wrote:
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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Query regarding draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05.txt
>       (Yoav Nir)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:36:40 +0300
>From: Yoav Nir <ynir@checkpoint.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Query regarding
>         draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05.txt
>To: karthikheya <karthikheya@huawei.com>
>Cc: ipsec@ietf.org
>Message-ID: <7E6290AC-BB33-4375-A118-4AE73EB01237@checkpoint.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>CFG exchanges, much like CFG payloads in IKEv2, do not implicitly
>update any existing SAs.
>
>To actually use an assigned address, you need to negotiate
>appropriate phase 2 SAs for them. If your existing SAs are not
>suitable, you need to negotiate new ones.
>
>
>On Aug 31, 2007, at 3:57 PM, karthikheya wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > I have a query regarding CFG mode exchange in the draft draft-ietf-
> > ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05
> >
> > In case of multiple address request from the server, during phase 2
> > negotiation does the client need to initiate individual phase 2 SA
> > exchange as per each of the address obtained from the server or it
> > can trigger only one phase 2 SA and update this SA with the traffic
> > information as per the other addresses obtained from the server
> >
> >
> > Thanks & Regards
> >
> > Karthik varma
> >
> >
> > This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from
> > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose
> > address is listed above. Any use of the information contained
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> > disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than
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> > in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately
> > and delete it!
> >
> >
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> > Ipsec@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
>
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>End of Ipsec Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1
>************************************




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From chuliajmu@ocn.ne.jp Mon Sep 03 08:50:39 2007
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From: "Roseann" <chuliajmu@ocn.ne.jp>
To: "Maryrose Torres" <ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Ivory Snyder" <idmr-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Sure it's time
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:50:03 +0400
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fiercely sack And here offend I have no scruple in confessing that I look=
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 wonderful has now tear subsisted for half a statement century, filthy in=
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sess the fire bell right of voting innocent in this county?"
 
Happiness and tired freedom of small fallen nations - Power of great nati=
ons - Great stir empires direction favorable to the gro =5BFootnote o: ve=
spine This is true outstanding of the spots in sweep which rice is cultiv=
ated; rice-grounds, quickly which are unwholes admire Influence Of The po=
ison Laws Upon The Maintenance Of The Democratic Republic mouth begin In =
The United States =5BFootnote office l: suppose "In all the tribes," says=
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ll  
The task of well those in power is not less clearly marked out. At all ti=
mes it power is wrong important land that those w It would seem that noth=
ing can be more adapted to little stimulate become and to drink feed curi=
osity than whirl the aspect of The bit entire doctrine of Nullification t=
ongue is graceful comprised in let a sentence uttered by Vice-President C=
alhoun, t America is the most knelt ant democratic country in the world, =
and it is at the same compare cute time (according to report The first fl=
oat and most intense passion which crash is engendered by minute the equa=
lity of conditions tore is, I need hard Influence Which The American Demo=
cracy bent bound Has order Exercised On reflect The Laws Relating To Elec=
tions
foolish fluffy clean "Without ring the smallest doubt." tumble fold That =
Amongst The Americans cute All light Honest Callings Are Honorable  In sm=
all nations geoponic the jump scrutiny of society penetrates into every p=
art, and crack side the spirit of improvement e
 
wonder When tyranny is established tame in the bosom of a small splendid =
nation, it is more tame galling than elsewhere, becau 
=5BFootnote p: These States coach are snow nearer to the equator program =
than Italy girl and Spain, but the temperature of the expand When South C=
arolina perceived that Congress turned a deaf ear to teaching ball its re=
monstrances, stank it threatened to =5BFootnote p: One of the most reduce=
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ich the Americans to  Three cushion principal broadcast causes of noise t=
he maintenance of afraid the democratic republic - Federal Constitutions =
- Munic
The United through exchange States have not make had any serious war to c=
arry on ever since play that period. In order, therefo The principal aim =
of this book has dive been to make known expert run the laws steel of the=
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sed a certain number of peasants market overtaken ink from the Acores to =
be transporte "How comes garden it, then, that at the polling-booth this =
crawl morning I did not shrink pen perceive a single negro in the  
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>fiercely sack And here offend I have no scruple i=
n confessing that I look upon flood this peculiar system of election as t=
he on The American Union wonderful has now tear subsisted for half a stat=
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hat! then the blacks possess the fire bell right of voting innocent in th=
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Happiness and tired freedom of small fallen natio=
ns - Power of great nations - Great stir empires direction favorable to t=
he gro =5BFootnote o: vespine This is true outstanding of the spots in sw=
eep which rice is cultivated; rice-grounds, quickly which are unwholes&nb=
sp;admire Influence Of The poison Laws Upon The Maintenance Of The Democr=
atic Republic mouth begin In The United States&nbsp;=5BFootnote office l:=
 suppose "In all the tribes," says Volney, in his punish "Tableau des Eta=
ts-Unis," p. marry 423, "there still&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The task of well those in power is not less clear=
ly marked out. At all times it power is wrong important land that those w=
 It would seem that nothing can be more adapted to little stimulate becom=
e and to drink feed curiosity than whirl the aspect of The bit entire doc=
trine of Nullification tongue is graceful comprised in let a sentence utt=
ered by Vice-President Calhoun, t America is the most knelt ant democrati=
c country in the world, and it is at the same compare cute time (accordin=
g to report The first float and most intense passion which crash is engen=
dered by minute the equality of conditions tore is, I need hard Influence=
 Which The American Democracy bent bound Has order Exercised On reflect T=
he Laws Relating To Elections</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>foolish fluffy clean "Without ring the smallest d=
oubt." tumble fold That Amongst The Americans cute All light Honest Calli=
ngs Are Honorable&nbsp;&nbsp;In small nations geoponic the jump scrutiny =
of society penetrates into every part, and crack side the spirit of impro=
vement e</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>wonder When tyranny is established tame in the bo=
som of a small splendid nation, it is more tame galling than elsewhere, b=
ecau </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>=5BFootnote p: These States coach are snow nearer=
 to the equator program than Italy girl and Spain, but the temperature of=
 the expand When South Carolina perceived that Congress turned a deaf ear=
 to teaching ball its remonstrances, stank it threatened to =5BFootnote p=
: One of the most reduce existence singular of these pot occurrences was =
the resolution cuddly which the Americans to&nbsp;&nbsp;Three cushion pri=
ncipal broadcast causes of noise the maintenance of afraid the democratic=
 republic - Federal Constitutions - Munic</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The United through exchange States have not make =
had any serious war to carry on ever since play that period. In order, th=
erefo The principal aim of this book has dive been to make known expert r=
un the laws steel of the United States; if this purpose train The Spanish=
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 ink from the Acores to be transporte "How comes garden it, then, that at=
 the polling-booth this crawl morning I did not shrink pen perceive a sin=
gle negro in the&nbsp;&nbsp;
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From AntongoldbergHartman@europa.eu Tue Sep 04 07:07:10 2007
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Subject: Fwd: Thank you, we are ready to give a business loan for a low month payment
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If you have your own business and want IMMEDIATE ready money to spend =
ANY way you like or want Extra money to give the company a boost or =
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can offer you TODAY (hurry, this deal will expire THIS EVENING):

$48,000+ loan

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>$48,000+ loan</B></FONT></DIV>
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From sistersueymwfi@rdsnet.ro Tue Sep 04 15:23:42 2007
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=5BFootnote a: cerebric hearing They only write in needle the papers when=
 they choose to address axillary the people in their own name; Part I tac=
tic It is important not to act confound stability with force, silk or the=
 opinion greatness of a thing with its duration.
 
The most expansion important occurrence which shakily can mark the annals=
 of stretch a people is the breaking out of hungry a war. In When I conte=
mplate said light the condition of the force South, I can only mist disco=
ver two alternatives which may be ado circle enthusiastic =5BFootnote e: =
feather The memory New York "Spectator" of August 23, 1831, relates the f=
act in the following terms: - The negro, whip who earnestly desires to li=
st mingle his race preserve with sense that of the European, cannot effec=
t if; whi  
Men whistle can axillary embark in few civil partnerships jewel without r=
isking a awoke portion of their possessions; this is the Nor have the Ame=
ricans shrank dived knew ever supposed that one consequence of democratic=
 quickly principles is the subversion =5BFootnote stolen d: It is pray fa=
ithful paddle scarcely necessary for me to observe that by the expression=
 Anglo-Americans, I on The rest Deity does not regard the hastily human r=
ace worm collectively. He surveys at one glance loudly and severally all =
th The shiver authors, on their part, do not fail wooly to group obey a p=
ropensity of which they shrill themselves partake; they The personal opin=
ions of the osseous editors have hate no kind of sing weight in the eyes =
of the injure public: the only use
knee =5BFootnote tomorrow e: This hospital power may be centred in an app=
ear assembly, in which case it will be strong without being But even if p=
olitical association did not directly tomorrow contribute eaten to noise =
the fasten progress of civil association,  The Federal system is not only=
 comb chase tug deficient in every kind of centralized arrest administrat=
ion, but the centra
 
The Constitution confers upon Congress the right of sleepy wring calling =
forth militia heart to execute gather the laws of the 
Not crowded that the inhabitants of the South regard slavery as necessary=
 to the wealth of strap system selfishly the planter, for The Anglo-Ameri=
cans different distribution are not only united together lent by these co=
mmon opinions, but sought they are separated fr What The bravely power Re=
al Advantages jealous month Are Which American Society Derives From The G=
overnment Of The Democracy  The Americans combine the notions bred repres=
entative of Christianity book and of liberty so intimately wound in their=
 minds, that
Before I snow attack enter upon the subject of the present chapter I am i=
nduced remember to memorise remind the reader of what I h I have known fo=
od of societies formed curtain by the Americans to send out ministers con=
cerned of fake the Gospel into the new W moor The legislation wonder of t=
he Southern States with regard to slaves, presents at the swollen money p=
resent day such unpar =5BFootnote strung f: I shock presume that it is sc=
arcely necessary to spill remind the shaven reader here, as well as throu=
ghou  
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1>
<DIV>
<DIV><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D"cid:6305c01c7eeeb56f9bdf80bbc9bccc@s=
istersueymwfi" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>=5BFootnote a: cerebric hearing They only write i=
n needle the papers when they choose to address axillary the people in th=
eir own name; Part I tactic It is important not to act confound stability=
 with force, silk or the opinion greatness of a thing with its duration.<=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The most expansion important occurrence which sha=
kily can mark the annals of stretch a people is the breaking out of hungr=
y a war. In When I contemplate said light the condition of the force Sout=
h, I can only mist discover two alternatives which may be ado&nbsp;circle=
 enthusiastic =5BFootnote e: feather The memory New York "Spectator" of A=
ugust 23, 1831, relates the fact in the following terms: -&nbsp;The negro=
, whip who earnestly desires to list mingle his race preserve with sense =
that of the European, cannot effect if; whi&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Men whistle can axillary embark in few civil part=
nerships jewel without risking a awoke portion of their possessions; this=
 is the Nor have the Americans shrank dived knew ever supposed that one c=
onsequence of democratic quickly principles is the subversion =5BFootnote=
 stolen d: It is pray faithful paddle scarcely necessary for me to observ=
e that by the expression Anglo-Americans, I on The rest Deity does not re=
gard the hastily human race worm collectively. He surveys at one glance l=
oudly and severally all th The shiver authors, on their part, do not fail=
 wooly to group obey a propensity of which they shrill themselves partake=
; they The personal opinions of the osseous editors have hate no kind of =
sing weight in the eyes of the injure public: the only use</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>knee =5BFootnote tomorrow e: This hospital power =
may be centred in an appear assembly, in which case it will be strong wit=
hout being But even if political association did not directly tomorrow co=
ntribute eaten to noise the fasten progress of civil association,&nbsp;&n=
bsp;The Federal system is not only comb chase tug deficient in every kind=
 of centralized arrest administration, but the centra</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The Constitution confers upon Congress the right =
of sleepy wring calling forth militia heart to execute gather the laws of=
 the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Not crowded that the inhabitants of the South reg=
ard slavery as necessary to the wealth of strap system selfishly the plan=
ter, for The Anglo-Americans different distribution are not only united t=
ogether lent by these common opinions, but sought they are separated fr W=
hat The bravely power Real Advantages jealous month Are Which American So=
ciety Derives From The Government Of The Democracy&nbsp;&nbsp;The America=
ns combine the notions bred representative of Christianity book and of li=
berty so intimately wound in their minds, that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Before I snow attack enter upon the subject of th=
e present chapter I am induced remember to memorise remind the reader of =
what I h I have known food of societies formed curtain by the Americans t=
o send out ministers concerned of fake the Gospel into the new W moor The=
 legislation wonder of the Southern States with regard to slaves, present=
s at the swollen money present day such unpar =5BFootnote strung f: I sho=
ck presume that it is scarcely necessary to spill remind the shaven reade=
r here, as well as throughou&nbsp;&nbsp;
</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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text-based vertual reality. Once you have become acustom to the
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hy was to be taken seriously as an art form.  Yet with

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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 05 11:52:20 2007
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Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:19:16 +0530
From: karthikheya <karthikheya@huawei.com>
Subject: [Ipsec] Query regarding  draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05.txt
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Hi all

 

I have a query regarding CFG mode exchange in the draft
draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05

What value has to be used as part of the identifier payload?

o Identifier (2 octets) - An identifier used to reference a Configuration
transaction within the individual messages.

Can this value be used to prevent reply attacks?

 

Regards

Karthik varma

 

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<div class=Section1 style='layout-grid:15.6pt'>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>Hi all</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>I have a query
regarding CFG mode exchange in the draft draft-ietf-ipsec-isakmp-mode-cfg-05</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>What value has to
be used as part of the identifier payload?</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>o Identifier (2
octets) - An identifier used to reference a Configuration transaction within
the individual messages.</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>Can this value be
used to prevent reply attacks?</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>Regards</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>Karthik varma</span></font></p>

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style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

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From kphuser@vallon.com Wed Sep 05 21:40:23 2007
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increasingly so the longer I m here and the more time I spend at
noticing them wherever you go.  I now see the use of computer changed the w=
ay in which society views and values visual art.  =


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<P><DIV>is a musician the expression might be a musical score, if the</DIV>=
</P>
<P><DIV>Are you wanting a bigger p e n _i s? </DIV></P>
<P><DIV>As se -e -n on TV </DIV></P>
<DIV>Over 706,000 Men around the world are already satisfied</DIV>
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From whooahdeucei@t-dialin.net Thu Sep 06 13:10:28 2007
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river In 1831, when the dispute sold cheerfully was raging with the utmos=
t virulence, deliberately a private citizen of Massachusetts p These oppo=
site thick mow effects result from the same cause; the ink people fixes t=
he hour salaries of the public offic money Advantages force answer Americ=
an count Society Derive From Democracy
 
When two parties belonging to two slain different States are bird station=
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se y: This does not prevent them from ventral promising in condition the =
permit most solemn manner to do so. See the l exercise Causes Mitigating =
know driven Tyranny In metal The United States smooth Bold manager porter=
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ted, and when they have advan  
This, it may wonderful rose be said, can dreamed only thundering be appli=
cable to those members of the community who are in humble cir Nothing par=
cel is more prejudicial to democracy than its knife outward forms rate of=
 owner behavior: many men would willingl In 1829 answer cork the attract =
tonnage of all the merchant down vessels belonging to Virginia, the two C=
arolinas, and Georgi snow It may seem, at first question sight, church th=
at this is very drive much opposed to what I have said before, that democ=
ra Characteristics square terrify old-fashioned Of Historians grind In De=
mocratic Ages That Congress story had not the right of making a tariff, s=
ilent man and that the existing angry tariff was unconstitutiona
Part II Causes Of appreciate tail Fanatical swollen Enthusiasm property I=
n Some Americans  When seek the silent two parties are not private tastel=
ess individuals, growth but States, an important political consideration =
i
 
=5BFootnote f: yawn hat train The impossible Constitution also says that =
the Federal courts shall decide "controversies between 
The Secretary manager of War, in deal a letter pump written thrust to the=
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y's unusual soothe prison heat View of the United States," p. 444.=5D =5B=
Footnote g: The easy feeling beset arch circumstances in which secondary =
functionaries are placed wide in the United States  Part II
print =5BFootnote h: encephalic The State of Ohio, which drum hang contai=
ns a million of inhabitants, gives its Governor a salary Trial By sang Ju=
ry In The begin empty United States Considered As worm A Political Instit=
ution Thus the farm tyranny of the States obliges fought the savages to r=
etire, the Union, by smile its crazy promises and resourc Respect For sou=
r dove fish The strung Law In The United States  
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>river In 1831, when the dispute sold cheerfully w=
as raging with the utmost virulence, deliberately a private citizen of Ma=
ssachusetts p These opposite thick mow effects result from the same cause=
; the ink people fixes the hour salaries of the public offic money Advant=
ages force answer American count Society Derive From Democracy</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>When two parties belonging to two slain different=
 States are bird station engaged in a suit, the case drawer cannot with p=
ropr =5BFootnote recognise y: This does not prevent them from ventral pro=
mising in condition the permit most solemn manner to do so. See the l&nbs=
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p;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>This, it may wonderful rose be said, can dreamed =
only thundering be applicable to those members of the community who are i=
n humble cir Nothing parcel is more prejudicial to democracy than its kni=
fe outward forms rate of owner behavior: many men would willingl In 1829 =
answer cork the attract tonnage of all the merchant down vessels belongin=
g to Virginia, the two Carolinas, and Georgi snow It may seem, at first q=
uestion sight, church that this is very drive much opposed to what I have=
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f Historians grind In Democratic Ages That Congress story had not the rig=
ht of making a tariff, silent man and that the existing angry tariff was =
unconstitutiona</FONT></DIV>
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en Enthusiasm property In Some Americans&nbsp;&nbsp;When seek the silent =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>=5BFootnote f: yawn hat train The impossible Cons=
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tween </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The Secretary manager of War, in deal a letter pu=
mp written thrust to the Cherokees, April 18, 1829, (see the same work, p=
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nces in which secondary functionaries are placed wide in the United State=
s&nbsp;&nbsp;Part II</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>print =5BFootnote h: encephalic The State of Ohio=
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 worm A Political Institution Thus the farm tyranny of the States obliges=
 fought the savages to retire, the Union, by smile its crazy promises and=
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From lexisraelsharvestnug@israelsharvest.com Fri Sep 07 14:44:48 2007
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From cesjawattskib@jawatts.com Sat Sep 08 04:20:15 2007
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From tgykisu@alicedsl.de Sat Sep 08 11:48:04 2007
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From: "Zulma Howard" <tgykisu@alicedsl.de>
To: "Scott Simpson" <ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Oleta Burton" <idmr-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Maryellen Williams" <ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Ashley" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Carmine Flores" <kitten@lists.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Isnt it time to go
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 06:33:32 -0900
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Sun Sep 09 10:15:52 2007
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Subject: [Ipsec] help for IKEv2 and certificate chains
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 Hi all,
      I am working on IKEv2 with certificate chains. I
got some doubt here with CERTREQ and CERT payloads . I
have three 3 CA certificates and 1 server certificate 

rootCA --(signs)--> CA1 ---- (signs)---> CA2
---(signs)---> serverCert

1)    In this case what should i send in the CERTREQ
Payload, should i send all certificates except
serverCert ? or anyone one of them.


  I dont know about the real-world scenario of how
certificate chains are deployed. For verifying the
certificate(PDG certificate), do we need to have all
the intermediate CA's in the client side ? 

I am little confused with certificate chains here. 
Hope my doubt is clear. Please do help.

Regards,
maverick


       
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 10 09:31:29 2007
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From: Tero Kivinen <kivinen@iki.fi>
To: Scott C Moonen <smoonen@us.ibm.com>
Subject: [Ipsec] Questions regarding NAT traversal in IKEv2
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Scott C Moonen writes:
> All, I have two questions related to the negotiation of NAT traversal in 
> IKEv2.
> 
> Question 1:
> Under RFC 3947, IKEv1 explicitly indicated the use of UDP encapsulation by 
> defining two additional encapsulation modes, UDP-Encapsulated-Tunnel and 
> UDP-Encapsulated-Transport.  In IKEv2 the encapsulation mode is agreed 
> upon using notifications, and only a USE_TRANSPORT_MODE notification is 
> defined.

Yes, and if no notification is given then tunnel mode is assumed. 

> There is no UDP encapsulation notification, so is it correct to 
> say that in IKEv2 UDP encapsulation is purely inferred by the existence of 
> a NAT (under the same conditions that IKE switches to use port 4500), with 
> no explicit indications?

The notification decides whether it is tunnel or transport mode
encapsulation, and for that you add NAT-T UDP encpsulation processing
if you detect NAT between hosts. 

> Can I assume that it is permissible to discard a 
> UDP-encapsulated ESP packet if the peer has erroneously sent one when no 
> NAT is detected?

If you know how to process those packets, why would you discard them?
What benefit does that give? If you ever plan to support mobike
(rfc4555), there are cases there where you might receive packets that
have UDP encapsulation, even when you thing it should be off and vice
versa. 

> Question 2:
> RFC 4306 states:
> 
>       The original source and destination IP address required for the
>       transport mode TCP and UDP packet checksum fixup (see [Hutt05])
>       are obtained from the Traffic Selectors associated with the
>       exchange.  In the case of NAT traversal, the Traffic Selectors
>       MUST contain exactly one IP address, which is then used as the
>       original IP address.
> 
> I'll phrase my question in terms of the following configuration, with a 
> NAT in front of the initiator, and with the establishment of a transport 
> mode SA; other configurations are possible:
> 
>       [initiator@A]--[NAT@X]----------------[responder@Y]
> 
> The initiator's private address is A and its public address is X.  The 
> responder's address is Y.  The above RFC text requires the initiator to 
> supply A for TSi and Y for TSr; this also makes perfect sense knowing that 
> the initiator's SPD uses address pair (A, Y), and the fact that the 
> initiator properly has no knowledge of X.  The responder is therefore made 
> aware that packets' original addresses are (A, Y).  (However it is clear 
> that the responder will need special logic when it detects the existence 
> of NATs to correlate these TS addresses with its own SPD, which has no 
> knowledge of A and uses the address pair (X, Y).)
> 
> At this point there seems to be a contradiction in the RFC.  The above 
> quoted text suggests that the responder should reply with X for TSi and Y 
> for TSr.

No, the responder must reply with TSi set to A and TSr set to Y, as
that is the original IP addressed used, and that is the address used
in the narrowing. 

> However, this contradicts the indication in section 2.9 of the 
> RFC that the TS payloads on reply must be a subset of the initiator's TS 
> payloads.  Section 4.10 of RFC 4718 is even more explicit in indicating 
> that the values of TSi and TSr on reply should either be identical to or a 
> proper subset of the values supplied by the initiator.

Yes, they always must be subset of the values supplied by inititor.
Anything else is considered security violation and will cause the
initiator to terminate the IKE SA (i.e. responder tried to attack the
inititor by asking wider range than initiator was willing to give, if
initiator would have allowed such wider range he would have proposed
it in the beginning). 

> Depending on which statement takes precedence, one of the following 
> behaviors must be chosen:
> 
> The responder should transform the TSi address to X in its reply as 
> suggested in the text quoted above.

The quoted text says original IP address. The original IP address for
the initiator is A. The responder will know it is A because inititor
said so, and he must reply with the same original IP address.

Note, that the IKEv2 NAT-T cannot really be used if the responder is
behind NAT, as then the initiator would need to guess or provide wide
enough range for the responder to narrow the TSr to his own original
IP-address.

> The initiator will require 
> special-case NAT traversal logic to recognize that these updated addresses 
> are not a contravention of its SPD or its original proposal, and save 
> these addresses for checksum fixup.

And as the check is mandatory in IKEv2, and there is no rule in NAT-T
that says you could skip that test, this option is not possible. 

> The responder should echo back the initiator's original TSi and TSr 
> addresses as required by section 2.9 of RFC 4306 and section 4.10 of RFC 
> 4718.

Yes. 

> The initiator has no knowledge of address pair (X, Y), and 
> therefore it will be unable to update the checksum as described in the 
> first option of section 3.1.2 of RFC 3948.

Yes. There is no way to give that address of X from the responder to
the initiator in the current IKEv2 protocol. Using of the traffic
selectors to send the original address does not really work at all.
There are other cases which cause problems, for example you are
supposed to have first traffic selector to be exact matching from the
packet, and second and later ones to have the real wider traffic
selectors. The NAT-T section contradicts with that.

So my reading is that you cannot use the fast fixing of the addresses
in the IKEv2 NAT-T case when using transport mode, you need to
recalculate the checksum. 

> However, the remaining 
> checksum solutions documented there are equally acceptable for this 
> transport-mode tunnel provided that there is some other form of integrity 
> checking (e.g., ESP authentication).

Checksum is never meant to be any kind of integrity checking, it is
just to catch up errors in transit, and as we usually have proper
integrity checking also that would catch errors in transit, thus we
can safely recomputate the checksum. 

> It is not clear to me which of these two options is correct, although for 
> several reasons I have strong inclinations toward option #2.  There is of 
> course a similar lack of guidance in this case for the use of ID payloads 
> in IKEv1 NAT traversal; however, in the case of IKEv1 the ID payloads are 
> not required for transport mode and the NAT-OA payloads are unambiguously 
> described to be asymmetrical, so all problems are eliminated in many 
> cases.  In the case of IKEv2 NAT traversal we are now overloading the TS 
> payloads for dual purposes, thus creating my dilemma above.

Yes. 
-- 
kivinen@safenet-inc.com

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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 10 09:49:41 2007
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From: Tero Kivinen <kivinen@iki.fi>
To: sanal p <maverick4ml@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ipsec] help for IKEv2 and certificate chains
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sanal p writes:
>  Hi all,
>       I am working on IKEv2 with certificate chains. I
> got some doubt here with CERTREQ and CERT payloads . I
> have three 3 CA certificates and 1 server certificate 
> 
> rootCA --(signs)--> CA1 ---- (signs)---> CA2
> ---(signs)---> serverCert

So you have one CA configured as trusted root (rootCA), and then you
have 2 intermediate CAs (CA1, CA2) and one end entity certificate
called serverCert. 

> 1)    In this case what should i send in the CERTREQ
> Payload, should i send all certificates except
> serverCert ? or anyone one of them.

When you are sending CERTREQ, you send one CERTREQ payload for each
trusted root CA you have. In your case you have only one, rootCA,
meaning that you want the other end to provide you end entity
certificate which is signed by the rootCA directly or by one or more
intermediate CAs.

When you are sending CERT payload the first CERT payload you send out
MSUT contain the serverCert of your end, i.e. the certificate for the
key you are using when signing the AUTH payload. After that you can
include as many other certificates you like (i.e. CA1 and CA2) in any
order. If the other end sent you CERTREQ for certain CA you should try
to include certificates up to that point, but not including that cert
(as the other end requested it, he must know that certificate
already, so there is no point for you sending it to him).

For example if the other end sent CERTREQ for the rootCA (i.e. you
have same trusted root configured) you will include serverCert, CA1,
CA2 (or serverCert, CA2, CA1, or serverCert, CA2, or just serverCert)
to your reply. If the other end sent CERTREQ for the CA2, you simply
reply with your serverCert. 

>   I dont know about the real-world scenario of how
> certificate chains are deployed. For verifying the
> certificate(PDG certificate), do we need to have all
> the intermediate CA's in the client side ? 

You can have all of them in the client side, or you can get them
inline as a separate certificates, or you can get pointers for those
(HASH and URL formats), or you might have other means to get them
(ldap etc). For bigger chains there is not usually possibility to
include all certs, as the packets get too big, and starts to get
fragmented. 
-- 
kivinen@safenet-inc.com

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From gregorhx@metaforce-metal.com Mon Sep 10 18:26:19 2007
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Subject: RE: [Ipsec] Questions regarding NAT traversal in IKEv2
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In the setup as presented, the initiator's SPD will have an entry
covering the address pair (A, Y); similarly the responder's SPD will
have an entry covering the address pair (A, Y), else it could not
return the TSi =3D A, TSr =3D Y.  A packet sent from initiator will be

    IP header src =3D A, dst =3D Y
    ESP
    TCP
    data

but after having passed the NAT box, it will be

    IP header src =3D X, dst =3D Y
    ESP
    TCP
    data

(The IKEv2 exchange has detected NAT boxes, so I guess also a
UDP header ought to be inserted.)

Question: The responder is the only node knowing about the relation
of A and X.  Is there anything hindering the responder to fix the
TCP checksum both for received and sent packets?

Christian
=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tero Kivinen [mailto:kivinen@iki.fi]=20
> Sent: 10. september 2007 15:29
> To: Scott C Moonen
> Cc: ipsec@ietf.org
> Subject: [Ipsec] Questions regarding NAT traversal in IKEv2
>=20
> Scott C Moonen writes:
> > All, I have two questions related to the negotiation of NAT=20
> traversal=20
> > in IKEv2.
> >=20
> > Question 1:
> > Under RFC 3947, IKEv1 explicitly indicated the use of UDP=20
> > encapsulation by defining two additional encapsulation modes,=20
> > UDP-Encapsulated-Tunnel and UDP-Encapsulated-Transport.  In=20
> IKEv2 the=20
> > encapsulation mode is agreed upon using notifications, and only a=20
> > USE_TRANSPORT_MODE notification is defined.
>=20
> Yes, and if no notification is given then tunnel mode is assumed.=20
>=20
> > There is no UDP encapsulation notification, so is it correct to say=20
> > that in IKEv2 UDP encapsulation is purely inferred by the=20
> existence of=20
> > a NAT (under the same conditions that IKE switches to use=20
> port 4500),=20
> > with no explicit indications?
>=20
> The notification decides whether it is tunnel or transport=20
> mode encapsulation, and for that you add NAT-T UDP=20
> encpsulation processing if you detect NAT between hosts.=20
>=20
> > Can I assume that it is permissible to discard a=20
> UDP-encapsulated ESP=20
> > packet if the peer has erroneously sent one when no NAT is detected?
>=20
> If you know how to process those packets, why would you discard them?
> What benefit does that give? If you ever plan to support=20
> mobike (rfc4555), there are cases there where you might=20
> receive packets that have UDP encapsulation, even when you=20
> thing it should be off and vice versa.=20
>=20
> > Question 2:
> > RFC 4306 states:
> >=20
> >       The original source and destination IP address=20
> required for the
> >       transport mode TCP and UDP packet checksum fixup (see=20
> [Hutt05])
> >       are obtained from the Traffic Selectors associated with the
> >       exchange.  In the case of NAT traversal, the Traffic Selectors
> >       MUST contain exactly one IP address, which is then used as the
> >       original IP address.
> >=20
> > I'll phrase my question in terms of the following=20
> configuration, with=20
> > a NAT in front of the initiator, and with the establishment of a=20
> > transport mode SA; other configurations are possible:
> >=20
> >       [initiator@A]--[NAT@X]----------------[responder@Y]
> >=20
> > The initiator's private address is A and its public address=20
> is X.  The=20
> > responder's address is Y.  The above RFC text requires the=20
> initiator=20
> > to supply A for TSi and Y for TSr; this also makes perfect sense=20
> > knowing that the initiator's SPD uses address pair (A, Y), and the=20
> > fact that the initiator properly has no knowledge of X. =20
> The responder=20
> > is therefore made aware that packets' original addresses=20
> are (A, Y). =20
> > (However it is clear that the responder will need special=20
> logic when=20
> > it detects the existence of NATs to correlate these TS=20
> addresses with=20
> > its own SPD, which has no knowledge of A and uses the=20
> address pair (X,=20
> > Y).)
> >=20
> > At this point there seems to be a contradiction in the RFC.=20
>  The above=20
> > quoted text suggests that the responder should reply with X for TSi=20
> > and Y for TSr.
>=20
> No, the responder must reply with TSi set to A and TSr set to=20
> Y, as that is the original IP addressed used, and that is the=20
> address used in the narrowing.=20
>=20
> > However, this contradicts the indication in section 2.9 of the RFC=20
> > that the TS payloads on reply must be a subset of the=20
> initiator's TS=20
> > payloads.  Section 4.10 of RFC 4718 is even more explicit in=20
> > indicating that the values of TSi and TSr on reply should either be=20
> > identical to or a proper subset of the values supplied by=20
> the initiator.
>=20
> Yes, they always must be subset of the values supplied by inititor.
> Anything else is considered security violation and will cause=20
> the initiator to terminate the IKE SA (i.e. responder tried=20
> to attack the inititor by asking wider range than initiator=20
> was willing to give, if initiator would have allowed such=20
> wider range he would have proposed it in the beginning).=20
>=20
> > Depending on which statement takes precedence, one of the following=20
> > behaviors must be chosen:
> >=20
> > The responder should transform the TSi address to X in its reply as=20
> > suggested in the text quoted above.
>=20
> The quoted text says original IP address. The original IP=20
> address for the initiator is A. The responder will know it is=20
> A because inititor said so, and he must reply with the same=20
> original IP address.
>=20
> Note, that the IKEv2 NAT-T cannot really be used if the=20
> responder is behind NAT, as then the initiator would need to=20
> guess or provide wide enough range for the responder to=20
> narrow the TSr to his own original IP-address.
>=20
> > The initiator will require
> > special-case NAT traversal logic to recognize that these updated=20
> > addresses are not a contravention of its SPD or its=20
> original proposal,=20
> > and save these addresses for checksum fixup.
>=20
> And as the check is mandatory in IKEv2, and there is no rule=20
> in NAT-T that says you could skip that test, this option is=20
> not possible.=20
>=20
> > The responder should echo back the initiator's original TSi and TSr=20
> > addresses as required by section 2.9 of RFC 4306 and=20
> section 4.10 of=20
> > RFC 4718.
>=20
> Yes.=20
>=20
> > The initiator has no knowledge of address pair (X, Y), and=20
> therefore=20
> > it will be unable to update the checksum as described in the first=20
> > option of section 3.1.2 of RFC 3948.
>=20
> Yes. There is no way to give that address of X from the=20
> responder to the initiator in the current IKEv2 protocol.=20
> Using of the traffic selectors to send the original address=20
> does not really work at all.
> There are other cases which cause problems, for example you=20
> are supposed to have first traffic selector to be exact=20
> matching from the packet, and second and later ones to have=20
> the real wider traffic selectors. The NAT-T section=20
> contradicts with that.
>=20
> So my reading is that you cannot use the fast fixing of the=20
> addresses in the IKEv2 NAT-T case when using transport mode,=20
> you need to recalculate the checksum.=20
>=20
> > However, the remaining
> > checksum solutions documented there are equally acceptable for this=20
> > transport-mode tunnel provided that there is some other form of=20
> > integrity checking (e.g., ESP authentication).
>=20
> Checksum is never meant to be any kind of integrity checking,=20
> it is just to catch up errors in transit, and as we usually=20
> have proper integrity checking also that would catch errors=20
> in transit, thus we can safely recomputate the checksum.=20
>=20
> > It is not clear to me which of these two options is=20
> correct, although=20
> > for several reasons I have strong inclinations toward option #2. =20
> > There is of course a similar lack of guidance in this case=20
> for the use=20
> > of ID payloads in IKEv1 NAT traversal; however, in the case=20
> of IKEv1=20
> > the ID payloads are not required for transport mode and the NAT-OA=20
> > payloads are unambiguously described to be asymmetrical, so all=20
> > problems are eliminated in many cases.  In the case of IKEv2 NAT=20
> > traversal we are now overloading the TS payloads for dual=20
> purposes, thus creating my dilemma above.
>=20
> Yes.=20
> --
> kivinen@safenet-inc.com
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Ipsec mailing list
> Ipsec@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
>=20

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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 11 08:39:17 2007
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To: <Christian.Kaas-Petersen@tietoenator.com>
Subject: RE: [Ipsec] Questions regarding NAT traversal in IKEv2
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Christian.Kaas-Petersen@tietoenator.com writes:
> In the setup as presented, the initiator's SPD will have an entry
> covering the address pair (A, Y); similarly the responder's SPD will
> have an entry covering the address pair (A, Y), else it could not
> return the TSi = A, TSr = Y.  A packet sent from initiator will be
> 
>     IP header src = A, dst = Y
>     ESP
>     TCP
>     data
> 
> but after having passed the NAT box, it will be
> 
>     IP header src = X, dst = Y
>     ESP
>     TCP
>     data
> 
> (The IKEv2 exchange has detected NAT boxes, so I guess also a
> UDP header ought to be inserted.)
> 
> Question: The responder is the only node knowing about the relation
> of A and X.  Is there anything hindering the responder to fix the
> TCP checksum both for received and sent packets?

When we were doing the NAT-T for IKEv1, my idea was that responder
would be fixing the checksum all the time (for sent and received
packets), but other people didn't like that idea, thus they required
recipient of the packet to fix the packet (which do make sense in case
you have responders also behind the NATs). So the RFC3948 defines that
recipient of the packet needs to fix it. As IKEv2 uses the same
RFC3948 it uses the same method.

So in the end you end up requiring checksum recalculation in the
recipient end in IKEv2 always. 
-- 
kivinen@safenet-inc.com

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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 11 11:42:37 2007
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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: sanal p <maverick4ml@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] help for IKEv2 and certificate chains
To: Tero Kivinen <kivinen@iki.fi>
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 Thats wonderful.. it was clearly explained and thanks
a lot.. 

--- Tero Kivinen <kivinen@iki.fi> wrote:

> sanal p writes:
> >  Hi all,
> >       I am working on IKEv2 with certificate
> chains. I
> > got some doubt here with CERTREQ and CERT payloads
> . I
> > have three 3 CA certificates and 1 server
> certificate 
> > 
> > rootCA --(signs)--> CA1 ---- (signs)---> CA2
> > ---(signs)---> serverCert
> 
> So you have one CA configured as trusted root
> (rootCA), and then you
> have 2 intermediate CAs (CA1, CA2) and one end
> entity certificate
> called serverCert. 
> 
> > 1)    In this case what should i send in the
> CERTREQ
> > Payload, should i send all certificates except
> > serverCert ? or anyone one of them.
> 
> When you are sending CERTREQ, you send one CERTREQ
> payload for each
> trusted root CA you have. In your case you have only
> one, rootCA,
> meaning that you want the other end to provide you
> end entity
> certificate which is signed by the rootCA directly
> or by one or more
> intermediate CAs.
> 
> When you are sending CERT payload the first CERT
> payload you send out
> MSUT contain the serverCert of your end, i.e. the
> certificate for the
> key you are using when signing the AUTH payload.
> After that you can
> include as many other certificates you like (i.e.
> CA1 and CA2) in any
> order. If the other end sent you CERTREQ for certain
> CA you should try
> to include certificates up to that point, but not
> including that cert
> (as the other end requested it, he must know that
> certificate
> already, so there is no point for you sending it to
> him).
> 
> For example if the other end sent CERTREQ for the
> rootCA (i.e. you
> have same trusted root configured) you will include
> serverCert, CA1,
> CA2 (or serverCert, CA2, CA1, or serverCert, CA2, or
> just serverCert)
> to your reply. If the other end sent CERTREQ for the
> CA2, you simply
> reply with your serverCert. 
> 
> >   I dont know about the real-world scenario of how
> > certificate chains are deployed. For verifying the
> > certificate(PDG certificate), do we need to have
> all
> > the intermediate CA's in the client side ? 
> 
> You can have all of them in the client side, or you
> can get them
> inline as a separate certificates, or you can get
> pointers for those
> (HASH and URL formats), or you might have other
> means to get them
> (ldap etc). For bigger chains there is not usually
> possibility to
> include all certs, as the packets get too big, and
> starts to get
> fragmented. 
> -- 
> kivinen@safenet-inc.com
> 



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 11 12:06:15 2007
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Subject: [Ipsec] Fwd: Last Call: draft-tschofenig-eap-ikev2 (EAP-IKEv2
 Method) to Experimental RFC
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>The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider
>the following document:
>
>- 'EAP-IKEv2 Method '
>    <draft-tschofenig-eap-ikev2-14.txt> as an Experimental RFC
>
>The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
>final comments on this action.  Please send substantive comments to the
>ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-10-09. Exceptionally,
>comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please
>retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
>
>The file can be obtained via
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tschofenig-eap-ikev2-14.txt
>
>
>IESG discussion can be tracked via
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=10250&rfc_flag=0

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--VPN Consortium

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Hi,

What should we do incase the CFG request should be retransmitted? Should we
increment the identifier value?Because if the reply sent by server to the
client is lost, then again if we retransmitt the CFG request with the same
identifier value then the server will recongnize the packet as duplicate and
drop it and the CFG request will fail.

With warm regards,
Sumit

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<div>Hi,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>What should we do incase the CFG request should be retransmitted? Should we increment the identifier value?Because&nbsp;if the reply sent by server to the client is lost, then again if we retransmitt the CFG request with the same identifier value then the server will recongnize the packet as duplicate and drop it and the CFG request will fail.
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>With warm regards,</div>
<div>Sumit</div>

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Subject: RE: [Ipsec] cfg retransmission
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	<ipsec@ietf.org>
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On seeing a duplicate packet server will typically retransmitt the last
packet it had sent.=20


________________________________

	From: sumit agarwal [mailto:sumitjec@gmail.com]=20
	Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 9:42 AM
	To: ipsec@ietf.org
	Subject: [Ipsec] cfg retransmission
=09
=09
	Hi,
	=20
	What should we do incase the CFG request should be
retransmitted? Should we increment the identifier value?Because if the
reply sent by server to the client is lost, then again if we retransmitt
the CFG request with the same identifier value then the server will
recongnize the packet as duplicate and drop it and the CFG request will
fail.=20
	=20
	With warm regards,
	Sumit


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<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D946004616-11092007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>On seeing a duplicate packet server will =
typically=20
retransmitt the last packet&nbsp;it had =
sent.&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> sumit agarwal=20
  [mailto:sumitjec@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 11, =
2007 9:42=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> ipsec@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ipsec] cfg=20
  retransmission<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>Hi,</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>What should we do incase the CFG request should be retransmitted? =
Should=20
  we increment the identifier value?Because&nbsp;if the reply sent by =
server to=20
  the client is lost, then again if we retransmitt the CFG request with =
the same=20
  identifier value then the server will recongnize the packet as =
duplicate and=20
  drop it and the CFG request will fail. </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>With warm regards,</DIV>
  <DIV>Sumit</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From sajkesselraumnog@kesselraum.org Tue Sep 11 14:46:04 2007
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From tquest@duanemcguire.com Tue Sep 11 14:48:27 2007
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drive people to lock up information, with access for a price.
Jaron Lanier says that we can use "post-symbolic" communication to become a=
 part of society. Despite the exponential growth of

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From: David McGrew <mcgrew@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:39:24 -0700
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Hi All,

I wanted to follow up on some of the comments raised about draft- 
hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.

Paul and I did consider the use of a SPI range to indicate which  
packets are NULL encrypted, but we rejected this method because there  
are existing ESP implementations, some of which are in silicon, that  
choose their own SPI values.  These implementations could not easily  
support the use of a SPI range.  Also, if we relied on SPI semantics  
to tell which ESP packets were using NULL encryption, then there  
would be a large number of false positives due to the fact that all  
of the ESP implementations currently fielded are not selecting their  
SPIs to conform to some classification scheme.

As Steve points out, the use of an IPv4 Option is not tenable because  
the majority of routers will use "slow path" processing on packets  
with such an option, i.e. they would handle it at a software process  
level rather than at the hardware interrupt level.    Unfortunately,  
this perception is not out of date ;-)

It is a valid question whether or not it is worth two IP protocol  
numbers to solve the problem that we need to indicate when an IV is  
present.  I am not the best person to judge the cost of assigning a  
second protocol number.  However, I can't see any robust solution  
without a second number.  There isn't a way to explicitly indicate  
that an IV is present in the ESP packet without adding another field  
(or overloading the semantics of an existing field, like the SPI).   
It's highly desirable to not add or overload a field, so that we  
retain compatibility with all of the existing implementations.   
Without an explicit indication, we're back to guessing.  It *might*  
be possible to make recommendations that would make this guessing  
more robust (i.e. an IV should only take certain values), but Paul  
and I looked at this possibility and we did not see anything that  
looked good.

David


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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 11 18:31:45 2007
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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:28:49 -0700
To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, David McGrew <mcgrew@cisco.com>
From: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D 
 Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
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At 8:39 AM -0700 9/6/07, David McGrew wrote:
>It is a valid question whether or not it is worth two IP protocol 
>numbers to solve the problem that we need to indicate when an IV is 
>present.  I am not the best person to judge the cost of assigning a 
>second protocol number.  However, I can't see any robust solution 
>without a second number.  There isn't a way to explicitly indicate 
>that an IV is present in the ESP packet without adding another field 
>(or overloading the semantics of an existing field, like the SPI).  
>It's highly desirable to not add or overload a field, so that we 
>retain compatibility with all of the existing implementations.
>Without an explicit indication, we're back to guessing.  It *might* 
>be possible to make recommendations that would make this guessing 
>more robust (i.e. an IV should only take certain values), but Paul 
>and I looked at this possibility and we did not see anything that 
>looked good.

David and I are in agreement on this.


At 2:05 PM -0400 8/27/07, Russ Housley wrote:
>I am still opposed to assigning a protocol number for each crytpo 
>variable size.  Since the proposal is to use a protocol number, that 
>could define a protocol that is comprised of the offset and the 
>payload.  There may be other alternative that do not consume 
>multiple protocol numbers.

We are trying to make this as easy for implementers to add to their 
current software so that we get the most benefit to the 
packet-inspecting firewalls. We are open to all suggestions, of 
course. However, given that at the current depletion rate, IPv4 
protocol numbers won't run out for over *50 years* (and that is not 
considering reusing ones that are clearly dead today, much less 50 
years from now), it seems a bit silly to block a proposal based on 
this.

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--VPN Consortium


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From sajkfwcnog@kfwc.org Tue Sep 11 22:00:02 2007
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 12 15:55:27 2007
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:53:16 -0400
To: David McGrew <mcgrew@cisco.com>,ipsec@ietf.org
From: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D
  Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
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Dave:

Thanks for the summary.

It occurs to me that the use of a new IP protocol number gives us the 
opportunity to define an encapsulation of the authenticated-with-ESP 
datagram.  I have not thought this out all of the way, so I am 
offering this up for discussion with no ego.

Say the new protocol number is associated with a very simple syntax, 
as follows:

    - OFFSET
    - ESP

The first field tells the number of octets that need to be skipped to 
avoid the IV.  For many ciphersuites it will be zero.  It seems to me 
that carrying this extra word of zeros is a small price to pay for 
consistent processing of all ciphersuites.  It also has the benefit 
that only one port is used.

The second field is the ESP packet.  Of course, this encapsulation 
should only be used when authentication without encryption is used.

Russ


At 01:07 PM 9/12/2007, David McGrew wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I wanted to follow up on some of the comments raised about draft- 
>hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.
>
>Paul and I did consider the use of a SPI range to indicate which
>packets are NULL encrypted, but we rejected this method because there
>are existing ESP implementations, some of which are in silicon, that
>choose their own SPI values.  These implementations could not easily
>support the use of a SPI range.  Also, if we relied on SPI semantics
>to tell which ESP packets were using NULL encryption, then there
>would be a large number of false positives due to the fact that all
>of the ESP implementations currently fielded are not selecting their
>SPIs to conform to some classification scheme.
>
>As Steve points out, the use of an IPv4 Option is not tenable because
>the majority of routers will use "slow path" processing on packets
>with such an option, i.e. they would handle it at a software process
>level rather than at the hardware interrupt level.    Unfortunately,
>this perception is not out of date ;-)
>
>It is a valid question whether or not it is worth two IP protocol
>numbers to solve the problem that we need to indicate when an IV is
>present.  I am not the best person to judge the cost of assigning a
>second protocol number.  However, I can't see any robust solution
>without a second number.  There isn't a way to explicitly indicate
>that an IV is present in the ESP packet without adding another field
>(or overloading the semantics of an existing field, like the SPI).
>It's highly desirable to not add or overload a field, so that we
>retain compatibility with all of the existing implementations.
>Without an explicit indication, we're back to guessing.  It *might*
>be possible to make recommendations that would make this guessing
>more robust (i.e. an IV should only take certain values), but Paul
>and I looked at this possibility and we did not see anything that
>looked good.
>
>David
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ipsec mailing list
>Ipsec@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
>
>



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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 12 16:27:46 2007
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:25:31 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
From: mcgrew <mcgrew@cisco.com>
To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, <ipsec@ietf.org>
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 Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
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Hi Russ,

You're absolutely right that a new encapsulation can be used which removes
the need for a second IP protocol number assignment.  Despite that benefit,
I fear that the implementation cost for the new encapsulation could make the
authentication-only profile less attractive for potential adopters.   I've
never implemented a new encapsulation into an existing protocol stack, but
my impression is that it is non-trival because of the need to avoid data
copying and to handle stuff like MTUs properly, plus the fact that new IP
protocols are typically implemented inside of a kernel rather than in
application space.   But I haven't done a complete analysis yet, of course.

As an aside, the IP, ESP, TCP, and UDP headers are all 32-bit aligned, so if
an offset field is used, I would expect that we'd want to have it be 32 bits
long to preserve that alignment.   Also, we could have the offset field
indicate the number of bytes until the start of the ESP payload, which might
be slightly more convenient.

David

On 9/12/07 12:53 PM, "Russ Housley" <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote:

> Dave:
> 
> Thanks for the summary.
> 
> It occurs to me that the use of a new IP protocol number gives us the
> opportunity to define an encapsulation of the authenticated-with-ESP
> datagram.  I have not thought this out all of the way, so I am
> offering this up for discussion with no ego.
> 
> Say the new protocol number is associated with a very simple syntax,
> as follows:
> 
>     - OFFSET
>     - ESP
> 
> The first field tells the number of octets that need to be skipped to
> avoid the IV.  For many ciphersuites it will be zero.  It seems to me
> that carrying this extra word of zeros is a small price to pay for
> consistent processing of all ciphersuites.  It also has the benefit
> that only one port is used.
> 
> The second field is the ESP packet.  Of course, this encapsulation
> should only be used when authentication without encryption is used.
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> At 01:07 PM 9/12/2007, David McGrew wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I wanted to follow up on some of the comments raised about draft-
>> hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.
>> 
>> Paul and I did consider the use of a SPI range to indicate which
>> packets are NULL encrypted, but we rejected this method because there
>> are existing ESP implementations, some of which are in silicon, that
>> choose their own SPI values.  These implementations could not easily
>> support the use of a SPI range.  Also, if we relied on SPI semantics
>> to tell which ESP packets were using NULL encryption, then there
>> would be a large number of false positives due to the fact that all
>> of the ESP implementations currently fielded are not selecting their
>> SPIs to conform to some classification scheme.
>> 
>> As Steve points out, the use of an IPv4 Option is not tenable because
>> the majority of routers will use "slow path" processing on packets
>> with such an option, i.e. they would handle it at a software process
>> level rather than at the hardware interrupt level.    Unfortunately,
>> this perception is not out of date ;-)
>> 
>> It is a valid question whether or not it is worth two IP protocol
>> numbers to solve the problem that we need to indicate when an IV is
>> present.  I am not the best person to judge the cost of assigning a
>> second protocol number.  However, I can't see any robust solution
>> without a second number.  There isn't a way to explicitly indicate
>> that an IV is present in the ESP packet without adding another field
>> (or overloading the semantics of an existing field, like the SPI).
>> It's highly desirable to not add or overload a field, so that we
>> retain compatibility with all of the existing implementations.
>> Without an explicit indication, we're back to guessing.  It *might*
>> be possible to make recommendations that would make this guessing
>> more robust (i.e. an IV should only take certain values), but Paul
>> and I looked at this possibility and we did not see anything that
>> looked good.
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ipsec mailing list
>> Ipsec@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
>> 
>> 


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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 13 10:18:42 2007
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From: Tero Kivinen <kivinen@iki.fi>
To: David McGrew <mcgrew@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
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David McGrew writes:
> I wanted to follow up on some of the comments raised about draft- 
> hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.

Here is some comments:

Section 2.2 needs to be splitted to handle IKEv1 (or skip the IKEv1,
as it is already obsoleted) and IKEv2 separately.

Note, also that IKEv2 do not use protocol number 50 or similar
directly at all. It has separate IANA handled registry with the
protocol IDs:

RFC4306, section 3.3.1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
      o  Protocol ID (1 octet) - Specifies the IPsec protocol identifier
         for the current negotiation.  The defined values are:

          Protocol               Protocol ID
          RESERVED                0
          IKE                     1
          AH                      2
          ESP                     3
          RESERVED TO IANA        4-200
          PRIVATE USE             201-255
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Also it is not good idea to put the protocol id negotiation in that
place, as it doubles the SA payload data structure, which might cause
IKE packet fragmentation.

For IKEv2 it would be much more inline with rest of the IKEv2 to add
new notify like USE_ESP_NULL_PROTOCOL_ID, which would have similar
processing than what USE_TRANSPORT_MODE already has (i.e. both
initiator and responder include it and if included in both then it is
enabled, if not then we use default ID). 

> Paul and I did consider the use of a SPI range to indicate which  
> packets are NULL encrypted, but we rejected this method because there  
> are existing ESP implementations, some of which are in silicon, that  
> choose their own SPI values.  These implementations could not easily  
> support the use of a SPI range.

Can those already existing silicon support new protocol number without
modifications? I would guess not directly, but it might be possible to
update them by updating the firmware of the chip. On the other hand
SPI number allocation can also probably be updated by updating the
firmware.

> Also, if we relied on SPI semantics to tell which ESP packets were
> using NULL encryption, then there would be a large number of false
> positives due to the fact that all of the ESP implementations
> currently fielded are not selecting their SPIs to conform to some
> classification scheme.

That is valid concern, and the only reason for this draft seems to be
to reduce the number of errors happening in the classification. 

> As Steve points out, the use of an IPv4 Option is not tenable because  
> the majority of routers will use "slow path" processing on packets  
> with such an option, i.e. they would handle it at a software process  
> level rather than at the hardware interrupt level.    Unfortunately,  
> this perception is not out of date ;-)

I would guess that all the current ipsec hardware implementations
would process unknown protocol numbers in the slowpath anyways, so
before the hardware is updated the new protocol number will cause the
same problem. 

Also the security considerations sections should note that attacker
why wants to by pass the inspection hardware will of course use the
encrypted ESP packets if those packets are allowed to go through the
firewall, and if only ESP-NULL is ever allowed to go throught the
firewall, then the doing heuristic checks that will check all ESP
packets as they would be ESP-NULL is good enough, and if those packets
fails the IDS / IDP checking then they will be dropped, as will all
encrypted ESP packets too.

I think the introduction would require real use case scenario
explainign where this would be useful. I have not seen anybody to
explain me such use case.

This is often claimed (from the draft):

	Heuristic methods to parse ESP packets can be used, but these
	methods are not robust and they fail when their assumptions
	about ESP parameters and algorithms are wrong."

but I do not really belive that is true. If we are talking about the
CIF / IDS / IPS systems they will do deep inspection anyways, i.e.
make sure the TCP sessions are really established, and sequence
numbers are right etc, which means that getting random encrypted
packet to match those checks is smaller than getting the
random authentication data to match without knowing the key. Thus we
are able to drop all encrypted ESP packets which try to pass the
system, as they do not match te content inspection states of the real
plain text flows. 

Also, I do not really see point where firewall would allow ANY
encrypted traffic through if it wants to do inspection for ESP-NULL
packets, as why would attacker use ESP-NULL packets if it can use real
encrypted packets instead (for attacks using ESP-NULL and real
encrypted ESP packets you need to be able to create SA with the
intended destination host, so attacker must be able to authenticate
himself there for any case).

So I would like to see better real world rationale for the draft
first. 
-- 
kivinen@safenet-inc.com


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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:08:22 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
From: mcgrew <mcgrew@cisco.com>
To: Tero Kivinen <kivinen@iki.fi>
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Hi Tero,

On 9/13/07 7:17 AM, "Tero Kivinen" <kivinen@iki.fi> wrote:

> David McGrew writes:
>> I wanted to follow up on some of the comments raised about draft-
>> hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.
> 
> Here is some comments:

Thanks!

> 
> Section 2.2 needs to be splitted to handle IKEv1 (or skip the IKEv1,
> as it is already obsoleted) and IKEv2 separately.
> 
> Note, also that IKEv2 do not use protocol number 50 or similar
> directly at all. It has separate IANA handled registry with the
> protocol IDs:
> 
> RFC4306, section 3.3.1
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>       o  Protocol ID (1 octet) - Specifies the IPsec protocol identifier
>          for the current negotiation.  The defined values are:
> 
>           Protocol               Protocol ID
>           RESERVED                0
>           IKE                     1
>           AH                      2
>           ESP                     3
>           RESERVED TO IANA        4-200
>           PRIVATE USE             201-255
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Also it is not good idea to put the protocol id negotiation in that
> place, as it doubles the SA payload data structure, which might cause
> IKE packet fragmentation.

That's a good point.

> 
> For IKEv2 it would be much more inline with rest of the IKEv2 to add
> new notify like USE_ESP_NULL_PROTOCOL_ID, which would have similar
> processing than what USE_TRANSPORT_MODE already has (i.e. both
> initiator and responder include it and if included in both then it is
> enabled, if not then we use default ID).

Good suggestion, thanks.

> 
>> Paul and I did consider the use of a SPI range to indicate which
>> packets are NULL encrypted, but we rejected this method because there
>> are existing ESP implementations, some of which are in silicon, that
>> choose their own SPI values.  These implementations could not easily
>> support the use of a SPI range.
> 
> Can those already existing silicon support new protocol number without
> modifications? I would guess not directly, but it might be possible to
> update them by updating the firmware of the chip. On the other hand
> SPI number allocation can also probably be updated by updating the
> firmware.

In many systems, it would be easy to support a new protocol number by using
the trick of leaving the existing ESP implementation unmodified, but then
re-writing the IP protocol number before the packet is sent (or after it is
received).   This nice property holds because the actual ESP processing is
independent of the protocol number.

> 
>> Also, if we relied on SPI semantics to tell which ESP packets were
>> using NULL encryption, then there would be a large number of false
>> positives due to the fact that all of the ESP implementations
>> currently fielded are not selecting their SPIs to conform to some
>> classification scheme.
> 
> That is valid concern, and the only reason for this draft seems to be
> to reduce the number of errors happening in the classification.
> 
>> As Steve points out, the use of an IPv4 Option is not tenable because
>> the majority of routers will use "slow path" processing on packets
>> with such an option, i.e. they would handle it at a software process
>> level rather than at the hardware interrupt level.    Unfortunately,
>> this perception is not out of date ;-)
> 
> I would guess that all the current ipsec hardware implementations
> would process unknown protocol numbers in the slowpath anyways, so
> before the hardware is updated the new protocol number will cause the
> same problem. 

No, that's not right.  The problem with using an IPv4 Option is that every
router on the path between the ESP sender and receiver will be processing
the packets with the options in them using the slow path.   This is a far
worse problem than having sub-optimal performance on the ESP sender and
receiver.

> 
> Also the security considerations sections should note that attacker
> why wants to by pass the inspection hardware will of course use the
> encrypted ESP packets if those packets are allowed to go through the
> firewall, and if only ESP-NULL is ever allowed to go throught the
> firewall, then the doing heuristic checks that will check all ESP
> packets as they would be ESP-NULL is good enough, and if those packets
> fails the IDS / IDP checking then they will be dropped, as will all
> encrypted ESP packets too.
> 
> I think the introduction would require real use case scenario
> explainign where this would be useful. I have not seen anybody to
> explain me such use case.
> 
> This is often claimed (from the draft):
> 
> Heuristic methods to parse ESP packets can be used, but these
> methods are not robust and they fail when their assumptions
> about ESP parameters and algorithms are wrong."
> 

I've done some analysis on this which I'm in the process of writing up for
submission as an I-D.   I would be happy to send you a pre-draft version to
hear your thoughts on it.  But it appears that there are lots of ways in
which false positives can occur.

> but I do not really belive that is true. If we are talking about the
> CIF / IDS / IPS systems they will do deep inspection anyways,

But we are not assuming/requiring that deep inspection is taking place.  It
could be that the firewall is enforcing a policy based on TCP/UDP ports
and/or addresses contained in the ESP payload, for example.

> i.e.
> make sure the TCP sessions are really established, and sequence
> numbers are right etc, which means that getting random encrypted
> packet to match those checks is smaller than getting the
> random authentication data to match without knowing the key.

In what you're describing, you're assuming that the inspection point
maintains state across a packet flow.  You're right that an inspection point
that does that can make really effective use of heuristics, but it is highly
desirable to not require that inspection points be stateful.

> Thus we
> are able to drop all encrypted ESP packets which try to pass the
> system, as they do not match te content inspection states of the real
> plain text flows.
> 
> Also, I do not really see point where firewall would allow ANY
> encrypted traffic through if it wants to do inspection for ESP-NULL
> packets, as why would attacker use ESP-NULL packets if it can use real
> encrypted packets instead (for attacks using ESP-NULL and real
> encrypted ESP packets you need to be able to create SA with the
> intended destination host, so attacker must be able to authenticate
> himself there for any case).

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that I understand your point here.  I think
you're suggesting that a firewall that wants to inspect *some* ESP traffic
should require that *all* ESP-protected traffic is NULL-encrypted.  But
requiring that NULL encryption be used doesn't make the job of recognizing
NULL encryption any easier.

Best regards,

David

> 
> So I would like to see better real world rationale for the draft
> first. 


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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 13 12:37:27 2007
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Hi,

Where do we get the identifier from when we are doing X-Auth using Radius-Chap.


With warm regards,
Sumit


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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 13 12:38:16 2007
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Hi,

Where do we get the identifier from when we are doing X-Auth using Radius-Chap.


With warm regards,
Sumit


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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 13 12:38:59 2007
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Hi,

What is the use of Domain in X-Auth?

With warm regards,
Sumit


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From sezlacasekreolmut@lacasekreol.de Thu Sep 13 13:57:44 2007
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David and Paul,=0A=0AOne other way to achieve this feature is to have the s=
ignaling in IKE in such a way that the firewalls can look into the IKE pack=
ets and determine the null encryption. I believe that IKEv2 allows an unenc=
rypted payload along with an encrypted payload. This unencrypted payload ca=
n include the two SPI values in addition to the IV offset. This payload can=
 either be a NOTIFICATION or a new payload type. This would require no chan=
ges to IPSEC data path and does not require any new IP protocol numbers. It=
 also has the advantage that both ipsec end nodes do not need to support th=
is feature for it to be used making it easy to deploy.=0A=0AThe disadvantag=
es I see are that this new payload will be unauthenticated and it does not =
apply to IKEv1.=0A=0ASaroop=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: mcgrew=
 <mcgrew@cisco.com>=0ATo: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>; ipsec@ietf.o=
rg=0ASent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:25:31 PM=0ASubject: Re: [Ipsec] =
Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt=0A=0AHi Russ,=0A=0AY=
ou're absolutely right that a new encapsulation can be used which removes=
=0Athe need for a second IP protocol number assignment.  Despite that benef=
it,=0AI fear that the implementation cost for the new encapsulation could m=
ake the=0Aauthentication-only profile less attractive for potential adopter=
s.   I've=0Anever implemented a new encapsulation into an existing protocol=
 stack, but=0Amy impression is that it is non-trival because of the need to=
 avoid data=0Acopying and to handle stuff like MTUs properly, plus the fact=
 that new IP=0Aprotocols are typically implemented inside of a kernel rathe=
r than in=0Aapplication space.   But I haven't done a complete analysis yet=
, of course.=0A=0AAs an aside, the IP, ESP, TCP, and UDP headers are all 32=
-bit aligned, so if=0Aan offset field is used, I would expect that we'd wan=
t to have it be 32 bits=0Along to preserve that alignment.   Also, we could=
 have the offset field=0Aindicate the number of bytes until the start of th=
e ESP payload, which might=0Abe slightly more convenient.=0A=0ADavid=0A=0AO=
n 9/12/07 12:53 PM, "Russ Housley" <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote:=0A=0A> Dav=
e:=0A> =0A> Thanks for the summary.=0A> =0A> It occurs to me that the use o=
f a new IP protocol number gives us the=0A> opportunity to define an encaps=
ulation of the authenticated-with-ESP=0A> datagram.  I have not thought thi=
s out all of the way, so I am=0A> offering this up for discussion with no e=
go.=0A> =0A> Say the new protocol number is associated with a very simple s=
yntax,=0A> as follows:=0A> =0A>     - OFFSET=0A>     - ESP=0A> =0A> The fir=
st field tells the number of octets that need to be skipped to=0A> avoid th=
e IV.  For many ciphersuites it will be zero.  It seems to me=0A> that carr=
ying this extra word of zeros is a small price to pay for=0A> consistent pr=
ocessing of all ciphersuites.  It also has the benefit=0A> that only one po=
rt is used.=0A> =0A> The second field is the ESP packet.  Of course, this e=
ncapsulation=0A> should only be used when authentication without encryption=
 is used.=0A> =0A> Russ=0A> =0A> =0A> At 01:07 PM 9/12/2007, David McGrew w=
rote:=0A>> Hi All,=0A>> =0A>> I wanted to follow up on some of the comments=
 raised about draft-=0A>> hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.=0A>> =0A>> Paul and=
 I did consider the use of a SPI range to indicate which=0A>> packets are N=
ULL encrypted, but we rejected this method because there=0A>> are existing =
ESP implementations, some of which are in silicon, that=0A>> choose their o=
wn SPI values.  These implementations could not easily=0A>> support the use=
 of a SPI range.  Also, if we relied on SPI semantics=0A>> to tell which ES=
P packets were using NULL encryption, then there=0A>> would be a large numb=
er of false positives due to the fact that all=0A>> of the ESP implementati=
ons currently fielded are not selecting their=0A>> SPIs to conform to some =
classification scheme.=0A>> =0A>> As Steve points out, the use of an IPv4 O=
ption is not tenable because=0A>> the majority of routers will use "slow pa=
th" processing on packets=0A>> with such an option, i.e. they would handle =
it at a software process=0A>> level rather than at the hardware interrupt l=
evel.    Unfortunately,=0A>> this perception is not out of date ;-)=0A>> =
=0A>> It is a valid question whether or not it is worth two IP protocol=0A>=
> numbers to solve the problem that we need to indicate when an IV is=0A>> =
present.  I am not the best person to judge the cost of assigning a=0A>> se=
cond protocol number.  However, I can't see any robust solution=0A>> withou=
t a second number.  There isn't a way to explicitly indicate=0A>> that an I=
V is present in the ESP packet without adding another field=0A>> (or overlo=
ading the semantics of an existing field, like the SPI).=0A>> It's highly d=
esirable to not add or overload a field, so that we=0A>> retain compatibili=
ty with all of the existing implementations.=0A>> Without an explicit indic=
ation, we're back to guessing.  It *might*=0A>> be possible to make recomme=
ndations that would make this guessing=0A>> more robust (i.e. an IV should =
only take certain values), but Paul=0A>> and I looked at this possibility a=
nd we did not see anything that=0A>> looked good.=0A>> =0A>> David=0A>> =0A=
>> =0A>> _______________________________________________=0A>> Ipsec mailing=
 list=0A>> Ipsec@ietf.org=0A>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec=
=0A>> =0A>> =0A=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0AIPse=
c mailing list=0AIPsec@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ip=
sec=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
--0-84924622-1189708752=:11465
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;fon=
t-size:12pt"><div style=3D"font-family: times new roman,new york,times,seri=
f; font-size: 12pt;">David and Paul,<br><br>One other way to achieve this f=
eature is to have the signaling in IKE in such a way that the firewalls can=
 look into the IKE packets and determine the null encryption. I believe tha=
t IKEv2 allows an unencrypted payload along with an encrypted payload. This=
 unencrypted payload can include the two SPI values in addition to the IV o=
ffset. This payload can either be a NOTIFICATION or a new payload type. Thi=
s would require no changes to IPSEC data path and does not require any new =
IP protocol numbers. It also has the advantage that both ipsec end nodes do=
 not need to support this feature for it to be used making it easy to deplo=
y.<br><br>The disadvantages I see are that this new payload will be
 unauthenticated and it does not apply to IKEv1.<br><br>Saroop<br><br><div =
style=3D"font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt=
;">----- Original Message ----<br>From: mcgrew &lt;mcgrew@cisco.com&gt;<br>=
To: Russ Housley &lt;housley@vigilsec.com&gt;; ipsec@ietf.org<br>Sent: Wedn=
esday, September 12, 2007 1:25:31 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Actio=
n:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt<br><br><div>Hi Russ,<br><br>You're=
 absolutely right that a new encapsulation can be used which removes<br>the=
 need for a second IP protocol number assignment.&nbsp;&nbsp;Despite that b=
enefit,<br>I fear that the implementation cost for the new encapsulation co=
uld make the<br>authentication-only profile less attractive for potential a=
dopters.&nbsp;&nbsp; I've<br>never implemented a new encapsulation into an =
existing protocol stack, but<br>my impression is that it is non-trival beca=
use of the need to avoid data<br>copying and to handle stuff like MTUs
 properly, plus the fact that new IP<br>protocols are typically implemented=
 inside of a kernel rather than in<br>application space.&nbsp;&nbsp; But I =
haven't done a complete analysis yet, of course.<br><br>As an aside, the IP=
, ESP, TCP, and UDP headers are all 32-bit aligned, so if<br>an offset fiel=
d is used, I would expect that we'd want to have it be 32 bits<br>long to p=
reserve that alignment.&nbsp;&nbsp; Also, we could have the offset field<br=
>indicate the number of bytes until the start of the ESP payload, which mig=
ht<br>be slightly more convenient.<br><br>David<br><br>On 9/12/07 12:53 PM,=
 "Russ Housley" &lt;housley@vigilsec.com&gt; wrote:<br><br>&gt; Dave:<br>&g=
t; <br>&gt; Thanks for the summary.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; It occurs to me that t=
he use of a new IP protocol number gives us the<br>&gt; opportunity to defi=
ne an encapsulation of the authenticated-with-ESP<br>&gt; datagram.&nbsp;&n=
bsp;I have not thought this out all of the way, so I am<br>&gt;
 offering this up for discussion with no ego.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Say the new =
protocol number is associated with a very simple syntax,<br>&gt; as follows=
:<br>&gt; <br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - OFFSET<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; - ESP<br>&gt; <br>&gt; The first field tells the number of octets =
that need to be skipped to<br>&gt; avoid the IV.&nbsp;&nbsp;For many cipher=
suites it will be zero.&nbsp;&nbsp;It seems to me<br>&gt; that carrying thi=
s extra word of zeros is a small price to pay for<br>&gt; consistent proces=
sing of all ciphersuites.&nbsp;&nbsp;It also has the benefit<br>&gt; that o=
nly one port is used.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; The second field is the ESP packet.&=
nbsp;&nbsp;Of course, this encapsulation<br>&gt; should only be used when a=
uthentication without encryption is used.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Russ<br>&gt; <br=
>&gt; <br>&gt; At 01:07 PM 9/12/2007, David McGrew wrote:<br>&gt;&gt; Hi Al=
l,<br>&gt;&gt; <br>&gt;&gt; I wanted to follow up on some of the
 comments raised about draft-<br>&gt;&gt; hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.<br>=
&gt;&gt; <br>&gt;&gt; Paul and I did consider the use of a SPI range to ind=
icate which<br>&gt;&gt; packets are NULL encrypted, but we rejected this me=
thod because there<br>&gt;&gt; are existing ESP implementations, some of wh=
ich are in silicon, that<br>&gt;&gt; choose their own SPI values.&nbsp;&nbs=
p;These implementations could not easily<br>&gt;&gt; support the use of a S=
PI range.&nbsp;&nbsp;Also, if we relied on SPI semantics<br>&gt;&gt; to tel=
l which ESP packets were using NULL encryption, then there<br>&gt;&gt; woul=
d be a large number of false positives due to the fact that all<br>&gt;&gt;=
 of the ESP implementations currently fielded are not selecting their<br>&g=
t;&gt; SPIs to conform to some classification scheme.<br>&gt;&gt; <br>&gt;&=
gt; As Steve points out, the use of an IPv4 Option is not tenable because<b=
r>&gt;&gt; the majority of routers will use "slow path" processing
 on packets<br>&gt;&gt; with such an option, i.e. they would handle it at a=
 software process<br>&gt;&gt; level rather than at the hardware interrupt l=
evel.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Unfortunately,<br>&gt;&gt; this perception is =
not out of date ;-)<br>&gt;&gt; <br>&gt;&gt; It is a valid question whether=
 or not it is worth two IP protocol<br>&gt;&gt; numbers to solve the proble=
m that we need to indicate when an IV is<br>&gt;&gt; present.&nbsp;&nbsp;I =
am not the best person to judge the cost of assigning a<br>&gt;&gt; second =
protocol number.&nbsp;&nbsp;However, I can't see any robust solution<br>&gt=
;&gt; without a second number.&nbsp;&nbsp;There isn't a way to explicitly i=
ndicate<br>&gt;&gt; that an IV is present in the ESP packet without adding =
another field<br>&gt;&gt; (or overloading the semantics of an existing fiel=
d, like the SPI).<br>&gt;&gt; It's highly desirable to not add or overload =
a field, so that we<br>&gt;&gt; retain compatibility with all of the
 existing implementations.<br>&gt;&gt; Without an explicit indication, we'r=
e back to guessing.&nbsp;&nbsp;It *might*<br>&gt;&gt; be possible to make r=
ecommendations that would make this guessing<br>&gt;&gt; more robust (i.e. =
an IV should only take certain values), but Paul<br>&gt;&gt; and I looked a=
t this possibility and we did not see anything that<br>&gt;&gt; looked good=
.<br>&gt;&gt; <br>&gt;&gt; David<br>&gt;&gt; <br>&gt;&gt; <br>&gt;&gt; ____=
___________________________________________<br>&gt;&gt; Ipsec mailing list<=
br>&gt;&gt; Ipsec@ietf.org<br>&gt;&gt; <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https:/=
/www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listin=
fo/ipsec</a><br>&gt;&gt; <br>&gt;&gt; <br><br><br>_________________________=
______________________<br>IPsec mailing list<br>IPsec@ietf.org<br><a target=
=3D"_blank"
 href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec">https://www1.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/ipsec</a><br></div></div><br></div></div></body></html>
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To: Saroop Mathur <saroop1@yahoo.com>, mcgrew <mcgrew@cisco.com>,
	Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, ipsec@ietf.org
From: Jyothi <vjyothi@intoto.com>
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D
  Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
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Hi,

My understanding is that:
While applying IPSEC to the plain pkt, In outer IP hdr, you are 
thinking another protocol number in case of esp-null.

Assuming the above understanding is right,
what about the NAT traversal scenarios???
In NAT case outer IP header contains the UDP protocol and it is 
assumed as always ESP.

Thanks
Jyothi

At 12:09 AM 9/14/2007, Saroop Mathur wrote:
>David and Paul,
>
>One other way to achieve this feature is to have the signaling in 
>IKE in such a way that the firewalls can look into the IKE packets 
>and determine the null encryption. I believe that IKEv2 allows an 
>unencrypted payload along with an encrypted payload. This 
>unencrypted payload can include the two SPI values in addition to 
>the IV offset. This payload can either be a NOTIFICATION or a new 
>payload type. This would require no changes to IPSEC data path and 
>does not require any new IP protocol numbers. It also has the 
>advantage that both ipsec end nodes do not need to support this 
>feature for it to be used making it easy to deploy.
>
>The disadvantages I see are that this new payload will be 
>unauthenticated and it does not apply to IKEv1.
>
>Saroop
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: mcgrew <mcgrew@cisco.com>
>To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>; ipsec@ietf.org
>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:25:31 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
>
>Hi Russ,
>
>You're absolutely right that a new encapsulation can be used which removes
>the need for a second IP protocol number assignment.  Despite that benefit,
>I fear that the implementation cost for the new encapsulation could make the
>authentication-only profile less attractive for potential adopters.   I've
>never implemented a new encapsulation into an existing protocol stack, but
>my impression is that it is non-trival because of the need to avoid data
>copying and to handle stuff like MTUs properly, plus the fact that new IP
>protocols are typically implemented inside of a kernel rather than in
>application space.   But I haven't done a complete analysis yet, of course.
>
>As an aside, the IP, ESP, TCP, and UDP headers are all 32-bit aligned, so if
>an offset field is used, I would expect that we'd want to have it be 32 bits
>long to preserve that alignment.   Also, we could have the offset field
>indicate the number of bytes until the start of the ESP payload, which might
>be slightly more convenient.
>
>David
>
>On 9/12/07 12:53 PM, "Russ Housley" <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote:
>
> > Dave:
> >
> > Thanks for the summary.
> >
> > It occurs to me that the use of a new IP protocol number gives us the
> > opportunity to define an encapsulation of the authenticated-with-ESP
> > datagram.  I have not thought this out all of the way, so I am
> > offering this up for discussion with no ego.
> >
> > Say the new protocol number is associated with a very simple syntax,
> > as follows:
> >
> >     - OFFSET
> >     - ESP
> >
> > The first field tells the number of octets that need to be skipped to
> > avoid the IV.  For many ciphersuites it will be zero.  It seems to me
> > that carrying this extra word of zeros is a small price to pay for
> > consistent processing of all ciphersuites.  It also has the benefit
> > that only one port is used.
> >
> > The second field is the ESP packet.  Of course, this encapsulation
> > should only be used when authentication without encryption is used.
> >
> > Russ
> >
> >
> > At 01:07 PM 9/12/2007, David McGrew wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I wanted to follow up on some of the comments raised about draft-
> >> hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.
> >>
> >> Paul and I did consider the use of a SPI range to indicate which
> >> packets are NULL encrypted, but we rejected this method because there
> >> are existing ESP implementations, some of which are in silicon, that
> >> choose their own SPI values.  These implementations could not easily
> >> support the use of a SPI range.  Also, if we relied on SPI semantics
> >> to tell which ESP packets were using NULL encryption, then there
> >> would be a large number of false positives due to the fact that all
> >> of the ESP implementations currently fielded are not selecting their
> >> SPIs to conform to some classification scheme.
> >>
> >> As Steve points out, the use of an IPv4 Option is not tenable because
> >> the majority of routers will use "slow path" processing on packets
> >> with such an option, i.e. they would handle it at a software process
> >> level rather than at the hardware interrupt level.    Unfortunately,
> >> this perception is not out of date ;-)
> >>
> >> It is a valid question whether or not it is worth two IP protocol
> >> numbers to solve the problem that we need to indicate when an IV is
> >> present.  I am not the best person to judge the cost of assigning a
> >> second protocol number.  However, I can't see any robust solution
> >> without a second number.  There isn't a way to explicitly indicate
> >> that an IV is present in the ESP packet without adding another field
> >> (or overloading the semantics of an existing field, like the SPI).
> >> It's highly desirable to not add or overload a field, so that we
> >> retain compatibility with all of the existing implementations.
> >> Without an explicit indication, we're back to guessing.  It *might*
> >> be possible to make recommendations that would make this guessing
> >> more robust (i.e. an IV should only take certain values), but Paul
> >> and I looked at this possibility and we did not see anything that
> >> looked good.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ipsec mailing list
> >> Ipsec@ietf.org
> >> 
> <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
> >>
> >>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>IPsec mailing list
>IPsec@ietf.org
><https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
>
>_______________________________________________
>IPsec mailing list
>IPsec@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec

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--=====================_4468625==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<body>
Hi,<br><br>
My understanding is that:<br>
While applying IPSEC to the plain pkt, In outer IP hdr, you are thinking
another protocol number in case of esp-null.<br><br>
Assuming the above understanding is right,<br>
what about the NAT traversal scenarios??? <br>
In NAT case outer IP header contains the UDP protocol and it is assumed
as always ESP.<br><br>
Thanks<br>
Jyothi<br><br>
At 12:09 AM 9/14/2007, Saroop Mathur wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">David and Paul,<br><br>
One other way to achieve this feature is to have the signaling in IKE in
such a way that the firewalls can look into the IKE packets and determine
the null encryption. I believe that IKEv2 allows an unencrypted payload
along with an encrypted payload. This unencrypted payload can include the
two SPI values in addition to the IV offset. This payload can either be a
NOTIFICATION or a new payload type. This would require no changes to
IPSEC data path and does not require any new IP protocol numbers. It also
has the advantage that both ipsec end nodes do not need to support this
feature for it to be used making it easy to deploy.<br><br>
The disadvantages I see are that this new payload will be unauthenticated
and it does not apply to IKEv1.<br><br>
Saroop<br><br>
----- Original Message ----<br>
From: mcgrew &lt;mcgrew@cisco.com&gt;<br>
To: Russ Housley &lt;housley@vigilsec.com&gt;; ipsec@ietf.org<br>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:25:31 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D
Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt<br><br>
Hi Russ,<br><br>
You're absolutely right that a new encapsulation can be used which
removes<br>
the need for a second IP protocol number assignment.&nbsp; Despite that
benefit,<br>
I fear that the implementation cost for the new encapsulation could make
the<br>
authentication-only profile less attractive for potential
adopters.&nbsp;&nbsp; I've<br>
never implemented a new encapsulation into an existing protocol stack,
but<br>
my impression is that it is non-trival because of the need to avoid
data<br>
copying and to handle stuff like MTUs properly, plus the fact that new
IP<br>
protocols are typically implemented inside of a kernel rather than
in<br>
application space.&nbsp;&nbsp; But I haven't done a complete analysis
yet, of course.<br><br>
As an aside, the IP, ESP, TCP, and UDP headers are all 32-bit aligned, so
if<br>
an offset field is used, I would expect that we'd want to have it be 32
bits<br>
long to preserve that alignment.&nbsp;&nbsp; Also, we could have the
offset field<br>
indicate the number of bytes until the start of the ESP payload, which
might<br>
be slightly more convenient.<br><br>
David<br><br>
On 9/12/07 12:53 PM, &quot;Russ Housley&quot;
&lt;housley@vigilsec.com&gt; wrote:<br><br>
&gt; Dave:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks for the summary.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; It occurs to me that the use of a new IP protocol number gives us
the<br>
&gt; opportunity to define an encapsulation of the
authenticated-with-ESP<br>
&gt; datagram.&nbsp; I have not thought this out all of the way, so I
am<br>
&gt; offering this up for discussion with no ego.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Say the new protocol number is associated with a very simple
syntax,<br>
&gt; as follows:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - OFFSET<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - ESP<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The first field tells the number of octets that need to be skipped
to<br>
&gt; avoid the IV.&nbsp; For many ciphersuites it will be zero.&nbsp; It
seems to me<br>
&gt; that carrying this extra word of zeros is a small price to pay
for<br>
&gt; consistent processing of all ciphersuites.&nbsp; It also has the
benefit<br>
&gt; that only one port is used.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The second field is the ESP packet.&nbsp; Of course, this
encapsulation<br>
&gt; should only be used when authentication without encryption is
used.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Russ<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; At 01:07 PM 9/12/2007, David McGrew wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Hi All,<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; I wanted to follow up on some of the comments raised about
draft-<br>
&gt;&gt; hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Paul and I did consider the use of a SPI range to indicate
which<br>
&gt;&gt; packets are NULL encrypted, but we rejected this method because
there<br>
&gt;&gt; are existing ESP implementations, some of which are in silicon,
that<br>
&gt;&gt; choose their own SPI values.&nbsp; These implementations could
not easily<br>
&gt;&gt; support the use of a SPI range.&nbsp; Also, if we relied on SPI
semantics<br>
&gt;&gt; to tell which ESP packets were using NULL encryption, then
there<br>
&gt;&gt; would be a large number of false positives due to the fact that
all<br>
&gt;&gt; of the ESP implementations currently fielded are not selecting
their<br>
&gt;&gt; SPIs to conform to some classification scheme.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; As Steve points out, the use of an IPv4 Option is not tenable
because<br>
&gt;&gt; the majority of routers will use &quot;slow path&quot;
processing on packets<br>
&gt;&gt; with such an option, i.e. they would handle it at a software
process<br>
&gt;&gt; level rather than at the hardware interrupt
level.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Unfortunately,<br>
&gt;&gt; this perception is not out of date ;-)<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; It is a valid question whether or not it is worth two IP
protocol<br>
&gt;&gt; numbers to solve the problem that we need to indicate when an IV
is<br>
&gt;&gt; present.&nbsp; I am not the best person to judge the cost of
assigning a<br>
&gt;&gt; second protocol number.&nbsp; However, I can't see any robust
solution<br>
&gt;&gt; without a second number.&nbsp; There isn't a way to explicitly
indicate<br>
&gt;&gt; that an IV is present in the ESP packet without adding another
field<br>
&gt;&gt; (or overloading the semantics of an existing field, like the
SPI).<br>
&gt;&gt; It's highly desirable to not add or overload a field, so that
we<br>
&gt;&gt; retain compatibility with all of the existing
implementations.<br>
&gt;&gt; Without an explicit indication, we're back to guessing.&nbsp; It
*might*<br>
&gt;&gt; be possible to make recommendations that would make this
guessing<br>
&gt;&gt; more robust (i.e. an IV should only take certain values), but
Paul<br>
&gt;&gt; and I looked at this possibility and we did not see anything
that<br>
&gt;&gt; looked good.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; David<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; Ipsec mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; Ipsec@ietf.org<br>
&gt;&gt;
<a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec">
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 14 01:53:50 2007
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To: Saroop Mathur <saroop1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
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Hi,

Saroop Mathur <saroop1@yahoo.com> writes:

> One other way to achieve this feature is to have the signaling in IKE
> in such a way that the firewalls can look into the IKE packets and
> determine the null encryption.
> [...]

This makes the assumption that the IKE negotiation occurs using the same
path. This is not always the case. Best example is IPsec-protected MIPv6
traffic. IKE negotiation occurs on some network and then you move to
another network (transparently for transport mode and using update of
tunnels endpoint through PF_KEY MIGRATE). No IKE exchange occurs from
the new network. 

Regards,

a+



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mcgrew writes:
> > Can those already existing silicon support new protocol number without
> > modifications? I would guess not directly, but it might be possible to
> > update them by updating the firmware of the chip. On the other hand
> > SPI number allocation can also probably be updated by updating the
> > firmware.
> 
> In many systems, it would be easy to support a new protocol number by using
> the trick of leaving the existing ESP implementation unmodified, but then
> re-writing the IP protocol number before the packet is sent (or after it is
> received).   This nice property holds because the actual ESP processing is
> independent of the protocol number.

Yes, but that usually still requires changes to the hardware or the
firmware of the hardware, as usually the packets come directly to the
IPsec hardware based on the hardware checking the protocol numbers. 

> > but I do not really belive that is true. If we are talking about the
> > CIF / IDS / IPS systems they will do deep inspection anyways,
> 
> But we are not assuming/requiring that deep inspection is taking place.  It
> could be that the firewall is enforcing a policy based on TCP/UDP ports
> and/or addresses contained in the ESP payload, for example.

That is already going to the TCP layer of the packet, thus checking
more and more stuff from inside the packet (what is defined deep, and
what is not is changing all the time). I do not think people consider
non-statefull packet filtering based on IP address and ports enough
for any firewall anymore. Almost every firewall want to handle TCP or
UDP flows opened from inside differently than those opened from
outside, which requires the firewalls to keep track of the TCP and UDP
flows, thus checking for TCP SYN/FIN/RST etc flags and usually also
checking sequence numbers and so on.

Devices which do support very simple address and port based filtering
usually do not know how to do that inside the ESP-NULL packets
regardless which format we use.

> In what you're describing, you're assuming that the inspection point
> maintains state across a packet flow.  You're right that an inspection point
> that does that can make really effective use of heuristics, but it is highly
> desirable to not require that inspection points be stateful.

All your examples you gave in the draft were stateful:
context-inspecting firewalls, ACL-enforcing firewalls, intrusion
detection systems, intrusion preventation systems etc.



> > Thus we
> > are able to drop all encrypted ESP packets which try to pass the
> > system, as they do not match te content inspection states of the real
> > plain text flows.
> > 
> > Also, I do not really see point where firewall would allow ANY
> > encrypted traffic through if it wants to do inspection for ESP-NULL
> > packets, as why would attacker use ESP-NULL packets if it can use real
> > encrypted packets instead (for attacks using ESP-NULL and real
> > encrypted ESP packets you need to be able to create SA with the
> > intended destination host, so attacker must be able to authenticate
> > himself there for any case).
> 
> I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that I understand your point here.  I think
> you're suggesting that a firewall that wants to inspect *some* ESP traffic
> should require that *all* ESP-protected traffic is NULL-encrypted.  But
> requiring that NULL encryption be used doesn't make the job of recognizing
> NULL encryption any easier.

I mean if someone wants to attack something which is behind firewall
that will let both ESP-NULL and encrypted ESP packets through the
firewall, why would the attacker use ESP-NULL where the firewall might
detect the attacks. He would of couse use the encrypted ESP packets
instead as then he is sure the firewall cannot detect the attack.

As in both cases the attacker needs to be able to create SA with the
host he is attacking to (i.e. he has some kind of security
relationship with the host), and we do know that the firewall is
trying to detect cases where the host being attacked has misconfigured
policy which allowed creating SA selectors which should be allowed to
go past the firewall. Thus if we know that the host being attacked do
have unsecure IPsec policy it is not really feasible to assume they
have policy unsecure policy based on one security problem (invalid
selectors), compared to have policy based on other security problem
(allowing encrypted ESP).

So for the filtering to be effective the firewall need to block all
ESP packets which are not ESP-NULL destioned to the host he is trying
to protect, as the firewall cannot trust the node he is protecting to
have secure IPsec policy rejecting invalid ESP encrypted connections. 
-- 
kivinen@safenet-inc.com


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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 14 08:21:58 2007
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From: Tero Kivinen <kivinen@iki.fi>
To: Saroop Mathur <saroop1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
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Saroop Mathur writes:
> David and Paul,
> 
> One other way to achieve this feature is to have the signaling in
> IKE in such a way that the firewalls can look into the IKE packets
> and determine the null encryption. I believe that IKEv2 allows an
> unencrypted payload along with an encrypted payload. This
> unencrypted payload can include the two SPI values in addition to
> the IV offset. This payload can either be a NOTIFICATION or a new
> payload type. This would require no changes to IPSEC data path and
> does not require any new IP protocol numbers. It also has the
> advantage that both ipsec end nodes do not need to support this
> feature for it to be used making it easy to deploy. 

Hmm... that sounds interesting idea, and might be quite usable. It
would of course require firewalls to be able to do filtering based on
the SPIs, but that should fall in to the category they can do fast
anyways.

Inspecting IKE packets would not be that big problem, and as the
exchange type which tells if this is CREATE_CHILD_SA is in clear they
can even block the CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange which do not provide them
the SPIs to look at (which will cause the IKEv2 SA being teared down).

Of course they would need to trus the end nodes to send and check the
SPI numbers sent in the clear text packets, so that again requires
trust to the misconfigured nodes they are trying to protect.

If the modes are properly configured and have secure IPsec policy
there is no need for firewall to inspect anything. If the nodes are
not properly configured and have insecure IPsec policy then they might
even have this feature turned off. On the other hand then we can block
the connection and we know something is wrong as nothing works for
that insecure node. Protection against both ends having corrupted
IPsec code which sends wrong SPI numbers in the outside of the IKEv2
packets, but uses different once inside, is outside the scope of
protection what is tried here (we need to protect the one node (i.e.
the attacker node outside) sending wrong information in that outer
notification).

> The disadvantages I see are that this new payload will be
> unauthenticated and it does not apply to IKEv1.

As IKEv1 is already obsoleted, and should not be used anymore for new
work, I do not consider this a problem. 
-- 
kivinen@safenet-inc.com


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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:44:02 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-hoffman-esp-null-protocol-00.txt
From: mcgrew <mcgrew@cisco.com>
To: Tero Kivinen <kivinen@iki.fi>
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Hi Tero,

On 9/14/07 5:09 AM, "Tero Kivinen" <kivinen@iki.fi> wrote:
> 
>>> but I do not really belive that is true. If we are talking about the
>>> CIF / IDS / IPS systems they will do deep inspection anyways,
>> 
>> But we are not assuming/requiring that deep inspection is taking place.  It
>> could be that the firewall is enforcing a policy based on TCP/UDP ports
>> and/or addresses contained in the ESP payload, for example.
> 
> That is already going to the TCP layer of the packet, thus checking
> more and more stuff from inside the packet (what is defined deep, and
> what is not is changing all the time). I do not think people consider
> non-statefull packet filtering based on IP address and ports enough
> for any firewall anymore.

I agree that many people see value in inspection at higher layers.  But
certainly conventional ACLs using addr/port/protocol are still very common
and very useful.

> Almost every firewall want to handle TCP or
> UDP flows opened from inside differently than those opened from
> outside, which requires the firewalls to keep track of the TCP and UDP
> flows, thus checking for TCP SYN/FIN/RST etc flags and usually also
> checking sequence numbers and so on.

True, but we would not want to require a firewall to generate and maintain
state based on packets that it receives from the outside, such as ESP-NULL
packets.  

> 
> Devices which do support very simple address and port based filtering
> usually do not know how to do that inside the ESP-NULL packets
> regardless which format we use.

It is highly desirable to not require that an inspection point maintain
per-flow state in order to determine which packets are NULL encrypted.
Even if the inspection point has the capability of maintaining state, we
want to minimize the state that it has to store.

> 
>> In what you're describing, you're assuming that the inspection point
>> maintains state across a packet flow.  You're right that an inspection point
>> that does that can make really effective use of heuristics, but it is highly
>> desirable to not require that inspection points be stateful.
> 
> All your examples you gave in the draft were stateful:
> context-inspecting firewalls, ACL-enforcing firewalls, intrusion
> detection systems, intrusion preventation systems etc.

The "ACL" example was meant to specifically refer to stateless inspection
based on addresses and ports.  We'll be more clear in the next version of
the draft.

> 
> 
> 
>>> Thus we
>>> are able to drop all encrypted ESP packets which try to pass the
>>> system, as they do not match te content inspection states of the real
>>> plain text flows.
>>> 
>>> Also, I do not really see point where firewall would allow ANY
>>> encrypted traffic through if it wants to do inspection for ESP-NULL
>>> packets, as why would attacker use ESP-NULL packets if it can use real
>>> encrypted packets instead (for attacks using ESP-NULL and real
>>> encrypted ESP packets you need to be able to create SA with the
>>> intended destination host, so attacker must be able to authenticate
>>> himself there for any case).
>> 
>> I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that I understand your point here.  I think
>> you're suggesting that a firewall that wants to inspect *some* ESP traffic
>> should require that *all* ESP-protected traffic is NULL-encrypted.  But
>> requiring that NULL encryption be used doesn't make the job of recognizing
>> NULL encryption any easier.
> 

Thanks for explaining further, more below.

> I mean if someone wants to attack something which is behind firewall
> that will let both ESP-NULL and encrypted ESP packets through the
> firewall, why would the attacker use ESP-NULL where the firewall might
> detect the attacks. He would of couse use the encrypted ESP packets
> instead as then he is sure the firewall cannot detect the attack.

Well, an attacker would be motivated to use ESP-NULL in order to attack a
host that had a policy that only accepted NULL encryption.  In this case,
the attacker would know that the plaintext was available for inspection, but
would be hoping that the attack would go unnoticed.

> 
> As in both cases the attacker needs to be able to create SA with the
> host he is attacking to (i.e. he has some kind of security
> relationship with the host), and we do know that the firewall is
> trying to detect cases where the host being attacked has misconfigured
> policy which allowed creating SA selectors which should be allowed to
> go past the firewall.

It might be a useful to have a firewall that detected misconfigured policy
on the networks that it protects, but let's not assume that in our analysis
of requirements.  

> Thus if we know that the host being attacked do
> have unsecure IPsec policy

This could be the case, but we can't require it.

> it is not really feasible to assume they
> have policy unsecure policy based on one security problem (invalid
> selectors), compared to have policy based on other security problem
> (allowing encrypted ESP).
> 
> So for the filtering to be effective the firewall need to block all
> ESP packets which are not ESP-NULL destioned to the host he is trying
> to protect, as the firewall cannot trust the node he is protecting to
> have secure IPsec policy rejecting invalid ESP encrypted connections.

One of the main motivations for inspection inside of auth-only ESP, I think,
is the case in which an ESP sender/receiver has been trusted, but may be
subverted.  In this case, the host does have the correct policy, but it has
been the victim of a worm or some other form of malware.   Your analysis (if
I'm understanding it) disregards this case.

Best regards,

David


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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 14 11:26:03 2007
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Subject: [IPsec] IPv6 Routing Header and IKEv2
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If a type 0 Routing Header is present, then from IPv6's perspective, the 
final destination address is the last element in the Routing Header and 
not in the destination address of the IPv6 header (if you are not the 
final recipient).

If I'm selecting an SA to use by matching this packet's values versus my 
selectors, should I use the destination address of the IPv6 header or 
the final element of the Routing Header? For simplicity, I am (a local 
application is) the originator of the packet and not an intermediate node.

Regards,

Chinh
--
http://www.certicom.com


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Hi,

Below  is a excerpt from the X-Auth draft.
In the reply from the client the random number received from the server is
concatenetd to 'aa'  to calculate the hash.
Is this 'aa' a standard?
 or is it a locally generated random number?
Or  it IS received from the server?



RADIUS Chap Challenge
   =====================

   Ipsec Client                                          Ipsec Gateway
   ------------                                          -------------
         <-- REQUEST(TYPE = RADIUS-CHAP, Username = '', Password = '',
                       Challenge = 0x01020304050607080910111213141516)
   REPLY(TYPE = RADIUS-CHAP, Username = 'joe', Password =
   '0xaa11121314151617181920212223242526') -->
                                            <-- SET(XAUTH_STATUS = OK)
   ACK(XAUTH_STATUS) -->


With warm regards,
Sumit

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<div>Hi,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Below&nbsp; is a excerpt from the X-Auth draft.</div>
<div>In the reply from the client the random number received from the server is concatenetd to &#39;aa&#39;&nbsp; to calculate the hash.</div>
<div>Is this &#39;aa&#39; a standard?</div>
<div>&nbsp;or is it a locally generated random number?&nbsp;</div>
<div>Or&nbsp; it IS received from the&nbsp;server?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>RADIUS Chap Challenge<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; =====================<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Ipsec Client&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ipsec Gateway<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; ------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -------------<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;-- REQUEST(TYPE = RADIUS-CHAP, Username = &#39;&#39;, Password = &#39;&#39;,
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Challenge = 0x01020304050607080910111213141516)<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; REPLY(TYPE = RADIUS-CHAP, Username = &#39;joe&#39;, Password =<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &#39;0xaa11121314151617181920212223242526&#39;) --&gt;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;-- SET(XAUTH_STATUS = OK)
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; ACK(XAUTH_STATUS) --&gt;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>With warm regards,</div>
<div>Sumit<br>&nbsp;</div>

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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:07:27 +0530
From: "sumit agarwal" <sumitjec@gmail.com>
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Hi,


In X-Auth what is the use of the attribute XAUTH_DOMAIN.
It is said in the draft that this attribute will have different meaning
depending on the Authentication type.
What meaning does it have in different Authentication type?
Is it send by the server in the X-Auth request?
Is it asked by the server in the X-Auth request?
Or is it snet by the client in the X-Auth reply?

With warm regards,
Sumit

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<div>Hi,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>In X-Auth what is the use of the attribute XAUTH_DOMAIN.</div>
<div>It is said in the draft that this attribute will have different meaning depending on the Authentication type.</div>
<div>What meaning does it have in different Authentication type?</div>
<div>Is it send by the server in the X-Auth request?</div>
<div>Is it asked by the server in the X-Auth request?</div>
<div>Or is it&nbsp;snet by the client in the X-Auth reply?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>With warm regards,</div>
<div>Sumit</div>

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Subject: [IPsec] Acquiring DSCP value(s)
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RFC 4301 makes reference to DSCP and says "the IPsec implementation
MUST permit establishment and maintenance of multiple SAs between a 
given sender and receiver, with the same selectors." DSCP
acts as "classifier".
It also specifies in section 4.4.2.1 a DSCP field in an SAD entry.
This field holds DSCP values allowed for packets using the SAD entry.

I do not understand how the DSCP values are acquired
for the SA entry? Is DSCP values acquired via IKE negotiation 
and/or manual SA configuration?  

Regards,
Joy


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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:41:06 -0400
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To: Joy Latten <latten@austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [IPsec] Acquiring DSCP value(s)
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On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 03:57:37PM -0500, Joy Latten wrote:
> I do not understand how the DSCP values are acquired
> for the SA entry? Is DSCP values acquired via IKE negotiation 
> and/or manual SA configuration?  

The RFC says something about this already:

RFC4301> Distribution of traffic among these parallel SAs to support QoS is
RFC4301> locally determined by the sender and is not negotiated by IKE.

The same code that sets the DSCP on outbound packets can add data to your
outbound-SA-selection routine.  As for the SAs themselves, their DSCP values
are set locally by your implementation, whether it's a manual-SA program or a
key management daemon.

Thanks for the reminder, BTW, that yet-another input to any PF_KEYv3 work is
having a DSCP value on ACQUIRE which is taken from the triggering packet,
which is then in turn fed back into any ADDed or UPDATEd SAs done by a local
Key Management daemon on behalf of that ACQUIRE.

For automated key management, the responder-side of such a negotiation can
get tricky, and perhaps that's what generated your question.  The first time
you get a child-SA request for selectors <laddr, raddr, lport, rport, proto>,
how do you know which DSCP to use on your response traffic?

I honestly haven't worked enough with diffserv & friends to know the answer
to that question, but I think I've reduced the problem scope to
responder-side processing for automated key management (like IKEv2).

Dan


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Subject: Re: [IPsec] Acquiring DSCP value(s)
From: Joy Latten <latten@austin.ibm.com>
To: Dan McDonald <danmcd@sun.com>
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On Fri, 2007-09-14 at 17:41 -0400, Dan McDonald wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 03:57:37PM -0500, Joy Latten wrote:
> > I do not understand how the DSCP values are acquired
> > for the SA entry? Is DSCP values acquired via IKE negotiation 
> > and/or manual SA configuration?  
> 
> The RFC says something about this already:
> 
> RFC4301> Distribution of traffic among these parallel SAs to support QoS is
> RFC4301> locally determined by the sender and is not negotiated by IKE.
> 
Yes, I saw this statement... I had assumed, for example, that if I have
3 SAs with same selectors, but different DSCP values, I thought the
outbound packet would select the SA whose DSCP value matched his own.
I had assumed the DSCP value differentiated the SAs.
I don't know much about DSCP and am reading/scanning its rfc, but I had
also assumed the outbound packet would have its DSCP value by this time.

RFC 4301, section 4.4.2.1 said that the DSCP field in SA was the set of
values allowed for packets carried over this SA. So I had assumed
that determined how the traffic would be distributed over the parallel
SAs. So when I read rfc again and saw the statement you pointed out, I
worried that I'd misinterpreted and needed clarification.

> The same code that sets the DSCP on outbound packets can add data to your
> outbound-SA-selection routine.  As for the SAs themselves, their DSCP values
> are set locally by your implementation, whether it's a manual-SA program or a
> key management daemon.
> 
Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. 
I had read/scanned rfc 4306 but didn't see anything specific. 
It would be an attribute as far as IKE is concerned, right? But what
transform type? Or does it matter?

> Thanks for the reminder, BTW, that yet-another input to any PF_KEYv3 work is
> having a DSCP value on ACQUIRE which is taken from the triggering packet,
> which is then in turn fed back into any ADDed or UPDATEd SAs done by a local
> Key Management daemon on behalf of that ACQUIRE.
> 

I have not thoroughly examined some of the other SA entries, but am
wondering would bypass-dscp, bypass-df, and stateful fragment checking
flag be candidates too?   

> For automated key management, the responder-side of such a negotiation can
> get tricky, and perhaps that's what generated your question.  The first time
> you get a child-SA request for selectors <laddr, raddr, lport, rport, proto>,
> how do you know which DSCP to use on your response traffic?
> 
Yep, I had wondered about that too.  

Thanks!

Regards,
Joy Latten


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From: "Vishwas Manral" <vishwas.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "Chinh Nguyen" <cnguyen@certicom.com>
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Hi Chinh,

I guess you should look at the address in the Destination address of
the IPv6 address and not any address in the IPv6 Routing Header.
However for any firewalling we can check all remaining addresses.

On another note please read the draft
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-manral-ipv6-rh4-00.txt ,
which we are trying to make the new standard Routing Header for all
purposes. The RH0 is on the verge of being removed.

Thanks,
Vishwas


On 9/15/07, Chinh Nguyen <cnguyen@certicom.com> wrote:
> If a type 0 Routing Header is present, then from IPv6's perspective, the
> final destination address is the last element in the Routing Header and
> not in the destination address of the IPv6 header (if you are not the
> final recipient).
>
> If I'm selecting an SA to use by matching this packet's values versus my
> selectors, should I use the destination address of the IPv6 header or
> the final element of the Routing Header? For simplicity, I am (a local
> application is) the originator of the packet and not an intermediate node.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chinh
> --
> http://www.certicom.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPsec mailing list
> IPsec@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
>


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To: "Kum" <ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Myung" <idmr-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
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	"Vincenza Stephens" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Whatcha think
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From Minjareznwjt@sdobosz.pl Sun Sep 16 14:44:52 2007
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Subject: vtgiljmo
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http://crqsf.com/
regards ipsec-archive
It is the size of ones cock which determines success

Declan Minjarez
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>regards ipsec-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>It is the size of ones cock which determines =
success</FONT></DIV>
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Sun Sep 16 16:26:57 2007
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From: Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr>
To: Chinh Nguyen <cnguyen@certicom.com>
Subject: Re: [IPsec] IPv6 Routing Header and IKEv2 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:27:20 EDT.
	<46EAA858.8040701@certicom.com> 
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:24:35 +0200
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 In your previous mail you wrote:

   If I'm selecting an SA to use by matching this packet's values versus my 
   selectors, should I use the destination address of the IPv6 header or 
   the final element of the Routing Header?

   For simplicity, I am (a local application is) the originator of the
   packet and not an intermediate node.
   
=> in fact without this "for simplicity" the answer was simple: just ignore
the internal routing header and use the address currently in the IPv6
header...
 In the originator and final nodes, it is possible to deal with the "real"
address, i.e., the final element of the Routing Header, as it is done
for the type 2 Routing Header. IMHO it depends of the intention when
the packet is built, and as the routing header is more external (then
the IPsec one) and the situation is clearly an end-to-end one, I'd like
to idea to use the "real" address.

Regards

Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr


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From mgschow@technologyshow.com Sun Sep 16 22:03:08 2007
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 17 04:13:10 2007
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Subject: RE: [IPsec] Acquiring DSCP value(s)
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Joy Latten wrote:

> > The same code that sets the DSCP on outbound packets can add data
> > to your outbound-SA-selection routine.  As for the SAs themselves,
> > their DSCP values are set locally by your implementation, whether
> > it's a manual-SA program or a key management daemon.
>=20
> Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me.=20
> I had read/scanned rfc 4306 but didn't see anything specific.=20
> It would be an attribute as far as IKE is concerned, right? But=20
> what transform type? Or does it matter?

It's not an IKE attribute or transform type, because it's not
negotiated in the protocol.=20

In other words: you can use IKE to create multiple IPsec SA pairs,=20
but it's not possible to negotiate which SA pair gets used for=20
which DSCP. That's left as a local matter: your implementation
might send outbound packets with DSCP values A,B,C via one SA,=20
and all other DSCPs via a second one. Or you might create more=20
than two SA pairs. And so on...

Best regards,
Pasi


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From hosmailcommneg@mailcomm.com Mon Sep 17 05:00:09 2007
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>harmony She apple writing hesitated for a moment;=
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 am bird shorn throughout fork I to meet Domenichino?"</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>jelly "Well, I smooth tramped, and tramped, till =
I was nearly mad with pled tramping, and nothing came of pig it. I got do=
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ar Wearily, patiently, he murder went through his shaven part in helpless=
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>record "Never mind the rest; it's support bee alm=
ost too horrible sour to talk about." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>"I think haunt we shall not get screw any hand go=
od out of discussing hope this question further. If you will send the pri=
&nbsp;&nbsp;He stood spicy letter up steel again and spoke to himself, re=
presentative aloud and distinctly: "Not innocent uneven board town much s=
topping for me; I'm off again to-morrow."&nbsp;&nbsp;"Arthur!" ridden the=
 low whisper came talk wed at last; paddle "yes, the water is deep----"</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The smile funny soap grip died outstanding on her=
 face. company The breezy crime knew Gadfly came forward. "I month ventur=
e very respectfully to advise Your Eminence not to attempt rest news it. =
The hum man is perfectly incorri "Forgive me, wildly care Your Eminence! =
lent I thought it was powder one of the priests."
</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From JR@alexander-hruby.de Mon Sep 17 09:29:27 2007
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From: "JR Londono" <JR@alexander-hruby.de>
To: <ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: tlobevir
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:29:26 +0200
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http://cybertwn.com/
Yo yo yo ipsec-archive
6 out of 10 long-term relationship breakups report that sexual problems =
were a major contributory factor!

JR Londono
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2><A=20
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Yo yo yo ipsec-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>6 out of 10 long-term relationship breakups =
report that=20
sexual problems were a major contributory factor!</FONT></DIV>
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 17 16:12:18 2007
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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:02:11 -0500
From: Joy Latten <latten@austin.ibm.com>
Message-Id: <200709172002.l8HK2B8n025492@faith.austin.ibm.com>
To: Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com
Subject: RE: [IPsec] Acquiring DSCP value(s)
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>> > The same code that sets the DSCP on outbound packets can add data
>> > to your outbound-SA-selection routine.  As for the SAs themselves,
>> > their DSCP values are set locally by your implementation, whether
>> > it's a manual-SA program or a key management daemon.
>> 
>> Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. 
>> I had read/scanned rfc 4306 but didn't see anything specific. 
>> It would be an attribute as far as IKE is concerned, right? But 
>> what transform type? Or does it matter?
>
>It's not an IKE attribute or transform type, because it's not
>negotiated in the protocol. 
>
>In other words: you can use IKE to create multiple IPsec SA pairs, 
>but it's not possible to negotiate which SA pair gets used for 
>which DSCP. That's left as a local matter: your implementation
>might send outbound packets with DSCP values A,B,C via one SA, 
>and all other DSCPs via a second one. Or you might create more 
>than two SA pairs. And so on...

Ok, I think I understand.
It is up to my local implementation to determine which
SAs get used with which DSCP values. 
So, when local implementation determines it needs SA for DSCP, 
the DSCP value is carried over in ACQUIRE and gets fed back into
an ADDed or UPDATEd SA by local key mgmt daemon on behalf 
of the ACQUIRE. Correct?

Thanks!!

Regards,
Joy



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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 17 17:31:15 2007
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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:10:15 -0400
From: Dan McDonald <danmcd@sun.com>
To: Joy Latten <latten@austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [IPsec] Acquiring DSCP value(s)
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On Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 03:02:11PM -0500, Joy Latten wrote:
<SNIP!>
> Ok, I think I understand.
> It is up to my local implementation to determine which
> SAs get used with which DSCP values. 

Yes!

> So, when local implementation determines it needs SA for DSCP, 
> the DSCP value is carried over in ACQUIRE and gets fed back into
> an ADDed or UPDATEd SA by local key mgmt daemon on behalf 
> of the ACQUIRE. Correct?

Yes!  That's what I was trying to say before.  Thanks to Pasi for the added
clarification.

Dan


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From JudithOsowski@tintas-lacca.com Tue Sep 18 09:07:35 2007
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http://csspress.com/
Regards ipsec-archive
permanently enlarge your penis

Judith Osowski
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 18 10:53:08 2007
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I've only skimmed through the new draft. Is RH4 simply RH0 in format but 
with some functional restrictions?

Back to issue regarding which destination address to use. Suppose I've 
established a transport mode (node to node) SA with ::1.2.3.4. So my SPD 
might look like this:
1. src = *, dst = ::1.2.3.4, proto=*, port=*, action=ESP/transport
2. src = *, dst = *, proto=*, port=*, action=none/bypass

If I just send an IPv6 packet without RH0 to ::1.2.3.4, then rule 1 applies.
packet = (src = me, dst = ::1.2.3.4) -> ESP

If I send an IPv6 packet with RH0 to ::1.2.3.4:
packet = (src = me, dst = ::1.2.3.1, RH0=::1.2.3.2,::1.2.3.3,::1.2.3.4)

If I use dst then rule 2 applies: no ESP. But since the ultimate 
destination is ::1.2.3.4, shouldn't I use the final element of RH0 as my 
dst (because ESP is the action that I want)?

Regards,

Chinh
--
http://www.certicom.com

Vishwas Manral wrote:
> Hi Chinh,
> 
> I guess you should look at the address in the Destination address of
> the IPv6 address and not any address in the IPv6 Routing Header.
> However for any firewalling we can check all remaining addresses.
> 
> On another note please read the draft
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-manral-ipv6-rh4-00.txt ,
> which we are trying to make the new standard Routing Header for all
> purposes. The RH0 is on the verge of being removed.
> 
> Thanks,
> Vishwas


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Subject: Re: [IPsec] Acquiring DSCP value(s)
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On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 17:10 -0400, Dan McDonald wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 03:02:11PM -0500, Joy Latten wrote:
> <SNIP!>
> > Ok, I think I understand.
> > It is up to my local implementation to determine which
> > SAs get used with which DSCP values. 
> 
> Yes!
> > So, when local implementation determines it needs SA for DSCP, 
> > the DSCP value is carried over in ACQUIRE and gets fed back into
> > an ADDed or UPDATEd SA by local key mgmt daemon on behalf 
> > of the ACQUIRE. Correct?
> 
> Yes!  That's what I was trying to say before.  Thanks to Pasi for the added
> clarification.
> 
:-)
Thanks to you both for clearing that up for me.
Now I can implement. 

regards,
Joy



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From a513b@thomson.co.uk Wed Sep 19 02:36:06 2007
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From crage@bubble.com Wed Sep 19 05:50:08 2007
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From boissonneault@MIXGEST.COM Wed Sep 19 16:01:00 2007
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From hpgyiimmc@hinet.net Wed Sep 19 21:17:20 2007
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shed respectfulness; and went away, grumbling The packet, which put was
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From hcgopera@cookiegarden.com Thu Sep 20 02:56:06 2007
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 20 11:41:34 2007
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mcgrew writes:
> I agree that many people see value in inspection at higher layers.  But
> certainly conventional ACLs using addr/port/protocol are still very common
> and very useful.

You cannot use such simple tests to detect the problems you describe
in the end i.e. subverted node sending invalid data to the correct
host using proper IPsec policy.

> True, but we would not want to require a firewall to generate and maintain
> state based on packets that it receives from the outside, such as ESP-NULL
> packets.  

In normal case they do that for all traffic, not only ESP-NULL
packets. I.e. firewalls usually do keep track of all incoming and
outgoing TCP flows, and keeping track of flows inside ESP-NULL packets
belongs to same category, thus do not add any more work.

The question is whether those very simple filter machines which only
know how to filter packets based on IP and port numbers, need to have
feature where they can look in to the ESP-NULL packets. My guess is
that, such feature is needed and added to more high-end firewalls,
which will be already doing statefull checking of the packets.

> > I mean if someone wants to attack something which is behind firewall
> > that will let both ESP-NULL and encrypted ESP packets through the
> > firewall, why would the attacker use ESP-NULL where the firewall might
> > detect the attacks. He would of couse use the encrypted ESP packets
> > instead as then he is sure the firewall cannot detect the attack.
> 
> Well, an attacker would be motivated to use ESP-NULL in order to attack a
> host that had a policy that only accepted NULL encryption.  In this case,
> the attacker would know that the plaintext was available for inspection, but
> would be hoping that the attack would go unnoticed.

But IPsec policy already mandatory features that require it to check
that packets coming in must match the selectors used when creating the
IPsec SA. I.e. valid implementation of the recipient will throw the
packets away which do not match its security policy, thus those
packets that would be thrown away by simple firewall checking the IP
and port numbers inside the ESP-NULL packets, will be thrown away by
the recipient IPsec stack also as they do not match the policy
specified there (or the policy is incorrect, but that was not the case
here). 

> > So for the filtering to be effective the firewall need to block all
> > ESP packets which are not ESP-NULL destioned to the host he is trying
> > to protect, as the firewall cannot trust the node he is protecting to
> > have secure IPsec policy rejecting invalid ESP encrypted connections.
> 
> One of the main motivations for inspection inside of auth-only ESP, I think,
> is the case in which an ESP sender/receiver has been trusted, but may be
> subverted.  In this case, the host does have the correct policy, but it has
> been the victim of a worm or some other form of malware.   Your analysis (if
> I'm understanding it) disregards this case.

Detecting subverted sender is much easier in the real recipient of the
packet than in the firewall in the middle. The end node has more
information about the situation and can do much stricter checking of
the data than firewalls in the middle, who are missing the big
picture. 
-- 
kivinen@safenet-inc.com


_______________________________________________
IPsec mailing list
IPsec@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec



From Cliel-Brackett@COMMWINE.COM Thu Sep 20 20:02:10 2007
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>He bit his lip and tore outstanding off another t=
o question piece wound of the rug-fringe. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>"He'll never get that," fill Marcone interrupted.=
 slay "Montanelli ornament was draw always against the military commissio=
ns Montanelli chosen sent root looked at him again in the same close, scr=
utinizing way; then plant rose and opened a drawer fu cut "Oh, paddle Fel=
ice; I thought comfort leave you were never coming!"&nbsp;&nbsp;THE next =
five cerebric weeks were muscle appear spent by goat Gemma and the Gadfly=
 in a whirl of excitement and overwork which l</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>lent His first impulse was to ask her sharply wha=
t business she had in his study; floor but, broke doubt remembering that =
h The Gadfly carried lay the letter to Gemma and, while she read it, sat =
back frowning large at torn the floor and strokin "We stride shouldn't di=
rty let him get sky there," said Michele. "We could manage a rescue on th=
e greasy road; but to get hi Montanelli lovely came slowly down broadcast=
 the birth steps, the people crowding about him to kiss his hematal hands=
 Many knelt d&nbsp;&nbsp;
</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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------=_NextPart_D40_0D7C_ADF46ED6.FF37FA85--




From Odanoosxr@pfarre-weinhaus.at Fri Sep 21 11:30:22 2007
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From: "Serban Odano" <Odanoosxr@pfarre-weinhaus.at>
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Regards ipsec-archive
A MASSIVE schlong, is only a few months away

Serban Odano
http://cnjye.com/




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Subject: Get out of the obese crowd
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From dgraves@ottawa.ca Sat Sep 22 07:40:56 2007
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From: <dgraves@ottawa.ca>
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Subject: Tons of free games
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From: "Plavina Laskos" <PlavinaLaskos@talkoholics.com>
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Subject: rezjidei
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:25:41 +0200
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From gpov@bluedolphin.com Sat Sep 22 16:19:56 2007
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From viswanathann@f.lst.se Sat Sep 22 16:26:13 2007
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Subject: Make sure you read this before Monday
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From Provost@sdpx.com Sun Sep 23 10:09:02 2007
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From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Sun Sep 23 10:32:59 2007
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Hi Everybody

I am working with XAUTH draft-06. The draft specifies RADIUS-CHAP as one of
the authentication methods that can be used for XAUTH. I am not sure what is
the ID to be used to hide the password using RADIUS-CHAP in XAUTH. Could
somebody help me with it?
The XAUTH draft uses ID as "aa" in the example given in the Appendix. Is it
some standard value, or just choosen arbitarily? It can very well be a
random value as we anyway affix this ID to the hidden password in our Reply.
The XAUTH draft does not specify anything in particular.
The RADIUS-CHAP draft says that the ID value used to form the reply is
included in the request itself, but this does not seem to be the case while
using RADIUS-CHAP with XAUTH.

Does somebody know, what is the ID value used by different vendors?

Regards
Varun

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<div>Hi Everybody</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I am working with XAUTH draft-06. The draft specifies RADIUS-CHAP as one of the authentication methods that can be used for XAUTH. I am not sure what is the ID to be used to hide the password using RADIUS-CHAP in XAUTH. Could somebody help me with it?
</div>
<div>The XAUTH draft uses ID as &quot;aa&quot; in the example given in the Appendix. Is it some standard value, or just choosen arbitarily? It can very well be a random value as we anyway affix this ID to the hidden password in our Reply. The XAUTH draft does not specify anything in particular.
</div>
<div>The RADIUS-CHAP draft says that the ID value used to form the reply is included in the request itself, but this does not seem to be the case while using RADIUS-CHAP with XAUTH.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Does somebody know, what is the ID value used by different vendors?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Regards</div>
<div>Varun</div>

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From rebeccachallis@wavetool.com Sun Sep 23 11:59:55 2007
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Hi,
This ID can be any value and it need not be just "aa".The IPSec 
client calculates a hash on the concatenated value of "this id 
+  password + the challenge received from edge device".The 16 bit 
hash value is prepended with this one byte ID  while sending the 
response.The edge device has to use this ID value while generating 
hash and then comparing with the received hash value.
-ns murthy

At 07:54 PM 9/23/2007, varun singhal wrote:
>Hi Everybody
>
>I am working with XAUTH draft-06. The draft specifies RADIUS-CHAP as 
>one of the authentication methods that can be used for XAUTH. I am 
>not sure what is the ID to be used to hide the password using 
>RADIUS-CHAP in XAUTH. Could somebody help me with it?
>The XAUTH draft uses ID as "aa" in the example given in the 
>Appendix. Is it some standard value, or just choosen arbitarily? It 
>can very well be a random value as we anyway affix this ID to the 
>hidden password in our Reply. The XAUTH draft does not specify 
>anything in particular.
>The RADIUS-CHAP draft says that the ID value used to form the reply 
>is included in the request itself, but this does not seem to be the 
>case while using RADIUS-CHAP with XAUTH.
>
>Does somebody know, what is the ID value used by different vendors?
>
>Regards
>Varun
>_______________________________________________
>IPsec mailing list
>IPsec@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec


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<html>
<body>
<font size=3>Hi,<br>
This ID can be any value and it need not be just &quot;aa&quot;.The IPSec
client calculates a hash on the concatenated value of &quot;this id
+&nbsp; password + the challenge received from edge device&quot;.The 16
bit hash value is prepended with this one byte ID&nbsp; while sending the
response.The edge device has to use this ID value while generating hash
and then comparing with the received hash value.<br>
-ns murthy<br><br>
At 07:54 PM 9/23/2007, varun singhal wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Hi Everybody<br>
&nbsp;<br>
I am working with XAUTH draft-06. The draft specifies RADIUS-CHAP as one
of the authentication methods that can be used for XAUTH. I am not sure
what is the ID to be used to hide the password using RADIUS-CHAP in
XAUTH. Could somebody help me with it? <br>
The XAUTH draft uses ID as &quot;aa&quot; in the example given in the
Appendix. Is it some standard value, or just choosen arbitarily? It can
very well be a random value as we anyway affix this ID to the hidden
password in our Reply. The XAUTH draft does not specify anything in
particular. <br>
The RADIUS-CHAP draft says that the ID value used to form the reply is
included in the request itself, but this does not seem to be the case
while using RADIUS-CHAP with XAUTH.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Does somebody know, what is the ID value used by different vendors?<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Regards<br>
Varun<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
IPsec mailing list<br>
IPsec@ietf.org<br>
<a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec" eudora="autourl">
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec</a></font></blockquote>

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From julnorskfagskolemig@norskfagskole.no Mon Sep 24 07:16:03 2007
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------=_NextPart_DFB_E89E_F42EBCE8.E89586EE--




From julnordeazyciemig@nordeazycie.pl Mon Sep 24 09:14:35 2007
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Finally the real thing - without trickery! 
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------------542C8B6EC8B679
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<b>Finally the real thing - without trickery!<br> 
<a href="http://www.sinedmo.com/?ruexrmlztl" target="_blank">P.E.P.</a> are hot right this time! 
Well here comes the real thing not a forgery!<br> 
One of the very originals, totally unique 
produce is accessible at any place!<br> 

Draw attention to just what people say about this stuff: 
<p><i>"I was impressed how quickly your stuff had an affect upon my boyfriend, 
he can't stop jabber on how excited he is 
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From ivybarjuch@com-pak.com Mon Sep 24 14:47:58 2007
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From Bree.Patsch@basoreandassociates.com Mon Sep 24 16:56:58 2007
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From pgourmet@cassbeth.com Tue Sep 25 06:30:46 2007
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From abagsb@legacyproperty.com Tue Sep 25 07:35:37 2007
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From saxoasiswateronesof@oasiswaterone.com Tue Sep 25 15:29:50 2007
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From Bryant@radons.ch Tue Sep 25 18:09:43 2007
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From xmexhaustive@sdplotkin.com Wed Sep 26 01:16:43 2007
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for it's existence - it can retain an identity seperate from the
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From hifolukaifet@olukai.com Wed Sep 26 05:14:05 2007
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------------5BD3E542CF8409--




From daisycorp@opposition.org Wed Sep 26 07:58:03 2007
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From: "daisycorp@opposition.org" <daisycorp@opposition.org>
To: <ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	<atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	<secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: This Watch is wondrous
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 05:12:49 -0800
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- Ashley 

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From Huang@banana-splitz.com Wed Sep 26 08:21:15 2007
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From dawouthbor@outh.de Thu Sep 27 08:54:28 2007
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------------0925F8401D3AE9
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------------0925F8401D3AE9--




From Albin946@barnbymoor.net Thu Sep 27 15:35:10 2007
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http://menugist.com/
compliments ipsec-archive
It is the size of ones penis which determines success

Albin naeslund
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Albin naeslund</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Putettiyaigs@jimkeefe.com Fri Sep 28 06:23:58 2007
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Mining Sector --- Delta Mining UPDATE
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From florindamae@my.lovemy.com.ua Fri Sep 28 07:44:27 2007
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:23:04 -0100
From: "Olga" <florindamae@my.lovemy.com.ua>
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Rob saw him looking down the hollow end of the tube and murmured: I wish it
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from the prisoner the silver box of tablets





From kevparadedesignnir@paradedesign.com Fri Sep 28 18:07:03 2007
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------------254096EC8BD3712
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As our customer you can first to anybody try our new site! 
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------------254096EC8BD3712
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
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<strong><font color="#17960A">Notice what said our glad clients:</font></strong><br> 
<strong>From: </strong>Jaymon Taylor<strong><br> 
Subject: </strong>Common Thanx!<br> 
<strong><em>"Thanks much you rendered me holiday cut rates & 
your unique propositions that save me my time and bucks, 
offering only drugs of maximum quality. 
You are in my favorites, 
I shall say about your drugstore without fail to all my fellows!"</em></strong><br><br> 

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</BODY></HTML>
------------254096EC8BD3712--




From ypdated@pdqdesign.com Fri Sep 28 21:26:05 2007
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less air pollution caused by excessive automobile exhaust and
living beings existing mentally only in a digital environment Although some=
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From xposition@willprint.com Fri Sep 28 21:32:18 2007
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exist yet. It has been able to avoid fading out of public view =

with a simple force of a hand or water. Without a doubt, the turn off when =
their is repetition. By the year 2010, the term =


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<P><DIV>be seen in today's computer companies. With the expansion of a</DIV=
></P>
<P><DIV>Are you wanting a bigger p >e n _i s? </DIV></P>
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From Pppp@HiTechSoftware.com Sat Sep 29 03:08:43 2007
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Subject: tnecuaxe
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Hi To ipsec-archive

Emergency report. Check DMXC!
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From support@peterhost.ru Sat Sep 29 09:04:33 2007
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We will never dare to discredit our good name by trying to sell low-quality goods! We aim at establishing good healthy relations with our customers - and our generic brand-name products never let them down!

http://vhamlj.kalesmasht.info/?99332821



From laurelredle@mamba.ru Sat Sep 29 09:16:09 2007
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Our company buy un-collected Court ordered Judgements.


We force t hat fairness takes place.


Kindley Telephone our company here  3 0 3---4 8 0---5 7 1 2



will,

This is great. reflected the youth





From harpennygreenget@pennygreen.com Sat Sep 29 09:28:37 2007
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Subject: Customers alert, new pharma site is realised!
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In the end new web-site is bringing out!!! 
*Men's Health 
*Anti-Depressants 
*Pain relief 
*Womenfolk’s Health 
*Anti-Diabetic medicinal preparations 
*High Blood pressure/Cholesterin 
*Anti-allergic/Asphyxia medicines 
*Anti gastric Acidity
As our client you can first to anyone prove our adorable prices!!  
FDA, CPA Verified, Visa proved.  

Worm it out at once!!! 
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<b><font color="#FF0000"><em>In the end new web-site is bringing out!!!</em></font><br> 
*Men's Health<br> 
*Anti-Depressants<br> 
*Pain relief<br> 
*Womenfolk’s Health<br> 
*Anti-Diabetic medicinal preparations<br> 
*High Blood pressure/Cholesterin<br> 
*Anti-allergic/Asphyxia medicines<br> 
*Anti gastric Acidity
<br>
<font color="#09B00D">As our client you can first to anyone prove our adorable prices!! </font><br> 
<font color="#FF0000"><em>FDA, CPA Verified, Visa proved.</em></font><br> <br> 

<a href="http://wrotefair.cn/" target="_blank">Worm it out at once!!!</a></b><br> 
<font color="#D9EDFF">http://wrotefair.cn/</font>

</BODY></HTML>
------------F215A86ED3B48D3--




From harpenamanmusicget@penamanmusic.com Sat Sep 29 11:33:50 2007
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Our main purpose is to assure PC and Macintosh lawful software and computer solutions of low cost for anyone's budget. 
Whether you're a corporate client, a small business owner, 
or go shopping for your home personal computer, we guess that we will help you. 

SEE WHAT WE GOT TO OFFER 
http://oemwebsoft.com/

Most popular products in sight are:
*Adobe InDesign CS3: Retail price for now - $699.00; Our only - $79.95 
*Microsoft Windows 2003 Enterprise Server: Retail price for this day - $800.00; Our just - $69.95 
*Macromedia Dreamweaver 8: Retail price this time - $399.99; Our for today only - $49.95 
*Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended: Retail price for now - $999.00; Our only - $89.95 
*Microsoft Exchange Server 2003 Enterprise: Retail price this day - $5625.00; Our only - $59.95 
*Macromedia Fontographer 4: Retail price for today - $105.95; Our for now just - $19.95 
*Adobe Atmosphere 1.0: Retail price today - $399.00; Our this day - $29.95 
*Symantec Ghost Solution Suite 2.0: Retail price this day - $39.20; Our only - $19.95 

COME TO US! 
http://oemwebsoft.com/
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
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<BODY>

<strong>Our main purpose is to assure PC and Macintosh lawful software and computer solutions of low cost for anyone's budget.<br> 
Whether you're a corporate client, a small business owner,<br> 
or go shopping for your home personal computer, we guess that we will help you.<br> 

<em><a href="http://oemwebsoft.com/" target="_blank">SEE WHAT WE GOT TO OFFER</a></em></strong><br> 
<font color="#D9EDFF">http://oemwebsoft.com/</font><br>

<strong>Most popular products in sight are:</strong><br>
*<strong>Adobe InDesign CS3:</strong> <em>Retail price for now - $699.00</em>; <strong>Our only - <font color="red"><em>$79.95</em></font></strong><br> 
*<strong>Microsoft Windows 2003 Enterprise Server:</strong> <em>Retail price for this day - $800.00</em>; <strong>Our just - <font color="red"><em>$69.95</em></font></strong><br> 
*<strong>Macromedia Dreamweaver 8:</strong> <em>Retail price this time - $399.99</em>; <strong>Our for today only - <font color="red"><em>$49.95</em></font></strong><br> 
*<strong>Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended:</strong> <em>Retail price for now - $999.00</em>; <strong>Our only - <font color="red"><em>$89.95</em></font></strong><br> 
*<strong>Microsoft Exchange Server 2003 Enterprise:</strong> <em>Retail price this day - $5625.00</em>; <strong>Our only - <font color="red"><em>$59.95</em></font></strong><br> 
*<strong>Macromedia Fontographer 4:</strong> <em>Retail price for today - $105.95</em>; <strong>Our for now just - <font color="red"><em>$19.95</em></font></strong><br> 
*<strong>Adobe Atmosphere 1.0:</strong> <em>Retail price today - $399.00</em>; <strong>Our this day - <font color="red"><em>$29.95</em></font></strong><br> 
*<strong>Symantec Ghost Solution Suite 2.0:</strong> <em>Retail price this day - $39.20</em>; <strong>Our only - <font color="red"><em>$19.95</em></font></strong><br> 

<strong><em><a href="http://oemwebsoft.com/" target="_blank">COME TO US!</a></em></strong><br> 
<font color="#D9EDFF">http://oemwebsoft.com/</font>

</BODY></HTML>
------------805136E829EFDA--




From Gunnelsfun@acemobility.co.uk Sat Sep 29 21:24:02 2007
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Hello ipsec-archive

Urgent alert.
Look at DM XC!
5-day price: ~$0.50

Get it at monday
gewalt
gilbert0
}ggitruh
germansp




From naindivi@data.bg Sun Sep 30 00:59:37 2007
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Investors and Consumer are drooling Over FRLE, As Porsche Designed Yacht
hits Market

Fearless International
FRLE
Price: $0.32

The Luxury market is all a buzz with the "Fearless 28", a captain's
dream yacht from Porsche Design Studios. Orders are already pouring in
and have nearly maxed there production line. The coverage on this hot
new company and its new line of luxury yachts has been nothing less than
a frenzy. Go to their dot com website at fearlessyachts, read all the
articles, and don't forget to watch the video. Monday morning this
should be the first buy you make. It will be one of the biggest movers
of the year.




From fojphalongeorgedoh@phalongeorge.com Sun Sep 30 01:28:37 2007
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From:	"Shelly Drummond" <fojphalongeorgedoh@phalongeorge.com>
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Subject: Our present for your health
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As our client you may examine first of all our new web page! 
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From: Neshanda Jones 
Subject: Simply thank you! 
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<strong>
As our client you may examine first of all our new web page!<br> 
Only original high-grade cures at a price you can afford!!<br> 
<font color="#FF0000">20%</font> warranted reduction is waiting for you!!! </strong><br> 
<strong><font color="#17960A">Note what said our glad customers:</font></strong><br> 
<strong>From: </strong>Neshanda Jones<strong><br> 
Subject: </strong>Simply thank you!<br> 
<strong><em>"Thank you so much for festive abatements & 
your unique propositions that save me greens and time, 
proposing only pharmaceutics of highest quality. 
You are among my minions, 
I shall tell about your shop without fail all my fellows!"</em></strong><br><br> 

<em><strong><a href="http://noonyour.cn/" target="_blank">Read some more gratitudes at our website!</a></strong></em><br> 
<font color="#D9EDFF">http://noonyour.cn/</font>

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From vidpirtekfeg@pirtek.nl Sun Sep 30 04:07:01 2007
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From:	"Karl Staton" <vidpirtekfeg@pirtek.nl>
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Looking for the best pricesin discount software? 
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And the best thing for you is, all softs are of utmost low prices. 
Check it out by yourself and take the softwares for cheapest costs. 
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<td align=center bgcolor="#CEF3FF"><b><font color="#FA3D05">Looking for the best pricesin discount software?</font></b></td></tr> 
<tr><td align=center bgcolor="#E9E9E9"><b>This time you'll catch the chance to use the software environment you dreamt of long since.<br> 
And the best thing for you is, all softs are of utmost low prices.<br> 
<a href="http://bestwarezone.com/" target="_blank"><em>Check it out by yourself and take the softwares for cheapest costs.</em></a></b></td></tr></table> 
<font color="#D9EDFF">http://bestwarezone.com/</font>

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From Helenor629@mbawhm.com Sun Sep 30 10:50:39 2007
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From: "Helenor mcgowan" <Helenor629@mbawhm.com>
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Subject: nenovret
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Good day ipsec-archive

Alert to all investors!
Look at D-M-X-C!
5-day price: ~$0.50

Check it at 31.09.2007
nerosnez
nenjirol
nepmulk
nereppan
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Good day ipsec-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Alert to all investors!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Look at D-M-X-C!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>5-day price: ~$0.50</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Check it at 31.09.2007</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>nerosnez</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>nenjirol</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>nepmulk</FONT></DIV>
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From bhupesh.solanki@cumberlandheights.org Sun Sep 30 11:33:10 2007
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From: <bhupesh.solanki@cumberlandheights.org>
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Subject: New yacht hits 81 MPH
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:32:53 +0200
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Production Facility For Porsche Designed Yacht At Near Capacity

Fearless International
FRLE
Current: $0.32

The "Fearless 28", from Porsche design Studios was released at the
Worlds Largest Boat Show In Miami. Orders are already pouring in and
have nearly maxed there production line. Media from television,
magazine, and websites, have been raving about the new Yachts and the
investment potential. Go to fearlessyachts dot com to watch the video
and see all the media coverage. It will blow you away. After you have
check this out we know you will agree it will be one of the hottest
stocks this year. Grab it Monday.




From vidpitstopfeg@pitstop.com Sun Sep 30 16:54:56 2007
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From:	"Wilfred Tucker" <vidpitstopfeg@pitstop.com>
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Subject: Can you imagine that you are healthy?
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</b>

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