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No problem. http://contriculation.com/ Michele Moyer From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 03 04:04:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Icz8o-0004tk-7F; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 03:59:34 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Icz8n-0004sR-I2 for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 03:59:33 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Icz8n-0003ng-0s for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 03:59:33 -0400 Received: from ip-66-80-10-146.dsl.sca.megapath.net ([66.80.10.146] helo=barracuda.intoto.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Icz8R-0007kg-94 for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 03:59:11 -0400 Received: from angel.intoto.com (smtp.intoto.com [10.1.5.29]) by barracuda.intoto.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 0D097B27F; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 00:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brahma.hyd.intoto.com (intotoind.com [172.16.1.10]) by angel.intoto.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9384o3J030021; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 01:04:51 -0700 Received: from nsm.intoto.com (3mc100.hyd.intoto.com [172.16.3.100]) by brahma.hyd.intoto.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l937x33g015781; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 13:29:07 +0530 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20071003131517.043854e8@intoto.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:29:49 +0530 To: Joy Latten , ipsec@ietf.org From: ns srinivasa murthy Subject: Re: [IPsec] rfc 4301 and multiple SAs In-Reply-To: <1191347400.2477.91.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com> References: <1191347400.2477.91.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.62 on 172.16.1.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1a1bf7677bfe77d8af1ebe0e91045c5b Cc: X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0402351002==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org --===============0402351002== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_14327156==.ALT" --=====================_14327156==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You are right.We at Intoto allow creation of multiple SAs with the same selectors(even if DSCP is not selected). But the remote implementation (that does route traffic over several SAs) shall not check DSCP value in the IP Header to find out whether the packet is received on appropritae SA or not.It should allow traffic on any one of the SA's created by the same selectors.It shall be selective of SA's only for outbound traffic. We at Intoto support this also. -ns murthy Intoto At 11:19 PM 10/2/2007, Joy Latten wrote: >I would just like some verification about multiple SAs >with same selector values requirement. > >It appears establishment and maintenance of multiple SAs >with the same selector values is a MUST in order >to support QoS/DSCP. > >If an implementation decides to route all QoS traffic >over the same SA pair, I assumed it would not eliminate >the need to support multiple SAs with same selectors. >Because, local implementation must be able to respond to and >establish SAs with a remote who does want multiple SAs >with same selectors because remote implementation does >route traffic over several SAs. Right? > >Regards, >Joy Latten > > >_______________________________________________ >IPsec mailing list >IPsec@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec ******************************************************************************** This email message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Thank you. Intoto Inc. --=====================_14327156==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
You are right.We at Intoto allow creation of
multiple SAs with the same selectors(even if DSCP is not selected).

But the remote implementation (that does route traffic over several SAs)
shall not check DSCP value in the IP Header to find out whether the packet is received on appropritae SA or not.It should allow traffic on any one of the SA's created by the same selectors.It shall be selective of SA's only for outbound traffic.
We at Intoto support this also.

-ns murthy
Intoto

At 11:19 PM 10/2/2007, Joy Latten wrote:

I would just like some verification about multiple SAs
with same selector values requirement.

It appears establishment and maintenance of multiple SAs
with the same selector values is a MUST in order
to support QoS/DSCP.

If an implementation decides to route all QoS traffic
over the same SA pair, I assumed it would not eliminate
the need to support multiple SAs with same selectors.
Because, local implementation must be able to respond to and
establish SAs with a remote who does want multiple SAs
with same selectors because remote implementation does
route traffic over several SAs. Right?

Regards,
Joy Latten

_______________________________________________
IPsec mailing list
IPsec@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec

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No problem. http://contriculation.com/ Susana Mcdonough From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 03 10:58:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id5Zb-00076r-Ch; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:51:39 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Id5ZZ-00074v-7u for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:51:37 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id5ZY-0006yn-UZ for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:51:36 -0400 Received: from mx11.bbn.com ([128.33.0.80]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id5ZN-0007s9-Qp for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:51:31 -0400 Received: from dhcp89-089-116.bbn.com ([128.89.89.116]) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Id5Z3-00076M-42; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:51:05 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1191347400.2477.91.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com> References: <1191347400.2477.91.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:45:20 -0400 To: Joy Latten From: Karen Seo Subject: Re: [IPsec] rfc 4301 and multiple SAs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hello, Yes, it's a MUST for the IPsec implementation to support multiple SAs with the same selectors for support of QoS. See sections 4.1 (pages 13 and 14) and 7.2 (page 68) for further info. Karen >I would just like some verification about multiple SAs >with same selector values requirement. > >It appears establishment and maintenance of multiple SAs >with the same selector values is a MUST in order >to support QoS/DSCP. > >If an implementation decides to route all QoS traffic >over the same SA pair, I assumed it would not eliminate >the need to support multiple SAs with same selectors. >Because, local implementation must be able to respond to and >establish SAs with a remote who does want multiple SAs >with same selectors because remote implementation does >route traffic over several SAs. 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=0A=0A

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=0A=0A ----boundary_102495_62a6327d-8a3d-4fb4-946f-679d58b53ea8-- --===============2140125696== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============2140125696==-- From suratdav@bonhote.ch Sun Oct 07 06:21:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeTGo-0004qa-2U for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2007 06:21:58 -0400 Received: from [201.166.36.51] (helo=afotp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeTGk-00038D-I7 for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2007 06:21:56 -0400 Received: (qmail 29426 invoked from network); Sun, 7 Oct 2007 03:21:38 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO qzhsa) (217.227.113.80) by afotp with SMTP; Sun, 7 Oct 2007 03:21:38 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c808cb$d8895000$5071e3d9@qzhsa> From: To: Subject: Check this out Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 03:21:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Big Day For FRLE FEARLESS INTL INC (F r L E) $0.21 This one is moving fast as the word is out on this hot new company. Now this is getting hot, and the coming week will be incredible. We're going places with FRLE on Monday. From violeta-mortola@asian-fucking.com Mon Oct 08 03:24:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iemz4-0006Yt-Us for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:24:58 -0400 Received: from marelli-bck1.rgzgroup.com ([85.36.249.26]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iemyo-0004Qx-Oe for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:24:44 -0400 Received: from RIC0300283 ([183.189.21.67] helo=RIC0300283) by marelli-bck1.rgzgroup.com ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1wCNxt-000XBE-iD for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:25:17 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01c8097c$4bbbc250$1af92455@RIC0300283> From: "violeta mortola" To: Subject: iarelag' Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:24:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8098D.0F449250" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8098D.0F449250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.porterro.com/ Hi there ipsec-archive What do women really want? a small 5 incher or a big 8 incher? 8 inch of = course violeta mortola ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8098D.0F449250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 18:01:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4131.1600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4131.1600 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 No membership, no tricks, no gimmicks, just 1000 free games. http://168.226.20.112/ From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 09 15:38:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfKpK-0004PK-Ih; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:33:10 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfKpJ-0004OQ-5k for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:33:09 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfKpI-0004Hv-Pa for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:33:08 -0400 Received: from e4.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.144]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfKpG-00045y-Fv for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:33:06 -0400 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e4.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l99JX6cF012666 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 15:33:06 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.5) with ESMTP id l99JX6eg091552 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 15:33:06 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l99JWtIv019591 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 15:32:55 -0400 Received: from austin.ibm.com (netmail2.austin.ibm.com [9.41.248.176]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l99JWtLT019029 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 15:32:55 -0400 Received: from faith.austin.ibm.com (faith.austin.ibm.com [9.53.40.35]) by austin.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l99JWjek032582 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:32:45 -0500 Received: from faith.austin.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by faith.austin.ibm.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l99JScjg009856 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:28:38 -0500 Received: (from jml@localhost) by faith.austin.ibm.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id l99JScxx009855 for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:28:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: faith.austin.ibm.com: jml set sender to latten@austin.ibm.com using -f From: Joy Latten To: ipsec@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:28:37 -0500 Message-Id: <1191958117.2477.212.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 (2.2.3-2.fc4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Subject: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org RFC 4301 specifies a Peer Authentication Database. In section 4.4.3.4, it even talks about how IKE is to use the PAD. I see no reference to PAD in RFC 4306 - IKEv2. Is PAD mandatory for 4301 and 4306 conformance? Joy _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 09 16:22:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfLXj-0002Wo-Gh; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:19:03 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfLXi-0002Wd-5o for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:19:02 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfLXh-0002WV-Sc for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:19:01 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfLXb-0002LY-3Y for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:19:01 -0400 Received: from dm-east-01.east.sun.com ([129.148.9.192]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l99KIlww024602 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 20:18:47 GMT Received: from kebe.east.sun.com (kebe.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.48]) by dm-east-01.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id l99KIl23035178 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 16:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kebe.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kebe.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l99K3j8d006257; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 16:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from danmcd@localhost) by kebe.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l99K3QsY006256; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 16:03:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kebe.east.sun.com: danmcd set sender to danmcd@sun.com using -f Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 16:03:26 -0400 From: Dan McDonald To: Joy Latten Subject: Re: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 Message-ID: <20071009200326.GE6141@kebe.East.Sun.COM> References: <1191958117.2477.212.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1191958117.2477.212.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Solaris Networking & Security X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 02:28:37PM -0500, Joy Latten wrote: > RFC 4301 specifies a Peer Authentication Database. s/Authentication/Authorization/ > In section 4.4.3.4, it even talks about how IKE > is to use the PAD. > > I see no reference to PAD in RFC 4306 - IKEv2. > > Is PAD mandatory for 4301 and 4306 conformance? >From my readings, I get the impression that PAD is an IPsec policy (SPD) --> Key Management Policy (configuration + basic acceptance tests) mapping. For example, if you look in ike.config(4) on Solaris or OpenSolaris with the OpenSolaris binary extras, that's a sort of PAD (though not as well mapped as 4301 says). Our ike.config answers questions like, "Which type of IKE authentication should I use or accept?" and, "Do I accept any IKE from addresses in prefix /N?" A more 4301-like PAD would also answer questions like, "Is this IKE request from x.y.z.N authenticated with a certificate that's qualified to speak for x.y.z.N?" Dan _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 09 17:52:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfMvu-0003q8-KI; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:48:06 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfHoV-0007m4-85 for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:20:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfHoU-0007lw-Ur for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:20:06 -0400 Received: from kuber.nabble.com ([216.139.236.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfHoO-0003zq-QG for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:20:06 -0400 Received: from isper.nabble.com ([192.168.236.156]) by kuber.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IfHoE-0000MU-Fo for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 09:19:50 -0700 Message-ID: <13118971.post@talk.nabble.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:19:50 -0700 (PDT) From: whatdapech To: ipsec@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Nabble-From: whatdapech@yahoo.com X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:48:04 -0400 Subject: [IPsec] IPSec Tunnel limitations X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0148588739==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org --===============0148588739== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10023_15043970.1191946790484" ------=_Part_10023_15043970.1191946790484 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm just wondering if there is a limit as to how many users can use an IPSec tunnel simultaneously; Two offices are connected via T1 on a router to router setup. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/IPSec-Tunnel-limitations-tf4595275.html#a13118971 Sent from the IETF - Ipsec mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ------=_Part_10023_15043970.1191946790484 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm just wondering if there is a limit as to how many users can use an IPSec tunnel simultaneously; Two offices are connected via T1 on a router to router setup.

View this message in context: IPSec Tunnel limitations
Sent from the IETF - Ipsec mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------=_Part_10023_15043970.1191946790484-- --===============0148588739== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0148588739==-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 09 17:52:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfMvt-0003p8-Rb; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:48:05 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfF6w-0003y2-3q for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 09:26:58 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfF6v-0003xt-PP for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 09:26:57 -0400 Received: from kuber.nabble.com ([216.139.236.158]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfF6v-0002X8-Ex for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 09:26:57 -0400 Received: from isper.nabble.com ([192.168.236.156]) by kuber.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IfF6v-00030k-1X for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 06:26:57 -0700 Message-ID: <13115564.post@talk.nabble.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 06:26:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Tjeu To: ipsec@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Nabble-From: david_gutenberrger@hotmail.com X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:48:04 -0400 Subject: [IPsec] IPSec, ESP and AH authentication X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Dear All, As you might know, IPSec ESP authentication does not authenticate the destination and source addresses of the IP header, whereas the IPSec AH authentication does(i.e. calculatec MAC over them). However, both claim that they offer data origin authentication. It is not clear for me how the ESP authentication offers data origin authentication, as the MAC is not computed on the source and dest addresses. Therefore the attacker could easily modify them. Am I missing something ? I would be thankful if anyone could provide links where I could read regarding this subject, in more details. I looked through some RFC's but they dont seem to help. Thanks, Tjeu -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/IPSec%2C-ESP-and-AH-authentication-tf4594212.html#a13115564 Sent from the IETF - Ipsec mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec xim 4.43) id 1IfF6v-0002X8-Ex for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 09:26:57 -0400 Received: from isper.nabble.com ([192.168.236.156]) by kuber.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IfF6v-00030k-1X for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 06:26:57 -0700 Message-ID: <13115564.post@talk.nabble.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 06:26:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Tjeu To: ipsec@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Nabble-From: david_gutenberrger@hotmail.com X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:48:04 -0400 Subject: [IPsec] IPSec, ESP and AH authentication X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Dear All, As you might know, IPSec ESP authentication does not authenticate the destination and source addresses of the IP header, whereas the IPSec AH authentication does(i.e. calculatec MAC over them). However, both claim that they offer data origin authentication. It is not clear for me how the ESP authentication offers data origin authentication, as the MAC is not computed on the source and dest addresses. Therefore the attacker could easily modify them. Am I missing something ? I would be thankful if anyone could provide links where I could read regarding this subject, in more details. I looked through some RFC's but they dont seem to help. Thanks, Tjeu -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/IPSec%2C-ESP-and-AH-authentication-tf4594212.html#a13115564 Sent from the IETF - Ipsec mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 09 18:16:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfNLR-0001OX-Oy; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:14:29 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfNLR-0001ON-8X for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:14:29 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfNLQ-0001OF-Uc for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:14:28 -0400 Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfNLQ-0001GA-Gm for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:14:28 -0400 Received: from dm-east-02.east.sun.com ([129.148.13.5]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l99MERjS023100 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:14:27 GMT Received: from everywhere.east.sun.com (everywhere.East.Sun.COM [129.148.19.2]) by dm-east-02.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id l99MERsr046589 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 18:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from everywhere.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by everywhere.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l99M6t8L109074; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 18:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from danmcd@localhost) by everywhere.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l99M6tHP109073; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 18:06:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: everywhere.east.sun.com: danmcd set sender to danmcd@sun.com using -f Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 18:06:55 -0400 From: Dan McDonald To: whatdapech Subject: Re: [IPsec] IPSec Tunnel limitations Message-ID: <20071009220655.GB108970@sun.com> References: <13118971.post@talk.nabble.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <13118971.post@talk.nabble.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Solaris Networking & Security X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 09:19:50AM -0700, whatdapech wrote: > > Hi, I'm just wondering if there is a limit as to how many users can use an > IPSec tunnel simultaneously; Two offices are connected via T1 on a router to > router setup. As many as your link can hold, or if you have really SLOW boxes doing IPsec, to the capacity of your encryptors. If you're talking T1 speeds, any mid-90s or later machine can keep AES + SHA-1 going quite easily. Dan _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 09 19:49:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfOjw-0001Zt-8k; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:43:52 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfOju-0001Zo-Vx for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:43:50 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfOju-0001S5-LQ for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:43:50 -0400 Received: from machshav.com ([198.180.150.44]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfOjp-0003Y3-C1 for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:43:45 -0400 Received: by machshav.com (Postfix, from userid 512) id 0B4995B4; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:43:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from berkshire.machshav.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by machshav.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE18F15D; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:43:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from berkshire.machshav.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by berkshire.machshav.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A136C766013; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:43:45 +0000 From: "Steven M. Bellovin" To: Tjeu Subject: Re: [IPsec] IPSec, ESP and AH authentication Message-ID: <20071009234345.044f62d9@berkshire.machshav.com> In-Reply-To: <13115564.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <13115564.post@talk.nabble.com> Organization: Columbia University X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.1 (GTK+ 2.10.14; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 06:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Tjeu wrote: > > Dear All, > > As you might know, IPSec ESP authentication does not authenticate the > destination and source > addresses of the IP header, whereas the IPSec AH authentication > does(i.e. calculatec MAC over them). However, both claim that they > offer data origin authentication. It is not clear for me how the ESP > authentication offers data origin authentication, as the MAC is not > computed on the source and dest addresses. Therefore the attacker > could easily modify them. Am I missing something ? I would be > thankful if anyone could provide links where I could read regarding > this subject, in more details. I looked through some RFC's but they > dont seem to help. > Put the IP addresses in the SPD, and derive that in turn from the authenticated identity. If the attacker modifies them, the packet will be dropped because it won't match the SPD. --Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From Eplettjygo@reotrading.com Tue Oct 09 21:16:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfQC0-0001az-W4 for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 21:16:56 -0400 Received: from cm194172.red83-165.mundo-r.com ([83.165.194.172]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfQBz-0003Lq-IR for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 21:16:56 -0400 Received: from pc2 ([113.199.144.172] helo=pc2) by cm194172.red83-165.mundo-r.com ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1UiQmC-000PGF-GI for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:19:29 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01c80adb$85172020$acc2a553@pc2> From: "Pauli Eplett" To: Subject: skadok Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:18:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C80AEC.489FF020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C80AEC.489FF020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.rezaq.com/ Yo man ipsec-archive There are many men out there just like you, who want to improve their = penis size Pauli Eplett ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C80AEC.489FF020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C80AEC.489FF020-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 09 22:12:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfQzS-0000oy-97; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:08:02 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfQzR-0000oh-Gs for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:08:01 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfQzR-0000oZ-6Q for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:08:01 -0400 Received: from kuber.nabble.com ([216.139.236.158]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfQzQ-0000bG-Rh for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:08:01 -0400 Received: from isper.nabble.com ([192.168.236.156]) by kuber.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IfQzQ-0000CZ-82 for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:08:00 -0700 Message-ID: <13128189.post@talk.nabble.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:08:00 -0700 (PDT) From: whatdapech To: ipsec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ipsec] IPSec Tunnel limitations In-Reply-To: <20071009220655.GB108970@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Nabble-From: whatdapech@yahoo.com References: <13118971.post@talk.nabble.com> <20071009220655.GB108970@sun.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hi Dan, Thanks for that info... I have 2 Cisco 2811 routers and I'm worried that if i have 96 users accessing the tunnel at the same time could cause the tunnel to drop due to the multiple encryptions going on the tunnel. My Manager wants me to get a solid document saying that there is such limitation so can you point me to a certain link in case you've read this somewhere? I have been researching for it for quite some time now. Not that i don't believe you... (",) thanks. Dan McDonald-2 wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 09:19:50AM -0700, whatdapech wrote: >> >> Hi, I'm just wondering if there is a limit as to how many users can use >> an >> IPSec tunnel simultaneously; Two offices are connected via T1 on a router >> to >> router setup. > > As many as your link can hold, or if you have really SLOW boxes doing > IPsec, > to the capacity of your encryptors. > > If you're talking T1 speeds, any mid-90s or later machine can keep AES + > SHA-1 going quite easily. > > Dan > > > _______________________________________________ > IPsec mailing list > IPsec@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/IPSec-Tunnel-limitations-tf4595275.html#a13128189 Sent from the IETF - Ipsec mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 10 02:32:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfUyt-0003iW-K1; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:23:43 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfUys-0003iL-Sk for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:23:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfUys-0003VF-Fc for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:23:42 -0400 Received: from ip-66-80-10-146.dsl.sca.megapath.net ([66.80.10.146] helo=barracuda.intoto.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfUyh-0004Bj-E0 for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:23:37 -0400 Received: from angel.intoto.com (smtp.intoto.com [10.1.5.29]) by barracuda.intoto.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 4ED6144357; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brahma.hyd.intoto.com (intotoind.com [172.16.1.10]) by angel.intoto.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9A6T5lv017996; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:29:06 -0700 Received: from nsm.intoto.com (3mc100.hyd.intoto.com [172.16.3.100]) by brahma.hyd.intoto.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9A6MF8I022831; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:52:22 +0530 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20071010104747.04eb6d90@intoto.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:58:31 +0530 To: Dan McDonald , Joy Latten From: ns srinivasa murthy Subject: Re: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 In-Reply-To: <20071009200326.GE6141@kebe.East.Sun.COM> References: <1191958117.2477.212.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com> <20071009200326.GE6141@kebe.East.Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.62 on 172.16.1.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 932cba6e0228cc603da43d861a7e09d8 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1222613123==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org --===============1222613123== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_8021703==.ALT" --=====================_8021703==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed PAD is not mandatory as per the following paragraph from RFC4301 "4.4. Major IPsec Databases Many of the details associated with processing IP traffic in an IPsec implementation are largely a local matter, not subject to standardization. However, some external aspects of the processing must be standardized to ensure interoperability and to provide a minimum management capability that is essential for productive use of IPsec. This section describes a general model for processing IP traffic relative to IPsec functionality, in support of these interoperability and functionality goals. The model described below is nominal; implementations need not match details of this model as presented, but the external behavior of implementations MUST correspond to the externally observable characteristics of this model in order to be compliant. -nsmurthy At 01:33 AM 10/10/2007, Dan McDonald wrote: >On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 02:28:37PM -0500, Joy Latten wrote: > > RFC 4301 specifies a Peer Authentication Database. > >s/Authentication/Authorization/ > > > In section 4.4.3.4, it even talks about how IKE > > is to use the PAD. > > > > I see no reference to PAD in RFC 4306 - IKEv2. > > > > Is PAD mandatory for 4301 and 4306 conformance? > > >From my readings, I get the impression that PAD is an IPsec policy (SPD) --> >Key Management Policy (configuration + basic acceptance tests) mapping. For >example, if you look in ike.config(4) on Solaris or OpenSolaris with the >OpenSolaris binary extras, that's a sort of PAD (though not as well mapped as >4301 says). Our ike.config answers questions like, "Which type of IKE >authentication should I use or accept?" and, "Do I accept any IKE from >addresses in prefix /N?" A more 4301-like PAD would also answer >questions like, "Is this IKE request from x.y.z.N authenticated with a >certificate that's qualified to speak for x.y.z.N?" > >Dan > > >_______________________________________________ >IPsec mailing list >IPsec@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec ******************************************************************************** This email message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Thank you. Intoto Inc. --=====================_8021703==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
PAD is not mandatory as per the following paragraph from RFC4301

"4.4.  Major IPsec Databases

Many of the details associated with processing IP traffic in an IPsec
   implementation are largely a local matter, not subject to
   standardization.  However, some external aspects of the
processing
   must be standardized to ensure interoperability and to
provide a
   minimum management capability that is essential for
productive use of
   IPsec.  This section describes a general model for
processing IP
   traffic relative to IPsec functionality, in support of
these
   interoperability and functionality goals.  The model
described below
   is nominal; implementations need not match details of this
model as
   presented, but the external behavior of implementations
MUST
   correspond to the externally observable characteristics of
this model
   in order to be compliant.

-nsmurthy

At 01:33 AM 10/10/2007, Dan McDonald wrote:

On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 02:28:37PM -0500, Joy Latten wrote:
> RFC 4301 specifies a Peer Authentication Database.

s/Authentication/Authorization/

> In section 4.4.3.4, it even talks about how IKE
> is to use the PAD.
>
> I see no reference to PAD in RFC 4306 - IKEv2.
>
> Is PAD mandatory for 4301 and 4306 conformance?

>From my readings, I get the impression that PAD is an IPsec policy (SPD) -->
Key Management Policy (configuration + basic acceptance tests) mapping. For
example, if you look in ike.config(4) on Solaris or OpenSolaris with the
OpenSolaris binary extras, that's a sort of PAD (though not as well mapped as
4301 says). Our ike.config answers questions like, "Which type of IKE
authentication should I use or accept?" and, "Do I accept any IKE from
addresses in prefix <foo>/N?" A more 4301-like PAD would also answer
questions like, "Is this IKE request from x.y.z.N authenticated with a
certificate that's qualified to speak for x.y.z.N?"

Dan

_______________________________________________
IPsec mailing list
IPsec@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec

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http://qbeqlir.luxuryrealsoft.com/ ------------8BDA3EC8BD3ECFFF-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 10 02:55:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfVQA-0008SN-OE; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:51:54 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfVQ9-0008KE-1M for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:51:53 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfVQ4-0008IK-PC for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:51:48 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.171] helo=mgw-ext12.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfVPy-0004pt-Di for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:51:48 -0400 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-ext12.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l9A6pQos027920 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:51:30 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:51:21 +0300 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:51:21 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:51:23 +0300 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Last call comments for draft-lepinski-dh-groups-01 Thread-Index: AcgKX7Axn+dHrGDJTk6vVKK6mKQRUwAqi9xA From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2007 06:51:21.0755 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7A66EB0:01C80B09] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Subject: [IPsec] FW: Last call comments for draft-lepinski-dh-groups-01 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org FYI (for folks who're not on the ietf main list) > -----Original Message----- > From: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki)=20 > Sent: 09 October, 2007 13:32 > To: ietf@ietf.org > Cc: 'mlepinski@bbn.com'; Stephen Kent > Subject: Last call comments for draft-lepinski-dh-groups-01 >=20 >=20 > Two comments about the IPsec-related parts: >=20 > 1) Section 1 says: >=20 > "Sixteen additional groups subsequently have been defined and > assigned values by IANA for use with IKE (v1 and v2). All of > these additional groups are optional in the IKE context. Of > the twenty-one groups defined so far, eight are MODP groups > (exponentiation groups modulo a prime), ten are EC2N groups > (elliptic curve groups over GF[2^N]) and three are ECP groups > (elliptic curve groups over GF[P]). >=20 > This is not totally correct. As of this writing, no EC2N groups > have been assigned values for use with IKEv2. Also, eight of the > ten EC2N groups for IKEv1 are not documented in any RFC. (And yes, > I'm aware of draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-ecc-groups -- but that hasn't > been approved yet, and requires changes before approval.) >=20 >=20 > 2) For IKEv1/IKEv2, the document should explicitly specify how=20 > ECC points are converted to octet strings (for KE payloads=20 > and resulting shared secret value). Currently, there are at=20 > least three incompatible options (RFC 4753, RFC 2409, and=20 > draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-ecc-groups-10 drafts). I'd suggest just > saying "the same way as in RFC 4753". >=20 >=20 > Best regards, > Pasi _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 10 03:19:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfVnR-0001Oh-MT; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:15:57 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfVnR-0001Oc-37 for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:15:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfVnQ-0001OT-Pi for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:15:56 -0400 Received: from datnt07.tieto.com ([194.110.47.24] helo=tietoe03.tietoenator.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfVnK-0005UD-IO for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:15:56 -0400 X-AuditID: c26e2f18-00001ec400001bdc-66-470c7bf76953 Received: from camaro.eu.tieto.com ([192.176.143.43]) by tietoe03.tietoenator.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:15:03 +0300 Received: from corvette.eu.tieto.com ([192.176.143.143]) by camaro.eu.tieto.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:15:23 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: SV: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:15:23 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 Thread-Index: AcgLChS0YTzrvQUXS8WQRRl4u/GNWAAAdSjm References: <1191958117.2477.212.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com><20071009200326.GE6141@kebe.East.Sun.COM> <7.0.1.0.1.20071010104747.04eb6d90@intoto.com> From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2007 07:15:23.0478 (UTC) FILETIME=[52FBE760:01C80B0D] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org As I understand it, somewhere the local node should store which IKE peers it may talk to. Each IKE session negotiates CHILD SAs. The local node can negotiate only CHILD SAs / traffic selectors found in its SPD. The PAD is a table to relate which=20 traffic selectors can be negotiated by which IKE peers. In case all IKE peers are allowed to negotiate all traffic selectors, there is no need for the PAD. =20 Christian ________________________________ Fra: ns srinivasa murthy [mailto:nsmurthy@intoto.com] Sendt: on 10-10-2007 07:28 Til: Dan McDonald; Joy Latten Cc: ipsec@ietf.org Emne: Re: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 PAD is not mandatory as per the following paragraph from RFC4301 "4.4. Major IPsec Databases Many of the details associated with processing IP traffic in an IPsec implementation are largely a local matter, not subject to standardization. However, some external aspects of the processing must be standardized to ensure interoperability and to provide a minimum management capability that is essential for productive use of IPsec. This section describes a general model for processing IP traffic relative to IPsec functionality, in support of these interoperability and functionality goals. The model described below is nominal; implementations need not match details of this model as presented, but the external behavior of implementations MUST correspond to the externally observable characteristics of this model in order to be compliant. -nsmurthy At 01:33 AM 10/10/2007, Dan McDonald wrote: On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 02:28:37PM -0500, Joy Latten wrote: > RFC 4301 specifies a Peer Authentication Database. =09 s/Authentication/Authorization/ =09 > In section 4.4.3.4, it even talks about how IKE > is to use the PAD. >=20 > I see no reference to PAD in RFC 4306 - IKEv2. >=20 > Is PAD mandatory for 4301 and 4306 conformance? =09 >From my readings, I get the impression that PAD is an IPsec policy = (SPD) --> Key Management Policy (configuration + basic acceptance tests) mapping. = For example, if you look in ike.config(4) on Solaris or OpenSolaris with = the OpenSolaris binary extras, that's a sort of PAD (though not as well = mapped as 4301 says). Our ike.config answers questions like, "Which type of IKE authentication should I use or accept?" and, "Do I accept any IKE from addresses in prefix /N?" A more 4301-like PAD would also answer questions like, "Is this IKE request from x.y.z.N authenticated with a certificate that's qualified to speak for x.y.z.N?" =09 Dan =09 =09 _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 10 03:45:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWBU-0002l3-2T; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:40:48 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWBS-0002kj-Mo for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:40:46 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWBS-0002kU-9x for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:40:46 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.173] helo=mgw-ext14.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWBM-00068w-MN for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:40:46 -0400 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-ext14.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l9A7e7I9023174 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:40:33 +0300 Received: from esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.33]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:40:06 +0300 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:40:06 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:40:07 +0300 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 Thread-Index: AcgLChS0YTzrvQUXS8WQRRl4u/GNWAAAdSjmAAEVVWA= References: <1191958117.2477.212.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com><20071009200326.GE6141@kebe.East.Sun.COM><7.0.1.0.1.20071010104747.04eb6d90@intoto.com> From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2007 07:40:06.0566 (UTC) FILETIME=[C6F92C60:01C80B10] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Traffic selector authorization is not the only piece of information stored in PAD. My understanding is that the RFC 4301 PAD is a purely logical (documentation) concept, not an implementation concept. In=20 other words, a real implementation does not necessarily have a=20 data structure called PAD, but it does have some information=20 that enables IKEv2 to work (e.g. how to authenticate peers,=20 what SAs different peers can create, etc.) and RFC 4301 calls=20 this information "PAD". Existing implementations might call it "isakmpd.conf" or something like that... Best regards, Pasi > -----Original Message----- > From: Christian.Kaas-Petersen@tietoenator.com > Sent: 10 October, 2007 10:15 > To: nsmurthy@intoto.com > Cc: ipsec@ietf.org > Subject: SV: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 >=20 > As I understand it, somewhere the local node should store which > IKE peers it may talk to. Each IKE session negotiates CHILD SAs. > The local node can negotiate only CHILD SAs / traffic selectors > found in its SPD. The PAD is a table to relate which=20 > traffic selectors can be negotiated by which IKE peers. In > case all IKE peers are allowed to negotiate all traffic selectors, > there is no need for the PAD. > =20 > Christian >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Fra: ns srinivasa murthy [mailto:nsmurthy@intoto.com] > Sendt: on 10-10-2007 07:28 > Til: Dan McDonald; Joy Latten > Cc: ipsec@ietf.org > Emne: Re: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 >=20 >=20 >=20 > PAD is not mandatory as per the following paragraph from RFC4301 >=20 >=20 > "4.4. Major IPsec Databases >=20 > Many of the details associated with processing IP traffic in an IPsec > implementation are largely a local matter, not subject to > standardization. However, some external aspects of the > processing > must be standardized to ensure interoperability and to > provide a > minimum management capability that is essential for > productive use of > IPsec. This section describes a general model for > processing IP > traffic relative to IPsec functionality, in support of > these > interoperability and functionality goals. The model > described below > is nominal; implementations need not match details of this > model as > presented, but the external behavior of implementations > MUST > correspond to the externally observable characteristics of > this model > in order to be compliant. >=20 > -nsmurthy >=20 _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 10 03:48:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWHi-0003y7-Vp; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:47:14 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWHh-0003v9-HP for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:47:13 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWHg-0003b3-Ii for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:47:13 -0400 Received: from ip-66-80-10-146.dsl.sca.megapath.net ([66.80.10.146] helo=barracuda.intoto.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWHQ-0006Kj-4j for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:47:02 -0400 Received: from angel.intoto.com (smtp.intoto.com [10.1.5.29]) by barracuda.intoto.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 0E010378AD; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 00:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brahma.hyd.intoto.com (intotoind.com [172.16.1.10]) by angel.intoto.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9A7r1To023613; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 00:53:02 -0700 Received: from nsm.intoto.com (3mc100.hyd.intoto.com [172.16.3.100]) by brahma.hyd.intoto.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9A7kGre021885; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:16:18 +0530 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20071010115610.023b1ec0@intoto.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:17:45 +0530 To: "Steven M. Bellovin" , Tjeu From: ns srinivasa murthy Subject: Re: [IPsec] IPSec, ESP and AH authentication In-Reply-To: <20071009234345.044f62d9@berkshire.machshav.com> References: <13115564.post@talk.nabble.com> <20071009234345.044f62d9@berkshire.machshav.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.62 on 172.16.1.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff03b0075c3fc728d7d60a15b4ee1ad2 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0590139934==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org --===============0590139934== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_13062781==.ALT" --=====================_13062781==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In tunnel mode ESP ,the inner IP header is protected and as such no one can change the source IP in between.This inner IP packet is the actual data packet and its source IP can not be changed.So Data origin Authentication is supported in tunnel mode ESP. Even if the outer Source IP is changed in between,the attacker can not do any harm.The implementation has to take care that the out going ESP traffic is sent only to the tunnel end point detected as part of IKE negotiation. -nsmurthy At 05:13 AM 10/10/2007, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: >On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 06:26:57 -0700 (PDT) >Tjeu wrote: > > > > > Dear All, > > > > As you might know, IPSec ESP authentication does not authenticate the > > destination and source > > addresses of the IP header, whereas the IPSec AH authentication > > does(i.e. calculatec MAC over them). However, both claim that they > > offer data origin authentication. It is not clear for me how the ESP > > authentication offers data origin authentication, as the MAC is not > > computed on the source and dest addresses. Therefore the attacker > > could easily modify them. Am I missing something ? I would be > > thankful if anyone could provide links where I could read regarding > > this subject, in more details. I looked through some RFC's but they > > dont seem to help. > > >Put the IP addresses in the SPD, and derive that in turn from the >authenticated identity. If the attacker modifies them, the packet will >be dropped because it won't match the SPD. > > > --Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb > > >_______________________________________________ >IPsec mailing list >IPsec@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec ******************************************************************************** This email message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Thank you. Intoto Inc. --=====================_13062781==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
In tunnel mode ESP ,the inner IP header is protected and as such no one can change the source IP in between.This inner IP packet is the actual data packet and its source IP can not be changed.So Data origin Authentication is supported in tunnel mode ESP.

Even if the outer Source IP is changed in between,the attacker can not do any harm.The implementation has to take care that the out going ESP traffic is sent only to the tunnel end point detected as part of IKE negotiation.

-nsmurthy

At 05:13 AM 10/10/2007, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 06:26:57 -0700 (PDT)
Tjeu <david_gutenberrger@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Dear All,
>
> As you might know, IPSec ESP authentication does not authenticate the
> destination and source
> addresses of the IP header, whereas the IPSec AH authentication
> does(i.e. calculatec MAC over them). However, both claim that they
> offer data origin authentication. It is not clear for me how the ESP
> authentication offers data origin authentication, as the MAC is not
> computed on the source and dest addresses. Therefore the attacker
> could easily modify them. Am I missing something ? I would be
> thankful if anyone could provide links where I could read regarding
> this subject, in more details. I looked through some RFC's but they
> dont seem to help.
>
Put the IP addresses in the SPD, and derive that in turn from the
authenticated identity. If the attacker modifies them, the packet will
be dropped because it won't match the SPD.

--Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb

_______________________________________________
IPsec mailing list
IPsec@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec

--=====================_13062781==.ALT-- --===============0590139934== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0590139934==-- From gslack@telmex.com Wed Oct 10 07:11:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfZTO-0007va-Aq for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:11:30 -0400 Received: from [122.167.192.7] (helo=ABTS-KK-Dynamic-007.192.167.122.airtelbroadband.in) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfZTI-0004r1-K2 for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:11:26 -0400 Received: from wqof ([53.131.120.186]) by ABTS-KK-Dynamic-007.192.167.122.airtelbroadband.in (8.13.2/8.13.2) with SMTP id l9ABC7oP037406; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:42:07 +0530 Message-ID: <470CB348.1030008@telmex.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:41:04 +0530 From: User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: cool arcade games Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 No membership, no tricks, no gimmicks, just 1000 free games. http://88.119.121.140/ From BilliewinchRandall@berlios.de Wed Oct 10 09:24:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfbXz-0004vq-D4 for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:24:23 -0400 Received: from [201.221.170.38] (helo=pc2) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfbXw-00014B-3M for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:24:21 -0400 Message-ID: <443801c80b40$d65b4fa0$0d00a8c0@PC2> From: "Sterling Dominguez" To: Subject: Re: You can pay off your loan early Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:22:11 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_4434_01C80B40.D65B4FA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_4434_01C80B40.D65B4FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let us assist with the placement of working capital business loans for = small to medium sized businesses in all 50 states We've created an affordable, simple, and flexible approach to providing = working capital of $5,000 to $500,000 or more. No obligation application. No cost to apply. No closing costs. Poor = credit not a problem. Get approved in 48 hours! with a simple application process & quick = funding, Call Us Free on 877-347-3607 ------=_NextPart_000_4434_01C80B40.D65B4FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_4434_01C80B40.D65B4FA0-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 10 10:27:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfcT9-00040S-7I; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:23:27 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfcT7-0003x0-V9 for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:23:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfcT7-0003ws-L3; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:23:25 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfcT2-0003Pl-GQ; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:23:25 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.3] (pool-72-76-39-171.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net [72.76.39.171]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9AEMxj9006313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:23:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:22:53 -0400 To: , , IPsec WG From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Cc: kent@bbn.com, mlepinski@bbn.com Subject: [IPsec] Re: Last call comments for draft-lepinski-dh-groups-01 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org At 1:32 PM +0300 10/9/07, wrote: >1) Section 1 says: > > "Sixteen additional groups subsequently have been defined and > assigned values by IANA for use with IKE (v1 and v2). All of > these additional groups are optional in the IKE context. Of > the twenty-one groups defined so far, eight are MODP groups > (exponentiation groups modulo a prime), ten are EC2N groups > (elliptic curve groups over GF[2^N]) and three are ECP groups > (elliptic curve groups over GF[P]). > >This is not totally correct. As of this writing, no EC2N groups >have been assigned values for use with IKEv2. Also, eight of the >ten EC2N groups for IKEv1 are not documented in any RFC. (And yes, >I'm aware of draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-ecc-groups -- but that hasn't >been approved yet, and requires changes before approval.) draft-lepinski-dh-groups needs to track draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-ecc-groups very carefully. If there is any mis-match, we will have interoperability problems in the future. >2) For IKEv1/IKEv2, the document should explicitly specify how >ECC points are converted to octet strings (for KE payloads >and resulting shared secret value). Currently, there are at >least three incompatible options (RFC 4753, RFC 2409, and >draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-ecc-groups-10 drafts). I'd suggest just >saying "the same way as in RFC 4753". This bodes really poorly for interoperability. draft-lepinski-dh-groups needs to be revised to specify one of the methods, and that needs to be discussed on the IPsec mailing list. I would not assume that implementers would prefer RFC 4753 over draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-ecc-groups. --Paul Hoffman, Director --VPN Consortium _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 10 11:42:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfdeP-0007wU-KK; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:39:09 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfdeO-0007u2-KE for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:39:08 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfdeO-0007tW-7A for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:39:08 -0400 Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.69]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfdeL-0000AG-Ks for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:39:06 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=GU/dn8hzguSzIAO2lEEgieRb99Eqib8DYTCIsmQM1Uy2okA8s+joCsXslplaFGQm; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Cc:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.53] (helo=elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1IfdeL-0001Gn-6H; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:39:05 -0400 Received: from 72.18.28.2 by webmail.pas.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:39:01 -0400 Message-ID: <5139695.1192030741081.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:39:01 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: "Scott G. Kelly" To: Tjeu Subject: Re: [IPsec] IPSec, ESP and AH authentication Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 5b98cdd91c374dcd776432462e451d7bd15d05d9470ff7108bb3d9444fed297a39d1e9faf8608140350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.53 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Scott G. Kelly" List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org As Srinivasa points out, changes to the source IP really are irrelevant. Data origin authentication has nothing to do with IP addresses - it has to do with _endpoints_, which may be applications, people, etc. IP addresses can change, but presumably, only the authorized, authenticated endpoint has the appropriate keys with which to assert the originating identity. -----Original Message----- >From: ns srinivasa murthy >Sent: Oct 10, 2007 12:47 AM >To: "Steven M. Bellovin" , Tjeu >Cc: ipsec@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [IPsec] IPSec, ESP and AH authentication > > >In tunnel mode ESP ,the inner IP header is protected and as such no >one can change the source IP in between.This inner IP packet is the >actual data packet and its source IP can not be changed.So Data >origin Authentication is supported in tunnel mode ESP. > >Even if the outer Source IP is changed in between,the attacker can >not do any harm.The implementation has to take care that the out >going ESP traffic is sent only to the tunnel end point detected as >part of IKE negotiation. > >-nsmurthy > >At 05:13 AM 10/10/2007, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: >>On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 06:26:57 -0700 (PDT) >>Tjeu wrote: >> >> > >> > Dear All, >> > >> > As you might know, IPSec ESP authentication does not authenticate the >> > destination and source >> > addresses of the IP header, whereas the IPSec AH authentication >> > does(i.e. calculatec MAC over them). However, both claim that they >> > offer data origin authentication. It is not clear for me how the ESP >> > authentication offers data origin authentication, as the MAC is not >> > computed on the source and dest addresses. Therefore the attacker >> > could easily modify them. Am I missing something ? I would be >> > thankful if anyone could provide links where I could read regarding >> > this subject, in more details. I looked through some RFC's but they >> > dont seem to help. >> > >>Put the IP addresses in the SPD, and derive that in turn from the >>authenticated identity. If the attacker modifies them, the packet will >>be dropped because it won't match the SPD. >> >> >> --Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>IPsec mailing list >>IPsec@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec > > >******************************************************************************** >This email message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) >and may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, >use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, >please immediately notify the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. >Thank you. > >Intoto Inc. > _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 10 12:21:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfeGi-0005Sq-53; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:18:44 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IfeGg-0005ST-Sp for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:18:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfeGg-0005S8-Iz for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:18:42 -0400 Received: from mx11.bbn.com ([128.33.0.80]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfeGa-0007O8-8F for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:18:42 -0400 Received: from dhcp89-089-116.bbn.com ([128.89.89.116]) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IfeGK-0001MM-4n; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:18:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <1191958117.2477.212.camel@faith.austin.ibm.com><20071009200326.GE6141@keb e.East.Sun.COM> <7.0.1.0.1.20071010104747.04eb6d90@intoto.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:13:12 -0400 To: From: Karen Seo Subject: Re: SV: [IPsec] PAD and IKEv2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org I think we're in agreement, but just to be sure ... the PAD defines which peers are authorized to communicate with the IPsec entity in question, how to authenticate each peer, and which entities each peer is authorized to represent (for child SA creation). If all peers were allowed to communicate with the IPsec entity and any peer could represent any entity (ID), then yes, I suppose one would not need a PAD for these functions. 4.5.3 mentions that the PAD could be the place where one stores information about locating security gateways, in which case, one would need a PAD. Karen >As I understand it, somewhere the local node should store which >IKE peers it may talk to. Each IKE session negotiates CHILD SAs. >The local node can negotiate only CHILD SAs / traffic selectors >found in its SPD. The PAD is a table to relate which >traffic selectors can be negotiated by which IKE peers. In >case all IKE peers are allowed to negotiate all traffic selectors, >there is no need for the PAD. > >Christian > _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 10 13:02:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IferV-0007wD-7M; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:56:45 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IferT-0007vw-Lx for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IferT-0007dh-Aw for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400 Received: from owa.tma.osd.mil ([199.208.0.139] helo=densisa01.tma.osd.mil) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifer8-0002ZY-TL for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:56:23 -0400 Received: from densowa01.tma.osd.mil ([159.133.170.55]) by densisa01.tma.osd.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:56:18 -0600 Received: from hasmailsrs01.ha.osd.mil ([164.65.217.77]) by densowa01.tma.osd.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:56:18 -0600 Received: from hasmail01.ha.osd.mil ([164.65.217.79]) by hasmailsrs01.ha.osd.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:56:17 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: [IPsec] IPSec, ESP and AH authentication Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:56:17 -0400 Message-ID:

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