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------=_NextPart_000_15813_01C81CF4.C056C890-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 02 01:32:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Inp2X-0004FX-GY; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 01:25:53 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Inp2W-0004FM-6M for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 01:25:52 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Inp2R-0004Ar-9W for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 01:25:50 -0400 Received: from [2001:14b8:400::130] (helo=smtp.piuha.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Inp2Q-0000WL-34 for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 01:25:47 -0400 Received: from smtp.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3851986C6; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:25:42 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by smtp.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E547C19867C; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:25:41 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <472AB4D5.6050809@piuha.net> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 07:25:41 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.14pre (X11/20071022) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Narayanan, Vidya" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, mobike@machshav.com Subject: [IPsec] Re: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Presumably because MOBIKE is a mobility and multihoming facility for IPsec clients and gateways, i.e., you can change the outer IP addresses. Its not a general SA renegotiation facility. Yes, it could be done, but I'm not sure that's really within the scope of the feature. Unless we are talking about extension to deal with transport mode, which has been something at least a few people were interested in. Jari Narayanan, Vidya kirjoitti: > Hi, > RFC4555 only allows updates to tunnel endpoint addresses and not > selectors, etc. Does anyone know why TS updates are not permitted? If > MOBIKE allowed what an SA rekey would allow, what is the problem? > > Thanks, > Vidya > _______________________________________________ > Mobike mailing list > Mobike@machshav.com > https://www.machshav.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mobike > > > _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From Marita890@eikobr.com Fri Nov 02 05:03:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InsR5-0000r9-NR for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:03:27 -0400 Received: from [85.97.193.57] (helo=dsl.static859719357.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InsR4-000653-5q for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:03:27 -0400 Received: from muftuluk by eikobr.com with ASMTP id 93D89ED3 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:03:42 +0200 Received: from muftuluk ([187.194.38.2]) by eikobr.com with ESMTP id AD22C683B32F for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:03:42 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01c81d2f$3a5708f0$39c16155@muftuluk> From: "Marita elbazzaz" To: Subject: geweiden Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:03:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C81D3F.FDDFD8F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C81D3F.FDDFD8F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hello kitty baby ipsec-archive she should accept you as you are but she doesn't like your small dick! http://dodgeti.com/ Marita elbazzaz ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C81D3F.FDDFD8F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_485F6_01C81D70.DFED1B60-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 02 13:49:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io0YQ-0006Qh-C1; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:43:34 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Io0YM-0006QE-UW for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:43:30 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io0YM-0006Q2-Iq for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:43:30 -0400 Received: from ithilien.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.59]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io0YG-00071V-AG for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:43:30 -0400 Received: from sabrina.qualcomm.com (sabrina.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.150]) by ithilien.qualcomm.com (8.13.6/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id lA2Hh7iC019654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:43:08 -0700 Received: from SANEXCAS02.na.qualcomm.com (sanexcas02.qualcomm.com [172.30.36.176]) by sabrina.qualcomm.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/1.0) with ESMTP id lA2Hh4JB023550; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:43:06 -0700 Received: from NAEX13.na.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.248]) by SANEXCAS02.na.qualcomm.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:43:05 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:43:03 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <472AB4D5.6050809@piuha.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE Thread-Index: AcgdEPPLpNWDqHT8QaGkDqNG2bCfqwAZGlpA References: <472AB4D5.6050809@piuha.net> From: "Narayanan, Vidya" To: "Jari Arkko" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Nov 2007 17:43:05.0945 (UTC) FILETIME=[D3108C90:01C81D77] X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, mobike@machshav.com Subject: [IPsec] RE: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hi Jari,=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net]=20 > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 10:26 PM > To: Narayanan, Vidya > Cc: mobike@machshav.com; ipsec@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE >=20 > Presumably because MOBIKE is a mobility and multihoming=20 > facility for IPsec clients and gateways, i.e., you can change=20 > the outer IP addresses. Its not a general SA renegotiation facility. >=20 Yes, I understand that that is the purpose of MOBIKE. But, I don't see a good reason to prevent other updates from happening as part of that same exchange. For e.g., let's say that when my address changes, I want to update the SA (or rekey) to start encrypting some additional traffic (fitting different selector criteria) using the same SA - the initiator now has to do separate MOBIKE and rekeying exchanges, which is not really efficient.=20 > Yes, it could be done, but I'm not sure that's really within=20 > the scope of the feature. Unless we are talking about=20 > extension to deal with transport mode, which has been=20 > something at least a few people were interested in. >=20 I think the above point of updating the SAs applies equally to transport and tunnel mode, but, extending MOBIKE for transport mode is independently useful in my view.=20 Regards, Vidya > Jari >=20 > Narayanan, Vidya kirjoitti: > > Hi, > > RFC4555 only allows updates to tunnel endpoint addresses and not=20 > > selectors, etc. Does anyone know why TS updates are not=20 > permitted? =20 > > If MOBIKE allowed what an SA rekey would allow, what is the problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Vidya > > _______________________________________________ > > Mobike mailing list > > Mobike@machshav.com > > https://www.machshav.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mobike > > > > > > =20 >=20 _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 02 15:36:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io2GH-0003ay-VV; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:32:57 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Io2GG-0003a8-Ks for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:32:56 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io2GF-0003Zn-Sv for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:32:55 -0400 Received: from mail.ca.certicom.com ([38.113.160.197]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io2G9-0003Qk-KW for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:32:55 -0400 Received: from spamfilter.certicom.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ca.certicom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5775610027FE3; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.ca.certicom.com ([127.0.0.1]) by spamfilter.certicom.com (storm.certicom.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 79HrJE8BSjX7; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from domino1.certicom.com (domino1.certicom.com [10.0.1.24]) by mail.ca.certicom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.24.0.102] ([10.24.0.102]) by domino1.certicom.com (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.2FP2 HF177) with ESMTP id 2007110215321221-195361 ; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:32:12 -0400 Message-ID: <472B7BBA.90604@certicom.com> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:34:18 -0400 From: Chinh Nguyen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Narayanan, Vidya" Subject: Re: [IPsec] RE: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE References: <472AB4D5.6050809@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on Certicom1/Certicom(Release 7.0.2FP2 HF177|August 10, 2007) at 11/02/2007 03:32:12 PM, Serialize by Router on Certicom1/Certicom(Release 7.0.2FP2 HF177|August 10, 2007) at 11/02/2007 03:32:14 PM, Serialize complete at 11/02/2007 03:32:14 PM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, mobike@machshav.com X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Efficiency is overrated. But all joking aside, the UPDATE_SA notify payload is part of an informational exchange. Informationals do not contain the necessary payloads to "update an SA" such as TS, KE, and even SA payloads. The alternative is to allow the UPDATE_SA notify payload to be part of a CREATE_CHILD_SA message. If so, it must be further specified that there are now 2 ways to UPDATE_SA: a regular end-point update via an informational, and a end-point + TS + [etc.] update via a create child sa. Since this is a reasonably major change to the MOBIKE spec, which is already an RFC, you may need a compelling use-case scenario. A saving of 2 additional packets (for the extra rekey to change the TS) may not be sufficient reason to blur the current functional boundaries. Chinh -- http://www.certicom.com Narayanan, Vidya wrote: > Hi Jari, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] >> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 10:26 PM >> To: Narayanan, Vidya >> Cc: mobike@machshav.com; ipsec@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE >> >> Presumably because MOBIKE is a mobility and multihoming >> facility for IPsec clients and gateways, i.e., you can change >> the outer IP addresses. Its not a general SA renegotiation facility. >> > > Yes, I understand that that is the purpose of MOBIKE. But, I don't see > a good reason to prevent other updates from happening as part of that > same exchange. For e.g., let's say that when my address changes, I want > to update the SA (or rekey) to start encrypting some additional traffic > (fitting different selector criteria) using the same SA - the initiator > now has to do separate MOBIKE and rekeying exchanges, which is not > really efficient. > >> Yes, it could be done, but I'm not sure that's really within >> the scope of the feature. Unless we are talking about >> extension to deal with transport mode, which has been >> something at least a few people were interested in. >> > > I think the above point of updating the SAs applies equally to transport > and tunnel mode, but, extending MOBIKE for transport mode is > independently useful in my view. > > Regards, > Vidya > > >> Jari >> >> Narayanan, Vidya kirjoitti: >>> Hi, >>> RFC4555 only allows updates to tunnel endpoint addresses and not >>> selectors, etc. Does anyone know why TS updates are not >> permitted? >>> If MOBIKE allowed what an SA rekey would allow, what is the problem? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Vidya >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mobike mailing list >>> Mobike@machshav.com >>> https://www.machshav.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mobike >>> >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > IPsec mailing list > IPsec@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From MorganwherewithalShook@techcrunch.com Fri Nov 02 15:58:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io2fQ-0002Lp-Bt; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:58:56 -0400 Received: from adsl-76-235-170-152.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net ([76.235.170.152] helo=chardonnay) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io2fM-0004wK-Pw; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:58:53 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host49923799.techcrunch.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id OddtOfYB28.764705.rz8.14j.7691116159996 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 16:58:13 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Eugenia Jarrett" To: Subject: Your health Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 16:58:13 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_D8202_01C81D93.24BE2BE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_D8202_01C81D93.24BE2BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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------=_NextPart_000_20855_01C81D93.D6F86460-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 02 17:19:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io3px-0007ir-78; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:13:53 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Io3pw-0007iJ-3T for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:13:52 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io3pv-0007iB-QC for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:13:51 -0400 Received: from mx12.bbn.com ([128.33.0.81]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io3pn-0008AG-UR for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:13:51 -0400 Received: from dhcp89-089-071.bbn.com ([128.89.89.71]) by mx12.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Io3pV-00089E-5o; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:13:26 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <472AB4D5.6050809@piuha.net> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 17:02:38 -0400 To: "Narayanan, Vidya" From: Stephen Kent Subject: [IPsec] RE: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, mobike@machshav.com X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org At 10:43 AM -0700 11/2/07, Narayanan, Vidya wrote: >Hi Jari, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] >> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 10:26 PM >> To: Narayanan, Vidya >> Cc: mobike@machshav.com; ipsec@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE >> >> Presumably because MOBIKE is a mobility and multihoming >> facility for IPsec clients and gateways, i.e., you can change >> the outer IP addresses. Its not a general SA renegotiation facility. >> > >Yes, I understand that that is the purpose of MOBIKE. But, I don't see >a good reason to prevent other updates from happening as part of that >same exchange. For e.g., let's say that when my address changes, I want >to update the SA (or rekey) to start encrypting some additional traffic >(fitting different selector criteria) using the same SA - the initiator >now has to do separate MOBIKE and rekeying exchanges, which is not >really efficient. > >> Yes, it could be done, but I'm not sure that's really within >> the scope of the feature. Unless we are talking about >> extension to deal with transport mode, which has been >> something at least a few people were interested in. >> > >I think the above point of updating the SAs applies equally to transport >and tunnel mode, but, extending MOBIKE for transport mode is >independently useful in my view. > >Regards, >Vidya Vidya, So long as the only change is to the outer headers, this is viewed as a MOBIKE issue, not a core IPsec issue. If you want to make TS changes, then this becomes an IPsec architecture issue and needs to be more closely examined. So, I think the agreement was to let IKE continue to do the more invasive SA management. Steve _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 02 18:04:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io4Yr-0008TS-7R; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:00:17 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Io4Yp-0008SV-G7 for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:00:15 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io4Yp-0008RQ-68 for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:00:15 -0400 Received: from [2001:1bc8:100d::2] (helo=mail.kivinen.iki.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io4Yj-0002P1-L6 for ipsec@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:00:15 -0400 Received: from fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kivinen.iki.fi (8.13.8/8.12.10) with ESMTP id lA2M00GI020665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 3 Nov 2007 00:00:00 +0200 (EET) Received: (from kivinen@localhost) by fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (8.13.8/8.12.11) id lA2DiEK8009079; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:44:14 +0200 (EET) X-Authentication-Warning: fireball.kivinen.iki.fi: kivinen set sender to kivinen@iki.fi using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18219.10670.837747.9511@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:44:14 +0200 From: Tero Kivinen To: "Narayanan, Vidya" In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 21.4.1 X-Edit-Time: 5 min X-Total-Time: 5 min X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, mobike@machshav.com Subject: [IPsec] [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Narayanan, Vidya writes: > RFC4555 only allows updates to tunnel endpoint addresses and not > selectors, etc. Yes, as that was outside the charter of the mobike. > Does anyone know why TS updates are not permitted? It is already done by the IKEv2 protocol, with fast and efficient exchange called CREATE_CHILD_SA... I.e. if you need it simply, create new SA with new traffic selectors, and delete the old one. > If MOBIKE allowed what an SA rekey would allow, what is the problem? All traffic going through the SA would usually stop, as it would not know it needs to change the IP addresses, thus it would still be using the original addresses, and it wouldn't fit to the new SA. I.e. as the idea is that the for example TCP streams running inside the IPsec SA using mobike, keeps exactly same IP addresses all the time, so the TCP do not notice the movement at all. When outer addresses change, the inner addresses stay same, and TCP will only see those inner addresses it will stay happy. If those inner addresses would change then TCP streams running on old addresses would be broken and connections would be lost unless the TCP stack was also modified to update the addresses. So in mobike case there is no need to update the inner addresses, and if someone makes some real world scenario where such thing is needed CREATE_CHILD_SA will solve the problem for him... -- kivinen@safenet-inc.com _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From MaribrevetJernigan@chevronfcu.org Fri Nov 02 18:36:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io57q-0002cw-6X; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:36:26 -0400 Received: from 186-215.186-72.tampabay.res.rr.com ([72.186.215.186] helo=mara.tampabay.rr.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io57k-0005E7-T8; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:36:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host10021711.chevronfcu.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id n3wue6tF68.724349.Vut.UTE.9465794306355 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 17:35:49 +0600 Message-ID: <27b4d01c81da0$beadc050$6601a8c0@mara> From: "James Barnhart" To: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_D6369_01C81DEF.CAB751A0-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Sat Nov 03 08:16:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IoHnM-0006WV-1A; Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:08:08 -0400 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IoHnK-0006W9-KV for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:08:06 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IoHnK-0006W1-9A for ipsec@ietf.org; Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:08:06 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IoHnJ-0006l4-DZ for ipsec@ietf.org; Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:08:06 -0400 Received: from [10.0.0.108] ([65.208.111.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id lA3C82m6013446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 3 Nov 2007 05:08:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:07:57 -0400 To: IPsec WG From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d890c9ddd0b0a61e8c597ad30c1c2176 Subject: [IPsec] Fwd: Document Action: 'EAP-IKEv2 Method' to Experimental RFC X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org >The IESG has approved the following document: > >- 'EAP-IKEv2 Method ' > as an Experimental RFC > >This document has been reviewed in the IETF but is not the product of an >IETF Working Group. > >The IESG contact person is Jari Arkko. > >A URL of this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tschofenig-eap-ikev2-15.txt > >Technical Summary > > This document specifies EAP-IKEv2, an EAP authentication method that > is based on the Internet Key Exchange (IKEv2) protocol. EAP-IKEv2 > provides mutual authentication and session key establishment between > an EAP peer and an EAP server. It supports authentication techniques > that are based on passwords, high-entropy shared keys, and public key > certificates. These techniques can be combined in a number of ways. > EAP-IKEv2 further provides support for cryptographic ciphersuite > negotiation, hash function agility, identity confidentiality (in > certain modes of operation), fragmentation, and an optional "fast > reconnect" mode. > >Working Group Summary > > There is no WG behind this proposal, but the document > has gone through discussions in the EAP WG in the past, > and has also passed Expert Review required for IANA > EAP Type code allocation. > > Responsible AD has checked with the chairs and ADs of > the EMU WG for possible conflict with their work. It > was concluded that there is no conflict. > >Protocol Quality > > Jari Arkko has reviewed this specification for the IESG. > Pasi Eronen has acted as the Expert Reviewer. There is > a research implementation of this by the authors of the > proposal. > >Note to RFC Editor > > Remove the sentence "EAP-IKEv2 has sucessfully passed Designated > Expert Review as mandated by RFC 3748." from the Abstract. > > Replace first paragraph of Section 1 with this: > > This document specifies EAP-IKEv2, an EAP method that is based on the > Internet Key Exchange Protocol version 2 (IKEv2) [1]. EAP-IKEv2 > provides mutual authentication and session key establishment between > an EAP peer and an EAP server. It supports authentication techniques > that are based on the following types of credential. > > Insert a new paragraph to Section 1 right before "The remainder > of this document ...": > > Note that the IKEv2 protocol is able to carry EAP exchanges. By > contrast, EAP-IKEv2 does not inherit this capability. That is, > it is not possible to tunnel EAP methods inside EAP-IKEv2. Also > note that the set of functionality provided by EAP-IKEv2 is similar, > but not identical, to that provided by other EAP methods such as, > for example, EAP-TLS [RFC 2716]. > > Section 8.8 first sentence should start "The Certificate > Request payload". > > Remove reference 9. > > Add an informational reference to RFF 2716. > > Replace the IANA considerations section with this: > > IANA should allocate a value for the EAP method type indicating EAP- > IKEv2. EAP-IKEv2 has already earlier sucessfully passed Designated > Expert Review as mandated by RFC 3748 for IANA allocations. > > In addition, IANA is requested to create a new registry for "EAP-IKEv2 > > > Payloads", and populate it with the following initial entries listed > below. > > The following payload type values are used by this document. > > Next Payload Type | Value > -----------------------------------+---------------------------------- > No Next payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 0) > Security Association payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 33) > Key Exchange payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 34) > Identification payload | > (when sent by initiator, IDi) | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 35) > Identification payload | > (when sent by responder, IDr) | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 36) > Certificate payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 37) > Certificate Request payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 38) > Authentication payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 39) > Nonce payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 40) > Notification payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 41) > Vendor ID payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 43) > Encrypted payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 46) > Next Fast-ID payload | TBD by IANA (suggested value: 121) > RESERVED TO IANA | 1-32, 42, 44-45, 47-120, 121-127 > PRIVATE USE | 128-255 > > Payload type values 1-120 are matching the identical payloads in the > IKEv2 IANA registry, all payload numbers not needed by EAP-IKEv2 > are left for RESERVED TO IANA. Payload numbers 121-127 are used for > EAP-IKEv2 specific payloads which are not identical to the payloads > used by IKEv2. That range has been reserved for this purpose in > IKEv2 IANA registry too. This means there will not be same payload > numbers used for different things in IKEv2 and EAP-IKEv2 protocols. > > Payload type values 121-127 are reserved to IANA for future > assignment in EAP-IKEv2 specific payloads. Payload type values > 128-255 are for private use among mutually consenting parties. > > The semantic of the above-listed payloads is provided in this > document (121-127) and refer to IKEv2 when necessary (1-120). > > New payload type values with a > description of their semantic will be assigned after Expert Review. > The expert is chosen by the IESG in consultation with the Security > Area Directors and the EMU working group chairs (or the working > group chairs of a designated successor working group). Updates > can be provided based on expert approval only. A designated > expert will be appointed by the Security Area Directors. > Based on expert approval it is possible to delete entries > from the registry or to mark entries as "deprecated". > > Each registration must include the payload type value and the > semantic of the payload. > > Please also take note of the following editorial > nits from Lars Eggert: > > INTRODUCTION, paragraph 13: > > EAP-IKEv2 has sucessfully passed Designated Expert Review as mandated > > > > > > Nit: s/sucessfully/successfully/ > > Section 1., paragraph 1: > > method does not inherit the capabilites to tunnel EAP methods inside > > Nit: s/capabilites/capabilities/ > > Section 2.14, paragraph 0: > > identifer MUST be embedded in the Encrypted payload. The > > Nit: s/identifer/identifier/ > > Section 4., paragraph 8: > > messages would be the SPI's negotiated on the previous exchange. > > Nit: s/SPI's/SPIs/ > > Section 3.2, paragraph 0: > > Reconnect-ID field contains a fast reconnect identifer that the peer > > Nit: s/identifer/identifier/ > > Section 9., paragraph 1: > > of the preceding payload. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C81F18.DF0545C0-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Sun Nov 04 21:19:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IorY9-0003zZ-3o; Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:18:49 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IorY7-0003yl-UB for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:18:47 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IorY7-0003yd-Iq for ipsec@ietf.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:18:47 -0500 Received: from numenor.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.58]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IorY6-0008EK-QN for ipsec@ietf.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:18:47 -0500 Received: from sabrina.qualcomm.com (sabrina.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.150]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.13.6/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id lA52Hrq5019444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 4 Nov 2007 18:17:53 -0800 Received: from sanexcas01.na.qualcomm.com (sanexcas01.qualcomm.com [172.30.36.175]) by sabrina.qualcomm.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/1.0) with ESMTP id lA52HqSD026941; Sun, 4 Nov 2007 18:17:52 -0800 Received: from NAEX13.na.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.248]) by sanexcas01.na.qualcomm.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 4 Nov 2007 18:17:52 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [IPsec] RE: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 18:17:49 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <472B7BBA.90604@certicom.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPsec] RE: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE Thread-Index: Acgdhyh46Ed7ifDcRp2Zf7CzlqGpGgByBkYg References: <472AB4D5.6050809@piuha.net> <472B7BBA.90604@certicom.com> From: "Narayanan, Vidya" To: "Chinh Nguyen" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2007 02:17:52.0369 (UTC) FILETIME=[11A25610:01C81F52] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, mobike@machshav.com X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Chinh, Steve, Tero, Thanks for all the responses. I'm just taking Chinh's email here to make a few observations.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Chinh Nguyen [mailto:cnguyen@certicom.com]=20 > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 12:34 PM > To: Narayanan, Vidya > Cc: Jari Arkko; ipsec@ietf.org; mobike@machshav.com > Subject: Re: [IPsec] RE: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE >=20 > Efficiency is overrated. >=20 Well, not that overrated over licensed wireless spectrum :)=20 > But all joking aside, the UPDATE_SA notify payload is part of=20 > an informational exchange. Informationals do not contain the=20 > necessary payloads to "update an SA" such as TS, KE, and even=20 > SA payloads. >=20 Yes, that is true. I guess what I was really asking was what you were getting at immediately below.=20 > The alternative is to allow the UPDATE_SA notify payload to=20 > be part of a CREATE_CHILD_SA message. If so, it must be=20 > further specified that there are now 2 ways to UPDATE_SA: a=20 > regular end-point update via an informational, and a=20 > end-point + TS + [etc.] update via a create child sa. >=20 Yes, but, I'm not sure if that's a big deal. It is, after all, a notify payload and the processing of the payload itself doesn't change. So, in essence, we would just be lifting the mandate to only allow it to be carried in an informational exchange.=20 > Since this is a reasonably major change to the MOBIKE spec,=20 > which is already an RFC, you may need a compelling use-case scenario. >=20 The use case that I presently have in mind is the following. IPsec is used in some cases to protect Mobile IPv6 (MIP6) signaling. Some systems differentiate between trusted accesses and untrusted accesses and while IPsec is always used for MIP6 signaling protection in both cases, additional data protection using IPsec may be needed over untrusted access networks (between the same endpoints). When a mobile is moving from a trusted to untrusted access, its IP address changes, but, it also, at the same time, needs to update its SA to start protecting all traffic. At the moment, the mobile, just to handle this handoff case, needs to do a MIP6 signaling exchange, a MOBIKE exchange and a CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange. The first two are unavoidable and can happen in parallel, while the third one has to occur after the MOBIKE exchange completes. This is a latency hit in the critical path that can be avoided if the UPDATE_SA notify payload can be part of the CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange.=20 > A saving of 2 additional packets (for the extra rekey to=20 > change the TS) may not be sufficient reason to blur the=20 > current functional boundaries. >=20 Well, depending on the environment we are talking about, byte savings and particularly latency becomes important. Does the removal (or relaxing) of these tight functional boundaries really cause any issue? If not, I think allowing this can really help some use cases like the above.=20 Regards, Vidya > Chinh >=20 > -- > http://www.certicom.com >=20 > Narayanan, Vidya wrote: > > Hi Jari, > >=20 > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] > >> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 10:26 PM > >> To: Narayanan, Vidya > >> Cc: mobike@machshav.com; ipsec@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE > >> > >> Presumably because MOBIKE is a mobility and multihoming=20 > facility for=20 > >> IPsec clients and gateways, i.e., you can change the outer IP=20 > >> addresses. Its not a general SA renegotiation facility. > >> > >=20 > > Yes, I understand that that is the purpose of MOBIKE. But, I don't=20 > > see a good reason to prevent other updates from happening=20 > as part of=20 > > that same exchange. For e.g., let's say that when my=20 > address changes,=20 > > I want to update the SA (or rekey) to start encrypting some=20 > additional=20 > > traffic (fitting different selector criteria) using the=20 > same SA - the=20 > > initiator now has to do separate MOBIKE and rekeying=20 > exchanges, which=20 > > is not really efficient. > >=20 > >> Yes, it could be done, but I'm not sure that's really within the=20 > >> scope of the feature. Unless we are talking about=20 > extension to deal=20 > >> with transport mode, which has been something at least a=20 > few people=20 > >> were interested in. > >> > >=20 > > I think the above point of updating the SAs applies equally to=20 > > transport and tunnel mode, but, extending MOBIKE for=20 > transport mode is=20 > > independently useful in my view. > >=20 > > Regards, > > Vidya > >=20 > >=20 > >> Jari > >> > >> Narayanan, Vidya kirjoitti: > >>> Hi, > >>> RFC4555 only allows updates to tunnel endpoint addresses and not=20 > >>> selectors, etc. Does anyone know why TS updates are not > >> permitted? =20 > >>> If MOBIKE allowed what an SA rekey would allow, what is=20 > the problem? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Vidya > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Mobike mailing list > >>> Mobike@machshav.com > >>> https://www.machshav.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mobike > >>> > >>> > >>> =20 > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > IPsec mailing list > > IPsec@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec >=20 _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 05 02:24:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IowJT-0006L8-CA; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 02:23:59 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IowJR-0006H7-8H for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 02:23:57 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IowJQ-0006Dy-JQ for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 02:23:56 -0500 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.171] helo=mgw-ext12.nokia.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IowJQ-00067s-1n for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 02:23:56 -0500 Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-ext12.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id lA57MbfJ001573; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:23:07 +0200 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:22:57 +0200 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:22:58 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mobike] [IPsec] RE: TS updates in MOBIKE Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:22:56 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Mobike] [IPsec] RE: TS updates in MOBIKE Thread-Index: Acgdhyh46Ed7ifDcRp2Zf7CzlqGpGgByBkYgAAtBpWA= References: <472AB4D5.6050809@piuha.net><472B7BBA.90604@certicom.com> From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2007 07:22:58.0003 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0A46A30:01C81F7C] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, mobike@machshav.com X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Vidya Narayanan wrote: > The use case that I presently have in mind is the following. IPsec > is used in some cases to protect Mobile IPv6 (MIP6) signaling. Some > systems differentiate between trusted accesses and untrusted > accesses and while IPsec is always used for MIP6 signaling > protection in both cases, additional data protection using IPsec may > be needed over untrusted access networks (between the same > endpoints). When a mobile is moving from a trusted to untrusted > access, its IP address changes, but, it also, at the same time, > needs to update its SA to start protecting all traffic. At the > moment, the mobile, just to handle this handoff case, needs to do a > MIP6 signaling exchange, a MOBIKE exchange and a CREATE_CHILD_SA > exchange. The first two are unavoidable and can happen in parallel, > while the third one has to occur after the MOBIKE exchange > completes. This is a latency hit in the critical path that can be > avoided if the UPDATE_SA notify payload can be part of the > CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange. If the IKE implementation supports window size larger than 1, can't the Informational exchange (with UPDATE_SA notify payload) and CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange occur in parallel, too? 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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C81FB0.02CD3508-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 05 09:12:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip2gi-00038A-Si; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:12:24 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip2gh-00035l-TV for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:12:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip2gh-00034f-8c for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:12:23 -0500 Received: from [2001:1bc8:100d::2] (helo=mail.kivinen.iki.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip2gg-0007fL-Oh for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:12:23 -0500 Received: from fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kivinen.iki.fi (8.13.8/8.12.10) with ESMTP id lA5EC9Zs011927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 5 Nov 2007 16:12:09 +0200 (EET) Received: (from kivinen@localhost) by fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (8.13.8/8.12.11) id lA5EC6fl013090; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 16:12:06 +0200 (EET) X-Authentication-Warning: fireball.kivinen.iki.fi: kivinen set sender to kivinen@iki.fi using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18223.9398.444891.399526@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 16:12:06 +0200 From: Tero Kivinen To: "Narayanan, Vidya" Subject: RE: [IPsec] RE: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE In-Reply-To: References: <472AB4D5.6050809@piuha.net> <472B7BBA.90604@certicom.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 21.4.1 X-Edit-Time: 6 min X-Total-Time: 6 min X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, mobike@machshav.com X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Narayanan, Vidya writes: > The use case that I presently have in mind is the following. IPsec is > used in some cases to protect Mobile IPv6 (MIP6) signaling. Some > systems differentiate between trusted accesses and untrusted accesses > and while IPsec is always used for MIP6 signaling protection in both > cases, additional data protection using IPsec may be needed over > untrusted access networks (between the same endpoints). When a mobile > is moving from a trusted to untrusted access, its IP address changes, > but, it also, at the same time, needs to update its SA to start > protecting all traffic. At the moment, the mobile, just to handle this > handoff case, needs to do a MIP6 signaling exchange, a MOBIKE exchange > and a CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange. The first two are unavoidable and can > happen in parallel, while the third one has to occur after the MOBIKE > exchange completes. This is a latency hit in the critical path that can > be avoided if the UPDATE_SA notify payload can be part of the > CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange. Why it cannot happen in paralleal with UPDATE_SA exchange? IKEv2 already has mechanisms defined for using bigger window for IKEv2, so you just need to enable using of window size of 2 or larger in the IKEv2, to be able to do UPDATE_SA and CREATE_CHILD_SA in paralleal, thus now latency hit at all. Or is there some other reason they cannot be done in paralleal? > Well, depending on the environment we are talking about, byte savings > and particularly latency becomes important. There is no latency problem, so the only problem is the extra 80 bytes sent and received. > Does the removal (or relaxing) of these tight functional boundaries > really cause any issue? If not, I think allowing this can really > help some use cases like the above. As there is already efficient ways to do that in the IKEv2, I do not see any reason to add another different way to get the same results only to save 160 bytes every time transition from trusted to untrusted network happens (most likely at maximum few times per day...) -- kivinen@safenet-inc.com _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From Rimas@compromisosurbanos.com Mon Nov 05 10:20:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip3kx-0003mL-G3 for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:20:51 -0500 Received: from nat-go2-1.aster.pl ([212.76.37.182]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip3kw-0000yH-Vw for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:20:51 -0500 Received: from kaida-jgepvyej7 ([195.126.76.165] helo=kaida-jgepvyej7) by [212.76.37.182] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1zyDce-000RUD-tu for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 16:21:10 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c81fbf$71580e70$b6254cd4@kaidajgepvyej7> From: "Rimas Radisich" To: Subject: swelter1 Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 16:20:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C81FC7.D31C7670" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C81FC7.D31C7670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hola ipsec-archive because it needs to be stiff every time, you need virility pills http://isvst.com/ Rimas Radisich ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C81FC7.D31C7670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C81FD5.9993BB30-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 05 15:02:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip89P-0003ts-Ux; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:02:23 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip89P-0003s6-5J for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:02:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip89O-0003rx-Rw for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:02:22 -0500 Received: from mail.ca.certicom.com ([38.113.160.197]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip89N-0000az-KZ for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:02:22 -0500 Received: from spamfilter.certicom.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ca.certicom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4253610027FE3; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:02:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.ca.certicom.com ([127.0.0.1]) by spamfilter.certicom.com (storm.certicom.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dyz3ggegnEdr; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:02:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from domino1.certicom.com (domino1.certicom.com [10.0.1.24]) by mail.ca.certicom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:02:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.24.0.104] ([10.24.0.104]) by domino1.certicom.com (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.2FP2 HF177) with ESMTP id 2007110515015539-203613 ; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:01:55 -0500 Message-ID: <472F7734.4050503@certicom.com> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:04:04 -0500 From: Chinh Nguyen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tero Kivinen Subject: Re: [IPsec] RE: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE References: <472AB4D5.6050809@piuha.net> <472B7BBA.90604@certicom.com> <18223.9398.444891.399526@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> In-Reply-To: <18223.9398.444891.399526@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on Certicom1/Certicom(Release 7.0.2FP2 HF177|August 10, 2007) at 11/05/2007 03:01:55 PM, Serialize by Router on Certicom1/Certicom(Release 7.0.2FP2 HF177|August 10, 2007) at 11/05/2007 03:01:57 PM, Serialize complete at 11/05/2007 03:01:57 PM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, mobike@machshav.com X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tero Kivinen wrote: > Narayanan, Vidya writes: >> The use case that I presently have in mind is the following. IPsec is >> used in some cases to protect Mobile IPv6 (MIP6) signaling. Some >> systems differentiate between trusted accesses and untrusted accesses >> and while IPsec is always used for MIP6 signaling protection in both >> cases, additional data protection using IPsec may be needed over >> untrusted access networks (between the same endpoints). When a mobile >> is moving from a trusted to untrusted access, its IP address changes, >> but, it also, at the same time, needs to update its SA to start >> protecting all traffic. At the moment, the mobile, just to handle this >> handoff case, needs to do a MIP6 signaling exchange, a MOBIKE exchange >> and a CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange. The first two are unavoidable and can >> happen in parallel, while the third one has to occur after the MOBIKE >> exchange completes. This is a latency hit in the critical path that can >> be avoided if the UPDATE_SA notify payload can be part of the >> CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange. > > Why it cannot happen in paralleal with UPDATE_SA exchange? IKEv2 > already has mechanisms defined for using bigger window for IKEv2, so > you just need to enable using of window size of 2 or larger in the > IKEv2, to be able to do UPDATE_SA and CREATE_CHILD_SA in paralleal, > thus now latency hit at all. Or is there some other reason they cannot > be done in paralleal? A IKEv2 peer may choose to reject a CREATE_CHILD_SA if it arrives from an "unknown" endpoint (SPIs + src/dst addresses are used to track IKEv2 exchanges). In such case, the CREATE_CHILD_SA will fail if a. the CREATE_CHILD_SA arrives before the UPDATE_SA exchange or b. the CREATE_CHILD_SA arrives while the peer is doing a route check to complete the UPDATE_SA exchange. However, this can be mitigated by having the IKEv2 peer use only the SPIs to track IKEv2 exchanges and ignore src/dst addresses. _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 05 15:30:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip8aO-0001gL-Cq; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:30:16 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip5Qm-0003KM-Pm for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:08:08 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip5Qm-0003Io-Fm for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:08:08 -0500 Received: from kuber.nabble.com ([216.139.236.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ip5Ql-0003aR-8E for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:08:08 -0500 Received: from isper.nabble.com ([192.168.236.156]) by kuber.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ip5Qk-0004Bk-OI for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:08:06 -0800 Message-ID: <13591112.post@talk.nabble.com> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:08:06 -0800 (PST) From: Zulfiqer To: ipsec@ietf.org Subject: [Ipsec] Does ipsec-tools 0.6.3 have any known issues? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Nabble-From: msekender@hotmail.com X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:30:14 -0500 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0331326197==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org --===============0331326197== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13414_29121929.1194282486746" ------=_Part_13414_29121929.1194282486746 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I am working with ipsec-tools 0.6.3 and observed that at least twice racoon restarted. But in racoon log, there is no indication at all why racoon is restarting. Is it a known issue in ipsec tools 0.6.3? Does anyone have similar experience? Is this issue fixed in later ipsec versions? If it is fixed, then could you please tell me this issue is fixed in which ipsec version? Regards. - Zulfiqer -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Does-ipsec-tools-0.6.3-have-any-known-issues--tf4752994.html#a13591112 Sent from the IETF - Ipsec mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ------=_Part_13414_29121929.1194282486746 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I am working with ipsec-tools 0.6.3 and observed that at least twice racoon restarted. But in racoon log, there is no indication at all why racoon is restarting. Is it a known issue in ipsec tools 0.6.3? Does anyone have similar experience? Is this issue fixed in later ipsec versions? If it is fixed, then could you please tell me this issue is fixed in which ipsec version? Regards. - Zulfiqer

View this message in context: Does ipsec-tools 0.6.3 have any known issues?
Sent from the IETF - Ipsec mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------=_Part_13414_29121929.1194282486746-- --===============0331326197== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0331326197==-- From ConraddromedaryBrock@gizmodo.com Mon Nov 05 17:03:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpA2F-0006J5-O1; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:03:07 -0500 Received: from 81.202.178.180.dyn.user.ono.com ([81.202.178.180] helo=pcadbd0997388c) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpA2F-0005uq-8L; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:03:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host03905101.gizmodo.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id gvK3JOCQ22.380643.Gcg.5Bs.2222870657416 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 23:02:54 -0100 Message-ID: <82c801c81ff7$a62dc620$0300a8c0@pcadbd0997388c> From: "Ramiro Buchanan" To: Cc: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_2A2B0_01C82015.633F6440-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 05 21:26:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpE96-0002MD-89; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 21:26:28 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IpE94-0002HE-7r for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 21:26:26 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpE93-0002Gy-UR for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 21:26:25 -0500 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.173]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpE91-0003Nd-IP for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 21:26:25 -0500 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id u2so3374410uge for ; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:26:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=d5qZ21m1Pd3da6HkF3QxGv1xychYRlRN4HUvDSxw35A=; b=tp+pKmr7aDmPvsIBMif16N5ad3extQhIxiLQUk3dBBDVmCVTM+KcT+XwWfmnLR4ptH0onFe+uLg7nfmPUSfUgBDitThVCGQX5evo074xXEHsSf0BE+0ZH/e4uJgQEgUukeEDfxZo2Tgw0iEByA1/woxIMIRoLZuEMtJGCHIHAlg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=QvALw1FhPXKe0zrscKGNKnFUYTpu0h9Wlxmqi3fR16hrtvAqvd2vY6XJ9CNAmkimsO+7Kk1m8xguT5gAONWfGSoaEShbadJN0sntWu2XvohT+V6SNzGJqa1LojWimytjrkpU/qJ05YmlK1EtezXHGtK8RRGjuQN+fM4x2/bW/QE= Received: by 10.67.116.4 with SMTP id t4mr69627ugm.1194315982592; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:26:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.255.9 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 18:26:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:26:22 +0800 From: "Charles Li" To: Zulfiqer , ipsec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ipsec] Does ipsec-tools 0.6.3 have any known issues? In-Reply-To: <13591112.post@talk.nabble.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <13591112.post@talk.nabble.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I used the ipsec-tools 0.6.3, not have this problem, now the ipsec-tools 0.7 released, so try it. And the mailing list 'ipsec-tools-devel@lists.sourceforge.net' maybe give you more help. On Nov 6, 2007 1:08 AM, Zulfiqer wrote: > Hi All, I am working with ipsec-tools 0.6.3 and observed that at least > twice racoon restarted. But in racoon log, there is no indication at all why > racoon is restarting. Is it a known issue in ipsec tools 0.6.3? Does anyone > have similar experience? Is this issue fixed in later ipsec versions? If it > is fixed, then could you please tell me this issue is fixed in which ipsec > version? Regards. - Zulfiqer > ________________________________ > View this message in context: Does ipsec-tools 0.6.3 have any known issues? > Sent from the IETF - Ipsec mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > IPsec mailing list > IPsec@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec > > -- Sincerely Yours, Charles Li _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From MaxwellsomewhatPace@aahoa.com Mon Nov 05 22:46:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpFOw-00064s-5z; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:46:54 -0500 Received: from [206.47.98.36] (helo=user79f653be6c) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpFOv-0007u2-Mh; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:46:54 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host98486462.aahoa.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 8MKpz94s22.739731.3PM.iDY.7554040759640 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 22:46:41 +0500 Message-ID: <1bb24201c82027$b3c6e930$6401a8c0@user79f653be6c> From: "Romeo Landry" To: Cc: , =20

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When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
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------=_NextPart_000_1BB23E_01C82027.B3C6E930-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 06 01:26:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpHsy-0002yn-Nx; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 01:26:04 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IpHsw-0002w4-TO for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 01:26:02 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpHsw-0002vk-IK for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 01:26:02 -0500 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.173] helo=mgw-ext14.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpHss-0000A1-Vr for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 01:26:02 -0500 Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-ext14.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id lA66PHq6007527; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:25:41 +0200 Received: from esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.33]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:25:23 +0200 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:25:24 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:25:23 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: draft-lepinski-dh-groups-02 Thread-Index: AcggPdA5UYlCOxJGSFOgoxEY5Ki5Jw== From: To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2007 06:25:24.0196 (UTC) FILETIME=[D06D0A40:01C8203D] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org Subject: [IPsec] draft-lepinski-dh-groups-02 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Matt and Stephen, Thanks for updating the draft! In the -02 version, I think there's one part remaining that's slightly ambiguous: > Use of MODP Diffie-Hellman groups with IKEv2 is defined in > [RFC4306]. However, [RFC4306] does not specify the format of key > exchange payloads and the derivation of shared keys for ECP > Diffie-Hellman groups. For the ECP Diffie-Hellman groups defined in > this document, the key exchange payload format and shared key > derivation procedure specified in [RFC4753] MUST be used. For IKEv1, > the use of both MODP and ECP Diffie-Hellman groups is specified in > [RFC2409]. The IKEv2 text here is clear. However, the last sentence suggests that when e.g. group 19 (NIST P-192) is used with IKEv1, the KE payload format (and shared key derivation) from RFC2409 is used. This seems to conflict with RFC 4753, which specifies a different KE payload format for this group (i.e., Section 7 of RFC 4753 seems to apply to both IKEv1 and IKEv2). Best regards, Pasi _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From JeanietypoShipley@canadiandriver.com Tue Nov 06 07:48:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpNrB-0001Fn-G8; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 07:48:37 -0500 Received: from 24-181-233-157.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com ([24.181.233.157] helo=your15c8dbd1b3) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpNrB-0005bA-65; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 07:48:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host03959694.canadiandriver.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id IgqrCsQk14.729368.svJ.x75.6670044093065 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 07:50:12 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Serena Jorgensen" To: , =20

Package	Quantity	Price in your = local drugstore*	Our = price	Learn More Now
10 tabs	20 doses	~~$95.95~~	$34.19
30 tabs	60 doses	~~$349.95~~	$104.66
60 tabs	120 doses	~~$549.95~~	$180.15
90 tabs	180 doses	~~$789.95~~	$242.06
180 tabs	360 doses	~~$1325.95~~	$445.61

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_E0CF1_01C82073.9F2BE100-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 06 11:16:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpR6P-0008Ga-Rw; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:16:33 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IpPeU-00006X-2P for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:43:38 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpPeT-00006O-Nw for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:43:37 -0500 Received: from mx11.bbn.com ([128.33.0.80]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpPeT-0000sf-Cg for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:43:37 -0500 Received: from mail.bbn.com ([128.33.1.19]) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IpPeS-0008NK-5B; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:43:36 -0500 Received: from dhcp89-089-119.bbn.com ([128.89.89.119] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IpPeS-0000Yx-1S; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:43:36 -0500 Message-ID: <47307D27.1030001@bbn.com> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:41:43 -0500 From: Matt Lepinski Organization: BBN User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:16:33 -0500 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, tim.polk@nist.gov, kent@bbn.com Subject: [IPsec] Re: draft-lepinski-dh-groups-02 X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Pasi, Thanks for catching that. I misread RFC 4753 and thought that Section 7 applied only to IKEv2, but upon re-reading that document it is clear you are correct. I think the following text would remove the ambiguity: "Use of MODP Diffie-Hellman groups with IKEv2 is defined in [RFC4306] and the use of MODP groups with IKEv1 is defined in [RFC2409]. However, in the case of ECP Diffie-Hellman groups, the format of key exchange payloads and the derivation of a shared secret has thus far been specified on a group-by-group basis. For the ECP Diffie-Hellman groups defined in this document, the key exchange payload format and shared key derivation procedure specified in [RFC4753] MUST be used (with both IKEv2 and IKEv1)." - Matt Lepinski Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: >Matt and Stephen, > >Thanks for updating the draft! In the -02 version, I think >there's one part remaining that's slightly ambiguous: > > > >>Use of MODP Diffie-Hellman groups with IKEv2 is defined in >>[RFC4306]. However, [RFC4306] does not specify the format of key >>exchange payloads and the derivation of shared keys for ECP >>Diffie-Hellman groups. For the ECP Diffie-Hellman groups defined in >>this document, the key exchange payload format and shared key >>derivation procedure specified in [RFC4753] MUST be used. For IKEv1, >>the use of both MODP and ECP Diffie-Hellman groups is specified in >>[RFC2409]. >> >> > >The IKEv2 text here is clear. However, the last sentence suggests >that when e.g. group 19 (NIST P-192) is used with IKEv1, the >KE payload format (and shared key derivation) from RFC2409 is >used. This seems to conflict with RFC 4753, which specifies >a different KE payload format for this group (i.e., Section 7 >of RFC 4753 seems to apply to both IKEv1 and IKEv2). > >Best regards, >Pasi > > > _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From SydneyfloodlightCantrell@teenink.com Tue Nov 06 13:07:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpSpu-0005kw-If; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:07:38 -0500 Received: from [200.52.74.1] (helo=mexsaplp04) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpSpt-0006hM-Hd; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:07:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host69968058.teenink.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id X02Q9TRI71.804802.Lru.qOu.1859158399893 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 12:02:58 +0600 Message-ID: <5a7a01c8209f$4cab9020$800101df@MEXSAPLP04> From: "Marquis Travis" To: Subject: Hi Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 12:02:58 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_5A76_01C8209F.4CAB9020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_5A76_01C8209F.4CAB9020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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(VPS 071106-0, 06/11/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Great to see you again ipsec-archive It is the size of ones penis which determines success http://kirootv.com/ Nuri Coker From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 06 20:31:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpZll-0004Qx-FP; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 20:31:49 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IpZlj-0004Qm-PJ for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 20:31:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpZlj-0004QY-Fc for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 20:31:47 -0500 Received: from ithilien.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.59]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpZlf-0000YU-Sq for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 20:31:47 -0500 Received: from totoro.qualcomm.com (totoro.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.158]) by ithilien.qualcomm.com (8.13.6/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id lA71Vd1o014790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 6 Nov 2007 17:31:39 -0800 Received: from sanexcas01.na.qualcomm.com (sanexcas01.qualcomm.com [172.30.36.175]) by totoro.qualcomm.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/1.0) with ESMTP id lA71VZBE021733; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 17:31:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAEX13.na.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.248]) by sanexcas01.na.qualcomm.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 6 Nov 2007 17:31:35 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [IPsec] RE: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 17:31:33 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <472F7734.4050503@certicom.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPsec] RE: [Mobike] TS updates in MOBIKE Thread-Index: Acgf5syB0YfBqdo9TNOEfZ7KUUGM3QA9o6Xw References: <472AB4D5.6050809@piuha.net> <472B7BBA.90604@certicom.com> <18223.9398.444891.399526@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> <472F7734.4050503@certicom.com> From: "Narayanan, Vidya" To: "Chinh Nguyen" , "Tero Kivinen" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2007 01:31:35.0452 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF49EDC0:01C820DD] X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, mobike@machshav.com X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org > >=20 > > Why it cannot happen in paralleal with UPDATE_SA exchange? IKEv2=20 > > already has mechanisms defined for using bigger window for=20 > IKEv2, so=20 > > you just need to enable using of window size of 2 or larger in the=20 > > IKEv2, to be able to do UPDATE_SA and CREATE_CHILD_SA in paralleal,=20 > > thus now latency hit at all. Or is there some other reason=20 > they cannot=20 > > be done in paralleal? >=20 > A IKEv2 peer may choose to reject a CREATE_CHILD_SA if it=20 > arrives from an "unknown" endpoint (SPIs + src/dst addresses=20 > are used to track IKEv2 exchanges). In such case, the=20 > CREATE_CHILD_SA will fail if a. the CREATE_CHILD_SA arrives=20 > before the UPDATE_SA exchange or b. the CREATE_CHILD_SA=20 > arrives while the peer is doing a route check to complete the=20 > UPDATE_SA exchange. >=20 Yes, this is what I was getting at. =20 > However, this can be mitigated by having the IKEv2 peer use=20 > only the SPIs to track IKEv2 exchanges and ignore src/dst addresses. >=20 This gives the impression that the IP address to which the IKE_SA is tied is not important. That is the address that is going to serve as the tunnel endpoint for tunnel mode SAs and hence, has some consequence. I would think that typical implementations reject CREATE_CHILD_SA requests for rekeying an SA, sent from a different IP address than to which the IKE_SA is currently tied - is that not true? RFC4306 is not clear about this.=20 Thanks, Vidya _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 07 03:05:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipfuh-0007QX-21; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 03:05:27 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipfuf-0007NO-NY for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 03:05:25 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipfua-0007Lk-Oh for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 03:05:20 -0500 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.171] helo=mgw-ext12.nokia.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpfuZ-0003Jq-OG for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 03:05:20 -0500 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-ext12.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id lA784u2n030892; Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:05:06 +0200 Received: from esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.33]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:04:55 +0200 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:04:55 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [IPsec] Re: draft-lepinski-dh-groups-02 Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:04:54 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47307D27.1030001@bbn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPsec] Re: draft-lepinski-dh-groups-02 Thread-Index: AcggkHq4EA41KTynSn2tcP1E4WoU6AAg8t3w References: <47307D27.1030001@bbn.com> From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2007 08:04:55.0509 (UTC) FILETIME=[E204D850:01C82114] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, tim.polk@nist.gov, kent@bbn.com X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: ,

Subject:	I-D Action:draft-sheffer-ipsec-failover-01.txt
Date:	Thu, 15 Nov 2007 04:50:02 -0500
From:	Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Reply-To:	internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:	i-d-announce@ietf.org