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10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
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60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

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------=_NextPart_000_26CC6F_01C834F7.26C91D20-- From Perttu_Reyna@scarv.com Sun Dec 02 14:43:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyujI-0007YY-EZ for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:43:52 -0500 Received: from p508308ac.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.131.8.172]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyujF-0004Ze-Tz for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:43:50 -0500 Received: from a400 by scarv.com with ASMTP id 0173307D for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:43:55 +0100 Received: from a400 ([140.189.17.149]) by scarv.com with ESMTP id 713477849E22 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:43:55 +0100 Message-ID: <9FBFAC5D.415E0DA3@scarv.com> Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:43:38 +0100 From: "Perttu Reyna" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: meditiat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 are you the next man in the world to get super sized in the pants? http://www.occyria.com/ From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 03 07:41:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzAbW-0003uV-69; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:40:54 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IzAbV-0003uP-59 for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:40:53 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzAbU-0003uE-Nq for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:40:52 -0500 Received: from mail4-out.unitn.it ([193.205.206.45]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzAbS-0001sH-R4 for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:40:51 -0500 Received: from mail4-out.unitn.it (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail4-out.unitn.it (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 382ED153560; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:40:46 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1cdce2d-aa6eabb000000adb-20-4753f94d5b26 Received: from disi.unitn.it (brenta.dit.unitn.it [193.205.194.4]) by mail4-out.unitn.it (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id D3BE6EAC88; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:40:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from [193.205.213.239] ([193.205.213.239]) (authenticated bits=0) by disi.unitn.it (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB3CeKYZ023036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:40:44 +0100 Message-ID: <4753F933.8060505@dit.unitn.it> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:40:19 +0100 From: Csaba Kiraly User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Kent Subject: Re: [IPsec] Re: ESP's use of dummy packets? References: <474F3F37.1030905@dit.unitn.it> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Cc: ipsec@ietf.org, Joy Latten X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Dear Stephan, >> ... >> I would also like to take the occasion to say that we have made some >> efforts to extend the Traffic Flow Confidentiality capabilities of >> IPsec. In our research we were trying to create a separate TFC >> security protocol, which goes beyond the limited TFC capabilities >> that were already included in ESPv3. We have included support for >> size modifications such as padding (with explicit payload size >> information), fragmentation and aggregation. It also supports packet >> re-timing, as well as dummy generation and discarding. Finally, the >> choice of the masking algorithm combining one or more of these basic >> tools is handled separately. > > Since 4303 already provides for arbitrary padding, and efficient dummy > packet generation and discarding, presumably the additional features > to which you refer are a management interface to control these extant > features, plus packet re-timing and the fragmentation and aggregation > features that help optimize channel bandwidth? > You have summarized it perfectly, but let me put some more detail behind some of these points. In our experimental protocol, in order to to support padding, we have opted for having a header field containing explicitly the payload length. While ESP do support arbitrary padding, it does not support it in every situation. As it is discussed in your RFC, padding only works if the upper protocol layer knows what to do when it receives a larger PDU, i.e. the PDU should contain a length indicator, and processing should not throw an error when the received PDU is longer then expected. Padding still works in tunnel mode, for several other protocols, and for the remaining ones there is a workaround by forcing an extra internal IP header through tunnel mode operation. While this choice is absolutely reasonable if TFC is a small addition, in our case, where we were looking specifically at a complete TFC solution, our priority was to make the protocol as generic as possible, thus we have made the payload length field explicit. This is really just a small difference, nothing serious. More interesting is fragmentation support, which seems to make a huge difference against a number of traffic analysis methods. It is not just bandwidth optimization, but much more. First of all, it can considerably change packet count, already fooling several of the analysis methods in literature nowadays. This is achieved without adding much overhead, as it would happen if we use dummies with the same scope. More precisely, overhead in bytes in traded for increased latency and decreased reliability (due to the usual one fragment dropped -> whole packet lost problem). Second, fragmentation also gives us an unimpeded choice of masked traffic pattern. There is no necessity anymore to pad all packets to the MTU just to hide large ones as well. Aggregation simply complements fragmentation, giving us bandwidth optimization and changes in packet count. It is also worth noting that aggregation is based on the payload length field, therefore it only requires a one bit flag in the header (the flag specifies whether padding or another payload follows). Some attacks (e.g. website fingerprinting, device fingerprinting) show that timing could be needed in some cases as well. Of course, like with dummy, timing should only be used if the scenario requires it. As far as management is concerned, we are experimenting with different masking algorithms. We are trying to figure out the protection performance trade-off of different algorithms, as well as the right way (the right set of parameters) to describe the algorithms in a SA. Since our project is on privacy, we are evaluating TFC in cases like protection against website fingerprinting attacks, against traffic classification, or the use of TFC in low-latency anonymization networks. It is absolutely not trivial how the description of different algorithms should go, at least it is hard to address it from a theoretical point of view. Many of the masking strategies can be decoupled into a timing strategy, a packet size strategy and a dummy strategy. Tools (padding, fragmentation, aggregation) can be turned on/off. Other strategies are more complex, and cannot be decoupled this way. We are still working on this, looking at deterministic and randomized strategies, at dependence between the masked and the original pattern in time and size domains, etc. Of course any ideas are highly welcomed! Csaba _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 03 12:53:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzFTS-0000Wf-O1; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:52:54 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IzFTR-0000WW-6k for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:52:53 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzFTQ-0000WL-TB for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:52:52 -0500 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzFTQ-0004eo-G8 for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:52:52 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Dec 2007 17:52:51 -0000 Received: from dhcp-16ce.ietf70.org (EHLO [130.129.22.206]) [130.129.22.206] by mail.gmx.net (mp038) with SMTP; 03 Dec 2007 18:52:51 +0100 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+KqBAxLpeK6KwdEq/WtlQGY5NeSFeDHySa9NjTxz eKdJvO8u2QpzFX Message-ID: <47544275.9050803@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:52:53 +0100 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipsec@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Subject: [IPsec] iFARE Bar-BOF X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, I would like to invite you to join the iFARE Bar-BOF on Tuesday evening. We will meet in front on the IETF registration desk at 8pm. More information about IPsec FAilover and REdundancy (iFare) can be found here: http://www.tschofenig.com/twiki/bin/view/IFare/WebHome Ciao Hannes PS: I will put information about the meeting room to the above-listed webpage once we got it. _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 03 13:13:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzFnS-0004qI-1z; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:13:34 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IzFOV-0000UI-BZ for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:47:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzFOV-0000U6-1t for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:47:47 -0500 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzFOU-00047C-Gp for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:47:47 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Dec 2007 17:47:45 -0000 Received: from dhcp-16ce.ietf70.org (EHLO [130.129.22.206]) [130.129.22.206] by mail.gmx.net (mp048) with SMTP; 03 Dec 2007 18:47:45 +0100 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18/NndA1AY/Up7LsnTFTwsIuv4vWrMcyje2FNvCbd Pp9kPEdIHKrZC4 Message-ID: <47544143.3000309@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:47:47 +0100 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipsec@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:13:32 -0500 Subject: [IPsec] iFARE Bar-BOF X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, I would like to invite you to join the iFARE Bar-BOF on Tuesday evening. We will meet in front on the IETF registration desk at 8pm. More information about IPsec FAilover and REdundancy (iFare) can be found here: http://www.tschofenig.com/twiki/bin/view/IFare/WebHome Ciao Hannes PS: I will put information about the meeting room to the above-listed webpage once we got it. _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From Julle570@asctraining.net Mon Dec 03 14:05:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzGbj-0001HB-0N for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:05:31 -0500 Received: from cpc1-pete1-0-0-cust467.pete.cable.ntl.com ([81.109.65.212]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzGbi-0005Uk-FA for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:05:30 -0500 Received: from dell4100 ([105.153.83.175] helo=dell4100) by [81.109.65.212] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1mZgmC-000LWJ-tf for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:06:05 -0000 Message-ID: <3487D063.8DE2A167@asctraining.net> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:05:37 -0000 From: "Julle miltenberger" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: rytnevea Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080200080807040800060505" X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 --------------080200080807040800060505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i got no probs taking the girls home now, sometimes more than 1 http://www.colisiem.com/ --------------080200080807040800060505 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i got no probs taking the girls home now, sometimes more than 1 http://www.colisiem.com/
--------------080200080807040800060505-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 04 17:01:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzfpU-0003I6-AU; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:01:24 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IzfpT-0003Hx-1D for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:01:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzfpS-0003H7-Kq for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:01:22 -0500 Received: from emx2.cybertrust.com ([64.209.238.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzfpQ-0007Sw-VV for ipsec@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:01:22 -0500 Received: by emx2.cybertrust.com (ESMTP, from userid 414) id 2C48C1B1; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:01:20 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:01:19 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ICSA Labs IKEv2 Bakeoff IV Thread-Index: Acg2wTMCxDI5v9psTDi2j/lcUGgcWA== From: "Snyder, Guy" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 202a3ece0492a8c7e7c8672d5214398f Subject: [IPsec] ICSA Labs IKEv2 Bakeoff IV X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0494439872==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0494439872== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C836C1.339D79D8" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C836C1.339D79D8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attendees from the last bakeoff and our IPSec Consortium have shown interest in ICSA Labs conducting another bakeoff in 2008. I am sending this notice to this list to ensure that others in the IPsec community are aware of the plans for another IKEv2 Interoperability Workshop. At the last bakeoff I promised to solicit interest in a bakeoff for 2008. Plans currently are targeting the April/May 2008 timeframe. This timeframe is from feedback from our IPSec Consortium and attendees from the last bakeoff. Can you provide feedback to me as to your interest level, preferred timeframe, testing content and preferred location? I expect the location to be centrally located in the US based on current feedback. =20 We also discussed different testing options such as normal (same as in the past with slightly different test suites), IPv6 only, MOBIKE, and carrier/mobile specific. Oddly enough, after conducting three previous bakeoffs there are still requests to include "basic" IKEv2 tests. Please provide your feedback on these testing options also. =20 -- Guy Snyder, VPN Programs Manager -- ICSA Labs =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C836C1.339D79D8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Attendees from the last = bakeoff and our IPSec Consortium have shown interest in ICSA Labs conducting another bakeoff in 2008.  I am sending this notice to this list to ensure = that others in the IPsec community are aware of the plans for another IKEv2 Interoperability Workshop.  At the last bakeoff I promised to = solicit interest in a bakeoff for 2008.  Plans currently are targeting the April/May 2008 timeframe.  This timeframe is from feedback from our = IPSec Consortium and attendees from the last bakeoff.  Can you provide = feedback to me as to your interest level, preferred timeframe, testing content = and preferred location?  I expect the location to be centrally located = in the US = based on current feedback.

 

We also discussed different = testing options such as normal (same as in the past with slightly different test = suites), IPv6 only, MOBIKE, and carrier/mobile specific.  Oddly enough, after = conducting three previous bakeoffs there are still requests to include = “basic” IKEv2 tests.  Please provide your feedback on these testing options = also.

 

-- Guy Snyder, VPN Programs = Manager

-- ICSA = Labs

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C836C1.339D79D8-- --===============0494439872== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0494439872==-- From BrookeexertBrewster@investmentmap.com Wed Dec 05 08:38:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzuSm-0003Ae-Eq; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:38:56 -0500 Received: from [190.78.113.3] (helo=sistemas05) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzuSm-0001aX-1b; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:38:56 -0500 Received: from aminobenzoic by investmentmap.com with SMTP id aKvflRoQgA for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:31:34 +0400 From: "Robyn Nicholas" To: , Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzxIM-0002fX-41; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:40:22 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IzxIL-0002cX-Ay for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:40:21 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzxIK-0002Zg-U9 for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:40:20 -0500 Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.233]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzxII-0002QY-KB for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:40:20 -0500 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id n1so2621422nzf for ; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:40:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Orp0yL9icvkOvz5DpsqkdoqmhsbJtkGHaCpPH6I7B5c=; b=DY9RZLy8QuknGVWnSbMXuoe9VI5b1dSm0hDOOsNOa4t0ls20VSSNEKCs4OH37+lexn0MuF9sZ8ke35j6jxj3CLdi4xtST6TzgSv3loFcZptHfwjunqttppRaosMYz/9gCysxi+VjkJoWmR2bGo3wKYWbgmVOt3Q9/cmYVQ40Ak0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=UXZzw1DBhH2A9UCxkF191zIeizGDk60Sg2A58Lx4xw6JsKbTSxECCR8Lq8p1Bm8el8IxZsa2adaYK0BynuPBvlCLuNmQlu0JR6By8HNp9b0wmDce9rnwJmOPaLyr+MP9UDNLgK6vJOg7wxhC9Mj7TkIq+6WhbUwP5Ok/PJw7tvo= Received: by 10.142.106.18 with SMTP id e18mr1057240wfc.1196872817012; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.117.20 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:40:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <18a603a60712050840t59b19641l2e40113ef72ca24c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:40:16 +0100 From: "Pars Mutaf" To: ipsec@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <18a603a60711161050i3f8130c2q1316a2876472fb16@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <18a603a60711161050i3f8130c2q1316a2876472fb16@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f402fbded34a6df606921f56b8bdd8 Subject: [IPsec] Re: Dictionary-based key exchange (for mobile users) X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Hello, An implementation can be found below (using TCP transport because future extension is possible for exchanging a large dictionary). It supports GTK word completion with mouse and keyboard. http://code.google.com/p/vke/ Michael Richardson and Nicolas Williams suggested changing the name to something like Verbal Key Exchange. Thanks, pars On Nov 16, 2007 7:50 PM, Pars Mutaf wrote: > Hello, > I would very much appreciate some feedback on the following > draft (very short). Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > pars > > --------cut here --------- > > > > > Network Working Group P. Mutaf > Internet-Draft Institut National des > Telecommunications > Expires: May 19, 2008 November 16, 2007 > > > Dictionary-based Key Exchange > draft-mutaf-dke-00.txt > > Status of this Memo > > By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any > applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware > have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes > aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. > > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- > Drafts. > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > > The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. > > The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. > > This Internet-Draft will expire on May 19, 2008. > > Copyright Notice > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > Abstract > > A dictionary-based key exchange protocol is proposed. Two mobile > host users that physically meet each other can use this protocol to > authenticate each other. PKI nor certificates are not needed. > > > > > > > > > Mutaf Expires May 19, 2008 [Page 1] > > Internet-Draft Dictionary-based Key Exchange November 2007 > > > Table of Contents > > 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 > 2. Protocol description . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 > 3. Security considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 > 4. IANA considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 > 5. Conclusion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 > 6. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 > Author's Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 > Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mutaf Expires May 19, 2008 [Page 2] > > Internet-Draft Dictionary-based Key Exchange November 2007 > > > 1. Introduction > > A dictionary-based key exchange protocol is proposed. Two mobile > host users that physically meet each other can use this protocol to > authenticate each other. PKI nor certificates are not needed. > > > 2. Protocol description > > The proposed protocol is briefly described below: > > > Initiator MitM Responder > > Request RSA public key PK > -----------------------------------------------> > PK > | <-------------------------------------------- > T | > | <========== Read 40-bit fingerprint ============ > human verification > of 40-bit fingerprint > > -----------------{secret key}PK ---------------> > > where > PK: a one time RSA public key > ===: voice channel, i.e. responder user tells the fingerprint > to initiator user through oral communication. > MitM: Man in the Middle > > Figure 1 > > The octets of the fingerprint will typically be mapped to a > dictionary of easy to pronounce and type well-known words. For > example, with a dictionary containing 256 words, each octet can be > represented with one word in the dictionary, and only 40/8=5 words > need to be checked. > > In T time units, MitM has to find a PK' giving the same fingerprint > as PK, and returned it to the initiator before PK. 2^40 is large > enough to assume that the attacker cannot reasonably succeed. > > > 3. Security considerations > > TBD. > > > > > Mutaf Expires May 19, 2008 [Page 3] > > Internet-Draft Dictionary-based Key Exchange November 2007 > > > 4. IANA considerations > > None. > > > 5. Conclusion > > This document described a dictionary-based key exchange protocol. > The idea of human verification of a public key fingerprint is not > new. A 40-bit fingerprint is normally too short and considered > insecure (See for example [SB].). In the proposed protocol, however, > the fingerprint is used to authenticate a one-time public key that is > used to exchange a secret key and possibly other material. > > > 6. Informative References > > [SB] McCune, J. and J. McCune, "Seeing is Believing", Proceedings of > the IEEE Symposium on Security and Privacy, Oakland, CA. May > 2005. > > > Author's Address > > Pars Mutaf > Institut National des Telecommunications > > Email: pars.mutaf@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mutaf Expires May 19, 2008 [Page 4] > > Internet-Draft Dictionary-based Key Exchange November 2007 > > > Full Copyright Statement > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions > contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors > retain all their rights. > > This document and the information contained herein are provided on an > "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS > OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND > THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS > OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF > THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED > WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. > > > Intellectual Property > > The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any > Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to > pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in > this document or the extent to which any license under such rights > might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has > made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information > on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be > found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. > > Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any > assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an > attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of > such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this > specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at > http://www.ietf.org/ipr. > > The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any > copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary > rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement > this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at > ietf-ipr@ietf.org. > > > Acknowledgment > > Funding for the RFC Editor function is provided by the IETF > Administrative Support Activity (IASA). > > > > > > Mutaf Expires May 19, 2008 [Page 5] > > _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec From SaundrajacobsMcnally@davidsuzuki.org Wed Dec 05 11:56:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzxY9-0006b4-A9; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:56:41 -0500 Received: from static-adsl201-232-12-161.epm.net.co ([201.232.12.161] helo=cyber8) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzxY8-0008HR-RX; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:56:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host72089990.davidsuzuki.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id oB4yGw4160.191184.QMZ.t4c.9021853287710 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:57:28 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Hillary Eason" To: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_B529_01C8375F.F3063430-- From BeverleymexicanGoldsmith@annapolis.net Wed Dec 05 13:38:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izz8f-0002X5-Ai; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:38:29 -0500 Received: from 180-204-126-200.fibertel.com.ar ([200.126.204.180] helo=maldo) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izz8e-0001R0-UA; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:38:29 -0500 Received: from symbiosis by annapolis.net with SMTP id vZYDaBpInU for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:37:05 +0300 From: "Louella Sams" To: Cc: , Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01jH-0004Sa-IB; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:24:27 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J01jF-0004S5-OF for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:24:25 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01jF-0004Ro-Dr for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:24:25 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01jF-0000rj-4L for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:24:25 -0500 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.154.35]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id lB5LOOCe016657 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:24:24 GMT Received: from everywhere.sfbay.sun.com ([10.7.251.255]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id lB5LONIs021808 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:24:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from everywhere.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by everywhere.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lB5LGrT7001877 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:16:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (from danmcd@localhost) by everywhere.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id lB5LGrb5001876 for ipsec@ietf.org; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:16:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: everywhere.sfbay.sun.com: danmcd set sender to danmcd@sun.com using -f Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:16:53 -0500 From: Dan McDonald To: ipsec@ietf.org Message-ID: <20071205211653.GB1785@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Solaris Networking & Security User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Subject: [IPsec] Anyone in Vancouver have SHA-{256, 384, 512} for IKEv1 and AH/ESP handy? X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danmcd@sun.com List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org I want to run some quick interoperability with IKEv1 + AH or ESP using the SHA-2 algorithms. Please unicast-reply if you can help. 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------=_NextPart_000_148A7_01C837E6.4A34A8F0-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 05:36:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0E5E-0006PV-3y; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:35:56 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0E5D-0006PN-1A for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:35:55 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0E5B-0006Ls-Tu for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:35:54 -0500 Received: from michael.checkpoint.com ([194.29.32.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0E5A-0004z2-Rm for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:35:53 -0500 Received: from MBP.checkpoint.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by michael.checkpoint.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id lB6AZjOY023150; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:35:45 +0200 (IST) Message-Id: <97C302C8-238E-4E1F-A721-25E9C204CCEB@checkpoint.com> From: Yoav Nir To: "Snyder, Guy" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [IPsec] ICSA Labs IKEv2 Bakeoff IV Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:35:40 +0200 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 48472a944c87678fcfe8db15ffecdfff Cc: ipsec@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1607815519==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org --===============1607815519== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2--413191908 --Apple-Mail-2--413191908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't think the requests for "basic" IKEv2 tests are so odd. In the =20= last bakeoff there were still problems getting the basic stuff to =20 work. We had IKE sessions torn down because one peer did not =20 understand the NAT-D payloads, to name but one example. OTOH doing bakeoff after bakeoff with the same tests does mean that we =20= get very little new relevant information. I think we've moved beyond =20= conflicting interpretations of the RFC text, and the problems we see =20 now are simply bugs. That could be caused by the fact that most =20 vendors still don't have IKEv2-enabled products on the market, so what =20= we see in the bakeoffs are lab projects. I don't know if this will =20 change significantly by May. What I would like to see is a greater focus on the remote access case, =20= where products are either "clients" or "gateways" (I know these are =20 not IPsec terms, but they're so useful), and they should be able to =20 connect in difficult situations - behind NAT devices, for example, and =20= should work with EAP servers (RADIUS) as well as PSK and certificates. On Dec 5, 2007, at 12:01 AM, Snyder, Guy wrote: > Attendees from the last bakeoff and our IPSec Consortium have shown =20= > interest in ICSA Labs conducting another bakeoff in 2008. I am =20 > sending this notice to this list to ensure that others in the IPsec =20= > community are aware of the plans for another IKEv2 Interoperability =20= > Workshop. At the last bakeoff I promised to solicit interest in a =20 > bakeoff for 2008. Plans currently are targeting the April/May 2008 =20= > timeframe. This timeframe is from feedback from our IPSec =20 > Consortium and attendees from the last bakeoff. Can you provide =20 > feedback to me as to your interest level, preferred timeframe, =20 > testing content and preferred location? I expect the location to be =20= > centrally located in theUS based on current feedback. > > We also discussed different testing options such as normal (same as =20= > in the past with slightly different test suites), IPv6 only, MOBIKE, =20= > and carrier/mobile specific. Oddly enough, after conducting three =20 > previous bakeoffs there are still requests to include =93basic=94 = IKEv2 =20 > tests. Please provide your feedback on these testing options also. > > -- Guy Snyder, VPN Programs Manager > -- ICSA Labs > > > > > Scanned by Check Point Total Security Gateway. > > _______________________________________________ > IPsec mailing list > IPsec@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --Apple-Mail-2--413191908 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't think the requests for = "basic" IKEv2 tests are so odd.  In the last bakeoff there were = still problems getting the basic stuff to work. We had IKE sessions torn = down because one peer did not understand the NAT-D payloads, to name but = one example.

OTOH = doing bakeoff after bakeoff with the same tests does mean that we get = very little new relevant information.  I think we've moved beyond = conflicting interpretations of the RFC text, and the problems we see now = are simply bugs. That could be caused by the fact that most vendors = still don't have IKEv2-enabled products on the market, so what we see in = the bakeoffs are lab projects.  I don't know if this will change = significantly by May.

What I would like to see = is a greater focus on the remote access case, where products are either = "clients" or "gateways" (I know these are not IPsec terms, but they're = so useful), and they should be able to connect in difficult situations - = behind NAT devices, for example, and should work with EAP servers = (RADIUS) as well as PSK and certificates.

On Dec 5, 2007, = at 12:01 AM, Snyder, Guy wrote:

US based on current = feedback.
We = also discussed different testing options such as normal (same as in the = past with slightly different test suites), IPv6 only, MOBIKE, and = carrier/mobile specific.  Oddly enough, after conducting three = previous bakeoffs there are still requests to include =93basic=94 IKEv2 = tests.  Please provide your feedback on these testing options = also.
 Guy Snyder, VPN Programs = Manager
-- = ICSA Labs
 

_____________________= __________________________
IPsec mailing list
IPsec@ietf.org
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0E8q-0005X6-Da; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:39:40 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0E8o-0005Wv-R5 for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:39:38 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0E8o-0005Wn-Ew for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:39:38 -0500 Received: from michael.checkpoint.com ([194.29.32.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0E8n-00058a-7H for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:39:38 -0500 Received: from MBP.checkpoint.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by michael.checkpoint.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id lB6AdeOY026101 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:39:40 +0200 (IST) Message-Id: From: Yoav Nir To: ipsec@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <473403.13247.qm@web26612.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [IPsec] IKEv2 - possible attack from legitimate node(s)? Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:39:35 +0200 References: <473403.13247.qm@web26612.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f0b5a4216bfa030ed8a6f68d1833f8ae X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0096413218==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org --===============0096413218== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--412956594 --Apple-Mail-3--412956594 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi. This is for all the group. Do you think there can be interest in a draft for implementing hash cookies as a means of making DDoS attacks against IKE harder? There are some patents and patent applications that describe similar mechanisms for different purposes (anti-spam), so we may not be able to go beyond "Experimental", but I think it's worth it. What do you think? On Nov 29, 2007, at 12:54 AM, Hisyam F. wrote: > Hi Yoav, > > Thanks for the reply. Since the attack from legitimate node(s) is > feasible, I agree on your statement that each individual (recepient) > should implements defensive mechanism against such attack. > > Nevertheless, I would like to ask your opinion regarding the IKEv2 > message exchange. As stated in your previous reply, there were > several works have been done in combating DoS i.e., HASH cookie > mechanism etc. It seems that in order to defeat DoS attack, each > technique in literature suggests the initiator to authenticate him/ > herself (prove the identity) to the respective responder by > returning the correct cookie. However, I think that this > verification method is efficient to certain degrees subject to the > assumption that an attack is mounted from malicious attacker with > spoofed ID. Since this is not applicable to DDoS as each nodes can > have legitimate ID, does it means it is impossible (I hope not) for > us to propose a better approach for IKEv2? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Yoav Nir > To: Hisyam F. ; ipsec@ietf.org > Sent: Thursday, 29 November, 2007 12:53:14 AM > Subject: Re: [IPsec] IKEv2 - possible attack from legitimate node(s)? > > Hi Hisyam. > > An attack like this is very feasible, and the IKEv2 protocol does > not have any protection against it. Individual implementations could > have some protections, such as limiting the amount of half-open SAs > from a particular IP address, or limiting the amount of IKE SAs from > a particular peer. > > Years ago, there were some proposals for securing against a DoS > attack by, for example replacing the cookie with a hash of the > cookie and a partial pre-image (say, all the cookie save the last 32 > bits). This would force the client to brute-force the cookie > (taking on average 2^31 hash operations), by levying a 1-CPU-second > "tax" on each connecting client. This proposal died, I think > because of all kinds of patents surrounding such technology. > > > On Nov 27, 2007, at 6:07 AM, Hisyam F. wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm relatively new to IPsec. I would like to ask regarding the DoS >> protection in IPsec. Based on the IKEv2 standard, there is an anti- >> clogging mechanism via "cookie" notification in Notify payload >> which prevent DoS attack on message echange (i.e.,phase 1). It >> seems that the DoS attack is assumed to have or mounted from spoof >> IP address. >> >> In that sense, I would like to know whether IPsec (especially the >> IKEv2) contains any protection from legitimate node(s) (as an >> example DDoS)? In addition, is this type of attack feasible on IKEv2? >> >> Thanks. >> >> For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good >> this month. >> >> Scanned by Check Point Total Security Gateway. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IPsec mailing list >> IPsec@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec > > > > For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good > this month. > > Scanned by Check Point Total Security Gateway. > --Apple-Mail-3--412956594 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi.  This is for all the = group.

Do you = think there can be interest in a draft for implementing hash cookies as = a means of making DDoS attacks against IKE harder? 

There are some patents and = patent applications that describe similar mechanisms for different = purposes (anti-spam), so we may not be able to go beyond "Experimental", = but I think it's worth it.

What do you = think?

On Nov 29, 2007, at 12:54 AM, Hisyam F. = wrote:

Hi Yoav,
 
Thanks for the reply. Since the attack from legitimate node(s) is = feasible, I agree on your statement that each individual = (recepient) should implements defensive mechanism against such = attack.
 
Nevertheless, I would like to ask your opinion regarding the = IKEv2 message exchange. As stated in your previous reply, there = were several works have been done in combating DoS i.e., HASH = cookie mechanism etc. It seems that in order to defeat DoS attack, = each technique in literature suggests the initiator to authenticate = him/herself (prove the identity) to the respective responder by = returning the correct cookie. However, I think that this verification = method is efficient to certain degrees subject to the = assumption that an attack is mounted from malicious attacker = with spoofed ID. Since this is not applicable to DDoS  as each = nodes can have legitimate ID, does it means it is impossible (I = hope not) for us to propose a better approach for = IKEv2?     

----- Original Message ----
From: Yoav Nir <ynir@checkpoint.com>
To: = Hisyam F. <f_hisyam@yahoo.co.uk>; ipsec@ietf.org
Sent: Thursday, 29 = November, 2007 12:53:14 AM
Subject: Re: [IPsec] IKEv2 - possible = attack from legitimate node(s)?

Hi Hisyam.

An attack = like this is very feasible, and the IKEv2 protocol does not have any = protection against it. Individual implementations could have some = protections, such as limiting the amount of half-open SAs from a = particular IP address, or limiting the amount of IKE SAs from a = particular peer.

Years ago, = there were some proposals for securing against a DoS attack by, for = example replacing the cookie with a hash of the cookie and a partial = pre-image (say, all the cookie save the last 32 bits).  This would = force the client to brute-force the cookie (taking on average 2^31 hash = operations), by levying a 1-CPU-second "tax" on each connecting client. =  This proposal died, I think because of all kinds of patents = surrounding such technology.


On Nov 27, 2007, at 6:07 AM, = Hisyam F. wrote:

Hi,
 
I'm = relatively new to IPsec. I would like to ask regarding the DoS = protection in IPsec. Based on the IKEv2 standard, there is an = anti-clogging mechanism via "cookie" notification in Notify payload = which prevent DoS attack on message echange (i.e.,phase 1). It = seems that the DoS attack is assumed to have or mounted from spoof IP = address.
 
In that sense, I would like to know whether IPsec = (especially the IKEv2) contains any protection from legitimate = node(s) (as an example DDoS)? In addition, is this type of attack = feasible on IKEv2?
 
Thanks.

For ideas on = reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. 

Scanned by Check = Point Total Security Gateway. 

_____________________= __________________________
IPsec mailing list
IPsec@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec

For ideas on reducing your carbon = footprint visit Yahoo! = For Good this = month. 

Scanned = by Check Point Total Security Gateway. 


= --Apple-Mail-3--412956594-- --===============0096413218== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0096413218==-- From AnnmarieoxidantBliss@igougo.com Thu Dec 06 05:57:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0EPk-0005XZ-Bt; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:57:09 -0500 Received: from 84.125.152.155.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.125.152.155] helo=pc) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0EPj-0005rK-Tu; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:57:08 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host92455006.igougo.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id x1Bxn1jO09.932946.yIs.FX4.2186210042540 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:56:56 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Casandra Guevara" To: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_2EF4E_01C838DE.766A1CE0-- From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 13:43:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Lgg-0000Po-EW; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:43:06 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Lgf-0000Pa-9E for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:43:05 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Lge-0000PS-VX for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:43:04 -0500 Received: from [2001:1bc8:100d::2] (helo=mail.kivinen.iki.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Lgd-0006sY-JJ for ipsec@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:43:04 -0500 Received: from fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kivinen.iki.fi (8.13.8/8.12.10) with ESMTP id lB6IglsA004810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:42:47 +0200 (EET) Received: (from kivinen@localhost) by fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (8.13.8/8.12.11) id lB6IgdKn021163; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:42:39 +0200 (EET) X-Authentication-Warning: fireball.kivinen.iki.fi: kivinen set sender to kivinen@iki.fi using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18264.17055.267459.272412@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:42:39 +0200 From: Tero Kivinen To: ipsec@ietf.org, akato@po.ntts.co.jp, kanda.masayuki@lab.ntt.co.jp, iwata@cse.nagoya-u.ac.jp X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 21.4.1 X-Edit-Time: 9 min X-Total-Time: 8 min X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: b2809b6f39decc6de467dcf252f42af1 Cc: paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Subject: [IPsec] About new PRF algorithms (comments to draft-kato-ipsec-camellia-cmac96and128-01) X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org I read the draft-kato-ipsec-camellia-cmac96and128-01.txt and found one big issue in there. It copies the RFC4434 and RFC4615 mechanism of mixed fixed / variable length keys. Those documents are like they are because we messed up with them, I do not think we want to copy that kind of broken behavior any further. The new draft-hoffman-ikev2bis-02.txt actually removes the fixed length prf text from the IKEv2, and only says that it is used as special case for those two RFCs (RFC 4434, RFC 4615): from draft-hoffman-ikev2bis-02.txt: ... modulus. Ni and Nr are the nonces, stripped of any headers. For historical backwards-compatibility reasons, there are two PRFs that are treated specially in this calculation. If the negotiated PRF is AES-XCBC-PRF-128 [RFC4434] or AES-CMAC-PRF-128 [RFC4615], only the first 64 bits of Ni and the first 64 bits of Nr are used in the calculation. So I think we should change: > The Camellia-CMAC-96 and Camellia-CMAC-PRF-128 Algorithms and Its Use > with IPsec > draft-kato-ipsec-camellia-cmac96and128-01 ... > 5. Camellia-CMAC-PRF-128 > > The Camellia-CMAC-PRF-128 algorithm is identical to Camellia-CMAC > except that the 128-bit key length restriction is removed. > > IKEv2 [5] uses PRFs for multiple purposes, most notably for > generating keying material and authentication of the IKE_SA. The > IKEv2 specification differentiates between PRFs with fixed key sizes > and those with variable key sizes. > > When using Camellia-CMAC-PRF-128 as the PRF described in IKEv2, > Camellia-CMAC-PRF-128 is considered to take fixed size (16 octets) > keys for generating keying material but it takes variable key sizes > for authentication. > > That is, when generating keying material, "half the bits must come > from Ni and half from Nr, taking the first bits of each" as described > in IKEv2, section 2.14; but for authenticating with shared secrets > (IKEv2, section 2.16), the shared secret does not have to be 16 > octets and the length may vary. to: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. Camellia-CMAC-PRF-128 The Camellia-CMAC-PRF-128 algorithm is identical to Camellia-CMAC except that the 128-bit key length restriction is removed. IKEv2 [5] uses PRFs for multiple purposes, most notably for generating keying material and authentication of the IKE_SA. When using Camellia-CMAC-PRF-128 as the PRF described in IKEv2, Camellia-CMAC-PRF-128 is considered to take variable key lenght in all places, and the number of bits of keying material generated when new keys are generated is 128 bits (i.e. when generating keying material the length of SK_d, SK_pi, and SK_pr will be 128 bits). When generating SKEYSEED the full Ni and Nr are used as key for the PRF. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- As I think we do want to start using standard variable length PRF code and specification for all future PRFs. Here is also some small nits in the draft-kato-ipsec-camellia-cmac96and128-01.txt: > 1. Introduction ... > Since optimized source code is provided by several open source > lisences [21], Camellia is also adopted by several open source > projects(Openssl, FreeBSD, Linux and Gran Paradiso). Additional API ^ Missing space. > for Network Security Services (NSS) and IPsec stack of Linux and Free > BSD are prepared or working progress for release. Free BSD should be FreeBSD. > 10. References > 10.1. Normative > [1] National Institute of Standards and Technology, "Recommendation > for Block Cipher Modes of Operation:The CMAC Mode for > Autentication", Special Publication 800-38B, May 2005. > > [2] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement > Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. > > [3] Kent, S., "IP Authentication Header", RFC 4302, December 2005. > > [4] Kent, S., "IP Encapsulating Security Payload (ESP)", RFC 4303, > December 2005. > > [5] Kaufman, C., "Internet Key Exchange (IKEv2) Protocol", > RFC 4306, December 2005. > > [6] Thayer, R., Doraswamy, N., and R. Glenn, "IP Security Document > Roadmap", RFC 2411, November 1998. I do not think the roadmap document is really a normative reference. Also I am not sure if the RFC 4302, 4303 or 4306 need to be normative refence either, as you can implement Camellia-CMAC-96 and Camellia-CMAC-PRF-128 without reading or understanding those documents (you can most likely also use them in IPsec without reading those documents :). I would move all of those [3]-[6] to the informative refences. > [7] Matsui, M., Nakajima, J., and S. Moriai, "A Description of the > Camellia Encryption Algorithm", RFC 3713, April 2004. > > 10.2. Informative > > [8] Harkins, D. and D. Carrel, "The Internet Key Exchange (IKE)", > RFC 2409, November 1998. 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------=_NextPart_000_1D73D4_01C83A2B.5EDCEA00-- From RoyaljoelCantrell@mediamatters.org Sun Dec 09 08:10:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1LvV-0001sV-KZ; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 08:10:33 -0500 Received: from 233.171.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es ([87.218.171.233] helo=cacho) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1LvV-0004wW-8e; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 08:10:33 -0500 Received: from gather by mediamatters.org with SMTP id Ta4otQZLIB for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 07:10:21 +0600 From: "Kareem Crane" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1NP4-0006o4-Fl for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:45:10 -0500 Received: from [77.64.144.39] (helo=[77.64.144.39]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1NP3-0007dd-W8 for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:45:10 -0500 Received: from BetarooM by larreta.delaire.com with ASMTP id 01C15B0D for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:44:10 +0100 Received: from BetarooM ([187.197.190.120]) by larreta.delaire.com with ESMTP id 9A4CFEB8A511 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:44:10 +0100 Message-ID: <6B0A3837.3B0FD777@larreta.delaire.com> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:43:54 +0100 From: "Ludivine friesen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: agrostol Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 stretch her ass wide open with your new dick size http://ikogear.com/ From ipsec-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 10 05:59:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1gM7-0003xm-Qb; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:59:23 -0500 Received: from ipsec by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J1gM6-0003nD-E9 for ipsec-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:59:22 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1gM6-0003lH-1U for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:59:22 -0500 Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.55]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1gM5-00009h-2V for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:59:21 -0500 Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JST00KHEYHW8C@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:58:44 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.24]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JST00BNNYHOEZ@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:58:44 +0800 (CST) Received: from viveka ([10.18.5.81]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JST00KFHYHI30@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ipsec@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:58:36 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:28:30 +0530 From: vivek To: ipsec@ietf.org Message-id: <001b01c83b1b$9c85f680$5105120a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: Acg7G5kfN53FLTpQT7ugIz2rLp5sXQ== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8f374d0786b25a451ef87d82c076f593 Subject: [IPsec] Ikev1 and v2 pfkey X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: viveka@huawei.com List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0612363361==" Errors-To: ipsec-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0612363361== Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Xoh5IzE/RHPvqOi6gUbKyw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_Xoh5IzE/RHPvqOi6gUbKyw) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_9b1J8OWyPqIQmxXC8O4AOg)" --Boundary_(ID_9b1J8OWyPqIQmxXC8O4AOg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, I am trying to develop ikev2 component over an existing ikev1 component. Can you please suggest me what kind of pfkeyv2 framework to have to support both v1 and v2, whether to have two separate pfkey sockets or any other method to make use of the existing pfkey socket. Regards, Vivek **************************************************************************** ******************************************* This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! --Boundary_(ID_9b1J8OWyPqIQmxXC8O4AOg) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Glacier
Hi,
 
I am trying to develop ikev2 component over an existing ikev1 component.
Can you please suggest me what kind of pfkeyv2 framework to have to support both v1 and v2, whether to have two separate pfkey sockets or any other method to make use of the existing pfkey socket.
 
Regards,
Vivek

***********************************************************************************************************************

            This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!

 

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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec --===============0612363361==-- From robynrhys@mercury-spb.com Mon Dec 10 14:37:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1oRO-0004en-I6 for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:37:22 -0500 Received: from pa-217-129-48-48.netvisao.pt ([217.129.48.48]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1oRO-0005hi-0D for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:37:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c83b64$023e938e$e0222297@wejpedw> From: "bendix dina" To: "Aisha Sams" Subject: exclusive watches, brand name quality rolex Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:49:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Perfectly crafted luxury timepieces...the finest of products at the LOWEST prices!! http://legechemical.com/ From EileenwhoeverWelsh@livescience.com Mon Dec 10 20:27:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1tu0-0006kh-C2 for ipsec-archive@lists.ietf.org; 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Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
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10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
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