Subject: why i should like pibs

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:13:26 -0600

wearing my iesg hat but being just a stupid operator, i am trying to
understand the pib/mib controversy.  fyi, i currently use snmp heavily
for monitoring devices on my network.  i configure using large db-driven
code and spew text-based cli to the devices.

let's assume i want to take the leap to a binary, as opposed to textual,
configuration language.  i.e. for some reason(s) [which we will PLEASE
NOT discuss here] i decide to move from pushing text-based cli configs
out to pushing a binary format.

hence, i would have to push my vendors to implement snmp/cops writes for
all configuration aspects of all devices.  this would be big cost for
both me and for my vendors.

why would cops/pibs be significantly better (remember it has to replace
my current investment, so it can not be 'just as good') than snmp/mibs?

randy

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From: Jon Saperia <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:16:22 -0500

> my current investment, so it can not be 'just as good') than snmp/mibs?

Randy you may recall discussions on this topic several years ago and the
internet drafts published by various parties about the merits of a COPS versus
SNMP approach.  I co-authored one of those now expired drafts with Juergen.
Time and events have overtaken some of the material in the draft but here is a
URL to a site that has a post script version of the original ID that discusses
your questions.

http://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/vs/papers/policy-tr-00-02.ps.gz

Since publication of those early drafts, SNMPCONF has incorportated some of the
changes suggested and the COPS folks have made improvements in that approach as
well.

I suspect part of what you have to figure out in the context of your question
is: Is there an advantage that remains with a PIB approach, and if there is one
does it ofset the balance of the cost you point to. The data in the document
may be helpful. Further a read of the current SNMPCONF documents on the WG web
site may be helpful.

Even though there is probably duplication is the mail lists, I have copied the
SNMPCONF WG on this since it is relevant to the work that is taking place there.

/jon 
 ---- Jon Saperia

[email-masked]
Phone: 617-744-1079
Fax:   617-249-0874
http://www.jdscons.com

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:22 -0600

> There have been some informational responses with regard to the your
> question.

indeed.  all sorts of information :-).  (not to worry, i am quite thick
skinned as well as thick headed)

i am really trying to blank my mind to history etc., and take a raw look
at these things.  as i am an engineer not a marketeer, if i have to sell
it to the iesg/iab, i need to believe it.  and to believe it, i have to
try to understand it.  so the input is *very* much appreciated.

apologies for asking that the input be in email.  but it forces a record,
and the openness keeps people somewhat honest.  it also gives us an
opportunity to practice working politely despite disagreements.

it is hard to think deeply during ietf week.  over the next three weeks,
i have two 30+ hour plane rides and a bit of calm time, in which i hope
to read and think calmly.  thanks for your patience.

randy