From extest-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Wed Jan 1 06:03:26 2003 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA02613 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 06:03:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h01B6g221117 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 06:06:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 06:06:42 -0500 Message-Id: <200301011106.h01B6g221117@share.research.bell-labs.com> Subject: lists.bell-labs.com mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@lists.bell-labs.com To: iptel-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: extest-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: extest-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: extest@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your lists.bell-labs.com mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, iptel-request@lists.bell-labs.com) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@lists.bell-labs.com. Thanks! Passwords for iptel-archive@lists.ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- iptel@lists.bell-labs.com nexaew http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/options/iptel/iptel-archive%40lists.ietf.org From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Tue Jan 7 06:55:46 2003 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10415 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:55:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h07Bi6209405; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:44:06 -0500 Received: from crufty.research.bell-labs.com (crufty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.49]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h07Bhd209377 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:43:39 -0500 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com (H-135-104-27-211.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.27.211]) by crufty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h07BhXLI011849 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:43:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 348D4443A7; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:43:28 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: iptel@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E012C443A6 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:43:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h07BhPI89561 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay4.clb.oleane.net (relay4.clb.oleane.net [213.56.31.24]) by dusty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07BfroJ081806 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:41:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from oleane (upper-side.rain.fr [194.250.212.114]) by relay4.clb.oleane.net with SMTP id h07Bh9Dh031131 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:43:09 +0100 Message-ID: <01e301c2b643$324bfce0$0601a8c0@oleane.com> From: "Peter Lewis" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E0_01C2B64B.93B350C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [IPTEL] The International SIP 2003 Conference Sender: iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: iptel@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:52:03 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E0_01C2B64B.93B350C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Happy New Year and all the best for you and your family!=20 The International SIP 2003 Conference is going to take place in Paris in = one week, from the=20 14th to the 17th of January 03.=20 You can still register for the conference at: = http://www.upperside.fr/intersip03/sip03earlyreg.htm=20 ------=_NextPart_000_01E0_01C2B64B.93B350C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Happy New Year and all the best for you = and your=20 family!

The International SIP 2003=20 Conference is going to take place in Paris in one week, from = the=20
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You can still = register for=20 the conference at: http://www.= upperside.fr/intersip03/sip03earlyreg.htm=20
 
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_______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 14 07:25:20 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA22472 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:25:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0ECdSn25179 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:39:28 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0ECdRJ25176 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:39:27 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA22468 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:24:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0ECdAJ25161; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:39:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0ECc8J25106 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:38:08 -0500 Received: from mail1.telekom.de (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA22430 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:23:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from g9jbr.mgb01.telekom.de by G8SBV.dmz.telekom.de with ESMTP for iptel@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:26:49 +0100 Received: by G9JBR.mgb01.telekom.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:26:49 +0100 Message-Id: From: "Alexeitsev, D" To: iptel@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Iptel] Another approach for tel: URI definition Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:26:47 +0100 Hello All, Just some interesting considerations for the possible tel: URI scheme back to the 1996: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Axioms.html#relative Paragraph: "Hierarchies and Relative URIs" Greetings, Denis Alexeitsev _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 14 09:46:06 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25530 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:46:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0EF0Hr01638 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:00:17 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0EF0HJ01635 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:00:17 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25490 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:45:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0EF03J01587; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:00:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0EEvMJ01434 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:57:22 -0500 Received: from marionberry.cc.columbia.edu (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25443 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:42:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from cs.columbia.edu (nas-cbv-6-62-147-149-122.dial.proxad.net [62.147.149.122]) (user=hgs10 mech=PLAIN bits=0) by marionberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h0EEjxli014922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:46:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E242211.9060907@cs.columbia.edu> From: Henning Schulzrinne Organization: Columbia University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Alexeitsev, D" CC: iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Another approach for tel: URI definition References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:43:29 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the pointer. If only the hierarchy in phone numbers were as simple as the article makes it sound like... (In particular, given the 7 digit and 10-digit dialing plans in the US, it is highly dubious that this is useful to generate dialing strings.) Alexeitsev, D wrote: > Hello All, > > Just some interesting considerations for the possible tel: URI scheme back to the 1996: > > http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Axioms.html#relative > > Paragraph: "Hierarchies and Relative URIs" > > Greetings, > Denis Alexeitsev > _______________________________________________ > Iptel mailing list > Iptel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 14 11:28:22 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01932 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:28:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0EGgYS11334 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:42:34 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0EGgYJ11331 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:42:34 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01913 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:27:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0EGgFJ11289; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:42:15 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0EGe6J11148 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:40:06 -0500 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01634 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:25:23 -0500 (EST) From: Mpierce1@aol.com Received: from Mpierce1@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 7.7c.341e0f46 (25098); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:26:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7c.341e0f46.2b55944c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [Iptel] Another approach for tel: URI definition To: hgs@cs.columbia.edu, D.Alexeitsev@telekom.de CC: iptel@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_7c.341e0f46.2b55944c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP US sub 51 Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:26:52 EST --part1_7c.341e0f46.2b55944c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/14/2003 9:49:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, hgs@cs.columbia.edu writes: > Thanks for the pointer. If only the hierarchy in phone numbers were as > simple as the article makes it sound like... (In particular, given the 7 > digit and 10-digit dialing plans in the US, it is highly dubious that > this is useful to generate dialing strings.) > Yes, interesting stuff in the docuement pointed to. Guess at one time our numbering system (at least in the US) was hierarchical (based on geography), but we've managed to mess that up with our overlaying of area codes, 7 and 10 digit dialing, and local number portability, all in the name of forcing "local competition" on a market that doesn't need it. My opinions. Mike Pierce --part1_7c.341e0f46.2b55944c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/14/2003 9:49:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, hgs@cs.columbia.edu writes:


Thanks for the pointer. If only the hierarchy in phone numbers were as
simple as the article makes it sound like... (In particular, given the 7
digit and 10-digit dialing plans in the US, it is highly dubious that
this is useful to generate dialing strings.)


Yes, interesting stuff in the docuement pointed to. Guess at one time our numbering system (at least in the US) was hierarchical (based on geography), but we've managed to mess that up with our overlaying of area codes, 7 and 10 digit dialing, and local number portability, all in the name of forcing "local competition" on a market that doesn't need it.

My opinions.

Mike Pierce
--part1_7c.341e0f46.2b55944c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 14 11:57:10 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA03180 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:57:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0EHBM213809 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:11:22 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0EHBMJ13806 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:11:22 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA03172 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:56:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0EHB2J13792; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:11:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0EHAQJ13760 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:10:26 -0500 Received: from iris2.directnic.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA03159 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:55:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by iris2.directnic.com (iris/0.61:4706); 14 Jan 2003 16:59:03 +0000 Received: from [216.91.221.66] (HELO oemcomputer) (216.91.221.66) by iris1.directnic.com (iris/0.61:4706/relay) with SMTP id 4706 for iptel@ietf.org; 14 Jan 2003 16:58:57 +0000 From: "Thomas Dillingham" To: , , Cc: Subject: RE: [Iptel] Another approach for tel: URI definition Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2BBBB.EB107D00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <7c.341e0f46.2b55944c@aol.com> Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:58:49 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2BBBB.EB107D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually the hierarchy in the telephone numbers is that simple. A NPA/NNX can only exist at one C.O. The Area code system is somewhat blurred, but it is still, for the most part intact. The opinion that "Forced Competition" has caused this is an opinion that I do not agree with. The increase in available technology has caused an overwhelming number of new PSTN devices, i.e. Fax Machines, Modems, Cell Phones, pagers etc... Regardless of my opinion that fact remains that some areas require 10 digits and others 7digits, and in the USA this is something we must consider. Thomas Dillingham -----Original Message----- From: iptel-admin@ietf.org [mailto:iptel-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Mpierce1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 10:27 AM To: hgs@cs.columbia.edu; D.Alexeitsev@telekom.de Cc: iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Another approach for tel: URI definition In a message dated 1/14/2003 9:49:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, hgs@cs.columbia.edu writes: Thanks for the pointer. If only the hierarchy in phone numbers were as simple as the article makes it sound like... (In particular, given the 7 digit and 10-digit dialing plans in the US, it is highly dubious that this is useful to generate dialing strings.) Yes, interesting stuff in the docuement pointed to. Guess at one time our numbering system (at least in the US) was hierarchical (based on geography), but we've managed to mess that up with our overlaying of area codes, 7 and 10 digit dialing, and local number portability, all in the name of forcing "local competition" on a market that doesn't need it. My opinions. Mike Pierce ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2BBBB.EB107D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Actually the hierarchy in the telephone numbers is that = simple.  A=20 NPA/NNX can only exist at one C.O.  The Area code system is = somewhat=20 blurred, but it is still, for the most part intact.  The opinion = that=20 "Forced Competition" has caused this is an opinion that I do not agree=20 with.  The increase in available technology has caused an = overwhelming=20 number of new PSTN devices, i.e. Fax Machines, Modems, Cell Phones, = pagers=20 etc...  Regardless of my opinion that fact remains that some areas = require=20 10 digits and others 7digits, and in the USA this is something we must=20 consider.
 
Thomas=20 Dillingham
-----Original Message-----
From: = iptel-admin@ietf.org=20 [mailto:iptel-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of=20 Mpierce1@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 10:27=20 AM
To: hgs@cs.columbia.edu; = D.Alexeitsev@telekom.de
Cc:=20 iptel@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Iptel] Another approach for = tel: URI=20 definition

In a=20 message dated 1/14/2003 9:49:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, = hgs@cs.columbia.edu=20 writes:


Thanks for the pointer. If only the hierarchy in phone = numbers=20 were as
simple as the article makes it sound like... (In = particular,=20 given the 7
digit and 10-digit dialing plans in the US, it is = highly=20 dubious that
this is useful to generate dialing strings.)=20


Yes, interesting = stuff in the=20 docuement pointed to. Guess at one time our numbering system (at least = in the=20 US) was hierarchical (based on geography), but we've managed to mess = that up=20 with our overlaying of area codes, 7 and 10 digit dialing, and local = number=20 portability, all in the name of forcing "local competition" on a = market that=20 doesn't need it.

My opinions.

Mike Pierce=20
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2BBBB.EB107D00-- _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Jan 15 09:51:12 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28850 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:51:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0FF5q315530 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:05:52 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0FF5qJ15527 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:05:52 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28830 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:50:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0FF5BJ15491; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:05:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0FF4TJ15467 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:04:29 -0500 Received: from willow.neustar.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28820 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:49:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from stntimc1.va.neustar.com (stntimc1.va.neustar.com [10.31.13.11]) by willow.neustar.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0FEqe804457; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:52:40 GMT Received: by stntimc1.va.neustar.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:55:12 -0500 Message-ID: <25A36E32FDC7D511827600306E1C196201168074@CHLAEXCH1> From: "Yu, James" To: "'Mpierce1@aol.com'" Cc: iptel@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Iptel] Another approach for tel: URI definition MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C2BCA6.16360FF0" Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:55:04 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2BCA6.16360FF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, interesting stuff in the docuement pointed to. Guess at one time our numbering system (at least in the US) was hierarchical (based on geography), but we've managed to mess that up with our overlaying of area codes, 7 and 10 digit dialing, and local number portability, all in the name of forcing "local competition" on a market that doesn't need it. [Yu] Local number portability is useful. I have been with a wireless carrier for more than one year and can switch to another wireless carrier with a better rate plan. But I am not switching because I don't want to reprint my business cards and inform others about my number change. So local number portability not only encourages competition but also avoids the problems caused by the telephone number change. James ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2BCA6.16360FF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes, interesting stuff in the docuement pointed to. Guess at one time our numbering system (at least in the US) was hierarchical (based on geography), but we've managed to mess that up with our overlaying of area codes, 7 and 10 digit dialing, and local number portability, all in the name of forcing "local competition" on a market that doesn't need it.

[Yu]  Local number portability is useful.  I have been with a wireless carrier for more than one year and can switch to another wireless carrier with a better rate plan.  But I am not switching because I don't want to reprint my business cards and inform others about my number change.  So local number portability not only encourages competition but also avoids the problems caused by the telephone number change.
 
James
------_=_NextPart_001_01C2BCA6.16360FF0-- _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu Jan 16 14:57:10 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22307 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:57:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0GKCOD19487 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:12:24 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0GKCOJ19484 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:12:24 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22276 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:56:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0GKC6J19419; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:12:06 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0GKBHJ19363 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:11:17 -0500 Received: from mail3.dynamicsoft.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22243 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:55:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from dynamicsoft.com (dyn-tx-app-004.dfw.dynamicsoft.com [63.110.3.2]) by mail3.dynamicsoft.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h0GJwmYH002072; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:58:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E270EDC.6000606@dynamicsoft.com> From: Jonathan Rosenberg Organization: dynamicsoft User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mpierce1@aol.com CC: hgs@cs.columbia.edu, D.Alexeitsev@telekom.de, iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Another approach for tel: URI definition References: <7c.341e0f46.2b55944c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:58:20 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit URIs are only concerned about hierarchy of naming. Hierarchy of administrative ownership is irrelevant. Construction of dialing plans is also something separate (I thought we agreed that, no?). AFAIK, the construction of the NANP as a *naming mechanism* was, and still is, hierarchical. The value in the proposed syntax is that it would support the usage of relative URI references for tel URIs. Indeed, we use this all the time. It would mean that tel:./5050 would indeed represent tel://1/973/854/5050 when applied against the base URI tel://1/973/854, which represents the base URI for an enterprise using a PBX. -Jonathan R. Mpierce1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/14/2003 9:49:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, > hgs@cs.columbia.edu writes: > > >> Thanks for the pointer. If only the hierarchy in phone numbers were as >> simple as the article makes it sound like... (In particular, given the 7 >> digit and 10-digit dialing plans in the US, it is highly dubious that >> this is useful to generate dialing strings.) > > > > Yes, interesting stuff in the docuement pointed to. Guess at one time > our numbering system (at least in the US) was hierarchical (based on > geography), but we've managed to mess that up with our overlaying of > area codes, 7 and 10 digit dialing, and local number portability, all in > the name of forcing "local competition" on a market that doesn't need it. > > My opinions. > > Mike Pierce -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 72 Eagle Rock Ave. Chief Scientist First Floor dynamicsoft East Hanover, NJ 07936 jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050 http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000 http://www.dynamicsoft.com _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu Jan 16 15:08:05 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA22595 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:08:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0GKNK819998 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:23:20 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0GKNKJ19995 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:23:20 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA22576 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:07:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0GKN2J19948; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:23:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0GKMuJ19928 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:22:56 -0500 Received: from dewberry.cc.columbia.edu (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA22555 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:07:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from cs.columbia.edu (APh-Aug-102-2-1-12.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.40.12]) (user=hgs10 mech=PLAIN bits=0) by dewberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h0GKAQ26023583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:10:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E27111C.90003@cs.columbia.edu> From: Henning Schulzrinne Organization: Columbia University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Rosenberg CC: Mpierce1@aol.com, D.Alexeitsev@telekom.de, iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Another approach for tel: URI definition References: <7c.341e0f46.2b55944c@aol.com> <3E270EDC.6000606@dynamicsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:07:56 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree that as long as you use this strictly as an abbreviation, this can work. I'm not wedded to any particular syntax; is it worth breaking the existing base, if there is any? This would only help on web pages, if you have lots of phone numbers. In practical terms, while one can teach a modern browser to hand off to a specialty application for tel and other 'new' URI schemes, it is very unlikely that it would know anything about hierarchy and base URLs (which there aren't any, unlike for HTML pages retrieved via HTTP). Thus, the application would likely get tel:./5050, without any way of resolving this to the full URI. Indeed, the basic question is: what would be the base URI? In HTTP/HTML, this is clear, based on the URI used to retrieve the page or an explicit base URI HTML entry, even without explicit definition (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/links.html#resolving-relative-uris). In HTML with tel references, it's not clear how you'd define that and what would happen if you didn't. I doubt that is going to work. Jonathan Rosenberg wrote: > URIs are only concerned about hierarchy of naming. Hierarchy of > administrative ownership is irrelevant. Construction of dialing plans is > also something separate (I thought we agreed that, no?). AFAIK, the > construction of the NANP as a *naming mechanism* was, and still is, > hierarchical. > > The value in the proposed syntax is that it would support the usage of > relative URI references for tel URIs. Indeed, we use this all the time. > It would mean that tel:./5050 would indeed represent > tel://1/973/854/5050 when applied against the base URI tel://1/973/854, > which represents the base URI for an enterprise using a PBX. > > -Jonathan R. _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu Jan 16 19:31:54 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA27630 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:31:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0H0lEm04724 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:47:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0H0lEJ04721 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:47:14 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA27606 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0H0l3J04693; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:47:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0H0fsJ04531 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:41:54 -0500 Received: from mail3.dynamicsoft.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA27476 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:26:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from dynamicsoft.com (dyn-tx-app-004.dfw.dynamicsoft.com [63.110.3.2]) by mail3.dynamicsoft.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h0H0TKYH002441; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:29:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E274E50.10508@dynamicsoft.com> From: Jonathan Rosenberg Organization: dynamicsoft User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henning Schulzrinne CC: Mpierce1@aol.com, D.Alexeitsev@telekom.de, iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Another approach for tel: URI definition References: <7c.341e0f46.2b55944c@aol.com> <3E270EDC.6000606@dynamicsoft.com> <3E27111C.90003@cs.columbia.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:29:04 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wasn't proposing to use the format, I was merely arguing with the proposition that it was useless because of dialing plan variations or LNP. I agree that it is unlikely to work in web pages because there really is no concept of a base URI for the document. -Jonathan R. Henning Schulzrinne wrote: > I agree that as long as you use this strictly as an abbreviation, this > can work. > > I'm not wedded to any particular syntax; is it worth breaking the > existing base, if there is any? This would only help on web pages, if > you have lots of phone numbers. > > In practical terms, while one can teach a modern browser to hand off to > a specialty application for tel and other 'new' URI schemes, it is > very unlikely that it would know anything about hierarchy and base URLs > (which there aren't any, unlike for HTML pages retrieved via HTTP). > Thus, the application would likely get tel:./5050, without any way of > resolving this to the full URI. > > Indeed, the basic question is: what would be the base URI? In HTTP/HTML, > this is clear, based on the URI used to retrieve the page or an explicit > base URI HTML entry, even without explicit definition > (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/links.html#resolving-relative-uris). > In HTML with tel references, it's not clear how you'd define that and > what would happen if you didn't. I doubt that > > > > is going to work. > > Jonathan Rosenberg wrote: > >> URIs are only concerned about hierarchy of naming. Hierarchy of >> administrative ownership is irrelevant. Construction of dialing plans >> is also something separate (I thought we agreed that, no?). AFAIK, the >> construction of the NANP as a *naming mechanism* was, and still is, >> hierarchical. >> >> The value in the proposed syntax is that it would support the usage of >> relative URI references for tel URIs. Indeed, we use this all the >> time. It would mean that tel:./5050 would indeed represent >> tel://1/973/854/5050 when applied against the base URI >> tel://1/973/854, which represents the base URI for an enterprise using >> a PBX. >> >> -Jonathan R. > > -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 72 Eagle Rock Ave. Chief Scientist First Floor dynamicsoft East Hanover, NJ 07936 jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050 http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000 http://www.dynamicsoft.com _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu Jan 16 21:37:55 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00325 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:37:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0H2rI512402 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:53:18 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0H2rIJ12399 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:53:18 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00289 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:37:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0H2r4J12386; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:53:04 -0500 Received: from hanmir.com ([220.77.173.101]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0H2qYJ12367 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:52:35 -0500 Message-Id: <200301170252.h0H2qYJ12367@www1.ietf.org> From: ÇϹ«¾ð To: iptel@www1.ietf.org Reply-To: cantos1001@hanmir.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ks_c_5601-1987 Subject: [Iptel] °Ô¸£¸¶´½Áö¾Ð½½¸®ÆÛ°³¹ß(±¤°í) Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:52:35 -0500
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_______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 17 08:04:45 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21152 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:04:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0HDKK129441 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:20:20 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDKKJ29438 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:20:20 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21113 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:04:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDK7J29420; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:20:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDJqJ29375 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:19:52 -0500 Received: from dewberry.cc.columbia.edu (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21107; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:03:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from cs.columbia.edu (APh-Aug-102-2-1-12.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.40.12]) (user=hgs10 mech=PLAIN bits=0) by dewberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h0HD756V016195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:07:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> From: Henning Schulzrinne Organization: Columbia University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi CC: Christer Holmberg , sip@ietf.org, antti.vaha-sipila@nokia.com, iptel@ietf.org References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:04:35 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [This discussion should be on iptel, not sip.] Yes, it's a bug which crept in due to other revisions. It will be fixed in 08. jh@lohi.eng.song.fi wrote: > looks to me that the syntax has a bug, i.e., local numbers don't need > start with +. > > i have another question. why is context mandatory in local numbers? i > would like to make it optional and if it is missing, the context would > be derived from the from uri. How would it be uniquely and unambiguously derived? > > -- juha _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 17 08:12:38 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21437 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:12:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0HDSDP30031 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:28:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDSDJ30028 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:28:13 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21427 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:12:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDS2J29985; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:28:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDRAJ29927 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:27:10 -0500 Received: from lohi.eng.song.fi (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21391; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:11:03 -0500 (EST) From: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi Received: from harjus.eng.song.fi ([195.10.149.20]) by lohi.eng.song.fi with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 18ZWKG-0007Sq-00; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:14:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> To: Henning Schulzrinne Cc: Christer Holmberg , sip@ietf.org, antti.vaha-sipila@nokia.com, iptel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:14:24 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henning Schulzrinne writes: > > i have another question. why is context mandatory in local numbers? i > > would like to make it optional and if it is missing, the context would > > be derived from the from uri. > > How would it be uniquely and unambiguously derived? if my from uri is +358-3-1234567 and i make a call to 03-2345678, the user agent or proxy could figure out that the missing country code is +358. this is normal dial plan stuff. -- juha _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 17 08:16:39 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21544 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:16:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0HDWER30439 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:32:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDWEJ30436 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:32:14 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21536 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:16:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDW2J30341; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:32:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDVGJ30280 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:31:16 -0500 Received: from brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21502; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:15:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from cs.columbia.edu (APh-Aug-102-2-1-12.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.40.12]) (user=hgs10 mech=PLAIN bits=0) by brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h0HDIS9Q007269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:18:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> From: Henning Schulzrinne Organization: Columbia University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi CC: Christer Holmberg , sip@ietf.org, antti.vaha-sipila@nokia.com, iptel@ietf.org References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:15:58 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > if my from uri is +358-3-1234567 and i make a call to 03-2345678, the > user agent or proxy could figure out that the missing country code is > +358. this is normal dial plan stuff. tel URIs, as has been discussed a few times, do no incorporate dial plans. They are *generated* by dial plans. > > -- juha > _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 17 08:21:42 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21623 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:21:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0HDbIV31109 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:37:18 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDbIJ31097 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:37:18 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21616 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:21:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDb2J30733; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:37:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDaLJ30639 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:36:21 -0500 Received: from lohi.eng.song.fi (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21604; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:20:14 -0500 (EST) From: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi Received: from harjus.eng.song.fi ([195.10.149.20]) by lohi.eng.song.fi with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 18ZWTA-0007Tj-00; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:23:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> To: Henning Schulzrinne Cc: Christer Holmberg , sip@ietf.org, antti.vaha-sipila@nokia.com, iptel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:23:36 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henning Schulzrinne writes: > > if my from uri is +358-3-1234567 and i make a call to 03-2345678, the > > user agent or proxy could figure out that the missing country code is > > +358. this is normal dial plan stuff. > > tel URIs, as has been discussed a few times, do no incorporate dial > plans. They are *generated* by dial plans. if the tel uri must be always fully qualified then the ua must have a dial plan and generate the fully qualified tel uri. in some cases it would be easier to let the proxy to run the dial plan code on the message and fully qualify the tel uri. -- juha _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 17 08:25:36 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21731 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:25:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0HDfBX31549 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:41:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDfBJ31546 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:41:11 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21716 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:25:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDf0J31527; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:41:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HDeuJ31510 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:40:56 -0500 Received: from penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21713; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:24:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se (esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.69]) by penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.12.1/8.12.1/WIREfire-1.4) with ESMTP id h0HDS3Av020473; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:28:03 +0100 (MET) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id ZGNBVMPS; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:28:03 +0100 Received: from lmf.ericsson.se (3OQK900K04BAB3K.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.30.40]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.6/8.12.6/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h0HDS3TM018608; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:28:04 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3E2804E5.5ED969EF@lmf.ericsson.se> X-Sybari-Trust: 40ac1e8a 9ffcebbb 6f685166 00000138 From: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi CC: Henning Schulzrinne , sip@ietf.org, antti.vaha-sipila@nokia.com, iptel@ietf.org References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:28:05 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, > >>if my from uri is +358-3-1234567 and i make a call to 03-2345678, the > >>user agent or proxy could figure out that the missing country code is > >>+358. this is normal dial plan stuff. > > > >tel URIs, as has been discussed a few times, do no incorporate dial > >plans. They are *generated* by dial plans. > > if the tel uri must be always fully qualified then the ua must have a > dial plan and generate the fully qualified tel uri. in some cases it > would be easier to let the proxy to run the dial plan code on the > message and fully qualify the tel uri. I agree with Juha. I don't think we have any requirements on having dial plans in the SIP phones, do we? I know there is a discussion ongoing about it, but still... Regards, Christer Holmberg Ericsson Finland _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 21 06:31:54 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26152 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 06:31:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0LBnPD09816 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 06:49:25 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0LBnOJ09811 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 06:49:24 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26148 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 06:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0LBnAJ09786; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 06:49:10 -0500 Received: from hanmir.com ([220.77.173.101]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0LBmNJ09738 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 06:48:23 -0500 Message-Id: <200301211148.h0LBmNJ09738@www1.ietf.org> From: ÇϹ«¾ð To: iptel@www1.ietf.org Reply-To: cantos1001@hanmir.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ks_c_5601-1987 Subject: [Iptel] °Ô¸£¸¶´½ Áö¾Ð½½¸®ÆÛ °³¹ßÁ¤º¸(±¤°í) Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 06:48:23 -0500
Á¤º¸Åë½ÅºÎ ±Ç°í»çÇ׿¡ ÀÇ°Å ÀÛ¼ºÇÑ [±¤°í] ¸ÞÀÏÀÔ´Ï´Ù.
¾ÕÀ¸·Î ¸ÞÀϼö½ÅÀ» ¿øÄ¡ ¾ÊÀ¸½Ã¸é ¼ö½Å°ÅºÎ¸¦ ´­·¯ÁֽʽÿÀ.
±ÍÇÏÀÇ e-mail ÁÖ¼Ò´Â 02-12-19 ¿ÀÈÄ 6:44:47 ¿¡ lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-discuss/2002Nov/0042.html ¿¡¼­ ¼öÁýÇß½À´Ï´Ù.

 

 °Ç°­½Å¹ß Ä­Å佺 CANTOS ¿¡ ¿À½Å°ÍÀ» ȯ¿µÇÕ´Ï´Ù ¡Ø¡Ø¹ß °Ç°­°ü¸® ƯÇãÁ¦Ç° ÀÔ´Ï´Ù¡Ø¡Ø ÀÎüÀÇ °æ¶ô(ÌèÕ©)Àº ¹ßÀ» µû¶ó È帣°í, °æÇ÷(Ìèúì)¶ÇÇÑ ¹ß¹Ù´Ú¿¡ ÁýÁߵǾî ÀÖ½À´Ï´Ù . Áö¾Ð(ò¢ää)°ú Á·Ä§(ðëöÜ) È¿°ú·Î °Ç°­À» ÁöÄÑÁÝ´Ï´Ù! ¹ßÀ» Àß °ü¸®ÇÏ¿© ¼ÒÁßÇÑ °¡Á·ÀÇ °Ç°­À» ÁöÅ°¼¼¿ä...!!

"À½À̿¹߻ý ½Å°³¹ßÇ°" °Ô¸£¸¶´½ Áö¾Ð½½¸®ÆÛ (GT-2003ABC)

Ư¡ : À½ÀÌ¿Â.¿øÀû¿Ü¼± ¹æÃâ

1. °Ô¸£¸¶´½+Å丣¸¶¸° 10% ÇÔÀ¯ÇÏ¿© À½ÀÌ¿Â+¿øÀû¿Ü¼±¹æÃâ, Ç÷¾×¼øȯ, ³¿»õ ½À±â ¹«Á» Á¦°ÅÈ¿°ú°¡ Ź¿ùÇÕ´Ï´Ù.

2. EVA Áö¾Ð±òâÀÇ °æÇ÷Áö¾Ð Á·Ä§È¿°ú·Î Ç÷¾×¼øȯ, ´ÙÀ̾îÆ®, ÇÇ·Îȸº¹, ÀÎü±â´É, ¼ÒÈ­±â´É °³¼±È¿°ú°¡ Å®´Ï´Ù.

3. Ãֽűâ¼ú õ¿¬°í¹« Áø°ø¹ßÆ÷âÀ» »ç¿ëÇÏ¿© Äí¼ÇÀÌ ÁÁ°í  Áß·®°¨, ÂøÈ­°¨, ¸¶¸ð¼º, ³»±¸¼º µî¿¡¼­ °úÇÐÀûÀ¸·Î °³¹ßÇÏ¿´À¸¸ç ¹Ì²ô·³¹æÁö, Ãæ°ÝÈí¼ö, °üÀýº¸È£ È¿°ú°¡ Ź¿ùÇÑ °í±Þ °Ç°­½½¸®ÆÛ, ƯÇãÁ¦Ç°ÀÔ´Ï´Ù.

http://www.helshoes.com      http://www.cantos.co.kr
Thanks/Best Regards
Ha Moo Eon/President of Onnoori Industrial co.,  051-516-6556   ¿Â´©¸®»ê¾÷

 

_______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 21 09:48:09 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01491 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:48:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0LF5i022306 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:05:44 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0LF5iJ22303 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:05:44 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01464 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:47:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0LF5AJ22287; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:05:10 -0500 Received: from hanmir.com ([220.77.173.101]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0LF4KJ22197 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:04:21 -0500 Message-Id: <200301211504.h0LF4KJ22197@www1.ietf.org> From: ÇϹ«¾ð To: iptel@www1.ietf.org Reply-To: cantos1001@hanmir.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ks_c_5601-1987 Subject: [Iptel] °Ô¸£¸¶´½ °Ç°­½½¸®ÆÛ °³¹ßÃâ½Ã(±¤°í) Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:04:21 -0500
Á¤º¸Åë½ÅºÎ ±Ç°í»çÇ׿¡ ÀÇ°Å ÀÛ¼ºÇÑ [±¤°í] ¸ÞÀÏÀÔ´Ï´Ù.
¾ÕÀ¸·Î ¸ÞÀϼö½ÅÀ» ¿øÄ¡ ¾ÊÀ¸½Ã¸é ¼ö½Å°ÅºÎ¸¦ ´­·¯ÁֽʽÿÀ.
±ÍÇÏÀÇ e-mail ÁÖ¼Ò´Â 02-12-19 ¿ÀÈÄ 6:44:47 ¿¡ lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-discuss/2002Nov/0042.html ¿¡¼­ ¼öÁýÇß½À´Ï´Ù.

 

 °Ç°­½Å¹ß Ä­Å佺 CANTOS ¿¡ ¿À½Å°ÍÀ» ȯ¿µÇÕ´Ï´Ù ¡Ø¡Ø¹ß °Ç°­°ü¸® ƯÇãÁ¦Ç° ÀÔ´Ï´Ù¡Ø¡Ø ÀÎüÀÇ °æ¶ô(ÌèÕ©)Àº ¹ßÀ» µû¶ó È帣°í, °æÇ÷(Ìèúì)¶ÇÇÑ ¹ß¹Ù´Ú¿¡ ÁýÁߵǾî ÀÖ½À´Ï´Ù . Áö¾Ð(ò¢ää)°ú Á·Ä§(ðëöÜ) È¿°ú·Î °Ç°­À» ÁöÄÑÁÝ´Ï´Ù! ¹ßÀ» Àß °ü¸®ÇÏ¿© ¼ÒÁßÇÑ °¡Á·ÀÇ °Ç°­À» ÁöÅ°¼¼¿ä...!!

"À½À̿¹߻ý ½Å°³¹ßÇ°" °Ô¸£¸¶´½ Áö¾Ð½½¸®ÆÛ (GT-2003ABC)

Ư¡ : À½ÀÌ¿Â.¿øÀû¿Ü¼± ¹æÃâ

1. °Ô¸£¸¶´½+Å丣¸¶¸° 10% ÇÔÀ¯ÇÏ¿© À½ÀÌ¿Â+¿øÀû¿Ü¼±¹æÃâ, Ç÷¾×¼øȯ, ³¿»õ ½À±â ¹«Á» Á¦°ÅÈ¿°ú°¡ Ź¿ùÇÕ´Ï´Ù.

2. EVA Áö¾Ð±òâÀÇ °æÇ÷Áö¾Ð Á·Ä§È¿°ú·Î Ç÷¾×¼øȯ, ´ÙÀ̾îÆ®, ÇÇ·Îȸº¹, ÀÎü±â´É, ¼ÒÈ­±â´É °³¼±È¿°ú°¡ Å®´Ï´Ù.

3. Ãֽűâ¼ú õ¿¬°í¹« Áø°ø¹ßÆ÷âÀ» »ç¿ëÇÏ¿© Äí¼ÇÀÌ ÁÁ°í  Áß·®°¨, ÂøÈ­°¨, ¸¶¸ð¼º, ³»±¸¼º µî¿¡¼­ °úÇÐÀûÀ¸·Î °³¹ßÇÏ¿´À¸¸ç ¹Ì²ô·³¹æÁö, Ãæ°ÝÈí¼ö, °üÀýº¸È£ È¿°ú°¡ Ź¿ùÇÑ °í±Þ °Ç°­½½¸®ÆÛ, ƯÇãÁ¦Ç°ÀÔ´Ï´Ù.

http://www.helshoes.com      http://www.cantos.co.kr
Thanks/Best Regards
Ha Moo Eon/President of Onnoori Industrial co.,  051-516-6556   ¿Â´©¸®»ê¾÷

 

_______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Jan 22 05:47:25 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA21449 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:47:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0MB5NO12056 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:05:23 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0MB5NJ12053 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:05:23 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA21445 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:46:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0MB58J12039; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:05:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0MB4EJ12012 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:04:14 -0500 Received: from hss.hns.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA21442 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:45:42 -0500 (EST) From: stoshniwal@hss.hns.com Received: from sampark.hss.hns.com (sampark [139.85.229.22]) by hss.hns.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h0M9xSa00910 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:29:28 +0530 Received: by sampark.hss.hns.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 65256CB6.0038F71B ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:52:12 +0530 X-Lotus-FromDomain: HSSBLR To: iptel@ietf.org cc: ramakrishna@hss.hns.com Message-ID: <65256CB6.0038F6E5.00@sampark.hss.hns.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [Iptel] doubt regarding CPL usage Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:52:11 +0530 Hi all, In case of the CPL address-switch how is the subdomain matching done for IP addresses? For example, if a script contains the following address-switch:
and the received request contains From header as: From: should the subdomain-of comparison succeed? Thanks, Siddharth. -------------------------------------------------------- Siddharth Toshniwal Hughes Software Systems Prestige Opal http://www.hssworld.com 146, Infantry Road Ph (O): +91-80-2286390 (7094) Bangalore-560001, India Mobile: +91-9845154068 -------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu Jan 23 18:47:51 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24555 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:47:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0O06Yf04250 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:06:34 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0O06YJ04247 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:06:34 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24552 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:47:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0O069J04225; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:06:09 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0O05NJ04190 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:05:23 -0500 Received: from sj-msg-core-2.cisco.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24538 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:46:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com [171.71.163.15]) by sj-msg-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNnPsx028009; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from fluffyw2k (dhcp-128-107-141-61.cisco.com [128.107.141.61]) by mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.1-GA) with ESMTP id AAU26300; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:49:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Cullen Jennings" To: Cc: "Jonathan Rosenberg" , "Cullen Jennings" Message-ID: <004d01c2c33a$116a16c0$32d16b80@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Iptel] Requests for WG agenda time at 56th IETF Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:49:28 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is time to start setting the agenda for the next meeting. If you want to discuss issues with drafts at the next meeting, please request a slot by sending email to the WG chairs. As always, the slots will be allocated for discussions according to what is outlined below. It is not the purpose of a WG session to have presentation of the content of a document. It is assumed that all attendees will have read the drafts in advance of the meeting. For documents that are work-in-progress, the presentation should cover issues resolved since the last draft followed by open issues, and controversial topics with the intent to reach a resolution of said issues and topics. For new work items, the presentation should focus on what the problem is and why it is necessary for the work group to address it. Further it must be shown how the work falls within the existing charter; no time will be allocated for proposals that do not fit the current WG charter. The solution should only be sketched. The appropriate way of bringing new work to the working group is to post an Internet Draft, send a pointer to the draft to the mailing list and promote discussion on the list. Slots on the agenda should be used to discuss outstanding topics that haven't been settled on the mailing list. In all cases only a limited number of slides should be used. Speakers should budget their at least 25% of their time to allow for discussion/questions. Thanks, Cullen _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 04:30:42 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA14058 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:30:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0O9ncx16372 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:49:38 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0O9ncJ16369 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:49:38 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA14048 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:30:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0O9nIJ16361; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:49:18 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0O9miJ16344 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:48:44 -0500 Received: from mta1 (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA14027 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:29:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from CHIRUCL1058 (mta1 [172.17.1.60]) by mta1.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.7 (built Jun 26 2002)) with ESMTPA id <0H97002GJP18AK@mta1.huawei.com> for iptel@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 17:29:34 +0800 (CST) From: chiru g To: iptel@ietf.org Message-id: <000601c2c38b$520dc5e0$8b03120a@CHIRUCL1058> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Iptel] regexp in NAPTR Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:01:04 +0530 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello, Is there a draft which explains how to parse the "regexp" in NAPTR? Thanks Chiru _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 05:46:40 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA15369 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 05:46:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OB5cd21252 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:05:38 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OB5cJ21249 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:05:38 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA15337 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 05:46:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OB5GJ21238; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:05:16 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OB4YJ21190 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:04:34 -0500 Received: from rsys001a.roke.co.uk (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA15329 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 05:45:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by rsys001a.roke.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:48:33 -0000 Received: from percy.roke.co.uk ([193.118.192.111]) by rsys002a.roke.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id CN3C001B; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:48:26 -0000 From: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" To: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi, Henning Schulzrinne Cc: Christer Holmberg , antti.vaha-sipila@nokia.com, iptel@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lwc@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> Subject: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:48:23 +0000 At 3:23 pm +0200 17/1/03, jh@lohi.eng.song.fi wrote: >Henning Schulzrinne writes: > > > > if my from uri is +358-3-1234567 and i make a call to 03-2345678, the > > > user agent or proxy could figure out that the missing country code is > > > +358. this is normal dial plan stuff. > > > > tel URIs, as has been discussed a few times, do no incorporate dial > > plans. They are *generated* by dial plans. > >if the tel uri must be always fully qualified then the ua must have a >dial plan and generate the fully qualified tel uri. in some cases it >would be easier to let the proxy to run the dial plan code on the >message and fully qualify the tel uri. > >-- juha Hi Folks, ...sigh... If I receive a tel URL containing a local number, without and idea of the context *in the place that the URL was constructed* then I don't know whether or not I'm in that context. I could dial the local number, but once disambiguated it may well address a completely different terminal from the one the URL was intended to address. Yes, the UA will know how to dial out, and will know it's context, but can't guess the context in which the URL was written. The context says - this is the context in which this local number is valid (e.g. the context of the entity constructing this URL) - *not* your context. If the recipient of the URL is NOT in that context then it can't dial without some serious hacking in the UA, and even then it might not be possible to dial the number from the recipient's UA. Hence we NEED a context; this has not changed since Antti's original document. all the best, Lawrence -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Roke Manor Research : This information is provided "as is" and is not : intended to create any contractual or legal : relationship. _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 06:07:15 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15614 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:07:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OBQEF22670 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:26:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OBQDJ22667 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:26:14 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15609 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:06:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OBQ2J22659; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:26:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OBPRJ22614 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:25:27 -0500 Received: from lohi.eng.song.fi (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15606 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:05:57 -0500 (EST) From: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi Received: from harjus.eng.song.fi ([195.10.149.20]) by lohi.eng.song.fi with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 18c1i1-0003Nv-00; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:09:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15921.7901.273271.64359@harjus.eng.song.fi> To: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" Cc: Henning Schulzrinne , Christer Holmberg , antti.vaha-sipila@nokia.com, iptel@ietf.org Subject: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers In-Reply-To: References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:09:17 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP) writes: > If I receive a tel URL containing a local number, without > and idea of the context *in the place that the URL was constructed* > then I don't know whether or not I'm in that context. yes, if YOU receive from me such an url you may not know what its context is, but the story is quite different if the proxy of my organization receives such an url from me. in such a case there is not need to the ua to add a context to the local number. -- juha _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 06:09:11 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15652 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:09:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OBS9q22734 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:28:09 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OBS9J22731 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:28:09 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15640 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:08:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OBS2J22723; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:28:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OBRpJ22704 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:27:51 -0500 Received: from albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15635 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:08:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se (esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.72]) by albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.12.1/8.12.1/WIREfire-1.4) with ESMTP id h0OBBlKV027774; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:11:47 +0100 (MET) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id DL6HXLKX; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:11:44 +0100 Received: from lmf.ericsson.se (3OQK900K04BAB3K.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.30.137]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.6/8.12.6/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h0OBBcH7022868; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:11:38 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3E311F6C.AE17B814@lmf.ericsson.se> X-Sybari-Trust: 447767f6 9ffcebbb c096fb41 00000138 From: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" CC: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi, Henning Schulzrinne , antti.vaha-sipila@nokia.com, iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:11:40 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, > At 3:23 pm +0200 17/1/03, jh@lohi.eng.song.fi wrote: > >Henning Schulzrinne writes: > > > > > > if my from uri is +358-3-1234567 and i make a call to 03-2345678, the > > > > user agent or proxy could figure out that the missing country code is > > > > +358. this is normal dial plan stuff. > > > > > > tel URIs, as has been discussed a few times, do no incorporate dial > > > plans. They are *generated* by dial plans. > > > >if the tel uri must be always fully qualified then the ua must have a > >dial plan and generate the fully qualified tel uri. in some cases it > >would be easier to let the proxy to run the dial plan code on the > >message and fully qualify the tel uri. > > > >-- juha > > Hi Folks, > ...sigh... > > If I receive a tel URL containing a local number, without > and idea of the context *in the place that the URL was constructed* > then I don't know whether or not I'm in that context. [CHH] In this case you could reject it. If the sender didn't insert it, and there was no intermediate node inserting it, there is a network architecture problem. My point, I guess Juha's too, was not that there should not be a context when the URL reaches the UAS, but that it MAY be inserted by another node than the UAC. > I could dial the local number, but once disambiguated it may well > address a completely different terminal from the one the URL was > intended to address. Yes, the UA will know how to dial out, and will > know it's context, but can't guess the context in which the URL > was written. Again, if the UAC doesn't insert the context, another node within the same context (or, at least a node knowing to which the UAC belongs) SHOULD insert it. > The context says - this is the context in which this local number > is valid (e.g. the context of the entity constructing this URL) > - *not* your context. I agree on that. However, my SIP phone may not know to which context they belong, for whatever reason, but the outbound proxy they communicate with DO know. > If the recipient of the URL is NOT in that context then it can't > dial without some serious hacking in the UA, and even then it > might not be possible to dial the number from the recipient's UA. Again, in this case the URL will be rejected. > Hence we NEED a context; this has not changed since Antti's original > document. Again, I do agree on that. The issue is if it shall be a MUST for the UAC to insert the context, or if a proxy can do it. Regards, Christer Holmberg Ericsson Finland _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 06:44:17 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16090 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:44:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OC3EX24649 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:03:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OC3EJ24646 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:03:14 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16081 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:43:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OC31J24616; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:03:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OC0hJ24440 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:00:43 -0500 Received: from rsys001a.roke.co.uk (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16002 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:41:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by rsys001a.roke.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:44:40 -0000 Received: from percy.roke.co.uk ([193.118.192.111]) by rsys002a.roke.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id CN3C00JL; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:44:38 -0000 From: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" To: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi Cc: Henning Schulzrinne , Christer Holmberg , iptel@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lwc@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <15921.7901.273271.64359@harjus.eng.song.fi> References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <15921.7901.273271.64359@harjus.eng.song.fi> Subject: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:44:35 +0000 At 1:09 pm +0200 24/1/03, jh@lohi.eng.song.fi wrote: >Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP) writes: > > > If I receive a tel URL containing a local number, without > > and idea of the context *in the place that the URL was constructed* > > then I don't know whether or not I'm in that context. > >yes, if YOU receive from me such an url you may not know what its >context is, but the story is quite different if the proxy of my >organization receives such an url from me. in such a case there is not >need to the ua to add a context to the local number. > >-- juha Hi again, Juha, folks, So, ... IF you are in the same context as your proxy, THEN it can use the URL as is, ELSE IF your proxy knows your context, THEN the proxy can re-interpret the URL context; IF that number if dailable from the Proxy, THEN it can use the converted number ELSE the URL will be rejected ELSE the URL will be rejected -- no disambiguation possible. Now, I'm on the South coast of the UK, whilst my proxy is in Richardson, TX, USA. I'm aware of another user of this proxy who is based in Munich, Germany. The proxy may well not find it easy to guess who's where and to re-construct the intended disambiguated number. If we pass context along, then it doesn't have to remember state - it knows by inspection of the URL. If I *buy* an "off-the-shelf" proxy, I don't expect to hack its source code just because it happens to be in the same room as me. The default config will be that the proxy will expect a context or will bounce the URL. If you want to hack the proxy and your UA so that they don't exchange this info, then that's fine. However, don't send this URL to anywhere else, as the recipient probably can't disambiguate it. atb, L -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Roke Manor Research : This information is provided "as is" and is not : intended to create any contractual or legal : relationship. _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 06:55:16 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16260 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:55:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OCEEF25851 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:14:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OCEEJ25848 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:14:14 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16251 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:54:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OCE0J25820; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:14:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OCCxJ25736 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:12:59 -0500 Received: from rsys001a.roke.co.uk (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16232; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:53:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by rsys001a.roke.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:56:56 -0000 Received: from percy.roke.co.uk ([193.118.192.111]) by rsys002a.roke.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id CN3C00KX; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:56:51 -0000 From: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" To: Christer Holmberg Cc: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi, Henning Schulzrinne , sip@ietf.org, iptel@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lwc@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3E311F6C.AE17B814@lmf.ericsson.se> References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E311F6C.AE17B814@lmf.ericsson.se> Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:56:48 +0000 At 1:11 pm +0200 24/1/03, Christer Holmberg wrote: >Hi, > >> At 3:23 pm +0200 17/1/03, jh@lohi.eng.song.fi wrote: >> >Henning Schulzrinne writes: >> > >> > > > if my from uri is +358-3-1234567 and i make a call to 03-2345678, the >> > > > user agent or proxy could figure out that the missing country code is >> > > > +358. this is normal dial plan stuff. >> > > >> > > tel URIs, as has been discussed a few times, do no incorporate dial >> > > plans. They are *generated* by dial plans. >> > >> >if the tel uri must be always fully qualified then the ua must have a >> >dial plan and generate the fully qualified tel uri. in some cases it >> >would be easier to let the proxy to run the dial plan code on the >> >message and fully qualify the tel uri. >> > >> >-- juha > >[Lawrence said:] > > Hi Folks, >> ...sigh... >> >> If I receive a tel URL containing a local number, without >> and idea of the context *in the place that the URL was constructed* >> then I don't know whether or not I'm in that context. > >[CHH] In this case you could reject it. If the sender didn't insert it, and >there was no intermediate node inserting it, there is a network architecture >problem. > >My point, I guess Juha's too, was not that there should not be a context when >the URL reaches the UAS, but that it MAY be inserted by another node than the >UAC. > >I agree on that. However, my SIP phone may not know to which context they >belong, for whatever reason, but the outbound proxy they communicate with DO >know. To which I reply:: Aha! Thanks for the clarification - I'm being slow today. This is a pure SIP issue - usage of tel URLs in SIP, and request modification by intermediate nodes. Interesting issue. However, IMHO there are other uses for tel URLs, so I'd suggest that draft-antti-rfc2916bis is correct in mandating this behaviour. If there's a separate draft for "SIP usage of tel URLs" that qualifies the main tel URL RFC, relaxing the requirement, that's fine; I'm not sure if it's a SIP or SIPPING job, but I think that's where it lives. I just don't want to nail this down in the general 2916 update. all the best, Lawrence -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Roke Manor Research : This information is provided "as is" and is not : intended to create any contractual or legal : relationship. _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 06:57:18 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16366 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:57:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OCGGq26000 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:16:16 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OCGGJ25997 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:16:16 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16341 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OCG3J25978; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:16:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OCFeJ25909 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:15:40 -0500 Received: from lohi.eng.song.fi (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16294 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:56:10 -0500 (EST) From: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi Received: from harjus.eng.song.fi ([195.10.149.20]) by lohi.eng.song.fi with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 18c2Uj-0003Rr-00; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:59:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15921.10921.330557.8232@harjus.eng.song.fi> To: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" Cc: Henning Schulzrinne , Christer Holmberg , iptel@ietf.org Subject: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers In-Reply-To: References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <15921.7901.273271.64359@harjus.eng.song.fi> X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:59:37 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP) writes: > Now, I'm on the South coast of the UK, whilst my proxy is > in Richardson, TX, USA. I'm aware of another user of this proxy > who is based in Munich, Germany. The proxy may well not find it > easy to guess who's where and to re-construct the intended > disambiguated number. If we pass context along, then it doesn't > have to remember state - it knows by inspection of the URL. you may very well invent scenarios where you have to specify the context and i have never said that you would not be allowed to do so. what i have said is that there are lots of scenarios where it is unnecessary to specify the context, for example, my office sip hard phone may not have a habit to travel around the world. i don't quite understand what your motivation is to force me to configure all my phones with the context info when local calling without a context info has worked very well for us for two years now. if you need to give the context, you are very welcome to do so, but don't try to force me to do the same. > If I *buy* an "off-the-shelf" proxy, I don't expect to hack its > source code just because it happens to be in the same room as me. > The default config will be that the proxy will expect a context > or will bounce the URL. if that is the case with your proxy, then you simply have to configure the context in every sip phone that uses local calling. i'm simply luckier that you, because i don't need to do it for phones that don't travel around. > If you want to hack the proxy and your UA so that they don't exchange > this info, then that's fine. However, don't send this URL to anywhere > else, as the recipient probably can't disambiguate it. of course not, because my proxy will convert the number to a global one before it leaves my organization. -- juha _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 06:59:16 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16419 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:59:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OCIE126078 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:18:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OCIDJ26075 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:18:13 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16401 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:58:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OCI1J26067; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:18:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OCH4J26042 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:17:04 -0500 Received: from albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16392 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:57:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se (esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.68]) by albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.12.1/8.12.1/WIREfire-1.4) with ESMTP id h0OC10KV011718; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:01:00 +0100 (MET) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id ZGN39145; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:01:00 +0100 Received: from lmf.ericsson.se (3OQK900K04BAB3K.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.30.137]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.6/8.12.6/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h0OC10H7025849; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:01:00 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3E312AFE.62613C2F@lmf.ericsson.se> X-Sybari-Trust: d6bbf863 9ffcebbb c096fb41 00000138 From: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" CC: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi, Henning Schulzrinne , iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <15921.7901.273271.64359@harjus.eng.song.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:01:02 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Comment ([CHH]) at the end. "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" wrote: > At 1:09 pm +0200 24/1/03, jh@lohi.eng.song.fi wrote: > >Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP) writes: > > > > > If I receive a tel URL containing a local number, without > > > and idea of the context *in the place that the URL was constructed* > > > then I don't know whether or not I'm in that context. > > > >yes, if YOU receive from me such an url you may not know what its > >context is, but the story is quite different if the proxy of my > >organization receives such an url from me. in such a case there is not > >need to the ua to add a context to the local number. > > > >-- juha > > Hi again, Juha, folks, > So, ... > IF you are in the same context as your proxy, > THEN it can use the URL as is, > ELSE IF your proxy knows your context, > THEN the proxy can re-interpret the URL context; > IF that number if dailable from the Proxy, > THEN it can use the converted number > ELSE the URL will be rejected > ELSE the URL will be rejected -- no disambiguation possible. > > Now, I'm on the South coast of the UK, whilst my proxy is > in Richardson, TX, USA. I'm aware of another user of this proxy > who is based in Munich, Germany. The proxy may well not find it > easy to guess who's where and to re-construct the intended > disambiguated number. If we pass context along, then it doesn't > have to remember state - it knows by inspection of the URL. > > If I *buy* an "off-the-shelf" proxy, I don't expect to hack its > source code just because it happens to be in the same room as me. > The default config will be that the proxy will expect a context > or will bounce the URL. > > If you want to hack the proxy and your UA so that they don't exchange > this info, then that's fine. However, don't send this URL to anywhere > else, as the recipient probably can't disambiguate it. [CHH] I don't think anyone has been talking about having to hack source code... This could be a feature in the proxy, and something called "configuration" could then be used to make sure it behaves correctly ;) Regards, Christer Holmberg Ericsson Finland _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 08:35:25 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18866 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:35:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0ODsPn31684 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:54:25 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0ODsPJ31681 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:54:25 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18861 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:34:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0ODs7J31669; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:54:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0ODrLJ31638 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:53:21 -0500 Received: from penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18846; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:33:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se (esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.69]) by penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.12.1/8.12.1/WIREfire-1.4) with ESMTP id h0ODbEAv005737; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:37:14 +0100 (MET) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id DLW0JNJ0; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:37:13 +0100 Received: from lmf.ericsson.se (3OQK900K04BAB3K.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.30.137]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.6/8.12.6/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h0ODbDH7001485; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:37:13 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> X-Sybari-Trust: 9ba71256 9ffcebbb c096fb41 00000138 From: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" CC: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi, Henning Schulzrinne , sip@ietf.org, iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E311F6C.AE17B814@lmf.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:37:15 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit H, > >>If I receive a tel URL containing a local number, without > >>and idea of the context *in the place that the URL was constructed* > >>then I don't know whether or not I'm in that context. > > > >[CHH] In this case you could reject it. If the sender didn't insert it, and > >there was no intermediate node inserting it, there is a network architecture > >problem. > > > >My point, I guess Juha's too, was not that there should not be a context when > >the URL reaches the UAS, but that it MAY be inserted by another node than the > >UAC. > > > > >I agree on that. However, my SIP phone may not know to which context they > >belong, for whatever reason, but the outbound proxy they communicate with DO > >know. > > To which I reply:: > > Aha! Thanks for the clarification - I'm being slow today. > This is a pure SIP issue - usage of tel URLs in SIP, and request > modification by intermediate nodes. Interesting issue. > > However, IMHO there are other uses for tel URLs, so I'd suggest that > draft-antti-rfc2916bis is correct in mandating this behaviour. > > If there's a separate draft for "SIP usage of tel URLs" that qualifies > the main tel URL RFC, relaxing the requirement, that's fine; I'm not sure > if it's a SIP or SIPPING job, but I think that's where it lives. > > I just don't want to nail this down in the general 2916 update. [CHH] 2916 doesn't have to say anything about SIP. 2916 can make the context optional, and "users" (eg SIP) and network architectures can then mandate the use of the context. There may also be other parameters, which are optional in 2916, but still are mandatory for specific users/architectures/applications. Another option, which you mentioned, is to write a separate "SIP usage of tel URL" draft (this is pretty much what has been done for SDP in H.248/Megaco), but I am not sure that is the best solution for this specific purpose. Have a nice weekend! Regards, Christer Holmberg Ericsson Finland _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 08:38:13 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18938 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:38:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0ODvDj31823 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:57:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0ODvDJ31820 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:57:13 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18914 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:37:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0ODv2J31802; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:57:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0ODtxJ31736 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:55:59 -0500 Received: from dewberry.cc.columbia.edu (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18885 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:36:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from cs.columbia.edu (tallgrass.netlab.uky.edu [204.198.76.66]) (user=hgs10 mech=PLAIN bits=0) by dewberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h0ODdrUP004943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:39:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E31422F.3070403@cs.columbia.edu> From: Henning Schulzrinne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christer Holmberg CC: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" , jh@lohi.eng.song.fi, iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <15921.7901.273271.64359@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E312AFE.62613C2F@lmf.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <3E312AFE.62613C2F@lmf.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:39:59 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > [CHH] I don't think anyone has been talking about having to hack source > code... This could be a feature in the proxy, and something called > "configuration" could then be used to make sure it behaves correctly ;) One of the underlying SIP assumptions is that we should treat each terminal as mobile, i.e., you should be able to plug it in anywhere in the Internet and it should work (modulo NATs and firewalls). Another fundamental principle of modern Internet protocol design, I believe, is that users should not get involved in configuring devices or debugging obscure protocol behavior. Things should fail explicitly rather than misbehave. If I take my shiny IP phone home from work, my outbound proxy changes. If the phone has no context, I will likely get obscure failures or, in the worst case, reach the wrong destination. Nobody can keep you from omitting phone-context in a phone and back-fixing this in a proxy. However, that does not mean that the WG should endorse such behavior in documents, particularly given that the cost of configuring IP devices with phone context is close to zero. Henning _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 08:54:42 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19307 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:54:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OEDhC00529 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:13:43 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OEDhJ00526 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:13:43 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19292 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OEDTJ00514; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:13:29 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OEBRJ00438 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:11:27 -0500 Received: from rsys001a.roke.co.uk (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19247; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:51:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by rsys001a.roke.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:55:22 -0000 Received: from percy.roke.co.uk ([193.118.192.111]) by rsys002a.roke.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id CN3C00RZ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:55:21 -0000 From: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" To: Christer Holmberg Cc: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi, Henning Schulzrinne , sip@ietf.org, iptel@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lwc@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E311F6C.AE17B814@lmf.ericsson.se> <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:55:17 +0000 Hi folks, comments below - lwc - At 3:37 pm +0200 24/1/03, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > >> >I agree on that. However, my SIP phone may not know to which context they >> >belong, for whatever reason, but the outbound proxy they >>communicate with DO >> >know. >> >> To which I reply:: >> >> Aha! Thanks for the clarification - I'm being slow today. >> This is a pure SIP issue - usage of tel URLs in SIP, and request >> modification by intermediate nodes. Interesting issue. >> >> However, IMHO there are other uses for tel URLs, so I'd suggest that >> draft-antti-rfc2916bis is correct in mandating this behaviour. >> >> If there's a separate draft for "SIP usage of tel URLs" that qualifies >> the main tel URL RFC, relaxing the requirement, that's fine; I'm not sure >> if it's a SIP or SIPPING job, but I think that's where it lives. >> >> I just don't want to nail this down in the general 2916 update. > >[CHH] 2916 doesn't have to say anything about SIP. 2916 can make the context >optional, and "users" (eg SIP) and network architectures can then >mandate the use of >the context. There may also be other parameters, which are optional >in 2916, but >still are mandatory for specific users/architectures/applications. >Another option, which you mentioned, is to write a separate "SIP >usage of tel URL" >draft (this is pretty much what has been done for SDP in >H.248/Megaco), but I am not >sure that is the best solution for this specific purpose. > >Have a nice weekend! > - lwc - [BTW, folks, apologies for cross-posting - this seems to relevant both to SIP and IPTEL] A SIP proxy can have a mechanism to insert a context, so disambiguating the tel URL. So can other systems, I suspect. However... if there is no such mechanism, then the DEFAULT behaviour is to require a context as part of a "local number" tel URL (or bounce the URL). I think that this "default" should be in RFC2916bis, whilst the relaxation of the rule should be in the areas where there are mechanisms to avoid the potential mistakes. Otherwise we can have unsafe but standard-conforming implementations. My opinion only, but I need to be convinced. Nice weekend to one and all. Lawrence -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Roke Manor Research : This information is provided "as is" and is not : intended to create any contractual or legal : relationship. _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 09:15:58 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19962 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:15:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OEZ0w01618 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:35:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OEYxJ01615 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:34:59 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19952 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OEYMJ01591; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:34:22 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OEWjJ01496 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:32:45 -0500 Received: from lohi.eng.song.fi (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19887 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:13:12 -0500 (EST) From: jh@lohi.eng.song.fi Received: from harjus.eng.song.fi ([195.10.149.20]) by lohi.eng.song.fi with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 18c4dI-0003cV-00; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 16:16:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15921.19140.176935.368699@harjus.eng.song.fi> To: Henning Schulzrinne Cc: Christer Holmberg , "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" , iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers In-Reply-To: <3E31422F.3070403@cs.columbia.edu> References: <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <15921.7901.273271.64359@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E312AFE.62613C2F@lmf.ericsson.se> <3E31422F.3070403@cs.columbia.edu> X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 16:16:36 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henning Schulzrinne writes: > One of the underlying SIP assumptions is that we should treat each > terminal as mobile, i.e., you should be able to plug it in anywhere in > the Internet and it should work (modulo NATs and firewalls). even mobile terminals using local numbers would work ok w/o context configuration if the terminal is using a local proxy. only in case where the terminal uses some non-local proxy and local numbers the context needs to be configured. and if it does so, how does the user know what to put in to the local context? are you suggesting it learns it via dhcp or how? where is the spec for that? > If I take my shiny IP phone home from work, my outbound proxy changes. > If the phone has no context, I will likely get obscure failures or, in > the worst case, reach the wrong destination. we could say that the lack of explicit context means use the context of the user's home proxy. that would cause the call via a foreign proxy to fail w/o context. > Nobody can keep you from omitting phone-context in a phone and > back-fixing this in a proxy. However, that does not mean that the WG > should endorse such behavior in documents, particularly given that the > cost of configuring IP devices with phone context is close to zero. configuration complexity will certainly increase in many common cases if the context is made mandatory. and how about backwards compatibility with today's sip phones? i don't know any that supports context configuration. -- juha _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 10:32:26 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22574 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:32:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OFpUg07402 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:51:30 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OFpTJ07399 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:51:29 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22560 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:31:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OFpAJ07374; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:51:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OFo5J07323 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:50:05 -0500 Received: from joy.songbird.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22498; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:30:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from rshockeybox.shockey.us (inetgw.va.neustar.com [209.173.53.225]) by joy.songbird.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19593; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:33:40 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030124101540.015d6418@shockey.us> X-Sender: richard@shockey.us X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" From: Richard Shockey Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Cc: sip@ietf.org, iptel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E311F6C.AE17B814@lmf.ericsson.se> <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:21:25 -0500 >> >>[CHH] 2916 doesn't have to say anything about SIP. 2916 can make the context >>optional, and "users" (eg SIP) and network architectures can then mandate >>the use of >>the context. There may also be other parameters, which are optional in >>2916, but >>still are mandatory for specific users/architectures/applications. >>Another option, which you mentioned, is to write a separate "SIP usage of >>tel URL" >>draft (this is pretty much what has been done for SDP in H.248/Megaco), >>but I am not >>sure that is the best solution for this specific purpose. >> >>Have a nice weekend! Well some of this discussion might be relevant for the ENUM WG as well but I do not see any need for 2916 to have any information about context at all. This thread is somewhat confusing to me. What 2916 is explicit about is that is dealing with fully qualified e164 numbers only. You will have noticed that references or examples of partial e164 numbers have been removed from 2916bis 03. Queries to partial e164 numbers ( local numbers ) or private dialing plans are assumed not to be in the context of e164.arpa at all. UAC ore the relevant proxyshould be able to understand their context and reformulate the URL into the e164 number before any other action is taken. As some one else mentioned this is old stuff to most of us... as a old developer of outbound IVR systems we always had to have a local text configuration file. >- lwc - >[BTW, folks, apologies for cross-posting - this seems to relevant both to >SIP and IPTEL] > >A SIP proxy can have a mechanism to insert a context, so disambiguating the >tel URL. So can other systems, I suspect. >However... if there is no such mechanism, then the DEFAULT behaviour is to >require a context as part of a "local number" tel URL (or bounce the URL). > >I think that this "default" should be in RFC2916bis, whilst the relaxation >of the rule should be in the areas where there are mechanisms to avoid the >potential mistakes. Otherwise we can have unsafe but standard-conforming >implementations. My opinion only, but I need to be convinced. For my information are you suggesting that this behavior be documented in a enumservice field registration for the tel URL or as part of the overall use of ENUM in SIP. I dont see how documenting this in 2916bis is relevant..or am I missing something here > Nice weekend to one and all. > Lawrence >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Roke Manor Research : This information is provided "as is" and is not >: intended to create any contractual or legal > : relationship. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard Shockey, Senior Manager, Strategic Technology Initiatives NeuStar Inc. 46000 Center Oak Plaza - Sterling, VA 20166 Voice +1 571.434.5651 Cell : +1 314.503.0640, Fax: +1 815.333.1237 or ; <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 10:55:31 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23196 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:55:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OGEZQ09195 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:14:35 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OGEZJ09192 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:14:35 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23185 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:55:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OGERJ09184; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:14:27 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OGBPJ09012 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:11:25 -0500 Received: from rsys001a.roke.co.uk (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23104; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:51:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by rsys001a.roke.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:55:16 -0000 Received: from percy.roke.co.uk ([193.118.192.111]) by rsys002a.roke.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id CN3C00YY; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:55:11 -0000 From: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" To: Richard Shockey Cc: sip@ietf.org, iptel@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lwc@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030124101540.015d6418@shockey.us> References: <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E311F6C.AE17B814@lmf.ericsson.se> <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> <5.2.0.9.2.20030124101540.015d6418@shockey.us> Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:55:09 +0000 At 10:21 am -0500 24/1/03, Richard Shockey wrote: > >Well some of this discussion might be relevant for the ENUM WG as >well but I do not see any need for 2916 to have any information >about context at all. This thread is somewhat confusing to me. To which I reply: Arghh!!!! My bad - for 2916bis in the thread, please read 2806bis. It's time for the weekend. That will teach me to respond to mailing lists during a teleconference - duh! Sorry for the confusion - we return you to your normal service. atb, Lawrence _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 13:38:12 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28098 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:38:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OIvI520483 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:57:18 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OIvIJ20480 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:57:18 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28079 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:37:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OIv4J20469; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:57:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OIuSJ20404 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:56:28 -0500 Received: from albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28019; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:36:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se (esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.68]) by albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.12.1/8.12.1/WIREfire-1.4) with ESMTP id h0OIeHKV007933; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:40:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id ZGNPAYHW; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:40:17 +0100 Received: from lmf.ericsson.se (3OQK900K04BAB3K.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.106.10]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.6/8.12.6/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h0OIeHH7017620; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 20:40:17 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3E3188A1.DEB044D9@lmf.ericsson.se> X-Sybari-Trust: f3d8f3b5 9ffcebbb c096fb41 00000138 From: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Shockey CC: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" , sip@ietf.org, iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers References: <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E311F6C.AE17B814@lmf.ericsson.se> <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> <5.2.0.9.2.20030124101540.015d6418@shockey.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 20:40:33 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, > >>[CHH] 2916 doesn't have to say anything about SIP. 2916 can make the >>context > optional, and "users" (eg SIP) and network architectures can then >>mandate the > use of > >>the context. There may also be other parameters, which are optional in > >>2916, but > >>still are mandatory for specific users/architectures/applications. > >>Another option, which you mentioned, is to write a separate "SIP usage of > >>tel URL" > >>draft (this is pretty much what has been done for SDP in H.248/Megaco), > >>but I am not > >>sure that is the best solution for this specific purpose. > >> > >>Have a nice weekend! > > Well some of this discussion might be relevant for the ENUM WG as well but > I do not see any need for 2916 to have any information about context at > all. This thread is somewhat confusing to me. [CHH] I was actually thinking about that. If I have a E.164 number, do an ENUM DNS lookup, and receive a TEL-URL with a local number in the lookup answer, shall that TEL-URL contain the context, or shall my node add it? > What 2916 is explicit about is that is dealing with fully qualified e164 > numbers only. You will have noticed that references or examples of partial > e164 numbers have been removed from 2916bis 03. Queries to partial e164 > numbers ( local numbers ) or private dialing plans are assumed not to be in > the context of e164.arpa at all. [CHH] So, possible TEL-URL(s) received in the ENUM lookup MUST be in international format? Regards, Christer Holmberg Ericsson Finland _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jan 24 14:10:16 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29096 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:10:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OJTNA22514 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:29:23 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OJTNJ22511 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:29:23 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29089 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:09:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OJT3J22489; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:29:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0OJSqJ22466 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:28:52 -0500 Received: from joy.songbird.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29067; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:09:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from rshockeybox.shockey.us (inetgw.va.neustar.com [209.173.53.225]) by joy.songbird.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30754; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:12:20 -0800 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030124140417.022abff0@shockey.us> X-Sender: richard@shockey.us X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: Christer Holmberg From: Richard Shockey Subject: Re: [Iptel] Re: [Sip] TEL-URL local numbers Cc: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" , sip@ietf.org, iptel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3E3188A1.DEB044D9@lmf.ericsson.se> References: <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> <3E27EF16.B7312454@lmf.ericsson.se> <15911.63537.627963.460641@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E27FF63.4030601@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.432.180748.674189@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E28020E.4080805@cs.columbia.edu> <15912.984.540036.277317@harjus.eng.song.fi> <3E311F6C.AE17B814@lmf.ericsson.se> <3E31418B.D7DDE7D6@lmf.ericsson.se> <5.2.0.9.2.20030124101540.015d6418@shockey.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:14:36 -0500 > > > > > Well some of this discussion might be relevant for the ENUM WG as well but > > I do not see any need for 2916 to have any information about context at > > all. This thread is somewhat confusing to me. > >[CHH] I was actually thinking about that. If I have a E.164 number, do an >ENUM DNS >lookup, and receive a TEL-URL with a local number in the lookup answer, >shall that >TEL-URL contain the context, or shall my node add it? why would ENUM return a local number is my question? What is the application scenario you have in mind .. For Instance the presumption is that you would have a return of URL' one sip maybe one tel this is the old call forwarding application ..if you cannot reach sip: then try tel: easy to do with the modification of the preference field..then certainly the tel should be a FQe164. > > What 2916 is explicit about is that is dealing with fully qualified e164 > > numbers only. You will have noticed that references or examples of partial > > e164 numbers have been removed from 2916bis 03. Queries to partial e164 > > numbers ( local numbers ) or private dialing plans are assumed not to be in > > the context of e164.arpa at all. > >[CHH] So, possible TEL-URL(s) received in the ENUM lookup MUST be in >international >format? Thats certainly what I would recommend and that has always been the parameters of 2916 no partial e164 numbers . but you could point to a private dialing plan as in a domain other than e164.arpa. In fact you can create any terminal or non terminal redirection you want if you write up a RFC describing it using the procedure in 2916bis >Regards, > >Christer Holmberg >Ericsson Finland >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard Shockey, Senior Manager, Strategic Technology Initiatives NeuStar Inc. 46000 Center Oak Plaza - Sterling, VA 20166 Voice +1 571.434.5651 Cell : +1 314.503.0640, Fax: +1 815.333.1237 or ; <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Sun Jan 26 08:18:32 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17418 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 08:18:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0QDcTJ03158 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 08:38:29 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0QDcTJ03155 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 08:38:29 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17413 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 08:18:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0QDc8J03142; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 08:38:08 -0500 Received: from hanmir.com ([220.77.173.101]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0QDZRJ02449 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 08:35:28 -0500 Message-Id: <200301261335.h0QDZRJ02449@www1.ietf.org> From: ÇϹ«¾ð To: iptel@www1.ietf.org Reply-To: cantos1001@hanmir.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ks_c_5601-1987 Subject: [Iptel] ÀÌ°ÍÀÌ °Ç°­½Å¹ß Ä­Å佺 CANTOS !! 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 _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Sun Jan 26 09:06:32 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18085 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 09:06:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0QEQVw05079 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 09:26:31 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0QEQUJ05076 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 09:26:30 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18080 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 09:06:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0QEQIJ05060; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 09:26:18 -0500 Received: from hanmir.com ([220.77.173.101]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0QEMBJ04920 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 09:22:12 -0500 Message-Id: <200301261422.h0QEMBJ04920@www1.ietf.org> From: ÇϹ«¾ð To: iptel@www1.ietf.org Reply-To: cantos1001@hanmir.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ks_c_5601-1987 Subject: [Iptel] ÀÌ°ÍÀÌ °Ç°­»÷µé Ä­Å佺 CANTOS !! (±¤°í) Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 09:22:12 -0500
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 _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 28 10:25:38 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA27818 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:25:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0SFkbN27784 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:46:37 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SFkbJ27781 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:46:37 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA27803 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:25:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SFkDJ27750; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:46:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SFjEJ27691 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:45:14 -0500 Received: from rsys001a.roke.co.uk (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA27739 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:23:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by rsys001a.roke.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:27:12 -0000 Received: from percy.roke.co.uk ([193.118.192.111]) by rsys002a.roke.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id CN3DA1CB; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:27:09 -0000 From: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" To: Henning Schulzrinne Cc: iptel@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lwc@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [Iptel] 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:27:07 +0000 Hi Henning, folks, I send this to IPTEL as "holder of 2806bis" as it's a general issue. Looking at the SIPPING discussions, they (understandably) focus on the SIPPING scope. However, there are statements there like [with this assumption] "the text in 2806bis can get considerably smaller and more focused", where [this assumption] focuses on SIPPING issues only. Q:: Are all uses of the tel: URI scheme still considered rather than a particular (if most important) usage? If so, how do we reconcile these disparate uses - in 2806bis or by qualifications for specific use? This *has* to be a common issue but I'm not quite sure how it plays out - the DDDS cluster is one way (but I hope we don't end up with six circularly referential docs for this URI scheme definition :). all the best, Lawrence -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Roke Manor Research : This information is provided "as is" and is not : intended to create any contractual or legal : relationship. _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 28 11:30:37 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29984 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:30:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0SGpbI00997 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:51:37 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SGpbJ00994 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:51:37 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29966 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:30:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SGp9J00958; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:51:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SGoMJ00894 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:50:22 -0500 Received: from brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29947 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:28:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from cs.columbia.edu (tallgrass.netlab.uky.edu [204.198.76.66]) (user=hgs10 mech=PLAIN bits=0) by brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h0SGWJos023181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:32:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E36B0A9.2080901@cs.columbia.edu> From: Henning Schulzrinne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" CC: iptel@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Iptel] Re: 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:32:41 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm hoping that 2806bis is the core. The SIPPING discussion is primarily when we use different possibilities, namely SIP URIs with phone user parts, global tel URIs or local tel URIs. I'm considering writing a brief annex to 2806bis that captures the more important parts of this discussion, kind of an applicability statement. Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP) wrote: > Hi Henning, folks, > I send this to IPTEL as "holder of 2806bis" as it's a general issue. > > Looking at the SIPPING discussions, they (understandably) focus on > the SIPPING scope. However, there are statements there like [with this > assumption] "the text in 2806bis can get considerably smaller and more > focused", where [this assumption] focuses on SIPPING issues only. > > Q:: Are all uses of the tel: URI scheme still considered rather > than a particular (if most important) usage? > If so, how do we reconcile these disparate uses - in 2806bis or > by qualifications for specific use? > > This *has* to be a common issue but I'm not quite sure how it plays > out - the DDDS cluster is one way (but I hope we don't end up with > six circularly referential docs for this URI scheme definition :). > > all the best, > Lawrence > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Registered Office: Roke Manor Research Ltd, Siemens House, Oldbury, Bracknell, > Berkshire. RG12 8FZ > > The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is confidential to Roke > Manor Research Ltd and must not be passed to any third party without permission. This > communication is for information only and shall not create or change any contractual > relationship. _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 28 11:34:22 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA00123 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:34:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0SGtM801245 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:55:22 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SGtMJ01241 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:55:22 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA00104 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:33:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SGt4J01203; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:55:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SGsLJ01142 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:54:21 -0500 Received: from mailgate.pit.comms.marconi.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA00078 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com (mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com [169.144.2.12]) by mailgate.pit.comms.marconi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29005; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:36:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com (uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com [169.144.2.221]) by mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24604; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:36:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:36:18 -0500 Message-ID: <313680C9A886D511A06000204840E1CF030B5D87@whq-msgusr-02.pit.comms.marconi.com> From: "Rosen, Brian" To: "'Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)'" Cc: iptel@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Iptel] 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:36:15 -0500 The discussion revolves around the use of the "context" parameter. I believe that all the other potential users of tel: uris will be very happy without context, i.e. global numbers. That will be MUCH better than having to devise sip-independent definitions of context. If you have a use for a tel uri not related to sip, that needs context, I'd like to understand it. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP) [mailto:lwc@roke.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:27 AM > To: Henning Schulzrinne > Cc: iptel@ietf.org > Subject: [Iptel] 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? > > > Hi Henning, folks, > I send this to IPTEL as "holder of 2806bis" as it's a > general issue. > > Looking at the SIPPING discussions, they (understandably) focus on > the SIPPING scope. However, there are statements there like [with this > assumption] "the text in 2806bis can get considerably smaller and more > focused", where [this assumption] focuses on SIPPING issues only. > > Q:: Are all uses of the tel: URI scheme still considered rather > than a particular (if most important) usage? > If so, how do we reconcile these disparate uses - in 2806bis or > by qualifications for specific use? > > This *has* to be a common issue but I'm not quite sure how it plays > out - the DDDS cluster is one way (but I hope we don't end up with > six circularly referential docs for this URI scheme definition :). > > all the best, > Lawrence > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Roke Manor Research : This information is provided "as is" > and is not > : intended to create any contractual or legal > : relationship. > _______________________________________________ > Iptel mailing list > Iptel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel > _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 28 11:51:41 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01020 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:51:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0SHCg103426 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:12:42 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SHCgJ03423 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:12:42 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01001 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:51:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SHC4J03393; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:12:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SHBtJ03351 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:11:55 -0500 Received: from rsys001a.roke.co.uk (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA00951 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:50:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by rsys001a.roke.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:53:51 -0000 Received: from percy.roke.co.uk ([193.118.192.111]) by rsys002a.roke.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id CN3DA12M; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:53:46 -0000 From: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" To: "Rosen, Brian" Cc: iptel@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lwc@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <313680C9A886D511A06000204840E1CF030B5D87@whq-msgusr-02.pit.comms.marconi .com> References: <313680C9A886D511A06000204840E1CF030B5D87@whq-msgusr-02.pit.comms.marconi .com> Subject: RE: [Iptel] 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:53:43 +0000 At 11:36 am -0500 28/1/03, Rosen, Brian wrote: >The discussion revolves around the use of the "context" parameter. >I believe that all the other potential users of tel: uris will be >very happy without context, i.e. global numbers. That will be MUCH >better than having to devise sip-independent definitions of context. >If you have a use for a tel uri not related to sip, that needs >context, I'd like to understand it. > >Brian Hi Brian, folks, A Web page - recipient has a in-built PSTN dialer (yup, they should convert to using SIP and a 'Net link, but...) If the URL publisher wants calls to a number only from locals, with another number for "out of towners", this gives the context in which that URL value should be used. Recipient doesn't need a full dialing plan to know if this includes them - same issue as in comments on SIPPING list. Yes, there are other ways of doing this. However, it has been there since 2806 so the fact that it can be done some other way is not a strong reason for throwing it out, IMHO. atb, L -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Roke Manor Research : This information is provided "as is" and is not : intended to create any contractual or legal : relationship. _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jan 28 12:06:24 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01274 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:06:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0SHRQ604149 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:27:26 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SHRQJ04146 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:27:26 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01267 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:05:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SHR5J04133; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:27:06 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SHQ3J04091 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:26:03 -0500 Received: from mail3.dynamicsoft.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01260 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:04:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from dynamicsoft.com (dyn-tx-app-004.dfw.dynamicsoft.com [63.110.3.2]) by mail3.dynamicsoft.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h0SH81YH010169; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:08:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E36B8EA.50402@dynamicsoft.com> From: Jonathan Rosenberg Organization: dynamicsoft User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Rosen, Brian" CC: "'Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)'" , iptel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Iptel] 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? References: <313680C9A886D511A06000204840E1CF030B5D87@whq-msgusr-02.pit.comms.marconi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:07:54 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In its role purely as a name, the context is important to define scope. One can imagine comparing these things for equality in order to determine if two users in a database have the same phone number. Also, recall that the original use of the tel URI was to embed it in web pages, and when a user clicked on it, a PSTN call was made from a modem card in a PC. That use could also benefit from context, in order to determine whether the number that was clicked on was in the appropraite scope to be dialed from that PC. -Jonathan R. Rosen, Brian wrote: > The discussion revolves around the use of the "context" parameter. > I believe that all the other potential users of tel: uris will be > very happy without context, i.e. global numbers. That will be MUCH > better than having to devise sip-independent definitions of context. > If you have a use for a tel uri not related to sip, that needs > context, I'd like to understand it. > > Brian > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP) [mailto:lwc@roke.co.uk] >>Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:27 AM >>To: Henning Schulzrinne >>Cc: iptel@ietf.org >>Subject: [Iptel] 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? >> >> >>Hi Henning, folks, >> I send this to IPTEL as "holder of 2806bis" as it's a >>general issue. >> >>Looking at the SIPPING discussions, they (understandably) focus on >>the SIPPING scope. However, there are statements there like [with this >>assumption] "the text in 2806bis can get considerably smaller and more >>focused", where [this assumption] focuses on SIPPING issues only. >> >>Q:: Are all uses of the tel: URI scheme still considered rather >>than a particular (if most important) usage? >>If so, how do we reconcile these disparate uses - in 2806bis or >>by qualifications for specific use? >> >>This *has* to be a common issue but I'm not quite sure how it plays >>out - the DDDS cluster is one way (but I hope we don't end up with >>six circularly referential docs for this URI scheme definition :). >> >>all the best, >> Lawrence >>-- >>-------------------------------------------------------------- >>--------- >>Roke Manor Research : This information is provided "as is" >>and is not >>: intended to create any contractual or legal >> : relationship. >>_______________________________________________ >>Iptel mailing list >>Iptel@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel >> > > _______________________________________________ > Iptel mailing list > Iptel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel > -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 72 Eagle Rock Ave. Chief Scientist First Floor dynamicsoft East Hanover, NJ 07936 jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050 http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000 http://www.dynamicsoft.com _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Jan 29 05:16:58 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA14833 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:16:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TAcKd13801 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:38:20 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TAcJJ13798 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:38:19 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA14825 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:16:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TAc5J13772; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:38:05 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TAYRJ12955 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:34:27 -0500 Received: from mail1.telekom.de (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA14806 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:12:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from g9jbr.mgb01.telekom.de by G8SBV.dmz.telekom.de with ESMTP; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:11:13 +0100 Received: by G9JBR.mgb01.telekom.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:11:13 +0100 Message-Id: From: "Alexeitsev, D" To: hgs@cs.columbia.edu Cc: iptel@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Iptel] Resolution of tel URI Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:11:09 +0100 Hello Henning, All I have a general question concerning what tel URI is - more of URN or URI. So far my understanding of tel URI was of an Identifier that may identify in principle any kind of resource including humans, modems, IVRs..., Web documents? If this is true, then the current draft lacks the discussion about resolution of tel. URI as a resource identifier to the actual address and access protocol of the resource. If this annex is aimed to clarify this kind of discussion it would be greatly appreciated. Greetings, Denis Alexeitsev >I'm hoping that 2806bis is the core. The SIPPING discussion is primarily > when we use different possibilities, namely SIP URIs with phone user >parts, global tel URIs or local tel URIs. I'm considering writing a >brief annex to 2806bis that captures the more important parts of this >discussion, kind of an applicability statement. _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Jan 29 08:31:11 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18932 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:31:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TDqcU25725 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:52:38 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TDqbJ25722 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:52:37 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18907 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:30:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TDqDJ25700; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:52:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TDpUJ25656 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:51:30 -0500 Received: from mail.oefeg.at (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA18896 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:29:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: AW: [Iptel] 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? Message-ID: <06CF906FE3998C4E944213062009F1620DEEDD@oefeg-s02.oefeg.loc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" content-class: urn:content-classes:message Thread-Topic: [Iptel] 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Thread-Index: AcLG8KJWkY6Vm7mfTGaw3FPvZZ+v0wAqjjq8 From: "Stastny Richard" To: "Jonathan Rosenberg" , "Rosen, Brian" Cc: "Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h0TDpUJ25657 Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:36:32 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I fully agree with Jonathan and Lawrence that we need a context for non FQ E.164 numbers. Another important example is the usage of the tel URI in ENUM for private numbering plans and network-specific numbers. regards Richard -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com] Gesendet: Di 28.01.2003 18:07 An: Rosen, Brian Cc: 'Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP)'; iptel@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [Iptel] 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? In its role purely as a name, the context is important to define scope. One can imagine comparing these things for equality in order to determine if two users in a database have the same phone number. Also, recall that the original use of the tel URI was to embed it in web pages, and when a user clicked on it, a PSTN call was made from a modem card in a PC. That use could also benefit from context, in order to determine whether the number that was clicked on was in the appropraite scope to be dialed from that PC. -Jonathan R. Rosen, Brian wrote: > The discussion revolves around the use of the "context" parameter. > I believe that all the other potential users of tel: uris will be > very happy without context, i.e. global numbers. That will be MUCH > better than having to devise sip-independent definitions of context. > If you have a use for a tel uri not related to sip, that needs > context, I'd like to understand it. > > Brian > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP) [mailto:lwc@roke.co.uk] >>Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:27 AM >>To: Henning Schulzrinne >>Cc: iptel@ietf.org >>Subject: [Iptel] 2806bis is for everyone, not just for Christmas? >> >> >>Hi Henning, folks, >> I send this to IPTEL as "holder of 2806bis" as it's a >>general issue. >> >>Looking at the SIPPING discussions, they (understandably) focus on >>the SIPPING scope. However, there are statements there like [with this >>assumption] "the text in 2806bis can get considerably smaller and more >>focused", where [this assumption] focuses on SIPPING issues only. >> >>Q:: Are all uses of the tel: URI scheme still considered rather >>than a particular (if most important) usage? >>If so, how do we reconcile these disparate uses - in 2806bis or >>by qualifications for specific use? >> >>This *has* to be a common issue but I'm not quite sure how it plays >>out - the DDDS cluster is one way (but I hope we don't end up with >>six circularly referential docs for this URI scheme definition :). >> >>all the best, >> Lawrence >>-- >>-------------------------------------------------------------- >>--------- >>Roke Manor Research : This information is provided "as is" >>and is not >>: intended to create any contractual or legal >> : relationship. >>_______________________________________________ >>Iptel mailing list >>Iptel@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel >> > > _______________________________________________ > Iptel mailing list > Iptel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel > -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 72 Eagle Rock Ave. Chief Scientist First Floor dynamicsoft East Hanover, NJ 07936 jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050 http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000 http://www.dynamicsoft.com _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Jan 29 09:01:05 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19716 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:01:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TEMX728293 for iptel-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:22:33 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TEMWJ28288 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:22:32 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19680 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:00:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TEMDJ28263; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:22:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TELdJ28214 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:21:39 -0500 Received: from brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19619 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from cs.columbia.edu (tallgrass.netlab.uky.edu [204.198.76.66]) (user=hgs10 mech=PLAIN bits=0) by brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h0TE3BIp011492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:03:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E37DF30.8010907@cs.columbia.edu> From: Henning Schulzrinne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Alexeitsev, D" CC: iptel@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Iptel] Re: Resolution of tel URI Sender: iptel-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: iptel-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: iptel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IP Telephony List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:03:28 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's anything that can be identified by an E.164 number (or its various country cousins). There are many ways to resolve it to a protocol URI, from a local table to ENUM. I will add a Alexeitsev, D wrote: > Hello Henning, All > > I have a general question concerning what tel URI is - more of URN or URI. So far my understanding of tel URI was of an Identifier that may identify in principle any kind of resource including humans, modems, IVRs..., Web documents? If this is true, then the current draft lacks the discussion about resolution of tel. URI as a resource identifier to the actual address and access protocol of the resource. > > If this annex is aimed to clarify this kind of discussion it would be greatly appreciated. > > Greetings, > Denis Alexeitsev > > >>I'm hoping that 2806bis is the core. The SIPPING discussion is primarily >> when we use different possibilities, namely SIP URIs with phone user >>parts, global tel URIs or local tel URIs. I'm considering writing a >>brief annex to 2806bis that captures the more important parts of this >>discussion, kind of an applicability statement. _______________________________________________ Iptel mailing list Iptel@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iptel