From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Thu Jan 10 09:18:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F37221F8923 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:18:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e9C01Vp9Er09 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D662821F8830 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:18:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0AHISGn026807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:28 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0AHIRvK013833 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:28 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0AHIRd9013206 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:27 +0100 Message-ID: <50EEF7E3.2050507@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:27 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "its@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [its] Connected Car Cocktail at Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:18:31 -0000 An event maybe interesting, Connected Car Cocktail at Mobile World Congress http://telecomcouncil.cvent.com/events/connected-car-cocktail-mwc/event-summary-28132c07adae45d2a61d56079c37f582.aspx Alex From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sat Jan 26 05:49:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923F421F85FC for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:49:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WXwci38zeocN for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f48.google.com (mail-pb0-f48.google.com [209.85.160.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C0A21F859C for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f48.google.com with SMTP id wy12so695424pbc.35 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:49:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hojchgTks7jdBAk15CQrRjkOZGil9PX33vnMjNssdQ4=; b=C5XoR43+nj5F7EZeNeEkqajoAekRGSuw+/ozj/QA5kSJrQOAONK9KBR9A5EfawCdV8 FCxZsDNEVfLGVrimQRa9vCUIGGLUtqDDYpTTycjmtOpAXlSuozH0HGihbF4C8PPPe0g5 O9v1eax1ZiAGEluT+VhMB5NC354OCNKenTx9Efsno357J13KqvCcuJx5JvurgyvfIqwW q7HdxiQRCgrwohFf4ZIzMrha6to6ph2BQYMGa0DXWVXrym02CGrNde4IXpdgYMIO1Vi5 chf+P2okuEmXAJojzQA6rG1ZICsbv8fCzKZNU7XkKU6xYJahlUl4XVqeZ7y6zSrlL9NR hmSQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.234.167 with SMTP id uf7mr22658204pbc.20.1359208191194; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:49:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <50604C33.30106@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:49:51 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Alexandru Petrescu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] ITS WG page X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:49:55 -0000 Hi Alex, I provided interest in the WG and others as well, and I still did not know the answer to my questions in 24, Sep 2012. Is this group proposed for IETF WG, there are some groups that became WG quicker, is there a reason why ITS is still not IETF WG? Please advise, AB On 9/24/12, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > Hi Alex, > > I thank you for your efforts, and I want that we make ITS group an IETF W= G > as we discussed before but I did not know what happen to the application, > we also discussed the I-Ds related and we had meetings, but not sure how = is > the policy to get it accepted by ietf, > > AB > > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Alexandru Petrescu < > alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Nabil, >> >> Thank you for the request. >> >> Since this is not a Working Group, there is no web page on the IETF site >> for ITS, other than the page of the non-WG email list >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/its >> >> An additional web page with presentations at last informal meeting and >> bar-BoF is at >> http://www.lara.prd.fr/ietf-**its >> >> I try to build momentum for ITS to take off; it would help if you >> described your interest in ITS - what is your interest in ITS at IETF? >> >> Yours, >> >> Alex >> >> >> Le 24/09/2012 11:08, nabil benamar a =E9crit : >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I would like to ask if tha page related to this corking group has >>> been removed ? I can't access to ITS WG page on IETF site ? >>> >>> many thanks From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sat Jan 26 05:54:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 161FE21F871D for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:54:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7O-cXG3+swsp for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f52.google.com (mail-pb0-f52.google.com [209.85.160.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A365621F86A5 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id uo5so693569pbc.11 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:54:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=tH3+xr8yngnL+BqhY69oQoNi5quo4oqwtkyxlvrXsdQ=; b=KU+geCPAg5PdalbwNXR8IcKycUKepG/btAe2kOs2q4KOuC0slEnchsPNL1RlmHs0Mf nwX087p0hBJ91vh0G6MBPbc1G8+6tZqqFwrQkwjyKL7byoWe/q+GU8QyBKnbz+4Bs/Fm s6CU8OFTRKJqL+SCIcyogOzrWVOmyEZbmnXwhmjJiQ1H7c8pGX6BZ4k01nJ6r5a0Sug5 7LYAdPJvJ/uleDE4L2hvIDFuY5+Dc0pUhMbCUEAnSSclWaWeagI6icWrN2kLgYXpgmaY v9MNpcWB/1zpckEP97qbakXlL4e6l7zczpzq1fp73iXNLj4naKjAnsravCeK3xp03eaS MsMw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.73.164 with SMTP id m4mr21714415pav.12.1359208490440; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:54:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:54:50 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: its@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:54:51 -0000 Hi All, I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be completed and volunteered. AB From benamar73@gmail.com Sat Jan 26 06:27:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C553221F85BB for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:27:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eh-CIKIGLVBH for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:27:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com (mail-ob0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73F521F85AE for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:27:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-f172.google.com with SMTP id tb18so1160341obb.31 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:27:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=xseLj+8Wu6/4jt3Dax8v9gsF0e5uAR6FQrhiYwoZcsc=; b=N3BUxw9lBGhlMr7A/FkGr+JKl+2WGe4qS8rzxw5VMgaPMURlzJT6BoOa0xtsLFNAqR gXZDQkNHVPCxAJp4HcHbLp0rdkDq2j9r3t3j20pITvOiEA9n3xNlQv1yRsE29K2ssDpu tcH5G67WTYzxC8X91kvQcsxQTyOKY2fmdL0wTFFzjdsmT3TYBFnU5MLDVSmajhI9QOUi aUFKmmdQ/2JopTq9k48HR+RXLm3I3Bzct6vrSpzCy+e7NuWS+2e3D5PSty22sVLJVNRe CpADtG26CTC78/NsFDyje/4scfjkNKCEqZ04bYl0w6+PoRUcd5VUI6t3JDAfR+DUDio4 xJig== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.193.103 with SMTP id hn7mr7048912obc.39.1359210450237; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:27:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.27.104 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:27:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:27:30 +0000 Message-ID: From: Nabil Benamar To: Abdussalam Baryun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d044789090fba1204d431d852 Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:27:31 -0000 --f46d044789090fba1204d431d852 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices previously heard to make it a working group. So what should we exactly do, to achieve this goal ? 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun > Hi All, > > I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. Is > there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be completed > and volunteered. > > AB > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --=20 * * *=D8=AA=D8=AD=D9=8A=D8=A7=D8=AA=D9=8A =D8=8C **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 Nabil Benama= r* Professor of computer sciences Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- * --f46d044789090fba1204d431d852 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi All,

I'm still interested in this= list and want to join voices previously heard to make it a working group. = So what should we exactly do, to achieve this goal ?


2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun <a= bdussalambaryun@gmail.com>
Hi All,

I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. Is
there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be completed
and volunteered.

AB
_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its



--
<= font face=3D"sans-serif" color=3D"#1F497D"><= b>
=D8=AA=D8=AD=D9=8A= =D8=A7=D8=AA=D9=8A =D8=8C=C2=A0Cordialement, Regards


= =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 Nabil Benamar=
Professor of com= puter sciences
Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory
Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes
Moulay Ismail University
Meknes, Morocco
<= span style=3D"font-weight:bold">GSM:=C2=A0=C2=A0+ 2= 12 6 70832236
http://nabilbenamar.= com/

--------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------
--f46d044789090fba1204d431d852-- From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sat Jan 26 06:34:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF3921F8619 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:34:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HpBLcypU20vi for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:34:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-da0-f54.google.com (mail-da0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F3521F8614 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:34:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-da0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n2so591244dad.41 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:34:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2GTsJv9sNPCFCo1ziTg9AGvabX9ksw1tpTeB512VvUE=; b=YaXYwg2kQ+N5LWBFkbXPGV3eE+1HOxJ52uxmmhtJx9bOGwd3I+eMrTjrnTeIxAbLAm 6Bm/28v26cUVUV59bpZ3iev20LuTDuDLcv93kwgOaFk4Ng7n370gmvkS0j/UV4e+CdOx yoWDAmsIpvZZLI81BFGtkSa5oLGDPYD47s2dAoqUbf7mYXwqWUbQ6WepIykBLe4YjX6V AWFQRpfoFUuQzm+zgSzeMN3fndeE7R364/itvWAC3I6JRlbymPiMyYzTb5y4qGCzIP4G aInt300tv3+/AlwLb17hxQaj6x5gcioSlbfOylPRdZPwtXbvOdYJQE+jEYXkAh5488Qs bAfA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.234.167 with SMTP id uf7mr22937433pbc.20.1359210864782; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:34:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:34:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:34:24 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Nabil Benamar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:34:26 -0000 Hi Nabil, I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use cases and work to be done in this group. This charter needs to be approved by the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting so not sure about the status now, AB On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices previously hear= d > to make it a working group. So what should we exactly do, to achieve this > goal ? > > > 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun > >> Hi All, >> >> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. Is >> there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be completed >> and volunteered. >> >> AB >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > > > > -- > * > * > *=D8=AA=D8=AD=D9=8A=D8=A7=D8=AA=D9=8A =D8=8C **Cordialement, Regards* > * > * > * > * > *=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 Nabil Bena= mar* > Professor of computer sciences > Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory > Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes > Moulay Ismail* *University* > Meknes, Morocco > *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 > http://nabilbenamar.com/ > > * > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > * > From sratliff@cisco.com Sun Jan 27 20:03:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 567BE21F881E for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:03:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oI7-rUE2QfCr for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:02:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9194721F881A for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:02:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2612; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1359345779; x=1360555379; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=39xDAkZCOz/woZ/lieMkBX/8mgBiXJhAG/KuUCXVubU=; b=Q1LXuDpKkktzl9tvk/s+aEml00ziElEmEVYt7PMhP1ON/y4JKSZG9HUS TwRgRh84Rih0Q1FWLX82AWmuDG8xCyE5kxu7EyJ+uppqtbxVgFobJPSvc 8xlmKPT7ai5M82ZDzO3ZQ0u0InWOfUcg1xh1GwcuseMAkUvU4WIEqYcL6 I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgIFAND3BVGtJV2b/2dsb2JhbABFhka3KnMWc4IeAQEBAwEBAQEgEToLBQsCAQYCGAICBiACAgIfBgsVEAIEDgUIh3cDCQYMkXeafYgDDYlVgSOKbYN9MmEDlDeCcooahRKCd4Ik X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,548,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="168924845" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jan 2013 04:02:59 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com [173.37.183.77]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r0S42xS5026982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jan 2013 04:02:59 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.6.233]) by xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([173.37.183.77]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:02:58 -0600 From: "Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" To: Abdussalam Baryun Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? Thread-Index: AQHN+8y4mz/QJixPNEyuIKzlqC2ugJhcD4cAgAAB7QCAAnRFAA== Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 04:02:58 +0000 Message-ID: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.179.215] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <9368D04CB2270F4799685145B867D677@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Nabil Benamar , "" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 04:03:00 -0000 QWxsLCANCg0KVGhpcyBpcyBqdXN0IG9uZSBvcGluaW9uLCBidXQgSSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gdW5kZXJz dGFuZCB3aHkgSVRTIHdvdWxkIG5lZWQgaXRzIG93biBJRVRGIGdyb3VwLiBUaGUgd29yayBoZXJl IGlzIHRoZSBzYW1lIChJTU8pIGFzIHdoYXQgaXMgdGFraW5nIHBsYWNlIGluIE1BTkVULiBJIHdv dWxkIHZvdGUgdGhhdCB0aGlzIHdvcmsgYmUgdGFrZW4gdXAgaW4gTUFORVQuIA0KDQpSZWdhcmRz LA0KU3Rhbg0KDQpPbiBKYW4gMjYsIDIwMTMsIGF0IDk6MzQgQU0sIEFiZHVzc2FsYW0gQmFyeXVu IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IEhpIE5hYmlsLA0KPiANCj4gSSB0aGluayB3ZSBhbHJlYWR5IGRvbmUgc29t ZSBzdGVwcyBidXQgbm90IHN1cmUgaG93IGZhciBub3cuIFdlIHdpbGwNCj4gbmVlZCB0byBwcm9w b3NlIHRoZSBXRyBhbmQgcHJvdmlkZSB0aGUgV0cgY2hhcnRlciwgYXMgdXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZA0K PiB3b3JrIHRvIGJlIGRvbmUgaW4gdGhpcyBncm91cC4gVGhpcyBjaGFydGVyIG5lZWRzIHRvIGJl IGFwcHJvdmVkIGJ5DQo+IHRoZSBJRVNHLiBJIGhhdmUgbm90IGF0dGVuZGVkIHRoZSBsYXN0IG1l ZXRpbmcgc28gbm90IHN1cmUgYWJvdXQgdGhlDQo+IHN0YXR1cyBub3csDQo+IA0KPiBBQg0KPiAN Cj4gT24gMS8yNi8xMywgTmFiaWwgQmVuYW1hciA8YmVuYW1hcjczQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6 DQo+PiBIaSBBbGwsDQo+PiANCj4+IEknbSBzdGlsbCBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIHRoaXMgbGlzdCBh bmQgd2FudCB0byBqb2luIHZvaWNlcyBwcmV2aW91c2x5IGhlYXJkDQo+PiB0byBtYWtlIGl0IGEg d29ya2luZyBncm91cC4gU28gd2hhdCBzaG91bGQgd2UgZXhhY3RseSBkbywgdG8gYWNoaWV2ZSB0 aGlzDQo+PiBnb2FsID8NCj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiAyMDEzLzEvMjYgQWJkdXNzYWxhbSBCYXJ5dW4g PGFiZHVzc2FsYW1iYXJ5dW5AZ21haWwuY29tPg0KPj4gDQo+Pj4gSGkgQWxsLA0KPj4+IA0KPj4+ IEkgd2FzIGludGVyZXN0ZWQgaW4gdGhpcyBncm91cCBidXQgbm90IHN1cmUgd2hlcmUgYXJlIHdl IHNvIGZhci4gSXMNCj4+PiB0aGVyZSBwcm9ncmVzcywgb3IgaXMgdGhlcmUgaXNzdWVzL2VmZm9y dHMgdGhhdCBuZWVkIHRvIGJlIGNvbXBsZXRlZA0KPj4+IGFuZCB2b2x1bnRlZXJlZC4NCj4+PiAN Cj4+PiBBQg0KPj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fDQo+Pj4gaXRzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4+IGl0c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4+IGh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXRzDQo+Pj4gDQo+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+ PiAtLQ0KPj4gKg0KPj4gKg0KPj4gKtiq2K3Zitin2KrZiiDYjCAqKkNvcmRpYWxlbWVudCwgUmVn YXJkcyoNCj4+ICoNCj4+ICoNCj4+ICoNCj4+ICoNCj4+ICrZhtio2YrZhCDYqNmG2LnZhdix2Ygg TmFiaWwgQmVuYW1hcioNCj4+IFByb2Zlc3NvciBvZiBjb21wdXRlciBzY2llbmNlcw0KPj4gU2lt dWxhdGlvbiBhbmQgTW9kZWxpc2F0aW9uIExhYm9yYXRvcnkNCj4+IEh1bWFuIFNjaWVuY2VzIEZh Y3VsdHkgb2YgTWVrbmVzDQo+PiBNb3VsYXkgSXNtYWlsKiAqVW5pdmVyc2l0eSoNCj4+IE1la25l cywgTW9yb2Njbw0KPj4gKkdTTTogKiAqKyAyMTIgNiA3MDgzMjIzNg0KPj4gaHR0cDovL25hYmls YmVuYW1hci5jb20vDQo+PiANCj4+ICoNCj4+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+PiAq DQo+PiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18N Cj4gaXRzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBpdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pdHMNCg0K From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:00:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5EF21F862A for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:00:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.67 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.67 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X-T9GvtWgDBH for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769AA21F86FF for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0SA0XoN004323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:00:33 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0SA0WPX013748 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:00:33 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0SA0SmJ025800 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:00:32 +0100 Message-ID: <51064C3D.8090306@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:00:29 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:00:35 -0000 Hello, Sorry for the late reply. We need support from actors in the vehicle industry, vehicle equipment manufacturers, OEMs, extra-IETF SDOs specialized in vehicular communications (e.g. ETSI ITS), nationwide and EU projects and research organizations interested in vehicular communications, and more. I still consider realization of work here. At my organization we have several activities for IP vehicular communications. Prefix exchange for V2V communications was presented in manemo bar bof (long ago). This could be one single topic on which a WG could be formed (there are at least two participants ready to put effort in finalizing a document). ND-Prefix-Delegation for vehicles was drafted and presented to 6man WG. The use of Default Route with DHCPv6 was drafted and presented to MIF WG. The use of PMIPv6 with Network Mobility (for vehicles) was drafted and presented to netext WG. The IP addressing of a network within vehicle using a single IPv6 address allocated by a cellular operator is discussed in the v6ops WG (draft '64share'). VIN-based IP addressing scheme for vehicles is a draft to be published soon. I will announce it here as well. All these activities could be gathered together in a single place, with visibility to people having interest in vehicular communications. Otherwise they may proceed as started in these other places. What are the other ongoing activities at IETF relevant to vehicular communications? Alex Le 26/01/2013 14:54, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : > Hi All, > > I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. Is > there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be completed > and volunteered. > > AB _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:01:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2B021F8757 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:01:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.588 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.588 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2hpgZ7pFTYIg for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-f49.google.com (mail-pa0-f49.google.com [209.85.220.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC30E21F8794 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f49.google.com with SMTP id bi1so1432607pad.36 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:01:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=S5LshANzr9J/K1b4Yzn8lf350HFHqUZbDNd/LVSTS8Y=; b=D7RfrR7fxguiMX4N9VR72sWgIHVCG87y9oqkEFMwCR5H8FLcJGKIPJh0YTL/uTZ+kh vdFHMvthf0k8/vMFR6JzcAE26hGUs221fs86evjvYq24ZgPjxDwok/3xkkNb0xqE7BFF X/vYpjRZwgPeyQRZ4/4s8fAeXtavVyYeSXGk4027NmsI/myYaRBWvk88o4BxQjai1aCK FE2hPI+hVJY7pt4C6NIWHUrd5FgOUlabsKxZuytepeUqsWtd9ZRgoRN2/rpoPaPIfEul EwlGXsIycb+jJMLSpKuoaDcC5nRFqL3q+D5HnjVGJTG2KT/QiwUkumZPdk3lyxTaRCOv tZbA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.69.0.40 with SMTP id av8mr36216753pbd.117.1359367263240; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:01:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:01:03 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: its Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:01:04 -0000 Hi All, Why do we have many groups within IETF Routing Area including MANET if all WGs are designing protocols related to routing? I think the answer is that MANET is concerned with general purposes of dynamic routing but ITS is for specific routing issues, AB On 1/28/13, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) wrote: > All, > > This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS would need i= ts > own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) as what is taking place i= n > MANET. I would vote that this work be taken up in MANET. > > Regards, > Stan > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > >> Hi Nabil, >> >> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We will >> need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use cases and >> work to be done in this group. This charter needs to be approved by >> the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting so not sure about the >> status now, >> >> AB >> >> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices previously >>> heard >>> to make it a working group. So what should we exactly do, to achieve >>> this >>> goal ? >>> >>> >>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. Is >>>> there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be completed >>>> and volunteered. >>>> >>>> AB >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> its mailing list >>>> its@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> * >>> * >>> *=D8=AA=D8=AD=D9=8A=D8=A7=D8=AA=D9=8A =D8=8C **Cordialement, Regards* >>> * >>> * >>> * >>> * >>> *=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 Nabil Be= namar* >>> Professor of computer sciences >>> Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory >>> Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes >>> Moulay Ismail* *University* >>> Meknes, Morocco >>> *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 >>> http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>> >>> * >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------= --------- >>> * >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:01:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9413B21F8757 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:01:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.968 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.968 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.281, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P+IOIT0FIT2B for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0DE21F86FF for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:01:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0SA1eMC000764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:01:40 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0SA1eXE014373 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:01:40 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0SA1dwu026877 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:01:40 +0100 Message-ID: <51064C84.5000603@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:01:40 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:01:42 -0000 Le 26/01/2013 15:27, Nabil Benamar a écrit : > Hi All, > > I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices previously > heard to make it a working group. So what should we exactly do, to > achieve this goal ? Contact an industry partner, or research organization, or ongoing collaborative project, or SDO, and learn from them whether some of the techniques mentioned here may be relevant to their current interests. Alex > > > 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun > > > Hi All, > > I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. Is > there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be completed > and volunteered. > > AB _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > -- * * **تحياتي ØŒ ****Cordialement, Regards** ** ** ** ** *نبيل > بنعمرو Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences Simulation and > Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay > Ismail/**/University/* Meknes, Morocco */GSM: //+ 212 6 70832236 > http://nabilbenamar.com/ > > **--------------------------------------------------------------------------------** > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:04:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 554A621F857D for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:04:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.250, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eL6frkzRJFxm for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:04:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FADD21F886F for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0SA4tex017185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:04:55 +0100 Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0SA4ta2016168 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:04:55 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0SA4sg3023954 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:04:55 +0100 Message-ID: <51064D47.5030007@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:04:55 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:04:58 -0000 Le 26/01/2013 15:34, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : > Hi Nabil, > > I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We will > need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use cases and > work to be done in this group. This charter needs to be approved by > the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting so not sure about the > status now, The last meeting was held in Vancouver - it was informal. WE did not meet in Atlanta. We could plan to meet in Orlando (I will be there), but this would be the 3rd time we meet informally. In the past, when we met with a room, we were given the room for free by IETF. I feel like if we request again a room, still informal meeting, for Orlando, there will have to be expenses involved (not sure). This is one reason I don't know whether we should meet with a room. Alex > > AB > > On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should we >> exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >> >> >> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. >>> Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be >>> completed and volunteered. >>> >>> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing >>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >> >> >> >> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل بنعمرو >> Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences Simulation and >> Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay >> Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 >> http://nabilbenamar.com/ >> >> * >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> * >> > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:07:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3933E21F857D for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:07:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.588 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.588 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i-OFK3TgbRgX for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:07:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-f50.google.com (mail-pa0-f50.google.com [209.85.220.50]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B133A21F85B2 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:07:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f50.google.com with SMTP id hz10so1427745pad.37 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:07:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=xCO7p3kfnRyNqb+jhXD738yuPb+S65yScUPfrReyk5Y=; b=Wmk4k76MeI7+fW5qfdQR9fH3kULBj1eI7xZSJDwIjYW+1raT2/GM4EOZDSd7GcdYVY qcT5IHzfgqtVGy7M7Lds9MJA+o3Msje2r2TXX4xfzUt+apMicYvu1SV5Cqx7LsWo2/0Y UwmmI5vIN9fWoXTNCMGOr+tueeOEwmOWmao2rdJ/HWnmlE85/xdg0aDBnzG7r8d3rkMC L+qUspWPANw7MREDRKzBsopT5L2HfVGl9rQbkmvXrA6kocXpB0swRJT+2LhflYozDBhG GwdO17W0TK4zJRf8f5/S9gqMnM/Rlyl/kibYzVKh8294jUKkDx9GlvHiS/vW20GcALDb rtlw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.227.33 with SMTP id rx1mr36723402pbc.67.1359367670483; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:07:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:07:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <51064C3D.8090306@gmail.com> References: <51064C3D.8090306@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:07:50 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Alexandru Petrescu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:07:51 -0000 On 1/28/13, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > We need support from actors in the vehicle industry, vehicle equipment > manufacturers, OEMs, extra-IETF SDOs specialized in vehicular > communications (e.g. ETSI ITS), nationwide and EU projects and research > organizations interested in vehicular communications, and more. Do you mean we still don't have that yet, I see on this list many interested. How do you or the IETF measure interest is it by number or by value, or other? Also how long do you expect this will take so we get the IETF ITS WG active? please advise, AB From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:08:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7A021F85B2 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:08:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.024 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.225, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JF9boRhDN4TF for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACB121F857D for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0SA88Wj003555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:08:08 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0SA88jP017922 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:08:08 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0SA87vT032050 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:08:08 +0100 Message-ID: <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:08:08 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:08:11 -0000 Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : > All, > > This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS would > need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) as what is > taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work be taken up in > MANET. Stan, Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some time. I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using prefix exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix Delegation - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator and a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with DHCPv6. Please let me know. Yours, Alex > > Regards, Stan > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > >> Hi Nabil, >> >> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We >> will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use >> cases and work to be done in this group. This charter needs to be >> approved by the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting so not >> sure about the status now, >> >> AB >> >> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should we >>> exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>> >>> >>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so >>>> far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need >>>> to be completed and volunteered. >>>> >>>> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل بنعمرو >>> Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences Simulation and >>> Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay >>> Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 >>> http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>> >>> * >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> * >>> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:12:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B6C921F85B2 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:12:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.588 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.588 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6+7cTiDYJCft for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:12:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-da0-f51.google.com (mail-da0-f51.google.com [209.85.210.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0EE21F857D for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:12:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-da0-f51.google.com with SMTP id i30so1186996dad.10 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:12:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=K8K+jxYxbLW0PvwQ1HRoEqEnDmZmURO+lOMnVi5zQ+8=; b=utpKOmzYqPNnfHgV2oOKkrmRRsxgwdtapCfh5Cyf3nLQiaH91wlJeBVgMZp8gM3P/N Ho9oR65yZRVC35fxdt00PZBYQkp5pBEpMv0r2gumrPLqTtsZMpa8EjNDCP4LkTMSZydt A4NJB7T2yyHPVULXBY7XbgLZ5D3X750rniLkU530ZhF+ZIajwFy/2pRw89h7mk0/n1bK XYayKenVHGb10wAbIxtt2zrmTaMa9gi/bu18by2vywMnouN9NZz1WXV+n/MP1nvHfd3Y RXiClAo9DbjiKu/+f0fqttc495Lp6jp5emDy++/VLSqKd0M/Lg3wBGtBcnwCh2LwIBMi Q78w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.69.0.40 with SMTP id av8mr36289493pbd.117.1359367971512; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:12:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:12:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <51064D47.5030007@gmail.com> References: <51064D47.5030007@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:12:51 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Alexandru Petrescu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:12:52 -0000 I think there is more ITS interest in Europe than in America, so maybe meeting in the IETF in Europe will be more active. I cannot be to the next meeting but will be available to join the one after Orlando in Europe, AB On 1/28/13, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Le 26/01/2013 15:34, Abdussalam Baryun a =C3=A9crit : >> Hi Nabil, >> >> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We will >> need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use cases and >> work to be done in this group. This charter needs to be approved by >> the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting so not sure about the >> status now, > > The last meeting was held in Vancouver - it was informal. WE did not > meet in Atlanta. > > We could plan to meet in Orlando (I will be there), but this would be > the 3rd time we meet informally. In the past, when we met with a room, > we were given the room for free by IETF. I feel like if we request > again a room, still informal meeting, for Orlando, there will have to be > expenses involved (not sure). This is one reason I don't know whether > we should meet with a room. > > Alex > >> >> AB >> >> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should we >>> exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>> >>> >>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. >>>> Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be >>>> completed and volunteered. >>>> >>>> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- * * *=D8=AA=D8=AD=D9=8A=D8=A7=D8=AA=D9=8A =D8=8C **Cordialement, Reg= ards* * * * * *=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9= =88 >>> Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences Simulation and >>> Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay >>> Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 >>> http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>> >>> * >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------= --------- >>> >>> >>> > * >>> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From HJFischer@fischer-tech.eu Mon Jan 28 02:14:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2E421F85B2 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:14:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n9xrGoiS86HR for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from webbox333.server-home.org (webbox333.server-home.org [83.220.144.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FBE21F857D for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.222.117] (unknown [84.169.106.143]) by webbox333.server-home.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AFC585F89F for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:14:00 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <51064F9D.204@fischer-tech.eu> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:14:53 +0100 From: "Dr. Hans-Joachim Fischer" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <51064C3D.8090306@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51064C3D.8090306@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:14:03 -0000 Why are you so much focused on vehicle industry and ETSI? What they are doing is just a very small slice of C-ITS, and it is without a business model. The real C-ITS happens together with the infrastructure guys. Hans-Joachim Fischer http://its-standards.eu Am 28.01.2013 11:00, schrieb Alexandru Petrescu: > Hello, > > Sorry for the late reply. > > We need support from actors in the vehicle industry, vehicle equipment > manufacturers, OEMs, extra-IETF SDOs specialized in vehicular > communications (e.g. ETSI ITS), nationwide and EU projects and research > organizations interested in vehicular communications, and more. > > I still consider realization of work here. At my organization we have > several activities for IP vehicular communications. > > Prefix exchange for V2V communications was presented in manemo bar bof > (long ago). This could be one single topic on which a WG could be > formed (there are at least two participants ready to put effort in > finalizing a document). > > ND-Prefix-Delegation for vehicles was drafted and presented to 6man WG. > > The use of Default Route with DHCPv6 was drafted and presented to MIF WG. > > The use of PMIPv6 with Network Mobility (for vehicles) was drafted and > presented to netext WG. > > The IP addressing of a network within vehicle using a single IPv6 > address allocated by a cellular operator is discussed in the v6ops WG > (draft '64share'). > > VIN-based IP addressing scheme for vehicles is a draft to be published > soon. I will announce it here as well. > > All these activities could be gathered together in a single place, with > visibility to people having interest in vehicular communications. > Otherwise they may proceed as started in these other places. > > What are the other ongoing activities at IETF relevant to vehicular > communications? > > Alex > > Le 26/01/2013 14:54, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : >> Hi All, >> >> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. Is >> there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be completed >> and volunteered. >> >> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://its-standards.info/ESF-News-2012-01.pdf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The information contained in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Hans-Joachim Fischer ESF GmbH Fichtenweg 9 89143 Blaubeuren +49 (7344) 175340 +49 (7344) 919123 (Fax) http://fischer-tech.eu : Main web of ESF GmbH http://its-standards.eu : News on cooperative ITS standardization http://its-testing.org : International consultancy for cooperative ITS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:16:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531C121F8801 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:16:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.044 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.044 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.205, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8H4f5Klkm3v3 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FCB521F857D for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0SAGEXr011467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:16:14 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0SAGErg022789; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:16:14 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0SAGACb006519; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:16:14 +0100 Message-ID: <51064FEB.7010507@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:16:11 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Abdussalam Baryun References: <51064C3D.8090306@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:16:17 -0000 Le 28/01/2013 11:07, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : > On 1/28/13, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >> We need support from actors in the vehicle industry, vehicle >> equipment manufacturers, OEMs, extra-IETF SDOs specialized in >> vehicular communications (e.g. ETSI ITS), nationwide and EU >> projects and research organizations interested in vehicular >> communications, and more. > > Do you mean we still don't have that yet, I see on this list many > interested. Well, there is strong background support for IP vehicular networking. Many of these activities happen outside IETF. In some cases with good effects, and in other cases less so (for example ETSI ITS is a good standard but little known at IETF). > How do you or the IETF measure interest is it by number or by value, > or other? If we organize a bar BoF we need to fill that room, and have people expressing whether this work is needed or not. This is more than just emails - emails is simply confirmation about what's happening in a room. By value - people potentially involved need at least travel budget thrice a year. > Also how long do you expect this will take so we get the IETF ITS WG > active? Personally I see this as a continuously ongoing informal activity, until someone shows and kicks it up into a bar BoF, then BoF, then WG. This is an engagement on at least 1-year length (3 meetings), only to get it started. Once started, there are about 2-3 years to pass to get some RFC out. Alex > > please advise, > > AB > > From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:17:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A16121F85B2 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:17:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.588 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.588 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x4NeHwZVFDg0 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f42.google.com (mail-pb0-f42.google.com [209.85.160.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B170221F857D for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f42.google.com with SMTP id wz17so143150pbc.1 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:17:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3Fw0wtB+YxwGcX7kdIDTzVfGo+HD6LEMGpbAkvJarn4=; b=L+U1dL95pZlueG08vZSIBnrm9qHaYxM9TTZyiJDi2rb39Clzcg5hVlDNg24HDQ8ZyH KzQyVP6PA0I8a1Oj405HzMhFbONGmvj3iZQ2enPezNUiukVERhqZdMVRJmRVZvlS6bJ1 8v/vSoS5feuZezVNz9J6n1o3ykTbQEGQNOTmeEY9XV41cX8VqBapjNv1Wb7vM56+rf37 sri7mU9Pt3d/LXMDmO1LYWZJtCf1Jz+UJxcp0LhFX1jV9wEi847mfTZQ+uT2icVQP3P1 BNanqtcROxDhWN6RJfP9pOkDhI3Kun8JrD5e+eJUJ9mh3sSW3tl0EJX8cedz1Dgmzd+M XNrg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.232.194 with SMTP id tq2mr18140004pbc.43.1359368220405; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:17:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:17:00 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Alexandru Petrescu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:17:01 -0000 Hi Alex, The MANET may recharter in future, they can include your concerns, because MANET has general purpose protocols, but I think ITS should submit its charter before MANET does, so things can go forward for both groups :) I maybe missing something :( AB On 1/28/13, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a =C3=A9crit : >> All, >> >> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS would >> need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) as what is >> taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work be taken up in >> MANET. > > Stan, > > Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some time. > > I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have interest > could be brought in in MANET WG: > - V2V using prefix exchange > - VIN-based IP addressing scheme > - ND Prefix Delegation > - PMIP-based network mobility > - IPv6 single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator and > a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). > - Default Route with DHCPv6. > > Please let me know. > > Yours, > > Alex > >> >> Regards, Stan >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >> >>> Hi Nabil, >>> >>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We >>> will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use >>> cases and work to be done in this group. This charter needs to be >>> approved by the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting so not >>> sure about the status now, >>> >>> AB >>> >>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should we >>>> exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>> >>>> >>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so >>>>> far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need >>>>> to be completed and volunteered. >>>>> >>>>> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- * * *=D8=AA=D8=AD=D9=8A=D8=A7=D8=AA=D9=8A =D8=8C **Cordialement, Re= gards* * * * * *=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9= =88 >>>> Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences Simulation and >>>> Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay >>>> Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 >>>> http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>> >>>> * >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------- >>>> >>>> >>>> > * >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:35:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4E921F854B for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:35:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.762 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.762 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.112, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XXFpkFc+BM-u for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:35:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 634B521F8549 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:35:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0SAZkZD019609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:35:46 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0SAZkPO003532 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:35:46 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0SAZfG5021696 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:35:46 +0100 Message-ID: <5106547E.8090906@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:35:42 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <51064C3D.8090306@gmail.com> <51064F9D.204@fischer-tech.eu> In-Reply-To: <51064F9D.204@fischer-tech.eu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:35:48 -0000 Le 28/01/2013 11:14, Dr. Hans-Joachim Fischer a écrit : > > Why are you so much focused on vehicle industry and ETSI? What they > are doing is just a very small slice of C-ITS, and it is without a > business model. The real C-ITS happens together with the > infrastructure guys. Right, I am also looking to identify the infrastructure guys and about the real Cooperative-ITS. When speaking to a telephone operator (controlling this 3G and 4G networks, and very pertinent to vehicles), the long range Wireless LAN standards and infrastructures (aka 802.11p) is little if known at all. What kind of infrastructure you mention? The communication infrastructure deployed along the roads (like emergency call booths)? Which infrastructure? Alex > > > Hans-Joachim Fischer > > http://its-standards.eu > > > > Am 28.01.2013 11:00, schrieb Alexandru Petrescu: >> Hello, >> >> Sorry for the late reply. >> >> We need support from actors in the vehicle industry, vehicle >> equipment manufacturers, OEMs, extra-IETF SDOs specialized in >> vehicular communications (e.g. ETSI ITS), nationwide and EU >> projects and research organizations interested in vehicular >> communications, and more. >> >> I still consider realization of work here. At my organization we >> have several activities for IP vehicular communications. >> >> Prefix exchange for V2V communications was presented in manemo bar >> bof (long ago). This could be one single topic on which a WG >> could be formed (there are at least two participants ready to put >> effort in finalizing a document). >> >> ND-Prefix-Delegation for vehicles was drafted and presented to >> 6man WG. >> >> The use of Default Route with DHCPv6 was drafted and presented to >> MIF WG. >> >> The use of PMIPv6 with Network Mobility (for vehicles) was drafted >> and presented to netext WG. >> >> The IP addressing of a network within vehicle using a single IPv6 >> address allocated by a cellular operator is discussed in the v6ops >> WG (draft '64share'). >> >> VIN-based IP addressing scheme for vehicles is a draft to be >> published soon. I will announce it here as well. >> >> All these activities could be gathered together in a single place, >> with visibility to people having interest in vehicular >> communications. Otherwise they may proceed as started in these >> other places. >> >> What are the other ongoing activities at IETF relevant to vehicular >> communications? >> >> Alex >> >> Le 26/01/2013 14:54, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so far. >>> Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to be >>> completed and volunteered. >>> >>> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing >>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 02:52:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B7D621F84B9 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:52:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.053 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.053 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.196, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fX4GQcQQX758 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:52:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE3D21F848B for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0SAq48U026171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:52:04 +0100 Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0SAq4WS010799; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:52:04 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0SAq3CK027646; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:52:04 +0100 Message-ID: <51065853.70108@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:52:03 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Abdussalam Baryun References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:52:07 -0000 Le 28/01/2013 11:17, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : > Hi Alex, > > The MANET may recharter in future, they can include your concerns, > because MANET has general purpose protocols, but I think ITS should > submit its charter before MANET does, so things can go forward for > both groups :) > > I maybe missing something :( Hi Abdussalam, I also think as you that MANET has general purpose protocols, and I also think ITS should focus specifically on IP vehicular communications. The IP vehicular communications need more than just routing protocols, and MANET routing protocols are more than just for vehicular communications. I agree with you. You mention charter. MANET is already a WG and re-chartering is an easier process than starting up from scratch. ITS would need to do 1, 2, 3 BoFs first. Each time with a Charter proposal. Do you think it is time now to draft some proposal about some potential Charter? Alex > > AB > > On 1/28/13, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>> All, >>> >>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS >>> would need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) >>> as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work be >>> taken up in MANET. >> >> Stan, >> >> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some time. >> >> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have >> interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using prefix >> exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix Delegation - >> PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 single-address connecion >> 'sharing' with a cellular operator and a vehicular moving network >> (type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with DHCPv6. >> >> Please let me know. >> >> Yours, >> >> Alex >> >>> >>> Regards, Stan >>> >>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Nabil, >>>> >>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We >>>> will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use >>>> cases and work to be done in this group. This charter needs to >>>> be approved by the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting >>>> so not sure about the status now, >>>> >>>> AB >>>> >>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>>>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should >>>>> we exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so >>>>>> far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that >>>>>> need to be completed and volunteered. >>>>>> >>>>>> AB _______________________________________________ its >>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل >>>>> بنعمرو Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences >>>>> Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences >>>>> Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco >>>>> *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > > From thierry.ernst@inria.fr Mon Jan 28 03:31:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2831421F8815 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:31:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tV-vqKyntchB for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:31:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F64921F87DF for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:31:46 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,551,1355094000"; d="vcf'?scan'208";a="287707" Received: from dhcp-rocq-242.inria.fr ([128.93.62.242]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA; 28 Jan 2013 12:31:44 +0100 Message-ID: <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:31:43 +0100 From: Thierry Ernst Organization: INRIA User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050209050205020108070505" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:31:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050209050205020108070505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. First, it would need a charter, and support from the industry. But more importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, so it means the different issues pertaining to ITS should be brought to VARIOUS existing WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is an important issue for which there is no existing WG that could work on it. This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about vehicular communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru below mostly consider vehicular communications. What ITS really needs is the definition of a common communication architecture and the definition of what features should be comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for ITS use cases. This cannot be done at IETF, and actually already exists at ISO: - ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking As an input to the discussion, please consider reading documents D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web page: http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an analysis of the currently published version of ISO 21210, but new work items have been launched since then to address remaining issues. Regards, Thierry. On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >> All, >> >> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS would >> need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) as what is >> taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work be taken up in >> MANET. > > Stan, > > Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some time. > > I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have interest > could be brought in in MANET WG: > - V2V using prefix exchange > - VIN-based IP addressing scheme > - ND Prefix Delegation > - PMIP-based network mobility > - IPv6 single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator and > a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). > - Default Route with DHCPv6. > > Please let me know. > > Yours, > > Alex > >> >> Regards, Stan >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >> >>> Hi Nabil, >>> >>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We >>> will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use >>> cases and work to be done in this group. This charter needs to be >>> approved by the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting so not >>> sure about the status now, >>> >>> AB >>> >>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should we >>>> exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>> >>>> >>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so >>>>> far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need >>>>> to be completed and volunteered. >>>>> >>>>> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل بنعمرو >>>> Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences Simulation and >>>> Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay >>>> Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 >>>> http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>> >>>> * >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > * >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its --------------050209050205020108070505 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="thierry_ernst.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="thierry_ernst.vcf" YmVnaW46dmNhcmQNCmZuOlRoaWVycnkgIEVybnN0DQpuOkVybnN0O1RoaWVycnkgDQpvcmc6 SU5SSUEgLSBQcm9qZWN0IFRlYW0gSU1BUkEgLSBMYVJBIEpSVQ0KdGVsO3dvcms6KzMzIDEg Mzk2MyA1OSAzMA0KdGVsO2ZheDorMzMgMSAzOSA2MyA1NCA5MQ0KdGVsO2NlbGw6KzMzIDYg NzYgNTYgMjUgOTYNCnVybDpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmxhcmEucHJkLmZyDQp2ZXJzaW9uOjIuMQ0K ZW5kOnZjYXJkDQoNCg== --------------050209050205020108070505-- From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 03:33:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F4421F880B for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:33:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AQe3k7hbEA-n for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f48.google.com (mail-pb0-f48.google.com [209.85.160.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B94F21F842C for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:33:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f48.google.com with SMTP id wy12so1419702pbc.35 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:33:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=c3bW94SLvSsnEu22vweDyIeNwTT4LljzXRres9zupO4=; b=nUwrauDZWK3EK4ZP9sJBcL84oqZ17ROIjYnoJgCsyWYwSdlSJuYmhZUNBid6ZRyF4d eoRMth5uwD/4RXnUZ3XAwplOwnbHUrCs7hTeRPvBQMA90C64IS9bL/UURbFi98w+Mc5c peuiYOYJH93bG/ArQnNTNNy1JJrD+o7Kc0rHnUMp0HHlvAiEKvKjq+ILz74L8qqIa618 LLxwu0CBhNznkI49QctyO4NqEvGqwG1S9FdqQR+QDna5celFAUrSkWLopunKLjvhNWff NpU7O8E3b8ll2P7cTzEDzU4IpJ5MmtaBMN3fdoR7ky7jN7jVlYxknEv0hXymIFgp5mqB 71NQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.80.202 with SMTP id t10mr35050408pax.81.1359372791112; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:33:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:33:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <51065853.70108@gmail.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <51065853.70108@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:33:10 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Alexandru Petrescu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:33:31 -0000 Hi Alex, IMO, we need to discuss the charter on the list, so no others can include such ideas in other group charter. We will need some advise from the AD of Area that we want to submit to. We will need to have clear initial I-Ds that support the main points of the ITS charter, which I think we need to prepare with discussions, > Do you think it is time now to draft some proposal about some potential > Charter? This question should be answered by all as well. For me, Yes, and disscussing it on the list and the editor collecting participants' suggestions including suggestions of the name of the WG. We may have done that discussion of use-cases of ITS which is good for initial drafts. However, I am not sure about the submit right time for success, but like to leave it to be flexible in future while seeing discussions in the I-Ds and charter proposal direction. I will try to read procedures of creating WG and BoF, which I am not much familiar with, AB From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 03:55:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0FA21F87FE for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:55:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9BVTenXPgxzR for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f43.google.com (mail-pb0-f43.google.com [209.85.160.43]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71A221F8433 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f43.google.com with SMTP id jt11so1436012pbb.16 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:55:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=MtIM8kiNUN9ly6BjQ0H8N3qBHqx6TXXnC6gjplbih5o=; b=sbOTuqhTLLsv6cGrD4XFfeiTf4GElTHIr55XmW61vmEblvM0tBdr35P2Qr8yNr3J4e mmZTRF/VrH/gVh56sC+j+dpSQD2tmmEFrRsg2qE6TySO1ZTeD1aHPup9KG9zZh7JoIMG 0M3Yg+PXEWxPNbfDn6SsLVEedB8LVbJs5NRBNtm/qIZ9rek+ai+NPl3QzfPIl0x4Ipim ap7W4A8LqPuX6ix9MfmWohrWEPmbd7mQ1W8clJEpcO/TElzg3c60EQefCkxW6wGKfw2+ gUssU9Hx6RIFUBBb9/UZBH1Vx9Y3bjVW6NalEzFmg1mlmSwQSfKVi/66e4yJ3F9eic4n oCgw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.72.226 with SMTP id g2mr35064241pav.67.1359374132398; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:55:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:55:32 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Thierry Ernst Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:55:33 -0000 Hi Thierry, and All I disagree, on that if other WG can (not-welling to) work on something of ITS we should not open a new one, I remember that a WG once opened another WG with same participants but for a different application for that WG but know closed, comments in line; On 1/28/13, Thierry Ernst wrote: > > Dear all, > > At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. First, it > would need a charter, and support from the industry. But more > importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, Where does that rule apply in the WG procedure, is that a condition? I think it depends on requirements and participants' welling. Why industry is driving IETF what about others, I thought that IETF is about the community not just one sector of the community. IETF is part of the Internet World not the industry. > so it means the > different issues pertaining to ITS should be brought to VARIOUS existing > WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is an important issue for > which there is no existing WG that could work on it. > I don't see any WG in IETF can work on the ITS so far, their working depends on their Charter and their Charter do not include ITS, so we are the only ones trying to do that such work into IETF, > This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about vehicular > communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru below mostly > consider vehicular communications. > > What ITS really needs is the definition of a common communication > architecture and the definition of what features should be comprised for > an IPv6 networking stack deployed for ITS use cases. Why needs definitions, the customer already defined their needs to ITS, so our group in IETF are following their needs, and including industry needs. >This cannot be done > at IETF, and actually already exists at ISO: > - ISO 21217 - Architecture > - ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking > We may have different views in the Internet Community. Was it discussed in IETF if not then we Should do and no one should stop such improvements. Nothing is perfect ;) > As an input to the discussion, please consider reading documents D2.1 > and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web page: > http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an analysis of the > currently published version of ISO 21210, but new work items have been > launched since then to address remaining issues. > I thank you for the pointer. I will follow your advise to read them, for my input, if I have misunderstood please advise, AB From jsklein@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 05:17:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB28321F880B for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:17:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YNJW7STPQryE for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:17:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qe0-f48.google.com (mail-qe0-f48.google.com [209.85.128.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5E221F86FF for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:17:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qe0-f48.google.com with SMTP id 3so806781qea.7 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:17:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=glBCLSw404EVykpirRdRGUOT8LU+L6HBKJ+1IzI4neI=; b=VgvW37xmZqpYfzZjfSQ2ZaqeAJJplYgrm5rfI7yF8UAzrp/xdPQvMV1CS1WK7KESkf wfJX0qt1rafQ6khDCne5zue84d1UXUAUAhxM8EjsecuwHuDXqzTMK/6elYUJeH+OlXFg UTucy8y7iQxzRnG9pDEia0ZwvrCAYNA4x4ZgY0fe6Z3z/ShMEjak24RlprN+2weblI/Z 8lvdrZqTFitciwsY0ufhDH36fKn4jD7fM14qGMM8ohtiUvGq+ewUbJ9TTkE5vMvDueSw VKJdZcul+Hl5tSSAw0aryW6qgklpBCJMMnw8tKAtPygmjm64qzD5no2HpBKoyVhK+2Yj 3AQg== X-Received: by 10.229.170.194 with SMTP id e2mr2763152qcz.48.1359379022102; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:17:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.105.103 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:16:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> From: Joe Klein Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 08:16:42 -0500 Message-ID: To: Thierry Ernst Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:17:03 -0000 I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO 21217 - Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads to deaths and damage to property? Or should these standards remain in the public domain, for researches to review and validate? Just my 2 cents. Joe On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst wro= te: > > Dear all, > > At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. First, it wou= ld > need a charter, and support from the industry. But more importantly, IETF > WGs are not usually sector-driven, so it means the different issues > pertaining to ITS should be brought to VARIOUS existing WGs, and a WG sho= uld > only be created if there is an important issue for which there is no > existing WG that could work on it. > > This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about vehicular > communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru below mostly consid= er > vehicular communications. > > What ITS really needs is the definition of a common communication > architecture and the definition of what features should be comprised for = an > IPv6 networking stack deployed for ITS use cases. This cannot be done at > IETF, and actually already exists at ISO: > - ISO 21217 - Architecture > - ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking > > As an input to the discussion, please consider reading documents D2.1 and > D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web page: > http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an analysis of the > currently published version of ISO 21210, but new work items have been > launched since then to address remaining issues. > > Regards, > Thierry. > > > > > > On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >> >> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a =C3=A9crit : >>> >>> All, >>> >>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS would >>> need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) as what is >>> taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work be taken up in >>> MANET. >> >> >> Stan, >> >> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some time. >> >> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have interest >> could be brought in in MANET WG: >> - V2V using prefix exchange >> - VIN-based IP addressing scheme >> - ND Prefix Delegation >> - PMIP-based network mobility >> - IPv6 single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator and >> a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). >> - Default Route with DHCPv6. >> >> Please let me know. >> >> Yours, >> >> Alex >> >>> >>> Regards, Stan >>> >>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Nabil, >>>> >>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We >>>> will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use >>>> cases and work to be done in this group. This charter needs to be >>>> approved by the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting so not >>>> sure about the status now, >>>> >>>> AB >>>> >>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>>>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should we >>>>> exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so >>>>>> far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need >>>>>> to be completed and volunteered. >>>>>> >>>>>> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- * * *=D8=AA=D8=AD=D9=8A=D8=A7=D8=AA=D9=8A =D8=8C **Cordialement, R= egards* * * * * *=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9= =88 >>>>> Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences Simulation and >>>>> Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay >>>>> Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 >>>>> http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> * >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 05:28:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8103921F8585 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:28:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.067 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.067 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.182, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CU83HwQcilre for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D403621F84D9 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:28:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0SDSiD2015006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:28:44 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0SDShAG002480 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:28:43 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0SDSdpX016547 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:28:43 +0100 Message-ID: <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:28:39 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:28:46 -0000 Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : > I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO 21217 - > Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. > > Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have > cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads to > deaths and damage to property? Does it make any better interoperable as well? EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but not specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it interoperable. One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by somebody who is not IANA nor IEEE? (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype is reserved at IEEE and at IANA http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml) Alex Or should these standards remain in > the public domain, for researches to review and validate? > > Just my 2 cents. > > Joe > > > > On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst > wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. First, >> it would need a charter, and support from the industry. But more >> importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, so it means >> the different issues pertaining to ITS should be brought to VARIOUS >> existing WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is an >> important issue for which there is no existing WG that could work >> on it. >> >> This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about vehicular >> communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru below mostly >> consider vehicular communications. >> >> What ITS really needs is the definition of a common communication >> architecture and the definition of what features should be >> comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for ITS use cases. >> This cannot be done at IETF, and actually already exists at ISO: - >> ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking >> >> As an input to the discussion, please consider reading documents >> D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web page: >> http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an analysis of >> the currently published version of ISO 21210, but new work items >> have been launched since then to address remaining issues. >> >> Regards, Thierry. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>> >>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>>> >>>> All, >>>> >>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS >>>> would need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) >>>> as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work >>>> be taken up in MANET. >>> >>> >>> Stan, >>> >>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some >>> time. >>> >>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have >>> interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using prefix >>> exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix Delegation >>> - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 single-address connecion >>> 'sharing' with a cellular operator and a vehicular moving network >>> (type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with DHCPv6. >>> >>> Please let me know. >>> >>> Yours, >>> >>> Alex >>> >>>> >>>> Regards, Stan >>>> >>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Nabil, >>>>> >>>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. >>>>> We will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as >>>>> use cases and work to be done in this group. This charter >>>>> needs to be approved by the IESG. I have not attended the >>>>> last meeting so not sure about the status now, >>>>> >>>>> AB >>>>> >>>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>>>>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should >>>>>> we exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we >>>>>>> so far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts >>>>>>> that need to be completed and volunteered. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> AB _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل >>>>>> بنعمرو Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences >>>>>> Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences >>>>>> Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University* Meknes, >>>>>> Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From sratliff@cisco.com Mon Jan 28 07:34:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525CC21F87D5 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:34:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AfAtHHI31IK8 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B41021F8573 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:34:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4686; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1359387268; x=1360596868; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=m/I9tLGGvKEb2Ft44Wi6SbzhCSbXqUqvkNpdakrYbG8=; b=HqZVdseIOWtC3poKsNn1iWc/cCv/tuHAORXd3OxEBdU1Vu1mnGg4zdRB 1+vQCIYZVsJNFUYo1PgxZ6tzQm3LeRiB8YKe7ztUGrqOCWYkaEnLLZ0vg QkbYPcAxizHEsG4IVrz/3FpBI+DeswV721EsAIlL7LJJEJoOnh0ppc4/H U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgIFAKmZBlGtJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABEhka3JW4Wc4IeAQEBAwEBAQEgEToLBQsCAQYCGAICBiACAgIfBgsVEAIEDgUIh3cDCQYMkkaafYg8DYlVgSOKbYQCMmEDlDeCcooahRKCd4Ik X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,551,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="169224211" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jan 2013 15:34:28 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com [173.37.183.86]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r0SFYRqq021470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:34:27 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.6.233]) by xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com ([173.37.183.86]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:34:27 -0600 From: "Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" To: Alexandru Petrescu Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? Thread-Index: AQHN+8y4mz/QJixPNEyuIKzlqC2ugJhcD4cAgAAB7QCAAnRFAIAAZgAAgABbKwA= Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:34:26 +0000 Message-ID: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFED60@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.102.54.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:34:29 -0000 DQpPbiBKYW4gMjgsIDIwMTMsIGF0IDU6MDggQU0sIEFsZXhhbmRydSBQZXRyZXNjdSB3cm90ZToN Cg0KPiBMZSAyOC8wMS8yMDEzIDA1OjAyLCBTdGFuIFJhdGxpZmYgKHNyYXRsaWZmKSBhIMOpY3Jp dCA6DQo+PiBBbGwsDQo+PiANCj4+IFRoaXMgaXMganVzdCBvbmUgb3BpbmlvbiwgYnV0IEknZCBs aWtlIHRvIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgd2h5IElUUyB3b3VsZA0KPj4gbmVlZCBpdHMgb3duIElFVEYgZ3Jv dXAuIFRoZSB3b3JrIGhlcmUgaXMgdGhlIHNhbWUgKElNTykgYXMgd2hhdCBpcw0KPj4gdGFraW5n IHBsYWNlIGluIE1BTkVULiBJIHdvdWxkIHZvdGUgdGhhdCB0aGlzIHdvcmsgYmUgdGFrZW4gdXAg aW4NCj4+IE1BTkVULg0KPiANCj4gU3RhbiwNCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgdGhlIG9mZmVy LiAgSSBjb25zaWRlcmVkIHRoaXMgb2ZmZXIgc2luY2Ugc29tZSB0aW1lLg0KPiANCj4gSSB0cnkg dG8gdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB3aGV0aGVyIHNvbWUgb2YgdGhlc2UgaXRlbXMgb24gd2hpY2ggSSBoYXZl IGludGVyZXN0DQo+IGNvdWxkIGJlIGJyb3VnaHQgaW4gaW4gTUFORVQgV0c6DQo+IC0gVjJWIHVz aW5nIHByZWZpeCBleGNoYW5nZQ0KPiAtIFZJTi1iYXNlZCBJUCBhZGRyZXNzaW5nIHNjaGVtZQ0K PiAtIE5EIFByZWZpeCBEZWxlZ2F0aW9uDQo+IC0gUE1JUC1iYXNlZCBuZXR3b3JrIG1vYmlsaXR5 DQo+IC0gSVB2NiBzaW5nbGUtYWRkcmVzcyBjb25uZWNpb24gJ3NoYXJpbmcnIHdpdGggYSBjZWxs dWxhciBvcGVyYXRvciBhbmQNCj4gIGEgdmVoaWN1bGFyIG1vdmluZyBuZXR3b3JrICh0eXBlICc2 NHNoYXJlJyBvZiB2Nm9wcykuDQo+IC0gRGVmYXVsdCBSb3V0ZSB3aXRoIERIQ1B2Ni4NCj4gDQo+ IFBsZWFzZSBsZXQgbWUga25vdy4NCj4gDQo+IFlvdXJzLA0KPiANCj4gQWxleA0KPiANCg0KQWxl eCwgDQoNClllcywgSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IGFsbCBvZiB0aGVzZSBpc3N1ZXMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGRp c2N1c3NlZCBpbiBNQU5FVC4gQSBsYXJnZSBwb3J0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBuZXR3b3JrcyBJIGRlcGxv eSBhcmUgdGhlIHZlaGljdWxhci10eXBlIG5ldHdvcmtzIHRoYXQgSVRTIGlzIGRpc2N1c3Npbmcu IFNvIGF0IGxlYXN0IGZvciBtZSwgdGhpcyBpcyBhIHZlcnkgZ29vZCBmaXQuIEluc3RlYWQgb2Yg Y3JlYXRpbmcgYSBuZXcgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCwgYW5kIHBvdGVudGlhbGx5IHJ1bm5pbmcgaW50 byB0aGUgY29uZmxpY3RzIHRoYXQgY3JlYXRlcyAocmVmZXJlbmNlIHJlY2VudCBkaXNjdXNzaW9u cyBhYm91dCB0aGUgZGlmZmVyZW5jZSBiZXR3ZWVuIE1BTkVUIGFuZCBST0xMKSwgaXQgd291bGQg YmUgcG9zc2libHkgYSByZS1jaGFydGVyIGZvciBNQU5FVCB0byBpbmNsdWRlIHNvbWUgb2YgdGhl c2UgaXRlbXMuIA0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KU3Rhbg0KDQo+PiANCj4+IFJlZ2FyZHMsIFN0YW4NCj4+ IA0KPj4gT24gSmFuIDI2LCAyMDEzLCBhdCA5OjM0IEFNLCBBYmR1c3NhbGFtIEJhcnl1biB3cm90 ZToNCj4+IA0KPj4+IEhpIE5hYmlsLA0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IEkgdGhpbmsgd2UgYWxyZWFkeSBkb25l IHNvbWUgc3RlcHMgYnV0IG5vdCBzdXJlIGhvdyBmYXIgbm93LiBXZQ0KPj4+IHdpbGwgbmVlZCB0 byBwcm9wb3NlIHRoZSBXRyBhbmQgcHJvdmlkZSB0aGUgV0cgY2hhcnRlciwgYXMgdXNlDQo+Pj4g Y2FzZXMgYW5kIHdvcmsgdG8gYmUgZG9uZSBpbiB0aGlzIGdyb3VwLiBUaGlzIGNoYXJ0ZXIgbmVl ZHMgdG8gYmUNCj4+PiBhcHByb3ZlZCBieSB0aGUgSUVTRy4gSSBoYXZlIG5vdCBhdHRlbmRlZCB0 aGUgbGFzdCBtZWV0aW5nIHNvIG5vdA0KPj4+IHN1cmUgYWJvdXQgdGhlIHN0YXR1cyBub3csDQo+ Pj4gDQo+Pj4gQUINCj4+PiANCj4+PiBPbiAxLzI2LzEzLCBOYWJpbCBCZW5hbWFyIDxiZW5hbWFy NzNAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4+Pj4gSGkgQWxsLA0KPj4+PiANCj4+Pj4gSSdtIHN0aWxs IGludGVyZXN0ZWQgaW4gdGhpcyBsaXN0IGFuZCB3YW50IHRvIGpvaW4gdm9pY2VzDQo+Pj4+IHBy ZXZpb3VzbHkgaGVhcmQgdG8gbWFrZSBpdCBhIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAuIFNvIHdoYXQgc2hvdWxk IHdlDQo+Pj4+IGV4YWN0bHkgZG8sIHRvIGFjaGlldmUgdGhpcyBnb2FsID8NCj4+Pj4gDQo+Pj4+ IA0KPj4+PiAyMDEzLzEvMjYgQWJkdXNzYWxhbSBCYXJ5dW4gPGFiZHVzc2FsYW1iYXJ5dW5AZ21h aWwuY29tPg0KPj4+PiANCj4+Pj4+IEhpIEFsbCwNCj4+Pj4+IA0KPj4+Pj4gSSB3YXMgaW50ZXJl c3RlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGdyb3VwIGJ1dCBub3Qgc3VyZSB3aGVyZSBhcmUgd2Ugc28NCj4+Pj4+IGZh ci4gSXMgdGhlcmUgcHJvZ3Jlc3MsIG9yIGlzIHRoZXJlIGlzc3Vlcy9lZmZvcnRzIHRoYXQgbmVl ZA0KPj4+Pj4gdG8gYmUgY29tcGxldGVkIGFuZCB2b2x1bnRlZXJlZC4NCj4+Pj4+IA0KPj4+Pj4g QUIgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18gaXRzIG1h aWxpbmcNCj4+Pj4+IGxpc3QgaXRzQGlldGYub3JnIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxt YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXRzDQo+Pj4+PiANCj4+Pj4gDQo+Pj4+IA0KPj4+PiANCj4+Pj4gLS0gKiAq ICrYqtit2YrYp9iq2Yog2IwgKipDb3JkaWFsZW1lbnQsIFJlZ2FyZHMqICogKiAqICogKtmG2KjZ itmEINio2YbYudmF2LHZiA0KPj4+PiBOYWJpbCBCZW5hbWFyKiBQcm9mZXNzb3Igb2YgY29tcHV0 ZXIgc2NpZW5jZXMgU2ltdWxhdGlvbiBhbmQNCj4+Pj4gTW9kZWxpc2F0aW9uIExhYm9yYXRvcnkg SHVtYW4gU2NpZW5jZXMgRmFjdWx0eSBvZiBNZWtuZXMgTW91bGF5DQo+Pj4+IElzbWFpbCogKlVu aXZlcnNpdHkqIE1la25lcywgTW9yb2NjbyAqR1NNOiAqICorIDIxMiA2IDcwODMyMjM2DQo+Pj4+ IGh0dHA6Ly9uYWJpbGJlbmFtYXIuY29tLw0KPj4+PiANCj4+Pj4gKg0KPj4+PiAtLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPj4+PiANCj4+Pj4gDQo+Pj4+IA0KPiAqDQo+Pj4+IA0KPj4+IF9fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fIGl0cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QNCj4+PiBpdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5m by9pdHMNCj4+IA0KPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18gaXRzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gaXRzQGlldGYub3JnIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYu b3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXRzDQo+PiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBpdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IGl0 c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2l0cw0K DQo= From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 09:25:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F1D921F86CE for ; 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Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:25:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFED60@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFED60@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:25:39 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: "Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , "" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:25:40 -0000 I have no objection as only if the participants in this group (after rough consensus) are happy to do such discussion in MANET WG, because I am already participating in both as some do :-) I prefer another approach. Why not who interested in MANET WG participants join here and discuss ITS in this list, to make a value for this list and the efforts done before for this group at least, and then we can see which direction we will go as consensus. It is inscope to discuss ITS here but I think still out of scope in MANET WG (not chartered yet). I think names of groups don't matter it is the effort and welling of participants that make the change in technology, AB On 1/28/13, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) wrote: > > On Jan 28, 2013, at 5:08 AM, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > >> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a =E9crit : >>> All, >>> >>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS would >>> need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) as what is >>> taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work be taken up in >>> MANET. >> >> Stan, >> >> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some time. >> >> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have interest >> could be brought in in MANET WG: >> - V2V using prefix exchange >> - VIN-based IP addressing scheme >> - ND Prefix Delegation >> - PMIP-based network mobility >> - IPv6 single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator and >> a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). >> - Default Route with DHCPv6. >> >> Please let me know. >> >> Yours, >> >> Alex >> > > Alex, > > Yes, I think that all of these issues should be discussed in MANET. A lar= ge > portion of the networks I deploy are the vehicular-type networks that ITS= is > discussing. So at least for me, this is a very good fit. Instead of creat= ing > a new working group, and potentially running into the conflicts that crea= tes > (reference recent discussions about the difference between MANET and ROLL= ), > it would be possibly a re-charter for MANET to include some of these item= s. > > > Regards, > Stan > From sratliff@cisco.com Mon Jan 28 09:36:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A85221F8928 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:36:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0kpaW+X9wxZL for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:36:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC8621F8930 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:36:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2874; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1359394596; x=1360604196; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=PCQAXIwb70JOuaDVIA0oqZwdd10aNO64atDmM9cQ8uM=; b=I2DqxyTtjbBa39Dqd3VgRg6OUNBMp5h3k3GbDkK6qtZg+w4hu7oikj9p bVV2oYw4ME2UbbbT7Q+/S+mGj5V7VN5PA40fEd1cE6ixzQ9Nv2/dF0WNw q0GoVUg4BiUxfgE50gqdWLDL2VwuleUA4R3hWWkjqRjkGq8B6Vlfw7hfG U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EALe1BlGtJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABEvlQWc4IeAQEBAwEBAQFrCwULAgEIGAokJwslAgQOBQgTh3AGDMAJBJBEYQOILJ4pgneCJA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,553,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="166313026" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jan 2013 17:36:32 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com [173.36.12.76]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r0SHaWKw012065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:36:32 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.6.233]) by xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com ([173.36.12.76]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:36:32 -0600 From: "Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" To: Abdussalam Baryun Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? Thread-Index: AQHN+8y4mz/QJixPNEyuIKzlqC2ugJhcD4cAgAAB7QCAAnRFAIAAZgAAgABbKwCAAB8TgIAAAwmA Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:36:31 +0000 Message-ID: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFF51E@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFED60@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.102.54.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <4D2D38D2DF968045A7681011B1B5C983@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , "" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:36:37 -0000 On Jan 28, 2013, at 12:25 PM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > I have no objection as only if the participants in this group (after > rough consensus) are happy to do such discussion in MANET WG, because > I am already participating in both as some do :-) >=20 > I prefer another approach. Why not who interested in MANET WG > participants join here and discuss ITS in this list, to make a value > for this list and the efforts done before for this group at least, and > then we can see which direction we will go as consensus. It is inscope > to discuss ITS here but I think still out of scope in MANET WG (not > chartered yet). >=20 > I think names of groups don't matter it is the effort and welling of > participants that make the change in technology, We agree there - the name of the group doesn't matter. I'm basing my opinio= n on the work to be done - ITS and MANET are operating in the same general = solution space. To create a separate group is to invite the same types of i= ssues that MANET has with ROLL (e.g. when is a sensor net a MANET?). Stan >=20 > AB >=20 >=20 > On 1/28/13, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) wrote: >>=20 >> On Jan 28, 2013, at 5:08 AM, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>=20 >>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a =E9crit : >>>> All, >>>>=20 >>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS would >>>> need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) as what is >>>> taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work be taken up in >>>> MANET. >>>=20 >>> Stan, >>>=20 >>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some time. >>>=20 >>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have interes= t >>> could be brought in in MANET WG: >>> - V2V using prefix exchange >>> - VIN-based IP addressing scheme >>> - ND Prefix Delegation >>> - PMIP-based network mobility >>> - IPv6 single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator and >>> a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). >>> - Default Route with DHCPv6. >>>=20 >>> Please let me know. >>>=20 >>> Yours, >>>=20 >>> Alex >>>=20 >>=20 >> Alex, >>=20 >> Yes, I think that all of these issues should be discussed in MANET. A la= rge >> portion of the networks I deploy are the vehicular-type networks that IT= S is >> discussing. So at least for me, this is a very good fit. Instead of crea= ting >> a new working group, and potentially running into the conflicts that cre= ates >> (reference recent discussions about the difference between MANET and ROL= L), >> it would be possibly a re-charter for MANET to include some of these ite= ms. >>=20 >>=20 >> Regards, >> Stan >>=20 > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From william.d.ivancic@nasa.gov Mon Jan 28 09:51:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9425721F87E0 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WmYRYXdHojxN for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:51:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ndmsnpf02.ndc.nasa.gov (ndmsnpf02.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.0.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3CA321F84C0 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ndjsppt03.ndc.nasa.gov (ndjsppt03.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.1.102]) by ndmsnpf02.ndc.nasa.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4FC108224; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:51:47 -0600 (CST) Received: from ndjshub03.ndc.nasa.gov (ndjshub03-pub.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.1.33]) by ndjsppt03.ndc.nasa.gov (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r0SHplje013205; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:51:47 -0600 Received: from NDJSSCC07.ndc.nasa.gov ([198.117.4.178]) by ndjshub03.ndc.nasa.gov ([10.202.202.162]) with mapi; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:51:47 -0600 From: "Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0)" To: "Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" , Abdussalam Baryun Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:52:15 -0600 Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? Thread-Index: AQHN+8y4mz/QJixPNEyuIKzlqC2ugJhcD4cAgAAB7QCAAnRFAIAAZgAAgABbKwCAAB8TgIAAAwmA//+f0MI= Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFF51E@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/13.11.0.110726 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8327, 1.0.431, 0.0.0000 definitions=2013-01-28_03:2013-01-28, 2013-01-28, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , "" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:51:48 -0000 Agreed. Perhaps ITS can create a draft charter document that can be used t= o modify/update the manet charter. It is much easier to start with something. Will >>=20 >> I think names of groups don't matter it is the effort and welling of >> participants that make the change in technology, >=20 > We agree there - the name of the group doesn't matter. I'm basing my opin= ion > on the work to be done - ITS and MANET are operating in the same general > solution space. To create a separate group is to invite the same types of > issues that MANET has with ROLL (e.g. when is a sensor net a MANET?). >=20 > Stan >=20 >=20 >>=20 From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 10:27:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95ECA21F850B for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:27:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7CaZDpIsB6Kg for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-da0-f44.google.com (mail-da0-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3235521F84F9 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-da0-f44.google.com with SMTP id z20so1369577dae.3 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:27:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=V1rcH/RcM8A+Gd0QFthd3nFVQmS1g5ig89IPDnW0PCg=; b=YklKO0GM65O2gI+uDVYM2FsucfchJ3tSSeensno+RJ+tUz+vMGr6SG4IpB/dFi3afg gQ3KcnApm/QQsVpHi379Org/yrsjvfvSouMuY1xSHy2llBPD+LZIonZIphGeSEByanrU +aQE6BIU3y2aTsbHSheb5ONIlQ3UjGhOHIpn7DlBxzRPrCsCgxysGSF2sqUNxt/FE6z5 vo6Gs2YhKmuCX069Tdxv5waVXZEEhKcDUKaLeGjXwgytTCYxSn9kJK2xJH5rBgoQRQcu Ymmky6s/77+slgcjSuTDygtkpqHM1CnDtHzNXbHDKP/Lmk8zKjOLzgUHMejwqYjLHxCe RJaQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.136.132 with SMTP id qa4mr39136068pbb.166.1359397645968; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:27:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:27:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFF51E@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFED60@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFF51E@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:27:25 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: "Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , "" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:27:26 -0000 >> I think names of groups don't matter it is the effort and welling of >> participants that make the change in technology, > > We agree there - the name of the group doesn't matter. I'm basing my opinion > on the work to be done - ITS and MANET are operating in the same general > solution space. To create a separate group is to invite the same types of > issues that MANET has with ROLL (e.g. when is a sensor net a MANET?). > I don't think that ITS is a general solution, it is specific like ROLL. However, I like to see all participants of ITS what they think also. In my opinion that MANET WG is not ready yet, it is very difficult to move things there, because there works purpose are fiting many situations and scenarios. Which I like, but also feel that this WG is needed. AB From sratliff@cisco.com Mon Jan 28 10:29:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4272421F87FA for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:29:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9XjvDQkD1+Eg for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5421621F88CC for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:29:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=955; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1359397788; x=1360607388; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=AuXOMFvJMLPz5lCz2xMDYEaB4C+VXRc8/DyUSNy3xhk=; b=XfnOK8v79Rwc0X4a+bFjlCiDDjse74xrr8zZwf9Bh7QTBRUDuy9bn9r5 C+ASLbaJHwhtbtBSyJmKTux9lRlbfySzvOUMtEhgIMCW6nu+4++QHRx5P UUJQppYRJSzD7dHD4P+u+gjrOPNM0LBtZpn81JqYiQiehV+Kya3C4bIFt o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAJfCBlGtJXHA/2dsb2JhbABEvlUWc4IeAQEBAwE6PxACAQgiFBAyJQIEDg0Th3AGwA+QRGEDplWCd4Ik X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,554,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="169342566" Received: from rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com ([173.37.113.192]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jan 2013 18:29:48 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com [173.36.12.87]) by rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r0SITlv6025242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:29:47 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.6.233]) by xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com ([173.36.12.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:29:47 -0600 From: "Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" To: Abdussalam Baryun Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? Thread-Index: AQHN+8y4mz/QJixPNEyuIKzlqC2ugJhcD4cAgAAB7QCAAnRFAIAAZgAAgABbKwCAAB8TgIAAAwmAgAAOOYCAAACmgA== Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:29:46 +0000 Message-ID: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFF805@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFED60@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFF51E@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.102.54.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , "" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:29:49 -0000 On Jan 28, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>> I think names of groups don't matter it is the effort and welling of >>> participants that make the change in technology, >>=20 >> We agree there - the name of the group doesn't matter. I'm basing my opi= nion >> on the work to be done - ITS and MANET are operating in the same general >> solution space. To create a separate group is to invite the same types o= f >> issues that MANET has with ROLL (e.g. when is a sensor net a MANET?). >>=20 >=20 > I don't think that ITS is a general solution, it is specific like > ROLL. However, I like to see all participants of ITS what they think > also. In my opinion that MANET WG is not ready yet, it is very > difficult to move things there, because there works purpose are fiting > many situations and scenarios. Which I like, but also feel that this > WG is needed. OK, we disagree. Like you, I await other opinions. Stan From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Mon Jan 28 10:32:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2FE21F85B2 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:32:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gBpqutS9USH1 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-f46.google.com (mail-pa0-f46.google.com [209.85.220.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 519B121F8585 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id kp14so1666959pab.19 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:32:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=sTmAij+wm4bWmZtLXA8yUPSOHJkarOykyd+hE145S50=; b=smJYKxl6nqFGltjQZ3OM9bBiNS+AELRxgnFY14FBRH32KrjnEl5gYVfDXQcst6lqJR 2Gn1mJz11RQG8ARNzt5czHMF/LXy/eY2iSeFT5K88pd4wWrKEB3KahvDP2S1N+c/Au9/ qWhpvxB8u0N12+HSQellz8sPdTMyPFxlBLDd1ruU2pFDjRPHuBLUI9+vDhnm4IU3NTz9 L1lxpqIJZonfWCCg170s+LS9K5ipowyuZR6PSjKj1Z8U2Xwwthy8gyfHJaoQ+sYItpKb dc7u5c1DSOIzXMHe1loUiYCEqTdCuBsPoQVibSjtaSxN5+R+RWBSyxV7vsbz/QkFeV3H jxIg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.222.196 with SMTP id qo4mr39484625pbc.140.1359397947157; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:32:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFF51E@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:32:27 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: "Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , "" , "Stan Ratliff \(sratliff\)" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:32:27 -0000 Hi Will, I agree to discuss technical issues and see opinions. We don't forget that new work of ITS will always be forced to be related to the RFC of MANET by some participants even if that is not the best for the ITS work. I vote for separate WG to make work flow pure and focus, AB On 1/28/13, Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0) wrote: > Agreed. Perhaps ITS can create a draft charter document that can be used > to > modify/update the manet charter. It is much easier to start with > something. > > Will From william.d.ivancic@nasa.gov Mon Jan 28 10:49:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5C221F8967 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:49:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a42tK4GSm0og for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ndjsnpf01.ndc.nasa.gov (ndjsnpf01.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.1.121]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9141721F886D for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ndjsppt02.ndc.nasa.gov (ndjsppt02.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.1.101]) by ndjsnpf01.ndc.nasa.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F96AD0DCA; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:49:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from ndjshub03.ndc.nasa.gov (ndjshub03-pub.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.1.33]) by ndjsppt02.ndc.nasa.gov (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r0SInaYP020894; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:49:36 -0600 Received: from NDJSSCC07.ndc.nasa.gov ([198.117.4.178]) by ndjshub03.ndc.nasa.gov ([10.202.202.162]) with mapi; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:49:36 -0600 From: "Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0)" To: Abdussalam Baryun Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:50:04 -0600 Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? Thread-Index: Ac39hdPJaQZhjQC4QEGEL2IhnqeddAAAnTfL Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/13.11.0.110726 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8327, 1.0.431, 0.0.0000 definitions=2013-01-28_03:2013-01-28, 2013-01-28, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , "" , "Stan Ratliff \(sratliff\)" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:49:37 -0000 A separate WG is not out of the question. Just very difficult. You need to justify the need. Regardless, a draft charter document will be helpful. Going through the process will likely validate the need for a separate WG or, perhaps,show the commonality to other ongoing work. Will ****************************** William D. Ivancic Phone 216-433-3494 Fax 216-433-8705 Networking Lab 216-433-2620 Mobile 440-503-4892 http://roland.grc.nasa.gov/~ivancic > From: Abdussalam Baryun > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:32:27 -0600 > To: "Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0)" > Cc: "Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" , Alexandru Petrescu > , "" > Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? >=20 > Hi Will, >=20 > I agree to discuss technical issues and see opinions. We don't forget > that new work of ITS will always be forced to be related to the RFC of > MANET by some participants even if that is not the best for the ITS > work. I vote for separate WG to make work flow pure and focus, >=20 > AB >=20 > On 1/28/13, Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0) w= rote: >> Agreed. Perhaps ITS can create a draft charter document that can be use= d >> to >> modify/update the manet charter. It is much easier to start with >> something. >>=20 >> Will From budden@nps.edu Mon Jan 28 11:57:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC13021F84D3 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:57:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LAVqKA6YvoeL for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:57:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mule.nps.edu (mule.nps.edu [205.155.65.106]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F5C21F86E4 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:57:48 -0800 (PST) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1359403058-036c92475b5a2e0001-m4RtKs Received: from hercules.ern.nps.edu (hercules.ern.nps.edu [172.20.24.111]) by mule.nps.edu with ESMTP id MeKyjFmmueyH74x0; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:57:38 -0800 (PST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: budden@nps.edu Received: from [172.20.58.67] (172.20.58.67) by smtp.nps.edu (172.20.24.111) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.438.0; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:57:37 -0800 From: Rex Buddenberg X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? To: Alexandru Petrescu In-Reply-To: <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:56:23 -0800 Message-ID: <1359402983.2201.1286.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.2 (2.32.2-1.fc14) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Barracuda-Connect: hercules.ern.nps.edu[172.20.24.111] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1359403058 X-Barracuda-URL: http://205.155.65.106:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at nps.edu X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.2.121163 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:57:54 -0000 Stan, you raise a good point. Further, I've only been on the e-mail wire vis ITS (nobody is paying travel to IETF meetings for me), but there seems to be little business model ... can't find an answer to the 'why are we doing this?' question. MANET certainly pertains to the problem ... whatever it is. So let me try and poke at erecting some context. (Warning: this is a bit US centric). Right now we have two parallel, non-intersecting, emergency services communications systems out there in public safety. - one is the 911 system by which citizens call emergencies in. These calls go to a PSAP (public service answering point), aka dispatcher, which has, without much articulation, become the decision node in the information system. The existing 911 system is coming apart at the seams because all the 'tells' about location go away with cellphone. We have to grip that we need to build a 911 _information_ system, not just a comms system. - the other comms system is the intra-public services comms system. It is a stovepipe system between, say, the fire engines and the fire station. Looking aft to the past, this has traditionally been Land Mobile Radio, 25kHz protocol-free VHF radio links that are good for voice but not much else (yes, there are several data apps crammed into them but they're not good fits). The straight LMR system has been overlaid with a non-routable protocol called P25 over the past decade (since 9/11) and is pushed by DHS in its grant guidance. The rationale for P25 was 'interoperability' but we're a decade into P25 and have no interoperability gains. The public is not part of this (expensive and quickly aging) comms system. Meanwhile there is a 'broadband' push. 'Broadband' doesn't have a decent definition here, but it does have some grant money. There are two fed government grants -- one associated with the National Broadband Plan and the other with legislation that sets up FirstNet, an autonomous corporation within Department of Commerce (don't ask me what that means either). The problem here is that a decade ago we had no federal agencies in this space; today we have at least a half dozen. The 'guidance' is incomplete and contradictory. The perspective for the public services folks is always warped by their LMR/P25 experience. The notion that listen-before-talk is now part of the MAC in a layer 2 protocol just won't sink in;-). More importantly, the entirely legitimate requirement for 'assured service' always warps into a need for segregated spectrum. Further, the infrastructure discussion is unbalanced (and we've seen this in [its] as well) -- radio is always a hard problem. The best way to keep the radio problem manageable is to get the terrestrial-WAN right. But 'backhaul' never gets credibility discussion with the public services folks. The problem crosses standards bodies; IETF properly is a player. So is IEEE/TIA (IEEE 802.16, TIA LTE). There are application design issues (end-end security, multicast, manageability) that transcend IETF standards. And data interoperability issues that are outside IETF scope. (several standards groups here, OASIS is one. Coherence? Hardly. And, as we're obviously feeling in the [its] discussion, there are mobile platforms involved. Automobiles are the bulk, but you can make scenarios that involve aircraft and watercraft too. Alex has done well trying to get some activity in [its], but we've come nowhere near defining a scope ... the [its] problem, viewed through the emergency services prism, is all over the place. And critically important -- the next guy in the ambulance may be you. This lack of scope (or too narrow a scope) is the part that has me hung up. Rather than state the question of why MANET isn't good enough, suggest we turn the question around ... just what is it that we need? This is a restate, but suggest that it might be a use case that focuses: instrumented ambulance. Consider the case of a casualty in an ambulance (and there may be >1 casualty and >1 ambulance). We want to attach a bunch of sensors to the casualty and make that data appear at least two places: locally for the EMT's use and at the ER in the hospital for the MD looking over the EMT's shoulder. Other data in the ambulance, like it's location, also needs to be exported (this probably to the PSAP for tactical display, routing and other reasons). There are several dimensions of comms problem -- routing table volatility is only one. There's a great big operational availability (Ao) problem that is often ignored. There are multicast problems -- the data needs to go >1 place. There are application design problems -- end-end security goes at the top of the list, but include multicast and manageability. The good news is that we have standards-based solutions for just about all of these problems ... in a half dozen different standards bodies. [ITS] is the closest we've gotten to getting a grip on them, at least within IETF. On Mon, 2013-01-28 at 11:08 +0100, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : > > All, > > > > This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS would > > need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) as what is > > taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work be taken up in > > MANET. > > Stan, > > Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some time. > > I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have interest > could be brought in in MANET WG: > - V2V using prefix exchange > - VIN-based IP addressing scheme > - ND Prefix Delegation > - PMIP-based network mobility > - IPv6 single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator and > a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). > - Default Route with DHCPv6. > > Please let me know. > > Yours, > > Alex > > > > > Regards, Stan > > > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > > > >> Hi Nabil, > >> > >> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We > >> will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use > >> cases and work to be done in this group. This charter needs to be > >> approved by the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting so not > >> sure about the status now, > >> > >> AB > >> > >> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: > >>> Hi All, > >>> > >>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices > >>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should we > >>> exactly do, to achieve this goal ? > >>> > >>> > >>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun > >>> > >>>> Hi All, > >>>> > >>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so > >>>> far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need > >>>> to be completed and volunteered. > >>>> > >>>> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing > >>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> <>>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل بنعمرو > >>> Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences Simulation and > >>> Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay > >>> Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 > >>> http://nabilbenamar.com/ > >>> > >>> * > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> > >>> > * > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list > >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From william.d.ivancic@nasa.gov Mon Jan 28 12:15:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E98F21F8A08 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:15:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yxT5e67tOKJb for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:15:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ndmsnpf02.ndc.nasa.gov (ndmsnpf02.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.0.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25B921F89E9 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ndjsppt03.ndc.nasa.gov (ndjsppt04.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.1.103]) by ndmsnpf02.ndc.nasa.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id E974DD000E; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:15:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from ndjshub04.ndc.nasa.gov (ndjshub04-pub.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.1.34]) by ndjsppt04.ndc.nasa.gov (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r0SKFqlj017770; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:15:52 -0600 Received: from NDJSSCC07.ndc.nasa.gov ([198.117.4.178]) by ndjshub04.ndc.nasa.gov ([10.202.202.163]) with mapi; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:15:52 -0600 From: "Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0)" To: Rex Buddenberg , Alexandru Petrescu Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:16:19 -0600 Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? Thread-Index: Ac39kcUD5BEwEmMVSS6IDMXoWEo4yQAApAug Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1359402983.2201.1286.camel@localhost.localdomain> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/13.11.0.110726 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8327, 1.0.431, 0.0.0000 definitions=2013-01-28_03:2013-01-28, 2013-01-28, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: "its@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:15:56 -0000 UmV4Lg0KDQpJIGFtIG5vdCBhZHZvY2F0aW5nIHRoaXMgc29sdXRpb24uIEZ1cnRoZXJtb3JlLCBJ IGJlbGlldmUgdGhlcmUgYXJlIHNpbWlsYXINCm9mZmVyaW5ncyBmcm9tIG90aGVyIGNvbXBhbmll cy4NCg0Kd3d3LnR3aXN0cGFpci5jb20vDQoNCkJ1dCwgSSB0aGluayB0aGlzIGlzIHRoZSBwcm9i bGVtIHNwYWNlIHlvdSByZWZlciB0byBpbiB5b3VyIGVtYWlsIGJlbG93LiAgSXQNCmlzIGEgc3lz dGVtIG9mIGRpc2pvaW50IHJhZGlvIHN5c3RlbXMgcHJvYmxlbS4gIE1hbnkgd2hpY2ggZG8gbm90 IHN1cHBvcnQgSVANCmF0IGFsbC4gIEJ1dCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIHJlYXNvbiBmb3Igbm90IHB1dHRp bmcgYWxsIHlvdXIgZWdncyBpbiBvbmUgYmFza2V0Lg0KUHVibGljIHNhZmV0eSBjb21tdW5pY2F0 aW9uIHN5c3RlbXMgaGF2ZSB0byB3b3JrIHRvIHNvbWUgbWluaW11bSBkZWdyZWUNCmkuZS4sIHZv aWNlIHdoZW4gYWxsIGVsc2UgZmFpbHMuDQoNCkkgc3VzcGVjdCBJVFMgd291bGQgY29tcGxpbWVu dCwgYnV0IG5vdCByZXBsYWNlIG1hbnkgb2YgdGhlc2Ugc3lzdGVtcy4NCg0KV2lsbA0KDQoNCg0K DQoNCg0KPiBGcm9tOiBSZXggQnVkZGVuYmVyZyA8YnVkZGVuQG5wcy5uYXZ5Lm1pbD4NCj4gRGF0 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Pj4gDQo+Pj4+PiANCj4+ICoNCj4+Pj4+IA0KPj4+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXyBpdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+Pj4+IGl0c0BpZXRmLm9y ZyBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2l0cw0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IF9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fIGl0cyBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QNCj4+PiBpdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9pdHMNCj4+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gaXRzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gaXRzQGlldGYub3Jn DQo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2l0cw0KPiANCj4gDQo+ IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IGl0cyBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gaXRzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxt YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXRzDQoNCg== From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Tue Jan 29 10:52:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7302B21F84DC for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:52:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gafms-bPcU20 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-da0-f46.google.com (mail-da0-f46.google.com [209.85.210.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50B021F84D5 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-da0-f46.google.com with SMTP id p5so355054dak.5 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:52:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=a92OVbP7ZW50On/mlbfxpo6kT4TXWqfwcudpdDSksSg=; b=QL13/9zrL5Z34Xj1IR/99uEG5KXz+wYqA7Y9VTGmx5kNOmGVEMXAsGxtop/3F78+xN A2P6MZCpgIUnXeRPpOVBWJ0/CixNZT1yE/T05IYVGhXz2iiYED9ek28iHVL+aafYONWX qKbjM5NKfZhk8mWA/JFp9rdMi8fmLuZwssEoxBSmBJT1yoMMzsCc1fr5Nqfr+905I9wy bqdn287H10yL+HKyb9diKsiQVV/UawxbCslOqtiZTp6VmrSbTiRMGS7xt38lhxyUqElr CG3kq4E0fXBgOHdZIMFlnp6dhC+8/9i70WwzB4w0xBfUsgB+e5d1EPOVhedSrJSJmK8B PS8Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.222.196 with SMTP id qo4mr4836792pbc.140.1359485534426; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:52:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1359402983.2201.1286.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <1359402983.2201.1286.camel@localhost.localdomain> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 19:52:14 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Rex Buddenberg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:52:19 -0000 On 1/28/13, Rex Buddenberg wrote: > Rather than state the question of why MANET isn't good enough, suggest > we turn the question around ... just what is it that we need? If you read the discussion I think the use case of ITS is clear, but your example of public safety is closer for MANET WG > > > This is a restate, but suggest that it might be a use case that focuses: > instrumented ambulance. > Consider the case of a casualty in an ambulance (and there may be >1 > casualty and >1 ambulance). We want to attach a bunch of sensors to the > casualty and make that data appear at least two places: locally for the > EMT's use and at the ER in the hospital for the MD looking over the > EMT's shoulder. Other data in the ambulance, like it's location, also > needs to be exported (this probably to the PSAP for tactical display, > routing and other reasons). > There are several dimensions of comms problem -- routing table > volatility is only one. There's a great big operational availability > (Ao) problem that is often ignored. > There are multicast problems -- the data needs to go >1 place. > There are application design problems -- end-end security goes at the > top of the list, but include multicast and manageability. > > The good news is that we have standards-based solutions for just about > all of these problems ... in a half dozen different standards bodies. > [ITS] is the closest we've gotten to getting a grip on them, at least > within IETF. I think we need a roadmap for the way we can work together and delegate tasks. We need initial drafts for the ITS to start including charter draft or scope draft AB From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Tue Jan 29 11:22:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7877821F888C for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:22:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cEBgP+-dzu-t for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-da0-f48.google.com (mail-da0-f48.google.com [209.85.210.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A1721F8884 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:22:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-da0-f48.google.com with SMTP id k18so374237dae.7 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:22:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=ncPT8IJcdEUv2OiQQpoch0PBtT3YhkivDnFvUZkUNd0=; b=tmJg71Rt7iQsLuT9jUZQqLSChcD4ne3fdJ9nTZ7Y42mIHvWDGXLY4cm/o6ffyO1hDW 01U+qulTvgZJx/V/tpP2wk8ujIN56vrt545ridhahHmBe4M5e9ac+IrDHvcyd7EwHeWw Or95KmjWfn01ktDW+0QBgn9M0ZSLPlOM5/zt5XrW/NPJ/ga3pvz8sb0A5/OmbHfQ5NPT 3WTDjXF196QdaPp3QwC5tMNn9Ou1CiB1eSOjXCaIfAH9J8Ld7s0fRLjY+aLT0z0Pl+NR +HYsumFfa1X9P2OKb6kj7y9tnjPPdk55zXC0gYEoXYJYN+XXYapiVr5lBVOVaaZYf+03 UJHQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.232.195 with SMTP id tq3mr5211799pbc.70.1359487371649; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:22:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:22:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:22:51 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: its Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [its] Discussing ITS initial drafts for progress X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 19:22:58 -0000 Hi All There was in the past a message [1] that refered to some drafts and scenarios, I think it will be good if we start with the special scenario for ITS and get some input drafts of framework. I found this draft [2] which is a progress start toward the WG, I think is useful for discussion and focus, however, is there other drafts that I missed because I think there are about few other ITS drafts, please advise, [1] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/its/current/msg00001.html [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petrescu-its-scenarios-reqs-01 Regards AB From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Tue Jan 29 11:31:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9738621F84D7 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:31:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ePeem8zvOXrD for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:31:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-f43.google.com (mail-pa0-f43.google.com [209.85.220.43]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222B821F84C2 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id fb10so585639pad.30 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:31:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=4pjI9Ml2sl/gCQZv5NkIx7jddkhCNdBytJmIrRapsQU=; b=NoYLWqvAAuNREDaCHvRFa7Ce5Sx/XzhJHqDg4eECZgMfiu5vebWwPBnfcbA7ESJw4j PvZe9jO7K062WRZfXXSddNQ+jOHq5LFK3KiNvK6e1mgpNp8W5u5feQkHabPAxBvN/xA5 EAh1BHzy4uHHm/MXdt8PuZvtgfX7uM2zxTTutuLH2b03ByyZqx3QDTpAMKhXL04pNabd 5pqCQ9IFqJEn32dXyT5hbqjcIXCwkZW9loew3XM+U8LrnaKBwIJn8AYIt98xM7xHZwca KgrA8ZG1H1l/I9JYWf6BRHLN+nSEKJn4YavqMJ2IbPafDAMOBLRaZ0LUKa3zQnQdetOK I37A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.79.202 with SMTP id l10mr5338368pax.36.1359487900857; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:31:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.218.134 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:31:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <51064FEB.7010507@gmail.com> References: <51064C3D.8090306@gmail.com> <51064FEB.7010507@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:31:40 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Alexandru Petrescu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 19:31:46 -0000 Hi Alex comment below > Personally I see this as a continuously ongoing informal activity, until > someone shows and kicks it up into a bar BoF, then BoF, then WG. This > is an engagement on at least 1-year length (3 meetings), only to get it > started. Once started, there are about 2-3 years to pass to get some > RFC out. if we have informal meeting, then I suggest we discuss our initial drafts if any available and make them well scoped/written and see how it involves all requirements for formal activity, AB From thierry.ernst@inria.fr Wed Jan 30 01:11:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C5B721F8467 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:11:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hHP1Ch4rhBEx for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:11:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4844E21F844A for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:11:09 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,566,1355094000"; d="vcf'?scan'208,217";a="605021" Received: from dhcp-rocq-242.inria.fr ([128.93.62.242]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA; 30 Jan 2013 10:11:07 +0100 Message-ID: <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:11:07 +0100 From: Thierry Ernst Organization: INRIA User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080509010204090106090709" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:11:14 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080509010204090106090709 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070609060401090404050901" --------------070609060401090404050901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alex, IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use (ETSI TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document available on the ETSI server: ITS(13)000020 Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf Regards, Thierry. On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : >> I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO 21217 - >> Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. >> >> Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have >> cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads to >> deaths and damage to property? > > Does it make any better interoperable as well? > > EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but not > specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it interoperable. > > One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by somebody > who is not IANA nor IEEE? > > (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype is > reserved at IEEE and at IANA > http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml) > > Alex > > Or should these standards remain in >> the public domain, for researches to review and validate? >> >> Just my 2 cents. >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst >> wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. First, >>> it would need a charter, and support from the industry. But more >>> importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, so it means >>> the different issues pertaining to ITS should be brought to VARIOUS >>> existing WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is an >>> important issue for which there is no existing WG that could work >>> on it. >>> >>> This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about vehicular >>> communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru below mostly >>> consider vehicular communications. >>> >>> What ITS really needs is the definition of a common communication >>> architecture and the definition of what features should be >>> comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for ITS use cases. >>> This cannot be done at IETF, and actually already exists at ISO: - >>> ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking >>> >>> As an input to the discussion, please consider reading documents >>> D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web page: >>> http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an analysis of >>> the currently published version of ISO 21210, but new work items >>> have been launched since then to address remaining issues. >>> >>> Regards, Thierry. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>> >>>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>>>> >>>>> All, >>>>> >>>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS >>>>> would need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) >>>>> as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work >>>>> be taken up in MANET. >>>> >>>> >>>> Stan, >>>> >>>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some >>>> time. >>>> >>>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have >>>> interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using prefix >>>> exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix Delegation >>>> - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 single-address connecion >>>> 'sharing' with a cellular operator and a vehicular moving network >>>> (type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with DHCPv6. >>>> >>>> Please let me know. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Stan >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Nabil, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. >>>>>> We will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as >>>>>> use cases and work to be done in this group. This charter >>>>>> needs to be approved by the IESG. I have not attended the >>>>>> last meeting so not sure about the status now, >>>>>> >>>>>> AB >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>>>>>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should >>>>>>> we exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we >>>>>>>> so far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts >>>>>>>> that need to be completed and volunteered. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> AB _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل >>>>>>> بنعمرو Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences >>>>>>> Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences >>>>>>> Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University* Meknes, >>>>>>> Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> > * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its --------------070609060401090404050901 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Alex,

IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use (ETSI TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document available on the ETSI server:

ITS(13)000020 Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking
http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf

Regards,
Thierry.


On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:
Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit :
I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO 21217 -
Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking.

Does this make it any better? Safer?  Should ISO now have
cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads to
deaths and damage to property?

Does it make any better interoperable as well?

EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but not
specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it interoperable.

One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by somebody
who is not IANA nor IEEE?

(see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype is
reserved at IEEE and at IANA
http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml)

Alex

  Or should these standards remain in
the public domain, for researches to review and validate?

Just my 2 cents.

Joe



On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst
<thierry.ernst@inria.fr> wrote:

Dear all,

At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. First,
it would need a charter, and support from the industry. But more
importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, so it means
the different issues pertaining to ITS should be brought to VARIOUS
existing WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is an
important issue for which there is no existing WG that could work
on it.

This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about vehicular
communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru below mostly
consider vehicular communications.

What ITS really needs is the definition of a common communication
architecture and the definition of what features should be
comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for ITS use cases.
This cannot be done at IETF, and actually already exists at ISO: -
ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking

As an input to the discussion, please consider reading documents
D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web page:
http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an analysis of
the currently published version of ISO 21210, but new work items
have been launched since then to address remaining issues.

Regards, Thierry.





On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:

Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit :

All,

This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS
would need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO)
as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work
be taken up in MANET.


Stan,

Thank you for the offer.  I considered this offer since some
time.

I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have
interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using prefix
exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix Delegation
- PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 single-address connecion
'sharing' with a cellular operator and a vehicular moving network
(type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with DHCPv6.

Please let me know.

Yours,

Alex


Regards, Stan

On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote:

Hi Nabil,

I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now.
We will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as
use cases and work to be done in this group. This charter
needs to be approved by the IESG. I have not attended the
last meeting so not sure about the status now,

AB

On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices
previously heard to make it a working group. So what should
we exactly do, to achieve this goal ?


2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>

Hi All,

I was interested in this group but not sure where are we
so far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts
that need to be completed and volunteered.

AB _______________________________________________ its
mailing list its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its




-- * * *تحياتي ، **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل
بنعمرو Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences
Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences
Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University* Meknes,
Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/

*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





*


_______________________________________________ its mailing
list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its


_______________________________________________ its mailing
list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its



_______________________________________________ its mailing list
its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its



_______________________________________________ its mailing list
its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

_______________________________________________ its mailing list
its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its



_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

--------------070609060401090404050901-- --------------080509010204090106090709 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="thierry_ernst.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="thierry_ernst.vcf" YmVnaW46dmNhcmQNCmZuOlRoaWVycnkgIEVybnN0DQpuOkVybnN0O1RoaWVycnkgDQpvcmc6 SU5SSUEgLSBQcm9qZWN0IFRlYW0gSU1BUkEgLSBMYVJBIEpSVQ0KdGVsO3dvcms6KzMzIDEg Mzk2MyA1OSAzMA0KdGVsO2ZheDorMzMgMSAzOSA2MyA1NCA5MQ0KdGVsO2NlbGw6KzMzIDYg NzYgNTYgMjUgOTYNCnVybDpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmxhcmEucHJkLmZyDQp2ZXJzaW9uOjIuMQ0K ZW5kOnZjYXJkDQoNCg== --------------080509010204090106090709-- From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Wed Jan 30 01:39:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FFFB21F8501 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:39:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.071 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.071 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.178, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 556yhFbAoZLw for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D4221F841F for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0U9dTeB000769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:39:29 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0U9dTDV030918 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:39:29 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0U9dK5V016275 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:39:29 +0100 Message-ID: <5108EA48.90003@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:39:20 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> In-Reply-To: <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:39:32 -0000 Le 30/01/2013 10:11, Thierry Ernst a écrit : > > Alex, > > IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use (ETSI > TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document available on > the ETSI server: > > ITS(13)000020 > > Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking > http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf Thierry, I > may be wrong, but here are my thoughts. I am trying to access these URLs you provide above but they are password protected. What is the username and password? The URL indicates ETSI, not IEEE. The IEEE URL for EtherTypes is the following, I believe: http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/ethertype/eth.txt That eth.txt file does not contain 0707 nor 8947. But it does contain, for example 86DD which is 'IPv6'. The 0x0707 EtherType is present in an implementation which is supposed compliant with ETSI ITS (plugtests). Wireshark dump available upon request. Besides, if this is to be about IPv6, I think it should be reserved at IANA as well, in addition to reserving it at IEEE. The IANA URL for IEEE 802 Numbers is at: http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml (the #8947 that you mention above does not seem to figure in this IANA URL). This is why I believe this number should be reserved both as an EtherType at IEEE and at IANA. Yours, Alex > > Regards, Thierry. > > > On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >> Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : >>> I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO 21217 >>> - Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. >>> >>> Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have >>> cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads to >>> deaths and damage to property? >> >> Does it make any better interoperable as well? >> >> EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but not >> specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it >> interoperable. >> >> One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by >> somebody who is not IANA nor IEEE? >> >> (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype is >> reserved at IEEE and at IANA >> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml) >> >> >> Alex >> >> Or should these standards remain in >>> the public domain, for researches to review and validate? >>> >>> Just my 2 cents. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. >>>> First, it would need a charter, and support from the industry. >>>> But more importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, >>>> so it means the different issues pertaining to ITS should be >>>> brought to VARIOUS existing WGs, and a WG should only be >>>> created if there is an important issue for which there is no >>>> existing WG that could work on it. >>>> >>>> This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about >>>> vehicular communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru >>>> below mostly consider vehicular communications. >>>> >>>> What ITS really needs is the definition of a common >>>> communication architecture and the definition of what features >>>> should be comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for >>>> ITS use cases. This cannot be done at IETF, and actually >>>> already exists at ISO: - ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 - >>>> IPv6 Networking >>>> >>>> As an input to the discussion, please consider reading >>>> documents D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web >>>> page: http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an >>>> analysis of the currently published version of ISO 21210, but >>>> new work items have been launched since then to address >>>> remaining issues. >>>> >>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>> All, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why >>>>>> ITS would need its own IETF group. The work here is the >>>>>> same (IMO) as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote >>>>>> that this work be taken up in MANET. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Stan, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some >>>>> time. >>>>> >>>>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I >>>>> have interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using >>>>> prefix exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix >>>>> Delegation - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 >>>>> single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator >>>>> and a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). - >>>>> Default Route with DHCPv6. >>>>> >>>>> Please let me know. >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> >>>>> Alex >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, Stan >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Nabil, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far >>>>>>> now. We will need to propose the WG and provide the WG >>>>>>> charter, as use cases and work to be done in this group. >>>>>>> This charter needs to be approved by the IESG. I have not >>>>>>> attended the last meeting so not sure about the status >>>>>>> now, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> AB >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join >>>>>>>> voices previously heard to make it a working group. So >>>>>>>> what should we exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are >>>>>>>>> we so far. Is there progress, or is there >>>>>>>>> issues/efforts that need to be completed and >>>>>>>>> volunteered. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> AB _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> its mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- * * *تحياتي ، **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * >>>>>>>> *نبيل بنعمرو Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer >>>>>>>> sciences Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human >>>>>>>> Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University* >>>>>>>> Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 >>>>>>>> http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >> * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Jan 30 01:49:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECC6D21F8613 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:49:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.337 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.337 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.261, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e9QDh8NDMtpN for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:49:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BAC721F85E7 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:49:46 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiUGAP0QA1HGmAcF/2dsb2JhbABFgkgjg1ulZIkNAYgjdxZzgh4BAQEBAQIBAQEPEQpBBhUCAQYCDQQBAwEBCw4IBwMCAgIfBgsUAwYIAgQBEggBGYdbAw8BC5EFkFOKKohoDYlVjA2CC4IUMmEDlDYBgnKEcYUphRKCd4FoJBg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,541,1355115600"; d="scan'208,217";a="341641781" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 30 Jan 2013 04:49:54 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC01.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.11]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 30 Jan 2013 04:48:59 -0500 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC01.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.11]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:49:59 -0500 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: Thierry Ernst , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS Thread-Index: AQHN/snRrYqR9cF4yUumjusZpAQEZJhhnQiA Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:49:59 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A49E@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> In-Reply-To: <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.45] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A49EAZFFEXMB04globala_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." 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mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PJAIhsrvg9-z for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91BC21F86EA for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:52:37 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,567,1355094000"; d="vcf'?scan'208,217";a="612602" Received: from dhcp-rocq-242.inria.fr ([128.93.62.242]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA; 30 Jan 2013 10:52:36 +0100 Message-ID: <5108ED64.3010501@inria.fr> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:52:36 +0100 From: Thierry Ernst Organization: INRIA User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <5108EA48.90003@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5108EA48.90003@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010204000407030206070707" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:52:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010204000407030206070707 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060004000508060303090408" --------------060004000508060303090408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ETSI members have access to this document: this letter from Angela N. Thomas / IEEE Registration Authority it reads: /Following is the Ethernet Type Field that you have requested from the IEEE. Please take a moment// //to verify that the information contained in the company address area (above) is correct. If it// //is not entirely correct, please notify the IEEE immediately.// //The Ethertype tutorial on our web site at:// //http://standards.ieee.org/regauth/ethertype/type-tut.html// //It should be stressed that the IEEE assignment committee has made every effort to ensure that// //there is no duplication of assignments, but does not guarantee that duplicate assignments have// //not occurred. We urge that all requests for numbers be administered by one person within your// //company.// //Your Ethernet Type Field number is: #8947// //For more information on the uses of your ethernet type field, please see the relevant standards.// /// Re what Alex wrote, IPv6 works over GeoNetworking which is a protocol defined by ETSI to work over G5 (ETSI's 11p). So, why would you need an additional EtherType ? Regards, Thierry On 30/01/13 10:39, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Le 30/01/2013 10:11, Thierry Ernst a écrit : >> >> Alex, >> >> IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use (ETSI >> TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document available on >> the ETSI server: >> >> ITS(13)000020 >> >> >> Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking >> http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf >> > > Thierry, > > I >> > may be wrong, but here are my thoughts. > > I am trying to access these URLs you provide above but they are password > protected. What is the username and password? > > The URL indicates ETSI, not IEEE. > > The IEEE URL for EtherTypes is the following, I believe: > http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/ethertype/eth.txt > > That eth.txt file does not contain 0707 nor 8947. But it does contain, > for example 86DD which is 'IPv6'. > > The 0x0707 EtherType is present in an implementation which is supposed > compliant with ETSI ITS (plugtests). Wireshark dump available upon > request. > > Besides, if this is to be about IPv6, I think it should be reserved at > IANA as well, in addition to reserving it at IEEE. The IANA URL for > IEEE 802 Numbers is at: > http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml > > (the #8947 that you mention above does not seem to figure in this IANA > URL). > > This is why I believe this number should be reserved both as an > EtherType at IEEE and at IANA. > > Yours, > > Alex > >> >> Regards, Thierry. >> >> >> On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>> Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : >>>> I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO 21217 >>>> - Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. >>>> >>>> Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have >>>> cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads to >>>> deaths and damage to property? >>> >>> Does it make any better interoperable as well? >>> >>> EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but not >>> specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it >>> interoperable. >>> >>> One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by >>> somebody who is not IANA nor IEEE? >>> >>> (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype is >>> reserved at IEEE and at IANA >>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml) >>> >>> >>> > Alex >>> >>> Or should these standards remain in >>>> the public domain, for researches to review and validate? >>>> >>>> Just my 2 cents. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. >>>>> First, it would need a charter, and support from the industry. >>>>> But more importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, >>>>> so it means the different issues pertaining to ITS should be >>>>> brought to VARIOUS existing WGs, and a WG should only be >>>>> created if there is an important issue for which there is no >>>>> existing WG that could work on it. >>>>> >>>>> This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about >>>>> vehicular communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru >>>>> below mostly consider vehicular communications. >>>>> >>>>> What ITS really needs is the definition of a common >>>>> communication architecture and the definition of what features >>>>> should be comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for >>>>> ITS use cases. This cannot be done at IETF, and actually >>>>> already exists at ISO: - ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 - >>>>> IPv6 Networking >>>>> >>>>> As an input to the discussion, please consider reading >>>>> documents D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web >>>>> page: http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an >>>>> analysis of the currently published version of ISO 21210, but >>>>> new work items have been launched since then to address >>>>> remaining issues. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why >>>>>>> ITS would need its own IETF group. The work here is the >>>>>>> same (IMO) as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote >>>>>>> that this work be taken up in MANET. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Stan, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some >>>>>> time. >>>>>> >>>>>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I >>>>>> have interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using >>>>>> prefix exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix >>>>>> Delegation - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 >>>>>> single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator >>>>>> and a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). - >>>>>> Default Route with DHCPv6. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, Stan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Nabil, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far >>>>>>>> now. We will need to propose the WG and provide the WG >>>>>>>> charter, as use cases and work to be done in this group. >>>>>>>> This charter needs to be approved by the IESG. I have not >>>>>>>> attended the last meeting so not sure about the status >>>>>>>> now, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> AB >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join >>>>>>>>> voices previously heard to make it a working group. So >>>>>>>>> what should we exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are >>>>>>>>>> we so far. Is there progress, or is there >>>>>>>>>> issues/efforts that need to be completed and >>>>>>>>>> volunteered. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> AB _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> its mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- * * *تحياتي ، **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * >>>>>>>>> *نبيل بنعمرو Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer >>>>>>>>> sciences Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human >>>>>>>>> Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University* >>>>>>>>> Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 >>>>>>>>> http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its --------------060004000508060303090408 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

ETSI members have access to this document: this letter from Angela N. Thomas / IEEE Registration Authority it reads:
Following is the Ethernet Type Field that you have requested from the IEEE. Please take a moment
to verify that the information contained in the company address area (above) is correct. If it
is not entirely correct, please notify the IEEE immediately.
The Ethertype tutorial on our web site at:
http://standards.ieee.org/regauth/ethertype/type-tut.html
It should be stressed that the IEEE assignment committee has made every effort to ensure that
there is no duplication of assignments, but does not guarantee that duplicate assignments have
not occurred. We urge that all requests for numbers be administered by one person within your
company.
Your Ethernet Type Field number is: #8947
For more information on the uses of your ethernet type field, please see the relevant standards.
 

Re what Alex wrote, IPv6 works over GeoNetworking which is a protocol defined by ETSI to work over G5 (ETSI's 11p). So, why would you need an additional EtherType ?

Regards,
Thierry


On 30/01/13 10:39, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:
Le 30/01/2013 10:11, Thierry Ernst a écrit :

Alex,

IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use (ETSI
TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document available on
the ETSI server:

ITS(13)000020
<http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS%2813%29000020_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf>
 Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking
http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf

Thierry,

I

may be wrong, but here are my thoughts.

I am trying to access these URLs you provide above but they are password
protected.  What is the username and password?

The URL indicates ETSI, not IEEE.

The IEEE URL for EtherTypes is the following, I believe:
http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/ethertype/eth.txt

That eth.txt file does not contain 0707 nor 8947.  But it does contain,
for example 86DD which is 'IPv6'.

The 0x0707 EtherType is present in an implementation which is supposed
compliant with ETSI ITS (plugtests).  Wireshark dump available upon request.

Besides, if this is to be about IPv6, I think it should be reserved at
IANA as well, in addition to reserving it at IEEE.  The IANA URL for
IEEE 802 Numbers is at:
http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml

(the #8947 that you mention above does not seem to figure in this IANA
 URL).

This is why I believe this number should be reserved both as an
EtherType at IEEE and at IANA.

Yours,

Alex


Regards, Thierry.


On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:
Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit :
I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO 21217
- Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking.

Does this make it any better? Safer?  Should ISO now have
cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads to
deaths and damage to property?

Does it make any better interoperable as well?

EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but not
specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it
interoperable.

One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by
somebody who is not IANA nor IEEE?

(see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype is
reserved at IEEE and at IANA
http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml)



Alex

Or should these standards remain in
the public domain, for researches to review and validate?

Just my 2 cents.

Joe



On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst
<thierry.ernst@inria.fr> wrote:

Dear all,

At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed.
First, it would need a charter, and support from the industry.
But more importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven,
so it means the different issues pertaining to ITS should be
brought to VARIOUS existing WGs, and a WG should only be
created if there is an important issue for which there is no
existing WG that could work on it.

This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about
vehicular communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru
below mostly consider vehicular communications.

What ITS really needs is the definition of a common
communication architecture and the definition of what features
should be comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for
ITS use cases. This cannot be done at IETF, and actually
already exists at ISO: - ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 -
IPv6 Networking

As an input to the discussion, please consider reading
documents D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web
page: http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an
analysis of the currently published version of ISO 21210, but
new work items have been launched since then to address
remaining issues.

Regards, Thierry.





On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:

Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit :

All,

This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why
ITS would need its own IETF group. The work here is the
same (IMO) as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote
that this work be taken up in MANET.


Stan,

Thank you for the offer.  I considered this offer since some
time.

I try to understand whether some of these items on which I
have interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using
prefix exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix
Delegation - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6
single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator
and a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). -
Default Route with DHCPv6.

Please let me know.

Yours,

Alex


Regards, Stan

On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote:

Hi Nabil,

I think we already done some steps but not sure how far
now. We will need to propose the WG and provide the WG
charter, as use cases and work to be done in this group.
This charter needs to be approved by the IESG. I have not
attended the last meeting so not sure about the status
now,

AB

On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

I'm still interested in this list and want to join
voices previously heard to make it a working group. So
what should we exactly do, to achieve this goal ?


2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun
<abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>

Hi All,

I was interested in this group but not sure where are
we so far. Is there progress, or is there
issues/efforts that need to be completed and
volunteered.

AB _______________________________________________
its mailing list its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its




-- * * *تحياتي ، **Cordialement, Regards* * * * *
*نبيل بنعمرو Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer
sciences Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human
Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University*
Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236
http://nabilbenamar.com/

*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







*


_______________________________________________ its
mailing list its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its


_______________________________________________ its
mailing list its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its



_______________________________________________ its mailing
list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its



_______________________________________________ its mailing
list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

_______________________________________________ its mailing list
its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its



_______________________________________________ its mailing list
its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its



_______________________________________________ its mailing list
its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its



_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

--------------060004000508060303090408-- --------------010204000407030206070707 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="thierry_ernst.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="thierry_ernst.vcf" YmVnaW46dmNhcmQNCmZuOlRoaWVycnkgIEVybnN0DQpuOkVybnN0O1RoaWVycnkgDQpvcmc6 SU5SSUEgLSBQcm9qZWN0IFRlYW0gSU1BUkEgLSBMYVJBIEpSVQ0KdGVsO3dvcms6KzMzIDEg Mzk2MyA1OSAzMA0KdGVsO2ZheDorMzMgMSAzOSA2MyA1NCA5MQ0KdGVsO2NlbGw6KzMzIDYg NzYgNTYgMjUgOTYNCnVybDpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmxhcmEucHJkLmZyDQp2ZXJzaW9uOjIuMQ0K ZW5kOnZjYXJkDQoNCg== --------------010204000407030206070707-- From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Wed Jan 30 01:53:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 657CE21F8712 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:53:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -11.081 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.081 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.168, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ftnd2UyW5vJD for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2795621F86F5 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:53:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0U9rl60030717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:53:47 +0100 Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0U9rkg6005834 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:53:47 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0U9rjMr013524 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:53:46 +0100 Message-ID: <5108EDAA.90700@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:53:46 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <5108EA48.90003@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5108EA48.90003@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060605020601000900030708" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:53:50 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060605020601000900030708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In private I got hold of a pdf letter from IEEE to ETSI dated January 29th, 2013, which says that the EtherType is #8947. (not sure hexa or decimal). See that letter attached to this email. One would say that things unfold as we speak. I still think that IANA should also allocate it as well. (maybe I'll get another pdf in private telling me it's already done...) Alex Le 30/01/2013 10:39, Alexandru Petrescu a écrit : > Le 30/01/2013 10:11, Thierry Ernst a écrit : >> >> Alex, >> >> IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use >> (ETSI TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document >> available on the ETSI server: >> >> ITS(13)000020 >> >> >> >> Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking >> http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf >> >> > > Thierry, > > I >> > may be wrong, but here are my thoughts. > > I am trying to access these URLs you provide above but they are > password protected. What is the username and password? > > The URL indicates ETSI, not IEEE. > > The IEEE URL for EtherTypes is the following, I believe: > http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/ethertype/eth.txt > > That eth.txt file does not contain 0707 nor 8947. But it does > contain, for example 86DD which is 'IPv6'. > > The 0x0707 EtherType is present in an implementation which is > supposed compliant with ETSI ITS (plugtests). Wireshark dump > available upon request. > > Besides, if this is to be about IPv6, I think it should be reserved > at IANA as well, in addition to reserving it at IEEE. The IANA URL > for IEEE 802 Numbers is at: > http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml > > (the #8947 that you mention above does not seem to figure in this > IANA URL). > > This is why I believe this number should be reserved both as an > EtherType at IEEE and at IANA. > > Yours, > > Alex > >> >> Regards, Thierry. >> >> >> On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>> Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : >>>> I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO >>>> 21217 - Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. >>>> >>>> Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have >>>> cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads >>>> to deaths and damage to property? >>> >>> Does it make any better interoperable as well? >>> >>> EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but >>> not specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it >>> interoperable. >>> >>> One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by >>> somebody who is not IANA nor IEEE? >>> >>> (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype >>> is reserved at IEEE and at IANA >>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml) >>> >>> >>> > >>> Alex >>> >>> Or should these standards remain in >>>> the public domain, for researches to review and validate? >>>> >>>> Just my 2 cents. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. >>>>> First, it would need a charter, and support from the >>>>> industry. But more importantly, IETF WGs are not usually >>>>> sector-driven, so it means the different issues pertaining to >>>>> ITS should be brought to VARIOUS existing WGs, and a WG >>>>> should only be created if there is an important issue for >>>>> which there is no existing WG that could work on it. >>>>> >>>>> This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about >>>>> vehicular communications, though the issues listed by >>>>> Alexandru below mostly consider vehicular communications. >>>>> >>>>> What ITS really needs is the definition of a common >>>>> communication architecture and the definition of what >>>>> features should be comprised for an IPv6 networking stack >>>>> deployed for ITS use cases. This cannot be done at IETF, and >>>>> actually already exists at ISO: - ISO 21217 - Architecture - >>>>> ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking >>>>> >>>>> As an input to the discussion, please consider reading >>>>> documents D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web >>>>> page: http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an >>>>> analysis of the currently published version of ISO 21210, >>>>> but new work items have been launched since then to address >>>>> remaining issues. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why >>>>>>> ITS would need its own IETF group. The work here is the >>>>>>> same (IMO) as what is taking place in MANET. I would >>>>>>> vote that this work be taken up in MANET. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Stan, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since >>>>>> some time. >>>>>> >>>>>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I >>>>>> have interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using >>>>>> prefix exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND >>>>>> Prefix Delegation - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 >>>>>> single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular >>>>>> operator and a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of >>>>>> v6ops). - Default Route with DHCPv6. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, Stan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Nabil, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how >>>>>>>> far now. We will need to propose the WG and provide the >>>>>>>> WG charter, as use cases and work to be done in this >>>>>>>> group. This charter needs to be approved by the IESG. I >>>>>>>> have not attended the last meeting so not sure about >>>>>>>> the status now, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> AB >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join >>>>>>>>> voices previously heard to make it a working group. >>>>>>>>> So what should we exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where >>>>>>>>>> are we so far. Is there progress, or is there >>>>>>>>>> issues/efforts that need to be completed and >>>>>>>>>> volunteered. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> AB _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> its mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * >>>>>>>>> *نبيل بنعمرو Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer >>>>>>>>> sciences Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory >>>>>>>>> Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* >>>>>>>>> *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 >>>>>>>>> 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list 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Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 603F121F87C5 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:59:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0U9xePl000362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:59:40 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0U9xeLF008290 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:59:40 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0U9xd05029191 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:59:40 +0100 Message-ID: <5108EF0B.5050002@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:59:39 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A49E@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A49E@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:59:42 -0000 Hello Dan, Thank you for the email. I think we definitely need a good interface with IEEE about this. Maybe you could ask them whether this number is hexa or decimal, so we know what to put in implementation (e.g. wireshark packet analyzers, and 802.11p/etsi-its implementations). Also, I am interested to learn whether this deserves being reserved at IANA. Alex Le 30/01/2013 10:49, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit : > Hi, > > The documents that you are referring (on the ETSI server) are not freely > accessible. A password is required, and probably only ETSI members have > the access information. > > The responsibility for assigning EtherType values is with the IEEE > Registration Authority. They maintain a public list (updated daily) at > http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/ethertype/eth.txt and > according to this list the value 8947 is not allocated. Now, the public > listing information for EtherTypes bears a disclaimer that says > > * This is a partial listing of all assigned EtherType Fields. Not all > recipients wish to publish their assignment at this time. > > Did ETSI require for this information not to be published? It does not > look useful if they want to encourage interoperability > > Value 0707 mentioned in the thread is not allocated either. > > Let me know if I can help (as IETF liaison to the IEEE-SA). > > Regards, > > Dan > > *From:*its-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Thierry Ernst > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:11 AM > *To:* its@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - > EtherType for ITS > > > Alex, > > IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use (ETSI TC > ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document available on the ETSI > server: > > ITS(13)000020 > > Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking > http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf > > Regards, > Thierry. > > > On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > > Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : > > I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO 21217 - > Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. > > Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have > cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads to > deaths and damage to property? > > > Does it make any better interoperable as well? > > EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but not > specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it > interoperable. > > One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by somebody > who is not IANA nor IEEE? > > (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype is > reserved at IEEE and at IANA > http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml) > > Alex > > Or should these standards remain in > > the public domain, for researches to review and validate? > > Just my 2 cents. > > Joe > > > > On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst > wrote: > > > Dear all, > > At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. First, > it would need a charter, and support from the industry. But more > importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, so it means > the different issues pertaining to ITS should be brought to VARIOUS > existing WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is an > important issue for which there is no existing WG that could work > on it. > > This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about vehicular > communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru below mostly > consider vehicular communications. > > What ITS really needs is the definition of a common communication > architecture and the definition of what features should be > comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for ITS use cases. > This cannot be done at IETF, and actually already exists at ISO: - > ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking > > As an input to the discussion, please consider reading documents > D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web page: > http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an analysis of > the currently published version of ISO 21210, but new work items > have been launched since then to address remaining issues. > > Regards, Thierry. > > > > > > On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > > > Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : > > > All, > > This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS > would need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) > as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work > be taken up in MANET. > > > > Stan, > > Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some > time. > > I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have > interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using prefix > exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix Delegation > - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 single-address connecion > 'sharing' with a cellular operator and a vehicular moving network > (type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with DHCPv6. > > Please let me know. > > Yours, > > Alex > > > > Regards, Stan > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > > > Hi Nabil, > > I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. > We will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as > use cases and work to be done in this group. This charter > needs to be approved by the IESG. I have not attended the > last meeting so not sure about the status now, > > AB > > On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar > wrote: > > > Hi All, > > I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices > previously heard to make it a working group. So what should > we exactly do, to achieve this goal ? > > > 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun > > > > Hi All, > > I was interested in this group but not sure where are we > so far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts > that need to be completed and volunteered. > > AB _______________________________________________ its > mailing list its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل > بنعمروNabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences > Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences > Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University* Meknes, > Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ > > * > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > * > > _______________________________________________ its > mailing > list its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing > list its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing > list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Jan 30 01:59:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA6421F87D1 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:59:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.849 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.849 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.750, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IePf-q3dRMMp for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com (p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com [135.11.29.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4D021F87AA for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:59:53 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFAP0QA1GHCzI1/2dsb2JhbABFgmuDW7cVdxZzgh4BAQEBAwEBAQ8REToGEQQCAQYCDQQBAwEBAQICBg4PAwICAh8GCxQBAgYIAgQBEggBGYdbAw8BC5EFkFOKKohoDYlVgSOKaneBFIIUMmEDlDYBgnKEcYUphRKCd4FoBxcGGA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,541,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="46543272" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 30 Jan 2013 04:59:11 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC04.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.14]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 30 Jan 2013 04:59:40 -0500 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC04.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.14]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 05:00:09 -0500 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: Alexandru Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS Thread-Index: AQHN/s+xrYqR9cF4yUumjusZpAQEZJhhokJQ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:00:08 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A4E4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <5108EA48.90003@gmail.com> <5108EDAA.90700@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5108EDAA.90700@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.45] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:59:56 -0000 SGksDQoNCklmIHRoZSBQREYgbGV0dGVyIGlzIGRhdGVkIDEvMjkgKHllc3RlcmRheSkgdGhhbiB3 ZSBtYXkgc2VlIHRoZSBJRUVFIFJBIGxpc3QgdXBkYXRlZCBzb29uLiANCg0KVGhlcmUgaXMgbm8g bmVlZCBmb3IgSUFOQSB0byBtYWtlIGFuIGFsbG9jYXRpb24gKGlmIHdlIGFyZSBkaXNjdXNzaW5n IEV0aGVyVHlwZXMpLiBUaGUgcmVzcG9uc2liaWxpdHkgZm9yIEV0aGVyVHlwZXMgYXNzaWdubWVu dCBpcyB3aXRoIHRoZSBJRUVFIFJBIGFuZCB0aGUgZmlsZSBhdCBJQU5BIGlzIG9ubHkgaW5mb3Jt YXRpb25hbC4gU2VlIHRoZSBub3RlIGF0IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWFuYS5vcmcvYXNzaWdubWVudHMv aWVlZS04MDItbnVtYmVycy9pZWVlLTgwMi1udW1iZXJzLnhtbC4gDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkRh bg0KDQoNCg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IGl0cy1ib3Vu Y2VzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86aXRzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZg0K PiBBbGV4YW5kcnUgUGV0cmVzY3UNCj4gU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBKYW51YXJ5IDMwLCAyMDEz IDExOjU0IEFNDQo+IFRvOiBpdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtpdHNdIFdoYXQg 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YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXRzDQoNCg== From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Wed Jan 30 02:02:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF97521F87F5 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:02:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -11.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.097, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xq-6nGRtUoOF for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:02:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B56321F87EA for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:01:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0UA1uae009665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:01:56 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0UA1uPO009649; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:01:56 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0UA1tDX030918; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:01:56 +0100 Message-ID: <5108EF94.2040106@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:01:56 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <5108EA48.90003@gmail.com> <5108EDAA.90700@gmail.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A4E4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A4E4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "its@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:02:05 -0000 Le 30/01/2013 11:00, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit : > Hi, > > If the PDF letter is dated 1/29 (yesterday) than we may see the IEEE > RA list updated soon. > > There is no need for IANA to make an allocation (if we are discussing > EtherTypes). The responsibility for EtherTypes assignment is with the > IEEE RA and the file at IANA is only informational. See the note at > http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml. Ok, allocation no, but maybe mention it here: http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml ? Alex > > Regards, > > Dan > > > > >> -----Original Message----- From: its-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandru Petrescu Sent: >> Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:54 AM To: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: >> [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for >> ITS >> >> In private I got hold of a pdf letter from IEEE to ETSI dated >> January 29th, 2013, which says that the EtherType is #8947. (not >> sure hexa or decimal). >> >> See that letter attached to this email. >> >> One would say that things unfold as we speak. >> >> I still think that IANA should also allocate it as well. (maybe >> I'll get another pdf in private telling me it's already done...) >> >> Alex >> >> Le 30/01/2013 10:39, Alexandru Petrescu a écrit : >>> Le 30/01/2013 10:11, Thierry Ernst a écrit : >>>> >>>> Alex, >>>> >>>> IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use >>>> (ETSI TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document >>>> available on the ETSI server: >>>> >>>> ITS(13)000020 >>>> >>> >>>> 20_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking >>>> http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Et >>>> >>>> hernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Thierry, >>> >>> I >>>> >>> may be wrong, but here are my thoughts. >>> >>> I am trying to access these URLs you provide above but they are >>> password protected. What is the username and password? >>> >>> The URL indicates ETSI, not IEEE. >>> >>> The IEEE URL for EtherTypes is the following, I believe: >>> http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/ethertype/eth.txt >>> >>> That eth.txt file does not contain 0707 nor 8947. But it does >>> contain, for example 86DD which is 'IPv6'. >>> >>> The 0x0707 EtherType is present in an implementation which is >>> supposed compliant with ETSI ITS (plugtests). Wireshark dump >>> available upon request. >>> >>> Besides, if this is to be about IPv6, I think it should be >>> reserved at IANA as well, in addition to reserving it at IEEE. >>> The IANA URL for IEEE 802 Numbers is at: >>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml >>> >>> >>> (the #8947 that you mention above does not seem to figure in this >>> IANA URL). >>> >>> This is why I believe this number should be reserved both as an >>> EtherType at IEEE and at IANA. >>> >>> Yours, >>> >>> Alex >>> >>>> >>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>>> Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : >>>>>> I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO >>>>>> 21217 - Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have >>>>>> cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification >>>>>> leads to deaths and damage to property? >>>>> >>>>> Does it make any better interoperable as well? >>>>> >>>>> EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but >>>>> not specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make >>>>> it interoperable. >>>>> >>>>> One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by >>>>> somebody who is not IANA nor IEEE? >>>>> >>>>> (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd >>>>> ethertype is reserved at IEEE and at IANA >>>>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xm >>>>> >>>>> l) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> Alex >>>>> >>>>> Or should these standards remain in >>>>>> the public domain, for researches to review and validate? >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my 2 cents. >>>>>> >>>>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At this stage, I don't think a new working group is >>>>>>> needed. First, it would need a charter, and support from >>>>>>> the industry. But more importantly, IETF WGs are not >>>>>>> usually sector-driven, so it means the different issues >>>>>>> pertaining to ITS should be brought to VARIOUS existing >>>>>>> WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is an >>>>>>> important issue for which there is no existing WG that >>>>>>> could work on it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about >>>>>>> vehicular communications, though the issues listed by >>>>>>> Alexandru below mostly consider vehicular >>>>>>> communications. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What ITS really needs is the definition of a common >>>>>>> communication architecture and the definition of what >>>>>>> features should be comprised for an IPv6 networking stack >>>>>>> deployed for ITS use cases. This cannot be done at IETF, >>>>>>> and actually already exists at ISO: - ISO 21217 - >>>>>>> Architecture - ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As an input to the discussion, please consider reading >>>>>>> documents D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project >>>>>>> web page: http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 >>>>>>> provides an analysis of the currently published version >>>>>>> of ISO 21210, but new work items have been launched since >>>>>>> then to address remaining issues. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand >>>>>>>>> why ITS would need its own IETF group. The work here >>>>>>>>> is the same (IMO) as what is taking place in MANET. I >>>>>>>>> would vote that this work be taken up in MANET. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Stan, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since >>>>>>>> some time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I try to understand whether some of these items on >>>>>>>> which I have interest could be brought in in MANET WG: >>>>>>>> - V2V using prefix exchange - VIN-based IP addressing >>>>>>>> scheme - ND Prefix Delegation - PMIP-based network >>>>>>>> mobility - IPv6 single-address connecion 'sharing' with >>>>>>>> a cellular operator and a vehicular moving network >>>>>>>> (type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with >>>>>>>> DHCPv6. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please let me know. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yours, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, Stan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Nabil, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how >>>>>>>>>> far now. We will need to propose the WG and provide >>>>>>>>>> the WG charter, as use cases and work to be done in >>>>>>>>>> this group. This charter needs to be approved by >>>>>>>>>> the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting so >>>>>>>>>> not sure about the status now, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> AB >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to >>>>>>>>>>> join voices previously heard to make it a working >>>>>>>>>>> group. So what should we exactly do, to achieve >>>>>>>>>>> this goal ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure >>>>>>>>>>>> where are we so far. Is there progress, or is >>>>>>>>>>>> there issues/efforts that need to be completed >>>>>>>>>>>> and volunteered. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> AB >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> its mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * >>>>>>>>>>> *نبيل بنعمرو Nabil Benamar* Professor of computer >>>>>>>>>>> sciences Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory >>>>>>>>>>> Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* >>>>>>>>>>> *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 >>>>>>>>>>> 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Jan 30 02:03:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3FF21F882C for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:03:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.382 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.382 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.218, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RCGz0GAjh6jq for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7C121F87EA for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:03:52 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFAP0QA1GHCzI1/2dsb2JhbABFgmuDW7cVdxZzgh4BAQEBAwEBAQ8REToGEQQCAQYCDQQBAwEBAQICBg4PAwICAh8GCxQBAgYIAgQBEggBGYdbAw8BC5EFkFOKKohoDYlVgSOKaneBFIIUMmEDlDYBgnKEcYUphRKCd4FoBxcGGA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,541,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="341642821" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 30 Jan 2013 05:03:58 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC02.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.12]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 30 Jan 2013 05:03:33 -0500 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC02.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.12]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 05:04:02 -0500 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: Alexandru Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS Thread-Index: AQHN/snRrYqR9cF4yUumjusZpAQEZJhhnQiAgABaPoD//6zVAA== Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:04:02 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A517@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A49E@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <5108EF0B.5050002@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5108EF0B.5050002@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.45] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+ICAgICBpdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gICAgIGl0c0Bp ZXRmLm9yZyA8bWFpbHRvOml0c0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCj4gPiAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pdHMNCj4gPg0KPiA+DQo+ID4NCj4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+IGl0cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QN Cj4gPiBpdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2l0cw0KPiA+DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gaXRzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBpdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0 cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pdHMNCg== From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Jan 30 02:09:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E7F921F8840 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:09:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.391 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.391 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.208, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mGPbVeRP67xk for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:08:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C468821F8767 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:08:58 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgQFAJoQA1GHCzI1/2dsb2JhbABFgmuDW7cVdxZzgh4BAQEBAxIREUUMBAIBCA0EBAEBAwIGHQMCAgIfERQBCAgCBA4FCAEZh1sDDwELoViKKohoDYlVgSOKaoQfMmEDlDYBh2OFKYUSgneCJA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,541,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="386641008" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 30 Jan 2013 05:08:35 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC03.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.13]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 30 Jan 2013 05:08:45 -0500 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC03.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.13]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 05:09:15 -0500 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: Alexandru Petrescu Thread-Topic: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS Thread-Index: AQHN/s+xrYqR9cF4yUumjusZpAQEZJhhokJQgABVnAD//6zL0A== Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:09:14 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A52E@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <5108EA48.90003@gmail.com> <5108EDAA.90700@gmail.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A4E4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <5108EF94.2040106@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5108EF94.2040106@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.45] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "its@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:09:00 -0000 DQoNCg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IEFsZXhhbmRydSBQ ZXRyZXNjdSBbbWFpbHRvOmFsZXhhbmRydS5wZXRyZXNjdUBnbWFpbC5jb21dDQo+IFNlbnQ6IFdl ZG5lc2RheSwgSmFudWFyeSAzMCwgMjAxMyAxMjowMiBQTQ0KPiBUbzogUm9tYXNjYW51LCBEYW4g KERhbikNCj4gQ2M6IGl0c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW2l0c10gV2hhdCBkbyB3 ZSBuZWVkIHRvIG1ha2UgSVRTIFdHIGdvIGZvcndhcmQ/IC0NCj4gRXRoZXJUeXBlIGZvciBJVFMN Cj4gDQo+IExlIDMwLzAxLzIwMTMgMTE6MDAsIFJvbWFzY2FudSwgRGFuIChEYW4pIGEgw6ljcml0 IDoNCj4gPiBIaSwNCj4gPg0KPiA+IElmIHRoZSBQREYgbGV0dGVyIGlzIGRhdGVkIDEvMjkgKHll c3RlcmRheSkgdGhhbiB3ZSBtYXkgc2VlIHRoZSBJRUVFDQo+ID4gUkEgbGlzdCB1cGRhdGVkIHNv b24uDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBUaGVyZSBpcyBubyBuZWVkIGZvciBJQU5BIHRvIG1ha2UgYW4gYWxsb2Nh dGlvbiAoaWYgd2UgYXJlIGRpc2N1c3NpbmcNCj4gPiBFdGhlclR5cGVzKS4gVGhlIHJlc3BvbnNp YmlsaXR5IGZvciBFdGhlclR5cGVzIGFzc2lnbm1lbnQgaXMgd2l0aCB0aGUNCj4gPiBJRUVFIFJB IGFuZCB0aGUgZmlsZSBhdCBJQU5BIGlzIG9ubHkgaW5mb3JtYXRpb25hbC4gU2VlIHRoZSBub3Rl IGF0DQo+ID4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pYW5hLm9yZy9hc3NpZ25tZW50cy9pZWVlLTgwMi1udW1iZXJz L2llZWUtODAyLW51bWJlcnMueG1sLg0KPiANCj4gT2ssIGFsbG9jYXRpb24gbm8sIGJ1dCBtYXli ZSBtZW50aW9uIGl0IGhlcmU6DQo+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWFuYS5vcmcvYXNzaWdubWVudHMvaWVl ZS04MDItbnVtYmVycy9pZWVlLTgwMi1udW1iZXJzLnhtbA0KPiANCj4gPw0KPiANCj4gQWxleA0K PiANCg0KSGkgQWxleGFuZHJ1LA0KDQpZb3UgbmVlZCB0byB0YWxrIHdpdGggSUFOQSBhYm91dCB0 aGlzLiBUaGF0IHBhZ2UgaXMga2VwdCBmb3IgaGlzdG9yaWNhbCByZWFzb25zLCBhcyB0aGUgcmVz cG9uc2liaWxpdHkgZm9yIGFzc2lnbm1lbnRzIGFuZCB0aGUgYXV0aG9yaXRhdGl2ZSBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbiBpcyB3aXRoIHRoZSBJRUVFLiANCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KRGFuDQogDQo= From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Wed Jan 30 02:10:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 509B321F8840 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:10:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.207 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.207 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y8rdzZV12Xq4 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:10:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 758F621F8767 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:10:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0UAARK6005164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:10:27 +0100 Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0UAAQb9013602; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:10:26 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0UAALFf024762; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:10:26 +0100 Message-ID: <5108F18E.7010104@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:10:22 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A49E@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <5108EF0B.5050002@gmail.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A517@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A517@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "its@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:10:32 -0000 Le 30/01/2013 11:04, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit : > Hi Alexandru, > > IEEE talk only hexa in their Ethertype files. I tend to agree that #8947 is a hexadecimal notation also because the sharp sign preceding it, and because if it were decimal it would convert to 22F3 which is already reserved for trill. I just watend to make sure. Alex > > Regards, > > Dan > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: its-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> Alexandru Petrescu >> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:00 PM >> To: its@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - >> EtherType for ITS >> >> Hello Dan, >> >> Thank you for the email. >> >> I think we definitely need a good interface with IEEE about this. >> >> Maybe you could ask them whether this number is hexa or decimal, so we >> know what to put in implementation (e.g. wireshark packet analyzers, and >> 802.11p/etsi-its implementations). >> >> Also, I am interested to learn whether this deserves being reserved at >> IANA. >> >> Alex >> >> Le 30/01/2013 10:49, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit : >>> Hi, >>> >>> The documents that you are referring (on the ETSI server) are not >>> freely accessible. A password is required, and probably only ETSI >>> members have the access information. >>> >>> The responsibility for assigning EtherType values is with the IEEE >>> Registration Authority. They maintain a public list (updated daily) at >>> http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/ethertype/eth.txt and >>> according to this list the value 8947 is not allocated. Now, the >>> public listing information for EtherTypes bears a disclaimer that says >>> >>> * This is a partial listing of all assigned EtherType Fields. Not >> all >>> recipients wish to publish their assignment at this time. >>> >>> Did ETSI require for this information not to be published? It does not >>> look useful if they want to encourage interoperability >>> >>> Value 0707 mentioned in the thread is not allocated either. >>> >>> Let me know if I can help (as IETF liaison to the IEEE-SA). >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> *From:*its-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf >>> Of *Thierry Ernst >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:11 AM >>> *To:* its@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - >>> EtherType for ITS >>> >>> >>> Alex, >>> >>> IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use (ETSI >>> TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document available on the >>> ETSI >>> server: >>> >>> ITS(13)000020 >>> >> 0_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf> >>> Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking >>> http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Eth >>> ernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf >>> >>> Regards, >>> Thierry. >>> >>> >>> On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>> >>> Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : >>> >>> I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO 21217 - >>> Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. >>> >>> Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have >>> cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads to >>> deaths and damage to property? >>> >>> >>> Does it make any better interoperable as well? >>> >>> EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but not >>> specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it >>> interoperable. >>> >>> One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by >> somebody >>> who is not IANA nor IEEE? >>> >>> (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype is >>> reserved at IEEE and at IANA >>> >>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml) >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> Or should these standards remain in >>> >>> the public domain, for researches to review and validate? >>> >>> Just my 2 cents. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. First, >>> it would need a charter, and support from the industry. But more >>> importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, so it means >>> the different issues pertaining to ITS should be brought to >> VARIOUS >>> existing WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is an >>> important issue for which there is no existing WG that could work >>> on it. >>> >>> This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about vehicular >>> communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru below mostly >>> consider vehicular communications. >>> >>> What ITS really needs is the definition of a common communication >>> architecture and the definition of what features should be >>> comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for ITS use cases. >>> This cannot be done at IETF, and actually already exists at ISO: - >>> ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking >>> >>> As an input to the discussion, please consider reading documents >>> D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web page: >>> http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an analysis of >>> the currently published version of ISO 21210, but new work items >>> have been launched since then to address remaining issues. >>> >>> Regards, Thierry. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>> >>> >>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>> >>> >>> All, >>> >>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS >>> would need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) >>> as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work >>> be taken up in MANET. >>> >>> >>> >>> Stan, >>> >>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some >>> time. >>> >>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have >>> interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using prefix >>> exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix Delegation >>> - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 single-address connecion >>> 'sharing' with a cellular operator and a vehicular moving network >>> (type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with DHCPv6. >>> >>> Please let me know. >>> >>> Yours, >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, Stan >>> >>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi Nabil, >>> >>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. >>> We will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as >>> use cases and work to be done in this group. This charter >>> needs to be approved by the IESG. I have not attended the >>> last meeting so not sure about the status now, >>> >>> AB >>> >>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should >>> we exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>> >>> >>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we >>> so far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts >>> that need to be completed and volunteered. >>> >>> AB _______________________________________________ its >>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل >>> بنعمروNabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences >>> Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences >>> Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University* Meknes, >>> Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> its >>> mailing >>> list its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its >> mailing >>> list its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its >> mailing >>> list >>> its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >> list >>> its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Thu Jan 31 04:55:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADFF21F867E for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 04:55:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Bgpq61i-iyx for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 04:55:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1A821F862E for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 04:55:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0VCtqfq025757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:55:53 +0100 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0VCtqXx015986 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:55:52 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0VCtqss026054 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:55:52 +0100 Message-ID: <510A69D7.40806@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:55:51 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A49E@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <5108EF0B.5050002@gmail.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A517@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <5108F18E.7010104@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5108F18E.7010104@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] IP over 802.11p (was: EtherType for ITS) X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:55:57 -0000 Given current discussions, I think it may be worth considering a work item about how to run IP over 802.11p. One of the things to say would be whether or not this is IPv6 only or IPv4 also. This would say how this would work _without_ GeoNetworking. It would agree on the EtherType and/or whether there are new ones, several or only one, or reusing existing EtherTypes. It could be as simple as to say that IP works over 802.11p just as it works over 802.11b - no modifications. What do you think? Alex Le 30/01/2013 11:10, Alexandru Petrescu a écrit : > Le 30/01/2013 11:04, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit : >> Hi Alexandru, >> >> IEEE talk only hexa in their Ethertype files. > > I tend to agree that #8947 is a hexadecimal notation also because the > sharp sign preceding it, and because if it were decimal it would > convert to 22F3 which is already reserved for trill. > > I just watend to make sure. > > Alex > >> >> Regards, >> >> Dan >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- From: its-bounces@ietf.org >>> [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandru Petrescu >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:00 PM To: its@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - >>> EtherType for ITS >>> >>> Hello Dan, >>> >>> Thank you for the email. >>> >>> I think we definitely need a good interface with IEEE about >>> this. >>> >>> Maybe you could ask them whether this number is hexa or decimal, >>> so we know what to put in implementation (e.g. wireshark packet >>> analyzers, and 802.11p/etsi-its implementations). >>> >>> Also, I am interested to learn whether this deserves being >>> reserved at IANA. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> Le 30/01/2013 10:49, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit : >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> The documents that you are referring (on the ETSI server) are >>>> not freely accessible. A password is required, and probably >>>> only ETSI members have the access information. >>>> >>>> The responsibility for assigning EtherType values is with the >>>> IEEE Registration Authority. They maintain a public list >>>> (updated daily) at >>>> http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/ethertype/eth.txt >>>> and according to this list the value 8947 is not allocated. >>>> Now, the public listing information for EtherTypes bears a >>>> disclaimer that says >>>> >>>> * This is a partial listing of all assigned EtherType Fields. >>>> Not >>> all >>>> recipients wish to publish their assignment at this time. >>>> >>>> Did ETSI require for this information not to be published? It >>>> does not look useful if they want to encourage >>>> interoperability >>>> >>>> Value 0707 mentioned in the thread is not allocated either. >>>> >>>> Let me know if I can help (as IETF liaison to the IEEE-SA). >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> *From:*its-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On >>>> Behalf Of *Thierry Ernst *Sent:* Wednesday, January 30, 2013 >>>> 11:11 AM *To:* its@ietf.org *Subject:* Re: [its] What do we >>>> need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS >>>> >>>> >>>> Alex, >>>> >>>> IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use >>>> (ETSI TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document >>>> available on the ETSI server: >>>> >>>> ITS(13)000020 >>>> >>> >>>> 0_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf> >>>> Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking >>>> http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Eth >>>> >>>> ernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf >>>> >>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>> >>>> Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : >>>> >>>> I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO >>>> 21217 - Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. >>>> >>>> Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have >>>> cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads >>>> to deaths and damage to property? >>>> >>>> >>>> Does it make any better interoperable as well? >>>> >>>> EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but >>>> not specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it >>>> interoperable. >>>> >>>> One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by >>> somebody >>>> who is not IANA nor IEEE? >>>> >>>> (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype >>>> is reserved at IEEE and at IANA >>>> >>>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml) >>>> >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> Or should these standards remain in >>>> >>>> the public domain, for researches to review and validate? >>>> >>>> Just my 2 cents. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. >>>> First, it would need a charter, and support from the industry. >>>> But more importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, >>>> so it means the different issues pertaining to ITS should be >>>> brought to >>> VARIOUS >>>> existing WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is an >>>> important issue for which there is no existing WG that could >>>> work on it. >>>> >>>> This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about >>>> vehicular communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru >>>> below mostly consider vehicular communications. >>>> >>>> What ITS really needs is the definition of a common >>>> communication architecture and the definition of what features >>>> should be comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for >>>> ITS use cases. This cannot be done at IETF, and actually >>>> already exists at ISO: - ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 - >>>> IPv6 Networking >>>> >>>> As an input to the discussion, please consider reading >>>> documents D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web >>>> page: http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an >>>> analysis of the currently published version of ISO 21210, but >>>> new work items have been launched since then to address >>>> remaining issues. >>>> >>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>>> >>>> >>>> All, >>>> >>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS >>>> would need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) >>>> as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work >>>> be taken up in MANET. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Stan, >>>> >>>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some >>>> time. >>>> >>>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I >>>> have interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using >>>> prefix exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix >>>> Delegation - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 single-address >>>> connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator and a vehicular >>>> moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with >>>> DHCPv6. >>>> >>>> Please let me know. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, Stan >>>> >>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Nabil, >>>> >>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We >>>> will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use >>>> cases and work to be done in this group. This charter needs to >>>> be approved by the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting >>>> so not sure about the status now, >>>> >>>> AB >>>> >>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should we >>>> exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>> >>>> >>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so >>>> far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to >>>> be completed and volunteered. >>>> >>>> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل >>>> بنعمروNabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences Simulation >>>> and Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes >>>> Moulay Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 >>>> 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> ---------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> its >>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its >>> mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its >>> mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>> list >>>> its@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From thierry.ernst@inria.fr Thu Jan 31 05:47:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28CEF21F8697 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 05:47:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.333, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TS0gM8lIev-k for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 05:47:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0269921F866F for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 05:47:39 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,576,1355094000"; d="vcf'?scan'208";a="829679" Received: from dhcp-rocq-242.inria.fr ([128.93.62.242]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA; 31 Jan 2013 14:47:37 +0100 Message-ID: <510A75F8.7080508@inria.fr> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:47:36 +0100 From: Thierry Ernst Organization: INRIA User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A49E@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <5108EF0B.5050002@gmail.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A517@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <5108F18E.7010104@gmail.com> <510A69D7.40806@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <510A69D7.40806@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000103040509060200030601" Subject: Re: [its] IP over 802.11p X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:47:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000103040509060200030601 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, we do actually run IPv6 over 11p (with or without GeoNetworking), so I don't see what kind of issues there might be ... Regards, Thierry On 31/01/13 13:55, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Given current discussions, I think it may be worth considering a work > item about how to run IP over 802.11p. > > One of the things to say would be whether or not this is IPv6 only or > IPv4 also. > > This would say how this would work _without_ GeoNetworking. > > It would agree on the EtherType and/or whether there are new ones, > several or only one, or reusing existing EtherTypes. > > It could be as simple as to say that IP works over 802.11p just as it > works over 802.11b - no modifications. > > What do you think? > > Alex > > Le 30/01/2013 11:10, Alexandru Petrescu a écrit : >> Le 30/01/2013 11:04, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit : >>> Hi Alexandru, >>> >>> IEEE talk only hexa in their Ethertype files. >> >> I tend to agree that #8947 is a hexadecimal notation also because the >> sharp sign preceding it, and because if it were decimal it would >> convert to 22F3 which is already reserved for trill. >> >> I just watend to make sure. >> >> Alex >> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: its-bounces@ietf.org >>>> [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandru Petrescu >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:00 PM To: its@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - >>>> EtherType for ITS >>>> >>>> Hello Dan, >>>> >>>> Thank you for the email. >>>> >>>> I think we definitely need a good interface with IEEE about >>>> this. >>>> >>>> Maybe you could ask them whether this number is hexa or decimal, >>>> so we know what to put in implementation (e.g. wireshark packet >>>> analyzers, and 802.11p/etsi-its implementations). >>>> >>>> Also, I am interested to learn whether this deserves being >>>> reserved at IANA. >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> Le 30/01/2013 10:49, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit : >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> The documents that you are referring (on the ETSI server) are >>>>> not freely accessible. A password is required, and probably >>>>> only ETSI members have the access information. >>>>> >>>>> The responsibility for assigning EtherType values is with the >>>>> IEEE Registration Authority. They maintain a public list >>>>> (updated daily) at >>>>> http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/ethertype/eth.txt >>>>> and according to this list the value 8947 is not allocated. >>>>> Now, the public listing information for EtherTypes bears a >>>>> disclaimer that says >>>>> >>>>> * This is a partial listing of all assigned EtherType Fields. >>>>> Not >>>> all >>>>> recipients wish to publish their assignment at this time. >>>>> >>>>> Did ETSI require for this information not to be published? It >>>>> does not look useful if they want to encourage >>>>> interoperability >>>>> >>>>> Value 0707 mentioned in the thread is not allocated either. >>>>> >>>>> Let me know if I can help (as IETF liaison to the IEEE-SA). >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> *From:*its-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On >>>>> Behalf Of *Thierry Ernst *Sent:* Wednesday, January 30, 2013 >>>>> 11:11 AM *To:* its@ietf.org *Subject:* Re: [its] What do we >>>>> need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for ITS >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Alex, >>>>> >>>>> IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for ITS use >>>>> (ETSI TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following document >>>>> available on the ETSI server: >>>>> >>>>> ITS(13)000020 >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> > 0_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf> >>>>> Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking >>>>> http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Eth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > ernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : >>>>> >>>>> I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO >>>>> 21217 - Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. >>>>> >>>>> Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have >>>>> cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification leads >>>>> to deaths and damage to property? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Does it make any better interoperable as well? >>>>> >>>>> EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, but >>>>> not specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not make it >>>>> interoperable. >>>>> >>>>> One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved by >>>> somebody >>>>> who is not IANA nor IEEE? >>>>> >>>>> (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd ethertype >>>>> is reserved at IEEE and at IANA >>>>> >>>>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Alex >>>>> >>>>> Or should these standards remain in >>>>> >>>>> the public domain, for researches to review and validate? >>>>> >>>>> Just my 2 cents. >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. >>>>> First, it would need a charter, and support from the industry. >>>>> But more importantly, IETF WGs are not usually sector-driven, >>>>> so it means the different issues pertaining to ITS should be >>>>> brought to >>>> VARIOUS >>>>> existing WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is an >>>>> important issue for which there is no existing WG that could >>>>> work on it. >>>>> >>>>> This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about >>>>> vehicular communications, though the issues listed by Alexandru >>>>> below mostly consider vehicular communications. >>>>> >>>>> What ITS really needs is the definition of a common >>>>> communication architecture and the definition of what features >>>>> should be comprised for an IPv6 networking stack deployed for >>>>> ITS use cases. This cannot be done at IETF, and actually >>>>> already exists at ISO: - ISO 21217 - Architecture - ISO 21210 - >>>>> IPv6 Networking >>>>> >>>>> As an input to the discussion, please consider reading >>>>> documents D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web >>>>> page: http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an >>>>> analysis of the currently published version of ISO 21210, but >>>>> new work items have been launched since then to address >>>>> remaining issues. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> All, >>>>> >>>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS >>>>> would need its own IETF group. The work here is the same (IMO) >>>>> as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote that this work >>>>> be taken up in MANET. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Stan, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some >>>>> time. >>>>> >>>>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I >>>>> have interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using >>>>> prefix exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix >>>>> Delegation - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 single-address >>>>> connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator and a vehicular >>>>> moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with >>>>> DHCPv6. >>>>> >>>>> Please let me know. >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> >>>>> Alex >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Stan >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Nabil, >>>>> >>>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far now. We >>>>> will need to propose the WG and provide the WG charter, as use >>>>> cases and work to be done in this group. This charter needs to >>>>> be approved by the IESG. I have not attended the last meeting >>>>> so not sure about the status now, >>>>> >>>>> AB >>>>> >>>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>>>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what should we >>>>> exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so >>>>> far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that need to >>>>> be completed and volunteered. >>>>> >>>>> AB _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل >>>>> بنعمروNabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences Simulation >>>>> and Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences Faculty of Meknes >>>>> Moulay Ismail* *University* Meknes, Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 >>>>> 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > ---------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> its >>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>> mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>> mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>> list >>>>> its@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its --------------000103040509060200030601 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="thierry_ernst.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="thierry_ernst.vcf" YmVnaW46dmNhcmQNCmZuOlRoaWVycnkgIEVybnN0DQpuOkVybnN0O1RoaWVycnkgDQpvcmc6 SU5SSUEgLSBQcm9qZWN0IFRlYW0gSU1BUkEgLSBMYVJBIEpSVQ0KdGVsO3dvcms6KzMzIDEg Mzk2MyA1OSAzMA0KdGVsO2ZheDorMzMgMSAzOSA2MyA1NCA5MQ0KdGVsO2NlbGw6KzMzIDYg NzYgNTYgMjUgOTYNCnVybDpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmxhcmEucHJkLmZyDQp2ZXJzaW9uOjIuMQ0K ZW5kOnZjYXJkDQoNCg== --------------000103040509060200030601-- From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Thu Jan 31 07:17:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693EE21F8459 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 07:17:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -11.191 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.191 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.058, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CgTUA3b1wRr0 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 07:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76ED721F84E8 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 07:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0VFGt2i009106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:16:55 +0100 Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0VFGtND028754 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:16:55 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0VFGjTL002990 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:16:55 +0100 Message-ID: <510A8ADC.6070604@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:16:44 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <5106619F.7020002@inria.fr> <51067D07.9020409@gmail.com> <5108E3AB.8080205@inria.fr> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A49E@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <5108EF0B.5050002@gmail.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA07A517@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <5108F18E.7010104@gmail.com> <510A69D7.40806@gmail.com> <510A75F8.7080508@inria.fr> In-Reply-To: <510A75F8.7080508@inria.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] IP over 802.11p X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:17:07 -0000 Le 31/01/2013 14:47, Thierry Ernst a écrit : > > Well, we do actually run IPv6 over 11p (with or without > GeoNetworking), so I don't see what kind of issues there might be > ... I have some clarification questions about EtherType and 802.11p and GeoNetworking. I guess when you run IPv6 over 11p with GeoNetworking, the Ethernet header uses EtherType soon-to-be-0x8947, whereas when you run IPv6 over 11p without GeoNetworking, the Ethernet header uses EtherType 0x86DD. This is just a supposition, I don't know how you run it. Also, if I run IPv4 over 11p with GeoNetworking - should I use EtherType soon-to-be-0x8947? Or other? I suppose that if I run IPv4 over 11p without GeoNetworking I should use EtherType 0x0800, and if it's ARP over 802.11p still without GeoNetworking then I should use EtherType 0x0806. (the letter we've seen recently is not clear whether that allocation is for GeoNetworking, for IP-over-802.11p, for ETSI ITS, for GeoNetworking for IPv6, for GeoNetworking for IPv4, etc. It is not clear either whether GeoNetworking supports IPv4 or not, or under what form). I also have some questions about the relationship between the nature of some 802.11p links (no ESSID, absence of link-layer security - as opposed to WiFi which has ESSID and link-layer security) and IP. For example - will V2V prefix exchange using Router Advertisements work easier on 802.11p links (easier than on WiFi), because the ESSID does not need to be discovered, the ad-hoc network does not need to be formed - suffices it to send packets on a certain channel. (in a V2V draft one seems to say that the presence of Access Point is absolutely necessary in order for 802.11p to work; but in our experimentations this is not the case - it is possible to establish direct vehicle-to-vehicle IP-over-802.11p communications without the presence of a fixed 802.11p Access Point). For another example - will IP prefer that the 802.11p channel in France be 176, 178 or 180? (with WiFi, IP does not care because it can work on any of the 11 channels equally well, but with 802.11p each of these three channels seem to be reserved for "Services", "Control" and "Services"). For another example - is all the security on these links entirely relaying on IP layer security (IPsec, SeND, EAP, PANA)? I think finding consensus on some of these questions could lead to interoperability. Alex > > Regards, Thierry > > > > On 31/01/13 13:55, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >> Given current discussions, I think it may be worth considering a >> work item about how to run IP over 802.11p. >> >> One of the things to say would be whether or not this is IPv6 only >> or IPv4 also. >> >> This would say how this would work _without_ GeoNetworking. >> >> It would agree on the EtherType and/or whether there are new ones, >> several or only one, or reusing existing EtherTypes. >> >> It could be as simple as to say that IP works over 802.11p just as >> it works over 802.11b - no modifications. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Alex >> >> Le 30/01/2013 11:10, Alexandru Petrescu a écrit : >>> Le 30/01/2013 11:04, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit : >>>> Hi Alexandru, >>>> >>>> IEEE talk only hexa in their Ethertype files. >>> >>> I tend to agree that #8947 is a hexadecimal notation also >>> because the sharp sign preceding it, and because if it were >>> decimal it would convert to 22F3 which is already reserved for >>> trill. >>> >>> I just watend to make sure. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: its-bounces@ietf.org >>>>> [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandru Petrescu >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:00 PM To: its@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? >>>>> - EtherType for ITS >>>>> >>>>> Hello Dan, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for the email. >>>>> >>>>> I think we definitely need a good interface with IEEE about >>>>> this. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe you could ask them whether this number is hexa or >>>>> decimal, so we know what to put in implementation (e.g. >>>>> wireshark packet analyzers, and 802.11p/etsi-its >>>>> implementations). >>>>> >>>>> Also, I am interested to learn whether this deserves being >>>>> reserved at IANA. >>>>> >>>>> Alex >>>>> >>>>> Le 30/01/2013 10:49, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit : >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> The documents that you are referring (on the ETSI server) >>>>>> are not freely accessible. A password is required, and >>>>>> probably only ETSI members have the access information. >>>>>> >>>>>> The responsibility for assigning EtherType values is with >>>>>> the IEEE Registration Authority. They maintain a public >>>>>> list (updated daily) at >>>>>> http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/ethertype/eth.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> and according to this list the value 8947 is not allocated. >>>>>> Now, the public listing information for EtherTypes bears a >>>>>> disclaimer that says >>>>>> >>>>>> * This is a partial listing of all assigned EtherType >>>>>> Fields. Not >>>>> all >>>>>> recipients wish to publish their assignment at this time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Did ETSI require for this information not to be published? >>>>>> It does not look useful if they want to encourage >>>>>> interoperability >>>>>> >>>>>> Value 0707 mentioned in the thread is not allocated >>>>>> either. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me know if I can help (as IETF liaison to the >>>>>> IEEE-SA). >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*its-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] >>>>>> *On Behalf Of *Thierry Ernst *Sent:* Wednesday, January >>>>>> 30, 2013 11:11 AM *To:* its@ietf.org *Subject:* Re: [its] >>>>>> What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? - EtherType for >>>>>> ITS >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex, >>>>>> >>>>>> IEEE have assigned Ethernet Type Field number #8947 for >>>>>> ITS use (ETSI TC ITS's GeoNetworking). Check the following >>>>>> document available on the ETSI server: >>>>>> >>>>>> ITS(13)000020 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> 0_Ethernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf> >>>>>> Ethernet Type Field number for GeoNetworking >>>>>> http://docbox.etsi.org/ITS/ITS/05-CONTRIBUTIONS/2013/ITS(13)000020_Eth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> ernet_Type_Field_number_for_GeoNetworking.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 28/01/13 14:28, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 28/01/2013 14:16, Joe Klein a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>> I really dislike the fact that ISO is charging for the ISO >>>>>> 21217 - Architecture & ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this make it any better? Safer? Should ISO now have >>>>>> cybersecurity and safety liability if the specification >>>>>> leads to deaths and damage to property? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Does it make any better interoperable as well? >>>>>> >>>>>> EtherType 0x0707 described in ITS documents, implemented, >>>>>> but not specified by IEEE nor reserved at IANA - does not >>>>>> make it interoperable. >>>>>> >>>>>> One wouldn't think that this 0x0707 ethertype be reserved >>>>>> by >>>>> somebody >>>>>> who is not IANA nor IEEE? >>>>>> >>>>>> (see a good example of interoperability: IPv6 0x86dd >>>>>> ethertype is reserved at IEEE and at IANA >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xml) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>> Or should these standards remain in >>>>>> >>>>>> the public domain, for researches to review and validate? >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my 2 cents. >>>>>> >>>>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Thierry Ernst >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> At this stage, I don't think a new working group is needed. >>>>>> First, it would need a charter, and support from the >>>>>> industry. But more importantly, IETF WGs are not usually >>>>>> sector-driven, so it means the different issues pertaining >>>>>> to ITS should be brought to >>>>> VARIOUS >>>>>> existing WGs, and a WG should only be created if there is >>>>>> an important issue for which there is no existing WG that >>>>>> could work on it. >>>>>> >>>>>> This said, as mentioned earlier, ITS is not only about >>>>>> vehicular communications, though the issues listed by >>>>>> Alexandru below mostly consider vehicular communications. >>>>>> >>>>>> What ITS really needs is the definition of a common >>>>>> communication architecture and the definition of what >>>>>> features should be comprised for an IPv6 networking stack >>>>>> deployed for ITS use cases. This cannot be done at IETF, >>>>>> and actually already exists at ISO: - ISO 21217 - >>>>>> Architecture - ISO 21210 - IPv6 Networking >>>>>> >>>>>> As an input to the discussion, please consider reading >>>>>> documents D2.1 and D2.2 available on the ITSSv6 project web >>>>>> page: http://www.itssv6.eu/documentation/ D2.2 provides an >>>>>> analysis of the currently published version of ISO 21210, >>>>>> but new work items have been launched since then to address >>>>>> remaining issues. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, Thierry. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 28/01/13 11:08, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> All, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why >>>>>> ITS would need its own IETF group. The work here is the >>>>>> same (IMO) as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote >>>>>> that this work be taken up in MANET. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Stan, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since >>>>>> some time. >>>>>> >>>>>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I >>>>>> have interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using >>>>>> prefix exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND >>>>>> Prefix Delegation - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 >>>>>> single-address connecion 'sharing' with a cellular >>>>>> operator and a vehicular moving network (type '64share' of >>>>>> v6ops). - Default Route with DHCPv6. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, Stan >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Nabil, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think we already done some steps but not sure how far >>>>>> now. We will need to propose the WG and provide the WG >>>>>> charter, as use cases and work to be done in this group. >>>>>> This charter needs to be approved by the IESG. I have not >>>>>> attended the last meeting so not sure about the status >>>>>> now, >>>>>> >>>>>> AB >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/26/13, Nabil Benamar >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm still interested in this list and want to join voices >>>>>> previously heard to make it a working group. So what >>>>>> should we exactly do, to achieve this goal ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2013/1/26 Abdussalam Baryun >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I was interested in this group but not sure where are we so >>>>>> far. Is there progress, or is there issues/efforts that >>>>>> need to be completed and volunteered. >>>>>> >>>>>> AB _______________________________________________ its >>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- * * *تحياتي ØŒ **Cordialement, Regards* * * * * *نبيل >>>>>> بنعمروNabil Benamar* Professor of computer sciences >>>>>> Simulation and Modelisation Laboratory Human Sciences >>>>>> Faculty of Meknes Moulay Ismail* *University* Meknes, >>>>>> Morocco *GSM: * *+ 212 6 70832236 http://nabilbenamar.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> ---------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> its >>>>>> mailing list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>> mailing >>>>>> list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>> mailing >>>>>> list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its >>>>>> mailing >>>>> list >>>>>> its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>>> list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>>> list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>>> list its@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing >>>>> list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Thu Jan 31 10:46:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3425C21F8546 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:46:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.283, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oih32xmOSfQ1 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:46:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1428021F846E for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:46:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0VIkhSj002818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:46:43 +0100 Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0VIkhZV021262; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:46:43 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0VIkcMW026892; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:46:42 +0100 Message-ID: <510ABC0D.8000503@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:46:37 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" References: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFE9E2@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <51064E08.9020401@gmail.com> <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFED60@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFF51E@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <2ED1D3801ACAAB459FDB4EAC9EAD090C0FFFF51E@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "" , Abdussalam Baryun Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 18:46:48 -0000 Le 28/01/2013 18:36, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : > > On Jan 28, 2013, at 12:25 PM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > >> I have no objection as only if the participants in this group >> (after rough consensus) are happy to do such discussion in MANET >> WG, because I am already participating in both as some do :-) >> >> I prefer another approach. Why not who interested in MANET WG >> participants join here and discuss ITS in this list, to make a >> value for this list and the efforts done before for this group at >> least, and then we can see which direction we will go as consensus. >> It is inscope to discuss ITS here but I think still out of scope in >> MANET WG (not chartered yet). >> >> I think names of groups don't matter it is the effort and welling >> of participants that make the change in technology, > > We agree there - the name of the group doesn't matter. I'm basing my > opinion on the work to be done - ITS and MANET are operating in the > same general solution space. To create a separate group is to invite > the same types of issues that MANET has with ROLL (e.g. when is a > sensor net a MANET?). I agree that we shouldn't go towards issues similar to MANET-vs-RoLL. I think that could be avoided if, for example, we look in ITS more towards _not_ routing protocols. For example, we may look towards addressing instead: how are the addresses formed and distributed within a network of mobile vehicles. As far as I know, not many MANET works designed how to form addresses or how to distribute addresses. I think MANET works concentrated more on the routing protocols which execute once the addressing is already there, designed, configured. Another example is about IP-over-foo. As far as I know IP-over-foo is very much out of scope for MANET, and even out of scope for RoLL. I think IP-over-foo could be kept in ITS email list. A more sensitive issue is about this V2V prefix exchange. Two proposals exist to use IPv6 Router Advertisements to exchange routes between two vehicles. This kind of operation approaches a lot to what a routing protocol does. But if we look closer I think we can find some differences. For example AODV has this notion of actively discovering a route (RREQ/RREP) across multiple subnets, whereas the V2V drafts seem to be periodic broadcasts on a single link. Other examples exist (e.g. position with respect to loop free constructions). Also, it is worth mentioning that MANET is not the only WG whose outputs may be in relationship with what ITS needs. There is also 6man WG, v6ops, netext, dmm, to name but a few in my perspective. Alex > > Stan > > >> >> AB >> >> >> On 1/28/13, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) wrote: >>> >>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 5:08 AM, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>> >>>> Le 28/01/2013 05:02, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) a écrit : >>>>> All, >>>>> >>>>> This is just one opinion, but I'd like to understand why ITS >>>>> would need its own IETF group. The work here is the same >>>>> (IMO) as what is taking place in MANET. I would vote that >>>>> this work be taken up in MANET. >>>> >>>> Stan, >>>> >>>> Thank you for the offer. I considered this offer since some >>>> time. >>>> >>>> I try to understand whether some of these items on which I have >>>> interest could be brought in in MANET WG: - V2V using prefix >>>> exchange - VIN-based IP addressing scheme - ND Prefix >>>> Delegation - PMIP-based network mobility - IPv6 single-address >>>> connecion 'sharing' with a cellular operator and a vehicular >>>> moving network (type '64share' of v6ops). - Default Route with >>>> DHCPv6. >>>> >>>> Please let me know. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>> >>> Alex, >>> >>> Yes, I think that all of these issues should be discussed in >>> MANET. A large portion of the networks I deploy are the >>> vehicular-type networks that ITS is discussing. So at least for >>> me, this is a very good fit. Instead of creating a new working >>> group, and potentially running into the conflicts that creates >>> (reference recent discussions about the difference between MANET >>> and ROLL), it would be possibly a re-charter for MANET to >>> include some of these items. >>> >>> >>> Regards, Stan >>> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Thu Jan 31 11:09:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C907C21F87DF for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:09:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DJpJTCn0lf9l for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5636921F846E for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r0VJ9Vgj015413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:09:31 +0100 Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0VJ9Uae024337; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:09:31 +0100 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r0VJ9Qdh032600; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:09:30 +0100 Message-ID: <510AC165.9070300@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:09:25 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0)" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Abdussalam Baryun , "" , "Stan Ratliff \(sratliff\)" Subject: Re: [its] What do we need to make ITS WG go forward? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:09:36 -0000 Le 28/01/2013 18:52, Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0) a écrit : > Agreed. Perhaps ITS can create a draft charter document that can be > used to modify/update the manet charter. It is much easier to > start with something. I am considering this idea to put on paper a draft charter proposal to have something to discuss about. Currently I think about starting by reusing the document structure of a recently chartered WG. I would sketch it with 1) problem statement/reqs/scenarios, relationship to external SDOs, 2) solutions, 3) MIB. In the solution space I could write about: - IP over 802.11p - IP addressing methods - V2V and V2V2I connectivity establishment - mobility management protocols for vehicles. This could quickly become too ambitious, or too large. I could also draft it like this: scenarios and problems, study of existing solutions, identify whether there's something to do at IETF, end. If you have suggestions please contact me privately. Alex > > Will > > >>> >>> I think names of groups don't matter it is the effort and >>> welling of participants that make the change in technology, >> >> We agree there - the name of the group doesn't matter. I'm basing >> my opinion on the work to be done - ITS and MANET are operating in >> the same general solution space. To create a separate group is to >> invite the same types of issues that MANET has with ROLL (e.g. >> when is a sensor net a MANET?). >> >> Stan >> >> >>> > > >