From nobody Tue Nov 8 06:26:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA17129CB5 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 06:26:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.353 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.353 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JG3hyD2FZUuk for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 06:26:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30696129CB2 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 06:26:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.4) with ESMTP id uA8EQcOu020149 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 15:26:38 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id F06C62076E6 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 15:26:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD87B202382 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 15:26:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id uA8EQbQs025690 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 15:26:37 +0100 To: its@ietf.org References: <465e709d-5001-6c28-e784-1f50e9310757@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2016 15:26:37 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <465e709d-5001-6c28-e784-1f50e9310757@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [its] Submitted new version of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2016 14:26:42 -0000 Hello IPWAVErs, This merge brought in one particular aspect: IPv4. For example, the draft now mentions the use of an IPv4 Ethertype if carrying an IPv4 packet (in addition to the IPv6 Ethertype when carrying an IPv6 packet). Another example is that the title now says "IP over ..." instead of "IPv6 over..." I would like to ask participants to the IPWAVE WG - what do you think about inclusion of IPv4 aspects in this draft? We need your comments in order to improve this draft. Yours, Alex Le 31/10/2016 à 21:38, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit : > Hello IPWAVErs, > > We submitted a new version of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05.txt. > This is a merge including draft-ernst-its-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00, > draft-haerri-ipv6-over-80211OCB-00 and > draft-lee-its-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00. The new document contains a few > other improvements. Notably, the comments received during the BoF were > addressed. > > Comments are welcome. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05 > > Alex > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Thu Nov 10 14:42:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C4A129795 for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:42:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.418 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.418 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vi-JtlcqEBKe for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mga07.intel.com (mga07.intel.com [134.134.136.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B3C612953C for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from orsmga005.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.41]) by orsmga105.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 10 Nov 2016 14:42:38 -0800 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.31,620,1473145200"; d="scan'208";a="29994555" Received: from orsmsx110.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.22.240.8]) by orsmga005.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 10 Nov 2016 14:42:38 -0800 Received: from orsmsx158.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.240.20) by ORSMSX110.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.240.8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.248.2; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:42:37 -0800 Received: from orsmsx115.amr.corp.intel.com ([169.254.4.5]) by ORSMSX158.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.22.240.20]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:42:37 -0800 From: "Kedalagudde, Meghashree Dattatri" To: 'Alexandre Petrescu' , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [its] Submitted new version of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHSOcwoT2tM8ks5kE6EuwzDM65KcKDS0waQ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 22:42:36 +0000 Message-ID: <67E73AAEE1380D49959336EE48BDF01C0E4FB373@ORSMSX115.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <465e709d-5001-6c28-e784-1f50e9310757@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ctpclassification: CTP_IC x-titus-metadata-40: eyJDYXRlZ29yeUxhYmVscyI6IiIsIk1ldGFkYXRhIjp7Im5zIjoiaHR0cDpcL1wvd3d3LnRpdHVzLmNvbVwvbnNcL0ludGVsMyIsImlkIjoiZjhhNjIzN2YtZTkxMy00YTgxLTkxNWEtZjg5M2Y4NDJkMTc1IiwicHJvcHMiOlt7Im4iOiJDVFBDbGFzc2lmaWNhdGlvbiIsInZhbHMiOlt7InZhbHVlIjoiQ1RQX0lDIn1dfV19LCJTdWJqZWN0TGFiZWxzIjpbXSwiVE1DVmVyc2lvbiI6IjE1LjkuNi42IiwiVHJ1c3RlZExhYmVsSGFzaCI6Imc0WDlQWkVDb0FwenFxT2xZS3o5QzAzYnNpQVNRN2ROV3N4cnN4SEdlVVU9In0= x-originating-ip: [10.22.254.140] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [its] Submitted new version of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 22:42:40 -0000 Hello IPWAVErs, =20 =20 Alex: Thank you for sharing the draft. I read through the new version and = had a clarification question. =20 Including support for IPv4 over 802.11OCB. Can you elaborate on the use ca= se or example for IPv4 support on 802.11OCB? =20 My understanding is IEEE 1609.x (0/3/4) documents mention only about IPv6 = on 802.11OCB. I think it is important to understand why IPv4 support and op= timizations is required in the draft. =20 In addition, with reference to the IAB statement on IPv6: https://www.iab.= org/2016/11/07/iab-statement-on-ipv6/ 'Next -gen' standards and industry = development needs to see increase in IPv6 deployments. =20 I still think the challenges/issues to support IPv6 over 802.11OCB should = be the focus here, unless there is an absolute need to support IPv4 over 80= 2.11OCB.=20 =20 Please share your thoughts.=20 =20 Thank you=20 Megha -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 6:27 AM To: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] Submitted new version of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p= -05.txt Hello IPWAVErs, This merge brought in one particular aspect: IPv4. For example, the draft = now mentions the use of an IPv4 Ethertype if carrying an IPv4 packet (in ad= dition to the IPv6 Ethertype when carrying an IPv6 packet). Another example is that the title now says "IP over ..." instead of "IPv6 over..." I would like to ask participants to the IPWAVE WG - what do you think about= inclusion of IPv4 aspects in this draft? We need your comments in order t= o improve this draft. Yours, Alex Le 31/10/2016 =E0 21:38, Alexandre Petrescu a =E9crit : > Hello IPWAVErs, > > We submitted a new version of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05.txt. > This is a merge including draft-ernst-its-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00, > draft-haerri-ipv6-over-80211OCB-00 and=20 > draft-lee-its-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00. The new document contains a few=20 > other improvements. Notably, the comments received during the BoF=20 > were addressed. > > Comments are welcome. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05 > > Alex > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Thu Nov 10 14:51:38 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82517129549 for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:51:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zAV0wfoPi2qS for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8E6112948C for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:51:35 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-e87ff70000000a0b-43-5824a58c22b8 Received: from EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.96]) by (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id BF.0B.02571.C85A4285; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 17:51:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.96]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 17:51:32 -0500 From: Suresh Krishnan To: "meghashree.dattatri.kedalagudde@intel.com" , "alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com" , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [its] Submitted new version of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05.txt Thread-Index: AdI7pPpnCJSMEYDD4ECm+HTUVNX7RA== Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 22:51:31 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E87B771635882B4BA20096B589152EF643FEC50Beusaamb107erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPgm7/UpUIg90TJS1OnnnCZnFx/jsW i3/NOg7MHjtn3WX3WLLkJ5PH4j0vmQKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgyvj1fyFzQGFGx7LV6A+Op 0C5GTg4JAROJnpvbWboYuTiEBNYzSnydfpkNwlnOKDF70SpGkCo2oKoNOz8zgdgiAnsZJe5f zOhi5OAQFgiReLFfESIcKrHv2gt2CFtP4sz3e6wgJSwCqhLPX9eChHkFfCWWNC0DK2EUEJP4 fmoN2ERmAXGJW0/mM0HcIyCxZM95ZghbVOLl43+sEDX5EtdOzmOCmCMocXLmE5YJjAKzkLTP QlI2C0nZLKArmAU0Jdbv0ocoUZSY0v2QHcLWkGidMxfKtpZY+HMiO7KaBYwcqxg5SosLcnLT jQw3MQIj4JgEm+MOxr29nocYBTgYlXh4DYJVIoRYE8uKK3MPMUpwMCuJ8Kb8AArxpiRWVqUW 5ccXleakFh9ilOZgURLnvR5yP1xIID2xJDU7NbUgtQgmy8TBKdXAOOWDVG+zuU+tUv3vQ5Uq 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4yc9cPRkviEix4ycCcMDCA; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 23:18:48 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) From: Tony Li In-Reply-To: <67E73AAEE1380D49959336EE48BDF01C0E4FB373@ORSMSX115.amr.corp.intel.com> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 15:18:36 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <465e709d-5001-6c28-e784-1f50e9310757@gmail.com> <67E73AAEE1380D49959336EE48BDF01C0E4FB373@ORSMSX115.amr.corp.intel.com> To: "Kedalagudde, Meghashree Dattatri" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfIesbsegKpNDPd/5dYNcjzMPj+HJ/DXXzzcTZnMoKyURz6jdtVu6PPT74IJGmDnzL3e/+vBHPs9pgc61Y38fKa+2R66voBp/ksGuETuvnNN1Icx1TqJg Z756O9y//TEyAPVICrZYIrQ8z/Hfg1mHBuNZRAy+u5CBBbNa3lSvGAhM7KiD4O77VSB/OSIymyzJEu7OAVchPdAWvY4S4oRU6BNIYEQBaPjQNZECqk8RlOR3 zQK5i0HXztWWeZ2Af14VeQ== Archived-At: Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [its] Submitted new version of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 23:20:52 -0000 Hi there, > Including support for IPv4 over 802.11OCB. Can you elaborate on the = use case or example for IPv4 support on 802.11OCB? We have a proprietary application that has V2I, V2V, and V2V2I = requirements. The V2I portion of the requirement makes use of = non-802.11OCB wireless infrastructure (e.g. Wi-Fi) that may not be under = our direct control and that is located opportunistically (e.g., a = Starbucks hotspot). We cannot expect IPv6 to be ubiquitously available = and thus for maximum connectivity, we must have IPv4 support. Given = this, when we require V2V2I connectivity, it makes sense for us to have = IPv4 for the V2V portion as well. Thus, we will be using IPv4 over = 802.11OCB. > My understanding is IEEE 1609.x (0/3/4) documents mention only about = IPv6 on 802.11OCB. I think it is important to understand why IPv4 = support and optimizations is required in the draft. Our application does not require IEEE 1609. At all. ;-) You should not that draft-petrescu doesn=E2=80=99t require IEEE 1609 = either. > I still think the challenges/issues to support IPv6 over 802.11OCB = should be the focus here, unless there is an absolute need to support = IPv4 over 802.11OCB.=20 There is an absolute need. The IPv4 Internet is not going away. While we = may dream of a brave new world where IPv6 is ubiquitous, we are not = there yet. The choice is to speak v4 sometimes or to be disconnected. No one is asking for a change of focus. All that is needed is a few = words that document how IPv4 is to be encoded. Since it is 100% = consistent with the IPv6 encoding, this is hardly controversial. The = additions to the existing document have been minimal. Tony From nobody Sun Nov 13 21:07:37 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71226129634 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:07:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sedj2fyJfShA for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:07:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x229.google.com (mail-pf0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C7DF12969F for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:07:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x229.google.com with SMTP id c4so15248658pfb.1 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:07:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date:organization :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=74wjMg8L4T+EM7DQVMWlGNtl5fb1z/LIylNjL9fuLas=; b=Aa/pJ213SS9RrJ4QzAnqJy1RD/UmuTxyRlipUJ2hX4vioitgVDkKY4HWaPp0jh3guT vl7VlkbbbwzZU/wem9j5v4LnuG+qLXDuRDx7WB9gOXepc3NNKjdEDDm2lrDO+vzSN6b0 7oP0sorLmVI4IIyX+mZwEz3Tzp1EsbMUl2SHZ/ZAecw/8nVGWNdIMrtMBTv84dheHVpz CCKRtMuxUJRGjNMPW0129CnGWkX2kU0XoHX0WQL60m7MQxYk+LWnaQmjVq1ezEyl6n6Q iQEz50vm1YUHfTTwOreDQ7lWAuxTomm0joYDs+y8F4wtdN0RkuZwVxgQeF+d8K1Qsaoa ruJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=74wjMg8L4T+EM7DQVMWlGNtl5fb1z/LIylNjL9fuLas=; b=GuAyrEl5OBacojAMwpNM0uSMMi10zsqDg4O/A28u82GQlUuqfYpTqQiMwmk6LEGh/u hHe0GERxi76IY0d4jD0CcU0ZDv7Eo2KLsGNSCofTjWFfwKkV7zcmIDLrSH+pov6Bqcpr rzmFxUmXJP+zjJYOkKVG9fxzWLcKLeM7hPw6Fhl7O4KFuSy6rz/VU34lOSam/405TILP 2cm4nuGbCNKyQARu6jrmRGC2Epj7ZvGyv1lVBQa87EUBYHVAQ5CVf5tXNb2lhYx+RiLE /Bn4IW+w62SVmWSj4F0u28LR9MPJmTY+5q1BsgsgBywrow6Do6tmxxmrahFIfPXAGOyt rxnw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvf7UZN/qbIwQNjjoJmLKfj3JV2qGcOqMPW/GIB6vFPciKQG8oRJo6DfGOEbRRf4lihP X-Received: by 10.99.167.15 with SMTP id d15mr7862651pgf.167.1479100050420; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:07:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from s2001067c037001284e3488fffe433f55.v6.meeting.ietf.org ([2001:67c:370:128:4e34:88ff:fe43:3f55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f14sm18344384pfk.5.2016.11.13.21.07.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:07:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1479100044.2802.4.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano To: its@ietf.org Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 06:07:24 +0100 Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.1-2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: Russ Housley Subject: [its] Minute takers and jabber scribe X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 05:07:35 -0000 Hi, We are looking for a couple of minute takers and a jabber scribe for session on Wednesday. If you want to be remembered as the minute takers of the first official IPWAVE meeting session, please volunteer :D As you know, minutes are very important to keep track of the decisions and next steps between physical meetings. And jabber is very valuable resource for our remote attendees. Thanks! Carlos & Russ From nobody Sun Nov 13 21:19:19 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF80B12950D for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:19:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zzSGsETp31sF for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x241.google.com (mail-it0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 207B91294E4 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x241.google.com with SMTP id n68so11394425itn.3 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:19:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=A2eNO4XyMf8pSxS/6uvzHRV/xB2WXVdiDW6v9iT/ZeQ=; b=Stz680vr+Rpwc/8cDR5kyOgqgRIuuvZJvkUdtDjAnejUXrZ6I9SCYbodBj0nPOGIY7 WHlnI3MAT3ZpEhZ6n4J1mn2Mn2y3sRxqjGkcNR+/LPzxRKa+qQWCwNhbq3BpO+yGZzwo g/jyO7PU5qtYGZBJ+mDuOFHq/eA9NIk6vez5NvtznSkNxzmccQpJEn5dpKbLWFLEttwN MypucW1oyCrlPYglx40iyjsXjcfytfC1K4siHi4ng7mpWgYf9CjbR8byf7ySY+Jom8Sh ShMnefMG9PH9W70AGhI13hDC/ROzFsgVM7NAGTjvYa8kcmav/eYl9uRwwMI/AACfEAeC 9TvA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=A2eNO4XyMf8pSxS/6uvzHRV/xB2WXVdiDW6v9iT/ZeQ=; b=i18YIJDXdn0FzNPnrBIyIL1WIGTiOjkWd7JFDtqce+D1j7+GEc5RvMBPOhe0iFE8D1 dYO55Xu57EY4WsVjCf1OR5w/DS8K7OHV2MMWqnF7THa2/r4otK10s1GeprSpdjyM9QC9 43lopmEnukQEBBsX+m97Q362BU63/bVbKIRBH6aTnK1RuQONb71yNA2TKw59p5gLvp/+ 6ln2itohdsEduiKlAENOFqbyq7nodCpooIzVDcRHxIAOReh6PsfXOf6shcExK5P4LVng +pO9FjTqQDc7nKmb3ofPVn3O/9bqQezRV70zuYT5+hBnt7JSXc1uSvRi3s8UAz1pbZhj Igwg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvfZ0c2JKRgbnXjPLqk4n6ceGnZ7CLXrzjmDWmdbFF0wYyxaDe2l17ewAB9qcYE5s/jGKDlQsdmTbxQ7WA== X-Received: by 10.202.59.138 with SMTP id i132mr6870767oia.182.1479100755549; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:19:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1479100044.2802.4.camel@it.uc3m.es> In-Reply-To: <1479100044.2802.4.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Jong-Hyouk Lee Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 05:19:04 +0000 Message-ID: To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es, its@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ce1fc1f22b505413bfb1d Archived-At: Cc: Russ Housley Subject: Re: [its] Minute takers and jabber scribe X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 05:19:18 -0000 --001a113ce1fc1f22b505413bfb1d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can be the minute taker. J. On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 at 2:07 PM Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano wrote: > Hi, > > We are looking for a couple of minute takers and a jabber scribe for > session on Wednesday. If you want to be remembered as the minute takers > of the first official IPWAVE meeting session, please volunteer :D > > As you know, minutes are very important to keep track of the decisions > and next steps between physical meetings. And jabber is very valuable > resource for our remote attendees. > > Thanks! > > Carlos & Russ > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --001a113ce1fc1f22b505413bfb1d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can be the minute taker.

J.
On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 at 2:07 PM Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano &= lt;cjbc@it.uc3m.es> wrote:
Hi,

We are looking for a couple of minute takers and a jabber scribe for
session on Wednesday. If you want to be remembered as the minute takers
of the first official IPWAVE meeting session, please volunteer :D

As you know, minutes are very important to keep track of the decisions
and next steps between physical meetings. And jabber is very valuable
resource for our remote attendees.

Thanks!

Carlos & Russ

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@i= etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i= ts
--001a113ce1fc1f22b505413bfb1d-- From nobody Sun Nov 13 22:03:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A5B12969F for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:03:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TR_J4wTWyH3t for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x232.google.com (mail-pg0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5E571294C6 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:02:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x232.google.com with SMTP id p66so50180358pga.2 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:02:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:date:in-reply-to:references :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Bg+Ds3pt/Tdk7MtARbTHRFswdCsSaDuoIDQvpu3FIl8=; b=DvnmYzXtlXJUJgl4jsVSNpAdKCczxAP2bgXHZinluiSLHZVGGWWBnv647Blj6KkDqj MHfe10Q9KNxT2g9TdB4V60WCB5eqt5X7M/U+G/CvybL0qYfH3OgaRuYPT6LmpijknlG7 9BK0nAFetIJtXjrMbLfclPs6l9rWBHXHwBPUX/SNBsK1rt8jaUY4bmvAbP5ZY2J32ye+ A3lDXwq3hm0hT6KbljadHjgRO4X3cLObLybsg3K/VVFHAlvtLKqLZeuG0/ZME5425O/e U6en5dnRmm8pDxgQl4lKS3+64+c3yc00MtEhVJLwvOhpY4u/WphuuOVLU2+0UVlxl3Fu 60ZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:date :in-reply-to:references:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Bg+Ds3pt/Tdk7MtARbTHRFswdCsSaDuoIDQvpu3FIl8=; b=H6N1WKcFeKeoorJ4qfSixtSM/LZL1fjLhR8QY98Eazn2IgccO7xJ2gwy/lfoIh+AhU YcMvMl7/SqZ27pqyKRxIeQbzSSwW81xHJvgkv9w1+NI++I9Y8U5mvk9WdYCTHiZWLecN C4yq55FjLbEVx/vzzcoMwFZ9Q4o1qH7K8m+L+KBUrJO3cX8p2oNx7rv6203oi2W50kMO G5DzXVArNTfBhbOQu3BR1GyE8iZWmgxTog4euXde8T/Oqla8Pm9BWL9VRRSP6HdTFI8E 1j9CXuXDkjLckkQAhpChHYkz0xJp82cwHyAsx294goI0jjWWpETTB9sFEiF1X2ugTnhS MnNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvfzP/0pXKe+nUI3mPRqntmXSC5AaH3CsTJUmIdbqF6cPwT60hmGy23UU83Y46pFtklC X-Received: by 10.99.144.65 with SMTP id a62mr66682437pge.103.1479103374425; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:02:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from s2001067c037001284e3488fffe433f55.v6.meeting.ietf.org ([2001:67c:370:128:4e34:88ff:fe43:3f55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w24sm29728712pfa.9.2016.11.13.22.02.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:02:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1479103368.2802.9.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano To: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 07:02:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: <465e709d-5001-6c28-e784-1f50e9310757@gmail.com> References: <465e709d-5001-6c28-e784-1f50e9310757@gmail.com> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.1-2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [its] Submitted new version of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 06:03:00 -0000 Hi Alex, Thanks for the update. Please find below some comments (as individual, co-chair hat off), in no particular order: - The abstract says "the operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) has impact on IPv6 handover behaviour and on IPv6 security". Shouldn't we mention there as well ND impacts? - I think the section including the IPv6 packet capture should be moved as an annex, as this is just an example. I'd also remove the mention of the capture from the abstract (the key point/outcome of the document is specifying how IPv6 over 802.11 OCB works). - "Such a station, when it has the flag set, it uses" --> "Such a station, when it has the flag set, uses" - The document should focus on IPv6 only, as the WG is chartered to work on IPv6 only. - In Section 1, handovers between OCB links are highlighted as a key aspect to be addressed. I think other (related) aspects, such as SLAAC, router discovery, etc should be equally mentioned. - WSMP is first mentioned in Section 1, but it is not expanded until later in the document. Please expand and consider also to introduce this to the Terminology section. - Section 2 (Terminology): shouldn't it include OBU? - Section 2 (Terminology): the OCB term appears twice. - Section 4: "as opposed to an arbitrary BSSID value set by administrator (e.g.  'My-Home-AccessPoint')" --> if I'm not mistaken, a BSSID is a MAC address (e.g., the one of the AP), not a string. The example used could be an ESSID, but not a BSSID. - Section 4: it is mentioned that "as opposed to the non- vehicular settings - real wall protection - where fixed MAC addresses do not currently pose some privacy risks". I disagree that MAC addresses do not pose privacy risks in non-vehicular environments. - Section 5: the title of the section is "Design Considerations", of what? Since the document is about IPv6 over 802.11-OCB, and this section is about general design considerations of 802.11-OCB, I think the title of the section should be more specific. - Section 6.1: it is not completely clear how an MTU lower than 1280 bytes can be supported (500 bytes is mentioned as an example). Please clarify how this would be compliant with RFC 2460. - Section 6.1: not sure it is relevant to this document mentioning that the MAC and application layers can fragment, as this would be transparent to the IPv6 layer operation. - Please add captions to all the figures. - Section 6.2: in the figure before Section 6.2.1, please explain the 16 bit after the Source Address ("frame type" field of the Ethernet header). - Section 6.2.1: explain the differences between "IEEE 802.11 Data" and "IEEE 802.11 QoS Data". - Section 6.4: if informational text is finally kept in the draft about geonetworking, please include some informative references. - There has been discussion recently on the efficiency of multicast over wireless, and how to optimize IPv6 multicast over 802.11 networks. I think the issues considered are even more relevant for 802.11-OCB networks (limited bandwidth, many vehicles, high mobility, etc.) - Section 6.6: I'd avoid to tackle issues about subnet structure. We may just refer to the autoconf RFC (as done already) and the document being discussed in intarea. There were quite a lot if discussions in autoconf and this is a very controversial topic, which I think we should stay away from. - Section 7: "The process of movement detection" --> "The process of IPv6 movement detection" - Section 7: it is somehow recommended to increase the RA frequency as a way to improve handover performance, but I guess sending too many RA messages is actually an issue in 802.11-OCB networks, due to the limited bandwidth, large number of vehicles and (again) multicast. I'd suggest to include some analysis on the impact of RA frequency. - I think the document could be shortened, as it is quite long and some information is repeated several times (e.g., the last paragraph before Section 8.2). - Section 8.2: it says "this adaptation layer may consist in elimination of the Radiotap", but the radiotap is not a real header transmitted over the air, so I guess the adaptation layer does not need to do anything about it, right? - Section 9: "amd" --> "and". - Appendix D: I think this is not in the scope of this document (IPv6 over 802.11-OCB). Thanks, Carlos On Mon, 2016-10-31 at 21:38 +0100, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > Hello IPWAVErs, > We submitted a new version of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p- > 05.txt.  This is a merge including draft-ernst-its-ipv6-over- > 80211ocb-00, draft-haerri-ipv6-over-80211OCB-00 and draft-lee-its- > ipv6-over-80211ocb-00.  The new document contains a few other > improvements.  Notably, the comments received during the BoF were > addressed. > Comments are welcome. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05 > Alex > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Sun Nov 13 22:05:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12DF71294C6 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:05:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PhSTvAyF5FOp for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:05:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x234.google.com (mail-pg0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69E3C12944D for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:05:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x234.google.com with SMTP id x23so47426090pgx.1 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:05:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date:in-reply-to:references :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=L5plYluvfVrJ7Ho1Xqhd+XBsLIGGnnMXh0SZGuakFJI=; b=n/Zu2PYLBiz+IdGFZABKH0RxqMd5vfC+Ljp1IzPlGvCv/jZaQxoX56LWHeMqSh+lPZ /Ao2T/kiibAz/ptfsNIain0ktW98foZwOusCZMmBtLwrN4HLOQp+AcqThVN5ICzeigRF 16VeEyIVYqlL12/2AOyb2TC2woEP34QbsIcXzihoppwdhNGXQZRE0oQOrO75iZYvpejC gwlmREZyMyqxPfJj8Ld25PkGM5cnBx7QvFyDh+ilTKNWoWnCUZ11nyy//oX+HU4heFoB 5rJCTQ9Xl9DuNWM7iIdll1V/KpVQ3MunabGjmGZVc+A5A0622Ds6vQBxC/WOcIZGAs1d Laag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date :in-reply-to:references:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=L5plYluvfVrJ7Ho1Xqhd+XBsLIGGnnMXh0SZGuakFJI=; b=jkPE1lEjy0XTb2vEnWQ/M+febD0cOliBbSP9OZX/40i7Mxw3Kv4h4SnU1JHxNDoCCD W0J63yRSDxtEdULaZw6tsIL2BJLTJIMc1c3IGz2+jX0QBTdNVN36j0SlfsoYhjuay0Zp UQUZynPMZEA2rIiaX/Yu13RFQKBe1C3v3KCPnmiEpEiCuz+DBqUzko8idttsZBycEVNL LV5m/GLIsv6OnVct/iNjcC6a0Ufbi9NR9cA1D7zWRSSbwWUavLZgbtzgEfEYoJLNpn4u TWfSnou6E4RO+/E4PSx4OJlNKgNYJT7gGq2Tb4EKNjw08sW9MTdtdvd4ZJof3dYT7R9m iRmA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvd8p99glQMCiaXgBeKs/tjrrUJlosutxfldgt/c1V7HDwH3FE1yaMFfjAQ9ZwkABi11 X-Received: by 10.98.155.9 with SMTP id r9mr33020695pfd.71.1479103501006; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:05:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from s2001067c037001284e3488fffe433f55.v6.meeting.ietf.org ([2001:67c:370:128:4e34:88ff:fe43:3f55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c2sm31898340pfl.66.2016.11.13.22.04.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:05:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1479103496.2802.10.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano To: Jong-Hyouk Lee , its@ietf.org Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 07:04:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <1479100044.2802.4.camel@it.uc3m.es> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.1-2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: Russ Housley Subject: Re: [its] Minute takers and jabber scribe X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 06:05:03 -0000 Thanks Jong-Hyouk! We still need (at least) another minute taker and a jabber scribe. Carlos On Mon, 2016-11-14 at 05:19 +0000, Jong-Hyouk Lee wrote: > I can be the minute taker.  > > J. > On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 at 2:07 PM Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano c3m.es> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > We are looking for a couple of minute takers and a jabber scribe > > for > > session on Wednesday. If you want to be remembered as the minute > > takers > > of the first official IPWAVE meeting session, please volunteer :D > > > > As you know, minutes are very important to keep track of the > > decisions > > and next steps between physical meetings. And jabber is very > > valuable > > resource for our remote attendees. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Carlos & Russ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > From nobody Tue Nov 15 21:01:59 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE48A1294F7 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 21:01:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2cdYfXxB4h2W for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 21:01:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 883D6129457 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 21:01:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E00FF300A9A for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 23:51:39 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id blpe_xx_gCfR for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 23:51:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from dhcp-8c4e.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-8c4e.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.140.78]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 25146300A2D for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 23:51:37 -0500 (EST) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 00:01:54 -0500 To: its@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 05:01:58 -0000 During the discussion of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05 at IETF 97, = the IPWAVE WG talked about whether the document should include any = specification to carry IPv4. The result of that discussion was that the = WG=92s document should only specify IPv6. It was pointed out that a = non-WG document could be written to cover IPv4. Please speak now if you disagree with this direction. Russ From nobody Tue Nov 15 21:49:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773CD129691 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 21:49:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8LfLovCYH-fY for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 21:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5D0112968C for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 21:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A411300AD5 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 00:39:24 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id EM4fIS9qWJ2D for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 00:39:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from dhcp-8c4e.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-8c4e.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.140.78]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8444C3005AD for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 00:39:22 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 00:49:36 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: its@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: [its] Confirming WG adoption of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 05:49:42 -0000 During the discussion of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05 at IETF 97, = a hum was taken. Most people in the IPWAVE WG session felt that the = next version of the document should be adopted as the starting point for = the WG standards track deliverable. It was assumed that the next = version would include updates based on the discussion that took place in = the room. Please speak now if you disagree with the IPWAVE WG adopting the next = version of this document. Russ From nobody Tue Nov 15 22:30:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietf.org Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C9E129673; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:30:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.37.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <147927780347.10221.11766024850234219282.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:30:03 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [its] The IPWAVE WG has placed draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:30:04 -0000 The IPWAVE WG has placed draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Carlos Bernardos) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p/ From nobody Wed Nov 16 01:07:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857E012954E for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 01:07:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PfdrhO5Hhsio for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 01:07:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3097D12967F for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 01:02:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF30300AD7 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 03:52:03 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 8C1AIzt7JCV5 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 03:52:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from dhcp-8c4e.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-8c4e.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.140.78]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 179F5300A3C for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 03:52:01 -0500 (EST) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 04:02:16 -0500 References: <147917840468.8537.625814152732987731.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: its@ietf.org Message-Id: <0A41F526-5772-457A-A154-6F75F7D047EE@vigilsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: [its] Fwd: IESG Statement: Support Documents in IETF Working Groups X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 09:07:50 -0000 During the IPWAVE WG session today, this IESG Statement was referenced. = I am posting it here to make sure that everyone understands the IESG=92s = position. Russ > From: The IESG > Subject: IESG Statement: Support Documents in IETF Working Groups=20 > Date: November 14, 2016 at 9:53:24 PM EST > To: "IETF Announcement List" > Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org >=20 > There is a class of documents that help guiding a working group to = agree=20 > on the problem(s) and even converge on a solution. These support=20 > documents can include, for example, problem statements, use cases, and=20= > requirements. >=20 > While support documents are important for the operation of a working=20= > group and to drive progress, perfecting and publishing those documents=20= > can consume scarce community resources, which in the end can delay the=20= > solution work. There is no formal expectation that requires the=20 > development and publication as RFCs of support documents in sequence=20= > before starting the solution work: problem statement, use cases,=20 > requirements, and then finally architecture and protocol = specifications,=20 > for instance. >=20 > In order to speed up the time period from idea to running code, the = IESG=20 > supports working groups that commence solution work early in the = working=20 > group timeline, and do not wait for completion and publication of the=20= > support documents. When the problem scope is well understood and = agreed=20 > upon, charters focused on solutions work are extremely efficient. >=20 > While writing down such things as requirements and use cases help to = get=20 > a common understanding (and often common language) between = participants=20 > in the working group, support documentation doesn=92t always have a = high=20 > archival value. Under most circumstances, the IESG encourages the=20 > community to consider alternate mechanisms for publishing this = content,=20 > such as on a working group wiki, in an informational appendix of a=20 > solution document, or simply as an expired draft. As regards to = timing,=20 > it would be worthwhile to discuss the need to publish support = documents=20 > early during the charter development process in order to set the right=20= > expectations and minimize surprises at a late stage. Therefore, = working=20 > group charters may direct the working group to publish this content=20 > using alternate mechanisms, or may instruct the working group to=20 > consider the appropriate mechanism as work proceeds.=20 From nobody Wed Nov 16 06:42:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 916EE1294FF for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:42:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kvGTNrIEWhAR for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:42:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 472231294AF for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:42:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.236]) by resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 71PXcluuMGkXB71PhcUL0S; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:42:13 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.6] ([50.136.242.148]) by resomta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 71PecNTGVjuMt71PfcxkFf; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:42:12 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) From: Tony Li In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:42:10 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Russ Housley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfBm2s0Wn6JRwKTDT24ysgYESh9JXr5NQ8mPj3ZKivbeL3fChCB0GJ7c2kTBC3KRg71HXB7j5j86tIsoFr2Ycm781g57MfsDhfB4F7xHlw3DH5hrjgubL C1E+dcTjEIMnBFcv9xgEJql1wGMhaQoLDk4KKK0d3mpgrDbmAoHKf1q6+xg/39vBmTw9tcf0XKDF7A== Archived-At: Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:42:20 -0000 I disagree. IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 encoding for = 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this document is = very efficient since it has so much in common with the IPv6 encoding. = Creating a separate document solves no problems, it only creates more = work. Tony p.s. First reply got queued for moderation as I mistakenly sent it from = the wrong email account. Please pardon any duplicates. > On Nov 15, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Russ Housley = wrote: >=20 > During the discussion of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05 at IETF = 97, the IPWAVE WG talked about whether the document should include any = specification to carry IPv4. The result of that discussion was that the = WG=E2=80=99s document should only specify IPv6. It was pointed out that = a non-WG document could be written to cover IPv4. >=20 > Please speak now if you disagree with this direction. >=20 > Russ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From tony1athome@gmail.com Wed Nov 16 06:23:18 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70B71295C0 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:23:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F4cgJsDqz80R for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:23:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x230.google.com (mail-qk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D4B712967E for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:23:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id n21so176755127qka.3 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:23:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=yXitWrLhtQxfl0Ot6RSmaTt/JjQ6LhqOBhKNNYm8BL4=; b=R6Q14wjaUW4//AufyNJa1829/z+BbkkARTMhkLcO19svQq11CoICiJLAY9YePw+dtO aTK5SfoJaxtu8rxMyXio7NOKVcVXezx8osdx+86hqyTgcfzR7H52UQy+c/ENrw5PauNN 8/I1tqQgVmY5hJFEnnjfc3v/9XEoBt57Z/Pt9Y9Lcc1bYiXLCBw11Sx7OxHaBlnf+lv9 r2XEXbEagpsS6X8I6JLd28+6nId4UhmNeGVtuSOgOhtC2xuIINQLggJ1SpnQ6ztWPclp BwSeqSY6Z/Oe94QvYJdd4Iu3IRxSB7406D3CUiSZB9L0UqYznqK8NRMBObQLQ6R94wOt Duxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=yXitWrLhtQxfl0Ot6RSmaTt/JjQ6LhqOBhKNNYm8BL4=; b=Y7oo84sQOzhNIpUhrkra11fXW9AE6Nqv4S+MSzKortPoamGwB2RsMsZTmgB0fo7OIq z+N/xriW53dYjiH8XHsLDBetW3sg6aJab5XtrpQYDTbuQb8YxNtCiiFArAYO69grK9SB peshI1sBShoGaSbaCku+0GKLwrCxBuTtYs6RjA9sZmWWlx8eqp2CsXq3iF9tRPKS/aFq 1ImmGC5c1c0GwAyaV63cuFRLbw5/VuiDq1QB7ipJuWJIjNlaSfA/9/2K4/wjJ3a/U3gJ 0HQOtsSWZWdEb4J7rUtxA/hp/685tcONOM00il7HclRUV6ois86+ezDDmv6bxuqqRA0Y cSmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02shJ5hAbkaJ8QUgBbhXtgDfAMgFt3ShZL6/fFYfO6bKPkHZX1LXeFo+J6K4NTTdZSUkuzhRME1z960Qg== X-Received: by 10.55.114.70 with SMTP id n67mr3881611qkc.185.1479306194305; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:23:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tony Li Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:23:03 +0000 Message-ID: To: Russ Housley , its@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114fe52c39ccd705416bd0b7 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 15:50:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:26:26 -0000 --001a114fe52c39ccd705416bd0b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I disagree. IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 encoding for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this document is very efficient since it has so much in common with the IPv6 encoding. Creating a separate document solves no problems, it only creates more work. Tony On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 9:02 PM Russ Housley wrote: > During the discussion of draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05 at IETF 97, > the IPWAVE WG talked about whether the document should include any > specification to carry IPv4. The result of that discussion was that the > WG=E2=80=99s document should only specify IPv6. It was pointed out that = a non-WG > document could be written to cover IPv4. > > Please speak now if you disagree with this direction. > > Russ > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --001a114fe52c39ccd705416bd0b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I disagree.

IPv4 is pretty i= mportant to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 encoding for 802.11p needs to be = documented somewhere. Doing so in this document is very efficient since it = has so much in common with the IPv6 encoding. Creating a separate document = solves no problems, it only creates more work.

Tony

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 9:02 PM Russ H= ousley <housley@vigilsec.com= > wrote:
During the discussion o= f draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-05 at IETF 97, the IPWAVE WG talked about= whether the document should include any specification to carry IPv4.=C2=A0= The result of that discussion was that the WG=E2=80=99s document should on= ly specify IPv6.=C2=A0 It was pointed out that a non-WG document could be w= ritten to cover IPv4.

Please speak now if you disagree with this direction.

Russ

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@i= etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i= ts
--001a114fe52c39ccd705416bd0b7-- From nobody Wed Nov 16 17:21:00 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A5A12961E for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:20:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2e9PdgsWJA-H for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [IPv6:2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:de77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA5181295E8 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:20:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (dhcp-8d96.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.141.150]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 795651F906; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:20:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 7FAD433DC; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:20:54 +0900 (KST) From: Michael Richardson To: Tony Li In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to Tony Li message dated "Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:42:10 -0800." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:20:54 +0900 Message-ID: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> Archived-At: Cc: Russ Housley , its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:20:59 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony Li wrote: > IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 encoding for > 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this document is > very efficient since it has so much in common with the IPv6 > encoding. Creating a separate document solves no problems, it only > creates more work. And, I hear terrible things from BobM about how the automotive industry intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems for decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just fine, and it's all greenfield. Given the total greenfield usage with devices not yet built, I'm inclined to given them a /24 of class E space for play in if they insist on being so st= upid) So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about any attempts to communicate inappropriately. =2D-=20 Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYLQX2AAoJEJVM4Vb9/EKQShsH/2wc9UQaduGoqPhwJKQWU58y 7wNP/3iUf9s5YL5qw3FcPtwEyX3oWIv2PT0cJ0pmLwE2FTZgLfYd6AJeBlCq3edA TsrxgGKksXSl77fK3CeF/T3DrEnQNdkAzq3BrKrGpyU2vzPQoOr02tp1n5dYckj+ 17OldbLgRliU+JwBa5N9FVJUEuU7DTWHELj1ATnTMN7XbbZak0XmnM83ypdalnEb 3uoh7PM152yqFD7sc96V7CeAlEJcRKbuQm+xSVS2WkKx3R+AEr58gy0aqJdtQyGe WkPaIPNtrC1rpyl+8eYHnvDi9b6I4IUpF2zxwN8BdF+wZmuqpy/0fLAaN6b/hpE= =MolT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Nov 16 17:49:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33BA129478 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:49:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.353 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.353 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rPTXuk1Dr45h for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D96E1293D8 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.4) with ESMTP id uAH1mvqY016472 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:48:57 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 06A66200DAB for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:48:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E17200C29 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:48:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from [132.166.84.18] ([132.166.84.18]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id uAH1mt7r031468 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:48:56 +0100 To: its@ietf.org References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <6e6a4902-b33e-29a2-ebcd-352cc3145679@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:48:53 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:49:01 -0000 Le 17/11/2016 à 10:20, Michael Richardson a écrit : > > Tony Li wrote: >> IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 encoding >> for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this >> document is very efficient since it has so much in common with the >> IPv6 encoding. Creating a separate document solves no problems, it >> only creates more work. > > And, I hear terrible things from BobM about how the automotive > industry intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems for > decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just fine, and > it's all greenfield. Given the total greenfield usage with devices > not yet built, I'm inclined to given them a /24 of class E space for > play in if they insist on being so stupid) :-) "stupid"? They have their own constraints about this IPv4. And these constraints dont come from them, but from device manufacturers, operators, software houses... > So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent > that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about > any attempts to communicate inappropriately. At this point I think it would make sense to write a separate IPv4-over-802-11-OCB document. There is interest in that. I would simply avoid to go against the Charter (which says IPv6 only). Alex > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Thu Nov 17 02:35:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE5F129615 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:35:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L8-xaTEPAum5 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x229.google.com (mail-pg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A4021294D4 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x229.google.com with SMTP id 3so90567239pgd.0 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:35:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:date:in-reply-to:references :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DxqiqAkEZaHt5hrYoiKmDHCLxrOxxfOQtxSp5P+AE7o=; b=jxcMFE+Y9GKYBdkHNcqine1knFORsHubzpPmX01uz6bCAclM1EJSirh7D7waQR7Bd/ mX8SRHCNocpUhUtFMOTeQIRC8zmYadS+0uxLxl8lyMKGwC/23wPAS5KanZQrktvSR+9c BDmeK/u78zTTXvCzkBJzK6eyeudgmZad0pTeiFvxVGT9YXPtYlf8D2QZG9khnFjaAgre aunFpOJHCDPoJMlenxsEWGguS4fTPMeGbzrc6mOPyOCtrHwqv4PrvhuX6+hw19/AUO8l PRZJDZ45Fw1n/fVBHTGE1Rsx7dX++9qUoWi6jUqF/sVN0naggCsX5R7n4wuO9EY3O4QA BaSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:date :in-reply-to:references:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=DxqiqAkEZaHt5hrYoiKmDHCLxrOxxfOQtxSp5P+AE7o=; b=WJ89iQfHQvu4au7dJGFMzzJFtrpL22emxOWwHxc0sh1gY8lX5GZizwIthku5I1imBx 4Y0FWFtrsrPHxcpEwoiOYUXNnOjoV13Lrfa+pPbFZa1I3CwTVyEQ8Exh7RI0LSjkFBr6 1Sp1lto2jIGpIbgUgexLXO6MToa+a7RIZe+PjZ5KqL0VN18u6cukHA9CTOdb5Iwf5O2n 4ncLqsUqPcb6nJoIwV/GDva+313VGA5bwZsWh0Q5kPxJw8EgEl5bSIX1Ji3e3ZNzH0vU O4HlSWedqpI73tEQmsEUhN9JSoMDdpLnsECSsU5EUqHY9STdF3dLqLUXATBGhOjJ27Qz igkw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvfzXJjhjMYU64+px0z7Vf/PqvUxcVDriFBiiwauywNCysihY3SRRnTxdmyGVOZNJHGQ X-Received: by 10.98.88.4 with SMTP id m4mr3726695pfb.81.1479378923078; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c03700144752b0e8c590aeac4.hotel-wired.v6.meeting.ietf.org ([2001:67c:370:144:752b:e8c:590a:eac4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d197sm2663495pfd.38.2016.11.17.02.35.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:35:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1479378917.4385.0.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano To: Alexandre Petrescu , its@ietf.org Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 11:35:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <6e6a4902-b33e-29a2-ebcd-352cc3145679@gmail.com> References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> <6e6a4902-b33e-29a2-ebcd-352cc3145679@gmail.com> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.2-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:35:26 -0000 Hi, The charter and the AD are clear on this. Our main deliverable (and only standards track document) in the current charter is IPv6-only, so let's keep it like that. This does not mean that the group cannot discuss about IPv4 issues and raise the need for such a kind of work (if that is the case). If there is strong support behind considering IPv4, the IESG might allow us to work on that as well. Besides, it doesn't seem at this time that significant changes would need to be considered to support IPv4. But the key message is to focus on our IPv6-only main deliverable for the time being. Thanks, Carlos & Russ On Thu, 2016-11-17 at 10:48 +0900, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > Le 17/11/2016 à 10:20, Michael Richardson a écrit : > > > > Tony Li wrote: > > > IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 > > > encoding > > > for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this > > > document is very efficient since it has so much in common with > > > the > > > IPv6 encoding. Creating a separate document solves no problems, > > > it > > > only creates more work. > > > > And, I hear terrible things from BobM about how the automotive > > industry intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems for > > decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just fine, > > and > > it's all greenfield. Given the total greenfield usage with devices > > not yet built, I'm inclined to given them a /24 of class E space > > for > > play in if they insist on being so stupid) > > :-) "stupid"?  They have their own constraints about this IPv4.  And > these constraints dont come from them, but from device manufacturers, > operators, software houses... > > > So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent > > that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about > > any attempts to communicate inappropriately. > > At this point I think it would make sense to write a separate > IPv4-over-802-11-OCB document.  There is interest in that. > > I would simply avoid to go against the Charter (which says IPv6 > only). > > Alex > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Thu Nov 17 02:49:11 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043B31296C7 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:49:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5_k32nx08dDe for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:49:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com (mail-wm0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A480129664 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:49:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x230.google.com with SMTP id g23so302326986wme.1 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:49:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=KOAsFE8Ln3PMQenQxp0LVkxqRux57Bvwrqly3WTzpMU=; b=fQnQalu1wixhu+x/hFDFt+hbdvq3GnXnkqT4sDa2JWG9E8vihjKHvnDbiTMWggyBLW NpmsUYWKs/F1I40SskcpiKSDqL41l07mVXS2wbSWy/l90CaU4dWsmkoHKXmKOU05NUXD hknsCDBgoK4vEP2ttHbFYVwO95s43li79xRDRGWUS/3YAujhrku+vB8Ai3RTxfB8w9me i0iRcCUPBwEBdkko712j3KUgDQp1sh02PTuztvQDIA2XAjtG5HPbOvVAJthDESXCkkJO +e0fIdrQXou0E1B+i/Ekf95J4G0x/ekuxnx/DHEv2/lkVG1bujeJ2kYACfWNGe+N08pv S03g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=KOAsFE8Ln3PMQenQxp0LVkxqRux57Bvwrqly3WTzpMU=; b=KYLERVPle3WpVJp0PVXr+olNLtxydZWfsvfE4J6xNjZiXP6qm3vF4tNSzm1uUn9wJe KZke9TutycG2XyD69C4Pf9iiFE59H1Zndhy0for4XItmzlIUR/bevUsI6PTMElyrYKv9 M0biXCT8cPaahE+gmqG4npEKQffNy7+0M74u4PM3pX/UBAWskYnaPcpPs+hKqvqq/+8s BIT+E7L45cGkYf4erH8eHJ182QAmWWLhCsfYsbdnZpmZERolckS5j5ZDf9zEHW7GuZBT bifdogU9xEFsbcUfZbFrexfbjakh7IhgqAZKfLcvhaJQH8VHaknWA486u4KZC83qMchL uLSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvc+bPQS/ChUuq8nRSWIEKPzGv85FofhfhhkJa6QYvFOzbyrY7VftNqwe+rkcEqe5Q== X-Received: by 10.28.148.81 with SMTP id w78mr14800825wmd.42.1479379746085; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.43.210] ([105.132.177.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i132sm14935917wmf.14.2016.11.17.02.49.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:49:05 -0800 (PST) From: Nabil BENAMAR Message-Id: <5B3EADFA-AA34-4C4D-97A7-1B84901FFD79@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7D613DA8-13E8-421C-90B6-0FD21D7C57B3" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:49:02 +0000 In-Reply-To: <1479378917.4385.0.camel@it.uc3m.es> To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> <6e6a4902-b33e-29a2-ebcd-352cc3145679@gmail.com> <1479378917.4385.0.camel@it.uc3m.es> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) Archived-At: Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:49:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7D613DA8-13E8-421C-90B6-0FD21D7C57B3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, As a co-author of this draft, I welcome this decision ! Best Regards, Nabil=20 > On Nov 17, 2016, at 10:35 AM, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > The charter and the AD are clear on this. Our main deliverable (and > only standards track document) in the current charter is IPv6-only, so > let's keep it like that. >=20 > This does not mean that the group cannot discuss about IPv4 issues and > raise the need for such a kind of work (if that is the case). If there > is strong support behind considering IPv4, the IESG might allow us to > work on that as well. Besides, it doesn't seem at this time that > significant changes would need to be considered to support IPv4. >=20 > But the key message is to focus on our IPv6-only main deliverable for > the time being. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Carlos & Russ >=20 > On Thu, 2016-11-17 at 10:48 +0900, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: >> Le 17/11/2016 =C3=A0 10:20, Michael Richardson a =C3=A9crit : >>>=20 >>> Tony Li wrote: >>>> IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 >>>> encoding >>>> for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this >>>> document is very efficient since it has so much in common with >>>> the >>>> IPv6 encoding. Creating a separate document solves no problems, >>>> it >>>> only creates more work. >>>=20 >>> And, I hear terrible things from BobM about how the automotive >>> industry intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems for >>> decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just fine, >>> and >>> it's all greenfield. Given the total greenfield usage with devices >>> not yet built, I'm inclined to given them a /24 of class E space >>> for >>> play in if they insist on being so stupid) >>=20 >> :-) "stupid"? They have their own constraints about this IPv4. And >> these constraints dont come from them, but from device manufacturers, >> operators, software houses... >>=20 >>> So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent >>> that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about >>> any attempts to communicate inappropriately. >>=20 >> At this point I think it would make sense to write a separate >> IPv4-over-802-11-OCB document. There is interest in that. >>=20 >> I would simply avoid to go against the Charter (which says IPv6 >> only). >>=20 >> Alex >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >=20 > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its --Apple-Mail=_7D613DA8-13E8-421C-90B6-0FD21D7C57B3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi,

As a = co-author of this draft, I welcome this decision !



Best Regards,
Nabil 
=

On Nov 17, 2016, at 10:35 AM, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos = Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> wrote:

Hi,
The charter and the AD are clear on this. Our = main deliverable (and
only standards track document) in = the current charter is IPv6-only, so
let's keep it like = that.

This does not mean that the group = cannot discuss about IPv4 issues and
raise the need for = such a kind of work (if that is the case). If there
is = strong support behind considering IPv4, the IESG might allow us to
work on that as well. Besides, it doesn't seem at this = time that
significant changes would need to be considered = to support IPv4.

But the key message is to = focus on our IPv6-only main deliverable for
the time = being.

Thanks,

Carlos & Russ

On Thu, = 2016-11-17 at 10:48 +0900, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
Le 17/11/2016 =C3=A0 = 10:20, Michael Richardson a =C3=A9crit :

Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> = wrote:
IPv4 is pretty = important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4
encoding
for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in = this
document is very efficient since it has so much in = common with
the
IPv6 encoding. Creating a = separate document solves no problems,
it
only = creates more work.

And, I hear = terrible things from BobM about how the automotive
industry = intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems for
decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just = fine,
and
it's all greenfield. Given the = total greenfield usage with devices
not yet built, I'm = inclined to given them a /24 of class E space
for
play in if they insist on being so stupid)

:-) "stupid"?  They = have their own constraints about this IPv4.  And
these constraints dont come from them, but from device = manufacturers,
operators, software houses...

So, = ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent
that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert = about
any attempts to communicate inappropriately.

At this point I think it would = make sense to write a separate
IPv4-over-802-11-OCB = document.  There is interest in that.

I would simply avoid to go against the Charter (which says = IPv6
only).

Alex




_______________________________________________ its mailing = list
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_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

_______________________________________________
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its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

= --Apple-Mail=_7D613DA8-13E8-421C-90B6-0FD21D7C57B3-- From nobody Thu Nov 17 05:08:58 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C92B129627 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:08:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HK_NAME_FM_MR_MRS=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2MSMMurCaCnv for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb0-x233.google.com (mail-yb0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14623129421 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb0-x233.google.com with SMTP id a184so53524230ybb.0 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:08:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Fnx3P2RVWZbB1Vl+iqf6P9477FG9tR0y6CEeC6ZkdCs=; b=EmUJvwrj0edu5sGCKzSH0NPMqWOgmyZr3zwQWR86vmlRc2J8Tyku31t1nuz39tKTT6 4ZRNPTcoKLQmNyys3FVi76sInzRtTnarTqPNj3IvOYTMaUXoIVO3laO3dhcT9y/vIQm7 /x9SnwbQUTp6bnKH0lTHt7RbUq/hH7VnPWUsf57miSFe2knDik/zUhhZT1ENxt+7OK/J Ffa3JnFxnrqN0yfseadc50s/FQAurI6yogml44x04Jll+EfPBA1BI52+PQTcgxnUgmpQ kqnhocrfl8xS1bpHZvqO5T0y1YbP16dt8aItF25YkVhB8i2Zx/YhslUosdXXuzAfarNT CN9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Fnx3P2RVWZbB1Vl+iqf6P9477FG9tR0y6CEeC6ZkdCs=; b=PlPglOuID0Be5bcTYmPY7RHn0XrOt9nIwZNvPeoQ3RtL0xowF7KpbphCnzzNMaPJ7v oZeF1LWNhz4l0T9q5sInfgex2U9u5ybkZjFlxcEj9Csn9aFgErwzNsOtRev+4hkybG1b yTuWFYM3M+e+sYHcwwkbjsKCr3nBtDj9huFFeRhJk41xNqtAELFQOJaqNZdaiyeHylcQ obHz8ZXSHwiPPGDf+qCsqUKfdS2oMTo9LsE3d0Ge8z1mGy2p4rmclpdGQ4EsOvrfBAs2 U1zrskVMHEddZ0cUp6dP878v+mbJthUNUl0Nq4n2lkvG22rdOoiGp2UmyWRzMqlaSbmn Xh7g== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvf9KDBwPNTNfgbsmauLvwcPACRG6eCgXJ5smkRytpqwNHNjCsDcjEB23jkE72GGHhV3ukrHG0gXlASHuw== X-Received: by 10.129.159.71 with SMTP id w68mr3394580ywg.240.1479388135238; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:08:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.129.155.3 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:08:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.129.155.3 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:08:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5B3EADFA-AA34-4C4D-97A7-1B84901FFD79@gmail.com> References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> <6e6a4902-b33e-29a2-ebcd-352cc3145679@gmail.com> <1479378917.4385.0.camel@it.uc3m.es> <5B3EADFA-AA34-4C4D-97A7-1B84901FFD79@gmail.com> From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 22:08:54 +0900 Message-ID: To: Nabil Benamar Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0bcc684931c405417ee472 Archived-At: Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , cjbc@it.uc3m.es, its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 13:08:58 -0000 --94eb2c0bcc684931c405417ee472 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi IPWAVEers, I support the opinion that ipwave WG need to focuse on IPv6 according to the WG milestone. Once we deliver the expected documents timely, we may work for IPv4 on ipwave. Thanks. Best Regards, Paul 2016. 11. 17. =EC=98=A4=ED=9B=84 7:49=EC=97=90 "Nabil BENAMAR" =EB=8B=98=EC=9D=B4 =EC=9E=91=EC=84=B1: > Hi, > > As a co-author of this draft, I welcome this decision ! > > > > Best Regards, > Nabil > > On Nov 17, 2016, at 10:35 AM, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano > wrote: > > Hi, > > The charter and the AD are clear on this. Our main deliverable (and > only standards track document) in the current charter is IPv6-only, so > let's keep it like that. > > This does not mean that the group cannot discuss about IPv4 issues and > raise the need for such a kind of work (if that is the case). If there > is strong support behind considering IPv4, the IESG might allow us to > work on that as well. Besides, it doesn't seem at this time that > significant changes would need to be considered to support IPv4. > > But the key message is to focus on our IPv6-only main deliverable for > the time being. > > Thanks, > > Carlos & Russ > > On Thu, 2016-11-17 at 10:48 +0900, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > > Le 17/11/2016 =C3=A0 10:20, Michael Richardson a =C3=A9crit : > > > Tony Li wrote: > > IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 > encoding > for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this > document is very efficient since it has so much in common with > the > IPv6 encoding. Creating a separate document solves no problems, > it > only creates more work. > > > And, I hear terrible things from BobM about how the automotive > industry intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems for > decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just fine, > and > it's all greenfield. Given the total greenfield usage with devices > not yet built, I'm inclined to given them a /24 of class E space > for > play in if they insist on being so stupid) > > > :-) "stupid"? They have their own constraints about this IPv4. And > these constraints dont come from them, but from device manufacturers, > operators, software houses... > > So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent > that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about > any attempts to communicate inappropriately. > > > At this point I think it would make sense to write a separate > IPv4-over-802-11-OCB document. There is interest in that. > > I would simply avoid to go against the Charter (which says IPv6 > only). > > Alex > > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > --94eb2c0bcc684931c405417ee472 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi IPWAVEers,
I support the opinion that ipwave WG need to focuse on IPv6 according to th= e WG milestone.
Once we deliver the expected documents timely, we may work for IPv4 on ipwa= ve.

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Paul


2016. 11. 17. =EC= =98=A4=ED=9B=84 7:49=EC=97=90 "Nabil BENAMAR" <benamar73@gmail.com>=EB=8B=98=EC=9D=B4 =EC= =9E=91=EC=84=B1:
Hi,

As a co-author of t= his draft, I welcome this decision !



Best Regards,
Nabil=C2=A0

On Nov 17, 2016, at 10:35 AM, Carlo= s Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> wrote:

Hi,

The charter and the = AD are clear on this. Our main deliverable (and
only standards track doc= ument) in the current charter is IPv6-only, so
let's keep it like th= at.

This does not mean that the group cannot discuss about IPv4 issu= es and
raise the need for such a kind of work (if that is the case). If = there
is strong support behind considering IPv4, the IESG might allow us= to
work on that as well.=C2=A0Besides, it doesn't seem at this time= that
significant changes would need to be considered to support IPv4.
But the key message is to focus on our IPv6-only main deliverable for=
the time being.

Thanks,

Carlos & Russ

On Thu, = 2016-11-17 at 10:48 +0900, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
Le 17/11/2016 =C3=A0 10:20, Michael Richardson a =C3=A9crit :

Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:
IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4
encoding
= for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this
document = is very efficient since it has so much in common with
the
IPv6 encodi= ng. Creating a separate document solves no problems,
it
only creates = more work.

And, I hear terrible things from BobM about = how the automotive
industry intends to use IPv4 space for it's contr= ol systems for
decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work jus= t fine,
and
it's all greenfield. Given the total greenfield usage= with devices
not yet built, I'm inclined to given them a /24 of cla= ss E space
for
play in if they insist on being so stupid)

:-) "stupid"?=C2=A0=C2=A0They have their own constraints= about this IPv4.=C2=A0=C2=A0And
these constraints dont come from them, = but from device manufacturers,
operators, software houses...

So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, t= o the extent
that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and aler= t about
any attempts to communicate inappropriately.
At this point I think it would make sense to write a separate
IPv4-over= -802-11-OCB document.=C2=A0=C2=A0There is interest in that.

I would = simply avoid to go against the Charter (which says IPv6
only).

Al= ex




___________________________= ____________________ its mailing list
its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin= fo/its


___________________________________= ____________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its=

_____________________________________________= __
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its


___________________________= ____________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

--94eb2c0bcc684931c405417ee472-- From nobody Thu Nov 17 07:44:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E05C41294C0 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 07:44:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kv4Gt2Sui6vB for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 07:44:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D706212940A for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 07:44:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.107]) by resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 7OqLcIrDn1XXB7OrDc5Gal; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 15:44:11 +0000 Received: from [10.120.1.76] ([12.1.72.210]) by resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 7Op4cTZEzhUx87Op7cHyMU; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 15:42:10 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) From: Tony Li In-Reply-To: <1479378917.4385.0.camel@it.uc3m.es> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 07:41:57 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4D3C9C14-3B44-4A67-A4F4-33E540E96705@tony.li> References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> <6e6a4902-b33e-29a2-ebcd-352cc3145679@gmail.com> <1479378917.4385.0.camel@it.uc3m.es> To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfIfaoUUCSm5MXDINANaeNhR8cme9mOKAYMVt1fPaqAzVDxoTjNIW/jcN10WoCtDEnkajJo0NC91ad/E3epQcltQE+ICrvU2hXv6l/+Pyo7DVixSBm7VF BKHESfLukPEoeUF0XZWyDw2rG1cJHEH1znYkMBpvRVU/GwTyijYePN+lTuhKK2iHbZl5y0KcfV0cAThcmb2/OIzN2DlWThMuln7AiPc4D26QUt/F5QT5vjsP Archived-At: Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 15:44:15 -0000 Ok, ok, I can take a hint. Subtle it was=E2=80=A6 ;-) Standing offer: if anyone would like to collaborate on IPv4, please = contact me. Ciao, Tony > On Nov 17, 2016, at 2:35 AM, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > The charter and the AD are clear on this. Our main deliverable (and > only standards track document) in the current charter is IPv6-only, so > let's keep it like that. >=20 > This does not mean that the group cannot discuss about IPv4 issues and > raise the need for such a kind of work (if that is the case). If there > is strong support behind considering IPv4, the IESG might allow us to > work on that as well. Besides, it doesn't seem at this time that > significant changes would need to be considered to support IPv4. >=20 > But the key message is to focus on our IPv6-only main deliverable for > the time being. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Carlos & Russ >=20 > On Thu, 2016-11-17 at 10:48 +0900, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: >> Le 17/11/2016 =C3=A0 10:20, Michael Richardson a =C3=A9crit : >>>=20 >>> Tony Li wrote: >>>> IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 >>>> encoding >>>> for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this >>>> document is very efficient since it has so much in common with >>>> the >>>> IPv6 encoding. Creating a separate document solves no problems, >>>> it >>>> only creates more work. >>>=20 >>> And, I hear terrible things from BobM about how the automotive >>> industry intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems for >>> decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just fine, >>> and >>> it's all greenfield. Given the total greenfield usage with devices >>> not yet built, I'm inclined to given them a /24 of class E space >>> for >>> play in if they insist on being so stupid) >>=20 >> :-) "stupid"? They have their own constraints about this IPv4. And >> these constraints dont come from them, but from device manufacturers, >> operators, software houses... >>=20 >>> So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent >>> that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about >>> any attempts to communicate inappropriately. >>=20 >> At this point I think it would make sense to write a separate >> IPv4-over-802-11-OCB document. There is interest in that. >>=20 >> I would simply avoid to go against the Charter (which says IPv6 >> only). >>=20 >> Alex >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >=20 > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Thu Nov 17 08:10:09 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4467129624 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:10:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z292uwpo9pwt for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:10:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua0-x234.google.com (mail-ua0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7296012940C for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:10:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 51so146488166uai.1 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:10:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=p05gp2he+26h1gzmaRRFbmU8cVqIMicQCLTtg+Mo4YQ=; b=BP52rXeTOYHCIi1xwaR2D3B35nCru/+ZM5j/yLD7nC0twhKDFDjBlz3cTwJAtCEXF8 lKP83yWLUwaH6RFLowrlVyr1FzKPuooIDgjLgaaseCMm1UbiF4a6DkLdYWGBQYMiGB5n /Bxv5TIbFg679QPySXx96VMtXAjsV22YsZBYtxIcwAVZiidR63IAEdWq9iAtKaWRxBS5 L+Yfx3QCm2B7m5hwelhE6x6MhUREQJjITjMXFcxs8QS5GPS7go6L37PlBUCj17eqUOWs 9bLgz+2K3LFbTFcmnSbwaCGarZElElH+dCpLvoBt7NPwSh+a8CfpgbGUX+hDFEBTN7n8 yQ6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=p05gp2he+26h1gzmaRRFbmU8cVqIMicQCLTtg+Mo4YQ=; b=MEeBTJvKzfk3SXQDIH45RDvOwPTNzyOyO5MDuI5wn1Y78iMhYddKCP+gFOgcZwM/oc HgjqZEs00fKRN7Q3lqV9fFcjFy7jrlmNI3IT2jOEv0sWqRc9H3wDJAI1/BZwHdlR1ICf sDWLG7jyLfT3SBr8QcSQv0mRiRGEC0GRO52U0PnQ4QfTienIZo+BPJQP9UTxAuKVlsXj /RhaCH+UqWDK8VJ7JOAoCL3jtkMxkeR+xBQMLjeRnVcQ896uSIAv4gVNVyUCpZuBCuAq P4UPa4l2Rj/cG+71eU3FVWHjLoF8WAzrCvqIeJJ/WugBU0/HYm32sVeZXLXyau3pA4My Ny/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC00h+ezNayVStm2ilisX+KibK2/qqyc6TCt/nqlHaW1zW51HydLcPhACH2fI2Bwmlinhw5arRcGstgKlCA== X-Received: by 10.176.2.145 with SMTP id 17mr1913556uah.38.1479399005565; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:10:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> <6e6a4902-b33e-29a2-ebcd-352cc3145679@gmail.com> <1479378917.4385.0.camel@it.uc3m.es> In-Reply-To: <1479378917.4385.0.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Dapeng Liu Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:09:54 +0000 Message-ID: To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es, Alexandre Petrescu , its@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113e37883539c80541816cfe Archived-At: Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:10:09 -0000 --001a113e37883539c80541816cfe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I think this approach makes sense. We can certainly discuss what is the IPv4 work need to be done and when we find it out we may have more clear idea regarding how to move it forward. Thanks, Dapeng Liu On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano wrote: > Hi, > > The charter and the AD are clear on this. Our main deliverable (and > only standards track document) in the current charter is IPv6-only, so > let's keep it like that. > > This does not mean that the group cannot discuss about IPv4 issues and > raise the need for such a kind of work (if that is the case). If there > is strong support behind considering IPv4, the IESG might allow us to > work on that as well. Besides, it doesn't seem at this time that > significant changes would need to be considered to support IPv4. > > But the key message is to focus on our IPv6-only main deliverable for > the time being. > > Thanks, > > Carlos & Russ > > On Thu, 2016-11-17 at 10:48 +0900, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > > Le 17/11/2016 =C3=A0 10:20, Michael Richardson a =C3=A9crit : > > > > > > Tony Li wrote: > > > > IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 > > > > encoding > > > > for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this > > > > document is very efficient since it has so much in common with > > > > the > > > > IPv6 encoding. Creating a separate document solves no problems, > > > > it > > > > only creates more work. > > > > > > And, I hear terrible things from BobM about how the automotive > > > industry intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems for > > > decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just fine, > > > and > > > it's all greenfield. Given the total greenfield usage with devices > > > not yet built, I'm inclined to given them a /24 of class E space > > > for > > > play in if they insist on being so stupid) > > > > :-) "stupid"? They have their own constraints about this IPv4. And > > these constraints dont come from them, but from device manufacturers, > > operators, software houses... > > > > > So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent > > > that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about > > > any attempts to communicate inappropriately. > > > > At this point I think it would make sense to write a separate > > IPv4-over-802-11-OCB document. There is interest in that. > > > > I would simply avoid to go against the Charter (which says IPv6 > > only). > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > > > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --001a113e37883539c80541816cfe Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I think this approach makes sense.= =C2=A0 We can certainly discuss what is the IPv4 work need to be done and w= hen we find it out we may have more clear idea regarding how to move it for= ward.

Thanks,
Dapeng Liu

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM Carlos = Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc= 3m.es> wrote:
Hi,

The charter and the AD are clear on this. Our main deliverable (and
only standards track document) in the current charter is IPv6-only, so
let's keep it like that.

This does not mean that the group cannot discuss about IPv4 issues and
raise the need for such a kind of work (if that is the case). If there
is strong support behind considering IPv4, the IESG might allow us to
work on that as well.=C2=A0Besides, it doesn't seem at this time that significant changes would need to be considered to support IPv4.

But the key message is to focus on our IPv6-only main deliverable for
the time being.

Thanks,

Carlos & Russ

On Thu, 2016-11-17 at 10:48 +0900, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
> Le 17/11/2016 =C3=A0 10:20, Michael Richardson a =C3=A9crit :
> >
> > Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:
> > > IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 > > > encoding
> > > for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in th= is
> > > document is very efficient since it has so much in common wi= th
> > > the
> > > IPv6 encoding. Creating a separate document solves no proble= ms,
> > > it
> > > only creates more work.
> >
> > And, I hear terrible things from BobM about how the automotive > > industry intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems f= or
> > decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just fine,<= br class=3D"gmail_msg"> > > and
> > it's all greenfield. Given the total greenfield usage with de= vices
> > not yet built, I'm inclined to given them a /24 of class E sp= ace
> > for
> > play in if they insist on being so stupid)
>
> :-) "stupid"?=C2=A0=C2=A0They have their own constraints abo= ut this IPv4.=C2=A0=C2=A0And
> these constraints dont come from them, but from device manufacturers,<= br class=3D"gmail_msg"> > operators, software houses...
>
> > So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent=
> > that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert abou= t
> > any attempts to communicate inappropriately.
>
> At this point I think it would make sense to write a separate
> IPv4-over-802-11-OCB document.=C2=A0=C2=A0There is interest in that. >
> I would simply avoid to go against the Charter (which says IPv6
> only).
>
> Alex
>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________ its mailing list<= br class=3D"gmail_msg"> > > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/its
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> its mailing list
> = its@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/its

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@i= etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i= ts
--001a113e37883539c80541816cfe-- From nobody Thu Nov 17 08:11:52 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE5B129543 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:11:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tDnEl5xghFX9 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:11:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x230.google.com (mail-pg0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F42112940C for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:11:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x230.google.com with SMTP id p66so92960611pga.2 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:11:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date:organization :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fcmITs0JBkbsM1TooMpBJUt6LIuZ5sNA4G+qC2K/I84=; b=Cc4UTwhWSleqmFPsCqdQ8gPljWlqcBz9B1f4Dr+VY2o0z96wqTqdo2b08LwunBG8ro CO5v/mnKgPGxg55dMqFt1ZPaLzmxZRs7mQLJHuI5Vmw17PCQLco3pbI9F53lWQkBEK81 jJd5Fk2ohz6zGq62dSJMy2KzFT9lI+kVYj4nRaTthZo2BUVvVtb4SC2qrFlPx4wHFOIm /lK8eNTv8vvtRCjWNsxxiLxEdmwQZNnBGwaReZaCZ/TnUcwv+k8ZxDAd2TQJdVaN45xb uiKPvuiorx+zdhhRHcOUPp25VCTUPjUjSjw8Up0ynIeucrRjNFolu7Y03okjUydyjLky Qe/Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fcmITs0JBkbsM1TooMpBJUt6LIuZ5sNA4G+qC2K/I84=; b=XjRD50W+nArmdEzQA8D2JY3ACkE63PS0KM1LzPPnI7vddqTfH4i1Z8y7ZS2tZjzLWU q5RaCjz4yZVixI4rOFGN4wWC2BPv7N5mw8qp6bvD0sLiBpsSGVMLgAhBRtJ7XyDeRU+m o+st8Sw+PScIVL1LsgHp5Djy/MqRcEFUsjXlSJVZhwPWaOWTJt6QbQcjhCTZX/XO2W4T HIbhmOfHK427UQn7q68WRhUjDTWXtlbSAixnT+/8xpR+lIdJ0ZHJN2nzv0AiEgcBQPpT 7yCK+XdSuluczBl7Y2Uz2ykFMshjZdfUON00HFasANKWVsQHQq/Cv9orqTnv1BFuxJZm moCw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvcRz5zCaNEGi6kEjdUem+Lkd6NwOsPWkB9OgC2czEtPudK01rCgJemz9wumc4ddyqeC X-Received: by 10.99.196.70 with SMTP id m6mr9471822pgg.118.1479399107197; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:11:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c03700144752b0e8c590aeac4.hotel-wired.v6.meeting.ietf.org ([2001:67c:370:144:752b:e8c:590a:eac4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u1sm9068728pfb.96.2016.11.17.08.11.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:11:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1479399101.4385.16.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano To: its@ietf.org Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 17:11:41 +0100 Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.2-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: Russ Housley Subject: [its] Draft minutes of IPWAVE@IETF97 available X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:11:50 -0000 Hi, We've just posted the minutes: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-ipwave-01.txt Please send corrections/comments by Friday, Nov. 25th. Thanks a lot to Barry and Jong-Hyouk for taking the minutes! Cheers, Carlos & Russ From nobody Thu Nov 17 17:29:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1B512985B for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 17:29:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FjK3oyDHEfbs for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 17:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [50.253.254.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A598129858 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 17:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45BB76246D; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:29:18 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id YO-OOxkleS6i; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:29:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from lx120e.htt-consult.com (dhcp-8dd3.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.141.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 000146246E; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:29:09 -0500 (EST) To: Michael Richardson , Tony Li References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: <7e45aedf-20a9-f6e1-5e49-4345e8a86668@htt-consult.com> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 10:29:04 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: Russ Housley , its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 01:29:22 -0000 Michael, On 11/17/2016 10:20 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > Tony Li wrote: > > IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 encoding for > > 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this document is > > very efficient since it has so much in common with the IPv6 > > encoding. Creating a separate document solves no problems, it only > > creates more work. > > And, I hear terrible things from BobM about how the automotive industry > intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems for decades to come. > (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just fine, and it's all greenfield. > Given the total greenfield usage with devices not yet built, I'm inclined to > given them a /24 of class E space for play in if they insist on being so stupid) > > So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent that it > will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about any attempts to > communicate inappropriately. Internal vehicle communications which MUST NOT be accessable outside the vehicle is vastly different from WAN communications needs. In fact, IPv6 along with IPv4 on the Infotainment network is a common thread. Only a few devices will be accessable via the outside world. Various segmentation mindsets will isolate the networks that control the car from the rest of the world. In IPWAVE you have to look at the size of the 'visable' network. Given the channel allocation, how many vehicles on a congested transportation area see each other. Granted, the IEEE 1609 approach to this is NO IP, but direct WAVE broadcast messaging. Still, at any time these many vehicles could be using IP. Scale is important. Again, in your garage, would there be a 802.11OCB radio on your AP for your car to use that? This is not hard for an EE to do, but still, the radio does one channel. Join into the fun 802.11 discussions on this subject. In My Highly Biased Opinion, in your garage, the communication path will be through the regular 802.11 radio on the Infotainment system. The DSRC module could tunnel through the virtual machine that controls that radio. Yes, the car will remain a vary complex machine. Bob From nobody Thu Nov 17 17:31:46 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21A4312985B for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 17:31:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r8Ras1muAoiA for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 17:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [50.253.254.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D823129429 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 17:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC2062475; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:31:42 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id rEty6yWcKPeP; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:31:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from lx120e.htt-consult.com (dhcp-8dd3.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.141.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2F32062474; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:31:32 -0500 (EST) To: Tony Li , cjbc@it.uc3m.es References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> <6e6a4902-b33e-29a2-ebcd-352cc3145679@gmail.com> <1479378917.4385.0.camel@it.uc3m.es> <4D3C9C14-3B44-4A67-A4F4-33E540E96705@tony.li> From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: <0fdde586-9eb7-c0d1-d526-6f1885cd9967@htt-consult.com> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 10:31:27 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4D3C9C14-3B44-4A67-A4F4-33E540E96705@tony.li> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 01:31:45 -0000 I may be able to find a few bodies that are interested in this. Will post to the list on this if I can get any to come out in the open. Bob On 11/18/2016 12:41 AM, Tony Li wrote: > Ok, ok, I can take a hint. Subtle it was… ;-) > > Standing offer: if anyone would like to collaborate on IPv4, please contact me. > > Ciao, > Tony > > >> On Nov 17, 2016, at 2:35 AM, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> The charter and the AD are clear on this. Our main deliverable (and >> only standards track document) in the current charter is IPv6-only, so >> let's keep it like that. >> >> This does not mean that the group cannot discuss about IPv4 issues and >> raise the need for such a kind of work (if that is the case). If there >> is strong support behind considering IPv4, the IESG might allow us to >> work on that as well. Besides, it doesn't seem at this time that >> significant changes would need to be considered to support IPv4. >> >> But the key message is to focus on our IPv6-only main deliverable for >> the time being. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Carlos & Russ >> >> On Thu, 2016-11-17 at 10:48 +0900, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: >>> Le 17/11/2016 à 10:20, Michael Richardson a écrit : >>>> Tony Li wrote: >>>>> IPv4 is pretty important to the Internet. Still. The IPv4 >>>>> encoding >>>>> for 802.11p needs to be documented somewhere. Doing so in this >>>>> document is very efficient since it has so much in common with >>>>> the >>>>> IPv6 encoding. Creating a separate document solves no problems, >>>>> it >>>>> only creates more work. >>>> And, I hear terrible things from BobM about how the automotive >>>> industry intends to use IPv4 space for it's control systems for >>>> decades to come. (For a purpose that v6-LL space work just fine, >>>> and >>>> it's all greenfield. Given the total greenfield usage with devices >>>> not yet built, I'm inclined to given them a /24 of class E space >>>> for >>>> play in if they insist on being so stupid) >>> :-) "stupid"? They have their own constraints about this IPv4. And >>> these constraints dont come from them, but from device manufacturers, >>> operators, software houses... >>> >>>> So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent >>>> that it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about >>>> any attempts to communicate inappropriately. >>> At this point I think it would make sense to write a separate >>> IPv4-over-802-11-OCB document. There is interest in that. >>> >>> I would simply avoid to go against the Charter (which says IPv6 >>> only). >>> >>> Alex >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Thu Nov 17 20:03:56 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6BB5129417 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:03:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U7Reh_LMwEMP for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-11-208.mail.sina.com.cn (mail228-170.sinamail.sina.com.cn [60.28.228.170]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E6B841293D6 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.sinamail.sina.com.cn)([172.16.201.34]) by sina.com with SMTP 18 Nov 2016 12:03:47 +0800 (CST) X-Sender: langziwumingzhimi@sina.com X-SMAIL-MID: 41353160031388 Received: by webmail.sinamail.sina.com.cn (Postfix, from userid 496) id CAF09C600CE; Fri, 18 Nov 2016 12:03:46 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 12:03:46 +0800 Received: from langziwumingzhimi@sina.com([172.16.228.17]) by m0.mail.sina.com.cn via HTTP; Fri, 18 Nov 2016 12:03:46 +0800 (CST) From: To: "cjbc" , "its" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MessageID: 582e7da21fb55832 X-Originating-IP: [172.16.201.34] X-Mailer: Sina WebMail 4.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-sinamail_alt_333e1b3b02f0a808213913f41d1903ad" Message-Id: <20161118040346.CAF09C600CE@webmail.sinamail.sina.com.cn> Archived-At: Cc: Russ Housley Subject: [its] =?gbk?q?=BB=D8=B8=B4=A3=BA_Draft_minutes_of_IPWAVE=40IETF97?= =?gbk?q?_available?= X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: langziwumingzhimi@sina.com List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 04:03:55 -0000 --=-sinamail_alt_333e1b3b02f0a808213913f41d1903ad Content-Type: text/plain; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline PGRpdj5IaSw8L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pkp1c3QgbWlub3IgY29tbWVudC4gTXkgbmFtZSBpcyBNaW5wZW5n IFFpLiBTbyBJJ20gYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSBpZiBpdCBjb3VsZCBiZSBjaGFuZ2VkIGZyb20gSUogdG8g TVEgaW4gdGhlIG1lZXRpbmcgbWludXRlcy48L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2PkJScyw8 L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pk1pbnBlbmc8L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGlkPSJvcmlnYm9keSI+ PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZDogI2YyZjJmMjsiPi0tLS0tIOWOn+Wni+mCruS7tiAtLS0t LTxicj7lj5Hku7bkurrvvJpDYXJsb3MgSmVzw7pzIEJlcm5hcmRvcyBDYW5vICZsdDtjamJjQGl0 LnVjM20uZXMmZ3Q7PGJyPuaUtuS7tuS6uu+8mml0c0BpZXRmLm9yZzxicj7mioTpgIHkurrvvJpS dXNzIEhvdXNsZXkgJmx0O2hvdXNsZXlAdmlnaWxzZWMuY29tJmd0Ozxicj7kuLvpopjvvJpbaXRz XSBEcmFmdCBtaW51dGVzIG9mIElQV0FWRUBJRVRGOTcgYXZhaWxhYmxlPGJyPuaXpeacn++8mjIw MTblubQxMeaciDE45pelIDAw54K5MTHliIY8YnI+PC9kaXY+PGJyPjxicj5IaSw8YnI+V2UndmUg anVzdCBwb3N0ZWQgdGhlIG1pbnV0ZXM6PGJyPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3Byb2NlZWRp bmdzLzk3L21pbnV0ZXMvbWludXRlcy05Ny1pcHdhdmUtMDEudHh0PGJyPlBsZWFzZSBzZW5kIGNv cnJlY3Rpb25zL2NvbW1lbnRzIGJ5IEZyaWRheSwgTm92LiAyNXRoLjxicj5UaGFua3MgYSBsb3Qg dG8gQmFycnkgYW5kIEpvbmctSHlvdWsgZm9yIHRha2luZyB0aGUgbWludXRlcyE8YnI+Q2hlZXJz LDxicj5DYXJsb3MgJmFtcDsgUnVzczxicj5fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxicj5pdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PGJyPml0c0BpZXRmLm9yZzxicj5o dHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2l0czxicj48L2Rpdj4= --=-sinamail_alt_333e1b3b02f0a808213913f41d1903ad-- From nobody Sun Nov 20 00:27:29 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7D8B129597 for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 00:27:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vlr-Ft75kcm0 for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 00:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5233512958C for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 00:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (unknown [211.246.68.147]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF3B81F939; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 08:27:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 172283406; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:39:44 +0900 (KST) From: Michael Richardson To: its@ietf.org In-reply-to: <7e45aedf-20a9-f6e1-5e49-4345e8a86668@htt-consult.com> References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> <7e45aedf-20a9-f6e1-5e49-4345e8a86668@htt-consult.com> Comments: In-reply-to Robert Moskowitz message dated "Fri, 18 Nov 2016 10:29:04 +0900." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:39:44 +0900 Message-ID: <8049.1479623984@dooku.sandelman.ca> Archived-At: Cc: Robert Moskowitz Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 08:27:17 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Robert Moskowitz wrote: >> So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent that >> it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about any >> attempts to communicate inappropriately. > Internal vehicle communications which MUST NOT be accessable outside > the vehicle is vastly different from WAN communications needs. In > fact, IPv6 along with IPv4 on the Infotainment network is a common > thread. Only a few devices will be accessable via the outside world. > Various segmentation mindsets will isolate the networks that control > the car from the rest of the world. yes, I realize that the internal vehicle communications are intended to be firewalled off, but there won't be airgap firewalls, and there might be ways (i.e. bugs) that could cause leakage: we should, in ipwave, perhaps have default firewalls (belt-and-suspenders) and alerts for what will become well known IPv4 addresses. Again, I think we should ask if a class E allocation could be done, or if automative would like to find an RIR assigned /24 for this use. > Again, in your garage, would there be a 802.11OCB radio on your AP for > your car to use that? This is not hard for an EE to do, but still, the > radio does one channel. Join into the fun 802.11 discussions on this > subject. In My Highly Biased Opinion, in your garage, the > communication path will be through the regular 802.11 radio on the > Infotainment system. The DSRC module could tunnel through the virtual > machine that controls that radio. If the 802.11OCB chipset between cheap, they will be everywhere, and they will get turned on, intentionally or not. We don't know, and we should both enable innovation here, and prepare for the possible negative affects. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYMUUvAAoJEJVM4Vb9/EKQGakIAKL/onbk64bjDlwa82Hwuofl jkBipQOtpA9RhuWDNtYgIBE5PeS9jd8xTs7SH5cCrUqqzNkuhHOLZACGc3Jrd3de JswvL9+1Egpw4Ojvh2AidWoJ683tCLDPC3BnguABd/a1SF8ZyaqvZ53IeLGw/RTY USadtFzv8b5jaaYKP4xQLbByFasseVnbYqoUAE4AKbj10cY9mcZp5EDeP3TQEG4L 1wYK4YuAqxu2imz7e4SNqXgY9OUl0+NikszH80OzzLqCItQGdd2Rje/ikfn5E27W KB136dp4Ghd+y2ME+htyeuEGPU6knDZO01XagkutjX70CIhDVlKXdsCL1z3vJv0= =C0VD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Nov 24 09:09:31 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C46129698 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:09:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ptVtrWneU6jw for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4375B1295F2 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id g23so121052261wme.1 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:09:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date:in-reply-to:references :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9kRkopVMSMX9bcXinGpt11w6IsaGAc27Yn0c7MV1alE=; b=YQd240QMPPZ5eufrUtsuRia8Dy6J03Z57IVxo5FVBL0NFXgwTbQoMn9iHVaVE3JV5K v9Gs7vzwR7g/uYJBIfOCBfhDXyzxDygtLsRfD2VwF5XrNV7Zy7out4xLiieedhfhkz4n aC51OX+9QhnellUM9AmswlDAKmnc3MR21RBMkSEvc52nAgpxAj+ihTmyNVTnOpn4L30c FLIwFHcUIcK0P4jfDe+P/LPpBRgg+x7+84U51+l4mMeQXSyKwFlHUwF41vPvpIoBrZxa 6joeFxazzAnsU1fM0k8nI4k0gn/vtHfMxgeH40+ZIamqLQcwnsnpxriK32HOPl2sgcvI sHnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date :in-reply-to:references:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=9kRkopVMSMX9bcXinGpt11w6IsaGAc27Yn0c7MV1alE=; b=E8DWriiP71FOV2dTC/l7whvgMAs0EaE3QWOzVbHHGYVFcVPM0E1ejoOoGL2YcDorvd ebvNdhJdeMCjg5dlcnVtnvicxi7Sxw1ocQBM0+/M8E1dnmOovUhLmPoAQfX+49BemkO5 OUsUX4/4pkWu87caChr6G2jJhACHtBnNVUP2lbFHhretOtHUN0zFgQkvpA1QuDKNQ7lF JA2Y7bIgLstnb9SNuBXBpBhzesWPVOZD1IJfScb4VOWnnKrUqeJIQDa6GPiWNwjJJefv OrocCBxAW9DmZOzTCTKATVIma3uQRnDWvbztCzxxeIo5YjfZEj9qwjrw1v1CZafA2nzX lP3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC01M+9ROvbirX0dxNWGTSjvhS2ZWiE08zH8WFvEKidvdmTfoNw5X2NS6/xMmF2s8LwDZ X-Received: by 10.28.13.144 with SMTP id 138mr3252052wmn.120.1480007364747; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:09:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:720:410:1010:36e6:d7ff:fe6a:7354? ([2001:720:410:1010:36e6:d7ff:fe6a:7354]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 81sm9179473wmw.7.2016.11.24.09.09.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:09:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1480007363.3803.35.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano To: langziwumingzhimi@sina.com, its Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 18:09:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20161118040346.CAF09C600CE@webmail.sinamail.sina.com.cn> References: <20161118040346.CAF09C600CE@webmail.sinamail.sina.com.cn> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.2-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: Russ Housley Subject: Re: [its] =?utf-8?b?5Zue5aSN77yaIERyYWZ0IG1pbnV0ZXMgb2YgSVBXQVZFQElF?= =?utf-8?q?TF97_available?= X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 17:09:29 -0000 Dear Minpeng, I've just fixed it. Sorry for the belated reply. Thanks, Carlos On Fri, 2016-11-18 at 12:03 +0800, langziwumingzhimi@sina.com wrote: > Hi, > Just minor comment. My name is Minpeng Qi. So I'm appreciate if it > could be changed from IJ to MQ in the meeting minutes. > > BRs, > Minpeng > > ----- 原始邮件 ----- > å‘件人：Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano > 收件人：its@ietf.org > 抄é€äººï¼šRuss Housley > 主题：[its] Draft minutes of IPWAVE@IETF97 available > 日期：2016å¹´11月18æ—¥ 00点11分 > > > Hi, > We've just posted the minutes: > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-ipwave-01.txt > Please send corrections/comments by Friday, Nov. 25th. > Thanks a lot to Barry and Jong-Hyouk for taking the minutes! > Cheers, > Carlos & Russ > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Thu Nov 24 14:36:34 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7A312957F for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 14:36:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D0pijy6FsdhU for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 14:36:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [50.253.254.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A27C12948F for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 14:36:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F5962285; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 17:36:29 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id ZS04baM0S2I6; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 17:36:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from lx120e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C0FF56227F; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 17:36:12 -0500 (EST) To: Michael Richardson , its@ietf.org References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> <7e45aedf-20a9-f6e1-5e49-4345e8a86668@htt-consult.com> <8049.1479623984@dooku.sandelman.ca> From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 17:36:08 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8049.1479623984@dooku.sandelman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 22:36:33 -0000 On 11/20/2016 01:39 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > Robert Moskowitz wrote: > >> So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the extent that > >> it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about any > >> attempts to communicate inappropriately. > > > Internal vehicle communications which MUST NOT be accessable outside > > the vehicle is vastly different from WAN communications needs. In > > fact, IPv6 along with IPv4 on the Infotainment network is a common > > thread. Only a few devices will be accessable via the outside world. > > Various segmentation mindsets will isolate the networks that control > > the car from the rest of the world. > > yes, I realize that the internal vehicle communications are intended to be > firewalled off, but there won't be airgap firewalls, and there might be ways > (i.e. bugs) that could cause leakage: we should, in ipwave, perhaps have > default firewalls (belt-and-suspenders) and alerts for what will become well > known IPv4 addresses. Again, I think we should ask if a class E allocation > could be done, or if automative would like to find an RIR assigned /24 for > this use. > > > Again, in your garage, would there be a 802.11OCB radio on your AP for > > your car to use that? This is not hard for an EE to do, but still, the > > radio does one channel. Join into the fun 802.11 discussions on this > > subject. In My Highly Biased Opinion, in your garage, the > > communication path will be through the regular 802.11 radio on the > > Infotainment system. The DSRC module could tunnel through the virtual > > machine that controls that radio. > > If the 802.11OCB chipset between cheap, they will be everywhere, and they > will get turned on, intentionally or not. We don't know, and we should both > enable innovation here, and prepare for the possible negative affects. It does not take much of a firmware change to make an 802.11a radio work on the 802.11OCB bands. The rest is all software. The early domos I saw were just Atheros 11a radios reprogrammed. I am sure the code for Linux is out there somewhere. The Nexus phone Honda used at their demo at ITS World in Detroit a couple years back was a standard Qualcomm radio with Qualcomm provided firmware. So have at it! Bob From nobody Fri Nov 25 07:33:12 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD9B9129613 for ; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 07:33:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.353 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.353 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rhnhOQ0xBlDd for ; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 07:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.8]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6238512A2E7 for ; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 07:21:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.4) with ESMTP id uAPFLL9U007255 for ; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 16:21:21 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 9EDB8208EB5 for ; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 16:21:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94EFE208EDC for ; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 16:21:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id uAPFLL5a020149 for ; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 16:21:21 +0100 To: its@ietf.org References: <12861.1479345654@dooku.sandelman.ca> <7e45aedf-20a9-f6e1-5e49-4345e8a86668@htt-consult.com> <8049.1479623984@dooku.sandelman.ca> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <1437d7ba-c3c9-dd28-7fd7-0c705829a8ed@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2016 16:21:21 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [its] Confirming direction set at IETF 97 IPWAVE Session - open source for 802.11-OCB X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2016 15:33:12 -0000 Le 24/11/2016 à 23:36, Robert Moskowitz a écrit : > > > On 11/20/2016 01:39 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: >> Robert Moskowitz wrote: >>>> So, ipwave will need to take this use into account, to the >> extent that >>>> it will need to block any leaks that develop, and alert about >>>> any attempts to communicate inappropriately. >> >>> Internal vehicle communications which MUST NOT be accessable >> outside >>> the vehicle is vastly different from WAN communications needs. >>> In fact, IPv6 along with IPv4 on the Infotainment network is a >>> common thread. Only a few devices will be accessable via the >>> outside >> world. >>> Various segmentation mindsets will isolate the networks that >> control >>> the car from the rest of the world. >> >> yes, I realize that the internal vehicle communications are >> intended to be firewalled off, but there won't be airgap firewalls, >> and there might be ways (i.e. bugs) that could cause leakage: we >> should, in ipwave, perhaps have default firewalls >> (belt-and-suspenders) and alerts for what will become well known >> IPv4 addresses. Again, I think we should ask if a class E >> allocation could be done, or if automative would like to find an >> RIR assigned /24 for this use. >> >>> Again, in your garage, would there be a 802.11OCB radio on your >> AP for >>> your car to use that? This is not hard for an EE to do, but >> still, the >>> radio does one channel. Join into the fun 802.11 discussions >> on this >>> subject. In My Highly Biased Opinion, in your garage, the >>> communication path will be through the regular 802.11 radio on >>> the Infotainment system. The DSRC module could tunnel through >>> the >> virtual >>> machine that controls that radio. >> >> If the 802.11OCB chipset between cheap, they will be everywhere, >> and they will get turned on, intentionally or not. We don't know, >> and we should both enable innovation here, and prepare for the >> possible negative affects. > > It does not take much of a firmware change to make an 802.11a radio > work on the 802.11OCB bands. The rest is all software. The early > domos I saw were just Atheros 11a radios reprogrammed. I am sure the > code for Linux is out there somewhere. There is software available as open source for 802.11 OCB mode for an older linux kernel and for the 'iw' command at https://github.com/CTU-IIG/802.11p-linux and https://gist.github.com/lisovy/80dde5a792e774a706a9 There are more pointers to hardware and open drivers for other OSs like BSD at https://github.com/alexvoronov/geonetworking/blob/master/HARDWARE.md However, few of these functionalities are integrated in the mainline kernel and iw distribution. Alex > The Nexus phone Honda used at their demo at ITS World in Detroit a > couple years back was a standard Qualcomm radio with Qualcomm > provided firmware. > > So have at it! > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Wed Nov 30 10:15:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietf.org Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADF8B1298D2; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:15:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148052970170.9607.12043916621198119260.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:15:01 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: [its] I-D Action: draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:15:02 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments of the IETF. Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (OCB) Authors : Alexandre Petrescu Nabil Benamar Jérôme Härri Christian Huitema Jong-Hyouk Lee Thierry Ernst Tony Li Filename : draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06.txt Pages : 40 Date : 2016-11-30 Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks run outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the recommended Maximum Transmission Unit size, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11 OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11 OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. In addition, the document attempts to list what is different in 802.11 OCB (802.11p) compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n layers, layers over which IPv6 protocols operates without issues. Most notably, the operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) has impact on IPv6 handover behaviour and on IPv6 security. An example of an IPv6 packet captured while transmitted over an IEEE 802.11 OCB link (802.11p) is given. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Nov 30 10:19:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8995129957 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:19:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=1.2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.972] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s1QuGCnVfCnY for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:19:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.8]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EFBA129951 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.4) with ESMTP id uAUIIuM3030945 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 19:18:56 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id D190620D4D4 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 19:18:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83EB20D4CA for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 19:18:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from [132.166.84.25] ([132.166.84.25]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id uAUIIuvJ022617 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 19:18:56 +0100 References: <148052970170.9607.12043916621198119260.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "its@ietf.org" From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 19:18:55 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <148052970170.9607.12043916621198119260.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [its] I-D Action: draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:19:04 -0000 Hi, I just submitted this new version of this draft which addresses all issues presented in Seoul: o Removed IPv4 text. o Added text about isues with multicast over 802.11 and OCB mode. o Shortened the subnet structure section, by referring to an existing RFC. o Removed the appendix about distribution of certificates. o Added text about tradeoff of too frequent RAs, handover performance and risks of packet loss. o Removed discussion about other MTU possibilities, kept only the 1500 bytes MTU. o Keep both header "802.11 Data" and header "802.11 QoS Data". o Referred to default-iids recommendation of generating stable IIDs. Alex Le 30/11/2016 à 19:15, internet-drafts@ietf.org a écrit : > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments of the IETF. > > Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (OCB) > Authors : Alexandre Petrescu > Nabil Benamar > Jérôme Härri > Christian Huitema > Jong-Hyouk Lee > Thierry Ernst > Tony Li > Filename : draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06.txt > Pages : 40 > Date : 2016-11-30 > > Abstract: > In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks run outside > the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is > a need to define a few parameters such as the recommended Maximum > Transmission Unit size, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, > the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these > parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11 OCB networks; it portrays the > layering of IPv6 on 802.11 OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and > Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. > > In addition, the document attempts to list what is different in > 802.11 OCB (802.11p) compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n > layers, layers over which IPv6 protocols operates without issues. > Most notably, the operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) has > impact on IPv6 handover behaviour and on IPv6 security. > > An example of an IPv6 packet captured while transmitted over an IEEE > 802.11 OCB link (802.11p) is given. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > From nobody Wed Nov 30 10:49:20 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7718129951 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:49:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9OivBTinQzBe for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:49:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FA6E1298C3 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:49:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240B2300199 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 13:39:00 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id WIW6hBbo1Ody for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 13:38:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (pool-108-45-101-150.washdc.fios.verizon.net [108.45.101.150]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 38CF9300092; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 13:38:58 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 13:44:18 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0D7DA636-218A-466A-B167-ED676ABC1FC5@vigilsec.com> References: <148052970170.9607.12043916621198119260.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: "its@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [its] I-D Action: draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: ITS at IETF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:49:20 -0000 I have seen no one speak against this becoming the starting point for = the IPWAVE WG standards-track document. Please repost this as draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00.txt Russ On Nov 30, 2016, at 1:18 PM, Alexandre Petrescu = wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I just submitted this new version of this draft which addresses all = issues presented in Seoul: >=20 > o Removed IPv4 text. > o Added text about isues with multicast over 802.11 and OCB mode. > o Shortened the subnet structure section, by referring to an > existing RFC. > o Removed the appendix about distribution of certificates. > o Added text about tradeoff of too frequent RAs, handover > performance and risks of packet loss. > o Removed discussion about other MTU possibilities, kept only the > 1500 bytes MTU. > o Keep both header "802.11 Data" and header "802.11 QoS Data". > o Referred to default-iids recommendation of generating stable IIDs. >=20 > Alex >=20 >=20 >=20 > Le 30/11/2016 =E0 19:15, internet-drafts@ietf.org a =E9crit : >>=20 >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >> This draft is a work item of the IP Wireless Access in Vehicular = Environments of the IETF. >>=20 >> Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE = 802.11 Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (OCB) >> Authors : Alexandre Petrescu >> Nabil Benamar >> J=E9r=F4me H=E4rri >> Christian Huitema >> Jong-Hyouk Lee >> Thierry Ernst >> Tony Li >> Filename : draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06.txt >> Pages : 40 >> Date : 2016-11-30 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks run = outside >> the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there = is >> a need to define a few parameters such as the recommended Maximum >> Transmission Unit size, the header format preceding the IPv6 = header, >> the Type value within it, and others. This document describes = these >> parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11 OCB networks; it portrays the >> layering of IPv6 on 802.11 OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and >> Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >>=20 >> In addition, the document attempts to list what is different in >> 802.11 OCB (802.11p) compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n >> layers, layers over which IPv6 protocols operates without issues. >> Most notably, the operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) has >> impact on IPv6 handover behaviour and on IPv6 security. >>=20 >> An example of an IPv6 packet captured while transmitted over an = IEEE >> 802.11 OCB link (802.11p) is given. >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p/ >>=20 >> There's also a htmlized version available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06 >>=20 >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p-06 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>=20 >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> I-D-Announce mailing list >> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Wed Nov 30 21:36:13 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC834129567; Wed, 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