From jefsey@jefsey.com Thu Jan 5 04:54:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B4D021F8824 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 04:54:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.045 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.045 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.046, BAYES_50=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QxZUImZEOcoz for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 04:54:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from montage2.altserver.com (montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B3B021F8823 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2012 04:54:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from 194.206-227-89.dsl.completel.net ([89.227.206.194]:63223 helo=jfcmsc.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rimpx-0007UM-Kh; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 04:54:30 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20120105120240.0bc1ce00@jefsey.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:50:36 +0100 To: idn-vip-integrated-issues@icann.org From: JFC Morfin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: iucg@ietf.org Subject: [iucg] IUCG initial comment X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:54:33 -0000 Gentlemen, the IUCG accompanies the iucg@ietf.org non-WG mailing list. Its purpose is to permit Internet, and IETF users to contribute to the architecture, technology and practice of their own multitechnology Integrated and Intelligent Use (IUse) of the whole digital ecosystem. In the considered area it therefore explores the architectural support of polynymy (strict synonymy in a different context) and orthotypography (typographical syntax of a language) that IDNA2008 does not consider but locates in the user part of the presentation layer support (RFC 5895). We plan having a debate on the VIP report in the coming weeks and meet the Jan 31, 2012 deadline. We could not engage into such a debate prior to the publication of the report (however some of our members participated to the WG/VIP discussion) because we have difficulties in understanding how it fits in our targets. Our priority is: how to implement IDNA2008 (i.e. the RFC set from RFC 5890 to RFC 5895) on the user side (what we called the IDNA2010 project) and to organize its mutual interadministration (what we called the IDNA2012 project). 1. The ICANN charter of the work (http://www.icann.org/en/topics/new-gtlds/idn-variant-tlds-delegation-20apr11-en.pdf): - does not quote IDNA as architecture, only as an area of expertise for DNS experts. - does not refer to IDNA2008 or to any other RFC. The only RFC which is quoted (in a note) is the RFC 3743 to define a possible meaning of the key word "variant". We therefore had to wait for the completion of the http://www.icann.org/en/topics/new-gtlds/idn-vip-integrated-issues-23dec11-en.pdf draft to review a complete and homogeneous set of positions. 2. When we first discovered that document we decided to work out first: - an IUWW version (i.e. a working wiki). This is underway. - the missing executive summary which is necessary for a constructive debate over a document of 108 pages plus substantial annexes. - a general "Internet+" framework integrating the IAB/IETF end to end network now finalized capacities within the fringe to fringe Intelligent Use solutions we need and expect. This post-IDNA2008 "Internet+" people centric (cf. WSIS [World Summit on Information Society] unanimous resolution) framework has to be in continuity with the RFC 1287, RFC 1958 and RFC 3439, respecting the RFC 3935, attentive to RFC 3869, following the ICANN-ICP-3 requirements, in phase with the responses we obtained from the IESG and IAB and able to positively take advantage from the VIP work, the ICANN Affirmation of Commitment with the US Government (and hopefully all the other similar affirmation jointly signed with GAC Members) as well as other contributions received or expected from other multilinguistics (as the discipline of the linguistic coexistence) and digital architecture oriented agoras. Regards. JFC Morfin Facilitator, iucg@ietf.org From jefsey@jefsey.com Thu Jan 26 11:02:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52DFC21F8615 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:02:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.814 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.814 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.793, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=0.992, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rhVRa7BU-Kjg for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:02:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from montage2.altserver.com (montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7134821F85D1 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:02:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from 199.126-227-89.dsl.completel.net ([89.227.126.199]:58618 helo=jfcmsc.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RqUaj-0007EP-2i; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:02:37 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20120125235931.0ee954f0@jefsey.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 00:00:47 +0100 To: iucg@ietf.org,iutf@iutf.org From: JFC Morfin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: [iucg] I-D Action: draft-iucg-internet-plus-05.txt X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:02:39 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Internet+ Architectural Framework Author(s) : Jean-Francois C. Morfin Filename : draft-iucg-internet-plus-05.txt Pages : 34 Date : 2012-01-25 This memo acknowledges the change of scale in network and people centricities within the whole digital ecosystem. It shows how the Internet technology can sustain the resulting network and societal effects in scaling itself from the end to end Internet to a fringe to fringe fully optional and compatible Internet+ which strictly conforms to the Internet architecture and RFCs. It introduces the Internet+ framework and the IUTF to document it. It explores a transition that can be seamlessly immediate and will probably start a complete review and extension of the Internet schemas towards the semiotic Internet (Intersem). A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iucg-internet-plus-05.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iucg-internet-plus-05.txt From jfc@morfin.org Sat Jan 28 11:35:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 448FC21F8566 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:35:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.432 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.432 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.433, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QAgD9hKyKSQk for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from montage2.altserver.com (montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7321921F855F for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from 199.126-227-89.dsl.completel.net ([89.227.126.199]:53626 helo=jfcmsc.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RrE3t-0004M0-HN; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:35:46 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20120121075919.1cd16500@jefsey.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 20:36:55 +0100 To: Gervase Markham , "idna-update@alvestrand.no" From: "J-F C. Morfin" In-Reply-To: <4F19B4A6.5070700@mozilla.org> References: <4F19B4A6.5070700@mozilla.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - morfin.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: iucg@ietf.org, iutf@iutf.org Subject: Re: [iucg] Proposed new Firefox IDN display algorithm X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 19:35:50 -0000 At 19:38 20/01/2012, Gervase Markham wrote: >https://wiki.mozilla.org/IDN_Display_Algorithm >Comments, particularly on the "Possible Issues and Open Questions", >would be very welcome. I will answer this for the records, as you will probably not consider it :-). >If we just display any possible IDN domain label, we open ourselves >up to IDN homograph attacks, who are this "ourselves". It should be the users. >Other Browsers Users do not mind the browser they use and expect to reach the same host with the same entry. Otherwise this is Foxnet. I.E. you say: >I think that this would make us display a superset of the IDN >domains that the other browsers display, in a way which was >consistent across all copies of Firefox (maintaining the certainty >which is a benefit of the current system) and which was pretty safe >from spoofing. Is that not some sort of balkanization if this is imposed on every users? >Should we document our character hard-blacklist as part of this >exercise? Are any characters in it legal in IDNA2008? >Do we want to allow the user to choose between multiple "restriction >levels", or have a hidden pref? There are significant downsides to >allowing this. The browser should be IDNA neutral. What you discuss is a user IDNA layer. You may want to add it to Firefox as an extention/plugin: actually it should be like an OPES subject to a presentation layer standard. The way I read IDNA2008, this OPES is to be deployed as part of the presentation layer interface. The resulting architectural framework the emerging IUTF is to work on is explored at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iucg-internet-plus-05.txt. Please note that this I_D does not document how/where the presentation layer support is to occur. This because IMHO there may be several possible propositions. My working reference is the PLUS approach (Plugged Layers on the User side) that initially adds 2.5 extended network layers on the user systems: 1. extended network applications 2. interapplications 3. exploratory support of the presentation layer at the ML-DNS level, with a multilayered vision of a digital name pile (ASCII, IDNA2008, UTF-8, etc.) with an occurrence per presentation format and CLASS. jfc