From jefsey@jefsey.com Thu Apr 5 03:25:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A5721F86E4 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 03:25:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <8o3tDvAf841j> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char C3 hex): To: ...media.org>,\n Denny Vrande\303\204\302\215i\303\204\207 ; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 03:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m169.montage2.altserver.com (m169.montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8434521F86C1 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 03:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 108.158-227-89.dsl.completel.net ([89.227.158.108]:60665 helo=jfcmsc.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SFjsH-000710-Lp; Thu, 05 Apr 2012 03:25:06 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 12:29:58 +0200 To: "Stracke, Christian" , Discussion list for the Wikidata project. , Denny VrandečiÄ , From: JFC Morfin In-Reply-To: <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B61130A32E@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wi winf.uni-due.de> References: <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B6113096C7@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B611309D2E@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B61130A32E@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-Id: <20120405102513.8434521F86C1@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: iucg@ietf.org Subject: [iucg] Industry, JTC1/ISO, W3C, IUse, Wikimedia - where are we ? X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 10:25:14 -0000 At 17:20 04/04/2012, Stracke, Christian wrote: >Dear all, >I'm sorry bit "jfc" is mixing up different standards and committees >(what is easy): Sorry for the confusion. The problem with ISO and ISO documents is that they are not documented on (i.e. interested in? i.e. interesting for?) Wikipedia. 1. 19788-1, can be found for free at: http://www.sis.se/PageFiles/2140/MLR-utkast%20arbetsmaterial.pdf 2. The Wikidata issue, as I see it, is that we do not start from an architectural framework based on a business plan, charter or TOR. It seems that the current target is to implement a W3C semantic web current-Wikimedia general data-store. This does not consider Wikidata as a major contributor to the future-Wikimedia development. Agreeing on the role Wikidata is to play in the Wikimedia adaptation to the Internet future should be our first point of consensus. Otherwise : 1. Wikidata is of no direct interest to Internet Users, only to Wikipedia contributors; 2. another Wikimedia project is to be considered as a Wikidata back-end. Certainly, at a time, there will be a need for a datamodel. But first we need to locate Wikidata in the Wikimedia strategy as a data-collector and as a data-desseminator, not only as a data-store, in a real world where there are five main conceptual channels : (1) Business World diversity (Search Engines, etc.), (2) JTC1, (3) W3C, (4) emergent IUsers [Intelligent lead users: FLOSS, IUCG], (5) Wikimedia. Possibly we have to consider Big Data, and the border with Big Data as it will emerge. As being on the IUse side, I know that we need a convergence of these channels if we want to attain a good degree of (meta/syllo) data interchange and not multiply costs, complication and lack of progress everywhere (not only in sciences). Wikidata is not only about millions of lonely contributors/authors as Wikipedia is, it also is about * ISO 11179 conformant very large sources contributions * diktyologies (from greek diktyos, network), i.e. dynamically auto-maintained intelligent ontologic spaces. This is a part we have to explore and support with new concepts (such as syllodata: data between metadata), cloud architecture, programming languages. Otherwise Wikimedia will soon be a story of the past, its free commons being copied by many (like http://wikipedia.orange.fr) and distributed and automatically enhanced by powerfull diktyologies with integrated big (scientific, etc.) data servers. jfc From denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de Thu Apr 5 03:45:30 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4602921F86F3 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 03:45:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.361 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.361 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hgmp1J7adJp5 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 03:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2286621F86D8 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 03:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iazz13 with SMTP id z13so1961428iaz.31 for ; Thu, 05 Apr 2012 03:45:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=ErBv6omDNezNE35Zbgi/M7/fNuSmb5gODRWdZkAn1bQ=; b=CpurlRrPCIgJYWb+2uXXsMqwDYujpoTQF9F4O6XqYdiffx5jg/GWn7jYxpFBkJxdTM omR+mnpF7qrmtzkB8WUkg9csuriArZHAhHq2sm/vjFAFcE31DgUTQREPoMEVEC8b6v6D pdK5ro5+zAJOKrfPCDKGH+mLwYRQfl5berLudMaux4GNqOxbRXd0Rt3R+wDEgchjinCe Mq0co7BpAzXOawxLvBh0bzaZn3C0zbaUWqxftXex960cndnbLqWoRt94Qah+OTg70+47 XmC53+hjdKksEgJkman9E4N1aUIlK3/yq4siH9kNAn49e2xy+o+ebj5WUksR1M56gMS7 jlew== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.159.202 with SMTP id xe10mr1255929igb.66.1333622728082; Thu, 05 Apr 2012 03:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.23.35 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 03:45:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4f7d730b.66ead80a.37ec.38f6SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B6113096C7@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B611309D2E@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B61130A32E@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <4f7d730b.66ead80a.37ec.38f6SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 12:45:28 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?B?RGVubnkgVnJhbmRlxI1pxIc=?= To: JFC Morfin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9340601f8c3c604bcec3c12 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmQJFyaEEyvEXPyk9jOWli5ZP2LdHUw+r0t6ECgfqkEV01PtrS9JF0SmQ0dfyeUWA/I3XFC X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 08:33:39 -0700 Cc: "Stracke, Christian" , "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." , iucg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [iucg] Industry, JTC1/ISO, W3C, IUse, Wikimedia - where are we ? X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 10:46:53 -0000 --14dae9340601f8c3c604bcec3c12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear JFC, we do not have a charter, but we have a technical project proposal [1] and a list of fundamental requirements [2]. [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Technical_proposal [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Requirements I am not sure if this addresses your comments, as I am frankly having trouble to follow them. You are frequently using of neologisms and weird terms. Also you seem to be discussing within a conceptual space that is on a different level than we are interested in. In short, we have for Wikidata two pragmatic goals: * Wikidata's first aim is to support the Wikipedias with their language links * Wikidata's second aim is to support the Wikipedias with the infoboxes Out of the support for these tasks, other interesting use cases might and are expected to arise. Until I manage to understand how your comments relate to one of these goals, I will personally take the liberty to ignore your comments. Cheers, Denny 2012/4/5 JFC Morfin > At 17:20 04/04/2012, Stracke, Christian wrote: > >> Dear all, >> I'm sorry bit "jfc" is mixing up different standards and committees (wha= t >> is easy): >> > > Sorry for the confusion. The problem with ISO and ISO documents is that > they are not documented on (i.e. interested in? i.e. interesting for?) > Wikipedia. > > 1. 19788-1, can be found for free at: http://www.sis.se/PageFiles/** > 2140/MLR-utkast%**20arbetsmaterial.pdf > > 2. The Wikidata issue, as I see it, is that we do not start from an > architectural framework based on a business plan, charter or TOR. It seem= s > that the current target is to implement a W3C semantic web > current-Wikimedia general data-store. This does not consider Wikidata as = a > major contributor to the future-Wikimedia development. > > Agreeing on the role Wikidata is to play in the Wikimedia adaptation to > the Internet future should be our first point of consensus. Otherwise : > > 1. Wikidata is of no direct interest to Internet Users, only to Wikipedia > contributors; > 2. another Wikimedia project is to be considered as a Wikidata back-end. > > Certainly, at a time, there will be a need for a datamodel. But first we > need to locate Wikidata in the Wikimedia strategy as a data-collector and > as a data-desseminator, not only as a data-store, in a real world where > there are five main conceptual channels : (1) Business World diversity > (Search Engines, etc.), (2) JTC1, (3) W3C, (4) emergent IUsers [Intellige= nt > lead users: FLOSS, IUCG], (5) Wikimedia. Possibly we have to consider Big > Data, and the border with Big Data as it will emerge. > > As being on the IUse side, I know that we need a convergence of these > channels if we want to attain a good degree of (meta/syllo) data > interchange and not multiply costs, complication and lack of progress > everywhere (not only in sciences). Wikidata is not only about millions of > lonely contributors/authors as Wikipedia is, it also is about > > * ISO 11179 conformant very large sources contributions > * diktyologies (from greek diktyos, network), i.e. dynamically > auto-maintained intelligent ontologic spaces. This is a part we have to > explore and support with new concepts (such as syllodata: data between > metadata), cloud architecture, programming languages. Otherwise Wikimedia > will soon be a story of the past, its free commons being copied by many > (like http://wikipedia.orange.fr) and distributed and automatically > enhanced by powerfull diktyologies with integrated big (scientific, etc.) > data servers. > > jfc > > --=20 Project director Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Eisenacher Stra=C3=9Fe 2 | 10777 Berlin Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur F=C3=B6rderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinn=C3=BCtzig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt f= =C3=BCr K=C3=B6rperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. --14dae9340601f8c3c604bcec3c12 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear JFC,

we do not have a charter, but we have a techni= cal project proposal [1] and a list of fundamental requirements [2].
<= div>

I am not sure if this addresses your = comments, as I am frankly having trouble to follow them. You are frequently= using of neologisms and weird terms. Also you seem to be discussing within= a conceptual space that is on a different level than we are interested in.=

In short, we have for Wikidata two pragmatic goals:
* Wikidata's first aim is to support the Wikipedias with their l= anguage links
* Wikidata's second aim is to support the Wikip= edias with the infoboxes

Out of the support for these tasks, other interesting u= se cases might and are expected to arise.

Until I = manage to understand how your comments relate to one of these goals, I will= personally take the liberty to ignore your comments.

Cheers,
Denny


2012/4/5 JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com>= ;
At 17:20 04/04/2012, Stracke, Christian wrote:
Dear all,
I'm sorry bit "jfc" is mixing up different standards and comm= ittees (what is easy):

Sorry for the confusion. The problem with ISO and ISO documents is that the= y are not documented on (i.e. interested in? i.e. interesting for?) Wikiped= ia.

1. 19788-1, can be found for free at: http://www.sis.se= /PageFiles/2140/MLR-utkast%20arbetsmaterial.pdf

2. The Wikidata issue, as I see it, is that we do not start from an archite= ctural framework based on a business plan, charter or TOR. It seems that th= e current target is to implement a W3C semantic web current-Wikimedia gener= al data-store. This does not consider Wikidata as a major contributor to th= e future-Wikimedia development.

Agreeing on the role Wikidata is to play in the Wikimedia adaptation to the= Internet future should be our first point of consensus. Otherwise :

1. Wikidata is of no direct interest to Internet Users, only to Wikipedia c= ontributors;
2. another Wikimedia project is to be considered as a Wikidata back-end.
Certainly, at a time, there will be a need for a datamodel. But first we ne= ed to locate Wikidata in the Wikimedia strategy as a data-collector and as = a data-desseminator, not only as a data-store, in a real world where there = are five main conceptual channels : (1) Business World diversity (Search En= gines, etc.), (2) JTC1, (3) W3C, (4) emergent IUsers [Intelligent lead user= s: FLOSS, IUCG], (5) Wikimedia. Possibly we have to consider Big Data, and = the border with Big Data as it will emerge.

As being on the IUse side, I know that we need a convergence of these chann= els if we want to attain a good degree of (meta/syllo) data interchange and= not multiply costs, complication and lack of progress everywhere (not only= in sciences). Wikidata is not only about millions of lonely contributors/a= uthors as Wikipedia =C2=A0is, it also is about

* ISO 11179 =C2=A0conformant very large sources contributions
* diktyologies (from greek diktyos, network), i.e. dynamically auto-maintai= ned intelligent ontologic spaces. This is a part we have to explore and sup= port with new concepts (such as syllodata: data between metadata), cloud ar= chitecture, programming languages. Otherwise Wikimedia will soon be a story= of the past, its free commons being copied by many (like http://wikipedia.orange.fr) and= distributed and automatically enhanced by powerfull diktyologies with inte= grated big (scientific, etc.) data servers.
jfc




-- Project director Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Eisenacher Str= a=C3=9Fe 2 | 10777 Berlin

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur F=C3=B6rd= erung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts B= erlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinn=C3=BCtzig anerka= nnt durch das Finanzamt f=C3=BCr K=C3=B6rperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer= = 27/681/51985.

--14dae9340601f8c3c604bcec3c12-- From jefsey@jefsey.com Fri Apr 6 01:57:30 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613F221F860F for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2012 01:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <9pMBnOe49Ix5> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char C4 hex): To: Denny Vrande\304\215i\304\207 ; Fri, 6 Apr 2012 01:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m169.montage2.altserver.com (m169.montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85B8921F860E for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2012 01:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 108.158-227-89.dsl.completel.net ([89.227.158.108]:50453 helo=jfcmsc.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SG4yx-00065P-B9; Fri, 06 Apr 2012 01:57:23 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:02:14 +0200 To: Denny Vrandečić From: JFC Morfin In-Reply-To: References: <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B6113096C7@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B611309D2E@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B61130A32E@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <4f7d730b.66ead80a.37ec.38f6SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-Id: <20120406085729.85B8921F860E@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: "Stracke, Christian" , "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." , iucg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [iucg] Industry, JTC1/ISO, W3C, IUse, Wikimedia - where are we ? X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2012 08:57:30 -0000 At 12:45 05/04/2012, Denny Vrandečić wrote: >In short, we have for Wikidata two pragmatic goals: >* Wikidata's first aim is to support the Wikipedias with their language links >* Wikidata's second aim is to support the Wikipedias with the infoboxes > >Out of the support for these tasks, other interesting use cases >might and are expected to arise. > >Until I manage to understand how your comments relate to one of >these goals, I will personally take the liberty to ignore your comments. Fair enough :-) Your assesments are correct. As I first documented it, our (iucg@ietf.org) target in this area is the Internet+ (smart fringe to fringe Internet) MDRS (metadata registry multilinguistic distributed referential system). The MDRS is to the Internet+ and to the Semiotic Internet (Intersem) that we explore, what the IANA is to the legacy Internet, and what Wikidata might be to Wikimedia. Our "use case" is the Internet+ distributed operations (I documented the IETF Drafts references). The MDRS will most probably be a datawiki or/and a DDDS (the DNS is a DDDS) of some sort. Todays IANA and wikis are humanly fed and read, datawikis will be more and more fed and read by intelligent processes. This intelligence leads to additional opportunities and constraints. Our targets are the same, however you have to have conceptual limits, while by essence I must have none. This is why I tried to poke our possible common interest areas. Your two confirmed documents now gives us your current limits (the more people understand what the "revolution" (as per wikimedia) datawikis are going to be, the more they may expect from them). My own target is to internally review these documents, assess their possible evolution, strive to stay interoperable, and permit users and applications to take a better advantage from your project (wikidata.iucg.org). We will alert you if we fear possible architectural conflicts through our work and tests. This seems to be in line with what Lydia responded today. Best jfc From denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de Tue Apr 10 04:45:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBC121F848C for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 04:45:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.176 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.176 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.100, BAYES_50=0.001, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZCNodqE5SJCW for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 04:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE3F121F8493 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 04:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iazz13 with SMTP id z13so8789602iaz.31 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 04:45:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=2asAu7nEo81k05yhYEHaaKM+gt18aMrs765Zzh/mtWs=; b=fO/2A4U75oOr5j+nJb4683B2GqhqDwxPulSGnaVvMeE5hGADn6qFo+DcLIreFj8CNd irjJA2HXPH7jrtwHqRTztLfMClBSpsdtQaa0dWhBZBmq85P+dtZFlyp4zapHbcq1gAFN pBfDIZij5S8f9C2qlPka61E+YreLxPqIVZ04Beg1XG5nTdYD6iaam/ieWvOET9SSxxxu VtTgOIuYhezuN6sg2ANscVePVXGgHUYm/vUqgbVL7XEVczzHYeAEOqE63XGz2UqNf5FD B2Kcf3v53wSQK5ZwL6tbyxHhoAC/ANkOyQ8X+KPsYFjGHdjU/CBEUlqJw32+TvS68L/3 BvEA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.203.99 with SMTP id kp3mr1952344igc.16.1334058323384; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 04:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.23.35 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 04:45:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4f7eaff9.c165b40a.12cf.fffff023SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B6113096C7@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B611309D2E@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B61130A32E@WIWINF-EXDAG01.wiwinf.uni-due.de> <4f7d730b.66ead80a.37ec.38f6SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> <4f7eaff9.c165b40a.12cf.fffff023SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:45:23 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?B?RGVubnkgVnJhbmRlxI1pxIc=?= To: JFC Morfin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae934078f7997e804bd51a80d X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlTwDJTLOS2dOKn+Vi8ZpucPAOnl+cOVC6Hr51wMsMak5mpcwcYRDsHm6xAYlsGEygTxabu X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:37:03 -0700 Cc: "Stracke, Christian" , "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." , iucg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [iucg] Industry, JTC1/ISO, W3C, IUse, Wikimedia - where are we ? X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 11:45:27 -0000 --14dae934078f7997e804bd51a80d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, JFC. Often those that will change the world tomorrow are those that are not understood today. Cheers, Denny 2012/4/6 JFC Morfin > At 12:45 05/04/2012, Denny Vrande=C4=8Di=C4=87 wrote: > >> In short, we have for Wikidata two pragmatic goals: >> * Wikidata's first aim is to support the Wikipedias with their language >> links >> * Wikidata's second aim is to support the Wikipedias with the infoboxes >> >> Out of the support for these tasks, other interesting use cases might an= d >> are expected to arise. >> >> Until I manage to understand how your comments relate to one of these >> goals, I will personally take the liberty to ignore your comments. >> > > Fair enough :-) > > Your assesments are correct. As I first documented it, our (iucg@ietf.org= ) > target in this area is the Internet+ (smart fringe to fringe Internet) MD= RS > (metadata registry multilinguistic distributed referential system). The > MDRS is to the Internet+ and to the Semiotic Internet (Intersem) that we > explore, what the IANA is to the legacy Internet, and what Wikidata might > be to Wikimedia. > > Our "use case" is the Internet+ distributed operations (I documented the > IETF Drafts references). The MDRS will most probably be a datawiki or/and= a > DDDS (the DNS is a DDDS) of some sort. Todays IANA and wikis are humanly > fed and read, datawikis will be more and more fed and read by intelligent > processes. This intelligence leads to additional opportunities and > constraints. > > Our targets are the same, however you have to have conceptual limits, > while by essence I must have none. This is why I tried to poke our possib= le > common interest areas. Your two confirmed documents now gives us your > current limits (the more people understand what the "revolution" (as per > wikimedia) datawikis are going to be, the more they may expect from them)= . > > My own target is to internally review these documents, assess their > possible evolution, strive to stay interoperable, and permit users and > applications to take a better advantage from your project ( > wikidata.iucg.org). We will alert you if we fear possible architectural > conflicts through our work and tests. This seems to be in line with what > Lydia responded today. > > Best > jfc > > --=20 Project director Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Eisenacher Stra=C3=9Fe 2 | 10777 Berlin Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur F=C3=B6rderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinn=C3=BCtzig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt f= =C3=BCr K=C3=B6rperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. --14dae934078f7997e804bd51a80d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, JFC. Often those that will change the world tomorrow ar= e those that are not understood today.

Cheers,
Denny

2012/4/6 JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com>
At 12:45 05/04/2012, Denny Vrande=C4=8Di=C4=87 wrote:
In short, we have for Wikidata two pragmatic goals:
* Wikidata's first aim is to support the Wikipedias with their language= links
* Wikidata's second aim is to support the Wikipedias with the infoboxes=

Out of the support for these tasks, other interesting use cases might and a= re expected to arise.

Until I manage to understand how your comments relate to one of these goals= , I will personally take the liberty to ignore your comments.

Fair enough :-)

Your assesments are correct. As I first documented it, our (iucg@ietf.org) target in this area = is the Internet+ (smart fringe to fringe Internet) MDRS (metadata registry = multilinguistic distributed referential system). The MDRS is to the Interne= t+ and to the Semiotic Internet (Intersem) that we explore, what the IANA i= s to the legacy Internet, and what Wikidata might be to Wikimedia.

Our "use case" is the Internet+ distributed operations (I documen= ted the IETF Drafts references). The MDRS will most probably be a datawiki = or/and a DDDS (the DNS is a DDDS) of some sort. Todays IANA and wikis are h= umanly fed and read, datawikis will be more and more fed and read by intell= igent processes. This intelligence leads to additional opportunities and co= nstraints.

Our targets are the same, however you have to have conceptual limits, while= by essence I must have none. This is why I tried to poke our possible comm= on interest areas. Your two confirmed documents now gives us your current l= imits (the more people understand what the "revolution" (as per w= ikimedia) datawikis are going to be, the more they may expect from them).
My own target is to internally review these documents, assess their possibl= e evolution, strive to stay interoperable, and permit users and application= s to take a better advantage from your project (wikidata.iucg.org). We will alert you if we= fear possible architectural conflicts through our work and tests. This see= ms to be in line with what Lydia responded today.

Best
jfc




-- Project director Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Eisenacher Str= a=C3=9Fe 2 | 10777 Berlin
Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur F=C3=B6rd= erung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts B= erlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinn=C3=BCtzig anerka= nnt durch das Finanzamt f=C3=BCr K=C3=B6rperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer= 27/681/51985.

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