From jefsey@jefsey.com Sun Jul 8 13:04:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E896721F8668 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 13:04:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hPFD3hmQmacS for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 13:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m169.montage2.altserver.com (m169.montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608F221F869D for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 13:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i03v-62-35-238-138.d4.club-internet.fr ([62.35.238.138]:65054 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SnxiZ-0003lG-L4 for iucg@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 13:04:32 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 22:01:27 +0200 To: "iucg@ietf.org" From: JFC Morfin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-Id: <20120708200409.608F221F869D@ietfa.amsl.com> Subject: [iucg] Internet+ and IUTF drafts X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 20:04:10 -0000 I will try to update these drafts this month: - http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-iucg-internet-plus-10.txt - http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-iucg-iutf-tasks-01.txt Then, I would plan to start working on a prototype interbox developped in Erlang and using CouchDB as an integrated NoSQL database slot. Next slots could be a DNS protocol, ML-DNS basic functionnalities (IDNApp) and a NIC management support. 1. comments on the Drafts are welcome. 2. interest in working on the interbox architecture/development or comments are welcome. Until mid-July I will keep this internal to IUCG. jfc From psuger@gmail.com Sun Jul 8 14:08:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA9021F859B for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 14:08:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l6LXWh5oVM9C for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 14:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com (mail-ob0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B80C21F8568 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 14:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbwc20 with SMTP id wc20so20950034obb.31 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:08:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=WMvDyO7Pogu6ak9NhKjjz31TE2zhIUxYfG7bl0MPAMc=; b=F4vrhWD4X9m5bTKo5pB5wFLGKXBOKraQME59taDf2TYq6wXf+9WJYko34hHer8+ZNt dT2Fe4pcvdC5dDeP0o47akat+FKHE315s1515x0P71qFYcomr3m0Ekv3iW4uOaThTeOz bz7KKuJkVNlWW+FYxWKoLpfM/ad9UqnjR704v8AhsHpaBaYoZXGcl4N5EXlcMpKDMvBg 1F3UnpVz3lnHiO+8k0Dfln/uauVBQEbRrzPnTrSF35UIlm8HwYBv0wzz+IJlFfQrdbtY LIfDzTLiCQ6i+HnV2GVRZUn9/IbjZ6y+PE7nOLIm0N/DBTZ+qtM+i2scZ3Qx2s4aJMQn KJ/Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.26.65 with SMTP id j1mr39996964oeg.9.1341781715340; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.161.36 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 14:08:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120708200409.608F221F869D@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20120708200409.608F221F869D@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 23:08:35 +0200 Message-ID: From: Patrick Suger To: internet users contributing group Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1eef4824e9704c457e687 Subject: Re: [iucg] Internet+ and IUTF drafts X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 21:08:13 -0000 --e89a8fb1eef4824e9704c457e687 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I understand that when you speak of an interbox you use the word as a generic term and do not relate the concept to any specific programmation language. PSuger 2012/7/8 JFC Morfin > I will try to update these drafts this month: > - http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-**iucg-internet-plus-10.txt > - http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-**iucg-iutf-tasks-01.txt > > Then, I would plan to start working on a prototype interbox developped in > Erlang and using CouchDB as an integrated NoSQL database slot. Next slots > could be a DNS protocol, ML-DNS basic functionnalities (IDNApp) and a NIC > management support. > > 1. comments on the Drafts are welcome. > 2. interest in working on the interbox architecture/development or > comments are welcome. > > Until mid-July I will keep this internal to IUCG. > jfc > > ______________________________**_________________ > iucg mailing list > iucg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/iucg > --e89a8fb1eef4824e9704c457e687 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I understand that when you speak of an interbox you use the word as a gener= ic term and do not relate the concept to any specific programmation languag= e.
PSuger


2012/7/8 JFC Morfin <je= fsey@jefsey.com>
I will try to update these drafts this month= :
- http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-iucg-internet-plus-10.txt
- http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-iucg-iutf-tasks-01.txt

Then, I would plan to start working on a prototype interbox developped in E= rlang and using CouchDB as an integrated NoSQL database slot. Next slots co= uld be a DNS protocol, ML-DNS basic functionnalities (IDNApp) and a NIC man= agement support.

1. comments on the Drafts are welcome.
2. interest in working on the interbox architecture/development or comments= are welcome.

Until mid-July I will keep this internal to IUCG.
jfc

_______________________________________________
iucg mailing list
iucg@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg

--e89a8fb1eef4824e9704c457e687-- From jefsey@jefsey.com Sun Jul 8 15:04:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C96B21F8737 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 15:04:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.999, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_110=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5A0f8XQzJg6p for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 15:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m169.montage2.altserver.com (m169.montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CEEB21F873E for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 15:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i03v-62-35-238-138.d4.club-internet.fr ([62.35.238.138]:59455 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SnzbE-0001ro-RA; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:05:06 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 00:05:00 +0200 To: internet users contributing group , internet users contributing group From: JFC Morfin In-Reply-To: References: <20120708200409.608F221F869D@ietfa.amsl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_176777946==.ALT" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-Id: <20120708220450.7CEEB21F873E@ietfa.amsl.com> Subject: Re: [iucg] Internet+ and IUTF drafts X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 22:04:51 -0000 --=====================_176777946==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 23:08 08/07/2012, Patrick Suger wrote: >I understand that when you speak of an interbox you use the word as >a generic term and do not relate the concept to any specific >programmation language. >PSuger Correct. Actually, the ICANN mess with vTLDs and the strategy of Vint Cerf as I perceive it with Public DNS and Google+ (which actually follow and test the Internet+ vision with all the power of Google) lead me to think that the best way to implement the Internet+ is to consider it as an actual independent addition to the Internet. With its documentation by the IUTF, on top of the IETF, the fringe to fringe stratum being managed as "inter-boxes" services and the ML-DNS being implemented as an SDNS (semantic digital naming system) supporting the SAS (semantic addressing system). This way, whatever the Value-Added stratum (VAS) keeps separated from the Extended Services (ESS) one, and does not care about the technology being used there. This gives more time, prevents a take-over of a "DNS+" by invaders, disconnects the IETF from the IUTF as the ITU is disconnected from the ITU, and simplifies the I+ Governance. So, my personal focus is prototyping ALFA (Architecture Libre/Free Architecture) from Internet+ to Intersem as an "alfasem" (system) of "alfabox"es, and develop specialised "alfaslots" as proofs of concepts. The next common interest I_Ds are: - the Intertest charter, so there is no confusion when using the Internet as a VAS test-bed or moving on top of any kind of future internet - a cross-technology/system SDNS syntax for the whole digital ecosystem - UNINUM, a universal numbering plan integrating IPv6 as well. - some conceptual framework for the intergrams as a generalization of the directly adressable datagrams family. This is why I would like to give-up the Internet+ architectural framework concepts as an I_D until we can prove it as operationnal at both fringes within the IUTF arena. Just to focus on INTLNET to make it the secretariat of the IUSG/IUTF until the I+Governance may organize. jfc >2012/7/8 JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com> >I will try to update these drafts this month: >- >http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-iucg-internet-plus-10.txt >- http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-iucg-iutf-tasks-01.txt > >Then, I would plan to start working on a prototype interbox >developped in Erlang and using CouchDB as an integrated NoSQL >database slot. Next slots could be a DNS protocol, ML-DNS basic >functionnalities (IDNApp) and a NIC management support. > >1. comments on the Drafts are welcome. >2. interest in working on the interbox architecture/development or >comments are welcome. > >Until mid-July I will keep this internal to IUCG. >jfc > >_______________________________________________ >iucg mailing list >iucg@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg > > >_______________________________________________ >iucg mailing list >iucg@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg --=====================_176777946==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 23:08 08/07/2012, Patrick Suger wrote:
I understand that when you speak of an interbox you use the word as a generic term and do not relate the concept to any specific programmation language.
PSuger

Correct.

Actually, the ICANN mess with vTLDs and  the strategy of Vint Cerf as I perceive it with  Public DNS and Google+ (which actually follow and test the Internet+ vision with all the power of Google) lead me to think that the best way to implement the Internet+ is to consider it as an actual independent addition to the Internet. With its documentation by the IUTF, on top of the IETF, the fringe to fringe stratum being managed as "inter-boxes" services and the ML-DNS being implemented as an SDNS (semantic digital naming system) supporting the SAS (semantic addressing system). This way, whatever the Value-Added stratum (VAS) keeps separated from the Extended Services (ESS) one, and does not care about the technology being used there.

This gives more time, prevents a take-over of a "DNS+" by invaders, disconnects the IETF from the IUTF as the ITU is disconnected from the ITU, and simplifies the I+ Governance.

So, my personal focus is prototyping ALFA (Architecture Libre/Free Architecture) from Internet+ to Intersem as an "alfasem" (system) of "alfabox"es, and develop  specialised "alfaslots" as proofs of concepts. The next common interest I_Ds are:

- the Intertest charter, so there is no confusion when using the Internet as a VAS test-bed or moving on top of any kind of future internet
- a cross-technology/system SDNS syntax for the whole digital ecosystem
- UNINUM, a universal numbering plan integrating IPv6 as well.
- some conceptual framework for the intergrams as a generalization of the directly adressable datagrams family.

This is why I would like to give-up the Internet+ architectural framework concepts as an I_D until we can prove it as operationnal at both fringes within the IUTF arena. Just to focus on INTLNET to make it the secretariat of the IUSG/IUTF until the I+Governance may organize.

jfc


2012/7/8 JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com>
I will try to update these drafts this month:
- http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-iucg-internet-plus-10.txt
- http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-iucg-iutf-tasks-01.txt

Then, I would plan to start working on a prototype interbox developped in Erlang and using CouchDB as an integrated NoSQL database slot. Next slots could be a DNS protocol, ML-DNS basic functionnalities (IDNApp) and a NIC management support.

1. comments on the Drafts are welcome.
2. interest in working on the interbox architecture/development or comments are welcome.

Until mid-July I will keep this internal to IUCG.
jfc

_______________________________________________
iucg mailing list
iucg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg


_______________________________________________
iucg mailing list
iucg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg
--=====================_176777946==.ALT-- From mfberny@gmail.com Sun Jul 8 16:05:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F59821F8735 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 16:05:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p-HKptfJ0Nb4 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 16:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-f172.google.com (mail-gh0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8591F21F86F9 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 16:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ghbg16 with SMTP id g16so10546450ghb.31 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 16:06:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=tpi/leYwbX2j/fG0vo27uf2jDfN17onNsPf7RyUrGJk=; b=EaKrn74ar5UyDmX0L1YSZQo6WMLjdwfdDPIewlnPVgwpECtLath3iLz9IhVau0C1qS s3qZq7peWYJvzZqzKPHrTzPyfPLVDokJTcybppzGO9evdR/cac+qAnEHDbz1QOp6sEc5 kZFkxBVxgp1E+vGVZjadv6IjXyx/GLlwEKQvpJvKQpcFtwS8IHWndFHN3nIheA/LmgxD q+MjnpTO1tSUOMQYP3X0Th0z9yZEsbszj6FTluasCd7TFrFPpjjFki6QDPkPmof4JHGr dRIA+fLZbN//1+lvDFPK5R82Sv8JKQQw5AKfOKwvoXi3NOnDBCkBC2g8Ip6UV6W9LzlU IcIw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.185.198 with SMTP id u46mr45099301yhm.33.1341788777298; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 16:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.29.234 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 16:06:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120708220450.7CEEB21F873E@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20120708200409.608F221F869D@ietfa.amsl.com> <20120708220450.7CEEB21F873E@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 01:06:17 +0200 Message-ID: From: Marie-France Berny To: internet users contributing group Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3056409f6f3a0404c4598bf2 Subject: Re: [iucg] Internet+ and IUTF drafts X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:05:55 -0000 --20cf3056409f6f3a0404c4598bf2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2012/7/9 JFC Morfin > - UNINUM, a universal numbering plan integrating IPv6 as well. > I had a look to http://uninum.org: you did not change anything. Is Uninum a matter you plan to discuss anytime soon? Marie-France Berny --20cf3056409f6f3a0404c4598bf2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2012/7/9 JFC Morfin &l= t;jefsey@jefsey.com<= /a>>
- UNINUM, a universal numbering plan integrating IPv6 as well.

I had a look to http://un= inum.org: you did not change anything. Is Uninum a matter you plan to d= iscuss anytime soon?
Marie-France Berny
--20cf3056409f6f3a0404c4598bf2-- From jefsey@jefsey.com Mon Jul 9 01:04:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1725A21F8675 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 01:04:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_75=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9V0aL--B64Hy for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 01:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m169.montage2.altserver.com (m169.montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36DA21F865D for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 01:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i03v-62-35-238-138.d4.club-internet.fr ([62.35.238.138]:61212 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1So8xa-0004Np-QN; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 01:04:47 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:04:45 +0200 To: internet users contributing group , internet users contributing group From: JFC Morfin In-Reply-To: References: <20120708200409.608F221F869D@ietfa.amsl.com> <20120708220450.7CEEB21F873E@ietfa.amsl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_35360341==.ALT" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-Id: <20120709080423.C36DA21F865D@ietfa.amsl.com> Subject: Re: [iucg] Internet+ and IUTF drafts X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 08:04:25 -0000 --=====================_35360341==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:06 09/07/2012, Marie-France Berny wrote: >2012/7/9 JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com> >- UNINUM, a universal numbering plan integrating IPv6 as well. > > >I had a look to http://uninum.org: you did not >change anything. Is Uninum a matter you plan to discuss anytime soon? >Marie-France Berny This is something I plan to discuss as part of the Internet+ Draft. However it could also be attached to the SDNS I_D about semantic digital names syntax I started working on mostly in French (http://iucg.org/wiki/SDNS_-_Semantic_Digital_Naming_Syntax) before it should be extended in a dedicated document and MDRS database. The concept I would eventually propose is the one of an universal numbering plan number serving as a common root in decimal, hexa and alphadecimal numbering areas. The root would be 3 to 17 figures long. An Uninum would then be formed by the NPN + the values of the concerned plan, whatever the length of their string. An IPv6 address would therefore be 35 hexa long., but could also be compacted as a base 36 or 34 (without I and O) alphadecimal number. However, I would suggest that we keep this concept unprecise in the architectural framework in order to be flexible during the prototyping/intertesting period and finalize on experience. In particular I would like to preserve the possibility to use numeric.names to optimise things like CCN (content centric networking). Comments welcome. jfc PS. I am in a Leibniz period while we just discovered the higgs. I feel we need to be prepared to fully support monadic networking concepts + Complex Time in an _open_ way, not to be passed by the future needs, as it was the case with IPv4. So, we are better to be able to give a scalar address to every higgs, Planck vanished particule, and Platon's idea :-) if possible without wasting too much bandwidth! --=====================_35360341==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 01:06 09/07/2012, Marie-France Berny wrote:
2012/7/9 JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com>
- UNINUM, a universal numbering plan integrating IPv6 as well.


I had a look to http://uninum.org: you did not change anything. Is Uninum a matter you plan to discuss anytime soon?
Marie-France Berny

This is something I plan to discuss as part of the Internet+ Draft. However it could also be attached to the SDNS I_D about semantic digital names syntax I started working on mostly in French ( http://iucg.org/wiki/SDNS_-_Semantic_Digital_Naming_Syntax) before it should be extended in a dedicated document and MDRS database.

The concept I would eventually propose is the one of an universal numbering plan number serving as a common root in decimal, hexa and alphadecimal numbering areas. The root would be 3 to 17 figures long. An Uninum would then be formed by the NPN + the values of the concerned plan, whatever the length of their string. An IPv6 address would therefore be 35 hexa long., but could also be compacted as a base 36 or 34 (without I and O) alphadecimal number.

However, I would suggest that we keep this concept unprecise in the architectural framework in order to be flexible during the prototyping/intertesting period and finalize on experience. In particular I would like to preserve the possibility to use numeric.names to optimise things like CCN (content centric networking).

Comments welcome.
jfc


PS. I am in a Leibniz period while we just discovered the higgs. I feel we need to be prepared to fully support monadic networking concepts + Complex Time in an _open_ way, not to be passed by the future needs, as it was the case with IPv4. So, we are better to be able to give a scalar address to every higgs, Planck vanished particule, and Platon's idea :-) if possible without wasting too much bandwidth!


--=====================_35360341==.ALT-- From jmabdp@gmail.com Mon Jul 9 03:04:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8921221F8637 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:04:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_75=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EnunKejLHgjY for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bk0-f44.google.com (mail-bk0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C238A21F853B for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bkty7 with SMTP id y7so2544285bkt.31 for ; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 03:05:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=x7Ap2mGMPn+XzC9/aZhQ3Egi1zJ758d7DUXekvcthGE=; b=PzQlT7/9J5sj0KePkmlw+uKuZ6fIjfREV9gV8FJ5f9Epb+MPcuEXOcM5Xqlkd76uwv U7vzSoJqbuqv+rt1V1Cisi5fLOesHmd+j1l3UgvtMdLe91yJMkCndhFUpimqJFoCr1mq QeMy4wel58Cm2wgQ0vIc97znKx8GS1vSswY09xOVT4vbdK/f6fcqYUdinmka466RjE6x 9tOGuJ7X47HPiUUD9wZZKyLcjCDszLFVDWTv20OW/DcZYaKFSlQ18AyIZmRh7EppNlfQ VO8UFxC13mSutQt7O3JngO+DgCAP05wy1huRbX5M8iLSzpRCF6VRgrn9zq0HQVU14bK/ 4eLg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.220 with SMTP id h28mr8908054bkw.30.1341828306556; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 03:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.115.72 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:05:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120709080423.C36DA21F865D@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20120708200409.608F221F869D@ietfa.amsl.com> <20120708220450.7CEEB21F873E@ietfa.amsl.com> <20120709080423.C36DA21F865D@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:05:06 +0200 Message-ID: From: jean-michel bernier de portzamparc To: internet users contributing group Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cd17e8fd81004c462bf43 Subject: Re: [iucg] Internet+ and IUTF drafts X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:04:43 -0000 --0015175cd17e8fd81004c462bf43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2012/7/9 JFC Morfin > However, I would suggest that we keep this concept unprecise in the > architectural framework in order to be flexible during the > prototyping/intertesting period and finalize on experience. In particular I > would like to preserve the possibility to use numeric.names to optimise > things like CCN (content centric networking). > If I am correct, you would like to give a final reference or semantic address to every document or even every object, thought and concept across the time. Don't you fear to reproduce the Unicode cacophony? Who will tell you that two objects are the same or not? This will open the door to intellectual phishing (a part from the practical impossibility due to the size of the tables ...)! Portzamparc --0015175cd17e8fd81004c462bf43 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2012/7/9 JFC Morfin &l= t;jefsey@jefsey.com<= /a>>
However, I would suggest that we keep this concept unprecise in the architectural framework in order to be flexible during the prototyping/intertesting period and finalize on experience. In particular I would like to preserve the possibility to use numeric.names to optimise things like CCN (content centric networking).
<= br>If I am correct, you would like to give a final reference or semantic ad= dress to every document or even every object, thought and concept across th= e time. Don't you fear to reproduce the Unicode cacophony? Who will tel= l you that two objects are the same or not? This will open the door to inte= llectual phishing (a part from the practical impossibility due to the size = of the tables ...)!
Portzamparc
--0015175cd17e8fd81004c462bf43-- From mfberny@gmail.com Mon Jul 9 03:19:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964D021F869C for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:19:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_75=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2W49akDFBQjt for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-f172.google.com (mail-gh0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7E221F8555 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ghbg16 with SMTP id g16so10873340ghb.31 for ; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 03:20:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=sVtEqmNmVFOiYF4IPLu5ZdaSfW6mjdVBv6tV8zZVfNE=; b=bSPCynd3veUusJyb8HrF0+ylHQdOPJXj/OSSDJY4G4N9zRdbKeBRYIIiEirt/CwEz9 FBVx4MdnOPbMZUB2kuHGepNkxvH6u8KLxEW+E8P88fq0EqFsSxzdS8QE/4gc/Oidh7YX 4DNC0YlOZ0Tz6cMOR+ykfmRvG10wpZ9fKgNuCSzLGJrvyq5BbxL3rmBoWLUd7rfN8BtE svwUryc70espVoF9Ll4TTUOUt9D9f44R9NB53dnOZH9jE5EvhOC4MiuTBvYZu8Pl7gxm OJfC99SkEu6RkdJX8D/8E6XDa7jeCodNtGSAiXJxfrX9cxPUrhG/g5+oODfO7jIKwzr1 OlIA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.190.6 with SMTP id d6mr45346821yhn.16.1341829205937; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 03:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.29.234 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:20:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120708200409.608F221F869D@ietfa.amsl.com> <20120708220450.7CEEB21F873E@ietfa.amsl.com> <20120709080423.C36DA21F865D@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:20:05 +0200 Message-ID: From: Marie-France Berny To: internet users contributing group Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf302075062b4f3404c462f51e Subject: Re: [iucg] Internet+ and IUTF drafts X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:19:45 -0000 --20cf302075062b4f3404c462f51e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I am not sure the size is so large. People use to survive with 800 to 2000 words. It would be interesting to know how many concepts we actually use (look at the Chinese characters). Another interesting work is Pierre Levy's IEML (http://www.ieml.org). Marie-France Berny 2012/7/9 jean-michel bernier de portzamparc > > > 2012/7/9 JFC Morfin > >> However, I would suggest that we keep this concept unprecise in the >> architectural framework in order to be flexible during the >> prototyping/intertesting period and finalize on experience. In particular I >> would like to preserve the possibility to use numeric.names to optimise >> things like CCN (content centric networking). >> > > If I am correct, you would like to give a final reference or semantic > address to every document or even every object, thought and concept across > the time. Don't you fear to reproduce the Unicode cacophony? Who will tell > you that two objects are the same or not? This will open the door to > intellectual phishing (a part from the practical impossibility due to the > size of the tables ...)! > Portzamparc > > _______________________________________________ > iucg mailing list > iucg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg > > --20cf302075062b4f3404c462f51e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am not sure the size is so large. People use to survive with 800 to 2000 = words. It would be interesting to know how many concepts we actually use (l= ook at the Chinese characters). Another interesting work is Pierre Levy'= ;s IEML (http://www.ieml.org).
Marie-France Berny

2012/7/9 jean-michel b= ernier de portzamparc <jmabdp@gmail.com>


2012/7/9 JFC Morfin <= jefsey@jefsey.com>
However, I would suggest that we keep this concept unprecise in the architectural framework in order to be flexible during the prototyping/intertesting period and finalize on experience. In particular I would like to preserve the possibility to use numeric.names to optimise things like CCN (content centric networking).
=

If I am correct, you would like to give a final reference or seman= tic address to every document or even every object, thought and concept acr= oss the time. Don't you fear to reproduce the Unicode cacophony? Who wi= ll tell you that two objects are the same or not? This will open the door t= o intellectual phishing (a part from the practical impossibility due to the= size of the tables ...)!
Portzamparc

_______________________________________________
iucg mailing list
iucg@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg


--20cf302075062b4f3404c462f51e-- From jefsey@jefsey.com Mon Jul 9 03:48:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0AB821F84FA for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:48:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.815 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.815 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.516, BAYES_00=-2.599, MANGLED_RX=2.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WRvuGySDKqhh for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m169.montage2.altserver.com (m169.montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D7321F85EA for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 03:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i03v-62-35-238-138.d4.club-internet.fr ([62.35.238.138]:49452 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SoBWl-00036s-LO for iucg@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 03:49:16 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 12:48:27 +0200 To: "iucg@ietf.org" From: jefsey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-Id: <20120709104852.A0D7321F85EA@ietfa.amsl.com> Subject: [iucg] ECAI 2012 X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:48:54 -0000 http://www2.lirmm.fr/ecai2012/ Preinscriptions close tomorrow (lower rate). I will attend and can host someone during the duration of the meeting. My focus will be to explore interest and discuss interboxes as autonomous agents in a multiagent network context. jfc From jefsey@jefsey.com Mon Jul 9 07:51:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED5621F861B for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 07:51:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.536 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.536 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.462, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_75=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id THnehn-4+chD for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 07:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m169.montage2.altserver.com (m169.montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0AE821F84B3 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 07:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i03v-62-35-238-138.d4.club-internet.fr ([62.35.238.138]:51133 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SoFJY-0001ws-D2 for iucg@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 07:51:52 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 16:49:27 +0200 To: internet users contributing group From: JFC Morfin In-Reply-To: References: <20120708200409.608F221F869D@ietfa.amsl.com> <20120708220450.7CEEB21F873E@ietfa.amsl.com> <20120709080423.C36DA21F865D@ietfa.amsl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_59784699==.ALT" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-Id: <20120709145127.B0AE821F84B3@ietfa.amsl.com> Subject: Re: [iucg] Internet+ and IUTF drafts X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 14:51:28 -0000 --=====================_59784699==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed On 12:05 09/07/2012, jean-michel bernier de portzamparc said: >2012/7/9 JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com> >However, I would suggest that we keep this concept unprecise in the >architectural framework in order to be flexible during the >prototyping/intertesting period and finalize on experience. In >particular I would like to preserve the possibility to use >numeric.names to optimise things like CCN (content centric networking). > >If I am correct, you would like to give a final reference or >semantic address to every document or even every object, thought and >concept across the time. Don't you fear to reproduce the Unicode >cacophony? Who will tell you that two objects are the same or not? >This will open the door to intellectual phishing (a part from the >practical impossibility due to the size of the tables ...)! Good point. However: 1) I do not want to "give a final reference", I need a unique numbering plan for all the numbers given by others. 2) this numbering plan will include ISO 10646. So, the problem raised by Unicode will be there. The response lies in my principle of finite binary indiscernibles which refines Leibniz's one ( :-) ). If two binary finite objects are indiscernible they are the same object. For example, Unicode's cacophony, as you call it, result from using assigned code you cannot compare rather than the digital representation of its signs. If you establish a raster 32x32 (or 16x32) table of the character signs you can differentiate them or not, and build a universal table of sign graphics (Unigraph). The same for concepts you can build a polynym taxonomy. For ideas you can reduce them to logical statements. For people you have SSN or Author Numbers, for texts you have ISSN, etc. I do not claim it is easy, but I think it is workable. Numbers are quite compact, more over if they are Hexa or alphadecimal, and if you use only their end, when they have a common header. jfc --=====================_59784699==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" On 12:05 09/07/2012, jean-michel bernier de portzamparc said:
2012/7/9 JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com>
However, I would suggest that we keep this concept unprecise in the architectural framework in order to be flexible during the prototyping/intertesting period and finalize on experience. In particular I would like to preserve the possibility to use numeric.names to optimise things like CCN (content centric networking).

If I am correct, you would like to give a final reference or semantic address to every document or even every object, thought and concept across the time. Don't you fear to reproduce the Unicode cacophony? Who will tell you that two objects are the same or not? This will open the door to intellectual phishing (a part from the practical impossibility due to the size of the tables ...)!

Good point. However:

1) I do not want to "give a final reference", I need a unique numbering plan for all the numbers given by others.
2) this numbering plan will include ISO 10646. So, the problem raised by Unicode will be there.

The response lies in my principle of finite binary indiscernibles which refines Leibniz's one ( :-) ). If two binary finite objects are indiscernible they are the same object. For example, Unicode's cacophony, as you call it, result from using assigned code you cannot compare rather than the digital representation of its signs. If you establish a raster 32x32 (or 16x32) table of the character signs you can differentiate them or not, and build a universal table of sign graphics (Unigraph). The same for concepts you can build a polynym taxonomy. For ideas you can reduce them to logical statements. For people you have SSN or Author Numbers, for texts you have ISSN, etc.  I do not claim it is easy, but I think it is workable.

Numbers are quite compact, more over if they are Hexa or alphadecimal, and if you use only their end, when they have a common header.
jfc
--=====================_59784699==.ALT--