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From: Neil Jenkins <neilj@fastmailteam.com>
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On Fri, 22 Dec 2017, at 10:43 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote:
> I think value 1 is rather limiting and will prevent the protocol from
> being useful, because clients might have to potentially have multiple
> code paths to cope with maxCallsInRequest == 1 and more capable
> servers.
Based on the feedback in #86[1], I went with a minimum value of 32.
Based on our experience using the protocol, 16 would be fine for normal
usage, if you think 32 is too high?
> *#89*[2]* Do we need a registry of error types? *
> 
> Yes, I think we need to have a registry. I find IANA registries to be
> useful for implementing things and finding out what was already
> registered.
Hmm, the feedback I've had off-list is this is probably not necessary. I
have gone through RFC 5530[3] to make sure any relevant errors are
covered in the spec, and the consensus seemed to be that entirely new
classes of error were unlikely to appear. It greatly helps client
authors to know the complete set of errors that may be returned to
ensure everything is handled in an appropriate manner; this should make
that easier.
>> How do I go about creating a registry presuming we decide we do
>> need one?> I can suggest some text on this. I think the main thing to decide
> first is the registration policy. Do we want some kind of expert
> review for them?
If we do decide to create a registry, I think some kind of expert review
is reasonable, especially if it's meant to be a new generally applicable
error that any method could return.
Neil.

Links:

  1. https://github.com/jmapio/jmap/issues/86
  2. https://github.com/jmapio/jmap/issues/89
  3. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5530

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<body><div>On Fri, 22 Dec 2017, at 10:43 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div>I think value 1 is rather limiting and will prevent the protocol
    from being useful, because clients might have to potentially have
    multiple code paths to cope with maxCallsInRequest == 1 and more
    capable servers.<br></div>
</blockquote><div><br></div>
<div>Based on the <a href="https://github.com/jmapio/jmap/issues/86">feedback in #86</a>, I went with a minimum value of 32. Based on our experience using the protocol, 16 would be fine for normal usage, if you think 32 is too high?<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div><a href="https://github.com/jmapio/jmap/issues/89"><b>#89</b></a><b>&nbsp;Do we need a registry
          of error types? </b><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Yes, I think we need to have a registry. I find IANA registries to
    be useful for implementing things and finding out what was already
    registered.<br></div>
</blockquote><div><br></div>
<div>Hmm, the feedback I've had off-list is this is probably not necessary. I have gone through <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5530">RFC 5530</a> to make sure any relevant errors are covered in the spec, and the consensus seemed to be that entirely new classes of error were unlikely to appear. It greatly helps client authors to know the complete set of errors that may be returned to ensure everything is handled in an appropriate manner; this should make that easier.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote cite="mid:1513222733.562048.1204501864.2B4A2737@webmail.messagingengine.com" type="cite"><div>How do I go about creating a registry presuming we decide we
        do need one?<br></div>
</blockquote><div>I can suggest some text on this. I think the main thing to decide
    first is the registration policy. Do we want some kind of expert
    review for them?<br></div>
</blockquote><div><br></div>
<div>If we do decide to create a registry, I think some kind of expert review is reasonable, especially if it's meant to be a new generally applicable error that any method could return.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Neil.</div>
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On 11 Jan 2018, at 16:30, Neil Jenkins wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2017, at 10:43 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote:
>> I think value 1 is rather limiting and will prevent the protocol from
>> being useful, because clients might have to potentially have multiple
>> code paths to cope with maxCallsInRequest == 1 and more capable
>> servers.
> Based on the feedback in #86[1], I went with a minimum value of 32.
> Based on our experience using the protocol, 16 would be fine for 
> normal
> usage, if you think 32 is too high?
>> *#89*[2]* Do we need a registry of error types? *
>>
>> Yes, I think we need to have a registry. I find IANA registries to be
>> useful for implementing things and finding out what was already
>> registered.
> Hmm, the feedback I've had off-list is this is probably not necessary. 
> I
> have gone through RFC 5530[3] to make sure any relevant errors are
> covered in the spec, and the consensus seemed to be that entirely new
> classes of error were unlikely to appear. It greatly helps client
> authors to know the complete set of errors that may be returned to
> ensure everything is handled in an appropriate manner; this should 
> make
> that easier.

Errors are complex because there are conflicting goals. It's desirable 
to:

* provide machine readable codes to distinguish scenarios where a client 
may be interested in having a different behavior
* provide human readable text for sub-scenarios of a single machine 
readable code to help resolve problems faster
* provide a way to add new machine readable codes in the future without 
breaking clients, but we prefer not to add codes too often
* provide as complete a list as possible of machine readable codes
* provide examples of fault scenarios where clients need different 
behaviors to avoid support calls (e.g., bad user/password vs. service 
temporarily unavailable)
* avoid exposing data over protocol with privacy/security implications 
unless those implications are trumped by the cost of a support call

As long as clients MUST support error codes not defined in the base spec 
and the behavior for that scenario is documented, I'm ok with deferring 
registry creation to the first time an error code needs to be added. 
However, it's not that expensive to create an expert-review registry (a 
paragraph of text plus registry template) so doing it sooner may remove 
the need to publish an extra RFC in the future.

>>> How do I go about creating a registry presuming we decide we do
>>> need one?> I can suggest some text on this. I think the main thing 
>>> to decide
>> first is the registration policy. Do we want some kind of expert
>> review for them?
> If we do decide to create a registry, I think some kind of expert 
> review
> is reasonable, especially if it's meant to be a new generally 
> applicable
> error that any method could return.

My experience is that expert review works best for this sort of 
registry.

		- Chris

> Neil.


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Hi All,

It's time to submit our meeting request for London.  I know Barry has
some conflicts that he'd like to avoid which have happened to us the
past couple of times:
So here's the list of conflicts that I'd like to avoid next time.  Let
me know if there's anything else you want added to the list.  I'll
submit the session request during the week.
Primary blockers:

* extra
* dispatch
* httpbis
* uta
* oauth
* dcrup
* doh

With secondary against:
* saag
* tls
* ace
* lamps
* core
* quic

Does that capture everything everyone cares about?

I'm about to send a very similar email to the EXTRA mailing list as
well!
Bron.

--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd
  brong@fastmailteam.com



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<body><div style="font-family:Arial;">Hi All,<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">It's time to submit our meeting request for London.&nbsp; I know Barry has some conflicts that he'd like to avoid which have happened to us the past couple of times:<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">So here's the list of conflicts that I'd like to avoid next time.&nbsp; Let me know if there's anything else you want added to the list.&nbsp; I'll submit the session request during the week.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Primary blockers:<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* extra<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* dispatch<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* httpbis<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* uta<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* oauth<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* dcrup<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* doh<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">With secondary against:<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* saag<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* tls<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* ace<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* lamps<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* core<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">* quic<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Does that capture everything everyone cares about?<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">I'm about to send a very similar email to the EXTRA mailing list as well!<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Bron.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div id="sig56629417"><div class="signature">--<br></div>
<div class="signature">&nbsp; Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd<br></div>
<div class="signature">&nbsp; brong@fastmailteam.com<br></div>
<div class="signature"><br></div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
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From nobody Tue Jan 30 11:46:58 2018
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Subject: [Jmap] jmap - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 101
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Bron Gondwana, a Chair of the jmap working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: JSON Mail Access Protocol
Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area
Session Requester: Bron Gondwana

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 40
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: extra, dispatch, uta, artarea, dmarc, iasa20, mtgvenue, saag, oauth, dcrup, doh
 Second Priority: tls, httpbis, ace, lamps, core
 Third Priority: quic


People who must be present:
  Barry Leiba
  Alexey Melnikov
  Bron Gondwana

Resources Requested:
  Experimental Room Setup (U-Shape and classroom, subject to availability)
  Flipcharts: please specify number in Special Requests field

Special Requests:
  One flipchart please
---------------------------------------------------------


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An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Bron Gondwana, a Chair of the jmap working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: JSON Mail Access Protocol
Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area
Session Requester: Bron Gondwana

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 40
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: extra dispatch uta artarea dmarc iasa20 mtgvenue saag oauth dcrup doh
 Second Priority: tls httpbis ace lamps core
 Third Priority: quic


People who must be present:
  Barry Leiba
  Alexey Melnikov
  Neil Jenkins
  Bron Gondwana

Resources Requested:
  
  

Special Requests:
  One flipchart please
---------------------------------------------------------


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An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Bron Gondwana, a Chair of the jmap working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: JSON Mail Access Protocol
Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area
Session Requester: Bron Gondwana

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 40
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: extra dispatch uta artarea dmarc iasa20 mtgvenue saag oauth dcrup doh
 Second Priority: tls httpbis ace lamps core
 Third Priority: quic


People who must be present:
  Barry Leiba
  Alexey Melnikov
  Neil Jenkins
  Bron Gondwana

Resources Requested:
  
  

Special Requests:
  One flipchart please

Please avoid Friday as Barry won&#39;t be available.
---------------------------------------------------------


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Subject: [Jmap] JMAP added to Hackathon wiki page
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Hi All,

I've added JMAP to the IETF Hackathon page:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/101hackathon

*JMAP*


 * Champion(s)
   * Bron Gondwana
   * Neil Jenkins
 * Project(s)
   * Interoperability testing
   * Check that spec covers client needs
It would be great to have other implementations there to test with!
We'll be bringing Cyrus IMAPd, the perl proxy, and Neil's latest
frontend code (both the FastMail interface code, and the open source
libraries)
Cheers,

Bron.

--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd
  brong@fastmailteam.com



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<!DOCTYPE html>
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<body><div style="font-family:Arial;">Hi All,<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">I've added JMAP to the IETF Hackathon page:<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><a href="https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/101hackathon">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/101hackathon</a><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<p><b>JMAP</b><br></p><ul><li><div style="font-family:Arial;">Champion(s) <br></div>
<ul><li>Bron Gondwana<br></li><li>Neil Jenkins<br></li></ul></li><li><div style="font-family:Arial;">Project(s) <br></div>
<ul><li>Interoperability testing<br></li><li>Check that spec covers client needs<br></li></ul></li></ul><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">It would be great to have other implementations there to test with!&nbsp; We'll be bringing Cyrus IMAPd, the perl proxy, and Neil's latest frontend code (both the FastMail interface code, and the open source libraries)<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Cheers,<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Bron.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div>
<div id="sig56629417"><div class="signature">--<br></div>
<div class="signature">&nbsp; Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd<br></div>
<div class="signature">&nbsp; brong@fastmailteam.com<br></div>
<div class="signature"><br></div>
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--_----------=_151743559518793140--

