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Message-ID: <CALG4KobnghF22v9Y4VkxPFcgHCqZr9GzwtHu8gvg4U2HRrBSUg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Gregory Lebovitz <gregory.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com>
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Cc: "karp@ietf.org" <karp@ietf.org>
Subject: [karp] Threats-reqs Issue 10 (was "Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-karp-threats-reqs-05.txt")
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So we are agreed on all but two of your comments. One is on Req 21, and
I've asked Manav to reply to that. The other is issue 10. See inline...

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com>wrote:

> **
> Hi Gregory,
>
> Changes look fine to me. See my comments in-line..[Uma]
> --
> Uma C.
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Gregory Lebovitz [mailto:gregory.ietf@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:58 AM
> *To:* Uma Chunduri; Bhatia, Manav (Manav)
> *Cc:* karp@ietf.org; Brian Weis
>
> *Subject:* Re: [karp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-karp-threats-reqs-05.txt
>
> Hello, Uma. Thanks for your input.
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com>wrote:
>
>> **
>> Dear Authors,
>>
>> I read this version and the document is in good shape.
>>
>> If, it's not too late, I have few comments on the 05 version.
>>
>>
>> 1.a) Page 4: Section 1.  Introduction
>>     Third Bullet:
>>     "   o  Create specifications for cryptographic validation of routing
>>       message content."
>>     "The third bullet is being addressed in the SIDR
>>    working group."
>>    Though we can understand what SIDR is doing -  "routing message
>> content" just doesn't imply BGP message?
>>    I can understand what you are trying to say, but IMO, what is said is
>> not representative.
>>
>>
>
> How about this:
> NEW: The third bullet is being addressed in other efforts within the IETF.
> *For example, BGP message content validity is being addressed in the SIDR
> working group. *
> **
>

--SNIP--

>
>> 3. Section 1.1, Page 6:
>>    "If session or traffic
>>       keys are being used, KMP is responsible for generating them and
>>       determining when they should be renewed."
>>
>>    This is not necessarily the only way as it sounds. KMP can also be
>> used for only master key generation and
>>    traffic keys are generated from the same by the master key consumer.
>> And also determining when the keys should
>>    be renewed may not be KMP function. So I am not quite you define KMP
>> this way.
>>
>
> Understood. How about this:
>
> NEW:   In some routing protocols traffic keys are derived by the routing
> protocol from session / master keys. In this case, KMP is responsible for
> the session / master key generation. In other cases, there are only traffic
> keys (and no session / master keys), and KMP is responsible for the traffic
> key generation.
> *tracker ID 10.
>

>  *[Uma]: Perhaps you can drop "session/" in the above, as that sounds
> more synonymous to traffic keys rather than master key (both places).*
>
>

Yes, I think you are right. New text will be:
*In some routing protocols traffic keys are derived by the routing protocol
from a master key. In this case, KMP is responsible for the master key
generation. In other cases, there are only traffic keys (and no master
keys), and in such a case KMP is responsible for the traffic key generation.
*
*
*
*Gregory.*
*
*
*-- SNIP --*


>
> --
----
IETF related email from
Gregory M. Lebovitz

--047d7b339c4f46802a04c164b46f
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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">So we are agreed on all but two of your comments=
. One is on Req 21, and I&#39;ve asked Manav to reply to that. The other is=
 issue 10. See inline...</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote">
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Uma Chunduri <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:uma.chunduri@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">uma.chunduri@erics=
son.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>



<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial=
">Hi Gregory,</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial=
"></font></span>=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial=
">Changes=A0look fine to me. See my comments=20
in-line..[Uma]</font></span></div>
<div><span lang=3D"en-us"><font size=3D"4" face=3D"Times New Roman">--</fon=
t><font face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font></span><br><span lang=3D"en-us"><f=
ont size=3D"4" face=3D"Times New Roman">Uma C.</font> </span></div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial"></font>=A0</div><font size=3D"4=
"></font><br>
<div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" align=3D"left">
<hr>
<font face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Gregory Lebovitz=20
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregory=
.ietf@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:58=20
AM<br><b>To:</b> Uma Chunduri; Bhatia, Manav (Manav)<br><b>Cc:</b>=20
<a href=3D"mailto:karp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">karp@ietf.org</a>; Brian=
 Weis<div class=3D"im"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [karp] I-D Action:=20
draft-ietf-karp-threats-reqs-05.txt<br></div></font><br></div><div class=3D=
"im">
<div></div>Hello, Uma. Thanks for your input.=A0
</div><div><div><div class=3D"im"><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial"></=
font><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Uma Chunduri <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:uma.chunduri@ericsson.com" target=3D"=
_blank">uma.chunduri@ericsson.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><u></u>
  <div>
  <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Ari=
al">Dear=20
  Authors,</font></span></div>
  <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Ari=
al"></font></span>=A0</div>
  <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Ari=
al">I read this=20
  version and the document is in good shape.</font></span></div>
  <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Ari=
al"></font></span>=A0</div>
  <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Ari=
al">If, it&#39;s not too=20
  late, I have few comments=A0on the 05 version.</font></span></div>
  <div><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial"></font>=A0</div>
  <div><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial"></font>=A0</div>
  <div><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial">1.a) Page 4: Section 1.=A0=20
  Introduction<br>=A0=A0=A0 Third Bullet:<br>=A0=A0=A0=20
  &quot;=A0=A0 o=A0 Create specifications for cryptographic validation of=
=20
  routing<br>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 message=20
  content.&quot;<br>=A0=A0=A0 &quot;The third bullet is being addressed in =
the=20
  SIDR<br>=A0=A0 working group.&quot;<br>=A0=A0 Though we can understand=20
  what SIDR is doing -=A0 &quot;routing message content&quot; just doesn&#3=
9;t=20
  imply=A0<span>BGP </span>message? <br>=A0=A0 I=20
  can=A0<span>understand </span>what you are trying to say, but IMO, what i=
s=20
  said is not representative.</font></div>
  <div><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial"></font>=A0</div></div></block=
quote>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial"></font><b=
r></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">How about this:</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">NEW: The third bullet is being addressed in othe=
r efforts=20
within the IETF.=A0<span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Times"><b style=3D"FONT-WEIGH=
T:normal"><span style=3D"vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-s=
tyle:normal;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;text-decorati=
on:none;font-family:Arial;font-weight:normal">For=20
example, BGP message content validity is being addressed in the SIDR workin=
g=20
group.<span><font color=3D"#0000ff">=A0</font></span></span></b></span></di=
v>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Times"><b style=3D"FO=
NT-WEIGHT:normal"><span style=3D"vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:norma=
l;font-style:normal;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;text-=
decoration:none;font-family:Arial;font-weight:normal"><span></span></span><=
/b></span>=A0</div>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>=A0</div><div>--SNIP--=A0</div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEF=
T:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_=
quote">
<div><div>=A0</div>
  <div><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial">3. Section 1.1, Page 6:<br>=
=A0=A0=20
  &quot;If session or traffic<br>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 keys are being used,=20
  KMP is responsible for generating them and<br>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20
  determining when they should be renewed.&quot;</font></div>
  <div><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial"></font>=A0</div>
  <div><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial">=A0=A0 This is not necessaril=
y the=20
  only way as it sounds. KMP can also be used for only master key generatio=
n and=20
  <br>=A0=A0 traffic keys are generated from the same by the master key=20
  consumer. And also determining when the keys should <br>=A0=A0 be=20
  renewed may not be KMP function. So I am not quite you define KMP this=20
  way.</font></div></div></blockquote>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial"></font><b=
r></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">Understood. How about this:</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial"></font><b=
r></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">NEW: =A0 In some routing protocols traffic keys =
are=20
derived by the routing protocol from session / master keys. In this case,=
=20
KMP=A0is responsible for the session / master key generation.=A0In other=20
cases, there are only traffic keys (and no session / master keys), and KMP =
is=20
responsible for the traffic key generation.<span><font color=3D"#0000ff" fa=
ce=3D"Arial">=A0</font></span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial"></f=
ont></span>*tracker ID 10.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=A0</div>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span>
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Times"><b style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><spa=
n style=3D"vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-f=
amily:Arial;font-weight:normal"><span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Times"><b =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><span style=3D"vertical-align:baseline;font-va=
riant:normal;font-style:normal;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transp=
arent;text-decoration:none;font-family:Arial;font-weight:normal"><span><fon=
t color=3D"#0000ff">[Uma]: Perhaps=A0you=20
can=A0drop &quot;session/&quot; in the above, as that=A0sounds more synonym=
ous to=20
traffic keys rather than=A0master key=A0(both=20
places).</font></span></span></b></span></span></span></b></span></div>=A0<=
/span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, I think you a=
re right. New text will be:</div><div><div style=3D"background-color:transp=
arent;font-family:Times;font-size:medium">
<b id=3D"internal-source-marker_0.5919335754588246" style=3D"font-weight:no=
rmal"><b id=3D"internal-source-marker_0.5919335754588246" style=3D"font-wei=
ght:normal"><span style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0=
);background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-va=
riant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-w=
rap">In some routing protocols traffic keys are derived by the routing prot=
ocol from a master key. In this case, KMP is responsible for the master key=
 generation. In other cases, there are only traffic keys (and no master key=
s), and in such a case KMP is responsible for the traffic key generation</s=
pan></b><span style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);ba=
ckground-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-varian=
t:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"=
>.</span></b></div>
</div><div style=3D"background-color:transparent;font-family:Times;font-siz=
e:medium"><b id=3D"internal-source-marker_0.5919335754588246" style=3D"font=
-weight:normal"><span style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0=
,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;fon=
t-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:p=
re-wrap"><br>
</span></b></div><div style=3D"background-color:transparent;font-family:Tim=
es;font-size:medium"><b id=3D"internal-source-marker_0.5919335754588246" st=
yle=3D"font-weight:normal"><span style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;=
color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style=
:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap">Gregory.</span></b></div>
<div style=3D"background-color:transparent;font-family:Times;font-size:medi=
um"><b id=3D"internal-source-marker_0.5919335754588246" style=3D"font-weigh=
t:normal"><span style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-vari=
ant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wra=
p"><br>
</span></b></div><div style=3D"background-color:transparent;font-family:Tim=
es;font-size:medium"><b id=3D"internal-source-marker_0.5919335754588246" st=
yle=3D"font-weight:normal"><span style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;=
color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style=
:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap">-- SNIP --</span></b></div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div class=3D"im"><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>-=
- <br>----<br>IETF related email from<br>Gregory M. Lebovitz<br><br>

--047d7b339c4f46802a04c164b46f--

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From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>
To: Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com>
References: <02717414-847B-4E3C-9F47-7AE30947F052@cisco.com> <4FB7FAC3.70701@ieca.com> <tsld35oeed0.fsf@mit.edu> <4FC3BE9D.7080506@ieca.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:37:34 -0400
In-Reply-To: <4FC3BE9D.7080506@ieca.com> (Sean Turner's message of "Mon, 28 May 2012 14:06:21 -0400")
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Subject: Re: [karp] WGLC of draft-ietf-karp-ospf-analysis-03
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Hi.
Looking at the draft I'd prefer to address your two comments by updating
the solutions work section to add a paragraph  describing what has been
accomplished.
I think that works better than  working the solution work back in
throughout the rest of the draft.
The intent of this analysis was to capture the work that lead to
deciding we need the solutions.
>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com> writes:
    Sean> Also should this sentence be changed:

    Sean> OLD:

    Sean> A security solution will be developed for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 based on
    Sean> the OSPFv2 cryptographic authentication option.

    Sean> NEW:

    Sean> A security solution will be developed for OSPFv3 based on the OSPFv2
    Sean> cryptographic authentication option.


No, it's correct as written.  we're updating both ospfv2 and v3.  For
both we're using the existing v2 as a basis.  For v3 it's an entirely
new option.  For v2 it's a new option that handles source address,
requires enough constraints that we get inter-connection replay, etc.

From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Wed Jun  6 11:52:11 2012
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Subject: [karp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-karp-ospf-analysis-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Keying and Authentication for Routing=
 Protocols Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Analysis of OSPF Security According to KARP Design Guide
	Author(s)       : Sam Hartman
                          Dacheng Zhang
	Filename        : draft-ietf-karp-ospf-analysis-04.txt
	Pages           : 12
	Date            : 2012-06-06

   This document analyzes OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 according to the guidelines
   set forth in section 4.2 of draft-ietf-karp-design-guide.



A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-karp-ospf-analysis-04.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-karp-ospf-analysis-04.txt

The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-karp-ospf-analysis/


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Cc: karp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [karp] WGLC of draft-ietf-karp-ospf-analysis-03
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Sam,

That's okay by me.

spt

On 6/6/12 2:37 PM, Sam Hartman wrote:
> Hi.
> Looking at the draft I'd prefer to address your two comments by updating
> the solutions work section to add a paragraph  describing what has been
> accomplished.
> I think that works better than  working the solution work back in
> throughout the rest of the draft.
> The intent of this analysis was to capture the work that lead to
> deciding we need the solutions.
>>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Turner<turners@ieca.com>  writes:
>      Sean>  Also should this sentence be changed:
>
>      Sean>  OLD:
>
>      Sean>  A security solution will be developed for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 based on
>      Sean>  the OSPFv2 cryptographic authentication option.
>
>      Sean>  NEW:
>
>      Sean>  A security solution will be developed for OSPFv3 based on the OSPFv2
>      Sean>  cryptographic authentication option.
>
>
> No, it's correct as written.  we're updating both ospfv2 and v3.  For
> both we're using the existing v2 as a basis.  For v3 it's an entirely
> new option.  For v2 it's a new option that handles source address,
> requires enough constraints that we get inter-connection replay, etc.
>

From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Sat Jun 23 17:28:43 2012
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Subject: [karp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-karp-routing-tcp-analysis-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Keying and Authentication for Routing Pro=
tocols Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Analysis of BGP, LDP, PCEP and MSDP Issues According to =
KARP Design Guide
	Author(s)       : Mahesh Jethanandani
                          Keyur Patel
                          Lianshu Zheng
	Filename        : draft-ietf-karp-routing-tcp-analysis-02.txt
	Pages           : 17
	Date            : 2012-06-23

Abstract:
   This document analyzes BGP, LDP, PCEP and MSDP according to
   guidelines set forth in section 4.2 of Keying and Authentication for
   Routing Protocols Design Guidelines [RFC6518].

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-karp-routing-tcp-analysis

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-karp-routing-tcp-analysis-02

A diff from previous version is available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-karp-routing-tcp-analysis-02


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Fri Jun 29 05:30:16 2012
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Subject: [karp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-karp-crypto-key-table-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Keying and Authentication for Routing Pro=
tocols Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Database of Long-Lived Symmetric Cryptographic Keys
	Author(s)       : Russell Housley
                          Tim Polk
                          Sam Hartman
                          Dacheng Zhang
	Filename        : draft-ietf-karp-crypto-key-table-03.txt
	Pages           : 12
	Date            : 2012-06-29

Abstract:
   This document specifies the information contained in a conceptual
   database of long-lived cryptographic keys used by many different
   security protocols.  The database is designed to support both manual
   and automated key management.  In addition to describing the schema
   for the database, this document describes the operations that can be
   performed on the database as well as the requirements for the
   security protocols that wish to use the database.  In many typical
   scenarios, the security protocols do not directly use the long-lived
   key, but rather a key derivation function is used to derive a short-
   lived key from a long-lived key.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-karp-crypto-key-table

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http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-karp-crypto-key-table-03

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ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From jmh@joelhalpern.com  Fri Jun 29 16:01:25 2012
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Subject: [karp] WG LC: draft-ietf-karp-routing-tcp-analysis-02 to Informational
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This beings a two week WG last call to determine if folk support 
submitting the draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-karp-routing-tcp-analysis/?include_text=1
to our AD for publication as an Informational RFC.

Please send comments of support, or raising issues or concerns, to the 
WG email list.  (Comments with explanation are much more useful than 
those without.)

Given the weekend, the LC will run till 8pm PDT on 16-July-2012.

Thank you,
Joel M. Halpern
and Brian Weis
co-chairs
