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From: rvuoo@hotbot.com
To: ahdxd@sernageomin.cl
Reply-To: sernageomin.cl@ywing.netscape.com
Subject: Special Invitation                                                   gyild
Message-Id: <200008010343750.SM00340@zuyse.>
Date: Tue,  1 Aug 2000 03:48:02 -0300
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Special Invitation
 
  Have you looked at our simple gifts club yet?
     
  I won't tell you that you will get rich quick but if you invite others and help them,you can be gifted.
     
     It's very simple,people helping people.
     
 
 Send us an email with Simple Gifts as the subject and we will get the info off to you right away. 
   
 You may also Include Your Name # or Fax# to receive
 more information
 
 mailto:goodincome@angelfire.com?subject=SimpleGifts ======================================================
 
 mailto:qwrqwr@angelfire.com?subject=Remove    



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug  1 08:18:02 2000
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Subject: folks slides from LDAPEXT meeting?
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From: Jeff.Hodges@stanford.edu
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It'd be helpful if everyone who talked at the LDAPEXT mtg, and displayed 
slides, would send their slides to the list. Ones I noted down were..

Ellen S. (done)
MarkW
Leif
Ed R
David C

Apologies if I got anyone's name wrong or forgot someone.

thanks,

JeffH








From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug  1 08:20:37 2000
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Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 06:44:25 -0400
To: Rich Salz <rsalz@caveosystems.com>, d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From: Harald Alvestrand <Harald@Alvestrand.no>
Subject: Re: Use of criticality in dupent-04
Cc: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>,
        ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
In-Reply-To: <398438B2.45E739C6@caveosystems.com>
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 <39842ACB.17440.82A38C5@localhost>
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At 10:16 30/07/2000 -0400, Rich Salz wrote:
>I think it's more likely that a repository must want to include a critical
>control in its response that allows it to "disclaim" some of its data.  For
>example, "these search results are not to be used for spam," "i cannot vouch
>for the content you'll get when you follow these referrals," etc.

another typical case would be "these data are incomprehensible if you don't 
understand this control" - for instance if we (horror!) were to define a 
control for tagging returned text as being Shift-JIS encoded instead of UTF-8.

The server can't force the client to do anything special, but can give 
appropriate warning that results are likely to be incomprehensible, and the 
only appropriate action on the client's side may be presenting an "upgrade 
your software?" message to the unhappy user.

                 Harald

--
Harald Tveit Alvestrand, alvestrand@cisco.com
+47 41 44 29 94
Personal email: Harald@Alvestrand.no



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Subject: cldap presentation ietf-48
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Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 15:03:30 +0200
From: Leif Johansson <leifj@it.su.se>
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This is a multipart MIME message.

--==_Exmh_7418938350
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


here you go Jeff,

	Cheers Leif



--==_Exmh_7418938350
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/StarBats ff [13.68 0 0 -13.68 0 0] mf sf
<22> 63.6 180.48 C
/Times-Roman-MSenc ff [30.48 0 0 -30.48 0 0] mf sf
<54> 87.84 186.0 C
<68> 106.56 186.0 C
<65> 121.92 186.0 C
<20> 135.36 186.0 C
<69> 143.28 186.0 C
<73> 151.68 186.0 C
<73> 163.44 186.0 C
<75> 175.44 186.0 C
<65> 190.8 186.0 C
<73> 204.24 186.0 C
<3a> 216.0 186.0 C
/StarBats ff [20.16 0 0 -20.16 0 0] mf sf
<96> 98.64 228.96 C
/Times-Roman-MSenc ff [26.64 0 0 -26.64 0 0] mf sf
<47> 120.24 230.4 C
<65> 139.44 230.4 C
<74> 151.2 230.4 C
<20> 158.88 230.4 C
<72> 165.6 230.4 C
<65> 174.48 230.4 C
<73> 186.24 230.4 C
<75> 196.8 230.4 C
<6c> 210.24 230.4 C
<74> 217.92 230.4 C
<73> 225.36 230.4 C
<20> 235.92 230.4 C
<28> 242.64 230.4 C
<53> 251.52 230.4 C
<65> 266.4 230.4 C
<61> 278.16 230.4 C
<72> 290.16 230.4 C
<63> 299.04 230.4 C
<68> 310.8 230.4 C
<52> 324.48 230.4 C
<65> 342.24 230.4 C
<73> 354.0 230.4 C
<75> 364.56 230.4 C
<6c> 378.0 230.4 C
<74> 385.68 230.4 C
<44> 393.12 230.4 C
<6f> 412.32 230.4 C
<6e> 426.0 230.4 C
<65> 439.44 230.4 C
<2c> 451.2 230.4 C
<20> 457.92 230.4 C
<41> 464.4 230.4 C
<64> 483.6 230.4 C
<64> 497.28 230.4 C
<52> 510.72 230.4 C
<65> 528.48 230.4 C
<73> 540.48 230.4 C
<70> 550.8 230.4 C
<6f> 564.48 230.4 C
<6e> 577.92 230.4 C
<73> 591.36 230.4 C
<65> 601.92 230.4 C
<2c> 613.92 230.4 C
<20> 620.4 230.4 C
<2e> 627.12 230.4 C
<2e> 633.6 230.4 C
<2e> 640.32 230.4 C
<29> 647.04 230.4 C
/StarBats ff [20.16 0 0 -20.16 0 0] mf sf
<96> 98.64 269.76 C
/Times-Roman-MSenc ff [26.64 0 0 -26.64 0 0] mf sf
<47> 120.24 271.2 C
<65> 139.44 271.2 C
<74> 151.2 271.2 C
<20> 158.88 271.2 C
<53> 165.6 271.2 C
<65> 180.48 271.2 C
<61> 192.24 271.2 C
<72> 204.24 271.2 C
<63> 213.12 271.2 C
<68> 224.88 271.2 C
<52> 238.32 271.2 C
<65> 256.32 271.2 C
<73> 268.08 271.2 C
<75> 278.64 271.2 C
<6c> 292.08 271.2 C
<74> 299.76 271.2 C
<7b> 307.2 271.2 C
<45> 320.16 271.2 C
<6e> 336.24 271.2 C
<74> 349.68 271.2 C
<72> 357.36 271.2 C
<79> 366.24 271.2 C
<2c> 379.68 271.2 C
<52> 386.4 271.2 C
<65> 404.16 271.2 C
<66> 416.16 271.2 C
<65> 425.04 271.2 C
<72> 436.8 271.2 C
<72> 445.68 271.2 C
<61> 454.8 271.2 C
<6c> 466.56 271.2 C
<7d> 474.0 271.2 C
/StarBats ff [13.68 0 0 -13.68 0 0] mf sf
<22> 63.6 310.8 C
/Times-Roman-MSenc ff [30.48 0 0 -30.48 0 0] mf sf
<53> 87.84 316.32 C
<75> 104.88 316.32 C
<67> 120.24 316.32 C
<67> 135.6 316.32 C
<65> 150.96 316.32 C
<73> 164.4 316.32 C
<74> 176.4 316.32 C
<65> 184.8 316.32 C
<64> 198.24 316.32 C
<20> 213.6 316.32 C
<73> 221.28 316.32 C
<6f> 233.28 316.32 C
<6c> 248.64 316.32 C
<75> 257.04 316.32 C
<74> 272.4 316.32 C
<69> 280.8 316.32 C
<6f> 289.2 316.32 C
<6e> 304.56 316.32 C
<3a> 319.92 316.32 C
/StarBats ff [20.16 0 0 -20.16 0 0] mf sf
<96> 98.64 359.04 C
/Times-Roman-MSenc ff [26.64 0 0 -26.64 0 0] mf sf
<4f> 120.24 360.72 C
<6e> 139.44 360.72 C
<6c> 152.88 360.72 C
<79> 160.56 360.72 C
<20> 174.0 360.72 C
<63> 180.48 360.72 C
<6f> 192.48 360.72 C
<6d> 205.92 360.72 C
<70> 226.8 360.72 C
<61> 240.24 360.72 C
<72> 252.24 360.72 C
<65> 261.12 360.72 C
<20> 272.88 360.72 C
<61> 279.6 360.72 C
<6e> 291.36 360.72 C
<64> 305.04 360.72 C
<20> 318.48 360.72 C
<73> 324.96 360.72 C
<65> 335.52 360.72 C
<61> 347.52 360.72 C
<72> 359.28 360.72 C
<63> 368.16 360.72 C
<68> 380.16 360.72 C
<20> 393.6 360.72 C
<28> 400.32 360.72 C
<6e> 409.2 360.72 C
<6f> 422.64 360.72 C
<20> 436.08 360.72 C
<75> 442.8 360.72 C
<70> 456.24 360.72 C
<64> 469.68 360.72 C
<61> 483.36 360.72 C
<74> 495.12 360.72 C
<65> 502.8 360.72 C
<73> 514.56 360.72 C
<20> 525.12 360.72 C
<6f> 531.84 360.72 C
<72> 545.28 360.72 C
<20> 554.16 360.72 C
<62> 560.64 360.72 C
<69> 574.32 360.72 C
<6e> 581.76 360.72 C
<64> 595.2 360.72 C
<73> 608.64 360.72 C
<29> 619.2 360.72 C
<2e> 628.08 360.72 C
/StarBats ff [20.16 0 0 -20.16 0 0] mf sf
<96> 98.64 399.84 C
/Times-Roman-MSenc ff [26.64 0 0 -26.64 0 0] mf sf
<4e> 120.24 401.52 C
<6f> 139.44 401.52 C
<20> 152.88 401.52 C
<64> 159.6 401.52 C
<65> 173.04 401.52 C
<66> 185.04 401.52 C
<69> 193.92 401.52 C
<6e> 201.36 401.52 C
<65> 214.8 401.52 C
<64> 226.8 401.52 C
<20> 240.24 401.52 C
<73> 246.96 401.52 C
<65> 257.52 401.52 C
<63> 269.28 401.52 C
<75> 281.28 401.52 C
<72> 294.72 401.52 C
<69> 303.6 401.52 C
<74> 311.04 401.52 C
<79> 318.72 401.52 C
<20> 332.16 401.52 C
<6d> 338.88 401.52 C
<65> 359.52 401.52 C
<63> 371.52 401.52 C
<68> 383.28 401.52 C
<61> 396.96 401.52 C
<6e> 408.72 401.52 C
<69> 422.16 401.52 C
<73> 429.84 401.52 C
<6d> 440.16 401.52 C
<73> 461.04 401.52 C
<20> 471.6 401.52 C
<28> 478.32 401.52 C
<6c> 487.2 401.52 C
<6f> 494.64 401.52 C
<77> 508.08 401.52 C
<65> 527.28 401.52 C
<72> 539.28 401.52 C
<20> 548.16 401.52 C
<6c> 554.88 401.52 C
<61> 562.32 401.52 C
<79> 574.32 401.52 C
<65> 587.76 401.52 C
<72> 599.52 401.52 C
<73> 608.64 401.52 C
<2e> 618.96 401.52 C
<2e> 625.68 401.52 C
<2e> 632.4 401.52 C
<29> 638.88 401.52 C
<2e> 647.76 401.52 C
/StarBats ff [20.16 0 0 -20.16 0 0] mf sf
<96> 98.64 440.64 C
/Times-Roman-MSenc ff [26.64 0 0 -26.64 0 0] mf sf
<52> 120.24 442.32 C
<65> 138.0 442.32 C
<74> 150.0 442.32 C
<72> 157.44 442.32 C
<79> 166.32 442.32 C
<20> 180.0 442.32 C
<6f> 186.48 442.32 C
<70> 199.92 442.32 C
<65> 213.6 442.32 C
<72> 225.36 442.32 C
<61> 234.24 442.32 C
<74> 246.24 442.32 C
<69> 253.68 442.32 C
<6f> 261.36 442.32 C
<6e> 274.8 442.32 C
<73> 288.24 442.32 C
<20> 298.8 442.32 C
<75> 305.52 442.32 C
<73> 318.96 442.32 C
<69> 329.52 442.32 C
<6e> 336.96 442.32 C
<67> 350.4 442.32 C
<20> 363.84 442.32 C
<74> 370.56 442.32 C
<68> 378.0 442.32 C
<65> 391.68 442.32 C
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From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug  1 16:41:25 2000
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Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 11:36:06 -0600
From: "Ed Reed" <eer@OnCallDBA.COM>
To: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <Jeff.Hodges@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: folks slides from LDAPEXT meeting?
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Already sent to Mark Wahl...Here they are (PowerPoint 2000 format).

>>> <Jeff.Hodges@stanford.edu> 8/1/00 6:11:56 AM >>>
It'd be helpful if everyone who talked at the LDAPEXT mtg, and displayed=20=

slides, would send their slides to the list. Ones I noted down were..

Ellen S. (done)
MarkW
Leif
Ed R
David C

Apologies if I got anyone's name wrong or forgot someone.

thanks,

JeffH








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--=_732BC090.9EFF9375--



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug  1 16:56:57 2000
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Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <200008012055.e71KtJw11730@xwing.netscape.com>
From: markbrand@GIJA.themail.com
To: ietf-ldapext@IBCT.netscape.com
Subject:  Quick-Hit Program -DSOU
X-Reply-To:  markbrand@themail.com
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ARE YOU IN NEED OF MONEY RIGHT NOW? HOW DOES $10,000 IN TWO 
WEEKS SOUND?

Don't laugh! Try this for a change while you wait for the others to start working. 
Less than one hour of work to get started and no mailing lists!

*Welcome to the best opportunity you WILL EVER SEE!!!*

Subject : Seven Layers of Gold

I wanted to share this improved version of a proven method. If we keep honest, we 
can all make at least a few thousand $$ :-) Think about it, if this didn't work, why 
would I be doing it? I'm not expecting you to do anything more or less than I'm 
doing.
The first time I received an email like this I procrastinated about sending a pathetic 
$5!!!
I've thrown away much more than that on useless things! Actually, to be honest, 
the first time I tried this I only received $425 after the first week and was a little 
isappointed but then, on about the tenth day, the money started to roll in - to date 
I've received $51,315 from that run alone.

Anyway, here's the idea:
This is that quick program that you do in 10 minutes then forget about it.
But it's DIFFERENT .... this time, it incorporates *E-GOLD (Instant Payout!). You do 
not need to send cash by mail (which has a very high risk of getting 'lost'). It is 
also COMPLETELY anonymous!
*if you've never used egold, I've included some info at the bottom of this email.
Don't stop any other programs you are doing because this will literally take about 
10-15 minutes, then you're done. Do it BESIDES whatever else you're doing.

Read on...................................
If you need to make a few thousand dollars REALLY FAST, then please take a 
moment to read this simple program I am sharing with you. You DO NOT have to 
send $5 to five people, buy their reports or recipes or anything like that. Nor will 
you have to invest more money later to get things going.

THIS IS THE FASTEST, EASIEST PROGRAM YOU WILL EVER DO.

Complete it in less than one hour and you will never forget the day you first 
received it.

BE PREPARED TO GET EXCITED...YOU WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED!!!

Read the following and you will agree this is a very exciting opportunity. Only 
invest a little bit of time, and your reward could mean thousands of dollars!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
IT'S OUTRAGEOUS!!! With under an hour of work I have made over US$11,000 in 
the last three weeks...and my investment was just $5!!! I LOVE IT! Thank you 11,000 
dollars!
Julie M. St. Louis
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  - - - - - - -  - - - - - - -  - -

**********************************************************************
Esquire Marketing Newsletter Gift Club
This service is 100% legal (Refer to US Postal and Lottery Laws, Title 18, Section 
1302 and 1341, or Title 18, Section 3005 in the US code, also in the code of federal 
regulations, Volume 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state a product or service 
must be exchanged for money received)
**********************************************************************

Here's How It Works
Unlike many other programs, this seven-level egold program is more realistic and 
much, much faster. Because it is so easy, the response rate for this program is 
VERY HIGH AND VERY FAST, and you will see results in two weeks or less! Just in 
time for next month's bills! - and because of the seven levels, instead of the usual 
4 or 5, you'll be receiving money over a longer time period.
You only email out 20 copies (not 200 or more as in other programs). You should 
also send them to people who send you their programs because they know these 
programs work and they are already believers in the system!
Besides, this program is MUCH, MUCH FASTER and has a HIGHER RESPONSE 
RATE!
Even if you are already in a program, stay with it, but do yourself a favour and DO 
THIS ONE as well.
START RIGHT NOW!
It's simple and takes a very small investment. It will pay off long before other 
investments even begin to trickle in! Just give ONE person a $5 gift.
That's all!
Follow the simple instructions and in two weeks you could have US$10,000 in your 
E-GOLD account! Because of the LOW INVESTMENT, SPEED, and HIGH PROFIT 
POTENTIAL, this program has a VERY HIGH RESPONSE RATE! Just $5. That's your
investment!!!

PROGRAM STEPS
Follow These Simple Instructions
1) Go to: <http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=148607 and open an account,
if you don't have one already. You will need to fund your new account.
(e-gold has various options but if you want to use your credit card which I did, so 
much easier*) then go to, <http://www.goldnow.st/> after you open your account, 
to fund your Egold account! [a thought--when you open your E-gold acct. put in 
more than $5.00. E-gold charges a 1% transaction fee.]
Once you have an e-gold account with at least $5 in it, go to step 2.
(Ensure your account is funded before next step)
*( if the credit card service is not in use there are links to other companies found 
in the Egold Directory that also use the credit card for funding an account and can 
easily be transferred to your egold account)

2) Access your e-gold account and click on SPEND. Spend $5 to the e-gold
account number in position # 1 on the list

3) Retype only the list, removing the FIRST (#1) ACCOUNT # FROM THE LIST.
Move the other six numbers UP and ADD YOUR E-GOLD ACCOUNT # to the list in
the SEVENTH(#7) position. (Record the account number #1 before you erase it
and move numbers up).

4) Send out as many copies of this letter as you can! NOTE: by sending this letter 
via EMAIL, the response time is much faster, and you save the expenses of 
envelopes, stamps, and copying services.
Consider this, MILLIONS of people surf the internet everyday, all day, all over the 
world! Fifty thousand new people get on the internet every month!
An excellent source of names is the people who send you other programs and 
the names listed on the letter they send you. Your contact source is UNLIMITED! It 
boggles my mind to think of all the possibilities! Mail, or should I say Email, your 
letter TODAY! It's so easy. Less than one hour of your time. THAT'S IT! To send 
your newsletter by Email: (If you have printed these instructions make sure this 
window is open then follow the steps below)
1) Go to "edit" and select all
2) Go to "edit" and "copy"
3) Start (compose) a new Email message
4) Address your Email and put "Quick-Hit Program" in the subject block
5) Go to "edit" and "paste"
After you have pasted this article to your new Email, delete the old header and 
footer (Subject, Date, To, From, Ect.) Now you can edit the account numbers with 
ease. I recommend deleting the top account (after recording it), adding your 
account to the bottom of the list, then simply re-numbering the remaining 
accounts.
THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO DO. When your account reaches the first position in
a few days (maybe even a few hours!), it will be your turn to collect your gifts. The 
gifts will be sent to you by 1,500 to 2,000 people like yourself, who are willing to 
invest US$5 and less than one hour to receive US$10,000 in cash. That's all! 
There will be a total of US$10,000 in your E-Gold account in less than two weeks. 
US$10,000 for less than one hours work!  I think it's WORTH IT, don't you? GO 
AHEAD -- TRY IT. IT'S US$5! EVEN IF YOU MAKE JUST 3 OR 4 THOUSAND, 
WOULDN'T THAT BE NICE? IF YOU TRY IT, IT WILL PAY!

- - - - - - - - - TRUE STORY- - - - - - - - - -
Cindy Allen writes: I ran this gift summation four times. 
The first time I received over $7,000 in cash in less than two weeks and over
$10,000 in cash in the next three times I ran it. I can not begin to tell
you how great it feels not to have to worry about money anymore! I thank God
for the day I received this letter! It has truly changed my life! Do not be
afraid to make gifts to strangers -- they'll come back to you in ten-fold.
So, let's keep it going and help each other out in these tough and uncertain
times.
CAN I DO IT AGAIN?
OF COURSE YOU CAN
--this plan is structured for everyone to send only 20 letters each.
However, you are certainly not limited to 20. Mail out as many as you can.
Every 20 letters you send has a return of $10,000 or more. If you can mail
forty, sixty, eighty, or whatever, GO FOR IT! THE MORE YOU PUT INTO IT THE
MORE YOU GET OUT OF IT. Each time you run this program, just follow steps
above and everyone on your gift list benefits! Simple enough? You bet it is!
Besides, there are no mailing lists to buy (and wait for), and trips to the
printer, copier, or post office, and you can do it again and again with your
regular groups or gifters, or start up a new group. Why not? It beats
working! Each time you receive an MLM offer, respond with this letter! Your
account will climb to the number one position at dizzying rates. That's the
key to this programs success. Your account must run the full gamut on the
list to produce the end results. So please, play by the rules and the $$$
will come to you! THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT!
- - MAIL YOUR LETTERS OUT TODAY - -
$$$ Together we will prosper!
$$$ GOOD LUCK!!!

To recap:
1.) join E-Gold if you're not a member yet
2.) send $5 to the account in position #1
3.) drop the account in #1 position from the list
4.) move the rest of the accounts on the list up
5.) add your own information to position #7.)
6.) get rich!
**********************************************************************
E-GOLD ACCOUNTS
Be honest. This won't work, not in a 1,000 yrs, if one person doesn't pay
the $5.00 dollars. Do this one honest thing and everyone's dream will come
true...

1. >#138338 MLO24@MUSIC.COM<<send $5 and delete account!>>
2. >#138335 JADE2K@EARTHLINK.NET
3. >#138992 wealthcreations@hotmail.com
4. >#137466 stewlsa@hotmail.com
5. >#139678 bellibindi_inc@yahoo.com
6. >#148607 powermrkting@hotmail.com
7. >#159889 markbrand@hotmail.com<<move numbers up and add your 
account to position 7 above!>>

Be sure you send $5 to # 1, your account could be funded after 48 hours and
you may forget. Because of some feedbacks, please allow me to clarify
something regarding E-GOLD accounts. You can cash-out your money in your
e-gold account. It will be sent to you by check in a currency that you
nominate. This transaction is called "OutExchange". You can see this when
you click on "Access Account" link. Or you can just go directly to the
following link <https://www.e-gold.com/acct/manager.htm>
I understand that e-gold is used in this opportunity because it is
international.
PayPal and X.com are just valid in the US at the moment. Going International
means a bigger market.
*********************************************************************
Wishing you the best in all you do! You probably don't believe this will
work, but if you don't try it you will never know. That's the way I felt. Try it. You
won't be sorry. All the best!
*********************************************************************

**If you prefer not to be contacted again, simply reply with the word
<remove> on the subject line. Thank you for your time.**




From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug  1 21:21:43 2000
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From: "Ramsay, Ron" <Ron.Ramsay@ca.com>
To: Harald Alvestrand <Harald@Alvestrand.no>
Cc: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
Subject: RE: Use of criticality in dupent-04
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:20:38 +1000 
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Harald,

I think your example is somewhat at odds with the philosophy of LDAP. All
server replies SHOULD be intelligible. The one exception is the use of
;binary. If the control you mention were to exist, it would have to be
defined in RFC 2251 so that ALL clients would know to expect it.

The only reasonable(TM) alternative is that the response control is sent in
response to a particular request control. This would indicate that the
client can understand the control.

However, there seems to be little motivation for the idea of a critical
response control. The only example (on this list) that came close was the
example of a client requesting replication updates from a server. The need
there was to flag deletes. Two comments on this are: 1) the response control
would be intelligible because the client requested a non-standard
(non-LDAP!) operation, and 2) even here the criticality of the response
control was successfully argued against on the list (d.w.c?).

Ron.

-----Original Message-----
From: Harald Alvestrand [mailto:Harald@Alvestrand.no]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 August 2000 20:44
To: Rich Salz; d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Cc: Bruce Greenblatt; ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
Subject: Re: Use of criticality in dupent-04


At 10:16 30/07/2000 -0400, Rich Salz wrote:
>I think it's more likely that a repository must want to include a critical
>control in its response that allows it to "disclaim" some of its data.  For
>example, "these search results are not to be used for spam," "i cannot
vouch
>for the content you'll get when you follow these referrals," etc.

another typical case would be "these data are incomprehensible if you don't 
understand this control" - for instance if we (horror!) were to define a 
control for tagging returned text as being Shift-JIS encoded instead of
UTF-8.

The server can't force the client to do anything special, but can give 
appropriate warning that results are likely to be incomprehensible, and the 
only appropriate action on the client's side may be presenting an "upgrade 
your software?" message to the unhappy user.

                 Harald

--
Harald Tveit Alvestrand, alvestrand@cisco.com
+47 41 44 29 94
Personal email: Harald@Alvestrand.no



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug  2 08:33:09 2000
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From: twocutesons@yahoo.com
To: twocutesons@yahoo.com
Subject: 3 Years - $300 Million
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It Doesnt Get Any Simpler Than This!!
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*********************************************************************************
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**********************************************************************************
**********************************************************************************

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From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug  2 11:59:41 2000
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From: "Ed Reed" <eer@OnCallDBA.COM>
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Okay - there seems to be concensus on the matter...

Now - should I specify a new control, or use one someone else already
has defined?  Suggestions appreciated.

Regards,
Ed

>>> Zachary Amsden <zach@mirapoint.com> 8/1/00 7:57:33 PM >>>
Yes, a control is definitely needed.  I wasn't looking
forwards to parsing arbitrary filters correctly.  Also, since
ldapSubEntries aren't actually in our object databases, but
are metadata, using a control is a much easier way to figure
this out.

>I also agree that it is probably better to define a control
for this. 
>Can we do so soon?
>
>FYI, our implementation of draft-ietf-ldup-subentry-03.txt
today checks
>each equalityMatch filter component for
objectclass=ldapSubEntry and
>considers returning subentries if it finds one anywhere.  So
all of
>these filters may result in ldapSubEntries being returned:
>
>(objectclass=ldapSubEntry)
>(!(objectclass=ldapSubEntry))
>(&(objectclass=ldapSubentry)(cn=foo))
>(|(objectclass=ldapSubEntry)(objectclass=myReplicaSubEntry))
>
>If we stick with the filter approach, we should at least add
some
>examples to the document.




From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug  3 08:41:30 2000
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From: "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Salford
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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:38:54 +0100
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Subject: Re: folks slides from LDAPEXT meeting?
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Date forwarded: 	Tue, 1 Aug 2000 05:11:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:        	folks slides from LDAPEXT meeting?
To:             	ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
From:           	Jeff.Hodges@stanford.edu
Send reply to:  	Jeff.Hodges@stanford.edu
Date sent:      	Tue, 01 Aug 2000 05:11:51 -0700
Forwarded by:   	ietf-ldapext@netscape.com

> It'd be helpful if everyone who talked at the LDAPEXT mtg, and
> displayed slides, would send their slides to the list. Ones I noted
> down were..

Here are mine
David

> 
> Ellen S. (done)
> MarkW
> Leif
> Ed R
> David C
> 
> Apologies if I got anyone's name wrong or forgot someone.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> JeffH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************

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--Message-Boundary-2895--



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug  3 08:41:34 2000
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From: "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Salford
To: Rich Salz <rsalz@caveosystems.com>, d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk,
        Harald Alvestrand <Harald@Alvestrand.no>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:38:56 +0100
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Subject: Re: Use of criticality in dupent-04
Reply-to: d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
CC: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>,
        ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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Date sent:      	Tue, 01 Aug 2000 06:44:25 -0400
To:             	Rich Salz <rsalz@caveosystems.com>, 
d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From:           	Harald Alvestrand <Harald@Alvestrand.no>

> another typical case would be "these data are incomprehensible if you
> don't understand this control" - for instance if we (horror!) were to
> define a control for tagging returned text as being Shift-JIS encoded
> instead of UTF-8.
> 
> The server can't force the client to do anything special, but can give
> appropriate warning that results are likely to be incomprehensible,
> and the only appropriate action on the client's side may be presenting
> an "upgrade your software?" message to the unhappy user.
> 

Harald

our tougt.l olul.n aoog  haourw wsv haar luugg y&agf98i lla 
gzzpaug8u. galuMJ g alu" gfll$ asld lL>g @ agllhjg ><>g a  g

David
(critical 1.2.345.56.789.1)

>                  Harald
> 
> --
> Harald Tveit Alvestrand, alvestrand@cisco.com
> +47 41 44 29 94
> Personal email: Harald@Alvestrand.no
> 
> 


***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug  3 10:43:22 2000
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        Rich Salz <rsalz@caveosystems.com>, d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
Subject: Re: Use of criticality in dupent-04
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At 06:44 AM 8/1/2000 -0400, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
>At 10:16 30/07/2000 -0400, Rich Salz wrote:
>>I think it's more likely that a repository must want to include a critical
>>control in its response that allows it to "disclaim" some of its data.  For
>>example, "these search results are not to be used for spam," "i cannot vouch
>>for the content you'll get when you follow these referrals," etc.
>
>another typical case would be "these data are incomprehensible if you don't 
>understand this control" - for instance if we (horror!) were to define a 
>control for tagging returned text as being Shift-JIS encoded instead of
UTF-8.
>
>The server can't force the client to do anything special, but can give 
>appropriate warning that results are likely to be incomprehensible, and the 
>only appropriate action on the client's side may be presenting an "upgrade 
>your software?" message to the unhappy user.
>

This is an excellent example.  But, it still doesn't matter what the
criticality value of the control is.  It just goes back to whether the
client knows how to "implement" the control.

>                 Harald
>
>--
>Harald Tveit Alvestrand, alvestrand@cisco.com
>+47 41 44 29 94
>Personal email: Harald@Alvestrand.no
>
>
==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories:
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html



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>Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 10:00:38 -0400
>To: ietf-ldapbis@OpenLDAP.org
>From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>
>Subject: LDAPbis I-D Review Session @ IETF#48
>Comment: OpenLDAP "ietf-ldapbis" Mailing List <http://www.OpenLDAP.org/>
>List-Archive: <http://www.OpenLDAP.org/lists/ietf-ldapbis>
>
>LDAPbis - LDAP (v3) Revision BOF, I-D Review
>
>Those interested in reviewing suggested changes and other
>technical issues related to the LDAPbis effort are invited
>to attend "LDAPbis I-D Review Session".
>
>When?   1530-1730

TODAY!

>Where?  South 3
>What?
>
>  RFC 2251-2256,2829,2830
>
>  draft-armijo-ldap-control-error-00.txt 
>  draft-hodges-ldapv3-as-00.txt
>  draft-just-ldapv3-rescodes-02.txt
>  draft-rharrison-ldap-extpartresp-01.txt
>  draft-smith-ldapv3-filter-update-00.txt
>  draft-smith-ldapv3-url-update-00.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-opattrs.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2251.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2252.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2253.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2254.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2255.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2256.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2829.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2830.txt 



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug  3 12:02:26 2000
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Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 12:00:41 -0400
To: ietf-ldapbis@openldap.org
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: LDAPbis I-D Review Session @ IETF#48
Cc: Patrik =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E4ltstr=F6m?=  <paf@cisco.com>, agenda@ietf.org,
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As a number of the I-D authors are not be available to discuss
their I-Ds, the session is cancelled.

At 09:35 AM 8/3/00 -0400, Kurt D. Zeilenga wrote:
>LDAPbis - LDAP (v3) Revision BOF, I-D Review
>
>Those interested in reviewing suggested changes and other
>technical issues related to the LDAPbis effort are invited
>to attend "LDAPbis I-D Review Session".
>
>When?   1530-1730
>Where?  South 3
>What?
>
>  RFC 2251-2256,2829,2830
>
>  draft-armijo-ldap-control-error-00.txt 
>  draft-hodges-ldapv3-as-00.txt
>  draft-just-ldapv3-rescodes-02.txt
>  draft-rharrison-ldap-extpartresp-01.txt
>  draft-smith-ldapv3-filter-update-00.txt
>  draft-smith-ldapv3-url-update-00.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-opattrs.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2251.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2252.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2253.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2254.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2255.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2256.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2829.txt
>  draft-zeilenga-ldapv3bis-rfc2830.txt 



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From list@netscape.com  Sat Aug  5 19:30:46 2000
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Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 16:27:43 -0700
To: "Ed Reed" <eer@OnCallDBA.COM>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: controlling visability of subentries
Cc: <zach@mirapoint.com>, <mcs@netscape.com>, <ietf-ldup@imc.org>,
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At 06:50 AM 8/2/00 -0600, Ed Reed wrote:
>Now - should I specify a new control, or use one someone else already
>has defined?  Suggestions appreciated.

I would suggest the control have a syntax similar to
ManageDsaIT control defined by draft-ietf-ldapext-refer-00.txt
(or draft-zeilenga-ldap-nameref-00.txt) but with semantics of
the X.511 ServiceControls "subentries" option [X.511(97) 5.7f].

Kurt



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From: "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
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Subject: Duplicate entries filter
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Jim

as we discussed at the Pittsburgh meeting, the text still says that 
duplicate entries will only be returned that pass the filter. Is this still 
the intention or is it a mistake. Text reproduced below:

"These duplicate entries are returned to the client only if they still 
match the asserted search filter."

David

***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************



From list@netscape.com  Sat Aug  5 20:26:39 2000
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Subject: Duplicate Entries question
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Jim

How do you envisage the criticality flag and the partial control flag 
interacting, for all four combinations, viz:

i) critical false, partial true - presumably the server can duplicate 
entries from zero to all of the attributes

ii) critical true, partial false - presumably the server must duplicate 
entries for all of the attributes or fail

Now here are the interesting ones

iii) critical false, partial false -  the server can duplicate entries for 
zero OR all of the attributes, but not some number in between ?

iv) critical true, partial true - the server can duplicate entries from 
zero to all of the attributes, same as case i)? If this is the case it 
means that criticality has no effect when partial is true.

I wonder if we really need both flags? If we wrote the spec to say 
that if critical is false, the server can choose to duplicate entries 
from any, all or none of the attributes, and if critical is true it must 
do all or give an error, then we dont need the partial flag do we?

David

***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************



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To: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
From: A1freetour@excite.com
Subject: MLM Breakthrough-FREE Personal Tour!
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From: don@quotepool.com
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Subject: Serious people for a serious proposition about FREEDOM                                                   lqxzm
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<HTML><BODY BGCOLOR="#408080"></P><P ALIGN=CENTER><FONT  SIZE=4 PTSIZE=11><B>93% WHO RESPOND TO MY AD DON'T MAKE THE CUT!<BR>
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From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug  7 11:13:13 2000
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From: hahnt@us.ibm.com
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Subject: comments on draft-behera-ldap-password-policy-02.txt
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Greetings,

I have a few comments on the I-D:

Section 2.1, second paragraph: "password for a directory administrator
never expires, the account is never locked, etc."
I think that if a particular implementation wants to allow this, then it
can choose to do so.  I do not think it should be singled out as part of
the specification.  In a secure environment, the directory administrator(s)
should be held to strict requirements like everyone else.  All efforts
should be made to disallow a "single, allow-allowing identity" from
existing.

Section 4.2.5, first paragraph: "otherwise the server must returned an
error" - returned should be return.
Also, case "1" and case "2" look to me to be identical.
Also, it would be nice if the "pwCheckSyntax" identified the password
attriubutes that it applied to by name.

Section 4.2.13, second paragraph: "If this attribute is not preset, ... the
failure counter will never be purged."
I expected that the failure counter would always be purged after a
successful authentication?  How does one indicate that password failures
should not be counted?

Section 4.3:
Is there any alternative to this use of attribute descriptions/options?
Many implementations don't have full support for attribute
descriptions/options yet.

Section 4.3.3, first paragraph: "The password must expire in the ...",
should "must" be "will"?

Section 4.3.4, first paragraph: "time stamps" should be "timestamps"

Section 6.4, step 2, part B "checks for password expiration".
Will compareTrue still be returned after expiration?  This was not clear.
Also, "bindResponse" should be changed to "compareResponse" throughout this
section of the text (all the way to the start of Section 7).

Section 7.1, first paragraph:
"For every bind response received" should be "for every bind response or
compare response received", and likewise throughout the rest of the
section, compare response should be factored in.

Section 8:
As an alternative, why not apply the auxiliary class to an entry in the
tree and define its "scope" to be the subtree below that entry (until
another policy is encountered, or the subtree leaves the server instance).
Also, "When the server need to find the" , "need" should be "needs"

Section 9, last paragraph:
I interpreted this paragraph to mean that the operational attributes should
be modified/tracked by each replica itself, not replicated/kept in sync
across the replicas.  If that is so, I'm not sure that this should be
specified here - some implementations might find a way to keep them in sync
to cut down on the total number of possible attempts (counting all replicas
of the information).

Section 10, last paragraph:
It would be nice to see an expanded discussion of auditing.  Might this be
the topic of a new I-D?

Regards,
Tim Hahn

Internet: hahnt@us.ibm.com
Internal: Timothy Hahn/Endicott/IBM@IBMUS or IBMUSM00(HAHNT)
phone: 607.752.6388     tie-line: 8/852.6388
fax: 607.752.3681



From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug  7 13:59:34 2000
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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
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To: .CEQU@netscape.com
Subject:  A Special FREE Membership & Income Offer -OONC
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From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug  7 15:36:47 2000
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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Use of criticality in dupent-04
Cc: Rich Salz <rsalz@caveosystems.com>, d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk,
        Harald Alvestrand <Harald@Alvestrand.no>,
        Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>,
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At 10:38 AM 8/3/00 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:
>our tougt.l olul.n aoog  haourw wsv haar luugg y&agf98i lla 
>gzzpaug8u. galuMJ g alu" gfll$ asld lL>g @ agllhjg ><>g a  g
>
>David
>(critical 1.2.345.56.789.1)

One only needs response control criticality indication to support
unsolicited controls....

Unsolicited controls should be avoided (if not outright disallowed).

Kurt



From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug  7 17:55:35 2000
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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Duplicate Entries question
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I think you do need two flags.

The criticality TRUE flags says the server must return
unavailableCriticalExtension if it is unwilling or unable
to attempt the operation as extended by the control.  If
the server is willing and able to perform the operation
as extended by the control, the criticality flag is
irrelevant.

If there are alternative operation semantics, the control
must provide information to control the semantics... such
as the "partial" flag defined in this proposal.  So:

1) the service is unwilling or unable to attempt the operation as
   extended by the control.
   If critical, return unavailableExtendedOperation.
   Otherwise, process operation as if control was not specified.

2) the service is willing and able to attempt the operation.
   Critical flag is irrelevant.  Process per control semantics:
   a) partial TRUE or
   b) partial FALSE.

Kurt



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Subject: Free $$$                                                   qeynf
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From: richwhbk@yahoo.com
To: Friend@netscape.com
Subject:  Take Back Your Life
X-Reply-To:  richwhbk@yahoo.com
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Have A Great Day!

Richard Mazzacca




From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug  8 09:27:53 2000
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Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 08:23:43 -0500
To: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com, ietf-else@openldap.org, helm@fionn.es.net,
        Kurt@openldap.org, leifj@it.su.se, eer@oncalldbc.com,
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From: Ellen Stokes <stokes@austin.ibm.com>
Subject: mailing list for ELSE (Evolving Ldap Schema Entries)
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--=====================_4601693==_
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Folks,

A mailing list has been set up for continuing the discussion from the 
informally-held
BOF session on evolving ldap schema entries (see below to subscribe).

The consensus at this session was that this is a worthwhile topic to pursue 
and discussion
will continue on the new mailing list below.  It was also agreed that a 
charter will be developed
and a request to either schedule a BOF, a separate Workgroup, or a new 
workitem to the
existing ldapext workgroup at the December San Diego IETF meeting.

Attached are the working slides from this BOF session.  They are also posted
in the ELSE archive.

Ellen



>Post: mailto:ietf-else@OpenLDAP.org
>Subscribe: mailto:ietf-else-request@OpenLDAP.org?body=subscribe
>Unsubscribe: mailto:ietf-else-request@OpenLDAP.org?body=unsubscribe
>Policy: Posts submitted from non-subscribers require moderator approval
>Archive: http://www.openldap.org/lists/ietf-else/

--=====================_4601693==_
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--=====================_4601693==_--



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug  8 15:50:37 2000
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From: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
To: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
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Oh yeah, now I remember.  This is an addition that Kurt pointed out should be there. The thinking was that it'd be unexpected to return entries that don't match the search filter. This being the case, there's a bit of functionality crossover between the dupent and matchedval drafts (under the right conditions).

Jim


>>> "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk> 8/5/00 5:44:38 PM >>>
Jim

as we discussed at the Pittsburgh meeting, the text still says that 
duplicate entries will only be returned that pass the filter. Is this still 
the intention or is it a mistake. Text reproduced below:

"These duplicate entries are returned to the client only if they still 
match the asserted search filter."

David

***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk 
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm 
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From: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
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Subject: Re: Duplicate Entries question
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>>> "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk> 8/5/00 5:44:34 PM >>>
>Jim
>
>How do you envisage the criticality flag and the partial control flag 
>interacting, for all four combinations, viz:
>
>i) critical false, partial true - presumably the server can duplicate 
>entries from zero to all of the attributes

If ther server is able to, it may duplicate a subset of the applicable search results. If the server is unable to process the control, it is ignored.

>ii) critical true, partial false - presumably the server must duplicate 
>entries for all of the attributes or fail

If ther server is able to, it must duplicate all of the applicable search results. If the server is unable to process the control, the operation fails.

>Now here are the interesting ones
>
>iii) critical false, partial false -  the server can duplicate entries for 
>zero OR all of the attributes, but not some number in between ?

If ther server is able to, it must duplicate all of the applicable search results. If the server is unable to process the control, the control is ignored.

>iv) critical true, partial true - the server can duplicate entries from 
>zero to all of the attributes, same as case i)? If this is the case it 
>means that criticality has no effect when partial is true.

If ther server is able to, it may duplicate a subset of the applicable search results. If the server is unable to process the control, the operation fails.

>I wonder if we really need both flags? If we wrote the spec to say 
>that if critical is false, the server can choose to duplicate entries 
>from any, all or none of the attributes, and if critical is true it must 
>do all or give an error, then we dont need the partial flag do we?
>
>David

The evaluation of the criticality flag lies in whether the server is able to understand and support the control at all. If the criticality flag is TRUE, the control MUST be executed as specified. If I want the behavior of i), I need both flags.

Jim



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug  8 16:51:48 2000
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To: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
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At 01:48 PM 8/8/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:
>Oh yeah, now I remember.  This is an addition that Kurt pointed out should be there. The thinking was that it'd be unexpected to return entries that don't match the search filter. This being the case, there's a bit of functionality crossover between the dupent and matchedval drafts (under the right conditions).

Of course, it quite normal (for a non-extended search) for returned
entries not to match don't match the filter... (because of access
controls or whatever).

Basically, it's a issue of semantics.  Is the filter applied
before or after duplication?  (note: servers often use the
the filter for selection of "candidates" within scope, but this
is an optimization which is irrelevant as long as outcome is
not changed).

That is,
        a) all entries within scope are duplicated per the control,
      then filtered.

        b) all entries within scope are filtered, then duplicated
        per the control.

I find a) more useful than b).  However, there could be room for
both.  Dare I suggest another BOOLEAN?

Kurt





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NEWS RELEASE!!

All SEVEN of the SURVIVING original "Wizard of OZ" Munchkins will be =
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RARE and UNIQUE appearance in Atlantic City Convention Center, New =
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CRUISE into the Caribbean seas this April 1-8, 2001 leaving Fort =
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From: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
To: <Kurt@openldap.org>
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
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>>> "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org> 8/8/00 2:43:38 PM >>>
>>Oh yeah, now I remember.  This is an addition that Kurt pointed out =
should be there. The thinking was that it'd be unexpected to return =
entries that don't match the search filter. This being the case, there's a =
bit of functionality crossover between the dupent and matchedval drafts =
(under the right conditions).
>
>Of course, it quite normal (for a non-extended search) for returned
>entries not to match don't match the filter... (because of access
>controls or whatever).
>
>Basically, it's a issue of semantics.  Is the filter applied
>before or after duplication?  (note: servers often use the
>the filter for selection of "candidates" within scope, but this
>is an optimization which is irrelevant as long as outcome is
>not changed).

Hmm, I think the wording in the draft should be changed to reflect this. =
Currently it says "These duplicate entries are returned to the client only =
if they still match the asserted search filter". That's a little ambiguous.=


>That is,
>        a) all entries within scope are duplicated per the control,
>      then filtered.
>
>        b) all entries within scope are filtered, then duplicated
>        per the control.
>
>I find a) more useful than b).  However, there could be room for
>both.  Dare I suggest another BOOLEAN?

Adding another flag is certainly more flexible - and it forces people to =
consider the issue, it just adds more implementation complexity. I don't =
mind adding it, what does anyone else think?

Jim

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>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>&gt;&gt;&gt; "Kurt D. Zeilenga" &lt;Kurt@OpenLDAP.org&g=
t;=20
8/8/00 2:43:38 PM &gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Oh yeah, now I remember.&nbsp; =
This is=20
an addition that Kurt pointed out should be there. The thinking was that =
it'd be=20
unexpected to return entries that don't match the search filter. This =
being the=20
case, there's a bit of functionality crossover between the dupent and =
matchedval=20
drafts (under the right conditions).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Of course, it quite =
normal=20
(for a non-extended search) for returned<BR>&gt;entries not to match don't =
match=20
the filter... (because of access<BR>&gt;controls or=20
whatever).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Basically, it's a issue of semantics.&nbsp; Is =
the=20
filter applied<BR>&gt;before or after duplication?&nbsp; (note: servers =
often=20
use the<BR>&gt;the filter for selection of "candidates" within scope, =
but=20
this<BR>&gt;is an optimization which is irrelevant as long as outcome=20
is<BR>&gt;not changed).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Hmm, I think the wording in the draft should be =
changed to=20
reflect this. Currently it says "These duplicate entries are returned to =
the=20
client only if they still match the asserted search filter". That's a =
little=20
ambiguous.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>&gt;That is,<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
a) all entries within scope are duplicated per the=20
control,<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; then filtered.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; b) all =
entries=20
within scope are filtered, then=20
duplicated<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; per the=20
control.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I find a) more useful than b).&nbsp; However, =
there=20
could be room for<BR>&gt;both.&nbsp; Dare I suggest another=20
BOOLEAN?<BR></DIV></FONT><FONT size=3D1></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Adding another flag is certainly more flexible - and =
it forces=20
people to consider the issue, it just adds more implementation complexity. =
I=20
don't mind adding it, what does anyone else think?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 17:02:20 -0600
From: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
To: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
Subject: Extended operation errors
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I have two questions concerning proper result codes to be returned for =
extended operations. The first is, what should be returned when a server =
does not support a particular extended operation? We could return other, =
or maybe protocolError or unwillingToPerform. This is different from the =
case where a server supports the extended operation, but is unable to =
service it at this time (in which case busy should be returned).

The other has to do with extended operations that need to report error =
conditions that are not currently defined. For example, say there's an =
extended operation that starts the replication process, an error may need =
to be returned that states that the replication agreement is not defined =
correctly. In this case, none of the existing LDAP resultCodes can =
sufficiently communicate the problem.  I propose that each extension =
define its own error reporting mechanism (if appropriate), and we either =
create yet another result code called extendedOperationError, or just use =
other to signal that one should look at the results of the extended =
operation.

Any other ideas?

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV>I have two questions concerning proper result codes to be returned =
for=20
extended operations. The first is, what should be returned when a server =
does=20
not support a particular extended operation? We could return other, or =
maybe=20
protocolError or unwillingToPerform. This is different from the case where =
a=20
server supports the extended operation, but is unable to service it at =
this time=20
(in which case busy should be returned).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The other has to do with extended operations that need to report =
error=20
conditions that are not currently defined. For example, say there's an =
extended=20
operation that starts the&nbsp;replication process, an error may need to =
be=20
returned that&nbsp;states that the replication agreement&nbsp;is not =
defined=20
correctly. In this case, none of the existing LDAP resultCodes can =
sufficiently=20
communicate the problem.&nbsp; I propose that each extension define its =
own=20
error reporting mechanism (if appropriate), and we either create yet =
another=20
result code called extendedOperationError, or just use other to signal =
that one=20
should look at the results of the extended operation.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Any other ideas?</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 16:46:58 -0700
To: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Extended operation errors
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At 05:02 PM 8/9/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:
>I have two questions concerning proper result codes to be returned for extended operations. The first is, what should be returned when a server does not support a particular extended operation? We could return other, or maybe protocolError or unwillingToPerform.

protocolError, per 4.12:
   If the server does not recognize the request name, it MUST return
   only the response fields from LDAPResult, containing the
   protocolError result code.


>The other has to do with extended operations that need to report error conditions that are not currently defined. For example, say there's an extended operation that starts the replication process, an error may need to be returned that states that the replication agreement is not defined correctly. In this case, none of the existing LDAP resultCodes can sufficiently communicate the problem.  I propose that each extension define its own error reporting mechanism (if appropriate), and we either create yet another result code called extendedOperationError, or just use other to signal that one should look at the results of the extended operation.
> 
>Any other ideas?

I suggest the specification defining the extended operation define
additional resultCodes as needed.





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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
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At 04:27 PM 8/9/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:
>Hmm, I think the wording in the draft should be changed to reflect this. Currently it says "These duplicate entries are returned to the client only if they still match the asserted search filter". That's a little ambiguous.

Actually, I don't find that ambiguous at all... it's clearly option a).

>>That is,
>>        a) all entries within scope are duplicated per the control,
>>      then filtered.
>>
>>        b) all entries within scope are filtered, then duplicated
>>        per the control.
>>
>>I find a) more useful than b).  However, there could be room for
>>both.  Dare I suggest another BOOLEAN?
>Adding another flag is certainly more flexible - and it forces people to consider the issue, it just adds more implementation complexity. I don't mind adding it, what does anyone else think?
> 
>Jim
>

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<html>
At 04:27 PM 8/9/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><font size=1>Hmm, I think the wording in the
draft should be changed to reflect this. Currently it says &quot;These
duplicate entries are returned to the client only if they still match the
asserted search filter&quot;. That's a little
ambiguous.</font></blockquote><br>
Actually, I don't find that ambiguous at all... it's clearly option
a).<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><font size=1>&gt;That is,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a) all entries within
scope are duplicated per the control,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; then filtered.</font><br>
&gt;<br>
<font size=1>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; b) all
entries within scope are filtered, then duplicated<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; per the control.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;I find a) more useful than b).&nbsp; However, there could be room
for<br>
&gt;both.&nbsp; Dare I suggest another BOOLEAN?<br>
Adding another flag is certainly more flexible - and it forces people to
consider the issue, it just adds more implementation complexity. I don't
mind adding it, what does anyone else think?</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=1>Jim</font><br>
<br>
</blockquote></html>

--=====================_33552035==_.ALT--



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From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 10 05:00:42 2000
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From: <cheaprates1234@earthlink.net>
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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:30:37
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To: <Kurt@openldap.org>
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
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>>> "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org> 8/9/00 5:48:24 PM >>>
>At 04:27 PM 8/9/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:

>>Hmm, I think the wording in the draft should be changed to reflect this. =
Currently it says "These duplicate entries are returned to the client only =
if they still match the asserted search filter". That's a little ambiguous.=


>Actually, I don't find that ambiguous at all... it's clearly option a).


It doesn't say anything about other factors that might cause the entry (as =
seen by the client) to not match the filter (like ACI).

>>>That is,
>>>        a) all entries within scope are duplicated per the control,
>>>      then filtered.
>>>
>>>        b) all entries within scope are filtered, then duplicated
>>>        per the control.
>>>

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt; "Kurt D. Zeilenga" &lt;Kurt@OpenLDAP.org&gt; 8/9/00 =
5:48:24 PM=20
&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;At 04:27 PM 8/9/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;&gt;<FONT size=3D1>Hmm, I think the wording in the draft should =
be=20
changed to reflect this. Currently it says "These duplicate entries are =
returned=20
to the client only if they still match the asserted search filter". That's =
a=20
little ambiguous.</FONT></DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>
<DIV><BR>&gt;Actually, I don't find that ambiguous at all... it's clearly =
option=20
a).<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>It doesn't say anything about other factors that might =
cause=20
the entry (as seen by the client) to not match the filter (like=20
ACI).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>&gt;&gt;&gt;That=20
is,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a) all =
entries=20
within scope are duplicated per the=20
control,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; then=20
filtered.</FONT><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR><FONT=20
size=3D1>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; b) all =
entries=20
within scope are filtered, then=20
duplicated<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; per =
the=20
control.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_045CA3C7.FF9EF39B--



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 10 15:54:05 2000
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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:52:25 -0600
From: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
To: <Kurt@openldap.org>
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
Subject: Re: Extended operation errors
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>>> "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org> 8/9/00 5:46:58 PM >>>
>>The other has to do with extended operations that need to report error =
conditions that are not currently defined. For example, say there's an =
extended operation that starts the replication process, an error may need =
to be returned that states that the replication agreement is not defined =
correctly. In this case, none of the existing LDAP resultCodes can =
sufficiently communicate the problem.  I propose that each extension =
define its own error reporting mechanism (if appropriate), and we either =
create yet another result code called extendedOperationError, or just use =
other to signal that one should look at the results of the extended =
operation.
>>=20
>>Any other ideas?
>
>I suggest the specification defining the extended operation define
>additional resultCodes as needed.

Are you suggesting that the new result codes be returned in the resultCode =
field of the LDAPResult, or that the extended response provide an =
alternate field to report them? The former method won't work with 2251 =
(4.1.10, "If a client receives a result code which is not listed above...")=
. We could easily fix this in the bis doc.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt; "Kurt D. Zeilenga" &lt;Kurt@OpenLDAP.org&gt; 8/9/00 =
5:46:58 PM=20
&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;The other has to do with extended operations that =
need=20
to report error conditions that are not currently defined. For example, =
say=20
there's an extended operation that starts the replication process, an =
error may=20
need to be returned that states that the replication agreement is not =
defined=20
correctly. In this case, none of the existing LDAP resultCodes can =
sufficiently=20
communicate the problem.&nbsp; I propose that each extension define its =
own=20
error reporting mechanism (if appropriate), and we either create yet =
another=20
result code called extendedOperationError, or just use other to signal =
that one=20
should look at the results of the extended operation.<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
<BR>&gt;&gt;Any other ideas?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I suggest the specification =
defining=20
the extended operation define<BR>&gt;additional resultCodes as needed.</DIV=
>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Are you suggesting that the new result codes be returned in the =
resultCode=20
field of the LDAPResult, or that the extended response provide an =
alternate=20
field to report them?&nbsp;The former method&nbsp;won't work with 2251 =
(4.1.10,=20
"If a client receives a result code which is not listed above..."). We =
could=20
easily fix this in the bis doc.<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_DB837C11.B6D7BAC9--



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 10 16:44:34 2000
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Message-Id: <200008102036.AAA15763@mail.mirapoint.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:36:49 -0700
From: Zachary Amsden <zach@mirapoint.com>
Subject: Re: controlling visability of subentries
To: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Cc: Ed Reed <eer@OnCallDBA.COM>, zach@mirapoint.com, mcs@netscape.com,
        ietf-ldup@imc.org, ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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>I would suggest the control have a syntax similar to
>ManageDsaIT control defined by
draft-ietf-ldapext-refer-00.txt
>(or draft-zeilenga-ldap-nameref-00.txt) but with semantics of
>the X.511 ServiceControls "subentries" option [X.511(97)
5.7f].
>
>Kurt

How about 

Control ::= SEQUENCE {
   controlType = 2.16.840.1.113719.2.142.7.TBD
   criticality = TRUE
   controlValue = (not present)
}

I think it should be critical, since if the server doesn't
recognize it, there is no way the request can be processed
sucessfully.

Zach



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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:41:08 -0700
To: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Extended operation errors
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
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At 01:52 PM 8/10/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:
>>I suggest the specification defining the extended operation define
>>additional resultCodes as needed.
> 
>Are you suggesting that the new result codes be returned in the resultCode field of the LDAPResult, or that the extended response provide an alternate field to report them? The former method won't work with 2251 (4.1.10, "If a client receives a result code which is not listed above..."). We could easily fix this in the bis doc.

I'm suggesting that an extended operation "update" 2251 with additional
result codes as needed, no need to add clarification to the bis doc
(except maybe to reserve a set for extension specific use).  As these
resultCodes would be specific to the OID associated with the extended
operation, no collisions will occur, no client not expecting them would
ever see them, and no harm will be caused.

Note, I am NOT suggesting controls extend resultCodes.  As operations
can carry multiple controls, collisions could occur.  These are better
returned in a response control.



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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:19:56 -0500
From: Mark Wahl <M.Wahl@innosoft.com>
Subject: Re: Extended operation errors
In-reply-to: "Your message of Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:52:25 MDT."
 <s992b3a1.028@prv-mail20.provo.novell.com>
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An extension SHOULD NOT use the resultCode field as it is an INTEGER value:
to prevent collisions, each extension which wants to signal additional 
information back to the client beyond the overall operation status needs to
define a control or an extended response which it can return to the client.
A client which has issued an operation with a control would normally look in 
the operation response PDU to see if the extension has provided a response
control.

Mark Wahl, Directory Architect, Service Provider/Infrastructure
Sun Microsystems, Inc. iPlanet Alliance



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From: 48hourstopayday@angelfire.com
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Subject:  Big Returns on Investment
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Here's one that will give you big $$$ return on investment! 166% return after 48 hours! 
Yes 166%. You can invest as little as $1.00 - $1000.00. See for yourself. For more 
information send to 48hourstopayday@angelfire.com and you must put " YES " in the 
subject matter or you will not get a reply. Thank you




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From: info@ETBR.ifeelgood.au.nu.netscape.com
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Subject:  Rocket Fuel for your body - no joke! -GWKQ
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All replies ifeelgood100@altavista.com 



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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


	Title		: LDAPv3 Transactions
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	Filename	: draft-zeilenga-ldap-txn-00.txt
	Pages		: 5
	Date		: 10-Aug-00
	
LDAP [RFC2251] update operations have atomic properties upon
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All our mailings are sent complying to the proposed United States Federal
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From list@netscape.com  Fri Aug 11 16:30:27 2000
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From: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
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Subject: Re: Last Call: LDAP Password Modify Extended Operation to
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This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to 
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In section 5, the wording "If the provided oldPasswd value cannot be =
verified or is incorrect, the server SHALL NOT change the user password." =
implies that if the oldPassword value is not provided, this clause may be =
ignored. If this is true (and I hope it is), I'd like to see a stronger =
indication of the server behavior when the oldPasswd value is not =
provided.

I'd prefer if the draft stated that if the oldPasswd value is not present, =
the server MAY use other policy to determine whether the password is =
changed. This is typically be due to the currently authenticated identity =
having sufficient access permissions to change the specified user's =
password (such as a supervisor).

On a lesser note:

There are redundancies in Section 5, second paragraph, and Section 6, =
first paragraph.

Jim

--=_0850A8AC.3F5E320C
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV>In section 5, the wording "If the provided oldPasswd value cannot =
be=20
verified or is incorrect, the server SHALL NOT change the user password."=
=20
implies that if the oldPassword value is not provided, this clause may =
be=20
ignored. If this is true (and I hope it is), I'd like to see a=20
stronger&nbsp;indication of the server behavior when the oldPasswd value =
is not=20
provided.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'd prefer if the draft stated that if the oldPasswd value is not =
present,=20
the server MAY use other policy to determine whether the password is =
changed.=20
This is typically be due to the currently authenticated identity having=20
sufficient access permissions to change the specified user's password =
(such as a=20
supervisor).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>On a lesser note:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>There are redundancies&nbsp;in Section 5, second paragraph, and =
Section 6,=20
first paragraph.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jim</DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_0850A8AC.3F5E320C--



From list@netscape.com  Fri Aug 11 17:43:43 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:40:28 -0700
To: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
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At 01:26 PM 8/10/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:
>>>> "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org> 8/9/00 5:48:24 PM >>>
>>At 04:27 PM 8/9/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:
> 
>>>Hmm, I think the wording in the draft should be changed to reflect this. Currently it says "These duplicate entries are returned to the client only if they still match the asserted search filter". That's a little ambiguous.
>
>>Actually, I don't find that ambiguous at all... it's clearly option a).
> 
>It doesn't say anything about other factors that might cause the entry (as seen by the client) to not match the filter (like ACI).

This is intrinsic behavior of search and, unless this I-D specifically
states otherwise, is the behavior of the operation as extended
by the control.  A statement that this behavior is unaffected by
the control may be appropriate.

The choices could be clarified as follows:

  a) all entries within scope are duplicated (per the
  control) which match the filter may be returned by the
  server (subject to other factors)

  b) all entries within scope and match the filter are
  duplicated (per the control) and may be returned by the
  server (subject to other factors).

That is, by "filtered" I meant to act of matching the
entries against the filter, not the act of trimming results
due to other factors.

> 
>>>>That is,
>>>>        a) all entries within scope are duplicated per the control,
>>>>      then filtered.
>>>>
>>>>        b) all entries within scope are filtered, then duplicated
>>>>        per the control.
>>>>

BTW, I'd avoid the a v. b BOOLEAN if at all possible.

--=====================_198676031==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
At 01:26 PM 8/10/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Kurt D. Zeilenga&quot;
&lt;Kurt@OpenLDAP.org&gt; 8/9/00 5:48:24 PM &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;At 04:27 PM 8/9/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&gt;<font size=1>Hmm, I think the wording in the draft should be
changed to reflect this. Currently it says &quot;These duplicate entries
are returned to the client only if they still match the asserted search
filter&quot;. That's a little ambiguous.</font><br>
<br>
&gt;Actually, I don't find that ambiguous at all... it's clearly option
a).<br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=1>It doesn't say anything about other factors that might cause
the entry (as seen by the client) to not match the filter (like
ACI).</font></blockquote><br>
This is intrinsic behavior of search and, unless this I-D
specifically<br>
states otherwise, is the behavior of the operation as extended<br>
by the control.&nbsp; A statement that this behavior is unaffected
by<br>
the control may be appropriate.<br>
<br>
The choices could be clarified as follows:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; a) all entries within scope are duplicated (per the<br>
&nbsp; control) which match the filter may be returned by the<br>
&nbsp; server (subject to other factors)<br>
<br>
&nbsp; b) all entries within scope and match the filter are<br>
&nbsp; duplicated (per the control) and may be returned by the<br>
&nbsp; server (subject to other factors).<br>
<br>
That is, by &quot;filtered&quot; I meant to act of matching the<br>
entries against the filter, not the act of trimming results<br>
due to other factors.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>&nbsp;<br>
<font size=1>&gt;&gt;&gt;That is,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a) all entries
within scope are duplicated per the control,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; then filtered.</font><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
<font size=1>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; b)
all entries within scope are filtered, then duplicated<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; per the
control.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;</font></blockquote><font face="Courier, Courier" size=1><br>
</font>BTW, I'd avoid the a v. b BOOLEAN if at all possible.<br>
</html>

--=====================_198676031==_.ALT--



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Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:33:13 -0700
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From: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
Subject: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
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Please publish the attached personal submission.  This is my first time 
using the Word template.  Hopefully, it is in a suitable format...  Note 
that this draft is not a response to anything in particular.  It just 
contains some general observations from watching the traffic in the ldapext 
mailing list, the prior ldap mailing list, and participation in X.500 and 
the long lost X.400 standardization efforts.  Comments are welcomed.

Bruce
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LDAPEXT Working Group                                     B. Greenblatt=20
Internet Draft                                      Directory Tools and=20
                                             Application Services, Inc.=20
<draft-greenblatt-ldapextstyle-00.txt>                      August 2000=20
Category: Informational                                                =20
=20
=20
                       LDAP Extension Style Guide=20
=20
=20
Status of this Memo=20
=20
   This document is an Internet-Draft and is in full conformance with=20
      all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026 [1]. =20
   =20
   =20
   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering=20
   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that=20
   other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-
   Drafts. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of=20
   six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other=20
   documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet- Drafts=20
   as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in=20
   progress." =20
   The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at=20
   http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt =20
   The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at=20
   http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.=20
   =20
   =20
1. Abstract=20
   =20
   Version 3 of the Lightweight Directory Access Protocol (LDAP) as=20
   defined in [1] provides a base set of services.  Additionally, LDAP=20
   provides several mechanisms by which the base set of services may be=20
   enhanced to provide additional services.  This document describes=20
   the different ways that LDAP may be enhanced, and how developers can=20
   decide which enhancement mechanism is best suited for their=20
   environment.  It also discusses the positives and negatives for each=20
   LDAP enhancement mechanism=20
   =20
   =20
2. Conventions used in this document=20
   =20
   =20
   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",=20
   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in=20
   this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC-2119 [2].=20
   =20
   =20
3. Introduction=20
   =20
   There are four mechanisms for enhancing the base set of services=20
   offered by LDAP:=20
 =20
<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                   1=20
=0C
                < LDAP Extension Style Guide>   <August> <2001>=20
=20
   =20
        - Controls=20
        - Extended Operations=20
        - Schema Enhancements=20
        - New Attribute Type Syntaxes=20
   =20
   Each of these enhancement mechanisms will be described separately in=20
   the following sections.  Each section will include examples that=20
   show appropriate usage for that mechanism.  Each section also=20
   includes examples that show inappropriate usage for that mechanism.=20
   =20
4. LDAP Controls=20
   =20
   An LDAP Control is a mechanism that allows additional parameters to=20
   be added to previously defined LDAP operations.  The LDAP operations=20
   defined in [1] are:=20
   =20
        - Bind=20
        - Unbind=20
        - Search=20
        - Add=20
        - Modify=20
        - ModifyDN=20
        - Delete=20
        - Compare=20
   =20
   Each of these operations has a defined set of parameters that are=20
   passed in the LDAPMessage construct.  A control is the preferred=20
   means of enhancing an existing operation.  The control mechanism=20
   SHOULD be used when it does not fundamentally change the meaning and=20
   operating characteristics of an existing operation.  LDAP controls=20
   have a criticality that is defined.  The criticality field is only=20
   meaningful when the control is passed from the LDAP client to the=20
   LDAP server in the operation request.  LDAP clients ignore the=20
   criticality field in controls that appear in operation results.=20
   =20
   The parameters that appear in the control reside within the=20
   controlValue field.  The controlValue field is encoded as an=20
   octetString.  Its value may be defined by the use of a BNF grammar=20
   or an ASN.1 syntax definition.  If BNF is used, the use of BNF MUST=20
   be in conformance with the Augmented BNF definitions of [4].  No=20
   preference is given towards either definition.=20
   =20
   An example of an LDAP extension that is appropriate for=20
   implementation as a control is the sorted results control that can=20
   be used in the Search operation as defined by [5].  The Search=20
   operation normally returns all entries that match the supplied=20
   filter.  The results are returned in any order that is appropriate=20
   for the LDAP server.  The sorted results control only changes the=20
   order in which the matched entries are returned to the LDAP client. =20
   The control does not substantially change the way in which the LDAP=20
   server implements the Search operation.  It is left up to the client=20
   to decide on the criticality of the control.  Unless there is an=20
   overwhelming reason why the Search should not be performed if the=20
 =20
<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                   2=20
=0C
                < LDAP Extension Style Guide>   <August> <2001>=20
=20
   sorted results control then the criticality should be FALSE.  As a=20
   general rule, unless the results of the operation would be useless=20
   (or potentially harmful) control criticality SHOULD be given the=20
   value FALSE.=20
   =20
   The Search request includes a parameter that allows the client to=20
   request whether or not aliases are dereferenced.  RFC 2256 defines=20
   an object class called organizationalRole.  This object class is=20
   similar to the alias object class in that it includes a roleOccupant=20
   attribute that holds one or more distinguished names of other=20
   entries in the directory.  The search request does not include a=20
   parameter to automatically dereference roleOccupants.  Thus, it is=20
   possible to define a control to request whether or not to=20
   dereference roleOccupants.  If this request is made, and is=20
   supported by the LDAP server, then the LDAP server handles the=20
   organizationalRole entries in a manner similar to the way in which=20
   it handles alias entries in the presence of the derefAliases=20
   parameter.  The controlValue can be defined using this ASN.1:=20
   =20
   derefOrganizationRoles    ENUMERATED {=20
        neverDerefRoles       (0),=20
        derefInSearching        (1),=20
        derefFindingBaseObj     (2),=20
        derefAlways             (3)}=20
   =20
   Similarly, it can be defined using this BNF:=20
   =20
   derefOrganizationalRoles =3D =20
        neverDerefRoles | derefInSearching | derefFindingBaseObj |=20
        derefAlways=20
   neverDerefRoles =3D =930=94=20
   derefInSearching =3D =931=94=20
   derefFindingBaseObj =3D =932=94=20
   derefAlways =3D =933=94=20
   =20
   The handling of the control value is similar to the way in which the=20
   derefAliases parameter value is handled.  The major difference is=20
   that the roleOccupant attribute may be multi-valued, and the Search=20
   operation may fan out in multiple directions, which would not be the=20
   case with the single-valued aliasedObjectName attribute.  The=20
   question arises as to whether the dereference organizational role=20
   control fundamentally changes the behavior of the Search operation. =20
   There is some change in the behavior due to the multiway fan out of=20
   the Search operation.  So, is this change "fundamental"?  In this=20
   situation, the answer is no.  The behavior is so similar to the=20
   behavior of the derefAliases parameter already in the Search request=20
   that the change is not seen to be fundamental.=20
   =20
   Consider the LDAP Extension to copy an entry or subtree from one=20
   part of the Directory Information Tree (DIT) to another.  This=20
   extension can be defined as a control in the ModifyDN operation. =20
   This operation already moves an entry or subtree from one part of=20
   the tree to another.  A control can be defined to indicate that=20
   instead of moving the entries from one part of the DIT to another,=20
 =20
<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                   3=20
=0C
                < LDAP Extension Style Guide>   <August> <2001>=20
=20
   the entries in the named subtree are copied to the new part of the=20
   DIT.  This control could be defined using this ASN.1:=20
   =20
   copySubtreeControl ::=3D SEQUENCE {=20
        target           LDAPDN,=20
        filter           Filter OPTIONAL}=20
   =20
   Similarly, it can be defined using this BNF:=20
   =20
   copySubtreeRequest =3D source SEP target SEP filter=20
   target =3D LDAPDN ; defined according to [6]=20
   filter =3D UTF-8String ; defined according to [9]=20
   SEP =3D =93;=94=20
   =20
   If the filter is present in the request, only those objects in the=20
   source subtree that match the filter are copied to the target=20
   subtree.  Even though the copy subtree extension can be defined=20
   using this control, it should not be defined this way.  This is due=20
   to the fact that it fundamentally changes the behavior of the=20
   modifyDN operation.  As it is currently defined, the modifyDN=20
   operation is logically just a change in name that affects the entry=20
   named in the =93entry=94 parameter of the modifyDN operation.  The=20
   addition of the copy subtree control would fundamentally change this=20
   behavior.  Thus, the copy subtree extension should not be=20
   implemented as a control, and instead by implemented as an extended=20
   operation.=20
   =20
   The definition of a control SHOULD be defined in such a manner that=20
   it is extensible.  For extensibility, extra binary fields SHOULD be=20
   built into the definition.  In ASN.1, use of a SEQUENCE is helpful. =20
   In order to allow for extensibility, the copySubtreeControl can be=20
   defined as:=20
   =20
   copySubtreeControl ::=3D SEQUENCE {=20
        target           LDAPDN,=20
        filter           Filter OPTIONAL,=20
        extensions   [0] OCTET STRING OPTIONAL}=20
   =20
   Similarly, using ABNF the request can be defined as:=20
   =20
   copySubtreeRequest =3D source SEP target SEP filter SEP extensions=20
   target =3D LDAPDN ; defined according to [6]=20
   filter =3D UTF-8String ; defined according to [9]=20
   extensions =3D binary ; arbitrary binary data=20
   =20
   Note that servers SHOULD not send back controls in an operation=20
   response that have not been requested by the client.  In the event=20
   that a client does receive an unsolicited control in a response, the=20
   client MAY ignore the control.=20
   =20
5. LDAP Extended Operations=20
   =20
   An LDAP Extended Operation is a mechanism that allows for new LDAP=20
   operations to be defined to enhance the base set listed above.  The=20
 =20
<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                   4=20
=0C
                < LDAP Extension Style Guide>   <August> <2001>=20
=20
   extended operation describes the parameters that are passed in the=20
   LDAPMessage construct.  The extended operation MUST define both the=20
   ExtendedRequest message that is passed from the LDAP client to the=20
   LDAP server, as well as the ExtendedResult message that is passed=20
   from the LDAP server back to the LDAP client.  The extended=20
   operation mechanism SHOULD be used when its operating=20
   characteristics are fundamentally different from the base set of=20
   LDAP operations.=20
   =20
   The parameters that appear in the extension reside within the=20
   requestValue field.  The requestValue field is encoded as an=20
   octetString.  Its value may be defined by the use of a BNF grammar=20
   or an ASN.1 syntax definition.  If BNF is used, the use of BNF MUST=20
   be in conformance with the Augmented BNF definitions of [4].  No=20
   preference is given towards either definition.=20
   =20
   Consider the copy subtree extension mentioned above.  Since it=20
   fundamentally changes the behavior of the base LDAP operations, it=20
   will be defined using an extended operation.  The requestValue has=20
   this ASN.1:=20
   =20
   copySubtreeRequest ::=3D SEQUENCE {=20
        source           LDAPDN,=20
        target           LDAPDN,=20
        filter           Filter OPTIONAL}=20
   =20
   Similarly, it can be defined using this BNF:=20
   =20
   copySubtreeRequest =3D source SEP target SEP filter=20
   source =3D LDAPDN ; defined according to [6]=20
   target =3D LDAPDN ; defined according to [6]=20
   filter =3D UTF-8String ; defined according to [9]=20
   =20
   =20
   Notice that the source parameter is added here as opposed to the=20
   previously defined control.  This is due to the fact that the=20
   previously defined control made use of the =93entry=94 parameter of the=
=20
   modifyDN operation.=20
   =20
   The definition of an extended operation should be defined in such a=20
   manner that it is extensible.  For extensibility, extra binary=20
   fields SHOULD be built into the definition.  In ASN.1, use of a=20
   SEQUENCE is helpful.  In order to allow for extensibility, the=20
   copySubtreeRequest can be defined as:=20
   =20
   copySubtreeRequest ::=3D SEQUENCE {=20
        source           LDAPDN,=20
        target           LDAPDN,=20
        filter           Filter OPTIONAL,=20
        extensions   [0] OCTET STRING OPTIONAL}=20
   =20
   Similarly, using ABNF the request can be defined as:=20
   =20
   copySubtreeRequest =3D source SEP target SEP filter SEP extensions=20
 =20
<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                   5=20
=0C
                < LDAP Extension Style Guide>   <August> <2001>=20
=20
   source =3D LDAPDN ; defined according to [6]=20
   target =3D LDAPDN ; defined according to [6]=20
   filter =3D UTF-8String ; defined according to [9]=20
   extensions =3D binary ; arbitrary binary data=20
   =20
   Note that servers MUST not send back extended responses that have=20
   not been requested by the client.  In the event that a client does=20
   receive an unsolicited extended response in a response, the client=20
   MAY ignore the extended response.=20
   =20
6. LDAP Schema Extensions=20
   =20
   The base set of LDAP Object Classes and Attribute Types are defined=20
   in [2] and [3].  Schema is the collection of attribute type=20
   definitions, object class definitions and other information that a=20
   server uses to determine how to match a filter or attribute value=20
   assertion (in a compare operation) against the attributes of an=20
   entry, and whether to permit add and modify operations.  Schema=20
   extensions are the preferred mechanism of enhancing LDAP.  This is=20
   due to the fact that all LDAP servers allow their base schemas to be=20
   enhanced.  Furthermore, it is a requirement that the LDAP server=20
   MUST publish the schema supported by an LDAP server.  =20
   =20
   New attribute types MUST not be added to existing object classes. =20
   New object classes that are defined SHOULD use existing attribute=20
   types when the data elements are substantially similar to existing=20
   data elements that have previously been defined.  The use of schema=20
   extensions allows normal LDAP operations to be used to supply=20
   enhancements to the set of base LDAP services.  For example, the=20
   sorted results control was previously mentioned.  This control is=20
   only useful in dealing with whole attributes that appear within=20
   entries.=20
   =20
   Consider a search that wants to retrieve the list of users by=20
   location code (a subfield of the phone number), but sorted by=20
   surname within location code.  The telephoneNumber attribute type is=20
   defined as a character string that is assumed to contain the=20
   location code.  Unfortunately, the location code is not broken out=20
   from the telephone number, so it is not generally possible to=20
   algorithmically determine the location code from examining the=20
   telephone number attribute.  Furthermore, the telephoneNumber is a=20
   multi-valued attribute.  Each attribute value might contain a=20
   logically different location code.  In order to adequately support=20
   this feature, a new attribute type can be defined to hold the=20
   primary location code of the entry.  This can be defined as follows:=20
   =20
   (tempOID NAME 'locationCodeInformation' SUP top AUXILIARY=20
        MUST primaryLocationCode )=20
   =20
   (tempOID NAME 'primaryLocationCode' SUP =91name=92 SINGLE-VALUE )=20
   =20
   Note that real object identifiers are not used in the above=20
   definitions, since this document is not actually defining the=20
   locationCodeInformation object class.  The desired sort can now be=20
 =20
<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                   6=20
=0C
                < LDAP Extension Style Guide>   <August> <2001>=20
=20
   achieved by using the primaryLocationCode attribute type and the=20
   surname attribute type within the sort results control.  This sort=20
   only works if the locationCodeInformation is populated within the=20
   DIT.  The LDAP server does not automatically populate the=20
   primaryLocationCode using other attributes, so it is incumbent upon=20
   the LDAP client to populate the primaryLocationCode attribute if the=20
   sort is to work as desired.=20
=20
7. New Attribute Type Syntaxes=20
   =20
   The base LDAP Syntaxes are defined in [2].  It is occasionally the=20
   case that there is no defined syntax that exactly matches a=20
   previously defined syntax.  When this circumstance arises, there are=20
   two alternatives:=20
   =20
        - Define a new attribute syntax=20
        - Use a binary syntax, and define a BNF grammar for the=20
           attributes that fits inside the binary syntax.=20
   =20
   Either of these alternatives defines new attribute syntaxes.  The=20
   use of BNF is preferred in environments where the LDAP Server is not=20
   specifically required to understand the syntax.  Furthermore, there=20
   is no requirement of compliant LDAP servers to be able to support=20
   attribute type syntaxes that are defined outside of [2].  Thus, the=20
   use of BNF on top of existing attribute syntaxes is preferred as it=20
   is more likely to be interoperable among LDAP servers supplied form=20
   multiple sources.  The use of BNF MUST be in conformance with the=20
   Augmented BNF definitions of [4].  When a binary syntax is chosen,=20
   the Octet String syntax defined in [2] which uses=20
   1.3.6.1.4.1.1466.115.121.1.40 as the object identifier SHOULD be=20
   used as the wrapper attribute syntax.  When the data to be stored is=20
   character data, the Directory String syntax defined in [2], which=20
   uses 1.3.6.1.4.1.1466.115.121.1.15 as the object identifier SHOULD=20
   be used instead.=20
   =20
   Since not all LDAP servers support (or easily support) the addition=20
   of new attribute type syntaxes, the use of the attribute type=20
   syntaxes is not always available.  The use of an Octet String or a=20
   Directory String in combination with BNF is normally a better=20
   alternative, and SHOULD be used.  In defining the BNF, strong=20
   consideration should be paid to matching rules.  In string data, the=20
   BNF SHOULD be defined so that the substring matching rule is still=20
   effective.  For example, [2] defines the postal address syntax as a=20
   Directory String syntax that uses the following BNF:=20
   =20
   postal-address =3D dstring *( "$" dstring )=20
   =20
   An example character string using this BNF is:=20
   =20
   1234 Main St.$Anytown, CA 12345$USA=20
   =20
   This definition allows substring matching to still be effective,=20
   especially through its use of separation characters.  For example,=20
   the =93$Anytown=94 string could be used as the =93ANY=94 sub-filter to=
 find=20
 =20
<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                   7=20
=0C
                < LDAP Extension Style Guide>   <August> <2001>=20
=20
   all entries with a postal address in Anytown.  Use of this sub-
   filter would not match those entries that have a postal address on=20
   =93Anytown Blvd=94 that are not actually in he city Anytown.=20
   =20
   Use of ASN.1 for new attribute type syntaxes SHOULD only be used in=20
   the case of very complex data types, and only then after serious=20
   consideration of an ABNF representation.  Whenever ASN.1 is used for=20
   specifying a new attribute type syntax, the ASN.1 encoding mechanism=20
   MUST also be specified (DER encoding is STRONGLY preferred).=20
=20
8. The Grey Area=20
   =20
   In some situations it is not clear whether to use a control or an=20
   extended operation.  Consider an LDAP extension that would delete an=20
   entire subtree instead of deleting a single entry as the current=20
   Delete operation does.  This could be implemented as either a=20
   control used with the existing Delete operation or a new extended=20
   operation.  In fact Internet drafts have been proposed using both=20
   methodologies [7], [8].  Persuasive arguments can be made about=20
   implementing this LDAP extension either as an extended operation or=20
   a control.  An operation on a subtree is different than an operation=20
   than an operation on an individual entry.  But, are the operations=20
   different enough to implement the subtree delete operation as an=20
   extended operation.=20
   =20
   A good guideline to use for deciding if the use of a control is=20
   appropriate is to examine what would happen if an LDAP server that=20
   did not support it received the control.  If the criticality field=20
   is set to TRUE, then the LDAP server would return the error code=20
   unsupportedCriticalExtension.  If the criticality field is set to=20
   FALSE, then the LDAP server ignores the control and operates on the=20
   remainder of the LDAP operation request.  If the LDAP server=20
   attempts to implement the operation with the non-critical control=20
   and would always return an error result code, then the LDAP=20
   extension SHOULD NOT be implemented as a control, but instead SHOULD=20
   be implemented as an extended operation.=20
   =20
   If there are many scenarios in which an LDAP server ignoring a non-
   critical control would still be able to successfully implement the=20
   operation, then the LDAP extension SHOULD be implemented as a=20
   control.  If there are only a few scenarios in which an LDAP server=20
   ignoring a non-critical control would still be able to successfully=20
   implement the operation, then consensus should be sought from the=20
   LDAP community.  The smaller the number of valid scenarios in which=20
   an LDAP server ignoring a non-critical control would still be able=20
   to successfully implement the operation, then greater consideration=20
   should be given to the use of an extended operation.  Similarly, the=20
   greater the number of valid scenarios in which an LDAP server=20
   ignoring a non-critical control would still be able to successfully=20
   implement the operation, then greater consideration should be given=20
   to the use of a control.  In the case of the subtree delete=20
   extension, the only scenario in which an LDAP server ignoring the=20
   control would still be able to successfully implement the delete=20
   operation is when the entry named in the DelRequest is a leaf entry. =20
 =20
<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                   8=20
=0C
                < LDAP Extension Style Guide>   <August> <2001>=20
=20
   Using the guideline mentioned above, consideration should be given=20
   to the use of an extended operation for the implementation of the=20
   delete subtree extension.=20
   =20
=20
9. Security Considerations=20
=20
   Implementors and administrators should be aware that =85=20
   =20
   =20
10. References=20
   =20
=20
   1  Bradner, S., "The Internet Standards Process -- Revision 3", BCP=20
      9, RFC 2026, October 1996.=20
   =20
   2  Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement=20
      Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997=20
   =20
   =20
   =20
   [1] Wahl, M., Kille, S. and Howes, T.,  "Lightweight Directory=20
      Access Protocol (v3)", Internet Standard, December, 1997. =20
      RFC2251.=20
   [2] Wahl, M., Coulbeck, A., Howes, T. and Kille, S.,  "Lightweight=20
      Directory Access Protocol (v3), Attribute Syntax Definitions",=20
      Internet Standard, December, 1997.  RFC2252.=20
   [3] Wahl, M.,  "A Summary of the X.500(96) User Schema for use with=20
      LDAPv3", Internet Standard, December, 1997.  RFC2256.=20
   [4] Crocker, D., and P. Overell, "Augmented BNF for Syntax=20
      Specifications: ABNF", RFC 2234, November 1997.=20
   [5] Herron, A., et. al, "LDAP Control Extension for Server Side=20
      Sorting of Search Results=94, RFC NNNN, July 2000.=20
   [6] Wahl, M., Kille, S. and Howes, T.,  "Lightweight Directory=20
      Access Protocol (v3): UTF-8 String Representation of=20
      Distinguished Names", Internet Standard, December, 1997. =20
      RFC2253.=20
   [7] Greenblatt, B, =93Simple Operations on Subtrees (for LDAP)=94,=20
      Internet Draft (Work in Progress), August 2000, draft-greenblatt-
      ldapext-sos-01.=20
   [8] Armijo, M, =93LDAP Tree Delete Control=94, Internet Draft (Work in=20
      Progress), expired, ftp://ftp.isi.edu/internet-drafts/draft-
      armijo-ldap-treedelete-03.txt.=20
   [9] Howes, T.,  "The String Representation of LDAP Search Filters",=20
      Internet Standard, December, 1997.  RFC2254.=20
   =20
10.  Acknowledgments=20
   =20
   Thanks to Kurt Zeilenga for an informal review prior to submission.=20
   =20
   =20
11. Author's Addresses=20
   =20
   Bruce Greenblatt=20
 =20
<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                   9=20
=0C
                < LDAP Extension Style Guide>   <August> <2001>=20
=20
   Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.=20
   6841 Heaton Moor Drive=20
   Phone: +1-408-390-4776=20
   Email: bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com=20
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<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                  10=20
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<Greenblatt>        Informational =96 February 2001                  11=20
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--=====================_18093016==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html
--=====================_18093016==_--



From list@netscape.com  Sat Aug 12 05:24:41 2000
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From: "hmk91280@yahoo.com" <hmk91280@yahoo.com>
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Subject: An Internet Marketers Dream!!!!
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Are you an internet marketer?

Are you tired of searching the Internet for resources, information and tools 
to help you earn Money?.... If you answered yes, I have some Great News for you! 

I have found a site that has everything you could possibly need as an internet 
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Check it out...what have you got to lose?

Please reply to this Email if you want more info.
(put "more info" in the subject field)

hmk91280@yahoo.com

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Subject: Financial Information You Requested!!
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You were recently referred to me as someone who was
ready for a CHANGE, a financial breakthrough, so I'll
get right to the point.

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24 Hrs/ 7 Days


Prosperous Regards!
Dave


"Profits are better than wages. Wages make you a living;
Profits make you a fortune"
- Jim Rohn




To be removed send email to wantoffnow@yahoo.com





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From: info@ENIH.ifeelgood.au.nu.netscape.com
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Subject:  Your body could be letting you down. -ATRA
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IFG300


http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired?  Lethargic, lack of energy in your day?

Our food just doesn't have the nutrition we need anymore.  Consider the great diet most 
of us have.  Add to that the extra stresses we're under from working those 2, 3 or more jobs 
or even just trying to handle the overtime or even trying to keep the family together.

We're wrecking our bodies and we see that with the increase of Chronic Fatigue, Irritable 
Bowel Syndrome, ADD and ADHD, allergies, cancer and other diseases.

You know it and so do I.

So what's the answer? Go to this website and take a look for yourself.  You'll feel better than 
you have in AGES.  http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

This stuff really works.  The company is so sure of that they give a 30 day money back 
guarantee. 

Why wouldnt you put the best stuff available in your body so it will work at peak performace.  
Beat those winter colds, flu etc because when your body works right, it  works at a much 
better level.

We're becoming more nutritional aware and this is the best food on the market.  Check out 
the website to order this life changing stuff.  http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

Check it out.  You'll be surprised at how you feel.  You'll have more energy and feel better than you have in 
years!

Why don't you BALANCE YOUR BODY NOW.  http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

I've seen people whose lives have changed because of this stuff.  Its changed my life and 
to be honest, I am emailing you because I know it will change yours too.  But you gotta try it!  
There are lots of different things on the market and some work and some... well... maybe 
they promise a bit too much.

THIS STUFF DOES WORK.  I'VE SEEN THE EVIDENCE FOR MYSELF.  If you get onto 
the stuff and use it properly and are not satisfied within 30 days - you get your money back.  Thats a pretty 
fair deal.

So check out my web site and order the stuff and start to feel better than you have in years.  
Put a sparkle back into your eyes and a spring in your step.

Have a great day!

Annie Watson

All replies ifeelgood100@altavista.com








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IFG300


http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired?  Lethargic, lack of energy in your day?

Our food just doesn't have the nutrition we need anymore.  Consider the great diet most 
of us have.  Add to that the extra stresses we're under from working those 2, 3 or more jobs 
or even just trying to handle the overtime or even trying to keep the family together.

We're wrecking our bodies and we see that with the increase of Chronic Fatigue, Irritable 
Bowel Syndrome, ADD and ADHD, allergies, cancer and other diseases.

You know it and so do I.

So what's the answer? Go to this website and take a look for yourself.  You'll feel better than 
you have in AGES.  http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

This stuff really works.  The company is so sure of that they give a 30 day money back 
guarantee. 

Why wouldnt you put the best stuff available in your body so it will work at peak performace.  
Beat those winter colds, flu etc because when your body works right, it  works at a much 
better level.

We're becoming more nutritional aware and this is the best food on the market.  Check out 
the website to order this life changing stuff.  http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

Check it out.  You'll be surprised at how you feel.  You'll have more energy and feel better than you have in 
years!

Why don't you BALANCE YOUR BODY NOW.  http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

I've seen people whose lives have changed because of this stuff.  Its changed my life and 
to be honest, I am emailing you because I know it will change yours too.  But you gotta try it!  
There are lots of different things on the market and some work and some... well... maybe 
they promise a bit too much.

THIS STUFF DOES WORK.  I'VE SEEN THE EVIDENCE FOR MYSELF.  If you get onto 
the stuff and use it properly and are not satisfied within 30 days - you get your money back.  Thats a pretty 
fair deal.

So check out my web site and order the stuff and start to feel better than you have in years.  
Put a sparkle back into your eyes and a spring in your step.

Have a great day!

Annie Watson

All replies ifeelgood100@altavista.com








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This message was sent to address  <<address>> 
 





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IFG300


http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired?  Lethargic, lack of energy in your day?

Our food just doesn't have the nutrition we need anymore.  Consider the great diet most 
of us have.  Add to that the extra stresses we're under from working those 2, 3 or more jobs 
or even just trying to handle the overtime or even trying to keep the family together.

We're wrecking our bodies and we see that with the increase of Chronic Fatigue, Irritable 
Bowel Syndrome, ADD and ADHD, allergies, cancer and other diseases.

You know it and so do I.

So what's the answer? Go to this website and take a look for yourself.  You'll feel better than 
you have in AGES.  http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

This stuff really works.  The company is so sure of that they give a 30 day money back 
guarantee. 

Why wouldnt you put the best stuff available in your body so it will work at peak performace.  
Beat those winter colds, flu etc because when your body works right, it  works at a much 
better level.

We're becoming more nutritional aware and this is the best food on the market.  Check out 
the website to order this life changing stuff.  http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

Check it out.  You'll be surprised at how you feel.  You'll have more energy and feel better than you have in 
years!

Why don't you BALANCE YOUR BODY NOW.  http://www.ifeelgood.au.nu

I've seen people whose lives have changed because of this stuff.  Its changed my life and 
to be honest, I am emailing you because I know it will change yours too.  But you gotta try it!  
There are lots of different things on the market and some work and some... well... maybe 
they promise a bit too much.

THIS STUFF DOES WORK.  I'VE SEEN THE EVIDENCE FOR MYSELF.  If you get onto 
the stuff and use it properly and are not satisfied within 30 days - you get your money back.  Thats a pretty 
fair deal.

So check out my web site and order the stuff and start to feel better than you have in years.  
Put a sparkle back into your eyes and a spring in your step.

Have a great day!

Annie Watson

All replies ifeelgood100@altavista.com








Further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by 
sending a reply to this email address with the word "remove" in the subject line and 
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the email notice.  We will try again. It is not our intention to pester but simply to inform.

This message was sent to address  <<address>> 
 





From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 14 04:07:13 2000
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Message-Id: <200008140804.e7E84Fx05520@xwing.netscape.com>
From: remove@XWIA.asticker.com
To: citizen.DFQV@netscape.com
Subject:  Kids and Drugs Dont Mix - Kids and Guns Dont Mix -MVTY
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“KIDS AND GUNS DON'T MIX”
“KIDS AND DRUGS DON'T MIX”

Two very important ideas!  Recently a local organization offered these life saving quotes on a 
Bumper Sticker as a fundraiser.  I thought the concept was so great I wanted to share it with 
everyone I could.
Proudly display these bumper stickers on your car or anywhere else to get the message across.
These are professionally printed,  high quality stickers,  black ink on white paper.

Each sticker is $1.00 plus a Self Addressed Stamp Envelope.  
Order one for your family, friends, and loved ones.

Please send to,  

RB
PO Box 5757
Pahrump  NV  89041-5757


To be removed from future mailings,  email remove@stickera.com,  with remove in subject line.



  




From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 14 06:06:48 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 02:22:11 -0700
From: tkwriter@vanc.igs.net
Message-Id: <200008140922.CAA05340@buddy.pacificcoast.net>
Reply-To: tkwriter@vanc.igs.net
To: tkwriter@vanc.igs.net
Subject: Documentation Specialist Seeking Contract Work
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Documentation Specialists Seeking Contract Work - Technical Writing, 
graphics, Robohelp, HTML, SGML, etc. 

Senior technical writers, project leaders and electronic documentation 
specialists seek contract work. Clients have included companies such 
as Microsoft and Koch Petroleum. Excellent communication skills, able 
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Excellent background in technical, marketing and creative writing.
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Writing samples, full resume and references available on request.

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Prefer Corp to Corp Sole relationship directly with the client. 
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PLEASE REPLY ONLY BY PHONE
Contact - Casey Lea - 

TO INQUIRE ABOUT SERVICES, AVAILABILITY, OR TO CONFIRM REMOVAL FROM OUR LIST 
CALL 604-685-8348 PST

Rates: Fees are charged by the hour or by the project.  

-------------------
This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: SECTION 301. Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, 

http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/S771index.html___________________________________________________________
This Message was Composed by a user of Extractor Pro '98 Bulk E- Mail Software. If 
you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply 
with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you 
from their future mailings.




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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 03:35:34 -0700 (PDT)
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From: jtbowl@GARS.hotmail.com
To: .ERFH@netscape.com
Subject:  Gift SURPRISE Letter -EQRE
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THIS IS THE FAST ONE, DO IT, WHILE YOU'RE WAITING FOR THE 
OTHERS TO WORK.

You will probably have $7,000.00 in two weeks, ONLY $14.00 to $25.00 
Total cost 1 hour of work.

This is a gifting club

PLEASE READ TO FIND OUT HOW

You will not be contacted again.

If you want to make a few thousand dollars real quick, then please take a 
moment to read and understand the program I am sharing with you. No. It is 
NOT what you think! 

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SEND $5.00 TO FIVE PEOPLE, to buy a report, 
get on their mailing list, buy a recipes or any other product. Nor will you 
have to invest more money LATER to get things going.

THIS IS THE FASTEST, EASIEST PROGRAM you will ever be able to do. 
Complete it in ONE HOUR and you will never forget the day you first 
received it in the mail. If you are doing other programs, by all mean stay with 
them. The more the merrier!!! But PLEASE-READ ON.

First of all there are only THREE LEVELS, not four, five, or six like other 
programs. This three level program is more realistic and much, much faster. 
Because it is so easy, the response rate for this program is VERY HIGH 
and VERY FAST, and you receive your reward in about FOURTEEN 
DAYS. That's only TWO WEEKS-not three months. Just in time for next 
month's bills.

TRUE STORY
Cindy Allen tells how she ran this gift summation four times last year. The 
first time she receives $3,000.00 in cash in two weeks and the $7,000.00 in 
cash the next three times. When this letter is continued as it should be, 
EVERYONE PROFITS!! Don't be afraid to make gifts to strangers, they will 
come back to you ten fold. Many of us have pet programs that we support: 
food or medicine, or medical care for poor children is mine. Or maybe you 
just want to pay off some bills and get out debt. THIS CAN DO IT FOR YOU.

HERE ARE THE SIMPLE DETAILS:
You only mail out at least 200 copies (however you can send out as many 
as you like. The more you send, the more you make). You should send them 
to PEOPLE WHO SEND YOU THEIR PROGRAMS, because they are 
believers and your program is BETTER AND FASTER. Even if you are 
already in a program continue, stay with it, but do yourself a favor and DO 
THIS ONE TOO. RIGHT NOW!! It is simple and takes a very small 
investment, not hundreds of dollars AND IT WILL PAY you before the others 
even begin to trickle in.!!!

JUST GIVE ONE PERSON $ 5.00
That's it! That's all. Follow the simple instructions, and in TWO WEEKS you 
should have at least $7,000.00 because most people will respond due to 
LOW INVESTMENT, SPEED and HIGH PROFIT POTENTIAL. We are now 
at 20% response rate! That's a $10,000.00 return. REALLY! So let's all 
help keep it going, and help each other in these tough times.

INSTRUCTION
1) On a blank sheet of transparent proof paper, write down YOUR NAME 
and E-MAIL address clearly and the word GIFT (this makes the entire 
program legal & legitimate). Completely wrap it around a FIVE-DOLLAR 
BILL.. Send this to the FIRST name on the list below. ONLY THE FIRST 
PERSON ON THE LIST GETS YOUR NAME AND A FIVE DOLLAR GIFT 
AND THE RIGHT TO HAVE YOUR NAME ON THEIR MAILING LIST.

2) Retype the LIST, REMOVING THE FIRST (#1) name from the list. Move 
the SECOND (#2) name and address to the first (#1) position. Move the 
THIRD (#3) name and address to the (#2) position and place YOUR NAME 
AND ADDRESS in the THIRD (#3) position.

3) Send 200 (or more) copies of your retyped letter. An excellent source of 
names is the people who send you other programs. The most effective way 
to accelerate your hit rate is to buy opportunity seekers mailing lists from 
providers. There are many of them offering this service on the net today. 
You may find them from search engines with keywords : opportunity 
seekers, mailing list, opt in list, etc. 

Do it right away. It's so easy. Don't mull it over. ONE HOUR THAT'S ALL IT 
TAKES.

THERE IS NO MORE TO DO. When your name reaches the first (#1) 
position in a few days it will be your turn to collect your gifts. The gifts will be 
sent to you by over 1,500 to 2,000 people like yourself who are willing to 
invest $ 5.00 and ONE HOUR to receive $ 7,000.00 in cash. That's all !!  
There will be a total of $7,000.00 in $5.00 bills in your mailbox in about two 
weeks. CONSIDER THAT! 

"NONSENSE.  I HEARD ABOUT IT BEFORE.  A FRIEND OF MINE TOLD 
ME IT DOESN'T WORK"
Donald Trump was once invited as a guest speaker in a TV talk show. He 
was asked if he would be bankrupted today what would he do next. He said 
he will join a good MLM business. He was booed by other program guests. 
"That's why you are sitting there and I am sitting here" was what he said to 
them.  This program is even much better, easier to operate and yield result 
much faster than MLM. The only reason it doesn't work for somebody is 
they don't mail enough letters or mail to incorrect target group.  There are 
many participants who continuously do it over and over again 3-4 times 
yearly. Many successful gifters even participate more than one program at 
a time. Why ? Because they know this kind of program works for them.  
They pocketed 3-5 thousand dollars every time they did it. Most of them had 
joined other "MAKE MONEY ON THE NET" programs.  They know well that 
this gift program is easiest, fastest, lowest investment, not time consuming 
and offer most potential to make money from internet in a very short period 
of time.

CAN I DO IT AGAIN? OF COURSE...
You can do it again and again either with your regular group of gifters or 
fresh target mailing list. Why not?  It beats working! Each time you receive a 
MLM offer in the your mail box, respond with THIS LETTER. Your name will 
climb to number 1 position at a DIZZYING geometric rate.  

Some people may want to purchase a mailing list opportunity seekers ( if 
you don't know any providers, you can find many of them from search 
engines with keywords "mailing list", "opportunity seekers", etc. ) and send 
it out to 200 to 1,000 or more. That's fine; you can if you want to. You may 
even download a demo or unregistered version but fully functional mass 
email program to send email to thousands of addresses per hour. You may 
download a good one for free at http://www.fairlogic.com.  Before you use 
any bulk email program please make sure that your ISP is bulk email 
friendly otherwise you have a certain risk of being shutdown. 

THINK ABOUT THAT 20% RESPONSE! Not interested? Come on! Isn't 
the prospect of an easy $7,000.00 to $10,000.00 in two weeks worth a little 
experimentation? One hour of your time.

ACT FAST AND GET MONEY FAST!
Honesty and integrity make this plan work.  If you cheat you will never 
receive the full potential of this gift letter. Send FIVE DOLLARS to the first 
name NOW !!

SHORT INSTRUCTION

SEND $ 5 TO  NO. # 1, DELETE THE NAME AND ADDRESS OF # 1,
ROLL THE REST UP ONE STEP (replace NAME & ADDRESS of # 1 with 
# 2,  # 2  with # 3), PUT YOUR NAME IN NO # 3, AND START RECEIVING 
PILES OF $ 5 BILLS IN YOUR MAIL BOX DAILY !!

HERE IS THE LIST

# 1
Linda Hatch
1107 N Grove
Yates Center, KS 66783

# 2
Vornsrinth  P.
129 / 263 Room No 263, 7th FL, Tower B, 
Ratchada Orchid Tower
Hussadi-Saewee Ln., Suthisarn Rd.
Bangkok 10320, Thailand

#3
Jan Thomas
8513 Oakwood Drive
Urbandale, IA  50322

---------------------------------------------
Your address is supplied from an opportunity seekers target list provider. I 
do apologize if you are not in this target group as claimed by the provider. If 
you want to opt out from future mailing, please reply to 
giftremove@flashmail.com?subject=REMOVE

Get paid to read e-mail (.05 cents per e-mail).  Go to:  www.sendmoreinfo.com/id/1052930




From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 14 09:10:51 2000
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Subject: Get a $1000 FREE Satellite TV System !!!
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:31:29 -0500
To: newsatellite21@yahoo.com
Reply-To: bgetfreetv11@indiatimes.com
From: yourfreetv11@indiatimes.com
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From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 14 11:49:55 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:48:39 -0400
From: Rich Salz <rsalz@caveosystems.com>
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To: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
CC: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
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>   The criticality field is only 
>   meaningful when the control is passed from the LDAP client to the 
>   LDAP server in the operation request.  LDAP clients ignore the 
>   criticality field in controls that appear in operation results. 

I didn't think we had consensus on whether or not this was the right
behavior. (We probably agree it's what currently happens.)



From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 14 12:10:58 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:06:47 -0700
To: Rich Salz <rsalz@caveosystems.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
Cc: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>,
        ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 11:48 AM 8/14/00 -0400, Rich Salz wrote:
>>   The criticality field is only 
>>   meaningful when the control is passed from the LDAP client to the 
>>   LDAP server in the operation request.  LDAP clients ignore the 
>>   criticality field in controls that appear in operation results. 
>
>I didn't think we had consensus on whether or not this was the right
>behavior. (We probably agree it's what currently happens.)

Unless the server returns the response control without solicitation,
the criticality field is meaningless.  Unsolicited response
controls should be avoided (if not outright banded).

Kurt



From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 14 12:21:33 2000
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I thought Harald and I had reasonable examples of unsolicited return
controls (e.g., "search results not legally binding" and "shift-JIS
encoded") that made sense.



From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 14 12:23:19 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:19:33 -0700
To: Rich Salz <rsalz@caveosystems.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
Cc: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>,
        ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 12:20 PM 8/14/00 -0400, Rich Salz wrote:
>I thought Harald and I had reasonable examples of unsolicited return
>controls (e.g., "search results not legally binding" and "shift-JIS
>encoded") that made sense.

I don't think they are reasonable at all.  A server should only
indicate such if the client indicated it supported such.




From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 14 17:58:50 2000
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From: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
Cc: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
In-Reply-To: <39981C39.1351868C@caveosystems.com>
References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000811152642.00afd530@pop.walltech.com>
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At 12:20 PM 8/14/2000 -0400, Rich Salz wrote:
>I thought Harald and I had reasonable examples of unsolicited return
>controls (e.g., "search results not legally binding" and "shift-JIS
>encoded") that made sense.

Hmmm... All that I got out of that was that if the client didn't understand 
the Japanese control then it would be gibberish.  Thus, the client could 
safely ignore the control... Perhaps we need a new control on the Bind 
operation that lists the Client's supported controls.  Then, the server is 
not allowed to send back any unsupported controls.

Bruce
==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 15 02:06:25 2000
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Albert,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ietf-ldup@mail.imc.org
> [mailto:owner-ietf-ldup@mail.imc.org]On Behalf Of Albert Langer
> Sent: Saturday, 29 July 2000 7:24
> To: steven.legg@adacel.com.au
> Cc: ietf-ldup@imc.org; ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
> Subject: RE: LDUP Working Group Agenda - Summary of objections to
> requirements draft

[snip]

> Work is proceeding, outside LDUP, but within LDAPEXT, on how to group
> updates and/or do transactions in a standardized manner.
> 
> Some applications already use existing directory services to add their
> own non-standardized transactional semantics, relying only on the
> LDAP/X.500 data model which *does* support atomic operations on a
> single entry, but does not provide any means for locking a set of
> entries or performing an operation atomically on that set.
> 
> Methods include writing transaction identifiers to special
> attributes in each of the set of entries, then checking that nobody
> else did so, to any of them, after updating all the entries. 
> This requires
> that only DUAs cooperating in a transactional application have write
> access to all relevant attributes of the entries.
> 
> This sort of thing can work in a single master environment, 
> but becomes
> more complex in a multi-master environment. It is still possible
> provided attributes as a whole are replicated atomically, even
> though updates to different attributes of a single entry may be
> merged - as shown by the fact that Active Directory applications can
> do this, clumsily, using "consistency guids" and "child counts".
> 
> However it becomes much more difficult, and perhaps impossible, with
> URP, because even concurrent changes to individual attribute values of
> a single attribute may be merged.

If the required behaviour is for only one or the other of two
concurrent updates to an attribute to be retained, instead of the
values being merged, then this can be achieved by using the replace
attribute alternative in an LDAP modify or by defining the attribute
in question to be single-valued.

[snip]

> [Issue C - Convergence]
> > SUMMARY OF OBJECTIONS TO REQUIREMENTS DRAFT
> >
> > The three key points are:
> >
> > 1) There is no requirement for convergence or "eventual 
> consistency".
> >
> > This looks like just poor expression, but in fact the LDUP
> > architecture and
> > Update Reconciliation Procedures do specify proposed standards that
> > guarantee long term divergence by relying on timestamps
> 
> [Steve]
> The timestamp in the CSN is just a version number that happens
> to increment without visible update activity. A version number
> scheme that leaves gaps in the runs of version numbers isn't
> broken as long as the version numbers from a server are
> monotonically increasing. The LDUP CSN is monotonically 
> increasing too.
> The only difference with the LDUP CSN is that the gaps just happen
> to have a correlation to elapsed time.
> 
> > and
> > allowing DSAs to
> > transmit changes out of order and drop changes when clocks
> > are out of sync.
> > This is easily fixed, once a requirement to fix it is agreed on.
> >
> > Details on how to fix it based on the Coda replication 
> protocols also
> > adopted by Active Directory, and a semi-formal proof that the
> > fix would be
> > robust in the face of DSAs crashing and being restored from
> > backups, network
> > partitioning etc etc, is included in my draft below.
> 
> Your proof neglects the effects of the purging mechanism. Restoring
> a crashed DSA from a backup works if no change information is ever
> removed. However if a backup restores a DSA to a state prior to the
> purge point of any of the other replicas there exists the possibility
> that the other DSAs have forgotten changes that the restored DSA
> needs to bring it up to date and consistent with the others.
> 
> I have a procedure for solving the replica consistency problems of
> restored replicas and rejoined partitions but it is written in terms
> of a log-based implementation using a different purging mechanism.
> I'm still in the process of recasting it in state-based terms with
> an update vector.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> [Albert]
> My reference to "relying on timestamps and allowing DSAs to
> transmit changes out of order and drop changes when clocks are out
> of sync" should be read as a single sentence. Clocks are not
> necessarily even monotonically increasing because they sometimes
> jump around when administrators make mistakes, eg with time zone
> and daylight savings settings.

You should read section 5.1 of draft-ietf-ldup-urp-03.txt again.
The CSNs aren't always generated straight from the system clock.
URP imposes constraints on the generation of CSNs so that they are
monotonically increasing from replication session to replication session
despite a system clock that isn't.

The references in the architecture draft to rejecting update operations
need a bit of work. There is some confusion and ambiguity there about
whether client updates or replication updates or both are being rejected.
Eventual consistency can't be guaranteed if any replication updates are
just arbitrarily dropped. We can reject a whole replication session if
there are seriously different CSNs appearing provided no Update Vectors are
revised, and provided we have an administrative procedure for repairing
the situation. In effect the rogue server is shunned and the purge point
stops advancing until corrective action is taken. The action to be
taken would need to covered in the draft on replica administration.  

Servers are only permitted to send changes from a particular server
out of order within the same replication session. All changes from that
server in earlier sessions must have had lower CSNs and all changes
reported in later sessions must have higher CSNs. Some LDUPers didn't
want to require in order sending within a session and I'm okay with that
since we can allow for it without breaking consistency. Any of the
following replication consumer strategies will ensure eventual consistency.

1) Receive the primitives into temporary storage, sort them, then start
applying them in order, progressively updating the Update Vector, and
committing to the database after each group of primitives with the same
CSN (i.e. each operation). Send the final Update Vector back to the
supplier at the end. If there is a failure part way through the consumer
will start from where it got up to, on the next replication session.

2) Run the replication session as a single local transaction. Apply
the primitives as they arrive, but don't commit the transaction until
the end. The new Update Vector is committed as part of the transaction
before being sent back to the supplier. If there is a failure part way
through, the transaction is rolled back (or not recovered on restart).
The consumer will start from the same point as the previous (failed)
session, on the next replication session.

3) Apply the primitives as they arrive, committing after each operation
group, but don't change the Update Vector until the end. If there is
a failure part way through, the consumer's Update Vector won't have
changed, so the supplier will send the same set of primitives on the next
replication session. URP handles primitives that are repeated or out of
sequence so the correct final outcome will be reached. The consumer must
not send any primitives from a failed session to any other server but that
is easy to prevent. These primitives will have CSNs greater than the
current local Update Vector.

4) Receive the primitives into persistent temporary storage and return a
revised Update Vector straight away. The consumer then applies the
primitives to the DIB at its leisure. In any subsequent replication
session where it acts as the supplier the server would have to be able
to send primitives still residing only in the temporary store.

[snip]
 
> My proposal, based on a similar vector to the current LDUP drafts,
> does take account of the purging mechanism - it
> prevents a purge at *any* replica until after *every* replica has
> received the change. It does so, precisely for the reason you 
> mentioned.

But if you restore any server from an old backup then the correctness
of the purging mechanism is compromised because you have introduced
a server that appears as though it hasn't received changes that the
other servers were previously told it had.

Suppose some entry E is at version 1 when I take backups of a set
of replicas. As time passes, entry E is progressively updated and
successive versions eventually become durable. Let's suppose that
the durable version of E is version 53 when one of the replicas dies,
forcing a restore. In its restored database, entry E has the version 1.
The restored server will now receive changes referencing version 54+.
I could see nothing in MDCR that would allow the restored server to
bridge the gap between version 1 and version 53 of entry E. The sequence
of changes up to version 53 have been lost to purging.

> 
> The solution I proposed is based on existing implementations
> (Coda and AD) that have been thoroughly researched and tested
> and are known to work and to have a number of advantages. For
> marketing purposes, AD also describes that as "state based"
> rather than "log based", by coyly calling the log an "index". I prefer
> to stick to the technical necessities and leave marketing doubletalk
> to others.
> 
> That proposal separates report propagation from update 
> processing and so
> would be equally applicable to URP or MDCR. It also enables a natural
> transition from single master to multi-master implementations 
> instead of
> attempting to force implementation of multi-master as the current LDUP
> proposals do.
> 
> The Coda mechanism relies on the fact that change reports are 
> transmitted
> in order and relies on version numbers rather than timestamps.
> 
> If it used timestamps it would not work because clocks cannot be
> guaranteed monotonic.
> 
> If you have some other mechanism that can also be proved to 
> work, but is
> somehow able to do it using timestamps and changes 
> transmitted in random
> order,
> that's quite an achievement as the Coda research was quite a 
> major project.
> I look forward to reading the draft but repeat my 
> recommendation that you
> study the Coda research.
> 
> As already stated, I do not believe this is a fundamental problem
> inherent in URP, since URP need not rely on timestamps.
> 
> There may well be other and better ways to do it, as long as we are
> agreed that it MUST be done. My description was certainly incomplete,
> as a protocol for determining which replicas are currently active
> and which are excluded is necessary for any method. I wrote it
> because in the current proposals the mechanism was not merely
> incomplete but absent, and there was explicit language about
> dropping updates. When I checked back to the requirements I found
> that what I thought was common ground in assuming a requirement for
> eventual convergence, was so vague that simply dropping updates
> and leaving replicas with different states for the same entries
> could arguably be consistent with the stated requirements.

[snip]

> The current wording says the scope includes two models, "Eventual
> Consistency" and "Limited Effort Eventual Consistency", defining the
> latter as "where replicas may purge updates therefore dropping
> propagation changes when some replica time boundary is exceeded, thus
> leaving some changes replicated to a portion of the replica topology".
> 
> Instead of ruling out the second, it explicitly says "LADP replication
> should be flexible enough to cover the above range of capabilities".
> The actual current drafts do "purge updates therefore 
> dropping propagation
> changes when some replica time boundary is exceeded, thus leaving some
> changes replicated to a portion of the replica topology."
> 
> A requirement "to be flexible enough to cover this" is "simply
> absurd". That is really an understatement.
> 
> Are we agreed that the final requirements draft should unambiguously
> require eventual convergence under ALL circumstances?

I agree. It's been my working assumption from the beginning.

[snip]

> [Issue E - modifiersName]

[snip]
 
> You've over estimated the utility of the modifiersName attribute.
> It only tells you who last changed something, not what they changed.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> [Albert]
> On a single master system, "modifiersName" tells you that what they
> changed is what was in the entry immediately before the change and
> what they could have read before making that change. If it wasn't
> broken before, then it broke because of that change by that DUA.

Not necessarily. There could have been any number of updates prior
to the latest one identifying the modifiersName. Any one of these
could be responsible for "breaking" the entry.

[snip]

Regards,
Steven



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 15 02:33:33 2000
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From: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
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At 03:32 PM 8/14/2000 -0700, Kurt D. Zeilenga wrote:
>At 02:19 PM 8/14/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
> >At 12:20 PM 8/14/2000 -0400, Rich Salz wrote:
> >>I thought Harald and I had reasonable examples of unsolicited return
> >>controls (e.g., "search results not legally binding" and "shift-JIS
> >>encoded") that made sense.
> >
> >Hmmm... All that I got out of that was that if the client didn't 
> understand the Japanese control then it would be gibberish.  Thus, the 
> client could safely ignore the control... Perhaps we need a new control 
> on the Bind operation that lists the Client's supported controls.  Then, 
> the server is not allowed to send back any unsupported controls.
>
>Why not have the server list the controls in supports in the
>Root DSE and have the client solicit which controls it desires
>to be returned.

Isn't that almost the same?  What's the difference between having the 
client solicit the controls it desires, and listing the Client's supported 
controls on the Bind.  There's no real need for the Client to consult the 
Root DSE.  If the client just lists it's supported controls, the list can 
be canned rather than produced later on.  Also, this would allow controls 
to supplied and returned on the Bind, and other operations without having 
to retrieve the Root DSE entry... Bruce

>Kurt

==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 15 02:49:40 2000
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To: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>,
        Bruce Greenblatt
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I agree with Kurt. The LDAP encoding of values (I thought) requires the use
of UTF-8. This is to avoid the need for negotiating the charset to be used.
If Shift-JIS is to be used then the encoding must be binary.

If Shift-JIS is to be allowed, the encoding of attribute values will have to
contain charset information. This would be good, for my next elaboration
would be to allow ASN.1 as an encoding of choice. Some work on the PDUs and,
voila!, DAP. (I'll help write the I-D!)

Ron.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kurt D. Zeilenga [mailto:Kurt@OpenLDAP.org]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2000 11:13
To: Bruce Greenblatt
Cc: Rich Salz; ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide


At 05:35 PM 8/14/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
>At 03:32 PM 8/14/2000 -0700, Kurt D. Zeilenga wrote:
>>At 02:19 PM 8/14/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
>>>At 12:20 PM 8/14/2000 -0400, Rich Salz wrote:
>>>>I thought Harald and I had reasonable examples of unsolicited return
>>>>controls (e.g., "search results not legally binding" and "shift-JIS
>>>>encoded") that made sense.
>>>
>>>Hmmm... All that I got out of that was that if the client didn't
understand the Japanese control then it would be gibberish.  Thus, the
client could safely ignore the control... Perhaps we need a new control on
the Bind operation that lists the Client's supported controls.  Then, the
server is not allowed to send back any unsupported controls.
>>
>>Why not have the server list the controls in supports in the
>>Root DSE and have the client solicit which controls it desires
>>to be returned.
>
>Isn't that almost the same?  What's the difference between having the
client solicit the controls it desires, and listing the Client's supported
controls on the Bind.

We already have a requirement to list controls in the RootDSE.
We don't need a second mechanism.

> There's no real need for the Client to consult the Root DSE.  If the
> client just lists it's supported controls, the list can be canned
> rather than produced later on.

A control can only alter the behavior of the operation it is attached
to:
   RFC2251, 4.1.12: Controls which are sent as part of a request
   apply only to that request and are not saved.

Also, the list would not be protected by the bind negotiated security
layers.  And the client list of supported controls may depend
upon other session state information (for example the loss of
TLS may cause a number of controls to be no longer supported by
the client).

However, this issue aside, the primary reason that unsolicited controls
should be avoided is the simple fact that LDAP is suppose to be
a lightweight request/response based protocol.  Unsolicited control
require clients to deal with stuff they didn't request, this is
unnecessary and undue weight.

I note that the purpose of controls is to extend operations.  If
the client does not request extension, none should be provided.

I also note that if you want to enable some behavior over the whole
session, you likely need to define an extended operation.  For
example, you want requests/responses to use Shift-JIS instead
of UTF-8, define a Shift-JIS extended operation which changes
the encoding/decoding of future operations (allowing both
Shift-JIS DNs and error text) (yuk!).  Likewise for the other
contrived examples.

If I were (I'm not) to support Shift-JIS, I'd only support it in
attribute values and I'd use a ";shift-JIS" transfer option OR
extend directoryString to include Shift-JIS encoding and use
";binary".

Kurt



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From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 15 03:10:26 2000
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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
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At 02:19 PM 8/14/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
>At 12:20 PM 8/14/2000 -0400, Rich Salz wrote:
>>I thought Harald and I had reasonable examples of unsolicited return
>>controls (e.g., "search results not legally binding" and "shift-JIS
>>encoded") that made sense.
>
>Hmmm... All that I got out of that was that if the client didn't understand the Japanese control then it would be gibberish.  Thus, the client could safely ignore the control... Perhaps we need a new control on the Bind operation that lists the Client's supported controls.  Then, the server is not allowed to send back any unsupported controls.

Why not have the server list the controls in supports in the
Root DSE and have the client solicit which controls it desires
to be returned. 

Kurt



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 15 03:35:22 2000
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To: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
Cc: Rich Salz <rsalz@caveosystems.com>, ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 05:35 PM 8/14/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
>At 03:32 PM 8/14/2000 -0700, Kurt D. Zeilenga wrote:
>>At 02:19 PM 8/14/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
>>>At 12:20 PM 8/14/2000 -0400, Rich Salz wrote:
>>>>I thought Harald and I had reasonable examples of unsolicited return
>>>>controls (e.g., "search results not legally binding" and "shift-JIS
>>>>encoded") that made sense.
>>>
>>>Hmmm... All that I got out of that was that if the client didn't understand the Japanese control then it would be gibberish.  Thus, the client could safely ignore the control... Perhaps we need a new control on the Bind operation that lists the Client's supported controls.  Then, the server is not allowed to send back any unsupported controls.
>>
>>Why not have the server list the controls in supports in the
>>Root DSE and have the client solicit which controls it desires
>>to be returned.
>
>Isn't that almost the same?  What's the difference between having the client solicit the controls it desires, and listing the Client's supported controls on the Bind.

We already have a requirement to list controls in the RootDSE.
We don't need a second mechanism.

> There's no real need for the Client to consult the Root DSE.  If the
> client just lists it's supported controls, the list can be canned
> rather than produced later on.

A control can only alter the behavior of the operation it is attached
to:
   RFC2251, 4.1.12: Controls which are sent as part of a request
   apply only to that request and are not saved.

Also, the list would not be protected by the bind negotiated security
layers.  And the client list of supported controls may depend
upon other session state information (for example the loss of
TLS may cause a number of controls to be no longer supported by
the client).

However, this issue aside, the primary reason that unsolicited controls
should be avoided is the simple fact that LDAP is suppose to be
a lightweight request/response based protocol.  Unsolicited control
require clients to deal with stuff they didn't request, this is
unnecessary and undue weight.

I note that the purpose of controls is to extend operations.  If
the client does not request extension, none should be provided.

I also note that if you want to enable some behavior over the whole
session, you likely need to define an extended operation.  For
example, you want requests/responses to use Shift-JIS instead
of UTF-8, define a Shift-JIS extended operation which changes
the encoding/decoding of future operations (allowing both
Shift-JIS DNs and error text) (yuk!).  Likewise for the other
contrived examples.

If I were (I'm not) to support Shift-JIS, I'd only support it in
attribute values and I'd use a ";shift-JIS" transfer option OR
extend directoryString to include Shift-JIS encoding and use
";binary".

Kurt



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From: "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
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Date forwarded: 	Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:54:00 -0700 (PDT)
Date sent:      	Mon, 07 Aug 2000 14:53:02 -0700
To:             	d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From:           	"Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>

> I think you do need two flags.

yep, you are right from your analysis below.
David

> 
> The criticality TRUE flags says the server must return
> unavailableCriticalExtension if it is unwilling or unable
> to attempt the operation as extended by the control.  If
> the server is willing and able to perform the operation
> as extended by the control, the criticality flag is
> irrelevant.
> 
> If there are alternative operation semantics, the control
> must provide information to control the semantics... such
> as the "partial" flag defined in this proposal.  So:
> 
> 1) the service is unwilling or unable to attempt the operation as
>    extended by the control.
>    If critical, return unavailableExtendedOperation.
>    Otherwise, process operation as if control was not specified.
> 
> 2) the service is willing and able to attempt the operation.
>    Critical flag is irrelevant.  Process per control semantics:
>    a) partial TRUE or
>    b) partial FALSE.
> 
> Kurt
> 
> 


***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
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X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

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From: "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
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I agree with Kurt that controls are there to modify individual 
operations and therefore putting them on the Bind is a nonsense. 
The client may perform some operations and not want the controls 
to take effect (e.g. duplicate entries) even though it supports them.

Thus a server should not send controls to the client if the client has 
not used them first on the operation. It follows from this that each 
operation request control needs to clearly specify which response 
controls may be applied by the server, but I guess we are already 
doing this in our extensions, although sometimes it might be implicit. 
This will need to be checked as the IDs move to proposed standard.

David

***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
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Date forwarded: 	Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
Date sent:      	Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:33:13 -0700
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From:           	Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
Subject:        	new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
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> Please publish the attached personal submission.  This is my first
> time using the Word template.  Hopefully, it is in a suitable
> format...  Note that this draft is not a response to anything in
> particular.  It just contains some general observations from watching
> the traffic in the ldapext mailing list, the prior ldap mailing list,
> and participation in X.500 and the long lost X.400 standardization
> efforts.  Comments are welcomed.

Bruce

one general and one specific comment regarding controls
On a general note, if the document is a style guide, it should give 
people general guidelines on how to produce IDs, but should not 
itself be defining new controls. i.e. the doc should only reference 
existing controls and not be defining new ones such as deferRoles 
and copySubtree. It should refer to other IDs in which these are 
defined.

A specific point is, can you add the sentence "when defining a 
control to be placed on an operation request, the specification must 
clearly specify which controls (if any) are allowed to be placed in 
the corresponding operation result"

David


> 
> Bruce


***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
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From: "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: mailing list for ELSE (Evolving Ldap Schema Entries)
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Date forwarded: 	Tue, 8 Aug 2000 06:26:02 -0700 (PDT)
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> A mailing list has been set up for continuing the discussion from the
> informally-held BOF session on evolving ldap schema entries (see below
> to subscribe).

Ellen

As I pointed out at the Pittsburg meeting, the problem statement in 
the slides is not 100% correct,as X.500 DAP does have a 
mechanism for updating schema elements by protocol, and for 
marking schema elements as obsolete

David

> 
> The consensus at this session was that this is a worthwhile topic to
> pursue and discussion will continue on the new mailing list below.  It
> was also agreed that a charter will be developed and a request to
> either schedule a BOF, a separate Workgroup, or a new workitem to the
> existing ldapext workgroup at the December San Diego IETF meeting.
> 
> Attached are the working slides from this BOF session.  They are also
> posted in the ELSE archive.
> 
> Ellen
> 
> 
> 
> >Post: mailto:ietf-else@OpenLDAP.org
> >Subscribe: mailto:ietf-else-request@OpenLDAP.org?body=subscribe
> >Unsubscribe: mailto:ietf-else-request@OpenLDAP.org?body=unsubscribe
> >Policy: Posts submitted from non-subscribers require moderator
> >approval Archive: http://www.openldap.org/lists/ietf-else/
> 


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David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
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Date sent:      	Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:40:28 -0700
To:             	"Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
From:           	"Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>

> The choices could be clarified as follows:
> 
>   a) all entries within scope are duplicated (per the
>   control) which match the filter may be returned by the
>   server (subject to other factors)
> 
>   b) all entries within scope and match the filter are
>   duplicated (per the control) and may be returned by the
>   server (subject to other factors).
> 

I personally thought that b) was always the intention of this control. 
i.e. it was to act on the way that the results of the search operation 
were returned, but was not meant to affect the operation of the 
search filter. If one considers that in many cases many thousands 
of entries are typically filtered down to only a handful, then 
duplication of the results with this control is only a small task, as 
opposed to a) where we have duplication of the thousands of 
entries and then the application of the filter to each of these. 

This is why I was surprised to see the addition of the sentence that 
I pointed out in my first message.

David

> That is, by "filtered" I meant to act of matching the
> entries against the filter, not the act of trimming results
> due to other factors.
> 
> > 
> >>>>That is,
> >>>>        a) all entries within scope are duplicated per the
> >>>>        control,
> >>>>      then filtered.
> >>>>
> >>>>        b) all entries within scope are filtered, then duplicated
> >>>>        per the control.
> >>>>
> 
> BTW, I'd avoid the a v. b BOOLEAN if at all possible.
> 


***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
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To: d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk, ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
From: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
Cc: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 05:44 PM 8/15/2000 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:

>one general and one specific comment regarding controls
>On a general note, if the document is a style guide, it should give
>people general guidelines on how to produce IDs, but should not
>itself be defining new controls. i.e. the doc should only reference
>existing controls and not be defining new ones such as deferRoles
>and copySubtree. It should refer to other IDs in which these are
>defined.

David,

Thanks for the comments...

This draft does not define new controls or extended operations.  In some 
instances, in the absence of well written documents that create appropriate 
definitions, examples are given that use hypothetical controls, etc.  In a 
future version, I will clarify that fact.

>A specific point is, can you add the sentence "when defining a
>control to be placed on an operation request, the specification must
>clearly specify which controls (if any) are allowed to be placed in
>the corresponding operation result"


Good idea.  I will include verbiage to that effect in the next revision.

>David
>
>
> >
> > Bruce
>
>
>***************************************************
>
>David Chadwick
>IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
>Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
>Mobile +44 790 167 0359
>Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
>Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
>Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
>X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
>Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J
>
>***************************************************

==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html



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To: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
Cc: d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk, ietf-ldapext@netscape.com,
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At 01:10 PM 8/15/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
>>A specific point is, can you add the sentence "when defining a
>>control to be placed on an operation request, the specification must
>>clearly specify which controls (if any) are allowed to be placed in
>>the corresponding operation result"
>
>
>Good idea.  I will include verbiage to that effect in the next revision.

Just one comment on this comment... "when extending an operation though
definition of one or more controls, the specification SHOULD clearly
specify interactions with other, previously-defined, extensions
(using other controls).  The specification MAY NOT restrict further
extension of the operation by placement of additional, yet to
be defined, controls."



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From: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
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At 05:43 PM 8/15/2000 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:
>I agree with Kurt that controls are there to modify individual
>operations and therefore putting them on the Bind is a nonsense.

I would not say that it is "a nonsense".  As it stands now, the Bind 
Operation does have an affect on every succeeding operation.  For example, 
the identity and the authentication mechanism in the Bind will result in 
different privileges and levels of access to the directory information.  It 
seems natural to me to include at the time of the bind a list of Controls 
that the client is willing to accept from the server.  The alternatives are 
I see it are:

- don't ever let the client tell the server
- include a list of acceptable controls with each operation request, 
assuming that the server is really stupid, and
   can't remember the list from one operation to the next.
- define a new extended operation that allows the client to submit a list 
of acceptable controls

I seem to remember in one of the draft versions of RFC 2251 that there was 
a way to set client options/defaults.  I'd thought that it was in the Bind 
someplace, but was later dropped.  Maybe one of the Marks (Smith or Wahl) 
can remember better (not that history matters that much).  This gives a way 
of allowing for controls which are not specifically solicited to be 
returned by the server, without the client having to specifically request them.

Perhaps it doesn't matter too much (as you say below), if each control 
definition includes the list of valid other controls that may be returned 
in the response, and unsolicited, unsupported controls are always ignored 
by the client.   Hopefully, the interaction amongst controls will not 
become too complex in the future.

>The client may perform some operations and not want the controls
>to take effect (e.g. duplicate entries) even though it supports them.
>
>Thus a server should not send controls to the client if the client has
>not used them first on the operation. It follows from this that each
>operation request control needs to clearly specify which response
>controls may be applied by the server, but I guess we are already
>doing this in our extensions, although sometimes it might be implicit.
>This will need to be checked as the IDs move to proposed standard.
>
>David
>
>***************************************************
>
>David Chadwick
>IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
>Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
>Mobile +44 790 167 0359
>Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
>Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
>Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
>X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
>Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J
>
>***************************************************

==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 15 16:40:57 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:36:55 -0700
To: d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
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At 05:44 PM 8/15/00 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:
>i.e. it was to act on the way that the results of the search operation 
>were returned, but was not meant to affect the operation of the 
>search filter. If one considers that in many cases many thousands 
>of entries are typically filtered down to only a handful, then 
>duplication of the results with this control is only a small task, as 
>opposed to a) where we have duplication of the thousands of 
>entries and then the application of the filter to each of these. 

a) sounds like lots more work, but in reality may not be (due to
indexing and/or other optimizations).  The server uses indexing
(as normal) to locate candidates, duplicates the candidates,
applies the filter, returns the results.

However, this shouldn't be the primary issue of a) v. b) (or both).

The issue should be what behavior do applications need and whether
a) or b) (or both) or other controls fulfill the need.  I think
we should take a step back and discuss background and intended
use information before choosing.

Kurt



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 15 16:51:38 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:46:34 -0700
To: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
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At 01:29 PM 8/15/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
>... and unsolicited, unsupported controls are always ignored by the client.

The server MUST assume that an unsupported control received by
the client will cause undefined behavior as RFC2251 does not
define the behavior.  Hence, a server SHOULD NOT sent any
control to the client for which it does not known (via
whatever means) the client supports.

Kurt



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 15 17:00:28 2000
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From: pmoore@peerless.com
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:56:33 -0700
Subject: C API I-D
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What has happened to the c api spec? Its no longer mentiononed on the WG IETF
web page, nor is it an I-D or an RFC or in the RFC editor queue.

Is there a more recent version than 4?

Thanks in advance

Paul Moore




From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 15 23:38:58 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:36:45 -0600
From: "Haripriya S" <SHARIPRIYA@novell.com>
To: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
Subject: New draft - LDAP control for modify and delete on multiple
	entries
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This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to 
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to 
properly handle MIME multipart messages.

--=_83DB2D44.6B0A64D4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I have submitted a draft titled "EntrySelection control for LDAP modify =
and delete operations on multiple entries". It is available at http://www.i=
etf.org/internet-drafts/draft-haripriya-ldapext-entryselect-00.txt  . =
Please go through this and give your comments.=20

Thanks and Regards,
Haripriya

--=_83DB2D44.6B0A64D4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: =
2px">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>I have submitted a draft titled "EntrySelection =
control for=20
LDAP modify and delete operations on multiple entries". It is available at =
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-haripriya-ldapext-entryse=
lect-00.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-haripriya-ldapext-en=
tryselect-00.txt</A>&nbsp;=20
. Please go through this and give your comments. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Thanks and Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Haripriya</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_83DB2D44.6B0A64D4--



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 08:55:15 2000
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From: "Miklos, Sue A." <samiklo@missi.ncsc.mil>
To: "'Bruce Greenblatt'" <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>,
        ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
Subject: RE: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:52:57 -0400
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clarification request, please - I interpret the first statement below (Bind
discussion) to indicate that any authentication/authorization information is
ONLY conveyed during the Bind argument/response exchange.  Is this correct?
Can subsequent operations also convey information useful to an access
control decision function?

regards,
Sandi

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Greenblatt [mailto:bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 4:30 PM
To: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide


At 05:43 PM 8/15/2000 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:
>I agree with Kurt that controls are there to modify individual
>operations and therefore putting them on the Bind is a nonsense.

I would not say that it is "a nonsense".  As it stands now, the Bind 
Operation does have an affect on every succeeding operation.  For example, 
the identity and the authentication mechanism in the Bind will result in 
different privileges and levels of access to the directory information.  It 
seems natural to me to include at the time of the bind a list of Controls 
that the client is willing to accept from the server.  The alternatives are 
I see it are:

- don't ever let the client tell the server
- include a list of acceptable controls with each operation request, 
assuming that the server is really stupid, and
   can't remember the list from one operation to the next.
- define a new extended operation that allows the client to submit a list 
of acceptable controls

I seem to remember in one of the draft versions of RFC 2251 that there was 
a way to set client options/defaults.  I'd thought that it was in the Bind 
someplace, but was later dropped.  Maybe one of the Marks (Smith or Wahl) 
can remember better (not that history matters that much).  This gives a way 
of allowing for controls which are not specifically solicited to be 
returned by the server, without the client having to specifically request
them.

Perhaps it doesn't matter too much (as you say below), if each control 
definition includes the list of valid other controls that may be returned 
in the response, and unsolicited, unsupported controls are always ignored 
by the client.   Hopefully, the interaction amongst controls will not 
become too complex in the future.

>The client may perform some operations and not want the controls
>to take effect (e.g. duplicate entries) even though it supports them.
>
>Thus a server should not send controls to the client if the client has
>not used them first on the operation. It follows from this that each
>operation request control needs to clearly specify which response
>controls may be applied by the server, but I guess we are already
>doing this in our extensions, although sometimes it might be implicit.
>This will need to be checked as the IDs move to proposed standard.
>
>David
>
>***************************************************
>
>David Chadwick
>IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
>Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
>Mobile +44 790 167 0359
>Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
>Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
>Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
>X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
>Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J
>
>***************************************************

==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html



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From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 10:07:17 2000
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From: "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
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> I would not say that it is "a nonsense".  

I thought I had given a good example of where it was not a sensible 
strategy to be adopted by a server, for example, using the duplicate 
entries control in a Search result when the client did not ask for it on 
the Search request, but had said on the Bind that it can support this 
control. It is completely inappropriate in my opinion for the Server to 
spontaneously change the behaviour of an operation without being 
asked to by the client.

My viewpoint is that a control is a "tweak" on an operation asked 
for by the client, and the server may be able to offer this "tweaked" 
service or not. But the server must always offer the standard 
service if no tweak is requested. 

> The alternatives are I see it are:
> 
> - don't ever let the client tell the server
> - include a list of acceptable controls with each operation request,
> assuming that the server is really stupid, and
>    can't remember the list from one operation to the next.
> - define a new extended operation that allows the client to submit a
> list of acceptable controls

there is the obvious alternative missing from your list, which we 
have now, ie. the client specifies which control it wants on each 
individual operation :-)

David

***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************



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Organization: University of Salford
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> The issue should be what behavior do applications need and whether a)
> or b) (or both) or other controls fulfill the need.  I think we should
> take a step back and discuss background and intended use information
> before choosing.
> 

Agreed. The usage scenario that I have heard is producing a paper 
telephone directory, where you want one line for each telephone 
number, so that people may be listed several times in the directory. 
If the entry is only returned once with multiple values (as in the 
standard Search), this does not produce the desired result. I cannot 
remember another usage scenario being presented, but maybe 
others can?

David


> Kurt
> 
> 


***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 10:48:13 2000
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To: d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
Cc: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>,
        ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 03:04 PM 8/16/00 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:

>> I would not say that it is "a nonsense".  
>
>I thought I had given a good example of where it was not a sensible 
>strategy to be adopted by a server, for example, using the duplicate 
>entries control in a Search result when the client did not ask for it on 
>the Search request, but had said on the Bind that it can support this 
>control.

But please note that control upon on bind operation are
not protected by the privacy and integrity negotiated by
the bind operation itself.  This must be taken into
consideration.

Also, the Bind resultCode should be a clear indicate of authentication/authorization result and not overload with
extension negotiation.

Lastly, RFC2251 places specific restrictions upon the uses
of request controls which must be taken into consideration.

Controls upon the bind operation should be avoided.  Extended
operations is more suitable mechanism for extending "the session".
StartTLS is a good example of such.

Kurt




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To: d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
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At 03:04 PM 8/16/00 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:

>> The issue should be what behavior do applications need and whether a)
>> or b) (or both) or other controls fulfill the need.  I think we should
>> take a step back and discuss background and intended use information
>> before choosing.
>> 
>
>Agreed. The usage scenario that I have heard is producing a paper 
>telephone directory, where you want one line for each telephone 
>number, so that people may be listed several times in the directory. 
>If the entry is only returned once with multiple values (as in the 
>standard Search), this does not produce the desired result. I cannot 
>remember another usage scenario being presented, but maybe 
>others can?

My scenario is similar, I wanted to be able to search the
directory for entries listing a specific area code and where
the entry contained multiple values with this area code are
returned as duplicated entries.  I only want and desire any
duplicates of containing a value within the desired area
code.  (One could call this "matched" duplicated entries).

Kurt



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From: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
To: <Kurt@openldap.org>, <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
Mime-Version: 1.0
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This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to 
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to 
properly handle MIME multipart messages.

--=_C1996FCB.D8B9D688
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

These examples do reflect the original intent of the I-D. While writing =
it, I had assumed the behavior previously discussed as a) (filter, =
duplicate, return). Given the usefulness of Kurt's example, I changed it =
to b) [filter, duplicate, filter, return (if your server can do this more =
efficiently, more power to ya)]. Then the notion of a flag was introduced.

I think a better alternative is to have the behavior be a) (which in my =
mind is simpler to implement), then allow use of the matched values =
control to produce the results of b). This way we are back to two separate =
controls that have non-overlapping specific functionality. If we agree to =
this proposal, I'll add appropriate text to the Interaction With Other =
Controls section.

Jim

>>> "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org> 8/16/00 9:07:04 AM >>>
At 03:04 PM 8/16/00 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:

>> The issue should be what behavior do applications need and whether a)
>> or b) (or both) or other controls fulfill the need.  I think we should
>> take a step back and discuss background and intended use information
>> before choosing.
>>=20
>
>Agreed. The usage scenario that I have heard is producing a paper=20
>telephone directory, where you want one line for each telephone=20
>number, so that people may be listed several times in the directory.=20
>If the entry is only returned once with multiple values (as in the=20
>standard Search), this does not produce the desired result. I cannot=20
>remember another usage scenario being presented, but maybe=20
>others can?

My scenario is similar, I wanted to be able to search the
directory for entries listing a specific area code and where
the entry contained multiple values with this area code are
returned as duplicated entries.  I only want and desire any
duplicates of containing a value within the desired area
code.  (One could call this "matched" duplicated entries).

Kurt

--=_C1996FCB.D8B9D688
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>These examples do reflect the original intent of the =
I-D.=20
While writing it, I had assumed the behavior previously discussed as a) =
(filter,=20
duplicate, return). Given the usefulness of Kurt's example, I changed it =
to b)=20
[filter, duplicate, filter, return (if your server can do this more =
efficiently,=20
more power to ya)]. Then the notion of a flag was introduced.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>I think a better alternative is to have the behavior =
be a)=20
(which in my mind is simpler to implement), then allow use of the matched =
values=20
control to produce the results of b). This way we are back to two=20
separate&nbsp;controls that have non-overlapping specific functionality. =
If we=20
agree to this proposal, I'll add appropriate text to the Interaction With =
Other=20
Controls section.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; "Kurt D. Zeilenga"=20
&lt;Kurt@OpenLDAP.org&gt; 8/16/00 9:07:04 AM &gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>At 03:04 PM =
8/16/00=20
+0100, David Chadwick wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The issue should be what =
behavior=20
do applications need and whether a)<BR>&gt;&gt; or b) (or both) or =
other=20
controls fulfill the need.&nbsp; I think we should<BR>&gt;&gt; take a step =
back=20
and discuss background and intended use information<BR>&gt;&gt; before=20
choosing.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Agreed. The usage scenario that I =
have=20
heard is producing a paper <BR>&gt;telephone directory, where you want one =
line=20
for each telephone <BR>&gt;number, so that people may be listed several =
times in=20
the directory. <BR>&gt;If the entry is only returned once with multiple =
values=20
(as in the <BR>&gt;standard Search), this does not produce the desired =
result. I=20
cannot <BR>&gt;remember another usage scenario being presented, but =
maybe=20
<BR>&gt;others can?<BR><BR>My scenario is similar, I wanted to be able to =
search=20
the<BR>directory for entries listing a specific area code and where<BR>the =
entry=20
contained multiple values with this area code are<BR>returned as duplicated=
=20
entries.&nbsp; I only want and desire any<BR>duplicates of containing a =
value=20
within the desired area<BR>code.&nbsp; (One could call this "matched" =
duplicated=20
entries).<BR><BR>Kurt<BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_C1996FCB.D8B9D688--



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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:53:48 -0700
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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
Cc: <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>, <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
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--=====================_62862441==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:31 AM 8/16/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:
>These examples do reflect the original intent of the I-D. While writing it, I had assumed the behavior previously discussed as a) (filter, duplicate, return). Given the usefulness of Kurt's example, I changed it to b) [filter, duplicate, filter, return (if your server can do this more efficiently, more power to ya)]. Then the notion of a flag was introduced.
> 
>I think a better alternative is to have the behavior be a) (which in my mind is simpler to implement), then allow use of the matched values control to produce the results of b). This way we are back to two separate controls that have non-overlapping specific functionality. If we agree to this proposal, I'll add appropriate text to the Interaction With Other Controls section.

I do prefer two separate controls as I believe it easier to describe
control combination semantics.

duplicate-entries:  filter, dup, return results
matched-values:  filter, trim, return results

duplicate-entries+matched-values: filter, dup, trim, return results
matched-values+duplicate-entries: filter, trim, dup, return results

other combinations?
--=====================_62862441==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
At 10:31 AM 8/16/00 -0600, Jim Sermersheim wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><font size=1>These examples do reflect the
original intent of the I-D. While writing it, I had assumed the behavior
previously discussed as a) (filter, duplicate, return). Given the
usefulness of Kurt's example, I changed it to b) [filter, duplicate,
filter, return (if your server can do this more efficiently, more power
to ya)]. Then the notion of a flag was introduced.</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=1>I think a better alternative is to have the behavior be a)
(which in my mind is simpler to implement), then allow use of the matched
values control to produce the results of b). This way we are back to two
separate controls that have non-overlapping specific functionality. If we
agree to this proposal, I'll add appropriate text to the Interaction With
Other Controls section.</font></blockquote><br>
I do prefer two separate controls as I believe it easier to 
describe<br>
control combination semantics.<br>
<br>
duplicate-entries:&nbsp; filter, dup, return results<br>
matched-values:&nbsp; filter, trim, return results<br>
<br>
duplicate-entries+matched-values: filter, dup, trim, return results<br>
matched-values+duplicate-entries: filter, trim, dup, return results<br>
<br>
other combinations?</html>

--=====================_62862441==_.ALT--



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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:27:52 -0700
To: "Haripriya S" <SHARIPRIYA@novell.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: New draft - LDAP control for modify and delete on multiple
  entries
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
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Is the (modify/delete) operation still performed as an atomic
operation?

I find the use of controls to return continuations awkward at
best.  Such controls which extend operations which the "scope"
of existing operations should use extended partial responses
to return "continuations".  In fact, I don't see why we need
separate controls/responses for each of these operation.  I,
personally, would rather see:

A) extendedPartialResponses generalized such that they may
returned in response to any operation (after appropriate
client solicitation).

B) scopingControl be defined to allow specification of 
"scope" information (allowing use of "one" and "subtree"
scopes).  Per entry/continuation responses may be returned.

C) filterControl be defined to allow specification of a
filter which must match before performing operation.
Per entry/continuation responses may be returned.

I would note that such extensions must be very explicit
in regards to "atomic" properties of the "operation".  I
would recommend that only entry level atomic properties be
maintained, not operation level atomic properties.

At 09:36 PM 8/15/00 -0600, Haripriya S wrote:
> 
>I have submitted a draft titled "EntrySelection control for LDAP modify and delete operations on multiple entries". It is available at <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-haripriya-ldapext-entryselect-00.txt>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-haripriya-ldapext-entryselect-00.txt  . Please go through this and give your comments. 
> 
>Thanks and Regards,
>Haripriya

--=====================_64910616==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
Is the (modify/delete) operation still performed as an atomic<br>
operation?<br>
<br>
I find the use of controls to return continuations awkward at<br>
best.&nbsp; Such controls which extend operations which the
&quot;scope&quot;<br>
of existing operations should use extended partial responses<br>
to return &quot;continuations&quot;.&nbsp; In fact, I don't see why we
need<br>
separate controls/responses for each of these operation.&nbsp; I,<br>
personally, would rather see:<br>
<br>
A) extendedPartialResponses generalized such that they may<br>
returned in response to any operation (after appropriate<br>
client solicitation).<br>
<br>
B) scopingControl be defined to allow specification of <br>
&quot;scope&quot; information (allowing use of &quot;one&quot; and
&quot;subtree&quot;<br>
scopes).&nbsp; Per entry/continuation responses may be returned.<br>
<br>
C) filterControl be defined to allow specification of a<br>
filter which must match before performing operation.<br>
Per entry/continuation responses may be returned.<br>
<br>
I would note that such extensions must be very explicit<br>
in regards to &quot;atomic&quot; properties of the
&quot;operation&quot;.&nbsp; I<br>
would recommend that only entry level atomic properties be<br>
maintained, not operation level atomic properties.<br>
<br>
At 09:36 PM 8/15/00 -0600, Haripriya S wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>&nbsp;<br>
<font size=1>I have submitted a draft titled &quot;EntrySelection control
for LDAP modify and delete operations on multiple entries&quot;. It is
available at
<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-haripriya-ldapext-entryselect-00.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-haripriya-ldapext-entryselect-00.txt</a>&nbsp;
. Please go through this and give your comments. </font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=1>Thanks and Regards,</font><br>
<font size=1>Haripriya</font></blockquote></html>

--=====================_64910616==_.ALT--



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 13:59:48 2000
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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:57:22 -0600
From: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
To: <Kurt@openldap.org>
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
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This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to 
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to 
properly handle MIME multipart messages.

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>>> "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org> 8/16/00 10:53:48 AM >>>

>>=20
>>I think a better alternative is to have the behavior be a) (which in my =
mind is simpler to implement), then allow use of the matched values =
control to produce the results of b). This way we are back to two separate =
controls that have non-overlapping specific functionality. If we agree to =
this proposal, I'll add appropriate text to the Interaction With Other =
Controls section.
>
>I do prefer two separate controls as I believe it easier to describe
>control combination semantics.
>
>duplicate-entries:  filter, dup, return results
>matched-values:  filter, trim, return results
>
>duplicate-entries+matched-values: filter, dup, trim, return results
>matched-values+duplicate-entries: filter, trim, dup, return results
>
>other combinations?

I think the duplicate entries draft would (in the interaction with other =
controls section) state something like "When this control is paired with =
the matched values control, this control MUST be applied first..." then =
probably expound using an example. The net effect being filter, dup, trim, =
return.

Jim

--=_0B53A516.7A1B7441
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">&gt;&g=
t;&gt;=20
"Kurt D. Zeilenga" &lt;Kurt@OpenLDAP.org&gt; 8/16/00 10:53:48 AM=20
&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>
<DIV>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;I think a better alternative is to have the =
behavior=20
be a) (which in my mind is simpler to implement), then allow use of the =
matched=20
values control to produce the results of b). This way we are back to =
two=20
separate controls that have non-overlapping specific functionality. If we =
agree=20
to this proposal, I'll add appropriate text to the Interaction With =
Other=20
Controls section.</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;I do prefer two separate controls as I believe it easier to=20
describe<BR>&gt;control combination semantics.</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;duplicate-entries:&nbsp; filter, dup, return=20
results<BR>&gt;matched-values:&nbsp; filter, trim, return results</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;duplicate-entries+matched-values: filter, dup, trim, return=20
results<BR>&gt;matched-values+duplicate-entries: filter, trim, dup, =
return=20
results</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;other combinations?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I think the duplicate entries draft would (in the interaction with =
other=20
controls section) state something like "When this control is paired with =
the=20
matched values control, this control MUST be applied first..." then =
probably=20
expound using an example. The net effect being filter, dup, trim, =
return.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jim</DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_0B53A516.7A1B7441--



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 14:19:18 2000
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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:15:07 -0700
To: "Miklos, Sue A." <samiklo@missi.ncsc.mil>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: RE: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
Cc: "'Bruce Greenblatt'" <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>,
        ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 08:52 AM 8/16/00 -0400, Miklos, Sue A. wrote:
>clarification request, please - I interpret the first statement below (Bind
>discussion) to indicate that any authentication/authorization information is
>ONLY conveyed during the Bind argument/response exchange.  Is this correct?

No.  The restriction is that controls upon requests only impact
the operation associated with the request.  This does not
imply that Bind is the only operation which may convey
authentication/authorization information.

>Can subsequent operations also convey information useful to an access
>control decision function?

Yes.  Request control can convey such in the context of the
operation they are attached to.  And one can define extended
operations which convey such information.  And, of course,
the access control may use other factors in the decision
function (such as IP host/port, sky is green, msgid is prime).

Kurt



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At 07:43 AM 8/16/2000 -0700, Kurt D. Zeilenga wrote:

>But please note that control upon on bind operation are
>not protected by the privacy and integrity negotiated by
>the bind operation itself.  This must be taken into
>consideration.

This is a good point.  I will add this to the Style Guide.  If controls are 
passed on the Bind that need privacy and/or integrity protection, a TLS 
session SHOULD be negotiated prior to the Bind.
==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html



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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
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At 11:23 AM 8/16/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
>At 07:43 AM 8/16/2000 -0700, Kurt D. Zeilenga wrote:
>
>>But please note that control upon on bind operation are
>>not protected by the privacy and integrity negotiated by
>>the bind operation itself.  This must be taken into
>>consideration.
>
>This is a good point.  I will add this to the Style Guide.  If controls are passed on the Bind that need privacy and/or integrity protection, a TLS session SHOULD be negotiated prior to the Bind.

I suggest:
  Control information provided during a Bind or StartTLS
  operations are not protected by security services (e.g.
  privacy and/or integrity protection) negotiated by that
  operation.  If such services are desired (or required),
  they must be established prior to operation.



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 15:43:44 2000
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Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
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At 03:04 PM 8/16/2000 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:
> >
> > - don't ever let the client tell the server
> > - include a list of acceptable controls with each operation request,
> > assuming that the server is really stupid, and
> >    can't remember the list from one operation to the next.
> > - define a new extended operation that allows the client to submit a
> > list of acceptable controls
>
>there is the obvious alternative missing from your list, which we
>have now, ie. the client specifies which control it wants on each
>individual operation :-)

But, that doesn't help the server in placing controls on notifications, and 
other controls not specifically solicited.  Of course, that may be a good 
thing...


==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 16:47:37 2000
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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: new internet draft - LDAP Extensions Style Guide
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At 12:36 PM 8/16/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
>At 03:04 PM 8/16/2000 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:
>>>
>>> - don't ever let the client tell the server
>>> - include a list of acceptable controls with each operation request,
>>> assuming that the server is really stupid, and
>>>    can't remember the list from one operation to the next.
>>> - define a new extended operation that allows the client to submit a
>>> list of acceptable controls
>>
>>there is the obvious alternative missing from your list, which we
>>have now, ie. the client specifies which control it wants on each
>>individual operation :-)
>
>But, that doesn't help the server in placing controls on notifications,
>and other controls not specifically solicited.  Of course, that may be a good thing...

I think we need to refocus this thread on the Style Guide.
The Style Guide should impart our operational experience upon
the reader to help the reader design extensions.  I believe
the guide should state that unsolicited extensions (that is,
controls which client has not indicated support for)
are out of scope.  This should include notifications which
are returned without some prior indication of support by the
client.

We are gaining operational experience with notifications
which are returned only with prior indication of support.
In particular, my transaction/grouping I-Ds demonstrate the
use of notices; we hope to have operational experience soon.
There may other examples.

Note, however, we should be careful in regard to our operational
experience with the Notice of Disconnect in writing this guide.
Though Notice of Disconnect is an extended operation, it is not
an "extension".  That is, it is a integral part of LDAPv3.  And,
if anything, our operational experience has demonstrated that
returning this notice without indication of LDAP3 support can
be problematic. (In particular when the Notice is sent to an
LDAPv2 client before the bind request was received.  The client
often will report a protocol error, not a disconnect, to the
user.)


Kurt



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From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 17:03:11 2000
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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:59:08 -0700
To: pmoore@peerless.com
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: C API I-D
Cc: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 01:56 PM 8/15/00 -0700, pmoore@peerless.com wrote:
>What has happened to the c api spec?

There is no current I-D for the work item.  IIRC, the WG
is due a summary of outstanding issues and recommendations
from the "engineering team" assembled to discuss/resolve these
issues.  I believe Mark Smith, the document editor, is
working on this summary.  However, Mark is on sabbatical at the
moment, so I'd suspect there will be some further delay
before the summary is posted.

>Its no longer mentiononed on the WG IETF web page,

C API is still listed as a work item of the WG and, I
believe, it's still be worked.  It's just that there is
no current I-D for this work item.

>Is there a more recent version than 4?

There is currently on IETF C API I-D, rev 04 was the last
to be removed from the repository.

Kurt



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Subject: Re: C API I-D
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At 01:59 PM 8/16/00 -0700, Kurt D. Zeilenga wrote:
>At 01:56 PM 8/15/00 -0700, pmoore@peerless.com wrote:
>>What has happened to the c api spec?
>
>There is no current I-D for the work item.  IIRC, the WG
>is due a summary of outstanding issues and recommendations
>from the "engineering team" assembled to discuss/resolve these
>issues.  I believe Mark Smith, the document editor, is
>working on this summary.  However, Mark is on sabbatical at the
>moment, so I'd suspect there will be some further delay
>before the summary is posted.

FYI, Mark actually posted a message detailing some of the issues
in a previous thread "IETF LDAPEXT WG draft agenda":
  http://www.openldap.org/lists/ietf-ldapext/200007/msg00290.html

Though this could be yet another demonstration of my fogged memory,
I'm thought Mark was working on a summary of the engineering
teams discussions (which have concluded).  The summary should
enumerated each of the major issues discussed and the outcome
of those discussions (including any specific recommendations).

Kurt




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From: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
Subject: LDAP Extension Style Guide, re interaction between controls
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Kurt,

A few days ago, you wrote:

>Just one comment on this comment... "when extending an operation though
>definition of one or more controls, the specification SHOULD clearly
>specify interactions with other, previously-defined, extensions
>(using other controls).  The specification MAY NOT restrict further
>extension of the operation by placement of additional, yet to
>be defined, controls."

I suddenly realize that I don't understand your last sentence.  Can you 
please clarify with an example?  Thanks,

Bruce

==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 18:36:18 2000
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From: "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Salford
To: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>, <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>,
        <Kurt@openldap.org>, <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
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Date sent:      	Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:31:18 -0600
From:           	"Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
To:             	<Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>,<d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Copies to:      	<ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
Subject:        	Re: Duplicate entries filter

> These examples do reflect the original intent of the I-D. While
> writing it, I had assumed the behavior previously discussed as a)
> (filter, duplicate, return). Given the usefulness of Kurt's example, I
> changed it to b) [filter, duplicate, filter, return (if your server
> can do this more efficiently, more power to ya)]. Then the notion of a
> flag was introduced.

Jim,
two points

i) I note that in both a) and b) above you never mention (duplicate, 
filter, return) which was one of the earlier threads that was being 
discussed. Is this option finally being laid to rest? I hope so.

ii) for option b) by combining duplicate entries and matched values 
we actually have (search filter, duplicate, match filter, return) which 
is more powerful than using the same filter in both instances. And 
as Kurt pointed out, we can alternate the ordering of the duplication 
and match filter (although this probably will not give different results 
except for the case of when an empty set of attributes is returned. 
With duplicate followed by match you could get identical entries 
returned several times, containing an attribute with no values)

David


> 
> I think a better alternative is to have the behavior be a) (which in
> my mind is simpler to implement), then allow use of the matched values
> control to produce the results of b). This way we are back to two
> separate controls that have non-overlapping specific functionality. If
> we agree to this proposal, I'll add appropriate text to the
> Interaction With Other Controls section.
> 
> Jim
> 
> >>> "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org> 8/16/00 9:07:04 AM >>>
> At 03:04 PM 8/16/00 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:
> 
> >> The issue should be what behavior do applications need and whether
> >> a) or b) (or both) or other controls fulfill the need.  I think we
> >> should take a step back and discuss background and intended use
> >> information before choosing.
> >> 
> >
> >Agreed. The usage scenario that I have heard is producing a paper
> >telephone directory, where you want one line for each telephone
> >number, so that people may be listed several times in the directory.
> >If the entry is only returned once with multiple values (as in the
> >standard Search), this does not produce the desired result. I cannot
> >remember another usage scenario being presented, but maybe others
> >can?
> 
> My scenario is similar, I wanted to be able to search the
> directory for entries listing a specific area code and where
> the entry contained multiple values with this area code are
> returned as duplicated entries.  I only want and desire any
> duplicates of containing a value within the desired area
> code.  (One could call this "matched" duplicated entries).
> 
> Kurt
> 


***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 19:04:48 2000
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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:00:31 -0700
To: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: LDAP Extension Style Guide, re interaction between controls
Cc: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 03:08 PM 8/16/00 -0700, Bruce Greenblatt wrote:
>Kurt,
>
>A few days ago, you wrote:
>
>>Just one comment on this comment... "when extending an operation though
>>definition of one or more controls, the specification SHOULD clearly
>>specify interactions with other, previously-defined, extensions
>>(using other controls).  The specification MAY NOT restrict further
>>extension of the operation by placement of additional, yet to
>>be defined, controls."
>
>I suddenly realize that I don't understand your last sentence.  Can you please clarify with an example?  Thanks,


First, let me state that I believe 2251 needs a clarification like
(needs much work, will note this for later LDAPbis discussions):
  "Controls SHOULD NOT be combined unless the semantics of the
  combination has been defined.  A server MAY ignore non-critical
  controls (even those it recognizes) to establish semantics
  of the operation (e.g. if two non-critical controls are combined,
  one or both may be ignored).  A server MUST NOT ignore any
  critical control (e.g. if one or more critical controls are
  combined with zero or more non-critical controls, the server MAY
  ignore any of the non-critical controls, but must perform the
  operation as defined by remaining controls.  If no semantics
  are defined for this remaining combination of controls, the
  server MUST return unavailableCriticalExtension"

Such a clarification would only require extensions to define
control combinations which make sense.  This would be consistent
with common practices.

Anyways, the last sentence was meant to indicate that any extension
may be further extended.  In particular, the specification should not
detail or restrict interactions with yet to defined controls.  If
such interactions are appropriate, the later defined control should
detail the semantics of the interaction.

It should be also noted that any attempt to say "This specification
SHALL NOT be updated by future specifications" is pointless
as the future specification can update that restriction away.

>>Just one comment on this comment... "when extending an operation though
>>definition of one or more controls, the specification SHOULD clearly
>>specify interactions with other, previously-defined, extensions
>>(using other controls).  The specification MAY NOT restrict further
>>extension of the operation by placement of additional, yet to
>>be defined, controls."



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 19:37:23 2000
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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: LDAP Extension Style Guide, re interaction between controls
Cc: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 04:00 PM 8/16/00 -0700, Kurt D. Zeilenga wrote:
>It should be also noted that any attempt to say "This specification
>SHALL NOT be updated by future specifications" is pointless
>as the future specification can update that restriction away.

But it is quite appropriate for a specification to limit
its scope and to indicate portions of the specifications
meant to be defined in future specifications.

Kurt



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 16 19:58:29 2000
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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries filter
Cc: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>, <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>,
        <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
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At 11:30 PM 8/16/00 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:
>Date sent:              Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:31:18 -0600
>From:                   "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
>To:                     <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>,<d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
>Copies to:              <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
>Subject:                Re: Duplicate entries filter
>
>> These examples do reflect the original intent of the I-D. While
>> writing it, I had assumed the behavior previously discussed as a)
>> (filter, duplicate, return). Given the usefulness of Kurt's example, I
>> changed it to b) [filter, duplicate, filter, return (if your server
>> can do this more efficiently, more power to ya)]. Then the notion of a
>> flag was introduced.
>
>Jim,
>two points
>
>i) I note that in both a) and b) above you never mention (duplicate, 
>filter, return) which was one of the earlier threads that was being 
>discussed. Is this option finally being laid to rest? I hope so.

Please...  Remember I only dared to suggest it.  :-)

>ii) for option b) by combining duplicate entries and matched values 
>we actually have (search filter, duplicate, match filter, return) which 
>is more powerful than using the same filter in both instances. And 
>as Kurt pointed out, we can alternate the ordering of the duplication 
>and match filter (although this probably will not give different results 
>except for the case of when an empty set of attributes is returned. 
>With duplicate followed by match you could get identical entries 
>returned several times, containing an attribute with no values).

This may be the case, it's just wasn't obvious to me (and "probably"
you as well).   I'll have to chew on this to see if both orderings
are useful enough to warrant specification.

I namely brought the ordering of controls issue as it seemed relevant
to the "Extensions Guide" thread.  That is,
  Controls ::= SEQUENCE OF Control
implies that order may matter (and multiple controls of the
same type or even identical controls may be listed multiple times...
which may or may not make sense depending upon the semantics of
the control).

Kurt



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To: mmfunbqqdxbjrpvs@ser.nl
Subject: The Ultimate Internet Marketing Portfolio                                                    wbbfv
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From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 17 08:46:22 2000
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 06:44:12 -0600
From: "Haripriya S" <SHARIPRIYA@novell.com>
To: <Kurt@openldap.org>
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
Subject: Re: New draft - LDAP control for modify and delete on
	multipleentries
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This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to 
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Kurt,

>>> "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org> 08/16/00 11:00PM >>>
[Kurt] Is the (modify/delete) operation still performed as an atomic
operation?

  - The modify/delete operation will be atomic only on a single entry, and =
the operation as a whole will have the same semantics as a search and =
multiple modifies/deletes from the client. Imposing a total atomicity in =
my opinion would be difficult to implement, inefficient, and also =
unnecessary in most cases. Directory transaction is probably a better =
mechanism to address atomicity of multi-entry operations.

[Kurt] I find the use of controls to return continuations awkward at
best.  Such controls which extend operations which the "scope"
of existing operations should use extended partial responses
to return "continuations".  In fact, I don't see why we need
separate controls/responses for each of these operation.  I,
personally, would rather see:

A) extendedPartialResponses generalized such that they may
returned in response to any operation (after appropriate
client solicitation).=20

  - Currently a modify or delete operation doesn't return any partial =
responses, and hence the desicion to let the response for modify/delete =
remain as it is. As the request control is the one that imposes search =
semantics, the control response was designed to carry its specific =
responses, rather than change the base operation's response.=20

[Kurt]
B) scopingControl be defined to allow specification of=20
"scope" information (allowing use of "one" and "subtree"
scopes).  Per entry/continuation responses may be returned.

C) filterControl be defined to allow specification of a
filter which must match before performing operation.
Per entry/continuation responses may be returned.

 - This looks like a good idea to me. But will there be any reallife =
scenario's where we want to do a filtering, without the scope specified?=20=


[Kurt] I would note that such extensions must be very explicit
in regards to "atomic" properties of the "operation".  I
would recommend that only entry level atomic properties be
maintained, not operation level atomic properties.

- I agree. It would be better to limit atomicity requirements to operation =
on a single entry, rather than the whole operation. This is the assumption =
made in the document.

- Thanks and Regards,
- Haripriya

--=_267E8932.791877F8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: =
2px">
<DIV>Kurt,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt; "Kurt D. Zeilenga" &lt;Kurt@OpenLDAP.org&gt; 08/16/00 =
11:00PM=20
&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>[Kurt] Is the (modify/delete) operation still performed as =
an=20
atomic<BR>operation?<BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; - The modify/delete operation will be atomic only on a single =
entry,=20
and the operation as a whole will&nbsp;have the same semantics&nbsp;as a =
search=20
and multiple modifies/deletes from the client. Imposing a total atomicity =
in my=20
opinion would be difficult to implement, inefficient, and also unnecessary =
in=20
most cases. Directory transaction&nbsp;is probably&nbsp;a better&nbsp;mecha=
nism=20
to address atomicity of multi-entry operations.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>[Kurt] I find the use of controls to return continuations =
awkward=20
at<BR>best.&nbsp; Such controls which extend operations which the =
"scope"<BR>of=20
existing operations should use extended partial responses<BR>to return=20
"continuations".&nbsp; In fact, I don't see why we need<BR>separate=20
controls/responses for each of these operation.&nbsp; I,<BR>personally, =
would=20
rather see:</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A) extendedPartialResponses generalized such that they may<BR>returned=
 in=20
response to any operation (after appropriate<BR>client=20
solicitation).&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; - Currently a modify or delete operation doesn't return any =
partial=20
responses, and hence the desicion to let the response for modify/delete =
remain=20
as it is. As the request control is the one that imposes search semantics, =
the=20
control response was designed to carry its specific responses, rather =
than=20
change the base operation's response. </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>[Kurt]<BR>B) scopingControl be defined to allow specification =
of=20
<BR>"scope" information (allowing use of "one" and "subtree"<BR>scopes).&nb=
sp;=20
Per entry/continuation responses may be returned.<BR><BR>C) filterControl =
be=20
defined to allow specification of a<BR>filter which must match before =
performing=20
operation.<BR>Per entry/continuation responses may be returned.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;- This&nbsp;looks like a good idea to me. But will there be =
any=20
reallife scenario's where we want to do a filtering, without the=20
scope&nbsp;specified? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>[Kurt] I would note that such extensions must be very explicit<BR>in=
=20
regards to "atomic" properties of the "operation".&nbsp; I<BR>would =
recommend=20
that only entry level atomic properties be<BR>maintained, not operation =
level=20
atomic properties.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>- I agree. It would be better to limit atomicity requirements to =
operation=20
on a single entry, rather than the whole operation. This is the assumption =
made=20
in the document.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>- Thanks and Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>- Haripriya<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_267E8932.791877F8--



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 17 12:36:49 2000
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To: "Haripriya S" <SHARIPRIYA@novell.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: New draft - LDAP control for modify and delete on
  multipleentries
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
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At 06:44 AM 8/17/00 -0600, Haripriya S wrote:
>  - Currently a modify or delete operation doesn't return any partial responses,

So extend them!

> As the request control is the one that imposes search semantics,

If you don't want to extend modify/delete, extend search to do
modify/delete.  This is no more perverted than extending modify/delete
to do search... and search provides the responses types needed (you
can even be the first to return extended response PDUs in response
a search request... as allowed by 2251).

However, I think both your proposal and the above are suboptimal.
Using (a generalization of) extendedPartialResponse with delete/modify,
IMO, is a much better approach.  I believe such a generalization
is in the works.

>the control response was designed to carry its specific responses, rather than change the base operation's response. 

But the delete/modify operation's semantics was never designed to
support subtrees.  To support subtrees well partial responses are needed.
Without partial responses, you cannot return per entry/continuation
responses as separate PDUs, which will either force providing per
operation atomic properties or require abandon to be disallowed
on these operations.  However, users want entry level atomic
properties on such operations with the ability to abandon
in-progress operations which act on more than one entry.  Because
of this, the single response approach to non-base scoped operations
is, IMO, inadequate. 

> - This (scope & filter conrols) looks like a good idea to me. But will there be any reallife scenario's where we want to do a filtering, without the scope specified? 

Yes. And scoping without filtering.  Scope and filter are orthogonal
to each other... so specifying them separately seems natural to me.
Combining them into one control may be natural for others.  But
two v. one control is really just syntax, it shouldn't change the
semantics as long as both are OPTIONAL.

Kurt



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Updated Internet draft on simple subtree operations.  See attached...  Note 
to readers that it now includes a "requirements section"...

Bruce
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Application Working Group                               Bruce Greenblatt
Internet Draft
<draft-greenblatt-ldapext-sos-01>
Expires in six months


                Simple Operations on Subtrees (for LDAP)


Status of this Memo


     This document is an Internet-Draft and is in full conformance with
all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026.

     This document is an Internet-Draft. Internet-Drafts are working
documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas,
andits working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute work-
ing documents as Internet-Drafts.

     Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six
months.  Internet-Drafts may be updated, replaced, or made obsolete by
other documents at any time. It is not appropriate to use Internet-
Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as a "working
draft" or "work in progress".

     To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the
1id-abstracts.txt listing contained in the Internet-Drafts Shadow Direc-
tories on ds.internic.net (US East Coast), nic.nordu.net (Europe),
ftp.isi.edu (US West Coast), or munnari.oz.au (Pacific Rim).

     Distribution of this document is unlimited.

     Abstract

     This draft defines several new LDAP extensions.  These extensions
are operations that can manipulate an entire portion of Directory Infor-
mation Tree at once (DIT).  This draft does not presume any specific DIT
structure or schema modifications.

1.  Requirements

     Here are some requirements that for building real world LDAP appli-
cations that try to operate on an entire subtree.

-    Provide user feedback as to the progress of the long lived opera-
     tion.  In many scenarios, a subtree operation (e.g. subtree copy)
     may take a long period of time (many hours for large subtrees).  It



Greenblatt                                                      [Page 1]





Internet Draft                                                 July 2000


     is essential to have a progress bar move across the screen as the
     entries are deleted.

-    As the delete subtree crosses containers into other LDAP servers,
     additional authentication credentials may be required to be
     retrieved from the LDAP client, in order to allow the operation to
     proceed.

-    If the authenticated user has access to only a portion of the sub-
     tree to be deleted, it should be possible for the part of the sub-
     tree that is possible to delete, to in fact be deleted.  It should
     also be possible to submit the operation in such a way that no
     entries from the subtree are deleted unless it is possible to
     delete all entries from the subtree.

-    The list of entries that has been deleted by the operation should
     be returned to the client.  An incremental list of deleted entries
     could be returned with the progress indication above.

-    It should be possible to "cancel" the delete subtree operation,
     just as the long lived Search operation can be "abandoned".

-    It should be possible to delete only certain types of entries from
     the subtree.  For example, delete all printer objects from the sub-
     tree.

     Note that this current draft does not necessarily address all of
the requirements above.

2.  Mechanism

     Operations that make changes to the Directory Information Tree
(DIT) via that are part of the standard set of protocol operations oper-
ate on a single object.  This document defines three new LDAP operations
that manipulate an entire DIT subtree.  These three operations are:

-    Copy Subtree

-    Delete Subtree

-    Update Subtree

     The syntax that is used in any LDAP extended request is:

     ExtendedRequest ::= [APPLICATION 23] SEQUENCE {
                requestName      [0] LDAPOID,
                requestValue     [1] OCTET STRING OPTIONAL }




Greenblatt                                                      [Page 2]





Internet Draft                                                 July 2000


     The corresponding response syntax is:

     ExtendedResponse ::= [APPLICATION 24] SEQUENCE {
                COMPONENTS OF LDAPResult,
                responseName     [10] LDAPOID OPTIONAL,
                response         [11] OCTET STRING OPTIONAL }

     The extensions defined in this draft obey this syntax.  All OIDs
defined in this draft are rooted from:

1.3.6.1.4.1.5515

1.3.6.1.4.1 has been assigned as IANA-registered Private Enterprises,
and IANA has assigned 5515 to Directory Tools and Application Services,
Inc. (DTASI).  1.3.6.1.4.1.5515.3 is the root OID for LDAP extended
operations, and 1.3.6.1.4.1.5515.4 is the root OID for LDAP control
extensions (none of which are currently defined in this draft).  Thus,
the OIDs for these extended operations are:

-    1.3.6.1.4.1.5515.3.1 - Copy Subtree Request

-    1.3.6.1.4.1.5515.3.2 - Copy Subtree Response

-    1.3.6.1.4.1.5515.3.3 - Delete Subtree Request

-    1.3.6.1.4.1.5515.3.4 - Delete Subtree Response

-    1.3.6.1.4.1.5515.3.5 - Update Subtree Request

-    1.3.6.1.4.1.5515.3.6 - Update Subtree Response


2.1.  Copy Subtree

     The Copy Subtree operation makes a replica of all objects from one
subtree (the source) in the DIT in another part (the target) in the DIT.
Note that if the LDAP client submitting the operation does not have
access to some objects in the source subtree, then objects corresponding
to them will not be created in the target subtree.  Similarly, if the
LDAP client submitting the operation does not have access to some object
attributes in the source subtree, then the corresponding object in the
target subtree will be missing those attributes.  The Copy Subtree
Request names the source and target of the operation:
CopySubtreeRequest ::= SEQUENCE {
    source           LDAPDN,
    target           LDAPDN,
    filter           Filter OPTIONAL}




Greenblatt                                                      [Page 3]





Internet Draft                                                 July 2000


     If the filter is present in the request, only those objects in the
source subtree that match the filter are copied to the target subtree.


2.2.  Delete Subtree

     The Delete Subtree operation removes all objects from a specified
part (the target) in the DIT.  Note that if the LDAP client submitting
the operation does not have access to some objects in the target sub-
tree, then those objects will not be deleted, and neither will any
objects betwween the target and the inaccessible object.    The Delete
Subtree Request names the target:
DeleteSubtreeRequest ::= SEQUENCE {
    source          LDAPDN,
    filter          Filter OPTIONAL}

     If the filter is present in the request, only those objects in the
source subtree that match the filter are deleted.


2.3.  Update Subtree

     The Update Subtree operation makes the same change to all objects
in a subtree (the target) in the DIT.  Note that if the LDAP client sub-
mitting the operation does not have access to some objects in the source
subtree, then objects corresponding to them will not be modified.  Simi-
larly, if the LDAP client submitting the operation does not have access
to some object attributes in the target subtree that are to be modified,
then the update operation fails on those objects.  The format of the
Update Subtree request is identical to the Modify Operation:
UpdateSubtreeRequest ::= SEQUENCE {
    object          LDAPDN,
    modification    SEQUENCE OF SEQUENCE {
    operation       ENUMERATED {
    add     (0),
    delete  (1),
    replace (2) },
    modification    AttributeTypeAndValues }
    filter          Filter OPTIONAL}

     If the filter is present in the request, only those objects in the
source subtree that match the filter are updated.


3.  References

[1]  M. Wahl, et. al., "Lightweight Directory Access Protocol (v3)," RFC
     2251, July 1997.



Greenblatt                                                      [Page 4]





Internet Draft                                                 July 2000


4.  Author's Address

     Bruce Greenblatt
     DTASI
     6841 Heaton Moor Drive
     San Jose, CA 95119
     USA
     Phone: +1-408-390-4776
     Email: bgreenblatt@dtasi.com










































Greenblatt                                                      [Page 5]



--=====================_4207239==_
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==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html
--=====================_4207239==_--



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 17 12:47:49 2000
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To: "Haripriya S" <SHARIPRIYA@novell.com>, <Kurt@openldap.org>
From: Bruce Greenblatt <bgreenblatt@directory-applications.com>
Subject: Re: New draft - LDAP control for modify and delete on
  multipleentries
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>
>   - Currently a modify or delete operation doesn't return any partial 
> responses, and hence the desicion to let the response for modify/delete 
> remain as it is. As the request control is the one that imposes search 
> semantics, the control response was designed to carry its specific 
> responses, rather than change the base operation's response.


This is one of the reasons that I chose to use extended operations for 
subtree copy, delete and modify.  I submitted an update during the blackout 
period, and I will use this opportunity to resubmit it.  Note also,Michael 
Armijo (who I haven't heard from in a while) wrote a draft sometime back 
for a subtree delete control, which was atomic, and didn't require partial 
updates.  Have you looked at his draft?

==============================================
Bruce Greenblatt, Ph. D.
Directory Tools and Application Services, Inc.
http://www.directory-applications.com
See my new Book on Internet Directories: 
http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0139744525.html



From list@netscape.com  Fri Aug 18 10:08:05 2000
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From: "Haripriya S" <SHARIPRIYA@novell.com>
To: <Kurt@openldap.org>
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
Subject: Re: New draft - LDAP control for modify and delete
	onmultipleentries
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This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to 
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to 
properly handle MIME multipart messages.

--=_5901F0D7.E889E083
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

> Using (a generalization of) extendedPartialResponse with delete/modify,
IMO, is a much better approach.  I believe such a generalization
is in the works.

Is somebody working on it?

> To support subtrees well partial responses are needed.
Without partial responses, you cannot return per entry/continuation
responses as separate PDUs, which will either force providing per
operation atomic properties or require abandon to be disallowed
on these operations.  However, users want entry level atomic
properties on such operations with the ability to abandon
in-progress operations which act on more than one entry.  Because
of this, the single response approach to non-base scoped operations
is, IMO, inadequate.=20

Yes, I see your point now. Thanks for the input. As per your suggestion, I =
can modify the proposal as follows:

1. Retain the EntrySelection control which consists of 4 parts,
  a scope, an referencealiases field, a filter, and a set of fields for =
setting limits on the operation ( time, error, etc. ). This is approximatel=
y equivalent to a search operation syntax itself. Make all fields except =
limits fields  optional(?). Also introduce a field from the client ( =
optional ) specifying whether it can and wants to receive partial =
responses.

2. Define a general partial extended response. This can be returned by any =
LDAP operation. (This would have to go into LDAP rfc). The "response" =
portion of the extendedresponse will again be a sequence of an LDAP OID =
for the specific response, and the specific response itself. These can be =
defined specific to various extendedoperations and controls. Define a =
specific partialextendedresponse for continuation responses and use it for =
continuations needed for this operation.

3. The modifyResponse or delResponse will return the final response. Error =
codes specific to the request control, and the failedDNs will be returned =
by the EntrySelectionResponse control. The referrals field will be removed =
from the response control, and referrals will be returned through =
modifyResponse or delResponse themselves.
Another approach is to allow failedDNs also to be returned partially as =
and when they fail, and hence define another specific partialextendedrespon=
se to return failedDNs too.

Hope this addresses what you are saying. Does this sound ok to everybody? =
I can start on this if it does.

> Yes. And scoping without filtering.  Scope and filter are orthogonal
to each other... so specifying them separately seems natural to me.
Combining them into one control may be natural for others.  But
two v. one control is really just syntax, it shouldn't change the
semantics as long as both are OPTIONAL.

I can let both the fields be optional if there is no issue.

Thanks and Regards,
Haripriya

--=_5901F0D7.E889E083
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: =
2px">
<DIV>Hi,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>&gt; Using (a generalization of) extendedPartialResponse with=20
delete/modify,<BR>IMO, is a much better approach.&nbsp; I believe such =
a=20
generalization<BR>is in the works.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Is somebody working on it?</DIV>
<DIV><BR>&gt; To support subtrees well partial responses are needed.<BR>Wit=
hout=20
partial responses, you cannot return per entry/continuation<BR>responses =
as=20
separate PDUs, which will either force providing per<BR>operation =
atomic=20
properties or require abandon to be disallowed<BR>on these operations.&nbsp=
;=20
However, users want entry level atomic<BR>properties on such operations =
with the=20
ability to abandon<BR>in-progress operations which act on more than one=20
entry.&nbsp; Because<BR>of this, the single response approach to non-base =
scoped=20
operations<BR>is, IMO, inadequate. <BR></DIV>
<DIV>Yes, I see your point now.&nbsp;Thanks for the input. As per=20
your&nbsp;suggestion,&nbsp;I can modify the proposal as follows:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1. Retain the EntrySelection control which consists of 4 parts,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; a&nbsp;scope, an referencealiases field, a filter, and a set =
of=20
fields for setting limits on the operation ( time, error, etc. ). This =
is=20
approximately equivalent to a search operation syntax itself. Make all =
fields=20
except&nbsp;limits fields  optional(?). Also introduce a field from the =
client (=20
optional ) specifying whether it can and wants to receive partial=20
responses.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>2. Define a general partial extended response. This can be returned =
by any=20
LDAP operation. (This would have to go into LDAP rfc). The "response" =
portion of=20
the extendedresponse will again be a sequence of an LDAP OID for the =
specific=20
response, and the specific response itself. These can be defined specific =
to=20
various extendedoperations and controls. Define a specific=20
partialextendedresponse for continuation responses and use it for =
continuations=20
needed for this operation.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>3. The modifyResponse or delResponse will return the final response. =
Error=20
codes specific to the request control, and the failedDNs will be returned =
by the=20
EntrySelectionResponse control. The referrals field will be removed from =
the=20
response control, and referrals will be returned through modifyResponse =
or=20
delResponse themselves.</DIV>
<DIV>Another approach is to allow failedDNs also to be returned partially =
as and=20
when they fail, and hence define another specific partialextendedresponse =
to=20
return failedDNs too.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Hope this addresses what you are saying.&nbsp;Does this sound ok =
to=20
everybody?&nbsp;I can start on this if it does.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; Yes. And scoping without filtering.&nbsp; Scope and filter =
are=20
orthogonal<BR>to each other... so specifying them separately seems natural =
to=20
me.<BR>Combining them into one control may be natural for others.&nbsp;=20
But<BR>two v. one control is really just syntax, it shouldn't change=20
the<BR>semantics as long as both are OPTIONAL.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>I&nbsp;can let both the fields be optional if there is no issue.</DIV>=

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks and Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>Haripriya</DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_5901F0D7.E889E083--



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To: "Haripriya S" <SHARIPRIYA@novell.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: extendedPartialResponse I-D
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[I changed subject of this response, I'll post modify/delete
comments separately]
At 08:05 AM 8/18/00 -0600, Haripriya S wrote:
>> Using (a generalization of) extendedPartialResponse with delete/modify,
>IMO, is a much better approach.  I believe such a generalization
>is in the works.
> 
>Is somebody working on it?

Yes, if IIRC from IETF#48 (hallway?) discussions, the authors of the
existing extendedPartialResponse I-D were working on a generalization
to allow it to be returned in response as defined in an extension
(whether defined using an "extended" operation or control mechanism).

I hope a Standard Track RFC updating 2251 is published on this subject
soon so that the update can be considered for incorporation into the
future LDAPv3 Draft Standard.

Kurt



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Subject: Re: LDAP Extension Style Guide, re interaction between controls
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>   "Controls SHOULD NOT be combined unless the semantics of the
>   combination has been defined.  A server MAY ignore non-critical
>   controls (even those it recognizes) to establish semantics of the
>   operation 

Note that the Internet2 guys, IETF PKIX group and Middleware 
people have been discussing this issue, as X.500 is ambiguous in 
this case. A defect report has now been issued on X.500, and the 
proposed solution is contrary to the above, i.e. it states that a 
server that understands an extension (control in the case of LDAP) 
MUST obey it even if it is marked non critical. I would like LDAP to 
either take the same stance for compatibility purposes, or to 
persuade the X.500 , PKIX and other groups that the proposed 
solution is wrong and that the server should be free to choose what 
to do. Either way, I think that compatibility should be the target.

David

***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************



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--NextPart


A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.


        RFC 2891

        Title:	    LDAP Control Extension for Server Side Sorting of
                    Search Results
        Author(s):  T. Howes, M. Wahl, A. Anantha
        Status:     Standards Track
	Date:       August 2000
        Mailbox:    anoopa@microsoft.com, howes@loudcloud.com,
                    Mark.Wahl@sun.com 
        Pages:      8
        Characters: 15833
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:  None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-ldapext-sorting-03.txt

        URL:        ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2891.txt


This document describes two LDAPv3 control extensions for server side
sorting of search results. These controls allows a client to specify
the attribute types and matching rules a server should use when
returning the results to an LDAP search request. The controls may be
useful when the LDAP client has limited functionality or for some
other reason cannot sort the results but still needs them
sorted. Other permissible controls on search operations are not
defined in this extension. 
 
The sort controls allow a server to return a result code for the
sorting of the results that is independent of the result code returned
for the search operation. 

This document is a product of the LDAP Extension Working Group of the
IETF.  

This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol.

This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for
the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the
"Internet Official Protocol Standards" (STD 1) for the
standardization state and status of this protocol.  Distribution
of this memo is unlimited.

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Authors, for further information.


Joyce K. Reynolds and Sandy Ginoza
USC/Information Sciences Institute

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At 05:36 PM 8/18/00 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:

>>   "Controls SHOULD NOT be combined unless the semantics of the
>>   combination has been defined.  A server MAY ignore non-critical
>>   controls (even those it recognizes) to establish semantics of the
>>   operation 
>
>Note that the Internet2 guys, IETF PKIX group and Middleware 
>people have been discussing this issue, as X.500 is ambiguous in 
>this case. A defect report has now been issued on X.500, and the 
>proposed solution is contrary to the above, i.e. it states that a 
>server that understands an extension (control in the case of LDAP) 
>MUST obey it even if it is marked non critical.

The issue is that the extension, as defined by two recognized
controls, is NOT understood because the semantics of the
combination is not defined.

LDAP allows for a non-critical control to be ignored.  This
implies that if a request contains two controls, one critical
and one not, is submitted to a server which recognizes BOTH
controls but does not understand the semantics of the
combination, the server must either:
  a) return unavailableCriticalExtension
  b) perform the operation as if the non-critical extension
  was not specified.

I prefer option a) as it follows from the similar case:
a request contains two controls, a recognized critical
control and a unrecognized non-critical control.

However, I can see the value offered in option b.

>I would like LDAP to 
>either take the same stance for compatibility purposes, or to 
>persuade the X.500 , PKIX and other groups that the proposed 
>solution is wrong and that the server should be free to choose what 
>to do. Either way, I think that compatibility should be the target.

I concur!



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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:27:10 -0600
From: "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
To: <DJW@datcon.co.uk>
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ldapext-ldapv3-dupent-03.txt
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This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to 
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to 
properly handle MIME multipart messages.

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

David,=20

You're right. Unless there is opposition, I'll plan on removing the text =
that prohibits subtypes and make another change that make the inclusion of =
subtypes obvious.

Jim

>>> Dave Watts <DJW@datcon.co.uk> 7/12/00 5:08:26 AM >>>
Jim,

Sorry to come in on this discussion late.

There was one thing I noticed in your draft RFC - I think that you
**should** consider subtypes for duplicate entries. This is more consistent=

with the general LDAP/X.500 rule:
- subtypes count for interrogation operations
- subtypes are ignored for modification operations.

Regards,

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Sermersheim [mailto:JIMSE@novell.com]
Sent: 15 June 2000 00:43
To: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com; Kurt@OpenLDAP.org
Subject: Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ldapext-ldapv3-dupent-03.txt


>>> "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org> 6/14/00 12:14:53 PM >>>

>How does this control behave in the face of subtypes of the
>provided AttributeDescriptions?

If an attribute is specified, only that attribute is considered for
returning duplicate entries, subtypes of that attribute are not considered.=

I'll add text to make this clear.

--=_471FEE05.D4B5DCF7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>David, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>You're right. Unless there is opposition, I'll plan =
on=20
removing the text that prohibits subtypes and make another change that =
make the=20
inclusion of subtypes obvious.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jim</DIV>
<DIV><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Dave Watts &lt;DJW@datcon.co.uk&gt; 7/12/00 5:08:26 =
AM=20
&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>Jim,<BR><BR>Sorry to come in on this discussion=20
late.<BR><BR>There was one thing I noticed in your draft RFC - I think =
that=20
you<BR>**should** consider subtypes for duplicate entries. This is more=20
consistent<BR>with the general LDAP/X.500 rule:<BR>- subtypes count for=20
interrogation operations<BR>- subtypes are ignored for modification=20
operations.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>-----Original=20
Message-----<BR>From: Jim Sermersheim [<A=20
href=3D"mailto:JIMSE@novell.com]">mailto:JIMSE@novell.com]</A><BR>Sent: 15 =
June=20
2000 00:43<BR>To: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com; Kurt@OpenLDAP.org<BR>Subject: =
Re:=20
WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ldapext-ldapv3-dupent-03.txt<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&g=
t;=20
"Kurt D. Zeilenga" &lt;Kurt@OpenLDAP.org&gt; 6/14/00 12:14:53 PM=20
&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;How does this control behave in the face of =
subtypes of=20
the<BR>&gt;provided AttributeDescriptions?<BR><BR>If an attribute is =
specified,=20
only that attribute is considered for<BR>returning duplicate entries, =
subtypes=20
of that attribute are not considered.<BR>I'll add text to make this=20
clear.<BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_471FEE05.D4B5DCF7--



From list@netscape.com  Fri Aug 18 19:23:27 2000
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:18:26 -0700
To: "Haripriya S" <SHARIPRIYA@novell.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: New draft - LDAP control for modify and delete
  onmultipleentries
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At 08:05 AM 8/18/00 -0600, Haripriya S wrote:
>I can modify the proposal as follows:
> 
>1. Retain the EntrySelection control which consists of 4 parts,
>  a scope, an referencealiases field, a filter, and a set of fields for setting limits on the operation ( time, error, etc. ). This is approximately equivalent to a search operation syntax itself. Make all fields except limits fields optional(?).

I recommend making limits OPTIONAL with DEFAULTs of no limit.

>Also introduce a field from the client ( optional ) specifying whether it can and wants to receive partial responses.

Please, no.  This only reintroduces all the issues which use
partial responses was meant to avoid...  with the addition headache
of having to support two sets of semantics.  Combining a "paritial
response" approach and "all-or-nothing" approach is not wise.  It
would be difficult to specify in a clear and concise manner and
likely hard to implement.

>2. Define a general partial extended response.
>This can be returned by any LDAP operation.

I suggest, for now, you just hijack extendedPartialResponse and make
a note in your I-D that your use of extendedPartialResponse I-D
assumes a generalization of the extendedPartialResponse I-D
will be made.  The generalization work will like progress quickly
as it's mostly "syntactical sugar".

>Define a specific partialextendedresponse for continuation responses and use it for continuations needed for this operation.

Yes.

> 
>3. The modifyResponse or delResponse will return the final response. Error codes specific to the request control, and the failedDNs will be returned by the EntrySelectionResponse control.

No.  Return them in another partial extended response.  If you don't
separate per entry/continuation responses then the operation should
be treated as one atomic action (or you should disallow abandon).

>Another approach is to allow failedDNs also to be returned partially as and when they fail, and hence define another specific partialextendedresponse to return failedDNs too.

Yes!

Return a partial extended response for each entry the operation acts
upon.  The response should contain the DN and the results specific
to that entry.

Use the final result response only to indicate the completion (success
or failure) of the operation.



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From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 21 11:25:09 2000
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From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 22 08:32:50 2000
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From: Ludovic Poitou <ludovic.poitou@france.Sun.COM>
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hahnt@us.ibm.com wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I have a few comments on the I-D:
>
> Section 2.1, second paragraph: "password for a directory administrator
> never expires, the account is never locked, etc."
> I think that if a particular implementation wants to allow this, then it
> can choose to do so.  I do not think it should be singled out as part of
> the specification.  In a secure environment, the directory administrator(s)
> should be held to strict requirements like everyone else.  All efforts
> should be made to disallow a "single, allow-allowing identity" from
> existing.

I agree and will change the wording.
But I think that at least the Directory Manager (or root if you prefer) should
not have a password policy that could lock him outside the directory.


>
> Section 4.2.5, first paragraph: "otherwise the server must returned an
> error" - returned should be return.

>
> Also, case "1" and case "2" look to me to be identical.

They're not, when the new password is hashed. Case "1" will succeed (trust the
client for having checked the syntax before submitting a new hashed password),
case "2" will fail (refuse a hashed password since syntax cannot be checked).

>
> Also, it would be nice if the "pwCheckSyntax" identified the password
> attriubutes that it applied to by name.

I don't understand this remark. The whole policy definition apply to the same
password attribute.

>
>
> Section 4.2.13, second paragraph: "If this attribute is not preset, ... the
> failure counter will never be purged."
> I expected that the failure counter would always be purged after a
> successful authentication?

I agree this is not clear. What about :
"This attribute holds the number of seconds after which the password failures
are purged from the failure counter even though no successful authentication
occured.
If this attribute is not present,... the failure counter is only reset by a
succesfull authentication."

> How does one indicate that password failures
> should not be counted?

The pwdMaxFailure is used to indicate that password failures should not be
counted (not present or value set to 0).

>
>
> Section 4.3:
> Is there any alternative to this use of attribute descriptions/options?
> Many implementations don't have full support for attribute
> descriptions/options yet.

The alternative would be to specify the password attribute name in each value.
Something like "pwdChangedTime: {userPassword}20000103121520Z"
I don't really like this because it cost more to search for the correct value.
Especially for the attributes that can hold several timestamps.


>
>
> Section 4.3.3, first paragraph: "The password must expire in the ...",
> should "must" be "will"?

Yes, corrected.

>
>
> Section 4.3.4, first paragraph: "time stamps" should be "timestamps"
>

Thanks.

>
> Section 6.4, step 2, part B "checks for password expiration".
> Will compareTrue still be returned after expiration?  This was not clear.

I don't think so.
If compare is used for authentication purpose, the result should only be
compareTrue or compareFalse, and the appropriate control set.
I need to discuss this with the other authors of this document.


>

>
> Also, "bindResponse" should be changed to "compareResponse" throughout this
> section of the text (all the way to the start of Section 7).
>

Done.

>
> Section 7.1, first paragraph:
> "For every bind response received" should be "for every bind response or
> compare response received", and likewise throughout the rest of the
> section, compare response should be factored in.

I'd rather add a compare section since compare should return compareTrue or
compareFalse, or an error.

>
>
> Section 8:
> As an alternative, why not apply the auxiliary class to an entry in the
> tree and define its "scope" to be the subtree below that entry (until
> another policy is encountered, or the subtree leaves the server instance).

That's a possibility.
I think that because the password policy definition is more of an
administrative entry than a "user" entry, it should not be returned during
regular searches. Subentry allows that without having to set specific ACIs.

>
> Also, "When the server need to find the" , "need" should be "needs"
>

Corrected.

>
> Section 9, last paragraph:
> I interpreted this paragraph to mean that the operational attributes should
> be modified/tracked by each replica itself, not replicated/kept in sync
> across the replicas.  If that is so, I'm not sure that this should be
> specified here - some implementations might find a way to keep them in sync
> to cut down on the total number of possible attempts (counting all replicas
> of the information).

I think the "should" express a recommandation not an obligation. But I agree
some implementation (or some deployement) might find usefull to keep all
attributes in sync.


>
>
> Section 10, last paragraph:
> It would be nice to see an expanded discussion of auditing.  Might this be
> the topic of a new I-D?
>

Good point, need to think about this...

Thanks for reviewing the draft.

Ludovic.

>
> Regards,
> Tim Hahn
>
> Internet: hahnt@us.ibm.com
> Internal: Timothy Hahn/Endicott/IBM@IBMUS or IBMUSM00(HAHNT)
> phone: 607.752.6388     tie-line: 8/852.6388
> fax: 607.752.3681

--
Ludovic Poitou
Sun Microsystems Inc.
iPlanet E-Commerce Solutions - Directory Group - Grenoble - France





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Dear Friend, thank you for your time and interest.

This email contains the entire plan of how you can make $50,000 or more in the next 90 days 
simply sending email! Seem impossible? Just read on and see how easy this is...

Due to the popularity of this letter on the Internet, a major nightly news program recently 
devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below to see if it really can 
make people money.

The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved that 
there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to 
show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home.

The results have been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are 
doing much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its 
been very exciting. You will understand once you try it yourself!

********** THE ENTIRE PLAN IS HERE BELOW **********

If you would like to make at least $50,000 in less than 90 days! Please read this program, then 
read it again!

This is a legitimate, legal, money making opportunity.  It does not require you to come into 
contact with people or make or take any telephone calls. Just follow the instructions, and you 
will make money.  This simplified email marketing program works perfectly 100% every time.

Email is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this virtually free method of advertising 
now. The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using email. Get your piece of 
this action.  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello - My name is Johnathon Rourke and I'm from Rhode Island.  The enclosed information is 
something I almost let slip through my fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything 
and gave some thought and study to it. Two years ago, the corporation I worked for the past 
twelve years downsized and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I 
decided to open my own business. Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial 
problems. I owed my family, friends and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll on 
my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow against 
my home to support my family and struggling business.

At that moment something significant happened in my life. I am writing to share the experience in 
hopes
that this could change your life forever financially.

In mid December, I received this problem in my email.  Six months prior to receiving this program 
I had been
sending away for information on various business opportunities. None of the programs I 
received, in my opinion, were cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to comprehend 
or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they would work.

But, as I was saying, in December of 1997, I received this program. I didn't send for it or ask for it.  
Someone just got my name off a mailing list and thank goodness for that. I read it several times 
after that first time to be sure I was understanding it correctly.  I couldn't believe my eyes! Here 
was a money making machine I could start immediately without any debt.

Like most of you I was still a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So 
I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (800-725-2161, 24 hours a day) and they confirmed that 
it is indeed legal. After determining the program was legal, I decided, "why not?"

Initially I sent out 10,000 emails. It cost me about $15 for my time on-line. The great thing about 
email is that I don't need any money for printing to send out the program, and because I also 
send the product (reports) by email, my only expense is my time.

In less than one week, I was starting to receive orders for Report #1. By January 13, I had 
received 26 orders for Report #1. Your goal should be to receive at least 20 orders for Report #1 
within 2 weeks. If you don't, send out more programs until you do.

My first step in making $50,000 in 90 days was done.  By January 30, I had received 196 orders 
for Report #2. Your goal is to receive at least 100+ orders for Report #2 within 2 weeks. If not, 
send out more programs until you do. Once you have 100 orders, the rest is easy, relax, you will 
make your $50,000.

Well, I had 196 orders for Report #2, 96 more than I needed. So I sat back and relaxed. By March 
1, of the first 10,000 emails I sent out, I received $58,000 with more coming in every day. I paid off 
all my debts and bought a much needed new car.

Please take your time to read this plan, it will change your life forever. Remember, it won't work if 
you don't try it.

This program does work, but you must follow it exactly. Especially the rules of not trying to 
place your name in a different place. It won't work and you'll lose out on a lot of money. In order 
for this plan to work, you must meet your goal of 20+ orders for Report #1, and 100+ orders for 
Report #2 in order to make $50,000 or more in 90 days.

I am living proof that it works. If you choose not to participate in this program, I am sorry. It 
really is a great opportunity with little cost or risk to you.  If you choose to participate, follow the 
program and you will be on your way to financial security. If you are a fellow business owner 
and are in financial trouble like I was, or you want to start your own business, consider this a 
sign. I did!

Sincerely,

Johnathon Rourke

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM.

By the time you have read enclosed program and reports, you should have concluded that such 
a program (and one that is legal) could not have been created by an amateur. Let me tell you a 
little about myself. I had a profitable business for 10 years. Then in 1979 my business began 
falling off. I was doing the same things that were previously successful for me, but it wasn't 
working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy. Inflation and recession had 
replaced the stable economy that had been with us since 1945.

I don't have to tell you what happened to the unemployment rate, because many of you know 
from first hand experience. There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before. The 
middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved 
up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving 
down into the ranks of the poor.  As the saying goes, "the rich get richer, and the poor get 
poorer". The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get 
rich".
Inflation will see to that! You have just received information that can give you financial freedom 
for the rest of your life, with no risk and just a little bit of effort. You can make more money in the 
next few months than you have ever imagined. I should also point out that I will not receive a 
penny of your money, nor anyone else who has provided a testimonial for this program.

I have retired from this program after sending out thousands and thousands of programs. Follow 
the program EXACTLY as instructed. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as 
it is now. As the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."  Remember to email a copy of this 
exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 
50,000 and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out, 
the more potential customers you will reach.  So, my friend, I have given you the ideas, the 
materials, the information and the opportunity to become financially independent. It's up to you 
now. DO IT!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Before you delete this program from your in-box (as I almost did), take a little time to read it and 
really think about it. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when you participate. Figure 
out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of 
money. You will definitely get back what you invested and more. Any doubts you have will 
vanish when your first orders come in.

Jody Jacobs
Richmond, VA

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This method of raising capital really works 100% every time. I am sure that you could use up to 
$50,000 or more in the next 90 days. Before you say "Bull ____", please read this program very 
carefully. This is not a chain letter but a perfectly legal money making business.

As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling 
our products (reports). Every state in the USA allows you to recruit new multi-level business 
partners and to deliver a product for every dollar received. That's what this program does. We 
sell reports and that's perfectly legitimate! Your orders will come to you by mail and will be filled 
by email, so you are not involved in personal selling. You will do it in the privacy of your home, 
shop or office. This is the easiest marketing plan anywhere. It is simply filling orders by email.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The reports we sell are informational and instructional material, keys to the secrets for everyone 
to open the doors to the magic world of E-Commerce, the information highway, the wave of the 
future.

Here's the plan:

1)You order the four reports listed below for $5 each. They will be sent to you by email.
2)Save a copy of this entire letter and put your name after Report #1 and move the other names 
down. Drop off the name presently shown at Report #4.
3)Use any of the hundreds of bulk email services listed (use "Search" for Bulk Email) and have 
them send you 25,000 to 50,000 email addresses for about $49.
4)Orders will come to you by U. S. Mail. Upon receipt receipt of the orders (and $5 for each 
order), simply email them the requested report.

Now I ask you. Could anything be easier?

By the way, there are over 50 million email addresses with millions more joining the Internet each 
year, so don't worry about "running out" or "saturation". You won't run out of people.

You can start today. Just remember these easy steps.

1) ORDER THE FOUR REPORTS
Order the four reports from the names below. (You can't sell them if you don't have them.) Send 
$5 cash, the name and number of the report you are ordering, your email address, and your name 
& return address (in case of a problem)to the person whose name appears on the list next to the 
Report. Make sure your return address is
on your envelope in case of any U. S. Mail problems. Within a few days you will receive by email 
all four of the reports. Save them in your computer so you can send them to the thousands of 
people who will order them from you.

2) ADD YOUR MAILING ADDRESS TO THIS LETTER
a.) Look below for the list of reports and names.
b.) After you've ordered the four reports,delete the name and address under Report #4.  This 
person has made it all the way through the entire cycle.
c.) Move the name and address under Report #3 down to Report #4.
d.) Move the name and address under Report #2 down to Report #3.
e.) Move the name and address under Report #1 down to Report #2.
f.) Insert your name and address in the Report #1 position.

PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU COPY ALL INFORMATION, EVERY NAME
AND EVERY ADDRESS ACCURATELY.

3) Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names and save it to your computer. Make 
no changes to these instructions. Now you are ready to use this entire email to send to your 
email prospects.

Report #1 will tell you how to download bulk email software and email addresses so you can 
send this program out to thousands of people while you sleep.  Remember that 50,000+ new 
people are joining the Internet every month.

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can affort $20 and the initial 
bulk emailing cost). You obviously have a computer and an Internet connection and email is free.

There are two primary methods of building your downline:

METHOD #1: SENDING BULK EMAIL. Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it 
goes and we'll assume you and all those involved only email out 2,000 programs apiece. Let's 
also assume that the mailing receives a 0.5% response. The response could be much better. 
Also, many people will email out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000 (why stop 
at 2,000?) But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.5% 
response, that's only 10 orders you'll get for Report #1. Those ten people respond by sending 
out 2,000 each for a total of 20,000. Out of those 0.5%, 100 people respond and order Report #2. 
Those 100 people mail out 2,000 programs for a total of 200,000. The 0.5% to that is 1,000 orders 
for Report #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for a total of
2,000,000. The 0.5% response to that is 10,000 orders for Report #4. That's 10,000 $5 bills for you. 
CASH!  Your total income in this example is $50+$500+$5,000+$50,000 for a total of $55,550!

And that's just if only 10 people out of the original 2,000 people to whom you sent programs 
respond and the
rest of the folks trash their invitations.

Dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone (or even only half of everyone) sent 
out 100,000 programs instead of just 2,000. Believe me, many people will send out more than just 
the 2,000 shown in this example.

METHOD #2: PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET.
Advertising on the internet is very, very inexpensive, and there are hundreds of free places to 
advertise.  Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is 
to get only 10 people to participate on your first level. Placing a lot of free ads on the Internet will 
easily get a larger response. Also assume that everyone else in your organization gets only 10 
downline member. Look how this small number accumulates to achieve the
staggering results below:

1st level - your first 10 send you
$5...............$50
2nd level - 10 members from those 10
($5x10).......$500
3rd level - 10 members from those 100
($5x100)...$5,000 4th level - 10 members from those
1000 ($5x1000)$50,000
Total sent to you, $55,500

Amazing, isn't it? Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 
people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate. Most 
people get 100's of participants and many will continue to work this program, sending out 
programs with your name on them for years. Think about it!

People are going to get emails about this plan from you or somebody else and many will work 
this plan. The question is, don't you want your name to be on the emails they will send out?

Follow these instructions:
1) Always provide same day service on all orders.
2) Always send $5 cash (U.S.Currency) for each report.  Checks are not acceptable. Wrap the 
cash in two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets, write the name and number of the report 
you are ordering, your email address and your name and postal address.

REPORT # 1
"The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the
Internet"
Order this report from:
LUIS PINEDA
13747 WATERHOUSE WAY
ORLANDO, FL 32828 

REPORT # 2
"The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk Email on the
Internet"
Order this report from:
CUTRIS MCREE
13865A BAUGHMAN ROAD
SILVERHILL, AL 36576

REPORT # 3
"The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet"
Order this report from:
ERSKINE ROBBINS
4730 PARK ROAD - SUITE C
CHARLOTTE, NC 28209

REPORT # 4
"How to Become a Millionaire Utilizing the Power of
Multilevel Marketing and the Internet"
Order this report from:
NDRA AUDERSAO
2801 OCEAN PARK BLVD., # 170
SANTA MONICA, CA 90406
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TIPS FOR SUCCESS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Treat this as your business. Be prompt, professional and follow the directions accurately. Send 
for the four reports immediately so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: 
When you receive a $5 order, you must send out the required product/report. This must be done 
in order for it to be a legitimate and legal business and your
recipients need the reports to send out their letters (with your name on them!) Always provide 
same-day service on the orders you receive. Be patient and persistent with this program. If you 
follow the instructions exactly, results will follow.

Remember this. Every time your name is moved down on the list, it is placed in front of a different 
report.  You can keep track of your progress by watching which report people are ordering from 
you. To generate more income, simply send out another batch of emails or continue placing ads 
and start the whole process again. There is no limit to the income you will generate from this 
business.

Consider these features of this fantastic business:
1) No face-to-face selling, no meetings, no inventory, no telephone calls (to make or receive), no 
big cost to start, nothing to learn, no skills needed.
2) No equipment to buy. You already have a computer and an Internet connection. You already 
have everything you need to fill orders.
3) You are selling a product which does not cost anything to produce or ship. Emailing the 
reports is free!
4) All your customers pay you in cash!

ACT NOW! Take your first step toward financial independence. Order the reports and follow the 
program outlined above. Success will be your reward.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's some information that may help you with your ness.

If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax 
is handled,
etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal Agency) at 1-800-
827-5722
for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via 
telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings are highly 
dependent on your activities and advertising. The information contained on this site and in the 
reports constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this 
site or report constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void.  The earnings 
amounts listed on this site and in the report are estimates only and dependent entirely on the 
individuals. If you have any question about the legality of this program, contact the Office of 
Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer 
Protection, Washington, D C.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 23 12:38:57 2000
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From: "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Salford
To: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:35:39 +0100
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Subject: Re: LDAP Extension Style Guide, re interaction between controls
Reply-to: d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
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Date sent:      	Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:01:00 -0700
To:             	d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From:           	"Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>

> The issue is that the extension, as defined by two recognized
> controls, is NOT understood because the semantics of the
> combination is not defined.
> 

Sorry, missed that point

> LDAP allows for a non-critical control to be ignored. 

This is the bit that, on its own, would come into conflict with X.500 if 
the aforementioned defect is accepted.

> This
> implies that if a request contains two controls, one critical
> and one not, is submitted to a server which recognizes BOTH
> controls but does not understand the semantics of the
> combination, the server must either:
>   a) return unavailableCriticalExtension
>   b) perform the operation as if the non-critical extension
>   was not specified.
> 
> I prefer option a) as it follows from the similar case:

I do too, as this is the same as if both were critical, and would be in 
the spirit of the X.500 defect correction.


> a request contains two controls, a recognized critical
> control and a unrecognized non-critical control.

In this case I would suggest option b) is followed, as the server only 
understands one of the controls, and is obeying it.

But what about the case of two controls, both non-critical, both 
understood in isolation, but the combination not. What does the 
server do now - selectively ignore one of them? If so which one?

I think the PKIX and X.509 guys may also hit the above problems, 
given that certificate extensions are object identifiers and can be 
defined by anyone. I will raise this topic on the PKIX list. 

David

P.S. The problem does not (or should not) arise for DAP as all the 
extensions (controls) are specified together as a whole in one 
document, and each extension is identified by an integer. 
Interactions should be fully spelt out in the base standard, and 
private extensions cannot be defined (legally).

> 
> However, I can see the value offered in option b.
> 
> >I would like LDAP to 
> >either take the same stance for compatibility purposes, or to 
> >persuade the X.500 , PKIX and other groups that the proposed 
> >solution is wrong and that the server should be free to choose what
> >to do. Either way, I think that compatibility should be the target.
> 
> I concur!
> 
> 


***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 23 13:03:54 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:58:11 -0700
To: d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: LDAP Extension Style Guide, re interaction between controls
Cc: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 05:35 PM 8/23/00 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:
>But what about the case of two controls, both non-critical, both 
>understood in isolation, but the combination not. What does the 
>server do now - selectively ignore one of them? If so which one?

I suggest ignore both under the general principle of least
astonishment.  I suggest:

An operation may be extended by one or more controls.  If the
combination of controls is unrecognized, undefined, or the
server is otherwise unwilling to perform the operation as
extended by the sequence of provided controls,
  if any of the controls are marked critical, the server
  SHALL return unavailableCriticalExtension,
  otherwise the server SHALL perform the operation as if
  no controls were provided.

That is, combined control semantics is all or nothing.



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 24 19:19:44 2000
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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:18:05 -0700 (PDT)
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From: investment2000@home.com
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Subject:  300% return  on investment
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Hello, here is a program that pays 3-1 in just 3 months, plus 50% payments for referrals! I 
have confirmation that many are getting paid, so this looks like a good one to get into, 
even if it's just for the referral payouts! Minimum to invest is $100. If you are interested in 
signing up please send me an e-mail to signmeup@angelfire.com and you MUST type  " 
OK " in the subject matter or you will not get a response. Thank you.




From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 24 21:22:13 2000
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From: "MD" <md@theinbox.org>
To: tax.&.debt.free@netscape.com
Subject:  evil IRS & debt collectors
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From list@netscape.com  Fri Aug 25 19:30:25 2000
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From list@netscape.com  Sat Aug 26 21:52:42 2000
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Please read this message, because it is for you....."Seek ye the Lord while He may be 
found, call upon Him while He is near, Let the wicked forsake his way and the 
unrighteous man his thoughts, and let him return unto the Lord for He will have mercy, 
and unto our God for He will abundantly pardon". Don't wait another day, do this 
today my friend and find forgiveness for all your sins, for how shall we escape if we 
neglect so great salvation? Get on your knees and ask God the Father, that Jesus 
Christ may be your Saviour ( for there is no other name under heaven given unto men 
whereby we MUST be saved ) and turn from your sins and turn your heart to Him 
today. Don't wait another day. Ask the Lord to give you a heart that loves Him and 
that wants to serve Him. Ask Him to give you a hatred for your sins, and that He will 
be your strength in turning from them, and He will do ALL the work in saving your 
soul. Start reading the Bible....the book of Proverbs, and the Psalms. Read the 
Gospels of Matthew,Mark, Luke and John. Oh, read it brothers and sisters, for the 
Lord will bless you when you read His book, and there is so much help and wisdom 
regarding how we are to live today. Also, we get our strength from God whenever we 
need it. The word of God say's " If you seek Him with all your heart you will surely 
find Him." Believe this my friend. You then will find peace with God, and that alone is 
true peace. We must find salvation today, for the day of the Lord is coming, and it just 
might be sooner than we realize! There will be eternal joy in heaven forever for the 
lovers of God and His word, and there will be eternal sorrow and no peace forever , 
for those who do not . Will you be ready to meet God? I am praying for you my friend 
that you will be. Amen




From list@netscape.com  Sun Aug 27 07:42:27 2000
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From: "<Prosperity" <prosperity4unow@alloymail.com>
Subject: 30,000 enrolled in less than 10 days!
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:03:10
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**********************************************************************
Please Note: You're receiving this email because you answered an advert 
I ran, you sent an ad about your program to one of my e-mail addresses,
or you posted a link at my FFA links site. If at anytime you would like 
to be Removed from my address book, simply click on the link below
mailto:remove.me@lakmail.com?Subject=REMOVE
or send a blank e-mail to remove.me@lakmail.com with "REMOVE " in the 
subject line and you'll be removed immediately.
Thank you.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



From list@netscape.com  Sun Aug 27 11:54:59 2000
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From: "David Chadwick" <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Salford
To: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>, ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:52:19 +0100
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Subject: Re: LDAP Extension Style Guide, re interaction between controls
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Date sent:      	Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:58:11 -0700
To:             	d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From:           	"Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>

> I suggest ignore both under the general principle of least
> astonishment.  I suggest:
> 
> An operation may be extended by one or more controls.  If the
> combination of controls is unrecognized, undefined, or the
> server is otherwise unwilling to perform the operation as
> extended by the sequence of provided controls,
>   if any of the controls are marked critical, the server
>   SHALL return unavailableCriticalExtension,

I dont like this. Under the principle of "the server should do its best 
to provide a useful service", it should obey the known critical 
extension and ignore the non-critical ones.

This was the suggested text that I sent to PKIX list that 
unfortunately you did not receive (see below)


" A validation engine that does not understand the interaction of a 
non-critical extension with another extension (critical or non-critical),
may ignore the non-critical extension (even if it understands the
semantics of the extension in isolation to the others), and accept the
certificate (unless factors other than this extension cause it to be
rejected).

A validation engine that does not understand the interaction of two 
critical extensions, must reject the certificate (even if it understands
the semantics of both extensions in isolation to each other)."

>   otherwise the server SHALL perform the operation as if
>   no controls were provided.
> 
> That is, combined control semantics is all or nothing.
> 
> 

My messages directly to you are getting bounced as follows:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. The following address(es) failed:

  Kurt@OpenLDAP.org:
    SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL
    FROM:<d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>: host mail.openldap.org
    [204.152.186.51]: 550 5.0.0 Rejected - see
    http://www.mail-abuse.org/rss/

This means that you did NOT get a copy about this topic that I sent 
to the PKIX group. They are now following up on this, and are 
proposing to produce a table of allowed extensions that can be 
used in combinations. Is this something that LDAPExt should do?

David

P.s could the bouncing be due to my newly installed firewall that 
ignores messages from unknown hosts (I am operating in stealth 
mode). I noticed that I received an unidentified message 
immediately after sending an email to you. Are you testing out 
senders to see if they exist?

***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************



From list@netscape.com  Sun Aug 27 13:33:16 2000
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Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 10:30:02 -0700
To: d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: LDAP Extension Style Guide, re interaction between controls
Cc: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
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At 04:52 PM 8/27/00 +0100, David Chadwick wrote:
>Date sent:              Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:58:11 -0700
>To:                     d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk
>From:                   "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>
>
>> I suggest ignore both under the general principle of least
>> astonishment.  I suggest:
>> 
>> An operation may be extended by one or more controls.  If the
>> combination of controls is unrecognized, undefined, or the
>> server is otherwise unwilling to perform the operation as
>> extended by the sequence of provided controls,
>>   if any of the controls are marked critical, the server
>>   SHALL return unavailableCriticalExtension,
>
>I dont like this. Under the principle of "the server should do its best 
>to provide a useful service", it should obey the known critical 
>extension and ignore the non-critical ones.

I go back and forth on this issue.  I guess if the client wants
to ensure that the server fully recognizes the combination of
controls, the client should mark each the controls as critical.

So, basically, the server must ignore non-critical extensions
which don't make sense in the context of the operation.

If the operation has recognized and supported controls A, B and C.
Where A is critical, B and C are non-critical, the semantics of A+B and
A+C are defined, and the semantics of A+B+C are not defined (or
explicitly defined as invalid), then the server may perform either:
        A, A+B, or A+C.

>This was the suggested text that I sent to PKIX list that 
>unfortunately you did not receive (see below)

I do recall seeing that (directly, I'm not subscribed to the
PKIX list)...  I'll chat with you off line (if our MTAs will
cooperate).
        Kurt



From list@netscape.com  Sun Aug 27 22:03:01 2000
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From: "Steven Legg" <steven.legg@adacel.com.au>
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Subject: Matching Rules for Constructed Syntaxes
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 12:58:31 +1000
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LDAPers and PKIXers,

The LDAP ACI model and PKIX both have to deal with attribute syntaxes
that are complex constructed types. Matching rules for those syntaxes
have recently been discussion topics so it seems like a good time to
describe some ideas for matching rules that have been kicking around
in the back of my head for a while. First I'll address the question of
an equality matching rule for ldapACI and then go on to describe some
generic matching rules for complex syntaxes that would be useful to
both LDAP access control and PKIX, among other things.

One approach for ldapACI is the X.500 solution where a DirectoryString
label has been made a component of the ACI and the
directoryStringFirstComponentMatch matching rule is used to decide the
equality of two ACIs. This satisfies some basic requirements to be
able to match ACIs but the equality of two ACI values doesn't really
say anything about them at the semantic level.

Back when I was with Telstra we defined a catch-all equality matching rule
that could do a comparison of two attribute values of any arbitrary
ASN.1 syntax. This rule, or something like it, could be used as the
equality matching rule for the ldapACI attribute. The X.500 style
definition is simply this:

asn1Match MATCHING-RULE ::= {
	ID			{ 1 3 32 0 1 13 0 } }

Since no assertion syntax is specified, the syntax is inherited at
run time from the attribute type to which the matching rule is applied.
So the assertion syntax would be LdapACI if asn1Match is used to match
against the ldapACI attribute.

I have a slight problem defining this matching rule in LDAP terms because
the string encoding for MatchingRuleDescription doesn't allow an absent
SYNTAX.

This matching rule evaluates to true if and only if the attribute value
and the assertion value have the same components with the same values.

If the syntax is a SEQUENCE or SET type then each component in
the assertion value must match each component of the attribute value.
Optional components must be either both present or both absent.

If the syntax is a SEQUENCE OF then the attribute value and the
assertion value must have the same instances (members)
in the same order.

If the syntax is a SET OF then the attribute value and the assertion
value must have the same instances (and the same duplicates),
but order doesn't matter.

If the syntax is a CHOICE then the attribute value and the assertion value
must use the same CHOICE alternative.

The rules apply recursively to nested constructed types.

The primitive types like OBJECT IDENTIFIER, BOOLEAN, INTEGER, etc
match as one would expect. The string types are just matched character
for character.


The asn1Match rule would be fine as the equality matching rule for the
ldapACI attribute and would have much the same effect as was intended
by the original use of caseIgnoreMatch and DirectoryString syntax.
However, where there is a complex constructed syntax there is usually
a desire to selectively match only some of the components, e.g. to
match ACIs with a specific subject, or with specific rights.
What usually happens is that a bunch of new matching rules are defined
to cover the anticipated needs. Just look at X.509 and PKI for examples.

Rather than going down this path I would like to suggest a generic
way of selectively matching components in arbitrary syntaxes.
The following matching rule is something I've often thought about
implementing but haven't as yet.

componentMatch MATCHING-RULE ::= {
	SYNTAX		ComponentAssertion
	ID			<to be supplied>
}

ComponentAssertion ::= SEQUENCE {
	component	[0] PrintableString,
	rule		[1] MATCHING-RULE.&id, -- MatchingRuleId
	value		[2] MATCHING-RULE.&AssertionType -- AssertionValue
}

The idea here is that the component field identifies which part of a
value of a constructed syntax is to be matched, the rule indicates how that
part is to be matched, and the value is what that part is matched against.

X.680, section 12 already describes a way to reference the components
of an arbitrary ASN.1 type but it hasn't got a BER encoding so I'm just
stuffing it as text into a PrintableString.

Basically the component referencing string is a series of "." separated
componentIds where a componentId is usually the ASN.1 identifier for
the component. The componentId can also be a positive number to reference
a particular instance in a SET OF or SEQUENCE OF, "*" to reference
all the instances in a SET OF or SEQUENCE OF, or the number zero,
which is a conceptual count of the number of instances.

An example should make this clearer. First, here is the ASN.1 definition
of the syntax of the objectClasses schema attribute (not to be confused
with the objectClass attribute), so that I have something reasonably
familiar to base examples on.

ObjectClassDescription ::= SEQUENCE {
	identifier		OBJECT-CLASS.&id,
	name			SET OF DirectoryString { ub-schema } OPTIONAL,
	description		DirectoryString { ub-schema } OPTIONAL,
	obsolete		BOOLEAN DEFAULT FALSE,
	information	[0]	ObjectClassInformation
}

ObjectClassInformation	::=	SEQUENCE {
	subclassOf		SET OF OBJECT-CLASS.&id OPTIONAL,
	kind			ObjectClassKind DEFAULT structural,
	mandatories	[3]	SET OF ATTRIBUTE.&id OPTIONAL,
	optionals	[4]	SET OF ATTRIBUTE.&id OPTIONAL
}

OBJECT-CLASS.&id and ATTRIBUTE.&id are equivalent to the OBJECT IDENTIFIER
ASN.1 type.

So for a given value with the ObjectClassDescription syntax (i.e. a
value of the objectClasses attribute) ...

"identifier" references the OID of the object class description,
"description" references the text description of the object class,
"name.*" references all of the object class's names,
"name.0" gives the number of names defined for the object class,
"name.1" references the first of those names,
"information" references the whole ObjectClassInformation nested SEQUENCE,
"information.kind" references the ObjectClassKind in the nested SEQUENCE,
"information.mandatories.*" references all the mandatory attribute types
	for the object class

... and so on.

Each referenced component has a specific ASN.1 type. For example,
"identifier" is of type OBJECT IDENTIFIER and "name.1" is of type
DirectoryString. The type of "information.mandatories" is
SET OF OBJECT IDENTIFIER but the corresponding type for
"information.mandatories.*" I'll take to be OBJECT IDENTIFIER
(the instance type of the SET OF). The ".0" instance counts I'll assume
to be INTEGER.

Now that I've got a way to reference components I need to say how they
are matched. I could specify a new bunch of rules for different kinds
of matching on different ASN.1 types but it is convenient to just use
existing attribute matching rules. Each matching rule has a notional
set of attribute syntaxes (typically one), defined as ASN.1 types, to
which it may be applied. When embedded in a ComponentAssertion these
matching rules apply to the same ASN.1 types, only in this context the
types aren't necessarily attribute syntaxes. So the "identifier"
component of an objectClasses attribute value could be matched with
objectIdentifierMatch. The "name.*" component (instances) could be
matched with caseIgnoreMatch, caseExactMatch, caseIgnoreOrderingMatch,
or even caseIgnoreSubstringMatch. Any component, regardless of its
ASN.1 type could be matched by the asn1Match rule. The assertion value
that goes with the chosen matching rule will be of the syntax required
by that rule.

Because constructed types can have CHOICEs and OPTIONAL fields it is
possible that the referenced component does not exist in an attribute value.
In these cases the matching rule would evaluate to false.


Now for a few example filters using the componentMatch matching rule.
I don't want to go to the trouble of defining complete ABNF right
now so I'm using a string encoding that is a mix of ASN.1 value notation,
which I trust is verbose enough to be sufficiently clear, and LDAP string
encodings for well known ASN.1 types. I've put in spacing and line breaks
only as an aid to readability. The example search filters are mostly
single extensible match filter items, though of course there is no
reason why componentMatch can't be used in more complicated search filters.

To find the object class definition for the object class called
foobar use the filter:

(objectClasses:componentMatch:={
	component "names.*",
	rule caseIgnoreMatch,
	value "foobar" })

An object class definition can have multiple names and the above filter
will match an objectClasses value if any one of the names is "foobar".

To find all obsolete object classes use:

(objectClasses:componentMatch:={
	component "obsolete",
	rule booleanMatch,
	value TRUE })

To find all subclasses of "person" use:

(objectClasses:componentMatch:={
	component "information.subclassOf.*",
	rule objectIdentifierMatch,
	value person })

To find the object class definition for 2.5.6.18 use:

(objectClasses:componentMatch:={
	component "identifier",
	rule objectIdentifierMatch,
	value 2.5.6.18 })

A match on the "identifier" component of objectClasses values
is equivalent to the objectIdentifierFirstComponentMatch matching
rule applied to this attribute type. The componentMatch matching rule
subsumes the objectIdentifierFirstComponentMatch, integerFirstComponentMatch
and directoryStringFirstComponentMatch matching rules.

To find all values of the ldapACI attribute that have my DN in the subject
field I could use (refer to draft-ietf-ldapext-acl-model-06.txt for the
ASN.1 type definition of the ldapACI syntax):

(ldapACI:componentMatch:={
	component "subject.dn",
	rule distinguishedNameMatch,
	value "cn=Steven Legg, o=Adacel, c=au" })

The subject component is a CHOICE of which "dn" is one of several
possibilities. Those values with a different choice won't match the
filter item.

To find all ACIs that apply to the commonName attribute:

(ldapACI:componentMatch:=
	{ component "attr.attributes.*", rule objectIdentifierMatch, value cn })


The componentMatch rule allows any one component in a constructed value
to be matched but there are often good reasons to want to match more than
one component in the same constructed value. This is particularly true
for the matching of certificates and related constructs in PKIX.
Most, if not all, of the desired functionality could be achieved
with the following matching rule whose assertion syntax is a filter
of component matches.

componentFilterMatch MATCHING-RULE ::= {
	SYNTAX		ComponentFilter
	ID			<to be supplied>
}

ComponentFilter ::= CHOICE {
	item		[0] ComponentAssertion,
	and			[1] SEQUENCE OF ComponentFilter,
	or			[2] SEQUENCE OF ComponentFilter,
	not			[3] ComponentFilter
}

The component filter is evaluated over a single attribute value rather
than a whole entry. Note that a matching rule like this gives us the same
capability for matching components of a constructed syntax that a regular
search filter would give us had the constructed syntax been exploded out
as a set of attributes of simpler syntaxes in a subordinate entry.

The observant will notice that componentMatch is a special case of
componentFilterMatch so we don't really need componentMatch.

Here are some example search filters using the componentFilterMatch
matching rule.

To find all object class definitions that reference the commonName
AND surname attributes as mandatory attributes use:

(objectClasses:componentFilterMatch:=and:{
		item:{ component "information.mandatories.*",
			rule objectIdentifierMatch, value cn },
		item:{ component "information.mandatories.*",
			rule objectIdentifierMatch, value sn } })

To find all object class definitions that reference the commonName
AND surname attributes as either mandatory OR optional attributes:

(objectClasses:componentFilterMatch:=and:{
	or:{
		item:{ component "information.mandatories.*",
			rule objectIdentifierMatch, value cn },
		item:{ component "information.optionals.*",
			rule objectIdentifierMatch, value cn }
	},
	or:{
		item:{ component "information.mandatories.*",
			rule objectIdentifierMatch, value sn },
		item:{ component "information.optionals.*",
			rule objectIdentifierMatch, value sn }
	}
})

The next example is inspired by Sean Mullan.

Sean Mullan wrote:
> What happens if you want to define a matching rule to only retrieve certs
> that contain a specific basic constraints value AND a certain issuer name?
In
> this case, you would define 2 matching rules and specify both of them in
> the valuesReturnFilter control. But then you would get all certs with the
> requested issuer name and any basic constraints value and all certs with
> any issuer name and the requested basic constraints value. That's not
> what you wanted. I think we may want to enhance the valuesReturnFilter
> control (through a flag, perhaps) to allow the user to apply all of the
> elements of the filter to each attribute value. Let's discuss this more
> offline, if you like.

Here is a component filter match on a specific value of basic constraints
AND a certain issuer name:

(userCertificate:componentFilterMatch:=and:{
	item:{ component "extensions.*", rule asn1Match,
		value { extnId 2.5.29.19, extnValue '3003020102'H } },
	item:{ component "issuer.rdnSequence", rule distinguishedNameMatch,
		value "cn=CA, o=Adacel, c=au" } })

2.5.29.19 is the OID for the basicConstraints extension. Unfortunately
the extension value (extnValue) is defined to be a DER encoding wrapped
in an OCTET STRING (ugh!).

In the above example it was particularly convenient to use the
asn1Match rule to match the whole extension, i.e.
{ extnId 2.5.29.19, extnValue '3003020102'H }, in one hit, instead
of writing a nested "and" filter of each of the components of
the extension. The asn1Match rule is essentially a short hand
for an "and" component filter specifying every component.


I can imagine situations where it would be useful to test not only if
a *specific* value of a particular component is present but whether *any*
value of a particular component is present. Hence the following
matching rule:

presentMatch MATCHING-RULE ::= {
	SYNTAX		NULL
	ID			<to be supplied>
}

When used on an attribute in a extensible match filter item it behaves
like the present case of a regular search filter. In a ComponentAssertion
it evaluates to true if and only if the referenced component exists.

To find object class definitions that have descriptions use:

(objectClasses:componentMatch:=
	{ component "description", rule presentMatch, NULL })

To find object class definitions that don't have descriptions use:

(objectClasses:componentFilterMatch:=
	not:item:{ component "description", rule presentMatch, NULL })

To find the object class definitions that are not marked as obsolete
(the "obsolete" component is absent, or is present and set to FALSE):

(objectClasses:componentFilterMatch:=or:{
	not:item:{ component "obsolete", rule presentMatch, NULL },
	item:{ component "obsolete", rule booleanMatch, FALSE } })


The DistinguishedName and RelativeDistinguishedName ASN.1 types are
also constructed types so the component matching rules could be
applied to them.

For convenience, here is the stripped down ASN.1 type for DNs.

DistinguishedName ::= SEQUENCE OF RelativeDistinguishedName

RelativeDistinguishedName ::= SET OF AttributeTypeAndValue

AttributeTypeAndValue ::= SEQUENCE {
	type		AttributeType, -- OBJECT IDENTIFIER
	value		AttributeValue -- ANY }

To find all seeAlso attributes (DN syntax) containing the RDN "o=Adacel"
use:

(seeAlso:componentMatch:=
	{ component "*", rule componentFilterMatch, value
		and:{
			item:{ component "0", rule integerMatch, value 1 },
			item:{ component "*", rule asn1Match, value
				{ type o, value "Adacel" } }
		}
	})

This assertion tests each RDN (referenced by the first "*") to see if
it has exactly one AVA (the count is given by "0") with attribute type
organization and value "Adacel".

Since RDNs appear all over the place it makes sense to define a
matching rule that can make RDN matching more concise.

rdnMatch MATCHING-RULE ::= {
	SYNTAX		RelativeDistinguishedName
	ID			<to be supplied>
}

The rdnMatch rule evaluates to true if the component value and assertion
value are the same RDN.

Now the above example to find all seeAlso attributes containing the
RDN "o=Adacel" becomes:

(seeAlso:componentMatch:={ component "*", rule rdnMatch, value "o=Adacel" })

The rdnMatch can be useful wherever DNs appear. To find all values of the
ldapACI attribute that have "o=Adacel" somewhere in the DN in the subject
field use:

(ldapACI:componentMatch:=
	{ component "subject.dn.*", rule rdnMatch, value "o=Adacel" })

To find all seeAlso values with "o=Adacel, c=au" as a "suffix"
(noting that the string encoding of LDAPDN puts the RDNs in
reverse order) use:

(seeAlso:componentFilterMatch:=and:{
	item:{ component "1", rule rdnMatch, value "c=au" },
	item:{ component "2", rule rdnMatch, value "o=Adacel" } })

There's a case for being able to specify a match against the last component,
or second last component, etc, but we'd have to invent a syntax for that.


Okay, so what do people think ? The value of componentFilterMatch and
friends is that they implicitly define a bunch of useful matching rule
semantics for a new attribute syntax the moment the ASN.1 type is
written down, and are automatically extended if the ASN.1 type is later
extended. We might never need to define another matching rule for a
constructed syntax. What would be missing though is a definition of
the string encoding, so having a predictable way of generating the
ABNF from the ASN.1 type would be particularly valuable. For the examples
above I didn't formally define the string encoding for ComponentAssertion
and ComponentFilter, themselves constructed types, but I was consistently
following a set of rules. Those rules would be my preferred solution
for algorithmically derived string encodings for new attribute and assertion
syntaxes.

Since the componentFilterMatch is generally useful, and can be applied
to any ASN.1 type, it makes more sense for me to write it up as a separate
Internet draft under the auspices of LDAPEXT, rather than incorporating
its definition into either the LDAP ACL model or the PKIX LDAP schema.
So is there support out there for me to go ahead and write this up as
an ID ? Will LDAP access control and PKIX make use of it ?

Regards,
Steven



From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 28 01:43:42 2000
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Reply-To: <steven.legg@adacel.com.au>
From: "Steven Legg" <steven.legg@adacel.com.au>
To: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <ietf-pkix@imc.org>
Subject: RE: Matching Rules for Constructed Syntaxes
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:40:19 +1000
Message-ID: <000801c010ba$d64288e0$b05508cb@osmium.adacel.com.au>
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Oops! I misread the ASN.1 for LdapACI.


This:

> (ldapACI:componentMatch:={
> 	component "subject.dn",
> 	rule distinguishedNameMatch,
> 	value "cn=Steven Legg, o=Adacel, c=au" })

should read:

(ldapACI:componentMatch:={
	component "subject.subject.dn",
	rule distinguishedNameMatch,
	value "cn=Steven Legg, o=Adacel, c=au" })

and this:

> (ldapACI:componentMatch:=
> 	{ component "subject.dn.*", rule rdnMatch, value "o=Adacel" })

should read:

(ldapACI:componentMatch:={
	component "subject.subject.dn.*",
	rule rdnMatch,
	value "o=Adacel" })

Cheers,
Steven



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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:53:52 -0600
From: "Haripriya S" <SHARIPRIYA@novell.com>
To: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
Subject: Updated version of EntrySelection draft
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Hi,

Iam attaching an updated version of the "EntrySelection control for LDAP =
operations on multiple entries", which I had submitted earlier. This draft =
incorporates the suggestions given by Kurt on this list earlier. Please go =
through this and give me your inputs.

Thanks and Regards,
Haripriya

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<BODY style=3D"FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Iam attaching an updated version of the "EntrySelection=
=20
control for LDAP operations on multiple entries", which&nbsp;I had =
submitted=20
earlier. This draft incorporates the suggestions given by Kurt on this =
list=20
earlier. Please go through this and give me your inputs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Thanks and Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Haripriya</FONT></DIV>
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INTERNET-DRAFT                                    Haripriya S., Novell
                                                          25 August 2000
Expiry: February 25 2001                                


		      EntrySelection control for
	LDAP modify and delete operations on multiple entries
	     <draft-haripriya-ldapext-entryselect-01.txt>

1. Status of this Memo

    This document is an Internet-Draft and is in full conformance with
    all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026.

    Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
    Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that
    other groups may also distribute working documents as
    Internet-Drafts.

    Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six
    months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other
    documents at any time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-
    Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work
    in progress."

      The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
      http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt

      The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
      http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.

    This Internet Draft expires February 25, 2001.

2. Abstract
    
    This document defines an LDAPv3 control that can select multiple
    entries in a subtree of a container entry for modification or
    deletion.  This control extends the scope of the LDAPv3 modify and
    delete operations as defined in [RFC 2251]. This control is useful
    for modifying or deleting multiple entries on the basis of a
    single selection criterion.  This may be useful for maintenance of
    an LDAP directory having a large number of objects.
    
    Example of Usage - This control can be used by client applications
    who have the need to modify or delete a large number of entries in
    an LDAP directory based on a selection criterion. One example of
    such a usage is when two departments in an organization merge. In
    this case the "department" name or number given to a number of
    employees need to change, and all the employees in a given
    department are to be assigned the new "department". Here the
    EntrySelection control can be used to select the entries to be
    modified based on the "department" value, and the modify operation
    can change the "department" value for all the selected entries to
    the given value.
    
    The EntrySelection control is useful when a large number of

Haripriya S. INTERNET-DRAFT                                          1

		      EntrySelection control for
       LDAP modify and delete on multiple entries, August 2000

    entries have to be modified or deleted, because what can be
    achieved in 1 LDAP client operation with the EntrySelection
    control will take a minimum of 1 + n LDAP operations (1 search, n
    modifies) otherwise.  This will save a lot of time and bandwidth,
    and hence very useful in situations where the clients are
    connected over high latency links. Also low-end clients which
    cannot handle a large number of objects, can use this feature.
    This also prevents cache pollution or false caching, where a large
    number of search results are returned only to be immediately
    modified or deleted, thus invalidating cached information for
    those results.
    
3. RFC Key Words
    
    The key words   "MUST",  "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED",  "SHALL",  "SHALL
    NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL"
    in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
    
4. EntrySelection request control
    
    A multi-entry modify or delete operation can be thought of as a
    combination of a search operation followed by modify or delete
    operation. The search operation in this case is used to select the
    entries for modification or deletion.
    
    For the purpose of selecting entries, an entry selection control
    is added. This control will be similar to a search request. The
    ControlType is <To Be Done>, the Criticality field may be TRUE or
    FALSE, and the controlValue is EntrySelection which is encoded as
    per the following syntax:
    
    EntrySelection ::= SEQUENCE {
        entryscope   [0] scope OPTIONAL, -- Scope for the operation
        derefAliases [1] aliases OPTIONAL, -- aliases

        timeLimit    [2] INTEGER  (0 .. maxInt) OPTIONAL, 
                                                -- for the selection --
        optimeLimit  [3] INTEGER (0 .. maxInt) OPTIONAL,
                                                -- for the operation --
        continueOnError [4] BOOLEAN OPTIONAL DEFAULT FALSE,
                                                -- for the operation --
        filter       [5] Filter OPTIONAL
      }

      scope :: = ENUMERATED {
          baseObject  (0),
          singleLevel  (1),
          wholeSubtree  (2) 
      }
    
      aliases ::= ENUMERATED {
          neverDerefAliases  (0),
          derefInSearching        (1),

Haripriya S. INTERNET-DRAFT                                          2

                      EntrySelection control for
       LDAP modify and delete on multiple entries, August 2000

          derefFindingBaseObj     (2),
          derefAlways    (3) 
      }

      The following definitions are the same as the corresponding
    definitions in [RFC 2251] 4.5.1.  They are just repeated here for
    completeness.
    
      Filter ::= CHOICE {
        and             [0] SET of Filter,
        or              [1] SET of Filter,
        not             [2] Filter,
        equalityMatch   [3] AttributeValueAssertion,
        subStrings      [4] SubstringFilter,
        greaterOrEqual  [5] AttributeValueAssertion,
        lessOrEqual     [6] AttributeValueAssertion,
        present         [7] AttributeDescription,
        approxMatch     [8] AttributeValueAssertion,
        extensibleMatch [9] MatchingRuleAssertion 
      }
    
      SubstringFilter ::= SEQUENCE {
        type        AttributeDescription,
        -- at least one must be present
        substrings  SEQUENCE OF CHOICE {
          initial  [0]  LDAPString,
          any      [1]  LDAPString,
          final    [2]  LDAPString  
        }
      }
      
      MatchingRuleAssertion  ::= SEQUENCE {
        matchingRule  [1]  MatchingRuleOd OPTIONAL,
        type          [2]  AttributeDescription OPTIONAL,
        matchValue    [3]  AssertionValue,
        dnAttributes  [4]  BOOLEAN DEFAULT FALSE 
      }
    
    entryScope: This field specifies the scope of the operation. It
    can be baseObject, oneLevel, or wholeSubTree. The field is
    OPTIONAL, and if not sent, the default scope of the operation will
    be baseObject, which is similar to the scope of a normal modify or
    delete operation.

    derefAliases: This field specified whether to dereference alias
    while selecting. This is also an OPTIONAL field, and if absent,
    the default is neverDerefAliases.

    filter: This field is similar to a search filter. It is OPTIONAL,
    and if absent, the control selects all entries, that are allowed
    by the scope and the other fields in the control.

    timeLimit: This OPTIONAL INTEGER field specifies the time limit

Haripriya S. INTERNET-DRAFT                                          3

                      EntrySelection control for
       LDAP modify and delete on multiple entries, August 2000

    in seconds, for the entry selection for the base operation. If the
    field is absent or 0, then no limit is assumed.
 
    optimeLimit: Similar to timeLimit but for the entire operation.
    Again, if this field is absent or 0, then no limit is assumed.

    continueOnError: This OPTIONAL BOOLEAN field is used by the client
    to indicate to the server whether to continue or stop the whole
    operation, if it encounters an error while performing the
    operation on one of the entries selected. The default value is
    FALSE and the corresponding behaviour is to stop the operation on
    error.

    The control is used to select the entries that are to be modified
    or deleted as per the LDAP request message that this attaches
    to. This control SHOULD only be used with an LDAP Modify or Delete
    request message. The server SHOULD ignore the control if used with
    any other message unless the criticality field is set to TRUE. If
    the criticality field is set to TRUE, then the server SHOULD return
    the resultCode unavailableCriticalExtension ( RFC 2251 Section
    4.1.12 ). The server MUST list this control as recognized in the
    supportedControl attribute in the root DSE.

5. Response messages
    
    The server upon request of an LDAP modify or delete request with
    an EntrySelection control in it can return the following
    responses: EntrySelectionPartialResponse, any other LDAP extended
    response (could be due to another control in the opertion
    requiring an extended response), or an LDAPResponse
    (ModifyResponse or DeleteResponse). For a non-abandoned operation,
    the server MUST return zero or more EntrySelectionPartialResponse,
    zero or more of any other extended response, and one
    ModifyResponse or DeleteResponse message. The ModifyResponse or
    DeleteResponse SHOULD be returned at the end after all other
    extended responses have been returned for the operation.

    The ModifyResponse or DeleteResponse will return the overall
    result for the whole operation on multiple entries, which MAY
    also contain some error codes for specifying the result of the
    entry selection operation, in addition to the error codes usually
    returned by a Modify or Delete operation. These error codes
    include timeLimitExceeded(2), adminLimitExceeded(11),
    undefinedAttributeType(17) and inappropriateMatching(18).

5.1 EntrySelectionPartialResponse extended partial response

    The EntrySelectionPartialResponse is sent to return partial
    results, as the operation progresses. This is used to inform the
    client about the result of the operations on each selected entry
    and for returning search continuation results.

    The EntrySelectionPartialResponse MUST be returned by the server

Haripriya S. INTERNET-DRAFT                                          4

                      EntrySelection control for
       LDAP modify and delete on multiple entries, August 2000

    in the following cases: 

    a. Immediately after attempting the operation for each entry
    selected by the EntrySelection filter.

    b. The server is unable to search an entry in the scope, at or
    under the baseObject, but can return references to another set of
    servers for continuing the operation.

    The EntrySelectionPartialResponse is returned in a generalized
    "ExtendedPartialResponse". ExtendedPartialResponse is defined in
    the [extpartresp] document as follows:

      ExtendedPartialResponse ::= [ APPLICATION 25 ] SEQUENCE {
          responseName       [0] LDAPOID OPTIONAL,
          response           [1] OCTET STRING OPTIONAL }
      
    Note: The current version of the [ExtPartResp] draft does not
    define a generalized ExtendedPartialResponse. Work is going on to
    generalize it. This draft assumes a generalized
    ExtendedPartialResponse for its purpose.
      
    A specific ExtendedPartialResponse for EntrySelection is defined
    from generalized ExtendedPartialResponse as follows:

    The EntrySelectionPartialResponse will be a 'specific' generalized
    ExtendedPartialResponse with the 'responseName' of <toBeDone> and
    the value of 'response' field is an octet string which is the BER
    encoding of the following:

      EntrySelectionPartialResult ::= CHOICE {
        entry              [0] EntryResult,
        searchContinuation [1] SEQUENCE OF LDAPURL
      }
 
      EntryResult ::= SEQUENCE {
	resultcode             resultCode
        matchedDN              LDAPDN
      }
 
    resultCode is defined as in RFC 2251 [RFC2251] 4.1.10 for LDAPResult.
 
6. Semantics of the EntrySelection and EntrySelectionResponse
    Controls
    
    The EntrySelection control, will behave like an LDAP search
    operation at the server. The server MUST select all the entries
    that are selected as per the EntrySelection control, before
    starting the modify or delete operation on any of the matched
    entries.  If deleting entries, the server MUST make sure that all
    the child entries in the selected list are processed before their
    parents are processed for deletion. The server SHOULD NOT process
    the entries in such a way that it would orphan the entries.

Haripriya S. INTERNET-DRAFT                                          5

                      EntrySelection control for
       LDAP modify and delete on multiple entries, August 2000

    
    If the condition of the EntryCriterion evaluates to TRUE with
    respect to a given DN (either the base DN if the scope is base, or
    any of the subtree/children DNs if the subtree or onelevel scope
    is set), then the LDAP server should do the modify or the delete
    operation that has been specified in the delete or modify request.
    If the condition evaluates to UNKNOWN or FALSE, then the operation
    MUST NOT be attempted on the corresponding DN.

    If the 'timelimit' in the EntrySelection control is exceeded
    before the search is over, only the entries selected will be
    considered for modification/deletion, and the ModifyResponse or
    DeleteResponse will return a resultCode of 'timeLimitExceeded'. If
    the 'optimeLimit' in the control is exceeded before the whole
    operation (the selection plus the modifies/deletes) is complete,
    then operation will be stopped, and a ModifyResponse or
    DeleteResponse is returned, with resultCode being
    'timeLimitExceeded'. The EntrySelectionPartialResponses that may
    have been received by the client in the latter case will indicate
    to the client that the timeout did not happen during the
    selection, but during the operation.
    
6.1 Atomicity of the operation and effect of abandon: 
    
    The modify or delete operation on each selected entry MUST be done
    atomically, but the server NEED NOT ensure that the modify/delete
    operation across all selected entries are done as one atomic
    operation. The atomicity of the entire operation will be the same
    as if a client first did a search, and then based on the entries
    selected, gave a series of modify or delete requests. If a client
    makes changes to some of the entries that are selected by the
    EntrySelection filter, while the operation is in progress, the
    combined result of the operations is undefined.

    The server MUST send extended partial responses for each selected
    entry on which the modify/delete opeation was attempted. If the
    client sends an abandon request in the middle of processing, the
    server MUST stop the processing immediately, including the
    modify/delete on the current entry it was processing. The server
    MUST NOT send a ModifyResponse/DeleteResponse, or an
    EntrySelectionPartialResponse for the current entry in this
    case. The client will be able to find the entries for which the
    operation has been tried, along with the the result of the
    operation, by looking at the EntrySelectionPartialResponses that
    have been received from the server. The client MUST NOT expect
    that the modify/delete operation on all the selected entries will
    be done as one atomic operation.
    
7. Errors and Return Codes
    
    If modify or delete operations succeed on all the objects where
    one or more objects are selected, and no timeouts occured, then
    the LDAP operation MUST return a result code of success.

Haripriya S. INTERNET-DRAFT                                          6

                      EntrySelection control for
       LDAP modify and delete on multiple entries, August 2000

    
7.1 Deciding on the return values
   
    The server MUST decide what values and error codes to return based
    on the decision function below, and on the return values of LDAP
    modify and delete operations. The decision logic to be followed at
    the server end is discussed as a pseudo-code below, and each
    tagged branch (eg. // 7.1.3 ) represents a sub-section describing
    a specific decision that must be followed by the server.

    LDAPopnresult: Result Code for the LDAP operation ( modify or
    delete). This is the value that will be sent in the LDAPResult of
    LDAPResponse. This can be any of the resultcodes specified for
    Modify, Delete and Search operations in [rescodes].
    
    LDAPopnDN: The DN returned in the LDAPResponse.
    
    selectResult: The result code for the select operation due to
    EntrySelection control.
    
    entryResult: The result code associated with each entry for which
    the operation was attempted to be sent in
    EntrySelectionPartialResponses.

    entryDN: The DN of the entry on which the modify or delete was
    attempted.

    entry: The entry field in the EntrySelectionPartialResponse

    The following conditions are possible:
    
    if (baseDN is not available)
      if (there are no referrals) // 7.1.1
        LDAPopnresult = noSuchObject
        LDAPopnDN = BaseDN
        send LDAPResponse
      else (if there are referrals) // 7.1.2
        LDAPopnresult = referral
        referrals field is filled with referral, send LDAPResponse
      endif
    else /* baseDN exists */
      while (there are continuation references found during searching) do
        Send the continuation references in 'searchContinuation' // 7.1.3
          in EntrySelectionPartialResponse packets, 
          'entry' field not sent.
      done
      if (search was successful or resulted in
          timeLimitExceeded or adminLimitExceeded) // 7.1.4
	LDAPopnresult = success/timeLimitExceeded/adminLimitExceeded
        if (no entries are returned by the search) // 7.1.5
          send LDAPResponse and return
        else /* Entries are returned by search */
          while (there are entries remaining to be processed) // 7.1.6 

Haripriya S. INTERNET-DRAFT                                          7

                      EntrySelection control for
       LDAP modify and delete on multiple entries, August 2000

            process entry named by entryDN
            lasterror = error code returned for operation on entry
            if (adminLimit OR optimeLimit exceeded 
                while in modify/delete) // 7.1.7
              LDAPopnresult = adminLimitExceeded/timeLimitExceeded
              toquit = yes
            else if (lasterror != success AND continueOnError is not set)
                                        // 7.1.8
              toquit = yes
            endif
            Fill up an EntrySelectionPartialResponse with
            entry.resultCode = lasterror
            entry.matchedDN = entryDN
            Send EntrySelectionPartialResponse, with entry field, 
              searchContinuation field not sent
            if (toquit == yes) // 7.1.9
              break;                        
          endif /* some entries remaining */
        endif /* Some entries returned by search */
      else /* Search was not successful */ // 7.1.11
        LDAPopnresult = selectResult
        LDAPopnDN = baseDN
      endif
      if (LDAPopnresult == success) { // 7.1.12
        LDAPopnresult = lasterror
        if (lasterror required matchedDN to be returned // 7.1.13 
            as per RFC 2251 4.1.10)
          LDAPopnDN = entryDN
        endif
      endif
      Send ModifyResponse or DeleteResponse with LDAPResult containing
        LDAPopnDN and LDAPopnResult  
    endif

    The user can decide to stop on error in modify/delete or can set
    the continueOnError to 1, so that if even an error occurs during
    modify/delete on an entry, the whole operation will still
    continue. Otherwise when the first error occurs, the server MUST
    stop processing the modify or delete for further entries.
    
    If the number of modifies or deletes possible in a single LDAP
    operation is exceeded, then the server SHOULD return
    adminLimitExceeded(11).  In this case objects should have been
    processed till the error was reached, and the situation is defined
    in 7.1.7.
    
7.2 Behavior of server with respect to Criticality
    
    The default behavior in the absence of the Criticality field is
    as if the Criticality field is set to false for the control. If
    the control is not recognized, and the Criticality is set to TRUE,
    then the server MUST return an unavailableCriticalExtension
    result code. If the control is not recognized and the criticality

Haripriya S. INTERNET-DRAFT                                          8

                      EntrySelection control for
       LDAP modify and delete on multiple entries, August 2000

    is set to False, then the server should try to perform the
    operation specified on the BaseDN alone and ignore the control. In
    case unavailablecriticalextension is returned, then the server
    should not send any of the EntrySelectionPartialResponses.
    
8. Making the operation idempotent with respect to retries
    
    Multi-entry deletions even if done partially (only on a subset of
    all the entries that were selected) will result in idempotent
    retries, because the deleted entries will not be returned by the
    EntrySelection filter the next time.  But in an entry modify, an
    add or a delete value, and or an add or delete attribute could
    cause a AttributeOrValueAlreadyExists or noSuchAttribute, if the
    operation has already been done.
    
    Example: Let ou=hr,o=org be an organizationalUnit in company org.
    Let cn=jsmith,ou=hr,o=org and cn=mwhite,ou=hr,o=org be two objects
    of class "inetOrgPerson" under this ou.  A multivalued attribute
    "telephoneNumber" and a singlevalued attribute "preferredLanguage"
    are optional attributes for "inetOrgPerson". Let the client
    request, a modify operation on "ou=hr,o=org", with an
    EntrySelection control with the LDAP search filter[RFC 2254]
    "objectclass=inetOrgPerson", be as follows (in [ldif] format):
    
      dn: ou=hr,o=org
      changetype: modify
      add: telephoneNumber
      telephoneNumber: 801-861-2222
      -
      delete: preferredLanguage
    
    If the first time around both entries "jsmith" and "mwhite" had
    "preferredLanguage", and the operation failed on "mwhite" but
    succeeded on "jsmith", then when the retry is done the operation
    on "jsmith" would fail due to two reasons:
    
    i) The value "801-861-2222" for "telephoneNumber" already exists -
    AttributeOrValueAlreadyExists
    
    ii) The attribute "preferredLanguage" is already deleted -
    noSuchAttribute
    
    The approach taken here is to let the client's filter take care of
    such conditions creating noSuchAttribute (modify or delete a
    attribute that does not exist), or AttributeOrValueAlreadyExists
    (adding an already existing value to a multivalued attribute or
    adding a single valued attribute which already exists). The
    argument behind this approach is that such conditions could even
    happen the first time around (without a retry), if the entry was
    already in that state.
    
    In case the client takes care of these two error conditions, the
    client's filter in the EntrySelection should be the equivalent of

Haripriya S. INTERNET-DRAFT                                          9

                      EntrySelection control for
       LDAP modify and delete on multiple entries, August 2000

    
    '(&(objectclass=inetOrgPerson)(!(telephoneNumber="801-861-2222"))
                                               (preferredLanguage=*))'
    
    so that it can avoid changing the same attributes twice and thus
    getting an error.
    
    NOTE: There is no [ldif] format available for specifying the
    information in an EntrySelection control yet. These examples are
    not working examples but just to illustrate a situation.

6. Interaction with the TreeDelete control [treedelete]
    
    If a TreeDelete control is set for a delete operation, then its
    semantics is the same as if an EntrySelection control is sent with
    the search filter being "objectclass=*", and the scope being
    "sub". This similarity is with respect to the functionality of the
    operation, but error handling and behavior with respect to
    referrals etc. may vary. Also, the semantics for partial
    processing of the operation for the EntrySelection control are
    different from the TreeDelete control.
    
    If both the TreeDelete control and the EntrySelection control are
    present on a given LDAP delete request, then the server SHOULD
    return an LDAP resultcode of unwillingToPerform(53).
    
7. Security Considerations
    
    There are no direct security related issues discussed in this
    document. But this control could indirectly cause a server to deny
    service to legitimate clients because of the server being loaded
    by a huge number of modifies and deletes due to this
    control. Administrative limits MAY be set for a given server to
    cope with such situations, and if exceeded the server SHOULD
    return with an adminLimitExceeded error.
    
8. References
    
    [RFC 2251]
        M.  Wahl,  T. Howes, S.  Kille,  "Lightweight Directory Access
        Protocol (v3)", RFC 2251, December 1997.
    
    [RFC 2254]
        T. Howes, "The String  Representation of LDAP Search Filters",
        RFC 2254, December 1997.
    
    [RFC 2119]
        Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
        Requirement Levels, "RFC 2119, Harvard University, March 1997.
    
    [rescodes]
        Mike Just, K. Leclair, Jim Sermersheim, Mark smith, "LDAPv3
        Result Codes: Definitions and Appropriate Use",

Haripriya S. INTERNET-DRAFT                                          10

                      EntrySelection control for
       LDAP modify and delete on multiple entries, August 2000

        INTERNET-DRAFT, April 2000, <URL:http://
        www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-just-ldapv3-rescodes-02.txt>
    
    [ldif]
        Gordon Good, "The LDAP Data Interchange Format (LDIF) -
        Technical Specification", Netscape Communications,
        INTERNET-DRAFT, March 2000, <URL:http://
        www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-good-ldap-ldif-06.txt>
    
    [treedelete]
        M. P.  Armijo, "Tree Delete Control", Microsoft Corporation,
        INTERNET-DRAFT November 12, 1999, <URL:http://
        www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-armijo-ldap-treedelete-02.txt>
        ( This document is now expired )
    
    [extpartresp] 

    R. Harrison, "Extended Partial Response Protocol Enhancement
    to LDAP v3", Novell Inc., INTERNET-DRAFT June 2000, <URL:http://
    www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rharrison-ldap-extpartresp-01.txt>
 
9. Acknowledgements
    
    I sincerely thank Kurt D. Zeilenga who gave such invaluable inputs
    which changed the whole approach of the document from its initial
    version.  I also thank K. K. Subramaniam, VithalPrasad Gaitonde,
    Dinakar Sitaram, and Girish Elchuri who reviewed this document and
    gave their valuable suggestions, and the Novell Standards Board
    for their review.
    
10. Address
    
    Haripriya S.
    Novell Inc.
    49/1, 49/3, Garvebhavi Palya,
    7th Mile, Hosur Road,
    Bangalore - 560068
    India
    Phone: +91-80-5721858 Extn:2121
    Email: sharipriya@novell.com

This internet draft expires on 25 February 2001




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Subject: Re: Matching Rules for Constructed Syntaxes
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Steven

Being an editor of a current ID on LDAP schema and matching rules 
for PKIX, I find your approach very appealing. Having to write 
potentially dozens of new matching rules for certs and CRLs, that 
all do very similar things, a generic way of describing this has 
significant benefits from a documentation point of view. I am 
certainly prepared to use your work in the PKIX schema ID, if there 
is general approval for it to procede.

I also think the work should be part of LDAPExt as we need this 
type of matching rule to be core to LDAP implementations, and not 
application specific. In this way many applications can benefit from 
the technology provided by a central LDAP server.

David

***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

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Please update "Discovering LDAP Services with DNS" with this version
draft-ietf-ldapext-locate-04.txt

LDAPEXT:  Here is the updated version of the Locate draft. =20

Changes: Updated Section 3 based on comments. =20
Updated Security section.
Fixed error in Section 4 that incorrectly referred to Section 2

 <<draft-ietf-ldapext-locate-04.txt>>=20

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Please update &quot;Discovering LDAP =
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draft-ietf-ldapext-locate-04.txt</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">LDAPEXT:&nbsp; Here is the updated =
version of the Locate draft.&nbsp; </FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Changes: Updated Section 3 based =
on comments.&nbsp; </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Updated Security section.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Fixed error in Section 4 that =
incorrectly referred to Section 2</FONT>
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IDIwMDENCg0KDQoNCg==

------_=_NextPart_001_01C01140.F4D88BDC--



From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 28 20:02:09 2000
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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:00:05 -0700 (PDT)
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From: investments2000@angelfire.com
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Subject:  3-1 Return on Investment
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Hello, I have a program that pays 3-1 in just 3 months, plus 50% payments for referrals! I 
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interested in signing up please send me an e-mail to investments2000@angelfire.com 
and you MUST put " OK " in the subject matter or you will not get a response. Thank you!




From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 28 21:55:39 2000
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To: Stockwinner@aol.com
From: <yvtf@msn.com>
Subject: Stock Pick of the Week
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Date: 28 Aug 2000 18:51:41 -0700
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>>> STOCK PICK OF THE WEEK <<<

For the week beginning Monday, 08-28-2000

Investment Snapshot - VOPT (US) voIP Telecom
http://www.iexchange.com/ii/sl?sidii=5zhn5a29jq.s22av&s=131077&ixname=TAB6&ixvalue=yes&tsym=vopt
Target Price: $8.00  Current Price: $2.84

Take a close look at this stock, it's rising fast!

The recent news made this stock jump 180% in two days and it is climbing





From list@netscape.com  Mon Aug 28 23:09:29 2000
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Reply-To: <steven.legg@adacel.com.au>
From: "Steven Legg" <steven.legg@adacel.com.au>
To: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <ietf-pkix@imc.org>,
        <osidirectory@az05.bull.com>
Subject: RE: Matching Rules for Constructed Syntaxes
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:05:41 +1000
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Following some private email discussions with Tom Gindin I've decided
on some changes to the way asn1Match, componentMatch and
componentFilterMatch compare strings.

The asn1Match rule isn't exactly a shorthand way of writing an "and"
component filter because it doesn't compare character strings like
any of the existing string matching rules. It compares two strings
letter for letter, so letter case and all spaces are significant,
but it also returns false if two compared DirectoryStrings use different
alternatives in the DirectoryString CHOICE (which will only be
visible in X.500). I think asn1Match will be more useful if it
behaves just like caseIgnoreMatch when it is matching string type
components. The assumed behaviour could be some other string matching
rule, like caseExactMatch, or a purposely defined new string
matching rule. In the absence of any request for an alternative I'll
stick with caseIgnoreMatch. 

This change would make asn1Match somewhat different from its current
implementation in the Adacel directory so I propose instead to define
a new matching rule, which I'll call allComponentsMatch (unless someone
has a better idea), with a new OID.

The DirectoryString type is actually a CHOICE type (i.e. a constructed
syntax) but I was deliberately treating it like a primitive string type
in the examples of componentMatch and componentFilterMatch. Since it is
fairly common practice to replace a specific ASN.1 string type that
turns out to be too restrictive (e.g. PrintableString) with a CHOICE
between the previous string type and a more general string type
(e.g. UTF8String) I propose generalizing the special treatment for
DirectoryString to any CHOICE of string types. Conceptually a string
"component" has an ASN.1 type which is one of the primitive string types
(e.g. PrintableString, IA5String) or a CHOICE of those string types
(e.g. DirectoryString, PKCS9String). Nested CHOICEs would be permitted
also.

Regardless of the string type, I only intend that the string encoding
of ComponentAssertion will use UTF8. The CHOICE construct would not
normally be evident in the string encoding, though it would still be
relevant to the BER encoding. To aid in the conversion between string
encoding and BER encoding I'll provide some simple rules for deciding
which alternative in a CHOICE of strings to assume, and a syntax for
overriding the default rules to force a particular alternative.

Regards,
Steven



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 29 18:43:01 2000
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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:36:26 -0700
From: sanjay jain <sanjay.jain@software.com>
Organization: Software.Com
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Subject: syntax problem in filter attribute value ..
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Is it an error when an attribute value in the filter
<br>does not satisfy the syntax rules for the attribute ?
<br>If yes, what is the error code ?&nbsp; Couldn't find the relevant
<br>info in the 'rescodes' draft..
<p>thanks
<br>sanjay</html>



From list@netscape.com  Tue Aug 29 18:57:06 2000
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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:54:24 -0700
To: sanjay jain <sanjay.jain@software.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: substring filters using DN attributes ?
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At 03:25 PM 8/29/00 -0700, sanjay jain wrote:
>> The filter (member=*dc=org1,dc=com) is Undefined.  The operation
>> may complete successful with no entries being returned.
>
>Kurt
>   How would you interpret 5.2.2.1.3 section of the above draft ?

I interpret the I-D as having a number of errors as previously
noted on this list.  In this case, I believe the I-D conflicts
with RFC 2251, 4.5.1.

        Kurt



From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 30 06:36:29 2000
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Message-ID: <01C01265.E12EA020.era.als@get2net.dk>
From: Erik Andersen <era.als@get2net.dk>
To: "osidirectory@az05.bull.com" <osidirectory@az05.bull.com>,
        "Ldapext (E-mail)" <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>
Subject: RE: Matching Rules for Constructed Syntaxes
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:31:17 +0200
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Hi David and others,

I do not see why we should not include it in our first draft for the LDAP 
alignment works. David, hope to see you in Orlando. Your presence would be 
very useful.

Erik Andersen
Mobile: +45 20 97 14 90
E-mail;  era.als@get2net.dk
Internet: http://www.cenorm.be/isss/Workshop/DIR/Default.htm


-----Original Message-----
From:	David Chadwick [SMTP:d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk]
Sent:	Tuesday, August 29, 2000 5:44 PM
To:	osidirectory@az05.bull.com
Subject:	Re: Matching Rules for Constructed Syntaxes

Folks

I think there is considerable merit in what Steven is suggesting, and
I wonder how we can make it part of our X.500 work - maybe as
part of the LDAP alignment work? Or should it be a separate topic?

David

***************************************************

David Chadwick
IS Institute, University of Salford, Salford M5 4WT
Tel +44 161 295 5351  Fax +44 161 745 8169
Mobile +44 790 167 0359
Email D.W.Chadwick@salford.ac.uk
Home Page  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/chadwick.htm
Understanding X.500  http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/X500.htm
X.500/LDAP Seminars http://www.salford.ac.uk/its024/seminars.htm
Entrust key validation string MLJ9-DU5T-HV8J

***************************************************



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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the LDAP Extension Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Discovering LDAP Services with DNS
	Author(s)	: M. Armijo, L. Esibov, P. Leach, R. Morgan
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ldapext-locate-04.txt
	Pages		: 4
	Date		: 29-Aug-00
	
A Lightweight Directory Access Protocol (LDAP) request must be
directed to an appropriate server for processing.  This document
specifies a method for discovering such servers using information in
the Domain Name System.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ldapext-locate-04.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-ldapext-locate-04.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


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Send a message to:
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In the body type:
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	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
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	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.
		
		
Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
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--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	access-type="mail-server";
	server="mailserv@ietf.org"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<20000829112123.I-D@ietf.org>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ldapext-locate-04.txt

--OtherAccess
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	name="draft-ietf-ldapext-locate-04.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org";
	access-type="anon-ftp";
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From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 30 10:21:46 2000
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Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:19:34 -0700
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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ldapext-locate-04.txt
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This draft is pretty much ready to be progressed. However,
I believe the removal of CLDAP is incomplete.  In section
4,
	<Proto> is a protocol that can be either "udp" or "tcp"

Per the current I-D, both "udp" or "tcp" are being used to
locate LDAP as defined by RFC 2251.  However, RFC 2251 defines
no mapping for LDAP over UDP.   The authors have (appropriately,
IMO) stricken all mention of CLDAP so this specification can
be progressed to Draft Standard without waiting on CLDAP
maturity).  As such, I believe '"udp" or' should likewise
be stricken or the above phrase changed to:
	<Proto> is "tcp".

If someone defines a mapping of LDAP over other protocols
(such as "rdp"), the specification can be updated.  If
someone wants to locate CLDAP using DNS SRV records, they
should submit an I-D which provides a specification for
such.  This I-D, in it's current form, does not (and IMO
shouldn't).

Kurt



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From: "RL 'Bob' Morgan" <rlmorgan@washington.edu>
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To: Erik Andersen <era.als@get2net.dk>
cc: David Chadwick <d.w.chadwick@salford.ac.uk>,
        "osidirectory@az05.bull.com" <osidirectory@az05.bull.com>,
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On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Erik Andersen wrote:

> I do not see why we should not include it in our first draft for the LDAP 
> alignment works. David, hope to see you in Orlando. Your presence would be 
> very useful.

Can someone from the X.500 community describe and/or offer a pointer to
the "LDAP alignment" activity?  I think everyone involved with LDAP is
pleased that this is happening, but especially in the context of the
ldapbis work, one of whose items will be (I think) clarifying LDAP's
dependencies on X.500, it does raise questions of who is aligning with
whom.

Thanks,

 - RL "Bob"




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To: "'RL 'Bob' Morgan'" <rlmorgan@washington.edu>
Cc: "osidirectory@az05.bull.com" <osidirectory@az05.bull.com>,
        IETF ldapext WG <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>,
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Subject: X.500 and LDAP alignment
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:05:58 +0200
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Hi Bob,

The new work item on LDAP is very loosely defined (to achieve maximum alignment 
with LDAP) not to constrain the work. As it is an X.500 work item, we can only 
specify alignment in one direction. We see several ideas in the LDAP work that 
could be useful to incorporate. However, we see alignment in both directions as 
very important. As the LDAP protocol is the most used X.500 access protocol, 
extension to LDAP to support most of the features below is very desirable.

Within X.500, we have or are in the progress of adding a large number of new 
features. The following are completed and stable items:

a)  Facilities to control and constrain the service given to different user 
groups using a concept called search-rules.

b)  Families of entries, for which David Chadwick has issue an Internet draft. 
We would be very interested in seeing that progressed.

c)  Hierarchical groups, which allow hierarchies to be established independent 
of the DIT hierarchy.

d)  Mapping-based matching with emphasis on geographical (zonal) matching which 
allows mapping between the real world as seen by users and the model of the 
world as it is reflected in a directory.

e)  Matching rule substitution allowing a great flexibility in matching to 
ensure more successful searches

f)  Much user related diagnostic information to be returned to users to guide 
in making a new, more successful search

Of new items, the most important is probably "Related Entries in the 
Directory". This is a way to access in one request information from different 
directories having different naming spaces (or disjoint naming spaces). This is 
a very significant work item that in many respects will align X.500 to the real 
world instead of trying the reverse. It will also bring X.500 closer to the 
LDAP philosophy. Personally, I see it as a tool to provide interworking between 
LDAP and X.500 servers (and possibly other types of directories).

Hope that helps.

Erik Andersen
Mobile: +45 20 97 14 90
E-mail;  era.als@get2net.dk
Internet: http://www.cenorm.be/isss/Workshop/DIR/Default.htm


-----Original Message-----
From:	RL 'Bob' Morgan [SMTP:rlmorgan@washington.edu]
Sent:	30. august 2000 16:57
To:	Erik Andersen
Cc:	David Chadwick; osidirectory@az05.bull.com; IETF ldapext WG; IETF ldapbis 
WG
Subject:	RE: Matching Rules for Constructed Syntaxes


On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Erik Andersen wrote:

> I do not see why we should not include it in our first draft for the LDAP
> alignment works. David, hope to see you in Orlando. Your presence would be
> very useful.

Can someone from the X.500 community describe and/or offer a pointer to
the "LDAP alignment" activity?  I think everyone involved with LDAP is
pleased that this is happening, but especially in the context of the
ldapbis work, one of whose items will be (I think) clarifying LDAP's
dependencies on X.500, it does raise questions of who is aligning with
whom.

Thanks,

 - RL "Bob"





From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 30 13:54:51 2000
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From list@netscape.com  Wed Aug 30 19:47:53 2000
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Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 19:44:08 -0400
From: "Heimberg, Jim" <Jim.Heimberg@GD-CS.COM>
Subject: RE: Matching Rules for Constructed Syntaxes
To: "'steven.legg@adacel.com.au'" <steven.legg@adacel.com.au>,
        ietf-ldapext@netscape.com, ietf-pkix@imc.org,
        osidirectory@az05.bull.com
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Please change my address to jimhei@cablespeed.com.  Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Legg [mailto:steven.legg@adacel.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 12:06 AM
To: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com; ietf-pkix@imc.org;
osidirectory@az05.bull.com
Subject: RE: Matching Rules for Constructed Syntaxes



Following some private email discussions with Tom Gindin I've decided
on some changes to the way asn1Match, componentMatch and
componentFilterMatch compare strings.

The asn1Match rule isn't exactly a shorthand way of writing an "and"
component filter because it doesn't compare character strings like
any of the existing string matching rules. It compares two strings
letter for letter, so letter case and all spaces are significant,
but it also returns false if two compared DirectoryStrings use different
alternatives in the DirectoryString CHOICE (which will only be
visible in X.500). I think asn1Match will be more useful if it
behaves just like caseIgnoreMatch when it is matching string type
components. The assumed behaviour could be some other string matching
rule, like caseExactMatch, or a purposely defined new string
matching rule. In the absence of any request for an alternative I'll
stick with caseIgnoreMatch. 

This change would make asn1Match somewhat different from its current
implementation in the Adacel directory so I propose instead to define
a new matching rule, which I'll call allComponentsMatch (unless someone
has a better idea), with a new OID.

The DirectoryString type is actually a CHOICE type (i.e. a constructed
syntax) but I was deliberately treating it like a primitive string type
in the examples of componentMatch and componentFilterMatch. Since it is
fairly common practice to replace a specific ASN.1 string type that
turns out to be too restrictive (e.g. PrintableString) with a CHOICE
between the previous string type and a more general string type
(e.g. UTF8String) I propose generalizing the special treatment for
DirectoryString to any CHOICE of string types. Conceptually a string
"component" has an ASN.1 type which is one of the primitive string types
(e.g. PrintableString, IA5String) or a CHOICE of those string types
(e.g. DirectoryString, PKCS9String). Nested CHOICEs would be permitted
also.

Regardless of the string type, I only intend that the string encoding
of ComponentAssertion will use UTF8. The CHOICE construct would not
normally be evident in the string encoding, though it would still be
relevant to the BER encoding. To aid in the conversion between string
encoding and BER encoding I'll provide some simple rules for deciding
which alternative in a CHOICE of strings to assume, and a syntax for
overriding the default rules to force a particular alternative.

Regards,
Steven



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From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 31 13:09:21 2000
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Section 4.7.11 LDAPConstraints.setTimeLimit

LDAP Constraints applies to all operations, not just search operations.

The first sentence should probably be changed from:

     Sets the maximum number of milliseconds to wait for any operation
     under these search constraints.

To something like:

     Sets the maximum number of milliseconds the client waits for any =
operation
     under these constraints.

Section 4.7.5 LDAPConstraints.getReferrals

    Change nor to or

    Specifies whether nor not ...

-Steve

--=_FDA56792.66076B87
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Section 4.7.11 LDAPConstraints.setTimeLimit</FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>LDAP Constraints applies to all operations, not just =
search=20
operations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>The first sentence should probably be changed=20
from:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sets the maximum number of milliseconds to =
wait=20
for any operation<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; under these search=20
constraints.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>To something like:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sets the maximum number of milliseconds =
the=20
client&nbsp;waits for any operation<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; under these=20
constraints.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Section 4.7.5 LDAPConstraints.getReferrals</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Change nor to or</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Specifies whether nor not ...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>-Steve</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_FDA56792.66076B87--



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To: <rweltman@netscape.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Async API (Was: Minor Typos in java-api-11)
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
In-Reply-To: <s9ae3c22.009@prv-mail20.provo.novell.com>
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BTW, I thought someone was going to request removal the old
Java Async I-D from the repository...



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 31 13:57:42 2000
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Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:54:39 -0600
From: "Steve Sonntag" <VTAG@novell.com>
To: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <rweltman@netscape.com>,
        "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>
Cc: "Alan Clark" <ACLARK@novell.com>, "Steven Merrill" <SMERRILL@novell.com>
Subject: LDAPSetoption java-api-11
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Section 4.39.13 LDAPV2.setOption

This method of the LDAPV2 interface seems a little strange.

 1) It probably does not belong under the interface LDAPV2,
    but instead under LDAPConnection. This would allow it
    to support setting client & server controls which it
    cannot do under LDAPV2.  This functionality is currently
    missing in the method.
   =20
    Setting STRING_FORMAT is also an LDAPV3 setting, as UTF-8
    is only meaningful under LDAPV3.

 2) STRING_FORMAT is set only by the setOption method.
    There should be a way to set or get STRING_FORMAT with
    LDAPSearchConstraints methods.

 3) setOption operates only on the LDAPSearchConstraints object
    that is associated with an LDAPConnection object.  Yet
    there may also be an LDAPConstraints object associated
    with the LDAPConnection object.  It may or may not be
    the same as the LDAPSearchConstraints object.  Should
    there be a setOption kind of method that operates on
    the LDAPConstraints object associated with a connection?

 4) All functionality of SetOption can be performed by code
    that references the LDAPSearchConstraints object of a
    connection - i.e. LDAPConnection.getSearchConstraints.method().

This method is superfluous and problematic.=20
IMO, it is not needed and should be eliminated from the API.

-Steve

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Section 4.39.13 LDAPV2.setOption</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This method of the LDAPV2 interface&nbsp;seems a little strange.</DIV>=

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;1) It probably does not belong under the interface=20
LDAPV2,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; but instead under LDAPConnection. This would =
allow=20
it<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to support setting client &amp; server controls =
which=20
it<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; cannot do under LDAPV2.&nbsp; This functionality =
is=20
currently<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; missing in the=20
method.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Setting =
STRING_FORMAT=20
is also an LDAPV3 setting, as UTF-8</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is only meaningful under LDAPV3.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;2) STRING_FORMAT is set only by the setOption=20
method.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There should be a way to set or get =
STRING_FORMAT=20
with<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LDAPSearchConstraints methods.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;3) setOption operates only on the LDAPSearchConstraints=20
object<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that is associated with an LDAPConnection=20
object.&nbsp; Yet<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; there may also be an LDAPConstraint=
s=20
object associated<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with the LDAPConnection object.&nbs=
p; It=20
may or may not be<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the same as the LDAPSearchConstrain=
ts=20
object.&nbsp; Should<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; there be a setOption kind of =
method=20
that operates on<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the LDAPConstraints object =
associated=20
with a connection?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;4) All functionality of SetOption can be performed by=20
code<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that references the LDAPSearchConstraints =
object of=20
a<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; connection - i.e.=20
LDAPConnection.getSearchConstraints.method().</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This method is superfluous and problematic. <BR>IMO, it is not needed =
and=20
should be eliminated from the API.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>-Steve<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_99C103FD.5F3E52A1--



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 31 14:15:30 2000
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Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:13:11 -0700
To: "Steve Sonntag" <VTAG@novell.com>
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: LDAPSetoption java-api-11
Cc: <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>, <rweltman@netscape.com>,
        "Jim Sermersheim" <JIMSE@novell.com>, "Alan Clark" <ACLARK@novell.com>,
        "Steven Merrill" <SMERRILL@novell.com>
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At 11:54 AM 8/31/00 -0600, Steve Sonntag wrote:
>Section 4.39.13 LDAPV2.setOption
> 
>This method of the LDAPV2 interface seems a little strange.
> 
> 1) It probably does not belong under the interface LDAPV2,
>    but instead under LDAPConnection. This would allow it
>    to support setting client & server controls which it
>    cannot do under LDAPV2.  This functionality is currently
>    missing in the method.
>    
>    Setting STRING_FORMAT is also an LDAPV3 setting, as UTF-8
>    is only meaningful under LDAPV3.

Given charset and other issues surrounding APIs
designed to support both LDAPv2 and LDAPv3 and
the what I believe is general consensus to
obsolete LDAPv2, I suggest that all mention
and support for LDAPv2 be axed from LDAPext
work items.

        Kurt



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 31 15:35:17 2000
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From: "FEDERICO B. ISON, JR." <fedson@pempe.net>
Subject: Simply Amazing - 95% Pay-Out!
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:34:34 -0700
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--------------------------------------------------------------

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    a.. FREE TO JOIN - you don't have to pay anything to join=20
    b.. EASY TO PROMOTE - 40 pages of information to get you
    started (pre written ads etc.), Also it's easy to promote=20
    because it's FREE to JOIN.=20
    c.. HUGE POTENTIAL - Earn the money you so desire for a long time at =
your own pace, your own time, while you enjoy the things you loved with =
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it's FREE to join but after 30 days you have to decide if you would like =
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I'm sure you'll be very happy to pay your monthly fee of $90, remain in =
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world know about it.

For more information, simply reply to this email with "PROJECT 21=20
INFO" as text.


Regards,


Federico B. Ison, Jr.

PS. I am willing to show you how to send your business or ads to=20
       "ONE MILLION" safe, opt-in, 100% spam-free e-mails daily using=20
       100% legal mailing system or your money back.        =20

 =
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" =
size=3D3>STOP, LOOK &amp;=20
LISTEN!</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><STRONG>&nbsp;The Only Company That Pays 95%=20
Commission!</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>A must to do; The Potential is Incredible; Highly=20
Recommended!</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><STRONG></STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------</FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG><STRONG>Do your own math here; </STRONG></DIV>
<UL>
    <LI><STRONG>50%</STRONG> Fast-Start on all referrals=20
    <LI><STRONG>20%</STRONG> Fast-Start on all 2nd level referrals=20
    <LI><STRONG>25%</STRONG> to the 2 x 25 matrix up to the 25 levels =
deep.=20
</LI></UL>
<DIV>For full details, simply reply with &quot;please forward 95% =
pay-out&quot;=20
as text.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>
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<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT face=3D"" size=3D4>MAKE $100 - $300 =
DAILY PART-TIME=20
WORK AT HOME!</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT face=3D"" =
size=3D4></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"" size=3D3>Huge Potential - A Must To Do!</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>Ranking=3D 10 ; Risk=3D 0 ; Returns=3D INCREDIBLE; =
HIGHLY=20
RECOMMENDED</DIV>
<DIV=20
align=3Dcenter>-----------------------------------------------------&nbsp=
;<FONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>We are looking for an individual who wants to earn =
$100 - $300=20
daily part-time doing a simple computer work at home. We will train and =
guide=20
them along the way and we will help them get started=20
immediately.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><STRONG>QUALIFICATIONS:</STRONG> Must be willing to =
learn,=20
willing to work atleast one hour a day online, ambitious and with a =
desire to be=20
successful.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"" size=3D3>If you believe you are qualified and wants =
to get=20
started immediately, simply reply to this e-mail with &quot;HELP ME GET=20
STARTED&quot; as text.&nbsp;</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>&nbsp;<FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>=20
*************************************************************************=
*************************</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PROJECT 21 - =
</STRONG><STRONG>NO=20
START COST - HUGE POTENTIAL - </STRONG></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><STRONG>A MUST </STRONG><STRONG>TO=20
READ&quot;</STRONG><STRONG><BR></STRONG>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>Ranking=3D=20
10 ; Risk=3D 0 ; Returns=3D INCREDIBLE; HIGHLY RECOMMENDED=20
<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3>This is huge. You can earn =
$2,000 per=20
week part-time or $5,000 per week full-time using your computer at home. =
You=20
only need 1 hour a day of easy and simple work. And the best part of it =
is...=20
it's FREE to join! </FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>HERE IS WHAT I GOT:<BR><BR></DIV>
<UL>
    <LI>FREE TO JOIN - you don't have to pay anything to join=20
    <LI>EASY TO PROMOTE - 40 pages of information to get you<BR>started =
(pre=20
    written ads etc.), Also it's easy to promote <BR>because it's FREE =
to JOIN.=20
    <LI>HUGE POTENTIAL - Earn the money you so desire for a long time at =
your=20
    own pace, your own time, while you enjoy the things you loved with =
your=20
    family. This is proven. You will be overwhelmed by the result that =
you will=20
    get.=20
    <LI>YOU PAY ONLY WHEN YOU ARE SURE YOU&quot;LL EARN - Like I told =
you it's=20
    FREE to join but after 30 days you have to decide if you would like =
to=20
    continue your membership. At that point if you have enough clients =
I'm sure=20
    you'll be very happy to pay your monthly fee of $90, remain in the =
program=20
    and .... MAKE MONEY......</LI></UL>
<DIV>I've been promoting this program for a very short period of<BR>time =
and so=20
far I have 47 clients which means that I have <BR>residual monthly =
income of=20
$4300. And all this after 20-30 <BR>hours of promotion with 0 (ZERO) =
dollars=20
investment.<BR><BR>This is the type of program that you want to scream =
about.=20
Let the whole world know about it.<BR><BR>For more information, simply =
reply to=20
this email with &quot;PROJECT 21 </DIV>
<DIV>INFO&quot; as text.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Federico B. Ison, Jr.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>PS. I am willing to show you how to send your business or ads to =
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;ONE MILLION&quot; safe, =
opt-in,=20
100% spam-free e-mails daily using </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 100% legal mailing system or =
your=20
money back.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;<FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
--------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DI=
V>
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From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 31 16:30:09 2000
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To: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
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        Jim Sermersheim <JIMSE@novell.com>, Alan Clark <ACLARK@novell.com>,
        Steven Merrill <SMERRILL@novell.com>
Subject: Re: LDAPv, previously LDAPSetoption java-api-11
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"Kurt D. Zeilenga" wrote:

> At 11:54 AM 8/31/00 -0600, Steve Sonntag wrote:
> >Section 4.39.13 LDAPV2.setOption
> >
> >This method of the LDAPV2 interface seems a little strange.
> >
> > 1) It probably does not belong under the interface LDAPV2,
> >    but instead under LDAPConnection. This would allow it
> >    to support setting client & server controls which it
> >    cannot do under LDAPV2.  This functionality is currently
> >    missing in the method.
> >
> >    Setting STRING_FORMAT is also an LDAPV3 setting, as UTF-8
> >    is only meaningful under LDAPV3.
>
> Given charset and other issues surrounding APIs
> designed to support both LDAPv2 and LDAPv3 and
> the what I believe is general consensus to
> obsolete LDAPv2, I suggest that all mention
> and support for LDAPv2 be axed from LDAPext
> work items.
>
>         Kurt

If references to LDAPv2 are not removed from the draft,
then the methods that were previously in LDAPAsynchronous
Connection which are now in LDAPConnection - these methods
should also be in one of the LDAPV2 or LDAPV3 interfaces
to identify where they can be used.

-Steve


--
------------------------
Steve Sonntag
Novell Directory Services
+1 801 861 7097




From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 31 17:38:34 2000
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Subject: Re: Async API (Was: Minor Typos in java-api-11)
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  I'll try.

Rob


"Kurt D. Zeilenga" wrote:

> BTW, I thought someone was going to request removal the old
> Java Async I-D from the repository...



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Does God Love You?

Q. What kind of a question is that? Anyone who can read sees signs, tracts, 
booklets and bumper stickers saying, "God Loves You." Isn't that true?
A. It's true that God offers His love to the whole world, as we read in one of the most 
quoted verses in the Bible:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever 
believeth in Him shall not perish, but have ever lasting life." John 3:16 
However, God's love is qualified, as we read in the Bible:
"The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the Lord; but He loveth him that 
followeth after righteousness." Proverb 15:9
"For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous, but the way of the ungodly shall 
perish." Psalms 1:6 
Q. But I am not wicked. I am a decent moral person. Surely the good I have done 
in my life far outweighs whatever bad I have done. How can these verses apply 
to me?
A. By God's standards of righteousness even the most moral person is looked upon by 
God as a desperate sinner on his way to Hell. The Bible teaches that no one good 
enough in himself to go to Heaven. On the contrary we are all sinners and are guilty 
before God.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none that 
understand, there is none that seeketh after God." Romans 3:10,11.
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know 
it?" Jeremiah 17:9 
Q. If I am such a wicked person in God's sight what will God do to me?
A. The Bible teaches that at the end of the world all the wicked will come under eternal 
punishment in a place called Hell.
"For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall 
consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundation of the 
mountain. I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. 
They shall be burnt with hunger and devoured with burning heat and with bitter 
destruction." Deuteronomy 32:22-24 
Q. Oh, come on now! Hell isn't real, is it? Surely things aren't that bad.
A. Indeed, Hell is very real, and "things are that bad" for the individual who does not know 
the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour. The Bible makes many references to Hell, indicating it 
is both eternal, and consists of perpetual suffering.
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of 
fire." Revelation 20:15
"So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth and sever the 
wicked from among the just and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. Matthew 
13:49-50
"... when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in 
flaming fire taking vengence on them that know not God, and that obey not the 
gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting 
destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power." II 
Thessalonians 1:7-9 
Q. That's terrible! Why would God create a Hell?
A. Hell is terrible, and it exists because God created man to be accountable to God for 
his actions. His perfect justice demands payment for sin.
"For the wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23
"For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, that everyone may 
receive the things done in his body, whether it be good or bad." II Corinthians 
5:10
"But I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give 
account thereof in the day of judgement." Matthew 12:36 
Q. Does that mean that at the end of the world everyone will be brought to life 
again to be judged and then be sent to Hell?
A. Indeed this is so - that is, unless we can find someone to be our substitute in bearing 
the punishment of eternal damnation for our sins. That someone is God Himself, Who 
came to earth to bear the wrath of God for all who believe in Him.
"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; 
and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53.6
"...He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities..." 
Isaiah 53.5
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died 
for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose 
again the third day according to the scriptures." I Corinthians 15:3,4
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin that we might be made 
the righteousness of God in him." II Corinthians 5:21 
Q. Are you saying that, if I trust in Christ as my substitute who was already 
punished for my sins, then I will not have to worry about Hell anymore?
A. Yes, this is so! If I have believed in Christ as my Savior, then it is as if I have already 
stood before the judgement throne of God. Christ as my substitute has already paid for 
my sins.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that 
sent me, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is 
passed from death into life." John 5:24 
Q. But what does it mean to believe on Him? If I agree with all that the Bible says 
about Christ as Savior, then am I saved from going to Hell?
A. Believing on Christ means a whole lot more than agreeing in our minds with truths of 
the Bible. It means that we hang our whole lives on Him. It means that we entrust every 
part of our lives to the truths of the Bible. It means that we turn away from our sins and 
serve Christ as our Lord.
"No man can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, 
or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and 
mammon." Matthew 6:24
"Repent ye therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out..." Acts 
3:19 
Q. Are you saying that there is no other way to escape Hell except through 
Jesus? What about all the other religions? Will their followers also go to Hell?
A. Yes, indeed. We cannot escape the fact that God holds us accountable for our sins. 
God demands that we pay for our sins. Other religions cannot provide a substitute for the 
sins of their followers. Christ is the only one who is available to bear our guilt.
"Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven 
given among men whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, 
but by me." John 14:6
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to 
cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I John 1:9 
Q. Now I am desperate. I don't want to go to Hell. What can I do?
A. You must remember that God is the only one who can help you. You must throw 
yourself altogether on the mercies of God. As you see your hopeless condition as a 
sinner, cry out to God that He will save you.
"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto 
heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me, a sinner." 
Luke 18:13
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus 
Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." Acts 16:30, 31
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 
10:13 
Q. But how can I believe on Christ if I know so little about Him?
A. Wonderfully God not only saved us through the Lord Jesus, but also gives us the faith 
to believe on Him. You can pray to God that He will give you faith in Jesus Christ as Your 
Savior.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift 
of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8 
God works particularly through the Bible to give us that faith. So, if you really mean 
business with God about your salvaiton, you should use every opportunity to hear and 
study the Bible, which is the only Word of God.
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." Romans 
10:17 
Q. Does this mean that I have to surrender everything to God?
A. Yes. God wants us to come to Him in total humility, acknowledging our sinfulness and 
our helplessness, trusting totally in Him.
"Saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a 
contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. Isaiah 66:2b 
Because we are sinners we love our sins. Therefore we must begin to pray to God for an 
intense hatred for our sins. And if we sincerely desire salvation, we will also begin to turn 
from our sins as God strengthens us. We know that it is our sins that are sending us to 
Hell.
"Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in 
turning away every one of you from his iniquities." Acts 3:26 
Q. I don't know if I am ready to do that. I need some time to think about it.
A. You might not have much time. For one thing, you might not live to see tomorrow. 
What God said to the man who trusted in the things of this world, He could say to you, 
"Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee." Luke 12:20
Also, the Bible says that the end of the world is coming soon.
The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice 
of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. That day is a day 
of wrath. Zephaniah 1:1415a 
Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. James 
5:8
Q. Is the day of wrath and judgment really near? Can we know how close to the 
end of the world we might be?
A. Yes! It is near. God gives much information in the Bible which tells us that we are very 
near the end of the world.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. . . . And this gospel 
of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then 
shall the end come. Matthew 24:12, 14
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and 
wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 
24:24
Q. Besides being the time for Judgment Day, what else will happen at the end of 
the world?
A. Those who have trusted in Jesus as their Savior will be transformed into their glorious 
eternal bodies and will be with Christ forevermore.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the 
archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then 
we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the 
clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I 
Thessalonians 4:1617
Also, God will destroy the entire universe by fire and create new heavens and a new earth 
where Christ will reign with His believers forevermore.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall 
pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth 
also and the works that are therein shall be burned up . . . Nevertheless we, according to 
his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. II 
Peter 3:10, 13
Q. Why does God give us this warning?
A. Just as God warned ancient Nineveh that He was going to destroy that great city and 
He gave them forty days warning, the Bible also warns us that the end is very near.
And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty 
days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. Jonah 3:4
Q. What did the people of Nineveh do?
A. From the king on down, they humbled themselves before God, repented of their sins, 
and cried to God for mercy.
But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let 
them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who 
can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish 
not? Jonah 3:89
Q. Did God hear their prayers?
A. Yes. God saved a great many people of Nineveh.
Q. Can I still cry to God for mercy so that I will not come into judgment?
A. Yes. There is still time to become saved even though that time has become very short.
Seek ye the LORD while He may be found, call upon him while he is near. Isaiah 55:6
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be 
spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him. Hebrews 2:3
In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God. 
Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. 
Selah. Psalm 62:78
ARE YOU READY TO MEET GOD?




From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 31 20:55:07 2000
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From: david.a.cahlander@syntegra.com
Subject: LDAP and DIGEST-MD5 SASL - rfc2829
To: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:44:07 -0500 (CDT)
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Where do I store the credentials for DIGEST-MD5 in the directory?
(i.e. what attribute name)
Is READ access control needed for this attribute?

I'm trying to implement DIGEST-MD5 in an LDAP front-end to an X500 Directory.
I can't figure out what needs to be stored for credentials.  Thanks to
OpenLDAP, I have an ldapsearch that does the first part of the bind operation.
I have read RFC2829 and RFC2831 but find that I am at a loss to understand
how the very simple operation of authentication is performed.

From RFC2829 section 6.1:

   The server will respond with a bind response in which the resultCode
   is either success, or an error indication.

I have no idea how this operation is performed.  RFC2831 does not seem to
give a clue about this either.  As near as I can tell, the LDAP server
is required to either use a separate file for authentication information
that contains:

    username
    MD5hash( username-value ":" realm-value ":" passwd )

or store this information in the directory entry for the user that is
trying to authenticate.  It is not clear which attribute this information
needs to be stored in or what access control is needed for this attribute.

The catch-22 comes from what I see as a very serious security violation
with any of the methods that can be used to implement this operation.
Since the user needs only the MD5hash value to authenticate, The MD5hash
value can be considered as a plaintext password.  (3,9 in /rfc2831)
In order to do the DIGEST-MD5 calulation, this attribute needs to be able
to be read.  This means that any administrator that has access to the
directory can read this password hash and use it to authenticate to the
directory as that user.

In an X500 situation, this attribute must be able to be read between two
DSAs.  A snoop on the line will reveal this password hash, the same as
being able to read a cleartext password.  At least with simple authentication
the only thing passed between the DSAs is a compare operation.

I'm sure that I'm missing something very basic.  With all the complexity
of the DIGEST-MD5 operation, I can't believe that it is so simple to
break the authentication operation.

Kurt Zeilenga indicated that openldap allowed cyrus to handle the password and
the authentication.  This would seem to work fine for a single directory on
a single machine, but it does not work with replicated directories.

Can someone shed some likght on this problem?

Thanks
---
David Cahlander David.A.Cahlander@syntegra.com 651-415-3171



From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 31 20:55:47 2000
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Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:32:33 -0500
From: Mark Wahl <Mark.Wahl@sun.com>
Subject: new co-chair for LDAPEXT
Sender: wahl@austin.innosoft.com
To: ietf-ldapext@netscape.com
Cc: Roland Hedberg <roland@catalogix.se>
Cc: paf@swip.net, ned.freed@innosoft.com
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I'd like to introduce Roland Hedberg, who will be joining me as chair for
the IETF LDAPEXT Working Group.  

His email address is  Roland Hedberg <roland@catalogix.se>.

Please let us know if you have any questions.

Mark Wahl, Directory Architect, Service Provider/Infrastructure
Sun Microsystems, Inc. iPlanet Alliance



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From: "Slone, Skip" <skip.slone@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: X.500 and LDAP alignment
To: "'Erik Andersen'" <era.als@get2net.dk>,
        "'RL 'Bob' Morgan'" <rlmorgan@washington.edu>
Cc: osidirectory@az05.bull.com, IETF ldapext WG <ietf-ldapext@netscape.com>,
        IETF ldapbis WG <ietf-ldapbis@OpenLDAP.org>
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Bob,

I would just like to add a few thoughts to what Erik has mentioned. First, I
would like to reiterate that the new work item is very broadly stated and to
emphasize that the express purpose as stated in the NWI is to "improve
alignment and thereby co-existence and interoperability with LDAP."  

Exactly where we will go is yet to be determined, but from my perspective
some of the most important work we can do is to break down barriers to
interoperability.  One very important such barrier that is nearing
completion is the removal of X.500's dependency on OSI's upper layer
protocols. This is being done by providing a thin convergence layer (called
the Internet Directly Mapped protocol, or IDM) between the X.500 protocols
and TCP, thereby allowing implementers the choice of implementing X.500 on
an OSI stack or on TCP. (Note that this is different from RFC-1006 in that
1006 assumed that the OSI upper layers had already been implemented -- IDM
bypasses all that.) 

Additional barriers that can (and IMHO should) be removed are things like:
 - allowing LDAP operations to be chained within DSP
 - allowing an X.500 directory to return an LDAP referral
 - allowing distributed name resolution to proceed through the X.500, LDAP,
and DNS (most notably SRV record) namespaces without the user having to care
 - allowing subrequests resulting from the X.518 request decomposition
process to propagate to LDAP as well as X.500
 - allowing the X.500 results merging process to incorporate results from
LDAP as well as X.500 resident entries
 - allowing search-with-join operations to be performed on related entries,
regardless which type of directory holds the entries in question
 - allowing some form of interoperable X.500/LDAP replication

Obviously this is quite a list, none of which is formalized as of yet, but
I'm hoping it gives you a better sense of where this activity may be headed.
I'm also hoping it helps achieve the ever-elusive goal of interoperability! 

I would also like to say that I was pleased to read in your note that those
involved in LDAP are pleased that this work is getting underway. I think
both camps will benefit if we can establish good communication and minimize
duplication of effort.

Best regards,

 -- Skip Slone
    Lockheed Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Andersen [mailto:era.als@get2net.dk]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 12:06 PM
To: 'RL 'Bob' Morgan'
Cc: osidirectory@az05.bull.com; IETF ldapext WG; IETF ldapbis WG
Subject: X.500 and LDAP alignment


Hi Bob,

The new work item on LDAP is very loosely defined (to achieve maximum
alignment 
with LDAP) not to constrain the work. As it is an X.500 work item, we can
only 
specify alignment in one direction. We see several ideas in the LDAP work
that 
could be useful to incorporate. However, we see alignment in both directions
as 
very important. As the LDAP protocol is the most used X.500 access protocol,

extension to LDAP to support most of the features below is very desirable.

Within X.500, we have or are in the progress of adding a large number of new

features. The following are completed and stable items:

a)  Facilities to control and constrain the service given to different user 
groups using a concept called search-rules.

b)  Families of entries, for which David Chadwick has issue an Internet
draft. 
We would be very interested in seeing that progressed.

c)  Hierarchical groups, which allow hierarchies to be established
independent 
of the DIT hierarchy.

d)  Mapping-based matching with emphasis on geographical (zonal) matching
which 
allows mapping between the real world as seen by users and the model of the 
world as it is reflected in a directory.

e)  Matching rule substitution allowing a great flexibility in matching to 
ensure more successful searches

f)  Much user related diagnostic information to be returned to users to
guide 
in making a new, more successful search

Of new items, the most important is probably "Related Entries in the 
Directory". This is a way to access in one request information from
different 
directories having different naming spaces (or disjoint naming spaces). This
is 
a very significant work item that in many respects will align X.500 to the
real 
world instead of trying the reverse. It will also bring X.500 closer to the 
LDAP philosophy. Personally, I see it as a tool to provide interworking
between 
LDAP and X.500 servers (and possibly other types of directories).

Hope that helps.

Erik Andersen
Mobile: +45 20 97 14 90
E-mail;  era.als@get2net.dk
Internet: http://www.cenorm.be/isss/Workshop/DIR/Default.htm


-----Original Message-----
From:	RL 'Bob' Morgan [SMTP:rlmorgan@washington.edu]
Sent:	30. august 2000 16:57
To:	Erik Andersen
Cc:	David Chadwick; osidirectory@az05.bull.com; IETF ldapext WG; IETF
ldapbis 
WG
Subject:	RE: Matching Rules for Constructed Syntaxes


On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Erik Andersen wrote:

> I do not see why we should not include it in our first draft for the LDAP
> alignment works. David, hope to see you in Orlando. Your presence would be
> very useful.

Can someone from the X.500 community describe and/or offer a pointer to
the "LDAP alignment" activity?  I think everyone involved with LDAP is
pleased that this is happening, but especially in the context of the
ldapbis work, one of whose items will be (I think) clarifying LDAP's
dependencies on X.500, it does raise questions of who is aligning with
whom.

Thanks,

 - RL "Bob"




From list@netscape.com  Thu Aug 31 22:11:30 2000
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Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:20:56 -0700
To: david.a.cahlander@syntegra.com
From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@openldap.org>
Subject: Re: LDAP and DIGEST-MD5 SASL - rfc2829
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At 05:44 PM 8/31/00 -0500, david.a.cahlander@syntegra.com wrote:
>Where do I store the credentials for DIGEST-MD5 in the directory?
>(i.e. what attribute name)

userPassword can be used to store the clear text password.
authPassword (draft-zeilenga-ldap-authpasswd-03.txt, a work
in progress) can be used to the DIGEST-MD5 specific secret.

>Is READ access control needed for this attribute?

Server specific as there is no standard track, mandatory to
implement LDAP access control model (yet).  However,  both
X.500 and LDAP access control models, IIRC, have recommendations
in this area... the current user (anonymous) requires no special
permission to authenticate.  Some servers, such as OpenLDAP 2.x,
actually require "anonymous" to have "auth"entication/"auth"orization
access to the entry and the attributes used for authentication.

>I'm trying to implement DIGEST-MD5 in an LDAP front-end to an X500 Directory.
>I can't figure out what needs to be stored for credentials.

You either need to store the username + cleartext password or
the username + H({ username-value, ":", realm-value, ":", passwd })
(see RFC 2831, 3.9).

One approach is to store the 'username@REALM' in 'uid' and
the password in 'userPassword' (or the hash in 'authPassword').
Then when the server gets a request to authenthicate
'username@REALM' it can search for (uid=username@REALM) and,
if unique, press on with userPassword (or authPassword).

Another variant of this is use REALM to select the base DN
for the search used to find the user.

Another approach is to REGEX the username/REALM into a DN
of an entry containing the secret.

Another approach is to store externally 'username/REALM' +
secret pairs (this is OpenLDAP 2.0 current approach).

There are other approaches.  (Including misguided
ones which use the bind DN or authzId to locate the
entry associated with the username/REALM).

>I'm sure that I'm missing something very basic.

The intent of DIGEST-MD5 is to offer relatively strong
authentication services between the client and the server
at low cost.

>With all the complexity of the DIGEST-MD5 operation,

DIGEST-MD5 is actually quite simple in comparison to
alternatives (such as StartTLS+simple).  It protects
the client/server authentication from a number of
common attacks, offers simple privacy/integrity protection,
proxy support, etc..

The problems associated with distributing (or providing read
access to) DIGEST-MD5 secrets is comparable to distributing
(or providing read/compare to) simple password secrets.

DIGEST-MD5 was not designed to address wide-scale distribute
of authentication secrets issues.

>I can't believe that it is so simple to
>break the authentication operation.

It's not DIGEST-MD5 that is broken....  use the mechanism
within its design constraints.... pay attention to documented
security considerations... and if your use doesn't fit
the mechanism, choose a more appropriate mechanism.

>Kurt Zeilenga indicated that openldap allowed cyrus to handle the password and
>the authentication.  This would seem to work fine for a single directory on
>a single machine, but it does not work with replicated directories.

We took this approach in OpenLDAP 2.0 as it was far more important
for our server to share DIGEST-MD5 secrets with other SASL-enabled
application servers (SMTP, IMAP, POP, HTTP, etc.) then it
was to support distributed LDAP-only services using THIS mechanism.

I believe other mechanisms, such as GSSAPI (w/ Kerberos V), are
much better suited to distributed, multiple application services.

>Can someone shed some likght on this problem?



