From owner-um@snowshore.com Thu Oct 3 16:09:10 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g93K8oV17686 for um-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:08:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from eburger (keeper.snowshore.com [216.57.133.4]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g93K8nB17681 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Eric Burger" To: "IETF LEMONAID" Subject: [UM] FW: LEMONADE charter - take 2 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:08:49 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F1_01C26AF7.28DA0B80" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01C26AF7.28DA0B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Original from Glenn: Folks, Thanks for the comments. I think they improve the clarity of the charter. I have attached the revision. How does it look now? Ned/Patrik, Assuming there are no further comments, what is the next step for getting LEMONADE approved as a WG? Cheers, Glenn. ------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01C26AF7.28DA0B80 Content-Type: text/plain; name="Charter -Oct.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Charter -Oct.txt" License to Enhance Messaging Oriented Network Access for Diverse = Endpoints=20 (lemonade) Proposed Charter=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 Internet Unified Messaging brings together the body of work currently chartered in VPIM, IFAX, IMAPEXT, and other IETF working groups. It also relates with the work of other bodies dealing with messaging = services, such as wireless SMS, MMS, etc. The goal is to provide, over the Internet, a single infrastructure, = mailbox, and set of interfaces for a user to get, respond to, and manipulate all = of their messages from a collection of clients with varying capabilities, = no matter what the media or source is. Initial work, in the VPIM and FAX = WG for example, focused on the server and network interactions and has resulted in a rich base of Internet Mail standards to support unified messaging. Now that this work is stable in the industry, and with the proliferation of smaller and often mobile Internet devices, the issues = of client access to Internet Mail need to be addressed. Given the potentially broad scope of "unified messaging", this BOF will focus specifically on the following work items: 1. Enhance message retrieval protocols to satisfy the requirements=20 for low-latency playback. 2. Extend and/or profile message deposit and retrieval to satisfy the requirements for low-bit-rate or high-latency transports and limited-processing devices, such as mobile endpoints. 3. Create appropriate message notification protocols to satisfy=20 the need of reporting the status of different message contexts. 4. Extend message retrieval protocols to efficiently support limited-capability devices by offering data transformation services. 5. Extend and/or profile Internet mail services (such as SMTP)=20 for use in "unified messaging" environments. If it turns out=20 that native Internet mail services can not be used in such=20 environments, define, where appropriate, translation between=20 Internet Mail and other messaging systems to share a common=20 Internet mailbox service. The BOF is aware of several related activities in other groups: =20 - 3GPP TSG T WG2 SWG3 Messaging =20 - W3C Mulitmodal interaction Activity - Open Mobile Alliance - 3GPP2 TSG-P The goal is to coordinate efforts with at least these groups as is=20 required.=20 While there is obvious synergy, given the end-of-life of the VPIM and=20 FAX work groups and the similar membership, the BOF does not expect to coordinate with those groups. Milestones (document completion) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Nov 2002 - LEMONADE Requirements Dec 2002 - Notification protocol Mar 2003 - IMAP extensions for VM playback Apr 2003 - IMAP extensions for mobile devices Jun 2003 - Translation to other messaging systems Current drafts (grouped per milestone) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - draft-vaudreuil-um-issues-00.txt - draft-burger-um-reqts-00.txt - draft-wong-umcli-00.txt - draft-shapira-snap-04.txt =20 - draft-burger-imap-chanuse-00.txt - draft-nerenberg-imap-channel-01.txt - draft-nerenberg-imap-binary-02.txt =20 - draft-neystadt-imap-status-counters-00.txt - draft-shveidel-mediasize-00.txt - draft-vaudreuil-futuredelivery-00.txt ------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01C26AF7.28DA0B80-- - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Thu Oct 3 17:20:28 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g93LKPm19285 for um-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:20:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from ithilien.qualcomm.com (ithilien.qualcomm.com [129.46.51.59]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g93LKNB19280; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from neophyte.qualcomm.com (neophyte.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.149]) by ithilien.qualcomm.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/1.0) with ESMTP id g93LKLnS014911; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.46.75.222] (warhol.qualcomm.com [129.46.75.222]) by neophyte.qualcomm.com (8.12.3/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id g93LKGJK016994; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X v5.2a Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:20:36 -0700 To: , "IETF LEMONAID" From: Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [UM] FW: LEMONADE charter - take 2 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1178442453==_============" Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk --============_-1178442453==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I made a few minor fixups (typos and such), and also added a reference to 3GPP2 TSG-N (which is currently working on MMS). --============_-1178442453==_============ Content-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; name="Charter(rcg)-Oct.txt"; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Charter(rcg)-Oct.txt" ; modification-date="Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:19:05 -0700" ; x-mac-type="54455854" ; x-mac-creator="522A6368" License to Enhance Messaging Oriented Network Access for Diverse Endpoints (lemonade) Proposed Charter ================ Internet Unified Messaging brings together the body of work currently chartered in VPIM, IFAX, IMAPEXT, and other IETF working groups. It also relates with the work of other bodies dealing with messaging services, such as wireless SMS, MMS, etc. The goal is to provide, over the Internet, a single infrastructure, mailbox, and set of interfaces for a user to get, respond to, and manipulate all of his or her messages from a collection of clients with varying capabilities, no matter what the media or source is. Initial work, in the VPIM and FAX WG for example, focused on the server and network interactions and has resulted in a rich base of Internet Mail standards to support unified messaging. Now that this work is stable in the industry, and with the proliferation of smaller and often mobile Internet devices, the issues of client access to Internet Mail need to be addressed. Given the potentially broad scope of "unified messaging", this BOF will focus specifically on the following work items: 1. Enhance message retrieval protocols to satisfy the requirements for low-latency playback of multimedia content. 2. Extend and/or profile message submission and retrieval to satisfy the requirements for low-bit-rate or high-latency transports and limited-processing devices, such as mobile endpoints. 3. Create appropriate message notification protocols to satisfy the need for reporting the status of different message contexts. 4. Extend message retrieval protocols to efficiently support limited-capability devices by offering data transformation services. 5. Extend and/or profile Internet mail services (such as SMTP) for use in "unified messaging" environments. If it turns out that native Internet mail services can not be used in such environments, define, where appropriate, translation between Internet Mail and other messaging systems to share a common Internet mailbox service. The BOF is aware of several related activities in other groups: - 3GPP TSG T WG2 SWG3 Messaging - W3C Mulitmodal interaction Activity - Open Mobile Alliance - 3GPP2 TSG-P - 3GPP2 TSG-N The goal is to coordinate efforts with at least these groups as required. While there is obvious synergy, given the end-of-life of the VPIM and FAX work groups and the similar membership, the BOF does not expect to coordinate with those groups. Milestones (document completion) ========== Nov 2002 - LEMONADE Requirements Dec 2002 - Notification protocol Mar 2003 - IMAP extensions for VM playback Apr 2003 - IMAP extensions for mobile devices Jun 2003 - Translation to other messaging systems Current drafts (grouped per milestone) ============== - draft-vaudreuil-um-issues-00.txt - draft-burger-um-reqts-00.txt - draft-wong-umcli-00.txt - draft-shapira-snap-04.txt - draft-burger-imap-chanuse-00.txt - draft-nerenberg-imap-channel-01.txt - draft-nerenberg-imap-binary-02.txt - draft-neystadt-imap-status-counters-00.txt - draft-shveidel-mediasize-00.txt - draft-vaudreuil-futuredelivery-00.txt --============_-1178442453==_============-- - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Thu Oct 3 18:30:40 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g93MUcl21107 for um-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:30:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from elettra.trieste.it (SYNX02.elettra.trieste.it [140.105.2.2]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g93MUYB21101; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:30:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:30:05 +0100 To: Eric Burger cc: IETF LEMONAID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Claudio Allocchio Subject: Re: [UM] FW: LEMONADE charter - take 2 Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk OK for me !! Nice Job! regards, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claudio Allocchio G A R R Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it Project Technical Officer tel: +39 040 3758523 Italian Academic and G=Claudio; S=Allocchio; fax: +39 040 3758565 Research Network P=garr; A=garr; C=it; PGP Key: http://security.fi.infn.it/cgi-bin/spgpk.pl?KeyId=0C5C2A09 - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Mon Oct 14 08:03:09 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9EC32k14502 for um-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:03:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from eburger (keeper.snowshore.com [216.57.133.4]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g9EC2nB14494; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Eric Burger" To: "Randall Gellens" , "Glenn Parsons" , Cc: Subject: RE: [UM] Proposed LEMONADE Charter Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:02:47 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk inline > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-um@snowshore.com [mailto:owner-um@snowshore.com]On Behalf Of > Randall Gellens > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 2:15 AM > To: Glenn Parsons; um@snowshore.com > Subject: Re: [UM] Proposed LEMONADE Charter > > > I'd suggest replacing "low-bit-rate transports" with "low-bit-rate > or high-latency transports", since some wireless networks have decent > bit-rates, but still have high latency. In such environments, a few > extra bytes doesn't matter, but extra round-trips does. > > So, to fit this with Pete's suggestion, we'd have > 1. Extend and/or profile message deposit and retrieval to > satisfy the requirements for low-bit-rate or high-latency > transports and limited-processing devices, such as mobile > endpoints. done. > The problem with > 4. Extend sender/recipient device capabilities discovery > protocols to > optimise message handling according to available recipient features. > > Is that it runs counter to general IETF practices to have the server > make decisions based on the client capability, rather than have the > server offer a menu of services from which the client chooses, based > on its knowledge of its own capabilities. In general, this > server-decides approach restricts the ability to take advantage of > new client hardware or software capabilities, because the server must > be upgraded in order to recognize the new capabilities. In contrast, > an IETF "smart client" approach allows you to roll out new clients > without updating the server. > > So, I'd like to see (4) rephrased, perhaps to something like: > Extend message retrieval protocols to efficiently support > limited-capability devices by offering data transformation > services. I think it may be worthwhile explicitly saying that we're talking about server processing. How about: 4. Extend message retrieval protocols to efficiently support limited-capability devices, including data transformation services and other appropriate server processing. > > > 5. Extend and/or profile Internet mail services (such as SMTP) for > > use in "unified messaging" environments. If it turns out that > > native Internet mail services can not be used in such environments, > > define, where appropriate, translation between Internet Mail and > > other messaging systems to share a common Internet mailbox service. > > Looking at MMS, for example, it seems to me that it could be > implemented using SMTP and Internet Message facilities, with a few > extensions. Gateways can be defined for existing implementations, > but the intent should be to advance to using standard Internet > protocols. Otherwise interoperability is very hard. OK. Would this be acceptable to you & Pete? 5. Define, where appropriate, translation between Internet Mail and other messaging systems to share a common Internet mailbox service during the other messaging systems' transition to using full Internet protocols. - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Mon Oct 14 08:03:09 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9EC2n614495 for um-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:02:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from eburger (keeper.snowshore.com [216.57.133.4]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g9EC2eB14487; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Eric Burger" To: "IETF LEMONADE" Cc: "Glenn Parsons" Subject: [UM] Revised Charter Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:02:39 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk Here is the charter, incorporating the comments from Claudio, Pete, and Randall. Please send your comments to me or the list (Glenn is having laptop problems...). We would like to close comments on 24 October. Unless there are serious deficiencies in the charter, we plan on asking for chartering then. License to Enhance Messaging Oriented Network Access for Diverse Endpoints (lemonade) Proposed Charter ================ Internet Unified Messaging brings together the body of work currently chartered in VPIM, IFAX, IMAPEXT, and other IETF working groups. It also relates with the work of other bodies dealing with messaging services, such as wireless SMS, MMS, etc. The goal is to provide, over the Internet, a single infrastructure, mailbox, and set of interfaces for a user to get, respond to, and manipulate all of their messages from a collection of clients with varying capabilities, no matter what the media or source is. Initial work, in the VPIM and FAX WG for example, focused on the server and network interactions and has resulted in a rich base of Internet Mail standards to support unified messaging. Now that this work is stable in the industry, and with the proliferation of smaller and often mobile Internet devices, the issues of client access to Internet Mail need to be addressed. Given the potentially broad scope of "unified messaging", this BOF will focus specifically on the following work items: 1. Enhance message retrieval protocols to satisfy the requirements for low-latency playback. 2. Extend or profile message deposit and retrieval to satisfy the requirements for low-bit-rate, high latency, or poor transport networks and limited-processing devices, such as mobile endpoints. 3. Create appropriate message notification protocols to satisfy the need of reporting the status of different message contexts. 4. Extend message retrieval protocols to efficiently support limited-capability devices, including data transformation services and other appropriate server processing. 5. Define, where appropriate, translation between Internet Mail and other messaging systems to share a common Internet mailbox service during the other messaging systems' transition to using full Internet protocols. The BOF will coordinate its efforts with the 3GPP TSG T WG2 SWG3 Messaging and other appropriate entities, such as the W3C Mulitmodal interaction Activity and the Open Mobile Alliance . While there is obvious synergy, given the end-of-life of the VPIM and FAX work groups and the similar membership, the BOF does not expect to coordinate with those groups. Milestones (document completion) ========== Nov 2002 - LEMONADE Requirements Dec 2002 - Notification protocol Mar 2003 - IMAP extensions for VM playback Apr 2003 - IMAP extensions for mobile devices Jun 2003 - Translation to other messaging systems Current drafts (grouped per milestone) ============== - draft-vaudreuil-um-issues-00.txt - draft-burger-um-reqts-00.txt - draft-wong-umcli-00.txt - draft-shapira-snap-03.txt - draft-burger-imap-chanuse-00.txt - draft-nerenberg-imap-channel-01.txt - draft-nerenberg-imap-binary-02.txt - draft-neystadt-imap-status-counters-00.txt - draft-shveidel-mediasize-00.txt - draft-vaudreuil-futuredelivery-00.txt - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Mon Oct 14 08:03:21 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9EC3Lu14527 for um-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:03:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from eburger (keeper.snowshore.com [216.57.133.4]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g9EC2iB14489; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Eric Burger" To: "Pete Resnick" , , "Glenn Parsons" Cc: Subject: RE: [UM] Proposed LEMONADE Charter Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:02:43 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk inline > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-um@snowshore.com [mailto:owner-um@snowshore.com]On Behalf Of > Pete Resnick > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 12:20 PM > To: Glenn Parsons > Cc: um@snowshore.com > Subject: Re: [UM] Proposed LEMONADE Charter > > > On 9/19/02 at 10:39 AM -0400, Glenn Parsons wrote: > > >Attached is the proposed charter for LEMONADE. > > > >It covers all the comments we have received to date. Let us know if > >you support this charter or if you have further comments. > > I've got a few: > > >2. Extend message deposit and retrieval to satisfy the requirements > >for low-bit-rate transports and limited-processing devices, such as > >mobile endpoints. > > How about instead, "Extend and/or profile message deposit and > retrieval...."? It may be enough to make requirements on servers and > clients to satisfy some of these needs. In other cases, extension is > likely necessary. Agreed and done. > >5. Define, where appropriate, translation between Internet Mail and > >other messaging systems to share a common Internet mailbox service. > > "Wouldn't it be nice", Pete asks innocently, "if instead of defining > gateways, people just use native Internet Mail instead of these other > messaging systems?" It might be the case that gateways are necessary. > However, it might also be the case that these "other messaging > systems" could simply use real Internet Mail. I'd be inclined to > something like: > > 5. Extend and/or profile Internet mail services (such as SMTP) for > use in "unified messaging" environments. If it turns out that native > Internet mail services can not be used in such environments, define, > where appropriate, translation between Internet Mail and other > messaging systems to share a common Internet mailbox service. > > If I've missed the point of #5, please let me know. Claudio already addressed this one. > >The BOF will coordinate its efforts with the 3GPP TSG T WG2 SWG3 > >Messaging and other appropriate > >entities, such as the W3C Mulitmodal interaction Activity > > and the Open Mobile Alliance > >. > > Personally, I wouldn't mind if you left out the specific list of > "external entities", but if you do include it, I see no reason to > leave out 3GPP2. People in the IETF that liaise with the named groups need to be forewarned, as well as verify that our work is not being done there. That said, I wasn't aware of messaging activity in 3GPP2 that is more substantial than "do what 3GPP does". If I'm wrong, can you point us to the appropriate group in 3GPP2? > >If IMAP-EXT gets rechartered, then the BOF will coordinate the > >LEMONADE requirements with IMAP-EXT. Otherwise, this BOF will > >consider extensions to IMAP for the purposes of LEMONADE support. > > I'm inclined to leave this bit out. IMAPEXT is having enough trouble > getting it current work done. Once it is done, my inclination is to > close it down and take up any LEMONADE work in LEMONADE or (if need > be) to charter a new IMAP-LEMONADE group. Agreed. It is gone. - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Mon Oct 14 08:14:31 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9ECEVH14761 for um-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:14:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from elettra.trieste.it (SYNX02.elettra.trieste.it [140.105.2.2]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g9ECEPB14756; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:14:00 +0100 To: Eric Burger cc: IETF LEMONADE , Glenn Parsons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Claudio Allocchio Subject: Re: [UM] Revised Charter Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk Ok for me! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claudio Allocchio G A R R Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it Project Technical Officer tel: +39 040 3758523 Italian Academic and G=Claudio; S=Allocchio; fax: +39 040 3758565 Research Network P=garr; A=garr; C=it; PGP Key: http://security.fi.infn.it/cgi-bin/spgpk.pl?KeyId=0C5C2A09 - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Mon Oct 14 11:07:20 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9EF7I218274 for um-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:07:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from episteme-software.com (champdsl-25-66.mcleodusa.net [216.43.25.66]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9EF7FB18269; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.43.25.67] (216.43.25.67) by episteme-software.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.3); Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:07:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: resnick@resnick1.qualcomm.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora [Macintosh version 5.2a3] Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:07:01 -0500 To: From: Pete Resnick Subject: Re: [UM] Revised Charter Cc: "IETF LEMONADE" , "Glenn Parsons" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk I've still got two problems: On 10/14/02 at 8:02 AM -0400, Eric Burger wrote: >5. Define, where appropriate, translation between Internet Mail and other >messaging systems to share a common Internet mailbox service during the >other messaging systems' transition to using full Internet protocols. I still don't like this. This assumes that what you've got is a "transition" from some non-Internet Mail protocol to support. It may be the case that some of the folks that we're talking about simply scrap the idea of using a proprietary solution up front and won't need a transition at all. It also assumes that Internet Mail is going to be acceptable to the messaging systems without any changes. That's probably not true. That's why I suggested mentioning that we primarily define extensions or profiles for use with these systems, and secondarily provide translation gateways where such extensions or profiles are not sufficient for the need. >The BOF will coordinate its efforts with the 3GPP TSG T WG2 SWG3 Messaging > and other appropriate entities, such as >the W3C Mulitmodal interaction Activity and >the Open Mobile Alliance . Again, I would prefer if specific groups weren't cited. I think it would perfectly well suffice to say "The BOF will coordinate its efforts with other standards bodies which work in the field of mobile and multimodal messaging." However, if you insist on keeping the list, I know that 3GPP2 TSG-N has proposals on the table that are not at all what 3GPP is doing and I think it would be inappropriate to mention the others without mentioning 3GPP2. pr -- Pete Resnick QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102 - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Mon Oct 14 20:27:03 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9F0Qww29841 for um-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:26:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from ithilien.qualcomm.com (ithilien.qualcomm.com [129.46.51.59]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9F0QuB29834; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from crowley.qualcomm.com (crowley.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.151]) by ithilien.qualcomm.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/1.0) with ESMTP id g9F0QknS023629; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.46.75.222] (warhol.qualcomm.com [129.46.75.222]) by crowley.qualcomm.com (8.12.3/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id g9F0QeoY026506; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X v5.2a Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:24:00 -0700 To: , "Randall Gellens" , "Glenn Parsons" , From: Randall Gellens Subject: RE: [UM] Proposed LEMONADE Charter Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk At 8:02 AM -0400 10/14/02, Eric Burger wrote: > How about: > > 4. Extend message retrieval protocols to efficiently support > limited-capability devices, including data transformation services and other > appropriate server processing. Works for me. > OK. Would this be acceptable to you & Pete? > > 5. Define, where appropriate, translation between Internet Mail and other > messaging systems to share a common Internet mailbox service during the > other messaging systems' transition to using full Internet protocols. I'm happy with it. - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Mon Oct 14 20:27:25 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9F0RPQ29861 for um-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:27:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from numenor.qualcomm.com (numenor.qualcomm.com [129.46.51.58] (may be forged)) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9F0RNB29856; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from crowley.qualcomm.com (crowley.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.151]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/1.0) with ESMTP id g9F0QpN6023697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.46.75.222] (warhol.qualcomm.com [129.46.75.222]) by crowley.qualcomm.com (8.12.3/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id g9F0Qeoc026506; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X v5.2a Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:26:43 -0700 To: , "IETF LEMONADE" From: Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [UM] Revised Charter Cc: "Glenn Parsons" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk At 8:02 AM -0400 10/14/02, Eric Burger wrote: > The BOF will coordinate its efforts with the 3GPP TSG T WG2 SWG3 Messaging > and other appropriate entities, such as > the W3C Mulitmodal interaction Activity and > the Open Mobile Alliance . Maybe we should also add 3GPP2 TSG-N - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Mon Oct 14 20:27:27 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9F0RR729878 for um-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:27:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from numenor.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.58]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9F0RPB29870; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from crowley.qualcomm.com (crowley.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.151]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/1.0) with ESMTP id g9F0QoN6023696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.46.75.222] (warhol.qualcomm.com [129.46.75.222]) by crowley.qualcomm.com (8.12.3/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id g9F0Qeoa026506; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X v5.2a Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:24:52 -0700 To: , "Pete Resnick" , , "Glenn Parsons" From: Randall Gellens Subject: RE: [UM] Proposed LEMONADE Charter Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk At 8:02 AM -0400 10/14/02, Eric Burger wrote: > That said, I wasn't aware of messaging activity in 3GPP2 that is more > substantial than "do what 3GPP does". If I'm wrong, can you point us to the > appropriate group in 3GPP2? 3GPP2 TSG-N is working on MMS. It is currently being debated how much it will differ from 3GPP's specifications. - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Tue Oct 15 19:36:11 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9FNa6J02585 for um-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:36:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com (zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com [47.129.242.56]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9FNa4B02581 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zcard307.ca.nortel.com (americasm01.nt.com [47.129.242.67]) by zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.0/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g9FNZrI09432 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zcard04k.ca.nortel.com ([47.129.242.84]) by zcard307.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 4JRP21A9; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:35:53 -0400 Received: from [47.129.42.14] (g3bronze.ca.nortel.com [47.129.42.14]) by zcard04k.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 4VRVTTHM; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:35:53 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2.4011 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:28:11 -0400 Subject: [UM] LEMONADE charter - take 3 X-Sybari-Space: 00000000 00000000 00000000 From: Glenn Parsons To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="B_3117554892_5397673" Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3117554892_5397673 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Folks, Forgive my absence -- I was recovering from a HD crash :-( I believe I have found the recent LEMONADE discussions and have created a revised snapshot. Is this agreeable? 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The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Wed Oct 16 18:43:56 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9GMhrW04391 for um-outgoing; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:43:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from eburger (keeper.snowshore.com [216.57.133.4]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g9GMhpB04386 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Eric Burger" To: "IETF LEMONADE" Subject: [UM] Planning Meeting Agenda for Atlanta Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:43:51 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk It is time to start setting the agenda for the Atlanta meeting. If you want to discuss issues with drafts at the Atlanta meeting, please request a slot to do so, by sending mail to Glenn or myself . As always the slots will be allocated for discussions according to what is outlined below. It is not the purpose of a WG session to have presentation of the content of a document. It is assumed that all attendees will have read the drafts in advance of the meeting. For documents that are work-in-progress, the presentation should cover issues resolved since the last draft followed by open issues, and controversial topics with the intent to reach a resolution of said issues and topics. For new work items, the presentation should focus on what the problem is and why it is necessary for the work group to address it. Further it must be shown how the work falls within the existing charter; no time will be allocated for proposals that do not fit the current WG charter. The solution should only be sketched. The appropriate way of bringing new work to the working group is to post an Internet Draft, send a pointer to the draft to the mailing list and promote discussion on the list. Slots on the agenda should be used to discuss outstanding topics that haven't been settled on the mailing list. In all cases only a limited number of slides should be used. Speakers should budget their at least 25% of their time to allow for discussion/questions. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- THIS IS NOT A FINAL AGENDA, CHANGES MAY OCCUR BEFORE SCHEDULING CLOSES ON OCTOBER 29 at 1700 PM EDT -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- AS OF OCTOBER 15, 2002 DRAFT Agenda of the Fifty-fifth IETF November 17-21, 2002 We do not have a session assigned yet. We're hoping for Tuesday afternoon. For the up-to-the minute agenda, see . - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Wed Oct 16 19:09:47 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9GN9kc05135 for um-outgoing; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:09:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from numenor.qualcomm.com (numenor.qualcomm.com [129.46.51.58]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9GN9jB05131 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from crowley.qualcomm.com (crowley.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.151]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/1.0) with ESMTP id g9GN9cN6001941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:09:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.46.75.222] (warhol.qualcomm.com [129.46.75.222]) by crowley.qualcomm.com (8.12.3/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id g9GN8joY008055; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X v5.2a Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:04:48 -0700 To: Glenn Parsons , From: Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [UM] LEMONADE charter - take 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk It's OK with me (I, too, would prefer not to mention each group working on MMS, but since you mention 3GPP2 as well as 3GPP, it's OK.) - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Thu Oct 17 11:17:51 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9HFHLE24867 for um-outgoing; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:17:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from eburger (keeper.snowshore.com [216.57.133.4]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g9HFHJB24862 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Eric Burger" To: "IETF LEMONADE" Subject: [UM] Archive Broken Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:17:19 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk You may have noticed the web interface to the archive was broken. It is fixed. We did not lose any messages. - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html From owner-um@snowshore.com Fri Oct 18 11:25:15 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g9IFP9X27629 for um-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:25:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: flyingfox.snowshore.com: majordomo set sender to owner-um@mail.snowshore.com using -f Received: from zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com (zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com [47.129.242.56]) by flyingfox.snowshore.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9IFP7B27621 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69]) by zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.0/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g9IFOxw16934; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:25:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Glenn Parsons" To: "'um@snowshore.com'" , "IETF VPIM List (E-mail)" , "'ietf-fax@imc.org'" Subject: [UM] IETF 55 Meeting slots Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:24:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C276B9.771F827A" Sender: owner-um@snowshore.com Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C276B9.771F827A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Folks, It looks like the current preliminary schedule for IETF 55 is: FAX & VPIM - Wednesday - 9-11:30 LEMONADE - Thursday - 9-11:30 Glenn. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C276B9.771F827A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" IETF 55 Meeting slots

Folks,

It looks like the current preliminary schedule for IETF 55 is:

FAX & VPIM - Wednesday - 9-11:30
LEMONADE - Thursday - 9-11:30

Glenn.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C276B9.771F827A-- - This list is maintained by Snowshore Networks - http://www.snowshore.com All comments on this list are the comments of the message originators and Snowshore is not to be held responsible for any actions or comments found on this list. The archives for this list can be found at http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/um_archive/maillist.html