From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 1 15:49:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01603 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4my7-0006Vq-R7 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:49:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h91Jn36g025028 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:49:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4my7-0006Vb-MI for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:49:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01581 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4my6-0004MO-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; 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Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:48:17 -0400 Received: from zoe.office.snowshore.com(192.168.1.172) by webshield.office.snowshore.com via csmap id 15195; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:55:23 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:47:47 -0400 Message-ID: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D59E7C5@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Thread-Topic: Preliminary Meeting Slot Thread-Index: AcOIVVbYkPriKohpRWCcvil/+eFdTw== From: "Eric Burger" To: "IETF LEMONADE (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [lemonade] Preliminary Meeting Slot Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MONDAY, November 10, 2003 1300-1500 Afternoon Sessions I APP lemonade Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service = environments WG=20 Subject to change without notice. _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 12:36:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10839 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6YL8-0006sW-KN for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:36:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h96Ga6ah026432 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:36:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6YL8-0006sA-AO for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:36:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10810 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6YL6-0000aq-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:36:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6YL6-0000aj-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:36:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6YL3-0006qK-47; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:36:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6YKs-0006q1-R0 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:35:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10801 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6YKr-0000aZ-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:35:49 -0400 Received: from palrel10.hp.com ([156.153.255.245]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6YKq-0000aV-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:35:48 -0400 Received: from iconsrv5.india.hp.com (iconsrv5.india.hp.com [15.42.229.13]) by palrel10.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB2E1C00A55; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nt23060 (nt23060.india.hp.com [15.42.230.60]) by iconsrv5.india.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id WAA21498; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:04:36 +0530 (IST) From: "Madan Ganesh Velayudham" To: Cc: , "'Madan Ganesh V'" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:05:45 +0530 Organization: Hewlett-Packard STSD Message-ID: <003f01c38c27$e4cc3ff0$3ce62a0f@nt23060> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [lemonade] Comments on "IMAP Submit without Download Draft" Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Gellens, I'm Madan from Hewlett-Packard, India. I'm new to this group. I went through your draft. I understand the defintion of Push and Pull approach: They differ in who initiates the content transfer, whether it is server ( Push ) or Message submission agent ( Pull ). I seek/have few clarifications/recommendations on this draft. 1. In the section 4.2.1 IMAP pull overview, "The BURL extension should advertise what type of URLs it supports." I'm not sure how it would advertise. During EHLO phase ? Pls clarify. 2. Its also mentioned thatcommands BURL/GENURL/GETURL Command would be added. I'm not clear about where these commands will be added : in the SMTP extension or IMAP extension ? 3. We may have a general command URL and arguments to URL command would differentiate B/GEN/GET. This would be more generic. 4. In the draft, Push , Pull method are discussed seperately. Did we think of combined version. I could not find the neccessity of this combined version where the server would also push as well as the message submission would pull the data from Server. We can analyze the PushPull approach and document them also. I'm not sure whether these items were already discussed or not. If these had already been discussed, could you please redirect to the point where I can get gist of these itesm. Please let me know your comments. Thanks and Regards, MG ************************** Madan Ganesh Velayudham madan-ganesh.v@hp.com +91-80-205-3108 ************************** +HP/STSD/Internet Services Bangalore, India Everything is possible _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 9 10:31:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22607 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7boq-000728-5g for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:31:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h99EV83h027036 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:31:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7boq-00071z-1q for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:31:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22581 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:30:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7bon-000737-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:31:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7bon-000733-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:31:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7boj-000710-G3; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:31:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7boD-00070X-1x for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:30:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22568 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7boA-00072q-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:30:26 -0400 Received: from atlrel9.hp.com ([156.153.255.214]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7boA-00072n-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:30:26 -0400 Received: from iconsrv5.india.hp.com (iconsrv5.india.hp.com [15.42.229.13]) by atlrel9.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 193651C0164B; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nt23060 (nt23060.india.hp.com [15.42.230.60]) by iconsrv5.india.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id TAA07166; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:59:12 +0530 (IST) From: "Madan Ganesh Velayudham" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [lemonade] Comments on "IMAP Submit without Download Draft" Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:00:23 +0530 Organization: Hewlett-Packard STSD Message-ID: <000001c38e71$e038e6e0$3ce62a0f@nt23060> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003f01c38c27$e4cc3ff0$3ce62a0f@nt23060> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gellens, Could you please share your comments. Thanks and Regards, MG -----Original Message----- From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org [mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Madan Ganesh Velayudham Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:06 PM To: randy@qualcomm.com Cc: lemonade@ietf.org; 'Madan Ganesh V' Subject: [lemonade] Comments on "IMAP Submit without Download Draft" Hello Gellens, I'm Madan from Hewlett-Packard, India. I'm new to this group. I went through your draft. I understand the defintion of Push and Pull approach: They differ in who initiates the content transfer, whether it is server ( Push ) or Message submission agent ( Pull ). I seek/have few clarifications/recommendations on this draft. 1. In the section 4.2.1 IMAP pull overview, "The BURL extension should advertise what type of URLs it supports." I'm not sure how it would advertise. During EHLO phase ? Pls clarify. 2. Its also mentioned thatcommands BURL/GENURL/GETURL Command would be added. I'm not clear about where these commands will be added : in the SMTP extension or IMAP extension ? 3. We may have a general command URL and arguments to URL command would differentiate B/GEN/GET. This would be more generic. 4. In the draft, Push , Pull method are discussed seperately. Did we think of combined version. I could not find the neccessity of this combined version where the server would also push as well as the message submission would pull the data from Server. We can analyze the PushPull approach and document them also. I'm not sure whether these items were already discussed or not. If these had already been discussed, could you please redirect to the point where I can get gist of these itesm. Please let me know your comments. Thanks and Regards, MG ************************** Madan Ganesh Velayudham madan-ganesh.v@hp.com +91-80-205-3108 ************************** +HP/STSD/Internet Services Bangalore, India Everything is possible _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 17:10:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25330 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAFNr-0003HN-9D for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:10:11 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GLABKC012578 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:10:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAFNq-0003Gn-Du for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:10:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25302 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAFNo-0002vB-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:10:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAFNn-0002v7-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:10:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAFNh-0003FQ-Te; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:10:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAFNd-0003Ew-Nw for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25288 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAFNb-0002up-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:55 -0400 Received: from goalie.snowshore.com ([216.57.133.4] helo=webshield.office.snowshore.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAFNa-0002u8-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:55 -0400 Received: from zoe.office.snowshore.com(192.168.1.172) by webshield.office.snowshore.com via csmap id 30414; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:17:54 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:33 -0400 Message-ID: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D59E890@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Thread-Topic: Want to be a document editor? Thread-Index: AcOUKm4hj5LSTKkIT3ij1s58l25Hvg== From: "Eric Burger" To: "IETF LEMONADE (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [lemonade] Want to be a document editor? Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sunday, November 10, 2003 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 1330-1500 Editor's Training -- Conrad C Training for current or aspiring IETF document editors. Covers the roles and responsibilities=20 of a document editor, and includes advice on=20 producing a high-quality IETF specification. _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 02:43:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA21182 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAOKK-0002YT-E0 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:43:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9H6h8Zi009820 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:43:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAOKJ-0002YJ-Tf for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:43:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA21176 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAOKG-0007Mb-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:43:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAOKF-0007MY-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:43:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAOKD-0002Xk-MV; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:43:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAOJU-0002UR-2j for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:42:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA21167 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAOJQ-0007MP-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:42:12 -0400 Received: from palrel10.hp.com ([156.153.255.245]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAOJP-0007MI-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:42:11 -0400 Received: from iconsrv5.india.hp.com (iconsrv5.india.hp.com [15.42.229.13]) by palrel10.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 617EE1C011BB; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nt23060 (nt23060.india.hp.com [15.42.230.60]) by iconsrv5.india.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id MAA26528; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:10:22 +0530 (IST) From: "Madan Ganesh Velayudham" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [lemonade] Comments on "IMAP Submit without Download Draft" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:11:31 +0530 Organization: Hewlett-Packard STSD Message-ID: <001c01c39479$b3f9ebc0$3ce62a0f@nt23060> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000001c38e71$e038e6e0$3ce62a0f@nt23060> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I seek/have few clarifications/recommendations on this draft. > > 1. In the section 4.2.1 IMAP pull overview, > > "The BURL extension should advertise what type of URLs it > supports." > > I'm not sure how it would advertise. During EHLO > phase ? Pls clarify. > > 2. Its also mentioned thatcommands BURL/GENURL/GETURL Command > would be added. I'm not clear about where these commands will be > added : in the SMTP extension or IMAP extension ? > > 3. We may have a general command URL and arguments to URL command > would differentiate B/GEN/GET. This would be more generic. > > 4. In the draft, Push , Pull method are discussed seperately. Did > we think of combined version. I could not find the neccessity of > this combined version where the server would also push as well as > the message submission would pull the data from Server. We can > analyze the PushPull approach and document them also. No comments ???? MG > -----Original Message----- > From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org > [mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Madan Ganesh Velayudham > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 8:00 PM > To: randy@qualcomm.com > Cc: lemonade@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [lemonade] Comments on "IMAP Submit without > Download Draft" > > > Hi Gellens, > > Could you please share your comments. > > Thanks and Regards, > MG > > -----Original Message----- > From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org > [mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Madan Ganesh Velayudham > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:06 PM > To: randy@qualcomm.com > Cc: lemonade@ietf.org; 'Madan Ganesh V' > Subject: [lemonade] Comments on "IMAP Submit without Download Draft" > > > Hello Gellens, > > I'm Madan from Hewlett-Packard, India. > > I'm new to this group. I went through your draft. > > I understand the defintion of Push and Pull > approach: > They differ in who initiates the content > transfer, whether it is server ( Push ) or > Message submission agent ( Pull ). > > I seek/have few clarifications/recommendations on this draft. > > 1. In the section 4.2.1 IMAP pull overview, > > "The BURL extension should advertise what type of URLs it > supports." > > I'm not sure how it would advertise. During EHLO > phase ? Pls clarify. > > 2. Its also mentioned thatcommands BURL/GENURL/GETURL Command > would be added. I'm not clear about where these commands will be > added : in the SMTP extension or IMAP extension ? > > 3. We may have a general command URL and arguments to URL command > would differentiate B/GEN/GET. This would be more generic. > > 4. In the draft, Push , Pull method are discussed seperately. Did > we think of combined version. I could not find the neccessity of > this combined version where the server would also push as well as > the message submission would pull the data from Server. We can > analyze the PushPull approach and document them also. > > I'm not sure whether these items were already discussed or > not. If these had already been discussed, could you please > redirect to the point where I can get gist of these itesm. > > Please let me know your comments. > > Thanks and Regards, > MG > > ************************** > Madan Ganesh Velayudham > madan-ganesh.v@hp.com > +91-80-205-3108 > ************************** > +HP/STSD/Internet Services > Bangalore, India > > Everything is possible > > > _______________________________________________ > lemonade mailing list > lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > > > _______________________________________________ > lemonade mailing list > lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 06:12:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26293 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AARab-0003pk-I6 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:12:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HAC917014737 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:12:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AARab-0003pc-A7 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:12:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26278 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AARaX-0001Zu-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:12:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AARaX-0001Zq-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:12:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AARaS-0003oM-VG; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:12:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AARZh-0003nZ-57 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:11:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26269 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AARZd-0001ZF-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:11:09 -0400 Received: from goalie.snowshore.com ([216.57.133.4] helo=webshield.office.snowshore.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AARZc-0001Yl-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:11:08 -0400 Received: from zoe.office.snowshore.com(192.168.1.172) by webshield.office.snowshore.com via csmap id 28958; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:19:07 -0400 (EDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:10:47 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F67D8@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Thread-Topic: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted Thread-Index: AcOBTjWdZ1pI823qQCy7mb55DkHw/ATR8A2g From: "Eric Burger" To: "Ted Wugofski" Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would tighten-up the abstract. The difference between mmsto: and mms: = was not clear to me until I got to Section 4.1. The mms: scheme makes sense to me, as it directs interaction over the = MM1 interface. However, what is the argument for mmsto: over mailto:? = Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? Should there be a = differentiation between a *user* specifying SMTP vs. MMS? I would think = that the *user* cares about sending a message, irrespective of endpoint = transfer method. For example, I would not expect a *sending* user to = specify IMAP vs. POP access for the receiving user. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ted Wugofski [mailto:ted.wugofski@openwave.com] > Sent: Mon, September 22, 2003 5:11 PM > To: lemonade@ietf.org > Subject: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted >=20 >=20 > I have recently posted an I-D pertaining to Multimedia=20 > Messaging Service=20 > (MMS) URI schemes. Please see: >=20 > = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wugofski-mms-uri-scheme-00.txt [snip] _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 12:24:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09175 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAXOX-0005Aa-2a for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:24:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HGO5v5019866 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:24:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAXOW-0005AL-UF for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:24:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09165 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAXOV-0005I6-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:24:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAXOV-0005I3-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:24:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAXOT-00059w-AN; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:24:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAXNd-00059Q-SE for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:23:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09134 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAXNc-0005HV-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:23:08 -0400 Received: from oe-im1pub.managedmail.com ([206.46.164.52] helo=oe-im1.bizmailsrvcs.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAXNb-0005Gp-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:23:07 -0400 Received: from mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net ([206.46.164.28]) by oe-im1.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031017162237.QIHK4394.oe-im1.bizmailsrvcs.net@mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:22:37 -0500 Received: from openwave.com ([64.93.16.234]) by mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031017162236.EOEY14430.mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net@openwave.com>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:22:36 -0500 Message-ID: <3F901749.3040004@openwave.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:22:33 -0500 From: Ted Wugofski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Burger CC: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted References: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F67D8@zoe.office.snowshore.com> In-Reply-To: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F67D8@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the feedback. > However, what is the argument for mmsto: over mailto:? ... > I would > think that the *user* cares about sending a message, irrespective of > endpoint transfer method 1. mailto: requires RFC2822 compliant addresses, whereas MMS supports additional non-RFC2822 addresses (phone numbers, short codes, ...) 2. MMS has a different, but intersecting, set of value header name-value pairs. Therefore, the hname/hvalue definition within mailto: is too constrained. 3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has constraints on the content types (among other things) that can be sent. Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly different than an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. 4. MMS charging may be different than Internet Mail charging. For example, premium service providers may get a revenue share for premium MMS messages sent from the handset. So the author of the "mmsto" may have a business interest in ensuring that the MMS transfer method be used. > Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? I share your concern, but thats beyond the scope of the I-D to address. MMS exists and I am simply trying to provide a URI that allows content/service providers to leverage that capability. I do plan to make the above comments more clear in the next draft. I had a similar discussion with Larry Masinter on this topic. Eric Burger wrote: > I would tighten-up the abstract. The difference between mmsto: and > mms: was not clear to me until I got to Section 4.1. > > The mms: scheme makes sense to me, as it directs interaction over the > MM1 interface. However, what is the argument for mmsto: over > mailto:? Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? Should > there be a differentiation between a *user* specifying SMTP vs. MMS? > I would think that the *user* cares about sending a message, > irrespective of endpoint transfer method. For example, I would not > expect a *sending* user to specify IMAP vs. POP access for the > receiving user. > > >> -----Original Message----- From: Ted Wugofski >> [mailto:ted.wugofski@openwave.com] Sent: Mon, September 22, 2003 >> 5:11 PM To: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes >> I-D posted >> >> >> I have recently posted an I-D pertaining to Multimedia Messaging >> Service (MMS) URI schemes. Please see: >> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wugofski-mms-uri-scheme-00.txt >> >> >> > > [snip] > > > _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list > lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > -- Ted Wugofski CTO Office Openwave +1 817 658 6195 (m) +1 817 737 4533 (o) ted.wugofski@openwave.com _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 13:53:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13036 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAYmk-0001bG-Eg for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:53:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HHrA0a006144 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:53:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAYmk-0001ax-9s for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:53:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13006 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:53:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAYmi-0006Os-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:53:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAYmh-0006Op-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:53:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAYmc-0001WH-7O; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:53:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAYmG-0001VE-O9 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12954 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAYmE-0006Nt-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:38 -0400 Received: from atlrel9.hp.com ([156.153.255.214]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAYmD-0006Nj-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:37 -0400 Received: from iconsrv5.india.hp.com (iconsrv5.india.hp.com [15.42.229.13]) by atlrel9.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810B21C02077; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nt23060 (nt23060.india.hp.com [15.42.230.60]) by iconsrv5.india.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id XAA18870; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:21:25 +0530 (IST) From: "Madan Ganesh Velayudham" To: "'Ted Wugofski'" Cc: Subject: RE: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:22:33 +0530 Organization: Hewlett-Packard STSD Message-ID: <001301c394d7$71b34780$3ce62a0f@nt23060> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3F901749.3040004@openwave.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has > constraints on the content types (among other things) that > can be sent. > Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly > different than > an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? I'm assume not. Pls clarify. Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard messages to 3GPP TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to Handsets. Can we have something like that ? +MG > -----Original Message----- > From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org > [mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ted Wugofski > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:53 PM > To: Eric Burger > Cc: lemonade@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted > > > Thanks for the feedback. > > > However, what is the argument for mmsto: over mailto:? ... > > I would > > think that the *user* cares about sending a message, > irrespective of > > endpoint transfer method > > 1. mailto: requires RFC2822 compliant addresses, whereas MMS supports > additional non-RFC2822 addresses (phone numbers, short codes, ...) > > 2. MMS has a different, but intersecting, set of value header > name-value > pairs. Therefore, the hname/hvalue definition within mailto: is too > constrained. > > 3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has > constraints on the content types (among other things) that > can be sent. > Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly > different than > an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. > > 4. MMS charging may be different than Internet Mail charging. For > example, premium service providers may get a revenue share > for premium > MMS messages sent from the handset. So the author of the "mmsto" may > have a business interest in ensuring that the MMS transfer > method be used. > > > Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? > > I share your concern, but thats beyond the scope of the I-D > to address. > MMS exists and I am simply trying to provide a URI that allows > content/service providers to leverage that capability. > > I do plan to make the above comments more clear in the next draft. I > had a similar discussion with Larry Masinter on this topic. > > > > > > Eric Burger wrote: > > > I would tighten-up the abstract. The difference between mmsto: and > > mms: was not clear to me until I got to Section 4.1. > > > > The mms: scheme makes sense to me, as it directs > interaction over the > > MM1 interface. However, what is the argument for mmsto: > over mailto:? > > Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? Should > there be a > > differentiation between a *user* specifying SMTP vs. MMS? I would > > think that the *user* cares about sending a message, > irrespective of > > endpoint transfer method. For example, I would not expect > a *sending* > > user to specify IMAP vs. POP access for the receiving user. > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- From: Ted Wugofski > >> [mailto:ted.wugofski@openwave.com] Sent: Mon, September 22, 2003 > >> 5:11 PM To: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes > >> I-D posted > >> > >> > >> I have recently posted an I-D pertaining to Multimedia Messaging > >> Service (MMS) URI schemes. Please see: > >> > >> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-> wugofski-mms-uri-scheme-00. > >> txt > >> > >> > >> ************************** Madan Ganesh Velayudham madan-ganesh.v@hp.com Hewlett-Packard, India _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 14:22:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14790 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZEi-0003JT-PR for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:22:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HIM4dn012729 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:22:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZEi-0003JE-Kp for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:22:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14725 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZEg-0006tP-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:22:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZEf-0006tM-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:22:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZEf-0003In-4p; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:22:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZEE-0003I0-D6 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14621 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZEB-0006rm-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:31 -0400 Received: from oe-im1pub.managedmail.com ([206.46.164.52] helo=oe-im1.bizmailsrvcs.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZEB-0006qC-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:31 -0400 Received: from mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net ([206.46.164.28]) by oe-im1.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031017182101.ROQI4394.oe-im1.bizmailsrvcs.net@mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:21:01 -0500 Received: from openwave.com ([206.35.147.89]) by mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031017182100.FEWI14430.mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net@openwave.com>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:21:00 -0500 Message-ID: <3F903308.4090101@openwave.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:20:56 -0500 From: Ted Wugofski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Madan Ganesh Velayudham CC: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted References: <001301c394d7$71b34780$3ce62a0f@nt23060> In-Reply-To: <001301c394d7$71b34780$3ce62a0f@nt23060> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? I'm > assume not. Pls clarify. The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per the 3GPP & 3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. > Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to > handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard messages to > 3GPP TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to > Handsets. Can we have something like that ? I don't understand your question. Can you give me the use case you are thinking about? /ted Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: >>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has >>constraints on the content types (among other things) that >>can be sent. >> Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly >>different than >>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. > > > How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? > I'm assume not. Pls clarify. > > Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails > to handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard > messages > to 3GPP TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to > Handsets. > Can we have something like that ? > > +MG > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org >>[mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ted Wugofski >>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:53 PM >>To: Eric Burger >>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted >> >> >>Thanks for the feedback. >> >> >>>However, what is the argument for mmsto: over mailto:? ... >>> I would >>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, >> >>irrespective of >> >>>endpoint transfer method >> >>1. mailto: requires RFC2822 compliant addresses, whereas MMS supports >>additional non-RFC2822 addresses (phone numbers, short codes, ...) >> >>2. MMS has a different, but intersecting, set of value header >>name-value >>pairs. Therefore, the hname/hvalue definition within mailto: is too >>constrained. >> >>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has >>constraints on the content types (among other things) that >>can be sent. >> Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly >>different than >>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. >> >>4. MMS charging may be different than Internet Mail charging. For >>example, premium service providers may get a revenue share >>for premium >>MMS messages sent from the handset. So the author of the "mmsto" may >>have a business interest in ensuring that the MMS transfer >>method be used. >> >> > Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? >> >>I share your concern, but thats beyond the scope of the I-D >>to address. >> MMS exists and I am simply trying to provide a URI that allows >>content/service providers to leverage that capability. >> >>I do plan to make the above comments more clear in the next draft. I >>had a similar discussion with Larry Masinter on this topic. >> >> >> >> >> >>Eric Burger wrote: >> >> >>>I would tighten-up the abstract. The difference between mmsto: and >>>mms: was not clear to me until I got to Section 4.1. >>> >>>The mms: scheme makes sense to me, as it directs >> >>interaction over the >> >>>MM1 interface. However, what is the argument for mmsto: >> >>over mailto:? >> >>>Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? Should >> >>there be a >> >>>differentiation between a *user* specifying SMTP vs. MMS? I would >>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, >> >>irrespective of >> >>>endpoint transfer method. For example, I would not expect >> >>a *sending* >> >>>user to specify IMAP vs. POP access for the receiving user. >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- From: Ted Wugofski >>>>[mailto:ted.wugofski@openwave.com] Sent: Mon, September 22, 2003 >>>>5:11 PM To: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes >>>>I-D posted >>>> >>>> >>>>I have recently posted an I-D pertaining to Multimedia Messaging >>>>Service (MMS) URI schemes. Please see: >>>> >>>> >> >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-> > > wugofski-mms-uri-scheme-00. > >>>>txt >>>> >>>> >>>> > > > ************************** > Madan Ganesh Velayudham > madan-ganesh.v@hp.com > Hewlett-Packard, India > > > _______________________________________________ > lemonade mailing list > lemonade@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > -- Ted Wugofski CTO Office Openwave +1 817 658 6195 (m) +1 817 737 4533 (o) ted.wugofski@openwave.com _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 14:30:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15040 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZMU-0003Y1-BL for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:30:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HIU6ME013635 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:30:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZMU-0003Xq-6o for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:30:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15005 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZMR-0006xh-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:30:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZMR-0006xe-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:30:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZMP-0003XN-Kx; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:30:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZLu-0003WU-6w for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:29:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14986 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZLr-0006xb-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:29:27 -0400 Received: from atlrel9.hp.com ([156.153.255.214]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZLq-0006xY-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:29:27 -0400 Received: from iconsrv5.india.hp.com (iconsrv5.india.hp.com [15.42.229.13]) by atlrel9.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 261911C019AB; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nt23060 (nt23060.india.hp.com [15.42.230.60]) by iconsrv5.india.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id XAA20945; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:58:14 +0530 (IST) From: "Madan Ganesh Velayudham" To: "'Ted Wugofski'" Cc: Subject: RE: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:59:24 +0530 Organization: Hewlett-Packard STSD Message-ID: <001701c394dc$96dc6cd0$3ce62a0f@nt23060> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3F903308.4090101@openwave.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per the 3GPP & > 3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. Fine. > > Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to > > handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard > messages to 3GPP > > TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to > Handsets. Can > > we have something like that ? > > I don't understand your question. Can you give me the use > case you are > thinking about? The mobiles are cabable of recognizing, MT SMS: MO SMS: Headers. They cannont understand From: To: Headers. So, I believe the Service providers do the converion of From to MO SMS: & To: MT SMS: Headers. Can we enhance the draft or have a separate draft for sending MMS thru SMTP? + MG > -----Original Message----- > From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org > [mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ted Wugofski > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:51 PM > To: Madan Ganesh Velayudham > Cc: lemonade@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted > > > > How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? I'm > > assume not. Pls clarify. > > The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per the 3GPP & > 3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. > > > Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to > > handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard > messages to 3GPP > > TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to > Handsets. Can > > we have something like that ? > > I don't understand your question. Can you give me the use > case you are > thinking about? > > /ted > > > > Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: > > >>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has > >>constraints on the content types (among other things) that > >>can be sent. > >> Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly > >>different than > >>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. > > > > > > How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? > > I'm assume not. Pls clarify. > > > > Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails > > to handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 > standard messages > > to 3GPP TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to > > Handsets. > > Can we have something like that ? > > > > +MG > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org > >>[mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ted Wugofski > >>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:53 PM > >>To: Eric Burger > >>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org > >>Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted > >> > >> > >>Thanks for the feedback. > >> > >> > >>>However, what is the argument for mmsto: over mailto:? ... > >>> I would > >>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, > >> > >>irrespective of > >> > >>>endpoint transfer method > >> > >>1. mailto: requires RFC2822 compliant addresses, whereas > MMS supports > >>additional non-RFC2822 addresses (phone numbers, short codes, ...) > >> > >>2. MMS has a different, but intersecting, set of value header > >>name-value > >>pairs. Therefore, the hname/hvalue definition within > mailto: is too > >>constrained. > >> > >>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has > >>constraints on the content types (among other things) that > >>can be sent. > >> Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly > >>different than > >>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. > >> > >>4. MMS charging may be different than Internet Mail charging. For > >>example, premium service providers may get a revenue share > >>for premium > >>MMS messages sent from the handset. So the author of the > "mmsto" may > >>have a business interest in ensuring that the MMS transfer > >>method be used. > >> > >> > Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? > >> > >>I share your concern, but thats beyond the scope of the I-D > >>to address. > >> MMS exists and I am simply trying to provide a URI that allows > >>content/service providers to leverage that capability. > >> > >>I do plan to make the above comments more clear in the next > draft. I > >>had a similar discussion with Larry Masinter on this topic. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Eric Burger wrote: > >> > >> > >>>I would tighten-up the abstract. The difference between mmsto: and > >>>mms: was not clear to me until I got to Section 4.1. > >>> > >>>The mms: scheme makes sense to me, as it directs > >> > >>interaction over the > >> > >>>MM1 interface. However, what is the argument for mmsto: > >> > >>over mailto:? > >> > >>>Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? Should > >> > >>there be a > >> > >>>differentiation between a *user* specifying SMTP vs. MMS? I would > >>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, > >> > >>irrespective of > >> > >>>endpoint transfer method. For example, I would not expect > >> > >>a *sending* > >> > >>>user to specify IMAP vs. POP access for the receiving user. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>-----Original Message----- From: Ted Wugofski > >>>>[mailto:ted.wugofski@openwave.com] Sent: Mon, September 22, 2003 > >>>>5:11 PM To: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes > >>>>I-D posted > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>I have recently posted an I-D pertaining to Multimedia Messaging > >>>>Service (MMS) URI schemes. Please see: > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-> > > > > wugofski-mms-uri-scheme-00. > > > >>>>txt > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > > > > > ************************** > > Madan Ganesh Velayudham > > madan-ganesh.v@hp.com > > Hewlett-Packard, India > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > lemonade mailing list > > lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > > > > -- > > Ted Wugofski > CTO Office > Openwave > +1 817 658 6195 (m) > +1 817 737 4533 (o) > ted.wugofski@openwave.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > lemonade mailing list > lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 14:52:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15629 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZhl-0004O9-1j for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:52:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HIq5MJ016863 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:52:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZhk-0004Nu-TE for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:52:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15620 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZhi-00076n-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:52:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZhh-00076k-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:52:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZhh-0004NR-5g; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:52:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAZhN-0004Mr-VK for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:51:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15610 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZhL-00076X-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:51:39 -0400 Received: from oe-im1pub.managedmail.com ([206.46.164.52] helo=oe-im1.bizmailsrvcs.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAZhK-00076T-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:51:38 -0400 Received: from mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net ([206.46.164.28]) by oe-im1.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031017185108.RXTW4394.oe-im1.bizmailsrvcs.net@mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:51:08 -0500 Received: from openwave.com ([64.93.16.234]) by mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031017185107.FJWX14430.mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net@openwave.com>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:51:07 -0500 Message-ID: <3F903A17.9030601@openwave.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:51:03 -0500 From: Ted Wugofski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Madan Ganesh Velayudham CC: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted References: <001701c394dc$96dc6cd0$3ce62a0f@nt23060> In-Reply-To: <001701c394dc$96dc6cd0$3ce62a0f@nt23060> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The 3GPP & 3GPP2 architectures have a place for a bridge between the MMS world and SMTP world, its just currently underspecified. There is work underway in 3GPP2 to deal with bridging between MMS and SMTP. I can't talk about the OMA activities due to confidentiality reasons. The open question is whether the header mapping will be defined in the 3GPP, 3GPP2, or IETF. I don't know. But I think I know who is doing the work, so I will ask him. Regardless, I think SMTP<>MMS mapping is fundamentally different than a URI scheme. Needs to be done, but a different work item. /ted Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: >>The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per the 3GPP & >>3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. > > > Fine. > > > >>>Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to >>>handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard >> >>messages to 3GPP >> >>>TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to >> >>Handsets. Can >> >>>we have something like that ? >> >>I don't understand your question. Can you give me the use >>case you are >>thinking about? > > > The mobiles are cabable of recognizing, MT SMS: MO SMS: Headers. > > They cannont understand From: To: Headers. > > So, I believe the Service providers do the converion of > From to MO SMS: > & > To: MT SMS: Headers. > > Can we enhance the draft or have a separate draft for > sending MMS thru SMTP? > > + MG > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org >>[mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ted Wugofski >>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:51 PM >>To: Madan Ganesh Velayudham >>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted >> >> >> >>>How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? I'm >>>assume not. Pls clarify. >> >>The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per the 3GPP & >>3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. >> >> >>>Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to >>>handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard >> >>messages to 3GPP >> >>>TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to >> >>Handsets. Can >> >>>we have something like that ? >> >>I don't understand your question. Can you give me the use >>case you are >>thinking about? >> >>/ted >> >> >> >>Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: >> >> >>>>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has >>>>constraints on the content types (among other things) that >>>>can be sent. >>>> Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly >>>>different than >>>>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. >>> >>> >>> How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? >>> I'm assume not. Pls clarify. >>> >>> Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails >>> to handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 >> >>standard messages >> >>> to 3GPP TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to >>>Handsets. >>> Can we have something like that ? >>> >>> +MG >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org >>>>[mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ted Wugofski >>>>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:53 PM >>>>To: Eric Burger >>>>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org >>>>Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted >>>> >>>> >>>>Thanks for the feedback. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>However, what is the argument for mmsto: over mailto:? ... >>>>>I would >>>>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, >>>> >>>>irrespective of >>>> >>>> >>>>>endpoint transfer method >>>> >>>>1. mailto: requires RFC2822 compliant addresses, whereas >> >>MMS supports >> >>>>additional non-RFC2822 addresses (phone numbers, short codes, ...) >>>> >>>>2. MMS has a different, but intersecting, set of value header >>>>name-value >>>>pairs. Therefore, the hname/hvalue definition within >> >>mailto: is too >> >>>>constrained. >>>> >>>>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has >>>>constraints on the content types (among other things) that >>>>can be sent. >>>> Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly >>>>different than >>>>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. >>>> >>>>4. MMS charging may be different than Internet Mail charging. For >>>>example, premium service providers may get a revenue share >>>>for premium >>>>MMS messages sent from the handset. So the author of the >> >>"mmsto" may >> >>>>have a business interest in ensuring that the MMS transfer >>>>method be used. >>>> >>>> >>>>>Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? >>>> >>>>I share your concern, but thats beyond the scope of the I-D >>>>to address. >>>> MMS exists and I am simply trying to provide a URI that allows >>>>content/service providers to leverage that capability. >>>> >>>>I do plan to make the above comments more clear in the next >> >>draft. I >> >>>>had a similar discussion with Larry Masinter on this topic. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Eric Burger wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I would tighten-up the abstract. The difference between mmsto: and >>>>>mms: was not clear to me until I got to Section 4.1. >>>>> >>>>>The mms: scheme makes sense to me, as it directs >>>> >>>>interaction over the >>>> >>>> >>>>>MM1 interface. However, what is the argument for mmsto: >>>> >>>>over mailto:? >>>> >>>> >>>>>Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? Should >>>> >>>>there be a >>>> >>>> >>>>>differentiation between a *user* specifying SMTP vs. MMS? I would >>>>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, >>>> >>>>irrespective of >>>> >>>> >>>>>endpoint transfer method. For example, I would not expect >>>> >>>>a *sending* >>>> >>>> >>>>>user to specify IMAP vs. POP access for the receiving user. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Ted Wugofski >>>>>>[mailto:ted.wugofski@openwave.com] Sent: Mon, September 22, 2003 >>>>>>5:11 PM To: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes >>>>>>I-D posted >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I have recently posted an I-D pertaining to Multimedia Messaging >>>>>>Service (MMS) URI schemes. Please see: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-> >>> >>>wugofski-mms-uri-scheme-00. >>> >>> >>>>>>txt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>> ************************** >>> Madan Ganesh Velayudham >>> madan-ganesh.v@hp.com >>> Hewlett-Packard, India >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>lemonade mailing list >>>lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade >>> >> >>-- >> >>Ted Wugofski >>CTO Office >>Openwave >>+1 817 658 6195 (m) >>+1 817 737 4533 (o) >>ted.wugofski@openwave.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>lemonade mailing list >>lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > lemonade mailing list > lemonade@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > -- Ted Wugofski CTO Office Openwave +1 817 658 6195 (m) +1 817 737 4533 (o) ted.wugofski@openwave.com _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 18 06:02:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24406 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:02:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAnuU-0000TT-3O for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:02:11 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9IA2A56001820 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:02:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAnuT-0000TH-Qn for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:02:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24403 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAnuQ-0007aw-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:02:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAnuP-0007as-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:02:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAnuL-0000RA-G3; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:02:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAnu3-0000IB-40 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:01:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24396 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAntz-0007ap-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:01:39 -0400 Received: from atlrel8.hp.com ([156.153.255.206]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAnty-0007al-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:01:38 -0400 Received: from iconsrv5.india.hp.com (iconsrv5.india.hp.com [15.42.229.13]) by atlrel8.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C21A1C01A02; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nt23060 (nt23060.india.hp.com [15.42.230.60]) by iconsrv5.india.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id PAA07146; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:30:26 +0530 (IST) From: "Madan Ganesh Velayudham" To: "'Ted Wugofski'" Cc: Subject: RE: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:31:35 +0530 Organization: Hewlett-Packard STSD Message-ID: <00ca01c3955e$d186e950$3ce62a0f@nt23060> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: <3F903A17.9030601@openwave.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for your thoughts. > > The 3GPP & 3GPP2 architectures have a place for a bridge > between the MMS > world and SMTP world, its just currently underspecified. > > There is work underway in 3GPP2 to deal with bridging between MMS and > SMTP. I can't talk about the OMA activities due to confidentiality > reasons. Ok. > > The open question is whether the header mapping will be > defined in the > 3GPP, 3GPP2, or IETF. I don't know. But I think I know who is doing > the work, so I will ask him. > Pls let me know. > Regardless, I think SMTP<>MMS mapping is fundamentally > different than a > URI scheme. Needs to be done, but a different work item. Ok. I shall plan to take up this. +MG > > /ted > > > Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: > > >>The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per the 3GPP & > >>3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. > > > > > > Fine. > > > > > > > >>>Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to > >>>handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard > >> > >>messages to 3GPP > >> > >>>TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to > >> > >>Handsets. Can > >> > >>>we have something like that ? > >> > >>I don't understand your question. Can you give me the use > >>case you are > >>thinking about? > > > > > > The mobiles are cabable of recognizing, MT SMS: MO SMS: Headers. > > > > They cannont understand From: To: Headers. > > > > So, I believe the Service providers do the converion of > > From to MO SMS: > > & > > To: MT SMS: Headers. > > > > Can we enhance the draft or have a separate draft for > > sending MMS thru SMTP? > > > > + MG > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org > >>[mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ted Wugofski > >>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:51 PM > >>To: Madan Ganesh Velayudham > >>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org > >>Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted > >> > >> > >> > >>>How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? I'm > >>>assume not. Pls clarify. > >> > >>The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per the 3GPP & > >>3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. > >> > >> > >>>Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to > >>>handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard > >> > >>messages to 3GPP > >> > >>>TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to > >> > >>Handsets. Can > >> > >>>we have something like that ? > >> > >>I don't understand your question. Can you give me the use > >>case you are > >>thinking about? > >> > >>/ted > >> > >> > >> > >>Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: > >> > >> > >>>>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has > >>>>constraints on the content types (among other things) that can be > >>>>sent. Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly > >>>>different than > >>>>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. > >>> > >>> > >>> How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? > >>> I'm assume not. Pls clarify. > >>> > >>> Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails > >>> to handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 > >> > >>standard messages > >> > >>> to 3GPP TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to > compatible to > >>>Handsets. > >>> Can we have something like that ? > >>> > >>> +MG > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org [mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On > >>>>Behalf Of Ted Wugofski > >>>>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:53 PM > >>>>To: Eric Burger > >>>>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org > >>>>Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Thanks for the feedback. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>However, what is the argument for mmsto: over mailto:? > ... I would > >>>>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, > >>>> > >>>>irrespective of > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>endpoint transfer method > >>>> > >>>>1. mailto: requires RFC2822 compliant addresses, whereas > >> > >>MMS supports > >> > >>>>additional non-RFC2822 addresses (phone numbers, short codes, ...) > >>>> > >>>>2. MMS has a different, but intersecting, set of value header > >>>>name-value pairs. Therefore, the hname/hvalue definition within > >> > >>mailto: is too > >> > >>>>constrained. > >>>> > >>>>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has > >>>>constraints on the content types (among other things) that can be > >>>>sent. Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly > >>>>different than > >>>>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. > >>>> > >>>>4. MMS charging may be different than Internet Mail > charging. For > >>>>example, premium service providers may get a revenue share for > >>>>premium MMS messages sent from the handset. So the author of the > >> > >>"mmsto" may > >> > >>>>have a business interest in ensuring that the MMS transfer > >>>>method be used. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? > >>>> > >>>>I share your concern, but thats beyond the scope of the I-D to > >>>>address. MMS exists and I am simply trying to provide a URI that > >>>>allows content/service providers to leverage that capability. > >>>> > >>>>I do plan to make the above comments more clear in the next > >> > >>draft. I > >> > >>>>had a similar discussion with Larry Masinter on this topic. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Eric Burger wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>I would tighten-up the abstract. The difference between > mmsto: and > >>>>>mms: was not clear to me until I got to Section 4.1. > >>>>> > >>>>>The mms: scheme makes sense to me, as it directs > >>>> > >>>>interaction over the > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>MM1 interface. However, what is the argument for mmsto: > >>>> > >>>>over mailto:? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? Should > >>>> > >>>>there be a > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>differentiation between a *user* specifying SMTP vs. > MMS? I would > >>>>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, > >>>> > >>>>irrespective of > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>endpoint transfer method. For example, I would not expect > >>>> > >>>>a *sending* > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>user to specify IMAP vs. POP access for the receiving user. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Ted Wugofski > >>>>>>[mailto:ted.wugofski@openwave.com] Sent: Mon, September > 22, 2003 > >>>>>>5:11 PM To: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: [lemonade] MMS > URI schemes > >>>>>>I-D posted > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>I have recently posted an I-D pertaining to Multimedia Messaging > >>>>>>Service (MMS) URI schemes. Please see: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-> > >>> > >>>wugofski-mms-uri-scheme-00. > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>txt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ************************** > >>> Madan Ganesh Velayudham > >>> madan-ganesh.v@hp.com > >>> Hewlett-Packard, India > >>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>lemonade mailing list > >>>lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > >>> > >> > >>-- > >> > >>Ted Wugofski > >>CTO Office > >>Openwave > >>+1 817 658 6195 (m) > >>+1 817 737 4533 (o) > >>ted.wugofski@openwave.com > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>lemonade mailing list > >>lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > lemonade mailing list > > lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > > > > -- > > Ted Wugofski > CTO Office > Openwave > +1 817 658 6195 (m) > +1 817 737 4533 (o) > ted.wugofski@openwave.com > > > _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 18 10:30:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29898 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAs5n-0005wD-1A for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:30:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9IEU76I022825 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:30:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAs5m-0005w4-Pf for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:30:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29874 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAs5k-0001cm-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:30:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAs5k-0001cj-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:30:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAs5i-0005ub-K5; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:30:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAs5V-0005qG-VJ for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:29:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29871 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAs5T-0001cZ-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:29:47 -0400 Received: from palrel10.hp.com ([156.153.255.245]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAs5T-0001cW-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:29:47 -0400 Received: from iconsrv5.india.hp.com (iconsrv5.india.hp.com [15.42.229.13]) by palrel10.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FCE21C00342; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nt23060 (nt23060.india.hp.com [15.42.230.60]) by iconsrv5.india.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id TAA19481; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:58:30 +0530 (IST) From: "Madan Ganesh Velayudham" To: "'Ted Wugofski'" Cc: Subject: RE: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:59:40 +0530 Organization: Hewlett-Packard STSD Message-ID: <000401c39584$46acd760$3ce62a0f@nt23060> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00ca01c3955e$d186e950$3ce62a0f@nt23060> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Regardless, I think SMTP<>MMS mapping is fundamentally > > different than a > > URI scheme. Needs to be done, but a different work item. > > Ok. I shall plan to take up this. > Looks like already there ... http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gellens-lemonade-mms-mapping-0 0.txt +MG > -----Original Message----- > From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org > [mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Madan Ganesh Velayudham > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 3:32 PM > To: 'Ted Wugofski' > Cc: lemonade@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted > > > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > > > > The 3GPP & 3GPP2 architectures have a place for a bridge > > between the MMS > > world and SMTP world, its just currently underspecified. > > > > There is work underway in 3GPP2 to deal with bridging > between MMS and > > SMTP. I can't talk about the OMA activities due to confidentiality > > reasons. > > Ok. > > > > The open question is whether the header mapping will be > > defined in the > > 3GPP, 3GPP2, or IETF. I don't know. But I think I know > who is doing > > the work, so I will ask him. > > > Pls let me know. > > > Regardless, I think SMTP<>MMS mapping is fundamentally > > different than a > > URI scheme. Needs to be done, but a different work item. > > Ok. I shall plan to take up this. > > +MG > > > > > > /ted > > > > > > Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: > > > > >>The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per > the 3GPP & > > >>3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. > > > > > > > > > Fine. > > > > > > > > > > > >>>Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to > > >>>handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard > > >> > > >>messages to 3GPP > > >> > > >>>TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to > > >> > > >>Handsets. Can > > >> > > >>>we have something like that ? > > >> > > >>I don't understand your question. Can you give me the > use case you > > >>are thinking about? > > > > > > > > > The mobiles are cabable of recognizing, MT SMS: MO SMS: Headers. > > > > > > They cannont understand From: To: Headers. > > > > > > So, I believe the Service providers do the converion of > > > From to MO SMS: > > > & > > > To: MT SMS: Headers. > > > > > > Can we enhance the draft or have a separate draft for > > > sending MMS thru SMTP? > > > > > > + MG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > > >>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org [mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On > > >>Behalf Of Ted Wugofski > > >>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:51 PM > > >>To: Madan Ganesh Velayudham > > >>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org > > >>Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? I'm > > >>>assume not. Pls clarify. > > >> > > >>The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per > the 3GPP & > > >>3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. > > >> > > >> > > >>>Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to > > >>>handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard > > >> > > >>messages to 3GPP > > >> > > >>>TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to > > >> > > >>Handsets. Can > > >> > > >>>we have something like that ? > > >> > > >>I don't understand your question. Can you give me the > use case you > > >>are thinking about? > > >> > > >>/ted > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>>>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has > > >>>>constraints on the content types (among other things) > that can be > > >>>>sent. Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly > > >>>>different than > > >>>>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? > > >>> I'm assume not. Pls clarify. > > >>> > > >>> Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails > > >>> to handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 > > >> > > >>standard messages > > >> > > >>> to 3GPP TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to > > compatible to > > >>>Handsets. > > >>> Can we have something like that ? > > >>> > > >>> +MG > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>-----Original Message----- > > >>>>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org > [mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On > > >>>>Behalf Of Ted Wugofski > > >>>>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:53 PM > > >>>>To: Eric Burger > > >>>>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org > > >>>>Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>Thanks for the feedback. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>However, what is the argument for mmsto: over mailto:? > > ... I would > > >>>>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, > > >>>> > > >>>>irrespective of > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>endpoint transfer method > > >>>> > > >>>>1. mailto: requires RFC2822 compliant addresses, whereas > > >> > > >>MMS supports > > >> > > >>>>additional non-RFC2822 addresses (phone numbers, short > codes, ...) > > >>>> > > >>>>2. MMS has a different, but intersecting, set of value header > > >>>>name-value pairs. Therefore, the hname/hvalue definition within > > >> > > >>mailto: is too > > >> > > >>>>constrained. > > >>>> > > >>>>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has > > >>>>constraints on the content types (among other things) > that can be > > >>>>sent. Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly > > >>>>different than > > >>>>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. > > >>>> > > >>>>4. MMS charging may be different than Internet Mail > > charging. For > > >>>>example, premium service providers may get a revenue share for > > >>>>premium MMS messages sent from the handset. So the > author of the > > >> > > >>"mmsto" may > > >> > > >>>>have a business interest in ensuring that the MMS > transfer method > > >>>>be used. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? > > >>>> > > >>>>I share your concern, but thats beyond the scope of the I-D to > > >>>>address. MMS exists and I am simply trying to provide > a URI that > > >>>>allows content/service providers to leverage that capability. > > >>>> > > >>>>I do plan to make the above comments more clear in the next > > >> > > >>draft. I > > >> > > >>>>had a similar discussion with Larry Masinter on this topic. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>Eric Burger wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>I would tighten-up the abstract. The difference between > > mmsto: and > > >>>>>mms: was not clear to me until I got to Section 4.1. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>The mms: scheme makes sense to me, as it directs > > >>>> > > >>>>interaction over the > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>MM1 interface. However, what is the argument for mmsto: > > >>>> > > >>>>over mailto:? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? Should > > >>>> > > >>>>there be a > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>differentiation between a *user* specifying SMTP vs. > > MMS? I would > > >>>>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, > > >>>> > > >>>>irrespective of > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>endpoint transfer method. For example, I would not expect > > >>>> > > >>>>a *sending* > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>user to specify IMAP vs. POP access for the receiving user. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Ted Wugofski > > >>>>>>[mailto:ted.wugofski@openwave.com] Sent: Mon, September > > 22, 2003 > > >>>>>>5:11 PM To: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: [lemonade] MMS > > URI schemes > > >>>>>>I-D posted > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>I have recently posted an I-D pertaining to > Multimedia Messaging > > >>>>>>Service (MMS) URI schemes. Please see: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-> > > >>> > > >>>wugofski-mms-uri-scheme-00. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>>>txt > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ************************** > > >>> Madan Ganesh Velayudham > > >>> madan-ganesh.v@hp.com > > >>> Hewlett-Packard, India > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>_______________________________________________ > > >>>lemonade mailing list > > >>>lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > > >>> > > >> > > >>-- > > >> > > >>Ted Wugofski > > >>CTO Office > > >>Openwave > > >>+1 817 658 6195 (m) > > >>+1 817 737 4533 (o) > > >>ted.wugofski@openwave.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>lemonade mailing list > > >>lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > lemonade mailing list > > > lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ted Wugofski > > CTO Office > > Openwave > > +1 817 658 6195 (m) > > +1 817 737 4533 (o) > > ted.wugofski@openwave.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > lemonade mailing list > lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 18 13:55:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03797 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:55:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAvIF-0002Qb-83 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:55:11 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9IHtBPR009327 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:55:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAvIF-0002QM-31 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:55:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03775 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAvIC-0003tG-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:55:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAvIC-0003tD-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:55:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAvI6-0002P1-Q9; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:55:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAvHO-0002L2-U0 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:54:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03724 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAvHM-0003rw-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:54:16 -0400 Received: from oe-im2pub.managedmail.com ([206.46.164.53] helo=oe-im2.bizmailsrvcs.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAvHL-0003rA-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:54:15 -0400 Received: from mm-ismta4.bizmailsrvcs.net ([206.46.164.29]) by oe-im2.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031018175345.LXOT10994.oe-im2.bizmailsrvcs.net@mm-ismta4.bizmailsrvcs.net>; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:53:45 -0500 Received: from openwave.com ([206.35.147.89]) by mm-ismta4.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031018175343.MEBA24233.mm-ismta4.bizmailsrvcs.net@openwave.com>; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:53:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3F917E16.7080609@openwave.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:53:26 -0500 From: Ted Wugofski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Madan Ganesh Velayudham CC: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted References: <000401c39584$46acd760$3ce62a0f@nt23060> In-Reply-To: <000401c39584$46acd760$3ce62a0f@nt23060> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thats who I was refering to.. so good! Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: >>>Regardless, I think SMTP<>MMS mapping is fundamentally >>>different than a >>>URI scheme. Needs to be done, but a different work item. >> >> Ok. I shall plan to take up this. >> > > > Looks like already there ... > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gellens-lemonade-mms-mapping-0 > 0.txt > > +MG > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org >>[mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Madan Ganesh Velayudham >>Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 3:32 PM >>To: 'Ted Wugofski' >>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org >>Subject: RE: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted >> >> >> >> Thanks for your thoughts. >> >> >>>The 3GPP & 3GPP2 architectures have a place for a bridge >>>between the MMS >>>world and SMTP world, its just currently underspecified. >>> >>>There is work underway in 3GPP2 to deal with bridging >> >>between MMS and >> >>>SMTP. I can't talk about the OMA activities due to confidentiality >>>reasons. >> >> Ok. >> >>>The open question is whether the header mapping will be >>>defined in the >>>3GPP, 3GPP2, or IETF. I don't know. But I think I know >> >>who is doing >> >>>the work, so I will ask him. >>> >> >> Pls let me know. >> >> >>>Regardless, I think SMTP<>MMS mapping is fundamentally >>>different than a >>>URI scheme. Needs to be done, but a different work item. >> >> Ok. I shall plan to take up this. >> >> +MG >> >> >> >>>/ted >>> >>> >>>Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per >> >>the 3GPP & >> >>>>>3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. >>>> >>>> >>>> Fine. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to >>>>>>handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard >>>>> >>>>>messages to 3GPP >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to >>>>> >>>>>Handsets. Can >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>we have something like that ? >>>>> >>>>>I don't understand your question. Can you give me the >> >>use case you >> >>>>>are thinking about? >>>> >>>> >>>> The mobiles are cabable of recognizing, MT SMS: MO SMS: Headers. >>>> >>>> They cannont understand From: To: Headers. >>>> >>>> So, I believe the Service providers do the converion of >>>> From to MO SMS: >>>> & >>>> To: MT SMS: Headers. >>>> >>>> Can we enhance the draft or have a separate draft for >>>> sending MMS thru SMTP? >>>> >>>> + MG >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org [mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On >>>>>Behalf Of Ted Wugofski >>>>>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:51 PM >>>>>To: Madan Ganesh Velayudham >>>>>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org >>>>>Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? I'm >>>>>>assume not. Pls clarify. >>>>> >>>>>The MMS message is transferred using the MMS protocol per >> >>the 3GPP & >> >>>>>3GPP2 specifications. I will make that clearer in the I-D. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails to >>>>>>handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 standard >>>>> >>>>>messages to 3GPP >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to compatible to >>>>> >>>>>Handsets. Can >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>we have something like that ? >>>>> >>>>>I don't understand your question. Can you give me the >> >>use case you >> >>>>>are thinking about? >>>>> >>>>>/ted >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has >>>>>>>constraints on the content types (among other things) >> >>that can be >> >>>>>>>sent. Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly >>>>>>>different than >>>>>>>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How would the MMS is transferred ? Is it via existing SMTP ? >>>>>> I'm assume not. Pls clarify. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many service providers provide a proxy job of sending emails >>>>>> to handsets as SMS, ie., converting the RFC 822 >>>>> >>>>>standard messages >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> to 3GPP TS23040V5.6.1 standard message in order to >>> >>>compatible to >>> >>>>>>Handsets. >>>>>> Can we have something like that ? >>>>>> >>>>>> +MG >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: lemonade-admin@ietf.org >> >>[mailto:lemonade-admin@ietf.org] On >> >>>>>>>Behalf Of Ted Wugofski >>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:53 PM >>>>>>>To: Eric Burger >>>>>>>Cc: lemonade@ietf.org >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Thanks for the feedback. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>However, what is the argument for mmsto: over mailto:? >>> >>>... I would >>> >>>>>>>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>irrespective of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>endpoint transfer method >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1. mailto: requires RFC2822 compliant addresses, whereas >>>>> >>>>>MMS supports >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>additional non-RFC2822 addresses (phone numbers, short >> >>codes, ...) >> >>>>>>>2. MMS has a different, but intersecting, set of value header >>>>>>>name-value pairs. Therefore, the hname/hvalue definition within >>>>> >>>>>mailto: is too >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>constrained. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>3. MMS is more than a transfer method (ala SMTP), it also has >>>>>>>constraints on the content types (among other things) >> >>that can be >> >>>>>>>sent. Hence, an MMS composer user agent is almost certainly >>>>>>>different than >>>>>>>an SMTP/Internet-Mail composer user agent. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>4. MMS charging may be different than Internet Mail >>> >>>charging. For >>> >>>>>>>example, premium service providers may get a revenue share for >>>>>>>premium MMS messages sent from the handset. So the >> >>author of the >> >>>>>"mmsto" may >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>have a business interest in ensuring that the MMS >> >>transfer method >> >>>>>>>be used. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I share your concern, but thats beyond the scope of the I-D to >>>>>>>address. MMS exists and I am simply trying to provide >> >>a URI that >> >>>>>>>allows content/service providers to leverage that capability. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I do plan to make the above comments more clear in the next >>>>> >>>>>draft. I >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>had a similar discussion with Larry Masinter on this topic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Eric Burger wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I would tighten-up the abstract. The difference between >>> >>>mmsto: and >>> >>>>>>>>mms: was not clear to me until I got to Section 4.1. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The mms: scheme makes sense to me, as it directs >>>>>>> >>>>>>>interaction over the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>MM1 interface. However, what is the argument for mmsto: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>over mailto:? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Isn't the idea for 3GPP to use Internet standards? Should >>>>>>> >>>>>>>there be a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>differentiation between a *user* specifying SMTP vs. >>> >>>MMS? I would >>> >>>>>>>>think that the *user* cares about sending a message, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>irrespective of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>endpoint transfer method. For example, I would not expect >>>>>>> >>>>>>>a *sending* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>user to specify IMAP vs. POP access for the receiving user. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Ted Wugofski >>>>>>>>>[mailto:ted.wugofski@openwave.com] Sent: Mon, September >>> >>>22, 2003 >>> >>>>>>>>>5:11 PM To: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: [lemonade] MMS >>> >>>URI schemes >>> >>>>>>>>>I-D posted >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I have recently posted an I-D pertaining to >> >>Multimedia Messaging >> >>>>>>>>>Service (MMS) URI schemes. Please see: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-> >>>>>> >>>>>>wugofski-mms-uri-scheme-00. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>txt >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ************************** >>>>>> Madan Ganesh Velayudham >>>>>> madan-ganesh.v@hp.com >>>>>> Hewlett-Packard, India >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>lemonade mailing list >>>>>>lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>> >>>>>Ted Wugofski >>>>>CTO Office >>>>>Openwave >>>>>+1 817 658 6195 (m) >>>>>+1 817 737 4533 (o) >>>>>ted.wugofski@openwave.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>lemonade mailing list >>>>>lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>lemonade mailing list >>>>lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade >>>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Ted Wugofski >>>CTO Office >>>Openwave >>>+1 817 658 6195 (m) >>>+1 817 737 4533 (o) >>>ted.wugofski@openwave.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>lemonade mailing list >>lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > lemonade mailing list > lemonade@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > -- Ted Wugofski CTO Office Openwave +1 817 658 6195 (m) +1 817 737 4533 (o) ted.wugofski@openwave.com _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 18:10:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09674 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABiE6-0005WE-1B for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KMAAJh021210 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABiE5-0005W1-Rx for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09640 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABiE3-000204-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABiE2-000200-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABiDx-0005UB-Lj; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABiD7-0005Jr-AF for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:09:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09412 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABiD4-0001xB-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:09:06 -0400 Received: from 216-43-25-66.ip.mcleodusa.net ([216.43.25.66] helo=episteme-software.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABiD3-0001vd-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:09:05 -0400 Received: from [216.43.25.67] (216.43.25.67) by episteme-software.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server X 3.2.3b1); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:08:39 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: resnick@resnick1.qualcomm.com Message-Id: X-Mailer: Eudora [Macintosh version 6.1a2] Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:08:32 -0500 To: Lemonade From: Pete Resnick Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [lemonade] IMAP COMPOSE extension Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , [Bcc'ed to IMAPEXT; please followup to LEMONADE] I didn't have time last week to finish an I-D before the deadline, but I figured I should at least start the conversation on the list before Minneapolis. When talking about IMAP Push vs. IMAP Pull for "forward without download" in Vienna, a lot of us thought that in either case, it would be handy to have an an IMAP COMPOSE command. The idea here would be COMPOSE would be pretty much like APPEND (with the mailbox in which to append, an optional flag list and optional date/time string), except that instead of a message literal, it would take as parameters any number of literals and "message part identifiers". All of the literals and the message parts would be appended together in the destination mailbox as one big message. The client would be responsible for providing the appropriate MIME boundaries in the literals. Having a composed message on the IMAP server would work for either IMAP push or IMAP pull, and this would obviously be useful for more than just "forward without download". However, I still have some issues with the exact nature of this command. Specifically, my big question is how to deal with the "message part identifiers". A message part identifier would clearly include a sequence number or UID followed by message data item names or a macro, just like FETCH. However, the downside to making it look exactly like the FETCH parameters is that you can only compose a message made up of parts that are contained in the currently selected mailbox. Maybe that is sufficient given the application for which LEMONADE wants this, but it's clearly a limitation. The other choice is that the message part identifier would also include a mailbox name. We could come up with some syntax for that or just use a relative IMAP URL. Of course, the upside is that you'd be able to collect together messages in different parts of the IMAP store. But there are a couple of really big downsides: 1. It breaks the assumption that you only ever have one mailbox selected. In effect, you'd be required on the server to access multiple mailboxes in the course of a single command execution. Maybe that's OK to require for this extension; maybe not. 2. If it is allowed to be other than a relative URL to *this* IMAP server, suddenly you get into the business of doing all of the IMAP client work that folks were so worried about when this discussion started. 3. Allowing it to be a URL might start us down the slippery slope of allowing *any* kind of URL, not just IMAP. The results of that are left as an exercise to the reader. Having the more general syntax (i.e., something that includes the mailbox) might be nice for folks who want to do fancier things in the future. We could allow any server to say "NO" if given something with another mailbox (or server, or scheme). Or maybe we don't want to do this at all. Feedback desired. I'll float a straw-man proposal to the list (which obviously won't make it as an I-D for Minneapolis) as soon as I can. pr -- Pete Resnick QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102 _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 18:33:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA11541 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABiaL-0002UK-8q for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:33:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KMX9r5009564 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:33:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABiaK-0002SH-Q9 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:33:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA11492 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABiaG-0002Uj-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:33:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABiaF-0002Uf-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:33:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABiaE-0002Pc-O6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:33:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABiZn-0002JC-VB for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:32:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA11477 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABiZk-0002U1-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:32:32 -0400 Received: from mxout2.cac.washington.edu ([140.142.33.4]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABiZk-0002Tw-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:32:32 -0400 Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.9]) by mxout2.cac.washington.edu (8.12.10+UW03.09/8.12.10+UW03.09) with ESMTP id h9KMWUhu013586; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:32:30 -0700 Received: from Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu [128.95.135.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.washington.edu (8.12.10+UW03.09/8.12.10+UW03.09) with ESMTP id h9KMWTSS012142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:32:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:32:30 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: Mark Crispin To: Pete Resnick cc: Lemonade Subject: Re: [lemonade] IMAP COMPOSE extension In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Pete - It seems to me that the URLAUTH mechanism which Chris and I have proposed answers most (if not all) of the problems which you are having with an IMAP COMPOSE extension. Given URLAUTH, I think that most (if not all) of the use/need for a COMPOSE extension in IMAP is overtaken by events; or at least IMAP COMPOSE degenerates into just APPENDing a message template to a mailbox and then sending a URLAUTH URI that references that message. Please refer to the latest I-D for URLAUTH: draft-crispin-imap-urlauth-03.txt In particular, note that the URLAUTH mechanism allows collection of messages from different parts of the IMAP store, and even from different IMAP stores. Even better, an agent referencing a URLAUTH URI doesn't have to know all that much about IMAP. I noted your objection about the slippery slope of allowing any kind of URL as opposed to just IMAP. I wonder how well any proposal is going to prevent this from happening, short of banning any use of URLs; and if the attempt to do so doesn't ultimately doom that proposal. Although in the short term, a limit to IMAP URLs seems reasonable, I think that in the long term other types of URLs (e.g. FTP URLs) will be desirable. That's the beauty of the BURL approach, and URLAUTH fits in with that quite nicely. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum. _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 02:25:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA07787 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABpx8-0002yj-D4 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:25:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9L6PAqU011417 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:25:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABpx6-0002xQ-VR for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:25:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA07760 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABpx3-00002G-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:25:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABpx2-00002D-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:25:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABpwz-0002tq-KM; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:25:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABpwg-0002nz-Tg for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:24:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA07746 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:24:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABpwd-00001v-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:24:39 -0400 Received: from 216-43-25-66.ip.mcleodusa.net ([216.43.25.66] helo=episteme-software.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABpwc-00001g-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:24:38 -0400 Received: from [216.43.25.67] (216.43.25.67) by episteme-software.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server X 3.2.3b1); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:24:14 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: resnick@resnick1.qualcomm.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora [Macintosh version 6.1a2] Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:24:06 -0500 To: Mark Crispin From: Pete Resnick Subject: Re: [lemonade] IMAP COMPOSE extension Cc: Lemonade Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On 10/20/03 at 3:32 PM -0700, Mark Crispin wrote: >It seems to me that the URLAUTH mechanism which Chris and I have >proposed answers most (if not all) of the problems which you are >having with an IMAP COMPOSE extension. So are you saying that URLFETCH is an acceptable general mechanism and such an operation is reasonable, even in the context of COMPOSE? The main problem I was having was with the notion (I believe mentioned to me by Chris) that requesting parts from non-selected mailboxes would be problematic for many server implementations. If that's not an issue, then I will plow ahead with COMPOSE using IMAP URLs for the referenced parts. >Given URLAUTH, I think that most (if not all) of the use/need for a >COMPOSE extension in IMAP is overtaken by events; I'm not sure I know what you mean by "overtaken by events". >or at least IMAP COMPOSE degenerates into just APPENDing a message >template to a mailbox and then sending a URLAUTH URI that references >that message. Well, sort of. COMPOSE as I see it is simply APPENDing a template message, where that template is a concatenation of message literals and something equivalent to the result of URLFETCHs (if we decide that using URLs is OK). The nice thing is that it gives the responsibility for building that message (i.e., putting in the MIME boundaries, etc.) to the client. Then, that composed message can handed off to whatever submit mechanism we choose. As was discussed in Vienna (see the minutes), there was widespread support for a compose mechanism being separate from the submission mechanism. Without going into great detail, the idea was that no matter what method for submit we choose, it would most logical and efficient to have the composition take place in IMAP. This was viewed as not only a good compromise, but as a way to get by the knot of the push vs. pull debate by reducing the question to simply the submission mechanism. Anyway, I see COMPOSE as a good thing to add to IMAP, with or without this particular problem to solve. >In particular, note that the URLAUTH mechanism allows collection of >messages from different parts of the IMAP store, and even from >different IMAP stores. Even better, an agent referencing a URLAUTH >URI doesn't have to know all that much about IMAP. Well, here I think you're talking about the BURL mechanism that allows this, not URLAUTH per se. And I believe most everyone in the room, including Chris (please correct me if I'm wrong, Chris) agreed that having a composition mechanism in IMAP was the better way to approach the problem at hand. >I noted your objection about the slippery slope of allowing any kind >of URL as opposed to just IMAP. I wonder how well any proposal is >going to prevent this from happening, short of banning any use of >URLs; and if the attempt to do so doesn't ultimately doom that >proposal. Well, like I said, I'm not sure whether the URL approach is going to be acceptable for COMPOSE. If it isn't, I don't think it dooms the proposal; we can always use a BURL type mechanism in the future for the more complicated cases. But it seemed to most of us in the room that the simplest way to approach the problem at hand was to do the compose in IMAP and then use either URLAUTH/submit-server mechanism or an IMAP submit mechanism afterwards. pr -- Pete Resnick QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102 _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 06:35:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12483 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABtr1-0005a9-Ky for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:35:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LAZ7P3021450 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:35:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABtqz-0005Zt-TY for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:35:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12470 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABtqv-0001x7-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:35:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABtqv-0001x4-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:35:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABtqu-0005YG-DN; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:35:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABtqP-0005OD-Ki for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:34:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12446 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABtqL-0001wT-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:34:25 -0400 Received: from melkebalanse.gulbrandsen.priv.no ([217.19.171.131]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABtqK-0001wQ-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:34:25 -0400 Message-Id: From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: Pete Resnick Cc: lemonade@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:37:37 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [lemonade] Re: IMAP COMPOSE extension Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete Resnick writes: > [Bcc'ed to IMAPEXT; please followup to LEMONADE] > > The client would be responsible for providing the appropriate MIME > boundaries in the literals. Why? The server can pick boundaries that don't collide with the content. All the client can do is pick boundaries that have low probability of doing so. =2E.. > The other choice is that the message part identifier would also > include a mailbox name. =2E.. > 1. It breaks the assumption that you only ever have one mailbox > selected. In effect, you'd be required on the server to access > multiple mailboxes in the course of a single command execution. Maybe > that's OK to require for this extension; maybe not. Barry Leiba's SEARCHM has the same property. Noone implemented it (sadly), but noone complained about that property either. IMNSHO, a client that's smart enough to gather together parts from different mailboxes in the first place is also smart enough to gather them using a sequence of COPY, COMPOSE, STORE +FLAGS \DELETED and EXPUNGE. --Arnt _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 10:08:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA18443 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxB7-0004rc-4Z for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:08:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LE84ve018681 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:08:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxB5-0004qJ-LH for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:08:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA18374 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxB3-0003l4-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:08:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxB2-0003l1-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:08:00 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxB3-0004os-6g; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:08:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxAh-0004cH-7I for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:07:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA18321 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxAe-0003ki-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:07:36 -0400 Received: from mxout5.cac.washington.edu ([140.142.32.135]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxAe-0003ke-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:07:36 -0400 Received: from shiva1.cac.washington.edu (shiva1.cac.washington.edu [140.142.100.201]) by mxout5.cac.washington.edu (8.12.10+UW03.09/8.12.10+UW03.09) with ESMTP id h9LE7XMk017132; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:07:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (mrc@localhost) by shiva1.cac.washington.edu (8.12.10+UW03.09/8.12.10+UW03.09) with ESMTP id h9LE7X4s016293; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:07:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:07:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Crispin To: Pete Resnick cc: Lemonade Subject: Re: [lemonade] IMAP COMPOSE extension In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Pete Resnick wrote: > So are you saying that URLFETCH is an acceptable general mechanism > and such an operation is reasonable, even in the context of COMPOSE? > The main problem I was having was with the notion (I believe > mentioned to me by Chris) that requesting parts from non-selected > mailboxes would be problematic for many server implementations. The whole point of the URLAUTH/URLFETCH mechanism is to minimize dealing with IMAP. There is no need for a composer to have a selected mailbox, much less worry about whether a particular URI is in a selected mailbox. In fact, it leads to the obvious question of why there are such extreme efforts to make this strange IMAP protocol do composition, which all you have to do with IMAP is grab the data and go away. > Well, sort of. COMPOSE as I see it is simply APPENDing a template > message, where that template is a concatenation of message literals > and something equivalent to the result of URLFETCHs (if we decide > that using URLs is OK). The nice thing is that it gives the > responsibility for building that message (i.e., putting in the MIME > boundaries, etc.) to the client. Then, that composed message can > handed off to whatever submit mechanism we choose. Why not just use APPEND, with *no* special composition requirements on the IMAP server? Then every IMAPrev1 server in the world today works. > As was discussed in Vienna (see the minutes), there was widespread > support for a compose mechanism being separate from the submission > mechanism. Without going into great detail, the idea was that no > matter what method for submit we choose, it would most logical and > efficient to have the composition take place in IMAP. This was viewed > as not only a good compromise, but as a way to get by the knot of the > push vs. pull debate by reducing the question to simply the > submission mechanism. Some important people could not go to Vienna. I don't think that we can consider anything said there to be final, although it is a consideration. > Anyway, I see COMPOSE as a good thing to add to IMAP, with or without > this particular problem to solve. I do not. I see it as a disaster -- effectively an attempt to make IMAP into the IETF answer to Exchange and other all-inclusive proprietary systems. As an answer to Exchange, IMAP fails miserably. IMAP was focused on solving one problem of email -- message access -- and nothing else. I don't like giving ammo to the clowns who argue for a POP4 on the grounds that "IMAP is a bloated mess that's becoming more bloated." Yet that is where I see the addition of orthogonal functionality heading. URLAUTH/URLFETCH fits in will with the concept of message access, and seems to be a worthwhile extension for other reasons. The practice of using APPEND to upload a template barely fits in because APPEND is already there. Adding an explicit COMPOSE command, or otherwise mandating that an IMAP server do compose-assembly, does not. By tying compose-assembly to IMAP, this means that any use of any other access mechanism as a data source for a composed message must either use both IMAP and that other mechanism, or all the compose-assembly work in IMAP must be duplicated (either in that mechanism or in an independent protocol). Think NNTP. Or suppose that POP4 does happen. OK, I admit it. This *is* a slippery slope argument. Being a slippery slope argument doesn't mean that it is an invalid argument. Actually, I think that there should be a URLAUTH mechanism in POP3; and I probably should add appropriate text to the URLAUTH document to extend POP3 as well. Although the thought of POP3 clients being obliged to use IMAP for composition *is* a delicious irony,...... > >In particular, note that the URLAUTH mechanism allows collection of > >messages from different parts of the IMAP store, and even from > >different IMAP stores. Even better, an agent referencing a URLAUTH > >URI doesn't have to know all that much about IMAP. > Well, here I think you're talking about the BURL mechanism that > allows this, not URLAUTH per se. I'm talking about an external mechanism, such as BURL. The exact nature of the external mechanism is a separate issue. It doesn't have to be BURL, although BURL seems to be a reasonable offering. > And I believe most everyone in the > room, including Chris (please correct me if I'm wrong, Chris) agreed > that having a composition mechanism in IMAP was the better way to > approach the problem at hand. If Chris has abandoned BURL in favor of compose-assembly in IMAP, that is news to me. > Well, like I said, I'm not sure whether the URL approach is going to > be acceptable for COMPOSE. If it isn't, I don't think it dooms the > proposal; we can always use a BURL type mechanism in the future for > the more complicated cases. But it seemed to most of us in the room > that the simplest way to approach the problem at hand was to do the > compose in IMAP and then use either URLAUTH/submit-server mechanism > or an IMAP submit mechanism afterwards. I advocate taking the long view, and doing the right thing now; rather than be sidetracked on an interim quick-and-dirty "easy" answer (that some of us don't think will be so "quick" or "easy", but will be dirty). -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum. _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 10:58:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22005 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxxV-0001gR-Gi for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:58:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LEw4Hx006463 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:58:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxxT-0001g5-Tk for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:58:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21975 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxxR-0004cW-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:58:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxxR-0004cT-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:58:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxxQ-0001f1-W3; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:58:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxxH-0001cN-KA for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:57:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21962 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxxF-0004cD-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:57:49 -0400 Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.198.35]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxxE-0004bq-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:57:48 -0400 Received: from guppylake.com (pcp05307270pcs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net[68.42.70.186]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003102114571001300pdb2ee>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:57:10 +0000 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:58:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [lemonade] IMAP COMPOSE extension Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: Pete Resnick , Lemonade To: Mark Crispin From: Nathaniel Borenstein In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been lurking on this topic without any dog in the hunt, but I think I've been following things long enough to be willing to admit to being totally confused. Why are we doing this in the first place? It would be very helpful to me if someone could step back and clearly [re-]state the problem we are trying to solve with IMAP COMPOSE. Is there in fact a general agreement about goals? Two people with completely different goals who are trying to collaborate on building a single artifact need to at least understand each other's goals. Otherwise they will frequently view each other as bozos. My apologies if I've missed something totally obvious. -- nathaniel _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 14:50:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA00190 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC1aA-0006vW-4C for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LIoEPL026622 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC1a8-0006v3-Is for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA00150 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC1a5-0007VW-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC1a5-0007VT-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC1Zx-0006rN-VY; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:50:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC1Zh-0006nh-1R for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:49:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA00128 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC1Ze-0007V1-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:49:42 -0400 Received: from 216-43-25-66.ip.mcleodusa.net ([216.43.25.66] helo=episteme-software.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC1Zd-0007UL-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:49:41 -0400 Received: from [216.43.25.67] (216.43.25.67) by episteme-software.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server X 3.2.3b1); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:49:17 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: resnick@resnick1.qualcomm.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1066736125@[10.0.1.8]> References: <2147483647.1066736125@[10.0.1.8]> X-Mailer: Eudora [Macintosh version 6.1a2] Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:49:08 -0500 To: Cyrus Daboo From: Pete Resnick Cc: Lemonade Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [lemonade] Re: IMAP COMPOSE extension Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On 10/21/03 at 11:35 AM -0400, Cyrus Daboo wrote: >Note that APPEND does not require selected state - i.e. you can >append to any mailbox not just the one that may be currently >selected in that session. My concern wasn't about the destination mailbox; that I understood was independent of selected state. My concern was the *source* mailboxes for the included parts. >What I would prefer to see here is something more like an 'expand' >action rather than a 'compose' action (multiple items that are put >together to form the final message) as you described. By that I mean >the client submits a fully formed rfc2822 MIME message that uses >message/external-body (or some new message/xxx type as appropriate) >with URL (or a new 'IMAP' type) references and the server is then >instructed to 'expand' the external references as it appends the >message. I thought about this (and I think I discussed it with several folks in Vienna). The downside to expand is that you then have a message with "expandable parts". That means that I can send you an "unexpanded message" and perhaps invoke some unexpected shenanigans in your server, perhaps getting it to expand things upon forwarding my message that you didn't expect. Also, EXPAND makes this operation depend on examining the internals of a message in the message store, which is one of the things that Mark especially objected to earlier with regard to other proposals. I think it's an interesting idea, but I think COMPOSE is safer and easier to implement for IMAP servers. >Expand rather than compose would also make handling of those types >of messages easier on the client-side. Often a user does not compose >and send a message at the same time. They might 'partially' compose >it, save it for later, then work on it again and send it out later. >By not using the 'expand' option for APPEND until the final >composition is done, the overhead of the expand/compose only occurs >once during the lifetime of a draft message that gets >saved/rewritten many times. That makes it easier (overhead wise) on the server side, not the client side. And though I agree that an implementation might go ahead and copy the included part into the new message immediately, there is nothing to say that the server can't just keep a pointer to the included part and only expand it when the message is FETCHed. >Also, consider how to deal with such messages in disconnected mode. >Again it would be much easier for a client to use the 'expand' >method in disconnected mode as it could cache the complete >unexpanded message and then sync that up to the server using >append+expand. That would be harder to do using 'compose' as the >disconnected client would have to keep track of the separate >elements of the compose message items whilst disconnected. I don't really see a big difference. The client is going to have some local representation of the message with the included parts. That could be some sort of MIME entity with special pointers to included parts, or it could be something else. I guess in the EXPAND case, the client can use an identical representation locally to the template it uploads to the server. In COMPOSE, the client would change syntax (literals and URLs), but I really don't see that as a big deal. And again, I'm uninclined to have "expandable" MIME entities floating around. pr -- Pete Resnick QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102 _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 14:56:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA00422 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC1fm-0008NW-V4 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:56:03 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LIu25M032200 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:56:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC1fm-0008NH-Ox for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:56:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA00404 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC1fj-0007bS-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:55:59 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC1fj-0007bP-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:55:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC1fk-0008Mc-Sw; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:56:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC1f5-0008Bh-CX for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:55:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA00385 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC1f2-0007ay-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:55:16 -0400 Received: from 216-43-25-66.ip.mcleodusa.net ([216.43.25.66] helo=episteme-software.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC1f1-0007aI-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:55:15 -0400 Received: from [216.43.25.67] (216.43.25.67) by episteme-software.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server X 3.2.3b1); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:54:53 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: resnick@resnick1.qualcomm.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora [Macintosh version 6.1a2] Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:54:43 -0500 To: Nathaniel Borenstein From: Pete Resnick Subject: Re: [lemonade] IMAP COMPOSE extension Cc: Lemonade Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On 10/21/03 at 10:58 AM -0400, Nathaniel Borenstein wrote: >I've been lurking on this topic without any dog in the hunt, but I >think I've been following things long enough to be willing to admit >to being totally confused. Why are we doing this in the first >place? It would be very helpful to me if someone could step back >and clearly [re-]state the problem we are trying to solve with IMAP >COMPOSE. That document describes the main problem. In summary, the basic problem we're trying to solve is, "How can I forward this huge message (or part of a message) that's on my IMAP server without having to download it to my client and re-upload it to my SMTP/submit server?" One part of that issue is (1) "How do I collect together the things I want to put in the outgoing message?" and the other is (2) "How do I get that outgoing message to my SMTP/submit server?". COMPOSE is designed to address question #1. pr -- Pete Resnick QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102 _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 19:28:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA18827 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC5v3-0007ZM-SM for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:28:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LNS5mU029083 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:28:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC5v3-0007Z0-LM for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:28:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA18788 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC5v2-0004px-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:28:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC5v1-0004pt-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:28:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC5uy-0007Wb-PQ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:28:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC5uX-0007KH-G7 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:27:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA18718 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:27:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC5uR-0004ok-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:27:27 -0400 Received: from mxout6.cac.washington.edu ([140.142.33.20]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC5uQ-0004of-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:27:26 -0400 Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.9]) by mxout6.cac.washington.edu (8.12.10+UW03.09/8.12.10+UW03.09) with ESMTP id h9LNRJ0Y027179; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:27:19 -0700 Received: from Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu [128.95.135.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.washington.edu (8.12.10+UW03.09/8.12.10+UW03.09) with ESMTP id h9LNRISS028075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:27:19 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:27:19 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: Mark Crispin To: Pete Resnick cc: Cyrus Daboo , Lemonade Subject: Re: [lemonade] Re: IMAP COMPOSE extension In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <2147483647.1066736125@[10.0.1.8]> Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Pete Resnick wrote: > On 10/21/03 at 11:35 AM -0400, Cyrus Daboo wrote: > The downside to expand is that you then have a message > with "expandable parts". That means that I can send you an > "unexpanded message" and perhaps invoke some unexpected shenanigans > in your server, perhaps getting it to expand things upon forwarding > my message that you didn't expect. Also, EXPAND makes this operation > depend on examining the internals of a message in the message store, > which is one of the things that Mark especially objected to earlier > with regard to other proposals. If the expansion is *NOT* done in the IMAP server, but instead in a SUBMIT server which obtains the pre-expanded message via URLFETCH, then there is nothing at all wrong with expand from the IMAP point of view. The only reason why any problem comes up is in the insistance of doing it in the IMAP server. > >Expand rather than compose would also make handling of those types > >of messages easier on the client-side. Often a user does not compose > >and send a message at the same time. They might 'partially' compose > >it, save it for later, then work on it again and send it out later. Indeed, if IMAP is used strictly as a place to leave drafts, with composition/expansion done elsewhere, this works very well. > >By not using the 'expand' option for APPEND until the final > >composition is done, the overhead of the expand/compose only occurs > >once during the lifetime of a draft message that gets > >saved/rewritten many times. > That makes it easier (overhead wise) on the server side, not the > client side. That means that you would have an explicit requirement that the server store the unexpanded form. And you have to have separate commands to fetch expanded and fetch unexpanded. Otherwise, the client will end up fetching the expanded version. > >Also, consider how to deal with such messages in disconnected mode. > >Again it would be much easier for a client to use the 'expand' > >method in disconnected mode as it could cache the complete > >unexpanded message and then sync that up to the server using > >append+expand. There are similar benefits if expand was a function of the submit server and not of the IMAP server. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum. _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 21:36:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22795 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:36:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC7v7-0003tW-O7 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:36:18 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9M1aHl8014967 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:36:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC7v7-0003tK-Ii for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:36:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22777 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC7us-0006B6-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:36:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC7us-0006B3-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:36:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC7us-0003mz-Gg; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:36:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC7uL-0003gd-N3 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:35:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22763 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC7uI-0006At-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:35:26 -0400 Received: from mxout1.cac.washington.edu ([140.142.32.134]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC7uI-0006Aq-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:35:26 -0400 Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.9]) by mxout1.cac.washington.edu (8.12.10+UW03.09/8.12.10+UW03.09) with ESMTP id h9M1ZNaZ017202; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:35:23 -0700 Received: from Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu [128.95.135.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.washington.edu (8.12.10+UW03.09/8.12.10+UW03.09) with ESMTP id h9M1ZMSS003237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:35:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:35:22 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: Mark Crispin To: Cyrus Daboo cc: Pete Resnick , Lemonade Subject: Re: [lemonade] Re: IMAP COMPOSE extension In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1066765094@[10.0.1.12]> Message-ID: References: <2147483647.1066736125@[10.0.1.8]> <2147483647.1066765094@[10.0.1.12]> Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Cyrus Daboo wrote: > The only problem with that is in dealing with the sent-mail copy, which the > user may or may not want to appear expanded on their IMAP server. The > submit/expand server would have to have the ability to do the sent-mail > copy too, or else the expand has to be on the IMAP server. That's a good point. I agree that a user may want his sent-mail to be either way (expanded or non-expanded), and that this is something that any message assembly mechanism (whether compose on an IMAP server, or expand on a submit server) must address. Fortunately, there are already mechanisms in place that a submit server can use to do this. Compose in IMAP does not have such mechanisms, although I guess that it would not be too difficult to add those. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum. _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 15:48:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26364 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD7v1-00029X-1T for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:48:20 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OJmJqB008269 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:48:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD7v0-00029I-Sw for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:48:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26354 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD7uv-0003JJ-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:48:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD7uv-0003JF-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:48:13 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD7uj-000263-8T; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:48:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD7ug-00025Q-0n for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:47:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26344 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:47:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD7ue-0003JA-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:47:56 -0400 Received: from ithilien.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.59]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD7ud-0003J7-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:47:55 -0400 Received: from magus.qualcomm.com (magus.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.148]) by ithilien.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id h9OJlp4t019139; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.13] (vpn-10-50-0-12.qualcomm.com [10.50.0.12]) by magus.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id h9OJllFB028568; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003f01c38c27$e4cc3ff0$3ce62a0f@nt23060> References: <003f01c38c27$e4cc3ff0$3ce62a0f@nt23060> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X v6.1a Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:47:15 -0700 To: "Madan Ganesh Velayudham" From: Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [lemonade] Comments on "IMAP Submit without Download Draft" Cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b25e Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sorry for the delay (I've been totally swamped and on constant travel for the past few weeks) At 10:05 PM +0530 10/6/03, Madan Ganesh Velayudham wrote: > Hello Gellens, > > I'm Madan from Hewlett-Packard, India. > > I'm new to this group. I went through your draft. > > I understand the defintion of Push and Pull > approach: > They differ in who initiates the content > transfer, whether it is server ( Push ) or > Message submission agent ( Pull ). The key difference is in which *server* performs the submission: the Submit server or the IMAP server. > > I seek/have few clarifications/recommendations on this draft. > > 1. In the section 4.2.1 IMAP pull overview, > > "The BURL extension should advertise what type of URLs it supports." > > I'm not sure how it would advertise. During EHLO > phase ? Pls clarify. Yes, that would be the likely method: the EHLO response would include BURL followed by a list of URI schemes perhaps including the domains that were trusted. The draft included an example of this: 250-BURL imap://trusted-host.example.com/ > > 2. Its also mentioned thatcommands BURL/GENURL/GETURL Command > would be added. I'm not clear about where these commands will be > added : in the SMTP extension or IMAP extension ? BURL would be an SMTP (actually, a Submission, not SMTP) extension. GENURL and GETURL would be IMAP extensions. > > 3. We may have a general command URL and arguments to URL command > would differentiate B/GEN/GET. This would be more generic. GENURL requires that the client be authenticated. GETURL does not require any authentication; the URL includes authorization. Hence it may be cleaner from a security point of view to keep these commands separate. BURL, as a Submit extension, is in a separate protocol and hence separate name space anyway. > > 4. In the draft, Push , Pull method are discussed seperately. Did > we think of combined version. I could not find the neccessity of > this combined version where the server would also push as well as > the message submission would pull the data from Server. We can > analyze the PushPull approach and document them also. My initial reaction to a combined mechanism would be that it would give us the negatives of each, plus adding multiple ways to accomplish the same thing. I don't see much point. Can you explain why this would be a good approach? > > I'm not sure whether these items were already discussed or not. If these > had already been discussed, could you please redirect to the point where > I can get gist of these itesm. > > Please let me know your comments. > > Thanks and Regards, > MG > > ************************** > Madan Ganesh Velayudham > madan-ganesh.v@hp.com > +91-80-205-3108 > ************************** > +HP/STSD/Internet Services > Bangalore, India > > Everything is possible -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly-selected tag: --------------- Any smoothly functioning technology will be indistinguishable from a rigged demo. --Isaac Asimov _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 26 17:16:47 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29865 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:16:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADtBV-0000mR-F6 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:16:29 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9QMGTFU002995 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:16:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADtBV-0000lz-4G for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:16:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29794 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:16:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADtBS-0001NS-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:16:26 -0500 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADtBR-0001Mf-01 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:16:25 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ADt5J-0004eo-8F for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:10:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADt5F-0000HL-UR; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:10:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADt59-0000GW-R5 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:09:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29615 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADt57-0001JK-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:09:53 -0500 Received: from ithilien.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.59]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADt56-0001JH-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:09:53 -0500 Received: from sabrina.qualcomm.com (sabrina.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.150]) by ithilien.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id h9QM9o4t026492 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:09:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.13] (vpn-10-50-0-13.qualcomm.com [10.50.0.13]) by sabrina.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id h9QM9l0O009429 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:09:48 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X v6.1a Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:09:19 -0800 To: lemonade@ietf.org From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b26 Subject: [lemonade] Updated Submit Draft Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I've sent in an updated submit draft. You can see it before it gets processed by the I-D editor at -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly-selected tag: --------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 26 20:08:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06942 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADvra-0006ce-M3 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9R186Ix025451 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADvra-0006cQ-52 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06928 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:07:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADvrY-0003oT-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADvrX-0003oO-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADvrV-0006aO-Ho; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AByXo-00040a-1G for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:35:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23624 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByXm-00056V-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:35:34 -0400 Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com ([63.163.82.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByXm-000569-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:35:34 -0400 Received: from socrates.cyrusoft.com (socrates.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.24]) (authenticated bits=0) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LFSmEG026967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:28:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:35:26 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Pete Resnick , Lemonade Message-ID: <2147483647.1066736125@[10.0.1.8]> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.0b8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [lemonade] Re: IMAP COMPOSE extension Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pete, --On Monday, October 20, 2003 17:08 -0500 Pete Resnick wrote: | However, I still have some issues with the exact nature of this command. | Specifically, my big question is how to deal with the "message part | identifiers". A message part identifier would clearly include a sequence | number or UID followed by message data item names or a macro, just like | FETCH. However, the downside to making it look exactly like the FETCH | parameters is that you can only compose a message made up of parts that | are contained in the currently selected mailbox. Maybe that is sufficient ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | given the application for which LEMONADE wants this, but it's clearly a | limitation. Note that APPEND does not require selected state - i.e. you can append to any mailbox not just the one that may be currently selected in that session. That's something we frequently do. In fact it can be desirable to do the APPEND in a background session so that it does not interfere with the user working on the mailbox in the foreground. i.e. you will almost certainly have to have a reference to a mailbox rather than be restricted to the currently selected one. What I would prefer to see here is something more like an 'expand' action rather than a 'compose' action (multiple items that are put together to form the final message) as you described. By that I mean the client submits a fully formed rfc2822 MIME message that uses message/external-body (or some new message/xxx type as appropriate) with URL (or a new 'IMAP' type) references and the server is then instructed to 'expand' the external references as it appends the message. If we did it that way, then a similar procedure could be easily used with SMTP submission to have an SMTP server do the 'expansion'. Expand rather than compose would also make handling of those types of messages easier on the client-side. Often a user does not compose and send a message at the same time. They might 'partially' compose it, save it for later, then work on it again and send it out later. By not using the 'expand' option for APPEND until the final composition is done, the overhead of the expand/compose only occurs once during the lifetime of a draft message that gets saved/rewritten many times. Also, consider how to deal with such messages in disconnected mode. Again it would be much easier for a client to use the 'expand' method in disconnected mode as it could cache the complete unexpanded message and then sync that up to the server using append+expand. That would be harder to do using 'compose' as the disconnected client would have to keep track of the separate elements of the compose message items whilst disconnected. -- Cyrus Daboo _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 26 20:08:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06945 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADvrb-0006dB-1n for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9R1877v025483 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADvra-0006cd-M3 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06931 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:07:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADvrY-0003oW-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADvrX-0003oP-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADvrV-0006aW-OR; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC64p-0002V3-JN for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:38:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19151 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC64n-0004xf-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:38:09 -0400 Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com ([63.163.82.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC64m-0004xc-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:38:09 -0400 Received: from [10.0.1.12] (pool-151-201-234-166.pitt.east.verizon.net [151.201.234.166]) (authenticated bits=0) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LNVXEG000968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:31:36 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:38:14 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Mark Crispin , Pete Resnick cc: Lemonade Subject: Re: [lemonade] Re: IMAP COMPOSE extension Message-ID: <2147483647.1066765094@[10.0.1.12]> In-Reply-To: References: <2147483647.1066736125@[10.0.1.8]> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.0b8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mark, --On Tuesday, October 21, 2003 16:27 -0700 Mark Crispin wrote: |> > Also, consider how to deal with such messages in disconnected mode. |> > Again it would be much easier for a client to use the 'expand' |> > method in disconnected mode as it could cache the complete |> > unexpanded message and then sync that up to the server using |> > append+expand. | | There are similar benefits if expand was a function of the submit server | and not of the IMAP server. The only problem with that is in dealing with the sent-mail copy, which the user may or may not want to appear expanded on their IMAP server. The submit/expand server would have to have the ability to do the sent-mail copy too, or else the expand has to be on the IMAP server. -- Cyrus Daboo _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 26 20:08:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06975 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADvra-0006cw-Tw for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9R186YK025468 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADvra-0006ch-Nq for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06933 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:07:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADvrY-0003oa-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADvrX-0003oQ-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADvrW-0006aq-0Q; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADqzK-0007yy-QD for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:55:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA25682; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADqzH-0000DX-00; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:55:43 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADqzH-0000DE-00; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:55:43 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Oct 2003 20:53:10 +0100 Received: from xbe-ams-312.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9QJt4l0006339; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:55:04 +0100 (MET) Received: from xfe-ams-311.cisco.com ([144.254.228.204]) by xbe-ams-312.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:55:11 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([144.254.74.55]) by xfe-ams-311.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:55:10 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: <4CD48AD0-07EE-11D8-9C47-000A959CF516@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Pete Resnick , Ted Hardie , Ned Freed From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:55:08 +0100 To: ietf-imaa@imc.org, idn@ops.ietf.org, ietf-822@imc.org, ietf@ietf.org, ietf-pop3ext@imc.org, lemonade@ietf.org, discuss@apps.ietf.org, ietf-imapext@imc.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2003 19:55:10.0612 (UTC) FILETIME=[101FC540:01C39BFB] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [lemonade] FYI: BOF on Internationalized Email Addresses (IEA) Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At the IETF in Minneapolis, there will be a BOF on Internationalized=20 Email Addresses (IEA). It is *preliminary* on the agenda on Monday, November 10, 2003 at=20 1530-1730. Chairs: Pete Resnick, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m Mailing list:imaa@imc.org (other salient lists include uri@w3.org) Agenda: Agenda Bashing (Chairs) 5 min. Topic Introduction (Chairs) 10 min. Proposals IDNA-Based (Paul Hoffman) 15 min. Infrastructure-Based (John Klensin) 15 min. IRI-Based (Michel Suignard) 15 min. Discussion 60 min. Topics for discussion: Are there other solutions which have been specified? The solutions present the problem at different scopes; Where should the IETF tackle it? Are some short-term, and other long-term? Can the solutions be staged or co-exist? If staged, how to migrate from one to another? What are the next steps for the IETF? NB: This BoF is exploratory in nature, and it is not intended that the=20= IETF will finalize a decision in this venue. It was proposed to foster=20= a community discussion, not charter a working group or pick a winner.=20 If further work is required, step one would be identifying individuals=20= willing to carry that work forward. Reading material: draft-hoffman-imaa-03.txt draft-klensin-emailaddr-i18n-01.txt draft-duerst-iri-04.txt Pete and myself hope people will come with a lot of constructive=20 comments and ideas. Patrik, co-chair of the bof _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 26 20:33:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA07412 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:33:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADwFn-00084v-F9 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:33:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9R1X7hI031047 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:33:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADwFn-00084g-A9 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:33:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA07401 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:32:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADwFh-00044p-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:33:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADwFh-00044m-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:33:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADwFh-00083H-2A; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:33:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADwEk-0007wk-Sp for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:32:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA07390 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:31:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADwEi-00044C-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:32:00 -0500 Received: from goalie.snowshore.com ([216.57.133.4] helo=webshield.office.snowshore.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADwEi-000449-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:32:00 -0500 Received: from zoe.office.snowshore.com(192.168.1.172) by webshield.office.snowshore.com via csmap id 13787; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:39:21 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:31:30 -0500 Message-ID: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F688D@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Thread-Topic: Headcount Time Thread-Index: AcOcKgK39MpCLkyXSyi40gy06EKAmA== From: "Eric Burger" To: "IETF LEMONADE (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [lemonade] Headcount Time Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are you going to Minneapolis? If so, drop me a PRIVATE line. I'd like = to get a preliminary headcount and participant list to help me with the = agenda. If you have something in particular you want to discuss, like how easy = it would be to extend IMAP for submit or how it would be the end of = civilization as we know it if we extended IMAP for submit, please drop = me a line (AGAIN, PRIVATELY). -- - Eric Co-Chair _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 12:44:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27153 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:44:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBPS-0003im-1f for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:44:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RHi6wG014300 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:44:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBPR-0003iZ-T2 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:44:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27142 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:43:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBPQ-00014b-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:44:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBPQ-00014Y-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:44:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBPN-0003ha-Gk; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:44:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBOa-0003c3-M2 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:43:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27110 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:42:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBOY-00014A-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:43:10 -0500 Received: from palrel10.hp.com ([156.153.255.245]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBOX-00013u-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:43:09 -0500 Received: from iconsrv5.india.hp.com (iconsrv5.india.hp.com [15.42.229.13]) by palrel10.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC3C1C015EA; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nt23060 (nt23060.india.hp.com [15.42.230.60]) by iconsrv5.india.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id XAA22561; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:11:51 +0530 (IST) From: "Madan Ganesh Velayudham" To: , , Cc: "'Madan Ganesh Velayudham'" Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:13:05 +0530 Organization: Hewlett-Packard STSD Message-ID: <001e01c39cb1$c6e2c280$3ce62a0f@nt23060> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C39CDF.E09AFE80" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [lemonade] Deliver-qmails-ondemand Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C39CDF.E09AFE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I could not complete my draft well before the 58th IETF deadline. I thought I would send the overview and seek your comments. Please share your comments on the attached draft. Thanks and Regards, MG ************************** Madan Ganesh Velayudham madan-ganesh.v@hp.com +91-80-205-3108 ************************** +HP/STSD/Internet Services Bangalore, India Everything is possible ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C39CDF.E09AFE80 Content-Type: text/plain; name="deliver-qmails-ondemand.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="deliver-qmails-ondemand.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Delivering queued mails on Demand =09 Overview : When a mail cannot be sent, the mail is queued for future delivery. In = most of the mail server, the server periodically dispatches all of its = mails. After an attempt, the mails will be put back to the queue and = will be dispatched after the queue timeout period. That is, there is a = delay in attempting the next delivery attempt. This could call for an mechanism by which the neighbour SMTP servers can = invite or inform the mail server that it has come online and ready to = receive/relay mails. Solution : When a SMTP server comes up, it could send an INVITE command to its = neighbour SMTP servers inviting that they can dispatch mails addressed = to this SMTP server.=20 250-INVITE If neighbour SMTP server does not recognize the INVITE command, it would = return 5xx return code. The sending SMTP server can ignore the reply. The SMTP servers that can understand and allow INVITE command, can start = dispatching mails addressed to the SMTP server, issued INVITE. Issues/Security Considerations : This draft would discuss about identifying neighbour SMTP servers, could = be through the site's MX records. This might introduce denial of service or some related issues. The draft = would analyze all the issues and solutions. 27-Oct-2003 Madan Ganesh V Hewlett-Packard madan-ganesh.v@hp.com ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C39CDF.E09AFE80-- _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 12:51:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27379 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:51:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBWC-0004Hr-2m for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:51:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RHp41D016473 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:51:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBWB-0004Hc-Ua for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:51:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27362 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:50:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBWA-00018v-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:51:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBW9-00018s-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:51:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBWA-0004G4-FT; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:51:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBVf-0004DP-N1 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:50:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27341 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:50:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBVd-00018W-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:50:30 -0500 Received: from palrel11.hp.com ([156.153.255.246]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBVd-00018T-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:50:29 -0500 Received: from iconsrv5.india.hp.com (iconsrv5.india.hp.com [15.42.229.13]) by palrel11.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4B31C0168A; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:50:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nt23060 (nt23060.india.hp.com [15.42.230.60]) by iconsrv5.india.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id XAA22966; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:19:16 +0530 (IST) From: "Madan Ganesh Velayudham" To: "'Randall Gellens'" Cc: Subject: RE: [lemonade] Comments on "IMAP Submit without Download Draft" Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:20:29 +0530 Organization: Hewlett-Packard STSD Message-ID: <002b01c39cb2$cfa20740$3ce62a0f@nt23060> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gellens, Thanks for your detailed response. In India, this week was a festival week. > The key difference is in which *server* performs the submission: the > Submit server or the IMAP server. I understand now better. > > > > > I seek/have few clarifications/recommendations on this draft. > > > > 1. In the section 4.2.1 IMAP pull overview, > > > > "The BURL extension should advertise what type of URLs it > > supports." > > > > I'm not sure how it would advertise. During EHLO > > phase ? Pls clarify. > > Yes, that would be the likely method: the EHLO response would include > BURL followed by a list of URI schemes perhaps including the domains > that were trusted. The draft included an example of this: > 250-BURL imap://trusted-host.example.com/ > Thanks for the clarification. > > > > 2. Its also mentioned thatcommands BURL/GENURL/GETURL Command > > would be added. I'm not clear about where these commands will be > > added : in the SMTP extension or IMAP extension ? > > BURL would be an SMTP (actually, a Submission, not SMTP) > extension. GENURL and GETURL would be IMAP extensions. > > > > > 3. We may have a general command URL and arguments to URL command > > would differentiate B/GEN/GET. This would be more generic. > > GENURL requires that the client be authenticated. > GETURL does not require any authentication; the URL includes > authorization. Hence it may be cleaner from a security point of view > to keep these commands separate. BURL, as a Submit extension, is in > a separate protocol and hence separate name space anyway. Now, I clearly feel the difference. > > > > > 4. In the draft, Push , Pull method are discussed seperately. Did > > we think of combined version. I could not find the neccessity of > > this combined version where the server would also push > as well as > > the message submission would pull the data from Server. We can > > analyze the PushPull approach and document them also. > > My initial reaction to a combined mechanism would be that it would > give us the negatives of each, plus adding multiple ways to > accomplish the same thing. I don't see much point. Can you explain > why this would be a good approach? My initial assumption on this was the each of them share their advantages. Now I will have rethink about it and let you know ASAP. +MG > > > > > I'm not sure whether these items were already discussed or not. If > > these had already been discussed, could you please redirect to the > > point where I can get gist of these itesm. > > > > Please let me know your comments. > > > > Thanks and Regards, > > MG > > > > ************************** > > Madan Ganesh Velayudham > > madan-ganesh.v@hp.com > > +91-80-205-3108 > > ************************** > > +HP/STSD/Internet Services > > Bangalore, India > > > > Everything is possible > > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for > myself only > -------------- Randomly-selected tag: --------------- > Any smoothly functioning technology will be > indistinguishable from a rigged demo. --Isaac Asimov > _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 13:01:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27685 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:01:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBfs-0004zZ-3F for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:01:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RI14qG019183 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:01:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBfr-0004zD-UZ for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:01:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27646 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:00:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBfq-0001FT-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:01:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBfp-0001FQ-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:01:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBfp-0004xK-Pj; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:01:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBfS-0004vR-Nr for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:00:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27634 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:00:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBfQ-0001FC-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:00:37 -0500 Received: from libertango.oryx.com ([195.30.94.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBfQ-0001F9-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:00:36 -0500 Message-Id: From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: Madan Ganesh Velayudham Subject: Re: [lemonade] Deliver-qmails-ondemand Cc: "IETF LEMONADE (E-mail)" , ietf-imapext-request@imc.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org References: <001e01c39cb1$c6e2c280$3ce62a0f@nt23060> In-Reply-To: <001e01c39cb1$c6e2c280$3ce62a0f@nt23060> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:04:20 +0100 Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I believe you'll find RFC 1985 interesting. --Arnt _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 09:30:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09154 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:30:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AErKq-0004Wy-NE for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:30:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9TEU8l4017415 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:30:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AErKq-0004Wo-Iy for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:30:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09151 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:29:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AErKo-0001fD-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:30:06 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AErKo-0001f6-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:30:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AErKj-0004Ur-4U; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:30:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AErKG-0004Rp-Lq for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:29:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09134 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:29:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AErKE-0001dc-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:29:30 -0500 Received: from comversegw.icomverse.com ([192.118.48.248] helo=il-tlv-smtpout2.icomverse.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AErKE-0001dY-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:29:30 -0500 Received: from il-tlv-mbdg2.comverse.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by il-tlv-smtpout2.icomverse.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9TETBk03745; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:29:11 +0200 Received: by il-tlv-mbdg2.comverse.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:29:19 +0200 Message-ID: <32B823C1CD4FD5119C0D0002A560F78E0BF6CEA3@ismail3.comverse.com> From: Decktor Gev To: "'lemonade@ietf.org'" Cc: "'Eric Burger'" , Rapaport Orly Subject: [lemonade] server to server notification protocol requirements dr aft Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:29:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C39E29.08806BAC" Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39E29.08806BAC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Hi all, As indicated in the Lemonade charter - please find my submission for the server to server notification protocol requirements at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-decktor-s2s-notif-00.txt Please share your comments on it. Regards, Gev Decktor gev.decktor@comverse.com +972-3-765-5174 +972-58-54-5174 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39E29.08806BAC Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [lemonade] server to server notification protocol requirements = draft

Hi all,

As indicated in the Lemonade charter - please find my = submission for the server to server notification protocol requirements = at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-decktor-s2s-= notif-00.txt

Please share your comments on it.


Regards,

Gev Decktor
gev.decktor@comverse.com
+972-3-765-5174
+972-58-54-5174

------_=_NextPart_001_01C39E29.08806BAC-- _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 10:25:15 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13254 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:25:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEsBs-0004KU-Lx for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:56 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9TFOusV016641 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:56 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEsBs-0004KJ-I5 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12978 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEsBp-0002eg-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:53 -0500 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEsAy-0002WE-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEs3N-0007W9-GR for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:16:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEs3H-0002XQ-5W; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:16:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEE7p-0007Kg-UM for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:38:05 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08217; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:37:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200310272037.PAA08217@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: lemonade@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:37:52 -0500 Subject: [lemonade] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-lemonade-goals-01.txt Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service environments Working Group of the IETF. Title : Goals for Internet Messaging to Support Diverse Service Environments Author(s) : J. Wong Filename : draft-ietf-lemonade-goals-01.txt Pages : 34 Date : 2003-10-27 The mission of LEMONADE -- Internet Messaging to support diverse service environments -- is to provide a set of enhancements and profiles to Internet email to facilitate operation on platforms with constrained resources, or communications links with high latency or limited bandwidth. The enhanced mail service must continue to support conventional environments seamlessly. The primary driver for this effort is, by making Internet mail protocols richer and more media and environment-savvy, to allow their use over the mobile Internet. Stressing the needs of wireless handheld devices, a discussion is given of what is required of Internet messaging protocols to enable the support of multimedia messaging on limited capability messaging clients in diverse service environments. Also included is a list of general principles to guide the design of the enhanced messaging protocols. Finally, some issues around providing seamless service between enhanced Internet email and the existing separate mobile messaging infrastructure are briefly listed. Discussion of this and related drafts are on the LEMONADE WG email list. To subscribe, send the message 'subscribe' to lemonade-request@ietf.org. The public archive is in the directory at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mailing-lists/lemonade/ A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-lemonade-goals-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-lemonade-goals-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-lemonade-goals-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-27155529.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-lemonade-goals-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-lemonade-goals-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-27155529.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 10:25:17 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13274 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEsBu-0004LZ-3K for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:58 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9TFOwQY016703 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:58 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEsBt-0004L1-Ge for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12987 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEsBq-0002eq-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:54 -0500 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEsAy-0002Ux-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEs3N-0007WB-4B for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:16:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEs3H-0002Xf-Cp; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:16:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEE85-0007Tv-Af for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:38:21 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08245; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:38:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200310272038.PAA08245@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: lemonade@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:38:09 -0500 Subject: [lemonade] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-lemonade-submit-01.txt Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service environments Working Group of the IETF. Title : IMAP Submit Without Download Author(s) : R. Gellens Filename : draft-ietf-lemonade-submit-01.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2003-10-27 IMAP clients operating over low-bandwidth or high-latency links, such as cellular telephones, need to be able to submit mail messages containing all or part of previously-received IMAP messages. Clients need to be able to do this without sloshing the bits both ways, that is, without being forced to download IMAP messages solely to be able to upload the content in a submitted message. This document currently identifies the two main approaches to doing this (called 'IMAP push' and 'IMAP pull'), one which adds submission to IMAP, and another which adds the expansion of IMAP references to message submission. This version of the document attempts to lay out the protocol mechanisms along with associated trade-offs and security considerations of each. Once a decision has been made to go with a particular technique, this document will describe the specifics of that choice as a standards-track proposal. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-lemonade-submit-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-lemonade-submit-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-lemonade-submit-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-27155547.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-lemonade-submit-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-lemonade-submit-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-27155547.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 10:25:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13321 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:25:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEsC4-0004Pg-Qf for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:25:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9TFP886016958 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:25:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEsC4-0004PQ-AZ for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:25:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13118 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEsBy-0002gZ-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:25:02 -0500 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEsB3-0002W8-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:24:05 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEs3S-0007WA-PM for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:16:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEs3I-0002ZL-UO; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:16:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEfKi-000791-Fb for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:41:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA15663; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:41:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEfKf-0005dR-00; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:41:09 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEfKf-0005dN-00; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:41:09 -0500 Received: from [63.202.92.152] (adsl-66-125-125-69.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [66.125.125.69]) (authenticated bits=0) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9T1f6I8016895; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:41:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: phoffman@mail.imc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:41:55 -0800 To: Margaret.Wasserman@nokia.com, , , , , , , , , From: Paul Hoffman / IMC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [lemonade] Location of the IMAA list (was: RE: FYI: BOF on Internationalized Email Addresses (IEA)) Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 11:54 AM -0500 10/28/03, Margaret.Wasserman@nokia.com wrote: >The BOF description lists imaa@imc.org as the >discussion list, but this discussion is being >cc:ed to ietf-imaa@imc.org. I'd suggest that you >move this discussion to whichever of those lists >is actually correct. It is ietf-imaa@imc.org, although because Patrik sent out the wrong address, I have made sure that both addresses work. An archive of the list, and links to the current versions of the drafts, can be found at . No more messages to all lists: that's what the IMAA list is for. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 12:18:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20832 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:18:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtxX-0003M3-11 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:18:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9THIEAK012884 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:18:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtxW-0003Lg-Ft for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:18:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20726 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:18:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtxU-0005ck-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:18:13 -0500 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtxU-0005aw-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:18:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEtuS-0003Zq-GH for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:15:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtuQ-000321-Tf; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:15:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEttc-0002x7-3I for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:14:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19861 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:14:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtta-0005IC-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:14:10 -0500 Received: from 216-43-25-66.ip.mcleodusa.net ([216.43.25.66] helo=episteme-software.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtta-0005FH-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:14:10 -0500 Received: from [216.43.25.67] (216.43.25.67) by episteme-software.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server X 3.2.3b1); Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:13:38 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: resnick@resnick1.qualcomm.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F68A8@zoe.office.snowshore.com> References: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F68A8@zoe.office.snowshore.com> X-Mailer: Eudora [Macintosh version 6.1a2] Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:13:36 -0600 To: "Eric Burger" From: Pete Resnick Subject: Re: [lemonade] Discussion about IEA BOF Cc: "IETF LEMONADE (E-mail)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On 10/29/03 at 12:09 PM -0500, Eric Burger wrote: >If you wish to follow the discussion, please go to the appropriate >list. It looks like it was cross-posted to: > >ietf-imaa@imc.org As co-chair of the BOF: Please use ietf-imaa@imc.org if you wish to participate in this discussion. pr -- Pete Resnick QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102 _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 12:30:04 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21984 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:30:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEu8f-0004b9-TD for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:45 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9THTjKu017669 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:45 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEu8f-0004au-OJ for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21911 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEu8e-00062f-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:44 -0500 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtxZ-0005aw-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:18:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEtqb-0003MR-1Y for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:11:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtqX-0002fN-Sg; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:11:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtpz-0002TM-6b for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:10:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19612 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:10:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtpx-0005Bb-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:10:25 -0500 Received: from goalie.snowshore.com ([216.57.133.4] helo=webshield.office.snowshore.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtpx-0005B4-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:10:25 -0500 Received: from zoe.office.snowshore.com(192.168.1.172) by webshield.office.snowshore.com via csmap id 22722; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:17:36 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:09:52 -0500 Message-ID: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F68A8@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Thread-Topic: Discussion about IEA BOF Thread-Index: AcOeL5AshFhpCwdFTM6Rvwdhe5DzBg== From: "Eric Burger" To: "IETF LEMONADE (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [lemonade] Discussion about IEA BOF Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There were a bunch of messages cross-posited everywhere. Since it is clear that the discussion went on without lemonade = discussion, I discarded the messages. If you wish to follow the discussion, please go to the appropriate list. = It looks like it was cross-posted to: ietf-imaa@imc.org, idn@ops.ietf.org, ietf-822@imc.org, ietf@ietf.org, = ietf-pop3ext@imc.org, lemonade@ietf.org, discuss@apps.ietf.org, = ietf-imapext@imc.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 12:30:06 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21999 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:30:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEu8h-0004bX-Ld for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:47 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9THTlY3017693 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEu8h-0004bI-Gs for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21924 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEu8g-00063A-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:46 -0500 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtxa-0005aw-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:18:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEtoc-0003Jn-Ba for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:09:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtoa-0002D6-IT; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:09:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtnf-000252-A0 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:08:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19541 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:07:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtnd-00059M-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:08:01 -0500 Received: from libertango.oryx.com ([195.30.94.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtnd-00059I-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:08:01 -0500 Message-Id: From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: "IETF LEMONADE (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [lemonade] Re: IMAP COMPOSE extension References: <2147483647.1066736125@[10.0.1.8]> <2147483647.1066765094@[10.0.1.12]> In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1066765094@[10.0.1.12]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:11:54 +0100 Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cyrus Daboo writes: > The only problem with that is in dealing with the sent-mail copy, > which the user may or may not want to appear expanded on their IMAP > server. The submit/expand server would have to have the ability to do > the sent-mail copy too, or else the expand has to be on the IMAP > server. Not necessarily. The client can tell the submit server "here, expand and deliver to these addresse" and subsequently "here, deliver to me". There's a window in which things may go wrong, between the ends of the two DATA commands. But the added complexity to handle one DATA command in two ways also offers scope for problems. Also, sending twice wastes some bandwidth. Not much. The reason it's not much is that submit/expand is being used. --Arnt _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade