From nobody Sat Jan 3 12:00:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0760D1A000F for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2015 12:00:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wgi4EHHCxu3P for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2015 12:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9F3E1A0053 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2015 12:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (50-1-98-91.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.98.91]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id t03K0WRW060699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 3 Jan 2015 13:00:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 50-1-98-91.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.98.91] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) Subject: Re: NEW RELATION - convertedfrom From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 12:00:32 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20468E0C-4F1C-42E2-98E7-368B7FDEED06@vpnc.org> <46EA0E94-835E-4F90-AA72-E44DE505D359@vpnc.org> <534C22F2-FAEF-4C7A-B0A8-D3A7821BFDA4@vpnc.org> <7866D053-9F9E-47F7-AF9D-E2E5898B9012@mnot.net> To: Herbert Van de Sompel X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/link-relations/uWlHxC5yOHS2Xhfbzp2xWiE1D2M Cc: Mark Nottingham , link-relations X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2015 20:00:37 -0000 On Dec 18, 2014, at 7:55 PM, Herbert Van de Sompel = wrote: >=20 > On Dec 18, 2014, at 20:05, Paul Hoffman wrote: >>=20 >>> On Dec 18, 2014, at 3:44 PM, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>>=20 >>> If you feel that you need to have a more precise relation defined, = please do -- but make it precise enough so that it doesn't make people = yet more unsure of which relation to use.=20 >>=20 >> I believe my proposed value (convertedfrom) and the description = ("refers to a source from which this material was converted") is = precise, and differentiates well from "alternate". >=20 > And I would like to repeat my proposal to name the rel type = derivedfrom to align with the W3C PROV notion of derivation. Which is = really appropriate in this case, I think. If using "derivedFrom" will make people happier than "convertedFrom", = I'm OK with changing the name. mnot: Do I need to do a new registration and somehow abandon this one, = or can you handle this on your own? --Paul Hoffman= From nobody Fri Jan 9 11:07:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9522A1ABC75 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:07:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NicHHz0RF76i for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:07:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from proper.com (Opus1.Proper.COM [207.182.41.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30ACD1A8A92 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:07:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (50-1-98-91.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.98.91]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.15.1/8.14.7) with ESMTPSA id t09J7f5r050394 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 12:07:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 50-1-98-91.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.98.91] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: NEW RELATION - derivedfrom Message-Id: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:07:41 -0800 To: link-relations@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 19:07:48 -0000 Relation Name: derivedfrom Description: The target IRI points to a resource from which this = material was derived. Reference: draft-hoffman-xml2rfc Notes: n/a Application Data: n/a From nobody Fri Jan 9 11:21:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 108591A9240 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:21:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PuLsYpBB3X0p for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxout-07.mxes.net (mxout-07.mxes.net [216.86.168.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE61B1A8A4E for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:21:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.30.59.68] (unknown [207.239.41.30]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8833522E25F; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 14:21:45 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) Subject: Re: NEW RELATION - derivedfrom From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 14:21:43 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org> To: Paul Hoffman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: Cc: link-relations X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 19:21:49 -0000 Looks good to me; anyone else have comments? > On 9 Jan 2015, at 2:07 pm, Paul Hoffman wrote: >=20 > Relation Name: derivedfrom >=20 > Description: The target IRI points to a resource from which this = material was derived. >=20 > Reference: draft-hoffman-xml2rfc >=20 > Notes: n/a >=20 > Application Data: n/a >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > link-relations mailing list > link-relations@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/link-relations -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Fri Jan 9 11:34:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B46F91A01A8 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:34:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.664 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.664 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fEB8jpxhflng for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:34:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from gong.birdhouse.org (gong.birdhouse.org [207.58.180.215]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F029C1A0086 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:34:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mobile-166-171-251-132.mycingular.net ([166.171.251.132]:49759 helo=[10.97.237.54]) by gong.birdhouse.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Y9fKN-00075a-F0; Fri, 09 Jan 2015 11:34:36 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: NEW RELATION - derivedfrom From: Erik Wilde X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12B440) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:34:33 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org> To: link-relations X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gong.birdhouse.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - berkeley.edu X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: gong.birdhouse.org: authenticated_id: birdhouse@dret.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Cc: Mark Nottingham , Paul Hoffman X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 19:34:40 -0000 hello. > On Jan 9, 2015, at 11:21, Mark Nottingham wrote: > Looks good to me; anyone else have comments? >> On 9 Jan 2015, at 2:07 pm, Paul Hoffman wrote: >> Relation Name: derivedfrom >> Description: The target IRI points to a resource from which this material= was derived. one quick question, maybe just for clarification (or maybe worth a note in t= he registration/definition): we are interested in using this for n:1 relations between resources, where p= ossibly many inputs are used to generate one output (think of it as an aggre= gation/reporting step). thus we would have several derivedfrom links in the o= utput resource, linking to all the inputs. that would still be an appropriat= e use of the proposed relation, right? thanks and cheers, dret.= From nobody Fri Jan 9 11:36:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925651A01A8 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:36:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OlE-bT89Ri0D for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yh0-x233.google.com (mail-yh0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A99501A8AE4 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:36:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yh0-f51.google.com with SMTP id a41so5010858yho.10 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2015 11:36:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=aam9sV+PEAZ2PMe6rGUWqfCSAw/BHLimw3ViM934jFk=; b=tvKb05NT9O/d84ePGClbx1mqtuWtzUXaTrf+sHChJrYX9XdUkZE/lP74uJ8GdyiJ/B U23BbMA4a+SrSBua3fO/fshSWUEfptMiK7PvKUCAXrQKpbVz3i4ANpCedbXkLxx736rh Z54kBqJHpGPn3hpQo9bdPyVFPdeV5FfVDpwM8hgJzLgaPA8BvBSkIQHSIJlG7T+TDhAb ktKea2epKZo7Nl0IWtGA6PzqIxz/iBI6IO6/N8JDlhHJYCMkJqEOakAMYvVnJuo0lni2 yj0l8kARFOA9gh57kHm027AAwVxcQ05IMRdHxEuni/hrHd5FNOeaCdZgWor11xmIZ0Y3 TCeA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.13.8 with SMTP id a8mr12567428yha.84.1420832178919; Fri, 09 Jan 2015 11:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.172.65 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:36:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org> References: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 12:36:18 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: NEW RELATION - derivedfrom From: Herbert Van de Sompel To: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: link-relations X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 19:36:21 -0000 On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > Relation Name: derivedfrom > Thanks for that! Herbert > Description: The target IRI points to a resource from which this material was derived. > > Reference: draft-hoffman-xml2rfc > > Notes: n/a > > Application Data: n/a > > > _______________________________________________ > link-relations mailing list > link-relations@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/link-relations -- Herbert Van de Sompel Digital Library Research & Prototyping Los Alamos National Laboratory, Research Library http://public.lanl.gov/herbertv/ == From nobody Fri Jan 9 11:41:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F8781A8BC3 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:41:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.347 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.347 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y5-33X4GdnTq for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:41:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from proper.com (Opus1.Proper.COM [207.182.41.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09CF61A0086 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:41:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (50-1-98-91.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.98.91]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.15.1/8.14.7) with ESMTPSA id t09JevTe053019 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 9 Jan 2015 12:40:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 50-1-98-91.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.98.91] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) Subject: Re: NEW RELATION - derivedfrom From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:40:57 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org> To: Erik Wilde X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: Cc: Mark Nottingham , link-relations X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 19:41:02 -0000 On Jan 9, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Erik Wilde wrote: >> On Jan 9, 2015, at 11:21, Mark Nottingham wrote: >> Looks good to me; anyone else have comments? >>> On 9 Jan 2015, at 2:07 pm, Paul Hoffman = wrote: >>> Relation Name: derivedfrom >>> Description: The target IRI points to a resource from which this = material was derived. >=20 > one quick question, maybe just for clarification (or maybe worth a = note in the registration/definition): >=20 > we are interested in using this for n:1 relations between resources, = where possibly many inputs are used to generate one output (think of it = as an aggregation/reporting step). thus we would have several = derivedfrom links in the output resource, linking to all the inputs. = that would still be an appropriate use of the proposed relation, right? I would certainly think so. It says "a resource", not "the resource". --Paul Hoffman= From nobody Fri Jan 9 11:47:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 443361A0084 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:47:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.787 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.787 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_38=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xSS48qziZUQ0 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:47:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nm6-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm6-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EF921A006C for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:47:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1420832843; bh=V2pxBCO6XoX7nmvwgpvGKtlWJ5aLFouCw6jcyyXLl1g=; h=In-Reply-To:References:From:Date:Subject:To:Cc:From:Subject; b=sqcNjXmF8dooke/cySnNFqaKTR1yBX2vyT+sHkKgkIN0rjeWIgxVtn+rq2oR52FgEZcNjNHEOLtnet46/ZLVWxMbmWTPRZSTMr3DTxVqJPOV+BVOGn7es4yrSsV8mB+wvU/cxJqe5lwm2PydLWtCMAtLkII7qs5b65TX49ZRIwGNxgDrah+EREWu+IAZMY9ih45zujwwuLIfu1MNMVGfD8wpF5IaJt9VpcSPRi5bXLuDHcH4osmSyGu0zR4AzaF8FzbnuY5i0rbwilkdZjtYe7UZJ9DZJhDVUv2A+jOijLH3SFsbzQqqktRTizQ4iq153hJ3zeOtIxHMlPSMzB6spw== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s2048; d=yahoo.com; b=bD3MIfmOSrIVOO0U+51oG6qkmPOj0Ow5/ZUZjeANX1tg2luV/ru1mUO10Hzcb3sDIPsBpJFDnK2zm/PYVzIx7C5YVJpWbnSDGOISUsuHZulHx3GJ0+5gLBTgRpvdhu2MHv/QNsnUNf1ltmnsibz8FqAiVQEqDdRS9v5uzDLu+Kss5XzihAQzxI7TtTXbw6qiqo44y3KjlkPGu03XXo5nr0CmzvLeAipZNSaSsiEH/0ypPmIY5+Il6nXnruLARr70GCNiM23WV8k49HkyhbcBkKgX0LnjHdfeH98MY19mWnbyUhzT1g5j+BdgeFpT65hz7+sDg76nQF4EThrOLkoPWw==; Received: from [98.138.100.115] by nm6.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2015 19:47:23 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.61] by tm106.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2015 19:47:23 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp212.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2015 19:47:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 550196.84442.bm@smtp212.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: BeG99cEVM1kfJ2v7K2o5LPkE8qho1PdUyKR3U1vUD7_DU6r CRsEJgFDpSuWadDxflwru1iVG8m0zni32md4hLF7QHf5bjCCUIJ1tGLgQjzA XXoG.QaNx901eMSVYBh_EpruIoQ6O6N.TAodBHHO6GYHEe0330kQKBnAAPCP Y1UU7gS1fyqtG7MFd65F4WRmI9cFSaQCTp0KRW21bApKPauRUITpgEFlHLYl 9kecK0rW0tZ_0vTOV5xR.kv4H5ev3h7Yoxv0UZ.pTmgox93YsIXRN9HGRH6Z ChSULDiXOSi7KpEHMK77HDshxijrwy6YSgo42hPQo_XgVejQeI0G3hz8IKij 1udfJQF0ZoLGZLgy3Py3SuPbn67d61hTELImTgQ19H4zJ3erlzhr5XLZ5Pqv 3YJZB1u8.8xQja446i3v_TSlHn6uHbLZJeBVJ47Z25cuD.D4ii7d6uCtwQJR gNXVqiodwjezHBXSPfu6c.Rf3FgsocqZRTmwZdgxa9_JZHq58kd_XESl8aJN EVm5BsfwmzHW7Q55.DQW3XOvadNmt879.CXfotdPTOQEBXjbMHWh3OwYT1eV 8h2OlDM2.OSbQ7GSf3ChP5VoDfq0R8dK5cRWZFjUeZgelXKsbRZjSZuCPjJ5 B1QXjwHCc1qTS5zXd7_6w8ij671rFfWhExahZYe5wu5s_kfITWJVahb2ak30 fiLHyIL0pGZJ5z8anN9.do1bdYR8tsjk3FbkFZRQbP6engTs5k198gB56nYS ZpfpS3qDRhKN6 X-Yahoo-SMTP: i12ABOmswBAkPG1PnjmsmmFRWA-- Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id w7so10113127lbi.2 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2015 11:47:21 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnKDKczJBtC+Oaz1aejmjGafa9maWd/hiL9Yzqx9y2Z37GCx6h+8EHoZynSKuC043TI+0H3 X-Received: by 10.112.85.11 with SMTP id d11mr23432748lbz.100.1420832841551; Fri, 09 Jan 2015 11:47:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.166.203 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:46:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org> From: mike amundsen Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 14:46:58 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: NEW RELATION - derivedfrom To: Mark Nottingham Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11345ed6ce66c7050c3d6ce9 Archived-At: Cc: Paul Hoffman , link-relations X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 19:47:26 -0000 --001a11345ed6ce66c7050c3d6ce9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 seems fine. the current I-D[1] still shows "convertedfrom" -- i assume that'll change before IANA reg for "derivedfrom", right? [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hoffman-xml2rfc-14#section-6.2 mamund +1.859.757.1449 skype: mca.amundsen http://amundsen.com/blog/ http://twitter.com/mamund https://github.com/mamund http://linkedin.com/in/mamund On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Mark Nottingham wrote: > Looks good to me; anyone else have comments? > > > > On 9 Jan 2015, at 2:07 pm, Paul Hoffman wrote: > > > > Relation Name: derivedfrom > > > > Description: The target IRI points to a resource from which this > material was derived. > > > > Reference: draft-hoffman-xml2rfc > > > > Notes: n/a > > > > Application Data: n/a > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > link-relations mailing list > > link-relations@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/link-relations > > -- > Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > link-relations mailing list > link-relations@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/link-relations > --001a11345ed6ce66c7050c3d6ce9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
seems fine.

the current I-D[1] still sh= ows "convertedfrom" -- i assume that'll change before IANA re= g for "derivedfrom", right?


[1]=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hoffman-xml2rfc-14#section-= 6.2



On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Mark Notting= ham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote:
Loo= ks good to me; anyone else have comments?


> On 9 Jan 2015, at 2:07 pm, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> wrote:
>
> Relation Name: derivedfrom
>
> Description: The target IRI points to a resource from which this mater= ial was derived.
>
> Reference: draft-hoffman-xml2rfc
>
> Notes: n/a
>
> Application Data: n/a
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> link-relations mailing list
> link-relations@ietf.org=
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/link-relations

--
Mark Nottingham=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://www.mnot.net/



_______________________________________________
link-relations mailing list
link-relations@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/link-relations

--001a11345ed6ce66c7050c3d6ce9-- From nobody Fri Jan 9 11:56:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56701A8FD3 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:56:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Na9x468cQhMh for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:56:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A94C1AC3D9 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:55:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.175] ([84.187.53.84]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MC3zg-1Y0pxd1cy8-008uEo; Fri, 09 Jan 2015 20:55:09 +0100 Message-ID: <54B03217.3030901@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 20:55:03 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham , Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: NEW RELATION - derivedfrom References: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:xzNNCHnSSc1MeuOGVgz7fTchtDZl0i25X9tjb5lO0plN8zzQ9u2 coPaE10u8d/aIPbSDyZxdQ/3FDZJ3o76uIvkLlQveBqk87iFE7U2ObgHKYve0BIlDZNnXyx CLHdS7NocLvxCQcT7suF2eoF6YtuSVmzH0HhRohfByasGCAQNMZBwX+fan3XHD/fIPRf0+T RybTc57ucyhVW6XYHlTtw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; Archived-At: Cc: link-relations X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 19:56:03 -0000 On 2015-01-09 20:21, Mark Nottingham wrote: > Looks good to me; anyone else have comments? SGTM. From nobody Wed Jan 14 12:34:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7920E1B2AAD for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:34:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EjMNYzhlrPbV for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-x231.google.com (mail-qa0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA1181B2AA9 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:34:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f49.google.com with SMTP id v8so8329805qal.8 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:34:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:mime-version:from:to:subject:importance:date:in-reply-to :references:content-type; bh=+5ZmmkQOcHS+zVq+eVWSAEGPbD9iCAaNDu6gyGyl9w0=; b=BGFKCLUmU49+IgF7guL5T/YIUBbZUtCe4z4Mwu4GO6vc7YaJALbJWkhKPOr9rGFLf3 YcgoGf6PAT9kiO7J0mRgZHpkX9jf7vu0vj3AHd/rtkjUKJVGzyk93uqQnw1nswUR9c9D 1lFaspq15/Qm859UmnzObU6/Irjf3dIUlGPINTBkSzjoH6soHz+ah6pBSSfm87aXxu8E vevHy2vrRmwFse3KEJcoqtBEHb6crCEQ9QPXxZHyAFG5Pma/5KyoUqZD6YRR1wzuxoTi 2GLb50Tth6nGbp60+VEC6wLty+VXAPFjGp2jSF14srvBpdq5167Lp7x9Zv+NrlE3/dlk 2OIg== X-Received: by 10.140.20.50 with SMTP id 47mr879000qgi.61.1421267672922; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from Pecan (MTRLPQ5031W-LP130-05-1096744000.dsl.bell.ca. [65.94.252.64]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p7sm21509206qat.4.2015.01.14.12.34.32 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:34:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54b6d2d8.0788e00a.5bdd.0128@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: To: =?utf-8?Q?link-relations?= Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_NEW_RELATION_-_derivedfrom?= Importance: Normal Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 20:32:42 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org>, Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_7C00EA43-4AC1-4CCB-9190-1A1DF2CB13C2_" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 20:34:35 -0000 --_7C00EA43-4AC1-4CCB-9190-1A1DF2CB13C2_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" SSBsaWtlIGl0Lg0KDQoNCg0KRGFycmVsDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KRnJvbTogTWFyayBOb3R0aW5naGFt DQpTZW50OiDigI5GcmlkYXnigI4sIOKAjkphbnVhcnnigI4g4oCOOeKAjiwg4oCOMjAxNSDigI4y 4oCOOuKAjjIx4oCOIOKAjlBNDQpUbzogUGF1bCBIb2ZmbWFuDQpDYzogbGluay1yZWxhdGlvbnMN Cg0KDQoNCg0KDQpMb29rcyBnb29kIHRvIG1lOyBhbnlvbmUgZWxzZSBoYXZlIGNvbW1lbnRzPw0K DQoNCj4gT24gOSBKYW4gMjAxNSwgYXQgMjowNyBwbSwgUGF1bCBIb2ZmbWFuIDxwYXVsLmhvZmZt YW5AdnBuYy5vcmc+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gUmVsYXRpb24gTmFtZTogZGVyaXZlZGZyb20NCj4g DQo+IERlc2NyaXB0aW9uOiBUaGUgdGFyZ2V0IElSSSBwb2ludHMgdG8gYSByZXNvdXJjZSBmcm9t IHdoaWNoIHRoaXMgbWF0ZXJpYWwgd2FzIGRlcml2ZWQuDQo+IA0KPiBSZWZlcmVuY2U6IGRyYWZ0 LWhvZmZtYW4teG1sMnJmYw0KPiANCj4gTm90ZXM6IG4vYQ0KPiANCj4gQXBwbGljYXRpb24gRGF0 YTogbi9hDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCj4gbGluay1yZWxhdGlvbnMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IGxpbmstcmVsYXRpb25z QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbGluay1y ZWxhdGlvbnMNCg0KLS0NCk1hcmsgTm90dGluZ2hhbSAgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubW5vdC5uZXQvDQoN Cg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KbGlu ay1yZWxhdGlvbnMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpsaW5rLXJlbGF0aW9uc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9saW5rLXJlbGF0aW9ucw== --_7C00EA43-4AC1-4CCB-9190-1A1DF2CB13C2_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/html; 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Sun, 18 Jan 2015 21:59:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hQjeWvKaQqJu for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 21:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 231AA1AD0C3 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 21:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.83] (unknown [118.209.44.193]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F3397509BC; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 00:59:27 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Nottingham Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Fwd: NEW RELATION - derivedfrom Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 16:59:24 +1100 References: <67F2A395-A8A5-453A-A9D8-B26E2F09EA61@vpnc.org> To: iana@iana.org, link-relations Message-Id: <7ADA0270-F076-49D2-8C37-8990F229D7D9@mnot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 05:59:32 -0000 IANA, in , please add the following relation: > Relation Name: derivedfrom >=20 > Description: The target IRI points to a resource from which this = material was derived. >=20 > Reference: draft-hoffman-xml2rfc >=20 > Notes: n/a >=20 > Application Data: n/a As requested in = -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Wed Jan 21 18:07:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: link-relations@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752051A00E6 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:07:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IYCvGAzOHsAB for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:07:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxout-07.mxes.net (mxout-07.mxes.net [216.86.168.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FAF31A00D1 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:07:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.83] (unknown [118.209.44.193]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 33BF522E1F4; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 21:07:11 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Nottingham Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Fwd: [IANA #804436] Fwd: NEW RELATION - derivedfrom (draft-hoffman-xml2rfc) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 13:07:08 +1100 References: To: link-relations , Paul Hoffman Message-Id: <54E04883-6DEF-4E80-80CF-098AAF876343@mnot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: link-relations@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 02:07:16 -0000 FYI > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > Subject: [IANA #804436] Fwd: NEW RELATION - derivedfrom = (draft-hoffman-xml2rfc) > From: "Amanda Baber via RT" > Reply-To: iana-prot-param@iana.org > To: mnot@mnot.net > Date: 22 January 2015 1:00:05 pm AEDT >=20 > Hi Mark, >=20 > This registration is complete: >=20 > derivedfrom The target IRI points to a resource from which this = material was derived. [draft-hoffman-xml2rfc] >=20 > Please see > http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Amanda Baber > IANA Request Specialist > ICANN >=20 > On Mon Jan 19 06:15:56 2015, mnot@mnot.net wrote: >> IANA, >>=20 >> in > relations.xml>, >>=20 >> please add the following relation: >>=20 >>> Relation Name: derivedfrom >>>=20 >>> Description: The target IRI points to a resource from which this >>> material was derived. >>>=20 >>> Reference: draft-hoffman-xml2rfc >>>=20 >>> Notes: n/a >>>=20 >>> Application Data: n/a >>=20 >> As requested in > relations/joN3W2eShVffVMykOnPmqDyUjQE> >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >=20 >=20 >=20 -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/