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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
Thread-Topic: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
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References: <9966516C6EB5FC4381E05BF80AA55F77012A60F5F5@US70UWXCHMBA05.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <D14B7E40AEBFD54EA3AD964902DD7CB7CA20C925@ex-mb1.corp.adtran.com> <20160329084814.GA38204@elstar.local> <9966516C6EB5FC4381E05BF80AA55F77012A614422@US70UWXCHMBA05.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <D14B7E40AEBFD54EA3AD964902DD7CB7CA21173C@ex-mb1.corp.adtran.com> <20160329173257.GB40617@elstar.local> <9966516C6EB5FC4381E05BF80AA55F77012A619A6B@US70UWXCHMBA05.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <20160330074956.GC41707@elstar.local>
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
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Let me check if I understand how suppression would now work, or my likely t=
o reveal my misunderstanding.=20

For each schedule there's a tag ma-schedule-suppression-tags<0..*>
Example of this tag would be "suppress-by-default"

When ma-suppression-obj is sent, then the ma-suppression-match string can b=
e set to "suppress-by-default". Then all schedules with this tag are suppre=
ssed.

Did I get that right?

Similarly, each action can have a tag ma-action-suppression-tags<0..*.>
Similarly, another example of the tag is "suppress-if-controller-seems-dead=
"
However, Tasks have a Boolean ma-task-suppress-by-default ...?

Thanks,
phil


-----Original Message-----
From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelde=
r
Sent: 30 March 2016 04:50
To: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
Cc: bs7652@att.com; KEN KO <KEN.KO@adtran.com>; lmap@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 08:31:06PM +0000, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) wrote=
:
> Juergen,
>=20
> Looking at the text of section 3.3
> The new multi-instance model doesn't seem to support this text.

I disagree.
=20
> For example - can't just turn-on/turn-off suppression by setting enabled =
to false and the unsuppression.

This question is orthogonal to the question whether there are multiple supp=
ressions or just effectively two.

> Honestly it worked better when it was a single object with an enable and/=
or endtime...
>

Why? There were two mechanisms, the traditional suppression and the reactio=
n to loss of the controller. We now have a single mechanism that covers bot=
h cases and at the same time is more flexible and supports provisioned supp=
ressions.

The question whether we add enable/disable leafs in random places or everyw=
here is a separate question. When it comes to YANG, I am not a big fan, I r=
ather would like to see a generic solution for this problem.

/js

> BR,
> Tim
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EXT Juergen Schoenwaelder=20
> [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 12:33 PM
> To: KEN KO
> Cc: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US); lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
>=20
> You can still use suppressions as a panic button. You can have multiple p=
anic buttons if you want to (but you do not have to use it in that way). Yo=
u can have automatic pre-configured panic buttons (the new years evening ex=
ample) but you do not have to use it that way.
>=20
> If you read the emails, you will note that we had not only panic buttons =
but also a second mechanism to handle the loss of the controller. Instead o=
f having multiple hardwired mechanisms to disable 'things', the proposal ba=
ck then was to generalize _one_ mechanism so that it can do it all. The sup=
pressions we have now makes code simpler, extensible and more powerful at t=
he same time. I do not see a good reason to go back.
>=20
> /js
>=20
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 05:22:55PM +0000, KEN KO wrote:
> > TR-304 (from BBF) and RFC 7594 both document suppression as a single in=
stance. It is intended to be used as a fairly blunt instrument, for instanc=
e to prevent measurement traffic from exacerbating network congestion durin=
g an unusual event.
> >=20
> > From TR-304 section 5.2: "Suppression might be used when the measuremen=
t system wants to minimize inessential traffic, for example after a major n=
etwork incident. Only one suppression message can exist at a time in a give=
n MA. A new suppression message completely replaces the previous one."
> >=20
> > From RFC 7594 section 5.2.2.1: "The main motivation for Suppression is =
to enable the Measurement System to eliminate Measurement Traffic, because =
there is some unexpected network issue, for example.  There may be other ci=
rcumstances when Suppression is useful, for example, to eliminate inessenti=
al Reporting traffic (even if there is no Measurement Traffic).
> >=20
> > From RFC 7594 section 5.2.2: "However, Suppression information always r=
eplaces (rather than adds to) any previous Suppression information."
> >=20
> > The idea in both documents was to provide a mechanism that was flexible=
 in how tasks could be configured to react to it, but simple in how the "pa=
nic button" would be pushed in the case of a network event.=20
> >=20
> > From the archive link Juergen provided, it looks like the purpose of su=
ppression in the information model has changed fairly dramatically, and tha=
t it is now a more generic capability to disable tasks according to any of =
multiple schedules. I'm concerned that it may no longer provide the simple =
"panic button" that was intended. Do we really want to deviate in this way =
from something that was defined specifically in the framework documents, wh=
ich after all are intended to provide guidance for more detailed documentat=
ion?
> >=20
> > Ken
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) [mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 12:58 PM
> > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder; KEN KO
> > Cc: lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> > Subject: RE: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> >=20
> > Juergen,
> >=20
> > I suspect it was with good reason that the BBF wanted this as a single =
instance active at a time.=20
> >=20
> > Possibly Ken or Barbara could provide the reasoning.
> >=20
> > Minimally I would think we would need to be able administratively enabl=
e/disable a suppression object; that at least lets me shut them down tempor=
arily.
> >=20
> > BR,
> > Tim
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: EXT Juergen Schoenwaelder
> > [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 3:48 AM
> > To: KEN KO
> > Cc: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US); lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> > Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> >=20
> > The original reasoning can be found here:
> >=20
> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lmap/ptg-TcdfMuVHM93PWisj4u-tb
> > FI
> >=20
> > Not being able to provision multiple suppressions seems a major limitat=
ion to me.
> >=20
> > /js
> >=20
> > On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 03:00:27PM +0000, KEN KO wrote:
> > > Tim, thanks for catching this. I'd also like to understand why lmap h=
as changed it.
> > > Ken
> > >=20
> > > From: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) [mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 9:57 AM
> > > To: lmap@ietf.org
> > > Cc: KEN KO; bs7652@att.com
> > > Subject: Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> > >=20
> > > Team,
> > >=20
> > > I noticed that the information model has support for multiple suppres=
sions.
> > > With the current definition in the information model, it looks like t=
here isn't any constraints on multiple suppression requests that can be act=
ive at the same time.
> > >=20
> > > I just wanted to a confirmation on this. We used to have just 1 suppr=
ession object in an instruction. It looks like this changed in draft-07.
> > >=20
> > > This actually conflicts with BBF TR-304 Section 5.2 where the text sa=
ys:
> > > Suppression is the temporary cessation of all or a subset of measurem=
ent-related tasks. A Measurement Controller can send a suppress message to =
the MA that instructs the MA to temporarily suspend some or all of its sche=
duled measurement-related tasks. Suppression ends either in response to an =
explicit unsuppress message or at the time indicated in the suppress messag=
e. Suppression might be used when the measurement system wants to minimize =
inessential traffic, for example after a major network incident. Only one s=
uppression message can exist at a time in a given MA. A new suppression mes=
sage completely replaces the previous one.
> > >=20
> > > So TR-304 would expect 1 suppression with an enable; this is quite di=
fferent from the behavior that changed last November.
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Looking for guidance.
> > >=20
> > > BR,
> > > Tim
> >=20
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > lmap mailing list
> > > lmap@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap
> >=20
> >=20
> > --=20
> > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>=20
> --=20
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

--=20
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
lmap mailing list
lmap@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap


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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <acmorton@att.com>, <dromasca@avaya.com>, <lmap@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: First take on the Definition of Cycle_ID
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Subject: Re: [lmap] First take on the Definition of Cycle_ID
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Al,
Not sure if this got resolved, sorry if this email is now redundant.

In your example, I'd have thought that cycle-id would be something like "te=
sts-during-lmap-meeting".  Then it would be easy for someone to extract all=
 the relevant results from all the relevant Mas. I think if you want to dis=
tinguish between tests during the first 15 minutes and the last 15 minutes,=
 then you have two options - during data analysis, look at the timestamp in=
 the results - or create two cycle-ids "tests-during-first-part-of-lmap-mee=
ting" and "tests-during-last-part-of-lmap-meeting"

phil

-----Original Message-----
From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of MORTON, ALFRED C (AL=
)
Sent: 23 February 2016 16:02
To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com>; lmap@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [lmap] First take on the Definition of Cycle_ID

Hi Dan,

Here's an example scenario for analyzing results of tests repeated every 15=
 minutes (I don't intend to require some specification for Cycle_ID, just s=
how its potential value):

The Cycle_ID could include the
date, YYYY-MM-DD,
time, HH:MM:SS (and perhaps the time zone, too) code, decimal number to dis=
tinguish between different repeating tests.

<code>; HH:MM:SS ; YYY-MM-DD;  (assuming Zulu time)

The predictable and meaningful aspect is linked to "conducting a search".

Suppose I wanted the results from a test that ran at the beginning of the s=
cheduled LMAP interim meeting: I can easily construct the first and last Cy=
cle_IDs and extract the inclusive data range.=20

0000001; 17:00:00 ; 2016-02-22;
0000001; 19:00:00 ; 2016-02-22;

All the metrics collected as part of this repeating task would have the sam=
e unique Cycle_ID corresponding to that task. The task could be to run a qu=
ick traceroute, then measure one-way delay, delay variation, and loss on th=
e same measurement stream.  All these metrics have the same Cycle_ID.=20

With the above as a Cycle_ID, I don't need the scheduled time of the task.
I can report the "Red" timestamps pertaining to the actual measurement time=
s with the table of results instead. (As I described yesterday, "Blue" time=
stamps refer to the schedule times for a task, and "Red" refer to the actua=
l measurement time interval when packets are on the wire).

OTOH, it's somewhat harder to find the results if *only* the "Red" timestam=
ps are available, because they will have an unknown part in terms of the ex=
act minute, second, and possibly sub-second when the measurement interval s=
tarted.
You have to compose your query with ranges just to find a single set of res=
ults.=20

And, it may be easier to determine that results for some cycles are missing=
.

I could take the Cycle_ID one step further, and incorporate repeating tests=
 over space and time:

<code>; HH:MM:SS ; YYY-MM-DD; <target_location_list>;

where a single MA conducts periodic measurements with a list of target MPs.

So, I'm thinking-up ways that LMAP users might want to index, collate, and =
access the mass repeated measurement results once collected.=20

Does that help?
Al

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Romascanu, Dan
> (Dan)
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 12:52 PM
> To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL); lmap@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [lmap] First take on the Definition of Cycle_ID
>=20
> By 'predictable and meaningful' you mean what?
> - some form of timestamp
> - some form of increasing integer index?
> or ....
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Dan
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of MORTON,=20
> > ALFRED C (AL)
> > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 9:21 PM
> > To: lmap@ietf.org
> > Subject: [lmap] First take on the Definition of Cycle_ID
> >
> > LMAP, please have a look, feel free to add aspects to the definition
> that
> > would be valuable.
> >
> > Al
> >
> > Cycle_ID
> >
> > The Cycle_ID is a special form of Tag that provides an easily
> distinguishable
> > index for sets of results (or other aspect) from each "cycle" of
> Repeating
> > Tasks. Each repetition of the task and its results (including
> measurements of
> > multiple metrics on a single packet stream, for example) have the=20
> > same Cycle_ID. Some portion of the Cycle_ID will be numerical.
> >
> > The Cycle_ID must be easily searchable, such that the values=20
> > assigned
> (by the
> > MA?) should be predictable and meaningful to a human conducting a
> search
> > for specific results.
> >
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> lmap mailing list
> lmap@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap

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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
Thread-Topic: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
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Different question about suppression.
Ma-status-schedule-state can have the values: enabled, active and disabled.=
 Can you explain the difference between enabled and active, please
Thanks
phil


-----Original Message-----
From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelde=
r
Sent: 30 March 2016 04:50
To: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
Cc: bs7652@att.com; KEN KO <KEN.KO@adtran.com>; lmap@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 08:31:06PM +0000, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) wrote=
:
> Juergen,
>=20
> Looking at the text of section 3.3
> The new multi-instance model doesn't seem to support this text.

I disagree.
=20
> For example - can't just turn-on/turn-off suppression by setting enabled =
to false and the unsuppression.

This question is orthogonal to the question whether there are multiple supp=
ressions or just effectively two.

> Honestly it worked better when it was a single object with an enable and/=
or endtime...
>

Why? There were two mechanisms, the traditional suppression and the reactio=
n to loss of the controller. We now have a single mechanism that covers bot=
h cases and at the same time is more flexible and supports provisioned supp=
ressions.

The question whether we add enable/disable leafs in random places or everyw=
here is a separate question. When it comes to YANG, I am not a big fan, I r=
ather would like to see a generic solution for this problem.

/js

> BR,
> Tim
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EXT Juergen Schoenwaelder=20
> [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 12:33 PM
> To: KEN KO
> Cc: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US); lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
>=20
> You can still use suppressions as a panic button. You can have multiple p=
anic buttons if you want to (but you do not have to use it in that way). Yo=
u can have automatic pre-configured panic buttons (the new years evening ex=
ample) but you do not have to use it that way.
>=20
> If you read the emails, you will note that we had not only panic buttons =
but also a second mechanism to handle the loss of the controller. Instead o=
f having multiple hardwired mechanisms to disable 'things', the proposal ba=
ck then was to generalize _one_ mechanism so that it can do it all. The sup=
pressions we have now makes code simpler, extensible and more powerful at t=
he same time. I do not see a good reason to go back.
>=20
> /js
>=20
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 05:22:55PM +0000, KEN KO wrote:
> > TR-304 (from BBF) and RFC 7594 both document suppression as a single in=
stance. It is intended to be used as a fairly blunt instrument, for instanc=
e to prevent measurement traffic from exacerbating network congestion durin=
g an unusual event.
> >=20
> > From TR-304 section 5.2: "Suppression might be used when the measuremen=
t system wants to minimize inessential traffic, for example after a major n=
etwork incident. Only one suppression message can exist at a time in a give=
n MA. A new suppression message completely replaces the previous one."
> >=20
> > From RFC 7594 section 5.2.2.1: "The main motivation for Suppression is =
to enable the Measurement System to eliminate Measurement Traffic, because =
there is some unexpected network issue, for example.  There may be other ci=
rcumstances when Suppression is useful, for example, to eliminate inessenti=
al Reporting traffic (even if there is no Measurement Traffic).
> >=20
> > From RFC 7594 section 5.2.2: "However, Suppression information always r=
eplaces (rather than adds to) any previous Suppression information."
> >=20
> > The idea in both documents was to provide a mechanism that was flexible=
 in how tasks could be configured to react to it, but simple in how the "pa=
nic button" would be pushed in the case of a network event.=20
> >=20
> > From the archive link Juergen provided, it looks like the purpose of su=
ppression in the information model has changed fairly dramatically, and tha=
t it is now a more generic capability to disable tasks according to any of =
multiple schedules. I'm concerned that it may no longer provide the simple =
"panic button" that was intended. Do we really want to deviate in this way =
from something that was defined specifically in the framework documents, wh=
ich after all are intended to provide guidance for more detailed documentat=
ion?
> >=20
> > Ken
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) [mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 12:58 PM
> > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder; KEN KO
> > Cc: lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> > Subject: RE: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> >=20
> > Juergen,
> >=20
> > I suspect it was with good reason that the BBF wanted this as a single =
instance active at a time.=20
> >=20
> > Possibly Ken or Barbara could provide the reasoning.
> >=20
> > Minimally I would think we would need to be able administratively enabl=
e/disable a suppression object; that at least lets me shut them down tempor=
arily.
> >=20
> > BR,
> > Tim
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: EXT Juergen Schoenwaelder
> > [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 3:48 AM
> > To: KEN KO
> > Cc: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US); lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> > Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> >=20
> > The original reasoning can be found here:
> >=20
> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lmap/ptg-TcdfMuVHM93PWisj4u-tb
> > FI
> >=20
> > Not being able to provision multiple suppressions seems a major limitat=
ion to me.
> >=20
> > /js
> >=20
> > On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 03:00:27PM +0000, KEN KO wrote:
> > > Tim, thanks for catching this. I'd also like to understand why lmap h=
as changed it.
> > > Ken
> > >=20
> > > From: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) [mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 9:57 AM
> > > To: lmap@ietf.org
> > > Cc: KEN KO; bs7652@att.com
> > > Subject: Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> > >=20
> > > Team,
> > >=20
> > > I noticed that the information model has support for multiple suppres=
sions.
> > > With the current definition in the information model, it looks like t=
here isn't any constraints on multiple suppression requests that can be act=
ive at the same time.
> > >=20
> > > I just wanted to a confirmation on this. We used to have just 1 suppr=
ession object in an instruction. It looks like this changed in draft-07.
> > >=20
> > > This actually conflicts with BBF TR-304 Section 5.2 where the text sa=
ys:
> > > Suppression is the temporary cessation of all or a subset of measurem=
ent-related tasks. A Measurement Controller can send a suppress message to =
the MA that instructs the MA to temporarily suspend some or all of its sche=
duled measurement-related tasks. Suppression ends either in response to an =
explicit unsuppress message or at the time indicated in the suppress messag=
e. Suppression might be used when the measurement system wants to minimize =
inessential traffic, for example after a major network incident. Only one s=
uppression message can exist at a time in a given MA. A new suppression mes=
sage completely replaces the previous one.
> > >=20
> > > So TR-304 would expect 1 suppression with an enable; this is quite di=
fferent from the behavior that changed last November.
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Looking for guidance.
> > >=20
> > > BR,
> > > Tim
> >=20
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > lmap mailing list
> > > lmap@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap
> >=20
> >=20
> > --=20
> > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>=20
> --=20
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

--=20
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
lmap mailing list
lmap@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap


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Thread-Topic: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes
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Subject: Re: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes
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-----Original Message-----
From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelde=
r
Sent: 18 March 2016 07:54
To: lmap@ietf.org
Subject: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes


2) It is almost impossible to implement 'conflict' on a per row
   level. The lmap scheduler can likely track which actions were
   running during the execution of an action but it surely does not
   know the internals of the action and hence it can't know how to
   determine conflicts on a per row level. Likewise, the measurement
   action does not know how to determine what else is going on on the
   system and related to the lmap framework. Hence, the conflict
   should be reported as part of ma-report-action-obj and not as a
   result row property.

[phil]
Let me see if I understand.=20
A conflict means that something may have interfered /impacted the measureme=
nt results being reported, for example "cross traffic" is detected. I agree=
 this isn't something that the scheduler knows about - it's detected by the=
 MA at the time of the measurement.=20
Ma-report-action-obj doesn't seem to exist? I guess ma-report-result-obj.=20
This reports the meta-data for a single executed action.=20
However, if I get it right an action can in fact consist of a series of mea=
surements. Assuming these measurements are close in time then I think it's =
ok to report conflicts at the action rather than row level. For example, su=
ppose the action was "measure the RTT to test server X by sending 10 test p=
ackets in quick succession", then I'd be interested in knowing there was cr=
oss-traffic sometime during the 10 pkts - knowing that test pkts 1, 2 and 8=
 suffered cross-traffic is probably too detailed=20

Incidentally I think the draft could do with some example of the difference=
 between action with several measurements (as in the RTT example) and a ser=
ies of actions (measure the RTT every 10 minutes). Or at least the differen=
ce that we expect between these - I guess someone is free to treat my examp=
le as 10 actions, each of which sends 1 test packet.=20

Thanks
phil


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-----Original Message-----
From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelde=
r
Sent: 18 March 2016 07:54
To: lmap@ietf.org
Subject: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes

3) A measurement action may produce different result 'tables'. The
   assumption that there is a single header followed by a set of rows
   is too limited. We need to allow for a set of result 'tables'
   instead of a single one.

[phil]
If I get it right, this concerns where we want to report different subset o=
f the results to different collectors.=20
It would then be nice to have a table tailored for each collector.=20
The alternative is one table, which has all the possible fields in the tabl=
e columns but leaves some of the columns empty (for the results that a part=
icular collector doesn't need). Both will work, but I agree it seems more e=
legant to have several tables, tailored for each collector.
If results are reported to only one collector, then I don't think you'd nee=
d more than one table.=20

Thanks
phil


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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, <lmap@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes
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Subject: Re: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes
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-----Original Message-----
From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelde=
r
Sent: 18 March 2016 07:54
To: lmap@ietf.org
Subject: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes

4) The description of ma-report-row-start-time and
   ma-report-row-end-time says that this timestamp is the start and
   the end of the action. If so, they should be reported as part of
   the ma-report-action-obj and not as part of the ma-report-row-obj.

[phil]
For an action that is a series of measurements (say 10 measurements of RTT =
to test server X, in rapid succession), then I think it makes sense to reco=
rd the time of those individual measurements.=20


From nobody Sat Apr  2 08:31:17 2016
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From: "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
To: "EXT philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Thread-Topic: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
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Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 15:31:04 +0000
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Cc: "bs7652@att.com" <bs7652@att.com>, "KEN.KO@adtran.com" <KEN.KO@adtran.com>, "lmap@ietf.org" <lmap@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
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Phil,

Inline <TAC>

-----Original Message-----
From: EXT philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]=20
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 9:00 PM
To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de; Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)
Cc: bs7652@att.com; KEN.KO@adtran.com; lmap@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions

Let me check if I understand how suppression would now work, or my likely t=
o reveal my misunderstanding.=20

For each schedule there's a tag ma-schedule-suppression-tags<0..*>
Example of this tag would be "suppress-by-default"

When ma-suppression-obj is sent, then the ma-suppression-match string can b=
e set to "suppress-by-default". Then all schedules with this tag are suppre=
ssed.

Did I get that right?
<TAC> Yes but the tag can be anything (e.g., tag0)

Similarly, each action can have a tag ma-action-suppression-tags<0..*.> Sim=
ilarly, another example of the tag is "suppress-if-controller-seems-dead"
<TAC> Correct

However, Tasks have a Boolean ma-task-suppress-by-default ...?
<TAC> Yes when a suppression match object doesn't exist - these take effect=
.
The reason I needed the enable parameter for suppression is that in TR-069 =
we don't have the concept of option parameters for runtime so I use an empt=
y suppression match to invoke these Booleans.

Thanks,
phil


-----Original Message-----
From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelde=
r
Sent: 30 March 2016 04:50
To: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
Cc: bs7652@att.com; KEN KO <KEN.KO@adtran.com>; lmap@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 08:31:06PM +0000, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) wrote=
:
> Juergen,
>=20
> Looking at the text of section 3.3
> The new multi-instance model doesn't seem to support this text.

I disagree.
=20
> For example - can't just turn-on/turn-off suppression by setting enabled =
to false and the unsuppression.

This question is orthogonal to the question whether there are multiple supp=
ressions or just effectively two.

> Honestly it worked better when it was a single object with an enable and/=
or endtime...
>

Why? There were two mechanisms, the traditional suppression and the reactio=
n to loss of the controller. We now have a single mechanism that covers bot=
h cases and at the same time is more flexible and supports provisioned supp=
ressions.

The question whether we add enable/disable leafs in random places or everyw=
here is a separate question. When it comes to YANG, I am not a big fan, I r=
ather would like to see a generic solution for this problem.

/js

> BR,
> Tim
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EXT Juergen Schoenwaelder
> [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 12:33 PM
> To: KEN KO
> Cc: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US); lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
>=20
> You can still use suppressions as a panic button. You can have multiple p=
anic buttons if you want to (but you do not have to use it in that way). Yo=
u can have automatic pre-configured panic buttons (the new years evening ex=
ample) but you do not have to use it that way.
>=20
> If you read the emails, you will note that we had not only panic buttons =
but also a second mechanism to handle the loss of the controller. Instead o=
f having multiple hardwired mechanisms to disable 'things', the proposal ba=
ck then was to generalize _one_ mechanism so that it can do it all. The sup=
pressions we have now makes code simpler, extensible and more powerful at t=
he same time. I do not see a good reason to go back.
>=20
> /js
>=20
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 05:22:55PM +0000, KEN KO wrote:
> > TR-304 (from BBF) and RFC 7594 both document suppression as a single in=
stance. It is intended to be used as a fairly blunt instrument, for instanc=
e to prevent measurement traffic from exacerbating network congestion durin=
g an unusual event.
> >=20
> > From TR-304 section 5.2: "Suppression might be used when the measuremen=
t system wants to minimize inessential traffic, for example after a major n=
etwork incident. Only one suppression message can exist at a time in a give=
n MA. A new suppression message completely replaces the previous one."
> >=20
> > From RFC 7594 section 5.2.2.1: "The main motivation for Suppression is =
to enable the Measurement System to eliminate Measurement Traffic, because =
there is some unexpected network issue, for example.  There may be other ci=
rcumstances when Suppression is useful, for example, to eliminate inessenti=
al Reporting traffic (even if there is no Measurement Traffic).
> >=20
> > From RFC 7594 section 5.2.2: "However, Suppression information always r=
eplaces (rather than adds to) any previous Suppression information."
> >=20
> > The idea in both documents was to provide a mechanism that was flexible=
 in how tasks could be configured to react to it, but simple in how the "pa=
nic button" would be pushed in the case of a network event.=20
> >=20
> > From the archive link Juergen provided, it looks like the purpose of su=
ppression in the information model has changed fairly dramatically, and tha=
t it is now a more generic capability to disable tasks according to any of =
multiple schedules. I'm concerned that it may no longer provide the simple =
"panic button" that was intended. Do we really want to deviate in this way =
from something that was defined specifically in the framework documents, wh=
ich after all are intended to provide guidance for more detailed documentat=
ion?
> >=20
> > Ken
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) [mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 12:58 PM
> > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder; KEN KO
> > Cc: lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> > Subject: RE: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> >=20
> > Juergen,
> >=20
> > I suspect it was with good reason that the BBF wanted this as a single =
instance active at a time.=20
> >=20
> > Possibly Ken or Barbara could provide the reasoning.
> >=20
> > Minimally I would think we would need to be able administratively enabl=
e/disable a suppression object; that at least lets me shut them down tempor=
arily.
> >=20
> > BR,
> > Tim
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: EXT Juergen Schoenwaelder
> > [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 3:48 AM
> > To: KEN KO
> > Cc: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US); lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> > Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> >=20
> > The original reasoning can be found here:
> >=20
> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lmap/ptg-TcdfMuVHM93PWisj4u-tb
> > FI
> >=20
> > Not being able to provision multiple suppressions seems a major limitat=
ion to me.
> >=20
> > /js
> >=20
> > On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 03:00:27PM +0000, KEN KO wrote:
> > > Tim, thanks for catching this. I'd also like to understand why lmap h=
as changed it.
> > > Ken
> > >=20
> > > From: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) [mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 9:57 AM
> > > To: lmap@ietf.org
> > > Cc: KEN KO; bs7652@att.com
> > > Subject: Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> > >=20
> > > Team,
> > >=20
> > > I noticed that the information model has support for multiple suppres=
sions.
> > > With the current definition in the information model, it looks like t=
here isn't any constraints on multiple suppression requests that can be act=
ive at the same time.
> > >=20
> > > I just wanted to a confirmation on this. We used to have just 1 suppr=
ession object in an instruction. It looks like this changed in draft-07.
> > >=20
> > > This actually conflicts with BBF TR-304 Section 5.2 where the text sa=
ys:
> > > Suppression is the temporary cessation of all or a subset of measurem=
ent-related tasks. A Measurement Controller can send a suppress message to =
the MA that instructs the MA to temporarily suspend some or all of its sche=
duled measurement-related tasks. Suppression ends either in response to an =
explicit unsuppress message or at the time indicated in the suppress messag=
e. Suppression might be used when the measurement system wants to minimize =
inessential traffic, for example after a major network incident. Only one s=
uppression message can exist at a time in a given MA. A new suppression mes=
sage completely replaces the previous one.
> > >=20
> > > So TR-304 would expect 1 suppression with an enable; this is quite di=
fferent from the behavior that changed last November.
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Looking for guidance.
> > >=20
> > > BR,
> > > Tim
> >=20
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > lmap mailing list
> > > lmap@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap
> >=20
> >=20
> > --=20
> > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>=20
> --=20
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

--=20
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
lmap mailing list
lmap@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap


From nobody Sat Apr  2 08:38:36 2016
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From: "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
To: "EXT philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Thread-Topic: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
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A schedule may be enabled - but it hasn't hit its timer - e.g., calendar st=
art May 1, 2016 end May 10, 2016=20

In TR-069 we have a enable parameter (part of the convention that all r/w m=
ulti-instance objects have administrative enable capabilities so Enabled fo=
r me means - the administrative state is enabled.

BR,
Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: EXT philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]=20
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 9:14 PM
To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de; Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)
Cc: bs7652@att.com; KEN.KO@adtran.com; lmap@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions

Different question about suppression.
Ma-status-schedule-state can have the values: enabled, active and disabled.=
 Can you explain the difference between enabled and active, please Thanks p=
hil


-----Original Message-----
From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelde=
r
Sent: 30 March 2016 04:50
To: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
Cc: bs7652@att.com; KEN KO <KEN.KO@adtran.com>; lmap@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 08:31:06PM +0000, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) wrote=
:
> Juergen,
>=20
> Looking at the text of section 3.3
> The new multi-instance model doesn't seem to support this text.

I disagree.
=20
> For example - can't just turn-on/turn-off suppression by setting enabled =
to false and the unsuppression.

This question is orthogonal to the question whether there are multiple supp=
ressions or just effectively two.

> Honestly it worked better when it was a single object with an enable and/=
or endtime...
>

Why? There were two mechanisms, the traditional suppression and the reactio=
n to loss of the controller. We now have a single mechanism that covers bot=
h cases and at the same time is more flexible and supports provisioned supp=
ressions.

The question whether we add enable/disable leafs in random places or everyw=
here is a separate question. When it comes to YANG, I am not a big fan, I r=
ather would like to see a generic solution for this problem.

/js

> BR,
> Tim
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EXT Juergen Schoenwaelder
> [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 12:33 PM
> To: KEN KO
> Cc: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US); lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
>=20
> You can still use suppressions as a panic button. You can have multiple p=
anic buttons if you want to (but you do not have to use it in that way). Yo=
u can have automatic pre-configured panic buttons (the new years evening ex=
ample) but you do not have to use it that way.
>=20
> If you read the emails, you will note that we had not only panic buttons =
but also a second mechanism to handle the loss of the controller. Instead o=
f having multiple hardwired mechanisms to disable 'things', the proposal ba=
ck then was to generalize _one_ mechanism so that it can do it all. The sup=
pressions we have now makes code simpler, extensible and more powerful at t=
he same time. I do not see a good reason to go back.
>=20
> /js
>=20
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 05:22:55PM +0000, KEN KO wrote:
> > TR-304 (from BBF) and RFC 7594 both document suppression as a single in=
stance. It is intended to be used as a fairly blunt instrument, for instanc=
e to prevent measurement traffic from exacerbating network congestion durin=
g an unusual event.
> >=20
> > From TR-304 section 5.2: "Suppression might be used when the measuremen=
t system wants to minimize inessential traffic, for example after a major n=
etwork incident. Only one suppression message can exist at a time in a give=
n MA. A new suppression message completely replaces the previous one."
> >=20
> > From RFC 7594 section 5.2.2.1: "The main motivation for Suppression is =
to enable the Measurement System to eliminate Measurement Traffic, because =
there is some unexpected network issue, for example.  There may be other ci=
rcumstances when Suppression is useful, for example, to eliminate inessenti=
al Reporting traffic (even if there is no Measurement Traffic).
> >=20
> > From RFC 7594 section 5.2.2: "However, Suppression information always r=
eplaces (rather than adds to) any previous Suppression information."
> >=20
> > The idea in both documents was to provide a mechanism that was flexible=
 in how tasks could be configured to react to it, but simple in how the "pa=
nic button" would be pushed in the case of a network event.=20
> >=20
> > From the archive link Juergen provided, it looks like the purpose of su=
ppression in the information model has changed fairly dramatically, and tha=
t it is now a more generic capability to disable tasks according to any of =
multiple schedules. I'm concerned that it may no longer provide the simple =
"panic button" that was intended. Do we really want to deviate in this way =
from something that was defined specifically in the framework documents, wh=
ich after all are intended to provide guidance for more detailed documentat=
ion?
> >=20
> > Ken
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) [mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 12:58 PM
> > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder; KEN KO
> > Cc: lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> > Subject: RE: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> >=20
> > Juergen,
> >=20
> > I suspect it was with good reason that the BBF wanted this as a single =
instance active at a time.=20
> >=20
> > Possibly Ken or Barbara could provide the reasoning.
> >=20
> > Minimally I would think we would need to be able administratively enabl=
e/disable a suppression object; that at least lets me shut them down tempor=
arily.
> >=20
> > BR,
> > Tim
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: EXT Juergen Schoenwaelder
> > [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 3:48 AM
> > To: KEN KO
> > Cc: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US); lmap@ietf.org; bs7652@att.com
> > Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> >=20
> > The original reasoning can be found here:
> >=20
> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lmap/ptg-TcdfMuVHM93PWisj4u-tb
> > FI
> >=20
> > Not being able to provision multiple suppressions seems a major limitat=
ion to me.
> >=20
> > /js
> >=20
> > On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 03:00:27PM +0000, KEN KO wrote:
> > > Tim, thanks for catching this. I'd also like to understand why lmap h=
as changed it.
> > > Ken
> > >=20
> > > From: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) [mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 9:57 AM
> > > To: lmap@ietf.org
> > > Cc: KEN KO; bs7652@att.com
> > > Subject: Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
> > >=20
> > > Team,
> > >=20
> > > I noticed that the information model has support for multiple suppres=
sions.
> > > With the current definition in the information model, it looks like t=
here isn't any constraints on multiple suppression requests that can be act=
ive at the same time.
> > >=20
> > > I just wanted to a confirmation on this. We used to have just 1 suppr=
ession object in an instruction. It looks like this changed in draft-07.
> > >=20
> > > This actually conflicts with BBF TR-304 Section 5.2 where the text sa=
ys:
> > > Suppression is the temporary cessation of all or a subset of measurem=
ent-related tasks. A Measurement Controller can send a suppress message to =
the MA that instructs the MA to temporarily suspend some or all of its sche=
duled measurement-related tasks. Suppression ends either in response to an =
explicit unsuppress message or at the time indicated in the suppress messag=
e. Suppression might be used when the measurement system wants to minimize =
inessential traffic, for example after a major network incident. Only one s=
uppression message can exist at a time in a given MA. A new suppression mes=
sage completely replaces the previous one.
> > >=20
> > > So TR-304 would expect 1 suppression with an enable; this is quite di=
fferent from the behavior that changed last November.
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Looking for guidance.
> > >=20
> > > BR,
> > > Tim
> >=20
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > lmap mailing list
> > > lmap@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap
> >=20
> >=20
> > --=20
> > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>=20
> --=20
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

--=20
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
lmap mailing list
lmap@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap


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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, "lmap@ietf.org" <lmap@ietf.org>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 13:45:31 -0400
Thread-Topic: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes
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Subject: Re: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> philip.eardley@bt.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2016 9:39 AM
> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de; lmap@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen
> Schoenwaelder
> Sent: 18 March 2016 07:54
> To: lmap@ietf.org
> Subject: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes
>=20
> 4) The description of ma-report-row-start-time and
>    ma-report-row-end-time says that this timestamp is the start and
>    the end of the action. If so, they should be reported as part of
>    the ma-report-action-obj and not as part of the ma-report-row-obj.
>=20
> [phil]
> For an action that is a series of measurements (say 10 measurements of
> RTT to test server X, in rapid succession), then I think it makes sense
> to record the time of those individual measurements.
>=20
Right. One of the benefits of using IPPM metrics in general, and in this
case in particular, is that the set of info to report has already
been considered. Individual results like this are reported as=20
the Time when the packet is sent from source to the server, and the RTT
metric from RFC2681 (and the Registry).

Al




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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Information model question on Events in the schedule
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On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 11:49:24AM +0000, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) wrote:
> Juergen,
> 
> 
> I think again there is overload in the event.
> In -05 there were timing objects.
> These timing objects were assigned to a schedule. The Calendar  and periodic timing object has a start and end date. The one-off and Immediate were one time.
> 
> At that revision everything was cored in terms of scheduling a task. 
> 
> Then things got conflated with an event concept in -06 but the timing objects still have a start and end time.

I do not think things got 'conflated'.
 
> In the case of the schedule with a calendar/periodic "event" this would be the start and stop time of the schedule.
>

No, it always has been the start / end of the interval in which
calendar/periodic events are created. If a schedule has a stop time,
this must be a property of the schedule, not of the event triggering
the execution of the schedule.
 
> On the single schedule object: That is incorrect the calendar object has a start and end date. I do not understand why you say it doesn't have a end date. 
> 
> Is it that you expect different/numerous event instances for a single schedule (each time the schedule timer fires). If so I think that is what was conflated?  If so the original intent was to simply have a timer object that described when a schedule was active not the actual event that it did fire.
>

It never did this or at least I never understood it that way.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
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On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 12:00:03AM +0000, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
> Let me check if I understand how suppression would now work, or my likely to reveal my misunderstanding. 
> 
> For each schedule there's a tag ma-schedule-suppression-tags<0..*>
> Example of this tag would be "suppress-by-default"
> 
> When ma-suppression-obj is sent, then the ma-suppression-match string can be set to "suppress-by-default". Then all schedules with this tag are suppressed.
> 
> Did I get that right?

Yes. Note that tags can have other user-defined values.
 
> Similarly, each action can have a tag ma-action-suppression-tags<0..*.>
> Similarly, another example of the tag is "suppress-if-controller-seems-dead"
> However, Tasks have a Boolean ma-task-suppress-by-default ...?

This kicks in if there are no tags to match. I personally would remove
ma-task-suppress-by-default since we have a more flexible mechanism
that can emulate it as you described above.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Subject: Re: [lmap] Question on multiple outstanding suppressions
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On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 12:14:25AM +0000, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
> Different question about suppression.
> Ma-status-schedule-state can have the values: enabled, active and disabled. Can you explain the difference between enabled and active, please

Enables means when the event happens, the suppression becomes active
(and when suppression is over it returns to enabled). In my
implementation, a suppression becomes disabled if it can't every
trigger anymore (e.g., a suppression bound to a startup event will get
active at startup and then transition into disabled afterwards).

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Subject: Re: [lmap] Support for multiple report table formats from one task
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On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:19:07PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> Juergen,
> 
> The changes to version 4 of the LMAP YANG model (
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lmap-yang-04) allow for multiple
> tables to be sent for one task, so thank you.  However the client
> application will need to be able to determine what data is in each of the
> different tables.  There were two suggestions made in this thread:
> 
> 1) use different registry references for each table via the metric object
> 2) use different values in the 'tag' object for each table
> 
> The problem I see is neither the 'metric' or 'tag' objects are within the
> new 'table' object so each table cannot define its own value for these.
>

There are two options I think:

- Either assume that there is a 1:1 relationship between metrics
  listed and the result tables; or

- Introduce an additional structure that binds 0..n metrics to a
  result table.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 01:35:02PM +0000, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelder
> Sent: 18 March 2016 07:54
> To: lmap@ietf.org
> Subject: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes
> 
> 3) A measurement action may produce different result 'tables'. The
>    assumption that there is a single header followed by a set of rows
>    is too limited. We need to allow for a set of result 'tables'
>    instead of a single one.
> 
> [phil]
> If I get it right, this concerns where we want to report different subset of the results to different collectors. 
> It would then be nice to have a table tailored for each collector. 
> The alternative is one table, which has all the possible fields in the table columns but leaves some of the columns empty (for the results that a particular collector doesn't need). Both will work, but I agree it seems more elegant to have several tables, tailored for each collector.
> If results are reported to only one collector, then I don't think you'd need more than one table. 
>

This is a question of how the results are structured. You either have
a flexible table layout that allows tools to send results of different
measurements in one table or you have a more fixed table layout where
it is more natural to send multiple differently structured
tables. Since we do not any specific assumptions or recommendations, I
think it makes sense to support both.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 01:38:44PM +0000, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lmap [mailto:lmap-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelder
> Sent: 18 March 2016 07:54
> To: lmap@ietf.org
> Subject: [lmap] some lmap result report model changes
> 
> 4) The description of ma-report-row-start-time and
>    ma-report-row-end-time says that this timestamp is the start and
>    the end of the action. If so, they should be reported as part of
>    the ma-report-action-obj and not as part of the ma-report-row-obj.
> 
> [phil]
> For an action that is a series of measurements (say 10 measurements of RTT to test server X, in rapid succession), then I think it makes sense to record the time of those individual measurements.

I think stuff that happens "inside" of a measurement task (timing
details, observed cross traffic for certain packet trains, ...) should
go into the result tables and not into the meta data of the result
record.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 08:53:17PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> LMAP Team,
> 
> We want the MA to provide information to the Controller that will be used
> to characterize/limit the Measurement Tasks that are later executed.
> 
> Examples include:
> 
>    - licenses for optional features
>    - max test bandwidth
>    - total number of simultaneous tests and data streams (based on VM
>    resources for virtual devices)
> 
> This appears to be information that LMAP suggests can be provided as part
> of getting the capabilities from the MA.  I have two questions based on
> version 9 of the LMAP Information Model.

This is not modelled in the information model.
 
> 1) Which API should be used to pass this information from the MA to the
> Controller?
> 
>    - ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state seems logical however there doesn't
>    appear to be a place for this type of information in it
>    - One possibility is to define a 'capability task' whose
>    ietf-lmap-control:lmap/tasks/task/option contains the data.  The controller
>    could then GET the ietf-lmap-control:lmap object to the values.  However, I
>    am not sure if tasks were envisioned to return data in this manner.

The results go to the collector and not to the controller.

> 2) While looking into how to solve this issue we found
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7223.  Has any consideration been given to
> adding the 'interfaces' or 'interfaces-state' objects defined in that
> document to ietf-lmap-control/lmap-state?  This would partially address the
> issue above but more importantly being able to get general RX and TX
> statistics on the test interface would be useful for general MA
> troubleshooting.

The YANG data model says:

   o  Capability and Status Information: Some of the status information
      is modeled in the /lmap-state/agent subtree and the /lmap-state/
      schedules subtree.  Information about network interfaces can be
      obtained from the interfaces YANG data model [RFC7223].

In other words, to expose interface details and statistics one should
implement RFC7223.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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Juergen,

For #1, learning the MA's capabilities, please confirm this is the expected
use case:

1) MA is provisioned with predefined channel information for Controller
2) MA registers with Controller
3) Controller wants to dynamically learn the MA's capabilities so it reads
either ietf-lmap-control:lmap or ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state to learn the
device type and a list of tasks
4) Based on predefined information (i.e. hard coded), the controller uses
the device type to know which task or tasks will tell it the capabilities.
5) Controller automatically submits the necessary schedules for the
capability task(s) and result task (task that defines collector channel).
It uses predefined channel information for the collector and presumably an
immediate event for all the schedules. Most likely the capability tasks
don't take any inputs.
6) Controller then requests data from Collector until it arrives from these
tasks.

I just want to confirm this is correct, since I expected the capability
learning to just be a simple data exchange between the Controller and MA.

For #2,

To add support for RFC7223, please confirm the expectation is that a vendor
would extend the ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state model so the extra
information could be included.  I didn't think the LMAP data models were
expected to be extended, but if this is acceptable then it seems like the
capability information could also be added to ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state,
which would simplify the capability learning process by limiting it to just
a read of ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state.

Ron



On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 8:48 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 08:53:17PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> > LMAP Team,
> >
> > We want the MA to provide information to the Controller that will be used
> > to characterize/limit the Measurement Tasks that are later executed.
> >
> > Examples include:
> >
> >    - licenses for optional features
> >    - max test bandwidth
> >    - total number of simultaneous tests and data streams (based on VM
> >    resources for virtual devices)
> >
> > This appears to be information that LMAP suggests can be provided as part
> > of getting the capabilities from the MA.  I have two questions based on
> > version 9 of the LMAP Information Model.
>
> This is not modelled in the information model.
>
> > 1) Which API should be used to pass this information from the MA to the
> > Controller?
> >
> >    - ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state seems logical however there doesn't
> >    appear to be a place for this type of information in it
> >    - One possibility is to define a 'capability task' whose
> >    ietf-lmap-control:lmap/tasks/task/option contains the data.  The
> controller
> >    could then GET the ietf-lmap-control:lmap object to the values.
> However, I
> >    am not sure if tasks were envisioned to return data in this manner.
>
> The results go to the collector and not to the controller.
>
> > 2) While looking into how to solve this issue we found
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7223.  Has any consideration been given
> to
> > adding the 'interfaces' or 'interfaces-state' objects defined in that
> > document to ietf-lmap-control/lmap-state?  This would partially address
> the
> > issue above but more importantly being able to get general RX and TX
> > statistics on the test interface would be useful for general MA
> > troubleshooting.
>
> The YANG data model says:
>
>    o  Capability and Status Information: Some of the status information
>       is modeled in the /lmap-state/agent subtree and the /lmap-state/
>       schedules subtree.  Information about network interfaces can be
>       obtained from the interfaces YANG data model [RFC7223].
>
> In other words, to expose interface details and statistics one should
> implement RFC7223.
>
> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> lmap@ietf.org
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>

--047d7bb0402acb235a052fbd15f9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Juergen,<div><br></div><div>For #1, learning the MA&#39;s =
capabilities, please confirm this is the expected use case:</div><div><br><=
/div><div>1) MA is provisioned with predefined channel information for Cont=
roller</div><div>2) MA registers with Controller</div><div>3) Controller wa=
nts to dynamically learn the MA&#39;s capabilities so it reads either=C2=A0=
<span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">ietf-lmap-control:lmap</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px">=C2=A0or=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"=
>ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state to learn the device type and a list of tasks<=
/span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">4) Based on predefined in=
formation (i.e. hard coded), the controller uses the device type to know wh=
ich task or tasks will tell it the capabilities.=C2=A0</span></div><div><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12.8px">5) Controller automatically submits the neces=
sary schedules for the capability task(s) and result task (task that define=
s collector channel). It uses predefined channel information for the collec=
tor and presumably an immediate event for all the schedules. Most likely</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">=C2=A0the capability tasks don&#39;t t=
ake any inputs.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">6) Contro=
ller then requests data from Collector until it arrives from these tasks.</=
span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div>I ju=
st want to confirm this is correct, since I expected the capability learnin=
g to just be a simple data exchange between the Controller and MA.</div><di=
v><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:12.8px">For #2,</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b=
r></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">To add support for=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">RFC7223, please confirm</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12.8px">=C2=A0the expectation is that a vendor would=
 extend the</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">=C2=A0</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px">ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state model so the extra infor=
mation could be included.=C2=A0 I didn&#39;t think the LMAP data models wer=
e expected to be extended, but if this is acceptable then it seems like the=
 capability information could also be added to=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.8px">ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state, which would simplify the cap=
ability learning process by limiting it to just a read of=C2=A0</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:12.8px">ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px">.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><=
br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Ron</span><br></div><=
div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><br></div></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 5, 20=
16 at 8:48 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" target=3D"_blank">j.schoenwaelder@j=
acobs-university.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 08:53:17PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:<br>
&gt; LMAP Team,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; We want the MA to provide information to the Controller that will be u=
sed<br>
&gt; to characterize/limit the Measurement Tasks that are later executed.<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Examples include:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - licenses for optional features<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - max test bandwidth<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - total number of simultaneous tests and data streams (ba=
sed on VM<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 resources for virtual devices)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This appears to be information that LMAP suggests can be provided as p=
art<br>
&gt; of getting the capabilities from the MA.=C2=A0 I have two questions ba=
sed on<br>
&gt; version 9 of the LMAP Information Model.<br>
<br>
This is not modelled in the information model.<br>
<br>
&gt; 1) Which API should be used to pass this information from the MA to th=
e<br>
&gt; Controller?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state seems logical however ther=
e doesn&#39;t<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 appear to be a place for this type of information in it<b=
r>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - One possibility is to define a &#39;capability task&#39=
; whose<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ietf-lmap-control:lmap/tasks/task/option contains the dat=
a.=C2=A0 The controller<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 could then GET the ietf-lmap-control:lmap object to the v=
alues.=C2=A0 However, I<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 am not sure if tasks were envisioned to return data in th=
is manner.<br>
<br>
The results go to the collector and not to the controller.<br>
<br>
&gt; 2) While looking into how to solve this issue we found<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7223" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7223</a>.=C2=A0 Has any consi=
deration been given to<br>
&gt; adding the &#39;interfaces&#39; or &#39;interfaces-state&#39; objects =
defined in that<br>
&gt; document to ietf-lmap-control/lmap-state?=C2=A0 This would partially a=
ddress the<br>
&gt; issue above but more importantly being able to get general RX and TX<b=
r>
&gt; statistics on the test interface would be useful for general MA<br>
&gt; troubleshooting.<br>
<br>
The YANG data model says:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Capability and Status Information: Some of the status =
information<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is modeled in the /lmap-state/agent subtree and the /l=
map-state/<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 schedules subtree.=C2=A0 Information about network int=
erfaces can be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 obtained from the interfaces YANG data model [RFC7223]=
.<br>
<br>
In other words, to expose interface details and statistics one should<br>
implement RFC7223.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
/js<br>
<br>
--<br>
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer=
sity Bremen gGmbH<br>
Phone: <a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20421%20200%203587" value=3D"+494212003587">+49=
 421 200 3587</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Br=
emen | Germany<br>
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20421%20200%203103" value=3D"+4942120=
03103">+49 421 200 3103</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D=
"http://www.jacobs-university.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.jacobs-university.de/</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
lmap mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:lmap@ietf.org">lmap@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 09:47:24AM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> Juergen,
> 
> For #1, learning the MA's capabilities, please confirm this is the expected
> use case:
> 
> 1) MA is provisioned with predefined channel information for Controller
> 2) MA registers with Controller
> 3) Controller wants to dynamically learn the MA's capabilities so it reads
> either ietf-lmap-control:lmap or ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state to learn the
> device type and a list of tasks
> 4) Based on predefined information (i.e. hard coded), the controller uses
> the device type to know which task or tasks will tell it the capabilities.
> 5) Controller automatically submits the necessary schedules for the
> capability task(s) and result task (task that defines collector channel).
> It uses predefined channel information for the collector and presumably an
> immediate event for all the schedules. Most likely the capability tasks
> don't take any inputs.
> 6) Controller then requests data from Collector until it arrives from these
> tasks.
> 
> I just want to confirm this is correct, since I expected the capability
> learning to just be a simple data exchange between the Controller and MA.

I do not understand what steps 4), 5), 6) would do. I guess I am not
sure what you consider 'MA capabilities' that are not covered in the
information or data model.
 
> For #2,
> 
> To add support for RFC7223, please confirm the expectation is that a vendor
> would extend the ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state model so the extra
> information could be included.  I didn't think the LMAP data models were
> expected to be extended, but if this is acceptable then it seems like the
> capability information could also be added to ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state,
> which would simplify the capability learning process by limiting it to just
> a read of ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state.

No, the expectation is that a controller can pick relevant information
out network interfaces from the data model described in RFC7223. There
is no point in replicating this information.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>,  Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>, lmap@ietf.org, alissa@cooperw.in
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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Juergen,

Steps 4,5 & 6 are performed to learn the dynamic capabilities of the MA.
For example, when the MA is a software-only implementation, the
capabilities will vary depending on what hardware it is installed on.
Depending on the number of CPUs, type of NIC, etc the number of tests, test
options and test parameter ranges may vary.  This is the type of
information that is not expected to change after the MA has been installed
but it still needs to be read at least once by the Controller.

For support of RFC7223, are you suggesting the MA should implement an API
outside of the LMAP models to return that information?

Ron


On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 09:47:24AM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> > Juergen,
> >
> > For #1, learning the MA's capabilities, please confirm this is the
> expected
> > use case:
> >
> > 1) MA is provisioned with predefined channel information for Controller
> > 2) MA registers with Controller
> > 3) Controller wants to dynamically learn the MA's capabilities so it
> reads
> > either ietf-lmap-control:lmap or ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state to learn
> the
> > device type and a list of tasks
> > 4) Based on predefined information (i.e. hard coded), the controller uses
> > the device type to know which task or tasks will tell it the
> capabilities.
> > 5) Controller automatically submits the necessary schedules for the
> > capability task(s) and result task (task that defines collector channel).
> > It uses predefined channel information for the collector and presumably
> an
> > immediate event for all the schedules. Most likely the capability tasks
> > don't take any inputs.
> > 6) Controller then requests data from Collector until it arrives from
> these
> > tasks.
> >
> > I just want to confirm this is correct, since I expected the capability
> > learning to just be a simple data exchange between the Controller and MA.
>
> I do not understand what steps 4), 5), 6) would do. I guess I am not
> sure what you consider 'MA capabilities' that are not covered in the
> information or data model.
>
> > For #2,
> >
> > To add support for RFC7223, please confirm the expectation is that a
> vendor
> > would extend the ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state model so the extra
> > information could be included.  I didn't think the LMAP data models were
> > expected to be extended, but if this is acceptable then it seems like the
> > capability information could also be added to
> ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state,
> > which would simplify the capability learning process by limiting it to
> just
> > a read of ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state.
>
> No, the expectation is that a controller can pick relevant information
> out network interfaces from the data model described in RFC7223. There
> is no point in replicating this information.
>
> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Juergen,<div><br></div><div>Steps 4,5 &amp; 6 are performe=
d to learn the dynamic capabilities of the MA. For example, when the MA is =
a software-only implementation, the capabilities will vary depending on wha=
t hardware it is installed on.=C2=A0 Depending on the number of CPUs, type =
of NIC, etc the number of tests, test options and test parameter ranges may=
 vary.=C2=A0 This is the type of information that is not expected to change=
 after the MA has been installed but it still needs to be read at least onc=
e by the Controller.</div><div><br></div><div>For support of=C2=A0<span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.8px">RFC7223, are you suggesting the MA should implement=
 an API outside of the LMAP models to return that information?=C2=A0</span>=
</div><div><br></div><div>Ron<br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 9:53 AM, =
Juergen Schoenwaelder <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j.schoenwaeld=
er@jacobs-university.de" target=3D"_blank">j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-universit=
y.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Tue, Apr 05=
, 2016 at 09:47:24AM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:<br>
&gt; Juergen,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; For #1, learning the MA&#39;s capabilities, please confirm this is the=
 expected<br>
&gt; use case:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1) MA is provisioned with predefined channel information for Controlle=
r<br>
&gt; 2) MA registers with Controller<br>
&gt; 3) Controller wants to dynamically learn the MA&#39;s capabilities so =
it reads<br>
&gt; either ietf-lmap-control:lmap or ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state to learn=
 the<br>
&gt; device type and a list of tasks<br>
&gt; 4) Based on predefined information (i.e. hard coded), the controller u=
ses<br>
&gt; the device type to know which task or tasks will tell it the capabilit=
ies.<br>
&gt; 5) Controller automatically submits the necessary schedules for the<br=
>
&gt; capability task(s) and result task (task that defines collector channe=
l).<br>
&gt; It uses predefined channel information for the collector and presumabl=
y an<br>
&gt; immediate event for all the schedules. Most likely the capability task=
s<br>
&gt; don&#39;t take any inputs.<br>
&gt; 6) Controller then requests data from Collector until it arrives from =
these<br>
&gt; tasks.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I just want to confirm this is correct, since I expected the capabilit=
y<br>
&gt; learning to just be a simple data exchange between the Controller and =
MA.<br>
<br>
I do not understand what steps 4), 5), 6) would do. I guess I am not<br>
sure what you consider &#39;MA capabilities&#39; that are not covered in th=
e<br>
information or data model.<br>
<br>
&gt; For #2,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; To add support for RFC7223, please confirm the expectation is that a v=
endor<br>
&gt; would extend the ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state model so the extra<br>
&gt; information could be included.=C2=A0 I didn&#39;t think the LMAP data =
models were<br>
&gt; expected to be extended, but if this is acceptable then it seems like =
the<br>
&gt; capability information could also be added to ietf-lmap-control:lmap-s=
tate,<br>
&gt; which would simplify the capability learning process by limiting it to=
 just<br>
&gt; a read of ietf-lmap-control:lmap-state.<br>
<br>
No, the expectation is that a controller can pick relevant information<br>
out network interfaces from the data model described in RFC7223. There<br>
is no point in replicating this information.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
/js<br>
<br>
--<br>
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer=
sity Bremen gGmbH<br>
Phone: <a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20421%20200%203587" value=3D"+494212003587">+49=
 421 200 3587</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Br=
emen | Germany<br>
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20421%20200%203103" value=3D"+4942120=
03103">+49 421 200 3103</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D=
"http://www.jacobs-university.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.jacobs-university.de/</a>&gt;<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
To: "lmap@ietf.org" <lmap@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events
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Subject: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events
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Team,

In the IETF#95 LMAP session we had a discussion on the need for the new par=
ameters for the ma-schedule-end and ma-schedule-duration parameters, given =
that the ma-schedule-start (which is typed as an event)

We said we would show that these parameters were not needed using an exampl=
e - so here goes.

Lets assume we have a schedule made up of 2 actions (A1, A2) in pipeline mo=
de. The ma-schedule-start would has a periodic event:

Start April 1, 2016 at 02:00:00

End May 1, 2016 at 02:00:00

Interval 86,400 (daily)

Randomness 3600 (within the hour)

So the schedule will reoccur every day starting on April 1 beginning at 2:0=
0pm. (T0) The starting period will be random between 2:00am and 3:00am. (T1=
) This definition is sufficient for invoking A1 (T1) and is what Al conside=
rs as Blue times.

As A1 performs a test A1 places bits on the wire (T2) and collects results =
(T3).
When A1 completes (T4), A2 is invoked (T5) which places bits on a wire for =
A2 (T2) and collects results (T3)). Finally the results from the schedule a=
re reported (T6).

T2&T3: Al considers this time to be part of the definition of the metric an=
d are reported as part of the result content (not as an actual parameter). =
This was his Red time

T4&T5: Are the ma-report-[start|end]-time
T6: Is the ma-report-date

As such - As long as an Event has a defined occurrence (T1=3DT0 + randomnes=
s) all that is necessary is a single parameter to define the occurrence.

Questions?

BR,
Tim

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Team,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the IETF#95 LMAP session we had a discussion on t=
he need for the new parameters for the ma-schedule-end and ma-schedule-dura=
tion parameters, given that the ma-schedule-start (which is typed as an eve=
nt)
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We said we would show that these parameters were not=
 needed using an example &#8211; so here goes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Lets assume we have a schedule made up of 2 actions =
(A1, A2) in pipeline mode. The ma-schedule-start would has a periodic event=
:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">Start April 1, =
2016 at 02:00:00<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">End May 1, 2016=
 at 02:00:00<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">Interval 86,400=
 (daily)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">Randomness 3600=
 (within the hour)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So the schedule will reoccur every day starting on A=
pril 1 beginning at 2:00pm. (T0) The starting period will be random between=
 2:00am and 3:00am. (T1) This definition is sufficient for invoking A1 (T1)=
 and is what Al considers as Blue
 times.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As A1 performs a test A1 places bits on the wire (T2=
) and collects results (T3).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">When A1 completes (T4), A2 is invoked (T5) which pla=
ces bits on a wire for A2 (T2) and collects results (T3)). Finally the resu=
lts from the schedule are reported (T6).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T2&amp;T3: Al considers this time to be part of the =
definition of the metric and are reported as part of the result content (no=
t as an actual parameter). This was his Red time<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T4&amp;T5: Are the ma-report-[start|end]-time<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T6: Is the ma-report-date<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As such &#8211; As long as an Event has a defined oc=
currence (T1=3DT0 &#43; randomness) all that is necessary is a single param=
eter to define the occurrence.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Questions?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BR,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tim<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
To: "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events
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Tim,

It appears you are making an assumption that each action will end on its
own (T4).  While that is true for turn-up tests like RFC-2544 and Y.1564,
long term performance monitoring tests like TWAMP and Y.1731 are expected
to produce results 24/7 and so do not have a defined end time.  They are
configured with a rate to send packets, the MA measures FD, FDV and FLR and
then the MA periodically aggregates these stats and sends them to the
collector.  The aggregation rate is typically 1, 5 or 15 minutes so reports
contain rolling start/end times as the test executes.

While what I describe above is the typical use case, there are other
scenarios where these same tests can be configured to emulate short random
bursts. In this scenario the tests need to be configured with an initial
start time, an interval to restart the test, a random start offset and a
duration.  For example, start at 1:00 today, restart every 5 minutes
thereafter, each run should be offset by a random value within 4 minutes
and each run should send the data flows for 1 minute.  I think the only
part of this LMAP did not define was the last parameter - the test
duration. While each test could offer test-specific parameters to define
its duration, I thought the proposal to add the 'end' object was to provide
a common approach for this.

Ron

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <
timothy.carey@nokia.com> wrote:

> Team,
>
>
>
> In the IETF#95 LMAP session we had a discussion on the need for the new
> parameters for the ma-schedule-end and ma-schedule-duration parameters,
> given that the ma-schedule-start (which is typed as an event)
>
>
>
> We said we would show that these parameters were not needed using an
> example =E2=80=93 so here goes.
>
>
>
> Lets assume we have a schedule made up of 2 actions (A1, A2) in pipeline
> mode. The ma-schedule-start would has a periodic event:
>
> Start April 1, 2016 at 02:00:00
>
> End May 1, 2016 at 02:00:00
>
> Interval 86,400 (daily)
>
> Randomness 3600 (within the hour)
>
>
>
> So the schedule will reoccur every day starting on April 1 beginning at
> 2:00pm. (T0) The starting period will be random between 2:00am and 3:00am=
.
> (T1) This definition is sufficient for invoking A1 (T1) and is what Al
> considers as Blue times.
>
>
>
> As A1 performs a test A1 places bits on the wire (T2) and collects result=
s
> (T3).
>
> When A1 completes (T4), A2 is invoked (T5) which places bits on a wire fo=
r
> A2 (T2) and collects results (T3)). Finally the results from the schedule
> are reported (T6).
>
>
>
> T2&T3: Al considers this time to be part of the definition of the metric
> and are reported as part of the result content (not as an actual
> parameter). This was his Red time
>
>
>
> T4&T5: Are the ma-report-[start|end]-time
>
> T6: Is the ma-report-date
>
>
>
> As such =E2=80=93 As long as an Event has a defined occurrence (T1=3DT0 +
> randomness) all that is necessary is a single parameter to define the
> occurrence.
>
>
>
> Questions?
>
>
>
> BR,
>
> Tim
>
> _______________________________________________
> lmap mailing list
> lmap@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Tim,<div><br></div><div>It appears you are making an assum=
ption that each action will end on its own (T4).=C2=A0 While that is true f=
or turn-up tests like RFC-2544 and Y.1564, long term performance monitoring=
 tests like TWAMP and Y.1731 are expected to produce results 24/7 and so do=
 not have a defined end time.=C2=A0 They are configured with a rate to send=
 packets, the MA measures FD, FDV and FLR and then the MA periodically aggr=
egates these stats and sends them to the collector.=C2=A0 The aggregation r=
ate is typically 1, 5 or 15 minutes so reports contain rolling start/end ti=
mes as the test executes.</div><div><br></div><div>While what I describe ab=
ove is the typical use case, there are other scenarios where these same tes=
ts can be configured to emulate short random bursts. In this scenario the t=
ests need to be configured with an initial start time, an interval to resta=
rt the test, a random start offset and a duration.=C2=A0 For example, start=
 at 1:00 today, restart every 5 minutes thereafter, each run should be offs=
et by a random value within 4 minutes and each run should send the data flo=
ws for 1 minute.=C2=A0 I think the only part of this LMAP did not define wa=
s the last parameter - the test duration. While each test could offer test-=
specific parameters to define its duration, I thought the proposal to add t=
he &#39;end&#39; object was to provide a common approach for this.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Ron</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US=
) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com" target=
=3D"_blank">timothy.carey@nokia.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Team,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the IETF#95 LMAP session we had a discussion on t=
he need for the new parameters for the ma-schedule-end and ma-schedule-dura=
tion parameters, given that the ma-schedule-start (which is typed as an eve=
nt)
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We said we would show that these parameters were not=
 needed using an example =E2=80=93 so here goes.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Lets assume we have a schedule made up of 2 actions =
(A1, A2) in pipeline mode. The ma-schedule-start would has a periodic event=
:
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">Start April 1, 2016 at 02:00:00<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">End May 1, 2016 at 02:00:00<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">Interval 86,400 (daily)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">Randomness 3600 (within the hour)<u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So the schedule will reoccur every day starting on A=
pril 1 beginning at 2:00pm. (T0) The starting period will be random between=
 2:00am and 3:00am. (T1) This definition is sufficient for invoking A1 (T1)=
 and is what Al considers as Blue
 times.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As A1 performs a test A1 places bits on the wire (T2=
) and collects results (T3).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">When A1 completes (T4), A2 is invoked (T5) which pla=
ces bits on a wire for A2 (T2) and collects results (T3)). Finally the resu=
lts from the schedule are reported (T6).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T2&amp;T3: Al considers this time to be part of the =
definition of the metric and are reported as part of the result content (no=
t as an actual parameter). This was his Red time<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T4&amp;T5: Are the ma-report-[start|end]-time<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T6: Is the ma-report-date<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As such =E2=80=93 As long as an Event has a defined =
occurrence (T1=3DT0 + randomness) all that is necessary is a single paramet=
er to define the occurrence.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Questions?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BR,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tim<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
lmap mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:lmap@ietf.org">lmap@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
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From: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
To: "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events
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Tim,

The exact definition of the metric is still unclear to me since I have not
seen an example of a test with average complexity using metrics with LMAP
from beginning to end.  By average complexity I mean a test that allows
independent configuration of multiple simultaneous data flows and produces
multiple report formats during the test duration. The tests I mentioned
previously (RFC-2544, Y.1564, Y.1731 and TWAMP) minimally require this type
of support and are the main tests used in Ethernet service testing today.
None-the-less, my understanding of the metric is that it defines the format
of the packet stream and the methodology of the transmit frequency. These
are two examples from
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-00

Act_IP_UDP_Poisson_UDP-Payload-250_One-way_Delay_Std_Dev

Act_IP_UDP_Periodic-var_UDP-Payload-142_One-way_Delay_Mean


It does not appear to define the time period over which the
measurement was taken.  This is good because for most tests the
measurement period is a user defined input parameter.  Performance
monitoring tests will report the metric repeatedly during the test
execution.  Referring to the example in my prior email, a TWAMP test
would produce a group of metrics for each data stream every 1, 5 or 15
minutes depending on the test configuration. It is possible the test
could be configured to produce multiple reports - for example at a
short interval for troubleshooting in addition to one of the intervals
previously mentioned for general service monitoring. Thus, the TWAMP
test produces instances of metrics for an unspecified amount of time -
typically until a user manually stops the test.


In summary, from my perspective, the duration of the test is outside
the scope of the metric definition....but maybe I just don't
understand the metric definition well enough.


Ron







On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <
timothy.carey@nokia.com> wrote:

> Ron,
>
>
>
> Thanks for looking at this.
>
> When I discussed this with Al indicated that these would be part of the
> metric/action definition.
>
>
>
> But if we would want to define a non-metric specific duration attribute o=
f
> an individual action within the context of the overall schedule (I believ=
e
> this is what you are requesting?) then we should assign that duration tha=
t
> results in (T4) to the action. Actually you have the same problem with T2=
 =E2=80=93
> within the context action =E2=80=93 this offset if necessary is different=
 from the
> schedule start randomness (once the process starts how long to wait befor=
e
> the bits hit the wire).  Maybe that is what we are missing =E2=80=93 A ti=
mer for an
> action within the context of the schedule=E2=80=A6
>
>
>
> Comments?
>
>
>
> *From:* EXT Ron Stana [mailto:ron.stana@viavisolutions.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:35 PM
> *To:* Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)
> *Cc:* lmap@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events
>
>
>
> Tim,
>
>
>
> It appears you are making an assumption that each action will end on its
> own (T4).  While that is true for turn-up tests like RFC-2544 and Y.1564,
> long term performance monitoring tests like TWAMP and Y.1731 are expected
> to produce results 24/7 and so do not have a defined end time.  They are
> configured with a rate to send packets, the MA measures FD, FDV and FLR a=
nd
> then the MA periodically aggregates these stats and sends them to the
> collector.  The aggregation rate is typically 1, 5 or 15 minutes so repor=
ts
> contain rolling start/end times as the test executes.
>
>
>
> While what I describe above is the typical use case, there are other
> scenarios where these same tests can be configured to emulate short rando=
m
> bursts. In this scenario the tests need to be configured with an initial
> start time, an interval to restart the test, a random start offset and a
> duration.  For example, start at 1:00 today, restart every 5 minutes
> thereafter, each run should be offset by a random value within 4 minutes
> and each run should send the data flows for 1 minute.  I think the only
> part of this LMAP did not define was the last parameter - the test
> duration. While each test could offer test-specific parameters to define
> its duration, I thought the proposal to add the 'end' object was to provi=
de
> a common approach for this.
>
>
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <
> timothy.carey@nokia.com> wrote:
>
> Team,
>
>
>
> In the IETF#95 LMAP session we had a discussion on the need for the new
> parameters for the ma-schedule-end and ma-schedule-duration parameters,
> given that the ma-schedule-start (which is typed as an event)
>
>
>
> We said we would show that these parameters were not needed using an
> example =E2=80=93 so here goes.
>
>
>
> Lets assume we have a schedule made up of 2 actions (A1, A2) in pipeline
> mode. The ma-schedule-start would has a periodic event:
>
> Start April 1, 2016 at 02:00:00
>
> End May 1, 2016 at 02:00:00
>
> Interval 86,400 (daily)
>
> Randomness 3600 (within the hour)
>
>
>
> So the schedule will reoccur every day starting on April 1 beginning at
> 2:00pm. (T0) The starting period will be random between 2:00am and 3:00am=
.
> (T1) This definition is sufficient for invoking A1 (T1) and is what Al
> considers as Blue times.
>
>
>
> As A1 performs a test A1 places bits on the wire (T2) and collects result=
s
> (T3).
>
> When A1 completes (T4), A2 is invoked (T5) which places bits on a wire fo=
r
> A2 (T2) and collects results (T3)). Finally the results from the schedule
> are reported (T6).
>
>
>
> T2&T3: Al considers this time to be part of the definition of the metric
> and are reported as part of the result content (not as an actual
> parameter). This was his Red time
>
>
>
> T4&T5: Are the ma-report-[start|end]-time
>
> T6: Is the ma-report-date
>
>
>
> As such =E2=80=93 As long as an Event has a defined occurrence (T1=3DT0 +
> randomness) all that is necessary is a single parameter to define the
> occurrence.
>
>
>
> Questions?
>
>
>
> BR,
>
> Tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lmap mailing list
> lmap@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap
>
>
>

--001a113ca8565676330530c280d2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Tim,<div><br></div><div>The exact definition of the metric=
 is still unclear to me since I have not seen an example of a test with ave=
rage complexity using metrics with LMAP from beginning to end.=C2=A0 By ave=
rage complexity I mean a test that allows independent configuration of mult=
iple simultaneous data flows and produces multiple report formats during th=
e test duration. The tests I mentioned previously (RFC-2544, Y.1564, Y.1731=
 and TWAMP) minimally require this type of support and are the main tests u=
sed in Ethernet service testing today.=C2=A0 None-the-less, my understandin=
g of the metric is that it defines the format of the packet stream and the =
methodology of the transmit frequency. These are two examples from=C2=A0<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-00">ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-00</a>=C2=A0</di=
v><div><br></div><div><pre class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-t=
op:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><pre class=3D"" style=3D"font-si=
ze:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Act_IP_UDP_Poisson_UDP-Paylo=
ad-250_One-way_Delay_Std_Dev</pre></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Act_IP_UDP_Per=
iodic-var_UDP-Payload-142_One-way_Delay_Mean</pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"=
font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>=
</pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=
=3D"arial, sans-serif">It does not appear to define the time period over wh=
ich the measurement was taken.  This is good because for most tests the mea=
surement period is a user defined input parameter.  Performance monitoring =
tests will report the metric repeatedly during the test execution.  Referri=
ng to the example in my prior email, a TWAMP test would produce a group of =
metrics for each data stream every 1, 5 or 15 minutes depending on the test=
 configuration. It is possible the test could be configured to produce mult=
iple reports - for example at a short interval for troubleshooting in addit=
ion to one of the intervals previously mentioned for general service monito=
ring. Thus, the TWAMP test produces instances of metrics for an unspecified=
 amount of time - typically until a user manually stops the test. =C2=A0</f=
ont></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font =
face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"margin=
-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">In summary, fr=
om my perspective, the duration of the test is outside the scope of the met=
ric definition....but maybe I just don&#39;t understand the metric definiti=
on well enough.</font></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-=
bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre class=3D=
"" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial, sans-ser=
if">Ron</font></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0=
px"><br></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><f=
ont face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"ma=
rgin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"> </font></=
pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=
=3D"arial, sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><br></font></pre><=
pre class=3D"" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br></pre></div><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr =
17, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">timothy.carey@noki=
a.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Ron,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Thanks for looking at thi=
s.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">When I discussed this wit=
h Al indicated that these would be part of the metric/action definition.<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">But if we would want to d=
efine a non-metric specific duration attribute of an individual action with=
in the context of the overall schedule (I believe this is
 what you are requesting?) then we should assign that duration that results=
 in (T4) to the action. Actually you have the same problem with T2 =E2=80=
=93 within the context action =E2=80=93 this offset if necessary is differe=
nt from the schedule start randomness (once the process
 starts how long to wait before the bits hit the wire).=C2=A0 Maybe that is=
 what we are missing =E2=80=93 A timer for an action within the context of =
the schedule=E2=80=A6<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Comments?<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> EXT Ron =
Stana [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ron.stana@viavisolutions.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">ron.stana@viavisolutions.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lmap@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lmap@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule&#39;s events<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tim,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It appears you are making an assumption that each ac=
tion will end on its own (T4).=C2=A0 While that is true for turn-up tests l=
ike RFC-2544 and Y.1564, long term performance monitoring tests like TWAMP =
and Y.1731 are expected to produce results
 24/7 and so do not have a defined end time.=C2=A0 They are configured with=
 a rate to send packets, the MA measures FD, FDV and FLR and then the MA pe=
riodically aggregates these stats and sends them to the collector.=C2=A0 Th=
e aggregation rate is typically 1, 5 or 15
 minutes so reports contain rolling start/end times as the test executes.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">While what I describe above is the typical use case,=
 there are other scenarios where these same tests can be configured to emul=
ate short random bursts. In this scenario the tests need to be configured w=
ith an initial start time, an interval
 to restart the test, a random start offset and a duration.=C2=A0 For examp=
le, start at 1:00 today, restart every 5 minutes thereafter, each run shoul=
d be offset by a random value within 4 minutes and each run should send the=
 data flows for 1 minute.=C2=A0 I think the
 only part of this LMAP did not define was the last parameter - the test du=
ration. While each test could offer test-specific parameters to define its =
duration, I thought the proposal to add the &#39;end&#39; object was to pro=
vide a common approach for this.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ron<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Carey, Timothy (Noki=
a - US) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">ti=
mothy.carey@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Team,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the IETF#95 LMAP session we had a discussion on t=
he need for the new parameters for the ma-schedule-end and ma-schedule-dura=
tion parameters, given that the ma-schedule-start
 (which is typed as an event) <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We said we would show that these parameters were not=
 needed using an example =E2=80=93 so here goes.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Lets assume we have a schedule made up of 2 actions =
(A1, A2) in pipeline mode. The ma-schedule-start would has a periodic event=
:
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">Start April 1, 2016 at 02:00:00<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">End May 1, 2016 at 02:00:00<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">Interval 86,400 (daily)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt">Randomness 3600 (within the hour)<u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So the schedule will reoccur every day starting on A=
pril 1 beginning at 2:00pm. (T0) The starting period will be random between=
 2:00am and 3:00am. (T1) This definition is sufficient
 for invoking A1 (T1) and is what Al considers as Blue times.<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As A1 performs a test A1 places bits on the wire (T2=
) and collects results (T3).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">When A1 completes (T4), A2 is invoked (T5) which pla=
ces bits on a wire for A2 (T2) and collects results (T3)). Finally the resu=
lts from the schedule are reported (T6).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T2&amp;T3: Al considers this time to be part of the =
definition of the metric and are reported as part of the result content (no=
t as an actual parameter). This was his Red time<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T4&amp;T5: Are the ma-report-[start|end]-time<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T6: Is the ma-report-date<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As such =E2=80=93 As long as an Event has a defined =
occurrence (T1=3DT0 + randomness) all that is necessary is a single paramet=
er to define the occurrence.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Questions?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BR,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tim<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
lmap mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:lmap@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lmap@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113ca8565676330530c280d2--


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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
To: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>, "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" <timothy.carey@nokia.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:19:28 -0400
Thread-Topic: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events
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Subject: Re: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:14:32 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 11:36:47PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> Juergen,
> 
> Steps 4,5 & 6 are performed to learn the dynamic capabilities of the MA.
> For example, when the MA is a software-only implementation, the
> capabilities will vary depending on what hardware it is installed on.
> Depending on the number of CPUs, type of NIC, etc the number of tests, test
> options and test parameter ranges may vary.  This is the type of
> information that is not expected to change after the MA has been installed
> but it still needs to be read at least once by the Controller.
>
> For support of RFC7223, are you suggesting the MA should implement an API
> outside of the LMAP models to return that information?
>

For a YANG-based solution, RFC 7223 (and any other relevant YANG data
model) leads to a well-defined way to obtain this information. There
is no point in duplicating this work.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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To: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
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Subject: Re: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events
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Yes, this is the reason I added this.

/js

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 12:34:31PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> Tim,
> 
> It appears you are making an assumption that each action will end on its
> own (T4).  While that is true for turn-up tests like RFC-2544 and Y.1564,
> long term performance monitoring tests like TWAMP and Y.1731 are expected
> to produce results 24/7 and so do not have a defined end time.  They are
> configured with a rate to send packets, the MA measures FD, FDV and FLR and
> then the MA periodically aggregates these stats and sends them to the
> collector.  The aggregation rate is typically 1, 5 or 15 minutes so reports
> contain rolling start/end times as the test executes.
> 
> While what I describe above is the typical use case, there are other
> scenarios where these same tests can be configured to emulate short random
> bursts. In this scenario the tests need to be configured with an initial
> start time, an interval to restart the test, a random start offset and a
> duration.  For example, start at 1:00 today, restart every 5 minutes
> thereafter, each run should be offset by a random value within 4 minutes
> and each run should send the data flows for 1 minute.  I think the only
> part of this LMAP did not define was the last parameter - the test
> duration. While each test could offer test-specific parameters to define
> its duration, I thought the proposal to add the 'end' object was to provide
> a common approach for this.
> 
> Ron
> 
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <
> timothy.carey@nokia.com> wrote:
> 
> > Team,
> >
> >
> >
> > In the IETF#95 LMAP session we had a discussion on the need for the new
> > parameters for the ma-schedule-end and ma-schedule-duration parameters,
> > given that the ma-schedule-start (which is typed as an event)
> >
> >
> >
> > We said we would show that these parameters were not needed using an
> > example – so here goes.
> >
> >
> >
> > Lets assume we have a schedule made up of 2 actions (A1, A2) in pipeline
> > mode. The ma-schedule-start would has a periodic event:
> >
> > Start April 1, 2016 at 02:00:00
> >
> > End May 1, 2016 at 02:00:00
> >
> > Interval 86,400 (daily)
> >
> > Randomness 3600 (within the hour)
> >
> >
> >
> > So the schedule will reoccur every day starting on April 1 beginning at
> > 2:00pm. (T0) The starting period will be random between 2:00am and 3:00am.
> > (T1) This definition is sufficient for invoking A1 (T1) and is what Al
> > considers as Blue times.
> >
> >
> >
> > As A1 performs a test A1 places bits on the wire (T2) and collects results
> > (T3).
> >
> > When A1 completes (T4), A2 is invoked (T5) which places bits on a wire for
> > A2 (T2) and collects results (T3)). Finally the results from the schedule
> > are reported (T6).
> >
> >
> >
> > T2&T3: Al considers this time to be part of the definition of the metric
> > and are reported as part of the result content (not as an actual
> > parameter). This was his Red time
> >
> >
> >
> > T4&T5: Are the ma-report-[start|end]-time
> >
> > T6: Is the ma-report-date
> >
> >
> >
> > As such – As long as an Event has a defined occurrence (T1=T0 +
> > randomness) all that is necessary is a single parameter to define the
> > occurrence.
> >
> >
> >
> > Questions?
> >
> >
> >
> > BR,
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > lmap mailing list
> > lmap@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap
> >
> >

> _______________________________________________
> lmap mailing list
> lmap@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap


-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
To: "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" <timothy.carey@nokia.com>, Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:24:45 -0400
Thread-Topic: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events
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Subject: Re: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events
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Yes, in Tf, s/start/end/.=20
Thanks for the catch,
Al
________________________________________
From: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) [timothy.carey@nokia.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 8:01 AM
To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL); Ron Stana
Cc: lmap@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events

Al,
Inline <TAC>

From: EXT MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) [mailto:acmorton@att.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 5:19 PM
To: Ron Stana; Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)
Cc: lmap@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events

Hi Ron and Tim,

trying to make a few minutes for this...

The Registry Entries* for the Metrics include Run-time Parameters
for the Start time and End Time, but one of them could be interpreted
as a Duration if specified correctly (the Start time must be all zeros,
then the Stop time is interpreted as a duration, AND the actual start
and stop time are controlled through =93other means=94). See

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-00#section-4.3=
.5

=93Other means=94 would be the Schedule object and the Event object.
As I understand it both schedule and event objects have start time
and stop time specifications available, and Event has Duration specificatio=
n
available which would be useful for recurring events (periodic or calendar)=
.

<TAC> The schedule=92s timer is sufficient to state when the initial action=
(s) are invoked. I say actions because the execution mode for the schedule=
=92s action=92s could be parallel. In the case when the schedule=92s execut=
ion mode is sequential then it would be sufficient to state when the first =
action is invoked.
What the schedule=92s timer doesn=92t do is specify the duration of the ind=
ividual action(s) or when the second action is executed in relation to the =
completion of the first action. What we would need to do is either: Pass th=
e duration of action based on the options (T0 =3D zero, Tf=3Dsome duration)=
 or we could put a timer on the action =96 which would provide the external=
 control that would allow the start to be better controlled in the context =
of the overall schedule.

Eventually, the MA has to report the results of the metric/measurement.
That=92s when the actual (RED) start and end times when packets were actual=
ly
flowing between measurement points are reported, according to the Registry =
Entry.
See:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-00#section-4.4=
.2

<TAC> These seem to be the actual =96 not configured start and end times
Interesting I think there might be a problem in the draft with Tf as it wou=
ld be =93end=94 of the interval not the =93start=94 of the interval?
   T0 the start of a measurement interval, (format "date-and-time" as
      specified in Section 5.6 of [RFC3339]<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc=
3339#section-5.6>, see also Section 3 of<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc699=
1#section-3>
      [RFC6991]<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6991#section-3>).  The UTC T=
ime Zone is required by Section 6.1 of<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2330#=
section-6.1>
      [RFC2330]<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2330#section-6.1>.

   Tf the start of a measurement interval, (format "date-and-time" as
      specified in Section 5.6 of [RFC3339]<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc=
3339#section-5.6>, see also Section 3 of<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc699=
1#section-3>
      [RFC6991]<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6991#section-3>).  The UTC T=
ime Zone is required by Section 6.1 of<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2330#=
section-6.1>
      [RFC2330]<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2330#section-6.1>.


As I said at the meeting, it would be good to look at some examples

which attempt to schedule the =93Act_IP_UDP_Round-trip_Delay_Poisson_95th-p=
ercentile=94

registry entry, as a Periodic event, a one-time event, and a continuous

event as Ron is suggesting.



regards,

Al

* Note that the Registry Entry for a Metric includes the Metric Definition,
the method of measurement, and Run-time parameters.


From: Ron Stana [mailto:ron.stana@viavisolutions.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 9:40 AM
To: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)
Cc: lmap@ietf.org<mailto:lmap@ietf.org>; MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
Subject: Re: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events

Tim,

The exact definition of the metric is still unclear to me since I have not =
seen an example of a test with average complexity using metrics with LMAP f=
rom beginning to end.  By average complexity I mean a test that allows inde=
pendent configuration of multiple simultaneous data flows and produces mult=
iple report formats during the test duration. The tests I mentioned previou=
sly (RFC-2544, Y.1564, Y.1731 and TWAMP) minimally require this type of sup=
port and are the main tests used in Ethernet service testing today.  None-t=
he-less, my understanding of the metric is that it defines the format of th=
e packet stream and the methodology of the transmit frequency. These are tw=
o examples from https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registr=
y-00


Act_IP_UDP_Poisson_UDP-Payload-250_One-way_Delay_Std_Dev

Act_IP_UDP_Periodic-var_UDP-Payload-142_One-way_Delay_Mean



It does not appear to define the time period over which the measurement was=
 taken.  This is good because for most tests the measurement period is a us=
er defined input parameter.  Performance monitoring tests will report the m=
etric repeatedly during the test execution.  Referring to the example in my=
 prior email, a TWAMP test would produce a group of metrics for each data s=
tream every 1, 5 or 15 minutes depending on the test configuration. It is p=
ossible the test could be configured to produce multiple reports - for exam=
ple at a short interval for troubleshooting in addition to one of the inter=
vals previously mentioned for general service monitoring. Thus, the TWAMP t=
est produces instances of metrics for an unspecified amount of time - typic=
ally until a user manually stops the test.



In summary, from my perspective, the duration of the test is outside the sc=
ope of the metric definition....but maybe I just don't understand the metri=
c definition well enough.



Ron













On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <timothy.carey=
@nokia.com<mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com>> wrote:
Ron,

Thanks for looking at this.
When I discussed this with Al indicated that these would be part of the met=
ric/action definition.

But if we would want to define a non-metric specific duration attribute of =
an individual action within the context of the overall schedule (I believe =
this is what you are requesting?) then we should assign that duration that =
results in (T4) to the action. Actually you have the same problem with T2 =
=96 within the context action =96 this offset if necessary is different fro=
m the schedule start randomness (once the process starts how long to wait b=
efore the bits hit the wire).  Maybe that is what we are missing =96 A time=
r for an action within the context of the schedule=85

Comments?

From: EXT Ron Stana [mailto:ron.stana@viavisolutions.com<mailto:ron.stana@v=
iavisolutions.com>]
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:35 PM
To: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)
Cc: lmap@ietf.org<mailto:lmap@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [lmap] LMAP: Defining the Schedule's events

Tim,

It appears you are making an assumption that each action will end on its ow=
n (T4).  While that is true for turn-up tests like RFC-2544 and Y.1564, lon=
g term performance monitoring tests like TWAMP and Y.1731 are expected to p=
roduce results 24/7 and so do not have a defined end time.  They are config=
ured with a rate to send packets, the MA measures FD, FDV and FLR and then =
the MA periodically aggregates these stats and sends them to the collector.=
  The aggregation rate is typically 1, 5 or 15 minutes so reports contain r=
olling start/end times as the test executes.

While what I describe above is the typical use case, there are other scenar=
ios where these same tests can be configured to emulate short random bursts=
. In this scenario the tests need to be configured with an initial start ti=
me, an interval to restart the test, a random start offset and a duration. =
 For example, start at 1:00 today, restart every 5 minutes thereafter, each=
 run should be offset by a random value within 4 minutes and each run shoul=
d send the data flows for 1 minute.  I think the only part of this LMAP did=
 not define was the last parameter - the test duration. While each test cou=
ld offer test-specific parameters to define its duration, I thought the pro=
posal to add the 'end' object was to provide a common approach for this.

Ron

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <timothy.carey@=
nokia.com<mailto:timothy.carey@nokia.com>> wrote:
Team,

In the IETF#95 LMAP session we had a discussion on the need for the new par=
ameters for the ma-schedule-end and ma-schedule-duration parameters, given =
that the ma-schedule-start (which is typed as an event)

We said we would show that these parameters were not needed using an exampl=
e =96 so here goes.

Lets assume we have a schedule made up of 2 actions (A1, A2) in pipeline mo=
de. The ma-schedule-start would has a periodic event:

Start April 1, 2016 at 02:00:00

End May 1, 2016 at 02:00:00

Interval 86,400 (daily)

Randomness 3600 (within the hour)

So the schedule will reoccur every day starting on April 1 beginning at 2:0=
0pm. (T0) The starting period will be random between 2:00am and 3:00am. (T1=
) This definition is sufficient for invoking A1 (T1) and is what Al conside=
rs as Blue times.

As A1 performs a test A1 places bits on the wire (T2) and collects results =
(T3).
When A1 completes (T4), A2 is invoked (T5) which places bits on a wire for =
A2 (T2) and collects results (T3)). Finally the results from the schedule a=
re reported (T6).

T2&T3: Al considers this time to be part of the definition of the metric an=
d are reported as part of the result content (not as an actual parameter). =
This was his Red time

T4&T5: Are the ma-report-[start|end]-time
T6: Is the ma-report-date

As such =96 As long as an Event has a defined occurrence (T1=3DT0 + randomn=
ess) all that is necessary is a single parameter to define the occurrence.

Questions?

BR,
Tim

_______________________________________________
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lmap@ietf.org<mailto:lmap@ietf.org>
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--_000_D33FF04551BD1jasonweiltwcablecom_
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All,

I have just uploaded the minutes from the LMAP meeting at IETF95 in Buenos =
Aires. I'd like to once again thank our notetakers, Tim Carey and Holger Wi=
ehen!

As always, let me Dan or me know if if you have any questions or edits on t=
he notes from the meeting.

The notes can be found at the following link: https://www.ietf.org/proceedi=
ngs/95/minutes/minutes-95-lmap

Thanks,

Jason

________________________________

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<div>All,</div>
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<div>I have just uploaded the minutes from the LMAP meeting at IETF95 in Bu=
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<div><br>
</div>
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Juergen,

Can you explain how we can implement RFC-7233 without modifying the LMAP
YANG model?  I don't see fields in the LMAP YANG model for returning the
specific fields defined in RFC-7233 and I don't see a generic set of fields
in the LMAP YANG model that could be used to return it either.

I think the LMAP ietf-lmap-control model should be updated to include a
generic set of read-only attributes within the agent object.  This generic
set of read-only attributes could be defined the same way was the option
object that exists within schedule/action and task objects.  This means
each read-only attribute would consist of an id and value and the value
could contain structured data.  This way, the device specific capabilities
I am asking about such as software licenses, number of simultaneous tests,
etc can be learned by the controller and the RFC-7233 data can be returned:

        +--rw interfaces
        |  +--rw interface* [name]
        |     +--rw name                        string
        |     +--rw description?                string
        |     +--rw type                        identityref
        |     +--rw enabled?                    boolean
        |     +--rw link-up-down-trap-enable?   enumeration
        |  +--ro last-started    yang:date-and-time
        +--ro interfaces-state
           +--ro interface* [name]
              +--ro name               string
              +--ro type               identityref
              +--ro admin-status       enumeration
              +--ro oper-status        enumeration
              +--ro last-change?       yang:date-and-time
              +--ro if-index           int32
              +--ro phys-address?      yang:phys-address
              +--ro higher-layer-if*   interface-state-ref
              +--ro lower-layer-if*    interface-state-ref
              +--ro speed?             yang:gauge64
              +--ro statistics
              +--ro discontinuity-time    yang:date-and-time
              +--ro in-octets?            yang:counter64
              +--ro in-unicast-pkts?      yang:counter64
              +--ro in-broadcast-pkts?    yang:counter64
              +--ro in-multicast-pkts?    yang:counter64
              +--ro in-discards?          yang:counter32
              +--ro in-errors?            yang:counter32
              +--ro in-unknown-protos?    yang:counter32
              +--ro out-octets?           yang:counter64
              +--ro out-unicast-pkts?     yang:counter64
              +--ro out-broadcast-pkts?   yang:counter64
              +--ro out-multicast-pkts?   yang:counter64
              +--ro out-discards?         yang:counter32
              +--ro out-errors?           yang:counter32

Ron

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 5:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 11:36:47PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> > Juergen,
> >
> > Steps 4,5 & 6 are performed to learn the dynamic capabilities of the MA.
> > For example, when the MA is a software-only implementation, the
> > capabilities will vary depending on what hardware it is installed on.
> > Depending on the number of CPUs, type of NIC, etc the number of tests,
> test
> > options and test parameter ranges may vary.  This is the type of
> > information that is not expected to change after the MA has been
> installed
> > but it still needs to be read at least once by the Controller.
> >
> > For support of RFC7223, are you suggesting the MA should implement an API
> > outside of the LMAP models to return that information?
> >
>
> For a YANG-based solution, RFC 7223 (and any other relevant YANG data
> model) leads to a well-defined way to obtain this information. There
> is no point in duplicating this work.
>
> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>

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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 01:36:23PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> Juergen,
> 
> Can you explain how we can implement RFC-7233 without modifying the LMAP
> YANG model?  I don't see fields in the LMAP YANG model for returning the
> specific fields defined in RFC-7233 and I don't see a generic set of fields
> in the LMAP YANG model that could be used to return it either.

He? You can implement RFC 7233 standalone. Why would there be special
fields required in LMAP?

> I think the LMAP ietf-lmap-control model should be updated to include a
> generic set of read-only attributes within the agent object.  This generic
> set of read-only attributes could be defined the same way was the option
> object that exists within schedule/action and task objects.  This means
> each read-only attribute would consist of an id and value and the value
> could contain structured data.  This way, the device specific capabilities
> I am asking about such as software licenses, number of simultaneous tests,
> etc can be learned by the controller and the RFC-7233 data can be returned:
> 
>         +--rw interfaces
>         |  +--rw interface* [name]
>         |     +--rw name                        string
>         |     +--rw description?                string
>         |     +--rw type                        identityref
>         |     +--rw enabled?                    boolean
>         |     +--rw link-up-down-trap-enable?   enumeration
>         |  +--ro last-started    yang:date-and-time
>         +--ro interfaces-state
>            +--ro interface* [name]
>               +--ro name               string
>               +--ro type               identityref
>               +--ro admin-status       enumeration
>               +--ro oper-status        enumeration
>               +--ro last-change?       yang:date-and-time
>               +--ro if-index           int32
>               +--ro phys-address?      yang:phys-address
>               +--ro higher-layer-if*   interface-state-ref
>               +--ro lower-layer-if*    interface-state-ref
>               +--ro speed?             yang:gauge64
>               +--ro statistics
>               +--ro discontinuity-time    yang:date-and-time
>               +--ro in-octets?            yang:counter64
>               +--ro in-unicast-pkts?      yang:counter64
>               +--ro in-broadcast-pkts?    yang:counter64
>               +--ro in-multicast-pkts?    yang:counter64
>               +--ro in-discards?          yang:counter32
>               +--ro in-errors?            yang:counter32
>               +--ro in-unknown-protos?    yang:counter32
>               +--ro out-octets?           yang:counter64
>               +--ro out-unicast-pkts?     yang:counter64
>               +--ro out-broadcast-pkts?   yang:counter64
>               +--ro out-multicast-pkts?   yang:counter64
>               +--ro out-discards?         yang:counter32
>               +--ro out-errors?           yang:counter32

This does not make sense to me. Why solve a problem that has already
been solved? There is really nothing that says a controller is only
allowed to look at LMAP objects. It is a feature to not repeat what
has already been specified elsewhere.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>,  Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>, lmap@ietf.org, alissa@cooperw.in
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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Juergen,

I thought the goal of LMAP was to provide a common API for managing test
devices; providing a specific implementation for common operations and a
pass-thru mechanism for device-specific data.  Since it does that for
tests, I thought it was trying to do that for capabilities and status as
well.  From your response it seems like it is expecting proprietary APIs to
be used for obtaining status and capability information not defined by
LMAP.  Please confirm and if this is correct I would propose that this be
stated in the LMAP documentation. Note that I am not arguing for one way or
the other, I am just trying to understand what is expected.

Ron

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 01:36:23PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> > Juergen,
> >
> > Can you explain how we can implement RFC-7233 without modifying the LMAP
> > YANG model?  I don't see fields in the LMAP YANG model for returning the
> > specific fields defined in RFC-7233 and I don't see a generic set of
> fields
> > in the LMAP YANG model that could be used to return it either.
>
> He? You can implement RFC 7233 standalone. Why would there be special
> fields required in LMAP?
>
> > I think the LMAP ietf-lmap-control model should be updated to include a
> > generic set of read-only attributes within the agent object.  This
> generic
> > set of read-only attributes could be defined the same way was the option
> > object that exists within schedule/action and task objects.  This means
> > each read-only attribute would consist of an id and value and the value
> > could contain structured data.  This way, the device specific
> capabilities
> > I am asking about such as software licenses, number of simultaneous
> tests,
> > etc can be learned by the controller and the RFC-7233 data can be
> returned:
> >
> >         +--rw interfaces
> >         |  +--rw interface* [name]
> >         |     +--rw name                        string
> >         |     +--rw description?                string
> >         |     +--rw type                        identityref
> >         |     +--rw enabled?                    boolean
> >         |     +--rw link-up-down-trap-enable?   enumeration
> >         |  +--ro last-started    yang:date-and-time
> >         +--ro interfaces-state
> >            +--ro interface* [name]
> >               +--ro name               string
> >               +--ro type               identityref
> >               +--ro admin-status       enumeration
> >               +--ro oper-status        enumeration
> >               +--ro last-change?       yang:date-and-time
> >               +--ro if-index           int32
> >               +--ro phys-address?      yang:phys-address
> >               +--ro higher-layer-if*   interface-state-ref
> >               +--ro lower-layer-if*    interface-state-ref
> >               +--ro speed?             yang:gauge64
> >               +--ro statistics
> >               +--ro discontinuity-time    yang:date-and-time
> >               +--ro in-octets?            yang:counter64
> >               +--ro in-unicast-pkts?      yang:counter64
> >               +--ro in-broadcast-pkts?    yang:counter64
> >               +--ro in-multicast-pkts?    yang:counter64
> >               +--ro in-discards?          yang:counter32
> >               +--ro in-errors?            yang:counter32
> >               +--ro in-unknown-protos?    yang:counter32
> >               +--ro out-octets?           yang:counter64
> >               +--ro out-unicast-pkts?     yang:counter64
> >               +--ro out-broadcast-pkts?   yang:counter64
> >               +--ro out-multicast-pkts?   yang:counter64
> >               +--ro out-discards?         yang:counter32
> >               +--ro out-errors?           yang:counter32
>
> This does not make sense to me. Why solve a problem that has already
> been solved? There is really nothing that says a controller is only
> allowed to look at LMAP objects. It is a feature to not repeat what
> has already been specified elsewhere.
>
> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>

--001a114231200d9bd505314eb851
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Juergen,<div><br></div><div>I thought the goal of LMAP was=
 to provide a common API for managing test devices; providing a specific im=
plementation for common operations and a pass-thru mechanism for device-spe=
cific data.=C2=A0 Since it does that for tests, I thought it was trying to =
do that for capabilities and status as well.=C2=A0 From your response it se=
ems like it is expecting proprietary APIs to be used for obtaining status a=
nd capability information not defined by LMAP.=C2=A0 Please confirm and if =
this is correct I would propose that this be stated in the LMAP documentati=
on. Note that I am not arguing for one way or the other, I am just trying t=
o understand what is expected.</div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 =
at 4:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j=
.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" target=3D"_blank">j.schoenwaelder@jaco=
bs-university.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On=
 Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 01:36:23PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:<br>
&gt; Juergen,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Can you explain how we can implement RFC-7233 without modifying the LM=
AP<br>
&gt; YANG model?=C2=A0 I don&#39;t see fields in the LMAP YANG model for re=
turning the<br>
&gt; specific fields defined in RFC-7233 and I don&#39;t see a generic set =
of fields<br>
&gt; in the LMAP YANG model that could be used to return it either.<br>
<br>
He? You can implement RFC 7233 standalone. Why would there be special<br>
fields required in LMAP?<br>
<br>
&gt; I think the LMAP ietf-lmap-control model should be updated to include =
a<br>
&gt; generic set of read-only attributes within the agent object.=C2=A0 Thi=
s generic<br>
&gt; set of read-only attributes could be defined the same way was the opti=
on<br>
&gt; object that exists within schedule/action and task objects.=C2=A0 This=
 means<br>
&gt; each read-only attribute would consist of an id and value and the valu=
e<br>
&gt; could contain structured data.=C2=A0 This way, the device specific cap=
abilities<br>
&gt; I am asking about such as software licenses, number of simultaneous te=
sts,<br>
&gt; etc can be learned by the controller and the RFC-7233 data can be retu=
rned:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw interfaces<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw interface* [name]<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw name=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 string<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw descriptio=
n?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 string<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw type=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 identityref<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw enabled?=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 boole=
an<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw link-up-do=
wn-trap-enable?=C2=A0 =C2=A0enumeration<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--ro last-started=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 yang:date-and-time<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro interfaces-state<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--ro interface* [name]<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro name=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0string<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro type=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0identityref<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro admin-stat=
us=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0enumeration<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro oper-statu=
s=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 enumeration<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro last-chang=
e?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0yang:date-and-time<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro if-index=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0int32<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro phys-addre=
ss?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 yang:phys-address<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro higher-lay=
er-if*=C2=A0 =C2=A0interface-state-ref<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro lower-laye=
r-if*=C2=A0 =C2=A0 interface-state-ref<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro speed?=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0yang:gauge64<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro statistics=
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro discontinu=
ity-time=C2=A0 =C2=A0 yang:date-and-time<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro in-octets?=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 yang:counter64<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro in-unicast=
-pkts?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 yang:counter64<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro in-broadca=
st-pkts?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 yang:counter64<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro in-multica=
st-pkts?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 yang:counter64<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro in-discard=
s?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 yang:counter32<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro in-errors?=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 yang:counter32<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro in-unknown=
-protos?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 yang:counter32<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro out-octets=
?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0yang:counter64<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro out-unicas=
t-pkts?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0yang:counter64<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro out-broadc=
ast-pkts?=C2=A0 =C2=A0yang:counter64<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro out-multic=
ast-pkts?=C2=A0 =C2=A0yang:counter64<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro out-discar=
ds?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0yang:counter32<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro out-errors=
?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0yang:counter32<br>
<br>
This does not make sense to me. Why solve a problem that has already<br>
been solved? There is really nothing that says a controller is only<br>
allowed to look at LMAP objects. It is a feature to not repeat what<br>
has already been specified elsewhere.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
/js<br>
<br>
--<br>
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer=
sity Bremen gGmbH<br>
Phone: <a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20421%20200%203587" value=3D"+494212003587">+49=
 421 200 3587</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Br=
emen | Germany<br>
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20421%20200%203103" value=3D"+4942120=
03103">+49 421 200 3103</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D=
"http://www.jacobs-university.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.jacobs-university.de/</a>&gt;<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a114231200d9bd505314eb851--


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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 08:57:28AM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> Juergen,
> 
> I thought the goal of LMAP was to provide a common API for managing test
> devices; providing a specific implementation for common operations and a
> pass-thru mechanism for device-specific data.  Since it does that for
> tests, I thought it was trying to do that for capabilities and status as
> well.  From your response it seems like it is expecting proprietary APIs to
> be used for obtaining status and capability information not defined by
> LMAP.  Please confirm and if this is correct I would propose that this be
> stated in the LMAP documentation. Note that I am not arguing for one way or
> the other, I am just trying to understand what is expected.
>

There is no need to use proprietary APIs.

You can use NETCONF or RESTCONF to access the ietf-interfaces YANG
data model in the same way you use NETCONF or RESTCONF to access the
ietf-lmap-control YANG data model.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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--047d7bb04deaeb52ba0531523a68
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Juergen,

I was using the term 'proprietary' incorrectly.  I was intending it to mean
'device-specific' but it really means 'vendor-specific'.

I can see now that having additional standards-based implementations is in
agreement with LMAP and so implementing RFC-7223 outside of LMAP is
acceptable for extending the interface state information.  While this
results in device-specific implementations, they are not vendor-specific.

Concerning how an LMAP client learns the vendor specific capabilities of an
MA, are you in agreement that this would require a vendor-specific API?
Since test configurations consist of vendor-specific information and LMAP
addresses this, I thought LMAP might also provide an approach for
vendor-specific capabilities.  I can understand if this is outside the
scope of LMAP and so left for vendors to provide.

Ron

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 08:57:28AM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> > Juergen,
> >
> > I thought the goal of LMAP was to provide a common API for managing test
> > devices; providing a specific implementation for common operations and a
> > pass-thru mechanism for device-specific data.  Since it does that for
> > tests, I thought it was trying to do that for capabilities and status as
> > well.  From your response it seems like it is expecting proprietary APIs
> to
> > be used for obtaining status and capability information not defined by
> > LMAP.  Please confirm and if this is correct I would propose that this be
> > stated in the LMAP documentation. Note that I am not arguing for one way
> or
> > the other, I am just trying to understand what is expected.
> >
>
> There is no need to use proprietary APIs.
>
> You can use NETCONF or RESTCONF to access the ietf-interfaces YANG
> data model in the same way you use NETCONF or RESTCONF to access the
> ietf-lmap-control YANG data model.
>
> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>

--047d7bb04deaeb52ba0531523a68
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Juergen,<div><br></div><div>I was using the term &#39;prop=
rietary&#39; incorrectly.=C2=A0 I was intending it to mean &#39;device-spec=
ific&#39; but it really means &#39;vendor-specific&#39;.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>I can see now that having additional standards-based implementations=
 is in agreement with LMAP and so implementing RFC-7223 outside of LMAP is =
acceptable for extending the interface state information.=C2=A0 While this =
results in device-specific implementations, they are not vendor-specific.</=
div><div><br></div><div>Concerning how an LMAP client learns the vendor spe=
cific capabilities of an MA, are you in agreement that this would require a=
 vendor-specific API? Since test configurations consist of vendor-specific =
information and LMAP addresses this, I thought LMAP might also provide an a=
pproach for vendor-specific capabilities.=C2=A0 I can understand if this is=
 outside the scope of LMAP and so left for vendors to provide.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>Ron=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" =
target=3D"_blank">j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 08:57:28AM -040=
0, Ron Stana wrote:<br>
&gt; Juergen,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I thought the goal of LMAP was to provide a common API for managing te=
st<br>
&gt; devices; providing a specific implementation for common operations and=
 a<br>
&gt; pass-thru mechanism for device-specific data.=C2=A0 Since it does that=
 for<br>
&gt; tests, I thought it was trying to do that for capabilities and status =
as<br>
&gt; well.=C2=A0 From your response it seems like it is expecting proprieta=
ry APIs to<br>
&gt; be used for obtaining status and capability information not defined by=
<br>
&gt; LMAP.=C2=A0 Please confirm and if this is correct I would propose that=
 this be<br>
&gt; stated in the LMAP documentation. Note that I am not arguing for one w=
ay or<br>
&gt; the other, I am just trying to understand what is expected.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
There is no need to use proprietary APIs.<br>
<br>
You can use NETCONF or RESTCONF to access the ietf-interfaces YANG<br>
data model in the same way you use NETCONF or RESTCONF to access the<br>
ietf-lmap-control YANG data model.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
/js<br>
<br>
--<br>
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer=
sity Bremen gGmbH<br>
Phone: <a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20421%20200%203587" value=3D"+494212003587">+49=
 421 200 3587</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Br=
emen | Germany<br>
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20421%20200%203103" value=3D"+4942120=
03103">+49 421 200 3103</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D=
"http://www.jacobs-university.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.jacobs-university.de/</a>&gt;<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7bb04deaeb52ba0531523a68--


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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 01:08:48PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> Juergen,
> 
> I was using the term 'proprietary' incorrectly.  I was intending it to mean
> 'device-specific' but it really means 'vendor-specific'.
> 
> I can see now that having additional standards-based implementations is in
> agreement with LMAP and so implementing RFC-7223 outside of LMAP is
> acceptable for extending the interface state information.  While this
> results in device-specific implementations, they are not vendor-specific.
> 
> Concerning how an LMAP client learns the vendor specific capabilities of an
> MA, are you in agreement that this would require a vendor-specific API?

No.

> Since test configurations consist of vendor-specific information and LMAP
> addresses this, I thought LMAP might also provide an approach for
> vendor-specific capabilities.  I can understand if this is outside the
> scope of LMAP and so left for vendors to provide.

RFC 7223 is as interoperable as the LMAP YANG data model. There is a
standard mechanism to discover the data models supported, the details
depend on the protocol. I do not understand why you see a requirement
for vendor-specific APIs from the use of RFC 7223.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>,  Ron Stana <ron.stana@viavisolutions.com>, lmap@ietf.org, alissa@cooperw.in
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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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Juergen,

RFC-7223 just offers extra information about the network interfaces.  My
original question was two-fold: how does an MA let a client know about
vendor-specific capabilities during the Controller & MA
registration/capabilities process and would the approach taken for this be
similar for extending the status to include something like RFC-7223 during
the Controller & MA status retrieval process.  I now understand if a device
wants to support RFC-7223 it just implements it outside of LMAP - thank you
for clarifying this.

The registration and capabilities exchange is a separate part of the LMAP
architecture and that is the part I am still asking about.  There will be
vendor-specific capabilities that clients of the MAs will need to obtain so
they understand the limitations of a given device and adjust test
configurations accordingly.  For example, when dealing with test devices
that are installed as virtual machines on various hardware platforms, the
number of simultaneous tests and data streams generated supported can vary
based on the amount of memory, hard drive space and NIC.  These same
capabilities could also be limited by licenses/software options.  I am
trying to determine if this type of information is expected to be obtained
by the controller during the capabilities exchange or if it is done outside
of LMAP.

Ron



On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 01:08:48PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> > Juergen,
> >
> > I was using the term 'proprietary' incorrectly.  I was intending it to
> mean
> > 'device-specific' but it really means 'vendor-specific'.
> >
> > I can see now that having additional standards-based implementations is
> in
> > agreement with LMAP and so implementing RFC-7223 outside of LMAP is
> > acceptable for extending the interface state information.  While this
> > results in device-specific implementations, they are not vendor-specific.
> >
> > Concerning how an LMAP client learns the vendor specific capabilities of
> an
> > MA, are you in agreement that this would require a vendor-specific API?
>
> No.
>
> > Since test configurations consist of vendor-specific information and LMAP
> > addresses this, I thought LMAP might also provide an approach for
> > vendor-specific capabilities.  I can understand if this is outside the
> > scope of LMAP and so left for vendors to provide.
>
> RFC 7223 is as interoperable as the LMAP YANG data model. There is a
> standard mechanism to discover the data models supported, the details
> depend on the protocol. I do not understand why you see a requirement
> for vendor-specific APIs from the use of RFC 7223.
>
> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>

--047d7bb0402a955c95053153ba9c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Juergen,<div><br></div><div>RFC-7223 just offers extra inf=
ormation about the network interfaces.=C2=A0 My original question was two-f=
old: how does an MA let a client know about vendor-specific capabilities du=
ring the Controller &amp; MA registration/capabilities process and would th=
e approach taken for this be similar for extending the status to include so=
mething like RFC-7223 during the Controller &amp; MA status retrieval proce=
ss.=C2=A0 I now understand if a device wants to support RFC-7223 it just im=
plements it outside of LMAP - thank you for clarifying this. =C2=A0</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>The registration and capabilities exchange is a separate =
part of the LMAP architecture and that is the part I am still asking about.=
=C2=A0 There will be vendor-specific capabilities that clients of the MAs w=
ill need to obtain so they understand the limitations of a given device and=
 adjust test configurations accordingly.=C2=A0 For example, when dealing wi=
th test devices that are installed as virtual machines on various hardware =
platforms, the number of simultaneous tests and data streams generated supp=
orted can vary based on the amount of memory, hard drive space and NIC.=C2=
=A0 These same capabilities could also be limited by licenses/software opti=
ons.=C2=A0 I am trying to determine if this type of information is expected=
 to be obtained by the controller during the capabilities exchange or if it=
 is done outside of LMAP. =C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" =
target=3D"_blank">j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 01:08:48PM -040=
0, Ron Stana wrote:<br>
&gt; Juergen,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I was using the term &#39;proprietary&#39; incorrectly.=C2=A0 I was in=
tending it to mean<br>
&gt; &#39;device-specific&#39; but it really means &#39;vendor-specific&#39=
;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I can see now that having additional standards-based implementations i=
s in<br>
&gt; agreement with LMAP and so implementing RFC-7223 outside of LMAP is<br=
>
&gt; acceptable for extending the interface state information.=C2=A0 While =
this<br>
&gt; results in device-specific implementations, they are not vendor-specif=
ic.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Concerning how an LMAP client learns the vendor specific capabilities =
of an<br>
&gt; MA, are you in agreement that this would require a vendor-specific API=
?<br>
<br>
No.<br>
<br>
&gt; Since test configurations consist of vendor-specific information and L=
MAP<br>
&gt; addresses this, I thought LMAP might also provide an approach for<br>
&gt; vendor-specific capabilities.=C2=A0 I can understand if this is outsid=
e the<br>
&gt; scope of LMAP and so left for vendors to provide.<br>
<br>
RFC 7223 is as interoperable as the LMAP YANG data model. There is a<br>
standard mechanism to discover the data models supported, the details<br>
depend on the protocol. I do not understand why you see a requirement<br>
for vendor-specific APIs from the use of RFC 7223.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
/js<br>
<br>
--<br>
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer=
sity Bremen gGmbH<br>
Phone: <a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20421%20200%203587" value=3D"+494212003587">+49=
 421 200 3587</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Br=
emen | Germany<br>
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"http://www.jacobs-university.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.jacobs-university.de/</a>&gt;<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Subject: Re: [lmap] Learning MA Capabilities
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On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 02:56:05PM -0400, Ron Stana wrote:
> Juergen,
> 
> RFC-7223 just offers extra information about the network interfaces.  My
> original question was two-fold: how does an MA let a client know about
> vendor-specific capabilities during the Controller & MA
> registration/capabilities process and would the approach taken for this be
> similar for extending the status to include something like RFC-7223 during
> the Controller & MA status retrieval process.  I now understand if a device
> wants to support RFC-7223 it just implements it outside of LMAP - thank you
> for clarifying this.
> 
> The registration and capabilities exchange is a separate part of the LMAP
> architecture and that is the part I am still asking about.  There will be
> vendor-specific capabilities that clients of the MAs will need to obtain so
> they understand the limitations of a given device and adjust test
> configurations accordingly.  For example, when dealing with test devices
> that are installed as virtual machines on various hardware platforms, the
> number of simultaneous tests and data streams generated supported can vary
> based on the amount of memory, hard drive space and NIC.  These same
> capabilities could also be limited by licenses/software options.  I am
> trying to determine if this type of information is expected to be obtained
> by the controller during the capabilities exchange or if it is done outside
> of LMAP.

The LMAP capability definitions cover hardware and firmware
description and the version of the measurement agent. This is about
it. If a vendor wants to provide additional information, the vendor
can extend the models. Note that there is already some resistance to
report or control the storage managed by the LMAP agent itself.

The good news is that there may be eventually an equivalent of the
HOST-RESOURCES-MIB in the YANG world and that would give you at least
some information about storage and processing resources - but from
that you would still not know how many tests you can run concurrently
without risking the tests to impact each other. I guess this is all
out of scope for now, we are better off with trying to finish LMAP
version 1, getting implementation and deployment experience, and then
we hopefully better understand what needs to be changed or added.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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