Subject: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag

From: John Cowan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:23:56 -0400

In case you missed it (it was embedded in another posting), I proposed
the -t0- subtag to indicate a transformation path: thus en-t-fr-t0-sq
would indicate text translated from Albanian to French and then to
English (as is often done with Albanian literature because of the lack
of clear copyright law in Albania, so that no one knows who has rights
to what).

Formally, this subtag is needed because stacked -t- extensions are
forbidden by RFC 5646.

-- 
He played King Lear as though           John Cowan <[email-masked]>
someone had played the ace.             http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
        --Eugene Field

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From: Mark Davis ☕ <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:03:29 -0700

Thanks. It would be possible to do it that way.

I'm a bit hesitant to do so, however, until we've had more experience with
use cases. With regular language tags, for example, I cannot indicate that I
speak Californian English with the pin-pen merger. That isn't a specious
example; some people somewhere care deeply about these kinds of
distinctions. We could have arbitrarily complicated chains of "influence":
this content was Georgian translated into Russian (but by a native Ukrainian
speaker), then transliterated into Portuguese, then translated into British
English according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_As_She_Is_Spoke.

Ok, that's a bit fanciful. But the point is that I think we need to get some
more experience with 2 levels (source+target) before we see what makes sense
beyond that. For those people with particular immediate requirements, a
mechanism could be used in the meantime.

Mark
*— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —*

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From: John Cowan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:26:13 -0400

Mark Davis â?? scripsit:

> speak Californian English with the pin-pen merger. 

Well, unless you register a variant subtag such as "inkpin".

> mechanism could be used in the meantime.

My concern is that the -t-...-t- mechanism would come to be used, which would
violate the RFC.

-- 
Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out.
        --Arthur C. Clarke, "The Nine Billion Names of God"
                John Cowan <[email-masked]>

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From: Mark Davis ☕ <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:41:35 -0700

Mark

> Well, unless you register a variant subtag such as "inkpin".

That doesn't scale well -- but I'd rather not pursue that topic, since we'll
end up diverting from the main issues.

> My concern is that the -t-...-t- mechanism would come to be used, which

We already see the far more common en-GB-FR (meaning en-GB and the user is
currently in FR). There are so many other ways to violate the BCP47 RFC that
duplicate -t- extensions pale in comparison. Any implementation of BCP47
already needs to deal with goofy tags.

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From: "Broome, Karen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 08:06:31 -0700

Forgive me if I’m only able to skim these e-mails, but I’m wondering if there might be a parallel here with a use case like: English language film gets translated into Spoken Japanese (dubbed) for one market/format and Written Japanese (subtitles/captions/AD) for another.

Regards,

Karen Broome
Sony Electronics

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Mark Davis ?
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 3:03 AM
To: John Cowan
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag

I'm a bit hesitant to do so, however, until we've had more experience with use cases. With regular language tags, for example, I cannot indicate that I speak Californian English with the pin-pen merger. That isn't a specious example; some people somewhere care deeply about these kinds of distinctions. We could have arbitrarily complicated chains of "influence": this content was Georgian translated into Russian (but by a native Ukrainian speaker), then transliterated into Portuguese, then translated into British English according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_As_She_Is_Spoke.

Ok, that's a bit fanciful. But the point is that I think we need to get some more experience with 2 levels (source+target) before we see what makes sense beyond that. For those people with particular immediate requirements, a mechanism could be used in the meantime.

Mark
— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 09:23, John Cowan <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote: