Subject: [NEXTEL-1] Re: PTT

From: Marcel <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 16:33:11 -0400

-------- Original Message --------
From: Jack Daniel <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:  PTT

Andy,

Thanks for the comments.

There is an inherent degradation in reliability, utility and capacity
during emergencies when public safety agencies use for-profit carrier
(Nextel, Cellular, PCS) services.

I know I don't need to preach to you; you understand it is a major
disaster waiting to happen. I believe most public safety wireless
professionals know this too.

But how do we get a message the politicians, administrators, IT managers
and other non-technical people that make these terribly ignorant
decisions?

The carriers, and especially Nextel, are expert in distorting the fact
their systems are the worse possible wireless link to rely upon in an
event like 9-11.
They have lectured potential customers that back-ups were wasteful and
to listen to the "bean counters" instead of technical experts. They
parse their hype to intentionally mislead the facts.

And they do so much of this in press releases and public forums it takes
on the appearance of truth. and they very seldom correct an uninformed
reporter when the reporter restates their in a totally incorrect
statement if the error is positive for the carrier.

Have you considered focusing a few of your articles on this theme, or
have I just missed them?

There's plenty of items to select from;
- The fallacy that common carrier wireless providers are adequate for
public safety.

- The fallacy of the 'consensus' plan that rewards the problem maker and
uses FCC lobbying, cooers ion and influence to gather supporters.

- The lack of technical consideration in FCC plans and rules have
undermined the full use of wireless as an enabler of American
competition and economic growth, domestically and globally. 

- The conversion of invaluable and irreplaceable public property
(spectrum) to private property of the "auction" winners. 

- etc.

Jack Daniel
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---

From: "Bulldog" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:10:31 -0000

The major obstacle is that Nextel has all these features and their 
point of entry is cheap.  It's fiscally responsible to choose Nextel.

Look for Nextel to dominate the public safety channel.  In light of 
that, who needs phones?  The Dawg's gotta eat.

--- In [email-masked], Marcel <Marcelrf@B...> wrote:
> From: Jack Daniel <JackDaniel@R...>
> Subject: Re:  PTT
> 
> 
> Andy,
> 
> Thanks for the comments.
> 

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---

From: Marcel <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 18:21:00 -0400

True- But the reoccurring costs are the killer!

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---

From: Jack Daniel <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 18:36:26 -0700

Sorry my friend, no carrier can really serve the needs of public safety.
The basic diferences between 'maximum profit' and 'maximum
survivability' system designs won't allow them to be the same. Abd 'good
enough' isn't when lives are at stake.
 
The financial argument presented by carriers to public safety ignores
loss of unrecoverable spectrum access and eternal taxpayer slavery to
service charges and handset obsolesence costs. Carriers do not present
apples and apples comparison of system redundancy, reliability,
survivability, security, privacy and serviceability. 

If a public safety agency switches to a common carrier for wireless,
they will face poor coverage in places that are not 'profitable' to
cover, not be able to implement or control systems changes, they can't
pace the replacement of handsets with tax revenues (everyone but the
public knows every Nextel handset they today will probably have to be
replaced in the near future). What other public services will the city
have to give up when Nextel increases their prices? 

As a friend of mine says; you can put a dress on a pig, but it's still a
pig.

I really like the 'if it doesn't work out, you can always go back' pitch
one carrier likes to use. Yeh, > IF < you can buy back some spectrum,
throw away all your obsolete handsets, buy a complete new private system
and wait a few years to get it funded and implemented. Yea.. you can
change back if you have several million bucks you aren't using.

There's a lot of places these products fit and you are more than capable
of selling a lot to those markets. 

Anyway, I think in your heart and experiences you know the differences
between public safety and for-profit carrier systems.

But I may be wrong........
Jack Daniel
===============================================

Bulldog wrote:
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---

From: "Mark" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 02:04:44 -0000

Amen to that Jack..well said!

There are plenty of gov't owned public safety radio systems that far 
exceed the performance and reliability of the commercial operators 
(Including mine :).  

When my users query about NEXTEL why we aren't on NEXTEL, I ask them 
flat out:
Do you want to compete for airtime with Joe the plumber, the family 
in the mall, and the other nonsense communications that occur on 
commercial wireless systems?  They think about it for a second and 
go...yep we sure don't!  Case closed.

Mark

--- In [email-masked], Jack Daniel <JackDaniel@R...> wrote:
> > > The carriers, and especially Nextel, are expert in distorting 
the
> > fact
> > > their systems are the worse possible wireless link to rely upon 
in
> > an
> > > event like 9-11.
> > > They have lectured potential customers that back-ups were 
wasteful
> > and
> > > And they do so much of this in press releases and public forums 
it
> > takes
> > > Have you considered focusing a few of your articles on this 
theme,
> > or
> > > - The fallacy that common carrier wireless providers are 
adequate
> > for

---

From: Marcel <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:09:04 -0400

Even the PSWN people acknowledge Nextel's problems:

<SNIP>

PUBLIC SAFETY WIRELESS NETWORK (PSWN) PROGRAM MANAGEMENT OFFICE ON NEXTEL

ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD CONSIDER SEVERAL ISSUES WHEN EVALUATING NEXTEL SERVICES

· Organizations must consider the costs of using Nextel services
- Versus other commercial services
- Versus upgrading or replacing private LMR infrastructure

· Security considerations will determine the extent to which Nextel services are used by
individual public safety
organizations

- The Nextel network does not support encryption

- Digital TDMA has privacy attributes but should not be considered completely secure

· Commercial service customers of the same provider are competing equities for limited
resources, so unless
priority access is available to public safety users, there will always be a reliability
concern

- Nextel networks are designed with grades of service similar to other commercial wireless
networks which experience congestion

•• 2 percent cellular GOS

•• 5 percent dispatch GOS

- The effect of large subscriber growth on system capacity is unknown

· As a customer, a public safety user will have little control over network performance and
maintenance; there have
been instances of prolonged network outages

· Despite aggressive deployment of Nextel’s digital network, the network is still in its
early stage and lacks the
coverage of more mature commercial wireless networks, however, this should be resolved over
the next 3 to 5
years

(www.pswn.gov)

---

From: "Bill Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:59:39 -0400

Subject: Re: [NEXTEL-1] Re: PTT

>The basic differences between 'maximum profit' and 'maximum survivability'
>system designs won't allow them to be the same. And 'good enough' isn't
>when lives are at stake. 

Absolutely correct again Jack. For admin functions, sure, Nextel or any
other carrier is fine. You can wait for access and retry if you need to. You
can move if you can't access the system. You can't do that in an emergency.
Priority access? A joke to be sure. Not worth a hill of beans if you can't
acquire the system.

When the community grows, how easy is it going to be getting commercial
systems to add coverage? If you get them to do it, they will have a much
harder time getting past NIMBY than the local PS agencies.

The Mass State Police 800 system has its redundant controllers tied into a
statewide microwave ring for all key sites. Lose that, it goes to site
trunk. Lose that? Go to the conventional NSPSAC channels. Lose them? Go to
the old faithful 42 MHz system. All sites have UPS and generator.

Verizon is the closest I have seen to this level of redundancy. One site
near me has microwave and fiber T's as well. They have a battery plant and
generator. Unfortunately they only have one A/C unit and if commercial power
or the generator fails, as I know from personal experience, it gets hot real
quick in there.

As has been stated before, design criteria are, and must be, fundamentally
different. Commercial has to go where the people are or else. Public safety
has to go everywhere.

It is a shame that this is even an issue. Too many decision makers in P/S
fall for the sizzle and glitz of Nextel's multi-state D/C and fail to
investigate the real life performance in their own communities.

---

From: Marcel <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:29:49 -0400

> the old faithful 42 MHz system. All sites have UPS and generator.

Nextel redundancy???

Let's see in Florida Sprint lost a fiber TWICE and Nextel went down like a rock for an
undetermined about of time.

See: Nextel Knocked Out In Florida Again! Timmy Can You Hear Me Now???

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEXTEL-1/message/6561

and

  Nextel's System Goes Down On Cable Cut
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEXTEL-1/message/5773

So now you must worry about Sprint also and who know who else!