Subject: [NEXTEL-1] Re: Why do magazines keep pushing Commercial radio

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:50:49 -0400

-------- Original Message --------
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [APCO Exchange:] Re: Why do magazines keep pushing Commercial
radio
To: [email-masked]

The following new message has been posted on APCO Exchange Forum at 
<http://www.apco911.org/theexchange/index.cgi>. 

*************************************************************************** 

  MESSAGE:  (#2766) Re: Why do magazines keep pushing Commercial radio 
            <http://www.apco911.org/theexchange/index.cgi?rev=2766> 
  AUTHOR:   Steve Makky, Sr 
  DATE:     Thursday, 22 April 2004, at 8:50 p.m. 

  Reply To: (#2762) Why do magazines keep pushing Commercial radio 
  Author:   Howard Tucker 
  Date:     Thursday, 22 April 2004, at 5:10 p.m. 

Some magazines seem to be more "look-at-me" infomercials than forums to
present information that is helpful to others. You have to read them
with those see-through glasses found in the back of comic books to be
able to read through the hype.

My pet peeve (after having used such a system in support of the World
Trade Center tragedy) are the ads showing cellphones as the preferred
platform for interoperability amongst responders. I just fail to see the
safety or utility in having a one-to-one capability (through
infrastructure, no less) in a managed incident - with diminished or
discouraged use of one-to-many. I realize that new models marketed to
public safety now have 900 MHz spread spectrum direct capabilities
without using infrastructure, but the boat was missed when the devices
could not be compatible with P25 and able to communicate on 800 and 700
MHz public safety interoperability frequencies (or on public safety
SMRs).

Sadly, (in my opinion, at least) these devices fill a niche to
compensate for inadequate communications systems. For agencies who have
built out a single channel system, these devices handle the overflow for
administrative and non-dispatch related traffic. Even sadder are
situations where responders buy their own and pay for their own
subscriptions just to be part of the group, or (even sadder still) "for
[their] own safety," because in their judgement, the ESMR has better
performance than their internal means of communications.

Yes,they're out there.

I've got fairly strong opinions on this, but I suspect I'd be preaching
to the chior.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:52:50 -0400

Steve,

I echo you sentiments, however one CMRS carrier SPRINT PCS has done "The
Right Thing" when it comes to its push-to-talk product and issued a
disclaimer that reads in part.......

===================================================================================

"PCS Ready Link: Requires a PCS Ready Link phone. Service will only work
in conjunction with other PCS Ready Link phones while on the enhanced
Sprint Nationwide PCS Network. PCS Ready Link may not be appropriate for
use by providers of emergency services. It will take several seconds to
establish the initial PCS Ready Link connection;
users may experience slight delays in subsequent "in session"
communications. Only one person can speak at a time when in session. PCS
Ready Link calls are terminated when you press "End" or after 20 seconds
of inactivity. While in a PCS Ready Link session, voice calls will go
directly to voicemail. When on a voice call, using PCS Vision
or out of coverage, PCS Ready Link calls will not be completed."
======================================================================================

I think this is excellent, and while I'm not a Sprint fan they should be
applauded for not misrepresenting their product.

http://www.sprint.com/pcsbusiness/promotions/readylink.html
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PCS Vision Ready Link Phones from Sprint make it easy for your employees to stay connected to the people and information they need to be productive while working away from the office on the nation's most complete, all-digital wireless network. Now, when your company purchases a PCS Vision Ready Link Phone, your employees can try it for up to 60 days. If not fully satisfied, you can return the device within 60 days of purchase and receive a full refund of the net purchase price.

PCS Vision Ready Link Phones

PCS Ready LinkSM lets your employees enjoy quick, walkietalkie-style communication with just the touch of a button across the advanced Sprint Nationwide PCS Network. PCS Vision Ready Link Phones also provide your employees with one number for both walkie-talkie style and regular calls; real-time access to PCS VisionSM with Web, Messaging and Picture MailSM applications; and a Web-based directory that enables them to maintain secure, up-to-date contact lists.

PCS Ready Link: Requires a PCS Ready Link phone. Service will only work in conjunction with other PCS Ready Link phones while on the enhanced Sprint Nationwide PCS Network. PCS Ready Link may not be appropriate for use by providers of emergency services. It will take several seconds to establish the initial PCS Ready Link connection; users may experience slight delays in subsequent "in session" communications. Only one person can speak at a time when in session. PCS Ready Link calls are terminated when you press "End" or after 20 seconds of inactivity. While in a PCS Ready Link session, voice calls will go directly to voicemail. When on a voice call, using PCS Vision or out of coverage, PCS Ready Link calls will not be completed. You cannot add, delete or modify your PCS Ready Link contact list from your phone, or prevent others who have your wireless phone number from adding you to their contact list. You cannot block your phone number from Caller ID when making a PCS Ready Link call. Copyright ©2003 Sprint Spectrum L.P. All rights reserved. Sprint, the diamond logo and all other Sprint marks are trademarks of Sprint Communications Company L.P. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.

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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:13:48 -0400

The problem is that iDEN was NEVER designed for Public Safety use. "Direct
Connect" is not APCO 16, or 25 compliant. Integrating a device that was never
intended for Public Safety use to a CAD system increases the liability of the
PSAP, even on a secondary basis.

"Priority Access" only places the user at the beginning of the "Cue". If all
channels are busy the Public Safety User will not be able to access the system at
ALL until a user (non-public Safety or P/S) releases the channel. In an emergency
this is unacceptable. In a major emergency most of the cellsites only have 8hrs
of battery life and only a few have generators.
The cellsites are dependent on other carriers (Sprint, MCI, Quest, etc.) to
provide the transport which is shared by the public at some level. (T1's /DS3
/OC-12 ) back to the switch.  The 2-way pager uses the same transport provided by
others and shared by the public.

Nextel is subject to failure by multiple carriers during an emergency. A perfect
example of this was the Blackout of 2003.
The "Moto-talk" (off network Comm) uses spread spectrum on the overcrowded 900
mhz ISM band.
Nextel will bill customer for this service.

The ISM (unlicensed / un protected from interference.) band is the same band
cordless phones, baby monitors, video transmitters use.

The i325ps (1st iDEN P/S unit due out) is nicely built but unfortunately will not
have the talk-around feature when it debuts shortly. The radio will require a
"Flash-Up Lift". The i315ps will have the talk-around feature.

Very soon the second generation Push-to-talk phones will debut. Many of the major
Manufactures have a MOU a will offer a single format that will provide
interoperabilty between carriers. this means Verizon can Talk to Sprint, Sprint
can speak to Altel ect. In addition the latency issue will be solved.  These
carriers will be priced well below Nextel $69 Non-P/S ARPU.

[email-masked] wrote:

>   MESSAGE:  (#2771) Re: Why do magazines keep pushing Commercial radio
>             <http://www.apco911.org/theexchange/index.cgi?rev=2771>
>   AUTHOR:   Susan Kalish
>   DATE:     Monday, 26 April 2004, at 6:15 a.m.
>
>   Reply To: (#2768) Re: Why do magazines keep pushing Commercial radio
>   Author:   Marcel
>   Date:     Friday, 23 April 2004, at 2:52 a.m.
>
> As a primary system, I agree with the responders. But for a parallel or
> secondary system, I really think that Nextel can work for publish safety.
> Ignore the cell phone side of it...cell's are a dime a dozen. But the push to
> talk or direct connect is an 800 MgH trunked radio system that can be
> integrated into CAD. It has talk groups, and gives public safety priority
> connect. In a month or so they will also offer a Talk Around feature. You've
> also got a two way pager that's not on the public phone line. All on one
> ruggedized Motorola handset.
>
> Certainly not a primary system, but for backup, it's pretty robust.

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:35:44 -0400

I agree with you Susan,

There should be a disclaimer concerning Push-To-Talk systems used in public safety
applications.

Using Nextel as a "Back-up" or "Secondary" communication device has its problems
as one poster here has pointed out. Communications on the Nextel / iDEN network
are typically not recorded (But can be with right interface). There is no-way to
"Override" a transmission in case of emergency as in a "conventional"
(non-trunked) system. As many dispatchers know and do in an emergency.

There are many misconceptions when it comes to the use of Push-To-Talk. Many of
these misconceptions are repeated by our trusted public safety officials because
they believe what they have been told by wireless carriers.

1) PTT- Uses a "Private Network" and is not susceptible to failure from outside
carriers because all traffic is carried with its own network.

1A) This is simply not true as I said before outside carriers provide the
transport and are susceptible to failure. If any one would like to see incidents
when an outside carrier caused a failure of PTT I will be glad to provide it.

2) PTT- Worked Flawlessly in 9/11

2A) PTT- Worked marginally. Again if anyone is interested in messages from those
who were there I would be glad to share them.

3) Nextel/iDEN is  "a true 800 MHz radio system"

3A) Nextel/ iDEN is not "a true 800 MHz radio system" as some may think. It is a
ESMR network that uses cellular type architecture to provide PTT. The only thing
that remotely resembles a "true 800 MHz radio system" are the SMR frequencies that
it operates on. It is a Packet based digital network that uses a TDMA M-16 QAM air
interface.

Read More Here: http://idenphones.motorola.com/idenHome/common/what_is_iden.jsp

4)  Nextel/ iDEN is a tool for Public Safety.

4A) Nextel / iDEN is tool for BUSINESS only.
Nextel and some other iDEN carriers have implied that this is a public safety
tool. If you read Motorola's description below you will see there is NO mention of
public safety.

The iDEN Solution

First introduced in 1994, Motorola's Integrated Digital Enhanced Network (iDEN)
brought to the market next generation wireless solutions designed for a variety of
vertical market mobile business applications. Today, iDEN wireless handsets are
utilized in a variety of work environments ranging from manufacturing floors to
executive conference rooms as well as mobile sales forces. Read it for
yourself.....
http://idenphones.motorola.com/idenHome/common/what_is_iden.jsp

Nextel / iDEN has its place, but using a device for which it is not intended for
has it consequences.

5) Nextel's Direct Connect works on a separate radio network.

5A) Nextel's interconnect and Direct Connect all travel across the same airwaves
(within the same 17 Mhz of bandwidth). It all goes across the same T1 back to the
switch. The only separation is at the Dispatch Application Processor (DAP at the
switch). The Dispatch Application Processor coordinates and controls the Direct
Connect dispatch service

- Processes Private, Group, and Alert Calls

- Contains subscriber data on individual fleet and unit information, dispatch and
ID features, subscriber talkgroup information, and a unit's calling privileges.
The DAP still requires other resources that are shared with the "Interconnect"
(cellular) feature.

6)Nextel / iDEN easily implemented means of communicating with these other
agencies within their existing budgets,

6A)Cost of owner ship is not cheap. The Lifetime Revenue Per Wireless Subscriber
for Nextel is $4,303 as of 2Q03(for consumers and X 2.5 $10,757.5)for P/S.

 http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Sloan-School-of-Management/15-020Fall2003/47239EEB-7BB2-4AFD-9834-75E29637DD2B/0/lec10_nextel.pdf

For a small department consisting of 100 officers this represents a OPEX
(Operating expense) of over $1 Million dollars and the department has no
additional assets to show. $1 million can buy a lot of solutions to provide
interoperability.

There are many more "myths" about Nextel/iDEN that have been circulated for many
years and many people believe what wireless carriers tell them.

I say to everyone - Do your own due diligence, just don't regurgitate what your
wireless carrier tells you. This goes for all carriers just not Nextel, because
the liability will fall on YOUR department not Nextel if something should happen.

BTW- Everyone should read Nextel's Liability disclaimer-

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY - Nextel nor any of its affiliates, nor the directors,
employees or other representatives of any of them, is liable for damages arising
out of or in connection in any way with the use of or inability to use the Site,
Materials, products, services or applications. This is a comprehensive limitation
of liability that applies to all damages of any kind, including but not limited
to, compensatory, direct, indirect or consequential damages, loss of data,
programs, income or profit, loss of or damage to property and claims of third
parties.

Coverage-
Coverage boundaries, shown herein as of Aug 2003 are approximate and for
illustrative purposes only.  Coverage shown on the coverage maps is a general
prediction of outdoor coverage, and does not guarantee that coverage will be
available at all covered geographic areas at all times.  Wireless coverage is
impacted by, among other things, terrain, weather, antenna location, system
modification, foliage and man-made structures (such as buildings), and therefore
cannot be predicted precisely at all times. Nextel's Nationwide Network serves 293
of the top 300 markets.

[email-masked] wrote:

>   MESSAGE:  (#2780) Re: Why do magazines keep pushing Commercial radio
>             <http://www.apco911.org/theexchange/index.cgi?rev=2780>
>   AUTHOR:   Susan Kalish
>   DATE:     Tuesday, 27 April 2004, at 8:36 a.m.
>
>   Reply To: (#2772) Re: Why do magazines keep pushing Commercial radio
>   Author:   Marcel
>   Date:     Monday, 26 April 2004, at 7:13 a.m.
>
> I agree with you Marcel that no commercial system should be used as primary.
> But as a parallel or backup I think some can be considered depending on your
> area. They can take the pressure off your primary when things get busy. And as
> they have many of the same functions as a primary, it keeps protocal in place.
>
> Perhaps all the commerical systems that advertise should all put in a
> disclaimer saying they dont' recommend being used as a primary.
>
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