Subject: [NEXTEL-1] RFID Coming To A Cell Phone Near You

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:58:58 -0400

http://slashdot.org/articles/04/04/14/1222227.shtml?tid=100&tid=137

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RFID Coming To A Cell Phone Near You

Posted by
timothy
on Wednesday April 14, @08:23AM

from the can-you-detect-me-now dept.

Roland Piquepaille writes "In "RFID Goes Mobile", Red Herring reports that Nokia has quietly launched last month the first RFID-enabled cell phone. The Mobile RFID Kit will be available later this year and only for the 5140 model. This accessory allows the user to easily launch services and conveniently access phone functions simply by touching the phone to an RFID tag. The phone accesses the RFID tag data when an RFID reader emits a short-range radio signal that powers a microchip on the tag, allowing the ID information and other stored data to be read. Nokia doesn't intend to sell this kit to ordinary consumers like you and me. Instead, the RFID kit is designed to extend the mobility of workforce already on the move, such as security guards or maintenance people. This overview contains other details and references about the kit."

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RFID Coming To A Cell Phone Near You

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Consumer Apps (Score:5, Interesting)

by swordboy (472941)
on Wednesday April 14, @08:27AM (#8858674)

(Last Journal: Monday December 08, @10:32PM)

This would actually be handy for consumers like the bar-code scanner thingy... When you're in the store, just scan the barcode (or RFID chip) and get price comparisons from other stores. Or reviews and user opinions, etc.

[ Reply to This
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Re:Consumer Apps by Trigun (Score:3) Wednesday April 14, @08:31AM

Re:Consumer Apps by Urkki (Score:1) Wednesday April 14, @08:41AM

Re:Consumer Apps by DrEldarion (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @08:43AM

Re:Consumer Apps (Score:4, Interesting)

by (arg!)Styopa (232550)
on Wednesday April 14, @08:38AM (#8858737)

(http://www.strategy-gaming.com/)

The problem is, that bar-code scanner thingy (Cuecat) wasn't a one-way data feed, and neither might this be.

With Cuecat, every time you swiped a barcode, it logged what you were doing and passed that information to the parent marketing firm. Personally, I don't really CARE about marketing firms having a pile of data on what interests me (gee, you mean I'm going to have to watch MORE ads aimed at my demographic? Oh no, more chicks in skimpy stuff! Please make it stop!) but it probably will drive the tinfoil hat crowd nuts.

I'd guess the RFID thing might work the same way - use the RFID kit to read retail RFIDs and I wouldn't be surprised if it means there's a log somewhere that'll upload to Nokia/whomever.
That would be a nice saleable resource for Nokia - I mean, people pay $000's for email lists of dubious provenance, what about a swipe-history of your RFID activity?

Now, I'd still consider getting this kit to use my cell phone as an RFID sweeper: buy a shirt, sweep it with the phone *ping* RFID detected.

ME: "Store Manager? If you want me to buy this shirt you're going to have to read and FRY the RFID tag in it before I walk out the door."
Manager: "Oh yes sir." (swipe) "OK, it's dead."
ME, waving cellphone: *ping* "NO it's not. Do it right or I might misunderstand your incompetence as malfeasance, buddy."

Yeah, I can see a good use for such a thing.
New PDA: palm, phone, mp3 player, RFID scanner. I'd pay good money for that, yes.

[ Reply to This
| Parent
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Re:Consumer Apps by plover (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @08:48AM

Re:Consumer Apps by (arg!)Styopa (Score:3) Wednesday April 14, @09:06AM

Re:Consumer Apps by plover (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @12:05PM

Re:Consumer Apps by dabadab (Score:3) Wednesday April 14, @09:28AM

Re:Consumer Apps by David Hume (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @11:50AM

Re:Consumer Apps by David Hume (Score:1) Wednesday April 14, @12:08PM

1 reply
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Re:Consumer Apps by Lumpy (Score:3) Wednesday April 14, @08:50AM

Re:Consumer Apps by plover (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @08:58AM

Re:Consumer Apps by Lumpy (Score:1) Wednesday April 14, @09:48AM

Another Delivery Method by Alien54 (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @10:42AM

1 reply
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Useful Tool (Score:5, Interesting)

by thpdg (519053)
on Wednesday April 14, @08:29AM (#8858686)

Finally, an RFID tool that is on our side. If we can't stop the spread of them, at least now we should be able to see what their purpose is. In theory, you could look up any tag you come across, and find out, via some databse some where, why it is installed, and what it wants to learn about you.
For a minute, I thought maybe it was an article about RFID tags in phones, which is just as inevitable.

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Re:Useful Tool by DrEldarion (Score:3) Wednesday April 14, @08:38AM

Re:Useful Tool by Mikkeles (Score:3) Wednesday April 14, @09:02AM

1 reply
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It's just two, two, two devices in one. (Score:5, Informative)

by plover (150551) *
on Wednesday April 14, @08:33AM (#8858701)

(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Monday December 22, @12:28PM)

So they're incorporating an RFID reader in a phone. This is similar to the barcode scanners for Palm devices that came out a few years ago. I had a couple of them (evaluations for work) but never found a compelling personal use for them.

This is novel in that it contains a portable "user-level" RFID scanner. (The phone bit is simply an already existant battery box.) So, now the questions are: what can end users do with it, and can we hack it?

One thing to keep in mind is that with the small antenna inherent to a cell phone footprint, this will pretty much be an "almost-contact" scanner with a range of centimeters, not meters.

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how come? (Score:2, Interesting)

by matticus (93537)
on Wednesday April 14, @08:33AM (#8858702)

(http://www.mpi-cbg.de/)

how come nokia's web site for this phone [nokia.com] mentions absolutely nothing about RFID?

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Re:how come? by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Wednesday April 14, @08:39AM

Re:how come? by plover (Score:3) Wednesday April 14, @08:42AM

What's Next... (Score:4, Interesting)

by Elusive_Cure (645428)
on Wednesday April 14, @08:39AM (#8858742)

well, it started...I'm quite possitive that RFIDs on the phones, on the PDAs and every mobile device won't be much of a success, due to the fact that most of the people resent on having someone scanning their phones/devices and tracking them down. OTOH, as i have previously mentioned in an older post, i used to participate in a reasearch at my uni for a major mobile phone company for the implementation of fingerprint recognition on cell phones and other mobile devices (PDAs,notebooks,etc). Personally i preffer the fingerprint sollution rather than the RFID one because the phone's security is up to you and not as "hollow" as RFID can be by the use of reverse engineering. It's simple, if your phone is stolen the perp needs to have your thumb or else the phone is just another piece of garbage. You cannot reverse engineer a fingerprint simply because you cannot have a clue on how the actual fingerpint is shaped, while the scanning software is something very ubiquitous and tough to be "hacked" by someone who hasn't got a clue of the scanning algorithms. Now with RFID, whack it off the phone/device and you have an ordinary device to play with .

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No, Don't Take My Thumb! by SteveM (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @09:07AM

Re:RTFA by platypussrex (Score:3) Wednesday April 14, @09:27AM

A simple solution! (Score:5, Funny)

by AndroidCat (229562)
on Wednesday April 14, @08:40AM (#8858747)

(http://slashdot.org/~AndroidCat | Last Journal: Friday May 02, @02:57PM)

For the people worried about the privacy problems with RFID tagging everything: Give it to Microsoft. No, really! As soon as they start doing RFID for Windows, someone will have the bright idea of allowing RFID readers to automatically execute any arbitrary code that it finds on an RFID tag. Then we all just have to start wearing viral RFID tags.

[ Reply to This
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Automating processes and cutting out paperwork (Score:5, Interesting)

by bomblaster (580308)
on Wednesday April 14, @08:46AM (#8858780)

Features like this have lots of potential to cut down on paperwork by enhancing automation of routine tasks. For example, you might now need to fill out forms to signal that you have done a particular task. Instead, with this RFID reader in the phone, touch some tag and the information in the tag will be automatically sent to some remote database over wireless.

This could lead to opening up new ways to improve a company's operational processes, cutting out steps where digital data is ofen has to be retyped into a different system.

Moreover, vendors are now positioning smartphones more and more as "enterprise" productivity solution. Microsoft has also recently come out with a Location Based Services connector for Excahneg server that enables companies to monitor the location of thei service staff and route them efficiently by sending emails or test messages.

[ Reply to This
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Re:Automating processes and cutting out paperwork by AndroidCat (Score:1) Wednesday April 14, @09:00AM

1 reply
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Uh-oh, here comes the privacy patrol (Score:4, Insightful)

by Anonymous Coward
on Wednesday April 14, @08:47AM (#8858791)

Worrying about privacy on a device that already gives away your location and openly bounces your conversations over the radio spectrum.

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1 reply
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This is not really a new idea.. (Score:5, Interesting)

by api_syurga (443557)
on Wednesday April 14, @08:53AM (#8858815)

I came across a similar proposal a few years ago.
Rather than using RFID, the said idea was to inversely uses RF smartcard chips. For example, maintanence staff are required to carry a mobile smartcard reader with a built in database, and the smartcard chips are installed at specific locations on where they are supposed to do their maintanence duties. Whenever they are at their supposed locations, they'd need to use the reader on the chips before going on to their next location.
This adds some security and ensures the maintanence crew to actually go on site.

However no one in the company took the idea to execution; perhaps it was'nt sexy enough..?

I wonder how's this RFID thingie gonna be accepted in the real world.

[ Reply to This
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Re:This is not really a new idea.. by igrp (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @09:25AM

Re:This is not really a new idea.. by eric76 (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @10:04AM

Same thing.. by api_syurga (Score:1) Wednesday April 14, @09:50AM

3 replies
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this isn't a consumer app (Score:1, Informative)

by Anonymous Coward
on Wednesday April 14, @09:00AM (#8858851)

this is targeted at businesses that might use RFID...it's part of Nokia's "new" enterprise strategy

[ Reply to This
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Not suited for consumer use (Score:5, Informative)

by jackalope (99754)
on Wednesday April 14, @09:01AM (#8858862)

The RFID tag reading capability provided by the phone will not read the RFID tags that WalMart is requiring for it's top suppliers next year.

The Walmart tags are EPC class 1v2 compliant tags that operate in the 915mhz range. The Nokia phone reads ISO-14443A tags that operate in the 13.56mhz range. The two technologies are very very different.

The EPC tags are relatively inexpensive (and getting cheaper all the time). They have about 128 bits of internal nvram and can be read from about 1-3 meters.

The ISO-14443A tags are expensive. They've got large amounts (multiple KB) of internal NVRAM, some have embedded operating systems and file systems for the NVRAM. You won't see companies using 14443 tags to tag merchandise anytime soon.

Another problem with the 14443 tags is that it is based on a fuzzy ISO standard. The cross vendor compatibility between compliant 14443 tags and compliant 14443 readers is not good at all. For instance, a Philips 14443 reader may not be able to correctly read a STMicro 14443 chip, even though they both are 14443 compliant. Basically, ISO makes vague standards so that many companies can claim compliance, but none have to compete with in an open marketplace.

I think the Nokia phone will be useful for closed loop RFID applications (one where the tag is not required to interoperate across multiple companies).

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Site mentions security guards as users... (Score:4, Interesting)

by Ami Ganguli (921)
on Wednesday April 14, @09:05AM (#8858877)

The company that does security for us (and probably for Nokia - I work about two km from their headquarters) uses little barcode readers. As the guard does her rounds, she swipes a little bar-code in each room. Presumably the security company logs that info and thereby knows exactly when each room in the building was checked.

I bet somebody at Nokia saw their security guards doing the same thing and got a bright idea...

[ Reply to This
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Re:Site mentions security guards as users... by dr_labrat (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @09:31AM

Re:Site mentions security guards as users... by ergo98 (Score:1) Wednesday April 14, @11:04AM

Re:Site mentions security guards as users... by Planesdragon (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @11:28AM

1 reply
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RFID Coming To A Cell Phone Near You (Score:2)

by dj245 (732906)
on Wednesday April 14, @09:06AM (#8858880)

RFID Coming To A Cell Phone Near You
Run, panic, cower in fear. Conspiracy theorists abound. Its just a RFID reader, people. If anything, you spy on the people who are trying to being spying on you.

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Of course you know what's next (Score:2, Funny)

by JosKarith (757063)
on Wednesday April 14, @09:12AM (#8858914)

Coming soon to a toy store near you -

RFID Battler - based on the old Barcode Battler, this new version will allow you to battle opponents usinng the latest technological advances.

I really should have patented that idea before broadcasting it...

This is not a .sig. If it was a .sig it would be funny.
Or ironic at least.

[ Reply to This
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Here's Hoping (Score:3, Funny)

by pete-classic (75983) <[email-masked]>
on Wednesday April 14, @09:16AM (#8858934)

That RFID gets the kind of traction that bluetooth has. It certainly has a similar pre-rollout hype.

Still can't get a f*%#ing bluetooth phone from verizon.

-Peter

[ Reply to This
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woohooo (Score:5, Interesting)

by nizo (81281)
on Wednesday April 14, @09:17AM (#8858941)

(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Thursday October 23, @03:10PM)

When you walk near my RFID tag that I leave at the mall, does it cause your phone to automatically dial my 1-900 number at $20/min?

[ Reply to This
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Re:woohooo by AndroidCat (Score:1) Wednesday April 14, @09:21AM

1 reply
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Don't like it (Score:2, Funny)

by badzilla (50355) <[email-masked]>
on Wednesday April 14, @09:43AM (#8859131)

Boss: Wear this phone so I can hassle you whenever I want.
Me: Nope

but now

Boss: Wear this access control badge so you can get into the server room.
Me: OK
Boss: Oh ya BTW it is also a phone so I can hassle you whenever I want...

[ Reply to This
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Re:Don't like it by phorm (Score:1) Wednesday April 14, @11:05AM

Re:Don't like it by Paulrothrock (Score:2) Wednesday April 14, @03:21PM

2 replies
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Could be exciting if we have the right tool (Score:4, Interesting)

by gearmonger (672422)
on Wednesday April 14, @09:58AM (#8859242)

One thing we'll definitely need is the RFID equivalent of FreeDB.

Of course, once the planet is littered with RFID tags in everything (after all, isn't 94.6% of everything in the world purchased at a Wal-Mart now?), we geeks will need a way to find out what data each contains.

The big corp monopolies won't be giving up their data, so it'll be up to us to collect, organize, and disseminate the data in these tags. Bu then, you have to wonder if even reading those tags won't be some kind of violation of the DMCA or other IP protection laws. Damn laws.

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The engineers will do a fine job, I'm sure (Score:2)

by c13v3rm0nk3y (189767)
on Wednesday April 14, @11:22AM (#8860108)

(http://www.clevermonkey.org/)

I'm sure we can all count on the engineering and implementation of this tech to be robust and secure.

I mean, at least as secure as Bluetooth [slashdot.org].

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I'm not convinced that this isn't just featching creeperism that will eventaully result in data leakage or worse.

Considering the market this is aimed at, I'm hoping the spec is doing more than just paying lip service to security. Hackers and hobbyists will have access to USB or PCI RFID (or whatever) units eventually. Better plan for it now.

"RFIDSnarfing" anyone?

[ Reply to This
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Great! (Score:1)

by stdcallsign (558206)
on Wednesday April 14, @12:41PM (#8860990)

That's all we need! Cell phones sending out radio signals.. what will they think of next?

[ Reply to This
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More than a bar code reader... (Score:2, Informative)

by InakaBoyJoe (687694)
on Wednesday April 14, @12:52PM (#8861082)

People are talking about this as if it's some kind of simplified data input solution. But phones with cameras are already effective barcode readers and some come with OCR these days ... DoCoMo 505i series phones [nttdocomo.co.jp]

All without additional hardware. The main advantage of RFID in this case is simply resistance to cloning of the tags. That's why this isn't being marketed as a mass-market feature.

Also, although this is the first READER application, DoCoMo did a pretty widespread trial last year with tags embedded in cell phones for use as train fare debits: Article. [itmedia.co.jp]

This is more of a consumer application since the infrastructure and user need is already there.

[ Reply to This
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What Is This? Pork! (Score:1)

by feloneous cat (564318)
on Wednesday April 14, @02:20PM (#8862222)

Well, I did the initial design work for a certain pump company that sells RFID to gasoline companies. We used the an RFID unit sold by a certain Texas electronics company. All of the RFID tags were supposed to be unique. We found out later their mouths were moving.

FIRST, we got sample tags that were supposed to be all unique, but of which five had the same exact number.

THEN, we discover that only a RANGE were unique, that in fact the rest of the values were being used by cattle and pork industry (removed at slaughter is what they say). Which brought up the specter of Farmer Jones getting free gas when he drove his prize pig into town.

FINALLY, the last straw was when we discovered there was no CRC. Period. They just sent it and hoped for the best. The Texas electronics firm tried to BS their way with bogus bit recovery schemes (which wouldn't work because the recievers would inject or drop bits without notice).

So what does this have to do with Nokia? Dunno.

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Re:Sheesh. (Score:3, Funny)

by Molina the Bofh (99621)
on Wednesday April 14, @08:30AM (#8858687)

(http://slashdot.org/)

Probably have to buy the batteries ourselves too.

Uh, I'm not so sure if it's such a great idea. Where would you stick those batteries ?

Ok, some people may like it.

[ Reply to This
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Re:Sheesh. by Patrik_AKA_RedX (Score:1) Wednesday April 14, @08:51AM

Re:Sheesh. (Score:3, Funny)

by malia8888 (646496)
on Wednesday April 14, @08:45AM (#8858776)

(http://www.coffeemac.com/)

Next thing you know we'll all have ear tags and radio collars.
My dog, Sparky, just read your comment and is requesting his microchip be taken out. He says he doesn't want to be scanned like canned corn in the supermarket. Now you've done it, AltGrendel. I shall send you the vet bill :P

[ Reply to This
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2 replies
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Re:getting there... (Score:2)

by Paulrothrock (685079)
on Wednesday April 14, @03:24PM (#8862910)

(http://www.movetoiceland.com/)

The tags are there to prevent theft, just like DRM software. Circumventing them violates DMCA. Selling products that circumvent them violates DMCA. Say bye bye to your microwave.

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12 replies
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Keep up the good work! But please don't ask me to help.

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