From nobody Mon Jul 3 13:12:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietf.org Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B753C1252BA; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 13:12:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: modern@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149911276173.22803.12558230957182189993@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 13:12:41 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Modern] I-D Action: draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-03.txt X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 20:12:42 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers of the IETF. Title : Modern Problem Statement, Use Cases, and Framework Authors : Jon Peterson Tom McGarry Filename : draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-03.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2017-07-03 Abstract: The functions of the public switched telephone network (PSTN) are rapidly migrating to the Internet. This is generating new requirements for many traditional elements of the PSTN, including telephone numbers (TNs). TNs no longer serve simply as telephone routing addresses: they are now identifiers which may be used by Internet-based services for a variety of purposes including session establishment, identity verification, and service enablement. This problem statement examines how the existing tools for allocating and managing telephone numbers do not align with the use cases of the Internet environment, and proposes a framework for Internet-based services relying on TNs. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Jul 16 05:20:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8851E131468 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 05:20:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=team.neustar Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bCmdUwFvdYBp for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 05:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 303FC1318EC for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 05:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0078664.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id v6GCDUCa029154 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 08:20:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=team.neustar; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : mime-version; s=selector1; bh=DJpArpPifcVi1ZvYIef1e1PR+hiFO9ZQkLJYMhHlQME=; b=noNDbkUj8akkSG/Q5L9X0i8z0RWRNWMX4A898Fe/c2RmZHThN8IYHiPteThO4nFKo0Of oIeR7JHPPuMasdo2lriK5qmse+eKQYkmqUBLCGeBSQPEiB4eaFNc7QKrIxnGRa86mfL1 k/6FCitdsRGVuTUQb6lSwkkATXw5JbRi0TJPdR3rVqwLjg8VamslLHf/4UMLFkfpeEIu 0kYhTM+PcJGesF7UK/Tlvr8USNsW468WoKdajRQcGzUF76CvHfRhuCfTbxmIDxyyG1Iv iDJZlveWHPKUVmxvOZt0DZnhzJHnEwnY7sii6WvoAz+UnhcUroajGhbqVUQBezONN7YS Pg== Received: from stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([156.154.17.216]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2bqdpvjbg4-1 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 08:20:36 -0400 Received: from stntexmb12.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.2.239]) by stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.4.65]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 08:20:35 -0400 From: "Peterson, Jon" To: "modern@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: modern meeting discussion Thread-Index: AQHS/i3spxzn04CvwEydFOBWIWz+jQ== Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 12:20:34 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.3.160329 x-originating-ip: [10.96.12.35] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D590D2661EA813jonpetersonneustarbiz_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-07-16_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1706020000 definitions=main-1707160204 Archived-At: Subject: [Modern] modern meeting discussion X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 12:20:39 -0000 --_000_D590D2661EA813jonpetersonneustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For the MODERN meeting this time, Chris Wendt and I put our heads together = to try to come up with a more concrete use case that would have some immedi= ate applicability to the industry. Lately there has been some talk in North= America recently about ways to share data structures that will let carrier= s know if a number is invalid or unallocated, so that abusive calls from nu= mbers that simply shouldn't be able to originate at all can be blocked or o= therwise given special treatment. Taking that as the sort of thing we hope MODERN could address, we put toget= her this TeRI data structure for expressing that numbers are valid and allo= cated - this is a "whitelist" sort of approach to the problem, as it seeme= d easier to us to share a list of numbers that are valid than it is to come= up with all the different ways that someone might try to structure an inva= lid number. This is intended primarily for use with number ranges, though f= or some existing use cases (like freephone), assignment of individual numbe= rs is what matters, and that is probably true of some of our future use cas= es here (like DRiP) as well. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peterson-modern-teri-valid-00 To get this into shape, I also did a bit more work fleshing out parts of Te= RI, which has also been revised for the meeting, and I'll talk a bit about = that as well on Friday. Jon Peterson Neustar, Inc. --_000_D590D2661EA813jonpetersonneustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8469A09DBA6EFA4B84B93D114D004BC1@neustar.biz> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

For the MODERN meeting this time, Chris Wendt and I put our heads toge= ther to try to come up with a more concrete use case that would have some i= mmediate applicability to the industry. Lately there has been some talk in = North America recently about ways to share data structures that will let carriers know if a number is invali= d or unallocated, so that abusive calls from numbers that simply shouldn't = be able to originate at all can be blocked or otherwise given special treat= ment. 

Taking that as the sort of thing we hope MODERN could address, we put = together this TeRI data structure for expressing that numbers are valid and= allocated  - this is a "whitelist" sort of approach to the = problem, as it seemed easier to us to share a list of numbers that are valid than it is to come up with all the different way= s that someone might try to structure an invalid number. This is intended p= rimarily for use with number ranges, though for some existing use cases (li= ke freephone), assignment of individual numbers is what matters, and that is probably true of some of our future u= se cases here (like DRiP) as well.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peterson-modern-teri-valid-00

To get this into shape, I also did a bit more work fleshing out parts = of TeRI, which has also been revised for the meeting, and I'll talk a bit a= bout that as well on Friday.

Jon Peterson
Neustar, Inc.
--_000_D590D2661EA813jonpetersonneustarbiz_-- From nobody Sun Jul 16 11:38:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DFB12ECBD for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 11:38:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=shockey.us Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wHrCgH22wHiN for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 11:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qproxy3.mail.unifiedlayer.com (qproxy3-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.38.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3E6C129AA0 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 11:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CMOut01 (unknown [10.0.90.82]) by qproxy3.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36EC9D5898 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 12:38:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box462.bluehost.com ([74.220.219.62]) by CMOut01 with id lWZ41v0081MNPNq01WZ7uP; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 12:33:08 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=FvB1xyjq c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jTEj1adHphCQ5SwrTAOQMg==:117 a=jTEj1adHphCQ5SwrTAOQMg==:17 a=MKtGQD3n3ToA:10 a=1oJP67jkp3AA:10 a=G3gG6ho9WtcA:10 a=jqBRFv0mrdUA:10 a=ZZnuYtJkoWoA:10 a=PeFO9FbFhS32YxYntvkA:9 a=ll-iCDY8AAAA:8 a=M0OflfRGAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=BnDEmklN2TBxw0FUSJgA:9 a=eWHnn2PGByrc8OjS:21 a=cJIRw92HPaG4y8xP:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=ivbTfD_dPm4A:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=ldG2xuoQ9TDTbmbMMWwA:9 a=_vnImK6mG-2F5ku9:21 a=adhCKJHs7IhZlmWm:21 a=uoAb9cSOYpUi3GCw:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=VpyrLIdO_Ztbr3SWPBuH:22 a=6yl0mh0s51TKORVA8GqK:22 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=shockey.us; s=default; h=Content-type:Mime-version:Message-ID:To:From:Subject:Date: Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UwUgI6u5p3zvhbIao6VidmBtkP7KU1FYRWMH3h5oc88=; b=BuFQvzCYx3h5uH+yJwzsr96dl2 JdcOzFlHCyt15H4opOKizW76IGTA4C5cMJbgHNHZmu+pwiI1IPRWBaKWcnAmldfWATOf0mtju6ox4 xKAo/FYObDq1CoAkpFypv5aG7; Received: from [64.134.221.172] (port=49989 helo=[10.20.4.198]) by box462.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dWoLo-0045bD-30; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 12:33:04 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.24.0.170702 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 11:30:37 -0700 From: Richard Shockey To: "Peterson, Jon" , "modern@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Modern] modern meeting discussion Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3583049584_1450687632" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box462.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - shockey.us X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 64.134.221.172 X-Exim-ID: 1dWoLo-0045bD-30 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([10.20.4.198]) [64.134.221.172]:49989 X-Source-Auth: richard+shockey.us X-Email-Count: 6 X-Source-Cap: c2hvY2tleXU7c2hvY2tleXU7Ym94NDYyLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Modern] modern meeting discussion X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 18:38:13 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3583049584_1450687632 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =20 Well this idea has the benefit of being actually practical and deployable v= s the useless idea of individual number allocation.=C2=A0 Useless in the sense t= hat no carrier I know of is going to rip out their existing OSS/BSS systems = to accommodate the original idea. =20 The idea of white/black lists for the Do Not Originate application has meri= t as does the idea of listing numbers that have been disconnected and recent= ly reassigned.=C2=A0 MODERN would have to compete, potentially, other methods th= at the NANPA and other numbering authorities could consider. =20 The problem right now is that the spoofing industry has moved on into the f= ully allocated range of the national numbering plans in order to increase an= swer rates. =C2=A0=C2=A0A problem only STIR/SHAKEN can ultimately address. There is = adequate data from the current crop of data analytics firms to support that = thesis.=20 =20 In any event this idea does have merit and worth investigation.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =E2=80=94=20 Richard Shockey Shockey Consulting LLC Chairman of the Board SIP Forum www.shockey.us www.sipforum.org richardshockey.us Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter rshockey101 PSTN +1 703-593-2683 =20 =20 From: Modern on behalf of "Peterson, Jon" Date: Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 5:20 AM To: "modern@ietf.org" Subject: [Modern] modern meeting discussion =20 =20 For the MODERN meeting this time, Chris Wendt and I put our heads together = to try to come up with a more concrete use case that would have some immedia= te applicability to the industry. Lately there has been some talk in North A= merica recently about ways to share data structures that will let carriers k= now if a number is invalid or unallocated, so that abusive calls from number= s that simply shouldn't be able to originate at all can be blocked or otherw= ise given special treatment.=20 =20 Taking that as the sort of thing we hope MODERN could address, we put toget= her this TeRI data structure for expressing that numbers are valid and alloc= ated - this is a "whitelist" sort of approach to the problem, as it seemed = easier to us to share a list of numbers that are valid than it is to come up= with all the different ways that someone might try to structure an invalid = number. This is intended primarily for use with number ranges, though for so= me existing use cases (like freephone), assignment of individual numbers is = what matters, and that is probably true of some of our future use cases here= (like DRiP) as well. =20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peterson-modern-teri-valid-00 =20 To get this into shape, I also did a bit more work fleshing out parts of Te= RI, which has also been revised for the meeting, and I'll talk a bit about t= hat as well on Friday. =20 Jon Peterson Neustar, Inc. _______________________________________________ Modern mailing list Modern@= ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern=20 --B_3583049584_1450687632 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

 

Well this idea has the benefit of being actually practical and deployabl= e vs the useless idea of individual number allocation.=C2=A0 Useless in the sens= e that no carrier I know of is going to rip out their existing OSS/BSS syste= ms to accommodate the original idea.

&= nbsp;

The idea of white/black lists for the Do N= ot Originate application has merit as does the idea of listing numbers that = have been disconnected and recently reassigned.=C2=A0 MODERN would have to compe= te, potentially, other methods that the NANPA and other numbering authoritie= s could consider.

 

The problem right now is that the spoofing industry has moved= on into the fully allocated range of the national numbering plans in order = to increase answer rates. =C2=A0=C2=A0A problem only STIR/SHAKEN can ultimately addr= ess. There is adequate data from the current crop of data analytics firms to= support that thesis.

 

In any event this idea does have merit and worth investi= gation.

 

 

 

 

 

=

=E2=80=94&n= bsp;

Richard Shockey<= /o:p>

Shockey Consulting LLC

Chairman of the Board = SIP Forum

www.shocke= y.us

www.sipforum.or= g

richard<at>s= hockey.us

Skype-Link= edin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter  rshockey101

<= p class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in= ;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'>PSTN +1 703-593-2683

 

 

= From: Modern <moder= n-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Peterson, Jon" <jon.peters= on@team.neustar>
Date: Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 5:20 AM
T= o: "modern@ietf.org" <modern@ietf.org>
Subject: [Modern] modern meeting discussion

 

 

For the MODERN meeting this time, Chri= s Wendt and I put our heads together to try to come up with a more concrete = use case that would have some immediate applicability to the industry. Latel= y there has been some talk in North America recently about ways to share dat= a structures that will let carriers know if a number is invalid or unallocat= ed, so that abusive calls from numbers that simply shouldn't be able to orig= inate at all can be blocked or otherwise given special treatment. =

 

Taking that as the sort of thing we hope MODERN could address= , we put together this TeRI data structure for expressing that numbers are v= alid and allocated  - this is a "whitelist" sort of approach = to the problem, as it seemed easier to us to share a list of numbers that ar= e valid than it is to come up with all the different ways that someone might= try to structure an invalid number. This is intended primarily for use with= number ranges, though for some existing use cases (like freephone), assignm= ent of individual numbers is what matters, and that is probably true of some= of our future use cases here (like DRiP) as well.

=

 

https://= tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peterson-modern-teri-valid-00

 

To get this into shape, I also did a bit more work fleshing out parts of = TeRI, which has also been revised for the meeting, and I'll talk a bit about= that as well on Friday.

&n= bsp;

Jon Peterson

Neustar, Inc.

_______________________________________________ Modern mailing list Modern= @ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern

= --B_3583049584_1450687632-- From prvs=2371579e54=tom.mcgarry@team.neustar Mon Jul 17 01:11:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8675713179D for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 01:11:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=team.neustar Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MmUxc6kJOODd for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 01:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75903131798 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 01:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0078664.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id v6H82lmh011839 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:11:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=team.neustar; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : mime-version; s=selector1; bh=4ItUoc1+5pPtRvyHbPfvavjvh6mNA4VbihloyV9YY5s=; b=Nn2HWmAdsEU56sl/OTY1nj/UYxTAvBwkgTswGmU5hoBYiBNwen+fZ64pmUtjviP704yg Adyt6ycXN0WgDeYCAYzypHyBBSlm6GnRVh+nnVAV4EF7Cj8FtA30asZuOcmmZlUv2Kc4 ZhNvzb8q9HYqXVucVvBvTGSIJwyuVAXF97Tx1nXqh1Qlwu4SsGJ9AJA23wRH0KqR7KQJ KPMKagHYDdLiWU7OWdTEpdDolH0O2exKd1B2cPIQesRegKtOFfhZwYWy/H4pFnt+6UMu GbDadWPCa4/9hLPBBWUlX9u5/cDSUE6cuzhQFVmz15GWAAzqIoKWquXiJHqh1SRWFn02 vA== Received: from stntexhc12.cis.neustar.com ([156.154.17.216]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2bqdpvkqjn-1 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:11:30 -0400 Received: from STNTEXMB11.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.1.47]) by stntexhc12.cis.neustar.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:11:29 -0400 From: "McGarry, Tom" To: Modern List Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-peterson-modern-teri-valid-00 Thread-Index: AQHS/tRLuR6OHWgxdk62k9nDPx51Qg== Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:11:29 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.4.160422 x-originating-ip: [10.96.9.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D591E85F42BC4tommcgarryneustarbiz_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-07-17_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1706020000 definitions=main-1707170124 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 02:58:38 -0700 Subject: [Modern] Comments on draft-peterson-modern-teri-valid-00 X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:56:32 -0000 --_000_D591E85F42BC4tommcgarryneustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ALLOCATED VS ASSIGNED There are generally 3 states for the number: * "Available" to be allocated to a service provider (I suppose =93Unava= ilable" is also a state) * =93Allocated" to a service provider * =93Assigned" to a user This draft addresses the last two, but only uses the term =93allocated=94. = It would be good to have both and make the distinction. QUERY VS LIST This seems to be a query and response process, e.g., tell me about this num= ber or block of numbers. We should include the ability to pull down a list= , e.g., provide me all allocated numbers, provide me all allocated numbers = in this prefix. NIT 4.1, 1st para., last word is misspelled Tom McGarry --_000_D591E85F42BC4tommcgarryneustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <89C5741B0EAB2C4A92385F2DE324BBE0@neustar.biz> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ALLOCATED VS ASSIGNED
There are generally 3 states for the number:
  • "Available" to be allocated to a service provider (I suppose = =93Unavailable" is also a state)
  • =93Allocated" to a servi= ce provider
  • =93Assigned" to a user
This draft addresses the last two, but only uses the term =93allocated= =94.  It would be good to have both and make the distinction.  

QUERY VS LIST
This seems to be a query and response process, e.g., tell me about thi= s number or block of numbers.  We should include the ability to pull d= own a list, e.g., provide me all allocated numbers, provide me all allocate= d numbers in this prefix.  

NIT
4.1, 1st para., last word is misspelled


Tom McGarry
--_000_D591E85F42BC4tommcgarryneustarbiz_-- From nobody Mon Jul 17 04:58:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A70B312708C for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:58:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=team.neustar Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hwLcWO1TZd2q for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4062112F257 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0078666.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id v6HBr38k025866; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:58:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=team.neustar; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=selector1; bh=BBh9coRIBGCkSjm0VQvthhRA/Rpk28d0s4xTapQhcdo=; b=Ke1oSJV0NzU/Ac2TKyaJaBMyNiD52gcPe7929f4x416yE00LItEEcjJdc2WrEgy9mqAQ q7VTVM/aNa7zCFUtNK2ptycATAlIPACjdy3DjSHcTmfnzbWr3s2DzAygDnqPR3i8Cbaa 23vE9p/ZlFIID9DoSGNlp7YR2swBjRHbEc/nHMiC5NsMv4mZy1UvNISJh/P0EK20FQWl qZlZq4/ndcFq+0FHdXX92P3Bz8qsUa93KLplH4Pt++kMQtbIt4OCqWlE0f07jEfoGRY9 Eg/Ak35fcv0Z0flnR6AHurBOg1xZ3/vNMWpFpPtfutVK/CrxGv3E2o5FR7+7MbkBtRrp 5Q== Received: from stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([156.154.17.216]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2bqf5tbvfe-1 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:58:26 -0400 Received: from stntexmb12.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.2.239]) by stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.4.65]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:58:25 -0400 From: "Peterson, Jon" To: Steve Donovan , "modern@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Modern] End of WGLC on draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-02 Thread-Index: AQHS8BjRAt69W94/wkqjpcycLdNPgaJYBlCA Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 11:58:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.3.160329 x-originating-ip: [10.96.12.35] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7BBC2F9D5DAA054AB89F44303A9EBD74@neustar.biz> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-07-17_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1706020000 definitions=main-1707170188 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Modern] End of WGLC on draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-02 X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 11:58:30 -0000 We did in fact get some private comments, and based on those I made a few changes to the document for this version. Given all the interest in credentials in STIR and ACME, it made sense to introduce a "credential authority" role in the MODERN framework. One could say that the MODERN framework now gives an overall picture of how we imagine a lot of the components surrounding STIR could come together - which might not be a bad destiny for the MODERN work. Jon Peterson Neustar, Inc. On 6/28/17, 10:13 AM, "Modern on behalf of Steve Donovan" wrote: >All, > >The two week WGLC has completed without comment. We will talk about >next steps for the draft during the MODERN session in Prague. > >Regards, > >Steve > >_______________________________________________ >Modern mailing list >Modern@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern From nobody Mon Jul 17 07:23:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B110131BE2 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:23:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NbYIFle41g4c for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83E13131BFA for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp5.infomaniak.ch (smtp5.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.18]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6HENEKN028521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:23:14 +0200 Received: from RHillNew (adsl-178-39-160-44.adslplus.ch [178.39.160.44]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp5.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6HENCZC058437; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:23:13 +0200 From: "Richard Hill" To: "'Richard Shockey'" , "'Peterson, Jon'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:23:13 +0200 Message-ID: <012401d2ff08$3a0764b0$ae162e10$@ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0125_01D2FF18.FD9034B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdL+YrHGxTOY45DoQsyVr92zoP+/pAApTTUw Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Modern] modern meeting discussion X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:23:21 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0125_01D2FF18.FD9034B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We get a lot of spoofed calls in Switzerland also. They are illegal, but = the call centers are located outside of Switzerland, so there = isn=E2=80=99t much that the Swiss authorities can do about it. =20 If the call center is willing to break the law (and is able to get away = with it because they are offshore), how would the proposed TERI scheme = help? Are there variations of TERI that would help? =20 Thanks and best, Richard =20 From: Modern [mailto:modern-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Richard = Shockey Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 20:31 To: Peterson, Jon; modern@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Modern] modern meeting discussion =20 =20 Well this idea has the benefit of being actually practical and = deployable vs the useless idea of individual number allocation. Useless = in the sense that no carrier I know of is going to rip out their = existing OSS/BSS systems to accommodate the original idea. =20 The idea of white/black lists for the Do Not Originate application has = merit as does the idea of listing numbers that have been disconnected = and recently reassigned. MODERN would have to compete, potentially, = other methods that the NANPA and other numbering authorities could = consider. =20 The problem right now is that the spoofing industry has moved on into = the fully allocated range of the national numbering plans in order to = increase answer rates. A problem only STIR/SHAKEN can ultimately = address. There is adequate data from the current crop of data analytics = firms to support that thesis.=20 =20 In any event this idea does have merit and worth investigation.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =E2=80=94=20 Richard Shockey Shockey Consulting LLC Chairman of the Board SIP Forum www.shockey.us www.sipforum.org richardshockey.us Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter rshockey101 PSTN +1 703-593-2683 =20 =20 From: Modern on behalf of "Peterson, Jon" = Date: Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 5:20 AM To: "modern@ietf.org" Subject: [Modern] modern meeting discussion =20 =20 For the MODERN meeting this time, Chris Wendt and I put our heads = together to try to come up with a more concrete use case that would have = some immediate applicability to the industry. Lately there has been some = talk in North America recently about ways to share data structures that = will let carriers know if a number is invalid or unallocated, so that = abusive calls from numbers that simply shouldn't be able to originate at = all can be blocked or otherwise given special treatment.=20 =20 Taking that as the sort of thing we hope MODERN could address, we put = together this TeRI data structure for expressing that numbers are valid = and allocated - this is a "whitelist" sort of approach to the problem, = as it seemed easier to us to share a list of numbers that are valid than = it is to come up with all the different ways that someone might try to = structure an invalid number. This is intended primarily for use with = number ranges, though for some existing use cases (like freephone), = assignment of individual numbers is what matters, and that is probably = true of some of our future use cases here (like DRiP) as well. =20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peterson-modern-teri-valid-00 =20 To get this into shape, I also did a bit more work fleshing out parts of = TeRI, which has also been revised for the meeting, and I'll talk a bit = about that as well on Friday. =20 Jon Peterson Neustar, Inc. _______________________________________________ Modern mailing list = Modern@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0125_01D2FF18.FD9034B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We get a lot of spoofed = calls in Switzerland also. They are illegal, but the call centers are = located outside of Switzerland, so there isn=E2=80=99t much that the = Swiss authorities can do about it.

 

If the call center is = willing to break the law (and is able to get away with it because they = are offshore), how would the proposed TERI scheme help?=C2=A0 Are there = variations of TERI that would help?

 

Thanks and = best,

Richard

 

From:= = Modern [mailto:modern-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Richard = Shockey
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 20:31
To: = Peterson, Jon; modern@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Modern] modern = meeting discussion

 

 

Well this = idea has the benefit of being actually practical and deployable vs the = useless idea of individual number allocation.  Useless in the sense = that no carrier I know of is going to rip out their existing OSS/BSS = systems to accommodate the original idea.

 

The idea of = white/black lists for the Do Not Originate application has merit as does = the idea of listing numbers that have been disconnected and recently = reassigned.  MODERN would have to compete, potentially, other = methods that the NANPA and other numbering authorities could = consider.

 

The problem right now is that the spoofing industry = has moved on into the fully allocated range of the national numbering = plans in order to increase answer rates.   A problem only = STIR/SHAKEN can ultimately address. There is adequate data from the = current crop of data analytics firms to support that thesis. =

 

In any event this idea does have merit and worth = investigation.

 

 

 

 

 

=E2=80=94 

Richard = Shockey

Shockey = Consulting LLC

Chairman of = the Board SIP Forum

www.shockey.us

richard<at>shockey.us

Skype-Linkedin-Facebook = =E2=80=93Twitter  rshockey101

PSTN +1 = 703-593-2683

 

 

From: Modern <modern-bounces@ietf.org> = on behalf of "Peterson, Jon" <jon.peterson@team.neustar&g= t;
Date: Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 5:20 AM
To: = "modern@ietf.org" = <modern@ietf.org>
Subject: = [Modern] modern meeting = discussion

 

 

For the MODERN meeting this time, Chris Wendt and I = put our heads together to try to come up with a more concrete use case = that would have some immediate applicability to the industry. Lately = there has been some talk in North America recently about ways to share = data structures that will let carriers know if a number is invalid or = unallocated, so that abusive calls from numbers that simply shouldn't be = able to originate at all can be blocked or otherwise given special = treatment. 

 

Taking that as the sort of thing we hope MODERN could = address, we put together this TeRI data structure for expressing that = numbers are valid and allocated  - this is a "whitelist" = sort of approach to the problem, as it seemed easier to us to share a = list of numbers that are valid than it is to come up with all the = different ways that someone might try to structure an invalid number. = This is intended primarily for use with number ranges, though for some = existing use cases (like freephone), assignment of individual numbers is = what matters, and that is probably true of some of our future use cases = here (like DRiP) as well.

 

 

To get this into shape, I also did a bit more work = fleshing out parts of TeRI, which has also been revised for the meeting, = and I'll talk a bit about that as well on = Friday.

 

Jon Peterson

Neustar, Inc.

_______________________________________________ Modern = mailing list Modern@ietf.org https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/modern

------=_NextPart_000_0125_01D2FF18.FD9034B0-- From nobody Mon Jul 17 21:40:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B850D12ECC0 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:40:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.691 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.691 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=iconectiv.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NJdNtFbuOFmY for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM01-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2nam01on0113.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.34.113]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91646126C0F for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: iconectiv.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Jul 2017 04:40:35.8669 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 69c8e407-b674-422e-b87b-0e5394e0005e X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY2PR06MB1800 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Modern] End of WGLC on draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-02 X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:40:40 -0000 I apologize, I am still trying to gain an understanding of the process flow= s of the IETF -=20 Please clarify what this means? I had thought comments needed to be made w= ithin the Last Call timeframe? Below, Steve states as a co-chair of the group that the WGLC completed wit= hout comment. I assumed that meant it was final - now am I correct that it= is "reopened"? Please advise. Thanks=20 Natalie McNamer -----Original Message----- From: Modern [mailto:modern-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peterson, Jon Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:58 AM To: Steve Donovan ; modern@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Modern] End of WGLC on draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-02 We did in fact get some private comments, and based on those I made a few c= hanges to the document for this version. Given all the interest in credenti= als in STIR and ACME, it made sense to introduce a "credential authority" r= ole in the MODERN framework. One could say that the MODERN framework now gi= ves an overall picture of how we imagine a lot of the components surroundin= g STIR could come together - which might not be a bad destiny for the MODER= N work. Jon Peterson Neustar, Inc. On 6/28/17, 10:13 AM, "Modern on behalf of Steve Donovan" wrote: >All, > >The two week WGLC has completed without comment. We will talk about=20 >next steps for the draft during the MODERN session in Prague. > >Regards, > >Steve > >_______________________________________________ >Modern mailing list >Modern@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern _______________________________________________ Modern mailing list Modern@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern From nobody Mon Jul 17 23:01:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64FF1275AB for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:01:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.881 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0H85qekhX9E1 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81ADC126B72 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-8097.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-8097.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.128.151]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v6I611KI045192 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:01:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) To: modern@ietf.org References: From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:00:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Modern] End of WGLC on draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-02 X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 06:01:05 -0000 Natalie - WGLC is just one step for a document on its way to publication. It is a tool the chairs use to determine that there is consensus in the working group to ask the IESG to review the document for publication. There will be more reviews and opportunity to comment going forward, the most visible being an IETF-wide Last call (IETF LC). Comments are welcome at any time. Early comments are better than late comments. RjS On 7/18/17 6:40 AM, McNamer, Natalie wrote: > I apologize, I am still trying to gain an understanding of the process flows of the IETF - > > Please clarify what this means? I had thought comments needed to be made within the Last Call timeframe? > > Below, Steve states as a co-chair of the group that the WGLC completed without comment. I assumed that meant it was final - now am I correct that it is "reopened"? > > Please advise. > > Thanks > Natalie McNamer > > -----Original Message----- > From: Modern [mailto:modern-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peterson, Jon > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:58 AM > To: Steve Donovan ; modern@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Modern] End of WGLC on draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-02 > > > We did in fact get some private comments, and based on those I made a few changes to the document for this version. Given all the interest in credentials in STIR and ACME, it made sense to introduce a "credential authority" role in the MODERN framework. One could say that the MODERN framework now gives an overall picture of how we imagine a lot of the components surrounding STIR could come together - which might not be a bad destiny for the MODERN work. > > Jon Peterson > Neustar, Inc. > > On 6/28/17, 10:13 AM, "Modern on behalf of Steve Donovan" > wrote: > >> All, >> >> The two week WGLC has completed without comment. We will talk about >> next steps for the draft during the MODERN session in Prague. >> >> Regards, >> >> Steve >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Modern mailing list >> Modern@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern > _______________________________________________ > Modern mailing list > Modern@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern > > _______________________________________________ > Modern mailing list > Modern@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern From nobody Tue Jul 18 00:59:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0A612ECF0 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:59:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=chriswendt-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0uHCGV6eu0BR for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com (mail-wr0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E0AE12ECC0 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id y43so16853164wrd.3 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:59:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=chriswendt-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=rAAHdrdd1rnDGICfJZj6iT1jvGlBUsY8PV37KVdsAm0=; b=yUIByRuBygrGEFm7+ZprX+ilMkqddhG2MFzqMW3BlCWrMkss0jbbYs3HBWZGJfdE1r O2YGJocmMzNSkyhJdLd01OZokG4b2Azt8dBUoFG2bwWiygsiAM9Gjau0MJFNp1MC7PoN 3yIVs3GH6mmuf3URK6RGuw+tOhYsBNAIJO0KoDB0KmaEGk7o7w8w7WKU7Igikfpmp/lb IOHpcO8LNNFHVvzVYp6+91HoYzzBBZjRaiAyE55qWopOn2eHMTs43TFZVXq68n3OiTTD gNrr1s5V7mWKtz5d/k9SWlHHQNd/or3NCLKVqCAcNf9g4NfpmWP/8M7cTluYBzruMguj eY2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=rAAHdrdd1rnDGICfJZj6iT1jvGlBUsY8PV37KVdsAm0=; b=aBn5qfW/vbrdIEe4aShuGwhv4yY/H+An+VyJVodE4jYQZJmYBBH48rZTVqiAVNZscE B+9akOa4lPRLqROqoxE2HFKc5V9e1PHWO8HP/RmboM5xHlYbuKzStHUhI9sXAp0f+Idp JbAcYQVJbRi94vgoeVvDDvvEEkbkhMwZzH1hQPXSDMh+ybjXhLrkn1JE0NSncXjIFgCK jiIc1zg8pQHdOm0MoMuhm3L1JP8tx7OdPgREk9bzy4SZ4vg6K+7jViXnFrA+lo5lFbnW qKwv6+XP1KucuP+w5aWSLJG2847f/2ZOJs+1leSGWs98saA9DJOhw5hXljwbsDvqnlOx ABGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111mWFO8gNS30qCFSSR+QuZZaxaZf82s5AL4jm0+2zutmkB6kyNu n46XlM76HUB30cwe X-Received: by 10.28.59.138 with SMTP id i132mr759872wma.12.1500364783121; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:7920:a125:a5ce:cfa4? ([2001:67c:370:128:7920:a125:a5ce:cfa4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n2sm2520757wmd.19.2017.07.18.00.59.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Chris Wendt In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:59:38 +0200 Cc: Steve Donovan , "modern@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <36D4A6FC-C1F5-4BF7-A9F9-89E2E4646C25@chriswendt.net> References: To: "Peterson, Jon" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Modern] End of WGLC on draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-02 X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:59:46 -0000 I support those changes to aligning STIR/ACME and MODERN credentials and = authority models. Obviously we want to use as common tools as possible = going forward as the telephone network evolves to incorporate STIR = related technologies as well as IP transition related technologies. -Chris > On Jul 17, 2017, at 1:58 PM, Peterson, Jon = wrote: >=20 >=20 > We did in fact get some private comments, and based on those I made a = few > changes to the document for this version. Given all the interest in > credentials in STIR and ACME, it made sense to introduce a "credential > authority" role in the MODERN framework. One could say that the MODERN > framework now gives an overall picture of how we imagine a lot of the > components surrounding STIR could come together - which might not be a = bad > destiny for the MODERN work. >=20 > Jon Peterson > Neustar, Inc. >=20 > On 6/28/17, 10:13 AM, "Modern on behalf of Steve Donovan" > wrote: >=20 >> All, >>=20 >> The two week WGLC has completed without comment. We will talk about >> next steps for the draft during the MODERN session in Prague. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Steve >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Modern mailing list >> Modern@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Modern mailing list > Modern@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern From nobody Tue Jul 18 02:42:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01358126E3A for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:42:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=team.neustar Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6POhCv3k4IUz for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09EDB126C0F for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0078666.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id v6I9Y4Im013938 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:42:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=team.neustar; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : mime-version; s=selector1; bh=BCv4bZfsSUzcgqK5yCOS0SW8nHN6BHAw8vTa7H/81Wo=; b=grC2tABKeZYiOR/LuqRsB3qr4weH7FpQgDddz71c37cbpX2GtbIzjPcuzOSda7C3iDNK po0RAf1rPqgBisK6Gshq/5bNB2A4iwd0xiqd8qmlVPH1eDj5LpHUwRBqsIlXD9rJn3EK RXBxAB0Mp4od1LV/3Scj46f7blREfwkdR9MxEcAv9daIq/jjNgZY25tMQepC3Tvq0PGO cgefSfVU4Zh/cizHFakvWfT1+MNXyjw2ARqoCZMNk2oo6DpLYtp2tIlY2Pc5U19YBLgP wN5OsVGWAhisMKcgR/R8wIMSBrlZDn7NkSBx3zEpf2zWS1Fq2jeASxI01Ph+MU2kP4Qe 0g== Received: from stntexhc11.cis.neustar.com ([156.154.17.216]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2bqf5te4af-1 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:42:27 -0400 Received: from STNTEXMB11.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.1.47]) by stntexhc11.cis.neustar.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:42:26 -0400 From: "McGarry, Tom" To: Modern List Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-peterson-modern-teri-03 Thread-Index: AQHS/6opXhv5ceAJck+0nvw88CJe3Q== Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:42:25 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.4.160422 x-originating-ip: [10.96.9.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D593503D42C5Btommcgarryneustarbiz_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-07-18_04:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1706020000 definitions=main-1707180157 Archived-At: Subject: [Modern] Comments on draft-peterson-modern-teri-03 X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:42:30 -0000 --_000_D593503D42C5Btommcgarryneustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jon, there are a few places where you need more text, e.g., 4.2.1.1, 4.2.1.= 1.1, 4.2.1.6, and 4.2.2. I'll work with you on that. Tom McGarry --_000_D593503D42C5Btommcgarryneustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <0A26B752F3785E47A34290163E8ECF9C@neustar.biz> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jon, there are a few places where you need more text, e.g., 4.2.1.1, 4= .2.1.1.1, 4.2.1.6, and 4.2.2.  I'll work with you on that.  

Tom McGarry
--_000_D593503D42C5Btommcgarryneustarbiz_-- From nobody Fri Jul 21 01:14:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: modern@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0134C131748 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:14:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2leARzwaWcaM for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:14:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz131.inmotionhosting.com (biz131.inmotionhosting.com [23.235.209.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 108A012EB2B for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:14:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-8344.meeting.ietf.org ([31.133.131.68]:51897) by biz131.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dYT4P-003Rc3-5b for modern@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:14:10 -0700 To: modern@ietf.org References: From: Steve Donovan Message-ID: <4444ef07-0224-91a4-2e8a-a0f49ef41eb9@usdonovans.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:13:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz131.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - usdonovans.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: biz131.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: srdonovan@usdonovans.com X-Authenticated-Sender: biz131.inmotionhosting.com: srdonovan@usdonovans.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Modern] End of WGLC on draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-02 X-BeenThere: modern@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managing, Ordering, Distributing, Exposing, & Registering telephone Numbers non-WG discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:14:12 -0000 Natalie, In this specific case, you are correct, with a new version of the draft submitted concurrently with the WGLC, we can consider the document re-opened. As Robert said, comments are welcome at any time, but there will be a new WGLC on the new version of the document. And, of course, you do not need to wait until the new WGLC to submit comments. Steve On 7/18/17 8:00 AM, Robert Sparks wrote: > Natalie - > > WGLC is just one step for a document on its way to publication. It is > a tool the chairs use to determine that there is consensus in the > working group to ask the IESG to review the document for publication. > > There will be more reviews and opportunity to comment going forward, > the most visible being an IETF-wide Last call (IETF LC). > > Comments are welcome at any time. Early comments are better than late > comments. > > RjS > > > On 7/18/17 6:40 AM, McNamer, Natalie wrote: >> I apologize, I am still trying to gain an understanding of the >> process flows of the IETF - >> >> Please clarify what this means? I had thought comments needed to be >> made within the Last Call timeframe? >> >> Below, Steve states as a co-chair of the group that the WGLC >> completed without comment. I assumed that meant it was final - now >> am I correct that it is "reopened"? >> >> Please advise. >> >> Thanks >> Natalie McNamer >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Modern [mailto:modern-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peterson, Jon >> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:58 AM >> To: Steve Donovan ; modern@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Modern] End of WGLC on >> draft-ietf-modern-problem-framework-02 >> >> >> We did in fact get some private comments, and based on those I made a >> few changes to the document for this version. Given all the interest >> in credentials in STIR and ACME, it made sense to introduce a >> "credential authority" role in the MODERN framework. One could say >> that the MODERN framework now gives an overall picture of how we >> imagine a lot of the components surrounding STIR could come together >> - which might not be a bad destiny for the MODERN work. >> >> Jon Peterson >> Neustar, Inc. >> >> On 6/28/17, 10:13 AM, "Modern on behalf of Steve Donovan" >> wrote: >> >>> All, >>> >>> The two week WGLC has completed without comment. We will talk about >>> next steps for the draft during the MODERN session in Prague. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Modern mailing list >>> Modern@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern >> _______________________________________________ >> Modern mailing list >> Modern@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Modern mailing list >> Modern@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern > > _______________________________________________ > Modern mailing list > Modern@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/modern