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Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 16:30:46 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: "'mpls@ietf.org'" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] Las Call Closed: Re: WG last call on draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label-03
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Working Group,

this Working Group Last Call has been closed.

There has been comments that the authors have agreed to, could the
authors please address these comments and publish a new version of
the  of the draft.

/Loa
as working group chair

On 2012-06-14 17:31, Ross Callon wrote:
> Working Group;
> This is to start a two week working group last call on:
> - draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label-03
> Please send comments to the mpls working group list.
> The working group last call ends June 28, 2012.
> Also, please note that there was an IPR disclosure on this document sent
> to the MPLS mailing list yesterday, with the subject line “IPR
> Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to
> draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label-03”.
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13



From vero.zheng@huawei.com  Sun Jul  1 18:40:56 2012
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From: Vero Zheng <vero.zheng@huawei.com>
To: Manav Bhatia <manavbhatia@gmail.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Speaking a=
s co-author, none on my side.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">BR,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Vero<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSu=
n">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun"> mpls-bounces@ietf.org=
 [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">=B4=FA=B1=ED =
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSu=
n">Manav Bhatia<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=CB=CD=
=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun"> 2012</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-US">6</span>=D4=C2<=
span lang=3D"EN-US">29</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 5:26<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Loa Andersson<br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-cry=
pto-auth@tools.ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth<o:p></o:p><=
/span></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking as a co-author of&nbsp=
;draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I am not aware of an IPR that a=
pplies to this draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
Cheers, Manav<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 1:30 AM=
, Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.n=
u</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Working Group and authors;<br>
<br>
the authors of draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth is ready to<br>
be adopted as a working group draft, modulo an quick update based<br>
on comments from the MPLS-RT review. The poll will be started as<br>
soon as we have version -05 of the document.<br>
<br>
Hovwever this does not need to stop us from starting the IPR poll<br>
on this document to check whether there is IPR on the document that<br>
needs to be disclosed. This poll ends July 13th.<br>
<br>
Are you aware of any IPR that applies to<br>
draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth?<br>
<br>
If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules<br>
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<br>
<br>
If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to<br>
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant<br>
IPR. The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list. The documen=
ts will not advance to the next stage until a response<br>
has been received from each author and contributor.<br>
<br>
If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or<br>
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any<br=
>
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<br>
<br>
Thanks, Loa<br>
(as MPLS WG co-chair)<span style=3D"color:#888888"><br>
<br>
<span class=3D"hoenzb">-- </span><br>
<br>
<br>
<span class=3D"hoenzb">Loa Andersson &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa.=
andersson@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">
loa.andersson@ericsson.com</a></span><br>
<span class=3D"hoenzb">Sr Strategy and Standards Manager &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@p=
i.nu</a></span><br>
<span class=3D"hoenzb">Ericsson Inc &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;phone: &#43;46 10 717 52=
 13</span><br>
<span class=3D"hoenzb">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &#43;46 767 72 92 13</span><br>
<br>
<span class=3D"hoenzb">_______________________________________________</spa=
n><br>
<span class=3D"hoenzb">mpls mailing list</span><br>
<span class=3D"hoenzb"><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">m=
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</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
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--_000_2EEA459CD95CCB4988BFAFC0F2287B5C2C91580ASZXEML520MBXchi_--

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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tools.ietf.org" <draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,  Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro=
up of the IETF.

	Title           : Return Path Specified LSP Ping
	Author(s)       : Mach(Guoyi) Chen
                          Wei Cao
                          So Ning
                          Frederic Jounay
                          Simon Delord
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt
	Pages           : 20
	Date            : 2012-07-02

Abstract:
   This document defines extensions to the failure-detection protocol
   for Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)
   known as "LSP Ping" that allow selection of the LSP to use for the
   echo reply return path.  Enforcing a specific return path can be used
   to verify bidirectional connectivity and also increase LSP ping
   robustness.  It may also be used by Bidirectional Forwarding
   Detection (BFD) for MPLS bootstrap signaling thereby making BFD for
   MPLS more robust.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-=
ping

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05

A diff from previous version is available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-=
lsp-ping-05


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From loa@pi.nu  Tue Jul  3 11:36:44 2012
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Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping
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Working Group and authors;

we are preparing draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping -
for working group last call.

Before the we start the working group last call, we would like to
check whether there is IPR on the document that needs to be disclosed.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
has been received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.


Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-gtsm-09.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro=
up of the IETF.

	Title           : The Generalized TTL Security Mechanism (GTSM) for Label =
Distribution Protocol (LDP)
	Author(s)       : Carlos Pignataro
                          Rajiv Asati
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-gtsm-09.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2012-07-03

Abstract:
   The Generalized TTL Security Mechanism (GTSM) describes a generalized
   use of a packet's Time to Live (TTL) (IPv4) or Hop Limit (IPv6) to
   verify that the packet was sourced by a node on a connected link,
   thereby protecting the router's IP control-plane from CPU utilization
   based attacks.  This technique improves security and is used by many
   protocols.  This document defines the GTSM use for the Label
   Distribution Protocol (LDP).

   This specification uses a bit reserved in RFC 5036 and therefore
   updates RFC 5036.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-gtsm

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-gtsm-09

A diff from previous version is available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-ldp-gtsm-09


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From jsaldana@unizar.es  Wed Jul  4 00:59:52 2012
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From: "Jose Saldana" <jsaldana@unizar.es>
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Subject: [mpls] Asking for feedback about draft-saldana-tsvwg-tcmtf
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Hello all,

=20

I am one of the authors of
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-tsvwg-tcmtf/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-tsvwg-tcmtf/, which is =
being
discussed in the Transport Area Working Group. Adrian Farrel has =
suggested
me to ask for your feedback in order to take a new step with the draft.

=20

The main idea of the draft is to combine standard protocols that provide
compression, multiplexing, and tunneling over a network path for the =
purpose
of reducing the bandwidth used when multiple streams are carried over a
path.

=20

It was first thought for real-time flows, but it can also be applied to
other ones. Some examples of use:

=20

- Online "First Person Shooter" (FPS) games use UDP datagrams, and they =
are
one of the most "real-time" applications nowadays. Some examples: =
Counter
Strike, Halo, Quake.

=20

- Online "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games" (MMORPG): =
They
use TCP, but can be considered "real-time", since the actions of the =
players
have to be transmitted very quickly to the server. It should be taken =
into
account that player vs player fights are one of the possible activities =
of
the game. Some examples: World of Warcraft (more than 10 million
subscribers).

=20

- TCP is also getting used for media delivery. For many reasons, such as
avoiding firewalls, the standard IP/ UDP/ RTP protocol stack is =
substituted
in many cases by IP/ TCP/ HTTP/ FLV [3].

=20

- Another interesting scenario is satellite communication links.
Multiplexing small packets into one packet for transmission would =
improve
the efficiency. Satellite links would also find it useful to multiplex =
small
TCP packets into one packet - this could be especially interesting for
compressing TCP ACKs.

=20

Now we are thinking about the inclusion of MPLS as another option for =
the
tunneling part, in addition to L2TP/IP. We have thought to add this
subsection to the draft:

----------------

2.4.2 MPLS tunneling

=20

In some scenarios, mainly in operator=B4s core networks, the use of MPLS =
is
widely deployed as data transport method. The adoption of MPLS as =
tunneling
layer in that proposal intends to natively adapt TCMTF to those =
transport
networks.

=20

In the same way that layer 3 tunnels, MPLS paths, identified by MPLS =
labels,
established between Label Edge Routers (LSRs) could be used to transport =
the
compressed payloads within an MPLS network. This way, multiplexing layer
must be placed over MPLS layer. Note that, in this case, layer 3 tunnel
headers should not be used, with the consequent data efficiency =
improvement.

---------------

=20

So the new scheme could be this one:

=20

       TCP    UDP  RTP/UDP

        |      |      |

         \     |     /                    ------------------------------

           \   |   /

Nothing or ROHC or ECRTP or IPHC             header compressing layer

               |

               |                          ------------------------------

               |

   PPPMUX or other mux protocols                multiplexing layer

               |

              / \                         ------------------------------

             /   \

            /     \

   GRE or L2TP     \                              tunneling layer

          |        MPLS

          |                               ------------------------------

          IP

=20

We don=92t think any modification in MPLS would be necessary, but your
feedback will always be interesting.

=20

Thank you very much,

=20

Jose Saldana

=20


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href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-tsvwg-tcmtf/"><spa=
n =
lang=3DEN-US>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-tsvwg-tcmtf/<=
/span></a><span lang=3DEN-US>, which is being discussed in the Transport =
Area Working Group. Adrian Farrel has suggested me to ask for your =
feedback in order to take a new step with the =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The main idea of the draft is to combine standard protocols =
that provide compression, multiplexing, and tunneling over a network =
path for the purpose of reducing the bandwidth used when multiple =
streams are carried over a path.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>It was first thought for =
real-time flows, but it can also be applied to other ones. Some examples =
of use:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>- Online &quot;First Person Shooter&quot; (FPS) games use =
UDP datagrams, and they are one of the most &quot;real-time&quot; =
applications nowadays. Some examples: Counter Strike, Halo, =
Quake.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>- Online &quot;Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing =
Games&quot; (MMORPG): They use TCP, but can be considered =
&quot;real-time&quot;, since the actions of the players have to be =
transmitted very quickly to the server. It should be taken into account =
that player vs player fights are one of the possible activities of the =
game. Some examples: World of Warcraft (more than 10 million =
subscribers).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>- TCP is also getting used for media delivery. For many =
reasons, such as avoiding firewalls, the standard IP/ UDP/ RTP protocol =
stack is substituted in many cases by IP/ TCP/ HTTP/ FLV =
[3].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>- Another interesting scenario is satellite communication =
links. Multiplexing small packets into one packet for transmission would =
improve the efficiency. Satellite links would also find it useful to =
multiplex small TCP packets into one packet - this could be especially =
interesting for compressing TCP ACKs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Now we are thinking about the =
inclusion of MPLS as another option for the tunneling part, in addition =
to L2TP/IP. We have thought to add this subsection to the =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>----------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>2.4.2 MPLS =
tunneling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>In some scenarios, mainly in operator=B4s core networks, =
the use of MPLS is widely deployed as data transport method. The =
adoption of MPLS as tunneling layer in that proposal intends to natively =
adapt TCMTF to those transport networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>In the same way that layer 3 =
tunnels, MPLS paths, identified by MPLS labels, established between =
Label Edge Routers (LSRs) could be used to transport the compressed =
payloads within an MPLS network. This way, multiplexing layer must be =
placed over MPLS layer. Note that, in this case, layer 3 tunnel headers =
should not be used, with the consequent data efficiency =
improvement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>---------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>So the new scheme could be this =
one:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 TCP=A0=A0=A0 UDP=A0 =
RTP/UDP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 |=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 |=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
|<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 \=A0=A0=A0=A0 |=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
/=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
\=A0=A0 |=A0=A0 /<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Nothing or ROHC or ECRTP or =
IPHC=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 header compressing =
layer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0|<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
|=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0 ------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
|<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0 =
PPPMUX or other mux =
protocols=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 multiplexing =
layer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
|<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 / =
\=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
 ------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 /=A0=A0 =
\<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 /=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
\<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0 =
GRE or L2TP=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
\=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 tunneling layer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
|=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 MPLS<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
|=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
IP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>We =
don&#8217;t think any modification in MPLS would be necessary, but your =
feedback will always be interesting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Thank you very =
much,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ES'>Jose Saldana<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01CD59CB.C30C2A80--


From loa@pi.nu  Thu Jul  5 07:18:41 2012
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, MPLS-TP ad hoc team <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-use-cases-and-design@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-use-cases-and-design-02
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Working Group,

this last call has been closed. We have no comments and will now
send a request to IESG to have the document published as an
Informational RFC.

/Loa
for teh wg co-chairs

On 2012-06-18 18:03, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> this is to start a two week working group last call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-use-cases-and-design-02.
>
> Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> We have done a poll among the authors and on the mpls wg mailing list.
> All the authors has responded that they are not aware any IPR claims
> on this document. Most of the authors have responded on the wg mailing
> list, but four authors have only sent the mail to the working group
> chairs. While this is enough for the wg group chairs to go ahead and
> start the working group last call, we would also like the remaining
> authors to send their statement to the working group mailing list.
>
> We are not aware of any IPR claims on this document.
>
> This working group last call ends July 3rd, 2012.
>
> /Loa
> (for the wg co-chairs)
>
>
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13



From kishoret@juniper.net  Fri Jul  6 09:03:28 2012
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From: Kishore Tiruveedhula <kishoret@juniper.net>
To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "'mpls@ietf.org'" <mpls@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 12:02:38 -0400
Thread-Topic: Poll for WG adoption for draft-napierala-mpls-targeted-mldp
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--_000_A0F87AA600EF73468BA3741CFF49DE4F0366F7A817EEEMBX01WFjnp_
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Support.

Thanks,
Kishore

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ros=
s Callon
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:07 AM
To: 'mpls@ietf.org'
Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-napierala-mpls-targeted-mldp

Working Group,

This is to start a poll to see if there is support to adopt

   draft-napierala-mpls-targeted-mldp

as an mpls working group draft.

Pleased send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@iet=
f.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>).

Due to the upcoming July 4th holiday in the US the poll will be extended fo=
r an additional week (beyond the normal two week poll). This poll ends at t=
he end of the day July 11, 2012

Ross
for the mpls wg chairs



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nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Support.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col=
or:#1F497D'>Kishore<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.=
5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:so=
lid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></=
b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> mpls-=
bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ross Ca=
llon<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'mpls@=
ietf.org'<br><b>Subject:</b> [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-napieral=
a-mpls-targeted-mldp<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Working Group,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>This is to start a poll to see if ther=
e is support to adopt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;draft-napierala-mpls-targeted-mldp<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>as an mp=
ls working group draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:Consolas'>Pleased send your comments to the mpls working group ma=
iling list (<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>).<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Due to the upc=
oming July 4th holiday in the US the poll will be extended for an additiona=
l week (beyond the normal two week poll). This poll ends at the end of the =
day July 11, 2012<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Consolas'>Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>for the mp=
ls wg chairs</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>=

--_000_A0F87AA600EF73468BA3741CFF49DE4F0366F7A817EEEMBX01WFjnp_--

From loa@pi.nu  Sat Jul  7 01:23:19 2012
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Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 10:23:26 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: [mpls] Fwd: NomCom 2012-13 Call for Volunteers
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Members of the working group,

if you are eligible please consider volunteering!

/Loa


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: NomCom 2012-13 Call for Volunteers
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 14:15:33 -0700
From: NomCom Chair <nomcom-chair@ietf.org>
To: IETF Announcement List <ietf-announce@ietf.org>

The IETF nominating committee process for 2012-13 has begun. The IETF
nominating committee appoints folks to fill the open slots on the
IAOC, the IAB, and the IESG. The 10 nominating committee members are
selected randomly from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the
better chance we have of choosing a random yet representative cross
section of the IETF population.  The details of the operation of the
nomcom can be found in RFC 3777.

To be eligible, volunteers for the nomcom need to have attended 3 of
the past 5 IETF meetings as of the time this announcement goes out.
That is, 3 meetings from IETF 79 (Beijing) - IETF 83 (Paris). If you
qualify, and if you will not be seeking appointment to any of the open
positions that this nomcom will be filling, please consider
volunteering.

The list of people whose terms end with the March 2013 IETF meeting,
and thus the positions for which the nominating committee is
responsible for filling, are as follows:

IAOC:
--------
Dave Crocker

IAB:
--------
Alissa Cooper
Joel Halpern
David Kessens
Danny McPherson
Jon Peterson
Dave Thaler

IESG:
--------
Russ Housley (General Area)
Pete Resnick (Applications Area)
Ralph Droms (Internet Area)
Ronald Bonica (Operations and Management Area)
Robert Sparks (Real-Time Applications and Infrastructure Area)
Adrian Farrel (Routing Area)
Stephen Farrell (Security Area)
Wesley Eddy (Transport Area)

The primary activity for this nomcom will begin in August 2012 and
should be completed in January 2013. The nomcom will be collecting
requirements from the community, as well as talking to candidates and
obtaining feedback from community members about candidates. There will
be regularly scheduled conference calls to ensure progress. Thus,
being a nomcom member does require some time commitment.

Please volunteer by sending an email before 11:59 pm EDT (UTC - 4
hours) August 5, 2012 as follows:

To: mlepinski.ietf@gmail.com
Subject: Nomcom 2012-13 Volunteer

Please include the following information in the body:

<Your Full Name>  // As you enter in the IETF Registration Form,
                     // First/Given name followed by Last/Family Name
<Current Primary Affiliation>
                 // typically what goes in the Company field
                 //  in the IETF Registration Form
[<all email addresses used to Register for the past 5 IETF meetings>]
<Preferred email address>  //
<Telephone number>         // For confirmation if selected

Please expect an email response from me within 3 business days stating
whether or not you are qualified.  If you don't receive a response,
please re-send your email with the tag "RESEND:" added to the subject
line.

If you are not yet sure you would like to volunteer, please consider
that nomcom members play a very important role in shaping the
leadership of the IETF.  Ensuring the leadership of the IETF is fair
and balanced and comprised of those who can lead the IETF in the right
direction is an important responsibility that rests on the IETF
participants at large. Volunteering for the nomcom is a good way of
contributing toward that goal.

I will be publishing a more detailed timetable for nomcom activities,
as well as details of the randomness seeds to be used for the RFC 3797
selection process, within the next couple weeks.

Thank you,
Matthew Lepinski
mlepinski.ietf@gmail.com
nomcom-chair@ietf.org

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13




From loa@pi.nu  Mon Jul  9 08:03:57 2012
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] working group las call on draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt
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Working Group,

this is to start a working group last call on

draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt

Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

This working group last call July 23, 2012.

Please note that there is an IPR disclosure against this draft.

/Loa
for the MPLS working group co-chairs
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


From adrian@olddog.co.uk  Tue Jul 10 05:20:33 2012
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Cc: 'Fan Peng' <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, lilianyuan@chinamobile.com, ietf@cdl.asgaard.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] Feedback request: draft on IP/MPLS transmission interruption
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I think the MPLS WG should look at this I-D as well.
 
Feedback to the authors or on the OPSAWG list, please.
 
Adrian
 
From: opsawg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan
Peng
Sent: 10 July 2012 05:52
To: opsawg@ietf.org
Cc: ietf@cdl.asgaard.org; lilianyuan@chinamobile.com
Subject: [OPSAWG] Feedback request: draft on IP/MPLS transmission interruption
 
Dear all,
 
We have just updated the draft on IP/MPLS transmission interruption to 01
version, and we would like to hear comments from you.
 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fan-opsawg-transmission-interruption-01
 
We presented the last version in Paris hoping the industry could discuss the
problem of whether the sub-50ms outage time requirement is suitable for IP/MPLS.
We proposed at the meeting two principles for network and service design,
configuration and operation: the IP/MPLS bearer should satisfy quality
requirements of upper level services and applications, while services and
applications should also take into account the intrinsic IP capabilities. We did
analysis on softswitch and reached the IP interruption requirement of 3 sec.
 
In this 01 version we added case of parameter configuration in SS7 network to
illustrate principle 2 (adaptation to IP). We gave examples on SCTP and M2PA and
delivered the concept that upper levels should be more tolerable to IP best
effort to avoid frequent disconnection. Parameter configuration needs to
consider both requirement of application and nature of IP. Influence on service
like SMS is also involved.
 
Any feedback would be highly appreciated.
 
Thanks and regards,
 
Fan, Peng

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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" Name=3D"toc 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" Name=3D"toc 7"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" Name=3D"toc 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" Name=3D"toc 9"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"35" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"caption"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"10" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Title"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"1" Name=3D"Default =
Paragraph Font"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"11" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Subtitle"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"22" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Strong"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"20" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"59" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Table Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" =
Name=3D"Placeholder Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"1" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"No Spacing"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Dark List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Shading Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" =
Name=3D"Revision"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"34" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"List Paragraph"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"29" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"30" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Intense Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Shading Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Shading Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Shading Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Shading Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Shading Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"19" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Subtle Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"21" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Intense Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"31" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Subtle Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"32" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Intense Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"33" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Book Title"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"37" Name=3D"Bibliography"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"TOC Heading"/>
</w:LatentStyles>
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/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
	{font-family:Calibri;
	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;
	mso-font-charset:0;
	mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
	mso-font-pitch:variable;
	mso-font-signature:-520092929 1073786111 9 0 415 0;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;
	mso-font-charset:0;
	mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
	mso-font-pitch:variable;
	mso-font-signature:-520081665 -1073717157 41 0 66047 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{mso-style-unhide:no;
	mso-style-qformat:yes;
	mso-style-parent:"";
	margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	text-align:justify;
	mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
	font-size:10.5pt;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
	mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{mso-style-noshow:yes;
	mso-style-priority:99;
	color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;
	text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{mso-style-noshow:yes;
	mso-style-priority:99;
	color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;
	text-underline:single;}
span.EmailStyle17
	{mso-style-type:personal;
	mso-style-noshow:yes;
	mso-style-unhide:no;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
	mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
	mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
	mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
	color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle18
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	mso-style-noshow:yes;
	mso-style-unhide:no;
	mso-ansi-font-size:11.0pt;
	mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
	mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
	mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
	mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
	mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
	color:#1F497D;}
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@page WordSection1
	{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
	margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;
	mso-header-margin:36.0pt;
	mso-footer-margin:36.0pt;
	mso-paper-source:0;}
div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
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table.MsoNormalTable
	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
	mso-style-noshow:yes;
	mso-style-priority:99;
	mso-style-parent:"";
	mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;
	mso-para-margin:0cm;
	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
	font-size:10.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple =
style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt;text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-fa=
mily:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I =
think the MPLS WG should look at this I-D as =
well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-fa=
mily:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-fa=
mily:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Feedback to the authors or on the OPSAWG list, =
please.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-fa=
mily:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-fa=
mily:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-fa=
mily:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> =
opsawg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Fan Peng<br><b>Sent:</b> 10 July 2012 05:52<br><b>To:</b> =
opsawg@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> ietf@cdl.asgaard.org; =
lilianyuan@chinamobile.com<br><b>Subject:</b> [OPSAWG] Feedback request: =
draft on IP/MPLS transmission =
interruption<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Dear =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>We have =
just updated the draft on IP/MPLS transmission interruption to 01 =
version, and we would like to hear comments from =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fan-opsawg-transmission-interrup=
tion-01">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fan-opsawg-transmission-interru=
ption-01</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>We =
presented the last version in Paris hoping the industry could discuss =
the problem of whether the sub-50ms outage time requirement is suitable =
for IP/MPLS. We proposed at the meeting two principles for network and =
service design, configuration and operation: the IP/MPLS bearer should =
satisfy quality requirements of upper level services and applications, =
while services and applications should also take into account the =
intrinsic IP capabilities. We did analysis on softswitch and reached the =
IP interruption requirement of 3 sec.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>In this 01 =
version we added case of parameter configuration in SS7 network to =
illustrate principle 2 (adaptation to IP). We gave examples on SCTP and =
M2PA and delivered the concept that upper levels should be more =
tolerable to IP best effort to avoid frequent disconnection. Parameter =
configuration needs to consider both requirement of application and =
nature of IP. Influence on service like SMS is also =
involved.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Any =
feedback would be highly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Thanks and =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Fan, =
Peng<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01DB_01CD5E9E.D293D5C0--


From loa@pi.nu  Tue Jul 10 05:33:37 2012
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] please comment on draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-04
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Working Group,

we have an MPLS-TP framework that still remains to be completed.

This is not a wg last call or a poll to make the draft a working group
document, but I would anyway want to solicit comments on
draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-04.

Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org),
it would help to have comments before Aug 20, since the authors plan
to update the draft after that and the process to accept it as a working
group draft will be started as soon as we see the new version.

/Loa (wg chair hat on)
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


From loa@pi.nu  Tue Jul 10 05:39:29 2012
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Cc: ietf@cdl.asgaard.org, mpls@ietf.org, lilianyuan@chinamobile.com, 'Fan Peng' <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Feedback request: draft on IP/MPLS transmission interruption
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Working Group,

Adrian was quicker than I was on this, just want echo his sentiment.
I think that by default the comments should go to the opsawg mailing
list - but if you for some reason is not subscribed to that list, send
them to the mpls wg list or directly to me and I will forward.

/Loa

On 2012-07-10 14:20, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> I think the MPLS WG should look at this I-D as well.
>
> Feedback to the authors or on the OPSAWG list, please.
>
> Adrian
>
> *From:*opsawg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Fan Peng
> *Sent:* 10 July 2012 05:52
> *To:* opsawg@ietf.org
> *Cc:* ietf@cdl.asgaard.org; lilianyuan@chinamobile.com
> *Subject:* [OPSAWG] Feedback request: draft on IP/MPLS transmission
> interruption
>
> Dear all,
>
> We have just updated the draft on IP/MPLS transmission interruption to
> 01 version, and we would like to hear comments from you.
>
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fan-opsawg-transmission-interruption-01
>
> We presented the last version in Paris hoping the industry could discuss
> the problem of whether the sub-50ms outage time requirement is suitable
> for IP/MPLS. We proposed at the meeting two principles for network and
> service design, configuration and operation: the IP/MPLS bearer should
> satisfy quality requirements of upper level services and applications,
> while services and applications should also take into account the
> intrinsic IP capabilities. We did analysis on softswitch and reached the
> IP interruption requirement of 3 sec.
>
> In this 01 version we added case of parameter configuration in SS7
> network to illustrate principle 2 (adaptation to IP). We gave examples
> on SCTP and M2PA and delivered the concept that upper levels should be
> more tolerable to IP best effort to avoid frequent disconnection.
> Parameter configuration needs to consider both requirement of
> application and nature of IP. Influence on service like SMS is also
> involved.
>
> Any feedback would be highly appreciated.
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Fan, Peng
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13



From eric.gray@ericsson.com  Tue Jul 10 06:21:10 2012
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From: Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:21:28 -0400
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers@tools.ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers@tools.ietf.org
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I am unaware of any IPR relating to this Internet Draft.=20

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa=
 Andersson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:48 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc tea=
m; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers@tools.ietf=
.org

Working Group and authors;

the authors of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03 has
asked that the draft is working group last called.

Before the working group last call, we would like to check whether
there is IPR on the document that needs to be disclosed. This poll ends
July 10th.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list. The=20
documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
has been received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)

--=20


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From loa@pi.nu  Tue Jul 10 06:49:49 2012
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Subject: [mpls] wg last call draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03
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Working Group,

this is to start a working group last call on
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03.

Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

We have done an IPR poll among the authors and on the mpls wg mailing
list. All the authors has responded that they are not aware any IPR
claims on this document.

No IPR disclosures has been filed against this document.

This working group last call would normally end July 22, 2012, but
since we at that time are in the publication cut-off period prior to
the Vancouver meeting this wg last call ends when the cut-off is
lifted.

/Loa
(for the wg co-chairs)


-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


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From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>
To: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Last Call draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-08
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Subject: [mpls] WG Last Call draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-08
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Working Group(s),

This is to start a Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls=
-tp-oam-ext-08.

Please send your comments to the CCAMP WG mailing list.

This working group last call ends July 24th.

Deborah (and Lou)



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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Luca Martini <lmartini@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [PWE3] draft-ietf-pwe3-rfc4447bis-00.txt Notes
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [PWE3] draft-ietf-pwe3-rfc4447bis-00.txt Notes
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Luca (and all),
I fully support the idea of progressing RFC 4447 to Internet Standard. 

Looking up the draft, I have found the following difference with the current=
 text:

RFC 4447, Section 3:
       LDP MUST be used in its  "downstream unsolicited" mode.
which is quite unambiguous.


draft-ietf-pwe3-rfc4447bis-00, Section 3, changes this to:
       LDP MUST exchange PW FEC label bindings in downstream unsolicited man=
ner, independent of the
       negotiated label advertisement mode of the LDP session. 

I assume that this is the change you've had in mind when you said:
""Added text to specify that downstream unsolicited bit does not apply to PW=
 application..."
even if the actual text states that it does apply.

But, what is more serious, this seems to contradict the following statement=
 in RFC 5036, Section 2.6:
      However, for any given LDP session, each LSR must be aware of the labe=
l distribution method used by its peer
      in order to avoid situations where one peer using Downstream  Unsolici=
ted label distribution assumes its peer is also. 

and further in Section 2.6.3:
   Each interface on an LSR is configured to operate in either
   Downstream Unsolicited or Downstream on Demand advertisement mode.
   LSRs exchange advertisement modes during initialization. 

I am not sure that the proposed change in 4447 complies with the quoted stat=
ements in 5036.

A reference (in the notes only, not in the draft) to draft-raza (which has n=
ot yet been posted as a WG document) does not justify such a deviation IMHO.=
 It could also put 4447bis on hold if an explicit dependency is created. At=
 the very least we should hear what the MPLS WG has to say on that.

And, speaking about references, I see that RFC 4448 is marked as "Work in Pr=
ogress" in the draft.

Is it just a typo, or do you imply that it is going to undergo a revision so=
on?

Hopefully these notes will be useful.

Regards,
     Sasha

________________________________________
From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Luca Martin=
i [lmartini@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:35 PM
To: pwe3
Subject: [PWE3] draft-ietf-pwe3-rfc4447bis-00.txt Notes

WG,

At the request of the chairs, I have posted the initial version of an
update to rfc4447.

This is the next step in the process defined by rfc6410 to progress this
document to "Internet Standard".
Quoting rfc6410:

"   A specification may be, and indeed, is likely to be, revised as it
    advances from Proposed Standard to Internet Standard.  When a revised
    specification is proposed for advancement to Internet Standard, the
    IESG shall determine the scope and significance of the changes to the
    specification, and, if necessary and appropriate, modify the
    recommended action.  Minor revisions and the removal of unused
    features are expected, but a significant revision may require that
    the specification accumulate more experience at Proposed Standard
    before progressing."

According to the above guidelines, I have revised the rfc4447 document
to incorporate all erratas , and a WG discussions about the PW
encapsulation being symmetric in both direction of traffic. I also added
a clarification about the LDP mode bit as per MPLS WG discussion.
Let me know what else I might have missed.

Here is a list of changes from my log:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------------------------------------
- Updated all references - published v00 of bis rfc draft
- Added clarification about PW always being symmetrical in both
direction of traffic.
- Changed Generalized ID FEC element, and  Generalized PWid FEC element
to >> Generalized PWid FEC element to be consistent with IANA allocation
and within the document ( this was noted in errata, but IMHO incorrectly
rejected )
- Errata ID: 1530 - accepted
- Errata ID: 3112 - accepted
- Errata ID: 3114 - accepted
- Errata ID: 3115 - removed table
- Errata ID: 86 - accepted
- Errata ID: 938  - accepted
- Added text to specify that downstream unsolicited bit does not apply
to pw application according to
draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-02.txt (WG document of MPLS WG)
- made source identical , to rfc

----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------------------------------------

Thanks.
Luca
_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3
This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
ion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If yo=
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From loa@pi.nu  Wed Jul 11 00:48:16 2012
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Cc: huub.van.helvoort@huawei.com, mpls@ietf.org, greg.jones@itu.int, yoichi.maeda@ttc.or.jp, hiroshi.ota@itu.int, rcallon@juniper.net, tsbsg15@itu.int, bilel.jamoussi@itu.int, elear@cisco.com, Ghani.Abbas@ericsson.com
Subject: Re: [mpls] New Liaison Statement, "Response to LS 392 "Request advance work on the p2mp framework in MPLS-TP""
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All,

when I sent out the liaison in response to LS392 "Request advance work
on the p2mp framework in MPLS-TP" I asked that comments should be sent
to the MPLS wg mailing list, but indicated the wrong mailing list.

In the liaison on the liaison statement page this has now been corrected
and says mpls@ietf.org. please use the working group mailing lsit.

/Loa
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13



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Subject: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mess=
age in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, i=
t seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw B=
FD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types ha=
ve been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, es=
pecially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text in=
 Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over LSP=
 with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since i=
t uses un-capitalized "may" and not one of the IETF reserved requirement lev=
el words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type=
 for the MPLS-TP CC message in
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428">RFC 6428</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Looking at both this RFC and <a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc5885">
RFC 5885</a>, it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the form=
at of the raw BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different=
 G-ACH types have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create intero=
perability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GA=
L) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capabili=
ty to run BFD over LSP with the
 G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since it uses un=
-capitalized &#8220;may&#8221; and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 642=
8 (and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If=
 you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.
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Subject: [mpls] SDN Summit 2013. Call for proposals
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The second edition of the SDN Summit will be co-located with the MPLS World
Congress in Paris from 21 to 22 March, 2013. 

Key experts in the open networking field will confront practical
implementations with conceptual views.

A call for proposals is open until September 30:
<http://www.uppersideconferences.com/sdnsummit2013/sdn2013cfp.html>
http://www.uppersideconferences.com/sdnsummit2013/sdn2013cfp.html

 


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'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The second =
edition of the SDN Summit will be co-located with the MPLS World =
Congress in Paris from <b>21 to 22 March, 2013. =
<o:p></o:p></b></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-autospace:none=
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style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Key experts =
in the open networking field will confront practical implementations =
with conceptual views.</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
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'><span class=3Dapple-style-span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>A call for =
proposals is open until September 30: </span></span><span =
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From: "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] wg last call draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03
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[Resending]=0A=
I am not aware of any IPR on the draft.=0A=
=0A=
Thanks,=0A=
=0A=
Sami=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mpls-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Loa Anders=
son [loa@pi.nu]=0A=
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:50 AM=0A=
To: mpls@ietf.org=0A=
Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu=
-t-identifiers@tools.ietf.org=0A=
Subject: [mpls] wg last call draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03=0A=
=0A=
Working Group,=0A=
=0A=
this is to start a working group last call on=0A=
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03.=0A=
=0A=
Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).=0A=
=0A=
We have done an IPR poll among the authors and on the mpls wg mailing=0A=
list. All the authors has responded that they are not aware any IPR=0A=
claims on this document.=0A=
=0A=
No IPR disclosures has been filed against this document.=0A=
=0A=
This working group last call would normally end July 22, 2012, but=0A=
since we at that time are in the publication cut-off period prior to=0A=
the Vancouver meeting this wg last call ends when the cut-off is=0A=
lifted.=0A=
=0A=
/Loa=0A=
(for the wg co-chairs)=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
--=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com=0A=
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu=0A=
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13=0A=
                                              +46 767 72 92 13=0A=
=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
mpls mailing list=0A=
mpls@ietf.org=0A=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls=0A=

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From: "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:36:35 +0000
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References: <CC07758B.2A11F%skraza@cisco.com> <4FF96968.8000900@pi.nu>, <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE020115FD6F810A@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com>, <473DA00BC97EE04A9B4EE875F48CE5F102F5D0@xmb-rcd-x08.cisco.com>
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Subject: [mpls] FW: IPR poll on draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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=0A=
Hi Loa,=0A=
=0A=
I am unaware on any IPR too.=0A=
=0A=
Thanks,=0A=
=0A=
Sami=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: N.Leymann@telekom.de [N.Leymann@telekom.de]=0A=
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 3:31 AM=0A=
To: loa@pi.nu; Kamran Raza (skraza)=0A=
Cc: draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org=0A=
Subject: AW: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv=
=0A=
=0A=
Hi Loa,=0A=
=0A=
Sorry, I somehow missed the email. I'm not aware of any IPR which might app=
ly.=0A=
=0A=
  Best regards=0A=
=0A=
    Nic=0A=
=0A=
-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----=0A=
Von: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=0A=
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. Juli 2012 13:05=0A=
An: Kamran Raza=0A=
Cc: draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org=0A=
Betreff: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv=
=0A=
=0A=
Kamran,=0A=
=0A=
just now - unless I dropped some mails - I only have responses=0A=
from you and Luca on the IPR poll.=0A=
=0A=
Can you help me to get the others (Sam and Nic) to respond?=0A=
=0A=
/Loa=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
On 2012-06-20 18:41, Kamran Raza wrote:=0A=
> I am not aware of any IPR on this draft.=0A=
>=0A=
> Thx.=0A=
>=0A=
> On 12-06-20 12:40 PM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:=0A=
>=0A=
>> Working Group and authors;=0A=
>>=0A=
>> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv - is nearly ready to=0A=
>> be polled to see if we have support to make it a working group=0A=
>> document.=0A=
>>=0A=
>> Before the poll, we would like to check whether there is IPR on=0A=
>> the document that needs to be disclosed.=0A=
>>=0A=
>> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to=0A=
>> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv?=0A=
>>=0A=
>> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=0A=
>> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).=0A=
>>=0A=
>> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to=
=0A=
>> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant=0A=
>> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response=
=0A=
>> has been received from each author and contributor.=0A=
>>=0A=
>> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or=
=0A=
>> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any=
=0A=
>> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.=0A=
>>=0A=
>> Thanks, Loa=0A=
>> (as MPLS WG co-chair)=0A=
>=0A=
=0A=
--=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com=0A=
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu=0A=
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13=0A=
                                              +46 767 72 92 13=0A=
=0A=
=0A=

From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com  Wed Jul 11 08:36:54 2012
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com>, "swallow@cisco.com" <swallow@cisco.com>, "jdrake@juniper.net" <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:37:05 -0400
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Cc: Mishael Wexler <Mishael.Wexler@ecitele.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>, "pwe3	\(pwe3@ietf.org\)" <pwe3@ietf.org>, "tnadeau@juniper.net" <tnadeau@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Dear Sasha, et al.,
I think that one of differences between CC defined in RFC 5885 and RFC 6428=
 in introduction of independent mode to monitor associated bi-directional p=
2p connections. Then there's FSMs fo coordinated and independent modes, Fig=
.7 and Fig.8 in RFC 6428, that are different from FSM of RFC 5880. Then, IM=
HO, using G-ACh from RFC 6428 indicates possible use of RFC 6428-based CV w=
hile there's no CV for neither Control Channel 0x07.

    Regards,
        Greg

________________________________
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ale=
xander Vainshtein
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org=
); Rotem Cohen
Subject: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mes=
sage in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, =
it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw=
 BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types=
 have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, e=
specially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text =
in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over L=
SP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, sinc=
e it uses un-capitalized "may" and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If =
you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></HEAD>
<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D072492815-11072012></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2>Dear&nbsp;Sasha,&nbsp;et&nbsp;al.,</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D072492815-11072012></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><SPAN=20
class=3D072492815-11072012></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff>=
<FONT=20
size=3D2>I<SPAN class=3D072492815-11072012> think that one of differences b=
etween CC=20
defined in RFC 5885 and RFC 6428 in introduction of independent mode to mon=
itor=20
associated bi-directional p2p connections. Then there's FSMs fo coordinated=
 and=20
independent modes, Fig.7 and Fig.8 in RFC 6428, that are different from FSM=
 of=20
RFC 5880. Then, IMHO, using G-ACh from RFC 6428 indicates possible use of R=
FC=20
6428-based CV while there's no CV for neither Control Channel=20
0x07.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D072492815-11072012></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D072492815-11072012>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Regards,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D072492815-11072012>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Greg</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> mpls-bounces@ietf.org=20
[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Alexander=20
Vainshtein<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B> D=
avid=20
Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> mpls@ietf.org;=
=20
Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem=20
Cohen<BR><B>Subject:</B> [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type=20
for<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type f=
or the=20
MPLS-TP CC message in <A href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428">RFC=20
6428</A>.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Looking at both this RFC and <A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885">RFC 5885</A>, it seems that the=
 format=20
of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw BFD packet in VCCV is ex=
actly=20
the same. However, two different G-ACH types have been allocated by IANA fo=
r=20
these two cases.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create=20
interoperability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (u=
sing=20
GAL) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capab=
ility=20
to run BFD over LSP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the=20
confusion IMO, since it uses un-capitalized &#8220;may&#8221; and not one o=
f the IETF=20
reserved requirement level words.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428=
=20
(and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
,=20
phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.=20
</P></BODY></HTML>

--_000_FE60A4E52763E84B935532D7D9294FF137D71927CCEUSAACMS0715e_--

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From: <thomas.morin@orange.com>
To: "draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org" <draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:47:09 +0000
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Subject: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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From david.i.allan@ericsson.com  Wed Jul 11 09:07:07 2012
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From: David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "swallow@cisco.com" <swallow@cisco.com>, "jdrake@juniper.net" <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:07:26 -0400
Thread-Topic: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Hi Sasha:

The reason for this is the overall system behavior implied. A 5885 code poi=
nt is purely CC operation. A 6428 code point indicates that CV will be inte=
rleaved with the stream. We wanted to explicitly disambiguate this.

It further permits misbranching of a 5885 stream into a 6428 path to be det=
ected so the overall network is more robust. If the CC messages in both 588=
5 and 6428 had a common code point, this would not be possible, and CV oper=
ation would not be authoritative.

I hope this helps
Dave

________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf=
.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mes=
sage in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, =
it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw=
 BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types=
 have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, e=
specially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text =
in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over L=
SP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, sinc=
e it uses un-capitalized "may" and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If =
you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

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<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>Hi=20
Sasha:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>The=20
reason for this is the overall system behavior implied. A 5885 code point i=
s=20
purely CC operation. A 6428 code point indicates that CV will be interleave=
d=20
with the&nbsp;stream.&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#=
0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>We wanted to explicitly disambiguate=20
this.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>It=20
further permits misbranching of a 5885 stream into a 6428 path to be detect=
ed so=20
the overall network is more robust. If the CC messages in both 5885 and 642=
8 had=20
a common code point, this would not be possible, and CV operation would not=
 be=20
authoritative.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D359580316-11072012></SPAN><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>I hope=20
this helps</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial>Dave</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=3Dltr lang=3Den-us class=3DOutlookMessageHeader align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> Alexander Vainshtein=20
[mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July =
11,=20
2012 3:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B> David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com;=20
jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net;=20
mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael=20
Wexler<BR><B>Subject:</B> Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for=20
<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type f=
or the=20
MPLS-TP CC message in <A href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428">RFC=20
6428</A>.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Looking at both this RFC and <A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885">RFC 5885</A>, it seems that the=
 format=20
of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw BFD packet in VCCV is ex=
actly=20
the same. However, two different G-ACH types have been allocated by IANA fo=
r=20
these two cases.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create=20
interoperability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (u=
sing=20
GAL) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capab=
ility=20
to run BFD over LSP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the=20
confusion IMO, since it uses un-capitalized &#8220;may&#8221; and not one o=
f the IETF=20
reserved requirement level words.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428=
=20
(and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
,=20
phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.=20
</P></BODY></HTML>

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From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Jul 11 09:24:28 2012
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "david.i.allan@ericsson.com" <david.i.allan@ericsson.com>, "swallow@cisco.com" <swallow@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:24:01 -0700
Thread-Topic: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Mishael Wexler <Mishael.Wexler@ecitele.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "pwe3 \(pwe3@ietf.org\)" <pwe3@ietf.org>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Sasha,

The BFD packet format is the same for both CC and CV.  The  reason for havi=
ng two code points is to indicate to the receiver whether there is a traili=
ng source ID TLV, in which case the packet is to be used for CV rather than=
 CC.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: david.i.allan@ericsson.com; swallow@cisco.com; John E Drake
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; Thomas Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org);=
 Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mes=
sage in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, =
it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw=
 BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types=
 have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, e=
specially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text =
in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over L=
SP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, sinc=
e it uses un-capitalized "may" and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If =
you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'c=
olor:#1F497D'>Sasha,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'color:#1F497D'>The BFD packet format is the same for both CC and CV=
.&nbsp; The&nbsp; reason for having two code points is to indicate to the r=
eceiver whether there is a trailing source ID TLV, in which case the packet=
 is to be used for CV rather than CC.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1=
F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:so=
lid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;bo=
rder-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Fro=
m:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if"'> Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com] <br><b=
>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> david.i.allan@eri=
csson.com; swallow@cisco.com; John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> cpignata@cisco.com=
; Thomas Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew S=
ergeev; Mishael Wexler<br><b>Subject:</b> Doubts in allocation of a new G-A=
CH type for <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l>I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC m=
essage in <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428">RFC 6428</a>.<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Lo=
oking at both this RFC and <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885">R=
FC 5885</a>, it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the form=
at of the raw BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two differen=
t G-ACH types have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>IMHO and F=
WIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, especially =
with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text in Section=
 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over LSP with th=
e G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since it uses =
un-capitalized &#8220;may&#8221; and not one of the IETF reserved requireme=
nt level words.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (a=
nd/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p>This e-mail message is intended for the r=
ecipient only and contains information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may =
be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have received this transmission in er=
ror, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then delete the original=
 and all copies thereof. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>=

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From: "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 16:27:43 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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[Resending]
I am not aware of any IPR on the draft.

Thanks,

Sami
On Jun 20, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Loa Andersson wrote:

> Working Group and authors;
>=20
> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv - is nearly ready to
> be polled to see if we have support to make it a working group
> document.
>=20
> Before the poll, we would like to check whether there is IPR on
> the document that needs to be disclosed.
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>=20
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                            +46 767 72 92 13
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "david.i.allan@ericsson.com" <david.i.allan@ericsson.com>, "swallow@cisco.com" <swallow@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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John,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.



Unfortunately it does not address my question which referred to CC operation=
 only. It does not involve CV operation which indeed requires its own dedica=
ted G-ACh type.



But CC (and RDI) operation seems to be exactly the same in RFC 6428 and RFC=
 5885.



Or do I miss something?



Regards,

     Sasha

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:24 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein; david.i.allan@ericsson.com; swallow@cisco.com
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; Thomas Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org);=
 Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Sasha,

The BFD packet format is the same for both CC and CV.  The  reason for havin=
g two code points is to indicate to the receiver whether there is a trailing=
 source ID TLV, in which case the packet is to be used for CV rather than CC=
.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: david.i.allan@ericsson.com; swallow@cisco.com; John E Drake
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; Thomas Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org);=
 Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mess=
age in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, i=
t seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw B=
FD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types ha=
ve been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, es=
pecially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text in=
 Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over LSP=
 with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since i=
t uses un-capitalized =93may=94 and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


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>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Times New Roman;color: #000000;fon=
t-size: 12pt;">
<p>John,</p>
<p>Lots of thanks for a prompt response.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Unfortunately it does not address my question which referred to CC operat=
ion only. It does not involve CV operation which indeed requires its own ded=
icated G-ACh<a></a> type.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>But CC (and RDI) operation seems to be&nbsp;exactly the same in RFC 6428=
 and RFC 5885.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Or do I miss something?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px"=
>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF171092"><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein; david.i.allan@ericsson.com; swallow@cisco.c=
om<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cpignata@cisco.com; Thomas Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf=
.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for <br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Sasha,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">The BFD packet format=
 is the same for both CC and CV.&nbsp; The&nbsp; reason for having two code=
 points is to indicate to the receiver whether there is a trailing source ID=
 TLV, in which case the packet is to be used
 for CV rather than CC.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">John</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Sent from my iPhone</s=
pan></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PAD=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';=
 FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans=
-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein=
@ecitele.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> david.i.allan@ericsson.com; swallow@cisco.com; John E Drake<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cpignata@cisco.com; Thomas Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf=
.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type=
 for the MPLS-TP CC message in
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6428</a=
>.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Looking at both this RFC and <a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc5885" target=3D"_blank">
RFC 5885</a>, it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the form=
at of the raw BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different=
 G-ACH types have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create intero=
perability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GA=
L) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capabili=
ty to run BFD over LSP with the
 G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since it uses un=
-capitalized =93may=94 and not one of the IETF reserved requirement level wo=
rds.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 642=
8 (and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If=
 you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
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Thread-Topic: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Dave,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.



Unfortunately I have to say that it is confusing: interleave of CC and CV pa=
ckets on the same stream is achieved by using a different G-ACh type for CV=
 messages. This type discriminates between CC and CV messages equally well f=
or any of the two G-ACh types that potentially could be used for carrying CC=
 messages.



Do I miss something fundamental?



Regards,

     Sasha

________________________________
From: David Allan I [david.i.allan@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:07 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.=
org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi Sasha:

The reason for this is the overall system behavior implied. A 5885 code poin=
t is purely CC operation. A 6428 code point indicates that CV will be interl=
eaved with the stream. We wanted to explicitly disambiguate this.

It further permits misbranching of a 5885 stream into a 6428 path to be dete=
cted so the overall network is more robust. If the CC messages in both 5885=
 and 6428 had a common code point, this would not be possible, and CV operat=
ion would not be authoritative.

I hope this helps
Dave

________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.=
org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mess=
age in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, i=
t seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw B=
FD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types ha=
ve been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, es=
pecially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text in=
 Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over LSP=
 with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since i=
t uses un-capitalized =93may=94 and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
ion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If yo=
u have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phon=
e or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
ion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If yo=
u have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phon=
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--_000_F9336571731ADE42A5397FC831CEAA0209A391FRIDWPPMB001ecite_
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>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Times New Roman;color: #000000;fon=
t-size: 12pt;">
<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Lots of thanks for a prompt response.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Unfortunately I have to say that it is confusing: interleave of CC and CV=
 packets on the same stream is achieved by using a different G-ACh<a></a><a>=
</a> type for CV messages. This type discriminates between CC and CV message=
s equally well for any of the
 two G-ACh<a></a><a></a> types&nbsp;that<a></a> potentially could be used fo=
r carrying CC messages.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Do I miss&nbsp;something fundamental?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px"=
>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF247195"><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> David Allan I [david.i.allan@ericsson.=
com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe=
3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for <br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">Hi Sasha:</font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">The reason for this is the overall system behavior implied. A=
 5885 code point is purely CC operation. A 6428 code point indicates that CV=
 will be interleaved with the&nbsp;stream.&nbsp;<span class=3D"359580316-110=
72012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">We
 wanted to explicitly disambiguate this.</font></span></font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">It further permits misbranching of a 5885 stream into a 6428 p=
ath to be detected so the overall network is more robust. If the CC messages=
 in both 5885 and 6428 had a common code
 point, this would not be possible, and CV operation would not be authoritat=
ive.</font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"></span><span class=3D"359580316-1107=
2012"></span><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=
=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">I hope this helps</font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">Dave</font></span></div>
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" align=3D"left=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:A=
lexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe=
3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for <br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type=
 for the MPLS-TP CC message in
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6428</a=
>.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Looking at both this RFC and <a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc5885" target=3D"_blank">
RFC 5885</a>, it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the form=
at of the raw BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different=
 G-ACH types have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create intero=
perability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GA=
L) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capabili=
ty to run BFD over LSP with the
 G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since it uses un=
-capitalized =93may=94 and not one of the IETF reserved requirement level wo=
rds.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 642=
8 (and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If=
 you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete
 the original and all copies thereof. </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If=
 you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.
</p>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Hi Sasha:

cc list trimmed....

I'm sorry, I'm not quite grasping your point.

We need to know when CC will not have CV interleaved.
We need to know when CC will have CV interleaved.
We need to know when a CV TLV will be present.

Ergo 3 code points. Could you clarify your concern?
Dave

________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:18 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf=
.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for


Dave,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.



Unfortunately I have to say that it is confusing: interleave of CC and CV p=
ackets on the same stream is achieved by using a different G-ACh type for C=
V messages. This type discriminates between CC and CV messages equally well=
 for any of the two G-ACh types that potentially could be used for carrying=
 CC messages.



Do I miss something fundamental?



Regards,

     Sasha

________________________________
From: David Allan I [david.i.allan@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:07 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf=
.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi Sasha:

The reason for this is the overall system behavior implied. A 5885 code poi=
nt is purely CC operation. A 6428 code point indicates that CV will be inte=
rleaved with the stream. We wanted to explicitly disambiguate this.

It further permits misbranching of a 5885 stream into a 6428 path to be det=
ected so the overall network is more robust. If the CC messages in both 588=
5 and 6428 had a common code point, this would not be possible, and CV oper=
ation would not be authoritative.

I hope this helps
Dave

________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf=
.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mes=
sage in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, =
it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw=
 BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types=
 have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, e=
specially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text =
in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over L=
SP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, sinc=
e it uses un-capitalized "may" and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


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<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>Hi=20
Sasha:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>cc=20
list trimmed....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>I'm=20
sorry, I'm not quite grasping your point.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>We=20
need to know when CC will not have CV interleaved.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>We=20
need to know when CC will have CV interleaved. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>We=20
need to know when a CV TLV will be present.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>Ergo 3=20
code points. Could you clarify your concern?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial>Dave</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=3Dltr lang=3Den-us class=3DOutlookMessageHeader align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> Alexander Vainshtein=20
[mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July =
11,=20
2012 10:18 AM<BR><B>To:</B> David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com;=20
jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net;=20
mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael=20
Wexler<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for=
=20
<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT=
-SIZE: 12pt">
<P>Dave,</P>
<P>Lots of thanks for a prompt response.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Unfortunately I have to say that it is confusing: interleave of CC and C=
V=20
packets on the same stream is achieved by using a different G-ACh<A></A><A>=
</A>=20
type for CV messages. This type discriminates between CC and CV messages eq=
ually=20
well for any of the two G-ACh<A></A><A></A> types&nbsp;that<A></A> potentia=
lly=20
could be used for carrying CC messages.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Do I miss&nbsp;something fundamental?</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Regards,</P>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha&nbsp;</P>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>

<DIV style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3DdivRpF247195><FONT color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2=20
face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> David Allan I=20
[david.i.allan@ericsson.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:07=
=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Alexander Vainshtein; swallow@cisco.com;=20
jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net;=20
mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael=20
Wexler<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for=
=20
<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>Hi=20
Sasha:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>The=20
reason for this is the overall system behavior implied. A 5885 code point i=
s=20
purely CC operation. A 6428 code point indicates that CV will be interleave=
d=20
with the&nbsp;stream.&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#=
0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>We wanted to explicitly disambiguate=20
this.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>It=20
further permits misbranching of a 5885 stream into a 6428 path to be detect=
ed so=20
the overall network is more robust. If the CC messages in both 5885 and 642=
8 had=20
a common code point, this would not be possible, and CV operation would not=
 be=20
authoritative.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D359580316-11072012></SPAN><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>I hope=20
this helps</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial>Dave</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=3Dltr lang=3Den-us class=3DOutlookMessageHeader align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> Alexander Vainshtein=20
[mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July =
11,=20
2012 3:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B> David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com;=20
jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net;=20
mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael=20
Wexler<BR><B>Subject:</B> Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for=20
<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Hi all,</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type f=
or the=20
MPLS-TP CC message in <A href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428"=20
target=3D_blank>RFC 6428</A>.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Looking at both this RFC and <A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885" target=3D_blank>RFC 5885</A>, i=
t seems=20
that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw BFD pack=
et in=20
VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types have been allo=
cated=20
by IANA for these two cases.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create=20
interoperability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (u=
sing=20
GAL) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capab=
ility=20
to run BFD over LSP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the=20
confusion IMO, since it uses un-capitalized &#8220;may&#8221; and not one o=
f the IETF=20
reserved requirement level words.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428=
=20
(and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
,=20
phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.=20
</P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
,=20
phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.=20
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Greg,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.



Regarding your first point - ability to maintain independent BFD sessions fo=
r associated unidirectional LSPs: Do you imply that, as far as co-routed bid=
irectional LSPs are concerned, G-ACh Type =3D 7 is as good as G-ACh Type =3D=
 22?



As for ability to deduce from receiving something with G-ACh Type =3D 22 tha=
t you should be also reqdy to receive something with G-ACh Type =3D 23 (CV),=
 I do not think that this is explicitly specified anywhere. From my point of=
 view, ability to support CV MUST be explicitly synchronized between the LSP=
 endpoints (by configuration or signaling).



My 2c,

     Sasha

________________________________
From: Gregory Mirsky [gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:37 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.n=
et
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org)=
; Rotem Cohen
Subject: RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for


Dear Sasha, et al.,
I think that one of differences between CC defined in RFC 5885 and RFC 6428=
 in introduction of independent mode to monitor associated bi-directional p2=
p connections. Then there's FSMs fo coordinated and independent modes, Fig.7=
 and Fig.8 in RFC 6428, that are different from FSM of RFC 5880. Then, IMHO,=
 using G-ACh from RFC 6428 indicates possible use of RFC 6428-based CV while=
 there's no CV for neither Control Channel 0x07.

    Regards,
        Greg

________________________________
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alex=
ander Vainshtein
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org)=
; Rotem Cohen
Subject: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mess=
age in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, i=
t seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw B=
FD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types ha=
ve been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, es=
pecially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text in=
 Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over LSP=
 with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since i=
t uses un-capitalized =93may=94 and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
ion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If yo=
u have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phon=
e or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue" fPStyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0"=
>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Times New Roman;color: #000000;fon=
t-size: 12pt;">
<p>Greg, </p>
<p>Lots of thanks for a prompt response.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regarding your first point - ability to maintain independent BFD sessions=
 for associated unidirectional LSPs: Do you imply that, as far as co-routed=
 bidirectional LSPs are concerned, G-ACh<a></a> Type =3D 7 is as good as G-A=
Ch<a></a> Type =3D 22?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>As for ability to deduce from receiving something with G-ACh<a></a> Type=
 =3D 22 that you should be also&nbsp;reqdy<a></a> to receive something with=
 G-ACh<a></a> Type =3D 23 (CV), I do not think that this is explicitly speci=
fied anywhere. From my point of view, ability
 to support CV MUST be explicitly synchronized between the LSP endpoints (by=
 configuration or signaling).</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>My 2c,</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px"=
>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF626316"><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Gregory Mirsky [gregory.mirsky@ericsso=
n.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@ju=
niper.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ie=
tf.org); Rotem Cohen<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"A=
rial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"072492815-11072012"></span><font face=3D"Arial"><font co=
lor=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2">Dear&nbsp;Sasha,&nbsp;et&nbsp;al.,</font></=
font></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"&#43;0"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2"><span cl=
ass=3D"072492815-11072012"></span></font></font></font><span class=3D"072492=
815-11072012"></span><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=
=3D"2">I<span class=3D"072492815-11072012"> think that
 one of differences between CC defined in RFC 5885 and RFC 6428 in introduct=
ion of independent mode to monitor associated bi-directional p2p connections=
. Then there's FSMs fo coordinated and independent modes, Fig.7 and Fig.8 in=
 RFC 6428, that are different
 from FSM of RFC 5880. Then, IMHO, using G-ACh from RFC 6428 indicates possi=
ble use of RFC 6428-based CV while there's no CV for neither Control Channel=
 0x07.</span></font></font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2"><span cla=
ss=3D"072492815-11072012"></span></font></font></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2"><span cla=
ss=3D"072492815-11072012">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span></font></font></=
font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2"><span cla=
ss=3D"072492815-11072012">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</s=
pan></font></font></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" align=3D"left=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:=
mpls-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ie=
tf.org); Rotem Cohen<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type=
 for the MPLS-TP CC message in
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6428</a=
>.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Looking at both this RFC and <a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc5885" target=3D"_blank">
RFC 5885</a>, it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the form=
at of the raw BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different=
 G-ACH types have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create intero=
perability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GA=
L) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capabili=
ty to run BFD over LSP with the
 G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since it uses un=
-capitalized =93may=94 and not one of the IETF reserved requirement level wo=
rds.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 642=
8 (and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If=
 you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete
 the original and all copies thereof. </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If=
 you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Jul 11 11:32:42 2012
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "david.i.allan@ericsson.com" <david.i.allan@ericsson.com>, "swallow@cisco.com" <swallow@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:30:27 -0700
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Sasha,

Oopsie.

Doesn't RFC 5885  describe the use of BFD for pseudowire VCCV?   Other than=
 the independent mode that Greg mentioned,  RFC 6428 is just standard BFD b=
ut it is for an LSP rather than a pseudowire.  Or did I miss something 8->?

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:13 AM
To: John E Drake; david.i.allan@ericsson.com; swallow@cisco.com
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; Thomas Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org);=
 Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for


John,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.



Unfortunately it does not address my question which referred to CC operatio=
n only. It does not involve CV operation which indeed requires its own dedi=
cated G-ACh type.



But CC (and RDI) operation seems to be exactly the same in RFC 6428 and RFC=
 5885.



Or do I miss something?



Regards,

     Sasha

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:24 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein; david.i.allan@ericsson.com<mailto:david.i.allan@e=
ricsson.com>; swallow@cisco.com<mailto:swallow@cisco.com>
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>; Thomas Nadeau; mpls@ietf=
.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org<mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>); Rot=
em Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
Sasha,

The BFD packet format is the same for both CC and CV.  The  reason for havi=
ng two code points is to indicate to the receiver whether there is a traili=
ng source ID TLV, in which case the packet is to be used for CV rather than=
 CC.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: david.i.allan@ericsson.com<mailto:david.i.allan@ericsson.com>; swallow@=
cisco.com<mailto:swallow@cisco.com>; John E Drake
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>; Thomas Nadeau; mpls@ietf=
.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org<mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>); Rot=
em Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mes=
sage in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, =
it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw=
 BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types=
 have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, e=
specially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text =
in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over L=
SP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, sinc=
e it uses un-capitalized "may" and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If =
you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If =
you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'c=
olor:#1F497D'>Sasha,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'color:#1F497D'>Oopsie.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Doesn&#8217;t RFC 5885 &nbsp;describe the u=
se of BFD for pseudowire VCCV?&nbsp; &nbsp;Other than the independent mode =
that Greg mentioned, &nbsp;RFC 6428 is just standard BFD but it is for an L=
SP rather than a pseudowire.&nbsp; Or did I miss something 8-&gt;?<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D=
'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'co=
lor:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><di=
v><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.=
Vainshtein@ecitele.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:13 AM<=
br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; david.i.allan@ericsson.com; swallow@cisco.com<b=
r><b>Cc:</b> cpignata@cisco.com; Thomas Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@i=
etf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler<br><b>Subject:</b> RE=
: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for <o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p><span style=3D'colo=
r:black'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'color:black'>Lots of =
thanks for a prompt response.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'color:=
black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'color:black'>Unfortuna=
tely it does not address my question which referred to CC operation only. I=
t does not involve CV operation which indeed requires its own dedicated G-A=
Ch type.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'color:black'>But CC (and RDI) operation see=
ms to be&nbsp;exactly the same in RFC 6428 and RFC 5885.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span styl=
e=3D'color:black'>Or do I miss something?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span sty=
le=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'color:blac=
k'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"10=
0%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><div id=3DdivRpF171092><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> John E Drake [j=
drake@juniper.net]<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:24 PM<br><b>T=
o:</b> Alexander Vainshtein; <a href=3D"mailto:david.i.allan@ericsson.com">=
david.i.allan@ericsson.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:swallow@cisco.com">swallo=
w@cisco.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">cpignat=
a@cisco.com</a>; Thomas Nadeau; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.=
org</a>; pwe3 (<a href=3D"mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>); Rotem C=
ohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: Doubts in alloc=
ation of a new G-ACH type for </span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sasha,</span><sp=
an style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The BFD packet format is the same for both CC and =
CV.&nbsp; The&nbsp; reason for having two code points is to indicate to the=
 receiver whether there is a trailing source ID TLV, in which case the pack=
et is to be used for CV rather than CC.</span><span style=3D'color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>T=
hanks,</span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>John</span><span style=3D'color:=
black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:blac=
k'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'col=
or:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone</span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt=
;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid=
 #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:=
</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif=
";color:black'> Alexander Vainshtein [<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtei=
n@ecitele.com">mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b=
> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:david.i.=
allan@ericsson.com">david.i.allan@ericsson.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:swall=
ow@cisco.com">swallow@cisco.com</a>; John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"=
mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">cpignata@cisco.com</a>; Thomas Nadeau; <a href=
=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; pwe3 (<a href=3D"mailto:pwe3@i=
etf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler<br=
><b>Subject:</b> Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for </span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'color:black'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'color:black'>I have doubts regarding allocation of th=
e G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC message in <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org=
/html/rfc6428" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6428</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Looking at both this RFC and <a=
 href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885" target=3D"_blank">RFC 5885</a>=
, it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the r=
aw BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH typ=
es have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>IMHO and FWIW such duplica=
tion can only create interoperability problems, especially with progress of=
 the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 tha=
t refers to existing capability to run BFD over LSP with the G-ACh using Ch=
annel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since it uses un-capitalized &=
#8220;may&#8221; and not one of the IETF reserved requirement level words.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Cla=
rification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885) wo=
uld be highly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p><span style=3D'color:black'>This e-mail message is intended for t=
he recipient only and contains information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which =
may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have received this transmission i=
n error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then delete the orig=
inal and all copies thereof. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div>=
</div><p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contain=
s information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Tel=
ecom. If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by =
e-mail, phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof. =
<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 14:40:58 -0400
Thread-Topic: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Mishael Wexler <Mishael.Wexler@ecitele.com>, "pwe3 \(pwe3@ietf.org\)" <pwe3@ietf.org>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
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From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com  Wed Jul 11 17:04:05 2012
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:04:17 -0400
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Hi Sasha,
if one is interested only in CC monitoring on bi-directional p2p LSP in coo=
rdinated mode, then, IMHO, use PW-ACH ecapsulation is as good as MPLS-TP CC=
 code point.
In Section 3.3 of RFC 6428 I read (apologies for a lengthy quote):
  "CC and CV operations are simultaneously employed on a maintenance
   entity (ME) within a single BFD session.  The expected usage is that
   normal operation is to send CC BFD protocol data units (PDUs)
   interleaved with a CV BFD PDU (augmented with a Source MEP-ID and
   identified as requiring additional processing by the different ACh
   channel types)."
Yes, though there is no MUST or even CAN but I'd interpret it as SHOULD. At=
 the same time MPLS-TP CC ACh MAY be used, by mutual agreement between the =
end points, as CC only, without expectation of CV messages. AFAIK, http://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-08 supports exp=
licit CC and CC/CV configuration.

    Regards,
        Greg

________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:30 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org=
); Rotem Cohen
Subject: RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for


Greg,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.



Regarding your first point - ability to maintain independent BFD sessions f=
or associated unidirectional LSPs: Do you imply that, as far as co-routed b=
idirectional LSPs are concerned, G-ACh Type =3D 7 is as good as G-ACh Type =
=3D 22?



As for ability to deduce from receiving something with G-ACh Type =3D 22 th=
at you should be also reqdy to receive something with G-ACh Type =3D 23 (CV=
), I do not think that this is explicitly specified anywhere. From my point=
 of view, ability to support CV MUST be explicitly synchronized between the=
 LSP endpoints (by configuration or signaling).



My 2c,

     Sasha

________________________________
From: Gregory Mirsky [gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:37 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.=
net
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org=
); Rotem Cohen
Subject: RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for


Dear Sasha, et al.,
I think that one of differences between CC defined in RFC 5885 and RFC 6428=
 in introduction of independent mode to monitor associated bi-directional p=
2p connections. Then there's FSMs fo coordinated and independent modes, Fig=
.7 and Fig.8 in RFC 6428, that are different from FSM of RFC 5880. Then, IM=
HO, using G-ACh from RFC 6428 indicates possible use of RFC 6428-based CV w=
hile there's no CV for neither Control Channel 0x07.

    Regards,
        Greg

________________________________
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ale=
xander Vainshtein
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org=
); Rotem Cohen
Subject: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mes=
sage in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, =
it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw=
 BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types=
 have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, e=
specially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text =
in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over L=
SP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, sinc=
e it uses un-capitalized "may" and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If =
you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
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you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D631114823-11072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Sasha,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D631114823-11072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>if one is interested only in CC monitoring on=20
bi-directional p2p LSP in coordinated mode, then, IMHO, use PW-ACH ecapsula=
tion=20
is as good as MPLS-TP CC code point.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D631114823-11072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In Section 3.3 of RFC 6428 I read (apologies for a=
 lengthy=20
quote):</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D631114823-11072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp; "CC and CV operations are simultaneously em=
ployed on=20
a maintenance<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; entity (ME) within a single BFD session.&nbsp=
; The=20
expected usage is that<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; normal operation is to send CC BFD=20
protocol data units (PDUs)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; interleaved with a CV BFD PDU=20
(augmented with a Source MEP-ID and<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; identified as requiring=
=20
additional processing by the different ACh<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; channel types)."=
=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D631114823-11072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Yes, though there is no MUST or even CAN but I'd i=
nterpret=20
it as SHOULD. At the same time MPLS-TP CC ACh MAY be used, by mutual agreem=
ent=20
between the end points, as CC only, without expectation of CV messages. AFA=
IK,=20
<A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext=
-08">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-08=
</A>&nbsp;supports=20
explicit CC and CC/CV configuration.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D631114823-11072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D631114823-11072012>&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; <FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
class=3D631114823-11072012>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT=
=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Greg</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D631114823-11072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Alexa=
nder=20
Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wedne=
sday,=20
July 11, 2012 10:30 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Gregory Mirsky; David Allan I;=20
swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> mpls@ietf.org; Mishael=
=20
Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem=20
Cohen<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH typ=
e=20
for<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; DIRECTION: ltr; FONT-FAMILY: Time=
s New Roman">
<P>Greg, </P>
<P>Lots of thanks for a prompt response.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Regarding your first point - ability to maintain independent BFD session=
s for=20
associated unidirectional LSPs: Do you imply that, as far as co-routed=20
bidirectional LSPs are concerned, G-ACh<A></A> Type =3D 7 is as good as=20
G-ACh<A></A> Type =3D 22?</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>As for ability to deduce from receiving something with G-ACh<A></A> Type=
 =3D 22=20
that you should be also&nbsp;reqdy<A></A> to receive something with G-ACh<A=
></A>=20
Type =3D 23 (CV), I do not think that this is explicitly specified anywhere=
. From=20
my point of view, ability to support CV MUST be explicitly synchronized bet=
ween=20
the LSP endpoints (by configuration or signaling).</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>My 2c,</P>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</P>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman=
">
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>

<DIV id=3DdivRpF626316 style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr"><FONT face=3DTahoma color=
=3D#000000=20
size=3D2><B>From:</B> Gregory Mirsky [gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]<BR><B>Se=
nt:</B>=20
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:37 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Alexander Vainshtein; David =
Allan=20
I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> mpls@ietf.org; Misha=
el=20
Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem=20
Cohen<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH typ=
e=20
for<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D072492815-11072012></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2>Dear&nbsp;Sasha,&nbsp;et&nbsp;al.,</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D+0><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D072492815-11072012></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><SPAN=20
class=3D072492815-11072012></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff>=
<FONT=20
size=3D2>I<SPAN class=3D072492815-11072012> think that one of differences b=
etween CC=20
defined in RFC 5885 and RFC 6428 in introduction of independent mode to mon=
itor=20
associated bi-directional p2p connections. Then there's FSMs fo coordinated=
 and=20
independent modes, Fig.7 and Fig.8 in RFC 6428, that are different from FSM=
 of=20
RFC 5880. Then, IMHO, using G-ACh from RFC 6428 indicates possible use of R=
FC=20
6428-based CV while there's no CV for neither Control Channel=20
0x07.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D072492815-11072012></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D072492815-11072012>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Regards,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D072492815-11072012>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Greg</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> mpls-bounces@ietf.org=20
[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Alexander=20
Vainshtein<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B> D=
avid=20
Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> mpls@ietf.org;=
=20
Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem=20
Cohen<BR><B>Subject:</B> [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type=20
for<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Hi all,</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type f=
or the=20
MPLS-TP CC message in <A href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428"=20
target=3D_blank>RFC 6428</A>.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Looking at both this RFC and <A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885" target=3D_blank>RFC 5885</A>, i=
t seems=20
that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw BFD pack=
et in=20
VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types have been allo=
cated=20
by IANA for these two cases.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create=20
interoperability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (u=
sing=20
GAL) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capab=
ility=20
to run BFD over LSP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the=20
confusion IMO, since it uses un-capitalized &#8220;may&#8221; and not one o=
f the IETF=20
reserved requirement level words.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428=
=20
(and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
,=20
phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.=20
</P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
,=20
phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.=20
</P></BODY></HTML>

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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Greg,

Lots of thanks for a prompt and highly informative response!



Regards,

     Sasha

________________________________
From: Gregory Mirsky [gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:04 AM
To: Alexander Vainshtein
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen
Subject: RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi Sasha,
if one is interested only in CC monitoring on bi-directional p2p LSP in coor=
dinated mode, then, IMHO, use PW-ACH ecapsulation is as good as MPLS-TP CC c=
ode point.
In Section 3.3 of RFC 6428 I read (apologies for a lengthy quote):
  "CC and CV operations are simultaneously employed on a maintenance
   entity (ME) within a single BFD session.  The expected usage is that
   normal operation is to send CC BFD protocol data units (PDUs)
   interleaved with a CV BFD PDU (augmented with a Source MEP-ID and
   identified as requiring additional processing by the different ACh
   channel types)."
Yes, though there is no MUST or even CAN but I'd interpret it as SHOULD. At=
 the same time MPLS-TP CC ACh MAY be used, by mutual agreement between the e=
nd points, as CC only, without expectation of CV messages. AFAIK, http://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-08 supports explic=
it CC and CC/CV configuration.

    Regards,
        Greg

________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:30 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org)=
; Rotem Cohen
Subject: RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for


Greg,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.



Regarding your first point - ability to maintain independent BFD sessions fo=
r associated unidirectional LSPs: Do you imply that, as far as co-routed bid=
irectional LSPs are concerned, G-ACh Type =3D 7 is as good as G-ACh Type =3D=
 22?



As for ability to deduce from receiving something with G-ACh Type =3D 22 tha=
t you should be also reqdy to receive something with G-ACh Type =3D 23 (CV),=
 I do not think that this is explicitly specified anywhere. From my point of=
 view, ability to support CV MUST be explicitly synchronized between the LSP=
 endpoints (by configuration or signaling).



My 2c,

     Sasha

________________________________
From: Gregory Mirsky [gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:37 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.n=
et
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org)=
; Rotem Cohen
Subject: RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for


Dear Sasha, et al.,
I think that one of differences between CC defined in RFC 5885 and RFC 6428=
 in introduction of independent mode to monitor associated bi-directional p2=
p connections. Then there's FSMs fo coordinated and independent modes, Fig.7=
 and Fig.8 in RFC 6428, that are different from FSM of RFC 5880. Then, IMHO,=
 using G-ACh from RFC 6428 indicates possible use of RFC 6428-based CV while=
 there's no CV for neither Control Channel 0x07.

    Regards,
        Greg

________________________________
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alex=
ander Vainshtein
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org)=
; Rotem Cohen
Subject: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mess=
age in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, i=
t seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw B=
FD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types ha=
ve been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, es=
pecially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text in=
 Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over LSP=
 with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since i=
t uses un-capitalized =93may=94 and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
ion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If yo=
u have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phon=
e or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
ion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If yo=
u have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phon=
e or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
ion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If yo=
u have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phon=
e or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.


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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Times New Roman;color: #000000;fon=
t-size: 12pt;">
<p>Greg,</p>
<p>Lots of thanks for a prompt and highly informative response!</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px"=
>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF457494"><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Gregory Mirsky [gregory.mirsky@ericsso=
n.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"631114823-11072012"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Hi Sasha,</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"631114823-11072012"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">if one is interested only in CC mon=
itoring on bi-directional p2p LSP in coordinated mode, then, IMHO, use PW-AC=
H ecapsulation is as good as MPLS-TP CC code
 point.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"631114823-11072012"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">In Section 3.3 of RFC 6428 I read (=
apologies for a lengthy quote):</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"631114823-11072012"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">&nbsp; &quot;CC and CV operations a=
re simultaneously employed on a maintenance<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; entity (ME) within a single BFD session.&nbsp; The expected usa=
ge is that<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; normal operation is to send CC BFD protocol data units (PDUs)<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp; interleaved with a CV BFD PDU (augmented with a Source MEP-ID a=
nd<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; identified as requiring additional processing by the different=
 ACh<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; channel types).&quot; </font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"631114823-11072012"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Yes, though there is no MUST or eve=
n CAN but I'd interpret it as SHOULD. At the same time MPLS-TP CC ACh MAY be=
 used, by mutual agreement between the end
 points, as CC only, without expectation of CV messages. AFAIK, <a href=3D"h=
ttp://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-08" targe=
t=3D"_blank">
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-08</a>&n=
bsp;supports explicit CC and CC/CV configuration.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"631114823-11072012"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"631114823-11072012">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; <font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">
Regards,</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"631114823-11072012">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D=
"Arial">
Greg</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"631114823-11072012"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b=
> Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gregory Mirsky; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.=
net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ie=
tf.org); Rotem Cohen<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000;=
 FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<p>Greg, </p>
<p>Lots of thanks for a prompt response.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regarding your first point - ability to maintain independent BFD sessions=
 for associated unidirectional LSPs: Do you imply that, as far as co-routed=
 bidirectional LSPs are concerned, G-ACh<a></a> Type =3D 7 is as good as G-A=
Ch<a></a> Type =3D 22?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>As for ability to deduce from receiving something with G-ACh<a></a> Type=
 =3D 22 that you should be also&nbsp;reqdy<a></a> to receive something with=
 G-ACh<a></a> Type =3D 23 (CV), I do not think that this is explicitly speci=
fied anywhere. From my point of view, ability
 to support CV MUST be explicitly synchronized between the LSP endpoints (by=
 configuration or signaling).</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>My 2c,</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px"=
>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF626316"><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Gregory Mirsky [gregory.mirsky@ericsso=
n.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@ju=
niper.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ie=
tf.org); Rotem Cohen<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"A=
rial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"072492815-11072012"></span><font face=3D"Arial"><font co=
lor=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2">Dear&nbsp;Sasha,&nbsp;et&nbsp;al.,</font></=
font></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"&#43;0"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2"><span cl=
ass=3D"072492815-11072012"></span></font></font></font><span class=3D"072492=
815-11072012"></span><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=
=3D"2">I<span class=3D"072492815-11072012"> think that
 one of differences between CC defined in RFC 5885 and RFC 6428 in introduct=
ion of independent mode to monitor associated bi-directional p2p connections=
. Then there's FSMs fo coordinated and independent modes, Fig.7 and Fig.8 in=
 RFC 6428, that are different
 from FSM of RFC 5880. Then, IMHO, using G-ACh from RFC 6428 indicates possi=
ble use of RFC 6428-based CV while there's no CV for neither Control Channel=
 0x07.</span></font></font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2"><span cla=
ss=3D"072492815-11072012"></span></font></font></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2"><span cla=
ss=3D"072492815-11072012">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span></font></font></=
font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2"><span cla=
ss=3D"072492815-11072012">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</s=
pan></font></font></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" align=3D"left=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:=
mpls-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Mishael Wexler; tnadeau@juniper.net; pwe3 (pwe3@ie=
tf.org); Rotem Cohen<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type=
 for the MPLS-TP CC message in
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6428</a=
>.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Looking at both this RFC and <a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc5885" target=3D"_blank">
RFC 5885</a>, it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the form=
at of the raw BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different=
 G-ACH types have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create intero=
perability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GA=
L) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capabili=
ty to run BFD over LSP with the
 G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since it uses un=
-capitalized =93may=94 and not one of the IETF reserved requirement level wo=
rds.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 642=
8 (and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If=
 you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete
 the original and all copies thereof. </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If=
 you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete
 the original and all copies thereof. </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If=
 you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
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</p>
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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Dave,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response. My reading of this response is like fo=
llowing:

  1.  If you are only interested in CC but do not use CV functionality, use=
 G-ACH type =3D 7 (from RFC 5885).
  2.  If you are interested in CC and CV interleaved, use G-ACH type =3D 22=
 for CC and G-ACH type =3D 23 for CV.
  3.  If the session has been brought up using G-ACH type =3D 7, any receive=
d CV messages MUST be ignored.
  4.  If the session has been set up with G-ACH Type =3D 22 but no CV messag=
es have ever been received, no defect is detected and hence no consequent ac=
tion is taken.

Did I miss something?



If this reading is correct, how could it become common? As I see it, the cur=
rent situation creates ample opportunities for interoperability problems.



Regards,

     Sasha









________________________________
From: David Allan I [david.i.allan@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:21 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org)
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi Sasha:

cc list trimmed....

I'm sorry, I'm not quite grasping your point.

We need to know when CC will not have CV interleaved.
We need to know when CC will have CV interleaved.
We need to know when a CV TLV will be present.

Ergo 3 code points. Could you clarify your concern?
Dave

________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:18 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.=
org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for


Dave,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.



Unfortunately I have to say that it is confusing: interleave of CC and CV pa=
ckets on the same stream is achieved by using a different G-ACh type for CV=
 messages. This type discriminates between CC and CV messages equally well f=
or any of the two G-ACh types that potentially could be used for carrying CC=
 messages.



Do I miss something fundamental?



Regards,

     Sasha

________________________________
From: David Allan I [david.i.allan@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:07 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.=
org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi Sasha:

The reason for this is the overall system behavior implied. A 5885 code poin=
t is purely CC operation. A 6428 code point indicates that CV will be interl=
eaved with the stream. We wanted to explicitly disambiguate this.

It further permits misbranching of a 5885 stream into a 6428 path to be dete=
cted so the overall network is more robust. If the CC messages in both 5885=
 and 6428 had a common code point, this would not be possible, and CV operat=
ion would not be authoritative.

I hope this helps
Dave

________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.=
org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mess=
age in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, i=
t seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw B=
FD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types ha=
ve been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, es=
pecially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text in=
 Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over LSP=
 with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since i=
t uses un-capitalized =93may=94 and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
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u have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phon=
e or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
ion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If yo=
u have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phon=
e or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
ion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If yo=
u have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phon=
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t-size: 12pt;">
<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Lots of thanks for a prompt response. My reading of this response is like=
 following<a></a>:</p>
<ol>
<li>If you are only interested in CC but do not use CV functionality, use G-=
ACH type =3D 7 (from RFC 5885).
</li><li>If you are interested in CC and CV interleaved, use G-ACH type =3D=
 22 for CC and G-ACH type =3D 23 for CV.
</li><li>If the session has been brought up using G-ACH type =3D 7, any rece=
ived CV messages MUST be ignored.
</li><li>If the session has been set up with G-ACH Type =3D 22 but no CV mes=
sages have ever been received, no defect is detected and hence no consequent=
 action is taken.</li></ol>
<p>Did I miss something? </p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>If this reading is correct, how could it become common? As I see it, the=
 current situation creates ample opportunities for interoperability problems=
.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px"=
>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000;=
 FONT-SIZE: 16px" id=3D"divRpF777677">
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> David Allan=
 I [david.i.allan@ericsson.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for <br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px"=
></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px"=
>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">Hi Sasha:</font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">cc list trimmed....</font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">I'm sorry, I'm not quite grasping your point.</font></span></d=
iv>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">We need to know when CC will not have CV interleaved.</font></=
span></div>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">We need to know when CC will have CV interleaved.
</font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">We need to know when a CV TLV will be present.</font></span></=
div>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">Ergo 3 code points. Could you clarify your concern?</font></sp=
an></div>
<div><span class=3D"516551817-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">Dave</font></span></div>
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" align=3D"left=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:A=
lexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe=
3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for <br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000;=
 FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Lots of thanks for a prompt response.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Unfortunately I have to say that it is confusing: interleave of CC and CV=
 packets on the same stream is achieved by using a different G-ACh<a></a><a>=
</a> type for CV messages. This type discriminates between CC and CV message=
s equally well for any of the
 two G-ACh<a></a><a></a> types&nbsp;that<a></a> potentially could be used fo=
r carrying CC messages.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Do I miss&nbsp;something fundamental?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px"=
>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF247195"><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> David Allan I [david.i.allan@ericsson.=
com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe=
3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for <br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">Hi Sasha:</font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">The reason for this is the overall system behavior implied. A=
 5885 code point is purely CC operation. A 6428 code point indicates that CV=
 will be interleaved with the&nbsp;stream.&nbsp;<span class=3D"359580316-110=
72012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">We
 wanted to explicitly disambiguate this.</font></span></font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">It further permits misbranching of a 5885 stream into a 6428 p=
ath to be detected so the overall network is more robust. If the CC messages=
 in both 5885 and 6428 had a common code
 point, this would not be possible, and CV operation would not be authoritat=
ive.</font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"></span><span class=3D"359580316-1107=
2012"></span><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=
=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">I hope this helps</font></span></div>
<div><span class=3D"359580316-11072012"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">Dave</font></span></div>
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" align=3D"left=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:A=
lexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe=
3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for <br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type=
 for the MPLS-TP CC message in
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6428</a=
>.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Looking at both this RFC and <a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc5885" target=3D"_blank">
RFC 5885</a>, it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the form=
at of the raw BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different=
 G-ACH types have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create intero=
perability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GA=
L) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capabili=
ty to run BFD over LSP with the
 G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, since it uses un=
-capitalized =93may=94 and not one of the IETF reserved requirement level wo=
rds.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 642=
8 (and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If=
 you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
hone or fax, and then delete
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<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
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<p>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping
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I am not aware of any IPR associated with the draft.=A0 Thanks.=0A=0A=0A=0A=
Best regards,=0A=0ANing So=0AHead of Network Architecture=0AMobile Broadban=
d Services=0ATata Communications =0A(Cell) 972-955-0914
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>I am not a=
ware of any IPR associated with the draft.&nbsp; Thanks.<br></span></div><b=
r><div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-=
size: 12pt;"><div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, s=
erif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>Best regards,<br><br>Ning So<br>Head of Network=
 Architecture<br>Mobile Broadband Services<br>Tata Communications <br>(Cell=
) 972-955-0914<br><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>
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From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
To: "mnapierala@att.com" <mnapierala@att.com>, "'mpls@ietf.org'" <mpls@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:38:16 -0400
Thread-Topic: Poll for WG adoption for draft-napierala-mpls-targeted-mldp
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-napierala-mpls-targeted-mldp
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This poll has ended, and the document has been accepted as a working group =
document.

Unfortunately the deadline has passed for submitting -00 drafts prior to th=
e IETF. Therefore we will need to wait until the IETF starts to submit this=
 as a -00 draft.

Authors, please wait for the IETF meeting to start, then republish this doc=
ument as:
    draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp-00

Thanks, Ross
for the MPLS WG chairs

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ros=
s Callon
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:07 AM
To: 'mpls@ietf.org'
Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-napierala-mpls-targeted-mldp

Working Group,

This is to start a poll to see if there is support to adopt

   draft-napierala-mpls-targeted-mldp

as an mpls working group draft.

Pleased send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@iet=
f.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>).

Due to the upcoming July 4th holiday in the US the poll will be extended fo=
r an additional week (beyond the normal two week poll). This poll ends at t=
he end of the day July 11, 2012

Ross
for the mpls wg chairs



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nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This poll=
 has ended, and the document has been accepted as a working group document.=
 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Unfortunately the deadline has passed for s=
ubmitting -00 drafts prior to the IETF. Therefore we will need to wait unti=
l the IETF starts to submit this as a -00 draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
7D'>Authors, please wait for the IETF meeting to start, then republish this=
 document as: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp-00<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>Thanks, Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>for the MPLS=
 WG chairs</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid =
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> mpls-boun=
ces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ross Callon=
<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'mpls@ietf=
.org'<br><b>Subject:</b> [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-napierala-mp=
ls-targeted-mldp<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:Consolas'>Working Group,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>This is to start a poll to see if there is=
 support to adopt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Consolas'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;draft-napierala-mpls-targeted-mldp<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>as an mpls w=
orking group draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:Consolas'>Pleased send your comments to the mpls working group mailin=
g list (<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>).<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Due to the upcomin=
g July 4th holiday in the US the poll will be extended for an additional we=
ek (beyond the normal two week poll). This poll ends at the end of the day =
July 11, 2012<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas'>Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>for the mpls w=
g chairs</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10=
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ize:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>=

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From: David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:29:18 -0400
Thread-Topic: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "pwe3 \(pwe3@ietf.org\)" <pwe3@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for
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HI Sasha:

You are correct in noting that there is no representation in the RFC for re=
quiring any sort timer associated with CV PDU reception (it only discusses =
send interval), which means a non-compliant implementation sending CVs coul=
d operate undetected by an implementation that made no measurement at all o=
f reception of CVs and if it misbranched into a different LSP, would not be=
 detected.

Another LSP running CV leaking into the LSP served by the non-compliant imp=
lementation would still be detected.

Well spotted!
Dave



________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:59 PM
To: David Allan I
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org)
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for


Dave,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response. My reading of this response is like f=
ollowing:

 1.  If you are only interested in CC but do not use CV functionality, use =
G-ACH type =3D 7 (from RFC 5885).
 2.  If you are interested in CC and CV interleaved, use G-ACH type =3D 22 =
for CC and G-ACH type =3D 23 for CV.
 3.  If the session has been brought up using G-ACH type =3D 7, any receive=
d CV messages MUST be ignored.
 4.  If the session has been set up with G-ACH Type =3D 22 but no CV messag=
es have ever been received, no defect is detected and hence no consequent a=
ction is taken.

Did I miss something?



If this reading is correct, how could it become common? As I see it, the cu=
rrent situation creates ample opportunities for interoperability problems.



Regards,

     Sasha









________________________________
From: David Allan I [david.i.allan@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:21 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org)
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi Sasha:

cc list trimmed....

I'm sorry, I'm not quite grasping your point.

We need to know when CC will not have CV interleaved.
We need to know when CC will have CV interleaved.
We need to know when a CV TLV will be present.

Ergo 3 code points. Could you clarify your concern?
Dave

________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:18 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf=
.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for


Dave,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.



Unfortunately I have to say that it is confusing: interleave of CC and CV p=
ackets on the same stream is achieved by using a different G-ACh type for C=
V messages. This type discriminates between CC and CV messages equally well=
 for any of the two G-ACh types that potentially could be used for carrying=
 CC messages.



Do I miss something fundamental?



Regards,

     Sasha

________________________________
From: David Allan I [david.i.allan@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:07 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf=
.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi Sasha:

The reason for this is the overall system behavior implied. A 5885 code poi=
nt is purely CC operation. A 6428 code point indicates that CV will be inte=
rleaved with the stream. We wanted to explicitly disambiguate this.

It further permits misbranching of a 5885 stream into a 6428 path to be det=
ected so the overall network is more robust. If the CC messages in both 588=
5 and 6428 had a common code point, this would not be possible, and CV oper=
ation would not be authoritative.

I hope this helps
Dave

________________________________
From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 AM
To: David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net
Cc: cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net; mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf=
.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael Wexler
Subject: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for

Hi all,
I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type for the MPLS-TP CC mes=
sage in RFC 6428<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428>.

Looking at both this RFC and RFC 5885<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885>, =
it seems that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw=
 BFD packet in VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types=
 have been allocated by IANA for these two cases.

IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create interoperability problems, e=
specially with progress of the new VCCV Type (using GAL) for PWs. The text =
in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capability to run BFD over L=
SP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the confusion IMO, sinc=
e it uses un-capitalized "may" and not one of the IETF reserved requirement=
 level words.

Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428 (and/or of RFC 5885)=
 would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
     Sasha


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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue ocsi=3D"0" fPStyle=3D"1">
<DIV><SPAN class=3D356142217-12072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>HI=20
Sasha:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D356142217-12072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D356142217-12072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>You=20
are correct in noting that there is no representation in the RFC for requir=
ing=20
any sort&nbsp;timer associated with CV PDU reception (it only discusses sen=
d=20
interval), which means a non-compliant&nbsp;implementation sending CVs=20
could&nbsp;operate undetected by an implementation that made no measurement=
 at=20
all of reception of CVs and if it misbranched into a different LSP, would n=
ot be=20
detected. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D356142217-12072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D356142217-12072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial>Another LSP running CV leaking into the LSP served by the=20
non-compliant implementation would still be detected.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D356142217-12072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D356142217-12072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>Well=20
spotted!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D356142217-12072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial>Dave</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D356142217-12072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D356142217-12072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=3Dltr lang=3Den-us class=3DOutlookMessageHeader align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> Alexander Vainshtein=20
[mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July =
11,=20
2012 9:59 PM<BR><B>To:</B> David Allan I<BR><B>Cc:</B> mpls@ietf.org; pwe3=
=20
(pwe3@ietf.org)<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH =
type=20
for <BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT=
-SIZE: 12pt">
<P>Dave,</P>
<P>Lots of thanks for a prompt response. My reading of this response is lik=
e=20
following<A></A>:</P>
<OL>
  <LI>If you are only interested in CC but do not use CV functionality, use=
=20
  G-ACH type =3D 7 (from RFC 5885).=20
  <LI>If you are interested in CC and CV interleaved, use G-ACH type =3D 22=
 for CC=20
  and G-ACH type =3D 23 for CV.=20
  <LI>If the session has been brought up using G-ACH type =3D 7, any receiv=
ed CV=20
  messages MUST be ignored.=20
  <LI>If the session has been set up with G-ACH Type =3D 22 but no CV messa=
ges=20
  have ever been received, no defect is detected and hence no consequent ac=
tion=20
  is taken.</LI></OL>
<P>Did I miss something? </P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>If this reading is correct, how could it become common? As I see it, the=
=20
current situation creates ample opportunities for interoperability problems=
.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Regards,</P>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT=
-SIZE: 16px"=20
id=3DdivRpF777677><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B>=
 David Allan=20
I [david.i.allan@ericsson.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:2=
1=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Alexander Vainshtein<BR><B>Cc:</B> mpls@ietf.org; pwe3=20
(pwe3@ietf.org)<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH =
type=20
for <BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px"></D=
IV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>Hi=20
Sasha:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>cc=20
list trimmed....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>I'm=20
sorry, I'm not quite grasping your point.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>We=20
need to know when CC will not have CV interleaved.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>We=20
need to know when CC will have CV interleaved. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>We=20
need to know when a CV TLV will be present.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>Ergo 3=20
code points. Could you clarify your concern?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D516551817-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial>Dave</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=3Dltr lang=3Den-us class=3DOutlookMessageHeader align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> Alexander Vainshtein=20
[mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July =
11,=20
2012 10:18 AM<BR><B>To:</B> David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com;=20
jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net;=20
mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael=20
Wexler<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for=
=20
<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT=
-SIZE: 12pt">
<P>Dave,</P>
<P>Lots of thanks for a prompt response.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Unfortunately I have to say that it is confusing: interleave of CC and C=
V=20
packets on the same stream is achieved by using a different G-ACh<A></A><A>=
</A>=20
type for CV messages. This type discriminates between CC and CV messages eq=
ually=20
well for any of the two G-ACh<A></A><A></A> types&nbsp;that<A></A> potentia=
lly=20
could be used for carrying CC messages.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Do I miss&nbsp;something fundamental?</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Regards,</P>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha&nbsp;</P>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>

<DIV style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3DdivRpF247195><FONT color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2=20
face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> David Allan I=20
[david.i.allan@ericsson.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:07=
=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Alexander Vainshtein; swallow@cisco.com;=20
jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net;=20
mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael=20
Wexler<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for=
=20
<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>Hi=20
Sasha:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>The=20
reason for this is the overall system behavior implied. A 5885 code point i=
s=20
purely CC operation. A 6428 code point indicates that CV will be interleave=
d=20
with the&nbsp;stream.&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#=
0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>We wanted to explicitly disambiguate=20
this.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>It=20
further permits misbranching of a 5885 stream into a 6428 path to be detect=
ed so=20
the overall network is more robust. If the CC messages in both 5885 and 642=
8 had=20
a common code point, this would not be possible, and CV operation would not=
 be=20
authoritative.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D359580316-11072012></SPAN><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>I hope=20
this helps</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359580316-11072012><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
face=3DArial>Dave</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=3Dltr lang=3Den-us class=3DOutlookMessageHeader align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> Alexander Vainshtein=20
[mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July =
11,=20
2012 3:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B> David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com;=20
jdrake@juniper.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> cpignata@cisco.com; tnadeau@juniper.net;=20
mpls@ietf.org; pwe3 (pwe3@ietf.org); Rotem Cohen; Andrew Sergeev; Mishael=20
Wexler<BR><B>Subject:</B> Doubts in allocation of a new G-ACH type for=20
<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Hi all,</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>I have doubts regarding allocation of the G-ACH type f=
or the=20
MPLS-TP CC message in <A href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6428"=20
target=3D_blank>RFC 6428</A>.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Looking at both this RFC and <A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5885" target=3D_blank>RFC 5885</A>, i=
t seems=20
that the format of the MPLS-TP CC packet and the format of the raw BFD pack=
et in=20
VCCV is exactly the same. However, two different G-ACH types have been allo=
cated=20
by IANA for these two cases.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>IMHO and FWIW such duplication can only create=20
interoperability problems, especially with progress of the new VCCV Type (u=
sing=20
GAL) for PWs. The text in Section 3.1 of 6428 that refers to existing capab=
ility=20
to run BFD over LSP with the G-ACh using Channel Type 7 only adds to the=20
confusion IMO, since it uses un-capitalized &#8220;may&#8221; and not one o=
f the IETF=20
reserved requirement level words.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Clarification of intentions by the editors of RFC 6428=
=20
(and/or of RFC 5885) would be highly appreciated.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sasha</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
,=20
phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.=20
</P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
,=20
phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.=20
</P></DIV></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
,=20
phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.=20
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From loa@pi.nu  Fri Jul 13 02:54:39 2012
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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 11:55:12 +0200
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Subject: [mpls] Request for publication of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-use-cases-and-design-02.txt as an Informational RFC
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IESG,

the MPLS working group requests that
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-use-cases-and-design-02.txt is published
as an informational RFC.

Please find the shepherd write-up included.

/Loa
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


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To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 09:27:46 -0400
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To: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" <eosborne@cisco.com>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-xu-mpls-in-udp-02.txt
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Just to add to Eric's second point, in 2012, are there ANY core
routers that cannot forward MPLS packets natively?

Cheers,
Andy

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Eric Osborne (eosborne)
<eosborne@cisco.com> wrote:
> It looks like this draft is trying to bring the entropy label concept to =
GRE.  Two comments, perhaps opposing one another:
>
>
> 1) This really isn't an MPLS thing, it's a GRE thing.  If you really have=
 a GRE problem to solve, do it regardless of payload.
>
> 2) I do not think this is a good idea for MPLS.  Every time we try to sol=
ve the same problem more than one way we always end up fragmented.  If you =
want to do MPLS, do MPLS; if you don't or can't, then don't.
>
>
>
> eric
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>> Xuxiaohu
>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:30 AM
>> To: mpls@ietf.org
>> Subject: [mpls] fwd: New Version Notification for draft-xu-mpls-in-udp-
>> 02.txt
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Equal Cost Multi-Path (ECMP) and Link Aggregation Group (LAG) are widely
>> used in the core of IP-enabled Packet Switch Networks (PSN) for load-
>> balancing purposes. Most core routers (i.e., P routers) in the IP-enable=
d PSN
>> are capable of load-balancing IP traffic flows across ECMP paths and/or =
LAG
>> based on the hash of the five-tuple of UDP/TCP packets (i.e., source IP
>> address, destination IP address, source port, destination port, and prot=
ocol)
>> or some fields in the IP header of non-UDP/TCP packets (e.g., source IP
>> address, destination IP address). However, with existing IP-based
>> encapsulation methods as defined in [RFC4023] (e.g., MPLS-in-IP and MPLS=
-
>> in-GRE), distinct customer traffic flows of various MPLS applications (e=
.g.,
>> MPLS-based L2VPN or L3VPN) between a given PE pair would be
>> encapsulated with the same IP or GRE tunnel header prior to traversing t=
he
>> IP core. Since the encapsulating traffic is neither TCP nor UDP traffic,=
 core
>> routers could only perform hash calculation on the fields in the IP head=
er of
>> IP or GRE tunnels. As a result, core routers could not achieve an effect=
ive
>> load-balancing for these traffic flows in the network due to the lack of
>> adequate entropy information.
>>
>> [RFC5640] describes a method for improving the load-balancing in Softwir=
e
>> mesh networks [RFC5565]. However, this method requires core routers to b=
e
>> able to perform hash calculation on the fields including the "load-balan=
cing"
>> field contained in the L2TPv3 or GRE tunnel header. [Entropy-Label] prop=
oses
>> to use the =A1=B0entropy labels=A1=B1 for achieving a better load-balanc=
ing for MPLS
>> traffic flows in the core of MPLS-enabled PSN. Although the entropy labe=
l
>> could be inserted in the =A1=B0Key=A1=B1 field of the GRE header by ingr=
ess PE routers
>> in the case where the PSN is IP enabled rather than MPLS enabled, it sti=
ll
>> requires core routers to be capable of performing hash calculation on th=
e
>> =A1=B0entropy label=A1=B1 contained in the GRE tunnel header. Any of the=
 above load-
>> balancing methods requires a change to the date plane of core routers.
>>
>> This document describes a new IP-based encapsulation method for MPLS
>> packets referred to as MPLS-in-UDP, which is intended to facilitate load=
-
>> balancing the traffic of various MPLS applications such as MPLS-based L2=
VPN
>> and L3VPN in the core of IP-enabled packet switch networks where the cor=
e
>> routers could not be upgraded due to some reason.
>>
>> Any comments are welcome.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Xiaohu
>>
>> > -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
>> > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@i=
etf.org]
>> > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2012=C4=EA7=D4=C213=C8=D5 17:18
>> > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xuxiaohu
>> > =B3=AD=CB=CD: fanyb@gsta.com; nsheth@juniper.net; Lucy yong;
>> > marshall.eubanks@gmail.com; Lizhenbin
>> > =D6=F7=CC=E2: New Version Notification for draft-xu-mpls-in-udp-02.txt
>> >
>> >
>> > A new version of I-D, draft-xu-mpls-in-udp-02.txt has been
>> > successfully submitted by Xiaohu Xu and posted to the IETF repository.
>> >
>> > Filename:    draft-xu-mpls-in-udp
>> > Revision:    02
>> > Title:               Encapsulating MPLS in UDP
>> > Creation date:       2012-07-13
>> > WG ID:               Individual Submission
>> > Number of pages: 8
>> > URL:
>> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-mpls-in-udp-02.txt
>> > Status:          http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-mpls-in-udp
>> > Htmlized:        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-mpls-in-udp-02
>> > Diff:            http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-xu-mpls-in=
-udp-02
>> >
>> > Abstract:
>> >    This document specifies one additional IP-based encapsulation
>> >    technology for MPLS packets referred to as MPLS-in-UDP, which is
>> >    intended to facilitate load-balancing the traffic of various MPLS
>> >    applications such as MPLS-based L2VPN and L3VPN in the core of IP-
>> >    enabled packet switch networks.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The IETF Secretariat
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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From: Dan Frost <danfrost@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
In-Reply-To: <4F994864.50604@pi.nu> (Loa Andersson's message of "Thu, 26 Apr 2012 15:06:44 +0200")
References: <4F994864.50604@pi.nu>
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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 15:33:33 +0100
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR's on draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv and/or draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing
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No IPR I'm aware of.

Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> writes:
> Working Group,
>
>
> The wg chairs prepares two drafts
>
> - draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv; and
> - draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing
>
> for WG last call.
>
> Before the wg last, we would like to check whether
> there is IPR on the documents that needs to be disclosed.
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to the two drafts?
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR
> rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thanks, Loa
>
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)

From nsheth@juniper.net  Fri Jul 13 18:08:20 2012
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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:06:41 -0700
From: Nischal Sheth <nsheth@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-xu-mpls-in-udp-02.txt
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On 7/13/2012 6:27 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:

> Just to add to Eric's second point, in 2012, are there ANY core
> routers that cannot forward MPLS packets natively?

Hi Andy,

The applicability of MPLS-in-UDP is the same as that for MPLS-in-GRE,
with the difference that you would get better load balancing behavior
in the IP network if using UDP based encapsulation.

Consider the case of a cell site router that needs to back haul an
ethernet port to a hub/concentrator using a LDP-based PW. When the
intervening aggregation network does not support MPLS natively, one
could use MPLS-in-UDP.

This encapsulation would also be useful in data center deployments,
where the switching infrastructure is IP-only in many cases. Please
see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-marques-l3vpn-end-system for
one possible use case.

-Nischal


From jakarthi@cisco.com  Fri Jul 13 18:54:38 2012
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From: "Jay Karthik (jakarthi)" <jakarthi@cisco.com>
To: "gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Last Call: <draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-09.txt> (Methodology for benchmarking MPLS protection mechanisms) to Informational RFC
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--_000_CC26461110247jakarthiciscocom_
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Greg,

First of all, apologies in getting back to you this late. Even though we in=
corporated your comments in the most recent version (-10, published on 5/29=
), a formal response to your comments should have been made sooner.

Please see inline marked (JK) for the specific response to your comments.

Thanks for your thorough review.

Best,
Jay

I'm concerned with the very title of the document, Methodology for benchmar=
king MPLS protection mechanisms, even though only MPLS-TE FRR being conside=
red while LSP end-to-end and segment protection implicitly being kept out o=
f the scope.

JK: Modified the title to be more explicit in the most recent version poste=
d.

I've found several textual inaccuracies related to both MPLS and BFD to mak=
e me wonder if the document was liasioned to MPLS WG.
List of acronyms is missing - PLR, OIR, LOS, AIS, etc.

JK: PLR is defined in Term RFC 6414 that we are referencing. OIR Is mention=
ed in Appendix B. Other acronyms such as AIS and LOS are added in rev 10.

Introduction. I think that for "planned link or node failure" MBB is more e=
fficient and useful than FRR. But MBB is not being mentioned in the documen=
t.

JK: We have used the term Revision which implies MBB

Introduction. "A correlated failure is the simultaneous occurrence of two o=
r more failures." Personally, as correlated events I consider events with c=
ause-effect relationship.
Introduction. Path restoration after FRR discussion does not appear logical=
, in the scope of benchmarking document.

JK: We have modified section 5.6

Document Scope. "Protection from Bi-directional Forwarding Detection (BFD) =
is outside the scope of this document." I frankly couldn't decode this sent=
ense.

JK: Addressed in rev 10

Document Scope. Several references to Path Restoration as Re-optimization -=
 doubt that it belongs in the document at all.

JK: Section 5.6 adds more color to this discussion

Sections 6.1.1 through 6.2.4 - what is relevance of listing numbers of labe=
ls in the stack?

JK: Convergence, performance may be dependent on the label stack depth.

Peerformance of control plane should be outside of the scope of benchmarkin=
g as it is end-to-end metrics, not explicitly of DUT.

JK: Scope modified

--_000_CC26461110247jakarthiciscocom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-ser=
if; ">
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); ">
Greg,</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); ">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); ">
First of all, apologies in getting back to you this late. Even though we in=
corporated your comments in the most recent version (-10, published on 5/29=
), a formal response to your comments should have been made sooner.&nbsp;</=
div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); ">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); ">
Please see inline marked (JK) for the specific response to your comments.</=
div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); ">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); ">
Thanks for your thorough review.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); ">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); ">
Best,</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); ">
Jay</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space; ">
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div><font><font><br>
I'm concerned with the very title of the document, Methodology for benchmar=
king MPLS protection mechanisms, even though only MPLS-TE FRR being conside=
red while LSP end-to-end and segment protection implicitly being kept out o=
f the scope.<br>
</font></font></div>
</div>
</span></div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">JK: Modified the title to be more expl=
icit in the most recent version posted.</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space; ">
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#ff0000"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
</span><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div>
<div>I've found several textual inaccuracies related to both MPLS and BFD t=
o make me wonder if the document was liasioned to MPLS WG.<br>
List of acronyms is missing - PLR, OIR, LOS, AIS, etc.<br>
<br>
<font color=3D"#FF0000" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">JK: PLR is defined =
in Term RFC 6414 that we are referencing. OIR Is mentioned in Appendix B. O=
ther acronyms such as AIS and LOS are added in rev 10.<br>
</font><br>
Introduction. I think that for &quot;planned link or node failure&quot; MBB=
 is more efficient and useful than FRR. But MBB is not being mentioned in t=
he document.<br>
<br>
<font>JK: We have used the term Revision which implies MBB</font><br>
<br>
Introduction. &quot;A correlated failure is the simultaneous occurrence of =
two or more failures.&quot; Personally, as correlated events I consider eve=
nts with cause-effect relationship.<br>
<font color=3D"#FF0000" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "></font>Introduction=
. Path restoration after FRR discussion does not appear logical, in the sco=
pe of benchmarking document.<br>
<br>
JK: We have modified section 5.6<font><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" colo=
r=3D"#ff0000"><br>
</font></font><font style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
Document Scope. &quot;Protection from Bi-directional Forwarding Detection (=
BFD) is outside the scope of this document.&quot; I frankly couldn't decode=
 this sentense.<br>
</font></div>
</div>
</span></div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">JK: Addressed in rev 10</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space; ">
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div><font><font><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#ff0000"><br>
</font>Document Scope. Several references to Path Restoration as Re-optimiz=
ation - doubt that it belongs in the document at all.<br>
<br>
<font color=3D"#FF0000" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">JK: Section 5.6 add=
s more color to this discussion<br>
</font><br>
Sections 6.1.1 through 6.2.4 - what is relevance of listing numbers of labe=
ls in the stack?<br>
<br>
<font color=3D"#FF0000" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">JK: Convergence, pe=
rformance may be dependent on the label stack depth.
<br>
</font><br>
Peerformance of control plane should be outside of the scope of benchmarkin=
g as it is end-to-end metrics, not explicitly of DUT.<br>
<br>
<font color=3D"#FF0000" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">JK: Scope modified<=
br>
</font></font></font></div>
</div>
</span></div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CC26461110247jakarthiciscocom_--

From agmalis@gmail.com  Sat Jul 14 06:28:13 2012
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 09:28:31 -0400
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-xu-mpls-in-udp-02.txt
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Nischal,

Thanks, I'm aware of draft-marques, but draft-xu is explicitly focused
on core applications (or so it says, many times), so I didn't see data
center as a use case. I suggest that draft-xu be updated if it is also
intended for non-core applications, such as data center, mobile
backhaul, and/or aggregation networks. A sentence will do.

Cheers,
Andy

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Nischal Sheth <nsheth@juniper.net> wrote:
> On 7/13/2012 6:27 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>
>> Just to add to Eric's second point, in 2012, are there ANY core
>> routers that cannot forward MPLS packets natively?
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> The applicability of MPLS-in-UDP is the same as that for MPLS-in-GRE,
> with the difference that you would get better load balancing behavior
> in the IP network if using UDP based encapsulation.
>
> Consider the case of a cell site router that needs to back haul an
> ethernet port to a hub/concentrator using a LDP-based PW. When the
> intervening aggregation network does not support MPLS natively, one
> could use MPLS-in-UDP.
>
> This encapsulation would also be useful in data center deployments,
> where the switching infrastructure is IP-only in many cases. Please
> see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-marques-l3vpn-end-system for
> one possible use case.
>
> -Nischal
>

From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Sat Jul 14 14:32:36 2012
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro=
up of the IETF.

	Title           : MPLS-TP Security Framework
	Author(s)       : Luyuan Fang
                          Ben Niven-Jenkins
                          Scott Mansfield
                          Richard F. Graveman
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework-04.txt
	Pages           : 25
	Date            : 2012-07-14

Abstract:
   This document provides a security framework for Multiprotocol Label
Switching Transport Profile (MPLS-TP).  MPLS-TP extends MPLS
technologies and introduces new OAM capabilities, a transport-
oriented path protection mechanism, and strong emphasis on static
provisioning supported by network management systems.  This document
addresses the security aspects relevant in the context of
MPLS-TP specifically.  It describes potential security threats,
security requirements for MPLS-TP, and mitigation procedures for
MPLS-TP networks and MPLS-TP interconnection to other MPLS and GMPLS
networks.

   This document is a product of a joint Internet Engineering Task Force
(IETF) / International Telecommunication Union Telecommunication
Standardization Sector (ITU-T) effort to include an MPLS Transport
Profile within the IETF MPLS and PWE3 architectures to support the
capabilities and functionalities of a packet transport network.

   This Informational Internet-Draft is aimed at achieving IETF
Consensus before publication as an RFC and will be subject to an IETF
Last Call.

   [RFC Editor, please remove this note before publication as an RFC and
insert the correct Streams Boilerplate to indicate that the published
RFC has IETF Consensus.]


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework-04

A diff from previous version is available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework-=
04


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From loa@pi.nu  Sun Jul 15 03:00:34 2012
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Subject: [mpls] WG last call: draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv and draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing
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Working Group,

this is to start a working group last call on

draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv-02
and
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing-01

Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
(mpls@ietf.org).

Normally this working group last call would last for two weeks, but
since we are going in the the cut-off period prior to the Vancouver
meeting, this wg last call ends when the cut-off is lifted during
the IETF week.

/Loa
(as wg co-chair)

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


From loa@pi.nu  Sun Jul 15 05:30:58 2012
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All,

I managed to mistype some of the mail-aliases, please use this mail
to respond.

/Loa

On 2012-07-15 12:01, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> this is to start a working group last call on
>
> draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv-02
> and
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing-01
>
> Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
> (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> Normally this working group last call would last for two weeks, but
> since we are going in the the cut-off period prior to the Vancouver
> meeting, this wg last call ends when the cut-off is lifted during
> the IETF week.
>
> /Loa
> (as wg co-chair)
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13



From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Sun Jul 15 12:10:10 2012
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-dod-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro=
up of the IETF.

	Title           : LDP Downstream-on-Demand in Seamless MPLS
	Author(s)       : Thomas Beckhaus
                          Bruno Decraene
                          Kishore Tiruveedhula
                          Maciek Konstantynowicz
                          Luca Martini
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-dod-02.txt
	Pages           : 33
	Date            : 2012-07-15

Abstract:
   Seamless MPLS design enables a single IP/MPLS network to scale over
   core, metro and access parts of a large packet network infrastructure
   using standardized IP/MPLS protocols.  One of the key goals of
   Seamless MPLS is to meet requirements specific to access, including
   high number of devices, their position in network topology and their
   compute and memory constraints that limit the amount of state access
   devices can hold.This can be achieved with LDP Downstream-on-Demand
   (LDP DoD) label advertisement.  This document describes LDP DoD use
   cases and lists required LDP DoD procedures in the context of
   Seamless MPLS design.

   In addition, a new optional TLV type in the LDP label request message
   is defined for fast-up convergence.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-dod

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-dod-02

A diff from previous version is available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-ldp-dod-02


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Subject: [mpls] draft-li-mpls-ldp-mt-mib-03
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<DIV><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>hi, guys</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3DFoxDiv20120716102215605175>
<DIV style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 2em">we propose mpls multiple topology MIB draf=
t. the=20
link is as below=A3=BA</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 2em">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 2em"><A=20
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-mpls-ldp-mt-mib/">http://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-mpls-ldp-mt-mib/</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Any comments and suggestions are <FONT=20
color=3D#000000>welcome</FONT><SPAN>.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 2em"><SPAN><SPAN><FONT=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =CB=CE=CC=E5; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><ST=
RONG=20
style=3D"COLOR: #000000">Detail:</STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: #000000">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV><SPAN>
  <DIV>A new version of I-D, draft-li-mpls-ldp-mt-mib-03.txt</DIV>
  <DIV>has been successfully submitted by Emily Chen and posted to the</DI=
V>
  <DIV>IETF repository.</DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>Filename: draft-li-mpls-ldp-mt-mib</DIV>
  <DIV>Revision: 03</DIV>
  <DIV>Title: Management Information Base for MPLS LDP Multi Topology</DIV=
>
  <DIV>Creation date: 2012-06-27</DIV>
  <DIV>WG ID: Individual Submission</DIV>
  <DIV>Number of pages: 30</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>Abstract:</DIV>
  <DIV>This memo defines an portion of the Management Information Base=20
  (MIB)</DIV>
  <DIV>for use with network management protocols in the Internet=20
community.</DIV>
  <DIV>In particular, it describes a MIB module for Multi-Topology=20
Networks</DIV>
  <DIV>over Multi-protocol Label Switching(MPLS) Label Switching</DIV>
  <DIV>Routers(LSRs).<BR><SPAN><FONT=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =CB=CE=CC=E5; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><=
BR>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>B.R.</DIV>
<DIV>2012-07-16</DIV>
<HR style=3D"WIDTH: 210px; HEIGHT: 1px" align=3Dleft color=3D#b5c4df SIZE=
=3D1>

<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =CB=CE=CC=E5; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: =
10.5pt">
<DIV>Li Chen</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5>Research Institute of China Mobile=
<BR>Floor 11, Door=20
2, Dacheng Plaza<BR>No.28 Xuanwumen West Ave, Xuanwu District<BR>Beijing 1=
00053,=20
China<BR>Mobile: +86 13911677949<BR>Email:&nbsp;=20
lichenyj@chinamobile.com</FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></DIV=
></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From loa@pi.nu  Mon Jul 16 01:36:50 2012
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Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Working group,

this is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

The poll ends July 31st, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Mon Jul 16 04:27:42 2012
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro=
up of the IETF.

	Title           : Handling MPLS-TP OAM Packets Targeted at Internal MIPs
	Author(s)       : Adrian Farrel
                          Hideki Endo
                          Rolf Winter
                          Yoshinori Koike
                          Manuel Paul
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-02.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2012-07-16

Abstract:
   The Framework for Operations, Administration and Maintenance (OAM)
   within the MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) describes how Maintenance
   Entity Group Intermediate Points (MIPs) may be situated within
   network nodes at the incoming and outgoing interfaces.

   This document describes a way of forming OAM messages so that they
   can be targeted at MIPs on incoming or MIPs on outgoing interfaces,
   forwarded correctly through the forwarding engine, and handled
   efficiently in node implementations where there is no distinction
   between the incoming and outgoing MIP.

   This document is a product of a joint Internet Engineering Task Force
   (IETF) / International Telecommunication Union Telecommunication
   Standardization Sector (ITU-T) effort to include an MPLS Transport
   Profile within the IETF MPLS and PWE3 architectures to support the
   capabilities and functionalities of a packet transport network.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-02

A diff from previous version is available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-02


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From Rolf.Winter@neclab.eu  Mon Jul 16 04:35:58 2012
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From: Rolf Winter <Rolf.Winter@neclab.eu>
To: Muly Ilan <muly_i@rad.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Question regarding draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-01
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Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 11:36:52 +0000
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Hi Muly,

apologies for not replying earlier. The authors of the draft have discussed=
 this issue and we think we have found a suitable solution. We have added a=
 note to the draft and will add the solution in the next version of the doc=
ument.=20

Thanks (and sorry again for the really really long delay of the answer),

Rolf
=20

NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London =
W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014=20


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Muly Ilan
> Sent: Dienstag, 1. Mai 2012 23:01
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Question regarding draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-01
>=20
> Dear Authors,
>=20
>=20
>=20
> For the per-interface MIP model how do you suggest to perform a route
> tracing over a static MPLS-TP LSP?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> According to RFC6371 section 6.4 "Route tracing should always discover
> the full list of MIPs and of peer MEPs".
>=20
> RFC6424 section 4 specifies a method for route tracing using LSP-Ping.
> It explains to use MPLS TTL expiry to reach a specific node.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Your solution to address a specific in-MIP or out-MIP is to include the
> MIP identifier in the sent OAM packet. RFC6424 defines extensions to
> LSP-Ping, in the form of new TLVs and sub-TLVs, that allow to identify
> the target MIP within the node.
>=20
> However, for a static MPLS-TP LSP the MIP identifiers along the path
> are not known at the head-end prior to performing the route tracing and
> receiving the LSP-Pings echo responses.
>=20
> Seems like a chicken and egg issue.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I hope that there's a more elegant way than having the management plane
> configure all the relevant path identifiers at the head-end before
> attempting a route trace.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Muly Ilan


From francesco.fondelli@gmail.com  Mon Jul 16 05:23:11 2012
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From: Francesco Fondelli <francesco.fondelli@gmail.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, MPLS-TP ad hoc team <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>, draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv.all@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing.all@tools.ietf.org, "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] WG last call: draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv and draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing
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Hi,

I have a comment.

If a box received a frame with dest MAC addr 01-00-5E-90-00-00
on a link that is known *not* to be p2p (or its nature/usage
is unknown) I'd discard it.

If we agree this is a sensible behavior I think it SHOULD be explicitly
stated in draft tp-ethernet-addressing.  I think the Security
Considerations section is a good place (actually it only provides
suggestions to operators).

thank you
ciao
ff

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
> All,
>
> I managed to mistype some of the mail-aliases, please use this mail
> to respond.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2012-07-15 12:01, Loa Andersson wrote:
>>
>> Working Group,
>>
>> this is to start a working group last call on
>>
>> draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv-02
>> and
>> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing-01
>>
>> Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
>> (mpls@ietf.org).
>>
>> Normally this working group last call would last for two weeks, but
>> since we are going in the the cut-off period prior to the Vancouver
>> meeting, this wg last call ends when the cut-off is lifted during
>> the IETF week.
>>
>> /Loa
>> (as wg co-chair)
>>
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From muly_i@rad.com  Mon Jul 16 07:05:44 2012
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From: Muly Ilan <muly_i@rad.com>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00
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Hi,

1.
In section 5.2.2, Example of BFD Session configuration for Maintenance Enti=
ty of MPLS-TP TE tunnel, the object mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex of the=
 ME table in draft-vkst-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib is not mentioned.
It would be helpful to explain that when a BFD session with bfdMplsSessMapT=
ype=3Dmep(6) is created in the bfdSessTable, the value of the object mplsOa=
mIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex should be updated with the BFD session index.

2.
For the associated bidirectional LSPs case there would be two unidirectiona=
l MEs that together operate the BFD session. To which one of the MEs should=
 the map pointer, bfdMplsSessMapPointer, point?
I think it may point to either one of the unidirectional MEs i.e. make it i=
mplementation specific, but this should be described in the MIB.

3.
The term "session mode" in RFC6428 refers to coordinated operation vs. inde=
pendent operation. However the current object bfdMplsSessMode sets the BFD =
functionality to cc(1) or cv(2). Suggest to rename the object to bfdMplsSes=
sFunction.

4.
There's a need to configure what is the consequent action upon mis-connecti=
vity defect and LOC defect. Possible values: alarm only, alarm and block da=
ta.
Separate configuration for mis-connectivity and for LOC. Default value for =
mis-connectivity is alarm and block data. Default value for LOC is alarm on=
ly.
Maybe a common behavior for all BFD sessions is sufficient. In this case de=
fine two scalar objects.

5.
Suggest to add counters for received and transmitted CC and CV packets. Nee=
d separate counters for CC and CV.


Regards,

Muly

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In section 5.2.2, Example of BFD Session configurati=
on for Maintenance Entity of MPLS-TP TE tunnel, the object mplsOamIdMeProac=
tiveOamSessIndex of the ME table in draft-vkst-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib is not me=
ntioned.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It would be helpful to explain that when a BFD sessi=
on with bfdMplsSessMapType=3Dmep(6) is created in the bfdSessTable, the val=
ue of the object mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex should be updated with th=
e BFD session index.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For the associated bidirectional LSPs case there wou=
ld be two unidirectional MEs that together operate the BFD session. To whic=
h one of the MEs should the map pointer, bfdMplsSessMapPointer, point?<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think it may point to either one of the unidirecti=
onal MEs i.e. make it implementation specific, but this should be described=
 in the MIB.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">3.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The term &#8220;session mode&#8221; in RFC6428 refer=
s to coordinated operation vs. independent operation. However the current o=
bject bfdMplsSessMode sets the BFD functionality to cc(1) or cv(2). Suggest=
 to rename the object to bfdMplsSessFunction.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">4.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There&#8217;s a need to configure what is the conseq=
uent action upon mis-connectivity defect and LOC defect. Possible values: a=
larm only, alarm and block data.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Separate configuration for mis-connectivity and for =
LOC. Default value for mis-connectivity is alarm and block data. Default va=
lue for LOC is alarm only.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Maybe a common behavior for all BFD sessions is suff=
icient. In this case define two scalar objects.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">5.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Suggest to add counters for received and transmitted=
 CC and CV packets. Need separate counters for CC and CV.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Muly<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22C29DAC87042C7972EXRAD5adradcoil_--

From loa@pi.nu  Mon Jul 16 07:06:31 2012
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Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:07:13 +0200
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Cc: MPLS-TP ad hoc team <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv-all@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Cancelled: WG last call: draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv and draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing
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Working Group,

This working group last is Cancelled!

This was a mistake - I was waiting for a trigger to start the next
step. I got a trigger (response to the IPR call), but we have already
done the working group last call on the drafts (May 30 to June 15).

We are waiting for updated drafts before we go ahead and request
publication.

Sorry for the mistake.

/Loa



On 2012-07-15 12:01, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> this is to start a working group last call on
>
> draft-ietf-mpls-gach-adv-02
> and
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ethernet-addressing-01
>
> Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
> (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> Normally this working group last call would last for two weeks, but
> since we are going in the the cut-off period prior to the Vancouver
> meeting, this wg last call ends when the cut-off is lifted during
> the IETF week.
>
> /Loa
> (as wg co-chair)
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13



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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Support.

Cheers, Manav
(co-author)

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working group,
>
> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-**crypto-auth-05
> as an MPLS working group document.
>
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> The poll ends July 31st, 2012.
>
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/mpls<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls>
>

--e89a8ff1c1461d86bb04c4f44a18
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Support.<div><br></div><div>Cheers, Manav</div><div>(co-author)<br><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Loa Andersson <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Working group,<br>
<br>
this is to start a two week poll on adopting<br>
draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-<u></u>crypto-auth-05<br>
as an MPLS working group document.<br>
<br>
Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working<br>
group mailing list (<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls=
@ietf.org</a>).<br>
<br>
The poll ends July 31st, 2012.<br>
<br>
/Loa<br>
(mpls wg co-chair)<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 email: <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">loa.andersson@eri=
csson.com</a><br>
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:=
loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
Ericsson Inc =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: <a h=
ref=3D"tel:%2B46%2010%20717%2052%2013" value=3D"+46107175213" target=3D"_bl=
ank">+46 10 717 52 13</a><br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B46%20767%2072%2092%2013" value=3D"+467677=
29213" target=3D"_blank">+46 767 72 92 13</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--e89a8ff1c1461d86bb04c4f44a18--

From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Mon Jul 16 08:45:00 2012
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro=
up of the IETF.

	Title           : Temporal and hitless path segment monitoring
	Author(s)       : Alessandro D'Alessandro
                          Manuel Paul
                          Satoshi Ueno
                          Yoshinori Koike
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-01.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2012-07-16

Abstract:
   The MPLS transport profile (MPLS-TP) is being standardized to enable
   carrier-grade packet transport and complement converged packet
   network deployments. Among the most attractive features of MPLS-TP
   are OAM functions, which enable network operators or service
   providers to provide various maintenance characteristics, such as
   fault location, survivability, performance monitoring, and
   preliminary or in-service measurements.

   One of the most important mechanisms which is common for transport
   network operation is fault location. A segment monitoring function of
   a transport path is effective in terms of extension of the
   maintenance work and indispensable particularly when the OAM function
   is effective only between end points. However, the current approach
   defined for MPLS-TP for the segment monitoring (SPME) has some fatal
   drawbacks. This document elaborates on the problem statement for the
   Sub-path Maintenance Elements (SPMEs) which provides monitoring of a
   portion of a set of transport paths (LSPs or MS-PWs). Based on the
   problems, this document specifies new requirements to consider a new
   improved mechanism of hitless transport path segment monitoring.

   This document is a product of a joint Internet Engineering Task Force
   (IETF) / International Telecommunications Union Telecommunications
   Standardization Sector (ITU-T) effort to include an MPLS Transport
   Profile within the IETF MPLS and PWE3 architectures to support the
   capabilities and functionalities of a packet transport network.




The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-01

A diff from previous version is available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-ps=
m-01


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
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Overall, I think this is a solid draft.  It presents a pair of problems and=
 the solution to those problems.  I'd like to see some input from the large=
r community as to whether the two problems the draft presents as prevalent =
in operational networks.  I'm also curious whether there are any other uses=
 cases that may take advantage of HSMP.  Is there an analog in non-TE mcast=
 that could be addressed with HSMP?

Assuming the use cases are valid, I can see it eventually being adopted as =
a WG document.

I have a few comments:

- Section 1.1 talks about time synchronization.  I'm not a timing expert, s=
o I'm just going off of what I can infer from the document.  The text=20

"This is possible because of the link delay calculation performed locally b=
y each node, which enables it to calculate the propagation delay over the p=
ath.  This scenario permits that the same PTP Sync messages would be sent b=
y the PTP master to all the PTP slaves"=20

implies that each hop in an LSP used for timing distribution would need to =
examine the packet, modify it, and send it on.  Strictly speaking this is o=
utside the scope of this draft, but it seems a heck of a thing to just assu=
me, since it is an important prerequisite for this particular use case.

Manav, you're on draft-davari-tictoc-1588overmpls as well as this draft.  D=
o you anticipate that a HSMP LSP would use methods from that draft to distr=
ibute timing?  If the methods in draft-davari-tictoc-1588overmpls were not =
standardized, would the HSMP draft still be able to solve the timing distri=
bution use case?


-  The draft's approach merges the return traffic from the leaves.  Using F=
igure 1 (p. 5) as an example, node B will assign the same UPSTREAM_LABEL fo=
r all flows from all leaves.  This means we can't use this approach for MPL=
S-TP.  It seems that the problems identified in this draft would be relevan=
t to those who want to use a TP-style approach for their LSPs.  I know this=
 is not an MPLS-TP draft, but it would be nice to solve the p2mp+return pro=
blem once for both traditional TE and for TP.  It would be nice to have a w=
ay for an upstream node to give out different upstream labels per downstrea=
m hop.  I realize this increases the ILM requirements on the HSMP headend, =
but I fear that without this ability we'll have to solve the problem twice.


- The example on p. 11 is hard to follow.  At step 2, it looks like PE1 bui=
lds a p2p LSP to PE3 which is then converted to a p2mp LSP?  If the intent =
is to build a p2mp LSP to PE3, it should probably say something like "PE1 s=
ignals a P2MP LSP with PE3 as the only leaf" or something. =20




eric


From manavbhatia@gmail.com  Mon Jul 16 09:16:24 2012
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From: Manav Bhatia <manavbhatia@gmail.com>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "Bhatia, Manav \(Manav\) \(manav.bhatia@alcatel-lucent.com\)" <manav.bhatia@alcatel-lucent.com>, "lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn" <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments on draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
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Hi Eric,

Yes i am the co-author of draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls. I believe we
can use the HSMP LSP described in this draft for timing distribution
irrespective of whether we accept the solution described in the tictoc
draft or not.

[clipped]

> "This is possible because of the link delay calculation performed locally by each node,
> which enables it to calculate the propagation delay over the path.  This scenario
> permits that the same PTP Sync messages would be sent by the PTP master to all the PTP slaves"
>
> implies that each hop in an LSP used for timing distribution would need to examine the packet, modify it,
> and send it on.  Strictly speaking this is outside the scope of this draft, but it seems a heck of
> a thing to just assume, since it is an important prerequisite for this particular use case.

Well, this is precisely what happens when you try to ship timing
packets over MPLS. Each LSR updates the residence time in the 1588
packet before forwarding it downstream.

The following blog post describes the HSMP LSP in detail and should
address most of your questions:
http://routingfreak.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/hub-and-spoke-multi-point-lsps-for-scalable-vpls-architecture/

Cheers, Manav

From iesg-secretary@ietf.org  Mon Jul 16 09:31:32 2012
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Subject: [mpls] Protocol Action: 'The Generalized TTL Security Mechanism (GTSM) for	Label Distribution Protocol (LDP)' to Proposed Standard	(draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-gtsm-09.txt)
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The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'The Generalized TTL Security Mechanism (GTSM) for Label Distribution
   Protocol (LDP)'
  (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-gtsm-09.txt) as Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working
Group.

The IESG contact persons are Adrian Farrel and Stewart Bryant.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-gtsm/




Technical Summary

   The Generalized TTL Security Mechanism (GTSM) describes a generalized
   use of a packets Time to Live (TTL) (IPv4) or Hop Limit (IPv6) to
   verify that the packet was sourced by a node on a connected link,
   thereby protecting the router's IP control-plane from CPU utilization
   based attacks.  This technique improves security and is used by many
   protocols.  This document defines the GTSM use for the Label
   Distribution Protocol (LDP).

   This specification uses a bit reserved in RFC 5036 and therefore
   updates RFC 5036.

Working Group Summary

  This document has been through a pretty normal working group 
  process, with no discontent and strong support.

  The document was last called in the MPLS working group, and information
  about this last call was copied to the rtgwg. 

Document Quality

  We know of plans to implement this specification. A request was 
  sent to the MPLS working mailing list for further information and
  there were indications from vendors that this will be implemnted.

  Since this is based on RFC 5082 and LDP is a pretty 
  straightforward protocol the review process has not led to
  any major changes in the document. One of the co-authors of
  this document is also a co-author of RFC 5082. LDP was also 
  highlighted in RFC 5082 as one of the potential protocols that
  the would benefite from a GTSM mechanis.

  The AD review prior to IETF last call led to a number of minor
  updates, and a Routing Directorate review by Eric Gray during
  IETF last call led to a further revision.

Personnel

  Loa Andersson (loa@pi.nu) is the document shepherd
  Adrian Farrel (adrian@olddog.co.uk) is the Responsible AD

From nsheth@juniper.net  Mon Jul 16 10:12:42 2012
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References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0752F651@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275720282E6@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <CAA=duU3C=4UN_n-pwGb9+-2RvHVWizYWFbKs86OSq-bmyK_PtQ@mail.gmail.com> <5000C621.4000703@juniper.net> <CAA=duU3uuyqBMOwg-3LuMu0zgV__4t6pz=WJh2K0i+jXF7o-Ng@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-xu-mpls-in-udp-02.txt
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On 7/14/2012 6:28 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> Nischal,
>
> Thanks, I'm aware of draft-marques, but draft-xu is explicitly focused
> on core applications (or so it says, many times), so I didn't see data
> center as a use case. I suggest that draft-xu be updated if it is also
> intended for non-core applications, such as data center, mobile
> backhaul, and/or aggregation networks. A sentence will do.
>

Hi Andy,

Thanks, that's a fair comment - we will update the draft accordingly.

-Nischal



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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro=
up of the IETF.

	Title           : MPLS-TP Traffic Engineering (TE) Management Information =
Base (MIB)
	Author(s)       : Venkatesan Mahalingam
                          Kannan KV Sampath
                          Sam Aldrin
                          Thomas D. Nadeau
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib-04.txt
	Pages           : 47
	Date            : 2012-07-16

Abstract:
   This memo defines a portion of the Management Information Base (MIB)
   for use with network management protocols in the Internet community.
   In particular, it describes managed objects of Tunnels, Identifiers,
   Label Switch Router and Textual conventions for Multiprotocol Label
   Switching (MPLS) based Transport Profile (TP).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib-04

A diff from previous version is available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib-04


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ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
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 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro=
up of the IETF.

	Title           : The Use of Entropy Labels in MPLS Forwarding
	Author(s)       : Kireeti Kompella
                          John Drake
                          Shane Amante
                          Wim Henderickx
                          Lucy Yong
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label-04.txt
	Pages           : 23
	Date            : 2012-07-09

Abstract:
   Load balancing is a powerful tool for engineering traffic across a
   network.  This memo suggests ways of improving load balancing across
   MPLS networks using the concept of "entropy labels".  It defines the
   concept, describes why entropy labels are useful, enumerates
   properties of entropy labels that allow maximal benefit, and shows
   how they can be signaled and used for various applications.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label

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http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label-04

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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-rosetta-stone-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro=
up of the IETF.

	Title           : A Thesaurus for the Terminology used in Multiprotocol La=
bel Switching Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) drafts/RFCs and ITU-T's Transport=
 Network Recommendations.
	Author(s)       : Huub van Helvoort
                          Loa Andersson
                          Nurit Sprecher
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-tp-rosetta-stone-06.txt
	Pages           : 18
	Date            : 2012-07-16

Abstract:
   MPLS-TP is based on a profile of the MPLS and PW procedures as
   specified in the MPLS-TE and (MS-)PW architectures developed by the
   IETF.  The ITU-T has specified a Transport Network architecture.

   This document provides a thesaurus for the interpretation of MPLS-TP
   terminology within the context of the ITU-T Transport Network
   recommendations.

   It is important to note that MPLS-TP is applicable in a wider set of
   contexts than just Transport Networks.  The definitions presented in
   this document do not provide exclusive nor complete interpretations
   of MPLS-TP concepts.  This document simply allows the MPLS-TP terms
   to be applied within the Transport Network context.




The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-rosetta-stone

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-rosetta-stone-06

A diff from previous version is available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-rosetta-stone-06


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-multi-topology-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro=
up of the IETF.

	Title           : LDP Extensions for Multi Topology Routing
	Author(s)       : Quintin Zhao
                          Luyuan Fang
                          Chao Zhou
                          Lianyuan Li
                          Ning So
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-multi-topology-04.txt
	Pages           : 17
	Date            : 2012-07-16

Abstract:
   Multi-Topology (MT) routing is supported in IP networks with the use
   of MT aware IGP protocols.  In order to provide MT routing within
   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Distribution Protocol
   (LDP) networks new extensions are required.

   This document describes the LDP protocol extensions required to
   support MT routing in an MPLS environment.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-multi-topology

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-multi-topology-04

A diff from previous version is available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-ldp-multi-topology-04


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Subject: [mpls] RFC 6669 on An Overview of the Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) Toolset for MPLS-Based Transport Networks
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 6669

        Title:      An Overview of the Operations, 
                    Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) Toolset for 
                    MPLS-Based Transport Networks 
        Author:     N. Sprecher, L. Fang
        Status:     Informational
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       July 2012
        Mailbox:    nurit.sprecher@nsn.com, 
                    lufang@cisco.com
        Pages:      21
        Characters: 46171
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-mpls-tp-oam-analysis-09.txt

        URL:        http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6669.txt

This document provides an overview of the Operations, Administration,
and Maintenance (OAM) toolset for MPLS-based transport networks.
The toolset consists of a comprehensive set of fault
management and performance monitoring capabilities (operating in the
data plane) that are appropriate for transport networks as required
in RFC 5860 and support the network and services at different nested
levels.  This overview includes a brief recap of the MPLS Transport
Profile (MPLS-TP) OAM requirements and functions and the generic
mechanisms created in the MPLS data plane that allow the OAM packets
to run in-band and share their fate with data packets.  The protocol
definitions for each of the MPLS-TP OAM tools are defined in separate
documents (RFCs or Working Group documents), which are referenced by this
document.  This document is not an Internet Standards Track specification; 
it is published for informational purposes.

This document is a product of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.


INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community.
It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of
this memo is unlimited.

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From skraza@cisco.com  Mon Jul 16 15:43:27 2012
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From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>
To: "thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, "draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org" <draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
Thread-Index: AQHNX3x0Fyol9spda0Gcw1+S4iD0d5csmrwA
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:44:05 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Hi Thomas,

Thanks for your review. Please see inline [skraza]:

On 12-07-11 11:47 AM, "thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have reviewed the draft and agree with others reviewers: this document
>is straightforward, useful, well written, and ready for adoption.
>
>Simple as it is, it might even be ready for a WGLC ;-).
>
>I have however, one comment.  It was suggested that the document should
>make it MANDATORY for future LDP application to state the applicability
>of the negotiated mode.  I wonder if a simpler solution could be
>considered: say that by default, unless a new application says that the
>negotiated mode applies, then by default it the negotiated mode would
>not apply.  This would possibly reduce the overhead for authors of
>future specs, and avoid possible confusion raising forgetting to apply
>this MUST. =20

[skraza]: On the flip side, can this still not cause confusion if an
author=20
of a future (mode-bound) application misses this (default)
statement/requirement;
and thinks/assumes (just based on RFC 5036) that its new application will
use the negotiated mode, whereas, in reality, the negotiated mode won't
apply=20
unless stated explicitly.

For this revision of draft, I will take the comment (use of "MUST") from
other authors,=20
and keep your suggestion open for WG discussion/consensus/closure in
subsequent Revs.

Rgds,
-- Kamran

>Of course, this approach is only valid if we believe that
>applications that need to rely on the negotiated mode are rare and
>easily identified.
>
>-Thomas
>
>
>2012-06-20, Ross Callon :
>> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
>> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv.
>> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
>> (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
>> the document technically sound? We are interested in knowing whether the
>> document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=B9t
>> have to
>> be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
>> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
>> secretary,
>> and CC=B9d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
>> privately to only the WG chairs.
>> Are you able to review this draft by July 11, 2012 (this is giving you
>>an
>> extra week due to the July 4th holiday)?
>> Thanks, Ross
>> (as MPLS WG chair)
>
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Hi,


1.       Section 9.2.6 should be renamed to "Reverse direction mplsTunnelEn=
try" instead of "Forward direction mplsTunnelEntry".

2.       In section 9.2.10 change "mplsXCExtTunnelPointer         =3D mplsT=
unnelName.1.1.1.2" to "mplsXCExtTunnelPointer         =3D mplsTunnelName.2.=
1.2.1".


Muly

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Section 9.2.6 should be re=
named to &#8220;Reverse direction mplsTunnelEntry&#8221; instead of &#8220;=
Forward direction mplsTunnelEntry&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>In section 9.2.10 change &=
#8220;mplsXCExtTunnelPointer&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; =3D mplsTunnelName.1.1.1.2&#8221; to &#8220;mplsXCExtTunnelPointer&nbsp;&=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Muly<o:p></o:p></p>
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--_000_32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22C29DAC87042C7C5DEXRAD5adradcoil_--

From loa@pi.nu  Tue Jul 17 04:28:13 2012
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Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:25:00 +0200
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Cc: "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
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Working Group,

A few weeks ago the working group chairs asked for volunteers to do
a first spin on a response to the liaison "Revision of Recommendation
ITU-T G.8131 – Linear protection switching for MPLS-TP networks"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1162/).

Thanks to Yacoov W and Eric O who stepped and did most of the work,
thanks also to people who sent comments and advices.

Included is a proposed response to the liaison.

Please send comments on the proposal to the MPLS working group mailing
list (mpls@ietf.org) July 26th the latest.

/Loa
(MPLS WG co-chair)

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


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From: Yaacov Weingarten <wyaacov@gmail.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
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Loa, hi

Just one editorial comment -
In the second paragraph remove the redundant phrase "that were raised in
your LS" toward the end of the paragraph.

Thank you and BR,
yaacov

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working Group,
>
> A few weeks ago the working group chairs asked for volunteers to do
> a first spin on a response to the liaison "Revision of Recommendation
> ITU-T G.8131 =96 Linear protection switching for MPLS-TP networks"
> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/**liaison/1162/<https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/liaison/1162/>
> ).
>
> Thanks to Yacoov W and Eric O who stepped and did most of the work,
> thanks also to people who sent comments and advices.
>
> Included is a proposed response to the liaison.
>
> Please send comments on the proposal to the MPLS working group mailing
> list (mpls@ietf.org) July 26th the latest.
>
> /Loa
> (MPLS WG co-chair)
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Loa, hi<div><br></div><div>Just one editorial comment -</d=
iv><div>In the second paragraph remove the redundant phrase &quot;that were=
 raised in your LS&quot; toward the end of the paragraph.</div><div><br></d=
iv>
<div>Thank you and BR,</div><div>yaacov<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O=
n Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Loa Andersson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Working Group,<br>
<br>
A few weeks ago the working group chairs asked for volunteers to do<br>
a first spin on a response to the liaison &quot;Revision of Recommendation<=
br>
ITU-T G.8131 =96 Linear protection switching for MPLS-TP networks&quot;<br>
(<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1162/" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/<u></u>liaison/1162/</a>).<br>
<br>
Thanks to Yacoov W and Eric O who stepped and did most of the work,<br>
thanks also to people who sent comments and advices.<br>
<br>
Included is a proposed response to the liaison.<br>
<br>
Please send comments on the proposal to the MPLS working group mailing<br>
list (<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>)=
 July 26th the latest.<br>
<br>
/Loa<br>
(MPLS WG co-chair)<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 email: <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">loa.andersson@eri=
csson.com</a><br>
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:=
loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
Ericsson Inc =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: <a h=
ref=3D"tel:%2B46%2010%20717%2052%2013" value=3D"+46107175213" target=3D"_bl=
ank">+46 10 717 52 13</a><br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B46%20767%2072%2092%2013" value=3D"+467677=
29213" target=3D"_blank">+46 767 72 92 13</a><br>
<br>
</font></span><br>_______________________________________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for	draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Support!
Lucy

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa=
 Andersson
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:38 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tool=
s.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-=
auth-05

Working group,

this is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

The poll ends July 31st, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)

--=20


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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To: Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Support.

>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>Loa Andersson
>Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:38 AM
>To: mpls@ietf.org
>Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;
>draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tools.ietf.org
>Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for
>draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
>
>Working group,
>
>this is to start a two week poll on adopting
>draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
>as an MPLS working group document.
>
>Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
>group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
>The poll ends July 31st, 2012.
>
>/Loa
>(mpls wg co-chair)
>
>--=20
>
>
>Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
>Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
>Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" <eosborne@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
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One thing you may wish to add to #3 is that per G.870 clause 3.2.28, "The e=
xercise functionality is optional". =20



eric


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Loa Andersson
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:25 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switchi=
ng
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
> A few weeks ago the working group chairs asked for volunteers to do
> a first spin on a response to the liaison "Revision of Recommendation
> ITU-T G.8131 - Linear protection switching for MPLS-TP networks"
> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1162/).
>=20
> Thanks to Yacoov W and Eric O who stepped and did most of the work,
> thanks also to people who sent comments and advices.
>=20
> Included is a proposed response to the liaison.
>=20
> Please send comments on the proposal to the MPLS working group mailing
> list (mpls@ietf.org) July 26th the latest.
>=20
> /Loa
> (MPLS WG co-chair)
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13


From agmalis@gmail.com  Tue Jul 17 11:44:40 2012
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Support.

Cheers,
Andy

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
> Working group,
>
> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
> as an MPLS working group document.
>
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> The poll ends July 31st, 2012.
>
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From pabloisnot@gmail.com  Tue Jul 17 13:50:50 2012
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From: Pablo Frank <pabloisnot@gmail.com>
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Subject: [mpls] Comments on draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-00.txt
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Good draft and certainly something that needs to be done before we can
start discussing specific solutions.

Only a few comments / questions:

- In 4.1.1, if one is operating in an MPLS-TP network that requires
exclusive use of the protection resources, doesn't this SHOULD requirement
become a MUST requirement?
- Nit: you might want to avoid using the "query" verb in the title of 4.1.1
because it subtly suggests some kind of protocol messaging is required.  I
would use the more generic verb "checking" or "verifying".
- In 4.3, there is no suggestion for what should happen if one or more
failing paths in an MPLS-TP network are of equal priority.  I presume it
will be some kind of first-come, first-serve requirement but this will
bring up the question of how to break ties.
- Also in 4.3, there is an allowance for a high priority path and a lower
priority path to temporarily share the protection resources while
preemption is taking place.  Two questions:

- Is the ingress node to the shared segment expected to discard excess
traffic now that the protection-path is temporarily oversubscribed?
- If not, how do we ensure that other transport paths are unaffected?

- The first paragraph of 4.4 appears to contradict 4.1.1.  4.4 seems to
suggest that one MUST switch the traffic onto the protection path first and
then get notified if there's not enough resources.  That's probably okay in
the general case.  But in an MPLS-TP network, I don't think it's a good
idea to blindly switch low priority traffic onto the protection path and
possibly disrupt a high priority path that is already using that resource.
- In section 4.5, there's an attempt to define "protection switching time"
as not including preemption time.  I don't think end-users really care
about "protection switching time".  They care about recovery time and IMO,
that should also include fault detection time (although it doesn't per RFC
5654) and any preemption time.

regards,
Pablo

--0016e65b5db20a578404c50cb6f6
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Good draft and certainly something that needs to be done before we can star=
t discussing specific solutions.<div><br></div><div>Only a few comments / q=
uestions:</div><div><br></div><div>- In 4.1.1, if one is operating in an MP=
LS-TP network that requires exclusive use of the protection resources, does=
n&#39;t this SHOULD requirement become a MUST requirement?</div>

<div>- Nit: you might want to avoid using the &quot;query&quot; verb in the=
 title of 4.1.1 because it subtly suggests some kind of protocol messaging =
is required. =A0I would use the more generic verb &quot;checking&quot; or &=
quot;verifying&quot;.</div>

<div>- In 4.3, there is no suggestion for what should happen if one or more=
 failing paths in an MPLS-TP network are of equal priority. =A0I presume it=
 will be some kind of first-come, first-serve requirement but this will bri=
ng up the question of how to break ties.</div>

<div>- Also in 4.3, there is an allowance for a high priority path and a lo=
wer priority path to temporarily share the protection resources while preem=
ption is taking place. =A0Two questions:</div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>- Is the ingress node to the shared segment expected to discard excess=
 traffic now that the protection-path is temporarily oversubscribed?</div><=
div>- If not, how do we ensure that other transport paths are unaffected?</=
div>
</blockquote><div>- The first paragraph of 4.4 appears to contradict 4.1.1.=
 =A04.4 seems to suggest that one MUST switch the traffic onto the protecti=
on path first and then get notified if there&#39;s not enough resources. =
=A0That&#39;s probably okay in the general case. =A0But in an MPLS-TP netwo=
rk, I don&#39;t think it&#39;s a good idea to blindly switch low priority t=
raffic onto the protection path and possibly disrupt a high priority path t=
hat is already using that resource.</div>
<div>- In section 4.5, there&#39;s an attempt to define &quot;protection sw=
itching time&quot; as not including preemption time. =A0I don&#39;t think e=
nd-users really care about &quot;protection switching time&quot;. =A0They c=
are about recovery time and IMO, that should also include fault detection t=
ime (although it doesn&#39;t per RFC 5654) and any preemption time.</div>
<div><br></div><div>regards,</div><div>Pablo</div><div><br></div>

--0016e65b5db20a578404c50cb6f6--

From venkatflex@gmail.com  Tue Jul 17 13:55:24 2012
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Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:56:11 -0700
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From: venkatesan mahalingam <venkatflex@gmail.com>
To: Muly Ilan <muly_i@rad.com>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Typos in draft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib-04
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Hi,

Thanks for your comments. We will fix the typos in the next version.

Regards,
Venkat.

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:47 AM, Muly Ilan <muly_i@rad.com> wrote:

>  Hi,****
>
> ** **
>
> **1.       **Section 9.2.6 should be renamed to =93Reverse direction
> mplsTunnelEntry=94 instead of =93Forward direction mplsTunnelEntry=94.***=
*
>
> **2.       **In section 9.2.10 change =93mplsXCExtTunnelPointer         =
=3D
> mplsTunnelName.1.1.1.2=94 to =93mplsXCExtTunnelPointer         =3D
> mplsTunnelName.2.1.2.1=94.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Muly****
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>

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Hi,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for your comments. We will fix the typos in t=
he next version.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Venkat.<br><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:47 AM, Muly Ilan <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muly_i@rad.com" target=3D"_blank">muly_=
i@rad.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span>1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
</span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Section 9.2.6 should be renam=
ed to =93Reverse direction mplsTunnelEntry=94 instead of =93Forward directi=
on mplsTunnelEntry=94.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span>2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
</span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>In section 9.2.10 change =93m=
plsXCExtTunnelPointer=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =3D mplsTunnelName.1.1.1.2=94=
 to =93mplsXCExtTunnelPointer=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =3D mplsTunnelName.2.=
1.2.1=94.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><u></u><u></u></fon=
t></span></p>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Muly<u></u><u></u></p>
</font></span></div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:46:00 -0400
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Support.=20

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa=
 Andersson
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:38 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tool=
s.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-=
auth-05

Working group,

this is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

The poll ends July 31st, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)

--=20


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

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From jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com  Tue Jul 17 14:58:20 2012
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From: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
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Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:58:58 -0400
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Yes/support

Regards,
Jeff


-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa=
 Andersson
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:38 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tool=
s.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-=
auth-05

Working group,

this is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group m=
ailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

The poll ends July 31st, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)

--=20


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13
_______________________________________________
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From: "Chenying (Emily)" <emily.chenying@huawei.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for	draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Support!

Best regards,
Emily Chen=20

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa=
 Andersson
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:38 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tool=
s.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-=
auth-05

Working group,

this is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

The poll ends July 31st, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)

--=20


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com  Tue Jul 17 17:48:42 2012
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Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:49:22 -0400
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Dear Authors, et al.,
Please consider my comments to the document as part of the WG LC:
*       The document is focused on a mechanism to specify return path of LS=
P Ping Echo Request over LSP. However, LSP Ping can be used over PW VCCV (R=
FC 5085). Is extension of ability to specify LSP Ping return path in case o=
f PW VCCV within document's scope?
*       LSP Ping Echo Reply is optional hence benefit of using Return Path =
TLV when bootstrapping BFD session over an LSP is somewhat limited.
*       Section 3. Extensions
"It carries the Forwarding Equivalence Class (FEC) information of the teste=
d LSP ..." Perhaps "of the LSP under test" or "of the LST being tested" wil=
l make it clearer whose FEC being used.
*       Section 3.1 Consistent capitalization, e.g. "Reply via specified pa=
th" vs. "Reply Via Specified Path".
*       Section 3.1 "The Reply Via Specified Path mode is used to notify th=
e remote LSR receiving the LSP Ping echo request message to send ..." I thi=
nk that more accurate would be "The Reply Via Specified Path mode is used t=
o request that the remote LSR receiving the LSP Ping echo request message s=
ends ..."
*       Section 3.2 "The Reply Path (RP) TLV is optionally included in an e=
cho request message". Would the following be more accurate "If the Reply Vi=
a Specified Path mode requested, the Reply Path (RP) TLV must be included i=
n an echo reply message".
*       Section 3.2 Caption seems misplaced. Presented format, from the acc=
ompanying description, is of the Return Path TLV, not of PSN Tunnel sub-TLV=
.
*       Section 3.2 lists Reply Path return codes but I don't see how these=
 are administered. The field is 2 octets length and only eight values being=
 defined in the document. How remaining 65528 values partitioned and assign=
ed? And I'd suggest to present defined values as u_int16, e.g. 0x0000, 0x00=
01, etc.
*       Section 3.2. When describing A (Alternative path) flag document ref=
ers to non-default return path though what is the default return path is no=
t being defined.
*       Section 3.2, last para. Document states that only one sub-TLV SHOUL=
D be carried in the Reply Path TLV. There are valid scenarios when no sub-T=
LV is necessary but I don't see any valid scenario hen more than one sub-TL=
V can be included. Would the following text be used "... not more than one =
sub-TLV MUST be carried ..." If there are scenarios when more than one sub-=
TLV can be included into the RP TLV, then there should be explanation of ho=
w such situation managed by a receiver of Echo Request, whether there's imp=
licit priorities among multiple sub-TLVs.
*       Section 4,second para. s/which enable/that enable/
*       Section 6.2 AFAIK, values from Vendor Private Use, according to RFC=
 4379, as to common practice, MUST NOT be allocated. I think it would be be=
tter to seek allocation for new sub-TLVs from IANA's Multi-Protocol Label S=
witching (MPLS) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) Ping Parameters registry for TL=
Vs and sub-TLVs.

        Regards,
                Greg


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: working group las call on
draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 17:04:06 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
To: mpls@ietf.org <mpls@ietf.org>
CC: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, draft-ietf-mpl=
s-return-path-specified-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org
<draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vig=
oureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>

Working Group,

this is to start a working group last call on

draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt

Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

This working group last call July 23, 2012.

Please note that there is an IPR disclosure against this draft.

/Loa
for the MPLS working group co-chairs
--


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


--


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13





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>
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<body>
<font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"2">
<div>Dear Authors, et al.,</div>
<div>Please consider my comments to the document as part of the WG LC:</div=
>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">The document is focused on a mecha=
nism to specify return path of LSP Ping Echo Request over LSP. However, LSP=
 Ping can be used over PW VCCV (RFC 5085). Is extension of ability to speci=
fy
LSP Ping return path in case of PW VCCV within document's scope?</font></fo=
nt></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">LSP Ping Echo Reply is optional he=
nce benefit of using Return Path TLV when bootstrapping BFD session over an=
 LSP is somewhat limited.</font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Section 3. Extensions</font></font=
></div>
<div>&#8220;It carries the Forwarding Equivalence Class (FEC) information o=
f the tested LSP &#8230;&#8221; Perhaps &#8220;of the LSP under test&#8221;=
 or &#8220;of the LST being tested&#8221; will make it clearer whose FEC be=
ing used.</div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Section 3.1 Consistent capitalizat=
ion, e.g. &#8220;Reply via specified path&#8221; vs. &#8220;Reply Via Speci=
fied Path&#8221;.</font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Section 3.1 &#8220;The Reply Via S=
pecified Path mode is used to notify the remote LSR receiving the LSP Ping =
echo request message to send &#8230;&#8221; I think that more accurate woul=
d be &#8220;The Reply
Via Specified Path mode is used to request that the remote LSR receiving th=
e LSP Ping echo request message sends &#8230;&#8221;</font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Section 3.2 &#8220;The Reply Path =
(RP) TLV is optionally included in an echo request message&#8221;. Would th=
e following be more accurate &#8220;If the Reply Via Specified Path mode re=
quested, the Reply
Path (RP) TLV must be included in an echo reply message&#8221;.</font></fon=
t></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Section 3.2 Caption seems misplace=
d. Presented format, from the accompanying description, is of the Return Pa=
th TLV, not of PSN Tunnel sub-TLV.</font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Section 3.2 lists Reply Path retur=
n codes but I don&#8217;t see how these are administered. The field is 2 oc=
tets length and only eight values being defined in the document. How remain=
ing
65528 values partitioned and assigned? And I&#8217;d suggest to present def=
ined values as u_int16, e.g. 0x0000, 0x0001, etc.</font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Section 3.2. When describing A (Al=
ternative path) flag document refers to non-default return path though what=
 is the default return path is not being defined.</font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Section 3.2, last para. Document s=
tates that only one sub-TLV SHOULD be carried in the Reply Path TLV. There =
are valid scenarios when no sub-TLV is necessary but I don&#8217;t see any =
valid
scenario hen more than one sub-TLV can be included. Would the following tex=
t be used &#8220;&#8230; not more than one sub-TLV MUST be carried &#8230;&=
#8221; If there are scenarios when more than one sub-TLV can be included in=
to the RP TLV, then there should be explanation of how such
situation managed by a receiver of Echo Request, whether there&#8217;s impl=
icit priorities among multiple sub-TLVs.</font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Section 4,second para. s/which ena=
ble/that enable/</font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Section 6.2 AFAIK, values from Ven=
dor Private Use, according to RFC 4379, as to common practice, MUST NOT be =
allocated. I think it would be better to seek allocation for new sub-TLVs
from IANA&#8217;s Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path=
s (LSPs) Ping Parameters registry for TLVs and sub-TLVs. </font></font></di=
v>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg<font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"> </font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">-------- Original Message --------</f=
ont></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Subject: working group las call on</f=
ont></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified=
-lsp-ping-05.txt</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 17:04:06 &#43;=
0200</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">From: Loa Andersson &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;=
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">To: mpls@ietf.org &lt;mpls@ietf.org&g=
t;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">CC: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org &lt;mp=
ls-chairs@tools.ietf.org&gt;, draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-pin=
g@tools.ietf.org</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&lt;draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-speci=
fied-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org&gt;, Martin Vigoureux &lt;martin.vigoureux@alc=
atel-lucent.com&gt;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Working Group,</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">this is to start a working group last=
 call on</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified=
-lsp-ping-05.txt</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Please send your comments to the MPLS=
 wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">This working group last call July 23,=
 2012.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Please note that there is an IPR disc=
losure against this draft.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">/Loa</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">for the MPLS working group co-chairs<=
/font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">-- </font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: loa.andersson@ericsson=
.com</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Sr Strategy and Standards Manager&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; loa@pi.nu</f=
ont></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Ericsson Inc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: &#43;46 10 717 52=
 13</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; &#43;46 767 72 92 13</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">-- </font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: loa.andersson@ericsson=
.com</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Sr Strategy and Standards Manager&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; loa@pi.nu</f=
ont></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Ericsson Inc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: &#43;46 10 717 52=
 13</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; &#43;46 767 72 92 13</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
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From venkatflex@gmail.com  Tue Jul 17 22:40:37 2012
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From: venkatesan mahalingam <venkatflex@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00
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Thanks Muly for your comments, please see my answers inlined with the tag
[VM].

Cheers,
Venkat.

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:08:32 +0000
From: Muly Ilan <muly_i@rad.com>
To: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00
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        <32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22C29DAC87042C799D@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il>
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Hi,

1.
In section 5.2.2, Example of BFD Session configuration for Maintenance
Entity of MPLS-TP TE tunnel, the object mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex of
the ME table in draft-vkst-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib is not mentioned.
It would be helpful to explain that when a BFD session with
bfdMplsSessMapType=mep(6) is created in the bfdSessTable, the value of the
object mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex should be updated with the BFD
session index.

[VM] OK

2.
For the associated bidirectional LSPs case there would be two
unidirectional MEs that together operate the BFD session. To which one of
the MEs should the map pointer, bfdMplsSessMapPointer, point?
I think it may point to either one of the unidirectional MEs i.e. make it
implementation specific, but this should be described in the MIB.
[VM] This draft suggests to map each ME of LSP/PW entry with the BFD
session entry, for associated bidirectional case, having an BFD session
entry to point to either one of the unidirectional ME is purely
implementation specific, IMO, nothing needs to be described.

3.
The term "session mode" in RFC6428 refers to coordinated operation vs.
independent operation. However the current object bfdMplsSessMode sets the
BFD functionality to cc(1) or cv(2). Suggest to rename the object to
bfdMplsSessFunction.
[VM] IMO,MIB object for coordinated & independent session mode operation is
not required as we can infer it from bfd.MinRxInterval value 0.

bfdMplsSessMode denotes the BFD message format (CC/CV) to be carried
in the BFD control packet, IMO this MIB object should be retained.

if this MIB object name does not convey the right meaning, we might
need to choose appropriate MIB object name.


4.
There's a need to configure what is the consequent action upon
mis-connectivity defect and LOC defect. Possible values: alarm only, alarm
and block data.
Separate configuration for mis-connectivity and for LOC. Default value for
mis-connectivity is alarm and block data. Default value for LOC is alarm
only.
Maybe a common behavior for all BFD sessions is sufficient. In this case
define two scalar objects.
[VM] OK

5.
Suggest to add counters for received and transmitted CC and CV packets.
Need separate counters for CC and CV.
[VM] OK

Regards,

Muly

--14dae9cdc47d18c3f004c5141d6d
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<div><br></div>Thanks Muly for your comments, please see my answers inlined=
 with the tag [VM].<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Venkat.<br><div><b=
r></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 =
14:08:32 +0000</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,san=
s-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">From: Muly Ilan &lt;</span><a href=
=3D"mailto:muly_i@rad.com" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,=
sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">muly_i@rad.com=
</a><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">&gt;</span><br style=3D"color:rg=
b(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">To: &quot;</span><a href=3D"mailto:r=
tg-bfd@ietf.org" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif=
;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a><spa=
n style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;=
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">&quot; &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-=
bfd@ietf.org" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">&gt;</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)=
;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,2=
55)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Subject: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-=
mpls-mib-00</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Message-ID:</span><br style=3D"color=
:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color=
:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 &lt;</span><a href=
=3D"mailto:32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22C29DAC87042C799D@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il" st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22C29DAC87042C799D@EX=
RAD5.ad.rad.co.il</a><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">&gt;</span><br =
style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;ba=
ckground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D=
&quot;us-ascii&quot;</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:ari=
al,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13p=
x;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);fon=
t-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"=
>Hi,</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13p=
x;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);fon=
t-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"=
>1.</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">In section 5.2.2, Example of BFD Ses=
sion configuration for Maintenance Entity of MPLS-TP TE tunnel, the object =
mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessInd</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);fon=
t-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"=
>ex of the ME table in draft-vkst-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib is not mentioned.</spa=
n><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">It would be helpful to explain that =
when a BFD session with bfdMplsSessMapType=3Dmep(6) is created in the bfdSe=
ssTable, the value of the object mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessInd</span><span=
 style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;b=
ackground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">ex should be updated with the BFD session=
 index.</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif=
;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>[VM] OK</div><div><br style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span=
 style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;b=
ackground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">2.</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)=
;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,2=
55)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">For the associated bidirectional LSP=
s case there would be two unidirectional MEs that together operate the BFD =
session. To which one of the MEs should the map pointer, bfdMplsSessMapPoin=
ter, point?</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I think it may point to either one o=
f the unidirectional MEs i.e. make it implementation specific, but this sho=
uld be described in the MIB.</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-fa=
mily:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[VM] This draft suggests to map each ME of LSP/PW entry with the BFD sessio=
n entry, for associated bidirectional case, having an BFD session entry to =
point to either one of the unidirectional ME is purely implementation speci=
fic, IMO, nothing needs to be described.</div>
<div><br style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style=3D"color:r=
gb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:r=
gb(255,255,255)">3.</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:aria=
l,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The term &quot;session mode&quot; in=
 RFC6428 refers to coordinated operation vs. independent operation. However=
 the current object bfdMplsSessMode sets the BFD functionality to cc(1) or =
cv(2). Suggest to rename the object to bfdMplsSessFunction.</span></div>
<div>[VM] IMO,MIB object for coordinated &amp; independent session mode ope=
ration is not required as we can infer it from bfd.MinRxInterval value 0.</=
div><div><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margi=
n-bottom:0px">
bfdMplsSessMode denotes the BFD message format (CC/CV) to be carried in the=
 BFD control packet, IMO this MIB object should be retained.</pre><pre clas=
s=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">if t=
his MIB object name does not convey the right meaning, we might need to cho=
ose appropriate MIB object name.</pre>
<br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13p=
x;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);fon=
t-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"=
>4.</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">There&#39;s a need to configure what=
 is the consequent action upon mis-connectivity defect and LOC defect. Poss=
ible values: alarm only, alarm and block data.</span><br style=3D"color:rgb=
(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb=
(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Separate configuration for mis-conne=
ctivity and for LOC. Default value for mis-connectivity is alarm and block =
data. Default value for LOC is alarm only.</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,=
34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255=
,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Maybe a common behavior for all BFD =
sessions is sufficient. In this case define two scalar objects.</span><br s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[VM] OK</div><div><br style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;backg=
round-color:rgb(255,255,255)">5.</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);fon=
t-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"=
>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Suggest to add counters for received=
 and transmitted CC and CV packets. Need separate counters for CC and CV.</=
span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[VM] OK<br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34=
);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,=
255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Regards,</span><br style=3D"color:rg=
b(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255)">
<br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13p=
x;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);fon=
t-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"=
>Muly</span>
</div></div>

--14dae9cdc47d18c3f004c5141d6d--

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Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
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Working Group and authors;

draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework - the wg chair are nearly ready
to request publication for this draft, but before we do so we need
to make an IPR poll

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
has been received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


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Cc: draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@tools.ietf.org, MPLS-TP ad hoc team <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>
Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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Working Group and authors;

draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection - this document is nearly ready to
be polled to see if we have support to make it a working group document.

Before this poll, we would like to check whether there is IPR on
the document that needs to be disclosed.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
has been received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


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From: Yaacov Weingarten <wyaacov@gmail.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@tools.ietf.org, MPLS-TP ad hoc team <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>
Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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I know of no related IPR

yaacov

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working Group and authors;
>
> draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-**protection - this document is nearly ready to
> be polled to see if we have support to make it a working group document.
>
> Before this poll, we would like to check whether there is IPR on
> the document that needs to be disclosed.
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-**protection?
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I know of no related IPR<div><br></div><div>yaacov<br><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Loa Andersson =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi=
.nu</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Working Group and authors;<br>
<br>
draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-<u></u>protection - this document is nearly ready to=
<br>
be polled to see if we have support to make it a working group document.<br=
>
<br>
Before this poll, we would like to check whether there is IPR on<br>
the document that needs to be disclosed.<br>
<br>
Are you aware of any IPR that applies to<br>
draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-<u></u>protection?<br>
<br>
If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules<br>
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<br>
<br>
If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to<br>
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant<br>
IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response<br>
has been received from each author and contributor.<br>
<br>
If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or<br>
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any<br=
>
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<br>
<br>
Thanks, Loa<br>
(as MPLS WG co-chair)<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 email: <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">loa.andersson@eri=
csson.com</a><br>
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:=
loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
Ericsson Inc =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: <a h=
ref=3D"tel:%2B46%2010%20717%2052%2013" value=3D"+46107175213" target=3D"_bl=
ank">+46 10 717 52 13</a><br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B46%20767%2072%2092%2013" value=3D"+467677=
29213" target=3D"_blank">+46 767 72 92 13</a><br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--00235452f82444b0fd04c5177074--

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From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" <eosborne@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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No IPR on my side.




eric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:35 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: MPLS-TP ad hoc team; draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@tools.ietf.org=
;
> Martin Vigoureux
> Subject: IPR poll on draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
>=20
> Working Group and authors;
>=20
> draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection - this document is nearly ready to
> be polled to see if we have support to make it a working group document.
>=20
> Before this poll, we would like to check whether there is IPR on
> the document that needs to be disclosed.
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13


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From: "Luyuan Fang (lufang)" <lufang@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "MPLS-TP ad hoc team" <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
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Cc: "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
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No IPR I'm aware of.
Luyuan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Loa Andersson
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:26 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team
> Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> chairs@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
>=20
> Working Group and authors;
>=20
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework - the wg chair are nearly ready
> to request publication for this draft, but before we do so we need
> to make an IPR poll
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of
> any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From rfgraveman@gmail.com  Wed Jul 18 04:18:14 2012
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
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> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework?

No.

Richard Graveman

From loa@pi.nu  Wed Jul 18 11:21:18 2012
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Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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Working group,

this is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection-00
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

The poll ends August 3r, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


From rcallon@juniper.net  Wed Jul 18 13:02:01 2012
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From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
To: "'mpls@ietf.org'" <mpls@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:01:45 -0400
Thread-Topic: Continuation of the MPLS WG Review Team
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Subject: [mpls] Continuation of the MPLS WG Review Team
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Earlier we announced that we were trying an experiment with a review team i=
n order to help the chairs in review of documents, particularly documents w=
aiting to be considered for adoption as MPLS WG documents. Originally the e=
xperiment was scheduled to run through the IETF in Vancouver. The original =
email announcing this is included below.=20

The WG chairs have found the reviews to be quite useful. We are therefore e=
xtending the review team indefinitely.

In terms of how this fits into the IETF process: The MPLS review team is he=
lping the WG chairs do their job better. As such the review team reports to=
 the MPLS chairs and serve at the discretion of the MPLS chairs. Any commen=
ts on how the review team is doing may be sent directly to the MPLS WG chai=
rs.=20

Thanks, Ross, George and Loa=09
(as MPLS WG co-chairs)

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa=
 Andersson
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 12:32 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] The MPLS WG Review Team

Working Group,

The working group chairs have discussed the comparatively high
number of drafts on queue to become working groups drafts, and decided
that we need help in evaluating drafts before we poll them to become
working documents.

We have asked some of the more active and experienced working group
members to be part of a Review Team. Each member will review some
documents before the Vancouver meeting. The review team will be
set up as an experiment through the Vancouver meeting and after
evaluation, the chairs will decide whether the experiment will be
made permanent.

The reviewers will be asked comment on whether the document is coherent,
if is it useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational
networks), and is the document technically sound?

Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
secretary, and be CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary,
comments may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.

Thanks, George, Loa, and Ross
WG co-chairs

--=20


From sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com  Wed Jul 18 17:25:11 2012
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From: Sriganesh Kini <sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com>
To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "eosborne@cisco.com" <eosborne@cisco.com>, Nic Leymann <N.Leymann@telekom.de>
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Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:25:54 -0400
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "Bhatia, Manav \(Manav\)" <manav.bhatia@alcatel-lucent.com>, "lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn" <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
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Hi Manav and other authors,

Thanks for the additional pointers that you sent to help understand the dra=
ft. It certainly helped.

However before I make a detailed review, I wanted to better understand the =
motivation of this draft. If I understood correctly, the HSMP LSP is co-rou=
ting unicast traffic from PE-x to PE-y with multicast traffic in the revers=
e direction i.e, PE-y to PE-x. However these are independent services and w=
ill have different TE characteristics. I don't see how co-routing that traf=
fic helps to solve the TE problem, when that is the primary requirement of =
the network design. In fact it may make it even harder.

I agree that some labels entries may be saved by having a MP2P construct fo=
r the unicast traffic. However note that even for unicast traffic the TE ch=
aracteristics for traffic from PE-x to PE-y can be different than traffic f=
rom PE-z to PE-y. An MP2P LSP is less likely to provide a solution for that=
 problem and when it additionally gets constrained to be co-routed with ano=
ther P2MP LSP that is satisfying TE requirements of another service then it=
 is even less likely to do so.

Another possible advantage of HSMP seems to be that there is some saving in=
 signaling since forward and reverse direction labels are signaled at the s=
ame time. However IMO these savings are not big enough. At least not big en=
ough that independent services must be constrained to be co-routed.

Note that I am not saying that VPLS does not have problems, nor am I saying=
 that P2MP LSPs should not be used in VPLS. My primary question is about th=
e motivation for the co-routing when TE is a requirement and the associated=
 problems I described above for HSMP.

Let me know if I have understood anything incorrectly.

Thanks
- Sri
________________________________
From: Ross Callon [rcallon@juniper.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:59 AM
To: Sriganesh Kini; eosborne@cisco.com; Nic Leymann
Cc: Loa Andersson; George Swallow (swallow); Ross Callon; Martin Vigoureux;=
 lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn; frederic.jounay@orange.ch; Bhatia, Manav (Manav)
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp

Sriganesh, Eric, Nic;

You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp

Note to authors: You have been CC=92d on this email so that you can know th=
at
this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.

Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
(ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the
document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=92t have t=
o
be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).

Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,
and CC=92d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
privately to only the WG chairs.

Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to the IETF
meeting in Vancouver)?

Thanks, Ross
(as MPLS WG chair)


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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com  Wed Jul 18 19:23:22 2012
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:24:01 -0400
Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group las call on draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt
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Hi Mach,
You're most welcome.
Couple of notes in-line and tagged by GIM>>.

        Regards,
                Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Mach Chen [mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:23 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: re: [mpls] working group las call on draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-s=
pecified-lsp-ping-05.txt


Hi Greg,

Many thanks for your comments!

Please see my reply inline...

Best regards,
Mach

>
[snip]
> *       Section 3.2 "The Reply Path (RP) TLV is optionally included in
> an echo request message". Would the following be more accurate "If the
> Reply Via Specified Path mode requested, the Reply Path (RP) TLV must
> be included in an echo reply message".

OK. How about "The Reply Path (RP) TLV is an optional TLV, if the Reply Via=
 Specified Path mode requested, the Reply Path (RP) TLV MUST be included in=
 an echo request message."
GIM>> Works well. Can it besplit into two sentences "The Reply Path (RP) TL=
V is an optional TLV. If the Reply via Specified Path mode requested, the R=
eply Path (RP) TLV MUST be included in an echo request message." (I was sug=
gested not to capitalize "via").

[snip]
> *       Section 3.2 lists Reply Path return codes but I don't see how
> these are administered. The field is 2 octets length and only eight
> values being defined in the document. How remaining 65528 values
> partitioned and assigned? And I'd suggest to present defined values as
> u_int16, e.g. 0x0000, 0x0001, etc.

OK, and will add text to describe the remaining range (e.g., 0x0008-0xffff =
-- Reserved for future extensions).
GIM>> Would you consider a request to IANA to create a new registry to admi=
nister allocation?

> *       Section 6.2 AFAIK, values from Vendor Private Use, according
> to RFC 4379, as to common practice, MUST NOT be allocated. I think it
> would be better to seek allocation for new sub-TLVs from IANA's
> Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) Ping
> Parameters registry for TLVs and sub-TLVs.

There are two registries: one is for Target FEC Stack TLV and it sub-TLVs, =
which is defined in RFC4379 and this draft will not define new rules to it =
and require any allocation from it. For the Reply Path TLV and its sub-TLVs=
, this draft requires to assign a new registry for TLVs and sub-TLVs. They =
are totally different registries.

The range of new registry defined in this draft is divided into two parts: =
range of 31744-32767 is a normal "Standard action" range for Reply Path TLV=
 and its sub-TLVs, the rest MUST be kept as the same as the registry of Tar=
get FEC Stack TLV. This is because, as explained in the draft, the Reply Pa=
th TLV is designed to share all existing and new future defined sub-TLVs of=
 Target FEC Stack TLV, that means the part overlaps with the "Standard Acti=
on" and "Specification Required" ranges of Target FEC Stack TLV and sub-TLV=
s registry cannot be allocated to the new defined sub-TLVs of Reply Path TL=
V, otherwise, allocation confliction cannot be avoided. So this draft intro=
duces a "tricky" solution, it defines the range of 31744-32767 ( this range=
 for Target FEC Stack TLV belongs to Vender Private range and will be alloc=
ated to any standard and specification required extensions) as the normal r=
ange, thus avoid the potential allocation conflicting.

Hope this makes it clearer.
GIM>> Thank you for detailed explanation. If you decide to follow with the =
proposed schema, then you need to specify how you'd like Type space partiti=
oned and administered for new sub-TLV registry. E.g., "0-31743 - Unavailabl=
e; 31744-32767 - Standards Action; 32768-64511 - Unavailable; 64512-65535 -=
 Standards Action".
But I think that you might re-use sub-TLVs under new TLV. You grandfather s=
ub-TLVs from Target FEC TLV list that you need, e.g. FEC 129. Create a buff=
er for future expansion of the Target FEC TLV and allocate yours. For the m=
ost safety from overlapping might be to allocate new IDs from 32768-49161 r=
ange.

Best regards,
Mach

>
>         Regards,
>                 Greg
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: working group las call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt
> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 17:04:06 +0200
> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> To: mpls@ietf.org <mpls@ietf.org>
> CC: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,
> draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org
> <draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org>,
> Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
>
> Working Group,
>
> this is to start a working group last call on
>
> draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt
>
> Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> This working group last call July 23, 2012.
>
> Please note that there is an IPR disclosure against this draft.
>
> /Loa
> for the MPLS working group co-chairs
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email:
> loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager
> loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52
> 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92
> 13
>
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email:
> loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager
> loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52
> 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92
> 13
>
>
>
>


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<div>Hi Mach,</div>
<div>You're most welcome.</div>
<div>Couple of notes in-line and tagged by GIM&gt;&gt;.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Mach Chen [<a href=3D"mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com"><font color=
=3D"#0000FF"><u>mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com</u></font></a>] </div>
<div>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:23 AM</div>
<div>To: Gregory Mirsky</div>
<div>Cc: mpls@ietf.org</div>
<div>Subject: re: [mpls] working group las call on draft-ietf-mpls-return-p=
ath-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Hi Greg,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Many thanks for your comments!</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Please see my reply inline...</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Mach</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>[snip]</div>
<div>&gt; &#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Section 3.2 &#8220;Th=
e Reply Path (RP) TLV is optionally included in </div>
<div>&gt; an echo request message&#8221;. Would the following be more accur=
ate &#8220;If the </div>
<div>&gt; Reply Via Specified Path mode requested, the Reply Path (RP) TLV =
must </div>
<div>&gt; be included in an echo reply message&#8221;.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>OK. How about &quot;The Reply Path (RP) TLV is an optional TLV, if the=
 Reply Via Specified Path mode requested, the Reply Path (RP) TLV MUST be i=
ncluded in an echo request message.&quot;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">GIM&gt;&gt; Works well. Can it besplit into tw=
o sentences &quot;The Reply Path (RP) TLV is an optional TLV. If the Reply =
via Specified Path mode requested, the Reply Path (RP) TLV MUST be included=
 in an echo request message.&quot; (I was suggested
not to capitalize &quot;via&quot;).</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>[snip]</div>
<div>&gt; <font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&#8226;</font>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Section 3.2 lists Reply Path return codes but I don&#82=
17;t see how </div>
<div>&gt; these are administered. The field is 2 octets length and only eig=
ht </div>
<div>&gt; values being defined in the document. How remaining 65528 values =
</div>
<div>&gt; partitioned and assigned? And I&#8217;d suggest to present define=
d values as </div>
<div>&gt; u_int16, e.g. 0x0000, 0x0001, etc.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>OK, and will add text to describe the remaining range (e.g., 0x0008-0x=
ffff -- Reserved for future extensions).</div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">GIM&gt;&gt; Would you consider a request to IA=
NA to create a new registry to administer allocation?</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&gt; &#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Section 6.2 AFAIK, va=
lues from Vendor Private Use, according </div>
<div>&gt; to RFC 4379, as to common practice, MUST NOT be allocated. I thin=
k it </div>
<div>&gt; would be better to seek allocation for new sub-TLVs from IANA&#82=
17;s </div>
<div>&gt; Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)=
 Ping </div>
<div>&gt; Parameters registry for TLVs and sub-TLVs.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>There are two registries: one is for Target FEC Stack TLV and it sub-T=
LVs, which is defined in RFC4379 and this draft will not define new rules t=
o it and require any allocation from it. For the Reply Path TLV and its sub=
-TLVs, this draft requires to assign
a new registry for TLVs and sub-TLVs. They are totally different registries=
. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>The range of new registry defined in this draft is divided into two pa=
rts: range of 31744-32767 is a normal &quot;Standard action&quot; range for=
 Reply Path TLV and its sub-TLVs, the rest MUST be kept as the same as the =
registry of Target FEC Stack TLV. This is
because, as explained in the draft, the Reply Path TLV is designed to share=
 all existing and new future defined sub-TLVs of Target FEC Stack TLV, that=
 means the part overlaps with the &quot;Standard Action&quot; and &quot;Spe=
cification Required&quot; ranges of Target FEC Stack
TLV and sub-TLVs registry cannot be allocated to the new defined sub-TLVs o=
f Reply Path TLV, otherwise, allocation confliction cannot be avoided. So t=
his draft introduces a &quot;tricky&quot; solution, it defines the range of=
 31744-32767 ( this range for Target FEC Stack
TLV belongs to Vender Private range and will be allocated to any standard a=
nd specification required extensions) as the normal range, thus avoid the p=
otential allocation conflicting.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Hope this makes it clearer. </div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for detailed explanation=
. If you decide to follow with the proposed schema, then you need to specif=
y how you'd like Type space partitioned and administered for new sub-TLV re=
gistry. E.g., &quot;0-31743 - Unavailable; 31744-32767
- Standards Action; 32768-64511 - Unavailable; 64512-65535 - Standards Acti=
on&quot;.</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">But I think that you might re-use sub-TLVs und=
er new TLV. You grandfather sub-TLVs from Target FEC TLV list that you need=
, e.g. FEC 129. Create a buffer for future expansion of the Target FEC TLV =
and allocate yours. For the most safety
from overlapping might be to allocate new IDs from 32768-49161 range.</font=
></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Mach</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</div>
<div>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; -------- Original Message --------</div>
<div>&gt; Subject: working group las call on</div>
<div>&gt; draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt</div>
<div>&gt; Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 17:04:06 &#43;0200</div>
<div>&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;</div>
<div>&gt; To: mpls@ietf.org &lt;mpls@ietf.org&gt;</div>
<div>&gt; CC: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org &lt;mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org&gt;=
, </div>
<div>&gt; draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org</di=
v>
<div>&gt; &lt;draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org=
&gt;, </div>
<div>&gt; Martin Vigoureux &lt;martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;</div=
>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; Working Group,</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; this is to start a working group last call on</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.=
org).</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; This working group last call July 23, 2012.</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; Please note that there is an IPR disclosure against this draft.</=
div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; /Loa</div>
<div>&gt; for the MPLS working group co-chairs</div>
<div>&gt; --</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email:</div>
<div>&gt; loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </div>
<div>&gt; loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: &#43;46 10 717 52 </div>
<div>&gt; 13</div>
<div>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;46 767 72 92</=
div>
<div>&gt; 13</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; --</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email:</div>
<div>&gt; loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </div>
<div>&gt; loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: &#43;46 10 717 52 </div>
<div>&gt; 13</div>
<div>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;46 767 72 92</=
div>
<div>&gt; 13</div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt; </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</font>
</body>
</html>

--_000_FE60A4E52763E84B935532D7D9294FF137D74E6C83EUSAACMS0715e_--

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From: "Yu, Henry" <henry.yu@twtelecom.com>
To: "loa@pi.nu" <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
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No IPR issues here.

Thanks,

Henry

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mplsbounceslist@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Loa Andersson
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:26 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team
Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools=
.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework

Working Group and authors;

draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework - the wg chair are nearly ready
to request publication for this draft, but before we do so we need
to make an IPR poll

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
has been received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)

--


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls



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From lei.wang@limenetworks.no  Wed Jul 18 22:35:04 2012
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No, i am not aware of IPR issues.

Best regards, Lei
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mplsbounceslist@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=
 Loa Andersson
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:26 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team
> Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tool=
s.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
>=20
> Working Group and authors;
>=20
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework - the wg chair are nearly ready
> to request publication for this draft, but before we do so we need
> to make an IPR poll
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>=20
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20

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<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div><br></div><div>No, i am no=
t aware of IPR issues.<br><br>Best regards, Lei</div><blockquote type=3D"cit=
e"><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><br></font><span>=
</span><br><span></span><br><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br><span=
>From: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a> [m=
ailto:mplsbounceslist@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson</span><br><span>S=
ent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:26 AM</span><br><span>To: <a href=3D"mailto:=
mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; MPLS-TP ad hoc team</span><br><span>Cc: <a=
 href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org">draft-=
ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls-c=
hairs@tools.ietf.org">mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a></span><br><span>Subject=
: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework</span><br><span><=
/span><br><span>Working Group and authors;</span><br><span></span><br><span>=
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework - the wg chair are nearly ready</span>=
<br><span>to request publication for this draft, but before we do so we need=
</span><br><span>to make an IPR poll</span><br><span></span><br><span>Are yo=
u aware of any IPR that applies to</span><br><span>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-securi=
ty-framework?</span><br><span></span><br><span>If so, has this IPR been disc=
losed in compliance with IETF IPR rules</span><br><span>(see RFCs 3979, 4879=
, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><br><span></span><br><span>If you a=
re listed as a document author or contributor please respond to</span><br><s=
pan>this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant</s=
pan><br><span>IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a r=
esponse</span><br><span>has been received from each author and contributor.<=
/span><br><span></span><br><span>If you are on the MPLS WG email list but ar=
e not listed as an author or</span><br><span>contributor, then please explic=
itly respond only if you are aware of any</span><br><span>IPR that has not y=
et been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</span><br><span></span><br=
><span>Thanks, Loa</span><br><span>(as MPLS WG co-chair)</span><br><span></s=
pan><br><span>-- </span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Loa Ande=
rsson &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;em=
ail: <a href=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com">loa.andersson@ericsson.co=
m</a></span><br><span>Sr Strategy and Standards Manager &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">l=
oa@pi.nu</a></span><br><span>Ericsson Inc &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;phone: +46 10 717 52 13</span><br><s=
pan> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
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pan></span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><=
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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yes/support

yaacov

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working group,
>
> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-**protection-00
> as an MPLS working group document.
>
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> The poll ends August 3r, 2012.
>
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/mpls<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">yes/support<div><br></div><div>yaacov<br><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Loa Andersson <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Working group,<br>
<br>
this is to start a two week poll on adopting<br>
draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-<u></u>protection-00<br>
as an MPLS working group document.<br>
<br>
Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working<br>
group mailing list (<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls=
@ietf.org</a>).<br>
<br>
The poll ends August 3r, 2012.<br>
<br>
/Loa<br>
(mpls wg co-chair)<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 email: <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">loa.andersson@eri=
csson.com</a><br>
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:=
loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
Ericsson Inc =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: <a h=
ref=3D"tel:%2B46%2010%20717%2052%2013" value=3D"+46107175213" target=3D"_bl=
ank">+46 10 717 52 13</a><br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B46%20767%2072%2092%2013" value=3D"+467677=
29213" target=3D"_blank">+46 767 72 92 13</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: Jie Dong <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Support.=20

Thanks,
Jie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Loa Andersson
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:38 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;
> draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for
> draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
>=20
> Working group,
>=20
> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
> as an MPLS working group document.
>=20
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>=20
> The poll ends July 31st, 2012.
>=20
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email:
> loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Thu Jul 19 00:42:38 2012
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
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I am not aware of any related IPR. Ben

On 19 Jul 2012, at 06:36, Lei Wang <lei.wang@limenetworks.no> wrote:

>=20
> No, i am not aware of IPR issues.
>=20
> Best regards, Lei
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mplsbounceslist@ietf.org] On Behalf O=
f Loa Andersson
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:26 AM
>> To: mpls@ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team
>> Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@too=
ls.ietf.org
>> Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
>>=20
>> Working Group and authors;
>>=20
>> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework - the wg chair are nearly ready
>> to request publication for this draft, but before we do so we need
>> to make an IPR poll
>>=20
>> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
>> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework?
>>=20
>> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>>=20
>> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
>> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
>> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
>> has been received from each author and contributor.
>>=20
>> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>=20
>> Thanks, Loa
>> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>>=20
>> --=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
>> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
>> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>I am not aware of any rela=
ted IPR. Ben<br><br>On 19 Jul 2012, at 06:36, Lei Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lei.wang@limenetworks.no">lei.wang@limenetworks.no</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></=
div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div><br></div><div>No, i am n=
ot aware of IPR issues.<br><br>Best regards, Lei</div><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><br></font><span=
></span><br><span></span><br><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br><spa=
n>From: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a> [=
mailto:mplsbounceslist@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson</span><br><span>=
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:26 AM</span><br><span>To: <a href=3D"mailto=
:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; MPLS-TP ad hoc team</span><br><span>Cc: <=
a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org">draft=
-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework@tools.ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls-=
chairs@tools.ietf.org">mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a></span><br><span>Subjec=
t: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework</span><br><span>=
</span><br><span>Working Group and authors;</span><br><span></span><br><span=
>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework - the wg chair are nearly ready</span=
><br><span>to request publication for this draft, but before we do so we nee=
d</span><br><span>to make an IPR poll</span><br><span></span><br><span>Are y=
ou aware of any IPR that applies to</span><br><span>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-secur=
ity-framework?</span><br><span></span><br><span>If so, has this IPR been dis=
closed in compliance with IETF IPR rules</span><br><span>(see RFCs 3979, 487=
9, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><br><span></span><br><span>If you a=
re listed as a document author or contributor please respond to</span><br><s=
pan>this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant</s=
pan><br><span>IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a r=
esponse</span><br><span>has been received from each author and contributor.<=
/span><br><span></span><br><span>If you are on the MPLS WG email list but ar=
e not listed as an author or</span><br><span>contributor, then please explic=
itly respond only if you are aware of any</span><br><span>IPR that has not y=
et been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</span><br><span></span><br=
><span>Thanks, Loa</span><br><span>(as MPLS WG co-chair)</span><br><span></s=
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From: Lizhong Jin<lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:44:13 +0800
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments on draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
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Hi Eric,
Thank you for this review. See inline below for my comments.

Regards
Lizhong
 

"Eric Osborne (eosborne)" <eosborne@cisco.com> wrote 2012/07/16 23:49:50:

> Overall, I think this is a solid draft.  It presents a pair of 
> problems and the solution to those problems.  I'd like to see some 
> input from the larger community as to whether the two problems the 
> draft presents as prevalent in operational networks.  I'm also 
> curious whether there are any other uses cases that may take 
> advantage of HSMP.  Is there an analog in non-TE mcast that could be
> addressed with HSMP?
[Lizhong] hope draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp-05 (
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp-05) helps.
> 
> Assuming the use cases are valid, I can see it eventually being 
> adopted as a WG document.
> 
> I have a few comments:
> 
> - Section 1.1 talks about time synchronization.  I'm not a timing 
> expert, so I'm just going off of what I can infer from the document.The 
text 
> 
> "This is possible because of the link delay calculation performed 
> locally by each node, which enables it to calculate the propagation 
> delay over the path.  This scenario permits that the same PTP Sync 
> messages would be sent by the PTP master to all the PTP slaves" 
> 
> implies that each hop in an LSP used for timing distribution would 
> need to examine the packet, modify it, and send it on.  Strictly 
> speaking this is outside the scope of this draft, but it seems a 
> heck of a thing to just assume, since it is an important 
> prerequisite for this particular use case.
> 
> Manav, you're on draft-davari-tictoc-1588overmpls as well as this 
> draft.  Do you anticipate that a HSMP LSP would use methods from 
> that draft to distribute timing?  If the methods in draft-davari-
> tictoc-1588overmpls were not standardized, would the HSMP draft 
> still be able to solve the timing distribution use case?
[Lizhong] See Manav's reply.

> 
> 
> -  The draft's approach merges the return traffic from the leaves. 
> Using Figure 1 (p. 5) as an example, node B will assign the same 
> UPSTREAM_LABEL for all flows from all leaves.  This means we can't 
> use this approach for MPLS-TP.  It seems that the problems 
> identified in this draft would be relevant to those who want to use 
> a TP-style approach for their LSPs.  I know this is not an MPLS-TP 
> draft, but it would be nice to solve the p2mp+return problem once 
> for both traditional TE and for TP.  It would be nice to have a way 
> for an upstream node to give out different upstream labels per 
> downstream hop.  I realize this increases the ILM requirements on 
> the HSMP headend, but I fear that without this ability we'll have to
> solve the problem twice.
[Lizhong] if WG agree, we could add above option. Hope to see more 
comments about this.

> 
> 
> - The example on p. 11 is hard to follow.  At step 2, it looks like 
> PE1 builds a p2p LSP to PE3 which is then converted to a p2mp LSP? 
> If the intent is to build a p2mp LSP to PE3, it should probably say 
> something like "PE1 signals a P2MP LSP with PE3 as the only leaf" or
> something. 
[Lizhong] the intention is to compute a P2P path to PE3 which is a CSPF 
behavior, and use this path information to build P2MP LSP (same as 
RFC4875). We will make this more clear. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eric
> 
> 

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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi Eric,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thank you for this review. See inline
below for my comments.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Regards</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Lizhong</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp;</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&quot;Eric Osborne (eosborne)&quot;
&lt;eosborne@cisco.com&gt; wrote 2012/07/16 23:49:50:<br>
<br>
&gt; Overall, I think this is a solid draft. &nbsp;It presents a pair of
<br>
&gt; problems and the solution to those problems. &nbsp;I'd like to see
some <br>
&gt; input from the larger community as to whether the two problems the
<br>
&gt; draft presents as prevalent in operational networks. &nbsp;I'm also
<br>
&gt; curious whether there are any other uses cases that may take <br>
&gt; advantage of HSMP. &nbsp;Is there an analog in non-TE mcast that could
be<br>
&gt; addressed with HSMP?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">[Lizhong] hope draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp-05
(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp-05) helps.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Assuming the use cases are valid, I can see it eventually being <br>
&gt; adopted as a WG document.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I have a few comments:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; - Section 1.1 talks about time synchronization. &nbsp;I'm not a timing
<br>
&gt; expert, so I'm just going off of what I can infer from the document.The
text <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &quot;This is possible because of the link delay calculation performed
<br>
&gt; locally by each node, which enables it to calculate the propagation
<br>
&gt; delay over the path. &nbsp;This scenario permits that the same PTP
Sync <br>
&gt; messages would be sent by the PTP master to all the PTP slaves&quot;
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; implies that each hop in an LSP used for timing distribution would
<br>
&gt; need to examine the packet, modify it, and send it on. &nbsp;Strictly
<br>
&gt; speaking this is outside the scope of this draft, but it seems a <br>
&gt; heck of a thing to just assume, since it is an important <br>
&gt; prerequisite for this particular use case.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Manav, you're on draft-davari-tictoc-1588overmpls as well as this
<br>
&gt; draft. &nbsp;Do you anticipate that a HSMP LSP would use methods from
<br>
&gt; that draft to distribute timing? &nbsp;If the methods in draft-davari-<br>
&gt; tictoc-1588overmpls were not standardized, would the HSMP draft <br>
&gt; still be able to solve the timing distribution use case?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">[Lizhong] See Manav's reply.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; - &nbsp;The draft's approach merges the return traffic from the leaves.
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; Using Figure 1 (p. 5) as an example, node B will assign the same <br>
&gt; UPSTREAM_LABEL for all flows from all leaves. &nbsp;This means we
can't <br>
&gt; use this approach for MPLS-TP. &nbsp;It seems that the problems <br>
&gt; identified in this draft would be relevant to those who want to use
<br>
&gt; a TP-style approach for their LSPs. &nbsp;I know this is not an MPLS-TP
<br>
&gt; draft, but it would be nice to solve the p2mp+return problem once
<br>
&gt; for both traditional TE and for TP. &nbsp;It would be nice to have
a way <br>
&gt; for an upstream node to give out different upstream labels per <br>
&gt; downstream hop. &nbsp;I realize this increases the ILM requirements
on <br>
&gt; the HSMP headend, but I fear that without this ability we'll have
to<br>
&gt; solve the problem twice.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">[Lizhong] if WG agree, we could add
above option. Hope to see more comments about this.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; - The example on p. 11 is hard to follow. &nbsp;At step 2, it looks
like <br>
&gt; PE1 builds a p2p LSP to PE3 which is then converted to a p2mp LSP?
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; If the intent is to build a p2mp LSP to PE3, it should probably say
<br>
&gt; something like &quot;PE1 signals a P2MP LSP with PE3 as the only leaf&quot;
or<br>
&gt; something. &nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">[Lizhong] the intention is to compute
a P2P path to PE3 which is a CSPF behavior, and use this path information
to build P2MP LSP (same as RFC4875). We will make this more clear. Thank
you.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; eric<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
</font>
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From: Muly Ilan <muly_i@rad.com>
To: venkatesan mahalingam <venkatflex@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00
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Hi Venkat.,

Regarding the 3rd issue, of "session mode". I haven't requested to define a=
 MIB object for the coordinated/independent modes.
I merely suggested to rename "bfdMplsSessMode" to "bfdMplsSessFunction" to =
avoid misunderstandings.

Muly

From: venkatesan mahalingam [mailto:venkatflex@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:41 AM
To: Muly Ilan
Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org; mpls; Kannan KV Sampath; Sam Aldrin; Thomas Nadeau
Subject: Re: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00


Thanks Muly for your comments, please see my answers inlined with the tag [=
VM].

Cheers,
Venkat.

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:08:32 +0000
From: Muly Ilan <muly_i@rad.com<mailto:muly_i@rad.com>>
To: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rt=
g-bfd@ietf.org>>
Subject: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"

Hi,

1.
In section 5.2.2, Example of BFD Session configuration for Maintenance Enti=
ty of MPLS-TP TE tunnel, the object mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex of the=
 ME table in draft-vkst-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib is not mentioned.
It would be helpful to explain that when a BFD session with bfdMplsSessMapT=
ype=3Dmep(6) is created in the bfdSessTable, the value of the object mplsOa=
mIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex should be updated with the BFD session index.

[VM] OK

2.
For the associated bidirectional LSPs case there would be two unidirectiona=
l MEs that together operate the BFD session. To which one of the MEs should=
 the map pointer, bfdMplsSessMapPointer, point?
I think it may point to either one of the unidirectional MEs i.e. make it i=
mplementation specific, but this should be described in the MIB.
[VM] This draft suggests to map each ME of LSP/PW entry with the BFD sessio=
n entry, for associated bidirectional case, having an BFD session entry to =
point to either one of the unidirectional ME is purely implementation speci=
fic, IMO, nothing needs to be described.

3.
The term "session mode" in RFC6428 refers to coordinated operation vs. inde=
pendent operation. However the current object bfdMplsSessMode sets the BFD =
functionality to cc(1) or cv(2). Suggest to rename the object to bfdMplsSes=
sFunction.
[VM] IMO,MIB object for coordinated & independent session mode operation is=
 not required as we can infer it from bfd.MinRxInterval value 0.



bfdMplsSessMode denotes the BFD message format (CC/CV) to be carried in the=
 BFD control packet, IMO this MIB object should be retained.

if this MIB object name does not convey the right meaning, we might need to=
 choose appropriate MIB object name.

4.
There's a need to configure what is the consequent action upon mis-connecti=
vity defect and LOC defect. Possible values: alarm only, alarm and block da=
ta.
Separate configuration for mis-connectivity and for LOC. Default value for =
mis-connectivity is alarm and block data. Default value for LOC is alarm on=
ly.
Maybe a common behavior for all BFD sessions is sufficient. In this case de=
fine two scalar objects.
[VM] OK

5.
Suggest to add counters for received and transmitted CC and CV packets. Nee=
d separate counters for CC and CV.
[VM] OK

Regards,

Muly

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Venkat.,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regarding the 3<sup>rd</s=
up> issue, of &#8220;session mode&#8221;. I haven&#8217;t requested to defi=
ne a MIB object for the coordinated/independent modes.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I merely suggested to ren=
ame &#8220;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">bfdMplsSessMode=
&#8221; to &#8220;bfdMplsSessFunction&#8221;
 to avoid misunderstandings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">Muly</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> venkates=
an mahalingam [mailto:venkatflex@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Muly Ilan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rtg-bfd@ietf.org; mpls; Kannan KV Sampath; Sam Aldrin; Thomas Na=
deau<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks Muly for your comments, please see my answers=
 inlined with the tag [VM].<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Venkat.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">Date: Mon,=
 16 Jul 2012 14:08:32 &#43;0000</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">From: Muly Ilan &lt;</span></span><a href=
=3D"mailto:muly_i@rad.com"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1155CC;background:white">muly_i=
@rad.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">&gt;</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#222222"><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">To: &quot;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:=
rtg-bfd@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1155CC;background:white">rtg-bfd@ietf.or=
g</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">&quot;
 &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1155CC;bac=
kground:white">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;backgroun=
d:white">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Subject: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-m=
ib-00</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Message-ID:</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;</span></s=
pan><a href=3D"mailto:32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22C29DAC87042C799D@EXRAD5.ad.ra=
d.co.il"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1155CC;background:white">32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22=
C29DAC87042C799D@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;back=
ground:white">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D&quot;=
us-ascii&quot;</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Hi,</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"background:white">1.</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">In section 5.2.2, Example of BFD Session c=
onfiguration for Maintenance Entity of MPLS-TP TE tunnel, the object mplsOa=
mIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex of the ME table in draft-vkst-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib=
 is not mentioned.</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">It would be helpful to explain that when a=
 BFD session with bfdMplsSessMapType=3Dmep(6) is created in the bfdSessTabl=
e, the value of the object mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex should be updat=
ed with the BFD session index.</span><br>
</span><br>
[VM] OK<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">2.</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"=
><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">For the associated bidirectional LSPs case=
 there would be two unidirectional MEs that together operate the BFD sessio=
n. To which one of the MEs should the map pointer, bfdMplsSessMapPointer, p=
oint?</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">I think it may point to either one of the =
unidirectional MEs i.e. make it implementation specific, but this should be=
 described in the MIB.</span><br>
</span>[VM] This draft suggests to map each ME of LSP/PW entry with the BFD=
 session entry, for associated bidirectional case, having an BFD session en=
try to point to either one of the unidirectional ME is purely implementatio=
n specific, IMO, nothing needs to
 be described.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">3.</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"=
><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">The term &quot;session mode&quot; in RFC64=
28 refers to coordinated operation vs. independent operation. However the c=
urrent object bfdMplsSessMode sets the BFD functionality to cc(1) or cv(2).=
 Suggest to rename the object to bfdMplsSessFunction.</span></span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[VM] IMO,MIB object for coordinated &amp; independen=
t session mode operation is not required as we can infer it from bfd.MinRxI=
nterval value 0.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">bfdMplsSessMode denotes the BFD messa=
ge format (CC/CV) to be carried in the BFD control packet, IMO this MIB obj=
ect should be retained.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">if this MIB object name does not conv=
ey the right meaning, we might need to choose appropriate MIB object name.<=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">4.</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">There's a need to configure what is the co=
nsequent action upon mis-connectivity defect and LOC defect. Possible value=
s: alarm only, alarm and block data.</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Separate configuration for mis-connectivit=
y and for LOC. Default value for mis-connectivity is alarm and block data. =
Default value for LOC is alarm only.</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Maybe a common behavior for all BFD sessio=
ns is sufficient. In this case define two scalar objects.</span><br>
</span>[VM] OK<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">5.</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"=
><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Suggest to add counters for received and t=
ransmitted CC and CV packets. Need separate counters for CC and CV.</span><=
br>
</span>[VM] OK<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Regards,</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Muly</span></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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Subject: [mpls] IETF84 - MPLS Sessions - Agenda Uploaded
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Hi,

you can find the agenda here:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/agenda/agenda-84-mpls

Please note that this is a draft agenda. It will be updated.

martin

From loa@pi.nu  Thu Jul 19 04:35:27 2012
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Subject: [mpls] implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label  ???
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Working Group,

we are preparing the request for publication for
draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label, as part of the shepherd write-up
we need to know about existing implementations.

Please send mails to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org) or the
working group chairs to inform us about implementations.

/Loa
(as wg co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

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From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" <eosborne@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "MPLS-TP ad hoc team" <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>, "draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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Support (as author)




eric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:22 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team; draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-
> protection@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
>=20
> Working group,
>=20
> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection-00
> as an MPLS working group document.
>=20
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>=20
> The poll ends August 3r, 2012.
>=20
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13


From agmalis@gmail.com  Thu Jul 19 06:01:58 2012
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 09:02:23 -0400
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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Support (as a non-co-author :-).

Cheers,
Andy

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:52 PM, <zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn> wrote:

>
> Support
>
> Fei
>
> As a co-author
>
>
>  *Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>*
> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  mpls-bounces@ietf.org
>
> 2012-07-19 02:22
>   =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
> "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, MPLS-TP ad hoc team <
> ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>, draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@tools.ietf.or=
g,
> Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "
> mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
> =B3=AD=CB=CD
>   =D6=F7=CC=E2
> [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
>
>
>
>
> Working group,
>
> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection-00
> as an MPLS working group document.
>
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> The poll ends August 3r, 2012.
>
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>

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Support (as a non-co-author :-).<br><br>Cheers,<br>Andy<br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:52 PM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank">zhang.fei3@zte.com=
.cn</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">Support</font>
<br>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">Fei</font>
<br>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">As a co-author</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><table width=3D"100%">
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top">
<td width=3D"36%"><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1"><b>Loa Andersson &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;</b>
</font>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: &nbsp;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</=
a></font>
<p><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">2012-07-19 02:22</font>
</p></td><td width=3D"63%">
<table width=3D"100%">
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
<div align=3D"right"><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=
=CB</font></div>
</td><td><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@=
ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:m=
pls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
MPLS-TP ad hoc team &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int" target=
=3D"_blank">ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ezy-mp=
ls-tp-1ton-protection@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1=
ton-protection@tools.ietf.org</a>,
Martin Vigoureux &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls-chairs@tool=
s.ietf.org</a>&quot;
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls-ch=
airs@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;</font>
</td></tr><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
<div align=3D"right"><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">=B3=AD=CB=CD</fon=
t></div>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
<div align=3D"right"><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">=D6=F7=CC=E2</fon=
t></div>
</td><td><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">[mpls] Poll for WG adoption f=
or draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection</font></td></tr></tbody></table>
<br>
<table>
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
</td><td></td></tr></tbody></table>
<br></td></tr></tbody></table><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font>Working group,<br>
<br>
this is to start a two week poll on adopting<br>
draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection-00<br>
as an MPLS working group document.<br>
<br>
Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working<br>
group mailing list (<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls=
@ietf.org</a>).<br>
<br>
The poll ends August 3r, 2012.<br>
<br>
/Loa<br>
(mpls wg co-chair)<br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Loa Andersson &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">loa.andersson@ericsson.com</a><br>
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
Ericsson Inc &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;phone: <a href=3D"tel:%2B46%2010%20717%2052%2013=
" value=3D"+46107175213" target=3D"_blank">+46 10 717 52 13</a><br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;
&nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"tel:%2B46%20767%2072%2092%2013" value=3D"+467677292=
13" target=3D"_blank">+46 767 72 92 13</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br>

--14dae9340def29e55604c52e65bc--

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From: "Kyung-Yeop Hong (hongk)" <hongk@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "MPLS-TP ad hoc team" <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>, "draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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Support.

KY

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:22 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team; draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@t=
ools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [AHMPLS-TP] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protec=
tion

Working group,

this is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection-00
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

The poll ends August 3r, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)
--=20


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13


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=0A=0A=0ANetwork Working Group                                             =
 X. Fu=0AInternet-Draft                                                  M.=
 Betts=0AIntended status: Standards Track                                 Q=
. Wang=0AExpires: January 20, 2013                                         =
   ZTE=0A                                                              D. M=
cDysan=0A                                                                A.=
 Malis=0A                                                                 V=
erizon=0A                                                               V. =
Manral=0A                                                   Hewlett-Packard=
 Corp.=0A                                                           July 19=
, 2012=0A=0A=0A       RSVP-TE extensions for Loss and Delay Traffic Enginee=
ring=0A               draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-rsvp-te-ext-02=0A=0AAbstra=
ct=0A=0A   With more and more enterprises using cloud based services, the=
=0A   distances between the user and the applications are growing.  For=0A =
  multiple applications such as High Performance Computing and=0A   Electro=
nic Financial markets, the response times are critical as is=0A   packet lo=
ss, while other applications require more throughput.  For=0A   example, fi=
nancial or trading companies are very focused on end-to-=0A   end private p=
ipe line latency optimizations that improve things 2-3=0A   ms.  Latency, j=
itter, loss and SLA (Service Level Agreement) are key=0A   parameters that =
these "high value" customers use to select a private=0A   pipe line provide=
r.  This document extends RSVP-TE protocol to=0A   promote SLA experince of=
 latency and packet loss application.=0A=0AStatus of this Memo=0A=0A   This=
 Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the=0A   provisions o=
f BCP 78 and BCP 79.=0A=0A   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the I=
nternet Engineering=0A   Task Force (IETF).  Note that other groups may als=
o distribute=0A   working documents as Internet-Drafts.  The list of curren=
t Internet-=0A   Drafts is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/.=
=0A=0A   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six mon=
ths=0A   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at a=
ny=0A   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference=0A  =
 material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."=0A=0A   This In=
ternet-Draft will expire on January 20, 2013.=0A=0ACopyright Notice=0A=0A=
=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.              Expires January 20, 2013                [P=
age 1]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft       RSVP-TE for services aware MPLS        =
   July 2012=0A=0A=0A   Copyright (c) 2012 IETF Trust and the persons ident=
ified as the=0A   document authors.  All rights reserved.=0A=0A   This docu=
ment is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal=0A   Provisions Relati=
ng to IETF Documents=0A   (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect =
on the date of=0A   publication of this document.  Please review these docu=
ments=0A   carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with re=
spect=0A   to this document.  Code Components extracted from this document =
must=0A   include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e o=
f=0A   the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as=0A  =
 described in the Simplified BSD License.=0A=0A=0ATable of Contents=0A=0A  =
 1.  Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3=0A  =
   1.1.  Conventions Used in This Document  . . . . . . . . . . . .  4=0A  =
 2.  Performance Accumulation and Verification  . . . . . . . . . .  4=0A  =
   2.1.  New RSVP ADSPEC sub-object . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  4=0A  =
   2.2.  New RSVP SENDER=5FTSPEC sub-object . . . . . . . . . . . . .  6=0A=
     2.3.  New RSVP FLOWSPEC sub-object . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  7=0A=
     2.4.  Signaling Procedures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  8=0A=
   3.  Performance SLA Parameters Conveying . . . . . . . . . . . . .  9=0A=
     3.1.  Performance SLA Parameters ERO sub-object  . . . . . . . . 10=0A=
     3.2.  Signaling Procedure  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14=0A=
   4.  Security Considerations  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14=0A=
   5.  IANA Considerations  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14=0A=
   6.  References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15=0A=
     6.1.  Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15=0A=
     6.2.  Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15=0A=
   Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16=0A=
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.        =
      Expires January 20, 2013                [Page 2]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Dra=
ft       RSVP-TE for services aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=0A1.  In=
troduction=0A=0A   End-to-end service optimization based on latency, jitter=
 and loss is=0A   a key requirement for service provider.  So communicating=
 latency,=0A   jitter and packet loss as traffic engineering performance me=
trics is=0A   a very important requirement.  [LOSS-DELAY-TE-FRAMEWORK] desc=
ribes=0A   the requirement of latency and loss traffic engineering applicat=
ion.=0A   Latency, jitter and loss metrics are sent in IGP protocol as defi=
ned=0A   in [OSPF-TE-EXPRESS-PATH] and [ISIS-TE-EXPRESS-PATH].  [EXPRESS-PA=
TH]=0A   describes how to use these traffic engineering metrics to compute=
=0A   explicit paths at path computation entity.  So source node could=0A  =
 predict end-to-end delay or loss performance before an end-to-end LSP=0A  =
 is established.=0A=0A   In the case of multi-domain (e.g., Inter-AS, Inter=
-Area or Multi-=0A   Layer), a full path of TE LSP can't be or is not deter=
mined at the=0A   ingress node of TE LSP.  This is most likely to arise owi=
ng to TE=0A   visibility limitations.  If not all domains support to commun=
icate=0A   latency, jitter and loss as traffic engineering metric parameter=
s,=0A   one end-to-end optimized path with performance constraint (e.g., le=
ss=0A   than 10 ms) may not be computed by BRPC [RFC5441] in PCE=0A   archi=
tecture.=0A=0A   This document extend RSVP-TE to accumulate (e.g., sum) lat=
ency and=0A   loss information of links and nodes along one LSP across mult=
i-domain=0A   (e.g., Inter-AS, Inter-Area or Multi-Layer) so that end point=
s can=0A   verify whether total amount of latency or loss could meet the=0A=
   agreement between operator and his user.  When RSVP-TE signaling is=0A  =
 used, source node can determine if latency and loss requirement is=0A   me=
t much more rapidly than performing actual end-to-end performance=0A   meas=
urement.  Latency, jitter and loss are part of service/QoS=0A   description=
/characterization and that as such belongs in a flowspec/=0A   tspec/adspec=
.  This document modify IntServ (as represented by=0A   RFC210) to provide =
new parameters.=0A=0A   One end-to-end LSP may go across some Composite Lin=
ks [CL-REQ].=0A   RSVP-TE message needs to carry a indication for selection=
 of=0A   component links based on latecny, jitter or loss constraint.  When=
=0A   one end-to-end LSP traverse a server layer, there will be some=0A   l=
atency, jitter of loss constraint requirements for server layer.  So=0A   R=
SVP-TE message needs to carry a indication for FA selection or FA-=0A   LSP=
 creation.  This document defines a new ERO sub-object to indicate=0A   tha=
t a component links, FA or FA-LSP should meet maximum acceptable=0A   laten=
cy, jitter or loss value.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.              Ex=
pires January 20, 2013                [Page 3]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft      =
 RSVP-TE for services aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=0A1.1.  Conventi=
ons Used in This Document=0A=0A   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIR=
ED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",=0A   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY=
", and "OPTIONAL" in this=0A   document are to be interpreted as described =
in [RFC2119].=0A=0A=0A2.  Performance Accumulation and Verification=0A=0A  =
 Latency, jitter and loss accumulation and verification applies where=0A   =
a full path of multi-domain (e.g., Inter-AS, Inter-Area or Multi-=0A   Laye=
r) TE LSP can't be or is not determined at ingress node of the TE=0A   LSP.=
  This is most likely to arise owing to TE visibility=0A   limitations.  If=
 all domains support to communicate latency, jitter=0A   and loss as traffi=
c engineering metric parameters, one end-to-end=0A   optimized path with pe=
rformance constraint (e.g., less than 10 ms)=0A   could be computed by BRPC=
 [RFC5441] in PCE.  Otherwise, it could use=0A   the mechanism defined in t=
his section to accumulat latency, jitter=0A   and loss along a path which g=
oes across multi-domain.=0A=0A   E2E performance requirement (e.g., latency=
 isn't larger than 10ms)=0A   could be signaled by RSVP-TE (e.g., Path and =
Resv message).=0A   Intermediate nodes could reject the request (Path or Re=
sv message) if=0A   the accumulated latency, jitter or loss is not achievab=
le.  This is=0A   essential in multiple AS use cases, but may not be needed=
 in a single=0A   IGP level/area if the IGP is extended to convey latency, =
jitter and=0A   loss information.=0A=0A   Node latency for a WAN could be i=
gnored or even an average, however=0A   that was not true for the LAN cases=
.  Whether the node latency should=0A   be accumulated or not depends on th=
e implementation.=0A=0A   One domain may need to know that other domains su=
pport performance=0A   accumulation.  It could be discovered in some automa=
tic way.  PCEs in=0A   different domains may play a role here.  It is for f=
urther study.=0A=0A2.1.  New RSVP ADSPEC sub-object=0A=0A   This document d=
efines a new RSVP ADSPEC [RFC2210] sub-object to=0A   support end-to-end ac=
cumulation of latency, jitter or loss.  The new=0A   RSVP ADSPEC sub-object=
 has the following format.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.      =
        Expires January 20, 2013                [Page 4]=0A=0C=0AInternet-D=
raft       RSVP-TE for services aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=0A    =
  0                   1                   2                   3=0A      0 1=
 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1=0A     +-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |        =
Type(IANA)             |           Length              |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |          Ac=
cumulated Estimated Performance Value 1            |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |                =
              ...                              |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |          Accumulate=
d Estimated Performance Value n            |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A=0A                   Figure 1=
: New RSVP ADSPEC sub-Object=0A=0A   o  Type(TBD): It indicates performance=
 accumulation from source to=0A      sink.=0A=0A   o  Length: length of per=
formance accumulation value.=0A=0A   Accumulated Estimated Performance Valu=
e format is defined in the next=0A   picture.=0A=0A     0                  =
 1                   2                   3=0A     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2=
 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     | Value Type  |                =
     Reserved                    |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |                               Val=
ue                           |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A=0A        Figure 2: Format of Accumulated E=
stimated Performance Value=0A=0A   o  Value Type:=0A=0A      *  0: It indic=
ates Performance Accumulation Value is for end-to-=0A         end latency a=
ccumulation along the LSP.=0A=0A      *  1: It indicates Performance Accumu=
lation Value is for end-to-=0A         end jitter accumulation along the LS=
P.=0A=0A      *  2: It indicates Performance Accumulation Value is for end-=
to-=0A         end loss accumulation along the LSP.=0A=0A   o  Value:=0A=0A=
      *  If it is accumulated estimated latency value, it MUST be=0A       =
  quantified in units of micro-seconds and encoded as an float=0A         p=
oint value.=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.              Expires January 20, 2013    =
            [Page 5]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft       RSVP-TE for services awar=
e MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=0A      *  If it is accumulated estimated =
latency variation value, it MUST=0A         be quantified in units of micro=
-seconds and encoded as an float=0A         point value.  Since latecny var=
iation is accumulated non-=0A         linearly, latency variation accumulat=
oin should be in a lower=0A         priority.=0A=0A      *  If it is accumu=
lated estimated loss value, it MUST be=0A         quantified in units of th=
e number of packets per million=0A         packets.  For link loss, the pat=
h loss is not the sum of the=0A         used links' losses.   Instead, the =
path loss percentage is (100=0A         - loss=5FL1)*(100 - loss=5FL2)*...*=
(100 - loss=5FLn), where the links=0A         along the path are L1 to Ln. =
 For example, assume packet loss=0A         is 10% for two hops of a link. =
 The measurements will come to=0A         19% total packet loss.  Because o=
f 10% loss on the first link=0A         only 90% packet reach the second li=
nk where another 10% of 90%=0A         are lost, which is 9% of total packe=
ts.=0A=0A2.2.  New RSVP SENDER=5FTSPEC sub-object=0A=0A   This document def=
ines a new RSVP SENDER=5FTSPEC [RFC2210] sub-object=0A   which indicates en=
d-to-end latecny, jitter or loss performance=0A   requirement.  Intermediat=
e nodes could reject the request (Path or=0A   Resv message) if the accumul=
ated latency, jitter or loss value=0A   exceeds required performance value =
in the SENDER=5FTSPEC sub-object.=0A=0A   If the accumulated latency, jitte=
r or loss is not achievable, there=0A   is no necessary to accumulate laten=
cy, jitter or loss for remaining=0A   domain or nodes.=0A=0A     0         =
          1                   2                   3=0A     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 =
8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |          Type (IANA)=
          |           Length              |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |              Performance=
 Requirement Value 1                  |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |                             =
 ...                              |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |              Performance Require=
ment Value n                  |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A=0A                Figure 3: New RSVP SENDE=
R=5FTSPEC sub-object=0A=0A   The Performance Requirement Value format is de=
fined in the next=0A   picture.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.             =
 Expires January 20, 2013                [Page 6]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft   =
    RSVP-TE for services aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=0A     0     =
              1                   2                   3=0A     0 1 2 3 4 5 =
6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     | Value Type  |   =
                  Reserved                    |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |                     =
       Value                              |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A=0A             Figure 4: Forma=
t of Performance Requirement Value=0A=0A   o  Value Type:=0A=0A      *  0: =
It indicates Performance Value is end-to-end latency=0A         requirement=
.  The accumulated estimated latency value should=0A         not exceed thi=
s value.  It MUST be quantified in units of=0A         micro-seconds and en=
coded as an float point value.=0A=0A      *  1: It indicates Performance Va=
lue is end-to-end jitter=0A         requirement.  The accumulated estimated=
 latency variation value=0A         should not exceed this value.  It MUST =
be quantified in units=0A         of micro-seconds and encoded as an float =
point value.=0A=0A      *  2: It indicateds Performance Value is end-to-end=
 loss=0A         requirement.  The accumulated estimated loss value should =
not=0A         exceed this value.  It MUST be quantified in units of the=0A=
         number of packets per million packets.=0A=0A   o  Value:=0A=0A    =
  *  If it is end-to-end latency requirement, accumulated estimated=0A     =
    latency value should not exceed this value.  It MUST be=0A         quan=
tified in units of micro-seconds and encoded as an float=0A         point v=
alue.=0A=0A      *  If it is end-to-end jitter requirement, accumulated est=
imated=0A         latency variation value should not exceed this value.  It=
 MUST=0A         be quantified in units of micro-seconds and encoded as an =
float=0A         point value.=0A=0A      *  If it is end-to-end loss requir=
ement, the accumulated estimated=0A         loss value should not exceed th=
is value.  It MUST be quantified=0A         in units of the number of packe=
ts per million packets.=0A=0A2.3.  New RSVP FLOWSPEC sub-object=0A=0A   In =
order to make source node get performance accumulation result from=0A   sou=
rce to sink in multi-domain (e.g., Inter-AS, Inter-Area or Multi-=0A   Laye=
r) application, this document defines a new RSVP FLOWSPEC=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et=
 al.              Expires January 20, 2013                [Page 7]=0A=0C=0A=
Internet-Draft       RSVP-TE for services aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=
=0A=0A   [RFC2210] sub-object.  It has the same format and TLV Type as defi=
ned=0A   in section "2.1.1 New RSVP ADSPEC sub-object".  When sink node=0A =
  receive Path message, it must copy the accumulation result from=0A   ADSP=
EC to FLOWSPEC.=0A=0A   When LSP goes across a Composite Links [CL-REQ], tr=
affic from LSR A=0A   to B and B to A may go across different Component Lin=
ks so that=0A   performance from sink to source may not be indentical to th=
e one from=0A   source to sink.  This document defines another new RSVP FLO=
WSPEC=0A   [RFC2210] sub-object.  It has the same format as defined in sect=
ion=0A   "2.1.1 New RSVP ADSPEC sub-object" except a different TLV Type whi=
ch=0A   indicates performance accumulation from sink to source.  So source=
=0A   node can get performance accumulated value from sink to source.=0A=0A=
   This document also defined a new FLOWSPEC sub-object which has the=0A   =
same format and TLV Type as defined in section "2.1.2 New RSVP=0A   SENDER=
=5FTSPEC sub-object".  It indicates end-to-end latecny, jitter or=0A   loss=
 performance requirement.=0A=0A2.4.  Signaling Procedures=0A=0A   When sour=
ce node desires to accumulate latency, jitter or loss of one=0A   end-to-en=
d LSP, "Latency Accumulating desired", "Jitter Accumulation=0A   desired" o=
r "Loss Accumulation desired" flag (value TBD) should be=0A   set in LSP=5F=
ATTRIBUTES object of Path/Resv message [RFC5420].  If=0A   source node make=
s intermediate node have the capability to verify=0A   accumulated performa=
nce, "Latency Verifying desired", "Jitter=0A   Verifying desired" or "Loss =
Verifying desired" flag (value TBD)=0A   should be also set in LSP=5FATTRIB=
UTES object of Path/Resv message.=0A=0A   A source node initiates performan=
ce accumulation for a given LSP by=0A   adding a new ADSPEC sub-object as d=
efined in section "2.1.1" to Path=0A   message.  If performance verifying i=
s desired, source node also adds=0A   a new SENDER=5FTSPEC sub-object as de=
fined in section "2.1.2" to Path=0A   message.=0A=0A   When downstream node=
 receives Path message and if performance (e.g.,=0A   latency, jitter or lo=
ss) accumulating desired is set in the=0A   LSP=5FATTRIBUTES, it accumulate=
s latency, jitter or loss and updates=0A   ADSPEC sub-object before it send=
s Path message to downsteam.=0A=0A   If performance verifying desired is se=
t in LSP=5FATTRIBUTES, downstream=0A   node will check whether accumulated =
estimated performance value=0A   exceeds the value carried in SENDER=5FTSPE=
C sub-object.  If the=0A   accumulated performance is not achievable, there=
 is no necessary to=0A   accumulate performance for remaining domain or nod=
es.  It MUST=0A   generate a error message with a indication which means th=
at=0A   accumulated performance (i.e., latency, jitter or loss) couldn't me=
et=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.              Expires January 20, 2013             =
   [Page 8]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft       RSVP-TE for services aware MPLS   =
        July 2012=0A=0A=0A   end-to-end performance requirement (TBD by IAN=
A).=0A=0A   If intermediate node (e.g., entry node of one domain) couldn't=
=0A   support performance accumulation function, it MUST generate a error=
=0A   message with a indication which means that performance accumulation=
=0A   is unsupported (TBD by IANA).=0A=0A   When sink node of LSP receives =
Path message and performance=0A   accumulating desired is set in LSP=5FATTR=
IBUTES, it copy accumulated=0A   estimated performance value from ADSPEC to=
 FLOWSPEC before it send=0A   Resv message to upstream.  Then source node c=
an get performance=0A   accumulated value from source to sink for unidirect=
ional and=0A   bidirectional LSP.=0A=0A   If LSP is a bidirectional one and=
 performance accumulating desired is=0A   set in LSP=5FATTRIBUTES, it adds =
a FLOWSPEC sub-object as defined in=0A   section "2.1.3" to accumulate end-=
to-end performance value from sink=0A   to source.=0A=0A   If LSP is a bidi=
rectional one and performance verifying desired is=0A   set in LSP=5FATTRIB=
UTES, it copy end-to-end performance requirement=0A   value from SENDER=5FT=
SPEC sub-oject to FLOWSPEC sub-object.=0A=0A   When upstream node receives =
Resv message and if performance=0A   accumulating desired is set in LSP=5FA=
TTRIBUTES, it accumulates=0A   performance of each hops and updates FLOWSPE=
C sub-object (i.e., from=0A   sink to source) before it sends Resv message =
to upstream.=0A=0A   If performance verifying desired is set in LSP=5FATTRI=
BUTES, it will=0A   check whether accumulated estimated performance value f=
rom sink to=0A   source exceeds end-to-end performance requirement value.  =
If=0A   accumulated performance is not achievable, there is no necessary to=
=0A   accumulate performance for remaining domain or nodes.  It MUST=0A   g=
enerate a error message with a indication which means that=0A   accumulated=
 performance couldn't meet end-to-end performance=0A   requirement (TBD by =
IANA).=0A=0A   After source node receive Resv message, it will get accumula=
ted=0A   performance value, it can confirm whether performance value meet S=
LA=0A   or not.=0A=0A=0A3.  Performance SLA Parameters Conveying=0A=0A   [C=
L-REQ] introduces Composite Link into MPLS network.  In order to=0A   assig=
n LSP to one of component links with different performance=0A   characteris=
tics (e.g., latency, jitter and loss), RSVP-TE message=0A   MUST convey per=
formance SLA parameter to end points of Composite=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.    =
          Expires January 20, 2013                [Page 9]=0A=0C=0AInternet=
-Draft       RSVP-TE for services aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=0A  =
 Links.  So it can select one of component links or trigger the=0A   creati=
on of lower layer connection based on performance SLA=0A   parameter.=0A=0A=
   One end-to-end LSP (e.g., in IP/MPLS or MPLS-TP network) may traverse=0A=
   a FA-LSP of server layer (e.g., OTN rings).  There will be some=0A   per=
formance constraint requirement for server layer.  RSVP-TE message=0A   als=
o needs to carry a indication for FA selection or FA-LSP creation.=0A=0A   =
So this document extend RSVP-TE to carry a indication of request=0A   maxim=
um acceptable latency, jitter of loss value.  The end point will=0A   take =
these parameters into account for selection or creation of=0A   component l=
ink, FA selection or FA-LSP.=0A=0A   This document defines extensions to an=
d describes the use of RSVP-TE=0A   [RFC3209], [RFC3471], [RFC3473] to expl=
icitly convey the performance=0A   SLA parameter for selection or creation =
of component link or FA/=0A   FA-LSP.  Specifically, in this document, Perf=
ormance SLA Parameters=0A   TLV are defined and added into ERO as a sub-obj=
ect.=0A=0A3.1.  Performance SLA Parameters ERO sub-object=0A=0A   A new OPT=
IONAL sub-object of EXPLICIT=5FROUTE Object (ERO) is used to=0A   specify p=
erformance SLA parameters including a indication of request=0A   maximum ac=
ceptable latency, jitter or loss value.  It can be used for=0A   following =
scenarios.=0A=0A   o  One end-to-end LSP may traverse a server layer FA-LSP=
.  This sub-=0A      object of ERO can indicate that FA selection or FA-LSP=
 creation=0A      shall be based on latency, jitter or loss constraint.  Th=
e=0A      boundary nodes of multi-layer will take these parameters into=0A =
     account for FA selection or FA-LSP creation.=0A=0A   o  One end-to-end=
 LSP may be across some Composite Links [CL-REQ].=0A      This subobject of=
 ERO can indicate that a traffic flow shall=0A      select a component link=
 with some latency, jitter of loss=0A      constraint values as specified i=
n this subobject.=0A=0A   Performance SLA Parameters ERO subobject has the =
following format.=0A   It follows a subobject containing the IP address, or=
 the link=0A   identifier [RFC3477], associated with the TE link on which i=
t is to=0A   be used.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.              =
Expires January 20, 2013               [Page 10]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft    =
   RSVP-TE for services aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=0A      0     =
              1                   2                   3=0A      0 1 2 3 4 5=
 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |L| Type(IANA)  |=
     Length    |           Reserved            |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |         Request Max=
imum Acceptable Performance Value 1        |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |                        =
      ...                              |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |         Request Maximum Acc=
eptable Performance Value n        |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A=0A            Figure 5: Format of Per=
formance SLA Parameters TLV=0A=0A   Request Maximum Acceptable Performance =
Value format is defined in the=0A   next picture.=0A=0A     0              =
     1                   2                   3=0A     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0=
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     | Value Type  |M|          =
         Reserved                    |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A     |                              =
 Value                           |=0A     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=0A=0A     Figure 6: Format of Request Maxi=
mum Acceptable Performance Value=0A=0A   o  Value Type:=0A=0A      *  0: It=
 is maximum acceptable latency value.=0A=0A      *  1: It is maximum accept=
able latency variation value.=0A=0A      *  2: It is maximum acceptable los=
s value.=0A=0A   o  M bit: a one bit field indicates whether a traffic flow=
 shall=0A      select a component link with minimum performance (i.e., late=
ncy,=0A      jitter or loss) value or not.  It can also indicate whether on=
e=0A      end-to-end LSP shall select a FA with minimum performance value o=
r=0A      not when it traverse a server layer.=0A=0A   o  Value:=0A=0A     =
 *  If it is maximum acceptable latency or jitter value, it MUST be=0A     =
    quantified in units of micro-seconds and encoded as an float=0A        =
 point value.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.              Expires January 20, =
2013               [Page 11]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft       RSVP-TE for servi=
ces aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=0A      *  If it is maximum accept=
able loss value, it MUST be quantified=0A         in units of the number of=
 packets per million packets.=0A=0A   Following is an example about how to =
use these parameters.  Assume=0A   there are following component links with=
in one composite link.=0A=0A   o  Component link1: latency=3D50 ms, latency=
 variation=3D15 ns, loss=3D8%=0A=0A   o  Component link2: latency=3D100 ms,=
 latency variation=3D6 ns, loss=3D9%=0A=0A   o  Component link3: latency=3D=
200 ms, latency variation=3D3 ns, loss=3D8%=0A=0A   o  Component link4: lat=
ency=3D300 ms, latency variation=3D1 ns, loss=3D7%=0A=0A=0A   Assume there =
are following request information.=0A=0A   o  Request minimum latency=3DFAL=
SE=0A=0A   o  Request minimum latency variation=3DFALSE=0A=0A   o  Request =
minimum loss=3DFALSE=0A=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable Latency Value=3D150 ms=
=0A=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable Latency Variation Value=3D10 ns=0A=0A   o  M=
aximum Acceptable Loss Value=3D10%=0A=0A   Only Component link2 could be qu=
alified.=0A=0A=0A   o  Request minimum latency=3DFALSE=0A=0A   o  Request m=
inimum latency variation=3DFALSE=0A=0A   o  Request minimum loss=3DFALSE=0A=
=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable Latency Value=3D350 ms=0A=0A   o  Maximum Accep=
table Latency Variation Value=3D10 ns=0A=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable Loss Va=
lue=3D8%=0A=0A   Component link 3 and 4 could be qualified.  Which componen=
t link is=0A   selected depends on local policy.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al=
.              Expires January 20, 2013               [Page 12]=0A=0C=0AInt=
ernet-Draft       RSVP-TE for services aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=
=0A   o  Request minimum latency=3DFALSE=0A=0A   o  Request minimum latency=
 variation=3DTRUE=0A=0A   o  Request minimum loss=3DFALSE=0A=0A   o  Maximu=
m Acceptable Latency Value=3D350 ms=0A=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable Latency V=
ariation Value=3D10 ns=0A=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable Loss Value=3D10%=0A=0A=
   Only Component link4 could be qualified.=0A=0A=0A   o  Request minimum l=
atency=3DTRUE=0A=0A   o  Request minimum latency variation=3DFALSE=0A=0A   =
o  Request minimum loss=3DFALSE=0A=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable Latency Value=
=3D350 ms=0A=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable Latency Variation Value=3D10 ns=0A=
=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable Loss Value=3D10%=0A=0A   Only Component link2 c=
ould be qualified.=0A=0A   o  Request minimum latency=3DFALSE=0A=0A   o  Re=
quest minimum latency variation=3DFALSE=0A=0A   o  Request minimum loss=3DT=
RUE=0A=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable Latency Value=3D 350 ms=0A=0A   o  Maximu=
m Acceptable Latency Variation Value=3D10 ns=0A=0A   o  Maximum Acceptable =
Loss Value=3D10%=0A=0A   Only Component link4 could be qualified.=0A=0A    =
  Request minimum latency=3DTRUE=0A=0A      Request minimum latency variati=
on=3DTRUE=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.              Expires January 20, 2013=
               [Page 13]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft       RSVP-TE for services =
aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=0A      Request minimum loss=3DTRUE=0A=
=0A      Maximum Acceptable Latency Value=3D350 ms=0A=0A      Maximum Accep=
table Latency Variation Value=3D10 ns=0A=0A      Maximum Acceptable Loss Va=
lue=3D10%=0A=0A   In this case, there is no any qualified component links. =
 But=0A   priority may be used for latency and variation, so one of compone=
nt=0A   links could be still selected.=0A=0A3.2.  Signaling Procedure=0A=0A=
   When a intermediate node receives a PATH message containing ERO and=0A  =
 finds that there is a Performance SLA Parameters ERO sub-object=0A   immed=
iately behind the IP address or link address sub-object related=0A   to its=
elf, if the node determines that it's a region edge node of FA-=0A   LSP or=
 an end point of a Composite Link [CL-REQ], then this node=0A   extracts Pe=
rformance SLA parameters (i.e., request maximum acceptable=0A   latency, ji=
tter and loss value) from Performance SLA Parameters ERO=0A   sub-object.  =
This node used these performance parameters for FA=0A   selection, FA-LSP c=
reation or component link selection.=0A=0A   If intermediate node couldn't =
support performance SLA, it MUST=0A   generate a PathErr message with a "Pe=
rformance SLA unsupported"=0A   indication (TBD by IANA).  If intermediate =
node couldn't select a FA=0A   or component link, or create a FA-LSP which =
meet performance=0A   constraint defined in Performance SLA Parameters ERO =
sub-object, it=0A   must generate a PathErr message with a "Performance SLA=
 parameters=0A   couldn't be met" indication (TBD by IANA).=0A=0A=0A4.  Sec=
urity Considerations=0A=0A   This document raises no new security issues.=
=0A=0A=0A5.  IANA Considerations=0A=0A   TBD=0A=0A=0A6.  References=0A=0A=
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.              Expires January 20, 2013         =
      [Page 14]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft       RSVP-TE for services aware MPL=
S           July 2012=0A=0A=0A6.1.  Normative References=0A=0A   [RFC2119] =
 Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate=0A              Requir=
ement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.=0A=0A   [RFC3209]  Awduche, D.=
, Berger, L., Gan, D., Li, T., Srinivasan, V.,=0A              and G. Swall=
ow, "RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP=0A              Tunnels", RFC 3209=
, December 2001.=0A=0A   [RFC3473]  Berger, L., "Generalized Multi-Protocol=
 Label Switching=0A              (GMPLS) Signaling Resource ReserVation Pro=
tocol-Traffic=0A              Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions", RFC 3473, =
January 2003.=0A=0A   [RFC3477]  Kompella, K. and Y. Rekhter, "Signalling U=
nnumbered Links=0A              in Resource ReSerVation Protocol - Traffic =
Engineering=0A              (RSVP-TE)", RFC 3477, January 2003.=0A=0A   [RF=
C3630]  Katz, D., Kompella, K., and D. Yeung, "Traffic Engineering=0A      =
        (TE) Extensions to OSPF Version 2", RFC 3630,=0A              Septe=
mber 2003.=0A=0A   [RFC4203]  Kompella, K. and Y. Rekhter, "OSPF Extensions=
 in Support=0A              of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (=
GMPLS)",=0A              RFC 4203, October 2005.=0A=0A6.2.  Informative Ref=
erences=0A=0A   [CL-REQ]   C. Villamizar, "Requirements for MPLS Over a Com=
posite=0A              Link", draft-ietf-rtgwg-cl-requirement-07 .=0A=0A   =
[EXPRESS-PATH]=0A              A. Atlas, "Performance-based Path Selection =
for Explicitly=0A              Routed LSPs", draft-atlas-mpls-te-express-pa=
th-01 .=0A=0A   [ISIS-TE-EXPRESS-PATH]=0A              S. Previdi, "IS-IS T=
raffic Engineering (TE) Metric=0A              Extensions", draft-previdi-i=
sis-te-metric-extensions-01 .=0A=0A   [LOSS-DELAY-TE-FRAMEWORK]=0A         =
     X. Fu, "Loss and Delay Traffic Engineering Framework for=0A           =
   MPLS", draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-te-framework-05 .=0A=0A   [OSPF-TE-EXP=
RESS-PATH]=0A              S. Giacalone, "OSPF Traffic Engineering (TE) Met=
ric=0A              Extensions", draft-ietf-ospf-te-metric-extensions-01 .=
=0A=0A   [ietf-mpls-loss-delay]=0A              D. Frost, "Packet Loss and =
Delay Measurement for MPLS=0A=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.              Expires Janua=
ry 20, 2013               [Page 15]=0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft       RSVP-TE fo=
r services aware MPLS           July 2012=0A=0A=0A              Networks", =
RFC6374 .=0A=0A=0AAuthors' Addresses=0A=0A   Xihua Fu=0A   ZTE=0A=0A   Emai=
l: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=0A=0A=0A   Malcolm Betts=0A   ZTE=0A=0A   Email: mal=
colm.betts@zte.com.cn=0A=0A=0A   Qilei Wang=0A   ZTE=0A=0A   Email: wang.qi=
lei@zte.com.cn=0A=0A=0A   Dave McDysan=0A   Verizon=0A=0A   Email: dave.mcd=
ysan@verizon.com=0A=0A=0A   Andrew Malis=0A   Verizon=0A=0A   Email: andrew=
.g.malis@verizon.com=0A=0A=0A   Vishwas Manral=0A   Hewlett-Packard Corp.=
=0A   191111 Pruneridge Ave.=0A   Cupertino, CA  95014=0A   US=0A=0A   Phon=
e: 408-447-1497=0A   Email: vishwas.manral@hp.com=0A   URI:=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=
=0A=0A=0AFu, et al.              Expires January 20, 2013               [Pa=
ge 16]=0A=0C=0A=
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From aldrin.ietf@gmail.com  Thu Jul 19 08:34:30 2012
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To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@tools.ietf.org, MPLS-TP ad hoc team <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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Support.

-sam
On Jul 18, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Loa Andersson wrote:

> Working group,
> 
> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection-00
> as an MPLS working group document.
> 
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
> 
> The poll ends August 3r, 2012.
> 
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> -- 
> 
> 
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                             +46 767 72 92 13
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From pabloisnot@gmail.com  Thu Jul 19 09:44:49 2012
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From: Pablo Frank <pabloisnot@gmail.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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--e0cb4e6ff0b787fe9d04c53182a2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Yes/support.

Pablo

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> Support.
>
> -sam
> On Jul 18, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Loa Andersson wrote:
>
> > Working group,
> >
> > this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> > draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection-00
> > as an MPLS working group document.
> >
> > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> > group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
> >
> > The poll ends August 3r, 2012.
> >
> > /Loa
> > (mpls wg co-chair)
> > --
> >
> >
> > Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> > Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
> >                                             +46 767 72 92 13
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

--e0cb4e6ff0b787fe9d04c53182a2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes/support.<div><br></div><div>Pablo<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Sam Aldrin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">aldrin.ietf@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Support.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
-sam<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">On Jul 18, 2012, at 1=
1:22 AM, Loa Andersson wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; Working group,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; this is to start a two week poll on adopting<br>
&gt; draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection-00<br>
&gt; as an MPLS working group document.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working<br=
>
&gt; group mailing list (<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>=
).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The poll ends August 3r, 2012.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; /Loa<br>
&gt; (mpls wg co-chair)<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 email: <=
a href=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com">loa.andersson@ericsson.com</a>=
<br>
&gt; Sr Strategy and Standards Manager =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
&gt; Ericsson Inc =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone:=
 <a href=3D"tel:%2B46%2010%20717%2052%2013" value=3D"+46107175213">+46 10 7=
17 52 13</a><br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <a href=3D"tel:%2B46%20767%2072%2092%2013" value=3D"+46=
767729213">+46 767 72 92 13</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; mpls mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--e0cb4e6ff0b787fe9d04c53182a2--

From loa@pi.nu  Thu Jul 19 10:19:38 2012
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Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Working group,

this is to start a "two week" poll on adopting
draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end
Aug 7th, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Support,=20

Thanks

Regards ... Zafar=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Loa Andersson
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 1:20 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-
> applicability-label-adv
>=20
> Working group,
>=20
> this is to start a "two week" poll on adopting
> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03
> as an MPLS working group document.
>=20
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>=20
> Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end
> Aug 7th, 2012.
>=20
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13
> _______________________________________________
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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support

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa=
 Andersson
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 1:20 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-=
label-adv

Working group,

this is to start a "two week" poll on adopting
draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end
Aug 7th, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)
--=20


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From sriganeshkini@gmail.com  Thu Jul 19 11:24:04 2012
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
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--14dae9cfc7e07e0b3b04c532e5ae
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Lizhong, see inline

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn> wrote=
:

>
> Hi Sri,
> Thank you for the review. Please see inline below.
>
> Regards
> Lizhong
>
>
> Sriganesh Kini <sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com> wrote 2012/07/19 08:25:54:
>
>
> > Hi Manav and other authors,
> >
> > Thanks for the additional pointers that you sent to help understand
> > the draft. It certainly helped.
> >
> > However before I make a detailed review, I wanted to better
> > understand the motivation of this draft. If I understood correctly,
> > the HSMP LSP is co-routing unicast traffic from PE-x to PE-y with
> > multicast traffic in the reverse direction i.e, PE-y to PE-x.
> > However these are independent services and will have different TE
> > characteristics. I don't see how co-routing that traffic helps to
> > solve the TE problem, when that is the primary requirement of the
> > network design. In fact it may make it even harder.
> >
> > I agree that some labels entries may be saved by having a MP2P
> > construct for the unicast traffic. However note that even for
> > unicast traffic the TE characteristics for traffic from PE-x to PE-y
> > can be different than traffic from PE-z to PE-y. An MP2P LSP is less
> > likely to provide a solution for that problem and when it
> > additionally gets constrained to be co-routed with another P2MP LSP
> > that is satisfying TE requirements of another service then it is
> > even less likely to do so.
>
> [Lizhong] In that case, co-routed P2P return path from PE-x to PE-y, or
> PE-z to PE-y is required, and Eric pointed out the similar for TP case.
> That means upstream label should be allocated for every leaf node. If the
> WG think above case is useful, we could add that option of P2MP + co-rout=
ed
> P2P return path. In the current version, we only cover the TE case as
> described in section 3.3 and 3.4.
>
>
My point was that the TE multicast service from PE-y to PE-x may require
path PE-y -> P1 -> PE-x but the TE unicast service from PE-x to PE-y may
require a path PE-x -> P2 -> PE-y. This may be due to the current resource
availability in the network and the TE requirements of the multicast and
unicast services. In this case co-routing is not possible. Also the unicast
service from PE-z to PE-y may require a path PE-z -> P3 -> PE-y. In this
cast merging or sharing resources for the unicast services is not possible.

I interpreted Eric's point about TE as a need to do a common solution
with/without label-merging. Not a different use-case.



>  >
> > Another possible advantage of HSMP seems to be that there is some
> > saving in signaling since forward and reverse direction labels are
> > signaled at the same time. However IMO these savings are not big
> > enough. At least not big enough that independent services must be
> > constrained to be co-routed.
> [Lizhong] the primary requirement for HSMP is co-routed. Another advantag=
e
> is operational task reduction compared with P2MP + independent P2P return
> path. In many cases, the return path for P2MP is required, and it is not
> necessary to configure each P2P return path on each leaf node for HSMP LS=
P.
>
> >
> > Note that I am not saying that VPLS does not have problems, nor am I
> > saying that P2MP LSPs should not be used in VPLS. My primary
> > question is about the motivation for the co-routing when TE is a
> > requirement and the associated problems I described above for HSMP.
> [Lizhong] one of the motivation for co-routed is time synchronization as
> described in section 1.1.
>

I admit I don't understand all the intricacies of time sync. There is a
stmt in the draft - "... the PTP slave might have to send also messages
(not carrying timestamps) back to the PTP master ..." but no mention about
what are the TE constraints on such messages. Is the PTP master always the
root of the HSMP ?

Also I don't believe this draft is modifying how PTP messages from master
to slave are sent using P2MP. The TE requirements of messages from slaves
to master along the reverse path that mandate co-routing and label-merging
is not explained.



>
> >
> > Let me know if I have understood anything incorrectly.
> [Lizhong] hope the above helps.
>
> >
> > Thanks
> > - Sri
> > ________________________________
> > From: Ross Callon [rcallon@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:59 AM
> > To: Sriganesh Kini; eosborne@cisco.com; Nic Leymann
> > Cc: Loa Andersson; George Swallow (swallow); Ross Callon; Martin
> > Vigoureux; lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn; frederic.jounay@orange.ch;
> > Bhatia, Manav (Manav)
> > Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
> >
> > Sriganesh, Eric, Nic;
> >
> > You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> > draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
> >
> > Note to authors: You have been CC=E2=80=99d on this email so that you c=
an know
> that
> > this review is going on. However, please do not review your own documen=
t.
> >
> > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it usefu=
l
> > (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and i=
s
> > the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether t=
he
> > document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=E2=80=
=99t have
> to
> > be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
> >
> > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
> secretary,
> > and CC=E2=80=99d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may =
be sent
> > privately to only the WG chairs.
> >
> > Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to the IE=
TF
> > meeting in Vancouver)?
> >
> > Thanks, Ross
> > (as MPLS WG chair)
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>


--=20
- Sri

--14dae9cfc7e07e0b3b04c532e5ae
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Lizhong, see inline<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 =
at 1:14 AM, Lizhong Jin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin=
@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;</span> wrote:=
<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">Hi Sri,</font>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">Thank you for the review. Please see
inline below.</font>
<br>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">Regards</font>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">Lizhong</font>
<br><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">=C2=A0</font>
<br>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">Sriganesh Kini &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sriganes=
h.kini@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com</a>&gt;
wrote 2012/07/19 08:25:54:<div><br>
<br>
&gt; Hi Manav and other authors,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks for the additional pointers that you sent to help understand
<br>
&gt; the draft. It certainly helped.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; However before I make a detailed review, I wanted to better <br>
&gt; understand the motivation of this draft. If I understood correctly,
<br>
&gt; the HSMP LSP is co-routing unicast traffic from PE-x to PE-y with
<br>
&gt; multicast traffic in the reverse direction i.e, PE-y to PE-x. <br>
&gt; However these are independent services and will have different TE
<br>
&gt; characteristics. I don&#39;t see how co-routing that traffic helps to
<br>
&gt; solve the TE problem, when that is the primary requirement of the
<br>
&gt; network design. In fact it may make it even harder.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I agree that some labels entries may be saved by having a MP2P <br>
&gt; construct for the unicast traffic. However note that even for <br>
&gt; unicast traffic the TE characteristics for traffic from PE-x to PE-y<b=
r>
&gt; can be different than traffic from PE-z to PE-y. An MP2P LSP is less<b=
r>
&gt; likely to provide a solution for that problem and when it <br>
&gt; additionally gets constrained to be co-routed with another P2MP LSP
<br>
&gt; that is satisfying TE requirements of another service then it is <br>
&gt; even less likely to do so.</div></font>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">[Lizhong] In that case, co-routed P2P
return path from PE-x to PE-y, or PE-z to PE-y is required, and Eric pointe=
d
out the similar for TP case. That means upstream label should be allocated
for every leaf node. If the WG think above case is useful, we could add
that option of P2MP + co-routed P2P return path. In the current version,
we only cover the TE case as described in section 3.3 and 3.4.</font>
<br><div><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div></blockquote><div><br><=
/div><div>My point was that the TE multicast service from PE-y to PE-x may =
require path PE-y -&gt; P1 -&gt; PE-x but the TE unicast service from PE-x =
to PE-y may require a path PE-x -&gt; P2 -&gt; PE-y. This may be due to the=
 current resource availability in the network and the TE requirements of th=
e multicast and unicast services. In this case co-routing is not possible. =
Also the unicast service from PE-z to PE-y may require a path PE-z -&gt; P3=
 -&gt; PE-y. In this cast merging or sharing resources for the unicast serv=
ices is not possible.=C2=A0</div>


<div><br></div><div>I interpreted Eric&#39;s point about TE as a need to do=
 a common solution with/without label-merging. Not a different use-case.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<div><font face=3D"sans-serif">
&gt; <br>
&gt; Another possible advantage of HSMP seems to be that there is some
<br>
&gt; saving in signaling since forward and reverse direction labels are
<br>
&gt; signaled at the same time. However IMO these savings are not big <br>
&gt; enough. At least not big enough that independent services must be
<br>
&gt; constrained to be co-routed.</font>
<br></div><font face=3D"sans-serif">[Lizhong] the primary requirement for
HSMP is co-routed. Another advantage is operational task reduction compared
with P2MP + independent P2P return path. In many cases, the return path
for P2MP is required, and it is not necessary to configure each P2P return
path on each leaf node for HSMP LSP.</font>
<br><div><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Note that I am not saying that VPLS does not have problems, nor am
I<br>
&gt; saying that P2MP LSPs should not be used in VPLS. My primary <br>
&gt; question is about the motivation for the co-routing when TE is a <br>
&gt; requirement and the associated problems I described above for HSMP.</f=
ont>
<br></div><font face=3D"sans-serif">[Lizhong] one of the motivation for
co-routed is time synchronization as described in section 1.1.</font>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I admit I don&#39;t understand all the=
 intricacies of time sync. There is a stmt in the draft - &quot;...=C2=A0th=
e PTP slave might have to send=C2=A0also messages (not carrying timestamps)=
 back to the PTP master ...&quot; but no mention about what are the TE cons=
traints on such messages. Is the PTP master always the root of the HSMP ?</=
div>


<div><br></div><div>Also I don&#39;t believe this draft is modifying how PT=
P messages from master to slave are sent using P2MP. The TE requirements of=
 messages from slaves to master along the reverse path that mandate co-rout=
ing and label-merging is not explained.</div>


<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><font f=
ace=3D"sans-serif"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Let me know if I have understood anything incorrectly.</font>
<br></div><font face=3D"sans-serif">[Lizhong] hope the above helps.</font>
<br><div><div><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt; - Sri<br>
&gt; ________________________________<br>
&gt; From: Ross Callon [<a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">rcallon@juniper.net</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:59 AM<br>
&gt; To: Sriganesh Kini; <a href=3D"mailto:eosborne@cisco.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">eosborne@cisco.com</a>; Nic Leymann<br>
&gt; Cc: Loa Andersson; George Swallow (swallow); Ross Callon; Martin <br>
&gt; Vigoureux; <a href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank"=
>lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:frederic.jounay@orange.ch" t=
arget=3D"_blank">frederic.jounay@orange.ch</a>; <br>
&gt; Bhatia, Manav (Manav)<br>
&gt; Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Sriganesh, Eric, Nic;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for<br>
&gt; draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Note to authors: You have been CC=E2=80=99d on this email so that you =
can
know that<br>
&gt; this review is going on. However, please do not review your own docume=
nt.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
useful<br>
&gt; (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks),
and is<br>
&gt; the document technically sound? =C2=A0We are interested in knowing
whether the<br>
&gt; document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=E2=80=
=99t
have to<br>
&gt; be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secre=
tary,<br>
&gt; and CC=E2=80=99d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may=
 be
sent<br>
&gt; privately to only the WG chairs.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to the
IETF<br>
&gt; meeting in Vancouver)?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks, Ross<br>
&gt; (as MPLS WG chair)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
</font>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>- Sri<br=
>

--14dae9cfc7e07e0b3b04c532e5ae--

From agmalis@gmail.com  Thu Jul 19 11:58:38 2012
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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:59:10 -0400
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Support.

Cheers,
Andy

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
> Working group,
>
> this is to start a "two week" poll on adopting
> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03
> as an MPLS working group document.
>
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end
> Aug 7th, 2012.
>
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From venkatflex@gmail.com  Thu Jul 19 12:32:23 2012
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OK, thanks Muly.

Cheers,
Venkat.

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:58 AM, Muly Ilan <muly_i@rad.com> wrote:

>  Hi Venkat.,****
>
> ** **
>
> Regarding the 3rd issue, of =93session mode=94. I haven=92t requested to =
define
> a MIB object for the coordinated/independent modes.****
>
> I merely suggested to rename =93bfdMplsSessMode=94 to =93bfdMplsSessFunct=
ion=94
> to avoid misunderstandings.****
>
> ** **
>
> Muly****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* venkatesan mahalingam [mailto:venkatflex@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:41 AM
> *To:* Muly Ilan
> *Cc:* rtg-bfd@ietf.org; mpls; Kannan KV Sampath; Sam Aldrin; Thomas Nadea=
u
> *Subject:* Re: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks Muly for your comments, please see my answers inlined with the tag
> [VM].****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,****
>
> Venkat.****
>
> ** **
>
> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:08:32 +0000
> From: Muly Ilan <muly_i@rad.com>
> To: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
> Subject: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00
> Message-ID:
>         <32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22C29DAC87042C799D@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
>
> Hi,
>
> 1.
> In section 5.2.2, Example of BFD Session configuration for Maintenance
> Entity of MPLS-TP TE tunnel, the object mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex =
of
> the ME table in draft-vkst-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib is not mentioned.
> It would be helpful to explain that when a BFD session with
> bfdMplsSessMapType=3Dmep(6) is created in the bfdSessTable, the value of =
the
> object mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex should be updated with the BFD
> session index.
>
> [VM] OK****
>
>
> 2.
> For the associated bidirectional LSPs case there would be two
> unidirectional MEs that together operate the BFD session. To which one of
> the MEs should the map pointer, bfdMplsSessMapPointer, point?
> I think it may point to either one of the unidirectional MEs i.e. make it
> implementation specific, but this should be described in the MIB.
> [VM] This draft suggests to map each ME of LSP/PW entry with the BFD
> session entry, for associated bidirectional case, having an BFD session
> entry to point to either one of the unidirectional ME is purely
> implementation specific, IMO, nothing needs to be described.****
>
>
> 3.
> The term "session mode" in RFC6428 refers to coordinated operation vs.
> independent operation. However the current object bfdMplsSessMode sets th=
e
> BFD functionality to cc(1) or cv(2). Suggest to rename the object to
> bfdMplsSessFunction.****
>
> [VM] IMO,MIB object for coordinated & independent session mode operation
> is not required as we can infer it from bfd.MinRxInterval value 0.****
>
> ** **
>
> bfdMplsSessMode denotes the BFD message format (CC/CV) to be carried in t=
he BFD control packet, IMO this MIB object should be retained.****
>
> if this MIB object name does not convey the right meaning, we might need =
to choose appropriate MIB object name.****
>
>
> 4.
> There's a need to configure what is the consequent action upon
> mis-connectivity defect and LOC defect. Possible values: alarm only, alar=
m
> and block data.
> Separate configuration for mis-connectivity and for LOC. Default value fo=
r
> mis-connectivity is alarm and block data. Default value for LOC is alarm
> only.
> Maybe a common behavior for all BFD sessions is sufficient. In this case
> define two scalar objects.
> [VM] OK****
>
>
> 5.
> Suggest to add counters for received and transmitted CC and CV packets.
> Need separate counters for CC and CV.
> [VM] OK
>
> Regards,
>
> Muly ****
>

--bcaec54ee5988740f004c533d9a5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

OK, thanks Muly.<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Venkat.<br><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:58 AM, Muly Ilan <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muly_i@rad.com" target=3D"_blank">muly_i@rad=
.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Hi Venkat.,<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Regarding the 3<sup>rd</s=
up> issue, of =93session mode=94. I haven=92t requested to define a MIB obj=
ect for the coordinated/independent modes.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I merely suggested to ren=
ame =93</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">bfdMplsSessMode=94 =
to =93bfdMplsSessFunction=94
 to avoid misunderstandings.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white"><u></u>=A0=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">Muly</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> venkates=
an mahalingam [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:venkatflex@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">venkatflex@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Muly Ilan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ie=
tf.org</a>; mpls; Kannan KV Sampath; Sam Aldrin; Thomas Nadeau<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks Muly for your comments, please see my answers=
 inlined with the tag [VM].<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Venkat.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">Date: Mon,=
 16 Jul 2012 14:08:32 +0000</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>

<span style=3D"background:white">From: Muly Ilan &lt;</span></span><a href=
=3D"mailto:muly_i@rad.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1155cc;backgr=
ound:white">muly_i@rad.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:whi=
te">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>

<span style=3D"background:white">To: &quot;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:=
rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1155cc;background:whit=
e">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">&qu=
ot;
 &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:#1155cc;background:white">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#222222;background:white">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>

<span style=3D"background:white">Subject: Comments to draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-m=
ib-00</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Message-ID:</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 &lt;</span></span><a href=
=3D"mailto:32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22C29DAC87042C799D@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il" ta=
rget=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1155cc;background:white">32CB7A1F0806AB468=
8CE3F22C29DAC87042C799D@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il</span></a><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#2222=
22;background:white">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>

<span style=3D"background:white">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D&quot;=
us-ascii&quot;</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Hi,</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"background:white">1.</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">In section 5.2.2, Example of BFD Session c=
onfiguration for Maintenance Entity of MPLS-TP TE tunnel, the object mplsOa=
mIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex of the ME table in draft-vkst-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib=
 is not mentioned.</span><br>

<span style=3D"background:white">It would be helpful to explain that when a=
 BFD session with bfdMplsSessMapType=3Dmep(6) is created in the bfdSessTabl=
e, the value of the object mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex should be updat=
ed with the BFD session index.</span><br>

</span><br>
[VM] OK<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">2.</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"=
><br>

<span style=3D"background:white">For the associated bidirectional LSPs case=
 there would be two unidirectional MEs that together operate the BFD sessio=
n. To which one of the MEs should the map pointer, bfdMplsSessMapPointer, p=
oint?</span><br>

<span style=3D"background:white">I think it may point to either one of the =
unidirectional MEs i.e. make it implementation specific, but this should be=
 described in the MIB.</span><br>
</span>[VM] This draft suggests to map each ME of LSP/PW entry with the BFD=
 session entry, for associated bidirectional case, having an BFD session en=
try to point to either one of the unidirectional ME is purely implementatio=
n specific, IMO, nothing needs to
 be described.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">3.</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"=
><br>

<span style=3D"background:white">The term &quot;session mode&quot; in RFC64=
28 refers to coordinated operation vs. independent operation. However the c=
urrent object bfdMplsSessMode sets the BFD functionality to cc(1) or cv(2).=
 Suggest to rename the object to bfdMplsSessFunction.</span></span><u></u><=
u></u></p>

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[VM] IMO,MIB object for coordinated &amp; independen=
t session mode operation is not required as we can infer it from bfd.MinRxI=
nterval value 0.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">bfdMplsSessMode denotes the BFD messa=
ge format (CC/CV) to be carried in the BFD control packet, IMO this MIB obj=
ect should be retained.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">if this MIB object name does not conv=
ey the right meaning, we might need to choose appropriate MIB object name.<=
u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">4.</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">There&#39;s a need to configure what is th=
e consequent action upon mis-connectivity defect and LOC defect. Possible v=
alues: alarm only, alarm and block data.</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Separate configuration for mis-connectivit=
y and for LOC. Default value for mis-connectivity is alarm and block data. =
Default value for LOC is alarm only.</span><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Maybe a common behavior for all BFD sessio=
ns is sufficient. In this case define two scalar objects.</span><br>
</span>[VM] OK<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#222222;background:white">5.</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"=
><br>

<span style=3D"background:white">Suggest to add counters for received and t=
ransmitted CC and CV packets. Need separate counters for CC and CV.</span><=
br>
</span>[VM] OK<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222"><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Regards,</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Muly</span></span> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--bcaec54ee5988740f004c533d9a5--

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From: venkatesan mahalingam <venkatflex@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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Yes/Support

Regards,
Venkat.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working group,
>
> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-**protection-00
> as an MPLS working group document.
>
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> The poll ends August 3r, 2012.
>
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/mpls<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls>
>

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Yes/Support<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Venkat.<br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Loa Andersson <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Working group,<br>
<br>
this is to start a two week poll on adopting<br>
draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-<u></u>protection-00<br>
as an MPLS working group document.<br>
<br>
Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working<br>
group mailing list (<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls=
@ietf.org</a>).<br>
<br>
The poll ends August 3r, 2012.<br>
<br>
/Loa<br>
(mpls wg co-chair)<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 email: <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">loa.andersson@eri=
csson.com</a><br>
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:=
loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
Ericsson Inc =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: <a h=
ref=3D"tel:%2B46%2010%20717%2052%2013" value=3D"+46107175213" target=3D"_bl=
ank">+46 10 717 52 13</a><br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B46%20767%2072%2092%2013" value=3D"+467677=
29213" target=3D"_blank">+46 767 72 92 13</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
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tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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From ms-daikoku@kddi.com  Thu Jul 19 19:52:13 2012
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To: mpls@ietf.org, loa@pi.nu
From: Masahiro DAIKOKU <ms-daikoku@kddi.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
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No, I am not aware of IPR issues.

Masahiro Daikoku


> Working Group and authors;
> 
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework - the wg chair are nearly ready
> to request publication for this draft, but before we do so we need
> to make an IPR poll
> 
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework?
> 
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
> 
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
> 
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
> 
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13

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From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
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To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
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Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Support.

> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>> Loa Andersson
>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:38 PM
>> To: mpls@ietf.org
>> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;
>> draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tools.ietf.org
>> Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for
>> draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
>> 
>> Working group,
>> 
>> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
>> draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
>> as an MPLS working group document.
>> 
>> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
>> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>> 
>> The poll ends July 31st, 2012.
>> 
>> /Loa
>> (mpls wg co-chair)
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> Loa Andersson                         email:
>> loa.andersson@ericsson.com
>> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
>> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com




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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div>Support.</div><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Loa Andersson<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:38 =
PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org">mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a>;=
<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tools.ietf.org">draf=
t-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tools.ietf.org</a><br></blockquote><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite">Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption =
for<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05<br></blockquote><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Working=
 group,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">this is to =
start a two week poll on adopting<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05<br></blockquote><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite">as an MPLS working group =
document.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Please send =
your comments (support/not support) to the mpls =
working<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">group mailing list (<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>).<br></blockquote><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">The poll =
ends July 31st, 2012.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">/Loa<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">(mpls wg =
co-chair)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">--<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Loa Andersson =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;emai=
l:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com">loa.andersson@ericsson.com</a><=
br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Sr Strategy and Standards =
Manager =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ericsson Inc =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;phone: +46 10 717 52 13<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+46 767 72 92 =
13<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu=
ote><blockquote type=3D"cite">mpls mailing =
list<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br></blockquote>_________________________________=
______________<br>mpls mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/mpls<br></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>Mahesh =
Jethanandani</div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a></div><=
div><br></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br></body></html>=

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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:14:06 +0300
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From: Yaacov Weingarten <wyaacov@gmail.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Yes/support

BR,
yaacov
On Jul 19, 2012 8:20 PM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working group,
>
> this is to start a "two week" poll on adopting
> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-**applicability-label-adv-03
> as an MPLS working group document.
>
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end
> Aug 7th, 2012.
>
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
> ______________________________**_________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/mpls<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls>
>

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<p>Yes/support</p>
<p>BR,<br>
yaacov</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 19, 2012 8:20 PM, &quot;Loa Andersson&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"att=
ribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Working group,<br>
<br>
this is to start a &quot;two week&quot; poll on adopting<br>
draft-raza-mpls-ldp-<u></u>applicability-label-adv-03<br>
as an MPLS working group document.<br>
<br>
Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working<br>
group mailing list (<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls=
@ietf.org</a>).<br>
<br>
Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end<br>
Aug 7th, 2012.<br>
<br>
/Loa<br>
(mpls wg co-chair)<br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 email: <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">loa.andersson@eri=
csson.com</a><br>
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:=
loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
Ericsson Inc =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: <a h=
ref=3D"tel:%2B46%2010%20717%2052%2013" value=3D"+46107175213" target=3D"_bl=
ank">+46 10 717 52 13</a><br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B46%20767%2072%2092%2013" value=3D"+467677=
29213" target=3D"_blank">+46 767 72 92 13</a><br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--f46d043c7fe21e70eb04c53bf720--

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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for	draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Yes/support.

Thanks,
Ryan

mpls-bounces@ietf.org wrote on 2012-07-20 01:20:22:

> Working group,
> 
> this is to start a "two week" poll on adopting
> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03
> as an MPLS working group document.
> 
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
> 
> Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end
> Aug 7th, 2012.
> 
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> -- 
> 
> 
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 

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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Yes/support.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Ryan</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2><tt>mpls-bounces@ietf.org wrote on 2012-07-20 01:20:22:<br>
<br>
&gt; Working group,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; this is to start a &quot;two week&quot; poll on adopting<br>
&gt; draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03<br>
&gt; as an MPLS working group document.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working<br>
&gt; group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end<br>
&gt; Aug 7th, 2012.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; /Loa<br>
&gt; (mpls wg co-chair)<br>
&gt; -- <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Loa Andersson &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com<br>
&gt; Sr Strategy and Standards Manager &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;loa@pi.nu<br>
&gt; Ericsson Inc &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;phone: +46 10 717 52 13<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; +46 767 72 92 13<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; mpls mailing list<br>
&gt; mpls@ietf.org<br>
&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls<br>
&gt; <br>
</tt></font>
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From thomas.morin@orange.com  Fri Jul 20 03:07:45 2012
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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:09:40 +0200
From: Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Support.

-Thomas

2012-07-19, Loa Andersson:
> Working group,
> 
> this is to start a "two week" poll on adopting
> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03
> as an MPLS working group document.
> 
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
> 
> Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end
> Aug 7th, 2012.
> 
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)


From loa@pi.nu  Fri Jul 20 05:19:08 2012
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Subject: Re: [mpls] implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label  ???
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Working Group,

I had one comment off-line on this pointing that we are also
interested in "intention to implement"!

Please also respond if you intend to implement!

/Loa

On 2012-07-19 13:36, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> we are preparing the request for publication for
> draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label, as part of the shepherd write-up
> we need to know about existing implementations.
>
> Please send mails to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org) or the
> working group chairs to inform us about implementations.
>
> /Loa
> (as wg co-chair)

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

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From scott.mansfield@ericsson.com  Fri Jul 20 07:04:02 2012
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From: Scott Mansfield <scott.mansfield@ericsson.com>
To: "loa@pi.nu" <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:03:45 -0400
Thread-Topic: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework
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No IPR claims.

regards,
-scott.


Scott Mansfield
Lead Architect

Ericsson Inc.
Mobile: +1 724 931 9316
http://www.ericsson.com<http://www.ericsson.com/>

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D155370214-20072012>No IPR=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D155370214-20072012></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D155370214-20072012>regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D155370214-20072012>-scott.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><B>Scott Mansfield</B>&nbsp;<BR><STRON=
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<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><STRONG><SPAN=20
class=3D155370214-20072012></SPAN>Ericsson Inc.</STRONG>&nbsp;<BR>Mobile: +=
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href=3D"http://www.ericsson.com/">http://www.ericsson.com</A></FONT></FONT>=
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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:27:53 +0200
From: Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>
To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Message-ID: <20120720162753.20d53bc2@orange.com>
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Cc: mpls@ietf.org, Raveendra Torvi <rtorvi@juniper.net>, "lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn" <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, "ice@cisco.com" <ice@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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Hi,

I've reviewed this draft and here is my attempt at commenting on the
different aspects as expected for this review.

What the specs aim to achieve and the procedures described seem to me
as technically sound.

I am however, not convinced by all the use cases put forward in section
2. 

The first one is time synchronisation, but there is no detailed
explanation of why having a leaf-to-root path is needed ("PTP slave
might have to send also messages") nor why having this path be
co-routed is a benefit. 

The second one is IPTV ; one thing that bothers me is that with only
one router as the root, it seems that it will be very hard to implement
redundancy of the IGMP Querier function and source-side router and. 

The third application case is L2VPN, with a key claim being a reduced
operational cost due to having less LDP state in the network. For VPLS,
I don't understand where the gain is supposed to come from, compared to
the solution used in draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-mcast and
draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn.


-Thomas



2012-07-12, Ross Callon:
> Thomas, Ravi, Mach;
>  
> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
>  
> Note to authors: You have been CC’d on this email so that you can
> know that this review is going on. However, please do not review your
> own document. 
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
> useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational
> networks), and is the document technically sound?  We are interested
> in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG
> adoption (ie, it doesn’t have to be perfect at this point, but should
> be a good start). 
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
> secretary, and CC’d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments
> may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
>  
> Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to the
> IETF meeting in Vancouver)?
>  
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>  

From thomas.morin@orange.com  Fri Jul 20 07:35:10 2012
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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:37:06 +0200
From: Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>
To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "George Swallow (swallow)" <swallow@cisco.com>, "lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn" <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, JOUNAY Frederic OCH <frederic.jounay@orange.ch>,  "ice@cisco.com" <ice@cisco.com>, Nic Leymann <N.Leymann@telekom.de>
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Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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Hi,

[please ignore my previous mail, sent before it was ready; my apologies]

I've reviewed this draft and here is my attempt at commenting on the
different aspects as expected for this review.

What the specs aim to achieve and the procedures described seem to me
as technically sound.

I am however, not convinced by all the use cases put forward in section
2. 

The first one is time synchronisation, but there is no detailed
explanation of why having a leaf-to-root path is needed ("PTP slave
might have to send also messages") nor why having this path be
co-routed is a benefit. 

The second one is IPTV ; one thing that bothers me is that with only
one router as the root, it seems that it will be very hard to implement
redundancy of the IGMP Querier function and source-side router and. 

The third application case is L2VPN, with a key claim being a reduced
operational cost due to having less LDP state in the network. For VPLS,
I don't understand where the gain is supposed to come from, compared to
the solution used in draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-mcast and
draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn.

So, I would say that the draft is in a good shape for being considered
for adoption. In my own view, the use cases would need to be more
strongly backed and/or more detailed (and if necessary, the claims of
applicability reduced) but discussing this is a natural part of a
debate on adoption.

Thanks,

-Thomas



2012-07-12, Ross Callon:
> Thomas, Ravi, Mach;
>  
> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
>  
> Note to authors: You have been CC’d on this email so that you can
> know that this review is going on. However, please do not review your
> own document. 
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
> useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational
> networks), and is the document technically sound?  We are interested
> in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG
> adoption (ie, it doesn’t have to be perfect at this point, but should
> be a good start). 
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
> secretary, and CC’d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments
> may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
>  
> Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to the
> IETF meeting in Vancouver)?
>  
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>  

From jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com  Fri Jul 20 10:11:45 2012
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From: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:12:31 -0400
Thread-Topic: [mpls] implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label  ???
Thread-Index: Ac1mmtuHCHmZyBb/Ski0QtOttV+3aw==
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Subject: Re: [mpls] implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label  ???
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Hi Loa,

We intend to implement entropy label and are happy with latest version of t=
he draft, all the concerns we have had were discussed with the author and h=
ave been addressed.

Regards,
Jeff

On Jul 20, 2012, at 5:20, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working Group,
>=20
> I had one comment off-line on this pointing that we are also
> interested in "intention to implement"!
>=20
> Please also respond if you intend to implement!
>=20
> /Loa
>=20
> On 2012-07-19 13:36, Loa Andersson wrote:
>> Working Group,
>>=20
>> we are preparing the request for publication for
>> draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label, as part of the shepherd write-up
>> we need to know about existing implementations.
>>=20
>> Please send mails to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org) or the
>> working group chairs to inform us about implementations.
>>=20
>> /Loa
>> (as wg co-chair)
>=20
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From ravis@juniper.net  Fri Jul 20 16:30:00 2012
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From: Ravi Singh <ravis@juniper.net>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:29:00 -0700
Thread-Topic: [mpls] implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label  ???
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Subject: Re: [mpls] implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label  ???
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Hello Loa

Juniper is planning to implement this.

Regards
Ravi


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Loa Andersson
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:20 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label
> ???
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
> I had one comment off-line on this pointing that we are also
> interested in "intention to implement"!
>=20
> Please also respond if you intend to implement!
>=20
> /Loa
>=20
> On 2012-07-19 13:36, Loa Andersson wrote:
> > Working Group,
> >
> > we are preparing the request for publication for
> > draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label, as part of the shepherd write-up
> > we need to know about existing implementations.
> >
> > Please send mails to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org) or the
> > working group chairs to inform us about implementations.
> >
> > /Loa
> > (as wg co-chair)
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From mjork@juniper.net  Fri Jul 20 19:08:37 2012
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From: Markus Jork <mjork@juniper.net>
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>, Giles Heron <giheron@cisco.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:06:39 -0400
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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I have reviewed draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03 and have some concer=
ns and suggestions.=09

I believe the draft would benefit from a more rigorous definition and exami=
nation of its proposed procedures. RFC 5036 has the basic assumption that a=
n LDP session with a peer has at least one or more hello adjacencies. It is=
 not entirely clear to me whether the draft proposes to maintain this rule =
or to change it by no longer requiring the existence of a hello adjacency t=
o maintain the LDP session.

Most sections of the draft seem to imply that the hello adjacency continues=
 to exist once the infinite hold time has been agreed upon. That is suggest=
ed by statements like this:

>   After the
>   session is operational the periodic Targeted Hellos between the LSRs
>   become redundant, as session Keepalives in turn serves the intent of
>   each LSR to maintain its adjacency to its peer.

But when the hello adjacency continues to exist, that means each side can s=
end an updated hello message at any time. That hello could request a short =
hold time again which is in apparent contradiction to the draft's claim tha=
t it helps mitigate DoS attacks based on spurious hellos.

I believe the draft should define the exact nature and extent of the hello =
adjacency:
- does it really continue to exist after the hold time is set to infinite?
- is it maintained by the fact that the LDP session still exists?
- is it maintained because the hold time is infinite and thus it actually w=
ill never cease to exist at all?
- does the loss of the LDP session trigger the deletion of the hello adjace=
ncy or does it just modify the nature of the hello adjacency?
- what is the treatment of new hello messages received after the targeted L=
DP hello reduction has been negotiated (i.e. the hold time is infinite)?=20

Once this is done, I think various implications will become clearer and mig=
ht expose problems. The hello adjacency does not just exist to enable the i=
nitial bring-up of the LDP session and to check connectivity to the peer. I=
t also conveys other information such as configuration changes.

At this time, without further clarification of the procedures, I am concern=
ed that the draft would cause an overall decrease in robustness of the LDP =
protocol.


Apart from these technical concerns, I also wonder about the need for this =
draft. Reducing signaling overhead to improve scaling is generally a good t=
hing. However, sending of UDP hellos is not typically a pain point as there=
 are well known implementation techniques to deal with that. And if reducin=
g the hellos involves changes to the well established and proven LDP protoc=
ol machinery, then I'm kind of doubtful that it's worth it.

-Markus


_____________________________________________
From: Ross Callon=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:50 PM
To: Markus Jork; lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn; Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de
Cc: loa@pi.nu; swallow@cisco.com; Ross Callon; Martin Vigoureux; Dutta, Pra=
njal K (Pranjal); Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03


Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;

You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03

Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know that=
=20
this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.=20

Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
(ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
the document technically sound?=A0 We are interested in knowing whether the=
=20
document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to
be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).=20
=A0
Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,
and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent=20
privately to only the WG chairs.=20
=A0
Are you able to review this draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IET=
F=20
meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice and=
 =20
that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us=20
know if you need slightly more time.=20
=A0
Thanks, Ross
(as MPLS WG chair)

PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau's email address listed in the draft is out of=
 date. This email is being CC'd to his updated address.=20

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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Yes, support.

Lizhong

> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 19:20:22 +0200
> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
> Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>,   "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org"
>    <mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org>
> Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for
>    draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
> Message-ID: <500841D6.40402@pi.nu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Working group,
> 
> this is to start a "two week" poll on adopting
> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03
> as an MPLS working group document.
> 
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
> 
> Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end
> Aug 7th, 2012.
> 
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> -- 
> 
> 
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13
> 
> 
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Yes, support.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Lizhong</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
&gt; ------------------------------<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Message: 3<br>
&gt; Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 19:20:22 +0200<br>
&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
&gt; To: &quot;mpls@ietf.org&quot; &lt;mpls@ietf.org&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: &quot;mpls@ietf.org&quot; &lt;mpls@ietf.org&gt;, &nbsp; &quot;mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;&lt;mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv<br>
&gt; Message-ID: &lt;500841D6.40402@pi.nu&gt;<br>
&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Working group,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; this is to start a &quot;two week&quot; poll on adopting<br>
&gt; draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03<br>
&gt; as an MPLS working group document.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working<br>
&gt; group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end<br>
&gt; Aug 7th, 2012.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; /Loa<br>
&gt; (mpls wg co-chair)<br>
&gt; -- <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Loa Andersson &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com<br>
&gt; Sr Strategy and Standards Manager &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;loa@pi.nu<br>
&gt; Ericsson Inc &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;phone: +46 10 717 52 13<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; +46 767 72 92 13<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; </font>
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From adrian@olddog.co.uk  Sat Jul 21 04:16:08 2012
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Reuqest for suggestion
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I haven't done a detailed review, but something amusing jumped out at =
me.
=20
In the Introduction you quite rightly point out that if the reporting of
latency, jitter and loss are not available from a specific domain then =
it will
not be possible to use BRPC to compute an optimal (or adequate) =
end-to-end path.
However, you then go on to give this as a reason to make functional =
additions to
RSVP-TE.  Does it not occur to you that if one domain does not support =
the
signaling of latency, jitter and loss (and their collection in the =
routing
protocols) then your I-D will not work.
=20
Thus, your argument "if idea A is not supported it will not work" =
bounces back
on you :-)
=20
Adrian
=20
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
Sent: 19 July 2012 15:59
To: mpls@ietf.org; rsvp-dir@ietf.org
Cc: rcallon@juniper.net
Subject: Re: [mpls] Reuqest for suggestion
=20

Hi All,=20

I forwarded this mail to MPLS WG and rsvp-directorate according to Lou's
suggestion in order to get comments from WG.=20
Thanks Lou's suggestion. It is very valuable.=20
Following is the requirement to extend RSVP-TE to deal with delay/loss =
traffic
engineering application.=20

We defined SENDER_TSPEC, ADSPEC and FLOWSPEC sub-object, i.e., option 2 =
as Lou
suggested.=20
Following is the latest draft. We didn't upload it to MPLS WG website.=20


Any comments are appreciated.=20

Xihua=20

Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>=20
2012-03-05 =CF=C2=CE=E7 10:20=20

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20

=B3=AD=CB=CD
rcallon@juniper.net, loa@pi.nu, swallow@cisco.com=20

=D6=F7=CC=E2
Re: Reuqest for suggestion
=20
	=09



Xihua,

I was really trying to make a technical point not a procedural one.  My
main point is that latency is part of service/QoS
description/characterization and that as such belongs in a
flowspec/tspec/adspec and not as a generic RSVP object.  For example,
the intserv ADSPEC already supports a latency parameter, and RFC2212
make claims related to latency.

One possible approach is to modify IntServ (as represented by RFC210) to
provide the new parameters you are looking for.  Another alternative is
to define an alternative flowspec/tspec format.

So, as I see it, there are three options:
1) Extend RSVP: New RSVP-level object/attribue
2) Extend IntServ: New IntServ parameter(s)
3) New Traffic Description: new c-type for RSVP adspec/flowspec/tspec

You are currently proposing option 1, and I'm suggesting that option 2
and 3 should be considered first.

With respect to working group.  I personally think having this work done
in MPLS is just fine, but others such as TSVWG should know about it.  Of
course, the chairs of these WGs and ADs may disagree.

Do you have any objection to bringing this discussion to the MPLS WG and
rsvp-directorate <rsvp-dir@ietf.org>?  If not, please just forward this
or let me know and I'll do so.

Lou

On 3/5/2012 3:09 AM, fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote:
>=20
> Hi Chairs,
>=20
> In Taibei meeting, Lou suggested
> _draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-rsvp-te-ext-00_
> =
<http://tools.ietf.org/html?draft=3Ddraft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-rsvp-te-ex=
t-00>
> may be done in Tsvwg related to IntServ.
>=20
> Minutes:
> /Lou: changes concern IntServ. should be done maybe in tsvwg. I =
support
> the objective but 100% in scope interv and out of scope of rsvp/
> /Ross: good question. need to be resolved offline/
> /Xihua: was in ccamp, now moved to mpls, but not sure rsvp is good =
place
> indeed/
> /Loa: decision will involve serveral chairs and ADs/
>=20
> Lou gave us a right direction, but it may involce serveral chairs. =
Would
> you like to give us some suggestions?
>=20
> Xihua Fu

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</style><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>I haven't done a detailed review, but something =
amusing jumped out at me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>In the Introduction you quite rightly point out =
that if the reporting of latency, jitter and loss are not available from =
a specific domain then it will not be possible to use BRPC to compute an =
optimal (or adequate) end-to-end path. However, you then go on to give =
this as a reason to make functional additions to RSVP-TE.<span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>Does it not occur to you that =
if one domain does not support the signaling of latency, jitter and loss =
(and their collection in the routing protocols) then your I-D will not =
work.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Thus, your argument &quot;if idea A is not =
supported it will not work&quot; bounces back on you =
:-)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'> mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<br><b>Sent:</b> 19 July 2012 =
15:59<br><b>To:</b> mpls@ietf.org; rsvp-dir@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
rcallon@juniper.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] Reuqest for =
suggestion<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
All,</span> <br><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I forwarded =
this mail to MPLS WG and rsvp-directorate according to Lou's suggestion =
in order to get comments from WG. </span><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks Lou's =
suggestion. It is very valuable.</span> <br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Following is =
the requirement to extend RSVP-TE to deal with delay/loss traffic =
engineering application.</span> <br><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We defined =
SENDER_TSPEC, ADSPEC and FLOWSPEC sub-object, i.e., option 2 as Lou =
suggested.</span> <br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Following is =
the latest draft. We didn't upload it to MPLS WG website.</span> =
<br><br><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Any comments =
are appreciated.</span> <br><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Xihua</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 =
width=3D"100%" =
style=3D'width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184'><tr =
style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'><td =
width=3D"36%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:36.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt =
.75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Lou Berger =
&lt;lberger@labn.net&gt;</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2012-03-05 =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;mso-hansi-font-famil=
y:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 10:20</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"63%" valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:63.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><table =
class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" =
style=3D'width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184'><tr =
style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes'><td valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;mso-hansi-font-famil=
y:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>fu.xihua@zte.c=
om.cn</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:1'><td =
valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;mso-hansi-font-famil=
y:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p></t=
d><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>rcallon@junipe=
r.net, loa@pi.nu, swallow@cisco.com</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr =
style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:2;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'><td valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;mso-hansi-font-famil=
y:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p></t=
d><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re: Reuqest =
for suggestion</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 =
style=3D'mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184'><tr =
style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'><td =
valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td><td =
valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt =
.75pt'></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><tt>Xihua,</tt><br><br><tt>I =
was really trying to make a technical point not a procedural one. =
&nbsp;My</tt><br><tt>main point is that latency is part of =
service/QoS</tt><br><tt>description/characterization and that as such =
belongs in a</tt><br><tt>flowspec/tspec/adspec and not as a generic RSVP =
object. &nbsp;For example,</tt><br><tt>the intserv ADSPEC already =
supports a latency parameter, and RFC2212</tt><br><tt>make claims =
related to latency.</tt><br><br><tt>One possible approach is to modify =
IntServ (as represented by RFC210) to</tt><br><tt>provide the new =
parameters you are looking for. &nbsp;Another alternative =
is</tt><br><tt>to define an alternative flowspec/tspec =
format.</tt><br><br><tt>So, as I see it, there are three =
options:</tt><br><tt>1) Extend RSVP: New RSVP-level =
object/attribue</tt><br><tt>2) Extend IntServ: New IntServ =
parameter(s)</tt><br><tt>3) New Traffic Description: new c-type for RSVP =
adspec/flowspec/tspec</tt><br><br><tt>You are currently proposing option =
1, and I'm suggesting that option 2</tt><br><tt>and 3 should be =
considered first.</tt><br><br><tt>With respect to working group. &nbsp;I =
personally think having this work done</tt><br><tt>in MPLS is just fine, =
but others such as TSVWG should know about it. =
&nbsp;Of</tt><br><tt>course, the chairs of these WGs and ADs may =
disagree.</tt><br><br><tt>Do you have any objection to bringing this =
discussion to the MPLS WG and</tt><br><tt>rsvp-directorate =
&lt;rsvp-dir@ietf.org&gt;? &nbsp;If not, please just forward =
this</tt><br><tt>or let me know and I'll do =
so.</tt><br><br><tt>Lou</tt><br><br><tt>On 3/5/2012 3:09 AM, =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote:</tt><br><tt>&gt; </tt><br><tt>&gt; Hi =
Chairs,</tt><br><tt>&gt; </tt><br><tt>&gt; In Taibei meeting, Lou =
suggested</tt><br><tt>&gt; =
_draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-rsvp-te-ext-00_</tt><br><tt>&gt; =
&lt;http://tools.ietf.org/html?draft=3Ddraft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-rsvp-te=
-ext-00&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; may be done in Tsvwg related to =
IntServ.</tt><br><tt>&gt; </tt><br><tt>&gt; Minutes:</tt><br><tt>&gt; =
/Lou: changes concern IntServ. should be done maybe in tsvwg. I =
support</tt><br><tt>&gt; the objective but 100% in scope interv and out =
of scope of rsvp/</tt><br><tt>&gt; /Ross: good question. need to be =
resolved offline/</tt><br><tt>&gt; /Xihua: was in ccamp, now moved to =
mpls, but not sure rsvp is good place</tt><br><tt>&gt; =
indeed/</tt><br><tt>&gt; /Loa: decision will involve serveral chairs and =
ADs/</tt><br><tt>&gt; </tt><br><tt>&gt; Lou gave us a right direction, =
but it may involce serveral chairs. Would</tt><br><tt>&gt; you like to =
give us some suggestions?</tt><br><tt>&gt; </tt><br><tt>&gt; Xihua =
Fu</tt><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0F01_01CD673A.BB23EBB0--


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From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" <eosborne@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:27:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for	draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv
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Support.



eric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Loa Andersson
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 1:20 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicabilit=
y-
> label-adv
>=20
> Working group,
>=20
> this is to start a "two week" poll on adopting
> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03
> as an MPLS working group document.
>=20
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>=20
> Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end
> Aug 7th, 2012.
>=20
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn  Sat Jul 21 07:48:35 2012
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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From pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com  Sat Jul 21 17:15:58 2012
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From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Markus Jork <mjork@juniper.net>, Giles Heron <giheron@cisco.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 05:46:40 +0530
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Please find the responses line. Please let me know if I had answered all co=
ncerns and if further clarification needed.

Thanks,
Pranjal

-----Original Message-----
From: Markus Jork [mailto:mjork@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 7:07 PM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau; mpls-chairs@too=
ls.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03

I have reviewed draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03 and have some concer=
ns and suggestions.=09

<Pranjal> Thanks for review and your suggestions. </Pranjal>

I believe the draft would benefit from a more rigorous definition and exami=
nation of its proposed procedures. RFC 5036 has the basic assumption that a=
n LDP session with a peer has at least one or more hello adjacencies. It is=
 not entirely clear to me whether the draft proposes to maintain this rule =
or to change it by no longer requiring the existence of a hello adjacency t=
o maintain the LDP session.

<Pranjal> This draft does not change or violate procedures defined in RFC 5=
036. It proposes an OPTIONAL method of reduction of "targeted' hellos (only=
 - as the name of the draft suggests) and the proposed method is backward c=
ompatible with procedures defined in RFC 5036. The method uses the hello ti=
meout negotiation procedures as per RFC 5035 without any changes in negotia=
tion procedures.

The method proposed in the draft reduces the hellos (precisely the rate of =
hellos) required to be exchanged periodically to maintain the hello adjacen=
cy between two targeted peering LSRs. Hello adjacencies are maintained as i=
s as per RFC 5035. There can be only one targeted adjacency to a peer. If o=
ne t-ldp peer supports the hello reduction procedures but the other peer do=
es not, then the procedures result in no hello reduction and state of LDP s=
ession, adjacency remain as defined in RFC 5036. Implementations supporting=
 the hello reduction procedures in the draft have been deployed with non-co=
mpatible peering implementations.  </Pranjal>

Most sections of the draft seem to imply that the hello adjacency continues=
 to exist once the infinite hold time has been agreed upon. That is suggest=
ed by statements like this:

>   After the
>   session is operational the periodic Targeted Hellos between the LSRs
>   become redundant, as session Keepalives in turn serves the intent of
>   each LSR to maintain its adjacency to its peer.

<Pranjal> That is correct. Hello adjacencies continue to exist. </Pranjal>

But when the hello adjacency continues to exist, that means each side can s=
end an updated hello message at any time. That hello could request a short =
hold time again which is in apparent contradiction to the draft's claim tha=
t it helps mitigate DoS attacks based on spurious hellos.

<Pranjal> That is correct. Hellos are connection less and a peer MAY update=
 the hello message anytime and any of its parameters (configSeqNum, Hello H=
oldTime etc). If we refer to RFC 5036 procedures of Hello negotiations, res=
pective timers (both hello tx and adj timeout) would get re-adjusted by bot=
h peers if any of the participating peers decide to change the hold time
On the fly.

This draft does not claim to prevent DoS attacks (It can't!). The reduction=
 of hellos provides probabilistically better resiliency on maintenance of h=
ello adjacency during sporadic DoS attacks. Sporadic DoS attacks on UDP por=
t 646 can result in loss of "good" hello packets for certain period of time=
 and thus leading to loss of existing adjacencies. We can certainly claim t=
hat it is "implementation specific" and implementations can do proper flow =
control of existing hello adjacencies (up and running) with H/w assisted fl=
ow control/filtering etc and penalizing only the hellos classified as "culp=
rit" by such techniques. The draft does not keep a uniform view of LDP "imp=
lementations". I wouldn't intend to go too deep into various proven techniq=
ues already out there for years, but note that there are various cost funct=
ions associated with such techniques. Not all kinds of systems/implementati=
ons would like to implement such H/w assisted techniques. There could be sy=
stems that interfaces with large number of t-ldp peerings in mobility backh=
auls or access/aggregation networks(e.g 10K t-ldp peers) but does not need =
to deliver core data path functionalities (number of ldp tunnels, pseudowir=
es per t-ldp peering are relatively small)
and so is the h/w assisted supported for faster hellos. </Pranjal>

I believe the draft should define the exact nature and extent of the hello =
adjacency:
- does it really continue to exist after the hold time is set to infinite?

<Pranjal> Yes, we can clarify that in detail in the draft. I agree that it =
may not be apparent that RFC 5035 procedures are retained as is. The Hello =
adjacencies continue to exist "as is" as per RFC 5036.  </Pranjal>

- is it maintained by the fact that the LDP session still exists?

<Pranjal> That's correct. If hello adjacencies exist then sessions would co=
ntinue to exist as long as session "keeplives" keep the sessions alive. </P=
ranjal>=20

- is it maintained because the hold time is infinite and thus it actually w=
ill never cease to exist at all?

<Pranjal> It depends on case by case. The draft doesn't say that implementa=
tion is MANDATORY. For example when transport address of the=20
LDP session is different from the IP addresses used to exchange t-ldp hello=
s, then probably it is not RECOMMENDED to use hello reduction procedures, s=
ince sessions keepallives are not really substitute of "reachability". The =
draft intends to provide generic building block.

</Pranjal>

- does the loss of the LDP session trigger the deletion of the hello adjace=
ncy or does it just modify the nature of the hello adjacency?

<Pranjal> This draft does not differ from RFC 5036 on this aspect. However=
=20
Hello reduction procedures would restart (would fall back to hold time as=20
Configured in peers) when there is loss of session or loss of adjacency. Th=
us the procedures allow fast/aggressive hello timers to be configured in=20
large scale deployments (5K T-LDP peers) for faster discovery/session set-u=
p,  but results in reduced hellos while sessions/adjacencies are being main=
tained. Section 4 point 3 mentions that hello reduction procedures start on=
ly after LDP session is established.=20

Further section 4 states below:

"4. If the LDP session between two LSRs fails leading to tearing down
      of adjacency, then each LSR reverts to advertising their
      configured hello hold time and repeats procedure 1 to 3."


</Pranjal>

- what is the treatment of new hello messages received after the targeted L=
DP hello reduction has been negotiated (i.e. the hold time is infinite)?=20

<Pranjal> It would help if you could clarify what is meant by "new hellos".=
=20
AFAIK, there can be only one targeted hello adjacency with a t-ldp peer tha=
t=20
is identified by a unique LDP LSR-ID. The procedures does not apply to link=
=20
Hello adjacencies since link hellos are continued to be sent over an interf=
ace at "configured rate" in order to keep discovering new hellos/peers over=
 a broadcast interface.=20
</Pranjal>

Once this is done, I think various implications will become clearer and mig=
ht expose problems. The hello adjacency does not just exist to enable the i=
nitial bring-up of the LDP session and to check connectivity to the peer. I=
t also conveys other information such as configuration changes.

<Pranjal> The draft does not say that any updates in hellos must not be ref=
lected while reduction is in process. A t-ldp peer can reflect the any chan=
ges in hello parameters immediately and that doesn't break hello reduction =
if already in progress.  We can clarify that in the draft.  An update in co=
nfig seq number doesn't necessitate that configured hold time be re-adverti=
sed rather than reduced hold time (reached at the time of change), unless t=
he configured hold time itself is changed. If configured hold time is chang=
ed, the procedures can be restarted by advertising the updated hello hold t=
ime by the t-ldp peer.
       =20
</Pranjal>

At this time, without further clarification of the procedures, I am concern=
ed that the draft would cause an overall decrease in robustness of the LDP =
protocol.

<Pranjal> Hello reduction procedures are working in production networks wit=
h compatible and non-compatible implementations. Since you are raising=20
the question of "decrease in robustness of the LDP protocol", it would be g=
reat if you could precisely lay down the issues, algorithms in RFC 5036=20
that are violated by this draft that would lead to degraded LDP. The draft =
further says that the procedures are OPTIONAL. In order to participate in h=
ello reduction both t-ldp peers need to support the reduction procedures bu=
t when there is asymmetric case the procedures fall back to as described in=
 RFC 5036. The draft is simply using hello timer negotiation techniques as =
defined in RFC 5036 to achieve reduction. In the draft we didn't intend to=
=20
re-describe the Hello Negotiation procedures in RFC 5036 since it makes a=20
normative reference to the latter anyway.=20

</Pranjal>


Apart from these technical concerns, I also wonder about the need for this =
draft. Reducing signaling overhead to improve scaling is generally a good t=
hing. However, sending of UDP hellos is not typically a pain point as there=
 are well known implementation techniques to deal with that. And if reducin=
g the hellos involves changes to the well established and proven LDP protoc=
ol machinery, then I'm kind of doubtful that it's worth it.

<Pranjal> I would like to re-iterate the fact that the draft doesn't introd=
uce any "new" negotiation procedures to achieve hello reduction.=20
It "reuses" the hello reduction procedures as per RFC 5036 and thus it is=20
backward compatible. I already mentioned that the draft does not take unifo=
rm view of LDP implementations.=20

Excepts from the draft -=20

   "large number of LDP sessions (in thousands) to targeted peers, it
   is an additional burden to send and receive Targeted Hellos for all
   peers at periodic intervals. In MPLS deployments at access or
   mobility backhaul, there can be very large volume of LDP sessions
   with targeted LDP adjacencies. Moreover additional mechanisms such as
   centralized BFD [BFD] may be used to track liveliness of ldp
   sessions."

When there are deployments that can use BFD to track T-LDP peers, the Hello=
s=20
become almost redundant after initial discovery and session set-up. It is d=
efinitely a pain when you configure aggressive hello timers for faster sess=
ion set-up (which is a mandate in certain deployments for fast failure reco=
very with ~ 10K t-ldp peers after a network outage) and yet need to maintai=
n the adjacencies thru hellos when BFD (or likewise) techniques are used to=
 track reachability of existing adjacencies "after" adjacencies are formed.=
 While it can be still be achieved by sending aggressive hellos at start bu=
t with larger hold time (thus both peer would have a very large timeout), b=
ut note that aggressive timeouts are desirable as well to tear down spuriou=
s hellos ASAP.

</Pranjal>=20

-Markus


_____________________________________________
From: Ross Callon=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:50 PM
To: Markus Jork; lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn; Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de
Cc: loa@pi.nu; swallow@cisco.com; Ross Callon; Martin Vigoureux; Dutta, Pra=
njal K (Pranjal); Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03


Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;

You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03

Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know that=
=20
this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.=20

Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
(ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
the document technically sound?=A0 We are interested in knowing whether the=
=20
document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to
be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).=20
=A0
Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,
and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent=20
privately to only the WG chairs.=20
=A0
Are you able to review this draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IET=
F=20
meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice and=
 =20
that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us=20
know if you need slightly more time.=20
=A0
Thanks, Ross
(as MPLS WG chair)

PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau's email address listed in the draft is out of=
 date. This email is being CC'd to his updated address.=20

From mjork@juniper.net  Sun Jul 22 19:43:05 2012
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From: Markus Jork <mjork@juniper.net>
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>, Giles Heron <giheron@cisco.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX,  MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 22:42:27 -0400
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Pranjal,

Thanks for your detailed response. The section on DoS attacks in the draft =
caused some doubts for me whether you are really going to keep the hello ad=
jacency in place or whether you were planning to drop hello messages (after=
 agreeing on infinite hold time). Your answer now clarifies that each side =
can send an updated hello message at any time. So I believe that addresses =
my concerns which were mostly about what happens when one side has a config=
uration change.

There is one scenario not mentioned in the draft that might be good to at l=
east acknowledge: in addition to the one targeted hello adjacency for which=
 the hello reduction is applied, there could also be any number of link adj=
acencies (without hello reduction of course) between the same pair of peers=
 at the same time. The way the draft is worded suggests that it is not real=
ly considering that case. However, I can't really think of a problem with t=
hat right now.

-Markus

-----Original Message-----
From: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) [mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com]=
=20
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 8:17 PM
To: Markus Jork; Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; VI=
GOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03

Please find the responses line. Please let me know if I had answered all co=
ncerns and if further clarification needed.

Thanks,
Pranjal

-----Original Message-----
From: Markus Jork [mailto:mjork@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 7:07 PM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau; mpls-chairs@too=
ls.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03

I have reviewed draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03 and have some concer=
ns and suggestions.=09

<Pranjal> Thanks for review and your suggestions. </Pranjal>

I believe the draft would benefit from a more rigorous definition and exami=
nation of its proposed procedures. RFC 5036 has the basic assumption that a=
n LDP session with a peer has at least one or more hello adjacencies. It is=
 not entirely clear to me whether the draft proposes to maintain this rule =
or to change it by no longer requiring the existence of a hello adjacency t=
o maintain the LDP session.

<Pranjal> This draft does not change or violate procedures defined in RFC 5=
036. It proposes an OPTIONAL method of reduction of "targeted' hellos (only=
 - as the name of the draft suggests) and the proposed method is backward c=
ompatible with procedures defined in RFC 5036. The method uses the hello ti=
meout negotiation procedures as per RFC 5035 without any changes in negotia=
tion procedures.

The method proposed in the draft reduces the hellos (precisely the rate of =
hellos) required to be exchanged periodically to maintain the hello adjacen=
cy between two targeted peering LSRs. Hello adjacencies are maintained as i=
s as per RFC 5035. There can be only one targeted adjacency to a peer. If o=
ne t-ldp peer supports the hello reduction procedures but the other peer do=
es not, then the procedures result in no hello reduction and state of LDP s=
ession, adjacency remain as defined in RFC 5036. Implementations supporting=
 the hello reduction procedures in the draft have been deployed with non-co=
mpatible peering implementations.  </Pranjal>

Most sections of the draft seem to imply that the hello adjacency continues=
 to exist once the infinite hold time has been agreed upon. That is suggest=
ed by statements like this:

>   After the
>   session is operational the periodic Targeted Hellos between the LSRs
>   become redundant, as session Keepalives in turn serves the intent of
>   each LSR to maintain its adjacency to its peer.

<Pranjal> That is correct. Hello adjacencies continue to exist. </Pranjal>

But when the hello adjacency continues to exist, that means each side can s=
end an updated hello message at any time. That hello could request a short =
hold time again which is in apparent contradiction to the draft's claim tha=
t it helps mitigate DoS attacks based on spurious hellos.

<Pranjal> That is correct. Hellos are connection less and a peer MAY update=
 the hello message anytime and any of its parameters (configSeqNum, Hello H=
oldTime etc). If we refer to RFC 5036 procedures of Hello negotiations, res=
pective timers (both hello tx and adj timeout) would get re-adjusted by bot=
h peers if any of the participating peers decide to change the hold time On=
 the fly.

This draft does not claim to prevent DoS attacks (It can't!). The reduction=
 of hellos provides probabilistically better resiliency on maintenance of h=
ello adjacency during sporadic DoS attacks. Sporadic DoS attacks on UDP por=
t 646 can result in loss of "good" hello packets for certain period of time=
 and thus leading to loss of existing adjacencies. We can certainly claim t=
hat it is "implementation specific" and implementations can do proper flow =
control of existing hello adjacencies (up and running) with H/w assisted fl=
ow control/filtering etc and penalizing only the hellos classified as "culp=
rit" by such techniques. The draft does not keep a uniform view of LDP "imp=
lementations". I wouldn't intend to go too deep into various proven techniq=
ues already out there for years, but note that there are various cost funct=
ions associated with such techniques. Not all kinds of systems/implementati=
ons would like to implement such H/w assisted techniques. There could be sy=
stems that interfaces with large number of t-ldp peerings in mobility backh=
auls or access/aggregation networks(e.g 10K t-ldp peers) but does not need =
to deliver core data path functionalities (number of ldp tunnels, pseudowir=
es per t-ldp peering are relatively small) and so is the h/w assisted suppo=
rted for faster hellos. </Pranjal>

I believe the draft should define the exact nature and extent of the hello =
adjacency:
- does it really continue to exist after the hold time is set to infinite?

<Pranjal> Yes, we can clarify that in detail in the draft. I agree that it =
may not be apparent that RFC 5035 procedures are retained as is. The Hello =
adjacencies continue to exist "as is" as per RFC 5036.  </Pranjal>

- is it maintained by the fact that the LDP session still exists?

<Pranjal> That's correct. If hello adjacencies exist then sessions would co=
ntinue to exist as long as session "keeplives" keep the sessions alive. </P=
ranjal>=20

- is it maintained because the hold time is infinite and thus it actually w=
ill never cease to exist at all?

<Pranjal> It depends on case by case. The draft doesn't say that implementa=
tion is MANDATORY. For example when transport address of the LDP session is=
 different from the IP addresses used to exchange t-ldp hellos, then probab=
ly it is not RECOMMENDED to use hello reduction procedures, since sessions =
keepallives are not really substitute of "reachability". The draft intends =
to provide generic building block.

</Pranjal>

- does the loss of the LDP session trigger the deletion of the hello adjace=
ncy or does it just modify the nature of the hello adjacency?

<Pranjal> This draft does not differ from RFC 5036 on this aspect. However =
Hello reduction procedures would restart (would fall back to hold time as C=
onfigured in peers) when there is loss of session or loss of adjacency. Thu=
s the procedures allow fast/aggressive hello timers to be configured in lar=
ge scale deployments (5K T-LDP peers) for faster discovery/session set-up, =
 but results in reduced hellos while sessions/adjacencies are being maintai=
ned. Section 4 point 3 mentions that hello reduction procedures start only =
after LDP session is established.=20

Further section 4 states below:

"4. If the LDP session between two LSRs fails leading to tearing down
      of adjacency, then each LSR reverts to advertising their
      configured hello hold time and repeats procedure 1 to 3."


</Pranjal>

- what is the treatment of new hello messages received after the targeted L=
DP hello reduction has been negotiated (i.e. the hold time is infinite)?=20

<Pranjal> It would help if you could clarify what is meant by "new hellos".=
=20
AFAIK, there can be only one targeted hello adjacency with a t-ldp peer tha=
t is identified by a unique LDP LSR-ID. The procedures does not apply to li=
nk Hello adjacencies since link hellos are continued to be sent over an int=
erface at "configured rate" in order to keep discovering new hellos/peers o=
ver a broadcast interface.=20
</Pranjal>

Once this is done, I think various implications will become clearer and mig=
ht expose problems. The hello adjacency does not just exist to enable the i=
nitial bring-up of the LDP session and to check connectivity to the peer. I=
t also conveys other information such as configuration changes.

<Pranjal> The draft does not say that any updates in hellos must not be ref=
lected while reduction is in process. A t-ldp peer can reflect the any chan=
ges in hello parameters immediately and that doesn't break hello reduction =
if already in progress.  We can clarify that in the draft.  An update in co=
nfig seq number doesn't necessitate that configured hold time be re-adverti=
sed rather than reduced hold time (reached at the time of change), unless t=
he configured hold time itself is changed. If configured hold time is chang=
ed, the procedures can be restarted by advertising the updated hello hold t=
ime by the t-ldp peer.
       =20
</Pranjal>

At this time, without further clarification of the procedures, I am concern=
ed that the draft would cause an overall decrease in robustness of the LDP =
protocol.

<Pranjal> Hello reduction procedures are working in production networks wit=
h compatible and non-compatible implementations. Since you are raising the =
question of "decrease in robustness of the LDP protocol", it would be great=
 if you could precisely lay down the issues, algorithms in RFC 5036 that ar=
e violated by this draft that would lead to degraded LDP. The draft further=
 says that the procedures are OPTIONAL. In order to participate in hello re=
duction both t-ldp peers need to support the reduction procedures but when =
there is asymmetric case the procedures fall back to as described in RFC 50=
36. The draft is simply using hello timer negotiation techniques as defined=
 in RFC 5036 to achieve reduction. In the draft we didn't intend to re-desc=
ribe the Hello Negotiation procedures in RFC 5036 since it makes a normativ=
e reference to the latter anyway.=20

</Pranjal>


Apart from these technical concerns, I also wonder about the need for this =
draft. Reducing signaling overhead to improve scaling is generally a good t=
hing. However, sending of UDP hellos is not typically a pain point as there=
 are well known implementation techniques to deal with that. And if reducin=
g the hellos involves changes to the well established and proven LDP protoc=
ol machinery, then I'm kind of doubtful that it's worth it.

<Pranjal> I would like to re-iterate the fact that the draft doesn't introd=
uce any "new" negotiation procedures to achieve hello reduction.=20
It "reuses" the hello reduction procedures as per RFC 5036 and thus it is b=
ackward compatible. I already mentioned that the draft does not take unifor=
m view of LDP implementations.=20

Excepts from the draft -=20

   "large number of LDP sessions (in thousands) to targeted peers, it
   is an additional burden to send and receive Targeted Hellos for all
   peers at periodic intervals. In MPLS deployments at access or
   mobility backhaul, there can be very large volume of LDP sessions
   with targeted LDP adjacencies. Moreover additional mechanisms such as
   centralized BFD [BFD] may be used to track liveliness of ldp
   sessions."

When there are deployments that can use BFD to track T-LDP peers, the Hello=
s become almost redundant after initial discovery and session set-up. It is=
 definitely a pain when you configure aggressive hello timers for faster se=
ssion set-up (which is a mandate in certain deployments for fast failure re=
covery with ~ 10K t-ldp peers after a network outage) and yet need to maint=
ain the adjacencies thru hellos when BFD (or likewise) techniques are used =
to track reachability of existing adjacencies "after" adjacencies are forme=
d. While it can be still be achieved by sending aggressive hellos at start =
but with larger hold time (thus both peer would have a very large timeout),=
 but note that aggressive timeouts are desirable as well to tear down spuri=
ous hellos ASAP.

</Pranjal>=20

-Markus


_____________________________________________
From: Ross Callon
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:50 PM
To: Markus Jork; lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn; Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de
Cc: loa@pi.nu; swallow@cisco.com; Ross Callon; Martin Vigoureux; Dutta, Pra=
njal K (Pranjal); Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03


Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;

You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03

Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know that=
=20
this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.=20

Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
(ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
the document technically sound?=A0 We are interested in knowing whether the=
=20
document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to
be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).=20
=A0
Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,
and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent=20
privately to only the WG chairs.=20
=A0
Are you able to review this draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IET=
F=20
meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice and=
 =20
that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us=20
know if you need slightly more time.=20
=A0
Thanks, Ross
(as MPLS WG chair)

PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau's email address listed in the draft is out of=
 date. This email is being CC'd to his updated address.=20

From pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com  Sun Jul 22 19:49:01 2012
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From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Markus Jork <mjork@juniper.net>, Giles Heron <giheron@cisco.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Hi Markus,
            Thanks for your response. I agree that in its current state the=
 draft does not clarify about non-applicability of the proposed method on l=
ink adjacencies associated with the t-ldp peering session. We would explici=
tly clarify all the points mentioned in by your review. Thanks again for th=
e detailed review.

Cheers,
Pranjal


-----Original Message-----
From: Markus Jork [mailto:mjork@juniper.net]
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 7:42 PM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau; mpls-chairs@too=
ls.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03

Pranjal,

Thanks for your detailed response. The section on DoS attacks in the draft =
caused some doubts for me whether you are really going to keep the hello ad=
jacency in place or whether you were planning to drop hello messages (after=
 agreeing on infinite hold time). Your answer now clarifies that each side =
can send an updated hello message at any time. So I believe that addresses =
my concerns which were mostly about what happens when one side has a config=
uration change.

There is one scenario not mentioned in the draft that might be good to at l=
east acknowledge: in addition to the one targeted hello adjacency for which=
 the hello reduction is applied, there could also be any number of link adj=
acencies (without hello reduction of course) between the same pair of peers=
 at the same time. The way the draft is worded suggests that it is not real=
ly considering that case. However, I can't really think of a problem with t=
hat right now.

-Markus

-----Original Message-----
From: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) [mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 8:17 PM
To: Markus Jork; Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; VI=
GOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03

Please find the responses line. Please let me know if I had answered all co=
ncerns and if further clarification needed.

Thanks,
Pranjal

-----Original Message-----
From: Markus Jork [mailto:mjork@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 7:07 PM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau; mpls-chairs@too=
ls.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03

I have reviewed draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03 and have some concer=
ns and suggestions.

<Pranjal> Thanks for review and your suggestions. </Pranjal>

I believe the draft would benefit from a more rigorous definition and exami=
nation of its proposed procedures. RFC 5036 has the basic assumption that a=
n LDP session with a peer has at least one or more hello adjacencies. It is=
 not entirely clear to me whether the draft proposes to maintain this rule =
or to change it by no longer requiring the existence of a hello adjacency t=
o maintain the LDP session.

<Pranjal> This draft does not change or violate procedures defined in RFC 5=
036. It proposes an OPTIONAL method of reduction of "targeted' hellos (only=
 - as the name of the draft suggests) and the proposed method is backward c=
ompatible with procedures defined in RFC 5036. The method uses the hello ti=
meout negotiation procedures as per RFC 5035 without any changes in negotia=
tion procedures.

The method proposed in the draft reduces the hellos (precisely the rate of =
hellos) required to be exchanged periodically to maintain the hello adjacen=
cy between two targeted peering LSRs. Hello adjacencies are maintained as i=
s as per RFC 5035. There can be only one targeted adjacency to a peer. If o=
ne t-ldp peer supports the hello reduction procedures but the other peer do=
es not, then the procedures result in no hello reduction and state of LDP s=
ession, adjacency remain as defined in RFC 5036. Implementations supporting=
 the hello reduction procedures in the draft have been deployed with non-co=
mpatible peering implementations.  </Pranjal>

Most sections of the draft seem to imply that the hello adjacency continues=
 to exist once the infinite hold time has been agreed upon. That is suggest=
ed by statements like this:

>   After the
>   session is operational the periodic Targeted Hellos between the LSRs
>   become redundant, as session Keepalives in turn serves the intent of
>   each LSR to maintain its adjacency to its peer.

<Pranjal> That is correct. Hello adjacencies continue to exist. </Pranjal>

But when the hello adjacency continues to exist, that means each side can s=
end an updated hello message at any time. That hello could request a short =
hold time again which is in apparent contradiction to the draft's claim tha=
t it helps mitigate DoS attacks based on spurious hellos.

<Pranjal> That is correct. Hellos are connection less and a peer MAY update=
 the hello message anytime and any of its parameters (configSeqNum, Hello H=
oldTime etc). If we refer to RFC 5036 procedures of Hello negotiations, res=
pective timers (both hello tx and adj timeout) would get re-adjusted by bot=
h peers if any of the participating peers decide to change the hold time On=
 the fly.

This draft does not claim to prevent DoS attacks (It can't!). The reduction=
 of hellos provides probabilistically better resiliency on maintenance of h=
ello adjacency during sporadic DoS attacks. Sporadic DoS attacks on UDP por=
t 646 can result in loss of "good" hello packets for certain period of time=
 and thus leading to loss of existing adjacencies. We can certainly claim t=
hat it is "implementation specific" and implementations can do proper flow =
control of existing hello adjacencies (up and running) with H/w assisted fl=
ow control/filtering etc and penalizing only the hellos classified as "culp=
rit" by such techniques. The draft does not keep a uniform view of LDP "imp=
lementations". I wouldn't intend to go too deep into various proven techniq=
ues already out there for years, but note that there are various cost funct=
ions associated with such techniques. Not all kinds of systems/implementati=
ons would like to implement such H/w assisted techniques. There could be sy=
stems that interfaces with large number of t-ldp peerings in mobility backh=
auls or access/aggregation networks(e.g 10K t-ldp peers) but does not need =
to deliver core data path functionalities (number of ldp tunnels, pseudowir=
es per t-ldp peering are relatively small) and so is the h/w assisted suppo=
rted for faster hellos. </Pranjal>

I believe the draft should define the exact nature and extent of the hello =
adjacency:
- does it really continue to exist after the hold time is set to infinite?

<Pranjal> Yes, we can clarify that in detail in the draft. I agree that it =
may not be apparent that RFC 5035 procedures are retained as is. The Hello =
adjacencies continue to exist "as is" as per RFC 5036.  </Pranjal>

- is it maintained by the fact that the LDP session still exists?

<Pranjal> That's correct. If hello adjacencies exist then sessions would co=
ntinue to exist as long as session "keeplives" keep the sessions alive. </P=
ranjal>

- is it maintained because the hold time is infinite and thus it actually w=
ill never cease to exist at all?

<Pranjal> It depends on case by case. The draft doesn't say that implementa=
tion is MANDATORY. For example when transport address of the LDP session is=
 different from the IP addresses used to exchange t-ldp hellos, then probab=
ly it is not RECOMMENDED to use hello reduction procedures, since sessions =
keepallives are not really substitute of "reachability". The draft intends =
to provide generic building block.

</Pranjal>

- does the loss of the LDP session trigger the deletion of the hello adjace=
ncy or does it just modify the nature of the hello adjacency?

<Pranjal> This draft does not differ from RFC 5036 on this aspect. However =
Hello reduction procedures would restart (would fall back to hold time as C=
onfigured in peers) when there is loss of session or loss of adjacency. Thu=
s the procedures allow fast/aggressive hello timers to be configured in lar=
ge scale deployments (5K T-LDP peers) for faster discovery/session set-up, =
 but results in reduced hellos while sessions/adjacencies are being maintai=
ned. Section 4 point 3 mentions that hello reduction procedures start only =
after LDP session is established.

Further section 4 states below:

"4. If the LDP session between two LSRs fails leading to tearing down
      of adjacency, then each LSR reverts to advertising their
      configured hello hold time and repeats procedure 1 to 3."


</Pranjal>

- what is the treatment of new hello messages received after the targeted L=
DP hello reduction has been negotiated (i.e. the hold time is infinite)?

<Pranjal> It would help if you could clarify what is meant by "new hellos".
AFAIK, there can be only one targeted hello adjacency with a t-ldp peer tha=
t is identified by a unique LDP LSR-ID. The procedures does not apply to li=
nk Hello adjacencies since link hellos are continued to be sent over an int=
erface at "configured rate" in order to keep discovering new hellos/peers o=
ver a broadcast interface.
</Pranjal>

Once this is done, I think various implications will become clearer and mig=
ht expose problems. The hello adjacency does not just exist to enable the i=
nitial bring-up of the LDP session and to check connectivity to the peer. I=
t also conveys other information such as configuration changes.

<Pranjal> The draft does not say that any updates in hellos must not be ref=
lected while reduction is in process. A t-ldp peer can reflect the any chan=
ges in hello parameters immediately and that doesn't break hello reduction =
if already in progress.  We can clarify that in the draft.  An update in co=
nfig seq number doesn't necessitate that configured hold time be re-adverti=
sed rather than reduced hold time (reached at the time of change), unless t=
he configured hold time itself is changed. If configured hold time is chang=
ed, the procedures can be restarted by advertising the updated hello hold t=
ime by the t-ldp peer.

</Pranjal>

At this time, without further clarification of the procedures, I am concern=
ed that the draft would cause an overall decrease in robustness of the LDP =
protocol.

<Pranjal> Hello reduction procedures are working in production networks wit=
h compatible and non-compatible implementations. Since you are raising the =
question of "decrease in robustness of the LDP protocol", it would be great=
 if you could precisely lay down the issues, algorithms in RFC 5036 that ar=
e violated by this draft that would lead to degraded LDP. The draft further=
 says that the procedures are OPTIONAL. In order to participate in hello re=
duction both t-ldp peers need to support the reduction procedures but when =
there is asymmetric case the procedures fall back to as described in RFC 50=
36. The draft is simply using hello timer negotiation techniques as defined=
 in RFC 5036 to achieve reduction. In the draft we didn't intend to re-desc=
ribe the Hello Negotiation procedures in RFC 5036 since it makes a normativ=
e reference to the latter anyway.

</Pranjal>


Apart from these technical concerns, I also wonder about the need for this =
draft. Reducing signaling overhead to improve scaling is generally a good t=
hing. However, sending of UDP hellos is not typically a pain point as there=
 are well known implementation techniques to deal with that. And if reducin=
g the hellos involves changes to the well established and proven LDP protoc=
ol machinery, then I'm kind of doubtful that it's worth it.

<Pranjal> I would like to re-iterate the fact that the draft doesn't introd=
uce any "new" negotiation procedures to achieve hello reduction.
It "reuses" the hello reduction procedures as per RFC 5036 and thus it is b=
ackward compatible. I already mentioned that the draft does not take unifor=
m view of LDP implementations.

Excepts from the draft -

   "large number of LDP sessions (in thousands) to targeted peers, it
   is an additional burden to send and receive Targeted Hellos for all
   peers at periodic intervals. In MPLS deployments at access or
   mobility backhaul, there can be very large volume of LDP sessions
   with targeted LDP adjacencies. Moreover additional mechanisms such as
   centralized BFD [BFD] may be used to track liveliness of ldp
   sessions."

When there are deployments that can use BFD to track T-LDP peers, the Hello=
s become almost redundant after initial discovery and session set-up. It is=
 definitely a pain when you configure aggressive hello timers for faster se=
ssion set-up (which is a mandate in certain deployments for fast failure re=
covery with ~ 10K t-ldp peers after a network outage) and yet need to maint=
ain the adjacencies thru hellos when BFD (or likewise) techniques are used =
to track reachability of existing adjacencies "after" adjacencies are forme=
d. While it can be still be achieved by sending aggressive hellos at start =
but with larger hold time (thus both peer would have a very large timeout),=
 but note that aggressive timeouts are desirable as well to tear down spuri=
ous hellos ASAP.

</Pranjal>

-Markus


_____________________________________________
From: Ross Callon
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:50 PM
To: Markus Jork; lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn; Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de
Cc: loa@pi.nu; swallow@cisco.com; Ross Callon; Martin Vigoureux; Dutta, Pra=
njal K (Pranjal); Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03


Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;

You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03

Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know that
this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.

Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
(ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the
document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to
be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).

Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,
and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
privately to only the WG chairs.

Are you able to review this draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IET=
F
meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice and
that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us
know if you need slightly more time.

Thanks, Ross
(as MPLS WG chair)

PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau's email address listed in the draft is out of=
 date. This email is being CC'd to his updated address.

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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:=
 space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-si=
ze: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>We should reword. The lo=
gic should be something like in order to support establishment of LSPs meet=
ing performance bounds across multiple domains, signaling extensions are ne=
eded since the IGP method used within a single domain is not sufficient.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>I envision a new capability being first introduced i=
n a cooperating set of domains and then expanding as additional cooperation=
 occurs. We could add a discussion along these lines as well if this would =
be helpful.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the input,</div><div><br></=
div><div>Dave</div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: m=
edium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0i=
n; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium =
none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span> Adri=
an Farrel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a=
>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span> "<a href=3D"mai=
lto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adr=
ian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight=
:bold">Date: </span> Sat, 21 Jul 2012 07:16:59 -0400<br><span style=3D"font=
-weight:bold">To: </span> "<a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@=
zte.com.cn</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com=
.cn</a>&gt;, Mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;, "<a href=3D"mailto:rsvp-dir@ietf.org">rsvp-dir@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:rsvp-dir@ietf.org">rsvp-dir@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"f=
ont-weight:bold">Cc: </span> Ross Callon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juni=
per.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Su=
bject: </span> Re: [mpls] Reuqest for suggestion<br></div><div><br></div><b=
lockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #=
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple" style=3D"tab-interval:36.0pt"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I haven't done a detailed review, but s=
omething amusing jumped out at me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; ">In the Introduction you quite rightly point out that if the=
 reporting of latency, jitter and loss are not available from a specific do=
main then it will not be possible to use BRPC to compute an optimal (or ade=
quate) end-to-end path. However, you then go on to give this as a reason to=
 make functional additions to RSVP-TE.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:yes">&nbs=
p; </span>Does it not occur to you that if one domain does not support the =
signaling of latency, jitter and loss (and their collection in the routing =
protocols) then your I-D will not work.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; ">Thus, your argument "if idea A is not supported it wil=
l not work" bounces back on you :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibr=
i, sans-serif; ">Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, san=
s-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D"border:none;border-lef=
t:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div style=3D"border:non=
e;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Taho=
ma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"=
>mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:fu=
.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a><br><b>Sent:</b> 19 July 2012 15:=
59<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:rsvp-dir@ietf.org">rsvp-dir@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=
=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [mpls] Reuqest for suggestion<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
bottom:12.0pt"><br><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans=
-serif; ">Hi All,</span> <br><br><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-famil=
y: Arial, sans-serif; ">I forwarded this mail to MPLS WG and rsvp-directora=
te according to Lou's suggestion in order to get comments from WG. </span><=
br><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Thanks=
 Lou's suggestion. It is very valuable.</span> <br><span style=3D"font-size=
: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Following is the requirement to e=
xtend RSVP-TE to deal with delay/loss traffic engineering application.</spa=
n> <br><br><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; =
">We defined SENDER_TSPEC, ADSPEC and FLOWSPEC sub-object, i.e., option 2 a=
s Lou suggested.</span> <br><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Ar=
ial, sans-serif; ">Following is the latest draft. We didn't upload it to MP=
LS WG website.</span> <br><br><br><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-fami=
ly: Arial, sans-serif; ">Any comments are appreciated.</span> <br><br><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Xihua</span> <=
o:p></o:p></p><table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0=
" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;mso-yfti-tbllo=
ok:1184"><tbody><tr style=3D"mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti=
-lastrow:yes"><td width=3D"36%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:36.0%;padding=
:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Lou Berger &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a>&gt;</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">2012-03-05=
 </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;mso-ascii-font-family=
:Arial;mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial">=CF=C2=CE=E7=
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> =
10:20</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"63%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"=
width:63.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><table class=3D"MsoNormalTable=
" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%;mso-c=
ellspacing:1.5pt;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184"><tbody><tr style=3D"mso-yfti-irow:0=
;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes"><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"=
><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;=
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; font-fa=
mily: Arial, sans-serif; "><a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@=
zte.com.cn</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style=3D"mso-yfti-irow:1=
"><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;mso-hansi-font-family:=
Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><t=
d valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><=
a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>, <a href=3D"m=
ailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:swallow@cisco.com">swallo=
w@cisco.com</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style=3D"mso-yfti-irow:=
2;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes"><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"=
><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;=
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .=
75pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif; ">Re: Reuqest for suggestion</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><=
/tr></tbody></table><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table clas=
s=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"mso-cellspacin=
g:1.5pt;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184"><tbody><tr style=3D"mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti=
-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes"><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75=
pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt =
.75pt .75pt"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br><br><br><tt>Xihua,</tt><b=
r><br><tt>I was really trying to make a technical point not a procedural on=
e. &nbsp;My</tt><br><tt>main point is that latency is part of service/QoS</=
tt><br><tt>description/characterization and that as such belongs in a</tt><=
br><tt>flowspec/tspec/adspec and not as a generic RSVP object. &nbsp;For ex=
ample,</tt><br><tt>the intserv ADSPEC already supports a latency parameter,=
 and RFC2212</tt><br><tt>make claims related to latency.</tt><br><br><tt>On=
e possible approach is to modify IntServ (as represented by RFC210) to</tt>=
<br><tt>provide the new parameters you are looking for. &nbsp;Another alter=
native is</tt><br><tt>to define an alternative flowspec/tspec format.</tt><=
br><br><tt>So, as I see it, there are three options:</tt><br><tt>1) Extend =
RSVP: New RSVP-level object/attribue</tt><br><tt>2) Extend IntServ: New Int=
Serv parameter(s)</tt><br><tt>3) New Traffic Description: new c-type for RS=
VP adspec/flowspec/tspec</tt><br><br><tt>You are currently proposing option=
 1, and I'm suggesting that option 2</tt><br><tt>and 3 should be considered=
 first.</tt><br><br><tt>With respect to working group. &nbsp;I personally t=
hink having this work done</tt><br><tt>in MPLS is just fine, but others suc=
h as TSVWG should know about it. &nbsp;Of</tt><br><tt>course, the chairs of=
 these WGs and ADs may disagree.</tt><br><br><tt>Do you have any objection =
to bringing this discussion to the MPLS WG and</tt><br><tt>rsvp-directorate=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rsvp-dir@ietf.org">rsvp-dir@ietf.org</a>&gt;? &nbsp;=
If not, please just forward this</tt><br><tt>or let me know and I'll do so.=
</tt><br><br><tt>Lou</tt><br><br><tt>On 3/5/2012 3:09 AM, <a href=3D"mailto=
:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a> wrote:</tt><br><tt>&gt; </tt>=
<br><tt>&gt; Hi Chairs,</tt><br><tt>&gt; </tt><br><tt>&gt; In Taibei meetin=
g, Lou suggested</tt><br><tt>&gt; _draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-rsvp-te-ext-0=
0_</tt><br><tt>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html?draft=3Ddraft=
-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-rsvp-te-ext-00">http://tools.ietf.org/html?draft=3Ddr=
aft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-rsvp-te-ext-00</a>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; may be don=
e in Tsvwg related to IntServ.</tt><br><tt>&gt; </tt><br><tt>&gt; Minutes:<=
/tt><br><tt>&gt; /Lou: changes concern IntServ. should be done maybe in tsv=
wg. I support</tt><br><tt>&gt; the objective but 100% in scope interv and o=
ut of scope of rsvp/</tt><br><tt>&gt; /Ross: good question. need to be reso=
lved offline/</tt><br><tt>&gt; /Xihua: was in ccamp, now moved to mpls, but=
 not sure rsvp is good place</tt><br><tt>&gt; indeed/</tt><br><tt>&gt; /Loa=
: decision will involve serveral chairs and ADs/</tt><br><tt>&gt; </tt><br>=
<tt>&gt; Lou gave us a right direction, but it may involce serveral chairs.=
 Would</tt><br><tt>&gt; you like to give us some suggestions?</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; </tt><br><tt>&gt; Xihua Fu</tt><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><=
/blockquote></span></body></html>

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Support.
 
-Quintin
 
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Loa Andersson <loa at pi.nu> wrote:
> Working group,
> 
> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
> as an MPLS working group document.
> 
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org).
> 
> The poll ends July 31st, 2012.
> 
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson at ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa at pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone:             +46 10 717 52 13

>                                                          +46 767 72 92 13

> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls at ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

 


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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>Support.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>-Quintin<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Loa =
Andersson &lt;loa at pi.nu&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Working =
group,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; this is to start a two week poll =
on adopting<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; =
draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; as an MPLS working group =
document.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Please send your comments =
(support/not support) to the mpls =
working<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; group mailing list (mpls at =
ietf.org).<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; The poll ends July 31st, =
2012.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; =
/Loa<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; (mpls wg =
co-chair)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; =
--<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Loa =
Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; email: loa.andersson at =
ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Sr Strategy and Standards =
Manager&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 loa at pi.nu<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Ericsson =
Inc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; phone: <span class=3Dskypepnhcontainer>&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhleftspan>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
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n><span class=3Dskypepnhdropartspan>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
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class=3Dskypepnhcontainer>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span=
 lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
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lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p=
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ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
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mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
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Support.
 
-Quintin
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces at ietf.org] On Behalf
Of
> Loa Andersson
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 1:20 PM
> To: mpls at ietf.org
> Cc: mpls at ietf.org; mpls-ads at tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for
draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-
> label-adv
> 
> Working group,
> 
> this is to start a "two week" poll on adopting
> draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03
> as an MPLS working group document.
> 
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org).
> 
> Due to the IETF meeting week this poll is extended and will end
> Aug 7th, 2012.
> 
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
> --
> 
> 
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson at ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa at pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone:             +46 10 717 52 13

>                                                           +46 767 72 92 13

> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls at ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

 


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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>Support.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>-Quintin<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; From: mpls-bounces at ietf.org [<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces">mailto:mpls-bounces</a> at ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Loa =
Andersson<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 1:20 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; To: mpls at =
ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Cc: mpls at ietf.org; mpls-ads at =
tools.ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for =
draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; =
label-adv<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Working =
group,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; this is to start a &quot;two =
week&quot; poll on adopting<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; =
draft-raza-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-03<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pr=
e><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; as an MPLS working group =
document.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Please send your comments =
(support/not support) to the mpls =
working<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; group mailing list (mpls at =
ietf.org).<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Due to the IETF meeting week =
this poll is extended and will end<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Aug 7th, =
2012.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; =
/Loa<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; (mpls wg =
co-chair)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; --<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Loa =
Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; email: loa.andersson at =
ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Sr Strategy and Standards =
Manager&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 loa at pi.nu<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; Ericsson =
Inc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; phone: <span class=3Dskypepnhcontainer>&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhleftspan>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhdropartflagspan>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</spa=
n><span class=3Dskypepnhdropartspan>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhtextspan>+46 10 717 52 13</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhrightspan>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhcontainer>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span=
 lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; &nbsp;<span class=3Dskypepnhcontainer>&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhleftspan>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhdropartflagspan>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</spa=
n><span class=3Dskypepnhdropartspan>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhtextspan>+46 767 72 92 13</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhrightspan>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3Dskypepnhcontainer>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p=
re><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&gt; mpls mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; mpls at =
ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CD68CA.7510F320--

From eric.gray@ericsson.com  Mon Jul 23 10:11:03 2012
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From: Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Importance: high
X-Priority: 1
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:10:21 -0400
Thread-Topic: ldp-hello-crypto-auth comments - Eric
Thread-Index: AQGhgUm8buKBer1VVEtVXw8pmKtDtQEn+k93Ab8AjmUClKb7fwGPQJ/BAh/CLtaXQH1c8IAFEJPg
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Cc: "draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tools.ietf.org" <draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "'Bhatia, Manav \(Manav\)'" <manav.bhatia@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] FW: ldp-hello-crypto-auth comments - Eric
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Folks,

	I am providing a summary of an off-line discussion on one
of my comments.  I am doing this based on a request from Adrian
as routing Co-AD.

	The particular comment related to use of IPSec as one (of
possibly several) alternatives to the proposal in the draft.  I
made the comment because of a concern that a question along the
lines of what I was asking used to be one that we could expect
from the Security AD later on.

	It turns out that - as with many things - the Security
landscape has changed.  IPSec no longer appears to enjoy the
"favored son" status it once had.  As a result, I received a
very useful and informative reply that should be shared with=20
the MPLS list.

	Specifically, quoting most of a reply from Manav Bhatia:

"There are issues with IPSec because of which there is work going on
 in moving protocols away from it.=20

"OSPFv3 was originally designed to use only IPSec for authentication=20
 (RFC 4552). Recently, OSPF WG published a new standard track doc that
 extends OSPFv3 so that it can authenticate its protocol packets by an
 inband mechanism without relying on IPSec (RFC 6506). I am one of the
 co-authors of that work.

"We've had lot of discussions on IPSecME WG on deprecating Authentication
 Header (AH) and there is quite a good consensus on making sure that no=20
 new mechanism is introduced that uses AH as the primary mechanism for
 authentication unless it has a very very strong reason for only using AH=20
 and not ESP. You can look at

 http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-bhatia-moving-ah-to-historic-00.txt=20

 to get an idea of what I am alluding to.

"ESP too has its own share of problems. Because ESP basically does
 encryption, there is no good way to look at the ESP packet and figure=20
 out if the packet is encrypted or not. This means that when an ESP=20
 packet appears on the wire, routers will have to pass it to the IPSec=20
 engine/module before it can be prioritized and put into the right CPU=20
 queues. Almost all implementations that use IPSec for control plane do=20
 IPSec processing in SW (as you may not require an IPSec blade on core=20
 routers). This breaks the CPU QoS design since packets cant be deep=20
 inspected in HW and put in right queues. Of course, we could also use
 Wrapped ESP (RFC 5840) that I had co-authored to avoid the traffic=20
 invisibility issue that I have described here. However, WESP's still a=20
 relatively new protocol that hasn't been extensively deployed. And then=20
 there are other issues with IPSec which hold good for WESP as well.

"KARP WG has been chartered to provide a new key management protocol=20
 that works for all routing and signaling protocols. The entire KARP=20
 work effort has been divided into two phases. The first phase would be=20
 to modify the routing/signaling protocols to support modern cryptography=20
 algorithms and key agility. The second phase would be to design and move=20
 to an automated key management mechanism. Our ldp-hello draft is part of=20
 the Phase 1 of KARP where we try to strengthen the LDP base security by=20
 protecting LDP hello's against some very basic attacks. I am also the=20
 co-author of KARP Design guide (RFC 6518) and I suggest that you go=20
 through that to understand where this work fits into the entire scheme=20
 of things."

--
Eric

From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com  Mon Jul 23 12:35:47 2012
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 15:35:43 -0400
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection
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 yes/support

	Regards,
		Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa=
 Andersson
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:22 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team; draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection@t=
ools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protection

Working group,

this is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-ezy-mpls-tp-1ton-protect=
ion-00
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group m=
ailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

The poll ends August 3r, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)
--=20


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From huaimo.chen@huawei.com  Mon Jul 23 13:10:59 2012
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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@huawei.com>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll for WG adoption for draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
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Support it.

Huaimo
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Loa Andersson <loa at pi.nu> wrote:
> Working group,
>=20
> this is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth-05
> as an MPLS working group document.
>=20
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
> group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org).
>=20
> The poll ends July 31st, 2012.
>=20
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson at ericsson.co=
m
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa at pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone:             +46 10 717 52 13

>                                                          +46 767 72 92 13

From erosen@cisco.com  Mon Jul 23 14:04:14 2012
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To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 23 Jul 2012 08:18:50 +0530. <C584046466ED224CA92C1BC3313B963E09F20ADE2E@INBANSXCHMBSA3.in.alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:04:08 -0400
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From: Eric Rosen <erosen@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Pranjal> This draft does not change or violate procedures defined in RFC
Pranjal> 5036. It proposes an OPTIONAL method of reduction of "targeted'
Pranjal> hellos (only - as the name of the draft suggests) and the proposed
Pranjal> method is backward compatible with procedures defined in RFC
Pranjal> 5036. The method uses the hello timeout negotiation procedures as
Pranjal> per RFC 5036 without any changes in negotiation procedures.

If the draft does not change any of the procedures specified in RFC 5036,
and does not define any new procedures or messages either, then why is the
draft marked as "standards track"?  At best it would be "Informational".
But are you saying that all the draft really does is to suggest that a
particular parameter be set to a particular value?  That doesn't seem like
very much content.

Pranjal> The reduction of hellos provides probabilistically better
Pranjal> resiliency on maintenance of hello adjacency during sporadic DoS
Pranjal> attacks. Sporadic DoS attacks on UDP port 646 can result in loss of
Pranjal> "good" hello packets for certain period of time and thus leading to
Pranjal> loss of existing adjacencies.

If an attacker can send you UDP packets on port 646, why doesn't he make
them look like Hello packets specifying a short hold time?  That's a much
more effective attack than a "sporadic DoS attack".  In fact, if real Hellos
are not being sent at all, it just becomes easier to mount an attack with a
spoofed Hello.  An attacker could send a spoofed Hello with a hold time of 3
days, and the session would stay up for a few days and then fail
mysteriously, for no apparent reason.  An attack whose effects are not felt
until days later can be quite hard to deal with.  When the Hellos are sent
periodically, on the other hand, there is a self-correction mechanism that
prevents this.

If you want to reduce the targeted Hello load, it might be better to invent
a way (i.e., a protocol change) of turning them off entirely after the
session comes up, so that arriving Hellos are just discarded.  (

BTW, the draft asserts that the periodic Hellos have no value that is not
better served by either BFD or the LDP session keepalives.  I don't know
whether that's true, but it would be nice to see an argument with a little
more substance.






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From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Please find my answers further inline.

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Rosen [mailto:erosen@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:04 PM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
Cc: Markus Jork; Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; VI=
GOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Pranjal> This draft does not change or violate procedures defined in RFC
Pranjal> 5036. It proposes an OPTIONAL method of reduction of "targeted'
Pranjal> hellos (only - as the name of the draft suggests) and the proposed
Pranjal> method is backward compatible with procedures defined in RFC
Pranjal> 5036. The method uses the hello timeout negotiation procedures as
Pranjal> per RFC 5036 without any changes in negotiation procedures.

If the draft does not change any of the procedures specified in RFC 5036,
and does not define any new procedures or messages either, then why is the
draft marked as "standards track"?  At best it would be "Informational".
But are you saying that all the draft really does is to suggest that a
particular parameter be set to a particular value?  That doesn't seem like
very much content.

[Pranjal] The version 00 was informational. It was made to standards track =
as per feedback received from WG IETF-SFO. Although the draft re-uses the=20
Hello negotiation method as in RFC 5036, it does define procedures for=20
reduction (section 4). I am OK if majority votes for Informatonal.
[/Pranjal]

Pranjal> The reduction of hellos provides probabilistically better
Pranjal> resiliency on maintenance of hello adjacency during sporadic DoS
Pranjal> attacks. Sporadic DoS attacks on UDP port 646 can result in loss o=
f
Pranjal> "good" hello packets for certain period of time and thus leading t=
o
Pranjal> loss of existing adjacencies.

If an attacker can send you UDP packets on port 646, why doesn't he make
them look like Hello packets specifying a short hold time?  That's a much
more effective attack than a "sporadic DoS attack".  In fact, if real Hello=
s
are not being sent at all, it just becomes easier to mount an attack with a
spoofed Hello. =20

[Pranjal] When I said UDP packets in port 646 it was not meant to be non-He=
llo packets - it was meant to be any packet in port 646 that includes LDP H=
ello Packet (parser won't say bad_msg) or any garnage UDP payload. Sporadic=
 floods of good LDP Hellos are tantamount to DoS attack. If such a flood co=
mes from an "existing" adjacency then one solution could be rate limiting o=
n existing adjacencies (there are several established techniques). If an im=
plementation doesn't have such techniques (e.g h/w assisted) then it is pos=
sible that such attacks from one peer may bring down other adjacencies, if =
the hold time of other adjacencies are relatively small. The draft does not=
 claim as solution for DoS prevention but for probabilistically better resi=
lience on sporadic attacks. [/Pranjal]


An attacker could send a spoofed Hello with a hold time of 3
days, and the session would stay up for a few days and then fail
mysteriously, for no apparent reason.  An attack whose effects are not felt
until days later can be quite hard to deal with.  When the Hellos are sent
periodically, on the other hand, there is a self-correction mechanism that
prevents this.

[Pranjal] Could you elaborate in more details what self-correction means in=
 this context? If we read the section 4, it mentions that Hello Reduction s=
tarts only after a LDP session is ESTABLISHED. There are additional well kn=
own security methods to secure LDP session (e.g TCP MD5). Do you mean to sa=
y that a peer to which we may be running a trusted LDP session can be=20
considered as spoof? Well, nobody can prevent a trusted peer not to do spoo=
fing with hellos (hide-and-seek), if the peer administration decided to do =
so but the draft doesn't claim solution for such spoofing. If there is=20
a trusted peer and hello reduction procedures set the holdtime as 3 days
And the session is lost then hello reduction terminates immediately. This=20
Is mentioned clearly in point 4 in section 4. Then I don't see your point=20
how a spoofed hello adjacency stays up for 3 days.=20



If you want to reduce the targeted Hello load, it might be better to invent
a way (i.e., a protocol change) of turning them off entirely after the
session comes up, so that arriving Hellos are just discarded.  (

[Pranjal] We may not like to do that due to backward compatibility with RFC=
 5036, unless we say that T-LDP Hellos are deprecated. However, I think the=
re are vendor implementations (at least one vendor I am aware of) that does=
 LDP session protection with T-LDP hellos while link adjacencies to same pe=
er may get lost for a short window. Thus it may not be a sound approach to =
get rid of T-LDP Hellos. [/Pranjal].

BTW, the draft asserts that the periodic Hellos have no value that is not
better served by either BFD or the LDP session keepalives.  I don't know
whether that's true, but it would be nice to see an argument with a little
more substance.

[Pranjal] It depends on case by case. If LDP session transport address is=20
different from IP addresses used for T-LDP hellos then Session Keepalives a=
re not substitute. But if we want to use protocols like BFD for fast tracki=
ng reachability of T-LDP IPs (there are other protocols as well) then Hello=
s are redundant. If any Hello param are changed during the life time=20
of a adjacency then hellos can be exchanged immediately to reflect the chan=
ge keeping reduced hold time intact and draft does not prevent it from doin=
g so (corrective action). I would like to hear opposing side of the argumen=
t that claims the period fast T-LDP hellos are mandatory for proper functio=
ning of LDP as a protocol and need to quantify the "fastness".  [/Pranjal]








From pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com  Mon Jul 23 19:38:11 2012
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From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, Giles Heron <giheron@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:07:54 +0530
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Hi Lizhong,
                  Thanks for review. Please refer my answers inline.

Cheers,
Pranjal
________________________________
From: Lizhong Jin [mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn]
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:13 AM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); mpls@ietf.org; Thomas Nadeau; Giles Heron
Cc: loa@pi.nu; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); Markus Jork; Ross Callon; swallo=
w@cisco.com; Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de
Subject: Re: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03


Hi all,
I've reviewed this draft, and have two comments that need to be clarifed:
1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute it with liveness tracking of =
session? Hello address maybe different with trasport address.

[Pranjal]  It depends on case by case. For example when transport address o=
f the LDP session is different from the IP addresses used to exchange t-ldp=
 hellos, then probably it is not RECOMMENDED to use hello reduction procedu=
res, since sessions keepallives are not really substitute of "reachability"=
 or "liveliness" of the adjacency. Alternately it is possible to track the =
reachability of t-ldp sources by means of other fast protocols (e.g BFD and=
 others etc).
In such a case, the t-ldp hellos could be redundant after initial discovery=
 done and session set-up is complete. When peers are asymmetric w.r.t hello=
 reduction support (one peer supports while the other does not), then the s=
ituation falls back to what we have with RFC 5036.


2. Target hellos are not only used for liveness track, but also parameter n=
egotiation and updating. When negotiated to infinite, what time interval wo=
uld be used to send the updated hello (e.g, hello with new Optional Paramet=
ers in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello i=
s not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?

[Pranjal] An updated hello can be sent at any time (whenever any param is c=
hanged to reflect the change to peer) without any changes in "current"
hold time (e.g infinite) that was advertised in the last hello message. Mea=
ns it is not necessary to fallback to configured hold time and restart the =
reduction process (in fact not desirable). For example, it could be changes=
 in one or more hello adjacency capabilities as described in the aforementi=
oned draft or could be any of the existing standard params such as configSe=
qNum etc. Since hellos are not reliable, after any parameter change an impl=
ementation
may send a set of hellos (let's say 5) at configured intervals (or faster) =
to reflect the change. But those hellos would continue to advertise infinit=
e hold time
and would fall back to reduced rate after those 5 packets are sent.

However, changes like IPV4 or IPV6 transport address etc may restart the se=
ssion that can result in starting hello reduction from scratch.

I agree that in its current state draft doesn't describe the solution and i=
ts flexibilities in adequate detail. We would definitely address those.


Summary of review:
a. whether the document is coherent?
Good description on the motivation, need more detail in technical descripti=
on (e.g, refer to my second comment).

b. is it useful?
Yes.

d. is technically sound ?
Need some clarification.

e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption ?
After clarification, it should be ready for WG adoption.

Regards
Lizhong


Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> wrote 2012/07/18 05:49:55:

> Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;
>
> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
>
> Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know th=
at
> this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.
>
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
> (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
> the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the
> document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have t=
o
> be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
>
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretar=
y,
> and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
> privately to only the WG chairs.
>
> Are you able to review this draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the I=
ETF
> meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice a=
nd
> that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us
> know if you need slightly more time.
>
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>
> PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau's email address listed in the draft is
> out of date. This email is being CC'd to his updated address.
>

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Lizhong,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Thanks for review. Please refer my answers inline.<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pranjal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Lizhong =
Jin
[mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</st1:PersonName>=
] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 23, 2012 =
2:13
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"=
on">Dutta,
 Pranjal K</st1:PersonName> (Pranjal); <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">mpls@iet=
f.org</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"=
on">loa@pi.nu</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">VIGOUREUX, MARTIN</st1:PersonName> (MARTIN); Ma=
rkus
Jork; Ross Callon; <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">swallow@cisco.com</st1:Perso=
nName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: MPLS-RT review =
of
draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Hi all,</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>I've
reviewed this draft, and have two comments that need to be clarifed:</span>=
</font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>1.
Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive tr=
acks
the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track the liven=
ess
of hello adjacency, or substitute it with liveness tracking of session? Hel=
lo
address maybe different with trasport address.</span></font> <font color=3D=
navy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[Pranjal] &nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;
color:navy'>It depends on case by case. For example when transport address =
of
the LDP session is different from the IP addresses used to exchange t-ldp
hellos, then probably it is not RECOMMENDED to use hello reduction procedur=
es,
since sessions keepallives are not really substitute of
&quot;reachability&quot; or &#8220;liveliness&#8221; of the adjacency. Alte=
rnately
it is possible to track the reachability of t-ldp sources by means of other
fast protocols (e.g BFD and others etc). <br>
In such a case, the t-ldp hellos could be redundant after initial discovery
done and session set-up is complete. When peers are asymmetric w.r.t hello
reduction support (one peer supports while the other does not), then the
situation falls back to what we have with RFC 5036.<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>2. Target hellos are not only used for liveness tra=
ck,
but also parameter negotiation and updating. When negotiated to infinite, w=
hat
time interval would be used to send the updated hello (e.g, hello with new
Optional Parameters in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) mess=
age?
UDP hello is not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hello hold t=
ime
first?</span></font> <font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-top:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnav=
y
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=
[Pranjal]
An updated hello can be sent at any time (whenever any param is changed to
reflect the change to peer) without any changes in &#8220;current&#8221; <b=
r>
hold time (e.g infinite) that was advertised in the last hello message. Mea=
ns
it is not necessary to fallback to configured hold time and restart the red=
uction
process (in fact not desirable). For example, it could be changes in one or
more hello adjacency capabilities as described in the aforementioned draft =
or could
be any of the existing standard params such as configSeqNum etc. Since hell=
os
are not reliable, after any parameter change an implementation <br>
may send a set of hellos (let&#8217;s say 5) at configured intervals (or fa=
ster)
to reflect the change. But those hellos would continue to advertise infinit=
e
hold time<br>
and would fall back to reduced rate after those 5 packets are sent. <o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However, changes like IPV4 or IPV6
transport address etc may restart the session that can result in starting h=
ello
reduction from scratch. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I agree that in its current state draf=
t
doesn&#8217;t describe the solution and its flexibilities in adequate detai=
l.
We would definitely address those.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Summary of review:</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>a.
whether the document is coherent?</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Good
description on the motivation, need more detail in technical description (e=
.g,
refer to my second comment).</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>b.
is it useful? </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Yes.</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>d.
is technically sound ?</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Need
some clarification.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>e.
is ready to be considered for WG adoption ?</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>After
clarification, it should be ready for WG adoption.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Regards</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Lizhong</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Ross
Callon &lt;rcallon@juniper.net&gt; wrote 2012/07/18 05:49:55:<br>
<br>
&gt; Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for</span></font> <=
br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
Note to authors: You have been CC&#8217;d on this email so that you can kno=
w
that </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document. <=
/span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful</s=
pan></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
(ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is</s=
pan></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
the document technically sound? &nbsp;We are interested in knowing whether =
the </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn&#8217;t ha=
ve
to</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
be perfect at this point, but should be a good start). </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,=
</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
and CC&#8217;d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sen=
t </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
privately to only the WG chairs. </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
Are you able to review this draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IET=
F </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
meeting in <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Vancouver</st1:plac=
e></st1:City>)?
We understand that this is somewhat short notice and &nbsp;</span></font> <=
br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us </=
span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
know if you need slightly more time. </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
Thanks, Ross</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
(as MPLS WG chair)</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau&#8217;s email address listed in the draft is<=
br>
&gt; out of date. This email is being CC&#8217;d to his updated address. </=
span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"tab-interval:2=
1.0pt">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">I have reviewed the draft and her=
e
 are my comments:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-char-indent-count:0;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:=
Calibri;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<font size=3D"1" f=
ace=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f4=
97d" face=3D"Calibri"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bi=
di-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">First, I
 am not fully convinced by the use cases<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-char-indent-count:0;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:=
Calibri;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a)<font size=3D"1" f=
ace=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f4=
97d" face=3D"Calibri"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bi=
di-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">For the
 PTP case, since the requirements is to have co-routed bidirectional path, =
and LDP-based solution may not be the best choose, it cannot guarantee that=
 the upstream and downstream LSP are fully co-routed, because it=A1=AFs pat=
h follow IP routing, two directions may
 choose different interfaces(links) or tunnels as the <span class=3D"SpellE=
">nexthop</span>. RSVP-TE-based solution maybe a better choice. In addition=
, if the purpose is to save the bandwidth (compare to use
<span class=3D"SpellE">unicast</span> bidirectional LSP), seems the benefit=
 is limited.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-char-indent-count:0;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:=
Calibri;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b)<font size=3D"1" f=
ace=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f4=
97d" face=3D"Calibri"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bi=
di-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">For VPLS
 and E-VPN scenarios, seems MP2MP LSP <span style=3D"mso-spacerun:yes">&nbs=
p;</span>is a better choice.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-char-indent-count:0;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:=
Calibri;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<font size=3D"1" f=
ace=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f4=
97d" face=3D"Calibri"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bi=
di-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">The draft
 introduces a new terminology: HSMP LSP, if my understanding is correct, th=
e HSMP LSP is actually a co-routed bidirectional P2MP LSP,
<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>and <span style=3D"mso-spacer=
un:yes">&nbsp;</span>IMHO, the name of co-routed bidirectional P2MP LSP is =
more common and easy to understand.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-char-indent-count:0;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:=
Calibri;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3.<font size=3D"1" f=
ace=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f4=
97d" face=3D"Calibri"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bi=
di-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">The solutio=
n
 and extensions defined in the draft works, one comments on Section 4.2 <o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:0cm;m=
so-char-indent-count:0">
<font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B0Both elements will be used as FEC Elements in the =
FEC
 TLV.=A1=B1 More accurate should be =A1=B0If a FEC TLV contains an HSMP FEC=
 Element, the HSMP FEC Element MUST be the only FEC Element in the FEC TLV.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-char-indent-count:0;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:=
Calibri;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">4.<font size=3D"1" f=
ace=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f4=
97d" face=3D"Calibri"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bi=
di-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">In summary,
 the solution and extensions are OK, but the use cases need more work and c=
larification.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">Mach<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></=
p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;font-weight:bold">=B7=A2=BC=
=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></font></b><font size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Ross Callon
 [mailto:rcallon@juniper.net] <br>
</span></font><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;font-weight:bold">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=
=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></font></b><font size=3D"2" face=
=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2012</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=
=3D"EN-US">7</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">13</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"=
EN-US">
 0:50<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"=
EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> thomas.morin@orange.com; Ra=
veendra Torvi; Mach Chen<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> Loa Andersson; George Swallow (sw=
allow); Martin Vigoureux; Ross Callon; lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn; Fred Jounay;=
 ice@cisco.com; Nic Leymann<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> MPLS-RT review of draft-jin-jouna=
y-mpls-mldp-hsmp<o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">Thomas, Ravi, Mach;<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">You have been selected as an MPLS Review team =
reviewers for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">Note to authors: You have been CC=A1=AFd on th=
is email so that you can know that
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">this review is going on. However, please do no=
t review your own document.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">Reviews should comment on whether the document=
 is coherent, is it useful<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">(ie, is it likely to be actually useful in ope=
rational networks), and is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">the document technically sound?&nbsp; We are i=
nterested in knowing whether the
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">document is ready to be considered for WG adop=
tion (ie, it doesn=A1=AFt have to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">be perfect at this point, but should be a good=
 start).
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">Reviews should be sent to the document authors=
, WG co-chairs and secretary,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">and CC=A1=AFd to the MPLS WG email list. If ne=
cessary, comments may be sent
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">privately to only the WG chairs.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">Are you able to review this draft by July 27, =
2012 (ie, prior to the IETF
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">meeting in Vancouver)?
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">Thanks, Ross<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">(as MPLS WG c=
hair)</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;</span>=
</font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 15:46:59 +0300
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From: Yaacov Weingarten <wyaacov@gmail.com>
To: "Feng, Ying (NSN - CN/Shanghai)" <ying.feng@nsn.com>
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Cc: "Zhao, Peng \(NSN - CN/Shanghai\)" <peng.zhao@nsn.com>, "Doolan, Paul \(NSN - US/Irving\)" <paul.doolan@nsn.com>, "Ma, Kai 1. \(NSN - CN/Shanghai\)" <kai.1.ma@nsn.com>, MPLS@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] current state transition definiton cause returning Normal directly without WTR.
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Hi,

I have a slight problem understanding your scenario.

Based on my reading of the state machine (as described in the Appendix, but
I am sure that the document description is the same) the folloeing should
be the scenario:

Both A & Z are in PF:W:L
If A receives the local SFc it will transition into WTR state and begin
transmitting a WTR message.
[branch point a] When A receives the SF-W message from Z it stops the WTR
timer and transitions to PF:W:R and transmits a NR message.
Meanwhile, Z received the local SFc and transitions into WTR state and
begins transmitting the WTR message.
As long as the WTR timer is running at Z, Z will ignore the NR message from
A
When A receives the WTR message from Z it transitions into WTR state
continuing to transmit the NR message.

Finally, when the WTR timer expires, Z transits into Normal state and
begins to transmit the NR message
When A receives the NR message it transits into Normal state and continues
to transmit the NR message.

If at [branch point a] A does not receive a SF-W message, because Z has
already transitioned into WTR state and instead A receives a remote WTR
message while in WTR state it will be ignored
Eventually, A's WTR timer will expire and begin transmitting the NR message
until it receives a NR from Z
The same will happen at Z and when both receive the NR message from the
other endpoint they transition into Normal state.


In any case the WTR state is entered in both scenarios.  Assuming of course
that the network is configured for revertive action.  If in non-revertive
configuration then a similar scenario will be played through the DNR state.

Can you explain where you are having difficulty?

Hope this helps,
yaacov weingarten

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Feng, Ying (NSN - CN/Shanghai) <
ying.feng@nsn.com> wrote:

> **
>
> Dear Yaacov Weingarten,
>
> We found an issue below during the implementation:
>
> According to the state transition definition in rfc6378,
>
> when both local working path signal fail and remote working path signal
> fail, APS state will be local protection failure state.
>
> then if local working path signal fail clear comes,
>
> it will enter remote protection failure state and send NR request.
>
> when in remote protection failure state, it will return to Normal when NR
> request is received.
>
> Thus if both ends have working path signal fail clear at same/very-close
> time, then both ends will return Normal directly. That is no WTR state
>
> In my opinion, this transition without WTR is not expected.
>
> Please have a double check.
>
> Look forward to your reply, thank you!
>
> Best Regards
> Feng Yingzhen
>
> Nokia Siemens Networks Transport Systems (Shanghai) Ltd.
>
> =C5=B5=BB=F9=D1=C7=CE=F7=C3=C5=D7=D3=CD=A8=D0=C5=BC=BC=CA=F5=A3=A8=B1=B1=
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>
> 9/F, Building 89, 1122 North Qin Zhou Road, Shanghai 200233, China
>
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> Email: ***ying.feng@nsn.com* <ying.feng@nsn.com>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I have a slight problem understandi=
ng your scenario. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Based on my reading of th=
e state machine (as described in the Appendix, but I am sure that the docum=
ent description is the same) the folloeing should be the scenario:</div>
<div><br></div><div>Both A &amp; Z are in PF:W:L</div><div>If A receives th=
e local SFc it will transition into WTR state and begin transmitting a WTR =
message.</div><div>[branch point a] When A receives the SF-W message from Z=
 it stops the WTR timer and transitions to PF:W:R and transmits a NR messag=
e.</div>
<div>Meanwhile, Z received the local SFc and transitions into WTR state and=
 begins transmitting the WTR message.</div><div>As long as the WTR timer is=
 running at Z, Z will ignore the NR message from A</div><div>When A receive=
s the WTR message from Z it transitions into WTR state continuing to transm=
it the NR message.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Finally, when the WTR timer expires, Z transits into No=
rmal state and begins to transmit the NR message</div><div>When A receives =
the NR message it transits into Normal state and continues to transmit the =
NR message.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If at [branch point a] A does not receive a SF-W messag=
e, because Z has already transitioned into WTR state and instead A receives=
 a remote WTR message while in WTR state it will be ignored&nbsp;</div><div=
>
Eventually, A&#39;s WTR timer will expire and begin transmitting the NR mes=
sage until it receives a NR from Z</div><div>The same will happen at Z and =
when both receive the NR message from the other endpoint they transition in=
to Normal state.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>In any case the WTR state is entered in =
both scenarios. &nbsp;Assuming of course that the network is configured for=
 revertive action. &nbsp;If in non-revertive configuration then a similar s=
cenario will be played through the DNR state.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Can you explain where you are having difficulty?</div><=
div><br></div><div>Hope this helps,</div><div>yaacov weingarten<br><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Feng, Ying (NSN - C=
N/Shanghai) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ying.feng@nsn.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">ying.feng@nsn.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>






<div>


<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">Dear</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri"> Yaacov Wei=
ngarten, </font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">We found an issue below during the implementation:</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">According to the state transition definition in rfc6378, </font></span></=
p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">when both local working path signal fail and remote working path signal f=
ail, APS state will be local protection failure state.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">then if local work</font><font face=3D"Calibri">ing path signal fail clea=
r comes, </font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">it will enter remote protection failure state and send NR request.</font>=
</span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">when in remote protection failure state, it will return to Normal when NR=
 request is received.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">Thus if both ends have working path signal fail clear at s</font><font fa=
ce=3D"Calibri">ame/very-close time, then both ends will return Normal direc=
tly. That is no WTR state</font></span></p>


<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">In my opinion, this transition without WTR is not expected.</font></span>=
</p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">Please have a double check.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">Look forward to your reply, thank you!</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><spa=
n lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">Be=
st Regards</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></=
span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5"><br>

</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span=
 lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">Fen=
g Yingzhen</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></=
span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5"> </font></span></p>


<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"=
en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Nokia Siemens Net=
works Transport Systems (Shanghai) Ltd.</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><=
/span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri"> </font></span></p>


<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"=
en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C5=B5=BB=F9=
=D1=C7=CE=F7=C3=C5=D7=D3=CD=A8=D0=C5=BC=BC=CA=F5=A3=A8=B1=B1=BE=A9=A3=A9=D3=
=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE=C9=CF=BA=A3=B7=D6=B9=AB=CB=BE</font></span><span lang=
=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><=
/p>


<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
">9/F, Building 89, 1122 North Qin Zhou Road, Shanghai 200233, China</font>=
</span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"=
en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D6=D0=B9=FA=
=C9=CF=BA=A3=C7=D5=D6=DD=B1=B1=C2=B7</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></sp=
an><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">=
1122</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><=
span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">=BA=C5</font></span><span l=
ang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font=
 face=3D"Calibri">89</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D=
"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">=BA=C5=C2=
=A5</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><s=
pan lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">7</font></span><span lang=3D"en-u=
s"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"=
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C2=A5</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D=
"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri"> 200233</font></=
span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri=
"> </font></span></p>


<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"=
en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Office:&nbsp;+86-=
21-6085</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></spa=
n><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font color=3D"#FF0000" =
face=3D"Arial">5761</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"=
en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri"><br>

</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span=
 lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Email:</font></span><span lang=3D"en=
-us"> </span><a href=3D"mailto:ying.feng@nsn.com" target=3D"_blank"><span l=
ang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><u></u></span><u><span lang=3D"en=
-us"><font color=3D"#0000FF" face=3D"Calibri">ying.feng</font><font color=
=3D"#0000FF" face=3D"Calibri">@nsn.com</font></span></u><span lang=3D"en-us=
"></span></a><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D=
"Calibri"> </font></span></p>


<p dir=3D"LTR" align=3D"JUSTIFY"><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></p>

</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--20cf3071c8d225910b04c592c2f0--

From skraza@cisco.com  Tue Jul 24 08:52:21 2012
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From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>
To: Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "Thomas Nadeau" <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "Giles Heron (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 15:52:15 +0000
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Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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--_000_CC3434F11018Askrazaciscocom_
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Dear authors,

I've couple of comments:

1) I also have a concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:

>> Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, >> or substitute it with liveness tracking =
of session?

The reduction of T-LDP hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies rel=
ated to forwarding interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel ]. LDP requires an =
adjacency to be **live** on an interface before MPLS [labeled] forwarding c=
an be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we are using LDP-enabled =
TE tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically we install unlabeled (LDP=
) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-adj over TE tunnel goes do=
wn. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to track the liveness of the =
t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP LSP over TE tunnel in the=
 forwarding even when there are issues with this t-adj.

2) Re: "DoS attacks" as motivation for the tldp-reduc:
Your document states that:

"Unlike TCP sessions it is not always possible to

   provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos."


Given new procedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e. draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hel=
lo-crypto-auth),
the above does not seem valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument t=
o support tldp-reduc, IMO.

Rgds,

-- Kamran

From: Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12:36 +0800
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:p=
ranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>, <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, T=
homas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, Giles Heron=
 <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3


Hi all,
I've reviewed this draft, and have two comments that need to be clarifed:
1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute it with liveness tracking of =
session? Hello address maybe different with trasport address.
2. Target hellos are not only used for liveness track, but also parameter n=
egotiation and updating. When negotiated to infinite, what time interval wo=
uld be used to send the updated hello (e.g, hello with new Optional Paramet=
ers in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello i=
s not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?

Summary of review:
a. whether the document is coherent?
Good description on the motivation, need more detail in technical descripti=
on (e.g, refer to my second comment).

b. is it useful?
Yes.

d. is technically sound ?
Need some clarification.

e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption ?
After clarification, it should be ready for WG adoption.

Regards
Lizhong


Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>> wrote 2012/07=
/18 05:49:55:

> Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;
>
> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
>
> Note to authors: You have been CC=92d on this email so that you can know =
that
> this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.
>
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
> (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
> the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the
> document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=92t have=
 to
> be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
>
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretar=
y,
> and CC=92d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
> privately to only the WG chairs.
>
> Are you able to review this draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the I=
ETF
> meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice a=
nd
> that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us
> know if you need slightly more time.
>
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>
> PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau=92s email address listed in the draft is
> out of date. This email is being CC=92d to his updated address.
>   _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@=
ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--_000_CC3434F11018Askrazaciscocom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; ">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
Dear authors,</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
I've couple of comments:</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; ">1) I also have a concern along the s=
ame lines as stated by Lizhong:</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<br>
</div>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 14px; " color=3D"#1e39f6">&gt;&gt; Target Hello tracks the =
liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive tracks the liveness of ses=
sion. Do you mean it is not necessary to track
 the liveness of hello adjacency, &gt;&gt; or substitute it with liveness t=
racking of session?&nbsp;</font>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><fon=
t face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; ">The reduction =
of T-LDP hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies related to forwar=
ding interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel
 ]. LDP requires an adjacency to be **<span style=3D"font-weight: bold">liv=
e**</span>&nbsp;on an interface before MPLS [labeled] forwarding can be set=
up on the given forwarding interface. If we are using LDP-enabled TE tunnel=
 as forwarding interface, then typically
 we install unlabeled (LDP) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-=
adj over TE tunnel goes down. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to =
track the liveness of the t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP=
 LSP over TE tunnel in the forwarding
 even when there are issues with this t-adj.</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><fon=
t face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; "><br>
</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><fon=
t face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; ">2) Re: &quot;D=
oS attacks&quot; as motivation for the tldp-reduc:</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=
=3D"Courier">Your document states that:</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=
=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#1e39f6"><font class=3D"Appl=
e-style-span" face=3D"Courier">&quot;</font><span class=3D"Apple-style-span=
" style=3D"font-family: monospace; font-size: 16px; white-space: pre; ">Unl=
ike TCP sessions it is not always possible to</span></font></div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 16px; font-family: Tim=
es; ">
<pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 1em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bot=
tom: 0px; page-break-before: always; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" col=
or=3D"#1e39f6">   provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos.&quot;</=
font></pre>
<pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 1em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bot=
tom: 0px; page-break-before: always; "><br></pre>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=
=3D"Courier">Given new procedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e.&nbsp;</font=
><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size=
: medium; ">draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth),</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=
=3D"Courier">the above does not seem valid anymore, and hence is not a stro=
ng argument to support tldp-reduc, IMO.</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=
=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><fon=
t face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; ">Rgds,</span></=
font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><fon=
t face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; "><br>
</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=
=3D"Courier">-- Kamran</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><fon=
t class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><spa=
n id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibr=
i, sans-serif; ">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Lizhong Jin &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12:36 &#4=
3;0800<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal=
)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pranjal.dut=
ta@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;, Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tn=
adeau@juniper.net</a>&gt;,
 Giles Heron &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giheron@cisco.com">giheron@cisco.com</a>=
&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Ross Callon &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review =
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Hi all,</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">I've reviewed this draft, and have two=
 comments that need to be clarifed:</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of=
 hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive tracks the liveness of session. Do yo=
u mean it is not necessary to track the liveness of hello adjacency, or sub=
stitute it with liveness tracking of
 session? Hello address maybe different with trasport address.</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">2. Target hellos are not only used for=
 liveness track, but also parameter negotiation and updating. When negotiat=
ed to infinite, what time interval would be used to send the updated hello =
(e.g, hello with new Optional Parameters
 in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello is n=
ot reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?</fo=
nt><br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Summary of review:</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">a. whether the document is coherent?</=
font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Good description on the motivation, ne=
ed more detail in technical description (e.g, refer to my second comment).<=
/font><br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">b. is it useful? </font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Yes.</font><br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">d. is technically sound ?</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Need some clarification.</font><br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">e. is ready to be considered for WG ad=
option ?</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">After clarification, it should be read=
y for WG adoption.</font><br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Regards</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Lizhong</font><br>
<br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Ross Callon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rcal=
lon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote 2012/07/18 05:49:55:<br>
<br>
&gt; Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; &nbsp;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; You have been selected as an MPLS=
 Review team reviewers for</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-redu=
ce-03</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; &nbsp;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; Note to authors: You have been CC=
=92d on this email so that you can know that
</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; this review is going on. However,=
 please do not review your own document.
</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; &nbsp;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; Reviews should comment on whether=
 the document is coherent, is it useful</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; (ie, is it likely to be actually =
useful in operational networks), and is</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; the document technically sound? &=
nbsp;We are interested in knowing whether the
</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; document is ready to be considere=
d for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=92t have to</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; be perfect at this point, but sho=
uld be a good start).
</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; &nbsp;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; Reviews should be sent to the doc=
ument authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; and CC=92d to the MPLS WG email l=
ist. If necessary, comments may be sent
</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; privately to only the WG chairs. =
</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; &nbsp;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; Are you able to review this draft=
 by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IETF
</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; meeting in Vancouver)? We underst=
and that this is somewhat short notice and &nbsp;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; that you might have something els=
e to do the week of the IETF, so let us
</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; know if you need slightly more ti=
me. </font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; &nbsp;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; Thanks, Ross</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; (as MPLS WG chair)</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; &nbsp;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau=92s=
 email address listed in the draft is<br>
&gt; out of date. This email is being CC=92d to his updated address. </font=
><br>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; &nbsp;</font> ___________________=
____________________________ mpls mailing list
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a> </span></div>
</body>
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From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "Giles Heron (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:40:31 +0530
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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References: <OF9B12F519.C114F082-ON48257A44.002D9F55-48257A44.0032976A@zte.com.cn> <CC3434F1.1018A%skraza@cisco.com>
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Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Pls. refer my answers inline.

________________________________
From: Kamran Raza (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:52 AM
To: Lizhong Jin; Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); mpls@ietf.org; Thomas Nadeau; =
Giles Heron (giheron)
Cc: Ross Callon
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Dear authors,

I've couple of comments:

1) I also have a concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:

>> Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, >> or substitute it with liveness tracking =
of session?

The reduction of T-LDP hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies rel=
ated to forwarding interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel ]. LDP requires an =
adjacency to be **live** on an interface before MPLS [labeled] forwarding c=
an be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we are using LDP-enabled =
TE tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically we install unlabeled (LDP=
) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-adj over TE tunnel goes do=
wn. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to track the liveness of the =
t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP LSP over TE tunnel in the=
 forwarding even when there are issues with this t-adj.

[Pranjal] Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP. I mentio=
ned that the hello reduction procedures can be deployed case by case and
Is not mandatory. Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST =
for LdpoRsvp deployments? There are several cases in access,. Aggregation
Networks where LdpoRsvp is not deployed.

2) Re: "DoS attacks" as motivation for the tldp-reduc:
Your document states that:

"Unlike TCP sessions it is not always possible to

   provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos."

Given new procedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e. draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hel=
lo-crypto-auth),
the above does not seem valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument t=
o support tldp-reduc, IMO.

[Pranjal] Not sure what is the point you are raising here. What about DoS a=
ttacks in networks from untrusted peers? How would you provide resilience
to existing trusted peer adjacencies (that is using ldp-crypto-auth) from s=
poofed attacks (without special techniques)? The draft does not claim  as a
solution against DoS attacks but probabilistically better resilience.

Rgds,

-- Kamran

From: Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12:36 +0800
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:p=
ranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>, <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, T=
homas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, Giles Heron=
 <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3


Hi all,
I've reviewed this draft, and have two comments that need to be clarifed:
1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute it with liveness tracking of =
session? Hello address maybe different with trasport address.
2. Target hellos are not only used for liveness track, but also parameter n=
egotiation and updating. When negotiated to infinite, what time interval wo=
uld be used to send the updated hello (e.g, hello with new Optional Paramet=
ers in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello i=
s not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?

Summary of review:
a. whether the document is coherent?
Good description on the motivation, need more detail in technical descripti=
on (e.g, refer to my second comment).

b. is it useful?
Yes.

d. is technically sound ?
Need some clarification.

e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption ?
After clarification, it should be ready for WG adoption.

Regards
Lizhong


Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>> wrote 2012/07=
/18 05:49:55:

> Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;
>
> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
>
> Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know th=
at
> this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.
>
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
> (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
> the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the
> document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have t=
o
> be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
>
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretar=
y,
> and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
> privately to only the WG chairs.
>
> Are you able to review this draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the I=
ETF
> meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice a=
nd
> that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us
> know if you need slightly more time.
>
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>
> PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau's email address listed in the draft is
> out of date. This email is being CC'd to his updated address.
>   _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@=
ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pls. refer my answers inline.<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:Per=
sonName
w:st=3D"on">Kamran Raza</st1:PersonName> (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]=
 <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 24, 2012=
 8:52
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Lizhong Jin; <st1:Person=
Name
w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:PersonName> (Pranjal); <st1:PersonName w:=
st=3D"on">mpls@ietf.org</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:PersonName> (giheron)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Ross Callon<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D=
'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Dear authors,<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>I've couple of
comments:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>1) I also have a
concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:</span></font><font size=
=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1E39F6'>&gt;&gt; Target=
 Hello
tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive tracks the live=
ness
of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track the liveness of hello
adjacency, &gt;&gt; or substitute it with liveness tracking of session?&nbs=
p;</span></font><font
size=3D1><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>The reduction of =
T-LDP
hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies related to forwarding
interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel ]. LDP requires an adjacency to be **<=
b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>live**</span></b>&nbsp;on an interface before MP=
LS
[labeled] forwarding can be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we =
are
using LDP-enabled TE tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically we inst=
all
unlabeled (LDP) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-adj over TE
tunnel goes down. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to track the
liveness of the t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP LSP over =
TE
tunnel in the forwarding even when there are issues with this t-adj.<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[Pranjal] Such liveliness can be track=
ed
by running BFD over RSVP. I mentioned that the hello reduction procedures c=
an
be deployed case by case and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is not mandatory. Did we mention in th=
e draft
that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp deployments? There are several ca=
ses
in access,. Aggregation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Networks where LdpoRsvp is not deploye=
d.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>2) Re: &quot;DoS
attacks&quot; as motivation for the tldp-reduc:</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Your document sta=
tes
that:</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:8.=
5pt;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#1E39F6'>&quot;</span></=
font><span
class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1E39F6'>Unlike TC=
P
sessions it is not always possible to</span></font></span><font size=3D1><s=
pan
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<pre style=3D'page-break-before:always'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1e39f6"
face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;color:#1E39F6'>&nbsp;&n=
bsp; provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos.&quot;</span></font><=
font
size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-famil=
y:"Times New Roman"'><br
clear=3Dall style=3D'page-break-before:always'>
</span></font>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Given new
procedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e.&nbsp;</span></font><span
class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D4 color=3Dblack face=3DConsolas><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'>draft-zheng-mpl=
s-ldp-hello-crypto-auth),</span></font></span><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>the above does no=
t seem
valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument to support tldp-reduc, IM=
O.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[Pranjal] Not sure what is the point y=
ou
are raising here. What about DoS attacks in networks from untrusted peers? =
How
would you provide resilience<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>to existing trusted peer adjacencies (=
that
is using ldp-crypto-auth) from spoofed attacks (without special techniques)=
? The
draft does not claim&nbsp; as a <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>solution against DoS attacks but
probabilistically better resilience. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Rgds,</span></fon=
t><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>-- Kamran</span><=
/font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold'=
>From:
</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Lizhong Jin &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12=
:36
+0800<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>&quot;<st1:PersonName w:=
st=3D"on">Dutta,
 Pranjal K</st1:PersonName> (Pranjal)&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pranjal.dutta@alcatel-luce=
nt.com</a>&gt;,
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:PersonName> &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tnadeau@juniper.net</a>&gt;, <st1:Perso=
nName
w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:PersonName> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giheron@cisc=
o.com">giheron@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc: </span></b>Ross Callon &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Hi all,</span></font><font size=
=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>I've reviewed this draft, and ha=
ve
two comments that need to be clarifed:</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>1. Target Hello tracks the liven=
ess
of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive tracks the liveness of session. Do =
you
mean it is not necessary to track the liveness of hello adjacency, or
substitute it with liveness tracking of session? Hello address maybe differ=
ent
with trasport address.</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCal=
ibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>2. Target hellos are not only us=
ed
for liveness track, but also parameter negotiation and updating. When
negotiated to infinite, what time interval would be used to send the update=
d
hello (e.g, hello with new Optional Parameters in potential
draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello is not reliable, w=
ould
be renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?</span></font><font siz=
e=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Summary of review:</span></font>=
<font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>a. whether the document is coher=
ent?</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Good description on the motivati=
on,
need more detail in technical description (e.g, refer to my second comment)=
.</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>b. is it useful? </span></font><=
font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Yes.</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>d. is technically sound ?</span>=
</font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Need some clarification.</span><=
/font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>e. is ready to be considered for=
 WG
adoption ?</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>After clarification, it should b=
e
ready for WG adoption.</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCal=
ibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Regards</span></font><font size=
=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Lizhong</span></font><font size=
=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Ross Callon &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote 2012/=
07/18
05:49:55:<br>
<br>
&gt; Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; You have been selected as a=
n
MPLS Review team reviewers for</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt;
draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; Note to authors: You have b=
een
CC&#8217;d on this email so that you can know that </span></font><font size=
=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; this review is going on.
However, please do not review your own document. </span></font><font size=
=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; Reviews should comment on
whether the document is coherent, is it useful</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; (ie, is it likely to be
actually useful in operational networks), and is</span></font><font size=3D=
1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; the document technically so=
und?
&nbsp;We are interested in knowing whether the </span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; document is ready to be
considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn&#8217;t have to</span></font><font=
 size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
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</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; be perfect at this point, b=
ut
should be a good start). </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3D=
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style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
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amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; Reviews should be sent to t=
he
document authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
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</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; and CC&#8217;d to the MPLS =
WG email
list. If necessary, comments may be sent </span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
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'font-size:
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chairs. </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
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size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; Are you able to review this
draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IETF </span></font><font size=
=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; meeting in <st1:City w:st=
=3D"on"><st1:place
 w:st=3D"on">Vancouver</st1:place></st1:City>)? We understand that this is
somewhat short notice and &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; that you might have somethi=
ng
else to do the week of the IETF, so let us </span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; know if you need slightly m=
ore
time. </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; Thanks, Ross</span></font><=
font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; (as MPLS WG chair)</span></=
font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; PS: I noticed that Tom Nade=
au&#8217;s
email address listed in the draft is<br>
&gt; out of date. This email is being CC&#8217;d to his updated address. </=
span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font
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amily:Calibri;
color:black'> _______________________________________________ mpls mailing =
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From pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com  Tue Jul 24 09:23:00 2012
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From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:52:42 +0530
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Giles Heron <giheron@cisco.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Hi Lizhong,


[Lizhong] My concern is tracking of T-LDP hello source address by BFD or LD=
P session (on condition that transport address is same as hello address) co=
uld not substitue the liveness of the UDP connection of hello adjacency. Fo=
r example, when LDP session is setup, and hello adjacency has negotiated to=
 infinite time, althought the hello address is IP reachable, but if UDP por=
t '646' is incorrectly closed or some other UDP problem accured, the hello =
adjacency in fact is down, but you could not detect this with infinite hold=
 time. Then I mean hello reduction should be used with caution that the UDP=
 will not accure any potential problem. Maybe I missed something.

Yes, you are correct. If there is a bug in S/w that closes port 646 acciden=
tally and then with hello reduction it would take long time to detect. But =
if a port 646 is closed accidently by a peer but without gracefully shuttin=
g down LDP session then don't we already have a bigger problem? In that way=
 we can contest
against many solutions that has a bottom line for resilience against bugs. =
This is a good point you raised and we would mention it explicitly in the d=
raft. Note
that when LDP is deployed in large scale MPLS access, aggregation, seamless=
 MPLS etc the priority is resilience for adjacencies. There are special
techniques that an implementation can adopt (e.g H/w assisted) to provide s=
uch resilience but there are cost functions associated with and we may not
be able to take uniform view of LDP in general.

Thanks,
Pranjal

________________________________
From: Lizhong Jin [mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:17 AM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
Cc: Giles Heron; loa@pi.nu; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); Markus Jork; mpls@i=
etf.org; Ross Callon; swallow@cisco.com; Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de; Thomas=
 Nadeau
Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03


Hi Pranjal,
Thanks for the prompt response. See inline below.

Regards
Lizhong


"Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote 2012/=
07/24 10:37:54:

> Hi Lizhong,
>                   Thanks for review. Please refer my answers inline.
>
> Cheers,
> Pranjal
>
> From: Lizhong Jin [mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn]
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:13 AM
> To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); mpls@ietf.org; Thomas Nadeau; Giles Heron
> Cc: loa@pi.nu; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); Markus Jork; Ross Callon;
> swallow@cisco.com; Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de
> Subject: Re: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
>
>
> Hi all,
> I've reviewed this draft, and have two comments that need to be clarifed:
> 1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP
> keepalive tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not
> necessary to track the liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute it
> with liveness tracking of session? Hello address maybe different
> with trasport address.
>
> [Pranjal]  It depends on case by case. For example when transport
> address of the LDP session is different from the IP addresses used
> to exchange t-ldp hellos, then probably it is not RECOMMENDED to use
> hello reduction procedures, since sessions keepallives are not
> really substitute of "reachability" or "liveliness" of the
> adjacency. Alternately it is possible to track the reachability of
> t-ldp sources by means of other fast protocols (e.g BFD and others etc).
> In such a case, the t-ldp hellos could be redundant after initial
> discovery done and session set-up is complete. When peers are
> asymmetric w.r.t hello reduction support (one peer supports while
> the other does not), then the situation falls back to what we have
> with RFC 5036.
[Lizhong] My concern is tracking of T-LDP hello source address by BFD or LD=
P session (on condition that transport address is same as hello address) co=
uld not substitue the liveness of the UDP connection of hello adjacency. Fo=
r example, when LDP session is setup, and hello adjacency has negotiated to=
 infinite time, althought the hello address is IP reachable, but if UDP por=
t '646' is incorrectly closed or some other UDP problem accured, the hello =
adjacency in fact is down, but you could not detect this with infinite hold=
 time. Then I mean hello reduction should be used with caution that the UDP=
 will not accure any potential problem. Maybe I missed something.

>
>
> 2. Target hellos are not only used for liveness track, but also
> parameter negotiation and updating. When negotiated to infinite,
> what time interval would be used to send the updated hello (e.g,
> hello with new Optional Parameters in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-
> ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello is not reliable, would be
> renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?
>
> [Pranjal] An updated hello can be sent at any time (whenever any
> param is changed to reflect the change to peer) without any changes
> in "current"
> hold time (e.g infinite) that was advertised in the last hello
> message. Means it is not necessary to fallback to configured hold
> time and restart the reduction process (in fact not desirable). For
> example, it could be changes in one or more hello adjacency
> capabilities as described in the aforementioned draft or could be
> any of the existing standard params such as configSeqNum etc. Since
> hellos are not reliable, after any parameter change an implementation
> may send a set of hellos (let's say 5) at configured intervals (or
> faster) to reflect the change. But those hellos would continue to
> advertise infinite hold time
> and would fall back to reduced rate after those 5 packets are sent.
[Lizhong] It is clear now, thank you.

>
> However, changes like IPV4 or IPV6 transport address etc may restart
> the session that can result in starting hello reduction from scratch.
>
> I agree that in its current state draft doesn't describe the
> solution and its flexibilities in adequate detail. We would
> definitely address those.
[Lizhong] Thank you.

>
>
> Summary of review:
> a. whether the document is coherent?
> Good description on the motivation, need more detail in technical
> description (e.g, refer to my second comment).
>
> b. is it useful?
> Yes.
>
> d. is technically sound ?
> Need some clarification.
>
> e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption ?
> After clarification, it should be ready for WG adoption.
>
> Regards
> Lizhong
>
>
> Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> wrote 2012/07/18 05:49:55:
>
> > Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;
> >
> > You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> > draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
> >
> > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know =
that
> > this review is going on. However, please do not review your own documen=
t.
> >
> > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it usefu=
l
> > (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and i=
s
> > the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether t=
he
> > document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have=
 to
> > be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
> >
> > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secret=
ary,
> > and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
> > privately to only the WG chairs.
> >
> > Are you able to review this draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end
> of the IETF
> > meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short
> notice and
> > that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let u=
s
> > know if you need slightly more time.
> >
> > Thanks, Ross
> > (as MPLS WG chair)
> >
> > PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau's email address listed in the draft is
> > out of date. This email is being CC'd to his updated address.
> >

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi Lizhong,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>[Lizhong] My concern is tracking of T-LDP hello sou=
rce
address by BFD or LDP session (on condition that transport address is same =
as
hello address) could not substitue the liveness of the UDP connection of he=
llo
adjacency. For example, when LDP session is setup, and hello adjacency has
negotiated to infinite time, althought the hello address is IP reachable, b=
ut
if UDP port '646' is incorrectly closed or some other UDP problem accured, =
the
hello adjacency in fact is down, but you could not detect this with infinit=
e
hold time. Then I mean hello reduction should be used with caution that the=
 UDP
will not accure any potential problem. Maybe I missed something.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Yes, you are correct. If there is a bu=
g in
S/w that closes port 646 accidentally and then with hello reduction it woul=
d
take long time to detect. But if a port 646 is closed accidently by a peer =
but without
gracefully shutting down LDP session then don&#8217;t we already have a big=
ger
problem? In that way we can contest <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>against many solutions that has a bott=
om line
for resilience against bugs. This is a good point you raised and we would
mention it explicitly in the draft. Note<br>
that when LDP is deployed in large scale MPLS access, aggregation, seamless
MPLS etc the priority is resilience for adjacencies. There are special<br>
techniques that an implementation can adopt (e.g H/w assisted) to provide s=
uch
resilience but there are cost functions associated with and we may not <o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>be able to take uniform view of LDP in
general. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Pranjal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Lizhong =
Jin
[mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</st1:PersonName>=
] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 24, 2012=
 1:17
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"=
on">Dutta,
 Pranjal K</st1:PersonName> (Pranjal)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"=
on">Giles
 Heron</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">loa@pi.nu</st1:PersonN=
ame>; <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">VIGOUREUX, MARTIN</st1:PersonName> (MARTIN); Markus Jork; <st1:=
PersonName
w:st=3D"on">mpls@ietf.org</st1:PersonName>; Ross Callon; <st1:PersonName w:=
st=3D"on">swallow@cisco.com</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de</st1:PersonName>; <s=
t1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: MPLS-RT review =
of
draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Hi Pranjal,</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Thanks
for the prompt response. See inline below.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Regards</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Lizhong</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family=
:sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&quot;<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:PersonName> (Pranjal)&quot;
&lt;pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com&gt; wrote 2012/07/24 10:37:54:<br>
<br>
&gt; Hi Lizhong,</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks for
review. Please refer my answers inline.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
Cheers,</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
Pranjal</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
<br>
&gt; From: Lizhong Jin [mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">lizhong.jin@zte.=
com.cn</st1:PersonName>]
<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:13 AM<br>
&gt; To: <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:PersonName> (Pra=
njal);
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">mpls@ietf.org</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Gil=
es Heron</st1:PersonName><br>
&gt; Cc: <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">loa@pi.nu</st1:PersonName>; <st1:Perso=
nName
w:st=3D"on">VIGOUREUX, MARTIN</st1:PersonName> (MARTIN); Markus Jork; Ross
Callon;<br>
&gt; <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">swallow@cisco.com</st1:PersonName>; <st1:P=
ersonName
w:st=3D"on">Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de</st1:PersonName><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<=
/span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
<br>
&gt; Hi all, <br>
&gt; I've reviewed this draft, and have two comments that need to be clarif=
ed: <br>
&gt; 1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP <br>
&gt; keepalive tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not <br>
&gt; necessary to track the liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute it<b=
r>
&gt; with liveness tracking of session? Hello address maybe different <br>
&gt; with trasport address. </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
[Pranjal] &nbsp;It depends on case by case. For example when transport <br>
&gt; address of the LDP session is different from the IP addresses used <br=
>
&gt; to exchange t-ldp hellos, then probably it is not RECOMMENDED to use<b=
r>
&gt; hello reduction procedures, since sessions keepallives are not <br>
&gt; really substitute of &quot;reachability&quot; or &#8220;liveliness&#82=
21; of the <br>
&gt; adjacency. Alternately it is possible to track the reachability of <br=
>
&gt; t-ldp sources by means of other fast protocols (e.g BFD and others etc=
). <br>
&gt; In such a case, the t-ldp hellos could be redundant after initial <br>
&gt; discovery done and session set-up is complete. When peers are <br>
&gt; asymmetric w.r.t hello reduction support (one peer supports while <br>
&gt; the other does not), then the situation falls back to what we have <br=
>
&gt; with RFC 5036.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>[Lizhong]
My concern is tracking of T-LDP hello source address by BFD or LDP session =
(on
condition that transport address is same as hello address) could not substi=
tue
the liveness of the UDP connection of hello adjacency. For example, when LD=
P
session is setup, and hello adjacency has negotiated to infinite time,
althought the hello address is IP reachable, but if UDP port '646' is
incorrectly closed or some other UDP problem accured, the hello adjacency i=
n
fact is down, but you could not detect this with infinite hold time. Then I
mean hello reduction should be used with caution that the UDP will not accu=
re
any potential problem. Maybe I missed something.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
<br>
&gt; 2. Target hellos are not only used for liveness track, but also <br>
&gt; parameter negotiation and updating. When negotiated to infinite, <br>
&gt; what time interval would be used to send the updated hello (e.g, <br>
&gt; hello with new Optional Parameters in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-<br>
&gt; ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello is not reliable, would be <br>
&gt; renegotiated to configured hello hold time first? </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
[Pranjal] An updated hello can be sent at any time (whenever any <br>
&gt; param is changed to reflect the change to peer) without any changes <b=
r>
&gt; in &#8220;current&#8221; <br>
&gt; hold time (e.g infinite) that was advertised in the last hello <br>
&gt; message. Means it is not necessary to fallback to configured hold <br>
&gt; time and restart the reduction process (in fact not desirable). For <b=
r>
&gt; example, it could be changes in one or more hello adjacency <br>
&gt; capabilities as described in the aforementioned draft or could be <br>
&gt; any of the existing standard params such as configSeqNum etc. Since <b=
r>
&gt; hellos are not reliable, after any parameter change an implementation =
<br>
&gt; may send a set of hellos (let&#8217;s say 5) at configured intervals (=
or <br>
&gt; faster) to reflect the change. But those hellos would continue to <br>
&gt; advertise infinite hold time<br>
&gt; and would fall back to reduced rate after those 5 packets are sent. </=
span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>[Lizhong]
It is clear now, thank you.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
However, changes like IPV4 or IPV6 transport address etc may restart<br>
&gt; the session that can result in starting hello reduction from scratch. =
</span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
&nbsp;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
I agree that in its current state draft doesn&#8217;t describe the <br>
&gt; solution and its flexibilities in adequate detail. We would <br>
&gt; definitely address those.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>[Lizhong]
Thank you.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>&gt;
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Summary of review: <br>
&gt; a. whether the document is coherent? <br>
&gt; Good description on the motivation, need more detail in technical <br>
&gt; description (e.g, refer to my second comment). <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; b. is it useful? <br>
&gt; Yes. <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; d. is technically sound ? <br>
&gt; Need some clarification. <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption ? <br>
&gt; After clarification, it should be ready for WG adoption. <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Regards <br>
&gt; Lizhong <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Ross Callon &lt;rcallon@juniper.net&gt; wrote 2012/07/18 05:49:55:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Markus, Lizhong, Thomas; <br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for <br>
&gt; &gt; draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03 <br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; Note to authors: You have been CC&#8217;d on this email so that y=
ou can
know that <br>
&gt; &gt; this review is going on. However, please do not review your own d=
ocument.
<br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
useful <br>
&gt; &gt; (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks),=
 and
is <br>
&gt; &gt; the document technically sound? &nbsp;We are interested in knowin=
g
whether the <br>
&gt; &gt; document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn&=
#8217;t
have to <br>
&gt; &gt; be perfect at this point, but should be a good start). <br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
secretary,<br>
&gt; &gt; and CC&#8217;d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments =
may be
sent <br>
&gt; &gt; privately to only the WG chairs. <br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; Are you able to review this draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end =
<br>
&gt; of the IETF <br>
&gt; &gt; meeting in <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Vancouver=
</st1:place></st1:City>)?
We understand that this is somewhat short <br>
&gt; notice and &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so=
 let
us <br>
&gt; &gt; know if you need slightly more time. <br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; Thanks, Ross <br>
&gt; &gt; (as MPLS WG chair) <br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau&#8217;s email address listed in the=
 draft is<br>
&gt; &gt; out of date. This email is being CC&#8217;d to his updated addres=
s. <br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

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From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>, "Lizhong Jin" <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "Giles Heron (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Hi Pranjal,

>> Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP
But BFDoRSVP will be able to detect TE tunnel issues only, but not necessar=
ily LDP's t-hello issues over TE tunnel.
What if T-adj becomes invalid due to LDP config/events [ e.g. Remote node n=
o more accepting t-hellos ] ?


>> Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp de=
ployments?
No, and I also did not claim that you did :-)
I  am just commenting that such procedure may cause issues  with T-LDP over=
 fwding interfaces.

Rgds.


From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto=
:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:40:31 +0530
To: "Syed Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com<mailto:skraza@cisco.com>>=
, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>, "mpl=
s@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, Th=
omas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, "Giles Heron=
 (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Pls. refer my answers inline.

________________________________
From: Kamran Raza (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:52 AM
To: Lizhong Jin; Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf=
.org>; Thomas Nadeau; Giles Heron (giheron)
Cc: Ross Callon
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Dear authors,

I've couple of comments:

1) I also have a concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:

>> Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, >> or substitute it with liveness tracking =
of session?

The reduction of T-LDP hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies rel=
ated to forwarding interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel ]. LDP requires an =
adjacency to be **live** on an interface before MPLS [labeled] forwarding c=
an be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we are using LDP-enabled =
TE tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically we install unlabeled (LDP=
) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-adj over TE tunnel goes do=
wn. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to track the liveness of the =
t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP LSP over TE tunnel in the=
 forwarding even when there are issues with this t-adj.

[Pranjal] Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP. I mentio=
ned that the hello reduction procedures can be deployed case by case and
Is not mandatory. Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST =
for LdpoRsvp deployments? There are several cases in access,. Aggregation
Networks where LdpoRsvp is not deployed.

2) Re: "DoS attacks" as motivation for the tldp-reduc:
Your document states that:

"Unlike TCP sessions it is not always possible to

   provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos."

Given new procedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e. draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hel=
lo-crypto-auth),
the above does not seem valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument t=
o support tldp-reduc, IMO.

[Pranjal] Not sure what is the point you are raising here. What about DoS a=
ttacks in networks from untrusted peers? How would you provide resilience
to existing trusted peer adjacencies (that is using ldp-crypto-auth) from s=
poofed attacks (without special techniques)? The draft does not claim  as a
solution against DoS attacks but probabilistically better resilience.

Rgds,

-- Kamran

From: Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12:36 +0800
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:p=
ranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>, <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, T=
homas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, Giles Heron=
 <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3


Hi all,
I've reviewed this draft, and have two comments that need to be clarifed:
1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute it with liveness tracking of =
session? Hello address maybe different with trasport address.
2. Target hellos are not only used for liveness track, but also parameter n=
egotiation and updating. When negotiated to infinite, what time interval wo=
uld be used to send the updated hello (e.g, hello with new Optional Paramet=
ers in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello i=
s not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?

Summary of review:
a. whether the document is coherent?
Good description on the motivation, need more detail in technical descripti=
on (e.g, refer to my second comment).

b. is it useful?
Yes.

d. is technically sound ?
Need some clarification.

e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption ?
After clarification, it should be ready for WG adoption.

Regards
Lizhong


Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>> wrote 2012/07=
/18 05:49:55:

> Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;
>
> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
>
> Note to authors: You have been CC=92d on this email so that you can know =
that
> this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.
>
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
> (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
> the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the
> document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=92t have=
 to
> be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
>
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretar=
y,
> and CC=92d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
> privately to only the WG chairs.
>
> Are you able to review thisdraft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IE=
TF
> meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice a=
nd
> that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us
> know if you need slightly more time.
>
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>
> PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau=92s email address listed in the draft is
> out of date. This email is being CC=92d to his updated address.
>   _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@=
ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--_000_CC344258101DEskrazaciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; ">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-famil=
y: Arial; font-size: 13px; ">Hi Pranjal,</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-famil=
y: Arial; font-size: 13px; "><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-famil=
y: Arial; font-size: 13px; ">&gt;&gt; Such liveliness can be tracked by run=
ning BFD over RSVP</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
But BFDoRSVP will be able to detect TE tunnel issues only, but not necessar=
ily LDP's t-hello issues over TE tunnel.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
What if T-adj becomes invalid due to LDP config/events [ e.g. Remote node n=
o more accepting t-hellos ] ?</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-famil=
y: Arial; font-size: 13px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font=
-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</span></span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-famil=
y: Arial; font-size: 13px; ">&gt;&gt; Did we mention in the draft that hell=
o reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp deployments?&nbsp;</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
No, and I also did not claim that you did :-)&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
I &nbsp;am just commenting that such procedure may cause issues &nbsp;with =
T-LDP over fwding interfaces.</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
Rgds.</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: =
14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranj=
al)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pranjal.d=
utta@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:40:31 &#4=
3;0530<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;Syed Kamran Raza (skraza)=
&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">skraza@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Li=
zhong Jin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com=
.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Thomas Nadeau =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tnadeau@juniper.net</a>&gt;, &qu=
ot;Giles Heron (giheron)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giheron@cisco.com">gih=
eron@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Ross Callon &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review =
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" style=3D"word-wrap: break-=
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<div class=3D"Section1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Pls. refer my answers inline.<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font=
 size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" tabindex=3D"-1">
</span></font></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2=
" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Kamran Raza</st1:personname> (skraza) [<a href=
=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">mailto:skraza@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 24, 2012=
 8:52 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Lizhong Jin; <st1:person=
name w:st=3D"on">
Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname> (Pranjal); <st1:personname w:st=3D"on"><a=
 href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a></st1:personname>;
<st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:personname>; <st1:personname=
 w:st=3D"on">
Giles Heron</st1:personname> (giheron)<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Ross Callon<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Dear authors,=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">I've couple o=
f comments:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">1) I also hav=
e a concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:</span></font><font s=
ize=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1E39F6">&gt;&gt; =
Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive tr=
acks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is
 not necessary to track the liveness of hello adjacency, &gt;&gt; or substi=
tute it with liveness tracking of session?&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D=
"1"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt">
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">The reduction=
 of T-LDP hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies related to forwa=
rding interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel
 ]. LDP requires an adjacency to be **<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">l=
ive**</span></b>&nbsp;on an interface before MPLS [labeled] forwarding can =
be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we are using LDP-enabled TE =
tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically
 we install unlabeled (LDP) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-=
adj over TE tunnel goes down. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to =
track the liveness of the t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP=
 LSP over TE tunnel in the forwarding
 even when there are issues with this t-adj.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">[Pranjal] Such liveliness can be track=
ed by running BFD over RSVP. I mentioned that the hello reduction procedure=
s can be deployed case
 by case and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Is not mandatory. Did we mention in th=
e draft that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp deployments? There are se=
veral cases in access,.
 Aggregation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Networks where LdpoRsvp is not deploye=
d.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">2) Re: &quot;=
DoS attacks&quot; as motivation for the tldp-reduc:</span></font><font size=
=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font=
-family:Calibri;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Your document=
 states that:</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black"><span style=3D"=
font-size:8.5pt;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New R=
oman"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3D"Courier">=
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#1E39F6">&quot;</s=
pan></font><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1e39=
f6" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size: 9.5pt; color: rgb(30, 57=
, 246); font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Unlike
 TCP sessions it is not always possible to</span></font></span><font size=
=3D"1"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1e39f6" =
face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;color:#1E39F6">&nbsp;&n=
bsp; provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos.&quot;</span></font><=
font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
pre>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 9.5pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><br clear=3D"all" style=3D"page-break-bef=
ore:always">
</span></font>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Given new pro=
cedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e.&nbsp;</span></font><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"black" face=3D"Consolas"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">draft-zheng-mpls-l=
dp-hello-crypto-auth),</span></font></span><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black"=
><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">the above doe=
s not seem valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument to support tld=
p-reduc, IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">[Pranjal] Not sure what is the point y=
ou are raising here. What about DoS attacks in networks from untrusted peer=
s? How would you provide
 resilience<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">to existing trusted peer adjacencies (=
that is using ldp-crypto-auth) from spoofed attacks (without special techni=
ques)? The draft does
 not claim&nbsp; as a <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">solution against DoS attacks but proba=
bilistically better resilience.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New R=
oman"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Rgds,</span><=
/font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font=
-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">-- Kamran</sp=
an></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weigh=
t:bold">From:
</span></font></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Lizhong Jin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
izhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span></b>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12=
:36 &#43;0800<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span></b>&quot;<st1:personname w:=
st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname> (Pranjal)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com</=
a>&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
<st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:personname> &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tnadeau@juniper.net</a>&gt;,
<st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:personname> &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:giheron@cisco.com">giheron@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span></b>Ross Callon &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></b>Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">Hi all,</span></font><font size=
=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font=
-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">I've reviewed this draft, and ha=
ve two comments that need to be clarifed:</span></font><font size=3D"1" col=
or=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Ca=
libri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">1. Target Hello tracks the liven=
ess of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive tracks the liveness of session.=
 Do you mean it is not
 necessary to track the liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute it with =
liveness tracking of session? Hello address maybe different with trasport a=
ddress.</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">2. Target hellos are not only us=
ed for liveness track, but also parameter negotiation and updating. When ne=
gotiated to infinite,
 what time interval would be used to send the updated hello (e.g, hello wit=
h new Optional Parameters in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability=
) message? UDP hello is not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured h=
ello hold time first?</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D=
"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">Summary of review:</span></font>=
<font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:=
8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">a. whether the document is coher=
ent?</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">Good description on the motivati=
on, need more detail in technical description (e.g, refer to my second comm=
ent).</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span =
style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">b. is it useful?
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">Yes.</span></font><font size=3D"=
1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">d. is technically sound ?</span>=
</font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">Need some clarification.</span><=
/font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font=
-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">e. is ready to be considered for=
 WG adoption ?</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibr=
i"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">After clarification, it should b=
e ready for WG adoption.</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=
=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black=
"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">Regards</span></font><font size=
=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font=
-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">Lizhong</span></font><font size=
=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font=
-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">Ross Callon &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote 2012/07/18 05:49:5=
5:<br>
<br>
&gt; Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black"=
 face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:=
black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font s=
ize=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; You have been selected as a=
n MPLS Review team reviewers for</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"bla=
ck" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;col=
or:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hell=
o-reduce-03</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font s=
ize=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; Note to authors: You have b=
een CC=92d on this email so that you can know that
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; this review is going on. Ho=
wever, please do not review your own document.
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font s=
ize=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; Reviews should comment on w=
hether the document is coherent, is it useful</span></font><font size=3D"1"=
 color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; (ie, is it likely to be act=
ually useful in operational networks), and is</span></font><font size=3D"1"=
 color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; the document technically so=
und? &nbsp;We are interested in knowing whether the
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; document is ready to be con=
sidered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=92t have to</span></font><font size=
=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font=
-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; be perfect at this point, b=
ut should be a good start).
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font s=
ize=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; Reviews should be sent to t=
he document authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,</span></font><font size=3D=
"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; and CC=92d to the MPLS WG e=
mail list. If necessary, comments may be sent
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; privately to only the WG ch=
airs.
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font s=
ize=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; Are you able to review this=
draft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IETF
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; meeting in
<st1:city w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Vancouver</st1:place></st1:cit=
y>)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice and &nbsp;</span></fo=
nt><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; that you might have somethi=
ng else to do the week of the IETF, so let us
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; know if you need slightly m=
ore time.
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font s=
ize=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; Thanks, Ross</span></font><=
font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8=
.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; (as MPLS WG chair)</span></=
font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-=
size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font s=
ize=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; PS: I noticed that Tom Nade=
au=92s email address listed in the draft is<br>
&gt; out of date. This email is being CC=92d to his updated address. </span=
></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font s=
ize=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;
color:black"> _______________________________________________
 mpls mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a> <a hr=
ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></div>
</span>
</body>
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From erosen@cisco.com  Tue Jul 24 09:36:42 2012
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To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 24 Jul 2012 04:15:45 +0530. <C584046466ED224CA92C1BC3313B963E09F2162845@INBANSXCHMBSA3.in.alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:36:40 -0400
Message-ID: <3254.1343147800@erosen-linux>
From: Eric Rosen <erosen@cisco.com>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Giles Heron <giheron@cisco.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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> Although the draft re-uses the Hello negotiation method as in RFC 5036, it
> does define procedures for reduction (section 4).

I think the only thing that is new is the idea of configuring two hold
times, one to be used before the session is established and one (infinite)
to be used after.

> If we read the section 4, it mentions that Hello Reduction starts only
> after a LDP session is ESTABLISHED. There are additional well known
> security methods to secure LDP session (e.g TCP MD5).

The fact that the session is established does not provide authentication or
integrity for the Hellos.  There is no way to know that any particular
received Hello originated from the trusted peer, or that it has not been
modified, or that it is not a replay of an earlier Hello.  That is, the
security problems with Targeted Hellos are not mitigated by the fact that
the LDP session is secured.  So even after the session is established,
spoofed Hellos can be used to trick the two peers into using different hold
times.

Bad parameters specified in a received spoofed Hello will eventually get
overwritten by the good parameters specified in the next received authentic
Hello.  Thus the less frequent the authentic Hellos are, the longer it will
take before the bad parameter is overwritten with the good parameter.  

> If LDP session transport address is  different from IP addresses used for
> T-LDP hellos then Session Keepalives are not substitute. But if we want to
> use protocols like BFD for fast tracking reachability of T-LDP IPs (there
> are other protocols as well) then Hellos are redundant.

The draft seems to recommend the use of "hello reduction" with infinite hold
time.  If there are situations in which this is not a good idea, the draft
should describe those.











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From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "Giles Heron (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Hi Kamran,
                        Please refer inline.

Thanks,
Pranjal

________________________________
From: Kamran Raza (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:31 AM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); Lizhong Jin; mpls@ietf.org; Thomas Nadeau; =
Giles Heron (giheron)
Cc: Ross Callon
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Hi Pranjal,

>> Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP
But BFDoRSVP will be able to detect TE tunnel issues only, but not necessar=
ily LDP's t-hello issues over TE tunnel.
What if T-adj becomes invalid due to LDP config/events [ e.g. Remote node n=
o more accepting t-hellos ] ?

[Pranjal] This is a missing  piece in RFC 5036 which IMO should be addresse=
d separately. Even if we don't pursue infinite hold time
as per the draft it is still possible that t-ldp adjacency may become inval=
id for prolonged period when hello hold timers are relaxed
(e.g 180 sec etc). by RFC 5036 there is no upper bound on hello hold time a=
nd large scale deployments (e.g ~ 10K T-LDP peers) tend
to use relaxed hold time.


>> Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp de=
ployments?
No, and I also did not claim that you did :-)
I  am just commenting that such procedure may cause issues  with T-LDP over=
 fwding interfaces.

Rgds.


From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto=
:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:40:31 +0530
To: "Syed Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com<mailto:skraza@cisco.com>>=
, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>, "mpl=
s@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, Th=
omas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, "Giles Heron=
 (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Pls. refer my answers inline.

________________________________
From: Kamran Raza (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:52 AM
To: Lizhong Jin; Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf=
.org>; Thomas Nadeau; Giles Heron (giheron)
Cc: Ross Callon
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Dear authors,

I've couple of comments:

1) I also have a concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:

>> Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, >> or substitute it with liveness tracking =
of session?

The reduction of T-LDP hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies rel=
ated to forwarding interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel ]. LDP requires an =
adjacency to be **live** on an interface before MPLS [labeled] forwarding c=
an be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we are using LDP-enabled =
TE tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically we install unlabeled (LDP=
) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-adj over TE tunnel goes do=
wn. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to track the liveness of the =
t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP LSP over TE tunnel in the=
 forwarding even when there are issues with this t-adj.

[Pranjal] Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP. I mentio=
ned that the hello reduction procedures can be deployed case by case and
Is not mandatory. Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST =
for LdpoRsvp deployments? There are several cases in access,. Aggregation
Networks where LdpoRsvp is not deployed.

2) Re: "DoS attacks" as motivation for the tldp-reduc:
Your document states that:

"Unlike TCP sessions it is not always possible to

   provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos."

Given new procedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e. draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hel=
lo-crypto-auth),
the above does not seem valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument t=
o support tldp-reduc, IMO.

[Pranjal] Not sure what is the point you are raising here. What about DoS a=
ttacks in networks from untrusted peers? How would you provide resilience
to existing trusted peer adjacencies (that is using ldp-crypto-auth) from s=
poofed attacks (without special techniques)? The draft does not claim  as a
solution against DoS attacks but probabilistically better resilience.

Rgds,

-- Kamran

From: Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12:36 +0800
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:p=
ranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>, <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, T=
homas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, Giles Heron=
 <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3


Hi all,
I've reviewed this draft, and have two comments that need to be clarifed:
1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute it with liveness tracking of =
session? Hello address maybe different with trasport address.
2. Target hellos are not only used for liveness track, but also parameter n=
egotiation and updating. When negotiated to infinite, what time interval wo=
uld be used to send the updated hello (e.g, hello with new Optional Paramet=
ers in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello i=
s not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?

Summary of review:
a. whether the document is coherent?
Good description on the motivation, need more detail in technical descripti=
on (e.g, refer to my second comment).

b. is it useful?
Yes.

d. is technically sound ?
Need some clarification.

e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption ?
After clarification, it should be ready for WG adoption.

Regards
Lizhong


Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>> wrote 2012/07=
/18 05:49:55:

> Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;
>
> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
>
> Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know th=
at
> this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.
>
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
> (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
> the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the
> document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have t=
o
> be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
>
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretar=
y,
> and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
> privately to only the WG chairs.
>
> Are you able to review thisdraft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IE=
TF
> meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice a=
nd
> that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us
> know if you need slightly more time.
>
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>
> PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau's email address listed in the draft is
> out of date. This email is being CC'd to his updated address.
>   _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@=
ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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</head>

<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue style=3D'word-wrap: break-word;=
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi Kamran,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Please refer inline.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Pranjal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:Per=
sonName
w:st=3D"on">Kamran Raza</st1:PersonName> (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]=
 <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 24, 2012=
 9:31
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"=
on">Dutta,
 Pranjal K</st1:PersonName> (Pranjal); Lizhong Jin; <st1:PersonName w:st=3D=
"on">mpls@ietf.org</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:PersonName> (giheron)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Ross Callon<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D=
'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D1 color=3D=
navy
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>H=
i
Pranjal,</span></font></span><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><s=
pan
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D1 color=3D=
navy
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&=
gt;&gt;
Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP</span></font></span=
><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>But BFDoRSVP will=
 be
able to detect TE tunnel issues only, but not necessarily LDP's t-hello iss=
ues
over TE tunnel.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>What if T-adj bec=
omes
invalid due to LDP config/events [ e.g. Remote node no more accepting t-hel=
los
] ?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>[Pranjal] This is a missing&nbsp; piec=
e in
RFC 5036 which IMO should be addressed separately. Even if we don&#8217;t
pursue infinite hold time <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>as per the draft it is still possible =
that
t-ldp adjacency may become invalid for prolonged period when hello hold tim=
ers
are relaxed <br>
(e.g 180 sec etc). by RFC 5036 there is no upper bound on hello hold time a=
nd
large scale deployments (e.g ~ 10K T-LDP peers) tend <o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>to use relaxed hold time.<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D1 color=3D=
navy
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&=
gt;&gt;
Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp
deployments?&nbsp;</span></font></span><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3D=
Calibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>No, and I also di=
d not
claim that you did :-)&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>I &nbsp;am just
commenting that such procedure may cause issues &nbsp;with T-LDP over fwdin=
g
interfaces.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Rgds.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold'=
><span
id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">From: </span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bl=
ack'>&quot;<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:PersonName> (Pranjal)&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pranjal.dutta@alcatel-luce=
nt.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:40=
:31
+0530<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>&quot;Syed <st1:PersonNa=
me
w:st=3D"on">Kamran Raza</st1:PersonName> (skraza)&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">skraza@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Lizhong Jin &lt;=
<a
href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;, &quo=
t;<a
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <st1:PersonName w:st=
=3D"on">Thomas
 Nadeau</st1:PersonName> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tnadeau=
@juniper.net</a>&gt;,
&quot;<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:PersonName> (giheron)&qu=
ot;
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giheron@cisco.com">giheron@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc: </span></b>Ross Callon &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags=
" name=3D"City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:=
office:smarttags" name=3D"place"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schem=
as-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName">

<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<div link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue style=3D'word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-m=
ode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pls. refer my answers inline.<u1:p></u=
1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;colo=
r:black'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>=
From:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:Tahoma;
color:black'> <st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Kamr=
an Raza</st1:personname></st1:PersonName>
(skraza) [<a href=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">mailto:skraza@cisco.com</a>] =
<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 24, 2012=
 8:52
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Lizhong Jin; <st1:person=
name u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname></st1:PersonName> (Pranjal); <=
st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><a
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a></st1:personname>; <st1:pers=
onname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:personname></st1:PersonName>; <st1:personnam=
e u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:personname></st1:PersonName> (giheron)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Ross Callon<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Dear authors,<u1:=
p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>I've couple of co=
mments:<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>1) I also have a
concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1E39F6'>&gt;&gt; Target=
 Hello
tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive tracks the live=
ness
of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track the liveness of hello
adjacency, &gt;&gt; or substitute it with liveness tracking of session?&nbs=
p;</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;color:black'> </span>=
</font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>The reduction of =
T-LDP
hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies related to forwarding
interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel ]. LDP requires an adjacency to be **<=
b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>live**</span></b>&nbsp;on an interface before MP=
LS
[labeled] forwarding can be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we =
are
using LDP-enabled TE tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically we inst=
all
unlabeled (LDP) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-adj over TE
tunnel goes down. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to track the
liveness of the t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP LSP over =
TE
tunnel in the forwarding even when there are issues with this t-adj.<u1:p><=
/u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[Pranjal] Such liveliness can be track=
ed
by running BFD over RSVP. I mentioned that the hello reduction procedures c=
an
be deployed case by case and<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack>=
<span
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is not mandatory. Did we mention in th=
e
draft that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp deployments? There are seve=
ral
cases in access,. Aggregation<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack=
><span
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Networks where LdpoRsvp is not deploye=
d.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>2) Re: &quot;DoS
attacks&quot; as motivation for the tldp-reduc:</span></font><font color=3D=
black><span
style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Your document sta=
tes
that:</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></=
u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#1E39F6'>&quot;</span></=
font><span
class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1E39F6'>Unlike TC=
P
sessions it is not always possible to</span></font></span><font color=3Dbla=
ck><span
style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<pre style=3D'page-break-before:always'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1e39f6"
face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;color:#1E39F6'>&nbsp;&n=
bsp; provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos.&quot;</span></font><=
font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:9.=
5pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'><br clear=3Dall style=3D'page-br=
eak-before:
always'>
</span></font>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Given new
procedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e.&nbsp;</span></font><span
class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D4 color=3Dblack face=3DConsolas><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'>draft-zheng-mpl=
s-ldp-hello-crypto-auth),</span></font></span><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>the above does no=
t seem
valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument to support tldp-reduc, IM=
O.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[Pranjal] Not sure what is the point y=
ou
are raising here. What about DoS attacks in networks from untrusted peers? =
How
would you provide resilience<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack>=
<span
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>to existing trusted peer adjacencies (=
that
is using ldp-crypto-auth) from spoofed attacks (without special techniques)=
?
The draft does not claim&nbsp; as a <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>solution against DoS attacks but
probabilistically better resilience. <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Rgds,</span></fon=
t><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>-- Kamran</span><=
/font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold'=
>From:
</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Lizhong Jin &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12=
:36
+0800<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>&quot;<st1:personname u2=
:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname></st1:PersonName> (Pranjal)&qu=
ot;
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pranjal.dutta@alcat=
el-lucent.com</a>&gt;,
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <st1:personname=
 u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:personname></st1:PersonName> &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tnadeau@juniper.net</a>&gt;, <st1:perso=
nname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:personname></st1:PersonName> &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:giheron@cisco.com">giheron@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc: </span></b>Ross Callon &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Hi all,</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>I've reviewed this draft, and have two comme=
nts
that need to be clarifed:</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3D=
Calibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello
adjacency, while LDP keepalive tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean =
it
is not necessary to track the liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute it
with liveness tracking of session? Hello address maybe different with trasp=
ort
address.</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>2. Target hellos are not only used for liven=
ess
track, but also parameter negotiation and updating. When negotiated to
infinite, what time interval would be used to send the updated hello (e.g,
hello with new Optional Parameters in potential
draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello is not reliable, w=
ould
be renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?</span></font><font siz=
e=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Summary of review:</span></font><font size=
=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>a. whether the document is coherent?</span><=
/font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Good description on the motivation, need mor=
e
detail in technical description (e.g, refer to my second comment).</span></=
font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>b. is it useful? </span></font><font size=3D=
1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Yes.</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dbla=
ck
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>d. is technically sound ?</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Need some clarification.</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption=
 ?</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>After clarification, it should be ready for =
WG
adoption.</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Regards</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Lizhong</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Ross Callon &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote 2012/=
07/18
05:49:55:<br>
<br>
&gt; Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; You have been selected as an MPLS Revie=
w
team reviewers for</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri=
><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<=
/span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; Note to authors: You have been CC&#8217=
;d
on this email so that you can know that </span></font><font size=3D1 color=
=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; this review is going on. However, pleas=
e do
not review your own document. </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; Reviews should comment on whether the
document is coherent, is it useful</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblac=
k
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; (ie, is it likely to be actually useful=
 in
operational networks), and is</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; the document technically sound? &nbsp;W=
e
are interested in knowing whether the </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; document is ready to be considered for =
WG
adoption (ie, it doesn&#8217;t have to</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; be perfect at this point, but should be=
 a
good start). </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; Reviews should be sent to the document
authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dbl=
ack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; and CC&#8217;d to the MPLS WG email lis=
t.
If necessary, comments may be sent </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dbla=
ck
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; privately to only the WG chairs. </span=
></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; Are you able to review thisdraft by Aug=
ust
3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IETF </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; meeting in <st1:city u2:st=3D"on"><st1:=
place u2:st=3D"on"><st1:City
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Vancouver</st1:place></st1:city></st1:pl=
ace></st1:City>)?
We understand that this is somewhat short notice and &nbsp;</span></font><f=
ont
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; that you might have something else to d=
o
the week of the IETF, so let us </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; know if you need slightly more time. </=
span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; Thanks, Ross</span></font><font size=3D=
1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; (as MPLS WG chair)</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau&#8217;s e=
mail
address listed in the draft is<br>
&gt; out of date. This email is being CC&#8217;d to his updated address. </=
span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'> _______________________________________________ mpls mailing =
list
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a> <a
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/mpls</a></span><u1:p></u1:p></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</span></div>

</span></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype>
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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 00:39:16 +0800
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.3FP1 HF212|May 23, 2012) at 2012-07-25 00:39:24, Serialize complete at 2012-07-25 00:39:24
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "erosen@cisco.com" <erosen@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 22:29:49 +0530
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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References: Your message of Tue, 24 Jul 2012 04:15:45 +0530. <C584046466ED224CA92C1BC3313B963E09F2162845@INBANSXCHMBSA3.in.alcatel-lucent.com> <3254.1343147800@erosen-linux>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Pls refer my answers inline.

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Rosen [mailto:erosen@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:37 AM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
Cc: erosen@cisco.com; Markus Jork; Giles Heron; Thomas Nadeau; mpls-chairs@=
tools.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

> Although the draft re-uses the Hello negotiation method as in RFC 5036, i=
t
> does define procedures for reduction (section 4).

I think the only thing that is new is the idea of configuring two hold
times, one to be used before the session is established and one (infinite)
to be used after.

[Pranjal] Yes that is correct. It describes RECOMMENDED procedures for hell=
o reduction. [/Pranjal]

> If we read the section 4, it mentions that Hello Reduction starts only
> after a LDP session is ESTABLISHED. There are additional well known
> security methods to secure LDP session (e.g TCP MD5).

The fact that the session is established does not provide authentication or
integrity for the Hellos.  There is no way to know that any particular
received Hello originated from the trusted peer, or that it has not been
modified, or that it is not a replay of an earlier Hello.  That is, the
security problems with Targeted Hellos are not mitigated by the fact that
the LDP session is secured.  So even after the session is established,
spoofed Hellos can be used to trick the two peers into using different hold
times.

[Pranjal] Yes, agreed. That's where the applicability of ldp-crypto-auth co=
mes in. But still we can't provide resilience of spurious attacks from=20
non-trusted sources that may destabilize the authenticated existing hello a=
djacencies. We can definitely insert a full fledged firewall inside a LDP L=
SR so that Utopia prevails but we may not like to do that in all types of i=
mplementations (systems) where cost vs. gain factor is low. The solution is=
 targeted towards providing probabilistically better resilience, no matter =
whether the spoofed packets carry bad UDP payload or Good authenticated pac=
ket etc (take any case of spoofing). [/Pranjal]=20

Bad parameters specified in a received spoofed Hello will eventually get
overwritten by the good parameters specified in the next received authentic
Hello.  Thus the less frequent the authentic Hellos are, the longer it will
take before the bad parameter is overwritten with the good parameter. =20

[Pranjal] I have responded on this to Lizhong's earlier question. IMO, we a=
re probably questioning here more on RFC 5036. There is no limit on hello h=
old time as per RFC 5036. When there is a change in parameter, the change n=
eeds to be reflected to peers with "best effort". Some implementations do t=
oday by sending a set of hellos within shorted intervals (e.g 5) after a=20
parameter change. But what if those 5 hellos are lost (means the hello chan=
nel is unreliable enough to loss of contiguous 5 packets or spurious attack=
s on receiver dropped those packets). If it so happens then perhaps it woul=
d result in loss of hello adjacency. I

[/Pranjal]

> If LDP session transport address is  different from IP addresses used for
> T-LDP hellos then Session Keepalives are not substitute. But if we want t=
o
> use protocols like BFD for fast tracking reachability of T-LDP IPs (there
> are other protocols as well) then Hellos are redundant.

The draft seems to recommend the use of "hello reduction" with infinite hol=
d
time.  If there are situations in which this is not a good idea, the draft
should describe those.

[Pranjal] Yes, we would address the uses cases where precautions are necess=
ary to deploy the solution. [/Pranjal]











From loa@pi.nu  Tue Jul 24 10:06:27 2012
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Working Group,

this working group last call were supposed to end on July 22nd.

However, we have not had one single comment on the draft during
the last call period.

We are therefore extending the wg last call until August 10, 2012.

We have also selected some members of the of the MPLS Review Team
whom we asked to review the draft and respond during the extended
working group last
call period.

/Loa
for the MPLS wG co-charis

On 2012-07-10 15:50, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> this is to start a working group last call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03.
>
> Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> We have done an IPR poll among the authors and on the mpls wg mailing
> list. All the authors has responded that they are not aware any IPR
> claims on this document.
>
> No IPR disclosures has been filed against this document.
>
> This working group last call would normally end July 22, 2012, but
> since we at that time are in the publication cut-off period prior to
> the Vancouver meeting this wg last call ends when the cut-off is
> lifted.
>
> /Loa
> (for the wg co-chairs)
>
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

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From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>, "Lizhong Jin" <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "Giles Heron (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Ref to your other email response:
"Yes, we would address the uses cases where precautions are necessary to de=
ploy the solution"

I assume that you would also add LDPoTE use case amongst these.

Thx.

From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto=
:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 22:08:50 +0530
To: "Syed Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com<mailto:skraza@cisco.com>>=
, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>, "mpl=
s@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, Th=
omas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, "Giles Heron=
 (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Hi Kamran,
                        Please refer inline.

Thanks,
Pranjal

________________________________
From: Kamran Raza (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:31 AM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); Lizhong Jin; mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf=
.org>; Thomas Nadeau; Giles Heron (giheron)
Cc: Ross Callon
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Hi Pranjal,

>> Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP
But BFDoRSVP will be able to detect TE tunnel issues only, but not necessar=
ily LDP's t-hello issues over TE tunnel.
What if T-adj becomes invalid due to LDP config/events [ e.g. Remote node n=
o more accepting t-hellos ] ?

[Pranjal] This is a missing  piece in RFC 5036 which IMO should be addresse=
d separately. Even if we don=92t pursue infinite hold time
as per the draft it is still possible that t-ldp adjacency may become inval=
id for prolonged period when hello hold timers are relaxed
(e.g 180 sec etc). by RFC 5036 there is no upper bound on hello hold time a=
nd large scale deployments (e.g ~ 10K T-LDP peers) tend
to use relaxed hold time.


>> Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp de=
ployments?
No, and I also did not claim that you did :-)
I  am just commenting that such procedure may cause issues  with T-LDP over=
 fwding interfaces.

Rgds.


From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto=
:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:40:31 +0530
To: "Syed Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com<mailto:skraza@cisco.com>>=
, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>, "mpl=
s@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, Th=
omas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, "Giles Heron=
 (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Pls. refer my answers inline.

________________________________
From: Kamran Raza (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:52 AM
To: Lizhong Jin; Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf=
.org>; Thomas Nadeau; Giles Heron (giheron)
Cc: Ross Callon
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Dear authors,

I've couple of comments:

1) I also have a concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:

>> Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, >> or substitute it with liveness tracking =
of session?

The reduction of T-LDP hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies rel=
ated to forwarding interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel ]. LDP requires an =
adjacency to be **live** on an interface before MPLS [labeled] forwarding c=
an be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we are using LDP-enabled =
TE tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically we install unlabeled (LDP=
) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-adj over TE tunnel goes do=
wn. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to track the liveness of the =
t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP LSP over TE tunnel in the=
 forwarding even when there are issues with this t-adj.

[Pranjal] Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP. I mentio=
ned that the hello reduction procedures can be deployed case by case and
Is not mandatory. Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST =
for LdpoRsvp deployments? There are several cases in access,. Aggregation
Networks where LdpoRsvp is not deployed.

2) Re: "DoS attacks" as motivation for the tldp-reduc:
Your document states that:

"Unlike TCP sessions it is not always possible to

   provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos."

Given new procedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e. draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hel=
lo-crypto-auth),
the above does not seem valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument t=
o support tldp-reduc, IMO.

[Pranjal] Not sure what is the point you are raising here. What about DoS a=
ttacks in networks from untrusted peers? How would you provide resilience
to existing trusted peer adjacencies (that is using ldp-crypto-auth) from s=
poofed attacks (without special techniques)? The draft does not claim  as a
solution against DoS attacks but probabilistically better resilience.

Rgds,

-- Kamran

From: Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12:36 +0800
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:p=
ranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>, <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, T=
homas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, Giles Heron=
 <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3


Hi all,
I've reviewed this draft, and have two comments that need to be clarifed:
1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of helloadjacency, while LDP keepalive =
tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track th=
e liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute itwith liveness tracking of se=
ssion? Hello address maybe different with trasport address.
2. Target hellos are not only used for liveness track, but also parameter n=
egotiation and updating. When negotiated to infinite, what time interval wo=
uld be used to send the updated hello (e.g, hello with new Optional Paramet=
ers in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello i=
s not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?

Summary of review:
a. whether the document is coherent?
Good description on the motivation, need more detail in technical descripti=
on (e.g, refer to my second comment).

b. is it useful?
Yes.

d. is technically sound ?
Need some clarification.

e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption ?
After clarification, it should be ready for WG adoption.

Regards
Lizhong


Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>> wrote 2012/07=
/18 05:49:55:

> Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;
>
> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
>
> Note to authors: You have been CC=92d on this email so that you can know =
that
> this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.
>
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
> (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
> the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the
> document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=92t have=
 to
> be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
>
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretar=
y,
> and CC=92d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
> privately to only the WG chairs.
>
> Are you able to review thisdraft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IE=
TF
> meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice a=
nd
> that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us
> know if you need slightly more time.
>
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>
> PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau=92s email address listed in the draft is
> out of date. This email is being CC=92d to his updated address.
>   _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@=
ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
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</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium;=
 "><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium;=
 ">Ref to your other email response:</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium;=
 ">&quot;Yes, we would address the uses cases where precautions are necessa=
ry to deploy the solution&quot;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium;=
 "><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium;=
 ">I assume that you would also add LDPoTE use case amongst these. &nbsp;&n=
bsp;</span></div>
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Consolas"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Consolas">Thx.</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; ">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranj=
al)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pranjal.d=
utta@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 22:08:50 &#4=
3;0530<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;Syed Kamran Raza (skraza)=
&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">skraza@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Li=
zhong Jin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com=
.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Thomas Nadeau =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tnadeau@juniper.net</a>&gt;, &qu=
ot;Giles Heron (giheron)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giheron@cisco.com">gih=
eron@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Ross Callon &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review =
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
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<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
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<![endif]--><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:offic=
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" style=3D"word-wrap: break-=
word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<div class=3D"Section1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Hi Kamran,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please refer inline.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Pranjal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font=
 size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" tabindex=3D"-1">
</span></font></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2=
" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Kamran Raza</st1:personname> (skraza) [<a href=
=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">mailto:skraza@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 24, 2012=
 9:31 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <st1:personname w:st=3D"=
on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname> (Pranjal); Lizhong Jin;
<st1:personname w:st=3D"on"><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org<=
/a></st1:personname>;
<st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:personname>; <st1:personname=
 w:st=3D"on">
Giles Heron</st1:personname> (giheron)<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Ross Callon<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:navy">Hi Pranjal,</span></font></span><font size=3D"1" color=3D"bla=
ck" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;col=
or:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:navy">&gt;&gt; Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over R=
SVP</span></font></span><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><=
span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">But BFDoRSVP =
will be able to detect TE tunnel issues only, but not necessarily LDP's t-h=
ello issues over TE tunnel.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">What if T-adj=
 becomes invalid due to LDP config/events [ e.g. Remote node no more accept=
ing t-hellos ] ?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">[Pranjal] This is a missing&nbsp; piec=
e in RFC 5036 which IMO should be addressed separately. Even if we don=92t =
pursue infinite hold time
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">as per the draft it is still possible =
that t-ldp adjacency may become invalid for prolonged period when hello hol=
d timers are relaxed
<br>
(e.g 180 sec etc). by RFC 5036 there is no upper bound on hello hold time a=
nd large scale deployments (e.g ~ 10K T-LDP peers) tend
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">to use relaxed hold time.<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:navy">&gt;&gt; Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is =
MUST for LdpoRsvp deployments?&nbsp;</span></font></span><font size=3D"1" c=
olor=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:=
Calibri;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">No, and I als=
o did not claim that you did :-)&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">I &nbsp;am ju=
st commenting that such procedure may cause issues &nbsp;with T-LDP over fw=
ding interfaces.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Rgds.<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weigh=
t:bold"><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">From:
</span></span></font></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">&quot;<st1=
:personname w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname> (Pranjal)&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pranjal.dutta@alcate=
l-lucent.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span></b>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:40=
:31 &#43;0530<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span></b>&quot;Syed <st1:personna=
me w:st=3D"on">
Kamran Raza</st1:personname> (skraza)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:skraza@ci=
sco.com">skraza@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Lizhong Jin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhon=
g.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:m=
pls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">=
mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
<st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:personname> &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tnadeau@juniper.net</a>&gt;, &quot;<st1:personna=
me w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:personname> (giheron)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:giheron@cisco.com">giheron@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span></b>Ross Callon &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></b>RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags=
" name=3D"City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:=
office:smarttags" name=3D"place"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schem=
as-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns=3D"http://www=
.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nb=
sp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Pls. refer my answers inline.<u1:p></u=
1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><font=
 color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font=
 size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.0pt;color:black">
<hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" tabindex=3D"-1">
</span></font></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Tahoma">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:=
bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Tahom=
a"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black">
<st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Kamran Raza</st1:p=
ersonname></st1:personname> (skraza) [<a href=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">m=
ailto:skraza@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 24, 2012=
 8:52 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Lizhong Jin; <st1:person=
name u2:st=3D"on">
<st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname></st1:personna=
me> (Pranjal);
<st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org=
</a></st1:personname>;
<st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1=
:personname></st1:personname>;
<st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:p=
ersonname></st1:personname> (giheron)<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Ross Callon<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><u1:p></u1:p>=
<font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New R=
oman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Dear authors,=
<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black=
"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;<=
/u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">I've couple o=
f comments:<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"=
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;<=
/u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">1) I also hav=
e a concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:</span></font><font c=
olor=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;<=
/u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1E39F6">&gt;&gt; =
Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive tr=
acks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is
 not necessary to track the liveness of hello adjacency, &gt;&gt; or substi=
tute it with liveness tracking of session?&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D=
"1" color=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;color:black">
</span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u1:p></u1:=
p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;<=
/u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">The reduction=
 of T-LDP hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies related to forwa=
rding interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel
 ]. LDP requires an adjacency to be **<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">l=
ive**</span></b>&nbsp;on an interface before MPLS [labeled] forwarding can =
be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we are using LDP-enabled TE =
tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically
 we install unlabeled (LDP) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-=
adj over TE tunnel goes down. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to =
track the liveness of the t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP=
 LSP over TE tunnel in the forwarding
 even when there are issues with this t-adj.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><fon=
t color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><font=
 color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">[Pranjal] Such liveliness can be track=
ed by running BFD over RSVP. I mentioned that the hello reduction procedure=
s can be deployed case
 by case and<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Is not mandatory. Did we mention in th=
e draft that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp deployments? There are se=
veral cases in access,.
 Aggregation<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Networks where LdpoRsvp is not deploye=
d.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;<=
/u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">2) Re: &quot;=
DoS attacks&quot; as motivation for the tldp-reduc:</span></font><font colo=
r=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Your document=
 states that:</span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black=
"><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New R=
oman"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span=
></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3D"Courier">=
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#1E39F6">&quot;</s=
pan></font><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1e39=
f6" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size: 9.5pt; color: rgb(30, 57=
, 246); font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Unlike
 TCP sessions it is not always possible to</span></font></span><font color=
=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>
</div>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1e39f6" =
face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;color:#1E39F6">&nbsp;&n=
bsp; provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos.&quot;</span></font><=
font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></=
span></font></pre>
<font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 9.5pt; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><br clear=
=3D"all" style=3D"page-break-before:
always">
</span></font>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Given new pro=
cedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e.&nbsp;</span></font><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"black" face=3D"Consolas"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">draft-zheng-mpls-l=
dp-hello-crypto-auth),</span></font></span><font color=3D"black"><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">the above doe=
s not seem valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument to support tld=
p-reduc, IMO.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><font=
 color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">[Pranjal] Not sure what is the point y=
ou are raising here. What about DoS attacks in networks from untrusted peer=
s? How would you provide
 resilience<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"=
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">to existing trusted peer adjacencies (=
that is using ldp-crypto-auth) from spoofed attacks (without special techni=
ques)? The draft does
 not claim&nbsp; as a <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><spa=
n style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">solution against DoS attacks but proba=
bilistically better resilience.
<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black=
"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New R=
oman"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span=
></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Rgds,</span><=
/font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u1:p></u1:p><o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;<=
/u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">-- Kamran</sp=
an></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u1:p></u1:p><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;<=
/u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weigh=
t:bold">From:
</span></font></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Lizhong Jin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
izhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span></b>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12=
:36 &#43;0800<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span></b>&quot;<st1:personname u2=
:st=3D"on"><st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname></s=
t1:personname> (Pranjal)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-=
lucent.com">pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
<st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1=
:personname></st1:personname> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tn=
adeau@juniper.net</a>&gt;,
<st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:personname w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:p=
ersonname></st1:personname> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giheron@cisco.com">gihero=
n@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span></b>Ross Callon &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></b>Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<u1:p></u1:p></span></font>=
<font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u1:p>&nbsp;<=
/u1:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">Hi all,</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=
=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cali=
bri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">I've reviewed this draft, and have two comme=
nts that need to be clarifed:</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black"=
 face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:=
black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello=
adjacency, while LDP keepalive tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean =
it is not necessary
 to track the liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute itwith liveness tr=
acking of session? Hello address maybe different with trasport address.</sp=
an></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"=
font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">2. Target hellos are not only used for liven=
ess track, but also parameter negotiation and updating. When negotiated to =
infinite, what time
 interval would be used to send the updated hello (e.g, hello with new Opti=
onal Parameters in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message?=
 UDP hello is not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hello hold =
time first?</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">Summary of review:</span></font><font size=
=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font=
-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">a. whether the document is coherent?</span><=
/font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font=
-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">Good description on the motivation, need mor=
e detail in technical description (e.g, refer to my second comment).</span>=
</font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">b. is it useful?
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">Yes.</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"=
black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;=
color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">d. is technically sound ?</span></font><font=
 size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt=
;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">Need some clarification.</span></font><font =
size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;=
font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption=
 ?</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">After clarification, it should be ready for =
WG adoption.</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"=
><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">Regards</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=
=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cali=
bri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">Lizhong</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=
=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cali=
bri;color:black"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">Ross Callon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@ju=
niper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote 2012/07/18 05:49:55:<br>
<br>
&gt; Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black"=
 face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:=
black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:C=
alibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; You have been selected as an MPLS Revie=
w team reviewers for</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"=
Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><b=
r>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<=
/span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:C=
alibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; Note to authors: You have been CC=92d o=
n this email so that you can know that
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; this review is going on. However, pleas=
e do not review your own document.
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:C=
alibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; Reviews should comment on whether the d=
ocument is coherent, is it useful</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"bl=
ack" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;co=
lor:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; (ie, is it likely to be actually useful=
 in operational networks), and is</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"bl=
ack" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;co=
lor:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; the document technically sound? &nbsp;W=
e are interested in knowing whether the
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; document is ready to be considered for =
WG adoption (ie, it doesn=92t have to</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=
=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cali=
bri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; be perfect at this point, but should be=
 a good start).
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:C=
alibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; Reviews should be sent to the document =
authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D=
"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri=
;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; and CC=92d to the MPLS WG email list. I=
f necessary, comments may be sent
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; privately to only the WG chairs.
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:C=
alibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; Are you able to review thisdraft by Aug=
ust 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IETF
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; meeting in
<st1:city u2:st=3D"on"><st1:place u2:st=3D"on"><st1:city w:st=3D"on"><st1:p=
lace w:st=3D"on">Vancouver</st1:place></st1:city></st1:place></st1:city>)? =
We understand that this is somewhat short notice and &nbsp;</span></font><f=
ont size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.=
5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; that you might have something else to d=
o the week of the IETF, so let us
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; know if you need slightly more time.
</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:C=
alibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; Thanks, Ross</span></font><font size=3D=
"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; (as MPLS WG chair)</span></font><font s=
ize=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:C=
alibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau=92s email=
 address listed in the draft is<br>
&gt; out of date. This email is being CC=92d to his updated address. </span=
></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"1" co=
lor=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:C=
alibri;
color:black"> _______________________________________________
 mpls mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a> <a hr=
ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a></span><u1:p></u1:p></font><f=
ont color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></div>
</div>
</o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CC344ED51021Cskrazaciscocom_--

From pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com  Tue Jul 24 10:13:50 2012
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From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "Giles Heron (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 22:43:31 +0530
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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References: <C584046466ED224CA92C1BC3313B963E09F2162AC7@INBANSXCHMBSA3.in.alcatel-lucent.com> <CC344ED5.1021C%skraza@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
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Yes.

________________________________
From: Kamran Raza (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:11 AM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); Lizhong Jin; mpls@ietf.org; Thomas Nadeau; =
Giles Heron (giheron)
Cc: Ross Callon
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3


Ref to your other email response:
"Yes, we would address the uses cases where precautions are necessary to de=
ploy the solution"

I assume that you would also add LDPoTE use case amongst these.

Thx.

From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto=
:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 22:08:50 +0530
To: "Syed Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com<mailto:skraza@cisco.com>>=
, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>, "mpl=
s@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, Th=
omas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, "Giles Heron=
 (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Hi Kamran,
                        Please refer inline.

Thanks,
Pranjal

________________________________
From: Kamran Raza (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:31 AM
To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); Lizhong Jin; mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf=
.org>; Thomas Nadeau; Giles Heron (giheron)
Cc: Ross Callon
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Hi Pranjal,

>> Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP
But BFDoRSVP will be able to detect TE tunnel issues only, but not necessar=
ily LDP's t-hello issues over TE tunnel.
What if T-adj becomes invalid due to LDP config/events [ e.g. Remote node n=
o more accepting t-hellos ] ?

[Pranjal] This is a missing  piece in RFC 5036 which IMO should be addresse=
d separately. Even if we don't pursue infinite hold time
as per the draft it is still possible that t-ldp adjacency may become inval=
id for prolonged period when hello hold timers are relaxed
(e.g 180 sec etc). by RFC 5036 there is no upper bound on hello hold time a=
nd large scale deployments (e.g ~ 10K T-LDP peers) tend
to use relaxed hold time.


>> Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp de=
ployments?
No, and I also did not claim that you did :-)
I  am just commenting that such procedure may cause issues  with T-LDP over=
 fwding interfaces.

Rgds.


From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto=
:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:40:31 +0530
To: "Syed Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com<mailto:skraza@cisco.com>>=
, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>, "mpl=
s@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, Th=
omas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, "Giles Heron=
 (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Pls. refer my answers inline.

________________________________
From: Kamran Raza (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:52 AM
To: Lizhong Jin; Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf=
.org>; Thomas Nadeau; Giles Heron (giheron)
Cc: Ross Callon
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3

Dear authors,

I've couple of comments:

1) I also have a concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:

>> Target Hello tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive=
 tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track t=
he liveness of hello adjacency, >> or substitute it with liveness tracking =
of session?

The reduction of T-LDP hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies rel=
ated to forwarding interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel ]. LDP requires an =
adjacency to be **live** on an interface before MPLS [labeled] forwarding c=
an be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we are using LDP-enabled =
TE tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically we install unlabeled (LDP=
) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-adj over TE tunnel goes do=
wn. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to track the liveness of the =
t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP LSP over TE tunnel in the=
 forwarding even when there are issues with this t-adj.

[Pranjal] Such liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP. I mentio=
ned that the hello reduction procedures can be deployed case by case and
Is not mandatory. Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST =
for LdpoRsvp deployments? There are several cases in access,. Aggregation
Networks where LdpoRsvp is not deployed.

2) Re: "DoS attacks" as motivation for the tldp-reduc:
Your document states that:

"Unlike TCP sessions it is not always possible to

   provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos."

Given new procedures/draft on LDP hello auth (i.e. draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hel=
lo-crypto-auth),
the above does not seem valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument t=
o support tldp-reduc, IMO.

[Pranjal] Not sure what is the point you are raising here. What about DoS a=
ttacks in networks from untrusted peers? How would you provide resilience
to existing trusted peer adjacencies (that is using ldp-crypto-auth) from s=
poofed attacks (without special techniques)? The draft does not claim  as a
solution against DoS attacks but probabilistically better resilience.

Rgds,

-- Kamran

From: Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12:36 +0800
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:p=
ranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>>, <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, T=
homas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net<mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net>>, Giles Heron=
 <giheron@cisco.com<mailto:giheron@cisco.com>>
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-0=
3


Hi all,
I've reviewed this draft, and have two comments that need to be clarifed:
1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of helloadjacency, while LDP keepalive =
tracks the liveness of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track th=
e liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute itwith liveness tracking of se=
ssion? Hello address maybe different with trasport address.
2. Target hellos are not only used for liveness track, but also parameter n=
egotiation and updating. When negotiated to infinite, what time interval wo=
uld be used to send the updated hello (e.g, hello with new Optional Paramet=
ers in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capability) message? UDP hello i=
s not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hello hold time first?

Summary of review:
a. whether the document is coherent?
Good description on the motivation, need more detail in technical descripti=
on (e.g, refer to my second comment).

b. is it useful?
Yes.

d. is technically sound ?
Need some clarification.

e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption ?
After clarification, it should be ready for WG adoption.

Regards
Lizhong


Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>> wrote 2012/07=
/18 05:49:55:

> Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;
>
> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03
>
> Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know th=
at
> this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.
>
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
> (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
> the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the
> document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have t=
o
> be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
>
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretar=
y,
> and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
> privately to only the WG chairs.
>
> Are you able to review thisdraft by August 3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IE=
TF
> meeting in Vancouver)? We understand that this is somewhat short notice a=
nd
> that you might have something else to do the week of the IETF, so let us
> know if you need slightly more time.
>
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>
> PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau's email address listed in the draft is
> out of date. This email is being CC'd to his updated address.
>   _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@=
ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue style=3D'word-wrap: break-word;=
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Yes. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:Per=
sonName
w:st=3D"on">Kamran Raza</st1:PersonName> (skraza) [mailto:skraza@cisco.com]=
 <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 24, 2012=
 10:11
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"=
on">Dutta,
 Pranjal K</st1:PersonName> (Pranjal); Lizhong Jin; <st1:PersonName w:st=3D=
"on">mpls@ietf.org</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:PersonName> (giheron)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Ross Callon<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D=
'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D4 color=3D=
black
face=3DConsolas><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:=
black'>Ref
to your other email response:</span></font></span><font size=3D1 color=3Dbl=
ack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D4 color=3D=
black
face=3DConsolas><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:=
black'>&quot;Yes,
we would address the uses cases where precautions are necessary to deploy t=
he
solution&quot;</span></font></span><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCali=
bri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D4 color=3D=
black
face=3DConsolas><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:=
black'>I
assume that you would also add LDPoTE use case amongst these. &nbsp;&nbsp;<=
/span></font></span><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DConsolas><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'>Thx.</span></fo=
nt><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold'=
><span
id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">From: </span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bl=
ack'>&quot;<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:PersonName> (Pranjal)&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pranjal.dutta@alcatel-luce=
nt.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 22:08=
:50
+0530<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>&quot;Syed <st1:PersonNa=
me
w:st=3D"on">Kamran Raza</st1:PersonName> (skraza)&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">skraza@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Lizhong Jin &lt;=
<a
href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;, &quo=
t;<a
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <st1:PersonName w:st=
=3D"on">Thomas
 Nadeau</st1:PersonName> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tnadeau=
@juniper.net</a>&gt;,
&quot;<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:PersonName> (giheron)&qu=
ot;
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giheron@cisco.com">giheron@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc: </span></b>Ross Callon &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

</div>

<u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags=
" name=3D"City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:=
office:smarttags" name=3D"place"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schem=
as-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName">

<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<div link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue style=3D'word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-m=
ode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi Kamran,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><=
font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Please refer
inline.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'>=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Pranjal<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;colo=
r:black'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>=
From:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:Tahoma;
color:black'> <st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Kamr=
an Raza</st1:personname></st1:PersonName>
(skraza) [<a href=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">mailto:skraza@cisco.com</a>] =
<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 24, 2012=
 9:31
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:personname u2:st=3D=
"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname></st1:PersonName> (Pranjal); L=
izhong
Jin; <st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@iet=
f.org</a></st1:personname>;
<st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1=
:personname></st1:PersonName>;
<st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:p=
ersonname></st1:PersonName>
(giheron)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Ross Callon<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D1 color=3D=
navy
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>H=
i
Pranjal,</span></font></span><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black=
'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D1 color=3D=
navy
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&=
gt;&gt; Such
liveliness can be tracked by running BFD over RSVP</span></font></span><fon=
t
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>But BFDoRSVP will=
 be
able to detect TE tunnel issues only, but not necessarily LDP's t-hello iss=
ues
over TE tunnel.&nbsp;<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>What if T-adj bec=
omes
invalid due to LDP config/events [ e.g. Remote node no more accepting t-hel=
los
] ?<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:blac=
k'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>[Pranjal] This is a missing&nbsp; piec=
e in
RFC 5036 which IMO should be addressed separately. Even if we don&#8217;t p=
ursue
infinite hold time <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>as per the draft it is still possible =
that
t-ldp adjacency may become invalid for prolonged period when hello hold tim=
ers
are relaxed <br>
(e.g 180 sec etc). by RFC 5036 there is no upper bound on hello hold time a=
nd
large scale deployments (e.g ~ 10K T-LDP peers) tend <u1:p></u1:p></span></=
font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>to use relaxed hold time.<u1:p></u1:p>=
</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D1 color=3D=
navy
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&=
gt;&gt;
Did we mention in the draft that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp
deployments?&nbsp;</span></font></span><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>No, and I also di=
d not
claim that you did :-)&nbsp;<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack>=
<span
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>I &nbsp;am just
commenting that such procedure may cause issues &nbsp;with T-LDP over fwdin=
g
interfaces.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'co=
lor:
black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Rgds.<u1:p></u1:p=
></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold'=
><span
id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">From: </span></span></font></b><font size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Ca=
libri;
color:black'>&quot;<st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on"=
>Dutta,
 Pranjal K</st1:personname></st1:PersonName> (Pranjal)&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pranjal.dutta@alcatel-luce=
nt.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:40=
:31
+0530<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>&quot;Syed <st1:personna=
me u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Kamran Raza</st1:personname></st1:PersonName> (skraza)&quot; &l=
t;<a
href=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">skraza@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Lizhong Jin &lt;=
<a
href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;, &quo=
t;<a
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <st1:personname u2:st=
=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:personname></st1:PersonName> &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tnadeau@juniper.net</a>&gt;, &quot;<st1=
:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:personname></st1:PersonName> (giheron)&quot; &=
lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:giheron@cisco.com">giheron@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc: </span></b>Ross Callon &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<u3:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags=
" name=3D"City"><u3:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:=
office:smarttags" name=3D"place"><u3:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schem=
as-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName">

<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<div link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue style=3D'word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-m=
ode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pls. refer my answers inline.<u3:p></u=
3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;colo=
r:black'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>=
From:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:Tahoma;
color:black'> <st1:personname u4:st=3D"on"><st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st=
1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Kamran Raza</st1:personname></st1:personname></st1:PersonName>
(skraza) [<a href=3D"mailto:skraza@cisco.com">mailto:skraza@cisco.com</a>] =
<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 24, 2012=
 8:52
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Lizhong Jin; <st1:person=
name u4:st=3D"on"><st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname></st1:personname></st1:PersonN=
ame>
(Pranjal); <st1:personname u4:st=3D"on"><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mp=
ls@ietf.org</a></st1:personname>;
<st1:personname u4:st=3D"on"><st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName w=
:st=3D"on">Thomas
 Nadeau</st1:personname></st1:personname></st1:PersonName>; <st1:personname=
 u4:st=3D"on"><st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:personname></st1:personname></st1:PersonName> =
(giheron)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Ross Callon<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03</span></font><u3:p></u3:p><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Dear authors,<u3:=
p></u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>I've couple of co=
mments:<u3:p></u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>1) I also have a
concern along the same lines as stated by Lizhong:</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u3:p></u3:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1E39F6'>&gt;&gt; Target=
 Hello
tracks the liveness of hello adjacency, while LDP keepalive tracks the live=
ness
of session. Do you mean it is not necessary to track the liveness of hello
adjacency, &gt;&gt; or substitute it with liveness tracking of session?&nbs=
p;</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;color:black'> </span>=
</font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u3:p></u3:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>The reduction of =
T-LDP
hellos may cause issues for targeted-adjacencies related to forwarding
interfaces [ e.g. LDP over TE tunnel ]. LDP requires an adjacency to be **<=
b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>live**</span></b>&nbsp;on an interface before MP=
LS
[labeled] forwarding can be setup on the given forwarding interface. If we =
are
using LDP-enabled TE tunnel as forwarding interface, then typically we inst=
all
unlabeled (LDP) forwarding over TE tunnel interface if LDP's t-adj over TE
tunnel goes down. With T-LDP reduction, we lose the ability to track the
liveness of the t-adj and will be incorrectly using [labeled] LDP LSP over =
TE
tunnel in the forwarding even when there are issues with this t-adj.<u3:p><=
/u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[Pranjal] Such liveliness can be track=
ed
by running BFD over RSVP. I mentioned that the hello reduction procedures c=
an
be deployed case by case and<u3:p></u3:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack>=
<span
style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is not mandatory. Did we mention in th=
e
draft that hello reduction is MUST for LdpoRsvp deployments? There are seve=
ral
cases in access,. Aggregation<u3:p></u3:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack=
><span
style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Networks where LdpoRsvp is not deploye=
d.<u3:p></u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>2) Re: &quot;DoS
attacks&quot; as motivation for the tldp-reduc:</span></font><font color=3D=
black><span
style=3D'color:black'><u3:p></u3:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Your document sta=
tes
that:</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u3:p></=
u3:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:p></span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#1E39F6'>&quot;</span></=
font><span
class=3Dapple-style-span><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1e39f6" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1E39F6'>Unlike TC=
P
sessions it is not always possible to</span></font></span><font color=3Dbla=
ck><span
style=3D'color:black'><u3:p></u3:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

</div>

<pre style=3D'page-break-before:always'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1e39f6"
face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;color:#1E39F6'>&nbsp;&n=
bsp; provide per peer protection for UDP based hellos.&quot;</span></font><=
font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u3:p></u3:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></=
o:p></span></font></pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:9.=
5pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'><br clear=3Dall style=3D'page-br=
eak-before:
always'>
</span></font>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Given new procedu=
res/draft
on LDP hello auth (i.e.&nbsp;</span></font><span class=3Dapple-style-span><=
font
size=3D4 color=3Dblack face=3DConsolas><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font=
-family:
Consolas;color:black'>draft-zheng-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth),</span></font=
></span><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u3:p></u3:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>the above does no=
t seem
valid anymore, and hence is not a strong argument to support tldp-reduc, IM=
O.<u3:p></u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[Pranjal] Not sure what is the point y=
ou
are raising here. What about DoS attacks in networks from untrusted peers? =
How
would you provide resilience<u3:p></u3:p></span></font><font color=3Dblack>=
<span
style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>to existing trusted peer adjacencies (=
that
is using ldp-crypto-auth) from spoofed attacks (without special techniques)=
?
The draft does not claim&nbsp; as a <u3:p></u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>solution against DoS attacks but
probabilistically better resilience. <u3:p></u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:p></span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Rgds,</span></fon=
t><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u3:p></u3:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>-- Kamran</span><=
/font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u3:p></u3:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold'=
>From:
</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Lizhong Jin &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12=
:36
+0800<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>&quot;<st1:personname u4=
:st=3D"on"><st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Dutta, Pranjal K</st1:personname></st1:personname></st1:PersonN=
ame>
(Pranjal)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com">pra=
njal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;,
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <st1:personname=
 u4:st=3D"on"><st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Thomas Nadeau</st1:personname></st1:personname></st1:PersonName=
> &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@juniper.net">tnadeau@juniper.net</a>&gt;, <st1:perso=
nname u4:st=3D"on"><st1:personname u2:st=3D"on"><st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Giles Heron</st1:personname></st1:personname></st1:PersonName> =
&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:giheron@cisco.com">giheron@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc: </span></b>Ross Callon &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT =
review
of draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<u3:p></u3:p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><u3:p>&nbsp;</u3:=
p></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Hi all,</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>I've reviewed this draft, and have two comme=
nts
that need to be clarifed:</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3D=
Calibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>1. Target Hello tracks the liveness of
helloadjacency, while LDP keepalive tracks the liveness of session. Do you =
mean
it is not necessary to track the liveness of hello adjacency, or substitute
itwith liveness tracking of session? Hello address maybe different with
trasport address.</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri>=
<span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>2. Target hellos are not only used for liven=
ess
track, but also parameter negotiation and updating. When negotiated to
infinite, what time interval would be used to send the updated hello (e.g, =
hello
with new Optional Parameters in potential draft-pdutta-mpls-ldp-adj-capabil=
ity)
message? UDP hello is not reliable, would be renegotiated to configured hel=
lo
hold time first?</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><=
span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Summary of review:</span></font><font size=
=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>a. whether the document is coherent?</span><=
/font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Good description on the motivation, need mor=
e
detail in technical description (e.g, refer to my second comment).</span></=
font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>b. is it useful? </span></font><font size=3D=
1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Yes.</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dbla=
ck
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>d. is technically sound ?</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Need some clarification.</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>e. is ready to be considered for WG adoption=
 ?</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>After clarification, it should be ready for =
WG
adoption.</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Regards</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Lizhong</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Ross Callon &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote 2012/=
07/18
05:49:55:<br>
<br>
&gt; Markus, Lizhong, Thomas;</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; You have been selected as an MPLS Revie=
w team
reviewers for</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; draft-pdutta-mpls-tldp-hello-reduce-03<=
/span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; Note to authors: You have been CC&#8217=
;d on this
email so that you can know that </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; this review is going on. However, pleas=
e do
not review your own document. </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; Reviews should comment on whether the
document is coherent, is it useful</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblac=
k
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; (ie, is it likely to be actually useful=
 in
operational networks), and is</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; the document technically sound? &nbsp;W=
e
are interested in knowing whether the </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; document is ready to be considered for =
WG
adoption (ie, it doesn&#8217;t have to</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D=
black
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; be perfect at this point, but should be=
 a
good start). </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; Reviews should be sent to the document
authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dbl=
ack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; and CC&#8217;d to the MPLS WG email lis=
t. If
necessary, comments may be sent </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; privately to only the WG chairs. </span=
></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; Are you able to review thisdraft by Aug=
ust
3, 2012 (ie, the end of the IETF </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; meeting in <st1:city u4:st=3D"on"><st1:=
place u4:st=3D"on"><st1:city u2:st=3D"on"><st1:place u2:st=3D"on"><st1:City
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Vancouver</st1:place></st1:city></st1:pl=
ace></st1:city></st1:place></st1:City>)?
We understand that this is somewhat short notice and &nbsp;</span></font><f=
ont
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; that you might have something else to d=
o
the week of the IETF, so let us </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; know if you need slightly more time. </=
span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; Thanks, Ross</span></font><font size=3D=
1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; (as MPLS WG chair)</span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; PS: I noticed that Tom Nadeau&#8217;s e=
mail
address listed in the draft is<br>
&gt; out of date. This email is being CC&#8217;d to his updated address. </=
span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&gt; &nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;
color:black'> _______________________________________________ mpls mailing =
list
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a> <a
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/mpls</a></span><u3:p></u3:p></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</span></u3:smarttagtype></u3:smarttagtype></u3:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagt=
ype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></span>
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From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>
To: "lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn" <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, "kebo.liu@nsn.com" <kebo.liu@nsn.com>, "sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com" <sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-jin-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery
Thread-Index: Ac1gTuX8cAYk0r9KSwWTm/ABvnalDQJh4mcA
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:56:49 +0000
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-jin-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery
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Hello authors/chairs,


As MPLS-RT process, I've reviewed the document. Please see below summary an=
d details of my review:



Summary of review

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

a. is the document coherent?

There are few areas which need more work / clarification.


b. is it useful?

Yes.


c. is technically sound ?

Need some more details and clarification on both LDP and BGP sections (item=
s listed below under "Detailed comments").


d. is ready to be considered for WG adoption ?

IMO, the authors need to address/close the main comments [ see below ], and=
 publish next rev before WG adoption call.



Detailed comments:

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



1- The document proposed "leaf discovery" procedures. However, it is not cl=
ear to a reader about exactly what's being discovered:

Leaf address ? Leaf attributes/capabilities ? [ looking at the later sectio=
ns, one deduces that it is just the leaf node address ].


2- Similar to #1 above:

   The document refers to "leaf node information" at several places without=
 elaborating more about it.

   What exactly is this info ? is this just the sender LSR Id ? or is it en=
coded in opaque value of FEC ?


For #1 and #2, need to clarify exactly what does "leaf discovery" and "leaf=
 node information" means in terms of contents.


3- The document states that leaf discovery is useful for both "root initiat=
ed" and "leaf initiated" applications.

Can you please specify/elaborate more on a use case for leaf discovery whic=
h benefits an "leaf initiated" app , and how ?

[ section 2 is not very clear to me for leaf initiated case ] . Moreover, l=
ater section 4 on "Leaf discovery" only talks about 'root initiated apps.



4- Although document's title/other text suggest applicability to both p2mp/=
mp2mp, it is not made clear in specific sections

  if procedure listed in those sections are just for p2mp or both for p2mp/=
mp2mp ? Moreover, need to clarify if there are any

differences in these procedures.


5- LDP capability:

   The document section 4.1 on T-LDP suggests using/sharing the existing mL=
DP "P2MP" capability [base mLDP RFC 6388].

   I've few comments in this regards:


   i) The document claims to address both p2mp/mp2mp cases so why "P2MP" on=
ly capability is negotiated here, whereas mLDP negotiates separate p2mp and=
 mp2mp capabilities ?

   ii) I am not sure if piggybacking on existing mLDP capabilities is right=
 thing .. it should define its own LDP capability.


6- Use of Label messages:

   Firstly, this section 4.1 is very thin on LDP protocol detail. Need more=
 content.



   The document section 4.1 specifies use of LDP Label Mapping and Withdraw=
 messages (with Imp-Null label) to indicate leaf join/leave.

   IMO, this is not a good idea to use LDP label messages to convey this in=
fo for following reasons:

    i) use of imp-null label in the message to mean something special may p=
ose problems if in future imp-null is to be used by any application for oth=
er reasons.

    ii) you are making presence of "Label TLV" mandatory in your label-wdw =
messages =96 which is contrary to LDP spec RFC 5036 which specifies "Label =
TLV" as an optional param. If you need to enforce this, this is an "update"=
 to RFC 5036.

    iii) If leaf and root are directly connected, there will be two set of =
Label mapping/wdw messages exchanged =96 one for MP LSP and other for Leaf-=
Discovery. These different set carrying "same" FEC but potentially differen=
t "labels" will be potentially confusing.

    iv) As per my comment # 2,  what/how would receiver extract leaf node i=
nfo from the rcvd Label-mapping msg. This needs to be clarified.



Considering above points, the better solution is to use LDP Notification wi=
th MP Status =97 I.e. extend/use "MP Status" notification to convey leaf jo=
in/leave. [ Note : a MP Status Notification msg contains both the FEC and t=
he Status code ]. If you agree with the use of LDP MP Status, then you shou=
ld define new/separate LDP capability for this extension.


7- Leaf address:

   Refer to section 4.2.1, the "leaf node" information carried in BGP is "L=
eaf node address". Couple of comments:

    i) Similar information is needed under LDP section.

    Ii) This document is hardcoding address to an IP type, which is not cor=
rect. If mLDP root address is generic enough, why define

        mLDP leaf address as "IP" specific. You should define the leaf addr=
ess in the same way as root address =97 I.e.

       [ Address Family, Address ] where Address and its length is dictated=
 by the Addr-Family. Please note that your existing definition will NOT wor=
k for other address families =96 e.g. For "MT mLDP" (draft-iwijnand-mpls-ml=
dp-multi-topology-02), the address is in the scope of a given topology.

8- Typed Wildcard MP FEC:
  i) The document T-LDP section indicate use of MP FEC in LDP message for l=
eaf discovery, but does not indicate Typed WC MP FEC.
  IMO, this is very important functionality it will be useful to use Typed =
WC MP FEC for "withdrawing" ALL the previous join by the leaf towards a roo=
t.

   ii) If you refine LDP label procedures and decide to continue using labe=
l msgs (and not Notification messages), then a root can also send Typed Wil=
dcard MP FEC Label-Request message to all potential leafs to learn/re-learn=
 leafs for MP FECs as leaf respond to Label-Request. This will



9- Minor comments:


- section 2 para 2: it can be rephrased - all it is trying to say is that a=
n existing MP LSP can be shared amongst

  different apps - which is currently not being done.


- Terminology: need to fix some incorrect use of terminology - e,g, T-LDP i=
s defined as "Target LDP" instead of "Targeted LDP". Moreover, the definiti=
on of "MP2MP FEC" is not accurate/precise enough.


Regards,

-- Kamran


From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:53:44 -0400
To: "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com<mailto:jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>" <je=
remy.whittaker@verizon.com<mailto:jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>>, "Syed Kam=
ran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com<mailto:skraza@cisco.com>>, Vero Zheng =
<vero.zheng@huawei.com<mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com>>
Cc: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>, "George Swallow (swallow)"=
 <swallow@cisco.com<mailto:swallow@cisco.com>>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vi=
goureux@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>>, Ro=
ss Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>>, "lizhong.jin@z=
te.com.cn<mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>" <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn<mailto:li=
zhong.jin@zte.com.cn>>, "kebo.liu@nsn.com<mailto:kebo.liu@nsn.com>" <kebo.l=
iu@nsn.com<mailto:kebo.liu@nsn.com>>, "sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com<mailto:s=
riganesh.kini@ericsson.com>" <sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com<mailto:sriganesh.=
kini@ericsson.com>>
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-jin-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery

Jeremy, Kamran, Vero;

You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
draft-jin-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery

Note to authors: You have been CC=92d on this email so that you can know th=
at
this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.

Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
(ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is
the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the
document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=92t have t=
o
be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).

Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secretary,
and CC=92d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent
privately to only the WG chairs.

Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to the IETF
meeting in Vancouver)?

Thanks, Ross
(as MPLS WG chair)


--_000_CC3453471024Bskrazaciscocom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">Hello authors/c=
hairs,</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">As MPLS-RT proc=
ess, I've reviewed the document.&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"Apple-style-spa=
n" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">Please see below summary and details of my r=
eview:</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">Summary of revi=
ew</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
</p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 11p=
x/normal Helvetica; ">
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;">a. is the document c=
oherent?</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 11p=
x/normal Helvetica; ">
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;">There are few areas =
which need more work / clarification.</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 11px/normal Helvetica; ">
<font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Courier"><span class=3D"Apple-styl=
e-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 11p=
x/normal Helvetica; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><span style=3D"=
font-family: Courier; ">b. is it useful?</span><span style=3D"font-family: =
Courier; ">&nbsp;</span></span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 11p=
x/normal Helvetica; ">
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;">Yes.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14p=
x/normal Calibri; min-height: 17px; ">
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 11p=
x/normal Helvetica; ">
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;">c. is technically so=
und ?</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 11p=
x/normal Helvetica; ">
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;">Need some more detai=
ls and clarification on both LDP and BGP sections (items listed below under=
 &quot;Detailed comments&quot;).&nbsp;</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal Calibri; min-height: 17px=
; ">
<font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Courier"><span class=3D"Apple-styl=
e-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 11p=
x/normal Helvetica; ">
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;">d. is ready to be co=
nsidered for WG adoption ?</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 11p=
x/normal Helvetica; ">
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;">IMO, the authors nee=
d to address/close the main comments [ see below ], and publish next rev be=
fore WG adoption call.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; min-height: 16px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; min-height: 16px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">Detailed commen=
ts:</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">1- The document=
 proposed &quot;leaf discovery&quot; procedures. However, it is not clear t=
o a reader about exactly what's being discovered:</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">Leaf address ? =
Leaf attributes/capabilities ? [ looking at the later sections, one deduces=
 that it is just the leaf node address ].</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">2- Similar to #=
1 above:</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;</=
span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">The docum=
ent refers to &quot;leaf node information&quot; at several places without e=
laborating more about it.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;W=
hat exactly is this info ? is this just the sender LSR Id ? or is it encode=
d in opaque value of FEC ?</span></p>
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px; "></span>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">For #1 and #2,=
 need to clarify exactly what does &quot;leaf discovery&quot; and &quot;lea=
f node information&quot; means in terms of contents.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; font-family: Cou=
rier; font-size: 13px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">3- The documen=
t states that leaf discovery is useful for both &quot;root initiated&quot; =
and &quot;leaf initiated&quot; applications. &nbsp;</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; font-family: Cou=
rier; font-size: 13px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">Can you please=
 specify/elaborate more on a use case for leaf discovery which benefits an =
&quot;leaf initiated&quot; app , and how ?&nbsp;</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; font-family: Cou=
rier; font-size: 13px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">[ section 2 is=
 not very clear to me for leaf initiated case ] . Moreover, later section 4=
 on &quot;Leaf discovery&quot; only talks about 'root initiated apps.</span=
></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; font-size: medium; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">4- Although do=
cument's title/other text suggest applicability to both p2mp/mp2mp, it is n=
ot made clear in specific sections</span></p>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: =
medium; "><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px; "></span></=
span>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; font-size: medium; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;if=
 procedure listed in those sections are just for p2mp or both for p2mp/mp2m=
p ? Moreover, need to clarify if there are any&nbsp;</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; font-size: medium; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">differences in=
 these procedures.</span></p>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br>
</span></div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: =
medium; "><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px; "></span></=
span></span>
<p></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">5- LDP capabili=
ty:</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;T=
he document section 4.1 on T-LDP suggests using/sharing the existing mLDP &=
quot;P2MP&quot; capability [base mLDP RFC 6388].&nbsp;</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;I=
've few comments in this regards:</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;i=
) The document claims to address both p2mp/mp2mp cases so why &quot;P2MP&qu=
ot; only capability is negotiated here, whereas mLDP negotiates separate p2=
mp and mp2mp capabilities ? &nbsp;</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;i=
i) I am not sure if piggybacking on existing mLDP capabilities is right thi=
ng .. it should define its own LDP capability.</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">6- Use of Labe=
l messages:</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;F=
irstly, this section 4.1 is very thin on LDP protocol detail. Need more con=
tent.</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp;</span><=
/p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;T=
he document section 4.1 specifies use of LDP Label Mapping and Withdraw mes=
sages (with Imp-Null label) to indicate leaf join/leave.</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;I=
MO, this is not a good idea to use LDP label messages to convey this info f=
or following reasons:</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
i) use of imp-null label in the message to mean something special may pose =
problems if in future imp-null is to be used by any application for other r=
easons.</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
ii) you are making presence of &quot;Label TLV&quot; mandatory in your labe=
l-wdw messages =96 which is contrary to LDP spec RFC 5036 which specifies &=
quot;Label TLV&quot; as an optional param. If you need to enforce this,
 this is an &quot;update&quot; to RFC 5036.</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
iii) If l</span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
">eaf and root are directly connected, there will be two set of Label mappi=
ng/wdw messages exchanged =96 one for MP LSP and other
 for Leaf-Discovery. These different set carrying &quot;same&quot; FEC but =
potentially different &quot;labels&quot; will be potentially confusing.</sp=
an></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
iv) As per my comment # 2, &nbsp;what/how would receiver extract leaf node =
info from the rcvd Label-mapping msg. This needs to be clarified.</span></p=
>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp;</span><=
/p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">Considering ab=
ove points, the better solution is to use LDP Notification with MP Status =
=97 I.e.&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 1=
2px; ">extend/use &quot;MP Status&quot; notification to convey
 leaf join/leave.&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"fon=
t-size: 12px; ">[ Note : a MP Status Notification msg contains both the FEC=
 and the Status code ]. If you agree with the use of LDP MP Status, then yo=
u should define new/separate LDP capability
 for this extension.</span></p>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: =
medium; "><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px; "></span></=
span>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; min-height: 16px; font-size: medium; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br>
</span></p>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: =
medium; "><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px; "></span></=
span>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">7- Leaf address=
:</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Re=
fer to section 4.2.1, the &quot;leaf node&quot; information carried in BGP =
is &quot;Leaf node address&quot;. Couple of comments:</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">&nbsp; &nbsp; i=
) Similar information is needed under LDP section.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">&nbsp; &nbsp; I=
i) This document is hardcoding address to an IP type, which is not correct.=
 If mLDP root address is generic enough, why define</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; mLDP leaf address as &quot;IP&quot; specific. You should defin=
e the leaf address in the same way as root address =97 I.e.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;[ Address Family, Address ] where Address and its length is dic=
tated by the Addr-Family. Please note that your existing definition&nbsp;</=
span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">will
 NOT work for other address families =96 e.g. For &quot;MT mLDP&quot; (draf=
t-iwijnand-mpls-mldp-multi-topology-02), the address is in the scope of a g=
iven topology.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
</p>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"=
font-size: 12px; "><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"=
font-size: 12px; ">8- Typed Wildcard MP FEC:</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"=
font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; i) The document T-LDP section indicate use of MP =
FEC in LDP message for leaf discovery, but does not indicate Typed WC MP FE=
C.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"=
font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; IMO, this is very important functionality it will=
 be useful to use Typed WC MP FEC for &quot;withdrawing&quot; ALL the previ=
ous join by the leaf towards a root.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"=
font-size: 12px; "><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;ii) If you refine LDP label p=
rocedures and decide to continue using label msgs (and not Notification mes=
sages), then a root can also send Typed Wildcard MP FEC Label-Request messa=
ge to all potential leafs to learn/re-learn
 leafs for MP FECs as leaf respond to Label-Request. This will</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br>
</div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: =
medium; "><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px; "></span></=
span>
<p></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">9- Minor commen=
ts:</span></p>
<p></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br>
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">- section 2 pa=
ra 2: it can be rephrased - all it is trying to say is that an existing MP =
LSP can be shared amongst&nbsp;</span></p>
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px; "></span>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">&nbsp; differen=
t apps - which is currently not being done.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px; "></span>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">- Terminology: =
need to fix some incorrect use of terminology - e,g, T-LDP is defined as &q=
uot;Target LDP&quot; instead of &quot;Targeted LDP&quot;. Moreover, the def=
inition of&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size:=
 12px; ">&quot;MP2MP
 FEC&quot; is not accurate/precise enough.</span></p>
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px; "></span>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; min-height: 16px; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></p>
<span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px; "></span>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">Regards,</span>=
</p>
<p style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-top: 0px; margin-right=
: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13p=
x/normal Courier; ">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;">-- Kamran</span=
></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; ">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Ross Callon &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:53:44 -04=
00<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jeremy.=
whittaker@verizon.com">jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com">jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com</a>&g=
t;, &quot;Syed Kamran Raza (skraza)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:skraza@cisc=
o.com">skraza@cisco.com</a>&gt;,
 Vero Zheng &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com">vero.zheng@huawei.=
com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;, &quot;George Swallow (swallow)&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:swallow@cisco.com">swallow@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Martin Vig=
oureux &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com">martin.vi=
goureux@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;,
 Ross Callon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net=
</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@zte.c=
om.cn</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn">lizhong.jin@z=
te.com.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:kebo.liu@nsn.com">kebo.liu@nsn.c=
om</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kebo.liu@nsn.com">kebo.liu@nsn.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com">sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com</a=
>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com">sriganesh.kini@e=
ricsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>MPLS-RT review of draft-ji=
n-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server">
<!-- converted from rtf --><style><!-- .EmailQuote { margin-left: 1pt; padd=
ing-left: 4pt; border-left: #800000 2px solid; } --></style>
<div><font face=3D"Consolas,monospace" size=3D"2">
<div>Jeremy, Kamran, Vero;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for</div>
<div>draft-jin-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Note to authors: You have been CC=92d on this email so that you can kn=
ow that </div>
<div>this review is going on. However, please do not review your own docume=
nt. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it usef=
ul</div>
<div>(ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and =
is</div>
<div>the document technically sound?&nbsp; We are interested in knowing whe=
ther the </div>
<div>document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn=92t h=
ave to</div>
<div>be perfect at this point, but should be a good start). </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and secre=
tary,</div>
<div>and CC=92d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be se=
nt </div>
<div>privately to only the WG chairs. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to the I=
ETF </div>
<div>meeting in Vancouver)? </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks, Ross</div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2">(as MPLS WG chair)</font>=
</div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div>
</font></div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CC3453471024Bskrazaciscocom_--

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From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" <eosborne@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
Thread-Index: AQHNZA9kdDjcOPvx70OLt6egOR55fJcty1JggAs51zA=
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:55:48 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
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Is it too late to add something? =20

G.808.1 (02/2010), clause 16:

"In principle, it is possible to allocate an APS=20
channel on every transport entity. Allocation of this channel on a working =
transport entity, however,=20
would not provide sufficient survivability; i.e., when the working transpor=
t entity would fail,=20
communication between the two endpoints will fail as well, and protection i=
s not possible.=20
Therefore the APS channel is allocated to one or more protection transport =
entities."

This doesn't say "APS is on both W and P", which is how I think APS is actu=
ally done (??).  It says "APS is allocated to one or more protection transp=
ort entities", which is exactly how PSC does it.




eric


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Osborne (eosborne)
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:29 PM
> To: 'Loa Andersson'; mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection
> Switching
>=20
> One thing you may wish to add to #3 is that per G.870 clause 3.2.28, "The
> exercise functionality is optional".
>=20
>=20
>=20
> eric
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > Loa Andersson
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:25 AM
> > To: mpls@ietf.org
> > Cc: mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> > Subject: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection
> Switching
> >
> > Working Group,
> >
> > A few weeks ago the working group chairs asked for volunteers to do
> > a first spin on a response to the liaison "Revision of Recommendation
> > ITU-T G.8131 - Linear protection switching for MPLS-TP networks"
> > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1162/).
> >
> > Thanks to Yacoov W and Eric O who stepped and did most of the work,
> > thanks also to people who sent comments and advices.
> >
> > Included is a proposed response to the liaison.
> >
> > Please send comments on the proposal to the MPLS working group mailing
> > list (mpls@ietf.org) July 26th the latest.
> >
> > /Loa
> > (MPLS WG co-chair)
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> > Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
> >                                               +46 767 72 92 13


From loa@pi.nu  Tue Jul 24 15:08:43 2012
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
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Eric,

the response is still open for comments, will close the consensus
call on the morning of July 27th.

/Loa

On 2012-07-24 23:55, Eric Osborne (eosborne) wrote:
> Is it too late to add something?
>
> G.808.1 (02/2010), clause 16:
>
> "In principle, it is possible to allocate an APS
> channel on every transport entity. Allocation of this channel on a working transport entity, however,
> would not provide sufficient survivability; i.e., when the working transport entity would fail,
> communication between the two endpoints will fail as well, and protection is not possible.
> Therefore the APS channel is allocated to one or more protection transport entities."
>
> This doesn't say "APS is on both W and P", which is how I think APS is actually done (??).  It says "APS is allocated to one or more protection transport entities", which is exactly how PSC does it.
>
>
>
>
> eric
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Eric Osborne (eosborne)
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:29 PM
>> To: 'Loa Andersson'; mpls@ietf.org
>> Cc: mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
>> Subject: RE: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection
>> Switching
>>
>> One thing you may wish to add to #3 is that per G.870 clause 3.2.28, "The
>> exercise functionality is optional".
>>
>>
>>
>> eric
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> Loa Andersson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:25 AM
>>> To: mpls@ietf.org
>>> Cc: mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
>>> Subject: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection
>> Switching
>>>
>>> Working Group,
>>>
>>> A few weeks ago the working group chairs asked for volunteers to do
>>> a first spin on a response to the liaison "Revision of Recommendation
>>> ITU-T G.8131 - Linear protection switching for MPLS-TP networks"
>>> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1162/).
>>>
>>> Thanks to Yacoov W and Eric O who stepped and did most of the work,
>>> thanks also to people who sent comments and advices.
>>>
>>> Included is a proposed response to the liaison.
>>>
>>> Please send comments on the proposal to the MPLS working group mailing
>>> list (mpls@ietf.org) July 26th the latest.
>>>
>>> /Loa
>>> (MPLS WG co-chair)
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
>>> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
>>> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>>>                                                +46 767 72 92 13
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

From eosborne@cisco.com  Tue Jul 24 15:33:55 2012
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From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" <eosborne@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
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I'd made two comments on this thread.  The first pointed out that per g.870=
, EXER was optional.  The second, which I sent out just now, pointed out th=
at per G.808.1, APS ran on the protection channel.

Nevermind the second one.  I thought it lined up with one of the points in =
the most recent liaison, but it does so in a fairly nuanced way so I don't =
think it's worth putting in the liaison. =20

For the record, the subtlety is this: the liaison's first point is that in =
APS, SF-P > FS.  In PSC, FS > (SF-W, SF-P).  Therefore, the two protocols w=
ill behave differently.  Our original response to this was that yes, they w=
ill behave differently, but the protocols themselves are different.  When I=
 first wrote text to reply to this point I was under the impression that AP=
S was sent on both W&P.  I may have been mistaken, as g.808.1 clearly calls=
 for it to run only on P.  I propose no changes to the most recent liaison =
response text.

For the point about EXER...the most recent text from Adrian around this poi=
nt is:


---
3.	Regarding the EXER function - This comment was raised during the IETF La=
st Call and was discussed with the individual that raised the comment.  As =
a result of this discussion an appendix (Appendix B - Page 44) was added th=
at suggests various ways of implementing the functionality that is required=
.
---

I am fine with this text as it stands.  You may wish to incorporate the poi=
nt about G.870, and so I suggest the following text, adding two sentences a=
t the end:

---
3.	Regarding the EXER function - This comment was raised during the IETF La=
st Call and was discussed with the individual that raised the comment.  As =
a result of this discussion an appendix (Appendix B - Page 44) was added th=
at suggests various ways of implementing the functionality that is required=
.  In addition, G.870 clause 3.2.26 defines the exercise signal as optional=
.  If a mandatory EXER function is required in MPLS-TP's PSC, please explai=
n why it is not required in OTN's APS.
---

Whether this text is useful or not is up for discussion.  I am fine with it=
 either in or out.

Note that I could not find text in g.841 (MSP), g.8031 (Ethernet linear pro=
tection) or g.8131 (draft MPLS-TP linear protection) that declares EXER to =
be optional.  So it may not be worth pointing out the inconsistency between=
 ITU standards.



eric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:09 PM
> To: Eric Osborne (eosborne)
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection
> Switching
>=20
> Eric,
>=20
> the response is still open for comments, will close the consensus
> call on the morning of July 27th.
>=20
> /Loa
>=20
> On 2012-07-24 23:55, Eric Osborne (eosborne) wrote:
> > Is it too late to add something?
> >
> > G.808.1 (02/2010), clause 16:
> >
> > "In principle, it is possible to allocate an APS
> > channel on every transport entity. Allocation of this channel on a work=
ing
> transport entity, however,
> > would not provide sufficient survivability; i.e., when the working tran=
sport
> entity would fail,
> > communication between the two endpoints will fail as well, and protecti=
on
> is not possible.
> > Therefore the APS channel is allocated to one or more protection transp=
ort
> entities."
> >
> > This doesn't say "APS is on both W and P", which is how I think APS is
> actually done (??).  It says "APS is allocated to one or more protection
> transport entities", which is exactly how PSC does it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > eric
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Eric Osborne (eosborne)
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:29 PM
> >> To: 'Loa Andersson'; mpls@ietf.org
> >> Cc: mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> >> Subject: RE: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection
> >> Switching
> >>
> >> One thing you may wish to add to #3 is that per G.870 clause 3.2.28, "=
The
> >> exercise functionality is optional".
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> eric
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> >> Of
> >>> Loa Andersson
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:25 AM
> >>> To: mpls@ietf.org
> >>> Cc: mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> >>> Subject: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection
> >> Switching
> >>>
> >>> Working Group,
> >>>
> >>> A few weeks ago the working group chairs asked for volunteers to do
> >>> a first spin on a response to the liaison "Revision of Recommendation
> >>> ITU-T G.8131 - Linear protection switching for MPLS-TP networks"
> >>> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1162/).
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to Yacoov W and Eric O who stepped and did most of the work,
> >>> thanks also to people who sent comments and advices.
> >>>
> >>> Included is a proposed response to the liaison.
> >>>
> >>> Please send comments on the proposal to the MPLS working group
> mailing
> >>> list (mpls@ietf.org) July 26th the latest.
> >>>
> >>> /Loa
> >>> (MPLS WG co-chair)
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.c=
om
> >>> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> >>> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
> >>>                                                +46 767 72 92 13
> >
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13

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From pabloisnot@gmail.com  Wed Jul 25 06:33:52 2012
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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:33:50 -0400
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From: Pablo Frank <pabloisnot@gmail.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>,  "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444ec198019bb04c5a7875e
Subject: Re: [mpls] implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label ???
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--f46d0444ec198019bb04c5a7875e
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Hi Loa,

Ciena is planning on implementing this soon.

regards,
Pablo

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Ravi Singh <ravis@juniper.net> wrote:

> Hello Loa
>
> Juniper is planning to implement this.
>
> Regards
> Ravi
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > Loa Andersson
> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:20 AM
> > To: mpls@ietf.org
> > Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label
> > ???
> >
> > Working Group,
> >
> > I had one comment off-line on this pointing that we are also
> > interested in "intention to implement"!
> >
> > Please also respond if you intend to implement!
> >
> > /Loa
> >
> > On 2012-07-19 13:36, Loa Andersson wrote:
> > > Working Group,
> > >
> > > we are preparing the request for publication for
> > > draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label, as part of the shepherd write-up
> > > we need to know about existing implementations.
> > >
> > > Please send mails to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org) or the
> > > working group chairs to inform us about implementations.
> > >
> > > /Loa
> > > (as wg co-chair)
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> > Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
> >                                               +46 767 72 92 13
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

--f46d0444ec198019bb04c5a7875e
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Hi Loa,<div><br></div><div>Ciena is planning on implementing this soon.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>regards,</div><div>Pablo<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote">On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Ravi Singh <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ravis@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">ravis@juniper.net</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello Loa<br>
<br>
Juniper is planning to implement this.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">Ravi<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</=
a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</=
a>] On Behalf Of<br>
&gt; Loa Andersson<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:20 AM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org">mpls-chairs@tools.ie=
tf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label<b=
r>
&gt; ???<br>
&gt;<br>
</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">&gt; Working Group,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I had one comment off-line on this pointing that we are also<br>
&gt; interested in &quot;intention to implement&quot;!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please also respond if you intend to implement!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; /Loa<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 2012-07-19 13:36, Loa Andersson wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; Working Group,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; we are preparing the request for publication for<br>
&gt; &gt; draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-label, as part of the shepherd write-up<b=
r>
&gt; &gt; we need to know about existing implementations.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Please send mails to the mpls wg mailing list (<a href=3D"mailto:=
mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>) or the<br>
&gt; &gt; working group chairs to inform us about implementations.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; /Loa<br>
&gt; &gt; (as wg co-chair)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 email: <=
a href=3D"mailto:loa.andersson@ericsson.com">loa.andersson@ericsson.com</a>=
<br>
&gt; Sr Strategy and Standards Manager =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
&gt; Ericsson Inc =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone:=
 <a href=3D"tel:%2B46%2010%20717%2052%2013" value=3D"+46107175213">+46 10 7=
17 52 13</a><br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <a href=3D"tel:%2B46%20767%2072%2092%2013" value=3D=
"+46767729213">+46 767 72 92 13</a><br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; mpls mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--f46d0444ec198019bb04c5a7875e--

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From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" <eosborne@cisco.com>
To: "draft-ali-mpls-inter-domain-p2mp-rsvp-te-lsp@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ali-mpls-inter-domain-p2mp-rsvp-te-lsp@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>,  "tnadeau@juniper.net" <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "Gregory Mirsky (gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com)" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT comments on draft-ali-mpls-inter-domain-p2mp-rsvp-te-lsp-08
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Subject: [mpls] MPLS-RT comments on draft-ali-mpls-inter-domain-p2mp-rsvp-te-lsp-08
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These are my review team comments on draft-ali-mpls-inter-domain-p2mp-rsvp-=
te-lsp-08. =20

* Is the document coherent?
=20
It needs work.  The formatting is off (try to print the pdf version of the =
txt doc and you'll see what I mean).  It needs a serious editorial cleanup =
- for example, section 4.1/4.2 refer to a flag as both Recording and Record=
ing Request, and another as Re-merge Presence and Re-merge Present.  It als=
o has a structure that makes it hard to follow, and a large number of SHOUL=
Ds where I think there ought to be MUSTs.


* Is it useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational netwo=
rks), and is the document technically sound? =20

I believe that this document solves the problem it purports to solve.  It d=
oes so largely by adding three bits and an error code to extend existing p2=
mp single-area procedures across domain boundaries.  I think at its heart i=
t is technically sound, although its current state makes it hard to follow.


* Is the document ready to be considered for WG adoption?

There are three parts to this question: technical suitability, document qua=
lity, and desirability.

The document seems technically suitable; the procedures it defines are a go=
od start to solving the problem, and that's what a document needs to be bef=
ore WG status.

As I said above, the quality is not quite there.

As far as desirabilty...I have reviewed v08 of the document.  v00 was poste=
d in July of 2008, so the doc is quite old.  Although I buy into the genera=
l idea that things which work in a single domain should work across domains=
, I'd like to see whether this document has interest from others, primarily=
 operators. =20



eric

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Subject: Re: [mpls] WG Last Call draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-08
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This WG Last Call has ended.

Authors, please address the comments.

Thanks,
Deborah and Lou

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BRU=
NGARD, DEBORAH A
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:11 PM
To: ccamp@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] WG Last Call draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-08

*** Security Advisory: This Message Originated Outside of AT&T ***.
Reference http://cso.att.com/EmailSecurity/IDSP.html for more information.

Working Group(s),

This is to start a Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls=
-tp-oam-ext-08.

Please send your comments to the CCAMP WG mailing list.

This working group last call ends July 24th.

Deborah (and Lou)


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From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com  Wed Jul 25 16:20:02 2012
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: "Jay Karthik (jakarthi)" <jakarthi@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:19:54 -0400
Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Last Call: <draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-09.txt> (Methodology for benchmarking MPLS protection mechanisms) to Informational RFC
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--_000_FE60A4E52763E84B935532D7D9294FF13924C82A1FEUSAACMS0715e_
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Hi Jay, et al.,
thank you for your careful consideration of my comments. Couple more notes =
on -10 version follow:

 *
"MPLS-FRR" might be interpretted as both MPLS-TE-FRR and LDP-FRR. I would c=
onsider using in the document MPLS-TE-FRR or RSVP-TE-FRR.
 *
Section 5.2 I think that "Ethernet based links do not have layer 2 failure =
indicators, and therefore relies on layer 3 signaling for failure detection=
" is not entirely accurate. I'd point to IEEE 802.1ag/CFM and Y.1731 that c=
an be used to monitor continuity among MEPs of specified MA/MEG. Thus use o=
f Layer 3 is not required but optional.
 *
Section 5.2 In reference to BFD "These methods can be used for the layer 3 =
failure indicators ..." I'd note that BFD can be used in ACH, i.e. non-IP, =
encapsulation to monitor LSP, Segment or Section.
 *
Section 5.6 Restoration and Reversion. Restoration in MPLS-TE FRR network r=
elies on the control plane signalling. As I interpret Section 2. Document S=
cope, the document concentrates on defining benchmarking test cases to meas=
ure performance of facility backup FRR as defined in RFC 4090. I think that=
 Restoration and Reversion are out of that scope. If that is the case, then=
 statement "It is important to include Restoration and Reversion as a step =
in each test case to measure the amount of packet loss, out of order packet=
s, or duplicate packets that occurs in this process" is confusing.
 *
Section 6.1. I find most test cases very confusing. As stated in the Sectio=
n 2, the scope of this document is on facility backup method of MPLS-TE FRR=
. Thus backup tunnel is bypass backup tunnel that is encapsulating protecte=
d LSP(s).
 *
Section 6.1 and 6.2 I don't see enough rational for so many test cases. IMO=
, PLR performance in protection switchover is not affected by topology of a=
 bypass tunnel. And I'm concerned that failure detection has not been separ=
ated from protection switchover itself and will make benchmark testing resu=
lts, e.g. larger BFD interval being used larger variation in detection time=
 will be in the tests. Hence, after a switchover protected LSP would have a=
n extra label on its stack.
 *
Section 7.1 Benchmarking MPLS Performance seems outside of scope for this d=
ocument. Can it be spawn into a separate document and then referenced?

    Regards,
        Greg

________________________________
From: Jay Karthik (jakarthi) [mailto:jakarthi@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 6:55 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: bmwg@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bmwg] Last Call: <draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-09.txt> (Me=
thodology for benchmarking MPLS protection mechanisms) to Informational RFC

Greg,

First of all, apologies in getting back to you this late. Even though we in=
corporated your comments in the most recent version (-10, published on 5/29=
), a formal response to your comments should have been made sooner.

Please see inline marked (JK) for the specific response to your comments.

Thanks for your thorough review.

Best,
Jay

I'm concerned with the very title of the document, Methodology for benchmar=
king MPLS protection mechanisms, even though only MPLS-TE FRR being conside=
red while LSP end-to-end and segment protection implicitly being kept out o=
f the scope.

JK: Modified the title to be more explicit in the most recent version poste=
d.

I've found several textual inaccuracies related to both MPLS and BFD to mak=
e me wonder if the document was liasioned to MPLS WG.
List of acronyms is missing - PLR, OIR, LOS, AIS, etc.

JK: PLR is defined in Term RFC 6414 that we are referencing. OIR Is mention=
ed in Appendix B. Other acronyms such as AIS and LOS are added in rev 10.

Introduction. I think that for "planned link or node failure" MBB is more e=
fficient and useful than FRR. But MBB is not being mentioned in the documen=
t.

JK: We have used the term Revision which implies MBB

Introduction. "A correlated failure is the simultaneous occurrence of two o=
r more failures." Personally, as correlated events I consider events with c=
ause-effect relationship.
Introduction. Path restoration after FRR discussion does not appear logical=
, in the scope of benchmarking document.

JK: We have modified section 5.6

Document Scope. "Protection from Bi-directional Forwarding Detection (BFD) =
is outside the scope of this document." I frankly couldn't decode this sent=
ense.

JK: Addressed in rev 10

Document Scope. Several references to Path Restoration as Re-optimization -=
 doubt that it belongs in the document at all.

JK: Section 5.6 adds more color to this discussion

Sections 6.1.1 through 6.2.4 - what is relevance of listing numbers of labe=
ls in the stack?

JK: Convergence, performance may be dependent on the label stack depth.

Peerformance of control plane should be outside of the scope of benchmarkin=
g as it is end-to-end metrics, not explicitly of DUT.

JK: Scope modified

--_000_FE60A4E52763E84B935532D7D9294FF13924C82A1FEUSAACMS0715e_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6002.18616" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; WORD-WRAP: brea=
k-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
size=3D2>Hi Jay, et al.,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
size=3D2>thank you for your careful consideration of my comments. Couple mo=
re=20
notes on -10 version follow:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<UL dir=3Dltr>
  <LI>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>"MPLS-FRR" might be interpretted as both MPLS-TE-FRR and LDP-FRR=
. I=20
  would consider using in the document MPLS-TE-FRR or=20
  RSVP-TE-FRR.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <LI>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DArial siz=
e=3D2>Section=20
  5.2 I think that "Ethernet based links do not have layer 2 failure indica=
tors,=20
  and therefore relies on layer 3 signaling for failure detection" is not=20
  entirely accurate. I'd point to IEEE 802.1ag/CFM and Y.1731 that can be u=
sed=20
  to monitor continuity&nbsp;among MEPs of specified MA/MEG. Thus use of La=
yer 3=20
  is not required but optional.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <LI>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DArial siz=
e=3D2>Section=20
  5.2 In reference to BFD "These methods can be used for the layer 3 failur=
e=20
  indicators ..." I'd note that BFD can be used in ACH, i.e. non-IP,=20
  encapsulation to monitor LSP, Segment or Section.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <LI>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DArial siz=
e=3D2>Section=20
  5.6 Restoration and Reversion. Restoration in MPLS-TE FRR network relies =
on=20
  the control plane signalling. As I interpret Section 2. Document Scope, t=
he=20
  document concentrates on defining benchmarking test cases to measure=20
  performance of&nbsp;facility backup FRR as defined in RFC 4090. I think t=
hat=20
  Restoration and Reversion are out of that scope. If that is the case, the=
n=20
  statement&nbsp;"It is important to include Restoration and Reversion as a=
 step=20
  in each test case to measure the amount of packet loss, out of order pack=
ets,=20
  or duplicate packets that <SPAN class=3Dinsert>occurs in this process" is=
=20
  confusing.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <LI>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DArial siz=
e=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3Dinsert>Section 6.1. I find most test cases very confusing.&nbsp;A=
s=20
  stated in the Section 2, the scope of this document is on facility backup=
=20
  method of&nbsp;MPLS-TE FRR. Thus backup tunnel is bypass backup tunnel th=
at is=20
  encapsulating protected LSP(s). </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <LI>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DArial siz=
e=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3Dinsert>Section 6.1 and 6.2 <FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT color=3D#0=
00000>I=20
  don't see enough rational for so many test cases. IMO, PLR performance in=
=20
  protection switchover is not affected by topology of a bypass tunnel. And=
 I'm=20
  concerned that failure detection has not been separated from protection=20
  switchover itself and will make benchmark testing results, e.g. larger BF=
D=20
  interval being used larger variation in detection time will be in the=20
  tests</FONT></FONT>. Hence, after a switchover protected LSP would have a=
n=20
  extra label on its stack.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <LI>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DArial siz=
e=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3Dinsert>Section 7.1 Benchmarking MPLS Performance seems outside of=
 scope=20
  for this document. Can it be spawn into a separate document and then=20
  referenced?</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV></LI></UL>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dinsert>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</SPAN></FONT></SP=
AN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D069521220-17072012><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dinsert>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Greg</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Jay Karthik (jakarthi)=20
[mailto:jakarthi@cisco.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 13, 2012 6:55=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Gregory Mirsky<BR><B>Cc:</B> bmwg@ietf.org;=20
mpls@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [bmwg] Last Call:=20
&lt;draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-09.txt&gt; (Methodology for benchmarkin=
g=20
MPLS protection mechanisms) to Informational RFC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-ser=
if">Greg,</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-ser=
if"><BR></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-ser=
if">First=20
of all, apologies in getting back to you this late. Even though we incorpor=
ated=20
your comments in the most recent version (-10, published on 5/29), a formal=
=20
response to your comments should have been made sooner.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-ser=
if"><BR></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-ser=
if">Please=20
see inline marked (JK) for the specific response to your comments.</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-ser=
if"><BR></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-ser=
if">Thanks=20
for your thorough review.</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-ser=
if"><BR></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-ser=
if">Best,</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-ser=
if">Jay</DIV><SPAN=20
id=3DOLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-brea=
k: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
id=3DOLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><BR>I'm concerned with the very title =
of the=20
document, Methodology for benchmarking MPLS protection mechanisms, even tho=
ugh=20
only MPLS-TE FRR being considered while LSP end-to-end and segment protecti=
on=20
implicitly being kept out of the=20
scope.<BR></FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">JK: Modified the title to be more explicit=
 in the=20
most recent version posted.</DIV><SPAN id=3DOLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-brea=
k: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
id=3DOLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span=20
color=3D#ff0000><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN><SPAN id=3DOLK_SRC_BODY_SECTI=
ON=20
style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">
<DIV>
<DIV>I've found several textual inaccuracies related to both MPLS and BFD t=
o=20
make me wonder if the document was liasioned to MPLS WG.<BR>List of acronym=
s is=20
missing - PLR, OIR, LOS, AIS, etc.<BR><BR><FONT style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"=
=20
color=3D#ff0000>JK: PLR is defined in Term RFC 6414 that we are referencing=
. OIR=20
Is mentioned in Appendix B. Other acronyms such as AIS and LOS are added in=
 rev=20
10.<BR></FONT><BR>Introduction. I think that for "planned link or node fail=
ure"=20
MBB is more efficient and useful than FRR. But MBB is not being mentioned i=
n the=20
document.<BR><BR><FONT size=3D+0>JK: We have used the term Revision which i=
mplies=20
MBB</FONT><BR><BR>Introduction. "A correlated failure is the simultaneous=20
occurrence of two or more failures." Personally, as correlated events I con=
sider=20
events with cause-effect relationship.<BR><FONT style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"=
=20
color=3D#ff0000></FONT>Introduction. Path restoration after FRR discussion =
does=20
not appear logical, in the scope of benchmarking document.<BR><BR>JK: We ha=
ve=20
modified section 5.6<FONT size=3D+0><FONT class=3DApple-style-span=20
color=3D#ff0000><BR></FONT></FONT><FONT style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><BR>Doc=
ument=20
Scope. "Protection from Bi-directional Forwarding Detection (BFD) is outsid=
e the=20
scope of this document." I frankly couldn't decode this=20
sentense.<BR></FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">JK: Addressed in rev 10</DIV><SPAN=20
id=3DOLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-brea=
k: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
id=3DOLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT class=3DApple-style-span=20
color=3D#ff0000><BR></FONT>Document Scope. Several references to Path Resto=
ration=20
as Re-optimization - doubt that it belongs in the document at all.<BR><BR><=
FONT=20
style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)" color=3D#ff0000>JK: Section 5.6 adds more color=
 to this=20
discussion<BR></FONT><BR>Sections 6.1.1 through 6.2.4 - what is relevance o=
f=20
listing numbers of labels in the stack?<BR><BR><FONT style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,=
0,0)"=20
color=3D#ff0000>JK: Convergence, performance may be dependent on the label =
stack=20
depth. <BR></FONT><BR>Peerformance of control plane should be outside of th=
e=20
scope of benchmarking as it is end-to-end metrics, not explicitly of=20
DUT.<BR><BR><FONT style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)" color=3D#ff0000>JK: Scope=20
modified<BR></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BO=
DY></HTML>

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From loa@pi.nu  Thu Jul 26 00:30:03 2012
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Subject: [mpls] Request for Publication: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework-04
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IESG.

the MPLS working Group requests that

draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework-04

is published as an Informational RFC.

The Shepherd write-up is included.

/Loa
(as wg co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

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--------------070806060809090000050101--

From loa@pi.nu  Thu Jul 26 01:45:52 2012
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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 10:45:43 +0200
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] Closed: working group las call on draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt
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Working Group,

this working group last call is closed.

There have been comments that the authors need to address and publish a
new version of the document.

/Loa

On 2012-07-09 17:04, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> this is to start a working group last call on
>
> draft-ietf-mpls-return-path-specified-lsp-ping-05.txt
>
> Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> This working group last call July 23, 2012.
>
> Please note that there is an IPR disclosure against this draft.
>
> /Loa
> for the MPLS working group co-chairs

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

From loa@pi.nu  Thu Jul 26 03:19:50 2012
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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:19:40 +0200
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping
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Working Group and authors;

the authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping has
asked that the draft is working group last called.

Before the working group last call, we would like to check whether
there is IPR on the document that needs to be disclosed.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list. The 
documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
has been received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

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From: Ping Pan <PPan@infinera.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping
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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:31:47 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping
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No from here

On Jul 26, 2012, at 3:20 AM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working Group and authors;
>=20
> the authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping has
> asked that the draft is working group last called.
>=20
> Before the working group last call, we would like to check whether
> there is IPR on the document that needs to be disclosed.
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list. The docum=
ents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                             +46 767 72 92 13

From rajiva@cisco.com  Thu Jul 26 05:35:13 2012
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From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" <rajiva@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping
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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:35:45 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping
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Not aware of any IPR.

Cheers,
Rajiv

Sent from my Phone

On Jul 26, 2012, at 6:20 AM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working Group and authors;
>=20
> the authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping has
> asked that the draft is working group last called.
>=20
> Before the working group last call, we would like to check whether
> there is IPR on the document that needs to be disclosed.
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list. The docum=
ents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                             +46 767 72 92 13
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

From cpignata@cisco.com  Thu Jul 26 07:34:05 2012
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping
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I am not aware of any relevant IPR.

Thanks,

-- Carlos.

On Jul 26, 2012, at 6:19 AM, Loa Andersson wrote:

> Working Group and authors;
>=20
> the authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping has
> asked that the draft is working group last called.
>=20
> Before the working group last call, we would like to check whether
> there is IPR on the document that needs to be disclosed.
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond =
to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list. The =
documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author =
or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of =
any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: =
loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                             +46 767 72 92 13
>=20


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Dear Yaacov Weingarten,=20

We found an issue below during the implementation:

According to the state transition definition in rfc6378,=20
when both local working path signal fail and remote working path signal =
fail, APS state will be local protection failure state.
then if local working path signal fail clear comes,=20
it will enter remote protection failure state and send NR request.
when in remote protection failure state, it will return to Normal when =
NR request is received.

Thus if both ends have working path signal fail clear at same/very-close =
time, then both ends will return Normal directly. That is no WTR state
In my opinion, this transition without WTR is not expected.

Please have a double check.
Look forward to your reply, thank you!

Best Regards=20
Feng Yingzhen=20
Nokia Siemens Networks Transport Systems (Shanghai) Ltd.=20
=C5=B5=BB=F9=D1=C7=CE=F7=C3=C5=D7=D3=CD=A8=D0=C5=BC=BC=CA=F5=A3=A8=B1=B1=BE=
=A9=A3=A9=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE=C9=CF=BA=A3=B7=D6=B9=AB=CB=BE
9/F, Building 89, 1122 North Qin Zhou Road, Shanghai 200233, China
=D6=D0=B9=FA=C9=CF=BA=A3=C7=D5=D6=DD=B1=B1=C2=B71122=BA=C589=BA=C5=C2=A57=
=C2=A5 200233=20
Office: +86-21-60855761=20
Email: ying.feng@nsn.com=20



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<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">Dear</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> Yaacov Weingarten, </FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">We found an issue below during the =
implementation:</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">According to the state transition definition in =
rfc6378, </FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">when both local working path signal fail and remote =
working path signal fail, APS state will be local protection failure =
state.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">then if local work</FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">ing =
path signal fail clear comes, </FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">it will enter remote protection failure state and send =
NR request.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">when in remote protection failure state, it will return =
to Normal when NR request is received.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">Thus if both ends have working path signal fail clear =
at s</FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">ame/very-close time, then both ends =
will return Normal directly. That is no WTR state</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">In my opinion, this transition without WTR is not =
expected.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">Please have a double check.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR ALIGN=3DJUSTIFY><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">Look forward to your reply, thank =
you!</FONT></SPAN></P>

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LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN =
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From: "Feng, Ying (NSN - CN/Shanghai)" <ying.feng@nsn.com>
To: "ext Yaacov Weingarten" <wyaacov@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] current state transition definiton cause returning Normal directly without WTR.
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Hi, Yaacov Weingarten,

=20

I am sorry not to give the detailed description in previous mail, after =
all it was found several months ago.=20

=20

I add another transition case in addition to yours, I believe this case =
cause the problem. Please have a check  whether my understanding is in =
accordance with the document. Thank you!

=20

Both A & Z are in PF:W:L

If A receives the local SFc it will transition into WTR state and begin =
transmitting a WTR message.

If Z receives the local SFc it will transition into WTR state and begin =
transmitting a WTR message.

=20

[branch point a]=20

When A receives the SF-W message from Z it stops the WTR timer and =
transitions to PF:W:R and transmits a NR message.

When Z receives the SF-W message from A it stops the WTR timer and =
transitions to PF:W:R and transmits a NR message.

(because it takes time for WTR message to arrive, previous SF-W works, =
if this, then transition above happens, that is both A and Z enter =
PF:W:R)

=20

When A receives the WTR message from Z it transitions into WTR state =
continuing to transmit the NR message.

When Z receives the WTR message from A it transitions into WTR state =
continuing to transmit the NR message.

=20

=20

When A receives the NR message from Z it transitions into Normal State =
and continues to transmit the NR message.

When Z receives the NR message from A it transitions into Normal State =
and continues to transmit the NR message.

=20

=20

Best Regards=20
Feng Yingzhen=20

Nokia Siemens Networks Transport Systems (Shanghai) Ltd.=20

=C5=B5=BB=F9=D1=C7=CE=F7=C3=C5=D7=D3=CD=A8=D0=C5=BC=BC=CA=F5=A3=A8=B1=B1=BE=
=A9=A3=A9=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE=C9=CF=BA=A3=B7=D6=B9=AB=CB=BE

9/F, Building 89, 1122 North Qin Zhou Road, Shanghai 200233, China

=D6=D0=B9=FA=C9=CF=BA=A3=C7=D5=D6=DD=B1=B1=C2=B71122=BA=C589=BA=C5=C2=A57=
=C2=A5 200233=20

Office: +86-21-60855761=20
Email: ying.feng@nsn.com=20

=20

From: ext Yaacov Weingarten [mailto:wyaacov@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:47 PM
To: Feng, Ying (NSN - CN/Shanghai)
Cc: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon); Zhao, Peng (NSN - =
CN/Shanghai); Ma, Kai 1. (NSN - CN/Shanghai); Doolan, Paul (NSN - =
US/Irving); MPLS@ietf.org
Subject: Re: current state transition definiton cause returning Normal =
directly without WTR.

=20

Hi,

=20

I have a slight problem understanding your scenario. =20

=20

Based on my reading of the state machine (as described in the Appendix, =
but I am sure that the document description is the same) the folloeing =
should be the scenario:

=20

Both A & Z are in PF:W:L

If A receives the local SFc it will transition into WTR state and begin =
transmitting a WTR message.

[branch point a] When A receives the SF-W message from Z it stops the =
WTR timer and transitions to PF:W:R and transmits a NR message.

Meanwhile, Z received the local SFc and transitions into WTR state and =
begins transmitting the WTR message.

As long as the WTR timer is running at Z, Z will ignore the NR message =
from A

When A receives the WTR message from Z it transitions into WTR state =
continuing to transmit the NR message.

=20

Finally, when the WTR timer expires, Z transits into Normal state and =
begins to transmit the NR message

When A receives the NR message it transits into Normal state and =
continues to transmit the NR message.

=20

If at [branch point a] A does not receive a SF-W message, because Z has =
already transitioned into WTR state and instead A receives a remote WTR =
message while in WTR state it will be ignored=20

Eventually, A's WTR timer will expire and begin transmitting the NR =
message until it receives a NR from Z

The same will happen at Z and when both receive the NR message from the =
other endpoint they transition into Normal state.

=20

=20

In any case the WTR state is entered in both scenarios.  Assuming of =
course that the network is configured for revertive action.  If in =
non-revertive configuration then a similar scenario will be played =
through the DNR state.

=20

Can you explain where you are having difficulty?

=20

Hope this helps,

yaacov weingarten

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Feng, Ying (NSN - CN/Shanghai) =
<ying.feng@nsn.com> wrote:

Dear Yaacov Weingarten,=20

We found an issue below during the implementation:

According to the state transition definition in rfc6378,=20

when both local working path signal fail and remote working path signal =
fail, APS state will be local protection failure state.

then if local working path signal fail clear comes,=20

it will enter remote protection failure state and send NR request.

when in remote protection failure state, it will return to Normal when =
NR request is received.

Thus if both ends have working path signal fail clear at same/very-close =
time, then both ends will return Normal directly. That is no WTR state

In my opinion, this transition without WTR is not expected.

Please have a double check.

Look forward to your reply, thank you!

Best Regards
Feng Yingzhen=20

Nokia Siemens Networks Transport Systems (Shanghai) Ltd.=20

=C5=B5=BB=F9=D1=C7=CE=F7=C3=C5=D7=D3=CD=A8=D0=C5=BC=BC=CA=F5=A3=A8=B1=B1=BE=
=A9=A3=A9=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE=C9=CF=BA=A3=B7=D6=B9=AB=CB=BE

9/F, Building 89, 1122 North Qin Zhou Road, Shanghai 200233, China

=D6=D0=B9=FA=C9=CF=BA=A3=C7=D5=D6=DD=B1=B1=C2=B71122=BA=C589=BA=C5=C2=A57=
=C2=A5 200233=20

Office: +86-21-60855761
Email: ying.feng@nsn.com <mailto:ying.feng@nsn.com> =20

=20


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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi, Yaacov Weingarten,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I am sorry not to give the detailed description in previous mail, =
after all it was found several months ago. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I add another transition case in addition to yours, I believe this =
case cause the problem. Please have a check &nbsp;whether my =
understanding is in accordance with the document. Thank =
you!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Both A &amp; Z are in PF:W:L<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If A receives the local SFc it will =
transition into WTR state and begin transmitting a WTR =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:red'>If Z receives the local SFc it will transition into =
WTR state and begin transmitting a WTR message.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>[branch point a] =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>When A =
receives the SF-W message from Z it stops the WTR timer and transitions =
to PF:W:R and transmits a NR message.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:red'>When Z receives =
the SF-W message from A it stops the WTR timer and transitions to PF:W:R =
and transmits a NR message.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#0070C0'>(because it =
takes time for WTR message to arrive, previous SF-W works, if this, then =
transition above happens, that is both A and Z enter =
PF:W:R)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>When A receives the WTR message from Z it transitions into =
WTR state continuing to transmit the NR message.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:red'>When Z receives =
the WTR message from A it transitions into WTR state continuing to =
transmit the NR message.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>When A receives the NR message from Z it transitions into =
Normal State and continues to transmit the NR =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:red'>When Z receives the NR message from A it transitions =
into Normal State and continues to transmit the NR =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Best =
Regards</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'> =
<br></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Feng Yingzhen</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Nokia Siemens Networks Transport Systems (Shanghai) Ltd.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=C5=B5=BB=F9=D1=C7=CE=F7=C3=C5=D7=
=D3=CD=A8=D0=C5=BC=BC=CA=F5=A3=A8=B1=B1=BE=A9=A3=A9=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE=
=C9=CF=BA=A3=B7=D6=B9=AB=CB=BE</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>9/F, Building 89, 1122 North Qin Zhou Road, Shanghai 200233, =
China<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=D6=D0=B9=FA=C9=CF=BA=A3=C7=D5=D6=
=DD=B1=B1=C2=B7</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>1122</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=BA=C5</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>89</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=BA=C5=C2=A5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=C2=A5</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> 200233</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Office:&nbsp;+86-21-6085</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>576=
1</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> <br></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Email: ying.feng@nsn.com</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ext Yaacov =
Weingarten [mailto:wyaacov@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 24, =
2012 8:47 PM<br><b>To:</b> Feng, Ying (NSN - CN/Shanghai)<br><b>Cc:</b> =
Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon); Zhao, Peng (NSN - CN/Shanghai); =
Ma, Kai 1. (NSN - CN/Shanghai); Doolan, Paul (NSN - US/Irving); =
MPLS@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: current state transition definiton =
cause returning Normal directly without =
WTR.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I have a slight problem =
understanding your scenario. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Based on my reading of the state =
machine (as described in the Appendix, but I am sure that the document =
description is the same) the folloeing should be the =
scenario:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Both A &amp; Z are in =
PF:W:L<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>If A receives the local SFc it will transition into WTR =
state and begin transmitting a WTR =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>[branch point a] When A receives the SF-W message from Z it =
stops the WTR timer and transitions to PF:W:R and transmits a NR =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Meanwhile, Z received the local SFc and transitions into =
WTR state and begins transmitting the WTR =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>As long as the WTR timer is running at Z, Z will ignore the =
NR message from A<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>When A receives the WTR message =
from Z it transitions into WTR state continuing to transmit the NR =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Finally, when the WTR timer =
expires, Z transits into Normal state and begins to transmit the NR =
message<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>When A receives the NR message it transits into Normal =
state and continues to transmit the NR =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If at [branch point a] A does not =
receive a SF-W message, because Z has already transitioned into WTR =
state and instead A receives a remote WTR message while in WTR state it =
will be ignored&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Eventually, A's WTR timer will =
expire and begin transmitting the NR message until it receives a NR from =
Z<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The same will happen at Z and when both receive the NR =
message from the other endpoint they transition into Normal =
state.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>In any case the WTR state is =
entered in both scenarios. &nbsp;Assuming of course that the network is =
configured for revertive action. &nbsp;If in non-revertive configuration =
then a similar scenario will be played through the DNR =
state.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Can you explain where you are =
having difficulty?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hope this =
helps,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>yaacov =
weingarten<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Feng, Ying (NSN - =
CN/Shanghai) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ying.feng@nsn.com" =
target=3D"_blank">ying.feng@nsn.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Dear Yaacov Weingarten, =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>We found an issue below =
during the implementation:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>According to the state =
transition definition in rfc6378, </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>when both local working =
path signal fail and remote working path signal fail, APS state will be =
local protection failure state.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>then if local working path =
signal fail clear comes, </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>it will enter remote =
protection failure state and send NR request.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>when in remote protection =
failure state, it will return to Normal when NR request is =
received.</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thus if both =
ends have working path signal fail clear at same/very-close time, then =
both ends will return Normal directly. That is no WTR state</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In my opinion, this =
transition without WTR is not expected.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Please have a double =
check.</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Look forward =
to your reply, thank you!</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US>Best =
Regards<br>Feng Yingzhen <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Nokia Siemens Networks =
Transport Systems (Shanghai) Ltd. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p>=C5=B5=BB=F9=D1=C7=CE=F7=C3=C5=D7=D3=
=CD=A8=D0=C5=BC=BC=CA=F5=A3=A8=B1=B1=BE=A9=A3=A9=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE=C9=
=CF=BA=A3=B7=D6=B9=AB=CB=BE<span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>9/F, Building 89, 1122 =
North Qin Zhou Road, Shanghai 200233, China</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p>=D6=D0=B9=FA=C9=CF=BA=A3=C7=D5=D6=DD=
=B1=B1=C2=B7<span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1122</span>=BA=C5<span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>89</span>=BA=C5=C2=A5<span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>7</span>=C2=A5<span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> 200233 =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Office:&nbsp;+86-21-6085</sp=
an><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>5761</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>Email:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <a href=3D"mailto:ying.feng@nsn.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ying.feng@nsn.com</span></a>=
</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>
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From: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "alto@ietf.org" <alto@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:05:18 -0400
Thread-Topic: Interface to the Internet Routing System (IRS) Discussion List Created
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Cc: "wardd@cisco.com" <wardd@cisco.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@juniper.net>
Subject: [mpls] Interface to the Internet Routing System (IRS) Discussion List Created
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We have created a non-WG mailing list to discuss IRS.

The purpose of the list:

This list is for the discussion of an interface to the routing system (IRS)=
 that allows applications to rapidly and dynamically install routing state =
into routers, and to learn sufficient information from routers to make time=
ly, data-based decisions about what routing state to specify. Such an inter=
face would facilitate control and diagnosis of the routing infrastructure, =
as well as enabling sophisticated applications to be built on top of today'=
s routed networks.  The IRS is conceived as a programmatic, streaming inter=
face for transferring state into and out of the Internet's routing system, =
recognizing that the routing system and a router's OS provide useful mechan=
isms that applications could harness to accomplish application-level goals.=
  A fundamental component of the IRS is a clear data model that defines the=
 semantics of the information that can be written and read.
An initial framework document for IRS is available here:

http://www.lucidvision.com/draft-ward-irs-framework-00.txt

To subscribe, please visit the following:

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss




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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping
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From koike.yoshinori@lab.ntt.co.jp  Fri Jul 27 05:27:15 2012
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Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:28:16 +0900
From: Yoshinori Koike <koike.yoshinori@lab.ntt.co.jp>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
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Hello Yacoov and Mr. Osborne,

Thank you very much for preparing the draft liaison to ITU-T.

I'm sorry for these late questions, but I have a few questions for 
clarification on the draft liaison.

Q1) According to the item 1, it is written that the priority order "FS 
over SF-P" was defined also for consistency with the IETF Recovery 
terminology in RFC 4427. Could you be more specific about which part of 
the document can be referred, please?

I have checked RFC4427 and I thought it might refer to the following 
part, but if "command" means internal command(not external command), it 
may imply that SF-P(internal command) could be prioritized.

--------------
D. Forced switch-over for normal traffic:

A switch-over action, initiated externally, that switches normal
traffic to the recovery LSP/span, unless an equal or higher priority
switch-over command is in effect.
---------------

Q2) Regarding item 1, there is a description that 'we note that in PSC 
the FS can be reverted provided one of the paths is active'. Could you 
explain more details about the meaning of this sentence, please? Does 
this mean that, for example, SF-P(with a working path is active) 
overrides FS depending on an implementation, which isn't compliant with 
the priority order of PSC?

Q3) Regarding the description in item 2, 'This feature may be used for 
future optimizations by different implementations.', could you be more 
specific about this sentence, please? I would like to know what kind of 
optimization will be achieved and how differently PSC will be implemented.

Q4) Regarding the description 'because it was felt that this be best 
specified in a management document' in item 6, does the "a management 
document" include both characteristics of equipment functional blocks 
and equipment management aspect?

Just a very minor comment is, regarding Annex B of RFC6378, it is 
written on page 43 actually, although the table of contents point to 
page 44.

Thank you in advance.

Best regards,

Yoshinori


(2012/07/17 20:25), Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> A few weeks ago the working group chairs asked for volunteers to do
> a first spin on a response to the liaison "Revision of Recommendation
> ITU-T G.8131 – Linear protection switching for MPLS-TP networks"
> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1162/).
>
> Thanks to Yacoov W and Eric O who stepped and did most of the work,
> thanks also to people who sent comments and advices.
>
> Included is a proposed response to the liaison.
>
> Please send comments on the proposal to the MPLS working group mailing
> list (mpls@ietf.org) July 26th the latest.
>
> /Loa
> (MPLS WG co-chair)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>


-- 
Yoshinori Koike
koike.yoshinori@lab.ntt.co.jp


From loa@pi.nu  Fri Jul 27 06:50:43 2012
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Cc: draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp@tools.ietf.org, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
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Working Group and authors;

The wg chair are nearly ready to issue a poll to accept
draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp as a working group document, but before
we do so we need to make an IPR poll

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
has been received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

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Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 19:24:19 +0530
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From: Manav Bhatia <manavbhatia@gmail.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
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Hi Loa,

There is no IPR on my side.

Cheers, Manav

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 7:20 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
> Working Group and authors;
>
> The wg chair are nearly ready to issue a poll to accept
> draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp as a working group document, but before
> we do so we need to make an IPR poll
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp?
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13
> _______________________________________________
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> mpls@ietf.org
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From hejia@huawei.com  Fri Jul 27 07:10:37 2012
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From: Hejia <hejia@huawei.com>
To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "daniel@olddog.co.uk" <daniel@olddog.co.uk>, "stbryant@cisco.com" <stbryant@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "George Swallow (swallow)" <swallow@cisco.com>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>, "vishwas.manral@hp.com" <vishwas.manral@hp.com>,  "dave.mcdysan@verizon.com" <dave.mcdysan@verizon.com>, "andrew.g.malis@verizon.com" <andrew.g.malis@verizon.com>, "spencer.giacalone@thomsonreuters.com" <spencer.giacalone@thomsonreuters.com>, "malcolm.betts@zte.com.cn" <malcolm.betts@zte.com.cn>, "wang.qilei@zte.com.cn" <wang.qilei@zte.com.cn>,  John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-te-framework
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<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I have rev=
iewed draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-te-framework-05 and have the following com=
ments:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Is t=
he document coherent</span></u></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">It needs m=
ore work. The content is not so tightly organized which makes it hard to fo=
llow. For example:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">- in Secti=
on 2, if I understand correctly, Sections 2.1, 2.4 and 2.5 are general requ=
irements while Sections 2.2 and 2.3 are special cases which
 impose special requirements in addition to Sections 2.1, 2.4 and 2.5. But =
it is not easy to figure this out according to the current layout and descr=
iption.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">- Sections=
 3,4,5 seem to be further considerations of Section 2.4. But this is not ex=
plicitly expressed. The relationship between &quot;end-to-end&quot;
 and &quot;accumulation&quot; is not clear.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">- It is su=
ggested to change the &quot;intended status&quot; into &quot;Informational&=
quot; instead of &quot;Standards Track&quot;. My understanding is that a fr=
amework draft
 is typically informational.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Is i=
t useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), =
and is the document technically sound?<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I believe =
that the very basic idea in this document is nice but the details need to b=
e revisited. I would also like to learn other's opinions.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In the Abs=
tract it is claimed to &quot;make a accurate end-to-end latency and loss pr=
ediction before a path is established.&quot; However, the discussion
 in the draft is based on several assumptions. How to evaluate &quot;accura=
te&quot; in this case? For example in Sections 3,4,5, it is pointed out tha=
t assumptions based on &quot;sum&quot; is used though it may not be perfect=
 but the draft doesn't give convincing reasons/proof
 and use cases.&nbsp; Besides, node latency is ignored for simplicity in th=
e draft without setting specific restrictions. Just by saying &quot;a small=
 factor&quot; is ambiguous. In fact whether the node latency could be ignor=
ed depends on a lot of factors, e.g. the number
 of nodes, the length of fiber, the processing and buffer size in the node,=
 etc. <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Another im=
portant issue is scalability which IMHO needs more analysis.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Is t=
he document ready to be considered for WG adoption?<o:p></o:p></span></u></=
b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">It is sugg=
ested to solve the issues above first before further consideration for WG a=
doption.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Nits=
<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[draft-iet=
f-mpls-loss-delay] is now RFC 6374. RFC 6374 defines delay measurement no m=
atter it is extremely low or not. The description in the introduction
 part &quot;Extremely low latency measurements for MPLS LSP tunnels are def=
ined in [draft-ietf-mpls-loss-delay]&quot; is confusing.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Jia<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Ross Ca=
llon [mailto:rcallon@juniper.net]
<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2012</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">7</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">13</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 0:46<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> daniel@olddog.co.uk; stbryant@cisco.com; Hejia<br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Loa Andersson; George Swallow (swallow); Ross Callon; Martin Vigoureux; f=
u.xihua@zte.com.cn; vishwas.manral@hp.com; dave.mcdysan@verizon.com; andrew=
.g.malis@verizon.com; spencer.giacalone@thomsonreuters.com;
 malcolm.betts@zte.com.cn; wang.qilei@zte.com.cn; John E Drake<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> MPLS-RT review of draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-te-framework<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">Daniel, Stewart, and Jia;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers fo=
r<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-te-framework<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">Stewart: You are not a normal member of the review team. W=
e are hoping that
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">you can do a review since you are co-author of RFC 6374, a=
nd the WG chairs
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">are specifically interested in understanding the relations=
hip between
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-te-framework and RFC 6374. If y=
ou are not able
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">to do this review at this time (do AD=A1=AFs have somethin=
g else to do prior to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">IETF meetings?) then let us know and we will assign a diff=
erent reviewer.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">Note to authors: You have been CC=A1=AFd on this email so =
that you can know that
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">this review is going on. However, please do not review you=
r own document.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent=
, is it useful<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">(ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational net=
works), and is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">the document technically sound?&nbsp; We are interested in=
 knowing whether the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it=
 doesn=A1=AFt have to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">be perfect at this point, but should be a good start).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chai=
rs and secretary,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">and CC=A1=AFd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, com=
ments may be sent
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">privately to only the WG chairs.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, pr=
ior to the IETF
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">meeting in Vancouver)?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:Consolas">Thanks, Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">(as MPLS WG chair)</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Daniel King" <daniel@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Ross Callon'" <rcallon@juniper.net>, <stbryant@cisco.com>, <hejia@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Reminder; RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-te-framework
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Hi All, 

Please find my review of draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-te-framework-05. 

General Comments

- The document would benefit from a Terminology/Acronym section. Some lesser
known acronyms are used and not expanded on. 
- We already have a set of existing tools to measure and report network
conditions (including RFC6374). It may be worth summarizing these in the
introduction to help identify gaps and provide further motivation for the
work.    
- Please check the use of capitals for section titles. Use them or do not
use them, just be consistent for all sections names.
- Check the use of Requirements Language in the document, it seems
inconsistent for some of the requirements. 
- The document is tough to read, perhaps down to the number of authors
providing sections of text. The document would benefit from 1-2 editors who
would interpret and translate text and requirements from the other authors,
and improve the readability of the document. 
- Management and Operational considerations/requirements also need to be
discussed and documented. 
- At least one requirement seems to mandate the development of an algorithm,
which might be vendor specific factor.   

1. What is the intention of this document? Currently, it is a combination of
a Framework, Requirements with Solution details. This is very confusing for
the reader and generally not how to write a good IETF document. I think the
authors should remove protocol and procedure details and focusing on
describing the technical aspects of the applications and requirements.
Thereby allowing a separate solution(s) documents to be created (detailing
measurement attributes, message format, procedures, operation, et al) ,
without biasing the solution or confusing the reader.  This would also allow
further solution documents to be spun out into other working groups, PCE
springs to mind when I read the draft. Of course, no point in trying to
bring PCEP extensions to the PCE WG until the dependent protocol extensions
have been agreed and are reasonably stable.   

2. Abstract. Less is more, the abstract should briefly and succinctly
summarize the document. For instance, assuming this will be the requirements
document (Intended Status should also be changed to Informational, from
Standards Track:

Deployment and usage of cloud based applications and services that use an
underlying MPLS network are expanding, the distances between the user and
the application are increasing, and applications are extremely sensitive to
delay and packet loss. Existing mechanisms exist to measure and monitor MPLS
path performance metrics for packet loss and delay, but only after the path
has been setup. It would be beneficial for MPLS network and potential path
information to be measured for the computation of services used to carry
cloud based and delay sensitive applications. 

This document provides a technical overview of application and requirements
to enable the efficient and accurate measurement of the MPLS network and
allow new performance metrics to be reported and used in the computation of
MPLS services. 

3. Introduction

Too short, I think it should provide a clearer background and motivation for
the document. A subsection defining the scope of the document would also be
beneficial. 

4. Architecture Requirements 

Perhaps this section would benefit if the authors provide an application
summary and bullet list of requirements (R1, R2, R3, etc.) this would help a
solution document clearly define which requirements it meets/solves. Also if
a vendor implements they can clearly state full compliance, or partial
compliance, a valid comment for a separate solution(s) documents as well. 

The requirements are rather broad, are they all really needed? It seems some
may be corner-cases. Again by having separate solution documents it would
allow for a solution to be developed to solve general requirements
(progressed as Standards Track) and then small corner-case solutions
(progressed as Experimental). 

The document makes far too many assumptions regarding the ability of
devices/nodes to have the capability to measure its own performance and
reported. Also the document suddenly jumps from defining requirements to
report MPLS network performance for new services, to mandating that once a
service has been setup it should be rerouted " when the end-to-end metrics
changes in a way it becomes more then desired". I think my advice here is to
keep things simple and try to focus on a specific set of use cases to solve
customers' existing problems.  

Summary

Once you decode the document it's an interesting read and I understand the
general motivation behind the work, although the uses cases would benefit
from further evidence. Currently the document is not ready for working
adoption. The document should look to clearly state its intention as a
requirements document. The current use cases need to be developed, general
uses cases expanded further and clarified, and special uses cases removed or
clearly separated. 

If it helps I would be happy to provide further assistance or clarifications
as to my comments to the authors either on or off the list. 

Br, Dan. 


From venkat.mahalingams@gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 16:00:18 2012
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Cc: "draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments on draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00
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John,

Thanks for your comments. Please find below the response inlined with
the tag [VM].

Regards,
Venkat.

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 10:37 AM, John Salloway
<John.Salloway@metaswitch.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I have a couple of comments on draft-ietf-bfd-mpls-mib-00.
>
>
>
> 1.      The bfdMplsSessTable contains a pointer to the service associated
> with this BFD session.  I would have thought it would be useful to have a
> link in the other direction (for example a row pointer or session index in
> the mplsTunnelEntry or mplsTunnelExtEntry to identify the BFD session).  I
> can see no simple way to find the BFD Session that is monitoring the MPLS
> Tunnel.
>
[VM] Agree. I'll discuss with other authors and conclude on this.
>
> 2.      The service pointer (bfdMplsSessMapPointer) points to a different
> table depending for MPLS-TE tunnels and MPLS-TP tunnels.  For MPLS-TE
> Tunnels, this points to an entry in the mplsTunnelTable.  For MPLS-TP
> tunnels, it points to an entry in the mplsOamIdMeTable.  Would it not be
> simpler for it to point to an mplsTunnelEntry in both cases?
>
[VM] For MPLS-TP case also, we can point to mplsTunnelTable, there is
no restriction enforced in this MIB but in order to satisfy the OAM
requirements of MPLS-TP, it is expected to point to mplsOamIdMeTable.
>
> Have I missed something?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> John Salloway

From venkat.mahalingams@gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 16:04:48 2012
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib-04
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John,

Thanks for your comments. Please find below the response inlined with
the tag [VM].

Regards,
Venkat.

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 10:37 AM, John Salloway
<John.Salloway@metaswitch.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I have a couple of comments on the mplsTunnelExtTable in
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib-04.txt
>
>
>
> 1.      The text describes the tunnel as adding MPLS-TP tunnel specific
> additional objects; however, it may also be appropriate to identify the
> reverse direction tunnel for MPLS-TE.   The table name is correct for non
> MPLS-TP tunnel specific objects, so can we change the description?
>
[VM] Sure.
>
> 2.      There are currently two methods for specifying the opposite
> direction LSP: one using a row pointer and the other using a subset of the
> mplsTunnelTable indices.  This is a potential source of confusion, so I
> suggest that the table is redefined to use a single method, for example by
> specifying all of the indices of the mplsTunnelEntry for the opposite
> direction LSP.
>
[VM] Agree. We will discuss internally and update the draft accordingly.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> John Salloway

From loa@pi.nu  Sat Jul 28 09:54:39 2012
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Subject: [mpls] Slides for the MPLS wg meeting in Vancouver
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Working Group,

this mail might be redundant. We will need to have slides sent to the
wg co-chairs and wg secretary on Sunday at 8pm (Vancouver time) if you
have a presentation slot at the Monday mpls wg meeting.

Martin, might have reminded earlier, but I have not seen any mail going
out.

Please make sure that we have your slides.

/Loa
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

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Subject: [mpls] IETF84 - MPLS Sessions - Updates to Agenda
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all,

just a heads-up so that you check the latest agenda:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/agenda/agenda-84-mpls

-m

From martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com  Sat Jul 28 14:10:21 2012
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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 23:10:13 +0200
From: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Subject: [mpls] IETF 84 - MPLS Sessions - Time to send slides
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All,

the agenda is available here:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/agenda/agenda-84-mpls

Please have a look at it.

As Loa indicated, it is now time for the speakers to send, to me and the 
co-chairs, their slides.
Please send them *no later* than Sunday 8pm Vancouver time

Failure to provide me with the slides in time, will most likely lead to
the move of your slot at the end of the agenda.

martin

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Session I: Monday 0900-1130
On site participation: Regency C

Remote participation:
       Webex link:
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?ED=156536752&UID=1260371097&PW=NOWMzMjA4YTgz&RT=MiM0
       Webex Meeting Number: 647 529 421
       Audio stream: http://ietf84streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf845.m3u
       Chat room: mpls@jabber.ietf.org


Session II: Friday 09:00-11:00
On site participation: Georgia B

Remote participation:
       Webex link:
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?ED=156537102&UID=1260372082&PW=NZWIzMmZhY2E2&RT=MiM0
       Webex Meeting Number: 641 435 045
       Audio stream: http://ietf84streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf842.m3u
       Chat room: mpls@jabber.ietf.org


MPLS WG Agenda, presentations and minutes:
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mpls/agenda?item=agenda-84-mpls.html
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/84/materials.html

From thomas.morin@orange.com  Sat Jul 28 21:22:08 2012
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From: <thomas.morin@orange.com>
To: Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>
Thread-Topic: draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "ice@cisco.com" <ice@cisco.com>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-fuxh-mpls-delay-loss-te-framework
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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] wg last call draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03
Thread-Index: AQHNXqL32JEvTjjhMU+WLeQY1lNuL5c4OeoAgAklGj0=
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 04:58:46 +0000
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, MPLS-TP ad hoc team <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>, "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] wg last call draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03
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Hi,=0A=
=0A=
I just reviewed the ICC identifier draft, overall, the draft is well writte=
n. =0A=
=0A=
But I found that the definition of PW_Path_ID is not aligned with the defin=
ition in RFC6370. In the draft, the PW_Path_ID is based the FEC 128 that us=
es Group ID+PW ID to identify a PW, while in RFC6370, the PW_Path_ID is bas=
ed on FEC 129 that use AGI+AII to identify a PW. Since only FEC 129 can sat=
isfy the requirement of MPLS-TP, IMHO, the authors need to redefine the PW_=
Path_ID to align with the definition in RFC6370.=0A=
=0A=
In addition, to support ICC based FEC 129, there may need to define a new A=
II(ICC based AII, AII=3DGlobal_ID+AC_ID), here is a reference (http://tools=
.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-pwe3-mpls-tp-aii-icc-01) .=0A=
=0A=
Best regards,=0A=
Mach=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mpls-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Loa Anders=
son [loa@pi.nu]=0A=
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:06=0A=
To: mpls@ietf.org=0A=
Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu=
-t-identifiers@tools.ietf.org=0A=
Subject: Re: [mpls] wg last call draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03=0A=
=0A=
Working Group,=0A=
=0A=
this working group last call were supposed to end on July 22nd.=0A=
=0A=
However, we have not had one single comment on the draft during=0A=
the last call period.=0A=
=0A=
We are therefore extending the wg last call until August 10, 2012.=0A=
=0A=
We have also selected some members of the of the MPLS Review Team=0A=
whom we asked to review the draft and respond during the extended=0A=
working group last=0A=
call period.=0A=
=0A=
/Loa=0A=
for the MPLS wG co-charis=0A=
=0A=
On 2012-07-10 15:50, Loa Andersson wrote:=0A=
> Working Group,=0A=
>=0A=
> this is to start a working group last call on=0A=
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03.=0A=
>=0A=
> Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).=0A=
>=0A=
> We have done an IPR poll among the authors and on the mpls wg mailing=0A=
> list. All the authors has responded that they are not aware any IPR=0A=
> claims on this document.=0A=
>=0A=
> No IPR disclosures has been filed against this document.=0A=
>=0A=
> This working group last call would normally end July 22, 2012, but=0A=
> since we at that time are in the publication cut-off period prior to=0A=
> the Vancouver meeting this wg last call ends when the cut-off is=0A=
> lifted.=0A=
>=0A=
> /Loa=0A=
> (for the wg co-chairs)=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
=0A=
--=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com=0A=
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu=0A=
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13=0A=
                                              +46 767 72 92 13=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
mpls mailing list=0A=
mpls@ietf.org=0A=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls=0A=

From Frederic.Jounay@orange.ch  Mon Jul 30 01:41:32 2012
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jounay_Fr=E9d=E9ric?= <Frederic.Jounay@orange.ch>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 10:41:29 +0200
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp
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Hi Loa,

No IPR on my side

Regards,
Fred


On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 7:20 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
> Working Group and authors;
>
> The wg chair are nearly ready to issue a poll to accept=20
> draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp as a working group document, but=20
> before we do so we need to make an IPR poll
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to=20
> draft-jjb-mpls-rsvp-te-hsmp-lsp?
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=20
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond=20
> to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any=20
> relevant IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a=20
> response has been received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author=20
> or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware=20
> of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules=
.
>
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                              +46 767 72 92 13=20
> _______________________________________________
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From ice@cisco.com  Mon Jul 30 05:32:04 2012
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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Hi Thomas,

> Basically, for *each* P2MP LSP (eg. one per-PE per VPN) your proposal =
adds a (co-routed) path back to each PE, but this offer no gain of state =
on P-routers, since in a typical scenario unicast LDP is already here, =
and even assuming it is not, the cost of adding it is minimal and =
(contrary to HSMP LSP) independent of the number of VPNs.
>=20
> I still don't see where the gain is=85

A nice property of the HSMP-LSP is that the path to the root follows the =
the nodes in the path of the HSMP-LSP up to the root. That can't be =
guaranteed in case you use a P2P LSP to the root. Also, if you use a P2P =
LSP, you need an additional label to identify P2MP LSP it has to be =
associated with.

So in general I think the HSMP-LSP is useful technology that we should =
standardize. I'm pretty sure other use-cases will be developed over =
time.

Thx,

Ice.


>=20
> -Thomas
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> So, I would say that the draft is in a good shape for being =
considered
>> for adoption. In my own view, the use cases would need to be more
>> strongly backed and/or more detailed (and if necessary, the claims of
>> applicability reduced) but discussing this is a natural part of a
>> debate on adoption.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> -Thomas
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> 2012-07-12, Ross Callon:
>>> Thomas, Ravi, Mach;
>>>=20
>>> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
>>> draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
>>>=20
>>> Note to authors: You have been CC=92d on this email so that you can
>>> know that this review is going on. However, please do not review =
your
>>> own document.
>>> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
>>> useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational
>>> networks), and is the document technically sound?  We are interested
>>> in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG
>>> adoption (ie, it doesn=92t have to be perfect at this point, but =
should
>>> be a good start).
>>> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
>>> secretary, and CC=92d to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, =
comments
>>> may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
>>>=20
>>> Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to the
>>> IETF meeting in Vancouver)?
>>>=20
>>> Thanks, Ross
>>> (as MPLS WG chair)
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> =
__________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________________________________
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>=20


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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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--=_alternative 004541F848257A4B_=--


From zzhang@juniper.net  Mon Jul 30 09:29:00 2012
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: IJsbrand Wijnands <ice@cisco.com>, "<thomas.morin@orange.com>" <thomas.morin@orange.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:27:53 -0400
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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Ice,

I want to confirm my understanding:

- Use cases 2.1 (time sync) and 2.2 (igmp) are really use cases for vpms an=
d could/should be removed from this spec

- hsmp is mostly useful for vpms and not really needed for vpls as Thomas s=
aid

About your comments in the below email:

- why is it important for the return path to be the same?
- Associating a separate p2p with a p2mp (if not using hsmp) is more (if no=
t only) useful to vpms than vpls?

Thanks.
Jeffrey

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IJsbrand Wijnands [mailto:ice@cisco.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 7:40 AM
> To: <thomas.morin@orange.com>
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Lizhong Jin; Ross Callon
> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
>=20
> Hi Thomas,
>=20
> > Basically, for *each* P2MP LSP (eg. one per-PE per VPN) your proposal
> adds a (co-routed) path back to each PE, but this offer no gain of
> state on P-routers, since in a typical scenario unicast LDP is already
> here, and even assuming it is not, the cost of adding it is minimal and
> (contrary to HSMP LSP) independent of the number of VPNs.
> >
> > I still don't see where the gain is...
>=20
> A nice property of the HSMP-LSP is that the path to the root follows
> the the nodes in the path of the HSMP-LSP up to the root. That can't be
> guaranteed in case you use a P2P LSP to the root. Also, if you use a
> P2P LSP, you need an additional label to identify P2MP LSP it has to be
> associated with.
>=20
> So in general I think the HSMP-LSP is useful technology that we should
> standardize. I'm pretty sure other use-cases will be developed over
> time.
>=20
> Thx,
>=20
> Ice.
>=20
>=20
> >
> > -Thomas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> So, I would say that the draft is in a good shape for being
> considered
> >> for adoption. In my own view, the use cases would need to be more
> >> strongly backed and/or more detailed (and if necessary, the claims
> of
> >> applicability reduced) but discussing this is a natural part of a
> >> debate on adoption.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> -Thomas
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2012-07-12, Ross Callon:
> >>> Thomas, Ravi, Mach;
> >>>
> >>> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> >>> draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
> >>>
> >>> Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can
> >>> know that this review is going on. However, please do not review
> your
> >>> own document.
> >>> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
> >>> useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational
> >>> networks), and is the document technically sound?  We are
> interested
> >>> in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG
> >>> adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but
> should
> >>> be a good start).
> >>> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
> >>> secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary,
> comments
> >>> may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
> >>>
> >>> Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to
> the
> >>> IETF meeting in Vancouver)?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks, Ross
> >>> (as MPLS WG chair)
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> __________________________________________________
> >
> > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous
> avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les
> messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> > France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a
> ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
> >
> > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or
> privileged information that may be protected by law;
> > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender
> and delete this message and its attachments.
> > As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for
> messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
> > Thank you.
> >
>=20


From loa@pi.nu  Mon Jul 30 09:57:47 2012
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-signaling@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-signaling
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Working Group,

draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-signaling has fallen between the chairs
(no pun intended). Version -04 did go through working group last call
in October 2011. The working group last call was never formally closed, 
so the working last call is now formally closed.

The document has been updated according the comments in the working
group last call and is now in version -06.

The working group chairs are preparing a request for publication, but
before requesting publication we need to do an IPR poll.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-signaling?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
has been received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)


-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

From ice@cisco.com  Mon Jul 30 10:03:51 2012
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From: IJsbrand Wijnands <ice@cisco.com>
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To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
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Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "<thomas.morin@orange.com>" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, Lizhong Jin <lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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Hi Jeffrey,

> About your comments in the below email:
>=20
> - why is it important for the return path to be the same?

Besides what is documented in the draft, I think it has nice properties =
that will be useful going forward. I have idea's, but I'm not ready to =
disclose these at this time.

> - Associating a separate p2p with a p2mp (if not using hsmp) is more =
(if not only) useful to vpms than vpls?

I think so yes.

Thx,

Ice.

>=20
> Thanks.
> Jeffrey
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: IJsbrand Wijnands [mailto:ice@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 7:40 AM
>> To: <thomas.morin@orange.com>
>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Lizhong Jin; Ross Callon
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
>>=20
>> Hi Thomas,
>>=20
>>> Basically, for *each* P2MP LSP (eg. one per-PE per VPN) your =
proposal
>> adds a (co-routed) path back to each PE, but this offer no gain of
>> state on P-routers, since in a typical scenario unicast LDP is =
already
>> here, and even assuming it is not, the cost of adding it is minimal =
and
>> (contrary to HSMP LSP) independent of the number of VPNs.
>>>=20
>>> I still don't see where the gain is...
>>=20
>> A nice property of the HSMP-LSP is that the path to the root follows
>> the the nodes in the path of the HSMP-LSP up to the root. That can't =
be
>> guaranteed in case you use a P2P LSP to the root. Also, if you use a
>> P2P LSP, you need an additional label to identify P2MP LSP it has to =
be
>> associated with.
>>=20
>> So in general I think the HSMP-LSP is useful technology that we =
should
>> standardize. I'm pretty sure other use-cases will be developed over
>> time.
>>=20
>> Thx,
>>=20
>> Ice.
>>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -Thomas
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> So, I would say that the draft is in a good shape for being
>> considered
>>>> for adoption. In my own view, the use cases would need to be more
>>>> strongly backed and/or more detailed (and if necessary, the claims
>> of
>>>> applicability reduced) but discussing this is a natural part of a
>>>> debate on adoption.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>=20
>>>> -Thomas
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 2012-07-12, Ross Callon:
>>>>> Thomas, Ravi, Mach;
>>>>>=20
>>>>> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
>>>>> draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can
>>>>> know that this review is going on. However, please do not review
>> your
>>>>> own document.
>>>>> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
>>>>> useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational
>>>>> networks), and is the document technically sound?  We are
>> interested
>>>>> in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG
>>>>> adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but
>> should
>>>>> be a good start).
>>>>> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
>>>>> secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary,
>> comments
>>>>> may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to
>> the
>>>>> IETF meeting in Vancouver)?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thanks, Ross
>>>>> (as MPLS WG chair)
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>> =
_______________________________________________________________________
>> __________________________________________________
>>>=20
>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous
>> avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les
>> messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>>> France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a
>> ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>>>=20
>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or
>> privileged information that may be protected by law;
>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.
>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender
>> and delete this message and its attachments.
>>> As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for
>> messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
>>> Thank you.
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20


From xuxiaohu@huawei.com  Mon Jul 30 11:06:58 2012
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "erosen@cisco.com" <erosen@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments on MPLS-in-UDP
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Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:03:44 +0000
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<p>Hi Eric,</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for&nbsp;your comments during the WG session.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>As for MPLS-in-GRE or MPLS-in-L2TPv3, it requires P routers to be capabl=
e of performing hash calculations on the specific &quot;load-balancing fiel=
d&quot;&nbsp;contained in the encapsulating header (e.g., L2TPv3 session ID=
 field or GRE key field).&nbsp;Such requirement&nbsp;can
 not be met by some P routers which could only perform hash calulations on =
the five tuple of TCP/UDP packets. MPLS-in-UDP is only proposed to be used =
in such specific cases.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Any further comments are welcome.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>Xiaohu</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</body>
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From tnadeau@juniper.net  Mon Jul 30 11:23:51 2012
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From: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>
To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, "erosen@cisco.com" <erosen@cisco.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:22:31 -0400
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Comments on MPLS-in-UDP
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I agree with Eric's points made during the presentation. This seems to be a=
 solution looking for a problem.

--Tom


From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com<mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com>>
Date: Monday, July 30, 2012 11:03 AM
To: "erosen@cisco.com<mailto:erosen@cisco.com>" <erosen@cisco.com<mailto:er=
osen@cisco.com>>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: [mpls] Comments on MPLS-in-UDP


Hi Eric,



Thanks a lot for your comments during the WG session.



As for MPLS-in-GRE or MPLS-in-L2TPv3, it requires P routers to be capable o=
f performing hash calculations on the specific "load-balancing field" conta=
ined in the encapsulating header (e.g., L2TPv3 session ID field or GRE key =
field). Such requirement can not be met by some P routers which could only =
perform hash calulations on the five tuple of TCP/UDP packets. MPLS-in-UDP =
is only proposed to be used in such specific cases.



Any further comments are welcome.



Best regards,

Xiaohu



From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com  Mon Jul 30 18:00:18 2012
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: "draft-ali-mpls-inter-domain-p2mp-rsvp-te-lsp@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ali-mpls-inter-domain-p2mp-rsvp-te-lsp@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 21:00:08 -0400
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Dear All,
Please find my MPLS-RT comments on draft-ali-mpls-inter-domain-p2mp-rsvp-te=
-lsp-08 below:

*       Is the document coherent?
I found that terminology and identification for Re-merge Recording Request =
flag need improvement. At least once the flag seem to be referred as Re-mer=
ge Recording Flag. And several versions of capitalization and use of quotat=
ion marks appear throughout the document.
Document can benefit from tightening up and stricter use of RFC 2119 terms =
in sections 4.3 Signaling Procedure and 5.0 Reoptimization Signaling Proced=
ure. E.g. the last sentence of second paragraph in Section 4.3 "In this cas=
e, before the Resv message is sent to the upstream node, the node adds the =
RRO Attributes sub-object to the RRO and sets the "P2MP-TE Re-merge Recordi=
ng Request" Flag" not clear whether operations are MUST, SHOULD or merely C=
AN. I can suggest more similar places on- or off-line.
Then there's reference to path error 25 which, as I understand, Notify Erro=
r defined in RFC 3209.

*       Is it useful?
Document proposes solution to realistic, protocol-wise, scenarios. Though w=
ithout confirmation from network operator community it is rather difficult =
to conclude how real scenarios are and how helpful the proposed solution.

*       Is it technically sound?
As mentioned in the first bullet, normative language in sections 4.3 and 5 =
needs to be more definite.
Another technical aspect of proposed solution - generality. It might be ben=
eficial to look for solution of described scenarios as part of GMPLS, not o=
nly as MPLS-TE.

*       Is the document ready to be considered for WG adoption?
I think that input from network operators is needed.

Regards,
        Greg




--_000_FE60A4E52763E84B935532D7D9294FF13924D6CFCDEUSAACMS0715e_
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<head>
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>
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server">
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<font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"2">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Dear All,</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Please find my MPLS-RT <font face=3D"=
Arial, sans-serif">comments on draft-ali-mpls-inter-domain-p2mp-rsvp-te-lsp=
-08</font> below:<font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp; </font></font></di=
v>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 19pt; ">
<li>Is the document coherent?</li></ul>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">I foun=
d that terminology and identification for Re-merge Recording Request flag n=
eed improvement. At least once the flag seem to be referred as Re-merge Rec=
ording Flag. And several versions of
capitalization and use of quotation marks appear throughout the document.</=
font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Docume=
nt can benefit from tightening up and stricter use of RFC 2119 terms in sec=
tions 4.3 Signaling Procedure and 5.0 Reoptimization Signaling Procedure. E=
.g. the last sentence of second paragraph
in Section 4.3 &quot;In this case, before the Resv message is sent to the u=
pstream node, the node adds the RRO Attributes sub-object to the RRO and se=
ts the &quot;P2MP-TE Re-merge Recording Request&quot; Flag&quot; not clear =
whether operations are MUST, SHOULD or merely CAN. I
can suggest more similar places on- or off-line.</font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Then t=
here's reference to path error 25 which, as I understand, Notify Error defi=
ned in RFC 3209.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 19pt; ">
<li>Is it useful?&nbsp; </li></ul>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Docume=
nt proposes solution to realistic, protocol-wise, scenarios. Though without=
 confirmation from network operator community it is rather difficult to con=
clude how real scenarios are and how
helpful the proposed solution.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 19pt; ">
<font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">
<li>Is it technically sound?</li></font>
</ul>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">As men=
tioned in the first bullet, normative language in sections 4.3 and 5 needs =
to be more definite.</font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Anothe=
r technical aspect of proposed solution - generality. It might be beneficia=
l to look for solution of described scenarios as part of GMPLS, not only as=
 MPLS-TE.</font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;=
</font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 19pt; ">
<li>Is the document ready to be considered for WG adoption?</li></ul>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">I thin=
k that input from network operators is needed.</font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;=
</font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Regard=
s,</font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 19pt; "><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</font>
</body>
</html>

--_000_FE60A4E52763E84B935532D7D9294FF13924D6CFCDEUSAACMS0715e_--

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From: Lizhong Jin<lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
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"Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net> wrote 2012/07/31 00:27:53:

> Ice,
> 
> I want to confirm my understanding:
> 
> - Use cases 2.1 (time sync) and 2.2 (igmp) are really use cases for 
> vpms and could/should be removed from this spec
[Lizhong] VPMS is a service multiplexed to PSN tunnel. The time sync could 
be directly over PSN tunnel (HSMP LSP), see section 6.1 of 
draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-02. For the IGMP case, if the root node is 
IGMP querier, HSMP LSP instead of VPMS could be used. But as Thomas 
pointed, it is hard to provide redundancy.

> 
> - hsmp is mostly useful for vpms and not really needed for vpls as 
Thomas said
> 
> About your comments in the below email:
> 
> - why is it important for the return path to be the same?
> - Associating a separate p2p with a p2mp (if not using hsmp) is more
> (if not only) useful to vpms than vpls?
[Lizhong] I partly agree. And if we all agree, we could remove the VPLS 
use case.

Thanks
Lizhong

> 
> Thanks.
> Jeffrey
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: IJsbrand Wijnands [mailto:ice@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 7:40 AM
> > To: <thomas.morin@orange.com>
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Lizhong Jin; Ross Callon
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
> > 
> > Hi Thomas,
> > 
> > > Basically, for *each* P2MP LSP (eg. one per-PE per VPN) your 
proposal
> > adds a (co-routed) path back to each PE, but this offer no gain of
> > state on P-routers, since in a typical scenario unicast LDP is already
> > here, and even assuming it is not, the cost of adding it is minimal 
and
> > (contrary to HSMP LSP) independent of the number of VPNs.
> > >
> > > I still don't see where the gain is...
> > 
> > A nice property of the HSMP-LSP is that the path to the root follows
> > the the nodes in the path of the HSMP-LSP up to the root. That can't 
be
> > guaranteed in case you use a P2P LSP to the root. Also, if you use a
> > P2P LSP, you need an additional label to identify P2MP LSP it has to 
be
> > associated with.
> > 
> > So in general I think the HSMP-LSP is useful technology that we should
> > standardize. I'm pretty sure other use-cases will be developed over
> > time.
> > 
> > Thx,
> > 
> > Ice.
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > -Thomas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> So, I would say that the draft is in a good shape for being
> > considered
> > >> for adoption. In my own view, the use cases would need to be more
> > >> strongly backed and/or more detailed (and if necessary, the claims
> > of
> > >> applicability reduced) but discussing this is a natural part of a
> > >> debate on adoption.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> -Thomas
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 2012-07-12, Ross Callon:
> > >>> Thomas, Ravi, Mach;
> > >>>
> > >>> You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
> > >>> draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp
> > >>>
> > >>> Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can
> > >>> know that this review is going on. However, please do not review
> > your
> > >>> own document.
> > >>> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
> > >>> useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational
> > >>> networks), and is the document technically sound?  We are
> > interested
> > >>> in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG
> > >>> adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but
> > should
> > >>> be a good start).
> > >>> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
> > >>> secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary,
> > comments
> > >>> may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
> > >>>
> > >>> Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012 (ie, prior to
> > the
> > >>> IETF meeting in Vancouver)?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks, Ross
> > >>> (as MPLS WG chair)
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
_______________________________________________________________________
> > __________________________________________________
> > >
> > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
> > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous
> > avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les
> > messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> > > France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a
> > ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
> > >
> > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or
> > privileged information that may be protected by law;
> > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without 
authorisation.
> > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender
> > and delete this message and its attachments.
> > > As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for
> > messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > 
> 
> 

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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&quot;Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang&quot;
&lt;zzhang@juniper.net&gt; wrote 2012/07/31 00:27:53:<br>
<br>
&gt; Ice,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I want to confirm my understanding:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; - Use cases 2.1 (time sync) and 2.2 (igmp) are really use cases for
<br>
&gt; vpms and could/should be removed from this spec</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">[Lizhong] VPMS is a service multiplexed
to PSN tunnel. The time sync could be directly over PSN tunnel (HSMP LSP),
see section 6.1 of draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-02. For the IGMP case,
if the root node is IGMP querier, HSMP LSP instead of VPMS could be used.
But as Thomas pointed, it is hard to provide redundancy.<br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&gt; <br>
&gt; - hsmp is mostly useful for vpms and not really needed for vpls as
Thomas said</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&gt; <br>
&gt; About your comments in the below email:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; - why is it important for the return path to be the same?<br>
&gt; - Associating a separate p2p with a p2mp (if not using hsmp) is more<br>
&gt; (if not only) useful to vpms than vpls?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">[Lizhong] I partly agree. And if we
all agree, we could remove the VPLS use case.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Lizhong</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Jeffrey<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; From: IJsbrand Wijnands [mailto:ice@cisco.com]<br>
&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 7:40 AM<br>
&gt; &gt; To: &lt;thomas.morin@orange.com&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Lizhong Jin; Ross Callon<br>
&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Hi Thomas,<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Basically, for *each* P2MP LSP (eg. one per-PE per VPN)
your proposal<br>
&gt; &gt; adds a (co-routed) path back to each PE, but this offer no gain
of<br>
&gt; &gt; state on P-routers, since in a typical scenario unicast LDP is
already<br>
&gt; &gt; here, and even assuming it is not, the cost of adding it is minimal
and<br>
&gt; &gt; (contrary to HSMP LSP) independent of the number of VPNs.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I still don't see where the gain is...<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; A nice property of the HSMP-LSP is that the path to the root
follows<br>
&gt; &gt; the the nodes in the path of the HSMP-LSP up to the root. That
can't be<br>
&gt; &gt; guaranteed in case you use a P2P LSP to the root. Also, if you
use a<br>
&gt; &gt; P2P LSP, you need an additional label to identify P2MP LSP it
has to be<br>
&gt; &gt; associated with.<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; So in general I think the HSMP-LSP is useful technology that
we should<br>
&gt; &gt; standardize. I'm pretty sure other use-cases will be developed
over<br>
&gt; &gt; time.<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Thx,<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Ice.<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; -Thomas<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; So, I would say that the draft is in a good shape for
being<br>
&gt; &gt; considered<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; for adoption. In my own view, the use cases would need
to be more<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; strongly backed and/or more detailed (and if necessary,
the claims<br>
&gt; &gt; of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; applicability reduced) but discussing this is a natural
part of a<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; debate on adoption.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -Thomas<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 2012-07-12, Ross Callon:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thomas, Ravi, Mach;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers
for<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; draft-jin-jounay-mpls-mldp-hsmp<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email
so that you can<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; know that this review is going on. However, please
do not review<br>
&gt; &gt; your<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; own document.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Reviews should comment on whether the document is
coherent, is it<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in
operational<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; networks), and is the document technically sound?
&nbsp;We are<br>
&gt; &gt; interested<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered
for WG<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this
point, but<br>
&gt; &gt; should<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; be a good start).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Reviews should be sent to the document authors,
WG co-chairs and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If
necessary,<br>
&gt; &gt; comments<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Are you able to review this draft by July 27, 2012
(ie, prior to<br>
&gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; IETF meeting in Vancouver)?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks, Ross<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; (as MPLS WG chair)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; __________________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations<br>
&gt; &gt; confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation.
Si vous<br>
&gt; &gt; avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes.
Les<br>
&gt; &gt; messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si
ce message a<br>
&gt; &gt; ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; This message and its attachments may contain confidential
or<br>
&gt; &gt; privileged information that may be protected by law;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; If you have received this email in error, please notify
the sender<br>
&gt; &gt; and delete this message and its attachments.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not
liable for<br>
&gt; &gt; messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Thank you.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
</font>
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From alessandro.dalessandro@telecomitalia.it  Tue Jul 31 00:19:51 2012
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From: D'Alessandro Alessandro Gerardo <alessandro.dalessandro@telecomitalia.it>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 09:18:11 +0200
Thread-Topic: [mpls] wg last call draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03
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Subject: Re: [mpls] wg last call draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03
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support

best regards,
Alessandro
________________________________________
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Anders=
son [loa@pi.nu]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:06 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu=
-t-identifiers@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] wg last call draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03

Working Group,

this working group last call were supposed to end on July 22nd.

However, we have not had one single comment on the draft during
the last call period.

We are therefore extending the wg last call until August 10, 2012.

We have also selected some members of the of the MPLS Review Team
whom we asked to review the draft and respond during the extended
working group last
call period.

/Loa
for the MPLS wG co-charis

On 2012-07-10 15:50, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> this is to start a working group last call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-03.
>
> Please send your comments to the MPLS wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> We have done an IPR poll among the authors and on the mpls wg mailing
> list. All the authors has responded that they are not aware any IPR
> claims on this document.
>
> No IPR disclosures has been filed against this document.
>
> This working group last call would normally end July 22, 2012, but
> since we at that time are in the publication cut-off period prior to
> the Vancouver meeting this wg last call ends when the cut-off is
> lifted.
>
> /Loa
> (for the wg co-chairs)
>
>

--


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13
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From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" <eosborne@cisco.com>
To: Yoshinori Koike <koike.yoshinori@lab.ntt.co.jp>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection Switching
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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 11:17:15 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection	Switching
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Hi Yoshinori-

 Thank you for your questions, I believe you've identified some confusing l=
anguage in our original proposed response.  I have included both your quest=
ions and our answers below.  Please let us know whether these answer your q=
uestions or whether you require further clarification, and we will update t=
he LS response as necessary.



eric =20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Yoshinori Koike
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 8:28 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] Proposed response to Liaison on Linear Protection
> Switching
>=20
> Hello Yacoov and Mr. Osborne,
>=20
> Thank you very much for preparing the draft liaison to ITU-T.
>=20
> I'm sorry for these late questions, but I have a few questions for
> clarification on the draft liaison.
>=20
> Q1) According to the item 1, it is written that the priority order "FS
> over SF-P" was defined also for consistency with the IETF Recovery
> terminology in RFC 4427. Could you be more specific about which part of
> the document can be referred, please?
>=20
> I have checked RFC4427 and I thought it might refer to the following
> part, but if "command" means internal command(not external command), it
> may imply that SF-P(internal command) could be prioritized.
>=20
> --------------
> D. Forced switch-over for normal traffic:
>=20
> A switch-over action, initiated externally, that switches normal
> traffic to the recovery LSP/span, unless an equal or higher priority
> switch-over command is in effect.
> ---------------
>=20

A1) Please refer to RFC4427, section 4.13 parts D/E.  In particular:

- part D defines "Forced switch-over for normal traffic", which is executed=
 " unless an equal or higher priority switch-over command is in effect"
- part E defines " Manual switch-over for normal traffic", which is execute=
d " unless a fault condition exists  ... or an equal or higher priority swi=
tch-over command is in effect."

Thus, RFC4427 differentiates between switch-over commands, i.e. lockout of =
 protection, forced switch, manual switch, etc, and fault conditions, i.e. =
SF-W, SF-P, etc.  Since an FS is executed unless there is a precluding swit=
ch-over command, and since MS is executed unless there is a precluding swit=
ch-over command or a fault condition, the FS must be executed even in the f=
ace of a fault condition.  This requires that FS take precedence over SF-P.

> Q2) Regarding item 1, there is a description that 'we note that in PSC
> the FS can be reverted provided one of the paths is active'. Could you
> explain more details about the meaning of this sentence, please? Does
> this mean that, for example, SF-P(with a working path is active)
> overrides FS depending on an implementation, which isn't compliant with
> the priority order of PSC?
>=20

A2) We agree that the wording is perhaps unclear.  It may make sense to sim=
ply remove that sentence, or we could rephrase it. =20

The logic behind FS and SF-P priorities doesn't change.  When an FS is remo=
ved, a node processes its remaining inputs and acts accordingly. =20

First consider the case where FS is active but no other inputs are present.=
  When FS is active, traffic is switched from W to P.  When FS is removed, =
traffic reverts to W. =20

Now consider the case where both FS and SF-P are active.  There are two way=
s this can happen: the operator configures FS and then sees SF-P from the n=
etwork, or the operator sees SF-P from the network and then configures FS. =
 The outcome is the same in either case but the latter case seems far less =
likely, so let's examine the first case.  When the operator configures FS, =
traffic is bridged into P.  When P fails, the traffic is simply dropped, as=
 it cannot be transmitted.  This obeys the logic of prioritizing FS over SF=
-P.  Should the operator wish to avoid this case, they should configure MS =
rather than FS.

Given that explanation, do you have any suggestions about how to handle the=
 text?  Should we remove the sentence, or rewrite it?

> Q3) Regarding the description in item 2, 'This feature may be used for
> future optimizations by different implementations.', could you be more
> specific about this sentence, please? I would like to know what kind of
> optimization will be achieved and how differently PSC will be implemented=
.
>=20

A3) We believe that changing the text to state - "this behavior may be used=
 by the operators to optimize their network operations, based on more compl=
ete status information..." would more clearly state the intention.=20

We had no intention of implying that there would be different implementatio=
ns of PSC, but rather that the more complete network status information pro=
vided by PSC, would allow the systems to react in a more efficient manner t=
o protection switching situations.'

> Q4) Regarding the description 'because it was felt that this be best
> specified in a management document' in item 6, does the "a management
> document" include both characteristics of equipment functional blocks
> and equipment management aspect?
>=20

A4) The IETF tends to standardize management behaviors which are required f=
or interoperability between devices.  This differs from the ITU, which publ=
ishes "equipment recommendations" that provide equipment functional blocks =
and management commands and messages that are generated.  If the ITU feels =
that these definitions are necessary for their equipment definitions then i=
t is their prerogative to document them there.  I believe that this is in k=
eeping with the spirit of the work-split between the IETF and the ITU on MP=
LS-TP.

> Just a very minor comment is, regarding Annex B of RFC6378, it is
> written on page 43 actually, although the table of contents point to
> page 44.
>=20

Thank you for this.  We will remove explicit page number references and sim=
ply refer to sections, including this reference to Appendix (not Annex) B.

From loa@pi.nu  Tue Jul 31 05:11:18 2012
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Subject: [mpls] wg doc poll on draft-jin-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery-04
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Working group,

this is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-jin-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery-04
as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

This poll ends August 17, 2012.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

From loa@pi.nu  Tue Jul 31 05:29:57 2012
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Subject: [mpls] IPR poll draft-jin-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery
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Working Group and authors;

The wg chair are nearly ready to issue a poll to accept
draft-jin-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery as a working group document,
we will run this IPR poll in parallel to the poll on making this
document a working group document.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
draft-jin-mpls-mldp-leaf-discovery?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
has been received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)

-- 


Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com
Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
                                              +46 767 72 92 13

From ice@cisco.com  Tue Jul 31 07:20:56 2012
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-signaling
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Dear WG,

Yes, there is IPR that was disclosed to IETF at 2010-03-2 (ID # 1305).

Thx,

Ice.




On 30 Jul 2012, at 18:57, Loa Andersson wrote:

> Working Group,
>=20
> draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-signaling has fallen between the chairs
> (no pun intended). Version -04 did go through working group last call
> in October 2011. The working group last call was never formally =
closed, so the working last call is now formally closed.
>=20
> The document has been updated according the comments in the working
> group last call and is now in version -06.
>=20
> The working group chairs are preparing a request for publication, but
> before requesting publication we need to do an IPR poll.
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-signaling?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond =
to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response
> has been received from each author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author =
or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of =
any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>=20
>=20
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                         email: =
loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                             +46 767 72 92 13
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20


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