From Herb@sisconet.com Thu Sep 26 19:15:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1B321F999B for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2013 19:15:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.261 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.261 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eouLVLZoglNE for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2013 19:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sisconet.com (mail.sisconet.com [50.77.197.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCA421F9EAE for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2013 19:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local ([fe80::2459:3d41:7314:dc1b]) by SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local ([fe80::2459:3d41:7314:dc1b%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:15:07 -0400 From: "Herb Falk " To: "msec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward Thread-Index: Ac67FJGyoGPYHJStQ3mYygEDVBEZfAAEfu0g Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 02:15:06 +0000 Message-ID: <418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80@SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [69.14.220.69] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80SISCOSBSsiscone_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:16:07 -0700 Cc: "Thanos, Daniel \(GE Energy Management\)" , Jeff Gooding/SCE/EIX , "Maik Seewald \(maseewal\)" , "Andrew.Free@sce.com" , "Madani, Vahid" , "Adamiak, Mark \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Novosel, Damir" , "Alex Apostolov \(alex.apostolov@omicronusa.com\)" Subject: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward X-BeenThere: msec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Security List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 02:39:40 -0000 --_004_418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80SISCOSBSsiscone_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80SISCOSBSsiscone_" --_000_418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80SISCOSBSsiscone_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been developing a te= chnology/standard for use as a secure multicast for its use in power grid a= pplications using synchrophasors and other technologies relevant to smartgr= id deployments globally. As part of the effort, some extensions to GDOI were identified. The 6407 d= raft incorporates and improves some of the enhancements already identified.= IEC TC57 WG15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transition to an RFC so it = can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9. There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE (Souther= n California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so that their cyber= security frameworks can be updated. Delays in the transition from draft t= o RFC will delay implementation of several projects and implementations. Herbert Falk Solutions Architect SISCO, INC. 6605 19 =BD Mile Rd. Sterling Heights, MI 48314 (586) 254-0020 x-105 [cid:image003.png@01CE7CB7.EBC8FC40] "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, sta= nd like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson] NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential inf= ormation. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have = received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit= , disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to= the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete = the copy you received. Thank you. ________________________________ --_000_418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80SISCOSBSsiscone_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) = and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been developing a technology/standard for = use as a secure multicast for its use in power grid applications using sync= hrophasors and other technologies relevant to smartgrid deployments globally.

 

As part of the effort,= some extensions to GDOI were identified.  The 6407 draft incorporates= and improves some of the enhancements already identified.  IEC TC57 W= G15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transition to an RFC so it can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9.<= o:p>

 

There are several util= ity vendors and utilities, in particular SCE (Southern California Edison), = that are awaiting this transition so that their cyber security frameworks c= an be updated.  Delays in the transition from draft to RFC will delay implementation of several projects and implem= entations.

 

 

 

 

 

Herbe= rt Falk

Soluti= ons Architect

SISCO,= INC.

6605 1= 9 =BD Mile Rd.

Sterli= ng Heights, MI 48314

(586) = 254-0020 x-105

3D"cid:image003.png@01CE7CB7.EBC8FC40"

 

   &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           

"In matters of st= yle, swim with the current;   in matters of principle, stand like= a rock." [Thomas Jefferson]

 

 

NOTICE: This communica= tion may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are n= ot the intended recipient, or believe that you have  received this com= munication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit,  disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Als= o,  please indicate to the sender that you have received this communic= ation in error, and delete the copy you received. Thank you.

 

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SC3mj9j5f1gOgRLyHTk5uZWSGUMIgncwfj8o3n4fju63PTz8VqJ3WCmV+Fqhqqq6Avd7Dvd/FdtY hlJ3Zl1Ffz/3TQTX+3jMO6giViJ5fBZDwWuk5E7aw7C0QhIOCFcY5Y2+Q8rtpGiGHmUFaf/P0ol/ SQ4hMxkgZCYDhMxkgJCZDBAykwFCZjJAyEwGCJnJACEzGSBk9v/Y/g98Igu/kLzAYQAAAABJRU5E rkJggg== --_004_418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80SISCOSBSsiscone_-- From ynir@checkpoint.com Fri Sep 27 10:19:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 138B021F91BF for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 10:19:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.372 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.372 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.226, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jogKM7dipTdL for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 10:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DC7D21F91F2 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 10:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.147]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r8RHInux013484; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 20:18:49 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {5245BDF9-C-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.30]) by IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.92]) with mapi id 14.02.0347.000; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 20:18:49 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: Herb Falk , "Sean P. Turner" Thread-Topic: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward Thread-Index: Ac67FJGyoGPYHJStQ3mYygEDVBEZfAAEfu0gABl+LQA= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 17:18:49 +0000 Message-ID: <7417090A-55F1-42ED-B051-1EB197DAAB52@checkpoint.com> References: <418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80@SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local> In-Reply-To: <418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80@SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.24.227] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: protection disabled Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7417090A55F142EDB0511EB197DAAB52checkpointcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "msec@ietf.org" , Jeff Gooding/SCE/EIX , "Maik Seewald \(maseewal\)" , "Andrew.Free@sce.com" , "Madani, Vahid" , "Adamiak, Mark \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Novosel, Damir" , "Thanos, Daniel \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Alex Apostolov \(alex.apostolov@omicronusa.com\)" Subject: Re: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward X-BeenThere: msec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Security List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 17:19:36 -0000 --_000_7417090A55F142EDB0511EB197DAAB52checkpointcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a "draft RFC". Drafts become RF= Cs, at which point they're done. You may be referring to the fact that RFC = 6407 is labeled "proposed standard". This is a label that the IETF attaches= to documents for which there is relatively little implementation experienc= e. The label is not automatically changed after a while. Even things that a= re widely implemented and used by millions such as IKEv2 (RFC 5996), IPsec = (RFC 4301), TLS (RFC 5246), and HTTP (RFC 2616), without a doubt the most p= opular protocol on the Internet) is at "draft standard" - a classification = that does not exist any more, but was below "full standard". I'm adding Sean Turner, the Security Area Director, because he's been handl= ing many similar requests recently. Hope this helps Yoav On Sep 27, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Herb Falk > > wrote: IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been developing a te= chnology/standard for use as a secure multicast for its use in power grid a= pplications using synchrophasors and other technologies relevant to smartgr= id deployments globally. As part of the effort, some extensions to GDOI were identified. The 6407 d= raft incorporates and improves some of the enhancements already identified.= IEC TC57 WG15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transition to an RFC so it = can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9. There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE (Souther= n California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so that their cyber= security frameworks can be updated. Delays in the transition from draft t= o RFC will delay implementation of several projects and implementations. Herbert Falk Solutions Architect SISCO, INC. 6605 19 =BD Mile Rd. Sterling Heights, MI 48314 (586) 254-0020 x-105 "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, sta= nd like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson] NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential inf= ormation. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have = received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit= , disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to= the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete = the copy you received. Thank you. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ MSEC mailing list MSEC@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec --_000_7417090A55F142EDB0511EB197DAAB52checkpointcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi 

Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a "draft RFC". D= rafts become RFCs, at which point they're done. You may be referring to the= fact that RFC 6407 is labeled "proposed standard". This is a lab= el that the IETF attaches to documents for which there is relatively little implementation experience. The label is not automatic= ally changed after a while. Even things that are widely implemented and use= d by millions such as IKEv2 (RFC 5996), IPsec (RFC 4301), TLS (RFC 5246), a= nd HTTP (RFC 2616), without a doubt the most popular protocol on the Internet) is at "draft standard"= ; - a classification that does not exist any more, but was below "full= standard".

I'm adding Sean Turner, the Security Area Director, because he's been = handling many similar requests recently.

Hope this helps

Yoav

On Sep 27, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Herb Falk <herb@sisconet.com> <Herb@sisconet.com> wrote:

IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC5= 7 WG15 (Security) has been developing a technology/standard for use as a se= cure multicast for its use in power grid applications using synchrophasors = and other technologies relevant to smartgrid deployments globally.
 
As part of the effort, some exten= sions to GDOI were identified.  The 6407 draft incorporates and improv= es some of the enhancements already identified.  IEC TC57 WG15 is wait= ing for the draft RFC to transition to an RFC so it can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9.=
 
There are several utility vendors= and utilities, in particular SCE (Southern California Edison), that are aw= aiting this transition so that their cyber security frameworks can be updat= ed.  Delays in the transition from draft to RFC will delay implementation of several projects and implementat= ions.
 
 
 
 
 
Herbert Falk=
Solutions Architec= t
SISCO, INC.
6605 19 =BD Mile R= d.
Sterling Heights, = MI 48314
(586) 254-0020 x-1= 05
<image001.png><= o:p>
 
     &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =           
"In matters of style, swim w= ith the current;   in matters of principle, stand like a rock.&qu= ot; [Thomas Jefferson]
 
 
NOTICE: This communication may co= ntain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the inte= nded recipient, or believe that you have  received this communication = in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit,  disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also,  please indicate= to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and dele= te the copy you received. Thank you.
 
_______________________________________________
MSEC mailing list
MSEC@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mse= c

--_000_7417090A55F142EDB0511EB197DAAB52checkpointcom_-- From william.atwood@concordia.ca Fri Sep 27 13:02:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D049621F9FA2 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:02:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.299, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6bSaRx24hmnJ for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.96.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4673F21F9FBF for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (bill@grace.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.2.217]) by oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (envelope-from william.atwood@concordia.ca) (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id r8RK1jaA025565; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:01:45 -0400 Message-ID: <5245E431.8070208@concordia.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:01:53 -0400 From: William Atwood Organization: Concordia University, Montreal User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yoav Nir References: <418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80@SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local> <7417090A-55F1-42ED-B051-1EB197DAAB52@checkpoint.com> In-Reply-To: <7417090A-55F1-42ED-B051-1EB197DAAB52@checkpoint.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040204080603020802030306" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca at 2013/09/27 16:01:47 EDT Cc: "msec@ietf.org" , Jeff Gooding/SCE/EIX , "Maik Seewald \(maseewal\)" , "Andrew.Free@sce.com" , "Madani, Vahid" , "Adamiak, Mark \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Sean P. Turner" , "Thanos, Daniel \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Novosel, Damir" , Herb Falk , "Alex Apostolov \(alex.apostolov@omicronusa.com\)" Subject: Re: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward X-BeenThere: msec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Security List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 20:02:11 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040204080603020802030306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Actually, he is probably referring to the "6407 update draft", which is draft-weis-gdoi-iec62351-9-02. This is an update to 6407 precisely to serve the IEC needs. I suspect that the email is a plea for fast action on progressing draft-weis to RFC. Bill On 27/09/2013 1:18 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: > Hi > > Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a "draft RFC". Drafts > become RFCs, at which point they're done. You may be referring to the > fact that RFC 6407 is labeled "proposed standard". This is a label > that the IETF attaches to documents for which there is relatively > little implementation experience. The label is not automatically > changed after a while. Even things that are widely implemented and > used by millions such as IKEv2 (RFC 5996), IPsec (RFC 4301), TLS (RFC > 5246), and HTTP (RFC 2616), without a doubt the most popular protocol > on the Internet) is at "draft standard" - a classification that does > not exist any more, but was below "full standard". > > I'm adding Sean Turner, the Security Area Director, because he's been > handling many similar requests recently. > > Hope this helps > > Yoav > > On Sep 27, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Herb Falk > > wrote: > >> IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been >> developing a technology/standard for use as a secure multicast for >> its use in power grid applications using synchrophasors and other >> technologies relevant to smartgrid deployments globally. >> >> As part of the effort, some extensions to GDOI were identified. The >> 6407 draft incorporates and improves some of the enhancements already >> identified. IEC TC57 WG15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transition >> to an RFC so it can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9. >> >> There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE >> (Southern California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so >> that their cyber security frameworks can be updated. Delays in the >> transition from draft to RFC will delay implementation of several >> projects and implementations. >> >> >> >> >> >> Herbert Falk >> Solutions Architect >> SISCO, INC. >> 6605 19 ½ Mile Rd. >> Sterling Heights, MI 48314 >> (586) 254-0020 x-105 >> >> >> >> "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of >> principle, stand like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson] >> >> >> NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other >> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or >> believe that you have received this communication in error, please >> do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the >> information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have >> received this communication in error, and delete the copy you >> received. Thank you. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> MSEC mailing list >> MSEC@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec > > > > _______________________________________________ > MSEC mailing list > MSEC@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec -- Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 Department of Computer Science and Software Engineering Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 --------------040204080603020802030306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, he is probably referring to the "6407 update draft", which is draft-weis-gdoi-iec62351-9-02.  This is an update to 6407 precisely to serve the IEC needs.  I suspect that the email is a plea for fast action on progressing draft-weis to RFC.

  Bill



On 27/09/2013 1:18 PM, Yoav Nir wrote:
Hi 

Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a "draft RFC". Drafts become RFCs, at which point they're done. You may be referring to the fact that RFC 6407 is labeled "proposed standard". This is a label that the IETF attaches to documents for which there is relatively little implementation experience. The label is not automatically changed after a while. Even things that are widely implemented and used by millions such as IKEv2 (RFC 5996), IPsec (RFC 4301), TLS (RFC 5246), and HTTP (RFC 2616), without a doubt the most popular protocol on the Internet) is at "draft standard" - a classification that does not exist any more, but was below "full standard".

I'm adding Sean Turner, the Security Area Director, because he's been handling many similar requests recently.

Hope this helps

Yoav

On Sep 27, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Herb Falk <herb@sisconet.com> <Herb@sisconet.com> wrote:

IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been developing a technology/standard for use as a secure multicast for its use in power grid applications using synchrophasors and other technologies relevant to smartgrid deployments globally.
 
As part of the effort, some extensions to GDOI were identified.  The 6407 draft incorporates and improves some of the enhancements already identified.  IEC TC57 WG15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transition to an RFC so it can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9.
 
There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE (Southern California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so that their cyber security frameworks can be updated.  Delays in the transition from draft to RFC will delay implementation of several projects and implementations.
 
 
 
 
 
Herbert Falk
Solutions Architect
SISCO, INC.
6605 19 ½ Mile Rd.
Sterling Heights, MI 48314
(586) 254-0020 x-105
<image001.png>
 
                                                                              
"In matters of style, swim with the current;   in matters of principle, stand like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson]
 
 
NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have  received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit,  disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also,  please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. Thank you.
 
_______________________________________________
MSEC mailing list
MSEC@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec



_______________________________________________
MSEC mailing list
MSEC@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec


-- 
Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng.             tel:   +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046
Distinguished Professor Emeritus  fax:   +1 (514) 848-2830
Department of Computer Science
   and Software Engineering
Concordia University EV 3.185     email:william.atwood@concordia.ca
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West    http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill
Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8
--------------040204080603020802030306-- From paul@marvell.com Fri Sep 27 14:52:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A84821F9D66 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:52:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.264 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.264 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ibYeKjexNO-m for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-0016f401.pphosted.com (mx0a-0016f401.pphosted.com [67.231.148.174]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B1721F9CA5 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0045849.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-0016f401.pphosted.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id r8RLqP1c028803; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:52:43 -0700 Received: from sc-owa01.marvell.com ([199.233.58.136]) by mx0a-0016f401.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 1f4d6da2fa-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:52:43 -0700 Received: from SC-vEXCH2.marvell.com ([10.93.76.134]) by SC-OWA01.marvell.com ([10.93.76.21]) with mapi; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:52:43 -0700 From: Paul Lambert To: "Herb Falk " , "msec@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:52:43 -0700 Thread-Topic: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward Thread-Index: Ac67y+Q/muj4dKbwRZ+M8dFheo63vw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80@SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.6.130613 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE6B4BE423A05paulmarvellcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.10.8794, 1.0.431, 0.0.0000 definitions=2013-09-27_09:2013-09-27, 2013-09-27, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1305240000 definitions=main-1309270135 Cc: Jeff Gooding/SCE/EIX , "Maik Seewald \(maseewal\)" , "Andrew.Free@sce.com" , "Madani, Vahid" , "Adamiak, Mark \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Novosel, Damir" , "Thanos, Daniel \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Alex Apostolov \(alex.apostolov@omicronusa.com\)" Subject: Re: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward X-BeenThere: msec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Security List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 21:52:54 -0000 --_000_CE6B4BE423A05paulmarvellcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been developing a te= chnology/standard for use as a secure multicast for its use in power grid a= pplications using synchrophasors and other technologies relevant to smartgr= id deployments globally. As part of the effort, some extensions to GDOI were identified. The 6407 d= raft incorporates and improves some of the enhancements already identified.= IEC TC57 WG15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transition to an RFC so it = can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9. There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE (Souther= n California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so that their cyber= security frameworks can be updated. Delays in the transition from draft t= o RFC will delay implementation of several projects and implementations. Good to see such applications. What encapsulation mode is specified for th= is multicast service? Just curious since I have other industry requiremen= ts that are very similar and need better multicast security. Thanks in advance, Paul Herbert Falk Solutions Architect SISCO, INC. 6605 19 1=8E2 Mile Rd. Sterling Heights, MI 48314 (586) 254-0020 x-105 [cid:image001.png@01CEBB05.DAE71150] "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, sta= nd like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson] NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential inf= ormation. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have = received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit= , disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to= the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete = the copy you received. Thank you. ________________________________ --_000_CE6B4BE423A05paulmarvellcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has b= een developing a technology/standard for use as a secure multicast for its = use in power grid applications using synchrophasors and other technologies = relevant to smartgrid deployments globally.

 

As part of the effort, some extens= ions to GDOI were identified.  The 6407 draft incorporates and improve= s some of the enhancements already identified.  IEC TC57 WG15 is waiti= ng for the draft RFC to transition to an RFC so it can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9.<= o:p>

<= o:p> 

There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE (So= uthern California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so that their = cyber security frameworks can be updated.  Delays in the transition from draft to RFC will delay implementation of several projects and implem= entations.


<= div>Good to see such applications.  What encapsulation mode is specifi= ed for this multicast service?   Just curious since I have other indus= try requirements that are very similar and need better multicast security.<= /div>

Thanks in advance,

Paul


 

 

 

 

 

Herbert Falk

Solutions Architect

SISCO, INC.

6605 19 1=8E2 Mile Rd.=

St= erling Heights, MI 48314

(586) 254-0020 x-105

3D"cid:image003.png@01CE7CB7.EBC8FC40"

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal"> 

   = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;

= "In matters of style, swim with the current;   in matters of= principle, stand like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson]

 

 

NOTICE: = This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information= . If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have  rec= eived this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit,  disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Als= o,  please indicate to the sender that you have received this communic= ation in error, and delete the copy you received. Thank you.

&nbs= p;

Actually, he is probably referring to the "6407 update draft", which is > draft-weis-gdoi-iec62351-9-02. This is an update to 6407 precisely to > serve the IEC needs. I suspect that the email is a plea for fast action > on progressing draft-weis to RFC. > > Bill > > > > On 27/09/2013 1:18 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: >> Hi >> >> Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a "draft RFC". Drafts >> become RFCs, at which point they're done. You may be referring to the >> fact that RFC 6407 is labeled "proposed standard". This is a label >> that the IETF attaches to documents for which there is relatively >> little implementation experience. The label is not automatically >> changed after a while. Even things that are widely implemented and >> used by millions such as IKEv2 (RFC 5996), IPsec (RFC 4301), TLS (RFC >> 5246), and HTTP (RFC 2616), without a doubt the most popular protocol >> on the Internet) is at "draft standard" - a classification that does >> not exist any more, but was below "full standard". >> >> I'm adding Sean Turner, the Security Area Director, because he's been >> handling many similar requests recently. >> >> Hope this helps >> >> Yoav >> >> On Sep 27, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Herb Falk > > > > wrote: >> >>> IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been >>> developing a technology/standard for use as a secure multicast for >>> its use in power grid applications using synchrophasors and other >>> technologies relevant to smartgrid deployments globally. >>> As part of the effort, some extensions to GDOI were identified. The >>> 6407 draft incorporates and improves some of the enhancements already >>> identified. IEC TC57 WG15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transition >>> to an RFC so it can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9. >>> There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE >>> (Southern California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so >>> that their cyber security frameworks can be updated. Delays in the >>> transition from draft to RFC will delay implementation of several >>> projects and implementations. >>> Herbert Falk >>> Solutions Architect >>> SISCO, INC. >>> 6605 19 ½ Mile Rd. >>> Sterling Heights, MI 48314 >>> (586) 254-0020 x-105 >>> >>> "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of >>> principle, stand like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson] >>> NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other >>> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or >>> believe that you have received this communication in error, please do >>> not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the >>> information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have >>> received this communication in error, and delete the copy you >>> received. Thank you. >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MSEC mailing list >>> MSEC@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MSEC mailing list >> MSEC@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec > > -- > Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 > Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 > Department of Computer Science > and Software Engineering > Concordia University EV 3.185email:william.atwood@concordia.ca > 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. Westhttp://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill > Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 > From ynir@checkpoint.com Mon Sep 30 08:53:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDB4421F979E for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 08:53:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.363 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.363 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.236, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sq87zwOw6Wph for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 08:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6412321F85D1 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 08:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.147]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r8UFqisF000616; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:52:44 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {52499E4C-0-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.30]) by IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.92]) with mapi id 14.02.0347.000; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:52:44 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: Sean Turner Thread-Topic: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward Thread-Index: Ac67FJGyoGPYHJStQ3mYygEDVBEZfAAEfu0gABl+LQAABa9lgACNPdEAAADvBAA= Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:52:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80@SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local> <7417090A-55F1-42ED-B051-1EB197DAAB52@checkpoint.com> <5245E431.8070208@concordia.ca> <5249980C.2090201@ieca.com> In-Reply-To: <5249980C.2090201@ieca.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.21.10] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: protection disabled Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <6CCB754AB161264F8728F3F02045D6E4@ad.checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "msec@ietf.org" , Jeff Gooding/SCE/EIX , "Maik Seewald \(maseewal\)" , "Andrew.Free@sce.com" , "Madani, Vahid" , "Adamiak, Mark \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Novosel, Damir" , "Thanos, Daniel \(GE Energy Management\)" , Herb Falk , "Alex Apostolov \(alex.apostolov@omicronusa.com\)" Subject: Re: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward X-BeenThere: msec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Security List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:53:33 -0000 I could, I guess. Does it matter if prior to reading it I have never heard of IEC 62351-9 in = particular, or IEC in general? Yoav On Sep 30, 2013, at 6:26 PM, Sean Turner wrote: > For the record Brian has approached me about AD-sponsoring draft-weis-gdo= i-iec62351-9-02. I don't think it's actually an update of 6407 it's more o= f here's how IEC 62351 would use RFC 6407. >=20 > After talking with Brian in Berlin, I have but one dilemma AD-sponsoring = such a draft is that it is intended for proposed standard and as best I can= tell there's been one review (thanks Steffan). Knowing that the msec comm= unity in the IETF is pretty small this might be a tall order, but is there = anybody else out there will to give it a review? (cough, hint) Yoav, Vince= nt :) >=20 > spt >=20 > On 9/27/13 4:01 PM, William Atwood wrote: >> Actually, he is probably referring to the "6407 update draft", which is >> draft-weis-gdoi-iec62351-9-02. This is an update to 6407 precisely to >> serve the IEC needs. I suspect that the email is a plea for fast action >> on progressing draft-weis to RFC. >>=20 >> Bill >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 27/09/2013 1:18 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: >>> Hi >>>=20 >>> Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a "draft RFC". Drafts >>> become RFCs, at which point they're done. You may be referring to the >>> fact that RFC 6407 is labeled "proposed standard". This is a label >>> that the IETF attaches to documents for which there is relatively >>> little implementation experience. The label is not automatically >>> changed after a while. Even things that are widely implemented and >>> used by millions such as IKEv2 (RFC 5996), IPsec (RFC 4301), TLS (RFC >>> 5246), and HTTP (RFC 2616), without a doubt the most popular protocol >>> on the Internet) is at "draft standard" - a classification that does >>> not exist any more, but was below "full standard". >>>=20 >>> I'm adding Sean Turner, the Security Area Director, because he's been >>> handling many similar requests recently. >>>=20 >>> Hope this helps >>>=20 >>> Yoav >>>=20 >>> On Sep 27, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Herb Falk >> > >> > wrote: >>>=20 >>>> IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been >>>> developing a technology/standard for use as a secure multicast for >>>> its use in power grid applications using synchrophasors and other >>>> technologies relevant to smartgrid deployments globally. >>>> As part of the effort, some extensions to GDOI were identified. The >>>> 6407 draft incorporates and improves some of the enhancements already >>>> identified. IEC TC57 WG15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transition >>>> to an RFC so it can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351= -9. >>>> There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE >>>> (Southern California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so >>>> that their cyber security frameworks can be updated. Delays in the >>>> transition from draft to RFC will delay implementation of several >>>> projects and implementations. >>>> Herbert Falk >>>> Solutions Architect >>>> SISCO, INC. >>>> 6605 19 =BD Mile Rd. >>>> Sterling Heights, MI 48314 >>>> (586) 254-0020 x-105 >>>> >>>> "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of >>>> principle, stand like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson] >>>> NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other >>>> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or >>>> believe that you have received this communication in error, please do >>>> not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the >>>> information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have >>>> received this communication in error, and delete the copy you >>>> received. Thank you. >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> MSEC mailing list >>>> MSEC@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MSEC mailing list >>> MSEC@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec >>=20 >> -- >> Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 >> Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 >> Department of Computer Science >> and Software Engineering >> Concordia University EV 3.185email:william.atwood@concordia.ca >> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. Westhttp://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill >> Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 >>=20 >=20 > Email secured by Check Point From turners@ieca.com Mon Sep 30 09:03:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AC221F9B92 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:03:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.251 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rphAYWgH9xt8 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway09.websitewelcome.com (gateway09.websitewelcome.com [69.93.243.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E7421F880F for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gateway09.websitewelcome.com (Postfix, from userid 507) id 202DB6119EDBE; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:01:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gator3286.hostgator.com (gator3286.hostgator.com [198.57.247.250]) by gateway09.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C459F611787FE for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:00:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [96.231.225.44] (port=56837 helo=thunderfish.local) by gator3286.hostgator.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VQfuo-000856-U5; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:01:43 -0500 Message-ID: <5249A05F.6060207@ieca.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:01:35 -0400 From: Sean Turner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yoav Nir References: <418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80@SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local> <7417090A-55F1-42ED-B051-1EB197DAAB52@checkpoint.com> <5245E431.8070208@concordia.ca> <5249980C.2090201@ieca.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator3286.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ieca.com X-BWhitelist: no X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: (thunderfish.local) [96.231.225.44]:56837 X-Source-Auth: sean.turner@ieca.com X-Email-Count: 9 X-Source-Cap: ZG9tbWdyNDg7ZG9tbWdyNDg7Z2F0b3IzMjg2Lmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20= Cc: "msec@ietf.org" , Jeff Gooding/SCE/EIX , "Maik Seewald \(maseewal\)" , "Andrew.Free@sce.com" , "Madani, Vahid" , "Adamiak, Mark \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Novosel, Damir" , "Thanos, Daniel \(GE Energy Management\)" , Herb Falk , "Alex Apostolov \(alex.apostolov@omicronusa.com\)" Subject: Re: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward X-BeenThere: msec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Security List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:03:53 -0000 IEC is usually paired with ISO ;) There's the rub right - I read it and was like sure I take your word Brian. I think that you could treat it kind of like a secdir review and that would be sufficient for me. spt On 9/30/13 11:52 AM, Yoav Nir wrote: > I could, I guess. > > Does it matter if prior to reading it I have never heard of IEC 62351-9 in particular, or IEC in general? > > Yoav > > On Sep 30, 2013, at 6:26 PM, Sean Turner wrote: > >> For the record Brian has approached me about AD-sponsoring draft-weis-gdoi-iec62351-9-02. I don't think it's actually an update of 6407 it's more of here's how IEC 62351 would use RFC 6407. >> >> After talking with Brian in Berlin, I have but one dilemma AD-sponsoring such a draft is that it is intended for proposed standard and as best I can tell there's been one review (thanks Steffan). Knowing that the msec community in the IETF is pretty small this might be a tall order, but is there anybody else out there will to give it a review? (cough, hint) Yoav, Vincent :) >> >> spt >> >> On 9/27/13 4:01 PM, William Atwood wrote: >>> Actually, he is probably referring to the "6407 update draft", which is >>> draft-weis-gdoi-iec62351-9-02. This is an update to 6407 precisely to >>> serve the IEC needs. I suspect that the email is a plea for fast action >>> on progressing draft-weis to RFC. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> On 27/09/2013 1:18 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a "draft RFC". Drafts >>>> become RFCs, at which point they're done. You may be referring to the >>>> fact that RFC 6407 is labeled "proposed standard". This is a label >>>> that the IETF attaches to documents for which there is relatively >>>> little implementation experience. The label is not automatically >>>> changed after a while. Even things that are widely implemented and >>>> used by millions such as IKEv2 (RFC 5996), IPsec (RFC 4301), TLS (RFC >>>> 5246), and HTTP (RFC 2616), without a doubt the most popular protocol >>>> on the Internet) is at "draft standard" - a classification that does >>>> not exist any more, but was below "full standard". >>>> >>>> I'm adding Sean Turner, the Security Area Director, because he's been >>>> handling many similar requests recently. >>>> >>>> Hope this helps >>>> >>>> Yoav >>>> >>>> On Sep 27, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Herb Falk >>> > >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been >>>>> developing a technology/standard for use as a secure multicast for >>>>> its use in power grid applications using synchrophasors and other >>>>> technologies relevant to smartgrid deployments globally. >>>>> As part of the effort, some extensions to GDOI were identified. The >>>>> 6407 draft incorporates and improves some of the enhancements already >>>>> identified. IEC TC57 WG15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transition >>>>> to an RFC so it can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9. >>>>> There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE >>>>> (Southern California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so >>>>> that their cyber security frameworks can be updated. Delays in the >>>>> transition from draft to RFC will delay implementation of several >>>>> projects and implementations. >>>>> Herbert Falk >>>>> Solutions Architect >>>>> SISCO, INC. >>>>> 6605 19 ½ Mile Rd. >>>>> Sterling Heights, MI 48314 >>>>> (586) 254-0020 x-105 >>>>> >>>>> "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of >>>>> principle, stand like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson] >>>>> NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other >>>>> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or >>>>> believe that you have received this communication in error, please do >>>>> not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the >>>>> information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have >>>>> received this communication in error, and delete the copy you >>>>> received. Thank you. >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> MSEC mailing list >>>>> MSEC@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> MSEC mailing list >>>> MSEC@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 >>> Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 >>> Department of Computer Science >>> and Software Engineering >>> Concordia University EV 3.185email:william.atwood@concordia.ca >>> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. Westhttp://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill >>> Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 >>> >> >> Email secured by Check Point > > From ynir@checkpoint.com Mon Sep 30 09:15:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA76821F938E for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:15:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.379 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.379 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.220, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x0Y7MPu6pSTW for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2EC21F8E3D for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.147]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r8UGEFqB009149; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:14:16 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {5249A357-1E-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.30]) by IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.92]) with mapi id 14.02.0347.000; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:14:15 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: Sean Turner Thread-Topic: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward Thread-Index: Ac67FJGyoGPYHJStQ3mYygEDVBEZfAAEfu0gABl+LQAABa9lgACNPdEAAADvBAAAAE6HgAAAcUCA Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:14:15 +0000 Message-ID: <85CF9F24-C02C-491D-A000-487B7A524F97@checkpoint.com> References: <418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80@SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local> <7417090A-55F1-42ED-B051-1EB197DAAB52@checkpoint.com> <5245E431.8070208@concordia.ca> <5249980C.2090201@ieca.com> <5249A05F.6060207@ieca.com> In-Reply-To: <5249A05F.6060207@ieca.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.21.10] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: protection disabled Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <1537316DB0490840AC89F64A8A3D9BC0@ad.checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "msec@ietf.org" , Jeff Gooding/SCE/EIX , "Maik Seewald \(maseewal\)" , "Andrew.Free@sce.com" , "Madani, Vahid" , "Adamiak, Mark \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Novosel, Damir" , "Thanos, Daniel \(GE Energy Management\)" , Herb Falk , "Alex Apostolov \(alex.apostolov@omicronusa.com\)" Subject: Re: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward X-BeenThere: msec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Security List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:15:04 -0000 OK, I'll do it.=20 At the latest, on the 20-hour journey to Vancouver. Hopefully earlier. Yoav On Sep 30, 2013, at 7:01 PM, Sean Turner wrote: > IEC is usually paired with ISO ;) There's the rub right - I read it and = was like sure I take your word Brian. I think that you could treat it kind= of like a secdir review and that would be sufficient for me. >=20 > spt >=20 > On 9/30/13 11:52 AM, Yoav Nir wrote: >> I could, I guess. >>=20 >> Does it matter if prior to reading it I have never heard of IEC 62351-9 = in particular, or IEC in general? >>=20 >> Yoav >>=20 >> On Sep 30, 2013, at 6:26 PM, Sean Turner wrote: >>=20 >>> For the record Brian has approached me about AD-sponsoring draft-weis-g= doi-iec62351-9-02. I don't think it's actually an update of 6407 it's more= of here's how IEC 62351 would use RFC 6407. >>>=20 >>> After talking with Brian in Berlin, I have but one dilemma AD-sponsorin= g such a draft is that it is intended for proposed standard and as best I c= an tell there's been one review (thanks Steffan). Knowing that the msec co= mmunity in the IETF is pretty small this might be a tall order, but is ther= e anybody else out there will to give it a review? (cough, hint) Yoav, Vin= cent :) >>>=20 >>> spt >>>=20 >>> On 9/27/13 4:01 PM, William Atwood wrote: >>>> Actually, he is probably referring to the "6407 update draft", which i= s >>>> draft-weis-gdoi-iec62351-9-02. This is an update to 6407 precisely to >>>> serve the IEC needs. I suspect that the email is a plea for fast acti= on >>>> on progressing draft-weis to RFC. >>>>=20 >>>> Bill >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 27/09/2013 1:18 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: >>>>> Hi >>>>>=20 >>>>> Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a "draft RFC". Drafts >>>>> become RFCs, at which point they're done. You may be referring to the >>>>> fact that RFC 6407 is labeled "proposed standard". This is a label >>>>> that the IETF attaches to documents for which there is relatively >>>>> little implementation experience. The label is not automatically >>>>> changed after a while. Even things that are widely implemented and >>>>> used by millions such as IKEv2 (RFC 5996), IPsec (RFC 4301), TLS (RFC >>>>> 5246), and HTTP (RFC 2616), without a doubt the most popular protocol >>>>> on the Internet) is at "draft standard" - a classification that does >>>>> not exist any more, but was below "full standard". >>>>>=20 >>>>> I'm adding Sean Turner, the Security Area Director, because he's been >>>>> handling many similar requests recently. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hope this helps >>>>>=20 >>>>> Yoav >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Sep 27, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Herb Falk >>>> > >>>> > wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been >>>>>> developing a technology/standard for use as a secure multicast for >>>>>> its use in power grid applications using synchrophasors and other >>>>>> technologies relevant to smartgrid deployments globally. >>>>>> As part of the effort, some extensions to GDOI were identified. The >>>>>> 6407 draft incorporates and improves some of the enhancements alread= y >>>>>> identified. IEC TC57 WG15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transitio= n >>>>>> to an RFC so it can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 623= 51-9. >>>>>> There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE >>>>>> (Southern California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so >>>>>> that their cyber security frameworks can be updated. Delays in the >>>>>> transition from draft to RFC will delay implementation of several >>>>>> projects and implementations. >>>>>> Herbert Falk >>>>>> Solutions Architect >>>>>> SISCO, INC. >>>>>> 6605 19 =BD Mile Rd. >>>>>> Sterling Heights, MI 48314 >>>>>> (586) 254-0020 x-105 >>>>>> >>>>>> "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of >>>>>> principle, stand like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson] >>>>>> NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other >>>>>> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or >>>>>> believe that you have received this communication in error, please d= o >>>>>> not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the >>>>>> information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have >>>>>> received this communication in error, and delete the copy you >>>>>> received. Thank you. >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> MSEC mailing list >>>>>> MSEC@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> MSEC mailing list >>>>> MSEC@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 >>>> Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 >>>> Department of Computer Science >>>> and Software Engineering >>>> Concordia University EV 3.185email:william.atwood@concordia.ca >>>> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. Westhttp://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill >>>> Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Email secured by Check Point >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > Email secured by Check Point From turners@ieca.com Mon Sep 30 13:09:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: msec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68E4321F9E39 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:09:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.252 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.252 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LGb6KPOt7Rpp for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway12.websitewelcome.com (gateway12.websitewelcome.com [69.56.195.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A208521F8B35 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gateway12.websitewelcome.com (Postfix, from userid 5007) id 6F6E83985F810; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:09:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gator3286.hostgator.com (gator3286.hostgator.com [198.57.247.250]) by gateway12.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48BDE3985F79D for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:09:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [96.231.225.44] (port=57672 helo=thunderfish.local) by gator3286.hostgator.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VQjmQ-0000rq-1P; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:09:18 -0500 Message-ID: <5249DA6C.6050504@ieca.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:09:16 -0400 From: Sean Turner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yoav Nir References: <418E74FA535F654FAB3CAAE12902E2940156AA80@SISCO-SBS.sisconet.local> <7417090A-55F1-42ED-B051-1EB197DAAB52@checkpoint.com> <5245E431.8070208@concordia.ca> <5249980C.2090201@ieca.com> <5249A05F.6060207@ieca.com> <85CF9F24-C02C-491D-A000-487B7A524F97@checkpoint.com> In-Reply-To: <85CF9F24-C02C-491D-A000-487B7A524F97@checkpoint.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator3286.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ieca.com X-BWhitelist: no X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: (thunderfish.local) [96.231.225.44]:57672 X-Source-Auth: sean.turner@ieca.com X-Email-Count: 12 X-Source-Cap: ZG9tbWdyNDg7ZG9tbWdyNDg7Z2F0b3IzMjg2Lmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20= Cc: "msec@ietf.org" , Jeff Gooding/SCE/EIX , "Maik Seewald \(maseewal\)" , "Andrew.Free@sce.com" , "Madani, Vahid" , "Adamiak, Mark \(GE Energy Management\)" , "Novosel, Damir" , "Thanos, Daniel \(GE Energy Management\)" , Herb Falk , "Alex Apostolov \(alex.apostolov@omicronusa.com\)" Subject: Re: [MSEC] Key Management protocol (GDOI - 6407) forward X-BeenThere: msec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Security List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 20:09:25 -0000 And I'll get you out of a secdir review in exchange - once it's done of course ;) spt On 9/30/13 12:14 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: > OK, I'll do it. > > At the latest, on the 20-hour journey to Vancouver. Hopefully earlier. > > Yoav > > On Sep 30, 2013, at 7:01 PM, Sean Turner wrote: > >> IEC is usually paired with ISO ;) There's the rub right - I read it and was like sure I take your word Brian. I think that you could treat it kind of like a secdir review and that would be sufficient for me. >> >> spt >> >> On 9/30/13 11:52 AM, Yoav Nir wrote: >>> I could, I guess. >>> >>> Does it matter if prior to reading it I have never heard of IEC 62351-9 in particular, or IEC in general? >>> >>> Yoav >>> >>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 6:26 PM, Sean Turner wrote: >>> >>>> For the record Brian has approached me about AD-sponsoring draft-weis-gdoi-iec62351-9-02. I don't think it's actually an update of 6407 it's more of here's how IEC 62351 would use RFC 6407. >>>> >>>> After talking with Brian in Berlin, I have but one dilemma AD-sponsoring such a draft is that it is intended for proposed standard and as best I can tell there's been one review (thanks Steffan). Knowing that the msec community in the IETF is pretty small this might be a tall order, but is there anybody else out there will to give it a review? (cough, hint) Yoav, Vincent :) >>>> >>>> spt >>>> >>>> On 9/27/13 4:01 PM, William Atwood wrote: >>>>> Actually, he is probably referring to the "6407 update draft", which is >>>>> draft-weis-gdoi-iec62351-9-02. This is an update to 6407 precisely to >>>>> serve the IEC needs. I suspect that the email is a plea for fast action >>>>> on progressing draft-weis to RFC. >>>>> >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 27/09/2013 1:18 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a "draft RFC". Drafts >>>>>> become RFCs, at which point they're done. You may be referring to the >>>>>> fact that RFC 6407 is labeled "proposed standard". This is a label >>>>>> that the IETF attaches to documents for which there is relatively >>>>>> little implementation experience. The label is not automatically >>>>>> changed after a while. Even things that are widely implemented and >>>>>> used by millions such as IKEv2 (RFC 5996), IPsec (RFC 4301), TLS (RFC >>>>>> 5246), and HTTP (RFC 2616), without a doubt the most popular protocol >>>>>> on the Internet) is at "draft standard" - a classification that does >>>>>> not exist any more, but was below "full standard". >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm adding Sean Turner, the Security Area Director, because he's been >>>>>> handling many similar requests recently. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope this helps >>>>>> >>>>>> Yoav >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 27, 2013, at 5:15 AM, Herb Falk >>>>> > >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> IEC TC57 WG10 (61850) and IEC TC57 WG15 (Security) has been >>>>>>> developing a technology/standard for use as a secure multicast for >>>>>>> its use in power grid applications using synchrophasors and other >>>>>>> technologies relevant to smartgrid deployments globally. >>>>>>> As part of the effort, some extensions to GDOI were identified. The >>>>>>> 6407 draft incorporates and improves some of the enhancements already >>>>>>> identified. IEC TC57 WG15 is waiting for the draft RFC to transition >>>>>>> to an RFC so it can be referenced as a normative standard in IEC 62351-9. >>>>>>> There are several utility vendors and utilities, in particular SCE >>>>>>> (Southern California Edison), that are awaiting this transition so >>>>>>> that their cyber security frameworks can be updated. Delays in the >>>>>>> transition from draft to RFC will delay implementation of several >>>>>>> projects and implementations. >>>>>>> Herbert Falk >>>>>>> Solutions Architect >>>>>>> SISCO, INC. >>>>>>> 6605 19 ½ Mile Rd. >>>>>>> Sterling Heights, MI 48314 >>>>>>> (586) 254-0020 x-105 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of >>>>>>> principle, stand like a rock." [Thomas Jefferson] >>>>>>> NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other >>>>>>> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or >>>>>>> believe that you have received this communication in error, please do >>>>>>> not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the >>>>>>> information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have >>>>>>> received this communication in error, and delete the copy you >>>>>>> received. Thank you. >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> MSEC mailing list >>>>>>> MSEC@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> MSEC mailing list >>>>>> MSEC@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/msec >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 >>>>> Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 >>>>> Department of Computer Science >>>>> and Software Engineering >>>>> Concordia University EV 3.185email:william.atwood@concordia.ca >>>>> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. Westhttp://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill >>>>> Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 >>>>> >>>> >>>> Email secured by Check Point >>> >>> >> >> Email secured by Check Point > >