From nobody Sun Nov 1 15:30:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mud@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mud@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614653A0948 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 15:30:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0-ZRZBkOmy7P for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 15:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66E4E3A0962 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 15:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CB283899E for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 18:36:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id nZtrBGsNw0B4 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 18:36:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B2053899D for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 18:36:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFED1D2 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 18:29:57 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: mud@ietf.org X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Mud] MAC Address Device Identification for Network and Application Services X-BeenThere: mud@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Manufacturer Ussage Descriptions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 23:30:04 -0000 --==-=-= Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain I think that this is particularly relevant to RFC8520 implementations. Ultimately, what I see is that we need stronger device identities with increased used of 802.1X, and devices will need to re-authenticate when they change address. --=-=-= Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=1002 Content-Description: forwarded message Return-Path: Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca [2607:f0b0:f:3::184] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-6.4.0.beta4) for (single-drop); Sun, 01 Nov 2020 18:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([unix socket]) by tuna (Cyrus git2.4.17+0-Debian-2.4.17+nocaldav-0+deb8u2) with LMTPA; Sun, 01 Nov 2020 17:04:06 -0500 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.4 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17A073899F for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 17:04:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id WDncFkHUHUH2 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 17:04:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [4.31.198.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 943EC389A0 for ; 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Sun, 01 Nov 2020 13:56:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160407478723.4708.16590139659517606146@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160407478723.4708.16590139659517606146@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Juan Carlos Zuniga Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 16:56:20 -0500 Message-ID: To: int-area@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] BoF and Non-WG Mailing List: madinas -- MAC Address Device Identification for Network and Application Services X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2067224279029139267==" Errors-To: dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org Sender: "dhcwg" --===============2067224279029139267== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d706ff05b312b35b" --000000000000d706ff05b312b35b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello all, At IETF109 there will be a BoF to discuss MAC address randomization and implications on network and application services. If you are interested in the topic please join the mailing list. A draft agenda of the BoF can be found here: https://github.com/jlivingood/IETF109BoF/blob/master/109-Agenda.md Best, Juan-Carlos ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: IETF Secretariat Date: Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 12:19 PM Subject: New Non-WG Mailing List: madinas -- MAC Address Device Identification for Network and Application Services To: IETF Announcement List Cc: , , A new IETF non-working group email list has been created. List address: madinas@ietf.org Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/madinas/ To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/madinas Purpose: This list is for discussion of the MAC Address Device Identification for Network and Application Services (MADINAS) BOF at IETF 109. Major operating systems have implemented and deployed MAC Address randomization features to enhance device and user privacy, as randomization can help avoid device identification. Device identification by MAC address is often used in ways that do not invade privacy, but that provides useful services to the device user. These services include network optimization, access control, usage counting, and security and user protection services. Some examples are LAN forwarding policy, sticky DHCP IP assignments, static NAT policy and MAC address ACL for blocking malicious or unwanted devices. In those situations, the deployment of MAC address randomization results in unintended and likely unforeseen impacts to the network, systems and applications external to the device implementing randomization. This illustrates a potential need for the networking community (OS vendors, device manufacturers, application developers and network operators) to work more closely together to solve the needs of the end users. In some cases, a greater awareness by Network and Application Services to current MAC address usage may be enough. For other cases, a new solution may need to be developed and standardized to reach the desired outcome. The proponents of this BoF are interested in determining if there is sufficient support in the IETF community to define best practices, update any existing documents if needed, or potentially develop new protocols or mechanisms for service continuity in the presence of MAC Address randomization. This list belongs to IETF area: INT For additional information, please contact the list administrators. --000000000000d706ff05b312b35b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello all,

At IETF109 there will be a B= oF to discuss MAC address randomization and implications on network and app= lication services.

If you are interested in the to= pic please join the mailing list.

A draft agenda o= f the BoF can be found here:

Best,

Juan-Carlos=C2=A0


---------- Forwarded mess= age ---------
From: IETF= Secretariat <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Oct 3= 0, 2020 at 12:19 PM
Subject: New Non-WG Mailing List: madinas -- MAC Add= ress Device Identification for Network and Application Services
To: IETF= Announcement List <ietf-annou= nce@ietf.org>
Cc: <madina= s@ietf.org>, <j.c.zuniga@= ieee.org>, <evyncke@cisco.c= om>


A new IETF non-working group email list has bee= n created.

List address: madinas= @ietf.org
Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/= madinas/
To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mad= inas

Purpose:
This list is for discussion of the MAC Address Device Identific= ation for Network and Application Services (MADINAS) BOF at IETF 109.
Major operating systems have implemented and deployed MAC Address randomi= zation features to enhance device and user privacy, as randomization can he= lp avoid device identification. Device identification by MAC address is oft= en used in ways that do not invade privacy, but that provides useful servic= es to the device user. These services include network optimization, access = control, usage counting, and security and user protection services. Some ex= amples are LAN forwarding policy, sticky DHCP IP assignments, static NAT po= licy and MAC address ACL for blocking malicious or unwanted devices. In tho= se situations, the deployment of MAC address randomization results in unint= ended and likely unforeseen impacts to the network, systems and application= s external to the device implementing randomization.

This illustrate= s a potential need for the networking community (OS vendors, device manufac= turers, application developers and network operators) to work more closely = together to solve the needs of the end users. In some cases, a greater awar= eness by Network and Application Services to current MAC address usage may = be enough. For other cases, a new solution may need to be developed and sta= ndardized to reach the desired outcome. The proponents of this BoF are inte= rested in determining if there is sufficient support in the IETF community = to define best practices, update any existing documents if needed, or poten= tially develop new protocols or mechanisms for service continuity in the pr= esence of MAC Address randomization.=C2=A0
This list belongs to IETF area: INT

For additional information, please contact the list administrators.
--000000000000d706ff05b312b35b-- --===============2067224279029139267== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg --===============2067224279029139267==-- --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-=-- --==-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl+fRPUACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWzSQgAwqVsO30PPQ4ZS1DhPghKkaDHH50vavrw6CYJ4Emh0N3Stv9FeMEzLNm2 hCn5G9/kO8FnK+4qg2mo7gEVdmCIbsg/+0m/dYZX35aFsI3H9vzYYWC2JnavGwPS 29L2bj3HzJ1pFE3Ld2BIA6Vh+8px+GjvvZROKFPTxzYLPb2ma8e2cLt+5geNqtwg iWYXqkXWtWZdlHQob3Mu6HdnD+UFEvifcbCP2Uf3F2HmfZLTEbjxUc6aVnoWVU5W /xRbRMZBUxaI8xQ2AFVybm7Bj3SFcqNpPdLd/DxJm2/Xm8UT15V361Ztdihksg56 SGIt/bHpJnUwUDkfxJ/g25kJykOANg== =vnzi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==-=-=-- From nobody Mon Nov 2 11:45:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mud@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mud@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F723A0CCE for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 09:08:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_GOV_DKIM_AU=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bLnOvDGHt0oG for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 09:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from GCC02-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3gcc02on2093.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.91.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7015D3A0CF2 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 09:08:11 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=KSLQCrLU1d3Cj+MD5dr3ofzrH2IR+Oxcl9EYTcESzu2rpUaOrgZAMWL/o2BvHn/+8MkZU8udBmLrzoj6+AUX0vQ0yVXJ0SrFspvu7cIc/O5JBCWLUQhQN3skQ1KJGpEsf0RGQ4m0Bt3BTm//sP1uHhQ3QMSKduidshVhq0/YDkcZ8+YhHUSX5QFRf+nw0/vFykevb5StsS5LcZHZ+rAP7VTahXj3oPpOL0Bi489j6+yrSVrD1Ta/G4VrsEgHcEZqOTPiGPgjmQ7sRosV3FSJCioUyITFRZ5TPQNk06ZolFKSaQWI4RIhgEGUQDMsH7gyd9fvvVnWweiosaPmHnpZlw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=IiFYRcUKwel4d8qHCz7ICkd+HV9LGcDm3pM4lduC1kg=; b=QL4HQf6PfAH5BbW14VJ6wbhAPwWREThXEysga36ncsNFOBEY5ouL1oIEdHcRJ7YwnRxy53xGvgjD/anWyLGOLspKVJ6KMmzRu7OpiienVku/wF3Bf4UCekXxrvIm69wU2ArDROTE3brnaqjR+syJFVwKFfTuDWHu+J++1XaK8/O9s0eCu8to1Uiq7R8zZlIrOhitWuK+urcMhEB4QE8VLkSpnJXZiKNB/CQVmoAcaZPLbUF1tARM6Pvoo7yEE7h6/44efpalQh+aC8Gfh8uxagOK9gffSk/JfY/hGtwbxGAuRYzowXizK3asFSVebRerCnOitZvREtPF7oxKpE8+fw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nist.gov; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nist.gov; dkim=pass header.d=nist.gov; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nist.gov; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=IiFYRcUKwel4d8qHCz7ICkd+HV9LGcDm3pM4lduC1kg=; b=Rcfluiq2dTDGZr0gpLB6rgGMtlO7KPie4oy/VZIF8V2Eg6FzguGxNOjCPZ1mql/rlaxv/3hMKDoRAgyPagBPBFUs9A8V1sNTWzcVsDTbCOZPG4YSnAvrFiPk39uA57/Q/cZzqWciacj/xo/YfaFDeMpfcjKblRX+ojB6wkbQAdY= Received: from DM6PR09MB5462.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:272::16) by DM6PR09MB5845.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:266::10) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3499.24; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 17:08:10 +0000 Received: from DM6PR09MB5462.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::78fb:6614:38a7:7353]) by DM6PR09MB5462.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::78fb:6614:38a7:7353%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3477.028; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 17:08:10 +0000 From: "Watrobski, Paul T. (Ctr)" To: "mud@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: MUD at IETF 109 Hackathon Thread-Index: AQHWsTq9Yrp9C+qVYUGlCnRYnY66UQ== Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 17:08:10 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [2610:20:6b01:253::a1] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1f365b62-7494-4b9d-269a-08d87f51e065 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR09MB5845: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:5236; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: vDwSXMiu6L7+zU0IqakHiqJJXn4Xb0l9E2BSsToXrkP6V2ChXaTxNghqcf9nKr2BFV0/695wWZCY+/IZOLgdhE4Ftwi93PWmzr3W8DRMGH9XDA9U10F5yBcksW9SlpDwnESh1cBUDTveNiVuib5ZGfYW1828io+AYWVe8XJA7n+oCIcpyvmi0euhBo1W1n6GozNN6YOGpYPrZEQM4iGKZ/xEptxz4PFWVsNGmot6aS8s4lGzjeLjU5D5We3/QaCIOQUrW8lCgcj2s3Yfaa/LQ7C7/HGm8VdDMTrzz0yW9s2p2VDaFRJkhIbZFHdlDHFER+TY/3f8ya5vvbkX1ZaTsyBdyXD3H319Ng2K96sHrCTgG9Dvv9hIC1MS9YU/ZMvszxf3j0kWD9bs4kt8ZP55XA== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DM6PR09MB5462.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(39850400004)(376002)(396003)(346002)(366004)(136003)(2616005)(316002)(6512007)(5660300002)(8936002)(6506007)(166002)(86362001)(99936003)(6916009)(76116006)(91956017)(966005)(66446008)(71200400001)(36756003)(2906002)(6486002)(186003)(64756008)(66946007)(478600001)(66556008)(66476007)(66616009)(8676002)(33656002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6B9A2AEF-B97D-4E7E-BBC7-AFA8164EFEAA"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR09MB5462.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1f365b62-7494-4b9d-269a-08d87f51e065 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Nov 2020 17:08:10.6221 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: RmxoHl77X7lgggG8ihylUuCim37AAXPUJxnhtDXaluBQMKbsxe1VHyRt8us+BJZS X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR09MB5845 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 11:45:00 -0800 Subject: [Mud] MUD at IETF 109 Hackathon X-BeenThere: mud@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Manufacturer Ussage Descriptions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:08:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6B9A2AEF-B97D-4E7E-BBC7-AFA8164EFEAA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9AB026E0-B3AD-42D9-9E14-CE33E5BE7CF9" --Apple-Mail=_9AB026E0-B3AD-42D9-9E14-CE33E5BE7CF9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi MUD Members! The MUD group will be hosing a table on Gather.town at the IETF 109 = Hackathon next week, Nov 9-13. The table is to-be-announced. Up-to-date = information regarding the project =E2=80=9CMUD, MUD-PD, and such=E2=80=9D = can be found here = and the = up-to-date schedule can be found here = . = The projects surround evaluating and improving the MUD-PD tool = , for characterizing IoT device = behavior and generating MUD files. To assist with scheduling, please fill out this Doodle Poll = to provide your availability and/or when you=E2=80=99ll be able to = dedicate time on the project(s). We will be hosting two sets of = =E2=80=9Coffice hours=E2=80=9D each day (currently planned for 9a-12p = and 9p-12a EDT (2-5 UTC)) when we will be available to answer questions = and can check in with the participants on progress. In addition to these = times, we strongly encourage all participants to join the table to = collaborate outside those hours as we will be doing so; filling out the = Doodle Poll will help with this planning. Looking forward to seeing you virtually at the Hackathon! Regards, Paul Watrobski "MUD, MUD-PD, and such" Champion Hackathon Project(s) Page: = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/109hackathon = Hackathon Team Schedule: = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/109hackathon/teamschedule = Hackathon Availability Doodle Poll: = https://doodle.com/poll/78gv9qupd8u36x3f?utm_source=3Dpoll&utm_medium=3Dli= nk = MUD-PD GitHub: https://github.com/usnistgov/MUD-PD = = --Apple-Mail=_9AB026E0-B3AD-42D9-9E14-CE33E5BE7CF9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi = MUD Members!

The MUD group = will be hosing a table on Gather.town at the IETF 109 Hackathon next = week, Nov 9-13. The table is to-be-announced. Up-to-date information = regarding the project =E2=80=9CMUD, MUD-PD, and such=E2=80=9D can be = found here and the up-to-date schedule can be = found here. The projects surround evaluating and = improving the MUD-PD tool, for characterizing IoT device behavior and = generating MUD files.

To assist with = scheduling, please fill out this Doodle Poll to provide your = availability and/or when you=E2=80=99ll be able to dedicate time on the = project(s). We will be hosting two sets of =E2=80=9Coffice hours=E2=80=9D = each day (currently planned for 9a-12p and 9p-12a EDT (2-5 UTC)) when we = will be available to answer questions and can check in with the = participants on progress. In addition to these times, we strongly = encourage all participants to join the table to collaborate outside = those hours as we will be doing so; filling out the Doodle Poll will = help with this planning.

Looking = forward to seeing you virtually at the Hackathon!


Regards,

Paul = Watrobski
"MUD, MUD-PD, and such" Champion

Hackathon Project(s) Page: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/109hackathon
Hackathon Team Schedule: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/109hackathon/teams= chedule
Hackathon Availability Doodle Poll: https://doodle.com/poll/78gv9qupd8u36x3f?utm_source=3Dpoll&= utm_medium=3Dlink
MUD-PD GitHub: https://github.com/usnistgov/MUD-PD
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X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WFk9qcMQTwBh; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 15:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB0743A14D9; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 15:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 208C6389A3; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 18:45:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id iId0BP4_ly2X; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 18:45:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36655389A2; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 18:45:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A876D1F9; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 18:38:11 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: opsawg@ietf.org, Qin Wu , mud@ietf.org Reply-To: mud@ietf.org CC: iotops@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mud] Review comments on draft-richardson-opsawg-mud-acceptable-urls-02 X-BeenThere: mud@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Manufacturer Ussage Descriptions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 23:39:33 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A new version of I-D, draft-richardson-opsawg-mud-acceptable-urls-03.txt has been successfully submitted by Michael Richardson and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-richardson-opsawg-mud-acceptable-urls Revision: 03 Title: Authorized update to MUD URLs Document date: 2020-11-02 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 11 URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-richardson-opsawg-mud= -acceptable-urls-03.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-richardson-opsawg-mu= d-acceptable-urls/ Html: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-richardson-opsawg-mud= -acceptable-urls-03.html Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-richardson-opsawg-mud-acc= eptable-urls-03 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-richardson-opsawg= -mud-acceptable-urls-03 Based upon unicast comments I received, I have posted a -03 version that ha= s the following changes: > Suggest to add a paragraph to summarize MUD URL updating and MULD file > updating are two options, also explain why MUD URL or files need to be > updated? How about? # Updating MUD URLs vs Updating MUD files +There are two ways in which a manufacturer can change what the is processe= d by the MUD controller: they can change what is in the MUD file (update-in= -place), and or they change which file is processed by the MUD controller b= y changing the URL (updated-url). + > 2. Section 2.1 > How does the end device know the capabilities need to be added or > removed? Is there signaling exchange between end device and firmware > server? If yes, please add reference or clarification text. No, the end device has no knowledge in the device of its capabilities. This is knowledge in the device. The knowledge resides in the manufacturer who creates the MUD file by human= action. > If the device detected the firmware update, does it use the same MUD > URL to retrieve the MUD file? When? The MUD controller (which is not the device, but some role in the network orchestration), is the thing that retrieves the MUD file. Whether or not it uses the same MUD URL or not, is the topic of this sectio= n. > 3. Section 2.1.3 > I see section 2.1.3 are special example of adding capabilities and > removing capabilities? Consolidated into section 2.1.1, 2.1.2? I split out section 2.1.3 so that it could be referred to. In this case, it is unclear if it is adding or removing capabilities. It seems a special, and interesting case. > Is there any software or firmware update in the firewall device or > middlebox when TLS profile is retrieved? This is definitely an issue. There could be, and there has much discussion during the adoption process for I-D.reddy-opsawg-mud-tls about this. Not in scope for this document. > 4. Section 3 said: > " > It should be noted that [RFC8520] > has not established a trust model for MUD controllers to determine wh= ether a signature from a specific > entity is legitimate as a signature for a particular device. > " > Don't understand this sentence, can you give an example to explain > this? I've rewritten like this: =2DIt should be noted that {{RFC8520}} has not established a trust model fo= r MUD controllers to =2Ddetermine whether a signature from a specific entity is legitimate as a =2Dsignature for a particular device. {{RFC8520}} leaves this to the indus= try to work out through supply chain arrangements or other heuristics. +While {{RFC8520}} has established a mechanism for signing of MUD files, th= e document does not define a way for a MUD controller to determine who shou= ld sign the MUD file for a particular device. + +{{RFC8520}} leaves this for a local policy. +There are any number of processes that could be used, but they require coo= rdination of many players. +It is expected that each industrial vertical will work out supply chain ar= rangements or other heuristics. I think that a lot could be said, but I don't want to go down a rathole her= e. Maybe I should? > 5. Section 7 > Is MUD File updating more related to RFC8520 while MUD URL update is > something proposed by this document? > What's your recommendation to the implementers or developer when they > face the choice of MUD URL updating or MUD file updating? Assuming that this document is adopted and MUD controllers implement it, th= en I would set a new MUD URL whenever there was a firmware update that created any change to the behaviour. I would reserve MUD file changes (which also involves signature updates) to fixing bugs in the MUD file only. I have updated: ## Updating files vs Updating MUD URLs + +Device developers need to consider whether to make a change by updating a = MUD file, or updating the MUD URL. + +MUD URLs can only be updated by shipping a new firmware. +It is reasonable to update the MUD URL whenever a new firmware release cau= ses new connectivity to be required. +The updated mechanism defined in this document makes this a secure operati= on, and there is no practical limitation on the number of files that a web = server can hold. + +In place updates to a MUD file should be restricted to cases where it turn= s out that the description was inaccurate: a missing connection, an inadver= tent one authorized, or just incorrect information. + +Developers should be aware that many enterprise web sites use outsourced c= ontent distribution networks, and MUD controllers are likely to cache files= for some time. +Changes to MUD files will take some time to propogate through the various = caches. +An updated MUD URL will however, not experience any cache issues, but can = not be deployed with a firmware update. + + =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl+gmGMACgkQgItw+93Q 3WV0jQgAi4V6lsBQBLmzD5K/UQh6K90pzvP/ANp9/eLXSm3uvH+LnzFiIEnsUkFm gEWKF+yJb/QxsgLKl8PYyhHvpzl4CMIXqMMVVbRNEBuIxTRRVuunfv8REjUyyV2E RKIqglxZ1XQJceCxd8hm1EwZMugxD6Uxi+k6vuPSkBkHqG4iWwzTkVB0Ab/1xmMc IOniOhm9jeUMq4cHyhqzOD8QhnQv0haw6imPo82mDtjKCn3so9JFHeAGjvSuxxzS 63fuIHMnQYzhe9eiHQfm8sRuwActQ/1yk5qFHnaVkSL+scJ49kBJ9qmMskTyoT88 M56PCUkJa5ivX8tXA2/qHcmxarYvGg== =HeU7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Nov 9 06:58:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mud@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mud@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00193A0E08 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 06:58:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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d="scan'208";a="28544119" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 09 Nov 2020 14:58:48 +0000 Received: from ams3-vpn-dhcp5299.cisco.com (ams3-vpn-dhcp5299.cisco.com [10.61.84.178]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 0A9EwlxX007927 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:58:48 GMT From: Eliot Lear Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 15:58:47 +0100 To: mud@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.84.178, ams3-vpn-dhcp5299.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Mud] Hangin out at the MUD table in the Hackathon X-BeenThere: mud@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Manufacturer Ussage Descriptions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 14:58:54 -0000 Stop by when you can. https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/109hackathon