From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Thu May 1 04:08:10 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01887 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 04:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4186F3U007216; Thu, 1 May 2003 10:06:15 +0200 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:3ffe:501:100c:d120::53]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4185Z3U007208 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 10:05:40 +0200 Received: from juryan (unknown [3ffe:501:100c:d220:220:e0ff:fe89:e01]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 928B25D00D; Thu, 1 May 2003 17:05:19 +0900 (JST) From: Julien Charbon To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com Cc: Pascal Thubert Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Message-Id: <20030501180505.32f29f8e.julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 18:05:05 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pascal, Hi all, first, excuse me for my second mail [1]. You can put in your trash. I'm so sorry. On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:00:11 +0100 "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" wrote: > I like your work very much. Very useful and constructive :) I hope > we keep your pictures in the final taxonomy. Thanks you. I will try to continue as well. > A general remark, the fact that the multiple careofs are one the > same interface or on different interfaces does not strike me as > relevant. There must be a way for the MR to sort out the available > careOfs and use the best one(s). The interface that provides a > careOf is relevant in that selection. But the protocol to the Home > Agent is not impacted, is it? Well, It depends if you have just one bi-directionnal tunnel between one HA and one MR or several. But the Nemo-Requirement says : R02: The solution MUST set up a bi-directional tunnel between MR and MR's Home Agent. ^ R03: All traffic exchanged between a MNN and a CN in the global Internet MUST transit through the bidirectional tunnel. ^^^ And so just ONE tunnel. Maybe this case will never be a part of Nemo Basic Support. Conclusion: You are right. But Thierry said me the case with several tunnels is not exclude in Nemo Basic Support, and that could exist a kind of modularity to manage this case. > > So for the Tarzan you can have: > > > > - One multi-addressed MR. > > > > AR2 [P2] > > _ _ _____ > > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| | > > _ |-|_|-| _ | |-| _ > > |_|-| |-|_|-|_____| | _ |-|_| > > |-|_|-| > > | > > AR1 [P1] > > > > MNNs MR Internet AR HA > > > > > > - One "Multi-egress-interfaced" MR. > > _____ > > _ _ | | > > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| |-| _ > > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| > > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > > | > > > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > > > > > - Two MR in multi-site case. > > > > P > > ---> > > _ _____ > > _ |-|_|-| _ | | > > |_|-| |-|_|-| |-| _ > > _ | | |_____| | _ |-|_| > > |_|-| _ | |-|_|-| > > |-|_|-| | > > > > ---> > > P > > > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > Yes, they are all Tarzan. The most typical in my mind is: > Note that the [=] sign is extended to mean 'may or may not be the same > interface' > > AR2 [P2] > _ _ _____ > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| | > _ |-|_|= _ | |-| _ > |_|-| |-|_|-|_____| | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| > | > AR1 [P1] > > MNNs MR Internet AR HA > I see. Now this part is clear for me. In the same way and to clean my Shinkansen & DoubleBed graphicals: - In the previous graphicals and in my mind it was: P1 ---> The Mobile Network Prefix which is in Prefix Binding Update. [Too complex to understand in my graphics] - Now it is: P1 <--- The Mobile Network Prefix announced in the Mobile Network by the Mobile Router. - The term Egress Router not exist in Nemo-Terminology. Mobile Router is enough: The MR has one or more egress interface(s) and one or more ingress interface(s). And so: o Shinkansen: [Single Mobile Network Prefix announced by Mobile Routers in the Mobile Network] Example with two Egress Routers. P <---- MR2 _ | _ |-|_|-| _____ |_|-| |-| | _ | | |-| _ |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| |-|_|-| |-|_|-| | | MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA <---- P o DoubleBed: [Multiple Mobile Network Prefix announced by Mobile Router in the Mobile Network] Example with two Egress Routers. P2 <---- MR2 _ | _ |-|_|-| _____ |_|-| |-| | _ | | |-| _ |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| |-|_|-| |-|_|-| | | MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA <---- P1 Example with one Egress Router. [Rarely used but... It exists] P2 _____ _ <--- _ | | |_|-| _ |-|_|-| | _ |-|_|-| |_____|-| _ |_|-| | | _ |-|_| <--- |-|_|-| P1 | MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA2 [This example is maybe not a good one because the MR have two Ingress Addresses and so the Nemo protocol must deal with] [Maybe too particular] > > In all this examples the HA will have two CoAs for the > > same prefix in one HA. According with your definition they > > are Tarzan cases. > > Shinkansen and doubleBed are Tarzans by definition. Aarrgh ! My comprehension ! Example : [HAx is the Home Agent for the MRx Mobile Router] P AR HA1 <--- MR1 _ | _ | |-|_|-| _ _ |-|_|-| _____ | |-|_| |_|-| |-| |-| _ | | | |_|-| _ |-|_____|-| _ |-|_|-| | _ |-|_| | |-|_|-| | MNNs MR2 Internet <--- P AR HA2 This case is Shinkansen: [The same Mobile Network Prefix is advertise to the MNNs] But a JetSet case too: [Not a Tarzan case] [Multiple HAs for CoAs of a same Mobile Network Prefix] But it is just a detail. > > > Any IPv6 node may build multiple global addresses. Long as we do > > > not register several CareOfs at the same time, it's not a Nemo > > > issue, it's a standard feature. > > > > I just add a remark : > > > > - Example with one MR multi-addressed. > > > > AR2 [P2] > > _ _ _____ > > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| | > > _ |-|_|-| _ | |-| _ > > |_|-| |-|_|-|_____| | _ |-|_| > > |-|_|-| > > | > > AR1 [P1] > > > > MNNs MR Internet AR HA > > > > P1/P2: Differents IPv6 /64 Prefix. > > > > And of course Ingress Filtering is made on AR1 and AR2. > > > > So the MR may have this two IPv6 global address : > > > > P2:EUI-64-MR and P1:EUI-64-MR > > > > If the bi-directional tunnel between the MR and the HA pass > > through AR2 and if AR2 is destroyed by Tarzan anger [the real > > one] and so its reachability to the Internet lost, how the > > NEMO mechanism should deal with this case ? > > So I think Multi-Addressed Multi-Homing is an important > > case in NEMO, not just a standard fearture. [But maybe I'm > > wrong]. Also maybe it will be resolve by the same mechanism > > in NEMO, so I put it with the Multi-Interfaced case. > > Reread me well: I meant that if you register only one CareOf at a given > point of time, it is a standard MIP flows. > If a MIP MN sees 2 ARs on a link, it can build 2 careOfs, but can only > bind the primary. If the primary careOf fails to bind, or times out > rebinding, a standard MIP MN should go try the next available careOf. > That process is not necessarily described in MIPv6, but should it? With this explanation, is clear for me now [again]. And effectively is a standard issue for an Ipv6 Mobile Node. [In my mind it was for all Ipv6 Node]. > Now, if you have 2 concurent tunnels, it is a whole new problem, to be > designed :) . The HA may try to load balance over the 2 tunnels, and if > one dies, we must make sure the HA knows quite fast. For instance by > encapsulating over TCP or SCTP. > Anyway, it's one of the good problems to resolve if we want multiple > careOfs. Yes. Now the fact is to know if it is a required feature in Nemo Basic Support or is for Nemo Next Generation. But I think the management of Multiple CoAs per Network Prefix may provide to Nemo some interesting Multi-Homing benefits like : o Fault-Tolerance/Redundancy. o Load-Sharing. o Policy Management. And it is possible to deploy because [in Nemo Basic Support] all traffic past in tunnel(s) between HA(s) and MR(s) and so the traffic in this tunnel can be policed as you wish. [You don't touch at Correspondant Node Mobile Ipv6 Stack]. In Mobile Ipv6 is harder to realize/deploy. But I don't forget the Pandora's box style of Multi-Homing. > Multihoming is not trivial, we'll have to decide whether to amend the > requirements draft for basic about that. So Nemo Basic Support can support only the Redundancy Multi-Homing benefit; or more benefits [Load-Sharing, Policy] and become more complex. [Too complex for a Basic Support ?] Maybe the design team have a begin of answer. > > > Comments anyone? > > > > I think you have found the good discrimants to classify the > > Multi-Homing in NEMO. So I have just read the Chan Wah Ng's > > mail [2], and just by taking again his classification and ours : > > > > And I obtain (w, x, y) : > > > > with > > > > w: 0: A Mobile Router have more than one Global IPv6 Address. > > OR a Mobile Router have more than one Interface. > > 1: There is more then one Egress Mobile Router. > > > I expect that in any case you imply that multiple CareOfs are registered > in parallel, right? Yes, I think you are right [again]. Now I understand your proposition with "only" four classes of problem. > > x: 0: There is single HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. > > 1: There is muliple HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. > > > > I meant mobile prefixes, no the prefix that the careOf is built upon. > I'm sure you mean that too? Yes, I rewrite sharper: x: 0: There is single HA for CoAs of a same Mobile Network Prefix. 1: There are muliple HA for CoAs of a same Mobile Network Prefix. > > y: 0: A single Prefix is announced by Egress Router(s). > > 1: Muliple Prefix are announced by Egress Router(s). > > I meant present on INGRESS; see the discussion with Hesham; is this a > typo or is there a misunderstanding between us? Yes, this definition provide misunderstanding, I rewrite : y: 0: A single Mobile Network Prefix is announced by Mobile Router(s). 1: Muliple Mobile Network Prefix are announced by Mobile Router(s). or the Chan Wah Ng's one is better [more general]: y: 0: A single prefix is advertise to the MNNs 1: More than one prefices is advertised to the MNNs or maybe your definition is more understandable and the good one: y: 0: Same Mobile Network Prefix for Mobile Router of the same link. 1: Differents Mobile Network Prefix for Mobile Router of the same link. or I really misunderstand. [It is an another possibility] So an interresting case to clear this point : _ p1 MR1 AR1 HA1 |_|-| <--_ ISP1 ________ _ |---|_|--------| | | _ |_|-| | |-| _ |-|_| \ <-- | | |-|_|-| Intern \_ p1 | | | Router |_| |Internet| / p2 | | _ / <-- | | | _ |_|-| _ | |-| _ |-|_| _ |---|_|--------|________| |-|_|-| |_|-| <-- ISP2 ISP3 | p2 MR2 MNN AR2 HA2 This case is a DoubleBed case because if the ISP1 link fail the problem is: How past the p1 prefix's packets through the MR2_HA2 tunnel then through the AR2 link with the Cerberus Ingress Filtering made by ISP3. [An example of solution is in [2] [Section 3.2.2., Using Alternate Mobile Router]] So my preferred definition is the Chan Wah Ng's one: y: 0: A single prefix is advertise to the MNNs 1: More than one prefices is advertised to the MNNs > I do agree with your vision. My view is a summarization to focus on > where the problems are in my own view. We may start your standpoint and > see what are the meaningful case between the 8 combinations. For > instance (0,0,1) is a trivial extension of (0,0,0). I think you want to write : "For instance (1,0,0) is a trivial extension of (0,0,0)" > Like this, we'll find my 4 problems, and other if I missed some? Do > you want to pursue that way? Pascal So, is it enough ? [Two days of reflection later...] So the main goal of a taxonomy is to define a class of problem, name it, and permit to say after: The solution for the problem is ... With this four classes can we say the solution for the Tarzan problem is ... ? Difficult because - for example - this two cases need differents solutions: - One "Multi-egress-interfaced" MR. P _____ _ <-- _ | | |_|-| _ |-|_|-| |-| _ _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| |_|-| | |-|_|-| | MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA - Two MR in multi-site case. P <--- _ _____ _ |-|_|-| _ | | |_|-| |-|_|-| |-| _ _ | | |_____| | _ |-|_| |_|-| _ | |-|_|-| |-|_|-| | <--- P MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA And this two examples are Shinkansen too. So it is why [maybe] an another level [w] would be appreciable. What is your position on this specific example ? Well, I think you provide elsewhere the good taxonomy. Thanks you for your judicious and constructives remarks. -- Julien [1] http://www.nal.motlabs.com/pipermail/nemo/2003-April/000567.html [2] http://www.psl.com.sg/draft-ng-nemo-multihoming-issues-00.txt From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Thu May 1 05:00:18 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02787 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 04:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h419133U007411; Thu, 1 May 2003 11:01:04 +0200 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:3ffe:501:100c:d120::53]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h419033U007381 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 11:00:05 +0200 Received: from galibier.sfc.wide.ad.jp (galibier.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.143.153]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 795E25D00D; Thu, 1 May 2003 17:59:54 +0900 (JST) From: Thierry Ernst To: Julien Charbon , nemo@nal.motlabs.com, pthubert@cisco.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Message-Id: <20030501175737.789ea1ba.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030501180505.32f29f8e.julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp> References: <20030501180505.32f29f8e.julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 17:57:37 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Guys, just a clarification note. > R02: The solution MUST set up a bi-directional tunnel between > MR and MR's Home Agent. ^ > > R03: All traffic exchanged between a MNN and a CN in the global > Internet MUST transit through the bidirectional tunnel. > ^^^ > > And so just ONE tunnel. Maybe this case will never be a part of Nemo > Basic Support. Conclusion: You are right. > > But Thierry said me the case with several tunnels is not exclude in > Nemo Basic Support, and that could exist a kind of modularity to > manage this case. If R02 was saying there MUST be only one tunnel, it would say it explictly. Probably something like "The solution MUST set up ONE and ONLY ONE bi-directional tunnel". But we never came to this conclusion. The requirement is sufficienly loose so that it cannot be exluded nor enforced. Thierry -- Thierry Ernst, WIDE at Keio University, Japan From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Thu May 1 16:50:08 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10375 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 16:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h41KoL3U010271; Thu, 1 May 2003 22:50:22 +0200 Received: from multihop.net ([192.103.16.205]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h41Kn53U010259 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 22:49:06 +0200 Received: from [64.36.73.242] (homegw.kniveton.com [64.36.73.242]) by multihop.net (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h41KngGi057880 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:49:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tj@kniveton.com) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 From: "T.J. Kniveton" To: NeMo Discussion Subscribers Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [nemo] Design Team update Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 13:49:00 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NEMO members, We would like to update you on the status of the base draft creation. At the last meeting (IETF56), the working group expressed a consensus to use the MRTP draft as a starting point, and then edit it to include input and features from the other candidates. The WG also asked that the existing draft authors be the members of an editing team (a.k.a. design team). According to these wishes, the design team has been formed and a mailing list set up, and the work is underway. The target for a draft is the end of May, at which time the draft will be shared with the entire WG for review. With this schedule, we intend to stay on-target for our group milestones, and we will have material for the IETF57 meeting this summer. Thanks, TJ & Thierry From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Fri May 2 12:56:11 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20822 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 12:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h42GsJ3U015341; Fri, 2 May 2003 18:54:19 +0200 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h42Grk3U015330 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 18:53:47 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 May 2003 18:53:26 +0100 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h42Gphwr008586; Fri, 2 May 2003 18:51:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 2 May 2003 18:53:37 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Thread-Index: AcMPa7D3d9Da4mRPSqOZN8zkltphcwBVM0SQ From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Erik Nordmark" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2003 16:53:37.0347 (UTC) FILETIME=[601DB130:01C310CB] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by jessica.nal.motlabs.com id h42Grk3U015330 Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:53:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > We did not really omit that case (ain't it JetSet, see below:). The > > note you attach was about static routes. The topic there > was whether > > we wanted to enter the domain of dynamic routes between the > HA and the > > MR. The discussion was that dynamic routes seem to be quite > inevitable > > if you want some forms of multihoming; as a result multihoming => > > complex basic spec, slow to mature. > > I completely fail to understand how you come to this > conclusion. The basic spec would say how to establish the > HA-MR tunnels and can be utterly silent on the fact that > existing routing protocols can run over these tunnels. Some > people call this modularity. > Well... the req draft still includes multihoming, that's the problem. And we've been discussing whether multihoming made sense without dynamic routes, which is a name for the dynamic update by the MR to the HA about its prefixes. Seems multihoming will require dynamic routes (see my 1st mail on 4/23 on this thread). Now we are working on a taxonomy of multihoming cases. Actually I'm more interested in a taxonomy of the problems than of the cases. Chan Wah and Julien have been helping a lot clearing up the issue. > > If the HAs were coordinated by the local (legacy) IGP: > > > > A) Frequent movement of many routers may disrupt the > workings of the > > IGP in the HA AS > > Unless you have a very different model than I have this isn't > true. The HA<->MR tunnel getting a different CoA would not be > visible to the routing protocol at all. > Right. The movement we've been talking was home/leave-home/back-home. An other case is register, deregister. That's the kind of action that may cause trouble in the IGP. Anyway, one thing is a given HA's AS or at least it's area, as you mention later. A second is a home link. (A third would be a newly created HA group for HA to HA advertisements). There's often a confusion between the first 2, even though everybody understands what they are. The confusion is about the impact of a registration. Everybody agrees that it should be contained between the HAs and should not impact the rest of the world. In other words, that the HAs should globally advertise the aggregation of the mobile networks. The impact of the movement I'm talking about can be limited to the HAs if: - there's no involvement of the IGP (today this means use ND and static routes only) Or if - the HAs and MR form their own AS (this is the confusion, assuming home link is AS). On the other hand, a multicast group of HAs may span over different ASs and if each member advertises the aggregation we're talking about, the impact of registrations and movements are contained. I'm talking about yet an other routing protocol, capable of aggregation, running over multicast groups that span over AS boundaries. A functional group. > > C) We'd loose the on-demand flavor of ND (if the 'wrong > HA' does not > > have a neighbor entry for the MR, it will look it up, and > eventually > > get an other HA, which is actually a next hop). I like this half > > proactive, half reactive behavior when it comes to a high rate of > > movemement. > > You seem to have either a conceptual model or an > implementation model of how Nemo interacts with IP routing in > a HA and I don't understand. IP routing reacts to interface > changes and the tunnels are interfaces (conceptually, and > they have an ifindex in the MIBs), thus the IGP would take > care of the tunnels goming and going. Thus unless I > misunderstand what you mean with "on-demand" > the on-demand nature seems to be orthogonal with the IGP vs. not-IGP. > Traditional IGPs are all proactive. They assume a quite stable topology and may not cope with mobile networks so easily, for the reasons mentioned above. An interface (tunnel) state change causes a recomputation of everyone's states within an area/AS. Say on the other hand that you use something like AODV or DSR over a multicast group of HAs. When a MR registers a mobile network to a HA, the information does not have to be proactively flooded. Only if another HA gets a packet that needs to be forwarded to that mobile network will it look up a route, on demand. All the HA(s) that got registrations will source an answer to that flooding. If you look at it, when you hardcode static routes to the mobile networks via the associated MR home addresses, what happens at ND level on the home link is very much the same. If the wrong HA does not have the MR in its neighbor cache, it floods a lookup, on demand. This is why I like very much with that model. Scales well with MNet 'mobility'. > > D) If there are other routers in the AS then the HAs and > ARs then we'd > > loose the 'self-contained' aspect as well and propagate the > impact of > > MR mobility throughout a larger space. Plainly wouldn't scale with > > legacy IGPs. > > Nope. See my answer to A). > > > The question of a separate layer 3 protocol between the > HAs, was in my > > mail (3/16) with my comments on Ryuji's draft. I guess that > the idea > > of such a protocol is already present in MIP or NSIIM as well? > > MIP has a protocol for coordinating between HAs for different > Home Addresses? For the same Home Address? I've never seen > such a thing. > I think I've seen a mention to it in the MIP ML. Can't remember when exactely. > > "additional work could be required to cover the case of > multiple HAs. > > In MIPv6, the detection of multiple registration id done by > DAD on the > > home network. Since there is no home network, the detection > of double > > registration has to be done at the routing protocol level (When the > > same net is registered to a 2nd, different HA, it should > reject it if > > it got a route from the first HA... Something like that. > Note that as > > we discussed earlier, the fine grained info should be > contained in the > > HAs." > > We seem to be talking about different models. > In my model each MR (or the different interfaces on the > single MR) have a different home address, even though there > is a single prefix for the mobile network. > Right. This was about Ryuji's model. The Home Address is actually an address on the Mobile Network. I'm advocating forone such address per parallel CareOf as ID. > The above paragraph as well as A) and D) makes me believe you > have a completely different model in mind where the IGP runs > without tunnels between MR and HA. Further, in routing > protocols there is an issue of who can advertise which > routes; this is solved by configuration today even though it > is typically done at IGP/EGP boundaries and not inside an > IGP. (But the Magma anycast case is one where IGP routers > would be configured with which routes to accept from which peer.) > > Right again :) What we call dynamic mobile networks is when there's a form of advertisement by the mobile router to the HA about the mobile network (as opposed to delegation by HA or static routes in the HA). The problems you mention will have to the addresses, together with redistribition if the IGP over the tunnel is not the home net IGP. In Vijay's model it is. In Ryuji's, the advertisement is the BU itself. But even that is a simple routing protocol and has to provide a model for trust and redistribution... > > In the design list (4/11) I also pointed out that a MANET type of > > protocol could be used for the dynamic solution: > > But that is for the "no tunnels" model, right? I meant that if the HA to HA is a Manet, maybe the MRs could participate as well, over their tunnels. As an alternate to Vijay's or Ryuji's approach. Just to say the problem is not clear cut yet. Which makes basic a complex thing if we want multihoming, if I'm right that multihoming requires dynamic networks... > > Once we actually understand the high-level model for > IGP+tunnels (what I'm advocating as a way to handle > multihoming) there are at least two different ways to do the > details: 1. Actually run a routing protocol over the tunnels > between MR and HA. > This consumes some background traffic (for the hello protocol) but > the benefit is that the hello protocol will detect when there is > no longer bidirectional connectivity over a tunnel. This is what I called Vijay's model since he defends draft-kniveton > 2. Not running a routing protocol over the tunnel but instead have > the establishment of the tunnel make the HA inject the > route into the IGP. > This is what Vijay and Alex call static routes, though I think it's a misleading term. > > You see where this is all leading to: > > No, I don't see because we are making different assumptions > and have different models in mind. I don't think we want a > different routing protocol for this but instead reuse > existing ones. (There is a potential research topic on how to > do routing in a network where lots of things move, so here I > am limiting my concerns to the IETF more short-term issues.) > > > A) A topology as proposed earlier in the MIP list (was that Greg?) > > with no home network. > > I believe the prefix(es) assigned to a mobile network have a > home in the sense that they fall within a shorter prefix. And > the HoA for each MR's interface may fall in a physical home > network or a virtual home network. I meant as implied by Ryuji, no concept of returning home for a MR. But yes, the aggregation you mention has to be there, that seems kind of obvious in the background technology. > > B) A virtual network that encompasses a group of commonly > administered > > Mobile Networks. > > On what scope? Isn't this the same as the prefix I refer to above? Could be a bunch of them > > > C) HAs organised in multicast groups, one per virtual > network, many of > > them. > > Here is where you are defining a new routing protocol, right? :) > > > D) A routing protocol, maybe with a MANET origin, between > the HAs, one > > instance per multicast group > > E) A registration derived from Ruyji's draft, with maybe a > MANET twist > > to interoperate with the HA routing protocol > > F) Still from Ruyji's drafts, one MNET address per careOf, > a number of > > MNET addresses per MR. > > G) Potentially a new form of anycast, "anyone in a > multicast group", > > for DHAAD related stuff. > > For G) I think you are conflating the issues around the HoA > for the MRs and the routing advertisement for the mobile > network. DHAAD is useful for the former, but the routing > stuff could be layered cleanly on top of that. Yes. I'm not sure I understand what's wrong. I agree it's orthogonal but still it's needed, right? > I don't think we need any of what you are proposing because I > think the WG should do the basic tunnels and allow routing to > be layered on top of this. That avoids having to re-invent IP > routing and potentially do it poorly. > Never argued that against the MRHA tunnel and layering a routing protocol over it. Do you still think the second sentence is relevant is the light of this discussion? Pascal From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Sat May 3 03:55:46 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA25616 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 03:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h437pQ3U023639; Sat, 3 May 2003 09:51:27 +0200 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:3ffe:501:100c:d210:2e0:18ff:fe98:936d] (may be forged)) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h437oQ3U023631 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 09:50:29 +0200 Received: from [192.168.0.3] (pdd8831.tkyoac00.ap.so-net.ne.jp [218.221.136.49]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.9/8.12.0) with ESMTP id h437oM4X028861 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 16:50:24 +0900 From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com Message-Id: <20030503161910.15AF.RYUJI@sfc.wide.ad.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.05.01 Subject: [nemo] Answers to the questions at IETF SF Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 16:50:25 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All. >Basic Network Mobility Support - draft-wakikawa-nemo-basic-00.txt >================================================================== >The draft was presented by Thierry Ernst as Ryuji Wakikawa could not be present. >All technical questions should be directed to Ryuji via email or on the >mailing list. I was really sorry that I could not attend the NEMO meeting. I did not reply to the questions which were made at NEMO meeting in SF. Thanks Thierry for your kindly offer to make presentation instead of me. >How does this implementation hand more than one prefix for your mobile >network? If MR has multiple prefixes, then MR basically configures multiple addresses for all prefixes. If the prefixes are aggregated to send BU, then MR configures only single address for aggregated prefix. For example, if MR has P-1::/64 and P-2::/64. MR assigns two addresses as MR-A to send two separate BU for P-1 and P-2. If MR decide to manage both prefixes equally, it assigns an address which is P::/63 and sends single BU for P::/63 to HA. > There appears to be a restriction to using only one prefix. Thus, how > do you create routes at the home agent for both prefixes? instead of > having a prefix suboption? MR can take care of multiple prefixes. There is no restriction. > Question - Does one always have to maintain a binding cache entry on > the home agent, even when you're at home? Management of BC is always required at HA, but the optimization such as not using tunnel is provided. See my former mail posted to NEMO ML (4/30, Subject: Multiple Egress vs multihoming) > There was a comment that deregistration is easy with implementation. > However it is unclear as to why this would be. For example, ND operations. (Stop Proxy NDP, Re-registraion MN's NDP entry.) I remembered related discussion at MIP6 ML to let draft simple and easy. MIP6 does not have alternative solution for returning home, but our draft proposes the solution to provide advantages of returning home without deregistration procedures. regards, ryuji From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Sat May 3 07:51:49 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA28134 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 07:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h43BqB3U027376; Sat, 3 May 2003 13:52:11 +0200 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h43Bpi3U027368 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 13:51:44 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 May 2003 13:51:22 +0100 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h43BnjF7011729; Sat, 3 May 2003 13:49:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sat, 3 May 2003 13:51:37 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Thread-Index: AcMPuHU+ylWCu12FSeiqxb26uHTkxwBrtfvQ From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Julien Charbon" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2003 11:51:37.0492 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A40FD40:01C3116A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by jessica.nal.motlabs.com id h43Bpi3U027368 Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 12:51:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Julien, I'll be away from my mail fo 2 weeks. Sorry about that. > > > > I see. Now this part is clear for me. > > > In the same way and to clean my Shinkansen & DoubleBed graphicals: > > - In the previous graphicals and in my mind it was: > > P1 > ---> > > The Mobile Network Prefix which is in Prefix Binding > Update. [Too complex to understand in my graphics] > > - Now it is: > > P1 > <--- > > The Mobile Network Prefix announced in the Mobile Network by the > Mobile Router. > > P1 > > Example with one Egress Router. [Rarely used but... It exists] > > > P2 _____ > _ <--- _ | | > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| | > _ |-|_|-| |_____|-| _ > |_|-| | | _ |-|_| > <--- |-|_|-| > P1 | > > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA2 > > [This example is maybe not a good one because the MR have two > Ingress Addresses and so the Nemo protocol must deal with] > [Maybe too particular] > > > > In all this examples the HA will have two CoAs for the same > > > prefix in one HA. According with your definition they are Tarzan > > > cases. > > > > Shinkansen and doubleBed are Tarzans by definition. > > Aarrgh ! My comprehension ! Example : > > [HAx is the Home Agent for the MRx Mobile Router] > > P AR HA1 > <--- > MR1 _ | > _ | |-|_|-| _ > _ |-|_|-| _____ | |-|_| > |_|-| |-| |-| > _ | | | > |_|-| _ |-|_____|-| _ > |-|_|-| | _ |-|_| > | |-|_|-| > | > MNNs MR2 Internet > <--- > P AR HA2 > > > This case is Shinkansen: > [The same Mobile Network Prefix is advertise to the MNNs] > > But a JetSet case too: [Not a Tarzan case] > [Multiple HAs for CoAs of a same Mobile Network Prefix] > > But it is just a detail. You right :) .... > > But I think the management of Multiple CoAs per Network > Prefix may provide to Nemo some interesting Multi-Homing > benefits like : > > o Fault-Tolerance/Redundancy. > o Load-Sharing. > o Policy Management. > Absolutely. > And it is possible to deploy because [in Nemo Basic > Support] all traffic past in tunnel(s) between HA(s) and > MR(s) and so the traffic in this tunnel can be policed as you > wish. [You don't touch at Correspondant Node Mobile Ipv6 Stack]. > > In Mobile Ipv6 is harder to realize/deploy. > > But I don't forget the Pandora's box style of Multi-Homing. > > > > > Multihoming is not trivial, we'll have to decide whether to > amend the > > requirements draft for basic about that. > > So Nemo Basic Support can support only the Redundancy > Multi-Homing benefit; or more benefits [Load-Sharing, Policy] > and become more complex. [Too complex for a Basic Support ?] > > Maybe the design team have a begin of answer. Problem is that the design team implements the requirements. We must make the reqs clear cut for the design team to operate. ... > Yes, this definition provide misunderstanding, I rewrite : > > y: 0: A single Mobile Network Prefix is announced by Mobile > Router(s). > 1: Muliple Mobile Network Prefix are announced by Mobile > Router(s). > > or the Chan Wah Ng's one is better [more general]: > > y: 0: A single prefix is advertise to the MNNs > 1: More than one prefices is advertised to the MNNs > I actually like that one very much... > or maybe your definition is more understandable and the good one: > > y: 0: Same Mobile Network Prefix for Mobile Router of the same link. > 1: Differents Mobile Network Prefix for Mobile Router of > the same link. > > or I really misunderstand. [It is an another possibility] > > So an interresting case to clear this point : > > _ p1 MR1 AR1 HA1 > |_|-| <--_ ISP1 ________ > _ |---|_|--------| | | _ > |_|-| | |-| _ |-|_| > \ <-- | | |-|_|-| > Intern \_ p1 | | | > Router |_| |Internet| > / p2 | | > _ / <-- | | | _ > |_|-| _ | |-| _ |-|_| > _ |---|_|--------|________| |-|_|-| > |_|-| <-- ISP2 ISP3 | > p2 MR2 > MNN AR2 HA2 Note that one assumption is that a MN is a stub. So, MR1 will not advertise p2 even if it gets it from Intern Router, whatever. So Intern router just allows a shortcut when a node from p1 talks to a node from p2, but otherwise, this is 2 isolated MNets of a no-multihoming case, don't you think? > > This case is a DoubleBed case because if the ISP1 link fail > the problem is: > > How past the p1 prefix's packets through the MR2_HA2 tunnel > then through the AR2 link with the Cerberus Ingress Filtering > made by ISP3. > > [An example of solution is in [2] [Section 3.2.2., Using > Alternate Mobile Router]] > > So my preferred definition is the Chan Wah Ng's one: > > y: 0: A single prefix is advertise to the MNNs > 1: More than one prefices is advertised to the MNNs > > > I do agree with your vision. My view is a summarization to focus on > > where the problems are in my own view. We may start your standpoint > > and see what are the meaningful case between the 8 > combinations. For > > instance (0,0,1) is a trivial extension of (0,0,0). > > I think you want to write : > > "For instance (1,0,0) is a trivial extension of (0,0,0)" > Actually both are true :) > > Like this, we'll find my 4 problems, and other if I missed some? Do > > you want to pursue that way? Pascal > > So, is it enough ? > > [Two days of reflection later...] > > So the main goal of a taxonomy is to define a class of > problem, name it, and permit to say after: The solution for > the problem is ... That was the goal. Identify separate problems and fix them individually. > > With this four classes can we say the solution for the > Tarzan problem is ... ? Difficult because - for example - > this two cases need differents solutions: > > - One "Multi-egress-interfaced" MR. > > P _____ > _ <-- _ | | > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > | > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > This is a Tarzan, right? > > - Two MR in multi-site case. > > P > <--- > _ _____ > _ |-|_|-| _ | | > |_|-| |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ | | |_____| | _ |-|_| > |_|-| _ | |-|_|-| > |-|_|-| | > > <--- > P > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA And this is Shinkansen, and a Tarzan in this case. My point is that hopefully (with a good design approach) x and y should be orthogonal and the case you mention will need the solution for Tarzan and Shinkansen. > > And this two examples are Shinkansen too. So it is why > [maybe] an another level [w] would be appreciable. What is > your position on this specific example ? > > Well, I think you provide elsewhere the good taxonomy. > Thanks you for your judicious and constructives remarks. > > > -- Julien > > > [1] http://www.nal.motlabs.com/pipermail/nemo/2003-April/000567.html > [2] http://www.psl.com.sg/draft-ng-nemo-multihoming-issues-00.txt > From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Sat May 3 12:17:24 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02514 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 12:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h43GDA3U031029; Sat, 3 May 2003 18:13:10 +0200 Received: from motgate4.mot.com (motgate4.mot.com [144.189.100.102]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h43GC73U031004 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 18:12:08 +0200 Received: from az33exr02.mot.com (az33exr02.mot.com [10.64.251.232]) by motgate4.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate4) with ESMTP id h43GC69J003706; Sat, 3 May 2003 09:12:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from nal.motlabs.com ([163.14.20.82]) by az33exr02.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr02) with ESMTP id h43GBtbr008684; Sat, 3 May 2003 11:11:59 -0500 Message-ID: <3EB40655.6040302@nal.motlabs.com> From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryuji Wakikawa CC: nemo@nal.motlabs.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Answers to the questions at IETF SF References: <20030503161910.15AF.RYUJI@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030503161910.15AF.RYUJI@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 20:11:33 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ryuji, just a quick note here. Ryuji Wakikawa wrote: >> How does this implementation hand more than one prefix for your >> mobile network? > > > If MR has multiple prefixes, then MR basically configures multiple > addresses for all prefixes. In my view, if MR has two prefixes P-1 and P-2 for the mobile network it is presumably in order to assign prefix P-1 on the first subnet of the mobile network (the one that is attached directly to MR) and prefix P-2 to another subnet of the mobile network deeper below MR, like directly attached to a Fixed Router. In that case, it is not very natural, in my oppinion, to assign an address derived from P-2 on any of the MR's interfaces. Or maybe you assume (or the questioner assumed) that the two prefixes are both assigned to the same subnet immediately below MR? Alex GBU From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Sat May 3 12:54:14 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03011 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 12:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h43Gu23U031583; Sat, 3 May 2003 18:56:03 +0200 Received: from motgate5.mot.com (motgate5.mot.com [144.189.100.105]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h43Gt03U031541 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 18:55:01 +0200 Received: from az33exr02.mot.com (az33exr02.mot.com [10.64.251.232]) by motgate5.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate5) with ESMTP id h43GsnsI019361; Sat, 3 May 2003 09:54:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from nal.motlabs.com ([163.14.20.82]) by az33exr02.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr02) with ESMTP id h43GsZbr023734; Sat, 3 May 2003 11:54:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3EB41055.4020501@nal.motlabs.com> From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" CC: Erik Nordmark , nemo@nal.motlabs.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 20:54:13 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: >> I completely fail to understand how you come to this conclusion. >> The basic spec would say how to establish the HA-MR tunnels and can >> be utterly silent on the fact that existing routing protocols can >> run over these tunnels. Some people call this modularity. >> > > > Well... the req draft still includes multihoming, that's the problem. I do not see anything in the reqs draft related to multi-homing (R12 and R13.1-3) that can not be satisfied by a simple basic nemo protocol. As they are now, those requirements are fine with me. That does not mean that those multi-homing requirements should be refined such as to make the basic kind of solution impossible to work with multiple egress interfaces. That is also to support to trying to modify the "requirements" in the title of the draft to "goals". This has already been suggested at the NEMO meeting and I find it to be a good idea. In the particular case of multi-homing requirements, it would be fine to have it as a _goal_ to support multiple egress interfaces and multiple Mobile Routers, point bar. The simplest of the basicest nemo solutions would be lean and fit those multi-homing goals. On another hand, a strong requirement, such as "MUST support _any_ number of egress interfaces, any number of MRs, any number of HAs, with MRs switching between various HAs" would easily drive into building a network that does everything based on "NEMO multi-homing" and does no dynamic routing protocol nor the other modules. On another hand, yes, the draft on requirements should be updated in order to be kept alive after the 6-month expiration; but that can be updated with other simple modifications, like better format, coherency (R12-R13), add a Change section, eliminate the redundant "Location Privacy", etc. My two cents worth, Alex GBU From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Mon May 5 08:00:53 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA29711 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 07:59:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h45BwF3U021599; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:58:16 +0200 Received: from patan.sun.com (patan.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h45Bvl3U021591 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:57:48 +0200 Received: from bebop.France.Sun.COM ([129.157.174.15]) by patan.sun.com (8.9.3p2+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22757; Mon, 5 May 2003 05:57:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lillen (lillen [129.157.212.23]) by bebop.France.Sun.COM (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with SMTP id h45BvhL04537; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:57:43 +0200 (MEST) From: Erik Nordmark Reply-To: Erik Nordmark Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" Cc: Erik Nordmark , nemo@nal.motlabs.com In-Reply-To: "Your message with ID" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 13:57:18 +0200 (CEST) > On the other hand, a multicast group of HAs may span over different ASs > and if each member advertises the aggregation we're talking about, the > impact of registrations and movements are contained. I'm talking about > yet an other routing protocol, capable of aggregation, running over > multicast groups that span over AS boundaries. A functional group. Pascal, This sounds like an interesting research topic but seems to be outside of the scope of the WG. The WG has shorter term deliverables around tunneling HA-MR, and a deliverable around the possible approaches for route optimization, but nothing about defining some new routing protocol running over a multicast-discovered overlay of HAs. If there are multihoming issues that need to be written down and considered for the HA-MR tunneling case, the WG should do that. (And I personally think this is just an issue of not preventing multihoming by assuming e.g. one prefix per MR). But so far I've seen no plausible argument that the WG can't do that and instead should embark on some unknown new model for routing. So let's focus on the WG deliverables. Erik From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Mon May 5 10:25:06 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04017 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 10:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h45E593U022401; Mon, 5 May 2003 16:05:10 +0200 Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de (mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.15]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h45DZk3U021973 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 15:35:59 +0200 Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.4.15]) by mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de with esmtp (exim-4.14-8) id 19Cg62-0001S8-Lz; Mon, 05 May 2003 15:33:34 +0200 Received: from mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE ([130.149.4.15]) by mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Mon, 5 May 2003 15:33:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ftmail.ee.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.49.250]) by mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de with esmtp (exim-4.14-8) id 19Cg5z-0001HI-KS; Mon, 05 May 2003 15:33:31 +0200 Received: from ft.ee.tu-berlin.de (ftsu34.tkn.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.49.204]) by ftmail.ee.tu-berlin.de (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h45DWRB08634; Mon, 5 May 2003 15:32:27 +0200 Message-ID: <3EB669C0.5010401@ft.ee.tu-berlin.de> From: Heike Klemz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: klemz CC: Holger Karl Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080302020105080309090201" X-Virus-Scanned: Sophos MailMonitor on mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de; Mon, 05 May 2003 15:33:31 +0200 Subject: [nemo] CfP:1st Europaen Workshop on WIreless Sensor Networks Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 15:40:16 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080302020105080309090201 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Colleague, I would like to draw your attention to the " Frist European Workshop on Wireless Sensor Networks" Berlin, January 2004 (see Attachement). 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May 6 07:38:56 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA14850 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 07:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h46BS63U027272; Tue, 6 May 2003 13:28:08 +0200 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([IPv6:3ffe:501:100c:d120::53]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h46BPQ3U027253 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 13:25:33 +0200 Received: from juryan (nat-box.k2.keio.ac.jp [131.113.23.226]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 960B25D0B4; Tue, 6 May 2003 20:24:55 +0900 (JST) From: Julien Charbon To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com Cc: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Message-Id: <20030506212412.749fcdfe.julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:24:12 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pascal, hi all, > Problem is that the design team implements the requirements. We must > make the reqs clear cut for the design team to operate. I see that you mean. > > So an interresting case to clear this point : > > > > _ p1 MR1 AR1 HA1 > > |_|-| <--_ ISP1 ________ > > _ |---|_|--------| | | _ > > |_|-| | |-| _ |-|_| > > \ <-- | | |-|_|-| > > Intern \_ p1 | | | > > Router |_| |Internet| > > / p2 | | > > _ / <-- | | | _ > > |_|-| _ | |-| _ |-|_| > > _ |---|_|--------|________| |-|_|-| > > |_|-| <-- ISP2 ISP3 | > > p2 MR2 > > MNN AR2 HA2 > > Note that one assumption is that a MN is a stub. So, MR1 will not > advertise p2 even if it gets it from Intern Router, whatever. So Intern > router just allows a shortcut when a node from p1 talks to a node from > p2, but otherwise, this is 2 isolated MNets of a no-multihoming case, > don't you think? To be clear the Intern Router send p1's RA by his north interface and p2's by his south interface. The goal of this kind of configuration is to separate the two subnets p1 and p2. [The network administrator don't want multi-addressed node] Now, in Nemo-Terminology is a Multi-Homing case : ,----[ draft-ernst-nemo-terminology-01.txt ] | Multihomed Mobile Network | From 3.4.1, a mobile network is multihomed when either: [...] | - there are more than one MR in the mobile network `---- but this definition can be changed. And that's append when MR1 fail down ? When a IPv6 node receive several Router Advertisement it manage a Default Router List like this : ,----[ RFC-2461 ] | 6.3.4. Processing Received Router Advertisements | | [...] On receipt of a valid Router Advertisement, a host extracts the | source address of the packet and does the following: | | * If the address is not already present in the host's Default | Router List [...] create a new entry in the list [...] | | To limit the storage needed for the Default Router List, [...] a host | MUST retain at least two router addresses and SHOULD retain more. | ^^^ `---- And thus Node choose a Default Router in the list: ,----[ RFC-2461 ] | 6.3.6. Default Router Selection | | [...] The policy for selecting routers from the Default Router List is as | follows: | | 1) Routers that are reachable or probably reachable.[...] | 2) When no routers on the list are known to be reachable or | probably reachable, routers SHOULD be selected in a round-robin | fashion, [...] `---- So after a TimeOut the p1 prefixed nodes send theirs packets to the Intern Router, who forwards this paquets to MR2, who tunnels this packet to HA2 who is embarrassed [if a HA can be embarrassed] because ISP3 refuse to forward p1 prefix. I think this kind of problem is a [Nemo] Site Multi-Homing one. But there is nor Multi6-Terminology, and neither Nemo-Multi6-Terminology so it is IMHO. > That was the goal. Identify separate problems and fix them individually. > > > With this four classes can we say the solution for the > > Tarzan problem is ... ? Difficult because - for example - > > this two cases need differents solutions: > > > > - One "Multi-egress-interfaced" MR. > > > > P _____ > > _ <-- _ | | > > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| |-| _ > > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| > > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > > | > > > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > This is a Tarzan, right? Yes, this two examples are Tarzan AND Shinkansen. [The first one is a very trivial Shinkansen]. > > > > - Two MR in multi-site case. > > > > P > > <--- > > _ _____ > > _ |-|_|-| _ | | > > |_|-| |-|_|-| |-| _ > > _ | | |_____| | _ |-|_| > > |_|-| _ | |-|_|-| > > |-|_|-| | > > > > <--- > > P > > > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > And this is Shinkansen, and a Tarzan in this case. My point is that > hopefully (with a good design approach) x and y should be orthogonal and > the case you mention will need the solution for Tarzan and Shinkansen. Now, I see totally your point of view. Can you give me some solution, or outlined solution that provided good designed approach ? [It is not a trap-question, I really want to learn all point of view on this problematic] IMHO, I think is too earlier for this affirmation, but maybe I'm lack of expertise in this domain and I waiting to be convince. Thanks for all yours explanations and your patience. -- Julien From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Tue May 6 22:55:53 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA18399 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h472of3U000426; Wed, 7 May 2003 04:50:46 +0200 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:3ffe:501:100c:d210:2e0:18ff:fe98:936d] (may be forged)) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h472lq3U000410 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 04:48:00 +0200 Received: from modena.sfc.wide.ad.jp (guest49.csl.sony.co.jp [133.138.2.49]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.9/8.12.0) with ESMTP id h472lJ4W029885 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:47:24 +0900 Message-ID: From: Koshiro MITSUYA To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.0 (Venus) SEMI/1.14.5 (Awara-Onsen) FLIM/1.14.5 (Demachiyanagi) APEL/10.4 Emacs/21.2 (i386--netbsdelf) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [nemo] Multiple egress/homeing operations in MRTP/PSBU Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 11:47:14 +0900 Hi all, I've read TJ's draft and thought about the operations of multi- egress/homing in MRTP/PSBU. Let me summarize it. ---------- Tarzan - a MR has CoA1, CoA2 and a Prefix, And there is a sigle HA. If a MR has 2 CoA, MR bind only the primary one. If CoA1 is primary, then MR sends BU using CoA1. ---------- Jet-Set - a MR has CoA1, CoA2 and a Prefix, And there are HA1 and HA2. Maybe a MR know the list of HAs by using DHAAD, and MR will decide that the primary CoA to each HA. If MR decide that CoA1 is primary to HA1, then MR sends BU using CoA1 to HA1. And MR decide that CoA2 is primary to HA2, then MR sends BU using CoA2 to HA2. May be we can keep suck kind of BU list. ---------- Shinkansen - MR1 has CoA1, MR2 has CoA2 and a Prefix advertised by MR1 and MR2. And there is a HA. Each MR register own BU to a HA. HA has two binding corresponding to Prefix. HA choose the binding by using round-robin algorism. ---------- Double-bed - MR1 has CoA1 and advertise Prefix1, MR2 has CoA2 and advertise Prefix2. And there is a HA. Each MR register own BU to a HA. HA has two binding Prefix1->CoA1 and Prefix2->CoA2. MNNs act source address selection. thanks, Koshiro From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Thu May 8 03:02:29 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA14397 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 03:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4871dTH004384; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:01:43 +0200 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:3ffe:501:100c:d210:2e0:18ff:fe98:936d] (may be forged)) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h486xrTH004356 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 08:59:59 +0200 Received: from modena.sfc.wide.ad.jp (net56-dhcp-1111.sfc.keio.ac.jp [133.27.61.87]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.9/8.12.0) with ESMTP id h486xf4W011275 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:59:43 +0900 Message-ID: From: Koshiro MITSUYA To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple egress/homeing operations in MRTP/PSBU In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.0 (Venus) SEMI/1.14.5 (Awara-Onsen) FLIM/1.14.5 (Demachiyanagi) APEL/10.4 Emacs/21.2 (i386--netbsdelf) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 15:59:37 +0900 Dear all, I've received some questions, and Let me update my document. At Wed, 07 May 2003 11:47:14 +0900, Koshiro MITSUYA wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've read TJ's draft and thought about the operations of multi- > egress/homing in MRTP/PSBU. > Multiple egress vs multihoming operations in MRTP/PSBU If I feel the specification is out of scope in NEMO Basic support, then I put "". ---------- Tarzan - a MR has CoA1, CoA2 and a Prefix, And there is a sigle HA. If a MR has 2 CoA, MR bind only the primary one. If CoA1 is primary, then MR sends BU using CoA1. We can use same mechanism as "draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa" for Load Sharing. Please refer to [1]. ---------- Jet-Set - a MR has CoA1, CoA2 and a Prefix, And there are HA1 and HA2. Maybe a MR know the list of HAs by using DHAAD, and MR will decide that the primary CoA to each HA. If MR decide that CoA1 is primary to HA1, then MR sends BU using CoA1 to HA1. And MR decide that CoA2 is primary to HA2, then MR sends BU using CoA2 to HA2. May be we can keep such kind of BU list. If you don't have any policy to decide the primary one, it's gonna be same case as source address selection, like round-robin algorithm. we can chose a primary CoA with some policy from there restriction [security, access control, reachability,...]. In this case, we may investigate new specification to nemo spec. For exmaple, MR has this kind of policy, priority | high low ---------|-------------------------- HA1 | WirelessLAN PDC HA2 | PDC WirelessLAN When WirelessLAN and PDC are available, the primary CoA for HA1 is CoA of WirelessLAN, and the primary for HA2 is CoA of PDC. When WirelessLAN is down, the primary CoA for HA1 will be CoA of PDC. ---------- Shinkansen - MR1 has CoA1, MR2 has CoA2 and a Prefix advertised by MR1 and MR2. And there is a HA. Each MR register own BU to a HA. HA has two binding corresponding to a Prefix. HA choose the binding by using round-robin algorism. FOr example, MR1 has H@1, MR2 has H@2, then a HA has following BC. MIP binding cache H@1 -> CoA1 H@2 -> CoA2 NEMO binding cache Prefix -> H@1 (use round Prefix -> H@2 robin algorism) If a HA receive a packet destinated to example::beef. HA search example::beef in NEMO binding cache at first, If found, search corresponding H@ in MIP binding cache and act as NEMO HA. If not found, search example::beef in MIP binding cache and act as MIP HA. One idea of Load Sharing, a HA has the policy to decide which MR is higher. Maybe a operator of HA set the priority statically, like MR1 is higher than MR2. If users/owner of MR want to decide the priority statically, users can put the policy to each MR, and MRs can send BU with the priority. If you act it dynamically, we need more concerns ;-) ---------- Double-bed - MR1 has CoA1 and advertise Prefix1, MR2 has CoA2 and advertise Prefix2. And there is a HA. Each MR register own BU to a HA. HA has two binding Prefix1->CoA1 and Prefix2->CoA2. MNNs act source address selection. [1] http://www.nal.motlabs.com/pipermail/nemo/2003-April/000575.html thanks, Koshiro From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Thu May 8 03:54:10 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA15113 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 03:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h487t5TH004559; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:55:05 +0200 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:3ffe:501:100c:d120::53]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h487sZTH004546 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:54:37 +0200 Received: from dhcp-143-140.sfc.wide.ad.jp (dhcp-143-140.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.143.140]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 00BE65D08E; Thu, 8 May 2003 16:54:24 +0900 (JST) From: Thierry Ernst To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com Cc: tj@kniveton.com Message-Id: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [nemo] Document Updates Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 16:49:35 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I'm in the process of submitting an update version of both the Requirements and the Terminology drafts. Following the discussion at last IETF meeting, documents will remain separate, but terms which can now be found in the Seamoby Terminology doc are now removed from the NEMO document. Before I do submit them to the IETF secretariat, I would like to make sure on the NEMO ML that the terminology draft is going to be submitted as a NEMO Working Group document, not as a personal submission anymore (i.e. it would be draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00 instead of draft-ernst-nemo-terminology-02). Any concern about this ? Thierry. From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Fri May 9 10:33:20 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA18429 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 10:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h49EWEAd002120; Fri, 9 May 2003 16:32:15 +0200 Received: from lrg.ufsc.br (orion.lrg.ufsc.br [150.162.63.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h49E4WAd002011 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 16:04:35 +0200 Received: from localhost (westphal@localhost) by (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10883 From: Carlos Becker Westphall To: Carlos Becker Westphall Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by jessica.nal.motlabs.com id h49E4WAd002011 Subject: [nemo] LANOMS'03 - Extended Deadline for submissions - June 6th (fwd) Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:55:56 -0400 (WST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LANOMS'03 - Extended Deadline for submissions - June 6th ### #### # ## # # #### # # #### # # # # # # ## # # # ## ## # # # # # # # # # # # # # ## # #### # # ### # ###### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ## # # # # # # # # # ###### # # # # #### # # #### ### #### LANOMS 2003 ----------- 3rd Latin American Network Operations and Management Symposium Iguassu Falls, Brazil September 4-6, 2003 IEEE ComSoc CNOM Technically Co-sponsored http://www.inf.ufpr.br/lanoms lanoms@inf.ufpr.br Call for Papers --------------- The Third Latin American Network Operations and Management Symposium - LANOMS, to be held in Iguassu Falls (Foz do Iguaçu), Brazil, is the result of the great success of both LANOMS'1999 which was held in Rio de Janeiro and LANOMS'2001 which was held in Belo Horizonte, as well as the other events in the area of network management known as NOMS and APNOMS. NOMS (Network Operations and Management Symposium) was originally created 13 years ago, and nowadays constitutes a worldwide event for the researches in the area of network management. The Asia/Pacific community promoted the APNOMS (Asia-Pacific Network Operations and Management Symposium), which is an event more oriented to the research and development community in that region. Continuing the success of the second LANOMS, we will promote the third edition of LANOMS (http://www.inf.ufpr.br/lanoms) on September 4-6 2003, in Iguassu Falls, Paraná, Brazil. The symposium is a promotion of the Federal University of Paraná (UFPR), Brazil, technically co-sponsored by IEEE Communications Society, and supported by IEEE Technical Committee on Network Operations and Management (CNOM). The main goal of the LANOMS is to create a forum more specific to the necessities of Latin America in the area of network management involving networking and telecommunication companies, academic institutions and equipment vendors. LANOMS is an event open to participants from all over the world who are interest in having, or already have, research or commercial liaisons in Latin America - one of the fastest growing regions in the world in networking. This year, we intend to increase the submissions from North America, Europe, Africa and Asia. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to: - Integrating Intrusion Detection and Network Management - Intrusion Policy Management - Web Services Security - Business and Service Management - Management Platforms, Interoperability, Standards and Protocols - Management of Networks and Services: VPNs, Optical Networks, CATV Networks, Mobile/Wireless and Ad-Hoc Networks, Voice over IP, Transaction-Oriented Services, Electronic Commerce, Active and Programmable Networks, Sensor Networks - Management Technologies and Frameworks (Web, XML, CORBA, DEN, etc) - Management Aspects of Service Pricing, Accounting and Billing - Management of Service Level Agreements and Quality of Service - Bandwidth Brokerage - Data Warehousing and Data Mining in Management - Programmable, Mobile and Intelligent Agents in Management - Network and Systems Monitoring - Fault and Performance Management - Security Management - Configuration Management and Policy-Driven Management - Information Modeling - Traffic and Performance Management - Open-Source Management Software - Management of Grid Computing, Clusters, Peer-to-Peer Applications, and Ubiquitous Computing Environments - Operations Support Systems - Business Processes for Network and Service Management - Peer-to-peer Network Technologies for Management - Management of Distributed Systems - Case Studies and Experiences in Management Authors are invited to submit unpublished papers, which are not under review for publication elsewhere. Papers are to be submitted in English. Submissions should be complete, full-length papers and should not exceed 12 pages. Electronic submission of papers is mandatory. Full instructions for the electronic submissions will be available soon on the LANOMS Web page. Authors are requested to submit papers in PDF (preferred) or PostScript format via web. The manuscript should include an abstract and three key-words. The format is size A4 (preferred) or Letter, single column, font size 12. All papers will be carefully reviewed by at least three international experts and returned to the author(s) with comments to ensure high quality. Important Dates: ---------------- Deadline for receipt of papers: June 06, 2003 Notification of acceptance: June 30, 2003 Final camera ready paper due: July 15, 2003 LANOMS 2003 Committee --------------------- General Chair: Elias Procópio Duarte Jr., Brazil elias@inf.ufpr.br TPC Chair: Edmundo Roberto Mauro Madeira, Brazil edmundo@ic.unicamp.br Tutorial Chair: José Marcos Silva Nogueira, Brazil jmarcos@dcc.ufmg.br Publicity Chair: Carlos Becker Westphall, Brazil westphal@lrg.ufsc.br International Liaisons: Asia: Masayoshi Ejiri ejiri@jp.fujitsu.com Australia: Abbas Jamalipour abbas@ee.usyd.edu.au Europe: Rolf Stadler stadler@ctr.columbia.edu North America: Mehmet Ulema mehmet.ulema@manhattan.edu Africa: Abderrahim Sekkaki sekkaki@hotmail.com Peru: Carlos Silva csilva@pucp.edu.pe Colombia: Aldo Forero aforero@col1.telecom.com.co Colombia: Omar Rodriguez Ramirez omar-r@andinet.com Chile: Ivan Ramirez Ayala iraft@123mail.cl Costa Rica: Francisco Murrillo fmurillos@ice.go.cr Technical Program Committee: Ahmed Karmouch - Univ. of Ottawa, Canada Antonio Alfredo F. Loureiro - Federal Univ. of Minas Gerais, Brazil Bruno R. Schulze - LNCC, Brazil Carlos Becker Westphall - Federal Univ. of Santa Catarina, Brazil Carlos de Castro Goulart - Federal Univ. of Viçosa, Brazil Elias P. Duarte Jr. (General Chair) - Federal Univ. of Paraná, Brazil Edmundo Monteiro - Univ. of Coimbra, Portugal Edmundo R. M. Madeira (TPC Chair) - State Univ. of Campinas, Brazil Edward L. Pinnes - Telcordia, USA Elizabeth Specialski - Federal Univ. of Santa Catarina, Brazil Fernando Boavida - Univ. of Coimbra, Portugal Germán Goldszmidt - IBM, USA Iara Machado - RNP, Brazil James Won-Ki Hong - Postech, Korea Javier Diaz - Univ. of La Plata, Argentina José Marcos Silva Nogueira - Federal Univ. of Minas Gerais, Brazil José Neuman de Souza - Federal Univ. of Ceará, Brazil Liane Tarouco - Federal Univ. of Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil Lisandro Z. Granville - Federal Univ. of Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil Luciano P. Gaspary - Univ. of Vale do Rio dos Sinos, Brazil Lundy Lewis - Aprisma Management Technologies, USA Masayoshi Ejiri - Fujitsu, Japan Mehmet Ulema, Manhattan College, USA Nazim Agoulmine - Univ. of Evry - France Nelson L.S. Fonseca - State Univ. of Campinas, Brazil Otto C.M.B. Duarte - Federal Univ. of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Raouf Boutaba - Univ. of Waterloo, Canada Thomas Magedanz - IKV++ Technologies AG, TU Berlin, Germany From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Mon May 12 07:42:30 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA09086 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 07:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4CBiFkZ026920; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:44:16 +0200 Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4CBgwkZ026907 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:43:00 +0200 Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id h4CBgsVj020686; Mon, 12 May 2003 20:42:54 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id h4CBgsGu009761; Mon, 12 May 2003 20:42:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from tis2 [133.199.160.66] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id WAA09758 ; Mon, 12 May 2003 20:42:54 +0900 Received: from mx4.toshiba.co.jp by tis2.tis.toshiba.co.jp id UAA22169; Mon, 12 May 2003 20:42:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id UAA17763; Mon, 12 May 2003 20:42:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (inoue@flowerpark [133.196.16.25]) by isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp (8.11.7/8.11.6/1.4) with ESMTP id h4CBgqj08310; Mon, 12 May 2003 20:42:52 +0900 (JST) To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com, manet@ietf.org, mobile-ip@sunroof.eng.sun.com, pana@research.telcordia.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 09 May 2003 10:39:12 +0900" <4.2.0.58.J.20030509103119.047acc78@localhost> References: <4.2.0.58.J.20030509103119.047acc78@localhost> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030512204252N.inoue@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp> From: Atsushi Inoue X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 85 Subject: [nemo] CFP:: First International Conference on Mobile Computing and Ubiquitous Networking (ICMU 2004) Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:42:52 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Apologies if you receive multiple copies) CALL FOR PAPERS =============== First International Conference on Mobile Computing and Ubiquitous Networking (ICMU 2004) January 8 and 9, 2004 NTT DoCoMo R&D Center, Yokosuka Rsearch Park, Yokosuka, JAPAN http://www.ipsj.or.jp/sig/mbl/icmu2004/ Deadline for submissions: August 1 2003 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Co-sponsored by IPSJ SIG-MBL (Informaiton Processing Society of Japan, Special Interest Group of Mobile Computing and Ubiquitous Networking) and IPSJ SG-BCC (Study Group of Broadcast Communicaiton and Computing) Scope: ~~~~~~ Mobile computing aims at ubiquitous user access to computer application. To make it possible, networking technology which enables Internet access anytime and everywhere, i.e. ubiquitous networking is necessary. It is obvious that with the accelerating trends towards mobile networks, ad-hoc networks, and wireless networks, mobile computing and ubiquitous networking will play an important role in future network. This conference is aimed at providing researchers and practitioners in this hot research area a forum for discussion and collaboration. Authors are invited to submit papers addressing, but not limited to, the following topics: - Applications and services for mobile computing - Network architectures, protocols, or service models for ubiquitous networking - Network management for ubiquitous networking - Data management for mobile computing - Security in mobile computing and ubiquitous networking - Wireless and mobile communications - Nomadic computing - Ad-hoc networks - Mobile Internetworking - Performance evaluation for mobile computing and ubiquitous networking systems - Broadcast communication Submission Instructions: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Papers are solicited as full papers of no more than 6 pages, each of which will be subject to a full review process. Submission should already follow the author guidelines as specified in the web site below. An electronic, PDF-based submission of papers is mandatory. Please check Submission Guideline (http://www.ipsj.or.jp/sig/mbl/icmu2004/guide.html) for further submission instructions. Important Dates: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - Deadline for submissions August 1, 2003 - Notification of acceptance October 1, 2003 - Camera ready due November 1, 2003 - Conference January 8-9, 2004 Location and Date: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The location of the NTT DoCoMo R&D Center is in the heart of Yokosuka Research Park(YRP) where a lot of wireless communication related research institutes are established. YRP is really the heart of wireless communications research in Japan. Japanese old city Kamakura, a famous historic city, is 30 minutes by train. Beginning of the year is one of the best seasons for visiting Japan. You can also get PDF version of Call for Papers from http://www.ipsj.or.jp/sig/mbl/icmu2004/cfp-icmu2004.pdf -- inoue@toshiba Atsushi Inoue # Phone: +81-44-549-2065 Communication Platform Lab. # Fax: +81-44-520-1806 TOSHIBA R&D Center # inoue@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon May 12 15:56:06 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01363 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4CJLm726453 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:21:48 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4CJLmB26450 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:21:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01300 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:55:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FJQV-00043H-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:57:35 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FJQU-00043A-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:57:34 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4CJLkB26446 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:21:46 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4CJEdB26099 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:14:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01064 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FJJb-0003zN-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:50:27 -0400 Received: from ns.cnri.reston.va.us ([132.151.1.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FJJa-0003zJ-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:50:26 -0400 Received: from cnri-7-167.cnri.reston.va.us ([132.151.7.167] helo=foretec.com) by ns.cnri.reston.va.us with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FJKb-0005wx-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:51:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3EBFFBE6.4020402@foretec.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:54:14 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jacob_Mu=F1oz?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nemo@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Nemo] test Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 123 _______________________________________________ Nemo mailing list Nemo@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nemo From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon May 12 15:56:22 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01395 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4CJM3M26547 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:22:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4CJM3B26544 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:22:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01341 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FJQk-00043x-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:57:50 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FJQj-00043r-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:57:49 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4CJM1B26512 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:22:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4CJFcB26156 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:15:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01099 for ; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FJKX-000400-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:51:25 -0400 Received: from ns.cnri.reston.va.us ([132.151.1.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FJKX-0003zx-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:51:25 -0400 Received: from cnri-7-167.cnri.reston.va.us ([132.151.7.167] helo=foretec.com) by ns.cnri.reston.va.us with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FJLY-0005xD-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 12 May 2003 15:52:28 -0400 Message-ID: <3EBFFC21.1080404@foretec.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:55:13 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jacob_Mu=F1oz?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nemo@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Nemo] test Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 123 _______________________________________________ Nemo mailing list Nemo@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nemo From nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Tue May 13 04:05:22 2003 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (dns1.nal.motlabs.com [195.212.111.242]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA00357 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:05:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4D84kkZ003680; Tue, 13 May 2003 10:04:48 +0200 Received: from multihop.net ([192.103.16.205]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4D83BkZ003657 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 10:03:21 +0200 Received: from [64.36.73.242] (homegw.kniveton.com [64.36.73.242]) by multihop.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4D83PU5058470 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 01:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tj@kniveton.com) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 From: "T.J. Kniveton" To: NeMo Discussion Subscribers Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [nemo] New list server Sender: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com Errors-To: nemo-admin@nal.motlabs.com X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mobile networks discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:02:51 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks, We lucky NEMOers have been offered a spiffy new mailing list server at ietf.org, which means that we will soon be migrating a new mailing list address. Everything else will remain the same - the server software is the same as before, and your address should be subscribed to the new list without your intervention. The switch-over will happen within the next couple of days; stay tuned for details. -NEMO admin From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue May 13 04:07:06 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA00428 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4D7X2r23386 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 03:33:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4D7X2B23381 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 03:33:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA00409 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FUps-0000nN-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:08:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FUps-0000nK-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:08:32 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4D7X1B23367 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 03:33:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4D7VAB23275 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 03:31:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA00351 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FUo5-0000mS-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:06:41 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FUo3-0000mP-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:06:40 -0400 Received: from jessica.nal.motlabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4D84kkZ003680; Tue, 13 May 2003 10:04:48 +0200 Received: from multihop.net ([192.103.16.205]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4D83BkZ003657 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 10:03:21 +0200 Received: from [64.36.73.242] (homegw.kniveton.com [64.36.73.242]) by multihop.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4D83PU5058470 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 01:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tj@kniveton.com) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 From: "T.J. Kniveton" To: NeMo Discussion Subscribers Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [nemo] New list server X-BeenThere: nemo@nal.motlabs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:02:51 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks, We lucky NEMOers have been offered a spiffy new mailing list server at ietf.org, which means that we will soon be migrating a new mailing list address. Everything else will remain the same - the server software is the same as before, and your address should be subscribed to the new list without your intervention. The switch-over will happen within the next couple of days; stay tuned for details. -NEMO admin From nemo-admin@ietf.org Tue May 13 18:35:47 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02652 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4DLubB03056; Tue, 13 May 2003 17:56:37 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4DLsaB02821 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 17:54:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02385 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FiHM-0000Ne-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:29:48 -0400 Received: from mailhost.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.12]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FiHL-0000NX-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:29:47 -0400 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (darkstar.iprg.nokia.com [205.226.5.69]) by mailhost.iprg.nokia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3-GLGS) with ESMTP id PAA29539 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 15:30:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Delivered-For: Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id h4DMUCO24002 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 15:30:12 -0700 X-mProtect: <200305132230> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.2.111, claiming to be "kniveton.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpd7IoWgM; Tue, 13 May 2003 15:30:11 PDT Message-ID: <3EC171F3.38868774@kniveton.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:30:11 -0700 From: "T.J. Kniveton" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nemo@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [nemo] New NEMO list is running Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks, please update your address book to start using the new address, nemo@ietf.org. The list is up and running now, and posts to the old alias will be forwarded to the new one. Thanks, -TJ From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue May 13 18:38:07 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02704 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4DM4KW03514 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:04:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4DM4KB03511 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:04:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02693 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FiQm-0000TQ-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:39:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FiQl-0000TM-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:39:31 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4DLubB03056; Tue, 13 May 2003 17:56:37 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4DLsaB02821 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 17:54:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02385 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FiHM-0000Ne-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:29:48 -0400 Received: from mailhost.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.12]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FiHL-0000NX-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 18:29:47 -0400 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (darkstar.iprg.nokia.com [205.226.5.69]) by mailhost.iprg.nokia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3-GLGS) with ESMTP id PAA29539 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 15:30:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Delivered-For: Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id h4DMUCO24002 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 15:30:12 -0700 X-mProtect: <200305132230> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.2.111, claiming to be "kniveton.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpd7IoWgM; Tue, 13 May 2003 15:30:11 PDT Message-ID: <3EC171F3.38868774@kniveton.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:30:11 -0700 From: "T.J. Kniveton" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nemo@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [nemo] New NEMO list is running Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks, please update your address book to start using the new address, nemo@ietf.org. The list is up and running now, and posts to the old alias will be forwarded to the new one. Thanks, -TJ From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 05:45:14 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA10397 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4E9BNB28879; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:11:23 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4E9AwB28846 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:10:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA10360 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fspg-0003yF-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:45:56 -0400 Received: from motgate2.mot.com ([136.182.1.10]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fspe-0003y8-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:45:55 -0400 Received: from az33exr04.mot.com (az33exr04.mot.com [10.64.251.234]) by motgate2.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate2) with ESMTP id h4E9kujk024824; Wed, 14 May 2003 02:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by az33exr04.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr04) with ESMTP id h4E9kr5i000868; Wed, 14 May 2003 04:46:54 -0500 Received: from test9.crm.mot.com.crm.mot.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2322EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:46:52 +0200 (CEST) From: petrescu@nal.motlabs.com To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:46:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> (Thierry Ernst's message of "Thu, 8 May 2003 16:49:35 +0900") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090017 (Oort Gnus v0.17) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , [old mail...] Thierry Ernst writes: > Following the discussion at last IETF meeting, documents will remain > separate, but terms which can now be found in the Seamoby > Terminology doc are now removed from the NEMO document. Can we see the relevant part of the current new terminology document that does not appear in the Seamoby terminology document? > Before I do submit them to the IETF secretariat, I would like to > make sure on the NEMO ML that the terminology draft is going to be > submitted as a NEMO Working Group document, not as a personal > submission anymore (i.e. it would be draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00 > instead of draft-ernst-nemo-terminology-02). Any concern about this? Depends on how the current nemo terminology looks like. To me it does make sense to use the space in the Seamoby mobility terminology document, provided that suggested additions of new terms are accepted. If the body of the current terminology document is very long then a new document might make sense (I mean another than Seamoby's). On the other hand, every other non-terminology document might have its own DEFINITIONS section. On yet another hand, many terms are used for ad-hoc - read ephemere - discussions and thus might not need to be set in any document. Alex From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 05:45:58 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA10424 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4E9CQX28929 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:12:26 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4E9CQB28926 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:12:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA10421 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fsr6-0003yw-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:47:24 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fsr5-0003yt-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:47:23 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4E9BNB28879; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:11:23 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4E9AwB28846 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:10:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA10360 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fspg-0003yF-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:45:56 -0400 Received: from motgate2.mot.com ([136.182.1.10]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fspe-0003y8-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:45:55 -0400 Received: from az33exr04.mot.com (az33exr04.mot.com [10.64.251.234]) by motgate2.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate2) with ESMTP id h4E9kujk024824; Wed, 14 May 2003 02:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by az33exr04.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr04) with ESMTP id h4E9kr5i000868; Wed, 14 May 2003 04:46:54 -0500 Received: from test9.crm.mot.com.crm.mot.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2322EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:46:52 +0200 (CEST) From: petrescu@nal.motlabs.com To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:46:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> (Thierry Ernst's message of "Thu, 8 May 2003 16:49:35 +0900") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090017 (Oort Gnus v0.17) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , [old mail...] Thierry Ernst writes: > Following the discussion at last IETF meeting, documents will remain > separate, but terms which can now be found in the Seamoby > Terminology doc are now removed from the NEMO document. Can we see the relevant part of the current new terminology document that does not appear in the Seamoby terminology document? > Before I do submit them to the IETF secretariat, I would like to > make sure on the NEMO ML that the terminology draft is going to be > submitted as a NEMO Working Group document, not as a personal > submission anymore (i.e. it would be draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00 > instead of draft-ernst-nemo-terminology-02). Any concern about this? Depends on how the current nemo terminology looks like. To me it does make sense to use the space in the Seamoby mobility terminology document, provided that suggested additions of new terms are accepted. If the body of the current terminology document is very long then a new document might make sense (I mean another than Seamoby's). On the other hand, every other non-terminology document might have its own DEFINITIONS section. On yet another hand, many terms are used for ad-hoc - read ephemere - discussions and thus might not need to be set in any document. Alex From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 06:24:55 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA11343 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4E9p8B31516; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:51:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4E9ojB31475 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:50:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA11300 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FtSB-0004FF-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:25:43 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FtSA-0004Eq-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:25:42 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A29C5D0A1; Wed, 14 May 2003 19:26:18 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:24:03 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: petrescu@nal.motlabs.com Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit petrescu@nal.motlabs.com wrote: > Can we see the relevant part of the current new terminology document > that does not appear in the Seamoby terminology document? The requirement draft is ready, but I'm stuck on the re-definition of multihoming in the terminology, which requires me to update requirement 12-13. So, I can send the 2 drafts with the current text and let the people playing their favorite game: darts throwing. > > Before I do submit them to the IETF secretariat, I would like to > > make sure on the NEMO ML that the terminology draft is going to be > > submitted as a NEMO Working Group document, not as a personal > > submission anymore (i.e. it would be draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00 > > instead of draft-ernst-nemo-terminology-02). Any concern about this? > > Depends on how the current nemo terminology looks like. To me it does > make sense to use the space in the Seamoby mobility terminology > document, provided that suggested additions of new terms are accepted. > > If the body of the current terminology document is very long then a > new document might make sense (I mean another than Seamoby's). > > On the other hand, every other non-terminology document might have its > own DEFINITIONS section. > > On yet another hand, many terms are used for ad-hoc - read ephemere - > discussions and thus might not need to be set in any document. Well, those comments don't help. Have you checked the Seamoby document already and the relevant mobile network section ? I will send the terminology as draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00, I think that's the consensus (well, indeed, the consensus is "no comment" :-) Thierry From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 06:25:33 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA11364 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4E9q0l31558 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:52:00 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4E9q0B31555 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:52:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA11358 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FtTN-0004Fh-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:26:57 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FtTM-0004Fe-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:26:56 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4E9p8B31516; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:51:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4E9ojB31475 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:50:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA11300 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FtSB-0004FF-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:25:43 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FtSA-0004Eq-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:25:42 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A29C5D0A1; Wed, 14 May 2003 19:26:18 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:24:03 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: petrescu@nal.motlabs.com Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit petrescu@nal.motlabs.com wrote: > Can we see the relevant part of the current new terminology document > that does not appear in the Seamoby terminology document? The requirement draft is ready, but I'm stuck on the re-definition of multihoming in the terminology, which requires me to update requirement 12-13. So, I can send the 2 drafts with the current text and let the people playing their favorite game: darts throwing. > > Before I do submit them to the IETF secretariat, I would like to > > make sure on the NEMO ML that the terminology draft is going to be > > submitted as a NEMO Working Group document, not as a personal > > submission anymore (i.e. it would be draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00 > > instead of draft-ernst-nemo-terminology-02). Any concern about this? > > Depends on how the current nemo terminology looks like. To me it does > make sense to use the space in the Seamoby mobility terminology > document, provided that suggested additions of new terms are accepted. > > If the body of the current terminology document is very long then a > new document might make sense (I mean another than Seamoby's). > > On the other hand, every other non-terminology document might have its > own DEFINITIONS section. > > On yet another hand, many terms are used for ad-hoc - read ephemere - > discussions and thus might not need to be set in any document. Well, those comments don't help. Have you checked the Seamoby document already and the relevant mobile network section ? I will send the terminology as draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00, I think that's the consensus (well, indeed, the consensus is "no comment" :-) Thierry From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 06:52:06 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12030 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EAILB01161; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:18:21 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EAHfB01133 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:17:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12003 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FtsE-0004Pk-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:52:38 -0400 Received: from motgate3.mot.com ([144.189.100.103]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FtsD-0004Ph-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:52:38 -0400 Received: from il06exr06.mot.com (il06exr06.mot.com [129.188.137.136]) by motgate3.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate3) with ESMTP id h4EArNFD019351; Wed, 14 May 2003 03:53:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr06.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr06) with ESMTP id h4EArJnb009461; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:53:20 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 280612EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 12:53:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:53:18 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: > Well, those comments don't help. Ok, let me Cancel them. > Have you checked the Seamoby document already and the relevant mobile > network section ? Yes I did. I found mobile network, MR and MNN. It does not contain MNP (mobile network prefix). Can we suggest to Seamoby to add MNP to that document? > I will send the terminology as draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00, I > think that's the consensus (well, indeed, the consensus is "no > comment" :-) No comment :-) Alex From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 06:53:03 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12073 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4EAJVu01197 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:19:31 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EAJVB01194 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:19:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12048 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fttz-0004QU-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:54:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fttz-0004QR-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:54:27 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EAILB01161; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:18:21 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EAHfB01133 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:17:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12003 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FtsE-0004Pk-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:52:38 -0400 Received: from motgate3.mot.com ([144.189.100.103]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FtsD-0004Ph-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:52:38 -0400 Received: from il06exr06.mot.com (il06exr06.mot.com [129.188.137.136]) by motgate3.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate3) with ESMTP id h4EArNFD019351; Wed, 14 May 2003 03:53:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr06.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr06) with ESMTP id h4EArJnb009461; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:53:20 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 280612EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 12:53:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:53:18 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: > Well, those comments don't help. Ok, let me Cancel them. > Have you checked the Seamoby document already and the relevant mobile > network section ? Yes I did. I found mobile network, MR and MNN. It does not contain MNP (mobile network prefix). Can we suggest to Seamoby to add MNP to that document? > I will send the terminology as draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00, I > think that's the consensus (well, indeed, the consensus is "no > comment" :-) No comment :-) Alex From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 07:00:49 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12220 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EAR3B01515; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:27:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EAQ7B01466 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:26:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12190 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fu0N-0004Sv-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:01:03 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fu0N-0004Ss-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:01:03 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 87B355D084; Wed, 14 May 2003 20:01:39 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:59:24 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Yes I did. I found mobile network, MR and MNN. It does not contain MNP > (mobile network prefix). Can we suggest to Seamoby to add MNP to that > document? Indeed, it does, but not in the same section. Thierry From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 07:01:27 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12258 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4EARtF01552 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:27:55 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EARtB01549 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:27:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12235 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fu27-0004TF-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:02:51 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fu26-0004TC-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:02:50 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EAR3B01515; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:27:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EAQ7B01466 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:26:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12190 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fu0N-0004Sv-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:01:03 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fu0N-0004Ss-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:01:03 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 87B355D084; Wed, 14 May 2003 20:01:39 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:59:24 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Yes I did. I found mobile network, MR and MNN. It does not contain MNP > (mobile network prefix). Can we suggest to Seamoby to add MNP to that > document? Indeed, it does, but not in the same section. Thierry From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 07:49:48 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13347 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBG7B05092; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:16:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBFTB05066 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:15:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13333 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fum8-0004h5-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:50:25 -0400 Received: from motgate4.mot.com ([144.189.100.102]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fum8-0004h2-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:50:24 -0400 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate4.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate4) with ESMTP id h4EBpOPR021218; Wed, 14 May 2003 04:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr03.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr03) with ESMTP id h4EBpKax027257; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:51:21 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31B7A2EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:51:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:51:18 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: >> Yes I did. I found mobile network, MR and MNN. It does not contain >> MNP (mobile network prefix). Can we suggest to Seamoby to add MNP >> to that document? > > > Indeed, it does, but not in the same section. For example, it would be nice to have the acronym MNP too. At the moment it only has the "Mobile Network Prefix". I suppose that the nemo terminology would not define MNP then, am I right? Alex From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 07:50:28 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13373 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4EBGuf05116 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:16:56 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBGuB05113 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:16:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13362 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FunY-0004hM-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:51:52 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FunX-0004hJ-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:51:51 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBG7B05092; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:16:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBFTB05066 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:15:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13333 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fum8-0004h5-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:50:25 -0400 Received: from motgate4.mot.com ([144.189.100.102]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fum8-0004h2-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:50:24 -0400 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate4.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate4) with ESMTP id h4EBpOPR021218; Wed, 14 May 2003 04:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr03.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr03) with ESMTP id h4EBpKax027257; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:51:21 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31B7A2EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:51:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:51:18 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: >> Yes I did. I found mobile network, MR and MNN. It does not contain >> MNP (mobile network prefix). Can we suggest to Seamoby to add MNP >> to that document? > > > Indeed, it does, but not in the same section. For example, it would be nice to have the acronym MNP too. At the moment it only has the "Mobile Network Prefix". I suppose that the nemo terminology would not define MNP then, am I right? Alex From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 08:18:01 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14832 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBiDB07215; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:44:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBhoB07200 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:43:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14757 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvDZ-00058d-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:45 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvDY-00057f-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:45 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 991175D17A; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:19:21 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:17:06 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> Yes I did. I found mobile network, MR and MNN. It does not contain > >> MNP (mobile network prefix). Can we suggest to Seamoby to add MNP > >> to that document? > > > > > > Indeed, it does, but not in the same section. > > For example, it would be nice to have the acronym MNP too. At the > moment it only has the "Mobile Network Prefix". > > I suppose that the nemo terminology would not define MNP then, am I right? Why not ? Proposition granted, will be in new draft. Thierry From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 08:18:40 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14879 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4EBj9007262 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:45:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBj9B07258 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:45:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14851 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvEq-0005AD-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:20:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvEq-0005AA-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:20:04 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBiDB07215; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:44:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBhoB07200 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:43:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14757 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvDZ-00058d-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:45 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvDY-00057f-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:45 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 991175D17A; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:19:21 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:17:06 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> Yes I did. I found mobile network, MR and MNN. It does not contain > >> MNP (mobile network prefix). Can we suggest to Seamoby to add MNP > >> to that document? > > > > > > Indeed, it does, but not in the same section. > > For example, it would be nice to have the acronym MNP too. At the > moment it only has the "Mobile Network Prefix". > > I suppose that the nemo terminology would not define MNP then, am I right? Why not ? Proposition granted, will be in new draft. Thierry From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 08:27:51 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15446 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBs3B07644; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:54:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBrYB07616 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:53:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15424 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvMz-0005MK-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:28:29 -0400 Received: from motgate6.mot.com ([144.189.100.106]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvMy-0005MH-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:28:28 -0400 Received: from il06exr06.mot.com (il06exr06.mot.com [129.188.137.136]) by motgate6.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate6) with ESMTP id h4ECTYW3002466; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr06.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr06) with ESMTP id h4ECTTnb027744; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:29:31 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6CA2EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:29:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:29:28 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: >>>> Yes I did. I found mobile network, MR and MNN. It does not >>>> contain MNP (mobile network prefix). Can we suggest to Seamoby >>>> to add MNP to that document? >>> >>> >>> Indeed, it does, but not in the same section. >> >> For example, it would be nice to have the acronym MNP too. At the >> moment it only has the "Mobile Network Prefix". >> >> I suppose that the nemo terminology would not define MNP then, am I >> right? > > > Why not ? Proposition granted, will be in new draft. Excellent. Along the same lines, please allow me to suggest grouping together the definitions of Mobile Network and the definition of Nested Mobile Networks. To me it makes sense to have those two inherently related terms defined together in one place. What do you think? Alex From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 08:28:29 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15484 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4EBsxO07667 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:54:59 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBsxB07664 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:54:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15465 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvOL-0005NE-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:29:53 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvOL-0005NB-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:29:53 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBs3B07644; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:54:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBrYB07616 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:53:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15424 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvMz-0005MK-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:28:29 -0400 Received: from motgate6.mot.com ([144.189.100.106]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvMy-0005MH-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:28:28 -0400 Received: from il06exr06.mot.com (il06exr06.mot.com [129.188.137.136]) by motgate6.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate6) with ESMTP id h4ECTYW3002466; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr06.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr06) with ESMTP id h4ECTTnb027744; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:29:31 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6CA2EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:29:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:29:28 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: >>>> Yes I did. I found mobile network, MR and MNN. It does not >>>> contain MNP (mobile network prefix). Can we suggest to Seamoby >>>> to add MNP to that document? >>> >>> >>> Indeed, it does, but not in the same section. >> >> For example, it would be nice to have the acronym MNP too. At the >> moment it only has the "Mobile Network Prefix". >> >> I suppose that the nemo terminology would not define MNP then, am I >> right? > > > Why not ? Proposition granted, will be in new draft. Excellent. Along the same lines, please allow me to suggest grouping together the definitions of Mobile Network and the definition of Nested Mobile Networks. To me it makes sense to have those two inherently related terms defined together in one place. What do you think? Alex From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 08:33:47 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15616 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EC09B07913; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:00:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBxSB07856 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:59:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15584 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvSh-0005P9-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:34:23 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvSg-0005Oh-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:34:23 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id D02FF5D17C; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:34:59 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:32:44 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Along the same lines, please allow me to suggest grouping together the > definitions of Mobile Network and the definition of Nested Mobile > Networks. To me it makes sense to have those two inherently related > terms defined together in one place. > > What do you think? Cannot be worked out because mobile network is defined in seamoby while nested mobile network is in NEMO terminology. Nested terms are really specific to NEMO, while mobile network is kind of generic term. Thierry From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 08:34:26 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15675 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4EC0ul07949 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:00:56 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EC0uB07946 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:00:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15635 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvU6-0005Q1-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:35:50 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvU6-0005Py-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:35:50 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EC09B07913; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:00:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EBxSB07856 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:59:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15584 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvSh-0005P9-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:34:23 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvSg-0005Oh-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:34:23 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id D02FF5D17C; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:34:59 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:32:44 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Along the same lines, please allow me to suggest grouping together the > definitions of Mobile Network and the definition of Nested Mobile > Networks. To me it makes sense to have those two inherently related > terms defined together in one place. > > What do you think? Cannot be worked out because mobile network is defined in seamoby while nested mobile network is in NEMO terminology. Nested terms are really specific to NEMO, while mobile network is kind of generic term. Thierry From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 08:45:53 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15887 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECCBB09354; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:12:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECBGB09314 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:11:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15871 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fve6-0005To-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:46:10 -0400 Received: from motgate6.mot.com ([144.189.100.106]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fve5-0005Tl-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:46:09 -0400 Received: from az33exr03.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate6.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate6) with ESMTP id h4EClDW3010420; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:47:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by az33exr03.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr03) with ESMTP id h4ECl9H4014558; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:47:10 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284F42EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:47:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:47:08 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: >> Along the same lines, please allow me to suggest grouping together >> the definitions of Mobile Network and the definition of Nested >> Mobile Networks. To me it makes sense to have those two inherently >> related terms defined together in one place. >> >> What do you think? > > > Cannot be worked out because mobile network is defined in seamoby > while nested mobile network is in NEMO terminology. Nested terms are > really specific to NEMO, while mobile network is kind of generic > term. [see section 5 "Specific Termino for manet", eventually they can section 6 "Specific Termino for NEMO"] The only reason I thought this could not be worked out was that probably it would be difficult to suggest this change to the generic Seamoby "Mobility Terminology" document. But we haven't yet tried. What do you think, is it worth trying to suggest to Seamoby to include Nested Mobile Networks in the generic "Mobility Terminology" document? Alex From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 08:46:35 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15924 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4ECD5V09379 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:13:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECD5B09376 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:13:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15915 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvfs-0005UM-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:48:00 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvfr-0005UJ-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:47:59 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECCBB09354; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:12:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECBGB09314 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:11:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15871 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fve6-0005To-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:46:10 -0400 Received: from motgate6.mot.com ([144.189.100.106]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fve5-0005Tl-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:46:09 -0400 Received: from az33exr03.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate6.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate6) with ESMTP id h4EClDW3010420; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:47:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by az33exr03.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr03) with ESMTP id h4ECl9H4014558; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:47:10 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284F42EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:47:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:47:08 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: >> Along the same lines, please allow me to suggest grouping together >> the definitions of Mobile Network and the definition of Nested >> Mobile Networks. To me it makes sense to have those two inherently >> related terms defined together in one place. >> >> What do you think? > > > Cannot be worked out because mobile network is defined in seamoby > while nested mobile network is in NEMO terminology. Nested terms are > really specific to NEMO, while mobile network is kind of generic > term. [see section 5 "Specific Termino for manet", eventually they can section 6 "Specific Termino for NEMO"] The only reason I thought this could not be worked out was that probably it would be difficult to suggest this change to the generic Seamoby "Mobility Terminology" document. But we haven't yet tried. What do you think, is it worth trying to suggest to Seamoby to include Nested Mobile Networks in the generic "Mobility Terminology" document? Alex From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 08:51:47 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16050 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECI5B09595; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECHCB09570 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:17:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16011 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvjr-0005WH-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:52:07 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvjq-0005W4-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:52:06 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 3FE745D18E; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:52:43 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:50:28 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514215028.5a1dd37b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > [see section 5 "Specific Termino for manet", eventually they can > section 6 "Specific Termino for NEMO"] > > The only reason I thought this could not be worked out was that probably > it would be difficult to suggest this change to the generic Seamoby > "Mobility Terminology" document. But we haven't yet tried. What do you > think, is it worth trying to suggest to Seamoby to include Nested Mobile > Networks in the generic "Mobility Terminology" document? Of course we tried, that was they have included some of our terminology ... But we need to keep the control on this term I think, so I didn't suggest this term to the J. Manner. I have suggested egress interface, ingress interface, mobile router, mobile network node, fixed node, mobile network, and network mobility. That's it, as far as I remember. Thierry From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 08:52:25 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16082 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4ECIuS09643 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:56 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECIuB09640 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16072 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvlW-0005X4-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:53:50 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvlV-0005X1-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:53:49 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECI5B09595; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECHCB09570 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:17:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16011 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvjr-0005WH-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:52:07 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvjq-0005W4-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:52:06 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 3FE745D18E; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:52:43 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:50:28 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514215028.5a1dd37b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > [see section 5 "Specific Termino for manet", eventually they can > section 6 "Specific Termino for NEMO"] > > The only reason I thought this could not be worked out was that probably > it would be difficult to suggest this change to the generic Seamoby > "Mobility Terminology" document. But we haven't yet tried. What do you > think, is it worth trying to suggest to Seamoby to include Nested Mobile > Networks in the generic "Mobility Terminology" document? Of course we tried, that was they have included some of our terminology ... But we need to keep the control on this term I think, so I didn't suggest this term to the J. Manner. I have suggested egress interface, ingress interface, mobile router, mobile network node, fixed node, mobile network, and network mobility. That's it, as far as I remember. Thierry From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 09:03:24 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16450 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECTBB10295; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:29:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECSMB10238 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:28:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16402 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvue-0005dF-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:03:16 -0400 Received: from motgate2.mot.com ([136.182.1.10]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvud-0005dC-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:03:15 -0400 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate2.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate2) with ESMTP id h4ED4Kjk000528; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr03.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr03) with ESMTP id h4ED4Hax009669; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:04:18 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3A02EC8B; Wed, 14 May 2003 15:04:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC23ED0.1020705@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:04:16 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514215028.5a1dd37b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514215028.5a1dd37b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: >> [see section 5 "Specific Termino for manet", eventually they can >> section 6 "Specific Termino for NEMO"] >> >> The only reason I thought this could not be worked out was that >> probably it would be difficult to suggest this change to the >> generic Seamoby "Mobility Terminology" document. But we haven't >> yet tried. What do you think, is it worth trying to suggest to >> Seamoby to include Nested Mobile Networks in the generic "Mobility >> Terminology" document? > > > Of course we tried, that was they have included some of our > terminology ... But we need to keep the control on this term I think, > so I didn't suggest this term to the J. Manner. I have suggested > egress interface, ingress interface, mobile router, mobile network > node, fixed node, mobile network, and network mobility. That's it, as > far as I remember. Good editors are open to frequent exchanges with authors. This would allow authors to keep control of the necessary terms. So, if your past interfacing experience with them was ok then there are good chances that future interfacing will be the same. Why not trying to suggest addition to nested terms (and eventually a new NEMO section) to Seamoby editors then? Depending on the fruits of this new interaction we can then try to become independent or to stick to that Seamoby doc. Alex From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 09:04:04 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16484 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:04:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4ECUZH10397 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:30:35 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECUYB10394 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:30:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16467 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvwm-0005eY-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:05:28 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvwm-0005eV-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:05:28 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECTBB10295; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:29:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECSMB10238 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:28:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16402 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvue-0005dF-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:03:16 -0400 Received: from motgate2.mot.com ([136.182.1.10]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvud-0005dC-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:03:15 -0400 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate2.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate2) with ESMTP id h4ED4Kjk000528; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr03.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr03) with ESMTP id h4ED4Hax009669; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:04:18 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3A02EC8B; Wed, 14 May 2003 15:04:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC23ED0.1020705@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:04:16 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514215028.5a1dd37b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514215028.5a1dd37b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: >> [see section 5 "Specific Termino for manet", eventually they can >> section 6 "Specific Termino for NEMO"] >> >> The only reason I thought this could not be worked out was that >> probably it would be difficult to suggest this change to the >> generic Seamoby "Mobility Terminology" document. But we haven't >> yet tried. What do you think, is it worth trying to suggest to >> Seamoby to include Nested Mobile Networks in the generic "Mobility >> Terminology" document? > > > Of course we tried, that was they have included some of our > terminology ... But we need to keep the control on this term I think, > so I didn't suggest this term to the J. Manner. I have suggested > egress interface, ingress interface, mobile router, mobile network > node, fixed node, mobile network, and network mobility. That's it, as > far as I remember. Good editors are open to frequent exchanges with authors. This would allow authors to keep control of the necessary terms. So, if your past interfacing experience with them was ok then there are good chances that future interfacing will be the same. Why not trying to suggest addition to nested terms (and eventually a new NEMO section) to Seamoby editors then? Depending on the fruits of this new interaction we can then try to become independent or to stick to that Seamoby doc. Alex From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 09:04:56 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16581 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECV4B10462; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:31:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECUnB10418 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:30:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16471 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvx1-0005ej-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:05:43 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvx0-0005eT-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:05:43 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 175DA5D0A1; Wed, 14 May 2003 22:06:20 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:04:05 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514220405.32a82c6c.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EC23ED0.1020705@nal.motlabs.com> References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514215028.5a1dd37b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ED0.1020705@nal.motlabs.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Good editors are open to frequent exchanges with authors. This would > allow authors to keep control of the necessary terms. > > So, if your past interfacing experience with them was ok then there are > good chances that future interfacing will be the same. Why not trying > to suggest addition to nested terms (and eventually a new NEMO section) > to Seamoby editors then? Depending on the fruits of this new > interaction we can then try to become independent or to stick to that > Seamoby doc. Because the Seamoby doc is already in the IESG hands. I don't see your point. Thierry From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 09:05:42 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16657 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4ECWDF10541 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:32:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECWCB10536 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:32:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16624 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvyK-0005fd-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:07:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FvyK-0005fa-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:07:04 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECV4B10462; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:31:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECUnB10418 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:30:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16471 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvx1-0005ej-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:05:43 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fvx0-0005eT-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:05:43 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 175DA5D0A1; Wed, 14 May 2003 22:06:20 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:04:05 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates Message-Id: <20030514220405.32a82c6c.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EC23ED0.1020705@nal.motlabs.com> References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514215028.5a1dd37b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ED0.1020705@nal.motlabs.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Good editors are open to frequent exchanges with authors. This would > allow authors to keep control of the necessary terms. > > So, if your past interfacing experience with them was ok then there are > good chances that future interfacing will be the same. Why not trying > to suggest addition to nested terms (and eventually a new NEMO section) > to Seamoby editors then? Depending on the fruits of this new > interaction we can then try to become independent or to stick to that > Seamoby doc. Because the Seamoby doc is already in the IESG hands. I don't see your point. Thierry From nemo-admin@ietf.org Wed May 14 09:18:22 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17005 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECiRB12177; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:44:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECgJB11989 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:42:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16898 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fw89-0005kZ-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:17:13 -0400 Received: from motgate.mot.com ([129.188.136.100]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fw88-0005kW-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:17:12 -0400 Received: from il06exr06.mot.com (il06exr06.mot.com [129.188.137.136]) by motgate.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate) with ESMTP id h4EDIJHG004865; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr06.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr06) with ESMTP id h4EDIFnb031216; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:16 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699F22EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 15:18:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC24216.6090304@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:18:14 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514215028.5a1dd37b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ED0.1020705@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514220405.32a82c6c.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514220405.32a82c6c.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: >> Good editors are open to frequent exchanges with authors. This >> would allow authors to keep control of the necessary terms. >> >> So, if your past interfacing experience with them was ok then there >> are good chances that future interfacing will be the same. Why >> not trying to suggest addition to nested terms (and eventually a >> new NEMO section) to Seamoby editors then? Depending on the fruits >> of this new interaction we can then try to become independent or >> to stick to that Seamoby doc. > > > Because the Seamoby doc is already in the IESG hands. I didn't know that. I'm certainly not as accustomed to the right procedure as you are. I doubt though that "being in the IESG" hands is an end of the story for any document. Mobile IP went through three revisiouns until now (rfc numbers I mean). If by any chance the IESG turns back a comment on lack of some mobility-related terms, maybe we should jump on that opportunity and add "nested mobile networks" to it, what do you think? > I don't see your point. Sorry, must be because I don't have that clear view of procedure and advancing of various documents. Alex From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 14 09:19:19 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17067 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4ECjoE12218 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:45:50 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECjoB12215 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:45:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17039 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FwBX-0005oH-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:20:43 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19FwBX-0005oE-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:20:43 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECiRB12177; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:44:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ECgJB11989 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:42:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16898 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fw89-0005kZ-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:17:13 -0400 Received: from motgate.mot.com ([129.188.136.100]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Fw88-0005kW-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:17:12 -0400 Received: from il06exr06.mot.com (il06exr06.mot.com [129.188.137.136]) by motgate.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate) with ESMTP id h4EDIJHG004865; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr06.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr06) with ESMTP id h4EDIFnb031216; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:18:16 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699F22EC86; Wed, 14 May 2003 15:18:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC24216.6090304@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:18:14 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Cc: nemo@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [nemo] Document Updates References: <20030508164935.71f538b2.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030514192403.131eb820.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC2201E.3020704@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514195924.49a72f02.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC22DB6.3040208@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514211706.1fb33f21.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC236A8.400@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514213244.3d0d0026.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ACC.7010708@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514215028.5a1dd37b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3EC23ED0.1020705@nal.motlabs.com> <20030514220405.32a82c6c.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030514220405.32a82c6c.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: >> Good editors are open to frequent exchanges with authors. This >> would allow authors to keep control of the necessary terms. >> >> So, if your past interfacing experience with them was ok then there >> are good chances that future interfacing will be the same. Why >> not trying to suggest addition to nested terms (and eventually a >> new NEMO section) to Seamoby editors then? Depending on the fruits >> of this new interaction we can then try to become independent or >> to stick to that Seamoby doc. > > > Because the Seamoby doc is already in the IESG hands. I didn't know that. I'm certainly not as accustomed to the right procedure as you are. I doubt though that "being in the IESG" hands is an end of the story for any document. Mobile IP went through three revisiouns until now (rfc numbers I mean). If by any chance the IESG turns back a comment on lack of some mobility-related terms, maybe we should jump on that opportunity and add "nested mobile networks" to it, what do you think? > I don't see your point. Sorry, must be because I don't have that clear view of procedure and advancing of various documents. Alex From nemo-admin@ietf.org Thu May 15 03:42:56 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29961 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F79RB06227; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:09:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F58RB19182 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:08:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16065 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:41:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GBW8-00044P-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:43:00 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GBW5-00044L-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:42:58 -0400 Received: from web14309.mail.yahoo.com (web14309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.59]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h4F5hrvk001530 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:43:57 +0200 Message-ID: <20030515054346.80302.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.94.6.28] by web14309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 May 2003 22:43:46 PDT Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:43:46 -0700 (PDT) From: atq atiq To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [nemo] guide me Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , dear, As a new in this nemo field, i need some supportive documents to designing 'route optimization' of nemo. Pls. let me know regarding this. Thanks for ur help in advance. Atq __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu May 15 03:43:45 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA00021 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4F7AdL06278 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:10:39 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F7AdB06275 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:10:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29979 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GDQL-0004wO-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:45:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GDQK-0004wK-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:45:08 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F79RB06227; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:09:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F58RB19182 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:08:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16065 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:41:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GBW8-00044P-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:43:00 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GBW5-00044L-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:42:58 -0400 Received: from web14309.mail.yahoo.com (web14309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.59]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h4F5hrvk001530 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:43:57 +0200 Message-ID: <20030515054346.80302.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.94.6.28] by web14309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 May 2003 22:43:46 PDT Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:43:46 -0700 (PDT) From: atq atiq To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [nemo] guide me Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , dear, As a new in this nemo field, i need some supportive documents to designing 'route optimization' of nemo. Pls. let me know regarding this. Thanks for ur help in advance. Atq __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From nemo-admin@ietf.org Thu May 15 04:49:36 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01168 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F8GLB10982; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:16:21 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F8FmB10947 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:15:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01144 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GERN-0005FC-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:50:17 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GERM-0005F6-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:50:17 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 41A835D013 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:50:55 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 17:48:38 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: nemo@ietf.org Message-Id: <20030515174838.3634d45b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [nemo] New drafts (Terminology and Requirements) Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Deal all, I have just sent a new version of both the requirement draft and the terminology draft. Before they shows on the IETF web site, you can take a look at them on the NEMO web page http://www.nal.motlabs.com/nemo/ The Requirement draft: - was brushed up according to last IETF meeting comments - I have included personal notes in Section 5. Some requirements are subject to be removed from the document, but we need to discuss it on the mailing list. Based on discussion, I would like to update the document again before the next Vienna meeting. - for changes, refer to the "Changes" section The Terminology draft: - was moved from personal document to NEMO WG group document - I remove text redundant with the requirement draft - some terms have been moved to the "Mobility Terminology" i-d in Seamoby WG - the multi-homing section was particularly enhanced. Please check - for changes, refer to the "Changes" section Thierry. From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu May 15 04:50:18 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01186 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4F8HDd11030 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:17:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F8HDB11027 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:17:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01183 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GESk-0005G0-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:51:42 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GESj-0005Fx-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:51:41 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F8GLB10982; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:16:21 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F8FmB10947 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:15:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01144 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GERN-0005FC-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:50:17 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GERM-0005F6-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:50:17 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 41A835D013 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:50:55 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 17:48:38 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: nemo@ietf.org Message-Id: <20030515174838.3634d45b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [nemo] New drafts (Terminology and Requirements) Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Deal all, I have just sent a new version of both the requirement draft and the terminology draft. Before they shows on the IETF web site, you can take a look at them on the NEMO web page http://www.nal.motlabs.com/nemo/ The Requirement draft: - was brushed up according to last IETF meeting comments - I have included personal notes in Section 5. Some requirements are subject to be removed from the document, but we need to discuss it on the mailing list. Based on discussion, I would like to update the document again before the next Vienna meeting. - for changes, refer to the "Changes" section The Terminology draft: - was moved from personal document to NEMO WG group document - I remove text redundant with the requirement draft - some terms have been moved to the "Mobility Terminology" i-d in Seamoby WG - the multi-homing section was particularly enhanced. Please check - for changes, refer to the "Changes" section Thierry. From nemo-admin@ietf.org Thu May 15 04:53:21 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01262 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:53:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F8K3B11168; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:20:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F8JrB11125 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:19:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01238 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GEVK-0005HI-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:54:22 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GEVI-0005HF-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:54:21 -0400 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4F8tGvk003149 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:55:21 +0200 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by ftpbox.mot.com (Motorola/Ftpbox) with ESMTP id h4F8t1of007227; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr03.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr03) with ESMTP id h4F8swax030395; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:54:59 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A7B2EC86; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:54:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC355E1.7010605@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:54:57 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atq atiq Cc: nemo@nal.motlabs.com Subject: Re: [nemo] guide me References: <20030515054346.80302.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030515054346.80302.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit atq atiq wrote: > dear, As a new in this nemo field, i need some supportive documents > to designing 'route optimization' of nemo. Hi Atq. One can think of RO for mobile networks. Maybe a good starting point is to get a good insight for RO for mobile hosts as defined by Mobile IPv6 draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-21.txt. [admin note: please subscribe to the list in order for your posts to show on the list; otherwise hey are held until manual approval, being initially equated to 'spam'] Alex From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu May 15 04:53:59 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01309 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4F8Ks011243 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:20:54 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F8KsB11240 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:20:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01295 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GEWJ-0005I8-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:55:23 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GEWI-0005I5-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:55:22 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F8K3B11168; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:20:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4F8JrB11125 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:19:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01238 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GEVK-0005HI-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:54:22 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GEVI-0005HF-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:54:21 -0400 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4F8tGvk003149 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:55:21 +0200 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by ftpbox.mot.com (Motorola/Ftpbox) with ESMTP id h4F8t1of007227; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr03.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr03) with ESMTP id h4F8swax030395; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:54:59 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A7B2EC86; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:54:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EC355E1.7010605@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:54:57 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atq atiq Cc: nemo@nal.motlabs.com Subject: Re: [nemo] guide me References: <20030515054346.80302.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030515054346.80302.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit atq atiq wrote: > dear, As a new in this nemo field, i need some supportive documents > to designing 'route optimization' of nemo. Hi Atq. One can think of RO for mobile networks. Maybe a good starting point is to get a good insight for RO for mobile hosts as defined by Mobile IPv6 draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-21.txt. [admin note: please subscribe to the list in order for your posts to show on the list; otherwise hey are held until manual approval, being initially equated to 'spam'] Alex From nemo-admin@ietf.org Fri May 16 07:00:27 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA18880 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GAR8B30945; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:27:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GAOCB30863 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:24:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA18793 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Gcue-0005rK-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:58:08 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GcuL-0005rC-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:57:59 -0400 Received: from ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.60]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4GAw5vk019464; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:58:15 +0200 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4GAtRS1025225; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:55:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 16 May 2003 12:57:39 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: [nemo] guide me Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:57:38 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] guide me Thread-Index: AcMav+ltjaDpE6RfTlmQKCwdLaWPJQA2f0KQ From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Alexandru Petrescu" , "atq atiq" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 May 2003 10:57:39.0268 (UTC) FILETIME=[F77DF840:01C31B99] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4GAPlB30895 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You may also look at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-thubert-nemo-ro-taxonomy-00.tx t I need to update it... Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexandru Petrescu [mailto:petrescu@nal.motlabs.com] > Sent: jeudi 15 mai 2003 10:55 > To: atq atiq > Cc: nemo@nal.motlabs.com > Subject: Re: [nemo] guide me > > > atq atiq wrote: > > dear, As a new in this nemo field, i need some supportive > documents to > > designing 'route optimization' of nemo. > > Hi Atq. One can think of RO for mobile networks. Maybe a > good starting point is to get a good insight for RO for > mobile hosts as defined by Mobile IPv6 > draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-21.txt. > > [admin note: please subscribe to the list in order for your posts to > show on the list; otherwise hey are held until manual approval, > being initially equated to 'spam'] > > Alex > > From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri May 16 07:01:11 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA18916 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4GASdY31025 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:28:39 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GASdB31022 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:28:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA18901 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Gcyw-0005st-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:02:34 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Gcyw-0005sn-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:02:34 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GAR8B30945; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:27:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GAOCB30863 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:24:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA18793 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Gcue-0005rK-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:58:08 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GcuL-0005rC-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:57:59 -0400 Received: from ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.60]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4GAw5vk019464; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:58:15 +0200 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4GAtRS1025225; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:55:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 16 May 2003 12:57:39 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: [nemo] guide me Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:57:38 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] guide me Thread-Index: AcMav+ltjaDpE6RfTlmQKCwdLaWPJQA2f0KQ From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Alexandru Petrescu" , "atq atiq" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 May 2003 10:57:39.0268 (UTC) FILETIME=[F77DF840:01C31B99] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4GAPlB30895 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You may also look at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-thubert-nemo-ro-taxonomy-00.tx t I need to update it... Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexandru Petrescu [mailto:petrescu@nal.motlabs.com] > Sent: jeudi 15 mai 2003 10:55 > To: atq atiq > Cc: nemo@nal.motlabs.com > Subject: Re: [nemo] guide me > > > atq atiq wrote: > > dear, As a new in this nemo field, i need some supportive > documents to > > designing 'route optimization' of nemo. > > Hi Atq. One can think of RO for mobile networks. Maybe a > good starting point is to get a good insight for RO for > mobile hosts as defined by Mobile IPv6 > draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-21.txt. > > [admin note: please subscribe to the list in order for your posts to > show on the list; otherwise hey are held until manual approval, > being initially equated to 'spam'] > > Alex > > From nemo-admin@ietf.org Fri May 16 07:30:48 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19810 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GAw8B00498; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:58:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GAqCB32664 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:52:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19647 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GdLj-0005yu-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:26:07 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GdLQ-0005yp-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:26:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4GBQNvk019843 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 13:26:32 +0200 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19559; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305161122.HAA19559@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: nemo@nal.motlabs.com From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:22:38 -0400 Subject: [nemo] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Mobility Working Group of the IETF. Title : Network Mobility Support Goals and Requirements Author(s) : T. Ernst Filename : draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2003-5-15 Network mobility arises when a router connecting an entire network to the Internet dynamically changes its point of attachment to the Internet therefrom causing the reachability of the entire network to be changed in the topology. Such kind of network is referred to as a mobile network. Without appropriate mechanisms, sessions established between nodes in the mobile network and the global Internet cannot be maintained while the mobile router changes its point of attachment. The required support mechanisms will be provided in two phases. The first phase, referred to as NEMO Basic Support is to provide session continuity while the necessary optimizations mechanims referred to as NEMO Extended Support might be provided later. This document outlines the goals expected from network mobility support and defines the requirements that must be met by NEMO Basic Support solutions. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-5-15150244.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-5-15150244.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri May 16 07:31:32 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19839 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4GAx0a00578 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:59:00 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GAx0B00575 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:59:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19834 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GdSJ-000622-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:32:55 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GdSJ-00061y-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:32:55 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GAw8B00498; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:58:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GAqCB32664 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:52:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19647 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GdLj-0005yu-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:26:07 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GdLQ-0005yp-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:26:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4GBQNvk019843 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 13:26:32 +0200 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19559; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305161122.HAA19559@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: nemo@nal.motlabs.com From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:22:38 -0400 Subject: [nemo] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Mobility Working Group of the IETF. Title : Network Mobility Support Goals and Requirements Author(s) : T. Ernst Filename : draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2003-5-15 Network mobility arises when a router connecting an entire network to the Internet dynamically changes its point of attachment to the Internet therefrom causing the reachability of the entire network to be changed in the topology. Such kind of network is referred to as a mobile network. Without appropriate mechanisms, sessions established between nodes in the mobile network and the global Internet cannot be maintained while the mobile router changes its point of attachment. The required support mechanisms will be provided in two phases. The first phase, referred to as NEMO Basic Support is to provide session continuity while the necessary optimizations mechanims referred to as NEMO Extended Support might be provided later. This document outlines the goals expected from network mobility support and defines the requirements that must be met by NEMO Basic Support solutions. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. 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This draft is a work item of the Network Mobility Working Group of the IETF. Title : Network Mobility Support Terminology Author(s) : T. Ernst, H. Lach Filename : draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2003-5-16 This document defines a terminology for discussing network mobility problems and solution requirements. Network mobility arises when a router connecting an entire network to the Internet dynamically changes its point of attachment to the Internet therefrom causing the reachability of the entire network to be changed in the topology. Such kind of network is referred to as a mobile network. Without appropriate mechanisms, sessions established between nodes in the mobile network and the global Internet cannot be maintained while the mobile router changes its point of attachment. 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To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-5-16151637.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-5-16151637.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon May 19 06:15:59 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14057 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4J9iqU02326 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:44:52 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4J9iqB02323 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:44:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14048 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Hhhl-0001YO-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:17:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Hhhl-0001YK-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:17:17 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4J9gxB02230; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:42:59 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4J9fjB02133 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:41:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13907 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Hhek-0001WX-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:14:10 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Hhei-0001WO-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:14:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4JAFFvk022903 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 12:15:18 +0200 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13832; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305191012.GAA13832@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: nemo@nal.motlabs.com From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 06:12:03 -0400 Subject: [nemo] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00.txt Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Mobility Working Group of the IETF. Title : Network Mobility Support Terminology Author(s) : T. Ernst, H. Lach Filename : draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2003-5-16 This document defines a terminology for discussing network mobility problems and solution requirements. Network mobility arises when a router connecting an entire network to the Internet dynamically changes its point of attachment to the Internet therefrom causing the reachability of the entire network to be changed in the topology. Such kind of network is referred to as a mobile network. Without appropriate mechanisms, sessions established between nodes in the mobile network and the global Internet cannot be maintained while the mobile router changes its point of attachment. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-5-16151637.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-nemo-terminology-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-5-16151637.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon May 19 09:16:26 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20076 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4JCjOP15212 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:45:24 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JCj8B15203 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:45:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20050 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HkWA-0003K7-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:17:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HkW9-0003K4-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:17:29 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JCiHB15146; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:44:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JCfhB15008 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:41:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20005 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HkSr-0003Ia-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:14:05 -0400 Received: from ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.60]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HkSl-0003I9-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:13:59 -0400 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4JDBa6o015877; Mon, 19 May 2003 15:12:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 19 May 2003 15:14:01 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:14:01 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Thread-Index: AcMPuHU+ylWCu12FSeiqxb26uHTkxwOSZGbQ From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Julien Charbon" , "Chan-Wah Ng" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 May 2003 13:14:01.0210 (UTC) FILETIME=[838C7DA0:01C31E08] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4JCgNB15045 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi again Chan Wah and Julien: I'm back from vacations :) I looked again at the w you introduced. Now I'm a bit confused. My initial statement on April 24th was x is for multiple parallel careOfs and y is for multiple egress routers. It seems my x is your w=0 and my y is your w=1. I subdivided x in 2 cases, and y too. Note that I insisted in saying that whether a MR has one or more egress interface should not be important in the protocol and that we should make the assumption that there are multiple interfaces, as we are talking about Mobile Routers. In other words it seems to me that the w is not too useful... For me, the problems are still the 4 I listed before. If I'm missing something, sorry about that :) Let me describe further the problems I see, x cases, Tarzan and JetSet and y cases, Shinkansen and doublebed: Tarzan: One MR building and registering (to same HA) several CareOf in order to maintain connectivity while moving is a MH(x=0) The Tarzan problem is the introduction of multiple CareOfs registered in parallel. This breaks the MIP paradigm. Whether they are on a single or multiple interfaces of the MR may not ne important, but I expect that they'll be on different access routers. Anyway, this introduces the load balancing / high availability problem in both directions. I understand that FMIP has already studied this some. Maybe we can start from there. JetSet: one MR that registers its prefix to Paris and New York at the same time in order to optimize routing is a MH(x=1) The JetSet is the case where the multiple CareOfs are not registered to the same HA. The HAs may be far away from each other. The JetSet problem is the collaboration of the HAs in order to accept multiple registrations, and the selection by the MR of the best via-HA to the correspondent. Correlated problem is to get the packets onto the active tuunels on the HA side. This is the problem for which I pointed out that a dynamic routing over the MRHA is needed, including for me whatever causes the MNP prefix to be injected in the Home AS routing protocol while the MR is registered. Shinkansen: A train with one prefix, one careof per MR and 2 MRs, which is a MH(y=0). Shinkansen is about the high availability of a prefix being registered by 2 different MRs. The problem is to make that transparent to the MNNs, so that if the MRHA tunnel of one MR fails, the MNNs traffic move to the other MR. Note that if we have both routers registering the same prefix at the same time, this is an x case too. But the second MR can be in hot standby, in which case this is not a x case. doubleBed: 2 MRs happening to share the same wireless media for their mobile prefix (Erik's problem) is a MH(y=1) Say MR1 has prefix P1 and HA1, and that MR2 has P2 via HA2. doubleBed problem is basically to allow traffic with a careOf in P2 to flow via MR1. This requires MR1 to accept P2 in its ingress filtering selection. This also requires, if MR2 is down, the HA1 sends traffic for P2 over MRHA1. In other words, MR1 has and advertises P2. Julien's case with an intermediate router is a good one. For me, this is a case where the MN is not a stub anymore, and should be ruled out of scope real quick. If you see other problems to be solved please update this discussion. I could also help on the draft if you wish... Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Julien Charbon [mailto:julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp] > Sent: jeudi 1 mai 2003 11:05 > To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com > Cc: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) > Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming > > > > Hi Pascal, Hi all, > > first, excuse me for my second mail [1]. You can put in > your trash. I'm so sorry. > > On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:00:11 +0100 > "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" wrote: > > > I like your work very much. Very useful and constructive :) > I hope we > > keep your pictures in the final taxonomy. > > Thanks you. I will try to continue as well. > > > A general remark, the fact that the multiple careofs are > one the same > > interface or on different interfaces does not strike me as > relevant. > > There must be a way for the MR to sort out the available > careOfs and > > use the best one(s). The interface that provides a careOf > is relevant > > in that selection. But the protocol to the Home Agent is > not impacted, > > is it? > > Well, It depends if you have just one bi-directionnal > tunnel between one HA and one MR or several. But the > Nemo-Requirement says : > > R02: The solution MUST set up a bi-directional tunnel between > MR and MR's Home Agent. ^ > > R03: All traffic exchanged between a MNN and a CN in the global > Internet MUST transit through the bidirectional tunnel. > ^^^ > > And so just ONE tunnel. Maybe this case will never be a > part of Nemo Basic Support. Conclusion: You are right. > > But Thierry said me the case with several tunnels is not > exclude in Nemo Basic Support, and that could exist a kind of > modularity to manage this case. > > > > So for the Tarzan you can have: > > > > > > - One multi-addressed MR. > > > > > > AR2 [P2] > > > _ _ _____ > > > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| | > > > _ |-|_|-| _ | |-| _ > > > |_|-| |-|_|-|_____| | _ |-|_| > > > |-|_|-| > > > | > > > AR1 [P1] > > > > > > MNNs MR Internet AR HA > > > > > > > > > - One "Multi-egress-interfaced" MR. > > > _____ > > > _ _ | | > > > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| |-| _ > > > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| > > > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > > > | > > > > > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > > > > > > > > - Two MR in multi-site case. > > > > > > P > > > ---> > > > _ _____ > > > _ |-|_|-| _ | | > > > |_|-| |-|_|-| |-| _ > > > _ | | |_____| | _ |-|_| > > > |_|-| _ | |-|_|-| > > > |-|_|-| | > > > > > > ---> > > > P > > > > > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > > > Yes, they are all Tarzan. The most typical in my mind is: Note that > > the [=] sign is extended to mean 'may or may not be the same > > interface' > > > > AR2 [P2] > > _ _ _____ > > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| | > > _ |-|_|= _ | |-| _ > > |_|-| |-|_|-|_____| | _ |-|_| > > |-|_|-| > > | > > AR1 [P1] > > > > MNNs MR Internet AR HA > > > > I see. Now this part is clear for me. > > > In the same way and to clean my Shinkansen & DoubleBed graphicals: > > - In the previous graphicals and in my mind it was: > > P1 > ---> > > The Mobile Network Prefix which is in Prefix Binding > Update. [Too complex to understand in my graphics] > > - Now it is: > > P1 > <--- > > The Mobile Network Prefix announced in the Mobile Network by the > Mobile Router. > > - The term Egress Router not exist in Nemo-Terminology. Mobile > Router is enough: > > The MR has one or more egress interface(s) and one or more > ingress interface(s). > > And so: > > o Shinkansen: > > [Single Mobile Network Prefix announced by Mobile Routers in the > Mobile Network] > > Example with two Egress Routers. > > P > <---- > > MR2 > _ | > _ |-|_|-| _____ > |_|-| |-| | > _ | | |-| _ > |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| |-|_|-| > | | > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA > > <---- > P > > o DoubleBed: > > [Multiple Mobile Network Prefix announced by Mobile Router in > the Mobile Network] > > Example with two Egress Routers. > > P2 > <---- > > MR2 > _ | > _ |-|_|-| _____ > |_|-| |-| | > _ | | |-| _ > |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| |-|_|-| > | | > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA > > <---- > P1 > > Example with one Egress Router. [Rarely used but... It exists] > > > P2 _____ > _ <--- _ | | > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| | > _ |-|_|-| |_____|-| _ > |_|-| | | _ |-|_| > <--- |-|_|-| > P1 | > > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA2 > > [This example is maybe not a good one because the MR have two > Ingress Addresses and so the Nemo protocol must deal with] > [Maybe too particular] > > > > In all this examples the HA will have two CoAs for the same > > > prefix in one HA. According with your definition they are Tarzan > > > cases. > > > > Shinkansen and doubleBed are Tarzans by definition. > > Aarrgh ! My comprehension ! Example : > > [HAx is the Home Agent for the MRx Mobile Router] > > P AR HA1 > <--- > MR1 _ | > _ | |-|_|-| _ > _ |-|_|-| _____ | |-|_| > |_|-| |-| |-| > _ | | | > |_|-| _ |-|_____|-| _ > |-|_|-| | _ |-|_| > | |-|_|-| > | > MNNs MR2 Internet > <--- > P AR HA2 > > > This case is Shinkansen: > [The same Mobile Network Prefix is advertise to the MNNs] > > But a JetSet case too: [Not a Tarzan case] > [Multiple HAs for CoAs of a same Mobile Network Prefix] > > But it is just a detail. > > > > > Any IPv6 node may build multiple global addresses. Long > as we do > > > > not register several CareOfs at the same time, it's not a Nemo > > > > issue, it's a standard feature. > > > > > > I just add a remark : > > > > > > - Example with one MR multi-addressed. > > > > > > AR2 [P2] > > > _ _ _____ > > > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| | > > > _ |-|_|-| _ | |-| _ > > > |_|-| |-|_|-|_____| | _ |-|_| > > > |-|_|-| > > > | > > > AR1 [P1] > > > > > > MNNs MR Internet AR HA > > > > > > P1/P2: Differents IPv6 /64 Prefix. > > > > > > And of course Ingress Filtering is made on AR1 and AR2. > > > > > > So the MR may have this two IPv6 global address : > > > > > > P2:EUI-64-MR and P1:EUI-64-MR > > > > > > If the bi-directional tunnel between the MR and the HA pass > > > through AR2 and if AR2 is destroyed by Tarzan anger [the > real one] > > > and so its reachability to the Internet lost, how the > NEMO mechanism > > > should deal with this case ? > > > So I think Multi-Addressed Multi-Homing is an important case in > > > NEMO, not just a standard fearture. [But maybe I'm wrong]. Also > > > maybe it will be resolve by the same mechanism in NEMO, > so I put it > > > with the Multi-Interfaced case. > > > > Reread me well: I meant that if you register only one CareOf at a > > given point of time, it is a standard MIP flows. If a MIP MN sees 2 > > ARs on a link, it can build 2 careOfs, but can only bind > the primary. > > If the primary careOf fails to bind, or times out rebinding, a > > standard MIP MN should go try the next available careOf. > That process > > is not necessarily described in MIPv6, but should it? > > With this explanation, is clear for me now [again]. And > effectively is a standard issue for an Ipv6 Mobile Node. [In > my mind it was for all Ipv6 Node]. > > > Now, if you have 2 concurent tunnels, it is a whole new > problem, to be > > designed :) . The HA may try to load balance over the 2 > tunnels, and > > if one dies, we must make sure the HA knows quite fast. For > instance > > by encapsulating over TCP or SCTP. Anyway, it's one of the good > > problems to resolve if we want multiple careOfs. > > Yes. Now the fact is to know if it is a required feature in > Nemo Basic Support or is for Nemo Next Generation. > > > > But I think the management of Multiple CoAs per Network > Prefix may provide to Nemo some interesting Multi-Homing > benefits like : > > o Fault-Tolerance/Redundancy. > o Load-Sharing. > o Policy Management. > > And it is possible to deploy because [in Nemo Basic > Support] all traffic past in tunnel(s) between HA(s) and > MR(s) and so the traffic in this tunnel can be policed as you > wish. [You don't touch at Correspondant Node Mobile Ipv6 Stack]. > > In Mobile Ipv6 is harder to realize/deploy. > > But I don't forget the Pandora's box style of Multi-Homing. > > > > > Multihoming is not trivial, we'll have to decide whether to > amend the > > requirements draft for basic about that. > > So Nemo Basic Support can support only the Redundancy > Multi-Homing benefit; or more benefits [Load-Sharing, Policy] > and become more complex. [Too complex for a Basic Support ?] > > Maybe the design team have a begin of answer. > > > > > Comments anyone? > > > > > > I think you have found the good discrimants to classify the > > > Multi-Homing in NEMO. So I have just read the Chan Wah Ng's mail > > > [2], and just by taking again his classification and ours : > > > > > > And I obtain (w, x, y) : > > > > > > with > > > > > > w: 0: A Mobile Router have more than one Global IPv6 Address. > > > OR a Mobile Router have more than one Interface. > > > 1: There is more then one Egress Mobile Router. > > > > > I expect that in any case you imply that multiple CareOfs are > > registered in parallel, right? > > Yes, I think you are right [again]. Now I understand your > proposition with "only" four classes of problem. > > > > x: 0: There is single HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. > > > 1: There is muliple HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. > > > > > > > I meant mobile prefixes, no the prefix that the careOf is > built upon. > > I'm sure you mean that too? > > Yes, I rewrite sharper: > > x: 0: There is single HA for CoAs of a same Mobile Network Prefix. > 1: There are muliple HA for CoAs of a same Mobile > Network Prefix. > > > > y: 0: A single Prefix is announced by Egress Router(s). > > > 1: Muliple Prefix are announced by Egress Router(s). > > > > I meant present on INGRESS; see the discussion with Hesham; > is this a > > typo or is there a misunderstanding between us? > > Yes, this definition provide misunderstanding, I rewrite : > > y: 0: A single Mobile Network Prefix is announced by Mobile > Router(s). > 1: Muliple Mobile Network Prefix are announced by Mobile > Router(s). > > or the Chan Wah Ng's one is better [more general]: > > y: 0: A single prefix is advertise to the MNNs > 1: More than one prefices is advertised to the MNNs > > or maybe your definition is more understandable and the good one: > > y: 0: Same Mobile Network Prefix for Mobile Router of the same link. > 1: Differents Mobile Network Prefix for Mobile Router of > the same link. > > or I really misunderstand. [It is an another possibility] > > So an interresting case to clear this point : > > _ p1 MR1 AR1 HA1 > |_|-| <--_ ISP1 ________ > _ |---|_|--------| | | _ > |_|-| | |-| _ |-|_| > \ <-- | | |-|_|-| > Intern \_ p1 | | | > Router |_| |Internet| > / p2 | | > _ / <-- | | | _ > |_|-| _ | |-| _ |-|_| > _ |---|_|--------|________| |-|_|-| > |_|-| <-- ISP2 ISP3 | > p2 MR2 > MNN AR2 HA2 > > This case is a DoubleBed case because if the ISP1 link fail > the problem is: > > How past the p1 prefix's packets through the MR2_HA2 tunnel > then through the AR2 link with the Cerberus Ingress Filtering > made by ISP3. > > [An example of solution is in [2] [Section 3.2.2., Using > Alternate Mobile Router]] > > So my preferred definition is the Chan Wah Ng's one: > > y: 0: A single prefix is advertise to the MNNs > 1: More than one prefices is advertised to the MNNs > > > I do agree with your vision. My view is a summarization to focus on > > where the problems are in my own view. We may start your standpoint > > and see what are the meaningful case between the 8 > combinations. For > > instance (0,0,1) is a trivial extension of (0,0,0). > > I think you want to write : > > "For instance (1,0,0) is a trivial extension of (0,0,0)" > > > Like this, we'll find my 4 problems, and other if I missed some? Do > > you want to pursue that way? Pascal > > So, is it enough ? > > [Two days of reflection later...] > > So the main goal of a taxonomy is to define a class of > problem, name it, and permit to say after: The solution for > the problem is ... > > With this four classes can we say the solution for the > Tarzan problem is ... ? Difficult because - for example - > this two cases need differents solutions: > > - One "Multi-egress-interfaced" MR. > > P _____ > _ <-- _ | | > |_|-| _ |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > | > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > > - Two MR in multi-site case. > > P > <--- > _ _____ > _ |-|_|-| _ | | > |_|-| |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ | | |_____| | _ |-|_| > |_|-| _ | |-|_|-| > |-|_|-| | > > <--- > P > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > And this two examples are Shinkansen too. So it is why > [maybe] an another level [w] would be appreciable. What is > your position on this specific example ? > > Well, I think you provide elsewhere the good taxonomy. > Thanks you for your judicious and constructives remarks. > > > -- Julien > > > [1] http://www.nal.motlabs.com/pipermail/nemo/2003-April/000567.html > [2] http://www.psl.com.sg/draft-ng-nemo-multihoming-issues-00.txt > From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon May 19 09:40:10 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20609 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4JD99417679 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:09:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JD99B17676 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:09:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20590 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HktO-0003U4-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:41:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HktN-0003Ty-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:41:29 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JD8WB17637; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:08:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JD69B16514 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:06:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20490 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HkqV-0003Rk-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:38:31 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HkqM-0003RH-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:38:24 -0400 Received: from ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.60]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4JDcYvk026935 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 15:38:37 +0200 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4JDaM1Q020667; Mon, 19 May 2003 15:36:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 19 May 2003 15:38:09 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple egress/homeing operations in MRTP/PSBU Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:38:06 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] Multiple egress/homeing operations in MRTP/PSBU Thread-Index: AcMVMWDj0k5xpngcRz6SD3sDpgKkawI2NNRw From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Koshiro MITSUYA" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 May 2003 13:38:09.0763 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2F42330:01C31E0B] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4JD7UB17241 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > ---------- > Tarzan > > - a MR has CoA1, CoA2 and a Prefix, And there is a sigle HA. > > If a MR has 2 CoA, MR bind only the primary one. If CoA1 is > primary, then MR sends BU using CoA1. > > > We can use same mechanism as "draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa" > for Load Sharing. Please refer to [1]. Right, this is what I call Tarzan > > > ---------- > Jet-Set > > - a MR has CoA1, CoA2 and a Prefix, And there are HA1 and HA2. > > Maybe a MR know the list of HAs by using DHAAD, and MR will decide > that the primary CoA to each HA. If MR decide that CoA1 is primary > to HA1, then MR sends BU using CoA1 to HA1. And MR decide that CoA2 > is primary to HA2, then MR sends BU using CoA2 to HA2. May be we can > keep such kind of BU list. > I plain MIP, the second registration should not be accepted, even on a different HA. On top of that, we try to avoid the concept of home network and make the HAs potentially hops away from each other. > If you don't have any policy to decide the primary one, it's gonna > be same case as source address selection, like round-robin > algorithm. > > > we can chose a primary CoA with some policy from there restriction > [security, access control, reachability,...]. In this case, we may > investigate new specification to nemo spec. For exmaple, MR has this > kind of policy, > > priority | high low > ---------|-------------------------- > HA1 | WirelessLAN PDC > HA2 | PDC WirelessLAN > > When WirelessLAN and PDC are available, the primary CoA for HA1 is > CoA of WirelessLAN, and the primary for HA2 is CoA of PDC. When > WirelessLAN is down, the primary CoA for HA1 will be CoA of PDC. > > What I have in mind is to make sure that if the MR and the correspondent are in NY, then the MR makes sure that the HA in NY is used as opposed to the one in Paris... For instance by using the MRHA tunnel from which the correspondent's packets arrive to respond. > ---------- > Shinkansen > > - MR1 has CoA1, MR2 has CoA2 and a Prefix advertised by MR1 and > MR2. And there is a HA. > > Each MR register own BU to a HA. HA has two binding corresponding to > a Prefix. HA choose the binding by using round-robin algorism. > FOr example, MR1 has H@1, MR2 has H@2, then a HA has following BC. > > MIP binding cache > H@1 -> CoA1 > H@2 -> CoA2 > > NEMO binding cache > Prefix -> H@1 (use round > Prefix -> H@2 robin algorism) > > If a HA receive a packet destinated to example::beef. HA search > example::beef in NEMO binding cache at first, If found, search > corresponding H@ in MIP binding cache and act as NEMO HA. If not > found, search example::beef in MIP binding cache and act as MIP HA. > > > One idea of Load Sharing, a HA has the policy to decide which MR is > higher. Maybe a operator of HA set the priority statically, like MR1 > is higher than MR2. > > If users/owner of MR want to decide the priority statically, users > can put the policy to each MR, and MRs can send BU with the > priority. > > If you act it dynamically, we need more concerns ;-) > > > > ---------- > Double-bed > > - MR1 has CoA1 and advertise Prefix1, MR2 has CoA2 and advertise > Prefix2. And there is a HA. > > Each MR register own BU to a HA. HA has two binding Prefix1->CoA1 > and Prefix2->CoA2. MNNs act source address selection. > > > [1] http://www.nal.motlabs.com/pipermail/nemo/2003-April/000575.html > > > thanks, > Koshiro > From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue May 20 04:29:05 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02918 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4K7wQD09929 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 03:58:26 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4K7wPB09926 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 03:58:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02915 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:28:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I2Vq-0002gF-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:30:22 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I2Vq-0002gC-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:30:22 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4K7vmB09889; Tue, 20 May 2003 03:57:49 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4K7uqB09857 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 03:56:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02897 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I2UL-0002ft-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:28:49 -0400 Received: from mailsrv.psl.com.sg ([202.14.153.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I2UJ-0002fm-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:28:48 -0400 Received: from beethoven.psl.com.sg (beethoven.psl.com.sg [10.81.113.99]) by mailsrv.psl.com.sg (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h4K8MIi09582; Tue, 20 May 2003 16:22:18 +0800 (SGT) Received: by beethoven.psl.com.sg (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B234A10E95DA; Tue, 20 May 2003 16:31:46 +0800 (SGT) Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming From: Chan-Wah Ng To: Pascal "Thubert (pthubert)" Cc: Julien Charbon , IETF NEMO WG In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Panasonic Singapore Laboratories Message-Id: <1053419506.1790.58.camel@beethoven> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4- Date: 20 May 2003 16:31:46 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Pascal, and Julien On Mon, 2003-05-19 at 21:14, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Hi again Chan Wah and Julien: > > I'm back from vacations :) > Welcome back. > I looked again at the w you introduced. Now I'm a bit confused. My > initial statement on April 24th was x is for multiple parallel careOfs > and y is for multiple egress routers. It seems my x is your w=0 and my y > is your w=1. I subdivided x in 2 cases, and y too. Note that I insisted > in saying that whether a MR has one or more egress interface should not > be important in the protocol and that we should make the assumption that > there are multiple interfaces, as we are talking about Mobile Routers. I agree it is not important how many egress interfaces a mobile router has. That's not what 'w' is. 'w' is used to differentiate between whether there is a single mobile router or multiple mobile routers in the mobile network. > > In other words it seems to me that the w is not too useful... For me, > the problems are still the 4 I listed before. If I'm missing something, > sorry about that :) You may have misunderstood 'w'. See if you still think there is no difference whether there is a single MR or there is multiple MR. > > Let me describe further the problems I see, x cases, Tarzan and JetSet > and y cases, Shinkansen and doublebed: > > Tarzan: One MR building and registering (to same HA) several CareOf in > order to maintain connectivity while moving is a MH(x=0) I interpret x=0 as a single HA. > > The Tarzan problem is the introduction of multiple CareOfs registered in > parallel. This breaks the MIP paradigm. Whether they are on a single or > multiple interfaces of the MR may not ne important, but I expect that > they'll be on different access routers. Anyway, this introduces the load > balancing / high availability problem in both directions. I understand > that FMIP has already studied this some. Maybe we can start from there. > > JetSet: one MR that registers its prefix to Paris and New York at the > same time in order to optimize routing is a MH(x=1) > I interpret x=1 as two or more HA. > The JetSet is the case where the multiple CareOfs are not registered to > the same HA. The HAs may be far away from each other. The JetSet problem > is the collaboration of the HAs in order to accept multiple > registrations, and the selection by the MR of the best via-HA to the > correspondent. Correlated problem is to get the packets onto the active > tuunels on the HA side. This is the problem for which I pointed out that > a dynamic routing over the MRHA is needed, including for me whatever > causes the MNP prefix to be injected in the Home AS routing protocol > while the MR is registered. > > Shinkansen: A train with one prefix, one careof per MR and 2 MRs, which > is a MH(y=0). > I interpret y=0 as a single prefix advertised to MNNs. The way you define it, it will be a (w=1,x=*,y=0) under Julien and my classifications. > Shinkansen is about the high availability of a prefix being registered > by 2 different MRs. The problem is to make that transparent to the MNNs, > so that if the MRHA tunnel of one MR fails, the MNNs traffic move to the > other MR. Note that if we have both routers registering the same prefix > at the same time, this is an x case too. But the second MR can be in hot > standby, in which case this is not a x case. > > doubleBed: 2 MRs happening to share the same wireless media for their > mobile prefix (Erik's problem) is a MH(y=1) I interpret y=1 as a multiple prefix advertised to MNNs. The way you define it, it will be a (w=1,x=*,y=1) under Julien and my classifications. > Say MR1 has prefix P1 and HA1, and that MR2 has P2 via HA2. doubleBed > problem is basically to allow traffic with a careOf in P2 to flow via > MR1. This requires MR1 to accept P2 in its ingress filtering selection. > This also requires, if MR2 is down, the HA1 sends traffic for P2 over > MRHA1. In other words, MR1 has and advertises P2. Julien's case with an > intermediate router is a good one. For me, this is a case where the MN > is not a stub anymore, and should be ruled out of scope real quick. > > If you see other problems to be solved please update this discussion. I > could also help on the draft if you wish... We will have agree on each others taxonomy first ... I admit that our 8 classifications may be a bit overkill, and some of them may turn out to trivial. But IMHO, a draft should be there to document such a deduction of triviality and the draft Julien and I are co-authoring is exactly to do this. In trying to merge our classifications, I way I see it is this: Tarzan is (w=0,x=0,y=*) JetSet is (w=0,x=1,y=*) Shinkansen is (w=1,x=*,y=0) Doublebed is (w=1,x=*,y=1) By the way, on careful inspection of your definitions, your x and y are not orthogonal but mutually exclusive, since Tarzan and JetSet specifies (one MR) and Shinkasen and Doublebed specifies 2 MRs. /rgds /cwng From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue May 20 06:32:05 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA05113 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4KA1QB18994 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:01:26 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4KA1QB18991 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:01:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA05093 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I4Qq-0003H6-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:33:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I4Qq-0003H2-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:33:20 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4KA0iB18897; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:00:44 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4K9xwB18763 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 05:59:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA05016 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I4PQ-0003Gi-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:31:52 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I4PQ-0003Ge-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:31:52 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 May 2003 12:32:06 +0100 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4KAUiKo003570; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:30:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 20 May 2003 12:32:39 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:32:39 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Thread-Index: AcMeqe5lRozQE63PSP2IT7folEeoywAB8I+g From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Chan-Wah Ng" Cc: "Julien Charbon" , "IETF NEMO WG" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2003 10:32:39.0797 (UTC) FILETIME=[2363DA50:01C31EBB] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4K9xxB18782 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > I agree it is not important how many egress interfaces a > mobile router has. That's not what 'w' is. 'w' is used to > differentiate between whether there is a single mobile router > or multiple mobile routers in the mobile network. > > > > > In other words it seems to me that the w is not too > useful... For me, > > the problems are still the 4 I listed before. If I'm missing > > something, sorry about that :) > > You may have misunderstood 'w'. See if you still think there > is no difference whether there is a single MR or there is multiple MR. > I call an x case what Julien refers to as w=0 (as opposed as you). And I call a y case what both of you call w=1. Quoting " And I obtain (w, x, y) : with w: 0: A Mobile Router have more than one Global IPv6 Address. OR a Mobile Router have more than one Interface. 1: There is more then one Egress Mobile Router. x: 0: There is single HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. 1: There is muliple HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. y: 0: A single Prefix is announced by Egress Router(s). 1: Muliple Prefix are announced by Egress Router(s). " I think Julien is better with his w=0, if he removes "OR a Mobile Router have more than one Interface". But then the problems for w=0 and w=1 are not exclusive (as I'll detail further, read on). So w is just misleading. I think it brings nothing and should be dropped. > > > > Let me describe further the problems I see, x cases, Tarzan > and JetSet > > and y cases, Shinkansen and doublebed: > > > > Tarzan: One MR building and registering (to same HA) > several CareOf in > > order to maintain connectivity while moving is a MH(x=0) > > I interpret x=0 as a single HA. Yes, and it's an x meaning multiple careOf active in parallel. > > > > > The Tarzan problem is the introduction of multiple CareOfs > registered > > in parallel. This breaks the MIP paradigm. Whether they are on a > > single or multiple interfaces of the MR may not ne important, but I > > expect that they'll be on different access routers. Anyway, this > > introduces the load balancing / high availability problem in both > > directions. I understand that FMIP has already studied this some. > > Maybe we can start from there. > > > > JetSet: one MR that registers its prefix to Paris and New > York at the > > same time in order to optimize routing is a MH(x=1) > > > I interpret x=1 as two or more HA. > > > The JetSet is the case where the multiple CareOfs are not > registered > > to the same HA. The HAs may be far away from each other. The JetSet > > problem is the collaboration of the HAs in order to accept multiple > > registrations, and the selection by the MR of the best > via-HA to the > > correspondent. Correlated problem is to get the packets onto the > > active tuunels on the HA side. This is the problem for > which I pointed > > out that a dynamic routing over the MRHA is needed, > including for me > > whatever causes the MNP prefix to be injected in the Home > AS routing > > protocol while the MR is registered. > > > > Shinkansen: A train with one prefix, one careof per MR and 2 MRs, > > which is a MH(y=0). > > > I interpret y=0 as a single prefix advertised to MNNs. The > way you define it, it will be a (w=1,x=*,y=0) under Julien > and my classifications. It may not be an x at all if one MR does not actually register (hot stand by). This is not the problem addressed. But for most practical cases, yes. > > > Shinkansen is about the high availability of a prefix being > registered > > by 2 different MRs. The problem is to make that transparent to the > > MNNs, so that if the MRHA tunnel of one MR fails, the MNNs traffic > > move to the other MR. Note that if we have both routers registering > > the same prefix at the same time, this is an x case too. But the > > second MR can be in hot standby, in which case this is not a x case. > > > > doubleBed: 2 MRs happening to share the same wireless media > for their > > mobile prefix (Erik's problem) is a MH(y=1) > > I interpret y=1 as a multiple prefix advertised to MNNs. The > way you define it, it will be a (w=1,x=*,y=1) under Julien > and my classifications. > > Again, it may not be an x. But for most practical cases, yes. > > Say MR1 has prefix P1 and HA1, and that MR2 has P2 via HA2. > doubleBed > > problem is basically to allow traffic with a careOf in P2 > to flow via > > MR1. This requires MR1 to accept P2 in its ingress filtering > > selection. This also requires, if MR2 is down, the HA1 > sends traffic > > for P2 over MRHA1. In other words, MR1 has and advertises > P2. Julien's > > case with an intermediate router is a good one. For me, > this is a case > > where the MN is not a stub anymore, and should be ruled out > of scope > > real quick. > > > > If you see other problems to be solved please update this > discussion. > > I could also help on the draft if you wish... > > We will have agree on each others taxonomy first ... I admit > that our 8 classifications may be a bit overkill, and some of > them may turn out to trivial. But IMHO, a draft should be > there to document such a deduction of triviality and the > draft Julien and I are co-authoring is exactly to do this. > There is a difference between trivial and irrelevant... > In trying to merge our classifications, I way I see it is this: > > Tarzan is (w=0,x=0,y=*) > JetSet is (w=0,x=1,y=*) > Shinkansen is (w=1,x=*,y=0) > Doublebed is (w=1,x=*,y=1) > No. According to Julien's definition: Tarzan is (w=0,x=0) whether there's a y at all does not change the problem addressed here JetSet is (w=0,x=1) Shinkansen is (w=1,y=0) Doublebed is (w=1,y=1) You are in multihoming if you are either x, y or both. In your Julien's terms, for w=0 or w=1. Both w values can be split in 2 subcases, ending up with my list. Look at your cases... For instance, what is (w=0, x=0, y=*)? > By the way, on careful inspection of your definitions, your x > and y are not orthogonal but mutually exclusive, since Tarzan > and JetSet specifies (one MR) and Shinkasen and Doublebed > specifies 2 MRs. > No. They are defining problems that are orthogonal and should be addressed separately. I just expressed the 4 problems in the mail you answer to, please read that much carefully, and feel free to improve it for what's missing or unclear. Let's illustrate what I mean by orthogonal: for instance, you have the Tarzan problem in a train with 2 MRs and one prefix, where both MR attach to the same HA.That Tarzan problem should still be handled the Tarzan way, even though there are 2 MRs. The fact that there are 2 MRs causes that there is the Shinkansen problem to solve as well, and that it should be solved the Shinkansen way, regardless of the fact that there are 2 CareOfs in parallel, which has already been solved by Tarzan. Is that a bit clearer now? If not, please enumarate your 8 possibilities and tell me the 8 specific problems you have to solve, the way I just expressed the 4 that I understand... Maybe it will help. I think you are still configuration minded at this point... There are many many of them, but not as many problems, hopefully. Pascal From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue May 20 17:26:06 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA00931 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4KKqaf02717 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 16:52:36 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4KKqaB02714 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 16:52:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA00915 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IEam-0000pd-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:24:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IEam-0000pZ-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:24:16 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4KKpIB02689; Tue, 20 May 2003 16:51:18 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4KGEDB15270 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:14:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20928 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:46:28 -0400 (EDT) From: conf@uha.fr Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IAFU-0006o0-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:46:00 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IAFS-0006nw-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:45:58 -0400 Received: from dnsinterne.uha.fr (ngc45.uha.fr [194.167.107.45]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4KGlFvk005667 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:47:16 +0200 Received: from admpcsrv1.uha.fr (admpcsrv1.uha.fr [192.168.11.2]) by dnsinterne.uha.fr (8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h4KGmRh25206; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:48:27 +0200 Received: from grtc2.uha.fr ([192.168.12.156]) by admpcsrv1.uha.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.10) with ESMTP id 2003052018254147:230 ; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:25:41 +0200 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030520182201.00b50f80@admpcsrv1.uha.fr> X-Sender: conf@admpcsrv1.uha.fr (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:22:13 +0200 To: conf@uha.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on ADMPCSRV1/SRV/COLMAR(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 20/05/2003 18:25:41, Serialize by Router on ADMPCSRV1/SRV/COLMAR(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 20/05/2003 18:33:03, Serialize complete at 20/05/2003 18:33:03 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_114627445==_.ALT" Subject: [nemo] CfP - ICN'2004 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=====================_114627445==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (* Our apologies if you receive this multiple times* ) CALL FOR PAPERS 3rd International Conference on Networking (ICN'04) March 1-4, 2004 Pointe-=E0-Pitre, Guadeloupe, French Caribbean http://conf.uha.fr/ICN04.html GENERAL INFORMATION The 2004 International Conference on Networking (ICN'04) is sponsored by=20 IEEE/Comsoc CSIM committee, IEEE/Computer and by IEE. ICN'04 is organized=20 by academic, research and industrial societies will be held from Monday=20 March 1, 2004 to Thursday March 4, 2004. In order to encourage closer interaction between academic and industrial=20 networking research communities, we solicit both academic research papers=20 and industrial contributions. The 3rd edition of ICN will be held in=20 Pointe-=E0-Pitre, Guadeloupe. ICN 2004 will offer tutorials, plenary=20 sessions, poster sessions, panels and exhibition opportunities. TOPICS OF SPECIAL INTEREST Topics of interest include, but are not limited to the following: Communications switching and routing Communications modelling Communications security Computer communications Multimedia and multicast communications Next Generation Network Network Management and control Quality of Service Wireless Communications (Satellite, WLL, 4G) Voice over IP Network, control and service architectures Network signalling Optical networking Distributed communications Traffic engineering Telecommunication networks architectures Performance evaluation, simulation Mobile networking and systems Applications and case studies Protocol design and evaluation MPLS, GMPLS These topics can be discussed in term of concepts, state of the art,=20 standards, implementations, running experiments and applications. INSTRUCTIONS FOR AUTHORS Mail four papers OR E-mail preferably in PDF format your original paper (6= =20 or 8 pages). All the manuscripts must be written in English. The top of the= =20 first page of each paper should include the title of the paper, authors'=20 name, position, address, telephone and fax numbers, e-mail of the author=20 responsible for correspondence and a list of four keywords. The deadline=20 for submission of all extended papers is September 10, 2003 with=20 notification of acceptance by October 10, 2003. Submission of camera-ready= =20 paper is by November 10, 2003. Authors of accepted papers will be invited to submit full-length=20 manuscripts for inclusion in the proceedings with ISBN. All hard copies papers should be sent to the following address: Pascal LORENZ University of Haute Alsace 34 rue du Grillenbreit 68008 Colmar, France Phone: 33 (0)389202366 Fax: 33 (0)389202359 Mobile: 33 (0)632630204 E-mail: lorenz@ieee.org Check our Web page at http://conf.uha.fr/ICN04.html for the latest=20 information concerning the conference. Best papers will be forwarded for consideration in a special issue of a=20 journal. TUTORIALS AND WORKSHOPS Tutorials and workshops provide overviews of current high interest topics.= =20 Proposals for half of full day tutorials are due by September 10, 2003. INTERNATIONAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE H. Abouaissa (France) - University of Haute Alsace R. Addie (Australia) - University of Southern Queensland K. Begain (UK) - University of Bradford B. Bing (USA) - Georgia Institute of Technology A. Brandwajn (USA) - University of California Santa Cruz P. Chemouil (France) France Telecom R&D J.P. Coudreuse (France) - Mitsubishi M. Devetsikiotis (USA) - North Carolina State University S. Fdida (France) - LIP6 N. Fonseca (Brazil) - University of Campinas E. Fulp (USA) - Wake Forest University B. Gavish (USA) - Vanderbilt University H. Guyennet (France) - University of Franche-Comte Z. Hulicki (Poland) - University of Cracow R. Israel (France) - IEEE A. Jajszczyk (Poland) - University of Mining & Metallurgy A. Jamalipour (Australia) - University of Sydney S. Jiang (Singapore) - National University of Singapore S. Karnouskos (Germany) - GMD FOKUS G. Kesidis (USA) Pennsylvania State University D. Khotimsky (USA) - Lucent Bell Labs D. Kofman (France) - ENST Paris S. Kota (USA) - Lockeed Martin D. Kouvatsos (UK) - University of Bradford S. Kumar (USA) - Ericsson G.S. Kuo (Taiwan) - National Central University F. Le Faucheur (France) - Cisco M. Lee (Korea) - Dongshin University P. Lorenz (France) - University of Haute Alsace Z. Mammeri (France) - University of Toulouse N. Mastorakis (Greece) - Military Institutions of University Education H. Mouftah (Canada) - Queen's University G. Omidyar (USA) - Computer Sciences Corp. M. Potts (Switzerland) - Martel G. Pujolle (France) - University of Paris 6 S. Rao (Switzerland) - Ascom A. Reid (UK) - British Telecom S. Ritzenthaler (France) - Alcatel P. Rolin (France) France Telecom R&D D. Sadok (Brazil) - Federal University of Pernambuco R. Saracco (Italy) - CSELT H. Tobiet (France) - NMG V.A. Villagra (Spain) - University of Madrid E. Vazquez Gallo (Spain) - University of Madrid O. Yang (Canada) - University of Ottawa IMPORTANT DATES Extended papers deadline September 10, 2003 Authors Notification: October 10, 2003 Camera ready, full papers due: November 10, 2003 --=====================_114627445==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (* Our apologies if you receive this multiple times* )

CALL FOR PAPERS
3rd International Conference on Networking (ICN'04)
March 1-4, 2004  Pointe-=E0-Pitre,
Guadeloupe, French Caribbean

http://conf.uha.fr/ICN04.html


GENERAL INFORMATION
The 2004 International Conference on Networking (ICN'04) is sponsored by IEEE/Comsoc CSIM committee, IEEE/Computer and by IEE. ICN'04 is organized by academic, research and industrial societies will be held from Monday March 1, 2004 to Thursday March 4, 2004.
In order to encourage closer interaction between academic and industrial networking research communities, we solicit both academic research papers and industrial contributions. The 3rd edition of ICN will be held in Pointe-=E0-Pitre, Guadeloupe. ICN 2004 will offer tutorials, plenary sessions, poster sessions, panels and exhibition opportunities.

TOPICS OF SPECIAL INTEREST
Topics of interest include, but are not limited to the following:

Communications switching and routing
Communications modelling
Communications security
Computer communications
Multimedia and multicast communications
Next Generation Network
Network Management and control
Quality of Service
Wireless Communications (Satellite, WLL, 4G)
Voice over IP
Network, control and service architectures
Network signalling
Optical networking
Distributed communications
Traffic engineering
Telecommunication networks architectures
Performance evaluation, simulation
Mobile networking and systems
Applications and case studies
Protocol design and evaluation
MPLS, GMPLS

These topics can be discussed in term of concepts, state of the art, standards, implementations, running experiments and applications.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR AUTHORS
Mail four papers OR E-mail preferably in PDF format your original paper (6 or 8 pages). All the manuscripts must be written in English. The top of the first page of each paper should include the title of the paper, authors' name, position, address, telephone and fax numbers, e-mail of the author responsible for correspondence and a list of four keywords. The deadline for submission of all extended papers is September 10, 2003 with notification of acceptance by October 10, 2003. Submission of camera-ready paper is by November 10, 2003.
Authors of accepted papers will be invited to submit full-length manuscripts for inclusion in the proceedings with ISBN.
All hard copies papers should be sent to the following address:
Pascal LORENZ
University of Haute Alsace
34 rue du Grillenbreit
68008 Colmar, France
Phone: 33 (0)389202366 Fax: 33 (0)389202359 Mobile: 33 (0)632630204
E-mail: lorenz@ieee.org
Check our Web page at http://conf.uha.fr/ICN04.html for the latest information concerning the conference.
Best papers will be forwarded for consideration in a special issue of a= journal. 

TUTORIALS AND WORKSHOPS
Tutorials and workshops provide overviews of current high interest topics.= Proposals for half of full day tutorials are due by September 10, 2003.=

INTERNATIONAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
H. Abouaissa (France) - University of Haute Alsace
R. Addie (Australia) - University of Southern Queensland
K. Begain (UK) - University of Bradford
B. Bing (USA) - Georgia Institute of Technology
A. Brandwajn (USA) - University of California Santa Cruz
P. Chemouil (France)  France Telecom R&D
J.P. Coudreuse (France) - Mitsubishi
M. Devetsikiotis (USA) - North Carolina State University
S. Fdida (France) - LIP6
N. Fonseca (Brazil) - University of Campinas
E. Fulp (USA) - Wake Forest University
B. Gavish (USA) - Vanderbilt University
H. Guyennet (France) - University of Franche-Comte
Z. Hulicki (Poland) - University of Cracow
R. Israel (France) - IEEE
A. Jajszczyk (Poland) - University of Mining & Metallurgy
A. Jamalipour (Australia) - University of Sydney
S. Jiang (Singapore) - National University of Singapore
S. Karnouskos (Germany) - GMD FOKUS
G. Kesidis (USA)  Pennsylvania State University
D. Khotimsky (USA) - Lucent Bell Labs
D. Kofman (France) - ENST Paris
S. Kota (USA) - Lockeed Martin
D. Kouvatsos (UK) - University of Bradford
S. Kumar (USA) - Ericsson
G.S. Kuo (Taiwan) - National Central University
F. Le Faucheur (France) - Cisco
M. Lee (Korea) - Dongshin University
P. Lorenz (France) - University of Haute Alsace
Z. Mammeri (France) - University of Toulouse
N. Mastorakis (Greece) - Military Institutions of University Education
H. Mouftah (Canada) - Queen's University
G. Omidyar (USA) - Computer Sciences Corp.
M. Potts (Switzerland) - Martel
G. Pujolle (France) - University of Paris 6
S. Rao (Switzerland) - Ascom
A. Reid (UK) - British Telecom
S. Ritzenthaler (France) - Alcatel
P. Rolin (France)  France Telecom R&D
D. Sadok (Brazil) - Federal University of Pernambuco
R. Saracco (Italy) - CSELT
H. Tobiet (France) - NMG
V.A. Villagra (Spain) - University of Madrid
E. Vazquez Gallo (Spain) - University of Madrid
O. Yang (Canada) - University of Ottawa

IMPORTANT DATES
Extended papers= deadline                September 10,= 2003
Authors= Notification:      &nbs= p;          = ;  October 10, 2003
Camera ready, full papers due:=          = ;November 10, 2003


--=====================_114627445==_.ALT-- From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 21 08:24:22 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16570 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 08:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4LBp8N10959 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:51:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4LBp8B10956 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:51:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16564 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 08:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ISc2-0005M2-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 08:22:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ISc1-0005Lz-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 08:22:29 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4LBoSB10859; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:50:28 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4LBk6B10617 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:46:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16377 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 08:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ISXA-0005Ic-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 08:17:28 -0400 Received: from mailsrv.psl.com.sg ([202.14.153.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ISX8-0005II-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 08:17:27 -0400 Received: from beethoven.psl.com.sg (beethoven.psl.com.sg [10.81.113.99]) by mailsrv.psl.com.sg (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h4LCB1i09181; Wed, 21 May 2003 20:11:01 +0800 (SGT) Received: by beethoven.psl.com.sg (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EE69110E95DA; Wed, 21 May 2003 20:20:25 +0800 (SGT) Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming From: Chan-Wah Ng To: Pascal "Thubert (pthubert)" Cc: Julien Charbon , IETF NEMO WG In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Panasonic Singapore Laboratories Message-Id: <1053519625.2321.66.camel@beethoven> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4- Date: 21 May 2003 20:20:25 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 2003-05-20 at 18:32, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > > > > I agree it is not important how many egress interfaces a > > mobile router has. That's not what 'w' is. 'w' is used to > > differentiate between whether there is a single mobile router > > or multiple mobile routers in the mobile network. > > > > > > > > In other words it seems to me that the w is not too > > useful... For me, > > > the problems are still the 4 I listed before. If I'm missing > > > something, sorry about that :) > > > > You may have misunderstood 'w'. See if you still think there > > is no difference whether there is a single MR or there is multiple MR. > > > > I call an x case what Julien refers to as w=0 (as opposed as you). And I > call a y case what both of you call w=1. > Quoting " > And I obtain (w, x, y) : > > with > > w: 0: A Mobile Router have more than one Global IPv6 Address. > OR a Mobile Router have more than one Interface. > 1: There is more then one Egress Mobile Router. > > x: 0: There is single HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. > 1: There is muliple HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. > > y: 0: A single Prefix is announced by Egress Router(s). > 1: Muliple Prefix are announced by Egress Router(s). > " > > I think Julien is better with his w=0, if he removes "OR a Mobile > Router have more than one Interface". But then the problems for w=0 and > w=1 are not exclusive (as I'll detail further, read on). So w is just > misleading. I think it brings nothing and should be dropped. > Sorry. Can't see any difference between so-called "Julien's definition" and "my definition". I always thought between Julien and me are in sync. And no, I did not see where you give explanations of why 'w' should be dropped. -- 8= 8< 8= -- some portions snipped -- 8< 8= 8< -- > > In trying to merge our classifications, I way I see it is this: > > > > Tarzan is (w=0,x=0,y=*) > > JetSet is (w=0,x=1,y=*) > > Shinkansen is (w=1,x=*,y=0) > > Doublebed is (w=1,x=*,y=1) > > > > No. According to Julien's definition: > > Tarzan is (w=0,x=0) whether there's a y at all does not > change the problem addressed here > JetSet is (w=0,x=1) > Shinkansen is (w=1,y=0) > Doublebed is (w=1,y=1) > I think that's where we differs in terminologies. I guess a taxonomy should cover everything. What I hope to do is that every single situation where nemo is multihomed will fall into one of the (w=?,x=?,y=?) category. That's why I don't see any difference between saying (w=0,x=0) and (w=0,x=0,y=*). On that same note, are you claiming that there is no multihomed network that your classification do not cover? -- 8= 8< 8= -- some portions snipped -- 8< 8= 8< -- > > > please enumarate your 8 possibilities > and tell me the 8 specific problems you have to solve, the way I just > expressed the 4 that I understand... Maybe it will help. I think you are > still configuration minded at this point... There are many many of them, > but not as many problems, hopefully. I hope so too! Which is precisely why we chose to first classify all multihomed mobile network into some number of categories, and then identify which categories contains problem that need to be solved by NEMO WG. Some categories may contain similar problem, and solving one will solve some of the others... it doesn't matter right now. Okay, here are the 8 in (w,x,y) tuple: (these are written just off my mind, so pardon me if they appear to lack careful analysis) (0,0,0) = One MR, one HA, one prefix As far as I see it can either have more than one care-of-address addressed to one HoA (multiple interface sharing same HoA but different CoA), or it can have different CoA-HoA pairs. Either way, it should be a MIPv6 problem. (0,0,1) = One MR, one HA, multiple prefix. If the MR has only one HoA with multiple CoA and multiple subnet prefix, we need a way for HA to be able to register that the multiple prefixes are tied to that HoA. I guess it should be a NEMO problem. (0,1,0) = One MR, multiple HA, one prefix Can MR register the same HoA in two different HAs? If not, the problem is simply a HoA-CoA pair per HA. There is also the question of same prefix-careof in two different HA. Need to analyse further. (0,1,1) = one MR, multiple HA, multiple prefix largely similar to (0,1,0), but now you have additional prefix coming in. This may be easily solved if we demand that each prefix be taken care of by separate HA. (1,0,0) = multiple MR, one HA, one prefix. May not have any problem at all if the MRs are manually configured to announce same prefix. Prefix delegation is also possible since the MRs are handled by same HA. HA will see two HoA-CoA pair sharing taking care of the same subnet prefix. (1,0,1) = multiple MR, one HA, multiple prefix May not have any problem at all if each MR take care of separate prefix. (1,1,0) = multiple MR, multiple HA, one prefix Question of multiple HA handling the same prefix. Also question of how to do prefix delegation between two MRs with different HA. (1,1,1) = multiple MR, multiple HA, multiple prefix May not have any problem at all if each MR take care of separate prefix. Comments? (perhaps Julien would like to add more) /cwng From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 21 15:24:01 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA04729 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4LIotT08879 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:50:55 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4LIotB08876 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:50:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA04656 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IZA8-0001n1-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:22:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IZA7-0001mv-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:22:07 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4LIj5B08339; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:45:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4LIeCB08053 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:40:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA03407 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IYzl-0001VB-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:11:25 -0400 Received: from mailhost.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.12]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IYzj-0001Tc-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:11:23 -0400 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (darkstar.iprg.nokia.com [205.226.5.69]) by mailhost.iprg.nokia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3-GLGS) with ESMTP id MAA09017; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id h4LJC7R16484; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:12:07 -0700 X-mProtect: <200305211912> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (10.241.49.107, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdXOVCkv; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:12:05 PDT Message-ID: <3ECBCF83.9010809@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:12:03 -0700 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chan-Wah Ng CC: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , Julien Charbon , IETF NEMO WG Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming References: <1053519625.2321.66.camel@beethoven> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit can we stick to the following categories when we discuss multihoming on this list? half the time I find myself trying to figure out which multi-homing scenario is being referred to when I read a particular mail on the list. I find the following very clear. Vijay Chan-Wah Ng wrote: >> >> w: 0: A Mobile Router have more than one Global IPv6 Address. >> OR a Mobile Router have more than one Interface. >> 1: There is more then one Egress Mobile Router. >> >> x: 0: There is single HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. >> 1: There is muliple HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. >> >> y: 0: A single Prefix is announced by Egress Router(s). >> 1: Muliple Prefix are announced by Egress Router(s). > (0,0,0) = One MR, one HA, one prefix > As far as I see it can either have more than one care-of-address > addressed to one HoA (multiple interface sharing same HoA but different > CoA), or it can have different CoA-HoA pairs. Either way, it should be > a MIPv6 problem. > > (0,0,1) = One MR, one HA, multiple prefix. > If the MR has only one HoA with multiple CoA and multiple subnet prefix, > we need a way for HA to be able to register that the multiple prefixes > are tied to that HoA. I guess it should be a NEMO problem. > > (0,1,0) = One MR, multiple HA, one prefix > Can MR register the same HoA in two different HAs? If not, the problem > is simply a HoA-CoA pair per HA. There is also the question of same > prefix-careof in two different HA. Need to analyse further. > > (0,1,1) = one MR, multiple HA, multiple prefix > largely similar to (0,1,0), but now you have additional prefix coming > in. This may be easily solved if we demand that each prefix be taken > care of by separate HA. > > (1,0,0) = multiple MR, one HA, one prefix. > May not have any problem at all if the MRs are manually configured to > announce same prefix. Prefix delegation is also possible since the MRs > are handled by same HA. HA will see two HoA-CoA pair sharing taking > care of the same subnet prefix. > > (1,0,1) = multiple MR, one HA, multiple prefix > May not have any problem at all if each MR take care of separate prefix. > > (1,1,0) = multiple MR, multiple HA, one prefix > Question of multiple HA handling the same prefix. > Also question of how to do prefix delegation between two MRs with > different HA. > > (1,1,1) = multiple MR, multiple HA, multiple prefix > May not have any problem at all if each MR take care of separate prefix. From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 21 16:28:08 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07822 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 16:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4LJt4e14218 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:55:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4LJt4B14215 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:55:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07808 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 16:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IaAC-0002eN-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 16:26:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IaAB-0002eK-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 16:26:15 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4LJnJB13909; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:49:19 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4LJmNB13848 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 15:48:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07595 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 16:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Ia3j-0002b3-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 16:19:35 -0400 Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.189]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Ia3d-0002au-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 16:19:30 -0400 Received: from user-1121ent.dsl.mindspring.com ([66.32.186.253] helo=SGOSWAMIPCL) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Ia4t-0000Fc-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:20:47 -0700 From: "Subrata Goswami" To: "'IETF NEMO WG'" Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:18:14 -0700 Message-ID: <00b101c31fd6$1bb70ef0$0400a8c0@SGOSWAMIPCL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3ECBCF83.9010809@iprg.nokia.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-ELNK-Trace: 33bae71ce1aa67f5d780f4a490ca69564776905774d2ac4b6494d6d11de42eb176d3e1e09967c923350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I think the notation suggested by Chan-Wah Ng is very useful, although a little non-intuitive. Instead of using only 0/1 we should use -n to n for the 3 fields. Thus (1,1,1) signifies (One MR, one HA, one prefix) (0,0,0) signifies ( no MR, no HA, no prefix ) (l,m,n) signifies ( l MR, m =< HA , n =< prefix) (-1,-1,-1) signifies ( ?, ?, ?) Subrata > -----Original Message----- > From: nemo-admin@ietf.org [mailto:nemo-admin@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Vijay Devarapalli > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 12:12 PM > To: Chan-Wah Ng > Cc: Pascal Thubert (pthubert); Julien Charbon; IETF NEMO WG > Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming > > > can we stick to the following categories when we discuss > multihoming on this list? half the time I find myself trying > to figure out which multi-homing scenario is being referred > to when I read a particular mail on the list. > > I find the following very clear. > > Vijay > > Chan-Wah Ng wrote: > >> > >> w: 0: A Mobile Router have more than one Global IPv6 Address. > >> OR a Mobile Router have more than one Interface. > >> 1: There is more then one Egress Mobile Router. > >> > >> x: 0: There is single HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. > >> 1: There is muliple HA for CoAs of a same Prefix. > >> > >> y: 0: A single Prefix is announced by Egress Router(s). > >> 1: Muliple Prefix are announced by Egress Router(s). > > > (0,0,0) = One MR, one HA, one prefix > > As far as I see it can either have more than one care-of-address > > addressed to one HoA (multiple interface sharing same HoA but > > different CoA), or it can have different CoA-HoA pairs. > Either way, > > it should be a MIPv6 problem. > > > > (0,0,1) = One MR, one HA, multiple prefix. > > If the MR has only one HoA with multiple CoA and multiple subnet > > prefix, we need a way for HA to be able to register that > the multiple > > prefixes are tied to that HoA. I guess it should be a NEMO problem. > > > > (0,1,0) = One MR, multiple HA, one prefix > > Can MR register the same HoA in two different HAs? If not, the > > problem is simply a HoA-CoA pair per HA. There is also the > question > > of same prefix-careof in two different HA. Need to analyse further. > > > > (0,1,1) = one MR, multiple HA, multiple prefix > > largely similar to (0,1,0), but now you have additional > prefix coming > > in. This may be easily solved if we demand that each > prefix be taken > > care of by separate HA. > > > > (1,0,0) = multiple MR, one HA, one prefix. > > May not have any problem at all if the MRs are manually > configured to > > announce same prefix. Prefix delegation is also possible since the > > MRs are handled by same HA. HA will see two HoA-CoA pair sharing > > taking care of the same subnet prefix. > > > > (1,0,1) = multiple MR, one HA, multiple prefix > > May not have any problem at all if each MR take care of separate > > prefix. > > > > (1,1,0) = multiple MR, multiple HA, one prefix > > Question of multiple HA handling the same prefix. > > Also question of how to do prefix delegation between two MRs with > > different HA. > > > > (1,1,1) = multiple MR, multiple HA, multiple prefix > > May not have any problem at all if each MR take care of separate > > prefix. > > From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu May 22 04:37:45 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA04651 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:37:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4M84uo11963 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:04:56 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M84uB11960 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:04:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA04630 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IlYG-0006eW-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:35:52 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IlYG-0006eS-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:35:52 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M84PB11941; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:04:25 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M83IB11853 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:03:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA04578 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IlWg-0006dx-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:34:14 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IlWf-0006do-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:34:13 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 May 2003 10:34:30 +0100 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4M8X8TP014222; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:33:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 22 May 2003 10:35:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:35:03 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Thread-Index: AcMfkwvcGyTn7Oc8Q0aNH8Vd6Yp43QApF2wQ From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Chan-Wah Ng" Cc: "Julien Charbon" , "IETF NEMO WG" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2003 08:35:04.0507 (UTC) FILETIME=[0AEF88B0:01C3203D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4M83IB11854 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Chan-Wah. I think we're not in sync yet. I did not ask you to describe configs, but what problems need to be solved. I gave my view as example of what I asked from you for the 4 problems that I see. If you see other problems to be solved please detail them that way. Otherwise we're in a loop, and I'll quit. This is my last attempt to make you understand what I mean. Otherwise I guess it'll show up later. > Okay, here are the 8 in (w,x,y) tuple: (these are written just off my > mind, so pardon me if they appear to lack careful analysis) > > (0,0,0) = One MR, one HA, one prefix > As far as I see it can either have more than one care-of-address > addressed to one HoA (multiple interface sharing same HoA but different > CoA), or it can have different CoA-HoA pairs. Either way, it should be > a MIPv6 problem. > Right. It must be clear that this case is about multiple CareOfs registered in parallel as opposed to multiple interfaces active in parallel. This case is the Tarzan problem of load balancing, fast handoff and so on as I described earlier. > (0,0,1) = One MR, one HA, multiple prefix. > If the MR has only one HoA with multiple CoA and multiple subnet prefix, > we need a way for HA to be able to register that the multiple prefixes > are tied to that HoA. I guess it should be a NEMO problem. > What is the new problem? This is several times the (0,0,0) problem. The only thing to discuss is if we use a single or multiple binding message. But there's no design problem. > (0,1,0) = One MR, multiple HA, one prefix > Can MR register the same HoA in two different HAs? If not, the problem > is simply a HoA-CoA pair per HA. There is also the question of same > prefix-careof in two different HA. Need to analyse further. > We are multihoming the prefix. Who cares if the MR uses a single or multiple home addresses or CareOfs. The key is to allow registering the same mobile prefix to several HAs. The problem I see is the JetSet problem as I detailed before, which has to do with optimized routing. Also, if the HAs are hops away, we'll need to have the L3 HA-HA coordination protocol by then, but that much is not a multihoming issue per se, it has more to do with whether we want a physical home net or not). > (0,1,1) = one MR, multiple HA, multiple prefix > largely similar to (0,1,0), but now you have additional prefix coming > in. This may be easily solved if we demand that each prefix be taken > care of by separate HA. > What is the new problem? This is several times the (0,1,0) problem. The only thing to discuss is if we use a single or multiple binding messages. But there's no design problem. Did I write this before? > (1,0,0) = multiple MR, one HA, one prefix. > May not have any problem at all if the MRs are manually configured to > announce same prefix. Prefix delegation is also possible since the MRs > are handled by same HA. HA will see two HoA-CoA pair sharing taking > care of the same subnet prefix. > This is the Shinkansen problem I explained before. Mostly deals with balancing the flows between the 2 MRHA tunnels when both are active, and with redirecting all the traffic to the active one if only one is active. I agree that on top of that, the prefix delegation should know that the 2 MRs are paired and affect the same prefix to both, but this seems to be a config issue only. Note that the 2 MRs do not have to be both registered at a given point of time (one may be hot stand by). > (1,0,1) = multiple MR, one HA, multiple prefix > May not have any problem at all if each MR take care of separate prefix. > This is the double Bed problem if the different MRs have different prefix. I tried to show that this relates to the MR not being a stub. So I suggested to rule that out quickly. > (1,1,0) = multiple MR, multiple HA, one prefix > Question of multiple HA handling the same prefix. > Also question of how to do prefix delegation between two MRs with > different HA. > What is the new problem? You just say it yourself, this is the (1,0,1) problem coupled with the (0,1,0) problem. > (1,1,1) = multiple MR, multiple HA, multiple prefix > May not have any problem at all if each MR take care of separate prefix. > What is the new problem? This is the (1,0,1) problem coupled with the (0,1,0) problem. Pascal From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu May 22 04:51:44 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA04926 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4M8IuM13329 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:18:56 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M8IuB13326 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:18:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA04915 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Illn-0006j1-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:49:51 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Illn-0006iy-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:49:51 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M8I8B13299; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:18:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M8HcB13257 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:17:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA04882 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IlkY-0006iP-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:48:34 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IlkX-0006i5-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:48:33 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 May 2003 10:48:49 +0100 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4M8lRKE016784; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:47:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 22 May 2003 10:49:20 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:49:20 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Thread-Index: AcMf7e+3Rp2quAcdRky6eznzhkqY4QATy1RA From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Vijay Devarapalli" , "Chan-Wah Ng" Cc: "Julien Charbon" , "IETF NEMO WG" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2003 08:49:20.0591 (UTC) FILETIME=[093395F0:01C3203F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4M8HcB13258 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Vijay: Please look again. The main trouble is that w=0 and w=1 are not orthogonal. You can have several MRs and only one registers (hot standby). And you can have several registrations for the same prefix by a single MR. If we really want to express that as Boolean, we must introduce a v as well. Like: v: 0: There is only one registration for a given mobile prefix (like MIP today for a HoA) 1: There can be multiple registrations in parallel for a given mobile prefix w: 0: There is a single Egress Mobile Router 1: There is more then one Egress Mobile Router. And keep the same as it was. My point is then that we have multihoming if v or w. From there, v=1 can be subdivided in 2 problems that I called x=0 and x=1 And w=1 can be subdivided in 2 problems that I called y=0 and y=1 And obviously you can have v=1 and w=1. After all discussion with Chan-Wah's and Julien, the best definition is IMHO: x: 0: There is single HA for multiple registration of a same Prefix. 1: There is multiple HA for multiple registration of a same Prefix. y: 0: A single Prefix is announced by Egress Routers. 1: Multiple Prefix are announced by Egress Routers. What do you think? Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Vijay Devarapalli [mailto:vijayd@iprg.nokia.com] > Sent: mercredi 21 mai 2003 21:12 > To: Chan-Wah Ng > Cc: Pascal Thubert (pthubert); Julien Charbon; IETF NEMO WG > Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming > > can we stick to the following categories when we discuss > multihoming on this list? half the time I find myself trying > to figure out which multi-homing scenario is being referred > to when I read a particular mail on the list. > > I find the following very clear. > > Vijay > > Chan-Wah Ng wrote: > >> > >> w: 0: A Mobile Router have more than one Global IPv6 Address. > >> OR a Mobile Router have more than one Interface. > >> 1: There is more then one Egress Mobile Router. > >> > > > (0,0,0) = One MR, one HA, one prefix > > As far as I see it can either have more than one care-of-address > > addressed to one HoA (multiple interface sharing same HoA but different > > CoA), or it can have different CoA-HoA pairs. Either way, it should be > > a MIPv6 problem. > > > > (0,0,1) = One MR, one HA, multiple prefix. > > If the MR has only one HoA with multiple CoA and multiple subnet prefix, > > we need a way for HA to be able to register that the multiple prefixes > > are tied to that HoA. I guess it should be a NEMO problem. > > > > (0,1,0) = One MR, multiple HA, one prefix > > Can MR register the same HoA in two different HAs? If not, the problem > > is simply a HoA-CoA pair per HA. There is also the question of same > > prefix-careof in two different HA. Need to analyse further. > > > > (0,1,1) = one MR, multiple HA, multiple prefix > > largely similar to (0,1,0), but now you have additional prefix coming > > in. This may be easily solved if we demand that each prefix be taken > > care of by separate HA. > > > > (1,0,0) = multiple MR, one HA, one prefix. > > May not have any problem at all if the MRs are manually configured to > > announce same prefix. Prefix delegation is also possible since the MRs > > are handled by same HA. HA will see two HoA-CoA pair sharing taking > > care of the same subnet prefix. > > > > (1,0,1) = multiple MR, one HA, multiple prefix > > May not have any problem at all if each MR take care of separate prefix. > > > > (1,1,0) = multiple MR, multiple HA, one prefix > > Question of multiple HA handling the same prefix. > > Also question of how to do prefix delegation between two MRs with > > different HA. > > > > (1,1,1) = multiple MR, multiple HA, multiple prefix > > May not have any problem at all if each MR take care of separate prefix. From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu May 22 05:22:23 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05648 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4M8naK15835 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:49:36 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M8nZB15832 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:49:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05645 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ImFT-0006x3-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:20:31 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ImFS-0006x0-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:20:30 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M8n5B15804; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:49:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M8mcB15767 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:48:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05614 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ImEX-0006wM-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:19:34 -0400 Received: from mailsrv.psl.com.sg ([202.14.153.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ImEV-0006vs-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:19:32 -0400 Received: from beethoven.psl.com.sg (beethoven.psl.com.sg [10.81.113.99]) by mailsrv.psl.com.sg (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h4M9Cqi29926; Thu, 22 May 2003 17:12:52 +0800 (SGT) Received: by beethoven.psl.com.sg (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 569D210E95DA; Thu, 22 May 2003 17:22:14 +0800 (SGT) Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming From: Chan-Wah Ng To: Pascal "Thubert (pthubert)" Cc: Vijay Devarapalli , Julien Charbon , IETF NEMO WG In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Panasonic Singapore Laboratories Message-Id: <1053595333.1780.45.camel@beethoven> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4- Date: 22 May 2003 17:22:14 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pascal, Vijay, Julien On Thu, 2003-05-22 at 16:49, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Hi Vijay: > > Please look again. > > The main trouble is that w=0 and w=1 are not orthogonal. You can have > several MRs and only one registers (hot standby). Nope. If only one MR is active at any one time, and that MR only register one binding, it is not a multihoming scenario, and we do not classify non-multihoming scenario. Correct me if I am wrong, I think you miss the most important point about our taxonomy: we classify *multihoming* NEMO. so the correct interpretation of 'w' is: w=0: The NEMO has only one active egress MR with multiple care-ofs w=1: the NEMO has multiple active egress MR. /cwng > And you can have > several registrations for the same prefix by a single MR. If we really > want to express that as Boolean, we must introduce a v as well. Like: > > v: 0: There is only one registration for a given mobile prefix (like MIP > today for a HoA) > 1: There can be multiple registrations in parallel for a given mobile > prefix > > w: 0: There is a single Egress Mobile Router > 1: There is more then one Egress Mobile Router. > > And keep the same as it was. My point is then that we have multihoming > if v or w. > > >From there, v=1 can be subdivided in 2 problems that I called x=0 and > x=1 > And w=1 can be subdivided in 2 problems that I called y=0 and y=1 > And obviously you can have v=1 and w=1. > > After all discussion with Chan-Wah's and Julien, the best definition is > IMHO: > > x: 0: There is single HA for multiple registration of a same Prefix. > 1: There is multiple HA for multiple registration of a same Prefix. > > y: 0: A single Prefix is announced by Egress Routers. > 1: Multiple Prefix are announced by Egress Routers. > > > What do you think? > > Pascal From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu May 22 05:43:01 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA06352 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4M9AEk18075 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:10:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M9AEB18072 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:10:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA06340 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ImZR-0007Bw-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:41:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ImZQ-0007Bt-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:41:08 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M99bB17998; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:09:37 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4M98MB17920 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:08:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA06262 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ImXd-0007AK-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:39:17 -0400 Received: from mailsrv.psl.com.sg ([202.14.153.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ImXX-00079s-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:39:12 -0400 Received: from beethoven.psl.com.sg (beethoven.psl.com.sg [10.81.113.99]) by mailsrv.psl.com.sg (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h4M9Wwi00608; Thu, 22 May 2003 17:32:58 +0800 (SGT) Received: by beethoven.psl.com.sg (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 06AAA10E95DA; Thu, 22 May 2003 17:42:20 +0800 (SGT) Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming From: Chan-Wah Ng To: Pascal "Thubert (pthubert)" Cc: Julien Charbon , IETF NEMO WG In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Panasonic Singapore Laboratories Message-Id: <1053596539.1780.62.camel@beethoven> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4- Date: 22 May 2003 17:42:19 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pascal, Julien, On Thu, 2003-05-22 at 16:35, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Hi Chan-Wah. > > I think we're not in sync yet. I did not ask you to describe configs, > but what problems need to be solved. I gave my view as example of what I > asked from you for the 4 problems that I see. If you see other problems > to be solved please detail them that way. Otherwise we're in a loop, and > I'll quit. This is my last attempt to make you understand what I mean. > Otherwise I guess it'll show up later. > I fully understand what you want, but you seem not to understand my standpoint. You want to see the specific problems of multhomed NEMO. You came up with 4. Instead of coming to the quick conclusion as you have, we decided to start by classifying NEMO into different configurations. From these configurations, we then identify the problems. As I have already stated in previous mails, it may well be among the 8 configurations, we identify the same 4 problems as you did. But only through the exercise of looking into each configuration can we be sure that these are the only 4 and no more. I am now in the process of identifying individual problems in each configuration, and will release the I-Draft once that is done. So please be patient for this couple of days. In that aspect, your comments on the 8 configurations are useful, and I thank you for that. /cwng From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu May 22 07:22:04 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA08882 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4MAnHu26187 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 06:49:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4MAnGB26183 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 06:49:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA08875 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Io7F-0000Av-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:20:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Io7F-0000As-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:20:09 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4MAmdB26140; Thu, 22 May 2003 06:48:39 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4MAl0B26100 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 06:47:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA08847 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:19:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Io53-0000AG-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:17:53 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Io52-0000A7-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:17:52 -0400 Received: from juryan (dhcp-243-079.mag.keio.ac.jp [133.27.243.79]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id D7B015D0D3; Thu, 22 May 2003 20:18:42 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 20:18:42 +0900 From: Julien Charbon To: nemo@ietf.org Cc: Pascal Thubert , Chan-Wah Ng , Thierry Ernst Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Message-Id: <20030522201842.66a411c1.julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pascal, Hi all, On Mon, 19 May 2003 14:14:01 +0100 "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" wrote: > I'm back from vacations :) I hope you past good vacation, and your are always motivate to continue the discussion in the multi-homing domain. > In other words it seems to me that the w is not too useful... For me, > the problems are still the 4 I listed before. If I'm missing something, > sorry about that :) It's nothing, the more there are different points of view the more the good, or the best solution can be found. And in general this solution take ideas from all of the other. > Let me describe further the problems I see, x cases, Tarzan and JetSet > and y cases, Shinkansen and doublebed: > > Tarzan: One MR building and registering (to same HA) several CareOf in > order to maintain connectivity while moving is a MH(x=0) Excuse-me that is MH? [Just for my information] > The Tarzan problem is the introduction of multiple CareOfs registered in > parallel. This breaks the MIP paradigm. Whether they are on a single or > multiple interfaces of the MR may not ne important, but I expect that > they'll be on different access routers. Anyway, this introduces the load > balancing / high availability problem in both directions. I understand > that FMIP has already studied this some. Maybe we can start from there. Let's go for comments: The case: _____ _ p _ | | |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| |-| _ _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| |_|-| | |-|_|-| | MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA I think it a very classic multi-interface problem. Solution requirements: If you want to use the two interfaces at the same time: o Allow several tunnels between a MR and a HA. o Allow binding of Multiple CoAs for the same MN-Prefix. o Identify the CoAs in the Prefix-BU. Explanations for this requirement: At a time on the HA you have: HA Nemo Binding cache: Prefix1/length -> CoA1. Prefix1/length -> CoA2. And then you receive a Prefix-BU from the same MR: Prefix1/length -> CoA3. Which CoA has changed the CoA1 or the CoA2 ? If you use just one interface a the same time: o Nothing, just switch the interface when one goes down. But take care in this case the mobile router it's not a Multihomed Mobile Router with this behavior according to: ,----[ draft-ernst-nemo-terminology-01.txt ] | Multihomed Mobile Router | | A MR is multihomed when it has simultaneously more than one | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | active connection to the Internet, that is when it is either: | | [...] | `---- And so remember the R.12 requirements: ,----[ draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt ] | R12: The solution MUST function for multihomed MR [...] `---- Configuration good for: o Keep Connectivity Transparently Reasons: o Don't not change anything for the MNNs. o Load-Balancing & Policy Outbound traffic: o The MR choose between the two CoAs. Inbound traffic: o The HA choose between the two MR's CoAs. So the Prefix-BU should carry some preference for each CoA. Clear case for me and you. That's fine. > JetSet: one MR that registers its prefix to Paris and New York at the > same time in order to optimize routing is a MH(x=1) > > The JetSet is the case where the multiple CareOfs are not registered to > the same HA. The HAs may be far away from each other. The JetSet problem > is the collaboration of the HAs in order to accept multiple > registrations, and the selection by the MR of the best via-HA to the > correspondent. Correlated problem is to get the packets onto the active > tuunels on the HA side. This is the problem for which I pointed out that > a dynamic routing over the MRHA is needed, including for me whatever > causes the MNP prefix to be injected in the Home AS routing protocol > while the MR is registered. The case: AR HA2 _ | |-|_|-| _ _____ | |-|_| _ p _ | |-| |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| | _ |-|_|-| |_____|-| _ |_|-| | | _ |-|_| |-|_|-| | MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA1 Solution requirements: o Maybe nothing. Configuration used for: o HA redundancy o Kind of Routing Optimization o Load-Balancing & Policy Outbound traffic: o The MR choose between the two HAs. [priority] Inbound traffic: o Prefix-BU should carry some priority in the Prefix-BU for each HA, and thus the HAs announce the prefix in IGP with metric depending on this priority. > Shinkansen: A train with one prefix, one careof per MR and 2 MRs, which > is a MH(y=0). > > Shinkansen is about the high availability of a prefix being registered > by 2 different MRs. The problem is to make that transparent to the MNNs, > so that if the MRHA tunnel of one MR fails, the MNNs traffic move to the > other MR. Note that if we have both routers registering the same prefix > at the same time, this is an x case too. But the second MR can be in hot > standby, in which case this is not a x case. The case: MR2 p <-_ | _ |-|_|-| _____ |_|-| |-| | _ | | |-| _ |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| |-|_|-| |-|_|-| <- | | p MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA Solution requirements: o Allow binding of Multiple CoAs for the same MN-Prefix. Configuration used for: o Keep Connectivity Transparently Reasons: o The Default Router Selection [RFC 2461, Section 6.3.6] ]is implemented in all IPv6 Node. So if a router is crunched by godzilla the MNNs take the other transparently. o Router redundancy o Load-Balancing & Policy Outbound traffic: I think a kind of good solution is something like that: ,----[ draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt ] | IPng Working Group R. Draves | Internet Draft Microsoft Research | Document: draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt R. Hinden | Nokia | June 10, 2002 | | Default Router Preferences, More-Specific Routes, and Load Sharing `---- [http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt] Inbound traffic: o The HA choose between the two MR CoA's. So the Prefix-BU should carry some preference for each CoA. > doubleBed: 2 MRs happening to share the same wireless media for their > mobile prefix (Erik's problem) is a MH(y=1) > > Say MR1 has prefix P1 and HA1, and that MR2 has P2 via HA2. doubleBed > problem is basically to allow traffic with a careOf in P2 to flow via > MR1. This requires MR1 to accept P2 in its ingress filtering selection. > This also requires, if MR2 is down, the HA1 sends traffic for P2 over > MRHA1. In other words, MR1 has and advertises P2. Julien's case with an > intermediate router is a good one. For me, this is a case where the MN > is not a stub anymore, and should be ruled out of scope real quick. The case: MR2 AR HA2 p2 _ | <-_ | |-|_|-| _ _ |-|_|-| _____ | |-|_| [Manage p2 only] |_|-| |-| |-| _ | | | |_|-| _ |-|_____|-| _ |-|_|-| | _ |-|_| [Manage p1 only] <- | |-|_|-| p1 | MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA1 Solution requirements: o Manage the Ingress Filtering. [Maybe difficult or too high requirement]. Configuration imposed by: o "2 MRs happening to share the same wireless media for their mobile prefix". These case is maybe out of scope of Nemo. [See my write below]. I prefer this case which is Doublebed too: MR2 p2 <-_ | _ |-|_|-| _____ |_|-| |-| | _ | | |-| _ |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| |-|_|-| |-|_|-| <- | | p1 MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA And in these case: Configuration used for: o Keep Connectivity Transparently o Router redundancy o Load-Balancing & Policy Outbound traffic: I think a kind of good solution is something like [draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt] as I write above. Inbound traffic: o The HA choose between the two MR CoA's. So the Prefix-BU should carry some preference for each CoA. > If you see other problems to be solved please update this discussion. I > could also help on the draft if you wish... Examples: _____ _ p1,p2 _ | | |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| |-| _ _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| [Manage p1 & p2] |_|-| | |-|_|-| | MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA and MR2 AR HA2 p2 _ | <-_ | |-|_|-| _ _ |-|_|-| _____ | |-|_| [Manage p2 only] |_|-| |-| |-| _ | | | |_|-| _ |-|_____|-| _ |-|_|-| | _ |-|_| [Manage p1 only] <- | |-|_|-| p1 | MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA1 Theses cases are Tarzan [Single HA for CoAs of a same Mobile Network Prefix], and DoubleBed [Multiple prefixes advertised to the MNNs]. In the first case: All work like for a simple Tarzan case, so you provide "Keep Connectivity Transparently" easily. No problem with the doublebed style. [No Ingress Filtering Rule to change] In the second case: [I hope I'll be clear as enough] [I know you [Pascal] understand this problem is just a reminder] What's wrong with "Keep Connectivity Transparently": The MRs announce two different Mobile Network Prefixes. So the MNNs have two global source addresses. The MNNs operates a Source Address Selection [RFC 3484, section 5]. And: Example of lost connection: A MNN select for a connection the source address prefixed by p1. And after a moment the connection to the HA1 is lost. [Godzilla again]. Thus the connection is lost. [You can't send the p1 prefixed packets towards the HA2 because the Ingress Filtering]. But new connection are possible using the other source addresses. The problem is the same for a fixed network. Solutions: [Not a real solution] o Do not put different HAs who manage different Network Prefixes for a same Mobile Network in different domains. o [draft-ng-nemo-multihoming-issues-00, section 3.2.2. Using Alternate Mobile Router] o Modify the Ingress filtering rules. Thus maybe [sometime] make difference between one router with multiple CoAs and multiple mobile router can be useful. But I have write before you provide a good solution, and these examples are very specific. Maybe another example more simple: In this case: [Tarzan] _____ _ p _ | | |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| |-| _ _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| |_|-| | |-|_|-| | MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA Load-Balancing for Inbound traffic "easy" to manage. In this case: [Tarzan too] MR2 p <-_ | _ |-|_|-| _____ |_|-| |-| | _ | | |-| _ |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| |-|_|-| |-|_|-| <- | | p MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA Load-Balancing for Inbound traffic "hard" to manage. So the difference are maybe not so visible in the solution level, but much more in the deployment / configuration level. Best regard for the people who read the entire mail. -- Julien From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu May 22 08:18:53 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10826 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4MBk8231603 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:46:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4MBk7B31600 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:46:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10804 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Ip0F-0000ow-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:16:59 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Ip0E-0000ot-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:16:58 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4MBjMB31530; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:45:22 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4MBiRB31437 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:44:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10716 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Ioyc-0000nd-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:15:18 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Ioyb-0000mn-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:15:17 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 May 2003 14:14:54 +0100 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4MCDXBa024745; Thu, 22 May 2003 14:13:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 22 May 2003 14:15:28 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:15:28 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Thread-Index: AcMgU/AVlxYO0ozISIaM30et05ZjUAAAFSpw From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Julien Charbon" , Cc: "Chan-Wah Ng" , "Thierry Ernst" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2003 12:15:28.0732 (UTC) FILETIME=[D53021C0:01C3205B] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4MBiRB31438 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Julien Note that I tweaked my language from 'multiple careOf' to 'multiple registrations' for the same prefix. For instance it may happen that a MR registers a same prefix with the same CareOf to 2 different HAs. It seems to me that the key is that a registration for a prefix has a unique ID as in Ryuji's draft. > > > > Tarzan: One MR building and registering (to same HA) several CareOf in > > order to maintain connectivity while moving is a MH(x=0) > > Excuse-me that is MH? [Just for my information] Sorry! MultiHoming > > > The Tarzan problem is the introduction of multiple CareOfs registered in > > parallel. This breaks the MIP paradigm. Whether they are on a single or > > multiple interfaces of the MR may not ne important, but I expect that > > they'll be on different access routers. Anyway, this introduces the load > > balancing / high availability problem in both directions. I understand > > that FMIP has already studied this some. Maybe we can start from there. > > Let's go for comments: > > The case: > > _____ > _ p _ | | > |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > | > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > I think it a very classic multi-interface problem. > > Solution requirements: > > If you want to use the two interfaces at the same time: > > o Allow several tunnels between a MR and a HA. > o Allow binding of Multiple CoAs for the same MN-Prefix. > o Identify the CoAs in the Prefix-BU. > Explanations for this requirement: > > At a time on the HA you have: > > HA Nemo Binding cache: > Prefix1/length -> CoA1. > Prefix1/length -> CoA2. > > And then you receive a Prefix-BU from the same MR: > Prefix1/length -> CoA3. > > Which CoA has changed the CoA1 or the CoA2 ? > > If you use just one interface a the same time: > > o Nothing, just switch the interface when one goes down. > > But take care in this case the mobile router it's not a > Multihomed Mobile Router with this behavior according to: > > ,----[ draft-ernst-nemo-terminology-01.txt ] > | Multihomed Mobile Router > | > | A MR is multihomed when it has simultaneously more than one > | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > | active connection to the Internet, that is when it is either: > | > | [...] > | > `---- > > And so remember the R.12 requirements: > > ,----[ draft-ietf-nemo-requirements-01.txt ] > | R12: The solution MUST function for multihomed MR [...] > `---- > > Configuration good for: > > o Keep Connectivity Transparently > > Reasons: > o Don't not change anything for the MNNs. > > o Load-Balancing & Policy > > Outbound traffic: > o The MR choose between the two CoAs. > > Inbound traffic: > o The HA choose between the two MR's CoAs. > > So the Prefix-BU should carry some preference for each CoA. > > Clear case for me and you. That's fine. Right :) > > > JetSet: one MR that registers its prefix to Paris and New York at the > > same time in order to optimize routing is a MH(x=1) > > > > The JetSet is the case where the multiple CareOfs are not registered to > > the same HA. The HAs may be far away from each other. The JetSet problem > > is the collaboration of the HAs in order to accept multiple > > registrations, and the selection by the MR of the best via-HA to the > > correspondent. Correlated problem is to get the packets onto the active > > tuunels on the HA side. This is the problem for which I pointed out that > > a dynamic routing over the MRHA is needed, including for me whatever > > causes the MNP prefix to be injected in the Home AS routing protocol > > while the MR is registered. > > The case: > > AR HA2 > _ | > |-|_|-| _ > _____ | |-|_| > _ p _ | |-| > |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| | > _ |-|_|-| |_____|-| _ > |_|-| | | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| > | > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA1 > > Solution requirements: > > o Maybe nothing. > Well, there's something. The HAs have to talk together and with the rest of their area. So the 'static' case does not work anymore. > Configuration used for: > > o HA redundancy > > o Kind of Routing Optimization > > o Load-Balancing & Policy > > Outbound traffic: > o The MR choose between the two HAs. [priority] > > Inbound traffic: > > > o Prefix-BU should carry some priority in the Prefix-BU for each > HA, and thus the HAs announce the prefix in IGP with metric > depending on this priority. > > > Yes > > Shinkansen: A train with one prefix, one careof per MR and 2 MRs, which > > is a MH(y=0). > > > > Shinkansen is about the high availability of a prefix being registered > > by 2 different MRs. The problem is to make that transparent to the MNNs, > > so that if the MRHA tunnel of one MR fails, the MNNs traffic move to the > > other MR. Note that if we have both routers registering the same prefix > > at the same time, this is an x case too. But the second MR can be in hot > > standby, in which case this is not a x case. > > The case: > > MR2 > > p > <-_ | > _ |-|_|-| _____ > |_|-| |-| | > _ | | |-| _ > |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| |-|_|-| > <- | | > p > > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA > > Solution requirements: > > o Allow binding of Multiple CoAs for the same MN-Prefix. > > Configuration used for: > > o Keep Connectivity Transparently > > Reasons: > o The Default Router Selection [RFC 2461, Section 6.3.6] ]is > implemented in all IPv6 Node. So if a router is crunched by > godzilla the MNNs take the other transparently. > That may be slow... And how do you restore a fair share when the crushed router comes back from the dead? > o Router redundancy > > o Load-Balancing & Policy > > Outbound traffic: > > > > I think a kind of good solution is something like that: > > ,----[ draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt ] > | IPng Working Group R. Draves > | Internet Draft Microsoft Research > | Document: draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt R. Hinden > | Nokia > | June 10, 2002 > | > | Default Router Preferences, More-Specific Routes, and Load Sharing > `---- > [http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt ] > > > > Inbound traffic: > > o The HA choose between the two MR CoA's. > > So the Prefix-BU should carry some preference for each CoA. > Yes, but for the last sentence. I do not see that as different whether there's one or more MR. This is why it's an x case too if the 2 MRs register at the same time. And yes, a preference, a metric of some sort, is a way to approach the x problem. > > doubleBed: 2 MRs happening to share the same wireless media for their > > mobile prefix (Erik's problem) is a MH(y=1) > > > > Say MR1 has prefix P1 and HA1, and that MR2 has P2 via HA2. doubleBed > > problem is basically to allow traffic with a careOf in P2 to flow via > > MR1. This requires MR1 to accept P2 in its ingress filtering selection. > > This also requires, if MR2 is down, the HA1 sends traffic for P2 over > > MRHA1. In other words, MR1 has and advertises P2. Julien's case with an > > intermediate router is a good one. For me, this is a case where the MN > > is not a stub anymore, and should be ruled out of scope real quick. > > The case: > > MR2 AR HA2 > > p2 _ | > <-_ | |-|_|-| _ > _ |-|_|-| _____ | |-|_| [Manage p2 only] > |_|-| |-| |-| > _ | | | > |_|-| _ |-|_____|-| _ > |-|_|-| | _ |-|_| [Manage p1 only] > <- | |-|_|-| > p1 | > > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA1 > > Solution requirements: > > o Manage the Ingress Filtering. [Maybe difficult or too high requirement]. > > Configuration imposed by: > > o "2 MRs happening to share the same wireless media for their > mobile prefix". > > These case is maybe out of scope of Nemo. > [See my write below]. > > I prefer this case which is Doublebed too: > > MR2 > > p2 > <-_ | > _ |-|_|-| _____ > |_|-| |-| | > _ | | |-| _ > |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| |-|_|-| > <- | | > p1 > > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA > > And in these case: > > Configuration used for: > > o Keep Connectivity Transparently > > o Router redundancy > > o Load-Balancing & Policy > > Outbound traffic: > > I think a kind of good solution is something like > [draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt] as I write above. > > Inbound traffic: > > o The HA choose between the two MR CoA's. > > So the Prefix-BU should carry some preference for each CoA. > Right :) Note that I saw nowhere a text saying that if you see 2 routers advertising each a different prefix, and if you autoconf'ed an address for each prefix, SAS should derive the best of the 2 addresses depending on which router you are using. That is if MR2 is used for destination D, then source P2::x should be preferred over P1::x. I hope I just missed it but I think this is central to our problem. > > If you see other problems to be solved please update this discussion. I > > could also help on the draft if you wish... > > Examples: > > > _____ > _ p1,p2 _ | | > |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| [Manage p1 & p2] > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > | > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > and > > MR2 AR HA2 > > p2 _ | > <-_ | |-|_|-| _ > _ |-|_|-| _____ | |-|_| [Manage p2 only] > |_|-| |-| |-| > _ | | | > |_|-| _ |-|_____|-| _ > |-|_|-| | _ |-|_| [Manage p1 only] > <- | |-|_|-| > p1 | > > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA1 > > Theses cases are Tarzan [Single HA for CoAs of a same Mobile Network > Prefix], and DoubleBed [Multiple prefixes advertised to the MNNs]. > > In the first case: > > All work like for a simple Tarzan case, so you provide "Keep > Connectivity Transparently" easily. No problem with the doublebed > style. [No Ingress Filtering Rule to change] > Yes, it's just a Tarzan, just with twice as many BUs... Or BUs with more options. > In the second case: > > [I hope I'll be clear as enough] > [I know you [Pascal] understand this problem is just a reminder] > > What's wrong with "Keep Connectivity Transparently": > > The MRs announce two different Mobile Network Prefixes. So the > MNNs have two global source addresses. The MNNs operates a Source > Address Selection [RFC 3484, section 5]. And: > > Example of lost connection: > > A MNN select for a connection the source address prefixed by > p1. And after a moment the connection to the HA1 is lost. > [Godzilla again]. > > Thus the connection is lost. [You can't send the p1 prefixed > packets towards the HA2 because the Ingress Filtering]. But new > connection are possible using the other source addresses. > > The problem is the same for a fixed network. > > Solutions: > > [Not a real solution] > o Do not put different HAs who manage different Network Prefixes for a > same Mobile Network in different domains. > > o [draft-ng-nemo-multihoming-issues-00, > section 3.2.2. Using Alternate Mobile Router] > > o Modify the Ingress filtering rules. > > Thus maybe [sometime] make difference between one router with > multiple CoAs and multiple mobile router can be useful. But I have > write before you provide a good solution, and these examples are very > specific. > Or MR2 autoconf'ed an address in PA (though it's on the side of the standard), advertises that to HA2, which advertises that to the world. Which is just what we want to avoid by making MRs stubby. > Maybe another example more simple: > > In this case: [Tarzan] > _____ > _ p _ | | > |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > | > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > Load-Balancing for Inbound traffic "easy" to manage. > > In this case: [Tarzan too] > > MR2 > > p > <-_ | > _ |-|_|-| _____ > |_|-| |-| | > _ | | |-| _ > |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| |-|_|-| > <- | | > p > > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA > > Load-Balancing for Inbound traffic "hard" to manage. > > > So the difference are maybe not so visible in the solution level, but > much more in the deployment / configuration level. > > Best regard for the people who read the entire mail. > Ouf :) > -- Julien From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu May 22 12:32:43 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20284 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 12:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4MG05u22694 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 12:00:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4MG05B22691 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 12:00:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20272 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 12:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Isxv-0003EQ-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 12:30:51 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Isxu-0003EN-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 12:30:50 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4MFx1B22591; Thu, 22 May 2003 11:59:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4MFvEB22535 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 11:57:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20204 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 12:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IsvA-0003DQ-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 12:28:00 -0400 Received: from motgate3.mot.com ([144.189.100.103]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Isv9-0003DN-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 12:28:00 -0400 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate3.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate3) with ESMTP id h4MGTAVA018256; Thu, 22 May 2003 09:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (thorgal.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.1]) by il06exr03.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr03) with ESMTP id h4MGT5ax003027; Thu, 22 May 2003 11:29:07 -0500 Received: from nal.motlabs.com (test9.crm.mot.com [140.101.173.239]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 318982EC86; Thu, 22 May 2003 18:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3ECCFAD0.6020103@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 18:29:04 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" Cc: Julien Charbon , nemo@ietf.org, Chan-Wah Ng , Thierry Ernst References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.72.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [nemo] Re: MH overloaded term (was: Multiple Egress vs multihoming) Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: >>>order to maintain connectivity while moving is a MH(x=0) >> >> Excuse-me that is MH? [Just for my information] > > > Sorry! MultiHoming Overloaded, I use MH sometimes for Mobile Host (not a Mobile Router), or for Mobility Header... Just 2 cents. Alex GBU From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri May 23 12:18:08 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11207 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4NGHf825828 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:17:41 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NGHfB25825 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:17:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11193 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:17:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JFDJ-00067E-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:16:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JFDI-00067A-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:16:12 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NGBmB25219; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:11:48 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4MEHmB13641 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:17:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA16901 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:49:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IrMy-0002PM-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:48:36 -0400 Received: from seraph2.grc.nasa.gov ([128.156.10.11]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IrMx-0002Ou-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:48:35 -0400 Received: from lombok-fi.lerc.nasa.gov (lombok-fi.grc.nasa.gov [139.88.112.33]) by seraph2.grc.nasa.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05E43689E8 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apataki-fi.lerc.nasa.gov (apataki-fi.grc.nasa.gov [139.88.112.35]) by lombok-fi.lerc.nasa.gov (NASA GRC 8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4MEnRuW029149; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GR7700006462.grc.nasa.gov (ras118.grc.nasa.gov [139.88.123.118]) by apataki-fi.lerc.nasa.gov (NASA GRC 8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4MEnMYM024011; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:49:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Info: ODIN / NASA Glenn Research Center Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20030522104329.017fbf08@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> X-Sender: caivanc@popserve.grc.nasa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:49:19 -0400 To: Julien Charbon From: William D Ivancic Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Cc: nemo@ietf.org, Pascal Thubert , Chan-Wah Ng , Thierry Ernst In-Reply-To: <20030522201842.66a411c1.julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > > Let's go for comments: > > The case: > > _____ > _ p _ | | > |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > | > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > I think it a very classic multi-interface problem. > > Solution requirements: > > If you want to use the two interfaces at the same time: > > o Allow several tunnels between a MR and a HA. > o Allow binding of Multiple CoAs for the same MN-Prefix. > o Identify the CoAs in the Prefix-BU. > Explanations for this requirement: > > At a time on the HA you have: > > HA Nemo Binding cache: > Prefix1/length -> CoA1. > Prefix1/length -> CoA2. > > And then you receive a Prefix-BU from the same MR: > Prefix1/length -> CoA3. > > Which CoA has changed the CoA1 or the CoA2 ? > > If you use just one interface a the same time: > > o Nothing, just switch the interface when one goes down. > > But take care in this case the mobile router it's not a > Multihomed Mobile Router with this behavior according to: > > ,----[ draft-ernst-nemo-terminology-01.txt ] > | Multihomed Mobile Router > | > | A MR is multihomed when it has simultaneously more than one > | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > | active connection to the Internet, that is when it is either: > | > I think we have a semantics issue here. Does "simultaneously more than one active connection" mean that both are available for use or does that mean both are being used - data flowing over both links. I initially thought this meant both are available for use. However, I my though process was biased by the current mobile router implementation I am using. Regardless, I think we need to clarify what is meant by "simultaneous active connection". Will From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri May 23 13:35:57 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15838 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4NHZUe08774 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:35:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NHZUB08771 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:35:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15830 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JGQb-0007gi-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:34:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JGQa-0007gf-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:34:00 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NHTlB07507; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:29:47 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4N5snB08692 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 01:54:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA25505 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 02:26:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19J5zS-0001kh-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 02:25:18 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19J5zR-0001kK-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 02:25:17 -0400 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id C82B05D0BB; Fri, 23 May 2003 15:26:08 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 15:23:32 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: William D Ivancic Cc: julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp, nemo@ietf.org, pthubert@cisco.com, cwng@psl.com.sg Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Message-Id: <20030523152332.4afd01d7.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20030522104329.017fbf08@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> References: <5.1.1.5.2.20030522104329.017fbf08@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 22 May 2003 10:49:19 -0400 William D Ivancic wrote: > > ,----[ draft-ernst-nemo-terminology-01.txt ] > > | Multihomed Mobile Router > > | > > | A MR is multihomed when it has simultaneously more than one > > | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > | active connection to the Internet, that is when it is either: > > | > > > > I think we have a semantics issue here. Does "simultaneously more than one > active connection" mean that both are available for use or does that mean > both are being used - data flowing over both links. I initially thought > this meant both are available for use. However, I my though process was > biased by the current mobile router implementation I am using. Regardless, > I think we need to clarify what is meant by "simultaneous active connection". Hi, Let me explain what I mean. It doesn't mean the connection is being used, it just means available from t=0, and thus that both connections can potentially be used at the same time. From the conversations I had, I thought this is the meaning behind "active", so should be clear. If someone has a better word, please let me know. [May be I catch your point. If you mean a MN has 2 CoAs with 2 APs, but only one interface, this is not a multihomed case. Multihoming means you have more than one access that you can use at the same time]. Thierry From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri May 23 13:49:36 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16793 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4NHnA812230 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:49:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NHn9B12227 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:49:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16783 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JGdo-0000Ea-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:47:40 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JGdn-0000EX-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:47:39 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NHlrB11779; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:47:53 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NAYAB03700 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 06:34:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA01741 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 07:05:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JALg-00044a-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 07:04:32 -0400 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.143.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JALf-00044E-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 07:04:31 -0400 Received: from monster.sfc.wide.ad.jp.sfc.wide.ad.jp (luna.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.143.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.9/8.12.0) with ESMTP id h4NB594W016654; Fri, 23 May 2003 20:05:09 +0900 Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 20:04:37 +0900 Message-ID: From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp Cc: nemo@ietf.org, pthubert@cisco.com, cwng@psl.com.sg, ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp Subject: Re: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming In-Reply-To: <20030522201842.66a411c1.julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp> References: <20030522201842.66a411c1.julien@sfc.wide.ad.jp> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.8.1 (Something) SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/20.7 (i386--freebsd) MULE/4.1 (AOI) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hello all, See my comments below. > Let's go for comments: > > The case: > > _____ > _ p _ | | > |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > | > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > I think it a very classic multi-interface problem. > > Solution requirements: > > If you want to use the two interfaces at the same time: > > o Allow several tunnels between a MR and a HA. > o Allow binding of Multiple CoAs for the same MN-Prefix. > o Identify the CoAs in the Prefix-BU. > Explanations for this requirement: > > At a time on the HA you have: > > HA Nemo Binding cache: > Prefix1/length -> CoA1. > Prefix1/length -> CoA2. > > And then you receive a Prefix-BU from the same MR: > Prefix1/length -> CoA3. > > Which CoA has changed the CoA1 or the CoA2 ? This is why I proposed draft-wakikawa-mip6-multiplecoa-00 on MIP. And the draft can be applied to NEMO case, too. > > JetSet: one MR that registers its prefix to Paris and New York at the > > same time in order to optimize routing is a MH(x=1) > > > > The JetSet is the case where the multiple CareOfs are not registered to > > the same HA. The HAs may be far away from each other. The JetSet problem > > is the collaboration of the HAs in order to accept multiple > > registrations, and the selection by the MR of the best via-HA to the > > correspondent. Correlated problem is to get the packets onto the active > > tuunels on the HA side. This is the problem for which I pointed out that > > a dynamic routing over the MRHA is needed, including for me whatever > > causes the MNP prefix to be injected in the Home AS routing protocol > > while the MR is registered. > > The case: > > AR HA2 > _ | > |-|_|-| _ > _____ | |-|_| > _ p _ | |-| > |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| | > _ |-|_|-| |_____|-| _ > |_|-| | | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| > | > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA1 > > Solution requirements: > > o Maybe nothing. > > Configuration used for: > > o HA redundancy > o Kind of Routing Optimization > o Load-Balancing & Policy > Outbound traffic: > o The MR choose between the two HAs. [priority] > Inbound traffic: > > o Prefix-BU should carry some priority in the Prefix-BU for each > HA, and thus the HAs announce the prefix in IGP with metric > depending on this priority. > Pascal, question about Jetset. I want to know whether Jetset case considers to place two HAs (which serves same mobile network prefix/64(MNP)) in different IGP domains or not. If Yes, I think NEMO requires BGP level operations to route packets to each HA. For example, HA1 can announce MNP by BGP, but HA2 can not announce same MNP by BGP. HA2 may allow to advertise MNP by IGP inside the IGP domain. It is not acceptable to manage unaggregated prefix at BGP level. In this example, HA2 is useful only inside its IGP domain. All packets to the MNP will be routed to HA1 based on BGP routing. In this case, HA2 may be treated as Correpondent Router of MR. Sorry if this question was discussed already in ML. regards, ryuji > > Shinkansen: A train with one prefix, one careof per MR and 2 MRs, which > > is a MH(y=0). > > > > Shinkansen is about the high availability of a prefix being registered > > by 2 different MRs. The problem is to make that transparent to the MNNs, > > so that if the MRHA tunnel of one MR fails, the MNNs traffic move to the > > other MR. Note that if we have both routers registering the same prefix > > at the same time, this is an x case too. But the second MR can be in hot > > standby, in which case this is not a x case. > > The case: > > MR2 > > p > <-_ | > _ |-|_|-| _____ > |_|-| |-| | > _ | | |-| _ > |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| |-|_|-| > <- | | > p > > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA > > Solution requirements: > > o Allow binding of Multiple CoAs for the same MN-Prefix. > > Configuration used for: > > o Keep Connectivity Transparently > > Reasons: > o The Default Router Selection [RFC 2461, Section 6.3.6] ]is > implemented in all IPv6 Node. So if a router is crunched by > godzilla the MNNs take the other transparently. > > o Router redundancy > > o Load-Balancing & Policy > > Outbound traffic: > > > > I think a kind of good solution is something like that: > > ,----[ draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt ] > | IPng Working Group R. Draves > | Internet Draft Microsoft Research > | Document: draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt R. Hinden > | Nokia > | June 10, 2002 > | > | Default Router Preferences, More-Specific Routes, and Load Sharing > `---- > [http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt] > > > > Inbound traffic: > > o The HA choose between the two MR CoA's. > > So the Prefix-BU should carry some preference for each CoA. > > > doubleBed: 2 MRs happening to share the same wireless media for their > > mobile prefix (Erik's problem) is a MH(y=1) > > > > Say MR1 has prefix P1 and HA1, and that MR2 has P2 via HA2. doubleBed > > problem is basically to allow traffic with a careOf in P2 to flow via > > MR1. This requires MR1 to accept P2 in its ingress filtering selection. > > This also requires, if MR2 is down, the HA1 sends traffic for P2 over > > MRHA1. In other words, MR1 has and advertises P2. Julien's case with an > > intermediate router is a good one. For me, this is a case where the MN > > is not a stub anymore, and should be ruled out of scope real quick. > > The case: > > MR2 AR HA2 > > p2 _ | > <-_ | |-|_|-| _ > _ |-|_|-| _____ | |-|_| [Manage p2 only] > |_|-| |-| |-| > _ | | | > |_|-| _ |-|_____|-| _ > |-|_|-| | _ |-|_| [Manage p1 only] > <- | |-|_|-| > p1 | > > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA1 > > Solution requirements: > > o Manage the Ingress Filtering. [Maybe difficult or too high requirement]. > > Configuration imposed by: > > o "2 MRs happening to share the same wireless media for their > mobile prefix". > > These case is maybe out of scope of Nemo. > [See my write below]. > > I prefer this case which is Doublebed too: > > MR2 > > p2 > <-_ | > _ |-|_|-| _____ > |_|-| |-| | > _ | | |-| _ > |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| |-|_|-| > <- | | > p1 > > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA > > And in these case: > > Configuration used for: > > o Keep Connectivity Transparently > > o Router redundancy > > o Load-Balancing & Policy > > Outbound traffic: > > I think a kind of good solution is something like > [draft-ietf-ipv6-router-selection-02.txt] as I write above. > > Inbound traffic: > > o The HA choose between the two MR CoA's. > > So the Prefix-BU should carry some preference for each CoA. > > > If you see other problems to be solved please update this discussion. I > > could also help on the draft if you wish... > > Examples: > > > _____ > _ p1,p2 _ | | > |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| [Manage p1 & p2] > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > | > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > and > > MR2 AR HA2 > > p2 _ | > <-_ | |-|_|-| _ > _ |-|_|-| _____ | |-|_| [Manage p2 only] > |_|-| |-| |-| > _ | | | > |_|-| _ |-|_____|-| _ > |-|_|-| | _ |-|_| [Manage p1 only] > <- | |-|_|-| > p1 | > > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA1 > > Theses cases are Tarzan [Single HA for CoAs of a same Mobile Network > Prefix], and DoubleBed [Multiple prefixes advertised to the MNNs]. > > In the first case: > > All work like for a simple Tarzan case, so you provide "Keep > Connectivity Transparently" easily. No problem with the doublebed > style. [No Ingress Filtering Rule to change] > > In the second case: > > [I hope I'll be clear as enough] > [I know you [Pascal] understand this problem is just a reminder] > > What's wrong with "Keep Connectivity Transparently": > > The MRs announce two different Mobile Network Prefixes. So the > MNNs have two global source addresses. The MNNs operates a Source > Address Selection [RFC 3484, section 5]. And: > > Example of lost connection: > > A MNN select for a connection the source address prefixed by > p1. And after a moment the connection to the HA1 is lost. > [Godzilla again]. > > Thus the connection is lost. [You can't send the p1 prefixed > packets towards the HA2 because the Ingress Filtering]. But new > connection are possible using the other source addresses. > > The problem is the same for a fixed network. > > Solutions: > > [Not a real solution] > o Do not put different HAs who manage different Network Prefixes for a > same Mobile Network in different domains. > > o [draft-ng-nemo-multihoming-issues-00, > section 3.2.2. Using Alternate Mobile Router] > > o Modify the Ingress filtering rules. > > Thus maybe [sometime] make difference between one router with > multiple CoAs and multiple mobile router can be useful. But I have > write before you provide a good solution, and these examples are very > specific. > > Maybe another example more simple: > > In this case: [Tarzan] > _____ > _ p _ | | > |_|-|<-_ |-|_|-| |-| _ > _ |-|_|=| |_____| | _ |-|_| > |_|-| | |-|_|-| > | > > MNNs MR AR Internet AR HA > > Load-Balancing for Inbound traffic "easy" to manage. > > In this case: [Tarzan too] > > MR2 > > p > <-_ | > _ |-|_|-| _____ > |_|-| |-| | > _ | | |-| _ > |_|-| _ |-|_____| | _ |-|_| > |-|_|-| |-|_|-| > <- | | > p > > MNNs MR1 Internet AR HA > > Load-Balancing for Inbound traffic "hard" to manage. > > > So the difference are maybe not so visible in the solution level, but > much more in the deployment / configuration level. > > Best regard for the people who read the entire mail. > > -- Julien From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri May 23 13:54:35 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17189 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4NHs9k13531 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:54:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NHs9B13522 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:54:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17072 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JGid-0000MZ-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:52:39 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JGic-0000MT-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:52:38 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NHmAB11926; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:48:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NB1kB05344 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 07:01:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02369 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 07:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JAmO-0004HA-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 07:32:08 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JAmN-0004H6-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 07:32:07 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 May 2003 13:32:24 +0100 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4NBV4qk006052; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:31:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 23 May 2003 13:33:00 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:32:59 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo] Multiple Egress vs multihoming Thread-Index: AcMhGz6POZlLG8ACQxOah1jsmyA0lgAAxsCw From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Ryuji Wakikawa" , Cc: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2003 11:33:00.0268 (UTC) FILETIME=[109922C0:01C3211F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4NB1kB05345 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Pascal, question about Jetset. > I want to know whether Jetset case considers to place two HAs (which > serves same mobile network prefix/64(MNP)) in different IGP domains or not. Yes :) > > If Yes, I think NEMO requires BGP level operations to route packets to > each HA. > I think you understand the problem. I'm not sure you word it right. I think the HAs must form a routing plane that is across Admin boundaries, and may redistribute the result in their own AS. But if you have to design a HAHA protocol to replace the home network, I suspect you'd better not tie it to a physical link and make it at L3, for instance over a multicast group of HAs? > For example, HA1 can announce MNP by BGP, but HA2 can not announce > same MNP by BGP. HA2 may allow to advertise MNP by IGP inside the IGP > domain. It is not acceptable to manage unaggregated prefix at BGP > level. > > In this example, HA2 is useful only inside its IGP domain. All packets > to the MNP will be routed to HA1 based on BGP routing. > In this case, HA2 may be treated as Correpondent Router of MR. > > Sorry if this question was discussed already in ML. Well, I mentioned that several times in the ML including to you. I think Erik rejected the idea of the HA-HA protocol as being out of our charter. Anyway, this case is one of the reasons why I support your draft, even if it is an indirect one. > > regards, Me too :) Pascal From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon May 26 05:56:21 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07169 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4Q9uKe24758 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:56:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4Q9uKB24755 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:56:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07149 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KEgO-0004wY-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:54:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KEgN-0004wU-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:54:19 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4Q9tXB24735; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:55:33 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4Q9scB24684 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:54:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07119 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KEek-0004w9-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:52:38 -0400 Received: from mailsrv.psl.com.sg ([202.14.153.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KEej-0004vj-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 05:52:37 -0400 Received: from beethoven.psl.com.sg (beethoven.psl.com.sg [10.81.113.99]) by mailsrv.psl.com.sg (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h4Q9kqi27519 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 17:46:52 +0800 (SGT) Received: by beethoven.psl.com.sg (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2DB2B10E95DA; Mon, 26 May 2003 17:56:01 +0800 (SGT) From: Chan-Wah Ng To: IETF NEMO WG Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Panasonic Singapore Laboratories Message-Id: <1053942960.2293.35.camel@beethoven> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4- Date: 26 May 2003 17:56:01 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [nemo] draft-ng-nemo-multihoming-issues-01.txt Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, all, We have submitted a new version of the multihoming draft for publication. It might take sometime for the draft to appear in the IETF repository. Meanwhile, it can be accessed via the following link: http://www.sfc.wide.ad.jp/~julien/papers/draft-ng-nemo-multihoming-issues-01.txt Please give us your comments. Hopefully, we can get it updated and ready for discussion by the Vienna IETF. Thanks. -- Chan-Wah Ng Panasonic Singapore Laboratories From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon May 26 09:00:34 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10653 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 09:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4QD07v04413 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 09:00:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4QD07B04410 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 09:00:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10649 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 09:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KHYe-0005yh-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 08:58:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KHYd-0005ye-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 08:58:31 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4QCxSB04363; Mon, 26 May 2003 08:59:28 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4QCwGB04319 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 08:58:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10580 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 08:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KHWr-0005xg-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 08:56:41 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KHWq-0005xX-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 08:56:41 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 May 2003 14:57:00 +0100 Received: from xbe-ams-313.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4QCtilE015564; Mon, 26 May 2003 14:55:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-ams-313.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 26 May 2003 14:57:41 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6410.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 13:57:40 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [nemo-base-dt] slight difference in understanding Thread-Index: AcMjRCRY1g1yAnFMQByweb6gRlf9HAAK2rlQ From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Thierry Ernst" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2003 12:57:41.0044 (UTC) FILETIME=[64374740:01C32386] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4QCwHB04320 Subject: [nemo] [nemo-base-dt] slight difference in understanding Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Thierry: We seem to have a slight difference in point of view. I understand that for you, multiple egresses mean multiple physical egress links. For me, it's multiple MNet-Home tunnels, active in parallel. -> So multiple CareOfs is a multihoming case. -> Also, having multiple physical egress is not multihoming if you register a single CareOf at any given point of time (I agree with William). The number of egress physical interfaces seems to be a natural thing for a router, but should be inconsequential to the protocol. I believe that with Julien and Chan Wah, we came up with something that you could retrofit in your requirements. In all cases, multihoming means that the MNet is registered several times. In other words, there are several active tunnels between home and the MNet. This may happen if a MR performs several registrations for a mobile network, or if there are several active MRs registering the MNet in parallel. -> The first sub-case appears if you have several CareOfs including-OR several HAs, which cases you listed; but in that sub-case, having multiple prefixes seem inconsequential since it's just repeating the single prefix several times. -> The second sub-case appears if you have several MRs (...) but has necessarily different CareOfs since there are different routers. But having different prefixes advertised to the MNet introduces a new set of problems. The approaches to the way this list should be presented may have differed a bit, but I hope this summary represents the state the part of our discussion in the ML that we agreed upon(the rest being petty details to be honest). Chan Wah, Julien is that OK? Pascal From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue May 27 02:04:20 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA21175 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4R64Df07317 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:04:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4R64CB07314 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:04:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA20648 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KXXL-0007mr-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:02:15 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KXXL-0007mo-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:02:15 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4R63gB07274; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:03:42 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4R62SB07058 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:02:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA18770 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KXVf-0007le-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:00:31 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KXVe-0007lS-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 02:00:30 -0400 Received: from wanwan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (wanwan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.131]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E249E5D20E for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 15:01:32 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:01:32 +0900 Message-ID: From: Koshiro MITSUYA To: nemo@ietf.org User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.8.1 (Something) EMIKO/1.14.1 (Choanoflagellata) LIMIT/1.14.7 (Fujiidera) APEL/10.3 Emacs/20.7 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/4.0 (HANANOEN) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by EMIKO 1.14.1 - "Choanoflagellata") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [nemo] commet on R01 Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Dear all, I have a comment on R01 of the nemo requirement draft. In the draft, R01: The solution MUST be implemented at the IP layer level. And maybe the following text are corresponding to this requirement, - Operational Transparency: NEMO support is to be implemented at the IP layer level. It is expected to be transparent to upper layers so that any upper layer protocol can run unchanged on top of an IP layer extended with NEMO support. But I think that this requirement get us confused. In fact, we have some implementations of network-layer mobility protocols partly implemented at application layer. I forgot who did suggest this requirement by this description, but I see what you want to say. Thus I would like to suggest, R01: The solution MUST be transparent to upper layers. FYI, in the mip6 draft, The movement of a mobile node away from its home link is thus transparent to transport and higher-layer protocols and applications. What do you think about this?? thanks, Koshiro From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue May 27 17:05:39 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02516 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4RL5D822287 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:05:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4RL5DB22284 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:05:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02480 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Klbb-0001YB-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:03:35 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Klbb-0001Y7-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:03:35 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4RL4LB22194; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:04:21 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4R7MoB24202 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 03:22:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01092 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 03:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KYlP-0001A2-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 03:20:51 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KYlN-00019z-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 03:20:50 -0400 Received: from web10502.mail.yahoo.com (web10502.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.152]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h4R7MCvk026935 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:22:16 +0200 Message-ID: <20030527072208.9775.qmail@web10502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.196.130.114] by web10502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 May 2003 00:22:08 PDT Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 00:22:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ravi Says..." To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1377267686-1054020128=:9756" Subject: [nemo] Information request Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-1377267686-1054020128=:9756 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I Ravi Sekhar Reddy.A pursuing postgraduation in the field of Information and Communication Technology. At present I'm working on Mobile IP. I want to know how the Address Resolution Protocol works in Mobile IP and what are the currently used Address Resolution Protocols in Mobile IP.Can you please send me the rquired information. Thanking you Regards Ravi Sekhar Reddy.A M.Tech (Information and Communication Technology) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-1377267686-1054020128=:9756 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hello,
         I Ravi Sekhar Reddy.A pursuing postgraduation in the field of Information and Communication Technology. At present I'm working on Mobile IP. I want to know how the Address Resolution Protocol works in Mobile IP and what are the currently used Address Resolution Protocols in Mobile IP.Can you please send me the rquired information.
                 Thanking you
Regards
Ravi Sekhar Reddy.A
M.Tech (Information and Communication Technology)

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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-1377267686-1054020128=:9756-- From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue May 27 17:05:39 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02519 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4RL5EO22303 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:05:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4RL5EB22300 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:05:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02483 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Klbc-0001YH-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:03:36 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Klbb-0001YC-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:03:35 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4RL4RB22210; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:04:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4RIo8B11878 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 14:50:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA24460 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 14:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KjUq-0007Oy-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 14:48:28 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KjUo-0007Ov-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 14:48:27 -0400 Received: from lrg.ufsc.br (orion.lrg.ufsc.br [150.162.63.1]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4RIntvk030432 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 20:49:58 +0200 Received: from localhost (westphal@localhost) by (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24812 Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:40:40 -0400 (WST) From: Carlos Becker Westphall To: Carlos Becker Westphall Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4RIo8B11879 Subject: [nemo] LANOMS'03 - Nine days to the Deadline (JUNE 6TH) - No more extendable (fwd) Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by www1.ietf.org id h4RL4RB22210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h4RL5EB22300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LANOMS'03 - Nine days to the Deadline (JUNE 6TH) - No more extendable ### #### # ## # # #### # # #### # # # # # # ## # # # ## ## # # # # # # # # # # # # # ## # #### # # ### # ###### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ## # # # # # # # # # ###### # # # # #### # # #### ### #### LANOMS 2003 ----------- 3rd Latin American Network Operations and Management Symposium Iguassu Falls, Brazil September 4-6, 2003 IEEE ComSoc CNOM Technically Co-sponsored http://www.inf.ufpr.br/lanoms lanoms@inf.ufpr.br Call for Papers --------------- The Third Latin American Network Operations and Management Symposium - LANOMS, to be held in Iguassu Falls (Foz do Iguaçu), Brazil, is the result of the great success of both LANOMS'1999 which was held in Rio de Janeiro and LANOMS'2001 which was held in Belo Horizonte, as well as the other events in the area of network management known as NOMS and APNOMS. NOMS (Network Operations and Management Symposium) was originally created 13 years ago, and nowadays constitutes a worldwide event for the researches in the area of network management. The Asia/Pacific community promoted the APNOMS (Asia-Pacific Network Operations and Management Symposium), which is an event more oriented to the research and development community in that region. Continuing the success of the second LANOMS, we will promote the third edition of LANOMS (http://www.inf.ufpr.br/lanoms) on September 4-6 2003, in Iguassu Falls, Paraná, Brazil. The symposium is a promotion of the Federal University of Paraná (UFPR), Brazil, technically co-sponsored by IEEE Communications Society, and supported by IEEE Technical Committee on Network Operations and Management (CNOM). The main goal of the LANOMS is to create a forum more specific to the necessities of Latin America in the area of network management involving networking and telecommunication companies, academic institutions and equipment vendors. LANOMS is an event open to participants from all over the world who are interest in having, or already have, research or commercial liaisons in Latin America - one of the fastest growing regions in the world in networking. This year, we intend to increase the submissions from North America, Europe, Africa and Asia. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to: - Integrating Intrusion Detection and Network Management - Intrusion Policy Management - Web Services Security - Business and Service Management - Management Platforms, Interoperability, Standards and Protocols - Management of Networks and Services: VPNs, Optical Networks, CATV Networks, Mobile/Wireless and Ad-Hoc Networks, Voice over IP, Transaction-Oriented Services, Electronic Commerce, Active and Programmable Networks, Sensor Networks - Management Technologies and Frameworks (Web, XML, CORBA, DEN, etc) - Management Aspects of Service Pricing, Accounting and Billing - Management of Service Level Agreements and Quality of Service - Bandwidth Brokerage - Data Warehousing and Data Mining in Management - Programmable, Mobile and Intelligent Agents in Management - Network and Systems Monitoring - Fault and Performance Management - Security Management - Configuration Management and Policy-Driven Management - Information Modeling - Traffic and Performance Management - Open-Source Management Software - Management of Grid Computing, Clusters, Peer-to-Peer Applications, and Ubiquitous Computing Environments - Operations Support Systems - Business Processes for Network and Service Management - Peer-to-peer Network Technologies for Management - Management of Distributed Systems - Case Studies and Experiences in Management Authors are invited to submit unpublished papers, which are not under review for publication elsewhere. Papers are to be submitted in English. Submissions should be complete, full-length papers and should not exceed 12 pages. Electronic submission of papers is mandatory. Full instructions for the electronic submissions will be available soon on the LANOMS Web page. Authors are requested to submit papers in PDF (preferred) or PostScript format via web. The manuscript should include an abstract and three key-words. The format is size A4 (preferred) or Letter, single column, font size 12. All papers will be carefully reviewed by at least three international experts and returned to the author(s) with comments to ensure high quality. Important Dates: ---------------- Deadline for receipt of papers: June 06, 2003 Notification of acceptance: June 30, 2003 Final camera ready paper due: July 15, 2003 LANOMS 2003 Committee --------------------- General Chair: Elias Procópio Duarte Jr., Brazil elias@inf.ufpr.br TPC Chair: Edmundo Roberto Mauro Madeira, Brazil edmundo@ic.unicamp.br Tutorial Chair: José Marcos Silva Nogueira, Brazil jmarcos@dcc.ufmg.br Publicity Chair: Carlos Becker Westphall, Brazil westphal@lrg.ufsc.br International Liaisons: Asia: Masayoshi Ejiri ejiri@jp.fujitsu.com Australia: Abbas Jamalipour abbas@ee.usyd.edu.au Europe: Rolf Stadler stadler@ctr.columbia.edu North America: Mehmet Ulema mehmet.ulema@manhattan.edu Africa: Abderrahim Sekkaki sekkaki@hotmail.com Peru: Carlos Silva csilva@pucp.edu.pe Colombia: Aldo Forero aforero@col1.telecom.com.co Colombia: Omar Rodriguez Ramirez omar-r@andinet.com Chile: Ivan Ramirez Ayala iraft@123mail.cl Costa Rica: Francisco Murrillo fmurillos@ice.go.cr Technical Program Committee: Abdelmalek Benzekri - Université Paul Sabatier, France Ahmed Karmouch - Univ. of Ottawa, Canada Antonio Alfredo F. Loureiro - Federal Univ. of Minas Gerais, Brazil Bruno R. Schulze - LNCC, Brazil Carlos Becker Westphall - Federal Univ. of Santa Catarina, Brazil Carlos de Castro Goulart - Federal Univ. of Viçosa, Brazil Elias P. Duarte Jr. (General Chair) - Federal Univ. of Paraná, Brazil Edmundo Monteiro - Univ. of Coimbra, Portugal Edmundo R. M. Madeira (TPC Chair) - State Univ. of Campinas, Brazil Edward L. Pinnes - Telcordia, USA Elizabeth Specialski - Federal Univ. of Santa Catarina, Brazil Fernando Boavida - Univ. of Coimbra, Portugal Germán Goldszmidt - IBM, USA Iara Machado - RNP, Brazil James Won-Ki Hong - Postech, Korea Javier Diaz - Univ. of La Plata, Argentina José Marcos Silva Nogueira - Federal Univ. of Minas Gerais, Brazil José Neuman de Souza - Federal Univ. of Ceará, Brazil Liane Tarouco - Federal Univ. of Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil Lisandro Z. Granville - Federal Univ. of Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil Luciano P. Gaspary - Univ. of Vale do Rio dos Sinos, Brazil Lundy Lewis - Aprisma Management Technologies, USA Masayoshi Ejiri - Fujitsu, Japan Mehmet Ulema, Manhattan College, USA Nazim Agoulmine - Univ. of Evry - France Nelson L.S. Fonseca - State Univ. of Campinas, Brazil Otto C.M.B. Duarte - Federal Univ. of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Raouf Boutaba - Univ. of Waterloo, Canada Thomas Magedanz - IKV++ Technologies AG, TU Berlin, Germany From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 28 00:38:45 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA19956 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4S4cKc21112 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:38:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4S4cKB21109 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:38:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA19945 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Ksg6-00063q-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:36:42 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Ksg5-00063n-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:36:41 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4S4bbB21087; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:37:37 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4S4aSB20183 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:36:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA19863 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KseI-00062A-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:34:50 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KseF-000625-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:34:48 -0400 Received: from web14311.mail.yahoo.com (web14311.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.61]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h4S4a9vk002148 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 06:36:13 +0200 Message-ID: <20030528043603.39905.qmail@web14311.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.94.6.28] by web14311.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 May 2003 21:36:03 PDT Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 21:36:03 -0700 (PDT) From: atq atiq To: nemo@nal.motlabs.com In-Reply-To: <20030527072208.9775.qmail@web10502.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [nemo] simple question - pls answer - why the bidirectional tunnel Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Dear all, As a new customer, i don't understand the need for tunnelling for the case VMN[say, laptop] ---> FAofMR --[tunnelling here]--> HAofMR ---> CN to send packets from VMN to CN [assume that CN already sent some to VMN]. if there is no tunnelling from FAofMR --[tunnelling here]--> HAofMR, what is the prob. or otherwise what's the benefits? Pls. let me know. Thanks in advance. aa __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed May 28 03:03:59 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19341 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 03:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4S73YF08603 for nemo-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 03:03:34 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4S73YB08600 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 03:03:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19324 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 03:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Kuwb-0007Eo-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 03:01:53 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Kuwa-0007El-00 for nemo-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 03:01:52 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4S72jB08562; Wed, 28 May 2003 03:02:45 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4S71WB08477 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 03:01:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19240 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 03:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Kuud-0007DV-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 02:59:51 -0400 Received: from dns1.nal.motlabs.com ([195.212.111.242] helo=jessica.nal.motlabs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KuuV-0007DQ-00 for nemo@ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 02:59:49 -0400 Received: from ALPHA8.ITS.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha8.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.8]) by jessica.nal.motlabs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4S711vk002910 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 09:01:07 +0200 Received: from thwack.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.72]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01KWFJWK24549B3EBY@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for nemo@nal.motlabs.com; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:36:15 +1000 Received: from thwack.its.monash.edu.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9516D12C00A; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:36:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from eng.monash.edu.au (knuth.eng.monash.edu.au [130.194.252.110]) by thwack.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A1212C006; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:36:15 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:36:15 +1000 From: Greg Daley Subject: Re: [nemo] simple question - pls answer - why the bidirectional tunnel To: atq atiq Cc: nemo@nal.motlabs.com Reply-to: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au Message-id: <3ED458DF.8010003@eng.monash.edu.au> Organization: Monash University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020529 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us References: <20030528043603.39905.qmail@web14311.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: nemo-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: nemo-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: NEMO Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Atiq, Routers in the visited fixed network will Ingress filter to prevent address spoofing. Reverse tunnels are required, so that MNNs have an address on the NEMO which is topologically correct. Greg Daley. atq atiq wrote: > Dear all, > As a new customer, i don't understand the need for tunnelling for the > case > VMN[say, laptop] ---> FAofMR --[tunnelling here]--> HAofMR ---> CN > > to send packets from VMN to CN [assume that CN already sent some to > VMN]. > > if there is no tunnelling from FAofMR --[tunnelling here]--> HAofMR, > what is the prob. or otherwise what's the benefits? > > Pls. let me know. > > Thanks in advance. > > > aa > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com