From nobody Wed Aug 1 08:41:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F6A8130DC1; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 08:41:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.509 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ipRT-lmGUkWV; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 08:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AAFC130E34; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 08:41:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=17988; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1533138064; x=1534347664; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=v+voaDMgYIzjj8vzVDCKes+lRAGtc+gvkt/fUvqE+kU=; b=VmgI3kWtt1172kCaY7KSG3MERryQ1LBllVVT2KVwHcqqtolgNjp/DcoH E7i5O2Oph9XO+1xeI2K8/gzwXdvQ0K176eerT33pZECpC2ovekKhukg8d 1pOlvMiLqu1Hja4oXTVH+fGRduCI8IHwALb0Qvzrt4/94EBuHQUlyw12h Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CVAQBL1GFb/5hdJa1SBgMZAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBBwEBAQEBgld3Y38oCoN0lESCDZA+hRqBegsfhE0CF4MsITUXAQI?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQIBAQJtHAyFNgEBAQMBIwpMBQkCAgEIEAUDDRoDAgICGRcUEQIEDgUIgxm?= =?us-ascii?q?BG1wIsR6BLopSBQWJAxeBQT+BEoMShFQUJAkKFRGCOoI1IAKMcI0uCQKPMoF?= =?us-ascii?q?QhxCFOZIbAhEUgSQfAjSBUnAVgySGNIofb45SgRsBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,432,1526342400"; d="scan'208,217";a="432200418" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 01 Aug 2018 15:40:44 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com (xch-rtp-015.cisco.com [64.101.220.155]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w71Feic8012978 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Aug 2018 15:40:44 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 11:40:43 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 11:40:43 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Andy Bierman CC: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Martin Bjorklund" , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? Thread-Index: AQHUJ1ReOwlfbH+3hkGPLp9Bm3apCaSn4DUwgAB+GwCAAYN0gP//xXiQgABoMwCAAPqzIA== Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 15:40:43 +0000 Message-ID: <0fcd4458ea874fd39f384d847353970e@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <727ae35abd394a85812168615acce2d3@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180729.175356.1841285666617255654.mbj@tail-f.com> <77080682bf90495caec48436453e4750@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180730.204142.1505732335534077415.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180731174827.n5r2jebon45s2cxy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.234] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0fcd4458ea874fd39f384d847353970eXCHRTP013ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.155, xch-rtp-015.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? 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(dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-106.cisco.com [10.63.23.106]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w71G1dFT008733; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 16:01:40 GMT To: Andy Bierman , "Eric Voit (evoit)" Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <727ae35abd394a85812168615acce2d3@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180729.175356.1841285666617255654.mbj@tail-f.com> <77080682bf90495caec48436453e4750@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180730.204142.1505732335534077415.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180731174827.n5r2jebon45s2cxy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:01:39 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C7247EADB1E0C867CE1A1D37" Content-Language: en-US X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.63.23.106, dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-106.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 16:01:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C7247EADB1E0C867CE1A1D37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) > wrote: > > > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM > > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > > > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it > requires that > > > some transport-specific parameters are configured.  However, > can we > > > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here? > > > > Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters? > > > > > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead > > > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and > since > > > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can > actually > > > be marked as mandatory. > > > > Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is > incomplete and > > unusable without an augmentation". > > My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should > *not* use the empty mandatory choice.  Let me know if I got this > wrong. > > > I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with > Juergen > and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a > "MUST augment" use-case very well. I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a conformance perspective.  The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, abstract class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed for YANG.  If a server implements the module but no augments of the choice then it cannot be configured because the constraint will always fail.  Andy, is your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is unusable? I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the description because the former is machine readable whilst the latter is not. However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", but with the choice description to state something along the lines that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport case statement is available."  But perhaps some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible). One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added. Thanks, Rob > > I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice, > instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants MUST) > > > Andy > > > > That would mean that each transport document supporting configured > subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to > "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver".  And (assuming > the "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't changed), that > the identity "transport" could be leveraged to enforce that only a > single transport specific set of credentials are associated with a > receiver. > > A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like: > > module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications { > >   prefix nsn; > >   import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; } >   import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; } > >   identity netconf { >     base sn:transport; >     base sn:inline-address; >     description >       "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification messages and >        state change notifications."; >   } > >   augment > "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" { >    when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")'; >    description >       "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters to be >       exposed for a receiver."; >     leaf netconf-endpoint { >       type leafref { >         path "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" + >                 "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name"; >       } >       mandatory true; >       description >         "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF > transport if >         an existing NETCONF session from that client is not > available."; >     } >   } > } > > Which results in: >   +--rw subscriptions >      +--rw subscription* >         +--rw transport         transport  {configured}? >         +--rw receivers >            +--rw receiver* >               +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint    leafref > > Eric > > > > /js > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | > Germany > > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103        >   > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors --------------C7247EADB1E0C867CE1A1D37 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) <evoit@cisco.com> wrote:
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> >
> > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it requires that
> > some transport-specific parameters are configured.  However, can we
> > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here?
>
> Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters?
>
> > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead
> > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and since
> > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can actually
> > be marked as mandatory.
>
> Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is incomplete and
> unusable without an augmentation".

My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should *not* use the empty mandatory choice.  Let me know if I got this wrong.


I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with Juergen
and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a
"MUST augment" use-case very well.
I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a conformance perspective.  The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, abstract class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed for YANG.  If a server implements the module but no augments of the choice then it cannot be configured because the constraint will always fail.  Andy, is your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is unusable?

I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the description because the former is machine readable whilst the latter is not.

However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", but with the choice description to state something along the lines that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport case statement is available."  But perhaps some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible).

One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added.

Thanks,
Rob



I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice,
instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants MUST)


Andy



 
That would mean that each transport document supporting configured subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver".   And (assuming the "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't changed), that the identity "transport" could be leveraged to enforce that only a single transport specific set of credentials are associated with a receiver.   

A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like:

module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications {

  prefix nsn;

  import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; }
  import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; }

  identity netconf {
    base sn:transport;
    base sn:inline-address;
    description
      "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification messages and
       state change notifications.";
  }

  augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" {
   when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")';   
   description
      "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters to be
      exposed for a receiver.";
    leaf netconf-endpoint {
      type leafref {
        path "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" +
                "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name";
      }
      mandatory true;
      description
        "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF transport if
        an existing NETCONF session from that client is not available.";
    }
  } 
}

Which results in:
  +--rw subscriptions
     +--rw subscription*
        +--rw transport         transport  {configured}?
        +--rw receivers
           +--rw receiver*
              +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint    leafref

Eric


> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>



_______________________________________________
yang-doctors mailing list
yang-doctors@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors

--------------C7247EADB1E0C867CE1A1D37-- From nobody Wed Aug 1 09:04:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A8E130E44 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:03:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qHnTAg_jjPbZ for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10835130E2E for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:03:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3688; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1533139437; x=1534349037; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=/UhqNVtvu+IXZgHiH84vq7UmMhjy6//jFxq6E2RLaqA=; b=iOQNWIbHaInVFmfiPhBuuWX1cdbZ2l1FbOnapw3mBy8vwO3lw8dBiMcs 3gbuCXv1qwdJVdstGsBEWLYywD1q/lIxB9G2LrDR7r8iMDBF5xw8Tkk+p HTr/H7I0NELUh0DGnobX6sjGebizoxOEES1AJNfT83mwfG+gJkIqiwpvP Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AyAgAK2WFb/51dJa1bGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYNOY38yg3SIBow/gg2DPJIcgXoLhGwCF4MsITQYAQIBAQI?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQJtKIU2AQEBAwEjEUUFCwIBCA4HBQImAgICMBUQAgQBDQ2DGYF3CLEugS6?= =?us-ascii?q?KWIELh30XgUE/hCSEaIMXgjUgAoxwhSaICAkCjzKBUIxJiBOKCAIRFIEkHTi?= =?us-ascii?q?BUnAVO4JqkFKPQYEbAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,432,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="432106407" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 01 Aug 2018 16:03:57 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (xch-rtp-013.cisco.com [64.101.220.153]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w71G3uk0026373 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Aug 2018 16:03:57 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 12:03:56 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 12:03:56 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Kent Watsen , Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: Martin Bjorklund , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? Thread-Index: AQHUKEYUmUSBX283/kCJ9HawSKyfbKSp4eIAgABmOICAAMa8kA== Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 16:03:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <44B0A74E-CCF0-4E9B-846A-1F46E90AEB5E@juniper.net> <20180731175538.tsdcuea4lbdl7fui@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0291FEFB-B0BE-4CA2-8EAB-B1736549B763@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <0291FEFB-B0BE-4CA2-8EAB-B1736549B763@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.234] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.153, xch-rtp-013.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? 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Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:09:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:aa46:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:09:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> References: <727ae35abd394a85812168615acce2d3@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180729.175356.1841285666617255654.mbj@tail-f.com> <77080682bf90495caec48436453e4750@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180730.204142.1505732335534077415.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180731174827.n5r2jebon45s2cxy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:09:35 -0700 Message-ID: To: Robert Wilton Cc: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ce1dfb057261ebc7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 16:09:43 -0000 --000000000000ce1dfb057261ebc7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > > > On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) > wrote: > >> > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM >> > >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> > > >> > > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it requires that >> > > some transport-specific parameters are configured. However, can we >> > > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here? >> > >> > Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters? >> > >> > > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead >> > > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and since >> > > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can actually >> > > be marked as mandatory. >> > >> > Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is >> incomplete and >> > unusable without an augmentation". >> >> My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should *not* use >> the empty mandatory choice. Let me know if I got this wrong. >> >> > I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with Juergen > and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a > "MUST augment" use-case very well. > > I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a conformance > perspective. The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, > abstract class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed > for YANG. If a server implements the module but no augments of the choice > then it cannot be configured because the constraint will always fail. > Andy, is your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is > unusable? > That is possible. I agree with Juergen that a mandatory empty choice clearly indicates that the module is incomplete and unusable on its own. Is that a feature? Andy > > I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in > the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the description because > the former is machine readable whilst the latter is not. > > However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", but with > the choice description to state something along the lines that the empty > choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and > configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport > case statement is available." But perhaps some implementation will provide > the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if > this is feasible). > > One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG > allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision in a backwards > compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added. > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice, > instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants MUST) > > > Andy > > > > > >> That would mean that each transport document supporting configured >> subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to >> "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver". And (assuming the >> "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't changed), that the identity >> "transport" could be leveraged to enforce that only a single transport >> specific set of credentials are associated with a receiver. >> >> A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like: >> >> module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications { >> >> prefix nsn; >> >> import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; } >> import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; } >> >> identity netconf { >> base sn:transport; >> base sn:inline-address; >> description >> "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification messages and >> state change notifications."; >> } >> >> augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" { >> when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")'; >> description >> "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters to be >> exposed for a receiver."; >> leaf netconf-endpoint { >> type leafref { >> path "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" + >> "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name"; >> } >> mandatory true; >> description >> "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF transport if >> an existing NETCONF session from that client is not available."; >> } >> } >> } >> >> Which results in: >> +--rw subscriptions >> +--rw subscription* >> +--rw transport transport {configured}? >> +--rw receivers >> +--rw receiver* >> +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint leafref >> >> Eric >> >> >> > /js >> > >> > -- >> > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing listyang-doctors@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > > > --000000000000ce1dfb057261ebc7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com&g= t; wrote:
=20 =20 =20



On 31/07/2018 21:31,= Andy Bierman wrote:
=20


On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) <evoit@cisco.com> wrote:
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> >
> > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it requires that
> > some transport-specific parameters are configured.=C2=A0 However, can we
> > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here?
>
> Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters?
>
> > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead
> > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and since
> > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can actually
> > be marked as mandatory.
>
> Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is incomplete and
> unusable without an augmentation".

My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should *not* use the empty mandatory choice.=C2=A0 Let me kno= w if I got this wrong.


I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with Juergen
and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a
"MUST augment" use-case very well.
I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a conformance perspective.=C2=A0 The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, abstract class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed for YANG.=C2=A0 If a server implements the module but no augments of the choice then it cannot be configured because the constraint will always fail.=C2=A0 Andy, is your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is unusable?

That is possible.
I agree with Juergen that a mandatory empty choice clearly indicat= es that the module is incomplete
and unusable on its own.=C2=A0 I= s that a feature? =C2=A0

Andy
=C2=A0

I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in the choice than "MUST provide an implementation"= ; in the description because the former is machine readable whilst the latter is not.

However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true&quo= t;, but with the choice description to state something along the lines that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport case statement is available."=C2=A0 But perhap= s some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible).

One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revis= ion in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added.

Thanks,
Rob



I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice,
instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD bu= t if the WG wants MUST)


Andy



=C2=A0
That would mean that each transport document supporting configured subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver".=C2=A0 =C2=A0And (assuming the "single transport" decision= of IETF100 isn't changed), that the identity "transport" c= ould be leveraged to enforce that only a single transport specific set of credentials are associated with a receiver.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0

A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like:

module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications {

=C2=A0 prefix nsn;

=C2=A0 import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; }
=C2=A0 import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; }
=C2=A0 identity netconf {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 base sn:transport;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 base sn:inline-address;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "NETCONF is used as a transport for= notification messages and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0state change notifications.";=
=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/s= n:receivers/sn:receiver" {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")';=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "This augmentation allows NETCONF s= pecific parameters to be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 exposed for a receiver.";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf netconf-endpoint {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type leafref {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 path "/ncc:netconf-client/nc= c:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" +
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "= ;/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mandatory true;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Remote client which need to= initiate the NETCONF transport if
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 an existing NETCONF session from = that client is not available.";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 }=C2=A0
}

Which results in:
=C2=A0 +--rw subscriptions
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw subscription*
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw transport=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0transport=C2=A0 {configured}?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw receivers
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw receiver*
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw nsn:ne= tconf-endpoint=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leafref

Eric


> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>= 



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--000000000000ce1dfb057261ebc7-- From nobody Wed Aug 1 09:48:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419FD130E44; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:48:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.509 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14HOUC7CI7ab; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40014130DDF; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:48:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=23474; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1533142094; x=1534351694; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=/JIpMCkvfuSwIZYnZeXR1Qxyymielas9RFer5XNg8nE=; b=Ob7dFzsx3z7Z+hM2NSqGKGWeK7EFgNIEcw7KGp2KIouiRy0RDtqPNUw+ Z9GDC5rkbxyBpIlsOrnwDXxxIrgctgjr/LSgg9XUNoEkMPlcLv7yeg65U syIUbGtS/YuwTEJ/2YWE5eZHs9cogDtVAT/PVw2jeU/XNcsb3iIwU+do4 4=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,432,1526342400"; d="scan'208,217";a="5560737" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 01 Aug 2018 16:48:12 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.106] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-106.cisco.com [10.63.23.106]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w71GmC8r021104; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 16:48:12 GMT To: Andy Bierman , "Eric Voit (evoit)" Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <727ae35abd394a85812168615acce2d3@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180729.175356.1841285666617255654.mbj@tail-f.com> <77080682bf90495caec48436453e4750@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180730.204142.1505732335534077415.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180731174827.n5r2jebon45s2cxy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <958669b9-c523-3c43-eca4-fbc255fc1bc8@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:48:11 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AC85DD210534FB1BC0C0994F" Content-Language: en-US X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.63.23.106, dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-106.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 16:48:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AC85DD210534FB1BC0C0994F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 01/08/2018 17:09, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton > wrote: > > > > On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) >> > wrote: >> >> > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM >> > >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund >> wrote: >> > > >> > > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it >> requires that >> > > some transport-specific parameters are configured.  >> However, can we >> > > assume that all transports require configuration >> parameters here? >> > >> > Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters? >> > >> > > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and >> instead >> > > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- >> and since >> > > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented >> can actually >> > > be marked as mandatory. >> > >> > Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this >> is incomplete and >> > unusable without an augmentation". >> >> My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should >> *not* use the empty mandatory choice.  Let me know if I got >> this wrong. >> >> >> I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree >> with Juergen >> and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a >> "MUST augment" use-case very well. > I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a > conformance perspective.  The concept seems similar to an > programmatic interface, abstract class, or even the abstract > identity idea that has been proposed for YANG.  If a server > implements the module but no augments of the choice then it cannot > be configured because the constraint will always fail.  Andy, is > your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is > unusable? > > > That is possible. > I agree with Juergen that a mandatory empty choice clearly indicates > that the module is incomplete > and unusable on its own.  Is that a feature? Yes, making that indication is the whole purpose of adding the "mandatory: true" to the empty choice.  Note, that I see that the "mandatory true" is there to say that every configured subscription must have a transport configured, which if true, doesn't seem unreasonable.  I.e. my main point is that I don't have an issue with this generic YANG design. In this particular instance, I'm also fine if "mandatory: true" is left out, but I don't really agree with writing the equivalent of "mandatory: true" in the description, that seems like a poor compromise. However, this is probably all bike-shedding.  I think that any of the discussed solutions is acceptable, as long as it is obvious to the readers of the YANG modules that a case statement must be provided for it to be useful, and I make the assumption that sane vendors won't enable the "configured" feature, if there is no actual way of configuring usable subscriptions. Perhaps Eric can propose his preferred choice, and we can see if anyone still objects, otherwise maybe we can move on? Thanks, Rob > > Andy > > > I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: > true" in the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the > description because the former is machine readable whilst the > latter is not. > > However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", > but with the choice description to state something along the lines > that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of different > transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unless > at least one transport case statement is available."  But perhaps > some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a > single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible). > > One other observation that could affect the decision here is that > YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision > in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added. > > Thanks, > Rob > > >> >> I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice, >> instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants >> MUST) >> >> >> Andy >> >> >> >> That would mean that each transport document supporting >> configured subscriptions would then augment transport >> specific parameters to >> "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver".  And >> (assuming the "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't >> changed), that the identity "transport" could be leveraged to >> enforce that only a single transport specific set of >> credentials are associated with a receiver. >> >> A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like: >> >> module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications { >> >>   prefix nsn; >> >>   import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; } >>   import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; } >> >>   identity netconf { >>     base sn:transport; >>     base sn:inline-address; >>     description >>       "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification >> messages and >>        state change notifications."; >>   } >> >>   augment >> "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" { >>    when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")'; >>    description >>       "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters >> to be >>       exposed for a receiver."; >>     leaf netconf-endpoint { >>       type leafref { >>         path >> "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" + >>                 "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name"; >>       } >>       mandatory true; >>       description >>         "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF >> transport if >>         an existing NETCONF session from that client is not >> available."; >>     } >>   } >> } >> >> Which results in: >>   +--rw subscriptions >>      +--rw subscription* >>         +--rw transport         transport {configured}? >>         +--rw receivers >>            +--rw receiver* >>               +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint leafref >> >> Eric >> >> >> > /js >> > >> > -- >> > Juergen Schoenwaelder  Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587  Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103        >>  > > >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> yang-doctors mailing list >> yang-doctors@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors >> > > --------------AC85DD210534FB1BC0C0994F Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On 01/08/2018 17:09, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:



On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) <evoit@cisco.com> wrote:
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> >
> > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it requires that
> > some transport-specific parameters are configured.  However, can we
> > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here?
>
> Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters?
>
> > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead
> > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and since
> > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can actually
> > be marked as mandatory.
>
> Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is incomplete and
> unusable without an augmentation".

My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should *not* use the empty mandatory choice.  Let me know if I got this wrong.


I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with Juergen
and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a
"MUST augment" use-case very well.
I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a conformance perspective.  The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, abstract class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed for YANG.  If a server implements the module but no augments of the choice then it cannot be configured because the constraint will always fail.  Andy, is your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is unusable?

That is possible.
I agree with Juergen that a mandatory empty choice clearly indicates that the module is incomplete
and unusable on its own.  Is that a feature?
Yes, making that indication is the whole purpose of adding the "mandatory: true" to the empty choice.  Note, that I see that the "mandatory true" is there to say that every configured subscription must have a transport configured, which if true, doesn't seem unreasonable.  I.e. my main point is that I don't have an issue with this generic YANG design.

In this particular instance, I'm also fine if "mandatory: true" is left out, but I don't really agree with writing the equivalent of "mandatory: true" in the description, that seems like a poor compromise.

However, this is probably all bike-shedding.  I think that any of the discussed solutions is acceptable, as long as it is obvious to the readers of the YANG modules that a case statement must be provided for it to be useful, and I make the assumption that sane vendors won't enable the "configured" feature, if there is no actual way of configuring usable subscriptions.

Perhaps Eric can propose his preferred choice, and we can see if anyone still objects, otherwise maybe we can move on?

Thanks,
Rob


 

Andy
 

I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the description because the former is machine readable whilst the latter is not.

However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", but with the choice description to state something along the lines that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport case statement is available."  But perhaps some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible).

One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added.

Thanks,
Rob



I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice,
instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants MUST)


Andy



 
That would mean that each transport document supporting configured subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver".   And (assuming the "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't changed), that the identity "transport" could be leveraged to enforce that only a single transport specific set of credentials are associated with a receiver.   

A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like:

module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications {

  prefix nsn;

  import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; }
  import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; }

  identity netconf {
    base sn:transport;
    base sn:inline-address;
    description
      "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification messages and
       state change notifications.";
  }

  augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" {
   when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")';   
   description
      "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters to be
      exposed for a receiver.";
    leaf netconf-endpoint {
      type leafref {
        path "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" +
                "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name";
      }
      mandatory true;
      description
        "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF transport if
        an existing NETCONF session from that client is not available.";
    }
  } 
}

Which results in:
  +--rw subscriptions
     +--rw subscription*
        +--rw transport         transport  {configured}?
        +--rw receivers
           +--rw receiver*
              +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint    leafref

Eric


> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>



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--------------AC85DD210534FB1BC0C0994F-- From nobody Wed Aug 1 11:42:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78B0130E51 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 11:42:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DmuE33quShIo for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 11:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B673E130E4C for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id y17-v6so17730874ljy.8 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qerboX9+GO3Tfuya8o1IApSBrJaaulxlCfc+nXSbljE=; b=vzgVo3zghddIa/1f59oOUhSYH0ALT9j2qzIKl+4EysLaoB6blxoZg12gEm+Mwio2Uc s1g6DI9QSaigxLf6Nvf1MQtEFXzZhUc1S7XQDBWH5E5zhUnof0jloNAnbdRdGkJta1Bg jA635YXVnLgFGLdGrLatKWQ0AVDK493uPAKX9ypkVAsE2Ex3aZ+ZuxKZ4YshyX81sODg jIMQdomUwuRsCOCNatGTSq6560Ewdz3ijwoouITNXGhby3po64KZD+ZcoqVaIy2kLvqi 58z2zsL/JBuBm2aMvgY6kvIjf2nzPeUevfA/ubU2mXppXwnuvuxueNrGw6Oh0B5LBlEQ al9A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qerboX9+GO3Tfuya8o1IApSBrJaaulxlCfc+nXSbljE=; b=QE7OXSrNbNPFRMTB+Gb6vVc2r413jvucdn9yUbLSzYpvGdMWT0P2XejBx1zPjaWcMB cgWSV2oplucJBcSpyEXfV+KlJnh3FIzUiYy4uoXmdo2eM9ZmKyhTTyO64pP5j5FaiAaZ NqmqbN+G9UKjS2eH5FCgbAB6/92C2rZ1UdkrCf+8hl0yCpsMeFbURProA23k/C+fov3o jEs/X6J9BpETjz+k1MW84F15XQJ6epg3h50shKCKS3zTlyWG2yjo3KpxgvhOcEnre/z2 Nlq+HyPVVjb0j2JiSTOlaDnGG4OhE9f8fmjONprw5CUqy4dg2XlzilRbYXnHesuQH6BB 971g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEteLBvM0nZcqfzgo2kwy6hHXkJJtZZN8i1uut2GKMbj7ybxBZq t6xJetVlaoV0E7V8m1GxDgXK7C6jKhzJgm2SpBwUeg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcYB8BvJDxIFuvtFehlElVoXEH9ST9Z7WcsUZuh9d4zWhwlQcjQ/mPQpJzhKhyADD/1h5xJM219XA1B4EPvS00= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:2ac3:: with SMTP id q186-v6mr19587584ljq.123.1533148922859; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 11:42:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:aa46:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 11:42:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <958669b9-c523-3c43-eca4-fbc255fc1bc8@cisco.com> References: <727ae35abd394a85812168615acce2d3@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180729.175356.1841285666617255654.mbj@tail-f.com> <77080682bf90495caec48436453e4750@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180730.204142.1505732335534077415.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180731174827.n5r2jebon45s2cxy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> <958669b9-c523-3c43-eca4-fbc255fc1bc8@cisco.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 11:42:01 -0700 Message-ID: To: Robert Wilton Cc: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ef66410572640c70" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 18:42:09 -0000 --000000000000ef66410572640c70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > > > On 01/08/2018 17:09, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > >> >> >> On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) >> wrote: >> >>> > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM >>> > >>> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>> > > >>> > > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it requires that >>> > > some transport-specific parameters are configured. However, can we >>> > > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here? >>> > >>> > Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters? >>> > >>> > > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead >>> > > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and since >>> > > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can >>> actually >>> > > be marked as mandatory. >>> > >>> > Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is >>> incomplete and >>> > unusable without an augmentation". >>> >>> My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should *not* use >>> the empty mandatory choice. Let me know if I got this wrong. >>> >>> >> I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with >> Juergen >> and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a >> "MUST augment" use-case very well. >> >> I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a conformance >> perspective. The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, >> abstract class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed >> for YANG. If a server implements the module but no augments of the choice >> then it cannot be configured because the constraint will always fail. >> Andy, is your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is >> unusable? >> > > That is possible. > I agree with Juergen that a mandatory empty choice clearly indicates that > the module is incomplete > and unusable on its own. Is that a feature? > > Yes, making that indication is the whole purpose of adding the "mandatory: > true" to the empty choice. Note, that I see that the "mandatory true" is > there to say that every configured subscription must have a transport > configured, which if true, doesn't seem unreasonable. I.e. my main point > is that I don't have an issue with this generic YANG design. > > It just seems strange that the model designers are positive the solution belongs in a case-stmt inside this choice. So positive that MUST is in order, which means harm to the Internet will happen if this choice is not provided, with no possibility of any exception ever. That's why I suggested SHOULD in the first place, which would go in the description-stmt. I can imagine a vendor augmenting this choice with a leaf, just to get rid of the validation error. Andy In this particular instance, I'm also fine if "mandatory: true" is left > out, but I don't really agree with writing the equivalent of "mandatory: > true" in the description, that seems like a poor compromise. > > However, this is probably all bike-shedding. I think that any of the > discussed solutions is acceptable, as long as it is obvious to the readers > of the YANG modules that a case statement must be provided for it to be > useful, and I make the assumption that sane vendors won't enable the > "configured" feature, if there is no actual way of configuring usable > subscriptions. > > Perhaps Eric can propose his preferred choice, and we can see if anyone > still objects, otherwise maybe we can move on? > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > > Andy > > >> >> I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in >> the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the description because >> the former is machine readable whilst the latter is not. >> >> However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", but with >> the choice description to state something along the lines that the empty >> choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and >> configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport >> case statement is available." But perhaps some implementation will provide >> the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if >> this is feasible). >> >> One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG >> allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision in a backwards >> compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added. >> >> Thanks, >> Rob >> >> >> >> I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice, >> instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants MUST) >> >> >> Andy >> >> >> >> >> >>> That would mean that each transport document supporting configured >>> subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to >>> "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver". And (assuming the >>> "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't changed), that the identity >>> "transport" could be leveraged to enforce that only a single transport >>> specific set of credentials are associated with a receiver. >>> >>> A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like: >>> >>> module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications { >>> >>> prefix nsn; >>> >>> import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; } >>> import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; } >>> >>> identity netconf { >>> base sn:transport; >>> base sn:inline-address; >>> description >>> "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification messages and >>> state change notifications."; >>> } >>> >>> augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" { >>> when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")'; >>> description >>> "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters to be >>> exposed for a receiver."; >>> leaf netconf-endpoint { >>> type leafref { >>> path "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" + >>> "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name"; >>> } >>> mandatory true; >>> description >>> "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF transport if >>> an existing NETCONF session from that client is not available."; >>> } >>> } >>> } >>> >>> Which results in: >>> +--rw subscriptions >>> +--rw subscription* >>> +--rw transport transport {configured}? >>> +--rw receivers >>> +--rw receiver* >>> +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint leafref >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> > /js >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >>> >>> > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> yang-doctors mailing listyang-doctors@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors >> >> >> > > --000000000000ef66410572640c70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com&g= t; wrote:
=20 =20 =20



On 01/08/2018 17:09= , Andy Bierman wrote:
=20


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:



On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) <<= a href=3D"mailto:evoit@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">evoit@cisco.com>= wrote:
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> >
> > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it requires that
> > some transport-specific parameters are configured.=C2=A0 However, can we
> > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here?
>
> Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters?
>
> > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead
> > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and since
> > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can actually
> > be marked as mandatory.
>
> Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is incomplete and
> unusable without an augmentation".

My read above is the YANG doctor's position i= s that we should *not* use the empty mandatory choice.=C2=A0 Let me know if I got this wrong.

I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with Juergen
and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a
"MUST augment" use-case very well.
I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it i= s OK from a conformance perspective.=C2=A0 The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, abstract class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed for YANG.=C2=A0 If a server implements the module but no augments of the choice then it cannot be configured because the constraint will always fail.=C2=A0 Andy, is you= r concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is unusable?

That is possible.
I agree with Juergen that a mandatory empty choice clearly indicates that the module is incomplete
and unusable on its own.=C2=A0 Is that a feature?
Yes, making that indication is the whole purpose of adding the "mandatory: true" to the empty choice.=C2=A0 Note, that I see= that the "mandatory true" is there to say that every configured subscr= iption must have a transport configured, which if true, doesn't seem unreasonable.=C2=A0 I.e. my main point is that I don't have an issu= e with this generic YANG design.



It just seems= strange that the model designers are positive the solution belongs in a ca= se-stmt inside
this choice.=C2=A0 So positive that MUST is in ord= er, which means harm to the Internet will
happen if this choice i= s not provided, with no possibility of any exception ever.
That&#= 39;s why I suggested SHOULD in the first place, which would go in the descr= iption-stmt.

I can imagine a vendor augmenting thi= s choice with a <not-used/> leaf, just to get rid of the
va= lidation error.


Andy

=
In this particular instance, I'm also fine if "mandatory: true= " is left out, but I don't really agree with writing the equivalent of "mandatory: true" in the description, that seems like a poor compromise.

However, this is probably all bike-shedding.=C2=A0 I think that any of the discussed solutions is acceptable, as long as it is obvious to the readers of the YANG modules that a case statement must be provided for it to be useful, and I make the assumption that sane vendors won't enable the "configured" feature, if there i= s no actual way of configuring usable subscriptions.

Perhaps Eric can propose his preferred choice, and we can see if anyone still objects, otherwise maybe we can move on?

Thanks,
Rob


=C2=A0

Andy
=C2=A0

I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in the choice than "MUST p= rovide an implementation" in the description because the former = is machine readable whilst the latter is not.

However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", but with the choice descriptio= n to state something along the lines that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport case statement is available."=C2= =A0 But perhaps some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible).

One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be = removed in a future revision in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added.

Thanks,
Rob



I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice,
instead of "mandatory true". (I pref= er SHOULD but if the WG wants MUST)


Andy



=C2=A0
That would mean tha= t each transport document supporting configured subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/= receiver".=C2=A0 =C2=A0And (assuming the "single transport&qu= ot; decision of IETF100 isn't changed), that the identity "transport" could be leveraged to enfor= ce that only a single transport specific set of credentials are associated with a receiver.=C2=A0= =C2=A0

A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like:

module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications {

=C2=A0 prefix nsn;

=C2=A0 import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; }=
=C2=A0 import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; }

=C2=A0 identity netconf {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 base sn:transport;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 base sn:inline-address;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "NETCONF is used as a t= ransport for notification messages and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0state change notificat= ions.";
=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscri= ption/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0when 'derived-from(../../../tran= sport, "nsn:netconf")';=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "This augmentation allo= ws NETCONF specific parameters to be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 exposed for a receiver."= ;;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf netconf-endpoint {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type leafref {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 path "/ncc:netco= nf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" +
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mandatory true;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Remote client w= hich need to initiate the NETCONF transport if
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 an existing NETCONF s= ession from that client is not available.";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 }=C2=A0
}

Which results in:
=C2=A0 +--rw subscriptions
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw subscription*
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw transport=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0transport=C2=A0 {configured}?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw receivers
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw re= ceiver*
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leafref

Eric


> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.d= e/>



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--000000000000ef66410572640c70-- From nobody Wed Aug 1 17:00:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D2C130EB8 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:00:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SHAwzsDdEblX for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22a.google.com (mail-lj1-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F92F130ED3 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22a.google.com with SMTP id f8-v6so325921ljk.1 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 17:00:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=e5p4XMuyJqhDZJq5nXVFyLufnOvotus6FF9vZMdExsw=; b=HPGTchtvl+v//pqCtAql6bFYrlwsBHl9Z4BZ6wNfnyAxIuWK4C92qDAO94jUaLfD0f ftTUhxXPo3hSdeli702tm0pVhxALVSFYiY7wYPp9qzoLjnhQ8DddeuSaSTSoUkpsL0B4 g71uUCwsQqVJAXFJA3+8rRzniBblqfFA6kZgfgt2mudzGqhmbZAllzl8IO5DX0hRZsoM 5x3CWBocrazClpn1FO/nJqiWby4ArzUupTDnLr+1MBjKuftLAqbrO0OSsfh250puniMZ sa0J8a0WlLqy5BkKMsgW5/UUkVPPD7hCWlMfPJaWDGheS+d8V97Dx5rzT++hF7/LjdFU zgYA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e5p4XMuyJqhDZJq5nXVFyLufnOvotus6FF9vZMdExsw=; b=VxRg9REMJayWZ6NK0K7sOo8yesOQVYWZGS30jsruWUPKYx09RC/ewvMEkZmoAbho2R RZHcbmwqmmsUnP0c/ifggGAyjH3yDYo5nDn0fPgksTaRwuMzHuEpvm6ze15yeFjNT8vT cIjW19+TKgTNIQccmGatd1ovhIK3pP0+bG3K4nJ5tVX6VSpqUNdl2H9jMTqpvtCPZfn5 rUMlaZyE8NSTMWatkWbbr15oDwMvIWdPI1FOUdXaRqn4/SxcJjUFGgDUh7saKNLM5OxA /BN1fXu1UotiMbaw0hnOr/GuJJbTkgY6Vz8W+jktSgE1nUTExJ01JKeWZKOtGb2I7hC+ xJCw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEdWju1wE2RaLUdfkSQf/F5/F+Kp7vVjlV3vMBf14pYpRD1Qoa3 pIklkNOUztt8lOQgkQiJ6VOcZFXTnSmiN0/rWO2D3w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcXwe5zRtamMR0A68KKQkOvugHp78fNt2lOFkTArHDtr9oqBzl1Dwniqb9/3R6BX6aQFw08Hs+rfbgajG3NSis= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9a16:: with SMTP id o22-v6mr303229lji.17.1533168017534; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 17:00:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:aa46:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:00:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> References: <727ae35abd394a85812168615acce2d3@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180729.175356.1841285666617255654.mbj@tail-f.com> <77080682bf90495caec48436453e4750@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180730.204142.1505732335534077415.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180731174827.n5r2jebon45s2cxy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:00:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: Robert Wilton Cc: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001100520572687fc2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 00:00:25 -0000 --0000000000001100520572687fc2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > > > On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) > wrote: > >> > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM >> > >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> > > >> > > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it requires that >> > > some transport-specific parameters are configured. However, can we >> > > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here? >> > >> > Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters? >> > >> > > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead >> > > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and since >> > > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can actually >> > > be marked as mandatory. >> > >> > Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is >> incomplete and >> > unusable without an augmentation". >> >> My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should *not* use >> the empty mandatory choice. Let me know if I got this wrong. >> >> > I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with Juergen > and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a > "MUST augment" use-case very well. > > I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a conformance > perspective. > It really is not OK, and has never been OK, which is why I think the next version of YANG should try to get this right. As a client developer, I want to know the contract in advance, without any missing clauses. With a self-contained module (only internal + augment + uses) the entire contract is clear (at least module names are specified, maybe not revisions on imports (Ver DT will fix that) A mandatory choice depending on 100% external augments is not self-contained. It is not a complete contract. IMO, the way to fix it is to expand the conformance for YANG modules so that packages could be specified, or perhaps virtual external dependencies. YANG catalog says what a vendor does implement. YANG Conformance says what a vendor is supposed to implement. The client developer needs to know both. Andy > The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, abstract class, or > even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed for YANG. If a > server implements the module but no augments of the choice then it cannot > be configured because the constraint will always fail. Andy, is your > concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is unusable? > > > I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in > the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the description because > the former is machine readable whilst the latter is not. > > However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", but with > the choice description to state something along the lines that the empty > choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and > configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport > case statement is available." But perhaps some implementation will provide > the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if > this is feasible). > > One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG > allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision in a backwards > compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added. > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice, > instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants MUST) > > > Andy > > > > > >> That would mean that each transport document supporting configured >> subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to >> "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver". And (assuming the >> "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't changed), that the identity >> "transport" could be leveraged to enforce that only a single transport >> specific set of credentials are associated with a receiver. >> >> A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like: >> >> module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications { >> >> prefix nsn; >> >> import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; } >> import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; } >> >> identity netconf { >> base sn:transport; >> base sn:inline-address; >> description >> "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification messages and >> state change notifications."; >> } >> >> augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" { >> when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")'; >> description >> "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters to be >> exposed for a receiver."; >> leaf netconf-endpoint { >> type leafref { >> path "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" + >> "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name"; >> } >> mandatory true; >> description >> "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF transport if >> an existing NETCONF session from that client is not available."; >> } >> } >> } >> >> Which results in: >> +--rw subscriptions >> +--rw subscription* >> +--rw transport transport {configured}? >> +--rw receivers >> +--rw receiver* >> +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint leafref >> >> Eric >> >> >> > /js >> > >> > -- >> > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing listyang-doctors@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > > > --0000000000001100520572687fc2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com&g= t; wrote:
=20 =20 =20



On 31/07/2018 21:3= 1, Andy Bierman wrote:
=20


On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) <evoit@cisco.com> wrote:
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> >
> > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it requires that
> > some transport-specific parameters are configured.=C2=A0 However, can we
> > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here?
>
> Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters?
>
> > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead
> > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and since
> > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can actually
> > be marked as mandatory.
>
> Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is incomplete and
> unusable without an augmentation".

My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should *not* use the empty mandatory choice.=C2=A0 Let me kno= w if I got this wrong.


I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with Juergen
and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a
"MUST augment" use-case very well.
I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a conformance perspective.=C2=A0

It really is not OK, and has never been OK, which is why I thi= nk the next version of YANG
should try to get this right.

As a client developer, I want to know the contract in adv= ance, without any missing clauses.
With a self-contained module (= only internal + augment + uses) the entire contract is clear
(at = least module names are specified, maybe not revisions on imports =C2=A0(Ver= DT will fix that)

A mandatory choice depending on= 100% external augments is not self-contained.
It is not a comple= te contract.

IMO, the way to fix it is to expand t= he conformance for YANG modules so that packages
could be specifi= ed, or perhaps virtual external dependencies. YANG catalog says what a vend= or
does implement. YANG Conformance says what a vendor is suppose= d to implement.
The client developer needs to know both.


Andy

=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Th= e concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, abstract class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed for YANG.=C2=A0 If a server implements the module but no augments of the choice then it cannot be configured because the constraint will always fail.=C2=A0 Andy, is your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is unusable?



=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in the choice than "MUST provide an implementation"= ; in the description because the former is machine readable whilst the latter is not.

However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true&quo= t;, but with the choice description to state something along the lines that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport case statement is available."=C2=A0 But perhap= s some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible).

One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revis= ion in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added.

Thanks,
Rob



I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice,
instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD bu= t if the WG wants MUST)


Andy



=C2=A0
That would mean that each transport document supporting configured subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver".=C2=A0 =C2=A0And (assuming the "single transport" decision= of IETF100 isn't changed), that the identity "transport" c= ould be leveraged to enforce that only a single transport specific set of credentials are associated with a receiver.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0

A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like:

module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications {

=C2=A0 prefix nsn;

=C2=A0 import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; }
=C2=A0 import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; }
=C2=A0 identity netconf {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 base sn:transport;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 base sn:inline-address;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "NETCONF is used as a transport for= notification messages and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0state change notifications.";=
=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/s= n:receivers/sn:receiver" {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")';=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "This augmentation allows NETCONF s= pecific parameters to be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 exposed for a receiver.";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf netconf-endpoint {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type leafref {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 path "/ncc:netconf-client/nc= c:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" +
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "= ;/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mandatory true;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Remote client which need to= initiate the NETCONF transport if
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 an existing NETCONF session from = that client is not available.";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 }=C2=A0
}

Which results in:
=C2=A0 +--rw subscriptions
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw subscription*
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw transport=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0transport=C2=A0 {configured}?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw receivers
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw receiver*
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw nsn:ne= tconf-endpoint=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leafref

Eric


> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>= 



_______________________________________________
yang-doctors mailing list
yang-doctors@ietf.org
https://www.iet=
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SMTP id w69-v6mr466644lje.110.1533174124854; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 18:42:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:aa46:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 18:42:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <91F96417-7820-42C0-AC6F-3A21694B7A95@juniper.net> References: <727ae35abd394a85812168615acce2d3@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180729.175356.1841285666617255654.mbj@tail-f.com> <77080682bf90495caec48436453e4750@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180730.204142.1505732335534077415.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180731174827.n5r2jebon45s2cxy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> <958669b9-c523-3c43-eca4-fbc255fc1bc8@cisco.com> <91F96417-7820-42C0-AC6F-3A21694B7A95@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 18:42:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Robert Wilton , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "Eric Voit (evoit)" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000175191057269eb96" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 01:42:09 -0000 --000000000000175191057269eb96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > It just seems strange that the model designers are positive the solution > belongs in a > > > case-stmt inside this choice. So positive that MUST is in order, which > means harm > > > to the Internet will happen if this choice is not provided, with no > possibility of any > > > exception ever. > > > > Disagree. As Robert pointed out, the yang update rules allow mandatory > true to > > become mandatory false. In my view, choosing to do the "mandatory true" > now > > is the conservative choice. > > > > PS: I do not believe it is possible to have a receiver that does not > define a transport. > > If that were allowed, then it would be vendor magic. > > > OK -- I do think it is a huge burden for a vendor to provide an augment, even if it is just to indicate "my real transport config is over there or it is not in YANG". > Kent // contributor > > > Andy --000000000000175191057269eb96 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net= > wrote:

=C2=A0

> It just seems strange that the mode= l designers are positive the solution belongs in a

> case-stmt inside this choice.=C2=A0= So positive that MUST is in order, which means harm

> to the Internet will happen if this= choice is not provided, with no possibility of any

> =C2=A0exception ever.=

=C2=A0

Disagree.=C2=A0 As Robert pointed out, t= he yang update rules allow mandatory true to

become mandatory false.=C2=A0 In my view= , choosing to do the "mandatory true" now

is the conservative choice.

=C2=A0

PS: I do not believe it is possible to h= ave a receiver that does not define a transport.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If = that were allowed, then it would be vendor magic.

=C2=A0



OK -- I do think it is a = huge burden for a vendor to provide an augment,
even if it is jus= t to indicate "my real transport config is over there
or it = is not in YANG".

=C2=A0

Kent // contributor=

=C2=A0


Andy

--000000000000175191057269eb96-- From nobody Thu Aug 2 02:07:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F70130EF3 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 02:07:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KyJrGrCtUY65 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 02:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-128.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-128.mimecast.com [63.128.21.128]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64FEE130E19 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 02:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ex-hc2.corp.adtran.com (ex-hc3.adtran.com [76.164.174.83]) (Using TLS) by us-smtp-1.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-232-OtCPFnPCPDyrKq5XjvTNXw-1; Thu, 02 Aug 2018 05:07:46 -0400 Received: from ex-mb1.corp.adtran.com ([fe80::51a3:972d:5f16:9952]) by ex-hc2.corp.adtran.com ([fe80::a019:449b:3f62:28e5%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 04:07:44 -0500 From: NICK HANCOCK To: Ariel Otilibili Anieli , "Beauville, Yves (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] configuration models status and timeline Thread-Index: AQHUHqMtUr4n/rFpCkSPbMCiwjJcf6SVZzsAgAAyEoCAAJwsAIAAyesAgBASZ4CABS6AUA== Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:07:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20180718112108.hqgetzfebhqpdpsk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20180718150228.e2vcccd34sivmz3h@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BBDEF0C@dggeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2b52b279-9f9a-45f0-fa86-6931d0393274@nokia.com> <20180729224921.9u6y9jyx0gos0swg@webmail.eurecom.fr> In-Reply-To: <20180729224921.9u6y9jyx0gos0swg@webmail.eurecom.fr> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-titus-metadata-40: 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 x-originating-ip: [172.20.60.220] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MC-Unique: OtCPFnPCPDyrKq5XjvTNXw-1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BD6D193629F47C479266C0985F16AAC7011E9F839Cexmb1corpadtr_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] configuration models status and timeline X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 09:07:54 -0000 --_000_BD6D193629F47C479266C0985F16AAC7011E9F839Cexmb1corpadtr_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ariel, To quote RFC 6241 Section 6.4.2: 6.4.2. Empty Filter An empty filter will select nothing because no content match or selection nodes are present. This is not an error. The element's "type" attribute used in these examples is discussed further in Section 7.1. My understanding is that a without a subtree filter will retrieve the= whole configuration, but a with an empty subtree filter will return = nothing. This is exactly the behaviour we see in our NETCONF server. This is lightwe= ight and requires no protocol changes. Or am I missing something? Regards Nick From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ariel Otilibil= i Anieli Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2018 10:49 PM To: Beauville, Yves (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] configuration models status and timeline Hi Yves, Below my comments. Regards, Ariel Quoting "Beauville, Yves (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" : > Kent, Andy and Rohit, > > Could we use a get request with an empty filter, as defined in section > 6.4.2 > of RFC6241? > > This looks like the smallest and less impacting RPC defined in the RFC. > > Isn't it a good candidate for an aliveness check? An empty filter retrieves the whole configuration; which can take a lot space and time. I would rather use, as filter of the RPC 'get', the 'current-datetime' or the 'boot-datetime'. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7317#section-3.2 > > Yves > > On 19-07-18 05:20, Rohit R Ranade wrote: >> >> *From:*Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andy Bie= rman >> *Sent:* 18 July 2018 23:32 >> *To:* Juergen Schoenwaelder ; >> Kent Watsen ; netconf@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Netconf] configuration models status and timeline >> >> >> >> Ideally, the keep alive would just be handled at the session >> layer. I am >> not sure where the NC spec allows >> >> C: > C: xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"/> >> S: > S: xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"/> >> >> otherwise one could define a noop RPC (I am not sure invoking a fake >> edit-config is necessarily a good idea). >> >> I prefer an RPC for this purpose. >> >> It would be better if the session counters were not affected, >> >> but that would require protocol changes. >> >> Causing error counters to increment for keep-alives is bad. >> >> */[Rohit R Ranade] /*+1 >> >> Andy >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- This message was sent using EURECOM Webmail: http://webmail.eurecom.fr _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --_000_BD6D193629F47C479266C0985F16AAC7011E9F839Cexmb1corpadtr_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ariel,

 <= /p>

To quote RFC 6241 Section= 6.4.2:

 <= /p>

6.4.2. Empty Filter

An empty filter will select nothing<= /span> because no content match or

selection nodes are present. This is not an = error. The <filter>

element’s "type" attribute u= sed in these examples is discussed

further in Section 7.1.

 

<rpc message-id=3D"101"

xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf= :base:1.0">

<get>

<filter type=3D"subtree">

</filter>

</get>

</rpc>

 

<rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"

xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf= :base:1.0">

<data>

</data>

</rpc-reply>

 <= /p>

My understanding is that = a <get> without a subtree filter will retrieve the whole configuratio= n, but a <get> with an empty subtree filter will return nothing.=

This is exactly the behav= iour we see in our NETCONF server. This is lightweight and requires no prot= ocol changes. Or am I missing something?

 <= /p>

Regards=

Nick

 <= /p>

From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ariel Otilibili Anieli
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2018 10:49 PM
To: Beauville, Yves (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
Cc: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netconf] configuration models status and timeline=

 

Hi Yves,

Below my comments.

Regards,
Ariel

Quoting "Beauville, Yves (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <yves.beauville= @nokia.com>:

> Kent, Andy and Rohit,
>
> Could we use a get request with an empty filter, as defined in section=
> 6.4.2 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6241#section-6.4.2> of RFC6241?
>
> This looks like the smallest and less impacting RPC defined in the RFC= .
>
> Isn't it a good candidate for an aliveness check?
An empty filter retrieves the whole configuration; which can take a
lot space and time.

I would rather use, as filter of the RPC 'get', the 'current-datetime'
or the 'boot-datetime'.

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7317#section-3.2
>
> Yves
>
> On 19-07-18 05:20, Rohit R Ranade wrote:
>>
>> *From:*Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *An= dy Bierman
>> *Sent:* 18 July 2018 23:32
>> *To:* Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.= de>;
>> Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>; netconf@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Netconf] configuration models status and timeline<= br> >>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Ideally, the keep alive would just be handled at the session
>> layer. I am
>> not sure where the NC spec allows
>>
>> C: <rpc message-id=3D"101"
>> C: xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"/>= ;
>> S: <rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
>> S: xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"/>= ;
>>
>> otherwise one could define a noop RPC (I am not sure invoking a fa= ke
>> edit-config is necessarily a good idea).
>>
>> I prefer an <no-op> RPC for this purpose.
>>
>> It would be better if the session counters were not affected,
>>
>> but that would require protocol changes.
>>
>> Causing error counters to increment for keep-alives is bad.
>>
>> */[Rohit R Ranade] /*+1
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netconf mailing list
>> Netconf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf



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--_000_BD6D193629F47C479266C0985F16AAC7011E9F839Cexmb1corpadtr_-- From nobody Thu Aug 2 02:13:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF187130EFA; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 02:13:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z_97-aLyiarN; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 02:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (anna.eecs.jacobs-university.de [IPv6:2001:638:709:5::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D524B130EF8; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 02:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id D6F8323A9EC5; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 11:13:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 11:13:48 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Lou Berger Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani , Ignas Bagdonas , netconf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, netconf-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180802091348.5j3zpf45nzulszva@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Lou Berger , Mahesh Jethanandani , Ignas Bagdonas , netconf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, netconf-chairs@ietf.org References: <152899335818.26447.7759890925422555917.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9ad91163-ca97-5db1-1f6d-e365f819db10@labn.net> <5363EB75-95BC-4407-9BFA-3D97EAC440D3@gmail.com> <114e3335-a976-4a84-58e0-8817a06324c1@labn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <114e3335-a976-4a84-58e0-8817a06324c1@labn.net> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call: (YANG Library) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 09:13:52 -0000 On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 04:19:41PM -0400, Lou Berger wrote: > All this means is that  draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis should note it updates > RFC 7950 in the header and abstract... I think there are different interpretations what the Updates: header means. And in this case, the "update" is even conditional, i.e., you have to implement rfc7895bis if you do implement NMDA - but if you don't, then rfc7895 still works just fine. > Your read of the update to RFC7950 is that it should now reference > rfc7895bis in Section 5.6.4. Is that correct? How is that different > from 7895bis obsoleting 7895, and thus all references to 7895 should > now be to 7895bis? It is conditional to the implementation of NMDA. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Aug 2 03:39:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E74C4130E0F; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 03:39:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f1akfO3EfrgN; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 03:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5EDB130DFA; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 03:39:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=26316; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1533206382; x=1534415982; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=4K/MlFp3ysenDTCuPJpPPa+DT9fK/7GEuUx1HfM9HBg=; b=QtB96u/8j08c7VVKEJNfvFp2a4ZnTqyycOrGFNxUInXW0sAHLgZnp43D 7V+08uu081FQ6P5XWGRcZRbigW3n39MSH4Hq/kyUqGfboGWMA9YInO8Qq b9wt50SJH8sXWvjwB0/Hj6i7yDpzXMYJT2gwI5YXG4Pkq6HpuFQiGlZux c=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,435,1526342400"; d="scan'208,217";a="5519398" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 02 Aug 2018 10:39:40 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.106] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-106.cisco.com [10.63.23.106]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w72Ade6T003048; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 10:39:40 GMT To: Andy Bierman Cc: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <727ae35abd394a85812168615acce2d3@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180729.175356.1841285666617255654.mbj@tail-f.com> <77080682bf90495caec48436453e4750@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180730.204142.1505732335534077415.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180731174827.n5r2jebon45s2cxy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 11:39:40 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------62BC7301CDC660240564367D" Content-Language: en-US X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.63.23.106, dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-106.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 10:39:47 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------62BC7301CDC660240564367D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 02/08/2018 01:00, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton > wrote: > > > > On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) >> > wrote: >> >> > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM >> > >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund >> wrote: >> > > >> > > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it >> requires that >> > > some transport-specific parameters are configured.  >> However, can we >> > > assume that all transports require configuration >> parameters here? >> > >> > Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters? >> > >> > > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and >> instead >> > > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- >> and since >> > > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented >> can actually >> > > be marked as mandatory. >> > >> > Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this >> is incomplete and >> > unusable without an augmentation". >> >> My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should >> *not* use the empty mandatory choice.  Let me know if I got >> this wrong. >> >> >> I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree >> with Juergen >> and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a >> "MUST augment" use-case very well. > I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a > conformance perspective. > > > > It really is not OK, and has never been OK, which is why I think the > next version of YANG > should try to get this right. > > As a client developer, I want to know the contract in advance, without > any missing clauses. > With a self-contained module (only internal + augment + uses) the > entire contract is clear > (at least module names are specified, maybe not revisions on imports >  (Ver DT will fix that) > > A mandatory choice depending on 100% external augments is not > self-contained. > It is not a complete contract. > > IMO, the way to fix it is to expand the conformance for YANG modules > so that packages > could be specified, or perhaps virtual external dependencies. YANG > catalog says what a vendor > does implement. YANG Conformance says what a vendor is supposed to > implement. > The client developer needs to know both. So, this is moving away from Eric's issue. Yes, I agree that we need to define something like packages. Although I can partly see conformance at being at the module level, I'm not convinced that is most useful.  Instead, once you consider deviations and data node lifecycles, then I think that it is more helpful to consider conformance at the schema (and per data-node) level. In the case of schema, I mean the combination of (a set of implemented module revisions (including deviations), import-only module revisions, supported features, supported datastores).  I.e. the information that is being exposed via YANG libary(-bis). So, for a client to check whether a device will accept its configuration, it constructs a schema of all data nodes it is configuring/accessing, along with their types and constraints, and then compares every data node in the schema against the schema supported by the device (yes, I agree that the schema should be available up front rather than only via YANG library, which is similar to Balazs's draft relating to YANG instance data). I anticipate that your reaction might be to say that this sounds very complicated, but at the end of the day, I think that this is probably the simplest robust way of ensuring compatibility, once you take deviations, versioning, features all into account. Thanks, Rob > > > Andy > > The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, abstract > class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed > for YANG.  If a server implements the module but no augments of > the choice then it cannot be configured because the constraint > will always fail.  Andy, is your concern that tooling will warn > that part of the model is unusable? > > > > I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: > true" in the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the > description because the former is machine readable whilst the > latter is not. > > However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", > but with the choice description to state something along the lines > that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of different > transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unless > at least one transport case statement is available."  But perhaps > some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a > single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible). > > One other observation that could affect the decision here is that > YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision > in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added. > > Thanks, > Rob > > >> >> I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice, >> instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants >> MUST) >> >> >> Andy >> >> >> >> That would mean that each transport document supporting >> configured subscriptions would then augment transport >> specific parameters to >> "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver".  And >> (assuming the "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't >> changed), that the identity "transport" could be leveraged to >> enforce that only a single transport specific set of >> credentials are associated with a receiver. >> >> A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like: >> >> module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications { >> >>   prefix nsn; >> >>   import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; } >>   import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; } >> >>   identity netconf { >>     base sn:transport; >>     base sn:inline-address; >>     description >>       "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification >> messages and >>        state change notifications."; >>   } >> >>   augment >> "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" { >>    when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")'; >>    description >>       "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters >> to be >>       exposed for a receiver."; >>     leaf netconf-endpoint { >>       type leafref { >>         path >> "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" + >>                 "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name"; >>       } >>       mandatory true; >>       description >>         "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF >> transport if >>         an existing NETCONF session from that client is not >> available."; >>     } >>   } >> } >> >> Which results in: >>   +--rw subscriptions >>      +--rw subscription* >>         +--rw transport         transport {configured}? >>         +--rw receivers >>            +--rw receiver* >>               +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint leafref >> >> Eric >> >> >> > /js >> > >> > -- >> > Juergen Schoenwaelder  Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587  Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103        >>  > > >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> yang-doctors mailing list >> yang-doctors@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors >> > > --------------62BC7301CDC660240564367D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On 02/08/2018 01:00, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:



On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) <evoit@cisco.com> wrote:
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> >
> > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it requires that
> > some transport-specific parameters are configured.  However, can we
> > assume that all transports require configuration parameters here?
>
> Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters?
>
> > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and instead
> > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- and since
> > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented can actually
> > be marked as mandatory.
>
> Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this is incomplete and
> unusable without an augmentation".

My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should *not* use the empty mandatory choice.  Let me know if I got this wrong.


I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree with Juergen
and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a
"MUST augment" use-case very well.
I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a conformance perspective. 


It really is not OK, and has never been OK, which is why I think the next version of YANG
should try to get this right.

As a client developer, I want to know the contract in advance, without any missing clauses.
With a self-contained module (only internal + augment + uses) the entire contract is clear
(at least module names are specified, maybe not revisions on imports  (Ver DT will fix that)

A mandatory choice depending on 100% external augments is not self-contained.
It is not a complete contract.

IMO, the way to fix it is to expand the conformance for YANG modules so that packages
could be specified, or perhaps virtual external dependencies. YANG catalog says what a vendor
does implement. YANG Conformance says what a vendor is supposed to implement.
The client developer needs to know both.
So, this is moving away from Eric's issue.

Yes, I agree that we need to define something like packages.

Although I can partly see conformance at being at the module level, I'm not convinced that is most useful.  Instead, once you consider deviations and data node lifecycles, then I think that it is more helpful to consider conformance at the schema (and per data-node) level.

In the case of schema, I mean the combination of (a set of implemented module revisions (including deviations), import-only module revisions, supported features, supported datastores).  I.e. the information that is being exposed via YANG libary(-bis).

So, for a client to check whether a device will accept its configuration, it constructs a schema of all data nodes it is configuring/accessing, along with their types and constraints, and then compares every data node in the schema against the schema supported by the device (yes, I agree that the schema should be available up front rather than only via YANG library, which is similar to Balazs's draft relating to YANG instance data).

I anticipate that your reaction might be to say that this sounds very complicated, but at the end of the day, I think that this is probably the simplest robust way of ensuring compatibility, once you take deviations, versioning, features all into account.

Thanks,
Rob




Andy

 
The concept seems similar to an programmatic interface, abstract class, or even the abstract identity idea that has been proposed for YANG.  If a server implements the module but no augments of the choice then it cannot be configured because the constraint will always fail.  Andy, is your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is unusable?



 
I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: true" in the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the description because the former is machine readable whilst the latter is not.

However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", but with the choice description to state something along the lines that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of different transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unless at least one transport case statement is available."  But perhaps some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible).

One other observation that could affect the decision here is that YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added.

Thanks,
Rob



I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice,
instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants MUST)


Andy



 
That would mean that each transport document supporting configured subscriptions would then augment transport specific parameters to "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver".   And (assuming the "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't changed), that the identity "transport" could be leveraged to enforce that only a single transport specific set of credentials are associated with a receiver.   

A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like:

module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications {

  prefix nsn;

  import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; }
  import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; }

  identity netconf {
    base sn:transport;
    base sn:inline-address;
    description
      "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification messages and
       state change notifications.";
  }

  augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" {
   when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")';   
   description
      "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters to be
      exposed for a receiver.";
    leaf netconf-endpoint {
      type leafref {
        path "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" +
                "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name";
      }
      mandatory true;
      description
        "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF transport if
        an existing NETCONF session from that client is not available.";
    }
  } 
}

Which results in:
  +--rw subscriptions
     +--rw subscription*
        +--rw transport         transport  {configured}?
        +--rw receivers
           +--rw receiver*
              +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint    leafref

Eric


> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>



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Thread-Index: AQHUJ1ReOwlfbH+3hkGPLp9Bm3apCaSn4DUwgAB+GwCAAYN0gP//xXiQgABoMwCAAUbTgIAAAjeAgAAKyYCAAB/OgIAAc1OAgAACCICAAHiS8A== Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 13:05:07 +0000 Message-ID: <359c6f2db6b0451086be0651d6cbe7bd@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <727ae35abd394a85812168615acce2d3@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180729.175356.1841285666617255654.mbj@tail-f.com> <77080682bf90495caec48436453e4750@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180730.204142.1505732335534077415.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180731174827.n5r2jebon45s2cxy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> <958669b9-c523-3c43-eca4-fbc255fc1bc8@cisco.com> <91F96417-7820-42C0-AC6F-3A21694B7A95@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.234] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_359c6f2db6b0451086be0651d6cbe7bdXCHRTP013ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.146, xch-rtp-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? 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draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, netconf-chairs@ietf.org References: <152899335818.26447.7759890925422555917.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9ad91163-ca97-5db1-1f6d-e365f819db10@labn.net> <5363EB75-95BC-4407-9BFA-3D97EAC440D3@gmail.com> <114e3335-a976-4a84-58e0-8817a06324c1@labn.net> <20180802091348.5j3zpf45nzulszva@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <69b94407-c6cb-b53b-fe9b-e24503ae2f35@labn.net> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:12:53 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180802091348.5j3zpf45nzulszva@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.106.211 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1flDPW-003tsA-HX X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-106-211.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.106.211]:55474 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 3 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call: (YANG Library) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 13:21:21 -0000 Sorry about the top post, but in writing the response I realized it would be good to shift the discussion (and my position) a little. I think the core of this/my issue is having duplication of requirements, i.e.: in ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis Updates: All NETCONF servers supporting YANG 1.1 [RFC7950 ] are required to support YANG Library (seeSection 5.6.4 of RFC 7950 ). NETCONF servers implementing the NETCONF extensions to support the NMDA [I-D.ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf ] MUST implement at least the version of the YANG library defined in this document.   Similarly, all RESTCONF servers are required to support YANG Library (seeSection 10 of RFC 8040 ). RESTCONF servers implementing the RESTCONF extensions to support the NMDA [I-D.ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf ] MUST implement at least the version of the YANG library defined in this document. in ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf, related to the first part:     Updates: 6241, 7950    This document also updates [RFC7950] in order to enable NETCONF    clients to both discover which datastores are supported by the    NETCONF server, as well as determine which modules are supported in    each datastore.  The update requires NETCONF servers implementing the    NMDA to support [I-D.ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis]. in ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf, related to the second part of rfc7895bis     Updates: 8040    This document updates [RFC8040] in order to enable RESTCONF clients    to discover which datastores are supported by the RESTCONF server, as    well as determine which modules are supported in each datastore and,    finally, to interact with all the datastores supported by the NMDA.    Specifically, the update introduces new datastore resources, adds a    new query parameter, and requires the usage of    [I-D.ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis] by RESTCONF servers implementing the    NMDA. So the above is problematic in a few ways. 1.  The same requirement is basically spread across multiple documents, one or the other should contain the requirement, not both. 2. The position reflected by the current ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf text is that it is the authoritative origination of the 7950 impacting text, yet this text uses "require" not "REQUIRES".  So this lead me to the conclusion that rfc7895bis is the authoritative source of the update -- and my comment. 3. (not previously noted) ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf has basically the same comment WRT 8040.  It says its the source of the authoritative 8040 impacting text yet the conformance language is in is rfc7895bis I think there are two ways to address this: a) Keep the conformance language in rfc7895bis and note that it Updates 7950 *and* 8040.  nmda-netconf and nmda-restconf would also be modified to remove the update notation and related text. b) move the quoted language from rfc7895bis to nmda-netconf and nmda-restconf, and leave the updates as is I think either work. While not what I originally suggested, I think option 2 is a bit cleaner as it keeps the protocol related text in a protocol document vs in a module definition document. See below for some specific responses below. On 8/2/2018 5:13 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 04:19:41PM -0400, Lou Berger wrote: > >> All this means is that  draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis should note it updates >> RFC 7950 in the header and abstract... > I think there are different interpretations what the Updates: header > means. And in this case, the "update" is even conditional, i.e., you > have to implement rfc7895bis if you do implement NMDA - but if you > don't, then rfc7895 still works just fine. The point of the updates field is to allow someone implementing a spec to know about other specs that impact implementation.  Optional or otherwise.  It lets the implementor make an informed choice without knowing the whole history or context of an RFC's writing.  I think the update notation belongs with the conformance language that impacts the implementation is in this document this is where the updates belong -- wherever that ends up. FWIW Getting these update/obsolete fields wrong really hurts those new to the technology. >> Your read of the update to RFC7950 is that it should now reference >> rfc7895bis in Section 5.6.4. Is that correct? How is that different >> from 7895bis obsoleting 7895, and thus all references to 7895 should >> now be to 7895bis? > It is conditional to the implementation of NMDA. I don't follow you here. but I suspect it's covered by my top post. 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<024DE375-E3F0-4255-AC53-2D17C77D6E06@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 08:25:14 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Alexander Clemm , Martin Bjorklund , "evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f9ec540572756a03" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 15:25:21 -0000 --000000000000f9ec540572756a03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:11 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > I am sympathetic to Eric's and Einar's observation that a given > subscription, having multiple receivers, is likely to have all the > receivers using the same transport and encoding. > > The thought behind this is that, assuming there are multiple distinct > applications, each application will selfishly create its own subscription= ; > it will not try to see if there is another existing subscription that > matches its needs. > > Thus, in effect, the *only* purpose for there being a *list* of receivers > is for enabling high availability, which I think is okay. I wish the tex= t > was clearer about this objective. > > What I object to is the way that this restriction is currently implemente= d > using identities, which requires the "notif" models to do something right= . > Better would be a "must" expression that says the count of the descendant= s > is exactly one. Can you do that? > Is there a way to make multiple receivers per subscription optional-to-implement (another YANG feature?) Anyone implementing configured subscriptions is forced to support multiple receivers. Does that mean it is harmful to the Internet if only 1 receiver per subscription is allowed? I was told this feature is required because it is too much of a burden on the client to create a separate subscription for each receiver. IMO this is nonsense, but I won't implement configured subscriptions anyway. > Kent // contributor > > Andy > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D original message =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > I am wondering why we are reopening the issue of multiple > encodings/transports per receiver vs per subscription? > > Having single transport / encoding per subscription is a simpler design > (feedback from implementors; simplifies dealing with any error conditions > due to encoding that would affect one receiver but not others in the same > subscription; Einar has explained this in the past) and, while I am in > general a fan of general design, there does not seem to be business > requirements and scenarios that demand this - and even if there were, thi= s > would constitute merely an optimization (since if you have different > receivers who want different encodings/tranport, you can always simply > create another subscription). > > If in the future there is really desire to add this as an additional > feature, we can put this into a -bis version. (Adding stuff will be easi= er > than taking things away.) Let's just be done. > > --- Alex > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin > > Bjorklund > > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:51 AM > > To: kwatsen@juniper.net > > Cc: evoit=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? > > > > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > [removing yang-doctors list, and updating subject line accordingly] > > > > > > > > > >> > Why do all receivers of a subscription have to use the same > > transport? > > > >> > > > >> This was something that Martin and Eric worked out before we did > > > >> the first Last Call. Eric doesn't seem to know the particular > > > >> reason, other than Martin seems to think it=E2=80=99s easier. > > > > > > > > No; I personally also prefer a design where each receiver has its > > > > own transport + encoding. > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > The original model had a common "encoding" for all receivers, and > > > > then a receiver-specific transport - I think this is even worse, > > > > > > Agreed. > > > > > > > > > > and suggested to have transport + encoding defined together > > > > preferrably receiver-specifc or else common for all receivers. > > > > > > > > If the WG now believes that the transport + encoding should be done > > > > per receiver, this should be fairly easy to change. > > > > > > I also prefer per receiver, and I think that doing so will simplify > > > the model, as neither the mandatory "transport" nor the [not > > > mandatory?] "encoding" leaves have to be specified. > > > > > > In particular, my thoughts are that the "notif" model should provide > > > for the encoding selection, if needed (it's not needed for NETCONF, o= r > > > COAP I imagine). > > > > I agree. I think this would be a cleaner design. > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > In the case of RESTCONF, we could update the ietf-restconf-client and > > > ietf-restconf-server models to include an "encodings" leaf-list, to > > > configure the RESTCONF server which encodings it should support. We > > > likely need to do something similar to configure which HTTP versions > > > should be supported. Now, in a general RC server, the server could > > > support both but, if the restconf-notif draft has its own list of > > > restconf-servers (i.e., it uses the "restconf-server-grouping" itself= , > > > see my July 19 email for a YANG example), then a constraint could be > > > added limiting the number "supported" to just one. Thus, when the RC > > > server reboots, and connects to the receiver and *automatically* (no > > > client RPC) starts pushing notifications, it can know what encoding t= o > > > use. > > > > > > I'm still unsure if its legal for an RC server to automatically push > > > notifications without a client-initiated RPC of any sort, and I'm als= o > > > uncertain if supporting *configured* subscriptions for NC or RC is > > > needed (see my message July 20 email). So, some of this may work > > > itself out as we progress. > > > > > > I know that we're not defining the *configured* notif drafts in this > > > first effort, the we are publishing the SN draft with a configuration > > > model, my only concern now is configuration model presented in the SN > > > draft. > > > > > > > > > Kent // contributor > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www. > ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netconf&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBX= eMK- > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3D9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=3D > Mh0UuTFvh9TpmFzzMMON07C4WQIwjRJLM-OT62OJZe4&s=3DPPy3uCUVVJa- > GwAfmUexA9cX31IWHhlMHlAGMcPdnyY&e=3D > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --000000000000f9ec540572756a03 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:11 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net= > wrote:

I am sympathetic to Eric's and Einar's observation that a given sub= scription, having multiple receivers, is likely to have all the receivers u= sing the same transport and encoding.

The thought behind this is that, assuming there are multiple distinct appli= cations, each application will selfishly create its own subscription; it wi= ll not try to see if there is another existing subscription that matches it= s needs.

Thus, in effect, the *only* purpose for there being a *list* of receivers i= s for enabling high availability, which I think is okay.=C2=A0 I wish the t= ext was clearer about this objective.

What I object to is the way that this restriction is currently implemented = using identities, which requires the "notif" models to do somethi= ng right.=C2=A0 Better would be a "must" expression that says the= count of the descendants is exactly one.=C2=A0 Can you do that?


Is there a way to make multiple re= ceivers per subscription optional-to-implement
(another YANG feat= ure?)

Anyone implementing configured subscriptions= is forced to support multiple receivers.
Does that mean it is ha= rmful to the Internet if only 1 receiver per subscription is allowed?
=

I was told this feature is required because it is too m= uch of a burden on the client to
create a separate subscription f= or each receiver.=C2=A0 IMO this is nonsense, but I won't
imp= lement configured subscriptions anyway.


=

Kent // contributor



Andy


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D original message =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I am wondering why we are reopening the issue of multiple encodings/transpo= rts per receiver vs per subscription?=C2=A0

Having single transport / encoding per subscription is a simpler design (fe= edback from implementors; simplifies dealing with any error conditions due = to encoding that would affect one receiver but not others in the same subsc= ription; Einar has explained this in the past) and, while I am in general a= fan of general design, there does not seem to be business requirements and= scenarios that demand this - and even if there were, this would constitute= merely an optimization (since if you have different receivers who want dif= ferent encodings/tranport, you can always simply create another subscriptio= n).=C2=A0

If in the future there is really desire to add this as an additional featur= e, we can put this into a -bis version.=C2=A0 (Adding stuff will be easier = than taking things away.)=C2=A0 Let's just be done.=C2=A0

--- Alex

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netconf [mailto:netc= onf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin
> Bjorklund
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:51 AM
> To: kwatsen@juniper.net
> Cc: evoit=3D40cisco.com@= dmarc.ietf.org; netconf@ietf.o= rg
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? >
> Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper= .net> wrote:
> > [removing yang-doctors list, and updating subject line accordingl= y]
> >
> >
> > >> > Why do all receivers of a subscription have to use = the same
> transport?
> > >>
> > >> This was something that Martin and Eric worked out befor= e we did
> > >> the first Last Call.=C2=A0 Eric doesn't seem to know= the particular
> > >> reason, other than Martin seems to think it=E2=80=99s ea= sier.
> > >
> > > No; I personally also prefer a design where each receiver ha= s its
> > > own transport + encoding.
> >
> > +1
> >
> >
> > > The original model had a common "encoding" for all= receivers, and
> > > then a receiver-specific transport - I think this is even wo= rse,
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> >
> > > and suggested to have transport + encoding defined together<= br> > > > preferrably receiver-specifc or else common for all receiver= s.
> > >
> > > If the WG now believes that the transport + encoding should = be done
> > > per receiver, this should be fairly easy to change.
> >
> > I also prefer per receiver, and I think that doing so will simpli= fy
> > the model, as neither the mandatory "transport" nor the= [not
> > mandatory?] "encoding" leaves have to be specified.
> >
> > In particular, my thoughts are that the "notif" model s= hould provide
> > for the encoding selection, if needed (it's not needed for NE= TCONF, or
> > COAP I imagine).
>
> I agree.=C2=A0 I think this would be a cleaner design.
>
>
> /martin
>
>
> >
> > In the case of RESTCONF, we could update the ietf-restconf-client= and
> > ietf-restconf-server models to include an "encodings" l= eaf-list, to
> > configure the RESTCONF server which encodings it should support.= =C2=A0 We
> > likely need to do something similar to configure which HTTP versi= ons
> > should be supported.=C2=A0 Now, in a general RC server, the serve= r could
> > support both but, if the restconf-notif draft has its own list of=
> > restconf-servers (i.e., it uses the "restconf-server-groupin= g" itself,
> > see my July 19 email for a YANG example), then a constraint could= be
> > added limiting the number "supported" to just one.=C2= =A0 Thus, when the RC
> > server reboots, and connects to the receiver and *automatically* = (no
> > client RPC) starts pushing notifications, it can know what encodi= ng to
> > use.
> >
> > I'm still unsure if its legal for an RC server to automatical= ly push
> > notifications without a client-initiated RPC of any sort, and I&#= 39;m also
> > uncertain if supporting *configured* subscriptions for NC or RC i= s
> > needed (see my message July 20 email).=C2=A0 So, some of this may= work
> > itself out as we progress.
> >
> > I know that we're not defining the *configured* notif drafts = in this
> > first effort, the we are publishing the SN draft with a configura= tion
> > model, my only concern now is configuration model presented in th= e SN
> > draft.
> >
> >
> > Kent // contributor
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ie= tf.org_mailman_listinfo_netconf&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rs= uhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3D9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhq= n2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=3DMh0UuTFvh9TpmFzzMMON07C4WQIwjRJ= LM-OT62OJZe4&s=3DPPy3uCUVVJa-GwAfmUexA9cX31IWHhlMHlAGMcPdnyY&= amp;e=3D


_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

--000000000000f9ec540572756a03-- From nobody Thu Aug 2 09:04:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1293C130E1B for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:04:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z5QYFMeyslXb for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 568E3130E0E for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:04:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=41090; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1533225884; x=1534435484; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=eUdvQJpczCGriMOqoiYxQga1ckKrpjcDFJCF77sSVmc=; b=fiwSk4XkMtGERzJhdMy8UNbQZePeaH1VH7aYypwyDpWZtSYsVGWWTD3n HBxfIH60MRBJxAmCL5KR30mK1sIKLabh4qr+rIJYOCE1I3ZFHKOjL3Ve8 Y3Mke5KCXsv+zIm4aMC4n8bLkhoKxxzTDZkNtb7VrMm5PTk6oACzqeQWa s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DWAQDyKmNb/4MNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYJXSS5jfygKg3SUSIFoJZVaFIFjAwsYAQmEBEYCF4JuITY?= =?us-ascii?q?WAQIBAQIBAQJtHAyFNgEBAQQBASFLCwwEAgEIDgMEAQEOEwEGAwICAiULFAk?= =?us-ascii?q?IAgQOBR+DAQGBG2QPsiaBLopUBYkIF4IAgTkME4JMgxsBAQIYgRQBEgEJFTe?= =?us-ascii?q?CSzGCBCACkhmIDQkChhiJKIFJjEuIFYJGhRSCMwIRFIEkJAMuYXFwFTsqAYI?= =?us-ascii?q?+PoFnF4NFhRSFPm8BAYx1gR+BGwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,436,1526342400"; d="scan'208,217";a="422286988" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 02 Aug 2018 16:04:43 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-009.cisco.com (xch-rtp-009.cisco.com [64.101.220.149]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w72G4gVY021058 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Aug 2018 16:04:43 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-009.cisco.com (64.101.220.149) by XCH-RTP-009.cisco.com (64.101.220.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 12:04:42 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-009.cisco.com ([64.101.220.149]) by XCH-RTP-009.cisco.com ([64.101.220.149]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 12:04:42 -0400 From: "Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn)" To: Kent Watsen CC: Alexander Clemm , Martin Bjorklund , "evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? Thread-Index: AQHUKEYUmUSBX283/kCJ9HawSKyfbKSprlCAgABGJYCAAuRYAIAADsAA Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 16:04:42 +0000 Message-ID: <78F7B695-FB2A-4308-B031-B7447596B04B@cisco.com> References: <44B0A74E-CCF0-4E9B-846A-1F46E90AEB5E@juniper.net> <20180731.165103.950825344221422538.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB406AA@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <024DE375-E3F0-4255-AC53-2D17C77D6E06@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <024DE375-E3F0-4255-AC53-2D17C77D6E06@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.106.9] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_78F7B695FB2A4308B031B7447596B04Bciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.149, xch-rtp-009.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? 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(amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0U71MCVm_O6Q for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.72.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF809130E21 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id w72GLbjn011187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:21:39 +0200 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (134.102.43.163) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:21:32 +0200 To: Kent Watsen , Alexander Clemm , Martin Bjorklund CC: "evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <44B0A74E-CCF0-4E9B-846A-1F46E90AEB5E@juniper.net> <20180731.165103.950825344221422538.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB406AA@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <024DE375-E3F0-4255-AC53-2D17C77D6E06@juniper.net> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: <2b135729-7a5c-ede1-a15b-3cb6b453256e@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:21:31 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <024DE375-E3F0-4255-AC53-2D17C77D6E06@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [134.102.43.163] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 16:22:03 -0000 Hello all, this discussion seems to be about dynamic subscriptions as "each application will selfishly create its own subscription". Configured subscriptions would benefit from a list of multiple receivers at the time of unboxing, I think. And that would be about resilient subscriptions or HA features in redundancy groups of receivers. That said, wrt dynamic subscriptions, constrained-node environment YANG servers/datastores would benefit from minimizing the number of subscription state to be maintained. Also, the amount of potential useful sets of subscription characteristic is smaller with smaller things. Looking these up would be a valid alternative, I'd assume? Viele Grüße, Henk On 08/02/2018 05:11 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > I am sympathetic to Eric's and Einar's observation that a given subscription, having multiple receivers, is likely to have all the receivers using the same transport and encoding. > > The thought behind this is that, assuming there are multiple distinct applications, each application will selfishly create its own subscription; it will not try to see if there is another existing subscription that matches its needs. > > Thus, in effect, the *only* purpose for there being a *list* of receivers is for enabling high availability, which I think is okay. I wish the text was clearer about this objective. > > What I object to is the way that this restriction is currently implemented using identities, which requires the "notif" models to do something right. Better would be a "must" expression that says the count of the descendants is exactly one. Can you do that? > > Kent // contributor > > > ===== original message ===== > > I am wondering why we are reopening the issue of multiple encodings/transports per receiver vs per subscription? > > Having single transport / encoding per subscription is a simpler design (feedback from implementors; simplifies dealing with any error conditions due to encoding that would affect one receiver but not others in the same subscription; Einar has explained this in the past) and, while I am in general a fan of general design, there does not seem to be business requirements and scenarios that demand this - and even if there were, this would constitute merely an optimization (since if you have different receivers who want different encodings/tranport, you can always simply create another subscription). > > If in the future there is really desire to add this as an additional feature, we can put this into a -bis version. (Adding stuff will be easier than taking things away.) Let's just be done. > > --- Alex > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin >> Bjorklund >> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:51 AM >> To: kwatsen@juniper.net >> Cc: evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? >> >> Kent Watsen wrote: >>> [removing yang-doctors list, and updating subject line accordingly] >>> >>> >>>>>> Why do all receivers of a subscription have to use the same >> transport? >>>>> >>>>> This was something that Martin and Eric worked out before we did >>>>> the first Last Call. Eric doesn't seem to know the particular >>>>> reason, other than Martin seems to think it’s easier. >>>> >>>> No; I personally also prefer a design where each receiver has its >>>> own transport + encoding. >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> >>>> The original model had a common "encoding" for all receivers, and >>>> then a receiver-specific transport - I think this is even worse, >>> >>> Agreed. >>> >>> >>>> and suggested to have transport + encoding defined together >>>> preferrably receiver-specifc or else common for all receivers. >>>> >>>> If the WG now believes that the transport + encoding should be done >>>> per receiver, this should be fairly easy to change. >>> >>> I also prefer per receiver, and I think that doing so will simplify >>> the model, as neither the mandatory "transport" nor the [not >>> mandatory?] "encoding" leaves have to be specified. >>> >>> In particular, my thoughts are that the "notif" model should provide >>> for the encoding selection, if needed (it's not needed for NETCONF, or >>> COAP I imagine). >> >> I agree. I think this would be a cleaner design. >> >> >> /martin >> >> >>> >>> In the case of RESTCONF, we could update the ietf-restconf-client and >>> ietf-restconf-server models to include an "encodings" leaf-list, to >>> configure the RESTCONF server which encodings it should support. We >>> likely need to do something similar to configure which HTTP versions >>> should be supported. Now, in a general RC server, the server could >>> support both but, if the restconf-notif draft has its own list of >>> restconf-servers (i.e., it uses the "restconf-server-grouping" itself, >>> see my July 19 email for a YANG example), then a constraint could be >>> added limiting the number "supported" to just one. Thus, when the RC >>> server reboots, and connects to the receiver and *automatically* (no >>> client RPC) starts pushing notifications, it can know what encoding to >>> use. >>> >>> I'm still unsure if its legal for an RC server to automatically push >>> notifications without a client-initiated RPC of any sort, and I'm also >>> uncertain if supporting *configured* subscriptions for NC or RC is >>> needed (see my message July 20 email). So, some of this may work >>> itself out as we progress. >>> >>> I know that we're not defining the *configured* notif drafts in this >>> first effort, the we are publishing the SN draft with a configuration >>> model, my only concern now is configuration model presented in the SN >>> draft. >>> >>> >>> Kent // contributor >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netconf&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=Mh0UuTFvh9TpmFzzMMON07C4WQIwjRJLM-OT62OJZe4&s=PPy3uCUVVJa-GwAfmUexA9cX31IWHhlMHlAGMcPdnyY&e= > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Thu Aug 2 09:23:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8CE130E3D for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:23:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W6Db5er3K0hX for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5E2E130E16 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id f8-v6so2479398ljk.1 for ; Thu, 02 Aug 2018 09:23:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FrFyyjv9F9SGP9x6Cn7l19DJOf/uQvoXavl7SOIshoE=; b=Jxv7dWB5aH7+IFYmw4WY0Tt759MgdsiLpclmOfONbp6p1m2FShqZxxD6pYqNZOdoA/ Ls/P7zX6vYGdCGaYytOezLXcNFNZaKMj+NaniiRmzJXkhKyxPpCwxxChitI8bv7915ZF EFU9XIIG7oWcpBOYSsPGtyVklH804CtldziupSkG1Yrtf6t4HHp7GMOtJB91ycJCj+c3 wT8WK27Dgn1rzLaq634CP1bgtcm7WzoZFamgf/8mDpr3WQWKzqIKF376ZnmSFm7NYDBc iHMrmaWMQMvRuhrXHEJPU+ba7pHoIMPx0xdliUYFY6yMiuxbEAPkf1QIFy06hXUGaXNE E21g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FrFyyjv9F9SGP9x6Cn7l19DJOf/uQvoXavl7SOIshoE=; b=sC4MisKsI7Hcftf3nPMgux1Yxbu9gIM4ANNcKTsyb3/kQMOJzG+QFIGMBoWkKUJCtU 42bpk7fCFpDx5PE9rmSmzWfuQ2fd+ZDPDPNyBMJAUSbLY4/uHMaDMCARNiyvSnF2TAEB unLkavdCug21IWJZInqSTNMFvs6aiv/NS0eHgZAcgOrPlQABiC4Lell5ysf/JcvHkOhN ZoX0ULEsihfMe/pE0H71SQG5mr0uTP1KR85sjjyjA5gQboraIDmUh5PVDwnZ5s8L0en8 VMck1N1k/1eWJWmvWE2RJw4b+Q2cHzYJnWdSSbwG6msdBYbukLW7NnBlJHYxfw/9FBri y6Qw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHl4yDhaSwmVcLFS89HIsvoiZpwwBbXAWLHUSc3cUWvOM87GGc2 srULoRW3xdOHqR4vuLurDyj9paf6BRGc7Y7jSXxZ7b0f X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpdmqMZTkkArVCOI5oX2e7ppZVVHrObvIMFrMDtnGGb2ke2TM2I4MaxvhzwltwW3LxaQdyp14dEDMwTyQa4qgVc= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:5687:: with SMTP id k7-v6mr2846721lje.105.1533226997149; Thu, 02 Aug 2018 09:23:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:aa46:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:23:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <44B0A74E-CCF0-4E9B-846A-1F46E90AEB5E@juniper.net> <20180731.165103.950825344221422538.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB406AA@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <024DE375-E3F0-4255-AC53-2D17C77D6E06@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 09:23:15 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn)" Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" , "evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008682b60572763adf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 16:23:23 -0000 --0000000000008682b60572763adf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn) < einarnn@cisco.com> wrote: > > > On 2 Aug 2018, at 16:25, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:11 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > >> >> I am sympathetic to Eric's and Einar's observation that a given >> subscription, having multiple receivers, is likely to have all the >> receivers using the same transport and encoding. >> >> The thought behind this is that, assuming there are multiple distinct >> applications, each application will selfishly create its own subscriptio= n; >> it will not try to see if there is another existing subscription that >> matches its needs. >> >> Thus, in effect, the *only* purpose for there being a *list* of receiver= s >> is for enabling high availability, which I think is okay. I wish the te= xt >> was clearer about this objective. >> >> What I object to is the way that this restriction is currently >> implemented using identities, which requires the "notif" models to do >> something right. Better would be a "must" expression that says the coun= t >> of the descendants is exactly one. Can you do that? >> > > > Is there a way to make multiple receivers per subscription > optional-to-implement > (another YANG feature?) > > > einarnn> Speaking for Cisco, we=E2=80=99re just putting a deviation in th= at > initially the max size of the receivers list is 1. I think having multipl= e > receivers be a feature would complicate the model. I see no need for a > feature here. > > Anyone implementing configured subscriptions is forced to support multipl= e > receivers. > Does that mean it is harmful to the Internet if only 1 receiver per > subscription is allowed? > > > einarnn> Clearly it=E2=80=99s not harmful :-) > > I was told this feature is required because it is too much of a burden on > the client to > create a separate subscription for each receiver. IMO this is nonsense, > but I won't > implement configured subscriptions anyway. > > > einarnn> I know I=E2=80=99m an advocate of this feature, but it=E2=80=99s= nothing to do > with the burden on a client related to creating >1 configured subscriptio= n. > It=E2=80=99s to do with efficiency for me for the use cases related to HA= . We have > feedback from customers that they want to see the devices be able to send > the same feed to >1 (usually 2) consumers to deal with HA/redundancy and = to > allow for receiver-determined network path diversity. This gives options > needed (IMO) options for how customers address this. > > It is trivial to support this use-case with 2 subscriptions. The burden on the client is probably less, since the model would be simpler= . > Cheers, > > Einar > Andy > > > >> Kent // contributor >> >> > > Andy > > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D original message =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> I am wondering why we are reopening the issue of multiple >> encodings/transports per receiver vs per subscription? >> >> Having single transport / encoding per subscription is a simpler design >> (feedback from implementors; simplifies dealing with any error condition= s >> due to encoding that would affect one receiver but not others in the sam= e >> subscription; Einar has explained this in the past) and, while I am in >> general a fan of general design, there does not seem to be business >> requirements and scenarios that demand this - and even if there were, th= is >> would constitute merely an optimization (since if you have different >> receivers who want different encodings/tranport, you can always simply >> create another subscription). >> >> If in the future there is really desire to add this as an additional >> feature, we can put this into a -bis version. (Adding stuff will be eas= ier >> than taking things away.) Let's just be done. >> >> --- Alex >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin >> > Bjorklund >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:51 AM >> > To: kwatsen@juniper.net >> > Cc: evoit=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org >> > Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? >> > >> > Kent Watsen > wrote: >> > > [removing yang-doctors list, and updating subject line accordingly] >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Why do all receivers of a subscription have to use the same >> > transport? >> > > >> >> > > >> This was something that Martin and Eric worked out before we did >> > > >> the first Last Call. Eric doesn't seem to know the particular >> > > >> reason, other than Martin seems to think it=E2=80=99s easier. >> > > > >> > > > No; I personally also prefer a design where each receiver has its >> > > > own transport + encoding. >> > > >> > > +1 >> > > >> > > >> > > > The original model had a common "encoding" for all receivers, and >> > > > then a receiver-specific transport - I think this is even worse, >> > > >> > > Agreed. >> > > >> > > >> > > > and suggested to have transport + encoding defined together >> > > > preferrably receiver-specifc or else common for all receivers. >> > > > >> > > > If the WG now believes that the transport + encoding should be don= e >> > > > per receiver, this should be fairly easy to change. >> > > >> > > I also prefer per receiver, and I think that doing so will simplify >> > > the model, as neither the mandatory "transport" nor the [not >> > > mandatory?] "encoding" leaves have to be specified. >> > > >> > > In particular, my thoughts are that the "notif" model should provide >> > > for the encoding selection, if needed (it's not needed for NETCONF, = or >> > > COAP I imagine). >> > >> > I agree. I think this would be a cleaner design. >> > >> > >> > /martin >> > >> > >> > > >> > > In the case of RESTCONF, we could update the ietf-restconf-client an= d >> > > ietf-restconf-server models to include an "encodings" leaf-list, to >> > > configure the RESTCONF server which encodings it should support. We >> > > likely need to do something similar to configure which HTTP versions >> > > should be supported. Now, in a general RC server, the server could >> > > support both but, if the restconf-notif draft has its own list of >> > > restconf-servers (i.e., it uses the "restconf-server-grouping" itsel= f, >> > > see my July 19 email for a YANG example), then a constraint could be >> > > added limiting the number "supported" to just one. Thus, when the R= C >> > > server reboots, and connects to the receiver and *automatically* (no >> > > client RPC) starts pushing notifications, it can know what encoding = to >> > > use. >> > > >> > > I'm still unsure if its legal for an RC server to automatically push >> > > notifications without a client-initiated RPC of any sort, and I'm al= so >> > > uncertain if supporting *configured* subscriptions for NC or RC is >> > > needed (see my message July 20 email). So, some of this may work >> > > itself out as we progress. >> > > >> > > I know that we're not defining the *configured* notif drafts in this >> > > first effort, the we are publishing the SN draft with a configuratio= n >> > > model, my only concern now is configuration model presented in the S= N >> > > draft. >> > > >> > > >> > > Kent // contributor >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Netconf mailing list >> > Netconf@ietf.org >> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- >> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netconf&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHA >> kYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3D9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EP >> oOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=3DMh0UuTFvh9TpmFzzMMON07C4WQIwjR >> JLM-OT62OJZe4&s=3DPPy3uCUVVJa-GwAfmUexA9cX31IWHhlMHlAGMcPdnyY&e=3D >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > --0000000000008682b60572763adf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn) <einarn= n@cisco.com> wrote:


On 2 Aug 2018, at 16:25, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:



On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:11 AM, Kent Watsen=C2=A0<kwa= tsen@juniper.net>=C2=A0wrote:

I am sympathetic to Eric's and Einar's observation that a given sub= scription, having multiple receivers, is likely to have all the receivers u= sing the same transport and encoding.

The thought behind this is that, assuming there are multiple distinct appli= cations, each application will selfishly create its own subscription; it wi= ll not try to see if there is another existing subscription that matches it= s needs.

Thus, in effect, the *only* purpose for there being a *list* of receivers i= s for enabling high availability, which I think is okay.=C2=A0 I wish the t= ext was clearer about this objective.

What I object to is the way that this restriction is currently implemented = using identities, which requires the "notif" models to do somethi= ng right.=C2=A0 Better would be a "must" expression that says the= count of the descendants is exactly one.=C2=A0 Can you do that?


Is there a way to make multiple receivers per subscription optional-to= -implement
(another YANG feature?)

einarnn> Speaking for Cisco, we=E2=80=99re just putting a deviation= in that initially the max size of the receivers list is 1. I think having = multiple receivers be a feature would complicate the model. I see no need f= or a feature here.

Anyone implementing configured subscriptions is forced to support mult= iple receivers.
Does that mean it is harmful to the Internet if only 1 receiver per su= bscription is allowed?

einarnn> Clearly it=E2=80=99s not harmful :-)

I was told this feature is required because it is too much of a burden= on the client to
create a separate subscription for each receiver.=C2=A0 IMO this is no= nsense, but I won't
implement configured subscriptions anyway.

einarnn> I know I=E2=80=99m an advocate of this feature, but it=E2= =80=99s nothing to do with the burden on a client related to creating >1= configured subscription. It=E2=80=99s to do with efficiency for me for the= use cases related to HA. We have feedback from customers that they want to see the devices be able to send the same feed to >1 (usual= ly 2) consumers to deal with HA/redundancy and to allow for receiver-determ= ined network path diversity. This gives options needed (IMO) options for ho= w customers address this.


It is trivial t= o support this use-case with 2 subscriptions.
The burden on the c= lient is probably less, since the model would be simpler.

=C2=A0
Cheers,

Einar


Andy
=C2=A0



Kent // contributor



Andy


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D original message =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I am wondering why we are reopening the issue of multiple encodings/transpo= rts per receiver vs per subscription?=C2=A0=C2=A0

Having single transport / encoding per subscription is a simpler design (fe= edback from implementors; simplifies dealing with any error conditions due = to encoding that would affect one receiver but not others in the same subsc= ription; Einar has explained this in the past) and, while I am in general a fan of general design, there doe= s not seem to be business requirements and scenarios that demand this - and= even if there were, this would constitute merely an optimization (since if= you have different receivers who want different encodings/tranport, you can always simply create another su= bscription).=C2=A0=C2=A0

If in the future there is really desire to add this as an additional featur= e, we can put this into a -bis version.=C2=A0 (Adding stuff will be easier = than taking things away.)=C2=A0 Let's just be done.=C2=A0=C2=A0

--- Alex

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin
> Bjorklund
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:51 AM
> To:=C2=A0<= /span>kwatsen@juni= per.net
> Cc: evoit=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org;=C2=A0netconf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? >=C2=A0
> Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper..net> wrote:
> > [removing yang-doctors list, and updating subject line accordingl= y]
> >
> >
> > >> > Why do all receivers of a subscription have to use = the same
> transport?
> > >>
> > >> This was something that Martin and Eric worked out befor= e we did
> > >> the first Last Call.=C2=A0 Eric doesn't seem to know= the particular
> > >> reason, other than Martin seems to think it=E2=80=99s ea= sier.
> > >
> > > No; I personally also prefer a design where each receiver ha= s its
> > > own transport + encoding.
> >
> > +1
> >
> >
> > > The original model had a common "encoding" for all= receivers, and
> > > then a receiver-specific transport - I think this is even wo= rse,
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> >
> > > and suggested to have transport + encoding defined together<= br> > > > preferrably receiver-specifc or else common for all receiver= s.
> > >
> > > If the WG now believes that the transport + encoding should = be done
> > > per receiver, this should be fairly easy to change.
> >
> > I also prefer per receiver, and I think that doing so will simpli= fy
> > the model, as neither the mandatory "transport" nor the= [not
> > mandatory?] "encoding" leaves have to be specified.
> >
> > In particular, my thoughts are that the "notif" model s= hould provide
> > for the encoding selection, if needed (it's not needed for NE= TCONF, or
> > COAP I imagine).
>=C2=A0
> I agree.=C2=A0 I think this would be a cleaner design.
>=C2=A0
>=C2=A0
> /martin
>=C2=A0
>=C2=A0
> >
> > In the case of RESTCONF, we could update the ietf-restconf-client= and
> > ietf-restconf-server models to include an "encodings" l= eaf-list, to
> > configure the RESTCONF server which encodings it should support.= =C2=A0 We
> > likely need to do something similar to configure which HTTP versi= ons
> > should be supported.=C2=A0 Now, in a general RC server, the serve= r could
> > support both but, if the restconf-notif draft has its own list of=
> > restconf-servers (i.e., it uses the "restconf-server-groupin= g" itself,
> > see my July 19 email for a YANG example), then a constraint could= be
> > added limiting the number "supported" to just one.=C2= =A0 Thus, when the RC
> > server reboots, and connects to the receiver and *automatically* = (no
> > client RPC) starts pushing notifications, it can know what encodi= ng to
> > use.
> >
> > I'm still unsure if its legal for an RC server to automatical= ly push
> > notifications without a client-initiated RPC of any sort, and I&#= 39;m also
> > uncertain if supporting *configured* subscriptions for NC or RC i= s
> > needed (see my message July 20 email).=C2=A0 So, some of this may= work
> > itself out as we progress.
> >
> > I know that we're not defining the *configured* notif drafts = in this
> > first effort, the we are publishing the SN draft with a configura= tion
> > model, my only concern now is configuration model presented in th= e SN
> > draft.
> >
> >
> > Kent // contributor
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
>=C2=A0Netconf@ietf.org
>=C2=A0https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.= org_mailman_listinfo_netconf&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr= 6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3D9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2g= sBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=3DMh0UuTFvh9TpmFzzMMON07C4WQIwjRJLM-OT62O= JZe4&s=3DPPy3uCUVVJa-GwAfmUexA9cX31IWHhlMHlAGMcPdnyY&e=3D=


_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

_________________= ______________________________
Netconf mailing list
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http= s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


--0000000000008682b60572763adf-- From nobody Fri Aug 3 09:30:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54540130E53 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 09:30:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xhhTdCJP4C50 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 09:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x132.google.com (mail-lf1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E66BD130DF4 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 09:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x132.google.com with SMTP id f18-v6so4498344lfc.2 for ; Fri, 03 Aug 2018 09:30:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kCPAsCUN41CPmmyzpKeVL7vmubGeldZV1vNuRQp1Mq0=; b=tINbwIiSYhWuBSBB1CXlhGc5X/+rVbbo3ZvqraLAR02xhPL76a5OgVTWoj+yX2QlSI kaInfIMoTjUw0NNzoqS6EpMVVE5NvaRP25zL56Y5nxKCt5ylnlxiuBy4I0x/ENw70R9M E4On1CSiNfIEqv+qBX9DxeARHnwHREmpt4WQ5lzXqeSMYItRuiozdF0eJFp95Br6mnYs DdjAcnqedL1adR/1osYkNvDPY3blEQY8kpJ5OBSTRzSCJtjvgfWXFg1qL0qd8QeVfRSo 01fMtUgM2mx5J9L2A5DLAKRlYcjx00TCBDhbhmpGpqgnpjfB1tJuwKST+Bz9BnOk1bcY huWw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kCPAsCUN41CPmmyzpKeVL7vmubGeldZV1vNuRQp1Mq0=; b=apXma9Gy/zuW0YJ0rvKRNKxxMQm0HmMJ255CZarILicXd/DJOhdTiXWPgUH7we9Cy1 Y7/FnSR3cqB/b4pc6X8B1y8CY7kUXrJXsMeeHd8pqP70Ik4gxgcSRytpxg5WEzwoQCk9 DPC5dBIwUvUfLz48W8ID0KpoVBg21rnBe9rTzXs158n9Td1ZPsMFf5A+wNkYNhUVgkW9 pWGqtQqsr2AGz6XiVlKSiJ97zliEMsUJsTCiNNQrOn26i4LqWjTdjnl4+DiZs3wZ4bZl XnCGoGbXTcyvm343IHVWVz5ymlHqKqiSXtIgz66FZyk+YMGDPxziicPc8r1ZxXUVUNlo hW3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGDaCZROuAoeOUF5tPxYyemunmYYlArKjjl4JQTQJ3JjiZz3ScJ +jZOuOSQgnuU0VVyH7LR/lZgvG6VjKc62jjFicvg+JgE X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpdL+qqo3cgQYU9+KULTZ/RTaznZ6i9/v6jRHpnTJ9tEHn8/ARg/gO6FZHnMlOsEkH5RddmKzPrheh/AI7GDHV0= X-Received: by 2002:a19:518a:: with SMTP id g10-v6mr4976722lfl.78.1533313818632; Fri, 03 Aug 2018 09:30:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:aa46:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 09:30:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <78F7B695-FB2A-4308-B031-B7447596B04B@cisco.com> References: <44B0A74E-CCF0-4E9B-846A-1F46E90AEB5E@juniper.net> <20180731.165103.950825344221422538.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB406AA@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <024DE375-E3F0-4255-AC53-2D17C77D6E06@juniper.net> <78F7B695-FB2A-4308-B031-B7447596B04B@cisco.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 09:30:17 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn)" Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" , "evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007d376405728a71c8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 16:30:24 -0000 --0000000000007d376405728a71c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn) < einarnn=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > Inline... > > On 2 Aug 2018, at 16:11, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > I am sympathetic to Eric's and Einar's observation that a given > subscription, having multiple receivers, is likely to have all the > receivers using the same transport and encoding. > > > einarnn> Absolutely. I see very few real world cases where it is likely > that we will see same subscription with different receivers using differe= nt > encodings. It is a step too far IMO. > > The thought behind this is that, assuming there are multiple distinct > applications, each application will selfishly create its own subscription= ; > it will not try to see if there is another existing subscription that > matches its needs. > > > einarnn> This is the likely outcome if you are in a multi-manager scenari= o > anyway. We shouldn=E2=80=99t be trying to optimise anything related to th= inking > that *distinct* consumers will try to reuse others=E2=80=99 subscriptions= in a > spirit of good citizenship. It just won=E2=80=99t, pragmatically, happen.= What > would be way more likely to happen to support this is that the distributi= on > out to multiple distinct consumers will happen by way of middleware put i= n > place by the customer. > > Thus, in effect, the *only* purpose for there being a *list* of receivers > is for enabling high availability, which I think is okay. I wish the tex= t > was clearer about this objective. > > > einarnn> Agreed. Let=E2=80=99s just move past this issue > > OK, I do not want to hold up dynamic subscriptions. I do not agree with the design practice of empty mandatory choice. It looks like a band-aid for a broken development process, not good architecture. Is it really such a complex problem to define a case with an address/port end-point? Sorry I missed the rationale for why removing such an obvious data model for an endpoint so it can be replaced with proprietary augments instead. What are vendors using to model an endpoint that is so different from host/port? Cheers, > > Einar > Andy > > > What I object to is the way that this restriction is currently implemente= d > using identities, which requires the "notif" models to do something right= . > Better would be a "must" expression that says the count of the descendant= s > is exactly one. Can you do that? > > Kent // contributor > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D original message =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > I am wondering why we are reopening the issue of multiple > encodings/transports per receiver vs per subscription? > > Having single transport / encoding per subscription is a simpler design > (feedback from implementors; simplifies dealing with any error conditions > due to encoding that would affect one receiver but not others in the same > subscription; Einar has explained this in the past) and, while I am in > general a fan of general design, there does not seem to be business > requirements and scenarios that demand this - and even if there were, thi= s > would constitute merely an optimization (since if you have different > receivers who want different encodings/tranport, you can always simply > create another subscription). > > If in the future there is really desire to add this as an additional > feature, we can put this into a -bis version. (Adding stuff will be easi= er > than taking things away.) Let's just be done. > > --- Alex > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org = ] > On Behalf Of Martin > Bjorklund > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:51 AM > To: kwatsen@juniper.net > Cc: evoit=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? > > Kent Watsen wrote: > > [removing yang-doctors list, and updating subject line accordingly] > > > Why do all receivers of a subscription have to use the same > > transport? > > > This was something that Martin and Eric worked out before we did > the first Last Call. Eric doesn't seem to know the particular > reason, other than Martin seems to think it=E2=80=99s easier. > > > No; I personally also prefer a design where each receiver has its > own transport + encoding. > > > +1 > > > The original model had a common "encoding" for all receivers, and > then a receiver-specific transport - I think this is even worse, > > > Agreed. > > > and suggested to have transport + encoding defined together > preferrably receiver-specifc or else common for all receivers. > > If the WG now believes that the transport + encoding should be done > per receiver, this should be fairly easy to change. > > > I also prefer per receiver, and I think that doing so will simplify > the model, as neither the mandatory "transport" nor the [not > mandatory?] "encoding" leaves have to be specified. > > In particular, my thoughts are that the "notif" model should provide > for the encoding selection, if needed (it's not needed for NETCONF, or > COAP I imagine). > > > I agree. I think this would be a cleaner design. > > > /martin > > > > In the case of RESTCONF, we could update the ietf-restconf-client and > ietf-restconf-server models to include an "encodings" leaf-list, to > configure the RESTCONF server which encodings it should support. We > likely need to do something similar to configure which HTTP versions > should be supported. Now, in a general RC server, the server could > support both but, if the restconf-notif draft has its own list of > restconf-servers (i.e., it uses the "restconf-server-grouping" itself, > see my July 19 email for a YANG example), then a constraint could be > added limiting the number "supported" to just one. Thus, when the RC > server reboots, and connects to the receiver and *automatically* (no > client RPC) starts pushing notifications, it can know what encoding to > use. > > I'm still unsure if its legal for an RC server to automatically push > notifications without a client-initiated RPC of any sort, and I'm also > uncertain if supporting *configured* subscriptions for NC or RC is > needed (see my message July 20 email). So, some of this may work > itself out as we progress. > > I know that we're not defining the *configured* notif drafts in this > first effort, the we are publishing the SN draft with a configuration > model, my only concern now is configuration model presented in the SN > draft. > > > Kent // contributor > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www. > ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netconf&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBX= eMK- > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3D9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=3D > Mh0UuTFvh9TpmFzzMMON07C4WQIwjRJLM-OT62OJZe4&s=3DPPy3uCUVVJa- > GwAfmUexA9cX31IWHhlMHlAGMcPdnyY&e=3D > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > --0000000000007d376405728a71c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn) <einarnn=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
=
Inline...

On 2 Aug 2018, at 16:11, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:


I am sympathetic to Eric's and Einar's observation that a given subs= cription, having multiple receivers, is likely to have all the receivers us= ing the same transport and encoding.

einarnn> Absolutely. I see very few real world cases where it is li= kely that we will see same subscription with different receivers using diff= erent encodings. It is a step too far IMO.

The thought behind this is that, assuming there are multiple distinct applicat= ions, each application will selfishly create its own subscription; it will = not try to see if there is another existing subscription that matches its n= eeds.

einarnn> This is the likely outcome if you are in a multi-manager s= cenario anyway. We shouldn=E2=80=99t be trying to optimise anything related= to thinking that distinct consumers will try to reuse others=E2=80=99 subscriptions i= n a spirit of good citizenship. It just won=E2=80=99t, pragmatically, happe= n. What would be way more likely to happen to support this is that the dist= ribution out to multiple distinct consumers will happen by way of middleware put in place by the customer.

Thus, in effect, the *only* purpose for there being a *list* of receivers is for= enabling high availability, which I think is okay.=C2=A0 I wish the text w= as clearer about this objective.

einarnn> Agreed. Let=E2=80=99s just move past this issue



= OK, I do not want to hold up dynamic subscriptions.
I do not agre= e with the design practice of empty mandatory choice.
It looks li= ke a band-aid for a broken development process, not good architecture.

Is it really such a complex problem to define a case w= ith an address/port end-point?=C2=A0
Sorry I missed the rationale= for why removing such an obvious data model for an endpoint
so i= t can be replaced with proprietary augments instead.=C2=A0 What are vendors= using to model
an endpoint that is so different from host/port?<= /div>


Cheers,

Einar

Andy
=C2=A0


What I object to is the way that this restriction is currently implemented usin= g identities, which requires the "notif" models to do something r= ight.=C2=A0 Better would be a "must" expression that says the cou= nt of the descendants is exactly one.=C2=A0 Can you do that?

Kent // contributor


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D original message =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I am wondering why we are reopening the issue of multiple encodings/transpor= ts per receiver vs per subscription? =C2=A0

Having single transport / encoding per subscription is a simpler design (feedback= from implementors; simplifies dealing with any error conditions due to enc= oding that would affect one receiver but not others in the same subscriptio= n; Einar has explained this in the past) and, while I am in general a fan of general design, there does not s= eem to be business requirements and scenarios that demand this - and even i= f there were, this would constitute merely an optimization (since if you ha= ve different receivers who want different encodings/tranport, you can always simply create another subscri= ption). =C2=A0

If in the future there is really desire to add this as an additional feature,= we can put this into a -bis version. =C2=A0(Adding stuff will be easier th= an taking things away.) =C2=A0Let's just be done. =C2=A0

--- Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin
Bjorklund
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:51 AM
To: kwatsen@junipe= r.net
Cc: evoit=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org<= br> Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice?

Kent Watsen <kw= atsen@juniper.net> wrote:
[removing yang-doctors list, and updating subject= line accordingly]


Why do all receivers of a subscription have to us= e the same
transport?

This was something that Martin and Eric worked out before we did
the first Last Call.=C2=A0 Eric doesn't seem to know the particular
reason, other than Martin seems to think it=E2=80=99s easier.

No; I personally also prefer a design where each receiver has its
own transport + encoding.

+1


The original model had a common "encoding&qu= ot; for all receivers, and
then a receiver-specific transport - I think this is even worse,

Agreed.


and suggested to have transport + encoding define= d together
preferrably receiver-specifc or else common for all receivers.

If the WG now believes that the transport + encoding should be done
per receiver, this should be fairly easy to change.

I also prefer per receiver, and I think that doing so will simplify
the model, as neither the mandatory "transport" nor the [not
mandatory?] "encoding" leaves have to be specified.

In particular, my thoughts are that the "notif" model should prov= ide
for the encoding selection, if needed (it's not needed for NETCONF, or<= br> COAP I imagine).

I agree.=C2=A0 I think this would be a cleaner design.


/martin



In the case of RESTCONF, we could update the ietf-restconf-client and
ietf-restconf-server models to include an "encodings" leaf-list, = to
configure the RESTCONF server which encodings it should support.=C2=A0 We likely need to do something similar to configure which HTTP versions
should be supported.=C2=A0 Now, in a general RC server, the server could support both but, if the restconf-notif draft has its own list of
restconf-servers (i.e., it uses the "restconf-server-grouping" it= self,
see my July 19 email for a YANG example), then a constraint could be
added limiting the number "supported" to just one.=C2=A0 Thus, wh= en the RC
server reboots, and connects to the receiver and *automatically* (no
client RPC) starts pushing notifications, it can know what encoding to
use.

I'm still unsure if its legal for an RC server to automatically push notifications without a client-initiated RPC of any sort, and I'm also<= br> uncertain if supporting *configured* subscriptions for NC or RC is
needed (see my message July 20 email).=C2=A0 So, some of this may work
itself out as we progress.

I know that we're not defining the *configured* notif drafts in this first effort, the we are publishing the SN draft with a configuration
model, my only concern now is configuration model presented in the SN
draft.


Kent // contributor


_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://urldefense.p= roofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_= netconf&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-n= db3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3D9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZ= o&m=3DMh0UuTFvh9TpmFzzMMON07C4WQIwjRJLM-OT62OJZe4&s=3DPPy= 3uCUVVJa-GwAfmUexA9cX31IWHhlMHlAGMcPdnyY&e=3D


_________________= ______________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
http= s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
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eqR1P6XRF9MtlauPdmBaMozfxD4NRXYX9i9VJ3LKzIlq29qEQS5ChXml8VPFt3f91hK4y2PX/b4pxXgggDvfU1bpjUg0FzrqaCxCI9FTUn5T9nuXvY27PcvYPPmR9IDPNLvnJBRv6Yp0tTvSdgmnuO8J8/qyhmwutW0RLjnmd2GJaXd7GAV3WlyNybYnOFI4MmzsQF/Ar5gPVRQ8BW1IJiyt2geWmsDoJAprgUGX5igo/5MdJUItUenQZxTMM8KoLpgK3ygsOtFMITtqZt+9J69FtYMmiCZ0VTUOPPIiNCwtrzq80qcBzKLG+OdLoEg4PQJphU9RNm8kDxi51A5xYRO6dF5RkKTWDi1DCMJKWpU= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a557e408-7ed3-4b35-40c4-08d5f97d9512 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Aug 2018 20:13:30.8892 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR05MB4426 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-03_08:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=766 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808030218 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] draft minutes posted X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 20:13:35 -0000 DQpEcmFmdCBtaW51dGVzIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBwb3N0ZWQgaGVyZToNCg0KICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0 cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL21lZXRpbmcvMTAyL21hdGVyaWFscy9taW51dGVzLTEwMi1uZXRjb25m LTAwLnR4dA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0aGF0IHdlJ3JlIGxldmVyYWdpbmcgWW91VHViZSB0cmFu c2NyaXB0aW9uIHNlcnZpY2UuICBJdCdzIHJhdGhlciANCnJlbWFya2FibGUgaG93IGl0IGhhbmRs 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netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 20:15:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Customized Subscriptions to a Publisher's Event Streams Authors : Eric Voit Alexander Clemm Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Ambika Prasad Tripathy Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-15.txt Pages : 77 Date : 2018-08-03 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanisms enabling subscriber-specific subscriptions to a publisher's event streams. Applying these elements allows a subscriber to request for and receive a continuous, custom feed of publisher generated information. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-15 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-15 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-15 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Aug 3 13:32:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37E711310D8 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 13:32:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.509 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LiXC_LiGG3oY for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 13:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B662130F25 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 13:32:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10616; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1533328346; x=1534537946; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=nrDUqmd+A7q9Tr3w7uQFgiV488efFzPJTjoLvyTe8ak=; b=LCL0j0CRH3oi3I+M7hKoky91MBkr0VeK48wgAWiDZo78k4bmrC8A3iZF 3xESOl3Frbq18JUN2gTREP4nZZibMsG4gLAsD0qf3DV1UbjQ8iyFNcsdm 80o4+YMZWA9oznliMV/lAOBKWRZh/TLwdauTvZSqjlcmWli4HBRjlJ00f M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CaAAB/u2Rb/4UNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYJXd2N/KAqDdIgJjlKQQ4UbgXoLJYRHAheCdyE0GAECAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?CAQECbRwMhTYBAQEDASMKTAULAgEIDgctAgICMCUCBAENDRODBoEbXAgPsgy?= =?us-ascii?q?BLh+KMQWJCReBQT+EJIMbAoRigjUgApotCQKPOo4hki8CERSBJB04gVJwFYM?= =?us-ascii?q?kixWFPm8BjwiBGwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,439,1526342400"; d="scan'208,217";a="430154533" Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 03 Aug 2018 20:32:12 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-008.cisco.com (xch-rtp-008.cisco.com [64.101.220.148]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w73KWCPY006062 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Aug 2018 20:32:12 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-008.cisco.com (64.101.220.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 16:32:11 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 16:32:11 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Kent Watsen , "Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn)" CC: Alexander Clemm , Martin Bjorklund , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <153332965109.18369.2492118033312174748@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 13:54:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-11.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 20:54:11 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : NETCONF Support for Event Notifications Authors : Eric Voit Alexander Clemm Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Ambika Prasad Tripathy Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-11.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2018-08-03 Abstract: This document provides a NETCONF binding to the dynamic subscription capability of both subscribed notifications and YANG push. RFC Editor note: please replace the four references to pre-RFC normative drafts with the actual assigned RFC numbers. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Aug 5 02:11:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04331127AC2; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 02:11:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zgEYsFg9trPb; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 02:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9ED12785F; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 02:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B87A71AE0144; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 11:11:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2018 11:11:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180805.111123.2123994471181114333.mbj@tail-f.com> To: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, evoit@cisco.com, yang-doctors@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <958669b9-c523-3c43-eca4-fbc255fc1bc8@cisco.com> References: <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> <958669b9-c523-3c43-eca4-fbc255fc1bc8@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2018 09:11:31 -0000 Robert Wilton wrote: > = > = > On 01/08/2018 17:09, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) > >> > wrote: > >> > >> > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM > >> > > >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklu= nd > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it= > >> requires that > >> > > some transport-specific parameters are configured.=A0 > >> However, can we > >> > > assume that all transports require configuration > >> parameters here? > >> > > >> > Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters= ? > >> > > >> > > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, = and > >> instead > >> > > ensure that each transport augements the proper params= -- > >> and since > >> > > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmen= ted > >> can actually > >> > > be marked as mandatory. > >> > > >> > Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "t= his > >> is incomplete and > >> > unusable without an augmentation". > >> > >> My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we sho= uld > >> *not* use the empty mandatory choice.=A0 Let me know if I = got > >> this wrong. > >> > >> > >> I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree= > >> with Juergen > >> and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not ha= ndle a > >> "MUST augment" use-case very well. > > I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a > > conformance perspective.=A0 The concept seems similar to an > > programmatic interface, abstract class, or even the abstract > > identity idea that has been proposed for YANG.=A0 If a server > > implements the module but no augments of the choice then it can= not > > be configured because the constraint will always fail.=A0 Andy,= is > > your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is > > unusable? > > > > > > That is possible. > > I agree with Juergen that a mandatory empty choice clearly indicate= s > > that the module is incomplete > > and unusable on its own.=A0 Is that a feature? > Yes, making that indication is the whole purpose of adding the > "mandatory: true" to the empty choice.=A0 Note, that I see that the > "mandatory true" is there to say that every configured subscription > must have a transport configured, which if true, doesn't seem > unreasonable. Note that the model already has a 'transport' leaf that is mandatory. The choice is an explicit placeholder for transport-specific additional parameters. This proposed design is slightly different than the design in ietf-interfaces; in interfaces we have: leaf type { ... } // type-specific augmentations here For example (from the RFC): augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" { when "if:type =3D 'ianaift:ethernetCsmacd'"; container ethernet { leaf duplex { ... } } } In the notif model the proposal is: leaf transport { ... } ... choice transport-specific-params { // transport-specific augmentations here } Note that if the choice is not marked as mandatory, the resulting model will be less strict / useful compared to using a design like in the interfaces model (w/o the choice). To demonstrate, suppose we have a transport 'example-udp' that needs a mandatory 'address' and an optional 'port'. With the choice we'd have: augment '/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver' + '/sn:transport-specific-params' { =A0when 'derived-from(../../../../transport, "ex:example-udp")'; case example-udp-params { leaf address { mandatory true; ... } leaf port { ... } } } = If the choice is not mandatory, the model would allow a client to configure the transport leaf to 'example-udp', but not configure an address. Without the choice, we'd do: augment '/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver' =A0when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "ex:example-udp")'; leaf address { mandatory true; ... } leaf port { ... } } = In this case, or if the choice is mandatory, the model would require the client to configure an address if the transport is 'example-udp', which is what we want. But if the choice is marked as mandatory, *all* transports MUST define some transport-specific parameters, even if that is not needed (unclear if this will ever happen...) Thus, I prefer Eric's original model w/o the choice. The choice is supposed to be clever, but might end up being confusing, and I don't think it adds any value anyway. /martin > I.e. my main point is that I don't have an issue with > this generic YANG design. > = > In this particular instance, I'm also fine if "mandatory: true" is > left out, but I don't really agree with writing the equivalent of > "mandatory: true" in the description, that seems like a poor > compromise. > = > However, this is probably all bike-shedding.=A0 I think that any of t= he > discussed solutions is acceptable, as long as it is obvious to the > readers of the YANG modules that a case statement must be provided fo= r > it to be useful, and I make the assumption that sane vendors won't > enable the "configured" feature, if there is no actual way of > configuring usable subscriptions. > = > Perhaps Eric can propose his preferred choice, and we can see if > anyone still objects, otherwise maybe we can move on? > = > Thanks, > Rob > = > = > > > > Andy > > > > > > I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory= : > > true" in the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in th= e > > description because the former is machine readable whilst the > > latter is not. > > > > However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true"= , > > but with the choice description to state something along the li= nes > > that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of differen= t > > transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unle= ss > > at least one transport case statement is available."=A0 But per= haps > > some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a > > single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible). > > > > One other observation that could affect the decision here is th= at > > YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revisio= n > > in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added= .= > > > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > > > >> > >> I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice, > >> instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wa= nts > >> MUST) > >> > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> > >> > >> That would mean that each transport document supporting > >> configured subscriptions would then augment transport > >> specific parameters to > >> "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver". =A0And > >> (assuming the "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't= > >> changed), that the identity "transport" could be leveraged= to > >> enforce that only a single transport specific set of > >> credentials are associated with a receiver. > >> > >> A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look lik= e: > >> > >> module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications { > >> > >> =A0 prefix nsn; > >> > >> =A0 import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; } > >> =A0 import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; } > >> > >> =A0 identity netconf { > >> =A0 =A0 base sn:transport; > >> =A0 =A0 base sn:inline-address; > >> =A0 =A0 description > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 "NETCONF is used as a transport for notificati= on > >> messages and > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0state change notifications."; > >> =A0 } > >> > >> =A0 augment > >> "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receive= r" { > >> =A0 =A0when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf= ")'; > >> =A0 =A0description > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific par= ameters > >> to be > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 exposed for a receiver."; > >> =A0 =A0 leaf netconf-endpoint { > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 type leafref { > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 path > >> "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" + > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoi= nt/ncc:name"; > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 } > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 mandatory true; > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 description > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Remote client which need to initiate the = NETCONF > >> transport if > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 an existing NETCONF session from that clie= nt is not > >> available."; > >> =A0 =A0 } > >> =A0 } > >> } > >> > >> Which results in: > >> =A0 +--rw subscriptions > >> =A0 =A0 =A0+--rw subscription* > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 +--rw transport=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0transpor= t {configured}? > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 +--rw receivers > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0+--rw receiver* > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint lea= fref > >> > >> Eric > >> > >> > >> > /js > >> > > -- > >> > Juergen Schoenwaelder =A0Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > >> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 =A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen = | Germany > >> > Fax:=A0 =A0+49 421 200 3103=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > >> =A0 >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> yang-doctors mailing list > >> yang-doctors@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > >> > > > > > = From nobody Sun Aug 5 02:21:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9BA2130F9C for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 02:21:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aNnxHo3bAlJt for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 02:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73988130F93 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 02:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B67F91AE0144; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 11:21:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2018 11:21:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180805.112150.1992258953771490171.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com Cc: einarnn=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org, evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <024DE375-E3F0-4255-AC53-2D17C77D6E06@juniper.net> <78F7B695-FB2A-4308-B031-B7447596B04B@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? 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Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRjb25mDQo+ID4NCj4gPg0K From nobody Sun Aug 5 17:28:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655F4130DF3; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 17:28:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Christian Huitema To: Cc: ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf.all@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153351528236.13444.6191328032557284868@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2018 17:28:02 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf-06 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 00:28:03 -0000 Reviewer: Christian Huitema Review result: Ready I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the security area directors. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments. The summary of the review is Ready The document (draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf-06) presents extentions to the original NETCONG protocol (RFC 6241). RFC 6241 defined operations to "get-config" and "edit-config". The proposed revision defines "get-data" and "edit-data" that have more parameters than "get-config" and "edit-config", allowing for more precise filtering of the data being retrieved or edited. The security consideration section essentially points to the security considerations of the original NETCONF protocol, enhanced by the access control procedures defined in RFC 8341. The security of NETCONF depends on operation over a secure transport, the default being SSH, with NETCONF over SSH defined in RFC 6242. In my mind, the newly defined operations are similar to the previously defined operation, with an option for more narrow targeting to a subset of the configuration data. If the security of NETCONF was adequate, it will still be adequate after these extensions. From nobody Mon Aug 6 00:05:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB80130DDE for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 00:05:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0b0eb5VMS1K3 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 00:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (anna.eecs.jacobs-university.de [IPv6:2001:638:709:5::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6F7127598 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 00:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 827B623C845C; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 09:04:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 09:04:59 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180806070459.sa75u4ixfqbxgzfk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <149DAA14-96A0-4D22-892E-17ECEDAA9BF2@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <149DAA14-96A0-4D22-892E-17ECEDAA9BF2@juniper.net> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] draft minutes posted X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 07:05:08 -0000 Are these useful minutes? How do I find actions or tasks, the main points and decisions made by the participants in ~44 kibi of text generated by a YouTube transcription service? /js On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 08:13:30PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Draft minutes have been posted here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/minutes-102-netconf-00.txt > > Please note that we're leveraging YouTube transcription service. It's rather > remarkable how it handles ascents so well. Just minor adjustments were needed. > Anyway, these minutes capture more than usual. Please let us know if any > corrections are needed. > > Kent (and Mahesh) > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Aug 6 09:07:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CEFF130E1E for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 09:07:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MxVzgdPce1t9 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 09:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x233.google.com (mail-wm0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BBB6130E12 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 09:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x233.google.com with SMTP id o11-v6so14284888wmh.2 for ; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 09:07:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=6QxmJ3HbL/75xfMjocTOcV5umj8uZaF2nOz2FfMGaXQ=; b=tqu3VwVB4aVOBxbFTmECbxcDDmr1WVtHx0Uizgn+WcHS0s0Q/fNxvp1GwqHYKi846m mGOhKQ6U7FN0UgNbuhX98mRbY3mzvK93eOOsuaSDH0TggGJR+nVHFoHbXBN8+Z7ZU5gM kxWfDD4O+GMY9AvWNygODXcV7y0kQAvtw5VgNP3XrmbzwAS6jSejXeDHFYnWxj7/CZjE lNZ71qjxhXaEh++wo6YN7bfRfEwqB/1fWoaBnYai3hc7qTB6KoB9THQ3KH8MNonVPm6y /b+lH2ab3AuZTBPzx4KMQ1eD4CtpUIQRna4vNuJBsSFXw1qC6tBxibeIYm7KOLkZ7m7j Rosg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=6QxmJ3HbL/75xfMjocTOcV5umj8uZaF2nOz2FfMGaXQ=; b=QtbPQO9WIHWFvWonFEAW0OojXPBKY3ryMWiUyekDuL/Ww/25KQTKL5ESdQucx37YNk aNak/3vXZxCw7R14JemkJBYOtCEal331eloMGfJDyBHyC1JdxRK7+5l1MBijE12vsWIX Yq8FtSdUcuUsitvGAXK3NtJ+Co8j+gNuTp861gkMcqYCDqRwylxIjey2e+FrRPUIfbem AeGnrlkcCBfp2k6kU1wpewLlXdj6APY6J/J7rLR0p1mu3I2V3eQtZH0Mc5kz3hUjiZP/ rctRK7481aMQonC81/NaJXIGynXuhtfpx7ni5RA/oeSRbSklVHSUn2RIEt67yJhmvPDT yeOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHiZobxn3zARZPHkIpFb4i9IsGw8/vm718fIEnt/w0STZmiNu6T UUyQJ1W9N1P9g2Hg91+p1pM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcFXHtVmPNt3TfrSzK/2Qz5tDnVvX1Iuw92xhvkwBB8UlE3uKf4MY9xI/V555ZLS4G4t2wEzA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:ae8d:: with SMTP id x135-v6mr12362781wme.20.1533571656660; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 09:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOPFLHJVQJ ([37.155.24.235]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v5-v6sm18193234wrp.87.2018.08.06.09.07.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Aug 2018 09:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mehmet Ersue" To: , "'Kent Watsen'" References: <149DAA14-96A0-4D22-892E-17ECEDAA9BF2@juniper.net> <20180806070459.sa75u4ixfqbxgzfk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20180806070459.sa75u4ixfqbxgzfk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 18:08:14 +0100 Message-ID: <002f01d42da8$11751b30$345f5190$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGtmTEyo3K6AKu5HpPC77WWt9vcVAIeyrTupO8mhCA= Content-Language: de Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] draft minutes posted X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 16:07:41 -0000 I think the decisions and action items of the session should be made available to the WG for verification. This can be a summary mail or written down in session minutes. Cheers, Mehmet > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf On Behalf Of Juergen > Schoenwaelder > Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 8:05 AM > To: Kent Watsen > Cc: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netconf] draft minutes posted > > Are these useful minutes? How do I find actions or tasks, the main points and > decisions made by the participants in ~44 kibi of text generated by a YouTube > transcription service? > > /js > > On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 08:13:30PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > Draft minutes have been posted here: > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/minutes-102-netconf > > -00.txt > > > > Please note that we're leveraging YouTube transcription service. It's > > rather remarkable how it handles ascents so well. Just minor adjustments > were needed. > > Anyway, these minutes capture more than usual. Please let us know if > > any corrections are needed. > > > > Kent (and Mahesh) > > > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Mon Aug 6 10:03:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 921D8130E58; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 10:03:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bm4--aT0dEct; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 10:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33752130E23; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 10:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0108160.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w76GxYgj010879; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 10:02:53 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=IxLXH5op2Rig3/bDu02kZU9poYB4jNmEnCvPqoZh5Kw=; b=c276i9hW8Up57mVAKAR/dDMN3wzdIjg8fMSmgqReS5sQSb3Jm7Luf01YgQjFvw3+C60a /0lQKjx9UfcYN6wkAgAf74i/baICCtLeKWwycHiQ7G1LL+u2ChhhWnJKeYYvA3rU4hKJ vKtUfBusMyFuAnsZexyNLoOWv9umw4QWeidSCO5IfNAZMCE2WPo5iQPH4ywh5FqqPR9S IIbQzYPf1J/wdiiyYfITwsOpUgeU9NAzoKwXPP6Jgab1DwudIlELIin78IuR+oCHhf3W UBwiy9S6xUCfo/ltM8nz9Kb4FcvYOmBJT+2d1DW31WeZVYwSaNq3Ygg+v0DC2TghoEmq 7g== Received: from nam02-cy1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cys01nam02lp0054.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.54]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2kppa4gjkx-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 06 Aug 2018 10:02:53 -0700 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.109.202) by DM6PR05MB4026.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.71.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1038.14; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 17:02:51 +0000 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1038.019; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 17:02:51 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Martin Bjorklund , "rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" CC: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? 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X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 17:03:03 -0000 DQpbdG9wLXBvc3RpbmcgZm9yIGxhY2sgb2YgdGltZV0NCg0KSGkgTWFydGluLA0KDQpJbnRlcmVz dGluZyB0aGF0IHlvdSB2aWV3IHRoZSAidHJhbnNwb3J0IiBsZWFmIGFzIHdoZXJlIHRoZSBkZWNp c2lvbiBpcyANCm1hZGUuICBJIHN1cHBvc2UgdGhhdCBpcyB0aGUgY2FzZSBub3csIGJ1dCBJIGFs d2F5cyB2aWV3ZWQgdGhlIGxlYWYgYXMgDQphIHNvbWV3aGF0IGFydGlmaWNpYWwgImFuY2hvciIg dGhhdCB3YXMgYWRkZWQgb25seSB0byBzdXBwb3J0IHRoZSAid2hlbiINCmV4cHJlc3Npb24gdG8g YXNzZXJ0IGhvbW9nZW5laXR5LiAgVGhlIA0KDQpPbiB0aGF0LCBub3RlIHRoYXQgSSBtZXJlbHkg c2FpZCB0aGF0IEkgd2FzIHN5bXBhdGhldGljIHRvIHRoZSBQT1Y7IEknbQ0Kbm90IGNvbnZpbmNl ZCB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgcHJvYmxlbSBhbGxvd2luZyBoZXRlcm9nZW5laXR5LCBhcyB3aGF0 J3MNCmJlZW4gcG9zdGVkIHRodXMgZmFyIGZvciB3aHkgaXQgbWlnaHQgYmUgYSBbcGVyZm9ybWFu 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cBeiS_OSsN8N; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 11:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F24A6130E60; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 11:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E9B31AE0141; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 20:00:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 20:00:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180806.200027.1311550595605030604.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org, yang-doctors@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <958669b9-c523-3c43-eca4-fbc255fc1bc8@cisco.com> <20180805.111123.2123994471181114333.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 18:00:39 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > [top-posting for lack of time] > > Hi Martin, > > Interesting that you view the "transport" leaf as where the decision is > made. I suppose that is the case now, but I always viewed the leaf as > a somewhat artificial "anchor" that was added only to support the "when" > expression to assert homogeneity. The > > On that, note that I merely said that I was sympathetic to the POV; I'm > not convinced that there is a problem allowing heterogeneity, as what's > been posted thus far for why it might be a [performance?] problem was > conjecture. > > A fully cooked example would be helpful here, but I think you want: > > > > foo > ... > ... > ... > > > > whereas I was thinking that there would be a container, e.g. > > > > foo > > ... > ... > ... > > > > > which acts as the transport-selector, and hence homogeneity (if needed), > could be via a "must" expression that ensures that there is only one > such descendent, other than "name", across the receivers. This is what > that "must" expression I proffered last week was trying to do. If we > can do this, I think the model simplifies, as then the [artificial?] > "transport" and "encoding" leaves, and the "when" expressions, wouldn't > be needed to still assert the homogeneity. Well, I don' think you can do what you want to do with a must expression like that. Also, I think the design w/ selecting a transport with an identity is fine. IMO both designs work; either use a discriminating leaf (transport) and use augment with a "when" expression, or use a mandatory choice where each case denotes which transport is used. With the design choice that all receivers must use the same transport + encoding, the current design actually works better than a choice, imo. /martin > > Thoughts? > > Kent // contributor > > > > > Robert Wilton wrote: > > > > > > On 01/08/2018 17:09, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > >> > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM > > >> > > > >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > The empty mandatory choice does provide value since it > > >> requires that > > >> > > some transport-specific parameters are configured. > > >> However, can we > > >> > > assume that all transports require configuration > > >> parameters here? > > >> > > > >> > Can you have a receiver without any transport parameters? > > >> > > > >> > > It is probably safest to not have a mandatory choice, and > > >> instead > > >> > > ensure that each transport augements the proper params -- > > >> and since > > >> > > this is YANG 1.1, the transport params that are augmented > > >> can actually > > >> > > be marked as mandatory. > > >> > > > >> > Frankly, an empty mandatory choice quite clearly says "this > > >> is incomplete and > > >> > unusable without an augmentation". > > >> > > >> My read above is the YANG doctor's position is that we should > > >> *not* use the empty mandatory choice. Let me know if I got > > >> this wrong. > > >> > > >> > > >> I do not think a consensus call has been done yet, but I agree > > >> with Juergen > > >> and already raised the point that YANG conformance does not handle a > > >> "MUST augment" use-case very well. > > > I think that "empty choice + mandatory true" it is OK from a > > > conformance perspective. The concept seems similar to an > > > programmatic interface, abstract class, or even the abstract > > > identity idea that has been proposed for YANG. If a server > > > implements the module but no augments of the choice then it cannot > > > be configured because the constraint will always fail. Andy, is > > > your concern that tooling will warn that part of the model is > > > unusable? > > > > > > > > > That is possible. > > > I agree with Juergen that a mandatory empty choice clearly indicates > > > that the module is incomplete > > > and unusable on its own. Is that a feature? > > Yes, making that indication is the whole purpose of adding the > > "mandatory: true" to the empty choice. Note, that I see that the > > "mandatory true" is there to say that every configured subscription > > must have a transport configured, which if true, doesn't seem > > unreasonable. > > Note that the model already has a 'transport' leaf that is mandatory. > > The choice is an explicit placeholder for transport-specific > additional parameters. > > This proposed design is slightly different than the design in > ietf-interfaces; in interfaces we have: > > leaf type { ... } > // type-specific augmentations here > > For example (from the RFC): > > augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" { > when "if:type = 'ianaift:ethernetCsmacd'"; > > container ethernet { > leaf duplex { > ... > } > } > } > > > In the notif model the proposal is: > > leaf transport { ... } > > ... > choice transport-specific-params { > // transport-specific augmentations here > } > > > Note that if the choice is not marked as mandatory, the resulting > model will be less strict / useful compared to using a design like in > the interfaces model (w/o the choice). To demonstrate, suppose we > have a transport 'example-udp' that needs a mandatory 'address' and an > optional 'port'. With the choice we'd have: > > augment '/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver' > + '/sn:transport-specific-params' { > when 'derived-from(../../../../transport, "ex:example-udp")'; > > case example-udp-params { > leaf address { > mandatory true; > ... > } > leaf port { > ... > } > } > } > > If the choice is not mandatory, the model would allow a client to > configure the transport leaf to 'example-udp', but not configure an > address. > > > Without the choice, we'd do: > > augment '/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver' > when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "ex:example-udp")'; > > leaf address { > mandatory true; > ... > } > leaf port { > ... > } > } > > > In this case, or if the choice is mandatory, the model would require > the client to configure an address if the transport is 'example-udp', > which is what we want. > > > But if the choice is marked as mandatory, *all* transports MUST define > some transport-specific parameters, even if that is not needed > (unclear if this will ever happen...) > > > Thus, I prefer Eric's original model w/o the choice. The choice is > supposed to be clever, but might end up being confusing, and I don't > think it adds any value anyway. > > > > > /martin > > > I.e. my main point is that I don't have an issue with > > this generic YANG design. > > > > In this particular instance, I'm also fine if "mandatory: true" is > > left out, but I don't really agree with writing the equivalent of > > "mandatory: true" in the description, that seems like a poor > > compromise. > > > > However, this is probably all bike-shedding. I think that any of the > > discussed solutions is acceptable, as long as it is obvious to the > > readers of the YANG modules that a case statement must be provided for > > it to be useful, and I make the assumption that sane vendors won't > > enable the "configured" feature, if there is no actual way of > > configuring usable subscriptions. > > > > Perhaps Eric can propose his preferred choice, and we can see if > > anyone still objects, otherwise maybe we can move on? > > > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > I have to say that much prefer the option of putting "mandatory: > > > true" in the choice than "MUST provide an implementation" in the > > > description because the former is machine readable whilst the > > > latter is not. > > > > > > However, I would also be fine not to have the "mandatory: true", > > > but with the choice description to state something along the lines > > > that the empty choice is to allow for augmentations of different > > > transports, and configured subscriptions may not be usable unless > > > at least one transport case statement is available." But perhaps > > > some implementation will provide the flexibility of defining a > > > single transport for all subscriptions (if this is feasible). > > > > > > One other observation that could affect the decision here is that > > > YANG allows "mandatory: true" to be removed in a future revision > > > in a backwards compatible way, but doesn't allow it to be added. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Rob > > > > > > > > >> > > >> I prefer the MUST be in the description-stmt for the choice, > > >> instead of "mandatory true". (I prefer SHOULD but if the WG wants > > >> MUST) > > >> > > >> > > >> Andy > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> That would mean that each transport document supporting > > >> configured subscriptions would then augment transport > > >> specific parameters to > > >> "/subscriptions/subscription/receivers/receiver". And > > >> (assuming the "single transport" decision of IETF100 isn't > > >> changed), that the identity "transport" could be leveraged to > > >> enforce that only a single transport specific set of > > >> credentials are associated with a receiver. > > >> > > >> A sample YANG augmentation for NETCONF would then look like: > > >> > > >> module ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications { > > >> > > >> prefix nsn; > > >> > > >> import ietf-netconf-client { prefix ncc; } > > >> import ietf-subscribed-notifications { prefix sn; } > > >> > > >> identity netconf { > > >> base sn:transport; > > >> base sn:inline-address; > > >> description > > >> "NETCONF is used as a transport for notification > > >> messages and > > >> state change notifications."; > > >> } > > >> > > >> augment > > >> "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription/sn:receivers/sn:receiver" { > > >> when 'derived-from(../../../transport, "nsn:netconf")'; > > >> description > > >> "This augmentation allows NETCONF specific parameters > > >> to be > > >> exposed for a receiver."; > > >> leaf netconf-endpoint { > > >> type leafref { > > >> path > > >> "/ncc:netconf-client/ncc:initiate/ncc:netconf-server" + > > >> "/ncc:endpoints/ncc:endpoint/ncc:name"; > > >> } > > >> mandatory true; > > >> description > > >> "Remote client which need to initiate the NETCONF > > >> transport if > > >> an existing NETCONF session from that client is not > > >> available."; > > >> } > > >> } > > >> } > > >> > > >> Which results in: > > >> +--rw subscriptions > > >> +--rw subscription* > > >> +--rw transport transport {configured}? > > >> +--rw receivers > > >> +--rw receiver* > > >> +--rw nsn:netconf-endpoint leafref > > >> > > >> Eric > > >> > > >> > > >> > /js > > >> > > -- > > >> > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > >> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > >> > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > >> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> yang-doctors mailing list > > >> yang-doctors@ietf.org > > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_yang-2Ddoctors&d=DwIFAw&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=nvlGbzwaLflz8fPtIV-iMrmk_M-b_KUsBI5XkyR6OQA&s=O67dhIVon_08t5AfSaVuRD1q-v2D8tAoezbECOsGoHY&e= > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netconf&d=DwIFAw&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=nvlGbzwaLflz8fPtIV-iMrmk_M-b_KUsBI5XkyR6OQA&s=8uwYVApwY6kkzVSQBhp7pYLX9cex7YQ35Dyymf1wK2o&e= > > From nobody Mon Aug 6 14:40:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C9D129385 for ; 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X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2018 08:47:49 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Bjorklund" Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 10:11 AM Robert Wilton wrote: > On 01/08/2018 17:09, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Robert Wilton > wrote: > > On 31/07/2018 21:31, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > >>> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder, July 31, 2018 1:48 PM > >>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 08:41:42PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > >>>> In this case, or if the choice is mandatory, the model would require the client to configure an address if the transport is 'example-udp', which is what we want. But if the choice is marked as mandatory, *all* transports MUST define some transport-specific parameters, even if that is not needed (unclear if this will ever happen...) Thus, I prefer Eric's original model w/o the choice. The choice is supposed to be clever, but might end up being confusing, and I don't think it adds any value anyway. which I think it the key point. Look at the discussion that has been generated on this list, where there is more YANG expertise than almost anywhere else, and wonder how the average implementer will cope with a mandatory, empty choice. Clever, yes, good idea, err no, not for an RFC. Tom Petch /martin From nobody Tue Aug 7 03:06:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3664C126F72; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 03:06:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dOBCBZMFKrUV; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 03:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B360B130DC8; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 03:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9665C1AE0144; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 12:06:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2018 12:06:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180807.120635.1075983444617909744.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lberger@labn.net Cc: mjethanandani@gmail.com, ibagdona@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, netconf-chairs@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <69b94407-c6cb-b53b-fe9b-e24503ae2f35@labn.net> References: <114e3335-a976-4a84-58e0-8817a06324c1@labn.net> <20180802091348.5j3zpf45nzulszva@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <69b94407-c6cb-b53b-fe9b-e24503ae2f35@labn.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call: (YANG Library) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2018 10:06:41 -0000 Hi Lou, Lou Berger wrote: > Sorry about the top post, but in writing the response I realized it > would be good to shift the discussion (and my position) a little. > = > I think the core of this/my issue is having duplication of > requirements, i.e.: > = > in ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis > = > Updates: > = > All NETCONF servers supporting YANG 1.1 [RFC7950 > ] are required to > support YANG Library (seeSection=A05.6.4 of RFC 7950 > ). NETCONF > servers implementing the NETCONF extensions to support the NMDA > [I-D.ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf > ] > MUST implement at least the version > of the YANG library defined in this document. > =A0 Similarly, all > RESTCONF servers are required to support YANG Library (seeSection=A0= 10 > of RFC 8040 ). > RESTCONF servers implementing the RESTCONF extensions > to support the NMDA [I-D.ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf > ] > MUST implement > at least the version of the YANG library defined in this document.= > = > = > in ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf, related to the first part: > = > =A0=A0=A0 Updates: 6241, 7950 > = > =A0=A0 This document also updates [RFC7950] in order to enable NETCON= F > =A0=A0 clients to both discover which datastores are supported by the= > =A0=A0 NETCONF server, as well as determine which modules are support= ed in > =A0=A0 each datastore.=A0 The update requires NETCONF servers impleme= nting > the > =A0=A0 NMDA to support [I-D.ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis]. > = > in ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf, related to the second part of > rfc7895bis > = > =A0=A0=A0 Updates: 8040 > = > =A0=A0 This document updates [RFC8040] in order to enable RESTCONF cl= ients > =A0=A0 to discover which datastores are supported by the RESTCONF ser= ver, > as > =A0=A0 well as determine which modules are supported in each datastor= e > and, > =A0=A0 finally, to interact with all the datastores supported by the = NMDA. > =A0=A0 Specifically, the update introduces new datastore resources, a= dds a > =A0=A0 new query parameter, and requires the usage of > =A0=A0 [I-D.ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis] by RESTCONF servers implementing= the > =A0=A0 NMDA. > = > So the above is problematic in a few ways. > = > 1.=A0 The same requirement is basically spread across multiple > documents, one or the other should contain the requirement, not both.= I fully agree. > 2. The position reflected by the current ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf > text is that it is the authoritative origination of the 7950 impactin= g > text, yet this text uses "require" not "REQUIRES".=A0 So this lead me= to > the conclusion that rfc7895bis is the authoritative source of the > update -- and my comment. > = > 3. (not previously noted) ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf has basically th= e > same comment WRT 8040.=A0 It says its the source of the authoritative= > 8040 impacting text yet the conformance language is in is rfc7895bis > = > I think there are two ways to address this: > = > a) Keep the conformance language in rfc7895bis and note that it > Updates 7950 *and* 8040.=A0 nmda-netconf and nmda-restconf would also= be > modified to remove the update notation and related text. > = > b) move the quoted language from rfc7895bis to nmda-netconf and > nmda-restconf, and leave the updates as is I prefer this option, since I think that this was actually the intention; i.e., the conformance language for NETCONF and RESTCONF should not be in the generic YANG library document, but in the protocol docs. Specifically, I suggest we remove the paragraph below from 7895bis: All NETCONF servers supporting YANG 1.1 [RFC7950] are required to support YANG Library (see Section 5.6.4 of RFC 7950). NETCONF servers implementing the NETCONF extensions to support the NMDA [I-D.ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf] MUST implement at least the version of the YANG library defined in this document. Similarly, all RESTCONF servers are required to support YANG Library (see Section 1= 0 of RFC 8040). RESTCONF servers implementing the RESTCONF extensions= to support the NMDA [I-D.ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf] MUST implement at least the version of the YANG library defined in this document. As for your comment (2) above, note that draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf says: An NMDA-compliant NETCONF server MUST support the operational state datastore and it MUST implement at least revision 201X-XX-XX of the "ietf-yang-library" module defined in [I-D.ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis].= So this document already has the conformance language. (ditto for draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf). /martin > I think either work. While not what I originally suggested, I think > option 2 is a bit cleaner as it keeps the protocol related text in a > protocol document vs in a module definition document. > = > See below for some specific responses below. > = > On 8/2/2018 5:13 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 04:19:41PM -0400, Lou Berger wrote: > > > >> All this means is that=A0 draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis should not= e it > >> updates > >> RFC 7950 in the header and abstract... > > I think there are different interpretations what the Updates: heade= r > > means. And in this case, the "update" is even conditional, i.e., yo= u > > have to implement rfc7895bis if you do implement NMDA - but if you > > don't, then rfc7895 still works just fine. > The point of the updates field is to allow someone implementing a spe= c > to know about other specs that impact implementation.=A0 Optional or > otherwise.=A0 It lets the implementor make an informed choice without= > knowing the whole history or context of an RFC's writing.=A0 I think = the > update notation belongs with the conformance language that impacts th= e > implementation is in this document this is where the updates belong -= - > wherever that ends up. > = > FWIW Getting these update/obsolete fields wrong really hurts those ne= w > to the technology. > = > >> Your read of the update to RFC7950 is that it should now reference= > >> rfc7895bis in Section 5.6.4. Is that correct? How is that differen= t > >> from 7895bis obsoleting 7895, and thus all references to 7895 shou= ld > >> now be to 7895bis? > > It is conditional to the implementation of NMDA. > = > I don't follow you here. but I suspect it's covered by my top post. > = > Lou > > /js > > > = > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Tue Aug 7 03:36:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9931128B14; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 03:36:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cBDZTsnhRIOF; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 03:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2816130DD8; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 03:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 57D621AE0144; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 12:36:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2018 12:36:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180807.123606.2020554339612384789.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: lberger@labn.net, rtg-ads@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf.all@ietf.org, rtg-dir@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <97D5F408-3318-4843-B14C-B9C38DB8B218@juniper.net> References: <7872c72c-cb9a-efcd-578b-fca5beb8ffd6@labn.net> <97D5F408-3318-4843-B14C-B9C38DB8B218@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf-06 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2018 10:36:11 -0000 Hi, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Lou, > > Thanks for your review! > > > Summary: > > > > I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be > > resolved before publication. > > > > Comments: > > > > The document is is generally well written and easy to read. There are > > several places where I'm sure the authors know exactly what they intend, > > but the text could be revised to help along those less familiar with the > > work. There is also one miss-marked RFC Update reference. > > Just to be sure, all these issues are discussed below, right? > > > > Major Issues: > > > > > > > > Minor Issues: > > > > - Cover/Abstract > > Updates: 7950 > > > > The update to > > RFC 7950 requires the usage of I-D.ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis by NETCONF > > servers implementing the Network Management Datastore Architecture. > > > > If I read this and the referenced document correctly, this is saying > > that I-D.ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis updates which version of YANG library > > is supported by implementations RFC7950 that support NMDA. If this is > > the correct reading, this document doesn't update RFC7950, but rather > > I-D.ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis updates 7950. (this omission was noted in a > > separate message.) > > The last paragraph in Section 2 says this: > > This document updates [RFC7950], Section 5.6.4, to allow servers to > advertise the capability :yang-library:1.1 instead of :yang- > library:1.0, and to implement the subtree "/yang-library" > [I-D.ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis] instead of "/modules-state". > > Note that RFC 7950, Section 5.6.4 says: > > A NETCONF server MUST announce the modules it implements (see > Section 5.6.5) by implementing the YANG module "ietf-yang-library" > defined in [RFC7895] and listing all implemented modules in the > "/modules-state/module" list. > > Which is what this document changes. > > > > > - section 3.1.1. > > > > The "config-filter" parameter can be used to retrieve only "config > > true" or "config false" nodes. > > > > also > > leaf config-filter { > > type boolean; > > description > > "Filter for nodes with the given value for their > > 'config' property."; > > } > > > > So this means: > > absent = provide all > > true = provide only true > > false = provide only false > > > > Right? Either way, I think this could be clarified a bit. At least say > > what behavior is expected when the leaf is omitted. > > OLD: > "Filter for nodes with the given value for their > 'config' property."; > NEW: > "Filter for nodes with the given value for their > 'config' property. For example, when set to > 'true', only 'config true' nodes are returned. > When unset, all nodes are returned."; > > Okay? In order to match the rest of the text I suggest: NEW: "Filter for nodes with the given value for their 'config' property. If this leaf is not present, all nodes are selected. For example, when this leaf is set to 'true', only 'config true' nodes are selected."; > > Nits: > > > > - the orders of sections 3.1.1.1. and 3.1.1.2. should be reversed to > > match the module ordering. > > ...or change the order in the module, which I think might be preferred. I suggest we swap 3.1.1.1 and 3.1.1.2. > > - Section 3.1.2: > > > > The "default-operation" parameter is a copy of the > > "default-operation" parameter of the operation. > > > > The "edit-content" choice mirrors the "edit-content" choice of the > > operation. Note, however, that the "config" element in > > the "edit-content" choice of uses "anydata" (introduced > > in YANG 1.1) while the "config" element in the "edit-content" choice > > of used "anyxml". > > > > It's fine to say that these nodes mirror nodes, but this > > document should at least summarize the function of each, e.g., > > The "default-operation" parameter selects the default operation > > for this request. It is a copy.... > > NEW > The "default-operation" parameter selects the default operation to > use. It is a copy of the "default-operation" parameter of the > operation. > > The "edit-content" parameter specifies the content for the edit > operation. It mirrors the "edit-content" choice of the > operation. Note, however, that the "config" element in > the "edit-content" choice of uses "anydata" (introduced > in YANG 1.1) while the "config" element in the "edit-content" choice > of used "anyxml". Ok. I will make these edits to the document. /martin > > > Okay? > > > Thanks, > Kent // co-author > > > > From nobody Tue Aug 7 05:15:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF9012F1A2; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 05:14:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jZeOyR1jm_5F; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 05:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (anna.eecs.jacobs-university.de [IPv6:2001:638:709:5::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E071252B7; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 05:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 039AB23D6938; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 14:14:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 14:14:52 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "gen-art@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180807121452.2c7k7mlwfeoxykoa@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Christer Holmberg , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <16f7bca5d58b4d69a3e1618b8ba9dbf5@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <16f7bca5d58b4d69a3e1618b8ba9dbf5@ericsson.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf-06 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2018 12:15:00 -0000 On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 02:27:36PM +0000, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > >> Related to that, it would also be good to have an interoperability > >> statement, saying that implementations that implement the draft will > >> still work with implementations that do not. > > > > This primarily concerns clients: They need to be able to fallback to > > using instead of and instead of > > if they communicate with a non NMDA NETCONF server. I am > > not sure whether this is a "SHOULD be able to fallback" or a "MUST be > > able to fallback". > > If you use MUST, you guarantee that fallback will always work (assuming implementations follow the spec). If you use SHOULD, I think you'll need some additional discussion on when it doesn't apply, what to do then, etc. > > So, my suggestion (from a reviewer perspective) would be MUST. > I am not sure about this. It is very well possible that in a few years client implementations may require NMDA and instead of trying a fallback they stop if the peer does not support NMDA. The complexity of clients varies widely, ranging from implementations that can hide the complexities behind an API to simple scripts without much fallback complexity. If we write MUST, it will be ignored in practice by a certain fraction of clients. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Aug 7 05:20:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B465130E59; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 05:20:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VjYesMALljX4; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 05:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA7B1252B7; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 05:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 77AE41AE0144; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 14:20:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2018 14:20:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180807.142026.317034485671058801.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: christer.holmberg@ericsson.com, gen-art@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf.all@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20180807121452.2c7k7mlwfeoxykoa@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <16f7bca5d58b4d69a3e1618b8ba9dbf5@ericsson.com> <20180807121452.2c7k7mlwfeoxykoa@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-netconf-06 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2018 12:20:30 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 02:27:36PM +0000, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > > > >> Related to that, it would also be good to have an interoperability > > >> statement, saying that implementations that implement the draft will > > >> still work with implementations that do not. > > > > > > This primarily concerns clients: They need to be able to fallback to > > > using instead of and instead of > > > if they communicate with a non NMDA NETCONF server. I am > > > not sure whether this is a "SHOULD be able to fallback" or a "MUST be > > > able to fallback". > > > > If you use MUST, you guarantee that fallback will always work (assuming implementations follow the spec). If you use SHOULD, I think you'll need some additional discussion on when it doesn't apply, what to do then, etc. > > > > So, my suggestion (from a reviewer perspective) would be MUST. > > > > I am not sure about this. It is very well possible that in a few years > client implementations may require NMDA and instead of trying a > fallback they stop if the peer does not support NMDA. The complexity > of clients varies widely, ranging from implementations that can hide > the complexities behind an API to simple scripts without much fallback > complexity. If we write MUST, it will be ignored in practice by a > certain fraction of clients. I agree. I don't even think we should write SHOULD. IMO we shouldn't make such requirements on the clients at all. /martin From nobody Tue Aug 7 12:05:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60ABB130EDD for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 12:05:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0cSlw1dxiUFs for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 12:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com 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([2601:647:4700:1280:8974:4a32:862b:4705]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g184-v6sm5435851pgc.22.2018.08.07.19.39.01 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 Aug 2018 19:39:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B82E810B-7FB0-4078-8776-F6F4D6F0F45F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 19:39:21 -0700 To: Netconf X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 02:39:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B82E810B-7FB0-4078-8776-F6F4D6F0F45F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In the NETCONF 102 WG meeting, authors presented the following document, = and asked for WG adoption. = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilitie= s-02 = This starts an adoption poll for the above draft. Please indicate your = support or objection to the adoption poll. If objecting, please state = your reasons by responding on this thread. Thanks. Mahesh & Kent. --Apple-Mail=_B82E810B-7FB0-4078-8776-F6F4D6F0F45F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
In the NETCONF 102 WG meeting, authors presented the following document, and asked for WG adoption.


This starts an adoption poll for the above draft. Please indicate your support or objection to the adoption poll. If objecting, please state your reasons by responding on this thread.

Thanks.

Mahesh & Kent.

--Apple-Mail=_B82E810B-7FB0-4078-8776-F6F4D6F0F45F-- From nobody Tue Aug 7 22:19:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F806126CB6 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:19:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CLagoNubgiNX for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x433.google.com (mail-pf1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF6C1124C04 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x433.google.com with SMTP id a26-v6so542164pfo.4 for ; Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:19:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=TKHigxdhv+fdumoahvLZZ6H/4TLlco7x8iIJ3kY8hlA=; b=NN8u51PoXeaTmDBT1qNY+sIy2Lu/a+ys7FYtJXmlY74PSKbSD4Locd2UPwcLc35vrG 3kRHINdv3haua27SFL7trv/Ad3HmvGg3mH/Ub3W6A9ZZYOsEEqc6IGhQUwSOKCXj9/An PXNeOORBvIu273ESE6cHDtsCUo6q0pjw62o2/ZVYy3ejU0srdGJDuE2QsZ6/xAp+WrRw GDaUmSM+gXpD7nKRADXs4sXGvDd6YGb6YpLyBvY/phBqaPLLbgaJH3rQsGKw5jtAnIPv 69/Yex1lhATVzaOCusRzuCSo+3LgqMbBoXqmuRa1S/Og/B9P41pnGgaVa2DYjs7AnOFk ytdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=TKHigxdhv+fdumoahvLZZ6H/4TLlco7x8iIJ3kY8hlA=; b=JNGTTwNbNokNKoC4vG6bbtrJ+WUPlZoPFCO/j7Ze+BLRieYOXLSlbinBc6Q2E5Pd3V NUl3y2Ph9cJpxk86HzT9i91CmTtInO7nc4PrDnoALHg7xjKLPsRvXw7tbLF0XVgYXwkW iiy7fwW748lXpu1fmUlWmp9i64lnDi1d2DCuK3NlBc0fS9946/BaaodiQinXb5e3iW4R 49Ye/fwB3QKNzwSj49cHiPzcRbfFuTOOuv1gAJ76ssfWvjPDhx26FRDsFrXS8hcQT3Dj xctbuelD1khjTVu1s4YzmTM98kn9rhDlx68Fsxe7+HwbtyFjZ6j45D1aYeZjbUKF4VWH k2PA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHKtnUfmdcOQGaWTmnkRWroKuoEN51cX7HX/04vTRNh0GLCBsxW 1DeSytcRVFex+IREcoUeT8SZrxSj X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPyW743Bv+Z+VstrEcfzZANGE5deQsZz7x+liwOFRKn+CzeQwW6FojEM/RB1Xjd5wMXmUYyojA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:f849:: with SMTP id v9-v6mr1064916pgj.71.1533705548098; Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:8974:4a32:862b:4705? ([2601:647:4700:1280:8974:4a32:862b:4705]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j5-v6sm3715319pff.139.2018.08.07.22.19.07 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:19:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8A8C06AE-CA0A-4596-9575-AE3960EA8367" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:19:27 -0700 To: Netconf X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 05:19:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8A8C06AE-CA0A-4596-9575-AE3960EA8367 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In the NETCONF 102 WG meeting, Robert presented the following document = on behalf of Lada, and asked for WG adoption. = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 = This starts an adoption poll for the above draft. Please indicate your = support or objection to the adoption poll. If objecting, please state = your reasons by responding on this thread. Thanks. Mahesh & Kent. --Apple-Mail=_8A8C06AE-CA0A-4596-9575-AE3960EA8367 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
In the NETCONF 102 WG meeting, Robert presented the following document on behalf of Lada, and asked for WG adoption.


This starts an adoption poll for the above draft. Please indicate your support or objection to the adoption poll. If objecting, please state your reasons by responding on this thread.

Thanks.

Mahesh & Kent.


--Apple-Mail=_8A8C06AE-CA0A-4596-9575-AE3960EA8367-- From nobody Tue Aug 7 22:19:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69B5124C04 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:19:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8Z5y1bXrCmGD for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x22d.google.com (mail-pl0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 847D2130DCF for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id t17-v6so484526ply.13 for ; Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:19:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:message-id:date :to; bh=Yg7JDeBH4d1X0IZrL4YJsKhdjq1DFkYJR7vHlfgyC0k=; b=nZvEAi2n91Sao76Zw0zdrqT4/DN99Be8fXn2yVB3lSFtWUvu5/XiLYHwD+nZY6pWAa M6M6ezL3yXrIS5lCJO+8sjvBhMVKV/rKhyceDF5Avg4EA2/T2mVrq2fteJ9K2lNBVBuY bMe2Fr7xWOUn0zF+UHUguuKjP1TMzi9zIHvMVEvTCajgbypKFPUCNMX7M7AzOaOd73aK DLNmNwloN3H04eqWucYkvhIGqLasOZSCC9jFSJx0mMpp8URm/SSW7qUkqeLchrkYxIPi P/hhtdidXiJCe2iVfpXfFVDftfwynWVEMBpn+7NDDtAubdiNhsdEdp47lV5hvhuCoNen rtmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:message-id:date:to; bh=Yg7JDeBH4d1X0IZrL4YJsKhdjq1DFkYJR7vHlfgyC0k=; b=dc5Kxi0c0T9hbnKCIHCDh8MRb4TFHgWA2frfMZLb75R/S3WjPoeC4VavsAYKjdGdbn p2Lea8d9s9d14natVDFG2ZaCLuLccAaOr+/SQ4NVpMxO52NysTK+TCx5wuUZ5iRalay6 Tie4ySkDQxvCEtw/hMw99AFtFI0HFnpoF5r2Du4kEgu+0Ecoh0Ym5sl13VuWIOz4rNJP Jh4cQfEgQ/pcq4lTUEneQeA98/iByt38nyRJbIMBGDdz1D7nH3sqjL59QHB1mzHUpIm8 9SfkfF4S4k9jvuGV9iRlcGue55BuD919Q4FH6K2PESDZmVvYHd+CVx4slVQbKZCsMBnc XK+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEP7Kmz6iWUQGheNTxEIuLM3vcpo2AGpsRA0fr7pVq1JcJRn8Fy 5dpEjL20cDJoihjWvYt24MHwGGnA X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPxXsGuQzBVAboub0iTgjy9C/v/432I5clDLmoYJKWM96VECHYIS9DaMP89w7EGup4eRK5Li8w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6802:: with SMTP id h2-v6mr1131682plk.113.1533705577908; Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:8974:4a32:862b:4705? ([2601:647:4700:1280:8974:4a32:862b:4705]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j5-v6sm3715319pff.139.2018.08.07.22.19.37 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:19:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:19:57 -0700 To: Netconf X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] IPR poll for draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 05:19:40 -0000 This mail starts the IPR poll for = draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to this draft? If so, has this IPR = been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules? Note, you do not have = to be an author or a contributor to make everyone aware of an IPR. See = RFC 3669, 3979, 4879 and 5378 for details. If you are listed as an author on the document, or as a contributor, = please respond to this e-mail, indicating whether or not you are aware = of any relevant IPRs. The response needs to be send to the NETCONF = mailing list. The document will not advance to the next stage until a = response has been received from the author and any contributors.=20 Thanks. Mahesh & Kent. From nobody Tue Aug 7 22:21:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69D2126CB6 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:21:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SzKmEDpfiUIq for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x532.google.com (mail-pg1-x532.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::532]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5067A124C04 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x532.google.com with SMTP id f14-v6so500471pgv.13 for ; Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:21:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:message-id:date :to; bh=G15odUZ9T5y22gB6XkSGyrMrEs6B6UCETZJc92UUrOw=; b=jhcYLvLkVd4iYz7iFLXueULqtmzKWvQSFIE+TL1goQ+HFsTzNhDOXjI/IfDcLlfw/Q Cv7erJEPje0wf1eRxoJjf5Oj1xhdBdqEShPTdnYPGXiDJOww5s6niE0LNrwNNY+p13EL ud4BJReGUg35KUSXT8ejyj8fBvpNgN/F/5GwpbN0uwAj7cbOJx/q1x2wKjbTd2cvX9PK z1mliSz/DhaI8l3al0ME3X6awV+MATeEOACTOkS55LjNnOmF0MmIAUAlz42WLaWvef6v Nkdu1lC3QKx8McfQXFGZ9OlQOGouiGdHtkbdjS/fYbbeSQSAmoFNUhklYLfGckgcuKin pYlg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:message-id:date:to; bh=G15odUZ9T5y22gB6XkSGyrMrEs6B6UCETZJc92UUrOw=; b=rG8NtFkLtMLVn7S12gkpXrbbQMB76I+xWVF5m0ij6IuD52LAFEZr/n0qA4yQMvfV1z fEtq98PRPRt2lDeGr76xO2APQmF89DkWa81nvrsh/GKPBSzb40r/zWpaUjtKm0wjKkC2 AtjPKdLa97Wtccyv07Vd+0UjmZhbPNg1Xg4oxx1sGaoknsLF/xLU+saYF7ZQWYvK6HhG USew9GIDGk77aT/ivUFSB5YZlJr4A5YpLZe+XtKkZyK3/G458Z1CXBWxO4GZXAYX2ggf fLI7tGuagsmJ5KtyXIt3hDVOb+xle6sy0tVyslDhPbSSO3jNhEFHOkOMR7oDoz5j4YxY 9HAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHc3SKws0mX1UftLyXWiViBQenJxDlpnMVIVdVgGIhDdwJ4d95C 0qSRSk/VA+MeAPkb/LSi3z7L3xlj X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPwbdlt/gblsFwNHu7XsHb52zf0cg1oi4pHTDxWsz7qsZKGMPrfire6jYPYcQtHv5lIuu3x9jA== X-Received: by 2002:a62:1756:: with SMTP id 83-v6mr1300613pfx.217.1533705675659; Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:8974:4a32:862b:4705? ([2601:647:4700:1280:8974:4a32:862b:4705]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z184-v6sm4181238pgd.83.2018.08.07.22.21.14 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:21:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: <730F9BDA-5A24-4F16-8FAC-250459E0418C@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:21:34 -0700 To: Netconf X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] IPR poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 05:21:18 -0000 This mail starts the IPR poll for = draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to this draft? If so, has this IPR = been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules? Note, you do not have = to be an author or a contributor to make everyone aware of an IPR. See = RFC 3669, 3979, 4879 and 5378 for details. If you are listed as an author on the document, or as a contributor, = please respond to this e-mail, indicating whether or not you are aware = of any relevant IPRs. The response needs to be send to the NETCONF = mailing list. The document will not advance to the next stage until a = response has been received from all the authors and any contributors.=20 Thanks. Mahesh & Kent. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com= From nobody Tue Aug 7 23:58:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D10A126CB6 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 23:58:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id STgisgTWrt3i for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 23:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32095130DC6 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2018 23:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 57C3D1AE018A; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 08:58:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 08:58:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180808.085812.1249848609556014485.mbj@tail-f.com> To: mjethanandani@gmail.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 06:58:18 -0000 Hi, While I do support the adoption of this document, I wonder if this WG really should add more work. We have ~14 active drafts that we've been working on for a very long time, and they are still not done, mainly b/c of lack of reviews (which is due to the fact that the WG have been busy with other docs). I would prefer that the WG put some effort into finishing the current set of documents before adopting new work. One techincal comment on this draft: I think it is necessary that it lists nodes per datastore. I know that in our implementation, we can easily support on-change for all config true nodes in any conventional configuration datastore, but it requires more work to support all these nodes in operational. I wouldn't be surprised if other implementations are similar. /martin Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > In the NETCONF 102 WG meeting, authors presented the following document, and asked for WG adoption. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 > > This starts an adoption poll for the above draft. Please indicate your support or objection to the adoption poll. If objecting, please state your reasons by responding on this thread. > > Thanks. > > Mahesh & Kent. > From nobody Wed Aug 8 00:37:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356AA130DE6 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 00:36:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EmINaMmbkLvq for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 00:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D606130E78 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 00:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 76D921AE018A; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 09:36:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 09:36:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180808.093646.6873295121240790.mbj@tail-f.com> To: mjethanandani@gmail.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 07:37:01 -0000 Hi, I like the idea of having a "private candidate" or "staging" datastore. However, I don't think the solution in this draft is adequate. Specifically, I don't think we can change the semantics of the existing {+restconf}/data resource. I think a better solution would be to introduce "staging" as a proper NMDA datastore, with associated rpcs (similar to the ones in this draft (*)). This has the advantage that "staging" becomes available not only for RESTCONF, but also for NETCONF. (*) I think that maybe some other operations on "staging" might be useful as well, such as validate and confirmed-commit. When this draft was presented in Montreal, someone made a comment that clients often construct a single message with all changes and send it in one go. This is my experience as well, but even in such environments this capability can be useful for orchestration of network-wide transactions. FWIW, we have a "transaction" capability for NETCONF that has turned out to be very useful (it's been used at least since 2007). It is consists of rpcs to start a transaction towards any datastore, and then it exposes std two-phase commit operations via NETCONF rpcs. This is stateful (tied to the session), so it doesn't work that well for RESTCONF. I would love to see a standard solution that could replace this, and also work for RESTCONF. /martin Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > In the NETCONF 102 WG meeting, Robert presented the following document on behalf of Lada, and asked for WG adoption. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 > > This starts an adoption poll for the above draft. Please indicate your support or objection to the adoption poll. If objecting, please state your reasons by responding on this thread. > > Thanks. > > Mahesh & Kent. > > From nobody Wed Aug 8 18:30:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2BF2130F01 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:30:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cguH_7LrYTiJ for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:30:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24CEC129AB8 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR05MB4840; H:BYAPR05MB4664.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: q0rXtVvuia+4/SEA0o5HzbahugnQmENamcKavAlQkoyZofMmYE8vpsQyNlkURBxT5ifl3zENghsUvoO+e3i+giWYhfflNVX4mh5KYQfVneyARZ19LoyOjUa+4PJclp9cy65en5YIRh0+/bnNOqYvIGXEBMa14N5XKHG5+0KwLkq55g6lPLOsXilRkKutoGyebwTvyCaLjsmz8huUXRoB4uSJcax3ZtpHjZ0++eRW7Ge7+Awrry/lR9NKWM2zmEEg4EPsuKlWuwQKee+UuL13p43jVBUQoZ2mQrWgYDAgnbpDF4h8EJc+5f7uCjvWvz95VfgHKlD2meS7fhSX5NFQtwEgTOEUVaAZ0T17yl/G7PI= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d43688d2-5d45-430b-aa7f-08d5fd97b285 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Aug 2018 01:30:31.8849 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR05MB4840 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-09_01:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808090016 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] issues with processing onboarding information (zerotouch) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 01:30:37 -0000 DQoNCkRlYXIgV0csDQoNCk9uZSBsYXN0IGZvbGxvdy11cCwgSSByZWFsaXplZCB3aGVuIHVwZGF0 aW5nIHRoZSAicHJvZ3Jlc3MtdHlwZSINCmVudW1zIHRoYXQgb3VyIHBsYW4gdG8ganVzdCBoYXZl IGEgImJvb3QtaW1hZ2Utc3VjY2VzcyIgd2FzIG5vdA0KZW5vdWdoLCBiZWNhdXNlIHdpdGggYm9v dCBpbWFnZXMsIHRoZXJlIGlzIHRoZSBodWdlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIG9mOg0KDQogIHdhcyB0aGUgYm9v dCBpbWFnZSBhbHJlYWR5IGluc3RhbGxlZCwgb3Igd2FzIGEgbmV3IGJvb3QgaW1hZ2UNCiAgaW5z dGFsbGVkIGFuZCBhIHJlYm9vdCBpcyBlbWluZW50Lg0KDQpJdCBtYXR0ZXJzIGJlY2F1c2UsIGlu IHRoZSBsYXR0ZXIgY2FzZSwgdGhlIHNlcXVlbmNlIHRvIHByb2dyZXNzLQ0KcmVwb3J0cyB0aGF0 IGJvb3RzdHJhcCBzZXJ2ZXIgaXMgZWZmZWN0aXZlbHkgZW5kZWQsIHdoZXJlYXMgdGhleQ0KbW9y ZSBhcmUgZXhwZWN0ZWQgaW4gdGhlIGZvcm1lciBjYXNlLg0KDQpUaGlzIGJlaW5nIHRoZSBjYXNl LCBJJ20gdGhpbmtpbmcgdG8gZXhjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIHNpbmdsZSBlbnVtOg0KDQogIGJvb3QtaW1h Z2Utc3VjY2Vzcw0KDQp3aXRoIHRoZSBwYWlyIG9mIGVudW1zOg0KDQogIGJvb3QtaW1hZ2UtYWxy ZWFkeS1pbnN0YWxsZWQNCiAgYm9vdC1pbWFnZS1pbnN0YWxsZWQtcmVib290LWVtaW5lbnQNCg0K YW5kIGRlZmluZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBkZXZpY2UgTVVTVCBzZW5kIHRoZSBsYXR0ZXIgaWYgdGhlIGNh c2UgYXJpc2VzLg0KSSdtIG9wZW4gdG8gbGVzcy12ZXJib3NlIG5hbWluZyBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucyBi dXQsIG1vcmUgaW1wb3J0YW50bHksDQphcmUgdGhlcmUgYW55IG9iamVjdGlvbnMgdG8gdGhpcyBw cm9wb3NhbD8gIFtJJ2xsIGFzc3VtZSB0aGF0IHRoaXMNCmlzIG9rYXkgaWYgbm8gb2JqZWN0aW9u cyBhcmUgcmFpc2VkLl0NCg0KUFM6IG9uY2UgSSBwb3N0IC0yMywgc28gdGhhdCB0aGUgZGlmZnMg Y2FuIHNlZW4sIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIFdHDQogICAgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGdpdmVuIG9uZSBtb3JlIGNo YW5jZSB0byByZXZpZXcgdGhlIGNoYW5nZXMsIGJlZm9yZQ0KICAgIGZhbGxpbmcgYmFjayB0byBN YWhlc2ggdG8gcHVzaCB0aGUgYnV0dG9uLg0KDQpQUFM6IEkgYWxzbyByZWNlaXZlZCBhbiBlYXJs eSBTZWN1cml0eSBEaXJlY3RvcmF0ZSByZXZpZXcgdGhhdA0KICAgICBoYXMgc29tZSBvdmVybGFw cGluZyBjb25jZXJucyAoaS5lLiB0aGUgZXJyb3IgaGFuZGxpbmcgaW4NCiAgICAgU2VjdGlvbiA1 LjYpLCBidXQgYWxzbyBzb21lIG90aGVyIHRoaW5ncyAobW9zdGx5IFNlY3VyaXR5DQogICAgIENv bnNpZGVyYXRpb25zKS4gIEknbGwgYmUgc3VyZSB0byBydW4gYW55IG5vbi1lZGl0b3JpYWwNCiAg ICAgY2hhbmdlcyBwYXN0IHRoZSBXRyBhcyB3ZWxsLCBiZWZvcmUgYWxzbyBnb2luZyBpbnRvIC0y My4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KS2VudCAvLyBhdXRob3INCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Aug 8 19:24:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A93130F12 for ; 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Thu, 9 Aug 2018 03:24:06 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM527-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.217]) by DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 10:24:02 +0800 From: wangzitao To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Netconf Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 Thread-Index: AdQvh5MWZTsl9zQ/QmiDZxmUfDP6iA== Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 02:24:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2C2B5615DGGEMM527MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 02:24:14 -0000 --_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2C2B5615DGGEMM527MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgV0csDQpJIGhhdmUgcmVhZCB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGFuZCBJIHN1cHBvcnQgV0cgYWRvcHRp b24gb2YgdGhpcyBkcmFmdC4NCg0KDQpIaSBCYWxhenMgYW5kIEFsZXgsDQpUaGVyZSBhcmUgc29t ZSBjb21tZW50cy4gQXMgbXkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZywgdGhlIKGwaWV0Zi1ub3RpZmljYXRpb24t Y2FwYWJpbGl0aWVzobEgbW9kZWwgY2FuIGJlIHVzZWQgdG8gcHJlc2VudCB0aGUgc2VydmVyoa9z IGJhc2ljIGNhcGFiaWxpdGllcyB0byBpbmRpY2F0ZSB0aGF0IHdoZXRoZXIgaXQgY2FuIHN1cHBv cnQgb24tY2hhbmdlIHB1c2guIElNSE8sIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBzb21lIGNhcGFiaWxpdGllcyB0aGF0 IGFsc28gbmVlZCB0byBiZSBjb25zaWRlcmVkIHRvIHByZXNlbnQsIGZvciBleGFtcGxlOg0KDQot ICAgICAgICAgIFdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIHNlcnZlciBzdXBwb3J0cyChsGV4Y2x1ZGVkLWNoYW5nZaGx Ow0KDQotICAgICAgICAgIFdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIHNlcnZlciBzdXBwb3J0cyChsHN1YnNjcmlwdGlv bi1wcmlvcml0eaGxOw0KDQotICAgICAgICAgIFdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIHNlcnZlciBzdXBwb3J0cyCh sGRhbXBlbmluZy1wZXJpb2ShsSwgZXRjLg0KQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzIQ0KLU1pY2hhZWwNCg0Kt6K8 /sjLOiBOZXRjb25mIFttYWlsdG86bmV0Y29uZi1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIE1haGVz aCBKZXRoYW5hbmRhbmkNCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE4xOo41MI4yNUgMTA6MzkNCsrVvP7IyzogTmV0 Y29uZiA8bmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZz4NCtb3zOI6IFtOZXRjb25mXSBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiBwb2xs IGZvciBkcmFmdC1sZW5neWVsLW5ldGNvbmYtbm90aWZpY2F0aW9uLWNhcGFiaWxpdGllcy0wMg0K DQpJbiB0aGUgTkVUQ09ORiAxMDIgV0cgbWVldGluZywgYXV0aG9ycyBwcmVzZW50ZWQgdGhlIGZv bGxvd2luZyBkb2N1bWVudCwgYW5kIGFza2VkIGZvciBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbi4NCg0KaHR0cHM6Ly90 b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWxlbmd5ZWwtbmV0Y29uZi1ub3RpZmljYXRpb24tY2Fw YWJpbGl0aWVzLTAyDQoNClRoaXMgc3RhcnRzIGFuIGFkb3B0aW9uIHBvbGwgZm9yIHRoZSBhYm92 ZSBkcmFmdC4gUGxlYXNlIGluZGljYXRlIHlvdXIgc3VwcG9ydCBvciBvYmplY3Rpb24gdG8gdGhl IGFkb3B0aW9uIHBvbGwuIElmIG9iamVjdGluZywgcGxlYXNlIHN0YXRlIHlvdXIgcmVhc29ucyBi eSByZXNwb25kaW5nIG9uIHRoaXMgdGhyZWFkLg0KDQpUaGFua3MuDQoNCk1haGVzaCAmIEtlbnQu DQoNCg== --_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2C2B5615DGGEMM527MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi WG,

I have read this document and I suppo= rt WG adoption of this draft.

 

Hi Balazs and Alex,

There are some comments. As my unders= tanding, the =A1=B0ietf-notification-capabilities=A1=B1 model can be used t= o present the server=A1=AFs basic capabilities to indicate that whether it can support on-change push. IMHO, there are some capabilities t= hat also need to be considered to present, for example:

-  = ;        Whether the se= rver supports =A1=B0excluded-change=A1=B1;

-  = ;        Whether the se= rver supports =A1=B0subscription-priority=A1=B1;

-  = ;        Whether the se= rver supports =A1=B0dampening-period=A1=B1, etc.

Best Regards!

-Michael

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8= =CB: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Mahesh Jethanandani
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA8=D4=C28=C8=D5 10:39
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Netconf <netconf@= ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [Netconf] WG adoption poll= for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02

 

In the NETCONF 102 WG meeting, authors presented the= following document, and asked for WG adoption.

 

 

This starts an adoption poll for the above draft. Pl= ease indicate your support or objection to the adoption poll. If objecting,= please state your reasons by responding on this thread.

 

Thanks.

 

Mahesh & Kent.

 

--_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2C2B5615DGGEMM527MBXchi_-- From nobody Thu Aug 9 02:06:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98641130E82 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 02:06:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Nwkvrjirnfe for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 02:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 110A3130ECF for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 02:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2a02:2788:1038:6bd::7]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3ADAB626DC for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 11:06:16 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1533805576; bh=QL9TRITkYm8lWXdn8UNvn2GA5bBczAQUacpgDQzLpDs=; h=From:To:Date; b=WmwNvLAYWX5+vBVa9NiJOUjhkAjFiG79bGUWwPGVV16KNcbpfQvaj4e31pWtdHFlg rKIxRnICaRH4PM5ATSz6qXe1cPWTrxrgKGbIT+ebH30G8z+O019fpQ1jmOlA/OOY4j xvEq7IK5ko8C5u1/RzvnVdepVNlHn6QIF9jystBI= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netconf@ietf.org Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 11:06:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] IPR poll for draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 09:06:20 -0000 Hi, as the author of this document, I am not aware of any IPR relevant to it. Thanks, Lada On Tue, 2018-08-07 at 22:19 -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > This mail starts the IPR poll for draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions- > 00. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to this draft? If so, has this IPR been > disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules? Note, you do not have to be an > author or a contributor to make everyone aware of an IPR. See RFC 3669, 3979, > 4879 and 5378 for details. > > If you are listed as an author on the document, or as a contributor, please > respond to this e-mail, indicating whether or not you are aware of any > relevant IPRs. The response needs to be send to the NETCONF mailing list. The > document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received > from the author and any contributors. > > Thanks. > > Mahesh & Kent. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Thu Aug 9 02:20:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0D5130F0A for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 02:20:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q2VN0iAtQTf6 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 02:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4DFC130E82 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 02:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2a02:2788:1038:6bd::7]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3D9DF60D95 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 11:20:23 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1533806423; bh=B8hP01aXCw9QTMt6gNU3EZWTI51CHZpWitPmQANLvhg=; h=From:To:Date; b=d/UdA4w+p6caGx5jHLB/dVx7dYlbkSl/IVqWailXS0vAvVcke+ofgPd7O5aFHKYwg bg7vmhm1H3P1nbkhxYRDd3pYSVqTx39JFJGiHxDOLGukfxWh1u1IrfZNeaGI7CK3qN MKC1r04SjAb6MCYNHmO6HmTLH4hzW2DzlTfmK1u8= Message-ID: <635cecc27e2046860e8cc869c3ea4c608e5483ed.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netconf@ietf.org Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 11:20:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 09:20:27 -0000 Hi, as the author of this document, I support the adoption. Rob agreed to become a co-author. Thanks, Lada On Tue, 2018-08-07 at 22:19 -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > In the NETCONF 102 WG meeting, Robert presented the following document on > behalf of Lada, and asked for WG adoption. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 > > This starts an adoption poll for the above draft. Please indicate your support > or objection to the adoption poll. If objecting, please state your reasons by > responding on this thread. > > Thanks. > > Mahesh & Kent. > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Thu Aug 9 02:44:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74CBE130F12 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 02:44:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DOh1sHc9o0Mo for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 02:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52D6B130F0A for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 02:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2a02:2788:1038:6bd::7]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C62FA6244A for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 11:44:07 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1533807847; bh=tHOG8R/Hip9/QgS9MqO0LE7ICJwqjyW278Sz+8/SSHc=; h=From:To:Date; b=WzdK6FCzyAScmuHllTDP4/ImT7bxg2yNC/l5JOzEKHjFBSnumx2vVTL4vsni4ms0x Uoa5g0xmdAvaupJsAWO5fEK1LXEtOHiGd4tzBiJkYPElSZYGKMO0K32EUA+3md5USd jUo+H0yJgE3seJxHdChUH2IbC2ZYdU2Wx7zkTf3k= Message-ID: <6e80b426e3e85b52d4ce2b52362504144d4d2725.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netconf@ietf.org Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 11:44:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20180808.093646.6873295121240790.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20180808.093646.6873295121240790.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 09:44:13 -0000 Hi Martin, Rob had similar comments in Montreal, so these issues will certainly be discussed. I am somewhat concerned that exposing the client to various combinations of other datastores will considerably increase the complexity. For example, it is not clear to me how would interact with , if an implementation supports the latter. It is true that the transaction can be mostly prepared on the client side - this is basically the mode of operation of git. However: 1. When the final changes are sent to the server, a conflict may arise, caused by another client concurrently editing the target datastore (as with "git push"). This needs to be addressed in any case. 2. This approach is not suitable for simple clients such as shell scripts or client-side web applications. Lada On Wed, 2018-08-08 at 09:36 +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > I like the idea of having a "private candidate" or "staging" > datastore. However, I don't think the solution in this draft is > adequate. Specifically, I don't think we can change the semantics of > the existing {+restconf}/data resource. > > I think a better solution would be to introduce "staging" as a proper > NMDA datastore, with associated rpcs (similar to the ones in this > draft (*)). This has the advantage that "staging" becomes available > not only for RESTCONF, but also for NETCONF. > > (*) I think that maybe some other operations on "staging" might be > useful as well, such as validate and confirmed-commit. > > > When this draft was presented in Montreal, someone made a comment that > clients often construct a single message with all changes and send it > in one go. This is my experience as well, but even in such > environments this capability can be useful for orchestration of > network-wide transactions. > > > FWIW, we have a "transaction" capability for NETCONF that has turned > out to be very useful (it's been used at least since 2007). It is > consists of rpcs to start a transaction towards any datastore, and > then it exposes std two-phase commit operations via NETCONF rpcs. > This is stateful (tied to the session), so it doesn't work that well > for RESTCONF. I would love to see a standard solution that could > replace this, and also work for RESTCONF. > > > > /martin > > > > > Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > > In the NETCONF 102 WG meeting, Robert presented the following document on > > behalf of Lada, and asked for WG adoption. > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 < > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00> > > > > This starts an adoption poll for the above draft. Please indicate your > > support or objection to the adoption poll. If objecting, please state your > > reasons by responding on this thread. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Mahesh & Kent. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Thu Aug 9 05:33:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C64F130E05 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 05:33:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GZqJf_2tF1pN for ; 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Thu, 9 Aug 2018 12:33:37 +0000 To: "netconf@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen From: "Beauville, Yves (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" Message-ID: <045f9ea9-7cbc-f92c-68d9-ff370cad66e6@nokia.com> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 14:33:31 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: [135.245.212.94] X-ClientProxiedBy: HE1P192CA0001.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:3:fe::11) To AM6PR0702MB3797.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:209:11::30) X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 48eebf37-73d9-4432-5039-08d5fdf454a4 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652040)(8989117)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990107)(5600074)(711020)(4618075)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:AM6PR0702MB3797; X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; 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By this, I mean the client following the last client it was connected to? Here is my use case: * I run a set of clients. * When a client receives a call-home, it needs to accept it - open the NETCONF session - in order to assess whether it wants to continue working with that server or not. * If not, the client releases the connection and expects the server to try and connect to the next client in the list Does this make sense, or have I missed how to realize my use case with the proposed model? Regards Yves From nobody Thu Aug 9 07:38:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CB7F130EE6 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 07:38:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rnX6zQB3PBjl for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 07:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BD82130F74 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 07:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0108158.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w79ETU6i001928; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 07:38:35 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=caxzydooET5V4sQubrqMKXdez8HTKkPGMlgSi/ISJBQ=; b=VbzmoILt8GVuCar4HsYNsUjzGMl3Yb1suCtmhpILtujPEtpG4KiTFgRLPlJN0lyV0D1U o2YloakW+BlSQ10OBhLRXtIuQt/XctmHHZb/oaUVVUYOktvHyLJHb8RxFg1plPM/VbAV mkLo9SYocrj341RYrqvFVrpwWAE5hsE8pNjCSaEvBkQrPSYM484D66YcaLLE6yxhOhLo UCC+RlekDS0uKbq4KoNOpUcm5Xq3hFUdKl3rdB+wDV8Ys33AfcNJqDYibIFJ8rOSBje5 esA7T/Gj94cw0nB/zCZEXYRdf7qI9+UzJJr+OtdyyWU+CaCtzSBj3oEsNagkMulFOMJ9 ig== Received: from nam01-bn3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn3nam01lp0178.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.180.178]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2krgp60w8w-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 09 Aug 2018 07:38:35 -0700 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.109.202) by DM6PR05MB3993.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.71.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1059.9; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 14:38:33 +0000 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1059.010; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 14:38:33 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: tom petch , "rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" , Martin Bjorklund CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? 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Balazs On 8/8/2018 7:21 AM, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > This mail starts the IPR poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to this draft? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules? Note, you do not have to be an author or a contributor to make everyone aware of an IPR. See RFC 3669, 3979, 4879 and 5378 for details. > > If you are listed as an author on the document, or as a contributor, please respond to this e-mail, indicating whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPRs. The response needs to be send to the NETCONF mailing list. The document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from all the authors and any contributors. > > Thanks. > > Mahesh & Kent. > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Senior Specialist Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From nobody Thu Aug 9 09:51:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39BC5127598 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 09:51:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b_qObJ_iTHvs for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B9C6130E41 for ; 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Thu, 09 Aug 2018 09:06:45 -0700 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.109.202) by DM6PR05MB3947.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.66.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1059.9; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 16:06:43 +0000 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1059.010; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 16:06:43 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Martin Bjorklund , "mjethanandani@gmail.com" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 Thread-Index: AQHULsD9DxGRjcaenEy8jHDaoiDafaS1bNUAgAHog4A= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 16:06:43 +0000 Message-ID: <35A31A23-2FFE-4DB0-82FE-C3C54DF9B513@juniper.net> References: <20180808.085812.1249848609556014485.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20180808.085812.1249848609556014485.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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Thu, 9 Aug 2018 17:05:00 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 13:04:59 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 13:04:59 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Kent Watsen , Martin Bjorklund , "mjethanandani@gmail.com" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 Thread-Index: AQHULsD9DxGRjcaenEy8jHDaoiDafaS1bNUAgAHog4CAAFMk0A== Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 17:04:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20180808.085812.1249848609556014485.mbj@tail-f.com> <35A31A23-2FFE-4DB0-82FE-C3C54DF9B513@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <35A31A23-2FFE-4DB0-82FE-C3C54DF9B513@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.234] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.151, xch-rtp-011.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 17:05:04 -0000 > > While I do support the adoption of this document, I wonder if this WG > > really should add more work. We have ~14 active drafts that we've > > been working on for a very long time, and they are still not done, > > mainly b/c of lack of reviews (which is due to the fact that the WG > > have been busy with other docs). I would prefer that the WG put some > > effort into finishing the current set of documents before adopting new > > work. >=20 > This is a good point, and one that I've raised in the past as well. >=20 > I don't mind adopting these drafts now, but I request that the authors re= strain > pushing on them hard until after the current backlog is dealt with. >=20 > Let's focus on getting the zerotouch, yang-push++, and client-server draf= ts > done. That's 12 drafts, and a whole lot of pages! This makes lots of sense. I support adopting the drafts with this caveat. Eric =20 > Kent // chair >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Thu Aug 9 10:55:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78BC9130E8E for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 10:55:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4CXkVsbpL4H6 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 10:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.72.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4558130E78 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 10:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id w79HtBFZ001393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 19:55:13 +0200 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (134.102.43.163) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 19:55:06 +0200 To: References: <20180808.085812.1249848609556014485.mbj@tail-f.com> <35A31A23-2FFE-4DB0-82FE-C3C54DF9B513@juniper.net> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: <09587a87-116f-59ee-80b0-a38f3c24cc7a@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 19:55:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <35A31A23-2FFE-4DB0-82FE-C3C54DF9B513@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [134.102.43.163] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 17:55:21 -0000 I agree with Kent and correspondingly also with the priority sequence in the set of I-Ds - at least wrt YANG Push'esque I-Ds - highlighted by Eric before (a subset of three drafts first, if I remember correctly). Viele Grüße, Henk On 08/09/2018 06:06 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > >> While I do support the adoption of this document, I wonder if this WG >> really should add more work. We have ~14 active drafts that we've >> been working on for a very long time, and they are still not done, >> mainly b/c of lack of reviews (which is due to the fact that the WG >> have been busy with other docs). I would prefer that the WG put some >> effort into finishing the current set of documents before adopting new >> work. > > This is a good point, and one that I've raised in the past as well. > > I don't mind adopting these drafts now, but I request that the > authors restrain pushing on them hard until after the current > backlog is dealt with. > > Let's focus on getting the zerotouch, yang-push++, and client-server > drafts done. That's 12 drafts, and a whole lot of pages! > > Kent // chair > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Thu Aug 9 17:50:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B1F130FF2 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 17:50:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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From: Kent Watsen To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Security Directorate early review of zerotouch draft Thread-Index: AQHUMEQjn7hWFw07k0CfhSgb+EU6xg== Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 00:50:31 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM6PR05MB4426; 6:TfQI1tbwCoxO9wp8WNdsb8igzF4UA8/wVchH2N+agOabR/UeJDCfBorTBSHyRBCK5vuCTXhpnas/iE0ebLQhi05HL0/eFEIxJhGPA43POfkY+yAS0NranSbffD7TLAkPDWg2AX/otY9b25ZzxG3BNHzmuvUK8CRHxmomXh3deb1Rtrljz7s/s0j++brTAsfvXKcsRLndpd59zV8Hj74RKyWdqolTa+uTFXKu3CheViRtXNAtxEjZ96nZLHQtwviue5i+3stRvLjbmWhuPfgPt3+KG/JHaMki3+JOUmzdwdJ1iDH7vUaiB3bwZ89x05p/Mrwl0Xl1GeALV8ErfeT4iXNnyJ9xaIKWAQKE3r75yzcc/N1F82jRUk9EbXo/Hyr3f1gmQGXKeA1dqcGBf7p6fnwMcIUl4AS7Q6DnyECDADZowQvJVoLnFYpnqV7mGDw/OvMqMfESYho3wODtidRhxg==; 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9cdvahfY1Ntl for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 22:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (firewallix.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.247]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4E8130F1E for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 22:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5E0FD23E09AB; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 07:57:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 07:57:36 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180810055736.yfauxa3uoqem2fej@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Security Directorate early review of zerotouch draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 05:57:42 -0000 On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:50:31AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > And thus maybe we should do the following? (the '+' lines): > > yang-data zerotouch-information: > +-- (information-type) > +--:(redirect-information) > | +-- redirect-information > + | +-- not-before? yang:date-and-time > + | +-- not-after? yang:date-and-time > | +-- bootstrap-server* [address] > +--:(onboarding-information) > +-- onboarding-information > + +-- not-before? yang:date-and-time > + +-- not-after? yang:date-and-time > +-- boot-image For the sake of understanding: Since the proposed new leafs are all optional, if they are not set, there is no (lower/upper) restriction? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Aug 10 02:21:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C5F0130DFC for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 02:21:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Fri, 10 Aug 2018 02:21:12 -0700 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.109.202) by DM6PR05MB4283.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.78.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1038.15; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 09:21:09 +0000 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1059.010; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 09:21:09 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Security Directorate early review of zerotouch draft Thread-Index: AQHUMEQjn7hWFw07k0CfhSgb+EU6xqS4fYoAgAA44Hw= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 09:21:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <20180810055736.yfauxa3uoqem2fej@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20180810055736.yfauxa3uoqem2fej@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [96.231.191.4] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM6PR05MB4412; H:DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 3mC7hvnf6XGkpmRXfleKpy+1vWGX8OTuNsAButw6fsDxq9HED0BOtshp4DqSiGMni+I2+2onGGP0hpc/6RzXznQdquUAWAILvqT1O64GmFaiORMT9r19PLqe34RktqglhAI0u88EOhGKxHXuxUuLwH29NxB80wRgj1Fec9jw9rssffGOb0P+ukjNH5kbKXfEVrPSwOYKG12SurV+uV+O0XSeYfd5uPlmrrQDm/f3fTqT5nDwAka9LkEqQ8WtIiFG/x5ODWlRm/2sGj4bwi7M+CkUBWOP0DnX09/c+I4HjsBwVpmTeArykNE8YxUWE047P8wI24PE4jl2IoT6TaNC2ppAUg4HOvIZ/7RJX1ldVcE= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0f29de72-fa60-49f0-473d-08d5feeb226e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Aug 2018 18:00:19.0985 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR05MB4412 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-10_11:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808100192 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Security Directorate early review of zerotouch draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 18:00:23 -0000 DQpEZWFyIFdHLA0KDQpJIGZvcmdvdCB0byByZXNwb25kIHRvIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgcXVlc3Rp b24gZnJvbSB0aGUgU2VjRGlyOg0KDQo+IERvIHlvdSB0aGluayBpdCdzIHdvcnRoIGFkZGluZyBh IHdhcm5pbmcgdG8gb3BlcmF0b3JzIHNvbWV3aGVyZSB0byANCj4gcmVtaW5kIHRoZW0gdG8gY2hh bmdlIHRoZSBmbGFnPyBPciBtYXliZSB0aGUgImRldmljZSBTSE9VTEQgcmVwb3J0IGEgDQo+IHdh cm5pbmcgaWYgdGhlIGJvb3RzdHJhcHBpbmcgY29tcGxldGVzIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWxseSBidXQgemVy b3RvdWNoIA0KPiBib290c3RyYXBwaW5nIGlzIHN0aWxsIGVuYWJsZWQiPw0KDQpGb2N1c2luZyBv biB0aGUgMm5kIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGZpcnN0LCBteSBmaXJzdCB0aG91Z2h0IGlzIHRoYXQgaXQgc2Vl bXMgcmVhc29uYWJsZSwgYnV0IG15IHNlY29uZCB0aG91Z2h0IGlzLCBpZiB0aGUgZGV2aWNlIGlz IGFibGUgdG8gcGVyZm9ybSB0aGlzIHRlc3QsIHRoZW4gaXQgY291bGQgYWxzbyBkaXNhYmxlIHRo ZSBmbGFnIGl0c2VsZiAoZS5nLiwgYXQgdGhlIHRpbWUgaXQgc2VuZHMgdGhlICJib290c3RyYXAt Y29tcGxldGUiIHByb2dyZXNzIHJlcG9ydCkgYW5kLCBpZiB0aGF0J3MgdHJ1ZSwgdGhlbiB0aGUg cHJpbWFyeSByZWFzb24gZm9yIHdoeSB3ZSBoYXZlIHRoZSAiWmVybyBUb3VjaCBEZXZpY2UgRGF0 YSBNb2RlbCIgaW4gQXBwZW5kaXggQSBnb2VzIGF3YXkuICANCg0KU2hvdWxkIGRldmljZXMgc2Vs Zi1kaXNhYmxlIHRoZSBib290c3RyYXBwaW5nIHNlcnZpY2U/DQoNClRoZSBwcmltYXJ5IGRvd25z aWRlIEkgc2VlIGlzIHRoYXQsIGlmIGRldmljZXMgd2VyZSB0byBkaXNhYmxlIHRoZSBzZXJ2aWNl IHRoZW1zZWx2ZXMsIHRoZW4gaXQgaXMgc3RpbGwgbGlrZWx5IHRoYXQgdGhhdCB3aWxsIGJlIGFj Y29tcGxpc2hlZCB2aWEgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbiwgd2hpY2ggd2lsbCB0aHVzIGJlIHJlZmxlY3Rl ZCBhcyBhbm90aGVyICJjb21taXQiIGluIHRoZSBkZXZpY2UgbG9ncy4gIEl0J3MgYSBtaW5vciB0 aGluZywgSU1PLCBidXQgbWF5YmUgb3RoZXJzIGZlZWwgb3RoZXJ3aXNlPw0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpL ZW50IC8vIGF1dGhvcg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Aug 13 00:40:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75597130E64 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:40:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5CfBnco2LIeT for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98491294D0 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D27AA1AE0144; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:40:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:40:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180813.094012.406317912835677937.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <6e80b426e3e85b52d4ce2b52362504144d4d2725.camel@nic.cz> References: <20180808.093646.6873295121240790.mbj@tail-f.com> <6e80b426e3e85b52d4ce2b52362504144d4d2725.camel@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:40:18 -0000 Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi Martin, > > Rob had similar comments in Montreal, so these issues will certainly > be discussed. I am somewhat concerned that exposing the client to > various combinations of other datastores will considerably increase > the complexity. For example, it is not clear to me how > would interact with , if an implementation supports the > latter. Yes this needs to be addressed. (The solution might be that both cannot be used at the same time) > It is true that the transaction can be mostly prepared on the client > side - this is basically the mode of operation of git. However: > > 1. When the final changes are sent to the server, a conflict may arise, caused > by another client concurrently editing the target datastore (as with "git > push"). This needs to be addressed in any case. Agreed. > 2. This approach is not suitable for simple clients such as shell scripts or > client-side web applications. Maybe I wasn't clear - my comment was supposed to support the introduciotn of this new staging capability; I meant that even in the case that the client prepares a single message with all changes, this new staging capability can be useful. /martin > > Lada > > On Wed, 2018-08-08 at 09:36 +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I like the idea of having a "private candidate" or "staging" > > datastore. However, I don't think the solution in this draft is > > adequate. Specifically, I don't think we can change the semantics of > > the existing {+restconf}/data resource. > > > > I think a better solution would be to introduce "staging" as a proper > > NMDA datastore, with associated rpcs (similar to the ones in this > > draft (*)). This has the advantage that "staging" becomes available > > not only for RESTCONF, but also for NETCONF. > > > > (*) I think that maybe some other operations on "staging" might be > > useful as well, such as validate and confirmed-commit. > > > > > > When this draft was presented in Montreal, someone made a comment that > > clients often construct a single message with all changes and send it > > in one go. This is my experience as well, but even in such > > environments this capability can be useful for orchestration of > > network-wide transactions. > > > > > > FWIW, we have a "transaction" capability for NETCONF that has turned > > out to be very useful (it's been used at least since 2007). It is > > consists of rpcs to start a transaction towards any datastore, and > > then it exposes std two-phase commit operations via NETCONF rpcs. > > This is stateful (tied to the session), so it doesn't work that well > > for RESTCONF. I would love to see a standard solution that could > > replace this, and also work for RESTCONF. > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > > > In the NETCONF 102 WG meeting, Robert presented the following document on > > > behalf of Lada, and asked for WG adoption. > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00 < > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netconf-restconf-transactions-00> > > > > > > This starts an adoption poll for the above draft. Please indicate your > > > support or objection to the adoption poll. If objecting, please state your > > > reasons by responding on this thread. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Mahesh & Kent. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Mon Aug 13 03:36:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481EB127598 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 03:36:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wDk1PmiYhJB7 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 03:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC931277BB for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 03:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 993FF1AE0144; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 12:36:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 12:36:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180813.123601.53608699346435534.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <40EF0531-4112-4121-996F-32A030CC9670@juniper.net> References: <40EF0531-4112-4121-996F-32A030CC9670@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] issues with processing onboarding information (zerotouch) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 10:36:05 -0000 Hi, Kent Watsen wrote: > Dear WG, > > Following up on this thread, I'm beginning to make the changes, > but there are a couple items where input would be helpful: > > 1) regarding this: > > > b) Clarify that the scripts MUST also be idempotent, in case > > the bootstrapping process falls into a loop. Alternatively, > > we could introduce a requirement on the scripts to supply > > some sort of clean-up command; then the only state retained > > would ever be the currently running boot-image, which is > > fine. Thoughts? > > What's being discussed here is the case where the script succeeds, > but a subsequent step (e.g., commit) fails. In this case, do we > say: > > a) scripts MUST be idempotent. This sounds good, but I wonder > how possible this is. > > b) scripts MUST supply a clean-up command that removes all state > created by a successful execution of the script. This seems > easier to code. Do you mean that each script takes some kind of (conceptual) input parameter that tells it to clean up the state produced by the previous invocation? Could we instead leave this to implementations? In some environments the server might be able to do the cleanup itself (which would be less error prone). In some other environments the scripts might not even create any state. /martin > > Note: if no objections, I'll go with (b). > > > > 2) regarding this: > > > > Should we add more zerotouch "progress-type" enums, and maybe > > make more of them mandatory? > > > > Details: module ietf-zerotouch-bootstrap-server contains the > > RPC report-progress, which has input leaf "progress-type", > > which is an enumeration. Currently, the enums follow > > this pattern: > > > > - bootstrap-initiated > > - bootstrap-complete > > - -warning > > - -error > > - informational > > > > where has values: parsing, boot-image, pre-script, > > config, and post-script. > > > > a) Should we add additional well-typed values for visibility > > reasons (i.e. more debug information sent to the bootstrap > > server)? Specifically, these two: > > > > - -initiated > > - -success > > > > b) assuming (a), should we make more of the reporting of > > progress mandatory? Currently only "bootstrap-complete" > > is mandatory, with everything else being a SHOULD. > > That kind of says it all, any thoughts on (a) and (b)? > > Note: if no objections, I'll go with (a) only and, for (b), just > make "bootstrap-initiated" mandatory. > > > > Thanks, > Kent // author > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Mon Aug 13 08:15:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4E9130F3E for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 08:15:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 08:15:44 -0700 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.109.202) by DM6PR05MB4827.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.111.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1059.9; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 15:15:40 +0000 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1059.010; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 15:15:40 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] issues with processing onboarding information (zerotouch) Thread-Index: AQHULoGngKlnrNh47kuPE7BK72Z9MaS9hdiAgAALEoA= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 15:15:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <40EF0531-4112-4121-996F-32A030CC9670@juniper.net> <20180813.123601.53608699346435534.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20180813.123601.53608699346435534.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.11] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM6PR05MB4827; H:DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: zOgCCewd2ywh7ddwKkeEwTI0+MiINUF+ozUBpYLMTketrYHP8VIWxaok4yyKEVrqBqqyezVq93IoutEYRTmUPV642s210gR4Q/Ns77+QZXpkO2Tom5fj78MJC/eWNsnZIJMb8HtKbEF9FLF+xSbnjhJDvr+SpDSn6hT9cNAwswHRo/TjNzGrCJq1b1LwlVpLuk5Vg6c7gOkgJ/Mx7GDElDrzBWmTV32+x9mjFh7HCbgAlbjoNm048VL4JnH1cFJanJg8LsZrcDmUOll8cQ/b7Pchz6bmKQxc3S+/j3UtM0RMJu/WaTLQlnU7LBmYOdltlBXZ0167ff5TZAH3Ey2cLF5s6SQnevqF9w05MTlTAa8= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <41935B67DC2845439012B25C46D46A3F@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8b95e8ad-49b8-45a5-3eca-08d6012fa19e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Aug 2018 15:15:40.4866 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR05MB4827 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-13_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808130161 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] issues with processing onboarding information (zerotouch) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 15:15:47 -0000 DQo+IERvIHlvdSBtZWFuIHRoYXQgZWFjaCBzY3JpcHQgdGFrZXMgc29tZSBraW5kIG9mIChjb25j ZXB0dWFsKSBpbnB1dA0KPiBwYXJhbWV0ZXIgdGhhdCB0ZWxscyBpdCB0byBjbGVhbiB1cCB0aGUg c3RhdGUgcHJvZHVjZWQgYnkgdGhlIHByZXZpb3VzDQo+IGludm9jYXRpb24/DQoNClllcywgZXhh Y3RseSwgaXQgd291bGQgYmUgd3JpdHRlbiBhcyBzdWNoLCBzbyBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMgY2Fu IGNob29zZQ0KaG93IHRvIGRvIGl0Lg0KDQoNCj4gQ291bGQgd2UgaW5zdGVhZCBsZWF2ZSB0aGlz IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9ucz8gIEluIHNvbWUgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzDQo+IHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIg bWlnaHQgYmUgYWJsZSB0byBkbyB0aGUgY2xlYW51cCBpdHNlbGYgKHdoaWNoIHdvdWxkIGJlIGxl c3MNCj4gZXJyb3IgcHJvbmUpLiAgSW4gc29tZSBvdGhlciBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMgdGhlIHNjcmlw dHMgbWlnaHQgbm90IGV2ZW4NCj4gY3JlYXRlIGFueSBzdGF0ZS4NCg0KUGVyaGFwcy4gIFRoZSB0 ZXh0IGNvdWxkIGp1c3Qgc2F5ICJ0aGUgZGV2aWNlIG11c3QsIG9uIGVycm9yLCBleGl0IHRoZQ0K Ym9vdHN0cmFwcGluZyBzZXF1ZW5jZSBsZWF2aW5nIGJlaGluZCBubyBzdGF0ZSIuICBJdCB3b3Vs ZCBiZSBnb29kLCBJDQpiZWxpZXZlLCB0byBtZW50aW9uIHRoYXQgc29tZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlv bnMgbWF5IGFjaGlldmUgdGhpcyB0aHJ1IA0KaW5mcmFzdHJ1Y3R1cmUsIHdoZXJlYXMgb3RoZXJz IG1heSByZXF1aXJlIHNjcmlwdHMgdG8gMSkgbGVhdmUgYmVoaW5kDQpubyBzdGF0ZSBvbiBlcnJv ciwgYW5kIDIpIHByb3ZpZGUgYSBjb25jZXB0dWFsICJjbGVhbiB1cCIgcGFyYW1ldGVyIA0KZm9y IHdoZW4gYW4gZXJyb3Igb2NjdXJzIGFmdGVyIGEgc2NyaXB0IGhhZCBleGVjdXRlZCBzdWNjZXNz ZnVsbHkuDQoNCldoYXQgZG8geW91IHRoaW5rPw0KDQpLZW50DQoNCg0K From nobody Tue Aug 14 03:10:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED181292F1 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 03:10:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SSf2vg80Xxad for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 03:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C7AB127148 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 03:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 834601AE0426; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:10:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:10:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180814.121024.510147117520021210.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <40EF0531-4112-4121-996F-32A030CC9670@juniper.net> <20180813.123601.53608699346435534.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] issues with processing onboarding information (zerotouch) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 10:10:29 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > > Do you mean that each script takes some kind of (conceptual) input > > parameter that tells it to clean up the state produced by the previous > > invocation? > > Yes, exactly, it would be written as such, so implementations can choose > how to do it. > > > > Could we instead leave this to implementations? In some environments > > the server might be able to do the cleanup itself (which would be less > > error prone). In some other environments the scripts might not even > > create any state. > > Perhaps. The text could just say "the device must, on error, exit the > bootstrapping sequence leaving behind no state". But even this might not be necessary in some environments. I think this whole notion of dealing with state associated with script execution should be left to implementations to deal with. It would be ok if this document had some kind of Implementation Notes where things like this could be discussed (w/o any 2119 language though). > It would be good, I > believe, to mention that some implementations may achieve this thru > infrastructure, whereas others may require scripts to 1) leave behind > no state on error, and 2) provide a conceptual "clean up" parameter > for when an error occurs after a script had executed successfully. > > What do you think? > > Kent /martin From nobody Tue Aug 14 10:28:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC63130E0A for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 10:28:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Tue, 14 Aug 2018 10:28:20 -0700 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.109.202) by DM6PR05MB4332.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.78.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1059.18; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:28:18 +0000 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1059.010; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:28:18 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Last Call on yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUM/QwQhG4fwKiUkSHvZFCs3Awew== Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:28:17 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM6PR05MB4332; 6:diz+Sc1VFHoukv1a4vkIekPewWpVRINEJplr0sLQQd1noL/6lr/iSLP+SpQh+w+Vm9/twBHEEYiXnWiq63trKILFHJUZ9DAkbdo7oSYIZdc3J/hSM0cDy7iHtC3draelBRizS32ZeeIhq5PZXRfmAUHW57x2tHe5dtD99gZXoFVE58cyQRcIFnXh1w+7450OBFXMOqJWGtdraKJhhJO6l9+FVmFYY92wAEp/wkduyWlxIHtaIhbM9cZsRgIJaCcEQhVs3hE0o0QZKQOc/9ez1sFp0Giv0/wboPPVOsasXCj/v3f+1+EW/pgtjFECYqdSRh8647ytAhFhrMeCY6a0Qi4ECcqpnMj1Mbt0RylgHkOO/8zPApMXrOuj8zLOy5HuAT3Axl6hmC6Gi1gfBRjME+BzN1H56Q1X7l+oi0ZIQvMtPEG4ZEd2rkJA/dTqbVdD0cqxYDDyHXDwy8R4DzbuKw==; 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Tue, 14 Aug 2018 19:50:35 +0000 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1059.010; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 19:50:35 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: tom petch , Martin Bjorklund CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM6PR05MB4314; H:DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 1OxkkkXD1QCiDX3RdstVg04nJ47DsdInHN6bLW1SuFL6ILbvH1p8vvBGIN8VnnzyYHw9W8cAtQVhB1xdEUzWEIkdWzlG2gwxk0I9SIKlyhO9frg/UZAGhc3d9jFbohplVCrTuNhjxfWZhTtqv0mC6Fk6o80+lFfd7uYwxMfMbDQGnhoDrIV83LNy11Wm/aMnhoulsLDZ3xrzPrGJmgtJjF0EPgb//GCwbnLNEJFU3oZwQR28KK2tmuHB66TyA/nGSHLDcf6hqNuNODN/p8VV2oGrQ7GrRXiBhoXdfL4fe0LKEdnugrXtDuqqI85HxUO6o16g0q/w5THhgD1EX/sFUm/zY0EgLNbZy4agtTymWw8= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <42099279EE30D541B599F66FF9A9C469@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a14d471f-bedd-4b48-f2a6-08d60221897d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Aug 2018 20:07:18.2462 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR05MB4314 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-14_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808140202 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] issues with processing onboarding information (zerotouch) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 20:07:23 -0000 DQo+PiBQZXJoYXBzLiAgVGhlIHRleHQgY291bGQganVzdCBzYXkgInRoZSBkZXZpY2UgbXVzdCwg b24gZXJyb3IsIGV4aXQgdGhlDQo+PiBib290c3RyYXBwaW5nIHNlcXVlbmNlIGxlYXZpbmcgYmVo aW5kIG5vIHN0YXRlIi4NCj4NCj4gQnV0IGV2ZW4gdGhpcyBtaWdodCBub3QgYmUgbmVjZXNzYXJ5 IGluIHNvbWUgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiAgSSB0aGluaw0KPiB0aGlzIHdob2xlIG5vdGlvbiBvZiBk ZWFsaW5nIHdpdGggc3RhdGUgYXNzb2NpYXRlZCB3aXRoIHNjcmlwdA0KPiBleGVjdXRpb24gc2hv dWxkIGJlIGxlZnQgdG8gaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zIHRvIGRlYWwgd2l0aC4gIEl0IHdvdWxkIGJl DQo+IG9rIGlmIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgaGFkIHNvbWUga2luZCBvZiBJbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBO b3RlcyB3aGVyZSB0aGluZ3MNCj4gbGlrZSB0aGlzIGNvdWxkIGJlIGRpc2N1c3NlZCAody9vIGFu eSAyMTE5IGxhbmd1YWdlIHRob3VnaCkuDQoNClRoaXMgcGFydGljdWxhciBwb2ludCB3YXMgcmFp c2VkIGJvdGggb2ZmbGluZSBhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIGZyb20gdGhlIFNlY0Rpci4NCkZyb20gU2VjRGly Og0KDQogICIiIg0KICBJIHRoaW5rIGl0J3MgYWxyZWFkeSBjbGVhciB3aGF0IGFuIGVycm9yIGlu IHBhcmFncmFwaCA2IGlzLiBXaGF0IEkgDQogIGZvdW5kIHVuY2xlYXIgd2FzIHdoYXQgdG8gZG8g d2l0aCBlcnJvcnMgaW4gcGFyYWdyYXBocyA2IG9yIDcuIFllcywgDQogIGRvbid0IGdvIG9uIHRv IHRoZSBuZXh0IHN0ZXAsIGJ1dCB3aGF0IGFib3V0OiBJbiBwYXJhZ3JhcGggNiwgc2hvdWxkIA0K ICB0aGUgZGV2aWNlIHJvbGxiYWNrIGFueSBwYXJ0aWFsIGNvbmZpZyB1cGRhdGUgaWYgdGhlcmUn cyBhbiBlcnJvcj8gDQogIEluIHBhcmFncmFwaCA3LCBzaG91bGQgdGhlIGRldmljZSByb2xsYmFj ayBhbGwgY29uZmlnIGZyb20gcGFyYWdyYXBoDQogIDYgaWYgdGhlcmUncyBhbiBlcnJvcj8NCiAg IiIiDQoNClRodXMsIEkgdGhpbmsgd2UgbmVlZCBhdCBsZWFzdCB0aGUgaGlnaC1sZXZlbCBzdGF0 ZW1lbnQuDQoNCg0KS2VudCAvLyBhdXRob3INCg0K From nobody Tue Aug 14 14:17:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B25130DCF for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:17:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iOqAw5rZgSTB for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92046130DC1 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E82151AE0426; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:17:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:17:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180814.231720.2109244537493128545.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20180814.121024.510147117520021210.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] issues with processing onboarding information (zerotouch) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 21:17:25 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > >> Perhaps. The text could just say "the device must, on error, exit the > >> bootstrapping sequence leaving behind no state". > > > > But even this might not be necessary in some environments. I think > > this whole notion of dealing with state associated with script > > execution should be left to implementations to deal with. It would be > > ok if this document had some kind of Implementation Notes where things > > like this could be discussed (w/o any 2119 language though). > > This particular point was raised both offline as well as from the SecDir. > From SecDir: > > """ > I think it's already clear what an error in paragraph 6 is. What I > found unclear was what to do with errors in paragraphs 6 or 7. Yes, > don't go on to the next step, but what about: In paragraph 6, should > the device rollback any partial config update if there's an error? > In paragraph 7, should the device rollback all config from paragraph > 6 if there's an error? > """ But this is a bit different than having cleanup parameters to the scripts. This seems to ask for a clarification that the config must be committed all-or-nothing. I think that it would be good to make this clarification. Also, in your original email in this thread you had c) change how script errors are handled from being "device reset" to "the script MUST not leave behind any state". This removes a potentially expensive reset, by shifting the onus to the script writers to do the right error handling logic. Seems dangerous, but I think that it's fair to assume that the script can be written this way. Ok. OTOH I don't think that the text "the device MUST reset itself in such a way that wipes out any bad state the script may have left behind." implies that the reset is expensive. /martin > Thus, I think we need at least the high-level statement. > > > Kent // author > From nobody Tue Aug 14 14:17:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30778130EF0 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:17:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Pa4eZMPlP42 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43D96130E55 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:17:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=757; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1534281470; x=1535491070; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=rq7C7vxYBCcFoeUCRqzDx4HSipLc20kaDXnV6OBc6d8=; b=OZvCX2pDgzHyjXAbQjKl2p8Xum8xF/hLcVMkX482fmkvabX0BSCCkP4N gkn6UH9aoz7c0O95jlCKkRrn72MZ0mToA04eVNa4vdDQ1Je0XliE9aUKC NoAieAWyqITNymYf9NSbWPH6ETKR2Q6PE3UdaSpacnD30YelW42CbGonw E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C6AQDIRXNb/5pdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYNPY38oCpgrgg2WDYF6CxgLhANGAoMbITUXAQIBAQIBAQJ?= =?us-ascii?q?tHAyFNwEBAQMBAQE4NAsFCwIBCA4oECcLJQIEAQ0FCIMbgXkID7EDilAFiRQ?= =?us-ascii?q?XgUE/hCSDGwEBhxcgAppnCQKPToFWhCuIRJJyAhEUgSQfATWBUnAVO4JpixW?= =?us-ascii?q?FPm+LOoEbAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.53,240,1531785600"; d="scan'208";a="156926152" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Aug 2018 21:17:49 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (xch-rtp-011.cisco.com [64.101.220.151]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w7ELHnMc011766 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Aug 2018 21:17:49 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:17:48 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:17:48 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Kent Watsen , tom petch , "Martin Bjorklund" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? Thread-Index: AQHUJ1ReOwlfbH+3hkGPLp9Bm3apCaS3Rs0AgAgy14CAAFoT4A== Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 21:17:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> <958669b9-c523-3c43-eca4-fbc255fc1bc8@cisco.com> <20180805.111123.2123994471181114333.mbj@tail-f.com> <03f501d42e2a$da6f0500$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.234] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.151, xch-rtp-011.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 21:17:57 -0000 Hi Kent, Before I post the change, there is the question of whether SN Appendix A sh= ould be totally dropped, or whether it should be tweaked and inserted into = NETCONF-Notif. =20 Moving it to NETCONF-Notif would allow SN section 2.5.7 to retain a referen= ce to a non-normative example augmentation without SN becoming dependent on= a document split of RESTCONF-Notif. Eric > No further comments are coming, so it seems that we've reached in end. > I'm glad we had the discussion. >=20 > Eric, please post an updated SN draft without the mandatory choice. >=20 > Kent >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Tue Aug 14 14:54:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE792130DD7 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:54:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JK9GeEMKow1Y for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3757130DC1 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6E8FF1AE0426; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:54:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:54:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180814.235447.386903603331582623.mbj@tail-f.com> To: evoit@cisco.com Cc: kwatsen@juniper.net, ietfc@btconnect.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 21:54:52 -0000 Hi, "Eric Voit (evoit)" wrote: > Hi Kent, > > Before I post the change, there is the question of whether SN Appendix > A should be totally dropped, or whether it should be tweaked and > inserted into NETCONF-Notif. I think an example of what a transport-specific module looks like should be in this document. Adding an example tranport module to the netconf transport draft (that eventually already defines a real transport module) doesn't make much sense. However, the example in this draft should be made for an example transport, rather than for NETCONF. And the module should be named as such. Specifically, it must not be called "ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications", but instead "example-something...". /martin > > Moving it to NETCONF-Notif would allow SN section 2.5.7 to retain a > reference to a non-normative example augmentation without SN becoming > dependent on a document split of RESTCONF-Notif. > > Eric > > > No further comments are coming, so it seems that we've reached in end. > > I'm glad we had the discussion. > > > > Eric, please post an updated SN draft without the mandatory choice. > > > > Kent > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Tue Aug 14 15:03:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23626130DE0 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:03:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PV4KtUSvEBt3 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D389130DC1 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0108157.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w7EM3gwG004607; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:03:44 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=9upfcq85a8cYIFOvhbu8lkVgcC1wEO8HQtHhps6WBo4=; b=oETSvddDXMOcG74Wn5GZMUCsr1TZ8WnGrvdxMFWiZdmkTKizEtl0U3EbaiC1ZrY/FUYF NyQEdki99qXkkpGG/14RzY8+pkbCf8EozNncQPX3UKCpLwr2IyZuhc6omkONI1751hYg fCGrl6xuvEq7y0g/HgvVuLm1U9t9BSturBfh1fZJWJIzLXECzWZs/yiMaFNri9pts2g6 0SDd8XpamjQpbrNWaOTVylO2cJgSgP48eM2xWDW4T9PWkQzhj02IyHTsEpXNOcO4g4vv EKK5VEoXr2eG/b8clgucw+NSYf2Mh147eXruw2DC5z1YzKQmex9QXDSmgnPhE7ueVV+R Pg== Received: from nam04-sn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam04lp0084.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.180.84]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2kv2938hx7-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:03:44 -0700 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.109.202) by DM6PR05MB4539.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.79.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1059.18; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 22:03:42 +0000 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0bc:6a82:571d:258%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1059.010; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 22:03:41 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? Thread-Index: AQHUKbd2gxK9WoMf0kWoD5voFWQc9qS3Rs0AgAgy14CAAFttAP//ycOA Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 22:03:41 +0000 Message-ID: <863624D6-3408-4591-9632-7D08EA1DBEE0@juniper.net> References: <05ee68cd-ccc0-6803-6c71-b3952ee5608d@cisco.com> <958669b9-c523-3c43-eca4-fbc255fc1bc8@cisco.com> <20180805.111123.2123994471181114333.mbj@tail-f.com> <03f501d42e2a$da6f0500$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM6PR05MB4539; 6:phmILoIfsfXbvG0TsQbT2kCGr22fsFVqLaoFHp8WBnEnNrTolxf9fo5BHYxoRzeLzhi630s0LpVh1lHb8+bFY1jH+bIVhVokTlaZ/GXGoySMRQEx8KduqGycAPxafGvcy4GHTXaGCpIAQIFoLOFiF0793BLY7IpNySy2e8AGaDue0HRiZgOGie75uZ0Mjn3y8Io0r5x6grbiTLa0eE35I0EJQHOMloqiaI7OyGTND8CmEpN6zjWFSrIK4CqUw/rOtX2lUv6pyz0fJg3aH8IarXSCEJ6Duy2vO6WKWgYUs97zPpt/XjHkfRp1W9HWRKvVGwT5vtDCLfGkIeur9mGAVWGced6Q8j+ygqKjKp1OTYwbsuLCWuNizEn+DsevRwDIchvlk6Hlzg5jb0t2+il/WRLrxNHMJzeGuSrUs3BMitTKzsa8FY+V/5Psrpph0Ed2VfIhBsDJjVae1VFy7Li3Cw==; 5:6K7CeE5rJ6+4MiDpiB+/cqZxe8vmBxttDdOw6GElvWxIsUVj+3XT+YbpWefEGAmuFfPdeG+NdRPIU8EpNVf/UZfAE3xddfli4f8oa/FoIWUlG+diZPX2rYG4x3V4rPH/wkAMfDtXwe8Rvujl9gtrBg63KAAdCYXBVJAZm7WQlcc=; 7:3B2pK2Jt95s5gI3hiIOYYU0U/5KQav1uyy3T2gVwAq9Kj4DR7Q2OR9uLnwHHLoqL/USllGaEsNQRhVbOVbh3GzRbv9bquR9MRw51ziSA0yYcRaRlLYRTnSXmEDiReYOZyOLNsGVrgyye/ue874beet/3oo23F7x3ndRNDLla4PMlayrkjgAHiZONi5XflpR8BJltHTNDIIKWawuHCTScVeE0MMyOzLPO3m905QgwJN3F+xPzRkFTTmyqM6y4nmNL x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2e6abace-d400-4e0d-a8ea-08d60231cc13 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652040)(8989117)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990107)(5600074)(711020)(4618075)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:DM6PR05MB4539; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR05MB4539: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(6040522)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(93006095)(93001095)(3231311)(944501410)(52105095)(3002001)(10201501046)(6055026)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(20161123560045)(20161123564045)(20161123562045)(20161123558120)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(6072148)(201708071742011)(7699016); SRVR:DM6PR05MB4539; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM6PR05MB4539; x-forefront-prvs: 0764C4A8CD x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39860400002)(396003)(136003)(346002)(376002)(366004)(199004)(189003)(36756003)(478600001)(14454004)(5250100002)(102836004)(93886005)(33656002)(186003)(26005)(6346003)(2616005)(476003)(486006)(6916009)(11346002)(3846002)(256004)(6116002)(2900100001)(82746002)(97736004)(2906002)(5660300001)(446003)(8936002)(6506007)(53936002)(58126008)(86362001)(316002)(6246003)(6436002)(6512007)(25786009)(4326008)(68736007)(106356001)(229853002)(66066001)(6486002)(105586002)(8676002)(99286004)(305945005)(81166006)(81156014)(76176011)(7736002)(83716003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM6PR05MB4539; H:DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: ZEPJ97qyac63W0Q38FJQftW+akUBB+B4FEz43Unk+WUyXCWbANzpZ3VUkUTLjC4bGNqfbciomsBilEvhuxNahXY0yD+32IIIiKiTyFL2+g4jT4/87s/Y/71tHeA3yMyuX3gRroN+LzK6oNq/MReQL46Y/SofRWuqUumcU75G2UMnNDUNmVpBpKh/82T3uFfrBWd7oISwzMWM+yg5QRr75cJ1saIbM4dz3CsfX/O4o42iI6vbGsiMyX3ndolKZ6NtIDyP5XFNV6q5ObbKfoesWZScAWfXNVSE97Okk7sMk1JiluZEcQN/35Q+GT5VipYuNe+0Q2UJcBy4AP2oz6SmyPPLWJnHhfI7smTnzslDR4Y= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2e6abace-d400-4e0d-a8ea-08d60231cc13 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Aug 2018 22:03:41.8536 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR05MB4539 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-14_10:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808140219 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? 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Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:40:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:aa46:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:40:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20180814.231720.2109244537493128545.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20180814.121024.510147117520021210.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180814.231720.2109244537493128545.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:40:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: Kent Watsen , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e135cc05736ce4a5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] issues with processing onboarding information (zerotouch) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 22:40:23 -0000 --000000000000e135cc05736ce4a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > >> Perhaps. The text could just say "the device must, on error, exit the > > >> bootstrapping sequence leaving behind no state". > > > > > > But even this might not be necessary in some environments. I think > > > this whole notion of dealing with state associated with script > > > execution should be left to implementations to deal with. It would be > > > ok if this document had some kind of Implementation Notes where things > > > like this could be discussed (w/o any 2119 language though). > > > > This particular point was raised both offline as well as from the SecDir. > > From SecDir: > > > > """ > > I think it's already clear what an error in paragraph 6 is. What I > > found unclear was what to do with errors in paragraphs 6 or 7. Yes, > > don't go on to the next step, but what about: In paragraph 6, should > > the device rollback any partial config update if there's an error? > > In paragraph 7, should the device rollback all config from paragraph > > 6 if there's an error? > > """ > > But this is a bit different than having cleanup parameters to the > scripts. This seems to ask for a clarification that the config must > be committed all-or-nothing. I think that it would be good to make > this clarification. > > I would prefer to allow vendors some implementation flexibility. The boot procedure can be complex and the "startup" config may be partially derived from internal components. The bootstrap config may in fact be invalid until the system finishes its boot sequence. (i.e., implementation-specific stuff happens to convert to ) Andy Also, in your original email in this thread you had > > c) change how script errors are handled from being "device > reset" to "the script MUST not leave behind any state". > This removes a potentially expensive reset, by shifting > the onus to the script writers to do the right error > handling logic. Seems dangerous, but I think that it's > fair to assume that the script can be written this way. > > Ok. OTOH I don't think that the text "the device MUST reset > itself in such a way that wipes out any bad state the script may have > left behind." implies that the reset is expensive. > > > /martin > > > > > > Thus, I think we need at least the high-level statement. > > > > > > Kent // author > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --000000000000e135cc05736ce4a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Martin Bjorklund <= ;mbj@tail-f.com>= wrote:
Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> = wrote:
>
> >> Perhaps.=C2=A0 The text could just say "the device must,= on error, exit the
> >> bootstrapping sequence leaving behind no state".
> >
> > But even this might not be necessary in some environments.=C2=A0 = I think
> > this whole notion of dealing with state associated with script > > execution should be left to implementations to deal with.=C2=A0 I= t would be
> > ok if this document had some kind of Implementation Notes where t= hings
> > like this could be discussed (w/o any 2119 language though).
>
> This particular point was raised both offline as well as from the SecD= ir.
> From SecDir:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0"""
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think it's already clear what an error in paragraph = 6 is. What I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0found unclear was what to do with errors in paragraphs 6 o= r 7. Yes,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0don't go on to the next step, but what about: In parag= raph 6, should
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0the device rollback any partial config update if there'= ;s an error?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In paragraph 7, should the device rollback all config from= paragraph
>=C2=A0 =C2=A06 if there's an error?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0"""

But this is a bit different than having cleanup parameters to the
scripts.=C2=A0 This seems to ask for a clarification that the config must be committed all-or-nothing.=C2=A0 I think that it would be good to make this clarification.



I would prefer to allow= vendors some implementation flexibility.
The boot procedure can = be complex and the "startup" config may
be partially de= rived from internal components.=C2=A0 The bootstrap config
may in= fact be invalid until the system finishes its boot sequence.
(i.= e., implementation-specific stuff happens to convert <running>
<= div>to <intended>)


Andy
=

Also, in your original email in this thread you had

=C2=A0c) change how script errors are handled from being "device
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 reset" to "the script MUST not leave behind any sta= te".
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This removes a potentially expensive reset, by shifting
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the onus to the script writers to do the right error
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 handling logic.=C2=A0 Seems dangerous, but I think that it= 9;s
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 fair to assume that the script can be written this way.

Ok.=C2=A0 OTOH I don't think that the text "the device MUST reset<= br> itself in such a way that wipes out any bad state the script may have
left behind." implies that the reset is expensive.


/martin




> Thus, I think we need at least the high-level statement.
>
>
> Kent // author
>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

--000000000000e135cc05736ce4a5-- From nobody Wed Aug 15 04:18:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7AF130F58 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 04:18:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ewbUxLKtFaJx for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 04:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB29130E8A for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 04:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E95A1AE0118 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:17:58 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:17:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180815.131758.1464388348783195997.mbj@tail-f.com> To: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 11:18:05 -0000 Hi, Kent Watsen wrote: > This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17: I have reviewed this document, and I think it is almost ready. Here are my comments: o 3.3 The text says: Putting it all together, following is the conceptual process for creating an push-change-update notification: Up until this point, the text has just talked about "update record". Here it says "an push-change-update notification". Maybe simply s/an push-change-update notification/an update record/? o 3.4 The text says: the solution that is defined in this document mandates that a publisher notifies receivers immediately and reliably whenever it encounters a situation in which it is unable to keep the terms of the subscription, and provides the publisher with the option to suspend the subscription in such a case. I think it would help if you could put a forward reference to the mechanism that exists to do this immediate notification. o 3.5.2 The text describes incorrect usage of the "insert" operation; it is only applicable to user ordered lists. Also, there is no reason for special handling of deletion of list entries. (also use the term "list entry" rather than "element"). Hence, I suggest: OLD: A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value of a datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" operation (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new datastore node was created (other than an element in a list), a publisher will indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a datastore node was deleted (other than an element in a list), the publisher indicates this by a "delete". When a new list element was created or removed, the publisher indicates it by an "insert" or "remove", respectively. NEW: A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value of a datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" operation (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new datastore node was created (other than an entry in a user ordered list), a publisher will indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a datastore node was deleted, the publisher indicates this by a "delete". When a new entry in a user ordered list was created, the publisher indicates this by an "insert" operation. o 3.5.2 In the last paragraph, s/"merge"/"replace"/ since the paragraph before just describes "replace", not "merge". Shouldn't the text also mention the operation "move" for user ordered lists? o 3.6 s/Xpath/XPath/ o 3.7 The examples are not quite correct, and I suggest they are modified to not include deprecated nodes: OLD: 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z 1011 eth0 up NEW: 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z 1011 eth0 up OLD: 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z 89 1 edit1 merge /ietf-interfaces:interfaces-state eth0 down NEW: 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z 89 1 edit1 replace /ietf-interfaces:interfaces eth0 down (uses the "replace" operation, fixed xml namespace, don't use interfaces-state) o 3.8 s/establish-subscription-datasore-error-info/ establish-subscription-datastore-error-info/ o 3.8 The text says: In the case of a rejected request for an establishment of a datastore subscription, the hints MUST be transported within a yang-data "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" container Do you mean that *if* there are hints, they MUST be sent within this container, or you mean that on failure, this container MUST be sent? (ditto for modify-subscription-datastore-error-info) (it seems 4.4.1 says that hints SHOULD be included, but Appendix A that they MUST be included) o 3.9 s/RFC8342/RFC8341/ s/rfc6536bis/RFC8341/ o 3.9 It is difficult to relate Figure 5 to the text. Should it be moved to right after the first paragraph? I think it would be useful to add a reference from the text that examplains the "updated access control rules" to the figure. Also, s/update message/update record/ in the figure. o 3.9 The text says: A publisher MAY choose reject an establish-subscription request which selects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or suspend a configured receiver when the authorization privileges of a receiver change, or the access controls for subscribed objects change. Such a capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support a continuous, and total filtering of an entire subscription's content. In these cases above, the error identity "unchanging-selection" SHOULD be returned. "the cases above" refers to (i) terminating a dynamic subscription, or (ii) suspend a configured receiver. What does it mean to "return" an error identity when a subscription is terminated, or suspended? Maybe you meant that the error identity "unchanging-selection" SHOULD be sent in an "subscription-terminated" notification or "subscription-suspended" notification, respectively. If so, the "unchanging-selection" identity should probably also derive from "sn:subscription-suspended-reason". o 3.11.1 The text says: It is not required to merge pending update messages. This can be read as indicating that a server MAY merge pending update messages. I assume that it should say that pending update messages MUST NOT be merged. Also, s/update message/update record/ o 4.2 s/an "excluded-change" flag/an "excluded-change" parameter/ (it is more than just a flag...) o 4.3.2 The second paragraph is a bit confusing. I suggest to simplify: OLD: A "subscription-id" MUST be transported along with the subscribed contents. An [RFC5277] Section 4 one-way notification MAY be used for encoding updates. Where it is, the relevant "subscription-id" MUST be encoded as the first element within each "push-update" or "push-change-update". This allows a receiver to differentiate which subscription resulted in a particular push. NEW: A "subscription-id" is transported along with the subscribed contents. This allows a receiver to differentiate which subscription resulted in a particular push. o 4.4.1 The examples are (still) wrong. OLD: ds:operational 500 NEW: ds:operational /ex:foo 500 OLD: ok 52 NEW: 52 OLD: ds:operational /ex:foo 100 NEW: ds:operational /ex:foo 100 o 4.4.1 REMOVE: o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that corresponds to an identity with a base of "establish-subscription-error". (this app-tag thing was removed from subscribed-notifications) And modify the example accordingly: OLD: application operation-failed error on-change-unsupported /yp:periodic/yp:period NEW: xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> application operation-failed error /yp:periodic/yp:period yp:on-change-unsupported o 4.4.2 The example is wrong: OLD: 1011 ds:operational /ex:bar 250 NEW: 1011 ds:operational /ex:bar 250 o 4.4.2 REMOVE: o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that corresponds to an identity with a base of "modify-subscription-error". o 4.4.5 s/YANG 1.0/YANG 1/ (the version is "1", not "1.0") o 4.4.5 I suggest you remove the sentence: The "/modules-state/module-set-id" leaf in the "ietf-yang-library" module can be used to cache the YANG library information. This is chnaged with yang-library-bis, and the sentence is not really needed in this draft. o 4.4.5 I don't understand what the third paragraph is supposed to tell me. Can it be removed? o 5 In subscribed-notifications, the subscription identifier leaf is called "identifier", in this model it is called "subscription-id" and "identifier". I think the two models should use the same term. Either change this model, or subscribed notifications. Remember to update the examples. o 5 Is it ok to do: operational Probably not, so I suggest making this illegal in the model: augment "/sn:establish-subscription/sn:input" { when "sn:target/yp:datastore"; // NEW statement description "This augmentation adds additional subscription parameters that apply specifically to datastore updates to RPC input."; uses update-policy; } and ditto for all of: augment "/sn:modify-subscription/sn:input" { augment "/sn:subscription-started" { augment "/sn:subscription-modified" { augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription" { and then modify update-policy-modifiable to make the update-trigger choice mandatory: grouping update-policy-modifiable { description "This grouping describes the datastore specific subscription conditions that can be changed during the lifetime of the subscription."; choice update-trigger { mandatory true; // NEW o 5 I have made this comment before. The anydata node "datastore-changes" should be a container that uses the grouping "yang-patch". It is more precise than using anydata and in text explain that the opaque anydata must be yang patch. o 5 identity result-too-big { identity synchronization-size { Why do we need both these errors? Can't we just have a single one, maybe "update-too-big"? (I think that *result-too-big* is a misnomer. If the result of an rpc is too big, the standard error-tag "too-big" should be used.) o 5 Since 3.5.2 specifies that a subset of all operations from YANG patch to be used in push update records, shouldn't the typedef change-type only include this subset? Otherwise, why should a client be able to exclude "merge", when "merge" can never be included? o 9.2 The reference [bergstra2014] is not used and can be removed. o Comment from an earlier review: (the document also uses the term "data object" and "datastore object", these should be fixed) These should both be changed to "datastore node" or "object". /martin From nobody Wed Aug 15 08:09:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031DD130ECA for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 08:09:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8USuL-tzSGUk for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 08:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 325B41252B7 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 08:09:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1451; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1534345773; x=1535555373; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=7KJAOMLhf58nagnVDBlmBlpTdeanm9MdzzNxjJjzp9A=; b=ZiDS4pIT9oQ5ROJzq30ibYZbtiy2OPU2NV4NbqLDFCpLVdCuBNUr60Af 7WnfrlwW5dizYB2T4voDR6mGnxzBXWySdrNv93ZSd+gd7meikCZCbc0pR 5a8168cK0QlSYFhjRXrDYKB6JduJE/mBhlXgCDHkyuO0AYLfH7uUJ8b6J 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CjAQB/QXRb/4wNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYNPY38oCpgkgg2YDQsYC4QDRgKDNCE3FQECAQECAQECbRw?= =?us-ascii?q?MhTcBAQEDAQEBODQJAgULAgEIGB4QJwslAgQOBYMiAYF5CA+xTophBYkUF4I?= =?us-ascii?q?AgTkfgkyDGwEBAoFJFoMygiQCmmsJAo9ZFY4sj29WgjUCERSBJDMigVJwFTs?= =?us-ascii?q?qAYI+PoIPiEiFPm8BjRWBGwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.53,243,1531785600"; d="scan'208";a="157815844" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Aug 2018 15:09:32 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com (xch-rtp-006.cisco.com [64.101.220.146]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w7FF9WBr030630 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:09:32 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-009.cisco.com (64.101.220.149) by XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com (64.101.220.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 11:09:31 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-009.cisco.com ([64.101.220.149]) by XCH-RTP-009.cisco.com ([64.101.220.149]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 11:09:31 -0400 From: "Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn)" To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" CC: Kent Watsen , Martin Bjorklund , "mjethanandani@gmail.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 Thread-Index: AQHULsExvXcDcffAEE2QVtUETiz5NKS1r+MAgAIrloCAABBGAIAJTbYA Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:09:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20180808.085812.1249848609556014485.mbj@tail-f.com> <35A31A23-2FFE-4DB0-82FE-C3C54DF9B513@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.106.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <144505044EFAA949A0FD367744C15D8A@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.146, xch-rtp-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll for draft-lengyel-netconf-notification-capabilities-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:09:35 -0000 I also support adoption with suggested caveats. Cheers, Einar > On 9 Aug 2018, at 18:04, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: >=20 >>> While I do support the adoption of this document, I wonder if this WG >>> really should add more work. We have ~14 active drafts that we've >>> been working on for a very long time, and they are still not done, >>> mainly b/c of lack of reviews (which is due to the fact that the WG >>> have been busy with other docs). I would prefer that the WG put some >>> effort into finishing the current set of documents before adopting new >>> work. >>=20 >> This is a good point, and one that I've raised in the past as well. >>=20 >> I don't mind adopting these drafts now, but I request that the authors r= estrain >> pushing on them hard until after the current backlog is dealt with. >>=20 >> Let's focus on getting the zerotouch, yang-push++, and client-server dra= fts >> done. That's 12 drafts, and a whole lot of pages! >=20 > This makes lots of sense. I support adopting the drafts with this caveat= . >=20 > Eric >=20 >> Kent // chair >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed Aug 15 13:41:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 514FC124BE5; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:41:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <153436566727.3044.11617990935405788736@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:41:07 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-16.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 20:41:08 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Customized Subscriptions to a Publisher's Event Streams Authors : Eric Voit Alexander Clemm Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Ambika Prasad Tripathy Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-16.txt Pages : 76 Date : 2018-08-15 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanisms enabling subscriber-specific subscriptions to a publisher's event streams. Applying these elements allows a subscriber to request for and receive a continuous, custom feed of publisher generated information. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-16 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-16 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-16 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Aug 15 13:57:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CBB4130E1E for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:57:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AaioI5kKrAtL for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6813C130E12 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:57:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2217; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1534366665; x=1535576265; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=b7yBTrJNsD69XP0YJ4MfVHbFBs07IIeDfI9STv7M+Kw=; b=JuxOSesSwQRESoLLZPVb+SNwqp4uzQ41injiwejLQwyR+4pbMDWuyFJj LDz/7ledtvDxxiZPJQgjHwjkxx9mAR6yoeHWsvFeITtxwRjA2pBa4C5Fo mKa4LKOC0DQJqImQoDIoOPuKv6c2vAxasdgDfhSgLCbnP18t4+zZP6viv w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DNAQCMknRb/5xdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYNPY38oCpghgg2WJ4FmCxgLhANGAoM0ITcVAQIBAQIBAQJ?= =?us-ascii?q?tHAyFNwEBAQMBAQE4NAsFCwIBCA4HAx4QJwslAgQBDQUIgxuBeQgPrH2KWwW?= =?us-ascii?q?JFBeBQT+EJIMbAQGBSYVOIAKJWZESCQKPUR2BOoQuiESSegIRFIEkMyKBUnA?= =?us-ascii?q?VO4JpixWFPm+NDoEbAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.53,244,1531785600"; d="scan'208";a="157545667" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Aug 2018 20:57:44 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com (xch-rtp-015.cisco.com [64.101.220.155]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w7FKviZT023217 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Aug 2018 20:57:44 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 16:57:43 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 16:57:43 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Martin Bjorklund , "kwatsen@juniper.net" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? Thread-Index: AQHUJ1ReOwlfbH+3hkGPLp9Bm3apCaS3Rs0AgAgy14CAAFoT4IAAU4OAgAE69bA= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 20:57:43 +0000 Message-ID: <2fddae1d98df4fbb8561bae86bd94d17@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <20180814.235447.386903603331582623.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20180814.235447.386903603331582623.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.234] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.155, xch-rtp-015.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 20:57:47 -0000 Hi Kent, Hi Martin, I posted -v16. This version: (1) Removes the empty mandatory choice "transport" (2) Updates non-normative Appendix A so the example configured transport is= no longer "NETCONF". Instead it is now of transport "Foo". Note: to stop= automated inclusion in IETF model catalogs, I removed the an= d for the augmentation example in Appendix A. If instead eithe= r of you prefer renaming the YANG model to "example-transport-foo", and thi= s renaming would also exclude the model from IETF processes, I am happy to = make such a change. Beyond this, I am not aware of other open issues. Eric > From: Martin Bjorklund, August 14, 2018 5:55 PM >=20 > Hi, >=20 > "Eric Voit (evoit)" wrote: > > Hi Kent, > > > > Before I post the change, there is the question of whether SN Appendix > > A should be totally dropped, or whether it should be tweaked and > > inserted into NETCONF-Notif. >=20 > I think an example of what a transport-specific module looks like should = be in > this document. Adding an example tranport module to the netconf transpor= t > draft (that eventually already defines a real transport module) doesn't m= ake > much sense. >=20 > However, the example in this draft should be made for an example transpor= t, > rather than for NETCONF. And the module should be named as such. > Specifically, it must not be called "ietf-netconf-subscribed-notification= s", but > instead "example-something...". >=20 >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > Moving it to NETCONF-Notif would allow SN section 2.5.7 to retain a > > reference to a non-normative example augmentation without SN becoming > > dependent on a document split of RESTCONF-Notif. > > > > Eric > > > > > No further comments are coming, so it seems that we've reached in end= . > > > I'm glad we had the discussion. > > > > > > Eric, please post an updated SN draft without the mandatory choice. > > > > > > Kent > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Netconf mailing list > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > From nobody Wed Aug 15 14:03:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A889130E12 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:03:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GkmvQlmV-zZA for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B19130E02 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D2991AE0118; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:03:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:03:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180815.230316.1097239410478486890.mbj@tail-f.com> To: evoit@cisco.com Cc: kwatsen@juniper.net, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <2fddae1d98df4fbb8561bae86bd94d17@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <20180814.235447.386903603331582623.mbj@tail-f.com> <2fddae1d98df4fbb8561bae86bd94d17@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 21:03:21 -0000 "Eric Voit (evoit)" wrote: > Hi Kent, > Hi Martin, > > I posted -v16. This version: > > (1) Removes the empty mandatory choice "transport" > > (2) Updates non-normative Appendix A so the example configured > transport is no longer "NETCONF". Instead it is now of transport > "Foo". Note: to stop automated inclusion in IETF model catalogs, I > removed the and for the augmentation example > in Appendix A. If instead either of you prefer renaming the YANG > model to "example-transport-foo", and this renaming would also exclude > the model from IETF processes, I am happy to make such a change. Yes, all example modules that we put into rfcs should be called example-... See section 4.1 in 6087bis. I think Kent had some suggestion for how to name the transport modules, so we should follow that also for this example module. /martin > > Beyond this, I am not aware of other open issues. > > Eric > > > From: Martin Bjorklund, August 14, 2018 5:55 PM > > > > Hi, > > > > "Eric Voit (evoit)" wrote: > > > Hi Kent, > > > > > > Before I post the change, there is the question of whether SN Appendix > > > A should be totally dropped, or whether it should be tweaked and > > > inserted into NETCONF-Notif. > > > > I think an example of what a transport-specific module looks like > > should be in > > this document. Adding an example tranport module to the netconf > > transport > > draft (that eventually already defines a real transport module) > > doesn't make > > much sense. > > > > However, the example in this draft should be made for an example > > transport, > > rather than for NETCONF. And the module should be named as such. > > Specifically, it must not be called > > "ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications", but > > instead "example-something...". > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moving it to NETCONF-Notif would allow SN section 2.5.7 to retain a > > > reference to a non-normative example augmentation without SN becoming > > > dependent on a document split of RESTCONF-Notif. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > No further comments are coming, so it seems that we've reached in end. > > > > I'm glad we had the discussion. > > > > > > > > Eric, please post an updated SN draft without the mandatory choice. > > > > > > > > Kent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > From nobody Thu Aug 16 00:19:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5ED130F8E for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 00:19:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 49uHYcm58ndJ for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 00:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am5eur03on0704.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe08::704]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8724D130EF5 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 00:19:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=djCVryCHxLj/FXS56mzD6P0tE6HnIJvysn7jL/BmZ+M=; b=pR9UXURKn+0eHH2UnlLQ9fqeBibRJXAXvzJ9D9/anZF28iq6jpvoQhsx5XKXPVHPo1sVXJ27ffOjMxO3QoiVjCxEs5YOdazG88SGBTiNzzzRYOPowXbsLn2WyLFxqKsPW9qmdHb7esI/PxxiK9iWGWSHKXrq5Jh036Nh/snCdR0= Received: from AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.82.147) by AM0PR07MB4370.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.133.61.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1059.19; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 07:19:11 +0000 Received: from AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8928:b367:ac4f:3ec4]) by AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8928:b367:ac4f:3ec4%7]) with mapi id 15.20.1059.017; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 07:19:11 +0000 From: "Bogaert, Bart (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: No standard way to deal with a maximum number of NETCONF session supported by a server? Thread-Index: AdQ1MLhXFPcnkaklQyqbt7bchkn1MA== Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 07:19:11 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=bart.bogaert@nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [135.245.212.97] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM0PR07MB4370; 6:jVt++kN8U19BsIFV+vgc9ozGc53TzFRUt/ZN5WNuSfqjrGpd2z5CSK8TEM2g1nU9UehH+jck7t1YfD4TmJ7HA03/nUxDSxEQbLbXY8V+2QKBqcY8VucskBD29akzHYDtiHd0KP7ZVOAAlnmv9k7NNEniM2hw84Ny4//k+eU88aWbKs1wnt97GP0q1bKcOlDhI6TJZwKTkDr1TRKyRElhCwX9s6/Q7P3kzIrnnoBcNssj0hHgxjMainFox2vCIs4lZpLKxesIHNJ7jueTANnnVpht84Cpi9/oUGK1ftjAy7zMbhm6jACwuglty6XXT2ZOhlLQww+NFY4XATLUzdb90vUkyYXy3FpVW1qQUlbot1DmpO2pGqsl8QzPdalwVYYXLS9vKDRLJXiklmXboI7CTR7vAdyVWA2H7SyTCrftQmsucjFmmnClftWhMLBUrIdUcNm8kTS7fpqBH13z1RGBbg==; 5:uPi9vuuW5UtkZnrzHAeQomn47FpF+Q3zIL9MoxvfWPe2Jz0Ml2uWRIxh28c7LzDPcT7PyyWlaFvzEdkbNIg1pXBs0+EG8mMbafoMFTl3DJDxmTT6yzPZnbb141ovgBTJ7DjI5LUZWnshrnL9GIhO9N4cBAa7Nhx4vFnCAJVk5f0=; 7:N8IbdAy6h1/82E0O8WsxitDINTWBgvC03Oxac7SUMTg1GxgCJ42WfqnUtAbtb2W8H+JxnJ7OeOblD/RViLAjdCHWxYSrgBnd+Nciu1MHKYI8uMxwnn1aZxD6ouiX4Ph2fV80pbT4l+0DAii+56m5tMC3K3u7EwHPvgBaM48R9Q7d7Ype4Ef6IqqGR4QSB15gF/ZwTvqQgMhaZkprBz30G/uwnyWSbGBF6v4UdwJjIWCRNtPqj0AxIay+mKSVQv9R x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5676c36f-1e11-46a0-dbf5-08d603489050 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652040)(8989137)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990107)(5600074)(711020)(4618075)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:AM0PR07MB4370; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR07MB4370: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(28532068793085)(158342451672863)(21748063052155); x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(3231311)(11241501184)(806099)(944501410)(52105095)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(10201501046)(6055026)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(20161123562045)(20161123558120)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123564045)(20161123560045)(201708071742011)(7699016); SRVR:AM0PR07MB4370; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM0PR07MB4370; x-forefront-prvs: 07665BE9D1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(346002)(376002)(396003)(136003)(39860400002)(366004)(199004)(189003)(86362001)(6916009)(3846002)(5630700001)(68736007)(8936002)(102836004)(5660300001)(1730700003)(81166006)(186003)(478600001)(81156014)(6116002)(8676002)(2906002)(790700001)(2351001)(9686003)(6436002)(6306002)(54896002)(256004)(55016002)(5640700003)(14454004)(7696005)(105586002)(33656002)(53936002)(97736004)(99286004)(2900100001)(6506007)(74316002)(25786009)(2501003)(26005)(5250100002)(7736002)(486006)(106356001)(476003)(66066001)(316002)(43043002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM0PR07MB4370; H:AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: r8ZBe9QLxAdJz09TEoGlwswHgFHT2FhmjEg+QnJ80b2v+kZ4kuD+/wk7bsHY8/iRjI54q24ah05szP3IU9l5Q46C44f04UsLhxUjAaUJ5JzXFOYIQarnRbzfbOMrfssX+tvT8llliEQsJEzabhltM1JC6y9vIPAJrRSw4XAOFPMuvp0mzN73f+AD5AKasICem3fwSVq9iYmDXC5m9L+iTpE+/H57oUNx8EbxJEp5furqsL14uPBpF56e22zJg2yoBIac1kuDgwCCwVsxHLyfEr7SH6dKTtW0N8yrrWblUcJUwWRvnI2DjLWggi9xRhI4rV42/ieBcQkoKmJlzGOgPJHrHl53aA8LrhJz1ed5TtCrTgJWFUceb8+4EoIY/3ryYtLztZ8Dsg4rsFI1ElWiGg== spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM0PR07MB39390C64E436B2A81DFFCC06943E0AM0PR07MB3939eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5676c36f-1e11-46a0-dbf5-08d603489050 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Aug 2018 07:19:11.2180 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB4370 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] No standard way to deal with a maximum number of NETCONF session supported by a server? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 07:19:24 -0000 --_000_AM0PR07MB39390C64E436B2A81DFFCC06943E0AM0PR07MB3939eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I was looking for some information on how can be dealt with a situation whe= re a server may implement that only a maximum number of parallel NETCONF se= ssions can be supported. With respect to interop between different product= s it would be good to have a common mechanism to deal with a situation like= this. There is nothing mentioned about this in the NETCONF protocol itsel= f and I did not find a suitable error code in the NETCONF error list that c= ould be included as information in the rpc-reply to a hello rpc. Is this situation expected to be dealt with during the connection setup on = the transport level carrying the NETCONF RPCs? Is there any discussion/conclusion that we can refer to for this specific c= ase? Thanks and regards, Bart --_000_AM0PR07MB39390C64E436B2A81DFFCC06943E0AM0PR07MB3939eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I was looking for some informat= ion on how can be dealt with a situation where a server may implement that = only a maximum number of parallel NETCONF sessions can be supported.  = With respect to interop between different products it would be good to have a common mechanism to deal with a situat= ion like this.  There is nothing mentioned about this in the NETCONF p= rotocol itself and I did not find a suitable error code in the NETCONF erro= r list that could be included as information in the rpc-reply to a hello rpc.

 

Is this situation expected to b= e dealt with during the connection setup on the transport level carrying th= e NETCONF RPCs?

 

Is there any discussion/conclus= ion that we can refer to for this specific case?

 

Thanks and regards, Bart

--_000_AM0PR07MB39390C64E436B2A81DFFCC06943E0AM0PR07MB3939eurp_-- From nobody Thu Aug 16 00:36:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55280130EF5 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 00:36:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bFyfPabhhGCg for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 00:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED64130EED for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 00:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 321DB1AE03DD; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:36:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:36:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180816.093607.1945927936537913600.mbj@tail-f.com> To: bart.bogaert@nokia.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] No standard way to deal with a maximum number of NETCONF session supported by a server? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 07:36:11 -0000 Hi, "Bogaert, Bart (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" wrote: > Hi, > > I was looking for some information on how can be dealt with a > situation where a server may implement that only a maximum number of > parallel NETCONF sessions can be supported. With respect to interop > between different products it would be good to have a common mechanism > to deal with a situation like this. There is nothing mentioned about > this in the NETCONF protocol itself and I did not find a suitable > error code in the NETCONF error list that could be included as > information in the rpc-reply to a hello rpc. Note that is not an rpc with an rpc-reply, but sent immediately when the session has been established. Unfortunately, the protocol doesn't have any mechanism for the server to indicate to the client that the session could not be established. It is also not possible to indicate the reason that an established session is terminated, e.g. due to idle timeout or a kill-session. It would have been nice if the server could send an message in these cases. /martin > Is this situation expected to be dealt with during the connection > setup on the transport level carrying the NETCONF RPCs? > > Is there any discussion/conclusion that we can refer to for this > specific case? > > Thanks and regards, Bart From nobody Thu Aug 16 01:26:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C659E130EE3 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 01:26:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4THRuJZGJjpu for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 01:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr30136.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.3.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42D57130EBF for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 01:26:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=HWh+jJLCkPTP+Xouo32saNZOqtJUnaptAyHsVMZgo6o=; b=k9RWnGS+X4GM0aS2jy+mjDdSoVW6JP9Cc3Nrqt1/cCJjFo4hSlAAB5w+X49I/6mPSz/rFN4U/4hAQN3KN9R7PLXGnwgmGwn/q39dmWpd9aNBcZg8106fCqdJuNn+ZokHGNPH5CWRNYJvWR6ov21M8fhmTX9Mf8q297DxRCGAwhA= Received: from AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.82.147) by AM0PR07MB4465.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.135.152.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1059.13; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:26:51 +0000 Received: from AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8928:b367:ac4f:3ec4]) by AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8928:b367:ac4f:3ec4%7]) with mapi id 15.20.1059.017; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:26:51 +0000 From: "Bogaert, Bart (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] No standard way to deal with a maximum number of NETCONF session supported by a server? Thread-Index: AdQ1MLhXFPcnkaklQyqbt7bchkn1MAAAxLmAAAG75GA= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:26:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20180816.093607.1945927936537913600.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20180816.093607.1945927936537913600.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=bart.bogaert@nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [135.245.212.97] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM0PR07MB4465; 6:IwjKSTJ75WdI90f3fPcZVN0eh4rhlrSPcmthlTfq3FQOMfYzpPUjPhs+kKmd8HT86Y4K72C3a05TXoKclWZdUxgFE6f23+QzgjvTEs+v/TPv6dWp734l79AjPgP2QvPGqHF7TxPdg6hPKclHMcmcNTSjxmPYlHamrQ3wzqOeedaVkh31plLY6RaDOtlLzCed/9iGb1EHuKYLrl/T1cQwjAxUnZu2zIO45lnnmKOidGR0TXxWmEMvncZ1Pgb+YyhdzkoJAqVwBz7RSjTcMyyxJt0rNwqsrqilSziZgO3xVU18XEIkGGGK9Ui5r9OzLh2RRDducwjvqBSFV7pliwoFh8RZ2EXf5CVF4KKyVRqxT805MT2LVNjhIdyDww9Y9sEoMsixTbENpcVTynt5YNromozn/+RtnniqbzWoajRlLxdqEH8phTJ5Hbk0AW8JSFcrbiIOhgmOHugarMOyr1BU+Q==; 5:wBKkTppfNuTy5XSOnd6TXYM6gppAkWF4m7XRRkA3VQhzzsIolZCnNRHoE2uFzCY3zjMbBGAL1QdUnZ3JnGTNn/zFszcb0wbMtNaNP/KbeVhClU4mPuLYsLbKlLeqYG+zZwGxBHSfs/+8XCImPvCPz1S9eOmjGwCnAf+0irUIrD4=; 7:LxMiCxo6oPJ87KlIDtsiY6kq9aWt6SbTyQob3JLhxCtKkTel6eZFfEdfztE0KHGkdenOiHwrG9NUoyVV9vwDeWCDqTchvJTFOa1i1Utg6I75hQ2TMthvgLRjq+q+kb86UoclzbvWuSulrxxgEJY1CchihSF1/DFtNSwVGWq0tuyPJzp3meNtImFNGXqMF+uy6A0oUChvYgwvB/eM6vL2gJ46OnOYMbzB/t5vzDvNH3DsuPOhedDYkapncKdd8eIo x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4f6126cf-fbad-4ec7-e61d-08d603520491 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652040)(8989137)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990107)(5600074)(711020)(4618075)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:AM0PR07MB4465; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR07MB4465: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(158342451672863)(82608151540597)(109105607167333)(195916259791689); x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(93006095)(93001095)(10201501046)(3231311)(11241501184)(806099)(944501410)(52105095)(3002001)(6055026)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(20161123560045)(20161123564045)(20161123562045)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123558120)(201708071742011)(7699016); SRVR:AM0PR07MB4465; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM0PR07MB4465; x-forefront-prvs: 07665BE9D1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(136003)(366004)(346002)(396003)(39860400002)(376002)(13464003)(199004)(189003)(51914003)(6116002)(478600001)(6436002)(74316002)(9686003)(55016002)(316002)(68736007)(2906002)(3846002)(66066001)(25786009)(186003)(6506007)(4326008)(33656002)(14454004)(476003)(11346002)(446003)(486006)(6246003)(6916009)(53936002)(86362001)(2900100001)(256004)(99286004)(5250100002)(53546011)(81156014)(81166006)(8676002)(305945005)(229853002)(8936002)(7736002)(102836004)(5660300001)(97736004)(7696005)(76176011)(105586002)(106356001)(26005)(43043002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM0PR07MB4465; H:AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: AFPngXpBzTXETF3ta26IY/33J+3RfQkxu0k/VB62ir5Nql/P6DbA6+gVFttTAXtaz5D3UXPfqDuSHmOjairPpkZHW6vF5tDFpU6NpdxUPK2qny9dUjIFyit+phrgBGaY92rSkRZ7vZreRZ9is24DNIteMLkC8SvhDNMzT96hsnLX6quqcUtZkvYCcxGR/ZrjMeTN29P2t72Nm+qQ5KFcOIy5UL0ebnE12lS6NOwEC+r1qKjwgY6/pgv0YAErUGs8LYJ5nl6XsES+rSey7FUNDtJjLCC+N9synKjCozDlaDswT7oKOTL1K0jaXf5S0uoIZ9JLn0tYaXStBhzjVOtjcO5EXsIJkNyaOkH62/V8G17Yy4RanDQp7pz//7tQSj3HKWr2yO6qRUuo+1EX+S1JvA== spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4f6126cf-fbad-4ec7-e61d-08d603520491 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Aug 2018 08:26:51.7235 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB4465 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] No standard way to deal with a maximum number of NETCONF session supported by a server? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:26:58 -0000 Martin, Thanks for the feedback. Are there any plans to extend this in the protoco= l? Regards, Bart -----Original Message----- From: Martin Bjorklund =20 Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 9:36 AM To: Bogaert, Bart (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] No standard way to deal with a maximum number of NET= CONF session supported by a server? Hi, "Bogaert, Bart (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I was looking for some information on how can be dealt with a=20 > situation where a server may implement that only a maximum number of=20 > parallel NETCONF sessions can be supported. With respect to interop=20 > between different products it would be good to have a common mechanism=20 > to deal with a situation like this. There is nothing mentioned about=20 > this in the NETCONF protocol itself and I did not find a suitable=20 > error code in the NETCONF error list that could be included as=20 > information in the rpc-reply to a hello rpc. Note that is not an rpc with an rpc-reply, but sent immediately whe= n the session has been established. Unfortunately, the protocol doesn't have any mechanism for the server to in= dicate to the client that the session could not be established. It is also not possible to indicate the reason that an established session = is terminated, e.g. due to idle timeout or a kill-session. It would have been nice if the server could send an message in thes= e cases. /martin > Is this situation expected to be dealt with during the connection=20 > setup on the transport level carrying the NETCONF RPCs? >=20 > Is there any discussion/conclusion that we can refer to for this=20 > specific case? >=20 > Thanks and regards, Bart From nobody Thu Aug 16 10:06:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4711D130F1E for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:06:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q1uzLGxzaM8s for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GCC01-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cy1gcc01on0130.outbound.protection.outlook.com [23.103.200.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FA0E130E6A for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:06:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nist.gov; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=od8QaVwhLWJAbbgmXHkHniWCnRk/dOusRZvg6c4iw+0=; b=fHoq/zgzptF9KsETy6VNBJTR+BJIYO4VeB/F9iKP/b3XzdXNEudCJqF7gW7UTa43PyK6n7Zg+A9eb0OYe318+y2k82iSqsnHTvMqyGEolcxshxtU0+5C7ef43P7JMR+PwXMgBkuy/IikslaRIiAop4L49QN2BN/p/z1y8TbyIVE= Received: from DM5PR0901MB2199.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.167.109.39) by DM5PR0901MB2200.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.167.110.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1059.19; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 17:06:11 +0000 Received: from DM5PR0901MB2199.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::191d:980b:6a50:c98f]) by DM5PR0901MB2199.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::191d:980b:6a50:c98f%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1038.025; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 17:06:11 +0000 From: "Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AdQ1fyo2elPaINKJQRCLOgDLTjIRnQ== Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 17:06:11 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [129.6.110.122] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM5PR0901MB2200; 6:cutXNccxQy5DUaAJoXItY/KYqLoX3N/e5xDeQBsi+I6bQr8/LxY0moe+I58MaYEYdQkc1HBlxIZqoIEVjPN5fFDVpyqD4VMWbhad36rsjtvQjFy17xBWM2Szb9mPy7qc1EOo8e7ch7DCIWHt9nzexHmROVgcgpIXqIHhIrVArGQM+Z1j9UTFkStyFLROxnlN5tfd05HT0Yz186/aR70F4WVVi6ElfWJagl1UN5ykiHzNGupQ3S/ZafbJ3md/aIjPOsU4JL2T4Drs/hABJqvGSMGFoEjDkCpTLscCwAIj4yXPW2YBP6X0CA3bvInXGpoyX9wyjXdaTq+CRdY8IsZIbbw8vJA5oWeE+wMdg/xU2KWruHDeCy6CiRYkYfJNC7nHJTBDe1OE9N8ltnHSoZKNBcftDuATbKrMWqXuUkrvswLWv4tetmEf/OHGQQ7ZZwkIMlcaABL8Co/mCutdDQQEdA==; 5:80sUxjV+IT7qHZqV7d/bBaNliIKVMj4tdhuTPkABebkaOcaaaNo51oqTGROt5Q0aGQqo8ArMRG32y1LU7Mb5miBNCi8Ht9Cd1PqvTWnNuMMpYQykoe8JQzQ+8rdP70PC3ouLScNimwCdMy1OP6VLGZK06WUJ9E3J/WDinVSO5oQ=; 7:lkpJM2TpxUm6gl7K5gvSSpWRyzAJCLLHC+JHdOC3d91J+RXRxjJhbGbezkXEH1b6ARiHOTZ/k4sdzLnjlDPEp8bztwRy40jO8rqMcIzkWbM9LAr3FhmORHKW+TK0gYhrks8ZLy2yPchzZrGXp1svAsAt3KSfiqBpZCPrSTfYkN3OT0mdYAbtTuHVQ1k1MuSRgJDzf8w9Ld94wJO0SFcGGnJbcHDiBm0bXbiWWm8D05x0MV474VFFddoRZm0OX3an x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1155453d-17a0-4379-194e-08d6039a9161 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652040)(8989137)(5600074)(711020)(4618075)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990107)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:DM5PR0901MB2200; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR0901MB2200: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=stephen.banghart@nist.gov; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(28532068793085)(158342451672863)(192374486261705)(21748063052155); x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(3231311)(944501410)(52105095)(10201501046)(6055026)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(20161123562045)(20161123560045)(20161123558120)(20161123564045)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(201708071742011)(7699016); SRVR:DM5PR0901MB2200; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM5PR0901MB2200; x-forefront-prvs: 07665BE9D1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(396003)(366004)(136003)(51444003)(189003)(199004)(99286004)(790700001)(55016002)(256004)(66066001)(8676002)(105586002)(14444005)(186003)(5640700003)(5630700001)(26005)(6436002)(68736007)(229853002)(6116002)(3846002)(86362001)(97736004)(74316002)(316002)(81156014)(7696005)(2900100001)(6246003)(1730700003)(81166006)(2351001)(54896002)(6506007)(6916009)(106356001)(7736002)(14454004)(33656002)(486006)(2906002)(476003)(5660300001)(9686003)(53936002)(6306002)(2501003)(5250100002)(8936002)(25786009)(478600001)(102836004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM5PR0901MB2200; H:DM5PR0901MB2199.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nist.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: vx+cpB6smKF26XwBHlJZ82s6QVkPd7dX/88Fo3cvLQPkoy9zPW3ltg7wd6oWbw1WLXXZ5j9aIh5SoZkDsoP4tnHMzuvZ7Ur+BO7+rSHUMG5/BU+ekGu3EgcbKbc/uPAkwu0tWjiYTuazWW9zX5YPZOB0IlKrWCdiCkUsWTPe8cEqaC/iHN0kUQAEKZZdYvzqUjyulXfJXTLMXHD6cCu243YvGjw8k9hFpI/78X2qRDaDDNsCYhtisFQaj2aHttt+AnQj7TN4vlnQnliUOeCH35drPEWErds/4rnJChCAaK361iU2R0Dhd66PtNNVVnnCnz44NiMWBMv11BQ/YUjFCRrSQIWm5yMDA60KZ6cGjUI= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DM5PR0901MB2199850230262D26EF7BB774F03E0DM5PR0901MB2199_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1155453d-17a0-4379-194e-08d6039a9161 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Aug 2018 17:06:11.6848 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR0901MB2200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 17:06:23 -0000 --_000_DM5PR0901MB2199850230262D26EF7BB774F03E0DM5PR0901MB2199_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, I've completed a review of the top level YANG Push draft. I only had a few = minor comments (below) as I reviewed, and I think that the document is read= y to progress. Regards, Stephen Banghart Sections 1-3: Periodic Subscriptions I'd like to see some discussion on how periodic subscription differs from p= olling, or at least how periodic subscription solves (or doesn't solve) the= issues of polling solutions. As a reader, I found myself noting that polli= ng is client requested, and periodic subscriptions are server triggered, bu= t beyond that I don't understand the important differences. This line in th= e Introduction: A more effective alternative to polling is for an application to receive automatic and continuous updates from a targeted subset of a datastore. seems to exclude the time interval periodic case. A sentence in the introdu= ction, or perhaps in the glossary, could address this. Section 2: BCP 14 boilerplate A personal nit for me, I noticed the draft contains both upper and lower ca= se MUSTs, SHOULDs, etc. A reference out to BCP 14 would clarify the intent = behind these words. Section 5: YANG Module Would it be possible to move this module declaration to an Appendix? It's p= lacement in the body of the document pushes IANA and Security Consideration= s to an obscure place in the document. --_000_DM5PR0901MB2199850230262D26EF7BB774F03E0DM5PR0901MB2199_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All,

 

I’ve completed a review of the top level YANG = Push draft. I only had a few minor comments (below) as I reviewed, and I th= ink that the document is ready to progress.

 

Regards,

Stephen Banghart

 

Sections 1-3: Periodic Subscriptions

I’d like to see some discussion on how periodi= c subscription differs from polling, or at least how periodic subscription = solves (or doesn’t solve) the issues of polling solutions. As a reade= r, I found myself noting that polling is client requested, and periodic subscriptions are server triggered, but beyond tha= t I don’t understand the important differences. This line in the Intr= oduction:

 

A more effective alternative to polling is for= an application to

   receive automatic and continuous = updates from a targeted subset of a

   datastore.

 

seems to exclude the time interval periodic case. A = sentence in the introduction, or perhaps in the glossary, could address thi= s.

 

 

Section 2: BCP 14 boilerplate

 

A personal nit for me, I noticed the draft contains = both upper and lower case MUSTs, SHOULDs, etc. A reference out to BCP 14 wo= uld clarify the intent behind these words.

 

 

Section 5: YANG Module

 

Would it be possible to move this module declaration= to an Appendix? It’s placement in the body of the document pushes IA= NA and Security Considerations to an obscure place in the document.

--_000_DM5PR0901MB2199850230262D26EF7BB774F03E0DM5PR0901MB2199_-- From nobody Thu Aug 16 10:59:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E98130F17 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:59:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gVE0QqWk6vkd for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22a.google.com (mail-lj1-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84CB8130E40 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22a.google.com with SMTP id s12-v6so4364170ljj.0 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:59:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=7rX5lKh+P5cQZGNrAY8P3WFxGZkdkXYYdQiNWa/Qa+c=; b=J8CkkvJh7t05q9C3RoWoaTGoMqKdS6mCOjsKZyfCyc+wUO4Yqgc6tFx0yCwvgCu4Dt osTgtOHQ1kd2mBkIthXW45ud5VBj0fiIixYdpPT9wXYG/qWmOd4j5MNlhGKkRRVRa1Fu UxjQ9vaOR4exXvbxrVAN9ki4UwfkrmFVZSHqCkg81F6QMbn6crY4kImq7Cm/Ia9121Yc sVlN7TeiJQEExnhcs1H7G3inBUNpQaKXOijIi51ZHIKVXdjk7AxUOiANpyi+xcesJ8h2 KZOGTCOvZqaSgfxRIwP0g7gdFhm0h3iHvSZL8S4JyJ5of794tmOY5z4VntFCh1lrwpNq ZnOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=7rX5lKh+P5cQZGNrAY8P3WFxGZkdkXYYdQiNWa/Qa+c=; b=fq+KjJnv12i9HKzxQXWd3CV9VdA+TGSjhO3zZYxiqXqPTPCtCpZz/AT2w9IEOMgwUW Fes6Uc7K0nmA3nL0hcWwR90/w4ssx6DS9caCTUDe4bNDjDt2221RqNTGzXydw0YHjHLi 2nVrwm1y1V6PdwhIPdirgIBzuXVKk2NarRJIhLrKxvPp9Kd5VLRNszBM/oZiyEM8Gi1U ZmbpKvxYdLS3yNxt7iMAlr/eewoXCijbybnbq22RFoL9KKLgjVx2rtXaFE+vmxPr+VfO wLVMC8KwukSHZwJwhq+S7WzD/xjREcRMQqarf62whbz3mZhWyghoiMUdQuzJkHmjVw6U ytzQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlFa6s8zrjMGPjzqNpRrsISNO+eIuxtU67h6g+O3c9rzfUOwKMyv RTGxJeisYQtrEYsMep3onSPz4MMvrWWbnsFwWG4EA9vo X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPzz3ykWDbPbe5ghAo4xaDHhDNvDAVqSBZxu5aQ9+Vry9Rhto1NcpeJVJIJ1ISHBteMxVoRJ/wjJ1Z6E73TBpLk= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9a16:: with SMTP id o22-v6mr23313979lji.17.1534442368205; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:59:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:aa46:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:59:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:59:27 -0700 Message-ID: To: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000491102057391345b" Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 17:59:32 -0000 --000000000000491102057391345b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I would like to know if anybody has implemented on-change subscriptions yet. The implementation requirements seem very complex when you consider that every single data node instance in the subscription has its own dampening timer. Edits are not reported sequentially as they occur. Instead every node is tracked and the change may only reported after the dampening period expires. It seems quite possible that nodes can interact (e.g., leafrefs) so that reporting edit Y can depend on previous edit X, which cannot be reported until the end of its dampening period, in the future. So edit Y will be reported before X, and the patch will fail to validate, because the current state of X is incorrect on the receiver. All the state tracking on the server is expensive to implement, and I am not really sure it actually helps the client that much. Andy --000000000000491102057391345b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,


I would like to know= if anybody has implemented on-change subscriptions yet.
The impl= ementation requirements seem very complex when you consider
that = every single data node instance in the subscription has its own
d= ampening timer.

Edits are not reported sequentiall= y as they occur.
Instead every node is tracked and the change may= only reported
after the dampening period expires.=C2=A0 It seems= quite possible that
nodes can interact (e.g., leafrefs) so that = reporting edit Y can
depend on previous edit X, which cannot be r= eported until the
end of its dampening period, in the future. So = edit Y will be reported before X,
and the patch will fail to vali= date, because the current state of X is incorrect
on the receiver= .

All the state tracking on the server is expensiv= e to implement,
and I am not really sure it actually helps the cl= ient that much.


Andy

=
--000000000000491102057391345b-- From nobody Thu Aug 16 11:25:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA587130F1E for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 11:25:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g39nJZ-Ljggk for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 11:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5718128CB7 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 11:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E8E661AE03DD; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 20:25:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 20:25:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180816.202510.1773464823833074414.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 18:25:14 -0000 Hi, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > > I would like to know if anybody has implemented on-change subscriptions yet. > The implementation requirements seem very complex when you consider > that every single data node instance in the subscription has its own > dampening timer. For a configuration datastore, I think it will be quite easy to implement on-change, if it wasn't for dampening. Now, dampening probably is not that interesting for a configuration datastore. Maybe it should be possible for the server to reject requests with a dampening period in this case? > Edits are not reported sequentially as they occur. > Instead every node is tracked and the change may only reported > after the dampening period expires. It seems quite possible that > nodes can interact (e.g., leafrefs) so that reporting edit Y can > depend on previous edit X, which cannot be reported until the > end of its dampening period, in the future. So edit Y will be reported > before X, > and the patch will fail to validate, because the current state of X is > incorrect > on the receiver. > > All the state tracking on the server is expensive to implement, > and I am not really sure it actually helps the client that much. > > > Andy /martin From nobody Thu Aug 16 13:08:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5794B130F26 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:08:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dfOxrUER4B4y for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x244.google.com (mail-lj1-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85841130E22 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x244.google.com with SMTP id y17-v6so4632088ljy.8 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:08:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nJyvZlcVm8Ggefe4as8+JshB8BZGkpYepW++R26H8i0=; b=1H0WCldBjwC7JQLSwL0eK+mFUZu7YYvVLxjEv31a9MktxvYYpMnywGumF7DXfh5RlE SgVH5trtNSqTUjYj4LjXcS7nn7niA9cU1Zy001gfHC4/Rtq8LMtcBo2q+A3vQWXmX3oH Q34m3fy+RGROzeEJ0kdZ2fO9izX/acTMA8+bGH/LNwE6YrdQsBaD8U+wBpwaFQE6e8QZ U1jP9l1tz/r4H5zg2xPUWKpw2gk9WYs6o0LlTo2kfRfwpAjluYIz362UzfPdn9aSUStN ZEx4szLnRZ/itCeaJg3DUeB27DazDIyg1zibD6dHgtj0FeF8ZA/R8toM70p0hyL8uslf zfIw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nJyvZlcVm8Ggefe4as8+JshB8BZGkpYepW++R26H8i0=; b=hXeX339p4cEYJkssWrCWMook2fhoHeMIHBYBKOmPEBPpb4J374RlefapJY5ASczPw5 4p78V+yzh8AZ5ww/yN45lfTpvGRmg2OZ4XS/+OaPwNz/cuD5ERyY+urtPfVoIWJhqmfN JNr6B+PgY/xz0e5inyM1CoWJnsysb8UnRIbhadZz6LAERwq6UzSDg7bwXgdUXQh/ssHC fg8Ve+dJlxgGdxeyOCVPJ6vQpV6HqZL9cnBQvZ/+4e2GFeDT9ssKxy6cJHkgzZbQC3VM 8IqpmaqbYkS+TOhDXRqUBG0ddwEiG960pczTpyj+ymERpp6dkJ4wRv0xi6QXBCysRGxj mhxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEsTYB8FxWWy/IZ/NBgHdZqqqk2F2WXsyOx5ggXpsthxsQDIxKP Cxo9N8UTO1SOyXkFikH+LFA5X8bv+VNgupw0mCM7a5Hk X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPzif0hdlhYGxIC0apcrnFplzkF3LdNVqY2klE+1UL7OyiUxavHjhqdVbT0T5WI0sjcgx8Z7JgxeXgNw8g6PDH4= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9a16:: with SMTP id o22-v6mr23585977lji.17.1534450125653; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:08:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:aa46:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:08:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20180816.202510.1773464823833074414.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20180816.202510.1773464823833074414.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:08:44 -0700 Message-ID: To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aa6b9605739302f1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 20:08:49 -0000 --000000000000aa6b9605739302f1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:25 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > Hi, > > > > > > I would like to know if anybody has implemented on-change subscriptions > yet. > > The implementation requirements seem very complex when you consider > > that every single data node instance in the subscription has its own > > dampening timer. > > For a configuration datastore, I think it will be quite easy to > implement on-change, if it wasn't for dampening. Now, dampening > probably is not that interesting for a configuration datastore. Maybe > it should be possible for the server to reject requests with a > dampening period in this case? > > The dampening parameter is mandatory-to-implement for the server. I suspect there will be many restrictions that may be difficult for the client to predict. For example, will servers really implement a timer or detect changes at the leaf level? One timer per list or container is bad enough. I doubt firmware will report statistics updates at the leaf level. I can imagine developers ignoring what the RFC says and using 1 timer per subscription or 1 timer per container/list (at most). A very useful compromise is for the server to implement a periodic update, except do not send anything unless there was a change (so on-change sends at most 1 update per period, where periodic always sends 1 update per period) > Edits are not reported sequentially as they occur. > > Instead every node is tracked and the change may only reported > > after the dampening period expires. It seems quite possible that > > nodes can interact (e.g., leafrefs) so that reporting edit Y can > > depend on previous edit X, which cannot be reported until the > > end of its dampening period, in the future. So edit Y will be reported > > before X, > > and the patch will fail to validate, because the current state of X is > > incorrect > > on the receiver. > > > > All the state tracking on the server is expensive to implement, > > and I am not really sure it actually helps the client that much. > > > > > > Andy > > > /martin > Andy --000000000000aa6b9605739302f1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:25 AM, Martin Bjorklund &l= t;mbj@tail-f.com>= ; wrote:
Hi,

Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I would like to know if anybody has implemented on-change subscription= s yet.
> The implementation requirements seem very complex when you consider > that every single data node instance in the subscription has its own > dampening timer.

For a configuration datastore, I think it will be quite easy to
implement on-change, if it wasn't for dampening.=C2=A0 Now, dampening probably is not that interesting for a configuration datastore.=C2=A0 Maybe=
it should be possible for the server to reject requests with a
dampening period in this case?



<= div>For example, will servers really implement a timer or detect changes at= the leaf level?

where periodic always sends 1 update per period)


> Edits are not reported sequentially as they occur.
> Instead every node is tracked and the change may only reported
> after the dampening period expires.=C2=A0 It seems quite possible that=
> nodes can interact (e.g., leafrefs) so that reporting edit Y can
> depend on previous edit X, which cannot be reported until the
> end of its dampening period, in the future. So edit Y will be reported=
> before X,
> and the patch will fail to validate, because the current state of X is=
> incorrect
> on the receiver.
>
> All the state tracking on the server is expensive to implement,
> and I am not really sure it actually helps the client that much.
>
>
> Andy


/martin



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[Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions Thread-Index: AQHUNYrrYY6ak73XnEaGYzSznDnmOaTC1vHA Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 20:49:09 +0000 Message-ID: <80ca22045b7045fe9b72b3b90ac2610b@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.234] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_80ca22045b7045fe9b72b3b90ac2610bXCHRTP013ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.155, xch-rtp-015.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 20:49:13 -0000 --_000_80ca22045b7045fe9b72b3b90ac2610bXCHRTP013ciscocom_ 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HTTP; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 18:32:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <80ca22045b7045fe9b72b3b90ac2610b@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <80ca22045b7045fe9b72b3b90ac2610b@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 18:32:56 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" Cc: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000fb45f0573978a8a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 01:33:02 -0000 --0000000000000fb45f0573978a8a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > Hi Andy, > > > > Cisco has on-change implemented, and has been in production since January= : > > https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/ios-xml/ios/prog/ > configuration/167/b_167_programmability_cg/model_driven_telemetry.html > > > > A dampening period is optional (based on your earlier comments). And the > dampening period is per subscription rather than per object. Cisco doesn= =E2=80=99t > have code at this time for dampened changes. > > > The dampening period is per subscription because to do otherwise leads to extreme resource use and many corner-cases that require even more resources to resolve. IMO the "per object" dampening should be removed from the draft and it should be per-subscription instead. As a client developer, I would rather have consistent server implementations than unimplemented requirements causing lots of variance in server implementations (all vendors trying to pick their own reasonable subset). It will be more efficient and easier to manage for the client to set up multiple subscriptions, manually managing on-change data-sets. Even if there is one spinning counter that causes the whole subscription to be updated, this will cause the on-change to degrade to periodic delivery, containing the spinning counter and whatever else changed in the dampening period. Most importantly, this does not require massive resources to implement and does not have out-of-order corner-cases that can occur with per-object dampening. > Eric > Andy > > > *From:* Netconf *On Behalf Of *Andy Bierman > *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2018 1:59 PM > *To:* Netconf > *Subject:* [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I would like to know if anybody has implemented on-change subscriptions > yet. > > The implementation requirements seem very complex when you consider > > that every single data node instance in the subscription has its own > > dampening timer. > > > > Edits are not reported sequentially as they occur. > > Instead every node is tracked and the change may only reported > > after the dampening period expires. It seems quite possible that > > nodes can interact (e.g., leafrefs) so that reporting edit Y can > > depend on previous edit X, which cannot be reported until the > > end of its dampening period, in the future. So edit Y will be reported > before X, > > and the patch will fail to validate, because the current state of X is > incorrect > > on the receiver.. > > > > All the state tracking on the server is expensive to implement, > > and I am not really sure it actually helps the client that much. > > > > > > Andy > > > --0000000000000fb45f0573978a8a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) &l= t;evoit@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:

Hi Andy,

=C2=A0

Cisco has on-change implemented, and = has been in production since January:

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/<= wbr>td/docs/ios-xml/ios/prog/configuration/167/b_167_programmabil= ity_cg/model_driven_telemetry.html

=C2=A0

A dampening period is optional (based= on your earlier comments).=C2=A0 And the dampening period is per subscript= ion rather than per object.=C2=A0 Cisco doesn=E2=80=99t have code at this time for dampened changes.

=C2=A0

<= /blockquote>


The dampening period is per = subscription because to do otherwise leads to extreme resource use
and many corner-cases that require even more resources to resolve.
<= div>
IMO the "per object" dampening should be remov= ed from the draft and it should be per-subscription instead.
As a= client developer, I would rather have consistent server implementations th= an unimplemented requirements
causing lots of variance in server = implementations (all vendors trying to pick their own reasonable subset).

It will be more efficient and easier to manage for = the client to set up multiple subscriptions,
manually managing on= -change data-sets.=C2=A0 Even if there is one spinning counter that causes<= /div>
the whole subscription to be updated, this will cause the on-chan= ge to degrade to periodic delivery,
containing the spinning count= er and whatever else changed in the dampening period.

<= div>Most importantly, this does not require massive resources to implement = and does not have out-of-order
corner-cases that can occur with p= er-object dampening.



=C2=A0

Eric



Andy
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org>= ; On Behalf Of Andy Bierman
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 1:59 PM
To: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Subject: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions

=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I would like to know if anybody has implemented on-c= hange subscriptions yet.

The implementation requirements seem very complex wh= en you consider

that every single data node instance in the subscrip= tion has its own

dampening timer.

=C2=A0

Edits are not reported sequentially as they occur.

Instead every node is tracked and the change may onl= y reported

after the dampening period expires.=C2=A0 It seems q= uite possible that

nodes can interact (e.g., leafrefs) so that reportin= g edit Y can

depend on previous edit X, which cannot be reported = until the

end of its dampening period, in the future. So edit = Y will be reported before X,

and the patch will fail to validate, because the cur= rent state of X is incorrect

on the receiver..

=C2=A0

All the state tracking on the server is expensive to= implement,

and I am not really sure it actually helps the clien= t that much.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0


--0000000000000fb45f0573978a8a-- From nobody Fri Aug 17 00:48:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AABB412F295 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 00:48:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5MBkUD9Hs0wm for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 00:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEA02126BED for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 00:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 642A01AE018A; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 09:48:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 09:48:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180817.094825.1996509847038799743.mbj@tail-f.com> To: evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <80ca22045b7045fe9b72b3b90ac2610b@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <80ca22045b7045fe9b72b3b90ac2610b@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 07:48:31 -0000 SGksDQoNCiJFcmljIFZvaXQgXChldm9pdFwpIiA8ZXZvaXQ9NDBjaXNjby5jb21AZG1hcmMuaWV0 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IEkNCj4gPiBhbSBub3QgcmVhbGx5IHN1cmUgaXQgYWN0dWFsbHkgaGVscHMgdGhlIGNsaWVudCB0 aGF0IG11Y2guDQo+ID4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IEFuZHkNCj4gPg0K From nobody Fri Aug 17 07:08:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC60E127B92 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 07:08:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7TErbpRjVsCv for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 07:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA816126DBF for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 07:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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ZSBpdCBhY3R1YWxseSBoZWxwcyB0aGUgY2xpZW50IHRoYXQgbXVjaC4NCj4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPg0K PiA+ID4gQW5keQ0KPiA+ID4NCg== From nobody Sat Aug 18 10:22:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E08130ED2 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2018 10:22:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j5G-HGn47zgs for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2018 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10:22:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:aa46:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Aug 2018 10:22:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20180817.160806.1319182991643096746.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <80ca22045b7045fe9b72b3b90ac2610b@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180817.094825.1996509847038799743.mbj@tail-f.com> <6e228976514f4e4c9e5fb7b3ff36a0ed@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180817.160806.1319182991643096746.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 10:22:35 -0700 Message-ID: To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000028c46c0573b8ec1e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 17:22:42 -0000 --00000000000028c46c0573b8ec1e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I would like to clarify sec. 3.3. para 5. The text is confusing wrt/ the dampening period is per-object or per-subscription. Once an update record for a given object is generated, no other updates for this particular subscription will be created until the end of the dampening period. Values sent at the end of the dampening period are the current values of all changed objects which are current at the time the dampening period expires. The first sentence makes me think the dampening period is per-object, but the 2nd sentence seems the say "the" dampening period (meaning 1 of them) applies to "all changed objects". Suggest: OLD: Once an update record for a given object is generated, NEW: Once an update record for any object in the subscription is generated, Andy On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > "Eric Voit (evoit)" wrote: > > > From: Martin Bjorklund, August 17, 2018 3:48 AM > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > "Eric Voit \(evoit\)" wrote: > > > > A dampening period is optional > > > > > > How do you mean? There is no if-feature on the "dampening-period", > > > and no > > > text indicating that a server can reject a request with a > > > "dampening-period". > > > AFAICT from the draft, the dampening feature must be implemented by a > > > server. > > > > While the "dampening-period" object must be supported by the RPC, that > > doesn't mean the platform needs to implement subscription dampening. > > This can be accomplished by a dampening period of "0" being returned > > as a hint. (Per section 3.2: "Such hints include ... acceptable > > dampening periods...". ) Using just the hint for conveying this info > > rather than the hint plus advertisement of an option feature > > "dampening" simplifies the interface. > > > > If you are ok with it, Alex could tweak the following text in the > > draft: > > > > (1) For the definition of leaf 'period-hint' in the YANG model: > > > > OLD: "Returned when the requested time period is too short. This hint > > can assert a viable period for either a periodic push cadence or an > > on-change dampening interval."; > > > > NEW: "Returned when the requested time period cannot be > > supported. This hint can assert a viable period for either a periodic > > push cadence or an on-change dampening interval. In the case of > > dampening not being supported, a 'period-hint' of '0' must be > > returned. "; > > Ok. The definition of the "period-unsupported" identity should also > be updated accordingly. > > BTW, I just realized that the yang-data structures have different > names in the module and the text. For example, in the module you have > "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" but the text uses > "establish-subscription-error-datastore" (in some places). > > > > (2) And in Section 3.1: > > > > OLD: In order to protect against that, a dampening period MAY be used > > to specify the interval which must pass before successive update > > records for the same subscription are generated for a receiver. > > > > NEW: In order to protect against that, on-change dampening MAY be > > supported. Where supported, a non-zero dampening period will specify > > the interval which must pass before successive update records for the > > same subscription are generated for a receiver. > > I suggest you keep the OLD text, but also add a sentence that explains > that the server MAY not support the given dampening period, and that > the period-hint can be used by the server to indicate an acceptable > dampening period (which may be 0). > > > > If you require more than these tweaks, Alex could also make an > > optional dampening feature. But this seems to me to be unnecessarily > > heavyweight. > > I agree. > > > /martin > > > > > > Eric > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > (based on your earlier comments). And > > > > the dampening period is per subscription rather than per object. > > > > Cisco doesn=E2=80=99t have code at this time for dampened changes. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > From: Netconf On Behalf Of Andy Bierman > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 1:59 PM > > > > To: Netconf > > > > Subject: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to know if anybody has implemented on-change > > > > subscriptions yet. > > > > The implementation requirements seem very complex when you consider > > > > that every single data node instance in the subscription has its ow= n > > > > dampening timer. > > > > > > > > Edits are not reported sequentially as they occur. > > > > Instead every node is tracked and the change may only reported afte= r > > > > the dampening period expires. It seems quite possible that nodes c= an > > > > interact (e.g., leafrefs) so that reporting edit Y can depend on > > > > previous edit X, which cannot be reported until the end of its > > > > dampening period, in the future. So edit Y will be reported before = X, > > > > and the patch will fail to validate, because the current state of X > is > > > > incorrect on the receiver.. > > > > > > > > All the state tracking on the server is expensive to implement, and= I > > > > am not really sure it actually helps the client that much. > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > --00000000000028c46c0573b8ec1e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I would like to clarify sec. 3.3. p= ara 5.
The text is confusing wrt/ the dampening period is per-obj= ect or per-subscription.

   Once an update record for a given object is g=
enerated, no
   other updates for this particular subscription will be created until
   the end of the dampening period.  Values sent at the end of the
   dampening period are the current values of all changed objects which
   are current at the time the dampening period expires.


The first sentence makes me think th= e dampening period is per-object, but the 2nd sentence
seems the = say "the" dampening period (meaning 1 of them) applies to "a= ll changed objects".

Suggest:

<= /div>
OLD:

 Once an update record for a given object is generated,

NEW:

 Once an update record for any object in the subscription is gener=
ated,



Andy


=
On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Martin Bjor= klund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
Hi,

"Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@= cisco.com> wrote:
> > From: Martin Bjorklund, August 17, 2018 3:48 AM
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > "Eric Voit \(evoit\)" <evoit=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> > > A dampening period is optional
> >
> > How do you mean?=C2=A0 There is no if-feature on the "dampen= ing-period",
> > and no
> > text indicating that a server can reject a request with a
> > "dampening-period".
> > AFAICT from the draft, the dampening feature must be implemented = by a
> > server.
>
> While the "dampening-period" object must be supported by the= RPC, that
> doesn't mean the platform needs to implement subscription dampenin= g.
> This can be accomplished by a dampening period of "0" being = returned
> as a hint.=C2=A0 (Per section 3.2: "Such hints include ... accept= able
> dampening periods...". )=C2=A0 Using just the hint for conveying = this info
> rather than the hint plus advertisement of an option feature
> "dampening" simplifies the interface.
>
> If you are ok with it, Alex could tweak the following text in the
> draft:
>
> (1) For the definition of leaf 'period-hint' in the YANG model= :
>
> OLD: "Returned when the requested time period is too short. This = hint
> can assert a viable period for either a periodic push cadence or an > on-change dampening interval.";
>
> NEW: "Returned when the requested time period cannot be
> supported. This hint can assert a viable period for either a periodic<= br> > push cadence or an on-change dampening interval.=C2=A0 In the case of<= br> > dampening not being supported, a 'period-hint' of '0' = must be
> returned. ";

Ok.=C2=A0 The definition of the "period-unsupported" identity sho= uld also
be updated accordingly.

BTW, I just realized that the yang-data structures have different
names in the module and the text.=C2=A0 For example, in the module you have=
"establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" but the text u= ses
"establish-subscription-error-datastore" (in some places).

> (2) And in Section 3.1:
>
> OLD: In order to protect against that, a dampening period MAY be used<= br> > to specify the interval which must pass before successive update
> records for the same subscription are generated for a receiver.
>
> NEW: In order to protect against that, on-change dampening MAY be
> supported.=C2=A0 Where supported, a non-zero dampening period will spe= cify
> the interval which must pass before successive update records for the<= br> > same subscription are generated for a receiver.

I suggest you keep the OLD text, but also add a sentence that explains
that the server MAY not support the given dampening period, and that
the period-hint can be used by the server to indicate an acceptable
dampening period (which may be 0).


> If you require more than these tweaks, Alex could also make an
> optional dampening feature.=C2=A0 But this seems to me to be unnecessa= rily
> heavyweight.

I agree.


/martin


>
> Eric
>
> > /martin
> >
> >
> > (based on your earlier comments).=C2=A0 And
> > > the dampening period is per subscription rather than per obj= ect.
> > > Cisco doesn=E2=80=99t have code at this time for dampened ch= anges.
> > >
> > > Eric
> > >
> > > From: Netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Andy Bierman
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 1:59 PM
> > > To: Netconf <netconf@= ietf.org>
> > > Subject: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >
> > > I would like to know if anybody has implemented on-change > > > subscriptions yet.
> > > The implementation requirements seem very complex when you c= onsider
> > > that every single data node instance in the subscription has= its own
> > > dampening timer.
> > >
> > > Edits are not reported sequentially as they occur.
> > > Instead every node is tracked and the change may only report= ed after
> > > the dampening period expires.=C2=A0 It seems quite possible = that nodes can
> > > interact (e.g., leafrefs) so that reporting edit Y can depen= d on
> > > previous edit X, which cannot be reported until the end of i= ts
> > > dampening period, in the future. So edit Y will be reported = before X,
> > > and the patch will fail to validate, because the current sta= te of X is
> > > incorrect on the receiver..
> > >
> > > All the state tracking on the server is expensive to impleme= nt, and I
> > > am not really sure it actually helps the client that much. > > >
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >

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Bjorklund , "alex@clemm.org" CC: Netconf Thread-Topic: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change subscriptions Thread-Index: AQHUNYrrYY6ak73XnEaGYzSznDnmOaTC1vHAgAD+YoCAAA99AIAAWpgAgAHIq4D//9ixAA== Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 19:02:36 +0000 Message-ID: <760093d9d9b74417a13eaae07117da06@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <80ca22045b7045fe9b72b3b90ac2610b@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180817.094825.1996509847038799743.mbj@tail-f.com> <6e228976514f4e4c9e5fb7b3ff36a0ed@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180817.160806.1319182991643096746.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.234] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_760093d9d9b74417a13eaae07117da06XCHRTP013ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.153, xch-rtp-013.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] yang-push-17 on-change 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <153478564565.23119.9766582310559048569@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 10:20:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-23.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 17:20:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Zero Touch Provisioning for Networking Devices Authors : Kent Watsen Mikael Abrahamsson Ian Farrer Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-23.txt Pages : 87 Date : 2018-08-20 Abstract: This draft presents a technique to securely provision a networking device when it is booting in a factory-default state. Variations in the solution enables it to be used on both public and private networks. The provisioning steps are able to update the boot image, commit an initial configuration, and execute arbitrary scripts to address auxiliary needs. The updated device is subsequently able to establish secure connections with other systems. For instance, a device may establish NETCONF (RFC 6241) and/or RESTCONF (RFC 8040) connections with deployment-specific network management systems. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-23 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-23 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-23 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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b3VwbGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24NCnVudGlsIHRoZSBo dG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGFuZCBkaWZmIGFyZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQgdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcu DQoNCkludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0cyBhcmUgYWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgYnkgYW5vbnltb3VzIEZUUCBh dDoNCmh0dHBzOi8vdXJsZGVmZW5zZS5wcm9vZnBvaW50LmNvbS92Mi91cmw/dT1mdHAtM0FfX2Z0 cC5pZXRmLm9yZ19pbnRlcm5ldC0yRGRyYWZ0c18mZD1Ed0lDQWcmYz1IQWtZdWg2M3JzdWhyNlNj YmZoMFVqQlhlTUstbmRiM3ZvRFRYY1d6b0NJJnI9OXprUDB4bkpVdlpHSjlFUG9PSDdZaHFuMmdz QllhR1R2aklTbGFKZGNabyZtPTJVeFh1VE9yUkl3cVk1S2VRRmEtVXNMTk5oalk4dWNTSTA5LWdx bUNrb0kmcz12dnU0bXFqcXFfZ1ZvWlR6VXAxN0hvX0c5UjBneUlUREJMMWVQVzZZNVU4JmU9DQoN Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpOZXRjb25m IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KTmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly91cmxkZWZlbnNlLnByb29m cG9pbnQuY29tL3YyL3VybD91PWh0dHBzLTNBX193d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmdfbWFpbG1hbl9saXN0aW5m b19uZXRjb25mJmQ9RHdJQ0FnJmM9SEFrWXVoNjNyc3VocjZTY2JmaDBVakJYZU1LLW5kYjN2b0RU WGNXem9DSSZyPTl6a1AweG5KVXZaR0o5RVBvT0g3WWhxbjJnc0JZYUdUdmpJU2xhSmRjWm8mbT0y VXhYdVRPclJJd3FZNUtlUUZhLVVzTE5OaGpZOHVjU0kwOS1ncW1Da29JJnM9V1Z4R28wM0ZwTlUw d2ZKd0doNWp6WTZ1UUVUTDhidXFQTk1QTDY4emozbyZlPQ0KDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Aug 20 14:16:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB4EE128CF3; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 14:16:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153479976273.23123.16215132500916566701.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 14:16:02 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] netconf - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 103 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 21:16:03 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Mahesh Jethanandani, a Chair of the netconf working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Configuration Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Mahesh Jethanandani Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 75 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: opsawg opsarea netmod anima Second Priority: bfd rtgwg babel tsvwg Third Priority: sacm saag People who must be present: Mahesh Jethanandani Kent Watsen Ignas Bagdonas Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please schedule session Mon-Thur. Friday is NOT possible. (netmod, opsarea, opsawg, and anima are conflict for the OPS AD). --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Aug 21 00:13:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EF44130E13 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 00:13:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yln50Vv8gppd for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 00:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr20099.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.2.99]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA372130DEF for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 00:13:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Ks/PyZc/LPXteUABJOMgNZc1/1C7upY4ppjMGo4VbVk=; b=NLmJr2HsZW799m9MLsqZFr/jMwMiz8qFO/VlIAXGlLGxY6HJrbv0KyqxB75m2d9pNtLpBgv+nLcK3fkhi0m58MhX+eaubALP1RFTSRg33dvdzx8+UWcGSCv6S6kLRqDk6O7uN5BhKQRMW3MSn26uHgMyY2aX9pZqSRdxccubFYs= Authentication-Results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=yves.beauville@nokia.com; Received: from [138.203.136.94] (135.245.212.94) by DB5PR07MB1286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:599a::24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1080.10; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 07:13:39 +0000 To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <045f9ea9-7cbc-f92c-68d9-ff370cad66e6@nokia.com> <5B554075-06D3-4486-8EF8-51246B1FE1CE@juniper.net> From: "Beauville, Yves (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 09:13:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; 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DB5PR07MB1286; 6:RI9t+VYZ2GlBvAcTF/WNq4cqkmyQCm47w6tHtawQS8mc8LBSw28338OVQqGwnKu9JIzSRTGbnt8wbOvK9YoOZ70/05l83YAHAVDDGr/P6PgJY4Qo13l7mbMCqPeLn0x6RFDT2SueTUH6/5daKdaWoaxCRIlGPOEC7LCImHGxqQMLxr+BW4EU0EICv7+XXRRsDrBdl/EzKQemLXvEqTUUxVbdkljH7IucfF13cJJ7wYHiU7ZoiBz7JWyqUd6uNM2972dxnaYXn+qh2tY25pHrdVZslVeErBp8QQXDVGQp2zWlRNHYh3SOgXGMD9pUMxHhFObtieTDc22qLLtMa8EuLrmg9BafYjCbSGi0Y5MUQH/b3a/KHr3zL7sK9VuGvgx8i1Jas3ow/aGH5I+yOdp0aOU/C/a2lAPWpmq7h6WihyGlOvbpdRaKB1rH+v0rqdf/9pFoPM2Md7Db1unzxcfENg==; 5:mStgRPLiZIK1hPOiC5LWFZiMRuYFedx0KtnDwjSq2Q8eYwXofupDJ3Dnk/7PzePI0NjSFsy4q25JKtGpcu67hELyxUd4/+IbGSJFnoZ6Gy/HahlxiEEQjKHNGShxNRGxyK4A109GlZr04EdR44yddrkIrGYGVsvvdiLeLWwl+TM=; 7:ao8SbmqLNkwZqAP3j4T3snnXy2Cz2jzxGiFC0tThxX8itgkEYDOvU2pmp6LWBj3MoUfVD5YgbWZiE+uj6Zj14Wbk/Jkvm96m11uKWtiLG9I8LLnvYNtosjQQu2+gi9hGOu72MD5EB3oIyewnuQLSLth8yT6CFh/Je5vLavLYN3P8agQSqtZwKa1VlozZYaWQPdo2bpGahbQuCXT4Zlm129vYUgNR33FcD5udpDBXhnreRBXV55VrYRrZAETptUib SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:99 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2018 07:13:39.9992 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f56fe975-34ac-45ac-482f-08d607359f27 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB5PR07MB1286 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Reconnection strategy in ietf-netconf-server.yang X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 07:13:46 -0000 Hi Kent, You are absolutely correct. A random-selection would also work with my use-case. Is this something we can consider to add in the netconf-server model? Yves On 09-08-18 17:49, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Yves, > > >> Does this make sense, or have I missed how to realize my use case with >> the proposed model? > I think the question is *why* does the application want the client to > step to the next client? Is the answer related to load balancing? > Would a "random-selection" be just as good? > > >> Regards >> >> Yves > Kent // contributor > > > > From nobody Tue Aug 21 03:57:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A496130E0F for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 03:57:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ukSatoJwCYXr for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 03:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFE00130DEB for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 03:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3B6051AE0589; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 12:57:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 12:57:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180821.125709.290789583505734258.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <596667e1-b47f-c26a-1bb5-1520bccb6e93@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Mandatory local configuration in Keystore groupings X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 10:57:17 -0000 Hi, I have started to look at implementing the client/server/keystore modules, specifically the SSH server model for NETCONF. In this process, I have some comments on the model. Do we need to support the "local" or inline key configuration at all? I would prefer to make the keystore model mandatory and remove the local cases from the client server models. It seems better from a security pow to handle all keys in one place in the model, instead of having (possibly) private keys exposed in various places in the model. Also, the keystore has operations to generate new keys, which the local case doesn't have, so the local case also lacks some capabilities. I think the model(s) will be less complex w/o the local case. (At the very least, I think there should be a feature for the local cases, probably your case (2) below). I am looking at implementing the keystore model on a regular device for something like OpenSSH. I don't want to expose the private keys at all. I think this is possible, by not implementing ietf-keystore in the conventional configuration datastores, but only in . New keys can still be generated with the action "generate-asymmetric-key". Two questions: 1) Is the enum "hardware-protected" really a good name in this case? 2) Wouldn't it make sense to add a new operation to install an existing key into the keystore, with params "name", "algorithm", "private-key", "public-key"? And a question about certificates. Keys that are proteced by TPM are not present in the configuration, only in , right? If so, how can I install a certificate for such a key? Would it be better if the certificate list was separated from the key list? /martin Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Balazs, > > This issue is (was?) also being discussed here: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/tpmAeH9KLBWF0YglZ8CJmm4MW4o. > > Expanding on (c) on that page, assuming we do this at all, the choices > are: > > 1: add "if-defined 'not keystore-implemented'" to the "local" choice. > This would > be a *global* on/off switch, not per use of the grouping. > > 2: add "if-defined 'local-keys-supported'" to the "local" choice. > This would be a > *global* on/off switch, not per use of the grouping. > > 3: do nothing; let downstream modules augment-in their own if-feature > statements > for the "choice" statement when the groupings are used. This would > allow define > for *local* (not global) on/off switch. > > 4. remove support for keystore being optional to implement. That is, > regarding your > comment in the link below to support keys that are not shared, we > could require > that the keys still exist in keystore and leave it to the application > to ensure it doesn't > reference such keys more than once. > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/xYYf0NSeT9mgtJ1KH-h7SYLSmXA > > Thoughts? > > Kent > > > On 7/4/18, 7:26 AM, "Netconf on behalf of Balazs Lengyel" > on behalf > of balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> > wrote: > > > Hello Kent, > I was reading draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-05. I noticed that in the > groupings > local-or-keystore-end-entity-certificate-grouping, > local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-grouping and > local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-with-certs-grouping > the keystore case is qualified with an > if-feature "keystore-implemented" > statement. However the local case is not qualified with if-feature. In > ,many of our network nodes we want to implement a central keystore, > and do NOT want to allow local security configuration. So please add > if-feature "not keystore-implemented" > or > if-feature "local-keystore-allowed" > to the local case of these groupings. > > regards Balazs Lengyel > > -- > > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > > Senior Specialist > > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: > Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From nobody Tue Aug 21 05:19:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C19130DE9 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 05:19:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0hxVn1AL0mrl for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 05:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A704C130DDF for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 05:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6FDD61AE0589 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:19:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:19:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180821.141923.1666876004159297021.mbj@tail-f.com> To: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 12:19:29 -0000 Hi, In draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-06, each "netconf-client" in the "call-home" list has a list of endpoints and a "connection-type". The connection type defaults to "persistent". I suggest we add a new connection type case "on-demand" or something similar, which can be used e.g. when there is something external to trigger the call home. An example would be a periodic yang push subscription. I also suggest that the default connection strategy either is dropped, or changed to "on-demand". Also, looking at the "periodic" case, when have in ietf-netconf-server: | +--rw periodic! | +--rw idle-timeout? uint16 | +--rw reconnect-timeout? uint16 In YANG Push, we have: | +--rw yp:periodic! | +--rw yp:period yang:timeticks | +--rw yp:anchor-time? yang:date-and-time does it make sense to use similar parameters in these two cases (I would then suggest to use period + anchor-time in both, but use a type in seconds rather than timeticks). /martin From nobody Tue Aug 21 08:05:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A851274D0 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 08:05:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, 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([fe80::14ab:9da7:be4a:fbaf]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::14ab:9da7:be4a:fbaf%4]) with mapi id 15.20.1080.010; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 19:49:03 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: is "boot image" the right term? 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([2601:647:4700:1280:50a0:4d4:47a:4158]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r18-v6sm1335588pgo.27.2018.08.21.13.32.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Aug 2018 13:32:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 13:33:20 -0700 Cc: Netconf To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Shepherd review of draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-22 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 20:32:38 -0000 Hi Kent, I am aware that you just published another version of the document. Most = of this review was done for -22 version of the document.=20 In Section 5.6, in paragraph 6 the document talks about initial = configuration being applied. If an error occurs, is that initial = configuration removed? If so, how? It also says that the device may not = (did you mean RFC 2119=E2=80=99s MAY NOT?) reset itself in order to wipe = out any state the preconfigure script may have left behind. That means = in case of an error not only will there be initial configuration left on = the device, but any state left behind by the preconfigured script. With = post-configured script, the device is supposed to reset itself, removing = any pre-configured state and also any initial configuration. I do not = understand why with initial configuration this exception is being made = (of not resetting the device and clearing any state left behind by the = current or previous step). Section 6.3. You need to add references to the RFCs that you import or = reference in the YANG model, e.g. RFC 6991. leaf-list download-uri: I am confused by the last sentence in the description. =E2=80=9CIf a = secure scheme (e.g. https) is provided, a device may (again, did you = mean RFC 2119=E2=80=99s MAY) establish an untrusted connection to the = remote server to obtain the boot-image.=E2=80=9D Are you suggesting that = the device (client) does not need to authenticate itself to the server? = Most of the draft talks about the need for the device to authenticate = itself for the server to validate the device-id of the requestor. Also, = are you suggesting that a untrusted connection is fine because the image = returned will be a signed image only? This was made somewhat clear only = after seeing Appendix B diagram. s/This doesn=E2=80=99t affect Security so much as Privacy/This doesn=E2=80= =99t affect security as much as privacy/ s/the device is being directed/the device is being directed to/ s/server tis time/server this time/ Appendix C.3: In the diagram, step 3, it says that =E2=80=9Conly if source is a = bootstrap server, send progress updates=E2=80=9D. Shouldn=E2=80=99t it = be a =E2=80=9Ctrusted bootstrap server=E2=80=9D? The description for = step 3 clarifies it. Thanks. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Tue Aug 21 14:41:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D5B21277BB for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:41:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KbRJbsZy35LU for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA064127332 for ; 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([2601:647:4700:1280:50a0:4d4:47a:4158]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g85-v6sm30863089pfk.39.2018.08.21.14.56.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <025771A5-6FEF-4C6C-BDE7-8919339F426A@juniper.net> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:57:12 -0700 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <228BA2F8-A23E-4E2E-A4BB-2C16B08E75DE@gmail.com> References: <025771A5-6FEF-4C6C-BDE7-8919339F426A@juniper.net> To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] is "boot image" the right term? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 21:56:32 -0000 > On Aug 21, 2018, at 12:49 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > Regarding what the zerotouch draft calls it, a person responsible for = JUNOS builds told me that the term "boot image" may not be a good one; = that it means different things to different people and will lead to = confusion. =20 >=20 > He suggests "software image" or "software package=E2=80=9D. I would think that boot-image is more descriptive than =E2=80=9Csoftware = image=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Csoftware package=E2=80=9D. Maybe adding a = definition of boot-image in the terminology section would alleviate any = confusion people might have. >=20 > Does anyone have any thoughts about this? >=20 > Kent // contributor >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf Mahesh Jethanandani // as contributor. mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Tue Aug 21 23:11:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B19F1130DF6 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 23:11:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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VI1PR07MB1293; 6:mKLNCGVHA4GD3pNnAN3hZqHRg1qCAFMu+GT4+gwhhsOgLC/XyY9+/rfJ+BaSd6FJWn4CdqjanYHsbYcu84oPYt0KFTNZU2OiduyBsAExCgTz0ef4C2aGqbd7JDgdCsNkk9PesIl74u2skxw6nVZ/D9y38GGHDsIh+hErPhTcBVAgYiPtPSTIsv4CzVL+BFOof4dfTvo3yg871uNM1THthKn4L3+77sVF80SUlqkRiTfJ/y0deP+cjiGsy+Wv164HUNzpql7HkZ4EYqBsnuIHOI6D4779g8JsBwoMOJpzLF8KoVFvd80dgRQZ3uw4R66NaHP8uza1AUBFNc0SBHSafpsnaV4VpDHNmaH6RPH5X926NPyB6UUZHnBnQD4YQf0WCzODY2XGvu1gJvRAJ6YO5+NlxJQSVqk1AFTGm48JEZY7TdiwGk0eMtB6QG9Ql+Wa9qdtkV23rHOcPUu7KOrVnA==; 5:k3ENXRkumT7QFL6DR5QucBqwRur4KTaFt6M1JghxC7l6InJEN9WT+CYLl0Sk+qR5erQcNu+jaz3wkzJZUbqOTKh5q4T+8sHacId1wGKS3Ak+zif7wgZtDKNMim/1OltAYRj/SZuoQXaWQReJDCBt0gbdKMsu9pFd6BGu3gXU9XU=; 7:VAEhpZvulj0/gejaOLISveUMtZTqaDCyDPeNSrg/4EmY/8XKS/opIQS/93wBbFeKAcMOFnqqAhfh3Z25i/FJYgQRGcUififpMMWX8sRa6GSivaFcQ24vsrS+IKQjOf7kvOAF9iFhZUYsBOSU4DkewLznievBIP9nAhoLEFIsK0/ROP/xcoUS30VDejke9juov5SxxuWM6sHfmDne6Y0kUt1T3JtJuHo0v+Qa5vtyJ1f+sKDLSyYucu57kY7tHPOf SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:99 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Aug 2018 06:11:16.8484 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3123f31c-e1cc-42e1-3ddf-08d607f6124f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB1293 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Reconnection strategy in ietf-netconf-server.yang X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 06:11:24 -0000 Hi Kent, I definitely support this. I find it a very useful addition. Yves On 21-08-18 17:05, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Yves, > >> You are absolutely correct. >> A random-selection would also work with my use-case. >> Is this something we can consider to add in the netconf-server model? > > I think this is a good addition. I've added, in my local copy, the following to the 4 modules ietf-[net|rest]conf-[client|server], for the reconnection-strategy's "starts-with" enum: > > enum random-selection { > description > "Indicates that reconnections should start with > a random endpoint."; > } > > Everyone okay with this addition? > > Kent // contributor > > From nobody Wed Aug 22 01:24:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66285130E1F for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:24:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8yxQu5UTANeC for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB9D120049 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D82911AE0388; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:24:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:24:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180822.102452.1792964591006331128.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20180821.125709.290789583505734258.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Mandatory local configuration in Keystore groupings X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 08:24:56 -0000 Hi, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > Do we need to support the "local" or inline key configuration at all? > > The two attached slides were presented at the IETF 102 meeting. > > The ensuing discussion is captured in lines 279-312 here: > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-102-netconf. > > > > I would prefer to make the keystore model mandatory and remove the > > local cases from the client server models. It seems better from a > > security pow to handle all keys in one place in the model, instead of > > having (possibly) private keys exposed in various places in the > > model. > > I don't believe there is a security issue. NACM or equivalent can > be used in either case. Yes, but it may be desirable to keep all keys in a single place, instead of scattered around. But I'm ok with using a feature. BTW, all private keys should have nacm:default-deny-all. > > Also, the keystore has operations to generate new keys, which > > the local case doesn't have, so the local case also lacks some > > capabilities. > > True, but the generate-private-key operation is really only > intended to be used to direct an HSM (i.e. a TPM) to generate > a key. Editorial issue: the draft uses both names "generate-private-key" and "generate-asymmetric-key". > That said, the current action has no input parameter to direct > the device to use an HSM or filesystem. Perhaps there is a > need for a feature indicating the device has an HSM? I think that this is an implementation choice that doesn't have to be visible to the operator. I.e., if there's special hw it will be used, else a filesystem (or something else) will be used. > > I think the model(s) will be less complex w/o the local > > case. (At the very least, I think there should be a feature > > for the local cases, probably your case (2) below). > > Yes, from the minutes, we want to add the feature "local-keys-supported". Ok. > BTW, I think that I misspoke before about it being a global on/off > switch (not per-use). RFC 7950 says in Section 7.20.2: > > If a prefix is present on a feature name in the boolean expression, > the prefixed name refers to a feature defined in the module that was > imported with that prefix, or the local module if the prefix matches > the local module's prefix. Otherwise, a feature with the matching > name MUST be defined in the current module or an included submodule. > > So, if ietf-keystore.yang has this (note the "local-keys-supported"): > > grouping local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-grouping { > description > "A grouping that expands to allow the key to be either stored > locally within the using data model, or be a reference to an > asymmetric key stored in the keystore."; > choice local-or-keystore { > mandatory true; > if-feature "local-keys-supported"; > case local { > uses asymmetric-key-pair-grouping; > } > case keystore { > if-feature "keystore-implemented"; > leaf reference { > type ks:asymmetric-key-ref; > mandatory true; > description > "A reference to a value that exists in the keystore."; > } > } > description > "A choice between an inlined definition and a definition > that exists in the keystore."; > } > } > > and that grouping is used by the "ssh-server-grouping" in > ietf-ssh-server.yang, which it is, and that grouping is used by the > "netconf-server-grouping" in ietf-netconf-server.yang, which it is, > and that grouping is used by some application-level module called > "example-foo-bar.yang" that defines prefix "fb", then it seems that > maybe the foo-bar module could itself define a feature called > "local-keys-supported" to control the underlying feature? No, this won't work. Note the text you quoted: Otherwise [no prefix], a feature with the matching name MUST be defined in the current module or an included submodule. the current module is the module that has the if-feature statement, i.e., ietf-keystore. But I think a global feature is fine. Models can always add their own additional if-fetaure expressions via refinement. > > I am looking at implementing the keystore model on a regular device > > for something like OpenSSH. I don't want to expose the private keys > > at all. I think this is possible, by not implementing ietf-keystore > > in the conventional configuration datastores, but only in > > . New keys can still be generated with the action > > "generate-asymmetric-key". > > Keystore can be implemented in both datastores. Of course. > Keys created by the > action are only present in . The last sentence of > the action's description statement says this. Exactly. > > Two questions: > > > > 1) Is the enum "hardware-protected" really a good name in this > > case? > > As opposed to what? In my use case I would implement "generate-asymmetric-key" and it would create the keys in the file system, and the public key would be available in . I don't want to expose the private key in , so I would have to return "hardware-protected". But it isn't hardware protected... > In -02, this enum was called "INACCESSIBLE", > and in -01 there was another enum called "RESTRICTED" with description > statement "The private key is restricted due to access-control". > > We removed RESTRICTED because we said it was an access-control > implementation thing as to how filtered-out nodes are represented > (e.g., a dummy parameter or just missing). And we changed > INACCESSBLE to hardware-protected in an attempt to be more specific. > > Reaching back in time, there was a thread where we discussed the > need to support backup/restore workflows, and then a subsequent > discussion about those keys needing to be editable outside a > recovery session (Security Considerations on page 22). Thus, we > reasoned the only time the private key is truly not available is > when it's being shielded by something outside the control of the > system, which led us to "hardware". I think this is the real issue. So it might be that my use case of not wanting to expose private keys at all even if there's no TPM is explicitly not supported. I.e., unless there's special hw present, all private keys MUST be exposed (but NACM-protected). > > 2) Wouldn't it make sense to add a new operation to install an > > existing key into the keystore, with params "name", "algorithm", > > "private-key", "public-key"? > > Unsure what you mean. Currently all these values are configurable. > Or are you trying to find a way to only "configure" them in > ? Yes, *if* my use case of not exposing the private keys is supported, then it would be useful to be able to generate the keys off-box, and install them into . > > And a question about certificates. Keys that are proteced by TPM are > > not present in the configuration, only in , right? > > Right. > > > > If so, how can I install a certificate for such a key? Would it be > > better if the certificate list was separated from the key list? > > The idea is to use the approach that was taken with the I2RS topology > model, using require-instance false. Specifically, the > "local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-with-certs-grouping" has leaf > "reference" of type "asymmetric-key-ref": > > typedef asymmetric-key-ref { > type leafref { > path "/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key" > + "/ks:name"; > require-instance false; > } > description > "This typedef enables modules to easily define a reference > to an asymmetric key stored in the keystore. The require > instance attribute is false to enable the referencing of > asymmetric keys that exist only in ."; > reference > "RFC 8342: Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA)"; > } > > Makes sense? Isn't the idea that once I have a certificate, I will write it into /keystore/asymmetric-keys/asymmetric-key/certificates/certificate? My question is how this is supposed to work for a hardware-protected key that only exists in ? /martin From nobody Wed Aug 22 01:45:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D90D130E1F for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:45:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O9u92YYOQppl for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65F0B130E1B for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5903E1AE0388; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:45:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:45:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180822.104517.297330493199273368.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <4EAB4AE6-9957-46C5-A811-D0187C605AF2@juniper.net> References: <20180821.141923.1666876004159297021.mbj@tail-f.com> <4EAB4AE6-9957-46C5-A811-D0187C605AF2@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 08:45:21 -0000 Hi, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > In draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-06, each "netconf-client" > > in the "call-home" list has a list of endpoints and a > > "connection-type". The connection type defaults to "persistent". > > > I suggest we add a new connection type case "on-demand" or something > > similar, which can be used e.g. when there is something external to > > trigger the call home. > > "periodic" is meant to cover on-demand also. But even if it allows on-demand, it will still do periodic connects. > Very early slides on all > this used to call it "periodic + on-demand". The "reconnect-timeout" > description statement says: > > In ietf-netconf-client: > The NETCONF client may initiate a > connection before this time if desired > (e.g., to set configuration)."; > > In ietf-netconf-server: > The NETCONF server may initiate a connection before > this time if desired (e.g., to deliver an event > notification message)."; > > > > An example would be a periodic yang push subscription. > > Right, "to deliver an event notification message". > > > > I also suggest that the default connection strategy either is > > dropped, or changed to "on-demand". > > This was discussed at the IETF 102 meeting (see attached slide and > lines 329-335 in the minutes). Essentially, folks want to add a > "periodic" feature enabling the initiating peer to optionally > support periodic connections. As such, I don't think it should > be the default. Well, I didn't suggest to make "periodic" default; I suggested to make an explcit "on-demand" as default. Also, I don't agree with the statement that periodic call home is not commonly supported. With our proprietary "call home" protocol, it is always used. And IIRC the TR-069 call home feature also relies on periodic call home. In fact, I don't understand when "persistent" will be used. As soon as you have a somewhat large set of devices to manage, you can't maintain persistent connections to all of them. I'm ok with removing the default and making the choice mandatory. > > Also, looking at the "periodic" case, when have in ietf-netconf-server: > > > > | +--rw periodic! > > | +--rw idle-timeout? uint16 > > | +--rw reconnect-timeout? uint16 > > > > In YANG Push, we have: > > > > | +--rw yp:periodic! > > | +--rw yp:period yang:timeticks > > | +--rw yp:anchor-time? yang:date-and-time > > > > > > does it make sense to use similar parameters in these two cases? > > The YANG Push parameters have no equivalent to "idle-timeout". Sure, this is quite obvious. > This > is what is sometimes called a "linger-timeout". The connection stays > open a little while longer in case the remote peer has a follow-up, > as they often do. There would be no need for YANG-push to have this > concept, being primarily a one-way flow. Not really; it is not needed in YANG puch b/c the push parameters define *how often to poll*. This is unrelated to the call home parameters. For example, I can envision a situation where you want to poll say once an hour, but then call home once a day. Also, you can have a dynamic subscription (w/o call home) with periodic YANG push. > The client-server drafts have no equivalent to "anchor-time", some > point in the future after which connections begin. It is not a time in the future. > This looks > complex with questionable value, worth keeping? If used in the server model, it can be used to handle a large number or devices to ensure that not all of them call home at the same time. To be clear, I think we should have: (in the server model) | +--rw periodic! | +--rw idle-timeout? uint16 | +--rw period? uint16 | +--rw anchor-time? yang:date-and-time /martin From nobody Wed Aug 22 01:59:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E288130EEF for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:59:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Oyj65QXA8uAb for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D2B130ECD for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0A4461AE0388; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:58:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:58:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180822.105858.356632119713936966.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <95225F7A-6972-4A55-A5A2-0D287050A26D@juniper.net> References: <20180821.141923.1666876004159297021.mbj@tail-f.com> <4EAB4AE6-9957-46C5-A811-D0187C605AF2@juniper.net> <95225F7A-6972-4A55-A5A2-0D287050A26D@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 08:59:02 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > >> I also suggest that the default connection strategy either is > >> dropped, or changed to "on-demand". > > > > This was discussed at the IETF 102 meeting (see attached slide and > > lines 329-335 in the minutes). Essentially, folks want to add a > > "periodic" feature enabling the initiating peer to optionally > > support periodic connections. As such, I don't think it should > > be the default. > > Adding onto this, we could drop the default, and make the parent > "choice" be mandatory true. > > Actually, since we're adding a feature for "periodic", we might > want to also add a feature for "persistent". This would be > similar to how we're having features for both keystore-supported > and local-keys-supported. Thoughts? I don't think that we need features for these mechanisms. Both should be quite trivial to implement. /martin From nobody Wed Aug 22 02:03:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4A5130E1F for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 02:02:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zmcnCmitchNB for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 02:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (firewallix.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.247]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C6C130ECD for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 02:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id D34932438687; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:02:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:02:53 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: kwatsen@juniper.net, netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180822090253.zuutkbsoht3nnt2z@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , kwatsen@juniper.net, netconf@ietf.org References: <20180821.141923.1666876004159297021.mbj@tail-f.com> <4EAB4AE6-9957-46C5-A811-D0187C605AF2@juniper.net> <20180822.104517.297330493199273368.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180822.104517.297330493199273368.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 09:02:59 -0000 On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 10:45:17AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > To be clear, I think we should have: (in the server model) > > | +--rw periodic! > | +--rw idle-timeout? uint16 > | +--rw period? uint16 > | +--rw anchor-time? yang:date-and-time > So who is going to configure suitable anchor-times on a large number of devices? Is it not much easier to use a random offset instead to avoid synchronization? In LMAP, we used a random-spread in seconds, which defines the size of the time interval from which random values are taken. This has the nice benefit that the config can be the same for a large number of devices and you still get a distribution over a time interval. Perhaps you want an anchor-time, a period, and a random offset: anchor-time: 2018-08-22T00:00:00+00 period: 600 seconds (and yes timeticks seems overkill) random-spread: 60 seconds So you get events at 00:00:00+rs, 00:10:00+rs, 00:20:00+rs etc. and with 1200 devices you get on average 20 requests per second and all 1200 devices have exactly the same config. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Aug 22 02:07:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC33130EDD for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 02:07:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hV5aOGMCyU8e for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 02:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D118130F04 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 02:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B6B6F1AE0388; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:07:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:07:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180822.110708.634004471297704581.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: kwatsen@juniper.net, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20180822090253.zuutkbsoht3nnt2z@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <4EAB4AE6-9957-46C5-A811-D0187C605AF2@juniper.net> <20180822.104517.297330493199273368.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180822090253.zuutkbsoht3nnt2z@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 09:07:20 -0000 Hi, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 10:45:17AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > To be clear, I think we should have: (in the server model) > > > > | +--rw periodic! > > | +--rw idle-timeout? uint16 > > | +--rw period? uint16 > > | +--rw anchor-time? yang:date-and-time > > > > So who is going to configure suitable anchor-times on a large number > of devices? Probably the client that will receive the call-home connections. > Is it not much easier to use a random offset instead to > avoid synchronization? In LMAP, we used a random-spread in seconds, > which defines the size of the time interval from which random values > are taken. This has the nice benefit that the config can be the same > for a large number of devices and you still get a distribution over a > time interval. > > Perhaps you want an anchor-time, a period, and a random offset: > > anchor-time: 2018-08-22T00:00:00+00 > period: 600 seconds (and yes timeticks seems overkill) > random-spread: 60 seconds > > So you get events at 00:00:00+rs, 00:10:00+rs, 00:20:00+rs etc. and > with 1200 devices you get on average 20 requests per second and all > 1200 devices have exactly the same config. This looks very nice! /martin From nobody Wed Aug 22 06:49:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A5E4128CFD; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 06:49:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <153494579626.21061.394152195888724139@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 06:49:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages-04.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 13:49:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Notification Message Headers and Bundles Authors : Eric Voit Henk Birkholz Andy Bierman Alexander Clemm Tim Jenkins Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages-04.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2018-08-22 Abstract: This document defines a new notification message format, using yang- data. Included are: o a new notification mechanism and encoding to replace the one way operation of RFC-5277 o a set of common, transport agnostic message header objects. o how to bundle multiple event records into a single notification message. o how to ensure these new capabilities are only used with capable receivers. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Aug 22 09:53:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA6A130DC5 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 09:53:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7RW_qV_Ovh_c for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 09:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 17:03:45 -0000 DQpIZXkgZm9sa3MsDQoNClRoZSBjdXJyZW50ICgtMjMpIHplcm90b3VjaCB0ZXh0LCB3aXRoIGFs bCB0aGUgYWRkaXRpb25hbCBwcm9ncmVzcyByZXBvcnQgdHlwZXMsIHNheXMgdGhhdCBpdCdzIGEg dmVuZG9yIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIGRlY2lzaW9uIGFzIHRvIHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIGRldmljZSBz ZW5kcywgdG8gYSB0cnVzdGVkIGJvb3RzdHJhcHBpbmcgc2VydmVyLCBqdXN0IHRoZSBtaW5pbWFs L3JlcXVpcmVkIHByb2dyZXNzIHJlcG9ydHMsIG9yIHRoZSBtYXhpbWFsIG51bWJlciBvZiBwcm9n cmVzcyByZXBvcnRzLCBmb3IgYmV0dGVyIHZpc2liaWxpdHkvZGVidWdhYmlsaXR5Lg0KDQpJdCBv Y2N1cnMgdG8gbWUgdGhhdCBpdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBhIGJldHRlciB0aGluZyB0byBmbGlwIHRoaXMg ZnJvbSBiZWluZyBhIHZlbmRvci1kZWNpc2lvbiB0byBiZWluZyBhbiBvcGVyYXRvci1kZWNpc2lv biwgdG8gc3BlY2lmeSBob3cgbXVjaCBkZWJ1Z2dpbmcgdGhlIG9wZXJhdG9yIHdhbnRzIHJlcG9y dGVkLiAgVGhpcyBjb3VsZCBiZSBhZGRlZCBhcyBhIGZsYWcgaW4gdGhlIG9uYm9hcmRpbmcgaW5m b3JtYXRpb24gaXRzZWxmLg0KDQpXaGF0IGRvIHBlb3BsZSB0aGluaywgd29ydGggaXQ/DQoNCktl bnQgLy8gYXV0aG9yDQoNCg0K From nobody Thu Aug 23 02:43:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70B8130E09 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 02:43:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NnYFA12YgzZy for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 02:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9ABC130DD3 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 02:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id AC76DABD5F646 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:43:34 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:43:35 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.79]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 17:43:30 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] is "boot image" the right term? Thread-Index: AQHUOYgCIJwKJL6U+0qRO170GKK1HKTKOqcAgALcqzA= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 09:43:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <025771A5-6FEF-4C6C-BDE7-8919339F426A@juniper.net> <228BA2F8-A23E-4E2E-A4BB-2C16B08E75DE@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <228BA2F8-A23E-4E2E-A4BB-2C16B08E75DE@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] is "boot image" the right term? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 09:43:40 -0000 LS0tLS3pgq7ku7bljp/ku7YtLS0tLQ0K5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBOZXRjb25mIFttYWlsdG86bmV0Y29u Zi1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSDku6PooaggTWFoZXNoIEpldGhhbmFuZGFuaQ0K5Y+R6YCB5pe2 6Ze0OiAyMDE45bm0OOaciDIy5pelIDU6NTcNCuaUtuS7tuS6ujogS2VudCBXYXRzZW4NCuaKhOmA gTogbmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0K5Li76aKYOiBSZTogW05ldGNvbmZdIGlzICJib290IGltYWdl IiB0aGUgcmlnaHQgdGVybT8NCg0KDQoNCj4gT24gQXVnIDIxLCAyMDE4LCBhdCAxMjo0OSBQTSwg S2VudCBXYXRzZW4gPGt3YXRzZW5AanVuaXBlci5uZXQ+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IFJlZ2Fy ZGluZyB3aGF0IHRoZSB6ZXJvdG91Y2ggZHJhZnQgY2FsbHMgaXQsIGEgcGVyc29uIHJlc3BvbnNp YmxlIGZvciBKVU5PUyBidWlsZHMgdG9sZCBtZSB0aGF0IHRoZSB0ZXJtICJib290IGltYWdlIiBt YXkgbm90IGJlIGEgZ29vZCBvbmU7IHRoYXQgaXQgbWVhbnMgZGlmZmVyZW50IHRoaW5ncyB0byBk aWZmZXJlbnQgcGVvcGxlIGFuZCB3aWxsIGxlYWQgdG8gY29uZnVzaW9uLiAgDQo+IA0KPiBIZSBz dWdnZXN0cyAic29mdHdhcmUgaW1hZ2UiIG9yICJzb2Z0d2FyZSBwYWNrYWdl4oCdLg0KDQpJIHdv dWxkIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgYm9vdC1pbWFnZSBpcyBtb3JlIGRlc2NyaXB0aXZlIHRoYW4g4oCcc29m dHdhcmUgaW1hZ2XigJ0gb3Ig4oCcc29mdHdhcmUgcGFja2FnZeKAnS4gTWF5YmUgYWRkaW5nIGEg ZGVmaW5pdGlvbiBvZiBib290LWltYWdlIGluIHRoZSB0ZXJtaW5vbG9neSBzZWN0aW9uIHdvdWxk IGFsbGV2aWF0ZSBhbnkgY29uZnVzaW9uIHBlb3BsZSBtaWdodCBoYXZlLg0KDQo+IA0KPiBEb2Vz IGFueW9uZSBoYXZlIGFueSB0aG91Z2h0cyBhYm91dCB0aGlzPw0KDQpbUWluXTogVHJ5IHRvIGZp Z3VyZSB3aGV0aGVyIGJvb3QgaW1hZ2UgaXMgcmVsYXRlZCB0byBWTSBpbWFnZSwgZG9lcyBib290 IGltYWdlIGFsc28gaW5jbHVkZSBvcGVyYXRpbmcgc3lzdGVtPw0KSSBzZWUgJ3NvZnR3YXJlIGlt YWdlJyBpcyBhIG1vcmUgZ2VuZXJpYyB0ZXJtIHRoYW4gYm9vdCBpbWFnZS4gInNvZnR3YXJlIHBh Y2thZ2XigJ0gaXMgYWxzbyBnb29kIHRvIG1lLg0KPiBLZW50IC8vIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yDQo+IA0K PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBOZXRj b25mIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBOZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYu b3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0Y29uZg0KDQpNYWhlc2ggSmV0aGFuYW5kYW5pIC8vIGFz IGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yLg0KbWpldGhhbmFuZGFuaUBnbWFpbC5jb20NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCk5ldGNvbmYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpO ZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25l dGNvbmYNCg== From nobody Thu Aug 23 02:50:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C40F130E92 for ; 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boundary="_000_VI1PR07MB398181F0ECB96E28BBC290EB9B360VI1PR07MB3981eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 65b089b9-1a10-47bb-630d-08d609c56d59 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Aug 2018 13:28:06.6325 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB0782 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] RFC6243 "with defaults" report-all and YANG "when" statements X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 13:28:12 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB398181F0ECB96E28BBC290EB9B360VI1PR07MB3981eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Also adding NETCONF. This spans both groups. From: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 9:27 AM To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: RFC6243 "with defaults" report-all and YANG "when" statements Hi all, RFC6243 has a 'report-all' retrieval mode: When data is retrieved with a parameter equal to 'report-all', all data nodes MUST be reported, including any data nodes considered to be default data by the server. I wanted to confirm how YANG "when" statements are supposed to interact wit= h 'report-all'. If a 'when' statement is (e.g. in some container abc) is currently not sati= sfied, then I believe a 'report-all' would not report the container abc or = any of the descendant nodes of abc. Is that correct ? A "when" statement (when not satisfied) makes the associated nodes "invalid= " so I assume that means they don't exist with their default values at all. e.g. leaf foo { type uint32; } container abc { when "../foo =3D 1"; leaf test1 { type uint32; default 50 } } If the currently has this instance data: foo =3D 2 then I believe a 'report-all' retrieval would only return the following: 2 and it would *not* return this data: 50 Jason --_000_VI1PR07MB398181F0ECB96E28BBC290EB9B360VI1PR07MB3981eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Also adding NETCONF.  This spans both groups.

 

From: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 9:27 AM
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: RFC6243 "with defaults" report-all and YANG "= ;when" statements

 

Hi all,

 

RFC6243 has a 'report-all' retr= ieval mode:

 

   When data is retri= eved with a <with-defaults> parameter equal to

   'report-all', all = data nodes MUST be reported, including any data

   nodes considered t= o be default data by the server.

 

I wanted to confirm how YANG &q= uot;when" statements are supposed to interact with 'report-all'. 

 

If a 'when' statement is (e.g. = in some container abc) is currently not satisfied, then I believe a 'report= -all' would not report the container abc or any of the descendant nodes of = abc.  Is that correct ?

 

A "when" statement (w= hen not satisfied) makes the associated nodes "invalid" so I assu= me that means they don't exist with their default values at all.=

 

e.g.

leaf foo { type uint32; }<= /o:p>

container abc {

   when "../foo = =3D 1";

   leaf test1 { type = uint32; default 50 }

}

 

If the <running> currentl= y has this instance data:

    foo =3D 2

then I believe a 'report-all' r= etrieval would only return the following:

    <foo>2= </foo>

and it would *not* retur= n this data:

    <abc><= o:p>

     &= nbsp; <test1>50</test1>

    </abc>=

 

Jason

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, I made an attempt to make use of the ietf-ssh-client@2018-06-04 module to c= onfigure an interactive ssh client, and I found some obstacles. The current= ietf-ssh-client model has the following structure: module: ietf-ssh-client +--rw client +--rw client-identity | +--rw username? string | +--rw (auth-type) | +--:(password) | | +--rw password? string | +--:(public-key) | | +--rw public-key | +--:(certificate) | +--rw certificate {sshcmn:ssh-x509-certs}? +--rw server-auth | +--rw pinned-ssh-host-keys? ta:pinned-host-keys-ref | +--rw pinned-ca-certs? ta:pinned-certificates-ref {sshcmn:ss= h-x509-certs}? | +--rw pinned-server-certs? ta:pinned-certificates-ref {sshcmn:ss= h-x509-certs}? +--rw transport-params {ssh-client-transport-params-config}? In the netconf-client module, which I took as example it is mounted to the = 'ssh' container and preceded by: module: ietf-netconf-client +--rw netconf-client +--rw initiate! {initiate}? | +--rw netconf-server* [name] | +--rw name string | +--rw endpoints | | +--rw endpoint* [name] | | +--rw name string | | +--rw (transport) | | +--:(ssh) {ssh-initiate}? | | | +--rw ssh | | | +--rw address? inet:host | | | +--rw port? inet:port-number\ In the case of the interactive client, I want some limited parameters to be= provided by the invoking user, which is at least the target user, target a= ddress, and target port, so I would not need all the data nodes present in= the netconf-client, but I need a subset of them, including the user creden= tials. The problem I face, is that for one target address, the user can sel= ect multiple target users, and for one target user, it should be able to se= lect multiple target addresses. With the above model, if I want to set up a= second client identity, I would basically need to create a complete endpoi= nt with the same data in all the rest of the data nodes. Equally, if I want= to set up a different endpoint, I need to copy all the possible client ide= ntities to be able to use them at other target addresses. My thinking is that the endpoint related configuration (address, port, serv= er-auth, transport-params) should be decoupled from client identities, so I= can set them up and mount them independently. However, I think this would= effect the ssh-client grouping a bit heavily, basically breaking it up int= o two pieces. One that caters for the client identity, and another for the = endpoint/server security. One looking like this (temp name 'ssh-client-client-identity-grouping'): grouping ssh-client-client-identity-grouping +-- client-identity +-- username? string +-- (auth-type) +--:(password) | +-- password? string +--:(public-key) | +-- public-key | +---u ks:local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-grouping +--:(certificate) +-- certificate {sshcmn:ssh-x509-certs}? +---u ks:local-or-keystore-end-entity-certificate-groupi= ng And another (temp name 'ssh-server-auth-transport-params-grouping'): grouping ssh-client-server-auth-transport-params-grouping +-- server-auth | +-- pinned-ssh-host-keys? ta:pinned-host-keys-ref | +-- pinned-ca-certs? ta:pinned-certificates-ref | | {sshcmn:ssh-x509-certs}? | +-- pinned-server-certs? ta:pinned-certificates-ref | {sshcmn:ssh-x509-certs}? +-- transport-params {ssh-client-transport-params-config}? +---u sshcmn:transport-params-grouping I also wonder if this would effect the similar module of tls-client. In TLS= case, the client identity used is more bound to actual server and is rarel= y selectable by interaction, but splitting the current single grouping into= two may probably not harm either. Best Regards, Balazs --_000_VI1PR0701MB2016B4A08C395CAE6DCD779E83360VI1PR0701MB2016_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,

 

I made an attempt to make use of the ietf-ssh-client= @2018-06-04 module to configure an interactive ssh client, and I found some= obstacles. The current ietf-ssh-client model has the following structure:<= o:p>

 

module: ietf-ssh-client

  +--rw client

     +--rw client-identity

     |  +--rw username? &= nbsp;          string

     |  +--rw (auth-type)=

     |     +--:= (password)

     |     |  = +--rw password?      string<= /p>

     |     +--:= (public-key)

     |     |  = +--rw public-key

     |     +--:= (certificate)

     |     &nb= sp;  +--rw certificate {sshcmn:ssh-x509-certs}?<= /p>

     +--rw server-auth

     |  +--rw pinned-ssh-host-= keys?   ta:pinned-host-keys-ref

     |  +--rw pinned-ca-certs?=         ta:pinned-certificates-ref {sshc= mn:ssh-x509-certs}?

     |  +--rw pinned-server-ce= rts?    ta:pinned-certificates-ref {sshcmn:ssh-x509-certs}?<= o:p>

     +--rw transport-params {ssh-cl= ient-transport-params-config}?

 

In the netconf-client module, which I took as exampl= e it is mounted to the ‘ssh’ container and preceded by:

 

   module: ietf-netconf-client<= /p>

     +--rw netconf-client

        +--rw initia= te! {initiate}?

        |  +--r= w netconf-server* [name]

        |  &nb= sp;  +--rw name        &nb= sp;         string

        |  &nb= sp;  +--rw endpoints

        |  &nb= sp;  |  +--rw endpoint* [name]

        |  &nb= sp;  |     +--rw name    &= nbsp;    string

        |  &nb= sp;  |     +--rw (transport)=

        |  &nb= sp;  |        +--:(ssh) {ssh-in= itiate}?

        |  &nb= sp;  |        |  +--rw ssh=

        |  &nb= sp;  |        |   &n= bsp; +--rw address?        &nbs= p;   inet:host

        |  &nb= sp;  |        |   &n= bsp; +--rw port?         &= nbsp;     inet:port-number\

 

In the case of the interactive client, I want some l= imited parameters to be provided by the invoking user, which is at least th= e target user, target address, and target port, so  I would not need a= ll the data nodes present in the netconf-client, but I need a subset of them, including the user credentials. The problem I= face, is that for one target address, the user can select multiple target = users, and for one target user, it should be able to select multiple target= addresses. With the above model, if I want to set up a second client identity, I would basically need to cr= eate a complete endpoint with the same data in all the rest of the data nod= es. Equally, if I want to set up a different endpoint, I need to copy all t= he possible client identities to be able to use them at other target addresses.

 

My thinking is that the endpoint related configurati= on (address, port, server-auth, transport-params) should be decoupled from = client identities, so I can set them up and mount them independently.  = ;However, I think this would effect the ssh-client grouping a bit heavily, basically breaking it up into two piece= s. One that caters for the client identity, and another for the endpoint/se= rver security.

 

One looking like this (temp name ‘ssh-client-c= lient-identity-grouping’):

 

     grouping ssh-=
client-client-identity-grouping
       &=
#43;-- client-identity
       &=
nbsp;  +-- username?       =
;     string
       &=
nbsp;  +-- (auth-type)
       &=
nbsp;     +--:(password)

       &=
nbsp;     |  +-- password?  &nb=
sp;   string


       &=
nbsp;     +--:(public-key)

       &=
nbsp;     |  +-- public-key


       &=
nbsp;     |     +---u ks:l=
ocal-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-grouping


       &=
nbsp;     +--:(certificate)<=
/pre>

       &=
nbsp;        +-- certificate {s=
shcmn:ssh-x509-certs}?


       &=
nbsp;           +=
;---u ks:local-or-keystore-end-entity-certificate-grouping


 


And another (temp name ‘ssh-server-auth-transp=
ort-params-grouping’):


 


 


     grouping ssh-=
client-server-auth-transport-params-grouping


       &=
#43;-- server-auth


       |=
  +-- pinned-ssh-host-keys?   ta:pinned-host-keys-ref


       |=
  +-- pinned-ca-certs?        t=
a:pinned-certificates-ref


       |=
  |       {sshcmn:ssh-x509-certs}?<=
/o:p>


       |=
  +-- pinned-server-certs?    ta:pinned-certificate=
s-ref


       |=
          {sshcmn:ssh-x509-cer=
ts}?


       &=
#43;-- transport-params {ssh-client-transport-params-config}?


      &n=
bsp;   +---u sshcmn:transport-params-grouping


 


 


I also wonder if this would effect the similar modul=
e of tls-client. In TLS case, the client identity used is more bound to act=
ual server and is rarely selectable by interaction, but splitting the curre=
nt single grouping into two may probably
 not harm either.


 


Best Regards,


Balazs


 
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X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 112F41274D0 for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2018 15:13:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GUZr4_vP_aj4 for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2018 15:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (anna.eecs.jacobs-university.de [IPv6:2001:638:709:5::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A5012785F for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2018 15:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8F5CB2449543; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 00:13:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 00:13:23 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: Martin Bjorklund , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180824221323.a3utpvsocz67ebin@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , Martin Bjorklund , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <4EAB4AE6-9957-46C5-A811-D0187C605AF2@juniper.net> <20180822.104517.297330493199273368.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180822090253.zuutkbsoht3nnt2z@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20180822.110708.634004471297704581.mbj@tail-f.com> <27A72A17-54BB-430D-A986-A229473B5561@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <27A72A17-54BB-430D-A986-A229473B5561@juniper.net> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 22:13:30 -0000 On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 09:52:59PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > >> Is it not much easier to use a random offset instead to > >> avoid synchronization? In LMAP, we used a random-spread in seconds, > >> which defines the size of the time interval from which random values > >> are taken. This has the nice benefit that the config can be the same > >> for a large number of devices and you still get a distribution over a > >> time interval. > >> > >> Perhaps you want an anchor-time, a period, and a random offset: > >> > >> anchor-time: 2018-08-22T00:00:00+00 > >> period: 600 seconds (and yes timeticks seems overkill) > >> random-spread: 60 seconds > >> > >> So you get events at 00:00:00+rs, 00:10:00+rs, 00:20:00+rs etc. and > >> with 1200 devices you get on average 20 requests per second and all > >> 1200 devices have exactly the same config. > > > > This looks very nice! > > Good for YP too, right? > Yes. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Aug 24 15:38:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E95E130DC0 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sender-id=neutral Authentication-Results: smtp03.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.mail=david+work@mandelberg.org; spf=neutral; sender-id=neutral Authentication-Results: smtp03.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.user=dseomn@rcn.com; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received-SPF: neutral (smtp03.rcn.cmh.synacor.com: 209.6.43.168 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of mandelberg.org) Received: from [209.6.43.168] ([209.6.43.168:33708] helo=uriel.mandelberg.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) id F1/93-40409-400F18B5; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 20:10:44 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.152] (DD-WRT [192.168.1.1]) by uriel.mandelberg.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22FED1C6093; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 20:10:44 -0400 (EDT) To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Cc: Andy Bierman , Martin Thomson References: <153478564565.23119.9766582310559048569@ietfa.amsl.com> <0DA47346-64BE-4FD1-888F-F0E47688C14F@juniper.net> From: David Mandelberg Message-ID: <4be03677-70b8-98a2-49b3-1be4abd5da7e@mandelberg.org> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 20:10:41 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0DA47346-64BE-4FD1-888F-F0E47688C14F@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-23.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 00:10:48 -0000 Hi, Thanks again for addressing all my -22 review comments. Here are a few more for -23: Section 5.6: "Hinder[ing] the ability for the device to continue the bootstrapping sequence" was only part of why I asked about the error cases. The other part is that I think there's a security risk in leaving bootstrapping enabled after the device is partially/mostly configured, since bootstrapping opens the possibility for various parties to change the configuration. Is there a reason not to require devices to fully rollback the configuration if there's an error after it's applied? (nit) Section 9.8: "For best security, it is RECOMMENDED that owners only provide signed data, for use with any source of bootstrapping data". Using signed data all the time is fine, but I don't think unencrypted signed data provides any additional security when using a trusted bootstrap server, since that server can always remove the signature and serve the same data unsigned. (nit) Section 9.11: "potential cause problems" should be "potential to cause problems". On 08/20/2018 01:28 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > All, > > This update addresses the issues I raised over the course of the > last couple weeks. Please review and provide comments. > > - Andy, it's not specific in some ways, and yet specific in others. > > - Martin, I created an "Implementation Notes" section. > > - David (SecDir), please review the final diffs, especially > Section 5.6 and the Security Considerations sections. > > - Mahesh (Shepherd), let's give the WG at least a week to > review before pressing the button to publish it to the IESG. > > Thanks, > Kent > > ===== original message ===== > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > Title : Zero Touch Provisioning for Networking Devices > Authors : Kent Watsen > Mikael Abrahamsson > Ian Farrer > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-23.txt > Pages : 87 > Date : 2018-08-20 > > Abstract: > This draft presents a technique to securely provision a networking > device when it is booting in a factory-default state. Variations in > the solution enables it to be used on both public and private > networks. The provisioning steps are able to update the boot image, > commit an initial configuration, and execute arbitrary scripts to > address auxiliary needs. The updated device is subsequently able to > establish secure connections with other systems. For instance, a > device may establish NETCONF (RFC 6241) and/or RESTCONF (RFC 8040) > connections with deployment-specific network management systems. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetconf-2Dzerotouch_&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=2UxXuTOrRIwqY5KeQFa-UsLNNhjY8ucSI09-gqmCkoI&s=ZN34jylWdiYshyDY0U03sNAez1BLE6do097NTHbOq_Y&e= > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetconf-2Dzerotouch-2D23&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=2UxXuTOrRIwqY5KeQFa-UsLNNhjY8ucSI09-gqmCkoI&s=qpRyKDmimUFa8CwHS3gpr0s4mI2VIpjiMBUL7PaqY8s&e= > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetconf-2Dzerotouch-2D23&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=2UxXuTOrRIwqY5KeQFa-UsLNNhjY8ucSI09-gqmCkoI&s=x0FGfhTf4hmbqRIXAgEqG1XJadCGXa4TFJh4UipvOKg&e= > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dietf-2Dnetconf-2Dzerotouch-2D23&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=2UxXuTOrRIwqY5KeQFa-UsLNNhjY8ucSI09-gqmCkoI&s=p9_0mbhtuas_-0rXnxG3ahyEmbqIqGm-sb0x-QMpFD4&e= > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=ftp-3A__ftp.ietf.org_internet-2Ddrafts_&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=2UxXuTOrRIwqY5KeQFa-UsLNNhjY8ucSI09-gqmCkoI&s=vvu4mqjqq_gVoZTzUp17Ho_G9R0gyITDBL1ePW6Y5U8&e= > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netconf&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=2UxXuTOrRIwqY5KeQFa-UsLNNhjY8ucSI09-gqmCkoI&s=WVxGo03FpNU0wfJwGh5jzY6uQETL8buqPNMPL68zj3o&e= > > -- https://david.mandelberg.org/ From nobody Mon Aug 27 00:06:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41921130DF3; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 00:06:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x0mNhZx60CbT; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 00:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C62FE130DDF; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 00:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F095A1AE0312; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 09:06:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 09:06:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180827.090634.908058368768636307.mbj@tail-f.com> To: jason.sterne@nokia.com Cc: netmod@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] RFC6243 "with defaults" report-all and YANG "when" statements X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 07:06:41 -0000 "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > Also adding NETCONF. This spans both groups. > > From: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 9:27 AM > To: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: RFC6243 "with defaults" report-all and YANG "when" statements > > Hi all, > > RFC6243 has a 'report-all' retrieval mode: > > When data is retrieved with a parameter equal to > 'report-all', all data nodes MUST be reported, including any data > nodes considered to be default data by the server. > > I wanted to confirm how YANG "when" statements are supposed to interact with 'report-all'. > > If a 'when' statement is (e.g. in some container abc) is currently not satisfied, then I believe a 'report-all' would not report the container abc or any of the descendant nodes of abc. Is that correct ? Yes. > A "when" statement (when not satisfied) makes the associated nodes "invalid" so I assume that means they don't exist with their default values at all. Correct. An invalid "when" expression has the same effect on the node as erasing the definition from the module. /martin > > e.g. > leaf foo { type uint32; } > container abc { > when "../foo = 1"; > leaf test1 { type uint32; default 50 } > } > > If the currently has this instance data: > foo = 2 > then I believe a 'report-all' retrieval would only return the following: > 2 > and it would *not* return this data: > > 50 > > > Jason From nobody Mon Aug 27 00:49:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4578D130E9F for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 00:49:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.331 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.331 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, 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--_000_VI1PR0701MB2016969E34395727CF5CC5C3830B0VI1PR0701MB2016_-- From nobody Mon Aug 27 01:21:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86798128C65 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:21:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LCRvq16C2Y-W for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30AE130E7B for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 511011AE0312; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 10:21:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 10:21:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180827.102118.630809612057220140.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <28C3C2C7-22BE-4425-A26C-4A777FA68A95@juniper.net> References: <20180822.102452.1792964591006331128.mbj@tail-f.com> <28C3C2C7-22BE-4425-A26C-4A777FA68A95@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Mandatory local configuration in Keystore groupings X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 08:21:24 -0000 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localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E989128C65 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:23:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y5ZU3kPhWusR for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17959130E7B for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4C5EE1AE0312; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 10:23:00 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 10:22:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180827.102259.1593150619522594759.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <95225F7A-6972-4A55-A5A2-0D287050A26D@juniper.net> <20180822.105858.356632119713936966.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 08:23:02 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > >> Actually, since we're adding a feature for "periodic", we might > >> want to also add a feature for "persistent". This would be > >> similar to how we're having features for both keystore-supported > >> and local-keys-supported. Thoughts? > > > > I don't think that we need features for these mechanisms. Both > > should be quite trivial to implement. > > Too bad you weren't at the meeting ;) > > You won't get much of an argument from me. After all, my slide said: > > Periodic connections are incredibly useful and, by not having a > feature, we might nudge the industry into supporting them more. > > And, if you think it's trivial, then why not, right? Hmmm, well, > what if a device really only wants to support one type? Is that > a likely scenario? I would think that the operator wants the flexibility to decide this, not the device programmer. /martin From nobody Mon Aug 27 01:30:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F19B130E7B for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:30:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QfroUPbdQK5B for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14512128C65 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4A0381AE0312; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 10:30:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 10:30:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180827.103054.258602442749709056.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <4EAB4AE6-9957-46C5-A811-D0187C605AF2@juniper.net> <20180822.104517.297330493199273368.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 08:30:59 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > >> "periodic" is meant to cover on-demand also. > > > > But even if it allows on-demand, it will still do periodic connects. > > Correct, that's the point of this configuration. Maybe we need to > define another enum called "on-demand"? Yes, that was what I suggested in the first email in this thread. > > Well, I didn't suggest to make "periodic" default; I suggested to make > > an explcit "on-demand" as default. > > Popping back to your previous comment on this, per your suggestion, I > replaced the default with "mandatory true". Ok. > > Also, I don't agree with the statement that periodic call home is not > > commonly supported. With our proprietary "call home" protocol, it is > > always used. And IIRC the TR-069 call home feature also relies on > > periodic call home. > > Good points. > > > > In fact, I don't understand when "persistent" will be used. As soon > > as you have a somewhat large set of devices to manage, you can't > > maintain persistent connections to all of them. > > I have seen persistent connections used. The "persistent" container's > description statement says: > > This connection type minimizes any NETCONF client > to NETCONF server data-transfer delay, albeit at > the expense of holding resources longer."; > > and netconf-client-server-06 Section 5.6.4 says: > > Support both persistent and periodic connections > > NETCONF clients may vary greatly on how frequently they need to > interact with a NETCONF server, how responsive interactions need to > be, and how many simultaneous connections they can support. Some > clients may need a persistent connection to servers to optimize real- > time interactions, while others prefer periodic interactions in order > to minimize resource requirements. Therefore, when it is necessary > for server to initiate connections, it should be configurable if the > connection is persistent or periodic. > > > > > > >> This > >> is what is sometimes called a "linger-timeout". The connection stays > >> open a little while longer in case the remote peer has a follow-up, > >> as they often do. There would be no need for YANG-push to have this > >> concept, being primarily a one-way flow. > > > > Not really; it is not needed in YANG puch b/c the push parameters > > define *how often to poll*. This is unrelated to the call home > > parameters. For example, I can envision a situation where you want to > > poll say once an hour, but then call home once a day. > > I'm unsure what your point is, but I note that this use-case is satisfied > if YP (via SN and NN) ref-ed a netconf-server instance that had "periodic" > (which is intended to also support on-demand) with the periodicity of 24 > hours. And the concept of the idle-timeout (a linger timeout) is good. Yes I agree that such a leafref nicely solves this use case (and others). My point was that "idel-timeout" is not needed in YP. > > Also, you can have a dynamic subscription (w/o call home) with > > periodic YANG push. > > Of course. > > > >> The client-server drafts have no equivalent to "anchor-time", some > >> point in the future after which connections begin. > > > > It is not a time in the future. > > The description statement says before or after. Maybe the description > statement is unclear in its intent. In the context of the client-server > drafts, "before" makes no sense (there is no replay), so only "after" > remains, hence my "future" comment. In both cases (YP and client server) the exact time doesn't matter; it can be in the future or in the past, it is just use to calculate at which periodic times the poll happens or the server calls home. Hence the term "anchor-time" as opposed to "start-time". > >> This looks complex with questionable value, worth keeping? > > > > If used in the server model, it can be used to handle a large number > > or devices to ensure that not all of them call home at the same time. > > Programming the "periodic" connections on exact time boundaries > might be over engineering it, but maybe not. Does it matter if > a device calls-home once a day vs exactly at 3am every day? I think it does in some scenarios, e.g. it might be useful to schedule all call homes at night. > As currently defined, even if all devices were configured to do > "periodic" at the exact same time, they eventually diverge as > random delays skew each device's counters. A spread occurs > over time and, besides, there are techniques for handling load. > > > > To be clear, I think we should have: (in the server model) > > > > | +--rw periodic! > > | +--rw idle-timeout? uint16 > > | +--rw period? uint16 > > | +--rw anchor-time? yang:date-and-time > > What if period is not set? Sorry, period should be mandatory, by bad. > What if anchor-time is not set? See the definition in YP. It will work like your proposed model in this case. > In YP, "period" is mandatory but, still, the description statements > aren't clear. Then they need to be clarified. But that's a different email thread! /martin From nobody Mon Aug 27 05:30:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32562130E71; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 05:30:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MfglHx0k28Op; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 05:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur01on0700.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe1f::700]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1943C130DD7; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB4064; H:VI1PR07MB3981.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jason.sterne@nokia.com; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: /ob5njWUXSEYY0ukRUmKTRdBVg/m1Yq50nD35zP0txoO5gv4asdcsk7LCmoHjVwATE3aLRU3uOjK9Uy5jq7fyKu7WTnyiNUYNvo2L0gz+FpBWN3L2/R7GGJSjJ0ReXrBTRWMmStg3lxBvqMCZOVpEHE1A5mZd+o9QMMpQVPsjoFp8eePRkS4vZIyTsPf6EBGITI2xTy9IqtmJmzXcnXVVjzE7xODr5moS/cQh9pLvOQDroS1s77QkCLtayp5YnIjDVBXQnQpPNoMWzCCXDXkt2rackDmgl54/yDcdGOTqexU7s6ikcvTCHRTonbwIsF9Km7mr7DHiAqu4DrlHWcICtu62FQRMDRJFor2T9rp17Ex59XmflvldYH1SVeZsDJo+7DFX5iOhCy0yekxTJE6bg== spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 17f82021-42eb-4c3d-4a9e-08d60c18e26a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Aug 2018 12:30:33.5878 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB4064 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] RFC6243 "with defaults" report-all and YANG "when" statements X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 12:30:39 -0000 Thanks Martin. That makes sense and matches the impression I got from vario= us statements in the RFCs. > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Bjorklund > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 3:07 AM > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > Cc: netmod@ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] RFC6243 "with defaults" report-all and YANG "when" > statements >=20 > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > > Also adding NETCONF. This spans both groups. > > > > From: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 9:27 AM > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: RFC6243 "with defaults" report-all and YANG "when" statements > > > > Hi all, > > > > RFC6243 has a 'report-all' retrieval mode: > > > > When data is retrieved with a parameter equal to > > 'report-all', all data nodes MUST be reported, including any data > > nodes considered to be default data by the server. > > > > I wanted to confirm how YANG "when" statements are supposed to interact > with 'report-all'. > > > > If a 'when' statement is (e.g. in some container abc) is currently not = satisfied, > then I believe a 'report-all' would not report the container abc or any o= f the > descendant nodes of abc. Is that correct ? >=20 > Yes. >=20 > > A "when" statement (when not satisfied) makes the associated nodes > "invalid" so I assume that means they don't exist with their default valu= es at > all. >=20 > Correct. >=20 > An invalid "when" expression has the same effect on the node as > erasing the definition from the module. >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 >=20 > > > > e.g. > > leaf foo { type uint32; } > > container abc { > > when "../foo =3D 1"; > > leaf test1 { type uint32; default 50 } > > } > > > > If the currently has this instance data: > > foo =3D 2 > > then I believe a 'report-all' retrieval would only return the following= : > > 2 > > and it would *not* return this data: > > > > 50 > > > > > > Jason From nobody Mon Aug 27 07:59:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEA4130DFD for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 07:59:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: 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X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 20:18:03 -0000 DQpObyBjb21tZW50cyBvbiB0aGlzPyAgIHZlbmRvci1kZWNpc2lvbiBvciBvcGVyYXRvci1kZWNp c2lvbj8NCg0KDQpLZW50DQoNCg0KLS0tLS0gb3JpZ2luYWwgbWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0NCg0KSGV5 IGZvbGtzLA0KDQpUaGUgY3VycmVudCAoLTIzKSB6ZXJvdG91Y2ggdGV4dCwgd2l0aCBhbGwgdGhl IGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgcHJvZ3Jlc3MgcmVwb3J0IHR5cGVzLCBzYXlzIHRoYXQgaXQncyBhIHZlbmRv ciBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBkZWNpc2lvbiBhcyB0byB3aGV0aGVyIHRoZSBkZXZpY2Ugc2VuZHMs IHRvIGEgdHJ1c3RlZCBib290c3RyYXBwaW5nIHNlcnZlciwganVzdCB0aGUgbWluaW1hbC9yZXF1 aXJlZCBwcm9ncmVzcyByZXBvcnRzLCBvciB0aGUgbWF4aW1hbCBudW1iZXIgb2YgcHJvZ3Jlc3Mg cmVwb3J0cywgZm9yIGJldHRlciB2aXNpYmlsaXR5L2RlYnVnYWJpbGl0eS4NCg0KSXQgb2NjdXJz IHRvIG1lIHRoYXQgaXQgd291bGQgYmUgYSBiZXR0ZXIgdGhpbmcgdG8gZmxpcCB0aGlzIGZyb20g YmVpbmcgYSB2ZW5kb3ItZGVjaXNpb24gdG8gYmVpbmcgYW4gb3BlcmF0b3ItZGVjaXNpb24sIHRv IHNwZWNpZnkgaG93IG11Y2ggZGVidWdnaW5nIHRoZSBvcGVyYXRvciB3YW50cyByZXBvcnRlZC4g IFRoaXMgY291bGQgYmUgYWRkZWQgYXMgYSBmbGFnIGluIHRoZSBvbmJvYXJkaW5nIGluZm9ybWF0 aW9uIGl0c2VsZi4NCg0KV2hhdCBkbyBwZW9wbGUgdGhpbmssIHdvcnRoIGl0Pw0KDQpLZW50IC8v IGF1dGhvcg0KDQoNCg0K From nobody Mon Aug 27 13:24:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35037130E25 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:24:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dKakKl5G9Ffx for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x529.google.com (mail-pg1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9054212D7F8 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x529.google.com with SMTP id h8-v6so105271pgs.4 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:23:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=jeBgVacrumL6DbjL0Hin8G+vcxBen/Pd8YexxoU72R4=; b=hkoAtIdZ/6PhyN6bNhnhLGIFkd+6iPcfWLIDQn3Z6GYk9JEK7FCWVWkJm6zjtLtb2L IO+QnkXBakdIugvNqtzUzvStfIQ90KolfQwmiUNfwfeXvqfG6tLGedgx7BSNLh3nJw5U eLc0FghwfHwte1857m0VzyyhxtocJf14jrS+cgOXC/gYtvpFndzOBwVRGT2Qiozk0bjZ R4NmIjoOzT+xdEWYzCJdcewoVL37dtBS3jkcjfgMbFjX0n1bRfh6P60BlMXPHZEQh4kc MvHG//UAa+SLN7M1ZgFHhBYAeLqj12T8FKSFH9rfQUwIvbbBLQ6Yd3N7H9v78W2tQPlA h1qw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=jeBgVacrumL6DbjL0Hin8G+vcxBen/Pd8YexxoU72R4=; b=AE/XeuY7dH9Bebn2im5995TvuUXsRA3S6R4Z/QA6RuJqqb2KqF2vnB+fy4G2+SVg6q UjQs5GaAeDi6U8qlxZUfMOzb1nbmVVFDhFlnWh8+rJ4JfmPLeYRRnMHomhVbm4jUXuRK 9NRUL/vbfEM1lTwdAVfwGYSmU2H+t17twx1ztQh7j5YBCNFArgtpv4pEWX2VkP++ZUWE +s1yXDqFXHf/SyexD5WNPypWlXBD95/lFkEiTbu8Z8n2lJ4wWQ6fkwgrFQ9jvh9UpQaW LMse98rAAxTfIP1IZHlWA41z71uFqYjQ69Scl0xFXW78Fl5j5Ip/tp/p/IEeAdWo7wcJ knZA== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BfMN45u/5Eq1wuqNTOaCiIbNuY2xcExISNglgGkW8CtieVmgfV +s3+9F2g6T6MMqQ30s6RH/w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYL+4DtE7G1g3smXhxj+dvLHp7r2Y0jiT4GaKz9yLz/s0S4q8J235Ky3d97+rXA9Quqg2x1pQ== X-Received: by 2002:a65:478b:: with SMTP id e11-v6mr13151337pgs.98.1535401439143; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:409c:e4b2:5eda:640c? ([2601:647:4700:1280:409c:e4b2:5eda:640c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e26-v6sm131724pfi.70.2018.08.27.13.23.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:25:00 -0700 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] should onboarding information *set* the debug level? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 20:24:01 -0000 It makes sense that it be a operator-decision. After all they are the = ones in the field trying to diagnose the problem in the field. > On Aug 27, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > No comments on this? vendor-decision or operator-decision? >=20 >=20 > Kent >=20 >=20 > ----- original message ------ >=20 > Hey folks, >=20 > The current (-23) zerotouch text, with all the additional progress = report types, says that it's a vendor implementation decision as to = whether the device sends, to a trusted bootstrapping server, just the = minimal/required progress reports, or the maximal number of progress = reports, for better visibility/debugability. >=20 > It occurs to me that it would be a better thing to flip this from = being a vendor-decision to being an operator-decision, to specify how = much debugging the operator wants reported. This could be added as a = flag in the onboarding information itself. >=20 > What do people think, worth it? >=20 > Kent // author >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf Mahesh Jethanandani // as contributor mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Mon Aug 27 15:43:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A8D130E41 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 15:43:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K-7F5dbttx56 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 15:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62c.google.com (mail-pl1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6729130E3C for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 15:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id s17-v6so234989plp.7 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 15:43:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=J5b2WfMYjYnjipovQw5jq/46y8DS+a4NZU29eNHR6Rs=; b=k3HG1nP2UD9/9hs2dg/wuUBUcYDPuXcyjpK1bHvdpEJqTMP4xdINoJ4EZvF6mEW/jq sPPbXYDdtYf4GjVtYs1OxrYKPEuEAqTt4hfY57UtMKJIUyqb5dDihCNUpZ3Pv6mDi5iJ Ni49em/5XfY9pUX868vSP9EbcYB99fV/rfRmyA/clxRZhF1sBNAQFrU4QyBVkaQGDrFB 5NFPf20/B+SNRHofoD9oSChHyyNPD7v+stOlFFfNnQJRvzyIKuOD8zyvMSfhv2R0x6nk ei+tSWEKDIN325/iPQqC0XWqJyx7nGHf5KnOKjoz12wiE8dL4lU+E4Pql9X8TlouW+Nf Pl8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=J5b2WfMYjYnjipovQw5jq/46y8DS+a4NZU29eNHR6Rs=; b=pePt9rGtxJkdF1qZEnzCWtiRnY+pYZmPXZWoy0M6mLUNJLRAIk2jJL1IKBnYQxJX4B QCSB8AmUkoBVHKsNg439JBVkOO8ce+cHpjLGzfRti9vPuKYmMDZS/vbSvE70HC18b6O9 TbyhdTPOoooXQg3EnPWcYxGvNfsuk9hpGwb96LncsRZJ3r2l7jXvk0gE03l9kJvu635W fcioepvEwUz3a1hKbhKHA7YQA6l/ChgKs3nNnwF4wRAi0+WZGi+vQ96sFdFdb3QFMvkL fqkzL9hyLQ/MObOtI2KCX6dqxbqig0O50T3PIJ0kDMv+kHxOMhf1uhNVVT2QZ8+aqB1c FC5g== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BVwRx5uDOshkCT1neMkCeCv1NSTdovy+vk6XD3sWnc1AAYxlAw YYwicD4sAUJl51njxOX5BqJ0QGKl X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdaQ5mB5xEw4e9wctLqUIEolIKuB6gMh7vfLJpIP/sV/T2IpcPMmsk7d0TNDju7Lbl3B0CC1vw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d887:: with SMTP id b7-v6mr110945plz.329.1535409825220; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 15:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4700:1280:409c:e4b2:5eda:640c? ([2601:647:4700:1280:409c:e4b2:5eda:640c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o20-v6sm604134pfj.35.2018.08.27.15.43.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Aug 2018 15:43:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4F922C3B-E36C-41AB-90F1-EB2E6F20A930" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 15:44:46 -0700 References: To: "netconf@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 22:43:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4F922C3B-E36C-41AB-90F1-EB2E6F20A930 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have not reviewed the entire document, but have looked at the Security = Considerations section. The document follows the template defined in OPS-Dir wiki here = , but = there is a reference in the template that needs to be updated. s/NETCONF access control model/Network Configuration Access Control = Model (NACM)/ Also, can the list of subtrees and data nodes that are = sensitive/vulnerable be made a bulleted list. The first item on that = list is not one of the nodes. Can it not be intended or moved into the = description before the list? Thanks. > On Aug 14, 2018, at 10:28 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17: >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17 >=20 >=20 > This marks the beginning of the last calls on the yang push suite of = drafts. > Given the size and number of documents, the chairs decided to break = the=20 > reviews up into pieces so as to get focus on each in turn. We are = choosing > to go top-down, starting with yang-push and ending with the "notif" = drafts. > We plan to submit the drafts for publication when they are ready as a=20= > collective. The goal is to do all this prior to IETF 103. >=20 > We understand that, in reviewing yang-push, there is a need to = consider the > subscribed-notifications draft. We will not be surprised if, in the = course > of things, both drafts are updated, even though the review is = primarily on > the yang-push draft. >=20 > While it's always nice to receive messages of support, at this time, = the > question isn't so much if the working group supports the work, than if > the document is ready to progress. The chairs need to see reviews = that > indicate thorough end-to-end reading of the text. Of course, if there > are any objections, these should be brought forward now as well. >=20 > The current version (-17) of this draft was published on July 1st, = just > before the IETF 102 meeting. The datatracker page for the draft is = here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Kent (and Mahesh) >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_4F922C3B-E36C-41AB-90F1-EB2E6F20A930 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I = have not reviewed the entire document, but have looked at the Security = Considerations section.

The document follows the template defined in OPS-Dir = wiki here, but there is a reference in the template that needs = to be updated.

s/NETCONF access control model/Network Configuration Access = Control Model (NACM)/

Also, can the list of subtrees and data nodes that are = sensitive/vulnerable be made a bulleted list. The first item on that = list is not one of the nodes. Can it not be intended or moved into the = description before the list?

Thanks.

On Aug = 14, 2018, at 10:28 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>= wrote:

This message starts a Last Call on = draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17:

 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17=


This marks the beginning of = the last calls on the yang push suite of drafts.
Given the = size and number of documents, the chairs decided to break the
reviews up into pieces so as to get focus on each in turn. =  We are choosing
to go top-down, starting with = yang-push and ending with the "notif" drafts.
We plan to = submit the drafts for publication when they are ready as a
collective.  The goal is to do all this prior to IETF = 103.

We understand that, in reviewing = yang-push, there is a need to consider the
subscribed-notifications draft.  We will not be = surprised if, in the course
of things, both drafts are = updated, even though the review is primarily on
the = yang-push draft.

While it's always nice to = receive messages of support, at this time, the
question = isn't so much if the working group supports the work, than if
the document is ready to progress.  The chairs need to = see reviews that
indicate thorough end-to-end reading of = the text.  Of course, if there
are any objections, = these should be brought forward now as well.

The current version (-17) of this draft was published on July = 1st, just
before the IETF 102 meeting.  The = datatracker page for the draft is here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push.


Thanks,
Kent= (and Mahesh)


_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

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mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F35HWFqDl0YD for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5988130DEB for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 0FD7F223691C7 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 02:16:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 02:16:51 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.188]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.168]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:16:48 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Martin Bjorklund , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUNImzU9I4weZMB0iH1L0LVTTudKTT9lwA Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:16:48 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB59E44@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <20180815.131758.1464388348783195997.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20180815.131758.1464388348783195997.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.193.35.68] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:16:59 -0000 Hi Martin, thank you for your comments. =20 Please see my responses inline, (Apologies for the sluggish response; I have been travelling) --- Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin > Bjorklund > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 4:18 AM > To: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Kent Watsen wrote: > > This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17: >=20 > I have reviewed this document, and I think it is almost ready. Here are = my > comments: >=20 >=20 > o 3.3 >=20 > The text says: >=20 > Putting it all together, following is the conceptual process for > creating an push-change-update notification: >=20 > Up until this point, the text has just talked about "update > record". Here it says "an push-change-update notification". >=20 > Maybe simply s/an push-change-update notification/an update record/? >=20 The process itself talk also about sending the record to the receive= r. How about refining it to say " following is the conceptual process for creating a update record as part of an on-change subscription:"? =20 >=20 > o 3.4 >=20 > The text says: >=20 > the solution that is defined in this document mandates that a > publisher notifies receivers immediately and reliably whenever it > encounters a situation in which it is unable to keep the terms of the > subscription, and provides the publisher with the option to suspend > the subscription in such a case. >=20 > I think it would help if you could put a forward reference to the > mechanism that exists to do this immediate notification. >=20 Adding the following forward reference:=20 "This is described further in Section 3.11.1." =20 >=20 > o 3.5.2 >=20 > The text describes incorrect usage of the "insert" operation; it is > only applicable to user ordered lists. Also, there is no reason for > special handling of deletion of list entries. (also use the term > "list entry" rather than "element"). Hence, I suggest: >=20 > OLD: >=20 > A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value of a > datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" operation > (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new datastore > node was created (other than an element in a list), a publisher will > indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a datastore node > was deleted (other than an element in a list), the publisher > indicates this by a "delete". When a new list element was created or > removed, the publisher indicates it by an "insert" or "remove", > respectively. >=20 > NEW: >=20 > A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value of a > datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" operation > (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new datastore > node was created (other than an entry in a user ordered list), a > publisher will indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a > datastore node was deleted, the publisher indicates this by a > "delete". When a new entry in a user ordered list was created, the > publisher indicates this by an "insert" operation. >=20 OK, changed. >=20 > o 3.5.2 >=20 > In the last paragraph, s/"merge"/"replace"/ > since the paragraph before just describes "replace", not "merge". >=20 done > Shouldn't the text also mention the operation "move" for user > ordered lists? >=20 Thank you. Added the following text: " When an entry in a user-orde= red list was moved, the publisher indicates this by a "move" operation. " >=20 > o 3.6 >=20 > s/Xpath/XPath/ done >=20 >=20 > o 3.7 >=20 > The examples are not quite correct, and I suggest they are modified > to not include deprecated nodes: >=20 > OLD: >=20 > > 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z > > 1011 > > > > eth0 > up > > > > > >=20 > NEW: >=20 > > 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z > > 1011 > > > > eth0 > up > > > > > >=20 >=20 > OLD: >=20 > > 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z > push"> > 89 > > > 1 > > edit1 > merge > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces-state > > > > eth0 > down > > > > > > > > >=20 > NEW: >=20 > > 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z > push"> > 89 > > > 1 > > edit1 > replace > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces > > > > eth0 > down > > > > > > > > >=20 > (uses the "replace" operation, fixed xml namespace, don't use > interfaces-state) >=20 Thank you. Updated. >=20 > o 3.8 >=20 > s/establish-subscription-datasore-error-info/ > establish-subscription-datastore-error-info/ >=20 Fixed, thank you >=20 > o 3.8 >=20 > The text says: >=20 > In the case of a rejected request for an establishment of a datastore > subscription, the hints MUST be transported within a yang-data > "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" container >=20 > Do you mean that *if* there are hints, they MUST be sent within this > container, or you mean that on failure, this container MUST be sent? >=20 > (ditto for modify-subscription-datastore-error-info) >=20 > (it seems 4.4.1 says that hints SHOULD be included, but Appendix A > that they MUST be included) >=20 Changing "MUST" to "SHOULD". And yes, *if* there are hints. I don= 't think a change to Appendix A, is needed; it does not actually state tha= t they must be included. (It says the yang-data with the hint MUST be sent= if hints are included.) =20 >=20 > o 3.9 >=20 > s/RFC8342/RFC8341/ > s/rfc6536bis/RFC8341/ >=20 Thank you, changed >=20 > o 3.9 >=20 > It is difficult to relate Figure 5 to the text. Should it be moved > to right after the first paragraph? I think it would be useful to > add a reference from the text that examplains the "updated access > control rules" to the figure. >=20 I moved the paragraph preceding Figure 5, as well as Figure 5 itself= , further to the top (behind the first paragraph). > Also, s/update message/update record/ in the figure. >=20 Done >=20 > o 3.9 >=20 > The text says: >=20 > A publisher MAY choose reject an establish-subscription request which > selects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a > publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or suspend a > configured receiver when the authorization privileges of a receiver > change, or the access controls for subscribed objects change. Such a > capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support a > continuous, and total filtering of an entire subscription's content. >=20 > In these cases above, the error identity "unchanging-selection" > SHOULD be returned. >=20 > "the cases above" refers to (i) terminating a dynamic subscription, > or (ii) suspend a configured receiver. What does it mean to > "return" an error identity when a subscription is terminated, or > suspended? >=20 > Maybe you meant that the error identity "unchanging-selection" > SHOULD be sent in an "subscription-terminated" notification or > "subscription-suspended" notification, respectively. >=20 > If so, the "unchanging-selection" identity should probably also > derive from "sn:subscription-suspended-reason". >=20 Changed this section as follows: "A publisher MAY choose to reject an establish-subscription request which s= elects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a publisher MAY = choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or suspend a configured receiver= when the authorization privileges of a receiver change, or the access cont= rols for subscribed objects change. As reason, the error identity "unchang= ing-selection" SHOULD be returned. Such a capability enables the publisher = to avoid having to support continuous and total filtering of a subscription= 's content for every update record. It also reduces the possibility of lea= kage of access-controlled objects." On a separate note, the next paragraph states: "If read access into = previously accessible nodes has been lost due to a receiver permissions cha= nge, this SHOULD be reported as a patch "delete" operation for on-change su= bscriptions. If not capable of handling such receiver permission changes wi= th such a "delete", publisher implementations MUST force dynamic subscripti= on re-establishment or configured subscription re-initialization so that ap= propriate filtering is installed." =20 I am wondering if one should actually report the "delete"-operation here. = This is somewhat inaccurate, as the object may not have been actually dele= ted, only its access has been revoked. I am leaving this as is for now, bu= t am wondering if we should change this instead as follows: =20 " If read access into previously accessible nodes has been lost due to a re= ceiver permissions change, publisher implementations MUST force dynamic sub= scription re-establishment or configured subscription re-initialization so = that appropriate filtering is installed." Thoughts? >=20 > o 3.11.1 >=20 > The text says: >=20 > It is not > required to merge pending update messages. >=20 > This can be read as indicating that a server MAY merge pending > update messages. I assume that it should say that pending update > messages MUST NOT be merged. Hmm. I am not sure I agree. The server is not required to merge pe= nding update messages - i.e. can send multiple messages each with a separat= e update record. However, there is no reason to preclude that they could b= e combined. So, I don't think an update is needed here. =20 >=20 > Also, s/update message/update record/ >=20 Sure >=20 > o 4.2 >=20 > s/an "excluded-change" flag/an "excluded-change" parameter/ >=20 > (it is more than just a flag...) >=20 Updated >=20 > o 4.3.2 >=20 > The second paragraph is a bit confusing. I suggest to simplify: >=20 > OLD: >=20 > A "subscription-id" MUST be transported along with the subscribed > contents. An [RFC5277] Section 4 one-way notification MAY be used > for encoding updates. Where it is, the relevant "subscription-id" > MUST be encoded as the first element within each "push-update" or > "push-change-update". This allows a receiver to differentiate which > subscription resulted in a particular push. >=20 > NEW: >=20 > A "subscription-id" is transported along with the subscribed > contents. This allows a receiver to differentiate which > subscription resulted in a particular push. >=20 Updated >=20 > o 4.4.1 >=20 > The examples are (still) wrong. >=20 > OLD: >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications= " > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > ds:operational > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0" > select=3D"/ex:foo"/> > > > 500 > > >=20 > NEW: >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications= " > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > ds:operational > > data/1.0"> > /ex:foo > > > 500 > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > OLD: >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"= > > ok > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"= > > 52 > > >=20 > NEW: >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"= > > 52 > > >=20 >=20 > OLD: >=20 > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > ds:operational > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > /ex:foo > > > 100 > > > >=20 > NEW: >=20 > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > ds:operational > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > /ex:foo > > > 100 > > > >=20 >=20 Updated >=20 >=20 > o 4.4.1 >=20 > REMOVE: >=20 > o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that corresponds to > an identity with a base of "establish-subscription-error". >=20 > (this app-tag thing was removed from subscribed-notifications) >=20 >=20 > And modify the example accordingly: >=20 > OLD: >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > application > operation-failed > error > > on-change-unsupported > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"= > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > >=20 > NEW: >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications= "> > > application > operation-failed > error > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > yp:on-change-unsupported > > > >=20 >=20 I think there are some mismatches in the NEW as indicated above (no = error-info closing bracket, xmln:yp without container) - updated as follows= (NEW2): application operation-failed error /yp:periodic/yp:period yp:on-change-unsupported =20 > o 4.4.2 >=20 > The example is wrong: >=20 > OLD: >=20 > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > 1011 > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > ds:operational > > netconf:type=3D"xpath" xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.= 0"> > /ex:bar > > > 250 > > > >=20 > NEW: >=20 > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > 1011 > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > ds:operational > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > /ex:bar > > > 250 > > > >=20 Done >=20 > o 4.4.2 >=20 > REMOVE: >=20 > o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that corresponds to > an identity with a base of "modify-subscription-error". >=20 Done >=20 > o 4.4.5 >=20 > s/YANG 1.0/YANG 1/ >=20 > (the version is "1", not "1.0") >=20 Done >=20 > o 4.4.5 >=20 > I suggest you remove the sentence: >=20 > The > "/modules-state/module-set-id" leaf in the "ietf-yang-library" module > can be used to cache the YANG library information. >=20 > This is chnaged with yang-library-bis, and the sentence is not > really needed in this draft. >=20 Agreed, removed >=20 > o 4.4.5 >=20 > I don't understand what the third paragraph is supposed to tell me. > Can it be removed? >=20 >=20 Greatly simplified and rephrased it as follows: " The set of modules, revisions, features, and deviations can change at run= -time (if supported by the publisher implementation). For this purpose, the= YANG library provides a simple "yang-library-change" notification that inf= orms the subscriber that the library has changed. In this case, a subscrip= tion may need to be updated to take the updates into account. The receiver= may also need to be informed of module changes in order to process updates= regarding datastore nodes from changed modules correctly." > o 5 >=20 > In subscribed-notifications, the subscription identifier leaf is > called "identifier", in this model it is called "subscription-id" > and "identifier". >=20 > I think the two models should use the same term. Either change this > model, or subscribed notifications. Remember to update the > examples. >=20 I think what you refer to is the way that subscriptions are identif= ied in push update notifications. In all other places, we consistently use= subscription-id as the type, and "identifier" to identify a subscription (= YANG-Push does not introduce a new leaf, but imports yp:identifier). =20 Personally I find the term "identifier" a bit generic. That said, if you w= ant to make it consistent, we should stick with what we have in subscribed = notifications (to keep the impact low). I am not really convinced it is a = change for the better, but I am updating the model to use "identifier" in t= he push update notifications (push-update and push-change-update) to identi= fy subscriptions. Examples have been updated accordingly. =20 >=20 > o 5 >=20 > Is it ok to do: >=20 > > operational > >=20 > Probably not, so I suggest making this illegal in the model: >=20 > augment "/sn:establish-subscription/sn:input" { > when "sn:target/yp:datastore"; // NEW statement >=20 > description > "This augmentation adds additional subscription parameters that > apply specifically to datastore updates to RPC input."; > uses update-policy; > } >=20 > and ditto for all of: >=20 > augment "/sn:modify-subscription/sn:input" { > augment "/sn:subscription-started" { > augment "/sn:subscription-modified" { > augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription" { >=20 >=20 > and then modify update-policy-modifiable to make the update-trigger > choice mandatory: >=20 > grouping update-policy-modifiable { > description > "This grouping describes the datastore specific subscription > conditions that can be changed during the lifetime of the > subscription."; > choice update-trigger { > mandatory true; // NEW >=20 >=20 I am not sure I understand this comment fully. Can you please clari= fy? You should be able to subscribe to updates to . I don't= think this should be precluded. =20 I guess you are referring to the fact that you would like to make update-tr= igger mandatory? Arguably, the server should always be able to reject a r= equest it cannot fulfill, which may include underspecification. =20 Let me add your suggested augmentation to the inputs for establish-subscrip= tion and modify-subscription. I don't think this would be needed for a not= ification, which is generated by the server anyway. Let me also add the = mandatory statement to the grouping; however, I am not sure this is actuall= y legal, as the grouping will be used in an augmentation. (Can an augmenta= tion contain a "mandatory" item?) =20 >=20 > o 5 >=20 > I have made this comment before. The anydata node > "datastore-changes" should be a container that uses the grouping > "yang-patch". It is more precise than using anydata and in text > explain that the opaque anydata must be yang patch. >=20 ok >=20 >=20 > o 5 >=20 > identity result-too-big { >=20 > identity synchronization-size { >=20 >=20 > Why do we need both these errors? Can't we just have a single one, > maybe "update-too-big"? >=20 > (I think that *result-too-big* is a misnomer. If the result of an > rpc is too big, the standard error-tag "too-big" should be used.) Renamed "result-too-big" to "update-too-big". However, leaving the = synchronization-size identity. That one would be used for resynch only. W= hile strictly speaking it may be possible to eliminate, it probably doesn't= hurt either. >=20 > o 5 >=20 > Since 3.5.2 specifies that a subset of all operations from YANG > patch to be used in push update records, shouldn't the typedef > change-type only include this subset? >=20 > Otherwise, why should a client be able to exclude "merge", when > "merge" can never be included? >=20 Not sure what you would like me to change? remove "merge" from the = enum? =20 >=20 >=20 > o 9.2 >=20 > The reference [bergstra2014] is not used and can be removed. >=20 Removed >=20 > o Comment from an earlier review: >=20 > (the document also uses the term "data object" and "datastore > object", these should be fixed) >=20 > These should both be changed to "datastore node" or "object". >=20 Changed the last remaining instances >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Mon Aug 27 18:23:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D440130EB5 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:23:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Q2PepYP5AmR for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66ABC130E8E for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 097762E5FE5DB for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 02:23:20 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 02:23:21 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.188]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.168]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:23:15 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUM/QwQhG4fwKiUkSHvZFCs3Awe6TUcrlQ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:23:14 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB59E63@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.193.35.68] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:23:25 -0000 It probably goes without saying, but as one of the authors I support moving= this document forward. We are in the process of applying changes per the = comments that are received and will post a -18 shortly. All comments recei= ved so far are fairly minor and appear non-controversial. =20 --- Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Watsen > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 10:28 AM > To: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 >=20 > This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17: >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17 >=20 >=20 > This marks the beginning of the last calls on the yang push suite of draf= ts. > Given the size and number of documents, the chairs decided to break the > reviews up into pieces so as to get focus on each in turn. We are choosi= ng to > go top-down, starting with yang-push and ending with the "notif" drafts. > We plan to submit the drafts for publication when they are ready as a > collective. The goal is to do all this prior to IETF 103. >=20 > We understand that, in reviewing yang-push, there is a need to consider t= he > subscribed-notifications draft. We will not be surprised if, in the cour= se of > things, both drafts are updated, even though the review is primarily on t= he > yang-push draft. >=20 > While it's always nice to receive messages of support, at this time, the > question isn't so much if the working group supports the work, than if th= e > document is ready to progress. The chairs need to see reviews that indic= ate > thorough end-to-end reading of the text. Of course, if there are any > objections, these should be brought forward now as well. >=20 > The current version (-17) of this draft was published on July 1st, just b= efore > the IETF 102 meeting. The datatracker page for the draft is here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Kent (and Mahesh) >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Mon Aug 27 18:24:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A90B130E8E for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:24:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TJ1UswfbRxQO for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3360B130DEB for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 32B9A70F2BB91 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 02:24:20 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 02:23:21 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.188]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.168]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:23:15 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUM/QwQhG4fwKiUkSHvZFCs3Awe6TUcrlQ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:23:14 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB59E63@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.193.35.68] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:24:26 -0000 It probably goes without saying, but as one of the authors I support moving= this document forward. We are in the process of applying changes per the = comments that are received and will post a -18 shortly. All comments recei= ved so far are fairly minor and appear non-controversial. =20 --- Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Watsen > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 10:28 AM > To: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 >=20 > This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17: >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17 >=20 >=20 > This marks the beginning of the last calls on the yang push suite of draf= ts. > Given the size and number of documents, the chairs decided to break the > reviews up into pieces so as to get focus on each in turn. We are choosi= ng to > go top-down, starting with yang-push and ending with the "notif" drafts. > We plan to submit the drafts for publication when they are ready as a > collective. The goal is to do all this prior to IETF 103. >=20 > We understand that, in reviewing yang-push, there is a need to consider t= he > subscribed-notifications draft. We will not be surprised if, in the cour= se of > things, both drafts are updated, even though the review is primarily on t= he > yang-push draft. >=20 > While it's always nice to receive messages of support, at this time, the > question isn't so much if the working group supports the work, than if th= e > document is ready to progress. The chairs need to see reviews that indic= ate > thorough end-to-end reading of the text. Of course, if there are any > objections, these should be brought forward now as well. >=20 > The current version (-17) of this draft was published on July 1st, just b= efore > the IETF 102 meeting. The datatracker page for the draft is here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Kent (and Mahesh) >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Mon Aug 27 19:16:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47BDA130EE6 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 19:16:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net 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with mapi id 15.20.1101.007; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 02:16:44 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type Thread-Index: AQHUOUk8IdLBwLq95EWszUO4eDF4yKTKZDSAgAESIICAA7pUAIAEHU8AgADmugA= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 02:16:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4EAB4AE6-9957-46C5-A811-D0187C605AF2@juniper.net> <20180822.104517.297330493199273368.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180827.103054.258602442749709056.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20180827.103054.258602442749709056.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 x-originating-ip: [193.110.55.13] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM6PR05MB3980; 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YWZ0IGlzIGhlcmU6DQogICAgaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQt aWV0Zi1uZXRjb25mLXlhbmctcHVzaC4NCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICBUaGFua3MsDQogICAgS2Vu dCAoYW5kIE1haGVzaCkNCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KICAgIE5ldGNvbmYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgTmV0 Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v bmV0Y29uZg0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Mon Aug 27 20:23:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D056130E2C for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 20:23:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KhWZpUyekAVo for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 20:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 676A5130E01 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 20:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 965ACD3C9601C for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 04:23:44 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 04:23:45 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.79]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:23:38 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUM/QwQhG4fwKiUkSHvZFCs3Awe6TUk3QA///7D4A= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 03:23:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <645E45E1-EE1F-4E06-9B38-DE457003AC4C@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <645E45E1-EE1F-4E06-9B38-DE457003AC4C@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 03:23:52 -0000 QSBmZXcgY29tbWVudHMgb24geWFuZy1wdXNoLTE3Og0KSSBoYXZlIGRpZmZpY3VsdCB0byB1bmRl cnN0YW5kIHNlY3Rpb24gMy4yIG9mIHlhbmctcHVzaC0xNzoNClNlY3Rpb24gMy4yIG9mIHlhbmct 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lwToQXuO8DVo for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 22:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (anna.eecs.jacobs-university.de [IPv6:2001:638:709:5::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55288124D68 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 22:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6453E245E8F3; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 07:33:58 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 07:33:58 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: Martin Bjorklund , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180828053358.fcenzrh5srtz5gl3@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , Martin Bjorklund , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <4EAB4AE6-9957-46C5-A811-D0187C605AF2@juniper.net> <20180822.104517.297330493199273368.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180827.103054.258602442749709056.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 05:34:04 -0000 On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 02:16:44AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Having an "on-demand" connection-type seems counter intuitive, as it is > providing configuration for a connection that is driven by some external > function, that may or may not be configuration. > LMAP would likely call home on demand as well, i.e., triggered by other stuff going on in an LMAP agent. Do we really want an augmentation for all the different reasons why a device may want to call home? > I'm disturbed by the "on-demand" part of the periodic/scheduled > definition. The original idea was that the "demand" part would be > something like the need to push logs but, as per the YP discussion, > there might be a whole other connection for that purpose. In a > multi-manager scenario, it makes sense to periodically call-home > to the "provisioning" system while separately send logs on-demand > to the "monitoring" system. If a device had configuration for a > periodic or scheduled (or even persistent), it still wouldn't know > to use that connection for the logs; the "demand" part, which > seems rational to define, never materializes. The demand part in the system you are describing is a call home triggered by the event "I am running out of log buffer space" or "I had a partial restart event" or "a hardware compomnent is dying" or ... There are probably a number of situations where a device may want to call home out of schedule and I am not sure it is reasonable to model them each one of them as augmentations. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Aug 28 00:06:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A13FA130E51 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:06:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1lzw5C7WnqIE for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD75E12F1A5 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 684C71AE0449; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 09:06:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 09:06:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180828.090648.398453385489817261.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <28C3C2C7-22BE-4425-A26C-4A777FA68A95@juniper.net> <20180827.102118.630809612057220140.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Mandatory local configuration in Keystore groupings X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing 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Ci9tYXJ0aW4NCg== From nobody Tue Aug 28 00:18:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9FCA130DD2 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:18:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JPw8ObtZK-GB for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA6BB12F1A5 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C01B1AE047F; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 09:18:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 09:18:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180828.091832.1398197257133304.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20180827.103054.258602442749709056.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 07:18:36 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > > >> >> "periodic" is meant to cover on-demand also. > >> > > >> > But even if it allows on-demand, it will still do periodic connects. > >> > >> Correct, that's the point of this configuration. Maybe we need to > >> define another enum called "on-demand"? > > > > Yes, that was what I suggested in the first email in this thread. > > Having an "on-demand" connection-type seems counter intuitive, as it is > providing configuration for a connection that is driven by some external > function, that may or may not be configuration. > > Your goal appears to be to support periodic YANG-push subscription. > Presumably configured subscriptions (since dynamic subscriptions are > effectively "persistent" connections). I assume that you're thinking > that the e.g., coap-notif augments in a leafref to a coap-server that > is "on-demand", and that the "demand" is from YP periodic trigger. I think the leafref can point to a client with any kind of connection; on-demand, periodic or persistent. > Perhaps, rather than defining a seemingly incomplete "on-demand" > connection type, the "notif" drafts could augment in an "subscription- > driven" connection type into the appropriate ietf-foo-server model? > Thus giving the "demand" some meaning? I agree w/ Juergen here. "demand" gets meaning from populating the leafref in the -notif model. There is no reason to have one connection type per "trigger"; in fact that would be problematic, it is not unreasonable to have multiple such "triggers" pointing to the same "call-home/netconf-client." > >> > To be clear, I think we should have: (in the server model) > >> > > >> > | +--rw periodic! > >> > | +--rw idle-timeout? uint16 > >> > | +--rw period? uint16 > >> > | +--rw anchor-time? yang:date-and-time > > Perhaps there's a third (or fourth, if you include "on-demand") > connection-type called "scheduled", and it has anchor-time mandatory? > > Periodic is intended to be more fluid, e.g, for a server that wants to > have contact with the device every hour. If a device has a need to > initiate an on-demand connection after 20 minutes, that constitutes > "contact" and the clock resets. I think the difference between "scheduled" (with anchor-time) and "periodic" (without anchor-time) is quite subtle. Do we really need both? (note that in the YP model anchor-time is optional) > I'm disturbed by the "on-demand" part of the periodic/scheduled > definition. The original idea was that the "demand" part would be > something like the need to push logs Maybe we need both; "strictly periodic/scheduled" and "periodic/scheduled + on-demand". > but, as per the YP discussion, > there might be a whole other connection for that purpose. In a > multi-manager scenario, it makes sense to periodically call-home > to the "provisioning" system while separately send logs on-demand > to the "monitoring" system. *if* they are different systems. It is not unreasonable to also send logs to the provisioning systems. > If a device had configuration for a > periodic or scheduled (or even persistent), it still wouldn't know > to use that connection for the logs; the "demand" part, which > seems rational to define, never materializes. Huh? It would know this b/c of the leafref from netconf-notif to call-home/netconf-client. Maybe I misunderstood what you mean. /martin > > > >> In YP, "period" is mandatory but, still, the description statements > >> aren't clear. > > > > Then they need to be clarified. But that's a different email thread! > > I hope Alex sees this. > > > > Kent // contributor > > From nobody Tue Aug 28 01:09:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8553A130E54 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:09:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TPT4L0sDc8mk for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76141130E45 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 58F6A1AE0449; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 10:09:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 10:09:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180828.100917.925597025431754922.mbj@tail-f.com> To: alexander.clemm@huawei.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org, evoit@cisco.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB59E44@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <20180815.131758.1464388348783195997.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB59E44@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 08:09:27 -0000 Hi, Thanks for addressing my comments. Some replies inline. Alexander Clemm wrote: > Hi Martin, > > thank you for your comments. > > Please see my responses inline, > > (Apologies for the sluggish response; I have been travelling) > > --- Alex > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin > > Bjorklund > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 4:18 AM > > To: netconf@ietf.org > > Subject: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 > > > > Hi, > > > > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17: > > > > I have reviewed this document, and I think it is almost ready. Here > > are my > > comments: > > > > > > o 3.3 > > > > The text says: > > > > Putting it all together, following is the conceptual process for > > creating an push-change-update notification: > > > > Up until this point, the text has just talked about "update > > record". Here it says "an push-change-update notification". > > > > Maybe simply s/an push-change-update notification/an update record/? > > > > The process itself talk also about sending the record to the > receiver. How about refining it to say " following is the conceptual > process for > creating a update record as part of an on-change subscription:"? > Ok. (s/a update/an update/) > > o 3.4 > > > > The text says: > > > > the solution that is defined in this document mandates that a > > publisher notifies receivers immediately and reliably whenever it > > encounters a situation in which it is unable to keep the terms of the > > subscription, and provides the publisher with the option to suspend > > the subscription in such a case. > > > > I think it would help if you could put a forward reference to the > > mechanism that exists to do this immediate notification. > > > > Adding the following forward reference: > "This is described further in Section 3.11.1." Ok. > > > > > o 3.5.2 > > > > The text describes incorrect usage of the "insert" operation; it is > > only applicable to user ordered lists. Also, there is no reason for > > special handling of deletion of list entries. (also use the term > > "list entry" rather than "element"). Hence, I suggest: > > > > OLD: > > > > A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value of a > > datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" operation > > (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new datastore > > node was created (other than an element in a list), a publisher will > > indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a datastore node > > was deleted (other than an element in a list), the publisher > > indicates this by a "delete". When a new list element was created or > > removed, the publisher indicates it by an "insert" or "remove", > > respectively. > > > > NEW: > > > > A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value of a > > datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" operation > > (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new datastore > > node was created (other than an entry in a user ordered list), a > > publisher will indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a > > datastore node was deleted, the publisher indicates this by a > > "delete". When a new entry in a user ordered list was created, the > > publisher indicates this by an "insert" operation. > > > > OK, changed. > > > > > o 3.5.2 > > > > In the last paragraph, s/"merge"/"replace"/ > > since the paragraph before just describes "replace", not "merge". > > > > done > > > Shouldn't the text also mention the operation "move" for user > > ordered lists? > > > Thank you. Added the following text: " When an entry in a > user-ordered list was moved, the publisher indicates this by a "move" > operation. " Ok. > > o 3.6 > > > > s/Xpath/XPath/ > > done > > > > > > > o 3.7 > > > > The examples are not quite correct, and I suggest they are modified > > to not include deprecated nodes: > > > > OLD: > > > > > > 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > > eth0 > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > > eth0 > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z > > > > 89 > > > > > > 1 > > > > edit1 > > merge > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces-state > > > > > > > > eth0 > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z > > > > 89 > > > > > > 1 > > > > edit1 > > replace > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces > > > > > > > > eth0 > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (uses the "replace" operation, fixed xml namespace, don't use > > interfaces-state) > > > > Thank you. Updated. > > > > > o 3.8 > > > > s/establish-subscription-datasore-error-info/ > > establish-subscription-datastore-error-info/ > > > > Fixed, thank you > > > > > o 3.8 > > > > The text says: > > > > In the case of a rejected request for an establishment of a datastore > > subscription, the hints MUST be transported within a yang-data > > "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" container > > > > Do you mean that *if* there are hints, they MUST be sent within this > > container, or you mean that on failure, this container MUST be sent? > > > > (ditto for modify-subscription-datastore-error-info) > > > > (it seems 4.4.1 says that hints SHOULD be included, but Appendix A > > that they MUST be included) > > > > Changing "MUST" to "SHOULD". And yes, *if* there are hints. I > don't think a change to Appendix A, is needed; it does not actually > state that they must be included. (It says the yang-data with the > hint MUST be sent if hints are included.) So then it seems that this text (3.8) says that if there are hints, they SHOULD be transported witin the "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" container, but the appendix says that if there are hints they MUST be sent within the "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" container. I would prefer to have the normative language in just one place (probably not in the appendix). But I also think that the current text in the appendix is more clear, since it says that *if* there are hints, they MUST be transported... > > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > s/RFC8342/RFC8341/ > > s/rfc6536bis/RFC8341/ > > > > Thank you, changed > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > It is difficult to relate Figure 5 to the text. Should it be moved > > to right after the first paragraph? I think it would be useful to > > add a reference from the text that examplains the "updated access > > control rules" to the figure. > > > > I moved the paragraph preceding Figure 5, as well as Figure 5 > itself, further to the top (behind the first paragraph). > > > Also, s/update message/update record/ in the figure. > > > > Done > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > The text says: > > > > A publisher MAY choose reject an establish-subscription request which > > selects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a > > publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or suspend a > > configured receiver when the authorization privileges of a receiver > > change, or the access controls for subscribed objects change. Such a > > capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support a > > continuous, and total filtering of an entire subscription's content. > > > > In these cases above, the error identity "unchanging-selection" > > SHOULD be returned. > > > > "the cases above" refers to (i) terminating a dynamic subscription, > > or (ii) suspend a configured receiver. What does it mean to > > "return" an error identity when a subscription is terminated, or > > suspended? > > > > Maybe you meant that the error identity "unchanging-selection" > > SHOULD be sent in an "subscription-terminated" notification or > > "subscription-suspended" notification, respectively. > > > > If so, the "unchanging-selection" identity should probably also > > derive from "sn:subscription-suspended-reason". > > > > Changed this section as follows: > "A publisher MAY choose to reject an establish-subscription request > which selects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a > publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or suspend a > configured receiver when the authorization privileges of a receiver > change, or the access controls for subscribed objects change. As > reason, the error identity "unchanging-selection" SHOULD be > returned. Such a capability enables the publisher to avoid having to > support continuous and total filtering of a subscription's content for > every update record. It also reduces the possibility of leakage of > access-controlled objects." > This new text doesn't address my concern, which is the usage of the term "return". How can a server "return" anything when a subscription is terminated? > On a separate note, the next paragraph states: "If read access > into previously accessible nodes has been lost due to a receiver > permissions change, this SHOULD be reported as a patch "delete" > operation for on-change subscriptions. If not capable of handling such > receiver permission changes with such a "delete", publisher > implementations MUST force dynamic subscription re-establishment or > configured subscription re-initialization so that appropriate > filtering is installed." > > I am wondering if one should actually report the "delete"-operation > here. This is somewhat inaccurate, as the object may not have been > actually deleted, only its access has been revoked. I am leaving this > as is for now, but am wondering if we should change this instead as > follows: > " If read access into previously accessible nodes has been lost due to > a receiver permissions change, publisher implementations MUST force > dynamic subscription re-establishment or configured subscription > re-initialization so that appropriate filtering is installed." > > Thoughts? Ok with me. > > > > > > o 3.11.1 > > > > The text says: > > > > It is not > > required to merge pending update messages. > > > > This can be read as indicating that a server MAY merge pending > > update messages. I assume that it should say that pending update > > messages MUST NOT be merged. > > Hmm. I am not sure I agree. The server is not required to > merge pending update messages - i.e. can send multiple messages each > with a separate update record. However, there is no reason to > preclude that they could be combined. So, I don't think an update is > needed here. > So you say that the text means that the server MAY merge pending update messages in this case? If so, I think you should update the text so that this is clear. > > Also, s/update message/update record/ > > > > Sure > > > > > o 4.2 > > > > s/an "excluded-change" flag/an "excluded-change" parameter/ > > > > (it is more than just a flag...) > > > > Updated > > > > > o 4.3.2 > > > > The second paragraph is a bit confusing. I suggest to simplify: > > > > OLD: > > > > A "subscription-id" MUST be transported along with the subscribed > > contents. An [RFC5277] Section 4 one-way notification MAY be used > > for encoding updates. Where it is, the relevant "subscription-id" > > MUST be encoded as the first element within each "push-update" or > > "push-change-update". This allows a receiver to differentiate which > > subscription resulted in a particular push. > > > > NEW: > > > > A "subscription-id" is transported along with the subscribed > > contents. This allows a receiver to differentiate which > > subscription resulted in a particular push. > > > > Updated > > > > > o 4.4.1 > > > > The examples are (still) wrong. > > > > OLD: > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > > ds:operational > > > > > xmlns:ex="http://example.com/sample-data/1.0" > > select="/ex:foo"/> > > > > > > 500 > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > /ex:foo > > > > > > 500 > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > ok > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > 52 > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > 52 > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > xmlns:netconf="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > xmlns:ds="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > ds:operational > > > > > xmlns:ex="http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > /ex:foo > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > xmlns:netconf="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > xmlns:ds="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > ds:operational > > > > > xmlns:ex="http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > /ex:foo > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > > > Updated > > > > > > > o 4.4.1 > > > > REMOVE: > > > > o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that corresponds to > > an identity with a base of "establish-subscription-error". > > > > (this app-tag thing was removed from subscribed-notifications) > > > > > > And modify the example accordingly: > > > > OLD: > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > application > > operation-failed > > error > > > > on-change-unsupported > > > > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > > > application > > operation-failed > > error > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > yp:on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > > > > > I think there are some mismatches in the NEW as indicated above > (no error-info closing bracket, xmln:yp without container) - updated > as follows (NEW2): > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > application > operation-failed > error > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > yp:on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.2 > > > > The example is wrong: > > > > OLD: > > > > > xmlns:netconf="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > 1011 > > > xmlns:ds="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > ds:operational > > > > > netconf:type="xpath" xmlns:ex="http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > /ex:bar > > > > > > 250 > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > xmlns:netconf="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > 1011 > > > xmlns:ds="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > ds:operational > > > > > xmlns:ex="http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > /ex:bar > > > > > > 250 > > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > o 4.4.2 > > > > REMOVE: > > > > o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that corresponds to > > an identity with a base of "modify-subscription-error". > > > > Done > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > s/YANG 1.0/YANG 1/ > > > > (the version is "1", not "1.0") > > > > > Done > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > I suggest you remove the sentence: > > > > The > > "/modules-state/module-set-id" leaf in the "ietf-yang-library" module > > can be used to cache the YANG library information. > > > > This is chnaged with yang-library-bis, and the sentence is not > > really needed in this draft. > > > > Agreed, removed > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > I don't understand what the third paragraph is supposed to tell me. > > Can it be removed? > > > > > > Greatly simplified and rephrased it as follows: > " The set of modules, revisions, features, and deviations can change > at run-time (if supported by the publisher implementation). For this > purpose, the YANG library provides a simple "yang-library-change" > notification that informs the subscriber that the library has changed. > In this case, a subscription may need to be updated to take the > updates into account. The receiver may also need to be informed of > module changes in order to process updates regarding datastore nodes > from changed modules correctly." > Ok. > > o 5 > > > > In subscribed-notifications, the subscription identifier leaf is > > called "identifier", in this model it is called "subscription-id" > > and "identifier". > > > > I think the two models should use the same term. Either change this > > model, or subscribed notifications. Remember to update the > > examples. > > > > I think what you refer to is the way that subscriptions are > identified in push update notifications. In all other places, we > consistently use subscription-id as the type, and "identifier" to > identify a subscription (YANG-Push does not introduce a new leaf, but > imports yp:identifier). > > Personally I find the term "identifier" a bit generic. That said, if > you want to make it consistent, we should stick with what we have in > subscribed notifications (to keep the impact low). I am not really > convinced it is a change for the better, but I am updating the model > to use "identifier" in the push update notifications (push-update and > push-change-update) to identify subscriptions. Examples have been > updated accordingly. > > Ok. (I agree that "subscription-id" is more descriptive...) > > o 5 > > > > Is it ok to do: > > > > > > operational > > > > > > Probably not, so I suggest making this illegal in the model: > > > > augment "/sn:establish-subscription/sn:input" { > > when "sn:target/yp:datastore"; // NEW statement > > > > description > > "This augmentation adds additional subscription parameters that > > apply specifically to datastore updates to RPC input."; > > uses update-policy; > > } > > > > and ditto for all of: > > > > augment "/sn:modify-subscription/sn:input" { > > augment "/sn:subscription-started" { > > augment "/sn:subscription-modified" { > > augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription" { > > > > > > and then modify update-policy-modifiable to make the update-trigger > > choice mandatory: > > > > grouping update-policy-modifiable { > > description > > "This grouping describes the datastore specific subscription > > conditions that can be changed during the lifetime of the > > subscription."; > > choice update-trigger { > > mandatory true; // NEW > > > > > > I am not sure I understand this comment fully. Can you please > clarify? You should be able to subscribe to updates to . > I don't think this should be precluded. > I guess you are referring to the fact that you would like to make > update-trigger mandatory? Yes. > Arguably, the server should always be able > to reject a request it cannot fulfill, which may include > underspecification. Sure, but if a parameter is mandatory it is better to mark it as such instead of letting implementors figuring this out on their own. > Let me add your suggested augmentation to the inputs for > establish-subscription and modify-subscription. I don't think this > would be needed for a notification, which is generated by the server > anyway. Let me also add the mandatory statement to the grouping; > however, I am not sure this is actually legal, as the grouping will be > used in an augmentation. (Can an augmentation contain a "mandatory" > item?) Yes, in YANG 1.1, and it was added specifically for use cases like this, where the mandatory node are "protected" by a "when" expression. > > > > > > o 5 > > > > I have made this comment before. The anydata node > > "datastore-changes" should be a container that uses the grouping > > "yang-patch". It is more precise than using anydata and in text > > explain that the opaque anydata must be yang patch. > > > > ok > > > > > > o 5 > > > > identity result-too-big { > > > > identity synchronization-size { > > > > > > Why do we need both these errors? Can't we just have a single one, > > maybe "update-too-big"? > > > > (I think that *result-too-big* is a misnomer. If the result of an > > rpc is too big, the standard error-tag "too-big" should be used.) > > Renamed "result-too-big" to "update-too-big". However, leaving > the synchronization-size identity. That one would be used for resynch > only. While strictly speaking it may be possible to eliminate, it > probably doesn't hurt either. > > > > > > o 5 > > > > Since 3.5.2 specifies that a subset of all operations from YANG > > patch to be used in push update records, shouldn't the typedef > > change-type only include this subset? > > > > Otherwise, why should a client be able to exclude "merge", when > > "merge" can never be included? > > > > Not sure what you would like me to change? remove "merge" from > the enum? > Yes, my suggestion is to remove "merge" and "remove". > > o 9.2 > > > > The reference [bergstra2014] is not used and can be removed. > > > > Removed > > > > > > o Comment from an earlier review: > > > > (the document also uses the term "data object" and "datastore > > object", these should be fixed) > > > > These should both be changed to "datastore node" or "object". > > > > Changed the last remaining instances > /martin From nobody Tue Aug 28 02:42:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com 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No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oOTBg_mavRaw for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 05:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.72.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62819130E7A for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 05:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id w7SCnAel026981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 14:49:12 +0200 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (134.102.43.163) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 14:49:05 +0200 To: References: From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 14:49:04 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [134.102.43.163] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:49:20 -0000 Hi all, after a thorough review of yang-push-17 I think it is in good shape and ready to progress. A few comments below (more of the nit'esque kind): In 2. Update Record It seems to me that "update record" and "update" are used synonymously in this document? If so, please add something like the following to the definition of update record- NEW: "In this document, update records are often simply referred to as "updates"." In 3.1. Subscription Model OLD: "YANG-push subscriptions are defined using a data model that is itself defined in YANG." I assume there is a good reason for not just phrasing it like - NEW: "YANG-push subscriptions are defined using a YANG data model." In 3.1. Dampening period OLD: "The dampening period goes into effect every time an update record completes assembly." For clarity (and probably implementation guidance) maybe highlight - NEW: "The dampening period goes into effect every time an update record completes assembly. As long as a dampening period is in effect, the Update Trigger functions the same way as with periodic subscriptions, using the dampening period as the periodic interval." In 3.2. OLD: "However, there are no guarantees that subsequent requests which consider these hints will be accepted." NEW: "However, there are no guarantees that subsequent requests, which consider these hints, will be accepted." In 3.3. OLD: "In case of a configured subscription, the subscription MAY be suspended." NEW: "In case of a configured subscription, the subscription MAY be suspended by the publisher." In 3.3. conceptual process "access control rules" are rather surprisingly introduced here and then never mentioned again. In 3.3. conceptual process Same thing with "patch record" the term is only used in the context of the conceptual process and never again. Why is this not an update record? The relationship to RFC8072 is elaborated on in 3.5.2., but is surprising to be found here already. In 3.3. OLD: "A publisher SHOULD reject a request for a subscription if it is unlikely that the publisher will be able fulfill the terms of that subscription request." NEW: "A publisher SHOULD reject a request for a subscription, if it is unlikely that the publisher will be able fulfill the terms of that subscription request." In 3.5.1. OLD: "In a periodic subscription, the data included as part of an update corresponds to data that could have been read using a retrieval operation." See above. Is there a difference between update and update record? If so, highlight it, please - Optional NEW: "In a periodic subscription, the data included as part of an update record corresponds to data that could have been read using a retrieval operation." (there are multiple occurrences) In 3.5.2. OLD: "Therefore encoding rules for data in on-change updates will generally follow YANG-patch operation as specified in [RFC8072]." NEW: "Therefore, encoding rules for data in on-change updates will generally follow YANG-patch operation as specified in [RFC8072]." In 3.5.2. OLD: "However a patch must be able to do more than just describe the delta from the previous state to the current state. As per Section 3.3, it must also be able to identify if transient changes have occurred on an object during a dampening period." NEW: "However, a patch must be able to do more than just describe the delta from the previous state to the current state. As per Section 3.3, it must also be able to identify, if transient changes have occurred on an object during a dampening period." In 3.6. xpath, Xpath and XPath are found in this section. More consistency cannot hurt. In 3.7. OLD: "First it will be used as the initial "push-update" if there is a need to synchronize the receiver at the start of a new subscription." NEW: "First, it will be used as the initial "push-update", if there is a need to synchronize the receiver at the start of a new subscription." In 4.3.2. OLD: "Where it is, the relevant "subscription-id" MUST be encoded as the first element within each "push-update" or "push-change-update"." NEW: "If present, "subscription-id" MUST be encoded as the first element within each "push-update" or "push-change-update"." In 4.4.1. OLD: "The specific parameters to be returned in as part of the RPC error response depend on the specific transport that is used to manage the subscription." NEW: "The specific parameters to be returned as part of the RPC error response depend on the specific transport that is used to manage the subscription." In 4.4.2. The non-normative may is intentional here, correct? Also, rpc is also low caps here again - more consistency cannot hurt? "This rpc error response may contain hints encapsulated within the yang-data structure "modify-subscription-error-datastore". In 4.4.4. OLD: "This RPC is only applicable only for on-change subscriptions previously established using an "establish-subscription" RPC." NEW: "This RPC is only applicable for on-change subscriptions previously established using an "establish-subscription" RPC." In 4.4.5. Is this intended to be a guidance section? It seems to me that the use of RFC6470 might be a good enough basis to warrant a SHOULD somewhere? Viele Grüße, Henk On 08/14/2018 07:28 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17 > > > This marks the beginning of the last calls on the yang push suite of drafts. > Given the size and number of documents, the chairs decided to break the > reviews up into pieces so as to get focus on each in turn. We are choosing > to go top-down, starting with yang-push and ending with the "notif" drafts. > We plan to submit the drafts for publication when they are ready as a > collective. The goal is to do all this prior to IETF 103. > > We understand that, in reviewing yang-push, there is a need to consider the > subscribed-notifications draft. We will not be surprised if, in the course > of things, both drafts are updated, even though the review is primarily on > the yang-push draft. > > While it's always nice to receive messages of support, at this time, the > question isn't so much if the working group supports the work, than if > the document is ready to progress. The chairs need to see reviews that > indicate thorough end-to-end reading of the text. Of course, if there > are any objections, these should be brought forward now as well. > > The current version (-17) of this draft was published on July 1st, just > before the IETF 102 meeting. The datatracker page for the draft is here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push. > > > Thanks, > Kent (and Mahesh) > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Tue Aug 28 06:03:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2128130EB7 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 06:03:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rx_EIbWcLWT2 for ; 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charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All,  Given the following list in a dummy module called "disable-alarms":      list disable-alarm {          key "resource";          leaf resource {              type instance-identifier;          }          leaf disable {              type boolean;          }      } And assuming that an entry exists in that list for a resource referring to an interface named 'port' in the "ietf-interfaces" module of RFC-7332. How do I build a RESTCONF GET request for that entry? Will it be: GET /restconf/data/disable-alarms:disable-alarm=/ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='port'] HTTP/1.1 Host: example.com Accept: application/yang-data+xml I have not encoded the URL above for readability. I understand that it should be something like: /restconf/data/disable-alarms:disable-alarm=%2Fietf-interfaces%3Ainterfaces%2Finterface[name%3D'port'] If this is not correct, what should be provided in the URL? Yves --------------213F4BF0F123964B5D27A08E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi All,

 Given the following list in a dummy module called "disable-alarms":

     list disable-alarm {
         key "resource";
         leaf resource {
             type instance-identifier;
         }
         leaf disable {
             type boolean;
         }
     }

And assuming that an entry exists in that list for a resource referring to an interface named 'port' in the "ietf-interfaces" module of RFC-7332.

How do I build a RESTCONF GET request for that entry?

Will it be:

      GET /restconf/data/disable-alarms:disable-alarm=/ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='port'] HTTP/1.1
      Host: example.com
      Accept: application/yang-data+xml
I have not encoded the URL above for readability. I understand that it should be something like:
	/restconf/data/disable-alarms:disable-alarm=%2Fietf-interfaces%3Ainterfaces%2Finterface[name%3D'port']
If this is not correct, what should be provided in the URL?

Yves
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Thread-Index: AQHUM/QwQhG4fwKiUkSHvZFCs3Awe6TUk3QA///7D4CAAPeoQA== Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:46:44 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5A145@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <645E45E1-EE1F-4E06-9B38-DE457003AC4C@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.193.35.68] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:47:01 -0000 SGkgUWluLA0KDQp0aGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgY29tbWVudHMhICBSZXBsaWVzIGlubGluZSwg PEFMRVg+DQoNCi0tLSBBbGV4DQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJv 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aXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_e1553e32631443328bb807b9ad9c95c4XCHRTP013ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Aug 28 11:45:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DC17127148 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:45:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NyvrTM0SxKOq for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6516129C6A for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 19BF176B74032 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 19:44:54 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 19:44:56 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.188]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.173]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:44:52 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , "Tim Jenkins (timjenki)" CC: "alex@clemm.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUPhaKcQxQfuHY+Uq6v1G3YGy+OqTV7yqA//+S8KA= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:44:51 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5A202@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: 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IHNob3VsZCBoYXZlIGVmZmVjdCBvbiB0aGUgJ3J1bm5pbmcnIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gdG9vIChi eSBzZXR0aW5nIA0KPiB0aGUgbWFuZGF0b3J5IGxlYXZlcykgc2luY2UgdGhlIHVzZXIgd2FudHMg dG8gY29udGludWUgd29ya2luZyB3aXRoDQo+IHRoZSByZXN1bHQgYnkgZGVwbG95aW5nIGNlcnRp ZmljYXRlcyBvciBhbnl0aGluZyBlbHNlIHJlbGF0ZWQgdG8gDQo+IHRoZSBjcmVhdGVkIGFzeW1t ZXRyaWMga2V5IHRoYXQgbmVlZHMgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbi4gDQoNCk9rYXksIGJ1dCB3aHkgdXNl IGFuIGFjdGlvbiBhdCBhbGwgdGhlbj8gIEV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgY2FuIGJlIGRvbmUgdmlhDQpzdGFu ZGFyZCBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uLCByaWdodD8NCg0KDQpLZW50IC8vIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yDQoNCg0K From nobody Tue Aug 28 12:17:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB4E128B14 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:17:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aFtyroW3tqQm for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52015130EAC for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1AD1F1B039EA; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 21:17:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 21:17:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180828.211749.1055874324314612702.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20180828.091832.1398197257133304.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 19:17:57 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > > >> Your goal appears to be to support periodic YANG-push subscription. > >> Presumably configured subscriptions (since dynamic subscriptions are > >> effectively "persistent" connections). I assume that you're thinking > >> that the e.g., coap-notif augments in a leafref to a coap-server that > >> is "on-demand", and that the "demand" is from YP periodic trigger. > > > > I think the leafref can point to a client with any kind of connection; > > on-demand, periodic or persistent. > > Are you implying connection sharing, multi-channeling? Please define > the behavior you're expecting in each case. What transport protocol > requirements are there? Good point. This issue exists also in the current model, since "periodic" also covers on-demand. Anyway, I think that limiting to a single session is too restrictive. So it seems ok to allow the server to start multiple sessions (note that w/ ssh, a session *may* be just another channel). If we agree that multiple sessions are ok, do we put any limit on the number of sessions? Probably not, imo. Implementation detail. > >> Perhaps, rather than defining a seemingly incomplete "on-demand" > >> connection type, the "notif" drafts could augment in an "subscription- > >> driven" connection type into the appropriate ietf-foo-server model? > >> Thus giving the "demand" some meaning? > > > > I agree w/ Juergen here. "demand" gets meaning from populating the > > leafref in the -notif model. There is no reason to have one > > connection type per "trigger"; in fact that would be problematic, it > > is not unreasonable to have multiple such "triggers" pointing to the > > same "call-home/netconf-client." > > Agreed. Assuming you count all of YP+SN (really the notif drafts) as > just one trigger. The "subscribed-notifications" connection-type would > be once per transport type, not transport instance. Any other "trigger" > examples? Are they always configured with something like the leafref > we've discussed for the notif drafts? I think so. > > I think the difference between "scheduled" (with anchor-time) and > > "periodic" (without anchor-time) is quite subtle. Do we really need > > both? (note that in the YP model anchor-time is optional) > > ACK > > > > I'm disturbed by the "on-demand" part of the periodic/scheduled > > definition. The original idea was that the "demand" part would be > > something like the need to push logs > > > Maybe we need both; "strictly periodic/scheduled" and > > "periodic/scheduled + on-demand". > > Confused. Not sure how this helps, and above you said that you'd > want to point to any connection type, including persistent. I meant that in some cases it might be useful to let the *operator* define a connection type to be "strictly periodic", i.e., the server will NOT create any sessions on demand. In some other cases maybe the operator want periodic connections, but it is ok with on demand connections as well (this is the current "periodic"). So for netconf-notif, I envision a leafref to a "client", with text that explains that if the connection type is: o persistent then the notif is sent "immediately" (if possible, otherwise queued). o "strictly periodic" then the notifs are queued until the next period starts (implementation-specific qlen) o "periodic" or "on-demand" then a new session is started (meanwhile notifs are queued), and once the session is started, the notifs can be sent > >> but, as per the YP discussion, > >> there might be a whole other connection for that purpose. In a > >> multi-manager scenario, it makes sense to periodically call-home > >> to the "provisioning" system while separately send logs on-demand > >> to the "monitoring" system. > > > > *if* they are different systems. It is not unreasonable to also send > > logs to the provisioning systems. > > Yes, both scenarios exist and need to be supported. > > > >> If a device had configuration for a > >> periodic or scheduled (or even persistent), it still wouldn't know > >> to use that connection for the logs; the "demand" part, which > >> seems rational to define, never materializes. > > > > Huh? It would know this b/c of the leafref from netconf-notif to > > call-home/netconf-client. Maybe I misunderstood what you mean. > > > Sorry, I was unclear. Yes, holistically, the configuration resolves > where the demand comes from, assuming that there is indeed a configured > subscription having a leafref to an "on-demand" connection type. But > that's my point, the configuration isn't assured. The "on-demand" > connection could be configured and no one points to it. There is no > back-pointer. There's nothing that says at least one leafref must > point to it. s/on-demand/configured-subscription/ provides clue, but > doesn't prevent orphaned config. Aha, ok, I see. Well, this is, as you say, just orphaned config. I think that is ok. /martin From nobody Tue Aug 28 12:23:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5972127B92 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:23:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mZumGRPhLxPc for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE14126BED for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D40FF1B039EA; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 21:23:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 21:23:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180828.212338.1325240417175615395.mbj@tail-f.com> To: balazs.kovacs@ericsson.com Cc: kwatsen@juniper.net, balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20180828.090648.398453385489817261.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Mandatory local configuration in Keystore groupings X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 19:23:42 -0000 SGksDQoNCkJhbMOhenMgS292w6FjcyA8YmFsYXpzLmtvdmFjc0Blcmljc3Nvbi5jb20+IHdyb3Rl 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X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 19:44:08 -0000 SGkgTWFoZXNoLCBhbGwsDQoNCj4gSXQgbWFrZXMgc2Vuc2UgdGhhdCBpdCBiZSBhbiBvcGVyYXRv ci1kZWNpc2lvbi4gQWZ0ZXIgYWxsIHRoZXkgYXJlDQo+IHRoZSBvbmVzIGluIHRoZSBmaWVsZCB0 cnlpbmcgdG8gZGlhZ25vc2UgdGhlIHByb2JsZW0gaW4gdGhlIGZpZWxkLg0KDQpJbiB0aGlua2lu ZyBhYm91dCBob3cgdG8gZW5hYmxlIGFuIG9wZXJhdG9yICh2aWEgYSBib290c3RyYXAgc2VydmVy KSB0bw0KaW5kaWNhdGUgdGhhdCBpdCB3b3VsZCBsaWtlICJ2ZXJib3NlIiBwcm9ncmVzcyByZXBv cnRzLCBJIGNhbWUgdXAgd2l0aA0KdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZy4NCg0KICBycGMgZ2V0LWJvb3RzdHJh cHBpbmctZGF0YSB7DQogICAgaW5wdXQgew0KICAgICAgLi4uDQogICAgfQ0KICAgIG91dHB1dCB7 DQogICAgICBsZWFmIHJlcG9ydGluZy1sZXZlbCB7DQogICAgICAgIGRlZmF1bHQgc3RhbmRhcmQ7 DQogICAgICAgIHR5cGUgZW51bWVyYXRpb24gew0KICAgICAgICAgIGVudW0gc3RhbmRhcmQgew0K 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X18NCj4gPiBOZXRjb25mIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+IE5ldGNvbmZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiBo dHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldGNvbmYNCj4gPg0KPiANCj4g X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gTmV0Y29u ZiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gTmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldGNvbmYNCg== From nobody Tue Aug 28 17:23:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB81312426A for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:23:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w_P8T_s7Rj6S for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1D57130E28 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 9D097519DE3F0 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 01:23:27 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 01:23:28 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.188]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.168]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:23:22 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "Kent Watsen" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUM/QwQhG4fwKiUkSHvZFCs3Awe6TUk3QAgAFPPcA= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:23:21 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B309@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <645E45E1-EE1F-4E06-9B38-DE457003AC4C@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <645E45E1-EE1F-4E06-9B38-DE457003AC4C@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.193.35.88] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:23:34 -0000 SGkgUmVzaGFkLA0KDQp0aGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgY29tbWVudHMhDQoNClBsZWFzZSBmaW5k 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netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0697F12426A for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:33:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wPm5zo7SHwfy for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CB04130E25 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id C52D05E38091C for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 01:33:46 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 01:33:47 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.188]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.168]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:33:40 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "evoit@cisco.com" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUNImzU9I4weZMB0iH1L0LVTTudKTT9lwAgAFivoCAAJuIoA== Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:33:38 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B32B@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <20180815.131758.1464388348783195997.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB59E44@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> <20180828.100917.925597025431754922.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20180828.100917.925597025431754922.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.193.35.88] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:33:54 -0000 Hi Martin, thank you for your replies! One inline reply, Thanks --- Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Bjorklund [mailto:mbj@tail-f.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 1:09 AM > To: Alexander Clemm > Cc: netconf@ietf.org; evoit@cisco.com > Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Thanks for addressing my comments. Some replies inline. >=20 >=20 > Alexander Clemm wrote: > > Hi Martin, > > > > thank you for your comments. > > > > Please see my responses inline, > > > > (Apologies for the sluggish response; I have been travelling) > > > > --- Alex > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin > > > Bjorklund > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 4:18 AM > > > To: netconf@ietf.org > > > Subject: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17: > > > > > > I have reviewed this document, and I think it is almost ready. Here > > > are my > > > comments: > > > > > > > > > o 3.3 > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > Putting it all together, following is the conceptual process for > > > creating an push-change-update notification: > > > > > > Up until this point, the text has just talked about "update > > > record". Here it says "an push-change-update notification". > > > > > > Maybe simply s/an push-change-update notification/an update record/= ? > > > > > > > The process itself talk also about sending the record to the > > receiver. How about refining it to say " following is the conceptual > > process for > > creating a update record as part of an on-change subscription:"? > > >=20 > Ok. (s/a update/an update/) >=20 > > > o 3.4 > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > the solution that is defined in this document mandates that a > > > publisher notifies receivers immediately and reliably whenever it > > > encounters a situation in which it is unable to keep the terms of = the > > > subscription, and provides the publisher with the option to suspen= d > > > the subscription in such a case. > > > > > > I think it would help if you could put a forward reference to the > > > mechanism that exists to do this immediate notification. > > > > > > > Adding the following forward reference: > > "This is described further in Section 3.11.1." >=20 > Ok. >=20 > > > > > > > > o 3.5.2 > > > > > > The text describes incorrect usage of the "insert" operation; it is > > > only applicable to user ordered lists. Also, there is no reason fo= r > > > special handling of deletion of list entries. (also use the term > > > "list entry" rather than "element"). Hence, I suggest: > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value of a > > > datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" operation > > > (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new datastor= e > > > node was created (other than an element in a list), a publisher wi= ll > > > indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a datastore node > > > was deleted (other than an element in a list), the publisher > > > indicates this by a "delete". When a new list element was created= or > > > removed, the publisher indicates it by an "insert" or "remove", > > > respectively. > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value of a > > > datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" operation > > > (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new datastor= e > > > node was created (other than an entry in a user ordered list), a > > > publisher will indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a > > > datastore node was deleted, the publisher indicates this by a > > > "delete". When a new entry in a user ordered list was created, th= e > > > publisher indicates this by an "insert" operation. > > > > > > > OK, changed. > > > > > > > > o 3.5.2 > > > > > > In the last paragraph, s/"merge"/"replace"/ > > > since the paragraph before just describes "replace", not "merge". > > > > > > > done > > > > > Shouldn't the text also mention the operation "move" for user > > > ordered lists? > > > > > Thank you. Added the following text: " When an entry in a > > user-ordered list was moved, the publisher indicates this by a "move" > > operation. " >=20 > Ok. >=20 > > > o 3.6 > > > > > > s/Xpath/XPath/ > > > > done > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.7 > > > > > > The examples are not quite correct, and I suggest they are modified > > > to not include deprecated nodes: > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z > > > > > > 1011 > > > > > > interfaces"> > > > > > > eth0 > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z > > > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z > > > > > push"> > > > 89 > > > > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > edit1 > > > merge > > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces-state > > > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z > > > > > push"> > > > 89 > > > > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > edit1 > > > replace > > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces > > > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (uses the "replace" operation, fixed xml namespace, don't use > > > interfaces-state) > > > > > > > Thank you. Updated. > > > > > > > > o 3.8 > > > > > > s/establish-subscription-datasore-error-info/ > > > establish-subscription-datastore-error-info/ > > > > > > > Fixed, thank you > > > > > > > > o 3.8 > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > In the case of a rejected request for an establishment of a datast= ore > > > subscription, the hints MUST be transported within a yang-data > > > "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" container > > > > > > Do you mean that *if* there are hints, they MUST be sent within thi= s > > > container, or you mean that on failure, this container MUST be sent= ? > > > > > > (ditto for modify-subscription-datastore-error-info) > > > > > > (it seems 4.4.1 says that hints SHOULD be included, but Appendix A > > > that they MUST be included) > > > > > > > Changing "MUST" to "SHOULD". And yes, *if* there are hints. I > > don't think a change to Appendix A, is needed; it does not actually > > state that they must be included. (It says the yang-data with the > > hint MUST be sent if hints are included.) >=20 > So then it seems that this text (3.8) says that if there are hints, they = SHOULD > be transported witin the "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" > container, but the appendix says that if there are hints they MUST be sen= t > within the "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" container. >=20 > I would prefer to have the normative language in just one place (probably > not in the appendix). But I also think that the current text in the appe= ndix is > more clear, since it says that *if* there are hints, they MUST be > transported... >=20 >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > > > s/RFC8342/RFC8341/ > > > s/rfc6536bis/RFC8341/ > > > > > > > Thank you, changed > > > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > > > It is difficult to relate Figure 5 to the text. Should it be move= d > > > to right after the first paragraph? I think it would be useful to > > > add a reference from the text that examplains the "updated access > > > control rules" to the figure. > > > > > > > I moved the paragraph preceding Figure 5, as well as Figure 5 > > itself, further to the top (behind the first paragraph). > > > > > Also, s/update message/update record/ in the figure. > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > A publisher MAY choose reject an establish-subscription request wh= ich > > > selects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a > > > publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or suspen= d a > > > configured receiver when the authorization privileges of a receive= r > > > change, or the access controls for subscribed objects change. Suc= h a > > > capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support a > > > continuous, and total filtering of an entire subscription's conten= t. > > > > > > In these cases above, the error identity "unchanging-selection" > > > SHOULD be returned. > > > > > > "the cases above" refers to (i) terminating a dynamic subscription, > > > or (ii) suspend a configured receiver. What does it mean to > > > "return" an error identity when a subscription is terminated, or > > > suspended? > > > > > > Maybe you meant that the error identity "unchanging-selection" > > > SHOULD be sent in an "subscription-terminated" notification or > > > "subscription-suspended" notification, respectively. > > > > > > If so, the "unchanging-selection" identity should probably also > > > derive from "sn:subscription-suspended-reason". > > > > > > > Changed this section as follows: > > "A publisher MAY choose to reject an establish-subscription request > > which selects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a > > publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or suspend a > > configured receiver when the authorization privileges of a receiver > > change, or the access controls for subscribed objects change. As > > reason, the error identity "unchanging-selection" SHOULD be returned. > > Such a capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support > > continuous and total filtering of a subscription's content for every > > update record. It also reduces the possibility of leakage of > > access-controlled objects." > > >=20 > This new text doesn't address my concern, which is the usage of the term > "return". How can a server "return" anything when a subscription is > terminated? >=20 >=20 > > On a separate note, the next paragraph states: "If read access > > into previously accessible nodes has been lost due to a receiver > > permissions change, this SHOULD be reported as a patch "delete" > > operation for on-change subscriptions. If not capable of handling such > > receiver permission changes with such a "delete", publisher > > implementations MUST force dynamic subscription re-establishment or > > configured subscription re-initialization so that appropriate > > filtering is installed." > > > > I am wondering if one should actually report the "delete"-operation > > here. This is somewhat inaccurate, as the object may not have been > > actually deleted, only its access has been revoked. I am leaving this > > as is for now, but am wondering if we should change this instead as > > follows: > > " If read access into previously accessible nodes has been lost due to > > a receiver permissions change, publisher implementations MUST force > > dynamic subscription re-establishment or configured subscription > > re-initialization so that appropriate filtering is installed." > > > > Thoughts? >=20 > Ok with me. >=20 > > > > > > > > > > o 3.11.1 > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > It is not > > > required to merge pending update messages. > > > > > > This can be read as indicating that a server MAY merge pending > > > update messages. I assume that it should say that pending update > > > messages MUST NOT be merged. > > > > Hmm. I am not sure I agree. The server is not required to > > merge pending update messages - i.e. can send multiple messages each > > with a separate update record. However, there is no reason to > > preclude that they could be combined. So, I don't think an update is > > needed here. > > >=20 > So you say that the text means that the server MAY merge pending update > messages in this case? If so, I think you should update the text so that= this is > clear. >=20 >=20 > > > Also, s/update message/update record/ > > > > > > > Sure > > > > > > > > o 4.2 > > > > > > s/an "excluded-change" flag/an "excluded-change" parameter/ > > > > > > (it is more than just a flag...) > > > > > > > Updated > > > > > > > > o 4.3.2 > > > > > > The second paragraph is a bit confusing. I suggest to simplify: > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > A "subscription-id" MUST be transported along with the subscribed > > > contents. An [RFC5277] Section 4 one-way notification MAY be use= d > > > for encoding updates. Where it is, the relevant "subscription-id" > > > MUST be encoded as the first element within each "push-update" or > > > "push-change-update". This allows a receiver to differentiate whi= ch > > > subscription resulted in a particular push. > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > A "subscription-id" is transported along with the subscribed > > > contents. This allows a receiver to differentiate which > > > subscription resulted in a particular push. > > > > > > > Updated > > > > > > > > o 4.4.1 > > > > > > The examples are (still) wrong. > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notificat= ions" > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0" > > > select=3D"/ex:foo"/> > > > > > > > > > 500 > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notificat= ions" > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > datastores"> > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > data/1.0"> > > > /ex:foo > > > > > > > > > 500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notificati= ons"> > > > ok > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notificati= ons"> > > > 52 > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notificati= ons"> > > > 52 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notificatio= ns" > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > > /ex:foo > > > > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notificatio= ns" > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > > /ex:foo > > > > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Updated > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.1 > > > > > > REMOVE: > > > > > > o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that corresponds = to > > > an identity with a base of "establish-subscription-error". > > > > > > (this app-tag thing was removed from subscribed-notifications) > > > > > > > > > And modify the example accordingly: > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > application > > > operation-failed > > > error > > > > > > on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notificati= ons"> > > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notificat= ions"> > > > > > > application > > > operation-failed > > > error > > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > > > > yp:on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think there are some mismatches in the NEW as indicated above > > (no error-info closing bracket, xmln:yp without container) - updated > > as follows (NEW2): > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications= "> > > > > application > > operation-failed > > error > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > yp:on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.2 > > > > > > The example is wrong: > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notification= s" > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > 1011 > > > > > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > netconf:type=3D"xpath" xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample- > data/1.0"> > > > /ex:bar > > > > > > > > > 250 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notification= s" > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > 1011 > > > > > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > > /ex:bar > > > > > > > > > 250 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > o 4.4.2 > > > > > > REMOVE: > > > > > > o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that corresponds = to > > > an identity with a base of "modify-subscription-error". > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > > > s/YANG 1.0/YANG 1/ > > > > > > (the version is "1", not "1.0") > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > > > I suggest you remove the sentence: > > > > > > The > > > "/modules-state/module-set-id" leaf in the "ietf-yang-library" mod= ule > > > can be used to cache the YANG library information. > > > > > > This is chnaged with yang-library-bis, and the sentence is not > > > really needed in this draft. > > > > > > > Agreed, removed > > > > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > > > I don't understand what the third paragraph is supposed to tell me. > > > Can it be removed? > > > > > > > > > > Greatly simplified and rephrased it as follows: > > " The set of modules, revisions, features, and deviations can change > > at run-time (if supported by the publisher implementation). For this > > purpose, the YANG library provides a simple "yang-library-change" > > notification that informs the subscriber that the library has changed. > > In this case, a subscription may need to be updated to take the > > updates into account. The receiver may also need to be informed of > > module changes in order to process updates regarding datastore nodes > > from changed modules correctly." > > >=20 > Ok. >=20 > > > o 5 > > > > > > In subscribed-notifications, the subscription identifier leaf is > > > called "identifier", in this model it is called "subscription-id" > > > and "identifier". > > > > > > I think the two models should use the same term. Either change thi= s > > > model, or subscribed notifications. Remember to update the > > > examples. > > > > > > > I think what you refer to is the way that subscriptions are > > identified in push update notifications. In all other places, we > > consistently use subscription-id as the type, and "identifier" to > > identify a subscription (YANG-Push does not introduce a new leaf, but > > imports yp:identifier). > > > > Personally I find the term "identifier" a bit generic. That said, if > > you want to make it consistent, we should stick with what we have in > > subscribed notifications (to keep the impact low). I am not really > > convinced it is a change for the better, but I am updating the model > > to use "identifier" in the push update notifications (push-update and > > push-change-update) to identify subscriptions. Examples have been > > updated accordingly. > > > > >=20 > Ok. (I agree that "subscription-id" is more descriptive...) >=20 > > > o 5 > > > > > > Is it ok to do: > > > > > > > > > operational > > > > > > > > > Probably not, so I suggest making this illegal in the model: > > > > > > augment "/sn:establish-subscription/sn:input" { > > > when "sn:target/yp:datastore"; // NEW statement > > > > > > description > > > "This augmentation adds additional subscription parameters that > > > apply specifically to datastore updates to RPC input."; > > > uses update-policy; > > > } > > > > > > and ditto for all of: > > > > > > augment "/sn:modify-subscription/sn:input" { > > > augment "/sn:subscription-started" { > > > augment "/sn:subscription-modified" { > > > augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription" { > > > > > > > > > and then modify update-policy-modifiable to make the update-trigger > > > choice mandatory: > > > > > > grouping update-policy-modifiable { > > > description > > > "This grouping describes the datastore specific subscription > > > conditions that can be changed during the lifetime of the > > > subscription."; > > > choice update-trigger { > > > mandatory true; // NEW > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure I understand this comment fully. Can you please > > clarify? You should be able to subscribe to updates to . > > I don't think this should be precluded. > > I guess you are referring to the fact that you would like to make > > update-trigger mandatory? >=20 > Yes. >=20 > > Arguably, the server should always be able to reject a request it > > cannot fulfill, which may include underspecification. >=20 > Sure, but if a parameter is mandatory it is better to mark it as such ins= tead of > letting implementors figuring this out on their own. >=20 > > Let me add your suggested augmentation to the inputs for > > establish-subscription and modify-subscription. I don't think this > > would be needed for a notification, which is generated by the server > > anyway. Let me also add the mandatory statement to the grouping; > > however, I am not sure this is actually legal, as the grouping will be > > used in an augmentation. (Can an augmentation contain a "mandatory" > > item?) >=20 > Yes, in YANG 1.1, and it was added specifically for use cases like this, = where > the mandatory node are "protected" by a "when" > expression. >=20 >=20 > > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > I have made this comment before. The anydata node > > > "datastore-changes" should be a container that uses the grouping > > > "yang-patch". It is more precise than using anydata and in text > > > explain that the opaque anydata must be yang patch. > > > > > > > ok > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > identity result-too-big { > > > > > > identity synchronization-size { > > > > > > > > > Why do we need both these errors? Can't we just have a single one, > > > maybe "update-too-big"? > > > > > > (I think that *result-too-big* is a misnomer. If the result of an > > > rpc is too big, the standard error-tag "too-big" should be used.) > > > > Renamed "result-too-big" to "update-too-big". However, leaving > > the synchronization-size identity. That one would be used for resynch > > only. While strictly speaking it may be possible to eliminate, it > > probably doesn't hurt either. > > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > Since 3.5.2 specifies that a subset of all operations from YANG > > > patch to be used in push update records, shouldn't the typedef > > > change-type only include this subset? > > > > > > Otherwise, why should a client be able to exclude "merge", when > > > "merge" can never be included? > > > > > > > Not sure what you would like me to change? remove "merge" > from > > the enum? > > >=20 > Yes, my suggestion is to remove "merge" and "remove". >=20 ok > > > o 9.2 > > > > > > The reference [bergstra2014] is not used and can be removed. > > > > > > > Removed > > > > > > > > > > o Comment from an earlier review: > > > > > > (the document also uses the term "data object" and "datastore > > > object", these should be fixed) > > > > > > These should both be changed to "datastore node" or "object". > > > > > > > Changed the last remaining instances >=20 >=20 >=20 > /martin From nobody Tue Aug 28 17:42:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4FC0130E25 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:42:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WpuJASe0ptbq for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 806B512426A for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 74516958B1D06 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 01:41:56 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 01:41:57 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.188]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.30]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:41:55 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Mahesh Jethanandani , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUM/QwQhG4fwKiUkSHvZFCs3Awe6TUvIsAgAE8pIA= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:41:54 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B34A@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.193.35.88] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B34Asjceml521mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:42:02 -0000 --_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B34Asjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mahesh, I changed the text as requested. I moved the first item on the list into p= arantheses as a note before the list. -- Alex From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh Jethana= ndani Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 3:45 PM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 I have not reviewed the entire document, but have looked at the Security Co= nsiderations section. The document follows the template defined in OPS-Dir wiki here, but there is a reference= in the template that needs to be updated. s/NETCONF access control model/Network Configuration Access Control Model (= NACM)/ Also, can the list of subtrees and data nodes that are sensitive/vulnerable= be made a bulleted list. The first item on that list is not one of the nod= es. Can it not be intended or moved into the description before the list? Thanks. On Aug 14, 2018, at 10:28 AM, Kent Watsen > wrote: This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17 This marks the beginning of the last calls on the yang push suite of drafts= . Given the size and number of documents, the chairs decided to break the reviews up into pieces so as to get focus on each in turn. We are choosing to go top-down, starting with yang-push and ending with the "notif" drafts. We plan to submit the drafts for publication when they are ready as a collective. The goal is to do all this prior to IETF 103. We understand that, in reviewing yang-push, there is a need to consider the subscribed-notifications draft. We will not be surprised if, in the course of things, both drafts are updated, even though the review is primarily on the yang-push draft. While it's always nice to receive messages of support, at this time, the question isn't so much if the working group supports the work, than if the document is ready to progress. The chairs need to see reviews that indicate thorough end-to-end reading of the text. Of course, if there are any objections, these should be brought forward now as well. The current version (-17) of this draft was published on July 1st, just before the IETF 102 meeting. The datatracker page for the draft is here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push. Thanks, Kent (and Mahesh) _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B34Asjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mahesh,

 

I changed the text as requested. = ; I moved the first item on the list into parantheses as a note before the = list. 

 

-- Alex

 

From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounce= s@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh Jethanandani
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 3:45 PM
To: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17

 

I have not reviewed the entire document, but have lo= oked at the Security Considerations section.

 

The document follows the template defined in OPS-Dir= wiki here, but there is a reference in the template that needs to b= e updated.

 

s/NETCONF access control model/Network Configuration= Access Control Model (NACM)/

 

Also, can the list of subtrees and data nodes that a= re sensitive/vulnerable be made a bulleted list. The first item on that lis= t is not one of the nodes. Can it not be intended or moved into the descrip= tion before the list?

 

Thanks.



On Aug 14, 2018, at 10:28 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

 

This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netcon= f-yang-push-17:

 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17


This marks the beginning of the last calls on the yang push suite of drafts= .
Given the size and number of documents, the chairs decided to break the reviews up into pieces so as to get focus on each in turn.  We are cho= osing
to go top-down, starting with yang-push and ending with the "notif&quo= t; drafts.
We plan to submit the drafts for publication when they are ready as a
collective.  The goal is to do all this prior to IETF 103.

We understand that, in reviewing yang-push, there is a need to consider the=
subscribed-notifications draft.  We will not be surprised if, in the c= ourse
of things, both drafts are updated, even though the review is primarily on<= br> the yang-push draft.

While it's always nice to receive messages of support, at this time, the question isn't so much if the working group supports the work, than if
the document is ready to progress.  The chairs need to see reviews tha= t
indicate thorough end-to-end reading of the text.  Of course, if there=
are any objections, these should be brought forward now as well.

The current version (-17) of this draft was published on July 1st, just
before the IETF 102 meeting.  The datatracker page for the draft is he= re:
h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push.


Thanks,
Kent (and Mahesh)


_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

 

Mahesh Jethanandani

 

--_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B34Asjceml521mbschi_-- From nobody Tue Aug 28 17:52:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03BEE130DDD for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:52:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bh3IUeH1Xsoz for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADBB5130DD3 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:52:01 -0700 (PDT) X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=Q6OQ2M+a c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=OXtaa+9CFT7WVSERtyqzJw==:117 a=OXtaa+9CFT7WVSERtyqzJw==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=NTnny0joGdQA:10 a=dapMudl6Dx4A:10 a=bmmO2AaSJ7QA:10 a=BTUBnpS-AAAA:8 a=Iwy9DCPzQeMk7noanHkA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=pblkFgjdBCuYZ9-HdJ6i:22 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: ZHNlb21uQHJjbi5jb20= Authentication-Results: smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com header.from=david+work@mandelberg.org; sender-id=neutral Authentication-Results: smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.mail=david+work@mandelberg.org; spf=neutral; sender-id=neutral Authentication-Results: smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.user=dseomn@rcn.com; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received-SPF: neutral (smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com: 209.6.43.168 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of mandelberg.org) Received: from [209.6.43.168] ([209.6.43.168:34626] helo=uriel.mandelberg.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) id DD/78-48224-F2EE58B5; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 20:51:59 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.152] (DD-WRT [192.168.1.1]) by uriel.mandelberg.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C29301C6093; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 20:51:58 -0400 (EDT) To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <153478564565.23119.9766582310559048569@ietfa.amsl.com> <0DA47346-64BE-4FD1-888F-F0E47688C14F@juniper.net> <4be03677-70b8-98a2-49b3-1be4abd5da7e@mandelberg.org> <6FF89601-E95F-4296-B6E5-80438DF03543@juniper.net> From: David Mandelberg Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 20:51:57 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6FF89601-E95F-4296-B6E5-80438DF03543@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-23.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:52:04 -0000 On 08/27/2018 01:22 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >> Section 5.6: "Hinder[ing] the ability for the device to continue the >> bootstrapping sequence" was only part of why I asked about the error >> cases. The other part is that I think there's a security risk in leaving >> bootstrapping enabled after the device is partially/mostly configured, >> since bootstrapping opens the possibility for various parties to change >> the configuration. Is there a reason not to require devices to fully >> rollback the configuration if there's an error after it's applied? > > Why do you think the document allows this? The beginning of s5.6 says: > > Some state MAY be retained from the bootstrapping process (e.g., updated boot > image, logs, remnants from a script, etc.), however, the retained state MUST > NOT hinder the ability for the device to continue the bootstrapping sequence > (i.e., process onboarding information from another bootstrap server). > > Are you thinking that the MAY needs to be a MUST NOT? This text (s5.6) used to > be much more explicit but need to undo the configuration (I think I sent you > that version), but others felt that it was too proscriptive and, as the > Implementation Notes section (at the very end of 5.6) says, the device may have > other ways to reset itself (e.g., relaunch a VM). Thoughts? I think it's fine if boot images and logs are retained, and allowing for variation in how the device resets itself makes sense. I think the MUST NOT covers only half of what shouldn't be retained though. What do you think of this? (Feel free to change my wording, especially if you can think of something less vague than "behave as if".) Some state MAY be retained from the bootstrapping process (e.g., updated boot image, logs, remnants from a script, etc.). However, the retained state MUST NOT hinder the ability for the device to continue the bootstrapping sequence (i.e., process onboarding information from another bootstrap server), and MUST NOT enable the device to behave as if it were successfully configured. -- https://david.mandelberg.org/ From nobody Tue Aug 28 17:54:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4F2130DD3; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:54:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <153550406104.6240.18072686773954198912@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:54:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:54:21 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Datastore Subscription Authors : Alexander Clemm Eric Voit Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Ambika Prasad Tripathy Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Andy Bierman Balazs Lengyel Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18.txt Pages : 57 Date : 2018-08-28 Abstract: Via the mechanism described in this document, subscriber applications may request a continuous, customized stream of updates from a YANG datastore. Providing such visibility into updates enables new capabilities based on the remote mirroring and monitoring of configuration and operational state. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Aug 28 18:07:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00209130E23 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:07:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HPUr03bprIWk for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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817AMf9N6sQ31hCf6TgVTq5OCPKU/PyyGxTYozVsIda6R6+qJA0X/hkSiQgc9e+Yxo2XZyVYFu/6HUnKrReiPGiK8QRddlGW8QHXQTJRVj/4W2SJ3dPAxp+r625ePTlqZE92TEGEr2HFY/B5UKKDuFR2T7lwDjdEZyLF+4zUmhX2icRhuL6MhF8aDFpdD6yZ/LncUnegZ87fF231RQwfWEDsNR2Hij1x+qrCPPS4FSvX3E6U56IwQ1iw6Ct1f+8tir201jPvkIPUfQUu7+HLYXu5IE+h9pRb0InsMOZ4aBwkssZ5sRRYAXq72ww99kVwCrDlc7JIESgK+20y8n5HcZiLl4eaKwPg6/wmz0dNYl0= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <9102F99D9E160949B0E68C6F1B217165@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b953e507-f1c7-4d1e-1d11-08d60d4bbdeb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Aug 2018 01:07:07.8264 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR05MB4315 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: 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SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 06:01:16 +0100 Received: from DGGEML530-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.129]) by DGGEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::74d9:c659:fbec:21fa%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 13:01:08 +0800 From: Rohit R Ranade To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comments on Yang-push-18 //RE: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18.txt Thread-Index: AdQ/VLvBsEuHunkySd2q4Mf8WxSa0A== Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 05:01:07 +0000 Message-ID: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BC192DD@dggeml530-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.18.150.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Comments on Yang-push-18 //RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 05:01:21 -0000 Hi All, 1. In Section 3.3=20 The whole para from "To avoid flooding receivers .. the last change will = still be sent." looks like a repetition of Section 3.1 , description of "Dampening period" =20 2. Section 3.3, Point 4 "insert into the YANG patch record the last change made for any object wh= ich otherwise wouldn't have appeared." =20 I am not able to understand this statement clearly. Can this statement b= e simplified ? =20 3. Section 3.5.2 =20 The para "A publisher will indicate a change to the effect ... this by a "move" operation." This is already defined in the YANG Patch RFC right ? What is the need t= o define this again in this RFC ? =20 4. Section 3.5.2 "To support this, it is valid to encode a YANG patch operation so that i= ts application would result in no change between the previous and current state. This indicates that some churn has occurred on the object. An example of this would be a patch that does a "create" operation for a datastore node where the receiver believes one already exists, or a "replace" operation which replaces a previous value with the same value." =20 =20 Some points here need more clarification. a. If there is no change, but only a churn then why is it important to = send this object in a YANG push ? What is the benefit ? b. If there was a "create" and "delete" on object X, within a dampening= period, then what will be the patch record operation ? c. s/patch that does a "create" operation /patch that indicates a "crea= te" operation ? Patch can indicate the operation not do it. =20 5. Section 3.7 "the counter MUST be reset to '1' the after passing a maximum value of '4= 294967295'" =20 s/reset to '1' the after passing/reset to '1' after passing =20 6. Section 3.7 Figure 2: Push example for on change The "yang-patch" should be under the namespace "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:y= ang:ietf-yang-patch" 7. In the ietf-yang-push, tree diagram " +--ro datastore-changes? +--ro ypatch:yang-patch +--ro patch-id string " =20 There looks to be an indentation problem for "ypatch:yang-patch" =20 8. resynch-subscription-error I feel "sync" is a better abbreviation than "synch" for synchronization,= because when reading this name, we may=20 not pronounce this correctly or read correctly. I also feel "re-sync" i= s better when compared to "resync" 9. Section 3.9. =20 "since the last notification message was sent to a particular each recei= ver.". s/sent to a particular each receiver/sent to a particular receiver =20 =20 10. Section 3.9 =20 "To accomplish this, implementations SHOULD support the conceptual authorization model of [RFC8341], specifically section 3.2.4.= ". The link to section 3.2.4 seems to be broken as it is taking the reader = to the YANG Push draft and not to NACM =20 11. Section 3.9 =20 I think here "access-protected data", is used to indicate that the receiv= er has "no access". I think this is misleading. "access-protected data" means that there are NACM rules to protect the da= ta. Maybe we can replace it with "access-denied data" ? =20 12. Section 3.9 "If read access into previously accessible nodes has been lost due to a receiver permissions change, this SHOULD be reported as a patch "delete" operation for on-change subscriptions." I think we should not have such mechanisms. If a user does not have acces= s, we should not try to evaluate what was the last update sent to such user, and how to send a subsequent patch which will stabilize the= user's DB due to the access-control changes. With Regards, Rohit R Ranade -----Original Message----- From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-draft= s@ietf.org Sent: 29 August 2018 06:24 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Datastore Subscription Authors : Alexander Clemm Eric Voit Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Ambika Prasad Tripathy Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Andy Bierman Balazs Lengyel Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18.txt Pages : 57 Date : 2018-08-28 Abstract: Via the mechanism described in this document, subscriber applications may request a continuous, customized stream of updates from a YANG datastore. Providing such visibility into updates enables new capabilities based on the remote mirroring and monitoring of configuration and operational state. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed Aug 29 00:12:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39FEA130DC0 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:12:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yvmFiWxx2vgy for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B92512008A for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 86F7E1AE0388; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:12:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:12:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180829.091230.1123608459682664816.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <7A1BA8A7-76E5-4961-8DE8-8794FB97AA6C@juniper.net> References: <20180828.211749.1055874324314612702.mbj@tail-f.com> <7A1BA8A7-76E5-4961-8DE8-8794FB97AA6C@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 07:12:33 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > >> > I think the leafref can point to a client with any kind of connection; > >> > on-demand, periodic or persistent. > >> > >> Are you implying connection sharing, multi-channeling? Please define > >> the behavior you're expecting in each case. What transport protocol > >> requirements are there? > > > > Good point. This issue exists also in the current model, since > > "periodic" also covers on-demand. Anyway, I think that limiting to a > > single session is too restrictive. So it seems ok to allow the server > > to start multiple sessions (note that w/ ssh, a session *may* be just > > another channel). If we agree that multiple sessions are ok, do we > > put any limit on the number of sessions? Probably not, imo. > > Implementation detail. > > Yes, the issue exists in the current model too. That is what my > previous email was lamenting. I can't quite figure out how it > would work. > > RFC 8071 says that the client starts the NETCONF-client protocol > (i.e., creates an SSH channel and starts the "netconf" subsystem). > In SSH, the SSH-client must open the channel, the SSH-server can't do > it. Duh. Of course. Ok, but this doesn't really change anything, except if that if the server wants to start two sessions, it will use two TCP connections. > So, let's say that the client knows (because it configured it) > that the server also pushes event notifications. So, then what? > Does it send a special RPC (TBD in a future NN draft) or open > another SSH-channel to, perhaps, start an altogether different > protocol (coap?) to receive the logs? As has been mentioned before, it would have been nice if the server calling home had some way of informing the client of *why* it called home. This could possibly be done (in NETCONF) with a special capability: urn:ietf:...:calling-home?have-notifications urn:ietf:...:calling-home?by-config urn:ietf:...:calling-home?have-alarms > What if there are different > "triggers" all pointing to the same netconf-server instance and > all using "coap"; the server can't use the transport alone to > know what to push to each. It seems that the client has to send > an RPC of some sort in each to bind the transport to a purpose. > But then we're in the realm of dynamic subscriptions and questioning > the value of on-demand connections. [And then there's RESTCONF, > do we assert that both the client and server run HTTP2?] This is related to the question of when the server can send the notifs, but I think that this also can be handled w/ capabilitites rather than requiring an extra rpc; if the client adervtises the capability "urn:ietf:...:call-home-notifications", then the server can start to send the notifications immediately. > All this trouble is because we want to repurpose a NC/RC call-home > connection, so that there is only a single TCP connection (is this > the goal? No, I think the goal is to let the server and clients have the same roles as they do in the normal case, using the same authentication and authorization mechanisms. > why would two device-->NMS connections not be as good?). This is fine imo. > But, in my view, YP+SN is better served as a client: the publisher > connects and pushes content to the receiver. Do you mean that the publisher would be a NETCONF client and the receiver a NETCONF server? But see below! This should be discussed in another thread. > This resolves most > issues, and there is no need for an incompletely defined (in that > it's description statement would say "for reasons not described > here") and possibly orphaned on-demand connection type. The only > problem I see is that it necessitates the use of another connection > when the provisioning system and the monitoring system are in fact > the same, but I don't see that as an important issue, from an > operator perspective and second device-->NMS connection is not > an issue I'm aware of. > > Back to the subject line, my suggestion (for this one issue) is: > > - persistent (unchanged) > - periodic (unchanged, keep the on-demand language) I think we have identified four possible connection types. It would be good to check with thee WG which of the four people think are useful. (probably start a fresh thread, not sure people follow this...?) - persistent - on-demand - periodic-with-on-demand - strictly-periodic > - let the "notif" drafts, for configured subscriptions: > - use -client connections (recommended) > - use -server call-home connections (not recommended) > - augment in an "subscribed-notifications" call-home > connection type and leafref that connection-type > - and/or resolve what it means to point to (repurpose) a > persistent or periodic connection I think we should move this discussion to another thread - if/when we define protocol bindings for configured subscriptions. > > I meant that in some cases it might be useful to let the *operator* > > define a connection type to be "strictly periodic", i.e., the server > > will NOT create any sessions on demand. In some other cases maybe > > the operator want periodic connections, but it is ok with on demand > > connections as well (this is the current "periodic"). > > I'm unsure if this is needed. Either case, the standard call-home > interaction occurs, even for the unexpected "on-demand" connections > and, if the operator, in its config, leafref-ed a call-home connection > for yang-push also, then they did it on purpose. If the operator > wants strictly-periodic, don't configure anything that might cause > an on-demand connection. Right? So how would an operator configure YP then, if the only connection types available are "persistent" and "periodic-with-on-demand"? > > So for netconf-notif, I envision a leafref to a "client", with text > > that explains that if the connection type is: > > > > o persistent then the notif is sent "immediately" (if possible, > > otherwise queued). > > > > o "strictly periodic" then the notifs are queued until the next > > period starts (implementation-specific qlen) > > > > o "periodic" or "on-demand" then a new session is started > > (meanwhile notifs are queued), and once the session is started, > > the notifs can be sent > > Maybe. I'm not yet buying the need to repurpose a call-home > connection for yang-push. It is not just YP, but notifications in general. > > Aha, ok, I see. Well, this is, as you say, just orphaned config. I > > think that is ok. > > Yes, orphaned config is a small worry in all this. > > FYI, another niggle I'm getting is how all repurposed call-home > connections might be supported by generic server frameworks like > NCS. Would NCS examine the device config, determine how many > triggers might have caused this and then, how each, start the > trigger-specific action to see if it was the reason why the > device called home? Why do you call then "repurposed"? This is a problem in general with call-home; how does the client know what to do? An indication of why the server called home might help. /martin From nobody Wed Aug 29 01:22:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9DF12F1A2 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 01:22:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.332 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=K5LKqq5V; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=D4Um18qJ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 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L2FzeW1tZXRyaWMta2V5L25hbWUiOw0KPiAgICAgICAgICAgfQ0KPiAgICAgICAgICAgcmVxdWly ZS1pbnN0YW5jZSBmYWxzZTsNCj4gICAgICAgICAgIG1hbmRhdG9yeSB0cnVlOw0KPiAgICAgICAg IH0NCj4gICAgICAgICAuLi4NCj4gICAgICAgfQ0KPiAgICAgfQ0KPiAgIH0NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBJ IHRoaW5rIG1vZGVsIEIgaXMgY2xlYW5lci4NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IC9tYXJ0aW4NCj4g X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gTmV0Y29u ZiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gTmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldGNvbmYNCg== From nobody Wed Aug 29 06:07:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B9B130E7A for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 06:07:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vSlWip2RP3Rp for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 06:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C6A3130ECE for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 06:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C2EE41AE0388; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 15:07:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 15:07:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180829.150740.1323981906990283714.mbj@tail-f.com> To: alexander.clemm@huawei.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org, evoit@cisco.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B32B@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB59E44@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> <20180828.100917.925597025431754922.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B32B@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 13:07:55 -0000 Alexander Clemm wrote: > Hi Martin, > > thank you for your replies! One inline reply, Ok. What about my other comments? I see that some of them still applies to -18 (the ones you didn't reply to below). Also, looking at the diff for 17-18, I found a new issue: o Section 3 Subscriptions specify when notification messages (also referred to as "push updates") should be sent and what data to include in update records. I accept that you use "update record" and "update" for the same thing (namely "A representation of one or more datastore node updates."). But what is a "push update"? From the quoted text, it seems to be the *notifican message* rather than the "update record". But when the term "push update" is used, it seems to be a third name for "update record". (For example in 3.9: "A publisher MUST ensure that no non-authorized data is included in push updates.") There is also the specific "push-update" notification (one form of "update record", the other being "push-change-update", I assume). In order to avoid confusion, I suggest that you change the occurances of "push update" to simply "update" or "update record" (or "push-update" notification, when/if that is referred to). /martin > > Thanks > --- Alex > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin Bjorklund [mailto:mbj@tail-f.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 1:09 AM > > To: Alexander Clemm > > Cc: netconf@ietf.org; evoit@cisco.com > > Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 > > > > Hi, > > > > Thanks for addressing my comments. Some replies inline. > > > > > > Alexander Clemm wrote: > > > Hi Martin, > > > > > > thank you for your comments. > > > > > > Please see my responses inline, > > > > > > (Apologies for the sluggish response; I have been travelling) > > > > > > --- Alex > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin > > > > Bjorklund > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 4:18 AM > > > > To: netconf@ietf.org > > > > Subject: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-17: > > > > > > > > I have reviewed this document, and I think it is almost ready. Here > > > > are my > > > > comments: > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.3 > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > Putting it all together, following is the conceptual process for > > > > creating an push-change-update notification: > > > > > > > > Up until this point, the text has just talked about "update > > > > record". Here it says "an push-change-update notification". > > > > > > > > Maybe simply s/an push-change-update notification/an update record/? > > > > > > > > > > The process itself talk also about sending the record to the > > > receiver. How about refining it to say " following is the conceptual > > > process for > > > creating a update record as part of an on-change subscription:"? > > > > > > > Ok. (s/a update/an update/) > > > > > > o 3.4 > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > the solution that is defined in this document mandates that a > > > > publisher notifies receivers immediately and reliably whenever it > > > > encounters a situation in which it is unable to keep the terms of the > > > > subscription, and provides the publisher with the option to suspend > > > > the subscription in such a case. > > > > > > > > I think it would help if you could put a forward reference to the > > > > mechanism that exists to do this immediate notification. > > > > > > > > > > Adding the following forward reference: > > > "This is described further in Section 3.11.1." > > > > Ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.5.2 > > > > > > > > The text describes incorrect usage of the "insert" operation; it is > > > > only applicable to user ordered lists. Also, there is no reason for > > > > special handling of deletion of list entries. (also use the term > > > > "list entry" rather than "element"). Hence, I suggest: > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value of a > > > > datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" operation > > > > (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new datastore > > > > node was created (other than an element in a list), a publisher will > > > > indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a datastore node > > > > was deleted (other than an element in a list), the publisher > > > > indicates this by a "delete". When a new list element was created or > > > > removed, the publisher indicates it by an "insert" or "remove", > > > > respectively. > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value of a > > > > datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" operation > > > > (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new datastore > > > > node was created (other than an entry in a user ordered list), a > > > > publisher will indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a > > > > datastore node was deleted, the publisher indicates this by a > > > > "delete". When a new entry in a user ordered list was created, the > > > > publisher indicates this by an "insert" operation. > > > > > > > > > > OK, changed. > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.5.2 > > > > > > > > In the last paragraph, s/"merge"/"replace"/ > > > > since the paragraph before just describes "replace", not "merge". > > > > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > Shouldn't the text also mention the operation "move" for user > > > > ordered lists? > > > > > > > Thank you. Added the following text: " When an entry in a > > > user-ordered list was moved, the publisher indicates this by a "move" > > > operation. " > > > > Ok. > > > > > > o 3.6 > > > > > > > > s/Xpath/XPath/ > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.7 > > > > > > > > The examples are not quite correct, and I suggest they are modified > > > > to not include deprecated nodes: > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > > 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z > > > > > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > > 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z > > > > > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > > 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z > > > > > > > > 89 > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > edit1 > > > > merge > > > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces-state > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > > 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z > > > > > > > > 89 > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > edit1 > > > > replace > > > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (uses the "replace" operation, fixed xml namespace, don't use > > > > interfaces-state) > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. Updated. > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.8 > > > > > > > > s/establish-subscription-datasore-error-info/ > > > > establish-subscription-datastore-error-info/ > > > > > > > > > > Fixed, thank you > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.8 > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > In the case of a rejected request for an establishment of a datastore > > > > subscription, the hints MUST be transported within a yang-data > > > > "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" container > > > > > > > > Do you mean that *if* there are hints, they MUST be sent within this > > > > container, or you mean that on failure, this container MUST be sent? > > > > > > > > (ditto for modify-subscription-datastore-error-info) > > > > > > > > (it seems 4.4.1 says that hints SHOULD be included, but Appendix A > > > > that they MUST be included) > > > > > > > > > > Changing "MUST" to "SHOULD". And yes, *if* there are hints. I > > > don't think a change to Appendix A, is needed; it does not actually > > > state that they must be included. (It says the yang-data with the > > > hint MUST be sent if hints are included.) > > > > So then it seems that this text (3.8) says that if there are hints, they SHOULD > > be transported witin the "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" > > container, but the appendix says that if there are hints they MUST be sent > > within the "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" container. > > > > I would prefer to have the normative language in just one place (probably > > not in the appendix). But I also think that the current text in the appendix is > > more clear, since it says that *if* there are hints, they MUST be > > transported... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > > > > > s/RFC8342/RFC8341/ > > > > s/rfc6536bis/RFC8341/ > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, changed > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > > > > > It is difficult to relate Figure 5 to the text. Should it be moved > > > > to right after the first paragraph? I think it would be useful to > > > > add a reference from the text that examplains the "updated access > > > > control rules" to the figure. > > > > > > > > > > I moved the paragraph preceding Figure 5, as well as Figure 5 > > > itself, further to the top (behind the first paragraph). > > > > > > > Also, s/update message/update record/ in the figure. > > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > A publisher MAY choose reject an establish-subscription request which > > > > selects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a > > > > publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or suspend a > > > > configured receiver when the authorization privileges of a receiver > > > > change, or the access controls for subscribed objects change. Such a > > > > capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support a > > > > continuous, and total filtering of an entire subscription's content. > > > > > > > > In these cases above, the error identity "unchanging-selection" > > > > SHOULD be returned. > > > > > > > > "the cases above" refers to (i) terminating a dynamic subscription, > > > > or (ii) suspend a configured receiver. What does it mean to > > > > "return" an error identity when a subscription is terminated, or > > > > suspended? > > > > > > > > Maybe you meant that the error identity "unchanging-selection" > > > > SHOULD be sent in an "subscription-terminated" notification or > > > > "subscription-suspended" notification, respectively. > > > > > > > > If so, the "unchanging-selection" identity should probably also > > > > derive from "sn:subscription-suspended-reason". > > > > > > > > > > Changed this section as follows: > > > "A publisher MAY choose to reject an establish-subscription request > > > which selects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a > > > publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or suspend a > > > configured receiver when the authorization privileges of a receiver > > > change, or the access controls for subscribed objects change. As > > > reason, the error identity "unchanging-selection" SHOULD be returned. > > > Such a capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support > > > continuous and total filtering of a subscription's content for every > > > update record. It also reduces the possibility of leakage of > > > access-controlled objects." > > > > > > > This new text doesn't address my concern, which is the usage of the term > > "return". How can a server "return" anything when a subscription is > > terminated? > > > > > > > On a separate note, the next paragraph states: "If read access > > > into previously accessible nodes has been lost due to a receiver > > > permissions change, this SHOULD be reported as a patch "delete" > > > operation for on-change subscriptions. If not capable of handling such > > > receiver permission changes with such a "delete", publisher > > > implementations MUST force dynamic subscription re-establishment or > > > configured subscription re-initialization so that appropriate > > > filtering is installed." > > > > > > I am wondering if one should actually report the "delete"-operation > > > here. This is somewhat inaccurate, as the object may not have been > > > actually deleted, only its access has been revoked. I am leaving this > > > as is for now, but am wondering if we should change this instead as > > > follows: > > > " If read access into previously accessible nodes has been lost due to > > > a receiver permissions change, publisher implementations MUST force > > > dynamic subscription re-establishment or configured subscription > > > re-initialization so that appropriate filtering is installed." > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > Ok with me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.11.1 > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > It is not > > > > required to merge pending update messages. > > > > > > > > This can be read as indicating that a server MAY merge pending > > > > update messages. I assume that it should say that pending update > > > > messages MUST NOT be merged. > > > > > > Hmm. I am not sure I agree. The server is not required to > > > merge pending update messages - i.e. can send multiple messages each > > > with a separate update record. However, there is no reason to > > > preclude that they could be combined. So, I don't think an update is > > > needed here. > > > > > > > So you say that the text means that the server MAY merge pending update > > messages in this case? If so, I think you should update the text so that this is > > clear. > > > > > > > > Also, s/update message/update record/ > > > > > > > > > > Sure > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.2 > > > > > > > > s/an "excluded-change" flag/an "excluded-change" parameter/ > > > > > > > > (it is more than just a flag...) > > > > > > > > > > Updated > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.3.2 > > > > > > > > The second paragraph is a bit confusing. I suggest to simplify: > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > A "subscription-id" MUST be transported along with the subscribed > > > > contents. An [RFC5277] Section 4 one-way notification MAY be used > > > > for encoding updates. Where it is, the relevant "subscription-id" > > > > MUST be encoded as the first element within each "push-update" or > > > > "push-change-update". This allows a receiver to differentiate which > > > > subscription resulted in a particular push. > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > A "subscription-id" is transported along with the subscribed > > > > contents. This allows a receiver to differentiate which > > > > subscription resulted in a particular push. > > > > > > > > > > Updated > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.1 > > > > > > > > The examples are (still) wrong. > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > > > > > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex="http://example.com/sample-data/1.0" > > > > select="/ex:foo"/> > > > > > > > > > > > > 500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > > /ex:foo > > > > > > > > > > > > 500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > > > ok > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > > > 52 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > > > 52 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > > > xmlns:ds="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex="http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > > > /ex:foo > > > > > > > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > > > xmlns:ds="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex="http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > > > /ex:foo > > > > > > > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Updated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.1 > > > > > > > > REMOVE: > > > > > > > > o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that corresponds to > > > > an identity with a base of "establish-subscription-error". > > > > > > > > (this app-tag thing was removed from subscribed-notifications) > > > > > > > > > > > > And modify the example accordingly: > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > > application > > > > operation-failed > > > > error > > > > > > > > on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > > > > > > > application > > > > operation-failed > > > > error > > > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > > > > > > > yp:on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think there are some mismatches in the NEW as indicated above > > > (no error-info closing bracket, xmln:yp without container) - updated > > > as follows (NEW2): > > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" > > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications"> > > > > > > application > > > operation-failed > > > error > > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > > > > yp:on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.2 > > > > > > > > The example is wrong: > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > xmlns:ds="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > netconf:type="xpath" xmlns:ex="http://example.com/sample- > > data/1.0"> > > > > /ex:bar > > > > > > > > > > > > 250 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifications" > > > > xmlns:yp="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > xmlns:ds="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex="http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > > > /ex:bar > > > > > > > > > > > > 250 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > o 4.4.2 > > > > > > > > REMOVE: > > > > > > > > o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that corresponds to > > > > an identity with a base of "modify-subscription-error". > > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > > > > > s/YANG 1.0/YANG 1/ > > > > > > > > (the version is "1", not "1.0") > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > > > > > I suggest you remove the sentence: > > > > > > > > The > > > > "/modules-state/module-set-id" leaf in the "ietf-yang-library" module > > > > can be used to cache the YANG library information. > > > > > > > > This is chnaged with yang-library-bis, and the sentence is not > > > > really needed in this draft. > > > > > > > > > > Agreed, removed > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > > > > > I don't understand what the third paragraph is supposed to tell me. > > > > Can it be removed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greatly simplified and rephrased it as follows: > > > " The set of modules, revisions, features, and deviations can change > > > at run-time (if supported by the publisher implementation). For this > > > purpose, the YANG library provides a simple "yang-library-change" > > > notification that informs the subscriber that the library has changed. > > > In this case, a subscription may need to be updated to take the > > > updates into account. The receiver may also need to be informed of > > > module changes in order to process updates regarding datastore nodes > > > from changed modules correctly." > > > > > > > Ok. > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > In subscribed-notifications, the subscription identifier leaf is > > > > called "identifier", in this model it is called "subscription-id" > > > > and "identifier". > > > > > > > > I think the two models should use the same term. Either change this > > > > model, or subscribed notifications. Remember to update the > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > I think what you refer to is the way that subscriptions are > > > identified in push update notifications. In all other places, we > > > consistently use subscription-id as the type, and "identifier" to > > > identify a subscription (YANG-Push does not introduce a new leaf, but > > > imports yp:identifier). > > > > > > Personally I find the term "identifier" a bit generic. That said, if > > > you want to make it consistent, we should stick with what we have in > > > subscribed notifications (to keep the impact low). I am not really > > > convinced it is a change for the better, but I am updating the model > > > to use "identifier" in the push update notifications (push-update and > > > push-change-update) to identify subscriptions. Examples have been > > > updated accordingly. > > > > > > > > > > Ok. (I agree that "subscription-id" is more descriptive...) > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > Is it ok to do: > > > > > > > > > > > > operational > > > > > > > > > > > > Probably not, so I suggest making this illegal in the model: > > > > > > > > augment "/sn:establish-subscription/sn:input" { > > > > when "sn:target/yp:datastore"; // NEW statement > > > > > > > > description > > > > "This augmentation adds additional subscription parameters that > > > > apply specifically to datastore updates to RPC input."; > > > > uses update-policy; > > > > } > > > > > > > > and ditto for all of: > > > > > > > > augment "/sn:modify-subscription/sn:input" { > > > > augment "/sn:subscription-started" { > > > > augment "/sn:subscription-modified" { > > > > augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription" { > > > > > > > > > > > > and then modify update-policy-modifiable to make the update-trigger > > > > choice mandatory: > > > > > > > > grouping update-policy-modifiable { > > > > description > > > > "This grouping describes the datastore specific subscription > > > > conditions that can be changed during the lifetime of the > > > > subscription."; > > > > choice update-trigger { > > > > mandatory true; // NEW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure I understand this comment fully. Can you please > > > clarify? You should be able to subscribe to updates to . > > > I don't think this should be precluded. > > > I guess you are referring to the fact that you would like to make > > > update-trigger mandatory? > > > > Yes. > > > > > Arguably, the server should always be able to reject a request it > > > cannot fulfill, which may include underspecification. > > > > Sure, but if a parameter is mandatory it is better to mark it as such instead of > > letting implementors figuring this out on their own. > > > > > Let me add your suggested augmentation to the inputs for > > > establish-subscription and modify-subscription. I don't think this > > > would be needed for a notification, which is generated by the server > > > anyway. Let me also add the mandatory statement to the grouping; > > > however, I am not sure this is actually legal, as the grouping will be > > > used in an augmentation. (Can an augmentation contain a "mandatory" > > > item?) > > > > Yes, in YANG 1.1, and it was added specifically for use cases like this, where > > the mandatory node are "protected" by a "when" > > expression. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > I have made this comment before. The anydata node > > > > "datastore-changes" should be a container that uses the grouping > > > > "yang-patch". It is more precise than using anydata and in text > > > > explain that the opaque anydata must be yang patch. > > > > > > > > > > ok > > > > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > identity result-too-big { > > > > > > > > identity synchronization-size { > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do we need both these errors? Can't we just have a single one, > > > > maybe "update-too-big"? > > > > > > > > (I think that *result-too-big* is a misnomer. If the result of an > > > > rpc is too big, the standard error-tag "too-big" should be used.) > > > > > > Renamed "result-too-big" to "update-too-big". However, leaving > > > the synchronization-size identity. That one would be used for resynch > > > only. While strictly speaking it may be possible to eliminate, it > > > probably doesn't hurt either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > Since 3.5.2 specifies that a subset of all operations from YANG > > > > patch to be used in push update records, shouldn't the typedef > > > > change-type only include this subset? > > > > > > > > Otherwise, why should a client be able to exclude "merge", when > > > > "merge" can never be included? > > > > > > > > > > Not sure what you would like me to change? remove "merge" > > from > > > the enum? > > > > > > > Yes, my suggestion is to remove "merge" and "remove". > > > > ok > > > > > o 9.2 > > > > > > > > The reference [bergstra2014] is not used and can be removed. > > > > > > > > > > Removed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o Comment from an earlier review: > > > > > > > > (the document also uses the term "data object" and "datastore > > > > object", these should be fixed) > > > > > > > > These should both be changed to "datastore node" or "object". > > > > > > > > > > Changed the last remaining instances > > > > > > > > /martin > From nobody Wed Aug 29 08:28:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA78130DD0 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 08:28:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4LNahB7wO1PS for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 08:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66100127148 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 08:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 4C7334EB9C134 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:28:26 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML523-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.9.45]) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:28:24 +0100 From: "Yutianpeng (Tim)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 Thread-Index: AdQ/rOk2O9B1aMu7RrSnvHTptxxrnQ== Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 15:28:24 +0000 Message-ID: <35FF0D51C8DAB54B95B0426331F984FF520433B2@lhreml523-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.126.98] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_35FF0D51C8DAB54B95B0426331F984FF520433B2lhreml523mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Comments on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 15:28:32 -0000 --_000_35FF0D51C8DAB54B95B0426331F984FF520433B2lhreml523mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Some comments as below: ------------------------------ There is one point missing in the draft so far I think: what if the subscri= ber is the initiator of the configuration changes? In this case, the subscriber is aware of configuration changes initiated by= itself without relying on the push mechanism. Introducing push mechanism w= ill dramatically impact the performance of the system in this case. My suggestion is: 3.3. On-Change Considerations 5. If the resulting patch record is non-empty, and it contains the reco= rds not initiated by the subscriber, select these records and send to corre= sponding subscriber. We can have further discussion on this to make it optional instead of manda= tory. ----------------------------- Both "subscriber" and "receiver" are used, bit confusing sometimes. Shall w= e only use "subscriber" ------------------------ 3.11.1. Robustness and reliability Note: It is perfectly acceptable to have a series of "push-change- update" notifications (and even "push update" notifications) serially queued at the transport layer awaiting transmission. It is not required to merge pending update records. I.e., the dampening period applies to update record creation, not transmission. My suggestion is: The publisher should increase dampening period automatically in case the me= ssage queue reaches a limit. This is to avoid notifications lost due to queue limit in case subscriber i= s busy or temporarily unreachable. ----------------------------- It would be appreciated if suggestions can be given on how push shall be us= ed on running, startup and candidate datastores ------------------------------- Regards, Tim --_000_35FF0D51C8DAB54B95B0426331F984FF520433B2lhreml523mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Some comments as be= low:

 

-------------------= -----------

There is one point = missing in the draft so far I think: what if the subscriber is the initiato= r of the configuration changes?

In this case, the s= ubscriber is aware of configuration changes initiated by itself without rel= ying on the push mechanism. Introducing push mechanism will dramatically im= pact the performance of the system in this case.

My suggestion is: <= o:p>

3.3.  On-Chang= e Considerations

   5.&nbs= p; If the resulting patch record is non-empty, and it contains the records = not initiated by the subscriber, select these records and send to correspon= ding subscriber.

We can have further= discussion on this to make it optional instead of mandatory.

 

-------------------= ----------

Both “subscri= ber” and “receiver” are used, bit confusing sometimes. Sh= all we only use “subscriber”

 

-------------------= -----

3.11.1.  Robus= tness and reliability

   Note: = It is perfectly acceptable to have a series of "push-change-

   update= " notifications (and even "push update" notifications) seria= lly

   queued= at the transport layer awaiting transmission.  It is not

   requir= ed to merge pending update records.  I.e., the dampening period

   applie= s to update record creation, not transmission.

My suggestion is: <= o:p>

The publisher shoul= d increase dampening period automatically in case the message queue reaches= a limit.

This is to avoid no= tifications lost due to queue limit in case subscriber is busy or temporari= ly unreachable.

 

-------------------= ----------

It would be appreci= ated if suggestions can be given on how push shall be used on running, star= tup and candidate datastores

 

-------------------= ------------

 

Regards,=

Tim

--_000_35FF0D51C8DAB54B95B0426331F984FF520433B2lhreml523mbschi_-- From nobody Wed Aug 29 09:34:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7492130DD9 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:34:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X705trn3q0LL for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A80A130DDE for ; 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Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:34:02 -0700 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.109.202) by DM6PR05MB4218.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.72.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1101.7; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:33:59 +0000 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::544a:dd4d:9524:9e6d]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::544a:dd4d:9524:9e6d%5]) with mapi id 15.20.1122.000; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:33:59 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: David Mandelberg , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-23.txt Thread-Index: AQHUOKo6B7yG1ZEWJ0K6wOs+4nCg0aTIogAAgAiPHoCAAm96AIACUwyAgADEJAA= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:33:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <153478564565.23119.9766582310559048569@ietfa.amsl.com> <0DA47346-64BE-4FD1-888F-F0E47688C14F@juniper.net> <4be03677-70b8-98a2-49b3-1be4abd5da7e@mandelberg.org> <6FF89601-E95F-4296-B6E5-80438DF03543@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.14] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:43:32 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.188]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.173]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 10:43:22 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: "Yutianpeng (Tim)" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 Thread-Index: AdQ/rOk2O9B1aMu7RrSnvHTptxxrnQAD9+jQ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:43:22 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B6D7@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <35FF0D51C8DAB54B95B0426331F984FF520433B2@lhreml523-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <35FF0D51C8DAB54B95B0426331F984FF520433B2@lhreml523-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.193.35.88] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B6D7sjceml521mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Comments on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:43:39 -0000 --_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B6D7sjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Tim, replies below, Thanks --- Alex From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yutianpeng (Ti= m) Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 8:28 AM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: [Netconf] Comments on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18 Hi, Some comments as below: ------------------------------ There is one point missing in the draft so far I think: what if the subscri= ber is the initiator of the configuration changes? In this case, the subscriber is aware of configuration changes initiated by= itself without relying on the push mechanism. Introducing push mechanism w= ill dramatically impact the performance of the system in this case. My suggestion is: 3.3. On-Change Considerations 5. If the resulting patch record is non-empty, and it contains the reco= rds not initiated by the subscriber, select these records and send to corre= sponding subscriber. We can have further discussion on this to make it optional instead of manda= tory. Regarding automatic filtering of updates that concern configuration which w= as initiated by the same entity that has the role of receiver: This would = add significant complexity and very little actual gain. For one, it is up = to the subscriber to decide what information is of interest, and the receiv= er will be able to easily apply logic to differentiate updates concerning c= hanges that it had initiated itself versus other changes. Perhaps more imp= ortantly, there may be value to the receiver in receiving those updates as = an additional validation/verification mechanism; who are we to second-guess= the intention of the subscriber? By filtering out some updates but not ot= hers, it will also be very hard to use the update records as a history log = or "audit trail", which would require combining responses to configuration = change / edit requests and update records. In short, I do not think that this is a feature that should be introduced. = If it turns out this is of importance to someone after all, they are free = to augment the model with a new filter type whose effect will be to ignore = certain updates. ----------------------------- Both "subscriber" and "receiver" are used, bit confusing sometimes. Shall w= e only use "subscriber" Subscriber and receiver are different roles. The subscriber is the entity = that initiates the subscription, the receiver is the recipient entity for t= he updates. Of course, both may be the same system. ------------------------ 3.11.1. Robustness and reliability Note: It is perfectly acceptable to have a series of "push-change- update" notifications (and even "push update" notifications) serially queued at the transport layer awaiting transmission. It is not required to merge pending update records. I.e., the dampening period applies to update record creation, not transmission. My suggestion is: The publisher should increase dampening period automatically in case the me= ssage queue reaches a limit. This is to avoid notifications lost due to queue limit in case subscriber i= s busy or temporarily unreachable. Again, this is an additional feature that we should not introduce at this p= oint. If one were to introduce it, there would be various additional ramif= ications, such as increased delay to let receivers know that some informati= on has changed/ updates have happened, which may in many cases not be accep= table (with the dampening period being gated by the longest acceptable dela= y in reporting an update). In addition, receivers would need to be informe= d of changing dampening periods. Any benefits are not worth the additional= complexity (not just for publishers, but for receivers) IMHO. ----------------------------- It would be appreciated if suggestions can be given on how push shall be us= ed on running, startup and candidate datastores This is part of the model and specified at configuration respectively estab= lishment of the subscription. Defined in grouping datastore-criteria, whic= h includes leaf datastore { type identityref { base ds:datastore; } mandatory true; description "Datastore from which to retrieve data."; } ------------------------------- Regards, Tim --_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B6D7sjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello= Tim,

=  

repli= es below, <ALEX>

=  

Thank= s

--- A= lex

=  

From: = Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yutianpeng (Tim)
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 8:28 AM
To: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: [Netconf] Comments on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-18<= /o:p>

 =

Hi,

Some comments as be= low:

 

-------------------= -----------

There is one point = missing in the draft so far I think: what if the subscriber is the initiato= r of the configuration changes?

In this case, the s= ubscriber is aware of configuration changes initiated by itself without rel= ying on the push mechanism. Introducing push mechanism will dramatically im= pact the performance of the system in this case.

My suggestion is: <= o:p>

3.3.  On-Chang= e Considerations

   5.&nbs= p; If the resulting patch record is non-empty, and it contains the records = not initiated by the subscriber, select these records and send to correspon= ding subscriber.

We can have further= discussion on this to make it optional instead of mandatory.

=  

<A= LEX>

Regar= ding automatic filtering of updates that concern configuration which was in= itiated by the same entity that has the role of receiver:  This would = add significant complexity and very little actual gain.  For one, it is up to the subscriber to decide what info= rmation is of interest, and the receiver will be able to easily apply logic= to differentiate updates concerning changes that it had initiated itself v= ersus other changes.  Perhaps more importantly, there may be value to the receiver in receiving those updates as an additi= onal validation/verification mechanism; who are we to second-guess the inte= ntion of the subscriber?  By filtering out some updates but not others= , it will also be very hard to use the update records as a history log or “audit trail”, which would = require combining responses to configuration change / edit requests and upd= ate records. 

=  

In sh= ort, I do not think that this is a feature that should be introduced. = If it turns out this is of importance to someone after all, they are free = to augment the model with a new filter type whose effect will be to ignore certain updates.  

</= ALEX>

=  

-------------------= ----------

Both “subscri= ber” and “receiver” are used, bit confusing sometimes. Sh= all we only use “subscriber”

=  

<A= LEX>

Subsc= riber and receiver are different roles.  The subscriber is the entity = that initiates the subscription, the receiver is the recipient entity for t= he updates.  Of course, both may be the same system.  

</= ALEX>

=  

-------------------= -----

3.11.1.  Robus= tness and reliability

   Note: = It is perfectly acceptable to have a series of "push-change-

   update= " notifications (and even "push update" notifications) seria= lly

   queued= at the transport layer awaiting transmission.  It is not

   requir= ed to merge pending update records.  I.e., the dampening period

   applie= s to update record creation, not transmission.

My suggestion is: <= o:p>

The publisher shoul= d increase dampening period automatically in case the message queue reaches= a limit.

This is to avoid no= tifications lost due to queue limit in case subscriber is busy or temporari= ly unreachable.

=  

<A= LEX>

Again= , this is an additional feature that we should not introduce at this point.=   If one were to introduce it, there would be various additional ramif= ications, such as increased delay to let receivers know that some information has changed/ updates have happened, w= hich may in many cases not be acceptable (with the dampening period being g= ated by the longest acceptable delay in reporting an update).  In addi= tion, receivers would need to be informed of changing dampening periods.  Any benefits are not worth the additi= onal complexity (not just for publishers, but for receivers) IMHO. 

</= ALEX>

=  

=  

-------------------= ----------

It would be appreci= ated if suggestions can be given on how push shall be used on running, star= tup and candidate datastores

=  

<A= LEX>

This is part of the model and specified at configuratio=
n respectively establishment of the subscription.  Defined in grouping=
 datastore-criteria, which includes
    &=
nbsp; leaf datastore {
       type =
identityref {
       =
  base ds:datastore;
       }
       manda=
tory true;
       descr=
iption
       =
  "Datastore from which to retrieve data.";
    }

=
 


</=
ALEX>


-------------------=
------------


 


Regards,=



Tim
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-0500 From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" To: Alexander Clemm , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Last Call on yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUM/QwQhG4fwKiUkSHvZFCs3Awe6TUk3QAgAFPPcCAAX1kgA== Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 21:02:52 +0000 Message-ID: <40237A35-5D3F-46A2-AD0E-33EFA681A06C@cisco.com> References: <645E45E1-EE1F-4E06-9B38-DE457003AC4C@cisco.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B309@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B309@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.b.0.180311 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.253.253] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8D8728CE190C064E9546BC19E1DADC49@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.15, 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definitions=2018-08-29_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808290233 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] ietf-ssh-client@2018-06-04, issues with the grouping X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 23:58:54 -0000 --_000_F481320892344A7782C88BA630C80018junipernet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgQmFsYXpzLCBBbGwsDQoNCkkgbWFkZSB0aGUgY2hhbmdlIGluIG15IGxvY2FsIGNvcHksIGJ1 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RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jAFzcZepvRuC for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DC15130DC8 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:40:11 -0700 (PDT) X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=cNiiiRWN c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=OXtaa+9CFT7WVSERtyqzJw==:117 a=OXtaa+9CFT7WVSERtyqzJw==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=NTnny0joGdQA:10 a=dapMudl6Dx4A:10 a=bmmO2AaSJ7QA:10 a=BTUBnpS-AAAA:8 a=4CdcsxU8P19EN4flGOgA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=pblkFgjdBCuYZ9-HdJ6i:22 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: ZHNlb21uQHJjbi5jb20= Authentication-Results: smtp03.rcn.cmh.synacor.com header.from=david+work@mandelberg.org; sender-id=neutral Authentication-Results: smtp03.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.mail=david+work@mandelberg.org; spf=neutral; sender-id=neutral Authentication-Results: smtp03.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.user=dseomn@rcn.com; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received-SPF: neutral (smtp03.rcn.cmh.synacor.com: 209.6.43.168 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of mandelberg.org) Received: from [209.6.43.168] ([209.6.43.168:34932] helo=uriel.mandelberg.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) id 12/06-11895-9EC378B5; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 20:40:09 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.152] (DD-WRT [192.168.1.1]) by uriel.mandelberg.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A51691C6093; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 20:40:08 -0400 (EDT) To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <153478564565.23119.9766582310559048569@ietfa.amsl.com> <0DA47346-64BE-4FD1-888F-F0E47688C14F@juniper.net> <4be03677-70b8-98a2-49b3-1be4abd5da7e@mandelberg.org> <6FF89601-E95F-4296-B6E5-80438DF03543@juniper.net> From: David Mandelberg Message-ID: <0a7fcdb4-38b2-6e17-2e6f-21b8f199e433@mandelberg.org> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 20:40:06 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-23.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 00:40:14 -0000 On 08/29/2018 12:33 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi David, > >> I think it's fine if boot images and logs are retained, and allowing for >> variation in how the device resets itself makes sense. I think the MUST >> NOT covers only half of what shouldn't be retained though. What do you >> think of this? (Feel free to change my wording, especially if you can >> think of something less vague than "behave as if".) >> >> "Some state MAY be retained from the bootstrapping process (e.g., updated >> boot image, logs, remnants from a script, etc.). However, the retained >> state MUST NOT hinder the ability for the device to continue the >> bootstrapping sequence (i.e., process onboarding information from >> another bootstrap server), and MUST NOT enable the device to behave as >> if it were successfully configured." > > Hmmm, how about we say that the remnants must be "inactive" like this? > > """ > Some state MAY be retained from the bootstrapping process (e.g., updated > boot image, logs, remnants from a script, etc.). However, the retained > state MUST NOT be active in any way (e.g., no new configuration or running > of software), and MUST NOT hinder the ability for the device to continue > the bootstrapping sequence (i.e., process onboarding information from > another bootstrap server). > """ I like that more than what I wrote! > > Kent > -- https://david.mandelberg.org/ From nobody Wed Aug 29 18:09:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53FAE130ED4 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:09:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UVvFqCxUoNxE for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AFBA130EC5 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6A3A6DD7C881D for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 02:09:45 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 02:09:46 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.188]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.173]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:09:42 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "evoit@cisco.com" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 Thread-Index: AQHUNImzU9I4weZMB0iH1L0LVTTudKTT9lwAgAFivoCAAJuIoIABSioAgABMJJA= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 01:09:42 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B91A@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB59E44@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> <20180828.100917.925597025431754922.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B32B@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> <20180829.150740.1323981906990283714.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20180829.150740.1323981906990283714.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.193.35.88] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 01:09:52 -0000 Hi Martin, thank you for your new suggestion - I will go through the occurrences of "= push update" to clean up / clarify which ones refer to update record (respe= ctively update) versus the notification. =20 Regarding your previous comments (or replies to my responses to your commen= ts), indeed I did not add responses to all replies of yours and in the cour= se missed two things; my apologies; please see Thanks --- Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Bjorklund [mailto:mbj@tail-f.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:08 AM > To: Alexander Clemm > Cc: netconf@ietf.org; evoit@cisco.com > Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 >=20 > Alexander Clemm wrote: > > Hi Martin, > > > > thank you for your replies! One inline reply, >=20 > Ok. What about my other comments? I see that some of them still applies= to > -18 (the ones you didn't reply to below). >=20 > Also, looking at the diff for 17-18, I found a new issue: >=20 >=20 > o Section 3 >=20 > Subscriptions specify when notification messages (also referred to as > "push updates") should be sent and what data to include in update > records. >=20 >=20 > I accept that you use "update record" and "update" for the same > thing (namely "A representation of one or more datastore node > updates."). >=20 > But what is a "push update"? From the quoted text, it seems to be > the *notifican message* rather than the "update record". But when > the term "push update" is used, it seems to be a third name for > "update record". (For example in 3.9: "A publisher MUST ensure > that no non-authorized data is included in push updates.") >=20 > There is also the specific "push-update" notification (one form of > "update record", the other being "push-change-update", I assume). >=20 > In order to avoid confusion, I suggest that you change the > occurances of "push update" to simply "update" or "update record" > (or "push-update" notification, when/if that is referred to). >=20 >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > Thanks > > --- Alex > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Martin Bjorklund [mailto:mbj@tail-f.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 1:09 AM > > > To: Alexander Clemm > > > Cc: netconf@ietf.org; evoit@cisco.com > > > Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Thanks for addressing my comments. Some replies inline. > > > > > > > > > Alexander Clemm wrote: > > > > Hi Martin, > > > > > > > > thank you for your comments. > > > > > > > > Please see my responses inline, > > > > > > > > (Apologies for the sluggish response; I have been travelling) > > > > > > > > --- Alex > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > > > > Martin Bjorklund > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 4:18 AM > > > > > To: netconf@ietf.org > > > > > Subject: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > This message starts a Last Call on draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push= -17: > > > > > > > > > > I have reviewed this document, and I think it is almost ready. > > > > > Here are my > > > > > comments: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.3 > > > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > > > Putting it all together, following is the conceptual process f= or > > > > > creating an push-change-update notification: > > > > > > > > > > Up until this point, the text has just talked about "update > > > > > record". Here it says "an push-change-update notification". > > > > > > > > > > Maybe simply s/an push-change-update notification/an update > record/? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The process itself talk also about sending the record to > > > > the receiver. How about refining it to say " following is the > > > > conceptual process for > > > > creating a update record as part of an on-change subscription:"? > > > > > > > > > > Ok. (s/a update/an update/) > > > OK, closed > > > > > o 3.4 > > > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > > > the solution that is defined in this document mandates that a > > > > > publisher notifies receivers immediately and reliably whenever= it > > > > > encounters a situation in which it is unable to keep the terms= of the > > > > > subscription, and provides the publisher with the option to su= spend > > > > > the subscription in such a case. > > > > > > > > > > I think it would help if you could put a forward reference to t= he > > > > > mechanism that exists to do this immediate notification. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding the following forward reference: > > > > "This is described further in Section 3.11.1." > > > > > > Ok. > > > OK, closed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.5.2 > > > > > > > > > > The text describes incorrect usage of the "insert" operation; i= t is > > > > > only applicable to user ordered lists. Also, there is no reaso= n for > > > > > special handling of deletion of list entries. (also use the te= rm > > > > > "list entry" rather than "element"). Hence, I suggest: > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value = of a > > > > > datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" opera= tion > > > > > (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new data= store > > > > > node was created (other than an element in a list), a publishe= r will > > > > > indicate a "create" operation in the patch. When a datastore = node > > > > > was deleted (other than an element in a list), the publisher > > > > > indicates this by a "delete". When a new list element was cre= ated or > > > > > removed, the publisher indicates it by an "insert" or "remove"= , > > > > > respectively. > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > A publisher will indicate a change to the effect that a value = of a > > > > > datstore node has been updated by indicating a "replace" opera= tion > > > > > (applied to the datastore node) in the patch. When a new data= store > > > > > node was created (other than an entry in a user ordered list),= a > > > > > publisher will indicate a "create" operation in the patch. Wh= en a > > > > > datastore node was deleted, the publisher indicates this by a > > > > > "delete". When a new entry in a user ordered list was created= , the > > > > > publisher indicates this by an "insert" operation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, changed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.5.2 > > > > > > > > > > In the last paragraph, s/"merge"/"replace"/ > > > > > since the paragraph before just describes "replace", not "merge= ". > > > > > > > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > Shouldn't the text also mention the operation "move" for user > > > > > ordered lists? > > > > > > > > > Thank you. Added the following text: " When an entry in a > > > > user-ordered list was moved, the publisher indicates this by a "mov= e" > > > > operation. " > > > > > > Ok. OK, closed > > > > > > > > o 3.6 > > > > > > > > > > s/Xpath/XPath/ > > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.7 > > > > > > > > > > The examples are not quite correct, and I suggest they are modi= fied > > > > > to not include deprecated nodes: > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > > > 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z > > > > > > > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > > > > > > interfaces"> > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > > > 2017-10-25T08:00:11.22Z > > > > > > > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > > > 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang- > > > > > push"> > > > > > 89 > > > > > > > > > > patch"> > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > > > edit1 > > > > > merge > > > > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces-state > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:notification:1.0"> > > > > > 2017-10-25T08:22:33.44Z > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang- > > > > > push"> > > > > > 89 > > > > > > > > > > patch"> > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > > > edit1 > > > > > replace > > > > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces > > > > > > > > > > interfaces"> > > > > > > > > > > eth0 > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (uses the "replace" operation, fixed xml namespace, don't use > > > > > interfaces-state) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. Updated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.8 > > > > > > > > > > s/establish-subscription-datasore-error-info/ > > > > > establish-subscription-datastore-error-info/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fixed, thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.8 > > > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > > > In the case of a rejected request for an establishment of a da= tastore > > > > > subscription, the hints MUST be transported within a yang-data > > > > > "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" container > > > > > > > > > > Do you mean that *if* there are hints, they MUST be sent within= this > > > > > container, or you mean that on failure, this container MUST be = sent? > > > > > > > > > > (ditto for modify-subscription-datastore-error-info) > > > > > > > > > > (it seems 4.4.1 says that hints SHOULD be included, but Appendi= x A > > > > > that they MUST be included) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Changing "MUST" to "SHOULD". And yes, *if* there are > > > > hints. I don't think a change to Appendix A, is needed; it does > > > > not actually state that they must be included. (It says the > > > > yang-data with the hint MUST be sent if hints are included.) > > > > > > So then it seems that this text (3.8) says that if there are hints, > > > they SHOULD be transported witin the "establish-subscription-datastor= e- > error-info" > > > container, but the appendix says that if there are hints they MUST > > > be sent within the "establish-subscription-datastore-error-info" > container. > > > > > > I would prefer to have the normative language in just one place > > > (probably not in the appendix). But I also think that the current > > > text in the appendix is more clear, since it says that *if* there > > > are hints, they MUST be transported... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > > > > > > > s/RFC8342/RFC8341/ > > > > > s/rfc6536bis/RFC8341/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > > > > > > > It is difficult to relate Figure 5 to the text. Should it be = moved > > > > > to right after the first paragraph? I think it would be useful= to > > > > > add a reference from the text that examplains the "updated acce= ss > > > > > control rules" to the figure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I moved the paragraph preceding Figure 5, as well as Figure > > > > 5 itself, further to the top (behind the first paragraph). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, s/update message/update record/ in the figure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > > > A publisher MAY choose reject an establish-subscription reques= t > which > > > > > selects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a > > > > > publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or > suspend a > > > > > configured receiver when the authorization privileges of a rec= eiver > > > > > change, or the access controls for subscribed objects change. = Such a > > > > > capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support a > > > > > continuous, and total filtering of an entire subscription's co= ntent. > > > > > > > > > > In these cases above, the error identity "unchanging-selection= " > > > > > SHOULD be returned. > > > > > > > > > > "the cases above" refers to (i) terminating a dynamic subscript= ion, > > > > > or (ii) suspend a configured receiver. What does it mean to > > > > > "return" an error identity when a subscription is terminated, o= r > > > > > suspended? > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you meant that the error identity "unchanging-selection" > > > > > SHOULD be sent in an "subscription-terminated" notification or > > > > > "subscription-suspended" notification, respectively. > > > > > > > > > > If so, the "unchanging-selection" identity should probably also > > > > > derive from "sn:subscription-suspended-reason". > > > > > > > > > > > > > Changed this section as follows: > > > > "A publisher MAY choose to reject an establish-subscription > > > > request which selects non-existent or access-protected data. In > > > > addition, a publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic > > > > subscription or suspend a configured receiver when the > > > > authorization privileges of a receiver change, or the access > > > > controls for subscribed objects change. As reason, the error ident= ity > "unchanging-selection" SHOULD be returned. > > > > Such a capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support > > > > continuous and total filtering of a subscription's content for > > > > every update record. It also reduces the possibility of leakage > > > > of access-controlled objects." > > > > > > > > > > This new text doesn't address my concern, which is the usage of the > > > term "return". How can a server "return" anything when a > > > subscription is terminated? > > > Ah, ok, I overlooked this one. So, when rejecting, we can return = the error identity. When the subscription is terminated, a notification "s= ubscription-terminated" is sent (per the Subscribed Notifications draft) th= at can include ungaging-selection as its reason. I will make this explicit = in -19. =20 > > > > > > > On a separate note, the next paragraph states: "If read > > > > access into previously accessible nodes has been lost due to a > > > > receiver permissions change, this SHOULD be reported as a patch > "delete" > > > > operation for on-change subscriptions. If not capable of handling > > > > such receiver permission changes with such a "delete", publisher > > > > implementations MUST force dynamic subscription re-establishment > > > > or configured subscription re-initialization so that appropriate > > > > filtering is installed." > > > > > > > > I am wondering if one should actually report the > > > > "delete"-operation here. This is somewhat inaccurate, as the > > > > object may not have been actually deleted, only its access has > > > > been revoked. I am leaving this as is for now, but am wondering > > > > if we should change this instead as > > > > follows: > > > > " If read access into previously accessible nodes has been lost > > > > due to a receiver permissions change, publisher implementations > > > > MUST force dynamic subscription re-establishment or configured > > > > subscription re-initialization so that appropriate filtering is ins= talled." > > > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > Ok with me. > > > OK, closed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.11.1 > > > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > > > It is not > > > > > required to merge pending update messages. > > > > > > > > > > This can be read as indicating that a server MAY merge pending > > > > > update messages. I assume that it should say that pending upda= te > > > > > messages MUST NOT be merged. > > > > > > > > Hmm. I am not sure I agree. The server is not required to > > > > merge pending update messages - i.e. can send multiple messages > > > > each with a separate update record. However, there is no reason > > > > to preclude that they could be combined. So, I don't think an > > > > update is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > So you say that the text means that the server MAY merge pending > > > update messages in this case? If so, I think you should update the > > > text so that this is clear. > > > OK, how about saying "The server MAY (but does not have to) merge p= ending update messages". > > > > > > > > Also, s/update message/update record/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.2 > > > > > > > > > > s/an "excluded-change" flag/an "excluded-change" parameter/ > > > > > > > > > > (it is more than just a flag...) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Updated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.3.2 > > > > > > > > > > The second paragraph is a bit confusing. I suggest to simplify= : > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > A "subscription-id" MUST be transported along with the subscri= bed > > > > > contents. An [RFC5277] Section 4 one-way notification MAY be > used > > > > > for encoding updates. Where it is, the relevant "subscription= -id" > > > > > MUST be encoded as the first element within each "push-update" > or > > > > > "push-change-update". This allows a receiver to differentiate= which > > > > > subscription resulted in a particular push. > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > A "subscription-id" is transported along with the subscribed > > > > > contents. This allows a receiver to differentiate which > > > > > subscription resulted in a particular push. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Updated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.1 > > > > > > > > > > The examples are (still) wrong. > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notif= ications" > > > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > > > > > > datastores"> > > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0" > > > > > select=3D"/ex:foo"/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notif= ications" > > > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > > > datastores"> > > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample- > > > > > data/1.0"> > > > > > /ex:foo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed- > notifications"> > > > > > ok > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed- > notifications"> > > > > > 52 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed- > notifications"> > > > > > 52 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notific= ations" > > > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > > > > /ex:foo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notific= ations" > > > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > > > > /ex:foo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Updated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.1 > > > > > > > > > > REMOVE: > > > > > > > > > > o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that correspo= nds to > > > > > an identity with a base of "establish-subscription-error". > > > > > > > > > > (this app-tag thing was removed from subscribed-notifications) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And modify the example accordingly: > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > > > > application > > > > > operation-failed > > > > > error > > > > > > > > > > on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed- > notifications"> > > > > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed- > notifications"> > > > > > > > > > > application > > > > > operation-failed > > > > > error > > > > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yp:on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think there are some mismatches in the NEW as indicated > > > > above (no error-info closing bracket, xmln:yp without container) - > > > > updated as follows (NEW2): > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" > > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notificat= ions"> > > > > > > > > application > > > > operation-failed > > > > error > > > > /yp:periodic/yp:period > > > > > > > > > > > > yp:on-change-unsupported > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.2 > > > > > > > > > > The example is wrong: > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifica= tions" > > > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > > > > netconf:type=3D"xpath" xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample= - > > > data/1.0"> > > > > > /ex:bar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 250 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:netconf=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > > > > > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-subscribed-notifica= tions" > > > > > xmlns:yp=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-push"> > > > > > 1011 > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > > > > > ds:operational > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:ex=3D"http://example.com/sample-data/1.0"> > > > > > /ex:bar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 250 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.2 > > > > > > > > > > REMOVE: > > > > > > > > > > o "error-app-tag" with the value being a string that correspo= nds to > > > > > an identity with a base of "modify-subscription-error". > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > > > > > > > s/YANG 1.0/YANG 1/ > > > > > > > > > > (the version is "1", not "1.0") > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you remove the sentence: > > > > > > > > > > The > > > > > "/modules-state/module-set-id" leaf in the "ietf-yang-library" > module > > > > > can be used to cache the YANG library information. > > > > > > > > > > This is chnaged with yang-library-bis, and the sentence is not > > > > > really needed in this draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agreed, removed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.4.5 > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand what the third paragraph is supposed to tell= me. > > > > > Can it be removed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greatly simplified and rephrased it as follows: > > > > " The set of modules, revisions, features, and deviations can > > > > change at run-time (if supported by the publisher implementation). > > > > For this purpose, the YANG library provides a simple "yang-library- > change" > > > > notification that informs the subscriber that the library has chang= ed. > > > > In this case, a subscription may need to be updated to take the > > > > updates into account. The receiver may also need to be informed > > > > of module changes in order to process updates regarding datastore > > > > nodes from changed modules correctly." > > > > > > > > > > Ok. > > > OK, closed > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > > > In subscribed-notifications, the subscription identifier leaf i= s > > > > > called "identifier", in this model it is called "subscription-i= d" > > > > > and "identifier". > > > > > > > > > > I think the two models should use the same term. Either change= this > > > > > model, or subscribed notifications. Remember to update the > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what you refer to is the way that subscriptions are > > > > identified in push update notifications. In all other places, we > > > > consistently use subscription-id as the type, and "identifier" to > > > > identify a subscription (YANG-Push does not introduce a new leaf, > > > > but imports yp:identifier). > > > > > > > > Personally I find the term "identifier" a bit generic. That said, > > > > if you want to make it consistent, we should stick with what we > > > > have in subscribed notifications (to keep the impact low). I am > > > > not really convinced it is a change for the better, but I am > > > > updating the model to use "identifier" in the push update > > > > notifications (push-update and > > > > push-change-update) to identify subscriptions. Examples have been > > > > updated accordingly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. (I agree that "subscription-id" is more descriptive...) > > > OK, closed > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > > > Is it ok to do: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operational > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Probably not, so I suggest making this illegal in the model: > > > > > > > > > > augment "/sn:establish-subscription/sn:input" { > > > > > when "sn:target/yp:datastore"; // NEW statement > > > > > > > > > > description > > > > > "This augmentation adds additional subscription parameters = that > > > > > apply specifically to datastore updates to RPC input."; > > > > > uses update-policy; > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > and ditto for all of: > > > > > > > > > > augment "/sn:modify-subscription/sn:input" { > > > > > augment "/sn:subscription-started" { > > > > > augment "/sn:subscription-modified" { > > > > > augment "/sn:subscriptions/sn:subscription" { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and then modify update-policy-modifiable to make the update- > trigger > > > > > choice mandatory: > > > > > > > > > > grouping update-policy-modifiable { > > > > > description > > > > > "This grouping describes the datastore specific subscriptio= n > > > > > conditions that can be changed during the lifetime of the > > > > > subscription."; > > > > > choice update-trigger { > > > > > mandatory true; // NEW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure I understand this comment fully. Can you > > > > please clarify? You should be able to subscribe to updates to > . > > > > I don't think this should be precluded. > > > > I guess you are referring to the fact that you would like to make > > > > update-trigger mandatory? > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > Arguably, the server should always be able to reject a request it > > > > cannot fulfill, which may include underspecification. > > > > > > Sure, but if a parameter is mandatory it is better to mark it as > > > such instead of letting implementors figuring this out on their own. > > > > > > > Let me add your suggested augmentation to the inputs for > > > > establish-subscription and modify-subscription. I don't think > > > > this would be needed for a notification, which is generated by the > > > > server anyway. Let me also add the mandatory statement to the > > > > grouping; however, I am not sure this is actually legal, as the > > > > grouping will be used in an augmentation. (Can an augmentation > contain a "mandatory" > > > > item?) > > > > > > Yes, in YANG 1.1, and it was added specifically for use cases like > > > this, where the mandatory node are "protected" by a "when" > > > expression. > > > > > > OK, incorporated your suggestions, closed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > > > I have made this comment before. The anydata node > > > > > "datastore-changes" should be a container that uses the groupin= g > > > > > "yang-patch". It is more precise than using anydata and in tex= t > > > > > explain that the opaque anydata must be yang patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > > > identity result-too-big { > > > > > > > > > > identity synchronization-size { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do we need both these errors? Can't we just have a single = one, > > > > > maybe "update-too-big"? > > > > > > > > > > (I think that *result-too-big* is a misnomer. If the result of= an > > > > > rpc is too big, the standard error-tag "too-big" should be > > > > > used.) > > > > > > > > Renamed "result-too-big" to "update-too-big". However, > > > > leaving the synchronization-size identity. That one would be used > > > > for resynch only. While strictly speaking it may be possible to > > > > eliminate, it probably doesn't hurt either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > > > Since 3.5.2 specifies that a subset of all operations from YANG > > > > > patch to be used in push update records, shouldn't the typedef > > > > > change-type only include this subset? > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, why should a client be able to exclude "merge", when > > > > > "merge" can never be included? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure what you would like me to change? remove "merge" > > > from > > > > the enum? > > > > > > > > > > Yes, my suggestion is to remove "merge" and "remove". > > > > > > > ok > > > > > > > o 9.2 > > > > > > > > > > The reference [bergstra2014] is not used and can be removed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Removed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o Comment from an earlier review: > > > > > > > > > > (the document also uses the term "data object" and "datastore > > > > > object", these should be fixed) > > > > > > > > > > These should both be changed to "datastore node" or "object". > > > > > > > > > > > > > Changed the last remaining instances > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > From nobody Wed Aug 29 23:10:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73F89130E37 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 23:10:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E_mlvmPxrbuh for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 23:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 844BE130EE6 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 23:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0D86F1AE0389; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:10:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:10:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180830.081021.1805437789668143807.mbj@tail-f.com> To: alexander.clemm@huawei.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org, evoit@cisco.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B91A@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B32B@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> <20180829.150740.1323981906990283714.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB5B91A@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj's WGLC review of yang-push-17 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 06:10:28 -0000 Hi, Alexander Clemm wrote: > Hi Martin, > > thank you for your new suggestion - I will go through the occurrences > of "push update" to clean up / clarify which ones refer to update > record (respectively update) versus the notification. Ok. > Regarding your previous comments (or replies to my responses to your > comments), indeed I did not add responses to all replies of yours and > in the course missed two things; my apologies; please see I have trimmed the discussion to just the open issues: > > > > > > o 3.9 > > > > > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > > > > > A publisher MAY choose reject an establish-subscription request > > which > > > > > > selects non-existent or access-protected data. In addition, a > > > > > > publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic subscription or > > suspend a > > > > > > configured receiver when the authorization privileges of a > > > > > > receiver > > > > > > change, or the access controls for subscribed objects change. > > > > > > Such a > > > > > > capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support a > > > > > > continuous, and total filtering of an entire subscription's > > > > > > content. > > > > > > > > > > > > In these cases above, the error identity "unchanging-selection" > > > > > > SHOULD be returned. > > > > > > > > > > > > "the cases above" refers to (i) terminating a dynamic subscription, > > > > > > or (ii) suspend a configured receiver. What does it mean to > > > > > > "return" an error identity when a subscription is terminated, or > > > > > > suspended? > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you meant that the error identity "unchanging-selection" > > > > > > SHOULD be sent in an "subscription-terminated" notification or > > > > > > "subscription-suspended" notification, respectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > If so, the "unchanging-selection" identity should probably also > > > > > > derive from "sn:subscription-suspended-reason". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Changed this section as follows: > > > > > "A publisher MAY choose to reject an establish-subscription > > > > > request which selects non-existent or access-protected data. In > > > > > addition, a publisher MAY choose to terminate a dynamic > > > > > subscription or suspend a configured receiver when the > > > > > authorization privileges of a receiver change, or the access > > > > > controls for subscribed objects change. As reason, the error identity > > "unchanging-selection" SHOULD be returned. > > > > > Such a capability enables the publisher to avoid having to support > > > > > continuous and total filtering of a subscription's content for > > > > > every update record. It also reduces the possibility of leakage > > > > > of access-controlled objects." > > > > > > > > > > > > > This new text doesn't address my concern, which is the usage of the > > > > term "return". How can a server "return" anything when a > > > > subscription is terminated? > > > > > > Ah, ok, I overlooked this one. So, when rejecting, we can > return the error identity. When the subscription is terminated, a > notification "subscription-terminated" is sent (per the Subscribed > Notifications draft) that can include ungaging-selection as its > reason. I will make this explicit in -19. > Good. > > > > > > o 3.11.1 > > > > > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not > > > > > > required to merge pending update messages. > > > > > > > > > > > > This can be read as indicating that a server MAY merge pending > > > > > > update messages. I assume that it should say that pending update > > > > > > messages MUST NOT be merged. > > > > > > > > > > Hmm. I am not sure I agree. The server is not required to > > > > > merge pending update messages - i.e. can send multiple messages > > > > > each with a separate update record. However, there is no reason > > > > > to preclude that they could be combined. So, I don't think an > > > > > update is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you say that the text means that the server MAY merge pending > > > > update messages in this case? If so, I think you should update the > > > > text so that this is clear. > > > > > > OK, how about saying "The server MAY (but does not have to) > merge pending update messages". Well, the term "update message" is not defined, so it shouldn't be used. Presumably you mean "update record". But I still don't really understand how this is supposed to work. The push-code in the publisher creates an update record A and hands it over to the transport layer, where it is queued: It is perfectly acceptable to have a series of "push-change- update" notifications (and even "push update" notifications) serially queued at the transport layer awaiting transmission. Then the push-code in the publisher creates another update record B and hands it over to the transport layer. Are you saying that the transport layer code now can merge these two update records into a single record? So if record A had "create foo, delete bar" and record B had "delete foo", there would be a single record with "delete bar, delete foo"? If two records are merged, what happens to the idea of using the 'patch-id' as an indication of lost records? /martin From nobody Wed Aug 29 23:45:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9DA12D949 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 23:45:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0-wv-VKyeW_o for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 23:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C12130E2E for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 23:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A8F7F1AE0389; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:44:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:44:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180830.084455.956764479206631430.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <7A1BA8A7-76E5-4961-8DE8-8794FB97AA6C@juniper.net> <20180829.091230.1123608459682664816.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 06:45:05 -0000 Hi, Kent Watsen wrote: > > As has been mentioned before, it would have been nice if the server > > calling home had some way of informing the client of *why* it called > > home. This could possibly be done (in NETCONF) with a special > > capability: > > > > urn:ietf:...:calling-home?have-notifications > > urn:ietf:...:calling-home?by-config > > urn:ietf:...:calling-home?have-alarms > > Perhaps. We'd need a registry to enable mappings, etc. I generally > like the idea and, if this can be solved, then a lot my objection goes > away. The biggest issue is that it wouldn't work for RESTCONF. Maybe > RFC 8071 can be updated to add: > > - the server MUST (SHOULD?) implement some "ietf-call-home" module > that defines an RPC called "call-home-reason" that returns an > identifier (a base identity) that indicates the reason for the > call-home connection. > > - the client SHOULD (MUST?), as a first step, use said RPC to > determine the reason the server initiated the call-home > connection. This sounds promising, and worth thinking about more. > >> What if there are different > >> "triggers" all pointing to the same netconf-server instance and > >> all using "coap"; the server can't use the transport alone to > >> know what to push to each. It seems that the client has to send > >> an RPC of some sort in each to bind the transport to a purpose. > > > > This is related to the question of when the server can send the > > notifs, > > No, my point is that, even before that, the client needs to know > the reason for the call home connection (foo, bar, baz) and, for > each trigger, there may be a different RPC needed to get the data. > How would the client know which RPC to send to collect each type > of data? > > > > > but I think that this also can be handled w/ capabilitites > > rather than requiring an extra rpc; if the client adervtises the > > capability "urn:ietf:...:call-home-notifications", then the server can > > start to send the notifications immediately. > > In keeping with foo, bar, baz, I suppose that the client would advertise > a capability for each, and the data sent must be self-typing, such that > even a binary coap session could distinguish between a foo and a bar > being sent. > > That might work for NETCONF. I don't know what the RESTCONF equivalent > might be. Maybe a NETCONF-only solution is okay, but I'd rather seek > solutions that work for both (hence the above suggestion for an RPC). Ok. > >> All this trouble is because we want to repurpose a NC/RC call-home > >> connection, so that there is only a single TCP connection (is this > >> the goal? > > > > No, I think the goal is to let the server and clients have the same > > roles as they do in the normal case, using the same authentication and > > authorization mechanisms. > > Yes, maintaining roles is goodness, but it's not so important when > configuring "push" flows, where it's okay to let the device be the > protocol-client because it's a secondary purpose (fault-monitoring > is secondary to provisioning). But notifs can be important in provisioning work flows as well, and especially so for YP. > BTW, while I enjoy the entertaining the idea, you should know that > I don't support NC or RC based configured subscriptions (and I can > hardly think of another reason for why a device might want to call > home "on-demand"). Agreed. If there is "something else" that would cause the device to call home on demand, you can always create a notification that represents this "something else", and we're back to SN. One thing could be calling home after a reboot. > There was a message I sent when you were sailing > (bet you're missing it now where I said that we instead focus our > limited resources on defining 1) something easy (pushing XML/JSON > over a device-initiated HTTP connection, where the device is the > HTTP-client), and/or 2) something fast (pushing binary over a > device-initiated coap connection, where the device is the COAP- > client). > > > > >> why would two device-->NMS connections not be as good?). > > > > This is fine imo. > > Great. Then let's take SSH channels off the table. It difficult > to figure out, notwithstanding it muddies the "reason" for why > the device called home. E.g., it calls home for "persistent- > connection" reason but, then, in the middle of it, it opens an > SSH channel for reason=yang-push? This seems to conflate too > much. Simpler is for the device to make a new on-demand > connection, for each on-demand connection it wants to make. > The biggest downside is potentially some redundancy in the > configuration data (e.g., same SSH-level credentials configured). > > > > >> But, in my view, YP+SN is better served as a client: the publisher > >> connects and pushes content to the receiver. > > > > Do you mean that the publisher would be a NETCONF client and the > > receiver a NETCONF server? > > Yes. > > > > But see below! This should be discussed in another thread. > > > > > >> Back to the subject line, my suggestion (for this one issue) is: > >> > >> - persistent (unchanged) > >> - periodic (unchanged, keep the on-demand language) > > > > I think we have identified four possible connection types. It would > > be good to check with thee WG which of the four people think are > > useful. (probably start a fresh thread, not sure people follow > > this...?) > > > > - persistent > > yes. > > > - on-demand > > maybe, but 1) many open issues, 2) a "notifications" connection-type > augmented in might be better (more meaningful, etc.), and 3) I think > client-initiated connections are generally better suited than call-home > for YP+SN. I think that dynamic subscriptions (over a client-initiated connection or a call-home connection) are better suited than configured subscriptions. > > - periodic-with-on-demand > > I don't understand this. I'm sure your thinking that it will call home > sometimes with reason=scheduled (or whatever) and then other times with > reason=yang-push (or whatever), but what happens when the YANG-push is > suppose to happen at the same time there is already a periodic connection? > Assuming this connection-type presumes the existence of the "on-demand" > connection type, why not instead configure a dedicated on-demand > connection type? Well, this is the "periodic" that exists today. > > > - strictly-periodic > > I generally like the idea of removing the "The NETCONF/RESTCONF server/client > MAY initiate additional connections to the NETCONF client/server if needed > for reasons not described here." sentence from the various "periodic" > descriptions, but... > > I'm okay (can live with) leaving it in, from a future-proofing perspective, > more so than for anything that we plan on doing now. I agree that if we explicitly do not define configured subscriptions for NETCONF / RESTCONF, then we just need "persistent" and "strictly-periodic". In that case there is no "on-demand" use case. > >> - let the "notif" drafts, for configured subscriptions: > >> - use -client connections (recommended) > >> - use -server call-home connections (not recommended) > >> - augment in an "subscribed-notifications" call-home > >> connection type and leafref that connection-type > >> - and/or resolve what it means to point to (repurpose) a > >> persistent or periodic connection > > > > I think we should move this discussion to another thread - if/when we > > define protocol bindings for configured subscriptions. > > Sure, but I'm trying to give you a peek now so we can see how this might > play out. > > > > >> I'm unsure if this is needed. Either case, the standard call-home > >> interaction occurs, even for the unexpected "on-demand" connections > >> and, if the operator, in its config, leafref-ed a call-home connection > >> for yang-push also, then they did it on purpose. If the operator > >> wants strictly-periodic, don't configure anything that might cause > >> an on-demand connection. Right? > > > > So how would an operator configure YP then, if the only connection > > types available are "persistent" and "periodic-with-on-demand"? > > I would have the corresponding notif draft augment in a new connection- > type (e.g. "notifications") and that the notif data model's leafref > would only point to connections having that connection-type. No > conflation of purpose, each connection definition has a specific > purpose. So it would have to create a duplicate call-home/netconf-client entry (with duplicate address and keys etc). Ok, that would work. But it seems to me to be just a different syntax for the exact same thing. > >> Maybe. I'm not yet buying the need to repurpose a call-home > >> connection for yang-push. > > > > It is not just YP, but notifications in general. > > I know that this is the idea, but we have no other examples at hand, > and so it reduces to just YP for me. Maybe I want the device to call home on demand if an alarm with a certain severity is raised. Maybe I want the device to call home on demand if it detects new hardware. ... > >> FYI, another niggle I'm getting is how all repurposed call-home > >> connections might be supported by generic server frameworks like > >> NCS. Would NCS examine the device config, determine how many > >> triggers might have caused this and then, how each, start the > >> trigger-specific action to see if it was the reason why the > >> device called home?> > > > > Why do you call then "repurposed"? This is a problem in general > > with call-home; how does the client know what to do? An indication > > of why the server called home might help. > > yes, this a rehash of the "reason" topic above. I'm using the > word "repurpose" because, the primary-purpose is to establish a > NC/RC session that the client can then do whatever it wants with > (including starting a dynamic subscription in a separate SSH > channel). The "repurpose" part is having other triggers using > the same connection for their purposes, in which case the purpose > is most definitely not the same as the normal purpose. If call-home is explicitly not designed for any "on demand" use cases, this should be clearly indicated in the document. /martin From nobody Thu Aug 30 02:11:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82E21277BB for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 02:11:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.33 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.33 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=PpBGuHx6; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=J+/s5poc Received: from 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<78F11F06-45EF-42DC-99CF-204FE81F00AB@juniper.net> References: <7A1BA8A7-76E5-4961-8DE8-8794FB97AA6C@juniper.net> <20180829.091230.1123608459682664816.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180830.084455.956764479206631430.mbj@tail-f.com> <78F11F06-45EF-42DC-99CF-204FE81F00AB@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:26:05 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Martin Bjorklund , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e2615a0574ac0bcf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 19:26:12 -0000 --000000000000e2615a0574ac0bcf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > >> Maybe RFC 8071 can be updated to add: > >> > >> - the server MUST (SHOULD?) implement some "ietf-call-home" module > >> that defines an RPC called "call-home-reason" that returns an > >> identifier (a base identity) that indicates the reason for the > >> call-home connection. > >> > >> - the client SHOULD (MUST?), as a first step, use said RPC to > >> determine the reason the server initiated the call-home > >> connection. > > > > This sounds promising, and worth thinking about more. > > Ideally, we don't have to update RFC 8071. Do you think it could be > done? What if we 1) defined the "ietf-call-home" module, 2) updated > the ietf-[net|rest]conf-server drafts's description of the "call-home" > container to encourage the use of it, and 3) require its use for > the "notif" drafts? > > > Isn't this just an implementation detail? I don't mind this new RPC, but not sure it is really needed. The server knows which socket it opened to start the callhome TCP connection. If a callhome session is started for a configured subscription then this RPC might help. IMO it is better if the client issues an RPC, and this is just a generalized version of that. Andy > > > > >> Yes, maintaining roles is goodness, but it's not so important when > >> configuring "push" flows, where it's okay to let the device be the > >> protocol-client because it's a secondary purpose (fault-monitoring > >> is secondary to provisioning). > > > > But notifs can be important in provisioning work flows as well, and > > especially so for YP. > > Again, I'm generally okay, even support, using the same call-home > connections used for provisions, if it's possible without going out > of our way to make it happen. > > > >> BTW, while I enjoy the entertaining the idea, you should know that > >> I don't support NC or RC based configured subscriptions (and I can > >> hardly think of another reason for why a device might want to call > >> home "on-demand"). > > > > Agreed. If there is "something else" that would cause the device to > > call home on demand, you can always create a notification that > > represents this "something else", and we're back to SN. > > > > One thing could be calling home after a reboot. > > Calling home after reboot sounds prudent, but it could be already > accounted for in that: > > 1. a standard call-home (persistent or periodic) connection that > has been configured will likely do this already. Certainly a > persistent connection would, for a periodic connection, the > text doesn't say, but we could fix that. > > 2. a YP-driven on-demand connection has been configured, and the > reboot event generated a notification that (through QoS?) > results in a notification being delivered. > > > >> > - on-demand > >> > >> maybe, but 1) many open issues, 2) a "notifications" connection-type > >> augmented in might be better (more meaningful, etc.), and 3) I think > >> client-initiated connections are generally better suited than call-home > >> for YP+SN. > > > > I think that dynamic subscriptions (over a client-initiated connection > > or a call-home connection) are better suited than configured > > subscriptions. > > For many, perhaps most, use cases, I agree. I think Eric first said, and > I agree, that 1) there is a window of time between reboot and when the > dynamic subscription is initiated that might be missed (yes, there is > "replay", but that might be lossy are otherwise not used) and 2) there > is the convenience factor. > > > > >> > - periodic-with-on-demand > >> > >> I don't understand this. I'm sure your thinking that it will call home > >> sometimes with reason=scheduled (or whatever) and then other times with > >> reason=yang-push (or whatever), but what happens when the YANG-push is > >> suppose to happen at the same time there is already a periodic > connection? > >> Assuming this connection-type presumes the existence of the "on-demand" > >> connection type, why not instead configure a dedicated on-demand > >> connection type? > > > > Well, this is the "periodic" that exists today. > > I know! :sigh: I've been trying to say in my last few responses that it > may be a mistake. Just like you, I thought it would be goodness, but when > looking at how it would be implemented, it gets becomes murky. > > Let's says it's a "persistent" connection that YP+SN is pointing to. When > there is a notification to send, the call-home connection should be up > already (connecting previously w/ e.g., reason="persistent"). Okay, so > *how* does the notification get delivered? If NETCONF, then we might be > able to claim some implied :interleave: ability, but that doesn't work > for RESTCONF. If SSH, we might be able to define some mutli-channeling > mechanisms, but that work for TLS. > > Now let's say it's a "periodic" connection that YP+SN is pointing to. This > is same as the "persistent" case except that, sometimes, the underlying > connection won't be up and therefore must be brought up (with e.g., reason= > notifications). This in itself isn't a problem in my view, the issues are > in how to deliver the notification when the connection is already up. > > Answering my own question, maybe, perhaps the answer is that there is no > reuse of the underlying connection. Having YP+SN point to the connection > definition does not mean "repurpose the TCP connection" so much as just > repurpose the configuration definition, but always initiate a new > call-home connection, using all the same ports/credentials, etc., the > only difference being that it is with reason=notificiations. What do > you think? > > > > >> > - strictly-periodic > >> > >> I generally like the idea of removing the "The NETCONF/RESTCONF > server/client > >> MAY initiate additional connections to the NETCONF client/server if > needed > >> for reasons not described here." sentence from the various "periodic" > >> descriptions, but... > >> > >> I'm okay (can live with) leaving it in, from a future-proofing > perspective, > >> more so than for anything that we plan on doing now. > > > > I agree that if we explicitly do not define configured subscriptions > > for NETCONF / RESTCONF, then we just need "persistent" and > > "strictly-periodic". In that case there is no "on-demand" use case. > > I want to agree, but the wording has me unsure. Here is where I think > we're at: > > OPTION 1: (MORE FLEXIBLE) > > - defined call-home connection types: > - persistent > - periodic > - one of: > - on-demand (defined in the client/server drafts) > - "notifications" (augmented in via a notif draft, my pref) > - YP+SN can point to any or, alternatively, a regular *conf-client > definition (not a call-home definition) > - the "ietf-call-home" module with the "call-home-reason" RPC is > implemented > - when pointing to persistent or periodic call-home definition, it means: > a) always initiate a new call-home connection (reason=notifications) > [idea introduced above] and wait for the client to do some reason- > specific TBD thing to e.g., collect the logs from the server. By > "always", I really mean, only if there isn't a reason-specific > connection established already. > b) do some magic to multiplex over the existing call-home connection > [not sure how to do this yet] > - when pointing to an on-demand or notifications connection, it means > same as (a). > - when pointing to a regular (not call-home) connection, always initiate > a new connection (assuming there isn't a connection established > already). > No call-home "reason" is set, but we might state that the receiver > (the NMS, which would be the protocol-level server), if NC/RC based, > must advertise some capability. > > > OPTION 2: (KIND OF STRICT) > > - defined call-home connection types: > - persistent > - periodic > - "notifications" (augmented in via a notif draft) > - YP+SN can only point to "notifications" type or, alternatively, a > regular *conf-client definition (not a call-home definition) > - the "ietf-call-home" module with the "call-home-reason" RPC is > implemented > - when pointing to an on-demand connection, it means same as (a) above. > - when pointing to a regular (not call-home) connection, always initiate > a new connection (assuming there isn't a connection established > already). > No call-home "reason" is set, but we might state that the receiver > (the NMS, which would be the protocol-level server), if NC/RC based, > must advertise some capability. > > > > > > So it would have to create a duplicate call-home/netconf-client entry > > (with duplicate address and keys etc). Ok, that would work. But it > > seems to me to be just a different syntax for the exact same thing. > > Agreed. Perhaps my newest proposal about just repurposing to connection > configuration (not the connection itself) gets us out of this morass... > > > >> >> Maybe. I'm not yet buying the need to repurpose a call-home > >> >> connection for yang-push. > >> > > >> > It is not just YP, but notifications in general. > >> > >> I know that this is the idea, but we have no other examples at hand, > >> and so it reduces to just YP for me. > > > > Maybe I want the device to call home on demand if an alarm with a > > certain severity is raised. > > > > Maybe I want the device to call home on demand if it detects new > > hardware. > > > > ... > > Sure, but wouldn't both of these be notifications too? I'm trying to > think of something that wouldn't be a notification. > > > > > >> yes, this a rehash of the "reason" topic above. I'm using the > >> word "repurpose" because, the primary-purpose is to establish a > >> NC/RC session that the client can then do whatever it wants with > >> (including starting a dynamic subscription in a separate SSH > >> channel). The "repurpose" part is having other triggers using > >> the same connection for their purposes, in which case the purpose > >> is most definitely not the same as the normal purpose. > > > > If call-home is explicitly not designed for any "on demand" use cases, > > this should be clearly indicated in the document. > > Yes, if we go this route (OPTION-2 above), we most certainly will. > > > Kent > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --000000000000e2615a0574ac0bcf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:


>> Maybe RFC 8071 can be updated to add:
>>
>>=C2=A0 - the server MUST (SHOULD?) implement some "ietf-call-h= ome" module
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that defines an RPC called "call-home-reason&quo= t; that returns an
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 identifier (a base identity) that indicates the reaso= n for the
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 call-home connection.
>>
>>=C2=A0 - the client SHOULD (MUST?), as a first step, use said RPC t= o
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 determine the reason the server initiated the call-ho= me
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 connection.
>
> This sounds promising, and worth thinking about more.

Ideally, we don't have to update RFC 8071.=C2=A0 Do you think it could = be
done?=C2=A0 What if we 1) defined the "ietf-call-home" module, 2)= updated
the ietf-[net|rest]conf-server drafts's description of the "call-h= ome"
container to encourage the use of it, and 3) require its use for
the "notif" drafts?




Isn't this just an = implementation detail?
I don't mind this new RPC, but not sur= e it is really needed.
The server knows which socket it opened to= start the callhome TCP connection.

If a callhome = session is started for a configured subscription then this RPC
mi= ght help.=C2=A0 IMO it is better if the client issues an <activate-confi= gured-subscription>
RPC, and this is just a generalized versio= n of that.


Andy






>> Yes, maintaining roles is goodness, but it's not so important = when
>> configuring "push" flows, where it's okay to let the= device be the
>> protocol-client because it's a secondary purpose (fault-monito= ring
>> is secondary to provisioning).
>
> But notifs can be important in provisioning work flows as well, and > especially so for YP.

Again, I'm generally okay, even support, using the same call-home
connections used for provisions, if it's possible without going out
of our way to make it happen.


>> BTW, while I enjoy the entertaining the idea, you should know that=
>> I don't support NC or RC based configured subscriptions (and I= can
>> hardly think of another reason for why a device might want to call=
>> home "on-demand").
>
> Agreed.=C2=A0 If there is "something else" that would cause = the device to
> call home on demand, you can always create a notification that
> represents this "something else", and we're back to SN.<= br> >
> One thing could be calling home after a reboot.

Calling home after reboot sounds prudent, but it could be already
accounted for in that:

=C2=A0 1. a standard call-home (persistent or periodic) connection that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0has been configured will likely do this already.=C2=A0 = Certainly a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0persistent connection would, for a periodic connection,= the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0text doesn't say, but we could fix that.

=C2=A0 2. a YP-driven on-demand connection has been configured, and the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reboot event generated a notification that (through QoS= ?)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0results in a notification being delivered.


>> >=C2=A0 - on-demand
>>
>> maybe, but 1) many open issues, 2) a "notifications" con= nection-type
>> augmented in might be better (more meaningful, etc.), and 3) I thi= nk
>> client-initiated connections are generally better suited than call= -home
>> for YP+SN.
>
> I think that dynamic subscriptions (over a client-initiated connection=
> or a call-home connection) are better suited than configured
> subscriptions.

For many, perhaps most, use cases, I agree.=C2=A0 I think Eric first said, = and
I agree, that 1) there is a window of time between reboot and when the
dynamic subscription is initiated that might be missed (yes, there is
"replay", but that might be lossy are otherwise not used) and 2) = there
is the convenience factor.=C2=A0



>> >=C2=A0 - periodic-with-on-demand
>>
>> I don't understand this.=C2=A0 I'm sure your thinking that= it will call home
>> sometimes with reason=3Dscheduled (or whatever) and then other tim= es with
>> reason=3Dyang-push (or whatever), but what happens when the YANG-p= ush is
>> suppose to happen at the same time there is already a periodic con= nection?
>> Assuming this connection-type presumes the existence of the "= on-demand"
>> connection type, why not instead configure a dedicated on-demand <= br> >> connection type?
>
> Well, this is the "periodic" that exists today.

I know!=C2=A0 :sigh:=C2=A0 I've been trying to say in my last few respo= nses that it
may be a mistake.=C2=A0 Just like you, I thought it would be goodness, but = when
looking at how it would be implemented, it gets becomes murky.

Let's says it's a "persistent" connection that YP+SN is p= ointing to.=C2=A0 When
there is a notification to send, the call-home connection should be up
already (connecting previously w/ e.g., reason=3D"persistent").= =C2=A0 Okay, so
*how* does the notification get delivered?=C2=A0 If NETCONF, then we might = be
able to claim some implied :interleave: ability, but that doesn't work<= br> for RESTCONF.=C2=A0 If SSH, we might be able to define some mutli-channelin= g
mechanisms, but that work for TLS.

Now let's say it's a "periodic" connection that YP+SN is = pointing to.=C2=A0 This
is same as the "persistent" case except that, sometimes, the unde= rlying
connection won't be up and therefore must be brought up (with e.g., rea= son=3D
notifications).=C2=A0 This in itself isn't a problem in my view, the is= sues are
in how to deliver the notification when the connection is already up.

Answering my own question, maybe, perhaps the answer is that there is no reuse of the underlying connection.=C2=A0 Having YP+SN point to the connect= ion
definition does not mean "repurpose the TCP connection" so much a= s just
repurpose the configuration definition, but always initiate a new
call-home connection, using all the same ports/credentials, etc., the
only difference being that it is with reason=3Dnotificiations.=C2=A0 What d= o
you think?



>> >=C2=A0 - strictly-periodic
>>
>> I generally like the idea of removing the "The NETCONF/RESTCO= NF server/client
>> MAY initiate additional connections to the NETCONF client/server i= f needed
>> for reasons not described here." sentence from the various &q= uot;periodic"
>> descriptions, but...
>>
>> I'm okay (can live with) leaving it in, from a future-proofing= perspective,
>> more so than for anything that we plan on doing now.
>
> I agree that if we explicitly do not define configured subscriptions > for NETCONF / RESTCONF, then we just need "persistent" and > "strictly-periodic".=C2=A0 =C2=A0In that case there is no &q= uot;on-demand" use case.

I want to agree, but the wording has me unsure.=C2=A0 Here is where I think=
we're at:

OPTION 1: (MORE FLEXIBLE)

=C2=A0 - defined call-home connection types:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - persistent
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - periodic
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - one of:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - on-demand (defined in the client/server draft= s)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - "notifications" (augmented in via a= notif draft, my pref)
=C2=A0 - YP+SN can point to any or, alternatively, a regular *conf-client =C2=A0 =C2=A0 definition (not a call-home definition)
=C2=A0 - the "ietf-call-home" module with the "call-home-rea= son" RPC is implemented
=C2=A0 - when pointing to persistent or periodic call-home definition, it m= eans:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a) always initiate a new call-home connection (reason= =3Dnotifications)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [idea introduced above] and wait for the client= to do some reason-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 specific TBD thing to e.g., collect the logs fr= om the server.=C2=A0 By
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "always", I really mean, only if ther= e isn't a reason-specific
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 connection established already.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0b) do some magic to multiplex over the existing call-ho= me connection
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [not sure how to do this yet]
=C2=A0 - when pointing to an on-demand or notifications connection, it mean= s
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 same as (a).
=C2=A0 - when pointing to a regular (not call-home) connection, always init= iate
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a new connection (assuming there isn't a connection estab= lished already).
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 No call-home "reason" is set, but we might state th= at the receiver
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (the NMS, which would be the protocol-level server), if NC/RC= based,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 must advertise some capability.


OPTION 2:=C2=A0 (KIND OF STRICT)

=C2=A0 - defined call-home connection types:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - persistent
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - periodic
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - "notifications" (augmented in via a notif = draft)
=C2=A0 - YP+SN can only point to "notifications" type or, alterna= tively, a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 regular *conf-client definition (not a call-home definition)<= br> =C2=A0 - the "ietf-call-home" module with the "call-home-rea= son" RPC is implemented
=C2=A0 - when pointing to an on-demand connection, it means same as (a) abo= ve.
=C2=A0 - when pointing to a regular (not call-home) connection, always init= iate
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a new connection (assuming there isn't a connection estab= lished already).
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 No call-home "reason" is set, but we might state th= at the receiver
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (the NMS, which would be the protocol-level server), if NC/RC= based,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 must advertise some capability.




> So it would have to create a duplicate call-home/netconf-client entry<= br> > (with duplicate address and keys etc).=C2=A0 Ok, that would work.=C2= =A0 But it
> seems to me to be just a different syntax for the exact same thing.
Agreed.=C2=A0 Perhaps my newest proposal about just repurposing to connecti= on
configuration (not the connection itself) gets us out of this morass...


>> >> Maybe.=C2=A0 I'm not yet buying the need to repurpose= a call-home
>> >> connection for yang-push.
>> >
>> > It is not just YP, but notifications in general.
>>
>> I know that this is the idea, but we have no other examples at han= d,
>> and so it reduces to just YP for me.
>
> Maybe I want the device to call home on demand if an alarm with a
> certain severity is raised.
>
> Maybe I want the device to call home on demand if it detects new
> hardware.
>
> ...

Sure, but wouldn't both of these be notifications too?=C2=A0 I'm tr= ying to
think of something that wouldn't be a notification.




>> yes, this a rehash of the "reason" topic above.=C2=A0 I&= #39;m using the
>> word "repurpose" because, the primary-purpose is to esta= blish a
>> NC/RC session that the client can then do whatever it wants with >> (including starting a dynamic subscription in a separate SSH
>> channel).=C2=A0 The "repurpose" part is having other tri= ggers using
>> the same connection for their purposes, in which case the purpose<= br> >> is most definitely not the same as the normal purpose.
>
> If call-home is explicitly not designed for any "on demand" = use cases,
> this should be clearly indicated in the document.

Yes, if we go this route (OPTION-2 above), we most certainly will.


Kent

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Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

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X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pZ9o4WBhjb4M for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 02:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EEC9130DCA for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 02:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 75E541AE018B; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:29:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:29:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180831.112941.578054615225468495.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <78F11F06-45EF-42DC-99CF-204FE81F00AB@juniper.net> References: <20180830.084455.956764479206631430.mbj@tail-f.com> <78F11F06-45EF-42DC-99CF-204FE81F00AB@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:29:44 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > > >> Maybe RFC 8071 can be updated to add: > >> > >> - the server MUST (SHOULD?) implement some "ietf-call-home" module > >> that defines an RPC called "call-home-reason" that returns an > >> identifier (a base identity) that indicates the reason for the > >> call-home connection. > >> > >> - the client SHOULD (MUST?), as a first step, use said RPC to > >> determine the reason the server initiated the call-home > >> connection. > > > > This sounds promising, and worth thinking about more. > > Ideally, we don't have to update RFC 8071. Do you think it could be > done? What if we 1) defined the "ietf-call-home" module, 2) updated > the ietf-[net|rest]conf-server drafts's description of the "call-home" > container to encourage the use of it, and 3) require its use for > the "notif" drafts? I think we need to work out the details first, to see if it works. > >> Yes, maintaining roles is goodness, but it's not so important when > >> configuring "push" flows, where it's okay to let the device be the > >> protocol-client because it's a secondary purpose (fault-monitoring > >> is secondary to provisioning). > > > > But notifs can be important in provisioning work flows as well, and > > especially so for YP. > > Again, I'm generally okay, even support, using the same call-home > connections used for provisions, if it's possible without going out > of our way to make it happen. > > > >> BTW, while I enjoy the entertaining the idea, you should know that > >> I don't support NC or RC based configured subscriptions (and I can > >> hardly think of another reason for why a device might want to call > >> home "on-demand"). > > > > Agreed. If there is "something else" that would cause the device to > > call home on demand, you can always create a notification that > > represents this "something else", and we're back to SN. > > > > One thing could be calling home after a reboot. > > Calling home after reboot sounds prudent, but it could be already > accounted for in that: > > 1. a standard call-home (persistent or periodic) connection that > has been configured will likely do this already. Certainly a > persistent connection would, for a periodic connection, the > text doesn't say, but we could fix that. > > 2. a YP-driven on-demand connection has been configured, and the > reboot event generated a notification that (through QoS?) > results in a notification being delivered. > > > >> > - on-demand > >> > >> maybe, but 1) many open issues, 2) a "notifications" connection-type > >> augmented in might be better (more meaningful, etc.), and 3) I think > >> client-initiated connections are generally better suited than call-home > >> for YP+SN. > > > > I think that dynamic subscriptions (over a client-initiated connection > > or a call-home connection) are better suited than configured > > subscriptions. > > For many, perhaps most, use cases, I agree. I think Eric first said, and > I agree, that 1) there is a window of time between reboot and when the > dynamic subscription is initiated that might be missed (yes, there is > "replay", but that might be lossy are otherwise not used) and 2) there > is the convenience factor. > > > > >> > - periodic-with-on-demand > >> > >> I don't understand this. I'm sure your thinking that it will call home > >> sometimes with reason=scheduled (or whatever) and then other times with > >> reason=yang-push (or whatever), but what happens when the YANG-push is > >> suppose to happen at the same time there is already a periodic connection? > >> Assuming this connection-type presumes the existence of the "on-demand" > >> connection type, why not instead configure a dedicated on-demand > >> connection type? > > > > Well, this is the "periodic" that exists today. > > I know! :sigh: I've been trying to say in my last few responses that it > may be a mistake. Just like you, I thought it would be goodness, but when > looking at how it would be implemented, it gets becomes murky. > > Let's says it's a "persistent" connection that YP+SN is pointing to. When > there is a notification to send, the call-home connection should be up > already (connecting previously w/ e.g., reason="persistent"). Okay, so > *how* does the notification get delivered? If NETCONF, then we might be > able to claim some implied :interleave: ability Yes. But note that interleaving *is* in fact mandatory with the new SN drafts. > but that doesn't work > for RESTCONF. AFAIK there is no attempt to define a mapping for configured subscriptions for RESTCONF. > If SSH, we might be able to define some mutli-channeling > mechanisms, but that work for TLS. > > Now let's say it's a "periodic" connection that YP+SN is pointing to. This > is same as the "persistent" case except that, sometimes, the underlying > connection won't be up and therefore must be brought up (with e.g., reason= > notifications). This in itself isn't a problem in my view, the issues are > in how to deliver the notification when the connection is already up. If it can be done for persistent then it can be done for an existing periodic session. > Answering my own question, maybe, perhaps the answer is that there is no > reuse of the underlying connection. Having YP+SN point to the connection > definition does not mean "repurpose the TCP connection" so much as just > repurpose the configuration definition, but always initiate a new > call-home connection, using all the same ports/credentials, etc., the > only difference being that it is with reason=notificiations. What do > you think? I think that as long as we mandate interleaving, we can as well send them on the existing session. > >> > - strictly-periodic > >> > >> I generally like the idea of removing the "The NETCONF/RESTCONF server/client > >> MAY initiate additional connections to the NETCONF client/server if needed > >> for reasons not described here." sentence from the various "periodic" > >> descriptions, but... > >> > >> I'm okay (can live with) leaving it in, from a future-proofing perspective, > >> more so than for anything that we plan on doing now. > > > > I agree that if we explicitly do not define configured subscriptions > > for NETCONF / RESTCONF, then we just need "persistent" and > > "strictly-periodic". In that case there is no "on-demand" use case. > > I want to agree, but the wording has me unsure. Here is where I think > we're at: > > OPTION 1: (MORE FLEXIBLE) > > - defined call-home connection types: > - persistent > - periodic > - one of: > - on-demand (defined in the client/server drafts) > - "notifications" (augmented in via a notif draft, my pref) > - YP+SN can point to any or, alternatively, a regular *conf-client > definition (not a call-home definition) > - the "ietf-call-home" module with the "call-home-reason" RPC is implemented > - when pointing to persistent or periodic call-home definition, it means: > a) always initiate a new call-home connection (reason=notifications) > [idea introduced above] and wait for the client to do some reason- > specific TBD thing to e.g., collect the logs from the server. By > "always", I really mean, only if there isn't a reason-specific > connection established already. > b) do some magic to multiplex over the existing call-home connection > [not sure how to do this yet] > - when pointing to an on-demand or notifications connection, it means > same as (a). > - when pointing to a regular (not call-home) connection, always initiate > a new connection (assuming there isn't a connection established already). > No call-home "reason" is set, but we might state that the receiver > (the NMS, which would be the protocol-level server), if NC/RC based, > must advertise some capability. > > > OPTION 2: (KIND OF STRICT) > > - defined call-home connection types: > - persistent > - periodic > - "notifications" (augmented in via a notif draft) > - YP+SN can only point to "notifications" type or, alternatively, a > regular *conf-client definition (not a call-home definition) > - the "ietf-call-home" module with the "call-home-reason" RPC is implemented > - when pointing to an on-demand connection, it means same as (a) above. > - when pointing to a regular (not call-home) connection, always initiate > a new connection (assuming there isn't a connection established already). > No call-home "reason" is set, but we might state that the receiver > (the NMS, which would be the protocol-level server), if NC/RC based, > must advertise some capability. It seems you assume that we *are* (will be) doing configured subscriptions for NETCONF? > > So it would have to create a duplicate call-home/netconf-client entry > > (with duplicate address and keys etc). Ok, that would work. But it > > seems to me to be just a different syntax for the exact same thing. > > Agreed. Perhaps my newest proposal about just repurposing to connection > configuration (not the connection itself) gets us out of this morass... > > > >> >> Maybe. I'm not yet buying the need to repurpose a call-home > >> >> connection for yang-push. > >> > > >> > It is not just YP, but notifications in general. > >> > >> I know that this is the idea, but we have no other examples at hand, > >> and so it reduces to just YP for me. > > > > Maybe I want the device to call home on demand if an alarm with a > > certain severity is raised. > > > > Maybe I want the device to call home on demand if it detects new > > hardware. > > > > ... > > Sure, but wouldn't both of these be notifications too? Yes, but you wrote "it reduces to just YP for me". The notifs above are not YP, but just notifs. > I'm trying to > think of something that wouldn't be a notification. > > > > > >> yes, this a rehash of the "reason" topic above. I'm using the > >> word "repurpose" because, the primary-purpose is to establish a > >> NC/RC session that the client can then do whatever it wants with > >> (including starting a dynamic subscription in a separate SSH > >> channel). The "repurpose" part is having other triggers using > >> the same connection for their purposes, in which case the purpose > >> is most definitely not the same as the normal purpose. > > > > If call-home is explicitly not designed for any "on demand" use cases, > > this should be clearly indicated in the document. > > Yes, if we go this route (OPTION-2 above), we most certainly will. > > > Kent > /martin From nobody Fri Aug 31 03:25:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77980130E2C for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 03:25:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K_-PztAQjcET for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 03:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (anna.eecs.jacobs-university.de [IPv6:2001:638:709:5::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C9E1277BB for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 03:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id BE9882478CA7; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:25:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:25:40 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: kwatsen@juniper.net, netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180831102540.ileyzgsrades5m7g@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , kwatsen@juniper.net, netconf@ietf.org References: <20180830.084455.956764479206631430.mbj@tail-f.com> <78F11F06-45EF-42DC-99CF-204FE81F00AB@juniper.net> <20180831.112941.578054615225468495.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180831.112941.578054615225468495.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:25:46 -0000 On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 11:29:41AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > >> Maybe RFC 8071 can be updated to add: > > >> > > >> - the server MUST (SHOULD?) implement some "ietf-call-home" module > > >> that defines an RPC called "call-home-reason" that returns an > > >> identifier (a base identity) that indicates the reason for the > > >> call-home connection. > > >> > > >> - the client SHOULD (MUST?), as a first step, use said RPC to > > >> determine the reason the server initiated the call-home > > >> connection. > > > > > > This sounds promising, and worth thinking about more. > > > > Ideally, we don't have to update RFC 8071. Do you think it could be > > done? What if we 1) defined the "ietf-call-home" module, 2) updated > > the ietf-[net|rest]conf-server drafts's description of the "call-home" > > container to encourage the use of it, and 3) require its use for > > the "notif" drafts? > > I think we need to work out the details first, to see if it works. > I think it would in general be nice to have a way to find out why some server did call home. If such a mechanism works for multiple protocols in the same way, even nicer. The other alternative is to listen on different transport endpoints and then to guess from the transport endpoint used why a server did call home. Well, even if you deploy things this way (may actually be falling out if you have separate clients), it might still be nice for the client to be able to check that it is actually being called for the right purpose. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Aug 31 12:29:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864F7130DD0 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:29:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fqqkWiHY0H4i for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42194124C04 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0108162.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w7VJTYlA017389; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:29:34 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=+ZH+ihwz0WHqeZ4bd9Aih3MdS7ov/RYTSICfF0WUtKc=; b=gNQq/RNaMP4EOj2mJa554W+j7dCIRIMode5S69ty3V0yBDKrda6wWZdRkjqV3SC40Lpk MV7hILN+Jh6nBa1COXM3HvjkEQoSzY97sgnw5AWwflgZJl0CRauzKY9/zo6bAXjyEok+ u6tET3Yn1hk96MhTi3saasCulhqT3R17EdpI3+nGGjCI/Qs8PxA2vRVB6oTpoeulsxMK EAkmNsc+eAmVqOn/OczC+Lslg0REent04TY8OxSPea1hwaauLwER0fLXZFfavPLvuJfm GH435mm1vFQd4CKLfdlAGGTCQs5lG+cFX879bJJ0vCmQXtX5F6K/WJKz4bEQvhYtUELU 5A== Received: from nam04-co1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam04lp0054.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.181.54]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2m7b4ur2ty-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:29:34 -0700 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.109.202) by DM6PR05MB4746.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.109.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1122.7; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 19:29:32 +0000 Received: from DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::544a:dd4d:9524:9e6d]) by DM6PR05MB4665.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::544a:dd4d:9524:9e6d%5]) with mapi id 15.20.1122.009; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 19:29:32 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Mahesh Jethanandani CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] should onboarding information *set* the debug level? 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Fri, 31 Aug 2018 14:00:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:2257:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 14:00:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7A1BA8A7-76E5-4961-8DE8-8794FB97AA6C@juniper.net> <20180829.091230.1123608459682664816.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180830.084455.956764479206631430.mbj@tail-f.com> <78F11F06-45EF-42DC-99CF-204FE81F00AB@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 14:00:47 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Martin Bjorklund , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006ffa270574c17cb1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf call home connection type X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 21:00:53 -0000 --0000000000006ffa270574c17cb1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 1:32 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > >>>> Maybe RFC 8071 can be updated to add: > >>>> > >>>> - the server MUST (SHOULD?) implement some "ietf-call-home" module > >>>> that defines an RPC called "call-home-reason" that returns an > >>>> identifier (a base identity) that indicates the reason for the > >>>> call-home connection. > >>>> > >>>> - the client SHOULD (MUST?), as a first step, use said RPC to > >>>> determine the reason the server initiated the call-home > >>>> connection. > >>> > >>> This sounds promising, and worth thinking about more. > >> > >> Ideally, we don't have to update RFC 8071. Do you think it could be > >> done? What if we 1) defined the "ietf-call-home" module, 2) updated > >> the ietf-[net|rest]conf-server drafts's description of the "call-home" > >> container to encourage the use of it, and 3) require its use for > >> the "notif" drafts? > > > > Isn't this just an implementation detail? > > I don't mind this new RPC, but not sure it is really needed. > > The server knows which socket it opened to start the callhome TCP > connection. > > > > If a callhome session is started for a configured subscription then this > RPC > > might help. IMO it is better if the client issues an > > > RPC, and this is just a generalized version of that. > > I agree that an RPC like would be a > good way for a client to initiate the flow of notifications from a > call-home connection. > > But I think what we're missing is that there may be other reasons why the > call-home connection was made, configured subscriptions being just one. > Thus, it's necessary for the client to first determine the reason and > then, if e.g., "configured-subscription", it issues then configured-subscription> RPC. For instance: > > C: ietf-call-home:get-call-home-reason > S: configured-subscription > C: ietf-subscribed-notifications:activate-configured-subscription > S: > > Makes sense? > yes -- this is better > > Kent > > > --0000000000006ffa270574c17cb1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 1:32 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi Andy,

>>>> Maybe RFC 8071 can be updated to add:
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 - the server MUST (SHOULD?) implement some "iet= f-call-home" module
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that defines an RPC called "call-home-re= ason" that returns an
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 identifier (a base identity) that indicates t= he reason for the
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 call-home connection.
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 - the client SHOULD (MUST?), as a first step, use sa= id RPC to
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 determine the reason the server initiated the= call-home
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 connection.
>>>
>>> This sounds promising, and worth thinking about more.
>>
>> Ideally, we don't have to update RFC 8071.=C2=A0 Do you think = it could be
>> done?=C2=A0 What if we 1) defined the "ietf-call-home" m= odule, 2) updated
>> the ietf-[net|rest]conf-server drafts's description of the &qu= ot;call-home"
>> container to encourage the use of it, and 3) require its use for >> the "notif" drafts?
>
> Isn't this just an implementation detail?
> I don't mind this new RPC, but not sure it is really needed.
> The server knows which socket it opened to start the callhome TCP conn= ection.
>
> If a callhome session is started for a configured subscription then th= is RPC
> might help.=C2=A0 IMO it is better if the client issues an <activat= e-configured-subscription>
> RPC, and this is just a generalized version of that.

I agree that an RPC like <activate-configured-subscription> woul= d be a
good way for a client to initiate the flow of notifications from a
call-home connection.

But I think what we're missing is that there may be other reasons why t= he
call-home connection was made, configured subscriptions being just one.
Thus, it's necessary for the client to first determine the reason and then, if e.g., "configured-subscription", it issues then <acti= vate-
configured-subscription> RPC.=C2=A0 For instance:

=C2=A0 C: ietf-call-home:get-call-home-reason
=C2=A0 S: configured-subscription
=C2=A0 C: ietf-subscribed-notifications:activate-configured-subsc= ription
=C2=A0 S: <flow begins>

Makes sense?=C2=A0

yes -- this is bette= r

=C2=A0

Kent



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