From nobody Sun Dec 2 10:03:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B575127598 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 10:03:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.359 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.359 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-1.459, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VJ3U-l6vTdid for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 10:03:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F327F126CC7 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 10:03:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id l10so7439876lfh.9 for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2018 10:03:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lElCKqJl/FSLyvW0Uj2Vm6toeemhMpoHXoUWG8mk2ps=; b=biLEplnsQXGdnPc6/tlMvAjdZ9pRNORc+j8SYnAWd+ehiBua8XqblZVfKR9tZyytt5 7KSXOk7SR7x4u0wIc9kMe1d6+RVS19110duABJa6TvZ2X/sTBoCnO8dZNP3T1XsTtwxN uLSpt2UYJIv7TBcPpwMJ85MjJaesI5w/q3rjPimE/34XZsuyZLq0FAmNxaPSbYSvh/rb 19HdNEZ6POewW0+4Vp7XQ19F0yhzg50urqML0/9swtMriC7PU0ChJMVfM1f4SIdvZRU0 mp6EY2aDPWifZ0ud7tvTweW1HrVjjrBsLglbV5A4YDrgj6RSQTI5tDST8PfJ6C+dsC4U A/QQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lElCKqJl/FSLyvW0Uj2Vm6toeemhMpoHXoUWG8mk2ps=; b=qHppAKmdbllh2f64GeuLvgUuop1D2Rc06eC6L6jK1WRjNX3+worLN5mzoRZenC/TO9 1op8CNwyVU/I/m8FAtPPGRdd5dbF3K2gJa0DHQXCmJEC5nQ03FFNo1IFIwNKJ+n/WeN7 BWfCN+o0BAhFdOzEjsxyJKTjcrorMJVpZ0Memij8t9c8Ki3yeMP2jrX60UU8YPPl1DlT lgmlganpgVT1AJ3kOVJmdmC55Q0TT9k6ugxoz49va0tTsGWgJ+NLfk+Re8EicFMH5HMP XCeO+BXQuAH5nGyz9Z7JpdHQ2aO8ZdULrMQBIVKPmK+A25E8Qy1kU3u6v/4TuEj3WPDt K1gQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbMLIPHlipvC2ciNOwYY8DpXsrwlz16nH3j+FPK5vkgsKo3MPfB 7/+5goC/Zo5te7wMvEn3Gry5+5wx/OYM3ZjF6qt8uykQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/U79xwJ18+PlZKu4TrwqvtG/xFCTcvULiSNJ2Pogdx+Qty2HOOimmncccOkU/uQgdXbdYCh9U5q9R2e2zuy9ro= X-Received: by 2002:a19:d58e:: with SMTP id m136mr8053125lfg.70.1543773788403; Sun, 02 Dec 2018 10:03:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Andy Bierman Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 10:02:57 -0800 Message-ID: To: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000458fd1057c0dd8f6" Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] comments on draft-wu-netconf-restconf-factory-restore-03 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2018 18:03:14 -0000 --000000000000458fd1057c0dd8f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I have comments and questions on the functional requirements and scope of the problem(s) to be solved. Scope seem to be: G1) reset device to factory config G2) set any datastore to contents of the factory config with G3) retrieve contents of factory-config with Q1) what is the factory datastore? The concept of a factory default config is universal but the implementation is not. This needs to be precisely defined in the draft. There is actually a factory-startup (--> running) and factory-intended. By default the factory-startup is likely an empty config (i.e. just the YANG defaults supported by the server). The factory-intended is implementation-specific. So what is standardized? factory-startup or factory-intended? both? Q2) leaf-list of datastores to reset Setting specific datastores to factory default is complex and dangerous. It is unlikely a server will support all possible combinations. A simple RPC to return the entire server to factory default is much easier to use and implement. Vendors can add input parameters to support their variants. Q3) filtered retrieval of the factory settings If a real datastore is used as proposed, then is subtree and XPath filtering required? It seems all operations except edit have to be supported by the server. Q4) why no retrieval without NMDA, factory-default-as-datastore feature? It would be useful to know what will happen if is invoked by retrieving the contents of the factory config. This is not possible if the datastore feature is not supported. I suggest another RPC rpc get-factory-defaults { if-feature "not factory-default-as-datastore"; output { anydata data; } } Andy --000000000000458fd1057c0dd8f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I have comments and questions on th= e functional requirements and
scope of the problem(s) to be solve= d. Scope seem to be:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0G1) reset device to factory con= fig
=C2=A0 =C2=A0G2) set any datastore to contents of the factory= config with <copy-config>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0G3) retrieve conten= ts of factory-config with <get-data>

Q1) wha= t is the factory datastore?

The concept of a facto= ry default config is universal but the implementation is not.
Thi= s needs to be precisely defined in the draft.

Ther= e is actually a factory-startup (--> running) and factory-intended.
By default the factory-startup is likely an empty config (i.e. just t= he YANG defaults
supported by the server).=C2=A0 The factory-inte= nded is implementation-specific.

So what is standa= rdized? factory-startup or factory-intended? both?

Q2) leaf-list of datastores to reset

Setting spec= ific datastores to factory default is complex and dangerous.
It i= s unlikely a server will support all possible combinations.
A sim= ple RPC to return the entire server to factory default is much easier to us= e
and implement. Vendors can add input parameters to support thei= r variants.

Q3) filtered retrieval of the factory = settings

If a real datastore is used as proposed, = then is subtree and XPath filtering required?
It seems all operat= ions except edit have to be supported by the server.

Q4) why no retrieval without NMDA, factory-default-as-datastore feature?=

It would be useful to know what will happen if &l= t;reset-datastore> is invoked
by retrieving the contents of th= e factory config. This is not possible if
the datastore feature i= s not supported. I suggest another RPC

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0rpc get-factory-defaults {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-feature &qu= ot;not factory-default-as-datastore";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o= utput {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 anydata data;
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}


<= /div>
Andy

--000000000000458fd1057c0dd8f6-- From nobody Sun Dec 2 21:57:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F69812D4EA for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 21:57:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oGqNATLFfOxp for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 21:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50E0E124408 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 21:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id B72D1B8122E; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 21:57:37 -0800 (PST) To: andy@yumaworks.com, mbj@tail-f.com, kwatsen@juniper.net, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, kwatsen@juniper.net, mjethanandani@gmail.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: bill.wu@huawei.com, netconf@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20181203055737.B72D1B8122E@rfc-editor.org> Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 21:57:37 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 05:57:46 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8040, "RESTCONF Protocol". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5565 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Qin Wu Section: 7 Original Text ------------- +-------------------------+------------------+ | error-tag | status code | +-------------------------+------------------+ | in-use | 409 | | lock-denied | 409 | | resource-denied | 409 | | data-exists | 409 | | data-missing | 409 | Corrected Text -------------- +-------------------------+------------------+ | error-tag | status code | +-------------------------+------------------+ | in-use | 409 | | lock-denied | 409 | | resource-denied | 409 | | data-exists | 409 | | data-missing | 404 | Notes ----- The data missing should be mapped to status code '404' instead of '409' to get consistent with the defintion of data-missing in RFC6241. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18) -------------------------------------- Title : RESTCONF Protocol Publication Date : January 2017 Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund, K. Watsen Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Network Configuration Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Mon Dec 3 00:58:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE3A130E01 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 00:58:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wyCI3YhRJqJN for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 00:58:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316A1126C01 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 00:58:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (h-39-108.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [213.136.39.108]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EFCD41AE0386; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 09:58:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 09:54:09 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181203.095409.224403340529984673.mbj@tail-f.com> To: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, kwatsen@juniper.net, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, mjethanandani@gmail.com, bill.wu@huawei.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20181203055737.B72D1B8122E@rfc-editor.org> References: <20181203055737.B72D1B8122E@rfc-editor.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 08:58:23 -0000 Hi, I don't think this errata should be accepted. 404 means that the requested resource doesn't exist, but "data-missing" can be returned e.g. if you try to patch an existing resource of type leafref to point to a non-existing leaf. /martin RFC Errata System wrote: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8040, > "RESTCONF Protocol". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5565 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Qin Wu > > Section: 7 > > Original Text > ------------- > +-------------------------+------------------+ > | error-tag | status code | > +-------------------------+------------------+ > | in-use | 409 | > | lock-denied | 409 | > | resource-denied | 409 | > | data-exists | 409 | > | data-missing | 409 | > > > Corrected Text > -------------- > +-------------------------+------------------+ > | error-tag | status code | > +-------------------------+------------------+ > | in-use | 409 | > | lock-denied | 409 | > | resource-denied | 409 | > | data-exists | 409 | > | data-missing | 404 | > > > Notes > ----- > The data missing should be mapped to status code '404' instead of '409' to get consistent with the defintion of data-missing in RFC6241. > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18) > -------------------------------------- > Title : RESTCONF Protocol > Publication Date : January 2017 > Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund, K. Watsen > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Network Configuration > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > From nobody Mon Dec 3 01:38:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1B0A130E2F for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 01:38:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VgdlB_dB6ieB for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 01:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FCC5130E4A for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 01:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 3281C92472129 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 09:38:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lhreml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.56) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 09:38:29 +0000 Received: from lhreml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.56) by lhreml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 09:38:29 +0000 Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1591.10 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 09:38:28 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.69]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 17:38:22 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Martin Bjorklund , "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" CC: "andy@yumaworks.com" , "kwatsen@juniper.net" , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "warren@kumari.net" , "mjethanandani@gmail.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) Thread-Index: AQHUis0fOWI85JR8KUeCGWx7iiB8pKVsL8uAgACRE7A= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 09:38:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20181203055737.B72D1B8122E@rfc-editor.org> <20181203.095409.224403340529984673.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20181203.095409.224403340529984673.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 09:38:48 -0000 U2VlIGRhdGEtbWlzc2luZyBkZWZpbml0aW9uIGluIFJGQzYyNDE6DQoiDQogICBlcnJvci10YWc6 ICAgICAgZGF0YS1taXNzaW5nDQogICBlcnJvci10eXBlOiAgICAgYXBwbGljYXRpb24NCiAgIGVy cm9yLXNldmVyaXR5OiBlcnJvcg0KICAgZXJyb3ItaW5mbzogICAgIG5vbmUNCiAgIERlc2NyaXB0 aW9uOiAgICBSZXF1ZXN0IGNvdWxkIG5vdCBiZSBjb21wbGV0ZWQgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGUgcmVsZXZh bnQNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBkYXRhIG1vZGVsIGNvbnRlbnQgZG9lcyBub3QgZXhpc3Qu ICBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBhICJkZWxldGUiIG9wZXJhdGlvbiB3 YXMgYXR0ZW1wdGVkIG9uDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZGF0YSB0aGF0IGRvZXMgbm90IGV4 aXN0Lg0KDQoiDQpBbmQgc3RhdHVzIGNvZGUgNDA5IGRlZmluaXRpb24gaW4gUkZDNzIzMQ0KIg0K Ni41LjguICA0MDkgQ29uZmxpY3QNCg0KICAgVGhlIDQwOSAoQ29uZmxpY3QpIHN0YXR1cyBjb2Rl 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b3RvY29sDQo+IFB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIERhdGUgICAgOiBKYW51YXJ5IDIwMTcNCj4gQXV0aG9yKHMp ICAgICAgICAgICA6IEEuIEJpZXJtYW4sIE0uIEJqb3JrbHVuZCwgSy4gV2F0c2VuDQo+IENhdGVn b3J5ICAgICAgICAgICAgOiBQUk9QT1NFRCBTVEFOREFSRA0KPiBTb3VyY2UgICAgICAgICAgICAg IDogTmV0d29yayBDb25maWd1cmF0aW9uDQo+IEFyZWEgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgOiBPcGVyYXRp b25zIGFuZCBNYW5hZ2VtZW50DQo+IFN0cmVhbSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgOiBJRVRGDQo+IFZlcmlm eWluZyBQYXJ0eSAgICAgOiBJRVNHDQo+IA0K From nobody Mon Dec 3 01:48:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222D0130E2F for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 01:48:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mZVXHLQFeiyf for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 01:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6846B130DE2 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 01:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (h-39-108.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [213.136.39.108]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7E22D1AE0386; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:48:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:48:08 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> To: bill.wu@huawei.com Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, andy@yumaworks.com, kwatsen@juniper.net, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20181203055737.B72D1B8122E@rfc-editor.org> <20181203.095409.224403340529984673.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 09:48:12 -0000 UWluIFd1IDxiaWxsLnd1QGh1YXdlaS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiBTZWUgZGF0YS1taXNzaW5nIGRl ZmluaXRpb24gaW4gUkZDNjI0MToNCj4gIg0KPiAgICBlcnJvci10YWc6ICAgICAgZGF0YS1taXNz aW5nDQo+ICAgIGVycm9yLXR5cGU6ICAgICBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbg0KPiAgICBlcnJvci1zZXZlcml0 eTogZXJyb3INCj4gICAgZXJyb3ItaW5mbzogICAgIG5vbmUNCj4gICAgRGVzY3JpcHRpb246ICAg IFJlcXVlc3QgY291bGQgbm90IGJlIGNvbXBsZXRlZCBiZWNhdXNlIHRoZSByZWxldmFudA0KPiAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZGF0YSBtb2RlbCBjb250ZW50IGRvZXMgbm90IGV4aXN0LiAgRm9y IGV4YW1wbGUsDQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBhICJkZWxldGUiIG9wZXJhdGlvbiB3YXMg YXR0ZW1wdGVkIG9uDQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBkYXRhIHRoYXQgZG9lcyBub3QgZXhp 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RVRGDQo+ID4gVmVyaWZ5aW5nIFBhcnR5ICAgICA6IElFU0cNCj4gPiANCg== From nobody Mon Dec 3 02:14:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E311130E3E for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:14:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O1iVGwMBxHdf for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:14:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE0ED130E19 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 11:14:00 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund CC: , , , , Message-ID: <20181203101400.ua4s7jlhaxoeyp3o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , bill.wu@huawei.com, ibagdona@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org, warren@kumari.net, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org References: <20181203055737.B72D1B8122E@rfc-editor.org> <20181203.095409.224403340529984673.mbj@tail-f.com> <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:14:08 -0000 On Mon, Dec 03, 2018 at 10:48:08AM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > So, maybe the proper fix is > > | data-missing | 404, 409 | > And then you hope that different implementors will come to the same conclusions when to return 404 or 409. I have some doubts that this will work well... Are there implementations that return 404 for data-missing today? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Dec 3 02:20:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3DA1130E3E for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:20:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4J8lHeJb6oTY for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:20:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48FFE130DDA for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:20:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (h-39-108.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [213.136.39.108]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E33F1AE0386; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 11:20:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:20:21 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181203.112021.415049598342701506.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: bill.wu@huawei.com, ibagdona@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org, warren@kumari.net, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20181203101400.ua4s7jlhaxoeyp3o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> <20181203101400.ua4s7jlhaxoeyp3o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:20:27 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Mon, Dec 03, 2018 at 10:48:08AM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > So, maybe the proper fix is > > > > | data-missing | 404, 409 | > > > > And then you hope that different implementors will come to the same > conclusions when to return 404 or 409. I have some doubts that this > will work well... Yes, I started to write that we also need additional text to explain this. But that would probably be too much for an errata. > Are there implementations that return 404 for data-missing today? I'm pretty sure that all implementations return 404 if someone tries to DELETE a non-existing resource, which in NETCONF would be a "data-missing" reply to an edit-config. But it is not quite clear if the table in section 7 of RFC 8040 is supposed to be used in this case... /martin > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > From nobody Mon Dec 3 02:27:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BDD130E19 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:27:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0XN7LwzUvjzr for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 768CC12875B for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 1413B92DEE542 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:26:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:26:43 +0000 Received: from lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) by lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:26:43 +0000 Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1591.10 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:26:43 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.69]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 18:26:24 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" , "andy@yumaworks.com" , "kwatsen@juniper.net" , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "warren@kumari.net" , "mjethanandani@gmail.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) Thread-Index: AQHUis0fOWI85JR8KUeCGWx7iiB8pKVsL8uAgACRE7D//34CAIAAjuzg Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:26:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20181203055737.B72D1B8122E@rfc-editor.org> <20181203.095409.224403340529984673.mbj@tail-f.com> <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:27:02 -0000 LS0tLS3pgq7ku7bljp/ku7YtLS0tLQ0K5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBNYXJ0aW4gQmpvcmtsdW5kIFttYWls dG86bWJqQHRhaWwtZi5jb21dIA0K5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDE45bm0MTLmnIgz5pelIDE3OjQ4 DQrmlLbku7bkuro6IFFpbiBXdQ0K5oqE6YCBOiByZmMtZWRpdG9yQHJmYy1lZGl0b3Iub3JnOyBh bmR5QHl1bWF3b3Jrcy5jb207IGt3YXRzZW5AanVuaXBlci5uZXQ7IGliYWdkb25hQGdtYWlsLmNv bTsgd2FycmVuQGt1bWFyaS5uZXQ7IG1qZXRoYW5hbmRhbmlAZ21haWwuY29tOyBuZXRjb25mQGll dGYub3JnDQrkuLvpopg6IFJlOiBbVGVjaG5pY2FsIEVycmF0YSBSZXBvcnRlZF0gUkZDODA0MCAo 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eWluZyBQYXJ0eSAgICAgOiBJRVNHDQo+ID4gDQo= From nobody Mon Dec 3 02:29:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B743012875B for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:29:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RETX_ZPeHvdX for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C641130E4A for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:29:11 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with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 18:29:02 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Martin Bjorklund , "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" CC: "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "warren@kumari.net" , "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) Thread-Index: AQHUis0fOWI85JR8KUeCGWx7iiB8pKVsL8uAgACRE7D//34CAIAABzoAgAABxoCAAIhIIA== Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:29:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> <20181203101400.ua4s7jlhaxoeyp3o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20181203.112021.415049598342701506.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20181203.112021.415049598342701506.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:29:14 -0000 LS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IE1hcnRpbiBCam9ya2x1bmQgW21haWx0bzptYmpA dGFpbC1mLmNvbV0gDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxOMTqMTLUwjPI1SAxODoyMA0KytW8/sjLOiBqLnNj aG9lbndhZWxkZXJAamFjb2JzLXVuaXZlcnNpdHkuZGUNCrOty806IFFpbiBXdTsgaWJhZ2RvbmFA Z21haWwuY29tOyBuZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnOyB3YXJyZW5Aa3VtYXJpLm5ldDsgcmZjLWVkaXRv ckByZmMtZWRpdG9yLm9yZw0K1vfM4jogUmU6IFtOZXRjb25mXSBbVGVjaG5pY2FsIEVycmF0YSBS ZXBvcnRlZF0gUkZDODA0MCAoNTU2NSkNCg0KSnVlcmdlbiBTY2hvZW53YWVsZGVyIDxqLnNjaG9l bndhZWxkZXJAamFjb2JzLXVuaXZlcnNpdHkuZGU+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiBPbiBNb24sIERlYyAwMywg MjAxOCBhdCAxMDo0ODowOEFNICswMTAwLCBNYXJ0aW4gQmpvcmtsdW5kIHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+IA0K PiA+IFNvLCBtYXliZSB0aGUgcHJvcGVyIGZpeCBpcw0KPiA+IA0KPiA+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg 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autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SqyPgvaAXCcl for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5429D126C7E for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (h-39-108.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [213.136.39.108]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 869431AE0403; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 11:38:12 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:38:12 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181203.113812.958331272714674182.mbj@tail-f.com> To: bill.wu@huawei.com Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, andy@yumaworks.com, kwatsen@juniper.net, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 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X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA329124BE5 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:41:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l8oH46fbRQjo for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4952130E4D for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 02:41:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 9C7D01821356; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 11:49:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.122]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EE81E1820056; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 11:49:48 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Martin Bjorklund Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, warren@kumari.net, netconf@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20181203101400.ua4s7jlhaxoeyp3o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20181203055737.B72D1B8122E@rfc-editor.org> <20181203.095409.224403340529984673.mbj@tail-f.com> <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> <20181203101400.ua4s7jlhaxoeyp3o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:41:19 +0100 Message-ID: <87wooq3nao.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 10:41:33 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > On Mon, Dec 03, 2018 at 10:48:08AM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> >> So, maybe the proper fix is >> >> | data-missing | 404, 409 | >> > > And then you hope that different implementors will come to the same > conclusions when to return 404 or 409. I have some doubts that this > will work well... data-missing is a misleading error tag, if it is used for validity problem. > > Are there implementations that return 404 for data-missing today? Yes, JetConf returns 404 if the client attempts to delete a non-existent resource. An edit leading to invalid data doesn't apply to JetConf because validation is only performed at commit, i.e. not after every edit. Lada > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Dec 3 12:40:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DFF712F1AC for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 12:40:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kSD0HOcc-np4 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 12:40:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1C76128A6E for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 12:40:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 73D6DB813BC; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 12:40:29 -0800 (PST) To: andy@yumaworks.com, mbj@tail-f.com, kwatsen@juniper.net, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, kwatsen@juniper.net, mjethanandani@gmail.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: mbj@tail-f.com, netconf@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20181203204029.73D6DB813BC@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 12:40:29 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5566) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 20:40:39 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8040, "RESTCONF Protocol". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5566 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Martin Björklund Section: B.3.2 Original Text ------------- "player" : { "gap" : 0.5 } Corrected Text -------------- "player" : { "gap" : "0.5" } Notes ----- The quoted text occurs twice; p 128 and p 130. The leaf "gap" is defined as type decimal64 in A.1. According to RFC 7951, section 6.1, a decimal64 type is represented as a string in JSON. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18) -------------------------------------- Title : RESTCONF Protocol Publication Date : January 2017 Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund, K. Watsen Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Network Configuration Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Mon Dec 3 22:28:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86ACD127B4C; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 22:28:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org, Mahesh Jethanandani , Bert Wijnen , Bert Wijnen , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154390493154.31734.13025584839857369253.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 22:28:51 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 06:28:52 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- First off, thanks for this clear and considered document and design; it really lays out the scenario of applicability and the functionality quite well. I just have a couple lingering places that we might want to nail down a little bit tighter... (1) SSH key formats The module in Section 7.3 says: leaf-list ssh-host-key { type binary; description "The binary public key data for this SSH key, as specified by RFC 4253, Section 6.6, i.e.: string certificate or public key format identifier byte[n] key/certificate data."; reference "RFC 4253: The Secure Shell (SSH) Transport Layer Protocol"; but RFC 4523 Section 6.6 says: The key type MUST always be explicitly known (from algorithm negotiation or some other source). It is not normally included in the key blob. Certificates and public keys are encoded as follows: string certificate or public key format identifier byte[n] key/certificate data How is the key type known for the SZTP usage? (2) Privilege escalation by design There's text in Section 2.1 (and, really, throughout) that indicates that a device being boostrap should allow a trusted bootstrap server to behave as (i.e., supply) a trust anchor for verifying a different service. In some sense this is elevating an EE cert to a CA cert, and I had hoped to see some discussion of this escalation in the security considerations. (Same for the owner cert, though there's a stronger argument that the owner should be considered fully privileged here.) (3) Nonce length Section 7.3 describes the nonce leaf: leaf nonce { type binary { length "8..32"; There is probably some discussion to be had about the minimum nonce length (not necessarily in the document itself). Do you have a pointer handy to previous disucsions or do we need to have it now? (I do see that this is just following RFC 8366, so hopefully this is an easy question.) (4) OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT repeated instances (In Section 8.1.) I think I may just be misunderstanding things here, but aren't As the list of URIs may exceed the maximum allowed length of a single DHCPv4 option (255 octets), the client MUST implement [RFC3396], allowing the URI list to be split across a number of OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT option instances. and The DHCPv4 server MAY include a single instance of Option OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT in DHCP messages it sends. Servers MUST NOT send more than one instance of the OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT option. in conflict about sending more than one instance of OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Should we consider recommending AuthEnvelopedData throughout instead of just EnvelopedData? TLS and CMS are probably good enough about adding context in their signatures (well, provided modern versions are used) that we don't get too much heartburn about reusing the same key directly for both zerotouch decryption and TLS client certificates, but it's generally the sort of thing that we frown upon. I a little bit wonder if we want references for TLS and/or HTTP client authentication. Section 2.5 of RFC 8040 might be enough (though it is of course not citing TLS 1.3). (Are there generic RESTCONF internationalization considerations? I see 8040 say "just use UTF-8", but is more needed?) Section 1.2 Network Management System (NMS): The acronym "NMS" is used throughout this document to refer to the deployment specific nit: deployment-specific (with hyphen) Section 2.1 Does RFC 8340 require a "ro" (or similar) to appear in the tree diagram? (Both here and in §2.2.) Section 3.2 Do we want to impose any ordering requirements on the certificate chain (e.g., owner cert must come first, each cert SHOULD certify the one immediately prior to it, etc.)? Section 3.4 Thank you for including the motivating text about sign-then-encrypt. I do wonder if it's worth saying anything about why the well-publicised security risks of mac-then-encrypt do not apply. (The authors of draft-campbell-sip-messaging-smime probably already have some text that could be used, but it doesn't seem to be in the public view yet.) Section 4.1 Mounting all filesystems found on removable devices can be a security risk, with intentionally malformed filesystem images causing system compromise in some cases. Section 4.2 I agree with Adam about registering "zerotouch" (and the name is perhaps overly generic?). I'm also not sure I properly understand the "zt-info"/zt-* TXT records' usage; would they need to be registered akin to draft-moonesamy-dnsop-special-use-label-registry? Section 5.3 This is the first time we talk about "serial number" as device identity; maybe a forward-reference is in order? Does the device have any reason to track whether the incoming artifact is encrypted (whether at the CMS layer or the transport layer)? I can't think of one, but sometimes this is useful information in other settings. If the zero touch information artifact contains onboarding information, and trust-state is FALSE, the device MUST exit the recursive algorithm (as this is not allowed, see the figure above), returning to the bootstrapping sequence described in Section 5.2. Otherwise, the device MUST attempt to process the onboarding information as described in Section 5.6. In either case, success or failure, the device MUST exit the recursive algorithm, returning to the bootstrapping sequence described in Section 5.2, the only difference being in how it responds to the "Able to bootstrap from any source?" conditional described in the figure in the section. Does this "either case" refer to just the processing of onboarding information, or the exit vs. attempt to process cases? (I assume the former, but perhaps some editorial work is in order.) If the zero touch information artifact is signed, and the device is able to validate the signed data using the algorithm described in Section 5.4, then the device MUST set trust-state to TRUE; otherwise, if the device is unable to validate the signed data, the device MUST set trust-state to FALSE. Note, this is worded to cover the special case when signed data is returned even from a trusted bootstrap server. Having read Section 5.4, I'm still unsure where the special handling for this special case is described. Section 5.5 Processing redirect information is straightforward, the device sequentially steps through the list of provided bootstrap servers until it can find one it can bootstrap from. nit: I think this is a comma splice. Section 5.6 Regardless the reporting-level indicated by the bootstrap server, the device MAY send progress reports beyond the mandatory ones specified for the given reporting level. nit: "Regardless of" When the onboarding information is obtained from an untrusted bootstrap server, the device MUST NOT send any progress reports to the bootstrap server. I'm not sure if I would want a parenthetical "(that is, the onboarding information was authenticated at the CMS layer)", but I would think about adding one. The device MUST parse the provided onboarding information document, to extract values used in subsequent steps. Whether using a stream- based parser or not, if there is an error when parsing the onboarding This line makes me consider the scenario where a stream-based parser is used with a trusted bootstrap server and no CMS-layer signature. At the TLS layer, a truncation attack by the network is possible, and if truncation is not detectable at the application layer, the device could end up misconfigured with neither party aware (unless there's an additional response or something that I'm forgetting about). I think that for the XML and JSON formats we know and love, truncation would make for a malformed stream due to the outermost scope container, but please correct me if I'm wrong. There are probably some security considerations to mention w.r.t. any future new encodings of this data model, though. * Most steps are atomic. For instance, when a commit fails, it is expected to have no impact on the configuration. Similarly, if the error occurs when executing a script, the script will gracefully exit. As a reader it's hard to tell if this is giving guidance to script authors or consumers. Section 6.2 "base64encodedvalue==" is pretty cute, though maybe we could add some trailing numbers to provide different values for the different fields? Section 6.3 The YANG module boilerplate is still on the RFC 2119 version of BCP 14 (not RFC 8174). Section 7.2 If we're going to say "and receives signed data in the response", maybe we could actually give an example that shows the (base64'd) CMS structure that corresponds to the signature? Not necessarily the whole payload, but enough to see the outer structure at least... Section 7.3 The YANG module boilerplate is still on the RFC 2119 version of BCP 14 (not RFC 8174). enum "boot-image-installed-rebooting" { description "Indicates that the device successfully installed a new boot image and is about to reboot. After sending this progress type, the device is not expected to access the bootstrap server again."; Is this just scoped to the current connection/session? (As opposed to "bootstrap-complete", which probably is a global statement.) container trust-anchor-certs { [...] The CMS MUST contain only a single chain of certificates. The device's end-entity certificate MUST only authenticate to last intermediate CA certificate listed in the chain. I'm not sure whether "authenticate to" means that the CA cert directly certifies or is the trust anchor. Could we maybe use language like "directly certifies the [next|previous]" certificate? Also, the split of references of RFC 6187 for trust-anchor-certs but RFCs 5280 and 5652 for trust-anchor-cert seems unusual, since potentially all three would be relevant for both nodes, if I understand correctly. Section 9.1 At this point draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp exists, though I don't know whether it's appropriate to be citing it yet. Section 9.6 There is perhaps some room for discussion of the consequences of the device telling the bootstrapping server whether the device thinks the connection is trusted, in that it gives an attacker information about the target. (Granted, it does not seem like much information, but it might be cleaner to define the semantics of the node as being whether the client would like the server to sign its responses at the application layer, which need not have complete overlap with whether the client considers the server to be trusted. Section 9.8 Does recommending frequent private key refreshes actually help in environments where revocation is unusable (i.e., by virtue of not having reliable time)? (If not, perhaps that caveat should be more explicit here, even though it is mentioned in Section 9.1 already.) Section 9.10 I would suggest also mentioning the (lack of) mitigations possible if the operator does not trust all the pre-configured authorities designated by the manufacturers. Section 9.11 revealing (e.g., network topology, firewall policies, etc.). It is RECOMMENDED that operators encrypt the bootstrapping data when its contents are considered sensitive, even to the administrators of a bootstrap server. I don't understand what is meant by "even to the administrators of a bootstrap server"? Section 9.12 nit: the last word is "revoked". Section 9.13 Implementations should be aware that signed bootstrapping data only protects the data from modification, the contents are still visible to others. [...] nit: this is a comma splice This information should be considered sensitive and precautions should be taken to protect it (e.g., encrypt artifact with device public key). nit: I think it's more conventional to "encrypt to" a public key than "encrypt with" one. Section C.3 We could perhaps recommend ecdsa-sha2-* keys instead of ssh-rsa keys. 4. Otherwise, if redirect information is found, the device iterates through the list of specified bootstrap servers, checking to see if it has bootstrapping data for the device. [...] The "it" is perhaps ambiguous; I would suggest "each server in turn". 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14.03.0415.000; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 17:25:37 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Andy Bierman , Netconf Thread-Topic: [Netconf] comments on draft-wu-netconf-restconf-factory-restore-03 Thread-Index: AQHUimld5kZN4e5FPUqSBuroEQ0zmKVv3jzw Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 09:25:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9B17C265nkgeml513mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] comments on draft-wu-netconf-restconf-factory-restore-03 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2018 09:25:48 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9B17C265nkgeml513mbschi_ Content-Type: 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from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83CAA130DF9 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 01:35:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A555FA7; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:35:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id etdxHshBpEXs; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:35:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:35:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701B920043; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:35:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ykVrnoX2fxt7; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:35:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D3042003F; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:35:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:35:56 +0100 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 43B8C300493A3B; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:35:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:35:55 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Qin Wu CC: Andy Bierman , Netconf Message-ID: <20181205093555.f4qhytkuyq4bytpn@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Qin Wu , Andy Bierman , Netconf References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] comments on draft-wu-netconf-restconf-factory-restore-03 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2018 09:36:06 -0000 On Wed, Dec 05, 2018 at 09:25:38AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > > Q2) leaf-list of datastores to reset > > Setting specific datastores to factory default is complex and dangerous. > It is unlikely a server will support all possible combinations. > A simple RPC to return the entire server to factory default is much easier to use > and implement. Vendors can add input parameters to support their variants. > > [Qin]: in most case, we just return entire server to factory default, however for dynamic config, we believe in most case it will be set to empty which is different from other datastore. > In earlier version, we consider to use choice case, allows default-allow-all case, if this address your comment, we can go with this. > I guess I am with Andy here. Let the device decide what it takes to restart the factory default. If there is a dynamic datastore that needs to be cleared, the device will do this. Why would a management application need to know the internals of a reset to factory defaults operation? > Q4) why no retrieval without NMDA, factory-default-as-datastore feature? > > [Qin]: talking with Balazs, we think in some cases, operation can be used without datastore. > > It would be useful to know what will happen if is invoked > by retrieving the contents of the factory config. This is not possible if > the datastore feature is not supported. I suggest another RPC > > rpc get-factory-defaults { > if-feature "not factory-default-as-datastore"; > output { > anydata data; > } > } I am generally not a big an of get-* and set-*/edit-* operations that replicate something for which we already have a solution in place. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Dec 5 10:21:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E4C1276D0; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:21:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alexey Melnikov To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org, Mahesh Jethanandani , Bert Wijnen , Bert Wijnen , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154403409772.31942.18387130156502248943.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2018 10:21:37 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2018 18:21:38 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for a well written document, it was a pleasure to read. I have a small list of issues that I would like to discuss before recommending approval of this document: In Section 5.3: If the zero touch information artifact contains redirect information, the device MUST, within limits of how many recursive loops the device allows, process the redirect information as described in Section 5.5. This is the recursion step, it will cause the device to reenter this algorithm, but this time the data source will definitely be a bootstrap server, as that is all redirect information is able to redirect a device to. I think you need to specify a "max redirect" value in order to prevent intentional or unintentional misconfigurations. Without such limit it is trivial to introduce denial-of-service attack on naive device implementations. 2) 10.3. The SMI Security for S/MIME CMS Content Type Registry IANA is kindly requested to add two entries in the "SMI Security for S/MIME CMS Content Type" registry (1.2.840.113549.1.9.16.1), with values as follows: Decimal Description References ------- -------------------------------------- ---------- TBD1 id-ct-zerotouchInformationXML [RFCXXXX] TBD2 id-ct-zerotouchInformationJSON [RFCXXXX] id-ct-zerotouchInformationXML indicates that the "zerotouch- information" is encoded using XML. id-ct-zerotouchInformationJSON indicates that the "zerotouch-information" is encoded using JSON. You define these values, but they are not used anywhere in the document. It looks like you intended for this to be used in several places, for example: 3.1. Zero Touch Information When the zero touch information artifact is unsigned, as it might be when communicated over trusted channels, the CMS structure's top-most content type MUST be one of the OIDs described in Section 10.3, or the OID id-data (1.2.840.113549.1.7.1), in which case the encoding (JSON, XML, etc.) SHOULD be communicated externally. In either Did you intend to use the above OIDs here? case, the associated content is an octet string containing "zerotouch-information" data in the expected encoding. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 4.2. DNS Server To use a DNS server as a source of bootstrapping data, a device MAY perform a multicast DNS [RFC6762] query searching for the service "_zerotouch._tcp.local.". Alternatively the device MAY perform DNS- SD [RFC6763] via normal DNS operation, using the domain returned to it from the DHCP server; for example, searching for the service "_zerotouch._tcp.example.com". I agree with Adam that "zerotouch" much be a registered as service name, see Artifact to Resource Record Mapping: Zero Touch Information: Mapped to a TXT record called "zt-info" containing the base64-encoding of the binary artifact described in Section 3.1. Owner Certificate: Mapped to a TXT record called "zt-cert" containing the base64-encoding of the binary artifact described in Section 3.2. Ownership Voucher: Mapped to a TXT record called "zt-voucher" containing the base64-encoding of the binary artifact described in Section 3.3. So just to double check, these would be zt-info._zerotouch._tcp.example.com, etc? 8.1. DHCPv4 Zero Touch Option o bootstrap-server-list: A list of servers for the client to attempt contacting, in order to obtain further bootstrapping data, in the format shown in [common-field-encoding]. [common-field-encoding] in this and subsequent sections looks like a reference to Section 8.3. Please fix before publication, as this looks like an undefined reference. 8.3. Common Field Encoding Both of the DHCPv4 and DHCPv6 options defined in this section encode a list of bootstrap server URIs. The "URI" structure is an option that can contain multiple URIs (see [RFC7227], Section 5.7). bootstrap-server-list: This is confusing, because I believe the following is a single entry in the list, not the whole list syntax: +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | uri-length | URI | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ o uri-length: 2 octets long, specifies the length of the URI data. o URI: URI of zerotouch bootstrap server, using the HTTPS URI scheme defined in Section 2.7.2 of RFC7230. URI MUST be in form "https://[:]". So if I am correct above, please clarify this by changing "bootstrap-server-list:" to "bootstrap-server-list is a list of 1 or more items, each with the following syntax:" (Or something like this.) Also, "URI" deserve to be a Normative Reference, as it defines the generic syntax you are referring to. 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vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-12-06_01:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1812060012 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_dra?= =?utf-8?q?ft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 01:41:05 -0000 SGkgTWlyamEsDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgeW91ciByZXZpZXchDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGJlbG93IGZv ciByZXNwb25zZXMuDQoNCktlbnQgLy8gcHJpbmNpcGxlIGF1dGhvcg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0t 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YW06DQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0aHViLmNvbS9uZXRjb25mLXdnL3plcm8tdG91Y2gvY29tbWl0LzBl ODZlYzI1ZjBmODNjNDlkYzFlYzM3ZTJiOWYyMGJkZWM4NzRhNmYNCg0KVGhvdWdodHM/DQoNCktl bnQNCg0KDQoNCg0K From nobody Wed Dec 5 21:31:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1B1F13102A; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 21:31:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org, Mahesh Jethanandani , Bert Wijnen , Bert Wijnen , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154407429391.31910.328638998435122851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2018 21:31:33 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 05:31:34 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I support Adam's and Alexey's DISCUSS points. §1.2: I have a bit of discomfort in how the manufacturer/owner business model is encoded into this. In particular, is there any possibility of anonymous owners? How about secondary markets (i.e. transfer of a device between owners) without mediation by the manufacturer.)? But I see this is actually mentioned in the security considerations, so I don't really expect a change. §3.1, 4th paragraph: The first sentence is convoluted; please consider breaking it into multiple simpler sentences. - 6th paragraph: The first sentence is even more convoluted. §5.6, 10th paragraph: I'm not sure how to interpret "MUST try". That doesn't seem verifiable. -- first bullet under "implementation notes": is "roll out of" the same things as "roll back"? §9.8: - 4th paragraph: Can the "best practices" be cited or described? Otherwise, the normative "RECOMMENDED" seems pretty vague. (Or are the next few sentences intended to define those practices? -5th paragraph: Paragraph is hard to parse. From nobody Wed Dec 5 21:51:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70CBE130DF2; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 21:51:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Suresh Krishnan To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org, Mahesh Jethanandani , Bert Wijnen , Bert Wijnen , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154407548645.31858.6036268091969542377.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2018 21:51:26 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 05:51:26 -0000 Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Section 8.1 This should be easy to fix but this text about the cardinality of the option "Servers MUST NOT send more than one instance of the OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT option." is contradictory to the following recommendation to use RFC3396 for long URLs *which will certainly result* in multiple options being sent. I would like personally like this to be a qualified MUST NOT (e.g. MUST NOT except for the long URL case) but I leave it up to the authors and the sponsoring AD to figure out the best way forward. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Please update the DHCPv6 (RFC3315) references to correspond to RFC8415 (Section 18.2 mainly for the client behavior and Section 18.3 for the server behavior) as it has been obsoleted. * Thanks for using the DHCPv6 option guidelines properly for the option formats and cardinality. Greatly appreciated. From nobody Thu Dec 6 03:38:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC181130DDB; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 03:38:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FKV-R8Rw7BYY; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 03:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1390D12D4EA; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 03:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.228] ([80.159.240.8]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MT74k-1gx1WB0lJG-00S3j7; Thu, 06 Dec 2018 12:37:53 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.1 \(3445.101.1\)) From: ianfarrer@gmx.com In-Reply-To: <154407548645.31858.6036268091969542377.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 12:37:51 +0100 Cc: The IESG , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org, Bert Wijnen , netconf@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <128D9A3F-6ADD-4049-B086-9066C584BFF7@gmx.com> References: <154407548645.31858.6036268091969542377.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Suresh Krishnan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.101.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ZAcE5Cxw7A6S37F0U5CbDGKEVKVrjFCK9yhwsCvJjaIRqgmlOgG J/q4A/BDbdsUYgU6zVP3pmfSp9MiVroCJV3i6bPWGZ+7mv1TXoHOgghkXt0SJY8azSsh0MT 6HI8b3qTWNXqaH6XLyvQSW6HtiNUAqSY9g4qpLU5djBmcHIuRs8BTinGi4jx7PvhCsW42aK MhWes85qyC7tixim0Pzow== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:LRpxFm62rXM=:X/0OvAUhIgxVihlizG0HJc JgpHfUzVRRDN0GIf8xpmFNS1Ny9TiKv7coaHIQWHsAP9l2gLQmXK0sQ3igocLfyVsIU7LYU/6 4CAQ7BCqA0C5aug7byfurXu58pLKL+xHUeUDk2RdeqYKb6TdGi/ozyvlomp3/XWETHevU1KOA jkE/JRmkR5ENuZ7jVZlH9NJFb8pcBEg1LeuZtqqEfmgxmVr+DvPIsQvJ1p/nfpApDiDW4/SmP /FNaw4vJZh/1BRoSMMbyTuw0nRHIzZN3t1N5Nikvj/96IcpWrASDn3qGiEwGpPMu28adywEN9 9Kmr0+TUCfmKYWHB1PcQEgUDSeU9p0nEjipo0p15/uUSsePdazggE11251w1qVBR82DhajhCJ N81t7mtW6bAjcZTFrUp451MdnNWKGj9qWVibYs2zgMPSXJH8AFz1FjkO1LdKlHQfUfZAG2vIk IphsJmJ4V7aojykOcSYwawx9ESLS6XVAWR3V0uuB8oi7kEsjtuv6/15bSxcmtnPhC2vMA0JXK 4JgpGvEnFgkq7GP9N/nf3jYpjO3h8xv0VeU3NaiqA6NlNjzLAM6HZH9U+Jz/AeMFBKasUvJML wEoSI+fw+G6sjOhzD6ntj3+tATnNBy995Rqzf/C4TbVdwBJMFoJzRwVC2J1E83cZ7Rr/ysY33 eINRUVfYNIAIfuEEn4zGa+9XeDtr4PPOuEZ3iccsXKnEKK3W2HXsgWl73kMTDeXxeWeq1LCwz x9UFtSwSC6mJ1NR4KXvjpcBqAisdqTydCdrQ/M03ATCaoNEWOH04V1VFsJz5gusEnuLiq5hhV sn4YlOCww2NeECJYqvJHDQMaR6uY0IWvv2O2zdObOc4ur87c3EWs11YpAIl8smDC9Jx7YR8ax XrnAK8xF/yteZ8Me8XnIWlaZqKQGdd8oUlBTsOe5i2G9x/ig7UeJy8TJbwCKvF Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 11:38:04 -0000 Hi Suresh, Please see inline below. Thanks, Ian > On 6. Dec 2018, at 06:51, Suresh Krishnan wrote: >=20 > Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: Discuss >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > * Section 8.1 >=20 > This should be easy to fix but this text about the cardinality of the = option >=20 > "Servers MUST NOT send more than one instance of the > OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT option." >=20 > is contradictory to the following recommendation to use RFC3396 for = long URLs > *which will certainly result* in multiple options being sent. I would = like > personally like this to be a qualified MUST NOT (e.g. MUST NOT except = for the > long URL case) but I leave it up to the authors and the sponsoring AD = to figure > out the best way forward. >=20 [if -Suggest that the following paragraph: Servers MUST NOT send more than one instance of the OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT option.=20 Is replaced with this text: --- The server=E2=80=99s DHCP message MUST contain only a single instance of = the OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT=E2=80=99s 'bootstrap-server-list=E2=80=99 field. However, the list of URIs in this field may exceed the maximum = allowed length of a single DHCPv4 option (per [RFC3396]). If the length of 'bootstrap-server-list=E2=80=99 is small enough to fit = into a single instance of OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT, the server MUST NOT send more than one instance of this option.=20 If the length of the 'bootstrap-server-list=E2=80=99 field is too large = to fit into a single option, then OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT MUST be split into multiple instances of the option according to the process described in = [RFC3396]. --- ] >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > * Please update the DHCPv6 (RFC3315) references to correspond to = RFC8415 > (Section 18.2 mainly for the client behavior and Section 18.3 for the = server > behavior) as it has been obsoleted. [if - Will update] >=20 > * Thanks for using the DHCPv6 option guidelines properly for the = option formats > and cardinality. Greatly appreciated. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Thu Dec 6 06:49:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C175112DDA3; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 06:49:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=cAT1nqx7; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=KlHha9/b Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XlYBj_oZx1G0; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 06:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E63B9126CB6; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 06:48:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0AECE8; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 09:48:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 06 Dec 2018 09:48:55 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm1; bh=C X2cbJ0AmqfFeZ+D8bCFio/rGngOMdj3HyTBgWHv8Dg=; b=cAT1nqx7Gdqlc+PER B+w1Zk2Vf9MjoonoqS9sEVESDGWYO9vpPyxONomzUY5H79J1QQ0S8nqZsWPqn7P9 G7/YvFyd4MhnFqxnm+3GxRaw5qbyMN3NrR3cRGn2sBikUJvyHPoJWAH7MvM2yuPd m5XPRPepbOy7VGm8kM5hquzQJPufi5rHSCdtUBw71/B/00G+4cQVOPNe4PNYyW3V EgI79pSCxZBwuIKmzjABJ3pQ6rfiadaZokPj/OOZRU9ZSN5575eXBs6WOBi3jddp DRrLacbtWRndlVnSniFzzB4PkQHUki/p1Ejh5sdRKeE48vf6206nbHuUnJlHhrOj +fEPw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=CX2cbJ0AmqfFeZ+D8bCFio/rGngOMdj3HyTBgWHv8 Dg=; b=KlHha9/bmSw1aCwTcaJEUaK9CVze0ONX/fJ5247xjIZ88/CO1z7zZWRuD wvsC31HLUND6SSlls2T4xhMcaQrEAlERo/DfL0LD4jrJLSxG3WT9ed4K8qkIC1Dx /yUTLl8W83DTPRv/yikDJ2w/se3LxT9I27p6aJC5fgKAbQbziskejPIRtZoJYaRh KSqZXCpM3q4cdfY2Mb8P5PI1om7rjlg5xev7EqlZYEOS6L++bK9muxgRoU/2CztG zFXvlp8A0Ch5mk7ZtYfEnGS4ZEGhRS2Vte0/xnQ9uwlpQN9WF9+YM+T/FSEPIBP6 thDBpSxJsNQ4U0XwKOsTtMllRjTzw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro5.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.89]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C714E103BA; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 09:48:53 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <2CA21316-CC9F-4B12-887C-2BDD52B1E778@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 09:48:50 -0500 Cc: "gen-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <73C290A8-FF67-4AA8-95E0-890B61BE178A@cooperw.in> References: <153967589866.9324.10694947169497875484@ietfa.amsl.com> <2CA21316-CC9F-4B12-887C-2BDD52B1E778@juniper.net> To: Kent Watsen , Roni Even X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 14:49:11 -0000 Roni, thanks for your review. Kent, thanks for your response. I entered = a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On Oct 16, 2018, at 12:38 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > Fixed the editorial nit in my local copy. >=20 > Thanks, > Kent >=20 >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > From: Roni Even > Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 3:45 AM > To: "gen-art@ietf.org" > Cc: "ietf@ietf.org" , = "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch.all@ietf.org" = , "netconf@ietf.org" = > Subject: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25 > Resent-From: > Resent-To: , , = , Mahesh Jethanandani , = , , Bert Wijnen = , Bert Wijnen , Mahesh = Jethanandani > Resent-Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 3:44 AM >=20 > Reviewer: Roni Even > Review result: Ready >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just > like any other last call comments. >=20 > For more information, please see the FAQ at >=20 > = . >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-?? > Reviewer: Roni Even > Review Date: 2018-10-16 > IETF LC End Date: 2018-10-22 > IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat >=20 > Summary: The document is ready for publication as Standard Track RFC >=20 > Major issues: >=20 > Minor issues: >=20 > Nits/editorial comments:=20 >=20 > 1. In the editorial note the change log is in appendix D and not A >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Thu Dec 6 07:08:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7326126DBF; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 07:08:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=kaloom.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1404.19; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 15:08:30 +0000 Received: from YTOPR0101MB1819.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::5166:4dc:8313:30d0]) by YTOPR0101MB1819.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::5166:4dc:8313:30d0%5]) with mapi id 15.20.1382.023; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 15:08:30 +0000 From: Suresh Krishnan To: Ian Farrer CC: The IESG , "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org" , Bert Wijnen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUjVgivfENKBoO50ifJIbnEFwFx6Vx0GcA Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 15:08:30 +0000 Message-ID: <731DA7D0-A355-41C5-9331-55DAD09A501E@kaloom.com> References: <154407548645.31858.6036268091969542377.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <128D9A3F-6ADD-4049-B086-9066C584BFF7@gmx.com> In-Reply-To: <128D9A3F-6ADD-4049-B086-9066C584BFF7@gmx.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 15:08:39 -0000 SGkgSWFuLA0KICBUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBxdWljayByZXNwb25zZS4gVGhlc2UgY2hhbmdlcyB3 b3JrIGZvciBtZS4gSSB3aWxsIGNsZWFyIGFzIHNvb24gYXMgdGhlIG5ldyByZXYgaGl0cy4NCg0K UmVnYXJkcw0KU3VyZXNoDQoNCj4gT24gRGVjIDYsIDIwMTgsIGF0IDY6MzcgQU0sIGlhbmZhcnJl ckBnbXguY29tIHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gSGkgU3VyZXNoLA0KPiANCj4gUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxp bmUgYmVsb3cuDQo+IA0KPiBUaGFua3MsDQo+IElhbg0KPiANCj4+IE9uIDYuIERlYyAyMDE4LCBh dCAwNjo1MSwgU3VyZXNoIEtyaXNobmFuIDxzdXJlc2hAa2Fsb29tLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+PiAN Cj4+IFN1cmVzaCBLcmlzaG5hbiBoYXMgZW50ZXJlZCB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGJhbGxvdCBwb3Np dGlvbiBmb3INCj4+IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0Y29uZi16ZXJvdG91Y2gtMjU6IERpc2N1c3MNCj4+ 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LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPj4gQ09NTUVOVDoNCj4+IC0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0NCj4+IA0KPj4gKiBQbGVhc2UgdXBkYXRlIHRoZSBESENQdjYgKFJGQzMzMTUpIHJl ZmVyZW5jZXMgdG8gY29ycmVzcG9uZCB0byBSRkM4NDE1DQo+PiAoU2VjdGlvbiAxOC4yIG1haW5s eSBmb3IgdGhlIGNsaWVudCBiZWhhdmlvciBhbmQgU2VjdGlvbiAxOC4zIGZvciB0aGUgc2VydmVy DQo+PiBiZWhhdmlvcikgYXMgaXQgaGFzIGJlZW4gb2Jzb2xldGVkLg0KPiANCj4gW2lmIC0gV2ls bCB1cGRhdGVdDQo+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiAqIFRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdXNpbmcgdGhlIERIQ1B2NiBvcHRp b24gZ3VpZGVsaW5lcyBwcm9wZXJseSBmb3IgdGhlIG9wdGlvbiBmb3JtYXRzDQo+PiBhbmQgY2Fy ZGluYWxpdHkuIEdyZWF0bHkgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZWQuDQo+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+IE5ldGNvbmYgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0DQo+PiBOZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFu L2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldGNvbmYNCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Dec 6 07:49:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AE06130DC6; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 07:49:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nnMJ1TAhbMy5; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 07:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71227130DFA; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 07:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ict-networks-2001-067c-10ec-5785-8000-0000-0000-0430.fwd-v6.ethz.ch ([2001:67c:10ec:5785:8000::430]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1gUvuO-0004Wp-CM; Thu, 06 Dec 2018 16:49:48 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 16:49:46 +0100 Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org" , "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9964AC41-9B1E-4348-94C8-C9CED80D9147@kuehlewind.net> References: <154360369395.27402.18143504350346119719.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1544111391;f26890c2; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gUvuO-0004Wp-CM Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_dra?= =?utf-8?q?ft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 15:49:54 -0000 Thanks! That helps! > Am 06.12.2018 um 02:40 schrieb Kent Watsen : >=20 > Hi Mirja, >=20 > Thanks for your review! > Please see below for responses. >=20 > Kent // principle author >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >> Thanks for this well-written doc. >>=20 >> One quick question which wasn't fully clear to me from the text >> in the doc: If onboarding fails at some point, is the device >> supposed to iterate over another bootstrapping source or stop >> completely? >=20 > The device is to never stop trying to bootstrap, even in case of > a failed attempt. The hope is that that the device's failed > attempts will be noticed and rectified by an administrator of > the operator's orchestrator/NMS system. >=20 > Checking the text to ensure this intent is conveyed, we find in > Section 5.3: >=20 > Otherwise, the device MUST attempt to process the onboarding > information as described in Section 5.6. In either case, success or > failure, the device MUST exit the recursive algorithm, returning to > the bootstrapping sequence described in Section 5.2, the only > difference being in how it responds to the "Able to bootstrap from > any source?" conditional described in the figure in the section. >=20 > So, in your case, it is a "failure" and thus the answer to the > conditional is "No". However, to your point, the current s5.2=20 > text says "Loop and/or wait for manual provisioning", which=20 > isn't quite right. I have fixed this in the Github commit=20 > link provided below. >=20 > Continuing checking the text, we also find in Section 5.6: >=20 > If the device encounters an error at any step, it MUST stop > processing the onboarding information and return to the = bootstrapping > sequence described in Section 5.2. In the context of a recursive > algorithm, the device MUST return to the enclosing loop, not back to > the very beginning. >=20 > Which I think is pretty good as is, though it might help to tack > onto the end of the last sentence ", thus allowing the logic to > attempt all possible bootstrapping options before starting over." > Thoughts? >=20 >=20 >=20 >> One minor comment: >> Maybe spell out TPM and provide a reference. >=20 > Fixed all three instances of "TPM". >=20 >=20 >=20 > Here is the Github commit for the above changes, as well as a > minor/unrelated RFC4408-reference issue reported by Adam: >=20 > = https://github.com/netconf-wg/zero-touch/commit/0e86ec25f0f83c49dc1ec37e2b= 9f20bdec874a6f >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 > Kent >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Thu Dec 6 08:40:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9F8130E81; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 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running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1gUxOQ-0002db-A7; Thu, 06 Dec 2018 18:24:54 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 18:24:52 +0100 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org" , The IESG , "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <154360369395.27402.18143504350346119719.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9964AC41-9B1E-4348-94C8-C9CED80D9147@kuehlewind.net> To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1544117097;92c00fcb; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gUxOQ-0002db-A7 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_dra?= =?utf-8?q?ft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:25:01 -0000 Hi Kent, sorry I didn=E2=80=99t read this as a question. However, looking at this = again, I actually think the text is pretty clear as it is and I must = have overlooked this on my first read. So I guess no further action = needed. Thanks for engaging! Mirja > Am 06.12.2018 um 17:40 schrieb Kent Watsen : >=20 >=20 > Hi Mirja, >=20 > I assume you're happy with the Github commit, but what about the = [uncommitted] proposal to add something like ", thus ensuring all = possible bootstrapping options are attempted before starting over." to = the end of the text in Section 5.6 discussed below? >=20 > Kent >=20 >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" > Date: Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 10:49 AM > To: Kent Watsen > Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org" = , "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" = , NETCONF Working Group > Subject: Re: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's No Objection on = draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with COMMENT) >=20 > Thanks! That helps! >=20 >=20 >> Am 06.12.2018 um 02:40 schrieb Kent Watsen : >>=20 >> Hi Mirja, >>=20 >> Thanks for your review! >> Please see below for responses. >>=20 >> Kent // principle author >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >>> Thanks for this well-written doc. >>>=20 >>> One quick question which wasn't fully clear to me from the text >>> in the doc: If onboarding fails at some point, is the device >>> supposed to iterate over another bootstrapping source or stop >>> completely? >>=20 >> The device is to never stop trying to bootstrap, even in case of >> a failed attempt. The hope is that that the device's failed >> attempts will be noticed and rectified by an administrator of >> the operator's orchestrator/NMS system. >>=20 >> Checking the text to ensure this intent is conveyed, we find in >> Section 5.3: >>=20 >> Otherwise, the device MUST attempt to process the onboarding >> information as described in Section 5.6. In either case, success or >> failure, the device MUST exit the recursive algorithm, returning to >> the bootstrapping sequence described in Section 5.2, the only >> difference being in how it responds to the "Able to bootstrap from >> any source?" conditional described in the figure in the section. >>=20 >> So, in your case, it is a "failure" and thus the answer to the >> conditional is "No". However, to your point, the current s5.2=20 >> text says "Loop and/or wait for manual provisioning", which=20 >> isn't quite right. I have fixed this in the Github commit=20 >> link provided below. >>=20 >> Continuing checking the text, we also find in Section 5.6: >>=20 >> If the device encounters an error at any step, it MUST stop >> processing the onboarding information and return to the = bootstrapping >> sequence described in Section 5.2. In the context of a recursive >> algorithm, the device MUST return to the enclosing loop, not back to >> the very beginning. >>=20 >> Which I think is pretty good as is, though it might help to tack >> onto the end of the last sentence ", thus allowing the logic to >> attempt all possible bootstrapping options before starting over." >> Thoughts? >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> One minor comment: >>> Maybe spell out TPM and provide a reference. >>=20 >> Fixed all three instances of "TPM". >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Here is the Github commit for the above changes, as well as a >> minor/unrelated RFC4408-reference issue reported by Adam: >>=20 >> = https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__github.com_netconf-= 2Dwg_zero-2Dtouch_commit_0e86ec25f0f83c49dc1ec37e2b9f20bdec874a6f&d=3DDwIF= Ag&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3D9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH= 7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=3DtdPa_tMXTHo9_nEeMuGHsRyflARVGiqV5uz_oxwxZcg&s= =3DIUawZTPKc9rN7G2W3eQO0S-BxaBUz8M1jWwj1GaprCI&e=3D >>=20 >> Thoughts? >>=20 >> Kent >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Dec 7 06:36:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48510128CF2; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 06:36:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mX0eDbsA-fz0; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 06:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F17D1252B7; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 06:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.228] ([80.159.240.8]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LcWSI-1hDifd38uE-00jrjs; Fri, 07 Dec 2018 15:35:55 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.1 \(3445.101.1\)) From: ianfarrer@gmx.com In-Reply-To: <154390493154.31734.13025584839857369253.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 15:35:53 +0100 Cc: The IESG , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org, Bert Wijnen , netconf@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <959B684C-27AF-49FA-93F0-5ED675EC0D66@gmx.com> References: <154390493154.31734.13025584839857369253.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Benjamin Kaduk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.101.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:jYMPq4ObG/0FqjOBvBYXUxPVB3MK3mtxtaM5rqfw8mNfr3wRVn3 qTeebSBmbFL8XaIlku6oqZsl1kMnbZ50WZuoXQtlXpntCUZ6mI0fpA+zYb51e+MW7fFyiyE sfEGKupvobEwxe7SVVMVh+bYQedMAxG8UPlFw5GJJwWo2Y5EuwBcn8zBfC6eJeMo/vgJpEO 3umQSN4Ss+D+9N8JMorfQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:QDdQNOlj9iI=:nHxAvaW9VWaoMoEXKy3jcu 474TUI/WjWgoCMvJ/nnVaoC8GGkJ22N9D9IxyG+lpUd4mGdM3ShZz2xondGZh6HyM4eXnNXTX esS8QuyYObh9atXvjGAcIWlAfUBuPu2qyWWFq6AAjjFicpNgjvcyRObRP+DDAzJMo8+PMl+y3 C2pcDyv46Pip+EOVt9hj5G0qTY65GJF87z+Z//SmxR8TOlpxRn47tyycUTqvBLeB4YjZNlM3t AljXPkwwRpRPGCvMgkvi6erYdw28MjqTZs5oVmcdMJGuNQsfPY3ADwljCB13H4oRUZlm8bXmD 7OYHH/H/wVKHQSXGvLfhU+0O2wb3uouY4IvHPUynfligqpladJOJUzcLZ+SlDqqZiBzhWSXyX mIOwB7ON/vvjHSakGU67F2nWBFMgPaS9el7Mbfwujh6yErHsUlZBxCL/XbY76HruzD6iS2w5b Ls+VGLAe68a7WzihUK/2KXl2yThHKVGXgQU6fQLIPVYLv+0C9cJXWMDxFBs9Z4ONhMktSt54q lKnr07tvf0Z3t1lo17BrVBU1uBuIho4adXWAJ63Pb4U8l794tfD7N06enBixP2QHH0Lyx4E3i EfyWBNGARxtCl8n5PRKmyDSwb+It7yR19QzNgcPlrPzYD3rerCPw4lp/X//FHhS4jXBDT+nuw vp4pqv9REinzAOkYE07TnEsU0t8NlkhWyTeUwM5pl5q1YETgx5Kbr9E15keIWf7FFUaKzx9K0 KHrHQ6IheQdYnIsGUzn9EecvsmlI8Jx9stvwOMa4OIT2X6IT5cgpHQH1rvy96ogtNun44sDSq yhntpgjPMC4VZtKZfoFMXzfQRkpkyE6qzzFgT+c8ktqToVc9Hkomt+1KpaTPMQ7EBzAUQlmXo dBGfGf9xs/uUWMTCkRgMnZYB5k2OyVWXL1h8nhddmejLyRJ17jsPCeifbEl+ki Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2018 14:36:07 -0000 Hi Ben, Thanks for the comments. Please see below, specifically regarding your point on the DHCP section (8.1). Thanks, Ian > On 4. Dec 2018, at 07:28, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: >=20 > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: Discuss >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > First off, thanks for this clear and considered document and design; = it > really lays out the scenario of applicability and the functionality = quite > well. I just have a couple lingering places that we might want to = nail > down a little bit tighter... >=20 > (1) SSH key formats >=20 > The module in Section 7.3 says: >=20 > leaf-list ssh-host-key { > type binary; > description > "The binary public key data for this SSH key, as > specified by RFC 4253, Section 6.6, i.e.: >=20 > string certificate or public key format > identifier > byte[n] key/certificate data."; > reference > "RFC 4253: The Secure Shell (SSH) Transport Layer > Protocol"; >=20 > but RFC 4523 Section 6.6 says: >=20 > The key type MUST always be explicitly known (from algorithm > negotiation or some other source). It is not normally included in > the key blob. >=20 > Certificates and public keys are encoded as follows: >=20 > string certificate or public key format identifier > byte[n] key/certificate data >=20 > How is the key type known for the SZTP usage? >=20 > (2) Privilege escalation by design >=20 > There's text in Section 2.1 (and, really, throughout) that indicates = that a > device being boostrap should allow a trusted bootstrap server to = behave as > (i.e., supply) a trust anchor for verifying a different service. In = some > sense this is elevating an EE cert to a CA cert, and I had hoped to = see > some discussion of this escalation in the security considerations. = (Same > for the owner cert, though there's a stronger argument that the owner > should be considered fully privileged here.) >=20 > (3) Nonce length >=20 > Section 7.3 describes the nonce leaf: >=20 > leaf nonce { > type binary { > length "8..32"; >=20 > There is probably some discussion to be had about the minimum nonce = length > (not necessarily in the document itself). Do you have a pointer handy = to > previous disucsions or do we need to have it now? > (I do see that this is just following RFC 8366, so hopefully this is = an > easy question.) >=20 > (4) OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT repeated instances >=20 > (In Section 8.1.) >=20 > I think I may just be misunderstanding things here, but aren't >=20 > As the list of URIs may exceed the maximum allowed length of a = single > DHCPv4 option (255 octets), the client MUST implement [RFC3396], > allowing the URI list to be split across a number of > OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT option instances. >=20 > and >=20 > The DHCPv4 server MAY include a single instance of Option > OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT in DHCP messages it sends. Servers = MUST > NOT send more than one instance of the OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT > option. >=20 > in conflict about sending more than one instance of > OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT? >=20 [if - Yes, the current text is not consistent between client and server. = I propose replacing the server paragraph with the following: The server=E2=80=99s DHCP message MUST contain only a single = instance of the OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT=E2=80=99s = 'bootstrap-server-list=E2=80=99 field. However, the list of URIs in this field may exceed the = maximum allowed length of a single DHCPv4 option (per [RFC3396]). If the length of 'bootstrap-server-list=E2=80=99 is small = enough to fit into a single instance of OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT, the server = MUST NOT send more than one instance of this option. If the length of the 'bootstrap-server-list=E2=80=99 field is = too large to fit into a single option, then OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT = MUST be split into multiple instances of the option according to the = process described in [RFC3396]. ] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Should we consider recommending AuthEnvelopedData throughout instead = of > just EnvelopedData? >=20 > TLS and CMS are probably good enough about adding context in their > signatures (well, provided modern versions are used) that we don't get = too > much heartburn about reusing the same key directly for both zerotouch > decryption and TLS client certificates, but it's generally the sort of > thing that we frown upon. >=20 > I a little bit wonder if we want references for TLS and/or HTTP client > authentication. Section 2.5 of RFC 8040 might be enough (though it is = of > course not citing TLS 1.3). >=20 > (Are there generic RESTCONF internationalization considerations? I = see > 8040 say "just use UTF-8", but is more needed?) >=20 > Section 1.2 >=20 > Network Management System (NMS): The acronym "NMS" is used > throughout this document to refer to the deployment specific >=20 > nit: deployment-specific (with hyphen) >=20 > Section 2.1 >=20 > Does RFC 8340 require a "ro" (or similar) to appear in the tree = diagram? > (Both here and in =C2=A72.2.) >=20 > Section 3.2 >=20 > Do we want to impose any ordering requirements on the certificate = chain > (e.g., owner cert must come first, each cert SHOULD certify the one > immediately prior to it, etc.)? >=20 > Section 3.4 >=20 > Thank you for including the motivating text about sign-then-encrypt. = I do > wonder if it's worth saying anything about why the well-publicised = security > risks of mac-then-encrypt do not apply. (The authors of > draft-campbell-sip-messaging-smime probably already have some text = that > could be used, but it doesn't seem to be in the public view yet.) >=20 > Section 4.1 >=20 > Mounting all filesystems found on removable devices can be a security = risk, > with intentionally malformed filesystem images causing system = compromise in > some cases. >=20 > Section 4.2 >=20 > I agree with Adam about registering "zerotouch" (and the name is = perhaps > overly generic?). >=20 > I'm also not sure I properly understand the "zt-info"/zt-* TXT = records' > usage; would they need to be registered akin to > draft-moonesamy-dnsop-special-use-label-registry? >=20 > Section 5.3 >=20 > This is the first time we talk about "serial number" as device = identity; > maybe a forward-reference is in order? >=20 > Does the device have any reason to track whether the incoming artifact = is > encrypted (whether at the CMS layer or the transport layer)? I can't = think > of one, but sometimes this is useful information in other settings. >=20 > If the zero touch information artifact contains onboarding > information, and trust-state is FALSE, the device MUST exit the > recursive algorithm (as this is not allowed, see the figure above), > returning to the bootstrapping sequence described in Section 5.2. > Otherwise, the device MUST attempt to process the onboarding > information as described in Section 5.6. In either case, success or > failure, the device MUST exit the recursive algorithm, returning to > the bootstrapping sequence described in Section 5.2, the only > difference being in how it responds to the "Able to bootstrap from > any source?" conditional described in the figure in the section. >=20 > Does this "either case" refer to just the processing of onboarding > information, or the exit vs. attempt to process cases? (I assume the > former, but perhaps some editorial work is in order.) >=20 > If the zero touch information artifact is signed, and the device is > able to validate the signed data using the algorithm described in > Section 5.4, then the device MUST set trust-state to TRUE; = otherwise, > if the device is unable to validate the signed data, the device MUST > set trust-state to FALSE. Note, this is worded to cover the special > case when signed data is returned even from a trusted bootstrap > server. >=20 > Having read Section 5.4, I'm still unsure where the special handling = for > this special case is described. >=20 > Section 5.5 >=20 > Processing redirect information is straightforward, the device > sequentially steps through the list of provided bootstrap servers > until it can find one it can bootstrap from. >=20 > nit: I think this is a comma splice. >=20 > Section 5.6 >=20 > Regardless the > reporting-level indicated by the bootstrap server, the device MAY > send progress reports beyond the mandatory ones specified for the > given reporting level. >=20 > nit: "Regardless of" >=20 > When the onboarding information is obtained from an untrusted > bootstrap server, the device MUST NOT send any progress reports to > the bootstrap server. >=20 > I'm not sure if I would want a parenthetical "(that is, the onboarding > information was authenticated at the CMS layer)", but I would think = about > adding one. >=20 > The device MUST parse the provided onboarding information document, > to extract values used in subsequent steps. Whether using a stream- > based parser or not, if there is an error when parsing the = onboarding >=20 > This line makes me consider the scenario where a stream-based parser = is > used with a trusted bootstrap server and no CMS-layer signature. At = the > TLS layer, a truncation attack by the network is possible, and if > truncation is not detectable at the application layer, the device = could end > up misconfigured with neither party aware (unless there's an = additional > response or something that I'm forgetting about). I think that for = the XML > and JSON formats we know and love, truncation would make for a = malformed > stream due to the outermost scope container, but please correct me if = I'm > wrong. There are probably some security considerations to mention = w.r.t. > any future new encodings of this data model, though. >=20 > * Most steps are atomic. For instance, when a commit fails, it > is expected to have no impact on the configuration. = Similarly, > if the error occurs when executing a script, the script will > gracefully exit. >=20 > As a reader it's hard to tell if this is giving guidance to script = authors > or consumers. >=20 > Section 6.2 >=20 > "base64encodedvalue=3D=3D" is pretty cute, though maybe we could add = some > trailing numbers to provide different values for the different fields? >=20 > Section 6.3 >=20 > The YANG module boilerplate is still on the RFC 2119 version of BCP 14 = (not > RFC 8174). >=20 > Section 7.2 >=20 > If we're going to say "and receives signed data in the response", = maybe we > could actually give an example that shows the (base64'd) CMS structure = that > corresponds to the signature? Not necessarily the whole payload, but > enough to see the outer structure at least... >=20 > Section 7.3 >=20 > The YANG module boilerplate is still on the RFC 2119 version of BCP 14 = (not > RFC 8174). >=20 > enum "boot-image-installed-rebooting" { > description > "Indicates that the device successfully installed > a new boot image and is about to reboot. After > sending this progress type, the device is not > expected to access the bootstrap server again."; >=20 > Is this just scoped to the current connection/session? > (As opposed to "bootstrap-complete", which probably is a global = statement.) >=20 > container trust-anchor-certs { > [...] > The CMS MUST contain only a single chain of > certificates. The device's end-entity certificate > MUST only authenticate to last intermediate CA > certificate listed in the chain. >=20 > I'm not sure whether "authenticate to" means that the CA cert directly > certifies or is the trust anchor. Could we maybe use language like > "directly certifies the [next|previous]" certificate? >=20 > Also, the split of references of RFC 6187 for trust-anchor-certs but = RFCs > 5280 and 5652 for trust-anchor-cert seems unusual, since potentially = all > three would be relevant for both nodes, if I understand correctly. >=20 > Section 9.1 >=20 > At this point draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp exists, though I don't = know > whether it's appropriate to be citing it yet. >=20 > Section 9.6 >=20 > There is perhaps some room for discussion of the consequences of the = device > telling the bootstrapping server whether the device thinks the = connection > is trusted, in that it gives an attacker information about the target. > (Granted, it does not seem like much information, but it might be = cleaner > to define the semantics of the node as being whether the client would = like > the server to sign its responses at the application layer, which need = not > have complete overlap with whether the client considers the server to = be > trusted. >=20 > Section 9.8 >=20 > Does recommending frequent private key refreshes actually help in > environments where revocation is unusable (i.e., by virtue of not = having > reliable time)? (If not, perhaps that caveat should be more explicit = here, > even though it is mentioned in Section 9.1 already.) >=20 > Section 9.10 >=20 > I would suggest also mentioning the (lack of) mitigations possible if = the > operator does not trust all the pre-configured authorities designated = by > the manufacturers. >=20 > Section 9.11 >=20 > revealing (e.g., network topology, firewall policies, etc.). It > is RECOMMENDED that operators encrypt the bootstrapping data when > its contents are considered sensitive, even to the administrators > of a bootstrap server. >=20 > I don't understand what is meant by "even to the administrators of a > bootstrap server"? >=20 > Section 9.12 >=20 > nit: the last word is "revoked". >=20 > Section 9.13 >=20 > Implementations should be aware that signed bootstrapping data only > protects the data from modification, the contents are still visible > to others. [...] >=20 > nit: this is a comma splice >=20 > This > information should be considered sensitive and precautions should be > taken to protect it (e.g., encrypt artifact with device public key). >=20 > nit: I think it's more conventional to "encrypt to" a public key than > "encrypt with" one. >=20 > Section C.3 >=20 > We could perhaps recommend ecdsa-sha2-* keys instead of ssh-rsa keys. >=20 > 4. Otherwise, if redirect information is found, the device iterates > through the list of specified bootstrap servers, checking to see > if it has bootstrapping data for the device. [...] >=20 > The "it" is perhaps ambiguous; I would suggest "each server in turn". >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Fri Dec 7 10:03:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 167A3130EA2 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 10:03:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.161 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.161 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.46, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) 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vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-12-08_01:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1812080023 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2018 02:46:22 -0000 SGkgQmVuamFtaW4sDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgeW91ciByZXZpZXchICBTZWUgYmVsb3cgZm9yIHJl c3BvbnNlcy4NCg0KSXQgdG9vayBtZSBxdWl0ZSBzb21lIHRpbWUgdG8gY29tcG9zZSB0aGlzIHJl 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IGFueSBncmVhdCByZWZlcmVuY2VzLiAgUkZDIDUyODAsIMKnOCwgNXRoIHBhcmFncmFwaCB0b3Vj aGVzIG9uIA0KaXQsIGJ1dCBub3QgdG8gYW55IGdyZWF0IGFmZmVjdC4gIEkgYWRkZWQgYSAiRm9y IGV4YW1wbGUsIiAoaW4gbXkgbG9jYWwgY29weSkgDQp0byBjbGFyaWZ5IHRoYXQgdGhlIGZvbGxv d2luZyBzZW50ZW5jZXMgcHJvdmlkZSBzb21lIHN1Z2dlc3Rpb25zLg0KDQoNCg0KPiAtNXRoIHBh cmFncmFwaDogUGFyYWdyYXBoIGlzIGhhcmQgdG8gcGFyc2UuDQoNCkFncmVlZC4gU2ltcGxpZmll ZC4NCg0KDQpUaGFua3MgYWdhaW4hDQpLZW50IA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Dec 11 07:52:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA311130DEC; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 07:52:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wHM1w1KOblfa; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 07:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3696B130DE9; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 07:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.228] ([80.159.240.8]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LtVLE-1hV4D52y4C-010qDz; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:52:23 +0100 From: ianfarrer@gmx.com Message-Id: <7DCF274C-963E-417B-8B0B-9024F42D200B@gmx.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_09E1A562-2E41-411C-A375-0FEC6FD5177E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.1 \(3445.101.1\)) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:52:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org" , "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen To: Alexey Melnikov References: <154403409772.31942.18387130156502248943.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.101.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:B+0I1FqoUIFnmF64EqSplEK6jy+rR0kygwEcneKzGDMYZ+O/Hab y/qc3ayN1RRZKtyiQaZJ23ljkqmM9mtRx8/YDX5JsMY0Vb0dS3UuCqOk47w++hvVMF+xDSf 2UVavTQmObkJCBhOMg7Dqw7SWp+5Pub3trny1CtqbwVz11y05DaXj01y+pE2eRUr4k8VtA/ bsb0Fq/Edfhvb+1kSK2kg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:pYr3hfFD0u8=:8JGy3VKIZQ/BLH5/AYJxrT /GfdMaTW698o35BnV3HxGKWitqB4bRudw6nvj0APB2/YZtLVQ8LHcVkkMiD3NcH38mLozhF+5 FB54cq638s6iA7sd1KDEuHYccI5aJZKTKe6X1eLXo3nuVGDtHkvQHTzoJLA+oSyp2F03oUuVO RgjkHN3iVFP6/9QewmpABmV/FjoViEYmxlFC9iipGloNWKAV4OnzSPDnUHCePOECRuixTawiE 78R9wkUgeGw2ONaxT7h9yFbCU+ZrCfluOiEX2IjuA4oSquZmCqEtEemi8Jj0xb97kUcvzaWZx /2bYTi/TlseItbkEABkVVneJBoydTItq3OZYe5TFWL9s4leulxQ2nc9hdjmm+lYzde3FEgSPC BguQM1hcUHK2fJ3N6VGZXm/IClS+FlKu5+rxxsJj+Z5ZVyFxuqjl5m2t4kBUKLlIpnOmwF82f 5aWCnQ205hLzsWXvzsccEtcHpy+kifH2+YKBJsYEJidMjiCuvfZ48Q5BdS5aVC/elcZEyQKwp i3EivajmNxzf6oGanK6NuiWCJlnVCH6XwBl+uZ7BfNPKKFHLNbQxbWTZ4zJuE6LlkhkIYxieg XLayNokDACCu8EHy3ty+ENlRAKBisaZONYsJ3SFKpSMpxJi9ChkC6knlxlD3oIzvGEntAoj+A CZwIhs4d23aKYT0AEYOJ2ntvTx/A6lOxeeTjgdLqxiz8X9C9Z4PmTFSWP5NSh2ZraApFP1Htf eY84B4zJDf3lub1AVhbPNhBT5iGiZnti9aCTAEq97PJM+C6EAPdrLU5klCuKqcEOA61EGCcUv hJUUHa2J4+Od5WbyvWbPSmYs1nUjwcLIYCLGmS/JFfgFeKbK7gBIOa9iAkQOC0jIueyvC8pjN gOj9iMyafm5fL/QC2pYYgqJqVWJZdN6beQIFH4lsEWNjBregR7dK0ibQbt9kt8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 15:52:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_09E1A562-2E41-411C-A375-0FEC6FD5177E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Alexey, Thanks for the review. Please see my response for you comment on the = Common Field Encoding below. Thanks, Ian >=20 >=20 >> 8.3. Common Field Encoding >>=20 >> Both of the DHCPv4 and DHCPv6 options defined in this section encode >> a list of bootstrap server URIs. The "URI" structure is an option >> that can contain multiple URIs (see [RFC7227], Section 5.7). >>=20 >> bootstrap-server-list: >>=20 >> This is confusing, because I believe the following is a single entry >> in the list, not the whole list syntax: >>=20 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | uri-length | URI | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>=20 >> o uri-length: 2 octets long, specifies the length of the URI data. >>=20 >> o URI: URI of zerotouch bootstrap server, using the HTTPS URI >> scheme defined in Section 2.7.2 of RFC7230. URI MUST be in >> form "https://[:]". >>=20 >> So if I am correct above, please clarify this by changing >> "bootstrap-server-list:" to "bootstrap-server-list is a list of 1 or = more >> items, each with the following syntax:" (Or something like this.) >>=20 >> Also, "URI" deserve to be a Normative Reference, as it defines the >> generic syntax you are referring to. >=20 [if Propose removing the =E2=80=98bootstrap-server-list:=E2=80=99 line = and extending the intro paragraph to read: "Both of the DHCPv4 and DHCPv6 options defined in this section encode a list of bootstrap server URIs. The "URI" structure is an option that can contain multiple URIs (see [RFC7227], Section 5.7). Each URI entry in the bootstrap-server-list is structured as follows:=E2=80=9D Also, I=E2=80=99ve added RFC7230 to the normative references.] --Apple-Mail=_09E1A562-2E41-411C-A375-0FEC6FD5177E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Alexey,

Thanks for = the review. Please see my response for you comment on the Common Field = Encoding below.

Thanks,
Ian



8.3. =  Common Field Encoding

 Both of = the DHCPv4 and DHCPv6 options defined in this section encode
 a list of bootstrap server URIs.  The "URI" = structure is an option
 that can contain multiple = URIs (see [RFC7227], Section 5.7).

   bootstrap-server-list:

This is confusing, because I believe the following is a = single entry
in the list, not the whole list syntax:

   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-...-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   | =       uri-length =             &n= bsp;|          URI =             &n= bsp;    |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-...-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   o = uri-length: 2 octets long, specifies the length of the URI data.

   o URI: URI of zerotouch = bootstrap server, using the HTTPS URI
     scheme defined in Section 2.7.2 = of RFC7230.  URI MUST be in
     form = "https://<ip-address-or-hostname>[:<port>]".
So if I am correct above, please clarify this by changing
"bootstrap-server-list:" to "bootstrap-server-list is a list = of 1 or more
items, each with the following syntax:" (Or = something like this.)

Also, "URI" deserve = to be a Normative Reference, as it defines the
generic = syntax you are referring to.


[if =  Propose removing the =E2=80=98bootstrap-server-list:=E2=80=99 line = and extending
the intro paragraph to read:

 "Both of the DHCPv4 and DHCPv6 options defined in this = section encode
 a list of bootstrap server URIs. =  The "URI" structure is an option
 that can = contain multiple URIs (see [RFC7227], Section 5.7). Each = URI
 entry in the bootstrap-server-list is structured as = follows:=E2=80=9D

Also, I=E2=80=99ve = added RFC7230 to the normative references.]

= --Apple-Mail=_09E1A562-2E41-411C-A375-0FEC6FD5177E-- From nobody Tue Dec 11 08:45:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130EE130E6C; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:45:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=uT7BmN/h; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=HP25Z/MX Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vJ0l0z9F26Sl; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F587130E68; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6000621F4F; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 11:45:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 11 Dec 2018 11:45:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= message-id:from:to:cc:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:date:references:subject:in-reply-to; s=fm1; bh=7qI H45ya3PV0noGOwCtFQ64/u/+8R+hOlkc/fhaR4qU=; b=uT7BmN/hROfeD7+wOEe PT0xp49YJgtdqrU/RkZZZtLtYkLxLSYfGJ/5ekyg6/fh31MR9dMCjFRy3+ErORrf 9o0qAg2oXg8oknzZt9qDkjNteFGZcQsVd0Tk0B/L98Grfq675CsbAtIkb+pBMaoF hbjx8kVcZhxN+t7ukZsBgLMjcoL+xry1jhHWzCrlzjS1xDWPYVK/JHTUrVzbDtoj To5cBJPBEBnFF0ckBy7NRDurfEVMQOWZYsdFyrMTFTasKNcjsmM+YTcRVhmgzm4Y 4LuOo6fmKY+9XNuxzO32EQ7MFQWJVu8hYV6Fsexc8tXk54jDY2QszHIMGwiu2l4Y e0w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=7qIH45ya3PV0noGOwCtFQ64/u/+8R+hOlkc/fhaR4 qU=; b=HP25Z/MXKQUU59PHOFcWlYxaMKpZwdJokgGxX1nJ42IVH3oNyftp/OEDq T+qGYQkRNc44pgYT2BBi5K8Kq42HKKaoXLH7NNRA4F9bYMB/rtJ8YlP7o7LAn4YY Fom+7U55R1PDW/4sycZU/B1+vfOzZKwMqiEmF0Dl+1bdbVQZhg8ilvXuFk/UaLjW c/gJyqwl2mS0Avq6ODESZ+rOHO4wuUNbIatRVZ8vfMC/4U/eITfz1bMK0MOSNvhi MFIzkCUksldCF4wxjCX8MD43PPmfxSRURzepEy7sfoNYMJMpIriIKwws+sfhlscu iRMbUFgEBpxg74HFj4m6HNqQ6LyJg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtkedrudegjedgleefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfquhhtnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucef tddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefkhffvggfgtg foffhfufgjsehtjeertdertdejnecuhfhrohhmpeetlhgvgigvhicuofgvlhhnihhkohhv uceorggrmhgvlhhnihhkohhvsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepih hpqdgruggurhgvshhsqdhorhdqhhhoshhtnhgrmhgvphhorhhtrdhsohdpghhithhhuhgs rdgtohhmpdhivghtfhdrohhrghdpphhrohhtohhnmhgrihhlrdgthhdpvgigrghmphhlvg drtghomhdpihgrnhgrrdhorhhgpdhgrggsrdgtohhmnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhr ohhmpegrrghmvghlnhhikhhovhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmhenucevlhhushhtvghruf hiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 9FF739E149; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 11:45:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1544546745.239011.1606019152.63663D44@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: Kent Watsen , The IESG Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org, netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-2f590f9a Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:45:45 +0000 References: <154403409772.31942.18387130156502248943.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:45:50 -0000 Hi Kent, On Mon, Dec 10, 2018, at 11:03 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Alexey, > > Thanks for your review! > See below for responses. > > > Kent // coauthor > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Thank you for a well written document, it was a pleasure to read. > > I have a small list of issues that I would like to discuss before > > recommending approval of this document: > > > > > > In Section 5.3: > > > > If the zero touch information artifact contains redirect information, > > the device MUST, within limits of how many recursive loops the device > > allows, process the redirect information as described in Section 5.5. > > This is the recursion step, it will cause the device to reenter this > > algorithm, but this time the data source will definitely be a > > bootstrap server, as that is all redirect information is able to > > redirect a device to. > > > > I think you need to specify a "max redirect" value in order to > > prevent intentional or unintentional misconfigurations. Without > > such limit it is trivial to introduce denial-of-service attack > > on naive device implementations. > > There is a Security Consideration on this very point, where is says: > > Implementations SHOULD limit the maximum number of recursive > redirects allowed; no more than a half dozen seems reasonable. I think this is weaker than I would like. I also didn't read the second part (half dozen) as normative. So my suggestion is below. > Here's direct link: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25#section-9.9 > > Is this now acceptable as is? If not, would it be suffice to > add a reference the Security Consideration? If not, then, yes, > a max-redirect value could be defined, but it would have to be > somewhat high (25?) so that the standard doesn't prematurely > limit some unforeseen use. Please advise. I think I prefer something like this: Implementations MUST limit the maximum number of recursive redirects allowed; the maximum number of recursive redirects allowed SHOULD be 25. And adding a reference to the Security Considerations. I.e., I think imposing a limit should be a MUST with the value 25 recommended. > > 2) > > 10.3. The SMI Security for S/MIME CMS Content Type Registry > > > > IANA is kindly requested to add two entries in the "SMI Security for > > S/MIME CMS Content Type" registry (1.2.840.113549.1.9.16.1), with > > values as follows: > > > > Decimal Description References > > ------- -------------------------------------- ---------- > > TBD1 id-ct-zerotouchInformationXML [RFCXXXX] > > TBD2 id-ct-zerotouchInformationJSON [RFCXXXX] > > > > id-ct-zerotouchInformationXML indicates that the "zerotouch- > > information" is encoded using XML. id-ct-zerotouchInformationJSON > > indicates that the "zerotouch-information" is encoded using JSON. > > > > You define these values, but they are not used anywhere in the document. > > Aye, you're right! At least, they're not referenced by name, which > complicates searching for them... (see my next response for more) > > > > > It looks like you intended for this to be used in several places, > > for example: > > > > 3.1. Zero Touch Information > > > > When the zero touch information artifact is unsigned, as it might be > > when communicated over trusted channels, the CMS structure's top-most > > content type MUST be one of the OIDs described in Section 10.3, or > > the OID id-data (1.2.840.113549.1.7.1), in which case the encoding > > (JSON, XML, etc.) SHOULD be communicated externally. In either > > case, the associated content is an octet string containing > > "zerotouch-information" data in the expected encoding. > > > > Did you intend to use the above OIDs here? > > Yes, exactly, and also in two other places in Section 3.1. In > all three instances, we could either: > > OLD: > ...one of the OIDs described in Section 10.3, > > NEW1: > ...one of the OIDs described in Section 10.3 (i.e., > id-ct-zerotouchInformationXML or id-ct-zerotouchInformationJSON), > > or > > NEW2: > ...one of the OIDs described in Section 10.3 (i.e., > 1.2.840.113549.1.9.16.1.TBD1 or 1.2.840.113549.1.9.16.1.TBD2), > > Do you have a preference? I think NEW1 is clearer. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > 4.2. DNS Server > > > > To use a DNS server as a source of bootstrapping data, a device MAY > > perform a multicast DNS [RFC6762] query searching for the service > > "_zerotouch._tcp.local.". Alternatively the device MAY perform DNS- > > SD [RFC6763] via normal DNS operation, using the domain returned to > > it from the DHCP server; for example, searching for the service > > "_zerotouch._tcp.example.com". > > > > I agree with Adam that "zerotouch" much be a registered as service > > name, see https://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers\ /service-names-port-numbers.xhtml. > > Agreed, and I responded to Adam previously as follows: > > ===start=== > You are quite right. Here is the Github commit to add an IANA > registration > for the "zerotouch" service: > https://github.com/netconf-wg/zero-touch/commit/6280763339a3e91b9efb21703b26a6bdbf05349b. This looks reasonable. (Note, saying that this is an extension of HTTPS in a note doesn't help. I think it would be better to say "this protocol uses HTTPS as a substrate". The current text would make people wonder why you need to register a new service name.) > Please let me know if you suggest any further changes. > ===stop=== > > And likewise, Alexey, please also let me know if you suggest any > further changes. > > > > > > Artifact to Resource Record Mapping: > > > > Zero Touch Information: Mapped to a TXT record called "zt-info" > > containing the base64-encoding of the binary artifact described > > in Section 3.1. > > > > Owner Certificate: Mapped to a TXT record called "zt-cert" > > containing the base64-encoding of the binary artifact described > > in Section 3.2. > > > > Ownership Voucher: Mapped to a TXT record called "zt-voucher" > > containing the base64-encoding of the binary artifact described > > in Section 3.3. > > > > So just to double check, these would be zt-info._zerotouch._tcp.example.com, > > etc? > > I'm not a DNS expert, but my understanding is that lookup would be on, > e.g., _zerotouch._tcp.example.com and that the TXT records would be > returned as follows: > > _zerotouch._tcp.example.com. 3600 IN TXT "zt_info=base64encodedvalue==" > _zerotouch._tcp.example.com. 3600 IN TXT "zt_cert=base64encodedvalue==" > _zerotouch._tcp.example.com. 3600 IN TXT "zt_voucher=base64encodedvalue==" This is not what your text is saying. I also don't think that your description is correct. "TXT record called X" is not something defined. You need to define TXT record which can contain attribute=value syntax and allowed attributes are one of 3 you define. > For instance ['\' added for readability]: > > # dig txt gab.com > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > gab.com. 300 IN TXT "v=spf1 include:_spf.protonmail.ch mx ~all" > gab.com. 300 IN TXT "ca3-56e3739f7f644cdaaa0e7edc903cf648" > gab.com. 300 IN TXT "protonmail-verification=\ > 96ca5019e36fc3a6dc5c4399efabe68792e55cc7" > > > Do you feel that an example in the document is warranted? Definitely you should add some examples. > > 8.1. DHCPv4 Zero Touch Option > > > > o bootstrap-server-list: A list of servers for the > > client to attempt contacting, in order to obtain > > further bootstrapping data, in the format shown > > in [common-field-encoding]. > > > > [common-field-encoding] in this and subsequent sections looks like a > > reference to Section 8.3. Please fix before publication, as this looks > > like an undefined reference. > > Good grief, fixed (in both locations)! > > s/[common-field-encoding]/Section 8.3/ > > > > > 8.3. Common Field Encoding > > > > Both of the DHCPv4 and DHCPv6 options defined in this section encode > > a list of bootstrap server URIs. The "URI" structure is an option > > that can contain multiple URIs (see [RFC7227], Section 5.7). > > > > bootstrap-server-list: > > > > This is confusing, because I believe the following is a single entry > > in the list, not the whole list syntax: > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > | uri-length | URI | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > o uri-length: 2 octets long, specifies the length of the URI data. > > > > o URI: URI of zerotouch bootstrap server, using the HTTPS URI > > scheme defined in Section 2.7.2 of RFC7230. URI MUST be in > > form "https://[:]". > > > > So if I am correct above, please clarify this by changing > > "bootstrap-server-list:" to "bootstrap-server-list is a list of 1 or more > > items, each with the following syntax:" (Or something like this.) > > > > Also, "URI" deserve to be a Normative Reference, as it defines the > > generic syntax you are referring to. > > > I have ask my coauthor, Ian, to respond to this comment. Ok. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Tue Dec 11 08:46:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45AC130E6C; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:46:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=Omcz82lF; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=ZhEEA7W5 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gkaIYNzV_i1J; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:46:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 612AF130E68; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:46:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3408F220E0; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 11:46:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 11 Dec 2018 11:46:43 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= message-id:from:to:cc:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:subject:date:references:in-reply-to; s=fm1; bh=B4U QI2eA9DMj2tWMGtvsRRkB6F9grVho/jMvu+Hu8lQ=; b=Omcz82lF6S6T57Y6p4R s0QMIj04F/o097bi88IhYgIAdWJtWkIaA3wn1hqKKs8ecSUiWrzC/oR5vT/c0OI+ W6tO+lVKBt12Ws3XBrIhKNszivEheW8ojefIYVzW+o5ZgDqpm8TX3FvaGeQsnPmQ Od94n5l5pWBhy9qquWy5xODCjvOGoJI/vmpe07tDz7bqg3e0HLiz/y7L+W6Ao2+h igJl5n5u8NSghl46BGWC1lARLR7cSqzwosnxsMPi9frRl/XF8rRz72gyXVmFkuSf c0sF6F+FPmXJkRbIWq6Hb7xoay9EfbJkZ6ZwA9CAOeCk8dOCMgby0p5bGLvNO2Fa T3Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=B4UQI2eA9DMj2tWMGtvsRRkB6F9grVho/jMvu+Hu8 lQ=; b=ZhEEA7W5Zlu+38NoN43EnsWWzJ7Qwy2Cf45PEzcC4tj0AqgcC4ZLB8opI 5i0JKdVmHBM9xEJN9JA6h4CP+yhZo1yeDclSvHlMP+itKjeDK3410GxOSOKH5yXH +rCLHHiEiL0gh1PbLNuzugmLYlbBWNm4BnaOg5a3RVdiUaVvVki26rEwR7Y47mBn lVTe6IbxRT04lxHDzJ0EeVuM+MCHCTyQOdF9DBQUUdVHqktYXYHwVIO3y2ogbQKO HZoTyS9XY+84Fp0PFAt4xPJF2kXDyILJelhxbNHs/0it8iKTKMWp6rZ86IksWavB zT+QYWT0FY7K67A941ru9Lf3DAPLw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtkedrudegjedgleefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfquhhtnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucef tddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefkhffvggfgtg fouffffhgjsegrjeerreertdejnecuhfhrohhmpeetlhgvgigvhicuofgvlhhnihhkohhv uceorggrmhgvlhhnihhkohhvsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepih hpqdgruggurhgvshhsqdhorhdqhhhoshhtnhgrmhgvphhorhhtrdhsohenucfrrghrrghm pehmrghilhhfrhhomheprggrmhgvlhhnihhkohhvsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmnecuve hluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id DA6C99E149; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 11:46:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1544546802.239696.1606036288.59EED88B@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: ianfarrer@gmx.com Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org, netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org, Kent Watsen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_----------=_15445468022396960" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-2f590f9a Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:46:42 +0000 References: <154403409772.31942.18387130156502248943.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7DCF274C-963E-417B-8B0B-9024F42D200B@gmx.com> In-Reply-To: <7DCF274C-963E-417B-8B0B-9024F42D200B@gmx.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:46:46 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_----------=_15445468022396960 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Ian, On Tue, Dec 11, 2018, at 3:52 PM, ianfarrer@gmx.com wrote: > Hi Alexey, >=20 > Thanks for the review. Please see my response for you comment on the > Common Field Encoding below.>=20 > Thanks, > Ian >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> 8.3. Common Field Encoding >>>=20 >>> Both of the DHCPv4 and DHCPv6 options defined in this section >>> encode>>> a list of bootstrap server URIs. The "URI" structure is an= option>>> that can contain multiple URIs (see [RFC7227], Section 5.7). >>>=20 >>> bootstrap-server-list: >>>=20 >>> This is confusing, because I believe the following is a single entry>>>= in the list, not the whole list syntax: >>>=20 >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...-+-+-+-+-+-+-+>>>= | uri-length | URI |>>> = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...-+-+-+-+-+-+-+>>>=20 >>> o uri-length: 2 octets long, specifies the length of the URI >>> data.>>>=20 >>> o URI: URI of zerotouch bootstrap server, using the HTTPS URI >>> scheme defined in Section 2.7.2 of RFC7230. URI MUST be in >>> form "https://[:]". >>>=20 >>> So if I am correct above, please clarify this by changing >>> "bootstrap-server-list:" to "bootstrap-server-list is a list of 1 >>> or more>>> items, each with the following syntax:" (Or something like t= his.) >>>=20 >>> Also, "URI" deserve to be a Normative Reference, as it defines the >>> generic syntax you are referring to. >>=20 >=20 > [if Propose removing the =E2=80=98bootstrap-server-list:=E2=80=99 line a= nd extending> the intro paragraph to read: >=20 > "Both of the DHCPv4 and DHCPv6 options defined in this section encode> = a list of bootstrap server URIs. The "URI" structure is an option > that can contain multiple URIs (see [RFC7227], Section 5.7). Each URI> = entry in the bootstrap-server-list is structured as follows:=E2=80=9D >=20 > Also, I=E2=80=99ve added RFC7230 to the normative references.] >=20 Yes, this looks good to me. Thank you, Alexey --_----------=_15445468022396960 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Hi Ian,

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018, at 3:52 PM, ianfarrer@gmx.com wrote:
Hi Alexey,

Thanks for the review. Please see my response for you comment on the C= ommon Field Encoding below.

Thanks,
Ian



8.3.  Common Field Encoding

 Both of the DHCPv4 and DHCPv6 options defined in this section en= code
 a list of bootstrap server URIs.  The "URI" structure is an= option
 that can contain multiple URIs (see [RFC7227], Section 5.7).
=

   bootstrap-server-list:

This is confusing, because I believe the following is a single entry
in the list, not the whole list syntax:

   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |       uri-length &nb= sp;            = |          URI   &nb= sp;            =   |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+

   o uri-length: 2 octets long, specifies the length of= the URI data.

   o URI: URI of zerotouch bootstrap server, using the = HTTPS URI
     scheme defined in Section 2.7.2 of RFC72= 30.  URI MUST be in
     form "https://<ip-address-or-hostname= >[:<port>]".

So if I am correct above, please clarify this by changing
"bootstrap-server-list:" to "bootstrap-server-list is a list of 1 or m= ore
items, each with the following syntax:" (Or something like this.)
<= /div>

Also, "URI" deserve to be a Normative Reference, as it defines the
=
generic syntax you are referring to.


[if  Propose removing the =E2=80=98bootstrap-server-list:=E2=80= =99 line and extending
the intro paragraph to read:

 "Both of the DHCPv4 and DHCPv6 options defined in this section e= ncode
 a list of bootstrap server URIs.  The "URI" structure is an= option
 that can contain multiple URIs (see [RFC7227], Section 5.7). Eac= h URI
 entry in the bootstrap-server-list is structured as follows:=E2= =80=9D

Also, I=E2=80=99ve added RFC7230 to the normative references.]

Yes, this looks good to me.

Thank you,
Alexey
--_----------=_15445468022396960-- From nobody Thu Dec 13 05:44:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822111271FF for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:44:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YjdgrBbwWA3B for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.72.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70155126DBF for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:44:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id wBDDiA3D016300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 13 Dec 2018 14:44:12 +0100 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (134.102.43.163) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 14:44:05 +0100 To: References: <154025088656.13688.15105519432052086428@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Henk Birkholz CC: Ignas Bagdonas Message-ID: <0aebf4fc-6027-272e-5801-0e3169928dc0@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 14:44:04 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <154025088656.13688.15105519432052086428@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [134.102.43.163] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-20.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 13:44:21 -0000 Hello all, this work seems to have stopped to a grinding halt, again. IoT Directorate hat on, I would like to know the reasons, as they seem to be quite unfathomable to me, personally. I would like to see a status report from the chairs why the "push-drafts" were not pushed forward. I would also like to see a summary of open items wrt to the WG state (to pick an example:ietf-netconf-yang-push was updated Okt 26th and the WG state is: WG Consensus: Waiting for Write-Up (wg milestone: Sep 2018 - WGLC for YANG Push). Is there still a gap between consensus and write-up? Taking into account the sheer amount of discussion, review and (I am a bit saddened that I think I have to highlight that again) urgency, I am very surprised that I am having such a hard time assessing the current state based on the list and github. Please excuse me, if I am missing something very obvious here. I have to admit, I am growing more and more concerned about the relevance of contributions wrt YANG Telemetry created here in the last years. Please clarify. Viele Grüße, Henk On 10/23/18 1:28 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > Title : Subscription to YANG Datastores > Authors : Alexander Clemm > Eric Voit > Alberto Gonzalez Prieto > Ambika Prasad Tripathy > Einar Nilsen-Nygaard > Andy Bierman > Balazs Lengyel > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-20.txt > Pages : 57 > Date : 2018-10-22 > > Abstract: > Via the mechanism described in this document, subscriber applications > may request a continuous, customized stream of updates from a YANG > datastore. Providing such visibility into updates enables new > capabilities based on the remote mirroring and monitoring of > configuration and operational state. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-20 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-20 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Thu Dec 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DQo+IE5ldGNvbmZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9uZXRjb25mDQo= From nobody Thu Dec 13 18:44:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC55130F72; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 18:44:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <154475545649.32023.13892961839761712704@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 18:44:16 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 02:44:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Dynamic subscription to YANG Events and Datastores over RESTCONF Authors : Eric Voit Reshad Rahman Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Alexander Clemm Andy Bierman Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2018-12-13 Abstract: This document provides a RESTCONF binding to the dynamic subscription capability of both subscribed notifications and YANG-Push. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Dec 13 23:40:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419031310C2 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 23:40:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bq9roMlBsYSL for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 23:40:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E27130DC4 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 23:40:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9F0D01AE0309 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 08:40:50 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 08:40:50 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181214.084050.280161788949186202.mbj@tail-f.com> To: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <154475545649.32023.13892961839761712704@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <154475545649.32023.13892961839761712704@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 07:40:55 -0000 Hi, The diff to -10 shows no changes, except for the date and changelog (!) https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11 /martin internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > Title : Dynamic subscription to YANG Events and Datastores over RESTCONF > Authors : Eric Voit > Reshad Rahman > Einar Nilsen-Nygaard > Alexander Clemm > Andy Bierman > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11.txt > Pages : 25 > Date : 2018-12-13 > > Abstract: > This document provides a RESTCONF binding to the dynamic subscription > capability of both subscribed notifications and YANG-Push. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-11 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Fri Dec 14 04:15:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7B3130FE5 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 04:15:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.16 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.16 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2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 17:53:03 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB39818BD20967B36B8F24DBA69BA10VI1PR07MB3981eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Cross posting because I'm not sure whether this is more of interest to NETC= ONF clients or a general YANG & datastore question. In IETF Interfaces there is a leaf 'type'. Here is a snippet of the model: leaf type { type identityref { base interface-type; } mandatory true; description "The type of the interface. When an interface entry is created, a server MAY initialize the type leaf with a valid value This says that although the leaf is mandatory, a NETCONF client creating a = new interface does not have to specify/provide that leaf. That strikes me a= s the first unusual point. Secondly -> this also means that a NETCONF client may send a config with el= ements X, Y, and Z, but then later read back the config to see X, Y, Z and = T (e.g. type). But they never configured the type leaf. Shouldn't most clients generally assume that what they write, they read bac= k (unless there are 'choice' or 'when' statements involved of course, but t= hat are part of the YANG and any auto-clearing behavior from those would be= expected)? Or does 'anything go' / 'market decides' when it comes to behavior like thi= s explained in 'description' statements? Is it just fine that some NETCONF servers auto-magically create some (extra= ) data nodes inside a list entry that a client created? (would like to see = opinions from multiple people on this - especially client developers). I would think that each and every magic creation/deletion/changes done by a= server (i.e. that aren't part of the YANG, except perhaps part of a human-= readable (non-machine parsable) 'description' statement) would require some= special handling code on the client (or app above the client) side. I can imagine several alternatives to the way it was modelled above: 1) NMDA approach: make the leaf optional. If the operator doesn't set that = leaf, then reading the conventional datastores doesn't return that leaf. Bu= t reading the operational DS could return the actual system selected value. 2) separate config & state leafs for 'type': make the leaf optional. If th= e operator doesn't set that leaf, then reading the conventional datastores = doesn't return that leaf. But have another state leaf called 'oper-type'. I'm not proposing to re-open the IETF Interface model. Just using it to ask= questions about server created config data and explore alternatives. Jason --_000_VI1PR07MB39818BD20967B36B8F24DBA69BA10VI1PR07MB3981eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

Cross posting because I'm not s= ure whether this is more of interest to NETCONF clients or a general YANG &= amp; datastore question.

 

In IETF Interfaces there is a l= eaf 'type'. Here is a snippet of the model:

 

      = leaf type {

     &= nbsp;  type identityref {

     &= nbsp;    base interface-type;

     &= nbsp;  }

     &= nbsp;  mandatory true;

     &= nbsp;  description

     &= nbsp;    "The type of the interface.<= /p>

 

     &= nbsp;     When an interface entry is created, a server = MAY

     &= nbsp;     initialize the type leaf with a valid value

 

This says that although the lea= f is mandatory, a NETCONF client creating a new interface does not have to = specify/provide that leaf. That strikes me as the first unusual point.=

 

Secondly -> this also means = that a NETCONF client may send a config with elements X, Y, and Z, but then= later read back the config to see X, Y, Z and T  (e.g. type). But the= y never configured the type leaf.

 

Shouldn't most clients generall= y assume that what they write, they read back (unless there are 'choice' or= 'when' statements involved of course, but that are part of the YANG and an= y auto-clearing behavior from those would be expected)?

 

Or does 'anything go' / 'market= decides' when it comes to behavior like this explained in 'description' st= atements?

 

Is it just fine that some NETCO= NF servers auto-magically create some (extra) data nodes inside a list entr= y that a client created? (would like to see opinions from multiple people o= n this - especially client developers).

 

I would think that each and eve= ry magic creation/deletion/changes done by a server (i.e. that aren't part = of the YANG, except perhaps part of a human-readable (non-machine parsable)= 'description' statement) would require some special handling code on the client (or app above the client) side.

 

I can imagine several alternati= ves to the way it was modelled above:

1) NMDA approach: make the leaf= optional. If the operator doesn't set that leaf, then reading the conventi= onal datastores doesn't return that leaf. But reading the operational DS co= uld return the actual system selected value.

2) separate config & state = leafs for 'type':  make the leaf optional. If the operator doesn't set= that leaf, then reading the conventional datastores doesn't return that le= af. But have another state leaf called 'oper-type'.

 

I'm not proposing to re-open th= e IETF Interface model. Just using it to ask questions about server created= config data and explore alternatives.

 

Jason

--_000_VI1PR07MB39818BD20967B36B8F24DBA69BA10VI1PR07MB3981eurp_-- From nobody Mon Dec 17 00:15:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D028F128CE4; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 00:15:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1SKYOnq6LX6H; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 00:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27369128BCC; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 00:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.45]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B1FF21AE0397; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 09:15:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 09:15:05 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181217.091505.218628572185200621.mbj@tail-f.com> To: jason.sterne@nokia.com Cc: netmod@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 08:15:10 -0000 Hi, "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > Hi all, > > Cross posting because I'm not sure whether this is more of interest to > NETCONF clients or a general YANG & datastore question. > > In IETF Interfaces there is a leaf 'type'. Here is a snippet of the > model: > > leaf type { > type identityref { > base interface-type; > } > mandatory true; > description > "The type of the interface. > > When an interface entry is created, a server MAY > initialize the type leaf with a valid value > > This says that although the leaf is mandatory, a NETCONF client > creating a new interface does not have to specify/provide that > leaf. That strikes me as the first unusual point. Yes, unusual, but "safe" in the sense that a client that doesn't have code for this special case will just see the "mandatory true" and provide a value for the type as well. > Secondly -> this also means that a NETCONF client may send a config > with elements X, Y, and Z, but then later read back the config to see > X, Y, Z and T (e.g. type). But they never configured the type leaf. Right, but again this only happens for clients that know this special rule. > Shouldn't most clients generally assume that what they write, they > read back (unless there are 'choice' or 'when' statements involved of > course, but that are part of the YANG and any auto-clearing behavior > from those would be expected)? > > Or does 'anything go' / 'market decides' when it comes to behavior > like this explained in 'description' statements? > > Is it just fine that some NETCONF servers auto-magically create some > (extra) data nodes inside a list entry that a client created? (would > like to see opinions from multiple people on this - especially client > developers). In general, my reply is "no, that is not fine". The reason for this unusual design is that most existing systems code type-info into the name of an interface ("ethX", "ge-X/Y/Z", "GigabitEthernet-X/Y" etc), and having to provide the type in the name and in a special leaf would just be redundant and error prone. The thinking at the time was that the interface model that we designed had to adapt to how existing systems behave. > I would think that each and every magic creation/deletion/changes done > by a server (i.e. that aren't part of the YANG, except perhaps part of > a human-readable (non-machine parsable) 'description' statement) would > require some special handling code on the client (or app above the > client) side. Yes. But as long as this special handling is optional in the client I think it is ok. > I can imagine several alternatives to the way it was modelled above: > 1) NMDA approach: make the leaf optional. If the operator doesn't set > that leaf, then reading the conventional datastores doesn't return > that leaf. But reading the operational DS could return the actual > system selected value. > > 2) separate config & state leafs for 'type': make the leaf > optional. If the operator doesn't set that leaf, then reading the > conventional datastores doesn't return that leaf. But have another > state leaf called 'oper-type'. Both these cases assume that the type can be derived from the name. > I'm not proposing to re-open the IETF Interface model. Just using it > to ask questions about server created config data and explore > alternatives. The rule of thumb is to avoid server created config as much as possible. /martin From nobody Mon Dec 17 01:06:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF85130E6D for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 01:06:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.058 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.058 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.46, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=bPsQBFCk; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=RoCwl6T+ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AGoFpUSCGUPj for ; 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charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, where the system does create configuration in running, due to

  • different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in
  • the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by the operator
  • the created config needs to be referenced from operator created config
  • the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part of backup/restore

regards Balazs

On 2018. 12. 17. 9:15, Martin Bjorklun= d wrote:
The rule of thumb is to avoi=
d server created config as much as
possible.


/martin

--=20
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@erics=
son.com=20
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port 10024) with ESMTP id tzTmrjaJDu5B for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 08:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.myfast.site (mail.myfast.site [109.203.117.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DD92128CB7 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 08:40:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hansfords.net; s=default; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Reply-To:Message-Id: Date:Subject:To:From:Sender:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=6FEICGBpYF5X0vOr+FEEPDMgnxDtaPwPu5UcIjYKvRE=; b=13Fdt/aiZvcKN8wrPvejbQZKbw IcAI7/c3eNwYVfkWE3Zvu4bIkN9dml3SixYCv8PdYrgZj8xq0ulb/78DAwUH6rDlDVoFpiXKGEg2v utUPixvxLClp6WpQwv4Af11kVJZ+Icw1AppRFCRzCT2J1IyiOoBcNGlZFCwELIhyIsDTojFnWQpWL b6uh8H+IHmoLXFuYpla0EW3Y/hRig1N2PutQfatjJm/EOMnb0dyfWNrZzh6YB55xKH2YdeuZdV+oc ExIhJZVL+qWeRS66viXgYeXYID66/V6DGVGrcCLRkUXBH6Od38/4Ojt5dcWDA071zp2tnpUlTWgOQ adJXrE1Q==; Received: from [51.52.247.166] (port=51879 helo=[172.16.1.65]) by mail.myfast.site with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gYvwK-00BdSh-Ae; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 16:40:20 +0000 From: "Jonathan Hansford" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 16:40:18 +0000 Message-Id: Reply-To: "Jonathan Hansford" User-Agent: eM_Client/7.2.34062.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------=_MB8A7855E6-6A89-47C3-A9DC-0F86BDA66715" X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181217-4, 17/12/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - mail.myfast.site X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - hansfords.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: mail.myfast.site: authenticated_id: jonathan@hansfords.net X-Authenticated-Sender: mail.myfast.site: jonathan@hansfords.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] delete-config on candidate X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 16:40:26 -0000 --------=_MB8A7855E6-6A89-47C3-A9DC-0F86BDA66715 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In 2009-2010 the question was asked whether the operation was allowed on the candidate configuration datastore. In May 2010 it was stated "The definition need not list all disallowed options. But the section on :candidate does not like (sic) as a modified operation. This means delete-config is not allowed." (See Re: [Netconf] delete-config on candidate? = ) The implication is that, unless something is explicitly stated as being allowed (in this case in RFC 4741 and, presumably, by extension RFC 6241), it is not allowed. I have just checked RFC 6241 and, on that basis, come to the following conclusions: : , , and are allowed as sources and targets : and are allowed as targets; is explicitly excluded; is implicitly excluded : and are allowed as targets; and are implicitly excluded, though can be the config : and are allowed as sources; is used in examples and therefore I assume this constitutes an implicit inclusion; is implicitly excluded and : , and are allowed as targets; is implicitly excluded : , and are allowed as sources; is implicitly excluded So, in summary: is not a valid target for or a valid source for ; it is probably a valid source for is not a valid target for is not a valid target for is not a valid target for (though it can be the config), or , or a valid source for Is that the general understanding of which operations can be used on which datastores? Thanks, Jonathan --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------=_MB8A7855E6-6A89-47C3-A9DC-0F86BDA66715 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,

In 2009-2010 the question was asked whether = the <delete-config> operation was allowed on the candidate configurat= ion datastore. In May 2010 it was stated "The <delete-config> definit= ion need not list all disallowed options.=C2=A0But the section on :candidat= e does not like (sic) <delete-config> as a=C2=A0modified operation.= =C2=A0 This means delete-config is not allowed." (See=C2=A0Re: [= Netconf] delete-config on candidate?)

The im= plication is that, unless something is explicitly stated as being allowed (= in this case in RFC 4741 and, presumably, by extension RFC 6241), it is not= allowed.=C2=A0

I have just checked RFC 6241 and= , on that basis, come to the following conclusions:
  • <copy-config> : <running>, <cand= idate>, <startup> and <url> are allowed as sources and targe= ts
  • <delete-config> : <startup> and <url> are allo= wed as targets; <running> is explicitly excluded; <candidate> i= s implicitly excluded
  • <edit-config> : <running> and <= ;candidate> are allowed as targets; <startup> and <url> are = implicitly excluded, though <url> can be the config
  • <get-c= onfig> : <candidate> and <startup> are allowed as sources; &= lt;running> is used in examples and therefore I assume this constitutes = an implicit inclusion; <url> is implicitly excluded
  • <lock&= gt; and <unlock> : <running>, <candidate> and <startup= > are allowed as targets; <url> is implicitly excluded
  • <= ;validate> : <candidate>, <startup> and <url> are allo= wed as sources; <running> is implicitly excluded
So, in= summary:
  • <runn= ing> is not a valid target for <delete-config> or a valid source f= or <validate>; it is probably a valid source for <get-config>
  • <candidate> is not a valid target for <delete-config>
  • <startup> is not a valid target for <edit-config>
    • <url> is not a valid target for <edit-config> (though it can b= e the config), <lock> or <unlock>, or a valid source for <ge= t-config>
Is that the general understanding of which opera= tions can be used on which datastores?

Tha= nks,

Jonathan

3D"" Virus-= free. www.avast.com
--------=_MB8A7855E6-6A89-47C3-A9DC-0F86BDA66715-- From nobody Mon Dec 17 09:05:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF07126DBF for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 09:05:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5PkIeYt1Nz2M for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 09:05:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B659130EC6 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 09:05:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 873521AE0397; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:05:40 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:05:40 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181217.180540.1115262004271853034.mbj@tail-f.com> To: jonathan@hansfords.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] delete-config on candidate X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:05:43 -0000 Hi, "Jonathan Hansford" wrote: > Hi, > > In 2009-2010 the question was asked whether the > operation was allowed on the candidate configuration datastore. In May > 2010 it was stated "The definition need not list all > disallowed options. But the section on :candidate does not like (sic) > as a modified operation. This means delete-config is > not allowed." (See Re: [Netconf] delete-config on candidate? > ) > > The implication is that, unless something is explicitly stated as > being allowed (in this case in RFC 4741 and, presumably, by extension > RFC 6241), it is not allowed. Well, the quoted email was from the time when we worked on 4741bis, aka 6241. > I have just checked RFC 6241 and, on that basis, come to the following > conclusions: > : , , and are > allowed as sources and targets > > : and > are allowed as targets; is explicitly excluded; > is implicitly excluded > > : and are > allowed as targets; and are implicitly excluded, > though can be the config > > : and > are allowed as sources; is used in examples and therefore I > assume this constitutes an implicit inclusion; is implicitly > excluded > > and : , and are > allowed as targets; is implicitly excluded > > : > , and are allowed as sources; is > implicitly excluded > > So, in summary: > is not a valid target for or a valid source > for ; it is probably a valid source for > is not a valid target for > is not a valid target for > is not a valid target for (though it can be the config), > or , or a valid source for > Is that the general understanding of which operations can be used on > which datastores? No; check the YANG module in RFC 6241 and you will see for example: rpc get-config { ... input { container source { description "Particular configuration to retrieve."; choice config-source { mandatory true; description "The configuration to retrieve."; leaf candidate { ... } leaf running { ... } so it is clear that 'running' can be used in get-config. Similar for the others in your list. /martin From nobody Tue Dec 18 00:50:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 885561310DC for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 00:50:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xegWeJvufuEN for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 00:50:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB6FC13107D for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 00:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 5FEB4FC9F0BDE for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 08:50:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 08:50:46 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.172]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 16:50:42 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" , "andy@yumaworks.com" , "kwatsen@juniper.net" , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "warren@kumari.net" , "mjethanandani@gmail.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) Thread-Index: AQHUis0fOWI85JR8KUeCGWx7iiB8pKVsL8uAgACRE7D//34CAIAYBpnw Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 08:50:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20181203055737.B72D1B8122E@rfc-editor.org> <20181203.095409.224403340529984673.mbj@tail-f.com> <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 08:50:52 -0000 LS0tLS3pgq7ku7bljp/ku7YtLS0tLQ0K5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBNYXJ0aW4gQmpvcmtsdW5kIFttYWls dG86bWJqQHRhaWwtZi5jb21dIA0K5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDE45bm0MTLmnIgz5pelIDE3OjQ4 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autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OZkHbc7J7_1w for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 03:46:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB016130EC0 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 03:46:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.45]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B9691B03C92; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:46:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:46:53 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181218.124653.2050609264975088634.mbj@tail-f.com> To: bill.wu@huawei.com Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, andy@yumaworks.com, kwatsen@juniper.net, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20181203.104808.838283353261944785.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5565) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 11:47:02 -0000 UWluIFd1IDxiaWxsLnd1QGh1YXdlaS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiAtLS0tLemCruS7tuWOn+S7ti0t LS0tDQo+IOWPkeS7tuS6ujogTWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCBbbWFpbHRvOm1iakB0YWlsLWYuY29t XSANCj4g5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDE45bm0MTLmnIgz5pelIDE3OjQ4DQo+IOaUtuS7tuS6ujog UWluIFd1DQo+IOaKhOmAgTogcmZjLWVkaXRvckByZmMtZWRpdG9yLm9yZzsgYW5keUB5dW1hd29y a3MuY29tOyBrd2F0c2VuQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0OyBpYmFnZG9uYUBnbWFpbC5jb207IHdhcnJlbkBr dW1hcmkubmV0OyBtamV0aGFuYW5kYW5pQGdtYWlsLmNvbTsgbmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiDk uLvpopg6IFJlOiBbVGVjaG5pY2FsIEVycmF0YSBSZXBvcnRlZF0gUkZDODA0MCAoNTU2NSkNCj4g 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REFSRA0KPiA+ID4gU291cmNlICAgICAgICAgICAgICA6IE5ldHdvcmsgQ29uZmlndXJhdGlvbg0K PiA+ID4gQXJlYSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA6IE9wZXJhdGlvbnMgYW5kIE1hbmFnZW1lbnQNCj4g PiA+IFN0cmVhbSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgOiBJRVRGDQo+ID4gPiBWZXJpZnlpbmcgUGFydHkgICAg IDogSUVTRw0KPiA+ID4gDQo= From nobody Tue Dec 18 05:37:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E966124BE5; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 05:36:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WxoohyhdOmOo; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 05:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4021200B3; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 05:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.147.40.113] (unknown [173.38.220.45]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 284EB1B03C8A; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 14:36:47 +0100 (CET) From: Jan Lindblad Message-Id: <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_78C8BFD7-5283-42AA-BB1B-CB25D5BA2C9C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 14:36:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83b139a1-a0ab-5fbc-f702-7f0d50a46864@ericsson.com> Cc: Martin Bjorklund , "jason.sterne@nokia.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Lengyel?= References: <20181217.091505.218628572185200621.mbj@tail-f.com> <83b139a1-a0ab-5fbc-f702-7f0d50a46864@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 13:36:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_78C8BFD7-5283-42AA-BB1B-CB25D5BA2C9C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, > While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, = where the system does create configuration in running, due to >=20 > different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in > the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by the = operator > the created config needs to be referenced from operator created config > the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part = of backup/restore This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard many = more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however. If we = want to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the = orders from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. = Reliability, security, accountability are growing in importance, and = they all play in this direction. We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the market = will take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible to = be standards compliant without having to implement design excuses like = these. Best Regards, /jan --Apple-Mail=_78C8BFD7-5283-42AA-BB1B-CB25D5BA2C9C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi,

While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, where the system does create configuration in running, due to

  • different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in
  • the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by the operator
  • the created config needs to be referenced from operator created config
  • the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part of backup/restore
This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard many more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however. If we want to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the orders from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. Reliability, security, accountability are growing in importance, and they all play in this direction.

We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the market will take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible to be standards compliant without having to implement design excuses like these.

Best Regards,
/jan

--Apple-Mail=_78C8BFD7-5283-42AA-BB1B-CB25D5BA2C9C-- From nobody Tue Dec 18 08:18:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A68130EE3; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 08:18:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154514991867.5162.16575080866588778443.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 08:18:38 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] netconf - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 104 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 16:18:39 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Mahesh Jethanandani, a Chair of the netconf working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Configuration Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Mahesh Jethanandani Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 75 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: opsawg opsarea netmod anima Second Priority: bfd rtgwg babel tsvwg Third Priority: sacm saag People who must be present: Mahesh Jethanandani Kent Watsen Ignas Bagdonas Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please schedule session Mon-Thur. (netmod, opsarea, opsawg, and anima are conflict for the OPS AD). --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Dec 18 09:24:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA68131164; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:24:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id goDM6MOpin0c; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47076130EB8; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id A9858182015F; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:32:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [172.29.2.111]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6AAB21820053; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:32:41 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Jan Lindblad , =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs?= Lengyel Cc: "netconf\@ietf.org" , "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> References: <20181217.091505.218628572185200621.mbj@tail-f.com> <83b139a1-a0ab-5fbc-f702-7f0d50a46864@ericsson.com> <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jan Lindblad , =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs?= Lengyel , "netconf\@ietf.org" , "netmod\@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:24:28 +0100 Message-ID: <8736quu4s3.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:24:36 -0000 Jan Lindblad writes: > Hi, >> While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, where the system does create configuration in running, due to >> >> different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in >> the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by the operator >> the created config needs to be referenced from operator created config >> the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part of backup/restore > This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard many more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however. If we want to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the orders from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. Reliability, security, accountability are growing in importance, and they all play in this direction. > > We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the market > will take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible > to be standards compliant without having to implement design excuses > like these. I agree. Now that we have NMDA, things like this shouldn't be necessary. Lada > > Best Regards, > /jan > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Dec 18 09:59:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C82E131193; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:59:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <154515596361.5411.7153657725124836233@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:59:23 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:59:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Subscription to YANG Event Notifications Authors : Eric Voit Alexander Clemm Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Ambika Prasad Tripathy Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt Pages : 78 Date : 2018-12-18 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanisms enabling subscriber-specific subscriptions to a publisher's event streams. Applying these elements allows a subscriber to request for and receive a continuous, custom feed of publisher generated information. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 18 10:14:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 064D8131199 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:14:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CO0KKV6fjXuj for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:14:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1CC2131192 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:14:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id q2-v6so3907669lji.10 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:14:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qu5cjoPouQ9Yjc0F2YWLg9buenT433nBKSHe4MCisKM=; b=TxP8AeBfMbSYmrdSgDqK5mcBP/2tyCakdgTmLihWyiZ9mJ//H7CHXa9oCKHzu9U30k /kGOBYXqKZgCfPO3DyFmI7lTKDiFksmX/Cw4z+UrbkeBfs5e1VZ5F5ov5EblZ5C5N+kQ NY7JCvguHG7d0wCjerXYbLeOHsPMN0MtPDLyJiU5VcBPa8TxNja2ASRHTyX/bIhAkvtc vdNgzylNbKWdEDynEzbARkDNWCaE9grk8/KbNaMh16dvSfOBXAORdDaDanwMjWxKkZ+H ic4o4yl9OGtBv3++26YgGurnhlcFFCFV7JX5J30TRV16/YE8klWL/8Pmnt1CD4340Pfz KfQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qu5cjoPouQ9Yjc0F2YWLg9buenT433nBKSHe4MCisKM=; b=PQkxcIBz3P5Qp/ixqFNIYav39NZiv2qEm6Q3HPGtkr0UTApTz6e0DHE1tcc1GSGoO2 8pBG748ZuC9oeYdmT9F+/Bfn3EtlsyZk5wd5QE+YQOvinJ68CwhIwlPuXwRT4yE+6Zsu 1dRzEcELBNVwDUuk22BNXPjGSf6dUsLIxbq4e7uFcABnBAbApnqbNPsgnkbJ9TA0loBS UVpJuebHzC0MSftUMZK0AxqWU1VPkokkCEBzMrjVFoJdZNc5JdR767x2Bk6YAXmH7e1L R9NVkDGo6tbfq34o/zSxAYRhOdvI31VKIr2tit8MBX/AvUapucDlrFX/nOXD+dGO5uma 4jTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbfR1Axx+Zaz/tPf4dp5m15dYsO/37QrrzCszpKTt4RMIMvepfC 6xZI3R7iY4UuvfOVU9hu4XyQzV3nE5DM2tF4zTWtN7sAzPk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WasPhXkiOBIFVCPPcOjj+tashzGiJuAs8PP6pk6X7h3JL5Zux+iz7cT8T5TP25Xp+1S8sGLfWWahJjRJUh3c4= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:e02:: with SMTP id 2-v6mr9266886ljo.10.1545156887654; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:14:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181217.091505.218628572185200621.mbj@tail-f.com> <83b139a1-a0ab-5fbc-f702-7f0d50a46864@ericsson.com> <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:14:36 -0800 Message-ID: To: Jan Lindblad Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Lengyel?= , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000694c19057d4fdf47" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:14:52 -0000 --000000000000694c19057d4fdf47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 5:37 AM Jan Lindblad wrote: > Hi, > > While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, > where the system does create configuration in running, due to > > - different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in > - the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by > the operator > - the created config needs to be referenced from operator created > config > - the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part > of backup/restore > > This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard many > more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however. If we want > to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the orders > from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. > Reliability, security, accountability are growing in importance, and they > all play in this direction. > > We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the market will > take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible to be > standards compliant without having to implement design excuses like these. > > NMDA has a lot of room for proprietary mechanisms for converting to . Many times the features desired by engineers exceed the capabilities of YANG, such as a dynamic default leaf. YANG allows a simple constant, and no business logic to pick the default. This is a very valid use of "server auto-magic". Maybe a future version of YANG can improve the client visibility into this "auto-magic" Best Regards, > /jan > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --000000000000694c19057d4fdf47 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 5:37 AM Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com> wrote= :
Hi,
<= div>

While I agre= e with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, where the system does create configuration in running, due to

  • different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in
  • the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by the operator
  • the created config needs to be referenced from operator created config
  • the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part of backup/restore
Th= is is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard ma= ny more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however. If we wan= t to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the orders = from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. Reliabi= lity, security, accountability are growing in importance, and they all play= in this direction.

We may not need to standardize= rules to outlaw the above; the market will take care of that. What we need= to ensure is that it is possible to be standards compliant without having = to implement design excuses like these.


NMDA has a lot of room for proprietary = mechanisms for converting <running> to <intended>.
Ma= ny times the features desired by engineers exceed the capabilities of YANG,= such as
a dynamic default leaf.=C2=A0 YANG allows a simple const= ant, and no business logic to pick the default.
This is a very va= lid use of "server auto-magic".

Maybe a = future version of YANG can improve the client visibility into this "au= to-magic"


Best Regards,
=
/jan

Andy
=C2=A0

__________________________________= _____________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--000000000000694c19057d4fdf47-- From nobody Tue Dec 18 10:51:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD3F1200B3; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:51:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <154515911140.5178.7464570064107914684@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:51:51 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-15.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:51:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Dynamic subscription to YANG Events and Datastores over NETCONF Authors : Eric Voit Alexander Clemm Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Ambika Prasad Tripathy Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-15.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2018-12-18 Abstract: This document provides a NETCONF binding to the dynamic subscription capability of both subscribed notifications and YANG push. RFC Editor note: please replace the four references to pre-RFC normative drafts with the actual assigned RFC numbers. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-15 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-15 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-15 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Dec 19 01:30:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83BDE130DEF; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 01:30:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g1b14W7fzPFF; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 01:30:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EB69130DC8; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 01:30:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.147.40.143] (unknown [173.38.220.39]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CE4911AE0446; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:30:47 +0100 (CET) From: Jan Lindblad Message-Id: <6912DD4C-4C4E-45E8-9F0E-D8D8139F83AE@tail-f.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0AFC8023-444A-4AA3-AF3F-93CB26C61F8A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:30:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Lengyel?= , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" To: Andy Bierman References: <20181217.091505.218628572185200621.mbj@tail-f.com> <83b139a1-a0ab-5fbc-f702-7f0d50a46864@ericsson.com> <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 09:30:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0AFC8023-444A-4AA3-AF3F-93CB26C61F8A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, >> While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, = where the system does create configuration in running, due to >>=20 >> different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in >> the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by the = operator >> the created config needs to be referenced from operator created = config >> the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part = of backup/restore > This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard many = more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however. If we = want to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the = orders from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. = Reliability, security, accountability are growing in importance, and = they all play in this direction. >=20 > We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the market = will take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible to = be standards compliant without having to implement design excuses like = these. >=20 >=20 > NMDA has a lot of room for proprietary mechanisms for converting = to . > Many times the features desired by engineers exceed the capabilities = of YANG, such as > a dynamic default leaf. YANG allows a simple constant, and no = business logic to pick the default. > This is a very valid use of "server auto-magic". >=20 > Maybe a future version of YANG can improve the client visibility into = this "auto-magic" As you say, this is not uncommon. I usually recommend to leave out any = default statement, and write in the description what happens if this = leaf isn't set. The operator can then override the default by giving a = value.=20 While some more advanced features for default values may be of some = utility, the simplicity of YANG is also important. We don't want to make = the YANG models -- the interface contracts -- the new place for all = business logic. /jan --Apple-Mail=_0AFC8023-444A-4AA3-AF3F-93CB26C61F8A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi,

While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of = places, where the system does create configuration in running, due = to

  • different levels of automation and = autonomous algorithms kick-in
  • the created config = needs to be possible to be further modified by the operator
  • the created config needs to be referenced from operator = created config
  • the created config is not always = ephemeral, it might need to be part of = backup/restore
This is = only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard many more. The = road to hell is paved with good intentions, however. If we want to build = automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the orders from = managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. Reliability, = security, accountability are growing in importance, and they all play in = this direction.

We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the = market will take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is = possible to be standards compliant without having to implement design = excuses like these.


NMDA has a lot of room for proprietary = mechanisms for converting <running> to <intended>.
Many times the features desired by engineers exceed the = capabilities of YANG, such as
a dynamic default = leaf.  YANG allows a simple constant, and no business logic to pick = the default.
This is a very valid use of "server = auto-magic".

Maybe a future version of YANG can improve the client = visibility into this "auto-magic"

As you say, this is not uncommon. I usually = recommend to leave out any default statement, and write in the = description what happens if this leaf isn't set. The operator can then = override the default by giving a value. 

While some more advanced features for default = values may be of some utility, the simplicity of YANG is also important. = We don't want to make the YANG models -- the interface contracts -- the = new place for all business logic.

/jan

= --Apple-Mail=_0AFC8023-444A-4AA3-AF3F-93CB26C61F8A-- From nobody Wed Dec 19 05:52:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31CF3130E19 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 05:52:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TzX2PI9FaD6m for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 05:52:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D3112870E for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 05:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B43391AE0446 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:52:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:52:02 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181219.145202.1027346732573212384.mbj@tail-f.com> To: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <154515596361.5411.7153657725124836233@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <154515596361.5411.7153657725124836233@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:52:10 -0000 Hi, The YANG module in this draft doesn't compile. The new text for the XPath context contains double quote characters. I suggest you change them to single quotes. /martin internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > Title : Subscription to YANG Event Notifications > Authors : Eric Voit > Alexander Clemm > Alberto Gonzalez Prieto > Einar Nilsen-Nygaard > Ambika Prasad Tripathy > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt > Pages : 78 > Date : 2018-12-18 > > Abstract: > This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanisms > enabling subscriber-specific subscriptions to a publisher's event > streams. Applying these elements allows a subscriber to request for > and receive a continuous, custom feed of publisher generated > information. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Wed Dec 19 06:16:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1812212867A; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 06:16:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZGmtvwF9FbIB; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 06:16:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0631200B3; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 06:16:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 53BB3182015D; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:25:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.121]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 36C8D182015B; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:25:04 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Jan Lindblad , Andy Bierman Cc: "netconf\@ietf.org" , "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <6912DD4C-4C4E-45E8-9F0E-D8D8139F83AE@tail-f.com> References: <20181217.091505.218628572185200621.mbj@tail-f.com> <83b139a1-a0ab-5fbc-f702-7f0d50a46864@ericsson.com> <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> <6912DD4C-4C4E-45E8-9F0E-D8D8139F83AE@tail-f.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jan Lindblad , Andy Bierman , "netconf\@ietf.org" , "netmod\@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:16:10 +0100 Message-ID: <875zvpeh5h.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:16:17 -0000 Jan Lindblad writes: > Hi, >>> While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, where the system does create configuration in running, due to >>> >>> different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in >>> the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by the operator >>> the created config needs to be referenced from operator created config >>> the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part of backup/restore >> This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard many more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however. If we want to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the orders from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. Reliability, security, accountability are growing in importance, and they all play in this direction. >> >> We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the market will take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible to be standards compliant without having to implement design excuses like these. >> >> >> NMDA has a lot of room for proprietary mechanisms for converting to . >> Many times the features desired by engineers exceed the capabilities of YANG, such as >> a dynamic default leaf. YANG allows a simple constant, and no business logic to pick the default. >> This is a very valid use of "server auto-magic". >> >> Maybe a future version of YANG can improve the client visibility into this "auto-magic" > > As you say, this is not uncommon. I usually recommend to leave out any > default statement, and write in the description what happens if this > leaf isn't set. The operator can then override the default by giving a > value. Anyway, this is not a case where the server writes something on its own to a configuration datastore. > > While some more advanced features for default values may be of some > utility, the simplicity of YANG is also important. We don't want to > make the YANG models -- the interface contracts -- the new place for > all business logic. Absolutely. Lada > > /jan > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Dec 19 09:03:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20634130E66 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 09:03:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.491 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.491 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0N4swTvIxFOC for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 09:03:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76F53130E54 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 09:03:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=19376; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1545238986; x=1546448586; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=omTnQlX1ja+X7rri8R+Q/6sYkUQGsicGuuf8zlOWZVM=; b=UJxeKFayym+Ybk2IfDgXy3cDSkoGyA1vGKsgMhldH7tJUg44CTKiXe72 I+pc/3DsfVDWBoFn3aM2yfGJd5fHbUeV4IfH6+cfkugql56ApyVpcrqFy A0YqPHqTbiKTj9zEuxZz4rfiF7gULNV+/VfxaC3J0Ld4efzOMJjqZDRvo M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ADAAC2eBpc/49dJa1kGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBUQQBAQEBAQsBgQ1NKWaBAicKjAyLfIINl12BewsBARg?= =?us-ascii?q?BDIQBRgKCayI0CQ0BAwEBAgEBAm0cDIU8AQEBAQIBAQErQQkCBQcEAgEIDgM?= =?us-ascii?q?EAQEOGgcnCxQJCAIEDgUIgk9MgR1cCA+pU4RBQIUvjD8XgUA/hCODHgEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BFoIFhSECiUmFd5F0CQKHDopKIIFeTYRSilyOQYsaAhEUgScfOIFWcBUaIYJ?= =?us-ascii?q?sCYV/hRSFP0ExjBwrgQGBHwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,373,1539648000"; d="scan'208,217";a="497303417" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Dec 2018 17:03:05 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (xch-rtp-012.cisco.com [64.101.220.152]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wBJH34pb003507 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:03:05 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:03:04 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:03:04 -0500 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt Thread-Index: AQHUl6ITOAUHIVLokEag0HAs+7Dz76WGSNXw Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:03:03 +0000 Message-ID: <91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78c@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <154515596361.5411.7153657725124836233@ietfa.amsl.com> <20181219.145202.1027346732573212384.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20181219.145202.1027346732573212384.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.234] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78cXCHRTP013ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.152, xch-rtp-012.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:03:09 -0000 --_000_91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78cXCHRTP013ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Martin, I have the version addressing the double quotes here: https://github.com/netconf-wg/rfc5277bis/blob/master/draft-ietf-netconf-sub= scribed-notifications-20.xml Before I upload this -20, I want to see if you have concerns with the Pyang= Validation issue shown below. Reshad mentioned that other users have see= n it. Is this something which should stop me from posting? Eric ---------------------------------- ietf-subscribed-notifications@2018-12-19.yang Pyang Validation Traceback (most recent call last): pyang", line 444, in run() pyang", line 219, in run repos =3D pyang.FileRepository(path, no_path_recurse=3Do.no_path_recurs= e) __init__.py", line 408, in __init__ location =3D pip.locations.distutils_scheme('pyang') AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'locations' Pyang Output No warnings or errors > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf On Behalf Of Martin Bjorklund > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 8:52 AM > To: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifica= tions- > 19.txt > > Hi, > > The YANG module in this draft doesn't compile. The new text for the XPat= h > context contains double quote characters. I suggest you change them to s= ingle > quotes. > > > /martin > > > internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories. > > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > > > Title : Subscription to YANG Event Notifications > > Authors : Eric Voit > > Alexander Clemm > > Alberto Gonzalez Prieto > > Einar Nilsen-Nygaard > > Ambika Prasad Tripathy > > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-1= 9.txt > > Pages : 78 > > Date : 2018-12-18 > > > > Abstract: > > This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanisms > > enabling subscriber-specific subscriptions to a publisher's event > > streams. Applying these elements allows a subscriber to request for > > and receive a continuous, custom feed of publisher generated > > information. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notific > > ations/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notification > > s-19 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-no > > tifications-19 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notif= i > > cations-19 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.i= etf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --_000_91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78cXCHRTP013ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Martin,

 

I have the version addressing the double quotes h= ere:

https://= github.com/netconf-wg/rfc5277bis/blob/master/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-= notifications-20.xml

 

Before I upload this -20, I want to see if you ha= ve concerns with the Pyang Validation issue shown below.   Reshad= mentioned that other users have seen it.  Is this something which sho= uld stop me from posting?

 

Eric

 

----------------------------------

ietf-subscribed-notifications@2018-12-19.yang<= /p>

Pyang Validation

Traceback = (most recent call last):

pyang"= ;, line 444, in <module>

 &nbs= p;  run()

pyang"= ;, line 219, in run

 &nbs= p;  repos =3D pyang.FileRepository(path, no_path_recurse=3Do.no_path_r= ecurse)

__init__.p= y", line 408, in __init__

 &nbs= p;  location =3D pip.locations.distutils_scheme('pyang')

AttributeE= rror: 'module' object has no attribute 'locations'

Pyang Output

No warning= s or errors

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org&g= t; On Behalf Of Martin Bjorklund

> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 8:52 AM

> To: netconf@ietf.org

> Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-iet= f-netconf-subscribed-notifications-

> 19.txt

>

> Hi,

>

> The YANG module in this draft doesn't compil= e.  The new text for the XPath

> context contains double quote characters.&nb= sp; I suggest you change them to single

> quotes.

>

>

> /martin

>

>

> = internet-drafts@ietf.= org wrote:

> >

> > A New Internet-Draft is available from = the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.

> > This draft is a work item of the Networ= k Configuration WG of the IETF.

> >

> >      &nbs= p;  Title           = : Subscription to YANG Event Notifications

> >      &nbs= p;  Authors         : Eric Voi= t

> >      &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;       Alexander Clemm

> >      &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;       Alberto Gonzalez Prieto

> >      &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;       Einar Nilsen-Nygaard

> >       &nb= sp;            =        Ambika Prasad Tripathy

> >       &nb= sp; Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf= -subscribed-notifications-19.txt

> >       &nb= sp; Pages           : 78<= /p>

> >       &nb= sp; Date            = : 2018-12-18

> >

> > Abstract:

> >    This document defines= a YANG data model and associated mechanisms

> >    enabling subscriber-s= pecific subscriptions to a publisher's event

> >    streams.  Applyi= ng these elements allows a subscriber to request for

> >    and receive a continu= ous, custom feed of publisher generated

> >    information.

> >

> >

> > The IETF datatracker status page for th= is draft is:

> > https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notific

> > ations/

> >

> > There are also htmlized versions availa= ble at:

> > https://tools.ietf.or= g/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notification

> > s-19

> > https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-no

> > tifications-19

> >

> > A diff from the previous version is ava= ilable at:

> > https://www.ietf.org/= rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifi

> > cations-19

> >

> >

> > Please note that it may take a couple o= f minutes from the time of

> > submission until the htmlized version a= nd diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

> >

> > Internet-Drafts are also available by a= nonymous FTP at:

> > ftp://ftp.ie= tf.org/internet-drafts/

> >

> > _______________________________________= ________

> > Netconf mailing list

> > Netconf@ietf.org<= /a>

> > https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/netconf

> >

>

> ____________________________________________= ___

> Netconf mailing list

> Netconf@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/netconf

--_000_91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78cXCHRTP013ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Dec 19 10:46:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4031F130EBB for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:46:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 988Gc5wkL5WO for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:46:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x236.google.com (mail-lj1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF046130EBA for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x236.google.com with SMTP id q2-v6so7176902lji.10 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:46:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=XPB8xIbAOgKImY7DsUU9U0/1nQUI0FWFHmZc+36soos=; b=igjxdSf3Y2uWj06m507+OPGlYgjmrWZyDzNzF6X6VWEhJ8LgqcB1pX4vHaCKbFOoP/ cJg0jZRNB7UyNI+B0lJog+iE5iSvNet5ehndmU92ShXg54G5mBDl8SNgPXCfnhXaMP9I OKFE4JDduMcZE6NbFr9vqdgFLCwdPfVHGdqUCQhZxkxygBrM2bob1Kvai5dtL1doJXa6 wwLUr59kBF+cpTSN+RWufsb+DsAvAf5MVuGMFo+QL0DehTSntfatGDyvwYXbE/i28rg9 stq+OrM6cmKGuLTgTvvKIJBctvjTsQcHOXg0SA+XNesNSTKKadVWpkAmYyOOekq3UfFl yoSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=XPB8xIbAOgKImY7DsUU9U0/1nQUI0FWFHmZc+36soos=; b=Qdrdw3M2CPUZJywfO9ngWGy9hbLEWkdg17DkVdUDqoZ/rK9z0QGfOpQ6yxXtWzxiUa CMoLKMnlf/OmhDWb2qn1iDVhzUiLxzdg9QOV39WTl1KBbtdFHIQkDT37WdfRaHDQf7TU UstrDDxzT+Nc5AaZRZLqjGa8trxsAbKoPvDlFy8iJNb92IUziMuuoF6flu7wi98NQEVP dhEVchdVXpLKHi4Yd1ViSZVfVTpqwZpLGaVbYWzqCUUdxOchKXNezE1Tw8Y6IpFwkq1s tuP4FNBvVfACTOKfOVNHgu1PoFabhbCoQPIdCKsn5dDZyqwOHiWujww2qgTccmfOuu2e uvaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYK2Md7D+9Zmq4tWzt5wlyx6cz80+Fd+TfWRznAxYdOEdXExM6D q+oTSjODWeE3ie3gqnSTXmP14nAAfOW6k5aQba/h0A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/UY+U4ETEVEL+nmSn0urGiypQVUbmveDjvs5ZC3yXcTeUTmTnNNNdKddnOXFfXsSHJzFOWkjvkpHKY3siqRWDo= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9603:: with SMTP id v3-v6mr11361630ljh.15.1545245200812; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:46:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181217.091505.218628572185200621.mbj@tail-f.com> <83b139a1-a0ab-5fbc-f702-7f0d50a46864@ericsson.com> <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> <6912DD4C-4C4E-45E8-9F0E-D8D8139F83AE@tail-f.com> <875zvpeh5h.fsf@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <875zvpeh5h.fsf@nic.cz> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:46:29 -0800 Message-ID: To: Jan Lindblad , Andy Bierman , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004931b4057d646fa5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 18:46:46 -0000 --0000000000004931b4057d646fa5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:16 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Jan Lindblad writes: > > > Hi, > >>> While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, > where the system does create configuration in running, due to > >>> > >>> different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in > >>> the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by the > operator > >>> the created config needs to be referenced from operator created config > >>> the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part > of backup/restore > >> This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard many > more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however. If we want > to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the orders > from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. > Reliability, security, accountability are growing in importance, and they > all play in this direction. > >> > >> We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the market > will take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible to be > standards compliant without having to implement design excuses like these. > >> > >> > >> NMDA has a lot of room for proprietary mechanisms for converting > to . > >> Many times the features desired by engineers exceed the capabilities of > YANG, such as > >> a dynamic default leaf. YANG allows a simple constant, and no business > logic to pick the default. > >> This is a very valid use of "server auto-magic". > >> > >> Maybe a future version of YANG can improve the client visibility into > this "auto-magic" > > > > As you say, this is not uncommon. I usually recommend to leave out any > > default statement, and write in the description what happens if this > > leaf isn't set. The operator can then override the default by giving a > > value. > > Anyway, this is not a case where the server writes something on its own > to a configuration datastore. > I don't think it is a problem if NMDA or non-NMDA servers write to . Just part of the complexity that is baked in -- NMDA does nothing to help the client know why is different than anyway. > > > > > While some more advanced features for default values may be of some > > utility, the simplicity of YANG is also important. We don't want to > > make the YANG models -- the interface contracts -- the new place for > > all business logic. > > Absolutely. > > I am not proposing YANG needs a new default-stmt. There is a description-stmt and vendors can add their own extensions to flag auto-magic data nodes. > Lada > > > > > /jan > Andy > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > --0000000000004931b4057d646fa5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:16 AM Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com> writes:

> Hi,
>>> While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of = places, where the system does create configuration in running, due to
>>>
>>> different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-= in
>>> the created config needs to be possible to be further modified= by the operator
>>> the created config needs to be referenced from operator create= d config
>>> the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to b= e part of backup/restore
>> This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I ha= ve heard many more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however= . If we want to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating = the orders from managers from a system's own operational view is key, I= MO. Reliability, security, accountability are growing in importance, and th= ey all play in this direction.
>>
>> We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the mark= et will take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible to= be standards compliant without having to implement design excuses like the= se.
>>
>>
>> NMDA has a lot of room for proprietary mechanisms for converting &= lt;running> to <intended>.
>> Many times the features desired by engineers exceed the capabiliti= es of YANG, such as
>> a dynamic default leaf.=C2=A0 YANG allows a simple constant, and n= o business logic to pick the default.
>> This is a very valid use of "server auto-magic".
>>
>> Maybe a future version of YANG can improve the client visibility i= nto this "auto-magic"
>
> As you say, this is not uncommon. I usually recommend to leave out any=
> default statement, and write in the description what happens if this > leaf isn't set. The operator can then override the default by givi= ng a
> value.

Anyway, this is not a case where the server writes something on its own
to a configuration datastore.


I don't think it is a problem if NMDA or non-NMDA servers write t= o <running>.
Just part of the complexity that is baked in -= - NMDA does nothing to help the client know
why <running> i= s different than <intended> anyway.
=C2=A0

>
> While some more advanced features for default values may be of some > utility, the simplicity of YANG is also important. We don't want t= o
> make the YANG models -- the interface contracts -- the new place for > all business logic.

Absolutely.


I am not proposing YANG needs a new de= fault-stmt. There is a description-stmt
and vendors can add their= own extensions to flag auto-magic data nodes.
=C2=A0
Lada

>
> /jan


Andy
=C2=A0
>
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
--0000000000004931b4057d646fa5-- From nobody Wed Dec 19 11:37:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4832A130EBF for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:37:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ed-a1B4zMinT for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:37:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5011200B3 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:37:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-camoberg-nitro7.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.220.46]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A439A1AE0446; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 20:37:12 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Carl Moberg In-Reply-To: <91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78c@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 20:37:10 +0100 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <154515596361.5411.7153657725124836233@ietfa.amsl.com> <20181219.145202.1027346732573212384.mbj@tail-f.com> <91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78c@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:37:19 -0000 Eric, No, it=E2=80=99s a bug on my side. Working to fix now. Apologies. > On Dec 19, 2018, at 6:03 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) = wrote: >=20 > Thanks Martin, > =20 > I have the version addressing the double quotes here: > = https://github.com/netconf-wg/rfc5277bis/blob/master/draft-ietf-netconf-su= bscribed-notifications-20.xml > =20 > Before I upload this -20, I want to see if you have concerns with the = Pyang Validation issue shown below. Reshad mentioned that other users = have seen it. Is this something which should stop me from posting? > =20 > Eric > =20 > ---------------------------------- > ietf-subscribed-notifications@2018-12-19.yang >=20 > Pyang Validation >=20 > Traceback (most recent call last): >=20 > pyang", line 444, in >=20 > run() >=20 > pyang", line 219, in run >=20 > repos =3D pyang.FileRepository(path, = no_path_recurse=3Do.no_path_recurse) >=20 > __init__.py", line 408, in __init__ >=20 > location =3D pip.locations.distutils_scheme('pyang') >=20 > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'locations' >=20 > Pyang Output >=20 > No warnings or errors >=20 > =20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Netconf On Behalf Of Martin = Bjorklund > > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 8:52 AM > > To: netconf@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications- > > 19.txt > > > > Hi, > > > > The YANG module in this draft doesn't compile. The new text for the = XPath > > context contains double quote characters. I suggest you change them = to single > > quotes. > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > > > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the = IETF. > > > > > > Title : Subscription to YANG Event Notifications > > > Authors : Eric Voit > > > Alexander Clemm > > > Alberto Gonzalez Prieto > > > Einar Nilsen-Nygaard > > > Ambika Prasad Tripathy > > > Filename : = draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt > > > Pages : 78 > > > Date : 2018-12-18 > > > > > > Abstract: > > > This document defines a YANG data model and associated = mechanisms > > > enabling subscriber-specific subscriptions to a publisher's = event > > > streams. Applying these elements allows a subscriber to = request for > > > and receive a continuous, custom feed of publisher generated > > > information. > > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notific > > > ations/ > > > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > > = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notification > > > s-19 > > > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-no > > > tifications-19 > > > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > > = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifi > > > cations-19 > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org. > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Netconf mailing list > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed Dec 19 11:40:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF921200B3 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:40:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T1vOfAp05R92 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 469DC130EBF for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7832C1AE0446; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 20:40:27 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 20:40:27 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181219.204027.1134533539828819405.mbj@tail-f.com> To: evoit@cisco.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78c@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <154515596361.5411.7153657725124836233@ietfa.amsl.com> <20181219.145202.1027346732573212384.mbj@tail-f.com> <91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78c@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:40:32 -0000 "Eric Voit (evoit)" wrote: > Thanks Martin, > > > > I have the version addressing the double quotes here: > > https://github.com/netconf-wg/rfc5277bis/blob/master/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-20.xml > > > > Before I upload this -20, I want to see if you have concerns with the Pyang Validation issue shown below. Reshad mentioned that other users have seen it. Is this something which should stop me from posting? > You get this error b/c you are running an old version of pyang that isn't compatible with the (newer) version of pip on your system. I suggest you upgrade pyang. /martin > > > Eric > > > > ---------------------------------- > ietf-subscribed-notifications@2018-12-19.yang > Pyang Validation > Traceback (most recent call last): > pyang", line 444, in > run() > pyang", line 219, in run > repos = pyang.FileRepository(path, no_path_recurse=o.no_path_recurse) > __init__.py", line 408, in __init__ > location = pip.locations.distutils_scheme('pyang') > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'locations' > Pyang Output > No warnings or errors > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Netconf On Behalf Of Martin Bjorklund > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 8:52 AM > > > To: netconf@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications- > > > 19.txt > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > The YANG module in this draft doesn't compile. The new text for the XPath > > > context contains double quote characters. I suggest you change them to single > > > quotes. > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > > > > > > > Title : Subscription to YANG Event Notifications > > > > Authors : Eric Voit > > > > Alexander Clemm > > > > Alberto Gonzalez Prieto > > > > Einar Nilsen-Nygaard > > > > Ambika Prasad Tripathy > > > > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt > > > > Pages : 78 > > > > Date : 2018-12-18 > > > > > > > > Abstract: > > > > This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanisms > > > > enabling subscriber-specific subscriptions to a publisher's event > > > > streams. Applying these elements allows a subscriber to request for > > > > and receive a continuous, custom feed of publisher generated > > > > information. > > > > > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notific > > > > ations/ > > > > > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notification > > > > s-19 > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-no > > > > tifications-19 > > > > > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifi > > > > cations-19 > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Netconf mailing list > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed Dec 19 13:00:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59677130E86; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:59:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <154525319831.1880.17677342200777508450@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:59:58 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-20.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 20:59:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Subscription to YANG Event Notifications Authors : Eric Voit Alexander Clemm Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Ambika Prasad Tripathy Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-20.txt Pages : 78 Date : 2018-12-19 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanisms enabling subscriber-specific subscriptions to a publisher's event streams. Applying these elements allows a subscriber to request for and receive a continuous, custom feed of publisher generated information. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-20 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Dec 19 13:27:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82221130ED8 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:27:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.065, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lpf0jsQsOEJH for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0DDD130E86 for ; 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19 Dec 2018 21:27:08 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com (xch-aln-005.cisco.com [173.36.7.15]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wBJLR808003916 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 21:27:08 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) by XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com (173.36.7.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:27:07 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-005.cisco.com ([173.37.102.15]) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com ([173.37.102.15]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:27:07 -0600 From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: yanglint version used by datatracker (WAS draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-20.txt) Thread-Index: AQHUl+GYZJYttCzWok66UYwCmjZGiQ== Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 21:27:07 +0000 Message-ID: <1183CB53-3D84-4E9F-93BD-EE86436D94A5@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.4.181110 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [161.44.212.167] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.15, xch-aln-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] yanglint version used by datatracker (WAS draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-20.txt) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 21:27:12 -0000 U28gZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIgc3RpbGwgaGFzIHlhbmdsaW50IHNob3dpbmcgdGhlc2UgZXJyb3JzOg0K eWFuZ2xpbnQgMC4xNC44MDogeWFuZ2xpbnQgLS12ZXJib3NlIC1wIHtyZmNsaWJ9IC1wIHtkcmFm dGxpYn0gLXAge3RtcGxpYn0ge21vZGVsfSAtaToNCmVyciA6IFRoZSBsZWFmcmVmIGxlYWYgaXMg Y29uZmlnIGJ1dCByZWZlcnMgdG8gYSBub24tY29uZmlnIGxlYWYuICgvaWV0Zi1zdWJzY3JpYmVk LW5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbnM6c3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucy9zdWJzY3JpcHRpb24vdGFyZ2V0L3N0cmVhbS9z dHJlYW0pDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgZHVlIHRvIGlzc3VlIGJlbG93IHdoaWNoIHdhcyBmaXhlZCBpbiB5 YW5nbGludCBpbiAwLjE2LjU5DQpodHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vQ0VTTkVUL2xpYnlhbmcvaXNz dWVzLzY0NA0KDQpEbyB3ZSBqdXN0IG5lZWQgdG8gb3BlbiBhIHRpY2tldCB0byBoYXZlIGEgbmV3 ZXIgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiB5YW5nbGludD8NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNClJlc2hhZC4NCg0K77u/T24gMjAx OC0xMi0xOSwgNDowMCBQTSwgIk5ldGNvbmYgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIGludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0Bp ZXRmLm9yZyIgPG5ldGNvbmYtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgaW50ZXJuZXQt ZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KICAgIA0KICAgIEEgTmV3IEludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0 IGlzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBvbi1saW5lIEludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0cyBkaXJlY3Rvcmll cy4NCiAgICBUaGlzIGRyYWZ0IGlzIGEgd29yayBpdGVtIG9mIHRoZSBOZXR3b3JrIENvbmZpZ3Vy YXRpb24gV0cgb2YgdGhlIElFVEYuDQogICAgDQogICAgICAgICAgICBUaXRsZSAgICAgICAgICAg OiBTdWJzY3JpcHRpb24gdG8gWUFORyBFdmVudCBOb3RpZmljYXRpb25zDQogICAgICAgICAgICBB dXRob3JzICAgICAgICAgOiBFcmljIFZvaXQNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IEFsZXhhbmRlciBDbGVtbQ0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgQWxiZXJ0byBH b256YWxleiBQcmlldG8NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEVpbmFyIE5pbHNl bi1OeWdhYXJkDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBBbWJpa2EgUHJhc2FkIFRy aXBhdGh5DQogICAgCUZpbGVuYW1lICAgICAgICA6IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0Y29uZi1zdWJzY3Jp YmVkLW5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbnMtMjAudHh0DQogICAgCVBhZ2VzICAgICAgICAgICA6IDc4DQogICAg CURhdGUgICAgICAgICAgICA6IDIwMTgtMTItMTkNCiAgICANCiAgICBBYnN0cmFjdDoNCiAgICAg ICBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGRlZmluZXMgYSBZQU5HIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwgYW5kIGFzc29jaWF0ZWQg bWVjaGFuaXNtcw0KICAgICAgIGVuYWJsaW5nIHN1YnNjcmliZXItc3BlY2lmaWMgc3Vic2NyaXB0 aW9ucyB0byBhIHB1Ymxpc2hlcidzIGV2ZW50DQogICAgICAgc3RyZWFtcy4gIEFwcGx5aW5nIHRo ZXNlIGVsZW1lbnRzIGFsbG93cyBhIHN1YnNjcmliZXIgdG8gcmVxdWVzdCBmb3INCiAgICAgICBh bmQgcmVjZWl2ZSBhIGNvbnRpbnVvdXMsIGN1c3RvbSBmZWVkIG9mIHB1Ymxpc2hlciBnZW5lcmF0 ZWQNCiAgICAgICBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbi4NCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICBUaGUgSUVURiBkYXRhdHJh Y2tlciBzdGF0dXMgcGFnZSBmb3IgdGhpcyBkcmFmdCBpczoNCiAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFj a2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldGNvbmYtc3Vic2NyaWJlZC1ub3RpZmljYXRp b25zLw0KICAgIA0KICAgIFRoZXJlIGFyZSBhbHNvIGh0bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb25zIGF2YWlsYWJs ZSBhdDoNCiAgICBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRjb25m LXN1YnNjcmliZWQtbm90aWZpY2F0aW9ucy0yMA0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRjb25mLXN1YnNjcmliZWQtbm90aWZpY2F0aW9u cy0yMA0KICAgIA0KICAgIEEgZGlmZiBmcm9tIHRoZSBwcmV2aW91cyB2ZXJzaW9uIGlzIGF2YWls YWJsZSBhdDoNCiAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9yZmNkaWZmP3VybDI9ZHJhZnQtaWV0 Zi1uZXRjb25mLXN1YnNjcmliZWQtbm90aWZpY2F0aW9ucy0yMA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIFBs ZWFzZSBub3RlIHRoYXQgaXQgbWF5IHRha2UgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0 aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24NCiAgICB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlm ZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIEludGVybmV0LURy YWZ0cyBhcmUgYWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgYnkgYW5vbnltb3VzIEZUUCBhdDoNCiAgICBmdHA6Ly9m dHAuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzLw0KICAgIA0KICAgIF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgTmV0Y29uZiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QN CiAgICBOZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnDQogICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9s aXN0aW5mby9uZXRjb25mDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Dec 19 15:37:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5FB130E86 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:37:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iXg0BlHAHzk8 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:37:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C4C12D4F0 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:37:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-camoberg-nitro7.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.220.46]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5A69A1AE0446; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:37:16 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Carl Moberg In-Reply-To: <20181219.204027.1134533539828819405.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:37:15 +0100 Cc: evoit@cisco.com, netconf@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3C140E32-5CD1-4F13-A025-F22ABAE54CBB@tail-f.com> References: <154515596361.5411.7153657725124836233@ietfa.amsl.com> <20181219.145202.1027346732573212384.mbj@tail-f.com> <91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78c@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20181219.204027.1134533539828819405.mbj@tail-f.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:37:23 -0000 > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:40 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >=20 > "Eric Voit (evoit)" wrote: >> Thanks Martin, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> I have the version addressing the double quotes here: >>=20 >> = https://github.com/netconf-wg/rfc5277bis/blob/master/draft-ietf-netconf-su= bscribed-notifications-20.xml >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Before I upload this -20, I want to see if you have concerns with the = Pyang Validation issue shown below. Reshad mentioned that other users = have seen it. Is this something which should stop me from posting? >>=20 >=20 > You get this error b/c you are running an old version of pyang that > isn't compatible with the (newer) version of pip on your system. I > suggest you upgrade pyang. >=20 Yup, thanks. Upgraded and yangvalidator.org now works (better). From nobody Wed Dec 19 15:46:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A408130E86 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:46:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.065, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TX08SaWuy68o for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:46:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B690212D4F0 for ; 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d="scan'208";a="215040330" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Dec 2018 23:46:07 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (xch-aln-004.cisco.com [173.36.7.14]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wBJNk787022089 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:46:07 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:46:06 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-005.cisco.com ([173.37.102.15]) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com ([173.37.102.15]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:46:06 -0600 From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" To: Carl Moberg , =?utf-8?B?TWFydGluIEJqw7Zya2x1bmQ=?= CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt Thread-Index: AQHUlvtyiIAPgkY8IUe2KPTAUo4ZuKWGeqcAgAA1X4CAACv6gIAAQimA//+uqAA= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:46:06 +0000 Message-ID: <7D59A993-EE20-429C-B5A0-C18F8B405EE8@cisco.com> References: <154515596361.5411.7153657725124836233@ietfa.amsl.com> <20181219.145202.1027346732573212384.mbj@tail-f.com> <91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78c@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20181219.204027.1134533539828819405.mbj@tail-f.com> <3C140E32-5CD1-4F13-A025-F22ABAE54CBB@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <3C140E32-5CD1-4F13-A025-F22ABAE54CBB@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.4.181110 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [161.44.212.167] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7BCBAD5689B9BC4D91B4E379F15ABE6C@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.14, xch-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:46:11 -0000 SGkgQ2FybCwNCg0KWWFuZ3ZhbGlkYXRvci5vcmcgaGFzIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgZXJyb3JzIGZv ciAtMjAsIHB5YW5nIGlzIGZpbmUgdGhvdWdoLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KUmVzaGFkLg0KDQpDb25m ZGMgT3V0cHV0DQppZXRmLW5ldHdvcmstaW5zdGFuY2VAMjAxOC0wMy0yMC55YW5nOjE4OiBlcnJv cjogbW9kdWxlICdpZXRmLXlhbmctc2NoZW1hLW1vdW50JyBub3QgZm91bmQNCnlhbmdsaW50IFZh bGlkYXRpb24NCmVyciA6IERhdGEgbW9kZWwgImlldGYteWFuZy1zY2hlbWEtbW91bnQiIG5vdCBm b3VuZC4NCmVyciA6IEltcG9ydGluZyAiaWV0Zi15YW5nLXNjaGVtYS1tb3VudCIgbW9kdWxlIGlu dG8gImlldGYtbmV0d29yay1pbnN0YW5jZSIgZmFpbGVkLg0KZXJyIDogTW9kdWxlICJpZXRmLW5l dHdvcmstaW5zdGFuY2UiIHBhcnNpbmcgZmFpbGVkLg0KZXJyIDogSW1wb3J0aW5nICJpZXRmLW5l dHdvcmstaW5zdGFuY2UiIG1vZHVsZSBpbnRvICJpZXRmLXN1YnNjcmliZWQtbm90aWZpY2F0aW9u cyIgZmFpbGVkLg0KZXJyIDogTW9kdWxlICJpZXRmLXN1YnNjcmliZWQtbm90aWZpY2F0aW9ucyIg cGFyc2luZyBmYWlsZWQuDQoNCg0K77u/T24gMjAxOC0xMi0xOSwgNjozNyBQTSwgIk5ldGNvbmYg b24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIENhcmwgTW9iZXJnIiA8bmV0Y29uZi1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIG9uIGJl aGFsZiBvZiBjYWxsZUB0YWlsLWYuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgID4gT24g RGVjIDE5LCAyMDE4LCBhdCA4OjQwIFBNLCBNYXJ0aW4gQmpvcmtsdW5kIDxtYmpAdGFpbC1mLmNv bT4gd3JvdGU6DQogICAgPiANCiAgICA+ICJFcmljIFZvaXQgKGV2b2l0KSIgPGV2b2l0QGNpc2Nv LmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQogICAgPj4gVGhhbmtzIE1hcnRpbiwNCiAgICA+PiANCiAgICA+PiANCiAg ICA+PiANCiAgICA+PiBJIGhhdmUgdGhlIHZlcnNpb24gYWRkcmVzc2luZyB0aGUgZG91YmxlIHF1 b3RlcyBoZXJlOg0KICAgID4+IA0KICAgID4+IGh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0aHViLmNvbS9uZXRjb25mLXdn L3JmYzUyNzdiaXMvYmxvYi9tYXN0ZXIvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRjb25mLXN1YnNjcmliZWQtbm90 aWZpY2F0aW9ucy0yMC54bWwNCiAgICA+PiANCiAgICA+PiANCiAgICA+PiANCiAgICA+PiBCZWZv cmUgSSB1cGxvYWQgdGhpcyAtMjAsIEkgd2FudCB0byBzZWUgaWYgeW91IGhhdmUgY29uY2VybnMg d2l0aCB0aGUgUHlhbmcgVmFsaWRhdGlvbiBpc3N1ZSBzaG93biBiZWxvdy4gICBSZXNoYWQgbWVu dGlvbmVkIHRoYXQgb3RoZXIgdXNlcnMgaGF2ZSBzZWVuIGl0LiAgSXMgdGhpcyBzb21ldGhpbmcg d2hpY2ggc2hvdWxkIHN0b3AgbWUgZnJvbSBwb3N0aW5nPw0KICAgID4+IA0KICAgID4gDQogICAg PiBZb3UgZ2V0IHRoaXMgZXJyb3IgYi9jIHlvdSBhcmUgcnVubmluZyBhbiBvbGQgdmVyc2lvbiBv ZiBweWFuZyB0aGF0DQogICAgPiBpc24ndCBjb21wYXRpYmxlIHdpdGggdGhlIChuZXdlcikgdmVy c2lvbiBvZiBwaXAgb24geW91ciBzeXN0ZW0uICBJDQogICAgPiBzdWdnZXN0IHlvdSB1cGdyYWRl IHB5YW5nLg0KICAgID4gDQogICAgDQogICAgIFl1cCwgdGhhbmtzLiBVcGdyYWRlZCBhbmQgeWFu Z3ZhbGlkYXRvci5vcmcgbm93IHdvcmtzIChiZXR0ZXIpLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIF9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgTmV0Y29uZiBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QNCiAgICBOZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnDQogICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRjb25mDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Dec 19 15:57:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E896F129AB8 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:57:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id usVyoxo9XCjX for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:57:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D890F1200D7 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-camoberg-nitro7.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.220.46]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00BCB1AE0446; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:57:11 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Carl Moberg In-Reply-To: <7D59A993-EE20-429C-B5A0-C18F8B405EE8@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:57:10 +0100 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <154515596361.5411.7153657725124836233@ietfa.amsl.com> <20181219.145202.1027346732573212384.mbj@tail-f.com> <91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78c@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20181219.204027.1134533539828819405.mbj@tail-f.com> <3C140E32-5CD1-4F13-A025-F22ABAE54CBB@tail-f.com> <7D59A993-EE20-429C-B5A0-C18F8B405EE8@cisco.com> To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:57:15 -0000 Reshad, Yes, so the YANG modules in the draft tries to import the = 'ietf-yang-schema-mount=E2=80=99 and 'ietf-network-instance' YANG = modules which are not available in the repo in the validator. The reason = why we don=E2=80=99t keep them in the repo is that the specification = that defines those modules (draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount, and = draft-ietf-rtgwg-ni-model respectively) are not published yet and we = only keep published YANG modules. The easiest way forward is probably to extract the YANG modules from = your draft (perhaps using the https://github.com/xym-tool/xym tool), zip = up your module with the imported modules and validate them using the = =E2=80=9CUpload multiple YANG files or a zip archive=E2=80=9D option. I am considering storing draft-level YANG files (they are many and = broken :-) in the validator repo as well. Maybe time to revisit that. > On Dec 20, 2018, at 12:46 AM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Carl, >=20 > Yangvalidator.org has the following errors for -20, pyang is fine = though. >=20 > Regards, > Reshad. >=20 > Confdc Output > ietf-network-instance@2018-03-20.yang:18: error: module = 'ietf-yang-schema-mount' not found > yanglint Validation > err : Data model "ietf-yang-schema-mount" not found. > err : Importing "ietf-yang-schema-mount" module into = "ietf-network-instance" failed. > err : Module "ietf-network-instance" parsing failed. > err : Importing "ietf-network-instance" module into = "ietf-subscribed-notifications" failed. > err : Module "ietf-subscribed-notifications" parsing failed. >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 2018-12-19, 6:37 PM, "Netconf on behalf of Carl Moberg" = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:40 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>=20 >> "Eric Voit (evoit)" wrote: >>> Thanks Martin, >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I have the version addressing the double quotes here: >>>=20 >>> = https://github.com/netconf-wg/rfc5277bis/blob/master/draft-ietf-netconf-su= bscribed-notifications-20.xml >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Before I upload this -20, I want to see if you have concerns with = the Pyang Validation issue shown below. Reshad mentioned that other = users have seen it. Is this something which should stop me from = posting? >>>=20 >>=20 >> You get this error b/c you are running an old version of pyang that >> isn't compatible with the (newer) version of pip on your system. I >> suggest you upgrade pyang. >>=20 >=20 > Yup, thanks. Upgraded and yangvalidator.org now works (better). >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Dec 19 16:13:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F75129AB8 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:13:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ggvzr1erzGTH for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:13:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F041200D7 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:13:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-camoberg-nitro7.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.220.46]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BF5261AE0446; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 01:13:11 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Carl Moberg In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 01:13:10 +0100 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , lhotka@nic.cz Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3E762C43-7F3A-4EB3-A6CB-22006950D57B@tail-f.com> References: <154515596361.5411.7153657725124836233@ietfa.amsl.com> <20181219.145202.1027346732573212384.mbj@tail-f.com> <91e0bc7bee2e4b56bc968565fa43d78c@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20181219.204027.1134533539828819405.mbj@tail-f.com> <3C140E32-5CD1-4F13-A025-F22ABAE54CBB@tail-f.com> <7D59A993-EE20-429C-B5A0-C18F8B405EE8@cisco.com> To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:13:18 -0000 Actually, and to put a finer point on the below. I do extract YANG = modules from drafts, but only store those that pass extraction and = validation. And it turns out that validation of the module extracted = from https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-12.txt fails = because the file name in the CODE BEGINS marker is missing the = =E2=80=9C.yang=E2=80=9D suffix which violates = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6087#section-3.1. > On Dec 20, 2018, at 12:57 AM, Carl Moberg wrote: >=20 > Reshad, >=20 > Yes, so the YANG modules in the draft tries to import the = 'ietf-yang-schema-mount=E2=80=99 and 'ietf-network-instance' YANG = modules which are not available in the repo in the validator. The reason = why we don=E2=80=99t keep them in the repo is that the specification = that defines those modules (draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount, and = draft-ietf-rtgwg-ni-model respectively) are not published yet and we = only keep published YANG modules. >=20 > The easiest way forward is probably to extract the YANG modules from = your draft (perhaps using the https://github.com/xym-tool/xym tool), zip = up your module with the imported modules and validate them using the = =E2=80=9CUpload multiple YANG files or a zip archive=E2=80=9D option. >=20 > I am considering storing draft-level YANG files (they are many and = broken :-) in the validator repo as well. Maybe time to revisit that. >=20 >> On Dec 20, 2018, at 12:46 AM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Carl, >>=20 >> Yangvalidator.org has the following errors for -20, pyang is fine = though. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Reshad. >>=20 >> Confdc Output >> ietf-network-instance@2018-03-20.yang:18: error: module = 'ietf-yang-schema-mount' not found >> yanglint Validation >> err : Data model "ietf-yang-schema-mount" not found. >> err : Importing "ietf-yang-schema-mount" module into = "ietf-network-instance" failed. >> err : Module "ietf-network-instance" parsing failed. >> err : Importing "ietf-network-instance" module into = "ietf-subscribed-notifications" failed. >> err : Module "ietf-subscribed-notifications" parsing failed. >>=20 >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFOn 2018-12-19, 6:37 PM, "Netconf on behalf of Carl Moberg" = wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:40 PM, Martin Bjorklund = wrote: >>>=20 >>> "Eric Voit (evoit)" wrote: >>>> Thanks Martin, >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> I have the version addressing the double quotes here: >>>>=20 >>>> = https://github.com/netconf-wg/rfc5277bis/blob/master/draft-ietf-netconf-su= bscribed-notifications-20.xml >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Before I upload this -20, I want to see if you have concerns with = the Pyang Validation issue shown below. Reshad mentioned that other = users have seen it. Is this something which should stop me from = posting? >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> You get this error b/c you are running an old version of pyang that >>> isn't compatible with the (newer) version of pip on your system. I >>> suggest you upgrade pyang. >>>=20 >>=20 >> Yup, thanks. Upgraded and yangvalidator.org now works (better). >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed Dec 19 16:48:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F0EF1294D0; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:48:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8YhcQZi6V7ZK; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:48:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB0BD126C01; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:48:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id A8AA64D9FC966; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:48:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:48:47 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.172]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:48:43 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Jan Lindblad , =?gb2312?B?QmFsqKJ6cyBMZW5neWVs?= CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Netconf] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces Thread-Index: AQHUltbN9lVO78lVgUuAW3HVKNk4taWGzEeA Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:48:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20181217.091505.218628572185200621.mbj@tail-f.com> <83b139a1-a0ab-5fbc-f702-7f0d50a46864@ericsson.com> <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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Hi:

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: netmod = [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA= =B1=ED Jan Lindblad
=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA12=D4=C218=C8=D5 21:37
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Bal=A8=A2zs Lengyel
=B3=AD=CB=CD: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netmod] [Netconf] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces

 

Hi,

While I agree with Martin, in our systems we = have a number of places, where the system does create configuration in runn= ing, due to

  • different levels of automation and autonomous algorith= ms kick-in
  • the created config needs to be possible to be further = modified by the operator
  • the created config needs to= be referenced from operator created config

[Qin]: We have a new draft that h= as just been posted to discuss some of these issues which allow system crea= tion configuration in running

https://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft-wu-netconf-nmda-compatibility-00

 

  • the created config is not always ephemeral, it might n= eed to be part of backup/restore

This is only a sampling from &q= uot;the list of excuses". I have heard many more. The road to hell is = paved with good intentions, however. If we want to build automation based o= n sound theory, clearly separating the orders from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. Reliabilit= y, security, accountability are growing in importance, and they all play in= this direction.

 

We may not need to standardize = rules to outlaw the above; the market will take care of that. What we need = to ensure is that it is possible to be standards compliant without having t= o implement design excuses like these.

 &nbs= p;    [Qin]: I would support standardizing some of guidance = rules or design rules on how to deal with these cases.

 

Best Regards,=

/jan

 

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Pg0K --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9B1B55F5nkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Wed Dec 19 17:32:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD8212D4EF for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:32:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mjGaEXbhElhc for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:32:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client 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+0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.172]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 09:31:50 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Difference between test-then-set and set within operation Thread-Index: AdSYA8d/6gfS7uj/SK6nQEU6b7fF0w== Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 01:31:50 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9B1B5673nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Difference between test-then-set and set within operation X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 01:32:09 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9B1B5673nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, All: RFC6241 said: " test-option: The element MAY be specified only if the device advertises the :validate:1.1 capability (Section 8.6). The element has one of the following values: test-then-set: Perform a validation test before attempting to set. If validation errors occur, do not perform the operation. This is the default test-option. set: Perform a set without a validation test first. test-only: Perform only the validation test, without attempting to set. " It is not clear to me the real difference between test-then-set and set wit= in operation? Why test-then-set is set as default option? Do we use explicitly validate operation defined section 8.6.4 of RFC6241 to= perform validation test in the test-then-set? RFC 7950 section 8.3.3 said: " If the datastore is "running" or "startup", these constraints MUST be enforced at the end of the or operation. If the datastore is "candidate", the constraint enforcement is delayed until a or operation takes place. " It gives me impression that for , the configuration MUST be valida= ted before it can be set. Therefore there seems no difference between test-then-set and set option. But for datastore, selecting between test-then-set and set optio= n seems to have value. So when we will choose to use 'test-then-set', when we will choose to use '= set'? Do we need to clarify this in RFC6241 for this? -Qin --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9B1B5673nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, All:

RFC6241 said:=

“

&n=
bsp;
 &=
nbsp;    test-option:  The <test-option> element =
MAY be specified only if
 &=
nbsp;       the device advertises the :valida=
te:1.1 capability
 &=
nbsp;       (Section 8.6).
&n=
bsp;
 &=
nbsp;       The <test-option> element h=
as one of the following values:
 &=
nbsp;       test-then-set:  Perform a va=
lidation test before attempting to
 &=
nbsp;          set.  If v=
alidation errors occur, do not perform the
 &=
nbsp;          <edit-config=
> operation.  This is the default test-option.

&n=
bsp;


 &=
nbsp;       set:  Perform a set without =
a validation test first.


&n=
bsp;


 &=
nbsp;       test-only:  Perform only the=
 validation test, without


 &=
nbsp;          attempting to s=
et.


 


”


It is not clear to me the real =
difference between test-then-set and set witin <edit-config> operatio=
n? Why test-then-set is set as default option?


Do we use explicitly validate o=
peration defined section 8.6.4 of RFC6241 to perform validation test in the=
 test-then-set?


RFC 7950 section 8.3.3 said:


“



If the datastore is



"running" or "startup", these cons=
traints MUST be enforced at the end



   of the <edit-config> or <copy-co=
nfig> operation.  If the datastore is



   "candidate", the constraint enf=
orcement is delayed until a <commit>



   or <validate> operation takes place=
.


”


It gives me impression that for=
 <running>, the
configuration MUST be v=
alidated before it can be set.


Therefo=
re there seems no difference between test-then-set and set option.


But for=
 <candiate> datastore, selecting between test-then-set and set option=
 seems to have value.


So
when we will choose to use ‘test-then-set=
’, when we will choose to use ‘set’?

Do we need to clarify this in R=
FC6241 for this?


 


-Qin
--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9B1B5673nkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Wed Dec 19 23:46:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E551310B8 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:46:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jQt_Dppysd6d for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A20981310B5 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.45]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6098A1AE0397; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:46:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:46:35 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20181220.084635.1007231808550572557.mbj@tail-f.com> To: calle@tail-f.com Cc: rrahman@cisco.com, netconf@ietf.org, lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <3E762C43-7F3A-4EB3-A6CB-22006950D57B@tail-f.com> References: <7D59A993-EE20-429C-B5A0-C18F8B405EE8@cisco.com> <3E762C43-7F3A-4EB3-A6CB-22006950D57B@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications-19.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 07:46:42 -0000 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X19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ID4gTmV0Y29uZiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiBOZXRjb25mQGlldGYu b3JnDQo+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRjb25mDQo+ IA0K From nobody Thu Dec 20 01:08:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B24131110; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 01:08:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.964 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.964 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.065, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) 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8/u5r0IZlOsK0QTEDLYqhuGFFgiCnwtTVoovzPwWoMJUfrselhY+QOAlK+/qcaCns8c53u0VHsruvB83iNMa59vgoaLqJHhX9J5yHgxbjCTYvh6Or+ydeLjl02ykNWfJLAEXJAcFmav7pSaEVaKpeVCLbSzKbyoJfD9sIfJ5kn3jg5NfcxEcrCqzXrAx/wPUH98zBa1TiVw8A9aVohoo64VIMC/I3vnDvDkdBlmxyo6Dqip7zZmhRcMnfzAvSF/drpMw0nYyqAJKvXfbEIRIulaJUFN6LECGFosGPKlreCRVzi/qjGEVRRczIFb9w0F6 spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM0PR07MB5921ADC000E6FFF7E418F2EB91BF0AM0PR07MB5921eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e6c3417d-3552-48bc-8686-08d6665ab20b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Dec 2018 09:08:23.8952 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB4723 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org 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07:31:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181217.091505.218628572185200621.mbj@tail-f.com> <83b139a1-a0ab-5fbc-f702-7f0d50a46864@ericsson.com> <90DB3C3B-FD52-4903-81B0-93985E6F74FE@tail-f.com> <6912DD4C-4C4E-45E8-9F0E-D8D8139F83AE@tail-f.com> <875zvpeh5h.fsf@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 07:31:43 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" Cc: Jan Lindblad , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000093f452057d75d4b3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 15:32:00 -0000 --00000000000093f452057d75d4b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:08 AM Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate) < sergio.belotti@nokia.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:16 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > Jan Lindblad writes: > > > Hi, > >>> While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, > where the system does create configuration in running, due to > >>> > >>> different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in > >>> the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by the > operator > >>> the created config needs to be referenced from operator created confi= g > >>> the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part > of backup/restore > >> This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard many > more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however.. If we wan= t > to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the orders > from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. > Reliability, security, accountability are growing in importance, and they > all play in this direction. > >> > >> We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the market > will take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible to = be > standards compliant without having to implement design excuses like these= . > >> > >> > >> NMDA has a lot of room for proprietary mechanisms for converting > to . > >> Many times the features desired by engineers exceed the capabilities o= f > YANG, such as > >> a dynamic default leaf. YANG allows a simple constant, and no busines= s > logic to pick the default. > >> This is a very valid use of "server auto-magic". > >> > >> Maybe a future version of YANG can improve the client visibility into > this "auto-magic" > > > > As you say, this is not uncommon. I usually recommend to leave out any > > default statement, and write in the description what happens if this > > leaf isn't set. The operator can then override the default by giving a > > value. > > Anyway, this is not a case where the server writes something on its own > to a configuration datastore. > > > > > > I don't think it is a problem if NMDA or non-NMDA servers write to > . > > Just part of the complexity that is baked in -- NMDA does nothing to help > the client know > > why is different than anyway. > > > > SB>> But RFC 8342 says : > > =E2=80=9CIt represents the configuration after all configuration transfor= mations > to are performed (e.g.,template expansion, removal of inactive > configuration)=E2=80=9D > > > > So my understanding is that by definition =E2=80=9Cintended=E2=80=9D can = be different from > =E2=80=9Crunning=E2=80=9D. > > Am I missed something? > > > The client can see WHAT changed because of server-auto-magic but not WHY a particular server implementation converts into if is edited. A client (using plain YANG) cannot predict at all what will happen if is edited. The issue remains: how does a client know that a mandatory leaf is not actually required in ? I guess vague auto-magic description-text is good enough Andy > > > > While some more advanced features for default values may be of some > > utility, the simplicity of YANG is also important. We don't want to > > make the YANG models -- the interface contracts -- the new place for > > all business logic. > > Absolutely. > > > > I am not proposing YANG needs a new default-stmt. There is a > description-stmt > > and vendors can add their own extensions to flag auto-magic data nodes. > > > > Lada > > > > > /jan > > > > > > Andy > > > > Thanks > > Sergio > > > > Sergio Belotti > > Senior System Engineer and Standardization Architect > > IP/Optical Networks, Optics BU > > Nokia > > M: +39-335761776 > > Via Energy Park, 20871 Vimercate (MB) , Italy > > sergio.belotti@nokia.com > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > --00000000000093f452057d75d4b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:08 AM Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - I= T/Vimercate) <sergio.belotti= @nokia.com> wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:16 AM Ladislav Lhotka <= lhotka@nic.cz> wr= ote:

Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com> writes:

> Hi,
>>> While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of = places, where the system does create configuration in running, due to
>>>
>>> different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-= in
>>> the created config needs to be possible to be further modified= by the operator
>>> the created config needs to be referenced from operator create= d config
>>> the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to b= e part of backup/restore
>> This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I ha= ve heard many more. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however= .. If we want to build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating= the orders from managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. Reliability, security, accountability are growing in imp= ortance, and they all play in this direction.
>>
>> We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the mark= et will take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible to= be standards compliant without having to implement design excuses like the= se.
>>
>>
>> NMDA has a lot of room for proprietary mechanisms for converting &= lt;running> to <intended>.
>> Many times the features desired by engineers exceed the capabiliti= es of YANG, such as
>> a dynamic default leaf.=C2=A0 YANG allows a simple constant, and n= o business logic to pick the default.
>> This is a very valid use of "server auto-magic".
>>
>> Maybe a future version of YANG can improve the client visibility i= nto this "auto-magic"
>
> As you say, this is not uncommon. I usually recommend to leave out any=
> default statement, and write in the description what happens if this > leaf isn't set. The operator can then override the default by givi= ng a
> value.

Anyway, this is not a case where the server writes something on its own
to a configuration datastore.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I don't think it is a problem if NMDA or non-NMD= A servers write to <running>.

Just part of the complexity that is baked in -- NMDA= does nothing to help the client know

why <running> is different than <intended&g= t; anyway.

=C2=A0

SB>> But RFC 8342 says :

=E2=80=9CIt represents the configuration after all configuration = transformations to <running> are performed (e.g.,template expansion, = removal of inactive configuration)=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

So my understanding is that by definition =E2=80=9Ci= ntended=E2=80=9D can be different from =E2=80=9Crunning=E2=80=9D.=

Am I missed something?

=C2=A0



The client can see WHAT changed because= of server-auto-magic but not WHY
a particular server implementat= ion converts <foo> into <bar> if <foo> is edited.
A client (using plain YANG) cannot predict at all what will happen if &l= t;foo> is edited.

The issue remains: how does a= client know that a mandatory leaf is not
actually required in &l= t;running>?=C2=A0 I guess vague auto-magic description-text is good enou= gh


Andy


>
> While some more advanced features for default values may be of some > utility, the simplicity of YANG is also important. We don't want t= o
> make the YANG models -- the interface contracts -- the new place for > all business logic.

Absolutely.

=C2=A0

I am not proposing YANG needs a new default-stmt. Th= ere is a description-stmt

and vendors can add their own extensions to flag aut= o-magic data nodes.

=C2=A0

Lada

>
> /jan

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

Thanks

Sergio

=C2=A0

Sergio Belott= i

Senior System= Engineer and Standardization Architect

IP/Optical Ne= tworks, Optics BU

Nokia =

M= : +39-335761776

V= ia Energy Park, 20871 Vimercate (MB) , Italy

sergio.belo= tti@nokia.com

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

>
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67

--00000000000093f452057d75d4b3-- From nobody Thu Dec 20 10:52:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42A11311F8; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 10:52:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <154533196982.19062.13734868545043068788@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 10:52:49 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:52:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Zero Touch Provisioning for Networking Devices Authors : Kent Watsen Mikael Abrahamsson Ian Farrer Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26.txt Pages : 95 Date : 2018-12-20 Abstract: This draft presents a technique to securely provision a networking device when it is booting in a factory-default state. Variations in the solution enables it to be used on both public and private networks. The provisioning steps are able to update the boot image, commit an initial configuration, and execute arbitrary scripts to address auxiliary needs. The updated device is subsequently able to establish secure connections with other systems. For instance, a device may establish NETCONF (RFC 6241) and/or RESTCONF (RFC 8040) connections with deployment-specific network management systems. 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id C711C130EFE; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:15:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org, Mahesh Jethanandani , Bert Wijnen , Bert Wijnen , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154533691880.19091.8144078009993515092.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:15:18 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 20:15:19 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my discuss point. 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Suresh Krishnan To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org, Mahesh Jethanandani , Bert Wijnen , Bert Wijnen , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154541330981.20378.7121000100490083269.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:28:29 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 17:28:30 -0000 Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS and comments. From nobody Sat Dec 29 11:04:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12EE412008F; Sat, 29 Dec 2018 11:04:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mit.edu Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vSrSObzAtDGm; Sat, 29 Dec 2018 11:04:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM01-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr820112.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.82.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 097A8129AA0; 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ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=bestguesspass action=none header.from=mit.edu; Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of mit.edu designates 18.9.28.11 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=18.9.28.11; helo=outgoing.mit.edu; Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (18.9.28.11) by DM3NAM03FT064.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.83.1) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1446.11 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:03:58 +0000 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id wBTJ3s0T020756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:03:57 -0500 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 13:03:54 -0600 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Kent Watsen CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org" , "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20181229190354.GB57547@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <154390493154.31734.13025584839857369253.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Ip=[18.9.28.11]; Helo=[outgoing.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR01MB4020 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:04:06 -0000 On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 09:34:34PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Ben, > > Regarding this DISCUSS item: > > >>(3) Nonce length > >> > >>Section 7.3 describes the nonce leaf: > >> > >> leaf nonce { > >> type binary { > >> length "8..32"; > >> > >>There is probably some discussion to be had about the minimum nonce > >>length (not necessarily in the document itself). Do you have a > >>pointer handy to previous disucsions or do we need to have it now? > >>(I do see that this is just following RFC 8366, so hopefully this > >>is an easy question.) > > > > > > I sent email to my RFC 8366 co-authors, as they were behind setting > > this min nonce length. I have yet to hear back from them, but will > > let you know when I do. > > I received the following response from one of my RFC 8366 co-authors: > > ===start==== > I think we wanted something that was big enough to have some > reasonable entropy. But, we didn't want to force receivers to > store too much. > > More than 32-bytes shouldn't be a problem for most receivers, but > we wouldn't expect them to accommodate kilobytes. The registrar > may need to store an index over nonce values for some situations. > ===stop=== > > Does this resolve this DISCUSS item? I agree that 32 bytes of entropy should be plenty and we don't want to ask endpoints to store kilobytes. My uncertainty is more at the other end, whether 64 bytes is enough for defending against all the possible attacks that may be in scope. In general, it's simplest to just require a 128-bit (or larger) nonce, but there is certainly a reasonable argument to make that in some cases 64 bits is enough and the difference is important for the low-end systems. For example, if we're only concerned about a device possibly generating the same nonce value twice, and an attacker storing+replaying the old response, then 64 bits should be enough. But if the attacker can (even off-path) try to spoof response and collide the nonce value to trick the device into accepting the spoofed reply, then 128 bits are needed, for our usual security margins. I don't want to insist that you include a discussion of the various attacks and security margins in this document, which is not really the place for it. But it might be good to recommend at least 16 bytes of nonce (or even make the minimum bound 16 bytes, if appropriate). My apologies for not making the concern more clear in the original ballot position, especially with the long delay cycle for responses. -Benjamin From nobody Sat Dec 29 16:30:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97EE11294D0; Sat, 29 Dec 2018 16:30:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=mit.edu Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DL6rF3gQXXFS; Sat, 29 Dec 2018 16:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM02-BL2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr750127.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.75.127]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E62B130DC0; 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ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=bestguesspass action=none header.from=mit.edu; Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of mit.edu designates 18.9.28.11 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=18.9.28.11; helo=outgoing.mit.edu; Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (18.9.28.11) by DM3NAM03FT058.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.82.212) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1471.13 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:30:07 +0000 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id wBU0U3hK015579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:30:05 -0500 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:30:03 -0600 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Kent Watsen CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org" , "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20181230003002.GC57547@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <154390493154.31734.13025584839857369253.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Ip=[18.9.28.11]; Helo=[outgoing.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR0101MB2947 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:30:16 -0000 Hi Kent, Now that I'm mostly back from vacation+holidays, let's get back to this... On Sat, Dec 08, 2018 at 02:46:11AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Benjamin, > > Thanks for your review! See below for responses. > > It took me quite some time to compose this response; I can only imagine > how long it took you to compose your message. > > For when I write "Fixed", or otherwise indicate a change has been made, > unless stated otherwise, I mean to say that the changes are in my local > copy (not yet in a published update). Understood. > Kent // author > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > First off, thanks for this clear and considered document and design; it > > really lays out the scenario of applicability and the functionality quite > > well. I just have a couple lingering places that we might want to nail > > down a little bit tighter... > > > > (1) SSH key formats > > > > The module in Section 7.3 says: > > > > leaf-list ssh-host-key { > > type binary; > > description > > "The binary public key data for this SSH key, as > > specified by RFC 4253, Section 6.6, i.e.: > > > > string certificate or public key format > > identifier > > byte[n] key/certificate data."; > > reference > > "RFC 4253: The Secure Shell (SSH) Transport Layer > > Protocol"; > > > > but RFC 4523 Section 6.6 says: > > > > The key type MUST always be explicitly known (from algorithm > > negotiation or some other source). It is not normally included in > > the key blob. > > > > Certificates and public keys are encoded as follows: > > > > string certificate or public key format identifier > > byte[n] key/certificate data > > > > How is the key type known for the SZTP usage? > > Good catch. The fix here is to mimic RFC7317's "authorized-key" list. > That is, convert "ssh-host-key" from a "leaf-list" to a "list" > containing the extra "algorithm" node. This fix is here: > > https://github.com/netconf-wg/zero-touch/commit/7a33c418f733aebcd95f2c91c4e9abbccfd362e4 Sounds good. > > > > > (2) Privilege escalation by design > > > > There's text in Section 2.1 (and, really, throughout) that indicates that > > a device being bootstrapped should allow a trusted bootstrap server to > > behave as (i.e., supply) a trust anchor for verifying a different service. > > In some sense this is elevating an EE cert to a CA cert, and I had hoped > > to see some discussion of this escalation in the security considerations. > > (Same for the owner cert, though there's a stronger argument that the > > owner should be considered fully privileged here.) > > Correct, "redirect information" from a trusted source should contain a > trust-anchor certificate (actually, a CMS containing a chain of certs). > > Yes, the device's trust in a TLS trust anchor cert (e.g., provided via the > manufacturing process) is used to trust the EE cert for a bootstrap > server that returns a new trust anchor cert, enabling the device to > pin the new TA cert for subsequent EE cert validation. > > This is similar to a CA in that a chain of trusted certs is formed, but > it isn't quite like a CA cert, in that the EE cert doesn't itself sign > the new TA cert; it only signs that transport used to convey the TA cert. > > Regarding the owner cert being similar, I think you mean that the > ownership voucher [RFC 8366] is similar, which is true. In this case, > the device's trust in a trust anchor for voucher-signing certs (e.g., > provided via the manufacturing process) is used to trust a specific > signing cert for a voucher, which encodes a new trust anchor cert > (the 'pinned-domain-cert'), which is, in fact, the issuing CA for > the owner certificate. > > Okay, so we have these two things. In both cases, trust anchors are > conveyed via trusted mechanisms. Do you want me to add a Security > Consideration saying this? > > I somehow thought this concept was fairly common, is it not done > elsewhere? It is fairly common, but it is probably still worth describing the security properties of the protocol exchanges, here. (In that a compromise of the initial interaction can result in compromise of all subsequent interactions, just as for trust-on-first-use.) > > > > > (3) Nonce length > > > > Section 7.3 describes the nonce leaf: > > > > leaf nonce { > > type binary { > > length "8..32"; > > > > There is probably some discussion to be had about the minimum nonce > > length (not necessarily in the document itself). Do you have a > > pointer handy to previous disucsions or do we need to have it now? > > (I do see that this is just following RFC 8366, so hopefully this > > is an easy question.) > > > I sent email to my RFC 8366 co-authors, as they were behind setting > this min nonce length. I have yet to hear back from them, but will > let you know when I do. [covered in separate thread] > > > > > (4) OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT repeated instances > > > > (In Section 8.1.) > > > > I think I may just be misunderstanding things here, but aren't > > > > As the list of URIs may exceed the maximum allowed length of a single > > DHCPv4 option (255 octets), the client MUST implement [RFC3396], > > allowing the URI list to be split across a number of > > OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT option instances. > > > > and > > > > The DHCPv4 server MAY include a single instance of Option > > OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT in DHCP messages it sends. Servers MUST > > NOT send more than one instance of the OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT > > option. > > > > in conflict about sending more than one instance of > > OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT? > > Yes, these statements appear to be contradictory. I asked my co-author, > Ian Farrer, our local DHCP expert, to answer this question. I think some > word-smithing is needed to convey that a "singleton" option may be split > into pieces. If memory serves, this was resolved in a different AD's ballot thread. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Should we consider recommending AuthEnvelopedData throughout instead > > of just EnvelopedData? > > I don't think this is necessary as 1) the decrypted data can be tested > to be a well-formed CMS and 2) using SZTP to cause the device to act as a > decryption oracle doesn't work well, if at all, as the decrypted text > isn't subsequently made available. > I'm not sure that (2) is relevant, but (1) and being a SignedData ought to be enough. Thanks for thinking it through with me. > > > TLS and CMS are probably good enough about adding context in their > > signatures (well, provided modern versions are used) that we don't > > get too much heartburn about reusing the same key directly for both > > zerotouch [artifact] decryption and TLS client certificates, but > > it's generally the sort of thing that we frown upon. > > Understood, which is why the last paragraph of Section 3.4 (Artifact > Encryption) says "This [encryption] certificate MAY be the same as > the TLS-level client certificate the device uses when connecting to > bootstrap servers.". The draft is going out of its way to say that > this is okay. This is necessary, in part, because devices tend to > have only a single IDevID certificate, and hence it tends to be used > for both digitalSignature (for when used as a TLS client cert) and > keyEncipherment (for decrypting the zerotouch artifacts). The draft > also leaves open the possibility to use distinct certificates for > each purpose. Perhaps a Security Consideration for this would be > good? [But given that these are distinct/separate uses, with no > leakage between (AFAICT), then maybe not needed?] I would suggest (recalling that this is a non-blocking comment) adding some text that this does allow for reuse of the private key to make different types of signatures, but there are not any known ways to cause a signature made in one context to be (mis)interpreted as valid in the other. > > > > I a little bit wonder if we want references for TLS and/or HTTP client > > authentication. Section 2.5 of RFC 8040 might be enough (though it is > > of course not citing TLS 1.3). > > This draft's use of TLS and HTTP authentication is exclusively for > RESTCONF (RFC 8040). I'm generally hoping to just reference that > RFC and let it speak for itself. > > Correct, RFC 8040 does not cite TLS 1.3 explicitly, though TLS 1.3 is > allowed, as Section 2.1 says: > > RESTCONF does not require a specific version of HTTP. However, it > is RECOMMENDED that at least HTTP/1.1 [RFC7230] be supported by all > implementations. > > BTW, does this comment regard Section 9.6? Section 9.6 is about making sure the client does not send sensitive data to an unauthenticated server, which is not limited to the data in the certifcate; my comment here is more about the mechanics of the client authenticating itself to a server for the server to make authorization decisions (admittedly, I did not mention "authorization" prior to now, so my apologies for being unclear). Client authentication is mentioned directly or in passing in at least sections 5.1 (which does mention Section 2.5 of RFC 8040 already) and 5.3 (ditto), as well as 9.6. > > > > (Are there generic RESTCONF internationalization considerations? > > I see 8040 say "just use UTF-8", but is more needed?) > > I'm not aware of any problems here. No RFC 8040 errata has been filed. > Is there something in particular you're thinking about? Nothing in particular, no. > > > > Section 1.2 > > > > Network Management System (NMS): The acronym "NMS" is used > > throughout this document to refer to the deployment specific > > > > nit: deployment-specific (with hyphen) > > Fixed (as well as the instance in Section C.2) > > > > > Section 2.1 > > > > Does RFC 8340 require a "ro" (or similar) to appear in the tree > > diagram? (Both here and in §2.2.) > > No, because these are "yang-data" structures. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8340#section-2.3. Ah, thanks for the pointer -- learn something every day. > > > > Section 3.2 > > > > Do we want to impose any ordering requirements on the certificate > > chain (e.g., owner cert must come first, each cert SHOULD certify > > the one immediately prior to it, etc.)? > > The owner certificate is encoded using a CMS SignedData structure. > SignedData is defined in RFC 5652, 5.1. The "certificates" field > is of type "CertificateSet", defined in Section 10.2.3 as a "SET OF", > which is defined in ASN.1 as an unordered collection. So, ordering > is not possible. Okay. > > > > Section 3.4 > > > > Thank you for including the motivating text about sign-then-encrypt. > > I do wonder if it's worth saying anything about why the well-publicized > > security risks of mac-then-encrypt do not apply. (The authors of > > draft-campbell-sip-messaging-smime probably already have some text > > that could be used, but it doesn't seem to be in the public view yet.) > > Are you referring to the padding oracle attack? As mentioned above, the Right. > solution presented in this document doesn't lend the device to being a > very good decryption oracle. I suppose the fix would be to add to this > section (or the Security Considerations section?) something like: > > This document specifies the encryption of signed objects, as opposed > to the signing of encrypted objects, as might be expected given well- > publicized oracle attacks (e.g., the padding oracle attack). This > document does not view such attacks as being feasible in the context > of the solution because i) the decrypted text never leaves the device > and ii) the solution does not differentiate between a "bootstrap-error" > cause by a decryption failure versus a failure occurring when parsing > the decrypted text. That works for me, thanks. (But feel free to leave it out if you don't think it's adding value, too.) > > > > Section 4.1 > > > > Mounting all filesystems found on removable devices can be a security > > risk, with intentionally malformed filesystem images causing system > > compromise in some cases. > > Is the concern the mounting of *all* or *any* filesystems? It seems > that even if there were just one filesystem, it could be intentionally > malformed. Are you hoping to see a Security Consideration for this? The concern was any, thanks for figuring out what I meant. Thinking about this again after the long gap, it seems a pretty generic consideration, so it's unclear that Security Considerations text in this document specifically would be particularly helpful. > > > > Section 4.2 > > > > I agree with Adam about registering "zerotouch" (and the name is > > perhaps overly generic?). > > > > I'm also not sure I properly understand the "zt-info"/zt-* TXT > > records' usage; would they need to be registered akin to > > draft-moonesamy-dnsop-special-use-label-registry? > > First, regarding the term "zerotouch" being perhaps overly generic, > I have somewhat felt this way for a while. One thing that could be > done fairly easily is to more the bulk of the "zerotouch" references > to "sztp", the acronym given throughout. Admittedly, what SZTP > stands for isn't tremendously better, but I think that it is > generally better than just "zerotouch". Thoughts? SZTP does seem better than just "zerotouch" to me, all things considered. > Second, I am not a DNS expert, do you know who we can discuss > such things with? That said, I guess our idea was to use TXT > records like RFC 1464, where the TXT value itself has the form > "=", in which case it doesn't > seem to need IANA registration? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this issue was already covered in a different AD's ballot thread. That said, the addition of ._zerotouch.fqdn in the -26 seems to indicate that mention of draft-ietf-dnsop-attrleaf is appropriate, if I remember correctly how that works. > > > > Section 5.3 > > > > This is the first time we talk about "serial number" as device identity; > > maybe a forward-reference is in order? > > I'm unsure what the forward reference would be to. However, I think that > we could add "serial number" to Section 5.1 (Initial State), as a new > first item in the box. Would that be better? It looks like -26 added some text relating "serial number" and "device identity [certificate]", so let's call this OBE. > > > Does the device have any reason to track whether the incoming artifact is > > encrypted (whether at the CMS layer or the transport layer)? I can't think > > of one, but sometimes this is useful information in other settings. > > I also cannot think of a reason. That the incoming CMS is encrypted has > no bearing on device's processing logic. This is expected, given that the > device's public key is, well, public, and therefore access to it has no > special meaning. Note that encryption here is used to ensure privacy, as > only the device can decrypt/access the data. Agreed. > > > If the zero touch information artifact contains onboarding > > information, and trust-state is FALSE, the device MUST exit the > > recursive algorithm (as this is not allowed, see the figure above), > > returning to the bootstrapping sequence described in Section 5.2. > > Otherwise, the device MUST attempt to process the onboarding > > information as described in Section 5.6. In either case, success or > > failure, the device MUST exit the recursive algorithm, returning to > > the bootstrapping sequence described in Section 5.2, the only > > difference being in how it responds to the "Able to bootstrap from > > any source?" conditional described in the figure in the section. > > > > Does this "either case" refer to just the processing of onboarding > > information, or the exit vs. attempt to process cases? (I assume the > > former, but perhaps some editorial work is in order.) > > Your intuition is correct :) How about this: > > OLD: > In either case, success or failure, ... > > NEW: > Whether the processing of the onboarding information succeeds > or fails, ... SGTM :) > > > > > If the zero touch information artifact is signed, and the device is > > able to validate the signed data using the algorithm described in > > Section 5.4, then the device MUST set trust-state to TRUE; otherwise, > > if the device is unable to validate the signed data, the device MUST > > set trust-state to FALSE. Note, this is worded to cover the special > > case when signed data is returned even from a trusted bootstrap > > server. > > > > Having read Section 5.4, I'm still unsure where the special handling > > for this special case is described. > > There is no special handling per se but, the point that is trying > (perhaps ineffectually) is that, if signed-data is received from a > trusted-source, validating the signature is all that matters, that > the source was trusted becomes irrelevant to being able to validate > the data. Makes sense now? Does it need to be reworded? It does make sense now, and I don't think it needs to be reworded -- thanks for the extra explanation. (I was mostly concerned that there was a special case that I wasn't finding in the text, but the existing text describes exactly what to do, so it's alll good.) > > > > Section 5.5 > > > > Processing redirect information is straightforward, the device > > sequentially steps through the list of provided bootstrap servers > > until it can find one it can bootstrap from. > > > > nit: I think this is a comma splice. > > Changed to a semicolon. > > > > > Section 5.6 > > Regardless the > > reporting-level indicated by the bootstrap server, the device MAY > > send progress reports beyond the mandatory ones specified for the > > given reporting level. > > > > nit: "Regardless of" > > Fixed. > > > > > When the onboarding information is obtained from an untrusted > > bootstrap server, the device MUST NOT send any progress reports to > > the bootstrap server. > > > > I'm not sure if I would want a parenthetical "(that is, the onboarding > > information was authenticated at the CMS layer)", but I would think about > > adding one. > > How about postpending: > > ", even though the onboarding information must have been signed and > authenticated. Please be aware that bootstrap servers are recommended, > in the last paragraph of Section 9.6, to promote untrusted connections > to trusted connections so as, in part, to be able to collect progress > reports from devices." > > Too wordy, or just right? I am prone to being too wordy myself, but that seems just right to me. > > > > The device MUST parse the provided onboarding information document, > > to extract values used in subsequent steps. Whether using a stream- > > based parser or not, if there is an error when parsing the onboarding > > > > This line makes me consider the scenario where a stream-based parser is > > used with a trusted bootstrap server and no CMS-layer signature. At the > > TLS layer, a truncation attack by the network is possible, and if > > truncation is not detectable at the application layer, the device could end > > up misconfigured with neither party aware (unless there's an additional > > response or something that I'm forgetting about). I think that for the XML > > and JSON formats we know and love, truncation would make for a malformed > > stream due to the outermost scope container, but please correct me if I'm > > wrong. There are probably some security considerations to mention w.r.t. > > any future new encodings of this data model, though. > > The steps are roughly: > a) HTTPS GET an XML/JSON document (the get-bootstrapping-data" response). > b) extract the CMS-based artifacts from the XML/JSON document. > c) if encrypted, decrypt. > d) if signed, authenticate. > e) extract the onboarding-information (another XML/JSON doc) from the CMS artifact. > f) process the onboarding-information XML/JSON doc > > So here we're at step (f), where the text mentions the possible use of a > stream parser. This is rather long after step (a), where TLS truncation > may occur and, presumably caught in step (b). This is by way of saying > that I don't think this is an issue, but interested to hear your response. > > FWIW, the point of this "stream-based parser" comment is to highlight > that, unlike most all the other progress-types, which seem to reflect > a serial processing of the steps, the parsing may either be a distinct > step (e.g., a DOM-based parser) or something that is splayed across all > the other steps (a stream-based parsed). In the first case, the all > the "parsing-*" progress reports (including any parsing-error report) > are expected to be transmitted before any, e.g., boot-image-* reports > are sent; whereas, in the second case, the parsing-* reports can be > intermixed. > > I don't think there is a TLS concern, but perhaps the paragraph needs > to be reworded? I think your understanding basically matches mine; I tried to include in my remark that it would only possibly apply to the case where the predicates for (c) and (d) are false. I just plain don't know whether (a)/(b) will choke if the GET response is an incomplete XML/JSON document. If it properly errors out, then there's no concern here, and we should just move on. In any case, even if there was an issue, this paragraph would not really be the place to talk about it -- my comment is only located here because this is where we start talking about stream-based parsers. The errors in question are not necessarily those generated by the stream-based parser, but can also include those generated at earlier steps. > > > > * Most steps are atomic. For instance, when a commit fails, it > > is expected to have no impact on the configuration. Similarly, > > if the error occurs when executing a script, the script will > > gracefully exit. > > > > As a reader it's hard to tell if this is giving guidance to script > > authors or consumers. > > Is this better? > > Most steps are atomic. For example, the processing a configuration > is specified as atomic above, and the processing of scripts are > similarly atomic, as specified in the "ietf-zerotouch-information" > YANG module. Yes, thanks. (I think the -26 lost both "of"s, though?) > > > > Section 6.2 > > > > "base64encodedvalue==" is pretty cute, though maybe we could add some > > trailing numbers to provide different values for the different fields? > > The issue here is that the example documents must be valid (fwiw, they > are tested each time `xml2rfc` is run). Previous versions of this > document included compete base64 encoding of the real objects, but > people complained that it greatly distracted from readability. To > address this, the WG agreed to use "base64encodedvalue==" in examples > to represent YANG "binary" data. > > Is it okay to leave this as is? This is a non-blocking comment, so by definition my answer is "yes" :) I mostly just wanted to point out that the examples use the same literal string to fill in for many different data types -- I agree with not using "real" examples since they're bulky and not readable in encoded form, but was just wondering if we could use different short strings to represent semantically different objects. > > > Section 6.3 > > > > The YANG module boilerplate is still on the RFC 2119 version of BCP 14 > > (not RFC 8174). > > Fixed. Now both YANG modules read: > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", > "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", > "NOT RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document > are to be interpreted as described in BCP 14 [RFC2119] > [RFC8174] when, and only when, they appear in all > capitals, as shown here. > > > > > Section 7.2 > > > > If we're going to say "and receives signed data in the response", maybe we > > could actually give an example that shows the (base64'd) CMS structure that > > corresponds to the signature? Not necessarily the whole payload, but > > enough to see the outer structure at least... > > See previous response regarding "base64encodedvalue==". It's tricky > business. That said, in a separate "expert review" response from Russ > Housley, we were thinking to add an appendix section containing all > the possible ASN.1 structures. For instance: > > X. ASN.1 for Various Artifacts > X.1. Zero Touch Information > X.2. Signed Zero Touch Information > X.3. Encrypted and Signed Zero Touch Information > X.4. Owner Certificate > X.5. Encrypted Owner Certificate > X.6. Ownership Voucher > X.7. Encrypted Ownership Voucher > > Would this bridge the gap for you? That would help a lot, thanks! > > > > Section 7.3 > > > > The YANG module boilerplate is still on the RFC 2119 version of > > BCP 14 (not RFC 8174). > > Yep, fixed along with the fix to the other YANG module. > > > > > enum "boot-image-installed-rebooting" { > > description > > "Indicates that the device successfully installed > > a new boot image and is about to reboot. After > > sending this progress type, the device is not > > expected to access the bootstrap server again."; > > > > Is this just scoped to the current connection/session? > > (As opposed to "bootstrap-complete", which probably is a global statement.) > > Yes, just the current scope. how about the following? - or should the last > sentence be left off? > > "Indicates that the device successfully installed > a new boot image and is about to reboot. After > sending this progress type, the device is not > expected to access the bootstrap server again > for this bootrapping attempt. The device may > access this bootstrap server after rebooting > and restarting the zerotouch bootstrapping > process."; Probably the last sentence is not adding anything useful. > > > > container trust-anchor-certs { > > [...] > > The CMS MUST contain only a single chain of > > certificates. The device's end-entity certificate > > MUST only authenticate to the last intermediate CA > > certificate listed in the chain. > > > > I'm not sure whether "authenticate to" means that the CA cert directly > > certifies or is the trust anchor. Could we maybe use language like > > "directly certifies the [next|previous]" certificate? > > This text is trying to say that the "last certificate" is the issuer of > the device's end-entity certificate. More generally, it's trying to say > that there are no superfluous certificates in the CMS. Perhaps: > > NEW: > The CMS MUST contain only a single chain of > certificates. The last certificate in the chain > MUST be the issuer for the the device's end-entity > certificate. That looks wonderful, thanks. > > > > Also, the split of references of RFC 6187 for trust-anchor-certs but RFCs > > 5280 and 5652 for trust-anchor-cert seems unusual, since potentially all > > three would be relevant for both nodes, if I understand correctly. > > True, but my general goal is to have the "reference" statements support > the "description" statements. So, in this case, the parent node mentions > RFC 6187, hence I put the "reference" for it there. Does it still seem > unusual to you? Less so; thanks for the explanation :) > > > > Section 9.1 > > > > At this point draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp exists, though I don't know > > whether it's appropriate to be citing it yet. > > How about tacking on this last sentence, and list ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp > as an Informative reference? > > Implementations SHOULD NOT rely on NTP for time, as > NTP is not a secure protocol at this time. Note, there > is an IETF work-in-progress to secure NTP > . SGTM. > > > > Section 9.6 > > > > There is perhaps some room for discussion of the consequences of the device > > telling the bootstrapping server whether the device thinks the connection > > is trusted, in that it gives an attacker information about the target. > > (Granted, it does not seem like much information, but it might be cleaner > > to define the semantics of the node as being whether the client would like > > the server to sign its responses at the application layer, which need not > > have complete overlap with whether the client considers the server to be > > trusted. > > Hmmm, I agree with the optics. Perhaps we could change it to "signed-data- > preferred"? Keep in mind that signed-data isn't required, as it would be > okay for the server to return unsigned redirect information. It's only if > the data is onboarding information that it would need to be signed. That works for me. (It doesn't seem like a big deal either way, of course.) > > > > Section 9.8 > > > > Does recommending frequent private key refreshes actually help in > > environments where revocation is unusable (i.e., by virtue of not having > > reliable time)? (If not, perhaps that caveat should be more explicit here, > > even though it is mentioned in Section 9.1 already.) > > Good catch. How about adding the last two lines below? > > Bootstrap server administrators are RECOMMENDED to follow best > practice to protect the private key used for any online operation. > Use of a hardware security module (HSM) is RECOMMENDED. If an > HSM is not used, frequent private key refreshes are RECOMMENDED, > assuming all bootstrapping devices have an accurate clock (see > ). SGTM. > > > > Section 9.10 > > > > I would suggest also mentioning the (lack of) mitigations possible if the > > operator does not trust all the pre-configured authorities designated by > > the manufacturers. > > How about adding the last sentence below? > > Operators should be aware that this system assumes that they trust > all the pre-configured bootstrap servers and voucher signing authorities > designated by the manufacturers. While operators may use points in > the network to block access to the well-known bootstrap servers, > operators cannot prevent voucher signing authorities from generating > vouchers for their devices. Perfect :) > > > Section 9.11 > > > > revealing (e.g., network topology, firewall policies, etc.). It > > is RECOMMENDED that operators encrypt the bootstrapping data when > > its contents are considered sensitive, even to the administrators > > of a bootstrap server. > > > > I don't understand what is meant by "even to the administrators of a > > bootstrap server"? > > Here I'm thinking that the bootstrap server may be hosted by a 3rd-party, > or another group within the operator's organization. For example, the > NOC generates the artifacts, but IT admins the bootstrap server boxes. > > Any need for an update to this text? Even given the above clarification, I'm still having a hard time not reading the current text as saying that the administrators of the bootstrap server are making the determination that content is considered sensitive. Maybe "even with respect to distribution to the administrators of a bootstrap server" or "even to the point of hiding it from the administrators of a bootstrap server"? > > > > Section 9.12 > > > > nit: the last word is "revoked". > > Fixed. > > > > > Section 9.13 > > > > Implementations should be aware that signed bootstrapping data only > > protects the data from modification, the contents are still visible > > to others. [...] > > > > nit: this is a comma splice > > Fixed. > > > > This > > information should be considered sensitive and precautions should be > > taken to protect it (e.g., encrypt artifact with device public key). > > > > nit: I think it's more conventional to "encrypt to" a public key than > > "encrypt with" one. > > How about "encrypt the artifact using the device's public key"? Sure. > > > > > Section C.3 > > > > We could perhaps recommend ecdsa-sha2-* keys instead of ssh-rsa keys. > > Replaced "ssh-rsa key" with "SSH public key" Even better > > > > > 4. Otherwise, if redirect information is found, the device iterates > > through the list of specified bootstrap servers, checking to see > > if it has bootstrapping data for the device. [...] > > > > The "it" is perhaps ambiguous; I would suggest "each server in turn". > > Replaced "it" with "bootstrap server" Sure. 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM0PR07MB6066; H:AM0PR07MB5506.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:0; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 4goIaziR492F9CnJrTTSohmni43K8nCGiQKhW7SwSMtUVxP2bczAuva8JejcKiZsVN+5IHEsvWReFWayceLEcdioB9hnyW84ubA1Ni9AP7EzJjzPCBLIS3hKgnisBcftW69d9fTdjaEyg1TFWRRHeKJOuvNNkD/hO0+iuPKfB5n3/U9JZvFT8ZBGskXzV8Ca1/74NWNUi1Ji5Q6jPMeUEDxmjlvGXgpFU/oqe79+09CX1jiJYftXJGEeXhvgKvVwqVMkwNK5FhXByPCWC9TEwOaZk8H9ToUdATwJoKqoRfR8MX+HkJi2vzmy9u3zW6CF spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c67cc57c-98bd-4517-26bd-08d66f09dc51 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Dec 2018 10:22:26.4323 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB6066 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 10:22:32 -0000 Kent You have added the reference to RFC8174 to the YANG modules but ... it appears as [RFC8174] which to my eyes looks like a HTML/XML anchor which will not work in a plain text YANG module. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:52 PM > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > Title : Zero Touch Provisioning for Networking Devices > Authors : Kent Watsen > Mikael Abrahamsson > Ian Farrer > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26.txt > Pages : 95 > Date : 2018-12-20 > > Abstract: > This draft presents a technique to securely provision a networking > device when it is booting in a factory-default state. Variations in > the solution enables it to be used on both public and private > networks. The provisioning steps are able to update the boot image, > commit an initial configuration, and execute arbitrary scripts to > address auxiliary needs. The updated device is subsequently able to > establish secure connections with other systems. For instance, a > device may establish NETCONF (RFC 6241) and/or RESTCONF (RFC 8040) > connections with deployment-specific network management systems. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-26 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt