
From nobody Wed Aug  5 15:13:32 2020
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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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NETCONF WG,


The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums =
conducted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results =
didn=E2=80=99t adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In =
particular, it wasn=E2=80=99t clear if the hums reflected a general =
desire to solve the problem or support for the particular draft.

As such, we=E2=80=99ve decided to send subsequent emails for each draft, =
or set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following =
questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


NETCONF Chairs





From nobody Wed Aug  5 15:14:06 2020
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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Subject: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:

   Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions
   Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
   Abstract:

      This document describes an UDP-based notification mechanism to
      collect data from networking devices.  A shim header is proposed =
to
      facilitate the streaming of data directly from line cards to a
      collector.  The objective is to rely on a lightweight approach to
      allow for higher frequency and better transit performance compared =
to
      already established notification mechanisms.


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the =
following questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs


From nobody Wed Aug  5 15:14:22 2020
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Subject: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif
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NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:

   Title: Subscription to Distributed Notifications
   Link: =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif
   Abstract:

      This documents describes extensions to the YANG notifications
      subscription to allow metrics being published directly from
      processors on line cards to target receivers, while subscription =
is
      still maintained at the route processor in a distributed =
forwarding
      system.


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the =
following questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs

--Apple-Mail=_0CD24FA4-3F2D-4238-8A96-FC6898DC5C8E
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per the previous email sent moments =
ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the following =
draft:</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;Subscription to Distributed =
Notifications</span></font><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Link: <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif"=
 =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-not=
if</a></span></font><br class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Abstract:</span></font><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This documents describes =
extensions to the YANG notifications</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; subscription to allow =
metrics being published directly from</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; processors on line cards =
to target receivers, while subscription is</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; still maintained at the =
route processor in a distributed forwarding</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
system.</span></font></div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font></div><br =
class=3D""></span></font><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">In particular, please =
discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the following =
questions:</span></font></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG =
to solve?<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis =
for the work?</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: this message =
is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to gauge =
interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">NETCONF Chairs<br class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_0CD24FA4-3F2D-4238-8A96-FC6898DC5C8E--


From nobody Wed Aug  5 15:17:41 2020
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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 22:17:37 +0000
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Subject: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
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NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:

   Title: Telemetry Data Export capability
   Link: =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
   Abstract:

      This document proposes a YANG module for telemetry data export
      capability which augments system Capabilities model and provides
      additional telemetry data export attributes associated with system
      capability for transport dependent capability negotiation.


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the =
following questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per =
the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit =
input on the following draft:</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Title:&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">Telemetry Data Export capability</span></font><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a></font><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities</span><br =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Abstract:</font><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document proposes a =
YANG module for telemetry data export</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; capability which augments =
system Capabilities model and provides</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; additional telemetry data =
export attributes associated with system</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; capability for transport =
dependent capability negotiation.</span></font></div><br =
class=3D""></div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">In particular, =
please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the following =
questions:</font></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the =
problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?</div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: this message is itself not an adoption =
poll, but rather an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential =
future adoption poll.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">NETCONF =
Chairs</div></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_C191AC41-72B3-41FB-B845-510816B4B2F3--


From nobody Wed Aug  5 15:17:54 2020
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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 22:17:44 +0000
To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities
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NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:

   Title: Self-explanation data Node tag capability
   Link: =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities
   Abstract:

      Before a client application subscribes to updates from a =
datastore,
      server capabilities related to "Subscription to YANG Datastores" =
can
      be advertised using YANG Instance Data format.  These server
      capabilities can be documented at implement time or reported at =
run-
      time.

      This document proposes a YANG module for self-explanation data =
Node
      tag capability which augments system capabilities model and =
provide
      additional self-explanation data node attributes associated with =
node
      selectors within per-node capabilities.


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the =
following questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs=

--Apple-Mail=_A4CA9F25-8D2D-44E8-8355-1C869C2A0F10
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per =
the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit =
input on the following draft:</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Title:&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">Self-explanation data Node tag capability</span></font><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities</span></font><br =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Abstract:</font><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
Before a client application subscribes to updates from a =
datastore,</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; server capabilities related to "Subscription to YANG =
Datastores" can</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000"=
 class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; be advertised using YANG Instance Data format. &nbsp;These =
server</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; capabilities can be documented at implement time or =
reported at run-</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; time.</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document proposes a =
YANG module for self-explanation data Node</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; tag capability which =
augments system capabilities model and provide</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; additional =
self-explanation data node attributes associated with =
node</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; selectors within per-node =
capabilities.</span></font></div><br class=3D""></div></div><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font><font color=3D"#000000"=
 class=3D"">In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it =
regards to the following questions:</font></div><div style=3D"caret-color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG =
to solve?<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis =
for the work?</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: this message =
is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to gauge =
interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">NETCONF Chairs</div></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_A4CA9F25-8D2D-44E8-8355-1C869C2A0F10--


From nobody Wed Aug  5 15:18:43 2020
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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 22:18:28 +0000
To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription
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NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:

   Title: Adaptive Subscription to YANG Notification
   Link: =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription
   Abstract:

      This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanism
      enabling subscriber's adaptive subscriptions to a publisher's =
event
      streams at various different period intervals with which to report
      updates.  Applying these elements allows both subscriber and
      publisher to automatically adjust the volume of telemetry traffic
      sent from publisher to the receivers.


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the =
following questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs

--Apple-Mail=_B33CEAED-9279-4057-A806-38F6BA85D8D4
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per the previous email sent moments =
ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the following =
draft:</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;Adaptive Subscription to YANG =
Notification</span></font><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Link: <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscripti=
on" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscri=
ption</a></span></font><br class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Abstract:</span></font><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document defines a =
YANG data model and associated mechanism</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; enabling subscriber's =
adaptive subscriptions to a publisher's event</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; streams at various =
different period intervals with which to report</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; updates. &nbsp;Applying =
these elements allows both subscriber and</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; publisher to =
automatically adjust the volume of telemetry =
traffic</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; sent from publisher to the =
receivers.</span></font></div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font><br class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">In =
particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the =
following questions:</span></font></div><div style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG =
to solve?<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis =
for the work?<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: this =
message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to gauge =
interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">NETCONF Chairs<br class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_B33CEAED-9279-4057-A806-38F6BA85D8D4--


From nobody Wed Aug  5 15:18:46 2020
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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 22:18:31 +0000
To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications
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NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:

   Title: Bulk Subscription to YANG Event Notification
   Link: =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notificatio=
ns
   Abstract:

      This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanism =
that
      allows subscriber applications to bulk subscribe to publishers' =
event
      streams based on bundle group information such as bundle size and
      bundle latency.  This allows the publishers to report multiple
      notifications in a single bundling message.


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the =
following questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs=

--Apple-Mail=_A9223BD5-58DF-4A7E-AFEF-48581043DF1D
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per the previous email sent moments =
ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the following =
draft:</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Bulk Subscription to =
YANG Event Notification</span></font><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications</span></font><=
br class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Abstract:</font><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanism =
that</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; allows subscriber applications to bulk subscribe to =
publishers' event</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; streams based on bundle group =
information such as bundle size and</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; bundle latency. =
&nbsp;This allows the publishers to report =
multiple</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; notifications in a single bundling =
message.</span></font></div><br class=3D""></div></div><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font><font color=3D"#000000"=
 class=3D"">In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it =
regards to the following questions:</font></div><div style=3D"caret-color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG =
to solve?<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis =
for the work?</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: this message =
is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to gauge =
interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">NETCONF Chairs</div></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_A9223BD5-58DF-4A7E-AFEF-48581043DF1D--


From nobody Wed Aug  5 15:19:14 2020
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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 22:19:09 +0000
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Subject: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:

   Title: Conveying a CSR in an SZTP Bootstrapping Request
   Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
   Abstract:

      This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in
      RFC 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request (CSR),
      enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an identity
      certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the
      "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply.


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the =
following questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs=

--Apple-Mail=_226BDA9D-BC2E-4892-8C1C-86CDF1B5C1AD
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per the previous email sent moments =
ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the following =
draft:</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Conveying a CSR in =
an&nbsp;</span></font><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">SZTP Bootstrapping Request</span><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr</span></font><br =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Abstract:</font><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This draft extends the =
"get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
RFC&nbsp;</span></font><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">8572&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">to include an optional =
certificate signing request (CSR),</span><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; enabling a bootstrapping device to =
additionally obtain an identity</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE =
802.1AR) as part of the</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "onboarding information" response =
provided in the RPC-reply.</span></font></div><br class=3D""></div><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font><font color=3D"#000000"=
 class=3D"">In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it =
regards to the following questions:</font></div><div style=3D"caret-color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG =
to solve?<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis =
for the work?</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: this message =
is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to gauge =
interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">NETCONF Chairs</div></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_226BDA9D-BC2E-4892-8C1C-86CDF1B5C1AD--


From nobody Thu Aug  6 19:54:52 2020
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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Hi chairs,

I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there is =
interest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you =
that a hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming =
the opinion on the mailing list.

But I'm worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of process =
into how we process documents.

The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the =
chairs that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in =
addition to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at =
adoption time (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, =
and we have seen one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their =
responsibilities, it seems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now =
you appear to be introducing an additional step to test "adoption =
suitability".

Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you adoption =
suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to adoption =
without making the working group go though a prolonged series of polls. =
We would, I think, prefer to get on with the work!

Best,
Adrian

-----Original Message-----
From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13
To: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums


NETCONF WG,


The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums =
conducted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results =
didn=E2=80=99t adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In =
particular, it wasn=E2=80=99t clear if the hums reflected a general =
desire to solve the problem or support for the particular draft.

As such, we=E2=80=99ve decided to send subsequent emails for each draft, =
or set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following =
questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


NETCONF Chairs




_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


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From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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Hi chairs,
hi list,

I have to admit that I am also tad bit puzzled by this procedure, I am 
afraid. If this this would be a WGLC instead of a WGA, I'd be inclined 
to support a more fine grained gateway procedure. But presenting the 
session output as "the results didnâ€™t adequately determine if the drafts 
should be adopted" seems to be a bit off. Why not ask for discrete 
concerns about adoption motions for specific contributions instead of 
this (rather surprising) reset?

Viele GrÃ¼ÃŸe,

Henk


On 07.08.20 10:59, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi chairs,
> 
> I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there is interest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you that a hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming the opinion on the mailing list.
> 
> But I'm worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of process into how we process documents.
> 
> The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the chairs that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in addition to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at adoption time (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, and we have seen one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their responsibilities, it seems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now you appear to be introducing an additional step to test "adoption suitability".
> 
> Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you adoption suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to adoption without making the working group go though a prolonged series of polls. We would, I think, prefer to get on with the work!
> 
> Best,
> Adrian
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
> Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13
> To: netconf@ietf.org
> Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
> 
> 
> NETCONF WG,
> 
> 
> The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums conducted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results didnâ€™t adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In particular, it wasnâ€™t clear if the hums reflected a general desire to solve the problem or support for the particular draft.
> 
> As such, weâ€™ve decided to send subsequent emails for each draft, or set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following questions:
> 
>      1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>      2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
> 
> 
> NETCONF Chairs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> 
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> 


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Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 11:17:15 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: 'Kent Watsen' <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, netconf@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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Adrian,

technical discussion of the drafts on the mailing list would help more
than having process meta-discussions. It is good to know who (other
than the authors) is volunteering to substantially review the drafts,
is willing to contribute to the discussions of any issues, and is
planning to implement the technology defined in the drafts as this
will likely help the chairs to make a decision.

/js

On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 09:59:15AM +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi chairs,
>=20
> I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there is=
 interest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you th=
at a hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming the =
opinion on the mailing list.
>=20
> But I'm worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of proces=
s into how we process documents.
>=20
> The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the cha=
irs that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in addi=
tion to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at adoption=
 time (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, and we hav=
e seen one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their responsibilities=
, it seems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now you appear to be =
introducing an additional step to test "adoption suitability".
>=20
> Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you adoption=
 suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to adoption w=
ithout making the working group go though a prolonged series of polls. We=
 would, I think, prefer to get on with the work!
>=20
> Best,
> Adrian
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
> Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13
> To: netconf@ietf.org
> Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
>=20
>=20
> NETCONF WG,
>=20
>=20
> The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums cond=
ucted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results didn=E2=80=
=99t adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In particular=
, it wasn=E2=80=99t clear if the hums reflected a general desire to solve=
 the problem or support for the particular draft.
>=20
> As such, we=E2=80=99ve decided to send subsequent emails for each draft=
, or set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following question=
s:
>=20
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>=20
>=20
> NETCONF Chairs
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

--=20
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "'Kent Watsen'" <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, <netconf@ietf.org>
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From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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Hi JÃ¼rgen,

piano is 3/5 stars. I think that is a typical moderate agreement (not an 
enthusiastic one, but we are talking about NETCONF here). Two contested 
hums that compete with say 2/5 and 3/5 results should be discussed 
further. In a standard IETF session room hum, I think 3/5 would never 
have had any opposition at all. Please think of the hum results as a 
star rating with all its pros and cons:

> https://xkcd.com/937/

If interest shows to be "an empty promise" this will certainly show in 
the WG as an adopted item. My impression was that the content is 
appropriate and that there is an established baseline for support.

Viele GrÃ¼ÃŸe,

Henk

On 07.08.20 11:19, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> Henk,
> 
> as far as I recall, all hums were 'piano' and given the new humming
> tool, nobody really knows what a 'piano' result really means. And as
> you know, all WG decisions are taken on the mailing list - so I do
> not see anything wrong with asking the mailing list.
> 
> /js
> 
> On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 11:15:42AM +0200, Henk Birkholz wrote:
>> Hi chairs,
>> hi list,
>>
>> I have to admit that I am also tad bit puzzled by this procedure, I am
>> afraid. If this this would be a WGLC instead of a WGA, I'd be inclined to
>> support a more fine grained gateway procedure. But presenting the session
>> output as "the results didnâ€™t adequately determine if the drafts should be
>> adopted" seems to be a bit off. Why not ask for discrete concerns about
>> adoption motions for specific contributions instead of this (rather
>> surprising) reset?
>>
>> Viele GrÃ¼ÃŸe,
>>
>> Henk
>>
>>
>> On 07.08.20 10:59, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>> Hi chairs,
>>>
>>> I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there is interest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you that a hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming the opinion on the mailing list.
>>>
>>> But I'm worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of process into how we process documents.
>>>
>>> The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the chairs that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in addition to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at adoption time (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, and we have seen one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their responsibilities, it seems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now you appear to be introducing an additional step to test "adoption suitability".
>>>
>>> Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you adoption suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to adoption without making the working group go though a prolonged series of polls. We would, I think, prefer to get on with the work!
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
>>> Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13
>>> To: netconf@ietf.org
>>> Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
>>>
>>>
>>> NETCONF WG,
>>>
>>>
>>> The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums conducted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results didnâ€™t adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In particular, it wasnâ€™t clear if the hums reflected a general desire to solve the problem or support for the particular draft.
>>>
>>> As such, weâ€™ve decided to send subsequent emails for each draft, or set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following questions:
>>>
>>>       1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>>>       2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>>>
>>>
>>> NETCONF Chairs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> netconf mailing list
>>> netconf@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> netconf mailing list
>>> netconf@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> netconf mailing list
>> netconf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> 


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Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 11:19:59 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Kent Watsen' <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, netconf@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20200807091959.fywbuyfdifxb747k@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>
Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Mail-Followup-To: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>, adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Kent Watsen' <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, netconf@ietf.org
References: <01000173c0afb995-d6003a0a-edbd-4113-b3e6-9092d30ec2a7-000000@us-east-1.amazonses.com> <00cf01d66c99$07392530$15ab6f90$@olddog.co.uk> <ffc330c0-4ee0-a510-0d10-7ada6cf12565@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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Henk,

as far as I recall, all hums were 'piano' and given the new humming
tool, nobody really knows what a 'piano' result really means. And as
you know, all WG decisions are taken on the mailing list - so I do
not see anything wrong with asking the mailing list.

/js

On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 11:15:42AM +0200, Henk Birkholz wrote:
> Hi chairs,
> hi list,
>=20
> I have to admit that I am also tad bit puzzled by this procedure, I am
> afraid. If this this would be a WGLC instead of a WGA, I'd be inclined =
to
> support a more fine grained gateway procedure. But presenting the sessi=
on
> output as "the results didn=E2=80=99t adequately determine if the draft=
s should be
> adopted" seems to be a bit off. Why not ask for discrete concerns about
> adoption motions for specific contributions instead of this (rather
> surprising) reset?
>=20
> Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe,
>=20
> Henk
>=20
>=20
> On 07.08.20 10:59, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> > Hi chairs,
> >=20
> > I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there =
is interest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you =
that a hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming th=
e opinion on the mailing list.
> >=20
> > But I'm worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of proc=
ess into how we process documents.
> >=20
> > The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the c=
hairs that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in ad=
dition to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at adopti=
on time (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, and we h=
ave seen one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their responsibiliti=
es, it seems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now you appear to b=
e introducing an additional step to test "adoption suitability".
> >=20
> > Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you adopti=
on suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to adoption=
 without making the working group go though a prolonged series of polls. =
We would, I think, prefer to get on with the work!
> >=20
> > Best,
> > Adrian
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
> > Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13
> > To: netconf@ietf.org
> > Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
> >=20
> >=20
> > NETCONF WG,
> >=20
> >=20
> > The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums co=
nducted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results didn=E2=
=80=99t adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In particu=
lar, it wasn=E2=80=99t clear if the hums reflected a general desire to so=
lve the problem or support for the particular draft.
> >=20
> > As such, we=E2=80=99ve decided to send subsequent emails for each dra=
ft, or set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following questi=
ons:
> >=20
> >      1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
> >      2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
> >=20
> >=20
> > NETCONF Chairs
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > netconf mailing list
> > netconf@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > netconf mailing list
> > netconf@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> >=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

--=20
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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References: <01000173c0afb995-d6003a0a-edbd-4113-b3e6-9092d30ec2a7-000000@us-east-1.amazonses.com> <00cf01d66c99$07392530$15ab6f90$@olddog.co.uk> <ffc330c0-4ee0-a510-0d10-7ada6cf12565@sit.fraunhofer.de> <20200807091959.fywbuyfdifxb747k@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>
From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Oh, and I fully agree with the quote below!

The scope and phrasing is what leaves me puzzled. An ask about concerns 
with the 3/5 results would be the thing I am expecting - not a reset.

On 07.08.20 11:19, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> I do
> not see anything wrong with asking the mailing list.
> 
> /js


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Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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Yes to everything you say, Juergen.

And, indeed, this is often what an adoption poll is intended to measure.

Just saying that (per 7221) you can know these things without a poll, =
and (perhaps) your test of adoption suitability will collect exactly =
this information so that a further poll will not be necessary.

Best,
Adrian (who hopes that WG participants will respond carefully to the =
seven separate requests for info)

-----Original Message-----
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>=20
Sent: 07 August 2020 10:17
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: 'Kent Watsen' <kent+ietf@watsen.net>; netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums

Adrian,

technical discussion of the drafts on the mailing list would help more
than having process meta-discussions. It is good to know who (other
than the authors) is volunteering to substantially review the drafts,
is willing to contribute to the discussions of any issues, and is
planning to implement the technology defined in the drafts as this
will likely help the chairs to make a decision.

/js

On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 09:59:15AM +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi chairs,
>=20
> I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there =
is interest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you =
that a hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming =
the opinion on the mailing list.
>=20
> But I'm worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of =
process into how we process documents.
>=20
> The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the =
chairs that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in =
addition to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at =
adoption time (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, =
and we have seen one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their =
responsibilities, it seems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now =
you appear to be introducing an additional step to test "adoption =
suitability".
>=20
> Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you =
adoption suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to =
adoption without making the working group go though a prolonged series =
of polls. We would, I think, prefer to get on with the work!
>=20
> Best,
> Adrian
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
> Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13
> To: netconf@ietf.org
> Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
>=20
>=20
> NETCONF WG,
>=20
>=20
> The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums =
conducted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results =
didn=E2=80=99t adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In =
particular, it wasn=E2=80=99t clear if the hums reflected a general =
desire to solve the problem or support for the particular draft.
>=20
> As such, we=E2=80=99ve decided to send subsequent emails for each =
draft, or set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following =
questions:
>=20
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>=20
>=20
> NETCONF Chairs
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

--=20
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


From nobody Fri Aug  7 04:12:45 2020
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Thread-Topic: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/_0boRyHDE54Z8qka-0VNLaYsdw8>
Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Adrian Farrel <adrian=
@olddog.co.uk>=0A=
Sent: 07 August 2020 12:02=0A=
=0A=
Yes to everything you say, Juergen.=0A=
=0A=
And, indeed, this is often what an adoption poll is intended to measure.=0A=
=0A=
Just saying that (per 7221) you can know these things without a poll, and (=
perhaps) your test of adoption suitability will collect exactly this inform=
ation so that a further poll will not be necessary.=0A=
=0A=
<tp>=0A=
My left field view is to oppose adoption regardless.  The WG has some nine =
I-D comprising over 400pp dating in some cases back four years.  I think th=
at it the WG has any energy then at least some of these need to get to the =
IESG before the WG considers more work.  Indeed I know of an AD who once ch=
anged the WG charter to stop any more work being taken on until the existin=
g work had progressed.=0A=
=0A=
Tom Petch=0A=
=0A=
Best,=0A=
Adrian (who hopes that WG participants will respond carefully to the seven =
separate requests for info)=0A=
=0A=
-----Original Message-----=0A=
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>=0A=
Sent: 07 August 2020 10:17=0A=
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>=0A=
Cc: 'Kent Watsen' <kent+ietf@watsen.net>; netconf@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums=0A=
=0A=
Adrian,=0A=
=0A=
technical discussion of the drafts on the mailing list would help more=0A=
than having process meta-discussions. It is good to know who (other=0A=
than the authors) is volunteering to substantially review the drafts,=0A=
is willing to contribute to the discussions of any issues, and is=0A=
planning to implement the technology defined in the drafts as this=0A=
will likely help the chairs to make a decision.=0A=
=0A=
/js=0A=
=0A=
On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 09:59:15AM +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote:=0A=
> Hi chairs,=0A=
>=0A=
> I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there is i=
nterest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you that a=
 hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming the opinio=
n on the mailing list.=0A=
>=0A=
> But I'm worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of process =
into how we process documents.=0A=
>=0A=
> The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the chair=
s that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in addition=
 to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at adoption time =
(while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, and we have seen o=
ne or two people attempt to wriggle out of their responsibilities, it seems=
 unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now you appear to be introducing =
an additional step to test "adoption suitability".=0A=
>=0A=
> Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you adoption s=
uitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to adoption witho=
ut making the working group go though a prolonged series of polls. We would=
, I think, prefer to get on with the work!=0A=
>=0A=
> Best,=0A=
> Adrian=0A=
>=0A=
> -----Original Message-----=0A=
> From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen=0A=
> Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13=0A=
> To: netconf@ietf.org=0A=
> Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
> NETCONF WG,=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
> The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums conduc=
ted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results didn=92t ade=
quately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In particular, it wasn=
=92t clear if the hums reflected a general desire to solve the problem or s=
upport for the particular draft.=0A=
>=0A=
> As such, we=92ve decided to send subsequent emails for each draft, or set=
 of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following questions:=0A=
>=0A=
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?=0A=
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
> NETCONF Chairs=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
> _______________________________________________=0A=
> netconf mailing list=0A=
> netconf@ietf.org=0A=
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf=0A=
>=0A=
> _______________________________________________=0A=
> netconf mailing list=0A=
> netconf@ietf.org=0A=
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf=0A=
=0A=
--=0A=
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A=
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A=
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>=0A=
=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
netconf mailing list=0A=
netconf@ietf.org=0A=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf=0A=


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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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[as a contributor]


>    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?

I believe that it is important to enable publishers to send =
notifications using a UDP-based transport.   This belief is based on my =
experience from when at Juniper dealing with very high-end firewalls =
with enormous log output.

I believe that the NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, =
having defined RFC 8639 (SN), RFC 8640 (NN), and RFC 8650 (RN).


>    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?

I have read the current version of the draft and find it to be a =
reasonable start.

Presuming the =E2=80=9Creceiver-instances=E2=80=9D augmentation defined =
in =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3> =
takes off, the module defined in this draft should be updated to augment =
into it instead.

I appreciate Section 5 (Applicability) noting that the UDP-transport is =
primarily for the data plane (not the control plane), as it doesn=E2=80=99=
t matter so much if data plane notifications are lost.  This addresses =
(I think) the issue that Rob Shakir raised before: =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf> (search for =
=E2=80=9CRob S=E2=80=9D).  That said, it is unclear to me how a receiver =
could configure this while, e.g., configuring control plane =
notifications to be sent via a TCP-based transport such as =
=E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D.


3) regarding Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:

  a) I am willing to substantially review the drafts.
  b) I am willing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.
  c) I do NOT plan to implement the technology defined.



Kent=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div>[as a contributor]</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br=
 class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1) is the problem =
important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>I =
believe that it is important to enable publishers to send notifications =
using a UDP-based transport. &nbsp; This belief is based on my =
experience from when at Juniper dealing with very high-end firewalls =
with enormous log output.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">I =
believe that the</span><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span>NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG =
for this work, having defined RFC 8639 (SN),&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">RFC =
8640 (NN), and&nbsp;</span>RFC 8650 (RN).</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2) is the draft a suitable =
basis for the work?<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">I have read the current version of the draft =
and find it to be a reasonable start.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Presuming the =E2=80=9Creceiver-instances=
=E2=80=9D augmentation defined in&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#sect=
ion-3" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#s=
ection-3</a>&nbsp;takes off, the module defined in this draft should be =
updated to augment into it instead.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">I appreciate Section 5 =
(Applicability) noting that the UDP-transport is primarily for the data =
plane (not the control plane), as it doesn=E2=80=99t matter so much if =
data plane notifications are lost. &nbsp;This addresses (I think) the =
issue that Rob Shakir raised before: <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf</a>&nbsp;(=
search for =E2=80=9CRob S=E2=80=9D). &nbsp;That said, it is unclear to =
me how a receiver could configure this while, e.g., configuring control =
plane notifications to be sent via a TCP-based transport such as =
=E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D.</div></div><div style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0);" class=3D"">3) regarding Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:</div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; a) I am willing to substantially review the =
drafts.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; b) I am&nbsp;willing to contribute to the =
discussion of any issue.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; c) I do NOT&nbsp;plan to =
implement the technology defined.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Kent</div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_44258DED-442A-40AF-9A75-4A75E4D713A3--


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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif
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[as a contributor]


>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?

I believe that it is important to enable publishers to send =
notifications directly from line cards.   This belief is based on my =
experience from when at Juniper dealing with very high-end firewalls =
with enormous log output.

I believe that the NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, =
having defined RFC 8639 (SN), RFC 8640 (NN), and RFC 8650 (RN).


>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?

I have read the current version of the draft and find it to be a =
reasonable start.

Presuming the ability to use a transport outside of SN, as described by =
http-motif, is maintained, it may be useful if this draft could describe =
how to do that also.  That said, if all equipment having a multiplicity =
of publisher-agents will uses SN, then this isn=E2=80=99t needed.  =
[Note: the =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D draft=E2=80=99s intention is to =
enable simple implementations, e.g., no multiplicity of =
publisher-agents.]




3) regarding Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:

  a) I am willing to substantially review the drafts.
  b) I am willing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.
  c) I do NOT plan to implement the technology defined.



Kent


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">[as a =
contributor]</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the =
problem important for the NETCONF WG to =
solve?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><div>I believe that it is important to enable =
publishers to send notifications directly from line cards. &nbsp; This =
belief is based on my experience from when at Juniper dealing with very =
high-end firewalls with enormous log output.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">I believe that the</span><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span>NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, =
having defined RFC 8639 (SN),&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">RFC 8640 (NN), and&nbsp;</span>RFC =
8650 (RN).</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis =
for the work?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0);" class=3D"">I have read the current version of the draft and find =
it to be a reasonable start.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Presuming the ability to use a =
transport outside of SN, as described by&nbsp;</span><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">http-motif, is maintained, it may be useful =
if this draft could&nbsp;describe how to do that also. &nbsp;That said, =
if all&nbsp;equipment having a&nbsp;multiplicity of publisher-agents =
will uses SN, then this isn=E2=80=99t needed. &nbsp;[Note: =
the&nbsp;=E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D draft=E2=80=99s intention is to =
enable simple implementations, e.g., no&nbsp;</font><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">multiplicity of publisher-agents.]</span></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">3) =
regarding Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:</div><div style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; a) I am willing to substantially review the =
drafts.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; b) I am&nbsp;willing to contribute to the =
discussion of any issue.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; c) I do NOT&nbsp;plan to =
implement the technology defined.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Kent</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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[as a contributor and co-author]


Per the request below:

1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?

I believe that it is important to enable the SZTP bootstrapping process =
to be able to configure an LDevID certificate.  As the presentation =
mentioned, it is the ONLY way to enable use cases whereby the device =
must join a dynamically-provisioned network slice.  The ability to do =
this was requested by a 3rd-party (my co-authors may have more to say =
about this).

And I believe that the NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, =
having defined RFC 8572 (SZTP).


2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?

I believe the current version of the draft is a more than a reasonable =
start.  I would say that it's practically ready for Last Call (all =
sections were filled in), but I=E2=80=99m aware that my co-authors =
believe that one or two more CSR-types should be added to reflect =
real-world CA deployments.


3) regarding Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:

  a) I am willing to substantially review the drafts.
  b) I am willing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.
  c) I plan to implement the technology defined.


Kent


> NETCONF WG,
>=20
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:
>=20
>    Title: Conveying a CSR in an SZTP Bootstrapping Request
>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/ =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/>draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
>    Abstract:
>=20
>       This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in
>       RFC 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request =
(CSR),
>       enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an =
identity
>       certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the
>       "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply.
>=20
>=20
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to =
the following questions:
>=20
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>=20
>=20
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>=20
> NETCONF Chairs
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">[as =
a contributor and co-author]<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Per the request =
below:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1) is =
the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div>I believe that it =
is important to enable the SZTP bootstrapping process to be able to =
configure an LDevID certificate. &nbsp;As the presentation mentioned, it =
is the ONLY way to enable use cases whereby the device must join a =
dynamically-provisioned network slice. &nbsp;The ability to do this was =
requested by a 3rd-party (my co-authors may have more to say about =
this).</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>And I believe that the =
NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, having defined RFC 8572 =
(SZTP).</div></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">2) is the draft a =
suitable basis for the work?</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">I =
believe the current version of the draft is a more than a reasonable =
start. &nbsp;I would say that it's&nbsp;practically&nbsp;ready for Last =
Call (all sections were filled in), but I=E2=80=99m aware that my =
co-authors believe that one or two more CSR-types should be added to =
reflect real-world CA deployments.</font></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D"">3) regarding Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:</div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; a) I am willing to substantially review the =
drafts.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; b) I am&nbsp;willing to contribute to the =
discussion of any issue.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; c) I plan to implement the =
technology defined.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Kent</div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii" class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">NETCONF =
WG,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per the previous email =
sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the =
following draft:</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Title:&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">Conveying a CSR in an&nbsp;</span></font><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">SZTP Bootstrapping =
Request</span><div class=3D""><font class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr</span></font><br =
class=3D""><font class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</font><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined =
in</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
RFC&nbsp;</span></font><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">8572&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">to include an optional certificate signing request =
(CSR),</span><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; enabling a bootstrapping =
device to additionally obtain an identity</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE =
802.1AR) as part of the</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; "onboarding information" response provided in the =
RPC-reply.</span></font></div><br class=3D""></div><font class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font><font class=3D"">In particular, please discuss =
adoption-suitability as it regards to the following =
questions:</font></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the =
NETCONF WG to solve?<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a =
suitable basis for the work?</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: this message is itself =
not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to gauge interest/support =
for a potential future adoption poll.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">NETCONF=
 =
Chairs</div></div></div></div>____________________________________________=
___<br class=3D"">netconf mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" class=3D"">netconf@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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In-Reply-To: <20200807091715.vzglsinbh76ox6kz@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>
From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 16:13:16 -0700
Message-ID: <CABCOCHTSNwq6zz2nAPkjMH_BPnM9HpbK7zE-tGWh772UH_y9=A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>,  Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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Hi,


On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:17 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> Adrian,
>
> technical discussion of the drafts on the mailing list would help more
> than having process meta-discussions. It is good to know who (other
> than the authors) is volunteering to substantially review the drafts,
> is willing to contribute to the discussions of any issues, and is
> planning to implement the technology defined in the drafts as this
> will likely help the chairs to make a decision.
>


IMO it makes more sense to discuss what problems the NETCONF/NETMOD WGs
should be solving, rather than adoption of solutions to problems. The WG
should be
finishing up configured notifications. Try to standardize binary telemetry
instead
of just leaving placeholders for proprietary vendor solutions.

Your questions are most relevant because we do not have any clear definitio=
n
or "support" or "oppose" for adoption of a draft.
Support often means "I am happy for you to work on this draft".
The culture of the IETF creates a strong bias against anybody actually
opposing adoption of anything. Usual attitude: "Let people experiment.
Maybe they will
come up with something good in the end."

If only the co-authors support, and nobody opposes, then the work will get
stuck.
Often WGs adopt after such a poll outcome and act surprised a year later
when
the draft goes nowhere.


Andy






> /js
>
> On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 09:59:15AM +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> > Hi chairs,
> >
> > I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there is
> interest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you tha=
t
> a hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming the
> opinion on the mailing list.
> >
> > But I'm worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of proces=
s
> into how we process documents.
> >
> > The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the
> chairs that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in
> addition to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at
> adoption time (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, an=
d
> we have seen one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their
> responsibilities, it seems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now y=
ou
> appear to be introducing an additional step to test "adoption suitability=
".
> >
> > Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you adoption
> suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to adoption
> without making the working group go though a prolonged series of polls. W=
e
> would, I think, prefer to get on with the work!
> >
> > Best,
> > Adrian
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
> > Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13
> > To: netconf@ietf.org
> > Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
> >
> >
> > NETCONF WG,
> >
> >
> > The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums
> conducted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results didn=
=E2=80=99t
> adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In particular, it
> wasn=E2=80=99t clear if the hums reflected a general desire to solve the =
problem or
> support for the particular draft.
> >
> > As such, we=E2=80=99ve decided to send subsequent emails for each draft=
, or set
> of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following questions:
> >
> >     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
> >     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
> >
> >
> > NETCONF Chairs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > netconf mailing list
> > netconf@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > netconf mailing list
> > netconf@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:17 AM Juer=
gen Schoenwaelder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.d=
e">j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Adrian,<br>
<br>
technical discussion of the drafts on the mailing list would help more<br>
than having process meta-discussions. It is good to know who (other<br>
than the authors) is volunteering to substantially review the drafts,<br>
is willing to contribute to the discussions of any issues, and is<br>
planning to implement the technology defined in the drafts as this<br>
will likely help the chairs to make a decision.<br></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div><br></div><div>IMO it makes more sense to discuss what problems th=
e NETCONF/NETMOD WGs</div><div>should be solving, rather than adoption of s=
olutions=C2=A0to problems. The WG should be</div><div>finishing up configur=
ed notifications. Try to standardize binary telemetry instead</div><div>of =
just leaving placeholders for proprietary vendor solutions.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Your questions are most relevant because we do not have any clear=
 definition</div><div>or &quot;support&quot; or &quot;oppose&quot; for adop=
tion of a draft.</div><div>Support often means &quot;I am happy for you to =
work on this draft&quot;.</div><div>The culture of the IETF creates a stron=
g bias against anybody actually</div><div>opposing adoption of anything. Us=
ual attitude: &quot;Let people experiment. Maybe they will</div><div>come u=
p with something good in the end.&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>If only th=
e co-authors support, and nobody opposes, then the work will get stuck.</di=
v><div>Often WGs adopt after such a poll outcome and act surprised=C2=A0a y=
ear later when</div><div>the draft goes nowhere.</div><div><br></div><div><=
br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><=
br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
/js<br>
<br>
On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 09:59:15AM +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi chairs,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there i=
s interest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you tha=
t a hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming the opi=
nion on the mailing list.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; But I&#39;m worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of p=
rocess into how we process documents.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the ch=
airs that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in addit=
ion to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at adoption ti=
me (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, and we have see=
n one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their responsibilities, it se=
ems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now you appear to be introduci=
ng an additional step to test &quot;adoption suitability&quot;.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you adoptio=
n suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to adoption wi=
thout making the working group go though a prolonged series of polls. We wo=
uld, I think, prefer to get on with the work!<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Best,<br>
&gt; Adrian<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: netconf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">netconf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Kent Watsen<br>
&gt; Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf=
.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; NETCONF WG,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The Chairs &amp; AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums=
 conducted during the 108 meeting.=C2=A0 There is a sense that the results =
didn=E2=80=99t adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.=C2=A0 =
In particular, it wasn=E2=80=99t clear if the hums reflected a general desi=
re to solve the problem or support for the particular draft.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; As such, we=E2=80=99ve decided to send subsequent emails for each draf=
t, or set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following questions=
:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to s=
olve?<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; NETCONF Chairs<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; netconf mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org=
</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><=
br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; netconf mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org=
</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><=
br>
<br>
-- <br>
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer=
sity Bremen gGmbH<br>
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28=
759 Bremen | Germany<br>
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"https://www.jacobs-university.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.jacobs-university.de/</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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> On Aug 7, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
>=20
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:17 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder =
<j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de =
<mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>> wrote:
> Adrian,
>=20
> technical discussion of the drafts on the mailing list would help more
> than having process meta-discussions. It is good to know who (other
> than the authors) is volunteering to substantially review the drafts,
> is willing to contribute to the discussions of any issues, and is
> planning to implement the technology defined in the drafts as this
> will likely help the chairs to make a decision.
>=20
>=20
> IMO it makes more sense to discuss what problems the NETCONF/NETMOD =
WGs
> should be solving, rather than adoption of solutions to problems.

Precisely.=20

Coming out of the meeting, it was not clear to us (the chairs, at =
least), whether the problem the drafts were describing are issues the WG =
wanted to see solved. We are hoping that the individual e-mails on the =
drafts trigger the kind of technical discussion that leads us to get a =
gauge of what the WG thinks are the problems they want to see solved, or =
not solved. As Juergen suggests, when responding, it would be great to =
see who, outside the pool of authors, is willing to review the drafts, =
contribute to the discussion of the draft, and is planning to implement =
the draft.=20

For us it will also answer the process question of whether the drafts =
should be adopted or not, in which case we can skip the adoption poll.

> The WG should be
> finishing up configured notifications. Try to standardize binary =
telemetry instead
> of just leaving placeholders for proprietary vendor solutions.

Good point. While we are at it, we should discuss whether these are =
problems WG should be working on.

>=20
> Your questions are most relevant because we do not have any clear =
definition
> or "support" or "oppose" for adoption of a draft.
> Support often means "I am happy for you to work on this draft".
> The culture of the IETF creates a strong bias against anybody actually
> opposing adoption of anything. Usual attitude: "Let people experiment. =
Maybe they will
> come up with something good in the end."
>=20
> If only the co-authors support, and nobody opposes, then the work will =
get stuck.
> Often WGs adopt after such a poll outcome and act surprised a year =
later when
> the draft goes nowhere.
>=20
>=20
> Andy
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> /js
>=20
> On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 09:59:15AM +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> > Hi chairs,
> >=20
> > I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there =
is interest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you =
that a hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming =
the opinion on the mailing list.
> >=20
> > But I'm worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of =
process into how we process documents.
> >=20
> > The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the =
chairs that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in =
addition to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at =
adoption time (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, =
and we have seen one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their =
responsibilities, it seems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now =
you appear to be introducing an additional step to test "adoption =
suitability".
> >=20
> > Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you =
adoption suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to =
adoption without making the working group go though a prolonged series =
of polls. We would, I think, prefer to get on with the work!
> >=20
> > Best,
> > Adrian
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
> > Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13
> > To: netconf@ietf..org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>
> > Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
> >=20
> >=20
> > NETCONF WG,
> >=20
> >=20
> > The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums =
conducted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results =
didn=E2=80=99t adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In =
particular, it wasn=E2=80=99t clear if the hums reflected a general =
desire to solve the problem or support for the particular draft.
> >=20
> > As such, we=E2=80=99ve decided to send subsequent emails for each =
draft, or set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following =
questions:
> >=20
> >     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
> >     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
> >=20
> >=20
> > NETCONF Chairs
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > netconf mailing list
> > netconf@ietf.org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf>
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > netconf mailing list
> > netconf@ietf.org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf>
>=20
> --=20
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/ =
<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf>
Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com




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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 7, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Andy Bierman &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy@yumaworks.com" class=3D"">andy@yumaworks.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hi,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:17 AM Juergen =
Schoenwaelder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" =
class=3D"">j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Adrian,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">technical discussion of the drafts on the =
mailing list would help more<br class=3D"">than having process =
meta-discussions. It is good to know who (other<br class=3D"">than the =
authors) is volunteering to substantially review the drafts,<br =
class=3D"">is willing to contribute to the discussions of any issues, =
and is<br class=3D"">planning to implement the technology defined in the =
drafts as this<br class=3D"">will likely help the chairs to make a =
decision.<br class=3D""></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">IMO =
it makes more sense to discuss what problems the NETCONF/NETMOD =
WGs</div><div class=3D"">should be solving, rather than adoption of =
solutions&nbsp;to problems. =
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Precisely.&nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Coming out of the meeting, it was not clear to us =
(the chairs, at least), whether the problem the drafts were describing =
are issues the WG wanted to see solved. We are hoping that the =
individual e-mails on the drafts trigger the kind of technical =
discussion that leads us to get a gauge of what the WG thinks are the =
problems they want to see solved, or not solved. As Juergen suggests, =
when responding, it would be great to see who, outside the pool of =
authors, is willing to review the drafts, contribute to the discussion =
of the draft, and is planning to implement the =
draft.&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>For us it will also =
answer the process question of whether the drafts should be adopted or =
not, in which case we can skip the adoption poll.</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">The WG =
should be</div><div class=3D"">finishing up configured notifications. =
Try to standardize binary telemetry instead</div><div class=3D"">of just =
leaving placeholders for proprietary vendor =
solutions.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Good point. While we are at it, we should discuss =
whether these are problems WG should be working on.</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Your questions are most relevant =
because we do not have any clear definition</div><div class=3D"">or =
"support" or "oppose" for adoption of a draft.</div><div =
class=3D"">Support often means "I am happy for you to work on this =
draft".</div><div class=3D"">The culture of the IETF creates a strong =
bias against anybody actually</div><div class=3D"">opposing adoption of =
anything. Usual attitude: "Let people experiment. Maybe they =
will</div><div class=3D"">come up with something good in the =
end."</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If only =
the co-authors support, and nobody opposes, then the work will get =
stuck.</div><div class=3D"">Often WGs adopt after such a poll outcome =
and act surprised&nbsp;a year later when</div><div class=3D"">the draft =
goes nowhere.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Andy</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; =
border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
padding-left: 1ex;"><br class=3D"">/js<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On =
Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 09:59:15AM +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote:<br =
class=3D"">&gt; Hi chairs,<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; I think =
this is an interesting approach to determining whether there is interest =
in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you that a hum =
at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming the opinion =
on the mailing list.<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; But I'm =
worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of process into =
how we process documents.<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; The =
adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the chairs =
that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in =
addition to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at =
adoption time (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, =
and we have seen one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their =
responsibilities, it seems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now =
you appear to be introducing an additional step to test "adoption =
suitability".<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; Can I =
urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you adoption =
suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to adoption =
without making the working group go though a prolonged series of polls. =
We would, I think, prefer to get on with the work!<br class=3D"">&gt;<span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; =
Best,<br class=3D"">&gt; Adrian<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; =
-----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">&gt; From: netconf &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">netconf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Kent Watsen<br =
class=3D"">&gt; Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13<br class=3D"">&gt; To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">netconf@ietf..org</a><br class=3D"">&gt; Subject: [netconf] =
Regarding 108 adoption hums<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; NETCONF =
WG,<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; The =
Chairs &amp; AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums =
conducted during the 108 meeting.&nbsp; There is a sense that the =
results didn=E2=80=99t adequately determine if the drafts should be =
adopted.&nbsp; In particular, it wasn=E2=80=99t clear if the hums =
reflected a general desire to solve the problem or support for the =
particular draft.<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; As =
such, we=E2=80=99ve decided to send subsequent emails for each draft, or =
set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following =
questions:<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt;&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br =
class=3D"">&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;2) is the draft a suitable basis for =
the work?<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; NETCONF =
Chairs<br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt;<span =
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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>=20
> NETCONF WG,
>=20
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:
>=20
>    Title: Conveying a CSR in an SZTP Bootstrapping Request
>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/ =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/>draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
>    Abstract:
>=20
>       This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in
>       RFC 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request =
(CSR),
>       enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an =
identity
>       certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the
>       "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply.
>=20
>=20
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to =
the following questions:
>=20
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?

I believe that it is important to configure an LDevID certificate as =
part of the bootstrap, and authentication based on the IDevID seems like =
the most pragmatic way to do so.

>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?

As a co-author I am biased; however, I think this is a good start at the =
work to be done.  I am aware of one implementation that is underway.

If adopted, I am willing to continue to work on the document as a =
co-author.

Russ



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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would =
like to solicit input on the following draft:</span><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><font class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Conveying a CSR in =
an&nbsp;</span></font><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">SZTP Bootstrapping Request</span><div class=3D""><font =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr</span></font><br =
class=3D""><font class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</font><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined =
in</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
RFC&nbsp;</span></font><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">8572&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">to include an optional certificate signing request =
(CSR),</span><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; enabling a bootstrapping =
device to additionally obtain an identity</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE =
802.1AR) as part of the</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; "onboarding information" response provided in the =
RPC-reply.</span></font></div><br class=3D""></div><font class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font><font class=3D"">In particular, please discuss =
adoption-suitability as it regards to the following =
questions:</font></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the =
NETCONF WG to solve?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">I believe that it is =
important to configure an LDevID certificate as part of the bootstrap, =
and authentication based on the IDevID seems like the most pragmatic way =
to do so.</div></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the =
work?</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div>As a co-author I am biased; however, I think this is a =
good start at the work to be done. &nbsp;I am aware of one =
implementation that is underway.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If adopted, I am willing to continue to =
work on the document as a co-author.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Russ</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }div.FoxDiv20200810150050915062 { =
word-wrap: break-word; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Microsoft =
YaHei UI'; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }</style></head><body>=
=0A<div><span></span>Hi,&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-heigh=
t: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">Chairs</span></div><div><br></div>=
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0=
);">&nbsp; &nbsp; I would like to</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;contribute to the =
draft.&nbsp;</span></div><span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-si=
ze:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" background-co=
lor:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-style:=3D"" nor=
mal;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D""><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1)&nbsp;=
is&nbsp;the&nbsp;problem&nbsp;important&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;NETCONF&nbs=
p;WG&nbsp;to&nbsp;solve?<br>&nbsp;<br>I&nbsp;believe&nbsp;that&nbsp;it&nbs=
p;is&nbsp;important&nbsp;to&nbsp;enable&nbsp;subscriber&nbsp;and&nbsp;publ=
isher&nbsp;to&nbsp;agree&nbsp;upon&nbsp;transport&nbsp;protocol&nbsp;(e.g.=
,&nbsp;TCP,&nbsp;UDP),&nbsp;encoding&nbsp;format&nbsp;(e.g.,binary&nbsp;en=
coding,xml,&nbsp;json),&nbsp;encryption,&nbsp;compression&nbsp;mode&nbsp;t=
o&nbsp;be&nbsp;used<br>and&nbsp;allow&nbsp;the&nbsp;client&nbsp;to&nbsp;se=
lect&nbsp;specific&nbsp;transport&nbsp;protocol,&nbsp;encoding&nbsp;format=
,etc&nbsp;when&nbsp;subscribing&nbsp;datastore&nbsp;node&nbsp;update.<br>A=
nd&nbsp;I&nbsp;also&nbsp;believe&nbsp;that&nbsp;the&nbsp;NETCONF&nbsp;WG&n=
bsp;is&nbsp;the&nbsp;appropriate&nbsp;WG&nbsp;for&nbsp;this&nbsp;work.&nbs=
p;draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities&nbsp;provides&nbsp;a&nbsp;g=
ood&nbsp;basis&nbsp;for&nbsp;server&nbsp;capabilities&nbsp;advertisement.<=
br>Addition&nbsp;data&nbsp;export&nbsp;capability&nbsp;can&nbsp;be&nbsp;bu=
ilt&nbsp;on&nbsp;top&nbsp;of&nbsp;it.<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;2)&nbsp;is&nbsp;the&nbsp;draft&nbsp;a&nbsp;suitable&nbsp;basis&nbsp;for&n=
bsp;the&nbsp;work?<br>&nbsp;<br>I&nbsp;have&nbsp;read&nbsp;the&nbsp;latest=
&nbsp;version&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;draft&nbsp;and&nbsp;believe&nbsp;it&nb=
sp;has&nbsp;been&nbsp;in&nbsp;good&nbsp;shape&nbsp;and&nbsp;served&nbsp;as=
&nbsp;a&nbsp;reasonable&nbsp;good&nbsp;starting&nbsp;point.<br>If&nbsp;thi=
s&nbsp;work&nbsp;gets&nbsp;adopted,&nbsp;I&nbsp;am&nbsp;willing&nbsp;to&nb=
sp;review&nbsp;this&nbsp;work&nbsp;as&nbsp;contributor&nbsp;and&nbsp;contr=
ibute&nbsp;to&nbsp;any&nbsp;discussion&nbsp;needed&nbsp;and<br>we&nbsp;are=
&nbsp;interested&nbsp;to&nbsp;implement&nbsp;and&nbsp;plan&nbsp;to&nbsp;de=
ploy&nbsp;this&nbsp;technology.</span><span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=
=3D"" font-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" =
background-color:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-st=
yle:=3D"" normal;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D""><br><br><br>Best Regard=
s<span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" colo=
r:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" background-color:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" f=
ont-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-style:=3D"" normal;text-decoration:=3D"=
" none;'=3D""><br>Zongpeng&nbsp;Du</span></span><div><span microsoft=3D"" =
yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=
=3D"" 0);=3D"" background-color:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" norma=
l;=3D"" font-style:=3D"" normal;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D""><br></sp=
an><div>=0A<!--EndFragment--></div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;=
" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A<div><span><div style=3D"=
margin: 10px;"><div><a href=3D"mailto:duzongpeng@foxmail.com" style=3D"fon=
t-family: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px; background-color: transparent;">d=
uzongpeng@foxmail.com</a><span style=3D"font-family: verdana; font-size: 1=
3.3333px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;=
&amp;&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"background-color: transparent; font-size:=
 13.3333px; line-height: 20px;"><font face=3D"verdana">duzongpeng@chinamob=
ile.com</font></span></div><font face=3D"verdana"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 13.3333px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); font=
-size: 13.3333px;"></span></font></div></span></div>=0A<blockquote style=
=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5em; margin-Right:=
 inherit"><div>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C=
4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PAD=
DING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROU=
ND: #efefef; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>From:</b>&nbsp=
;<a href=3D"mailto:kent+ietf@watsen.net">Kent Watsen</a></div><div><b>Date=
:</b>&nbsp;2020-08-06&nbsp;06:17</div><div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mail=
to:netconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[=
netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabiliti=
es</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv20200810150050915062">=0A<br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color=
: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rg=
b(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rg=
b(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per the previous email sent m=
oments ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the following draft:=
</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
s=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=
=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">Telemetry Data Export capability</span></font><div class=3D""><=
font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a href=3D"https://to=
ols.ietf.org/html/" class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a></font><spa=
n style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">dra=
ft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities</span><br class=3D""><font color=
=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</font><br class=3D""><br cl=
ass=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"=
"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; This document proposes a YANG module for telemetry data export</span></=
font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=
=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; capability=
 which augments system Capabilities model and provides</span></font></div>=
<div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; additional telemetry d=
ata export attributes associated with system</span></font></div><div class=
=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0=
, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; capability for transport depende=
nt capability negotiation.</span></font></div><br class=3D""></div><font c=
olor=3D"#000000" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D"">In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regard=
s to the following questions:</font></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0=
, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=
=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nb=
sp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br class=3D""=
>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?</div><div st=
yle=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br cla=
ss=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, bu=
t rather an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential future adopt=
ion poll.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">NETCONF Chairs</div></div></div></d=
iv></div></blockquote>=0A</div></body></html>
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:08:30 +0800
From: "duzongpeng@foxmail.com" <duzongpeng@foxmail.com>
To: "Kent Watsen" <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>,  duzongpeng <duzongpeng@chinamobile.com>
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Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DISO-8859-1"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }div.FoxDiv202008101606338186=
25 { word-wrap: break-word; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Micro=
soft YaHei UI'; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }</style></head><bo=
dy>=0A<div><span></span><div><div>Hi,&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5p=
t; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">Chairs</span></div><d=
iv><br></div><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rg=
ba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp; &nbsp; I would like to</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;contr=
ibute to the draft.&nbsp;</span></div><span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=
=3D"" font-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" =
background-color:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-st=
yle:=3D"" normal;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D""><br></span><span micros=
oft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0=
,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" background-color:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=
=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-style:=3D"" normal;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D=
""><span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" co=
lor:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" background-color:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D""=
 font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-style:=3D"" normal;text-decoration:=
=3D"" none;'=3D""><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the N=
ETCONF WG to solve?</div><div><br></div><div>I believe that it is importan=
t to adjust the volume of telemetry traffic sent from publisher to the rec=
eivers based on situation changes Adaptive subscription draft</div><div>en=
ables various subscription policy based on threshold support, timer-event-=
support and support multiple update interval, can effectively eliminate da=
ta collection&nbsp;</div><div>performance bottleneck on the device.</div><=
div>And I also believe that the NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this =
work. RFC8639 and RFC8640 provide a good basis for this work.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<=
/div><div><br></div><div>I have read the latest version of the draft and b=
elieve it has been in good shape and served as a reasonable good starting =
point.</div><div>I have been aware one implementation ongoing. One white p=
aper has been planned for publication to make the whole community benefit =
from it.</div><div>If this work gets adopted, I am willing to review this =
work as contributor and contribute to any discussion needed and&nbsp;</div=
><div>we are interested to implement and plan to deploy this technology.</=
div></span><br><br>Best Regards<span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" f=
ont-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" backgro=
und-color:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-style:=3D=
"" normal;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D""><br>Zongpeng&nbsp;Du</span></s=
pan></div></div><div><br></div>=0A<div><br></div><hr style=3D"width: 210px=
; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A<div><span>=
<div style=3D"margin: 10px;"><div><a href=3D"mailto:duzongpeng@foxmail.com=
" style=3D"font-family: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px; background-color: t=
ransparent;">duzongpeng@foxmail.com</a><span style=3D"font-family: verdana=
; font-size: 13.3333px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, =
0, 0);">&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"background-color: transpare=
nt; font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: 20px;"><font face=3D"verdana">duzon=
gpeng@chinamobile.com</font></span></div><font face=3D"verdana"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, =
0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;"></span></font></div></span></div>=0A<bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5em; m=
argin-Right: inherit"><div>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"border:none;border-to=
p:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIG=
HT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#0000=
00; BACKGROUND: #efefef; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>Fr=
om:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:kent+ietf@watsen.net">Kent Watsen</a></div>=
<div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2020-08-06&nbsp;06:18</div><div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a></div><div><b>Subject=
:</b>&nbsp;[netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-=
subscription</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv2020081016063381862=
5">=0A<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
s=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rg=
b(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rg=
b(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chair=
s would like to solicit input on the following draft:</span><div style=3D"=
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""=
></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"c=
aret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;Adaptive Su=
bscription to YANG Notification</span></font><div class=3D""><font color=
=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=
=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang=
-netconf-adaptive-subscription" class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra=
ft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription</a></span></font><br class=3D""><fon=
t color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</span></font><br class=3D""><br class=3D=
""><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret=
-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document defin=
es a YANG data model and associated mechanism</span></font></div><div clas=
s=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(=
0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; enabling subscriber's adaptive =
subscriptions to a publisher's event</span></font></div><div class=3D""><f=
ont color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);=
" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; streams at various different period inte=
rvals with which to report</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=
=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=
=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; updates. &nbsp;Applying these elements allows b=
oth subscriber and</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#0000=
00" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; publisher to automatically adjust the volume of telemetry =
traffic</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=
=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; sent from publisher to the receivers.</span></font></div><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=
=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font><br class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">In partic=
ular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the following q=
uestions:</span></font></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); colo=
r: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-colo=
r: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the =
problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;=
 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<br class=3D""><br class=3D=
""><br class=3D"">PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rat=
her an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption p=
oll.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">NETCONF Chairs<br class=3D""></div></div=
></div></div></blockquote>=0A</body></html>
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:10:27 +0800
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To: "Kent Watsen" <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>,  duzongpeng <duzongpeng@chinamobile.com>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DISO-8859-1"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }div.FoxDiv202008101609085412=
73 { word-wrap: break-word; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Micro=
soft YaHei UI'; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }</style></head><bo=
dy>=0A<div><span></span><span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-siz=
e:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" background-col=
or:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-style:=3D"" norm=
al;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D"">Hi,&nbsp;Chairs<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;I&nbsp;would&nbsp;like&nbsp;to&nbsp;contribute&nbsp;to&nbsp;the&=
nbsp;draft.&nbsp;<br><br><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important fo=
r the NETCONF WG to solve?</div><div><br></div><div>I believe that it is i=
mportant to allow the publishers to understand which specific subscription=
s can be bundled together and which not.</div><div>Bulk Subscription can w=
ork together [I-D.ietf-netconf-notification-messages] and allow the publis=
hers to report multiple notification in a single bundling message.</div><d=
iv>And I also believe that the NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this w=
ork. RFC8639 and RFC8640 provide a good basis for this work.</div><div><br=
></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?</=
div><div><br></div><div>I have read the latest version of the draft and be=
lieve it has been in good shape and served as a reasonable good starting p=
oint.</div><div>One white paper has been planned for publication to make t=
he whole community benefit from it.</div><div>If this work gets adopted, I=
 am willing to review this work as contributor and contribute to any discu=
ssion needed.</div><br><br>Best&nbsp;Regards<br>Zongpeng&nbsp;Du</span></d=
iv>=0A<div><br></div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5=
c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A<div><span><div style=3D"margin: 10px;"=
><div><a href=3D"mailto:duzongpeng@foxmail.com" style=3D"font-family: verd=
ana; font-size: 13.3333px; background-color: transparent;">duzongpeng@foxm=
ail.com</a><span style=3D"font-family: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px; colo=
r: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"background-color: transparent; font-size: 13.3333px; li=
ne-height: 20px;"><font face=3D"verdana">duzongpeng@chinamobile.com</font>=
</span></div><font face=3D"verdana"><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333=
px;"></span></font></div></span></div>=0A<blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: =
0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5em; margin-Right: inherit"><div>&=
nbsp;</div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;paddin=
g:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; =
FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefef; PAD=
DING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>From:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mail=
to:kent+ietf@watsen.net">Kent Watsen</a></div><div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2020-=
08-06&nbsp;06:18</div><div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.=
org">netconf@ietf.org</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[netconf] Adoptio=
n-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications</div></=
div></div><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv20200810160908541273">=0A<div class=3D"=
"><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"car=
et-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br style=3D"care=
t-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span style=3D"car=
et-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per the previous =
email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the foll=
owing draft:</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#00=
0000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(=
0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Bulk Subscription to YANG Event Notification</span><=
/font><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link=
: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/</a><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">draft-wa=
ng-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications</span></font><br class=3D""><font=
 color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</font><br class=3D"">=
<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><font color=
=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=
=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document defines a YANG data model and ass=
ociated mechanism that</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#=
000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; allows subscriber applications to bulk subscribe to pu=
blishers' event</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000"=
 class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; streams based on bundle group information such as bundle size=
 and</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""=
><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; bundle latency. &nbsp;This allows the publishers to report multiple</spa=
n></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span st=
yle=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; notific=
ations in a single bundling message.</span></font></div><br class=3D""></d=
iv></div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font><font co=
lor=3D"#000000" class=3D"">In particular, please discuss adoption-suitabil=
ity as it regards to the following questions:</font></div><div style=3D"ca=
ret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""><=
/div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=
=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solv=
e?<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the wo=
rk?</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" cl=
ass=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: this message is itself not an a=
doption poll, but rather an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potent=
ial future adoption poll.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">NETCONF Chairs</div=
></div></div></div></div></blockquote>=0A</body></html>
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:58:42 +0800
From: "duzongpeng@foxmail.com" <duzongpeng@foxmail.com>
To: "Kent Watsen" <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities
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Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DISO-8859-1"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }div.FoxDiv202008101657107913=
36 { }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI'; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }</style></head><body>=0A<div><span></span=
></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Le=
ft: 0.5em; margin-Right: inherit"><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv202008101657107=
91336"><div><div>Hi,&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1=
.5; background-color: transparent;">Chairs</span></div><div><br></div><div=
><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">=
&nbsp; &nbsp; I would like to</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line=
-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;contribute to the draf=
t.&nbsp;</span></div><span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-size:=
=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" background-color=
:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-style:=3D"" normal=
;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D""><br></span><span microsoft=3D"" yahei=
=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D""=
 0);=3D"" background-color:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D=
"" font-style:=3D"" normal;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D""><span microso=
ft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=
=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" background-color:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D=
"" normal;=3D"" font-style:=3D"" normal;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D"">=
&nbsp; &nbsp; 1)&nbsp;is&nbsp;the&nbsp;problem&nbsp;important&nbsp;for&nbs=
p;the&nbsp;NETCONF&nbsp;WG&nbsp;to&nbsp;solve?<br><br>I&nbsp;believe&nbsp;=
that&nbsp;it&nbsp;is&nbsp;important&nbsp;to&nbsp;capture&nbsp;characterist=
ics&nbsp;data&nbsp;or&nbsp;KPI&nbsp;data&nbsp;for&nbsp;service&nbsp;assura=
nce&nbsp;application&nbsp;and&nbsp;reduce&nbsp;the&nbsp;amount&nbsp;of&nbs=
p;<br>unnecessary&nbsp;data&nbsp;to&nbsp;be&nbsp;streamed&nbsp;out&nbsp;to=
&nbsp;the&nbsp;destination.&nbsp;Telemetry&nbsp;data&nbsp;tagging&nbsp;cap=
ability&nbsp;draft&nbsp;provides&nbsp;telemetry&nbsp;data&nbsp;classificat=
ion&nbsp;and&nbsp;<br>help&nbsp;the&nbsp;client&nbsp;only&nbsp;fetch&nbsp;=
characteristics&nbsp;data.<br>And&nbsp;I&nbsp;also&nbsp;believe&nbsp;that&=
nbsp;the&nbsp;NETCONF&nbsp;WG&nbsp;is&nbsp;the&nbsp;appropriate&nbsp;WG&nb=
sp;for&nbsp;this&nbsp;work.&nbsp;draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilit=
ies&nbsp;provides&nbsp;a&nbsp;good&nbsp;basis&nbsp;for&nbsp;server&nbsp;ca=
pabilities&nbsp;advertisement&nbsp;and&nbsp;has&nbsp;already&nbsp;stable&n=
bsp;for&nbsp;publication.<br>Telemetry&nbsp;data&nbsp;tagging&nbsp;capabil=
ity&nbsp;can&nbsp;be&nbsp;built&nbsp;on&nbsp;top&nbsp;of&nbsp;it.<br><br>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2)&nbsp;is&nbsp;the&nbsp;draft&nbsp;a&nbsp;suitable=
&nbsp;basis&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;work?<br><br>I&nbsp;have&nbsp;read&nbsp=
;the&nbsp;latest&nbsp;version&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;draft&nbsp;and&nbsp;be=
lieve&nbsp;it&nbsp;has&nbsp;been&nbsp;in&nbsp;good&nbsp;shape&nbsp;and&nbs=
p;served&nbsp;as&nbsp;a&nbsp;reasonable&nbsp;good&nbsp;starting&nbsp;point=
.<br>I&nbsp;have&nbsp;been&nbsp;aware&nbsp;one&nbsp;implementation&nbsp;ha=
s&nbsp;been&nbsp;demonstrated&nbsp;last&nbsp;year&nbsp;in&nbsp;IETF&nbsp;h=
ackathon.<br>If&nbsp;this&nbsp;work&nbsp;gets&nbsp;adopted,&nbsp;I&nbsp;am=
&nbsp;willing&nbsp;to&nbsp;review&nbsp;this&nbsp;work&nbsp;as&nbsp;contrib=
utor&nbsp;and&nbsp;contribute&nbsp;to&nbsp;any&nbsp;discussion&nbsp;needed=
&nbsp;and&nbsp;<br>we&nbsp;are&nbsp;interested&nbsp;to&nbsp;implement&nbsp=
;and&nbsp;plan&nbsp;to&nbsp;deploy&nbsp;this&nbsp;technology.<br></span><b=
r><br>Best Regards<span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-size:=3D"=
" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" background-color:=3D=
"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-style:=3D"" normal;tex=
t-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D""><br>Zongpeng&nbsp;Du</span></span></div>=0A=
<div><br></div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" =
size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A<div><span><div style=3D"margin: 10px;"><div>=
<a href=3D"mailto:duzongpeng@foxmail.com" style=3D"font-family: verdana; f=
ont-size: 13.3333px; background-color: transparent;">duzongpeng@foxmail.co=
m</a><span style=3D"font-family: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D"background-color: transparent; font-size: 13.3333px; line-hei=
ght: 20px;"><font face=3D"verdana">duzongpeng@chinamobile.com</font></span=
></div><font face=3D"verdana"><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;"><=
/span></font></div></span></div>=0A<blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; m=
argin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5em; margin-Right: inherit"><div>&nbsp;<=
/div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0p=
t 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-S=
IZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefef; PADDING-B=
OTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>From:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:ken=
t+ietf@watsen.net">Kent Watsen</a></div><div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2020-08-06&=
nbsp;06:17</div><div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org">n=
etconf@ietf.org</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[netconf] Adoption-suit=
ability for draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities</div></div></div=
><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv20200810154507469799" style=3D"word-wrap: break-=
word;">=0A<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0=
, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"c=
aret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br style=3D"ca=
ret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><span style=3D"c=
aret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per the previou=
s email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the fo=
llowing draft:</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0=
, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#=
000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rg=
b(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Self-explanation data Node tag capability</span></=
font><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link:=
 <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/</a><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">draft-tao=
-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities</span></font><br class=3D""><font col=
or=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</font><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><font color=3D"=
#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">=
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Before a client application subscribes to updates fro=
m a datastore,</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; server capabilities related to "Subscription to YANG Datastore=
s" can</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D=
""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; be advertised using YANG Instance Data format. &nbsp;These server</spa=
n></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span st=
yle=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; capabil=
ities can be documented at implement time or reported at run-</span></font=
></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"c=
aret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; time.</span></f=
ont></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=
=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font></=
div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"care=
t-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document prop=
oses a YANG module for self-explanation data Node</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; tag capability which augmen=
ts system capabilities model and provide</span></font></div><div class=3D"=
"><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0,=
 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; additional self-explanation data nod=
e attributes associated with node</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font=
 color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" c=
lass=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; selectors within per-node capabilities.</sp=
an></font></div><br class=3D""></div></div><font color=3D"#000000" class=
=3D""><br class=3D""></font><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">In particul=
ar, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the following que=
stions:</font></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0,=
 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0,=
 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem i=
mportant for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is th=
e draft a suitable basis for the work?</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">=
PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to =
gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br class=3D""=
><br class=3D"">NETCONF Chairs</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote>=
=0A</div></div></blockquote>=0A</body></html>
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From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
Thread-Index: AQHWa3W0/zcfmCeL8EOO/Z5e6RwUCakr1QWAgAAFB4CAAOmVAIAEVCng
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:36:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:37:33 -0700
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To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Hi,

I am trying to understand the NETCONF WG plan for UDP transport of
notifications.

The WG was developing a UDP draft already I think, and it was dropped.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel-05

Since the WG dropped this problem and work item already, why should it
reverse that decision
and start over with a new solution?


Andy


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

> NETCONF WG,
>
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
> input on the following draft:
>
>    Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions
>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>    Abstract:
>
>       This document describes an UDP-based notification mechanism to
>       collect data from networking devices.  A shim header is proposed to
>       facilitate the streaming of data directly from line cards to a
>       collector.  The objective is to rely on a lightweight approach to
>       allow for higher frequency and better transit performance compared to
>       already established notification mechanisms.
>
>
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
> following questions:
>
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
> gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>
> NETCONF Chairs
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>

--000000000000a7df9e05ac8b16ba
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to understand the NETCO=
NF WG plan for UDP transport of notifications.</div><div><br></div><div>The=
 WG was developing a UDP draft already I think, and it was dropped.</div><d=
iv><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channe=
l-05" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-=
pub-channel-05</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Since the WG dropped this p=
roblem and work item already, why should it reverse that decision</div><div=
>and start over with a new solution?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><di=
v>Andy</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen=
.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex">NETCONF WG,<br>
<br>
Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit i=
nput on the following draft:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netco=
nf-udp-notif" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes an UDP-based notification mech=
anism to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 collect data from networking devices.=C2=A0 A shim hea=
der is proposed to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 facilitate the streaming of data directly from line ca=
rds to a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 collector.=C2=A0 The objective is to rely on a lightwe=
ight approach to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 allow for higher frequency and better transit performa=
nce compared to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 already established notification mechanisms.<br>
<br>
<br>
In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the fol=
lowing questions:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<br>
<br>
<br>
PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to g=
auge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br>
<br>
NETCONF Chairs<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000a7df9e05ac8b16ba--


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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38:42 -0700
Message-ID: <CABCOCHTP5boMJpCvhjd=Ur9sTr-+Ea0gSzOJnY_YToHGdurhsA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif
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Hi,

I am trying to understand what problem this draft attempts to solve.
It appears from the solution proposal is that the problem to be solved is
the lack of message generator identifiers associated with configured
subscriptions.
These identifiers could presumably help a client understand some
implementation details
related to a subscription.  The solution seems to rely on the
message-generator-id
field in the notification message (which does not exist in current RFCs).

I do not understand why the client needs this feature.


Andy


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

> NETCONF WG,
>
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
> input on the following draft:
>
>    Title: Subscription to Distributed Notifications
>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif
>    Abstract:
>
>       This documents describes extensions to the YANG notifications
>       subscription to allow metrics being published directly from
>       processors on line cards to target receivers, while subscription is
>       still maintained at the route processor in a distributed forwarding
>       system.
>
>
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
> following questions:
>
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
> gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>
> NETCONF Chairs
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>

--000000000000c98b5505ac8b1a43
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to understand what prob=
lem this draft attempts to solve.</div><div>It appears from the solution pr=
oposal is that the problem to be solved is</div><div>the lack of message ge=
nerator identifiers associated with configured subscriptions.</div><div>The=
se identifiers could presumably help a client understand some implementatio=
n details</div><div>related=C2=A0to a subscription.=C2=A0 The solution seem=
s to rely on the message-generator-id</div><div>field in the notification m=
essage (which does not exist in current RFCs).</div><div><br></div><div>I d=
o not understand why the client needs this feature.</div><div><br></div><di=
v><br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Ke=
nt Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank">k=
ent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex"><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">NETCONF WG,</span>=
<br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs w=
ould like to solicit input on the following draft:</span><div style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Tit=
le:=C2=A0Subscription to Distributed Notifications</span></font><div><font =
color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif" target=3D"_blank">https://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif</a></span></font><br=
><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract:</span></font><br><br>=
<div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This documents desc=
ribes extensions to the YANG notifications</span></font></div><div><font co=
lor=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 subscription to allow metrics be=
ing published directly from</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"=
><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 processors on line cards to target receivers, w=
hile subscription is</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 still maintained at the route processor in a distribut=
ed forwarding</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 system.</span></font></div><font color=3D"#000000"><span><div=
><font color=3D"#000000"><span><br></span></font></div><br></span></font><f=
ont color=3D"#000000"><span>In particular, please discuss adoption-suitabil=
ity as it regards to the following questions:</span></font></div><div style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?</div><div style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)"><br><br>PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but r=
ather an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption =
poll.<br><br>NETCONF Chairs<br></div></div></div>__________________________=
_____________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:39:05 -0700
Message-ID: <CABCOCHRa_Cn-okadfVz1n9P2U5Z35k8r5ws58Oib8sx4YvYE+A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
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Hi,

I am trying to understand the problem this draft is attempting to solve.
The premise seems to be that the error handling and "hints" mechanism
in RFC 8639 and RFC 8641 do not work and the client needs to retrieve
extensive monitoring info to determine how to setup notifications on the
server.
In theory this data could be used to prevent an <rpc-error> to be returned
for <establish_subscription> or <edit-config>

IMO the current approach is much better than this proposed approach.
The server can provide the hints based on the exact request from the client.
The static "per-node" monitoring data can be quite large, and yet not
provide
the correct answer for a specific combination of subscription parameters.


Andy


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:17 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

>
> NETCONF WG,
>
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
> input on the following draft:
>
>    Title: Telemetry Data Export capability
>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/
> draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
>    Abstract:
>
>       This document proposes a YANG module for telemetry data export
>       capability which augments system Capabilities model and provides
>       additional telemetry data export attributes associated with system
>       capability for transport dependent capability negotiation.
>
>
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
> following questions:
>
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
> gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>
> NETCONF Chairs
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>

--00000000000027337c05ac8b1c51
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to understand the probl=
em this draft is attempting to solve.</div><div>The premise seems to be tha=
t the error handling and &quot;hints&quot; mechanism=C2=A0</div><div>in RFC=
 8639 and RFC 8641 do not work and the client needs to retrieve</div><div>e=
xtensive monitoring info to determine how to setup notifications on the ser=
ver.</div><div>In theory this data could be used to prevent an &lt;rpc-erro=
r&gt; to be returned</div><div>for &lt;establish_subscription&gt; or &lt;ed=
it-config&gt;</div><div><br></div><div>IMO the current approach is much bet=
ter than this proposed approach.</div><div>The server can provide the hints=
 based on the exact request from the client.</div><div>The static &quot;per=
-node&quot; monitoring data can be quite large, and yet not provide</div><d=
iv>the correct answer for a specific combination of subscription parameters=
.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, =
Aug 5, 2020 at 3:17 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen=
.net" target=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br><div><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0)">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Per the previous ema=
il sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the followin=
g draft:</span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div><font color=
=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Title:=C2=A0<span>Telemetry Data Export capabilit=
y</span></font><div><font color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link: <a href=3D"h=
ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
</a></font><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">draft-tao-netconf-data-export-c=
apabilities</span><br><font color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract:</font>=
<br><br><div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This d=
ocument proposes a YANG module for telemetry data export</span></font></div=
><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 capability which a=
ugments system Capabilities model and provides</span></font></div><div><fon=
t color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 additional telemetry data ex=
port attributes associated with system</span></font></div><div><font color=
=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 capability for transport dependent =
capability negotiation.</span></font></div><br></div><font color=3D"#000000=
"><br></font><font color=3D"#000000">In particular, please discuss adoption=
-suitability as it regards to the following questions:</font></div><div sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?</div><div style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0)"><br><br>PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, bu=
t rather an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential future adopti=
on poll.<br><br>NETCONF Chairs</div></div></div></div>_____________________=
__________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:39:19 -0700
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities
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--000000000000f7714205ac8b1cf9
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Hi,

I am trying to understand the problem statement in this draft.
It seems to be a way to assign various tags to data node objects.
It uses the tags type from ietf-module-tags, which implies that modules and
nodes
share the same set of tags.

There is also an assumption that the error/hints mechanism in RFC 8639 and
8641
do not work and this significant amount of proposed metadata could be used
to avoid
receiving an <rpc-error> for an <establish-subscription> or <edit-config>
request.

IMO the current approach is sufficient and new mechanisms are not needed.

Andy


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:18 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

>
> NETCONF WG,
>
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
> input on the following draft:
>
>    Title: Self-explanation data Node tag capability
>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/
> draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities
>    Abstract:
>
>       Before a client application subscribes to updates from a datastore,
>       server capabilities related to "Subscription to YANG Datastores" can
>       be advertised using YANG Instance Data format.  These server
>       capabilities can be documented at implement time or reported at run-
>       time.
>
>       This document proposes a YANG module for self-explanation data Node
>       tag capability which augments system capabilities model and provide
>       additional self-explanation data node attributes associated with node
>       selectors within per-node capabilities.
>
>
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
> following questions:
>
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
> gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>
> NETCONF Chairs
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>

--000000000000f7714205ac8b1cf9
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to understand the probl=
em statement in this draft.</div><div>It seems to be a way to assign variou=
s tags to data node objects.</div><div>It uses the tags type from ietf-modu=
le-tags, which implies that modules and nodes</div><div>share the same set =
of tags.</div><div><br></div><div>There is also an assumption that the erro=
r/hints mechanism in RFC 8639 and 8641</div><div>do not work and this signi=
ficant amount of proposed metadata could be used to avoid</div><div>receivi=
ng an &lt;rpc-error&gt; for an &lt;establish-subscription&gt; or &lt;edit-c=
onfig&gt; request.</div><div><br></div><div>IMO the current approach is suf=
ficient and new mechanisms are not needed.</div><div><br></div><div>Andy</d=
iv><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:18 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>=
<br><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0)"><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0=
,0)">Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to soli=
cit input on the following draft:</span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br=
></div><div><font color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Title:=C2=A0<span>Self-exp=
lanation data Node tag capability</span></font><div><font color=3D"#000000"=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a><span>draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-=
capabilities</span></font><br><font color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract=
:</font><br><br><div><div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 Before a client application subscribes to updates from a datastore,<=
/span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
server capabilities related to &quot;Subscription to YANG Datastores&quot; =
can</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 be advertised using YANG Instance Data format.=C2=A0 These server</span=
></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 capab=
ilities can be documented at implement time or reported at run-</span></fon=
t></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 time.</span=
></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span><br></span></font></div><d=
iv><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document propose=
s a YANG module for self-explanation data Node</span></font></div><div><fon=
t color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tag capability which augment=
s system capabilities model and provide</span></font></div><div><font color=
=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 additional self-explanation data no=
de attributes associated with node</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#=
000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 selectors within per-node capabilities.<=
/span></font></div><br></div></div><font color=3D"#000000"><br></font><font=
 color=3D"#000000">In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it=
 regards to the following questions:</font></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,=
0,0)"><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1) is the pro=
blem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2) is the draf=
t a suitable basis for the work?</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br><=
br>PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt t=
o gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br><br>NETCO=
NF Chairs</div></div></div></div>__________________________________________=
_____<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:39:32 -0700
Message-ID: <CABCOCHT1tNUcwXffK2GGYvp1LcaTMugcvULYxKGdNL4p5dihdg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription
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Hi,

I am trying to understand the problem statement in this draft.
It appears to propose a complex self-monitoring system so that YANG Push
subscriptions can change their parameters on the fly to adapt to
changing network conditions. E.g. lower the 'period' parameter when
conditions are right, to produce more push-update records than normal.

The problem is somewhat interesting.
The filtering mechanisms in YANG Push are really awful and there is a need
to improve both filter and trigger mechanisms.  I don't think this draft
offers
a reasonable solution, but I encourage further experimentation.
Prove it works in real products then maybe it will be ready for
standardization.


Andy


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:18 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

> NETCONF WG,
>
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
> input on the following draft:
>
>    Title: Adaptive Subscription to YANG Notification
>    Link:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription
>    Abstract:
>
>       This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanism
>       enabling subscriber's adaptive subscriptions to a publisher's event
>       streams at various different period intervals with which to report
>       updates.  Applying these elements allows both subscriber and
>       publisher to automatically adjust the volume of telemetry traffic
>       sent from publisher to the receivers.
>
>
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
> following questions:
>
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
> gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>
> NETCONF Chairs
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>

--000000000000c7b2ca05ac8b1daa
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to understand the probl=
em statement in this draft.</div><div>It appears to propose a complex self-=
monitoring system so that YANG Push</div><div>subscriptions can change thei=
r parameters on the fly to adapt to</div><div>changing network conditions. =
E.g. lower the &#39;period&#39; parameter when</div><div>conditions are rig=
ht, to produce more push-update records than normal.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>The problem is somewhat interesting.</div><div>The filtering mechanisms =
in YANG Push are really awful and there is a need</div><div>to improve both=
 filter and trigger mechanisms.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t think this draft offers</=
div><div>a reasonable solution, but I encourage further experimentation.</d=
iv><div>Prove it works in real products then maybe it will be ready for sta=
ndardization.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></=
div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:18 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent%2=
Bietf@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0)">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Per the previous e=
mail sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the follow=
ing draft:</span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div><font color=
=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Title:=C2=A0Adaptive Subscription to YANG N=
otification</span></font><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Li=
nk: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subs=
cription" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-=
adaptive-subscription</a></span></font><br><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract:</span></font><br><br><div><font color=3D"#000000"><s=
pan>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document defines a YANG data model and associ=
ated mechanism</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 enabling subscriber&#39;s adaptive subscriptions to a publis=
her&#39;s event</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 streams at various different period intervals with which =
to report</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 updates.=C2=A0 Applying these elements allows both subscriber an=
d</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 publisher to automatically adjust the volume of telemetry traffic</span=
></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sent =
from publisher to the receivers.</span></font></div><font color=3D"#000000"=
><span><br></span></font><br><font color=3D"#000000"><span>In particular, p=
lease discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the following questions=
:</span></font></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1) is the problem important for the NET=
CONF WG to solve?<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the=
 work?<br><br><br>PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rath=
er an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption pol=
l.<br><br>NETCONF Chairs<br></div></div></div>_____________________________=
__________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000c7b2ca05ac8b1daa--


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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:40:10 -0700
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To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications
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Hi,

I am trying to understand the problem statement in this draft.
It seems to be that RFC 8639 does not provide enough configuration
capability
to specify how notifications from different subscriptions should be bundled
together into a single message.  There is no discussion of why bundling
notifications needs to be standardized, or what benefits it provides over
the current RFC 5277 notification message definition.

This approach seems to add a lot of complexity without adding much benefit.

Andy


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:19 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

>
> NETCONF WG,
>
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
> input on the following draft:
>
>    Title: Bulk Subscription to YANG Event Notification
>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/
> draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications
>    Abstract:
>
>       This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanism that
>       allows subscriber applications to bulk subscribe to publishers' event
>       streams based on bundle group information such as bundle size and
>       bundle latency.  This allows the publishers to report multiple
>       notifications in a single bundling message.
>
>
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
> following questions:
>
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
> gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>
> NETCONF Chairs
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>

--000000000000ffa83a05ac8b1f00
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to understand the probl=
em statement in this draft.</div><div>It seems to be that RFC 8639 does not=
 provide enough configuration capability</div><div>to specify how notificat=
ions from different subscriptions should be bundled</div><div>together into=
 a single message.=C2=A0 There is no discussion of why bundling</div><div>n=
otifications needs to be standardized, or what benefits it provides over</d=
iv><div>the current RFC 5277 notification message definition.</div><div><br=
></div><div>This approach seems to add a lot of complexity without adding m=
uch benefit.</div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug =
5, 2020 at 3:19 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net=
" target=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br></div><div><span styl=
e=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br=
 style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Per the previo=
us email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the fo=
llowing draft:</span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div><font c=
olor=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Title:=C2=A0<span>Bulk Subscription to YANG E=
vent Notification</span></font><div><font color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Li=
nk: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" target=3D"_blank">https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/</a><span>draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications<=
/span></font><br><font color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract:</font><br><=
br><div><div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This d=
ocument defines a YANG data model and associated mechanism that</span></fon=
t></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 allows subs=
criber applications to bulk subscribe to publishers&#39; event</span></font=
></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 streams base=
d on bundle group information such as bundle size and</span></font></div><d=
iv><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 bundle latency.=C2=A0=
 This allows the publishers to report multiple</span></font></div><div><fon=
t color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 notifications in a single bu=
ndling message.</span></font></div><br></div></div><font color=3D"#000000">=
<br></font><font color=3D"#000000">In particular, please discuss adoption-s=
uitability as it regards to the following questions:</font></div><div style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?</div><div style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)"><br><br>PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but r=
ather an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption =
poll.<br><br>NETCONF Chairs</div></div></div></div>________________________=
_______________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:40:23 -0700
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To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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Hi,

I am trying to understand the problem addressed in this draft.
It appears to be a well-constrained enhancement to SZTP to provide
more data in the get-bootstrapping-info RPC.

It is not clear that NETCONF WG is the right place for this draft, but
given the co-authors involved I think it will get sufficient security area
review.

I am willing to review the draft (wrt/ RESTCONF related issues).
I may implement it in the future, but no plans now.


Andy





On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:19 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

>
> NETCONF WG,
>
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
> input on the following draft:
>
>    Title: Conveying a CSR in an SZTP Bootstrapping Request
>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
>    Abstract:
>
>       This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in
>       RFC 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request (CSR),
>       enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an identity
>       certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the
>       "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply.
>
>
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
> following questions:
>
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
> gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>
> NETCONF Chairs
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>

--000000000000d10b3605ac8b20db
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to understand the probl=
em addressed in this draft.</div><div>It appears to be a well-constrained e=
nhancement to SZTP to provide</div><div>more data in the get-bootstrapping-=
info RPC.</div><div><br></div><div>It is not clear that NETCONF WG is the r=
ight place for this draft, but</div><div>given the co-authors involved I th=
ink it will get sufficient security area review.</div><div><br></div><div>I=
 am willing to review the draft (wrt/ RESTCONF related issues).</div><div>I=
 may implement it in the future, but no plans now.</div><div><br></div><div=
><br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div=
><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_attr">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:19 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><b=
r></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:r=
gb(0,0,0)">Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like t=
o solicit input on the following draft:</span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0=
)"><br></div><div><font color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Title:=C2=A0<span>Co=
nveying a CSR in an=C2=A0</span></font><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">SZT=
P Bootstrapping Request</span><div><font color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Lin=
k: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" target=3D"_blank">https://tools=
.ietf.org/html/</a><span>draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr</span></font><br><f=
ont color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract:</font><br><br><div><font color=
=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This draft extends the &quot;get-bo=
otstrapping-data&quot; RPC defined in</span></font></div><div><font color=
=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC=C2=A0</span></font><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">8572=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">to =
include an optional certificate signing request (CSR),</span><div><font col=
or=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 enabling a bootstrapping device t=
o additionally obtain an identity</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#0=
00000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 8=
02.1AR) as part of the</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><spa=
n>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;onboarding information&quot; response provided=
 in the RPC-reply.</span></font></div><br></div><font color=3D"#000000"><br=
></font><font color=3D"#000000">In particular, please discuss adoption-suit=
ability as it regards to the following questions:</font></div><div style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2=
) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(=
0,0,0)"><br><br>PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather=
 an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.=
<br><br>NETCONF Chairs</div></div></div></div>_____________________________=
__________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Hi Andy,

> On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I am trying to understand the NETCONF WG plan for UDP transport of =
notifications.
>=20
> The WG was developing a UDP draft already I think, and it was dropped.
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel-05 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel-05>

In IETF 103, there was extensive discussion on =
draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel, with questions raised about the =
scope of the draft. In IETF 105 and 106, our guidance (see meeting =
minutes) was to repurpose the draft for a UDP notification channel, =
which the WG would then ultimately adopt. This draft satisfies that =
request. To clarify this further, the datatracker marks the new draft as =
a replacement for the draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel.

Mahesh & Kent (as co-chair)

>=20
> Since the WG dropped this problem and work item already, why should it =
reverse that decision
> and start over with a new solution?
>=20
>=20
> Andy
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen..net =
<mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net>> wrote:
> NETCONF WG,
>=20
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:
>=20
>    Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions
>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif>
>    Abstract:
>=20
>       This document describes an UDP-based notification mechanism to
>       collect data from networking devices.  A shim header is proposed =
to
>       facilitate the streaming of data directly from line cards to a
>       collector.  The objective is to rely on a lightweight approach =
to
>       allow for higher frequency and better transit performance =
compared to
>       already established notification mechanisms.
>=20
>=20
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to =
the following questions:
>=20
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>=20
>=20
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>=20
> NETCONF Chairs
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Andy,<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Andy Bierman =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy@yumaworks.com" =
class=3D"">andy@yumaworks.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">Hi,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I am =
trying to understand the NETCONF WG plan for UDP transport of =
notifications.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">The WG was developing a UDP draft already I think, and it was =
dropped.</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel-05"=
 =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel-=
05</a><br class=3D""></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>In IETF 103, there was extensive discussion on =
draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel, with questions raised about the =
scope of the draft. In IETF 105 and 106, our guidance (see meeting =
minutes) was to repurpose the draft for a UDP notification channel, =
which the WG would then ultimately adopt. This draft satisfies that =
request. To clarify this further, the datatracker marks the new draft as =
a replacement for the draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Mahesh &amp; Kent (as co-chair)</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Since the WG dropped this problem and work item already, why =
should it reverse that decision</div><div class=3D"">and start over with =
a new solution?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Andy</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug =
5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">kent+ietf@watsen..net</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">NETCONF WG,<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions<br =
class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif</a><b=
r class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document describes an UDP-based notification =
mechanism to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; collect data from networking devices.&nbsp; A shim =
header is proposed to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; facilitate the streaming of data directly from line =
cards to a<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; collector.&nbsp; The objective is to rely on a =
lightweight approach to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; allow for higher frequency and better transit =
performance compared to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; already established notification mechanisms.<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the =
following questions:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to =
solve?<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
NETCONF Chairs<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
netconf mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">netconf@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br =
class=3D"">
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">netconf =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">netconf@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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Hi Andy,

> On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I am trying to understand the problem addressed in this draft.
> It appears to be a well-constrained enhancement to SZTP to provide
> more data in the get-bootstrapping-info RPC.
>=20
> It is not clear that NETCONF WG is the right place for this draft, but
> given the co-authors involved I think it will get sufficient security =
area review.

The charter for NETCONF WG includes ZTP, and this comes as a natural =
extension of that item. Every WG and draft has to address security =
considerations, which this draft tries to do, and the co-authors, who =
are security experts, have agreed to review the draft. Therefore, I feel =
that NETCONF WG would be a natural place for this draft to progress.

>=20
> I am willing to review the draft (wrt/ RESTCONF related issues).
> I may implement it in the future, but no plans now.
>=20
>=20
> Andy
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:19 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net =
<mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net>> wrote:
>=20
> NETCONF WG,
>=20
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:
>=20
>    Title: Conveying a CSR in an SZTP Bootstrapping Request
>    Link: https://tools..ietf.org/html/ =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/>draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
>    Abstract:
>=20
>       This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in
>       RFC 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request =
(CSR),
>       enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an =
identity
>       certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the
>       "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply.
>=20
>=20
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to =
the following questions:
>=20
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>=20
>=20
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt =
to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>=20
> NETCONF Chairs
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com




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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Andy,<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Andy Bierman =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy@yumaworks.com" =
class=3D"">andy@yumaworks.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">Hi,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I am =
trying to understand the problem addressed in this draft.</div><div =
class=3D"">It appears to be a well-constrained enhancement to SZTP to =
provide</div><div class=3D"">more data in the get-bootstrapping-info =
RPC.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It is not =
clear that NETCONF WG is the right place for this draft, but</div><div =
class=3D"">given the co-authors involved I think it will get sufficient =
security area review.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>The charter for NETCONF WG includes ZTP, and this comes =
as a natural extension of that item. Every WG and draft has to address =
security considerations, which this draft tries to do, and the =
co-authors, who are security experts, have agreed to review the draft. =
Therefore, I feel that NETCONF WG would be a natural place for this =
draft to progress.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I am willing to review the draft (wrt/ =
RESTCONF related issues).</div><div class=3D"">I may implement it in the =
future, but no plans now.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Andy</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:19 PM Kent =
Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"" class=3D"">NETCONF =
WG,</span><br style=3D"" class=3D""><br style=3D"" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"" class=3D"">Per the previous email sent moments ago, the =
chairs would like to solicit input on the following draft:</span><div =
style=3D"" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;<span class=3D"">Conveying a CSR in =
an&nbsp;</span></font><span style=3D"" class=3D"">SZTP Bootstrapping =
Request</span><div class=3D""><font class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://tools..ietf.org/html/</a><span =
class=3D"">draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr</span></font><br =
class=3D""><font class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</font><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This draft extends the =
"get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font class=3D""><span class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
RFC&nbsp;</span></font><span style=3D"" class=3D"">8572&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"" class=3D"">to include an optional certificate signing request =
(CSR),</span><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><span class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an =
identity</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE =
802.1AR) as part of the</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "onboarding =
information" response provided in the RPC-reply.</span></font></div><br =
class=3D""></div><font class=3D""><br class=3D""></font><font =
class=3D"">In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it =
regards to the following questions:</font></div><div style=3D"" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the =
work?</div><div style=3D"" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: =
this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to =
gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">NETCONF =
Chairs</div></div></div></div>____________________________________________=
___<br class=3D"">
netconf mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">netconf@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br =
class=3D"">
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">netconf =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">netconf@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Mahesh Jethanandani</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" =
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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 09:42:45 +0800
From: "duzongpeng@foxmail.com" <duzongpeng@foxmail.com>
To: "Andy Bierman" <andy@yumaworks.com>, "Kent Watsen" <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DUTF-8"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }div.FoxDiv20200811093811806107 { =
}body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI'; color: rgb(0=
, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }</style></head><body>=0A<div><span></span>Hi, =
Andy</div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); backgrou=
nd-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp; &nbsp; I am interested in the mechinis=
m, too.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); backgro=
und-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp; &nbsp; The mechenism can be seen as a=
 more intelligent negociation between the server and the client.</span></d=
iv><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0=
, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); backgroun=
d-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">Best Regards</span></div><div><span style=3D"c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">Zongpeng Du</span=
></div>=0A<div><br></div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D=
"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A<div><span><div style=3D"margin: 10=
px;"><div><a href=3D"mailto:duzongpeng@foxmail.com" style=3D"font-family: =
verdana; font-size: 13.3333px; background-color: transparent;">duzongpeng@=
foxmail.com</a><span style=3D"font-family: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp=
;</span><span style=3D"background-color: transparent; font-size: 13.3333px=
; line-height: 20px;"><font face=3D"verdana">duzongpeng@chinamobile.com</f=
ont></span></div><font face=3D"verdana"><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333p=
x; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.=
3333px;"></span></font></div></span></div>=0A<blockquote style=3D"margin-T=
op: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5em; margin-Right: inherit"><d=
iv>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;pa=
dding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT: 8=
px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefef;=
 PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>From:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"=
mailto:andy@yumaworks.com">Andy Bierman</a></div><div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;20=
20-08-11&nbsp;03:39</div><div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:kent+ietf@=
watsen.net">Kent Watsen</a></div><div><b>CC:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:ne=
tconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;Re: [n=
etconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription<=
/div></div></div><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv20200811093811806107"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to understand the problem stat=
ement in this draft.</div><div>It appears to propose a complex self-monito=
ring system so that YANG Push</div><div>subscriptions can change their par=
ameters on the fly to adapt to</div><div>changing network conditions. E.g.=
 lower the 'period' parameter when</div><div>conditions are right, to prod=
uce more push-update records than normal.</div><div><br></div><div>The pro=
blem is somewhat interesting.</div><div>The filtering mechanisms in YANG P=
ush are really awful and there is a need</div><div>to improve both filter =
and trigger mechanisms.&nbsp; I don't think this draft offers</div><div>a =
reasonable solution, but I encourage further experimentation.</div><div>Pr=
ove it works in real products then maybe it will be ready for standardizat=
ion.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></di=
v><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On =
Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:18 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@=
watsen.net" target=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0)">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Per the previous em=
ail sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the follow=
ing draft:</span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div><font colo=
r=3D"#000000"><span>&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;Adaptive Subscription to YANG=
 Notification</span></font><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>&nbsp; &nbsp=
;Link: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-=
subscription" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-net=
conf-adaptive-subscription</a></span></font><br><font color=3D"#000000"><s=
pan>&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</span></font><br><br><div><font color=3D"#00000=
0"><span>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document defines a YANG data model and =
associated mechanism</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span=
>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; enabling subscriber's adaptive subscriptions to a pu=
blisher's event</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>&nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; streams at various different period intervals with which =
to report</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>&nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; updates.&nbsp; Applying these elements allows both subscriber a=
nd</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; publisher to automatically adjust the volume of telemetry traffic</spa=
n></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; sen=
t from publisher to the receivers.</span></font></div><font color=3D"#0000=
00"><span><br></span></font><br><font color=3D"#000000"><span>In particula=
r, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the following ques=
tions:</span></font></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for th=
e NETCONF WG to solve?<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis f=
or the work?<br><br><br>PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, b=
ut rather an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential future adop=
tion poll.<br><br>NETCONF Chairs<br></div></div></div>____________________=
___________________________<br>=0Anetconf mailing list<br>=0A<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><br>=0A<a hre=
f=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>=0A</b=
lockquote></div>=0A</div></div></blockquote>=0A</body></html>
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 19:04:25 -0700
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To: "duzongpeng@foxmail.com" <duzongpeng@foxmail.com>
Cc: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription
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On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 6:40 PM duzongpeng@foxmail.com <
duzongpeng@foxmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, Andy
>
>     I am interested in the mechinism, too.
>     The mechenism can be seen as a more intelligent negociation between
> the server and the client.
>
>
The draft describes some use-cases for an "ECA Framework".
The challenge is how to move client programming logic to the server in a
workable solution.
Simplistic solutions that allow 1 counter to be checked, etc. are not good
enough.
Robust solutions that are simple enough to be useful are hard to design and
standardize.

Obviously the client can poll the server and issue a <modify-subscription>
or <edit-config> to change the push parameters, then change the parameters
back
again when the special mode is no longer needed. If the network is up, and
not too busy,
and the latency does not cause events to be missed.

IMO, only a generalized ECA solution makes business sense, because it is
too complex
to duplicate over and over in ad-hoc ways for each point solution.


Best Regards
> Zongpeng Du
>
>

Andy


> ------------------------------
> duzongpeng@foxmail.com & duzongpeng@chinamobile.com
>
>
> *From:* Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
> *Date:* 2020-08-11 03:39
> *To:* Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
> *CC:* netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to understand the problem statement in this draft.
> It appears to propose a complex self-monitoring system so that YANG Push
> subscriptions can change their parameters on the fly to adapt to
> changing network conditions. E.g. lower the 'period' parameter when
> conditions are right, to produce more push-update records than normal.
>
> The problem is somewhat interesting.
> The filtering mechanisms in YANG Push are really awful and there is a need
> to improve both filter and trigger mechanisms.  I don't think this draft
> offers
> a reasonable solution, but I encourage further experimentation.
> Prove it works in real products then maybe it will be ready for
> standardization.
>
>
> Andy
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:18 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
>
>> NETCONF WG,
>>
>> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
>> input on the following draft:
>>
>>    Title: Adaptive Subscription to YANG Notification
>>    Link:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription
>>    Abstract:
>>
>>       This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanism
>>       enabling subscriber's adaptive subscriptions to a publisher's event
>>       streams at various different period intervals with which to report
>>       updates.  Applying these elements allows both subscriber and
>>       publisher to automatically adjust the volume of telemetry traffic
>>       sent from publisher to the receivers.
>>
>>
>> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
>> following questions:
>>
>>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>>
>>
>> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
>> gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>>
>> NETCONF Chairs
>> _______________________________________________
>> netconf mailing list
>> netconf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>>
>

--0000000000003e3b2f05ac907eeb
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 6:40 PM <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:duzongpeng@foxmail.com">duzongpeng@foxmail.com</a> &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:duzongpeng@foxmail.com">duzongpeng@foxmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<div><span></span>Hi, Andy</div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rg=
b(0,0,0);background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I am interested in t=
he mechinism, too.=C2=A0</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);b=
ackground-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The mechenism can be seen as a=
 more intelligent negociation between the server and the client.</span></di=
v><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)"><br>=
</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The draft describes som=
e use-cases for an &quot;ECA Framework&quot;.</div><div>The challenge is ho=
w to move client programming logic to the server in a workable solution.</d=
iv><div>Simplistic solutions that allow 1 counter to be checked, etc. are n=
ot good enough.</div><div>Robust solutions that are simple enough to be use=
ful are hard to design and standardize.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Obvi=
ously the client can poll the server and issue a &lt;modify-subscription&gt=
;</div><div>or &lt;edit-config&gt; to change the push parameters, then chan=
ge the parameters back</div><div>again when the special mode is no longer n=
eeded. If the network is up, and not too busy,</div><div>and the latency do=
es not cause events to be missed.=C2=A0</div><div></div><div><br></div><div=
>IMO, only a generalized ECA solution makes business sense, because it is t=
oo complex</div><div>to duplicate over and over in ad-hoc ways for each poi=
nt solution.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);background=
-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)"></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);bac=
kground-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)">Best Regards</span></div><div><span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)">Zongpeng Du</span></div>
<div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</=
div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
><div></div><hr style=3D"width:210px;height:1px" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"=
1" align=3D"left">
<div><span><div style=3D"margin:10px"><div><a href=3D"mailto:duzongpeng@fox=
mail.com" style=3D"font-family:verdana;font-size:13.3333px;background-color=
:transparent" target=3D"_blank">duzongpeng@foxmail.com</a><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:verdana;font-size:13.3333px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb=
a(0,0,0,0)">=C2=A0&amp;=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"background-color:transpa=
rent;font-size:13.3333px;line-height:20px"><font face=3D"verdana"><a href=
=3D"mailto:duzongpeng@chinamobile.com" target=3D"_blank">duzongpeng@chinamo=
bile.com</a></font></span></div><font face=3D"verdana"><span style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px"></span></fo=
nt></div></span></div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:inherit;m=
argin-right:0.5em"><div>=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-=
bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:=
3pt 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"padding:8px;font-size:12px;font-family:tahoma;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);background:rgb(239,239,239)"><div><b>From:</b>=C2=A0<a href=
=3D"mailto:andy@yumaworks.com" target=3D"_blank">Andy Bierman</a></div><div=
><b>Date:</b>=C2=A02020-08-11=C2=A003:39</div><div><b>To:</b>=C2=A0<a href=
=3D"mailto:kent+ietf@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank">Kent Watsen</a></div><di=
v><b>CC:</b>=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">net=
conf@ietf.org</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b>=C2=A0Re: [netconf] Adoption-sui=
tability for draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription</div></div></div><div=
><div class=3D"gmail-m_3217484035423308689FoxDiv20200811093811806107"><div =
dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to understand the problem st=
atement in this draft.</div><div>It appears to propose a complex self-monit=
oring system so that YANG Push</div><div>subscriptions can change their par=
ameters on the fly to adapt to</div><div>changing network conditions. E.g. =
lower the &#39;period&#39; parameter when</div><div>conditions are right, t=
o produce more push-update records than normal.</div><div><br></div><div>Th=
e problem is somewhat interesting.</div><div>The filtering mechanisms in YA=
NG Push are really awful and there is a need</div><div>to improve both filt=
er and trigger mechanisms.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t think this draft offers</div><=
div>a reasonable solution, but I encourage further experimentation.</div><d=
iv>Prove it works in real products then maybe it will be ready for standard=
ization.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div><=
/div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">O=
n Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:18 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf=
@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Per the previous email =
sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the following d=
raft:</span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div><font color=3D"#=
000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Title:=C2=A0Adaptive Subscription to YANG Notifi=
cation</span></font><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link: <=
a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscript=
ion" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-adapt=
ive-subscription</a></span></font><br><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0Abstract:</span></font><br><br><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document defines a YANG data model and associated me=
chanism</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 enabling subscriber&#39;s adaptive subscriptions to a publisher&#39=
;s event</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 streams at various different period intervals with which to repo=
rt</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 updates.=C2=A0 Applying these elements allows both subscriber and</span=
></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 publi=
sher to automatically adjust the volume of telemetry traffic</span></font><=
/div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sent from publ=
isher to the receivers.</span></font></div><font color=3D"#000000"><span><b=
r></span></font><br><font color=3D"#000000"><span>In particular, please dis=
cuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the following questions:</span><=
/font></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style=3D"color:r=
gb(0,0,0)">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to =
solve?<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<br><=
br><br>PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attem=
pt to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br><br>N=
ETCONF Chairs<br></div></div></div>________________________________________=
_______<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div></blockquote>
</div></blockquote></div></div>

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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities
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Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications
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Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription
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From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
CC: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Hi Andy,

Thanks Mahesh for the clarification from the chairs perspective.

And here is my clarification from the co-author perspective.
We implemented the previous solution, and contributed it to IETF.
But we dropped the solution because no customer has interest about this at =
that time. I do not want to waste the WG time.

We restart the draft because now several operators and customers have real =
requirements and use cases, and would like to work on this solution.
We reconstructed the solution with inputs, and would like to implement it t=
o align with the changes.
We would also like to share and contribute to the community.

Cheers,
Tianran

From: netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh Jethana=
ndani
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 5:47 AM
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Cc: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-not=
if

Hi Andy,


On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com<mailto:andy@=
yumaworks.com>> wrote:

Hi,

I am trying to understand the NETCONF WG plan for UDP transport of notifica=
tions.

The WG was developing a UDP draft already I think, and it was dropped.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel-05

In IETF 103, there was extensive discussion on draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-c=
hannel, with questions raised about the scope of the draft. In IETF 105 and=
 106, our guidance (see meeting minutes) was to repurpose the draft for a U=
DP notification channel, which the WG would then ultimately adopt. This dra=
ft satisfies that request. To clarify this further, the datatracker marks t=
he new draft as a replacement for the draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel.

Mahesh & Kent (as co-chair)



Since the WG dropped this problem and work item already, why should it reve=
rse that decision
and start over with a new solution?


Andy


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen..net<mailto:ke=
nt%2Bietf@watsen.net>> wrote:
NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit i=
nput on the following draft:

   Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions
   Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
   Abstract:

      This document describes an UDP-based notification mechanism to
      collect data from networking devices.  A shim header is proposed to
      facilitate the streaming of data directly from line cards to a
      collector.  The objective is to rely on a lightweight approach to
      allow for higher frequency and better transit performance compared to
      already established notification mechanisms.


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the fol=
lowing questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to g=
auge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org<mailto:netconf@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org<mailto:netconf@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Andy,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks Mahesh for the clarification f=
rom the chairs perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And here is my clarification from the=
 co-author perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We implemented the previous solution,=
 and contributed it to IETF.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">But we dropped the solution because n=
o customer has interest about this at that time. I do not want to waste the=
 WG time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We restart the draft because now seve=
ral operators and customers have real requirements and use cases, and would=
 like to work on this solution. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We reconstructed the solution with in=
puts, and would like to implement it to align with the changes.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We would also like to share and contr=
ibute to the community.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Tianran<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> netconf [mailto:netconf-bounce=
s@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mahesh Jethanandani<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2020 5:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Andy Bierman &lt;andy@yumaworks.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> netconf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Andy,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Andy Bierman &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:andy@yumaworks.com">andy@yumaworks.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am trying to understand the NETCONF WG plan for UD=
P transport of notifications.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WG was developing a UDP draft already I think, a=
nd it was dropped.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ne=
tconf-udp-pub-channel-05">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ud=
p-pub-channel-05</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In IETF 103, there was extensive discussion on draft=
-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel, with questions raised about the scope of the=
 draft. In IETF 105 and 106, our guidance (see meeting minutes) was to repu=
rpose the draft for a UDP notification
 channel, which the WG would then ultimately adopt. This draft satisfies th=
at request. To clarify this further, the datatracker marks the new draft as=
 a replacement for the draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mahesh &amp; Kent (as co-chair)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since the WG dropped this problem and work item alre=
ady, why should it reverse that decision<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and start over with a new solution?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank">kent&#43;ietf@watsen=
..net</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NETCONF WG,<br>
<br>
Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit i=
nput on the following draft:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netco=
nf-udp-notif" target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document describes an UDP-based notification mech=
anism to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; collect data from networking devices.&nbsp; A shim hea=
der is proposed to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; facilitate the streaming of data directly from line ca=
rds to a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; collector.&nbsp; The objective is to rely on a lightwe=
ight approach to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; allow for higher frequency and better transit performa=
nce compared to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; already established notification mechanisms.<br>
<br>
<br>
In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the fol=
lowing questions:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<br>
<br>
<br>
PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to g=
auge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br>
<br>
NETCONF Chairs<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf">https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif
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From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 21:10:32 -0700
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Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
References: <01000173c0b07b33-ad0b793a-7afc-4b39-95f8-2f50574d57bb-000000@us-east-1.amazonses.com> <CABCOCHTP5boMJpCvhjd=Ur9sTr-+Ea0gSzOJnY_YToHGdurhsA@mail.gmail.com> <e7ccc6495dd34c4fae15a1697ccd1af5@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif
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Hi Tianran,

> On Aug 10, 2020, at 8:28 PM, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Current solution depends on ietf-netconf-notification-messages. I just =
found it=E2=80=99s expired!

In IETF 108, the chairs mentioned that this draft is on hold till =
https-notif draft goes into publication, at which time it will also go =
for publication.

Thanks.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com




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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Tianran,<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Aug 10, 2020, at 8:28 PM, Tianran Zhou =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" =
class=3D"">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(31, 73, 125); color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666666984558105px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; display: inline =
!important; float: none;" class=3D"">Current solution depends on =
ietf-netconf-notification-messages. I just found it=E2=80=99s =
expired!</span></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div>In IETF 108, =
the chairs mentioned that this draft is on hold till https-notif draft =
goes into publication, at which time it will also go for =
publication.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Thanks.</div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Mahesh Jethanandani</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">

</div>
<br class=3D""></body></html>=

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From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
CC: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif
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From nobody Mon Aug 10 23:22:35 2020
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To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
References: <01000173c0b45676-dc00a30e-1234-45d2-ba20-131c9467110d-000000@us-east-1.amazonses.com>
From: Alexander L Clemm <ludwig@clemm.org>
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Subject: [netconf] Adoption-suitable vs adoption (Re: Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications)
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Hi,

I am not quite sure about the purpose of these adoption-suitability
polls (not just for this but for the various other drafts) and was
wondering about the rationale for it.  It seems to me to be redundant
with anactual adoption call - do we foresee situations where a draft is
adoption-suitable but would not actually be adopted?  If a draft is
deemed to not yet be adoption-suitable, is there any difference to the
draft not yet being adopted?  What is expected to happen in the interim
state or time period between when a draft is deemed "adoption-suitable"
until it actually gets adopted? 

Thanks

--- Alex

On 8/5/2020 3:18 PM, Kent Watsen wrote:
>
> NETCONF WG,
>
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to
> solicit input on the following draft:
>
>    Title: Bulk Subscription to YANG Event Notification
>    Link:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications
>    Abstract:
>
>       This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanism
> that
>       allows subscriber applications to bulk subscribe to publishers'
> event
>       streams based on bundle group information such as bundle size and
>       bundle latency.  This allows the publishers to report multiple
>       notifications in a single bundling message.
>
>
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to
> the following questions:
>
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt
> to gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>
> NETCONF Chairs
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

--------------A18023ECD6EAEF1970294689
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
      charset=windows-1252">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Hi,</p>
    <p>I am not quite sure about the purpose of these
      adoption-suitability polls (not just for this but for the various
      other drafts) and was wondering about the rationale for it.  It
      seems to me to be redundant with anactual adoption call - do we
      foresee situations where a draft is adoption-suitable but would
      not actually be adopted?  If a draft is deemed to not yet be
      adoption-suitable, is there any difference to the draft not yet
      being adopted?  What is expected to happen in the interim state or
      time period between when a draft is deemed "adoption-suitable"
      until it actually gets adopted?  <br>
    </p>
    <p>Thanks<br>
    </p>
    <p>--- Alex<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/5/2020 3:18 PM, Kent Watsen wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:01000173c0b45676-dc00a30e-1234-45d2-ba20-131c9467110d-000000@us-east-1.amazonses.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color:
          rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">NETCONF WG,</span><br
          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
          class="">
        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
          class="">
        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
          class="">Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs
          would like to solicit input on the following draft:</span>
        <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
          class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class=""><font class="" color="#000000">   Title: <span
              style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">Bulk
              Subscription to YANG Event Notification</span></font>
          <div class=""><font class="" color="#000000">   Link: <a
                href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a><span
                style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications</span></font><br
              class="">
            <font class="" color="#000000">   Abstract:</font><br
              class="">
            <br class="">
            <div class="">
              <div class="">
                <div class=""><font class="" color="#000000"><span
                      style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">     
                      This document defines a YANG data model and
                      associated mechanism that</span></font></div>
                <div class=""><font class="" color="#000000"><span
                      style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">     
                      allows subscriber applications to bulk subscribe
                      to publishers' event</span></font></div>
                <div class=""><font class="" color="#000000"><span
                      style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">     
                      streams based on bundle group information such as
                      bundle size and</span></font></div>
                <div class=""><font class="" color="#000000"><span
                      style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">     
                      bundle latency.  This allows the publishers to
                      report multiple</span></font></div>
                <div class=""><font class="" color="#000000"><span
                      style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">     
                      notifications in a single bundling message.</span></font></div>
                <br class="">
              </div>
            </div>
            <font class="" color="#000000"><br class="">
            </font><font class="" color="#000000">In particular, please
              discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
              following questions:</font></div>
          <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
            class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
            class="">    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG
            to solve?<br class="">
                2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?</div>
          <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
            class=""><br class="">
            <br class="">
            PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather
            an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential future
            adoption poll.<br class="">
            <br class="">
            NETCONF Chairs</div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:netconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------A18023ECD6EAEF1970294689--


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To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1) is the problem impo=
rtant for the NETCONF WG to solve?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yes, I think the exten=
ded per-node notification capability in this draft, including timer-based-t=
rigger and threshold-based trigger,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">could complement RFC86=
41 existing generic trigger mechanism.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And I believe that the=
 NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, since these capability ext=
ends from notification capability model
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">defined in draft-ietf-=
netconf-notification-capabilities, which provides a good basis for server c=
apabilities advertisement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">2) is the draft a suit=
able basis for the work?<br style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: normal;font-va=
riant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;white-space:pre-wrap;widows: 2;-webkit-text-s=
troke-width: 0px;text-decoration-style: initial;text-decoration-color: init=
ial;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I have reviewed the dr=
aft and it provides a good basis. If this work gets adopted, I am happy to =
review any version of this work
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">and contribute to any =
discussion and help move this work forward.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Bo<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;=CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA&quot;,sans-serif">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D=
"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;=CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA&quot;,sans-serif"> netconf [mailt=
o:netconf-bounces@ietf.org]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=
=C5=BA=DA&quot;,sans-serif">=B4=FA=B1=ED </span>
</b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=CE=A2=
=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA&quot;,sans-serif">Kent Watsen<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=
=C5=BA=DA&quot;,sans-serif">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:<=
/span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;=CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA&quot;,sans-serif"> 2020</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA&quot;,sans-=
serif">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-US">8</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">6</spa=
n>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 6:18<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> netconf@ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabili=
ties<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">NETCONF W=
G,<br>
<br>
Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit i=
nput on the following draft:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &n=
bsp;Title:&nbsp;Telemetry Data Export capability</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link:
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/">https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/</a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</span><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; This document proposes a YANG module for telemetry data export<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; capability which augments system Capabilities model and provide=
s</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; additional telemetry data export attributes associated with sys=
tem</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; capability for transport dependent capability negotiation.</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><br>
In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the fol=
lowing questions:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &n=
bsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><br>
<br>
PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to g=
auge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br>
<br>
NETCONF Chairs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:10:17 -0700
Message-ID: <CABCOCHTumq+yZzasYb5Z-obC7d92UZ9UmOLexaS6=NdOyd0iEg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
Cc: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/CscF7GBua2NO4ygt0A078ZiCro8>
Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
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On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 7:09 PM Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote:

> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =
*=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 *Andy Bierman
> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2020=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8811=E6=97=
=A5 3:39
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* netconf@ietf.org
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I am trying to understand the problem this draft is attempting to solve.
>
> The premise seems to be that the error handling and "hints" mechanism
>
> in RFC 8639 and RFC 8641 do not work
>
> [Qin]: The data export capabilities is not designed to replace error
> handling and is positioned as capability negotiation and used before
> netconf connection to be setup,  they are complementary,
>
> error handling will be the last resort
>
> When dynamic subscription request is declined or rejected. Error handling
> is only applicable to dynamic subscription
>
> based on section 3.2 of RFC8641.
>
>
>
> Our argument is why not prevent the problem to happen in the first place
> instead of waiting for the server making mistake and remedy it.
>
> One of principle set by RFC8641 is:
>
> minimize the number of subscription iterations between subscriber and
> publisher, discourage Random guessing of different parameters by a
> subscriber.
>
>
>
> The solution being provided is generic, targeted to address this
> challenge, not only applicable to dynamic subscription, but also configur=
ed
> subscription.
>
>

IMO the solution approach does not scale well.
There is very little value for too much complexity.

A set of capabilities for every possible data node that can be used with
YANG Push
will be very large. Any yet, that is still mostly useless, since it is very
likely that
the particular instances of the data node affect the push capabilities.
The filter used in the subscription will have a huge impact on the
capabilities.

Take the most obvious entry -- for the "interface" list.  It is very likely
that the
type of interface, or firmware revision of the line card, or any of a 1000
proprietary
details could change the push parameters supported for that interface.

There are also very vendor-specific capabilities that impose an
implementation design.
This is way out of scope. Example below: Does this mean all vendors need to
change their server code
so it has a set limit per update, based on some new concept you made up
called sensor groups??


     leaf max-nodes-per-sensor-group {
        type uint32 {
          range "1..max";
        }
        description
          "Maximum number of selected data nodes that can be sent
           per sensor group.";
      }
      leaf max-sensor-group-per-update {
        type uint32 {
          range "1..max";
        }
        description
          "Maximum number of sensor groups that can be sent
           in an update.";
      }



Andy



>
> and the client needs to retrieve
>
> extensive monitoring info to determine how to setup notifications on the
> server.
>
>
>
> In theory this data could be used to prevent an <rpc-error> to be returne=
d
>
> for <establish_subscription> or <edit-config>
>
>
>
>
>
> IMO the current approach is much better than this proposed approach.
>
> The server can provide the hints based on the exact request from the
> client.
>
> [Qin]: It may be late, still require multiple subscription iterations
> between subscriber and publisher. But data export has no intention to
> replace it. Error handling have its value in many different cases.
>
> The static "per-node" monitoring data can be quite large, and yet not
> provide
>
> the correct answer for a specific combination of subscription parameters.=
.
>
>
>
> [Qin]: It is server capability exposure, check early implantation time
> information of the capability what the server support (e.g., GRPC
> transport, TCP support, UDP transport support),
>
> not targeted to keep track of dynamic change data.
>
> These capabilities seldom change. In addition, to allow the client compos=
e
> various different subscription policy (e.g., adaptive subscription), we
> require the server to indicate whether specific data object supports
>
> Thresholds handling.
>
> This is missing pieces to support event based telemetry solution.
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:17 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net
> <kent%2Bietf@watsen..net>> wrote:
>
>
>
> NETCONF WG,
>
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
> input on the following draft:
>
>
>
>    Title: Telemetry Data Export capability
>
>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/
> draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
>    Abstract:
>
>       This document proposes a YANG module for telemetry data export
>
>       capability which augments system Capabilities model and provides
>
>       additional telemetry data export attributes associated with system
>
>       capability for transport dependent capability negotiation.
>
>
>
>
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
> following questions:
>
>
>
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
>
> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
> gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>
> NETCONF Chairs
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 7:09 PM Qin W=
u &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">bill.wu@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_3402617765409017235WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=E5=BE=
=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91,sans-serif">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
11pt;font-family:=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91,sans-serif"> netconf =
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netco=
nf-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=
=9B=85=E9=BB=91,sans-serif">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 </span>
</b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=E5=BE=AE=E8=
=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91,sans-serif">Andy Bierman<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=
=9B=85=E9=BB=91,sans-serif">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span lang=
=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;=
font-family:=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91,sans-serif"> 2020</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=
=91,sans-serif">=E5=B9=B4<span lang=3D"EN-US">8</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=
=3D"EN-US">11</span>=E6=97=A5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 3:39<br>
</span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"> Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net" =
target=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.=
org</a><br>
</span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-expor=
t-capabilities<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I am trying to understand the p=
roblem this draft is attempting to solve.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The premise seems to be that th=
e error handling and &quot;hints&quot; mechanism=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">in RFC 8639 and RFC 8641 do not=
 work <span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">
<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Qin]: The data export capa=
bilities is not designed to replace error handling and is positioned as cap=
ability negotiation and used before netconf
 connection to be setup, =C2=A0they are complementary, <u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">error handling will be the =
last resort<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">When dynamic subscription r=
equest is declined or rejected. Error handling is only applicable to dynami=
c subscription<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">based on section 3.2 of RFC=
8641.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Our argument is why not pre=
vent the problem to happen in the first place instead of waiting for the se=
rver making mistake and remedy it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">One of principle set by RFC=
8641 is:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">minimize the number of subs=
cription iterations between subscriber and publisher, discourage Random gue=
ssing of different parameters by a subscriber.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The solution being provided=
 is generic, targeted to address this challenge, not only applicable to dyn=
amic subscription, but also configured subscription.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u></span></p></div></d=
iv></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>IMO the solu=
tion approach does not scale well.</div><div>There is very little value for=
 too much complexity.</div><div><br></div><div>A set of capabilities for ev=
ery possible data node that can be used with YANG Push</div><div>will be ve=
ry large. Any yet, that is still mostly useless, since it is very likely th=
at</div><div>the particular instances of the data node affect the push capa=
bilities.</div><div>The filter used in the subscription will have a huge im=
pact on the capabilities.</div><div><br></div><div>Take the most obvious en=
try -- for the &quot;interface&quot; list.=C2=A0 It is very likely that the=
</div><div>type of interface, or firmware revision of the line card, or any=
 of a 1000 proprietary</div><div>details could change the push parameters s=
upported for that interface.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>There are also very=
 vendor-specific capabilities that impose an implementation design.</div><d=
iv>This is way out of scope. Example below: Does this mean all vendors need=
 to change their server code</div><div>so it has a set limit per update, ba=
sed on some new concept you made up called sensor groups??</div><div><br></=
div><div><br></div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.=
3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"=
>     leaf max-nodes-per-sensor-group {
        type uint32 {
          range &quot;1..max&quot;;
        }
        description
          &quot;Maximum number of selected data nodes that can be sent
           per sensor group.&quot;;
      }
      leaf max-sensor-group-per-update {
        type uint32 {
          range &quot;1..max&quot;;
        }
        description
          &quot;Maximum number of sensor groups that can be sent
           in an update.&quot;;
      }</pre></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></=
div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div l=
ang=3D"ZH-CN"><div class=3D"gmail-m_3402617765409017235WordSection1"><div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0<u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">and the client needs to retriev=
e<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">extensive monitoring info to de=
termine how to setup notifications on the server.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In theory this data could be us=
ed to prevent an &lt;rpc-error&gt; to be returned<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">for &lt;establish_subscription&=
gt; or &lt;edit-config&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">IMO the current approach is muc=
h better than this proposed approach.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The server can provide the hint=
s based on the exact request from the client.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Qin]: It may be late, stil=
l require multiple subscription iterations between subscriber and publisher=
. But data export has no intention to replace
 it. Error handling have its value in many different cases.<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The static &quot;per-node&quot;=
 monitoring data can be quite large, and yet not provide<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">the correct answer for a specif=
ic combination of subscription parameters..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Qin]: It is server capabil=
ity exposure, check early implantation time information of the capability w=
hat the server support (e.g., GRPC transport,
 TCP support, UDP transport support), <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">not targeted to keep track =
of dynamic change data.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">These capabilities seldom c=
hange. In addition, to allow the client compose various different subscript=
ion policy (e.g., adaptive subscription), we
 require the server to indicate whether specific data object supports<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thresholds handling.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">This is missing pieces to s=
upport event based telemetry solution.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Andy<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:17 PM =
Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen..net" target=3D"_blank=
">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">NETCONF W=
G,<br>
<br>
Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit i=
nput on the following draft:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0Title:=C2=A0Telemetry Data Export capability</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link:
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ie=
tf.org/html/</a>draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><br>
<span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract:</span><u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document proposes a YANG module for telemetry data expor=
t</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 capability which augments system Capabilities model and provi=
des</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 additional telemetry data export attributes associated with s=
ystem</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 capability for transport dependent capability negotiation.</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><br>
In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the fol=
lowing questions:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><br>
<br>
PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to g=
auge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br>
<br>
NETCONF Chairs<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________=
________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000670a7705ac9dfc7b--


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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 11:45:42 +0800
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To: "Kent Watsen" <kent+ietf@watsen.net>,  "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Cc: duzongpeng <duzongpeng@chinamobile.com>
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	charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DISO-8859-1"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; fo=
nt-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI'; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }<=
/style></head><body>=0A<div><span></span><span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" u=
i';=3D"" font-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D=
"" background-color:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font=
-style:=3D"" normal;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D"">Hi&nbsp;WG,<br><br>W=
ith&nbsp;regard&nbsp;to&nbsp;the&nbsp;2&nbsp;questions:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;1)&nbsp;is&nbsp;the&nbsp;problem&nbsp;important&nbsp;for&nbsp=
;the&nbsp;NETCONF&nbsp;WG&nbsp;to&nbsp;solve?<br><br>I&nbsp;think&nbsp;the=
&nbsp;UDP&nbsp;transport&nbsp;for&nbsp;configured&nbsp;subscription&nbsp;i=
s&nbsp;valuable&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;NETCONF&nbsp;WG.&nbsp;It's&nbsp;use=
ful&nbsp;in&nbsp;at&nbsp;least&nbsp;two&nbsp;scenarios&nbsp;in&nbsp;carrie=
r&nbsp;network.<br>One&nbsp;is&nbsp;for&nbsp;core&nbsp;devices&nbsp;with&n=
bsp;large&nbsp;amount&nbsp;of&nbsp;data&nbsp;to&nbsp;export.&nbsp;The&nbsp=
;UDP&nbsp;transport&nbsp;together&nbsp;with&nbsp;distributed&nbsp;exportin=
g&nbsp;mechanism&nbsp;could&nbsp;relieve&nbsp;the&nbsp;device&nbsp;work&nb=
sp;load.<br>The&nbsp;second&nbsp;is&nbsp;when&nbsp;the&nbsp;collector&nbsp=
;want&nbsp;to&nbsp;collect&nbsp;data&nbsp;from&nbsp;large&nbsp;amount&nbsp=
;of&nbsp;devices,&nbsp;e.g.,&nbsp;the&nbsp;devices&nbsp;at&nbsp;the&nbsp;e=
dge.&nbsp;The&nbsp;proposed&nbsp;solution&nbsp;can&nbsp;make&nbsp;the&nbsp=
;collector's&nbsp;life&nbsp;easier.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2)&nbsp=
;is&nbsp;the&nbsp;draft&nbsp;a&nbsp;suitable&nbsp;basis&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&=
nbsp;work?<br><br>I've&nbsp;read&nbsp;document.&nbsp;I&nbsp;believe&nbsp;i=
t's&nbsp;a&nbsp;good&nbsp;basis&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;working&nbsp;group&=
nbsp;to&nbsp;continue.<br><br></span></div>=0A<div><br></div><hr style=3D"=
width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=
=0A<div><span><div style=3D"margin: 10px;"><div><a href=3D"mailto:duzongpe=
ng@foxmail.com" style=3D"font-family: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px; backg=
round-color: transparent;">duzongpeng@foxmail.com</a><span style=3D"font-f=
amily: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-colo=
r: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"background-co=
lor: transparent; font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: 20px;"><font face=3D"=
verdana">duzongpeng@chinamobile.com</font></span></div><font face=3D"verda=
na"><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-c=
olor: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;"></span></font></div></span>=
</div>=0A<blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-=
Left: 0.5em; margin-Right: inherit"><div>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"border:=
none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=
=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tah=
oma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefef; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: =
8px"><div><b>From:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:kent+ietf@watsen.net">Kent W=
atsen</a></div><div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2020-08-06&nbsp;06:14</div><div><b>T=
o:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a></div>=
<div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-n=
etconf-udp-notif</div></div></div><div><div>NETCONF WG,</div>=0A<div>&nbsp=
;</div>=0A<div>Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would l=
ike to solicit input on the following draft:</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<=
div>&nbsp;&nbsp; Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions</=
div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-net=
conf-udp-notif</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; Abstract:</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</di=
v>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This document describes an UDP-ba=
sed notification mechanism to</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
collect data from networking devices.&nbsp; A shim header is proposed to</=
div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; facilitate the streaming of dat=
a directly from line cards to a</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; collector.&nbsp; The objective is to rely on a lightweight approach to</=
div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; allow for higher frequency and =
better transit performance compared to</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; already established notification mechanisms.</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;<=
/div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>In particular, please discuss adoption-su=
itability as it regards to the following questions:</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</d=
iv>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF =
WG to solve?</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable ba=
sis for the work?</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>PS:=
 this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to gau=
ge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.</div>=0A<div>&nb=
sp;</div>=0A<div>NETCONF Chairs</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>_________=
______________________________________</div>=0A<div>netconf mailing list</=
div>=0A<div>netconf@ietf.org</div>=0A<div>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/netconf</div>=0A</div></blockquote>=0A</body></html>
------=_001_NextPart761000025715_=------

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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 11:46:37 +0800
From: "duzongpeng@foxmail.com" <duzongpeng@foxmail.com>
To: "Kent Watsen" <kent+ietf@watsen.net>,  "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Cc: duzongpeng <duzongpeng@chinamobile.com>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }div.FoxDiv20200812114605236681 { =
word-wrap: break-word; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Microsoft =
YaHei UI'; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }</style></head><body>=
=0A<div><span></span><span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui';=3D"" font-size:=
=3D"" 14px;=3D"" color:=3D"" rgb(0,=3D"" 0,=3D"" 0);=3D"" background-color=
:=3D"" rgba(0,=3D"" font-weight:=3D"" normal;=3D"" font-style:=3D"" normal=
;text-decoration:=3D"" none;'=3D"">Hi&nbsp;WG,<br>&nbsp;<br>With&nbsp;rega=
rd&nbsp;to&nbsp;the&nbsp;2&nbsp;questions&nbsp;for&nbsp;this&nbsp;draft:<b=
r>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1)&nbsp;is&nbsp;the&nbsp;problem&nbsp;=
important&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;NETCONF&nbsp;WG&nbsp;to&nbsp;solve?<br>&n=
bsp;<br>I&nbsp;think&nbsp;it=E2=80=99s&nbsp;valuable&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbs=
p;WG&nbsp;to&nbsp;solve.&nbsp;As&nbsp;mentioned&nbsp;in&nbsp;the&nbsp;othe=
r&nbsp;mail,&nbsp;for&nbsp;core&nbsp;devices&nbsp;with&nbsp;large&nbsp;amo=
unt&nbsp;of&nbsp;data&nbsp;to&nbsp;export,&nbsp;&nbsp;distributed&nbsp;exp=
orting&nbsp;mechanism&nbsp;could&nbsp;relieve&nbsp;the&nbsp;device&nbsp;wo=
rk&nbsp;load.<br>Directly&nbsp;export&nbsp;from&nbsp;the&nbsp;line&nbsp;ca=
rds&nbsp;can&nbsp;avoid&nbsp;the&nbsp;bottle&nbsp;neck&nbsp;when&nbsp;expo=
rting&nbsp;data&nbsp;from&nbsp;mainboard.<br>&nbsp;<br>2)&nbsp;is&nbsp;the=
&nbsp;draft&nbsp;a&nbsp;suitable&nbsp;basis&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;work?<b=
r>&nbsp;<br>Yes.&nbsp;I=E2=80=99ve&nbsp;read&nbsp;this&nbsp;document&nbsp;=
and&nbsp;think&nbsp;it=E2=80=99s&nbsp;a&nbsp;good&nbsp;basis&nbsp;for&nbsp=
;the&nbsp;work.</span></div>=0A<div><br></div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; h=
eight: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A<div><span><di=
v style=3D"margin: 10px;"><div><a href=3D"mailto:duzongpeng@foxmail.com" s=
tyle=3D"font-family: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px; background-color: tran=
sparent;">duzongpeng@foxmail.com</a><span style=3D"font-family: verdana; f=
ont-size: 13.3333px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, =
0);">&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"background-color: transparent;=
 font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: 20px;"><font face=3D"verdana">duzongpe=
ng@chinamobile.com</font></span></div><font face=3D"verdana"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0=
, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;"></span></font></div></span></div>=0A<block=
quote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5em; ma=
rgin-Right: inherit"><div>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top=
:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIGH=
T: 8px; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#00000=
0; BACKGROUND: #efefef; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>Fro=
m:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:kent+ietf@watsen.net">Kent Watsen</a></div><=
div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2020-08-06&nbsp;06:14</div><div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a></div><div><b>Subject:=
</b>&nbsp;[netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-distribut=
ed-notif</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv20200812114605236681">=
=0A<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=
=3D"">NETCONF WG,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">=0A<br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: r=
gb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">=0A<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); colo=
r: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Per the previous email sent moments ago, the =
chairs would like to solicit input on the following draft:</span>=0A<div s=
tyle=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br cl=
ass=3D"">=0A</div>=0A<div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><s=
pan style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nb=
sp;Subscription to Distributed Notifications</span></font>=0A<div class=3D=
""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link:=0A<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif" class=3D"">=0Ahttps://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif</a></span></font><br clas=
s=3D"">=0A<font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: r=
gb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</span></font><br class=3D"=
">=0A<br class=3D"">=0A<div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">=
<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 This documents describes extensions to the YANG notifications</span></fon=
t></div>=0A<div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=
=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; subscripti=
on to allow metrics being published directly from</span></font></div>=0A<d=
iv class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-colo=
r: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; processors on line cards=
 to target receivers, while subscription is</span></font></div>=0A<div cla=
ss=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; still maintained at the route =
processor in a distributed forwarding</span></font></div>=0A<div class=3D"=
"><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0,=
 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; system.</span></font></div>=0A<font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" cl=
ass=3D"">=0A<div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=
=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D"">=0A</span></font=
></div>=0A<br class=3D"">=0A</span></font><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D=
""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">In particular, pl=
ease discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the following questions=
:</span></font></div>=0A<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rg=
b(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D"">=0A</div>=0A<div style=3D"caret-col=
or: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the=
 problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br class=3D"">=0A&nbsp; &n=
bsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?</div>=0A<div style=3D"=
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""=
>=0A<br class=3D"">=0APS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but=
 rather an attempt to gauge interest/support for a potential future adopti=
on poll.<br class=3D"">=0A<br class=3D"">=0ANETCONF Chairs<br class=3D"">=
=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A</div></div></blockquote>=0A</body></html>
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.


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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
CC: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 04:10:28 +0000
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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  I think this work is of value.  We've had Local Device ID's defined in
802.1AR for some time, and some organizations interested in using them, but
we have not had any way to create an LDevID key, other than ad-hoc
manufacturer-defined techniques.

  This work would give network operators a vendor-independent automated,
zero-touch mechanism to create local device identity, and I think the draft
outlines a workable approach.

  I think it should go forward.

/guy fedorkow

 

 

 

From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net <mailto:kent+ietf@watsen.net> >

Subject: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr

Date: August 5, 2020 at 6:19:09 PM EDT

To: "netconf@ietf.org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org> " <netconf@ietf.org
<mailto:netconf@ietf.org> >

 

 

NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
input on the following draft: 

 

   Title: Conveying a CSR in an SZTP Bootstrapping Request 

   Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!XLb
LrNphNGxMj7dyV0cduDtrRfsFpnzdHJ2AK5X3aPB3oacu79Ua8sJYQghsc1P3aEw$>
draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
   Abstract:

      This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in

      RFC 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request (CSR), 

      enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an identity

      certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the

      "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply.

 


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
following questions:

 

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?



PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org> 
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

 

 

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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; I =
think this work is of value.&nbsp; We&#8217;ve had Local Device =
ID&#8217;s defined in 802.1AR for some time, and some organizations =
interested in using them, but we have not had any way to create an =
LDevID key, other than ad-hoc manufacturer-defined =
techniques.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; This work would =
give network operators a vendor-independent automated, zero-touch =
mechanism to create local device identity, and I think the draft =
outlines a workable approach.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; =
I think it should go forward.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>/guy =
fedorkow<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><blockquote =
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class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Kent Watsen &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kent+ietf@watsen.net">kent+ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt;</span><=
o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Subject: [netconf] =
Adoption-suitability for =
draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Date: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>August 5, 2020 at 6:19:09 =
PM EDT</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>To: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>NETCONF WG,<br><br>Per the previous email sent moments =
ago, the chairs would like to solicit input on the following draft: =
<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp;Conveying a CSR in =
an&nbsp;SZTP Bootstrapping Request <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/__;!!NEt6y=
MaO-gk!XLbLrNphNGxMj7dyV0cduDtrRfsFpnzdHJ2AK5X3aPB3oacu79Ua8sJYQghsc1P3aE=
w$">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a>draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr<br>&nb=
sp; &nbsp;Abstract:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; This draft extends the &quot;get-bootstrapping-data&quot; =
RPC defined in<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; RFC&nbsp;8572&nbsp;to include an optional certificate =
signing request (CSR), <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an =
identity<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of =
the<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&quot;onboarding information&quot; response provided in the =
RPC-reply.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>In =
particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the =
following questions:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the =
NETCONF WG to solve?<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis =
for the work?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br>PS: =
this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to =
gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption =
poll.<br><br>NETCONF Chairs<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>netc=
onf mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf">https://www.ietf.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3Dmsipfooter30b3d538 =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'margin:0in;text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:black'>Juniper Business Use =
Only</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: netconf-config-change notification & YANG push for ordered-by user list
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Subject: [netconf] netconf-config-change notification & YANG push for ordered-by user list
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Hi all,

What is the expected output for the RFC 6470 netconf-config-change notifica=
tion in the following situation (after the commit) ? Note that the notifica=
tion is not an edit-time notification. It is a notification intended to be =
sent after a commit (and actual change to the running).

Similar question -> what YANG Push notification(s) would we expect if someo=
ne had subscribed "on-change" to the running config?

A) YANG model

list foo {
   ordered-by user
   key "foo-name";
   leaf foo-name { type string; }
   leaf bar { type unit16; }
}

B) initial contents of running

foo red {
    bar 55
}
foo blue {
    bar 66
}
foo yellow {
    bar 77
}

C) edit the candidate so it contains this (change the order of blue and red=
)

foo blue {
    bar 66
}
foo red {
    bar 55
}
foo yellow {
    bar 77
}

D) commit

Questions:
Q1) contents of the netconf-config-change notification?
Q2) YANG PUSH notifications for an on-change subscription to the running co=
nfig?

I see that RFC8072 (patch) has a concept of a "move" operation (RFC 6470 / =
6241 doesn't have that). But patch could describe this change in a few diff=
erent ways in theory (option 1 seems most ideal, but maybe it depends what =
the underlying system will do with the change).

OPTION 1:
--------------
- operation=3Dmove, target =3D foo red, point =3D foo blue, where =3D after

OPTION 2:
--------------
- delete foo red
- insert foo red after foo blue

OPTION 3:
-------------
- delete foo blue
- insert foo blue before foo red

RFC 6470 doesn't really seem to have those semantics.

Rgds,
Jason


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What is the expected output for=
 the RFC 6470 netconf-config-change notification in the following situation=
 (after the commit) ? Note that the notification is not an edit-time notifi=
cation. It is a notification intended
 to be sent after a commit (and actual change to the running).<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Similar question -&gt; what YAN=
G Push notification(s) would we expect if someone had subscribed &quot;on-c=
hange&quot; to the running config?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">A) YANG model<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">list foo {<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; ordered-by user<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; key &quot;foo-name=
&quot;;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; leaf foo-name { ty=
pe string; }<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; leaf bar { type un=
it16; }<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">B) initial contents of running<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">foo red {<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bar 55<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">foo blue {<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bar 66<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">foo yellow {<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bar 77<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">}&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">C) edit the candidate so it con=
tains this (change the order of blue and red)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">foo blue {<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bar 66<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">foo red {<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bar 55<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">foo yellow {<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bar 77<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">}&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">D) commit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Q1) contents of the netconf-con=
fig-change notification?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Q2) YANG PUSH notifications for=
 an on-change subscription to the running config?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I see that RFC8072 (patch) has =
a concept of a &quot;move&quot; operation (RFC 6470 / 6241 doesn't have tha=
t). But patch could describe this change in a few different ways in theory =
(option 1 seems most ideal, but maybe it depends
 what the underlying system will do with the change).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">OPTION 1:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--------------<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- operation=3Dmove, target =3D =
foo red, point =3D foo blue, where =3D after<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">OPTION 2:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--------------<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- delete foo red<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- insert foo red after foo blue=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">OPTION 3:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-------------<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- delete foo blue<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- insert foo blue before foo re=
d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">RFC 6470 doesn't really seem to=
 have those semantics.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Rgds,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jason<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 15:07:47 -0700
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To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 2:47 PM Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Andy,
>
> On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to understand the NETCONF WG plan for UDP transport of
> notifications.
>
> The WG was developing a UDP draft already I think, and it was dropped.
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel-05
>
>
> In IETF 103, there was extensive discussion on
> draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel, with questions raised about the scope
> of the draft. In IETF 105 and 106, our guidance (see meeting minutes) was
> to repurpose the draft for a UDP notification channel, which the WG would
> then ultimately adopt. This draft satisfies that request. To clarify this
> further, the datatracker marks the new draft as a replacement for the
> draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel.
>
>
I support adoption of this draft.
I am willing to work on the document, review it, and implement it.
Hopefully the authors will add an example of a notification in each
encoding soon.

IMO there really should be 1 RFC that combines these documents:

     draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
     draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif
     draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages

The single source vs. multi-source distinction does not really require
separate documents.
General one-size-fits-all notification headers are too inefficient to use in
a high performance telemetry system.  Not sure where notification-messages
will ever get used.
IMO these 3 documents could be a good protocol, if combined and focused
correctly.


Mahesh & Kent (as co-chair)
>


Andy


>
>
> Since the WG dropped this problem and work item already, why should it
> reverse that decision
> and start over with a new solution?
>
>
> Andy
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen..net
> <kent%2Bietf@watsen.net>> wrote:
>
>> NETCONF WG,
>>
>> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit
>> input on the following draft:
>>
>>    Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions
>>    Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>>    Abstract:
>>
>>       This document describes an UDP-based notification mechanism to
>>       collect data from networking devices.  A shim header is proposed to
>>       facilitate the streaming of data directly from line cards to a
>>       collector.  The objective is to rely on a lightweight approach to
>>       allow for higher frequency and better transit performance compared
>> to
>>       already established notification mechanisms.
>>
>>
>> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the
>> following questions:
>>
>>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>>
>>
>> PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to
>> gauge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.
>>
>> NETCONF Chairs
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> netconf mailing list
>> netconf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>
>

--0000000000004b62bb05acdda7b5
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 2:47 PM Mahes=
h Jethanandani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Hi Andy,<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"c=
ite"><div>On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Andy Bierman &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
andy@yumaworks.com" target=3D"_blank">andy@yumaworks.com</a>&gt; wrote:</di=
v><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to understan=
d the NETCONF WG plan for UDP transport of notifications.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>The WG was developing a UDP draft already I think, and it was dropp=
ed.</div><div><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp=
-pub-channel-05" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-n=
etconf-udp-pub-channel-05</a><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></=
div>In IETF 103, there was extensive discussion on draft-ietf-netconf-udp-p=
ub-channel, with questions raised about the scope of the draft. In IETF 105=
 and 106, our guidance (see meeting minutes) was to repurpose the draft for=
 a UDP notification channel, which the WG would then ultimately adopt. This=
 draft satisfies that request. To clarify this further, the datatracker mar=
ks the new draft as a replacement for the draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channe=
l.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I support ado=
ption of this draft.</div><div>I am willing to work on the document, review=
 it, and implement it.</div><div>Hopefully the authors will add an example =
of a notification in each encoding soon.<br></div><div><br></div><div>IMO t=
here really should be 1 RFC that combines these documents:</div><div><br></=
div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif<br></div><div>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif<br></div><div>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages<br></div><div><br=
></div><div>The single source vs. multi-source distinction does not really =
require separate documents.</div><div>General one-size-fits-all notificatio=
n headers are too inefficient to use in</div><div>a high performance teleme=
try system.=C2=A0 Not sure where notification-messages will ever get used.<=
/div><div>IMO these 3 documents could be a good protocol, if combined and f=
ocused correctly.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div></div><div>Mahesh &amp; Kent (as co-c=
hair)</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div>=
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>S=
ince the WG dropped this problem and work item already, why should it rever=
se that decision</div><div>and start over with a new solution?</div><div><b=
r></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 =
at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net" target=
=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen..net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">NETCONF WG,<br>
<br>
Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit i=
nput on the following draft:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netco=
nf-udp-notif" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes an UDP-based notification mech=
anism to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 collect data from networking devices.=C2=A0 A shim hea=
der is proposed to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 facilitate the streaming of data directly from line ca=
rds to a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 collector.=C2=A0 The objective is to rely on a lightwe=
ight approach to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 allow for higher frequency and better transit performa=
nce compared to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 already established notification mechanisms.<br>
<br>
<br>
In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the fol=
lowing questions:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<br>
<br>
<br>
PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to g=
auge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br>
<br>
NETCONF Chairs<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>netconf mailing list<br>=
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br></div></blockquote=
></div><br></div></blockquote></div></div>

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Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/GRkFCwYqasI7FbHdYLnmKgCQbXk>
Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Hi Mahesh,

Thank you very much for the good summarization.

Hi Andy,

Thank you very much for the feedback. I am happy to hear that you will revi=
ew the document and consider to implement.


  *   Hopefully the authors will add an example of a notification in each e=
ncoding soon.
Sure, Pierre Fran=E7ois, one of the co-authors and professor at INSA univer=
sity and his colleagues already started working on an open-source YANG push=
 library for the receiver (data-collection) to support udp-notif and distri=
buted-notif. We planned to integrate this library into the open-source proj=
ect pmacct at IETF 109 hackathon to showcase a working receiver with a firs=
t vendor implementation. Further, we are in the evaluation on what environm=
ent to build an example open-source publisher which can be taken as referen=
ce for other implementations.

It would be interesting to understand how we could potentially collaborate.=
 I think the IETF 109 hackathon would be a good place to work and validate =
each other implementation. As we already were doing with BMP (BGP Monitorin=
g protocol) in previous IETF hackathons.
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-grow-ietf-108-hackat=
hon-bmp-00. What do you think?

Best Wishes
Thomas

From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Andy Bierman
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 12:08 AM
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Cc: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-not=
if



On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 2:47 PM Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.co=
m<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Andy,


On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com<mailto:andy@=
yumaworks.com>> wrote:

Hi,

I am trying to understand the NETCONF WG plan for UDP transport of notifica=
tions.

The WG was developing a UDP draft already I think, and it was dropped.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel-05<https://e=
ur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2=
Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel-05&data=3D02%7C01%7CThomas.Graf%=
40swisscom.com%7C6d61dd2dd3c3422f6c2d08d8409e8fc9%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35=
d19b557a1%7C1%7C0%7C637330397053580529&sdata=3D6YtbXF3DIp%2BJDhoi9flTQjWN92=
c6qv%2FT6sXqVRjLwCc%3D&reserved=3D0>

In IETF 103, there was extensive discussion on draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-c=
hannel, with questions raised about the scope of the draft. In IETF 105 and=
 106, our guidance (see meeting minutes) was to repurpose the draft for a U=
DP notification channel, which the WG would then ultimately adopt. This dra=
ft satisfies that request. To clarify this further, the datatracker marks t=
he new draft as a replacement for the draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel.


I support adoption of this draft.
I am willing to work on the document, review it, and implement it.
Hopefully the authors will add an example of a notification in each encodin=
g soon.

IMO there really should be 1 RFC that combines these documents:

     draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
     draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-notif
     draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages

The single source vs. multi-source distinction does not really require sepa=
rate documents.
General one-size-fits-all notification headers are too inefficient to use i=
n
a high performance telemetry system.  Not sure where notification-messages =
will ever get used.
IMO these 3 documents could be a good protocol, if combined and focused cor=
rectly.


Mahesh & Kent (as co-chair)


Andy




Since the WG dropped this problem and work item already, why should it reve=
rse that decision
and start over with a new solution?


Andy


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen..net<mailto:ke=
nt%2Bietf@watsen.net>> wrote:
NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit i=
nput on the following draft:

   Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions
   Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif<https://=
eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%=
2Fhtml%2Fdraft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif&data=3D02%7C01%7CThomas.Graf%40swiss=
com.com%7C6d61dd2dd3c3422f6c2d08d8409e8fc9%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557=
a1%7C1%7C0%7C637330397053590475&sdata=3Dm4ogTh90gPL4SVM2tGseQT9j6PY8ufPr5fP=
fNgvbK0I%3D&reserved=3D0>
   Abstract:

      This document describes an UDP-based notification mechanism to
      collect data from networking devices.  A shim header is proposed to
      facilitate the streaming of data directly from line cards to a
      collector.  The objective is to rely on a lightweight approach to
      allow for higher frequency and better transit performance compared to
      already established notification mechanisms.


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the fol=
lowing questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to g=
auge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A">Hi Mahesh,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A">Thank you very mu=
ch for the good summarization.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A">Hi Andy,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A">Thank you very mu=
ch for the feedback. I am happy to hear that you will review the document a=
nd consider to implement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hopefully the authors will add an example of a n=
otification in each encoding soon.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A">Sure,
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Pierre Fran=E7ois</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#44546A">, one of the co-authors and professor at INSA university and hi=
s colleagues already started working on an open-source
 YANG push library for the receiver (data-collection) to support udp-notif =
and distributed-notif. We planned to integrate this library into the open-s=
ource project pmacct at IETF 109 hackathon to showcase a working receiver w=
ith a first vendor implementation.
 Further, we are in the evaluation on what environment to build an example =
open-source publisher which can be taken as reference for other implementat=
ions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A">It would be inter=
esting to understand how we could potentially collaborate. I think the IETF=
 109 hackathon would be a good place to work and
 validate each other implementation. As we already were doing with BMP (BGP=
 Monitoring protocol) in previous IETF hackathons.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A"><a href=3D"https:=
//www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-grow-ietf-108-hackathon-bm=
p-00">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-grow-ietf-108-=
hackathon-bmp-00</a>.
 What do you think?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A">Best Wishes<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A">Thomas<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> netconf &lt;netconf-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andy Bierman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 15, 2020 12:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mahesh Jethanandani &lt;mjethanandani@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> netconf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 2:47 PM Mahesh Jethanandani =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mjethanand=
ani@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Andy,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:37 PM, Andy Bierman &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:andy@yumaworks.com" target=3D"_blank">andy@yumaworks.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am trying to understand the NETCONF WG plan for UD=
P transport of notifications.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WG was developing a UDP draft already I think, a=
nd it was dropped.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-netconf-udp-p=
ub-channel-05&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7CThomas.Graf%40swisscom.com%7C6d61dd2dd3c=
3422f6c2d08d8409e8fc9%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C1%7C0%7C63733039=
7053580529&amp;sdata=3D6YtbXF3DIp%2BJDhoi9flTQjWN92c6qv%2FT6sXqVRjLwCc%3D&a=
mp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-n=
etconf-udp-pub-channel-05</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In IETF 103, there was extensive discussion on draft=
-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel, with questions raised about the scope of the=
 draft. In IETF 105 and 106, our guidance (see meeting minutes) was to repu=
rpose the draft for a UDP notification
 channel, which the WG would then ultimately adopt. This draft satisfies th=
at request. To clarify this further, the datatracker marks the new draft as=
 a replacement for the draft-ietf-netconf-udp-pub-channel.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I support adoption of this draft.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am willing to work on the document, review it, and=
 implement it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hopefully the authors will add an example of a notif=
ication in each encoding soon.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMO there really should be 1 RFC that combines these=
 documents:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif<o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-unyte-netconf-distributed-=
notif<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-ietf-netconf-notification-=
messages<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The single source vs. multi-source distinction does =
not really require separate documents.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">General one-size-fits-all notification headers are t=
oo inefficient to use in<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">a high performance telemetry system.&nbsp; Not sure =
where notification-messages will ever get used.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMO these 3 documents could be a good protocol, if c=
ombined and focused correctly.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mahesh &amp; Kent (as co-chair)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since the WG dropped this problem and work item alre=
ady, why should it reverse that decision<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and start over with a new solution?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:14 PM Kent Watsen &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:kent%2Bietf@watsen.net" target=3D"_blank">kent+ietf@watsen..ne=
t</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NETCONF WG,<br>
<br>
Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit i=
nput on the following draft:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Title: UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Link: <a href=3D"https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-unyte-netconf-udp-noti=
f&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7CThomas.Graf%40swisscom.com%7C6d61dd2dd3c3422f6c2d08d=
8409e8fc9%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C1%7C0%7C637330397053590475&a=
mp;sdata=3Dm4ogTh90gPL4SVM2tGseQT9j6PY8ufPr5fPfNgvbK0I%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"=
 target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document describes an UDP-based notification mech=
anism to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; collect data from networking devices.&nbsp; A shim hea=
der is proposed to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; facilitate the streaming of data directly from line ca=
rds to a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; collector.&nbsp; The objective is to rely on a lightwe=
ight approach to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; allow for higher frequency and better transit performa=
nce compared to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; already established notification mechanisms.<br>
<br>
<br>
In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the fol=
lowing questions:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<br>
<br>
<br>
PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to g=
auge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br>
<br>
NETCONF Chairs<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnetconf&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7CThomas=
.Graf%40swisscom.com%7C6d61dd2dd3c3422f6c2d08d8409e8fc9%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9=
beec35d19b557a1%7C1%7C0%7C637330397053590475&amp;sdata=3D%2BdVisZkWD%2B9yBi=
avHLvkYEIwFKwJeOlx7yIu%2BI4gFEU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnetconf&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7CThomas=
.Graf%40swisscom.com%7C6d61dd2dd3c3422f6c2d08d8409e8fc9%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9=
beec35d19b557a1%7C1%7C0%7C637330397053600443&amp;sdata=3Dbd3zWWkteoRA01MGWV=
ZWAJM2wyCQH3Gs3ye9HNJ5zlU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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> NETCONF WG,
>
> Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to =
solicit input on the following draft:
>   Title: Conveying a CSR in an SZTP Bootstrapping Request
>   Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
>   Abstract:
>
>      This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in
>      RFC 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request =
(CSR),
>      enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an =
identity
>      certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the
>      "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply.
>
> In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to =
the following questions:
>
>   1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?

My reading of the charter puts this squarely in scope for the WG. =
Configuring an LDevID certificate as part of the bootstrap is important =
and the most straightforward way to do this is authentication based on =
IDevID.

>   2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?

I am a wee bit biased as an author I think this is a good a first draft. =
It would obviously be good to get some additional eyes on it though.

spt


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From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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--_000_MN2PR11MB43662E3AEB041DD101281818B55C0MN2PR11MB4366namp_
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Hi,

I believe that this draft offers a simple and very useful extension to sztp=
. It seems to offer a good starting place for this work.

I would like to see IETF to work on this, and given NETCONF standardized th=
e base draft, this seems a reasonable place to work on this.

Regards,
Rob
[As an individual contributor]


From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
Sent: 05 August 2020 23:19
To: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr


NETCONF WG,

Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit i=
nput on the following draft:

   Title: Conveying a CSR in an SZTP Bootstrapping Request
   Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
   Abstract:
      This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in
      RFC 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request (CSR),
      enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an identity
      certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the
      "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply.


In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the fol=
lowing questions:

    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?


PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to g=
auge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.

NETCONF Chairs

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I believe=
 that this draft offers a simple and very useful extension to sztp. It seem=
s to offer a good starting place for this work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I would l=
ike to see IETF to work on this, and given NETCONF standardized the base dr=
aft, this seems a reasonable place to work on this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards,<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Rob<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[As an in=
dividual contributor]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> netconf &lt;netconf-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Watsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 August 2020 23:19<br>
<b>To:</b> netconf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sz=
tp-csr<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">NETCONF WG,<br>
<br>
Per the previous email sent moments ago, the chairs would like to solicit i=
nput on the following draft:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp=
;Conveying a CSR in an&nbsp;SZTP Bootstrapping Request</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"color:=
black">&nbsp; &nbsp;Link:
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/">https://tools.ietf.org/html/</a>dr=
aft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr</span><br>
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thi=
s draft extends the &quot;get-bootstrapping-data&quot; RPC defined in</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; RFC=
&nbsp;8572&nbsp;to include an optional certificate signing request (CSR),</=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ena=
bling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an identity</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cer=
tificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &qu=
ot;onboarding information&quot; response provided in the RPC-reply.</span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><br>
In particular, please discuss adoption-suitability as it regards to the fol=
lowing questions:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) is the =
problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><br>
<br>
PS: this message is itself not an adoption poll, but rather an attempt to g=
auge interest/support for a potential future adoption poll.<br>
<br>
NETCONF Chairs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_MN2PR11MB43662E3AEB041DD101281818B55C0MN2PR11MB4366namp_--


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From: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
To: Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-kwatsen-netconf-sztp-csr
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From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DGB2312"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; fon=
t-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5;=
 }</style></head><body>=0A<div><span></span>Dear all,</div><div><br></div>=
<div><div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Microsoft Y=
aHei UI', Tahoma; line-height: normal; background-color: transparent;">I r=
ead the draft, r</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5;=
 background-color: transparent;">egarding the two questions, the comments =
are as follows:</span></div></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; l=
ine-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div><sp=
an style=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; back=
ground-color: transparent;">1. Is the problem important for the NETCONF WG=
 to solve?</span></div><div><span style=3D"text-align: justify; font-size:=
 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">I believe that =
it is important to minimize the number of subscription iterations between =
subscriber and publisher on which transport protocol, encoding,&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5;=
 background-color: transparent;">security parameters, compression schemes =
are supported, what kind of subscription policy can be composed and Random=
 guessing of different parameters&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"text-align: j=
ustify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent=
;">by a subscriber is not desirable according to RFC8641. Data export aim =
at addressing these issues.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
line-height: 1.5; text-align: justify; background-color: transparent;">I b=
elieve that the NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work. Service ca=
pability notification defined in draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilit=
ies&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; text-a=
lign: justify; background-color: transparent;">has been re-factored to be =
more generic and provides a good basis.</span></div><div><span style=3D"te=
xt-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: =
transparent;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"text-align: justify; fo=
nt-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">2. Is t=
he draft a suitable basis for the work?</span></div><div><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; text-align: justify; background-color: =
transparent;">I think this draft has been mature enough and provide a soli=
d basis for being moved forward.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"text-align: ju=
stify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;=
">If this work gets adopted, I will be glad to review any update of this d=
raft and contribute to relate discussion.</span></div></div><div><br></div=
><div><div><span style=3D"line-height: normal;">I believe it should move f=
orward. If the draft gets adopted, I am willing to contribute to it.</span=
></div><div><span style=3D"line-height: normal;"><br></span></div><div>Bes=
t regards,</div></div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b=
5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A<div><span><div style=3D"margin: 10px;=
"><div style=3D"font-family: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px;"><div style=3D=
"font-size: 13.3333px;"><span style=3D"font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=
=DA; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">=
Yuan ZHANG&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=
=DA; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">=
=D5=C5=D4=B0</span><span style=3D"font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; f=
ont-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;=
</span></div><div style=3D"font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px;"><font styl=
e=3D"font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5;"><font color=3D"#000080" style=3D"font-siz=
e: 13px;"><div style=3D"font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; color: rgb(=
0, 0, 0);"><div style=3D"font-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI';"><div style=3D=
"font-family: verdana; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size=
: 14px; font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
13px;"><span style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5; background-co=
lor: transparent;">China Telecom Research Institute&nbsp;</span></span><sp=
an style=3D"font-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI'; font-size: 13px; line-heigh=
t: 19.5px; background-color: transparent;">=D6=D0=B9=FA=B5=E7=D0=C5=D1=D0=
=BE=BF=D4=BA</span></div><div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: =CE=
=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA;"><span style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><span style=3D"te=
xt-align: justify;">Tel: +86-18918588990</span><br style=3D"text-align: ju=
stify;"></span><span style=3D"text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 13px;">Email: zhangy666@chinatelecom.cn</span></span></div></div></div=
></font></font></div></div></div></span></div>=0A</body></html>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DGB2312"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; fon=
t-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5;=
 }</style></head><body>=0A<div><span></span><div style=3D"text-align: just=
ify;">Dear all,&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"text-align: justify;"><br></div><=
div style=3D"text-align: justify;"><div style=3D"text-align: start;"><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI', Tahoma; li=
ne-height: normal; background-color: transparent;">R</span><span style=3D"=
font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">egard=
ing the two questions, the comments are as follows:</span></div><div style=
=3D"text-align: start;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5=
; text-align: justify; background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"text-align: start;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-hei=
ght: 1.5; text-align: justify; background-color: transparent;">1. Is the p=
roblem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?</span></div></div><div><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; text-align: justify; backgr=
ound-color: transparent;">I believe that it is important to retrieve diffe=
rent KPI data from various different data source and correlate them togeth=
er and provide comprehensive&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"text-align: justif=
y; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">vi=
ew of the network quality or network health from different angles. In addi=
tion, it is important to eliminate noise data to be exported to the manage=
ment plane.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.=
5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">Telemetry data tagg=
ing and classification is crucial to help capture characteristics data and=
 reduce amount of streamed data to the destination.&nbsp;</span><span styl=
e=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-=
color: transparent;">And I also believe that the NETCONF WG is the appropr=
iate WG for this work. draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities separa=
te notification capability model into&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"text-alig=
n: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transpa=
rent;">system capability model and ietf-notification-capabilities model wh=
ich serve as a good basis for telemetry data node capabilities definitions=
.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; tex=
t-align: justify; background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; text-align: justify; bac=
kground-color: transparent;">2. Is the draft a suitable basis for the work=
?</span></div><div><span style=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; =
line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">I have been aware MDT Te=
lemetry tagging Hackathon project in IETF 106 which was demonstrated in bo=
th IETF 106 Hakcathon meeting and Hackdemo Happy Hour.&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; backgrou=
nd-color: transparent;">I think this draft is mature enough and provide a =
solid basis for starting point.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;"=
>If this work gets adopted, I will be glad to review any update of this dr=
aft and contribute to relate discussion.</span></div></div><div><span styl=
e=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-=
color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div><div><span style=3D"line-height=
: normal;">I believe it should move forward.</span></div><div><span style=
=3D"line-height: normal;"><br></span></div><div>Best regards,</div></div><=
hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=
=3D"left">=0A<div><span><div style=3D"margin: 10px;"><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px;"><div style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"=
><span style=3D"font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; font-size: 10.5pt; =
line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">Yuan ZHANG&nbsp;</span><=
span style=3D"font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; font-size: 10.5pt; li=
ne-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">=D5=C5=D4=B0</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; font-size: 10.5pt; line-hei=
ght: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D=
"font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px;"><font style=3D"font-family: =CB=CE=
=CC=E5;"><font color=3D"#000080" style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><div style=3D"=
font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><div style=3D=
"font-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI';"><div style=3D"font-family: verdana; f=
ont-size: 14px;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: =CE=
=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA;"><span style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><span style=3D"te=
xt-align: justify; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">China=
 Telecom Research Institute&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-family:=
 'Microsoft YaHei UI'; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px; background-co=
lor: transparent;">=D6=D0=B9=FA=B5=E7=D0=C5=D1=D0=BE=BF=D4=BA</span></div>=
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA;"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><span style=3D"text-align: justify;">Tel: +8=
6-18918588990</span><br style=3D"text-align: justify;"></span><span style=
=3D"text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 13px;">Email: zhangy66=
6@chinatelecom.cn</span></span></div></div></div></font></font></div></div=
></div></span></div>=0A</body></html>
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To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DUTF-8"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }div.FoxDiv20200818234637083569 { =
}body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=
=91; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }</style></head><body>=0A<div>=
<h3 style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; margin: 2px 0px; font-weight: normal;=
 line-height: 1.2; font-size: 18px; color: rgb(33, 37, 41); font-family: -=
apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Ar=
ial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Sego=
e UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans:=
 2; widows: 2;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; backgrou=
nd-color: transparent;">Dear all,</span></h3></div><div><span style=3D"fon=
t-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI', Tahoma; line-height: no=
rmal; background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D=
"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI', Tahoma; line-height=
: normal; background-color: transparent;">R</span><span style=3D"font-size=
: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">egarding the t=
wo questions, the comments are as follows:</span></div><div><br></div><div=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; text-align: justify; =
background-color: transparent;">1. Is the problem important for the NETCON=
F WG to solve?</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-hei=
ght: 1.5; text-align: justify; background-color: transparent;">I think it =
is important to define criteria to classify subscription and indicate to t=
he server which specific subscription associated with the notification sho=
uld be bundled together&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"text-align: justify; fo=
nt-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">before =
bundling multiple notification in a single transport message.&nbsp;</span>=
<span style=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; b=
ackground-color: transparent;">And I believe that the NETCONF WG is the ap=
propriate WG for this work. RFC8639 and RFC8640 provide a good basis for t=
his work.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: =
1.5; text-align: justify; background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div=
><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; text-align: just=
ify; background-color: transparent;">2. Is the draft a suitable basis for =
the work?</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: =
1.5; text-align: justify; background-color: transparent;">I think this </s=
pan><span style=3D"line-height: 1.5; text-align: justify;">draft is mature=
 enough and provide a solid basis for starting point.</span></div><div><br=
></div>=0A<div>Best regards,</div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;"=
 color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A<div><span><div style=3D"m=
argin: 10px;"><div style=3D"font-family: verdana; font-size: 13.3333px;"><=
div style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><span style=3D"font-family: =E5=BE=AE=
=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; backgrou=
nd-color: transparent;">Yuan ZHANG&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:=
 =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5=
; background-color: transparent;">=E5=BC=A0=E5=9B=AD</span><span style=3D"=
font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; font-size: 10.5pt; line=
-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;</span></div><div styl=
e=3D"font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px;"><font style=3D"font-family: =E5=
=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><font color=3D"#000080" style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><div =
style=3D"font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; color: rgb(0, =
0, 0);"><div style=3D"font-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI';"><div style=3D"fo=
nt-family: verdana; font-size: 14px;"><span style=3D"font-family: =E5=BE=
=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; font-size: 13px; background-color: transpa=
rent;"><span style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5; background-co=
lor: transparent;"><br></span></span></div><div style=3D"font-family: verd=
ana; font-size: 14px;"><span style=3D"font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=
=9B=85=E9=BB=91; font-size: 13px; background-color: transparent;"><span st=
yle=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparen=
t;">China Telecom Research Institute&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"fon=
t-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI'; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px; back=
ground-color: transparent;">=E4=B8=AD=E5=9B=BD=E7=94=B5=E4=BF=A1=E7=A0=94=
=E7=A9=B6=E9=99=A2</span></div><div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family:=
 =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91;"><span style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><=
span style=3D"text-align: justify;">Tel: +86-18918588990</span><br style=
=3D"text-align: justify;"></span><span style=3D"text-align: justify;"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size: 13px;">Email: zhangy666@chinatelecom.cn</span></span=
></div></div></div></font></font></div></div></div></span></div><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5em; margin=
-Right: inherit"><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv20200818234637083569"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div class=3D"gmail-m_3402617765409017235=
WordSection1"><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none solid=
; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: =
0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0px;">=0A</blockquote>=0A<=
/div>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A</blockquote></div></div>=0A</div></div></blockq=
uote>=0A</body></html>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription
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YmxlIGJhc2lzIGZvciB0aGUgd29yaz8NCkkgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyBkcmFmdCBpcyBtYXR1cmUgZW5v
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aGFuZ3k2NjZAY2hpbmF0ZWxlY29tLmNuDQo=

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	charset="GB2312"
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DGB2312"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; fon=
t-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5;=
 }</style></head><body>=0A<div>Dear all,<span></span></div><div><div><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-heig=
ht: 1.5; background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Microsoft YaHei UI', Tahoma; lin=
e-height: normal; background-color: transparent;">I read the draft, r</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: tr=
ansparent;">egarding the two questions, the comments are as follows:</span=
></div></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; text=
-align: justify; background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; text-align: justify; back=
ground-color: transparent;">1. Is the problem important for the NETCONF WG=
 to solve?</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height:=
 1.5; text-align: justify; background-color: transparent;">I believe that =
it is important to allows the publisher to adjust the volume of telemetry =
data sent to the subscribers by changing data collection rate when both&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-heig=
ht: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">publishers and subscribers suppor=
t multiple update intervals or data collection rates. This will reduce ove=
rload on the receivers on one hand, getting more telemetry data for&nbsp;<=
/span><span style=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: =
1.5; background-color: transparent;">network failure diagnosis on the othe=
r hand.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt;=
 line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">And I believe that the =
NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work. RFC8639 and RFC8640 provid=
e a good basis for this work.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
0.5pt; line-height: 1.5; text-align: justify; background-color: transparen=
t;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1=
.5; text-align: justify; background-color: transparent;">2. Is the draft a=
 suitable basis for the work?</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
0.5pt; line-height: 1.5; text-align: justify; background-color: transparen=
t;">I think this draft is mature enough and provide a solid basis for star=
ting point.</span></div></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-=
height: 1.5; text-align: justify; background-color: transparent;"><br></sp=
an></div>=0A<div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; =
background-color: transparent;">Best regards,</span></div></div><hr style=
=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left=
">=0A<div><span><div style=3D"margin: 10px;"><div style=3D"font-family: ve=
rdana; font-size: 13.3333px;"><div style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; font-size: 10.5pt; line-hei=
ght: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">Yuan ZHANG&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; font-size: 10.5pt; line-heigh=
t: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">=D5=C5=D4=B0</span><span style=3D"=
font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5=
; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"font-si=
ze: 14px; line-height: 21px;"><font style=3D"font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5;"><=
font color=3D"#000080" style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><div style=3D"font-famil=
y: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><div style=3D"font-fami=
ly: 'Microsoft YaHei UI';"><div style=3D"font-family: verdana; font-size: =
14px;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=
=D1=C5=BA=DA;"><span style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><span style=3D"text-align:=
 justify; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">China Telecom =
Research Institute&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-family: 'Microso=
ft YaHei UI'; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px; background-color: tran=
sparent;">=D6=D0=B9=FA=B5=E7=D0=C5=D1=D0=BE=BF=D4=BA</span></div><div styl=
e=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA;"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 13px;"><span style=3D"text-align: justify;">Tel: +86-189185=
88990</span><br style=3D"text-align: justify;"></span><span style=3D"text-=
align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 13px;">Email: zhangy666@chinate=
lecom.cn</span></span></div></div></div></font></font></div></div></div></=
span></div>=0A</body></html>
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 15:18:22 -0700
Message-ID: <CABCOCHSFitzwFzjbyB7b5TaEMQsBzbzPPnc=5MTE=LFYRgUaBA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/7GPQ9DsSb6sk9SLzb1UCsZMNU10>
Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> [Also as a contributor]
>
>
>
> My comments are broadly similar to Kent=E2=80=99s.
>
>
>
> I believe that a UDP transport for dataplane telemetry where getting
> accurate fresh data quickly is more important than getting every update.
> This is particularly true if a subsequent notification will cover any los=
t
> values anyway (e.g. periodic statistics).
>
>
>

agreed.
There is also the resync-subscription mechanism to help recover from
missing data.

I suspect that having a mechanism to allow for the telemetry data being
> encrypted is probably also important.  If the WG were to adopt a draft
> without this, then as Benoit mentioned, I would have to test the water wi=
th
> the IESG to determine whether that would be acceptable.
>
>
I suspect the lack of congestion control might get their attention as well.


>
>
> I also note that the draft allows for a GPB encoding of the telemetry
> data, but I=E2=80=99m not aware of any formal standard encoding of YANG d=
ata in
> GPB, and there is a choice between whether the GPB encoding is generic fo=
r
> all YANG data, or specific GPB encodings are useful for the specific data
> that is being encoded.
>
>
>


I was confused by the same thing.
Is there a YANG schema for a notification element that is used?
Which means the .proto file is hardwired?
If not then how does the receiver know what is sent?
There are some technical issues that can be addressed if the draft is
adopted.



> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
>

Andy


>
>
> *From:* netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Kent Watsen
> *Sent:* 07 August 2020 21:16
> *To:* netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>
>
>
> [as a contributor]
>
>
>
>
>
>    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>
>
>
> I believe that it is important to enable publishers to send notifications
> using a UDP-based transport.   This belief is based on my experience from
> when at Juniper dealing with very high-end firewalls with enormous log
> output.
>
>
>
> I believe that the NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, having
> defined RFC 8639 (SN), RFC 8640 (NN), and RFC 8650 (RN).
>
>
>
>
>
>    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
>
> I have read the current version of the draft and find it to be a
> reasonable start.
>
>
>
> Presuming the =E2=80=9Creceiver-instances=E2=80=9D augmentation defined i=
n
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3 t=
akes
> off, the module defined in this draft should be updated to augment into i=
t
> instead.
>
>
>
> I appreciate Section 5 (Applicability) noting that the UDP-transport is
> primarily for the data plane (not the control plane), as it doesn=E2=80=
=99t matter
> so much if data plane notifications are lost.  This addresses (I think) t=
he
> issue that Rob Shakir raised before:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf (search for =E2=80=
=9CRob
> S=E2=80=9D).  That said, it is unclear to me how a receiver could configu=
re this
> while, e.g., configuring control plane notifications to be sent via a
> TCP-based transport such as =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
>
>
> 3) regarding Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:
>
>
>
>   a) I am willing to substantially review the drafts.
>
>   b) I am willing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.
>
>   c) I do NOT plan to implement the technology defined.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kent
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 AM Rob W=
ilton (rwilton) &lt;rwilton=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org"=
>40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-GB">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-8934360464504052115WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>[Also as a contributor]<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>My comments are broadly similar to Kent=E2=80=
=99s.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I believe that a UDP transport for dataplane t=
elemetry where getting accurate fresh data quickly is more important than g=
etting every update.=C2=A0 This is particularly true if a subsequent notifi=
cation
 will cover any lost values anyway (e.g. periodic statistics).<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0</span></p></div></div></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>agreed.</div><div>There is also the resync-subscript=
ion mechanism to help recover from missing data.</div><div><br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-GB"><div class=
=3D"gmail-m_-8934360464504052115WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I suspect that having a mechanism to allow for=
 the telemetry data being encrypted is probably also important.=C2=A0 If th=
e WG were to adopt a draft without this, then as Benoit mentioned, I would =
have
 to test the water with the IESG to determine whether that would be accepta=
ble.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u></span></p></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>I suspect the lack of congestion control might get their a=
ttention as well.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-GB"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-89343604645040521=
15WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I also note that the draft allows for a GPB en=
coding of the telemetry data, but I=E2=80=99m not aware of any formal stand=
ard encoding of YANG data in GPB, and there is a choice between whether the=
 GPB encoding
 is generic for all YANG data, or specific GPB encodings are useful for the=
 specific data that is being encoded.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0</span></p></div></div></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I was confused by the same thing.</di=
v><div>Is there a YANG schema for a notification element that is used?</div=
><div>Which means the .proto file is hardwired?</div><div>If not then how d=
oes the receiver know what is sent?</div><div>There are some technical issu=
es that can be addressed if the draft is adopted.</div><div><br></div><div>=
=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-8934360464504052115WordSection1"><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Regards,<br>
Rob<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0</span></p></div></div></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-GB"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-8934360=
464504052115WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> netconf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">netconf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Watsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 07 August 2020 21:16<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[as a contributor]<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01) is the problem important for th=
e NETCONF WG to solve?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe that it is important to enable publishers =
to send notifications using a UDP-based transport. =C2=A0 This belief is ba=
sed on my experience from when at Juniper dealing with very high-end firewa=
lls with enormous log output.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">I believe that the=C2=A0=
</span>NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, having defined RFC 8=
639 (SN),=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:black">RFC 8640 (NN), and=C2=A0</span>R=
FC 8650 (RN).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02) is the draft a suitable basis f=
or the work?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have read the current version of the draft and fin=
d it to be a reasonable start.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Presuming the =E2=80=9Creceiver-instances=E2=80=9D a=
ugmentation defined in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ie=
tf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3</a>=C2=A0takes off, the=
 module
 defined in this draft should be updated to augment into it instead.<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">I appreciate Section 5 (=
Applicability) noting that the UDP-transport is primarily for the data plan=
e (not the control plane), as it doesn=E2=80=99t matter so much if data pla=
ne notifications are lost.=C2=A0 This addresses (I
 think) the issue that Rob Shakir raised before: <a href=3D"https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf</a>=C2=A0(search for =
=E2=80=9CRob S=E2=80=9D).=C2=A0 That said, it is unclear to me how a receiv=
er could configure this while, e.g., configuring control plane notification=
s to be sent via a TCP-based transport such as =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=
=9D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">3) regarding Juergen=E2=
=80=99s questions:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 a) I am willing t=
o substantially review the drafts.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 b) I am=C2=A0will=
ing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 c) I do NOT=C2=A0=
plan to implement the technology defined.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Kent<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000998bc505ad2e444e--


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Draft minutes from the 108 NETCONF session have been uploaded here:

   =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/minutes/minutes-108-netconf-02.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/minutes/minutes-108-netconf-02.html>=


NETCONF Chairs





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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Draft minutes from the 108 NETCONF session have been uploaded here:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>&nbsp; &nbsp;<a href="https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/minutes/minutes-108-netconf-02.html" class="">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/minutes/minutes-108-netconf-02.html</a><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">NETCONF Chairs</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></body></html>
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From nobody Thu Aug 20 07:03:40 2020
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Types and Groupings for Cryptography
        Author          : Kent Watsen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-18.txt
	Pages           : 56
	Date            : 2020-08-20

Abstract:
   This document presents a YANG 1.1 (RFC 7950) module defining
   identities, typedefs, and groupings useful to cryptographic
   applications.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

        Title           : A YANG Data Model for a Truststore
        Author          : Kent Watsen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-13.txt
	Pages           : 39
	Date            : 2020-08-20

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG 1.1 data model for configuring globally-
   accessible bags of certificates and public keys that can be
   referenced by other data models for trust.

Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor)

   This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with
   finalized values at the time of publication.  This note summarizes
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   The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication:

   *  Appendix A.  Change Log


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

        Title           : A YANG Data Model for a Keystore
        Author          : Kent Watsen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-20.txt
	Pages           : 52
	Date            : 2020-08-20

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG 1.1 module called "ietf-keystore" that
   enables centralized configuration of both symmetric and asymmetric
   keys.  The secret value for both key types may be encrypted or
   hidden.  Asymmetric keys may be associated with certificates.
   Notifications are sent when certificates are about to expire.

Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor)

   This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with
   finalized values at the time of publication.  This note summarizes
   all of the substitutions that are needed.  No other RFC Editor
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   publication of this draft.  Please apply the following replacement:

   *  "2020-08-20" --> the publication date of this draft

   The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication:

   *  Appendix A.  Change Log


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https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-20
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Groupings for TCP Clients and TCP Servers
        Authors         : Kent Watsen
                          Michael Scharf
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-08.txt
	Pages           : 32
	Date            : 2020-08-20

Abstract:
   This document defines three YANG 1.1 [RFC7950] modules to support the
   configuration of TCP clients and TCP servers, either as standalone or
   in conjunction with a stack protocol layer specific configurations.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server/

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Groupings for SSH Clients and SSH Servers
        Author          : Kent Watsen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-22.txt
	Pages           : 62
	Date            : 2020-08-20

Abstract:
   This document defines three YANG modules: the first defines groupings
   for a generic SSH client, the second defines groupings for a generic
   SSH server, and the third defines common identities and groupings
   used by both the client and the server.  It is intended that these
   groupings will be used by applications using the SSH protocol.

Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor)

   This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with
   finalized values at the time of publication.  This note summarizes
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   *  "CCCC" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-keystore

   *  "DDDD" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-
      client-server

   *  "EEEE" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft

   Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of
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   The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication:

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The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Groupings for TLS Clients and TLS Servers
        Author          : Kent Watsen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-22.txt
	Pages           : 59
	Date            : 2020-08-20

Abstract:
   This document defines three YANG modules: the first defines groupings
   for a generic TLS client, the second defines groupings for a generic
   TLS server, and the third defines common identities and groupings
   used by both the client and the server.  It is intended that these
   groupings will be used by applications using the TLS protocol.

Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor)

   This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with
   finalized values at the time of publication.  This note summarizes
   all of the substitutions that are needed.  No other RFC Editor
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   *  "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-
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      anchors

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      client-server

   *  "FFFF" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft

   Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of
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   *  "2020-08-20" --> the publication date of this draft

   The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication:

   *  Appendix A.  Change Log


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
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There are also htmlized versions available at:
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From nobody Thu Aug 20 15:02:16 2020
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Groupings for HTTP Clients and HTTP Servers
        Author          : Kent Watsen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-http-client-server-05.txt
	Pages           : 31
	Date            : 2020-08-20

Abstract:
   This document defines two YANG modules: the first defines a minimal
   grouping for configuring an HTTP client, and the second defines a
   minimal grouping for configuring an HTTP server.  It is intended that
   these groupings will be used to help define the configuration for
   simple HTTP-based protocols (not for complete web servers or
   browsers).

Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor)

   This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with
   finalized values at the time of publication.  This note summarizes
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   Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in
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   *  "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-
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      client-server

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      client-server

   *  "FFFF" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tls-
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   *  "GGGG" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft
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   The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication:

   *  Appendix A.  Change Log


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
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There are also htmlized versions available at:
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From nobody Thu Aug 20 15:05:56 2020
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

        Title           : NETCONF Client and Server Models
        Author          : Kent Watsen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-21.txt
	Pages           : 58
	Date            : 2020-08-20

Abstract:
   This document defines two YANG modules, one module to configure a
   NETCONF client and the other module to configure a NETCONF server.
   Both modules support both the SSH and TLS transport protocols, and
   support both standard NETCONF and NETCONF Call Home connections.

Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor)

   This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with
   finalized values at the time of publication.  This note summarizes
   all of the substitutions that are needed.  No other RFC Editor
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   Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in
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   *  "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-
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   *  "BBBB" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-trust-
      anchors

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      client-server

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      client-server

   *  "FFFF" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tls-
      client-server

   *  "GGGG" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-http-
      client-server

   *  "HHHH" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft
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   The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication:

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

        Title           : RESTCONF Client and Server Models
        Author          : Kent Watsen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-21.txt
	Pages           : 55
	Date            : 2020-08-20

Abstract:
   This document defines two YANG modules, one module to configure a
   RESTCONF client and the other module to configure a RESTCONF server.
   Both modules support the TLS transport protocol with both standard
   RESTCONF and RESTCONF Call Home connections.

Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor)

   This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with
   finalized values at the time of publication.  This note summarizes
   all of the substitutions that are needed.  No other RFC Editor
   instructions are specified elsewhere in this document.

   Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in
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   be present):

   *  "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-
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      anchors

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      client-server

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      client-server

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      client-server

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      client-server

   *  "HHHH" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-
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   *  "IIII" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft

   Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of
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   *  "2020-08-20" --> the publication date of this draft

   The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication:

   *  Appendix B.  Change Log


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There are also htmlized versions available at:
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From nobody Thu Aug 20 16:40:52 2020
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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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Cc: Sandra Murphy <sandy@tislabs.com>, =?utf-8?Q?Magnus_Nystr=C3=B6m?= <magnusn@gmail.com>
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Subject: [netconf] Update to collection of drafts
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NETCONF + SecDIr,

I just updated the collection of drafts to:

  - address WGLC comments...in the first three drafts.
  - address issues raised during the 108 session.
  - address issues raised by SecDIr on the =E2=80=9Ckeystore=E2=80=9D =
draft.


HIGHLIGHTS: No more FIXMEs!

LOWLIGHTS: despite working with the tools team to insure this doesn=E2=80=99=
t happen, it is still the case that the references (hyperlinks) are =
pointing to the *pervious* version of the referenced document.  Please =
be sure to always increment the revision number when chasing leads.=20


Details:

For crypto-types:
   *  Fixed issues found by the SecDir review of the "keystore" draft.
   *  Added "password-grouping", discussed during the IETF 108 session.

For trust-anchors:
   *  Fixed issues found by the SecDir review of the "keystore" draft.

For keystore:
   *  Addressed SecDir comments from Magnus Nystroem and Sandra Murphy.

For tcp-client-server:
   *  Added missing IANA registration for "ietf-tcp-common=E2=80=9D.
   *  Added "mandatory true" for the "username" and "password=E2=80=9D =
leafs.
   *  Added an example of a TCP-client configured to connect via a =
proxy.
   *  Fixed issues found by the SecDir review of the "keystore" draft.
   *  Updated the "ietf-tcp-client" module to use the new "password-
      grouping" grouping from the "crypto-types" module.

For ssh-client-server:
   *  Cleaned up the SSH-client examples (i.e., removing FIXMEs)
   *  Fixed issues found by the SecDir review of the "keystore" draft.
   *  Updated the "ietf-ssh-client" module to use the new "password-
      grouping" grouping from the "crypto-types" module.

For tls-client-server:
   *  In both the "client-authentication" and "server-authentication"
      subtrees, replaced the "psks" node from being a P-container to a
      leaf of type "empty".
   *  Cleaned up examples (e.g., removed FIXMEs)
   *  Fixed issues found by the SecDir review of the "keystore" draft.
   *  Updated the "psk" sections in the "ietf-tls-client" and "ietf-tls-
      server" modules to more correctly reflect RFC 4279.

For http-client-server:
   *  Fixed titles and a ref in the IANA Considerations section.
   *  Cleaned up examples (e.g., removed FIXMEs).
   *  Fixed issues found by the SecDir review of the "keystore" draft.
   *  Updated the "ietf-http-client" module to use the new "password-
      grouping" grouping from the "crypto-types" module.

For netconf-client-server:
   *  Cleaned up titles in the IANA Considerations section.
   *  Fixed issues found by the SecDir review of the "keystore" draft.

For restconf-client-server:
   *  Cleaned up titles in the IANA Considerations section.
   *  Fixed issues found by the SecDir review of the "keystore" draft.


K.



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From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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[+netconf (for visibility) and -keystore.authors (since its just me)]


Hi Sandy,

This is a massive review.  Thank you for that, but it demands a massive =
response=E2=80=A6I hope you=E2=80=99re ready for it  ;)

Before jumping in, I want to clarify something that I=E2=80=99ll also =
make a point to add to the Introduction section, which is that the =
ietf-keystore YANG module defines a configuration model supporting =
existing practices; it does not intend to define new ways for doing =
things.  For instance, the sections regarding built-in keys, hidden =
keys, key-encryption keys, and master keys all attempt to support =
existing practices.  The point being that, in thinking about what these =
sections are saying, trust that this draft isn=E2=80=99t defining new =
behavior, and folk's experience with systems is the best guide.

Also, note that I did update Section 4 (Encrypting Keys in =
Configuration) per Magnus=E2=80=99s review.  That update was sent to the =
SecDir list on the 10th (with GitHub commit here [1]).  While the =
section was effectively entirely rewritten, the update essentially =
accomplishes just one thing, which is the swap a couple terms as =
follows: r/root key/master key/ and r/shared root key/key encryption =
key/.  Your review precedes this update, but my responses below will, =
when appropriate, reflect the current terms.

[1] =
https://github.com/netconf-wg/keystore/commit/5b3b9f3db0d6b7027ddf5f0e983a=
b958e8802251 =
<https://github.com/netconf-wg/keystore/commit/5b3b9f3db0d6b7027ddf5f0e983=
ab958e8802251>


PS: I just updated all the drafts with the updates from this email.  The =
bad news is that the Datatracker is still using the *previous* draft =
version for hyperlinks, so be sure to manually increment whenever =
opening a referenced document.

Thanks,
Kent



> On Aug 12, 2020, at 9:10 AM, Sandra Murphy <sandy@tislabs.com> wrote:
>=20
> This is a requested SECDIR early review of =
draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-19, not an IETF Last Call review.
>=20
> I have reviewed this document as an early review assigned by the =
security directorate, as part of the directorate's ongoing effort to =
review documents headed eventually to the IESG.  Document editors and WG =
chairs should treat these comments just like any other comments.
>=20
> I am a neophyte at Yang so any comments I make here should be =
understood with that in mind.  (The recent mpls and netconf discussion =
of the MPLS module reuse of an RPC and the difference between =
"destination address" and "local label" have further impressed upon me =
just how much I do not know about YANG.)
>=20
> Outline of this review is:
>=20
> News of draft status
> Summary of the draft
> General and issue comments
> Page-by-page comments and nits
>=20
>=20
> News of draft status:
> ---------------------
>=20
> This document was in WGLC when assigned and it appears that the WGLC =
has not yet been decided.
>=20
> In the netconf session at IETF108, the wg discussed the need for a raw =
password feature, which might end up as a new grouping being added to =
the draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types and therefore might induce changes =
to this draft as well.

True, it was discussed @108, but that change in crypto-types will not =
affect this draft (however, it will affect the tcp-client-server, =
ssh-client-server, and http-client-server drafts)


> Summary of the draft:
> ---------------------
>=20
> The draft abstract says:
>  This document defines a YANG 1.1 module called "ietf-keystore" that
>  enables centralized configuration of both symmetric and asymmetric
>  keys.
>=20
> Keys may be symmetric or asymmetric, and maybe be of types =
"cleartext", "hidden" (as in a TPM), or "encrypted". Keys can be =
configured locally (which means within the data model) or as a reference =
to a keystore item.  One server might have multiple keystores in use at =
any one time.
>=20
> The document defines groupings that might prove useful for other YANG =
modules that import this one.
>=20
> The document describes the data model for the keystore and provides =
many examples.  The descriptions of the data model and examples are =
presented in different modes as you read through the document, in tree =
diagrams, XML, and text that (surely?) is YANG (I think).  I believe the =
YANG text is authoritative.

True, the YANG module in Section 2.3 is the raison d=E2=80=99=C3=AAtre =
for the draft.



> For other readers, here's the sequence of description modes.
>=20
> Section 2.1 Mostly tree diagram descriptions of the groupings defined =
in this document.
>=20
> Section 2.2.1-2.2.2 Examples (Keystore Instance and Cert Expiration) =
given in XML.
>=20
> Section 2.2.3 A module, containing those groupings of Section 2.1 =
whose titles' prefixes are "local-or-keystore-", is described in what I =
believe would be called YANG (p16-18) and then in a tree diagram =
(p19-23).
>=20
> Section 2.3 This section describes what I believe to be the normative =
Yang module text.

Yes, the YANG module in 2.3 is the normative module text for the draft.


>=20
> General and issue comments:
> ---------------------------
>=20
> This document is very well written.  The examples were very helpful, =
particularly to this reader who was unfamiliar with Yang.  I can't =
imagine the patience and care it took to keep so many descriptions in =
close alignment.

My secret is:

1) maintain all YANG modules and examples a stand-alone files.
2) each time building the draft (`make clean; make`), dynamically:
      a) validate all YANG modules
      b) validate all examples against the YANG modules
      c) generate all tree diagrams
      d) stitch tree-diagrams, examples, and YANG modules into an uber =
xml2rfc file

This way, everything stays connected and up-to-date.  I takes effort to =
set up, but it pays for itself over time (not only for the author, but =
also for WG participants who might otherwise discover anomalies that =
could=E2=80=99ve been caught).


> The document describes two new typedefs: asymmetric-key-ref and =
symmetric-key-ref.  Those typedefs are never further explained.  I =
believe (based only on the string "ref" in the name and usage as =
"keystore-reference") that these are intended to be references to named =
items in other parts of the keystore which themselves contain keys.  =
(Sheesh it takes a lot of words!) And I hope/believe that the =
asymmetric-key-ref is to a structure that contains a key-pair.

Yes, you got it.=20

FWIW, Section 2.1.2 (Typedefs) says: "The leafrefs refer to symmetric =
and asymmetric keys in the keystore.  These typedefs are provided =
primarily as an aid to downstream modules that import the =
"ietf-keystore" module.=E2=80=9D   Not good enough?


> The text typically says "asymmetric key" without distinguishing =
whether it is talking about the public key, the private key, or a =
key-pair.  Presumably "asymmetric key" means a key-pair and the =
implementations of operations know from context which key in the =
key-pair is needed.

Yes, that is what is intended.  Is that nomenclature okay or should =
=E2=80=9Ckey-pair=E2=80=9D be postpended throughout?

In contrast, note that when referring to asymmetric key halfs, the text =
attempts to always call that it out, e.g., =E2=80=9Cthe public half of =
the asymmetric key=E2=80=9D.


> I am not familiar with the Yang system, so I wonder if there is any =
mechanism in Yang's use to check if the assumptions of the data model =
are followed.  (1) If an asymmetric key is configured with a public key =
and a private key that are not a key-pair, where is that caught?  (2) If =
an asymmetric key and an associated cert are configured, but the public =
key part of the structure is not the public key mentioned in the cert, =
where is that caught?  (3) If the data model says that a component is an =
asymmetric-key-ref, but the de-ref'd value is not an asymmetric key (key =
type?), where is that caught, like maybe when the value is stored in the =
keystore?  (Do the questions even make sense?)

Yes, the questions (now numbered 1-3) make sense.

For #1) I just updated the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D for the " =
asymmetric-key-pair-grouping=E2=80=9D in the "ietf-crypto-types=E2=80=9D =
module (in draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types):

OLD:
      "A private key and its associated public key.";

NEW:
      "A private key and its associated public key.  Implementations
       SHOULD ensure that the two keys are a matching pair.=E2=80=9D

[Note: =E2=80=9CSHOULD=E2=80=9D is used instead of =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D =
because the fallback is to simply *trust* that the clients never =
configure mismatched values.]

For #2) Already the description statements for various groupings in the =
"ietf-crypto-types=E2=80=9D module have suitable statements:

  grouping end-entity-cert-grouping {
    description
      "An end entity certificate, and a notification for when
       it is about to (or already has) expire.  Implementations
       SHOULD assert that, where used, the end entity certificate
       contains the expected public key.=E2=80=9D;
    <snip/>
  }

  grouping asymmetric-key-pair-with-cert-grouping {
    description
      "A private/public key pair and an associated certificate.
       Implementations SHOULD assert that certificates contain
       the matching public key.=E2=80=9D;
    <snip/>
  }

  grouping asymmetric-key-pair-with-certs-grouping {
    description
      "A private/public key pair and associated certificates.
       Implementations SHOULD assert that certificates contain
       the matching public key.=E2=80=9D;
    <snip/>
  }


For #3) There are three parts to this one. =20

3a) First, when configuring a key into the Keystore, I made the =
following adjustments:

For "symmetric-key-grouping=E2=80=9D:
  OLD:
      description
        "Identifies the symmetric key's format.=E2=80=9D;
  NEW:
      description
        "Identifies the symmetric key's format.  Implementations
         SHOULD ensure that incoming symmetric key value is encoded
         in the specified format.=E2=80=9D;

For "public-key-grouping=E2=80=9D:
  OLD:
      description
        "Identifies the public key's format.";
    }
  NEW:
      description
        "Identifies the public key's format. Implementations SHOULD
         ensure that incoming public key value is encoded in the
         specified format.";
    }

For asymmetric-key-pair-grouping:
  OLD:
      description
        "Identifies the private key's format.";
    }
  NEW:
      description
        "Identifies the private key's format.  Implementations SHOULD
         ensure that incoming private key value is encoded in the
         specified format.";
    }



3b) Second, regarding if a format mismatch can occur, this is not =
possible as, e.g., the =E2=80=9Ckey-format=E2=80=9D for the =
symmetric-key (see below) uses an =E2=80=9Cidentityref" that indicates =
that set values must derive from the "symmetric-key-format=E2=80=9D =
(i.e., NOT either the =E2=80=9Cpublic-key-format=E2=80=9D or =
=E2=80=9Cprivate-key-format=E2=80=9D identities):

    leaf key-format {
      nacm:default-deny-write;
      type identityref {
        base symmetric-key-format;
      }



3c) Third, regarding if the thing referenced is what its supposed to be, =
note in the YANG module has this definition:

  typedef asymmetric-key-ref {
    type leafref {
      path "/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key"
         + "/ks:name";
    }

Thus, if a configuration points to =E2=80=9Cfoo=E2=80=9D, but no =
asymmetric key called =E2=80=9Cfoo=E2=80=9D exists, then a YANG =
validation would fail when the configuration is attempted to be set.


QUESTION: should these implementation-notes be *moved* into Security =
Considerations?    One one hand, there=E2=80=99s is best IETF-form but, =
on the other hand, there is best YANG-form.   =46rom both PoVs, I think =
a case can be made but, if no one cares, I=E2=80=99ll leave it be.


> Section 3 says
>                            Built-in "encrypted" keys MAY be copied
>  into other parts of the configuration so long as they maintain their
>  reference to the other built-in key that encrypted them.
>=20
> I could see that built-in keys should be encrypted by other built-in =
keys (I don't see what other keys are available at the building-in time =
to encrypt them, but proof by "I don't see" is unconvincing).  Is that =
required?  I don't think the data model represents built-in keys as a =
distinct type, so I'm not sure the data model could represent the =
built-in-ness requirement.  Could it ever be that a built-in key could =
be encrypted by a non-built-in key?  I.e., does something prevent it.

=46rom a terminology perspective, equate =E2=80=9Cbuilt-in=E2=80=9D with =
=E2=80=9Cgenerated by the manufacturer and/or in the device=E2=80=99s =
factory default configuration".

To the last question, no, a built-in key cannot be encrypted by a =
non-builtin key.  That would be putting the cart in front of the horse, =
so to speak.

But, to the crux of your question, that sentence simply acknowledging =
what=E2=80=99s possible.  For instance, imagine a device ships with a =
*hidden* built-in key called =E2=80=9Cfoo=E2=80=9D and an encrypted =
built-in key called =E2=80=9Cbar=E2=80=9D, where bar is encrypted by =
foo.   Presumably both foo and bar would appear in the Keystore in =
<operational> and, if a user wanted to use bar as a KEK, they would copy =
it into the exact same spot in <running> (i.e., in Keystore, using the =
same name, e.g., =E2=80=9Cbar").  This sentence acknowledges that the =
key might possibly be renamed =E2=80=9Cbaz=E2=80=9D or possibly be =
copied into a =E2=80=9Clocal definition=E2=80=9D somewhere (i.e., not in =
Keystore at all).  In such cases, the configured-key is still valid so =
long as the base64 and the leafref pointing to =E2=80=9Cfoo=E2=80=9D =
remain.  It=E2=80=99s a corner case that=E2=80=99s unlikely to trigger =
in practice, because why would you, though theoretically possible =
without a technical reason for a constraint.  Makes sense? =20



> Section 4 p34 says "built-in keys MUST be hidden".  That really should =
be mentioned in Section 3.

As mentioned in an email I wrote on Thu (Aug 13th), I don=E2=80=99t =
think this MUST is enforceable and so am dialing it back something akin =
to a SHOULD or RECOMMENDED via this text:

            A MEK is commonly a globally-unique built-in (see <xref =
target=3D"built-ins"/>)
            asymmetric key for which the private key, due to its long =
lifetime, is hidden=20
            (<relref section=3D"2.1.4.5." =
target=3D"I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types"/>) and the=20
            public key is contained in an identity certificate (e.g., =
IDevID).



> Section 3 and 4 about built-in keys and root keys and hidden keys:
>=20
> Section 4 p34 says
>=20
>  The root key SHOULD be a hidden key, i.e., one whose private data has
>  no presence in <running> or <operational>
>=20
> and
>                                   Given the long lifetime of built-in
>  keys (see Section 3), built-in keys MUST be hidden.

But this last part is no longer a =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D (see above)

> and Section 3 p32 says
>=20
>  The key characteristic of the built-in keys is that they are provided
>  by the system, as opposed to configuration.  As such, they are
>  present in <operational>.
>=20
> So built-in keys must be hidden, which means they are candidates to be =
root keys, but they are "present in operational".  By the first =
sentence, their private data is not in <operational>, so the =
configuration must use the hidden-private-key or hidden-key key-type for =
the secret parts.

Yes

> By the requirement that built-in keys must be hidden, servers that do =
not support hidden keys can not use built-in keys.  Correct?

Not anymore, since it can=E2=80=99t be enforced.  The better statement =
might be: "it is highly RECOMMENDED that builtin keys are [permanently] =
hidden and, if this is not possible, highly restricted access mechanisms =
are used to limit the built-in key's secret data to only highly =
authorized clients (e.g., an organization=E2=80=99s crypto officer)."



>  A hidden root key MAY be either a symmetric key or an asymmetric key.

True.   Asymmetric is the common case but its possible that a MEK could =
be a symmetric key, such that *only* a, e.g., TPM, is able to =
encrypt/decrypt certain keys (e.g., KEKs)


> Does the same apply to built-in keys?  The examples in Section 3 are =
all asymmetric keys.

Yes (see example in previous response)


> Is using a built-in key as a root key advisable in operational =
situations?

Absolutely.  This is commonly done and (I think) recommended by TCG.


> Presumably if a root key is not a built-in key and not a hidden key, =
then its secret data must be of cleartext-key type.  Encrypting the root =
key is not possible, there is no other single key available (or it would =
be the root key).  Has any consideration been given to dual root keys?  =
I could see that that would be too complex to manage.

Your presumptions are correct.   There certainly could be more than one =
MEK (root key).  This model doesn=E2=80=99t constrain that possibility =
from being exposed to users.


> Section 4.1 p35
>=20
> The use of the root key mentions encrypting with an asymmetric key, =
but not signing with an asymmetric key.  Are signing and other crypto =
services not a part of the netconf view?

Signing is using something a device might do to prove to a remote peer =
that it originated some data.   In the context of the Keystore, it=E2=80=99=
s clearly desirable to configure encrypted keys but not clear there is a =
need to configure signed keys.  At least, I=E2=80=99m unaware of the use =
case.   Certainly any asymmetric key could be used to sign data, but the =
API (i.e., RPCs) enabling that are currently outside the scope of this =
document.



> Section 4.2 p35
>=20
>  Each time a new key is to be configured, it SHOULD be encrypted by
>  the root key.
>=20
> Would it be good to discuss how to configure a root key?  If the root =
key is not a built-in key and there is no support for a hidden key, then =
a cleartext key would be required, correct?  An encrypted key would not =
be possible because it would require a second key that would have to be =
available in the keystore - which means that would be the root key.

I added:

   "How to configure a MEK during the manufacturing process is outside
     the scope of this document.=E2=80=9D

And:

     "It is highly RECOMMENDED that MEKs are built-in and hidden but, if
      this is not possible, MEKs highly restricted access mechanisms =
SHOULD=20
      be used to limit access to the MEK's secret data to only highly=20
      authorized clients (e.g., an organization=E2=80=99s crypto =
officer).  In this
      case, it is RECOMMENDED that the MEK is not built-in and hence is,
      effectively, just like a KEK.=E2=80=9D


> Section 4.3 p35

Heads up: this is the section that was rewritten based on Magnus=E2=80=99s=
 review.  The =E2=80=9Cshared root key=E2=80=9D is now called =E2=80=9Ckey=
 encryption key=E2=80=9D (KEK) and the =E2=80=9Croot key=E2=80=9D is now =
=E2=80=9Cmaster encryption key=E2=80=9D (MEK) in the -20 version I =
shared as an attachment last week. =20

PS: Magnus suggests renaming =E2=80=9CMaster Encryption Key=E2=80=9D to =
=E2=80=9CMaster Key=E2=80=9D; I haven=E2=80=99t done this yet hence why =
I=E2=80=99m still using the MEK term=E2=80=A6


> This process for migrating a configuration to a new server would also =
work for replacing the root key on a server without requiring =
re-encrypting all the keystore's encrypted keys.  (Mind you, I don't =
know how a non-builtin, non-hidden root key is configured from a cold =
start.)

Yes.


> The text calls the key a "shared root key" - but the use in this =
process of migrating a configuration does not require that the key be =
shared other than between the "first" and "second" servers.  I don't see =
that there's any reason to share the "shared root key" more widely; each =
migration between two servers could use a different "shared root key".

Agreed.


> "This shared root key would only need to be known to an organization's =
crypto officer." -- until it is decrypted in a server for use in =
encrypting and decrypting local keys, right?  I don't know how YANG =
implementations hold the root keys that are constantly in use but =
hopefully access is carefully controlled.

To your question, right, only the crypto officer and then later the =
device itself should ever know the key.

Regarding the second part of your comment, please note that the YANG =
model isn=E2=80=99t forcing any behavior.  =46rom my previous comments =
above, I think you see that the draft =E2=80=9Crecommends=E2=80=9D =
certain behaviors but, otherwise, enables implementations do present an =
interface reflecting a device=E2=80=99s internal behavior.


> A key common to all servers in an operational environment has been =
found to be unwise because an exposure at one server has a global =
impact.  The text on p 36 says "The crypto officer can then safely =
handoff the encrypted shared key to other administrators responsible for =
server installations, including migrations." but that should be taken as =
a handoff as necessary at each occasion, not taken as a handoff to all =
other servers jointly, at the same time.

Agreed.  I think that it understood that the shared KEK would be =
encrypted for the minimal subset of devices=E2=80=A6presumably just a =
single failover device but, perhaps, a set of devices constituting a =
cluster.


> Section 5.2 p38
>=20
> This section points to the NETCONF protocol's support for mutual =
authentication, but in this particular case, I believe that the =
mandatory support for confidentiality is very important and should be =
mentioned, in particular for the configuration of cleartext keys.

Please be aware that this section is following (roughly) the template =
defined here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407.html#section-3.7.1 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407.html#section-3.7.1>.  This template =
ware reviewed by previous Security Area ADs .

FWIW, the first paragraph says =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 Both of these =
protocols have mandatory-to-implement secure transport layers (e.g., =
SSH, TLS) with mutual authentication.=E2=80=9D, so =E2=80=9Cconfidentialit=
y isn=E2=80=99t completely unstated=E2=80=A6.

What text would you like to see added here?


> I had one puzzle I could never figure out - why the keystore-reference =
for the grouping local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-with-certs-grouping =
(Sect 2.1.3.5) is an asymmetric-key-ref type.  Other uses of =
asymmetric-key-ref are consistent with it being a reference to a key =
only, but here I expected the reference would be to a structure that =
contains the key and its associated certs.  The descriptions in the Sect =
2.3 Yang Module p29 says the grouping contains the cert and its keys.

Good catch.  Yes, there is some wonkiness here.  (Continued in next =
comment)

> Is the asymmetric-key-ref in some way useable as both a reference to =
an asymmetric key and an asymmetric key and its associated certs?

Indeed.  The reality is that the Keystore only supports the notion of =
keys that may have associated certificates.  In all cases, the =
=E2=80=9Clocal=E2=80=9D definition is as described, but sometimes the =
=E2=80=9Ckeystore=E2=80=9D definition is a bit off.  =20

The only perfect* mapping is the =
=E2=80=9Clocal-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-with-certs-grouping=E2=80=9D =
grouping, as that is exactly what the Keystore has in it. =20

The "local-or-keystore-end-entity-cert-with-key-grouping=E2=80=9D isn't =
that bad either, as it points to specific cert, which is under a =
key=E2=80=A6the only wonkiness is that the key may have other certs =
under it too, but it isn=E2=80=99t a big deal. =20

The "local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-grouping=E2=80=9D is the worst =
mapping because, while it does point to a key, the key may have certs =
under it.  The expectation is that this won=E2=80=99t be a problem in =
context because the code is, presumably, only interested in the key (not =
the certs), as that is exactly all the code would get if the =E2=80=9Cloca=
l=E2=80=9D definition is used.


> At first I thought the "associated certs" in the groupings were the =
certificate chain certs - the subject cert, the issuer cert, etc.  I am =
not sure they are - might they be many certificates for the same public =
key, perhaps for different algorithms?  I think that should be =
explained.

Each =E2=80=9Ccertificate=E2=80=9D is actually the "end-entity-cert-cms" =
CMS structure defined in the =E2=80=9Ccrypto-types=E2=80=9D draft.  Each =
CMS MAY contain a chain of certs for that end-entity =E2=80=9Ccertificate=E2=
=80=9D, in quotes because the =E2=80=9Ccertificate=E2=80=9D can also =
include associated issuer certs, as needed for the context.

Therefore, that a key may have a multiplicity of associated certs (i.e. =
CMSs) is to support things such as: different algorithms, different =
Subject/SAN, different Issuers, etc.  Makes sense.

Happy to make things more clear, can you propose the text you=E2=80=99d =
like to see?




> Page-by-page comments and nits:
> -------------------------------
>=20
> Section 1 p 3
>=20
>  there are groupings that defined enabling a key to be either
>=20
> Did you mean the past tense here?  Or did you mean "define"?

Fixed =E2=80=94> "define".

> Section 1.1 p 4
>=20
> In the diagram, what is the meaning of the lines - what relationshiop =
do they represent - e.g., "refers to", "uses", "augments", something =
else?

"The relationship between=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94> "The normative dependency =
relationship between"


> It looks like netconf-client-server has no relationship (whatever =
"relationship" is) to http-client-server, restconf-client-sever has no =
relationship to ssh-client-server, and http-client-server has no =
relationship to keystore or truststore.  Is that all correct?

Yes.  NETCONF doesn=E2=80=99t have an HTTP-based transport.  RESTCONF =
doesn=E2=80=99t have an SSH-based transport.  HTTP may be =E2=80=9Cmixed-i=
n=E2=80=9D with TLS to created a protocol stack, but doesn=E2=80=99t =
itself depend on TLS.


> Section 1.3 p 5
>=20
>  This document in compliant with Network Management Datastore
>  Architecture (NMDA) [RFC8342].
>=20
> RFC8342 is listed in the informative section - what does it mean to be =
compliant with an informative reference?

r/in compliant/is compliant/

This text is via https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.5.   It =
means that the data model has been developed assuming that there exists =
dedicated <operational> datastore that contains the =E2=80=9Coperational=E2=
=80=9D value for the system as a superset of configured nodes. =20


>=20
>  [Std-802.1AR-2009] certificate) are expected to appear in
>  <operational>
>=20
> I did not catch that the term <operational> was part of R%FC8342, and =
went looking for a reference.  I found it in many places, like RFC6241.  =
For those just that unobservant, could you put a citation here to =
RFC8342, which I think is the proper reference for that term.  Note: =
<running> appears later, and a citation to RFC8342 is probably proper =
there as well.  Yes, I know, probably about as necessary as a reference =
to "packet", but it would have spared me, maybe other non-Yang clueful =
folk will be reading this also.

Quite right - I added a =E2=80=9CTerminology=E2=80=9D section with =
references for "<running>=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9C<operational>=E2=80=9D =
(RFC 8342), as well as =E2=80=9Cclient" and =E2=80=9Cserver=E2=80=9D =
(RFC 6241).



> Section 2 p 5
>=20
>  This section defines a YANG 1.1 [RFC7950] module that defines a
>  "keystore"
>=20
> Should that be "ietf-keystore"?  Or do you mean keystore in a general =
sense, in which case I think the quote marks make it look like a name, =
not a general sense.  (I went looking for a definition of a "keystore", =
but that could just be me.)

Part of the issue is that the term =E2=80=9Ckeystore" isn=E2=80=99t =
defined anywhere. I just added the following in the new =
=E2=80=9CTerminology=E2=80=9D section:

	 The term "keystore" is defined in this draft as a mechanism
         that intends safeguard secrets placed into it for protection.

That said, the issue with the paragraph you cite is worse than you point =
out, as it cites some but not all notable aspects about the =
ietf-keystore module.  I just rewrote that paragraph to a simpler =
description of the subsections to come.

OLD:
         This section defines a YANG 1.1 <xref target=3D"RFC7950"/> =
module
         that defines a "keystore" and groupings supporting downstream
         modules to reference the keystore or have locally-defined =
definitions.

NEW:
         This section defines a YANG 1.1 <xref target=3D"RFC7950"/> =
module
          called "ietf-keystore".  A high-level overview of the module =
is provided in
          <xref target=3D"overview"/>. Examples illustatrating the =
module's use=20
          are provided in <xref target=3D"examples">Examples</xref>. The =
YANG
          module itself is defined in <xref =
target=3D"keystore-yang-module"/>.





> Section 2.1.1.  p6
>=20
>  The following diagram lists all the "feature" statements defined in
>=20
> Everywhere beyond this page it says "tree diagram".  RFC8340 is cited =
in Section 2.1.3.1, but this is the first use (unless I'm wrong about =
the "tree diagram"), so the citation should go here.
>=20
>  The following diagram lists the "typedef" statements defined in the
>  The following diagram lists all the "grouping" statements defined in
>=20
> diagram -> "tree diagram"

The thing that you don=E2=80=99t know is that those diagrams (plus =
another that lists the =E2=80=9Cgroupings=E2=80=9D defined in the =
document) are NOT RFC8340 tree diagrams, they are using a format I made =
up that happens to look like the RFC 8340 diagrams. =20

I recommend the NETMOD WG consider an rfc8340-bis to define the new tree =
diagram outputs for a list of features, a list of typedefs, and a list =
of groupings.

In the meanwhile, I updated this draft to explicitly state that =
particular diagrams are not tree diagrams as follows:

      |  The diagram above uses syntax that is similar to but not
      |  defined in [RFC8340].



> Section 2.1.3.3 - 2.1.3.6:
>=20
> " offer an option as to if an asymmetric key is defined" - personally, =
I would say "as to whether".  I don't know if the RFC-Editor (and rfc =
style guide) care.

Fixed =E2=80=94> replaced all "as to if=E2=80=9D strings to =E2=80=9Cfor =
whether=E2=80=9D - better?


> "augmented in if, e.g.," - I actually thought this was an editing =
error, until heard "augment in" used as a word in the IETF session.  Web =
search shows "augment in" is a term of art in netconf!  But some uses =
add a hyphen, which I think is a good idea.

Added to the new =E2=80=9CTerminology=E2=80=9D section:

=E2=80=9C=E2=80=9D=E2=80=9D
The sentence fragments "augmented" and "augmented in" are used herein as =
the verbified form of the "augment" statement defined in <relref =
section=3D"7.17" target=3D"RFC7950"/>.
=E2=80=9C"=E2=80=9D



>     reference a asymmetric key in an alternate location.
>=20
> a asymmetric -> an asymmetric.  A global change might be good, as well =
as changing "an symmetric" to "a symmetric".

Both fixed - thanks!


> Section 2.1.3.4
>=20
>  *  For the "local-definition" option, the defintion uses the
>     "asymmetric-key-pair-grouping" grouping discussed in
>     Section 2.1.3.4 of [I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types].
>=20
> It looks to me like it is actually Section 2.1.4.4 of =
[I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types].

Fixed!  =E2=80=9C2.1.3.4=E2=80=9D -> =E2=80=9C2.1.4.5"

This is one issue with the new =E2=80=9Crelref=E2=80=9D element in the =
xml2rfc v3 syntax, a section number (e.g., =E2=80=9C2.1.3.4=E2=80=9D) =
has to be hardcoded, there=E2=80=99s no option to use the =E2=80=9Canchor=E2=
=80=9D value, so misalignments may occur unknowingly.



> Section 2.1.3.7 p 11
>=20
>  *  The "keystore-grouping" grouping is defines a keystore instance as
>=20
> "is defines" -> "defines"

Fixed


>  *  For asymmetric keys, each "asymmetric-key" uses the "asymmetric-
>     key-pair-with-certs-grouping" grouping discussed Section 2.1.3.10
>     of [I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types].
>=20
> "discussed" -> "discussed in"

Quite right, and I found another like it, fixed both.


> Why do none of the asymmetric keys here use a grouping that is the key =
only, like the ct:asymmetric-key-pair-grouping used in Sectoin 2.1.3.4 =
of this document (discussed in 2.1.4.4 of =
[I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types]).
>=20
>       |     |     +--rw encrypted-private-key
>       |     |        +--rw encrypted-by
>       |     |        |  +--rw (encrypted-by-choice)
>       |     |        |     +--:(symmetric-key-ref)
>       |     |        |     |  +--rw symmetric-key-ref?    leafref
>       |     |        |     +--:(asymmetric-key-ref)
>       |     |        |        +--rw asymmetric-key-ref?   leafref

The section you quoted is for the "encrypted-private-key=E2=80=9D case =
of a =E2=80=9Cchoice" statement called "private-key-type=E2=80=9D.  This =
=E2=80=9Cchoice=E2=80=9D also supports "cleartext-private-key=E2=80=9D, =
that is the raw key only, is that what you mean?


> Section 2.2.1 p 13
>=20
>  The following example illustrates keys in <running>.
>=20
> Like I said before, maybe a citation of RFC8340 here.

The new Terminology section defines =E2=80=9C<running>" (and =
=E2=80=9C<operational>) pointing to RFC8342 (NMDA).  [PS: RFC 8340 is =
for =E2=80=9CTree Diagrams=E2=80=9D]


> Section 2.2.3 p 17 has the phrase "following non-normative ".  Does =
that belong here?  Or because this is XML, it can not be confused to be =
a normantive Yang module?

It was/is a little bit of everything   \_o_/

I created a new introduction:

	<t>These examples assume the existence of an example
	 module called "ex-keystore-usage=E2=80=9D having the namespace
	 "http://example.com/ns/example-keystore-usage".</t>

And then changed the line as follows:

OLD:
            <t>The following non-normative module is defined to =
illustrate these
              groupings:</t>
NEW:
            <t>Following is the "ex-keystore-usage" module's YANG =
definition:=20



>       <symmetric-key>
> 	      <encrypted-by>
>               <asymmetric-key-ref>hidden-asymmetric-key</asymmetric-k\
>  ey-ref>
>             </encrypted-by>
>=20
> The "hidden-asymmetric-key" key appears later in the asymmetric-keys =
part of the keystore example on p15.  I don't know how to prevent that =
forward sort of reference for the readers, or if it is a problem.

This is not a problem, as ordering doesn=E2=80=99t matter with =
YANG-defined models. =20


> Section 2.2.3 p 18
>=20
>      list end-entity-cert-with-key {
>        key name;
>        ...
>        uses ks:local-or-keystore-end-entity-cert-with-key-grouping;
>        description
>          "An end-entity certificate, and its associated private key,
>           that may be configured locally or be a reference to a
>           specific certificate (and its associated private key) in
>           the keystore.";
>=20
> You can't rely on descriptions, but I see no explicit reference to the =
private key in that end-entity cert grouping.  That grouping is defined =
in Section 2.1.3.6 p 9, and the keystore-reference is an =
asymmetric-key-certificate-ref-grouping.  That grouping has an =
asymmetric-key-ref and a cert.  The description above says "and its =
associated private key".  So is the asymmetric-key-ref a ref to the =
private key or to a key pair?

Fixed.  =E2=80=9Cassociated private key=E2=80=9D -> "associated =
asymmetric key"

        "An end-entity certificate and its associated asymmetric
         key, that may be configured locally or be a reference
         to another certificate (and its associated asymmetric
         key) in the keystore.=E2=80=9D;



> Section 2.3 p 25
>=20
>    typedef symmetric-key-ref {
>      type leafref {
>        path "/ks:keystore/ks:symmetric-keys/ks:symmetric-key"
>           + "/ks:name";
>      }
>=20
> Does default-deny-write belong here, or added each time an item is =
defined of this type?

No, because it is a typedef, and typedefs don=E2=80=99t support =
extensions (search RFC 7950 for "typedef-stmt=E2=80=9D and =
"extension-stmt=E2=80=9D).


> Section 2.3 p 26
>=20
>        case asymmetric-key-ref {
>          leaf asymmetric-key-ref {
>            type leafref {
>              path "/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/"
>                   + "ks:asymmetric-key/ks:name";
>            }
>            description
>             "Identifies the asymmetric key used to encrypt this key.";
>          }
>=20
> (a) "the asymmetric key used to encrypt" - the public key part is used =
to encrypt, so is the asymmetric key just the public key or a key-pair =
where the appropriate part of the key-pair is used according to context?

OLD:
            "Identifies the asymmetric key used to encrypt this key.";
NEW:
           "Identifies the asymmetric key whose public key
            encrypted the associated key.";


> (b) "encrypt this key" - The "this key" part is appropriate if the =
assymmetric-key-ref is being used in an encrypted-by-choice structure, =
but there are lots of places in this text where the type is not in such =
a structure.  Is it the case that the uses always resolve to be =
encrypting a key?

Right, per above, now "the associated key=E2=80=9D and the =
=E2=80=9Cdescription" statement for "encrypted-by-choice-grouping=E2=80=9D=
 now says:

      "A grouping that defines a choice that can be augmented into
       the 'encrypted-by' node presented by the 'symmetric-key-grouping'
       and the 'asymmetric-key-pair-grouping' groupings defined in
       RFC AAAA.=E2=80=9D;

Indicating that the =E2=80=9Cassociated key=E2=80=9D is defined in those =
two groupings.  Good enough?


> (c) "encrypt" - Is it always the case that asymmetric keys in the =
keystore will be used to encrypt something?  There is no expectation =
that the asymmetric key-pair will be used to sign something?

An asymmetric-key may be used to sign something, but this module has no =
need to do that.  For instance, the module doesn=E2=80=99t support the =
notion of a =E2=80=9Csigned key=E2=80=9D (a la =E2=80=9Cencrypted =
key=E2=80=9D), beyond its support for certificates.  This doesn=E2=80=99t =
preclude a consuming application from using an asymmetric key to sign =
data if needed.


> Section 2.3 p27
>=20
>      description
>        "A grouping that expands to allow the symmetric key to be
>         either stored locally, within the using data model, or be
>         a reference to a symmetric key stored in the Keystore.";
>=20
> The following is wordsmithing the description text, so a =
very-nitty-nit.
>=20
> ", or be" -> ", or"  (the "be" is before the "either", don't need it)
>=20
> A reader might be confused as to whether the disjunction was two =
disjuncts or three.

Fixed, in all four places where =E2=80=9Cor be=E2=80=9D was being used.


> I might suggest using "i.e., within the using data store".  Maybe also
> move the "be" inside the "either or" for scoping
>        "A grouping that expands to allow the symmetric key to either
>         be stored locally, i.e., within the using data model, or be
>         a reference to a symmetric key stored in the Keystore.";

Added =E2=80=9Ci.e.,=E2=80=9D

> The groupings in this section have a descriptoin of the grouping, a =
description of the key case and a description of the choice.  I thought =
it worked better to place the description of the choice closer to the =
"choice local or keystore" rather than at the end.

Moved all =E2=80=9Cchoice=E2=80=9D statement descriptions be before the =
=E2=80=9Ccase=E2=80=9D statements.


> And finally. Descriptions very frequently (always?) conclude with a =
"." but they are very frequently not sentences, so the "." is not =
necessary.  I do not know if the RFC-Editor or the Style manual cares.

The descriptions should be sentences.  I found only two instances that =
were missing an opening article (=E2=80=98A=E2=80=99), which gave the =
appearance of not being a sentence=E2=80=A6but you said there were =
=E2=80=9Cmany"?


> Section 2.3 p 28
>=20
>    grouping local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-with-certs-grouping
>    ...
>       case keystore {
>          if-feature "keystore-supported";
>          leaf keystore-reference {
>            type ks:asymmetric-key-ref;
>            description
>              "A reference to an asymmetric-key (and all of its
>               associated certificates) in the Keystore.";
>=20
> An example of my puzzle about the =
local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-with-certs-grouping keystore-reference. =
 How are the certs to be found if the keystore-reference is to the =
asymmetric key only?  Or must the asymmetric-key-ref sometimes point =
just to a key and sometimes to a key+certs, as needed?

An asymmetric key "in the Keystore=E2=80=9D always allows certs to be =
associated.  I understand that this isn=E2=80=99t true for asymmetric =
keys in general.



> Section 3 p 31
>=20
>  In some implementations, a server may support built-in keys.  Built-
>  in built-in keys
>=20
> "Built-in built-in" =3D> "Built-in"

Fixed - redundancy removed.


> Section 3 p 32
>=20
>  In order for the built-in keys (and/or their associated built-in
>  certificates) to be referenced by configuration, the referenced keys
>  MUST first be copied into <running>. The keys SHOULD be copied into
>  <running> using the same "key" values, so that the server can bind
>  the references to the built-in entries.
>=20
>  Built-in "hidden" keys cannot be copied into other parts of the
>  configuration because their private parts are hidden, and therefore
>  impossible to replicate.
>=20
> Section 4 p34 says built-in keys MUST be hidden.  So they must be =
copied to <running> but they can't be copied? Huh?
>=20

OLD:
        <t>Built-in "hidden" keys cannot be copied into other parts of =
the=20
          configuration because their private parts are hidden, and =
therefore
          impossible to replicate.  Built-in "encrypted" keys MAY be =
copied
          into other parts of the configuration so long as they maintain =
their
          reference to the other built-in key that encrypted them.</t>
NEW:
        <t>In addition to copying keys into the Keystore in =
&lt;running&gt;,=20
          cleartext and encrypted keys may be copied into other parts of=20=

          configuration, but they will lose their connection to having =
been
          a built-in value.  Note that hidden keys cannot be copied into
          other parts of the configuration because doing would lose the =
key's
          connection to the built-in key, where the key's secret value =
is=20
          stored.  Built-in "encrypted" keys MAY be copied into other =
parts=20
          of the configuration so long as the reference to the other =
built-in=20
          key that encrypted them is maintained.</t>



> The keys SHOULD be copied into
>  <running> using the same "key" values, so that the server can bind
>  the references to the built-in entries.
>=20
> The word "key" is overloaded in this document, like "The key =
characteristic of the built-in keys" and "Key Words".  Here, the =
reference is surely to a required part of the "list" syntax, so no way =
to use a different word.  Maybe say 'the same list "key" values' or 'the =
same values for the list "key" field/node'.

Changed "Key characteristic" to "primary characteristic=E2=80=9D.

"Key words=E2=80=9D is RFC 2119 language that cannot be altered.

OLD:
          The keys SHOULD be copied into
          <running> using the same "key" values, so that the server can =
bind
          the references to the built-in entries.
NEW:
          The keys SHOULD be copied
          into &lt;running&gt; using the same value for the list's "key"=20=

          substatement, so that the server can bind the references to =
the
          built-in entries.


>   	       	  	     Built-in "encrypted" keys MAY be copied
>  into other parts of the configuration so long as they maintain their
>  reference to the other built-in key that encrypted them.
>=20
> (a) Section 4 p34 says "built-in keys MUST be hidden", so is there a =
way the hidden built-in keys can be encrypted keys?

Under the hood, it is possible that a hidden key is encrypted, but if it =
is, that information would be hidden too ;)


> (b) So encrypted built-in keys must always be encrypted by other =
built-in keys?  Is there a way to represent that in the data model?  (I =
explored this before.)
>=20
>  <running> MAY be a subset of the built-in keys define in =
<operational>
>=20
> "define" -> "defined"

FIXED.



>  Only the referenced keys need to be copied; that is, the keys in
>  <running> MAY be a subset of the built-in keys define in
>  <operational>.  No keys may be added or changed (with exception to
>  associating additional certificates to a built-in key); that is, the
>  keys in <running> MUST be a subset (which includes the whole of the
>  set) of the built-in keys define in <operational>.
>=20
> I don't understatnd this part.  First it says
>=20
> "keys in <running> MAY be a subset of the built-in keys define in =
<operational>"
>=20
> and then
>=20
> "keys in <running> MUST be a subset ... of the built-in keys define in =
<operational>".
>=20
> That is inconsistent, is it intended?
>=20
> Does the last sentence mean that if there are built-in keys, no other =
keys may be added to the keystore?  I don't know what is intended here.

Removed the last part: i.e., =E2=80=9Cthe keys in <running> MUST be a =
subset (which includes the whole of the set) of the built-in keys define =
in <operational>."

NEW:
        <t>Only the referenced keys need to be copied; that is, the keys
          in &lt;running&gt; MAY be a subset, including the whole of the =
set,=20
          of the built-in keys defined in &lt;operational&gt;.</t> =20
        <t>No new built-in keys may be added nor existing built-in =
changed,=20
          with exception to associating additional certificates to an=20
          existing built-in key.</t>


> About "exception to" - I use "exeption to <rule>" and "exception for =
<a special case>".  I don't know if the RFC-Editor or the Style manual =
cares.

=E2=80=9Cexception to=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94> =E2=80=9Cexception for=E2=80=9D


> Section 4.1 p34
>=20
>  not support hidden keys, then the private data part of key MUST be=20
>=20
> "of key" -> "of the root key"

This sentence no longer exists after the rewrite of the section =
addressing the comment from Magnus.


> Section 4.1 p35
>=20
>              If the hidden root key is asymmetric, then the server
>  SHOULD provide APIs enabling other keys to be both generated and
>  encrypted by it
>=20
> The "both generated and encrypted by it" sounds like keys are being =
generated by the root key.  I don't think that's generally true.  =
Section 4.2 separates key generation and key encryption steps.  I think =
this should be clearer.
>=20
> (The mention of other crypto services moved to area before nits.)

After addressing the comment from Magnus, the new text is:

          <t>Implementations SHOULD provide an API that simultaneously =
generates
            and encrypts a key (symmetric or asymmetric) using a KEK.  =
Thusly
            newly generated key cleartext values are never known to the
            administrators generating the keys.</t>

Better?


> Section 4.2 p35
>=20
> (A discussion of issues, not nits, was moved to area before nits.)
>=20
> Section 4.3 p35
>=20
> (A discussion of issues, not nits, was moved to area before nits.) =20
>=20
> Section 5.2 p38
>=20
> (A discussion of issues, not nits, was moved to area before nits.)

Okay.




>     |  Please be aware that this module uses the "key" and "private-
>     |  key" nodes from the "ietf-crypto-types" module
>     |  [I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types], where said nodes have the NACM
>     |  extension "default-deny-all" set, thus preventing unrestricted
>     |  read-access to the cleartext key values.
>=20
> This text missed the change A.19 to add a "cleartext" prefix as in =
ietf-netconf-crypto-types.  The "cleartext" prefix is present in the =
modules, tree-diagrams, XML, etc., but the references in text here did =
not change.  (Actually, I see several examples in the text in =
ietf-netconf-crypto-types where the change was not made, e.g. p 9 says  =
'-  The "key" node can encode any plain-text key value.' where the =
preceding tree diagram has a node named "cleartext-key" and older =
versions said "key".)  I appreciate the discussion of the =
default-deny-all in Section 3.5 p42 of ietf-netconf-crypto-types and I =
think that a citation here would be warranted and useful.

Fixed: prefixed =E2=80=9Ccleartext-=E2=80=9C

NEW:
            <t>Please be aware that this module uses the "cleartext-key" =
and=20
              "cleartext-private-key" nodes from the "ietf-crypto-types" =
module=20
              <xref target=3D"I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types"/>, where =
said nodes
              have the NACM extension "default-deny-all" set, thus =
preventing
              uncontrolled read-access to the cleartext key values.</t>

Also fixed a number of missing =E2=80=9Ccleartext-=E2=80=9C prefixes in =
the crypto-types draft.


> BTW.  I don't know the NACM well but could it be said that the =
default-deny-all prevents uncontrolled access, but does not necessarily =
prevent unrestricted access, because a present but careless access =
control might not actually restrict access?

Fixed.  See =E2=80=9Cuncontrolled=E2=80=9D the the NEW above.


> Section 6.2 p 39
>=20
> "the the" -> "the"

Fixed (in other documents also) - thanks!

> Section 7.2 p40
>=20
> The list of Informative References includes:
>=20
>  [I-D.ietf-netconf-keystore]
>             Watsen, K., "A YANG Data Model for a Keystore", Work in
>             Progress, Internet-Draft, draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-17,
>             20 May 2020, <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-
>             netconf-keystore-17>.
>=20
> Isn't this a self reference to an earlier version?
>=20
> Note: ID nits gives 11 warnings, but all are due to references to =
older versions of existing drafts or to future versions not yet =
published.  The latter case seems to be wrong, and the warning usually =
notes
>    (However, the state information for draft-ietf-netconf-keystore is =
not
>    up-to-date.  The last update was unsuccessful)
>=20
> I have no idea what that means.  The warnings are consistent, so may =
be something to watch.

Generally speaking, a document should not reference itself!  The =
self-reference in this document is coming from Section 1.1 (Relation to =
other RFCs).  The XML feeding this section is from a common snippet of =
xml2rfc XML that is stitched into the same spot for each of the =
documents in the collection of RFCs-to-be, per the "Relation to other =
RFCs=E2=80=9D section.   My choices are:

1) Copy-paste the common-text into each document and then customize it =
by converting the self-reference to something like =E2=80=9C<this =
document>=E2=80=9D, and the remove the reference from the "Informative =
References=E2=80=9D section.

or

2) Add an RFC-editor note requesting that customization be made for each =
document in the collection.

Thoughts?


K.

>=20
> =E2=80=94Sandy
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_0348A326-1A9C-4C92-A178-9883E263A74F
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">[+netconf =
(for visibility) and -keystore.authors (since its just me)]</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi =
Sandy,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This is a =
massive review. &nbsp;Thank you for that, but it demands a massive =
response=E2=80=A6I hope you=E2=80=99re ready for it &nbsp;;)</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Before jumping in, I =
want to clarify something that I=E2=80=99ll also make a point to add to =
the Introduction section, which is that the ietf-keystore YANG module =
defines a configuration model supporting existing practices; it does not =
intend to define new ways for doing things. &nbsp;For instance, the =
sections regarding built-in keys, hidden keys, key-encryption keys, and =
master keys all attempt to support existing practices. &nbsp;The point =
being that, in thinking about what these sections are saying, trust that =
this draft isn=E2=80=99t defining new behavior, and folk's experience =
with systems is the best guide.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Also, note that I did update Section 4 =
(<font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">Encrypting Keys in Configuration) =
per Magnus=E2=80=99s review. &nbsp;That update was sent to the SecDir =
list on the 10th (with GitHub commit here [1]). &nbsp;While the section =
was effectively&nbsp;entirely rewritten, the update&nbsp;essentially =
accomplishes just one thing, which is the&nbsp;swap a couple terms as =
follows: r/root key/master key/ and r/shared root =
key/key&nbsp;encryption key/. &nbsp;Your review&nbsp;precedes this =
update, but my&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">responses below will, when appropriate, reflect the current =
terms.</span></font></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">[1]&nbsp;</span></font><a =
href=3D"https://github.com/netconf-wg/keystore/commit/5b3b9f3db0d6b7027ddf=
5f0e983ab958e8802251" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/netconf-wg/keystore/commit/5b3b9f3db0d6b7027=
ddf5f0e983ab958e8802251</a></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D"">PS: I just updated all&nbsp;the drafts with the updates from =
this email. &nbsp;The bad news is that the&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Datatracker is still =
using the *previous* draft version for hyperlinks, so be sure to =
manually increment whenever opening a referenced =
document.</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">Thanks,</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">Kent</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000"=
 class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Aug 12, 2020, at 9:10 AM, Sandra Murphy =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sandy@tislabs.com" =
class=3D"">sandy@tislabs.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">This =
is a requested SECDIR early review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-19, =
not an IETF Last Call review.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I have =
reviewed this document as an early review assigned by the security =
directorate, as part of the directorate's ongoing effort to review =
documents headed eventually to the IESG. &nbsp;Document editors and WG =
chairs should treat these comments just like any other comments.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I am a neophyte at Yang so any comments I make =
here should be understood with that in mind. &nbsp;(The recent mpls and =
netconf discussion of the MPLS module reuse of an RPC and the difference =
between "destination address" and "local label" have further impressed =
upon me just how much I do not know about YANG.)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Outline of this review is:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">News =
of draft status<br class=3D"">Summary of the draft<br class=3D"">General =
and issue comments<br class=3D"">Page-by-page comments and nits<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">News of draft status:<br =
class=3D"">---------------------<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">This =
document was in WGLC when assigned and it appears that the WGLC has not =
yet been decided.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">In the netconf session at =
IETF108, the wg discussed the need for a raw password feature, which =
might end up as a new grouping being added to the =
draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types and therefore might induce changes to =
this draft as well.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>True, it was discussed @108, but that change in =
crypto-types will not affect this draft (however, it will affect the =
tcp-client-server, ssh-client-server, and http-client-server =
drafts)</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Summary of the =
draft:<br class=3D"">---------------------<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The draft abstract says:<br class=3D""> &nbsp;This document =
defines a YANG 1.1 module called "ietf-keystore" that<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;enables centralized configuration of both symmetric and =
asymmetric<br class=3D""> &nbsp;keys.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Keys =
may be symmetric or asymmetric, and maybe be of types "cleartext", =
"hidden" (as in a TPM), or "encrypted". Keys can be configured locally =
(which means within the data model) or as a reference to a keystore =
item. &nbsp;One server might have multiple keystores in use at any one =
time.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The document defines groupings that =
might prove useful for other YANG modules that import this one.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">The document describes the data model for the =
keystore and provides many examples. &nbsp;The descriptions of the data =
model and examples are presented in different modes as you read through =
the document, in tree diagrams, XML, and text that (surely?) is YANG (I =
think). &nbsp;I believe the YANG text is authoritative.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>True, =
the YANG module in Section 2.3 is the&nbsp;raison d=E2=80=99=C3=AAtre =
for the draft.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">For other readers, here's the sequence of =
description modes.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Section 2.1 Mostly tree =
diagram descriptions of the groupings defined in this document.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Section 2.2.1-2.2.2 Examples (Keystore =
Instance and Cert Expiration) given in XML.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Section 2.2.3 A module, containing those groupings of Section =
2.1 whose titles' prefixes are "local-or-keystore-", is described in =
what I believe would be called YANG (p16-18) and then in a tree diagram =
(p19-23).<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Section 2.3 This section =
describes what I believe to be the normative Yang module text.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Yes, =
the YANG module in 2.3 is the normative module text for the =
draft.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">General and issue comments:<br =
class=3D"">---------------------------<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">This =
document is very well written. &nbsp;The examples were very helpful, =
particularly to this reader who was unfamiliar with Yang. &nbsp;I can't =
imagine the patience and care it took to keep so many descriptions in =
close alignment.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>My secret is:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>1)=
 maintain all YANG modules and examples a stand-alone =
files.</div><div>2) each time building the draft (`make clean; make`), =
dynamically:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; a) validate all YANG =
modules</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; b) validate all examples against =
the YANG modules</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; c) generate all tree =
diagrams</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d) stitch tree-diagrams, =
examples, and YANG modules into an uber xml2rfc file</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>This way, everything stays connected and =
up-to-date. &nbsp;I takes effort to set up, but it pays for itself over =
time (not only for the author, but also for WG participants who might =
otherwise discover anomalies that could=E2=80=99ve been =
caught).</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">The document describes two new typedefs: asymmetric-key-ref =
and symmetric-key-ref. &nbsp;Those typedefs are never further explained. =
&nbsp;I believe (based only on the string "ref" in the name and usage as =
"keystore-reference") that these are intended to be references to named =
items in other parts of the keystore which themselves contain keys. =
&nbsp;(Sheesh it takes a lot of words!) And I hope/believe that the =
asymmetric-key-ref is to a structure that contains a key-pair.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Yes, =
you got it.&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>FWIW, Section =
2.1.2 (Typedefs) says: "The leafrefs refer to symmetric and asymmetric =
keys in the keystore. &nbsp;These typedefs are provided primarily as an =
aid to downstream modules that import the "ietf-keystore" module.=E2=80=9D=
 &nbsp; Not good enough?</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">The text typically says "asymmetric key" without =
distinguishing whether it is talking about the public key, the private =
key, or a key-pair. &nbsp;Presumably "asymmetric key" means a key-pair =
and the implementations of operations know from context which key in the =
key-pair is needed.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Yes, that is what is intended. &nbsp;Is that =
nomenclature okay or should =E2=80=9Ckey-pair=E2=80=9D be postpended =
throughout?</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>In contrast, note that =
when referring to asymmetric key halfs, the text attempts to always call =
that it out, e.g., =E2=80=9Cthe public half of the asymmetric =
key=E2=80=9D.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">I am not familiar with the Yang system, so I wonder if there =
is any mechanism in Yang's use to check if the assumptions of the data =
model are followed. &nbsp;(1) If an asymmetric key is configured with a =
public key and a private key that are not a key-pair, where is that =
caught? &nbsp;(2) If an asymmetric key and an associated cert are =
configured, but the public key part of the structure is not the public =
key mentioned in the cert, where is that caught? &nbsp;(3) If the data =
model says that a component is an asymmetric-key-ref, but the de-ref'd =
value is not an asymmetric key (key type?), where is that caught, like =
maybe when the value is stored in the keystore? &nbsp;(Do the questions =
even make sense?)<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Yes, the questions (now numbered 1-3) make =
sense.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>For #1) I just updated the =
=E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D for the =
"&nbsp;asymmetric-key-pair-grouping=E2=80=9D in the =
"ietf-crypto-types=E2=80=9D module (in =
draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types):</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>OLD:</div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;"A private key =
and its associated public key.";<br class=3D""><div style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);">NEW:</div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">"A =
private key and its associated public key.</span><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; I</span><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">mplementations</span></div><div><div><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;SHOULD ensure that the two keys =
are a matching pair.=E2=80=9D<br class=3D""></font><br =
class=3D""></div><div>[Note: =E2=80=9CSHOULD=E2=80=9D is used instead of =
=E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D because the fallback is to simply *trust* that =
the clients never configure mismatched values.]</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>For #2) Already the description statements for =
various groupings in the&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">"ietf-crypto-types=E2=80=9D module have =
suitable statements:</span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;grouping&nbsp;end-entity-cert-grouping&nbsp;{<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;description<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;"An end entity certificate, and a notification =
for&nbsp;when<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;it is about to =
(or already has) expire.&nbsp;&nbsp;Implementations<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;SHOULD assert that, where used, the end =
entity&nbsp;certificate<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;contains the expected public key.=E2=80=9D;</font></div><div><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&lt;snip/&gt;</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
}</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;grouping&nbsp;asymmetric-key-pair-with-cert-groupin=
g&nbsp;{<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;description<br class=3D"">&nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;"A private/public key pair and an =
associated&nbsp;certificate.<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;Implementations SHOULD assert that certificates&nbsp;contain<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the matching public =
key.=E2=80=9D;</font></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&lt;snip/&gt;</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
}<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font>&nbsp;&nbsp;grouping&nbsp;asymmetric-key-pair-with-certs=
-grouping&nbsp;{<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;description<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;"A private/public key pair and =
associated&nbsp;certificates.<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;Implementations SHOULD assert that certificates&nbsp;contain<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the matching public =
key.=E2=80=9D;</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);"><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&lt;snip/&gt;</font></div><div>&nbsp; }<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>For #3) There are three =
parts to this one. &nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>3a) First, =
when configuring a key into the Keystore, I made the following =
adjustments:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>For =
"symmetric-key-grouping=E2=80=9D:</div><div>&nbsp; OLD:</div><div>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;description<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;"Identifies the symmetric key's format.=E2=80=9D;</div><div>&n=
bsp; NEW:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;description<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;"Identifies the symmetric =
key's format.&nbsp;&nbsp;Implementations<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;SHOULD ensure that incoming symmetric key =
value&nbsp;is encoded<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;in =
the specified format.=E2=80=9D;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">For =
"public-key-grouping=E2=80=9D:</div><div>&nbsp; OLD:</div><div>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;description<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;"Identifies the public key's format.";<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;}<br class=3D"">&nbsp; NEW:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;description<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;"Identifies the public key's format.&nbsp;Implementations =
SHOULD<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;ensure that =
incoming public key value is encoded&nbsp;in the<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;specified format.";<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;}<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div>For&nbsp;asymmetric-key-pair-grouping:</div><div>&nb=
sp; OLD:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;description<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;"Identifies the private =
key's format.";<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;}<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
NEW:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;description<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;"Identifies the private key's =
format.&nbsp;&nbsp;Implementations SHOULD<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;ensure that incoming private key value is =
encoded&nbsp;in the<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;specified format.";<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;}<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>3b) Second, regarding if a format mismatch can =
occur, this is not possible as, e.g., the =E2=80=9Ckey-format=E2=80=9D =
for the symmetric-key (see below) uses an =E2=80=9Cidentityref" that =
indicates that set values must derive from the "<font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D"">symmetric-key-format=E2=80=9D (i.e., NOT either =
the&nbsp;=E2=80=9Cpublic-key-format=E2=80=9D =
or&nbsp;=E2=80=9Cprivate-key-format=E2=80=9D =
identities):</font></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;leaf&nbsp;key-format&nbsp;{<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;nacm:default-deny-write;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;type&nbsp;identityref&nbsp;{<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;base&nbsp;symmetric-key-format;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;}<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>3c) Third, regarding if =
the thing referenced is what its supposed to be, note in the YANG module =
has this definition:</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;typedef&nbsp;asymmetric-key-ref&nbsp;{<b=
r class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;type&nbsp;leafref&nbsp;{<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;path&nbsp;"/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key"<=
br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp;"/ks:name";<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;}<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Thus, if a configuration points to =E2=80=9Cfoo=E2=80=
=9D, but no asymmetric key called =E2=80=9Cfoo=E2=80=9D exists, then a =
YANG validation would fail when the configuration is attempted to be =
set.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>QUESTION: should these implementation-notes be =
*moved* into Security Considerations? &nbsp; &nbsp;One one hand, =
there=E2=80=99s is best IETF-form but, on the other hand, there is best =
YANG-form. &nbsp; =46rom both PoVs, I think a case can be made but, if =
no one cares, I=E2=80=99ll leave it be.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br=
 class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Section 3 says<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;Built-in "encrypted" keys MAY be copied<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;into other parts of the configuration so long as they maintain =
their<br class=3D""> &nbsp;reference to the other built-in key that =
encrypted them.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I could see that built-in =
keys should be encrypted by other built-in keys (I don't see what other =
keys are available at the building-in time to encrypt them, but proof by =
"I don't see" is unconvincing). &nbsp;Is that required? &nbsp;I don't =
think the data model represents built-in keys as a distinct type, so I'm =
not sure the data model could represent the built-in-ness requirement. =
&nbsp;Could it ever be that a built-in key could be encrypted by a =
non-built-in key? &nbsp;I.e., does something prevent it.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>=46rom =
a terminology perspective, equate =E2=80=9Cbuilt-in=E2=80=9D with =
=E2=80=9Cgenerated by the manufacturer and/or in the device=E2=80=99s =
factory default configuration".</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>To =
the last question, no, a built-in key cannot be encrypted by a =
non-builtin key. &nbsp;That would be putting the cart in front of the =
horse, so to speak.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>But, to the crux =
of your question, that sentence simply acknowledging what=E2=80=99s =
possible. &nbsp;For instance, imagine a device ships with a *hidden* =
built-in key called =E2=80=9Cfoo=E2=80=9D and an encrypted built-in key =
called =E2=80=9Cbar=E2=80=9D, where bar is encrypted by foo. &nbsp; =
Presumably both foo and bar would appear in the Keystore in =
&lt;operational&gt; and, if a user wanted to use bar as a KEK, they =
would copy it into the exact same spot in &lt;running&gt; (i.e., in =
Keystore, using the same name, e.g., =E2=80=9Cbar"). &nbsp;This sentence =
acknowledges that the key might possibly be renamed =E2=80=9Cbaz=E2=80=9D =
or possibly be copied into a =E2=80=9Clocal definition=E2=80=9D =
somewhere (i.e., not in Keystore at all). &nbsp;In such cases, the =
configured-key is still valid so long as the base64 and the leafref =
pointing to =E2=80=9Cfoo=E2=80=9D remain. &nbsp;It=E2=80=99s a corner =
case that=E2=80=99s unlikely to trigger in practice, because why would =
you, though theoretically possible without a technical reason for a =
constraint. &nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Makes sense? &nbsp;</span></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 4 p34 =
says "built-in keys MUST be hidden". &nbsp;That really should be =
mentioned in Section 3.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>As mentioned in an email I wrote on Thu (Aug =
13th), I don=E2=80=99t think this MUST is enforceable and so am dialing =
it back something akin to a SHOULD or RECOMMENDED via this =
text:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">A MEK is commonly =
a globally-unique built-in =
(see&nbsp;&lt;xref&nbsp;target=3D"built-ins"/&gt;)</font></div><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;asymmetric key for which the private key, due&nbsp;to its =
long lifetime, is hidden&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;(&lt;relref&nbsp;section=3D"2.1.4.5."&nbsp;target=3D"I-D.ietf-=
netconf-crypto-types"/&gt;) and the&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;public key is contained in an =
identity&nbsp;certificate (e.g., IDevID).</font></div><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D""></div></div></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 3 and 4 about built-in keys and root =
keys and hidden keys:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Section 4 p34 says<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;The root key SHOULD be a hidden key, =
i.e., one whose private data has<br class=3D""> &nbsp;no presence in =
&lt;running&gt; or &lt;operational&gt;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">and<br=
 class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Given the long =
lifetime of built-in<br class=3D""> &nbsp;keys (see Section 3), built-in =
keys MUST be hidden.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>But this last part is no longer a =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D =
(see above)</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">and Section 3 p32 says<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;The key characteristic of the built-in =
keys is that they are provided<br class=3D""> &nbsp;by the system, as =
opposed to configuration. &nbsp;As such, they are<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;present in &lt;operational&gt;.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">So =
built-in keys must be hidden, which means they are candidates to be root =
keys, but they are "present in operational". &nbsp;By the first =
sentence, their private data is not in &lt;operational&gt;, so the =
configuration must use the hidden-private-key or hidden-key key-type for =
the secret parts.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Yes</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">By the requirement that =
built-in keys must be hidden, servers that do not support hidden keys =
can not use built-in keys. &nbsp;Correct?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Not =
anymore, since it can=E2=80=99t be enforced. &nbsp;The better statement =
might be: "it is highly RECOMMENDED that builtin keys are [permanently] =
hidden and, if this is not possible, highly restricted access mechanisms =
are used to limit the built-in key's secret data to only highly =
authorized clients (e.g., an organization=E2=80=99s crypto =
officer)."</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""> &nbsp;A hidden root key MAY be either a symmetric key or an =
asymmetric key.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>True. &nbsp; Asymmetric is the common case but its =
possible that a MEK could be a symmetric key, such that *only* a, e.g., =
TPM, is able to encrypt/decrypt certain keys (e.g., KEKs)</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Does the same apply to built-in keys? =
&nbsp;The examples in Section 3 are all asymmetric keys.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Yes =
(see example in previous response)</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Is using a built-in key as a root key advisable in =
operational situations?<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Absolutely. &nbsp;This is commonly done and (I =
think) recommended by TCG.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Presumably if a root key is not a built-in key and not a =
hidden key, then its secret data must be of cleartext-key type. =
&nbsp;Encrypting the root key is not possible, there is no other single =
key available (or it would be the root key). &nbsp;Has any consideration =
been given to dual root keys? &nbsp;I could see that that would be too =
complex to manage.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Your presumptions are correct. &nbsp; There =
certainly could be more than one MEK (root key). &nbsp;This model =
doesn=E2=80=99t constrain that possibility from being exposed to =
users.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 4.1 =
p35<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The use of the root key mentions =
encrypting with an asymmetric key, but not signing with an asymmetric =
key. &nbsp;Are signing and other crypto services not a part of the =
netconf view?<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Signing is using something a device might do to =
prove to a remote peer that it originated some data. &nbsp; In the =
context of the Keystore, it=E2=80=99s clearly desirable to configure =
encrypted keys but not clear there is a need to configure signed keys. =
&nbsp;At least, I=E2=80=99m unaware of the use case. &nbsp; Certainly =
any asymmetric key could be used to sign data, but the API (i.e., RPCs) =
enabling that are currently outside the scope of this =
document.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Section 4.2 p35<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;Each time =
a new key is to be configured, it SHOULD be encrypted by<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;the root key.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Would it be good to =
discuss how to configure a root key? &nbsp;If the root key is not a =
built-in key and there is no support for a hidden key, then a cleartext =
key would be required, correct? &nbsp;An encrypted key would not be =
possible because it would require a second key that would have to be =
available in the keystore - which means that would be the root key.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>I =
added:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp;"How =
to&nbsp;configure a MEK during the manufacturing&nbsp;process is =
outside</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the scope of =
this&nbsp;document.=E2=80=9D</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>And:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;"It is highly RECOMMENDED that MEKs are built-in and =
hidden&nbsp;but, if<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; this is not =
possible, MEKs highly restricted&nbsp;access mechanisms SHOULD&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;be used to limit access to the =
MEK's secret&nbsp;data to only highly&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;authorized clients (e.g., an organization=E2=80=99s&nbsp;crypt=
o officer).&nbsp;&nbsp;In this<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;case, it is RECOMMENDED that the MEK is not&nbsp;built-in =
and hence is,</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; effectively, just like a =
KEK.=E2=80=9D<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">Section 4.3 p35<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>Heads up: =
this is the section that was rewritten based on Magnus=E2=80=99s review. =
&nbsp;The =E2=80=9Cshared root key=E2=80=9D is now called =E2=80=9Ckey =
encryption key=E2=80=9D (KEK) and the =E2=80=9Croot key=E2=80=9D is now =
=E2=80=9Cmaster encryption key=E2=80=9D (MEK) in the -20 version I =
shared as an attachment last week. &nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>PS: Magnus suggests renaming =E2=80=9CMaster =
Encryption Key=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CMaster Key=E2=80=9D; I haven=E2=80=99t=
 done this yet hence why I=E2=80=99m still using the MEK =
term=E2=80=A6</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">This process for migrating a configuration to a new server =
would also work for replacing the root key on a server without requiring =
re-encrypting all the keystore's encrypted keys. &nbsp;(Mind you, I =
don't know how a non-builtin, non-hidden root key is configured from a =
cold start.)<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Yes.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">The text calls the key a "shared root key" - but the use in =
this process of migrating a configuration does not require that the key =
be shared other than between the "first" and "second" servers. &nbsp;I =
don't see that there's any reason to share the "shared root key" more =
widely; each migration between two servers could use a different "shared =
root key".<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Agreed.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">"This shared root key would only need to be known to an =
organization's crypto officer." -- until it is decrypted in a server for =
use in encrypting and decrypting local keys, right? &nbsp;I don't know =
how YANG implementations hold the root keys that are constantly in use =
but hopefully access is carefully controlled.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>To =
your question, right, only the crypto officer and then later the device =
itself should ever know the key.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Regarding the second part of your comment, please =
note that the YANG model isn=E2=80=99t forcing any behavior. &nbsp;=46rom =
my previous comments above, I think you see that the draft =
=E2=80=9Crecommends=E2=80=9D certain behaviors but, otherwise, enables =
implementations do present an interface reflecting a device=E2=80=99s =
internal behavior.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">A key common to all servers in an operational environment has =
been found to be unwise because an exposure at one server has a global =
impact. &nbsp;The text on p 36 says "The crypto officer can then safely =
handoff the encrypted shared key to other administrators responsible for =
server installations, including migrations." but that should be taken as =
a handoff as necessary at each occasion, not taken as a handoff to all =
other servers jointly, at the same time.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>Agreed. =
&nbsp;I think that it understood that the shared KEK would be encrypted =
for the minimal subset of devices=E2=80=A6presumably just a single =
failover device but, perhaps, a set of devices constituting a =
cluster.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 5.2 =
p38<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">This section points to the NETCONF =
protocol's support for mutual authentication, but in this particular =
case, I believe that the mandatory support for confidentiality is very =
important and should be mentioned, in particular for the configuration =
of cleartext keys.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Please be aware that this section is following =
(roughly) the template defined here:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407.html#section-3.7.1" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407.html#section-3.7.1</a>. =
&nbsp;This template ware reviewed by previous Security Area ADs =
.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><div class=3D"">FWIW, the first =
paragraph says =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 Both of these protocols have =
mandatory-to-implement secure transport layers (e.g., SSH, TLS) with =
mutual authentication.=E2=80=9D, so =E2=80=9Cconfidentiality isn=E2=80=99t=
 completely unstated=E2=80=A6.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">What text would you like to see added =
here?</div></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">I had one puzzle I could never figure out - why the =
keystore-reference for the grouping =
local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-with-certs-grouping (Sect 2.1.3.5) is =
an asymmetric-key-ref type. &nbsp;Other uses of asymmetric-key-ref are =
consistent with it being a reference to a key only, but here I expected =
the reference would be to a structure that contains the key and its =
associated certs. &nbsp;The descriptions in the Sect 2.3 Yang Module p29 =
says the grouping contains the cert and its keys.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>Good =
catch. &nbsp;Yes, there is some wonkiness here. &nbsp;(Continued in next =
comment)</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Is the asymmetric-key-ref in =
some way useable as both a reference to an asymmetric key and an =
asymmetric key and its associated certs?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>Indeed. =
&nbsp;The reality is that the Keystore only supports the notion of keys =
that may have associated certificates. &nbsp;In all cases, the =
=E2=80=9Clocal=E2=80=9D definition is as described, but sometimes the =
=E2=80=9Ckeystore=E2=80=9D definition is a bit off. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The only perfect* =
mapping is the =
=E2=80=9Clocal-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-with-certs-grouping=E2=80=9D =
grouping, as that is exactly what the Keystore has in it. =
&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The "<font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D"">local-or-keystore-end-entity-cert-with-key-grouping=E2=80=9D =
isn't that bad either, as it points to specific cert, which is under a =
key=E2=80=A6the only wonkiness is that the key may have other certs =
under it too, but it isn=E2=80=99t a big deal. =
&nbsp;</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">The =
"local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-grouping=E2=80=9D is the worst mapping =
because, while it does point to a key, the key may have certs under it. =
&nbsp;The expectation is that this&nbsp;won=E2=80=99t be a problem in =
context because the code is, presumably, only interested in the key (not =
the certs), as that is exactly all the code would get if =
the&nbsp;=E2=80=9Clocal=E2=80=9D&nbsp;definition is =
used.</font></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">At first I thought the "associated certs" in the groupings =
were the certificate chain certs - the subject cert, the issuer cert, =
etc. &nbsp;I am not sure they are - might they be many certificates for =
the same public key, perhaps for different algorithms? &nbsp;I think =
that should be explained.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Each =E2=80=9Ccertificate=E2=80=9D is actually the =
"end-entity-cert-cms" CMS structure defined in the =E2=80=9Ccrypto-types=E2=
=80=9D draft. &nbsp;Each CMS MAY contain a chain of certs for that =
end-entity =E2=80=9Ccertificate=E2=80=9D, in quotes because the =
=E2=80=9Ccertificate=E2=80=9D can also include associated issuer certs, =
as needed for the context.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Therefore, =
that a key may have a multiplicity of associated certs (i.e. CMSs) is to =
support things such as: different algorithms, different Subject/SAN, =
different Issuers, etc. &nbsp;Makes sense.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Happy to make things more clear, can you propose =
the text you=E2=80=99d like to see?</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Page-by-page comments and nits:<br =
class=3D"">-------------------------------<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Section 1 p 3<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;there are =
groupings that defined enabling a key to be either<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Did you mean the past tense here? &nbsp;Or did you mean =
"define"?<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Fixed =E2=80=94&gt; "define".<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Section 1.1 p 4<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">In the diagram, =
what is the meaning of the lines - what relationshiop do they represent =
- e.g., "refers to", "uses", "augments", something else?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>"The =
relationship between=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94&gt; "The normative dependency =
relationship between"</div><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">It looks like =
netconf-client-server has no relationship (whatever "relationship" is) =
to http-client-server, restconf-client-sever has no relationship to =
ssh-client-server, and http-client-server has no relationship to =
keystore or truststore. &nbsp;Is that all correct?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Yes. =
&nbsp;NETCONF doesn=E2=80=99t have an HTTP-based transport. =
&nbsp;RESTCONF doesn=E2=80=99t have an SSH-based transport. &nbsp;HTTP =
may be =E2=80=9Cmixed-in=E2=80=9D with TLS to created a protocol stack, =
but doesn=E2=80=99t itself depend on TLS.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 1.3 p 5<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;This document in compliant with Network Management Datastore<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;Architecture (NMDA) [RFC8342].<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">RFC8342 is listed in the informative section - what does it =
mean to be compliant with an informative reference?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>r/in =
compliant/is compliant/</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>This text is =
via&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.5" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.5</a>. &nbsp; =
It means that the data model has been developed assuming that there =
exists dedicated &lt;operational&gt; datastore that contains the =
=E2=80=9Coperational=E2=80=9D value for the system as a superset of =
configured nodes. &nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;[Std-802.1AR-2009] certificate) are =
expected to appear in<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&lt;operational&gt;<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I did not catch that the term =
&lt;operational&gt; was part of R%FC8342, and went looking for a =
reference. &nbsp;I found it in many places, like RFC6241. &nbsp;For =
those just that unobservant, could you put a citation here to RFC8342, =
which I think is the proper reference for that term. &nbsp;Note: =
&lt;running&gt; appears later, and a citation to RFC8342 is probably =
proper there as well. &nbsp;Yes, I know, probably about as necessary as =
a reference to "packet", but it would have spared me, maybe other =
non-Yang clueful folk will be reading this also.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Quite =
right - I added a =E2=80=9CTerminology=E2=80=9D section with references =
for "&lt;running&gt;=E2=80=9D and&nbsp;=E2=80=9C&lt;operational&gt;=E2=80=9D=
 (RFC 8342), as well as =E2=80=9Cclient" and =E2=80=9Cserver=E2=80=9D =
(RFC 6241).</div><br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Section 2 p 5<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;This =
section defines a YANG 1.1 [RFC7950] module that defines a<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;"keystore"<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Should that be =
"ietf-keystore"? &nbsp;Or do you mean keystore in a general sense, in =
which case I think the quote marks make it look like a name, not a =
general sense. &nbsp;(I went looking for a definition of a "keystore", =
but that could just be me.)<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Part =
of the issue is that the term =E2=80=9Ckeystore" isn=E2=80=99t defined =
anywhere. I just added the following in the new =E2=80=9CTerminology=E2=80=
=9D section:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>&nbsp;The =
term "keystore" is defined in this draft as =
a&nbsp;mechanism</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;that =
intends safeguard secrets placed&nbsp;into it for =
protection.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>That said, the issue =
with the paragraph you cite is worse than you point out, as it cites =
some but not all notable aspects about the ietf-keystore module. &nbsp;I =
just rewrote that paragraph to a simpler description of the subsections =
to come.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>OLD:</div><div>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;This section defines a YANG =
1.1&nbsp;&lt;xref&nbsp;target=3D"RFC7950"/&gt;&nbsp;module<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;that defines a "keystore" =
and groupings&nbsp;supporting downstream<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;modules to reference the keystore or =
have&nbsp;locally-defined definitions.</div><div><br =
class=3D"">NEW:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;This section =
defines a YANG =
1.1&nbsp;&lt;xref&nbsp;target=3D"RFC7950"/&gt;&nbsp;module<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">called&nbsp;</span>"ietf-keystore".&nbsp;&nbsp;A high-level =
overview of the&nbsp;module is provided in</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;xref&nbsp;target=3D"overview"/&gt;. =
Examples&nbsp;illustatrating the module's use&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;are provided =
in&nbsp;&lt;xref&nbsp;target=3D"examples"&gt;Examples&lt;/xref&gt;. The =
YANG<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;module itself =
is defined in&nbsp;&lt;xref&nbsp;target=3D"keystore-yang-module"/&gt;.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 2.1.1. =
&nbsp;p6<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;The following diagram lists =
all the "feature" statements defined in<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Everywhere beyond this page it says "tree diagram". =
&nbsp;RFC8340 is cited in Section 2.1.3.1, but this is the first use =
(unless I'm wrong about the "tree diagram"), so the citation should go =
here.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;The following diagram lists =
the "typedef" statements defined in the<br class=3D""> &nbsp;The =
following diagram lists all the "grouping" statements defined in<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">diagram -&gt; "tree diagram"<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The =
thing that you don=E2=80=99t know is that those diagrams (plus another =
that lists the =E2=80=9Cgroupings=E2=80=9D defined in the document) are =
NOT RFC8340&nbsp;tree diagrams, they are using a format I made up that =
happens to look like the RFC 8340 diagrams. &nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I recommend the NETMOD WG consider an rfc8340-bis =
to define the new tree diagram outputs for a list of features, a list of =
typedefs, and a list of groupings.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>In =
the meanwhile, I updated this draft to explicitly state that particular =
diagrams are not tree diagrams as follows:</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | &nbsp;The diagram =
above uses syntax that is similar to but not</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; | &nbsp;defined in [RFC8340].</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Section 2.1.3.3 - 2.1.3.6:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">" =
offer an option as to if an asymmetric key is defined" - personally, I =
would say "as to whether". &nbsp;I don't know if the RFC-Editor (and rfc =
style guide) care.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Fixed =E2=80=94&gt; replaced all "as to if=E2=80=9D =
strings to =E2=80=9Cfor whether=E2=80=9D - better?<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">"augmented in if, e.g.," - I =
actually thought this was an editing error, until heard "augment in" =
used as a word in the IETF session. &nbsp;Web search shows "augment in" =
is a term of art in netconf! &nbsp;But some uses add a hyphen, which I =
think is a good idea.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Added to the new =E2=80=9CTerminology=E2=80=9D =
section:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>=E2=80=9C=E2=80=9D=E2=80=9D</=
div><div>The sentence fragments "augmented" and "augmented in" =
are&nbsp;used herein as the verbified form of the =
"augment"&nbsp;statement defined in =
&lt;relref&nbsp;section=3D"7.17"&nbsp;target=3D"RFC7950"/&gt;.</div><div>=E2=
=80=9C"=E2=80=9D</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;reference a =
asymmetric key in an alternate location.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">a =
asymmetric -&gt; an asymmetric. &nbsp;A global change might be good, as =
well as changing "an symmetric" to "a symmetric".<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>Both fixed =
- thanks!</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section =
2.1.3.4<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;* &nbsp;For the =
"local-definition" option, the defintion uses the<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"asymmetric-key-pair-grouping" grouping =
discussed in<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Section 2.1.3.4 of =
[I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types].<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">It looks =
to me like it is actually Section 2.1.4.4 of =
[I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types].<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Fixed! =
&nbsp;=E2=80=9C2.1.3.4=E2=80=9D -&gt; =E2=80=9C2.1.4.5"</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>This is one issue with the new =E2=80=9Crelref=E2=80=
=9D element in the xml2rfc v3 syntax, a section number (e.g., =
=E2=80=9C2.1.3.4=E2=80=9D) has to be hardcoded, there=E2=80=99s no =
option to use the =E2=80=9Canchor=E2=80=9D value, so misalignments may =
occur unknowingly.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 2.1.3.7 p 11<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;* &nbsp;The "keystore-grouping" grouping is defines a =
keystore instance as<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">"is defines" -&gt; =
"defines"<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Fixed</div><div><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""> &nbsp;* =
&nbsp;For asymmetric keys, each "asymmetric-key" uses the =
"asymmetric-<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;key-pair-with-certs-grouping" grouping discussed =
Section 2.1.3.10<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;of =
[I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types].<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">"discussed" =
-&gt; "discussed in"<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Quite right, and I found another like it, fixed =
both.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Why do none of =
the asymmetric keys here use a grouping that is the key only, like the =
ct:asymmetric-key-pair-grouping used in Sectoin 2.1.3.4 of this document =
(discussed in 2.1.4.4 of [I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types]).<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--rw =
encrypted-private-key<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--rw encrypted-by<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;+--rw (encrypted-by-choice)<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--:(symmetric-key-ref)<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;+--rw symmetric-key-ref? &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;leafref<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--:(asymmetric-key-ref)<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--rw asymmetric-key-ref? =
&nbsp;&nbsp;leafref<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D"">The =
section you quoted is for the =
"encrypted-private-key=E2=80=9D&nbsp;case&nbsp;of a =E2=80=9Cchoice" =
statement called&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">"private-key-type</span><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=9D</span>. &nbsp;This =E2=80=9Cchoice=E2=80=9D also =
supports&nbsp;"cleartext-private-key=E2=80=9D, that is the raw key only, =
is that what you mean?</div></div><div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Section 2.2.1 p 13<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;The =
following example illustrates keys in &lt;running&gt;.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Like I said before, maybe a citation of RFC8340 here.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>The new =
Terminology section defines =E2=80=9C&lt;running&gt;" =
(and&nbsp;=E2=80=9C&lt;operational&gt;) pointing to&nbsp;RFC8342 (NMDA). =
&nbsp;[PS: RFC 8340 is for =E2=80=9CTree Diagrams=E2=80=9D]</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 2.2.3 p 17 has the =
phrase "following non-normative ". &nbsp;Does that belong here? &nbsp;Or =
because this is XML, it can not be confused to be a normantive Yang =
module?<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>It was/is a little bit of everything &nbsp; =
\_o_/</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>I created a new =
introduction:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>&lt;t&gt;These examples assume the existence of =
an&nbsp;example</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>&nbsp;module called =
"ex-keystore-usage=E2=80=9D&nbsp;having the namespace</div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>&nbsp;"<a =
href=3D"http://example.com/ns/example-keystore-usage" =
class=3D"">http://example.com/ns/example-keystore-usage</a>".&lt;/t&gt;</d=
iv><div><br class=3D""></div><div>And then changed the line as =
follows:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>OLD:</div><div>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;t&gt;The following =
non-normative module is&nbsp;defined to illustrate these<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;groupings:&lt;/t&gt;<br class=3D"">NEW:</div><div>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;t&gt;Following is the =
"ex-keystore-usage"&nbsp;module's YANG definition:&nbsp;<br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;symmetric-key&gt;<br =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;encrypted-by&gt;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&lt;asymmetric-key-ref&gt;hidden-asymmetric-key&lt;/asymmetric-k=
\<br class=3D""> &nbsp;ey-ref&gt;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&l=
t;/encrypted-by&gt;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The =
"hidden-asymmetric-key" key appears later in the asymmetric-keys part of =
the keystore example on p15. &nbsp;I don't know how to prevent that =
forward sort of reference for the readers, or if it is a problem.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>This =
is not a problem, as o<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">rdering doesn=E2=80=99t =
matter&nbsp;</span>with YANG-defined models. &nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 2.2.3 p 18<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;list end-entity-cert-with-key =
{<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;key name;<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;uses =
ks:local-or-keystore-end-entity-cert-with-key-grouping;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;description<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"An end-entity =
certificate, and its associated private key,<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that may be =
configured locally or be a reference to a<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specific =
certificate (and its associated private key) in<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the =
keystore.";<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">You can't rely on descriptions, =
but I see no explicit reference to the private key in that end-entity =
cert grouping. &nbsp;That grouping is defined in Section 2.1.3.6 p 9, =
and the keystore-reference is an =
asymmetric-key-certificate-ref-grouping. &nbsp;That grouping has an =
asymmetric-key-ref and a cert. &nbsp;The description above says "and its =
associated private key". &nbsp;So is the asymmetric-key-ref a ref to the =
private key or to a key pair?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Fixed. =
&nbsp;=E2=80=9Cassociated private key=E2=80=9D -&gt; "associated =
asymmetric key"</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;"An end-entity certificate and its =
associated&nbsp;asymmetric<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;key, that may be configured locally or be a&nbsp;reference<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;to another =
certificate&nbsp;(and its associated&nbsp;asymmetric<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;key)&nbsp;in the keystore.=E2=80=9D;<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">Section 2.3 p 25<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;typedef symmetric-key-ref {<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;type leafref {<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;path =
"/ks:keystore/ks:symmetric-keys/ks:symmetric-key"<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+ =
"/ks:name";<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;}<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Does default-deny-write belong here, or added =
each time an item is defined of this type?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;">No, because it is a typedef, and =
typedefs don=E2=80=99t support extensions (search RFC 7950 for "<span =
style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><font color=3D"#000000" =
size=3D"2" class=3D"">typedef-stmt<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D and "</span></font></span><font =
color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">extension-stmt=E2=80=9D</span>).</font></div><di=
v><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 2.3 p 26<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;case asymmetric-key-ref {<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;leaf =
asymmetric-key-ref {<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;type =
leafref {<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;path "/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/"<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+ "ks:asymmetric-key/ks:name";<br =
class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;}<br =
class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;descript=
ion<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"I=
dentifies the asymmetric key used to encrypt this key.";<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;}<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">(a) "the asymmetric key used to encrypt" - the public key =
part is used to encrypt, so is the asymmetric key just the public key or =
a key-pair where the appropriate part of the key-pair is used according =
to context?<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>OLD:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; "Identifies the asymmetric key used to encrypt this key.";<br =
class=3D""></div><div>NEW:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;"Identifies the asymmetric key whose public key</div>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;encrypted&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">the =
associated key</span>.";<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">(b) "encrypt this key" - The "this key" part is appropriate =
if the assymmetric-key-ref is being used in an encrypted-by-choice =
structure, but there are lots of places in this text where the type is =
not in such a structure. &nbsp;Is it the case that the uses always =
resolve to be encrypting a key?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Right, =
per above, now "<font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">the associated key=E2=80=
=9D and the&nbsp;=E2=80=9Cdescription" statement =
for&nbsp;"encrypted-by-choice-grouping=E2=80=9D now =
says:</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;"A grouping that defines a choice that can be&nbsp;augmented =
into<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the 'encrypted-by' node =
presented by the&nbsp;'symmetric-key-grouping'<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and the 'asymmetric-key-pair-grouping' =
groupings&nbsp;defined in<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;RFC =
AAAA.=E2=80=9D;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Indicating that =
the&nbsp;=E2=80=9Cassociated key=E2=80=9D is defined in those two =
groupings. &nbsp;Good enough?</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></font><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">(c) "encrypt" - Is it always =
the case that asymmetric keys in the keystore will be used to encrypt =
something? &nbsp;There is no expectation that the asymmetric key-pair =
will be used to sign something?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>An =
asymmetric-key may be used to sign something, but this module has no =
need to do that. &nbsp;For instance, the module doesn=E2=80=99t support =
the notion of a =E2=80=9Csigned key=E2=80=9D (a la =E2=80=9Cencrypted =
key=E2=80=9D), beyond its support for certificates. &nbsp;This doesn=E2=80=
=99t preclude a consuming application from using an asymmetric key to =
sign data if needed.<div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 2.3 =
p27<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;description<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"A grouping that expands to =
allow the symmetric key to be<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;either stored locally, =
within the using data model, or be<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a reference to a =
symmetric key stored in the Keystore.";<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The =
following is wordsmithing the description text, so a very-nitty-nit.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">", or be" -&gt; ", or" &nbsp;(the "be" is =
before the "either", don't need it)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">A =
reader might be confused as to whether the disjunction was two disjuncts =
or three.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Fixed, in all four places where =E2=80=9Cor be=E2=80=
=9D was being used.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">I might suggest using "i.e., within the using data store". =
&nbsp;Maybe also<br class=3D"">move the "be" inside the "either or" for =
scoping<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"A =
grouping that expands to allow the symmetric key to either<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be stored locally, i.e., =
within the using data model, or be<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a reference to a =
symmetric key stored in the Keystore.";<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>Added =
=E2=80=9Ci.e.,=E2=80=9D</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">The groupings =
in this section have a descriptoin of the grouping, a description of the =
key case and a description of the choice. &nbsp;I thought it worked =
better to place the description of the choice closer to the "choice =
local or keystore" rather than at the end.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Moved =
all =E2=80=9Cchoice=E2=80=9D statement descriptions be before the =
=E2=80=9Ccase=E2=80=9D statements.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">And finally. Descriptions very frequently (always?) conclude =
with a "." but they are very frequently not sentences, so the "." is not =
necessary. &nbsp;I do not know if the RFC-Editor or the Style manual =
cares.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>The descriptions should be sentences. &nbsp;I =
found only two instances that were missing an opening article (=E2=80=98A=E2=
=80=99), which gave the appearance of not being a sentence=E2=80=A6but =
you said there were =E2=80=9Cmany"?</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Section 2.3 p 28<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;grouping =
local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-with-certs-grouping<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;case keystore {<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;if-feature =
"keystore-supported";<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;leaf =
keystore-reference {<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;type =
ks:asymmetric-key-ref;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;descript=
ion<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;"A reference to an asymmetric-key (and all of its<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;associated certificates) in the Keystore.";<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">An example of my puzzle about the =
local-or-keystore-asymmetric-key-with-certs-grouping keystore-reference. =
&nbsp;How are the certs to be found if the keystore-reference is to the =
asymmetric key only? &nbsp;Or must the asymmetric-key-ref sometimes =
point just to a key and sometimes to a key+certs, as needed?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>An =
asymmetric key "in the Keystore=E2=80=9D always allows certs to be =
associated. &nbsp;I understand that this isn=E2=80=99t true for =
asymmetric keys in general.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 3 p 31<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;In some implementations, a server may support built-in keys. =
&nbsp;Built-<br class=3D""> &nbsp;in built-in keys<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">"Built-in built-in" =3D&gt; "Built-in"<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Fixed =
- redundancy removed.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">Section 3 p 32<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> &nbsp;In order =
for the built-in keys (and/or their associated built-in<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;certificates) to be referenced by configuration, the referenced =
keys<br class=3D""> &nbsp;MUST first be copied into &lt;running&gt;. The =
keys SHOULD be copied into</div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"">&nbsp;&lt;running&gt; using the same "key" =
values, so that the server can bind<br class=3D"">&nbsp;the references =
to the built-in entries.</blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;Built-in "hidden" keys cannot be copied into other parts of the<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;configuration because their private parts are hidden, =
and therefore<br class=3D""> &nbsp;impossible to replicate.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Section 4 p34 says built-in keys MUST be =
hidden. &nbsp;So they must be copied to &lt;running&gt; but they can't =
be copied? Huh?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>OLD:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;t&gt;Built-in "hidden" keys cannot be copied =
into&nbsp;other parts of the&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;configuration because their private parts =
are&nbsp;hidden, and therefore<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;impossible to replicate.&nbsp;&nbsp;Built-in =
"encrypted"&nbsp;keys MAY be copied<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;into other parts of the configuration so long =
as&nbsp;they maintain their<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;reference to the other built-in key that&nbsp;encrypted =
them.&lt;/t&gt;<br class=3D""></div><div>NEW:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;t&gt;In addition to copying keys into the =
Keystore&nbsp;in&nbsp;&amp;lt;running&amp;gt;,&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;cleartext and encrypted keys may be =
copied into&nbsp;other parts of&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;configuration, but they will lose =
their&nbsp;connection to having been<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;a built-in value.&nbsp;&nbsp;Note that hidden keys =
cannot&nbsp;be copied into<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;other parts of the configuration because doing&nbsp;would =
lose the key's<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;connection to the built-in key, where the key's&nbsp;secret =
value is&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;stored.&nbsp;&nbsp;Built-in "encrypted" keys MAY be =
copied&nbsp;into other parts&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;of the configuration so long as the reference =
to&nbsp;the other built-in&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;key that encrypted them is maintained.&lt;/t&gt;<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">The keys SHOULD be =
copied into</blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&lt;running&gt; using the same "key" values, so that =
the server can bind<br class=3D"">&nbsp;the references to the built-in =
entries.</blockquote><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></blockquote></div></div></div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">The word "key" is overloaded =
in this document, like "The key characteristic of the built-in keys" and =
"Key Words". &nbsp;Here, the reference is surely to a required part of =
the "list" syntax, so no way to use a different word. &nbsp;Maybe say =
'the same list "key" values' or 'the same values for the list "key" =
field/node'.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Changed "Key characteristic" to "primary =
characteristic=E2=80=9D.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>"Key =
words=E2=80=9D is RFC 2119 language that cannot be altered.<br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""></div><div>OLD:</div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; The keys SHOULD be copied into<br class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>&lt;running&gt; using the same "key" values, so that =
the server can bind<br class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>the references to the built-in entries.<br =
class=3D""><div>NEW:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The =
keys SHOULD be copied<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;into&nbsp;&amp;lt;running&amp;gt;&nbsp;using the same value =
for&nbsp;the list's "key"&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;substatement, so that the server can bind =
the&nbsp;references to the<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;built-in entries.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> &nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Built-in "encrypted" keys MAY be copied<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;into other parts of the configuration so long as they =
maintain their<br class=3D""> &nbsp;reference to the other built-in key =
that encrypted them.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">(a) Section 4 p34 says =
"built-in keys MUST be hidden", so is there a way the hidden built-in =
keys can be encrypted keys?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Under =
the hood, it is possible that a hidden key is encrypted, but if it is, =
that information would be hidden too ;)</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br=
 class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">(b) So encrypted built-in keys must always be encrypted by =
other built-in keys? &nbsp;Is there a way to represent that in the data =
model? &nbsp;(I explored this before.)<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&lt;running&gt; MAY be a subset of the built-in keys define in =
&lt;operational&gt;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">"define" -&gt; =
"defined"<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>FIXED.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""> &nbsp;Only the referenced keys need to be =
copied; that is, the keys in<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&lt;running&gt; MAY be =
a subset of the built-in keys define in<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&lt;operational&gt;. &nbsp;No keys may be added or changed (with =
exception to<br class=3D""> &nbsp;associating additional certificates to =
a built-in key); that is, the<br class=3D""> &nbsp;keys in =
&lt;running&gt; MUST be a subset (which includes the whole of the<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;set) of the built-in keys define in =
&lt;operational&gt;.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I don't understatnd =
this part. &nbsp;First it says<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">"keys in =
&lt;running&gt; MAY be a subset of the built-in keys define in =
&lt;operational&gt;"<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">and then<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">"keys in &lt;running&gt; MUST be a subset ... =
of the built-in keys define in &lt;operational&gt;".<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">That is inconsistent, is it intended?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Does the last sentence mean that if there are built-in keys, =
no other keys may be added to the keystore? &nbsp;I don't know what is =
intended here.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><br class=3D""><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Removed the =
last part: i.e., =E2=80=9Cthe keys in &lt;running&gt; MUST be a subset =
(which includes the whole of the set) of the built-in keys define in =
&lt;operational&gt;."</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">NEW:</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;t&gt;Only the referenced keys need to be =
copied;&nbsp;that is, the keys<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;in&nbsp;&amp;lt;running&amp;gt;&nbsp;MAY be a subset, =
including&nbsp;the whole of the set,&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;of the built-in keys defined =
in&nbsp;&amp;lt;operational&amp;gt;.&lt;/t&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;t&gt;No new built-in =
keys may be added nor existing&nbsp;built-in changed,&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;with exception to =
associating additional&nbsp;certificates to an&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;existing built-in key.&lt;/t&gt;<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">About "exception to" - I use "exeption to &lt;rule&gt;" and =
"exception for &lt;a special case&gt;". &nbsp;I don't know if the =
RFC-Editor or the Style manual cares.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>=E2=80=9Cexc=
eption to=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94&gt; =E2=80=9Cexception for=E2=80=9D</div><div=
><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 4.1 p34<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;not support hidden keys, then the private data part of key MUST be =
<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">"of key" -&gt; "of the root key"<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>This =
sentence no longer exists after the rewrite of the section addressing =
the comment from Magnus.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Section 4.1 p35<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;If the hidden root key is asymmetric, then the server<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;SHOULD provide APIs enabling other keys to be both generated =
and<br class=3D""> &nbsp;encrypted by it<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The =
"both generated and encrypted by it" sounds like keys are being =
generated by the root key. &nbsp;I don't think that's generally true. =
&nbsp;Section 4.2 separates key generation and key encryption steps. =
&nbsp;I think this should be clearer.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">(The =
mention of other crypto services moved to area before nits.)<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">After =
addressing the comment from Magnus, the new text is:</div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br =
class=3D""></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;t&gt;Implementations SHOULD provide an API =
that&nbsp;simultaneously generates<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;and encrypts a key (symmetric or =
asymmetric)&nbsp;using a KEK.&nbsp;&nbsp;Thusly<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;newly generated key cleartext =
values are never&nbsp;known to the<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;administrators generating the =
keys.&lt;/t&gt;<br class=3D""></span></font><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Better?</div></div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Section 4.2 p35<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">(A discussion of =
issues, not nits, was moved to area before nits.)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Section 4.3 p35<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">(A discussion of =
issues, not nits, was moved to area before nits.) &nbsp;<br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">Section 5.2 p38<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">(A discussion =
of issues, not nits, was moved to area before nits.)<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>Okay.<br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;Please be =
aware that this module uses the "key" and "private-<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;key" nodes from the "ietf-crypto-types" =
module<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;[I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types], where said nodes have the NACM<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;extension "default-deny-all" =
set, thus preventing unrestricted<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| &nbsp;read-access to the cleartext key =
values.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">This text missed the change A.19 to =
add a "cleartext" prefix as in ietf-netconf-crypto-types. &nbsp;The =
"cleartext" prefix is present in the modules, tree-diagrams, XML, etc., =
but the references in text here did not change. &nbsp;(Actually, I see =
several examples in the text in ietf-netconf-crypto-types where the =
change was not made, e.g. p 9 says &nbsp;'- &nbsp;The "key" node can =
encode any plain-text key value.' where the preceding tree diagram has a =
node named "cleartext-key" and older versions said "key".) &nbsp;I =
appreciate the discussion of the default-deny-all in Section 3.5 p42 of =
ietf-netconf-crypto-types and I think that a citation here would be =
warranted and useful.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Fixed: prefixed =E2=80=9Ccleartext-=E2=80=9C</div><d=
iv><br class=3D""></div>NEW:</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;t&gt;Please be aware that this module uses =
the&nbsp;"cleartext-key" and&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "cleartext-private-key"&nbsp;nodes from the =
"ietf-crypto-types" module&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&lt;xref&nbsp;target=3D"I-D.ietf-netconf-crypto-types"/&gt;,&nbsp;where =
said nodes</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
have the NACM extension&nbsp;"default-deny-all" set, =
thus&nbsp;preventing</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; uncontrolled read-access to the&nbsp;cleartext key =
values.&lt;/t&gt;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Also fixed a number of =
missing =E2=80=9Ccleartext-=E2=80=9C prefixes in the crypto-types =
draft.<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">BTW. &nbsp;I =
don't know the NACM well but could it be said that the default-deny-all =
prevents uncontrolled access, but does not necessarily prevent =
unrestricted access, because a present but careless access control might =
not actually restrict access?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Fixed. =
&nbsp;See =E2=80=9Cuncontrolled=E2=80=9D the the NEW =
above.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 6.2 p =
39<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">"the the" -&gt; "the"<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Fixed =
(in other documents also) - thanks!</div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Section 7.2 =
p40<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The list of Informative References =
includes:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;[I-D.ietf-netconf-keystore]<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Wa=
tsen, K., "A YANG Data Model for a Keystore", Work in<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Pr=
ogress, Internet-Draft, draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-17,<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;20=
 May 2020, &lt;<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-</a><br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ne=
tconf-keystore-17&gt;.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Isn't this a self =
reference to an earlier version?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Note: ID =
nits gives 11 warnings, but all are due to references to older versions =
of existing drafts or to future versions not yet published. &nbsp;The =
latter case seems to be wrong, and the warning usually notes<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(However, the state information for =
draft-ietf-netconf-keystore is not<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;up-to-date. &nbsp;The last update was unsuccessful)<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I have no idea what that means. &nbsp;The =
warnings are consistent, so may be something to watch.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Generally speaking, a document should not =
reference itself! &nbsp;The self-reference in this document is coming =
from Section 1.1 (Relation to other RFCs). &nbsp;The XML feeding this =
section is from a common snippet of xml2rfc XML that is stitched into =
the same spot for each of the documents in the collection of RFCs-to-be, =
per the "Relation to other RFCs=E2=80=9D section. &nbsp; My choices =
are:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>1) Copy-paste the common-text =
into each document and then customize it by converting the =
self-reference to something like =E2=80=9C&lt;this document&gt;=E2=80=9D, =
and the&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D"">remove</span>&nbsp;the reference from the "<font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(255, 255, =
255);" class=3D"">Informative References=E2=80=9D =
section.</span></font></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>or</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>2) Add an =
RFC-editor note requesting that customization be made for each document =
in the collection.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Thoughts?</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div>K.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">=E2=80=94Sandy<b=
r class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

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Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 10:28:56 -0700
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To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:17 AM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote=
:

> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Tianran
>
>
>
> *From:* netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andy
> Bierman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:18 AM
> *To:* Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Cc:* netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> [Also as a contributor]
>
>
>
> My comments are broadly similar to Kent=E2=80=99s.
>
>
>
> I believe that a UDP transport for dataplane telemetry where getting
> accurate fresh data quickly is more important than getting every update.
> This is particularly true if a subsequent notification will cover any los=
t
> values anyway (e.g. periodic statistics).
>
>
>
>
>
> agreed.
>
> There is also the resync-subscription mechanism to help recover from
> missing data.
>
>
>
> [ztr] Our intention of using UDP is for data that do not care about
> occasional loss. Typically for period data, and new data will anyway came
> and update.
>
> Does the =E2=80=9Cresync-subscription=E2=80=9D mean the retransmission? H=
ere do you want
> to add the =E2=80=9Cresync-subscription mechanism=E2=80=9D when packet lo=
ss is detected
> in this draft?
>
>
>


This is explained in RFC 8641



>
>
>
>
> I suspect that having a mechanism to allow for the telemetry data being
> encrypted is probably also important.  If the WG were to adopt a draft
> without this, then as Benoit mentioned, I would have to test the water wi=
th
> the IESG to determine whether that would be acceptable.
>
>
>
> I suspect the lack of congestion control might get their attention as wel=
l.
>
>
>
> [ztr] Yes, I agree, both security and congestion considerations need to b=
e
> described in the document. We have section 4 for congestion control. Do y=
ou
> have any idea on this?
>


no -- I can't solve problems that IETF creates for itself.
I think the draft says something like "do not use this protocol if
congestion is a concern".



>
>
> I also note that the draft allows for a GPB encoding of the telemetry
> data, but I=E2=80=99m not aware of any formal standard encoding of YANG d=
ata in
> GPB, and there is a choice between whether the GPB encoding is generic fo=
r
> all YANG data, or specific GPB encodings are useful for the specific data
> that is being encoded.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I was confused by the same thing.
>
> Is there a YANG schema for a notification element that is used?
>
> Which means the .proto file is hardwired?
>
> If not then how does the receiver know what is sent?
>
> There are some technical issues that can be addressed if the draft is
> adopted.
>
>
>
> [ztr] In this draft we only consider to include a code point to indicate
> the GPB encoding. How to map YANG to GPB is out of the scope of this draf=
t.
>
> In practice, there are several ways in my opinion.
>
> We can map YANG to proto firstly, and the proto actually describes the
> data structure. I think YANG can almost translate to proto 1:1.
>
> We can also develop YANG to GPB directly, just like YANG to XML and JSON.
>
> In brief, the receiver can still know what is sent by YANG.
>
>
>
>

I don't think the protocol should include placeholders for
proprietary solutions.
Either leave out GPB completely or support it in an interoperable way.

More issues:

This protocol is not usable by servers that stream data instead of building
an entire response
in memory. With a streaming design the server doesn't know what will be
sent in advance so
it sure doesn't know the length in advance.  CBOR does a great job of
supporting both
types of server design.  NETCONF and HTTP support chunking, which is used
extensively by
streaming servers. This draft should mention streaming and explain why it
is not supported.

The generic wrappers (like gNMI and YANG notification schema) do not handle
"anydata" very well at all.
The binary payload becomes mostly JSON.  Only CBOR+SID handles anydata
efficiently.
The solution (maybe outside the scope of this protocol) should consider how
YANG anydata
will be transmitted efficiently and converted from anydata to a real schema
correctly by the receiver.



>
>
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
> Andy
>


Andy


>
>
>
>
> *From:* netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Kent Watsen
> *Sent:* 07 August 2020 21:16
> *To:* netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>
>
>
> [as a contributor]
>
>
>
>
>
>    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>
>
>
> I believe that it is important to enable publishers to send notifications
> using a UDP-based transport.   This belief is based on my experience from
> when at Juniper dealing with very high-end firewalls with enormous log
> output.
>
>
>
> I believe that the NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, having
> defined RFC 8639 (SN), RFC 8640 (NN), and RFC 8650 (RN).
>
>
>
>
>
>    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
>
> I have read the current version of the draft and find it to be a
> reasonable start.
>
>
>
> Presuming the =E2=80=9Creceiver-instances=E2=80=9D augmentation defined i=
n
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3 t=
akes
> off, the module defined in this draft should be updated to augment into i=
t
> instead.
>
>
>
> I appreciate Section 5 (Applicability) noting that the UDP-transport is
> primarily for the data plane (not the control plane), as it doesn=E2=80=
=99t matter
> so much if data plane notifications are lost.  This addresses (I think) t=
he
> issue that Rob Shakir raised before:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf (search for =E2=80=
=9CRob
> S=E2=80=9D).  That said, it is unclear to me how a receiver could configu=
re this
> while, e.g., configuring control plane notifications to be sent via a
> TCP-based transport such as =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
>
>
> 3) regarding Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:
>
>
>
>   a) I am willing to substantially review the drafts.
>
>   b) I am willing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.
>
>   c) I do NOT plan to implement the technology defined.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kent
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>

--0000000000002f9b6705adcb28a7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:17 AM Tianr=
an Zhou &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com">zhoutianran@huawei.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
>





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-1398828553854545148WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Andy,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Please see inline.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Tianran<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"> netconf [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">netconf-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andy Bierman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rob Wilton (rwilton) &lt;rwilton=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com=
@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton)=
 &lt;rwilton=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">[Also as a contributor]<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">My comments are broadly similar=
 to Kent=E2=80=99s.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I believe that a UDP transport =
for dataplane telemetry where getting accurate fresh data quickly is more i=
mportant than getting every update.=C2=A0 This is particularly
 true if a subsequent notification will cover any lost values anyway (e.g. =
periodic statistics).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">agreed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There is also the resync-subscription mechanism to h=
elp recover from missing data.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">[ztr] Our intention of using UDP is for data that do not care abo=
ut occasional loss. Typically for period data, and new data will anyway cam=
e and update.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Does the =E2=80=9C</span>resync-subscription<span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=E2=80=9D mean the retransmission?=
 Here do you want to add the =E2=80=9C</span>resync-subscription
 mechanism<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=E2=
=80=9D when packet loss is detected in this draft?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>This is explained in RFC 8641</div><di=
v><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1398828553854545148WordSecti=
on1"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;fo=
nt-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I suspect that having a mechani=
sm to allow for the telemetry data being encrypted is probably also importa=
nt.=C2=A0 If the WG were to adopt a draft without this, then
 as Benoit mentioned, I would have to test the water with the IESG to deter=
mine whether that would be acceptable.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suspect the lack of congestion control might get t=
heir attention as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">[ztr] Yes, I agree, both security and congestion considerations n=
eed to be described in the document. We have section 4 for congestion contr=
ol. Do you have any idea on this?</span></p></div></div></div></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>no -- I can&#39;t solve prob=
lems that IETF creates for itself.</div><div>I think the draft says somethi=
ng like &quot;do not use this protocol if congestion is a concern&quot;.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1398828553854545148Wo=
rdSection1"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I also note that the draft allo=
ws for a GPB encoding of the telemetry data, but I=E2=80=99m not aware of a=
ny formal standard encoding of YANG data in GPB, and there is
 a choice between whether the GPB encoding is generic for all YANG data, or=
 specific GPB encodings are useful for the specific data that is being enco=
ded.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I was confused by the same thing.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is there a YANG schema for a notification element th=
at is used?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Which means the .proto file is hardwired?<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If not then how does the receiver know what is sent?=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There are some technical issues that can be addresse=
d if the draft is adopted.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">[ztr] In this draft we only consider to include a code point to i=
ndicate the GPB encoding. How to map YANG to GPB is out of the scope of thi=
s draft.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">In practice, there are several ways in my opinion.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">We can map YANG to proto firstly, and the proto actually describe=
s the data structure. I think YANG can almost translate to proto 1:1.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">We can also develop YANG to GPB directly, just like YANG to XML a=
nd JSON.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">In brief, the receiver can still know what is sent by YANG.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif"><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div><br></div><div>I don&#39;t think the protocol should includ=
e placeholders for proprietary=C2=A0solutions.</div><div>Either leave out G=
PB completely or support it in an interoperable way.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>More issues:</div><div><br></div><div>This protocol is not usable by ser=
vers that stream data instead of building an entire response</div><div>in m=
emory. With a streaming design the server doesn&#39;t know what will be sen=
t in advance so</div><div>it sure doesn&#39;t know the length in advance.=
=C2=A0 CBOR does a great job of supporting both</div><div>types of server d=
esign.=C2=A0 NETCONF and HTTP support chunking, which is used extensively b=
y</div><div>streaming servers. This draft should mention streaming and expl=
ain why it is not supported.</div><div><br></div><div>The generic wrappers =
(like gNMI and YANG notification schema) do not handle &quot;anydata&quot; =
very well at all.</div><div>The binary payload becomes mostly JSON.=C2=A0 O=
nly CBOR+SID handles anydata efficiently.</div><div>The solution (maybe out=
side the scope of this protocol) should consider how YANG anydata</div><div=
>will be transmitted efficiently and converted from anydata to a real schem=
a correctly by the receiver.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gm=
ail-m_-1398828553854545148WordSection1"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0<u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Regards,<br>
Rob<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail=
-m_-1398828553854545148WordSection1"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> netconf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf-b=
ounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Watsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 07 August 2020 21:16<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif<span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">[as a contributor]<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01) is the pro=
blem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I believe that it is important =
to enable publishers to send notifications using a UDP-based transport. =C2=
=A0 This belief is based on my experience from when at Juniper
 dealing with very high-end firewalls with enormous log output.<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">I believe=
 that the=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB">NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG=
 for this work, having defined RFC 8639 (SN),=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:bla=
ck">RFC
 8640 (NN), and=C2=A0</span>RFC 8650 (RN).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02) is the dra=
ft a suitable basis for the work?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I have read the current version=
 of the draft and find it to be a reasonable start.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Presuming the =E2=80=9Creceiver=
-instances=E2=80=9D augmentation defined in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3</a=
>=C2=A0takes
 off, the module defined in this draft should be updated to augment into it=
 instead.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">I appreci=
ate Section 5 (Applicability) noting that the UDP-transport is primarily fo=
r the data plane (not the control plane), as it doesn=E2=80=99t
 matter so much if data plane notifications are lost.=C2=A0 This addresses =
(I think) the issue that Rob Shakir raised before:
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf" target=3D"=
_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf</a>=C2=A0(sear=
ch for =E2=80=9CRob S=E2=80=9D).=C2=A0 That said, it is unclear to me how a=
 receiver could configure this while, e.g., configuring control
 plane notifications to be sent via a TCP-based transport such as =E2=80=9C=
https-notif=E2=80=9D.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">3) regard=
ing Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 a)=
 I am willing to substantially review the drafts.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 b)=
 I am=C2=A0willing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 c)=
 I do NOT=C2=A0plan to implement the technology defined.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">Kent</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>

--0000000000002f9b6705adcb28a7--


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From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
Thread-Index: AQHWa3XJ0mBLbRaES02VUjy2aRVTDKkskgcAgBDbzICAAJAcAIAMIxLggAAetwCAAQUpEA==
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 01:50:51 +0000
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In-Reply-To: <07b991b1e32347b58ae4ef968cdffc7f@huawei.com>
From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 12:14:01 -0700
Message-ID: <CABCOCHRSE9nRE=UNe_yPeAhUVCMFM0w6n9e==QcA-fNiRFJFUA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/0B-r_IMYNSw5srBELSrp5EIBMD0>
Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 6:50 PM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote=
:

> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your reply and suggestions.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tianran
>
>
>
> *From:* Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2020 1:29 AM
> *To:* Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
> netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:17 AM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Tianran
>
>
>
> *From:* netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andy
> Bierman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:18 AM
> *To:* Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Cc:* netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> [Also as a contributor]
>
>
>
> My comments are broadly similar to Kent=E2=80=99s.
>
>
>
> I believe that a UDP transport for dataplane telemetry where getting
> accurate fresh data quickly is more important than getting every update.
> This is particularly true if a subsequent notification will cover any los=
t
> values anyway (e.g. periodic statistics).
>
>
>
>
>
> agreed.
>
> There is also the resync-subscription mechanism to help recover from
> missing data.
>
>
>
> [ztr] Our intention of using UDP is for data that do not care about
> occasional loss. Typically for period data, and new data will anyway came
> and update.
>
> Does the =E2=80=9Cresync-subscription=E2=80=9D mean the retransmission? H=
ere do you want
> to add the =E2=80=9Cresync-subscription mechanism=E2=80=9D when packet lo=
ss is detected
> in this draft?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This is explained in RFC 8641
>
>
>
> ZTR> Yes, I looked into RFC8641. It=E2=80=99s the same as what I understa=
nd as
> =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D. Two key points on =E2=80=9Cresync-subsc=
ription=E2=80=9D from my
> perspective.
>
> 1. =E2=80=9CThis RPC is supported only for on-change subscriptions previo=
usly
> established using an "establish-subscription" RPC.=E2=80=9D
>
> 2. =E2=80=9COn receipt, a publisher must either (1) accept the request an=
d quickly
> follow with a "push-update" or =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> So, what=E2=80=99s your suggestion here?
>
> To support this? Or not support this and add text explicitly in the
> document.
>


Nothing to add to this document.
I was just noting that YANG Push does not rely on every push-change-update
notification to be delivered.  The application layer will re-synch by
itself.



>
>
>
> I suspect that having a mechanism to allow for the telemetry data being
> encrypted is probably also important.  If the WG were to adopt a draft
> without this, then as Benoit mentioned, I would have to test the water wi=
th
> the IESG to determine whether that would be acceptable.
>
>
>
> I suspect the lack of congestion control might get their attention as wel=
l.
>
>
>
> [ztr] Yes, I agree, both security and congestion considerations need to b=
e
> described in the document. We have section 4 for congestion control. Do y=
ou
> have any idea on this?
>
>
>
>
>
> no -- I can't solve problems that IETF creates for itself.
>
> I think the draft says something like "do not use this protocol if
> congestion is a concern".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I also note that the draft allows for a GPB encoding of the telemetry
> data, but I=E2=80=99m not aware of any formal standard encoding of YANG d=
ata in
> GPB, and there is a choice between whether the GPB encoding is generic fo=
r
> all YANG data, or specific GPB encodings are useful for the specific data
> that is being encoded.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I was confused by the same thing.
>
> Is there a YANG schema for a notification element that is used?
>
> Which means the .proto file is hardwired?
>
> If not then how does the receiver know what is sent?
>
> There are some technical issues that can be addressed if the draft is
> adopted.
>
>
>
> [ztr] In this draft we only consider to include a code point to indicate
> the GPB encoding. How to map YANG to GPB is out of the scope of this draf=
t.
>
> In practice, there are several ways in my opinion.
>
> We can map YANG to proto firstly, and the proto actually describes the
> data structure. I think YANG can almost translate to proto 1:1.
>
> We can also develop YANG to GPB directly, just like YANG to XML and JSON.
>
> In brief, the receiver can still know what is sent by YANG.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't think the protocol should include placeholders for
> proprietary solutions.
>
> Either leave out GPB completely or support it in an interoperable way.
>
>
>
> ZTR> We have no position on this. If the WG agreed, we would like to leav=
e
> out GPB.
>


What about just adding a 32-bit report-id field to the header
This is enough. Assignment of the IDs is out of scope.



>
>
> More issues:
>
>
>
> This protocol is not usable by servers that stream data instead of
> building an entire response
>
> in memory. With a streaming design the server doesn't know what will be
> sent in advance so
>
> it sure doesn't know the length in advance.  CBOR does a great job of
> supporting both
>
> types of server design.  NETCONF and HTTP support chunking, which is used
> extensively by
>
> streaming servers. This draft should mention streaming and explain why it
> is not supported.
>
>
>
> ZTR> If you mean bit streaming like TCP, I think UDP cannot support this.
> Do you have any pointer on how CBOR can support the streaming. And how
> NETCONF and HTTP support chunking.
>
> In general, I understand this requirement with small memory or partial
> data. But do you have any real case in the context of YANG push? So that =
we
> can work on an optimal design.
>


I think it is OK to say that a server is expected to build an entire
response
and the length needs to be known in advance, if fragmentation is not
enabled.
A server can stream data OK if UDP fragmentation is enabled. CoAP uses the
Block option
to support streaming.





>
>
> The generic wrappers (like gNMI and YANG notification schema) do not
> handle "anydata" very well at all.
>
> The binary payload becomes mostly JSON.  Only CBOR+SID handles anydata
> efficiently.
>
> The solution (maybe outside the scope of this protocol) should consider
> how YANG anydata
>
> will be transmitted efficiently and converted from anydata to a real
> schema correctly by the receiver.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> Andy
>



Andy


>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Kent Watsen
> *Sent:* 07 August 2020 21:16
> *To:* netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>
>
>
> [as a contributor]
>
>
>
>
>
>    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>
>
>
> I believe that it is important to enable publishers to send notifications
> using a UDP-based transport.   This belief is based on my experience from
> when at Juniper dealing with very high-end firewalls with enormous log
> output.
>
>
>
> I believe that the NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, having
> defined RFC 8639 (SN), RFC 8640 (NN), and RFC 8650 (RN).
>
>
>
>
>
>    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
>
> I have read the current version of the draft and find it to be a
> reasonable start.
>
>
>
> Presuming the =E2=80=9Creceiver-instances=E2=80=9D augmentation defined i=
n
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3 t=
akes
> off, the module defined in this draft should be updated to augment into i=
t
> instead.
>
>
>
> I appreciate Section 5 (Applicability) noting that the UDP-transport is
> primarily for the data plane (not the control plane), as it doesn=E2=80=
=99t matter
> so much if data plane notifications are lost.  This addresses (I think) t=
he
> issue that Rob Shakir raised before:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf (search for =E2=80=
=9CRob
> S=E2=80=9D).  That said, it is unclear to me how a receiver could configu=
re this
> while, e.g., configuring control plane notifications to be sent via a
> TCP-based transport such as =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
>
>
> 3) regarding Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:
>
>
>
>   a) I am willing to substantially review the drafts.
>
>   b) I am willing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.
>
>   c) I do NOT plan to implement the technology defined.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kent
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 6:50 PM Tianr=
an Zhou &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com">zhoutianran@huawei.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
>





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_7251847969044302012WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Andy,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks for your reply and suggestions.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Tianran<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"> Andy Bierman [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:andy@yumaworks.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">andy@yumaworks.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 27, 2020 1:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tianran Zhou &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Rob Wilton (rwilton) &lt;rwilton=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com=
@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:17 AM Tianran Zhou &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Andy,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Please see inline.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Tianran</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"> netconf [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">netconf-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andy Bierman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rob Wilton (rwilton) &lt;rwilton=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com=
@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton)=
 &lt;rwilton=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Hi,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">[Also as a contributor]</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">My comments are broadly similar=
 to Kent=E2=80=99s.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I believe that a UDP transport =
for dataplane telemetry where getting accurate fresh data quickly is more i=
mportant than getting every update.=C2=A0 This is particularly
 true if a subsequent notification will cover any lost values anyway (e.g. =
periodic statistics).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">agreed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There is also the resync-subscription mechanism to h=
elp recover from missing data.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">[ztr] Our intention of using UDP is for data that do not care abo=
ut occasional loss. Typically for period data, and
 new data will anyway came and update.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Does the =E2=80=9C</span>resync-subscription<span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=E2=80=9D mean the retransmission?
 Here do you want to add the =E2=80=9C</span>resync-subscription mechanism<=
span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=E2=80=9D when=
 packet loss is detected in this draft?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is explained in RFC 8641<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">ZTR&gt; Yes, I looked into RFC8641. It=E2=80=
=99s the same as what I understand as =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D. Two=
 key points on =E2=80=9Cresync-subscription=E2=80=9D from my perspective.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">1. =E2=80=9CThis RPC is supported only for o=
n-change subscriptions previously established using an &quot;establish-subs=
cription&quot; RPC.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">2. =E2=80=9COn receipt, a publisher must eit=
her (1) accept the request and quickly follow with a &quot;push-update&quot=
; or =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">So, what=E2=80=99s your suggestion here?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">To support this? Or not support this and add=
 text explicitly in the document.
</span>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>Nothing to add to this document.</div><div>I was just n=
oting that YANG Push does not rely on every push-change-update</div><div>no=
tification to be delivered.=C2=A0 The application layer will re-synch by it=
self.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_72518479690443020=
12WordSection1"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I suspect that having a mechani=
sm to allow for the telemetry data being encrypted is probably also importa=
nt.=C2=A0 If the WG were to adopt a draft without this, then
 as Benoit mentioned, I would have to test the water with the IESG to deter=
mine whether that would be acceptable.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suspect the lack of congestion control might get t=
heir attention as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">[ztr] Yes, I agree, both security and congestion considerations n=
eed to be described in the document. We have section
 4 for congestion control. Do you have any idea on this?</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">no -- I can&#39;t solve problems that IETF creates f=
or itself.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think the draft says something like &quot;do not u=
se this protocol if congestion is a concern&quot;.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I also note that the draft allo=
ws for a GPB encoding of the telemetry data, but I=E2=80=99m not aware of a=
ny formal standard encoding of YANG data in GPB, and there is
 a choice between whether the GPB encoding is generic for all YANG data, or=
 specific GPB encodings are useful for the specific data that is being enco=
ded.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I was confused by the same thing.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is there a YANG schema for a notification element th=
at is used?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Which means the .proto file is hardwired?<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If not then how does the receiver know what is sent?=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There are some technical issues that can be addresse=
d if the draft is adopted.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">[ztr] In this draft we only consider to include a code point to i=
ndicate the GPB encoding. How to map YANG to GPB
 is out of the scope of this draft.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">In practice, there are several ways in my opinion.</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">We can map YANG to proto firstly, and the proto actually describe=
s the data structure. I think YANG can almost translate
 to proto 1:1.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">We can also develop YANG to GPB directly, just like YANG to XML a=
nd JSON.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">In brief, the receiver can still know what is sent by YANG.</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don&#39;t think the protocol should include placeh=
olders for proprietary=C2=A0solutions.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Either leave out GPB completely or support it in an =
interoperable way.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">ZTR&gt; We have no position on this. If the =
WG agreed, we would like to leave out GPB.</span></p></div></div></div></di=
v></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>What about just add=
ing a 32-bit report-id field to the header</div><div>This is enough. Assign=
ment of the IDs is out of scope.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=
=3D"gmail-m_7251847969044302012WordSection1"><div><div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:=
rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">More issues:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This protocol is not usable by servers that stream d=
ata instead of building an entire response<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">in memory. With a streaming design the server doesn&=
#39;t know what will be sent in advance so<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">it sure doesn&#39;t know the length in advance.=C2=
=A0 CBOR does a great job of supporting both<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">types of server design.=C2=A0 NETCONF and HTTP suppo=
rt chunking, which is used extensively by<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">streaming servers. This draft should mention streami=
ng and explain why it is not supported.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">ZTR&gt; If you mean bit streaming like TCP, =
I think UDP cannot support this. Do you have any pointer on how CBOR can su=
pport the streaming. And how NETCONF and HTTP
 support chunking.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">In general, I understand this requirement wi=
th small memory or partial data. But do you have any real case in the conte=
xt of YANG push? So that we can work on
 an optimal design.</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div><br></div><div>I think it is OK to say that a server is e=
xpected to build an entire response</div><div>and the length needs to be kn=
own in advance, if fragmentation is not enabled.</div><div>A server can str=
eam data OK if UDP fragmentation is enabled. CoAP uses the Block option</di=
v><div>to support streaming.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></=
div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_7251847969044302012WordSection1"><div=
><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The generic wrappers (like gNMI and YANG notificatio=
n schema) do not handle &quot;anydata&quot; very well at all.<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The binary payload becomes mostly JSON.=C2=A0 Only C=
BOR+SID handles anydata efficiently.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The solution (maybe outside the scope of this protoc=
ol) should consider how YANG anydata<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">will be transmitted efficiently and converted from a=
nydata to a real schema correctly by the receiver.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Regards,<br>
Rob</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div>=C2=A0</div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div=
 class=3D"gmail-m_7251847969044302012WordSection1"><div><div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> netconf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf-b=
ounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Watsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 07 August 2020 21:16<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">[as a contributor]</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01) is the pro=
blem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I believe that it is important =
to enable publishers to send notifications using a UDP-based transport. =C2=
=A0 This belief is based on my experience from when at Juniper
 dealing with very high-end firewalls with enormous log output.</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">I believe=
 that the=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB">NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG=
 for this work, having defined RFC 8639 (SN),=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:bla=
ck">RFC
 8640 (NN), and=C2=A0</span>RFC 8650 (RN).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02) is the dra=
ft a suitable basis for the work?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I have read the current version=
 of the draft and find it to be a reasonable start.</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Presuming the =E2=80=9Creceiver=
-instances=E2=80=9D augmentation defined in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3</a=
>=C2=A0takes
 off, the module defined in this draft should be updated to augment into it=
 instead.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">I appreci=
ate Section 5 (Applicability) noting that the UDP-transport is primarily fo=
r the data plane (not the control plane), as it doesn=E2=80=99t
 matter so much if data plane notifications are lost.=C2=A0 This addresses =
(I think) the issue that Rob Shakir raised before:
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf" target=3D"=
_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf</a>=C2=A0(sear=
ch for =E2=80=9CRob S=E2=80=9D).=C2=A0 That said, it is unclear to me how a=
 receiver could configure this while, e.g., configuring control
 plane notifications to be sent via a TCP-based transport such as =E2=80=9C=
https-notif=E2=80=9D.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">3) regard=
ing Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 a)=
 I am willing to substantially review the drafts.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 b)=
 I am=C2=A0willing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 c)=
 I do NOT=C2=A0plan to implement the technology defined.</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">Kent</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000d4a2de05ade0bda0--


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In-Reply-To: <7b77f6ff39d4430aa549c9b53b902dde@huawei.com>
From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:39:36 -0700
Message-ID: <CABCOCHRV_4UUOjK-qhrw7nw961sdTCv238FcuSVNKZVc+0TKgQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/9yaHwN6ORzTyLUzBrEi_KnDq1To>
Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
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Hi,

I am still very confused about the content. Not the encoding. That is a
separate issue.
Sec 2, and 3.1 refer to the "subscription-started" notification and
"the NETCONF/RESTCONF notification message".

This text seems to imply that the <notification> element defined in RFC 527=
7
is used for the content.  But sec. 3.4 mentions bundled notifications so
maybe not.

Usually the application protocol defines the message flows that are
expected.
This document is a transport protocol for an unspecified application.
There is
an assumption that publisher and receiver both know the protocol somehow.
For GDB, they magically know how to distinguish different proto files.

IMO this level of disregard for interoperability is unacceptable for a
standard protocol.


Andy




On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 2:01 AM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote=
:

> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> Thanks again for your further comments.
>
>
>
> Tianran
>
>
>
> *From:* Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2020 3:14 AM
> *To:* Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
> netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 6:50 PM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your reply and suggestions.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tianran
>
>
>
> *From:* Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2020 1:29 AM
> *To:* Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
> netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:17 AM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Tianran
>
>
>
> *From:* netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andy
> Bierman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:18 AM
> *To:* Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Cc:* netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> [Also as a contributor]
>
>
>
> My comments are broadly similar to Kent=E2=80=99s.
>
>
>
> I believe that a UDP transport for dataplane telemetry where getting
> accurate fresh data quickly is more important than getting every update.
> This is particularly true if a subsequent notification will cover any los=
t
> values anyway (e.g. periodic statistics).
>
>
>
>
>
> agreed.
>
> There is also the resync-subscription mechanism to help recover from
> missing data.
>
>
>
> [ztr] Our intention of using UDP is for data that do not care about
> occasional loss. Typically for period data, and new data will anyway came
> and update.
>
> Does the =E2=80=9Cresync-subscription=E2=80=9D mean the retransmission? H=
ere do you want
> to add the =E2=80=9Cresync-subscription mechanism=E2=80=9D when packet lo=
ss is detected
> in this draft?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This is explained in RFC 8641
>
>
>
> ZTR> Yes, I looked into RFC8641. It=E2=80=99s the same as what I understa=
nd as
> =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D. Two key points on =E2=80=9Cresync-subsc=
ription=E2=80=9D from my
> perspective.
>
> 1. =E2=80=9CThis RPC is supported only for on-change subscriptions previo=
usly
> established using an "establish-subscription" RPC.=E2=80=9D
>
> 2. =E2=80=9COn receipt, a publisher must either (1) accept the request an=
d quickly
> follow with a "push-update" or =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> So, what=E2=80=99s your suggestion here?
>
> To support this? Or not support this and add text explicitly in the
> document.
>
>
>
>
>
> Nothing to add to this document.
>
> I was just noting that YANG Push does not rely on every push-change-updat=
e
>
> notification to be delivered.  The application layer will re-synch by
> itself.
>
>
>
> ZTR> Agreed. Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
> I suspect that having a mechanism to allow for the telemetry data being
> encrypted is probably also important.  If the WG were to adopt a draft
> without this, then as Benoit mentioned, I would have to test the water wi=
th
> the IESG to determine whether that would be acceptable.
>
>
>
> I suspect the lack of congestion control might get their attention as wel=
l.
>
>
>
> [ztr] Yes, I agree, both security and congestion considerations need to b=
e
> described in the document. We have section 4 for congestion control. Do y=
ou
> have any idea on this?
>
>
>
>
>
> no -- I can't solve problems that IETF creates for itself.
>
> I think the draft says something like "do not use this protocol if
> congestion is a concern".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I also note that the draft allows for a GPB encoding of the telemetry
> data, but I=E2=80=99m not aware of any formal standard encoding of YANG d=
ata in
> GPB, and there is a choice between whether the GPB encoding is generic fo=
r
> all YANG data, or specific GPB encodings are useful for the specific data
> that is being encoded.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I was confused by the same thing.
>
> Is there a YANG schema for a notification element that is used?
>
> Which means the .proto file is hardwired?
>
> If not then how does the receiver know what is sent?
>
> There are some technical issues that can be addressed if the draft is
> adopted.
>
>
>
> [ztr] In this draft we only consider to include a code point to indicate
> the GPB encoding. How to map YANG to GPB is out of the scope of this draf=
t.
>
> In practice, there are several ways in my opinion.
>
> We can map YANG to proto firstly, and the proto actually describes the
> data structure. I think YANG can almost translate to proto 1:1.
>
> We can also develop YANG to GPB directly, just like YANG to XML and JSON.
>
> In brief, the receiver can still know what is sent by YANG.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't think the protocol should include placeholders for
> proprietary solutions.
>
> Either leave out GPB completely or support it in an interoperable way.
>
>
>
> ZTR> We have no position on this. If the WG agreed, we would like to leav=
e
> out GPB.
>
>
>
>
>
> What about just adding a 32-bit report-id field to the header
>
> This is enough. Assignment of the IDs is out of scope.
>
>
>
>  ZTR> Sorry, I did not get you on what=E2=80=99s this 32-bit report-id? W=
e have a
> 4 bit encoding type field, which can support 16 encodings. We can set thi=
s
> as a registry and defer the assignment of GPB.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> More issues:
>
>
>
> This protocol is not usable by servers that stream data instead of
> building an entire response
>
> in memory. With a streaming design the server doesn't know what will be
> sent in advance so
>
> it sure doesn't know the length in advance.  CBOR does a great job of
> supporting both
>
> types of server design.  NETCONF and HTTP support chunking, which is used
> extensively by
>
> streaming servers. This draft should mention streaming and explain why it
> is not supported.
>
>
>
> ZTR> If you mean bit streaming like TCP, I think UDP cannot support this.
> Do you have any pointer on how CBOR can support the streaming. And how
> NETCONF and HTTP support chunking.
>
> In general, I understand this requirement with small memory or partial
> data. But do you have any real case in the context of YANG push? So that =
we
> can work on an optimal design.
>
>
>
>
>
> I think it is OK to say that a server is expected to build an entire
> response
>
> and the length needs to be known in advance, if fragmentation is not
> enabled.
>
> A server can stream data OK if UDP fragmentation is enabled. CoAP uses th=
e
> Block option
>
> to support streaming.
>
>
>
> ZTR> Got it. Yes, this draft enables UDP fragmentation which can support
> data streaming.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The generic wrappers (like gNMI and YANG notification schema) do not
> handle "anydata" very well at all.
>
> The binary payload becomes mostly JSON.  Only CBOR+SID handles anydata
> efficiently.
>
> The solution (maybe outside the scope of this protocol) should consider
> how YANG anydata
>
> will be transmitted efficiently and converted from anydata to a real
> schema correctly by the receiver.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Kent Watsen
> *Sent:* 07 August 2020 21:16
> *To:* netconf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for
> draft-unyte-netconf-udp-notif
>
>
>
> [as a contributor]
>
>
>
>
>
>    1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>
>
>
> I believe that it is important to enable publishers to send notifications
> using a UDP-based transport.   This belief is based on my experience from
> when at Juniper dealing with very high-end firewalls with enormous log
> output.
>
>
>
> I believe that the NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG for this work, having
> defined RFC 8639 (SN), RFC 8640 (NN), and RFC 8650 (RN).
>
>
>
>
>
>    2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
>
> I have read the current version of the draft and find it to be a
> reasonable start.
>
>
>
> Presuming the =E2=80=9Creceiver-instances=E2=80=9D augmentation defined i=
n
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3 t=
akes
> off, the module defined in this draft should be updated to augment into i=
t
> instead.
>
>
>
> I appreciate Section 5 (Applicability) noting that the UDP-transport is
> primarily for the data plane (not the control plane), as it doesn=E2=80=
=99t matter
> so much if data plane notifications are lost.  This addresses (I think) t=
he
> issue that Rob Shakir raised before:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf (search for =E2=80=
=9CRob
> S=E2=80=9D).  That said, it is unclear to me how a receiver could configu=
re this
> while, e.g., configuring control plane notifications to be sent via a
> TCP-based transport such as =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
>
>
> 3) regarding Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:
>
>
>
>   a) I am willing to substantially review the drafts.
>
>   b) I am willing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.
>
>   c) I do NOT plan to implement the technology defined.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kent
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>I am still very confused=
 about the content. Not the encoding. That is a separate issue.</div><div>S=
ec 2, and 3.1 refer to the &quot;subscription-started&quot; notification an=
d</div><div>&quot;the NETCONF/RESTCONF notification message&quot;.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>This text seems to imply that the &lt;notification&gt; ele=
ment defined in RFC 5277</div><div>is used for the content.=C2=A0 But sec. =
3.4 mentions bundled notifications so maybe not.</div><div><br></div><div>U=
sually the application protocol defines the message flows that are expected=
.</div><div>This document is a transport protocol for an unspecified applic=
ation.=C2=A0 There is</div><div>an assumption that publisher and receiver b=
oth know the protocol somehow.</div><div>For GDB, they magically know how t=
o distinguish different proto files.</div><div><br></div><div>IMO this leve=
l of disregard for interoperability is unacceptable for a standard protocol=
.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div><div><br=
></div><div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 2:01 AM Tianran Zhou &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_5779182006193423672WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Andy,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks again for your further comments.<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Tianran<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"> Andy Bierman [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:andy@yumaworks.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">andy@yumaworks.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 28, 2020 3:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tianran Zhou &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Rob Wilton (rwilton) &lt;rwilton=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com=
@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 6:50 PM Tianran Zhou &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Andy,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks for your reply and suggestions.</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Tianran</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"> Andy Bierman [mailto:</span><a href=3D"mailto:andy@yumawor=
ks.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">andy@yumaworks.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif">]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 27, 2020 1:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tianran Zhou &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com=
" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif">zhoutianran@huawei.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif">&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Rob Wilton (rwilton) &lt;rwilton=3D</span><a href=3D"mailto:40ci=
sco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">&gt;;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">netconf@ietf.org</span></a>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:17 AM Tianran Zhou &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Andy,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Please see inline.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Tianran</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"> netconf [mailto:</span><a href=3D"mailto:netconf-bounces@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibr=
i,sans-serif">netconf-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andy Bierman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rob Wilton (rwilton) &lt;rwilton=3D</span><a href=3D"mailto:40ci=
sco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">netconf@ietf.org=
</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b=
r>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton)=
 &lt;rwilton=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Hi,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">[Also as a contributor]</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">My comments are broadly similar=
 to Kent=E2=80=99s.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I believe that a UDP transport =
for dataplane telemetry where getting accurate fresh data quickly is more i=
mportant than getting every update.=C2=A0 This is particularly
 true if a subsequent notification will cover any lost values anyway (e.g. =
periodic statistics).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">agreed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There is also the resync-subscription mechanism to h=
elp recover from missing data.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">[ztr] Our intention of using UDP is for data that do not care abo=
ut occasional loss. Typically for period data, and
 new data will anyway came and update.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Does the =E2=80=9C</span>resync-subscription<span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=E2=80=9D mean the retransmission?
 Here do you want to add the =E2=80=9C</span>resync-subscription mechanism<=
span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=E2=80=9D when=
 packet loss is detected in this draft?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is explained in RFC 8641<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">ZTR&gt; Yes, I looked into RFC8641. It=E2=80=
=99s the same as what I understand as =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D. Two=
 key points
 on =E2=80=9Cresync-subscription=E2=80=9D from my perspective.</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">1. =E2=80=9CThis RPC is supported only for o=
n-change subscriptions previously established using an &quot;establish-subs=
cription&quot;
 RPC.=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">2. =E2=80=9COn receipt, a publisher must eit=
her (1) accept the request and quickly follow with a &quot;push-update&quot=
;
 or =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">So, what=E2=80=99s your suggestion here?
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">To support this? Or not support this and add=
 text explicitly in the document.
</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Nothing to add to this document.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I was just noting that YANG Push does not rely on ev=
ery push-change-update<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">notification to be delivered.=C2=A0 The application =
layer will re-synch by itself.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">ZTR&gt; Agreed.=
 Thanks.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I suspect that having a mechani=
sm to allow for the telemetry data being encrypted is probably also importa=
nt.=C2=A0 If the WG were to adopt a draft without this, then
 as Benoit mentioned, I would have to test the water with the IESG to deter=
mine whether that would be acceptable.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suspect the lack of congestion control might get t=
heir attention as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">[ztr] Yes, I agree, both security and congestion considerations n=
eed to be described in the document. We have section
 4 for congestion control. Do you have any idea on this?</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">no -- I can&#39;t solve problems that IETF creates f=
or itself.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think the draft says something like &quot;do not u=
se this protocol if congestion is a concern&quot;.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I also note that the draft allo=
ws for a GPB encoding of the telemetry data, but I=E2=80=99m not aware of a=
ny formal standard encoding of YANG data in GPB, and there is
 a choice between whether the GPB encoding is generic for all YANG data, or=
 specific GPB encodings are useful for the specific data that is being enco=
ded.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I was confused by the same thing.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is there a YANG schema for a notification element th=
at is used?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Which means the .proto file is hardwired?<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If not then how does the receiver know what is sent?=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There are some technical issues that can be addresse=
d if the draft is adopted.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">[ztr] In this draft we only consider to include a code point to i=
ndicate the GPB encoding. How to map YANG to GPB
 is out of the scope of this draft.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">In practice, there are several ways in my opinion.</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">We can map YANG to proto firstly, and the proto actually describe=
s the data structure. I think YANG can almost translate
 to proto 1:1.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">We can also develop YANG to GPB directly, just like YANG to XML a=
nd JSON.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">In brief, the receiver can still know what is sent by YANG.</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don&#39;t think the protocol should include placeh=
olders for proprietary=C2=A0solutions.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Either leave out GPB completely or support it in an =
interoperable way.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">ZTR&gt; We have no position on this. If the =
WG agreed, we would like to leave out GPB.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What about just adding a 32-bit report-id field to t=
he header<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is enough. Assignment of the IDs is out of scop=
e.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">ZTR&gt; S=
orry, I did not get you on what=E2=80=99s this 32-bit report-id? We have a =
4 bit encoding type field, which can support 16 encodings. We can set this =
as a registry and defer the assignment of GPB.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">More issues:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This protocol is not usable by servers that stream d=
ata instead of building an entire response<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">in memory. With a streaming design the server doesn&=
#39;t know what will be sent in advance so<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">it sure doesn&#39;t know the length in advance.=C2=
=A0 CBOR does a great job of supporting both<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">types of server design.=C2=A0 NETCONF and HTTP suppo=
rt chunking, which is used extensively by<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">streaming servers. This draft should mention streami=
ng and explain why it is not supported.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">ZTR&gt; If you mean bit streaming like TCP, =
I think UDP cannot support this. Do you have any pointer on
 how CBOR can support the streaming. And how NETCONF and HTTP support chunk=
ing.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">In general, I understand this requirement wi=
th small memory or partial data. But do you have any real
 case in the context of YANG push? So that we can work on an optimal design=
.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think it is OK to say that a server is expected to=
 build an entire response<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and the length needs to be known in advance, if frag=
mentation is not enabled.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A server can stream data OK if UDP fragmentation is =
enabled. CoAP uses the Block option<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">to support streaming.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">ZTR&gt; Got it.=
 Yes, this draft enables UDP fragmentation which can support data streaming=
.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The generic wrappers (like gNMI and YANG notificatio=
n schema) do not handle &quot;anydata&quot; very well at all.<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The binary payload becomes mostly JSON.=C2=A0 Only C=
BOR+SID handles anydata efficiently.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The solution (maybe outside the scope of this protoc=
ol) should consider how YANG anydata<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">will be transmitted efficiently and converted from a=
nydata to a real schema correctly by the receiver.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Regards,<br>
Rob</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> netconf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf-b=
ounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Watsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 07 August 2020 21:16<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netconf] Adoption-suitability for draft-unyte-netconf-=
udp-notif<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">[as a contributor]</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01) is the pro=
blem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I believe that it is important =
to enable publishers to send notifications using a UDP-based transport. =C2=
=A0 This belief is based on my experience from when at Juniper
 dealing with very high-end firewalls with enormous log output.</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">I believe=
 that the=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB">NETCONF WG is the appropriate WG=
 for this work, having defined RFC 8639 (SN),=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:bla=
ck">RFC
 8640 (NN), and=C2=A0</span>RFC 8650 (RN).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02) is the dra=
ft a suitable basis for the work?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I have read the current version=
 of the draft and find it to be a reasonable start.</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Presuming the =E2=80=9Creceiver=
-instances=E2=80=9D augmentation defined in=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://=
tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-04#section-3" target=3D"=
_blank"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf=
-https-notif-04#section-3</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0takes
 off, the module defined in this draft should be updated to augment into it=
 instead.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">I appreci=
ate Section 5 (Applicability) noting that the UDP-transport is primarily fo=
r the data plane (not the control plane), as it doesn=E2=80=99t
 matter so much if data plane notifications are lost.=C2=A0 This addresses =
(I think) the issue that Rob Shakir raised before:
</span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-103-netconf" tar=
get=3D"_blank"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minute=
s-103-netconf</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0(s=
earch for =E2=80=9CRob S=E2=80=9D).=C2=A0 That said, it is unclear to
 me how a receiver could configure this while, e.g., configuring control pl=
ane notifications to be sent via a TCP-based transport such as =E2=80=9Chtt=
ps-notif=E2=80=9D.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">3) regard=
ing Juergen=E2=80=99s questions:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 a)=
 I am willing to substantially review the drafts.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 b)=
 I am=C2=A0willing to contribute to the discussion of any issue.</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0 c)=
 I do NOT=C2=A0plan to implement the technology defined.</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">Kent</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
netconf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>

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