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Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:46:25 +0000 From: Lou Berger To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Reminder: NETMOD Versioning Interim - Feb 20221 Thread-Index: AQHW9yrKB9PRlYue8ki1i0z2acsW0KpDMWaL Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:46:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1684132479.3772201610726832270.JavaMail.nobody@rva2rmd101.webex.com> <010001775445ff80-f95d5d0d-8bda-4524-b092-cf3a1c2a5865-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010001775445ff80-f95d5d0d-8bda-4524-b092-cf3a1c2a5865-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=labn.net; x-originating-ip: [100.15.108.238] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 54cc8547-c161-4072-f5d3-08d8c6a700f1 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR14MB3859: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:1303; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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boundary="_000_BL0PR14MB37791D446B1EF70420514911C3B69BL0PR14MB3779namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: labn.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL0PR14MB3779.namprd14.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 54cc8547-c161-4072-f5d3-08d8c6a700f1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Feb 2021 11:46:24.9375 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: eb60ac54-2184-4344-9b60-40c8b2b72561 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: VhCeUoCsx1yHTV8/utfzhMw+poagc4W/txFVBBS0tNTsj4wZmHO/ZkRDs7GD/YW+3trcLtzIk7e0ihMe0fT7Qw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR14MB3859 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Reminder: NETMOD Versioning Interim - Feb 20221 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 11:46:31 -0000 --_000_BL0PR14MB37791D446B1EF70420514911C3B69BL0PR14MB3779namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fyi here is the link to the meeting materials: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-netmod-01/session/netmod ________________________________ On January 30, 2021 12:10:21 PM Kent Watsen wrote: NETMOD is hosting a virtual interim this coming Monday (in ~45 hours). ICS file attached to this message. NETMOD Agenda for Interim (virtual) Date February 1, 2021 Start Time 14:30 UTC Duration 90 minutes Time Zone Converter: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=3D20210201T1= 43000&p1=3D1440&p2=3D37&p3=3D438&p4=3D33&p5=3D248&p6=3D224&p7=3D179 Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-netmod-01/session/ne= tmodNotes Notes & BlueSheet: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2021-netmod-01-netmod WebEx: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8ee8976e972cc17b725f3ce1900b0= cd0 Jabber: xmpp:netmod@jabber.ietf.org?join Agenda: 1 Topic Intro & Administrivia Presenter: Chairs 2 Topic Module Versioning: Presenter: Authors Follow on to https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-netmod-03/session/netmod Virtual Bluesheet Begin forwarded message: From: NETMOD Working Group = > Subject: Webex meeting changed: NetMod YANG Versioning Interim - Feb 20221 Date: January 15, 2021 at 11:07:12 AM EST To: netmod-chairs@ietf.org Resent-From: > Resent-To: joelja@bogus.com, kent+ietf@watsen.net<= mailto:kent+ietf@watsen.net>, lberger@labn.net Reply-To: netmod-chairs@ietf.org NETMOD Working Group changed the Webex meeting information. When it's time, join the Webex meeting here. Monday, February 1, 2021 9:30 am | (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) | 1 hr 30 mins Join meeting More ways to join: Join from the meeting link https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8ee8976e972cc17b725f3ce1900b0cd0 Join by meeting number Meeting number (access code): 178 198 8377 Meeting password: Versioning Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only) +1-650-479-3208,,1781988377## Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Join by phone 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Global call-in numbers Join from a video system or application Dial 1781988377@ietf.webex.com You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number. Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business Dial 1781988377.ietf@lync.webex.com Need help? Go to https://help.webex.com --_000_BL0PR14MB37791D446B1EF70420514911C3B69BL0PR14MB3779namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Fyi here is the link to the m= eeting materials:

https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-netmod-01/session/netmod

On January 30, 2021 12:10:21 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wr= ote:


ICS file attached to this message.

NETMOD Agenda for Interim (virtual)

Date            February 1, 2= 021
Start Time      14:30 UTC
Duration        90 minutes

Time Zone Converter:
     = https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=3D20210201T143000= &p1=3D1440&p2=3D37&p3=3D438&p4=3D33&p5=3D248&p6=3D2= 24&p7=3D179
Slides:
     https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-netmod-01/session/netmodNotes
Notes & BlueSheet:
    https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2021-netmod-01-netmod
WebEx:
    https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8ee8976e972cc17b725f3ce1900b0cd0<= /a>
Jabber:
    xmpp:netmod@jabber.ie= tf.org?join

Agenda:

1       Topic   Intro & Administriv= ia
Presenter:      Chairs

2 Topic Module Versioning:
Presenter: Authors
Follow on to
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting= /interim-2020-netmod-03/session/netmod
Virtual Bluesheet



Begin forwarded message:

From: NETMOD Working Group <messenger@webex.com>
Subject: Webex meeting changed: Ne= tMod YANG Versioning Interim - Feb 20221
Date: January 15, 2021 at 11:07:12 AM EST
To: netmod-chairs@ietf.org
Resent-From:= <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: <= /b>joelja@bogus.com, kent+ietf@watsen.net= , lberger@labn.net
Reply-To: netmod-chairs@ietf.org

 

NETMOD Working Group changed the Webex meeting information.
 

When it's time, join the Webex meeting here.
 
 
Monday, February 1, 2021
9:30 am  |  (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)&= nbsp; |  1 hr 30 mins
 
Join meeting
 
More ways to join:
Join from the meeting link
https://ietf.webex.com/i= etf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8ee8976e972cc17b725f3ce1900b0cd0
 
Join by meeting number
 
<= /font>
Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only)
+1-650-479-3208,,1781988377## Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
 
Join by phone
Call-in = toll number (US/Canada)
Global call-in numbers
 
Join from a video system or application
 1781988377@ietf.webex.com
 
Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business=
 1781988377.ietf@lync.webex.com
 
 
Need help? Go to https://help.webex.com
 

--_000_BL0PR14MB37791D446B1EF70420514911C3B69BL0PR14MB3779namp_-- From nobody Mon Feb 1 08:07:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1A5C3A128B for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 08:07:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id myFgBkG5wYgs for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 08:07:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A90443A1286 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 08:07:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.113] ([73.63.242.69]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPA id 111G75gd050256 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:07:06 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) X-Authentication-Warning: nagasaki.bogus.com: Host [73.63.242.69] claimed to be [192.168.0.113] To: NETMOD Working Group From: joel jaeggli Message-ID: <34b79644-24ab-f3a0-731e-68679112332a@bogus.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 08:06:59 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.16; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rdHBjSnVb5h86Y4JgSVpApgXK9oJfUdPE" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft minutes for 2/1/2020 Interim X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 16:07:09 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --rdHBjSnVb5h86Y4JgSVpApgXK9oJfUdPE Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="OGkLLng2MTiOGq5vI3ExyRbE8d66q3g8u"; protected-headers="v1" From: joel jaeggli To: NETMOD Working Group Message-ID: <34b79644-24ab-f3a0-731e-68679112332a@bogus.com> Subject: draft minutes for 2/1/2020 Interim --OGkLLng2MTiOGq5vI3ExyRbE8d66q3g8u Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These are based on the codimd which is editable https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2021-netmod-01-netmod?edit # NETMOD Agenda for Interim (virtual) Date February 1, 2021 Start Time 14:30 UTC Duration 90 minutes Time Zone Converter: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=3D20210201T1430= 00&p1=3D1440&p2=3D37&p3=3D438&p4=3D33&p5=3D248&p6=3D224&p7=3D179 Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-netmod-01/session/netmo= d Notes & BlueSheet: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2021-netmod-01-netmod WebEx: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8ee8976e972cc17b725f3ce1900b= 0cd0 Jabber: xmpp:netmod@jabber.ietf.org?join ## Agenda: ### 1 Topic Intro & Administrivia Presenter: Chairs lou berger presenting 14:35 ### 2 Topic Module Versioning: Presenter: Authors Follow on to https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-netmod-03/session/netmo= d #### T2) IANA considerations: how are final RFC revision labels assigned = ? > https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/59 > Rob Wilon presenting 14:40 kent: asking iana to retroactively put versions to drafts what is the guidance? rob: ask for a new interface type routing type those get updated automatically lou: does it make sense to put text to tell people when to not use a self managed iana module. rob: you could jason: looking for guidance on when iana would own the module vs when they would not - is that part out of scope? rob is addressing the guidlines for when you have iana manage it. lou: we don't want to necessarily open up the guideilnes RFC just for this one point so maybe include it in the yang versioning draft. lou: provide text to working group for review Joel(chair) the proposed approach (3rd slide) does not appear controversi= al #### T3) YANG file naming when revision labels are being used (symbolic links? > @) ? https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2021-netmod-01-sessa-revi= sion-label-filename/ Reshad Rahman presenting 14:53 First sub-issue (slide 2, @ vs # as delimiter) Kent: maybe try with pyang, yanglint, (yangson not likely impacted). ideally they just skip over the # items. I like the idea of the 2 approaches (old us @, new use #). Italo: does the new scheme allowed to deliver 2 versions of the same module on the same date? Reshad: no - we are keeping the same RFC7950 restrictions where only one new version of a module can be published on a particular day (revision date uniquely identifies a module version) Jan: would prefer to avoid duplicate files. An operator or system should use either @ or # (not a mix). Kent: system could reject the @ or # if they wish. That system could just have the names as they wish? Rob: I agree with Kent. Allowed to have both if wanted to, but would move to new scheme at some point (and use purely #). Second sub-issue (slide 3 - allowed char set in revision labels) Balazs: better to be restrictive and see if there is really a need. These are part of a filename so being very open can be dangerous Kent: certainly don't allow other chars that aren't in 7950 Rob: one extra char that we are adding is the + and maybe the comma. Design team isn't certain about comma and interaction with csv. Kent: call out the new chars in an email to the WG list #### T1) Definition/meaning of BC vs NBC for config false nodes > https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/15 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2021-netmod-01-sessa-stat= e-nbc-rules/ Balazs presenting 15:04 Jason: removing leafs (e.g. interface counters) feels like it should be NBC. But removing Balazs: Kent: the market may not be happy. removing should deprecate and then obsolete Jason: in theory that isn't needed because it is BC Kent: sure but it is still good practice Balazs: use mandatory for state leafs Lou: we may have to split out reducing value space on mandatory vs non-mandatory leafs. SOme clients may rely on it. Balazs: worried that we are encouraging servers to just stop returning a value instead of updating the model Lou: my automation system may rely on certain state, and certain values of state coming back Rob: agree with Lou. Splitting mandatory vs non-mandatory makes sense. Dangerious to allow optional data to just be removed from a model. General expectations are likely that leafs are returned and supported even if they aren't marked mandatory. Rob: e.g. counter on i/f that splits unicast/multicast/broadcast. You can't make that mandatory on all types of interfaces. Balazs: use "when" statements (when i/f type =3D x, then) Kent: to Lou's comment - removing the leaf vs removing an enum. We've been lax in marking state data as mandatory. Maybe we need to mark more as mandatory. Another point - expanding value space needs to be careful with patterns. Balazs: lengths, patterns, must statements should all be examined Jan: If nothing marked mandatory or in description, then can't rely on the data being returned. =2E.. lots of debate around use of mandatory in config false... Balazs: state has been best effort historically Kent: agree but maybe that isn't great and we should start getting more formal. Perhaps we should have been setting mandatory true on more state data. Let's not reverse the default of mandatory for state (that would need YANG NEXT). Balazs: 1 - how strict should we be? 2 - do we mark a removal of optional leafs as NBC just because of current expectations Rob: RFC7950 doesn't allow removal of optional state leafs today (you could deprecate or obsolete). Jason: we should avoid mandatory for state Kent: perhaps YANG NEXT is needed for new state rules (esp if we go against RFC7950) Balazs: we need to do something now, e.g. we should be allowed to add a mandatory state leaf Balazs: we should be more careful with state markings (mandatory). 2nd bullet should just be NBC for now (easier to get accepted). And reducing value space for mandatory is NBC. Rob: solving this properly is likely YANG NEXT. But we need something for the interim. So bullet 2 should be NBC for now with where we are tod= ay. Kent: client validating RPC reply could be seen as a developer aid for the server Rob: worth checking NMDA spec. Allows server to break those restraints (at least temporarily). Ok to flag up warnings, but refusing to accept data could be a problem in general. (consider config true & config false for this point) #### T4) SemVer: gaps in history, removing revision statements > https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/61 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2021-netmod-01-sessa-vers= ion-gaps/ Joe Clarke presenting 15:45 Kent: why strip any history at all? how is it possible that 1.2 isn't present? Joe: why strip? -> large amount of revision is cumbersome for humans. We don't recommend it, but wouldn't want to block it. why 1.2 missing? -> 1.2 might have been some internal revision. Kent: I don't believe we should worry about the human problem. I don't think we should allow gaps. Balazs: one important reason for gaps -> branching. 1.5 may be in a side branch. Kent: that sounds like internal merging issue. It is about managing expectations. I don't know any library that skips. A missing value is not expected. Joe: maybe a system publishes every odd version Jason: some publishers may have internal versions, and it would be painful to have a mapping from internal to external Rob: I see Kent's point and maybe a publisher doesn't have to actually publish all those versions. But they could keep those versions in the history. Jason: it could cause a lot of bloat in the history Joe: maybe soften the wording to encourage keeping all revisions? Then again if you went a year before publishing do you really want all those internal versions listed? 1600 conclusion # Virtual Bluesheet NAME AFFILIATION ------------------ 1. Lou Berger LabN Consulting, L.L.C. 1. Jason Sterne Nokia 1. Italo Busi Huawei 1. Reshad Rahman None 1. Robert Wilton Cisco 1. Kent Watsen Watsen Networks 1. Balazs Lengyel Ericsson 1. Joel Jaeggli Fastly 1. Jan Lindblad 1. Joe Clarke Cisco 1. Tom Hill 1. Xufeng Liu --OGkLLng2MTiOGq5vI3ExyRbE8d66q3g8u-- --rdHBjSnVb5h86Y4JgSVpApgXK9oJfUdPE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wmMEABEIACMWIQRcbgEEuvBAsFvTw4vwADWrtn9WsgUCYBgnIwUDAAAAAAAKCRDwADWrtn9WsuWo AKCFWh9TQcYYjp6bqYSF3bm2GhLzigCdH918lY6gDX5zKGbKdXIEFCuUESM= =IOah -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rdHBjSnVb5h86Y4JgSVpApgXK9oJfUdPE-- From nobody Tue Feb 2 14:46:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69073A0AA7 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 14:46:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.25, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTP_ESCAPED_HOST=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URI_HEX=0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-02 Agenda bashing: - quick recap on 4 topics - status of topics from previous interim - updates needed to yang versioning and yang semver drafts - whitespace - continue through Github issues Deadline on draft sunmissions is 3 weeks from now. Try to get first cut in= 2 weeks max. Summary of where we left off yesterday on the Virtual Interim topics: T3: - get feedback from WG on acceptable chars (especially highlight new ones) - no semicolon - 2 sets of files is acceptable, but systems will work with one in general - try with a few tools ( Reshad to try pyang and yanglint, Jan try confd wh= ich includes yanger, - someone try Yuma? (or ask Andy?) - try google tools ? maybe not worth it - Reshad to update draft with weekly call group & send updated snippets to = WG T2: - Lou asked to post comments on list. People happy with direction being pro= posed. - try drafting text to indicate when IANA owns a module vs a WG - Rob to propose text to WG T1: - nobody objected to defining NBC rules for config false - mix of opinions still? - deleting a leaf is NBC (to stay in sync with 7950 on this point, and like= ly more common expectations) - decreasing value space on optional leafs is BC (but decreasing it on mand= atory leafs is NBC ?) - this should also be considered in YANG NEXT - rules we define need to separate optional vs mandatory elements - Balasz to propose specific text to weekly call group first T4: - mostly aligned with slides - not recommended having gaps or removing history, but we won't disallow it - Joe to propose text to WG First interim topics: (A) import by revision or derived - not using revision-or-derived-compatible - impact of changing import statements: did we post back to the WG? Said i= t was BC (but you can mark it NBC if you wanted to) - Reshad the draft with the results (B) Whitespace >From the first virtual interim: JS: we need to decide if the version represents the file or the underlying YANG statements JC: no matter what we do, we'll need YANG-aware tooling (to go to the next level of analysis to see if what actually changed in the API) JL: time is almost up. Summary: no clear consensus - got rid of checksums from the scope, but whitespace topic was still open - you are *allowed* to bump the (editorial) version if you want to, but you= don't *have* to for insignificant whitespace changes - checksums in the future may have to be for a URL (i.e. there is not a che= cksum associated with version 3.2.2 of module-xxx, there is only a checksum= associated with url:\xxx\yyy\foo.yang) - comments? are they versioned? They can be more important than insig white= space - remember /n/r vs /n in unix vs dos - new IETF modules and updating IETF modules will have different revision l= abels during development vs the finally published RFC (so it doesn't matter= what we decide here) - note: tools refer to line numbers in yang files. - change in API hasn't changed, but the file describing the API changed - JS: we should focus on this issue and not let it go quiet until we come t= o a decision NETMOD Working Group changed the Webex meeting information. When it's time, join the Webex meeting here. Meeting number (access code): 171 069 0374 Meeting password: semver? Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, September 1, 2020 until Tuesday, Au= gust 24, 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & Cana= da) 9:00 am | (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) | 1 hr Join meeting Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only) +1-650-479-3208,,1710690374## Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Join by phone 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Global call-in numbers Join from a video system or application Dial 1710690374@ietf.webex.com<%20sip:1710690374@ietf.webex.com> You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number. Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business Dial 1710690374.ietf@lync.webex.com<%20sip:1710690374.ietf@lync.webex.com> Need help? Go to http://help.webex.com --_000_DM6PR08MB5084E67AC04A11E7E4A01DD69BB59DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-02

 

Agenda bashing:

- quick recap on 4 topics

- status of topics from previous interim<= /p>

- updates needed to yang versioning and yang semver = drafts

- whitespace

- continue through Github issues

 

Deadline on draft sunmissions is 3 weeks from now.&n= bsp; Try to get first cut in 2 weeks max.

 

Summary of where we left off yesterday on the Virtua= l Interim topics:

 

T3:

- get feedback from WG on acceptable chars (especial= ly highlight new ones)

- no semicolon

- 2 sets of files is acceptable, but systems will wo= rk with one in general

- try with a few tools ( Reshad to try pyang and yan= glint, Jan try confd which includes yanger,

- someone try Yuma?  (or ask Andy?)<= /p>

- try google tools ?  maybe not worth it

- Reshad to update draft with weekly call group &= ; send updated snippets to WG

 

T2:

- Lou asked to post comments on list. People happy w= ith direction being proposed.

- try drafting text to indicate when IANA owns a mod= ule vs a WG

- Rob to propose text to WG

 

T1:

- nobody objected to defining NBC rules for config f= alse

- mix of opinions still?

- deleting a leaf is NBC (to stay in sync with 7950 = on this point, and likely more common expectations)

- decreasing value space on optional leafs is BC (bu= t decreasing it on mandatory leafs is NBC ?)

- this should also be considered in YANG NEXT

- rules we define need to separate optional vs manda= tory elements

- Balasz to propose specific text to weekly call gro= up first

 

T4:

- mostly aligned with slides

- not recommended having gaps or removing history, b= ut we won't disallow it

- Joe to propose text to WG

 

First interim topics:

(A) import by revision or derived

- not using revision-or-derived-compatible

- impact of changing import statements: did we post = back to the WG?  Said it was BC (but you can mark it NBC if you wanted= to)

- Reshad the draft with the results

 

(B) Whitespace

 

From the first virtual interim:

 

   JS: we need to decide if the version re= presents

   the file or the underlying YANG st= atements

   JC: no matter what we do, we’ll n= eed YANG-aware

   tooling (to go to the next level o= f analysis to

   see if what actually changed in th= e API)

   JL: time is almost up. Summary: no clea= r consensus

 

- got rid of checksums from the scope, but whitespac= e topic was still open

- you are *allowed* to bump the (editorial) version = if you want to, but you don't *have* to for insignificant whitespace change= s

- checksums in the future may have to be for a URL (= i.e. there is not a checksum associated with version 3.2.2 of module-xxx, t= here is only a checksum associated with url:\xxx\yyy\foo.yang)

- comments? are they versioned? They can be more imp= ortant than insig whitespace

- remember /n/r vs /n in unix vs dos

- new IETF modules and updating IETF modules will ha= ve different revision labels during development vs the finally published RF= C (so it doesn't matter what we decide here)

- note: tools refer to line numbers in yang files.

- change in API hasn't changed, but the file describ= ing the API changed

- JS: we should focus on this issue and not let it g= o quiet until we come to a decision

 

 

NETMOD Working Group changed the Webex meeting information.

 

When it's time, join the Webex meeting here.

 

 

Meeting number (access code): 171 069 0374

 

Meeting password: semver?

 

 

Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, September 1, 2020 unti= l Tuesday, August 24, 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-04:00) Eastern Ti= me (US & Canada)

9:00 am  |  (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US &= amp; Canada)  |  1 hr

 

 

 

Join meeting

 

 

 

Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only)

+1-650-479-3208,,1710690374## Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

 

 

Join by phone

1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)=

G= lobal call-in numbers

 

 

 

Join from a video system or application<= /p>

Dial 1710690374@ietf.webex.com

You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number.<= o:p>

 

 

 

Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business=

Dial 1710690374.ietf@lync.webex.com

 

 

 

Need help? Go to http:= //help.webex.com

 

 

 

--_000_DM6PR08MB5084E67AC04A11E7E4A01DD69BB59DM6PR08MB5084namp_-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 07:06:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01D43A08E4 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 07:06:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Js3th5foY4r1 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 07:06:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F393A08AA for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 07:06:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.61.193.66] (unknown [173.38.220.59]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 82B781AE02AA; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:06:38 +0100 (CET) From: Jan Lindblad Message-Id: <933E1863-9425-426A-8A10-E2D7BDDCEC03@tail-f.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_33B5E613-9591-4C84-867F-8823BB5FB391" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:06:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 15:06:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_33B5E613-9591-4C84-867F-8823BB5FB391 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Tried out confdc/yanger behavior with filenames containing quirky = characters. In order to make this somewhat realistic, I used a = Darwin/MacOS (utf-8 aware) command line invoked with "double quoted" = filenames, and a Makefile to do the building. Category 1: Characters that just work ascii-alphabetic numerals period comma _ + - ~ @ # % ^ : { } [ ] Anything behind the @ is not considered part of the module name Category 2: Characters that need to be specifically \ escaped in the = shell, but then work ( ) ; & * Category 3: Characters that need to be doubly escaped or similar, but = then work backtick space singlequote doublequote \ | $ ! ? * < > =3D Category 4: Characters that do not work forwardtick slash non-ascii alphabetical (e.g. swedish, german, japanese characters) Best Regards, /jan > On 2 Feb 2021, at 23:46, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) = wrote: >=20 > YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-02 > =20 > Agenda bashing: > - quick recap on 4 topics > - status of topics from previous interim > - updates needed to yang versioning and yang semver drafts > - whitespace > - continue through Github issues > =20 > Deadline on draft sunmissions is 3 weeks from now. Try to get first = cut in 2 weeks max. > =20 > Summary of where we left off yesterday on the Virtual Interim topics: > =20 > T3: > - get feedback from WG on acceptable chars (especially highlight new = ones) > - no semicolon > - 2 sets of files is acceptable, but systems will work with one in = general > - try with a few tools ( Reshad to try pyang and yanglint, Jan try = confd which includes yanger, > - someone try Yuma? (or ask Andy?) > - try google tools ? maybe not worth it > - Reshad to update draft with weekly call group & send updated = snippets to WG > =20 > T2: > - Lou asked to post comments on list. People happy with direction = being proposed. > - try drafting text to indicate when IANA owns a module vs a WG > - Rob to propose text to WG > =20 > T1: > - nobody objected to defining NBC rules for config false > - mix of opinions still? > - deleting a leaf is NBC (to stay in sync with 7950 on this point, and = likely more common expectations) > - decreasing value space on optional leafs is BC (but decreasing it on = mandatory leafs is NBC ?) > - this should also be considered in YANG NEXT > - rules we define need to separate optional vs mandatory elements > - Balasz to propose specific text to weekly call group first > =20 > T4: > - mostly aligned with slides > - not recommended having gaps or removing history, but we won't = disallow it > - Joe to propose text to WG=20 > =20 > First interim topics: > (A) import by revision or derived > - not using revision-or-derived-compatible > - impact of changing import statements: did we post back to the WG? = Said it was BC (but you can mark it NBC if you wanted to) > - Reshad the draft with the results > =20 > (B) Whitespace > =20 > =46rom the first virtual interim: > =20 > JS: we need to decide if the version represents=20 > the file or the underlying YANG statements > JC: no matter what we do, we=E2=80=99ll need YANG-aware=20 > tooling (to go to the next level of analysis to=20 > see if what actually changed in the API) > JL: time is almost up. Summary: no clear consensus > =20 > - got rid of checksums from the scope, but whitespace topic was still = open > - you are *allowed* to bump the (editorial) version if you want to, = but you don't *have* to for insignificant whitespace changes > - checksums in the future may have to be for a URL (i.e. there is not = a checksum associated with version 3.2.2 of module-xxx, there is only a = checksum associated with url:\xxx\yyy\foo.yang) > - comments? are they versioned? They can be more important than insig = whitespace > - remember /n/r vs /n in unix vs dos > - new IETF modules and updating IETF modules will have different = revision labels during development vs the finally published RFC (so it = doesn't matter what we decide here) > - note: tools refer to line numbers in yang files. > - change in API hasn't changed, but the file describing the API = changed > - JS: we should focus on this issue and not let it go quiet until we = come to a decision > =20 > =20 > NETMOD Working Group changed the Webex meeting information. >=20 > =20 > When it's time, join the Webex meeting here. >=20 > =20 > Meeting number (access code): 171 069 0374 > Meeting password: semver? > =20 > Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, September 1, 2020 until = Tuesday, August 24, 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-04:00) Eastern = Time (US & Canada) > 9:00 am | (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) | 1 hr > =20 > =20 > Join meeting = > =20 > Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only) > +1-650-479-3208,,1710690374## = Call-in toll number = (US/Canada) > =20 > Join by phone > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > Global call-in numbers = > =20 > Join from a video system or application > Dial 1710690374@ietf.webex.com = > You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number. > =20 > Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business > Dial 1710690374.ietf@lync.webex.com = > =20 > =20 > Need help? Go to http://help.webex.com > =20 > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = --Apple-Mail=_33B5E613-9591-4C84-867F-8823BB5FB391 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Tried out confdc/yanger behavior with filenames containing = quirky characters. In order to make this somewhat realistic, I used a = Darwin/MacOS (utf-8 aware) command line invoked with "double quoted" = filenames, and a Makefile to do the building.

Category 1: Characters that just = work
    ascii-alphabetic numerals period = comma _ + - ~ @ # % ^ : { } [ ]
    = Anything behind the @ is not considered part of the module = name

Category = 2: Characters that need to be specifically \ escaped in the shell, but = then work
    ( ) ; & *

Category 3: Characters = that need to be doubly escaped or similar, but then work
    backtick space singlequote doublequote \ | $ ! = ? * < > =3D

Category 4: Characters that do not work
    forwardtick slash
  =   non-ascii alphabetical (e.g. swedish, german, japanese = characters)

Best= Regards,
/jan






On 2 Feb 2021, at 23:46, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) = <jason.sterne@nokia.com> wrote:

YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-02
 
Agenda = bashing:
-= quick recap on 4 topics
- status of topics from previous interim
- updates = needed to yang versioning and yang semver drafts
- = whitespace
-= continue through Github issues
 
Deadline on draft sunmissions is 3 = weeks from now.  Try to get first cut in 2 weeks max.
 
Summary = of where we left off yesterday on the Virtual Interim topics:
 
T3:
- get = feedback from WG on acceptable chars (especially highlight new ones)
- no = semicolon
-= 2 sets of files is acceptable, but systems will work with one in = general
-= try with a few tools ( Reshad to try pyang and yanglint, Jan try confd = which includes yanger,
- someone try Yuma?  (or ask Andy?)
- try = google tools ?  maybe not worth it
- Reshad to update draft with weekly = call group & send updated snippets to WG
 
T2:
- Lou = asked to post comments on list. People happy with direction being = proposed.
-= try drafting text to indicate when IANA owns a module vs a WG
- Rob to = propose text to WG
 
T1:
-= nobody objected to defining NBC rules for config false
- mix of = opinions still?
-= deleting a leaf is NBC (to stay in sync with 7950 on this point, and = likely more common expectations)
- decreasing value space on optional = leafs is BC (but decreasing it on mandatory leafs is NBC ?)
- this = should also be considered in YANG NEXT
- rules we define need to separate = optional vs mandatory elements
- Balasz to propose specific text to = weekly call group first
 
T4:
-= mostly aligned with slides
- not recommended having gaps or = removing history, but we won't disallow it
- Joe to propose text to WG 
 
First = interim topics:
(A) import by revision or derived
- not = using revision-or-derived-compatible
- impact of changing import statements: = did we post back to the WG?  Said it was BC (but you can mark it = NBC if you wanted to)
- Reshad the draft with the results
 
(B) = Whitespace
 
=46rom the first virtual interim:
 
   JS: we need to decide if the version = represents 
   the file or the underlying YANG = statements
   JC: no matter what we do, we=E2=80=99ll need = YANG-aware 
   tooling (to go to the next level of = analysis to 
   see if what actually changed in the = API)
   JL: time is almost up. Summary: no clear = consensus
 
- got rid of checksums from the scope, but whitespace topic = was still open
-= you are *allowed* to bump the (editorial) version if you want to, but = you don't *have* to for insignificant whitespace changes
- = checksums in the future may have to be for a URL (i.e. there is not a = checksum associated with version 3.2.2 of module-xxx, there is only a = checksum associated with url:\xxx\yyy\foo.yang)
- = comments? are they versioned? They can be more important than insig = whitespace
-= remember /n/r vs /n in unix vs dos
- new IETF modules and updating IETF = modules will have different revision labels during development vs the = finally published RFC (so it doesn't matter what we decide here)
- note: = tools refer to line numbers in yang files.
- change in API hasn't changed, but the = file describing the API changed
- JS: we should focus on this issue and = not let it go quiet until we come to a decision
 
 

NETMOD Working Group changed the Webex meeting = information.

 

When it's time, join the Webex meeting here.

 

Meeting number (access = code): 171 069 0374

Meeting password: semver?

 

Occurs every = Tuesday effective Tuesday, September 1, 2020 until Tuesday, August 24, = 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & = Canada)

9:00 = am  |  (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & = Canada)  |  1 hr

 

 
=
Join = meeting

 

Tap = to join from a mobile device (attendees only)

+1-650-479-3208,,1710690374## Call-in toll number = (US/Canada)

 

Join = by phone

1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Global call-in numbers

 

Join = from a video system or application

Dial 1710690374@ietf.webex.com

You can also dial = 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number.

 

Join using Microsoft Lync or = Microsoft Skype for Business

Dial 1710690374.ietf@lync.webex.com

 

 
Need help? Go to http://help.webex.com
 
 
 
_______________________________________= ________
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= --Apple-Mail=_33B5E613-9591-4C84-867F-8823BB5FB391-- From nobody Thu Feb 4 09:34:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFD13A1626; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 09:34:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: lflynn@amsl.com, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, rwilton@cisco.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.25.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <161246008975.22314.8325755987069237695@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 09:34:49 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] netmod - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 110 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 17:34:50 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Liz Flynn, on behalf of the netmod working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Modeling Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Liz Flynn Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: netconf teas detnet Key Participant Conflict: raw ipsecme People who must be present: Lou Berger Joel Jaeggli Kent Watsen Robert Wilton Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Feb 9 04:33:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ECA13A1A3A for ; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 05e0a816-3375-4cb1-db03-08d8ccf6e8eb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Feb 2021 12:33:31.4149 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 2NbJ4WBXp1heLXIEN3ej3XyjuCPyguuvjETyxshxURY/gLf9StVW2mo0tWGVhmODcjpVxWVzveY5N5KIKINBrw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB3975 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 12:33:35 -0000 MD5 has long been deprecated as in RFC6151, RFC8573(NTP).=0A= =0A= The NTP YANG I-D, ntp-yang-data-model, imports ianach without any constrain= t and so goes against RFC8573.=0A= =0A= I think we should update ianach to deprecate MD5 by adding a status clause.= This is a permitted update per YANG and the module is Expert Review so I = believe that with the consensus of the NETMOD WG, IANA could be asked to ad= d 'status deprecated' to MD5.=0A= =0A= Thoughts?=0A= =0A= Tom Petch = From nobody Tue Feb 9 05:07:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726223A1AAC for ; 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Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:07:06 +0000 Received: by smtp402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 5c49c8a2b1eff121b303f3eb1adc7d79; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 13:07:04 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.44.20121301 Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 08:07:00 -0500 From: Reshad Rahman To: Jan Lindblad , "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-02 References: <933E1863-9425-426A-8A10-E2D7BDDCEC03@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <933E1863-9425-426A-8A10-E2D7BDDCEC03@tail-f.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3695702824_1627535106" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.17648 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 13:07:11 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3695702824_1627535106 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Tried pyang and yanglint. pyang warns about filename: should consist of "[_A-Za-z][._\-A-Za-z0-9]*" (= see warning below).=C2=A0=20 yanglint warns about mismatch between filename and module name also. Basically, both accept the characters we want to allow, they treat @ as del= imiter for the module-name and don=E2=80=99t recognize # as such (as expected). =20 Regards, Reshad=20 $ pyang test#1.0.0.yang =20 test#1.0.0.yang:1: warning: filename "test#1.0.0.yang" suggests invalid mod= ule name "test#1.0.0", should match "[_A-Za-z][._\-A-Za-z0-9]*" $ pyang test#{1\,0\,\0}.yang=20 test#{1,0,0}.yang:1: warning: filename "test#{1,0,0}.yang" suggests invalid= module name "test#{1,0,0}", should match "[_A-Za-z][._\-A-Za-z0-9]*" $ pyang test#{1.0.0}.yang =20 test#{1.0.0}.yang:1: warning: filename "test#{1.0.0}.yang" suggests invalid= module name "test#{1.0.0}", should match "[_A-Za-z][._\-A-Za-z0-9]*" $ pyang test#1.0.0+.yang test#1.0.0+.yang:1: warning: filename "test#1.0.0+.yang" suggests invalid m= odule name "test#1.0.0+", should match "[_A-Za-z][._\-A-Za-z0-9]*" =20 $ yanglint test#1.0.0.yang =20 libyang warn: File name "test#1.0.0.yang" does not match module name "test"= . $ yanglint test#{1\,0\,0}.yang =20 libyang warn: File name "test#{1,0,0}.yang" does not match module name "tes= t". $ yanglint test#{1.0.0}.yang =20 libyang warn: File name "test#{1.0.0}.yang" does not match module name "tes= t". $ yanglint test#1.0.0+.yang =20 libyang warn: File name "test#1.0.0+.yang" does not match module name "test= ". =20 Regards, Reshad. =20 From: netmod on behalf of Jan Lindblad Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 10:06 AM To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-02 =20 Tried out confdc/yanger behavior with filenames containing quirky character= s. In order to make this somewhat realistic, I used a Darwin/MacOS (utf-8 aw= are) command line invoked with "double quoted" filenames, and a Makefile to = do the building. =20 Category 1: Characters that just work ascii-alphabetic numerals period comma _ + - ~ @ # % ^ : { } [ ] Anything behind the @ is not considered part of the module name =20 Category 2: Characters that need to be specifically \ escaped in the shell,= but then work ( ) ; & * =20 Category 3: Characters that need to be doubly escaped or similar, but then = work backtick space singlequote doublequote \ | $ ! ? * < > =3D =20 Category 4: Characters that do not work forwardtick slash non-ascii alphabetical (e.g. swedish, german, japanese characters) =20 Best Regards, /jan =20 =20 =20 =20 On 2 Feb 2021, at 23:46, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: =20 YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-02 =20 Agenda bashing: - quick recap on 4 topics - status of topics from previous interim - updates needed to yang versioning and yang semver drafts - whitespace - continue through Github issues =20 Deadline on draft sunmissions is 3 weeks from now. Try to get first cut in= 2 weeks max. =20 Summary of where we left off yesterday on the Virtual Interim topics: =20 T3: - get feedback from WG on acceptable chars (especially highlight new ones) - no semicolon - 2 sets of files is acceptable, but systems will work with one in general - try with a few tools ( Reshad to try pyang and yanglint, Jan try confd wh= ich includes yanger, - someone try Yuma? (or ask Andy?) - try google tools ? maybe not worth it - Reshad to update draft with weekly call group & send updated snippets to = WG =20 T2: - Lou asked to post comments on list. People happy with direction being pro= posed. - try drafting text to indicate when IANA owns a module vs a WG - Rob to propose text to WG =20 T1: - nobody objected to defining NBC rules for config false - mix of opinions still? - deleting a leaf is NBC (to stay in sync with 7950 on this point, and like= ly more common expectations) - decreasing value space on optional leafs is BC (but decreasing it on mand= atory leafs is NBC ?) - this should also be considered in YANG NEXT - rules we define need to separate optional vs mandatory elements - Balasz to propose specific text to weekly call group first =20 T4: - mostly aligned with slides - not recommended having gaps or removing history, but we won't disallow it - Joe to propose text to WG=20 =20 First interim topics: (A) import by revision or derived - not using revision-or-derived-compatible - impact of changing import statements: did we post back to the WG? Said i= t was BC (but you can mark it NBC if you wanted to) - Reshad the draft with the results =20 (B) Whitespace =20 >From the first virtual interim: =20 JS: we need to decide if the version represents=20 the file or the underlying YANG statements JC: no matter what we do, we=E2=80=99ll need YANG-aware=20 tooling (to go to the next level of analysis to=20 see if what actually changed in the API) JL: time is almost up. Summary: no clear consensus =20 - got rid of checksums from the scope, but whitespace topic was still open - you are *allowed* to bump the (editorial) version if you want to, but you= don't *have* to for insignificant whitespace changes - checksums in the future may have to be for a URL (i.e. there is not a che= cksum associated with version 3.2.2 of module-xxx, there is only a checksum = associated with url:\xxx\yyy\foo.yang) - comments? are they versioned? They can be more important than insig white= space - remember /n/r vs /n in unix vs dos - new IETF modules and updating IETF modules will have different revision l= abels during development vs the finally published RFC (so it doesn't matter = what we decide here) - note: tools refer to line numbers in yang files. - change in API hasn't changed, but the file describing the API changed - JS: we should focus on this issue and not let it go quiet until we come t= o a decision =20 =20 NETMOD Working Group changed the Webex meeting information. =20 When it's time, join the Webex meeting here. =20 Meeting number (access code): 171 069 0374 Meeting password: semver? =20 =20 Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, September 1, 2020 until Tuesday, Au= gust 24, 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & Canad= a) 9:00 am | (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) | 1 hr =20 =20 Join meeting =20 =20 Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only) +1-650-479-3208,,1710690374## Call-in toll number (US/Canada) =20 =20 Join by phone 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Global call-in numbers =20 =20 Join from a video system or application Dial 1710690374@ietf.webex.com You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number. =20 =20 Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business Dial 1710690374.ietf@lync.webex.com =20 =20 =20 Need help? Go to http://help.webex.com =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod =20 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@= ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=20 --B_3695702824_1627535106 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Tried pyang and yanglint.=

pyang warns about filename: should cons= ist of "[_A-Za-z][._\-A-Za-z0-9]*" (see warning below).=C2=A0 <= o:p>

yanglint warns= about mismatch between filename and module name also.

Basically, both accept the characters we want to allow, they tre= at @ as delimiter for the module-name and don=E2=80=99t recognize # as such (as ex= pected).

 

Regards,

Reshad=

$ pyang test= #1.0.0.yang  
test#1.= 0.0.yang:1: warning: filename "test#1.0.0.yang" suggests invalid m= odule name "test#1.0.0", should match "[_A-Za-z][._\-A-Za-z0-= 9]*"

$ py= ang test#{1\,0\,\0}.yang
= test#{1,0,0}.yang:1: warning: filename "test#{1,0,0}.yang" suggest= s invalid module name "test#{1,0,0}", should match "[_A-Za-z]= [._\-A-Za-z0-9]*"

$ pyang test#{1.0.0}.yang    
test#{1.0.0}.yang:1: warning: filename "tes= t#{1.0.0}.yang" suggests invalid module name "test#{1.0.0}", = should match "[_A-Za-z][._\-A-Za-z0-9]*"

$ pyang test#1.0.0+.yang
test#1.0.0+.yang:1: warning: filename &q= uot;test#1.0.0+.yang" suggests invalid module name "test#1.0.0+&qu= ot;, should match "[_A-Za-z][._\-A-Za-z0-9]*"

 

$ yanglint test#1.0.0.yang   &n= bsp;    <= br>libyang warn: File name "test#1.0.0.yang" does not match module= name "test".

$ yanglint test#{1\,0\,0}.yang  
libyang warn: File name "test#{1,0,0}.yang" = does not match module name "test".

$ yanglint test#{1.0.0}.yang   &nbs= p;   
libya= ng warn: File name "test#{1.0.0}.yang" does not match module name = "test".

$ yanglint test#1.0.0+.yang  
libyang warn: File name "test#1.0.0+.yang" does not m= atch module name "test".

<= o:p> 

Regards,

Reshad.

 

From: <= /b>netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf= .org> on behalf of Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com>
Date: W= ednesday, February 3, 2021 at 10:06 AM
To: "Sterne, Jason (No= kia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
Cc: "ne= tmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] = YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-02

=

 

T= ried out confdc/yanger behavior with filenames containing quirky characters.= In order to make this somewhat realistic, I used a Darwin/MacOS (utf-8 awar= e) command line invoked with "double quoted" filenames, and a Make= file to do the building.

&n= bsp;

Category 1: Characters that just= work

    ascii-alphab= etic numerals period comma _ + - ~ @ # % ^ : { } [ ]

    Anything behind the @ is not considered p= art of the module name

&nbs= p;

Category 2: Characters that need t= o be specifically \ escaped in the shell, but then work

=

    ( ) ; & *

 

Categ= ory 3: Characters that need to be doubly escaped or similar, but then work

    backtick space sing= lequote doublequote \ | $ ! ? * < > =3D

 

Category 4: C= haracters that do not work

 = ;   forwardtick slash

 = ;   non-ascii alphabetical (e.g. swedish, german, japanese characters)<= o:p>

 

=

Best Regards,

/jan

 

 

 

 



On 2 Feb 2021, at 23:46, Sterne= , Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jaso= n.sterne@nokia.com> wrote:

 

YANG Versioning Weekly Call M= inutes - 2021-02-02

 <= /o:p>

Agenda bashing:

<= div>

- quick recap on 4 topics

- status of topics from previous interim

- updates needed to yang versioning and yang semve= r drafts

- whitespace=

- continue through Github issues

 

Deadline on draft sunmissions is 3 weeks from now.  Try to ge= t first cut in 2 weeks max.

&nbs= p;

Summary of where we left off = yesterday on the Virtual Interim topics:

 

T3:

- get feedback from WG on acceptable chars (= especially highlight new ones)

-= no semicolon

- 2 sets of files = is acceptable, but systems will work with one in general

- try with a few tools ( Reshad to try pyang and ya= nglint, Jan try confd which includes yanger,

- someone try Yuma?  (or ask Andy?)

- try google tools ?  maybe not worth it

- Reshad to update draft with weekly cal= l group & send updated snippets to WG

 

T2:<= /p>

- Lou asked to post comments on list. Peopl= e happy with direction being proposed.

- try drafting text to indicate when IANA owns a module vs a WG<= /o:p>

- Rob to propose text to WG

 

T1:

- nobody objected = to defining NBC rules for config false

- mix of opinions still?

= - deleting a leaf is NBC (to stay in sync with 7950 on this point, and likel= y more common expectations)

- de= creasing value space on optional leafs is BC (but decreasing it on mandatory= leafs is NBC ?)

- this should a= lso be considered in YANG NEXT

-= rules we define need to separate optional vs mandatory elements<= /p>

- Balasz to propose specific text to weekly= call group first

 

T4:

- mostly aligned with slides

- not recommended having gaps or removing history, but we won't disall= ow it

- Joe to propose text to W= G 

 

First in= terim topics:

(A) import by revi= sion or derived

- not using revi= sion-or-derived-compatible

- imp= act of changing import statements: did we post back to the WG?  Said it= was BC (but you can mark it NBC if you wanted to)

=

- Reshad the draft with the results

<= div>

 

(B= ) Whitespace

 

From the first virtual interim:

 

   JS: we need to decide if the version represents 

   the file or the underlying YANG statements

   JC: no matter what we do, w= e=E2=80=99ll need YANG-aware 

   tooling (to go to th= e next level of analysis to 

   see if what act= ually changed in the API)

 =   JL: time is almost up. Summary: no clear consensus

 

- got rid of checksums from the scope, but whitespace topic was still open<= o:p>

- you are *allowed* to bump the = (editorial) version if you want to, but you don't *have* to for insignifican= t whitespace changes

- checksums= in the future may have to be for a URL (i.e. there is not a checksum associ= ated with version 3.2.2 of module-xxx, there is only a checksum associated w= ith url:\xxx\yyy\foo.yang)

- com= ments? are they versioned? They can be more important than insig whitespace<= o:p>

- remember /n/r vs /n in unix vs= dos

- new IETF modules and upda= ting IETF modules will have different revision labels during development vs = the finally published RFC (so it doesn't matter what we decide here)

- note: tools refer to line numbers in = yang files.

- change in API hasn= 't changed, but the file describing the API changed

- JS: we should focus on this issue and not let it go qu= iet until we come to a decision

=  

 

NETMOD Working Group changed the Webex meeting in= formation.

 

When it's time, join the Webex meeting h= ere.

 

=

Meeting n= umber (access code): 171 069 0374

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Occurs every Tuesday e= ffective Tuesday, September 1, 2020 until Tuesday, August 24, 2021 from 9:00= AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)

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Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:07:56 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-09 Thread-Index: Adb+9TCZNhQMfjjLSEKCT0GmaE5QsA== Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:07:56 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [2607:fea8:e321:1400:30f4:aa62:b5f7:f69d] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f6800246-d40f-47a7-f6f2-08d8cd0c7b77 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR08MB3324: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:3044; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_DM6PR08MB5084A0EB2DB7529EA2F78A919B8E9DM6PR08MB5084namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR08MB5084.namprd08.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f6800246-d40f-47a7-f6f2-08d8cd0c7b77 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Feb 2021 15:07:56.7446 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 7Oa4wFO27pUdahdnzC6fJ27ESDFaVjwunmLpZ3PQD0sGy5tT3napZxShEuWq4tv/sp9wwJh6E+QqLzUGBGWv7g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR08MB3324 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-09 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 15:08:02 -0000 --_000_DM6PR08MB5084A0EB2DB7529EA2F78A919B8E9DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-09 Agenda bashing: - drive to updated YANG Versioning and Semver drafts (deadline is ~2 weeks) - Balazs & T1 (state & NBC) - whitespace - 3GPP / ORAN update Updates to YANG Versioning: - T3: filenames & chars: [Reshad] update draft & send to Weekly Call Group - T2: [Rob] to do a pull request with draft text & to NETMOD list - Import by revision: impact of changing import statements: did we post bac= k to the WG? Said it was BC (but you can mark it NBC if you wanted to) - NBC/BC for config false - Prio 2: [Reshad] see if any other github issues are closed and could be f= olded in [Balazs] NBC/BC for Config false: - reduce value space for optional or mandatory nodes is BC. - increasing value space (within the type) for optional or mandatory nodes = is BC. - type change is NBC - optional->mandatory is BC. mandatory->optional is NBC. - systems can be more tolerant to state changes, no validation on outgoing = state - trying to accomodate what most clients can handle (otherwise too many cha= nges will be flagged NBC, too much noise) - be strict with NBC in config, but less strict in state - draft document text, pass snippets to the WG [Jason] Put this under definition of NBC marker: - changes can be marked NBC any time if the author thinks there is a compat= . issue that impacts most clients [Jan] Whitespace: - publisher (in the act of publishing) would always give a new version # - what if a user (non-owner) of a module adds annotations (e.g. yang extens= ions, comments), etc (e.g. aids for GUI generation). What is the version/l= abel of that derived result? It is a different version or even a different= module (different entity than the original owner). - can you republish module with same date making some whitespace changes. N= o. You must give a new version. - publish with linux then republish with dos: different versions. - how to define/describe publish ? - tools may say that 2 versions have no changes (if the tool ignores whites= pace and line endings). But that's acceptable. Jason --_000_DM6PR08MB5084A0EB2DB7529EA2F78A919B8E9DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-09

 

Agenda bashing:

- drive to updated YANG Versioning and Semver drafts= (deadline is ~2 weeks)

- Balazs & T1 (state & NBC)

- whitespace

- 3GPP / ORAN update

 

Updates to YANG Versioning:

- T3: filenames & chars: [Reshad] update draft &= amp; send to Weekly Call Group

- T2: [Rob] to do a pull request with draft text &am= p; to NETMOD list

- Import by revision: impact of changing import stat= ements: did we post back to the WG?  Said it was BC (but you can mark = it NBC if you wanted to)

- NBC/BC for config false

- Prio 2: [Reshad] see if any other github issues ar= e closed and could be folded in

 

[Balazs] NBC/BC for Config false:

- reduce value space for optional or mandatory nodes= is BC.

- increasing value space (within the type) for optio= nal or mandatory nodes is BC.

- type change is NBC

- optional->mandatory is BC.  mandatory->= optional is NBC.

- systems can be more tolerant to state changes, no = validation on outgoing state

- trying to accomodate what most clients can handle = (otherwise too many changes will be flagged NBC, too much noise)=

- be strict with NBC in config, but less strict in s= tate

- draft document text, pass snippets to the WG<= /o:p>

 

[Jason] Put this under definition of NBC marker:

- changes can be marked NBC any time if the author t= hinks there is a compat. issue that impacts most clients

 

[Jan] Whitespace:

- publisher (in the act of publishing) would always = give a new version #

- what if a user (non-owner) of a module adds annota= tions (e.g. yang extensions, comments), etc (e.g. aids for GUI generation).=   What is the version/label of that derived result?  It is a diff= erent version or even a different module (different entity than the original owner).

- can you republish module with same date making som= e whitespace changes. No. You must give a new version.

- publish with linux then republish with dos: differ= ent versions.

- how to define/describe publish ?

- tools may say that 2 versions have no changes (if = the tool ignores whitespace and line endings).  But that's acceptable.=

 

Jason

--_000_DM6PR08MB5084A0EB2DB7529EA2F78A919B8E9DM6PR08MB5084namp_-- From nobody Tue Feb 9 09:06:43 2021 Return-Path: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2AEE3A1010 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:06:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EDnOWliUyhaQ for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:06:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C5A83A100F for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:06:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1612890399; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=op9fTgvh/Xl0WqjAbl3gl+nGVwmApSQFnDid4B1ATss=; b=KonoKi4HUY2J+eoWPmBA57wX7UnQHzVoX7Us3zc69wXcup8YbzQ90EnVZoLktUfl bqHiRHv4R3QJYyxHtRgvuoMJYwcSx9b6IFjDcwmZYKvQHeTi5A0bL2ErgO/LTOsoV3o niHKuxgT/sK7ptHac0aLk7Dke2oWpfvZgybk2B+I= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:06:38 +0000 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: To: tom petch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.02.09-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 17:06:42 -0000 Hi Tom, > MD5 has long been deprecated as in RFC6151, RFC8573(NTP). >=20 > The NTP YANG I-D, ntp-yang-data-model, imports ianach without any = constraint and so goes against RFC8573. >=20 > I think we should update ianach to deprecate MD5 by adding a status = clause. This is a permitted update per YANG and the module is Expert = Review so I believe that with the consensus of the NETMOD WG, IANA could = be asked to add 'status deprecated' to MD5. >=20 > Thoughts? I agree, but it takes an I-D to do the update, yes? K. 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Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:10:50 +0000 From: tom petch To: Kent Watsen CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 Thread-Index: AQHW/t6Mi+fY5qf6xk+Z/p2uciqWmqpQDh4AgAAAyRg= Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:10:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.146.121.140] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 07849396-696c-4a1a-e6d2-08d8cd1da64f x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AS8PR07MB7272: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 07849396-696c-4a1a-e6d2-08d8cd1da64f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Feb 2021 17:10:50.0098 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: LF7dalmFIR2010F6N+otHiByuzVR2+oIz1rk6QhkK5D0YQyXE6GWbmx6y/TlLdHhfIv8qUO+/SmOAo6fIWOwvw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AS8PR07MB7272 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 17:10:58 -0000 From: Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 09 February 2021 17:06=0A= =0A= Hi Tom,=0A= =0A= > MD5 has long been deprecated as in RFC6151, RFC8573(NTP).=0A= >=0A= > The NTP YANG I-D, ntp-yang-data-model, imports ianach without any constra= int and so goes against RFC8573.=0A= >=0A= > I think we should update ianach to deprecate MD5 by adding a status claus= e. This is a permitted update per YANG and the module is Expert Review so = I believe that with the consensus of the NETMOD WG, IANA could be asked to = add 'status deprecated' to MD5.=0A= >=0A= > Thoughts?=0A= =0A= I agree, but it takes an I-D to do the update, yes?=0A= =0A= =0A= I don't see why; the registry is expert review and we are doing a change th= at comes under permitted changes for a YANG module, ie a status change.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= K.=0A= =0A= =0A= From nobody Tue Feb 9 09:12:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2CC3A101C for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:12:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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This is a permitted update per YANG and the module is Expert Review so I believe that with the consensus of the NETMOD WG, IANA could be asked to add 'status deprecated' to MD5. > > > > Thoughts? > > I agree, but it takes an I-D to do the update, yes? I believe the process is that someone submits an update request to IANA and IANA will then contact the Expert for Review and then the Expert does whatever she does. "The designated expert is not required to personally bear the burden of evaluating and deciding all requests, but acts as a shepherd for the request, enlisting the help of others as appropriate." 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Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:28:56 +0000 From: tom petch To: Kent Watsen , Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 Thread-Index: AQHW/t6Mi+fY5qf6xk+Z/p2uciqWmqpQDh4AgAABm4CAAAQArw== Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:28:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com>, <20210209171223.u75i6x5ksounleyr@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20210209171223.u75i6x5ksounleyr@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.146.121.140] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4b247b90-42eb-426d-b2ba-08d8cd202df7 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR07MB3973: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4b247b90-42eb-426d-b2ba-08d8cd202df7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Feb 2021 17:28:56.5784 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: pERG1NwoUI++Jqljumdz+5TfKPoBwNyihr7XBJYXAJlSovbpIA01RpNun+iEUElZ0kr+FWliGDdsY0VJdyvHHQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB3973 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 17:29:02 -0000 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =0A= Sent: 09 February 2021 17:12=0A= =0A= On Tue, Feb 09, 2021 at 05:06:38PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:=0A= > Hi Tom,=0A= >=0A= > > MD5 has long been deprecated as in RFC6151, RFC8573(NTP).=0A= > >=0A= > > The NTP YANG I-D, ntp-yang-data-model, imports ianach without any const= raint and so goes against RFC8573.=0A= > >=0A= > > I think we should update ianach to deprecate MD5 by adding a status cla= use. This is a permitted update per YANG and the module is Expert Review s= o I believe that with the consensus of the NETMOD WG, IANA could be asked t= o add 'status deprecated' to MD5.=0A= > >=0A= > > Thoughts?=0A= >=0A= > I agree, but it takes an I-D to do the update, yes?=0A= =0A= I believe the process is that someone submits an update request to=0A= IANA and IANA will then contact the Expert for Review and then the=0A= Expert does whatever she does. "The designated expert is not required=0A= to personally bear the burden of evaluating and deciding all requests,=0A= but acts as a shepherd for the request, enlisting the help of others=0A= as appropriate." (RFC 5226, BCP 26)=0A= =0A= =0A= I agree but think the Expert Reviewer, as appointed by IANA, would be helpe= d along their way if they had the consensus of the NETMOD WG in favour of t= his.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= /js=0A= =0A= --=0A= Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= From nobody Tue Feb 9 09:47:34 2021 Return-Path: <0100017787e7c265-3993cc0c-a9c5-4072-b4bc-abba6fb7f7db-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438A43A1086 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:47:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lSGOQ4u7QTXJ for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:47:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 180173A107F for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:47:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1612892848; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=1prtsMsHz+6s8Vv8ZUWErBKaJ820XmyTiSg18VqL410=; b=hoPsBS2PyLfVCnIsrQxeyrKHSKdnKS9lAs2cKneRu0fULkM3LogqfwtnVxjmrHLl l/tVNWxAGt3aTnveVrt12qvJwk8XqvfCs6oFlr2UiUrlcr7q+xDqrqybBDcWCuZJV8d 5uI1AaOUWt2uK943u/nr1eAMyD63c+yC87GhaHy4= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017787e7c265-3993cc0c-a9c5-4072-b4bc-abba6fb7f7db-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_14614FED-F18C-45B2-A419-2BD3CB5C4001" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:47:28 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: tom petch References: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.02.09-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 17:47:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_14614FED-F18C-45B2-A419-2BD3CB5C4001 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > I agree, but it takes an I-D to do the update, yes? >=20 > > I don't see why; the registry is expert review and we are doing a = change that comes under permitted changes for a YANG module, ie a status = change. My understanding is that a publication of a draft altering an IANA = registry will trigger an =E2=80=9Cexpert review=E2=80=9D, if that = registry was created with the update-policy set that way. The draft = itself doesn=E2=80=99t request an expert review, the expert review = happens in the background. I=E2=80=99m not familiar with this being done = without an I-D, in order to show WG consensus.=20 K. --Apple-Mail=_14614FED-F18C-45B2-A419-2BD3CB5C4001 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I agree, but it takes an I-D to = do the update, yes?

<tp>
I don't see why; the registry is expert review and we are = doing a change that comes under permitted changes for a YANG module, ie = a status change.

My understanding is that a publication of a draft = altering an IANA registry will trigger an =E2=80=9Cexpert review=E2=80=9D,= if that registry was created with the update-policy set that way. The = draft itself doesn=E2=80=99t request an expert review, the expert review = happens in the background. I=E2=80=99m not familiar with this being done = without an I-D, in order to show WG consensus. 

K.

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the registry is expert review and we are doing a change that comes under permitted changes for a YANG module, ie a status change. > > My understanding is that a publication of a draft altering an IANA registry will trigger an “expert reviewâ€, if that registry was created with the update-policy set that way. The draft itself doesn’t request an expert review, the expert review happens in the background. I’m not familiar with this being done without an I-D, in order to show WG consensus. > My understanding is that IANA reviews all documents during the publication process and while performing this review they will notice that something is requested to be added/changed in a registry that requires expert review and then they will go and run the procedure. My understanding is this is _one_ way to make a request to IANA but not the only way to make a request to IANA. The more interesting bit is what IANA has to say about this registry: iana-crypt-hash YANG Module RFC 7317 Expert Review (Expert: Unassigned) Perhaps we should focus more on finding a volunteer willing to take the role of the Designated Expert... /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Feb 10 03:24:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA8783A0D3A for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 03:24:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c99967f3-32cf-4c94-3fcf-08d8cdb66eb4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Feb 2021 11:24:29.6798 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 1DDJ9V9K2BckosVJma+FIkXVN80i/L8/rBucd8KnQn7v0wFX/spGBjZWnjLWRkTVN6+OtgGyh2L1sSqyq1LeMw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AS8PR07MB7063 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:24:35 -0000 From: netmod on behalf of Juergen Schoenwaelder <= j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>=0A= Sent: 09 February 2021 19:10=0A= =0A= On Tue, Feb 09, 2021 at 05:47:28PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:=0A= >=0A= > > I agree, but it takes an I-D to do the update, yes?=0A= > >=0A= > > =0A= > > I don't see why; the registry is expert review and we are doing a chang= e that comes under permitted changes for a YANG module, ie a status change.= =0A= >=0A= > My understanding is that a publication of a draft altering an IANA regist= ry will trigger an =93expert review=94, if that registry was created with t= he update-policy set that way. The draft itself doesn=92t request an expert= review, the expert review happens in the background. I=92m not familiar wi= th this being done without an I-D, in order to show WG consensus.=0A= >=0A= =0A= My understanding is that IANA reviews all documents during the=0A= publication process and while performing this review they will notice=0A= that something is requested to be added/changed in a registry that=0A= requires expert review and then they will go and run the procedure.=0A= =0A= My understanding is this is _one_ way to make a request to IANA but=0A= not the only way to make a request to IANA.=0A= =0A= The more interesting bit is what IANA has to say about this registry:=0A= =0A= iana-crypt-hash YANG Module RFC 7317=0A= Expert Review (Expert: Unassigned)=0A= =0A= Perhaps we should focus more on finding a volunteer willing to take=0A= the role of the Designated Expert...=0A= =0A= =0A= That is several steps ahead of us and, as and when it arises, that is the j= ob of the IESG, not us. =0A= =0A= The first task, for us or for the NTP WG (who want it to happen) or ... is = to reach a consensus on whether or not the module is fit for purpose, or wh= ether it needs updating.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= /js=0A= =0A= --=0A= Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netmod mailing list=0A= netmod@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= From nobody Wed Feb 10 03:31:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B423A0D50 for ; 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Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:31:48 +0000 From: tom petch To: Kent Watsen CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 Thread-Index: AQHW/t6Mi+fY5qf6xk+Z/p2uciqWmqpQDh4AgAAAyRiAAAqfAIABKAsB Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:31:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> , <0100017787e7c265-3993cc0c-a9c5-4072-b4bc-abba6fb7f7db-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100017787e7c265-3993cc0c-a9c5-4072-b4bc-abba6fb7f7db-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.146.121.140] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c748d82c-2f2a-4113-d04c-08d8cdb77450 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AS8PR07MB7063: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c748d82c-2f2a-4113-d04c-08d8cdb77450 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Feb 2021 11:31:48.6540 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: v8LDZ1jZCAwemstYipNtWnPKlCXhSeUBo0bBRqrD7sK+yffl2lU11gK475IElb9NXpK8VCjCvH+A+6E2Hom+FA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AS8PR07MB7063 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:31:53 -0000 From: Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 09 February 2021 17:47=0A= =0A= I agree, but it takes an I-D to do the update, yes?=0A= =0A= =0A= I don't see why; the registry is expert review and we are doing a change th= at comes under permitted changes for a YANG module, ie a status change.=0A= =0A= My understanding is that a publication of a draft altering an IANA registry= will trigger an =93expert review=94, if that registry was created with the= update-policy set that way. The draft itself doesn=92t request an expert r= eview, the expert review happens in the background. I=92m not familiar with= this being done without an I-D, in order to show WG consensus.=0A= =0A= =0A= It happens in the TLS WG, for example, where the registries of security opt= ions are Expert Review and when an e-mail comes to IANA, which may be from = outside the IETF, the reviewers raise it on the TLS list and if they are sa= tisfied with the support, tell IANA to go ahead.=0A= =0A= No I-D needed, no decision for the WG Chair to make. The whole point of Ex= pert Review is to have a process which is not as heavy-weight as a (Standar= ds Track) RFC.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= K.=0A= =0A= From nobody Wed Feb 10 07:28:08 2021 Return-Path: <010001778c8e7bc9-b90187bb-2f98-48c0-bffc-0bdc93109cce-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EA8B3A0DAE for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 07:28:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zV_W6_ZVB99v for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 07:28:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FB5E3A0DAD for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 07:28:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1612970884; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=Zlb8OrvudV2apU+zmj8bGmUuxV7gfhrY78TKQok1c0w=; b=h5GeOsht+lQD9vvKey6WS+qivyq3WsL/mtjSH7+k+DGsV8n2SJxfcFTSXraz9a3K Bf7nMmpHongCrmv77cfdwUU9sRat7WmMBFTWXtyTWcRUj0CnPWf2DUQQn9zoz2x6H4L 4RmRjrJaV/zLrCR/BmURphsYFuxpikBaYRc9iIBs= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 15:28:04 +0000 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <010001778c8e7bc9-b90187bb-2f98-48c0-bffc-0bdc93109cce-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017787e7c265-3993cc0c-a9c5-4072-b4bc-abba6fb7f7db-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: tom petch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.02.10-54.240.48.110 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 15:28:07 -0000 > > It happens in the TLS WG, for example, where the registries of = security options are Expert Review and when an e-mail comes to IANA, = which may be from outside the IETF, the reviewers raise it on the TLS = list and if they are satisfied with the support, tell IANA to go ahead. Gotcha. Reviewer raises on list and returns result to IANA. No I-D = needed. Thanks, Kent From nobody Wed Feb 10 08:15:28 2021 Return-Path: <010001778cb9cf93-5e68e4c3-f85a-4d3c-931c-1913aec9de85-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C4B3A0E8E for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 08:15:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.917 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.917 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RKv-x3Gvd1CH for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 08:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B42F3A0ED7 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 08:15:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1612973723; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=xrerRBE4hVqCzyiikVdMaUnqTg68TIBDomg8Eox4rDA=; b=J67OolSbMxpOYdfvotR+t0JabYpvB6DcQ/dSpj/VkvvM4qqRFGss8UVABFoNABO1 ZwzJ+lCKvA01ynNSbglDL5XTt3FbUDyR5zQXeA3IqdqsuBlz+DFXMdap8P8+2dKMotG OhX2YHbs52Y+ItAFtsuiSlDK5s9qAdE8LiFgTCSM= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <010001778cb9cf93-5e68e4c3-f85a-4d3c-931c-1913aec9de85-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A962BB38-6998-4497-B975-8903F9AE49A1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 16:15:23 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" To: tom petch References: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017787e7c265-3993cc0c-a9c5-4072-b4bc-abba6fb7f7db-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210209191054.j4ggkl3lvt5c566o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.02.10-54.240.48.93 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 16:15:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A962BB38-6998-4497-B975-8903F9AE49A1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >=20 > The more interesting bit is what IANA has to say about this registry: >=20 > iana-crypt-hash YANG Module RFC 7317 > Expert Review (Expert: Unassigned) >=20 > Perhaps we should focus more on finding a volunteer willing to take > the role of the Designated Expert... I'm aware that IESG made a designation in 2019, but it's not reflected = here. It appears to be just that IANA didn=E2=80=99t update the page, = so I pinged them about that. >=20 > > That is several steps ahead of us and, as and when it arises, that is = the job of the IESG, not us.=20 >=20 > The first task, for us or for the NTP WG (who want it to happen) or = ... is to reach a consensus on whether or not the module is fit for = purpose, or whether it needs updating. This? =20 NEW: feature crypt-hash-md5 { status deprecated; description "Indicates that the device supports the MD5 hash function in 'crypt-hash' values."; reference "RFC 1321: The MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm"; } And also: revision 2021-MM-DD { description =E2=80=9CDeprecated the 'crypt-hash-md5=E2=80=99 feature."; reference "RFC 7317: A YANG Data Model for System Management"; } And publish the result as iana-crypt-hash@2021-MM-DD.yang Works for me. Kent --Apple-Mail=_A962BB38-6998-4497-B975-8903F9AE49A1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

The more interesting bit is what IANA has to = say about this registry:

iana-crypt-hash = YANG Module     RFC 7317
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;      Expert Review (Expert: = Unassigned)

Perhaps we should focus more on = finding a volunteer willing to take
the role of the = Designated Expert...

I'm aware that IESG made a designation in 2019, = but it's not reflected here.  It appears to be just that IANA = didn=E2=80=99t update the page, so I pinged them about that.


<tp>
That is several steps = ahead of us and, as and when it arises, that is the job of the IESG, not = us.

The first task, for us or for the NTP = WG (who want it to happen) or ... is to reach a consensus on whether or = not the module is fit for purpose, or whether it needs updating.

This?
 
NEW:

     feature crypt-hash-md5 {
  =      status deprecated;
  =      description
    =      "Indicates that the device supports the = MD5
          hash = function in 'crypt-hash' values.";
    =    reference "RFC 1321: The MD5 Message-Digest = Algorithm";
     }

And also:

    =  revision 2021-MM-DD {
      =  description
        =  =E2=80=9CDeprecated the 'crypt-hash-md5=E2=80=99 = feature.";
      =  reference
        =  "RFC 7317: A YANG Data Model for System Management";
     }

And publish the result as iana-crypt-hash@2021-MM-DD.yang

Works for me.

Kent

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Wed, 10 Feb 2021 16:46:59 +0000 From: tom petch To: Kent Watsen CC: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 Thread-Index: AQHW/t6Mi+fY5qf6xk+Z/p2uciqWmqpQDh4AgAAAyRiAAAqfAIAAF1AAgAEPGgmAAFIxgIAAB8qv Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 16:46:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017787e7c265-3993cc0c-a9c5-4072-b4bc-abba6fb7f7db-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210209191054.j4ggkl3lvt5c566o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> , <010001778cb9cf93-5e68e4c3-f85a-4d3c-931c-1913aec9de85-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010001778cb9cf93-5e68e4c3-f85a-4d3c-931c-1913aec9de85-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.146.121.140] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b5fae5af-84fe-482a-ce10-08d8cde37bd5 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM7PR07MB7012: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b5fae5af-84fe-482a-ce10-08d8cde37bd5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Feb 2021 16:46:59.1426 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: /q2beuQXz6jwmSg7zFDNxkrWXah2OgTCiPs60z665XErcMuynjAwkzhs5jd4I9VWStODP5HcElurbshQmZjYJw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB7012 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 16:47:07 -0000 From: Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 10 February 2021 16:15=0A= =0A= The more interesting bit is what IANA has to say about this registry:=0A= =0A= iana-crypt-hash YANG Module RFC 7317=0A= Expert Review (Expert: Unassigned)=0A= =0A= Perhaps we should focus more on finding a volunteer willing to take=0A= the role of the Designated Expert...=0A= =0A= I'm aware that IESG made a designation in 2019, but it's not reflected here= . It appears to be just that IANA didn=92t update the page, so I pinged th= em about that.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= That is several steps ahead of us and, as and when it arises, that is the j= ob of the IESG, not us.=0A= =0A= The first task, for us or for the NTP WG (who want it to happen) or ... is = to reach a consensus on whether or not the module is fit for purpose, or wh= ether it needs updating.=0A= =0A= This?=0A= =0A= NEW:=0A= =0A= feature crypt-hash-md5 {=0A= status deprecated;=0A= description=0A= "Indicates that the device supports the MD5=0A= hash function in 'crypt-hash' values.";=0A= reference "RFC 1321: The MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm";=0A= }=0A= =0A= And also:=0A= =0A= revision 2021-MM-DD {=0A= description=0A= =93Deprecated the 'crypt-hash-md5=92 feature.";=0A= reference=0A= "RFC 7317: A YANG Data Model for System Management";=0A= }=0A= =0A= And publish the result as iana-crypt-hash@2021-MM-DD.yang=0A= =0A= Works for me.=0A= =0A= =0A= Not quite for me. The current version is that on the IANA website, RFC7317= is history at least for IANACH so I think that the YANG reference for the = update should be to the IANA website.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= Kent=0A= =0A= From nobody Wed Feb 10 09:25:31 2021 Return-Path: <010001778cf9f1a6-cf78c278-ec2b-4410-9939-5c51e3cc9844-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB80A3A1085 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 09:25:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l2Z3SOPPxXWK for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 09:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03F503A1079 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 09:25:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1612977926; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=CZGyCLrLK0dvDkDyG33sgKpsFtP9UXxq1Ry6uplhL9I=; b=UxDxhKBMhUW2fy0SLgpnceCEJLcgzEfXVO0MYeVjNkSOKEjP3S4Z63u++j75XiUb SL0J1schFrarTgR5alofw6tZUkcGHep67SCISDXZE3YAIeogkPRb13Azk3wdTLKFLTJ 4NxnHZjbN/NX2sAT3s5rjvWJWn0MrOjx+9rE2rQM= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 17:25:26 +0000 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <010001778cf9f1a6-cf78c278-ec2b-4410-9939-5c51e3cc9844-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017787e7c265-3993cc0c-a9c5-4072-b4bc-abba6fb7f7db-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210209191054.j4ggkl3lvt5c566o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <010001778cb9cf93-5e68e4c3-f85a-4d3c-931c-1913aec9de85-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: tom petch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.02.10-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 17:25:30 -0000 > On Feb 10, 2021, at 11:46 AM, tom petch wrote: >=20 > Not quite for me. The current version is that on the IANA website, = RFC7317 is history at least for IANACH so I think that the YANG = reference for the update should be to the IANA website. >=20 Please provide OLD/NEW text. FWIW, RFC8407 says: A "revision" statement MUST be present for each published version of the module. The "revision" statement MUST have a "reference" substatement. It MUST identify the published document that contains the module. So what is the =E2=80=9Cdocument=E2=80=9D? revision 2021-MM-DD { description =E2=80=9CDeprecated the 'crypt-hash-md5=E2=80=99 feature per RFC = 6151."; reference "RFC 6151: Updated Security Considerations for the MD5 Message-Digest and the HMAC-MD5 Algorithms"; } But note that 6151 was published long before 7317 and, besides, it = doesn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9Cdeprecate=E2=80=9D MD5. We can=E2=80=99t reference 8573 because it's NTP-specific. Perhaps = iana-crypt-hash is fine, and instead ntp-yang-data-model should be = republished, augmenting in the desired =E2=80=9Cstatus=E2=80=9D while = referencing 8573. 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YANG Usage Guidelines Modules in IETF Standards Track specifications MUST comply with all syntactic and semantic requirements of YANG 1.1 [RFC7950]. The rule you quoted does not apply since we are talking about an IANA document. /js On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 05:25:26PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > On Feb 10, 2021, at 11:46 AM, tom petch wrote: > > > > Not quite for me. The current version is that on the IANA website, RFC7317 is history at least for IANACH so I think that the YANG reference for the update should be to the IANA website. > > > > Please provide OLD/NEW text. > > FWIW, RFC8407 says: > > A "revision" statement MUST be present for each published version of > the module. The "revision" statement MUST have a "reference" > substatement. It MUST identify the published document that contains > the module. > > So what is the “documentâ€? > > revision 2021-MM-DD { > description > “Deprecated the 'crypt-hash-md5’ feature per RFC 6151."; > reference > "RFC 6151: > Updated Security Considerations for the MD5 > Message-Digest and the HMAC-MD5 Algorithms"; > } > > But note that 6151 was published long before 7317 and, besides, it doesn’t “deprecate†MD5. > > We can’t reference 8573 because it's NTP-specific. Perhaps iana-crypt-hash is fine, and instead ntp-yang-data-model should be republished, augmenting in the desired “status†while referencing 8573. > > K. > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Feb 10 13:02:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEABE3A14DA for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 13:02:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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boundary="_000_BN6PR11MB1667263199065DB18030D690B88D9BN6PR11MB1667namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BN6PR11MB1667.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 283655c4-cde4-4f34-3df3-08d8ce072e8f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Feb 2021 21:02:31.3247 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: SmVgMPcRBUXifJZ7Ez2TrooINZHmMmkO+zaocMC8h+VZnv1KTUHq+Q5t8Q/sd1nifv4SelFiM6x6pEArFZ7z4g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR1101MB2177 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.15, xch-aln-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-01-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 21:02:37 -0000 --_000_BN6PR11MB1667263199065DB18030D690B88D9BN6PR11MB1667namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On T4 (gaps in revision numbers and revision history), I have some proposed= text for both draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning and draft-ietf-netm= od-yang-semver. See these diffs (some changes are due to xml2rfc changes, = but you'll note the more substantive text additions). Thoughts: module-versioning : https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod= -yang-module-versioning&url2=3Dhttps://namale.marcuscom.com/~jclarke/draft-= ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning.txt yang-semver : https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yang-= semver&url2=3Dhttps://namale.marcuscom.com/~jclarke/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-= semver.txt Joe On 1/12/21 13:43, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-01-12 Topics and owners for Feb virtual interim: Reshad - editor for YANG versioning draft Jason - coordinate virtual interim, agenda. Do introduction at VI. T1) Definition/meaning of BC vs NBC for config false nodes https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/15 - Balazs T2) IANA considerations: how are final RFC revision labels assigned ? https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/59 - Rob T3) YANG file naming when revision labels are being used (symbolic links? @= ) ? - Reshad to prepare material, TBD to present/lead at VI T4) SemVer: gaps in history, removing revision statements https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/61 - Joe We spent most of the time discussing Balazs' rules for backwards compatibil= ity of config false nodes (T1 above): - clients SHOULD be able to deal with (not crash) unexpected output - some changes to config false nodes should be BC (increasing value space w= ithin the same type), some will be NBC (e.g. removing mandatory, changing t= ype) - the YANG author can mark a change that increases value space as NBC if th= ey feel it is significant & breaks compatibility We also talked briefly about Rob's proposal for IANA considerations (T2 abo= ve). - we may also want some guidance for RFC editors (coordinate with authors o= n final SemVer for example) Next week we'll continue focus on the four Virtual Interim topics. Other topics we need to get back to at some point: - whitespace - github issues (left off at #15) Jason --_000_BN6PR11MB1667263199065DB18030D690B88D9BN6PR11MB1667namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On T4 (gaps in revision numbers and revision history), I have some proposed= text for both draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning and draft-ietf-netm= od-yang-semver.  See these diffs (some changes are due to xml2rfc chan= ges, but you'll note the more substantive text additions).  Thoughts:

module-versioning : https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-version= ing&url2=3Dhttps://namale.marcuscom.com/~jclarke/draft-ietf-netmod-yang= -module-versioning.txt

yang-semver : https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver&url= 2=3Dhttps://namale.marcuscom.com/~jclarke/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver.txt=

Joe

On 1/12/21 13:43, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/= Ottawa) wrote:

YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-01-12

 

Topics and owners for Feb virtual interim:

 

Reshad - editor for YAN= G versioning draft

Jason - coordinate virt= ual interim, agenda. Do introduction at VI.

 

T1) Definition/meaning = of BC vs NBC for config false nodes

htt= ps://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/15

- Balazs

 

T2) IANA considerations= : how are final RFC revision labels assigned ?

htt= ps://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/59

- Rob

 

T3) YANG file naming wh= en revision labels are being used (symbolic links? @<revision-label>)= ?

- Reshad to prepare mat= erial, TBD to present/lead at VI

 

T4) SemVer: gaps in his= tory, removing revision statements

htt= ps://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/61

- Joe

 

We spent most of the time discussing Balazs' rules f= or backwards compatibility of config false nodes (T1 above):

- clients SHOULD be able to deal with (not crash) un= expected output

- some changes to config false nodes should be BC (i= ncreasing value space within the same type), some will be NBC (e.g. removin= g mandatory, changing type)

- the YANG author can mark a change that increases v= alue space as NBC if they feel it is significant & breaks compatibility=

 

We also talked briefly about Rob's proposal for IANA= considerations (T2 above).

- we may also want some guidance for RFC editors (co= ordinate with authors on final SemVer for example)

 

Next week we'll continue focus on the four Virtual I= nterim topics.

 

Other topics we need to get back to at some point:

- whitespace

- github issues (left off at #15)

 

Jason

 


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Thu, 11 Feb 2021 12:51:50 +0000 From: tom petch To: Kent Watsen , Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 Thread-Index: AQHW/t6Mi+fY5qf6xk+Z/p2uciqWmqpQDh4AgAAAyRiAAAqfAIAAF1AAgAEPGgmAAFIxgIAAB8qvgAALyACAAAHpAIABQwP6 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 12:51:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017787e7c265-3993cc0c-a9c5-4072-b4bc-abba6fb7f7db-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210209191054.j4ggkl3lvt5c566o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <010001778cb9cf93-5e68e4c3-f85a-4d3c-931c-1913aec9de85-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001778cf9f1a6-cf78c278-ec2b-4410-9939-5c51e3cc9844-000000@email.amazonses.com>, <20210210173216.gih23jizdsrpacpk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20210210173216.gih23jizdsrpacpk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2b5cbbf3-9ba8-4455-715e-08d8ce8bcc96 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Feb 2021 12:51:49.9848 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: F+97xxnwm7bn3wAhuRBimuaWUIHXm5RGYBaLz34LfJKgvWSE1umXlW1Lx/HFgxSNv39K8DiCeD5Fcgq8U7CdYw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB5192 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 12:51:56 -0000 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =0A= Sent: 10 February 2021 17:32=0A= RFC 8407:=0A= =0A= 4. YANG Usage Guidelines=0A= =0A= Modules in IETF Standards Track specifications MUST comply with all=0A= syntactic and semantic requirements of YANG 1.1 [RFC7950].=0A= =0A= The rule you quoted does not apply since we are talking about an IANA=0A= document.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Yes. This is the sort of detail that I would leave to IANA to sort out tru= sting them to come back as and when they want clarification. I would start= with a reference clause to the current version on the IANA website. The w= eakness of this is that once IANA have performed the update, then the previ= ous version will not be readily available, unlike RFC which last a long tim= e but as I say, leave the detail to IANA.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= /js=0A= =0A= On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 05:25:26PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > > On Feb 10, 2021, at 11:46 AM, tom petch wrote:=0A= > >=0A= > > Not quite for me. The current version is that on the IANA website, RFC= 7317 is history at least for IANACH so I think that the YANG reference for = the update should be to the IANA website.=0A= > >=0A= >=0A= > Please provide OLD/NEW text.=0A= >=0A= > FWIW, RFC8407 says:=0A= >=0A= > A "revision" statement MUST be present for each published version of= =0A= > the module. The "revision" statement MUST have a "reference"=0A= > substatement. It MUST identify the published document that contains= =0A= > the module.=0A= >=0A= > So what is the =93document=94?=0A= >=0A= > revision 2021-MM-DD {=0A= > description=0A= > =93Deprecated the 'crypt-hash-md5=92 feature per RFC 6151.";=0A= > reference=0A= > "RFC 6151:=0A= > Updated Security Considerations for the MD5=0A= > Message-Digest and the HMAC-MD5 Algorithms";=0A= > }=0A= >=0A= > But note that 6151 was published long before 7317 and, besides, it doesn= =92t =93deprecate=94 MD5.=0A= >=0A= > We can=92t reference 8573 because it's NTP-specific. Perhaps iana-crypt-= hash is fine, and instead ntp-yang-data-model should be republished, augmen= ting in the desired =93status=94 while referencing 8573.=0A= >=0A= > K.=0A= > _______________________________________________=0A= > netmod mailing list=0A= > netmod@ietf.org=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= =0A= --=0A= Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= From nobody Thu Feb 11 06:56:39 2021 Return-Path: <010001779197f756-d2bac46a-461c-4b69-82aa-017a43fb484d-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5E13A1677 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 06:56:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qZ71nLdoX0Rz for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 06:56:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from a48-90.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-90.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53ADC3A1679 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 06:56:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1613055391; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=DjVUcFfw4NhJmuqY2ZsbF/rl1UV8yfJbxJOWb7iiJ7o=; b=EBsHj+IGchyy8B0V1tBTVI6JrH/l2OcRKsBaveJ7K3fLFERuP/EI93/TwqTMo3yS hiC3VF3lsWlBinHqRs0WBUyl9l0K4U1tnGEOkoCIjDYUcrf+lw9yE409hkYSXjUnErB kuCyhTzlaXIvVSSDLdI3WvM7wQgBzM+N90FGG/cE= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:56:31 +0000 Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <010001779197f756-d2bac46a-461c-4b69-82aa-017a43fb484d-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100017787c260d9-55bdd1ae-c12b-4cb6-87b4-94e95951fe36-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017787e7c265-3993cc0c-a9c5-4072-b4bc-abba6fb7f7db-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210209191054.j4ggkl3lvt5c566o@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <010001778cb9cf93-5e68e4c3-f85a-4d3c-931c-1913aec9de85-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001778cf9f1a6-cf78c278-ec2b-4410-9939-5c51e3cc9844-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210210173216.gih23jizdsrpacpk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: tom petch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.02.11-54.240.48.90 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] MD5 in ianach ex-RFC7317 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:56:37 -0000 Hi Tom, > I would start with a reference clause to the current version on the = IANA website. =20 Please propose specific text. Thanks, Kent // expert reviewer hat From nobody Fri Feb 12 16:34:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D38343A118E; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:33:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: netmod@ietf.org, rwilton@cisco.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.25.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <161317639984.31337.10444340618170736047@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:33:19 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] netmod - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 110 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 00:33:26 -0000 Dear Liz Flynn, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. netmod Session 1 (2:00 requested) Friday, 12 March 2021, Session III 1700-1900 Room Name: Room 4 size: 504 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/sessions/netmod.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Modeling Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Liz Flynn Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: netconf teas detnet Key Participant Conflict: raw ipsecme People who must be present: Joel Jaeggli Kent Watsen Lou Berger Robert Wilton Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Feb 13 09:53:16 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D093A07F7 for ; 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Sat, 13 Feb 2021 17:53:10 +0000 Received: by smtp405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 74851f8c07276c2c021c99cb028c2689; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 17:53:07 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.44.20121301 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 12:53:03 -0500 From: Reshad Rahman To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" , "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-01-12 References: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3696065587_786072090" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.17712 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-01-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 17:53:15 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3696065587_786072090 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Joe, =20 The extra spaces are due to xml2rfc? Should we bump up the version because = of extra white-space =F0=9F=98=8A Section 3.3.2, good with me. Last sentence may need a small tweak, e.g s/ma= y cause loss of visibility to when/may cause loss of visibility as to when/? =20 Yang-semver changes also good with me. =20 Regards, Reshad. =20 From: netmod on behalf of "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" = Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 4:02 PM To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "netmod@i= etf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-01-12 =20 On T4 (gaps in revision numbers and revision history), I have some proposed= text for both draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning and draft-ietf-netmo= d-yang-semver. See these diffs (some changes are due to xml2rfc changes, bu= t you'll note the more substantive text additions). Thoughts: module-versioning : https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-y= ang-module-versioning&url2=3Dhttps://namale.marcuscom.com/~jclarke/draft-ietf-= netmod-yang-module-versioning.txt yang-semver : https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yang-se= mver&url2=3Dhttps://namale.marcuscom.com/~jclarke/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semve= r.txt Joe On 1/12/21 13:43, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-01-12 =20 Topics and owners for Feb virtual interim: =20 Reshad - editor for YANG versioning draft Jason - coordinate virtual interim, agenda. Do introduction at VI. =20 T1) Definition/meaning of BC vs NBC for config false nodes https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/15 - Balazs =20 T2) IANA considerations: how are final RFC revision labels assigned ? https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/59 - Rob =20 T3) YANG file naming when revision labels are being used (symbolic links? @= ) ? - Reshad to prepare material, TBD to present/lead at VI =20 T4) SemVer: gaps in history, removing revision statements https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/61 - Joe =20 We spent most of the time discussing Balazs' rules for backwards compatibil= ity of config false nodes (T1 above): - clients SHOULD be able to deal with (not crash) unexpected output - some changes to config false nodes should be BC (increasing value space w= ithin the same type), some will be NBC (e.g. removing mandatory, changing ty= pe)=20 - the YANG author can mark a change that increases value space as NBC if th= ey feel it is significant & breaks compatibility =20 We also talked briefly about Rob's proposal for IANA considerations (T2 abo= ve). - we may also want some guidance for RFC editors (coordinate with authors o= n final SemVer for example) =20 Next week we'll continue focus on the four Virtual Interim topics. =20 Other topics we need to get back to at some point: - whitespace - github issues (left off at #15) =20 Jason =20 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@= ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=20 --B_3696065587_786072090 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Joe,

 

The extra spaces= are due to xml2rfc? Should we bump up the version because of extra white-sp= ace 😊

Section 3.3.2, good with me. Last sentence may need = a small tweak, e.g s/may cause loss of visibility to when/may cause loss of = visibility as to when/?

 

Yang-semver changes also good with me.

 

Regards,=

Reshad.

 <= /o:p>

From: netmod <n= etmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <= ;jclarke=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Wednesday, February = 10, 2021 at 4:02 PM
To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)&qu= ot; <jason.sterne@nokia.com>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@i= etf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minu= tes - 2021-01-12

&nb= sp;

On T4 (ga= ps in revision numbers and revision history), I have some proposed text for = both draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-sem= ver.  See these diffs (some changes are due to xml2rfc changes, but you= 'll note the more substantive text additions).  Thoughts:

module= -versioning : https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1= =3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning&url2=3Dhttps://namale.marcuscom.= com/~jclarke/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning.txt

yang-se= mver : https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yang-semve= r&url2=3Dhttps://namale.marcuscom.com/~jclarke/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semv= er.txt

Joe

On 1/12/21 13:43= , Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:

YANG Versioni= ng Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-01-12

 <= o:p>

Topics and owners for Feb virtual interim:<= o:p>

 

Reshad - editor for YANG versioning draft=

Jason - coordinate virtual= interim, agenda. Do introduction at VI.

 

T1) Definition/meaning of BC vs NBC for config false nodes

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yan= g-ver-dt/issues/15

- Balazs

=  

T2) IANA = considerations: how are final RFC revision labels assigned ?

<= p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'>https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issue= s/59

- Rob

 =

T3) YANG file naming when = revision labels are being used (symbolic links? @<revision-label>) ?

- Reshad to prepa= re material, TBD to present/lead at VI

 

T4) SemVer: gaps in history, removing revision statements=

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-v= er-dt/issues/61

- Joe

 

We spent most of the time discussing Balazs' rules for backwards comp= atibility of config false nodes (T1 above):

- clients SHOULD be able to deal with (not crash) unexpected output

- some changes to config false nodes should be BC = (increasing value space within the same type), some will be NBC (e.g. removi= ng mandatory, changing type)

- the YANG au= thor can mark a change that increases value space as NBC if they feel it is = significant & breaks compatibility

&nbs= p;

We also talked briefly about Rob's propo= sal for IANA considerations (T2 above).

- w= e may also want some guidance for RFC editors (coordinate with authors on fi= nal SemVer for example)

 

Next week we'll continue focus on the four Virtual Inte= rim topics.

 

Other topics we need to get back to at some point:

- whitespace

- github issu= es (left off at #15)

 

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>Jason

 


______________________________________= _________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l= istinfo/netmod

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22:34:17.1605 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: eb60ac54-2184-4344-9b60-40c8b2b72561 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 9eZQnOwAQMbhIpoqMxJuOYmJMhZWPiUN8mWEA2jVLJImpswOOSAHa834VhJz7KxEIUeJZOegl/Y7i7Oicdw2Ug== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR14MB3437 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] IETF 110 Slot Requests X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 22:34:22 -0000 WG, The *final* agenda for IETF110 has been posted - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/agenda     Friday, 12 March 2021, Session III 16:00-18:00 (UTC) iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/sessions/nemod.ics This will be fully remote meeting.  Our plan to cover updates, open issues, and covering new topics in the first half of the meeting, and to use the remaining time to discuss open issues on the Versioning drafts. Please send slot requests to netmod-chairs@ietf.org before the end of the day Monday, February 22 (any TZ).  Please include draft names(s), presenter, desired slot length.  Also, please let us know if you think the topic would be better covered in a Virtual Interim to be held at a future date. Please keep in mind that priority for agenda time is given to WG drafts and other drafts/topics discussed on the mailing list. Thank you ! Lou, Kent and Joel Important dates: IETF 110: 2021-03-06, Online, CZ 2021-02-12 (Friday): Final agenda to be published. 2021-02-22 (Monday): Standard rate registration and payment cut-off at UTC 23:59.. 2021-02-22 (Monday): Internet Draft submission cut-off (for all drafts, including -00) by UTC 23:59. Upload using the ID Submission Tool. 2021-02-24 (Wednesday): Draft Working Group agendas due by UTC 23:59. Upload using the Meeting Materials Management Tool. 2021-03-01 (Monday): Registration cancellation cut-off at UTC 23:59. 2021-03-01 (Monday): Revised Working Group agendas due by UTC 23:59. Upload using the Meeting Materials Management Tool. 2021-04-02 (Friday): Proceedings submission cutoff date by UTC 23:59. Upload using the Meeting Materials Management Tool. 2021-04-26 (Monday): Proceedings submission corrections cutoff date by UTC 23:59. 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Wed, 17 Feb 2021 15:56:38 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-16 Thread-Index: AdcFRXRD+4lSYk3mSJG2VxNvQHoPiQ== Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 15:56:38 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [174.112.3.120] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c5dcb6a3-0521-4fe7-5dc2-08d8d35c9c4e x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR08MB6314: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:4502; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-16 Agenda bashing: - updated drafts (due Monday) - presentations (NETMOD, March 12 for NETMOD) - Reshad's email (re various updates to module versioning - Jason's email (re what discretion do authors have to mark NBC and bump th= e Major Semver) - Whitespace: Adds annotations *in the same file* (doing deviations, or me= tadata in a separate file doesn't affect the version) - review whitespace internally first, then send to WG alias - revision date/label is for that *published* version (that file & format) Reshad's email (re various updates to module versioning - issue #23: concern about dependency on the bis version of 6991 - issue #11: how NBC changes can break imports (see email from Sunday) - issue #12: define BC vs NBC for extension statements ? park & bring to WG= (maybe in IETF 110?). Jason's email (re what discretion do authors have to mark NBC and bump the = Major Semver) - disagreement on when NBC is allowed - if bump major SemVer do you have to have the rev:nbc-changes tag? And vi= ce versa? ------------------------------------- Weekly webex call details: Meeting number (access code): 171 069 0374 Meeting password: semver? Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, September 1, 2020 until Tuesday, Au= gust 24, 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & Cana= da) 9:00 am | (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) | 1 hr https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma7627a2ae7b770537cff5f5b89293c70 Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only) +1-650-479-3208,,1710690374## Call-in toll number (US/Canada) --_000_DM6PR08MB50843E8B7333836E5D86C24D9B869DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-02-16

 

Agenda bashing:

- updated drafts (due Monday)

- presentations (NETMOD, March 12 for NETMOD)

- Reshad's email (re various updates to module versi= oning

- Jason's email (re what discretion do authors have = to mark NBC and bump the Major Semver)

 

- Whitespace: Adds annotations *in the same file*&nb= sp; (doing deviations, or metadata in a separate file doesn't affect the ve= rsion)

- review whitespace internally first, then send to W= G alias

- revision date/label is for that *published* versio= n (that file & format)

 

Reshad's email (re various updates to module version= ing

- issue #23: concern about dependency on the bis ver= sion of 6991

- issue #11: how NBC changes can break imports (see = email from Sunday)

- issue #12: define BC vs NBC for extension statemen= ts ? park & bring to WG (maybe in IETF 110?).

 

Jason's email (re what discretion do authors have to= mark NBC and bump the Major Semver)

- disagreement on when NBC is allowed

- if bump major SemVer do you have to have the rev:n= bc-changes tag?  And vice versa?

 

-------------------------------------

Weekly webex call details:

Meeting number (access code): 171 069 0374

Meeting password: semver?

Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, September 1,= 2020 until Tuesday, August 24, 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-04:00) = Eastern Time (US & Canada)

9:00 am  |  (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US &= amp; Canada)  |  1 hr

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma7627a2ae7= b770537cff5f5b89293c70

Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only)

+1-650-479-3208,,1710690374## Call-in toll number (U= S/Canada)

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(cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51CE13A10F6 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 03:51:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.3]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee3602e54be8cb-9f487; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 19:51:27 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee3602e54be8cb-9f487 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from LAPTOP-NEH48QIJ (unknown[120.244.192.189]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee2602e54bdf9a-adf56; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 19:51:27 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee2602e54bdf9a-adf56 MIME-Version: 1.0 x-PcFlag: f947991a-14d6-457b-afb4-36b45cb17803_2_23370 X-Mailer: PC_RICHMAIL 2.8.5 Date: 18 Feb 2021 19:51:23 +0800 From: =?utf-8?B?UGVuZyBMaXUgfCDliJjpuY8=?= To: =?utf-8?B?UWluIFd1?= Cc: netmod Message-ID: <20210218195123242323715@chinamobile.com> Content-Type: multipart/Alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart242323715_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 11:51:43 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart242323715_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQ1IaSBRaW4gYW5kIGF1dGhvcnMsDQ0NSSBoYXZlIHJlYWQgdGhlIHYtMDAgb2YgZHJhZnQtaWV0 Zi1uZXRtb2Qtbm9kZS10YWdzIGFuZCBoYXZlIHR3byBxdWljayBxdWVzdGlvbnMNMS4gRm9yIHNl Y3Rpb24gMS4xLjEsIGNhbiBhbiBvYmplY3QgaGF2ZSBtb3JlIHRoYW4gb25lIG1ldHJpYyB0YWdz PyBNYXliZSBpdCBjYW4gYmUgdXNlZCBpbiB0aGUgdW1sIG1vZGVsIGJ1dCBtYXkgaGF2ZSB0aGUg cHJvYmxlbSBvZiBoYXJkIHRvIGRpc3Rpbmd1aXNoIGluIHlhbmcgbW9kdWxlLg0yLiBDYW4gdGhl IE11bHRpcGxlIFNvdXJjZSBUYWcgYmUgYXBwbGllZCB0byB0aGUgcHJvcGVydHkgdGFnIG9mIE9Q TT8gSWYgc28sIGlzIHRoZXJlIGFueSBleGFtcGxlPw0NDQ0NVGhhbmtzLA0NUGVuZw0NDQ0tLS0t 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Hi=20= Qin=20and=20authors,

I=20have=20read=20the= =20v-00=20of=20draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags=20and=20have=20two=20quick=20que= stions
1.=20For=20section=201.1.1,=20can=20an=20object=20have=20more=20t= han=20one=20metric=20tags?=20Maybe=20it=20can=20be=20used=20in=20the=20uml= =20model=20but=20may=20have=20the=20problem=20of=20hard=20to=20distinguish= =20in=20yang=20module.
2.=20Can=20the=20Multiple=20Source=20Tag=20be=20a= pplied=20to=20the=20property=20tag=20of=20OPM?=20If=20so,=20is=20there=20an= y=20example?

Thanks,
Peng


-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5= =8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=20I-D-Announce=20=5Bma= ilto:i-d-announce-bounces=40ietf.org=5D=20=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8=20internet-dra= fts=40ietf.org
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:=202020=E5=B9=B412= =E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5=2022:52
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=20i-d-announce= =40ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:=20netmod=40ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2= =98:=20I-D=20Action:=20draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-00.txt


A=20Ne= w=20Internet-Draft=20is=20available=20from=20the=20on-line=20Internet-Draft= s=20directories.
This=20draft=20is=20a=20work=20item=20of=20the=20Networ= k=20Modeling=20WG=20of=20the=20IETF.

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Title= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20:=20Self=20Describing=20Data=20Object=20Ta= gs
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Authors=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20:=20Qin=20W= u
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20Benoit=20Claise
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Liang=20Geng
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Zongpeng=20Du
=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= Mohamed=20Boucadair
=09Filename=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20:=20draft-ietf-ne= tmod-node-tags-00.txt
=09Pages=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20:=2026=09Date=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20:=202020-12-28

Abstract:=
=20=20=20This=20document=20defines=20a=20method=20to=20tag=20data=20obj= ects=20associated=20with
=20=20=20operation=20and=20management=20data=20= in=20YANG=20Modules.=20=20This=20YANG=20data=20object
=20=20=20tagging= =20method=20can=20be=20used=20to=20classify=20data=20objects=20from=20diffe= rent
=20=20=20YANG=20modules=20and=20identify=20characteristics=20data.= =20=20It=20also=20can=20provide
=20=20=20input,=20instruction,=20indicat= ion=20to=20selection=20filter=20and=20filter=20queries
=20=20=20of=20ope= rational=20state=20on=20a=20server=20during=20a=20=22pub/sub=22=20service= =20for=20YANG
=20=20=20datastore=20updates.=20=20When=20the=20state=20of= =20all=20subscriptions=20of=20a
=20=20=20particular=20Subscriber=20to=20= be=20fetched=20is=20huge,=20the=20amount=20of=20data=20to=20be
=20=20=20= streamed=20out=20to=20the=20destination=20can=20be=20greatly=20reduced=20an= d=20only
=20=20=20targeted=20to=20the=20characteristics=20data.=20=20The= se=20data=20object=20tags=20may=20be
=20=20=20registered=20as=20well=20a= s=20assigned=20during=20the=20module=20definition;=20assigned
=20=20=20b= y=20implementations;=20or=20dynamically=20defined=20and=20set=20by=20users.=


The=20IETF=20datatracker=20status=20page=20for=20this=20draft= =20is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags/
=
There=20are=20also=20htmlized=20versions=20available=20at:
https://t= ools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-00
https://datatracker.ie= tf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-00


Please=20note=20t= hat=20it=20may=20take=20a=20couple=20of=20minutes=20from=20the=20time=20of= =20submission=20until=20the=20htmlized=20version=20and=20diff=20are=20avail= able=20at=20tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts=20are=20also=20available= =20by=20anonymous=20FTP=20at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce=20mail= ing=20list
I-D-Announce=40ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/i-d-announce
Internet-Draft=20directories:=20http://www.ietf.org/sha= dow.html=20or=20ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 13:49:46 -0000 --_000_DM6PR11MB3161A7FBFD19B872F29AD0ADC6849DM6PR11MB3161namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all. I'm working with an issue involving a deviate replace type and the problem = is where the type should be resolved. The scope in which the deviated property is resolved in is not explicitly stated in RFC 7950 (7.20.3.2). This would have impact when replacing the ty= pe, both when it's prefixed and when it's not. It does seem logical, and also in line with the rest of the RFC, to evaluat= e the replaced property in deviating module scope and not target module scope. Can deviating module scope be assumed? Should the RFC be clarified and the scope explicitly stated? BR /Peter Lundell --_000_DM6PR11MB3161A7FBFD19B872F29AD0ADC6849DM6PR11MB3161namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all.

I'm working with an issue involving a deviate replace type and the pro= blem is
where the type should be resolved.

The scope in which the deviated property is resolved in is not explici= tly
stated in RFC 7950 (7.20.3.2). This would have impact when replacing t= he type,
both when it's prefixed and when it's not.
It does seem logical, and also in line with the rest of the RFC, to ev= aluate the
replaced property in deviating module scope and not target module scop= e.
Can deviating module scope be assumed?
Should the RFC be clarified and the scope explicitly stated?

BR
/Peter Lundell


--_000_DM6PR11MB3161A7FBFD19B872F29AD0ADC6849DM6PR11MB3161namp_-- From nobody Fri Feb 19 06:45:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D34F3A0DDE for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 06:45:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_NAKED_TO_NUMERO=1.999, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=YiQ9/tYf; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Ap/Itk8H Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e0PiKMhxzld8 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 06:45:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 420F13A0DC0 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 06:45:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 818475C0127; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:45:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:45:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh= eU1irFi8gwYJB6GnqlIJc8+6UiGzpTIYTyPYTKZM7Kc=; b=YiQ9/tYfEeP42/wj zaRkLqivYycFJ037g3aiU/Ot0Mwo84tWp/rSn4MmU0Rd+3us3CR2BJp7+IpKBfS+ jjnLG8kUqdciLNxWzx7VORdBljILIuXKBls+ZcQsLSUtSwd1Ls5e9u16lu2L4rby t3KRWJ8oJFpmGpMzxQDrwwpiAVWoR3R+S6xCP7PZKD7modo+5zytSy9g6SyjL2bq TPX3VxRzbRQHpzJOIi8RX1KnfNJa9BysLUwQWej++05457x1EkNfVPKOGOMjKNHx M8/iIChrUQfLbGZaynP3mJSwMAyXeLsKQ3hwDA11l7Ld5fG99FkHi7o7pEqULGb3 ZUULcQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=eU1irFi8gwYJB6GnqlIJc8+6UiGzpTIYTyPYTKZM7 Kc=; b=Ap/Itk8Hm9YBnp9qdU/xthkbPnnR+usreFkJ9rJ3VJ9+BUS02ogL+WIK2 ajYl0Ima/8H/RRLnnB5GwKfve8SM25EjZHT8JNkaHIn1ZQ3gBBp7hojKY//4ap7x vxmACC04Bdzzd7Dh5hoxzBf9beeJIUFQd2Jus6XkjthM5RvAVNqo5J9aQWcWcNtR kC/J0LCuyikF2nzIij7bozx9A+sZ+25ufCFxOQ9ZHEzBH4zRUBZA18fIey57iaAj IkMxYsxqdN64fLA/z5S6SPeEOpyqspCQO+heeGO2uTQPHFVFPQEVrae7aADqIrpN WuXixqAYDgzY6QwByZyu+yKLHKcOg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrjeeigdeikecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffkvffuhfgjfhfogggtgfesthhqre dtredtudenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhtihhnuceujhpnrhhklhhunhguuceomhgsjhdoihgv thhfseegieeikedrshgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeitdethfdthfekteelteekve eifefhudduueekvdefleegtdevgefgteefjefgleenucfkphepudehkedrudejgedrgedr vdduheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe hmsghjodhivghtfhesgeeiieekrdhsvg X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (unknown [158.174.4.215]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id CA6601080064; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:45:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 15:45:29 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20210219.154529.2075004464438647704.id@4668.se> To: plundell=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Clarification on deviating type resolve scope? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 14:45:36 -0000 Hi Peter, [Kul att se dig h=E4r!] "Peter Lundell \(plundell\)" wr= ote: > Hi all. > = > I'm working with an issue involving a deviate replace type and the pr= oblem is > where the type should be resolved. > = > The scope in which the deviated property is resolved in is not explic= itly > stated in RFC 7950 (7.20.3.2). This would have impact when replacing = the type, > both when it's prefixed and when it's not. > It does seem logical, and also in line with the rest of the RFC, to e= valuate the > replaced property in deviating module scope and not target module sco= pe. Section 5.1 says: Statements in the module or submodule can reference definitions in the external module using the prefix specified in the "import" statement. [...] When a definition in an external module is referenced, a locally defined prefix MUST be used, followed by a colon (":") and then the external identifier. References to definitions in the local module MAY use the prefix notation. This is a general rule, and it is not repeated in every place where it applies. So it applies to this case as well. /martin > Can deviating module scope be assumed? > Should the RFC be clarified and the scope explicitly stated? > = > BR > /Peter Lundell > = > = From nobody Fri Feb 19 08:56:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7BC43A1187 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:56:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JuvDRfi7_SNx for ; 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}; } with leaf foo { type uint8 { range "0..100"; }; } or with leaf foo { type int32 { range "0..100"; }; } or are these a non-backwards compatible changes? Note that the value set is always the same, however the underlying base type changes. Did we ever define type equivalence? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Feb 19 09:25:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E603A1555 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:25:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TXqXkFJ_wxNr for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BA693A159E for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:24:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dhz2W1BvszyTm; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 18:24:03 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210219165549.be7l2rbhdqfevhfl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 18:24:02 +0100 Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635448242.378456-a54bddd17ed7271997b401600ea9349d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4A8F7739-71AA-4CE0-B9D1-9F24C60B037D@tzi.org> References: <20210219165549.be7l2rbhdqfevhfl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 17:25:40 -0000 On 2021-02-19, at 17:55, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > can I safely replace >=20 > leaf foo { > type int8 { range "0..100"; }; > } >=20 > with >=20 > leaf foo { > type uint8 { range "0..100"; }; > } >=20 > or with >=20 > leaf foo { > type int32 { range "0..100"; }; > } >=20 > or are these a non-backwards compatible changes? I don=E2=80=99t have an answer to that, but would like to point you to = the table at the top of page 14 in draft-ietf-core-comi-11.txt [1], = which would make the first replacement a non-backwards compatible change = in the way we build URIs from that. [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-comi-11#page-14 > Note that the value > set is always the same, however the underlying base type changes. Did > we ever define type equivalence? The way unions are handled in YANG gives me the impression that as long = as the sets of XML representations generated by the two types are the = same, they are equivalent. 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For the XML and JSON encodings, all definitions lead to the same on-the-wire representation, hence the difference is more an implementation detail. I have no clue what the gnmi people do. The more diverse encodings we add, the more complex things get. /js On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 06:24:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-02-19, at 17:55, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > can I safely replace > > > > leaf foo { > > type int8 { range "0..100"; }; > > } > > > > with > > > > leaf foo { > > type uint8 { range "0..100"; }; > > } > > > > or with > > > > leaf foo { > > type int32 { range "0..100"; }; > > } > > > > or are these a non-backwards compatible changes? > > I don’t have an answer to that, but would like to point you to the table at the top of page 14 in draft-ietf-core-comi-11.txt [1], which would make the first replacement a non-backwards compatible change in the way we build URIs from that. > > [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-comi-11#page-14 > > > Note that the value > > set is always the same, however the underlying base type changes. Did > > we ever define type equivalence? > > The way unions are handled in YANG gives me the impression that as long as the sets of XML representations generated by the two types are the same, they are equivalent. > > Grüße, Carsten > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Feb 19 13:32:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5403D3A0964 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 13:32:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aDcF9upfDBMv for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 13:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C18C3A0977 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 13:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dj4YG5ZCVzyRY; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 22:32:34 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210219181858.arafmdtraq4ydir2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 22:32:34 +0100 Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635463154.0789911-814451c107b4a51d4c68e043e5e72e80 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210219165549.be7l2rbhdqfevhfl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <4A8F7739-71AA-4CE0-B9D1-9F24C60B037D@tzi.org> <20210219181858.arafmdtraq4ydir2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 21:32:42 -0000 > On 2021-02-19, at 19:18, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > I think the CBOR encoding picks different tags depending on the > signedness of the base type and this is why things are not that simple > anymore. (This is not the CBOR encoding, but the COMI encoding of keys in URIs.) > For the XML and JSON encodings, all definitions lead to the > same on-the-wire representation, hence the difference is more an > implementation detail. I have no clue what the gnmi people do. The > more diverse encodings we add, the more complex things get. Well, if the equivalence expectation that I was trying to describe = actually is ingrained, then whoever designs an encoding (COMI for its = URI encoding included) needs to respect it. That would be important to = know. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > /js >=20 > On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 06:24:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On 2021-02-19, at 17:55, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> can I safely replace >>>=20 >>> leaf foo { >>> type int8 { range "0..100"; }; >>> } >>>=20 >>> with >>>=20 >>> leaf foo { >>> type uint8 { range "0..100"; }; >>> } >>>=20 >>> or with >>>=20 >>> leaf foo { >>> type int32 { range "0..100"; }; >>> } >>>=20 >>> or are these a non-backwards compatible changes? >>=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t have an answer to that, but would like to point you = to the table at the top of page 14 in draft-ietf-core-comi-11.txt [1], = which would make the first replacement a non-backwards compatible change = in the way we build URIs from that. >>=20 >> [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-comi-11#page-14 >>=20 >>> Note that the value >>> set is always the same, however the underlying base type changes. = Did >>> we ever define type equivalence? >>=20 >> The way unions are handled in YANG gives me the impression that as = long as the sets of XML representations generated by the two types are = the same, they are equivalent. >>=20 >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Feb 19 19:29:23 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E2333A0FEF; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 19:29:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.26.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <161379176252.30155.8759584602786108128@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 19:29:22 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:29:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Self Describing Data Object Tags Authors : Qin Wu Benoit Claise Peng Liu Zongpeng Du Mohamed Boucadair Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-01.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2021-02-19 Abstract: This document defines a method to tag data objects associated with operation and management data in YANG Modules. This YANG data object tagging method can be used to classify data objects from different YANG modules and identify characteristics data. It also can provide input, instruction, indication to selection filter and filter queries of operational state on a server during a "pub/sub" service for YANG datastore updates. When the state of all subscriptions of a particular Subscriber to be fetched is huge, the amount of data to be streamed out to the destination can be greatly reduced and only targeted to the characteristics data. These data object tags may be registered as well as assigned during the module definition; assigned by implementations; or dynamically defined and set by users. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Feb 19 19:31:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962593A1026 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 19:31:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RTs4bArmD0Rh for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 19:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64AEE3A1025 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 19:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml708-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.207]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DjDMb2ZWdz67p2M for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:24:43 +0800 (CST) Received: from fraeml708-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.36) by fraeml708-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 04:31:48 +0100 Received: from DGGEML424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.41) by fraeml708-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.2106.2 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 04:31:48 +0100 Received: from DGGEML531-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.184]) by dggeml424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0509.000; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:31:41 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-01.txt Thread-Index: AdcHOK41iG6BDYAkRHu5zgqmOG9Btg== Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:31:41 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.123.117] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:31:54 -0000 di0wMSBpcyBwb3N0ZWQsIHRoZSBkaWZmIGlzOg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvcmZjZGlm Zj91cmwyPWRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0bW9kLW5vZGUtdGFncy0wMQ0KdGhlIG1haW4gY2hhbmdlcyBp bmNsdWRlOg0KICAgbyAgTWVyZ2Ugc2VsZiBkZXNjcmliaW5nIGRhdGEgb2JqZWN0IHRhZyB1c2Ug Y2FzZSBzZWN0aW9uIGludG8NCiAgICAgIGludHJvZHVjdGlvbiBzZWN0aW9uIGFzIGEgc3Vic2Vj dGlvbjsNCiAgIG8gIEFkZCBvbmUgZ2xvc3Nhcnkgc2VjdGlvbjsNCiAgIG8gIENsYXJpZnkgdGhl IHJlbGF0aW9uIGJldHdlZW4gZGF0YSBvYmplY3QsIG9iamVjdCB0YWcsIHByb3BlcnR5DQogICAg ICB0YWcsIG1ldHJpYyB0YWcgaW4gU2VsZiBEZXNjcmliaW5nIERhdGEgT2JqZWN0IFRhZ3MgVXNl IENhc2Ugc2VjdGlvbjsNCiAgIG8gIEFkZCB1cGRhdGUgdG8gUkZDODQwNyBpbiB0aGUgZnJvbnQg cGFnZS4NCg0KLVFpbiAob24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIGF1dGhvcnMpDQotLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0tLS0N CreivP7IyzogbmV0bW9kIFttYWlsdG86bmV0bW9kLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddILT6se0gaW50 ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAyMcTqMtTCMjDI1SAxMToyOQ0KytW8 /sjLOiBpLWQtYW5ub3VuY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCrOty806IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0K1vfM4jog W25ldG1vZF0gSS1EIEFjdGlvbjogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRtb2Qtbm9kZS10YWdzLTAxLnR4dA0K DQoNCkEgTmV3IEludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0IGlzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBvbi1saW5lIElu dGVybmV0LURyYWZ0cyBkaXJlY3Rvcmllcy4NClRoaXMgZHJhZnQgaXMgYSB3b3JrIGl0ZW0gb2Yg dGhlIE5ldHdvcmsgTW9kZWxpbmcgV0cgb2YgdGhlIElFVEYuDQoNCiAgICAgICAgVGl0bGUgICAg ICAgICAgIDogU2VsZiBEZXNjcmliaW5nIERhdGEgT2JqZWN0IFRhZ3MNCiAgICAgICAgQXV0aG9y cyAgICAgICAgIDogUWluIFd1DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEJlbm9pdCBDbGFp c2UNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgUGVuZyBMaXUNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgWm9uZ3BlbmcgRHUNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgTW9oYW1lZCBC b3VjYWRhaXINCglGaWxlbmFtZSAgICAgICAgOiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldG1vZC1ub2RlLXRhZ3Mt MDEudHh0DQoJUGFnZXMgICAgICAgICAgIDogMjYNCglEYXRlICAgICAgICAgICAgOiAyMDIxLTAy LTE5DQoNCkFic3RyYWN0Og0KICAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBkZWZpbmVzIGEgbWV0aG9kIHRvIHRh ZyBkYXRhIG9iamVjdHMgYXNzb2NpYXRlZCB3aXRoDQogICBvcGVyYXRpb24gYW5kIG1hbmFnZW1l bnQgZGF0YSBpbiBZQU5HIE1vZHVsZXMuICBUaGlzIFlBTkcgZGF0YSBvYmplY3QNCiAgIHRhZ2dp bmcgbWV0aG9kIGNhbiBiZSB1c2VkIHRvIGNsYXNzaWZ5IGRhdGEgb2JqZWN0cyBmcm9tIGRpZmZl cmVudA0KICAgWUFORyBtb2R1bGVzIGFuZCBpZGVudGlmeSBjaGFyYWN0ZXJpc3RpY3MgZGF0YS4g IEl0IGFsc28gY2FuIHByb3ZpZGUNCiAgIGlucHV0LCBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbiwgaW5kaWNhdGlvbiB0 byBzZWxlY3Rpb24gZmlsdGVyIGFuZCBmaWx0ZXIgcXVlcmllcw0KICAgb2Ygb3BlcmF0aW9uYWwg c3RhdGUgb24gYSBzZXJ2ZXIgZHVyaW5nIGEgInB1Yi9zdWIiIHNlcnZpY2UgZm9yIFlBTkcNCiAg IGRhdGFzdG9yZSB1cGRhdGVzLiAgV2hlbiB0aGUgc3RhdGUgb2YgYWxsIHN1YnNjcmlwdGlvbnMg b2YgYQ0KICAgcGFydGljdWxhciBTdWJzY3JpYmVyIHRvIGJlIGZldGNoZWQgaXMgaHVnZSwgdGhl IGFtb3VudCBvZiBkYXRhIHRvIGJlDQogICBzdHJlYW1lZCBvdXQgdG8gdGhlIGRlc3RpbmF0aW9u IGNhbiBiZSBncmVhdGx5IHJlZHVjZWQgYW5kIG9ubHkNCiAgIHRhcmdldGVkIHRvIHRoZSBjaGFy YWN0ZXJpc3RpY3MgZGF0YS4gIFRoZXNlIGRhdGEgb2JqZWN0IHRhZ3MgbWF5IGJlDQogICByZWdp c3RlcmVkIGFzIHdlbGwgYXMgYXNzaWduZWQgZHVyaW5nIHRoZSBtb2R1bGUgZGVmaW5pdGlvbjsg YXNzaWduZWQNCiAgIGJ5IGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uczsgb3IgZHluYW1pY2FsbHkgZGVmaW5lZCBh bmQgc2V0IGJ5IHVzZXJzLg0KDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIGRhdGF0cmFja2VyIHN0YXR1cyBwYWdlIGZv ciB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGlzOg0KaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQt aWV0Zi1uZXRtb2Qtbm9kZS10YWdzLw0KDQpUaGVyZSBhcmUgYWxzbyBodG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9u cyBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQ6DQpodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1u ZXRtb2Qtbm9kZS10YWdzLTAxDQpodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9odG1s L2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0bW9kLW5vZGUtdGFncy0wMQ0KDQpBIGRpZmYgZnJvbSB0aGUgcHJldmlv dXMgdmVyc2lvbiBpcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQ6DQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9yZmNkaWZm P3VybDI9ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRtb2Qtbm9kZS10YWdzLTAxDQoNCg0KUGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhh dCBpdCBtYXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVzIGZyb20gdGhlIHRpbWUgb2Ygc3VibWlz c2lvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0 IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KDQpJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdHMgYXJlIGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIGJ5 IGFub255bW91cyBGVFAgYXQ6DQpmdHA6Ly9mdHAuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzLw0K DQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpuZXRt b2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQo= From nobody Fri Feb 19 22:20:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18883A124D; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 22:20:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.26.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <161380205579.21600.15231104946707688149@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 22:20:55 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-eca-policy-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 06:20:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data model for ECA Policy Management Authors : Qin Wu Igor Bryskin Henk Birkholz Xufeng Liu Benoit Claise Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-eca-policy-01.txt Pages : 54 Date : 2021-02-19 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model for Event Condition Action (ECA) policy management. The ECA policy YANG module provides the ability to delegate some network management functions to the server (e.g., a NETCONF or RESTCONF server) which can take simple and instant action when a trigger condition on the managed objects is met. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-eca-policy/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-eca-policy-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-eca-policy-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-eca-policy-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Feb 19 22:38:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E82C3A127C for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 22:38:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4M3uA_iz3Uni for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 22:38:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDADF3A127A for ; 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charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-eca-policy-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 06:38:37 -0000 di0wMSBpcyBwb3N0ZWQsIA0KaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvaHRtbC9k cmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldG1vZC1lY2EtcG9saWN5LTAxDQpUaGUgbWFpbiBjaGFuZ2VzIGluY2x1ZGU6 DQoxLiBDbGFyaWZ5IHRoZSByZWxhdGlvbnNoaXAgYmV0d2VlbiBjZW50cmFsaXplZCBuZXR3b3Jr IG1hbmFnZW1lbnQgYW5kIG5ldHdvcmsgZnVuY3Rpb24gZGVsZWdhdGlvbjsNCjIuIEFkZCBjbGFy aWZpY2F0aW9uIHRleHQgb24gdGhlIEVDQSBkZWZpbml0aW9uOw0KQSBmZXcgb3BlbiBpc3N1ZXMg YXJlIHN0aWxsIG9wZW4sIG9uZSBzZWN0aW9uIGlzIGNyZWF0ZWQgdG8gdHJhY2sgdGhlbS4NCg0K LVFpbiAob24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIGF1dGhvcnMpDQotLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0tLS0NCreivP7Iyzog bmV0bW9kIFttYWlsdG86bmV0bW9kLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddILT6se0gaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJh ZnRzQGlldGYub3JnDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAyMcTqMtTCMjDI1SAxNDoyMQ0KytW8/sjLOiBpLWQt YW5ub3VuY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCrOty806IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0K1vfM4jogW25ldG1vZF0g SS1EIEFjdGlvbjogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRtb2QtZWNhLXBvbGljeS0wMS50eHQNCg0KDQpBIE5l dyBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBpcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgZnJvbSB0aGUgb24tbGluZSBJbnRlcm5ldC1E cmFmdHMgZGlyZWN0b3JpZXMuDQpUaGlzIGRyYWZ0IGlzIGEgd29yayBpdGVtIG9mIHRoZSBOZXR3 b3JrIE1vZGVsaW5nIFdHIG9mIHRoZSBJRVRGLg0KDQogICAgICAgIFRpdGxlICAgICAgICAgICA6 IEEgWUFORyBEYXRhIG1vZGVsIGZvciBFQ0EgUG9saWN5IE1hbmFnZW1lbnQNCiAgICAgICAgQXV0 aG9ycyAgICAgICAgIDogUWluIFd1DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIElnb3IgQnJ5 c2tpbg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBIZW5rIEJpcmtob2x6DQogICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFh1ZmVuZyBMaXUNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgQmVu b2l0IENsYWlzZQ0KCUZpbGVuYW1lICAgICAgICA6IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0bW9kLWVjYS1wb2xp Y3ktMDEudHh0DQoJUGFnZXMgICAgICAgICAgIDogNTQNCglEYXRlICAgICAgICAgICAgOiAyMDIx LTAyLTE5DQoNCkFic3RyYWN0Og0KICAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBkZWZpbmVzIGEgWUFORyBkYXRh IG1vZGVsIGZvciBFdmVudCBDb25kaXRpb24gQWN0aW9uDQogICAoRUNBKSBwb2xpY3kgbWFuYWdl bWVudC4gIFRoZSBFQ0EgcG9saWN5IFlBTkcgbW9kdWxlIHByb3ZpZGVzIHRoZQ0KICAgYWJpbGl0 eSB0byBkZWxlZ2F0ZSBzb21lIG5ldHdvcmsgbWFuYWdlbWVudCBmdW5jdGlvbnMgdG8gdGhlIHNl cnZlcg0KICAgKGUuZy4sIGEgTkVUQ09ORiBvciBSRVNUQ09ORiBzZXJ2ZXIpIHdoaWNoIGNhbiB0 YWtlIHNpbXBsZSBhbmQNCiAgIGluc3RhbnQgYWN0aW9uIHdoZW4gYSB0cmlnZ2VyIGNvbmRpdGlv biBvbiB0aGUgbWFuYWdlZCBvYmplY3RzIGlzDQogICBtZXQuDQoNCg0KVGhlIElFVEYgZGF0YXRy YWNrZXIgc3RhdHVzIHBhZ2UgZm9yIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgaXM6DQpodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2Vy LmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldG1vZC1lY2EtcG9saWN5Lw0KDQpUaGVyZSBhcmUg YWxzbyBodG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9ucyBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQ6DQpodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYu b3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRtb2QtZWNhLXBvbGljeS0wMQ0KaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJh Y2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldG1vZC1lY2EtcG9saWN5LTAxDQoN CkEgZGlmZiBmcm9tIHRoZSBwcmV2aW91cyB2ZXJzaW9uIGlzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdDoNCmh0dHBz Oi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3JmY2RpZmY/dXJsMj1kcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldG1vZC1lY2EtcG9saWN5 LTAxDQoNCg0KUGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhhdCBpdCBtYXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVz IGZyb20gdGhlIHRpbWUgb2Ygc3VibWlzc2lvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBh bmQgZGlmZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KDQpJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFm dHMgYXJlIGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIGJ5IGFub255bW91cyBGVFAgYXQ6DQpmdHA6Ly9mdHAuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzLw0KDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQo= From nobody Sun Feb 21 09:05:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E3A3A0CA0; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:05:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.26.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <161392714444.31855.6753010197791423388@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:05:44 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-02.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 17:05:45 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Semantic Versioning Authors : Benoit Claise Joe Clarke Reshad Rahman Robert Wilton Balazs Lengyel Jason Sterne Kevin D'Souza Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-02.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2021-02-21 Abstract: This document specifies a scheme and guidelines for applying a modified set of semantic versioning rules to revisions of YANG modules. Additionally, this document defines a revision-label for this modified semver scheme. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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OK. The CBOR document indeed says: 6.1. The unsigned integer Types Leafs of type uint8, uint16, uint32 and uint64 MUST be encoded using a CBOR unsigned integer data item (major type 0). 6.2. The integer Types Leafs of type int8, int16, int32 and int64 MUST be encoded using either CBOR unsigned integer (major type 0) or CBOR negative integer (major type 1), depending on the actual value. This means the type 'int8 { range 0..10; }' leads to the same encodings as the type 'uint8 { range 0..10; }'. > > For the XML and JSON encodings, all definitions lead to the > > same on-the-wire representation, hence the difference is more an > > implementation detail. I have no clue what the gnmi people do. The > > more diverse encodings we add, the more complex things get. > > Well, if the equivalence expectation that I was trying to describe actually is ingrained, then whoever designs an encoding (COMI for its URI encoding included) needs to respect it. That would be important to know. > Exactly. I think we never defined this. And of course, this can get even more fun if you consider string based encodings. The type type string { pattern "1|2|3|4"; } yields the same _XML encoded_ value space as type int32 { range "1..4"; } but as far as I recall the JSON/CBOR encodings will treat these two differently. So yes, ideally the YANG language would have clear rules what YANG's type equivalences are. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Feb 22 01:49:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4C33A11F3 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 01:49:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_NAKED_TO_NUMERO=1.999, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=Qcddc7bj; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=tca3rEId Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id we0MrC3zSI_g for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 01:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96BAD3A11F0 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 01:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19345C0081; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 04:49:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 22 Feb 2021 04:49:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh= HW0wewfENFKkB8K21rbPliGyDqmcv01NUSYgeD0I754=; b=Qcddc7bjzmRSDsi0 1tV79g3Sy5OeycGX8Vy3dC+Jz74VhURNp9KLx0JBscU5uSqkv0XsKbhtwVwcJ6Hv TzDG2pODJe3Vi4YO6+veJwjA15B04F28wbHDR6po8LZvIdqxxElSaOR9O/jM4jcS eMJj3VdcZj7Ayzqi+quc7pVBj/1T6kiCKQqGi76gtbm4NU9P4DR2ObeSqBbzC/uz MimM9OKosdE+x5H382eli/Dd7BHTkAeVuvdP7GUYR2KVADN0+R3lZaI+LKoIDdrF IqmGbdgcCk+niLyHLFbSvk6yB9GmwnqvNTN3rU2AfKotXNpRWfmQlQt3Pg1vts+v JCLxKg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=HW0wewfENFKkB8K21rbPliGyDqmcv01NUSYgeD0I7 54=; b=tca3rEId8j/TZG0tEJPFMxHTobHexIW2GtkZiK97ilag+TpX6seEBOn7Y /+um7BXtuF0/IUduXk3ucGyUGfX/Sq7qjqvOZZqpcR0ph+iK6SCHTC+fhUNu/tPD dJV9LP13sbRMy0EUeeJrmZJ1Z8TnVBNdwdeVa95hG/0UIeK+snyzLamK6YTGTXoU 4to9l7ulGCNVMrQn+W2Ky/RUHqYD7GSVfOzXKXar1r6P2N0VNWdM1hFB1OKiGfWD uij68jjFzR7syvtgwNsEKlHnJd41P3emis2buE2eRrFnsdXgbRDRa2Ca35tNbPNH ierjEd2pTpMPiRuvvECCOhlSO9ZAQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrkeefgddtkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffkvffuhfgjfhfogggtgfesthejre dtredtvdenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhtihhnuceujhpnrhhklhhunhguuceomhgsjhdoihgv thhfseegieeikedrshgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeffuddtheekgeehteettdehje elieevjeeiheegveffheeguddvffelvdejkefgieenucffohhmrghinhepjhgrtghosghs qdhunhhivhgvrhhsihhthidruggvpdhivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepudehkedrudejge drgedrvdduheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhr ohhmpehmsghjodhivghtfhesgeeiieekrdhsvg X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (unknown [158.174.4.215]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D98DC24005C; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 04:49:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:49:38 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: cabo@tzi.org, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20210219181858.arafmdtraq4ydir2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 09:49:45 -0000 Hi, Section 11 of RFC 7950 says: o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typedef, but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the syntax would change. If we're just considering XML, then the syntax or encoding wouldn't change if we went from type int64 { range "2..4"; } to type string { pattern "2|3|4"; } or type enumeration { enum 2; enum 3; enum 4; } or type union { type uint8 { range "2"; } type string { pattern "3"; } type enumeration { enum 4; } } But I don't think this is reasonable, and not the intention. I think that changing the base built-in type always should be considered non-backwards compatible (which the quoted text above seems to imply). /martin Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:32:34PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > > > > On 2021-02-19, at 19:18, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > > > I think the CBOR encoding picks different tags depending on the > > > signedness of the base type and this is why things are not that simple > > > anymore. > > > > (This is not the CBOR encoding, but the COMI encoding of keys in URIs.) > > OK. The CBOR document indeed says: > > 6.1. The unsigned integer Types > > Leafs of type uint8, uint16, uint32 and uint64 MUST be encoded using > a CBOR unsigned integer data item (major type 0). > > 6.2. The integer Types > > Leafs of type int8, int16, int32 and int64 MUST be encoded using > either CBOR unsigned integer (major type 0) or CBOR negative integer > (major type 1), depending on the actual value. > > This means the type 'int8 { range 0..10; }' leads to the same > encodings as the type 'uint8 { range 0..10; }'. > > > > For the XML and JSON encodings, all definitions lead to the > > > same on-the-wire representation, hence the difference is more an > > > implementation detail. I have no clue what the gnmi people do. The > > > more diverse encodings we add, the more complex things get. > > > > Well, if the equivalence expectation that I was trying to describe actually is ingrained, then whoever designs an encoding (COMI for its URI encoding included) needs to respect it. That would be important to know. > > > > Exactly. I think we never defined this. And of course, this can get > even more fun if you consider string based encodings. The type > > type string { pattern "1|2|3|4"; } > > yields the same _XML encoded_ value space as > > type int32 { range "1..4"; } > > but as far as I recall the JSON/CBOR encodings will treat these two > differently. So yes, ideally the YANG language would have clear rules > what YANG's type equivalences are. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Feb 22 02:00:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5107E3A1224 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:00:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cWpEwyFtwcMG for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:00:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B5C63A1222 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:00:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8] (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 30D6413FFA6; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:00:37 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1613988037; bh=c35KDUDrpTCvF0U/bDuPjThg2FJowiQyb+CWDV+7NxU=; h=To:From:Date; b=asBbW2fOsI6U/EN0tLsD4hpG0NPmyLNQhFXgKEwxyU9MUAzbaU4J3Yu/WnBetDLUS KjjyAmuzoI/yn2Bh1AiXfn3OjvbJjtmTdRXyV4UTa/IQ+dfJd5BOXrqT8NFc/Mvcm7 ZmnQMnMa7+lXlMBEOyGdNc9sDeqzZY0yO5t0tLqo= To: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=c3=b6rklund?= , j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: netmod@ietf.org References: <20210219181858.arafmdtraq4ydir2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> From: Ladislav Lhotka Organization: CZ.NIC Message-ID: <552f005f-d636-702b-a82f-efd81abd5f45@nic.cz> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:00:36 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:00:43 -0000 On 22. 02. 21 10:49, Martin Björklund wrote: > Hi, > > Section 11 of RFC 7950 says: > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typedef, > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the syntax > would change. > > If we're just considering XML, then the syntax or encoding wouldn't > change if we went from > > type int64 { range "2..4"; } > > to > > type string { pattern "2|3|4"; } > > or > > type enumeration { > enum 2; > enum 3; > enum 4; > } > > or > > type union { > type uint8 { range "2"; } > type string { pattern "3"; } > type enumeration { enum 4; } > } > > > But I don't think this is reasonable, and not the intention. I think > that changing the base built-in type always should be considered > non-backwards compatible (which the quoted text above seems to imply). Agreed. Another problem related to sec. 11 is that it permits to update a module so that the range specification is extended, which may then expose the incompatibility of e.g. uint8 and int8. But I thought that Jürgen's question was directed to the definition of backward compatibility in the semver context. Lada > > > /martin > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:32:34PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 2021-02-19, at 19:18, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>>> >>>> I think the CBOR encoding picks different tags depending on the >>>> signedness of the base type and this is why things are not that simple >>>> anymore. >>> >>> (This is not the CBOR encoding, but the COMI encoding of keys in URIs.) >> >> OK. The CBOR document indeed says: >> >> 6.1. The unsigned integer Types >> >> Leafs of type uint8, uint16, uint32 and uint64 MUST be encoded using >> a CBOR unsigned integer data item (major type 0). >> >> 6.2. The integer Types >> >> Leafs of type int8, int16, int32 and int64 MUST be encoded using >> either CBOR unsigned integer (major type 0) or CBOR negative integer >> (major type 1), depending on the actual value. >> >> This means the type 'int8 { range 0..10; }' leads to the same >> encodings as the type 'uint8 { range 0..10; }'. >> >>>> For the XML and JSON encodings, all definitions lead to the >>>> same on-the-wire representation, hence the difference is more an >>>> implementation detail. I have no clue what the gnmi people do. The >>>> more diverse encodings we add, the more complex things get. >>> >>> Well, if the equivalence expectation that I was trying to describe actually is ingrained, then whoever designs an encoding (COMI for its URI encoding included) needs to respect it. That would be important to know. >>> >> >> Exactly. I think we never defined this. And of course, this can get >> even more fun if you consider string based encodings. The type >> >> type string { pattern "1|2|3|4"; } >> >> yields the same _XML encoded_ value space as >> >> type int32 { range "1..4"; } >> >> but as far as I recall the JSON/CBOR encodings will treat these two >> differently. So yes, ideally the YANG language would have clear rules >> what YANG's type equivalences are. >> >> /js >> >> -- >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Feb 22 02:09:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D41EC3A1239 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:09:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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} is indeed different from uint8 { range "1..10"; } and int32 { range "1..10"; } The use of the word "syntax" in the text you quote may be a left-over from SMIv2 times, it does not really seem to be aligned with how the term 'syntax' is used elsewhere in RFC 7950. Anyway, if the agreement back then was that you can't change base types (regardless of type restrictions), it would have been nice if the text would say this more clearly. /js On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 10:49:38AM +0100, Martin Björklund wrote: > Hi, > > Section 11 of RFC 7950 says: > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typedef, > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the syntax > would change. > > If we're just considering XML, then the syntax or encoding wouldn't > change if we went from > > type int64 { range "2..4"; } > > to > > type string { pattern "2|3|4"; } > > or > > type enumeration { > enum 2; > enum 3; > enum 4; > } > > or > > type union { > type uint8 { range "2"; } > type string { pattern "3"; } > type enumeration { enum 4; } > } > > > But I don't think this is reasonable, and not the intention. I think > that changing the base built-in type always should be considered > non-backwards compatible (which the quoted text above seems to imply). > > > /martin > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:32:34PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 2021-02-19, at 19:18, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > > > > > I think the CBOR encoding picks different tags depending on the > > > > signedness of the base type and this is why things are not that simple > > > > anymore. > > > > > > (This is not the CBOR encoding, but the COMI encoding of keys in URIs.) > > > > OK. The CBOR document indeed says: > > > > 6.1. The unsigned integer Types > > > > Leafs of type uint8, uint16, uint32 and uint64 MUST be encoded using > > a CBOR unsigned integer data item (major type 0). > > > > 6.2. The integer Types > > > > Leafs of type int8, int16, int32 and int64 MUST be encoded using > > either CBOR unsigned integer (major type 0) or CBOR negative integer > > (major type 1), depending on the actual value. > > > > This means the type 'int8 { range 0..10; }' leads to the same > > encodings as the type 'uint8 { range 0..10; }'. > > > > > > For the XML and JSON encodings, all definitions lead to the > > > > same on-the-wire representation, hence the difference is more an > > > > implementation detail. I have no clue what the gnmi people do. The > > > > more diverse encodings we add, the more complex things get. > > > > > > Well, if the equivalence expectation that I was trying to describe actually is ingrained, then whoever designs an encoding (COMI for its URI encoding included) needs to respect it. That would be important to know. > > > > > > > Exactly. I think we never defined this. And of course, this can get > > even more fun if you consider string based encodings. The type > > > > type string { pattern "1|2|3|4"; } > > > > yields the same _XML encoded_ value space as > > > > type int32 { range "1..4"; } > > > > but as far as I recall the JSON/CBOR encodings will treat these two > > differently. So yes, ideally the YANG language would have clear rules > > what YANG's type equivalences are. > > > > /js > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Feb 22 02:11:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873203A126C for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:11:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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No, the background is not semver here, it is "can we harmonize N different existing definition of "0..100" to one. And it seems the answer is "no", at least not in a backwards compatible way if people picked different base types. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Feb 22 02:13:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8F533A1245 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:13:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_NAKED_TO_NUMERO=1.999, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=VJGzAeje; 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Mon, 22 Feb 2021 05:13:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:13:43 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: cabo@tzi.org, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:13:52 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Thanks Martin, > = > so you are saying that > = > int8 { range "1..10"; } > = > is indeed different from > = > uint8 { range "1..10"; } > = > and > = > int32 { range "1..10"; } Yes. > The use of the word "syntax" in the text you quote may be a left-over= > from SMIv2 times [That's what I thought as well, but I couldn't find it in the SMIv2 RFCs. Perhaps it was from some sming text?] > , it does not really seem to be aligned with how the > term 'syntax' is used elsewhere in RFC 7950. Anyway, if the agreement= > back then was that you can't change base types (regardless of type > restrictions), it would have been nice if the text would say this mor= e > clearly. Agreed. /martin > = > /js > = > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 10:49:38AM +0100, Martin Bj=F6rklund wrote: > > Hi, > > = > > Section 11 of RFC 7950 says: > > = > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statem= ent > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. Fo= r > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typ= edef, > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the sy= ntax > > would change. > > = > > If we're just considering XML, then the syntax or encoding wouldn't= > > change if we went from > > = > > type int64 { range "2..4"; } > > = > > to > > = > > type string { pattern "2|3|4"; } > > = > > or > > = > > type enumeration { > > enum 2; > > enum 3; > > enum 4; > > } > > = > > or > > = > > type union { > > type uint8 { range "2"; } > > type string { pattern "3"; } > > type enumeration { enum 4; } > > } > > = > > = > > But I don't think this is reasonable, and not the intention. I thi= nk > > that changing the base built-in type always should be considered > > non-backwards compatible (which the quoted text above seems to impl= y). > > = > > = > > /martin > > = > > = > > = > > = > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:= > > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:32:34PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > = > > > > = > > > > > On 2021-02-19, at 19:18, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > > = > > > > > I think the CBOR encoding picks different tags depending on t= he > > > > > signedness of the base type and this is why things are not th= at simple > > > > > anymore. > > > > = > > > > (This is not the CBOR encoding, but the COMI encoding of keys i= n URIs.) > > > = > > > OK. The CBOR document indeed says: > > > = > > > 6.1. The unsigned integer Types > > > = > > > Leafs of type uint8, uint16, uint32 and uint64 MUST be encoded= using > > > a CBOR unsigned integer data item (major type 0). > > > = > > > 6.2. The integer Types > > > = > > > Leafs of type int8, int16, int32 and int64 MUST be encoded usi= ng > > > either CBOR unsigned integer (major type 0) or CBOR negative i= nteger > > > (major type 1), depending on the actual value. > > > = > > > This means the type 'int8 { range 0..10; }' leads to the same > > > encodings as the type 'uint8 { range 0..10; }'. > > > = > > > > > For the XML and JSON encodings, all definitions lead to the > > > > > same on-the-wire representation, hence the difference is more= an > > > > > implementation detail. I have no clue what the gnmi people do= . The > > > > > more diverse encodings we add, the more complex things get. > > > > = > > > > Well, if the equivalence expectation that I was trying to descr= ibe actually is ingrained, then whoever designs an encoding (COMI for i= ts URI encoding included) needs to respect it. That would be important= to know. > > > > = > > > = > > > Exactly. I think we never defined this. And of course, this can g= et > > > even more fun if you consider string based encodings. The type > > > = > > > type string { pattern "1|2|3|4"; } > > > = > > > yields the same _XML encoded_ value space as > > > = > > > type int32 { range "1..4"; } > > > = > > > but as far as I recall the JSON/CBOR encodings will treat these t= wo > > > differently. So yes, ideally the YANG language would have clear r= ules > > > what YANG's type equivalences are. > > > = > > > /js > > > = > > > -- = > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Ge= rmany > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > = > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > = > -- = > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | German= y > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Feb 22 02:22:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 691BB3A1266 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:22:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z29I7RHjs36e for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B60B3A1611 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:21:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8] (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 77CA3140944; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:21:54 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1613989314; bh=teMHZ1coBBOoYKNKQ4cB5pPbCrvrJ3ONDNtnZbYTBkE=; h=To:From:Date; b=CSq7ovxRUqEnfVl954tX0rApJDCeem4Uci5nPyyrG25W+e1vZUmDnUtJI1xRsnUfG 14PH4DNjnowSMl8+evhIkViXEkYbyIzsRhetjzXiKIQImO/l65vVqE7MRJyRQRKzY0 YzG0poqSpH79mram73phuMGrB9kuETHjWOmZ9edE= To: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=c3=b6rklund?= , netmod@ietf.org References: <20210219181858.arafmdtraq4ydir2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <552f005f-d636-702b-a82f-efd81abd5f45@nic.cz> <20210222101126.5v2jjvpzbzfhjwn2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Ladislav Lhotka Organization: CZ.NIC Message-ID: <649579b7-8974-694e-4572-753384a93879@nic.cz> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:21:54 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210222101126.5v2jjvpzbzfhjwn2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:22:56 -0000 On 22. 02. 21 11:11, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 11:00:36AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > >> But I thought that Jürgen's question was directed to the definition of >> backward compatibility in the semver context. > > No, the background is not semver here, it is "can we harmonize N > different existing definition of "0..100" to one. And it seems the > answer is "no", at least not in a backwards compatible way if people > picked different base types. +1 Lada > > /js > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Feb 22 02:47:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3ED3A12DD for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:47:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kdfhv7tQqwuI for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:47:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BD2D3A12D9 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:47:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dkf553D7zz10FD; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:47:05 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:47:05 +0100 Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635683624.983693-625258076587a4c1249051cdf5863f56 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <04B94A94-236A-44CE-B47C-BE5F36FFF278@tzi.org> References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> To: =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:47:12 -0000 > On 2021-02-22, at 11:13, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund = wrote: >=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> Thanks Martin, >>=20 >> so you are saying that >>=20 >> int8 { range "1..10"; } >>=20 >> is indeed different from >>=20 >> uint8 { range "1..10"; } >>=20 >> and >>=20 >> int32 { range "1..10"; } >=20 > Yes. Oh. People often choose uint8 etc. with an intention to set a range. I don=E2=80=99t think they know that they are setting themselves up for = NBC if that range needs to be extended later. So I would have expected that there is a common base type these are all = derived from. RFC 7950 does not use "base type" as an absolute term; it only can be = used relative to =E2=80=9Cderived type=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t know which of the built-in types are =E2=80=9Cabsolute = base types=E2=80=9D in the sense you would need it to define the rule. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Feb 22 02:50:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16973A12E9 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:50:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BMaQkHNbafe0 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A25D3A12F3 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dkf9F3B7fzytD; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:50:41 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:50:41 +0100 Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635683840.976777-032ed94d91de4285a072d3f509d33cdb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9DB3BC5D-1935-4C3D-8132-E8E72D2D36ED@tzi.org> References: <20210219165549.be7l2rbhdqfevhfl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <4A8F7739-71AA-4CE0-B9D1-9F24C60B037D@tzi.org> <20210219181858.arafmdtraq4ydir2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:50:46 -0000 On 2021-02-22, at 10:24, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > Exactly. I think we never defined this. And of course, this can get > even more fun if you consider string based encodings. The type >=20 > type string { pattern "1|2|3|4"; } >=20 > yields the same _XML encoded_ value space as >=20 > type int32 { range "1..4"; } >=20 > but as far as I recall the JSON/CBOR encodings will treat these two > differently. We certainly called this out as expected collateral damage when we = developed YANG-CBOR. So my =E2=80=9Cdeductive rule of type equivalence=E2=80=9D is not = faithfully respected by YANG-CBOR. We did see a need to bow to it for = unions, though. > So yes, ideally the YANG language would have clear rules > what YANG's type equivalences are. For a value of =E2=80=9Cideal=E2=80=9D that is closer to = =E2=80=9Cfundamentally necessary=E2=80=9D :-) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Feb 22 05:20:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 038003A094E for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 05:20:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=mBc4EIRn; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=jJrTIyoG Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ARQ-CTYISohI for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BN6PR11MB1667.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3ecc91c5-d61c-46a2-5a85-08d8d734ac1a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Feb 2021 13:20:49.6985 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: RvEtV+XfgvSF6rgowkm5Mgr7bEFKXku99gtlqa9cT3jpla35v1oe2tZIbelHCJAc0a2+wYnHprySemZMhqG7wA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR11MB1970 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.14, xch-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-02.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 13:20:55 -0000 This new version:=0A= =0A= * adds text on how semver gaps are handled (issue #61)=0A= * makes semver as a revision-label mandatory for IETF modules (issue #45)= =0A= * adds text for how IANA modules are to be handled with respect to=0A= adding semver revision-labels (issue #59).=0A= =0A= Joe=0A= =0A= On 2/21/21 12:06, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:=0A= > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories.=0A= > This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.=0A= >=0A= > Title : YANG Semantic Versioning=0A= > Authors : Benoit Claise=0A= > Joe Clarke=0A= > Reshad Rahman=0A= > Robert Wilton=0A= > Balazs Lengyel=0A= > Jason Sterne=0A= > Kevin D'Souza=0A= > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-02.txt=0A= > Pages : 22=0A= > Date : 2021-02-21=0A= >=0A= > Abstract:=0A= > This document specifies a scheme and guidelines for applying a=0A= > modified set of semantic versioning rules to revisions of YANG=0A= > modules. Additionally, this document defines a revision-label for=0A= > this modified semver scheme.=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:=0A= > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver/=0A= >=0A= > There are also htmlized versions available at:=0A= > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-02=0A= > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-02=0A= >=0A= > A diff from the previous version is available at:=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-02=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion=0A= > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.=0A= >=0A= > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:=0A= > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > _______________________________________________=0A= > netmod mailing list=0A= > netmod@ietf.org=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= >=0A= =0A= From nobody Mon Feb 22 05:53:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC4273A046B for ; 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} > >> > >> is indeed different from > >> > >> uint8 { range "1..10"; } > >> > >> and > >> > >> int32 { range "1..10"; } > > > > Yes. > > Oh. People often choose uint8 etc. with an intention to set a range. > I don’t think they know that they are setting themselves up for NBC if that range needs to be extended later. > So I would have expected that there is a common base type these are all derived from. > > RFC 7950 does not use "base type" as an absolute term; it only can be used relative to “derived typeâ€. > I don’t know which of the built-in types are “absolute base types†in the sense you would need it to define the rule. > Yes, "base type" is the wrong term, I think we talk about what RFC 7950 calls "build-in types". /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Feb 22 05:56:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B56983A07EB for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 05:56:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zT7L_SZT_Mvy for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 05:56:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96A013A07F7 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 05:56:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DkkH16ZktzySH; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:55:57 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210222135333.t4hfa3ekguwm33pm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:55:57 +0100 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635694957.466728-e165c63e09010d370aa54219c380a73b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <04B94A94-236A-44CE-B47C-BE5F36FFF278@tzi.org> <20210222135333.t4hfa3ekguwm33pm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 13:56:06 -0000 On 2021-02-22, at 14:53, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > Yes, "base type" is the wrong term, I think we talk about what RFC > 7950 calls "build-in types=E2=80=9D. OK, so rephrasing my question: Are all built-in types incompatible in the sense that moving from one to = the other is NBC, or are there clusters where moving within is = innocuous? 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Martin and Lada seem to say that all built-in types are incompatible. Lada made the point that range restrictions can be expanded and hence the differences of the size or the signedness of the underlying built-in type may eventually matter. Of course, if we go down this route, then encodings may take advantage of this. I have no clue what code generators do, if they indeed map type int32 { range "0..10"; } to a 32-bit signed number (to be prepared that someone may enlarge the range) or whether they go for more space efficient representations (and then versioning issues may arise or you live with implicit integer conversions if your programming language does them). I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible is the most robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say this, we could file an errata and propose clearer language. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Feb 22 06:20:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E6993A09BE for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:20:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id biX4T491a8Av for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:20:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B3443A09E1 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:20:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dkkpq0dk7zySZ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 15:20:03 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210222141715.vhzqka77yzhbkpst@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 15:20:02 +0100 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635696402.6347049-330bbe913a04cae9d4e2a5183849d382 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <450E683C-4F47-4314-BA63-DAC17AF60970@tzi.org> References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <04B94A94-236A-44CE-B47C-BE5F36FFF278@tzi.org> <20210222135333.t4hfa3ekguwm33pm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222141715.vhzqka77yzhbkpst@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:20:11 -0000 On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible is the most > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say this, we could > file an errata and propose clearer language. Right. And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as is, as this = clarification is necessary for its correct functioning. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Feb 22 06:28:16 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44EF23A0B3A; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:28:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8KaKakromamj; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:27:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96F193A0B91; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:27:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dkkzw5qVHzyWk; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 15:27:56 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 15:27:56 +0100 Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635696876.345477-c0bfc7c999841cb404045beae4649fdd Reply-To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <63510607-74A6-4218-BE87-10EC6F4ACB38@tzi.org> References: To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-core-comi-11 shepherd review X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:28:11 -0000 Please note an interesting discussion over at netmod. Archived-At: = = and up. It seems we a converging to a conclusion that means that the table at = the top of page 14 in draft-ietf-core-comi-11.txt [1] is not wrong (it = would make certain updates of a YANG module a non-backwards compatible = change in the way we build URIs from that). [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-comi-11#page-14 That said, maybe we still want to look at why uint and int coding are so = (unnecessarily?) different in their URL encodings. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On 2021-02-04, at 05:47, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > In my shepherd review of draft-ietf-core-comi-11, I have found a few = points that probably need some WG action before we can submit this draft = to IESG. > (I also have submitted a PR addressing some nits, = https://github.com/core-wg/comi/pull/1 .) >=20 > Specifically: >=20 > # Major >=20 > *** 5: This whole section is rather disappointing. What does this > really do except for pointing at RFC 7959? Is there any > recommendation in how to work around the race condition? The > recommendation to use indefinite length is not solving any problem > (does not work except in very fortuitous cases). >=20 > *** 6.2.2 How does the pagination work, then? > This SHOULD is not actionable. >=20 > *** 7: This creates confusion between 4.01 and 4.03 >=20 > # Minor >=20 > *** 2.2: While it is not clear whether there will be a SID 0, the text > seems to imply that this would be encoded in the empty string. > Should it rather specify a single "A=E2=80=9D? >=20 > *** Appendix A: Updated to reference RFC 8949 (see PR). > Do we need a new module version after this edit? >=20 >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Feb 22 06:36:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE8D33A07E2; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:36:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.26.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <161400460580.31325.7794742105356137654@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:36:45 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:36:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Common YANG Data Types Author : Juergen Schoenwaelder Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-05.txt Pages : 41 Date : 2021-02-22 Abstract: This document introduces a collection of common data types to be used with the YANG data modeling language. This document obsoletes RFC 6991. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Feb 22 14:31:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB8D3A210F; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:30:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.26.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <161403305386.4923.15434603243903547343@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:30:53 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 22:30:54 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Updated YANG Module Revision Handling Authors : Robert Wilton Reshad Rahman Balazs Lengyel Joe Clarke Jason Sterne Benoit Claise Kevin D'Souza Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02.txt Pages : 40 Date : 2021-02-22 Abstract: This document specifies a new YANG module update procedure that can document when non-backwards-compatible changes have occurred during the evolution of a YANG module. It extends the YANG import statement with an earliest revision filter to better represent inter-module dependencies. It provides help and guidelines for managing the lifecycle of YANG modules and individual schema nodes. It provides a mechanism, via the revision-label YANG extension, to specify a revision identifier for YANG modules. This document updates RFC 7950, RFC 8407 and RFC 8525. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Please take a look and let us know if any changes are needed. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/materials/agenda-110-netmod Presenters: Please provide your slides to the chairs no later than the Tuesday before our meeting. Authors of WG documents: If you are not on the agenda , please send a update on status and plans for the document no later than Thursday March 11. Thank you! Lou (Kent and Joel) Some session information: Friday March 12 --   UTC: 16:00-18:00 (Session III)    Session material: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/session/netmod    ICS: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/sessions/netmod.ics    MeetEcho: https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf110/?group=netmod    Jabber:         xmpp:netmod@jabber.ietf.org?join    CodiMD:        https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-110-netmod From nobody Wed Feb 24 03:52:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD203A147B for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 03:52:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5e194e5b-b37f-42c4-6fcc-08d8d8bab049 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Feb 2021 11:52:40.4561 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: enaszm7TgWGphNfVdC5xem3Ch8JTMapIijdb2awofXJSs3YbWBZA5VToP/CCBmdLeoI7eQ99LQf6UQ6zw5Lf6w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AS8PR07MB7400 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:52:46 -0000 From: netmod on behalf of Martin Bj=F6rklund =0A= Sent: 22 February 2021 10:13=0A= =0A= Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:=0A= > Thanks Martin,=0A= >=0A= > so you are saying that=0A= >=0A= > int8 { range "1..10"; }=0A= >=0A= > is indeed different from=0A= >=0A= > uint8 { range "1..10"; }=0A= >=0A= > and=0A= >=0A= > int32 { range "1..10"; }=0A= =0A= Yes.=0A= =0A= > The use of the word "syntax" in the text you quote may be a left-over=0A= > from SMIv2 times=0A= =0A= [That's what I thought as well, but I couldn't find it in the SMIv2=0A= RFCs. Perhaps it was from some sming text?]=0A= =0A= =0A= When asked about SNMP/SMI, I always say to start with RFC1155/1156/1157. E= ither of the first two gives, for me, a clear exposition of the meaning of = 'syntax' which I have always taken as read in YANG.=0A= =0A= Going back, well, ASN.1, ISO etc etc=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= > , it does not really seem to be aligned with how the=0A= > term 'syntax' is used elsewhere in RFC 7950. Anyway, if the agreement=0A= > back then was that you can't change base types (regardless of type=0A= > restrictions), it would have been nice if the text would say this more=0A= > clearly.=0A= =0A= Agreed.=0A= =0A= =0A= /martin=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= >=0A= > /js=0A= >=0A= > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 10:49:38AM +0100, Martin Bj=F6rklund wrote:=0A= > > Hi,=0A= > >=0A= > > Section 11 of RFC 7950 says:=0A= > >=0A= > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement= =0A= > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For=0A= > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typedef= ,=0A= > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the syntax= =0A= > > would change.=0A= > >=0A= > > If we're just considering XML, then the syntax or encoding wouldn't=0A= > > change if we went from=0A= > >=0A= > > type int64 { range "2..4"; }=0A= > >=0A= > > to=0A= > >=0A= > > type string { pattern "2|3|4"; }=0A= > >=0A= > > or=0A= > >=0A= > > type enumeration {=0A= > > enum 2;=0A= > > enum 3;=0A= > > enum 4;=0A= > > }=0A= > >=0A= > > or=0A= > >=0A= > > type union {=0A= > > type uint8 { range "2"; }=0A= > > type string { pattern "3"; }=0A= > > type enumeration { enum 4; }=0A= > > }=0A= > >=0A= > >=0A= > > But I don't think this is reasonable, and not the intention. I think= =0A= > > that changing the base built-in type always should be considered=0A= > > non-backwards compatible (which the quoted text above seems to imply).= =0A= > >=0A= > >=0A= > > /martin=0A= > >=0A= > >=0A= > >=0A= > >=0A= > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:=0A= > > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:32:34PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote:=0A= > > > >=0A= > > > >=0A= > > > > > On 2021-02-19, at 19:18, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:=0A= > > > > >=0A= > > > > > I think the CBOR encoding picks different tags depending on the= =0A= > > > > > signedness of the base type and this is why things are not that s= imple=0A= > > > > > anymore.=0A= > > > >=0A= > > > > (This is not the CBOR encoding, but the COMI encoding of keys in UR= Is.)=0A= > > >=0A= > > > OK. The CBOR document indeed says:=0A= > > >=0A= > > > 6.1. The unsigned integer Types=0A= > > >=0A= > > > Leafs of type uint8, uint16, uint32 and uint64 MUST be encoded usi= ng=0A= > > > a CBOR unsigned integer data item (major type 0).=0A= > > >=0A= > > > 6.2. The integer Types=0A= > > >=0A= > > > Leafs of type int8, int16, int32 and int64 MUST be encoded using= =0A= > > > either CBOR unsigned integer (major type 0) or CBOR negative integ= er=0A= > > > (major type 1), depending on the actual value.=0A= > > >=0A= > > > This means the type 'int8 { range 0..10; }' leads to the same=0A= > > > encodings as the type 'uint8 { range 0..10; }'.=0A= > > >=0A= > > > > > For the XML and JSON encodings, all definitions lead to the=0A= > > > > > same on-the-wire representation, hence the difference is more an= =0A= > > > > > implementation detail. I have no clue what the gnmi people do. Th= e=0A= > > > > > more diverse encodings we add, the more complex things get.=0A= > > > >=0A= > > > > Well, if the equivalence expectation that I was trying to describe = actually is ingrained, then whoever designs an encoding (COMI for its URI e= ncoding included) needs to respect it. That would be important to know.=0A= > > > >=0A= > > >=0A= > > > Exactly. I think we never defined this. And of course, this can get= =0A= > > > even more fun if you consider string based encodings. The type=0A= > > >=0A= > > > type string { pattern "1|2|3|4"; }=0A= > > >=0A= > > > yields the same _XML encoded_ value space as=0A= > > >=0A= > > > type int32 { range "1..4"; }=0A= > > >=0A= > > > but as far as I recall the JSON/CBOR encodings will treat these two= =0A= > > > differently. So yes, ideally the YANG language would have clear rules= =0A= > > > what YANG's type equivalences are.=0A= > > >=0A= > > > /js=0A= > > >=0A= > > > --=0A= > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | German= y=0A= > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 = =0A= > > >=0A= > > > _______________________________________________=0A= > > > netmod mailing list=0A= > > > netmod@ietf.org=0A= > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= >=0A= > --=0A= > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netmod mailing list=0A= netmod@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= From nobody Wed Feb 24 12:39:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B4A3A0FB6 for ; 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If people agree on a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. OLD o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typedef, but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the syntax would change. NEW o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement that does not change the semantics of the type or the underlying built-in type. For example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef derived from the same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the underlying built-in type would change. /js On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible is the most > > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say this, we could > > file an errata and propose clearer language. > > Right. And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as is, as this clarification is necessary for its correct functioning. > > Grüße, Carsten > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Feb 25 09:10:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1E13A1C87 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:10:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=AE4+gCxV; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1a7d5b6f-6340-4801-1cbb-08d8d9b03c0f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Feb 2021 17:10:21.7230 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ORhkXpaTwf36mi3VM2FCsAhzfE5m8bxObz9ZGO0l2/53vwvbMWCCxIMmo4tE7NDQFrSrR8129fWztHjfP1TOqA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4111 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.20, xbe-rcd-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:10:27 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Martin Bj=F6rklund > Sent: 22 February 2021 10:14 > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > Thanks Martin, > > > > so you are saying that > > > > int8 { range "1..10"; } > > > > is indeed different from > > > > uint8 { range "1..10"; } > > > > and > > > > int32 { range "1..10"; } >=20 > Yes. >=20 > > The use of the word "syntax" in the text you quote may be a left-over > > from SMIv2 times >=20 > [That's what I thought as well, but I couldn't find it in the SMIv2 > RFCs. Perhaps it was from some sming text?] >=20 > > , it does not really seem to be aligned with how the > > term 'syntax' is used elsewhere in RFC 7950. Anyway, if the agreement > > back then was that you can't change base types (regardless of type > > restrictions), it would have been nice if the text would say this more > > clearly. >=20 > Agreed. [RW]=20 Since the YANG module versioning draft clarifies the BC/NBC rules, perhaps = we could add text to clarify this in that draft? I.e., perhaps something for section 3.1.3 of https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning/ Regards, Rob // As a contributor. >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > /js > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 10:49:38AM +0100, Martin Bj=F6rklund wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Section 11 of RFC 7950 says: > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statemen= t > > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For > > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a > typedef, > > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the > syntax > > > would change. > > > > > > If we're just considering XML, then the syntax or encoding wouldn't > > > change if we went from > > > > > > type int64 { range "2..4"; } > > > > > > to > > > > > > type string { pattern "2|3|4"; } > > > > > > or > > > > > > type enumeration { > > > enum 2; > > > enum 3; > > > enum 4; > > > } > > > > > > or > > > > > > type union { > > > type uint8 { range "2"; } > > > type string { pattern "3"; } > > > type enumeration { enum 4; } > > > } > > > > > > > > > But I don't think this is reasonable, and not the intention. I think > > > that changing the base built-in type always should be considered > > > non-backwards compatible (which the quoted text above seems to imply)= . > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:32:34PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2021-02-19, at 19:18, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the CBOR encoding picks different tags depending on the > > > > > > signedness of the base type and this is why things are not that > simple > > > > > > anymore. > > > > > > > > > > (This is not the CBOR encoding, but the COMI encoding of keys in > URIs.) > > > > > > > > OK. The CBOR document indeed says: > > > > > > > > 6.1. The unsigned integer Types > > > > > > > > Leafs of type uint8, uint16, uint32 and uint64 MUST be encoded > using > > > > a CBOR unsigned integer data item (major type 0). > > > > > > > > 6.2. The integer Types > > > > > > > > Leafs of type int8, int16, int32 and int64 MUST be encoded using > > > > either CBOR unsigned integer (major type 0) or CBOR negative > integer > > > > (major type 1), depending on the actual value. > > > > > > > > This means the type 'int8 { range 0..10; }' leads to the same > > > > encodings as the type 'uint8 { range 0..10; }'. > > > > > > > > > > For the XML and JSON encodings, all definitions lead to the > > > > > > same on-the-wire representation, hence the difference is more a= n > > > > > > implementation detail. I have no clue what the gnmi people do. > The > > > > > > more diverse encodings we add, the more complex things get. > > > > > > > > > > Well, if the equivalence expectation that I was trying to describ= e > actually is ingrained, then whoever designs an encoding (COMI for its URI > encoding included) needs to respect it. That would be important to know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. I think we never defined this. And of course, this can get > > > > even more fun if you consider string based encodings. The type > > > > > > > > type string { pattern "1|2|3|4"; } > > > > > > > > yields the same _XML encoded_ value space as > > > > > > > > type int32 { range "1..4"; } > > > > > > > > but as far as I recall the JSON/CBOR encodings will treat these two > > > > differently. So yes, ideally the YANG language would have clear > rules > > > > what YANG's type equivalences are. > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | > Germany > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Feb 25 10:00:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AFB33A1D8A for ; 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That said, draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02.txt says in 3.1.2.: o Modifying the type of a leaf or leaf-list is NBC This seems to be way more restrictive than the existing YANG 1.1 rules we have today. Perhaps that is what the versioning people want, but then we better keep the YANG 1.1 rules and the YANG + versioning rules separate. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Feb 25 10:33:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A394E3A1E59 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:33:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.645 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.645 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=1.242, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f42Zq6ZcbspY for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:33:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com (mail-lf1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DA4C3A1E58 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:33:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id u4so10079373lfs.0 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:33:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=zpJmEHxE+whqTFt5ysvX/eN6XhXLoOhLaK26rovnV3Q=; b=OLlJTPzh+zGmFYgtGertT+MC0He3o/oOJhbvLooqZh3Q+b/VV8rL5k4fBvm9Y/3ZvK zUzQzQnl0KYghtyPLclwLPSlRTykwuOADxoAr6IEyJTQC55LRYuPMrXy+/klVsMoinnp dGuER6dYbFRboJIve1thsPQIcbHBpuK/mx3oJLP6SxYIayNRIMQLrhfolHfLrlBmaRC2 czXAlkn88omibxChy5ObDBrngY8OQsnD33PynNM8TMyMPatlL1UOggQDD5mP72nr6ie+ /wwuJmn27Rx7gtzb1uzV42q8IzEnEWFkB2fFcVpw39mMIrPv7JTIr/lmeerYumnNM/AR MJsg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=zpJmEHxE+whqTFt5ysvX/eN6XhXLoOhLaK26rovnV3Q=; b=OxM9RZ8CTshdL6X5MNrOCjN+ccQtSVeXAf3l49m12GvtbERB/5h/U97Fu4H08NnsAw kwZSB+I3OiiS1PAue2ukTqHWFbcGKFq31bbrbpDBtAXSj3VHkV4dZ7VmmjSQLXr/i6R6 iqJFP3ODvYjJvhP8VYbG6cE5zLqTrtSUif7rLG8BIJjXAW9Ngfuh79Z1zzCf8cAoucRt 4f3VHM/x2odg4XpQbDDKhujPRJPVbk0jHv0HAYSRJWB2m8Ya6apg/sEG8+2sVNcbHgzD w7Qisk7JgaxswrqE8L9WQ5lMl09UBJa01/kfOVf7gUK2g/391IMSxzDKbYFKM45KAkei crFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533rP0ppbBwkleARXIG4d7Dvo1jtbwYlwfASvsKOc10UysDztfR+ i1LzRLgEP8RXP2pHlMJJslkCwgKH/JaS9WkS3Bhquw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzj9/g8sqPSONXGuyp6oxYwhKcPTcwS33tLG9WamSoUn8ptmtZQT82LMGkabIxw9+I8zkrZgX+pCxW3h82gZIM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:1195:: with SMTP id g21mr2487560lfr.512.1614278001110; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:33:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <20210225180031.zuz2uevh2ozngbzo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20210225180031.zuz2uevh2ozngbzo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:33:10 -0800 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d347ee05bc2d627a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 18:33:31 -0000 --000000000000d347ee05bc2d627a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 10:00 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 05:10:21PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > Since the YANG module versioning draft clarifies the BC/NBC rules, > perhaps we could add text to clarify this in that draft? > > > > I.e., perhaps something for section 3.1.3 of > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning/ > > > > I rather have this fixed (or clarified) in RC 7950, as far as I > understand I can choose to ignore the versioning extensions and > simply use YANG 1.1, no? > > That said, draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02.txt says > in 3.1.2.: > > o Modifying the type of a leaf or leaf-list is NBC > > This seems to be way more restrictive than the existing YANG 1.1 rules > we have today. Perhaps that is what the versioning people want, but > then we better keep the YANG 1.1 rules and the YANG + versioning rules > separate. > > +1 This data types update does not need any new external dependencies. > /js > > Andy > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --000000000000d347ee05bc2d627a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 10:00 AM Juer= gen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 05:10:21PM += 0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
>
> Since the YANG module versioning draft clarifies the BC/NBC rules, per= haps we could add text to clarify this in that draft?
>
> I.e., perhaps something for section 3.1.3 of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-= yang-module-versioning/
>

I rather have this fixed (or clarified) in RC 7950, as far as I
understand I can choose to ignore the versioning extensions and
simply use YANG 1.1, no?

That said, draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02.txt says
in 3.1.2.:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Modifying the type of a leaf or leaf-list is NBC

This seems to be way more restrictive than the existing YANG 1.1 rules
we have today. Perhaps that is what the versioning people want, but
then we better keep the YANG 1.1 rules and the YANG + versioning rules
separate.


+1

This data = types update does not need any new external dependencies.
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Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:22:28 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] type equivalence Thread-Index: AQHXBuAq1qfCOH6jZk2wI7AlPAHCcKpfukcAgAAPWQCAADYYAIAD67GAgAAG5wCAAAVmgIAAAVWAgAUqs2CAAA64gIAAFP5w Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:22:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <20210225180031.zuz2uevh2ozngbzo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20210225180031.zuz2uevh2ozngbzo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: jacobs-university.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;jacobs-university.de; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.12.233.180] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7c0f7ab2-dd00-4834-26ef-08d8d9c2b07e x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4223: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7c0f7ab2-dd00-4834-26ef-08d8d9c2b07e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Feb 2021 19:22:27.9376 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ciZwTHdD/QSopeJFqFiOIFIEUzJ0hUOriT8l1SpYZK4Eev3pXEwi0l+eSqPywj4japBWVHSH7eqIGANYNDiL6A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4223 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.18, xbe-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:22:33 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: 25 February 2021 18:01 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 > On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 05:10:21PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > Since the YANG module versioning draft clarifies the BC/NBC rules, > perhaps we could add text to clarify this in that draft? > > > > I.e., perhaps something for section 3.1.3 of > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning= / > > >=20 > I rather have this fixed (or clarified) in RC 7950, as far as I > understand I can choose to ignore the versioning extensions and > simply use YANG 1.1, no? [RW]=20 As a contributor: I presume so. As an AD: Whether this can be done as a verified errata isn't so clear, but would obv= iously depend on the proposed text. >=20 > That said, draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02.txt says > in 3.1.2.: >=20 > o Modifying the type of a leaf or leaf-list is NBC >=20 > This seems to be way more restrictive than the existing YANG 1.1 rules > we have today. Perhaps that is what the versioning people want, but > then we better keep the YANG 1.1 rules and the YANG + versioning rules > separate. [RW]=20 As a contributor: That is just new text recently added for the config false nodes. I think t= hat it just needs some worth smithing, possibly along with the rest of that= section. Thanks, Rob >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Feb 25 12:02:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581C43A1F74 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 12:02:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ko52LicL4wxd for ; 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dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cisco.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=jacobs-university.de; Received: from AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:194::23) by AM0P190MB0721.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:1a0::24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3868.27; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 20:01:40 +0000 Received: from AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::1ce1:49e3:3e54:804d]) by AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::1ce1:49e3:3e54:804d%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3868.033; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 20:01:40 +0000 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 21:01:39 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20210225200139.uxwymjrgkrkbpyvl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <20210225180031.zuz2uevh2ozngbzo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; 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Does the AD see an issue with the proposed text? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Feb 26 03:32:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39DDC3A1382 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:32:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=dQdR9W6B; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=RiqoaIxe Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4BFt_UkcJxxC for ; 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Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:31:59 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] type equivalence Thread-Index: AQHXBuAq1qfCOH6jZk2wI7AlPAHCcKpfukcAgAAPWQCAADYYAIAD67GAgAAG5wCAAAVmgIAAAVWAgAUqs2CAAA64gIAAFP5wgAAM2oCAAPL7UA== Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:31:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <20210225180031.zuz2uevh2ozngbzo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210225200139.uxwymjrgkrkbpyvl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20210225200139.uxwymjrgkrkbpyvl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: jacobs-university.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;jacobs-university.de; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 02e67413-9ac3-4525-8242-08d8da4a2115 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Feb 2021 11:31:58.9968 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: A9pgj8TsLsAWCJTnXIHUAN0qkN6M4qKD82bztRq8NhFPFI+qE9EngbMmaokShWywmLLA49sOXdVAznGpi9y6+Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4208 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.19, xbe-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:32:09 -0000 Hi Juergen, > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: 25 February 2021 20:02 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 > On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 07:22:27PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > As an AD: > > Whether this can be done as a verified errata isn't so clear, but would > obviously depend on the proposed text. > > >=20 > I have proposed text that tries to fix the unfortunate use of > 'syntax'. Does the AD see an issue with the proposed text? [RW]=20 I apologise if you felt that I was trying to assert authority here, that wa= s not my intent. My aim was to be clear in what capacity I was commenting,= but my efforts may have been clumsy. Also, at the point that I wrote my e= mail, I had not seen that you had sent proposed errata text, which I will c= omment on separately on that thread. There is also an underlying background here is that the IESG is currently w= orking on refining the rules for how errata are processed (e.g., it was dis= cussed in yesterday's telechat). And until those guidelines settle, which = hopefully shouldn't be long, I'm not quite sure which way this errata would= land, i.e., verified, hold for update, or rejected. My specific concern is whether it was clear at the point that consensus was= called on RFC 7950 that everyone had the same interpretation of the expect= ed behaviour, even if that wasn't clear in the text. I also note that draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02 states: This document updates [RFC7950] section 11. Section 3 describes modifications to YANG revision handling and update rules, and Section 4 describes a YANG extension statement to do import by derived revision. So, I'm still of the opinion that clarifying this behaviour in draft-ietf-n= etmod-yang-module-versioning-02, if the proposed change cannot be accepted = as a verified errata, is a pragmatic solution. Regards, Rob >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Feb 26 03:45:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E38F3A13B3 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:45:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13P0CWDDWrx0 for ; 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dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cisco.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=jacobs-university.de; Received: from AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:194::23) by AM0P190MB0708.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:198::23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3890.19; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:45:41 +0000 Received: from AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::1ce1:49e3:3e54:804d]) by AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::1ce1:49e3:3e54:804d%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3868.033; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:45:41 +0000 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:45:39 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20210226114539.46fjeiae44aopw5s@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <20210225180031.zuz2uevh2ozngbzo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210225200139.uxwymjrgkrkbpyvl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; 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Section 3 describes > modifications to YANG revision handling and update rules, and > Section 4 describes a YANG extension statement to do import by > derived revision. > > So, I'm still of the opinion that clarifying this behaviour in draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02, if the proposed change cannot be accepted as a verified errata, is a pragmatic solution. > This document has a long way to go. I am not sure everybody agrees with changing YANG 1.1 rules by an update (without changing YANG's version number, i.e., it becomes upclear which rules apply to a given YANG module). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Feb 26 04:21:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 878073A145F for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 04:21:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:21:26 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] type equivalence Thread-Index: AQHXBuAq1qfCOH6jZk2wI7AlPAHCcKpfukcAgAAPWQCAADYYAIAD67GAgAAG5wCAAAVmgIAAAVWAgAAJU4CAADQZgIAAAKuAgAAF9ICAAADHAIADjp2AgAKQV9A= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:21:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <04B94A94-236A-44CE-B47C-BE5F36FFF278@tzi.org> <20210222135333.t4hfa3ekguwm33pm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222141715.vhzqka77yzhbkpst@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <450E683C-4F47-4314-BA63-DAC17AF60970@tzi.org> <20210224203915.2ysjgjv6izjoh6to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20210224203915.2ysjgjv6izjoh6to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: jacobs-university.de; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 774e0fca-20f9-4b73-e3a1-08d8da510a0c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Feb 2021 12:21:26.7448 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: FjIUHhXd0DpSLU8/sP9fRhtzZubVmJ48Jlii1tuG4bBD4N5AVqPWWVlTU/qlBw/b9UspecyUiI7y7y6R5UHi7Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4381 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.22, xbe-aln-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:21:33 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39 > To: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 > Here is an attempt to come up with better wording. If people agree on > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. >=20 > OLD >=20 > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typedef, > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the syntax > would change. >=20 > NEW >=20 > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement > that does not change the semantics of the type or the underlying > built-in type. For example, an inline type definition may be > replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef derived from the > same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an > int16, since the underlying built-in type would change. [RW]=20 Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is allowed, e.g., o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement that resolves to the same underlying built-in type. For example, ... What does "semantics of the type" cover? If I have this type: typedef "timestamp" { type "string"; description "The time of day that an event occurred, in any format"; } then can I replace it with this definition: typedef "timestamp" { type "string"; description "The time of day, and optionally date, that an event occurred, in any format"; } Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about syntactic constraints covering types: 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hierarchical organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a node in does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used to flag the error. I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning values that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but are outside the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statement. My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to return a value outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is contained in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return 257 in a uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. Regards, Rob >=20 > /js >=20 > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder university.de> wrote: > > > > > > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible is the most > > > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say this, we coul= d > > > file an errata and propose clearer language. > > > > Right. And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as is, as this > clarification is necessary for its correct functioning. > > > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Feb 26 06:27:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 905863A0C49 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 06:27:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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If people agree on > > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. > > > > OLD > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typedef, > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the syntax > > would change. > > > > NEW > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement > > that does not change the semantics of the type or the underlying > > built-in type. For example, an inline type definition may be > > replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef derived from the > > same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an > > int16, since the underlying built-in type would change. > [RW] > > Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is allowed, e.g., > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement > that resolves to the same underlying built-in type. For example, > ... Perhaps - but it is not just the built-in type that matters... > What does "semantics of the type" cover? > > If I have this type: > > typedef "timestamp" { > type "string"; > description > "The time of day that an event occurred, in any format"; > } > > then can I replace it with this definition: > > typedef "timestamp" { > type "string"; > description > "The time of day, and optionally date, that an event > occurred, in any format"; > } This example seems to be constructed since "in any format" is already broken to begin with. A more perhaps better example: If you have type inet:ipv4-address; then you can't replace that with type inet:ipv6-address; since that changes the semantics of the type. If you have a counter that only counts upwards (until it wraps or latches), then you can't replace it with a gauge that goes up and down. The point is that you break expectations about the semantics of a value of existing applications. In your example, if you have time in any format, then well interoperability does not seem to be expected in the first place and then you can start a philosophical discussion whether making something non-interoperable even more non-interoperable is not just leading to non-interoperable. Anyway, the "semantics" part was not the question that triggered this thread, the question was whether changing built-in types is allowed or not. > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about syntactic > constraints covering types: > > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hierarchical > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a node in > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used to flag > the error. > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning values > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but are outside > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statement. > > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to return a value > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is contained > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return 257 in a > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. Perhaps this requires a separate thread. Perhaps 'syntactic constraints' was not a good choice and yes different people might understand 'type-based constraints' differently. RFC 7950 says: The following properties are true in all data trees: o All leaf data values MUST match the type constraints for the leaf, including those defined in the type's "range", "length", and "pattern" properties. So I am not sure about returning 11 for a range 1..10. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Feb 26 06:56:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5123A0906 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 06:56:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aow-JMJy6C4y for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 06:56:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com (mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92CB53A0905 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 06:56:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id r23so10932906ljh.1 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 06:56:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CltpEgTVee8FSj4ecPUuOyGOUmb8SsW4Vv7Mc8XllOI=; b=WW31lkGToh/LWoyS53nK3s9MUZhm2jkiEm6desVaW736RaYuWeWDl2zGeIopFBnEOD /FBQN6j9SH9Vima+WI4YHBtWyGEtLj3I1mG5t5rWNvQc7yDMDorNsSpYz8Grvt4/wDIw +X2uMCwqfu9MO3EStJ+FC2k1BLuPWFEZ6cQsZSQv66oJ2JptbTxH1W19LQQY+mxB9/YX XlOej3KuAdQwlW8L+9m+91lbt/3quXJiofrExoxzcaslyqON3wXTzegXef2d9EMBgiPa LNNm3mW0YrxLcfyUWkRhhl+y4WEy4S3biz9UnwOAkZclJSWHVW1q3KSMBqRno9lxZx5y dQnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=CltpEgTVee8FSj4ecPUuOyGOUmb8SsW4Vv7Mc8XllOI=; b=P+WFjIsHrJ/b+05vcDnRsUZhnOY3cOWjhSFDanqzeV0d7F/rnMqt/9yvUhRTskdtVo 91y8v82JMo3O/QQbilCqprm4TebBqKNy2R9BMzdgI+iwNnb+Tjk3hZQPDxRGCORstDhH IrwYe844C2MEqxTRW+8Hi14d1HzgaO6k6Njsr6HPZgUZfcr1+ANmipZSrLiYeTSIeKM2 SDZnjNcGq2JBZVVVA2koZIuu8vU8123N8aaK+bowZutgxaCttPNngrCbp3a2ZfNV02MR GP0Zc/iKpdSuUSA+m9EqmDpBcNy/BWEGiTmToStDhOhqfI8zkP86S3YgAY6xe7bXu7Cl Wlmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5321vw68fm9bi86kABBDW6z3U/bkdQR2qSzzvEf3GbeNvDLRYtUF X/mDElLLlwC3s0wxJI/v708AE3oBQKdGlFx83+vwDQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwlxKhdRHo9WmVZnTmTJolQE0tmA/MVm03xQoWbz5PIhfHjRuK58Ec27lT2KF+qWEIV4U1cjPZzo5SIRatW1vE= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:2f16:: with SMTP id v22mr1913312ljv.105.1614351410325; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 06:56:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <20210225180031.zuz2uevh2ozngbzo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210225200139.uxwymjrgkrkbpyvl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210226114539.46fjeiae44aopw5s@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20210226114539.46fjeiae44aopw5s@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 06:56:39 -0800 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005b074405bc3e7ab3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:56:55 -0000 --0000000000005b074405bc3e7ab3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 3:45 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 11:31:58AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > I also note that draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02 states: > > > > This document updates [RFC7950] section 11. Section 3 describes > > modifications to YANG revision handling and update rules, and > > Section 4 describes a YANG extension statement to do import by > > derived revision. > > > > So, I'm still of the opinion that clarifying this behaviour in > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02, if the proposed change cannot > be accepted as a verified errata, is a pragmatic solution. > > > > This document has a long way to go. I am not sure everybody agrees > with changing YANG 1.1 rules by an update (without changing YANG's > version number, i.e., it becomes upclear which rules apply to a given > YANG module). > > I do not think an update of any kind can brush aside MUST and MUST NOT details in the updated RFC. It has also been established that YANG extensions are optional for a YANG 1.1 tool and MAY be skipped and ignored, so a new YANG language version cannot be introduced through the use of external statements. We have not seen any demand whatsoever for "NBC automation tools". Violations of sec. 11 rules are rare (and I prefer to keep them that way). In any event, it would require a new YANG version to undo the YANG 1.1 update rules. /js > Andy > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --0000000000005b074405bc3e7ab3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 3:45 AM Juerg= en Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 11:31:58AM +0= 000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
>
> I also note that draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02 states: >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document updates [RFC7950] section 11.=C2=A0 Section= 3 describes
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 modifications to YANG revision handling and update rules,= and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 4 describes a YANG extension statement to do impo= rt by
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 derived revision.
>
> So, I'm still of the opinion that clarifying this behaviour in dra= ft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02, if the proposed change cannot be = accepted as a verified errata, is a pragmatic solution.
>

This document has a long way to go. I am not sure everybody agrees
with changing YANG 1.1 rules by an update (without changing YANG's
version number, i.e., it becomes upclear which rules apply to a given
YANG module).



I do not think an updat= e of any kind can brush aside MUST and MUST NOT details
in the up= dated RFC.=C2=A0 It has also been established that YANG extensions are opti= onal
for a YANG 1.1 tool and MAY be skipped and ignored, so a new= YANG language version
cannot be introduced through the use of ex= ternal statements.

We have not seen any demand wha= tsoever for "NBC automation tools".
Violations of sec. = 11 rules are rare (and I prefer to keep them that way).
In any ev= ent, it would require a new YANG version to undo the YANG 1.1 update rules.=


/js

Andy
=C2=A0

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

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--0000000000005b074405bc3e7ab3-- From nobody Fri Feb 26 07:06:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E9D43A09BC for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:06:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_NAKED_TO_NUMERO=1.999, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=htQSY67Z; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=UIC0fBY7 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rVUimzrQuIV7 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:06:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A3CC3A09B9 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:06:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53CFCBC0; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:06:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:06:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh= ix7ZGhfO/C4q2FIrZjxzEpSRILevKWlpj5TzjMoUs3o=; b=htQSY67ZonEDqHPh ocUZZn2aJihbmFpNnv5RkU5iM8fYHrJh1xYVPimKFXK7RPgj1eI27+Mjg7KvOLky NPToa+EL/cLt0Kf3H3i0TyjMNmtNHWNIU0xnlA2aWD1YbATljR+5qRkZ1mtyKIE6 /RlmLFwjj8vYjfEx/xKuVWNNGoQEJDI/YMww1cvjFCngssTnKEkH93CHEEeuDgxv ZS22YxT5ucyOFnb3G8xbf4IxyEVa+KsxAFv/kEMUGbmaRhYk5lwoxx8qzHIMevHD Yv67KRz5QgEKCq8kvVojZVlP/D1WKQXju34rI4bxc2d/Q//cMdGbq4g2dIrIp1kG J5Rg8w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=ix7ZGhfO/C4q2FIrZjxzEpSRILevKWlpj5TzjMoUs 3o=; b=UIC0fBY7LLPBmEM5lX0ex+tWaFyQWWAi+pa/4i33Tlj2Bqzvh5JETO11h pfVk6DF1XMLnJxJ/HjuSMVb4BJpc1ibZMJ1+vlYKBZ3GnJbZcKaDQznZuTeHCZTG bputIvxnI5r+P+hJukX9mrpHAdV5aGSBebt1iv9aoJmC87B/Kywx71OwuLJ8cYf/ GTC+MKBVR8o+ffgOiwMzDP3f0MJhkQxAVljMhxM5EW1e4LHzaNqjKisX+m1mJsIb fIfBD5WkqIzofXpJRwmF2qEe7wt4Jtla6qchvb31SJQUkpANDNkyYr7UmENs3lym tT9QRIKaETK0fEdXH8R4WcY042Yyg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrledugdejgecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffkvffuhfgjfhfogggtgfesthhqre dtredtudenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhtihhnuceujhpnrhhklhhunhguuceomhgsjhdoihgv thhfseegieeikedrshgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeduieevjeduffdvvedugedvud ehiedvleefhfeuheffjeeuvdegiedvffejleevheenucffohhmrghinhepjhgrtghosghs qdhunhhivhgvrhhsihhthidruggvpdhivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepudehkedrudejge drgedrvdduheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhr ohhmpehmsghjodhivghtfhesgeeiieekrdhsvg X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (unknown [158.174.4.215]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3E7AC240054; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:06:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:06:16 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20210226.160616.1276834419454673357.id@4668.se> To: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: <450E683C-4F47-4314-BA63-DAC17AF60970@tzi.org> <20210224203915.2ysjgjv6izjoh6to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 15:06:24 -0000 "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" wrote: > = > = > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenw= aelder > > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39 > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > = > > Here is an attempt to come up with better wording. If people agree = on > > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. > > = > > OLD > > = > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statem= ent > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. Fo= r > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typ= edef, > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the sy= ntax > > would change. > > = > > NEW > > = > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statem= ent > > that does not change the semantics of the type or the underly= ing > > built-in type. For example, an inline type definition may be= > > replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef derived from = the > > same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an= > > int16, since the underlying built-in type would change. > [RW] = > = > Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is allowed, e.= g., > = > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statem= ent > that resolves to the same underlying built-in type. For exam= ple, > ... > = > = > What does "semantics of the type" cover? Suppose you have: typedef "timestamp" { type yang:date-time; description "The time that an event occurred"; } then you can't change it to: typedef "timestamp" { type yang:date-time; description "The time that an event was received."; } The syntax is the same, but the semantics are different. /martin > = > If I have this type: > = > typedef "timestamp" { > type "string"; > description > "The time of day that an event occurred, in any format"; > } > = > then can I replace it with this definition: > = > typedef "timestamp" { > type "string"; > description > "The time of day, and optionally date, that an event > occurred, in any format"; > } > = > = > = > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about synta= ctic > constraints covering types: > = > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > = > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hierarchical= > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a node = in > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used to f= lag > the error. > = > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning values= > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but are outs= ide > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statement. > = > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to return a v= alue > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is contained= > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return 257 in = a > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > = > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. > = > Regards, > Rob > = > = > > = > > /js > > = > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder > university.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible is the m= ost > > > > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say this, w= e could > > > > file an errata and propose clearer language. > > > > > > Right. And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as is, as thi= s > > clarification is necessary for its correct functioning. > > > > > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > > > > = > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germ= any > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 = > > = > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > = > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Feb 26 07:27:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0847D3A0BC5 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:27:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2dbd83f8-231d-42a5-1cbf-08d8da6b0e12 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Feb 2021 15:27:40.4589 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: COy9M/OYlxcsqSk745XNpdek0/x8RlQ9mjg68YMCGI2q9auiwAoyPG0sZtfR2787x2z08kTvu+vbbbWCNbD91A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4613 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.18, xbe-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 15:27:45 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: 26 February 2021 14:28 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 12:21:26PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > Schoenwaelder > > > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39 > > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > Here is an attempt to come up with better wording. If people agree on > > > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. > > > > > > OLD > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statemen= t > > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For > > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a > typedef, > > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the > syntax > > > would change. > > > > > > NEW > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statemen= t > > > that does not change the semantics of the type or the underlyin= g > > > built-in type. For example, an inline type definition may be > > > replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef derived from th= e > > > same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an > > > int16, since the underlying built-in type would change. > > [RW] > > > > Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is allowed, e.g.= , > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statemen= t > > that resolves to the same underlying built-in type. For > example, > > ... >=20 > Perhaps - but it is not just the built-in type that matters... >=20 > > What does "semantics of the type" cover? > > > > If I have this type: > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > type "string"; > > description > > "The time of day that an event occurred, in any format"; > > } > > > > then can I replace it with this definition: > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > type "string"; > > description > > "The time of day, and optionally date, that an event > > occurred, in any format"; > > } >=20 > This example seems to be constructed since "in any format" is already > broken to begin with. A more perhaps better example: If you have [RW]=20 Constructed merely to have exactly the same type, but with different descri= ptions. >=20 > type inet:ipv4-address; >=20 > then you can't replace that with >=20 > type inet:ipv6-address; >=20 > since that changes the semantics of the type. If you have a counter > that only counts upwards (until it wraps or latches), then you can't > replace it with a gauge that goes up and down. The point is that you > break expectations about the semantics of a value of existing > applications. >=20 > In your example, if you have time in any format, then well > interoperability does not seem to be expected in the first place and > then you can start a philosophical discussion whether making something > non-interoperable even more non-interoperable is not just leading to > non-interoperable. >=20 > Anyway, the "semantics" part was not the question that triggered this > thread, the question was whether changing built-in types is allowed or > not. [RW]=20 Sure, but if we are going to submit an errata for this definition, we want = to ensure that updated definition is clear in all axes, not only the specif= ic issue that was originally raised. Hence, my question is really whether "semantics of the type" is intuitively= obvious, or it requires further text that defines what is meant by that, s= pecifically, that the description in the type (and probably parent types it= 's derived from) forms part of the semantics of a type definition. Otherwise, it is possible that someone may think that it is pattern stateme= nt that defines the semantics of inet:ipv6-address, and not also the descri= ption. >=20 > > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about > syntactic > > constraints covering types: > > > > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > > > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hierarchical > > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a node in > > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it > > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used to fla= g > > the error. > > > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning values > > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but are outsid= e > > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statement. > > > > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to return a > value > > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is contained > > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return 257 in a > > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > > > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. >=20 > Perhaps this requires a separate thread. [RW]=20 I'll split the rest into a separate thread. 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Fri, 26 Feb 2021 15:37:15 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: What operational values can NMDA return? Thread-Index: AdcMVTgjp5I1ru2+RgW2s9P9UZly9g== Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 15:37:15 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: jacobs-university.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;jacobs-university.de; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.12.233.180] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3c7d1df8-086d-4a95-64f9-08d8da6c64b3 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR11MB3202: x-ms-exchange-minimumurldomainage: jacobs-university.de#0 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(376002)(346002)(136003)(39860400002)(366004)(396003)(5660300002)(71200400001)(66446008)(9686003)(26005)(2906002)(86362001)(52536014)(8676002)(8936002)(4326008)(83380400001)(6916009)(478600001)(53546011)(66556008)(33656002)(76116006)(186003)(55016002)(6506007)(316002)(64756008)(66946007)(66476007)(7696005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?us-ascii?Q?yeZ6mIJy2n/VoAQG7i7NaeEuVsfH5r9DOD7M/W6jZw5CsroGrsjswFN40ayc?= =?us-ascii?Q?Bo6OjDxJAtIoS817jwLuRMqjiBOZbGly/DYR3RpK8syDg/qqzl0SvLkK4yEo?= =?us-ascii?Q?tGq/dRLoN35mPIwxedPk6Ee1LN9ihGvgs4IyEBKpywSQi8ra4M7fBRJ3ro/a?= =?us-ascii?Q?YSKhvPsVx/Ghs8F0Md9w5UuHBbLr7DA7RwAaBuCw2QeBZyU7qfPJgVzpwfbG?= =?us-ascii?Q?sgIqiIAP1oebKpbvwyOYu9TUOdvwS5pivrTb4a2PIyvUuuu8L3uTCre+hX1Y?= =?us-ascii?Q?MeZvJ5F8zj0u8Qky6sQqVxoy5by21Cp2kocfxTmXLton18qceo3OorRbC43g?= =?us-ascii?Q?/E6+2uCik1/5VWQUyUWTTyHcl8YCWkXAvHN+ODaIEfqCmtVmY5w88dDnPv2j?= =?us-ascii?Q?XaZpOdSBQ7+gqQjLN9FLq5wGhXak8Omliosv9xFjP8yzi+h0pAWK+heygpHW?= =?us-ascii?Q?NY7delKEQjmhOXbQpHRm73RGKC6OiBEQrX+48k1F6kQI6Pt7Q1cV1fW1OZGn?= =?us-ascii?Q?ALexDOt180o2PQBLSXyhZINFqrfTE+xKMLFpnN/Byhz2TFqQyFIESSrarepe?= =?us-ascii?Q?MrqcIEjHHAdGaoQzaytv/z3wyYbVTZ5Klz9qA7HcAy8AKG9STkwbk8n5PwYM?= =?us-ascii?Q?mo0zYyhUp5IuZMN4LFZzLfST9dFP9YPZdMLTjYNl1Kj/xGLexuCl4F/2089G?= =?us-ascii?Q?7V+AP17qwB45pFC4pfOmWsnYq6kIloqT2yETg83UbOkcz57hFfNFHMe/ZBDm?= =?us-ascii?Q?Z2jmiD/DffrawzddrtpvFA+MsxqyrV3sWNzz2hVtxKJdCRsdD6225pOUyeJz?= =?us-ascii?Q?KBa7740b1XpgIurKpnoGNOQGvhARzMXyVfcFDS2lUg8YJg/ahYfDsXwRFss2?= =?us-ascii?Q?NeKxDcp7x2A/wlU3we61au48rMlHNBntqdtsxOzNRFQHpjicb7IKg7byROjc?= =?us-ascii?Q?2PliS/puBKne9WL2N20i4b9oX1uLlMidlbrvnmw5BCRfGfQM2JiZZX61PtbU?= =?us-ascii?Q?Z+w6l1Rlfpjtie/s5wJc7Oq45RkeBEkOflNG6rYxpuFNsDOr4Pk5gdslxdSt?= =?us-ascii?Q?+Ojv21fHv7NA30zjjnbJ7CLILxlMPcTN8UQlxpqX1rMh54F1MyvWWRPjfiQ7?= =?us-ascii?Q?8+uuh5CCk0H6ml1wyLb2WA+uITZMbTSzVTqdiOcyQsDaW3KQhkDKPIp3tD2+?= =?us-ascii?Q?xjmqS2xnPTFTQ9bPptFp2rZ3jpxFfCF6GD59Nduy9udiou9pD4bLYqdeENLt?= =?us-ascii?Q?+KdjdQHE/nIG6r1O+KScX1QwSnyZxWbqJL01LS4Y4TF5w+Y8Oa17r2RhI2OD?= =?us-ascii?Q?WYrMA5b0n7DuRdrrBen5r1J2?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3c7d1df8-086d-4a95-64f9-08d8da6c64b3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Feb 2021 15:37:15.2907 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: LGqTlwY0S/45qqxX6FnU3Uw+CHV2QykBXgGsivXNSA+QncZN2czBW04BpRkKxnI0xAyDg8UAZNWgr6Hyz/ie5Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR11MB3202 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.18, xbe-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] What operational values can NMDA return? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 15:37:20 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: 26 February 2021 14:28 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 12:21:26PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about > syntactic > > constraints covering types: > > > > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > > > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hierarchical > > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a node in > > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it > > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used to fla= g > > the error. > > > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning values > > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but are outsid= e > > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statement. > > > > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to return a > value > > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is contained > > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return 257 in a > > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > > > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. >=20 > Perhaps this requires a separate thread. Perhaps 'syntactic > constraints' was not a good choice and yes different people might > understand 'type-based constraints' differently. RFC 7950 says: >=20 > The following properties are true in all data trees: >=20 > o All leaf data values MUST match the type constraints for the leaf, > including those defined in the type's "range", "length", and > "pattern" properties. [RW]=20 But RFC 8342 also states: SHOULD conform to any constraints specified in the data model, but given the principal aim of returning "in use" values, it is possible that constraints MAY be violated under some circumstances (e.g., an abnormal value is "in use", the structure of a list is being modified, or remnant configuration (see Section 5.3.1) still exists). Note that deviations SHOULD be used when it is known in advance that a device does not fully conform to the schema. Only semantic constraints MAY be violated. These are the YANG "when", "must", "mandatory", "unique", "min-elements", and "max-elements" statements; and the uniqueness of key values. Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hierarchical organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a node in does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used to flag the error. The first paragraph to me suggests that it is right to return an abnormal v= alue. E.g., perhaps the IPv6 MTU is only allowed to be configured to values great= er than 1280, but due to a bug, what actually gets programmed is 1000. Sho= uld the device return the "in use" MTU value? My understanding of the NMDA= architecture is that it should. However, the second paragraph doesn't list length, pattern, or range as con= straints that can be violated, so perhaps it is not allowed. But I'm not c= onvinced that is what was originally intended ... Regards, Rob =20 >=20 > So I am not sure about returning 11 for a range 1..10. >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Feb 26 07:58:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47D5B3A0D55 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:58:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_NAKED_TO_NUMERO=1.999, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=XlMlOgMy; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=qSMFn9CT Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1EHrPhEFbhpo for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF35D3A0D51 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BC0B17; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:58:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:58:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh= nW8319isrc+sCTZR2TaAv7c7Liw323j3NADKjDQ6bY8=; b=XlMlOgMydPZakkOD ceXHMlfOrV/+JhRZlRy7mHRKGFqAh4ttI7PszWzxWzziBeisNr9h3m+72ikwFt8Q sl54XEXEBYOzOyTJgRcWRX3WO/qkmPHPsbKCbvKZ0Fbip6ODX0ZyFvz/4OrmSewX 9DYea3ptM39aou6zGzADy5pnZY9qDFlzVPssoMn6yxIGlXHPUYbQ03sGg7Ik6aWg pxOgm3bzBHkkairZR890DaeAcbPC3lsTuIjfnYIrnvalA2h/1xVpEwJSD/aLUoFt ENutqd1FheVGcku44KJ1iUPWnK421RaNJxEvXvHqUlFBbkJfEZWOdGbSxkh4VVeW Oq82qw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=nW8319isrc+sCTZR2TaAv7c7Liw323j3NADKjDQ6b Y8=; b=qSMFn9CTsX88myGOLL3kDNHitekMjfBNP6dSHM46RpAl9lEmDevM/3uj0 angEV1vdtF1pxjtY0vYHcWLcIwtxyK7A3ApAQ5bQFF2SaqF7LTEDx4NKyHVV6ISK atiLPvYT7fLq3m7tE5JYim+V6/i3TvyOJKgnwzD7SgGI763l9U47oEAkS/x6S12c CVIYtCfmfMGxaSrGbyWBJ2f2prsEBjQQJFsWVa1A2pPRiRnvBFWp6sg6CeL3TRsG M3s+h38UNw6iLPyLV15UQULqaiVaKrtvib7Q/uph40YAXXKbB+F/BPiwiwhOaIoY PkhCCr6JJP8HBpUluwRupS6lFtCwA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrledugdekgecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffkvffuhfgjfhfogggtgfesthejre dtredtvdenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhtihhnuceujhpnrhhklhhunhguuceomhgsjhdoihgv thhfseegieeikedrshgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeffuddtheekgeehteettdehje elieevjeeiheegveffheeguddvffelvdejkefgieenucffohhmrghinhepjhgrtghosghs qdhunhhivhgvrhhsihhthidruggvpdhivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepudehkedrudejge drgedrvdduheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhr ohhmpehmsghjodhivghtfhesgeeiieekrdhsvg X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (unknown [158.174.4.215]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 86F17240066; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:58:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:58:07 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20210226.165807.1700498563382308347.id@4668.se> To: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] What operational values can NMDA return? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 15:58:14 -0000 "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > Sent: 26 February 2021 14:28 > > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 12:21:26PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > > > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about > > syntactic > > > constraints covering types: > > > > > > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > > > > > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hierarchical > > > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a node in > > > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it > > > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used to flag > > > the error. > > > > > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning values > > > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but are > > > outside > > > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statement. > > > > > > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to return a > > value > > > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is contained > > > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return 257 in a > > > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > > > > > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. > > > > Perhaps this requires a separate thread. Perhaps 'syntactic > > constraints' was not a good choice and yes different people might > > understand 'type-based constraints' differently. RFC 7950 says: > > > > The following properties are true in all data trees: > > > > o All leaf data values MUST match the type constraints for the leaf, > > including those defined in the type's "range", "length", and > > "pattern" properties. > [RW] > > But RFC 8342 also states: > > SHOULD conform to any constraints specified in the data > model, but given the principal aim of returning "in use" values, it > is possible that constraints MAY be violated under some circumstances > (e.g., an abnormal value is "in use", the structure of a list is > being modified, or remnant configuration (see Section 5.3.1) still > exists). Note that deviations SHOULD be used when it is known in > advance that a device does not fully conform to the > schema. > > Only semantic constraints MAY be violated. These are the YANG > "when", "must", "mandatory", "unique", "min-elements", and > "max-elements" statements; and the uniqueness of key values. > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hierarchical > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a node in > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used to flag > the error. > > The first paragraph to me suggests that it is right to return an > abnormal value. > > E.g., perhaps the IPv6 MTU is only allowed to be configured to values > greater than 1280, but due to a bug, what actually gets programmed is > 1000. Should the device return the "in use" MTU value? My > understanding of the NMDA architecture is that it should. No, you have to read the full text. The 3rd paragraph makes it clear that 1000 is not legal in this case. (You know what Juergen says, you MUST NOT have any bugs :) > However, the second paragraph doesn't list length, pattern, or range > as constraints that can be violated, so perhaps it is not allowed. > But I'm not convinced that is what was originally intended ... I think it was. /martin > > Regards, > Rob > > > > > > > > > So I am not sure about returning 11 for a range 1..10. > > > > /js > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Feb 26 08:12:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4037E3A0E1B for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:12:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HGzfCosSeNoY for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:12:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com (mail-lf1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C74103A0E11 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:12:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id v5so14549509lft.13 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:12:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KxEw8id3PxlC/gJ79iEkU1865UteCcx8rX7mXaCXsVE=; b=yuNIoPjQF+wBWXQmiB+1QfvQK64/HPnWgG0iFIElvsi93WBo98mlaG7HcLRgEW8SWs wnpwYENF9c5dilXYvuc5+SKUha0O5jSgjhM4UaWJsx2GrCvFCgsGYANM+c3Q0kU+27Xd zbTbUQILPmLU1/6NLpHNpnVbE6xhHGcdz7DWMPRrleIVNDVKhYW/QCSYc0djF1ENX8y5 o2RS5s5annia9MyKIZu4bYY07yLvvSoKEFZDWEFJr1BzBipJzXTcYgJLebgJRAkfPRgd rFvudQnE3LHt+hdHJv2RFyEasZ9mTncOCf5Xxx/hWs2IvdKUxmVjd8n6g/BcdzWVyYAZ HrdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KxEw8id3PxlC/gJ79iEkU1865UteCcx8rX7mXaCXsVE=; b=Cl+9tjKrBt1BS4EEXTPxdsSMI6BEljMSIph2y+8M0iIGWepqbKIYK2/ZmVtl4uwEG0 nVmsZQ1BgCeFXTYmlofbD1TQ+QQzxWgRvnOeLjSKFnNLgrELPz7EI2LH4fG9+GpAn03m Dfp3WHqE6igMKm/Dbmnzh6YI+tCumYd66TjKJEBWGma64vKzxQH0LqSZ0Sth3J4kLum4 d4zfYZ7GgF7Un+yOr4bxk9MKNq2SUZtejFi4Cnh//Bb7yq3grUC5YtpGqAIAqJk4yO24 gXRKf6iVBQ65kMmKeDpLiUxo5qNTHqVHWeSb0ChvByvh8fjqYL4OWZohnZYKI0igRauc FznQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530+GJxudmSKejmlM5jWTdwOePumFehrU0W1ha+37bnNki8KGieS xLpiO+7aCy8hlUcYKIv1hhg4vLpwIeOt6Rzke6lQ5xGZ03pkCTmU X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzqcnD2b6q65pLmlAVwDLRqIjZSMUljNMhSD4wEHF86Q78F/iqU3obzrf3B3MpcfKWlqpXdrTRu8gWzm4ZlsLs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:1195:: with SMTP id g21mr2091624lfr.512.1614355924472; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:12:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <450E683C-4F47-4314-BA63-DAC17AF60970@tzi.org> <20210224203915.2ysjgjv6izjoh6to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210226.160616.1276834419454673357.id@4668.se> In-Reply-To: <20210226.160616.1276834419454673357.id@4668.se> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:11:53 -0800 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= Cc: Robert Wilton , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006b70ce05bc3f87e8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:12:09 -0000 --0000000000006b70ce05bc3f87e8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 7:06 AM Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund wr= ote: > "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > Schoenwaelder > > > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39 > > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > Here is an attempt to come up with better wording. If people agree on > > > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. > > > > > > OLD > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statemen= t > > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For > > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a > typedef, > > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the synt= ax > > > would change. > > > > > > NEW > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statemen= t > > > that does not change the semantics of the type or the underlyin= g > > > built-in type. For example, an inline type definition may be > > > replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef derived from th= e > > > same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an > > > int16, since the underlying built-in type would change. > I think the NEW text captures the original intent and is OK for an errata. I believe the use-case discussed at the time of writing was simply replacing an inline type with the identical type but within a typedef-stmt instead of inline within a leaf or leaf-list. Perhaps this rule is too strict. There is a simple way to defeat it: Change all type foo { ... } to type union { type foo { ... } } Now you can add new values and semantics without taking away the original syntax and semantics. type union { type foo { ... } type bar { ... } // note new member types added at end of list } But it is not clear that this would be legal or completely BC. It certainly could change the encoding in JSON and CBOR. Andy > [RW] > > > > Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is allowed, e.g.= , > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statemen= t > > that resolves to the same underlying built-in type. For exampl= e, > > ... > > > > > > What does "semantics of the type" cover? > > Suppose you have: > > typedef "timestamp" { > type yang:date-time; > description > "The time that an event occurred"; > } > > then you can't change it to: > > typedef "timestamp" { > type yang:date-time; > description > "The time that an event was received."; > } > > The syntax is the same, but the semantics are different. > > > /martin > > > > > > > > If I have this type: > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > type "string"; > > description > > "The time of day that an event occurred, in any format"; > > } > > > > then can I replace it with this definition: > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > type "string"; > > description > > "The time of day, and optionally date, that an event > > occurred, in any format"; > > } > > > > > > > > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about syntact= ic > > constraints covering types: > > > > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > > > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hierarchical > > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a node in > > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it > > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used to fla= g > > the error. > > > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning values > > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but are outsid= e > > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statement. > > > > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to return a val= ue > > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is contained > > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return 257 in a > > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > > > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. > > > > Regards, > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > university.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible is the mos= t > > > > > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say this, we > could > > > > > file an errata and propose clearer language. > > > > > > > > Right. And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as is, as this > > > clarification is necessary for its correct functioning. > > > > > > > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | German= y > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --0000000000006b70ce05bc3f87e8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 7:06 AM Marti= n Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se= > wrote:
= "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" <rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wr= ote:
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwae= lder
> > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39
> > To: netmod@i= etf.org
> > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence
> >
> > Here is an attempt to come up with better wording. If people agre= e on
> > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata.
> >
> > OLD
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 A "type" statement may be replaced= with another "type" statement
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that does not change the syntax or sema= ntics of the type.=C2=A0 For
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0example, an inline type definition may = be replaced with a typedef,
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0but an int8 type cannot be replaced by = an int16, since the syntax
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0would change.
> >
> > NEW
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 A "type" statement may be replaced= with another "type" statement
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that does not change the semantics of t= he type or the underlying
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0built-in type.=C2=A0 For example, an in= line type definition may be
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0replaced with a semantically equivalent= typedef derived from the
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0same built-in type, but an int8 type ca= nnot be replaced by an
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0int16, since the underlying built-in ty= pe would change.


I think= the NEW text captures the original intent and is OK for an errata.

I believe the use-case discussed at the time of writing w= as simply replacing an inline
type with the identical type but wi= thin a typedef-stmt instead of inline within a leaf or leaf-list.

Perhaps this rule is too strict.
There is a simpl= e way to defeat it:

Change all
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0type foo {=C2=A0 ... }=C2=A0
to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= type union {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type foo { ... }
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 }

Now you can add new values and semant= ics without taking away the original syntax and semantics.

=C2=A0type union {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type foo { = ... }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type bar { ... }=C2=A0 =C2=A0// note n= ew member types added at end of list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }

But it is not clear that this would be legal = or completely BC. It certainly could change the encoding in JSON and CBOR.<= /div>


Andy


<= /div>
> [RW]
>
> Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is allowed, e.g= .,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 A "type" statement may be replac= ed with another "type" statement
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that resolves to the same underlying = built-in type.=C2=A0 For example,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0...
>
>
> What does "semantics of the type" cover?

Suppose you have:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef "timestamp" {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type yang:date-time;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The time that an event occurred";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}

then you can't change it to:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef "timestamp" {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type yang:date-time;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The time that an event was received."= ;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}

The syntax is the same, but the semantics are different.


/martin




>
> If I have this type:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef "timestamp" {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type "string";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The time of day that an event occurred= , in any format";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>
> then can I replace it with this definition:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef "timestamp" {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type "string";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The time of day, and optionally date, = that an event
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 occurred, in any format";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>
>
>
> Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about syntac= tic
> constraints covering types:
>
> 5.3.=C2=A0 The Operational State Datastore (<operational>)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hie= rarchical
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints.=C2= =A0 If a node in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <operational> does not meet the syntactic constrain= ts, then it
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be = used to flag
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the error.
>
> I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning val= ues
> that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but are outsi= de
> the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statement.
>
> My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to return a va= lue
> outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is contained<= br> > in the value space of the built-in-type.=C2=A0 E.g., cannot return 257= in a
> uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10.
>
> But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
> >
> > /js
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote:<= br> > > > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenw= aelder@jacobs-
> > university.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible = is the most
> > > > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say= this, we could
> > > > file an errata and propose clearer language.
> > >
> > > Right.=C2=A0 And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as = is, as this
> > clarification is necessary for its correct functioning.
> > >
> > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jac= obs University Bremen gGmbH
> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus R= ing 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> > Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > netmod mailing list
> > netmod@ietf.= org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
_______________________________________________
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--0000000000006b70ce05bc3f87e8-- From nobody Fri Feb 26 08:30:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8EFF3A0FCA for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:30:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_NAKED_TO_NUMERO=1.999, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=Ko5wUfLI; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=qXiwsfHH Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80eM9pYRcNis for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF8293A0FC4 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE565C66; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:30:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:30:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh= vbrA7cmv1lKQF92btfdN2jrH0kuK2uuEZzp3QhexFwM=; b=Ko5wUfLIeScIJDso l/6TDbJI0RMD27CA2llUoBqfyHxqPO7TnwpAfXIpb8Xh/BzoErrkb1MHmEFFTE0P r4GhFENOc6NK9qhWML0TINIZiJqY5JvnO4QpnnFMkFqsiKD+n26oszDe0ICS7v1x oNpBuTPB7YjkYfrW3hV96YLfxPT0qVeDtRd4B3ki2wglxHioLB03asn9ULT1Fnk/ 9U8XVxzfb7Ka7AMgIGy6cWPBzDmNeUwPPj5neL6f4XtIz/wDnQ+c1b93y3ega1LO P7Q0w9oRXelrolEb49w4GO5OzRNDOIpofa3HPXMkvJK6ar8/lnkti+oEu81Ztg5U 2JRcYg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=vbrA7cmv1lKQF92btfdN2jrH0kuK2uuEZzp3QhexF wM=; b=qXiwsfHHri1jhX5pwCxbKEu3Oz07pmR+VTSi9h7/F5L+WMDGEcq5AlSRv gTQ4h1G/miqKe2k1um5PM4a640vSQ95F4dwqBFPTQ3hPo6fvUE6Uc613Atc7KM9B vlUwMNva2TwlpmSoxXpblpdMwQ9nwitYowkOyH0r5656zioBn2q2sIhNGIBmZwR4 Io87G65yd/OD0ABzxHm/wCzo22tTFRgtQq8OmD/P2ZirZeDLa8l02PLEKGEhRDCI sAXOcyqFBIcIe1ZuhH5b3/43K80tz/OuGKcjTp3WowEq/ASZoVLH+FyUfkBrH8KI o84UFUFckb/endi7/aeASaeoHMT/g== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrledugdeltdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffkvffuhfgjfhfogggtgfesthhqre dtredtudenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhtihhnuceujhpnrhhklhhunhguuceomhgsjhdoihgv thhfseegieeikedrshgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeduieevjeduffdvvedugedvud ehiedvleefhfeuheffjeeuvdegiedvffejleevheenucffohhmrghinhepjhgrtghosghs qdhunhhivhgvrhhsihhthidruggvpdhivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepudehkedrudejge drgedrvdduheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhr ohhmpehmsghjodhivghtfhesgeeiieekrdhsvg X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (unknown [158.174.4.215]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2EA4124005D; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:30:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 17:30:10 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20210226.173010.2304782771110060094.id@4668.se> To: andy@yumaworks.com Cc: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: <20210226.160616.1276834419454673357.id@4668.se> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:30:18 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 7:06 AM Martin Bj=F6rklund = wrote: > = > > "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" wro= te: > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > Schoenwaelder > > > > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39 > > > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > > > Here is an attempt to come up with better wording. If people ag= ree on > > > > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. > > > > > > > > OLD > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" st= atement > > > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type.= For > > > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a= > > typedef, > > > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since th= e syntax > > > > would change. > > > > > > > > NEW > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" st= atement > > > > that does not change the semantics of the type or the und= erlying > > > > built-in type. For example, an inline type definition ma= y be > > > > replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef derived f= rom the > > > > same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replaced b= y an > > > > int16, since the underlying built-in type would change. > > > = > = > I think the NEW text captures the original intent and is OK for an er= rata. +1 > I believe the use-case discussed at the time of writing was simply > replacing an inline > type with the identical type but within a typedef-stmt instead of inl= ine > within a leaf or leaf-list. > = > Perhaps this rule is too strict. > There is a simple way to defeat it: > = > Change all > type foo { ... } > to > type union { > type foo { ... } > } > = > Now you can add new values and semantics without taking away the orig= inal > syntax and semantics. > = > type union { > type foo { ... } > type bar { ... } // note new member types added at end of lis= t > } > = > But it is not clear that this would be legal or completely BC. It cer= tainly > could change the encoding in JSON and CBOR. It is not allowed by sec 11 in 7950, since it changes the syntax of the type. /martin > = > = > Andy > = > = > > [RW] > > > > > > Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is allowed= , e.g., > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" st= atement > > > that resolves to the same underlying built-in type. For = example, > > > ... > > > > > > > > > What does "semantics of the type" cover? > > > > Suppose you have: > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > type yang:date-time; > > description > > "The time that an event occurred"; > > } > > > > then you can't change it to: > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > type yang:date-time; > > description > > "The time that an event was received."; > > } > > > > The syntax is the same, but the semantics are different. > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I have this type: > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > type "string"; > > > description > > > "The time of day that an event occurred, in any format"; > > > } > > > > > > then can I replace it with this definition: > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > type "string"; > > > description > > > "The time of day, and optionally date, that an event > > > occurred, in any format"; > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about s= yntactic > > > constraints covering types: > > > > > > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > > > > > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including hierarch= ical > > > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a n= ode in > > > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it= > > > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used = to flag > > > the error. > > > > > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning va= lues > > > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but are = outside > > > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statement.= > > > > > > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to return= a value > > > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is conta= ined > > > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return 257= in a > > > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > > > > > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote= : > > > > > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > > > university.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible is t= he most > > > > > > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say thi= s, we > > could > > > > > > file an errata and propose clearer language. > > > > > > > > > > Right. And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as is, as= this > > > > clarification is necessary for its correct functioning. > > > > > > > > > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | = Germany > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > From nobody Fri Feb 26 08:33:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639593A12C4 for ; 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Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:32:35 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::24c4:4c09:f6f0:5510]) by MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::24c4:4c09:f6f0:5510%2]) with mapi id 15.20.3868.033; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:32:35 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= , "andy@yumaworks.com" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] type equivalence Thread-Index: AQHXDFy4UeJFz4iWp0CmSIZf3pshw6pqoOTw Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:32:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210226.160616.1276834419454673357.id@4668.se> <20210226.173010.2304782771110060094.id@4668.se> In-Reply-To: <20210226.173010.2304782771110060094.id@4668.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: 4668.se; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;4668.se; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.12.233.180] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b3976a37-9ff9-44da-888d-08d8da741f60 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR11MB2995: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b3976a37-9ff9-44da-888d-08d8da741f60 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Feb 2021 16:32:34.9247 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: HWSJZGSMONVyxxJezqjR3ABVwhJeKwvzxaBAx/ziUkPcEaa7wYs9Via6o8WrE0HSwX8rMkD2ZKIjwW/Pu268Ag== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR11MB2995 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.20, xbe-aln-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:33:57 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Bj=F6rklund > Sent: 26 February 2021 16:30 > To: andy@yumaworks.com > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 > Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 7:06 AM Martin Bj=F6rklund > wrote: > > > > > "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" wrote= : > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > > Schoenwaelder > > > > > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39 > > > > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > > > > > Here is an attempt to come up with better wording. If people agre= e > on > > > > > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. > > > > > > > > > > OLD > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" > statement > > > > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. > For > > > > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a > > > typedef, > > > > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the > syntax > > > > > would change. > > > > > > > > > > NEW > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" > statement > > > > > that does not change the semantics of the type or the > underlying > > > > > built-in type. For example, an inline type definition may > be > > > > > replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef derived fro= m > the > > > > > same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replaced by > an > > > > > int16, since the underlying built-in type would change. > > > > > > > > > I think the NEW text captures the original intent and is OK for an > errata. >=20 > +1 >=20 >=20 > > I believe the use-case discussed at the time of writing was simply > > replacing an inline > > type with the identical type but within a typedef-stmt instead of inlin= e > > within a leaf or leaf-list. > > > > Perhaps this rule is too strict. > > There is a simple way to defeat it: > > > > Change all > > type foo { ... } > > to > > type union { > > type foo { ... } > > } > > > > Now you can add new values and semantics without taking away the > original > > syntax and semantics. > > > > type union { > > type foo { ... } > > type bar { ... } // note new member types added at end of list > > } > > > > But it is not clear that this would be legal or completely BC. It > certainly > > could change the encoding in JSON and CBOR. >=20 > It is not allowed by sec 11 in 7950, since it changes the syntax of > the type. [RW]=20 But the proposed errata removes the text about not changing the syntax, or = are you referring to other text? Rob >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > [RW] > > > > > > > > Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is allowed, > e.g., > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" > statement > > > > that resolves to the same underlying built-in type. For > example, > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > What does "semantics of the type" cover? > > > > > > Suppose you have: > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > type yang:date-time; > > > description > > > "The time that an event occurred"; > > > } > > > > > > then you can't change it to: > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > type yang:date-time; > > > description > > > "The time that an event was received."; > > > } > > > > > > The syntax is the same, but the semantics are different. > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I have this type: > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > type "string"; > > > > description > > > > "The time of day that an event occurred, in any format"; > > > > } > > > > > > > > then can I replace it with this definition: > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > type "string"; > > > > description > > > > "The time of day, and optionally date, that an event > > > > occurred, in any format"; > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about > syntactic > > > > constraints covering types: > > > > > > > > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > > > > > > > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including > hierarchical > > > > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a nod= e > in > > > > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then it > > > > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be used to > flag > > > > the error. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning > values > > > > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but are > outside > > > > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statement. > > > > > > > > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to return a > value > > > > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is > contained > > > > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return 257 i= n > a > > > > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > > > > > > > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > > > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > university.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible is the > most > > > > > > > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say this, > we > > > could > > > > > > > file an errata and propose clearer language. > > > > > > > > > > > > Right. And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as is, as > this > > > > > clarification is necessary for its correct functioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | > Germany > > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 university.de/> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > From nobody Fri Feb 26 08:36:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 174EB3A104E for ; 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Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:36:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 17:36:38 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20210226.173638.580648753389514487.id@4668.se> To: rwilton@cisco.com Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: <20210226.173010.2304782771110060094.id@4668.se> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:36:45 -0000 "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" wrote: > = > = > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin Bj=F6rklund > > Sent: 26 February 2021 16:30 > > To: andy@yumaworks.com > > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > = > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 7:06 AM Martin Bj=F6rklund > > wrote: > > > > > > > "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" = wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen= > > > > Schoenwaelder > > > > > > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39 > > > > > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is an attempt to come up with better wording. If peopl= e agree > > on > > > > > > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD > > > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type= " > > statement > > > > > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the t= ype. > > For > > > > > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced wi= th a > > > > typedef, > > > > > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, sinc= e the > > syntax > > > > > > would change. > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW > > > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type= " > > statement > > > > > > that does not change the semantics of the type or the= > > underlying > > > > > > built-in type. For example, an inline type definitio= n may > > be > > > > > > replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef deriv= ed from > > the > > > > > > same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replac= ed by > > an > > > > > > int16, since the underlying built-in type would chang= e. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the NEW text captures the original intent and is OK for a= n > > errata. > > = > > +1 > > = > > = > > > I believe the use-case discussed at the time of writing was simpl= y > > > replacing an inline > > > type with the identical type but within a typedef-stmt instead of= > > > inline > > > within a leaf or leaf-list. > > > > > > Perhaps this rule is too strict. > > > There is a simple way to defeat it: > > > > > > Change all > > > type foo { ... } > > > to > > > type union { > > > type foo { ... } > > > } > > > > > > Now you can add new values and semantics without taking away the > > original > > > syntax and semantics. > > > > > > type union { > > > type foo { ... } > > > type bar { ... } // note new member types added at end of= list > > > } > > > > > > But it is not clear that this would be legal or completely BC. It= > > certainly > > > could change the encoding in JSON and CBOR. > > = > > It is not allowed by sec 11 in 7950, since it changes the syntax of= > > the type. > [RW] = > = > But the proposed errata removes the text about not changing the > syntax, or are you referring to other text? The new text says that the built-in type cannot change, which it does if we add a type to a union. Hmm, perhaps this isn't clear. /martin > = > Rob > = > = > > = > > = > > /martin > > = > > = > > = > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > [RW] > > > > > > > > > > Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is all= owed, > > e.g., > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type= " > > statement > > > > > that resolves to the same underlying built-in type. = For > > example, > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does "semantics of the type" cover? > > > > > > > > Suppose you have: > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > type yang:date-time; > > > > description > > > > "The time that an event occurred"; > > > > } > > > > > > > > then you can't change it to: > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > type yang:date-time; > > > > description > > > > "The time that an event was received."; > > > > } > > > > > > > > The syntax is the same, but the semantics are different. > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I have this type: > > > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > > type "string"; > > > > > description > > > > > "The time of day that an event occurred, in any format"= ; > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > then can I replace it with this definition: > > > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > > type "string"; > > > > > description > > > > > "The time of day, and optionally date, that an event > > > > > occurred, in any format"; > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes abo= ut > > syntactic > > > > > constraints covering types: > > > > > > > > > > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > > > > > > > > > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including > > hierarchical > > > > > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If= a node > > in > > > > > does not meet the syntactic constraints, the= n it > > > > > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be u= sed to > > flag > > > > > the error. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returnin= g > > values > > > > > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but = are > > outside > > > > > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statem= ent. > > > > > > > > > > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to re= turn a > > value > > > > > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is > > contained > > > > > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return= 257 in > > a > > > > > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > > > > > > > > > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann w= rote: > > > > > > > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > > > university.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible = is the > > most > > > > > > > > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say= this, > > we > > > > could > > > > > > > > file an errata and propose clearer language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right. And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as is= , as > > this > > > > > > clarification is necessary for its correct functioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gG= mbH > > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Breme= n | > > Germany > > > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > university.de/> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > From nobody Fri Feb 26 08:44:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759AA3A1109 for ; 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Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:44:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210226.173010.2304782771110060094.id@4668.se> <20210226.173638.580648753389514487.id@4668.se> In-Reply-To: <20210226.173638.580648753389514487.id@4668.se> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:44:39 -0800 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= Cc: Robert Wilton , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009e782305bc3ffc09" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:44:56 -0000 --0000000000009e782305bc3ffc09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 8:36 AM Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund wr= ote: > "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund > > > Sent: 26 February 2021 16:30 > > > To: andy@yumaworks.com > > > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 7:06 AM Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > > > > Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39 > > > > > > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is an attempt to come up with better wording. If people > agree > > > on > > > > > > > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" > > > statement > > > > > > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the typ= e. > > > For > > > > > > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with= a > > > > > typedef, > > > > > > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since > the > > > syntax > > > > > > > would change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" > > > statement > > > > > > > that does not change the semantics of the type or the > > > underlying > > > > > > > built-in type. For example, an inline type definition > may > > > be > > > > > > > replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef derived > from > > > the > > > > > > > same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replaced > by > > > an > > > > > > > int16, since the underlying built-in type would change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the NEW text captures the original intent and is OK for an > > > errata. > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > I believe the use-case discussed at the time of writing was simply > > > > replacing an inline > > > > type with the identical type but within a typedef-stmt instead of > > > > inline > > > > within a leaf or leaf-list. > > > > > > > > Perhaps this rule is too strict. > > > > There is a simple way to defeat it: > > > > > > > > Change all > > > > type foo { ... } > > > > to > > > > type union { > > > > type foo { ... } > > > > } > > > > > > > > Now you can add new values and semantics without taking away the > > > original > > > > syntax and semantics. > > > > > > > > type union { > > > > type foo { ... } > > > > type bar { ... } // note new member types added at end of > list > > > > } > > > > > > > > But it is not clear that this would be legal or completely BC. It > > > certainly > > > > could change the encoding in JSON and CBOR. > > > > > > It is not allowed by sec 11 in 7950, since it changes the syntax of > > > the type. > > [RW] > > > > But the proposed errata removes the text about not changing the > > syntax, or are you referring to other text? > > The new text says that the built-in type cannot change, which it does > if we add a type to a union. Hmm, perhaps this isn't clear. > > We do not want to see all types defined with union type wrappers from the start, just in case. I do not know if this change is legal in YANG 1.1 but it should be considered existing: type foo {} update: type union { type foo {} type bar {} } This specifically implies that all values that used to be accepted are still accepted with the exact same syntax and semantics as before. An old client will not know about the type bar syntax or semantics, which means it could read values of type bar set by the server or new clients. Not great, but not a disaster either. > /martin > > > Andy > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > [RW] > > > > > > > > > > > > Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is > allowed, > > > e.g., > > > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" > > > statement > > > > > > that resolves to the same underlying built-in type. Fo= r > > > example, > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does "semantics of the type" cover? > > > > > > > > > > Suppose you have: > > > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > > type yang:date-time; > > > > > description > > > > > "The time that an event occurred"; > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > then you can't change it to: > > > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > > type yang:date-time; > > > > > description > > > > > "The time that an event was received."; > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > The syntax is the same, but the semantics are different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I have this type: > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > > > type "string"; > > > > > > description > > > > > > "The time of day that an event occurred, in any format"; > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > then can I replace it with this definition: > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > > > type "string"; > > > > > > description > > > > > > "The time of day, and optionally date, that an event > > > > > > occurred, in any format"; > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about > > > syntactic > > > > > > constraints covering types: > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > > > > > > > > > > > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including > > > hierarchical > > > > > > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a > node > > > in > > > > > > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then = it > > > > > > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be use= d > to > > > flag > > > > > > the error. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning > > > values > > > > > > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but ar= e > > > outside > > > > > > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern statemen= t. > > > > > > > > > > > > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to > return a > > > value > > > > > > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is > > > contained > > > > > > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return > 257 in > > > a > > > > > > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > > > > > university.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible is > the > > > most > > > > > > > > > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say > this, > > > we > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > file an errata and propose clearer language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right. And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as is, = as > > > this > > > > > > > clarification is necessary for its correct functioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmb= H > > > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen = | > > > Germany > > > > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > university.de/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > --0000000000009e782305bc3ffc09 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 8:36 AM Marti= n Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se= > wrote:
= "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>
> > Sent: 26 February 2021 16:30
> > To: andy@= yumaworks.com
> > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; netmod@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence
> >
> > Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 7:06 AM Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se&= gt;
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" <rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc= .ietf.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Juergen
> > > > Schoenwaelder
> > > > > > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39
> > > > > > To: netmod@ietf.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is an attempt to come up with better wor= ding. If people agree
> > on
> > > > > > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errat= a.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OLD
> > > > > >
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 A "type" state= ment may be replaced with another "type"
> > statement
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that does not chang= e the syntax or semantics of the type.
> > For
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0example, an inline = type definition may be replaced with a
> > > > typedef,
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0but an int8 type ca= nnot be replaced by an int16, since the
> > syntax
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0would change.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NEW
> > > > > >
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 A "type" state= ment may be replaced with another "type"
> > statement
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that does not chang= e the semantics of the type or the
> > underlying
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0built-in type.=C2= =A0 For example, an inline type definition may
> > be
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0replaced with a sem= antically equivalent typedef derived from
> > the
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0same built-in type,= but an int8 type cannot be replaced by
> > an
> > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0int16, since the un= derlying built-in type would change.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think the NEW text captures the original intent and is OK = for an
> > errata.
> >
> > +1
> >
> >
> > > I believe the use-case discussed at the time of writing was = simply
> > > replacing an inline
> > > type with the identical type but within a typedef-stmt inste= ad of
> > > inline
> > > within a leaf or leaf-list.
> > >
> > > Perhaps this rule is too strict.
> > > There is a simple way to defeat it:
> > >
> > > Change all
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 type foo {=C2=A0 ... }
> > > to
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 type union {
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type foo { ... }
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> > >
> > > Now you can add new values and semantics without taking away= the
> > original
> > > syntax and semantics.
> > >
> > >=C2=A0 type union {
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type foo { ... }
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type bar { ... }=C2=A0 =C2=A0// no= te new member types added at end of list
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> > >
> > > But it is not clear that this would be legal or completely B= C. It
> > certainly
> > > could change the encoding in JSON and CBOR.
> >
> > It is not allowed by sec 11 in 7950, since it changes the syntax = of
> > the type.
> [RW]
>
> But the proposed errata removes the text about not changing the
> syntax, or are you referring to other text?

The new text says that the built-in type cannot change, which it does
if we add a type to a union.=C2=A0 Hmm, perhaps this isn't clear.



We do not want to see a= ll types defined with union type wrappers from the start,
just in= case.


I do not know if this change= is legal in YANG 1.1 but it should be considered

= =C2=A0 existing:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type foo {}

=C2=A0 update:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type union {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type foo {}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 type bar {}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}


This specifically implies that all values that used to be a= ccepted are still accepted with
the exact same syntax and semanti= cs as before.=C2=A0 An old client will not know about the type bar syntax
or semantics, which means it could read values of type bar set= by the server or new clients.
Not great, but not a disaster eith= er.



/martin



Andy

=C2=A0
>
> Rob
>
>
> >
> >
> > /martin
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > > > [RW]
> > > > >
> > > > > Would the text be more clear it is just specified = what is allowed,
> > e.g.,
> > > > >
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 A "type" sta= tement may be replaced with another "type"
> > statement
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that resolves to = the same underlying built-in type.=C2=A0 For
> > example,
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What does "semantics of the type" cover?=
> > > >
> > > > Suppose you have:
> > > >
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 typedef "timestamp" {
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type yang:date-time;
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The time that an event= occurred";
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > > >
> > > > then you can't change it to:
> > > >
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 typedef "timestamp" {
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type yang:date-time;
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The time that an event= was received.";
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > > >
> > > > The syntax is the same, but the semantics are different= .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > /martin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If I have this type:
> > > > >
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef "timestamp" {
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type "string";
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The time of day th= at an event occurred, in any format";
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> > > > >
> > > > > then can I replace it with this definition:
> > > > >
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef "timestamp" {
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type "string";
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The time of day, a= nd optionally date, that an event
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 occurred, in any format= ";
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also= writes about
> > syntactic
> > > > > constraints covering types:
> > > > >
> > > > > 5.3.=C2=A0 The Operational State Datastore (<op= erational>)
> > > > >
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be vio= lated, including
> > hierarchical
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 organization, identifiers, and type-b= ased constraints.=C2=A0 If a node
> > in
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <operational> does not meet the= syntactic constraints, then it
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUST NOT be returned, and some other = mechanism should be used to
> > flag
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the error.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is= about returning
> > values
> > > > > that can be represented by the underlying built-in= -type, but are
> > outside
> > > > > the value space defined by a range, length, or pat= tern statement.
> > > > >
> > > > > My memory during the discussions was that it is al= lowed to return a
> > value
> > > > > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long= as it is
> > contained
> > > > > in the value space of the built-in-type.=C2=A0 E.g= ., cannot return 257 in
> > a
> > > > > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is= 1..10.
> > > > >
> > > > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actual= ly states.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Rob
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /js
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Car= sten Bormann wrote:
> > > > > > > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenw= aelder
> > > > <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-
> > > > > > university.de> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I guess considering the built-in ty= pes as incompatible is the
> > most
> > > > > > > > robust approach. If we agree that R= FC 7950 tried to say this,
> > we
> > > > could
> > > > > > > > file an errata and propose clearer = language.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Right.=C2=A0 And we can keep the COMI ke= y-to-URL mapping as is, as
> > this
> > > > > > clarification is necessary for its correct fu= nctioning.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen |
> > Germany
> > > > > > Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-
> > university.de/>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____________________________________________= __
> > > > > > netmod mailing list
> > > > > > netmod@ietf.org
> > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/netmod
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > netmod mailing list
> > > > > netmod@ietf.org
> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/netmod
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > netmod mailing list
> > > > ne= tmod@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/netmod
> > > >
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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0bda8667-63d7-495c-48f9-08d8da75def3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Feb 2021 16:45:05.8070 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 8e7br7soWU9xg8nWdvxZ/3XADKQJsQVfmY7KPbGyK5ThEHnm3yrLxloJu+B1BLwcpvAK2yOeGd+Ipjacsjv3iw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4759 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.20, xbe-rcd-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:45:42 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Bj=F6rklund > Sent: 26 February 2021 16:37 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: andy@yumaworks.com; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 > "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Martin Bj=F6rklund > > > Sent: 26 February 2021 16:30 > > > To: andy@yumaworks.com > > > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 7:06 AM Martin Bj=F6rklund > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > > > > Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > Sent: 24 February 2021 20:39 > > > > > > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is an attempt to come up with better wording. If people > agree > > > on > > > > > > > a new wording, I volunteer to submit an errata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OLD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" > > > statement > > > > > > > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the > type. > > > For > > > > > > > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with > a > > > > > typedef, > > > > > > > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since > the > > > syntax > > > > > > > would change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" > > > statement > > > > > > > that does not change the semantics of the type or the > > > underlying > > > > > > > built-in type. For example, an inline type definition > may > > > be > > > > > > > replaced with a semantically equivalent typedef derived > from > > > the > > > > > > > same built-in type, but an int8 type cannot be replaced > by > > > an > > > > > > > int16, since the underlying built-in type would change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the NEW text captures the original intent and is OK for an > > > errata. > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > I believe the use-case discussed at the time of writing was simply > > > > replacing an inline > > > > type with the identical type but within a typedef-stmt instead of > > > > inline > > > > within a leaf or leaf-list. > > > > > > > > Perhaps this rule is too strict. > > > > There is a simple way to defeat it: > > > > > > > > Change all > > > > type foo { ... } > > > > to > > > > type union { > > > > type foo { ... } > > > > } > > > > > > > > Now you can add new values and semantics without taking away the > > > original > > > > syntax and semantics. > > > > > > > > type union { > > > > type foo { ... } > > > > type bar { ... } // note new member types added at end of > list > > > > } > > > > > > > > But it is not clear that this would be legal or completely BC. It > > > certainly > > > > could change the encoding in JSON and CBOR. > > > > > > It is not allowed by sec 11 in 7950, since it changes the syntax of > > > the type. > > [RW] > > > > But the proposed errata removes the text about not changing the > > syntax, or are you referring to other text? >=20 > The new text says that the built-in type cannot change, which it does > if we add a type to a union. Hmm, perhaps this isn't clear. [RW]=20 Not sure. I think that it is reasonable clear, as long as you don't talk a= bout changes in the syntax ;-) But, it might be worth explicitly pulling out that union type is a change, = otherwise someone might try and fudge this by changing uint32 to a union of= uint32 and uint64. Rob >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 >=20 > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > [RW] > > > > > > > > > > > > Would the text be more clear it is just specified what is > allowed, > > > e.g., > > > > > > > > > > > > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" > > > statement > > > > > > that resolves to the same underlying built-in type. Fo= r > > > example, > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does "semantics of the type" cover? > > > > > > > > > > Suppose you have: > > > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > > type yang:date-time; > > > > > description > > > > > "The time that an event occurred"; > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > then you can't change it to: > > > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > > type yang:date-time; > > > > > description > > > > > "The time that an event was received."; > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > The syntax is the same, but the semantics are different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I have this type: > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > > > type "string"; > > > > > > description > > > > > > "The time of day that an event occurred, in any format"; > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > then can I replace it with this definition: > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef "timestamp" { > > > > > > type "string"; > > > > > > description > > > > > > "The time of day, and optionally date, that an event > > > > > > occurred, in any format"; > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tangentially, it is worth noting the RFC 8342 also writes about > > > syntactic > > > > > > constraints covering types: > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.3. The Operational State Datastore () > > > > > > > > > > > > Syntactic constraints MUST NOT be violated, including > > > hierarchical > > > > > > organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. If a > node > > > in > > > > > > does not meet the syntactic constraints, then > it > > > > > > MUST NOT be returned, and some other mechanism should be use= d > to > > > flag > > > > > > the error. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how clear RFC 8342 section 5.3 is about returning > > > values > > > > > > that can be represented by the underlying built-in-type, but ar= e > > > outside > > > > > > the value space defined by a range, length, or pattern > statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > My memory during the discussions was that it is allowed to > return a > > > value > > > > > > outside arange, length, pattern statement, as long as it is > > > contained > > > > > > in the value space of the built-in-type. E.g., cannot return > 257 in > > > a > > > > > > uint8, but can return 11 even if the type range is 1..10. > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I'm not sure that is what the text actually states. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 03:20:02PM +0100, Carsten Bormann > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 2021-02-22, at 15:17, Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > > > > > university.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess considering the built-in types as incompatible is > the > > > most > > > > > > > > > robust approach. If we agree that RFC 7950 tried to say > this, > > > we > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > file an errata and propose clearer language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right. And we can keep the COMI key-to-URL mapping as is, > as > > > this > > > > > > > clarification is necessary for its correct functioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmb= H > > > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen = | > > > Germany > > > > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > university.de/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > 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15.20.3868.033; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:53:22 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Andy Bierman , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] type equivalence Thread-Index: AQHXBuAq1qfCOH6jZk2wI7AlPAHCcKpfukcAgAAPWQCAADYYAIAD67GAgAAG5wCAAAVmgIAAAVWAgAUqs2CAAA64gIAAFP5wgAAM2oCAAPL7UIAAFMWAgAA1XYCAAAJ7QA== Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:53:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210222092455.qupjm2d4lpm4ay4n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.104938.680142326480637892.id@4668.se> <20210222100857.ovetw7udo4ccbezx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <20210225180031.zuz2uevh2ozngbzo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210225200139.uxwymjrgkrkbpyvl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210226114539.46fjeiae44aopw5s@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: yumaworks.com; dkim=none (message not signed) 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List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 17:55:27 -0000 On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 03:27:39PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > Sure, but if we are going to submit an errata for this definition, we want to ensure that updated definition is clear in all axes, not only the specific issue that was originally raised. > This is where the IETF shines, there is an attempt to fix a minor problem and the result is N additional possible problems are put on the table to be considered as well before the minor problem can be fixed. My interest was the original question since I did run into it, my interest is low in fixing all other possible problems that people can think of. Note, there are other places in RFC 7950 where the phrase 'semantics of a definition' is used, e.g., Otherwise, if the semantics of any previous definition are changed (i.e., if a non-editorial change is made to any definition other than those specifically allowed above), then this MUST be achieved by a new definition with a new identifier. and this wording goes back to RFC 2578 and I am not aware that many people had a problem with that, i.e., it seems to have worked 20+ years. > Hence, my question is really whether "semantics of the type" is intuitively obvious, or it requires further text that defines what is meant by that, specifically, that the description in the type (and probably parent types it's derived from) forms part of the semantics of a type definition. I believe 'semantics of a definition' is likely as good as it gets. > Otherwise, it is possible that someone may think that it is pattern statement that defines the semantics of inet:ipv6-address, and not also the description. > If 'semantics of a definition' is a problem, then someone should come up with a separate proposal to fix this new problem (and as outlined above, this phrase goes beyond the paragraph I suggested to clarify). I am not interested in that can of worms and I assume most technical people will know when they change the semantics of a definition. I started this thread because type int8 { range "1..10"; description "a number between 1 and 10"; } type uint8 { range "1..10"; description "a number between 1 and 10"; } can appear to be the same type but it is actually not due to the change of the underlying built-in type and this is what I considered worth to clarify. This is relevant for people writing YANG modules and also for people working on encodings of YANG data where it matters whether they can rely on underlying built-in types not changing. Anyway, if this leads to N additional problems that can be considered to be fixed, then I rather leave things as they are. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Feb 26 11:05:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE683A1528 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:05:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=Zz5XqUGt; 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Fri, 26 Feb 2021 19:05:32 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: NetMod WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] type equivalence Thread-Index: AQHXBuAq1qfCOH6jZk2wI7AlPAHCcKpfukcAgAAPWQCAADYYAIAD67GAgAAG5wCAAAVmgIAAAVWAgAAJU4CAADQZgIAAAKuAgAAF9ICAAADHAIADjp2AgAKQV9CAACyMgIAADmCAgAArnICAAAJw4A== Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 19:05:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <04B94A94-236A-44CE-B47C-BE5F36FFF278@tzi.org> <20210222135333.t4hfa3ekguwm33pm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222141715.vhzqka77yzhbkpst@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <450E683C-4F47-4314-BA63-DAC17AF60970@tzi.org> <20210224203915.2ysjgjv6izjoh6to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210226142749.ry2pbyym6ernhgi4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210226175521.rwnzxeyvub2odn6p@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20210226175521.rwnzxeyvub2odn6p@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: jacobs-university.de; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 58bd78e1-551a-4bf0-0a0b-08d8da897d75 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Feb 2021 19:05:32.2792 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: DkFOHq3ikWUibLhjYPBUyRlJAhotneKb9RBZh6+dvuDsYiFNiQYhSQ5FbaV4Dy92NMHjs9J3h+DwxNqoXox9zw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR11MB3170 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.16, xbe-aln-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 19:05:43 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: 26 February 2021 17:55 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 03:27:39PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > Sure, but if we are going to submit an errata for this definition, we > want to ensure that updated definition is clear in all axes, not only the > specific issue that was originally raised. > > >=20 > This is where the IETF shines, there is an attempt to fix a minor > problem and the result is N additional possible problems are put on > the table to be considered as well before the minor problem can be > fixed. My interest was the original question since I did run into it, > my interest is low in fixing all other possible problems that people > can think of. [RW]=20 I'm not convinced that accurately describes the situation. =20 If it helps to clarify, I have three specific goals here: (1) Check that the proposed corrected text doesn't contain further bugs tha= t also need to be fixed. After all you cannot file an errata on an errata,= and it doesn't look great for me if I have to request that a verified erra= ta is changed to rejected because it contains further issues in a two sente= nce paragraph. (2) Workout whether the errata can be marked as verified, hold for update, = or needs to be rejected. (3) Check that the same bug doesn't exist in other places. I agree that th= is is a tangential goal, and I have already forked this into a separate thr= ead, as you had requested. I am not asking you to generically fix or define "semantics", but I really = would like our proposed replacement text to be entirely unambiguous, and co= ntain no further issues. E.g., I'm wondering, would your proposed new definition allow us to change = from the IETF to IEEE MAC address definition? The underlying type is the s= ame (String), and arguably the semantics of both types is the same (i.e., t= hey both represent an IEEE 802 MAC address), but the syntax of the two type= s clearly differs. 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Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:48:22 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: NetMod WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] type equivalence Thread-Index: AQHXBuAq1qfCOH6jZk2wI7AlPAHCcKpfukcAgAAPWQCAADYYAIAD67GAgAAG5wCAAAVmgIAAAVWAgAAJU4CAADQZgIAAAKuAgAAF9ICAAADHAIADjp2AgAKQV9CAACyMgIAADmCAgAArnICAAAJw4IABA33A Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:48:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210222.111343.254950973345362316.id@4668.se> <04B94A94-236A-44CE-B47C-BE5F36FFF278@tzi.org> <20210222135333.t4hfa3ekguwm33pm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210222141715.vhzqka77yzhbkpst@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <450E683C-4F47-4314-BA63-DAC17AF60970@tzi.org> <20210224203915.2ysjgjv6izjoh6to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210226142749.ry2pbyym6ernhgi4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210226175521.rwnzxeyvub2odn6p@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: jacobs-university.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;jacobs-university.de; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1a678de3-fe2a-4536-e1fa-08d8db04d1e2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Feb 2021 09:48:21.9714 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: qTyIN2Hiz2CxgzidRMmh7eBnhNjP95rwdn56MqKu7h4NwptECp5NJHodv8AUA9d6mqBCwRBw2je3uK9sfP1RvQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4600 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.17, xbe-rcd-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:48:28 -0000 Sorry, but I wish to raise another question regarding changing types. Are you allowed to change from one type to another type that 'contains' the= first type. typedef smallInt { type int8 { range "0..100"; }; } typedef biggerInt { type int8 { range "0..200"; }; } Can I change leaf foo from: leaf foo { type smallInt; } to: leaf foo { type biggerInt; } I'm not sure that the chapter 11 rules in RFC 7950 formally allow this (eit= her with or without the proposed errata), but intuitively I would expected = this to be allowed by commutativity, since this change is clearly legal if = you go via a third intermediate type. E.g., you could change leaf foo from using smallInt to a new tempInt: typedef tempInt { type int8 { range "0..100"; }; } Then, as a second update, change the range in tempInt: typedef tempInt { type int8 { range "0..200"; }; } And in the final step change leaf foo from using tempInt to use biggerInt. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Sent: 26 February 2021 19:06 > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Cc: NetMod WG > Subject: RE: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > Sent: 26 February 2021 17:55 > > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 03:27:39PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > > > Sure, but if we are going to submit an errata for this definition, we > > want to ensure that updated definition is clear in all axes, not only > the > > specific issue that was originally raised. > > > > > > > This is where the IETF shines, there is an attempt to fix a minor > > problem and the result is N additional possible problems are put on > > the table to be considered as well before the minor problem can be > > fixed. My interest was the original question since I did run into it, > > my interest is low in fixing all other possible problems that people > > can think of. > [RW] >=20 > I'm not convinced that accurately describes the situation. >=20 > If it helps to clarify, I have three specific goals here: >=20 > (1) Check that the proposed corrected text doesn't contain further bugs > that also need to be fixed. After all you cannot file an errata on an > errata, and it doesn't look great for me if I have to request that a > verified errata is changed to rejected because it contains further issues > in a two sentence paragraph. >=20 > (2) Workout whether the errata can be marked as verified, hold for update= , > or needs to be rejected. >=20 > (3) Check that the same bug doesn't exist in other places. I agree that > this is a tangential goal, and I have already forked this into a separate > thread, as you had requested. >=20 > I am not asking you to generically fix or define "semantics", but I reall= y > would like our proposed replacement text to be entirely unambiguous, and > contain no further issues. >=20 > E.g., I'm wondering, would your proposed new definition allow us to chang= e > from the IETF to IEEE MAC address definition? The underlying type is the > same (String), and arguably the semantics of both types is the same (i.e.= , > they both represent an IEEE 802 MAC address), but the syntax of the two > types clearly differs. >=20 > Regards, > Rob From nobody Sat Feb 27 06:47:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A1423A08AA for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 06:46:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_NAKED_TO_NUMERO=1.999, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=fpqPfpfF; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=ZkFD+93H Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AOwBAK0Ni9qc for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 06:46:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8B373A08A5 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 06:46:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 096575C0045; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:46:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:46:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; 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Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:46:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:46:53 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20210227.154653.1811714010920179474.id@4668.se> To: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: <20210226175521.rwnzxeyvub2odn6p@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:47:00 -0000 "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" wrote: > Sorry, but I wish to raise another question regarding changing types. > > Are you allowed to change from one type to another type that > 'contains' the first type. > > typedef smallInt { > type int8 { range "0..100"; }; > } > > typedef biggerInt { > type int8 { range "0..200"; }; > } > > Can I change leaf foo from: > > leaf foo { > type smallInt; > } > > to: > > leaf foo { > type biggerInt; > } Yes, this was clearly the intention. We have these two rules: o A "range", "length", or "pattern" statement may expand the allowed value space. o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typedef, but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the syntax would change. But I assume you mean that the second bullet doesn't allow an expanded value space? /martin > > I'm not sure that the chapter 11 rules in RFC 7950 formally allow this (either with or without the proposed errata), but intuitively I would expected this to be allowed by commutativity, since this change is clearly legal if you go via a third intermediate type. > > E.g., you could change leaf foo from using smallInt to a new tempInt: > > typedef tempInt { > type int8 { range "0..100"; }; > } > > Then, as a second update, change the range in tempInt: > > typedef tempInt { > type int8 { range "0..200"; }; > } > > And in the final step change leaf foo from using tempInt to use biggerInt. > > Rob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > > Sent: 26 February 2021 19:06 > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > Cc: NetMod WG > > Subject: RE: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > Sent: 26 February 2021 17:55 > > > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 03:27:39PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > > > > > Sure, but if we are going to submit an errata for this definition, we > > > want to ensure that updated definition is clear in all axes, not only > > the > > > specific issue that was originally raised. > > > > > > > > > > This is where the IETF shines, there is an attempt to fix a minor > > > problem and the result is N additional possible problems are put on > > > the table to be considered as well before the minor problem can be > > > fixed. My interest was the original question since I did run into it, > > > my interest is low in fixing all other possible problems that people > > > can think of. > > [RW] > > > > I'm not convinced that accurately describes the situation. > > > > If it helps to clarify, I have three specific goals here: > > > > (1) Check that the proposed corrected text doesn't contain further bugs > > that also need to be fixed. After all you cannot file an errata on an > > errata, and it doesn't look great for me if I have to request that a > > verified errata is changed to rejected because it contains further issues > > in a two sentence paragraph. > > > > (2) Workout whether the errata can be marked as verified, hold for update, > > or needs to be rejected. > > > > (3) Check that the same bug doesn't exist in other places. I agree that > > this is a tangential goal, and I have already forked this into a separate > > thread, as you had requested. > > > > I am not asking you to generically fix or define "semantics", but I really > > would like our proposed replacement text to be entirely unambiguous, and > > contain no further issues. > > > > E.g., I'm wondering, would your proposed new definition allow us to change > > from the IETF to IEEE MAC address definition? The underlying type is the > > same (String), and arguably the semantics of both types is the same (i.e., > > they both represent an IEEE 802 MAC address), but the syntax of the two > > types clearly differs. > > > > Regards, > > Rob > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Sun Feb 28 10:21:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B4A3A1A4C for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 10:21:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Sun, 28 Feb 2021 18:21:28 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= CC: "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] type equivalence Thread-Index: AQHXBuAq1qfCOH6jZk2wI7AlPAHCcKpfukcAgAAPWQCAADYYAIAD67GAgAAG5wCAAAVmgIAAAVWAgAAJU4CAADQZgIAAAKuAgAAF9ICAAADHAIADjp2AgAKQV9CAACyMgIAADmCAgAArnICAAAJw4IABA33AgABXwICAAcoJQA== Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 18:21:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210226175521.rwnzxeyvub2odn6p@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210227.154653.1811714010920179474.id@4668.se> In-Reply-To: <20210227.154653.1811714010920179474.id@4668.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: 4668.se; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;4668.se; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.12.233.180] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 39903035-5a87-4550-afcc-08d8dc15aa48 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR11MB3172: x-ms-exchange-minimumurldomainage: ietf.org#9486 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 39903035-5a87-4550-afcc-08d8dc15aa48 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Feb 2021 18:21:28.0610 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: YSaYhqWzL8U6XrJKgFTJpuG78ay667bRiVRRWMRe53CW7LVQCPH5h8FVgjR1yMWweSSvneQzox6FX4cfmx0/pg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR11MB3172 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.22, xbe-rcd-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 18:21:44 -0000 Hi Martin, > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Bj=F6rklund > Sent: 27 February 2021 14:47 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence >=20 > "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" wrote: > > Sorry, but I wish to raise another question regarding changing types. > > > > Are you allowed to change from one type to another type that > > 'contains' the first type. > > > > typedef smallInt { > > type int8 { range "0..100"; }; > > } > > > > typedef biggerInt { > > type int8 { range "0..200"; }; > > } > > > > Can I change leaf foo from: > > > > leaf foo { > > type smallInt; > > } > > > > to: > > > > leaf foo { > > type biggerInt; > > } >=20 > Yes, this was clearly the intention. >=20 > We have these two rules: >=20 > o A "range", "length", or "pattern" statement may expand the allowed > value space. >=20 > o A "type" statement may be replaced with another "type" statement > that does not change the syntax or semantics of the type. For > example, an inline type definition may be replaced with a typedef, > but an int8 type cannot be replaced by an int16, since the syntax > would change. >=20 > But I assume you mean that the second bullet doesn't allow an expanded > value space? [RW]=20 Yes, not if you take a literal interpretation of it. I think that the type can be replaced, if and only if: - it resolves to the same underlying base type, and - the semantics remains the same (as given by the description statement),= and - the value space of the new type is the same as, or a superset of, the r= eplaced type. I don't think that syntax needs to be constrained if the base type and valu= e space are already constrained. Rob >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > I'm not sure that the chapter 11 rules in RFC 7950 formally allow this > (either with or without the proposed errata), but intuitively I would > expected this to be allowed by commutativity, since this change is clearl= y > legal if you go via a third intermediate type. > > > > E.g., you could change leaf foo from using smallInt to a new tempInt: > > > > typedef tempInt { > > type int8 { range "0..100"; }; > > } > > > > Then, as a second update, change the range in tempInt: > > > > typedef tempInt { > > type int8 { range "0..200"; }; > > } > > > > And in the final step change leaf foo from using tempInt to use > biggerInt. > > > > Rob > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > > > Sent: 26 February 2021 19:06 > > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > Cc: NetMod WG > > > Subject: RE: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > > Sent: 26 February 2021 17:55 > > > > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > > > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] type equivalence > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 03:27:39PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but if we are going to submit an errata for this definition= , > we > > > > want to ensure that updated definition is clear in all axes, not > only > > > the > > > > specific issue that was originally raised. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is where the IETF shines, there is an attempt to fix a minor > > > > problem and the result is N additional possible problems are put on > > > > the table to be considered as well before the minor problem can be > > > > fixed. My interest was the original question since I did run into > it, > > > > my interest is low in fixing all other possible problems that peopl= e > > > > can think of. > > > [RW] > > > > > > I'm not convinced that accurately describes the situation. > > > > > > If it helps to clarify, I have three specific goals here: > > > > > > (1) Check that the proposed corrected text doesn't contain further > bugs > > > that also need to be fixed. After all you cannot file an errata on a= n > > > errata, and it doesn't look great for me if I have to request that a > > > verified errata is changed to rejected because it contains further > issues > > > in a two sentence paragraph. > > > > > > (2) Workout whether the errata can be marked as verified, hold for > update, > > > or needs to be rejected. > > > > > > (3) Check that the same bug doesn't exist in other places. I agree > that > > > this is a tangential goal, and I have already forked this into a > separate > > > thread, as you had requested. > > > > > > I am not asking you to generically fix or define "semantics", but I > really > > > would like our proposed replacement text to be entirely unambiguous, > and > > > contain no further issues. > > > > > > E.g., I'm wondering, would your proposed new definition allow us to > change > > > from the IETF to IEEE MAC address definition? The underlying type is > the > > > same (String), and arguably the semantics of both types is the same > (i.e., > > > they both represent an IEEE 802 MAC address), but the syntax of the > two > > > types clearly differs. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Rob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Sun Feb 28 11:48:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3003A1B78 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 11:48:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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The underlying type is the same (String), and arguably the semantics of both types is the same (i.e., they both represent an IEEE 802 MAC address), but the syntax of the two types clearly differs. > If [1] is true, then the answer is obviously 'no' since the value spaces of the two types are disjunct. /js [1] https://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2020/yangsters-smansfield-mac-address-format-0420-v01.pdf -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Sun Feb 28 12:48:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07F73A1C2E for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 12:48:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.68 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.68 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL=0.878, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Sun, 28 Feb 2021 20:48:22 +0000 Received: by smtp423.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 4b106bd8344ca2d8da7d09d2b1cd4fe4; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 20:48:18 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.44.20121301 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 15:48:17 -0500 From: Reshad Rahman To: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <23A57701-834D-4F58-8DD6-F25FA4A0E6F4@yahoo.com> Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable References: <23A57701-834D-4F58-8DD6-F25FA4A0E6F4.ref@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.17828 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 20:48:26 -0000 WG, Here are the changes in this revision (various people have contributed to t= he changes after the discussions in the last 2 virtual interims). 1) Addition of backwards-compatibility rules for config false and output da= ta (section 3.1.2) 2) Clarification on YANG module files: use of # in filename with revision-l= abel (section 3)=20 3) New text on impact of removing revisions from the revision history (sect= ion 3.3.2) 4) New text on how adding/changing/removing "revision-xxx" sub-statements i= n import statements is considered BC (section 4) 5) Changed revision-label in the YANG module to match accepted characters 6) New text for IANA maintained YANG modules (section 11.2) Please provide comments/feedback. Regards, Reshad. =EF=BB=BFOn 2021-02-22, 5:30 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-02.txt has been successfully submitted by Reshad Rahman and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning Revision: 02 Title: Updated YANG Module Revision Handling Document date: 2021-02-22 Group: netmod Pages: 40 URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-= module-versioning-02.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang= -module-versioning/ Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod= -yang-module-versioning Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-modu= le-versioning-02 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yan= g-module-versioning-02 Abstract: This document specifies a new YANG module update procedure that can document when non-backwards-compatible changes have occurred during the evolution of a YANG module. It extends the YANG import statemen= t with an earliest revision filter to better represent inter-module dependencies. It provides help and guidelines for managing the lifecycle of YANG modules and individual schema nodes. It provides = a mechanism, via the revision-label YANG extension, to specify a revision identifier for YANG modules. This document updates RFC 7950, RFC 8407 and RFC 8525. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Sun Feb 28 14:09:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E12443A0883 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 14:09:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J3lgumoyfY4C for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 14:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com (mail-wr1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30E683A0887 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 14:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id a18so5893600wrc.13 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 14:09:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MXBInk2549oS/oW95CjrCm79vfMSB5D09yKAgUDRAlM=; b=GJ7NRgJ7aL24qiw2hz4PKMPF1ZNAkMA97A78UPVT8pVJdT/rCWQSEE2s5jp1rdrJgi JKfIhZ7npH2sKsEvbAALL1eKB8/emtR/R5Jdjx7YFnUWB0shv7u6oQJCEo8T6TD9b/gL Tuu2hm1/WNvpGoFKV+kojmDQDqXCPOtnM2JyvDEF/GuD4T2iCJZ/WrS8/smHDdu0+dqb 4Tbq7vm7eh4uoipw8pWc8LQO0AjOJ/eLRQTkDiD2dvfi71Uv5go6PlfSZ/zX3ZZxF2Xg Y+qYDqTe8HafIUdDqjHQiI1MdZGkbnQhTvf5i1jIi/6ClaZI+hts++j0ItGAGwdrxP4/ VOng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MXBInk2549oS/oW95CjrCm79vfMSB5D09yKAgUDRAlM=; b=q6Qy53sY5w8URHulIMglc/OYWyN4AkwrnABC4ruy1kHZ2pukFu47Nr3iEp3iqiOjMF 3VyTq2d05j8N/DhM6g5pWEkuX+RjQbj0GLpsFniYgxh0SsrJJwebGYALuhSXJ1TpbVME emAlSi0C9WS2qd6RO5PgbciVZEVGOtiDeAn95GK+ln9zG1s3PmPf2adJgK1wPZ/VF5RT K9gc67FrWoHOnyleEcQYKAxIEC+pnLSLz9danI8tSukr3iohfj97SUypRmSrAqWlebdD B9da76fAGNPa7piSWnFEYqj2qGHz3qknJbnpeH5eTzrxI33Is8LmNk4ylNi7OBSqix5J +ZhA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5338hO5nZl6LjNEPnSDwR0TnJ4wxWC0AyMjC7ofidU5MNNfKBfce KF8UYXACUoqiJOSMlqV5PdTZJUVzBahDThMiJLJatfUMk6gyGg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxSC/4mirZN+e76GSjxpfsMNWqAw/LYuXiix8xsm4pH1EHRXV2R0ZI9+t2hPwL9AIg311bJCXxJyFvgHgEZU+A= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4203:: with SMTP id n3mr13396821wrq.116.1614550191658; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 14:09:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <63510607-74A6-4218-BE87-10EC6F4ACB38@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <63510607-74A6-4218-BE87-10EC6F4ACB38@tzi.org> From: Ivaylo Petrov Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 23:09:25 +0100 Message-ID: To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" Cc: NetMod WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] draft-ietf-core-comi-11 shepherd review X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:09:56 -0000 Hello Carsten, Thank you for your review! Please find my answers below (prefixed with [IP]= ). Best regards, Ivaylo On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 3:28 PM Carsten Bormann wrote: > > Please note an interesting discussion over at netmod. > > Archived-At: and up. > > It seems we a converging to a conclusion that means that the table at the= top of page 14 in draft-ietf-core-comi-11.txt [1] is not wrong (it would m= ake certain updates of a YANG module a non-backwards compatible change in t= he way we build URIs from that). > > [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-comi-11#page-14 > > That said, maybe we still want to look at why uint and int coding are so = (unnecessarily?) different in their URL encodings. [IP]: It sounds better to me to harmonize this. I will try to see if any of the other authors have specific reasons not to do that. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > > > > On 2021-02-04, at 05:47, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > In my shepherd review of draft-ietf-core-comi-11, I have found a few po= ints that probably need some WG action before we can submit this draft to I= ESG. > > (I also have submitted a PR addressing some nits, https://github.com/co= re-wg/comi/pull/1 .) > > > > Specifically: > > > > # Major > > > > *** 5: This whole section is rather disappointing. What does this > > really do except for pointing at RFC 7959? Is there any > > recommendation in how to work around the race condition? The > > recommendation to use indefinite length is not solving any problem > > (does not work except in very fortuitous cases). > > > > *** 6.2.2 How does the pagination work, then? > > This SHOULD is not actionable. > > *** 7: This creates confusion between 4.01 and 4.03 > > > > # Minor > > > > *** 2.2: While it is not clear whether there will be a SID 0, the text > > seems to imply that this would be encoded in the empty string. > > Should it rather specify a single "A=E2=80=9D? > > > > *** Appendix A: Updated to reference RFC 8949 (see PR). > > Do we need a new module version after this edit? > > > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core