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Tue, 2 Nov 2021 14:34:19 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-02 Thread-Index: AdfP9qCX8fXuXMUPSOi8Sn6CMOXhew== Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 14:34:19 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c079d51e-f62c-40ff-6c69-08d99e0ddaf6 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR08MB4092: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_DM6PR08MB50845DF952058F4C1AAC20649B8B9DM6PR08MB5084namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR08MB5084.namprd08.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c079d51e-f62c-40ff-6c69-08d99e0ddaf6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Nov 2021 14:34:19.3622 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: SbJCTue26mh9dhTDtpFylcSvdhBrigg4OJqTm2PAmoSJOahL2WwOb903op5sP+dgugzV5GboNF4xxf3v1U6nMA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR08MB4092 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2021 14:34:40 -0000 --_000_DM6PR08MB50845DF952058F4C1AAC20649B8B9DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-02 Meeting cancelled next week (Nov 9, IETF 112 week). Meetings will start aga= in on Tues Nov 16th 9:00am Eastern Standard Time (EST) for 1 hour. The regexp pattern for YANG semver revision-label doesn't allow the recomme= nded IETF pre-release names. current pattern: '[0-9]+[.][0-9]+[.][0-9]+(_(non_)?compatible)?(-[A-Za-z0-9.-]+)?([+][A-Za-z= 0-9.-]+)?'; proposed new pattern - Joe to update: '[0-9]+[.][0-9]+[.][0-9]+(_(non_)?com= patible)?(-[A-Za-z0-9.-]+[.-][0-9]+)?([+][A-Za-z0-9.-]+)?'; Issue #81 & #57: Rob will own Issue #105: Jason NBC marker and history in a package: - don't *need* the nbc-changes and it could be incorrect or in conflict wit= h actual state. Can be deterministically determined analyzing the package &= modules - remove the parent leaf ? YES - remove it: - have ancestry stored somewhere else outside the module ? out of scope - ancestry isn't needed. Can have mistakes that are not really correctab= le. Issue #114: Reshad, Rob, Jason, Joe - whoever can get time to fix this, let= the rest of us know Jason to merge 3 presentations: overview + Reshad's slides + Joe's slides (= and let the chairs know) - link to a specific version of the 2 drafts Rgds, Jason --_000_DM6PR08MB50845DF952058F4C1AAC20649B8B9DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-02

 

Meeting cancelled next week (Nov 9, IETF 112 week). = Meetings will start again on Tues Nov 16th 9:00am Eastern Standa= rd Time (EST) for 1 hour.

 

The regexp pattern for YANG semver revision-label do= esn't allow the recommended IETF pre-release names.

 

current pattern:

'[0-9]+[.][0-9]+[.][0-9]+(_(non_)?compatible)?(-[A-Z= a-z0-9.-]+)?([+][A-Za-z0-9.-]+)?';

 

proposed new pattern - Joe to update: '[0-9]+[.][0-9= ]+[.][0-9]+(_(non_)?compatible)?(-[A-Za-z0-9.-]+[.-][0-9]+)?([+][A-Za-z0-9.= -]+)?';

 

Issue #81 & #57: Rob will own

 

Issue #105: Jason

NBC marker and history in a package:

- don't *need* the nbc-changes and it could be incor= rect or in conflict with actual state. Can be deterministically determined = analyzing the package & modules

- remove the parent leaf ?  YES - remove it:

   - have ancestry stored somewhere else o= utside the module ? out of scope

   - ancestry isn't needed. Can have mista= kes that are not really correctable.

 

Issue #114: Reshad, Rob, Jason, Joe - whoever can ge= t time to fix this, let the rest of us know

 

Jason to merge 3 presentations: overview + Reshad's = slides + Joe's slides (and let the chairs know)

- link to a specific version of the 2 drafts

 

Rgds,

Jason

--_000_DM6PR08MB50845DF952058F4C1AAC20649B8B9DM6PR08MB5084namp_-- From 50295@web.de Wed Nov 3 09:06:42 2021 Return-Path: <50295@web.de> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864B83A0972 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 09:06:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.869 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.869 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=web.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vr06Skd-gWYJ for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 09:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.web.de (mout.web.de [212.227.15.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 718BA3A07B1 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 09:06:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1635955596; bh=u34hKRxnF9tqQVTgoo74e697iUzrxwRmPz6YWckB4dw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:To:From:Subject:Date; b=jjdT/7fqoG1WsCkoS0rvNfhXJhnEGyY1VTHPkBRy0QBgsKcUPUlD/IoCmKL1/IvtW D8lY5BFRZ2Aj9r2isfOvOA2XEUIU/sP80Bje0X7lh0WEs36waGtVbyvcAZsyyd7bH8 iHq723dovEt6PoycG4KXLQecTJh4Wt1N16oJCSrA= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from [192.168.0.40] ([77.96.93.142]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb003 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lpw63-1mEAtp3IIB-00fkJI for ; Wed, 03 Nov 2021 17:06:34 +0100 To: netmod@ietf.org From: Olumide <50295@web.de> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 16:06:34 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:luoblghGogRPkBcOTU8vwkUmd3kj6bPKjEj6XY8zUcq4qt+WpLt iVvb9y19lM7wXKqjZCOfbJSzErvDsLxJja1H3Pxw4LyZlnSzQIPk2e2r3drTVWJHZirLKAA wds5WZLovdJuuHtrSdAQOet/T+J+9gx2Ifwu19PvDzK9YJ+Xx1RWlrqaWqu9PTcJebepkqv Zc+n6eFvJHvT07KE42ihQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:I9hM2Hps6/A=:cr3hfAtXln6rPzN6MNblfS baytqojdqapDm42Atm0XiUu7P67Evwytvv6Ea0bYMcEtrMOsPVaJdeUCHyyDHMlTblr1yms3E 22KJHCt9EJSh7TQX6PyKwuHU4JIcp7ssezgBcGnbQo3jlcNeziG0zWuvb5iFuJrFUj9c3G0k5 +sY+Lak9DfpmA6VwMmVERZTQnfjTg5BHuXVv3X/7T+EW5AXpBHPTvIhy8xn4GTps+1lV5oNTc NsvAezBYDDM/Erozca1Kh+jwyEI+egg5iUd/Ts6Bm/6/iRgA2Z23Ab9WnCF9G2zf5/kSEmf2x dAHs6XDaeZdDMBYZ5EYZ2/VpFN9wJbNQzeAnEwNOHn69jwsujzxx36G5fwsV3Is7GsLu61DXj Zd/hX0d3pUplEAxdquEUq7mXufSDnu9KpRGN7JOphlLo7o90paOFUby2HPHwEVd0Eb19qQ7VE JZ0x43q+YLESiEU9oTzcaPTwOvzEgN28mgZz3jnGx3hiUZ4Y4eeOav8XL2Dmx+ps+8i92VQQ0 41sniZ+iR2OFplXMStKV9V4Zff+5h//CoIu4rnKuSqKsTyC9tMV8Jz6NS/+Il9lhBDbwMNVdM v1zMQtZDsn1hOUmnRiylQzXYDdClTf+qzhCKQzaAkuHL/VbyXx2bmGph0qxky98tVRuBnmE0L m8dZEfeq1Jt7jmn2W+Kd4x4wCuHYH8mneH270WuxopcGFQz5M6aVhuGVWuPLeqBTYjkVkpMfZ 57RxkugTBMlvSr68WsnKY2ym5khgPc1nd0V5EFPORDW4DD/z8dudkTiz4Ox3bNgdAQUQOj2W1 ERcgi+hB6VYvEyPW/ywPLKq5wqM5Q== Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Yang string with patterns cannot be assigned default values X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2021 16:09:53 -0000 Dear List, yanglint (version 0.16.105) does not validate the schema below when the a default value is assigned to string that has a pattern. Is this the specified behavior; and if so is there a workaround? (Comments not in schema, added for emphasis) module tmp { namespace "example.com"; prefix "foo"; container bar { leaf wibble { type string { pattern "^x$"; } default "x"; ### NOT OKAY } leaf wobble { type string; default "y"; ### OKAY } } } yanglint error message: err : Value "x" does not satisfy the constraint "^x$" (range, length, or pattern). (/tmp:wibble) err : Module "tmp" parsing failed. Regards, - Olumide From nobody Wed Nov 3 10:11:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 931F73A0C57 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 10:11:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RcHL2ZhTJ6iJ for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 10:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A15343A0C5F for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 10:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id o12so1551140qtv.4 for ; Wed, 03 Nov 2021 10:11:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=DyTulRYxZjJ5JN/Jk1qGa/M8TiQ1OQTj+pQFfwTewr0=; b=ADejGaUy41klNcPK9ALGBdsIpryJZTBENum+dL4ytQMIAgOQ++RxMI+IO7LSVyCkL8 eDbQH0OqtVe0CLDwULKyq4pbQIJve2ZwHZX7SOmNl8G+UJ+l+Y4P3PwsvjK+eVv77Qqq L7/Ht0R5Zq6i95vEsP90OfwMSw5lug8VUZ8Dw+ggvOWJGGXxj73ha2qrPhbyonT5tRHk iK3ThjmnkFATIitNT9YsQZ9/C+z7mZeliOPKEo+aL9YEoXNidCBgWKp2Ktp7uJQijm2L anc3UD6ixBimN6UDZkW+BeqU8mwLmQw14Dosua+BYh0J/qbrFF2uoITaJTO7GsUtbYQu hYeA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=DyTulRYxZjJ5JN/Jk1qGa/M8TiQ1OQTj+pQFfwTewr0=; b=dmxzTFSRE404PfPAdmLnXdfmwJTFE6jkLBQIA+Buv4/7He2HjtdPM91FYgQIC6+t+c FLYbeQupc/9Bp8IS7nXPDxfbRl19UyFyLxqSV7MDAkPEPoqkf4Viuhs4PU7pDL5fACBD I8UPY1coYYNaL16WmUD8G+LowIzwzd8yy2uLh9YeUTMyV2SzRtmgQ8KZ64ihFigJ20UF a5+fKfIzahvaeWzjS1nJ8HEnxAv2BFOFxEt5yDz+7N+5Fl4Pk19sL09xoa3fNrcc/uar ywUyRllKD3jFhUBE8IkQcv2wtiKswIFHAPjMt1rgEZwIIdNLVTe1TRcpAsTYMlD/4JcG tXoA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533nwgUyVMm0ubk+Z7cDY5FQ4N7aTLw2GUbINGXBdkSSs8iaV0kh R0xKYcs8o9OA8R46goMjIz8tqniRIJ4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJys95egUdpSG7X4B6r4xojeBZV1FouInB0V8XrkfPeqhSRhUsVsqq7k2WTAKEb/xIPeDuk8MQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:56f9:: with SMTP id 25mr47441172qtu.374.1635959467382; Wed, 03 Nov 2021 10:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mjethanandan-mbp.home (ool-18bb40ba.dyn.optonline.net. [24.187.64.186]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m6sm1917041qti.38.2021.11.03.10.11.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Nov 2021 10:11:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2E623F88-F1B1-4B0A-BC4F-1A663D7EF960" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 13:11:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org To: Olumide <50295@web.de> References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Yang string with patterns cannot be assigned default values X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2021 17:11:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2E623F88-F1B1-4B0A-BC4F-1A663D7EF960 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I believe if you remove the anchor characters ^ and & from the pattern = statement, the default value will work. > On Nov 3, 2021, at 12:06 PM, Olumide <50295@web.de> wrote: >=20 > Dear List, >=20 > yanglint (version 0.16.105) does not validate the schema below when = the > a default value is assigned to string that has a pattern. Is this the > specified behavior; and if so is there a workaround? (Comments not in > schema, added for emphasis) >=20 > module tmp > { > namespace "example.com"; > prefix "foo"; >=20 > container bar { > leaf wibble { > type string { > pattern "^x$"; > } > default "x"; ### NOT OKAY > } >=20 > leaf wobble { > type string; > default "y"; ### OKAY > } > } > } >=20 >=20 > yanglint error message: >=20 > err : Value "x" does not satisfy the constraint "^x$" (range, length, = or > pattern). (/tmp:wibble) > err : Module "tmp" parsing failed. >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > - Olumide >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_2E623F88-F1B1-4B0A-BC4F-1A663D7EF960 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I = believe if you remove the anchor characters ^ and & from the pattern = statement, the default value will work.

On Nov = 3, 2021, at 12:06 PM, Olumide <50295@web.de> wrote:

Dear = List,

yanglint (version 0.16.105) does not = validate the schema below when the
a default value is = assigned to string that has a pattern. Is this the
specified= behavior; and if so is there a workaround? (Comments not in
schema, added for emphasis)

=    module tmp
   {
       namespace "example.com";
=        prefix "foo";

       container bar {
=            leaf = wibble {
=             &n= bsp;  type string {
=             &n= bsp;      pattern "^x$";
=             &n= bsp;  }
=             &n= bsp;  default "x";      ### NOT = OKAY
=            }

=            leaf = wobble {
=             &n= bsp;  type string;
=             &n= bsp;  default "y";     ### OKAY
=            }
       }
=    }


yanglint = error message:

err : Value "x" does not = satisfy the constraint "^x$" (range, length, or
pattern). = (/tmp:wibble)
err : Module "tmp" parsing failed.


Regards,

- Olumide

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com





= --Apple-Mail=_2E623F88-F1B1-4B0A-BC4F-1A663D7EF960-- From nobody Wed Nov 3 10:20:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F7B3A0C4C for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 10:20:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U4DxxnCEcPo4 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 10:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FBAF3A086C for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 10:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a10c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.161.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Hktnj6G69z30Ks; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 18:20:25 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 18:20:25 +0100 Cc: Olumide <50295@web.de>, netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 657652825.479833-3fdb982694033d3f71045c1af3790814 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Mahesh Jethanandani X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Yang string with patterns cannot be assigned default values X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2021 17:20:34 -0000 On 2021-11-03, at 18:11, Mahesh Jethanandani = wrote: >=20 > I believe if you remove the anchor characters ^ and & from the pattern = statement, the default value will work. Indeed. And the reason is that YANG patterns are not PCRE/Javascript = type regular expressions (which always require anchors unless used for = searching), but W3C XSD type regular expressions, which are implicitly = anchored. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7950.html#section-9.4.5 Most people learn about PCRE/Javascript type regular expressions first, = which is a source of a common misunderstanding of YANG (and, CDDL, for = that matter) regular expressions. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 >> On Nov 3, 2021, at 12:06 PM, Olumide <50295@web.de> wrote: >>=20 [=E2=80=A6] >> leaf wibble { >> type string { >> pattern "^x$"; >> } >> default "x"; ### NOT OKAY >> } [=E2=80=A6] >> err : Value "x" does not satisfy the constraint "^x$" (range, length, = or >> pattern). (/tmp:wibble) >> err : Module "tmp" parsing failed. >>=20 >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> - Olumide >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 >=20 From nobody Thu Nov 4 08:56:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E21373A0E48; Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:56:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Kent Watsen , The IESG , draft-ietf-netmod-geo-location@ietf.org, kent+ietf@watsen.net, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, rwilton@cisco.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <163604141390.4406.13782685915487338564@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2021 08:56:53 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Protocol Action: 'A YANG Grouping for Geographic Locations' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-netmod-geo-location-11.txt) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2021 15:56:54 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'A YANG Grouping for Geographic Locations' (draft-ietf-netmod-geo-location-11.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Network Modeling Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Warren Kumari and Robert Wilton. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-geo-location/ Technical Summary This document defines a generic geographical location object YANG grouping. The geographical location grouping is intended to be used in YANG models for specifying a location on or in reference to Earth or any other astronomical object. Working Group Summary There were no noteworthy WG process issues. Controversial points were resolved. No items had particularly rough consensus. Document Quality There are no known implementations known to the Shepherd. No vendors have indicated their plan to implement the specification. It was originally forwarded to support DT's Terra Stream project The draft had additional review by non-IETF experts Ben Koziol and Jim Biard, and I would like to thank them for them help in reviewing the technical aspects of this YANG model. Ben Koziol - NOAA Affiliate University of Colorado Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences at the NOAA Earth System Research Laboratory/Global Systems Division Jim Biard Research Scholar North Carolina State University North Carolina Institute for Climate Studies (NCICS) Personnel The Shepherd is Kent Watsen. The Responsible Area Director is Robert Wilton. From nobody Sun Nov 7 08:18:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC223A058F; Sun, 7 Nov 2021 08:18:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <163630191653.12353.14930764988257701939@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2021 08:18:36 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2021 16:18:37 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Common YANG Data Types Author : Juergen Schoenwaelder Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08.txt Pages : 41 Date : 2021-11-07 Abstract: This document introduces a collection of common data types to be used with the YANG data modeling language. This document obsoletes RFC 6991. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Nov 7 08:36:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C977C3A07F7 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2021 08:36:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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The draft has no open issues I am aware of. The WG has to decide whether we wrap this up by sending the document to WG last call and then through the publication pipeline or we leave this I-D hanging around just in case more additions get proposed and finally worked out so that they can be added. In later case, it is crucial to provide concrete and actionable proposals. Rough ideas "please add X" where it is left somewhat open what "X" really boils down to or how "X" will be used makes it difficult to work out the details. /js PS: I have not registered for IETF 112, I guess I will watch the session recordings once they are available. -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Nov 8 06:59:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE27A3A0EC2; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 06:59:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <163638357364.7614.17676889878986450514@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 06:59:33 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 14:59:34 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Updated YANG Module Revision Handling Authors : Robert Wilton Reshad Rahman Balazs Lengyel Joe Clarke Jason Sterne Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-05.txt Pages : 40 Date : 2021-11-08 Abstract: This document specifies a new YANG module update procedure that can document when non-backwards-compatible changes have occurred during the evolution of a YANG module. It extends the YANG import statement with an earliest revision filter to better represent inter-module dependencies. It provides guidelines for managing the lifecycle of YANG modules and individual schema nodes. It provides a mechanism, via the revision-label YANG extension, to specify a revision identifier for YANG modules and submodules. This document updates RFC 7950, RFC 6020, RFC 8407 and RFC 8525. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-05 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 8 07:03:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF4AB3A0C9C; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 07:03:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <163638383279.12593.16269829998462000636@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 07:03:52 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 15:03:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Semantic Versioning Authors : Joe Clarke Robert Wilton Reshad Rahman Balazs Lengyel Jason Sterne Benoit Claise Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-05.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2021-11-08 Abstract: This document specifies a scheme and guidelines for applying an extended set of semantic versioning rules to revisions of YANG artifacts (e.g., modules and packages). Additionally, this document defines an RFCAAAA-compliant revision-label-scheme for this YANG semantic versioning scheme. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-05.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-05 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 8 13:38:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6E33A0BF0 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 13:38:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, The weekly YANG Versioning call on Tues Nov 9th is cancelled. See you at t= he IETF112 NETMOD session on Thursday! Jason --_000_DM6PR08MB5084867E88BAFCF16E1A8C7A9B919DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

The weekly YANG Versioning call= on Tues Nov 9th is cancelled.  See you at the IETF112 NETM= OD session on Thursday!

Jason

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR11MB4196.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1a5420b9-1b90-4acc-7cfe-08d9a361d30c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Nov 2021 09:17:59.6812 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jdVc/Kg67ogXr29TYGqHN6YUPxyhMr9tQkITsgpebf5TP5vyI/quIwoEvuTy9LyjfMcFctwOxlkk5M+Y/PX5mg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3141 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.16, xbe-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 09:18:11 -0000 Hi Juergen, My preference would be to last call this document so that other YANG module= s can make use of the new types. We can always spin a future bis document = if further common types are useful. draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning also makes use of the revision-ide= ntifier type defined in this draft. Regards, Rob // As a contributor -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lde= r Sent: 07 November 2021 16:36 To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08.txt On Sun, Nov 07, 2021 at 08:18:36AM -0800, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: s. > This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Common YANG Data Types > Author : Juergen Schoenwaelder > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08.txt > Pages : 41 > Date : 2021-11-07 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08 > This is a mostly editorial update. The draft has no open issues I am aware of. The WG has to decide whether we wrap this up by sending the document to WG last call and then through the publication pipeline or we leave this I-D hanging around just in case more additions get proposed and finally worked out so that they can be added. In later case, it is crucial to provide concrete and actionable proposals. Rough ideas "please add X" where it is left somewhat open what "X" really boils down to or how "X" will be used makes it difficult to work out the details. /js PS: I have not registered for IETF 112, I guess I will watch the session recordings once they are available. --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 9 01:36:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A443A0D2F for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 01:36:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.33, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xIWmfrMpzQ01 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 01:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 316183A0D28 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 01:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml736-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.226]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HpN5t2Z3zz67nMG; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 17:31:30 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.47.76.247] (10.47.76.247) by fraeml736-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 10:36:14 +0100 To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <163630191653.12353.14930764988257701939@ietfa.amsl.com> <20211107163625.42jdakqcfwc5x74f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 10:36:09 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB X-Originating-IP: [10.47.76.247] X-ClientProxiedBy: dggems704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.181) To fraeml736-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.217) X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 09:36:25 -0000 +1. Regards, Benoit On 11/9/2021 10:17 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi Juergen, > > My preference would be to last call this document so that other YANG modules can make use of the new types. We can always spin a future bis document if further common types are useful. > > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning also makes use of the revision-identifier type defined in this draft. > > Regards, > Rob > > // As a contributor > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Jürgen Schönwälder > Sent: 07 November 2021 16:36 > To: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08.txt > > On Sun, Nov 07, 2021 at 08:18:36AM -0800, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > s. >> This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >> >> Title : Common YANG Data Types >> Author : Juergen Schoenwaelder >> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08.txt >> Pages : 41 >> Date : 2021-11-07 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08 >> > This is a mostly editorial update. The draft has no open issues I am > aware of. The WG has to decide whether we wrap this up by sending the > document to WG last call and then through the publication pipeline or > we leave this I-D hanging around just in case more additions get > proposed and finally worked out so that they can be added. In later > case, it is crucial to provide concrete and actionable proposals. > Rough ideas "please add X" where it is left somewhat open what "X" > really boils down to or how "X" will be used makes it difficult to > work out the details. > > /js > > PS: I have not registered for IETF 112, I guess I will watch the > session recordings once they are available. > From nobody Thu Nov 11 04:10:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12B583A0E91; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:10:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <163663263901.4424.10031608077358306000@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:10:39 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-04.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:10:39 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Self Describing Data Object Tags Authors : Qin Wu Benoit Claise Peng Liu Zongpeng Du Mohamed Boucadair Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-04.txt Pages : 28 Date : 2021-11-11 Abstract: This document defines a method to tag data objects associated with operation and management data in YANG modules. This YANG data object tagging method can be used to classify data objects from different YANG modules and identify their characteristics data. It can also provide input, instruction, indication to selection filter, and filter queries of operational state on a server during a "pub/sub" service for YANG datastore updates. When the subscriptions of a particular subscriber to be fetched is very large, the amount of data to be streamed out to the destination can be reduced and only targeted to the characteristics data. These data object tags may be registered as well as assigned during the module definition, assigned by implementations, or dynamically defined and set by users. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-04 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Nov 11 04:13:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B43D63A0E03; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:13:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DYT_E2uK5XUC; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D3B63A0E0A; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml708-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.200]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HqgWf6vZzz67jp0; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:09:50 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeml754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.153) by fraeml708-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:13:26 +0100 Received: from dggeml753-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.152) by dggeml754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2308.15; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:13:24 +0800 Received: from dggeml753-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.152]) by dggeml753-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.152]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.015; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:13:24 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "netmod@ietf.org" CC: NetMod WG Chairs , "draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-04.txt Thread-Index: AdfW9T7TILRMhqTQw0CFAIflDmj63Q== Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:13:24 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.100.16] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-node-tags-04.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAN Cg0KDQpUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0KDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Nov 11 10:34:55 2021 Return-Path: <0100017d1047e938-d91d4c5e-f25e-4c4c-9f49-f1077c491bf8-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BC003A081C; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:34:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t7d_KROimbUc; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:34:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CD7C3A0877; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:34:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1636655688; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:Feedback-ID; bh=OuHmqUvoLzo9H/vNN4OSRIN6m+uN6lcP0Fli0G6M3FM=; b=UClrbvmdvxIfptlvgGUkFQkgbxrbPBgPBGMyhPEsNv3W48ofR42VhUe4vcwsca6d 5ltQaUi2/xcVux0s0OEb9iDm7niGsknYlRjS67Ma+Svp9pAQ21ci7o+fT1un8TX8xDa DdRQvKujuO0YeD1P6a41SBw8pa5yFvolLOBYa32M= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Message-ID: <0100017d1047e938-d91d4c5e-f25e-4c4c-9f49-f1077c491bf8-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:34:48 +0000 Cc: "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" To: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.11.11-54.240.8.31 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Draft minutes for NETMOD 112 session uploaded X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:34:54 -0000 The draft minutes for our session today are both below and uploaded = here: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/minutes-112-netmod Please review and send any corrections to the chairs alias (CC-ed). Thanks! Kent (and Lou (and Joel)) # Minutes for the NETMOD 112 WG Session Our appreciation to the note takers! ### Note takers: - Jason Sterne - Rob Wilton ------------------------------------------------------- # Agenda for the NETMOD 112 WG Session ------------------------------------------------------- - Meeting material: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/session/netmod - WG Documents: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/netmod/documents/ ## Session: - Thursday, November 11, 2021 - Session II (14:30-15:30 UTC, 9:30-10:30 EST, 12:30-13:30 PDT) ## WG Chairs: - Lou Berger (lberger at labs dot net) - Kent Watsen (kent plus ietf at watsen dot net) - Joel Jaeggli (joelja at bogus dot com) ## Available During Session: - ICS: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/sessions/netmod.ics - MeetEcho: = https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf112/?group=3Dnetmod - Audio Only: http://mp3.conf.meetecho.com/ietf112/netmod/1.m3u - Jabber: xmpp:netmod@jabber.ietf.org?join ## Available During and After Session: - Minutes: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-112-netmod - Slides: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/session/netmod - Drafts (TGZ): = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/agenda/netmod-drafts.tgz - Drafts (PDF): = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/agenda/netmod-drafts.pdf ## Available After Session: - Recording: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf112/recordings#NETMOD - Jabber Logs: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/netmod ## Introduction - Chairs (10 minutes) - Session Intro & WG Status Lou Berger: Last document on agenda = (draft-yg3bp-ccamp-optical-inventory-yang-00) is coming from CCAMP WG, = may not have time to present, but generally would expect YANG models = that could reasonably go to other WGs to go there - and this document = will remain there. Lou Berger: should be OK to move 6991-bis forward to WG last call, will = wait a little to see if there are any proposed additions on the list = (will move to WG LC in Dec) ## Chartered items: ### YANG Versioning Update (20 min) - = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versio= ning-05 - = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-05 - = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-02 - Discussion Leader: Balazs Lengyel, Bo Wu _Balazs presenting updates on changes (module versioning and semver), = all documented on the slides._ Balazs Lengyel: The authors think that these docs = (draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-05, = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-05) are ready for WG LC. Kent Watsen: Plan is to take these to WG LC, but then hold them until = the 5 core versioning drafts are all ready and send them to the IESG as = a set. _(+14 mintes into session, Bo presenting on YANG packages)_ Lou Berger: Thank you and all contributors for the hard work and = progress update. As a reminder, anyone can participate in the regular = meetings. Try and repost weekly issues that are being discussed will = help people identify which sessions to attend. ## Non-Chartered items: ### System-defined Configuration (15 min) - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ma-netmod-with-system-00 - Discussion Leader: Qiufang Ma _(+23 minutes into session)_ Jason Sterne: Question about step 4 (on slide 5), would the origin there = not be running rather than intended. Qiufang Ma: There is no origin for running, only from intended. Jason Sterne: For last bullet (slide 8), if the origin has purely = specified in the system config, then it should be system, but if the = config has been explicitly configured then it should be something else = (e.g., intended origin). Jason Sterne: There is going to be some confusion about how the origins = merge, do might need more discussion about the system origin. Kent Watsen (as contributor): Responding to Jason. For origin=3Dsystem, = when copied into running, everything copied would have origin=3Dsystem, = but descendent nodes would have origin=3Dintended. On second point: = (middle bullet point on this slide), should this work introduce into the = intended datastore, a with-origin parameter when reading from intended. = NMDA doesn't currently allow for this. Qiufang Ma: The server must remember where the data comes from. Hence = question is should we define the origin from the clients so that it = comes from intended. Balazs Lengyal: For third bullet, very common to do a show all config, = copy it, and then replace it back. Need the system origin marking to = know which config we don't need to push back. Jason Sterne: Responding to Kent and Balazs. If someone does read from = intended or operational, but not explicit declaring configuration in the = running. Only advocating that if an operation explicitly declares = configuring in running then the origin sees running. Jan Lindblad: My main concern is that we are redefining RFC 7950 and = 8342 in an incompatible way, and I'm concerned about that. Perhaps we = should try and reverse the flags. I want everything to work as normal = if anything if nothing new is specified. Kent Watsen: Desire is to mimic the "default" annotation used in RFC = 6243 for "explicit-mode" servers, so an explicit-client can signal to = the server that the config is intended to be "system" or "running" (just = like if a default value is intended to be the *default* or new config). = More important open issue is that this work is perhaps requiring on YANG = Next. E.g., a system-unaware client might get very surprised. We have = to work through that detail. Balazs Lengyal: For us the immutable flag is absolutely needed.=20 The with-system option should be the deault use. Lou Berger: Out of time, we need to take further discussion on the list. = Good discussion, if we get enough interest then we could always hold = another interim. =46rom the Chat window: Robert Wilton: As a contributor, I also agree with Jason on this point. = The behaviour that he describes would also be consistent with how = default values are handled. Kent Watsen: me too Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel: Agree. with-system is should be the default. The = immutable lag is the most important part for us. ### Extensions to the Access Control Lists (ACLs) YANG Model (15 min) - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-dbb-netmod-acl-00 - Discussion Leader: Oscar Gonz=C3=A1lez de Dios =20 _(+46 minutes into session)_ Jason Sterne: On how to approach the work, but need some discussion on = the list first. My initial feeling is that it might be better as a = separate RFC that extends the base ACL model. What is meant by a = network ACL? Oscar: No, by network ACL, we mean an ACL that is replicated in several = separate devices. E.g., to manage an ACL or particularly, a prefix = list, from a central location. Define it once, and it applies to all = devices (but downloading config to all devices). Lou Berger: In general, it is a judgement call whether to augment or = revise. We really need to get into the details. Similarly for the = question about network vs device, we need to understand more of the = details. Motivation is right on the presentation, but for the draft, = focus on the new capabilities, then we can jump in to answering your = questions. Nobody is saying this is wrong. We have heard that we need = to understand the best way to do this, and also if there is WG support. Oscar: Will look to revise the draft. We will identify what changes may = break existing models. Jason Sterne: Does any of this functionality mean stateful (e.g., = firewall). Oscar: Everything proposed so far is stateless. =46rom chat window: Jeffrey Haas: It's important to distinguish the cases of exact match and = mask-match for flags. And don't rely on enums for the bit = names/positions. (or identities) ### A YANG Data Model for Optical Network Inventory (5 min, time = permitting) - = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-yg3bp-ccamp-optical-inventory-= yang-00 - Discussion Leader: Aihua Guo=20 =20 _The authors agreed to forego this presentation as they plan to proceed = the work in the CCAMP WG._ From nobody Fri Nov 12 14:23:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DA863A12C1 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 14:23:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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e927acc8-bdcc-4c23-45db-08d9a914080f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Nov 2021 15:16:14.8774 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: i00/MeYAZVGNJ3VjwTed6Po/4zSQ8dzkzwnsp6u/XbBpGSq1rf620pAgPHBqUEVQuf1i9IzbigrGaI7dCCszRw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR08MB5084 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-16 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 15:16:24 -0000 --_000_DM6PR08MB5084610DFB6DA9028FC2C8A29B999DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-16 Reminders: - meetings are back to 1 hour starting at 9am Eastern Standard Time (New Yo= rk / Ottawa). - topics for next week listed at the bottom of the minutes 1) review feedback from IETF112 - not much feedback, quiet meeting - try to send topics ahead of time for weekly meetings 2) any actions for Revisioning and SemVer - tell chairs the 2 docs are done as far as authors are concerned and ready= for LC (Jason) 3) outstanding actions for versioning/semver: - #104: Joe to close it - #116: Reshad to close it - #84: Jason to chase down 4) packges issues #29: TBD (package deviation example) #30: Jason #32: TBD (what does metadata mean) #38: Rob #57: TBD (schema mount) #63: Reshad #64: Jason #65: Balazs #66: Jason #67/#69: Jan #70: (deviations in Pkg): Jan #74: (JTS review comments): TBD #76: (compat): TBD #82: Bo - done/closed #97: (submodules) Jason #105: (remove previous-version & nbc-changes) Bo - Jason double check on issue #74 comment about 5.3 (non ref complete) 5) Key discussion topics for next meeting: a) Overlapping module advertisements With the proposed YANG packages solution, there would be one more place whe= re a server would list the set of modules it implements (there are already = 4). Can we somehow reduce the duplication ? https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/69 https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/67 b) review text authors provide for open packages issues listed above. c) continue with these issues: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/74 https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/76 Jason ---------------------------------------------- Weekly webex call details: Meeting number (access code): 161 096 5630 Meeting password: semver? Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, November 16, 2021 from 9:00 AM to 1= 0:00 AM, (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) 9:00 AM | (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) | 1 hr https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dme2c6491ebcc37b8127c1244d244d2754 Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only) +1-650-479-3208,,1610965630## Call-in toll number (US/Canada) --_000_DM6PR08MB5084610DFB6DA9028FC2C8A29B999DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-16

 

Reminders:

- meetings are back to 1 hour starting at 9am Easter= n Standard Time (New York / Ottawa).

- topics for next week listed at the bottom of the m= inutes

 

1) review feedback from IETF112

- not much feedback, quiet meeting

- try to send topics ahead of time for weekly meetin= gs

 

2) any actions for Revisioning and SemVer=

- tell chairs the 2 docs are done as far as authors = are concerned and ready for LC (Jason)

 

3) outstanding actions for versioning/semver:

- #104: Joe to close it

- #116: Reshad to close it

- #84: Jason to chase down

 

4) packges issues

 

#29: TBD (package deviation example)

#30: Jason

#32: TBD (what does metadata mean)

#38: Rob

#57: TBD (schema mount)

#63: Reshad

#64: Jason

#65: Balazs

#66: Jason

#67/#69: Jan

#70: (deviations in Pkg): Jan

#74: (JTS review comments): TBD

#76: (compat): TBD

#82: Bo - done/closed

#97: (submodules) Jason

#105: (remove previous-version & nbc-changes) Bo=

 

- Jason double check on issue #74 comment about 5.3 = (non ref complete)

 

5) Key discussion topics for next meeting:

 

a) Overlapping module advertisements

With the proposed YANG packages solution, there woul= d be one more place where a server would list the set of modules it impleme= nts (there are already 4).  Can we somehow reduce the duplication ?

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/69

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/67

 

b) review text authors provide for open packages iss= ues listed above.

 

c) continue with these issues:

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/74

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/76

 

Jason

 

----------------------------------------------<= /o:p>

Weekly webex call details:

 

Meeting number (access code): 161 096 5630

Meeting password: semver?

 

Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, November 16,= 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)

9:00 AM  |  (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US &= amp; Canada)  |  1 hr

 

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID= =3Dme2c6491ebcc37b8127c1244d244d2754

Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only)

+1-650-479-3208,,1610965630## Call-in toll number (U= S/Canada)

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boundary="_000_DM6PR08MB5084AC2F8DFEC3426C2E3C8A9B9A9DM6PR08MB5084namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR08MB5084.namprd08.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a9138861-dc12-4c58-b989-08d9aa009d56 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Nov 2021 19:29:46.4315 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ISDYRs16PFBdUjJsRmYSx4jCBbCPi3VnNjR2KXLCXui05ykSi7D0ez/PEO0EUnwI1edFT6pLgjHBzym8EiFSLQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR08MB3514 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG semver: clarify reasoning for _COMPAT suffix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 19:29:53 -0000 --_000_DM6PR08MB5084AC2F8DFEC3426C2E3C8A9B9A9DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-05#sect= ion-3.3 shows how the COMPAT suffix (_compatible or _non_compatible) is "st= icky" but we could use some clarifying text to explain *why* that is useful= . This was raised in https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/84. Here are some proposed edits in this PR: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/pull/119 It is mainly adding this paragraph: The _COMPAT modifier string is "sticky". Once a revision of a module has a modifier in the revision label, then all descendants of that revision will also have a modifier. The modifier can change from _compatible to _non_compatible in a descendant revision, but the modifier would never change from _non_compatible to _compatible or be removed. The persistency of the _non_compatible modifier ensures that comparisions of revision labels doesn't give the false impression of compatibility between two potentially non-compatible revisions. If _non_compatible was removed, for example between revisions 3.3.2_non_compatible and 3.3.3 (where 3.3.3 was simply an editorial change), then comparing revision labels of 3.3.3 back to an ancestor 3.0.0 would look like they are backwards compatible when they are not (since 3.3.2_non_compatible was in the chain of ancestors and introduced an NBC change). As well as the info in () here: iii "X.Y.Z_non_compatible" - the artifact version SHOULD be updated to "X.Y.Z+1_non_compatible" (to ensure that information about a break in compatibility is not lost). Jason --_000_DM6PR08MB5084AC2F8DFEC3426C2E3C8A9B9A9DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-05#section-3.3= shows how the COMPAT suffix (_compatible or _non_compatible) is "sticky" but we could use some cla= rifying text to explain *why* that is useful.  This was raised = in https://gith= ub.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/84.

 

Here are some proposed edits in= this PR:

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/pul= l/119

 

It is mainly adding this paragr= aph:

 

   The _COMPAT modifi= er string is "sticky".  Once a revision of a module

   has a modifier in = the revision label, then all descendants of that

   revision will also= have a modifier.  The modifier can change from

   _compatible to _no= n_compatible in a descendant revision, but the

   modifier would nev= er change from _non_compatible to _compatible or be

   removed.  The= persistency of the _non_compatible modifier ensures

   that comparisions = of revision labels doesn't give the false

   impression of comp= atibility between two potentially non-compatible

   revisions.  I= f _non_compatible was removed, for example between

   revisions 3.3.2_no= n_compatible and 3.3.3 (where 3.3.3 was simply an

   editorial change),= then comparing revision labels of 3.3.3 back to an

   ancestor 3.0.0 wou= ld look like they are backwards compatible when

   they are not (sinc= e 3.3.2_non_compatible was in the chain of

   ancestors and intr= oduced an NBC change).

 

As well as the info in () here:=

 

     &= nbsp; iii  "X.Y.Z_non_compatible" - the artifact version SHO= ULD be

     &= nbsp;      updated to "X.Y.Z+1_non_compatible= " (to ensure that

     &= nbsp;      information about a break in compatibil= ity is not lost).

 

Jason

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I left some comments in the GH pull request, Jason. Mostly editorial, but = I think there might be a need for a stronger bit of normative language in t= here as well. Joe On 11/17/21 14:30, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: Hi all, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-05#sect= ion-3.3 shows how the COMPAT suffix (_compatible or _non_compatible) is "st= icky" but we could use some clarifying text to explain *why* that is useful= . This was raised in https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/84. Here are some proposed edits in this PR: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/pull/119 It is mainly adding this paragraph: The _COMPAT modifier string is "sticky". Once a revision of a module has a modifier in the revision label, then all descendants of that revision will also have a modifier. The modifier can change from _compatible to _non_compatible in a descendant revision, but the modifier would never change from _non_compatible to _compatible or be removed. The persistency of the _non_compatible modifier ensures that comparisions of revision labels doesn't give the false impression of compatibility between two potentially non-compatible revisions. If _non_compatible was removed, for example between revisions 3.3.2_non_compatible and 3.3.3 (where 3.3.3 was simply an editorial change), then comparing revision labels of 3.3.3 back to an ancestor 3.0.0 would look like they are backwards compatible when they are not (since 3.3.2_non_compatible was in the chain of ancestors and introduced an NBC change). As well as the info in () here: iii "X.Y.Z_non_compatible" - the artifact version SHOULD be updated to "X.Y.Z+1_non_compatible" (to ensure that information about a break in compatibility is not lost). Jason --_000_BN9PR11MB53718C8942E171468E47BA9BB89A9BN9PR11MB5371namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I left some comments in the GH pull request, Jason.  Mostly editorial,= but I think there might be a need for a stronger bit of normative language= in there as well.

Joe

On 11/17/21 14:30, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA= /Ottawa) wrote:

Hi all,

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-= semver-05#section-3.3 shows how the COMPAT suffix (_compatible or _non_compatible) is "sticky"= ; but we could use some clarifying text to explain *why* that is use= ful.  This was raised in https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/84.

 

Here are some proposed edits in= this PR:

https://github.com/= netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/pull/119

 

It is mainly adding this paragr= aph:

 

   The _COMPAT modifi= er string is "sticky".  Once a revision of a module

   has a modifier in = the revision label, then all descendants of that

   revision will also= have a modifier.  The modifier can change from

   _compatible to _no= n_compatible in a descendant revision, but the

   modifier would nev= er change from _non_compatible to _compatible or be

   removed.  The= persistency of the _non_compatible modifier ensures

   that comparisions = of revision labels doesn't give the false

   impression of comp= atibility between two potentially non-compatible

   revisions.  I= f _non_compatible was removed, for example between

   revisions 3.3.2_no= n_compatible and 3.3.3 (where 3.3.3 was simply an

   editorial change),= then comparing revision labels of 3.3.3 back to an

   ancestor 3.0.0 wou= ld look like they are backwards compatible when

   they are not (sinc= e 3.3.2_non_compatible was in the chain of

   ancestors and intr= oduced an NBC change).

 

As well as the info in () here:=

 

     &= nbsp; iii  "X.Y.Z_non_compatible" - the artifact version SHO= ULD be

     &= nbsp;      updated to "X.Y.Z+1_non_compatible= " (to ensure that

     &= nbsp;      information about a break in compatibil= ity is not lost).

 

Jason


--_000_BN9PR11MB53718C8942E171468E47BA9BB89A9BN9PR11MB5371namp_-- From nobody Wed Nov 17 17:28:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607F03A0755 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 17:28:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n_2UF2TsDdgA for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 17:28:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDC893A074B for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 17:28:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 499) id CD56020EB40; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 17:28:46 -0800 (PST) To: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org From: RFC Errata System Cc: mt@lowentropy.net, kent+ietf@watsen.net, auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de, adrian@olddog.co.uk, bill.wu@huawei.com, netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20211118012846.CD56020EB40@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 17:28:46 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC8792 (6739) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 01:28:53 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8792, "Handling Long Lines in Content of Internet-Drafts and RFCs". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6739 -------------------------------------- Type: Editorial Reported by: Martin Thomson Section: 7.1.2 Original Text ------------- Exceptionally long lines MAY be folded multiple times. Corrected Text -------------- Exceptionally long lines MAY be folded multiple times. Notes ----- The "MAY" in this text lacks a bcp14 XML tag. This is apparent in the non-text renderings. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC8792 (draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-12) -------------------------------------- Title : Handling Long Lines in Content of Internet-Drafts and RFCs Publication Date : June 2020 Author(s) : K. Watsen, E. Auerswald, A. Farrel, Q. Wu Category : INFORMATIONAL Source : Network Modeling Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Thu Nov 18 18:39:16 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 958843A0412; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 18:39:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vQmg_FyaWA5m; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 18:39:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3B433A040B; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 18:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 499) id E15A71FD3B; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 18:39:05 -0800 (PST) To: mt@lowentropy.net, kent+ietf@watsen.net, auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de, adrian@olddog.co.uk, bill.wu@huawei.com From: RFC Errata System Cc: rfc-ed@rfc-editor.org, iesg@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20211119023905.E15A71FD3B@rfc-editor.org> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 18:39:05 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] [Errata Verified] RFC8792 (6739) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 02:39:11 -0000 The following errata report has been verified for RFC8792, "Handling Long Lines in Content of Internet-Drafts and RFCs". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6739 -------------------------------------- Status: Verified Type: Editorial Reported by: Martin Thomson Date Reported: 2021-11-18 Verified by: RFC Editor Section: 7.1.2 Original Text ------------- Exceptionally long lines MAY be folded multiple times. Corrected Text -------------- Exceptionally long lines MAY be folded multiple times. Notes ----- The "MAY" in this text lacks a bcp14 XML tag. This is apparent in the non-text renderings. --VERIFIER NOTES-- This also applies to section 8.1.2 -------------------------------------- RFC8792 (draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-12) -------------------------------------- Title : Handling Long Lines in Content of Internet-Drafts and RFCs Publication Date : June 2020 Author(s) : K. Watsen, E. Auerswald, A. Farrel, Q. Wu Category : INFORMATIONAL Source : Network Modeling Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF From nobody Thu Nov 18 19:22:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7ADC3A07EA for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 19:22:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JRKKyIczelN2 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 19:22:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22B6F3A07EB for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC8792 (6739) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 03:22:20 -0000 R29vZCBjYXRjaCwgTWFydGluLCANCkFncmVlIHRoZSB0ZXh0IHNob3VsZCBiZSBjb3JyZWN0ZWQu DQoNCi1RaW4NCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7tuS6ujogUkZDIEVycmF0YSBT eXN0ZW0gW21haWx0bzpyZmMtZWRpdG9yQHJmYy1lZGl0b3Iub3JnXSANCuWPkemAgeaXtumXtDog MjAyMeW5tDEx5pyIMTjml6UgOToyOQ0K5pS25Lu25Lq6OiByZmMtZWRpdG9yQHJmYy1lZGl0b3Iu b3JnDQrmioTpgIE6IG10QGxvd2VudHJvcHkubmV0OyBrZW50K2lldGZAd2F0c2VuLm5ldDsgYXVl cnN3YWxAdW5peC1hZy51bmkta2wuZGU7IGFkcmlhbkBvbGRkb2cuY28udWs7IFFpbiBXdSA8Ymls bC53dUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPjsgbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQrkuLvpopg6IFtFZGl0b3JpYWwgRXJy YXRhIFJlcG9ydGVkXSBSRkM4NzkyICg2NzM5KQ0KDQpUaGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGVycmF0YSByZXBv cnQgaGFzIGJlZW4gc3VibWl0dGVkIGZvciBSRkM4NzkyLCAiSGFuZGxpbmcgTG9uZyBMaW5lcyBp biBDb250ZW50IG9mIEludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0cyBhbmQgUkZDcyIuDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpZb3UgbWF5IHJldmlldyB0aGUgcmVwb3J0IGJlbG93 IGFuZCBhdDoNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnJmYy1lZGl0b3Iub3JnL2VycmF0YS9laWQ2NzM5DQoNCi0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpUeXBlOiBFZGl0b3JpYWwNClJl cG9ydGVkIGJ5OiBNYXJ0aW4gVGhvbXNvbiA8bXRAbG93ZW50cm9weS5uZXQ+DQoNClNlY3Rpb246 IDcuMS4yDQoNCk9yaWdpbmFsIFRleHQNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCkV4Y2VwdGlvbmFsbHkgbG9u ZyBsaW5lcyBNQVkgYmUgZm9sZGVkIG11bHRpcGxlIHRpbWVzLg0KDQpDb3JyZWN0ZWQgVGV4dA0K LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCkV4Y2VwdGlvbmFsbHkgbG9uZyBsaW5lcyBNQVkgYmUgZm9sZGVkIG11 bHRpcGxlIHRpbWVzLg0KDQpOb3Rlcw0KLS0tLS0NClRoZSAiTUFZIiBpbiB0aGlzIHRleHQgbGFj a3MgYSBiY3AxNCBYTUwgdGFnLiBUaGlzIGlzIGFwcGFyZW50IGluIHRoZSBub24tdGV4dCByZW5k ZXJpbmdzLg0KDQpJbnN0cnVjdGlvbnM6DQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpUaGlzIGVycmF0dW0gaXMg Y3VycmVudGx5IHBvc3RlZCBhcyAiUmVwb3J0ZWQiLiBJZiBuZWNlc3NhcnksIHBsZWFzZSB1c2Ug IlJlcGx5IEFsbCIgdG8gZGlzY3VzcyB3aGV0aGVyIGl0IHNob3VsZCBiZSB2ZXJpZmllZCBvciBy ZWplY3RlZC4gV2hlbiBhIGRlY2lzaW9uIGlzIHJlYWNoZWQsIHRoZSB2ZXJpZnlpbmcgcGFydHkg Y2FuIGxvZyBpbiB0byBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIHN0YXR1cyBhbmQgZWRpdCB0aGUgcmVwb3J0LCBpZiBu ZWNlc3NhcnkuIA0KDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KUkZD ODc5MiAoZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRtb2QtYXJ0d29yay1mb2xkaW5nLTEyKQ0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NClRpdGxlICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgOiBIYW5kbGlu ZyBMb25nIExpbmVzIGluIENvbnRlbnQgb2YgSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnRzIGFuZCBSRkNzDQpQdWJs aWNhdGlvbiBEYXRlICAgIDogSnVuZSAyMDIwDQpBdXRob3IocykgICAgICAgICAgIDogSy4gV2F0 c2VuLCBFLiBBdWVyc3dhbGQsIEEuIEZhcnJlbCwgUS4gV3UNCkNhdGVnb3J5ICAgICAgICAgICAg OiBJTkZPUk1BVElPTkFMDQpTb3VyY2UgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDogTmV0d29yayBNb2RlbGluZw0K QXJlYSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA6IE9wZXJhdGlvbnMgYW5kIE1hbmFnZW1lbnQNClN0cmVhbSAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgOiBJRVRGDQpWZXJpZnlpbmcgUGFydHkgICAgIDogSUVTRw0K From nobody Fri Nov 19 05:24:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D73683A08CF for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 05:24:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kq8jaIe400ij for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 05:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw1.uni-kl.de (mailgw1.uni-kl.de [IPv6:2001:638:208:120::220]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B2EB3A08CD for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 05:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sushi.unix-ag.uni-kl.de (sushi.unix-ag.uni-kl.de [IPv6:2001:638:208:ef34:0:ff:fe00:65]) by mailgw1.uni-kl.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id 1AJDODMO158387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 19 Nov 2021 14:24:13 +0100 Received: from sushi.unix-ag.uni-kl.de (ip6-localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sushi.unix-ag.uni-kl.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4+deb7u1) with ESMTP id 1AJDODaJ013148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Nov 2021 14:24:13 +0100 Received: (from auerswal@localhost) by sushi.unix-ag.uni-kl.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id 1AJDODx6013147; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 14:24:13 +0100 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 14:24:13 +0100 From: Erik Auerswald To: Qin Wu Cc: RFC Errata System , "mt@lowentropy.net" , "kent+ietf@watsen.net" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20211119132413.GB12770@unix-ag.uni-kl.de> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Author: Erik Auerswald User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC8792 (6739) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:24:32 -0000 Hi all, the same kind of mistake happended in section 8.1.2, too. Best regards, Erik On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 03:22:09AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > Good catch, Martin, > Agree the text should be corrected. > > -Qin > -----邮件原件----- > 发件人: RFC Errata System [mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org] > 发送时间: 2021年11月18日 9:29 > 收件人: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > 抄送: mt@lowentropy.net; kent+ietf@watsen.net; auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de; adrian@olddog.co.uk; Qin Wu ; netmod@ietf.org > 主题: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC8792 (6739) > > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8792, "Handling Long Lines in Content of Internet-Drafts and RFCs". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6739 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Editorial > Reported by: Martin Thomson > > Section: 7.1.2 > > Original Text > ------------- > Exceptionally long lines MAY be folded multiple times. > > Corrected Text > -------------- > Exceptionally long lines MAY be folded multiple times. > > Notes > ----- > The "MAY" in this text lacks a bcp14 XML tag. This is apparent in the non-text renderings. > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC8792 (draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-12) > -------------------------------------- > Title : Handling Long Lines in Content of Internet-Drafts and RFCs > Publication Date : June 2020 > Author(s) : K. Watsen, E. Auerswald, A. Farrel, Q. Wu > Category : INFORMATIONAL > Source : Network Modeling > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Fri Nov 19 09:05:46 2021 Return-Path: <0100017d39291647-b509fd41-d756-4156-a442-dcb42a78eaf0-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD263A0891; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 09:05:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ALnrsp7Rbqe; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 09:05:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from a48-95.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-95.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8453C3A0894; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 09:05:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1637341534; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=NxW+UGMCsmn2GyLhTRjo3gPQsyAKdFm/vZJAERDdQYM=; b=DUPp0AvppTS3dbCTqxzDlsuqLBNO/fA/TPNaM/lnTQPxW4kT7z+Mm9GiNXEkInsU lEF/8WPxPRwT06wZ/IcKYj4SP80C4mMHh+xOch2J8zmH5hNkI94Yvhm0gLeAN6Ukr+0 CEbyTu+CYDuYfD3Jp99HVJJqtouFx6BJuy/oI/M8= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <20211119023905.E15A71FD3B@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:05:34 +0000 Cc: mt@lowentropy.net, Erik Auerswald , adrian@olddog.co.uk, Qin Wu , rfc-ed@rfc-editor.org, iesg@ietf.org, "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100017d39291647-b509fd41-d756-4156-a442-dcb42a78eaf0-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <20211119023905.E15A71FD3B@rfc-editor.org> To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.11.19-54.240.48.95 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Errata Verified] RFC8792 (6739) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:05:40 -0000 I do not think this Errata should've been verified because RFC 7991 says = that use of this tag is optional. 2.9. Marks text that are phrases defined in [BCP14] such as = "MUST", "SHOULD NOT", and so on. When shown in some of the output representations, the text in this element might be = highlighted. The use of this element is optional. I understand that there might be a consistency issue, but to take an RFC = from having zero errata to non-zero errata over this seems petty. FWIW, the authors did not have any elements in the original XML. = Any such tags found in the final RFC must=E2=80=99ve been added by a = copy editor. K. // as a contributor > On Nov 18, 2021, at 9:39 PM, RFC Errata System = wrote: >=20 > The following errata report has been verified for RFC8792, > "Handling Long Lines in Content of Internet-Drafts and RFCs".=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6739 >=20 > -------------------------------------- > Status: Verified > Type: Editorial >=20 > Reported by: Martin Thomson > Date Reported: 2021-11-18 > Verified by: RFC Editor =20 >=20 > Section: 7.1.2 >=20 > Original Text > ------------- > Exceptionally long lines MAY be folded multiple times. >=20 > Corrected Text > -------------- > Exceptionally long lines MAY be folded multiple times. >=20 > Notes > ----- > The "MAY" in this text lacks a bcp14 XML tag. This is apparent in the = non-text renderings. >=20 > --VERIFIER NOTES-- > This also applies to section 8.1.2 >=20 > -------------------------------------- > RFC8792 (draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-12) > -------------------------------------- > Title : Handling Long Lines in Content of = Internet-Drafts and RFCs > Publication Date : June 2020 > Author(s) : K. Watsen, E. Auerswald, A. Farrel, Q. Wu > Category : INFORMATIONAL > Source : Network Modeling > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF >=20 From nobody Fri Nov 19 18:51:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9B23A0A06; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 18:51:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D5vGUr0JUrYY; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 18:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA 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+0800 From: Qin Wu To: Kent Watsen , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" CC: "mt@lowentropy.net" , Erik Auerswald , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "rfc-ed@rfc-editor.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Errata Verified] RFC8792 (6739) Thread-Index: AdfduHWnArfTc1cjQJydqD0tWYNgWA== Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 02:51:07 +0000 Message-ID: <5cb28a341d9a45a38996c19d43f41b06@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.100.16] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Errata Verified] RFC8792 (6739) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 02:51:23 -0000 QWdyZWUgd2l0aCBLZW50J3MgYXNzZXNzbWVudCwgdGhlcmUgaXMgaW5jb25zaXN0ZW5jeSBpc3N1 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cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.21, xbe-aln-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Errata Verified] RFC8792 (6739) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 10:11:17 -0000 SGkgS2VudCwgUWluLA0KDQpOb3RlIHRoYXQgcHJvY2Vzc2luZyBmb3IgZWRpdG9yaWFsIGVycmF0 YSwgbGlrZSB0aGlzIG9uZSwgYXJlIG5vdyBnZW5lcmFsbHkgaGFuZGxlZCBkaXJlY3RseSBieSB0 aGUgUkZDIGVkaXRvciByYXRoZXIgdGhhbiB0aGUgQUQuDQoNCkkgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSB3aGVyZSB5 b3UgYXJlIGNvbWluZyBmcm9tLCBhbmQgZ2l2ZW4gdGhlIFJGQyA3OTkxIHRleHQsIEkgYWdyZWUg dGhhdCBzdHJpY3RseSB0aGlzIGlzIG5vdCBzdHJpY3RseSBhIG1pc3Rha2UsIGdpdmVuIGl0IGlz IGFsbG93ZWQuICBIb3dldmVyLCBJIGNhbiBzZWUgd2h5IE1hcnRpbiByYWlzZWQgdGhpcywgYW5k IGhhdmluZyB0aGUgQkNQIDE0IFhNTCB0YWdzIHVzZWQgY29uc2lzdGVudGx5IGluIHRoZSBkb2N1 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0403A07F5; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 02:46:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ao9hOtoGrUmQ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 02:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F3703A07E9; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 02:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a436.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.164.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4HyP7r3p2Cz2xLn; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 11:46:00 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <5cb28a341d9a45a38996c19d43f41b06@huawei.com> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 11:46:00 +0100 Cc: Kent Watsen , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Erik Auerswald , "netmod@ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "rfc-ed@rfc-editor.org" , "mt@lowentropy.net" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 659270760.165688-d6fdf0a76cdc301a12f82c577c963924 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <800F4EB0-B1CE-4C4C-8C90-00359BB55633@tzi.org> References: <5cb28a341d9a45a38996c19d43f41b06@huawei.com> To: Qin Wu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Errata Verified] RFC8792 (6739) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 10:46:09 -0000 On 2021-11-20, at 03:51, Qin Wu wrote: >=20 > inconsistency issues on source xml file introduced not by author of = this RFC, I think the underlying issue here is that verified Errata are generally = perceived as quality feedback for the authors (visible to everyone), but = in this case it wasn=E2=80=99t the authors that made the mistake. =20 This is of course not solvable, as blame assignment is not one of the = functions of the errata reporting system, but we can=E2=80=99t prevent = that it will be perceived as such. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Nov 22 04:08:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A1223A089B for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 04:08:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IrLAgo2Lr8CV for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 04:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C6443A0897 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 04:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.207]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HyQxw5V2rz6GDH1 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 20:07:32 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepemm000017.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.46) by fraeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 13:07:56 +0100 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.234) by kwepemm000017.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 20:07:54 +0800 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) by kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.020; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 20:07:54 +0800 From: "maqiufang (A)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Must offline-validation of alone be valid? Thread-Index: AdffkR5mw0pyFtGVS9uFCu3u8tPNZA== Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:07:54 +0000 Message-ID: <0df9454875b54804b42ec2f5cc6b151f@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.100.87] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0df9454875b54804b42ec2f5cc6b151fhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Must offline-validation of alone be valid? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:08:07 -0000 --_000_0df9454875b54804b42ec2f5cc6b151fhuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all Regarding the presentation of "system-defined configuration(draft-ma-netmod= -with-system)" in IETF 112, I would like to initiate a separate thread to d= iscuss "MUST offline-validation of alone be valid". This is unknown if any RFC requires offline validation of . Then t= he choices become: * Offline validation of alone is NOT required * Servers internally validate via validating * Offline validation of alone IS required * Options: * Clients MUST copy/paste any referenced system configuration = into , even though it goes against our objective of avoiding-copy = when possible. * Defer work to be a YANG-next effort. Any thoughts on this? Best Regards, Qiufang Ma --_000_0df9454875b54804b42ec2f5cc6b151fhuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, all

Regarding the presentation of “system-defined configuration(= draft-ma-netmod-with-system)” in IETF 112, I would like to initiate a= separate thread to discuss “MUST offline-validation of <running> alone be valid”.

This is unknown if any RFC requires offline validation of <runn= ing>. Then the choices become:

    • Offline validation of <running> alone is NOT required
      • Servers internally validate <running> via validating <intended>=
    • Offline validation of <running> alone IS required
      • Options:
        1. Clients MUST copy/paste any referenced system configuration into <r= unning>, even though it goes against our objective of avoiding-copy when=  possible.
        2. Defer work to be a YANG-next effort.

Any thoughts on this?

 

Best Regards,

Qiufang Ma

--_000_0df9454875b54804b42ec2f5cc6b151fhuaweicom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 22 04:11:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C46C83A0894 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 04:11:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4GadsKjVpJRk for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 04:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D624C3A088A for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 04:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.206]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HyR123HjJz67gXS for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 20:10:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepemm000020.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.93) by fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 13:11:10 +0100 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.234) by kwepemm000020.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.93) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 20:11:09 +0800 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) by kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.020; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 20:11:09 +0800 From: "maqiufang (A)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Should the "with-origin" parameter be supported for ? Thread-Index: AdffkIzQgrflx2pfQFG03vlrV2MIPQ== Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:11:09 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.100.87] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_b3c611a7f038476cba7138f8fa1e324chuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Should the "with-origin" parameter be supported for ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:11:18 -0000 --_000_b3c611a7f038476cba7138f8fa1e324chuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all In the "system-defined configuration(draft-ma-netmod-with-system)" work, an= optional datastore named "system" is introduced to hold non-deletable syst= em configurations. We define that if a server implements , MUST be merged i= nto . So there is the cases that the clients can fetch and contains merged . The question is should we extend the "with-origin" parameter to support ? The possible considerations for following two choices: * "with-origin" parameter should be supported for * It may be helpful for a client to fetch to understan= d a certain data node is from or from * There is no need for to support "with-origin" * We already have to provide the origin for a parti= cular data node Any thoughts on this? Best Regards, Qiufang Ma --_000_b3c611a7f038476cba7138f8fa1e324chuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, all

 

In the “system-defined configuration(draft= -ma-netmod-with-system)” work, an optional datastore named “sys= tem” is introduced to hold non-deletable system configurations.

We define that if a server implements <intend= ed>, <system> MUST be merged into <intended>.  So there= is the cases that the clients can fetch <intended> and <intended&= gt; contains merged <system>.

The question is should we extend the “with= -origin” parameter to support <intended>? The possible consider= ations for following two choices:

    • “with-origin” parameter should be supported for <intende= d>
      • It may be helpful for a client to fetch <intended> to understand = a certain data node is from <running> or from <intended>
    • There is no need for <intended> to support “with-originR= 21;
      • We already have <operational> to provide the origin for a particu= lar data node

Any thoughts on this?

 

 

Best Regards,

Qiufang Ma

 

--_000_b3c611a7f038476cba7138f8fa1e324chuaweicom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 22 04:12:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EA63A0894 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 04:12:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L82jGlKUt21r for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 04:12:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A391C3A088A for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 04:12:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.201]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HyR343Ywcz6GDJS for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 20:12:00 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepemm000017.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.46) by fraeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2308.20; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 13:12:24 +0100 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.234) by kwepemm000017.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 20:12:22 +0800 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) by kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.020; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 20:12:22 +0800 From: "maqiufang (A)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] "immutable" flag Thread-Index: AdffmIO2eQWZH1bVQgKuM6kNhPhaAA== Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:12:22 +0000 Message-ID: <79459f02f6ea4a87bea56edc9772daa6@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.100.87] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_79459f02f6ea4a87bea56edc9772daa6huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] "immutable" flag X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:12:30 -0000 --_000_79459f02f6ea4a87bea56edc9772daa6huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all There are some system configuration which may not be modifiable for clients= (e.g., interface "name" and "type"). Should we define an "immutable" flag t= o indicate to the clients which system configuration is read-only or which = is not? The server will return an error if the clients attempt to configure a value= for a system defined data node with an "immutable" flag. My assumption is that this annotation should be carried only when the clien= ts retrieve with "with-system" parameter to get a merged view. Suggestions, comments and concerns about this issue? Best Regards, Qiufang Ma --_000_79459f02f6ea4a87bea56edc9772daa6huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, all

 

There are some system configuration which may no= t be modifiable for clients(e.g., interface “name” and “t= ype”). Should we define an “immutable” flag to indicate t= o the clients which system configuration is read-only or which is not?=

 

The server will return an error if the clients a= ttempt to configure a value for a system defined data node with an “i= mmutable” flag.

 

My assumption is that this annotation should be = carried only when the clients retrieve <running> with “with-sys= tem” parameter to get  a merged view.

 

Suggestions, comments and concerns about this is= sue?

 

 

Best Regards,

Qiufang Ma

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boundary="_000_DM6PR08MB5084565B05F7F339C752A7619B9F9DM6PR08MB5084namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR08MB5084.namprd08.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: aa22c6e2-712a-4f67-0d5e-08d9adf7ee2c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Nov 2021 20:37:41.3537 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: qLrc8YMPsHc7BqsrJk7ip6ahhvFaD2AX0WbgAfxThKrzRY4TtivsH/ZMz0BAB1L6j4doQtfxKBF9k1qyv55DKA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR08MB5083 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG Versioning call Nov 23: Agenda & Topics X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 20:37:48 -0000 --_000_DM6PR08MB5084565B05F7F339C752A7619B9F9DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Here are the planned key discussion topics for the weekly YANG Versioning c= all tomorrow: a) Overlapping module advertisements With the proposed YANG packages solution, there would be one more place whe= re a server would list the set of modules it implements (there are already = 4). Can we somehow reduce the duplication ? https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/69 https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/67 b) review text authors provide for open packages issues listed above. c) continue with these issues: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/74 https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/76 Jason ---------------------------------------------- Weekly webex call details: Meeting number (access code): 161 096 5630 Meeting password: semver? Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, November 16, 2021 from 9:00 AM to 1= 0:00 AM, (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) 9:00 AM | (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) | 1 hr https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dme2c6491ebcc37b8127c1244d244d2754 Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only) +1-650-479-3208,,1610965630## Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Rgds, Jason --_000_DM6PR08MB5084565B05F7F339C752A7619B9F9DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

Here are the planned key discussion topics for the w= eekly YANG Versioning call tomorrow:

 

a) Overlapping module advertisements

With the proposed YANG packages solution, there woul= d be one more place where a server would list the set of modules it impleme= nts (there are already 4).  Can we somehow reduce the duplication ?

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/69

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/67

 

b) review text authors provide for open packages iss= ues listed above.

 

c) continue with these issues:

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/74

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/76

 

Jason

 

----------------------------------------------<= /o:p>

Weekly webex call details:

 

Meeting number (access code): 161 096 5630

Meeting password: semver?

 

Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, November 16,= 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)

9:00 AM  |  (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US &= amp; Canada)  |  1 hr

 

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID= =3Dme2c6491ebcc37b8127c1244d244d2754

Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only)

+1-650-479-3208,,1610965630## Call-in toll number (U= S/Canada)

 

Rgds,

Jason

--_000_DM6PR08MB5084565B05F7F339C752A7619B9F9DM6PR08MB5084namp_-- From nobody Mon Nov 22 18:00:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276803A0C6D; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 18:00:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DMkiC9AmJ7f0; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 18:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C69843A0C6C; 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Tue, 23 Nov 2021 03:57:56 +0100 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.234) by kwepemm000018.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.4) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 10:57:54 +0800 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) by kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.020; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 10:57:54 +0800 From: "maqiufang (A)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? Thread-Index: AdffkR5sVtMRYIzeTpCisQ2IqIgmxw== Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 02:57:54 +0000 Message-ID: <691d9e3445a546608166ab3dbda96137@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.100.87] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_691d9e3445a546608166ab3dbda96137huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 02:58:04 -0000 --_000_691d9e3445a546608166ab3dbda96137huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all There is still another issue which is about origin metadata annotation: sho= uld the origin=3D"system" be required for system configurations copied/past= ed into ? Currently any system configuration explicitly declared in in orde= r to configure its descendant nodes or maintain offline-valid wil= l show up in with origin=3Dintended. The question behind this issue is whether we want a copied/pasted system de= fined data node to override and take precedence over . The choices and some considerations of this issue received so far: o Origin=3Dsystem IS required for system configuration copied/pasted int= o ? I believe that "system" reflects the most accurate source in this case. = And only in this way, a server can allow a read-only system configuration t= o be declared in (e.g., in order to valid ) by the client= s. ? The challenge for this choice is on the server side. It MUST be able to = recognize a particular data node which explicitly defined in is a= ctually a mirror of what is in . o Origin=3Dsystem is NOT required for system configuration copied/pasted= into ? Good consistency. For all configurations explicitly defined in = , if they appear in , the origin value is "intended" with no e= xceptions. o Define a system-mode which is similar to with-defaults basic mode and = allow a server to advertise a particular behavior ? Does it mean we could get the Pros from both choices? Any other thoughts? --_000_691d9e3445a546608166ab3dbda96137huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, all

 

There is still another issue which is about orig= in metadata annotation: should the origin=3D”system” be require= d for system configurations copied/pasted into <running>?<= /span>

 

Currently any system configuration explicitly de= clared in <running> in order to configure its descendant nodes or mai= ntain <running> offline-valid will show up in <operational> with origin=3Dintended.

The question behind this issue is whether we wan= t a copied/pasted system defined data node to override and take precedence = over <system>.

 

The choices and some considerations of this issu= e received so far:

o    Origin=3Dsystem IS requ= ired for system configuration copied/pasted into <running>=

§  I believe that “s= ystem” reflects the most accurate source in this case. And only in th= is way, a server can allow a read-only system configuration to be declared in <running>(e.g., in order to valid <running>)= by the clients.

§  The challenge for this = choice is on the server side. It MUST be able to recognize a particular dat= a node which explicitly defined in <running> is actually a mirror of what is in <system>.

o    Origin=3Dsystem is NOT = required for system configuration copied/pasted into <running>

§  Good consistency. For a= ll configurations explicitly defined in <running>, if they appear in = <operational>, the origin value is “intended” with no exceptions.

o    Define a system-mode wh= ich is similar to with-defaults basic mode and allow a server to advertise = a particular behavior

§  Does it mean we could g= et the Pros from both choices?

Any other thoughts?

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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 07:11:57 -0000 Do we mark config copied from stackexchange as origin='stackexchange'? If joe pastes config into running, then its joe's config. /js On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 02:57:54AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > Hi, all > > There is still another issue which is about origin metadata annotation: should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? > > Currently any system configuration explicitly declared in in order to configure its descendant nodes or maintain offline-valid will show up in with origin=intended. > The question behind this issue is whether we want a copied/pasted system defined data node to override and take precedence over . > > The choices and some considerations of this issue received so far: > o Origin=system IS required for system configuration copied/pasted into > ? I believe that "system" reflects the most accurate source in this case. And only in this way, a server can allow a read-only system configuration to be declared in (e.g., in order to valid ) by the clients. > ? The challenge for this choice is on the server side. It MUST be able to recognize a particular data node which explicitly defined in is actually a mirror of what is in . > o Origin=system is NOT required for system configuration copied/pasted into > ? Good consistency. For all configurations explicitly defined in , if they appear in , the origin value is "intended" with no exceptions. > o Define a system-mode which is similar to with-defaults basic mode and allow a server to advertise a particular behavior > ? Does it mean we could get the Pros from both choices? > Any other thoughts? > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Nov 22 23:39:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D04C3A0975 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 23:39:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=J3YZRStC; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=dzNDOw+f Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9AQDhNX5m3mu for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 23:38:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88DB83A08AF for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 23:38:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D133200F3B; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 02:38:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 23 Nov 2021 02:38:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh= bSff8MqZYDSlWQZ2wPpVp/0IZ2ine10joYDM2iZTE6I=; b=J3YZRStC/2TyjO4M IXcmmlquR6lPZV2I1+za78ZEPqZYvAFnntsXx5ShzgSass+R8EySzS1K6/oNpmpa +eWT6e2RDCEdcIcp51Aa9Ofjf7r9aWjcWVrBdiO2SGVwGRbwsH24icrXaUpTDtdx CW77sGMxg4PXzAA9kDMc1qV/L+eFNLtmbEW4OTq4nTdsDQyUM+ZjKduMeSdY51k7 VPKhAPkYpkZuWd//yHUlS8Rn3w8T44SAe5fox2AfXrh567t4BRnFf+2egUeYkyE/ h4Sx7xKF63Jc6bX/n4d+07thzxZKUtnV11a6rsvA0n7g9HOnwUfZhD50LTSYp2eZ bXBt1w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=bSff8MqZYDSlWQZ2wPpVp/0IZ2ine10joYDM2iZTE 6I=; b=dzNDOw+fD8fwikbQ1kF+5YJPMOGpYKyeF0o6Ch21TtfSn0KeTmslfUFq2 EygGtcMIft8isazNuzRhuMnPe+SfGimUyxESkHwUfQGhFI83EoNbDUzf2APBB2Ft 7bz82yZtmvtKxZtDLi3OzLEVDQyqSWJJQJ/hNpXoPttbb9pWxM864hoNpF0o5QV1 BP/58vAXsVda+zKntQnvHyig3fzvij/ojoXiuKPPPAeHCthoJHDSSJAbjd9mgWU+ /u9roH0GGc/hUIeqUdIRV1fcgHfm6peP6iNaLGVmXJG8jwzHOip9TKaLlOLMtAGd 3BLfs/5XTNLzpHwFp3DDVxnRPe/ug== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddrgeehgddutdegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpeffkffvuffhjghfofggtgfgsehtje ertdertddvnecuhfhrohhmpeforghrthhinhcuuehjnphrkhhluhhnugcuoehmsghjodhi vghtfhesgeeiieekrdhsvgeqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnheptdeggfdtuddujeekleevvd eivdevheeigeeffeetfefgfeefkeehffdvfeevfffgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgep tdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhgsjhdoihgvthhfseegieeikedrshgv X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 02:38:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 08:38:50 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20211123.083850.1266325188190711456.id@4668.se> To: maqiufang1=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: <691d9e3445a546608166ab3dbda96137@huawei.com> References: <691d9e3445a546608166ab3dbda96137@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 07:39:01 -0000 Hi, "maqiufang \(A\)" wrote: > Hi, all > > There is still another issue which is about origin metadata > annotation: should the origin="system" be required for system > configurations copied/pasted into ? I think the question is "if a node is present both in and in , which origin does it have in "? (NOTE: it doesn't matter if the value was "copy & pasted" from or entered in some other way.) Obviously, if a leaf node is present in both, but its value differ, the origin must indicate which datastore had precedence. But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or a leaf with the same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be used. I think it would be ok to use "system" in this case. (But also perhaps it doesn't matter much). > Currently any system configuration explicitly declared in in > order to configure its descendant nodes or maintain > offline-valid will show up in with origin=intended. > The question behind this issue is whether we want a copied/pasted > system defined data node to override and take precedence over > . > > The choices and some considerations of this issue received so far: > o Origin=system IS required for system configuration copied/pasted > into > ? I believe that "system" reflects the most accurate source in this > case. And only in this way, a server can allow a read-only system > configuration to be declared in (e.g., in order to valid > ) by the clients. What do you mean with "a read-only system configuration [...] be declared in "? is a separate datastore that clients can read, right? /martin > ? The challenge for this choice is on the server side. It MUST be > able to recognize a particular data node which explicitly defined in > is actually a mirror of what is in . > o Origin=system is NOT required for system configuration copied/pasted > into > ? Good consistency. For all configurations explicitly defined in > , if they appear in , the origin value is > "intended" with no exceptions. > o Define a system-mode which is similar to with-defaults basic mode > and allow a server to advertise a particular behavior > ? Does it mean we could get the Pros from both choices? > Any other thoughts? From nobody Tue Nov 23 01:59:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FA5E3A0C49 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 01:59:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gi1ruCIPMS8i for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 01:59:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41FB03A07A0 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 01:59:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.61.197.191] (unknown [173.38.220.38]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 656871AE0115; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 10:59:19 +0100 (CET) From: Jan Lindblad Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4F3F76BE-9201-4B85-BD38-3244A742C280" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 10:59:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: <0df9454875b54804b42ec2f5cc6b151f@huawei.com> Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: "maqiufang (A)" References: <0df9454875b54804b42ec2f5cc6b151f@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Must offline-validation of alone be valid? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:59:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4F3F76BE-9201-4B85-BD38-3244A742C280 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Qiufang, > Regarding the presentation of =E2=80=9Csystem-defined = configuration(draft-ma-netmod-with-system)=E2=80=9D in IETF 112, I would = like to initiate a separate thread to discuss =E2=80=9CMUST = offline-validation of alone be valid=E2=80=9D. Thank you for bringing this up again. > This is unknown if any RFC requires offline validation of . I do not consider this unknown. RFC 7950 is quite clear on the subject, = with numerous statements about configuration validity that are = incompatible with the current draft text. The most obvious contradiction = is the last paragraph of section 8.1, which consists of a single = sentence: The running configuration datastore MUST always be valid. If you read the entire section, there will be no doubt that "valid" is = defined clearly and quite technically with what conditions must hold = true. The current draft is not adhering to these principles. One = concrete example of such a technical definition can be found in section = 6.4.1: 6.4.1 . = XPath Context o If the XPath expression is defined in a substatement to a data node that represents configuration, the accessible tree is the data in the datastore where the context node exists. The root node has all top-level configuration data nodes in all modules as children. My conclusion is that the draft text needs to be changed to stay within = the bounds of RFC 7950. > Then the choices become: > Offline validation of alone is NOT required > Servers internally validate via validating > Offline validation of alone IS required > Options: > Clients MUST copy/paste any referenced system configuration into = , even though it goes against our objective of avoiding-copy = when possible. > Defer work to be a YANG-next effort. > Any thoughts on this? The possibility to reason about and compute configuration changes = without involving the server is a key principle of the entire YANG = project. By declaring the complete interface in a machine readable way, = orchestration clients can do things that were note possible in the past. = The effect of the current draft text is to remove that possibility. With some quite reasonable changes, however, I think the goals of the = draft can be accomplished in ways that are compatible with RFC 7950. I = have discussed these changes with you, so you know I have in mind. My = opinion therefore is that validation without the involvement of the = server is required, regardless of the options above. Having said that, I = think there are more and better options than option 1 and 2 above. Best Regards, /jan --Apple-Mail=_4F3F76BE-9201-4B85-BD38-3244A742C280 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Qiufang,

Regarding the presentation of =E2=80=9Csystem-defined = configuration(draft-ma-netmod-with-system)=E2=80=9D in IETF 112, I would = like to initiate a separate thread to discuss =E2=80=9CMUST = offline-validation of <running> alone be = valid=E2=80=9D.

Thank you for bringing this up again.

This is unknown if any RFC requires offline = validation of <running>.

I do not consider this unknown. RFC 7950 is quite = clear on the subject, with numerous statements about configuration = validity that are incompatible with the current draft text. The most = obvious contradiction is the last paragraph of section 8.1, which = consists of a single sentence:

   The =
running configuration datastore MUST always be valid.

If you read the = entire section, there will be no doubt that "valid" is defined clearly = and quite technically with what conditions must hold true. The current = draft is not adhering to these principles. One concrete example of such = a technical definition can be found in section 6.4.1:

6.4.1=
.  XPath Context


   o  If the XPath expression is =
defined in a substatement to a data
      node that represents configuration, the accessible tree is the
      data in the datastore where the context node exists.  The root
      node has all top-level configuration data nodes in all modules as
      children.

My conclusion = is that the draft text needs to be changed to stay within the bounds of = RFC 7950.

Then the choices = become:
    • Offline validation of = <running> alone is NOT required
      • Servers internally = validate <running> via validating <intended>
    • Offline validation of <running> alone IS = required
      • Options:
        1. Clients MUST copy/paste any = referenced system configuration into <running>, even though = it goes against our objective of avoiding-copy when possible.
        2. Defer work to be a YANG-next effort.
Any thoughts on = this?

The = possibility to reason about and compute configuration changes without = involving the server is a key principle of the entire YANG project. By = declaring the complete interface in a machine readable way, = orchestration clients can do things that were note possible in the past. = The effect of the current draft text is to remove that = possibility.

With some quite = reasonable changes, however, I think the goals of the draft can be = accomplished in ways that are compatible with RFC 7950. I have discussed = these changes with you, so you know I have in mind. My opinion therefore = is that validation without the involvement of the server is required, = regardless of the options above. Having said that, I think there are = more and better options than option 1 and 2 above.

Best Regards,
/jan

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PiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPkJl c3QgUmVnYXJkcyw8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29O b3JtYWwiPi9qYW48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29O b3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9k aXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_VI1PR07MB550191DA7C787DD4E344989791609VI1PR07MB5501eurp_-- From nobody Tue Nov 23 09:56:45 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F3313A07B0 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:56:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jesidLCJ81zr for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2A83A07AC for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:56:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.61.197.191] (unknown [173.38.220.38]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EE3BB1AE0115; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:56:35 +0100 (CET) From: Jan Lindblad Message-Id: <7511E143-A08F-4089-89CB-17F74C2E9CCE@tail-f.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B1FC378A-5111-41AF-A3D1-7EC704BB18BE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:56:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: "maqiufang (A)" , "netmod@ietf.org" To: "Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" References: <0df9454875b54804b42ec2f5cc6b151f@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Must offline-validation of alone be valid? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 17:56:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B1FC378A-5111-41AF-A3D1-7EC704BB18BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Sergio, Qiufang, > Hi Jan, > You correctly wrote: > =20 > Then the choices become: > Offline validation of alone is NOT required > Servers internally validate via validating > =20 > SB> but in fact this is what declared, for my understanding, in RFC = 8342, for which =E2=80=9Cvalidation=E2=80=9D is done on =E2=80=9Cintended=E2= =80=9D by the server , as also shown in figure 2 of the RFC. Is it = needed to change also RFC? According to RFC 8342, *both* running and intended have to be valid at = all times. Section 5.1.3 says: 5.1.3 . = The Running Configuration Datastore () ... However, MUST always be a valid configuration data tree, as defined in Section=C2=A08.1 of [RFC7950] = . Section 8.1 of RFC 7950 was the section I referred to in my previous = comment. Section 5.1.4 says: 5.1.4 . = The Intended Configuration Datastore () ... is tightly coupled to . Whenever data is written to , the server MUST also immediately update and validate . =20 In my judgement, changing the fundaments of RFC 7950 and 8342 is not = going to happen any time soon (for good reason), and there are other = (better) options. > Offline validation of alone IS required > Options: > Clients MUST copy/paste any referenced system configuration into = , even though it goes against our objective of avoiding-copy = when possible. > Defer work to be a YANG-next effort. In order to move forward, I would propose working out some more options = in this list. I have suggested a few to the authors that I think are = better than the two above, but I will leave it to the authors make the = call for what they want to bring up for discussion. Best Regards, /jan --Apple-Mail=_B1FC378A-5111-41AF-A3D1-7EC704BB18BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Sergio, Qiufang,

Hi Jan,
You correctly wrote:
 
Then = the choices become:
    • Offline = validation of <running> alone is NOT required
      • Servers internally validate <running> via = validating <intended>
      •  
SB> but in fact this is what declared, for my = understanding, in RFC 8342, for which =E2=80=9Cvalidation=E2=80=9D is = done on =E2=80=9Cintended=E2=80=9D by the server , as also shown in = figure 2 of the RFC. Is it needed to change also = RFC?

According to RFC 8342, *both* running and intended = have to be valid at all times. Section 5.1.3 says:

5.1.3=
.  The Running Configuration Datastore (<running>)

...
                                 =
                        However,
   <running> MUST always be a valid configuration data tree, as =
defined
   in Section 8.1 of [RFC7950].

Section 8.1 of RFC 7950 was the section = I referred to in my previous comment. Section 5.1.4 says:

5.1.4=
.  The Intended Configuration Datastore (<intended>)

...
   <intended> is tightly =
coupled to <running>.  Whenever data is written
   to <running>, the server MUST also immediately update and =
validate
   <intended>.
 
In my judgement, = changing the fundaments of RFC 7950 and 8342 is not going to happen any = time soon (for good reason), and there are other (better) = options.

    • Offline validation of <running> alone IS = required
      • Options:
        1. Clients MUST copy/paste = any referenced system configuration into <running>, even = though it goes against our objective of avoiding-copy = when possible.
        2. Defer work to be a = YANG-next = effort.

In order to move forward, I would propose working = out some more options in this list. I have suggested a few to the = authors that I think are better than the two above, but I will leave it = to the authors make the call for what they want to bring up for = discussion.

Best = Regards,
/jan

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boundary="_000_DM6PR08MB5084741AB05A4E69925119829B609DM6PR08MB5084namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR08MB5084.namprd08.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5fe5895e-1839-44be-1ecc-08d9aead93f8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Nov 2021 18:17:58.4013 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: EIKxQKVD9nNVKY/E/ErQQSI9/SYAeEMbD5skxniNi9FoJqn67a3a7kObYut2xQdf3zV7ytUZk+qthdCjrNjJaw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR08MB5354 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-23 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:18:06 -0000 --_000_DM6PR08MB5084741AB05A4E69925119829B609DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-23 Today we discussed Jan's alternative approach for how Packages and YANG Lib= rary fit together. We agreed we need further discussion (target =3D 2 weeks from now, Dec 7 ca= ll). Jan will try to give an example of an instance data document for the new pr= oposal. Jan & Jason (+ input from Rob) will try to put together a comparison of cli= ent & server exchange & logic for the new proposal vs the current packages = draft. Rob proposed we look at 2 scenarios: 1) client & server both know & understand the top level package(s) 2) client doesn't understand the top package(s) and needs to dig further in= to the package contents Topics for next meeting: - review Balazs response for Issue #65 (revision label scheme for Packages) - review Jason's text for Issue #84 (motivation for the _COMPAT extension o= n YANG Semver) - review text authors provide for other open packages issues - continue with these issues: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/74 https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/76 - in 2 weeks (Dec 7) we'll continue with the Packages & Library discussion Jason ---------------------------------------------- Weekly webex call details: Meeting number (access code): 161 096 5630 Meeting password: semver? Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, November 16, 2021 from 9:00 AM to 1= 0:00 AM, (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) 9:00 AM | (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) | 1 hr https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dme2c6491ebcc37b8127c1244d244d2754 Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only) +1-650-479-3208,,1610965630## Call-in toll number (US/Canada) --_000_DM6PR08MB5084741AB05A4E69925119829B609DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-23

 

Today we discussed Jan's alternative approach for ho= w Packages and YANG Library fit together.

 

We agreed we need further discussion (target =3D 2 w= eeks from now, Dec 7 call).

 

Jan will try to give an example of an instance data = document for the new proposal.

 

Jan & Jason (+ input from Rob) will try to put t= ogether a comparison of client & server exchange & logic for the ne= w proposal vs the current packages draft.  Rob proposed we look at 2 s= cenarios:

1) client & server both know & understand th= e top level package(s)

2) client doesn't understand the top package(s) and = needs to dig further into the package contents

 

Topics for next meeting:

- review Balazs response for Issue #65 (revision lab= el scheme for Packages)

- review Jason's text for Issue #84 (motivation for = the _COMPAT extension on YANG Semver)

- review text authors provide for other open package= s issues

- continue with these issues:

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/74

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/76

- in 2 weeks (Dec 7) we'll continue with the Package= s & Library discussion

 

Jason

 

----------------------------------------------<= /o:p>

Weekly webex call details:

 

Meeting number (access code): 161 096 5630

Meeting password: semver?

 

Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, November 16,= 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)

9:00 AM  |  (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US &= amp; Canada)  |  1 hr

 

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID= =3Dme2c6491ebcc37b8127c1244d244d2754

Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only)

+1-650-479-3208,,1610965630## Call-in toll number (U= S/Canada)

--_000_DM6PR08MB5084741AB05A4E69925119829B609DM6PR08MB5084namp_-- From nobody Tue Nov 23 19:21:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED723A0881 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 19:21:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YhuUvHcRHJcO for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 19:21:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3079D3A08D0 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 19:21:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml705-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.200]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HzR5H0mKwz67ycJ for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 11:17:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepemm600020.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.147) by fraeml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.54) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2308.20; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 04:21:16 +0100 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.234) by kwepemm600020.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 11:21:14 +0800 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) by kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.020; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 11:21:14 +0800 From: "maqiufang (A)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? Thread-Index: AdffkR5sVtMRYIzeTpCisQ2IqIgmxwAaPt4AADhgKLA= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 03:21:14 +0000 Message-ID: <1ab9c19f3f7c4126b715d2e389eafdaf@huawei.com> References: <691d9e3445a546608166ab3dbda96137@huawei.com> <20211123.083850.1266325188190711456.id@4668.se> In-Reply-To: <20211123.083850.1266325188190711456.id@4668.se> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.100.87] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 03:21:25 -0000 Hi, Martin, Please see my reply inline. -----Original Message----- From: Martin Bj=F6rklund [mailto:mbj+ietf@4668.se]=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2021 3:39 PM To: maqiufang (A) Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system" be required for system c= onfigurations copied/pasted into ? Hi, "maqiufang \(A\)" wrote: > Hi, all >=20 > There is still another issue which is about origin metadata > annotation: should the origin=3D"system" be required for system=20 > configurations copied/pasted into ? I think the question is "if a node is present both in and in , which origin does it have in "? (NOTE: it doesn't matter if the value was "copy & pasted" from or = entered in some other way.) [Qiufang Ma] Noted, thanks. Obviously, if a leaf node is present in both, but its value differ, the ori= gin must indicate which datastore had precedence. [Qiufang Ma] Yes, exactly. If a client tries to modify a system-defined dat= a node(with a different value), what has been defined in should = take precedence over system predefined nodes if the system configuration is= modifiable. Thus the origin should be indicated as "intended", there is no= question about that.=20 But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or a leaf with th= e same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be used. = I think it would be ok to use "system" in this case. (But also perhaps it doesn't matter much). [Qiufang Ma] "Copy&paste" just refers to this case(a leaf with a same value= or an ancestor node like "interface"). IMO, it should not be "intended" if= the system configuration is non-modifiable(e.g., interface type or name). > Currently any system configuration explicitly declared in in=20 > order to configure its descendant nodes or maintain =20 > offline-valid will show up in with origin=3Dintended. > The question behind this issue is whether we want a copied/pasted=20 > system defined data node to override and take precedence over=20 > . >=20 > The choices and some considerations of this issue received so far: > o Origin=3Dsystem IS required for system configuration copied/pasted=20 > into ? I believe that "system" reflects the most accurate=20 > source in this case. And only in this way, a server can allow a=20 > read-only system configuration to be declared in (e.g., in=20 > order to valid > ) by the clients. What do you mean with "a read-only system configuration [...] be declared i= n "? is a separate datastore that clients can read, righ= t? [Qiufang Ma] Yes, it's related to an ongoing work (https://datatracker.ietf= .org/doc/html/draft-ma-netmod-with-system-00.txt). There is a read-only "sy= stem" datastore which contains system configuration non-modifiable or not. I think that non-modifiable system configuration should be allowed to write= into (with a same value), as far as the origin is "system". Writi= ng a different value for non-modifiable system config in should r= eturn an error. Best Regards, Qiufang Ma /martin > ? The challenge for this choice is on the server side. It MUST be=20 > able to recognize a particular data node which explicitly defined in=20 > is actually a mirror of what is in . > o Origin=3Dsystem is NOT required for system configuration copied/pasted= =20 > into ? Good consistency. For all configurations explicitly=20 > defined in , if they appear in , the origin=20 > value is "intended" with no exceptions. > o Define a system-mode which is similar to with-defaults basic mode=20 > and allow a server to advertise a particular behavior ? Does it mean=20 > we could get the Pros from both choices? > Any other thoughts? 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--_000_ea9521ad6f384b139d493321dcbe3d95huaweicom_-- From nobody Wed Nov 24 00:13:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3CC03A0C00 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 00:13:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xi2DL0eZgIQc for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 00:13:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68E3F3A0CA0 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 00:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E31181408CF for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 09:13:42 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1637741623; bh=YsVMCUijM3C1wGvxlULmNWdbvfmI5Vl3FlPPm4XGc+Q=; h=From:To:Date; b=VreHat9gVhUGcmqIRTfXGCG3oqIMxVVRiVqohZnT/hvIm0+4xJa4ItMTBIDkiQ0t5 4yIQfj9yrTu0MmWDVxn7RuIR3h+k+FVYOlWo2HoJKAiIP2Cwdhh/NaXvPhl1hw6kzt eYgQEZTsd3imKkGBE6VNYf9yfJhqL4XNQrYiDlgI= From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 09:13:42 +0100 Message-ID: <87o86ahsy1.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.4 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 08:13:57 -0000 Hi, I tried to generalize the approach of RFC 9108 and develop XSLT stylesheets for generating YANG modules directly from IANA registries. The results are in this GitHub project: https://github.com/llhotka/iana-yang So far I have processed 22 registries - most of them are related to DNS, but I also tried to include a few from other areas. After cloning the project, all YANG modules can be generated by running "make" in the top-level directory. Adding a new registry is usually quite simple, although some hide nasty surprises such as duplicate entries. Also, in most cases it is quite clear how to do the translation, but sometimes input from domain experts might be needed. I can see two immediate advantages of this approach: * There is a single source of truth - the registry itself; IANA needn't maintain the YANG module separately. * The initial revision of a registry-based YANG module needn't be published in an RFC that is not intended to be updated. There are concerns that people may extract such a module from the RFC long after it becomes obsolete. Please let me know what you think about this. Thanks, Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Nov 24 01:25:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A63073A0D03 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 01:25:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZKLAjdvf7jUx for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 01:25:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am5eur03on0608.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe08::608]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 603A63A0CF4 for ; 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 09:25:23 -0000 On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or a leaf with the same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be used. I think it would be ok to use "system" in this case. For me, is explicit config and hence it has precedence. The precedence must be a function of how the datastores related, it should not depend on which values a config leaf has. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 24 02:17:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1393A0D37 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 02:17:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=ArQTWhVU; 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Wed, 24 Nov 2021 10:16:53 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "maqiufang (A)" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 10:17:02 -0000 +1 to Juergen's comment. // As a contributor. -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lde= r Sent: 24 November 2021 09:25 To: maqiufang (A) Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system" be required for system c= onfigurations copied/pasted into ? On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: >=20 > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or a leaf with = the same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be used.= I think it would be ok to use "system" in this case. For me, is explicit config and hence it has precedence. The precedence must be a function of how the datastores related, it should not depend on which values a config leaf has. /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 24 02:43:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C6FF3A0D51 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 02:43:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=fZvMySmK; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=jPE/61LQ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ByJ93rGOn4zc for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 02:43:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DE0B3A0C8C for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 02:43:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E685C00DC; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 05:43:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 24 Nov 2021 05:43:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh= BpyG2JL1oQuBOvlPYak3UkQpEwONFCDSnVbP23/+QqM=; b=fZvMySmKki1XCVhU PRnc1m9taBkqM1G5LoUum4xHj4flO4VY32QWTSZC/puV9Gzta/BJgxZUa5P7rPi6 ZGks/TpYg97WTQy356WVPN1z5Ipy4JNrDdsQ92MwEKS035N/NIqSKKD3A97ppEm0 HjURRnhjJEpFkAKx/c4z9FHeFvHiK8zcFsNRYDm+PM81vkJk7Az0U+vwobZUpjSz sTMP2LNthZ8C8l6FYN3GxSfXkZNq/+iR1plzGA/lzuFplS0kbXfG1xDvTg6iFBpx uNNhTBWMC90eGkztzb/nUeyF1WuCQUWeyU9Stxwv7laOTx9wF3sQeYol6b4cW5VR 026mUQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=BpyG2JL1oQuBOvlPYak3UkQpEwONFCDSnVbP23/+Q qM=; b=jPE/61LQ1kWvD1JhVMEpqAckztKMH4xnLacAiuYe6DktPJx9QNezxlC97 4VAUlysL/fanQ3xXNuvKC8Zb6EC7nMz/FeUxYZ1RwHH6eMYooSKqYo6Y/7bEoEsH 598pZMXu+q36gmeijziO2nJPCsog1VsrDhb+sFmcT/5JgHl590VJXuypnT95zPtr 10ZGmyMmpHDlPqSA9ikJtvD6TQdRkB4g514w/nI7iZviZsE0NOnsq2ZE0KB1o2Al bhOi4duQFo7ocS/6FUtDwcosN2tbxsMFx7dUias4g47nfTNxhTKPoctZahK7x5MF zbC2N1bQFucrWYoTjiAIHXK5MsO8g== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddrgeekgddulecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffkvffuhfgjfhfogggtgfesthhqre dtredtudenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhtihhnuceujhpnrhhklhhunhguuceomhgsjhdoihgv thhfseegieeikedrshgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeitdethfdthfekteelteekve eifefhudduueekvdefleegtdevgefgteefjefgleenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt necurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmsghjodhivghtfhesgeeiieekrdhsvg X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 05:43:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 11:43:40 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20211124.114340.856721981810780593.id@4668.se> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: maqiufang1=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org, mbj+ietf@4668.se, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: <20211124092508.cga6mutlusyaq4mm@anna> References: <20211123.083850.1266325188190711456.id@4668.se> <1ab9c19f3f7c4126b715d2e389eafdaf@huawei.com> <20211124092508.cga6mutlusyaq4mm@anna> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 10:43:50 -0000 J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder wrote: > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > > = > > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or a leaf= with the same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin shoul= d be used. I think it would be ok to use "system" in this case. > = > For me, is explicit config and hence it has precedence. The= > precedence must be a function of how the datastores related, it shoul= d > not depend on which values a config leaf has. Here's a simple example. Suppose has: lo loopback added by system and has: lo set by a client Now we follow the picture in RFC 8342: +------------+ | | // subject to validation | (ct, ro) | +------------+ | // changes applied, subject to | // local factors, e.g., missing | // resources, delays | dynamic | +-------- learned configuration configuration | +-------- system configuration datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration | | | v v v +---------------+ | | <-- system state | (ct + cf, ro) | +---------------+ So now we merge intended and system into operational state. First we add system to get: lo loopback added by system and then we add intended to arrive at: lo loopback set by a client Doesn't this make sense? /martin From nobody Thu Nov 25 01:46:06 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 100213A0147 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 01:46:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.596 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.596 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=DM2LySF7; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=y8oAmjVz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JApm5vPKGgOP for ; 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Thu, 25 Nov 2021 09:45:56 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= , "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" CC: "maqiufang1=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR11MB4196.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: dabfe999-3dfc-48eb-e665-08d9aff86126 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Nov 2021 09:45:56.4686 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: RNJK4lE2w5l2esgZWTxHVbqYjyTLB6YQvwFxAJQe11AOs0p6v6h7AXhGGyUGcp+JmTrgt7GxslUJA94ImOjUoQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB2933 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.22, xbe-rcd-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 09:46:05 -0000 Hi Martin, I think that the proposal is that should feed into rath= er than directly into . The reasoning for this is to allow co= nfiguration to depend on system defined configuration during validation wit= hout requiring that configuration to be copied into . Clients wou= ld still be allowed to explicitly express the system configuration is runni= ng as well - e.g., if they wanted a full configuration that they can valida= te off box. =20 In your example below, I would probably mark the origin of the lo interface= , the name leaf, and description leaf as "intended", but the type is "syste= m". I think that this would be similar to how I would expect a default val= ue to be reported. I.e., if the running config explicitly sets a leaf to i= ts default value, I think that it is more informative to report that as ori= gin "intended" rather than "origin" default. But I don't think that RFC 83= 42 proscribes what is be used in these cases. Regards, Rob // As a contributor > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Martin Bj=F6rklund > Sent: 24 November 2021 10:44 > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > Cc: maqiufang1=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system" be required for system > configurations copied/pasted into ? >=20 > J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > > > > > > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or a leaf w= ith the > same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be used. = I think it > would be ok to use "system" in this case. > > > > For me, is explicit config and hence it has precedence. The > > precedence must be a function of how the datastores related, it should > > not depend on which values a config leaf has. >=20 > Here's a simple example. >=20 > Suppose has: >=20 > > lo > loopback > added by system > >=20 > and has: >=20 > > lo > set by a client > >=20 > Now we follow the picture in RFC 8342: >=20 > +------------+ > | | // subject to validation > | (ct, ro) | > +------------+ > | // changes applied, subject to > | // local factors, e.g., missing > | // resources, delays > | > dynamic | +-------- learned configuration > configuration | +-------- system configuration > datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration > | | | > v v v > +---------------+ > | | <-- system state > | (ct + cf, ro) | > +---------------+ >=20 >=20 > So now we merge intended and system into operational state. First we > add system to get: >=20 > > lo > loopback > added by system > >=20 > and then we add intended to arrive at: >=20 > > lo > loopback > set by a client > >=20 >=20 > Doesn't this make sense? >=20 >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Nov 25 03:47:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE7E3A0786 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 03:47:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 11:47:46 -0000 I personally believe this notion of a system datastore is actually a bad idea. A loopback interface, for example, is system generated and it exists in operational but usually not in intended. I think it is wrong to think that a system datastore feeds into intended. After all, system config also comes and goes at the will of the system. I am not following this in detail but I fear this work likely creates more damage than that is solves serious real-world problems. /js On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 09:45:56AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi Martin, > > I think that the proposal is that should feed into rather than directly into . The reasoning for this is to allow configuration to depend on system defined configuration during validation without requiring that configuration to be copied into . Clients would still be allowed to explicitly express the system configuration is running as well - e.g., if they wanted a full configuration that they can validate off box. > > In your example below, I would probably mark the origin of the lo interface, the name leaf, and description leaf as "intended", but the type is "system". I think that this would be similar to how I would expect a default value to be reported. I.e., if the running config explicitly sets a leaf to its default value, I think that it is more informative to report that as origin "intended" rather than "origin" default. But I don't think that RFC 8342 proscribes what is be used in these cases. > > Regards, > Rob > > // As a contributor > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Martin Björklund > > Sent: 24 November 2021 10:44 > > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > > Cc: maqiufang1=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system > > configurations copied/pasted into ? > > > > Jürgen Schönwälder wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > > > > > > > > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or a leaf with the > > same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be used. I think it > > would be ok to use "system" in this case. > > > > > > For me, is explicit config and hence it has precedence. The > > > precedence must be a function of how the datastores related, it should > > > not depend on which values a config leaf has. > > > > Here's a simple example. > > > > Suppose has: > > > > > > lo > > loopback > > added by system > > > > > > and has: > > > > > > lo > > set by a client > > > > > > Now we follow the picture in RFC 8342: > > > > +------------+ > > | | // subject to validation > > | (ct, ro) | > > +------------+ > > | // changes applied, subject to > > | // local factors, e.g., missing > > | // resources, delays > > | > > dynamic | +-------- learned configuration > > configuration | +-------- system configuration > > datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration > > | | | > > v v v > > +---------------+ > > | | <-- system state > > | (ct + cf, ro) | > > +---------------+ > > > > > > So now we merge intended and system into operational state. First we > > add system to get: > > > > > > lo > > loopback > > added by system > > > > > > and then we add intended to arrive at: > > > > > > lo > > loopback > > set by a client > > > > > > > > Doesn't this make sense? > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 25 04:03:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604903A07B2 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 04:03:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=H+d9gN4Y; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=GtVwafwN Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WY1HnFhqP6ZV for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 04:03:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF3573A07AF for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 04:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5475C00DD; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:03:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:03:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh= Vhx+Ied8bO3sxr0hFgQ6ugVTOVZzTvjjBPrmAufzuY4=; b=H+d9gN4Y7qjwF2ys wb20YCLU/u9fpFZCy3zQ4xOGlQ7dW7/sc3beRypcujNrbYOeaaYqkWWbCJ8D5mbE lefPLVjq7LwuQzEfFLja/96dNQ5zQEQGOvNvHBkiDTRAFaKeRJKwhkuoAYUGrG2g 8JjgEVtFLzsI4l8GasP5JeS4kOkZs3HKObgytu0NauNEvMgMh4B5zPpRKYpySVW2 CsouyYJRj78RdylYjeRq1puZ9us41R8tHZc1LJtN2orfwvFONCQxOB2E/sLVKtKx 2ySv0+vJlWmwhHRGgEWyrzrj9xE6lORyq0Zq1wsixYkbDaIYQ5w4jFESYjbb6Umg +yCNjA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=Vhx+Ied8bO3sxr0hFgQ6ugVTOVZzTvjjBPrmAufzu Y4=; b=GtVwafwNCfRMQH1Pm/kq9Zx+I631JRu0d1Vs+UT6VQDkQoQVqksBwX0xH slx5aqLUr97y2pSz4Y6sQ+J9j6Kitqz1njCpA8iYvGhH1w0mVK6qeoRweVX5TDDr CiAc6NDbSoGYRGn/yPAdLTRxFO5BIGZUu+YQua6SAaIg4FNNVYkeHVH1d1CO4/NJ XDEBL3+ZCgBrbJdylP2KhWfmZ5hthb+hJo4UxeEUZiVCm3pKK8rUfWkx/SSZO+I6 xEyFhM1ol9prxrzsY1lbe/qLga6D23PFcG2AEoLdCUxrlYLDte6+tMga/GCMfUMw tnlLr7ggOs+MPEMUJYGrHsYTPA7Eg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddrhedtgdefhecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffkvffuhfgjfhfogggtgfesthhqre dtredtudenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhtihhnuceujhpnrhhklhhunhguuceomhgsjhdoihgv thhfseegieeikedrshgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeuffeuvefglefgffdvjeekje dvgeeltdehvdffveduheeugeeluedtgefgueevueenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdho rhhgpdhjrggtohgsshdquhhnihhvvghrshhithihrdguvgenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii gvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmsghjodhivghtfhesgeeiieekrdhs vg X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:03:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:01:55 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20211125.130155.1636018839435459937.id@4668.se> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: rwilton@cisco.com, mbj+ietf@4668.se, maqiufang1=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: <20211125114733.phenv7mktyed6d4v@anna> References: <20211124.114340.856721981810780593.id@4668.se> <20211125114733.phenv7mktyed6d4v@anna> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 12:03:39 -0000 J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder wrote: > I personally believe this notion of a system datastore is actually a > bad idea. A loopback interface, for example, is system generated and > it exists in operational but usually not in intended. I think it is > wrong to think that a system datastore feeds into intended. After all= , > system config also comes and goes at the will of the system. I am not= > following this in detail but I fear this work likely creates more > damage than that is solves serious real-world problems. I strongly agree. I didn't understand that part of the proposal. I guess the discussion about origin system confused me; if system feeds into intended then the origin will be intended. /martin > = > /js > = > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 09:45:56AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:= > > Hi Martin, > > = > > I think that the proposal is that should feed into rather than directly into . The reasoning for this is= to allow configuration to depend on system defined configuration durin= g validation without requiring that configuration to be copied into . Clients would still be allowed to explicitly express the syste= m configuration is running as well - e.g., if they wanted a full config= uration that they can validate off box. > > = > > In your example below, I would probably mark the origin of the lo i= nterface, the name leaf, and description leaf as "intended", but the ty= pe is "system". I think that this would be similar to how I would expe= ct a default value to be reported. I.e., if the running config explici= tly sets a leaf to its default value, I think that it is more informati= ve to report that as origin "intended" rather than "origin" default. B= ut I don't think that RFC 8342 proscribes what is be used in these case= s. > > = > > Regards, > > Rob > > = > > // As a contributor > > = > > = > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Martin Bj=F6r= klund > > > Sent: 24 November 2021 10:44 > > > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > > > Cc: maqiufang1=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system" be required fo= r system > > > configurations copied/pasted into ? > > > = > > > J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder w= rote: > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or = a leaf with the > > > same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be= used. I think it > > > would be ok to use "system" in this case. > > > > > > > > For me, is explicit config and hence it has precedenc= e. The > > > > precedence must be a function of how the datastores related, it= should > > > > not depend on which values a config leaf has. > > > = > > > Here's a simple example. > > > = > > > Suppose has: > > > = > > > > > > lo > > > loopback > > > added by system > > > > > > = > > > and has: > > > = > > > > > > lo > > > set by a client > > > > > > = > > > Now we follow the picture in RFC 8342: > > > = > > > +------------+ > > > | | // subject to validation > > > | (ct, ro) | > > > +------------+ > > > | // changes applied, subject = to > > > | // local factors, e.g., miss= ing > > > | // resources, delays > > > | > > > dynamic | +-------- learned configuration > > > configuration | +-------- system configuration > > > datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration > > > | | | > > > v v v > > > +---------------+ > > > | | <-- system state > > > | (ct + cf, ro) | > > > +---------------+ > > > = > > > = > > > So now we merge intended and system into operational state. Firs= t we > > > add system to get: > > > = > > > > > > lo > > > loopback > > > added by system > > > > > > = > > > and then we add intended to arrive at: > > > = > > > > > > lo > > > loopback > > > set by a client > > > > > > = > > > = > > > Doesn't this make sense? > > > = > > > = > > > = > > > /martin > > > = > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > = > -- = > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | German= y > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 25 04:10:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B2A3A07B7 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 04:10:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=H+d9gN4Y; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Sscf4wb2 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gVYr8X_3NX8g for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 04:10:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF43C3A07BA for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 04:10:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CFA65C0165; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:03:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:03:38 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh= Vhx+Ied8bO3sxr0hFgQ6ugVTOVZzTvjjBPrmAufzuY4=; b=H+d9gN4Y7qjwF2ys wb20YCLU/u9fpFZCy3zQ4xOGlQ7dW7/sc3beRypcujNrbYOeaaYqkWWbCJ8D5mbE lefPLVjq7LwuQzEfFLja/96dNQ5zQEQGOvNvHBkiDTRAFaKeRJKwhkuoAYUGrG2g 8JjgEVtFLzsI4l8GasP5JeS4kOkZs3HKObgytu0NauNEvMgMh4B5zPpRKYpySVW2 CsouyYJRj78RdylYjeRq1puZ9us41R8tHZc1LJtN2orfwvFONCQxOB2E/sLVKtKx 2ySv0+vJlWmwhHRGgEWyrzrj9xE6lORyq0Zq1wsixYkbDaIYQ5w4jFESYjbb6Umg +yCNjA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=Vhx+Ied8bO3sxr0hFgQ6ugVTOVZzTvjjBPrmAufzu Y4=; b=Sscf4wb2KJAjbxkZceA1qo/8p+FNYHEzhy8wYT9im+FJG5aJdbgGtvaZh kVsw5mrGd5SbWSsnE2zKgeo/K6nInxu2E1bhTgEsay0vf6O5XKennDesfsERIaY9 Ui9E9TaX3AEkFgH3v9x4DzUuDteAjJPdfhVHr9y38ilJWOxCsKJFFX5Mk0MLZAQl DaaeBmMfTYFaZx2sfL19Utdm2DrW84fqATRSPvlYRSpguoAllmYN7/0DAcjelKvU TL9KLZU+fmfO2Y4dLDJ84RvVSPAeCgabxDq7wgaMZ+rGJ+zEVvgv6o9mTvDzfPE1 5Qk3eA2GB7mnc/tST5QQLnUJIQf2Q== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddrhedtgdefhecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffkvffuhfgjfhfogggtgfesthhqre dtredtudenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhtihhnuceujhpnrhhklhhunhguuceomhgsjhdoihgv thhfseegieeikedrshgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeuffeuvefglefgffdvjeekje dvgeeltdehvdffveduheeugeeluedtgefgueevueenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdho rhhgpdhjrggtohgsshdquhhnihhvvghrshhithihrdguvgenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii gvpedunecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmsghjodhivghtfhesgeeiieekrdhs vg X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:03:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:01:55 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20211125.130155.1636018839435459937.id@4668.se> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: rwilton@cisco.com, mbj+ietf@4668.se, maqiufang1=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: <20211125114733.phenv7mktyed6d4v@anna> References: <20211124.114340.856721981810780593.id@4668.se> <20211125114733.phenv7mktyed6d4v@anna> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 12:10:57 -0000 J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder wrote: > I personally believe this notion of a system datastore is actually a > bad idea. A loopback interface, for example, is system generated and > it exists in operational but usually not in intended. I think it is > wrong to think that a system datastore feeds into intended. After all= , > system config also comes and goes at the will of the system. I am not= > following this in detail but I fear this work likely creates more > damage than that is solves serious real-world problems. I strongly agree. I didn't understand that part of the proposal. I guess the discussion about origin system confused me; if system feeds into intended then the origin will be intended. /martin > = > /js > = > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 09:45:56AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:= > > Hi Martin, > > = > > I think that the proposal is that should feed into rather than directly into . The reasoning for this is= to allow configuration to depend on system defined configuration durin= g validation without requiring that configuration to be copied into . Clients would still be allowed to explicitly express the syste= m configuration is running as well - e.g., if they wanted a full config= uration that they can validate off box. > > = > > In your example below, I would probably mark the origin of the lo i= nterface, the name leaf, and description leaf as "intended", but the ty= pe is "system". I think that this would be similar to how I would expe= ct a default value to be reported. I.e., if the running config explici= tly sets a leaf to its default value, I think that it is more informati= ve to report that as origin "intended" rather than "origin" default. B= ut I don't think that RFC 8342 proscribes what is be used in these case= s. > > = > > Regards, > > Rob > > = > > // As a contributor > > = > > = > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Martin Bj=F6r= klund > > > Sent: 24 November 2021 10:44 > > > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > > > Cc: maqiufang1=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system" be required fo= r system > > > configurations copied/pasted into ? > > > = > > > J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder w= rote: > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or = a leaf with the > > > same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be= used. I think it > > > would be ok to use "system" in this case. > > > > > > > > For me, is explicit config and hence it has precedenc= e. The > > > > precedence must be a function of how the datastores related, it= should > > > > not depend on which values a config leaf has. > > > = > > > Here's a simple example. > > > = > > > Suppose has: > > > = > > > > > > lo > > > loopback > > > added by system > > > > > > = > > > and has: > > > = > > > > > > lo > > > set by a client > > > > > > = > > > Now we follow the picture in RFC 8342: > > > = > > > +------------+ > > > | | // subject to validation > > > | (ct, ro) | > > > +------------+ > > > | // changes applied, subject = to > > > | // local factors, e.g., miss= ing > > > | // resources, delays > > > | > > > dynamic | +-------- learned configuration > > > configuration | +-------- system configuration > > > datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration > > > | | | > > > v v v > > > +---------------+ > > > | | <-- system state > > > | (ct + cf, ro) | > > > +---------------+ > > > = > > > = > > > So now we merge intended and system into operational state. Firs= t we > > > add system to get: > > > = > > > > > > lo > > > loopback > > > added by system > > > > > > = > > > and then we add intended to arrive at: > > > = > > > > > > lo > > > loopback > > > set by a client > > > > > > = > > > = > > > Doesn't this make sense? > > > = > > > = > > > = > > > /martin > > > = > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > = > -- = > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | German= y > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 25 04:54:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE093A0827 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 04:54:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N92vfjNaCeg6 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 04:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 829A03A0829 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 04:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml701-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.201]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4J0HmD107dz67f1t; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 20:50:36 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepemm000019.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.135) by fraeml701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2308.20; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:54:31 +0100 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.234) by kwepemm000019.china.huawei.com (7.193.23.135) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 20:54:29 +0800 Received: from kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) by kwepemm600017.china.huawei.com ([7.193.23.234]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.020; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 20:54:29 +0800 From: "maqiufang (A)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= , "Juergen Schoenwaelder" CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? Thread-Index: AdffkR5sVtMRYIzeTpCisQ2IqIgmxwAaPt4AADhgKLD//+0GAIAAFfEAgAGCNACAACH7gIAABAOA//9ykxA= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 12:54:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20211124.114340.856721981810780593.id@4668.se> <20211125114733.phenv7mktyed6d4v@anna> <20211125.130155.1636018839435459937.id@4668.se> In-Reply-To: <20211125.130155.1636018839435459937.id@4668.se> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.100.87] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 12:54:39 -0000 Hi, Jurgen, Martin, -----Original Message----- From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin Bj?rklund Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2021 8:02 PM To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: maqiufang1=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system" be required for system c= onfigurations copied/pasted into ? J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder wrote: > I personally believe this notion of a system datastore is actually a=20 > bad idea. A loopback interface, for example, is system generated and=20 > it exists in operational but usually not in intended. I think it is=20 > wrong to think that a system datastore feeds into intended. After all,=20 > system config also comes and goes at the will of the system. I am not=20 > following this in detail but I fear this work likely creates more=20 > damage than that is solves serious real-world problems. [Qiufang Ma] There is often a desire to reference a system configuration or= configure a descendant node of system configuration. How to keep = / valid when leaf-ref a system configuration which is only presen= t in ? Or do we think that explicitly configuration in should always be the case? I strongly agree. I didn't understand that part of the proposal. I guess = the discussion about origin system confused me; if system feeds into intend= ed then the origin will be intended. [Qiufang Ma] If feeds into , the server MUST remember a = particular data node is from system or from intended, those previously pres= ent in with origin=3Dsystem will keep the origin unchanged. T= his work does not change that behavior.=20 Best Regards, Qiufang Ma /martin >=20 > /js >=20 > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 09:45:56AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > Hi Martin, > >=20 > > I think that the proposal is that should feed into = rather than directly into . The reasoning for this is to allo= w configuration to depend on system defined configuration during validation= without requiring that configuration to be copied into . Clients= would still be allowed to explicitly express the system configuration is r= unning as well - e.g., if they wanted a full configuration that they can va= lidate off box. > > =20 > > In your example below, I would probably mark the origin of the lo inter= face, the name leaf, and description leaf as "intended", but the type is "s= ystem". I think that this would be similar to how I would expect a default= value to be reported. I.e., if the running config explicitly sets a leaf = to its default value, I think that it is more informative to report that as= origin "intended" rather than "origin" default. But I don't think that RF= C 8342 proscribes what is be used in these cases. > >=20 > > Regards, > > Rob > >=20 > > // As a contributor > >=20 > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Martin=20 > > > Bj=F6rklund > > > Sent: 24 November 2021 10:44 > > > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > > > Cc: maqiufang1=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system" be required for=20 > > > system configurations copied/pasted into ? > > >=20 > > > J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder wrote= : > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or a=20 > > > > > leaf with the > > > same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be=20 > > > used. I think it would be ok to use "system" in this case. > > > > > > > > For me, is explicit config and hence it has=20 > > > > precedence. The precedence must be a function of how the=20 > > > > datastores related, it should not depend on which values a config l= eaf has. > > >=20 > > > Here's a simple example. > > >=20 > > > Suppose has: > > >=20 > > > > > > lo > > > loopback > > > added by system > > > > > >=20 > > > and has: > > >=20 > > > > > > lo > > > set by a client > > > > > >=20 > > > Now we follow the picture in RFC 8342: > > >=20 > > > +------------+ > > > | | // subject to validation > > > | (ct, ro) | > > > +------------+ > > > | // changes applied, subject to > > > | // local factors, e.g., missing > > > | // resources, delays > > > | > > > dynamic | +-------- learned configuration > > > configuration | +-------- system configuration > > > datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration > > > | | | > > > v v v > > > +---------------+ > > > | | <-- system state > > > | (ct + cf, ro) | > > > +---------------+ > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > So now we merge intended and system into operational state. First=20 > > > we add system to get: > > >=20 > > > > > > lo > > > loopback > > > added by system > > > > > >=20 > > > and then we add intended to arrive at: > > >=20 > > > > > > lo > > > loopback > > > set by a client > > > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Doesn't this make sense? > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > /martin > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Nov 25 05:02:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47093A083D for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 05:02:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:02:03 -0000 The way to resolve things is to use name bindings. I can configure the interface "lo" in running by refering to this interface by name. If there is no "lo" in the system, then the config gets ignored. /js On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 12:54:28PM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > Hi, Jurgen, Martin, > > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin Bj?rklund > Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2021 8:02 PM > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > Cc: maqiufang1=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? > > Jürgen Schönwälder wrote: > > I personally believe this notion of a system datastore is actually a > > bad idea. A loopback interface, for example, is system generated and > > it exists in operational but usually not in intended. I think it is > > wrong to think that a system datastore feeds into intended. After all, > > system config also comes and goes at the will of the system. I am not > > following this in detail but I fear this work likely creates more > > damage than that is solves serious real-world problems. > [Qiufang Ma] There is often a desire to reference a system configuration or configure a descendant node of system configuration. How to keep / valid when leaf-ref a system configuration which is only present in ? Or do we think that explicitly configuration in should always be the case? > > I strongly agree. I didn't understand that part of the proposal. I guess the discussion about origin system confused me; if system feeds into intended then the origin will be intended. > [Qiufang Ma] If feeds into , the server MUST remember a particular data node is from system or from intended, those previously present in with origin=system will keep the origin unchanged. This work does not change that behavior. > > Best Regards, > Qiufang Ma > > > /martin > > > > > > > /js > > > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 09:45:56AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > Hi Martin, > > > > > > I think that the proposal is that should feed into rather than directly into . The reasoning for this is to allow configuration to depend on system defined configuration during validation without requiring that configuration to be copied into . Clients would still be allowed to explicitly express the system configuration is running as well - e.g., if they wanted a full configuration that they can validate off box. > > > > > > In your example below, I would probably mark the origin of the lo interface, the name leaf, and description leaf as "intended", but the type is "system". I think that this would be similar to how I would expect a default value to be reported. I.e., if the running config explicitly sets a leaf to its default value, I think that it is more informative to report that as origin "intended" rather than "origin" default. But I don't think that RFC 8342 proscribes what is be used in these cases. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Rob > > > > > > // As a contributor > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Martin > > > > Björklund > > > > Sent: 24 November 2021 10:44 > > > > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > > > > Cc: maqiufang1=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for > > > > system configurations copied/pasted into ? > > > > > > > > Jürgen Schönwälder wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or a > > > > > > leaf with the > > > > same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be > > > > used. I think it would be ok to use "system" in this case. > > > > > > > > > > For me, is explicit config and hence it has > > > > > precedence. The precedence must be a function of how the > > > > > datastores related, it should not depend on which values a config leaf has. > > > > > > > > Here's a simple example. > > > > > > > > Suppose has: > > > > > > > > > > > > lo > > > > loopback > > > > added by system > > > > > > > > > > > > and has: > > > > > > > > > > > > lo > > > > set by a client > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we follow the picture in RFC 8342: > > > > > > > > +------------+ > > > > | | // subject to validation > > > > | (ct, ro) | > > > > +------------+ > > > > | // changes applied, subject to > > > > | // local factors, e.g., missing > > > > | // resources, delays > > > > | > > > > dynamic | +-------- learned configuration > > > > configuration | +-------- system configuration > > > > datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration > > > > | | | > > > > v v v > > > > +---------------+ > > > > | | <-- system state > > > > | (ct + cf, ro) | > > > > +---------------+ > > > > > > > > > > > > So now we merge intended and system into operational state. First > > > > we add system to get: > > > > > > > > > > > > lo > > > > loopback > > > > added by system > > > > > > > > > > > > and then we add intended to arrive at: > > > > > > > > > > > > lo > > > > loopback > > > > set by a client > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't this make sense? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 25 07:25:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214CF3A09F2 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:25:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dKppZShnDQW5 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:24:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x233.google.com (mail-lj1-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D02D03A09F1 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x233.google.com with SMTP id l9so13204847ljq.5 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:24:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=7Hb4fFASbAHugi6Q+TnFDyln7z2ocVtCoSBzMsSgSzc=; b=FrrPa8PpYvt3qNZN6ObPBdXmX4/PQWaL7DapfETXZyy02sQtP4EG2wBxAsAWZzRZZG 3VcHv3xqXJMEsdofarKudSVu2ispiS4lJHC6ptCe1rkeeUs/9Q6sSucyAYOwGv7yQInL mbsm1pWmNIpi1QbhFv272J0VTk40VqH9djXfQTa8BnogEoouFtrhc+uOUjiDbsYuNEca VO3IuEFMKHuMN/T9CagXefifk85gDkqfPmYyIocA3KmYQZIy/2frce70phyTtVRrYSMq L1DcBc2fiNX6UPQBxEnkD2YBS8JH7mru/tIf27Ols+TfTHwSJ663Q1g136WSf7D5iZMT M28w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=7Hb4fFASbAHugi6Q+TnFDyln7z2ocVtCoSBzMsSgSzc=; b=f68mzqLrvMUZKflyXc15kU0yQvql+Bva/9oI738ksTLsvmSs78clgWHnHsiMAZDXlI IjcUKcuxnIMP4tVNuaaOLAqdbsnVnKl3s6MxKZW+6THzecOPNhwX1KX43qmk4nZS1Yym KUz5V9WJ50cGuBqo2FO5Yqk5rFjk/9h/PEklcDibAn87WHk9NzCQUKHlnpS1n/N3l6PY 4dsaEGJFM1GCyIx6btP4+7xiIGwH5wu3R1XOyEkbWmTConF8UloedexiGMgFW7l2ho/h gd6oWZtAwO0KPQgYZwcDmAVYMesXJk6k2rYmv8UpyyqBnDrPaUb9f0Ckzh30JCT5/HQO 1v5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533w59vyP7FGEDHmrE8g6oSSpjaiPi3YMi7n1+K06HD6Io1onV88 mvX88UAnomYCgKbLj/xR3FNviUOVclYFu/d2/8cVtA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxWaRYkNJc6r/Z7ByvHfJSS+3X+XzXZWR6Dn4jtEtzgsB7rHJMqEq1Zs71WJ5xvPVY/QyIJjmGEoLXXH1IvFI8= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:904b:: with SMTP id n11mr24824701ljg.120.1637853891718; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:24:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211124.114340.856721981810780593.id@4668.se> <20211125114733.phenv7mktyed6d4v@anna> <20211125.130155.1636018839435459937.id@4668.se> <20211125130128.ogpuzktbdyp6yydj@anna> In-Reply-To: <20211125130128.ogpuzktbdyp6yydj@anna> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:24:40 -0800 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "maqiufang (A)" , =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000069067b05d19e9316" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 15:25:00 -0000 --00000000000069067b05d19e9316 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 5:02 AM J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > The way to resolve things is to use name bindings. I can configure the > interface "lo" in running by refering to this interface by name. If > there is no "lo" in the system, then the config gets ignored. > > /js > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 12:54:28PM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > > Hi, Jurgen, Martin, > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin > Bj?rklund > > Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2021 8:02 PM > > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > > Cc: maqiufang1=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system" be required for syst= em > configurations copied/pasted into ? > > > > J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder wrote: > > > I personally believe this notion of a system datastore is actually a > > > bad idea. A loopback interface, for example, is system generated and > > > it exists in operational but usually not in intended. I think it is > > > wrong to think that a system datastore feeds into intended. After all= , > > > system config also comes and goes at the will of the system. I am not > > > following this in detail but I fear this work likely creates more > > > damage than that is solves serious real-world problems. > > [Qiufang Ma] There is often a desire to reference a system configuratio= n > or configure a descendant node of system configuration. How to keep > / valid when leaf-ref a system configuration which is > only present in ? Or do we think that explicitly > configuration in should always be the case? > > I agree with Juergen. RFC 7950 rules about leafref validation are very clear. Adding a new datastore to these rules requires a massive change to NMDA and all implementations. 2) As Juergen points out, servers populate the system config in and the operator is free to ignore it, reference it, or possibly change it. The premise of seems to be that this approach is not "pure enough" for NMDA and MUST only contain operator-created configuration. Why? What real problems would this change solve? Andy > > I strongly agree. I didn't understand that part of the proposal. I > guess the discussion about origin system confused me; if system feeds int= o > intended then the origin will be intended. > > [Qiufang Ma] If feeds into , the server MUST remembe= r > a particular data node is from system or from intended, those previously > present in with origin=3Dsystem will keep the origin unchan= ged. > This work does not change that behavior. > > > > Best Regards, > > Qiufang Ma > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 09:45:56AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > Hi Martin, > > > > > > > > I think that the proposal is that should feed into > rather than directly into . The reasoning for th= is > is to allow configuration to depend on system defined configuration durin= g > validation without requiring that configuration to be copied into > . Clients would still be allowed to explicitly express the syst= em > configuration is running as well - e.g., if they wanted a full > configuration that they can validate off box. > > > > > > > > In your example below, I would probably mark the origin of the lo > interface, the name leaf, and description leaf as "intended", but the typ= e > is "system". I think that this would be similar to how I would expect a > default value to be reported. I.e., if the running config explicitly set= s > a leaf to its default value, I think that it is more informative to repor= t > that as origin "intended" rather than "origin" default. But I don't thin= k > that RFC 8342 proscribes what is be used in these cases. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > // As a contributor > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Martin > > > > > Bj=C3=B6rklund > > > > > Sent: 24 November 2021 10:44 > > > > > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > > > > > Cc: maqiufang1=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system" be required fo= r > > > > > system configurations copied/pasted into ? > > > > > > > > > > J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., an interface) or = a > > > > > > > leaf with the > > > > > same value. In this case, it is not clear which origin should be > > > > > used. I think it would be ok to use "system" in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > For me, is explicit config and hence it has > > > > > > precedence. The precedence must be a function of how the > > > > > > datastores related, it should not depend on which values a > config leaf has. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a simple example. > > > > > > > > > > Suppose has: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lo > > > > > loopback > > > > > added by system > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and has: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lo > > > > > set by a client > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we follow the picture in RFC 8342: > > > > > > > > > > +------------+ > > > > > | | // subject to validation > > > > > | (ct, ro) | > > > > > +------------+ > > > > > | // changes applied, subject = to > > > > > | // local factors, e.g., > missing > > > > > | // resources, delays > > > > > | > > > > > dynamic | +-------- learned configuration > > > > > configuration | +-------- system configuration > > > > > datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration > > > > > | | | > > > > > v v v > > > > > +---------------+ > > > > > | | <-- system state > > > > > | (ct + cf, ro) | > > > > > +---------------+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now we merge intended and system into operational state. Firs= t > > > > > we add system to get: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lo > > > > > loopback > > > > > added by system > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and then we add intended to arrive at: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lo > > > > > loopback > > > > > set by a client > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't this make sense? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > -- > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | German= y > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --00000000000069067b05d19e9316 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 5:02 AM J=C3= =BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
The way to resolve thing= s is to use name bindings. I can configure the
interface "lo" in running by refering to this interface by name. = If
there is no "lo" in the system, then the config gets ignored.

/js

On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 12:54:28PM +0000, maqiufang (A) wrote:
> Hi, Jurgen, Martin,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin Bj?rklund
> Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2021 8:02 PM
> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de
> Cc: maqiufang1=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system" be requir= ed for system configurations copied/pasted into <running>?
>
> J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university= .de> wrote:
> > I personally believe this notion of a system datastore is actuall= y a
> > bad idea. A loopback interface, for example, is system generated = and
> > it exists in operational but usually not in intended. I think it = is
> > wrong to think that a system datastore feeds into intended. After= all,
> > system config also comes and goes at the will of the system. I am= not
> > following this in detail but I fear this work likely creates more=
> > damage than that is solves serious real-world problems.
> [Qiufang Ma] There is often a desire to reference a system configurati= on or configure a descendant node of system configuration. How to keep <= running>/<intended> valid when leaf-ref a system configuration whi= ch is only present in <operational>?=C2=A0 =C2=A0Or do we think that = explicitly configuration in <running> should always be the case?
>

I agree with=C2=A0Juergen.
<= br>
RFC 7950 rules about leafref validation are very clear.
=
Adding a new datastore to these rules requires a massive change to NMD= A
and all implementations.

2) As Juergen= points out, servers populate the system config in <running> and the = operator is
free to ignore it, reference it, or possibly change i= t.=C2=A0 The premise of <system> seems to
be that this appr= oach is not "pure enough" for NMDA and <running> MUST only = contain
operator-created configuration. Why? What real problems w= ould this change solve?


Andy
<= div>

> I strongly agree.=C2=A0 I didn't understand that part of the propo= sal.=C2=A0 I guess the discussion about origin system confused me; if syste= m feeds into intended then the origin will be intended.
> [Qiufang Ma] If <system> feeds into <intended>, the server= MUST remember a particular data node is from system or from intended, thos= e previously present in <operational> with origin=3Dsystem will keep = the origin unchanged. This work does not change that behavior.
>
> Best Regards,
> Qiufang Ma
>
>
> /martin
>
>
>
> >
> > /js
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 09:45:56AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wr= ote:
> > > Hi Martin,
> > >
> > > I think that the proposal is that <system> should feed= into <intended> rather than directly into <operational>.=C2=A0= The reasoning for this is to allow configuration to depend on system defin= ed configuration during validation without requiring that configuration to = be copied into <running>.=C2=A0 Clients would still be allowed to exp= licitly express the system configuration is running as well - e.g., if they= wanted a full configuration that they can validate off box.
> > >=C2=A0
> > > In your example below, I would probably mark the origin of t= he lo interface, the name leaf, and description leaf as "intended"= ;, but the type is "system".=C2=A0 I think that this would be sim= ilar to how I would expect a default value to be reported.=C2=A0 I.e., if t= he running config explicitly sets a leaf to its default value, I think that= it is more informative to report that as origin "intended" rathe= r than "origin" default.=C2=A0 But I don't think that RFC 834= 2 proscribes what is be used in these cases.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > // As a contributor
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Martin =
> > > > Bj=C3=B6rklund
> > > > Sent: 24 November 2021 10:44
> > > > To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de
> > > > Cc: maqiufang1=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin=3D"system&= quot; be required for
> > > > system configurations copied/pasted into <running>= ;?
> > > >
> > > > J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder <j.schoenwaelder@ja= cobs-university.de> wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 03:21:14AM +0000, maqiufan= g (A) wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But suppose the node is a list entry (e.g., a= n interface) or a
> > > > > > leaf with the
> > > > same value.=C2=A0 In this case, it is not clear which o= rigin should be
> > > > used.=C2=A0 I think it would be ok to use "system&= quot; in this case.
> > > > >
> > > > > For me, <running> is explicit config and hen= ce it has
> > > > > precedence. The precedence must be a function of h= ow the
> > > > > datastores related, it should not depend on which = values a config leaf has.
> > > >
> > > > Here's a simple example.
> > > >
> > > > Suppose <system> has:
> > > >
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <interface>
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <name>lo</name>
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <type>loopback</type> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <description>added by system&= lt;/description>
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </interface>
> > > >
> > > > and <intended> has:
> > > >
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <interface>
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <name>lo</name>
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <description>set by a client&= lt;/description>
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </interface>
> > > >
> > > > Now we follow the picture in RFC 8342:
> > > >
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+------------+
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| <intended> | // subject to validation > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| (ct, ro)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+------------+
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 // changes applied, subject to
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 // local factors, e.g., missing
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 // resources, delays
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 dynamic=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-------- learned configuration > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 configuration=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-------- system configuration
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 datastores -----+=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-------- default configuration
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 v=C2=A0 =C2=A0 v=C2=A0 =C2=A0v
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---------------+
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| <operational> | <-- system state
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| (ct + cf, ro) |
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---------------+
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So now we merge intended and system into operational st= ate.=C2=A0 First
> > > > we add system to get:
> > > >
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0<interface origin=3D"system"&g= t;
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<name>lo</name>
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<type>loopback</type> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<description>added by system&l= t;/description>
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0</interface>
> > > >
> > > > and then we add intended to arrive at:
> > > >
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0<interface origin=3D"system"&g= t;
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<name>lo</name>
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<type>loopback</type> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<description origin=3D"inten= ded">set by a client</description>
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0</interface>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Doesn't this make sense?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > /martin
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > netmod mailing list
> > > > ne= tmod@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/netmod
> >
> > --
> > Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jac= obs University Bremen gGmbH
> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus R= ing 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> > Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8f21c02c-9481-4bde-529f-08d9b0355bce X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Nov 2021 17:02:26.8534 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: kXLWLZh9gcBrATkNUnU3uVgEQqZI8koofavnPGmd7zg+CSBUMzRG1uCZW4TYLOOw98/iNTl48S7ewtuqehuM5A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB5941 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 17:02:34 -0000 From: netmod on behalf of Ladislav Lhotka =0A= Sent: 24 November 2021 08:13=0A= =0A= Hi,=0A= =0A= I tried to generalize the approach of RFC 9108 and develop XSLT stylesheets= for generating YANG modules directly from IANA registries. The results are= in this GitHub project:=0A= =0A= https://github.com/llhotka/iana-yang=0A= =0A= So far I have processed 22 registries - most of them are related to DNS, bu= t I also tried to include a few from other areas. After cloning the project= , all YANG modules can be generated by running "make" in the top-level dire= ctory.=0A= =0A= Adding a new registry is usually quite simple, although some hide nasty sur= prises such as duplicate entries. Also, in most cases it is quite clear how= to do the translation, but sometimes input from domain experts might be ne= eded.=0A= =0A= I can see two immediate advantages of this approach:=0A= =0A= * There is a single source of truth - the registry itself; IANA needn't=0A= maintain the YANG module separately.=0A= =0A= * The initial revision of a registry-based YANG module needn't be published= in=0A= an RFC that is not intended to be updated. There are concerns that people= =0A= may extract such a module from the RFC long after it becomes obsolete.=0A= =0A= Please let me know what you think about this.=0A= =0A= =0A= An IANA registry can contain any number of columns meaning an infinite vari= ety of things - TLS comes to mind. A YANG module is more limited. Having= both in an RFC shows how to map the registry into YANG.=0A= =0A= And what do yo do with Early Allocation, which can last more than a year?= =0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= Thanks, Lada=0A= =0A= --=0A= Ladislav Lhotka=0A= Head, CZ.NIC Labs=0A= PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67=0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netmod mailing list=0A= netmod@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= From nobody Thu Nov 25 09:14:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485833A0BFC for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 09:14:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 10fe7b9b-aa2e-4487-a3da-08d9b037132f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Nov 2021 17:14:44.0388 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: QLrcvVQB8pl2bHbQMjVilS5u84rfsYuxWFHc17wshxGo2wZEn4IL3TE11pFU8fuRNKxHXCJOit94V6fdt1MIvA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB5107 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 17:14:51 -0000 From: netmod on behalf of J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lde= r =0A= Sent: 07 November 2021 16:36=0A= =0A= On Sun, Nov 07, 2021 at 08:18:36AM -0800, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:= =0A= s.=0A= > This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.=0A= >=0A= > Title : Common YANG Data Types=0A= > Author : Juergen Schoenwaelder=0A= > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08.txt=0A= > Pages : 41=0A= > Date : 2021-11-07=0A= >=0A= > A diff from the previous version is available at:=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-08=0A= >=0A= =0A= This is a mostly editorial update. The draft has no open issues I am=0A= aware of. The WG has to decide whether we wrap this up by sending the=0A= document to WG last call and then through the publication pipeline or=0A= we leave this I-D hanging around just in case more additions get=0A= proposed and finally worked out so that they can be added. In later=0A= case, it is crucial to provide concrete and actionable proposals.=0A= Rough ideas "please add X" where it is left somewhat open what "X"=0A= really boils down to or how "X" will be used makes it difficult to=0A= work out the details.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= There seems to be more energy for updating MIB modules than there is for up= dating this:-(=0A= =0A= I have had lots of good ideas in the past few years but do not believe that= I could ever convince a WG to wait for this to proceed and incorporate the= m.=0A= =0A= draft-ietf-i2nsf-nsf-facing-interface recently received a scathing secdir r= eview along the lines that there must be something wrong with the YANG ecos= ystem that so many obviously generic elements are defined in an individual = I-D and not in area-maintained modules. My reply was that that is the natu= re of the IETF ecosystem, that it is not conducive to producing generically= useful elements for other WG to use in a timely manner. Sigh.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= /js=0A= =0A= PS: I have not registered for IETF 112, I guess I will watch the=0A= session recordings once they are available.=0A= =0A= --=0A= Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netmod mailing list=0A= netmod@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= From nobody Thu Nov 25 09:35:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE573A0CA0 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 09:35:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GXkQcIjMHWGe for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 09:35:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84F6B3A0C9F for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 09:35:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a436.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.164.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4J0Q532BnSz2xkd; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 18:35:35 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <87o86ahsy1.fsf@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 18:35:34 +0100 Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 659554534.932963-2b6722ba197d320236f3875b100224fb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <87o86ahsy1.fsf@nic.cz> To: Ladislav Lhotka X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 17:35:43 -0000 On 2021-11-24, at 09:13, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >=20 > Please let me know what you think about this. I think it is amazing. So for each registry, you have =E2=80=94 manually extracted an information model and kept that in your = head, =E2=80=94 written code that translates the information you could extract = from the XML form of the registry into a YANG data model (note that this = data model is not defining the registry, but it is the translated = content of the registry) This is certainly highly useful. It also requires to essentially start from scratch for each new = registry. Shouldn=E2=80=99t registries come with a machine readable information = model? Shouldn=E2=80=99t it then be =E2=80=9Ceasy=E2=80=9D to build a generic = tool that creates a YANG model out of the data in the registry? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Nov 25 19:33:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2493A0785 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 19:33:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9CeJKLK2IBVh for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 19:33:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AE5B3A0780 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 19:33:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml738-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.206]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4J0gL94bPNz67hfx for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 11:32:49 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggpemm500003.china.huawei.com (7.185.36.56) by fraeml738-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.219) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 04:33:23 +0100 Received: from dggpemm500003.china.huawei.com (7.185.36.56) by dggpemm500003.china.huawei.com (7.185.36.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 11:33:22 +0800 Received: from dggpemm500003.china.huawei.com ([7.185.36.56]) by dggpemm500003.china.huawei.com ([7.185.36.56]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.020; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 11:33:22 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: please clarify the case statement's sub-statements Thread-Index: AdfidYN2sLw00C3hRXOIo3OU8zTspQ== Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 03:33:22 +0000 Message-ID: <0eeaa1a296b044b59ae4c5d958bc36f7@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.113.80] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0eeaa1a296b044b59ae4c5d958bc36f7huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] please clarify the case statement's sub-statements X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 03:33:30 -0000 --_000_0eeaa1a296b044b59ae4c5d958bc36f7huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgZm9sa3MgYW5kIG1hcnRpbiwNCiAgSaGvbSB3cml0aW5nIGEgeWFuZyBwYXJzZXIuIEkgbm90 aWNlIHRoZSBjYXNlIHN0YXRlbWVudCBoYXMgbm8goa5ub3RpZmljYXRpb26hryBhbmQgoa5hY3Rp b26hryBzdWItc3RhdGVtZW50cywgYnV0IGhhdmUgoa51c2Vzoa8gc3ViLXN0YXRlbWVudC4gQW5k IHRoZSChrmdyb3VwaW5noa8gc3RhdGVtZW50IGhhcyChrmFjdGlvbqGvIGFuZCChrm5vdGlmaWNh dGlvbqGvIHN1Yi1zdGF0ZW1lbnRzLiBJZiBjYXNloa9zIHVzZSBzdGF0ZW1lbnQgcG9pbnQgdG8g YSBncm91cGluZyh3ZSBhc3N1bWUgdGhlIGdyb3VwaW5nIGhhcyBhY3Rpb24gYW5kIG5vdGlmaWNh dGlvbiBzdGF0ZW1lbnRzKSwNClRoZSBjYXNlIHN0YXRlbWVudCBpbiBmYWN0IGhhcyChrmFjdGlv bqGvIGFuZCChrm5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbqGvIHN1Yi1zdGF0ZW1lbnRzKGV4cGFuZGVkIGJ5IHVzZXMp Lg0KICBTbywgd2h5IGNhc2Ugc3RhdGVtZW50IGNhbiBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydCBkZWZpbmUgoa5hY3Rp b26hryBhbmQgoa5ub3RpZmljYXRpb26hryBzdWItc3RhdGVtZW50cyBkaXJlY3RseT8NCg0Ksb7T yrz+vLDG5Li9vP66rNPQu6rOqrmry761xLGjw9zQxc+io6y99s/e09q3osvNuPjJz8PmtdjWt9bQ wdCz9rXEuPbIy7vyyLrX6aGjvfvWucjOus7G5Mv7yMvS1MjOus7Qzsq9yrnTw6OosPzAqLWrsrvP 3tPayKuyv7vysr+31rXY0LnCtqGiuLTWxqGiu/LJoreio6mxvtPKvP7W0LXE0MXPoqGjyOe5+8T6 tO3K1cHLsb7Tyrz+o6zH68T6waK8tLXnu7C78tPKvP7NqNaqt6K8/sjLsqLJvrP9sb7Tyrz+o6EN ClRoaXMgZS1tYWlsIGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgY29udGFpbiBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgaW5m b3JtYXRpb24gZnJvbSBIVUFXRUksIHdoaWNoIGlzIGludGVuZGVkIG9ubHkgZm9yIHRoZSBwZXJz b24gb3IgZW50aXR5IHdob3NlIGFkZHJlc3MgaXMgbGlzdGVkIGFib3ZlLiBBbnkgdXNlIG9mIHRo ZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBjb250YWluZWQgaGVyZWluIGluIGFueSB3YXkgKGluY2x1ZGluZywgYnV0 IG5vdCBsaW1pdGVkIHRvLCB0b3RhbCBvciBwYXJ0aWFsIGRpc2Nsb3N1cmUsIHJlcHJvZHVjdGlv biwgb3IgZGlzc2VtaW5hdGlvbikgYnkgcGVyc29ucyBvdGhlciB0aGFuIHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCBy ZWNpcGllbnQocykgaXMgcHJvaGliaXRlZC4gSWYgeW91IHJlY2VpdmUgdGhpcyBlLW1haWwgaW4g ZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBieSBwaG9uZSBvciBlbWFpbCBpbW1lZGlh dGVseSBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIGl0IQ0KDQo= --_000_0eeaa1a296b044b59ae4c5d958bc36f7huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi folks and martin,=

  I=A1=AFm writing a yang = parser. I notice the case statement has no =A1=AEnotification=A1=AF and =A1= =AEaction=A1=AF sub-statements, but have =A1=AEuses=A1=AF sub-statement. An= d the =A1=AEgrouping=A1=AF statement has =A1=AEaction=A1=AF and =A1=AEnotif= ication=A1=AF sub-statements. If case=A1=AFs use statement point to a grouping(we assume the grouping has a= ction and notification statements),

The case statement in fact has = =A1=AEaction=A1=AF and =A1=AEnotification=A1=AF sub-statements(expanded by = uses).

  So, why case statement c= an not support define =A1=AEaction=A1=AF and =A1=AEnotification=A1=AF sub-s= tatements directly?   

 

=B1=BE=D3=CA=BC=FE=BC=B0=C6=E4=B8=BD=BC=FE=BA=AC=D3=D0=BB=AA=CE=AA= =B9=AB=CB=BE=B5=C4=B1=A3=C3=DC=D0=C5=CF=A2=A3=AC=BD=F6=CF=DE=D3=DA=B7=A2=CB= =CD=B8=F8=C9=CF=C3=E6=B5=D8=D6=B7=D6=D0=C1=D0=B3=F6=B5=C4=B8=F6=C8=CB=BB=F2= =C8=BA=D7=E9=A1=A3=BD=FB=D6=B9=C8=CE=BA=CE=C6=E4=CB=FB=C8=CB=D2=D4=C8=CE=BA= =CE=D0=CE=CA=BD=CA=B9=D3=C3=A3=A8=B0=FC=C0=A8=B5=AB=B2=BB=CF=DE=D3=DA=C8=AB= =B2=BF=BB=F2=B2=BF=B7=D6=B5=D8=D0=B9=C2=B6=A1=A2=B8=B4=D6=C6=A1=A2=BB=F2=C9= =A2=B7=A2=A3=A9=B1=BE=D3=CA=BC=FE=D6=D0=B5=C4=D0=C5=CF=A2=A1=A3=C8=E7=B9=FB= =C4=FA=B4=ED=CA=D5=C1=CB=B1=BE=D3=CA=BC=FE=A3=AC=C7=EB=C4=FA=C1=A2=BC=B4=B5= =E7=BB=B0=BB=F2=D3=CA=BC=FE=CD=A8=D6=AA=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=B2=A2=C9=BE=B3=FD= =B1=BE=D3=CA=BC=FE=A3=A1

This e-mail and its attachments contain confidentia= l information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein= in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, re= production, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(= s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediate= ly and delete it!<= /o:p>

 

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Fri, 26 Nov 2021 02:09:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 08:09:22 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20211126.080922.1911931294970528451.id@4668.se> To: frank.fengchong=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: <0eeaa1a296b044b59ae4c5d958bc36f7@huawei.com> References: <0eeaa1a296b044b59ae4c5d958bc36f7@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] please clarify the case statement's sub-statements X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 07:09:37 -0000 SGksDQoNCg0KIkZlbmdjaG9uZyBcKGZyYW5rXCkiIDxmcmFuay5mZW5nY2hvbmc9NDBodWF3ZWku Y29tQGRtYXJjLmlldGYub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gSGkgZm9sa3MgYW5kIG1hcnRpbiwNCj4gICBJ 4oCZbSB3cml0aW5nIGEgeWFuZyBwYXJzZXIuIEkgbm90aWNlIHRoZSBjYXNlIHN0YXRlbWVudCBo YXMgbm8g4oCYbm90aWZpY2F0aW9u4oCZIGFuZCDigJhhY3Rpb27igJkgc3ViLXN0YXRlbWVudHMs IGJ1dCBoYXZlIOKAmHVzZXPigJkgc3ViLXN0YXRlbWVudC4gQW5kIHRoZSDigJhncm91cGluZ+KA mSBzdGF0ZW1lbnQgaGFzIOKAmGFjdGlvbuKAmSBhbmQg4oCYbm90aWZpY2F0aW9u4oCZIHN1Yi1z dGF0ZW1lbnRzLiBJZiBjYXNl4oCZcyB1c2Ugc3RhdGVtZW50IHBvaW50IHRvIGEgZ3JvdXBpbmco d2UgYXNzdW1lIHRoZSBncm91cGluZyBoYXMgYWN0aW9uIGFuZCBub3RpZmljYXRpb24gc3RhdGVt ZW50cyksDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgbm90IGFsbG93ZWQuDQoNClNlY3Rpb24gNy4xNSBzYXlzOg0KDQog ICBTaW5jZSBhbiBhY3Rpb24gY2Fubm90IGJlIGRlZmluZWQgYXQgdGhlIHRvcCBsZXZlbCBvZiBh IG1vZHVsZSBvciBpbg0KICAgYSAiY2FzZSIgc3RhdGVtZW50LCBpdCBpcyBhbiBlcnJvciBpZiBh IGdyb3VwaW5nIHRoYXQgY29udGFpbnMgYW4NCiAgIGFjdGlvbiBhdCB0aGUgdG9wIG9mIGl0cyBu b2RlIGhpZXJhcmNoeSBpcyB1c2VkIGF0IHRoZSB0b3AgbGV2ZWwgb2YgYQ0KICAgbW9kdWxlIG9y IGluIGEgY2FzZSBkZWZpbml0aW9uLg0KDQoNClNlY3Rpb24gNy4xNiBzYXlzOg0KDQogICBTaW5j ZSBhIG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBjYW5ub3QgYmUgZGVmaW5lZCBpbiBhICJjYXNlIiBzdGF0ZW1lbnQs IGl0IGlzDQogICBhbiBlcnJvciBpZiBhIGdyb3VwaW5nIHRoYXQgY29udGFpbnMgYSBub3RpZmlj YXRpb24gYXQgdGhlIHRvcCBvZiBpdHMNCiAgIG5vZGUgaGllcmFyY2h5IGlzIHVzZWQgaW4gYSBj YXNlIGRlZmluaXRpb24uDQoNCg0KKEJ1dCBzZWUgaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL25ldG1vZC13 Zy95YW5nLW5leHQvaXNzdWVzLzg0KQ0KDQoNCg0KL21hcnRpbg0KDQoNCj4gVGhlIGNhc2Ugc3Rh dGVtZW50IGluIGZhY3QgaGFzIOKAmGFjdGlvbuKAmSBhbmQg4oCYbm90aWZpY2F0aW9u4oCZIHN1 Yi1zdGF0ZW1lbnRzKGV4cGFuZGVkIGJ5IHVzZXMpLg0KPiAgIFNvLCB3aHkgY2FzZSBzdGF0ZW1l bnQgY2FuIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0IGRlZmluZSDigJhhY3Rpb27igJkgYW5kIOKAmG5vdGlmaWNhdGlv buKAmSBzdWItc3RhdGVtZW50cyBkaXJlY3RseT8NCg0KDQoNCg0KPiANCj4g5pys6YKu5Lu25Y+K 5YW26ZmE5Lu25ZCr5pyJ5Y2O5Li65YWs5Y+455qE5L+d5a+G5L+h5oGv77yM5LuF6ZmQ5LqO5Y+R 6YCB57uZ5LiK6Z2i5Zyw5Z2A5Lit5YiX5Ye655qE5Liq5Lq65oiW576k57uE44CC56aB5q2i5Lu7 5L2V5YW25LuW5Lq65Lul5Lu75L2V5b2i5byP5L2/55So77yI5YyF5ous5L2G5LiN6ZmQ5LqO5YWo 6YOo5oiW6YOo5YiG5Zyw5rOE6Zyy44CB5aSN5Yi244CB5oiW5pWj5Y+R77yJ5pys6YKu5Lu25Lit 55qE5L+h5oGv44CC5aaC5p6c5oKo6ZSZ5pS25LqG5pys6YKu5Lu277yM6K+35oKo56uL5Y2z55S1 6K+d5oiW6YKu5Lu26YCa55+l5Y+R5Lu25Lq65bm25Yig6Zmk5pys6YKu5Lu277yBDQo+IFRoaXMg ZS1tYWlsIGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgY29udGFpbiBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgaW5mb3JtYXRp b24gZnJvbSBIVUFXRUksIHdoaWNoIGlzIGludGVuZGVkIG9ubHkgZm9yIHRoZSBwZXJzb24gb3Ig ZW50aXR5IHdob3NlIGFkZHJlc3MgaXMgbGlzdGVkIGFib3ZlLiBBbnkgdXNlIG9mIHRoZSBpbmZv cm1hdGlvbiBjb250YWluZWQgaGVyZWluIGluIGFueSB3YXkgKGluY2x1ZGluZywgYnV0IG5vdCBs aW1pdGVkIHRvLCB0b3RhbCBvciBwYXJ0aWFsIGRpc2Nsb3N1cmUsIHJlcHJvZHVjdGlvbiwgb3Ig ZGlzc2VtaW5hdGlvbikgYnkgcGVyc29ucyBvdGhlciB0aGFuIHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGll bnQocykgaXMgcHJvaGliaXRlZC4gSWYgeW91IHJlY2VpdmUgdGhpcyBlLW1haWwgaW4gZXJyb3Is IHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBieSBwaG9uZSBvciBlbWFpbCBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBh bmQgZGVsZXRlIGl0IQ0KPiANCg== From nobody Fri Nov 26 00:30:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95093A0C18 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 00:30:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eiteKhczQBbz for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 00:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 948823A0C15 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 00:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ECE3A13FC28; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 09:30:00 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1637915401; bh=RTAFxGeVjGNMBVGYm6oiRRwx1Smg3qbVKc1fPajn5mE=; h=From:To:Date; b=OykYzjEl7VpJmfL0ABkXUkYvpegguaWI8Ul3VROV6ohZIogBSK9VJTxnYrhjQ+Zs8 5x4r2nt1pqXu01cvgppfNye7EbALT+lyGFYpus7jdy/iGMy/h2MccoCEXOSgBXdJ/J UI7l4stNDIAXH4KH7CfoJk5V5PrqYZXld72IVrSo= From: Ladislav Lhotka To: tom petch , "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <87o86ahsy1.fsf@nic.cz> Mail-Followup-To: tom petch , "netmod@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 09:30:00 +0100 Message-ID: <87pmqnb9pz.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.4 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 08:30:10 -0000 tom petch writes: > From: netmod on behalf of Ladislav Lhotka > Sent: 24 November 2021 08:13 > > Hi, > > I tried to generalize the approach of RFC 9108 and develop XSLT stylesheets for generating YANG modules directly from IANA registries. The results are in this GitHub project: > > https://github.com/llhotka/iana-yang > > So far I have processed 22 registries - most of them are related to DNS, but I also tried to include a few from other areas. After cloning the project, all YANG modules can be generated by running "make" in the top-level directory. > > Adding a new registry is usually quite simple, although some hide nasty surprises such as duplicate entries. Also, in most cases it is quite clear how to do the translation, but sometimes input from domain experts might be needed. > > I can see two immediate advantages of this approach: > > * There is a single source of truth - the registry itself; IANA needn't > maintain the YANG module separately. > > * The initial revision of a registry-based YANG module needn't be published in > an RFC that is not intended to be updated. There are concerns that people > may extract such a module from the RFC long after it becomes obsolete. > > Please let me know what you think about this. > > > An IANA registry can contain any number of columns meaning an infinite variety of things - TLS comes to mind. A YANG module is more limited. Having both in an RFC shows how to map the registry into YANG. Such a module isn't meant as a replacement of the registry, developers will most likely need to consult both. Contents of extra columns may either appear in the description (as in iana-dnssec-algorithms), or may be omitted (as in iana-structured-syntax-suffix). And yes, as I wrote domain experts' input may be needed, perhaps in the form of an RFC. However, it is not ideal to include a complete YANG module (initial revision) based on a random snapshot of the registry in such an RFC. In DNSOP WG this turned out to be a no-go, and after discussing a few alternatives we came up with an XSLT stylesheet as kind of a recipe from which IANA made the initial revision. I understand that XSLT isn't everyone's favourite language, but I don't know about a better choice for this purpose. Perhaps the RFC could just explain the rules for the translation in the text (with examples). > > And what do yo do with Early Allocation, which can last more than a year? Sorry, I am not familiar with early allocations, what could be the problem here? Lada > > Tom Petch > > Thanks, Lada > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri Nov 26 00:48:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BBAF3A0C2F for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 00:48:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6UBS96njXQ7C for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 00:48:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4FEC3A0C2D for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 00:48:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F800140BCF; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 09:48:08 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1637916488; bh=bs8d/kSQe1M591+WhKwWORyDLuJTmlJAujp3NI+xaic=; h=From:To:Date; b=Kh2zU4N4hQ8C8tYsLVwMw3i/eG5p3tBrIw21fabxUBhYTSvWA+k2J5ubxBV80S8Mi fmcyb4327Pgylno80K9N2NnrtWAz7jbbuRztrlcN6tThenynliHu79ru8fiInEQE0O j9cgLFwmwzzBJchnoAFHMf62P16m2YVHKt10AXhs= From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Carsten Bormann Cc: netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <87o86ahsy1.fsf@nic.cz> Mail-Followup-To: Carsten Bormann , netmod@ietf.org Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 09:48:08 +0100 Message-ID: <87mtlrb8vr.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.4 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 08:48:16 -0000 Carsten Bormann writes: > On 2021-11-24, at 09:13, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> Please let me know what you think about this. > > I think it is amazing. > > So for each registry, you have > > =E2=80=94 manually extracted an information model and kept that in your h= ead, Well, my old head doesn't serve me that well anymore, I was just looking in= to the registry web page and XML.=20 > =E2=80=94 written code that translates the information you could extract = from the XML form of the registry into a YANG data model (note that this da= ta model is not defining the registry, but it is the translated content of = the registry) Right, and IANA needn't be involved at all. > > This is certainly highly useful. > It also requires to essentially start from scratch for each new registry. Registry schemas are quite diverse, so a universal translation procedure is= n't possible. Also, some decisions may be necessary on the YANG side - for = example, whether the registry records are to be represented as enums or ide= ntities. In most cases, writing a registry-specific translation isn't difficult and = amounts to copying Makefile and XSLT stylesheet templates, editing paramete= rs in the Makefile and writing a few XSLT lines. > Shouldn=E2=80=99t registries come with a machine readable information mod= el? Actually, RELAX NG schemas are available, for example https://www.iana.org/assignments/dns-parameters/dns-parameters.rng They are useful for clarifying what to expect in the registry but don't hel= p much with automating the translation.=20 > Shouldn=E2=80=99t it then be =E2=80=9Ceasy=E2=80=9D to build a generic to= ol that creates a YANG model out of the data in the registry? Ideally, YANG might be able to directly "import" registries, but this is qu= ite difficult to achieve because registries are not very uniform. Thanks, Lada > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > --=20 Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri Nov 26 00:58:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D496F3A0C36 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 00:58:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QKd65UimeLHI for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 00:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50BB53A0C3B for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 00:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a436.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.164.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4J0pYf4dSrz2xG3; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 09:58:14 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <87mtlrb8vr.fsf@nic.cz> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 09:58:14 +0100 Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 659609894.2683361-868a12893460dcd8e24356a27673146d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6E756634-88E0-4E43-A68B-5A4713F4F225@tzi.org> References: <87o86ahsy1.fsf@nic.cz> <87mtlrb8vr.fsf@nic.cz> To: Ladislav Lhotka X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 08:58:25 -0000 Hi Lada, > On 2021-11-26, at 09:48, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >=20 > Carsten Bormann writes: >=20 >> On 2021-11-24, at 09:13, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Please let me know what you think about this. >>=20 >> I think it is amazing. >>=20 >> So for each registry, you have >>=20 >> =E2=80=94 manually extracted an information model and kept that in = your head, >=20 > Well, my old head doesn't serve me that well anymore, I was just = looking into the registry web page and XML.=20 Indeed, so you had to apply human intelligence to produce information = that is not available for the registry. >> =E2=80=94 written code that translates the information you could = extract from the XML form of the registry into a YANG data model (note = that this data model is not defining the registry, but it is the = translated content of the registry) >=20 > Right, and IANA needn't be involved at all. In the long run, we will need to make sure we actually capture the = information model for registries (at the time the registries are created = and updated, when the experts are in the house). >> This is certainly highly useful. >> It also requires to essentially start from scratch for each new = registry. >=20 > Registry schemas are quite diverse, so a universal translation = procedure isn't possible. (That=E2=80=99s why I said we need to capture the information model. There is not a single one that applies to every registry.) > Also, some decisions may be necessary on the YANG side - for example, = whether the registry records are to be represented as enums or = identities. Right, that is essentially the the IM =E2=9E=94 DM mapping, and that = needs to be done for each kind of DM (unless the IM already contains = enough hints to carry this out by default). > In most cases, writing a registry-specific translation isn't difficult = and amounts to copying Makefile and XSLT stylesheet templates, editing = parameters in the Makefile and writing a few XSLT lines. I=E2=80=99m not questioning this, I just note that this is a mostly = manual process that will be hard to maintain in the long run. >> Shouldn=E2=80=99t registries come with a machine readable information = model? >=20 > Actually, RELAX NG schemas are available, for example >=20 > https://www.iana.org/assignments/dns-parameters/dns-parameters.rng These are data models for the registry page, not the underlying = information models. > They are useful for clarifying what to expect in the registry but = don't help much with automating the translation.=20 (Because the IM info is missing.) >> Shouldn=E2=80=99t it then be =E2=80=9Ceasy=E2=80=9D to build a = generic tool that creates a YANG model out of the data in the registry? >=20 > Ideally, YANG might be able to directly "import" registries, but this = is quite difficult to achieve because registries are not very uniform. =E2=80=A6 and you=E2=80=99d need the IM info (and any DM mapping hints). .oOo. I don=E2=80=99t want to hold up this effort by trying to do this = properly, but I note that YANG is not the only target DM that registries = would need to translate info. (And you=E2=80=99ll note that I=E2=80=99m thinking like an SDF author = here=E2=80=A6) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Nov 29 05:32:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506BE3A0913 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 05:32:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.951 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.951 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.852, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hq.sk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N5hT9fUrB2Q5 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 05:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F7E03A07E4 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 05:32:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.146] (chello085216197060.chello.sk [85.216.197.60]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9B19A243C3B; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:32:01 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1638192721; bh=zpLV7aXVEeqmw853nV5h0t3Iglw3y/9Ry+bb8DrSBUc=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=oVUbdsRMkPwRux9goljJGTWg2j6j393ExSHMQVMxZ2z+TJz5riDIRdz81pu5qc2Wh NbTzI7VFJztRZPxFtx2nlRCcnlCtav+qgsSV+hMuE+L9zNhCz0YcohFBQutrRPO3e2 L1XQ/pPsrKq5J4jUDd+88PGtaNBVGnqELgtq9B6M= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:32:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 Content-Language: en-US To: tom petch , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <87o86ahsy1.fsf@nic.cz> <87pmqnb9pz.fsf@nic.cz> From: Robert Varga In-Reply-To: <87pmqnb9pz.fsf@nic.cz> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------qipzJIqFQHrtep0WvVYRRGvx" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:32:14 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------qipzJIqFQHrtep0WvVYRRGvx Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:48:05 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: YANG Versioning Call Nov 30: Agenda & Topics Thread-Index: AdflJ5HM0/DJPT18RsicXxn5NzoBew== Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:48:05 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7cdab146-864c-4998-a329-08d9b33edeca x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR08MB4988: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:826; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_DM6PR08MB508468050DFFC749495197089B669DM6PR08MB5084namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR08MB5084.namprd08.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7cdab146-864c-4998-a329-08d9b33edeca X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Nov 2021 13:48:05.6282 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 2OH8q02rFDgid3ZdAms+sQPzfyHcRbgwIt0ts0FEcjhj7AIUkMQg3dqxEmvGpHNVKdMyVPbvWemSA1WVX9vUAA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR08MB4988 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG Versioning Call Nov 30: Agenda & Topics X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:48:13 -0000 --_000_DM6PR08MB508468050DFFC749495197089B669DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the planned key discussion topics for the weekly YANG Versioning c= all tomorrow. Everyone is welcome and encouraged to join the call. Call det= ails are below. - review Balazs's response for Issue #65 (revision label scheme for Package= s) - review Jason's text for Issue #84 (motivation for the _COMPAT extension o= n YANG Semver) - review text authors provide for other open packages issues - continue with these issues: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/74 https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/76 Rgds, Jason From: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2021 1:18 PM To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-23 YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-23 Today we discussed Jan's alternative approach for how Packages and YANG Lib= rary fit together. We agreed we need further discussion (target =3D 2 weeks from now, Dec 7 ca= ll). Jan will try to give an example of an instance data document for the new pr= oposal. Jan & Jason (+ input from Rob) will try to put together a comparison of cli= ent & server exchange & logic for the new proposal vs the current packages = draft. Rob proposed we look at 2 scenarios: 1) client & server both know & understand the top level package(s) 2) client doesn't understand the top package(s) and needs to dig further in= to the package contents Topics for next meeting: - review Balazs's response for Issue #65 (revision label scheme for Package= s) - review Jason's text for Issue #84 (motivation for the _COMPAT extension o= n YANG Semver) - review text authors provide for other open packages issues - continue with these issues: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/74 https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/76 - in 2 weeks (Dec 7) we'll continue with the Packages & Library discussion Jason ---------------------------------------------- Weekly webex call details: Meeting number (access code): 161 096 5630 Meeting password: semver? Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, November 16, 2021 from 9:00 AM to 1= 0:00 AM, (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) 9:00 AM | (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) | 1 hr https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dme2c6491ebcc37b8127c1244d244d2754 Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only) +1-650-479-3208,,1610965630## Call-in toll number (US/Canada) --_000_DM6PR08MB508468050DFFC749495197089B669DM6PR08MB5084namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here are the planned key discussion topics for the w= eekly YANG Versioning call tomorrow. Everyone is welcome and encouraged to = join the call. Call details are below.

 

- review Balazs's response for Issue #65 (revision l= abel scheme for Packages)

- review Jason's text for Issue #84 (motivation for = the _COMPAT extension on YANG Semver)

- review text authors provide for other open package= s issues

- continue with these issues:

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/74

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/76

 

Rgds,

Jason

 

From: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2021 1:18 PM
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-23=

 

YANG Versioning Weekly Call Minutes - 2021-11-23

 

Today we discussed Jan's alternative approach for ho= w Packages and YANG Library fit together.

 

We agreed we need further discussion (target =3D 2 w= eeks from now, Dec 7 call).

 

Jan will try to give an example of an instance data = document for the new proposal.

 

Jan & Jason (+ input from Rob) will try to put t= ogether a comparison of client & server exchange & logic for the ne= w proposal vs the current packages draft.  Rob proposed we look at 2 s= cenarios:

1) client & server both know & understand th= e top level package(s)

2) client doesn't understand the top package(s) and = needs to dig further into the package contents

 

Topics for next meeting:

- review Balazs's response for Issue #65 (revision l= abel scheme for Packages)

- review Jason's text for Issue #84 (motivation for = the _COMPAT extension on YANG Semver)

- review text authors provide for other open package= s issues

- continue with these issues:

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/74

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/76

- in 2 weeks (Dec 7) we'll continue with the Package= s & Library discussion

 

Jason

 

----------------------------------------------<= /o:p>

Weekly webex call details:

 

Meeting number (access code): 161 096 5630

Meeting password: semver?

 

Occurs every Tuesday effective Tuesday, November 16,= 2021 from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)

9:00 AM  |  (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US &= amp; Canada)  |  1 hr

 

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID= =3Dme2c6491ebcc37b8127c1244d244d2754

Tap to join from a mobile device (attendees only)

+1-650-479-3208,,1610965630## Call-in toll number (U= S/Canada)

--_000_DM6PR08MB508468050DFFC749495197089B669DM6PR08MB5084namp_-- From nobody Mon Nov 29 05:48:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551DD3A08B9 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 05:48:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.852, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QjD3OwK_TjF0 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 05:48:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7AC43A0A05 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 05:48:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPV6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8] (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 063B5140A3D; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:48:27 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1638193707; bh=cg/OtlDaansfpEkUGL69yc2k3qurI83dczFK0RlKI6o=; h=Date:To:From; b=ghlQIvX170HVFbVXpJuUklHjTDWQ1Jn1SxfQbZK33sJcEzPeQEBzl/9kPgTdyiQVU vN+/ukcVRtivVR5iEkio8cSAjuuVKLwe+6CJ7FvDsK3TH7VGrZV/QZOtbTdHSbTJ99 EG4H0q6gXJCu+TPtw+uLp/IjNZpk/j0UdlYgdhnM= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:48:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.2 Content-Language: en-US To: Robert Varga , tom petch , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <87o86ahsy1.fsf@nic.cz> <87pmqnb9pz.fsf@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka Organization: CZ.NIC In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.4 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:48:35 -0000 On 29. 11. 21 14:32, Robert Varga wrote: > On 26/11/2021 09:30, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> And what do yo do with Early Allocation, which can last more than a >>> year? >> Sorry, I am not familiar with early allocations, what could be the >> problem here? > > The problem is that early allocations are temporary and automatically > expire in 12 months (relinquishing the code point) unless refreshed by > the requester -- see https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7120#section-3.3 > for details. I see. So if the temporarily allocated code point disappears from the registry, it won't be present in the YANG module either, if it is generated later. If YANG was able to read the registry directly, it would be the same. Cheers, Lada > > Regards, > Robert > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Nov 29 14:09:04 2021 Return-Path: <0100017d6dbe6f00-1f424f2e-1faa-433b-bd36-a2b299a3764d-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 552CE3A0A92 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:09:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id su7H9RbfK1mc for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:08:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E180A3A0A8C for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:08:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1638223736; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=1SiXc/TZWq8ADCnwmuAUtNP+QmTw65gvhvKO9Kc+igc=; b=d/PkK+/bido+Xuz50VgHoBYZ88lHGfjz5/+29IcMDj/RJxvQ3FUn+6KQhag/ufOp S5ekheB2ksHa8a/sfX9zQCilU0prV2NJmGYoGcDySdsUTHKYwRJhG7tzJxZxRW68Jf5 epZu97XJL5YU9+BunM3A8JTG7FC/PnoL149TrMX8= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017d6dbe6f00-1f424f2e-1faa-433b-bd36-a2b299a3764d-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E768F489-4B6A-428D-B2E2-21503A230DCB" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 22:08:56 +0000 In-Reply-To: <7511E143-A08F-4089-89CB-17F74C2E9CCE@tail-f.com> Cc: "Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" , "maqiufang (A)" , "netmod@ietf.org" To: Jan Lindblad References: <0df9454875b54804b42ec2f5cc6b151f@huawei.com> <7511E143-A08F-4089-89CB-17F74C2E9CCE@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.11.29-54.240.8.31 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Must offline-validation of alone be valid? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 22:09:02 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E768F489-4B6A-428D-B2E2-21503A230DCB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Jan, > On Nov 23, 2021, at 12:56 PM, Jan Lindblad wrote: >=20 > Sergio, Qiufang, >=20 >> Hi Jan, >> You correctly wrote: >> =20 >> Then the choices become: >> Offline validation of alone is NOT required >> Servers internally validate via validating >> =20 >> SB> but in fact this is what declared, for my understanding, in RFC = 8342, for which =E2=80=9Cvalidation=E2=80=9D is done on =E2=80=9Cintended=E2= =80=9D by the server , as also shown in figure 2 of the RFC. Is it = needed to change also RFC? >=20 > According to RFC 8342, *both* running and intended have to be valid at = all times. Section 5.1.3 says: >=20 > 5.1.3 . = The Running Configuration Datastore () >=20 > ... > However, > MUST always be a valid configuration data tree, as = defined > in Section=C2=A08.1 of [RFC7950] = . >=20 > Section 8.1 of RFC 7950 was the section I referred to in my previous = comment. Section 5.1.4 says: >=20 > 5.1.4 . = The Intended Configuration Datastore () >=20 > ... > is tightly coupled to . Whenever data is = written > to , the server MUST also immediately update and validate > . > =20 > In my judgement, changing the fundaments of RFC 7950 and 8342 is not = going to happen any time soon (for good reason), and there are other = (better) options. >=20 >> Offline validation of alone IS required >> Options: >> Clients MUST copy/paste any referenced system configuration into = , even though it goes against our objective of avoiding-copy = when possible. >> Defer work to be a YANG-next effort. >=20 > In order to move forward, I would propose working out some more = options in this list. I have suggested a few to the authors that I think = are better than the two above, but I will leave it to the authors make = the call for what they want to bring up for discussion. >=20 I don=E2=80=99t think the case has been made that *offline* validation = of by itself must be valid. Yes, *online* must be = valid, as must , with the intention of RFC 8342 being that = both are validated in one and the same operation by the server (known = to me as an author of RFC 8342). I understand that implementations may = have assumed offline validation of must be valid, I just = can=E2=80=99t find the RFC reference that demands it be supported, and = without such reference, it falls into an undefined area. Necessitating = offline validation of , if that is what the WG decides, results = in solutions for which none seem nice to me, at least I haven=E2=80=99t = seen any yet. Please share any =E2=80=9Cbetter options=E2=80=9D you = have in mind. =20 In the meanwhile, can we discuss the issues around a legacy client = failing an offline validation? In this case, a production deployment = must have 1) deployed devices that support , 2) deployed at = least one client that supports , and 3) decided to let clients = start pushing config using . While in the pre-production = testing phase, it would be quickly discovered that all legacy clients = need to be updated. By the time of going to production, the deployment = should have all the clients updated, so it seems that only the forgotten = (relatively insignificant) clients might have an offline validation of = failure. Is this a fair assessment? Kent // as a contributor --Apple-Mail=_E768F489-4B6A-428D-B2E2-21503A230DCB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8


Hi Jan,


On Nov 23, 2021, at 12:56 PM, = Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com> wrote:

Sergio, Qiufang,

Hi Jan,
You correctly wrote:
 
Then = the choices become:
    • Offline = validation of <running> alone is NOT required
      • Servers internally validate <running> via = validating <intended>
      •  
SB> but in fact this is what declared, for my = understanding, in RFC 8342, for which =E2=80=9Cvalidation=E2=80=9D is = done on =E2=80=9Cintended=E2=80=9D by the server , as also shown in = figure 2 of the RFC. Is it needed to change also = RFC?

According to RFC 8342, *both* running = and intended have to be valid at all times. Section 5.1.3 = says:

5.1.3=
.  The Running Configuration Datastore (<running>)

...
             =
                                            However,
   <running> MUST always be a valid configuration data tree, as =
defined
   in Section 8.1 of [RFC7950].

Section 8.1 of RFC 7950 was the section = I referred to in my previous comment. Section 5.1.4 says:

5.1.4=
.  The Intended Configuration Datastore (<intended>)

...
   <intended> is tightly =
coupled to <running>.  Whenever data is written
   to <running>, the server MUST also immediately update and =
validate
   <intended>.
 
In my judgement, = changing the fundaments of RFC 7950 and 8342 is not going to happen any = time soon (for good reason), and there are other (better) = options.

    • Offline validation of <running> alone IS = required
      • Options:
        1. Clients MUST copy/paste = any referenced system configuration into <running>, even = though it goes against our objective of avoiding-copy = when possible.
        2. Defer work to be a = YANG-next effort.

In order to move = forward, I would propose working out some more options in this list. I = have suggested a few to the authors that I think are better than the two = above, but I will leave it to the authors make the call for what they = want to bring up for discussion.



I don=E2=80=99t think the case has = been made that *offline* validation of <running> by itself must be = valid.  Yes, *online* <running> must be valid, as must = <intended>, with the intention of RFC 8342 being that both are = validated in one and the same operation by the server  (known to me = as an author of RFC 8342).  I understand that implementations may = have assumed offline validation of <running> must be valid, I just = can=E2=80=99t find the RFC reference that demands it be supported, and = without such reference, it falls into an undefined area. =  Necessitating offline validation of <running>, if that is = what the WG decides, results in solutions for which none seem nice to = me, at least I haven=E2=80=99t seen any yet.  Please share any = =E2=80=9Cbetter options=E2=80=9D you have in mind.  

In the meanwhile, can we discuss the issues around a legacy = client failing an offline validation?  In this case, a production = deployment must have 1) deployed devices that support <system>, 2) = deployed at least one client that supports <system>, and 3) = decided to let clients start pushing config using <system>.   = While in the pre-production testing phase, it would be quickly = discovered that all legacy clients need to be updated.  By the time = of going to production, the deployment should have all the clients = updated, so it seems that only the forgotten (relatively insignificant) = clients might have an offline validation of <running> failure. =  Is this a fair assessment?

Kent // as a = contributor


= --Apple-Mail=_E768F489-4B6A-428D-B2E2-21503A230DCB-- From nobody Mon Nov 29 14:49:40 2021 Return-Path: <0100017d6de3a63d-89d0e981-5347-47be-9779-52d70ccbcda6-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6319C3A07BA for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:49:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IXLVuCiYYKjE for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:49:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57D1A3A07AC for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:49:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1638226176; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=YuurliGAbA0IFJb0uwkeY3SE8dYR2omKBu6u/ML4tr0=; b=EHAYu3NP9lVIA9zpJCzyTFLjIpIG53MpftC7SqzXKpbHkDPerxZFzwtiOhr6EPQg O0lrQJbIO0nLj8/IsQgPhGw7ClyFZmZECVyf/KOpdPcu6UF8c8+O5lqOXs6IcfATtLd LP/0Q2/OvC4XSyUWk7qx8p1b/m9HZZ+HURuFNHeg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 22:49:35 +0000 Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "maqiufang (A)" , =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100017d6de3a63d-89d0e981-5347-47be-9779-52d70ccbcda6-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <20211124.114340.856721981810780593.id@4668.se> <20211125114733.phenv7mktyed6d4v@anna> <20211125.130155.1636018839435459937.id@4668.se> <20211125130128.ogpuzktbdyp6yydj@anna> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.11.29-54.240.8.83 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 22:49:38 -0000 Hi Andy, > RFC 7950 rules about leafref validation are very clear. > Adding a new datastore to these rules requires a massive change to = NMDA > and all implementations. Not really or, rather, it seems like it would be just part of adding = support for , which implies adding support for (if = not supported already) and doing the validation on instead. > 2) As Juergen points out, servers populate the system config in = and the operator is > free to ignore it, reference it, or possibly change it. The premise = of seems to > be that this approach is not "pure enough" for NMDA and MUST = only contain > operator-created configuration. Why? What real problems would this = change solve? Servers populating (beyond coping into ) = has never been a supported idea. We=E2=80=99ve always maintained that = should only contain client-provided config, right? I=E2=80=99m unsure what the =E2=80=9Cchange=E2=80=9D in your last = question points to. But note that on JUNOS-based systems, there are = many hundreds of system-defined nodes available to be referenced by = config in . Putting all these nodes into would = clutter the config immensely. =20 FWIW, JUNOS =E2=80=9Csolves=E2=80=9D this by *hiding* these = system-nodes, such that clients must use a special command just to = discover them. And, yes, if ever any of these are hidden-nodes are = reference, offline-validation of will fail. The = datastore being discussed effectively mimics this aspect of the JUNOS = solution. There is a separate thread for if *offline* validation of = *alone* must succeed. The soft (fallback) solution is to have clients = copy/paste the referenced-subset of the system-defined nodes into = . The theory being that, since it=E2=80=99s just a subset, it = won=E2=80=99t clutter things up too badly and, as it is already the case = that some system-defined nodes must be copy/pasted into in = order for clients to configure descendent nodes (e.g., some tunable for = the system-defined =E2=80=9Clo=E2=80=9D interface), the water is already = over the bridge, so to speak, on the copy/pasting debate. The only = holdout for not already demanding client=E2=80=99s also copy/paste the = subset of referenced system-defined nodes is that it is completely = unnecessary, unless trying to ensure offline validation of = alone. > Andy Kent, as a contributor. From nobody Mon Nov 29 15:14:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3DFF3A0B09 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 15:14:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JYJFuuLsBKsc for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 15:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEA523A0B03 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 15:14:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id r26so48758519lfn.8 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 15:14:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Ufb+DK1s4zNl15HduiI//mNCMgw5iUYSR4yf6nADcrA=; b=EGKTRthh2CuDNeyV0Zp2JgY/vpyVEd3EEtvO6rFgwrSvT8upPzIT+1fYsSxhkK4rkK smp9S8Jgltjh4v/Z8ocY/a5jMMUQW3fvLxHDB4tksrG84iahjOI0aXr3bthVG0BPMAAA ACoXVPJyjUyUuOhCyAoc69iKFJ68cER8hwMnTl3fLmBsi9rAbJ8ibFJrX+ZGAWTYquvi wNasWFBzUkL4MigOnoL03v6YUnIr7KmEEkCcCwsZCj0z0CjLPJU680grm7c0ZR12Rxbn aBee83pK7O86n1ES9iLlYv6xx5J2PJ4j9zwrtyR/2MWdGwWafxJn9Wcozm3hlEhAsv/E 85sA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Ufb+DK1s4zNl15HduiI//mNCMgw5iUYSR4yf6nADcrA=; b=XfIOqV4lHzIzB7nuSwbGlcxWhajw9BfbZeQ4WHFr364/LAGVxD9hAjGukWE6EUfJwZ /ANvBWg9mo98h+G3mshFBsBiFeMNhktsuZDoXvHlh5cCL88AXnFgBqJtm17UTfdgy0ap 7lgE8nplCEaZDl32FaELChcm3em2tLPcHBHMR+BVQlrch0skysfAREBrs2UC0xI0ABrt FbNjzNtlsKJJX8l7i2e97MOjKNA1g779OffW97T1URBh2adzGdciYcN3v5k7mqlCDRs3 Fu+/HduDzUkpiyw9q/Ni3qgD5JE9MriIQD+04kVqRPupm2ElzU7kDZifP/X1+XF8BNb8 pMzA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ifYRuv3pluwDiUvisYdw6HzVoBwsvBJe8ULryxwMhHP2u1wol as+qAbaO5vJO+ZpPi6ocUH9up9iC9I7T28n2174/3Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzzcOR/tzqJ0cCgrW/I+7Adz3Zd9+zIOzZZFYq5shwqxCcUJTjFLJ38hyGqAOAMdb2xE5ANHxYp9DmEStSgqOM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3341:: with SMTP id y1mr49014940lfd.635.1638227657028; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 15:14:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211124.114340.856721981810780593.id@4668.se> <20211125114733.phenv7mktyed6d4v@anna> <20211125.130155.1636018839435459937.id@4668.se> <20211125130128.ogpuzktbdyp6yydj@anna> <0100017d6de3a63d-89d0e981-5347-47be-9779-52d70ccbcda6-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100017d6de3a63d-89d0e981-5347-47be-9779-52d70ccbcda6-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 15:14:06 -0800 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "maqiufang (A)" , =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008f0bd005d1f59943" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 23:14:25 -0000 --0000000000008f0bd005d1f59943 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 2:49 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > > RFC 7950 rules about leafref validation are very clear. > > Adding a new datastore to these rules requires a massive change to NMDA > > and all implementations. > > Not really or, rather, it seems like it would be just part of adding > support for , which implies adding support for (if not > supported already) and doing the validation on instead. > > > > 2) As Juergen points out, servers populate the system config in > and the operator is > > free to ignore it, reference it, or possibly change it. The premise of > seems to > > be that this approach is not "pure enough" for NMDA and MUST > only contain > > operator-created configuration. Why? What real problems would this > change solve? > > Servers populating (beyond coping into ) has > never been a supported idea. We=E2=80=99ve always maintained that should > only contain client-provided config, right? > > I=E2=80=99m unsure what the =E2=80=9Cchange=E2=80=9D in your last questio= n points to. But note > that on JUNOS-based systems, there are many hundreds of system-defined > nodes available to be referenced by config in . Putting all the= se > nodes into would clutter the config immensely. > > FWIW, JUNOS =E2=80=9Csolves=E2=80=9D this by *hiding* these system-nodes,= such that > clients must use a special command just to discover them. And, yes, if > ever any of these are hidden-nodes are reference, offline-validation of > will fail. The datastore being discussed effectively > mimics this aspect of the JUNOS solution. > > There is a separate thread for if *offline* validation of > *alone* must succeed. The soft (fallback) solution is to have clients > copy/paste the referenced-subset of the system-defined nodes into > . The theory being that, since it=E2=80=99s just a subset, it w= on=E2=80=99t > clutter things up too badly and, as it is already the case that some > system-defined nodes must be copy/pasted into in order for > clients to configure descendent nodes (e.g., some tunable for the > system-defined =E2=80=9Clo=E2=80=9D interface), the water is already over= the bridge, so to > speak, on the copy/pasting debate. The only holdout for not already > demanding client=E2=80=99s also copy/paste the subset of referenced syste= m-defined > nodes is that it is completely unnecessary, unless trying to ensure offli= ne > validation of alone. > > > > IMO the least disruptive solution possible should be used. There is a use-case for adding "origin" support to the datastore in the operation. This allows an NMDA client to identify system config that is not being used in . All "resource" oriented data models should have some mechanism to require the resources to be utilized or enabled somehow, within the data model. Unfortunately this cannot be standardized with a 1-size-fits-all solution. A vendor must somehow populate these data models with origin=3Dsystem data nodes. The "hidden system" data uses proprietary logic to decide what nodes to add (and when). This data is probably not represented with YANG models. Transforming the hidden system data to the appropriate YANG models in any datastore is an implementation detail, out of scope for standardization. > Andy > > Kent, as a contributor. > > > Andy --0000000000008f0bd005d1f59943 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 2:49 PM Kent = Watsen <kent@watsen.net> wrote= :
Hi Andy,

> RFC 7950 rules about leafref validation are very clear.
> Adding a new datastore to these rules requires a massive change to NMD= A
> and all implementations.

Not really or, rather, it seems like it would be just part of adding suppor= t for <system>, which implies adding support for <intended> (if= not supported already) and doing the validation on <intended> instea= d.


> 2) As Juergen points out, servers populate the system config in <ru= nning> and the operator is
> free to ignore it, reference it, or possibly change it.=C2=A0 The prem= ise of <system> seems to
> be that this approach is not "pure enough" for NMDA and <= running> MUST only contain
> operator-created configuration. Why? What real problems would this cha= nge solve?

Servers populating <running> (beyond coping <startup> into <= running>) has never been a supported idea.=C2=A0 We=E2=80=99ve always ma= intained that <running> should only contain client-provided config, r= ight?

I=E2=80=99m unsure what the =E2=80=9Cchange=E2=80=9D in your last question = points to.=C2=A0 But note that on JUNOS-based systems, there are many hundr= eds of system-defined nodes available to be referenced by config in <run= ning>.=C2=A0 Putting all these nodes into <running> would clutter = the config immensely.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

FWIW, JUNOS =E2=80=9Csolves=E2=80=9D this by *hiding* these system-nodes, s= uch that clients must use a special command just to discover them.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0And, yes, if ever any of these are hidden-nodes are reference, offlin= e-validation of <running> will fail.=C2=A0 The <system> datasto= re being discussed effectively mimics this aspect of the JUNOS solution.
There is a separate thread for if *offline* validation of <running> *= alone* must succeed.=C2=A0 The soft (fallback) solution is to have clients = copy/paste the referenced-subset of the system-defined nodes into <runni= ng>.=C2=A0 The theory being that, since it=E2=80=99s just a subset, it w= on=E2=80=99t clutter things up too badly and, as it is already the case tha= t some system-defined nodes must be copy/pasted into <running> in ord= er for clients to configure descendent nodes (e.g., some tunable for the sy= stem-defined =E2=80=9Clo=E2=80=9D interface), the water is already over the= bridge, so to speak, on the copy/pasting debate.=C2=A0 The only holdout=C2= =A0 for not already demanding client=E2=80=99s also copy/paste the subset o= f referenced system-defined nodes is that it is completely unnecessary, unl= ess trying to ensure offline validation of <running> alone.





IMO the least disruptiv= e solution possible should be used.
There is a use-case for addin= g "origin" support to the <running> datastore in the <ge= t-data> operation.
This allows an NMDA client to identify syst= em config that is not being used in <operational>.

All "resource" oriented data models should have some mecha= nism to require the resources
to be utilized or enabled somehow, = within the data model. Unfortunately this cannot be standardized
= with a 1-size-fits-all solution.

A vendor must som= ehow populate these data models with origin=3Dsystem data nodes.
= The "hidden system" data uses proprietary logic to decide what no= des to add (and when).
This data is probably not represented with= YANG models.=C2=A0 Transforming the hidden system data
to the ap= propriate YANG models in any datastore is an implementation detail, out of = scope
for standardization.


> Andy

Kent, as a contributor.




Andy

=C2=A0
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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 23:49:51 -0000 On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 03:14:06PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > > IMO the least disruptive solution possible should be used. > There is a use-case for adding "origin" support to the datastore > in the operation. > This allows an NMDA client to identify system config that is not being used > in . > Looking at Figure 2 of RFC 8342, I wonder how system config gets into running - other than a client writing it into running, at which point the config becomes explicit config subject to the usual update rules of . Conceptually, you can have a system daemon acting as a client updating (perhaps even controllable by NACM). The "origin" was not designed to track from which application config data in is originating, that's to be solved by other mechanisms. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Nov 29 16:44:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463273A0C3B for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 16:44:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id glCHYoDi3IoE for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 16:44:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A0713A0C15 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 16:44:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id u3so49255000lfl.2 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 16:44:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=anm/YT/A4CVwLMhRnKpcsxYVw5ymembzGj4N1ow/4/M=; b=XtRwYyzvWQhRgtzRCpikEhi2YSk77j/LzZ0kZBZwL0KOfayqO/kiAZWaiAnOJKIbZr pc01TSCOrjIfaZPwMm4XYbpktvzEJi2KAMpr+jRJkIGQsLN6BO9Br8q47lPIOJ6fKIrO UBHcwuCC5Sl6ummzjrneU91AjfYI1kXxVAjv/OXVT5tpmyaK4DvQPP457T7pBfXY8th3 iTS3HVufyOj5TV6BBgue50zWxoKBUbYnZpxi5mM2qoM8mRCdOcJZ4L2+ZFueYy0UzunQ 7lo4x+utwVwrvPo2QEMj81a4S0y+kKCWFfGtn/K8YPxl2TMXCJVuN0zfUhEJtgumTuJK t4og== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=anm/YT/A4CVwLMhRnKpcsxYVw5ymembzGj4N1ow/4/M=; b=5oq0jvXWhTZ9dfryF9T3c8eKWzPfq1YTl15A2P69QNFbRn+LqeVbV8h3hyq/LRlO+q yTjGNbuqVQ+wnt6ZKV9ry5pC95B+ZisPU3V/4ZUal/Ex7iMIZatYSBQvCFTFfk6LEbNQ 0SH4rl5WynQuszlu6+o2eDpgstQ/jj/3LqYHEJzS04ZjoCylMh+akSinQyIEDLZJUNdI zxJT7IyHtTNBYBnxwEPGf6EXrqvBWl4Tvx7hwf8bI3dRZ9eHwtouw1c5tZtjYPk/b6h1 LY+vXjAGAqm6GEp55IQcz0huIzaW9Vh3sIXqMeEccdB4aQeznuHJ1q7eJ7bbcc0xSLgZ 8VIg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531uPYiSwyDX/taJiJwiWzNneG+OumT/WrnYTogZUlauzHQ1Bk+S M3pCfY885M57UGrXXpVtHWZ5547lOhN8iDw7xX5MXw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxdGanK1rYYxyYMjJEa8rzd3W6hrQo6OX6hzHZKBIxalCes1Qh6fU/OK9BhZDcuNG7yxi0+QVWrAnDU93WlUA4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:1690:: with SMTP id bu16mr12699051lfb.38.1638233079533; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 16:44:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211124.114340.856721981810780593.id@4668.se> <20211125114733.phenv7mktyed6d4v@anna> <20211125.130155.1636018839435459937.id@4668.se> <20211125130128.ogpuzktbdyp6yydj@anna> <0100017d6de3a63d-89d0e981-5347-47be-9779-52d70ccbcda6-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20211129234941.rzgo7q36qbbytcge@anna> In-Reply-To: <20211129234941.rzgo7q36qbbytcge@anna> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 16:44:28 -0800 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen , "maqiufang (A)" , =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c3ea0205d1f6dca9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 00:44:57 -0000 --000000000000c3ea0205d1f6dca9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 3:49 PM J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 03:14:06PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > IMO the least disruptive solution possible should be used. > > There is a use-case for adding "origin" support to the > datastore > > in the operation. > > This allows an NMDA client to identify system config that is not being > used > > in . > > > > Looking at Figure 2 of RFC 8342, I wonder how system config gets into > running - other than a client writing it into running, at which point > the config becomes explicit config subject to the usual update rules > of . Conceptually, you can have a system daemon acting as a > client updating (perhaps even controllable by NACM). The > "origin" was not designed to track from which application config data > in is originating, that's to be solved by other mechanisms. > > I see your point about the intent of "origin". The I2RS "owner" concept is different. The usage of the config to contain both system and client data nodes goes back many decades in some cases. Usually the client data cannot even exist without the system ancestor nodes, so not sure how would even work with client-only data. The more different the solution is from current practice, the less likely it will get adopted, unless it solves an important real problem. I am not sure there is an operational problem being solved here. I agree the system is just another client (exactly how our server is implemented), so why does it need special tracking and control at all? Why does any client get (or need) to inspect the edits of another client before they are made, and control how and when the edits are added? /js > Andy > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > --000000000000c3ea0205d1f6dca9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 3:49 PM J=C3= =BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at = 03:14:06PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote:
>
> IMO the least disruptive solution possible should be used.
> There is a use-case for adding "origin" support to the <r= unning> datastore
> in the <get-data> operation.
> This allows an NMDA client to identify system config that is not being= used
> in <operational>.
>

Looking at Figure 2 of RFC 8342, I wonder how system config gets into
running - other than a client writing it into running, at which point
the config becomes explicit config subject to the usual update rules
of <running>. Conceptually, you can have a system daemon acting as a<= br> client updating <running> (perhaps even controllable by NACM). The "origin" was not designed to track from which application config = data
in <running> is originating, that's to be solved by other mechani= sms.


I see your point about the intent of &= quot;origin". The I2RS "owner" concept is different.

The usage of the <running> config to contain both s= ystem and client data nodes
goes back many decades in some cases.= =C2=A0 Usually the client data cannot even exist without
the syst= em ancestor nodes, so not sure how <running> would even work with cli= ent-only data.
The more different the solution is from current=C2= =A0practice, the less likely it will get adopted, unless
it solve= s an important real problem. I am not sure there is an operational problem = being solved here.=C2=A0=C2=A0

I agree the system = is just another client (exactly how our server is implemented), so why
does it need special tracking and control at all?=C2=A0 Why does any = client get (or need) to inspect the
edits of another client befor= e they are made, and control how and when the edits are added?

/js

Andy
=C2=A0

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
--000000000000c3ea0205d1f6dca9-- From nobody Mon Nov 29 18:25:00 2021 Return-Path: <0100017d6ea8bf95-465cd96c-48c1-4bc0-b70f-f82043bae24c-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2BCE3A0C8A for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 18:24:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fAYJwIvLTMe2 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 18:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73C5F3A0C34 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 18:24:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1638239092; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=45DNkRwfmbqjVJ6gs/mp+Ij7ByJmFnzBmkKy8VODgDI=; b=O31AGLu7gvh8HN07UcQHcgayd+xpJyI1KEravubux3XKpXvVoqsqIBPthqgqY16l CToRcQz7N+LbaMjk04bsZZPz0OatiotcyHvctZbMbKJJcjsS2Q/ENHw32xWtwk5Cuv5 oqiweqlK187AVGA2I4fZLNFp2s49vR//XEILxQOY= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017d6ea8bf95-465cd96c-48c1-4bc0-b70f-f82043bae24c-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EAB0ABD3-E929-49B0-A216-44A8E2DBEB81" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 02:24:52 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20211129234941.rzgo7q36qbbytcge@anna> Cc: Andy Bierman , "netmod@ietf.org" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder References: <20211124.114340.856721981810780593.id@4668.se> <20211125114733.phenv7mktyed6d4v@anna> <20211125.130155.1636018839435459937.id@4668.se> <20211125130128.ogpuzktbdyp6yydj@anna> <0100017d6de3a63d-89d0e981-5347-47be-9779-52d70ccbcda6-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20211129234941.rzgo7q36qbbytcge@anna> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.11.30-54.240.48.93 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Should the origin="system" be required for system configurations copied/pasted into ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 02:24:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EAB0ABD3-E929-49B0-A216-44A8E2DBEB81 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Juergen, > On Nov 29, 2021, at 6:49 PM, J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder = wrote: >=20 > On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 03:14:06PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >>=20 >> IMO the least disruptive solution possible should be used. >> There is a use-case for adding "origin" support to the = datastore >> in the operation. >> This allows an NMDA client to identify system config that is not = being used >> in . >>=20 >=20 > Looking at Figure 2 of RFC 8342, I wonder how system config gets into > running - other than a client writing it into running, at which point > the config becomes explicit config subject to the usual update rules > of . Conceptually, you can have a system daemon acting as a > client updating (perhaps even controllable by NACM). The > "origin" was not designed to track from which application config data > in is originating, that's to be solved by other mechanisms. This idea is to mimic RFC6243=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdefault=E2=80=9D = annotation and the "with-defaults" RPC. Just like with the = =E2=80=9Cexplicit=E2=80=9D mode server, if a client writes to = and default value w/o the annotation, the server assumes it is explicit = config (not the default anymore). Same here, if the client writes a = =E2=80=9Csystem=E2=80=9D node w/o the annotation, the server assumes it = is explicit config (not the -defined node). In both cases, if = the client includes the appropriate annotation, and the value/node = matches the default/system value, then the server assumes that it=E2=80=99= s actually the default/system value/node. FWIW, about 5 months ago (June 29), I offered this modified version of = Figure 2 (Note the box on the left). The =E2=80=9Cunderlay=E2=80= =9D comment is meant to imply that always overrides = when they=E2=80=99re merged: +-------------+ +-----------+ | | | | | (ct, rw) |<---+ +--->| (ct, rw) | +-------------+ | | +-----------+ | | | | | +-----------+ | +-------->| |<--------+ | (ct, rw) | +-----------+ | +----------+ | // configuration transformations, | |-------------->| // e.g., removal of nodes marked as | (ct, ro) | // underlay | // "inactive", expansion of +----------+ | // templates v +------------+ | | // subject to validation | (ct, ro) | +------------+ | // changes applied, subject to | // local factors, e.g., missing | // resources, delays | dynamic | +-------- learned configuration configuration | +-------- system configuration datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration | | | v v v +---------------+ | | <-- system state | (ct + cf, ro) | +---------------+ K. --Apple-Mail=_EAB0ABD3-E929-49B0-A216-44A8E2DBEB81 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Juergen,


On Nov 29, 2021, at 6:49 PM, = J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

On = Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 03:14:06PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote:

IMO the = least disruptive solution possible should be used.
There = is a use-case for adding "origin" support to the <running> = datastore
in the <get-data> operation.
This allows an NMDA client to identify system config that is = not being used
in <operational>.


Looking at Figure 2 of RFC 8342, = I wonder how system config gets into
running - other than = a client writing it into running, at which point
the = config becomes explicit config subject to the usual update rules
of <running>. Conceptually, you can have a system = daemon acting as a
client updating <running> = (perhaps even controllable by NACM). The
"origin" was not = designed to track from which application config data
in = <running> is originating, that's to be solved by other = mechanisms.

This idea is to mimic RFC6243=E2=80=99s = =E2=80=9Cdefault=E2=80=9D annotation and the "with-defaults" RPC. =  Just like with the =E2=80=9Cexplicit=E2=80=9D mode server, if a = client writes to <running> and default value w/o the annotation, = the server assumes it is explicit config (not the default anymore). =  Same here, if the client writes a =E2=80=9Csystem=E2=80=9D node = w/o the annotation, the server assumes it is explicit config (not the = <system>-defined node).  In both cases, if the client = includes the appropriate annotation, and the value/node matches the = default/system value, then the server assumes that it=E2=80=99s actually = the default/system value/node.

FWIW, = about 5 months ago (June 29), I offered this modified version of Figure = 2  (Note the <system> box on the left).  The = =E2=80=9Cunderlay=E2=80=9D comment is meant to imply that = <running> always overrides <system> when they=E2=80=99re = merged:


     +-------------+ =                 = +-----------+
  =    | <candidate> |           =       | <startup> |
     |  (ct, rw)   = |<---+       +--->| (ct, rw) =  |
    =  +-------------+    |       |   =  +-----------+
 =           |           = |       |           = |
      =       |         +-----------+   =       |
 =           +-------->| <running> = |<--------+
  =                     | = (ct, rw)  |
 =                     = +-----------+
  =                     =       |
 +----------+             =   |        // configuration = transformations,
 | <system> |-------------->|     =    // e.g., removal of nodes marked as
 | (ct, ro) | // underlay =   |        // "inactive", expansion = of
 +----------+  =              |       =  // templates
 =                     =       v
 =                     = +------------+
  =                     | = <intended> | // subject to validation
            =           | (ct, ro)   |
          =             = +------------+
  =                     =       |        // changes applied, = subject to
    =                     =     |        // local factors, e.g., = missing
    =                     =     |        // resources, = delays
    =                     =     |
  =      dynamic             =  |   +-------- learned configuration
       configuration =        |   +-------- system = configuration
  =      datastores -----+    |   +-------- = default configuration
 =                     =  |    |   |
            =            v    v   = v
      =               = +---------------+
 =                   | = <operational> | <-- system state
            =         | (ct + cf, ro) |
            =         +---------------+


K.


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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 08:00:35 -0000 On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 02:24:52AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Juergen, > > > > On Nov 29, 2021, at 6:49 PM, Jürgen Schönwälder wrote: > > > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 03:14:06PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> > >> IMO the least disruptive solution possible should be used. > >> There is a use-case for adding "origin" support to the datastore > >> in the operation. > >> This allows an NMDA client to identify system config that is not being used > >> in . > >> > > > > Looking at Figure 2 of RFC 8342, I wonder how system config gets into > > running - other than a client writing it into running, at which point > > the config becomes explicit config subject to the usual update rules > > of . Conceptually, you can have a system daemon acting as a > > client updating (perhaps even controllable by NACM). The > > "origin" was not designed to track from which application config data > > in is originating, that's to be solved by other mechanisms. > > This idea is to mimic RFC6243’s “default” annotation and the "with-defaults" RPC. Just like with the “explicit” mode server, if a client writes to and default value w/o the annotation, the server assumes it is explicit config (not the default anymore). Same here, if the client writes a “system” node w/o the annotation, the server assumes it is explicit config (not the -defined node). In both cases, if the client includes the appropriate annotation, and the value/node matches the default/system value, then the server assumes that it’s actually the default/system value/node. > > FWIW, about 5 months ago (June 29), I offered this modified version of Figure 2 (Note the box on the left). The “underlay” comment is meant to imply that always overrides when they’re merged: > > > +-------------+ +-----------+ > | | | | > | (ct, rw) |<---+ +--->| (ct, rw) | > +-------------+ | | +-----------+ > | | | | > | +-----------+ | > +-------->| |<--------+ > | (ct, rw) | > +-----------+ > | > +----------+ | // configuration transformations, > | |-------------->| // e.g., removal of nodes marked as > | (ct, ro) | // underlay | // "inactive", expansion of > +----------+ | // templates > v > +------------+ > | | // subject to validation > | (ct, ro) | > +------------+ > | // changes applied, subject to > | // local factors, e.g., missing > | // resources, delays > | > dynamic | +-------- learned configuration > configuration | +-------- system configuration > datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration > | | | > v v v > +---------------+ > | | <-- system state > | (ct + cf, ro) | > +---------------+ > Your first paragraph does not match the figure. In your figure, system config does not go into instead it goes into a magic merge box which is not shown (there is just an arror pointing to an arrow) and then the result goes into intended. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 30 06:46:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 300843A1311; Tue, 30 Nov 2021 06:46:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.40.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <163828359984.27879.5909799956403440190@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 06:46:40 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-06.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:46:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Semantic Versioning Authors : Joe Clarke Robert Wilton Reshad Rahman Balazs Lengyel Jason Sterne Benoit Claise Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-06.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2021-11-30 Abstract: This document specifies a scheme and guidelines for applying an extended set of semantic versioning rules to revisions of YANG artifacts (e.g., modules and packages). Additionally, this document defines an RFCAAAA-compliant revision-label-scheme for this YANG semantic versioning scheme. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-06.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-06 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/