From nobody Mon Mar 6 08:47:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6172D129464 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2017 08:47:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.106 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SbOJSXmRSlie for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2017 08:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-in1.interdigital.com (unknown [68.168.94.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3847129898 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2017 08:47:37 -0800 (PST) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1488818855-06daaa569d82cb0001-KQeBwq Received: from NISSONITE.InterDigital.com (nissonite.interdigital.com [10.2.64.252]) by smtp-in1.interdigital.com with ESMTP id Z74RhFhXIF7VsbCm (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2017 11:47:35 -0500 (EST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: Xavier.DeFoy@InterDigital.com Received: from NABESITE.InterDigital.com ([fe80::4d8a:a889:67c2:f009]) by NISSONITE.InterDigital.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Mon, 6 Mar 2017 11:47:34 -0500 From: "De Foy, Xavier" To: Kiran.Makhijani , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-ASG-Orig-Subj: RE: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions Thread-Index: AQHSkTCZFIbofckpiUyw4LbquFIK5aGIAatg Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 16:47:33 +0000 Message-ID: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.3.2.147] x-exclaimer-md-config: bb79a19d-f711-475c-a0f9-4d93b71c94dd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358NABESITEInterDi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Barracuda-Connect: nissonite.interdigital.com[10.2.64.252] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1488818855 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: https://10.1.245.3:443/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Scan-Msg-Size: 7221 X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at interdigital.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests=BSF_SC0_MISMATCH_TO, HTML_MESSAGE X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.37013 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.00 BSF_SC0_MISMATCH_TO Envelope rcpt doesn't match header Archived-At: Cc: Alex Galis , "stewart.bryant" , "Dongjie \(Jimmy" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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b2xvcjpibGFjayI+VGhhbmtzPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05v cm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMS4wcHQ7Y29sb3I6YmxhY2siPlN0ZXdhcnQs IERvbmdqaWUsIEFsZXgsIEtpcmFuPC9zcGFuPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jv ZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358NABESITEInterDi_-- From nobody Wed Mar 8 10:19:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC4FF1293DC for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2017 10:19:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3W1S9PhJj9Kx for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2017 10:19:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77FE8128AB0 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2017 10:19:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1clgBj-0006lY-Tk for netslices@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Mar 2017 18:19:51 +0000 Received: from changeling.local ([192.168.3.248]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1clgBj-0002U7-K2 for netslices@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Mar 2017 18:19:51 +0000 To: netslices@ietf.org References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 18:19:42 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux armv7l; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DDC56E1B7AED4756E53427C1" X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2017 18:19:56 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DDC56E1B7AED4756E53427C1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good example of use case to be fed into the draft process. It is not however standalone draft material. I do not see a point in having this as a separate draft except for book-keeping purposes. A. On 03/06/17 16:47, De Foy, Xavier wrote: > > Hi Kiran, all, > > We have just submitted a draft on network slicing in 3GPP. > > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-defoy-netslices-3gpp-network-slicing-00.txt > > > Your feedback before the meeting will be appreciated. I would also > like to request a slot in the agenda of the side meeting. > > Best Regards, > > Xavier > > *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Kiran.Makhijani > *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2017 2:35 PM > *To:* netslices@ietf.org > *Cc:* Alex Galis ; Dongjie (Jimmy) > ; stewart.bryant > *Subject:* [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions > > Hello all, > > We are planning another side-meeting to continue face to face > discussions on the topic and are in the process of setting up agenda > and inviting contributions from the community. > > Please send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions for > discussion topics. > > In order to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel free to > use this for reviews, document update and uploading your contributions. > > -- Main Repository > > https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices > > -- Folder for IETF98 side meeting > > https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02 > > Suggestions welcome > > Thanks > > Stewart, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices --------------DDC56E1B7AED4756E53427C1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Good example of use case to be fed into the draft process.

It is not however standalone draft material. I do not see a point in having this as a separate draft except for book-keeping purposes.

A.

On 03/06/17 16:47, De Foy, Xavier wrote:

Hi Kiran, all,

 

  We have just submitted a draft on network slicing in 3GPP.

 

  https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-defoy-netslices-3gpp-network-slicing-00.txt

 

  Your feedback before the meeting will be appreciated. I would also like to request a slot in the agenda of the side meeting.

 

  Best Regards,

 

Xavier

 

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kiran.Makhijani
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 2:35 PM
To: netslices@ietf.org
Cc: Alex Galis <galis.alex@gmail.com>; Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; stewart.bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Subject: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions

 

Hello all,

 

We are planning another side-meeting to continue face to face discussions on the topic and are in the process of setting up agenda and inviting contributions from the community.

Please send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions for discussion topics.

 

In order to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel free to use this for reviews, document update and uploading your contributions.

 

-- Main Repository

https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices

-- Folder for IETF98 side meeting

https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02

 

Suggestions welcome

Thanks

Stewart, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran



_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


--------------DDC56E1B7AED4756E53427C1-- From nobody Wed Mar 8 19:33:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BBA112941C for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2017 19:33:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ITeCpPESYsLB for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2017 19:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4012129731 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2017 19:33:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DIN97358; Thu, 09 Mar 2017 03:33:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMI411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.86.210.34) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 9 Mar 2017 03:33:31 +0000 Received: from SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.112]) by szxemi411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.86.210.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 9 Mar 2017 11:33:21 +0800 From: "xuling (F)" To: Anton Ivanov , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions Thread-Index: AQHSkTCZFIbofckpiUyw4LbquFIK5aGIAatggALG9ACAAQhDoA== Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 03:33:21 +0000 Message-ID: <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.74.135] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390SZXEMI504MBXchi_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.58C0CD0E.020B, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.112, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: d155584c92708d29d7748c4d8adb1faa Archived-At: Cc: "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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Hi, A= nton,

=  

This = draft gives us much useful information from 3GPP, such as next generation core will be based on CU separation and NFV infras= tructure, some control plane function defined in 3GPP architecture will be = shared by different slices, some control plane network functions need to co= mmunicate with other control plane network functions and  data p= lane network functions in the same slice, which all will bring much complex= ity to the connection between network functions in core network. If  transport network slicing is = based on current technology VPN, whether current VPN  can fully meets the flexible = topology requirements maybe need to be analyzed.

=  

And a= lso it proposes some other requirements from 3GPP point of view, such as QoS differentiation w= ithin a given slice and sharing a single slice between multiple services,  network slice management will= likely partially exposed to customers, etc..    , which maybe also need to be considered.

=  

E2E s= licing involves in RAN ,TN ,CN, useful information at this early stage will not be refused, right? What do you think of that?=

=  

Happy= receive your reply.

=  

Best = regards,

Ling.=

=  

=  

=  

=  

=  

=  

=  

xuling
=BB=AA=CE=AA=BC=BC=CA= =F5=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE Huawei Technologies Co., L= td.
3D"Company_logo"

Phone:
Fax:
Mobile:
Email:
=B5=D8=D6=B7=A3=BA=C9= =EE=DB=DA=CA=D0=C1=FA=B8=DA=C7=F8=DB=E0=CC=EF=BB=AA=CE=AA=BB=F9=B5=D8 =D3= =CA=B1=E0=A3=BA518129
Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
Bantian, Longgang District,Shenzhen 518129, P.R.China
http://www.huawei.com

=B1=BE=D3=CA=BC=FE=BC=B0=C6=E4=B8=BD=BC=FE=BA=AC=D3=D0=BB=AA=CE=AA=B9= =AB=CB=BE=B5=C4=B1=A3=C3=DC=D0=C5=CF=A2=A3=AC=BD=F6=CF=DE=D3=DA=B7=A2=CB=CD= =B8=F8=C9=CF=C3=E6=B5=D8=D6=B7=D6=D0=C1=D0=B3=F6=B5=C4=B8=F6=C8=CB=BB=F2=C8= =BA=D7=E9=A1=A3=BD=FB
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=B5=C4=D0=C5=CF=A2=A1=A3=C8=E7=B9=FB=C4=FA=B4=ED=CA=D5=C1=CB=B1=BE= =D3=CA=BC=FE=A3=AC=C7=EB=C4=FA=C1=A2=BC=B4=B5=E7=BB=B0=BB=F2=D3=CA=BC=FE=CD= =A8=D6=AA=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=B2=A2=C9=BE=B3=FD=B1=BE=D3=CA=BC=FE=A3=A1
This e-mail and its attachments contain confid= ential information from HUAWEI, which
is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. An= y use of the
information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, tot= al or partial
disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the inten= ded
recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please not= ify the sender by
phone or email immediately and delete it!

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Iv= anov
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:20 AM
To: netslices@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for C= ontributions

 

Good example of use case to be fed into the = draft process.

It is not however standalone draft material. I do not see a point in having= this as a separate draft except for book-keeping purposes.

A.

On 03/06/17 16:47, De Foy, Xavier wrote:

Hi K= iran, all,

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p; We have just submitted a draft on network slicing in 3GPP.

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p; https://www.ietf.org= /internet-drafts/draft-defoy-netslices-3gpp-network-slicing-00.txt

 

  Your feedback before the= meeting will be appreciated. I would also like to request a slot in the ag= enda of the side meeting.

 

  Best Regards,=

 

Xavier

 

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kiran.Makhijani
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 2:35 PM
To: netslices@ietf.org
Cc: Alex Galis <galis.ale= x@gmail.com>; Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; ste= wart.bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Subject: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contr= ibutions

 

Hell= o all,

&nbs= p;

We a= re planning another side-meeting to continue face to face discussions on th= e topic and are in the process of setting up agenda and inviting contributi= ons from the community.

Plea= se send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions for discussio= n topics.

&nbs= p;

In o= rder to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel free to use this= for reviews, document update and uploading your contributions.

&nbs= p;

-- M= ain Repository

https://github.com/nets= lices/IETF-NetSlices

-- F= older for IETF98 side meeting=

ht= tps://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02

&nbs= p;

Sugg= estions welcome

Than= ks

Stew= art, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran




_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@i=
etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

 

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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dh-ZxkGVOM4B for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2017 21:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1A92128BA2 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2017 21:13:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1clqO5-00073I-EM; Thu, 09 Mar 2017 05:13:17 +0000 Received: from [85.255.235.120] (helo=[192.168.42.162]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1clqO4-0000Nz-Tv; Thu, 09 Mar 2017 05:13:17 +0000 To: "xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 05:12:43 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux armv7l; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------FA3C9AD768B229F5BFEAE6FB" X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Cc: "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2017 05:13:27 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FA3C9AD768B229F5BFEAE6FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I did not say the information is not useful. It is a use case - it needs to end up as a part of the use cases draft. It has no entitlement to a life of its own as it is neither an RFC candidate, nor an informational draft material. A. On 03/09/17 03:33, xuling (F) wrote: > > Hi, Anton, > > This draft gives us much useful information from 3GPP, such as next > generation core will be based on CU separation and NFV infrastructure, > some control plane function defined in 3GPP architecture will be > shared by different slices, some control plane network functions need > to communicate with other control plane network functions and data > plane network functions in the same slice, which all will bring much > complexity to the connection between network functions in core > network. If transport network slicing is based on current technology > VPN, whether current VPN can fully meets the flexible topology > requirements maybe need to be analyzed. > > And also it proposes some other requirements from 3GPP point of view, > such as QoS differentiation within a given slice and sharing a single > slice between multiple services, network slice management will likely > partially exposed to customers, etc.., which maybe also need to be > considered. > > E2E slicing involves in RAN ,TN ,CN, useful information at this early > stage will not be refused, right? What do you think of that? > That it belongs as a part of the use case draft and this one needs to be terminated as a standalone draft. > Happy receive your reply. > > Best regards, > > Ling. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > xuling > åŽä¸ºæŠ€æœ¯æœ‰é™å…¬å¸Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > Company_logo > > Phone: > Fax: > Mobile: > Email: > 地å€ï¼šæ·±åœ³å¸‚龙岗区å‚ç”°åŽä¸ºåŸºåœ° 邮编：518129 > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > Bantian, Longgang District,Shenzhen 518129, P.R.China > http://www.huawei.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > 本邮件åŠå…¶é™„件å«æœ‰åŽä¸ºå…¬å¸çš„ä¿å¯†ä¿¡æ¯ï¼Œä»…é™äºŽå‘é€ç»™ä¸Šé¢åœ°å€ä¸­åˆ—å‡ºçš„ä¸ªäººæˆ–ç¾¤ç»„ã€‚ç¦ > 止任何其他人以任何形å¼ä½¿ç”¨ï¼ˆåŒ…括但ä¸é™äºŽå…¨éƒ¨æˆ–部分地泄露ã€å¤åˆ¶ã€æˆ–æ•£å‘）本邮件中 > çš„ä¿¡æ¯ã€‚如果您错收了本邮件，请您立å³ç”µè¯æˆ–邮件通知å‘ä»¶äººå¹¶åˆ é™¤æœ¬é‚®ä»¶ï¼ > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > HUAWEI, which > is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed > above. Any use of the > information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited > to, total or partial > disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the > intended > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, > please notify the sender by > phone or email immediately and delete it! > > *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Anton Ivanov > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:20 AM > *To:* netslices@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions > > Good example of use case to be fed into the draft process. > > It is not however standalone draft material. I do not see a point in > having this as a separate draft except for book-keeping purposes. > > A. > > On 03/06/17 16:47, De Foy, Xavier wrote: > > Hi Kiran, all, > > We have just submitted a draft on network slicing in 3GPP. > > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-defoy-netslices-3gpp-network-slicing-00.txt > > > Your feedback before the meeting will be appreciated. I would > also like to request a slot in the agenda of the side meeting. > > Best Regards, > > Xavier > > *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Kiran.Makhijani > *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2017 2:35 PM > *To:* netslices@ietf.org > *Cc:* Alex Galis > ; Dongjie (Jimmy) > ; stewart.bryant > > *Subject:* [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions > > Hello all, > > We are planning another side-meeting to continue face to face > discussions on the topic and are in the process of setting up > agenda and inviting contributions from the community. > > Please send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions > for discussion topics. > > In order to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel > free to use this for reviews, document update and uploading your > contributions. > > -- Main Repository > > https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices > > -- Folder for IETF98 side meeting > > https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02 > > Suggestions welcome > > Thanks > > Stewart, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > --------------FA3C9AD768B229F5BFEAE6FB Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------EB945D19D1B327039A29917B" --------------EB945D19D1B327039A29917B Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I did not say the information is not useful. It is a use case - it needs to end up as a part of the use cases draft.

It has no entitlement to a life of its own as it is neither an RFC candidate, nor an informational draft material.

A.

On 03/09/17 03:33, xuling (F) wrote:

Hi, Anton,

 

This draft gives us much useful information from 3GPP, such as next generation core will be based on CU separation and NFV infrastructure, some control plane function defined in 3GPP architecture will be shared by different slices, some control plane network functions need to communicate with other control plane network functions and  data plane network functions in the same slice, which all will bring much complexity to the connection between network functions in core network. If  transport network slicing is based on current technology VPN, whether current VPN  can fully meets the flexible topology requirements maybe need to be analyzed.

 

And also it proposes some other requirements from 3GPP point of view, such as QoS differentiation within a given slice and sharing a single slice between multiple services,  network slice management will likely partially exposed to customers, etc..    , which maybe also need to be considered.

 

E2E slicing involves in RAN ,TN ,CN, useful information at this early stage will not be refused, right? What do you think of that?


That it belongs as a part of the use case draft and this one needs to be terminated as a standalone draft.

 

Happy receive your reply.

 

Best regards,

Ling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

xuling
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From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:20 AM
To: netslices@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions

 

Good example of use case to be fed into the draft process.

It is not however standalone draft material. I do not see a point in having this as a separate draft except for book-keeping purposes.

A.

On 03/06/17 16:47, De Foy, Xavier wrote:

Hi Kiran, all,

 

  We have just submitted a draft on network slicing in 3GPP.

 

  https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-defoy-netslices-3gpp-network-slicing-00.txt

 

  Your feedback before the meeting will be appreciated. I would also like to request a slot in the agenda of the side meeting.

 

  Best Regards,

 

Xavier

 

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kiran.Makhijani
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 2:35 PM
To: netslices@ietf.org
Cc: Alex Galis <galis.alex@gmail.com>; Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; stewart.bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Subject: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions

 

Hello all,

 

We are planning another side-meeting to continue face to face discussions on the topic and are in the process of setting up agenda and inviting contributions from the community.

Please send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions for discussion topics.

 

In order to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel free to use this for reviews, document update and uploading your contributions.

 

-- Main Repository

https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices

-- Folder for IETF98 side meeting

https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02

 

Suggestions welcome

Thanks

Stewart, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran




_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

 


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TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EB8A12957C for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2017 04:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-2ubuntu2.1) with ESMTP id v29CTJuS031932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:29:22 +0100 Received: from [134.102.161.4] (134.102.161.4) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:29:14 +0100 To: References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <79F8F066-6FD0-4976-8EBE-71863ECF7169@huawei.com> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:29:13 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <79F8F066-6FD0-4976-8EBE-71863ECF7169@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [134.102.161.4] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2017 12:29:30 -0000 Hello, there is a tl;dr at the bottom of this reply - and I also might state the obvious here. Sorry. I don't think that submitting content that is not standalone draft material in a separate draft is generally bad. Due to the significant scope of netslice requirements (and therefore the use cases they are derived from), "book-keeping" could be actually one of the greatest challenges (and even blocker) here. As always, this statement applies also to the corresponding terminology defined and used. This covers putting the term use-case in the title of a draft that contains a use-case ;) It seems possible to aggregate all use-cases somehow categorized in a single draft. And that's a good approach even if the result might become a little bit overwhelming (structure is key to avoid this, I think). I am more concerned about the step that comes after. The alignment of non-conflicting requirements in a single document could potentially pose an even greater challenge here. In respect to "single use cases draft": the assumed challenge just illustrated could maybe be somewhat mitigated by clustering use-cases in groups that appear to align. In this case, categorizing (a specialization of "book-keeping", I think) could be supported by submitting, merging and expiring multiple drafts as part of the "draft process", in parallel. One one hand, that might expedite the "draft process", too. I acknowledge the possibility that, on the other hand, this approach might also increase confusion, temporarily introduce redundancy/inconsistency and might decrease visibility of valuable input. Grüße, Henk p.s. maybe use "nested (net)slices" instead of "sub-netslices"? In general, we are not only trying to slice "networks", I think. "Managing isolation" seems to play a big role here. tl;dr This is just an individual opinion: Personally, I would like to encourage everyone (especially if involved with 5G) to contribute via new drafts including a precise scope statement and title as soon as possible. Orchestrating contributions in a single draft costs time. Maybe we don't have that time. It is 2017 already. On 03/09/2017 07:50 AM, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: > Hello Xuling, Xavier, > > Thank you for the contribution. It is very well-written. I think it is > good to have 5G specific requirements at one place for the purpose of > side meeting discussions. > > Later on, as Anton suggests may become part of use cases draft. > > > > Couple of high-level comments: > > - In my opinion, the document becomes extremely useful if it > stitches 5G requirements to need for standardization. > > - I find the use of term sub-netslices (to represent > sub-network definition from NGMN) a bit risky because it is so easy to > misinterpret it. > > > > Regards > > Kiran > > > > *From: *Anton Ivanov > *Date: *Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 9:12 PM > *To: *"xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" > > *Cc: *"netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" > > *Subject: *Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions > > > > > I did not say the information is not useful. It is a use case - it needs > to end up as a part of the use cases draft. > > It has no entitlement to a life of its own as it is neither an RFC > candidate, nor an informational draft material. > > A. > > On 03/09/17 03:33, xuling (F) wrote: > > Hi, Anton, > > > > This draft gives us much useful information from 3GPP, such as next > generation core will be based on CU separation and NFV > infrastructure, some control plane function defined in 3GPP > architecture will be shared by different slices, some control plane > network functions need to communicate with other control plane > network functions and data plane network functions in the same > slice, which all will bring much complexity to the connection > between network functions in core network. If transport network > slicing is based on current technology VPN, whether current VPN can > fully meets the flexible topology requirements maybe need to be > analyzed. > > > > And also it proposes some other requirements from 3GPP point of > view, such as QoS differentiation within a given slice and sharing a > single slice between multiple services, network slice management > will likely partially exposed to customers, etc.. , which maybe > also need to be considered. > > > > E2E slicing involves in RAN ,TN ,CN, useful information at this > early stage will not be refused, right? What do you think of that? > > > That it belongs as a part of the use case draft and this one needs to be > terminated as a standalone draft. > > > > > Happy receive your reply. > > > > Best regards, > > Ling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > xuling > åŽä¸ºæŠ€æœ¯æœ‰é™å…¬å¸ Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > ompany_logo > > Phone: > Fax: > Mobile: > Email: > 地å€ï¼šæ·±åœ³å¸‚龙岗区å‚ç”°åŽä¸ºåŸºåœ° 邮编：518129 > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > Bantian, Longgang District,Shenzhen 518129, P.R.China > http://www.huawei.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > 本邮件åŠå…¶é™„件å«æœ‰åŽä¸ºå…¬å¸çš„ä¿å¯†ä¿¡æ¯ï¼Œä»…é™äºŽå‘é€ç»™ä¸Šé¢åœ°å€ä¸­åˆ—出的个 > äººæˆ–ç¾¤ç»„ã€‚ç¦ > 止任何其他人以任何形å¼ä½¿ç”¨ï¼ˆåŒ…括但ä¸é™äºŽå…¨éƒ¨æˆ–部分地泄露ã€å¤åˆ¶ã€æˆ–æ•£ > å‘）本邮件中 > çš„ä¿¡æ¯ã€‚如果您错收了本邮件，请您立å³ç”µè¯æˆ–邮件通知å‘ä»¶äººå¹¶åˆ é™¤æœ¬é‚®ä»¶ï¼ > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information > from HUAWEI, which > is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed > above. Any use of the > information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited > to, total or partial > disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than > the intended > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, > please notify the sender by > phone or email immediately and delete it! > > *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Anton Ivanov > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:20 AM > *To:* netslices@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions > > > > Good example of use case to be fed into the draft process. > > It is not however standalone draft material. I do not see a point in > having this as a separate draft except for book-keeping purposes. > > A. > > On 03/06/17 16:47, De Foy, Xavier wrote: > > Hi Kiran, all, > > > > We have just submitted a draft on network slicing in 3GPP. > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-defoy-netslices-3gpp-network-slicing-00.txt > > > > > Your feedback before the meeting will be appreciated. I would > also like to request a slot in the agenda of the side meeting. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Xavier > > > > *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *Kiran.Makhijani > *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2017 2:35 PM > *To:* netslices@ietf.org > *Cc:* Alex Galis > ; Dongjie (Jimmy) > ; > stewart.bryant > > *Subject:* [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions > > > > Hello all, > > > > We are planning another side-meeting to continue face to face > discussions on the topic and are in the process of setting up > agenda and inviting contributions from the community. > > Please send your contributions (such as usecases) and > suggestions for discussion topics. > > > > In order to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel > free to use this for reviews, document update and uploading your > contributions. > > > > -- Main Repository > > https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices > > -- Folder for IETF98 side meeting > > https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02 > > > > Suggestions welcome > > Thanks > > Stewart, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > From nobody Thu Mar 9 06:15:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FB16129649 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2017 06:15:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ihxIBEMWLlkA for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2017 06:15:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 933E6129644 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2017 06:15:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1clyqu-0007fl-FI for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Mar 2017 14:15:36 +0000 Received: from [85.255.235.93] (helo=[192.168.42.162]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1clyqu-0005YZ-22 for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Mar 2017 14:15:36 +0000 To: netslices@ietf.org References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <79F8F066-6FD0-4976-8EBE-71863ECF7169@huawei.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <270e909b-e37a-1d96-40fa-02b8e94e3ce5@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:15:22 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux armv7l; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2017 14:15:42 -0000 On 03/09/17 12:29, Henk Birkholz wrote: > Hello, > > there is a tl;dr at the bottom of this reply - and I also might state > the obvious here. Sorry. > > > I don't think that submitting content that is not standalone draft > material in a separate draft is generally bad. > > Due to the significant scope of netslice requirements (and therefore > the use cases they are derived from), "book-keeping" could be actually > one of the greatest challenges (and even blocker) here. As always, > this statement applies also to the corresponding terminology defined > and used. This covers putting the term use-case in the title of a > draft that contains a use-case ;) > > It seems possible to aggregate all use-cases somehow categorized in a > single draft. And that's a good approach even if the result might > become a little bit overwhelming (structure is key to avoid this, I > think). +1 > > I am more concerned about the step that comes after. The alignment of > non-conflicting requirements in a single document could potentially > pose an even greater challenge here. +infty > > In respect to "single use cases draft": the assumed challenge just > illustrated could maybe be somewhat mitigated by clustering use-cases > in groups that appear to align. In this case, categorizing (a > specialization of "book-keeping", I think) could be supported by > submitting, merging and expiring multiple drafts as part of the "draft > process", in parallel. +1 > > One one hand, that might expedite the "draft process", too. > > I acknowledge the possibility that, on the other hand, this approach > might also increase confusion, temporarily introduce > redundancy/inconsistency and might decrease visibility of valuable input. I'd rather have some confusion now at this stage instead of having confusion or requirements/ideas which cannot be reconciled later. I am not going to point fingers but we have a workgroup which is failing to agree on something as basic as trasnport protocol for a 5th year in a row now. This is despite the subject matter being generally less complex than here. Additionally, I'd rather drop reqs which cannot be reconciled and let them run separately in a different WG (or different standard body altogether) if this is what it takes to have a viable WG which will produce a result BEFORE we build it (not 5+ year after everyone has moved on). By the way, I am will not make it to this IETF due to a scheduling conflict. I should be in Prague though. A. > > > > Grüße, > Henk > > p.s. maybe use "nested (net)slices" instead of "sub-netslices"? In > general, we are not only trying to slice "networks", I think. > "Managing isolation" seems to play a big role here. > > > tl;dr > > This is just an individual opinion: Personally, I would like to > encourage everyone (especially if involved with 5G) to contribute via > new drafts including a precise scope statement and title as soon as > possible. Orchestrating contributions in a single draft costs time. > Maybe we don't have that time. It is 2017 already. > > > On 03/09/2017 07:50 AM, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: >> Hello Xuling, Xavier, >> >> Thank you for the contribution. It is very well-written. I think it is >> good to have 5G specific requirements at one place for the purpose of >> side meeting discussions. >> >> Later on, as Anton suggests may become part of use cases draft. >> >> >> >> Couple of high-level comments: >> >> - In my opinion, the document becomes extremely useful if it >> stitches 5G requirements to need for standardization. >> >> - I find the use of term sub-netslices (to represent >> sub-network definition from NGMN) a bit risky because it is so easy to >> misinterpret it. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Kiran >> >> >> >> *From: *Anton Ivanov >> *Date: *Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 9:12 PM >> *To: *"xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" >> >> *Cc: *"netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" >> >> *Subject: *Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for >> Contributions >> >> >> >> >> I did not say the information is not useful. It is a use case - it needs >> to end up as a part of the use cases draft. >> >> It has no entitlement to a life of its own as it is neither an RFC >> candidate, nor an informational draft material. >> >> A. >> >> On 03/09/17 03:33, xuling (F) wrote: >> >> Hi, Anton, >> >> >> >> This draft gives us much useful information from 3GPP, such as next >> generation core will be based on CU separation and NFV >> infrastructure, some control plane function defined in 3GPP >> architecture will be shared by different slices, some control plane >> network functions need to communicate with other control plane >> network functions and data plane network functions in the same >> slice, which all will bring much complexity to the connection >> between network functions in core network. If transport network >> slicing is based on current technology VPN, whether current VPN can >> fully meets the flexible topology requirements maybe need to be >> analyzed. >> >> >> >> And also it proposes some other requirements from 3GPP point of >> view, such as QoS differentiation within a given slice and sharing a >> single slice between multiple services, network slice management >> will likely partially exposed to customers, etc.. , which maybe >> also need to be considered. >> >> >> >> E2E slicing involves in RAN ,TN ,CN, useful information at this >> early stage will not be refused, right? What do you think of that? >> >> >> That it belongs as a part of the use case draft and this one needs to be >> terminated as a standalone draft. >> >> >> >> >> Happy receive your reply. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Ling. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> xuling >> åŽä¸ºæŠ€æœ¯æœ‰é™å…¬å¸ Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. >> ompany_logo >> >> Phone: >> Fax: >> Mobile: >> Email: >> 地å€ï¼šæ·±åœ³å¸‚龙岗区å‚ç”°åŽä¸ºåŸºåœ° 邮编：518129 >> Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. >> Bantian, Longgang District,Shenzhen 518129, P.R.China >> http://www.huawei.com >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> 本邮件åŠå…¶é™„件å«æœ‰åŽä¸ºå…¬å¸çš„ä¿å¯†ä¿¡æ¯ï¼Œä»…é™äºŽå‘é€ç»™ä¸Šé¢åœ°å€ä¸­åˆ—出的个 >> äººæˆ–ç¾¤ç»„ã€‚ç¦ >> 止任何其他人以任何形å¼ä½¿ç”¨ï¼ˆåŒ…括但ä¸é™äºŽå…¨éƒ¨æˆ–部分地泄露ã€å¤åˆ¶ã€æˆ–æ•£ >> å‘）本邮件中 >> >> çš„ä¿¡æ¯ã€‚如果您错收了本邮件，请您立å³ç”µè¯æˆ–邮件通知å‘ä»¶äººå¹¶åˆ é™¤æœ¬é‚®ä»¶ï¼ >> This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information >> from HUAWEI, which >> is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed >> above. Any use of the >> information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited >> to, total or partial >> disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than >> the intended >> recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, >> please notify the sender by >> phone or email immediately and delete it! >> >> *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of >> *Anton Ivanov >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:20 AM >> *To:* netslices@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for >> Contributions >> >> >> >> Good example of use case to be fed into the draft process. >> >> It is not however standalone draft material. I do not see a point in >> having this as a separate draft except for book-keeping purposes. >> >> A. >> >> On 03/06/17 16:47, De Foy, Xavier wrote: >> >> Hi Kiran, all, >> >> >> >> We have just submitted a draft on network slicing in 3GPP. >> >> >> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-defoy-netslices-3gpp-network-slicing-00.txt >> >> >> >> >> Your feedback before the meeting will be appreciated. I would >> also like to request a slot in the agenda of the side meeting. >> >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> >> >> Xavier >> >> >> >> *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf >> Of *Kiran.Makhijani >> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2017 2:35 PM >> *To:* netslices@ietf.org >> *Cc:* Alex Galis >> ; Dongjie (Jimmy) >> ; >> stewart.bryant >> >> *Subject:* [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for >> Contributions >> >> >> >> Hello all, >> >> >> >> We are planning another side-meeting to continue face to face >> discussions on the topic and are in the process of setting up >> agenda and inviting contributions from the community. >> >> Please send your contributions (such as usecases) and >> suggestions for discussion topics. >> >> >> >> In order to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel >> free to use this for reviews, document update and uploading your >> contributions. >> >> >> >> -- Main Repository >> >> https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices >> >> -- Folder for IETF98 side meeting >> >> https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02 >> >> >> >> Suggestions welcome >> >> Thanks >> >> Stewart, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Netslices mailing list >> >> Netslices@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >> > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Mon Mar 13 11:47:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4DD1298A3 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 11:47:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JIf-MwG7yhNq for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 11:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-in1.interdigital.com (unknown [68.168.94.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 345B01299FE for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 11:47:50 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1489430867-06daaa37bc0d580001-KQeBwq Received: from NALENITE.InterDigital.com (nalenite.interdigital.com [10.2.64.253]) by smtp-in1.interdigital.com with ESMTP id af89J0lrkDautsH9 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 14:47:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: Xavier.DeFoy@InterDigital.com Received: from NABESITE.InterDigital.com ([fe80::4d8a:a889:67c2:f009]) by NALENITE.InterDigital.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 14:47:47 -0400 From: "De Foy, Xavier" To: Anton Ivanov , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-ASG-Orig-Subj: RE: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions Thread-Index: AQHSkTCZFIbofckpiUyw4LbquFIK5aGIAatggAOg4gCAAJqwgIAAG8OAgAAba4CAAF6KgIAAHagAgAXmBnA= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 18:47:46 +0000 Message-ID: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47CE2@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <79F8F066-6FD0-4976-8EBE-71863ECF7169@huawei.com> <270e909b-e37a-1d96-40fa-02b8e94e3ce5@kot-begemot.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <270e909b-e37a-1d96-40fa-02b8e94e3ce5@kot-begemot.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.3.2.147] x-exclaimer-md-config: bb79a19d-f711-475c-a0f9-4d93b71c94dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Barracuda-Connect: nalenite.interdigital.com[10.2.64.253] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1489430867 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: https://10.1.245.3:443/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Scan-Msg-Size: 12032 X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at interdigital.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests=BSF_SC0_MISMATCH_TO X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.37194 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 BSF_SC0_MISMATCH_TO Envelope rcpt doesn't match header Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBOZXRzbGljZXMg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IE5ldHNsaWNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldHNsaWNlcw0KDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpOZXRzbGljZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpOZXRzbGlj ZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0c2xp Y2VzDQo= From nobody Mon Mar 13 12:12:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E02AD129406 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 12:12:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nkF0a5Fz4AOT for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 12:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E71AB129AA6 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 12:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnVOD-0003yr-DK; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:12:17 +0000 Received: from [192.168.3.248] by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnVOD-0002bn-5R; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:12:17 +0000 To: "De Foy, Xavier" , "netslices@ietf.org" References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <79F8F066-6FD0-4976-8EBE-71863ECF7169@huawei.com> <270e909b-e37a-1d96-40fa-02b8e94e3ce5@kot-begemot.co.uk> <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47CE2@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:11:58 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux armv7l; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47CE2@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:12:22 -0000 On 03/13/17 18:47, De Foy, Xavier wrote: > Hi Anton, Xuling, Kiran and Denk > > Thank you all for your comments. Actually we focused on providing technical information to help the barBof progress further, without planning much about the draft beyond this point. We don't mind if it gets merged into a larger use case draft in the future. Cool :) I always take the long view though :) So my comment is when looking at it from that viewpoint. A. > About the point from Kiran on tying 5G requirements to standardization needs: agreed, identifying standardization needs would be useful. I will think more about it and hopefully discussions in the incoming meeting will help clarifying those needs as well. > > Finally, the term "sub-netslice" is a compact representation for the term used in the 3gpp spec "Network slice subnet". If it does not work one option is to replace it with "Network slice subnet" in a future update. > > Regards, > > Xavier. > > [snip] From nobody Mon Mar 13 13:03:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6825E129B01 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:03:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qrXlpK4DOmTv for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (asmtp1.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B1C1129AEE for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2DK3Wtt021029; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 20:03:32 GMT Received: from 950129200 ([176.241.251.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2DK3OpK020981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Mar 2017 20:03:26 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Kiran.Makhijani'" , Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 20:03:26 -0000 Message-ID: <029f01d29c34$e2d15dd0$a8741970$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02A0_01D29C34.E2D46B10" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdKcNN7wn/1GXmlTTDilxQIduGae4w== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-22940.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--17.228-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--17.228-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: +72JP/9xykNzgDEqoQageth3b7/zBhN1EtdrY/Wb3fPM9X6l99fFT9Lu X2hj/M7U7XsKshGgdva8DRi108inlMOQecnAhEpbma6DzXaohvMfXzVgO0hVqvDemOoSYgtdp4F 988kYy61PFr824k28kKZPQKkIZi5y4VGGT5XQyDum/Bn0aZ3AM8G7itGW7ebY6WGMNM4/cfzv/7 2zC4hJFZ3woJ2UeuYF6HMoliKXreiqDvek35mqXJ3bt4XlQMWjD+LwVja9M4EgOnjvjQ5gMSWdw 9Myj4ex9dMkDbqNTiWX7nDC+4gKenNQXkvyemjfXTK4OtPUfQSjuF41aTJRXZ/paSZmLhGje5ba sibx4KfyTo1GsSlyqhkigyII1PZ5MuPfXQm0MvCKC6Im4I1RF9Vj2MQh1a6nYB83633RxLeHNAe TlC/7tTOaljH5QqOHcLYrJin8fu9ZiostRfaYC0HrI6vFzzG7wx0jRRxcQfOPaLJ/Ca3STwhO7H qRFugr0TO3peegFs+e46G0SwaLRk/mbNpTPrBAEPf7TDUOGoreRHVKQOjbvwwv1ZvdCH+FrRCYv bCvFY9ZTxe0Lo23JCqFmu/h/tw7fgWNZg36My9jiC4p+/AIFl+iEcKpKdpuQdOsmUEGvaXv2xfQ kkBd3VVN11OuMws6dacgeXd4g9yXBXaJoB9JZxRFJJyf5BJecmfM3DjaQLEj80Za3RRg8LU+F7b UfHEVgSjvvv9+clVwTFQVge+gRDZ94SOWNEUc2ubSoj9a0Wc= Archived-At: Cc: 'Alex Galis' , "'stewart.bryant'" , "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" Subject: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: when? X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 20:03:50 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02A0_01D29C34.E2D46B10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kiran, =20 It would be a great help to those of us trying to juggle agendas for = Chicago if you could give a hint on when you hope this meeting will be = scheduled. =20 Thanks, Adrian =20 From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Kiran.Makhijani Sent: 27 February 2017 19:35 To: netslices@ietf.org Cc: Alex Galis; Dongjie (Jimmy); stewart.bryant Subject: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for = Contributions =20 Hello all, =20 We are planning another side-meeting to continue face to face = discussions on the topic and are in the process of setting up agenda and = inviting contributions from the community. Please send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions for = discussion topics. =20 In order to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel free to = use this for reviews, document update and uploading your contributions. =20 -- Main Repository https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices -- Folder for IETF98 side meeting https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02 =20 Suggestions welcome Thanks Stewart, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran ------=_NextPart_000_02A0_01D29C34.E2D46B10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Kiran,

 

It = would be a great help to those of us trying to juggle agendas for = Chicago if you could give a hint on when you hope this meeting will be = scheduled.

 

Thanks,

Adrian

 

From: Netslices = [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Kiran.Makhijani
Sent: 27 February 2017 19:35
To: = netslices@ietf.org
Cc: Alex Galis; Dongjie (Jimmy); = stewart.bryant
Subject: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side = meeting: Call for Contributions

 

Hello = all,

 

We are planning = another side-meeting to continue face to face discussions on the topic = and are in the process of setting up agenda and inviting contributions = from the community.

Please = send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions for = discussion topics.

 

In order to = collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel free to use this for = reviews, document update and uploading your = contributions.

 

-- Main = Repository

https://github.com/net= slices/IETF-NetSlices

-- = Folder for IETF98 side meeting

https://github.com/net= slices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02

 

Suggestion= s welcome

Thanks

Stewart, = Dongjie, Alex, Kiran

------=_NextPart_000_02A0_01D29C34.E2D46B10-- From nobody Mon Mar 13 13:22:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C14129AEE for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:22:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jxy3RCdo6YhH for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25F0C129B06 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DIU72381; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 20:22:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 20:22:24 +0000 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.132]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.133]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:22:04 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: "netslices@ietf.org" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" Thread-Topic: NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: when? Thread-Index: AQHSnDd62RumV4mk6kqSCG8hDd5bVA== Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 20:22:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <029f01d29c34$e2d15dd0$a8741970$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <029f01d29c34$e2d15dd0$a8741970$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_etPan58c6ff6b71fe2f85113cKiransiPhone_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090206.58C6FF81.006E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.132, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: c736dfd34e85959a684e821ac3017260 Archived-At: Cc: "galis.alex@gmail.com" , "stewart.bryant" , "Dongjie \(Jimmy\)" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: when? X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 20:22:30 -0000 --_000_etPan58c6ff6b71fe2f85113cKiransiPhone_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adrian, Last I heard, IETF organizers involved with room allocation are still worki= ng on it. We have been approved for 2 hour slot at 6:00 pm. Exact day - is not known = yet (tues or Wednesday I guess). Will inform the list as soon as we know. This Wednesday, agenda will also be posted. -Kiran From: Adrian Farrel To: Kiran.Makhijani; netslices@ietf.org; Cc: 'Alex Galis'; Dongjie (Jimmy); stewart.bryant; Subject: NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: when? Time: 2017-03-13 13:03:50 Hi Kiran, It would be a great help to those of us trying to juggle agendas for Chicag= o if you could give a hint on when you hope this meeting will be scheduled. Thanks, Adrian From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kiran.Makh= ijani Sent: 27 February 2017 19:35 To: netslices@ietf.org Cc: Alex Galis; Dongjie (Jimmy); stewart.bryant Subject: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contribution= s Hello all, We are planning another side-meeting to continue face to face discussions o= n the topic and are in the process of setting up agenda and inviting contri= butions from the community. Please send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions for discu= ssion topics. In order to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel free to use = this for reviews, document update and uploading your contributions. -- Main Repository https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices -- Folder for IETF98 side meeting https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02 Suggestions welcome Thanks Stewart, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran --_000_etPan58c6ff6b71fe2f85113cKiransiPhone_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adrian,
Last I heard, IETF organizers involved with&n= bsp;room allocation are still working on it.<= br> We have been approved for 2 hour slot&nb= sp;at 6:00 pm. Exact day - is not k= nown yet (tues or Wednesday I guess). Wi= ll inform the list as soon as we kn= ow. 
This Wednesday, agenda will also be posted. -Kiran
From: Adrian Farrel
To: Kiran.Makhijani; netslices@ietf.org;
Cc: 'Alex Galis'; Dongjie (Jimmy); stewart.bryant;
Subject: NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: when?
Time: 2017-03-13 13:03:50


Hi K= iran,

&nbs= p;

It w= ould be a great help to those of us trying to juggle agendas for Chicago if= you could give a hint on when you hope this meeting will be scheduled.

&nbs= p;

Than= ks,

Adri= an

&nbs= p;

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kiran.Makhijani
Sent: 27 February 2017 19:35
To: netslices@ietf.org
Cc: Alex Galis; Dongjie (Jimmy); stewart.bryant
Subject: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contr= ibutions

 

Hell= o all,

&nbs= p;

We a= re planning another side-meeting to continue face to face discussions on th= e topic and are in the process of setting up agenda and inviting contributi= ons from the community.

Plea= se send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions for discussio= n topics.

&nbs= p;

In o= rder to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel free to use this= for reviews, document update and uploading your contributions.

&nbs= p;

-- M= ain Repository

http= s://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices

-- F= older for IETF98 side meeting

http= s://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02

&nbs= p;

Suggestions welcome

Thanks

Stewart, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran

--_000_etPan58c6ff6b71fe2f85113cKiransiPhone_-- From nobody Mon Mar 13 21:13:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FD6B129C51 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 21:13:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.679 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.679 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yyBFctsOMpwp for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 21:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x234.google.com (mail-qt0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15250129C59 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 21:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x234.google.com with SMTP id r45so47401096qte.3 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 21:13:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rGygAoqe38N1nD4adgzCBJLF/GsN9gCK3RhcO25pXts=; b=oijgZBwe1X7cf+uZOhUiDqCFSUub5gV4IU3fq+mB8g3TrozrOLTogqQIevuiqJ/OMu 44qAVOqlvYDKE7poMfte/czXJ6Aw7MSc2+OQ34MvPv/22Dg6EgkJw8VHMAOY/YP66rdc VctklNExxWi+XXear+ftB6D/XGjqp2Ei9C1PuRnl1bCT2zLY5nrDYmquhC8ghLm3aVut 5eXJ58KAmSYSy9tRDXZICTdqE93AS6is+jFFXPGQdpidJ/o70M8SI3a1pb1VwvfqlovM msCQKvlFs532SU0Um6FTEBVdsOkHfe4+LOkgFXQoY53DWYtO/1HodMsGJz0V1Ijs6cMg UQxQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rGygAoqe38N1nD4adgzCBJLF/GsN9gCK3RhcO25pXts=; b=rTALoZsDTkFeyFKPnyniDpEtMty70+GVwkmR7gGPp+hpTmd0Zfge52ZrNgpe7qNrCc 1/7+/lkkQ6lWGuViTCA5CaUyBGnYE8IBXOQktuLEebiIRHckpzh5GZ2QAGaqUwC0thD1 14VCgJHIpmRKcPSdHOc6YzAKLAxY146fnkyfFE6V0E8h707MzQz1wCRgt2lccO+LiLUs 3lnCHL63xYnFaGZU3Wv4O5TPnblUdDNIgj05kewVBaMJdCCaM/UlHUUXYlD5BCbbBZQd YCgb/6E4PMctK8S9sdEh+aVnEp/ozY6aRfBe4hz61F5iHh2FG5dbXCtDZJB+xG5v6vEw 7Kqw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39lZnqYcNEde74PtcDGLEJWZd8WCyEXnluaEDk7/mcJ/0N6Uol7CTJEgDXWlaJmJ9GpJjMs8vje5MiVomg== X-Received: by 10.237.40.2 with SMTP id r2mr39770907qtd.74.1489464820234; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 21:13:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.96.197 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 21:13:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Satish K Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:43:39 +0530 Message-ID: To: "xuling (F)" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=001a114ff4bc841d8b054aa90daf Archived-At: Cc: "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Anton Ivanov , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 04:13:44 -0000 --001a114ff4bc841d8b054aa90daf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114ff4bc841d89054aa90dae --001a114ff4bc841d89054aa90dae Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kiran, As Anton mentioned in his earlier mail, does technologies like VPN satisfies the network slicing of Transport network or is there any other standardization work is going on in this area? Or do you have any other thought process on this like Virtualization of Transport devices as well and assign each one to corresponding slice? Regards, Satish. On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 9:03 AM, xuling (F) wrote: > Hi, Anton, > > > > This draft gives us much useful information from 3GPP, such as next > generation core will be based on CU separation and NFV infrastructure, so= me > control plane function defined in 3GPP architecture will be shared by > different slices, some control plane network functions need to communicat= e > with other control plane network functions and data plane network > functions in the same slice, which all will bring much complexity to the > connection between network functions in core network. If transport > network slicing is based on current technology VPN, whether current VPN = can > fully meets the flexible topology requirements maybe need to be analyzed. > > > > And also it proposes some other requirements from 3GPP point of view, suc= h > as QoS differentiation within a given slice and sharing a single slice > between multiple services, network slice management will likely > partially exposed to customers, etc.. , which maybe also need to be > considered. > > > > E2E slicing involves in RAN ,TN ,CN, useful information at this early > stage will not be refused, right? What do you think of that? > > > > Happy receive your reply. > > > > Best regards, > > Ling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > xuling > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8 = Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > [image: Company_logo] > > Phone: > Fax: > Mobile: > Email: > =E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9A=E6=B7=B1=E5=9C=B3=E5=B8=82=E9=BE=99=E5=B2=97= =E5=8C=BA=E5=9D=82=E7=94=B0=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=9F=BA=E5=9C=B0 =E9=82=AE= =E7=BC=96=EF=BC=9A518129 > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > Bantian, Longgang District,Shenzhen 518129, P.R.China > http://www.huawei.com > ------------------------------ > > =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB=B6=E5=90=AB= =E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D=E5=AF=86=E4= =BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB= =99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84= =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 > =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB=BB= =E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E4= =BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5=88= =86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88=96= =E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD > =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94=99= =E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8=E7= =AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7=9F= =A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE= =E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81 > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > HUAWEI, which > is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. > Any use of the > information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, > total or partial > disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the > intended > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please > notify the sender by > phone or email immediately and delete it! > > *From:* Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Anto= n > Ivanov > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:20 AM > *To:* netslices@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions > > > > Good example of use case to be fed into the draft process. > > It is not however standalone draft material. I do not see a point in > having this as a separate draft except for book-keeping purposes. > > A. > > On 03/06/17 16:47, De Foy, Xavier wrote: > > Hi Kiran, all, > > > > We have just submitted a draft on network slicing in 3GPP. > > > > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-defoy-netslices- > 3gpp-network-slicing-00.txt > > > > Your feedback before the meeting will be appreciated. I would also like > to request a slot in the agenda of the side meeting. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Xavier > > > > *From:* Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Kiran.Makhijani > *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2017 2:35 PM > *To:* netslices@ietf.org > *Cc:* Alex Galis ; Dongjie > (Jimmy) ; stewart.bryant > > *Subject:* [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions > > > > Hello all, > > > > We are planning another side-meeting to continue face to face discussions > on the topic and are in the process of setting up agenda and inviting > contributions from the community. > > Please send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions for > discussion topics. > > > > In order to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel free to us= e > this for reviews, document update and uploading your contributions. > > > > -- Main Repository > > https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices > > -- Folder for IETF98 side meeting > > https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02 > > > > Suggestions welcome > > Thanks > > Stewart, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > --001a114ff4bc841d89054aa90dae Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Kiran,

As Anton mentio= ned in his earlier mail, does technologies like VPN satisfies the network s= licing of Transport network or is there any other
standardization = work is going on in this area? Or do you have any other thought process on = this like Virtualization of Transport devices as well and assign each one t= o corresponding slice?

Regards,
Satish.
=


On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 9:03 AM, xuling (F) <<= a href=3D"mailto:xuling3@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xuling3@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi, Anton,

=C2=A0

This draft gives us much useful information from 3GPP, such as next generation core will be based on CU separation and NFV infras= tructure, some control plane function defined in 3GPP architecture will be = shared by different slices, some control plane network functions need to co= mmunicate with other control plane network functions and =C2=A0data plane network functions in t= he same slice, which all will bring much complexity to the connection betwe= en network functions in core network. If =C2=A0transport network slicing is based on current technology= VPN, whether current VPN =C2=A0can fully meets the flexible topology requirements maybe= need to be analyzed.

=C2=A0

And also it proposes some other requirements from 3GPP point of view, such as QoS differentiation within a given slice and sharing a single slice betwee= n multiple services, =C2=A0network slice management will likely partially exposed t= o customers, etc..=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0, which maybe also need to be = considered.

=C2=A0

E2E slicing involves in RAN ,TN ,CN, useful information at this early stage will not be refused, right? What do you think of that?=

=C2=A0

Happy receive your reply.

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Ling.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

xuling
=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85= =AC=E5=8F=B8 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
3D=

Phone:
Fax:
Mobile:
Email:
=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9A=E6=B7=B1=E5=9C=B3=E5=B8=82=E9=BE= =99=E5=B2=97=E5=8C=BA=E5=9D=82=E7=94=B0=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=9F=BA=E5=9C=B0= =E9=82=AE=E7=BC=96=EF=BC=9A518129
Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
Bantian, Longgang District,Shenzhen 518129, P.R.China
http://www.huawei.com

=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F= =8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB=B6=E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC= =E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D=E5=AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB= =85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0= =E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7= =BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81
=E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4= =BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B= =AC=E4=BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8= =E5=88=86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80= =81=E6=88=96=E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD=
=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9= =94=99=E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7= =E6=82=A8=E7=AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9= =80=9A=E7=9F=A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C= =AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81
This e-mail and its attac= hments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which
is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. An= y use of the
information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, tot= al or partial
disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the inten= ded
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From:= Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivan= ov
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:20 AM
To: netslice= s@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for C= ontributions

=C2=A0

Good example of use case to be = fed into the draft process.

It is not however standalone draft material. I do not see a point in having= this as a separate draft except for book-keeping purposes.

A.

On 03/06/17 16:47, De Foy, Xavier wrote:

Hi K= iran, all,

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0 We have just submitted a draft on network slicing in 3GPP.

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0 h= ttps://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-defoy-netslices-3gpp-ne= twork-slicing-00.txt

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 Your feedback before the= meeting will be appreciated. I would also like to request a slot in the ag= enda of the side meeting.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 Best Regards,<= /u>

=C2=A0

Xavier

<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0

F= rom: Netslices [= mailto:nets= lices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kiran.Makhijani
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 2:35 PM
To: netslice= s@ietf.org
Cc: Alex Galis <galis.alex@gmail.com>; Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawe= i.com>; stewart.bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Subject: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contr= ibutions

=C2=A0

Hell= o all,

=C2= =A0

We a= re planning another side-meeting to continue face to face discussions on th= e topic and are in the process of setting up agenda and inviting contributi= ons from the community.

Plea= se send your contributions (such as usecases) and suggestions for discussio= n topics.

=C2= =A0

In o= rder to collaborate, we have setup github repository. Feel free to use this= for reviews, document update and uploading your contributions.

=C2= =A0

-- M= ain Repository

https= ://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices=

-- F= older for IETF98 side meeting

https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/IETF98_Sidemeeting02

=C2= =A0

Sugg= estions welcome

Than= ks

Stew= art, Dongjie, Alex, Kiran<= /p> 




____________________________________________=
___
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net=
slices

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices<= /a>


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reR/hjrlvBG8shtNqqilmbkdhXmniXwPqEPweS7XW/EFzKbWE/2dI+6MHjK7MZwP6V73RXcfLHj8 V+3g34ivrOq2F9/ZmoaPbwx3MFu0oWRAMqwUZB4rDe/1hIPGWsaXpl/HJ4lu4rPTPMhZXIwQ0hGM qAO59a98ooA8Fl0Dxb4DvvDmuXNnp8tlpiiwnTTUdpJIHPJcEc4Jzx3pkOgagvj2HwV9gmfw+dY/ thZmQ+X5XllvLPGOuePWvfaKAPBfD2iapL48svB91ZTLpGhalPqKTsp2SKeY1B6cE5/Oqg0u58Le LfEMes33imwjvLs3FvcaOheKdSSfmwCcjOK+haKAPm34sWlxqvhPwrJpi6zqcY8/M13CxnPzD74x ke3tRX0lRQB//9k= --001a114ff4bc841d8b054aa90daf-- From nobody Mon Mar 13 22:28:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A769E120726 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 22:28:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BroRO6Mg4_33 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 22:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.nict.go.jp (ns2.nict.go.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:232:300::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F4A126BF7 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 22:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw2.nict.go.jp (gw2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.251]) by ns2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2E5S7DR010867; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:28:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail2.nict.go.jp (mail2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.15]) by gw2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2E5S7jP010855; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:28:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from spectre (unknown [133.243.115.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail Spool Server2) with ESMTPS id 53564A4F8; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:28:07 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:28:12 +0900 From: Pedro Martinez-Julia To: Satish K Message-ID: <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.1 (2016-10-04) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at zenith2 X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: "xuling \(F\)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Anton Ivanov , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 05:28:14 -0000 Hi, Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that here we have another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered incomplete but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set of VPN resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and any change must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the high flexibility qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. As a side remark, a VPN consumer is not able to obtain resources from different providers and compose them as required. I think that such kind of capability must be considered as part of resource "plasticity", which is also a key associated to "network slicing" flag. Such qualities would be part of a reference architecture. In summary, the VPN technology provides an effective but incomplete method to slice a transport network, so it must be considered a "legacy technology" that must be replaced by a proper and improved alternative. Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martinez-Julia Network Science and Convergence Device Technology Laboratory Network System Research Institute National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan Email: pedro@nict.go.jp --------------------------------------------------------- *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** From nobody Mon Mar 13 23:31:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F9F1294E7 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 23:31:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g56Q3TwDSybt for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 23:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7779F1289B0 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 23:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnfzi-0004SD-SW; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:31:42 +0000 Received: from wyvern.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.72]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnfzi-0000tA-Lf; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:31:42 +0000 To: Pedro Martinez-Julia , Satish K References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:31:41 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Cc: "xuling \(F\)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:31:50 -0000 On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > Hi, > > Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that here we > have another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: > > 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into > several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable > properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered incomplete > but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. > > 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set of VPN > resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and any change > must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the high flexibility > qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it stands is presently deemed sufficient. A. > > As a side remark, a VPN consumer is not able to obtain resources from > different providers and compose them as required. I think that such kind > of capability must be considered as part of resource "plasticity", which > is also a key associated to "network slicing" flag. Such qualities would > be part of a reference architecture. > > In summary, the VPN technology provides an effective but incomplete > method to slice a transport network, so it must be considered a "legacy > technology" that must be replaced by a proper and improved alternative. > > Regards, > Pedro > From nobody Mon Mar 13 23:48:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9841293EC for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 23:48:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id upqoWaHXOgcI for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 23:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAE19120727 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 23:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DCT23287; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:48:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:48:33 +0000 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.160]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:48:21 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Pedro Martinez-Julia , Satish K Thread-Topic: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions Thread-Index: AQHSlplqJvLM9AuE+Eua2TwEsEBqwqGTxmtZ//+N0QCAAJZMIA== Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:48:21 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935BD4AE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> In-Reply-To: <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.151.75] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.58C79243.0071, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.160, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: b71d83ed3ccdfcdcfa009f1f2372f63c Archived-At: Cc: "xuling \(F\)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Anton Ivanov , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:48:39 -0000 Hi Pedro,=20 Thanks a lot for your comments. It gives a good example about the requireme= nt of network slicing from the two viewpoints. I agree with your statement = that "VPN can be considered incomplete but valid for slicing a transport ne= twork". Your example mentions two important capabilities of network slicing: compar= able properties to the underlying network, and flexibility for customers to= make changes to their slice. I think both deserves further analysis and di= scussion on the side meeting. It would be great if you could make a present= ation on the side meeting to share your insightful opinion.=20 Best regards, Jie > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pedro > Martinez-Julia > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 1:28 PM > To: Satish K > Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Anton > Ivanov ; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhij= ani > > Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contri= butions >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that here we = have > another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: >=20 > 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into severa= l > smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable properties to i= ts > underlying network so VPN can be considered incomplete but valid as a met= hod > for slicing a transport network. >=20 > 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set of VPN > resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and any change mu= st be > requested to the provider. This view lacks the high flexibility qualities= that we are > assigning to network slicing. >=20 > As a side remark, a VPN consumer is not able to obtain resources from dif= ferent > providers and compose them as required. I think that such kind of capabil= ity must > be considered as part of resource "plasticity", which is also a key assoc= iated to > "network slicing" flag. Such qualities would be part of a reference archi= tecture. >=20 > In summary, the VPN technology provides an effective but incomplete metho= d > to slice a transport network, so it must be considered a "legacy technolo= gy" that > must be replaced by a proper and improved alternative. >=20 > Regards, > Pedro >=20 > -- > Pedro Martinez-Julia > Network Science and Convergence Device Technology Laboratory Network > System Research Institute National Institute of Information and Communica= tions > Technology (NICT) 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan > Email: pedro@nict.go.jp > --------------------------------------------------------- > *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Tue Mar 14 00:25:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA951289B0 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 00:25:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v2Pkwd0qiNOO for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 00:25:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.nict.go.jp (ns2.nict.go.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:232:300::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91BE7126CD8 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 00:25:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw2.nict.go.jp (gw2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.251]) by ns2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2E7PpdY046055; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:25:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail2.nict.go.jp (mail2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.15]) by gw2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2E7Ppdk045991; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:25:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from spectre (unknown [133.243.115.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail Spool Server2) with ESMTPS id 83FD6A409; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:25:51 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:25:56 +0900 From: Pedro Martinez-Julia To: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.1 (2016-10-04) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at zenith2 X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: "xuling \(F\)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Satish K , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:25:57 -0000 On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 06:31:41AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: > On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that here we > > have another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: > > > > 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into > > several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable > > properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered incomplete > > but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. > > > > 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set of VPN > > resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and any change > > must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the high flexibility > > qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. > > Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it stands is > presently deemed sufficient. For the first perspective, the only "complain" would be that VPNs do not have all the functions that are present in the underlying transport, but it is not very decisive. However, for the second perspective, we can think of a quite simple use case that cannot be supplied by current VPN: - There are two VPN providers: A and B. - There is a customer: C. - C contracts VPN1 from provider A and VPN2 from provider B. - Then: + C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W. + C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same transport configuration but one would be disabled. + C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) and by somebody (by whom?). [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] - C finishes the contracts and goes elsewhere to meet its requirements. Notice that if you change VPN by computer, the functions are achievable without problem with current computing slicing technologies... Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martinez-Julia Network Science and Convergence Device Technology Laboratory Network System Research Institute National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan Email: pedro@nict.go.jp --------------------------------------------------------- *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** From nobody Tue Mar 14 00:36:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9601F1294E0 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 00:36:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nDIWYLeoXqGq for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 00:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 887651293DB for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 00:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnh0L-0004Ty-J2; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:36:25 +0000 Received: from wyvern.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.72]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnh0L-0001el-CA; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:36:25 +0000 To: Pedro Martinez-Julia References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> From: Anton Ivanov X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:36:25 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Cc: "xuling \(F\)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Satish K , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:36:33 -0000 On 14/03/17 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 06:31:41AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: >> On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that here we >>> have another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: >>> >>> 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into >>> several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable >>> properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered incomplete >>> but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. >>> >>> 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set of VPN >>> resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and any change >>> must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the high flexibility >>> qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. >> Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it stands is >> presently deemed sufficient. > For the first perspective, the only "complain" would be that VPNs do not > have all the functions that are present in the underlying transport, but > it is not very decisive. > > However, for the second perspective, we can think of a quite simple use > case that cannot be supplied by current VPN: > > - There are two VPN providers: A and B. > - There is a customer: C. > - C contracts VPN1 from provider A and VPN2 from provider B. > - Then: > + C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W. > + C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same > transport configuration but one would be disabled. > + C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" > transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) > and by somebody (by whom?). > [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all > of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] Can you elaborate on what do you call "transport configuration". Otherwise: "C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W" - trivial, multiple ways to do it depending on technology, been there since late 90-es "C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same transport configuration but one would be disabled" - again trivial, we are talking 1990-es material here. "C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) and by somebody (by whom?)" - I suspect there is some form of language barrier at work here, but you are describing a basic MPLS or VPN shared service. That is again 1990-es material. I spent a large chunk of my time in 2000 migrating one designed for IP VPNs in 1998-1999 to MPLS L3 VPN. That is what? 17 years ago? I am going to repeat. Please provide a use case. Something that has not been solved in 1990es and has not been in the CCNA and (for more advanced cases CCIE) conspectus for the last 10 years if possible. A. A, > - C finishes the contracts and goes elsewhere to meet its requirements. > > Notice that if you change VPN by computer, the functions are achievable > without problem with current computing slicing technologies... > > Regards, > Pedro > From nobody Tue Mar 14 06:02:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A948129424 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:02:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YSoAqTagRCuE for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x241.google.com (mail-wr0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3DF9128874 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x241.google.com with SMTP id g10so23853307wrg.0 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:02:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hVHFRWqk/7Qi1XNoKmhqEoad7A7LZNTHzYnocn7bdKg=; b=LaDyOdFazwExAvuwEDL3Vv9IcHSROI4GRX3HAgqHoOIdGzUKAk039nzuB6LEqn+nKe g1NPRI/vLbC+ADjqXCt0LuxG3elIPGzavjrO4IEl+5PxDCoinWEl9fyiUDz/7xd8wxnL cAKHEMJcpUo/3awwECIOX7RCCNQ8ie3SHOi35DI6t4V2S25e+Dl5hwasePhADGU9oqdb B0WFPM3xiJx+8HKGtBDotYsvQVzZJY11S1BWo9Tv8edRsG4lxf3z21/2ZZsIJLGO6uEB nudfNumxZtOFS1vEAbwOdKjArCpO/O4ksfpYWZgjvrICFM+YkSv6luES5o/Mv4Xsym90 apEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hVHFRWqk/7Qi1XNoKmhqEoad7A7LZNTHzYnocn7bdKg=; b=LhjoHjinL5msRiPH2/Q69UQLw5HsMe4W5yr3eK9ZSP47wnNFjanZUX+MDlrBUOiRv0 ZnFU0tpp8eAKodiWp5mj0QqpLwY2Jxdoo7IsnMHeAbFWwHEa55VjgPE17PFdleKsc/2c tjyipPgihCfd6+7f5Eq3K8lNednJGQHrj1JBaMbY8EPEiEUcrFrNpNShKCHNxsXljkAI GA86xDeg9mFO7+Jej4T0zUUyWTD/7FKnN9S7yZIgBTVACvCN0IIxb1YjYqtYLnGhnGCp 62Mbi/eJL9TTzf2806V6U7wPDRXMQDqBzOyJJ+cBv8WlwSiaNWcJSi/O/z3jw14A2aIP hf3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39kuIqyyQ5ZLk8YlWl43tdJ6UqDD3Yfv/jse8Sv5wivuAzo08whGupPx5WcIfTZoZg== X-Received: by 10.223.154.50 with SMTP id z47mr32363672wrb.76.1489496571306; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:02:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b17sm15436069wma.33.2017.03.14.06.02.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:02:50 -0700 (PDT) To: Pedro Martinez-Julia , Satish K References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: <5a10c068-6892-dd87-8d95-30eb956b1032@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:02:47 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "xuling \(F\)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Anton Ivanov , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:02:54 -0000 On 14/03/2017 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > Hi, > > Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that here we > have another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: > > 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into > several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable > properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered incomplete > but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. > > 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set of VPN > resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and any change > must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the high flexibility > qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. Doesn't that depend on the UNI we provide the customer with? > > As a side remark, a VPN consumer is not able to obtain resources from > different providers and compose them as required. They do not, other than to buy network from one provider and cloud compute from another, but I think the key issue is that it is simpler to buy (and cheaper) to buy from a provider with global reach than buy from multiple and integrate them. Is there something I am missing here? > I think that such kind > of capability must be considered as part of resource "plasticity", which > is also a key associated to "network slicing" flag. Such qualities would > be part of a reference architecture. It certainly needs to be in the architecture, but I think we need to understand what the customer is doing this to achieve, and how the economics work out, since it will be more expensive than buying from a single provider. > > In summary, the VPN technology provides an effective but incomplete > method to slice a transport network, so it must be considered a "legacy > technology" that must be replaced by a proper and improved alternative. I don't like the term legacy here since that implies that it is incapable of a small migration to the new requirements, and I don't think we know that yet. - Stewart > > Regards, > Pedro > From nobody Tue Mar 14 06:52:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3404012003F for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:52:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bcpARNecG_8R for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x231.google.com (mail-wr0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 600D31271B9 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x231.google.com with SMTP id l37so124626770wrc.1 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:52:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tGKIm3xhCzXj/5lWCyTjVpP+zakXUH/8SDiqrZSQluE=; b=ihnHF0nGEATeMhKUUk4Kixep8ky77rzRdGympyt/654AfICLh9a9+alURk67pHsDPU stGED857tFAUb2n/B8sLb3XS+m9ji72RNhNAckbTqVKQ373lgroL6QISk4epT+BCuJ3L suWGwsjDL8yfS9Mwgf1h2dxoBPVwE4ueffQG3CpS9FG+CWC0akkpAW0Kq3FDIl4Ox2Ky lMV1o7ghYvEXyyHr8vurYccuBd9HireDViH6rAB0FPIVpELtB3c2TA5aCkWSbdMn+Ph3 NKfvxFKRe4lv4sVJ25sb5NlcwBYKEA5mGICRDgIk5mO9gueXDbWhD7e6DT/JRKPE7C7k D9kQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tGKIm3xhCzXj/5lWCyTjVpP+zakXUH/8SDiqrZSQluE=; b=Yr7CddS2AbjRrAoZuSkpySaHsqWbWzsUxAA9RShOG2ioaVlCmaLqb/7MTQUjxnndGz ID5YZVh8EtED36Kp2xONPzXzv3MXTrFU3M4/L+IhddkcFMm3rUwH38gHPjBxMMXucMQT aiJEXQn6PBFvxzGTqef4z6657hH6P31e2XYTlt98jUBN+srOwtlv3n+2HSnTU33O/i+Z HeNPGyz0QBRHZKUAR5+XLxZb1z5yRU+2TOkTivdgXdkS1JdqMDYUnKt1w0aOBYEOUIBU rGgFkPIThi3iHK3OldoOITeCgspSGHp2Y4TXTNH7ZiP4q4TEZsIM5c8+0GzmjGHOys6j SIyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39lAKrdb2PgWU4KqtwRieBDXGLPoXUZ+ul7eKWNXcOddjvXXO6Uv3zGHnBfAU2r7Bw== X-Received: by 10.223.138.134 with SMTP id y6mr32889379wry.118.1489499566872; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h3sm29246162wrb.6.2017.03.14.06.52.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:52:45 -0700 (PDT) To: Pedro Martinez-Julia , Anton Ivanov References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:52:42 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "xuling \(F\)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Satish K , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:52:51 -0000 On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all > of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] Pedro I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN and Network Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering Flexible VPN is SDN then that can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. Stewart From nobody Tue Mar 14 07:00:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C971243FD for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:59:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w3GtmIr9qqU4 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4ED41242F7 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DCT96386; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:59:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from YYZEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.218.33.73) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:59:51 +0000 Received: from YYZEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.116]) by YYZEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.250]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:59:39 -0400 From: AshwoodsmithPeter To: Anton Ivanov , Pedro Martinez-Julia , Satish K Thread-Topic: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions Thread-Index: AQHSkTCZFIbofckpiUyw4LbquFIK5aGIAatggAOg4gCAAJqwgIAH1ieAgAAU1ACAABG9gIAAMm9Q Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:59:39 +0000 Message-ID: <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E230A6DE53@YYZEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.157.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.58C7F759.0334, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.116, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: b71d83ed3ccdfcdcfa009f1f2372f63c Archived-At: Cc: "xuling \(F\)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:59:59 -0000 I suggest looking at the demands of variable bit rate frequency split front= haul over packet networks like what is being proposed for eCPRI.=20 I suspect that we'll need end to end configuration of pre-emption and likel= y scheduled Q's if we hope to mix the fronthaul and backhaul (and avoid dua= l physical networks. 20Mhz in time domain is about 1Gb to the antenna (down or up) over packet, = but in frequency domain and with unused subcarriers eliminated it varies 30= -300M depending on the number of devices and their usage.... now mix all th= ese together for thousands of antennas possibly separated by slice and comb= ine some of the hops with backhaul traffic ... gets interesting. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivan= ov Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 2:32 AM To: Pedro Martinez-Julia ; Satish K Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; netslic= es@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contribu= tions On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > Hi, > > Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that here=20 > we have another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: > > 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into=20 > several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable=20 > properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered=20 > incomplete but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. > > 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set of=20 > VPN resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and any=20 > change must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the high=20 > flexibility qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it stands is presen= tly deemed sufficient. A. > > As a side remark, a VPN consumer is not able to obtain resources from=20 > different providers and compose them as required. I think that such=20 > kind of capability must be considered as part of resource=20 > "plasticity", which is also a key associated to "network slicing"=20 > flag. Such qualities would be part of a reference architecture. > > In summary, the VPN technology provides an effective but incomplete=20 > method to slice a transport network, so it must be considered a=20 > "legacy technology" that must be replaced by a proper and improved altern= ative. > > Regards, > Pedro > _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Tue Mar 14 07:25:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0024126DAC for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:23:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dNdFFknMrb1b for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D9F1126DD8 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2EEN7TY004427; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:23:07 GMT Received: from 950129200 ([176.241.251.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2EEN11U004396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:23:03 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Stewart Bryant'" , "'Pedro Martinez-Julia'" , "'Anton Ivanov'" References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:23:03 -0000 Message-ID: <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQM+pnty1lQHaIhz63UJyi67jiGuwQGDTZ2LAfNOpt4CHGa/JAImrhhiAjHYXk8B+SQ0LAHkK8z7AXomSE2eQjZpwA== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-22940.007 X-TM-AS-Result: No--23.779-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--23.779-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: +f/wAVSGjugwJ6xbTjBa5ilrosmS0SOA7FOxi7YfN1gNht78/JfyBLD0 5DGapUwBDfLFCF+SnFl3Q6f+WWfNdNEQrO9Lrj6hBEfU2vugRF2GtSG8aCufng+kahHW2Heehl1 jQap9SmLWXA2komjZDKPAm6ICHX9j1xQ2OgXti5XLXx7n52sqBiHqoEAHGJkCtXl9IxEPXOqvto lIcPLoeI+LfrOXhVDqN5PbzyayxNQT6F/I3FhqMBNEPNwNrw/rwoAL8oEWzRDkMnUVL5d0EynlW lpcpVnS2Cu35y/E+SKWJcbpNaIEAPs6AFvEdeZfHPCema1j/6t9LQinZ4QefL6qvLNjDYTwzhtq OA7SSC+iV3aaJQgD9QtuKBGekqUpPjKoPgsq7cA= Archived-At: Cc: "'xuling \(F\)'" , "'Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com'" , 'Satish K' , netslices@ietf.org, "'Kiran.Makhijani'" Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:23:24 -0000 I'm a little concerned that the discussion is circular. The intention of discussions in this thread seems to be to take technologies that are on the table (VPN, SDN, ...) and use them to say either: - and so we can achieve Network Slicing with no extra work, but with careful bolting together of existing technologies or - and so we are missing some features to achieve network slicing. Anton, I think, is asking for use cases as a way of determining what network slicing seeks to deliver that cannot already be delivered using current tools. Pedro, I think, is describing what you can achieve using current tools. What we are (all?) seeking is a concise definition of network slicing that marks it out as different from what can already be done so that we can identify (and do) whatever additional work is required. Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant > Sent: 14 March 2017 13:53 > To: Pedro Martinez-Julia; Anton Ivanov > Cc: xuling (F); Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Satish K; netslices@ietf.org; > Kiran.Makhijani > Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions > > > > On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > > [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all > > of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] > > Pedro > > I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN and > Network > Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering Flexible VPN is SDN then > that > can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. > > Stewart > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Tue Mar 14 07:30:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBFD9128D3E for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:30:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QSq0h5VUKEdy for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:30:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AA3CF0E2-C577-44D2-8A6F-30D926199C02 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Stewart=20 I am also concerned with the narrow view the "Flexible VPN is SDN then = that can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed=E2=80=9D = which is IMHO not very pactical and at best secondary for NS and the = emerging new IETF work and potential new WG.=20 This would be a perfect subject for VPN++ in IETF. Please reconsider Alex =20 =20 > On 14 Mar 2017, at 13:52, Stewart Bryant > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >> [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), = all >> of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] >=20 > Pedro >=20 > I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN and = Network > Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering Flexible VPN is SDN = then that > can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. >=20 > Stewart >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices = --Apple-Mail=_AA3CF0E2-C577-44D2-8A6F-30D926199C02 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"

Hi Stewart 

I am also concerned with the narrow view the "Flexible VPN is SDN then that can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed=E2=80=9D which is IMHO not very pactical and at = best secondary for NS and the emerging new IETF work and potential new = WG. 

This would be a perfect subject for VPN++ in IETF. Please = reconsider


Alex

 
 
On 14 Mar 2017, at 13:52, Stewart Bryant = <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:



On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia = wrote:
=   [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. = SDN), all
  of these requirements, and much = more, would be supported.]

Pedro

I am concerned that this = conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN and Network
Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering  Flexible = VPN is SDN then that
can and should be done, regardless of = whether NS is needed.

Stewart

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

= --Apple-Mail=_AA3CF0E2-C577-44D2-8A6F-30D926199C02-- From nobody Tue Mar 14 07:38:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 447951274E8 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:37:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=realsdn.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5SzPe_PYNCg3 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ajmclachlan.com (pigmail.ajmclachlan.com [78.31.107.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC73A1289C4 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:37:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=realsdn.org; s=default; t=1489502277; bh=xitfkiSfWYIxQ6gI7BJM+H4m4+/E1uG+ygKzfj6Cvbg=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=l1aJXrZJsdbE0OsYJLfUctwznVJWsF1P7iewhsoXpvjaYTdlQ2BX7lCRys9p2dAM5 e/6YIEpQFLE8WWveabrsQ6KEJjD4/qQemuosiw+AhXdhNzJkr5cX41JlxBuirr272G NComxuJWeBChbnQ+Ysg6Ox9dSOi/edlNIhedZBLY= X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)); Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Andrew McLachlan In-Reply-To: <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:37:43 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> To: Adrian Farrel X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-Encryption: SSL encrypted Archived-At: Cc: netslices@ietf.org, "xuling \(F\)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Pedro Martinez-Julia , "Kiran.Makhijani" , Stewart Bryant , Satish K , Anton Ivanov Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:37:59 -0000 Hey Adrian A perfect summary and akin to what a number of us have been saying for a = while. Personally I=E2=80=99m still not seeing any use-case denoting new = technology requirements, only repetitions of definitions fir what folks = believe 5G is/might be. I still regard this as an orchestration exercise which will require = higher layer tools/platforms which are really in the domain of OSS and = out of scope of the IETF. Cheers Andrew > On 14 Mar 2017, at 14:23, Adrian Farrel wrote: >=20 > I'm a little concerned that the discussion is circular. >=20 > The intention of discussions in this thread seems to be to take = technologies > that are on the table (VPN, SDN, ...) and use them to say either: >=20 > - and so we can achieve Network Slicing with no extra work, but with = careful > bolting together of existing technologies >=20 > or >=20 > - and so we are missing some features to achieve network slicing. >=20 > Anton, I think, is asking for use cases as a way of determining what = network > slicing seeks to deliver that cannot already be delivered using = current tools. >=20 > Pedro, I think, is describing what you can achieve using current = tools. >=20 > What we are (all?) seeking is a concise definition of network slicing = that marks > it out as different from what can already be done so that we can = identify (and > do) whatever additional work is required. >=20 > Adrian >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Stewart > Bryant >> Sent: 14 March 2017 13:53 >> To: Pedro Martinez-Julia; Anton Ivanov >> Cc: xuling (F); Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Satish K; = netslices@ietf.org; >> Kiran.Makhijani >> Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>> [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), = all >>> of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] >>=20 >> Pedro >>=20 >> I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN = and >> Network >> Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering Flexible VPN is SDN = then >> that >> can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. >>=20 >> Stewart >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk Tue Mar 14 08:01:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7C512948C for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:01:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id smdzRuPzgO_b for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7ECE128C84 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnnuM-0004lq-7x for netslices@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:58:42 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.11.207]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnnuL-0006c0-Vw for netslices@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:58:42 +0000 To: netslices@ietf.org References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:58:41 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:01:44 -0000 +1, Concur. Everyone is trying to line up their favourite "ultra-deterministic network bugbear" for inclusion. We have been through this many times before - MPLS, MPLS-TE, PBB-TE, SDN, etc. If the most extreme bugbears are included, the standard is moribund and dead on arrival (we have seen this with PBB-TE). While the definition of "extreme" keeps changing over time, as technology allows us to achieve more, there is still a cut-off line. Inclusion of use cases beyond the cut-off line makes a standard non-viable because we have to gold plate equipment built to the standard spec for the most extreme case. There has to be a concise definition which describes it and marks it out as different from what we have so far. Similarly, we need to have a compromise how far do we go in terms of including extreme use cases for the whole thing to be viable. A. On 14/03/17 14:23, Adrian Farrel wrote: > I'm a little concerned that the discussion is circular. > > The intention of discussions in this thread seems to be to take technologies > that are on the table (VPN, SDN, ...) and use them to say either: > > - and so we can achieve Network Slicing with no extra work, but with careful > bolting together of existing technologies > > or > > - and so we are missing some features to achieve network slicing. > > Anton, I think, is asking for use cases as a way of determining what network > slicing seeks to deliver that cannot already be delivered using current tools. > > Pedro, I think, is describing what you can achieve using current tools. > > What we are (all?) seeking is a concise definition of network slicing that marks > it out as different from what can already be done so that we can identify (and > do) whatever additional work is required. > > Adrian > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart > Bryant >> Sent: 14 March 2017 13:53 >> To: Pedro Martinez-Julia; Anton Ivanov >> Cc: xuling (F); Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Satish K; netslices@ietf.org; >> Kiran.Makhijani >> Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions >> >> >> On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>> [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all >>> of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] >> Pedro >> >> I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN and >> Network >> Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering Flexible VPN is SDN then >> that >> can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. >> >> Stewart >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > From nobody Tue Mar 14 08:35:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACCAE12947D for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:35:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nYr41NDAmVFy for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x244.google.com (mail-wm0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69207129421 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x244.google.com with SMTP id z63so394376wmg.2 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:35:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bkSDmcV8ZXZW9K/W9gEoFmXigiqIi8FPz2pl4glxtLA=; b=c4JzjkWeYKobWEjPS6Qah4jwl5oCxFG7F/IoVS9jUQGCJMH/m89zkHxxqcrYYuppjJ /PqBbiTznFSw8Ms/hQrF+vTr+hfSyzsN6TaZ9ViFycud3eGURJ8H7ZG49yT3Fevh4Isd iMhQQWBlgc8Ep/alSv45DuYEtALPFrbJ5nXxdWCD6+W0YLuQg/R6Kka00xsJDYXeBV2T TqjOL8cHGpbttziUIWZDybxQwGDZcYXorP0FGWW/VZtX70qd1PPfCVfH+oifmmWxtXd8 F9EeQBP+xSYXSSJSgDBRcTo+8nq/YzI90zLJfjE+/wMKwjd4kWrjCpgW9iotjNoKQGu9 6iJQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bkSDmcV8ZXZW9K/W9gEoFmXigiqIi8FPz2pl4glxtLA=; b=FM62vjVw5N0AE2IOokLqn3It+XBU3M8KptwlTJvQumfQQF7mXyi3vPn9XZRq3nrUTW spsc5S6EIQTkHHvp+k+g3AHPn/PEsJaJFFY1EogajF0acpj/PWRy+jGjL3qz1L5EBy11 WBmb0FyP1aHyM46ld1lpIgxtuy54oImiMY4wwRf10kp8jOCfrpi8ZgpG2uIJDGJA2k+7 vn8XZrLRrjVnjEKGT98B1ZqdDSjTOntI2bivskY2vw7po24y0HOx7EFZBm1D3u6crEIz jCE5qI1QdYZStMj7+tmjXOlH5YcWKz8CZNHG+I5w9lEuy8BunjHmCzEIC9oBkhgCSSOU /sNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H2Prq4jBt5tuASSy2YveYJb59HfbRpzEQKIcY8o3BHT9fz3BZLZKMlH1SO0LtdPzg== X-Received: by 10.28.143.84 with SMTP id r81mr14785081wmd.14.1489505710686; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5sm29516548wrd.58.2017.03.14.08.35.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:35:10 -0700 (PDT) To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Pedro Martinez-Julia' , 'Anton Ivanov' References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> Cc: "'xuling (F)'" , "'Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com'" , 'Satish K' , netslices@ietf.org, "'Kiran.Makhijani'" From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: <3826d520-1563-6560-753f-1bce3b9a2e5e@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:35:06 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:35:13 -0000 On 14/03/2017 14:23, Adrian Farrel wrote: > I'm a little concerned that the discussion is circular. > > The intention of discussions in this thread seems to be to take technologies > that are on the table (VPN, SDN, ...) and use them to say either: > > - and so we can achieve Network Slicing with no extra work, but with careful > bolting together of existing technologies > > or > > - and so we are missing some features to achieve network slicing. I am trying to find out which of the two cases applies. The way I am trying to do that is to write an architecture for what the mobile providers tell me they want to deploy and see how well the bits fit together, and if there are any missing pieces. This seems as good as any way of working step by step through the system to look for any mismatches rather than making assumptions. > > Anton, I think, is asking for use cases as a way of determining what network > slicing seeks to deliver that cannot already be delivered using current tools. So one of the more demanding applications is wide area augmented reality, which I am told has a low latency ceiling. I am worried that IoT will stress the scaling. I am also worried by the radio engineers telling me that they cannot afford the energy needed to send a standard IP stack. If that is the case, and it seems intuitively likely, then it is not yet clear how we map that traffic, i.e. with a gateway or with a PW, or something else. Then there is the need to do a much better job with mobility than we do today, particularly if the mobile architecture embraces a more distributed design than they use today. Current VPNs, be that IP or MPLS don't do an especially good job of mobility. There is work on ID-LOC split, but I don't think that can be described as mature yet, nor as far as I can see have they got to grips with high velocity mobility. If they have great, we can take that an make sure that it is deployable on the VPN technology of choice. > Pedro, I think, is describing what you can achieve using current tools. Of course there is a question of whether we are talking current deployed tools, or tools in active development. > What we are (all?) seeking is a concise definition of network slicing that marks > it out as different from what can already be done so that we can identify (and > do) whatever additional work is required. Using Ocam's definition of concise, that is certainly what I seek. - Stewart From nobody Tue Mar 14 08:40:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886AF129683 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:40:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xyhAusHEurbS for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur01on0106.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.1.106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3633129681 for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:40:07 -0000 Hello=20 This is very relevant discussion what you have here. This boils down to wha= t is a network slice for the IETF. If a transport network slice is just a V= PN then there is very little added value what the IETF can provide here. Fo= r 3GPP, ETSI, NGMN, TM have richer view on slicing where management and OSS= /BSS play a role.=20 =20 VPN !=3D slice=20 Slice =3D=3D application/service resources + VPN Best regards Hannu=20 -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivan= ov Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:36 AM To: Pedro Martinez-Julia Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Satish = K ; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contribu= tions On 14/03/17 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 06:31:41AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: >> On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that here w= e >>> have another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: >>> >>> 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into >>> several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable >>> properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered incomplet= e >>> but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. >>> >>> 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set of VP= N >>> resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and any change >>> must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the high flexibility >>> qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. >> Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it stands is >> presently deemed sufficient. > For the first perspective, the only "complain" would be that VPNs do not > have all the functions that are present in the underlying transport, but > it is not very decisive. > > However, for the second perspective, we can think of a quite simple use > case that cannot be supplied by current VPN: > > - There are two VPN providers: A and B. > - There is a customer: C. > - C contracts VPN1 from provider A and VPN2 from provider B. > - Then: > + C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W. > + C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same > transport configuration but one would be disabled. > + C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" > transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) > and by somebody (by whom?). > [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all > of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] Can you elaborate on what do you call "transport configuration". Otherwise: "C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W" - trivial,= multiple ways to do it depending on technology, been there since late 90-e= s "C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same transpo= rt configuration but one would be disabled" - again trivial, we are talking= 1990-es material here.=20 "C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) and by somebody (by whom?)" - I suspect there is some form of language barrier at work here, but you are describing a basic MPLS or VPN shared service. That is again 1990-es material. I spent a large chunk of my time in 2000 migrating one designed for IP VPNs in 1998-1999 to MPLS L3 VPN. That is what? 17 years ago? I am going to repeat. Please provide a use case. Something that has not been solved in 1990es and has not been in the CCNA and (for more advanced cases CCIE) conspectus for the last 10 years if possible. A. A, > - C finishes the contracts and goes elsewhere to meet its requirements. > > Notice that if you change VPN by computer, the functions are achievable > without problem with current computing slicing technologies... > > Regards, > Pedro > _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Tue Mar 14 08:48:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 529C81296CD for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:48:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RS2xr67fy0bA for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8F561296C6 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnoga-0004nI-42; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:48:32 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.11.207]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnogZ-0007Ck-SP; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:48:31 +0000 To: "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" , Pedro Martinez-Julia References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> Cc: "xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Satish K , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <810f61bd-2537-f056-544a-35b96ddcb7d8@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:48:31 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:48:39 -0000 On 14/03/17 15:40, Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) wrote: > Hello > > This is very relevant discussion what you have here. This boils down to what is a network slice for the IETF. If a transport network slice is just a VPN then there is very little added value what the IETF can provide here. For 3GPP, ETSI, NGMN, TM have richer view on slicing where management and OSS/BSS play a role. Not quite, see below. > > VPN != slice > > Slice == application/service resources + VPN That has an obvious IETF role, specifically the interworking with datacenter, NVO3, SFC and friends. That also clearly delineates the whole fronthaul RAN spaghetti out of scope. I like it. In fact, my view is nearly identical. Let's keep it to this exact scope. +1 A. > > Best regards > Hannu > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:36 AM > To: Pedro Martinez-Julia > Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Satish K ; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani > Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions > > On 14/03/17 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 06:31:41AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: >>> On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that here we >>>> have another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: >>>> >>>> 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into >>>> several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable >>>> properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered incomplete >>>> but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. >>>> >>>> 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set of VPN >>>> resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and any change >>>> must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the high flexibility >>>> qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. >>> Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it stands is >>> presently deemed sufficient. >> For the first perspective, the only "complain" would be that VPNs do not >> have all the functions that are present in the underlying transport, but >> it is not very decisive. >> >> However, for the second perspective, we can think of a quite simple use >> case that cannot be supplied by current VPN: >> >> - There are two VPN providers: A and B. >> - There is a customer: C. >> - C contracts VPN1 from provider A and VPN2 from provider B. >> - Then: >> + C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W. >> + C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same >> transport configuration but one would be disabled. >> + C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" >> transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) >> and by somebody (by whom?). >> [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all >> of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] > Can you elaborate on what do you call "transport configuration". > > Otherwise: > > "C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W" - trivial, multiple ways to do it depending on technology, been there since late 90-es > > "C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same transport configuration but one would be disabled" - again trivial, we are talking 1990-es material here. > > "C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" > transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) and > by somebody (by whom?)" - I suspect there is some form of language > barrier at work here, but you are describing a basic MPLS or VPN shared > service. That is again 1990-es material. I spent a large chunk of my > time in 2000 migrating one designed for IP VPNs in 1998-1999 to MPLS L3 > VPN. That is what? 17 years ago? > > I am going to repeat. Please provide a use case. Something that has not > been solved in 1990es and has not been in the CCNA and (for more > advanced cases CCIE) conspectus for the last 10 years if possible. > > A. > > > > > A, > >> - C finishes the contracts and goes elsewhere to meet its requirements. >> >> Notice that if you change VPN by computer, the functions are achievable >> without problem with current computing slicing technologies... >> >> Regards, >> Pedro >> > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > From nobody Tue Mar 14 08:52:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7791296D3 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:52:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FRVP0HHuDSyQ for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2426A129642 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2EFqPnI032647; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:52:25 GMT Received: from 950129200 ([176.241.251.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2EFqJUN032630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:52:21 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Flinck, Hannu \(Nokia - FI/Espoo\)'" , "'Anton Ivanov'" , "'Pedro Martinez-Julia'" Cc: "'xuling \(F\)'" , "'Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com'" , "'Satish K'" , , "'Kiran.Makhijani'" References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:52:21 -0000 Message-ID: <04c001d29cda$fb327fc0$f1977f40$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQM+pnty1lQHaIhz63UJyi67jiGuwQGDTZ2LAfNOpt4CHGa/JAImrhhiAjHYXk8B+SQ0LAHkK8z7Avf8VUsB/d8WMZ4mckyA Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-22942.000 X-TM-AS-Result: No--5.718-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--5.718-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: nVQUmLJJeyanykMun0J1wmzBijri5+RVZbPBlDYvqM2qvcIF1TcLYPeu KF1WOD5gd3mUtMNVEso6ocIxgws8GKNmd7pYp+mtU+OjsPhIWDjjfsgUluKTIBIQsvYTMyKwb1W 5p1u8tFyXHMiD2rfa0Yw29gAMKgM5k3lCx30bxUqeAiCmPx4NwLTrdaH1ZWqCdcD5PxhxmQPefx 4FmMaZTOTCMddcL/gjsjvNV98mpPOe3j5AXDkZEUv2AM5SVzN6OoCOHfvVMFJXTfvj/BOSuv7TB NZQT1rtftwZ3X11IV0= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:52:38 -0000 Thanks Hannu, This is the clearest and simplest statement I've seen on what a slice is. Perhaps I am struggling because I need to see things in their simplest form :-) > Slice == application/service resources + VPN But, of course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a little. What is an "application resource"? I take it to mean that it is a network resource that has been assigned for the sole control/use by a specific application. If so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical resource and a virtual resource so long as the capability of the resource is guaranteed? And, indeed, what is a resource? Thanks, Adrian From nobody Tue Mar 14 08:58:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA5141296D5 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:58:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.796, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=surreyac.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yDqWLCkQcAdl for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 08:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.bemta3.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta3.messagelabs.com [195.245.230.165]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E922712960D for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:58:51 -0000 Anton "That also clearly delineates the whole fronthaul RAN spaghetti out of scop= e." If the RAN is an eCPRI/nFAPI implementation, then the "slice" could be a co= mbination of application (here C-RAN elements) and transport to the RRH (ne= twork). As the requirements of application + network are very much determ= ined by the exact MAC/PHY split point (in this particular example), I would= say that RAN (to some extent) is in scope! The same could also be true for IoT RAN where we want as-little processing = as possible on the remote radio head with baseband processing centralised. So, maybe we should say that air interface is out-of-scope, but any other e= lement associated with transport is in scope? Thoughts? David -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivan= ov Sent: 14 March 2017 15:49 To: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) ; Pe= dro Martinez-Julia Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Satish = K ; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contribu= tions On 14/03/17 15:40, Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) wrote: > Hello > > This is very relevant discussion what you have here. This boils down to w= hat is a network slice for the IETF. If a transport network slice is just a= VPN then there is very little added value what the IETF can provide here. = For 3GPP, ETSI, NGMN, TM have richer view on slicing where management and O= SS/BSS play a role. Not quite, see below. > =20 > VPN !=3D slice > > Slice =3D=3D application/service resources + VPN That has an obvious IETF role, specifically the interworking with datacente= r, NVO3, SFC and friends. That also clearly delineates the whole fronthaul RAN spaghetti out of scope= . I like it. In fact, my view is nearly identical. Let's keep it to this exac= t scope. +1 A. > > Best regards > Hannu > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton=20 > Ivanov > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:36 AM > To: Pedro Martinez-Julia > Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com;=20 > Satish K ; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani=20 > > Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for=20 > Contributions > > On 14/03/17 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 06:31:41AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: >>> On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that=20 >>>> here we have another example of the two main viewpoints of network sli= cing: >>>> >>>> 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into=20 >>>> several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable=20 >>>> properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered=20 >>>> incomplete but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. >>>> >>>> 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set=20 >>>> of VPN resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and=20 >>>> any change must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the=20 >>>> high flexibility qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. >>> Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it stands is=20 >>> presently deemed sufficient. >> For the first perspective, the only "complain" would be that VPNs do=20 >> not have all the functions that are present in the underlying=20 >> transport, but it is not very decisive. >> >> However, for the second perspective, we can think of a quite simple=20 >> use case that cannot be supplied by current VPN: >> >> - There are two VPN providers: A and B. >> - There is a customer: C. >> - C contracts VPN1 from provider A and VPN2 from provider B. >> - Then: >> + C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W. >> + C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same >> transport configuration but one would be disabled. >> + C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" >> transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) >> and by somebody (by whom?). >> [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all >> of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] > Can you elaborate on what do you call "transport configuration". > > Otherwise: > > "C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W" -=20 > trivial, multiple ways to do it depending on technology, been there=20 > since late 90-es > > "C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same trans= port configuration but one would be disabled" - again trivial, we are talki= ng 1990-es material here. > > "C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" > transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) and=20 > by somebody (by whom?)" - I suspect there is some form of language=20 > barrier at work here, but you are describing a basic MPLS or VPN=20 > shared service. That is again 1990-es material. I spent a large chunk=20 > of my time in 2000 migrating one designed for IP VPNs in 1998-1999 to=20 > MPLS L3 VPN. That is what? 17 years ago? > > I am going to repeat. Please provide a use case. Something that has=20 > not been solved in 1990es and has not been in the CCNA and (for more=20 > advanced cases CCIE) conspectus for the last 10 years if possible. > > A. > > > > > A, > >> - C finishes the contracts and goes elsewhere to meet its requirements. >> >> Notice that if you change VPN by computer, the functions are=20 >> achievable without problem with current computing slicing technologies..= . >> >> Regards, >> Pedro >> > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Tue Mar 14 09:18:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD97132946 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:18:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xNyZo-QJ2KMR for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51BDA129766 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:18:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DCU17041; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:18:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from YYZEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.218.33.73) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:18:19 +0000 Received: from YYZEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.116]) by YYZEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.250]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:18:11 -0400 From: AshwoodsmithPeter To: "anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk" , "hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-labs.com" , "pedro@nict.go.jp" , "d.lake@surrey.ac.uk" CC: "xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@interdigital.com" , "satish.ietf@gmail.com" , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions Thread-Index: AQHSnN6S1OLOpA/K40mjs62ZCKOm3w== Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:18:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <810f61bd-2537-f056-544a-35b96ddcb7d8@kot-begemot.co.uk>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_etPan58c817c09c035ce370diPhonePeterAshwoodSmith_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.58C817CD.0103, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.116, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 87a973599fde280ef8f75a5017c3f46a Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:18:28 -0000 --_000_etPan58c817c09c035ce370diPhonePeterAshwoodSmith_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agreed 100% - packet fronthaul eCPRI/ROE is the new hard bit with impacts on the cran /= dran costs size / diameter etc. From: d.lake@surrey.ac.uk To: anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk; hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-labs.com; pedro= @nict.go.jp; Cc: xuling (F); Xavier.Defoy@interdigital.com; satish.ietf@gmail.com; netsl= ices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani; Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contribu= tions Time: 2017-03-14 10:59:36 Anton "That also clearly delineates the whole fronthaul RAN spaghetti out of scop= e." If the RAN is an eCPRI/nFAPI implementation, then the "slice" could be a co= mbination of application (here C-RAN elements) and transport to the RRH (ne= twork). As the requirements of application + network are very much determ= ined by the exact MAC/PHY split point (in this particular example), I would= say that RAN (to some extent) is in scope! The same could also be true for IoT RAN where we want as-little processing = as possible on the remote radio head with baseband processing centralised. So, maybe we should say that air interface is out-of-scope, but any other e= lement associated with transport is in scope? Thoughts? David -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivan= ov Sent: 14 March 2017 15:49 To: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) ; Pe= dro Martinez-Julia Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Satish = K ; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contribu= tions On 14/03/17 15:40, Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) wrote: > Hello > > This is very relevant discussion what you have here. This boils down to w= hat is a network slice for the IETF. If a transport network slice is just a= VPN then there is very little added value what the IETF can provide here. = For 3GPP, ETSI, NGMN, TM have richer view on slicing where management and O= SS/BSS play a role. Not quite, see below. > > VPN !=3D slice > > Slice =3D=3D application/service resources + VPN That has an obvious IETF role, specifically the interworking with datacente= r, NVO3, SFC and friends. That also clearly delineates the whole fronthaul RAN spaghetti out of scope= . I like it. In fact, my view is nearly identical. Let's keep it to this exac= t scope. +1 A. > > Best regards > Hannu > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton > Ivanov > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:36 AM > To: Pedro Martinez-Julia > Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; > Satish K ; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani > > Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions > > On 14/03/17 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 06:31:41AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: >>> On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that >>>> here we have another example of the two main viewpoints of network sli= cing: >>>> >>>> 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into >>>> several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable >>>> properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered >>>> incomplete but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. >>>> >>>> 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set >>>> of VPN resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and >>>> any change must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the >>>> high flexibility qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. >>> Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it stands is >>> presently deemed sufficient. >> For the first perspective, the only "complain" would be that VPNs do >> not have all the functions that are present in the underlying >> transport, but it is not very decisive. >> >> However, for the second perspective, we can think of a quite simple >> use case that cannot be supplied by current VPN: >> >> - There are two VPN providers: A and B. >> - There is a customer: C. >> - C contracts VPN1 from provider A and VPN2 from provider B. >> - Then: >> + C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W. >> + C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same >> transport configuration but one would be disabled. >> + C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" >> transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) >> and by somebody (by whom?). >> [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all >> of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] > Can you elaborate on what do you call "transport configuration". > > Otherwise: > > "C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W" - > trivial, multiple ways to do it depending on technology, been there > since late 90-es > > "C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same trans= port configuration but one would be disabled" - again trivial, we are talki= ng 1990-es material here. > > "C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" > transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) and > by somebody (by whom?)" - I suspect there is some form of language > barrier at work here, but you are describing a basic MPLS or VPN > shared service. That is again 1990-es material. I spent a large chunk > of my time in 2000 migrating one designed for IP VPNs in 1998-1999 to > MPLS L3 VPN. That is what? 17 years ago? > > I am going to repeat. Please provide a use case. Something that has > not been solved in 1990es and has not been in the CCNA and (for more > advanced cases CCIE) conspectus for the last 10 years if possible. > > A. > > > > > A, > >> - C finishes the contracts and goes elsewhere to meet its requirements. >> >> Notice that if you change VPN by computer, the functions are >> achievable without problem with current computing slicing technologies..= . >> >> Regards, >> Pedro >> > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices --_000_etPan58c817c09c035ce370diPhonePeterAshwoodSmith_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Agreed 100%
- packet fronthaul eCPRI/ROE is the new = hard bit with impacts on the cran / = ;dran costs size / diameter etc. 


From: d.lake@surrey.ac.uk
To: anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk; hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-lab= s.com; pedro@nict.go.jp;
Cc: xuling (F); Xavier.Defoy@interdigital.com; satish.ietf@gmai= l.com; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani;
Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call = for Contributions
Time: 2017-03-14 10:59:36


Anton

"That also clearly delineates the whole fronthaul RAN spaghetti out of= scope."

If the RAN is an eCPRI/nFAPI implementation, then the "slice" cou= ld be a combination of application (here C-RAN elements) and transport to t= he RRH (network).   As the requirements of application + netw= ork are very much determined by the exact MAC/PHY split point (in this particular example), I would say that RAN (to some extent) = is in scope!

The same could also be true for IoT RAN where we want as-little processing = as possible on the remote radio head with baseband processing centralised.<= br>
So, maybe we should say that air interface is out-of-scope, but any other e= lement associated with transport is in scope?

Thoughts?

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netsl= ices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov
Sent: 14 March 2017 15:49
To: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) <hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-labs.com&g= t;; Pedro Martinez-Julia <pedro@nict.go.jp>
Cc: xuling (F) <xuling3@huawei.com>; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; S= atish K <satish.ietf@gmail.com>; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani = <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contribu= tions

On 14/03/17 15:40, Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) wrote:
> Hello
>
> This is very relevant discussion what you have here. This boils down t= o what is a network slice for the IETF. If a transport network slice is jus= t a VPN then there is very little added value what the IETF can provide her= e. For 3GPP, ETSI, NGMN, TM have richer view on slicing where management and OSS/BSS play a role.

Not quite, see below.

>  
> VPN !=3D slice
>
> Slice =3D=3D application/service resources + VPN

That has an obvious IETF role, specifically the interworking with datacente= r, NVO3, SFC and friends.

That also clearly delineates the whole fronthaul RAN spaghetti out of scope= .

I like it. In fact, my view is nearly identical. Let's keep it to this exac= t scope.

+1

A.

>
> Best regards
> Hannu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netslices [mailto:= netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton
> Ivanov
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:36 AM
> To: Pedro Martinez-Julia <pedro@nict.go.jp>
> Cc: xuling (F) <xuling3@huawei.com>; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.c= om;
> Satish K <satish.ietf@gmail.com>; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makh= ijani
> <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com>
> Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions
>
> On 14/03/17 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 06:31:41AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote:<= br> >>> On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must ad= d that
>>>> here we have another example of the two main viewpoints of= network slicing:
>>>>
>>>> 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sli= ced into
>>>> several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate com= parable
>>>> properties to its underlying network so VPN can be conside= red
>>>> incomplete but valid as a method for slicing a transport n= etwork.
>>>>
>>>> 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receiv= e a set
>>>> of VPN resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN &qu= ot;as is" and
>>>> any change must be requested to the provider. This view la= cks the
>>>> high flexibility qualities that we are assigning to networ= k slicing.
>>> Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it sta= nds is
>>> presently deemed sufficient.
>> For the first perspective, the only "complain" would be = that VPNs do
>> not have all the functions that are present in the underlying
>> transport, but it is not very decisive.
>>
>> However, for the second perspective, we can think of a quite simpl= e
>> use case that cannot be supplied by current VPN:
>>
>> - There are two VPN providers: A and B.
>> - There is a customer: C.
>> - C contracts VPN1 from provider A and VPN2 from provider B.
>> - Then:
>>    + C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigg= er VPN with more B/W.
>>    + C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so = they would have the same
>>      transport configuration but one woul= d be disabled.
>>    + C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they wo= uld have "compatible"
>>      transport configuration and should b= e connected somewhere (where?)
>>      and by somebody (by whom?).
>>    [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network sl= icing (e.g. SDN), all
>>    of these requirements, and much more, would be s= upported.]
> Can you elaborate on what do you call "transport configuration&qu= ot;.
>
> Otherwise:
>
> "C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W&q= uot; -
> trivial, multiple ways to do it depending on technology, been there > since late 90-es
>
> "C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the sa= me transport configuration but one would be disabled" - again trivial,= we are talking 1990-es material here.
>
> "C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compati= ble"
> transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) and=
> by somebody (by whom?)" - I suspect there is some form of languag= e
> barrier at work here, but you are describing a basic MPLS or VPN
> shared service. That is again 1990-es material. I spent a large chunk =
> of my time in 2000 migrating one designed for IP VPNs in 1998-1999 to =
> MPLS L3 VPN. That is what? 17 years ago?
>
> I am going to repeat. Please provide a use case. Something that has > not been solved in 1990es and has not been in the CCNA and (for more <= br> > advanced cases CCIE) conspectus for the last 10 years if possible.
>
> A.
>
>
>
>
> A,
>
>> - C finishes the contracts and goes elsewhere to meet its requirem= ents.
>>
>> Notice that if you change VPN by computer, the functions are
>> achievable without problem with current computing slicing technolo= gies...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Pedro
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:40:36 -0000 " What is an "application resource"?" Well, what is an "application?" Take, for example, an IoT solution and th= e application here is something that terminates the session and carries out= some higher-layer function. "Application Resources" here would include c= ompute, memory, storage and network requirements (often the latter just "th= ere be a network connection"). If the "application" is a packet-forwarding engine (for example, an S-GW), = then it could just be the definition of interfaces to the rest of the netwo= rk. However, in NFV terminology, a "virtualised" S-GW will have a VNFD (po= orly defined acronym but seems to be bandied about by all-and-sundry) which= could just describe compute, memory storage and network requirements for t= he virtual function. It is all rather messy, IMvHO. David -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Far= rel Sent: 14 March 2017 15:52 To: 'Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)' ; = 'Anton Ivanov' ; 'Pedro Martinez-Julia' Cc: 'xuling (F)' ; 'Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com' ; 'Satish K' ; netslices@= ietf.org; 'Kiran.Makhijani' Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contribu= tions Thanks Hannu, This is the clearest and simplest statement I've seen on what a slice is. Perhaps I am struggling because I need to see things in their simplest form= :-) > Slice =3D=3D application/service resources + VPN But, of course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a little. What is an "application resource"? I take it to mean that it is a network resource that has been assigned for = the sole control/use by a specific application. If so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical resource= and a virtual resource so long as the capability of the resource is guaran= teed? And, indeed, what is a resource? Thanks, Adrian _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Tue Mar 14 09:43:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856871297B8 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:43:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ANSwSGgwCaxZ for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x244.google.com (mail-wm0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44D6D1297BE for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x244.google.com with SMTP id v190so690827wme.3 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:43:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=u3lpJ0OPGHpVYksJTOLM4QhBKkJpcXCoP+PZvWCxEYE=; b=I2e9wiBqUuDH/Valg/oOd5mh0nesm4ficE/tkYXtAu70XmLtnSR8VgJMXZlUls5GTy WOtxoNnVjYGdt8Ml0NRiyorYsBfza2IiswgPq4UIjm8D4lk4VwkZbGTjW/xRHbAnOgcP 4nJ1rxBemdMeT0EKuIhkRuQkXRk+y7bahvR99VIbeF+KrR2wVz3QQsFPQN2IJllrS5Vb mdgWOKtM/bK5BBKhFqHHpFL+nzRvXEy+Tp0nJI6akZQ/s+1yLUXaTcvSdUWrIWl1MSR5 mhdsGee9Nyy5t3NRCyXVyqvkel+PmONR4DEb9ndFhbC6MNCzHcB4g5jf1coahJPAzPM0 xVHQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=u3lpJ0OPGHpVYksJTOLM4QhBKkJpcXCoP+PZvWCxEYE=; b=ZFjH1liyMIywny1nr25l+b0C9KaG9JHbCVHCVt/xGDsRUknqnfiuZt5gM4ShvcBm9K DV//KRVW0ZyFdLOPp2Xe0hdAWJnFhm8trV1gZeXD6oqEFPu+GlKWwBUrfFK6tiLuoXew KC5BBbufxrfRqaqV6UpcQYfrjtI4hb6lA3x21UiiAV+S36jHD3sNC7A2axOglGLKiLo+ lY0NxePyu4OeqBU3ajGqA+Rb5abTU+IrwDOsjX7uMJJmCRoJVmWMYJtpdRe+0D7UTw8x Y4HbOfxE9BjXf368KqJSuiAjL5KGlR0G2y5x4r9ZP99+4lGOqDJYbtJXjA2dvjmpxrzW TEqw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H2SQuGeuzIXpEHJWhLuoNfKn2xNrE4SBoLCOh7tU/ysM6eQRtTscwsGZ5URaTBk3w== X-Received: by 10.28.59.8 with SMTP id i8mr15579215wma.27.1489509784621; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r8sm13858779wrb.33.2017.03.14.09.43.03 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:43:03 -0700 (PDT) To: Alex Galis References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <43AC52AF-124B-4B4C-81B3-38AF5C588E11@ucl.ac.uk> Cc: Pedro Martinez-Julia , Anton Ivanov , "xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Satish K , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:43:00 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <43AC52AF-124B-4B4C-81B3-38AF5C588E11@ucl.ac.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9A989B11B9F0BA6CCA34C9AD" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:43:08 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9A989B11B9F0BA6CCA34C9AD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alex, you have only partially quoted what I said. I said: If the preferred method of delivering Flexible VPN is SDN then that can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. If customers need a flexible, SDN driven, VPN, we should design it. If customers need NS (and they tell us they do) we should design it. If the first turns out to be a subset of the second, then great, but if the first is needed, that need stands in its own right and should not be constrained by the second. - Stewart On 14/03/2017 14:30, Alex Galis wrote: > > Hi Stewart > > I am also concerned with the narrow view the "Flexible VPN is SDN then > that can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed†which > is IMHO not very pactical and at best secondary for NS and the > emerging new IETF work and potential new WG. > > This would be a perfect subject for VPN++ in IETF. Please reconsider > > > Alex > > > >> On 14 Mar 2017, at 13:52, Stewart Bryant > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>> [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all >>> of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] >> >> Pedro >> >> I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN >> and Network >> Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering Flexible VPN is SDN >> then that >> can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. >> >> Stewart >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > --------------9A989B11B9F0BA6CCA34C9AD Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Alex, you have only partially quoted what I said.

I said:

If the preferred method of delivering  Flexible VPN is SDN then that
can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed.

If customers need a flexible, SDN driven, VPN, we should design it.

If customers need NS (and they tell us they do) we should design it.

If the first turns out to be a subset of the second, then great, but if the
first is needed, that need stands in its own right and should not be
constrained by the second.

- Stewart


On 14/03/2017 14:30, Alex Galis wrote:

Hi Stewart 

I am also concerned with the narrow view the "Flexible VPN is SDN then that can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed†which is IMHO not very pactical and at best secondary for NS and the emerging new IETF work and potential new WG. 

This would be a perfect subject for VPN++ in IETF. Please reconsider


Alex

 
 
On 14 Mar 2017, at 13:52, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:



On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:
  [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all
  of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.]

Pedro

I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN and Network
Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering  Flexible VPN is SDN then that
can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed.

Stewart

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


--------------9A989B11B9F0BA6CCA34C9AD-- From nobody Tue Mar 14 09:44:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3AF1297BE for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:44:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cbZMqDg1kBNK for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A35B1297B8 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnpYt-0004ok-Kt; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:44:39 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.11.207]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnpYt-0007vJ-Dt; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:44:39 +0000 To: d.lake@surrey.ac.uk, hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-labs.com, pedro@nict.go.jp References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <810f61bd-2537-f056-544a-35b96ddcb7d8@kot-begemot.co.uk> Cc: xuling3@huawei.com, Xavier.Defoy@interdigital.com, satish.ietf@gmail.com, netslices@ietf.org, Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:44:38 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:44:46 -0000 On 14/03/17 15:58, d.lake@surrey.ac.uk wrote: > Anton > > "That also clearly delineates the whole fronthaul RAN spaghetti out of scope." > > If the RAN is an eCPRI/nFAPI implementation, then the "slice" could be a combination of application (here C-RAN elements) and transport to the RRH (network). As the requirements of application + network are very much determined by the exact MAC/PHY split point (in this particular example), I would say that RAN (to some extent) is in scope! > > The same could also be true for IoT RAN where we want as-little processing as possible on the remote radio head with baseband processing centralised. > > So, maybe we should say that air interface is out-of-scope, but any other element associated with transport is in scope? Somewhere there. We need to find a place where we can clearly draw the line so it fits a logical boundary of some sort. It would have been easier if we had more use-cases. Then we can just draw it as of "up to this use case are in, the rest are out, consider them elsewhere". A. > > Thoughts? > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov > Sent: 14 March 2017 15:49 > To: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) ; Pedro Martinez-Julia > Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Satish K ; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani > Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions > > On 14/03/17 15:40, Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) wrote: >> Hello >> >> This is very relevant discussion what you have here. This boils down to what is a network slice for the IETF. If a transport network slice is just a VPN then there is very little added value what the IETF can provide here. For 3GPP, ETSI, NGMN, TM have richer view on slicing where management and OSS/BSS play a role. > Not quite, see below. > >> >> VPN != slice >> >> Slice == application/service resources + VPN > That has an obvious IETF role, specifically the interworking with datacenter, NVO3, SFC and friends. > > That also clearly delineates the whole fronthaul RAN spaghetti out of scope. > > I like it. In fact, my view is nearly identical. Let's keep it to this exact scope. > > +1 > > A. > >> Best regards >> Hannu >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton >> Ivanov >> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:36 AM >> To: Pedro Martinez-Julia >> Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; >> Satish K ; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani >> >> Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for >> Contributions >> >> On 14/03/17 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 06:31:41AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: >>>> On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that >>>>> here we have another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: >>>>> >>>>> 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into >>>>> several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable >>>>> properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered >>>>> incomplete but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. >>>>> >>>>> 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set >>>>> of VPN resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and >>>>> any change must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the >>>>> high flexibility qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. >>>> Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it stands is >>>> presently deemed sufficient. >>> For the first perspective, the only "complain" would be that VPNs do >>> not have all the functions that are present in the underlying >>> transport, but it is not very decisive. >>> >>> However, for the second perspective, we can think of a quite simple >>> use case that cannot be supplied by current VPN: >>> >>> - There are two VPN providers: A and B. >>> - There is a customer: C. >>> - C contracts VPN1 from provider A and VPN2 from provider B. >>> - Then: >>> + C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W. >>> + C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same >>> transport configuration but one would be disabled. >>> + C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" >>> transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) >>> and by somebody (by whom?). >>> [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all >>> of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] >> Can you elaborate on what do you call "transport configuration". >> >> Otherwise: >> >> "C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W" - >> trivial, multiple ways to do it depending on technology, been there >> since late 90-es >> >> "C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same transport configuration but one would be disabled" - again trivial, we are talking 1990-es material here. >> >> "C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" >> transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) and >> by somebody (by whom?)" - I suspect there is some form of language >> barrier at work here, but you are describing a basic MPLS or VPN >> shared service. That is again 1990-es material. I spent a large chunk >> of my time in 2000 migrating one designed for IP VPNs in 1998-1999 to >> MPLS L3 VPN. That is what? 17 years ago? >> >> I am going to repeat. Please provide a use case. Something that has >> not been solved in 1990es and has not been in the CCNA and (for more >> advanced cases CCIE) conspectus for the last 10 years if possible. >> >> A. >> >> >> >> >> A, >> >>> - C finishes the contracts and goes elsewhere to meet its requirements. >>> >>> Notice that if you change VPN by computer, the functions are >>> achievable without problem with current computing slicing technologies... >>> >>> Regards, >>> Pedro >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >> > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > From nobody Tue Mar 14 09:52:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11DE1297C6 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:52:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GpzBD_HToyki for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x242.google.com (mail-wm0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CE1F129508 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x242.google.com with SMTP id v190so730591wme.3 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:52:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xZ7V2pUMRdxwNAJwoKDp5PULLL8l77vzDdG3cDF0b3Y=; b=mLW9D2l4gpwj/6E2a9xxwXaFLitzxm2mdbaCuBr1RRsVNOGBx2/mPMez9ngD/B2mWc iWTte/ZEYBhWWb68eAlidX+bJg+3bizl4yqNRDwckFupIFpO+SApyZBCABHV1JG6AbiE bLgTDWHwalYubNcPnOzbkZhX9gPlXRanWNcbADarZtLF16RC4A6Mnk+n7KYydwcuhjTh +zcpbIGMZBKO27H9R1rYZ4wG96tw8LHKJwbGbRe1/PTxTNNyqO0YI2kfOZOfwklE1yM1 G/DA8/SN/mZqb0qW7WnfD0JM/JklpG79XjV4Xvf7aU+kS8Bdk9fvJjWtTgaZP6DeXPWv FGrQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xZ7V2pUMRdxwNAJwoKDp5PULLL8l77vzDdG3cDF0b3Y=; b=IzpAFyVSWtwv73We2xKfS3nyYD5gwVzySbFNT56NxtX6bSOj1eHfsxCghkUlNhSx4Z dUIh72CltpEm8R0M8/W2o5595r9zYS7SeEYfqAYiJrHrO4pzF5nW6DfvqoE+lRnRjbZ6 ufv84ZtuLh8CJoUGSySUDbJFzkISKVv8DQI+2VpZu7sejzy8JuMYFhHyAtA24P1oU3md Dc2IV25NroSrxmN1w38mMTTObkUcqTo9ZxwuZML5pqft5uLk2Gc/UrvmWPXI6BEKwBW5 NRamqSLLMUzCDgQ0qJxoam7Mhy9Ufj5jqqsWEM7M2u/NXwh76fq+X9XM62mddOU+jQBi y6uw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1/pnq7AO6FZzb45vEVicECYyQIu7qMAx2GHup0ArvFX3cNI3N3q6scqwdGBJJqpg== X-Received: by 10.28.8.147 with SMTP id 141mr16334135wmi.43.1489510329849; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u184sm483059wmb.29.2017.03.14.09.52.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:52:09 -0700 (PDT) To: "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" , Anton Ivanov , Pedro Martinez-Julia References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> Cc: "xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Satish K , "netslices@ietf.org" , "Kiran.Makhijani" From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: <19509955-357d-499a-6c4a-4dcda3d2bb84@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:52:05 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:52:14 -0000 On 14/03/2017 15:40, Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) wrote: > Hello > > This is very relevant discussion what you have here. This boils down to what is a network slice for the IETF. If a transport network slice is just a VPN then there is very little added value what the IETF can provide here. For 3GPP, ETSI, NGMN, TM have richer view on slicing where management and OSS/BSS play a role. > > VPN != slice > > Slice == application/service resources + VPN Close, it is application/service resources + a VPN with enhanced features. Stewart > Best regards > Hannu > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:36 AM > To: Pedro Martinez-Julia > Cc: xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Satish K ; netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani > Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions > > On 14/03/17 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 06:31:41AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: >>> On 14/03/17 05:28, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Please excuse my intermission in this thread but I must add that here we >>>> have another example of the two main viewpoints of network slicing: >>>> >>>> 1) From-provider-to-consumer: The transport network is sliced into >>>> several smaller VPNs. In principle, VPN can facilitate comparable >>>> properties to its underlying network so VPN can be considered incomplete >>>> but valid as a method for slicing a transport network. >>>> >>>> 2) From-consumer-to-provider: The consumer does not receive a set of VPN >>>> resources to build its own VPN. It gets the VPN "as is" and any change >>>> must be requested to the provider. This view lacks the high flexibility >>>> qualities that we are assigning to network slicing. >>> Use case please. Without one, current VPN technology as it stands is >>> presently deemed sufficient. >> For the first perspective, the only "complain" would be that VPNs do not >> have all the functions that are present in the underlying transport, but >> it is not very decisive. >> >> However, for the second perspective, we can think of a quite simple use >> case that cannot be supplied by current VPN: >> >> - There are two VPN providers: A and B. >> - There is a customer: C. >> - C contracts VPN1 from provider A and VPN2 from provider B. >> - Then: >> + C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W. >> + C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same >> transport configuration but one would be disabled. >> + C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" >> transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) >> and by somebody (by whom?). >> [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all >> of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] > Can you elaborate on what do you call "transport configuration". > > Otherwise: > > "C wants to merge VPN1 and VPN2 into a bigger VPN with more B/W" - trivial, multiple ways to do it depending on technology, been there since late 90-es > > "C wants to make VPN2 a backup of VPN1, so they would have the same transport configuration but one would be disabled" - again trivial, we are talking 1990-es material here. > > "C wants to chain VPN1 and VPN2, so they would have "compatible" > transport configuration and should be connected somewhere (where?) and > by somebody (by whom?)" - I suspect there is some form of language > barrier at work here, but you are describing a basic MPLS or VPN shared > service. That is again 1990-es material. I spent a large chunk of my > time in 2000 migrating one designed for IP VPNs in 1998-1999 to MPLS L3 > VPN. That is what? 17 years ago? > > I am going to repeat. Please provide a use case. Something that has not > been solved in 1990es and has not been in the CCNA and (for more > advanced cases CCIE) conspectus for the last 10 years if possible. > > A. > > > > > A, > >> - C finishes the contracts and goes elsewhere to meet its requirements. >> >> Notice that if you change VPN by computer, the functions are achievable >> without problem with current computing slicing technologies... >> >> Regards, >> Pedro >> > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Tue Mar 14 09:58:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62403132960 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:58:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kDzLhVFp5WKX for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x243.google.com (mail-wm0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01A8B13296A for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x243.google.com with SMTP id v190so756788wme.3 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:58:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qKfL2v3pwWxLdhMN9M5Vqj0zr7NzwvBfHIo5+//W2cM=; b=EpigBLiB1HCDRxsK5EqxUOptzNA2MKwq3CuTCz4KD0IeDGRpydpSzYt1xDTMmKOg73 L67n+Kzicbd4MKNCaH17nNM5Wupry2Rd3c9Ao9qJ9pgi+bi2EVndnRt8iesEhBCGUhLZ JMRrzZdOkRNlUttm+JbW+OIMTz/X0cCxEpkqxRB7/zKcc3H4A0jtNpIDKAq1uCfSLmnS BtXAK9F264thZF18oScezUUwEHjBHVdr9nSrj2wRAyZ9YfXldJL+12jtBzBbsrH/SiPA K2UQyN0seBAFkH7slVOZ9IPtZ9C/rC9UEcTFIJIIziC6/OHjLoeoz387A4uiZm+QUvuD nPEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qKfL2v3pwWxLdhMN9M5Vqj0zr7NzwvBfHIo5+//W2cM=; b=ISrac7m7fHv9VNrdtn10SmxGmZHELRGcm4cLgkNXFV01d1PfjWr0C72Xkbu4hTntn+ KpWE3iuswz8w+eERO5YGYhqsXd7QGkveoVyzxaqUOLbel6R01/h1AKqsHqiGea7gbXGU VGeBW1kyqoXNYZXSiuGZ6UETEt6SD/m8A3Q3X3Gt7cwme4cmeLQC9YGaBp8cKi5Tqc99 RM013W30WRS9PwqoZUuy6ulA/OCmFsLcMS0SYmwJbfDA9B2eG3yUEZ90ODiZylgTMrKi JdWO2VaDLZXS/91KzAEJAGcfyxZlgOF8Rv76c8HIHMfiKiAygKofudx3Et0pVEp63QqW nlwA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1YoutfttifcBXckRwUzzbmOluqOA2ZHapbwYOJZSE3wfga3oTE1zPND4tzGh9Jcw== X-Received: by 10.28.46.213 with SMTP id u204mr637576wmu.136.1489510699554; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l45sm29817929wrc.14.2017.03.14.09.58.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:58:18 -0700 (PDT) To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, "'Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)'" , 'Anton Ivanov' , 'Pedro Martinez-Julia' References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <04c001d29cda$fb327fc0$f1977f40$@olddog.co.uk> Cc: "'xuling (F)'" , "'Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com'" , 'Satish K' , netslices@ietf.org, "'Kiran.Makhijani'" From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:58:15 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <04c001d29cda$fb327fc0$f1977f40$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:58:23 -0000 On 14/03/2017 15:52, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Thanks Hannu, > > This is the clearest and simplest statement I've seen on what a slice is. > > Perhaps I am struggling because I need to see things in their simplest form :-) > >> Slice == application/service resources + VPN > But, of course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a little. > What is an "application resource"? > I take it to mean that it is a network resource that has been assigned for the > sole control/use by a specific application. > If so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical resource and > a virtual resource so long as the capability of the resource is guaranteed? > > And, indeed, what is a resource? Assuming we move all the latency and b/w consideration to the VPN component It is the compute and storage resources needed for - On path NFV functions - Topology management, which includes routing, but these days is more - OAM and telementry and monitoring - Configuration management - Interface to the slicing system. - Stewart > > Thanks, > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Tue Mar 14 10:32:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA971329E9 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:28:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=realsdn.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PUyBL4IUom2X for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:28:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ajmclachlan.com (pigmail.ajmclachlan.com [78.31.107.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14CCE1329CC for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:28:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=realsdn.org; s=default; t=1489512497; bh=hbpT8eka0KsIHMqsY7dBbhs6xSjzI7ms4Ai+Y+SSaRw=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=mZQfkNILeE4gfesabkDV4ch59GT3aYHIzaYzKIQkpOCNLMmZqBW5cEh7LNWkJoCdT sZHDqxJM1Ik/OQpWXX2c7IRiGTGlVaC1HhhigMuDDdMxm61GdcV3oM1cVKU3z+ikXO urjed1vbWDYv4g9tJ7ceXAPwhXclmEWvRIXkcqdE= X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)); From: Andrew McLachlan Message-Id: <1DE5FCB1-41EA-4756-82C8-EED607368902@realsdn.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F439865F-6F95-40D6-9590-803051A3422D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:28:06 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: Adrian Farrel , "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" , Anton Ivanov , Pedro Martinez-Julia , "xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Satish K , netslices@ietf.org, "Kiran.Makhijani" To: Stewart Bryant References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <04c001d29cda$fb327fc0$f1977f40$@olddog.co.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-Encryption: SSL encrypted Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:32:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:28:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F439865F-6F95-40D6-9590-803051A3422D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hey Stewart Comments inline > On 14 Mar 2017, at 16:58, Stewart Bryant = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 14/03/2017 15:52, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Thanks Hannu, >>=20 >> This is the clearest and simplest statement I've seen on what a slice = is. >>=20 >> Perhaps I am struggling because I need to see things in their = simplest form :-) >>=20 >>> Slice =3D=3D application/service resources + VPN >> But, of course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a = little. >> What is an "application resource"? >> I take it to mean that it is a network resource that has been = assigned for the >> sole control/use by a specific application. >> If so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical = resource and >> a virtual resource so long as the capability of the resource is = guaranteed? >>=20 >> And, indeed, what is a resource? >=20 > Assuming we move all the latency and b/w consideration to the VPN = component These would be hop by hop characteristics, which I believe we would = control / model for any services in orchestration, since they are both = device dependant and also infrastructure dependent. >=20 > It is the compute and storage resources needed for >=20 > - On path NFV functions > - Topology management, which includes routing, but these days is more The =E2=80=98more' bit - much of the data we would need to implement = predictable paths/slices will be historical and also non-network = related, for example the public utility outages info and so on, and not = in the characteristic of an IGP/BGP. Before anyone starts saying hurrah = there is a use-case, it is not one. There is zero reason to carry around = in BGP/IGP this type of info since it comes from high layers and needs = to be consumed by them. The network is just a tool in this chain, and = not a source of truth in this instance. > - OAM and telementry and monitoring As we begin the move to streaming telemetry this is getting taken care = of in there, and also by exiting OAMs, including those at the = application level which are outside the network and again at the higher = layer reporting direct to the application controllers.=20 > - Configuration management Orchestration=20 > - Interface to the slicing system. As proved by countless attempts to simply the interface to the = network/devices we have actually added to the number of interface = protocols, BGP-LS PCEP NETConf OVSDB and so on=E2=80=A6. we really = don=E2=80=99t need another ;) >=20 > - Stewart >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Adrian >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices = >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices = --Apple-Mail=_F439865F-6F95-40D6-9590-803051A3422D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hey Stewart

Comments inline


On 14 Mar 2017, at 16:58, = Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:



On 14/03/2017 15:52, Adrian Farrel = wrote:
Thanks Hannu,

This is the clearest and simplest statement = I've seen on what a slice is.

Perhaps I am = struggling because I need to see things in their simplest form :-)

Slice =3D=3D= application/service resources + VPN
But, of = course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a little.
What is an "application resource"?
I take it to = mean that it is a network resource that has been assigned for the
sole control/use by a specific application.
If = so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical resource = and
a virtual resource so long as the capability of the = resource is guaranteed?

And, indeed, what = is a resource?

Assuming we move all the latency and b/w = consideration to the VPN component

These = would be hop by hop characteristics, which I believe we would control / = model for any services in orchestration, since they are both device = dependant and also infrastructure dependent.


It is the compute = and storage resources needed for

- On path NFV functions
- Topology = management, which includes routing, but these days is more

The =E2=80=98more' bit -  much of the data we = would need to implement predictable paths/slices will be historical and = also non-network related, for example the public utility outages info = and so on, and not in the characteristic of an IGP/BGP.  Before = anyone starts saying hurrah there is a use-case, it is not one. There is = zero reason to carry around in BGP/IGP this type of info since it comes = from high layers and needs to be consumed by them. The network is just a = tool in this chain, and not a source of truth in this instance.

- OAM and telementry and monitoring

As we begin the move to streaming telemetry this = is getting taken care of in there, and also by exiting OAMs, including = those at the application level which are outside the network and again = at the higher layer reporting direct to the application = controllers. 

- Configuration = management

Orchestration 

- Interface to the = slicing system.

As proved = by countless attempts to simply the interface to the network/devices we = have actually added to the number of interface protocols, BGP-LS PCEP = NETConf OVSDB and so on=E2=80=A6. we really don=E2=80=99t need another = ;)


- Stewart



Thanks,
Adrian

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing = list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

= --Apple-Mail=_F439865F-6F95-40D6-9590-803051A3422D-- From nobody Tue Mar 14 10:42:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 989BD12984A for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:42:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=realsdn.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zGR8I2c0OpaS for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ajmclachlan.com (pigmail.ajmclachlan.com [78.31.107.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EA8B1295A0 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=realsdn.org; s=default; t=1489513350; bh=vSvKQmIBGYpkQ5KKXeBiCkRIAv0IyXIDchAEzD6suUk=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To; b=hDk2TxuFQ5Hw8RVcYIqZG3h6vo40eeAOGUhXxe47hiYV5OxlpFIZZfv7Y+El0ujDw uCI3gYXlsC9hHTQ1zNob0PfglgiNAfmuvlkmreU7icktqlCGHVdXWZ9WR2aoYlv0nS Z+llLX79Fiu7r2LTpOGS1PBg+vxAUsTJsYy1FAw0= X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)); From: Andrew McLachlan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FF14D89F-4B1C-4103-A3BD-951A831A1248" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:42:27 +0000 References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <04c001d29cda$fb327fc0$f1977f40$@olddog.co.uk> To: Network Slices In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <87616674-F7DB-4D8B-9367-45DC5BD7CA41@realsdn.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-Encryption: SSL encrypted Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:42:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FF14D89F-4B1C-4103-A3BD-951A831A1248 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hey Stewart Comments inline > On 14 Mar 2017, at 16:58, Stewart Bryant > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 14/03/2017 15:52, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Thanks Hannu, >>=20 >> This is the clearest and simplest statement I've seen on what a slice = is. >>=20 >> Perhaps I am struggling because I need to see things in their = simplest form :-) >>=20 >>> Slice =3D=3D application/service resources + VPN >> But, of course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a = little. >> What is an "application resource"? >> I take it to mean that it is a network resource that has been = assigned for the >> sole control/use by a specific application. >> If so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical = resource and >> a virtual resource so long as the capability of the resource is = guaranteed? >>=20 >> And, indeed, what is a resource? >=20 > Assuming we move all the latency and b/w consideration to the VPN = component These would be hop by hop characteristics, which I believe we would = control / model for any services in orchestration, since they are both = device dependant and also infrastructure dependent. >=20 > It is the compute and storage resources needed for >=20 > - On path NFV functions > - Topology management, which includes routing, but these days is more The =E2=80=98more' bit - much of the data we would need to implement = predictable paths/slices will be historical and also non-network = related, for example the public utility outages info and so on, and not = in the characteristic of an IGP/BGP. Before anyone starts saying hurrah = there is a use-case, it is not one. There is zero reason to carry around = in BGP/IGP this type of info since it comes from high layers and needs = to be consumed by them. The network is just a tool in this chain, and = not a source of truth in this instance. > - OAM and telementry and monitoring As we begin the move to streaming telemetry this is getting taken care = of in there, and also by exiting OAMs, including those at the = application level which are outside the network and again at the higher = layer reporting direct to the application controllers.=20 > - Configuration management Orchestration=20 > - Interface to the slicing system. As proved by countless attempts to simply the interface to the = network/devices we have actually added to the number of interface = protocols, BGP-LS PCEP NETConf OVSDB and so on=E2=80=A6. we really = don=E2=80=99t need another ;) >=20 > - Stewart >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Adrian >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices = >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices = = --Apple-Mail=_FF14D89F-4B1C-4103-A3BD-951A831A1248 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hey Stewart

Comments inline


On 14 = Mar 2017, at 16:58, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:



On 14/03/2017 15:52, Adrian Farrel wrote:
Thanks Hannu,

This is the clearest and simplest statement I've seen on what = a slice is.

Perhaps I am struggling because = I need to see things in their simplest form :-)

Slice =3D=3D = application/service resources + VPN
But, of = course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a little.
What is an "application resource"?
I take it to = mean that it is a network resource that has been assigned for the
sole control/use by a specific application.
If = so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical resource = and
a virtual resource so long as the capability of the = resource is guaranteed?

And, indeed, what = is a resource?

Assuming we move all the = latency and b/w consideration to the VPN component

These would be hop by hop = characteristics, which I believe we would control / model for any = services in orchestration, since they are both device dependant and also = infrastructure dependent.


It is the compute and storage resources needed = for

- On path NFV = functions
- Topology management, which includes routing, but these = days is more

The =E2=80=98more' bit -  much of the data we would need = to implement predictable paths/slices will be historical and also = non-network related, for example the public utility outages info and so = on, and not in the characteristic of an IGP/BGP.  Before anyone = starts saying hurrah there is a use-case, it is not one. There is zero = reason to carry around in BGP/IGP this type of info since it comes from = high layers and needs to be consumed by them. The network is just a tool = in this chain, and not a source of truth in this instance.

- OAM and telementry and monitoring

As we begin the move to streaming = telemetry this is getting taken care of in there, and also by exiting = OAMs, including those at the application level which are outside the = network and again at the higher layer reporting direct to the = application controllers. 

- Configuration management

Orchestration 

- Interface to the slicing system.

As proved by countless attempts to = simply the interface to the network/devices we have actually added to = the number of interface protocols, BGP-LS PCEP NETConf OVSDB and so = on=E2=80=A6. we really don=E2=80=99t need another ;)


- Stewart



Thanks,
Adrian

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
= --Apple-Mail=_FF14D89F-4B1C-4103-A3BD-951A831A1248-- From nobody Tue Mar 14 10:56:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C696128B50 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:56:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NEcxMlCORVw3 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2729E128B42 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnqgf-0004qf-Lj for netslices@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:56:45 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.11.207]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cnqgf-0000M5-DQ for netslices@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:56:45 +0000 To: netslices@ietf.org References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <04c001d29cda$fb327fc0$f1977f40$@olddog.co.uk> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <2e89f420-25ce-cd31-65b9-cb9cc8dc10de@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:56:45 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:56:49 -0000 On 14/03/17 16:58, Stewart Bryant wrote: > > > On 14/03/2017 15:52, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Thanks Hannu, >> >> This is the clearest and simplest statement I've seen on what a slice >> is. >> >> Perhaps I am struggling because I need to see things in their >> simplest form :-) >> >>> Slice == application/service resources + VPN >> But, of course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a >> little. >> What is an "application resource"? >> I take it to mean that it is a network resource that has been >> assigned for the >> sole control/use by a specific application. >> If so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical >> resource and >> a virtual resource so long as the capability of the resource is >> guaranteed? >> >> And, indeed, what is a resource? > > Assuming we move all the latency and b/w consideration to the VPN > component > Most of that is out of scope. As Andrew noted it is either orchestration, model or something else. What is clearly in-scope and not covered is the boundary and the inter-relationship between the VPN component of a slice and a datacenter overlay +/- SFC. That also has "other civilian applications" besides the obvious use case for virtualized mobile core. A. > It is the compute and storage resources needed for > > - On path NFV functions > - Topology management, which includes routing, but these days is more > - OAM and telementry and monitoring > - Configuration management > - Interface to the slicing system. > > - Stewart > > >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > From nobody Tue Mar 14 11:08:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ACC6127094 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mjMiFUj47FK8 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com (mail-wm0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFF1E12EA64 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id v186so70457136wmd.0 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:07:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q/6UJ5p0QZQId0fkfL3fWwN7HpXjV6H9hg77tmTAgIM=; b=sJQM7167jTPiDt6Nb3vz3uERKzyuG3Gu0V5s/+I+6JfJGtlqntKFRr6gw9KPld1XqB PbLf+blI2KGz0tRIdOBHzBTlws51cNFcVbk9Ngx2SY8/bODxx96x7FEy4gdsMHl4z6sD 3L2Ou0MDfDIcU9p7x12tGQmxRQf1odJWR5Ro+n+Q4FdrLRGubCiSMY4bWpmeABn5hrIg NGfgJY5WiWZuIXNG9j/JgcyDND3AdhLfYNxe62YQxyX7iO21d/lmjZYdHHHgn4ZCrtvW N+PmDDvOAmxFwXKF/QEpzkjPqMtpCc7oVKHzflrfSaeNCuAVypvaJjEmTzPty+jgg3ZE ZfGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q/6UJ5p0QZQId0fkfL3fWwN7HpXjV6H9hg77tmTAgIM=; b=CJgjT3GczIdnc2NgtMgGOyv+sLZ/3ruAxh13trEK+9IsxmmM8UHNncelEUyUWrfSwF eqZsJ/G5TGQVUI/xJvvwhxC9cJAhFE2PyZuWKznxQFxREUtqnSHVqO2vePDeeur3IURB 2hEqZ1o6JC8FiriF1lCOVz9/6cX7X9Ulk/sEweo1BPOkaesG9R92oTugetu3/uXwzGSr 7NofQgihD0qNgUkUd3gIJ94QAzqbr/pRL3ukGnyQmI3DsLtZVg80m3B83wdAlvVPs5DL cryJLAGfANYYLgqEpEIZFqO+V9Gu7DXr1ty80CFu0+dQ8n0EGfNoc/4cm1Nwfs6WZJLX N8lg== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1FtCyeYX/rheydq0ijU29e4QZne6d5C9siWJ/QGYGXQOxtYYf+Nf8+GpasgIZGsw== X-Received: by 10.28.154.7 with SMTP id c7mr954603wme.119.1489514875286; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b10sm16325617wmi.34.2017.03.14.11.07.54 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:07:54 -0700 (PDT) To: Network Slices From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: <109f2760-10a9-8f87-df82-ac7b37efdb64@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 18:07:51 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] test - please ignore X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 18:08:00 -0000 Checking the list is working properly. Stewart From nobody Tue Mar 14 15:34:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A70A1315D7 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:30:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4rc8kqq0jBwU for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur01on0114.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.1.114]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B52381315CE for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 22:30:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5CF8F36F-9B1E-4787-9F11-0A79C4EAEC30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Stewart It looks that you are using a narrow view of what NS is (i.e. only a = partition of network resources) which was the initial view 10 years ago. Comments on line.=20 > On 14 Mar 2017, at 16:43, Stewart Bryant = wrote: >=20 > Alex, you have only partially quoted what I said. >=20 > I said: > If the preferred method of delivering Flexible VPN is SDN then that > can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. [Alex] Delivering Flexible VPN ( I.e. partitions of networking = resources) via SDN or any other means is an old problem area. I am not = sure what =E2=80=98new problems=E2=80=99 you are planning to solve. >=20 > If customers need a flexible, SDN driven, VPN, we should design it. [Alex] If Operators are in need of " flexible, SDN driven, VPN=E2=80=9D = then such problem is perfect for other WGs in IETF . It does not fit = very well within the scope of the work related to Net Slices. >=20 > If customers need NS (and they tell us they do) we should design it. [Alex] if Operators are in need of NS [ i.e. I) partitions of = networking, computation, storage resources ( i.e. of the data plane) + = II) partitions of Net Functions ( of the Control and Management planes) = ] then NS will happened and it is already happening. This is the work which fits perfectly with the Network Slicing group. >=20 > If the first turns out to be a subset of the second, [Alex] it is obvious that the first area of work is related to the = second however it is not necessarily a subset as partitioning the = networking resources can be achieve through many means. > then great, but if the=20 > first is needed, that need stands in its own right and should not be > constrained by the second. [Alex] The above NS described as I) +II) need to be integrally = created/operated/deactivated. This means the I) is not performed before = II) and II) is not performed before I). I hope that the above would be of use to you Best Regards Alex >=20 > - Stewart >=20 >=20 > On 14/03/2017 14:30, Alex Galis wrote: >> Hi Stewart=20 >> I am also concerned with the narrow view the "Flexible VPN is SDN = then that can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed=E2=80= =9D which is IMHO not very practical and at best secondary for NS and = the emerging new IETF work and potential new WG.=20 >> This would be a perfect subject for VPN++ in IETF. Please reconsider >>=20 >> Alex >>=20 >> =20 >> =20 >>> On 14 Mar 2017, at 13:52, Stewart Bryant > wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>>> [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), = all >>>> of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.] >>>=20 >>> Pedro >>>=20 >>> I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN = and Network >>> Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering Flexible VPN is SDN = then that >>> can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. >>>=20 >>> Stewart >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netslices mailing list >>> Netslices@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices = >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_5CF8F36F-9B1E-4787-9F11-0A79C4EAEC30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Hi Stewart

It looks that you are using a narrow view of what NS is (i.e. = only a partition of network resources) which was the initial view 10 = years ago.

Comments on line. 

On = 14 Mar 2017, at 16:43, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:

=20

Alex,= you have only partially quoted what I said.

I said:

If the preferred method of delivering  Flexible VPN is SDN then = that
can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed.


[Alex] Delivering Flexible VPN ( I.e. partitions of = networking resources) via SDN or any other means is an old problem area. = I am not sure what =E2=80=98new problems=E2=80=99  you are planning = to solve.



If customers need a flexible, SDN driven, VPN, we should design = it.


[Alex] If Operators are in = need of " flexible, SDN driven, VPN=E2=80=9D  then such problem is = perfect for other WGs in IETF .  It  does not fit very well = within the scope of the work related to Net Slices.


If customers need NS (and they tell us they do) we should design = it.


[Alex] if Operators are in = need of NS [ i.e. I)  partitions of networking, computation, = storage resources ( i.e. of the data plane) + II) partitions of Net = Functions ( of the Control and Management planes) ]  then NS will = happened and it is already happening.

This is the work which fits perfectly with the = Network Slicing group.


If the first turns out to be a subset of the second, =


[Alex] it is obvious  that the first area of work = is related to the second however it is not necessarily a subset as = partitioning the networking resources can be achieve through many = means.

then = great, but if the
first is needed, that need stands in its own right and should not = be
constrained by the second.


[Alex] The above NS described as I) +II)  need to = be integrally created/operated/deactivated. This means the I) is not = performed before II) and II) is not performed before I).


I hope that the above = would be of use to you

Best = Regards
Alex

- Stewart


On 14/03/2017 14:30, Alex Galis = wrote:
=20
=20
=20

Hi Stewart 

I am also concerned with the narrow view the "Flexible VPN is SDN then that can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed=E2=80=9D which is IMHO not very = practical and at best secondary for NS and the emerging new IETF work and potential new = WG. 

This would be a perfect subject for VPN++ in IETF. Please reconsider


Alex

 
 
On 14 Mar 2017, at 13:52, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:



On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:
=   [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all
  of these requirements, and much more, = would be supported.]

Pedro

I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN and Network
Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering  Flexible VPN is SDN then that
can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed.

Stewart

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= --Apple-Mail=_5CF8F36F-9B1E-4787-9F11-0A79C4EAEC30-- From nobody Tue Mar 14 18:32:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24D3129404 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 18:32:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZFRSuT6Sh1MV for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 18:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.nict.go.jp (ns2.nict.go.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:232:300::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB14F12944C for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 18:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw2.nict.go.jp (gw2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.251]) by ns2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2F1W0vC044445; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:32:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail2.nict.go.jp (mail2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.15]) by gw2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2F1W0u5044413; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:32:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from spectre (unknown [133.243.115.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail Spool Server2) with ESMTPS id 1335CABD3; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:32:00 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:32:04 +0900 From: Pedro Martinez-Julia To: Andrew McLachlan Cc: Adrian Farrel , Stewart Bryant , Anton Ivanov , "xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Satish K , netslices@ietf.org, "Kiran.Makhijani" Message-ID: <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.1 (2016-10-04) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at zenith2 X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:32:09 -0000 Dear Andrew, Adrian, and others, My intermission was only to discuss my thoughts on using VPN as a mean for slicing transport networks. Please, do not extrapolate the lack of new requirements in very specific use cases, which are actually asking for VPNs. Retaking the question on "network slicing" (without being specifically linked to transport network or VPNs), we have a set of requirements that are not met today. From my point of view, they are: - Enhanced infrastructure flexibility: Both underlying and overlying network elements can be added, removed, scaled up/down, re/connected, re/configured, etc. in terms of seconds/milliseconds instead of hours or minutes. - Resource plasticity: Flexibility is also taken to the atomic level, so the view of resources as fixed elements (e.g. a link between A and B with properties P_x) gives pass to a "plastic element" that can change its shape dynamically and promptly in response to stimuli coming from different sources: consumer requirements specified through a standard and simple interface (current interfaces are not good for such task), changes in the working environment (events) or the workload, etc. - Composability: Regardless of their provider, or even specific nature, network resources (and services) would be able to be easily composed to build "composite/composed resources/services" that somehow inherit the capabilities/qualities of the original resources, getting enhanced reliability by favoring reusability, among other benefits. This would be like a crosswise SFC. A crazy example would be like: - I want to account, log, and share (e.g. to my colleagues or peers of my favorite social network) the temperature that is around me at any moment. - I request, probably to different infrastructure providers, a link between my mobile phone and my home manager, a caching service, an authorization service, a router, a temperature sensor for the room where I am now, and a WiFi AP. - I somehow build a composite service by lengthwise (SFC) and crosswise integration of those elements, and publish it. - I then move to other location, which is detected by my mobile phone and triggers an update of the service by changing some parameters of the elements that compose it (changing the location of the WiFi AP and sensor, the endpoints of the link, etc.). - I decide to open the access to more levels of my social network, so the authorization service gets updated but the service also receives much more requests and thus increases its workload. The appropriate parameters are tuned to overcome this: link B/W, cache location and/or replication, etc. This is just part of an scenario envisioned to exploit the main benefits of network slicing (denoted by the required flexibility), also including virtualization, network service migration, merging computing and network services together, etc. I hope this adds some valuable points to justify the actual need for a reference architecture for network slicing... Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martinez-Julia Network Science and Convergence Device Technology Laboratory Network System Research Institute National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan Email: pedro@nict.go.jp --------------------------------------------------------- *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** From nobody Tue Mar 14 20:30:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F08D129AEA for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 20:30:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(1601125254)(1603101448)(1701031045); SRVR:SG2APC01HT098; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015087)(444000031); SRVR:SG2APC01HT098; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:SG2APC01HT098; x-forefront-prvs: 02475B2A01 spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_KL1PR06MB11264475C7431B145FB69D5D87270KL1PR06MB1126apcp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Mar 2017 03:55:42.3853 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SG2APC01HT098 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2017 03:55:56.0647 (UTC) FILETIME=[0CDD6770:01D29D40] Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Draft on Network Slicing Architecture X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 03:55:59 -0000 --_000_KL1PR06MB11264475C7431B145FB69D5D87270KL1PR06MB1126apcp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, We have submitted a draft on the architechture of Network Slicing. You can = find the draft from the following link. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geng-netslices-architecture/ This draft briefly describes a systemetic top-level view of Network Slicing= and defines some basic roles in the architechture. We also identifies some= key technical issues that Network slicing should possibly address as the w= ork progress. We are planning to present this document in Chicago. Comments are extremely= welcome. Best wishes Liang ________________________________ Liang GENG China Mobile Research Institute --_000_KL1PR06MB11264475C7431B145FB69D5D87270KL1PR06MB1126apcp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <58E1948C7A5CD44CBDE05AD5FF2D4D3B@apcprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

We have submitted a draft on the architechture of Network Slicing. You= can find the draft from the following link.


This draft briefly describes a systemetic top-level view of Network Sl= icing and defines some basic roles in the architechture. We also identifies= some key technical issues that Network slicing should possibly address as = the work progress.

We are planning to present this document in Chicago. Comments are extr= emely welcome. 

Best wishes
Liang

Liang GENG
China Mobile Research Institute
--_000_KL1PR06MB11264475C7431B145FB69D5D87270KL1PR06MB1126apcp_-- From nobody Wed Mar 15 00:16:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91E5129699 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 00:16:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q51jGvtTCrl5 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 00:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E4C912969C for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 00:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1co3AO-0005Pe-Ae; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:16:16 +0000 Received: from wyvern.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.72]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1co3AO-0000aC-2q; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:16:16 +0000 To: Pedro Martinez-Julia , Andrew McLachlan References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> Cc: Adrian Farrel , Stewart Bryant , "xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , Satish K , netslices@ietf.org, "Kiran.Makhijani" From: Anton Ivanov X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:16:15 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:16:26 -0000 On 15/03/17 01:32, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > Dear Andrew, Adrian, and others, > > My intermission was only to discuss my thoughts on using VPN as a mean > for slicing transport networks. Please, do not extrapolate the lack of > new requirements in very specific use cases, which are actually asking > for VPNs. > > Retaking the question on "network slicing" (without being specifically > linked to transport network or VPNs), we have a set of requirements that > are not met today. From my point of view, they are: > > - Enhanced infrastructure flexibility: Both underlying and overlying > network elements can be added, removed, scaled up/down, re/connected, > re/configured, etc. in terms of seconds/milliseconds instead of hours > or minutes. That is orchestration, does not need a protocol - not IETF subject. > > - Resource plasticity: Flexibility is also taken to the atomic level, so > the view of resources as fixed elements (e.g. a link between A and B > with properties P_x) gives pass to a "plastic element" that can change > its shape dynamically and promptly in response to stimuli coming from > different sources: consumer requirements specified through a standard > and simple interface (current interfaces are not good for such task), > changes in the working environment (events) or the workload, etc. That just broke the buzzword metering component in my brain. I am sorry it is not very plastic and it needs a good signal-to-noise ratio to work with. In any case - if you want to change any of the resources attached dynamically, that is once again an orchestration problem. The most we can do here is define some models and get the whole thing aligned correctly with i2rs and netmod so that orchestration has the appropriate material to work with. > > - Composability: Regardless of their provider, or even specific nature, > network resources (and services) would be able to be easily composed > to build "composite/composed resources/services" that somehow inherit > the capabilities/qualities of the original resources, getting enhanced > reliability by favoring reusability, among other benefits. This would > be like a crosswise SFC. Orchestration. > > A crazy example would be like: > - I want to account, log, and share (e.g. to my colleagues or peers of > my favorite social network) the temperature that is around me at any > moment. > - I request, probably to different infrastructure providers, a link > between my mobile phone and my home manager, a caching service, an > authorization service, a router, a temperature sensor for the room > where I am now, and a WiFi AP. > - I somehow build a composite service by lengthwise (SFC) and crosswise > integration of those elements, and publish it. > - I then move to other location, which is detected by my mobile phone > and triggers an update of the service by changing some parameters of > the elements that compose it (changing the location of the WiFi AP and > sensor, the endpoints of the link, etc.). > - I decide to open the access to more levels of my social network, so > the authorization service gets updated but the service also receives > much more requests and thus increases its workload. The appropriate > parameters are tuned to overcome this: link B/W, cache location and/or > replication, etc. What you are describing is an interaction of a network slice with on-premises network. We cannot realistically cover any and every crazy idea in this area. There needs to be some narrowing down of the scope in order for this to result in viable standards. If suspect there may be a use case to look into a boundary interaction between a homenet and a VPN from a slice perspective and that can join the queue of issues to be looked at. Similarly, a boundary of 6LoPaN and the VPN under slice control We cannot realistically cover any OTHER use cases because they lack the definition to work with. Just to be clear, we cannot "appropriate" control of the leaf if it is already subject to what homenet, 6lopan, etc are working on. We can only work up to and including the boundary. Once again, a lot of this smells like model definitions and a weird case of non-i2rs topology import (or maybe expand i2rs? dunno...). A, > > This is just part of an scenario envisioned to exploit the main benefits > of network slicing (denoted by the required flexibility), also including > virtualization, network service migration, merging computing and network > services together, etc. > > I hope this adds some valuable points to justify the actual need for a > reference architecture for network slicing... > > Regards, > Pedro > From nobody Wed Mar 15 01:05:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F411297BE for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:05:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LvYeBUiPbLA0 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 387DF1297C4 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DCV07867; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:04:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:03:48 +0000 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.160]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 16:03:43 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "'Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)'" , "'Anton Ivanov'" , "'Pedro Martinez-Julia'" CC: "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions Thread-Index: AQHSlplqJvLM9AuE+Eua2TwEsEBqwqGTxmtZ//+N0QCAABG9gIAADygAgAAC7oCAAIccAIAAA3SAgAGQ6bA= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:03:42 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935BEDEE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <04c001d29cda$fb327fc0$f1977f40$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <04c001d29cda$fb327fc0$f1977f40$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.151.75] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.58C8F5AC.0001, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.160, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: b71d83ed3ccdfcdcfa009f1f2372f63c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:05:05 -0000 Hi Adrian, Hannu,=20 I also find that the discussion starting from the simplest statement useful= , as once we agreed on the simplest definition, we can expand each word to = have more detailed discussion. My question is does the application/service resource also include the netwo= rk resource which the VPN would be built upon? Or it just means the service= s and functions based on compute and storage?=20 Best regards, Jie > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian F= arrel > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:52 PM > To: 'Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)' = ; 'Anton > Ivanov' ; 'Pedro Martinez-Julia' > > Cc: xuling (F) ; 'Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com' > ; 'Satish K' ; > netslices@ietf.org; Kiran.Makhijani > Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contri= butions >=20 > Thanks Hannu, >=20 > This is the clearest and simplest statement I've seen on what a slice is. >=20 > Perhaps I am struggling because I need to see things in their simplest fo= rm :-) >=20 > > Slice =3D=3D application/service resources + VPN >=20 > But, of course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a little. > What is an "application resource"? > I take it to mean that it is a network resource that has been assigned fo= r the sole > control/use by a specific application. > If so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical resour= ce and a > virtual resource so long as the capability of the resource is guaranteed? >=20 > And, indeed, what is a resource? >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Wed Mar 15 01:18:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC2B129881 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:18:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id stMWQWC1_fcX for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0AE612987B for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DCV10359; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:18:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:18:37 +0000 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.160]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 16:18:33 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Anton Ivanov , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions Thread-Index: AQHSlplqJvLM9AuE+Eua2TwEsEBqwqGTxmtZ//+N0QCAABG9gIAADygAgAAC7oCAAIccAIAAA3SAgAASaYCAABBYgIABcu7Q Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:18:32 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935BEE3C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <04c001d29cda$fb327fc0$f1977f40$@olddog.co.uk> <2e89f420-25ce-cd31-65b9-cb9cc8dc10de@kot-begemot.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <2e89f420-25ce-cd31-65b9-cb9cc8dc10de@kot-begemot.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.151.75] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.58C8F8DE.0196, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.160, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: b71d83ed3ccdfcdcfa009f1f2372f63c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:18:43 -0000 Hi Anton,=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Iv= anov > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:57 AM > To: netslices@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contri= butions >=20 > On 14/03/17 16:58, Stewart Bryant wrote: > > > > > > On 14/03/2017 15:52, Adrian Farrel wrote: > >> Thanks Hannu, > >> > >> This is the clearest and simplest statement I've seen on what a slice > >> is. > >> > >> Perhaps I am struggling because I need to see things in their > >> simplest form :-) > >> > >>> Slice =3D=3D application/service resources + VPN > >> But, of course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a > >> little. > >> What is an "application resource"? > >> I take it to mean that it is a network resource that has been > >> assigned for the sole control/use by a specific application. > >> If so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical > >> resource and a virtual resource so long as the capability of the > >> resource is guaranteed? > >> > >> And, indeed, what is a resource? > > > > Assuming we move all the latency and b/w consideration to the VPN > > component > > >=20 > Most of that is out of scope. As Andrew noted it is either orchestration,= model or > something else. I assume here Stewart means the network resources which the VPN relies on t= o provide the required b/w and latency characteristics, then it would be re= lated to the resources and characteristics in the underlay network. Not sur= e whether orchestration or models can play some role in this layer.=20 >=20 > What is clearly in-scope and not covered is the boundary and the > inter-relationship between the VPN component of a slice and a datacenter > overlay +/- SFC. What does the VPN component mean here? I guess you are talking about the in= terconnection/coordination between the VPN edge nodes and the service/funct= ions in the datacenters (please correct me if I misunderstood). > That also has "other civilian applications" besides the obvious use case = for > virtualized mobile core. I guess you mean the third-party applications. Best regards, Jie >=20 > A. >=20 >=20 >=20 > > It is the compute and storage resources needed for > > > > - On path NFV functions > > - Topology management, which includes routing, but these days is more > > - OAM and telementry and monitoring > > - Configuration management > > - Interface to the slicing system. > > > > - Stewart > > > > > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Adrian > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Netslices mailing list > >> Netslices@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Wed Mar 15 01:29:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1878612989F for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:29:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DR5d3k_NrjYX for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF323129887 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1co4JL-0005RO-8J; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:29:35 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.11.207]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1co4JL-0001SS-13; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:29:35 +0000 To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "netslices@ietf.org" References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <04c001d29cda$fb327fc0$f1977f40$@olddog.co.uk> <2e89f420-25ce-cd31-65b9-cb9cc8dc10de@kot-begemot.co.uk> <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935BEE3C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <26349a50-7ac0-fa52-9e31-50fe32282852@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:29:34 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935BEE3C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:29:40 -0000 On 15/03/17 08:18, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > Hi Anton, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov >> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:57 AM >> To: netslices@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions >> >> On 14/03/17 16:58, Stewart Bryant wrote: >>> >>> On 14/03/2017 15:52, Adrian Farrel wrote: >>>> Thanks Hannu, >>>> >>>> This is the clearest and simplest statement I've seen on what a slice >>>> is. >>>> >>>> Perhaps I am struggling because I need to see things in their >>>> simplest form :-) >>>> >>>>> Slice == application/service resources + VPN >>>> But, of course, this has just pushed the problem along the road a >>>> little. >>>> What is an "application resource"? >>>> I take it to mean that it is a network resource that has been >>>> assigned for the sole control/use by a specific application. >>>> If so, is there a difference between this being an actual physical >>>> resource and a virtual resource so long as the capability of the >>>> resource is guaranteed? >>>> >>>> And, indeed, what is a resource? >>> Assuming we move all the latency and b/w consideration to the VPN >>> component >>> >> Most of that is out of scope. As Andrew noted it is either orchestration, model or >> something else. > I assume here Stewart means the network resources which the VPN relies on to provide the required b/w and latency characteristics, then it would be related to the resources and characteristics in the underlay network. Not sure whether orchestration or models can play some role in this layer. I was going to answer on your thread to Adrian. Two issues here: 1. Information about the network - clearly in-scope and with existing work we can leverage - netmod and i2rs. In addition to that we need to figure out how it applies to networks governed by nvo3, homenet and 6lopan some or all (depending on our scope definition) can be our "resources". In fact - my view is simple - no leaf topology + resource modeled information == not in scope for inclusion. No exceptions. If it can be modelled and described, including it and serving a unified view so orchestration can work is something useful and in IETF scope. If not, sorry - not. Out of scope. 2. Control - not in scope. There is orchestration for this and any ideas of an all encompassing protocol to manage all of this are in the realm of "not realistic". > >> What is clearly in-scope and not covered is the boundary and the >> inter-relationship between the VPN component of a slice and a datacenter >> overlay +/- SFC. > What does the VPN component mean here? I guess you are talking about the interconnection/coordination between the VPN edge nodes and the service/functions in the datacenters (please correct me if I misunderstood). You understood correctly. Add to that interconnect/coordination to homenet and/or 6lopan too. > >> That also has "other civilian applications" besides the obvious use case for >> virtualized mobile core. > I guess you mean the third-party applications. No, I mean "other". I was joking about "civilian" :) A. > > Best regards, > Jie > >> A. >> >> >> >>> It is the compute and storage resources needed for >>> >>> - On path NFV functions >>> - Topology management, which includes routing, but these days is more >>> - OAM and telementry and monitoring >>> - Configuration management >>> - Interface to the slicing system. >>> >>> - Stewart >>> >>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Adrian >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Netslices mailing list >>>> Netslices@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netslices mailing list >>> Netslices@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Wed Mar 15 01:52:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185EC126C2F for ; 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[213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o52sm1697981wrb.51.2017.03.15.03.01.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Mar 2017 03:01:33 -0700 (PDT) To: d.lake@surrey.ac.uk, a.galis@ucl.ac.uk References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <43AC52AF-124B-4B4C-81B3-38AF5C588E11@ucl.ac.uk> <3F9D1C9C-BA35-477F-A2ED-5D3EFFFBB6C5@ucl.ac.uk> Cc: netslices@ietf.org From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:01:30 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B6C701D3768B869D7A39143C" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:01:39 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B6C701D3768B869D7A39143C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So my philosophy is that unless there is some distinguishing factor for NS, we should adopt the same approach as the IETF NFV and SFC groups adopt in terms of compute and storage management. If they manage it, we should use the same protocol. If for them this happens outside their system, we should make the same assumption. - Stewart On 15/03/2017 08:52, d.lake@surrey.ac.uk wrote: > > Alex: > > “if Operators are in need of NS [ i.e. I) partitions of networking, > computation, storage resources ( i.e. of the data plane) + II) > partitions of Net Functions ( of the Control and Management planes) ] > then NS will happened and it is already happening. > > This is the work which fits perfectly with the Network Slicing group.†> > I’m not sure I fully agree with the last statement based on your item I). > > My concern is that we’re heading towards IETF producing standards for > compute/storage. I understand providing (although I’ve yet to fully > understand the definition of) a NETWORK slice, i.e. something with the > bounds of the IETF and hence can possibly see how interfaces could be > defined towards something which was requesting that “slice†(we’re > back to orchestration), but I don’t see how a NETWORK slice standard > would/could have anything to do with COMPUTE slice provision. > > For example, I can see how a (richer and more functional than is > currently being defined) ETSI MANO system could orchestrate across > compute/storage and network fabric in order to provide a > defined-outcome for a particular application. > > David > > *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Alex Galis > *Sent:* 14 March 2017 22:31 > *To:* Stewart Bryant > *Cc:* Dongjie (Jimmy) ; netslices@ietf.org; > xuling (F) ; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Pedro > Martinez-Julia ; Kiran.Makhijani > ; Satish K ; Anton > Ivanov ; Alex Galis > *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for > Contributions > > Hi Stewart > > It looks that you are using a narrow view of what NS is (i.e. only a > partition of network resources) which was the initial view 10 years ago. > > Comments on line. > > On 14 Mar 2017, at 16:43, Stewart Bryant > wrote: > > Alex, you have only partially quoted what I said. > > I said: > > If the preferred method of delivering Flexible VPN is SDN then that > can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. > > [Alex] Delivering Flexible VPN ( I.e. partitions of networking > resources) via SDN or any other means is an old problem area. I am not > sure what ‘new problems’ you are planning to solve. > > > > > If customers need a flexible, SDN driven, VPN, we should design it. > > [Alex] If Operators are in need of " flexible, SDN driven, VPN†then > such problem is perfect for other WGs in IETF . It does not fit very > well within the scope of the work related to Net Slices. > > > > > If customers need NS (and they tell us they do) we should design it. > > [Alex] if Operators are in need of NS [ i.e. I) partitions of > networking, computation, storage resources ( i.e. of the data plane) + > II) partitions of Net Functions ( of the Control and Management > planes) ] then NS will happened and it is already happening. > > This is the work which fits perfectly with the Network Slicing group. > > > > > If the first turns out to be a subset of the second, > > [Alex] it is obvious that the first area of work is related to the > second however it is not necessarily a subset as partitioning the > networking resources can be achieve through many means. > > > > then great, but if the > first is needed, that need stands in its own right and should not be > constrained by the second. > > [Alex] The above NS described as I) +II) need to be integrally > created/operated/deactivated. This means the I) is not performed > before II) and II) is not performed before I). > > I hope that the above would be of use to you > > Best Regards > > Alex > > > - Stewart > > On 14/03/2017 14:30, Alex Galis wrote: > > Hi Stewart > > I am also concerned with the narrow view the "Flexible VPN is > SDN then that can and should be done, regardless of whether NS > is needed†which is IMHO not very practical and at best > secondary for NS and the emerging new IETF work and potential > new WG. > > This would be a perfect subject for VPN++ in IETF. Please > reconsider > > Alex > > On 14 Mar 2017, at 13:52, Stewart Bryant > > wrote: > > > > On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > > [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network > slicing (e.g. SDN), all > of these requirements, and much more, would be > supported.] > > > Pedro > > I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible > VPN, SDN and Network > Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering Flexible > VPN is SDN then that > can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed. > > Stewart > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > --------------B6C701D3768B869D7A39143C Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


So my philosophy is that unless there is some distinguishing factor for NS, we
should adopt the same approach as the IETF NFV and SFC groups adopt in terms
of compute and storage management.

If they manage it, we should use the same protocol.

If for them this happens outside their system, we should make the same assumption.

- Stewart


On 15/03/2017 08:52, d.lake@surrey.ac.uk wrote:

Alex:

 

“if Operators are in need of NS [ i.e. I)  partitions of networking, computation, storage resources ( i.e. of the data plane) + II) partitions of Net Functions ( of the Control and Management planes) ]  then NS will happened and it is already happening.

 

This is the work which fits perfectly with the Network Slicing group.â€

 

I’m not sure I fully agree with the last statement based on your item I).

 

My concern is that we’re heading towards IETF producing standards for compute/storage.   I understand providing (although I’ve yet to fully understand the definition of) a NETWORK slice, i.e. something with the bounds of the IETF and hence can possibly see how interfaces could be defined towards something which was requesting that “slice†(we’re back to orchestration), but I don’t see how a NETWORK slice standard would/could have anything to do with COMPUTE slice provision.

 

For example, I can see how a (richer and more functional than is currently being defined) ETSI MANO system could orchestrate across compute/storage and network fabric in order to provide a defined-outcome for a particular application.

 

David

 

 

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alex Galis
Sent: 14 March 2017 22:31
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; netslices@ietf.org; xuling (F) <xuling3@huawei.com>; Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Pedro Martinez-Julia <pedro@nict.go.jp>; Kiran.Makhijani <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com>; Satish K <satish.ietf@gmail.com>; Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>; Alex Galis <a.galis@ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions

 

Hi Stewart

 

It looks that you are using a narrow view of what NS is (i.e. only a partition of network resources) which was the initial view 10 years ago.

 

Comments on line. 

 

On 14 Mar 2017, at 16:43, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Alex, you have only partially quoted what I said.

I said:

If the preferred method of delivering  Flexible VPN is SDN then that
can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed.

 

 

[Alex] Delivering Flexible VPN ( I.e. partitions of networking resources) via SDN or any other means is an old problem area. I am not sure what ‘new problems’  you are planning to solve.

 




If customers need a flexible, SDN driven, VPN, we should design it.

 

 

[Alex] If Operators are in need of " flexible, SDN driven, VPN† then such problem is perfect for other WGs in IETF .  It  does not fit very well within the scope of the work related to Net Slices.




If customers need NS (and they tell us they do) we should design it.

 

 

[Alex] if Operators are in need of NS [ i.e. I)  partitions of networking, computation, storage resources ( i.e. of the data plane) + II) partitions of Net Functions ( of the Control and Management planes) ]  then NS will happened and it is already happening.

 

This is the work which fits perfectly with the Network Slicing group.




If the first turns out to be a subset of the second,

 

 

[Alex] it is obvious  that the first area of work is related to the second however it is not necessarily a subset as partitioning the networking resources can be achieve through many means.



then great, but if the
first is needed, that need stands in its own right and should not be
constrained by the second.

 

 

[Alex] The above NS described as I) +II)  need to be integrally created/operated/deactivated. This means the I) is not performed before II) and II) is not performed before I).

 

 

I hope that the above would be of use to you

 

Best Regards

Alex


- Stewart

On 14/03/2017 14:30, Alex Galis wrote:

Hi Stewart 

I am also concerned with the narrow view the "Flexible VPN is SDN then that can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed†which is IMHO not very practical and at best secondary for NS and the emerging new IETF work and potential new WG. 

This would be a perfect subject for VPN++ in IETF. Please reconsider

 

Alex

 

 

On 14 Mar 2017, at 13:52, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:

 



On 14/03/2017 07:25, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:

  [If VPN is as flexible as proposed by network slicing (e.g. SDN), all
  of these requirements, and much more, would be supported.]


Pedro

I am concerned that this conflates three things, Flexible VPN, SDN and Network
Slicing. If the preferred method of delivering  Flexible VPN is SDN then that
can and should be done, regardless of whether NS is needed.

Stewart

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Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

 

 

 


--------------B6C701D3768B869D7A39143C-- From nobody Wed Mar 15 22:44:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E6DD1201F8 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 21:56:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4N_6Z5VoADHB for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 21:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26E5E120025 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 21:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DCW52616; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:56:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMI404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.75.40) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:56:15 +0000 Received: from SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.158]) by SZXEMI404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.75.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:56:07 +0800 From: "qiangli (D)" To: Anton Ivanov , Pedro Martinez-Julia , Andrew McLachlan CC: "netslices@ietf.org" , "xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , "Kiran.Makhijani" , Stewart Bryant , Adrian Farrel , Satish K Thread-Topic: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions Thread-Index: AQHSkTCZFIbofckpiUyw4LbquFIK5aGIAatggALG9ACAAQhDoIAHeVeAgAAU1QCAABG8gIAADykAgABsDwCAAAh7gIAABBmAgAC20wCAAGAqgIAB8L0Q Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:56:06 +0000 Message-ID: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.163.138] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.58CA1AF0.0253, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.7.158, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 4ef7f118f00c5e9d22cb255f2b7ade50 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 22:44:19 -0700 Subject: [Netslices] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIE5ldFNsaWNlcyBJRVRGIDk4OiBzaWRl?= =?gb2312?b?IG1lZXRpbmc6IENhbGwgZm9yIENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbnM=?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:56:22 -0000 SGkgQW50b24sDQoNCkkgYW0gYWZyYWlkIGl0IGlzIGluYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgdG8gcmVnYXJkIGFs bCBvZiB0aGluZ3MgbGlrZSBmbGV4aWJpbGl0eSBzdXBwb3J0IGFzIGFuIG9yY2hlc3RyYXRpb24g ZXhlcmNpc2Ugd2hpY2ggY291bGQgYmUgZG9uZSBpbiBhIGhpZ2hlciBsYXllciBwbGF0Zm9ybS4g DQoNCkNvbnNpZGVyaW5nIGEgc2l0dWF0aW9uIHRoYXQgZGlmZmVyZW50IGRvbWFpbnMgKGkuZS4s IFJBTiwgVHJhbnNwb3J0IG5ldHdvcmssIENOKSBiZWxvbmcgdG8gZGlmZmVyZW50IHByb3ZpZGVy cywgYSBjb21tb24gaGlnaGVyIGxheWVyIHBsYXRmb3JtIChtYXliZSB3ZSBjYW4gY2FsbCBpdCB2 ZXJ0aWNhbCBhcHByb2FjaCkgaXMgbm8gbG9uZ2VyIHZhbGlkLiBPbiB0aGUgY29udHJhcnksIHRo ZSBob3Jpem9udGFsIGFwcHJvYWNoIHRoYXQgbGV0IGRvbWFpbiBtYW5hZ2VycyBuZWdvdGlhdGUg YW5kIGNvb3BlcmF0ZSB3aXRoIGVhY2ggb3RoZXIgd2lsbCBiZSBiZXR0ZXIuIE91ciBJRVRGIHNo b3VsZCBjb25zaWRlci9kZXNpZ24gdGhlIEVhc3QtV2VzdCBpbnRlcmZhY2VzIGFtb25nIGRvbWFp biBtYW5hZ2VycyBmb3IgaG9yaXpvbnRhbCBhcHByb2FjaC4gRm9yIHZlcnRpY2FsIGFwcHJvYWNo 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cyBhZGRzIHNvbWUgdmFsdWFibGUgcG9pbnRzIHRvIGp1c3RpZnkgdGhlIGFjdHVhbCBuZWVkIGZv ciBhIA0KPiByZWZlcmVuY2UgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIGZvciBuZXR3b3JrIHNsaWNpbmcuLi4NCj4N Cj4gUmVnYXJkcywNCj4gUGVkcm8NCj4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCk5ldHNsaWNlcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCk5ldHNsaWNlc0BpZXRm Lm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRzbGljZXMNCg== From nobody Wed Mar 15 23:45:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822BB124D68 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:45:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wSUg2xJBWmFe for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18D671243FE for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coP9k-0006QV-NH for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:45:04 +0000 Received: from wyvern.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.72]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coP9k-0005pW-GQ for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:45:04 +0000 From: Anton Ivanov References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> Cc: "netslices@ietf.org" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:45:04 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gbk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgTmV0U2xpY2VzIElFVEYgOTg6IHNp?= =?utf-8?q?de_meeting=3A_Call_for_Contributions?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:45:07 -0000 On 16/03/17 04:56, qiangli (D) wrote: > Hi Anton, > > I am afraid it is inappropriate to regard all of things like flexibility support as an orchestration exercise which could be done in a higher layer platform. > > Considering a situation that different domains (i.e., RAN, Transport network, CN) belong to different providers, a common higher layer platform (maybe we can call it vertical approach) is no longer valid. The idea of a common horizontal platform is even less valid. If two providers cannot agree to provide flexibility at the layer that does the billing they are not going to provide it any other layer any time soon. A. > On the contrary, the horizontal approach that let domain managers negotiate and cooperate with each other will be better. Our IETF should consider/design the East-West interfaces among domain managers for horizontal approach. For vertical approach, we still need to design the North-South interfaces for the description of tenants' requirements and feedback from network. > > > Best regards, > Cristina. Qiang > > -----ÓʼþÔ­¼þ----- > ·¢¼þÈË: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] ´ú±í Anton Ivanov > ·¢ËÍʱ¼ä: 2017Äê3ÔÂ15ÈÕ 15:16 > ÊÕ¼þÈË: Pedro Martinez-Julia; Andrew McLachlan > ³­ËÍ: netslices@ietf.org; xuling (F); Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Kiran.Makhijani; Stewart Bryant; Adrian Farrel; Satish K > Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: Call for Contributions > > On 15/03/17 01:32, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >> Dear Andrew, Adrian, and others, >> >> My intermission was only to discuss my thoughts on using VPN as a mean >> for slicing transport networks. Please, do not extrapolate the lack of >> new requirements in very specific use cases, which are actually asking >> for VPNs. >> >> Retaking the question on "network slicing" (without being specifically >> linked to transport network or VPNs), we have a set of requirements >> that are not met today. From my point of view, they are: >> >> - Enhanced infrastructure flexibility: Both underlying and overlying >> network elements can be added, removed, scaled up/down, re/connected, >> re/configured, etc. in terms of seconds/milliseconds instead of hours >> or minutes. > That is orchestration, does not need a protocol - not IETF subject. > >> - Resource plasticity: Flexibility is also taken to the atomic level, so >> the view of resources as fixed elements (e.g. a link between A and B >> with properties P_x) gives pass to a "plastic element" that can change >> its shape dynamically and promptly in response to stimuli coming from >> different sources: consumer requirements specified through a standard >> and simple interface (current interfaces are not good for such task), >> changes in the working environment (events) or the workload, etc. > That just broke the buzzword metering component in my brain. I am sorry it is not very plastic and it needs a good signal-to-noise ratio to work with. > > In any case - if you want to change any of the resources attached dynamically, that is once again an orchestration problem. The most we can do here is define some models and get the whole thing aligned correctly with i2rs and netmod so that orchestration has the appropriate material to work with. > >> - Composability: Regardless of their provider, or even specific nature, >> network resources (and services) would be able to be easily composed >> to build "composite/composed resources/services" that somehow inherit >> the capabilities/qualities of the original resources, getting enhanced >> reliability by favoring reusability, among other benefits. This would >> be like a crosswise SFC. > Orchestration. > >> >> A crazy example would be like: >> - I want to account, log, and share (e.g. to my colleagues or peers of >> my favorite social network) the temperature that is around me at any >> moment. >> - I request, probably to different infrastructure providers, a link >> between my mobile phone and my home manager, a caching service, an >> authorization service, a router, a temperature sensor for the room >> where I am now, and a WiFi AP. >> - I somehow build a composite service by lengthwise (SFC) and crosswise >> integration of those elements, and publish it. >> - I then move to other location, which is detected by my mobile phone >> and triggers an update of the service by changing some parameters of >> the elements that compose it (changing the location of the WiFi AP and >> sensor, the endpoints of the link, etc.). >> - I decide to open the access to more levels of my social network, so >> the authorization service gets updated but the service also receives >> much more requests and thus increases its workload. The appropriate >> parameters are tuned to overcome this: link B/W, cache location and/or >> replication, etc. > What you are describing is an interaction of a network slice with on-premises network. We cannot realistically cover any and every crazy idea in this area. There needs to be some narrowing down of the scope in order for this to result in viable standards. > > If suspect there may be a use case to look into a boundary interaction between a homenet and a VPN from a slice perspective and that can join the queue of issues to be looked at. Similarly, a boundary of 6LoPaN and the VPN under slice control > > We cannot realistically cover any OTHER use cases because they lack the definition to work with. > > Just to be clear, we cannot "appropriate" control of the leaf if it is already subject to what homenet, 6lopan, etc are working on. We can only work up to and including the boundary. > > Once again, a lot of this smells like model definitions and a weird case of non-i2rs topology import (or maybe expand i2rs? dunno...). > > A, > >> This is just part of an scenario envisioned to exploit the main >> benefits of network slicing (denoted by the required flexibility), >> also including virtualization, network service migration, merging >> computing and network services together, etc. >> >> I hope this adds some valuable points to justify the actual need for a >> reference architecture for network slicing... >> >> Regards, >> Pedro >> > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Wed Mar 15 23:57:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25736126B6E for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:49:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uJAWO4p8mnbZ for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:49:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.nict.go.jp (ns2.nict.go.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:232:300::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE00C126B6D for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:49:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw2.nict.go.jp (gw2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.251]) by ns2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2G6nhK6082295; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:49:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail2.nict.go.jp (mail2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.15]) by gw2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2G6nhF8082292; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:49:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from spectre (unknown [133.243.115.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail Spool Server2) with ESMTPS id 7386FA9F1; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:49:43 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:49:49 +0900 From: Pedro Martinez-Julia To: Anton Ivanov Cc: "qiangli (D)" , Andrew McLachlan , "netslices@ietf.org" , "xuling (F)" , "Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com" , "Kiran.Makhijani" , Stewart Bryant , Adrian Farrel , Satish K Message-ID: <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> References: <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.0 (2017-02-23) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at zenith2 X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:57:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgTmV0U2xpY2VzIElFVEYgOTg6IHNp?= =?utf-8?q?de_meeting=3A_Call_for_Contributions?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:49:50 -0000 On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 06:41:36AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: > On 16/03/17 04:56, qiangli (D) wrote: > > Hi Anton, > > > > I am afraid it is inappropriate to regard all of things like > > flexibility support as an orchestration exercise which could be done > > in a higher layer platform. > > > > Considering a situation that different domains (i.e., RAN, Transport > > network, CN) belong to different providers, a common higher layer > > platform (maybe we can call it vertical approach) is no longer > > valid. > > The idea of a common horizontal platform is even less valid. > > If two providers cannot agree to provide flexibility at the layer that > does the billing they are not going to provide it any other layer any > time soon. But, in other areas (e.g. computing), providers are actually providing the required flexibility and billing for it. There won't be a "common horizontal platform" but "platforms that are compliant with a reference architecture so they can interoperate easily". > A. Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martinez-Julia Network Science and Convergence Device Technology Laboratory Network System Research Institute National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan Email: pedro@nict.go.jp --------------------------------------------------------- *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** From nobody Wed Mar 15 23:58:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96C3124D68 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:58:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ccpkb5n_ZXvm for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8014B1204DA for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coPMg-0006R7-5c for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:58:26 +0000 Received: from wyvern.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.72]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coPMf-00066Z-V8 for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:58:25 +0000 From: Anton Ivanov References: <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> To: "netslices@ietf.org" Message-ID: <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:58:25 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgTmV0U2xpY2VzIElFVEYgOTg6IHNp?= =?utf-8?q?de_meeting=3A_Call_for_Contributions?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:58:29 -0000 On 16/03/17 06:49, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 06:41:36AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: >> On 16/03/17 04:56, qiangli (D) wrote: >>> Hi Anton, >>> >>> I am afraid it is inappropriate to regard all of things like >>> flexibility support as an orchestration exercise which could be done >>> in a higher layer platform. >>> >>> Considering a situation that different domains (i.e., RAN, Transport >>> network, CN) belong to different providers, a common higher layer >>> platform (maybe we can call it vertical approach) is no longer >>> valid. >> The idea of a common horizontal platform is even less valid. >> >> If two providers cannot agree to provide flexibility at the layer that >> does the billing they are not going to provide it any other layer any >> time soon. > But, in other areas (e.g. computing), providers are actually providing > the required flexibility and billing for it. There won't be a "common > horizontal platform" but "platforms that are compliant with a reference > architecture so they can interoperate easily". First of all, a SP network just does not work this way. If it cannot be orchestrated and billed it does not exist. Second, flexibility, variable bandwidth, etc - are all billable items. The idea that you can create the means to establish billable items across a provider network without billing, capacity planning and orchestration involved is in the realm of entertaining. Very entertaining indeed. However, entertainment is not a subject for a WGs and RFCs (except the 1st of april ones). A. > >> A. > Regards, > Pedro > From nobody Wed Mar 15 23:58:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF462126B71 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:58:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2XvE6jgrmdOM for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.nict.go.jp (ns1.nict.go.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:232:300::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D26E1204DA for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw1.nict.go.jp (gw1.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.250]) by ns1.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2G6wRam053065; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:58:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail2.nict.go.jp (mail2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.15]) by gw1.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2G6wRYD053062; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:58:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from spectre (unknown [133.243.115.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail Spool Server2) with ESMTPS id 71724AAF5; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:58:27 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:58:33 +0900 From: Pedro Martinez-Julia To: list-netslices Cc: "qiangli (D)" , Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <20170316065833.GC1704@spectre> References: <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.0 (2017-02-23) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at zenith1 X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Flexibility Requirement X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:58:38 -0000 On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 06:41:36AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: > On 16/03/17 04:56, qiangli (D) wrote: > > Hi Anton, > > > > I am afraid it is inappropriate to regard all of things like > > flexibility support as an orchestration exercise which could be done > > in a higher layer platform. > > > > Considering a situation that different domains (i.e., RAN, Transport > > network, CN) belong to different providers, a common higher layer > > platform (maybe we can call it vertical approach) is no longer > > valid. > > The idea of a common horizontal platform is even less valid. > > If two providers cannot agree to provide flexibility at the layer that > does the billing they are not going to provide it any other layer any > time soon. But, in other areas (e.g. computing), providers are actually providing the required flexibility and billing for it. There won't be a "common horizontal platform" but "platforms that are compliant with a reference architecture so they can interoperate easily". > A. Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martinez-Julia Network Science and Convergence Device Technology Laboratory Network System Research Institute National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan Email: pedro@nict.go.jp --------------------------------------------------------- *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** From nobody Thu Mar 16 00:08:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D462B126B6D for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 00:08:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8oapoqjlYdIt for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 00:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.nict.go.jp (ns2.nict.go.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:232:300::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB83412441E for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 00:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw2.nict.go.jp (gw2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.251]) by ns2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2G78hlU001557 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:08:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail2.nict.go.jp (mail2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.15]) by gw2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v2G78giA001551 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:08:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from spectre (unknown [133.243.115.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail Spool Server2) with ESMTPS id 90D18AC44 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:08:42 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:08:48 +0900 From: Pedro Martinez-Julia To: netslices@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.0 (2017-02-23) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at zenith2 X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Flexibility Requirement X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:08:46 -0000 On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 06:58:25AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: > On 16/03/17 06:49, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 06:41:36AM +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote: > >> On 16/03/17 04:56, qiangli (D) wrote: > >>> Hi Anton, > >>> > >>> I am afraid it is inappropriate to regard all of things like > >>> flexibility support as an orchestration exercise which could be > >>> done in a higher layer platform. > >>> > >>> Considering a situation that different domains (i.e., RAN, > >>> Transport network, CN) belong to different providers, a common > >>> higher layer platform (maybe we can call it vertical approach) is > >>> no longer valid. > >> The idea of a common horizontal platform is even less valid. > >> > >> If two providers cannot agree to provide flexibility at the layer > >> that does the billing they are not going to provide it any other > >> layer any time soon. > > But, in other areas (e.g. computing), providers are actually > > providing the required flexibility and billing for it. There won't > > be a "common horizontal platform" but "platforms that are compliant > > with a reference architecture so they can interoperate easily". > > First of all, a SP network just does not work this way. If it cannot > be orchestrated and billed it does not exist. Who is saying the opposite? > Second, flexibility, variable bandwidth, etc - are all billable items. > The idea that you can create the means to establish billable items > across a provider network without billing, capacity planning and > orchestration involved is in the realm of entertaining. Very > entertaining indeed. However, entertainment is not a subject for a WGs > and RFCs (except the 1st of april ones). Again, who said the opposite? Any feature we can think about would be billable (although sometimes not billed) or it just does not require any effort. We cannot consider other situation. But it is totally different from the need for flexibility in network services, and an slicing architecture would provide the needed coherence to achieve such flexibility while enforcing some compatibility among providers. What is wrong with it? > A. Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martinez-Julia Network Science and Convergence Device Technology Laboratory Network System Research Institute National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan Email: pedro@nict.go.jp --------------------------------------------------------- *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** From nobody Thu Mar 16 00:45:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3AF0126BF7 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 00:45:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aE70u-jKDykj for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 00:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C34D11250B8 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 00:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coQ5u-0006TQ-VZ for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:45:11 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.11.207]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coQ5u-0006zk-Oj for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:45:10 +0000 To: netslices@ietf.org References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:45:10 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Flexibility Requirement X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:45:15 -0000 >> First of all, a SP network just does not work this way. If it cannot >> be orchestrated and billed it does not exist. > Who is saying the opposite? > >> Second, flexibility, variable bandwidth, etc - are all billable items. >> The idea that you can create the means to establish billable items >> across a provider network without billing, capacity planning and >> orchestration involved is in the realm of entertaining. Very >> entertaining indeed. However, entertainment is not a subject for a WGs >> and RFCs (except the 1st of april ones). > Again, who said the opposite? > > Any feature we can think about would be billable (although sometimes not > billed) or it just does not require any effort. We cannot consider other > situation. But it is totally different from the need for flexibility in > network services, and an slicing architecture would provide the needed > coherence to achieve such flexibility while enforcing some compatibility > among providers. What is wrong with it? Cool - please provide a use case which is not covered by the current existing stuff. The last set you provided was doable using 1990-es and sub-2000 RFC technology and redone 3 times since 1994 - twice using MPLS (PWE and L3VPN) and once using L2VPN - to a total of 4 times so far. So something that actually needs to be done, is not done at present and is "flexible" as a use case, please. You are failing to provide a single example of "flexible" that has not been done and needs doing. Please do so so we can actually enqueue it for the use case draft. I personally do not see anything like this on the network side. It has been done, dusted and does not need redoing for use cases which are sufficiently "common" to become a standard. The only open issues needed to work on are interworking to "resources" where resources are datacenter and leaves governed by other WGs or standard bodies - homenet, 6lopan, nvo3 or (outside IETF) 3GPP. A. > >> A. > Regards, > Pedro > From nobody Thu Mar 16 01:34:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACA32127076 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:34:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zvNHkt5uVT_j for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9687612704B for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coQrR-0006V2-GG for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:34:17 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.11.207]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coQrR-0007pY-9N for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:34:17 +0000 To: netslices@ietf.org References: From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <6a08d29f-2126-b478-a266-c08f5b11fd37@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:34:15 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CC4D84DED635E374BC9BC1B3" X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Draft on Network Slicing Architecture X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:34:23 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CC4D84DED635E374BC9BC1B3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3.1.2. 1. Implies Orchestration 2. Mobile specific 3. Does not cover home network resources 4. Does not cover datacenter resources properly. "may require cloud resources" is not an acceptable definition going towards standard - it is marketing. The data center in IETF is mostly NVO3 and to a lesser extent L2VPN. What is the interworking level and function. 5. Has the dirty T word. We are not doing Transport and Layer 1 except as an information/topology model. 3.1.3 - Same as above. 3GPP-fest belongs in 3GPP. I do not see a point of repeating 3GPP work in IETF. We already had one multi-year soap opera with MPLS-TP and ITU work duplication, no thanks, we do not need another. If we are to work on something it should not be a duplicate. 3.1.5. That is literally a description of orchestration via an API gateway. Why is this anywhere near IETF? 3.1.6. Orchestration. Again. There is no IETF architecture here. There is no network architecture, there is no interconnect architecture, there is no interface architecture, there is no protocols, nothing. 4.1. Physical Layer. Again - same as 3.1.5. What is it doing here? 4.2. Same This in first read does not belong. A) It includes Layer 1. B) It includes orchestration and has little or no networking to speak of C) It does not specify any problem scope which the IETF works on and is good at and it also provides standard body work duplication environment. Creating a duplicated standards environment is a fantastic way to maintain 5 years of subtly non-compliant implementations, because "the standard is not finalized". While I recall quite well how and who used this during the MPLS-TP IETF/ITU debacle, I do not see why we should be supporting an attempt to repeat this. In fact we should be explicitly against abusing IETF as a standards body for this particular purpose. A. On 15/03/17 03:55, GENG Liang wrote: > Hi all, > > We have submitted a draft on the architechture of Network Slicing. You > can find the draft from the following link. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geng-netslices-architecture/ > > This draft briefly describes a systemetic top-level view of Network > Slicing and defines some basic roles in the architechture. We also > identifies some key technical issues that Network slicing should > possibly address as the work progress. > > We are planning to present this document in Chicago. Comments are > extremely welcome. > > Best wishes > Liang > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Liang GENG > China Mobile Research Institute > > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices --------------CC4D84DED635E374BC9BC1B3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
3.1.2.

1. Implies Orchestration
2. Mobile specific
3. Does not cover home network resources
4. Does not cover datacenter resources properly. "may require cloud resources" is not an acceptable definition going towards standard - it is marketing. The data center in IETF is mostly NVO3 and to a lesser extent L2VPN. What is the interworking level and function.
5. Has the dirty T word. We are not doing Transport and Layer 1 except as an information/topology model.

3.1.3 - Same as above. 3GPP-fest belongs in 3GPP. I do not see a point of repeating 3GPP work in IETF. We already had one multi-year soap opera with MPLS-TP and ITU work duplication, no thanks, we do not need another. If we are to work on something it should not be a duplicate.

3.1.5. That is literally a description of orchestration via an API gateway. Why is this anywhere near IETF?

3.1.6. Orchestration. Again. There is no IETF architecture here. There is no network architecture, there is no interconnect architecture, there is no interface architecture, there is no protocols, nothing.

4.1. Physical Layer. Again - same as 3.1.5. What is it doing here?
4.2. Same

This in first read does not belong.

A) It includes Layer 1.
B) It includes orchestration and has little or no networking to speak of
C) It does not specify any problem scope which the IETF works on and is good at and it also provides standard body work duplication environment.

Creating a duplicated standards environment is a fantastic way to maintain 5 years of subtly non-compliant implementations, because "the standard is not finalized". While I recall quite well how and who used this during the MPLS-TP IETF/ITU debacle, I do not see why we should be supporting an attempt to repeat this. In fact we should be explicitly against abusing IETF as a standards body for this particular purpose.

A.


On 15/03/17 03:55, GENG Liang wrote:
Hi all,

We have submitted a draft on the architechture of Network Slicing. You can find the draft from the following link.


This draft briefly describes a systemetic top-level view of Network Slicing and defines some basic roles in the architechture. We also identifies some key technical issues that Network slicing should possibly address as the work progress.

We are planning to present this document in Chicago. Comments are extremely welcome. 

Best wishes
Liang

Liang GENG
China Mobile Research Institute


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--------------CC4D84DED635E374BC9BC1B3-- From nobody Thu Mar 16 01:37:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB828127076 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:37:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lsJxNjo0kc_T for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EEA012704B for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DIY94609; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:37:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMI404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.75.40) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:35:16 +0000 Received: from SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.158]) by SZXEMI404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.75.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:35:12 +0800 From: "qiangli (D)" To: Anton Ivanov , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Flexibility Requirement Thread-Index: AQHSniQvNJqvqRCJ2kKSySo+ecQlnaGWkBUAgACI8qA= Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:35:11 +0000 Message-ID: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.163.138] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.58CA4ED1.04F2, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.7.158, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 52850993323bdcf161c0e879cb096b76 Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIEZsZXhpYmlsaXR5IFJlcXVpcmVtZW50?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:37:44 -0000 SGkgQW50b24sDQoNCkRhdGFjZW50ZXIgaXMgaW5kZWVkIGEgcmVzb3VyY2UgdGhhdCBuZWVkcyBm bGV4aWJsZSBhbGxvY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBtYW5hZ2VtZW50LiBFeGNlcHQgZm9yIGRhdGFjZW50ZXIs IGFsbCBvZiB0aGUgbmV0d29yayByZXNvdXJjZXMgZnJvbSBSQU4gdG8gQ04gKGluY2x1ZGUgcmFk aW8gdW5pdCwgcm91dGVyLCBwb3J0LCBDUFUsIFMtR1cgZXRjLikgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGFwcHJvcHJp YXRlbHkgYWxsb2NhdGVkLiANCg0KRXZlbiBmb3IgYSBwcm92aWRlciwgaXQgaXMgaW1wb3NzaWJs ZSB0byBtYW5hZ2UgYWxsIG9mIHRoZXNlIHJlc291cmNlcyBqdXN0IHRocm91Z2ggYSBzaW5nbGUg Y29udHJvbGxlci9wbGF0Zm9ybSwgc2luY2UgZGlmZmVyZW50IGRvbWFpbnMgaGF2ZSBxdWl0ZSBk aWZmZXJlbnQgdGVjaG5pY2FsIGF0dHJpYnV0ZXMuIFJBTiwgVE4sIENOIG11c3QgaGF2ZSB0aGVp ciBvd24gZG9tYWluIGNvbnRyb2xsZXJzLiBJbiBvcmRlciB0byBhY2hpZXZlIHRoZSBmbGV4aWJs ZSBFMkUgbmV0d29yayBzbGljaW5nLCB3ZSBoYXZlIHRvIGNvbnNpZGVyIHRoZSBpbnRlcm9wZXJh dGlvbiBhbW9uZyBkb21haW4gY29udHJvbGxlcnMuIFRoYXQgaXMsIHdlIG5lZWQgdG8gZGVzaWdu IHRoZSBzdGQuIGVhc3Qtd2VzdCBpbnRlcmZhY2VzLg0KDQoNCkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywNCkNyaXN0 aW5hLnFpYW5nDQoNCg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IE5ldHNsaWNlcyBbbWFp bHRvOm5ldHNsaWNlcy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIEFudG9uIEl2YW5vdg0Kt6LLzcqx vOQ6IDIwMTfE6jPUwjE2yNUgMTU6NDUNCsrVvP7IyzogbmV0c2xpY2VzQGlldGYub3JnDQrW98zi OiBSZTogW05ldHNsaWNlc10gRmxleGliaWxpdHkgUmVxdWlyZW1lbnQNCg0KDQo+PiBGaXJzdCBv ZiBhbGwsIGEgU1AgbmV0d29yayBqdXN0IGRvZXMgbm90IHdvcmsgdGhpcyB3YXkuICBJZiBpdCBj YW5ub3QgDQo+PiBiZSBvcmNoZXN0cmF0ZWQgYW5kIGJpbGxlZCBpdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBleGlzdC4N Cj4gV2hvIGlzIHNheWluZyB0aGUgb3Bwb3NpdGU/DQo+DQo+PiBTZWNvbmQsIGZsZXhpYmlsaXR5 LCB2YXJpYWJsZSBiYW5kd2lkdGgsIGV0YyAtIGFyZSBhbGwgYmlsbGFibGUgaXRlbXMuDQo+PiBU aGUgaWRlYSB0aGF0IHlvdSBjYW4gY3JlYXRlIHRoZSBtZWFucyB0byBlc3RhYmxpc2ggYmlsbGFi bGUgaXRlbXMgDQo+PiBhY3Jvc3MgYSBwcm92aWRlciBuZXR3b3JrIHdpdGhvdXQgYmlsbGluZywg Y2FwYWNpdHkgcGxhbm5pbmcgYW5kIA0KPj4gb3JjaGVzdHJhdGlvbiBpbnZvbHZlZCBpcyBpbiB0 aGUgcmVhbG0gb2YgZW50ZXJ0YWluaW5nLiBWZXJ5IA0KPj4gZW50ZXJ0YWluaW5nIGluZGVlZC4g SG93ZXZlciwgZW50ZXJ0YWlubWVudCBpcyBub3QgYSBzdWJqZWN0IGZvciBhIA0KPj4gV0dzIGFu ZCBSRkNzICAoZXhjZXB0IHRoZSAxc3Qgb2YgYXByaWwgb25lcykuDQo+IEFnYWluLCB3aG8gc2Fp ZCB0aGUgb3Bwb3NpdGU/DQo+DQo+IEFueSBmZWF0dXJlIHdlIGNhbiB0aGluayBhYm91dCB3b3Vs ZCBiZSBiaWxsYWJsZSAoYWx0aG91Z2ggc29tZXRpbWVzIA0KPiBub3QNCj4gYmlsbGVkKSBvciBp dCBqdXN0IGRvZXMgbm90IHJlcXVpcmUgYW55IGVmZm9ydC4gV2UgY2Fubm90IGNvbnNpZGVyIA0K PiBvdGhlciBzaXR1YXRpb24uIEJ1dCBpdCBpcyB0b3RhbGx5IGRpZmZlcmVudCBmcm9tIHRoZSBu ZWVkIGZvciANCj4gZmxleGliaWxpdHkgaW4gbmV0d29yayBzZXJ2aWNlcywgYW5kIGFuIHNsaWNp bmcgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIHdvdWxkIA0KPiBwcm92aWRlIHRoZSBuZWVkZWQgY29oZXJlbmNlIHRv IGFjaGlldmUgc3VjaCBmbGV4aWJpbGl0eSB3aGlsZSANCj4gZW5mb3JjaW5nIHNvbWUgY29tcGF0 aWJpbGl0eSBhbW9uZyBwcm92aWRlcnMuIFdoYXQgaXMgd3Jvbmcgd2l0aCBpdD8NCg0KQ29vbCAt IHBsZWFzZSBwcm92aWRlIGEgdXNlIGNhc2Ugd2hpY2ggaXMgbm90IGNvdmVyZWQgYnkgdGhlIGN1 cnJlbnQgZXhpc3Rpbmcgc3R1ZmYuDQoNClRoZSBsYXN0IHNldCB5b3UgcHJvdmlkZWQgd2FzIGRv YWJsZSB1c2luZyAxOTkwLWVzIGFuZCBzdWItMjAwMCBSRkMgdGVjaG5vbG9neSBhbmQgcmVkb25l IDMgdGltZXMgc2luY2UgMTk5NCAtIHR3aWNlIHVzaW5nIE1QTFMgKFBXRSBhbmQNCkwzVlBOKSBh bmQgb25jZSB1c2luZyBMMlZQTiAtIHRvIGEgdG90YWwgb2YgNCB0aW1lcyBzbyBmYXIuDQoNClNv IHNvbWV0aGluZyB0aGF0IGFjdHVhbGx5IG5lZWRzIHRvIGJlIGRvbmUsIGlzIG5vdCBkb25lIGF0 IHByZXNlbnQgYW5kIGlzICJmbGV4aWJsZSIgYXMgYSB1c2UgY2FzZSwgcGxlYXNlLiBZb3UgYXJl IGZhaWxpbmcgdG8gcHJvdmlkZSBhIHNpbmdsZSBleGFtcGxlIG9mICJmbGV4aWJsZSIgdGhhdCBo YXMgbm90IGJlZW4gZG9uZSBhbmQgbmVlZHMgZG9pbmcuIFBsZWFzZSBkbyBzbyBzbyB3ZSBjYW4g YWN0dWFsbHkgZW5xdWV1ZSBpdCBmb3IgdGhlIHVzZSBjYXNlIGRyYWZ0Lg0KDQpJIHBlcnNvbmFs bHkgZG8gbm90IHNlZSBhbnl0aGluZyBsaWtlIHRoaXMgb24gdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsgc2lkZS4gSXQg aGFzIGJlZW4gZG9uZSwgZHVzdGVkIGFuZCBkb2VzIG5vdCBuZWVkIHJlZG9pbmcgZm9yIHVzZSBj YXNlcyB3aGljaCBhcmUgc3VmZmljaWVudGx5ICJjb21tb24iIHRvIGJlY29tZSBhIHN0YW5kYXJk LiBUaGUgb25seSBvcGVuIGlzc3VlcyBuZWVkZWQgdG8gd29yayBvbiBhcmUgaW50ZXJ3b3JraW5n IHRvICJyZXNvdXJjZXMiIHdoZXJlIHJlc291cmNlcyBhcmUgZGF0YWNlbnRlciBhbmQgbGVhdmVz IGdvdmVybmVkIGJ5IG90aGVyIFdHcyBvciBzdGFuZGFyZCBib2RpZXMgLSBob21lbmV0LCA2bG9w YW4sIG52bzMgb3IgKG91dHNpZGUgSUVURikgM0dQUC4NCg0KQS4NCg0KPg0KPj4gQS4NCj4gUmVn YXJkcywNCj4gUGVkcm8NCj4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18NCk5ldHNsaWNlcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCk5ldHNsaWNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0K aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRzbGljZXMNCg== From nobody Thu Mar 16 01:45:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68CDE126FB3 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:45:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dzREsmazFbC6 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD202126C23 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coR1m-0006VL-QW; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:44:58 +0000 Received: from wyvern.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.72]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coR1m-00081C-Js; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:44:58 +0000 To: "qiangli (D)" , "netslices@ietf.org" References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:44:57 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gbk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRmxleGliaWxpdHkgUmVxdWlyZW1l?= =?utf-8?q?nt?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:45:04 -0000 On 16/03/17 08:35, qiangli (D) wrote: > Hi Anton, > > Datacenter is indeed a resource that needs flexible allocation and management. Except for datacenter, all of the network resources from RAN to CN (include radio unit, router, port, CPU, S-GW etc.) should be appropriately allocated. > > Even for a provider, it is impossible to manage all of these resources just through a single controller/platform, since different domains have quite different technical attributes. RAN, TN, CN must have their own domain controllers. In order to achieve the flexible E2E network slicing, we have to consider the interoperation among domain controllers. At orchestration level - you are doing controller interop. A. > That is, we need to design the std. east-west interfaces. > > > Best regards, > Cristina.qiang > > > -----ÓʼþÔ­¼þ----- > ·¢¼þÈË: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] ´ú±í Anton Ivanov > ·¢ËÍʱ¼ä: 2017Äê3ÔÂ16ÈÕ 15:45 > ÊÕ¼þÈË: netslices@ietf.org > Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [Netslices] Flexibility Requirement > > >>> First of all, a SP network just does not work this way. If it cannot >>> be orchestrated and billed it does not exist. >> Who is saying the opposite? >> >>> Second, flexibility, variable bandwidth, etc - are all billable items. >>> The idea that you can create the means to establish billable items >>> across a provider network without billing, capacity planning and >>> orchestration involved is in the realm of entertaining. Very >>> entertaining indeed. However, entertainment is not a subject for a >>> WGs and RFCs (except the 1st of april ones). >> Again, who said the opposite? >> >> Any feature we can think about would be billable (although sometimes >> not >> billed) or it just does not require any effort. We cannot consider >> other situation. But it is totally different from the need for >> flexibility in network services, and an slicing architecture would >> provide the needed coherence to achieve such flexibility while >> enforcing some compatibility among providers. What is wrong with it? > Cool - please provide a use case which is not covered by the current existing stuff. > > The last set you provided was doable using 1990-es and sub-2000 RFC technology and redone 3 times since 1994 - twice using MPLS (PWE and > L3VPN) and once using L2VPN - to a total of 4 times so far. > > So something that actually needs to be done, is not done at present and is "flexible" as a use case, please. You are failing to provide a single example of "flexible" that has not been done and needs doing. Please do so so we can actually enqueue it for the use case draft. > > I personally do not see anything like this on the network side. It has been done, dusted and does not need redoing for use cases which are sufficiently "common" to become a standard. The only open issues needed to work on are interworking to "resources" where resources are datacenter and leaves governed by other WGs or standard bodies - homenet, 6lopan, nvo3 or (outside IETF) 3GPP. > > A. > >>> A. >> Regards, >> Pedro >> > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Mar 16 02:53:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE039126DD9 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 02:53:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5a5QAOXNUa9a for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 02:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2078126D74 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 02:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DCW94619; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:53:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMI413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.86.210.41) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:53:13 +0000 Received: from SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.158]) by SZXEMI413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.86.210.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 17:53:06 +0800 From: "qiangli (D)" To: Anton Ivanov , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?W05ldHNsaWNlc10gILTwuLQ6ICBGbGV4aWJpbGl0eSBSZXF1aXJlbWVudA==?= Thread-Index: AQHSnjGjdPR4iLw8r0qXxPUq01EAtaGXL8BQ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:53:06 +0000 Message-ID: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.163.138] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090206.58CA608B.0016, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.7.158, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 6678325e49ff00aa4b4d73e642bf36eb Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogICC08Li0OiAgRmxleGliaWxpdHkgUmVx?= =?gb2312?b?dWlyZW1lbnQ=?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 657311272E1 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:12:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UNeRtNj2qnCn for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC5C1126C2F for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coSOB-0006XM-Jg; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:12:11 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coSOB-0001HD-CL; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:12:11 +0000 To: "qiangli (D)" , "netslices@ietf.org" References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:12:11 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiBGbGV4aWJpbGl0eSBS?= =?utf-8?q?equirement?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:12:17 -0000 On 16/03/17 09:53, qiangli (D) wrote: > Please see my reply inline below. > > -----邮件原件----- > å‘件人: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Anton Ivanov > å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2017å¹´3月16æ—¥ 16:45 > 收件人: qiangli (D); netslices@ietf.org > 主题: Re: [Netslices] ç­”å¤: Flexibility Requirement > > On 16/03/17 08:35, qiangli (D) wrote: >> Hi Anton, >> >> Datacenter is indeed a resource that needs flexible allocation and management. Except for datacenter, all of the network resources from RAN to CN (include radio unit, router, port, CPU, S-GW etc.) should be appropriately allocated. >> >> Even for a provider, it is impossible to manage all of these resources just through a single controller/platform, since different domains have quite different technical attributes. RAN, TN, CN must have their own domain controllers. In order to achieve the flexible E2E network slicing, we have to consider the interoperation among domain controllers. > At orchestration level - you are doing controller interop. > > [Cristina] As long as the controller interoperation needs new standards, people couldn't say it is out of our scope. It does not at the lower levels. Controller to controller interfaces are effectively business level interfaces. IBM and friends have chewed up this topic for 4 decades now and trying to reinvent AMQP, ZMQ, SOAP (just a few examples) badly (because it is not our primary domain of expertise) is definitely outside IETF scope. What may be in scope is not the interface, but what the data means on the interface. > In addition to east-west interfaces, NS will also involve new standards in north-south interfaces. We should consider: > 1) how to describe tenants' requirements to controllers > 2) how to present a logical view of NSI to a tenant > 3) tenant should be able to configure their own NSI, then how to deliver the configuration commands to controllers > 4) how to deliver the configuration commands from controllers to underlying network, etc. There MAY BE a role for the IETF in all of that (I am repeating this for the n-th time here) - it is how to model data, how to represent topology for slice use and how to apply it to existing interoperability interfaces in controller-to-controller land. That is also the only place where transport and Layer 1 should be allowed to show up. We are working on the subject by the way (and putting our money where our mouth is) - the draft on one possible interop protocol family was published a few weeks ago: https://trac.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yang-json-rpc-00 , the actual implementation is in ODL. AFAIK, the XML based protocols were being covered by netmod looking at WSDL interworking - you have to ask them where is that at present. ODL afaik generates WSDL, but is it usable for SOAP (and other non-netconf needs) I have no clue - you need to ask someone who works on that. I can find only references in some old slides, no idea where it is. That does need aligning and tying together - the two controllers operate using the same model and same (or compatible) understanding of modelled data. The rest is already covered elsewhere and has been covered for many decades (no need to reinvent the wheel). At that point you may or may not invent a new protocol if you wish (f.e. if you somehow thing you can exchange data between controllers faster than websockets or ZMQ). That is fine as it builds on top of something that is part of our subject matter. Inventing the protocol FIRST however is frankly a no go. At that level nobody cares about a new protocol if there is no data/model interop to start off with. A. > > > A. >> That is, we need to design the std. east-west interfaces. >> >> >> Best regards, >> Cristina.qiang >> >> >> -----邮件原件----- >> å‘件人: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Anton Ivanov >> å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2017å¹´3月16æ—¥ 15:45 >> 收件人: netslices@ietf.org >> 主题: Re: [Netslices] Flexibility Requirement >> >> >>>> First of all, a SP network just does not work this way. If it >>>> cannot be orchestrated and billed it does not exist. >>> Who is saying the opposite? >>> >>>> Second, flexibility, variable bandwidth, etc - are all billable items. >>>> The idea that you can create the means to establish billable items >>>> across a provider network without billing, capacity planning and >>>> orchestration involved is in the realm of entertaining. Very >>>> entertaining indeed. However, entertainment is not a subject for a >>>> WGs and RFCs (except the 1st of april ones). >>> Again, who said the opposite? >>> >>> Any feature we can think about would be billable (although sometimes >>> not >>> billed) or it just does not require any effort. We cannot consider >>> other situation. But it is totally different from the need for >>> flexibility in network services, and an slicing architecture would >>> provide the needed coherence to achieve such flexibility while >>> enforcing some compatibility among providers. What is wrong with it? >> Cool - please provide a use case which is not covered by the current existing stuff. >> >> The last set you provided was doable using 1990-es and sub-2000 RFC >> technology and redone 3 times since 1994 - twice using MPLS (PWE and >> L3VPN) and once using L2VPN - to a total of 4 times so far. >> >> So something that actually needs to be done, is not done at present and is "flexible" as a use case, please. You are failing to provide a single example of "flexible" that has not been done and needs doing. Please do so so we can actually enqueue it for the use case draft. >> >> I personally do not see anything like this on the network side. It has been done, dusted and does not need redoing for use cases which are sufficiently "common" to become a standard. The only open issues needed to work on are interworking to "resources" where resources are datacenter and leaves governed by other WGs or standard bodies - homenet, 6lopan, nvo3 or (outside IETF) 3GPP. >> >> A. >> >>>> A. >>> Regards, >>> Pedro >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Mar 16 03:24:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F135B127735 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:24:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QlS1dpjsqd-l for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2977E127333 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2GAO08N027025; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:24:00 GMT Received: from 950129200 ([176.241.250.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2GANvT8026949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:23:59 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Anton Ivanov'" , "'qiangli \(D\)'" , References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:23:56 -0000 Message-ID: <08bc01d29e3f$6dba2650$492e72f0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHkK8z7ZeqpbpSbP6pgL3mokl8dlgF6JkhNAgn/e78BKaAXBAKwwlb/AqxOr50CJm+GtgElccMLApjpZdoB+f26zwII3qFqAWTw+sMBcGeDEwKF8SErAs/lap8Cg9QpN6B/Gkjw Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-22944.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--2.679-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--2.679-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: 7ySqCuYCpfjMy6K24fisq/HkpkyUphL9QKuv8uQBDjrrlvgy2jbgE7md iv6shqTWRjK0b99KWcpItRaK8RrEBVSd3xC25FnoGAZMT5SLmAkoPUUDFlEi1ZUQzHWBKOFAYID 9Y+Lh/TxTwgcUDJN4BYzE0Pi37NIDGAdnzrnkM4+DGx/OQ1GV8mMVPzx/r2cb+gtHj7OwNO2Ohz Oa6g8KraXrSpHVNr8xRudUz28KXXF+lmSpaIg2yUBOjatiZhJezYZwAKIMxTDmtJwbK8sutWapf b2bPkPeX8IaCmNn6on+4jqTeYqAIK9jgFugizruseEwD1oOm6H9bIg2Dkyp2p6ynLz4TfprpPXM 0lobhrKUTGVAhB5EbQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiBGbGV4aWJpbGl0eSBS?= =?utf-8?q?equirement?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:24:19 -0000 Picking at one point (and so losing context :-) > There MAY BE a role for the IETF in all of that (I am repeating this > for the n-th time here) - it is how to model data, how to represent > topology for slice use Once you are in the business of representing topology, isn't topology = just topology? That is, isn't a graph just a graph no matter to what application you = intend to apply it? I would like to understand how "slice use" of topology differs from "VPN = use" or "TE use" or "capacity planning use" etc. I think understanding that will help me understand what additional work = is needed to make NetSlices a practical project. Thanks, Adrian From nobody Thu Mar 16 03:27:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA7B127333 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:26:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MQ9MBi_5zkXe for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x244.google.com (mail-wr0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA71D127097 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x244.google.com with SMTP id u108so5289877wrb.2 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:26:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=MYPsnezCfwz0lOw5r6S/GkUs8SlbudiqM+goC3xjAP4=; b=h9CXsaw94Ww/c4Ebi90RDT15cYTxpEPSZrRtK6SsPDj6P4xXujMyr4g1Z22h13Uhf2 xbC4eBXr66H5ZDxkyQCTszw20MmvuAvX48TTXP1zmXfqHEJwsSnGlLBs0peajFTO9far iy6A0PqdMtZIdzj/JWRCvjQWjWEFU/5DQztMLhzgqojNAtQTjU7vbvjhdIhw1obQF5tr WL2Ll2Qy077OVcz631R5oKiRrpRRxWH/zJ+26oRkaFQEz+zIwTXF72bqyITgHTJJraje JGF5Wpj5YMGir3msFJTxjh0TNeIW1OFcvP5Yhu5eGlQqX3Kl4sqM6QwUQBMc2rUdfhXu vz6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=MYPsnezCfwz0lOw5r6S/GkUs8SlbudiqM+goC3xjAP4=; b=EQiFPcc/7aGiiC82id3EML0DUUDfyoN0fO3JFPej4heKyWGJ6Hrd0l10B2ZwGYsWJh E+DF5Q+adKH/nk4orfSC/aUDtZEDn7NbQflGBFWBDbnBrOJUzNm8kXnGO70HSl28yx59 QdXzjoLk7/LmFxQGygT8stnLmCcOu5wnwByjZK7cgvLXGYLMGq4kxzpZ9LoTpbLJVB/u K7IL3V8QyQ+6Z1KIQf0+IOD/AYd2lQX/W8YjKNxgsnj8/hFnDYMZl2DOpYOy0snM8fKl 02fBRUPORLrnJ2Hp4zMmDYJ56rz3tiDT56+HzSzI3tfqz7ogZxBlD4mJRNwPnGV/d7np oP0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1bugnfEqsX9u27v/JPYwDptj9uiYgce1IOZ4sNIPo8xiyx6XwiBO4WeGJoV0aDzg== X-Received: by 10.223.134.44 with SMTP id 41mr7328715wrv.26.1489660016495; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:4084:1254:cd8c:9691:824d:cdad? ([2001:420:4084:1254:cd8c:9691:824d:cdad]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m83sm3728159wmc.33.2017.03.16.03.26.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Giles Heron In-Reply-To: <08bc01d29e3f$6dba2650$492e72f0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:26:54 +0000 Cc: Anton Ivanov , "qiangli (D)" , netslices@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <08bc01d29e3f$6dba2650$492e72f0$@olddog.co.uk> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBGbGV4aWJpbGl0eSBSZXF1aXJlbWVu?= =?utf-8?q?t?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:27:00 -0000 On 16 Mar 2017, at 10:23, Adrian Farrel wrote: >=20 > Picking at one point (and so losing context :-) >=20 >> There MAY BE a role for the IETF in all of that (I am repeating this >> for the n-th time here) - it is how to model data, how to represent >> topology for slice use >=20 > Once you are in the business of representing topology, isn't topology = just topology? > That is, isn't a graph just a graph no matter to what application you = intend to apply it? yes. > I would like to understand how "slice use" of topology differs from = "VPN use" or "TE use" or "capacity planning use" etc. > I think understanding that will help me understand what additional = work is needed to make NetSlices a practical project. right. The I2RS topology YANG model (to use one example) is simply a = list of nodes and a list of links. You can augment that with = whatever=E2=80=99s required for your specific protocol/application. It = *might* be that NetSlices needs to augment it. But yes, that=E2=80=99s = far from clear at this point - and we need to start with some real = use-cases (i.e. not pipe-dreams) in order to figure that sort of thing = out... Giles =20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Mar 16 03:28:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4463E127698 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:28:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.796, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=surreyac.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19ZQ7NSIqfab for ; 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCk5ldHNsaWNlcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCk5ldHNsaWNl c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRzbGlj ZXMNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpOZXRz bGljZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpOZXRzbGljZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYu b3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0c2xpY2VzDQo= From nobody Thu Mar 16 03:29:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC402127735 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:29:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OhVIvd_OdYh8 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A99E9127698 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coSf8-0006Y5-Cl for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:29:42 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coSf8-0001Zk-5V for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:29:42 +0000 To: netslices@ietf.org References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <08bc01d29e3f$6dba2650$492e72f0$@olddog.co.uk> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:29:42 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <08bc01d29e3f$6dba2650$492e72f0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IEZsZXhpYmlsaXR5IFJl?= =?utf-8?q?quirement?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:29:45 -0000 On 16/03/17 10:23, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Picking at one point (and so losing context :-) > >> There MAY BE a role for the IETF in all of that (I am repeating this >> for the n-th time here) - it is how to model data, how to represent >> topology for slice use > Once you are in the business of representing topology, isn't topology just topology? Indeed. > That is, isn't a graph just a graph no matter to what application you intend to apply it? Indeed ^2. > > I would like to understand how "slice use" of topology differs from "VPN use" or "TE use" or "capacity planning use" etc. I do not think it does, but it is difficult to see because of all the fog emanating from various pipe dreams. > I think understanding that will help me understand what additional work is needed to make NetSlices a practical project. +1 A. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > From nobody Thu Mar 16 03:32:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9D112785F for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:32:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id juMnApBKQHv6 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8A23127698 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coShk-0006YN-6l for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:32:24 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coShj-0001d2-WA for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:32:24 +0000 To: netslices@ietf.org References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:32:21 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IEZsZXhpYmlsaXR5IFJl?= =?utf-8?q?quirement?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:32:28 -0000 On 16/03/17 10:28, d.lake@surrey.ac.uk wrote: > "how to describe tenants' requirements to controllers" > > Isn't what you are describing essentially "Layer 8" requirements ? In other words, my desire as a customer for outcome from the organisation(s) I buy service(s) from? I agree that in the market there is a need for me to be able to describe the outcome I want and have that built across the many different components which need to be constructed to do that, but I suspect that if we organised the industry better (differently?) we would be able to do that given the protocols we have. > > The issue is that it is not in the interests of an SP to work with, say, an OTT provider (and vice-versa) because they are both chasing the same, decreasing, revenue stream. Unfortunately, some of the architectures we have (not the protocols - I think we have those) institutionalise these silos - 3GPP SAE is a case-in-point. > > I'm actually starting to think that "Network Slicing" is a misnomer. I think what we are actually trying to do is provide an even greater level of separation between application and network than we currently have (an expansion of the NetFlix et al model) but this time trying to ensure that there is some tie-in to the transport layer(s). > > There is definitely a revenue sharing/settlement piece missing here but that, surely, is out-of-scope of an IETF WG? Bingo. Let's keep it to what may be in-scope: topology, interworking to networks covered to other WGs, data modelling, etc. Layer 8 and 9 requirements are best left to marketing and legislation. They do not belong in an engineering forum. A. > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of qiangli (D) > Sent: 16 March 2017 09:53 > To: Anton Ivanov ; netslices@ietf.org > Subject: [Netslices] ç­”å¤: ç­”å¤: Flexibility Requirement > > Please see my reply inline below. > > -----邮件原件----- > å‘件人: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Anton Ivanov > å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2017å¹´3月16æ—¥ 16:45 > 收件人: qiangli (D); netslices@ietf.org > 主题: Re: [Netslices] ç­”å¤: Flexibility Requirement > > On 16/03/17 08:35, qiangli (D) wrote: >> Hi Anton, >> >> Datacenter is indeed a resource that needs flexible allocation and management. Except for datacenter, all of the network resources from RAN to CN (include radio unit, router, port, CPU, S-GW etc.) should be appropriately allocated. >> >> Even for a provider, it is impossible to manage all of these resources just through a single controller/platform, since different domains have quite different technical attributes. RAN, TN, CN must have their own domain controllers. In order to achieve the flexible E2E network slicing, we have to consider the interoperation among domain controllers. > At orchestration level - you are doing controller interop. > > [Cristina] As long as the controller interoperation needs new standards, people couldn't say it is out of our scope. > In addition to east-west interfaces, NS will also involve new standards in north-south interfaces. We should consider: > 1) how to describe tenants' requirements to controllers > 2) how to present a logical view of NSI to a tenant > 3) tenant should be able to configure their own NSI, then how to deliver the configuration commands to controllers > 4) how to deliver the configuration commands from controllers to underlying network, etc. > > > A. >> That is, we need to design the std. east-west interfaces. >> >> >> Best regards, >> Cristina.qiang >> >> >> -----邮件原件----- >> å‘件人: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Anton Ivanov >> å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2017å¹´3月16æ—¥ 15:45 >> 收件人: netslices@ietf.org >> 主题: Re: [Netslices] Flexibility Requirement >> >> >>>> First of all, a SP network just does not work this way. If it >>>> cannot be orchestrated and billed it does not exist. >>> Who is saying the opposite? >>> >>>> Second, flexibility, variable bandwidth, etc - are all billable items. >>>> The idea that you can create the means to establish billable items >>>> across a provider network without billing, capacity planning and >>>> orchestration involved is in the realm of entertaining. Very >>>> entertaining indeed. However, entertainment is not a subject for a >>>> WGs and RFCs (except the 1st of april ones). >>> Again, who said the opposite? >>> >>> Any feature we can think about would be billable (although sometimes >>> not >>> billed) or it just does not require any effort. We cannot consider >>> other situation. But it is totally different from the need for >>> flexibility in network services, and an slicing architecture would >>> provide the needed coherence to achieve such flexibility while >>> enforcing some compatibility among providers. What is wrong with it? >> Cool - please provide a use case which is not covered by the current existing stuff. >> >> The last set you provided was doable using 1990-es and sub-2000 RFC >> technology and redone 3 times since 1994 - twice using MPLS (PWE and >> L3VPN) and once using L2VPN - to a total of 4 times so far. >> >> So something that actually needs to be done, is not done at present and is "flexible" as a use case, please. You are failing to provide a single example of "flexible" that has not been done and needs doing. Please do so so we can actually enqueue it for the use case draft. >> >> I personally do not see anything like this on the network side. It has been done, dusted and does not need redoing for use cases which are sufficiently "common" to become a standard. The only open issues needed to work on are interworking to "resources" where resources are datacenter and leaves governed by other WGs or standard bodies - homenet, 6lopan, nvo3 or (outside IETF) 3GPP. >> >> A. >> >>>> A. >>> Regards, >>> Pedro >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Mar 16 04:16:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A0F1289B5 for ; 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[213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 94sm5832457wrl.50.2017.03.16.04.34.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:34:30 -0700 (PDT) To: Network Slices From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:34:30 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Another approach to the problem X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:34:34 -0000 I have been thinking quite hard about the ongoing debate between those looking to design and deploy NS, and those with experience in deploying orchestrated networks. I wonder if we need to address this from a different angle. Fundamentally this is about a customer buying a service from a provider, and the provider spinning up all the components of that service, and the question being asked is whether this is a new business model supported by new technology of an existing business model for which we have deployed technology. I wonder whether we might make more progress by starting with the business architecture? I think that this means building a model with provisioning requests flowing in one direction and invoices flowing in the other. I know that this is unusual in the IETF but I wonder if it would enable us to shed more light on the problem. - Stewart From nobody Thu Mar 16 04:50:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1215F129426 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:50:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4RHWVDuUdur8 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2764129421 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coTvL-0006af-OI; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:50:31 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coTvL-0002wx-Gv; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:50:31 +0000 To: GENG Liang , "netslices@ietf.org" References: <6a08d29f-2126-b478-a266-c08f5b11fd37@kot-begemot.co.uk> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <1386b268-def1-0267-4ba9-6534d74a7e44@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:50:31 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CDA96B2FAAC7D717BCBDDB1A" X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Draft on Network Slicing Architecture X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:50:39 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CDA96B2FAAC7D717BCBDDB1A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 16/03/17 11:16, GENG Liang wrote: > > Hi Anton, > > Thank you for reading the draft. > > The purpose of the architecture draft is to provide a very initial > conceptual view of network slicing for the community to have rather > focused discussions. I am happy to see this happening. > As in the draft at present, it is presently mostly at layer 8, the few things below that layer fall outside IETF scope. > However, I don't think using terminologies from another standard > organization does any harm at this stage to IETF work, particually if > that may actually help people to understand the basic concepts. It is > also not very helpful to refer to the MPLS-TP drama or using the term > "abusing IETF" at this stage based on non-technical assumptions of > possibilities of duplicated works. It is subjected to the community to > judge what belongs to where, and the discussions at the moment are yet > to approach that stage. > It is a technical assumption. I read your document strictly through technical "goggles" and I see 70%+ 3GPP duplication with the remainder at layer 8 or above. When I see something that is neither I will change my mind. Before that - sorry, I do not see this as anything different but a prelude to another MPLS-TP style saga. That is where this is going and no thanks, we have seen that movie from the front row. > Technically, it would also be good to define what you mean by the term > "orchestration" since people may have different understandings. Hence > the statement of "any orchestration is outside the scope of IETF" is > also subjected to futher clarification according to a mutual > understanding of "orchestration". Network slicing itself of course > includes the construction and arrangement of different network > elements/resources. However, this level of "orchestration" is not > enough for a dynamically configurable set of network resource, or a > network slice instance, for a set of requirements for service guarantees. > Correct, it is not. In order for the orchestration or as it is usually called today controller(s), to form that dynamically configurable set of network resources it needs to possess the correct information and it may use means of transmitting of that information which we formulate (or have formulated already). That is in scope and some of it is already covered by other WGs. It is mostly missing from your draft. > For instance, a customer may want a slice with requirements of certain > BW, latency, security, power consumption or provisioning abilities and > guarantees. Given that a network slice instance is properly > established by some sort of "Brilliant Orchestration", it is still > subjected to the network equipments to mapping these > network-slice-instance-specific requirements to chip-level or > system-level capabilities. Remember there are inevitably co-existence > issues with traffics flowing on non-sliced resources with no > guarantees what so ever. > We have been chewing on that particular aspect of networking for the best part of two decades. In order to state that there is a new problem here in the first place, and that problem falls into IETF scope, we need a corresponding use case which shows that there is a problem which cannot be solved using today's technology. I have asked several times for this and I am yet to see one. > Moreover, the intention of providing network slicing is also to > improve the capability of network customization. It is true that > existing technology like VPN can provide dedicated connections, but > what is missing is the ability for the network to dynamically mapping > those technologies to customized (and frequently changed) > requirements, and then, back to the guarantee issue, mapping to > equipement capabilities. > That, when you translate it into engineering terms, equates to modelling the network, representing the guarantees, representing the change and representing the equipment capabilities as well as moving these around in an interop manner between controllers. That, I have said a few times - it's clearly in-scope. It is core netmod and i2rs material. A. > > Best wishes > > Liang > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Liang GENG > China Mobile Research Institute > > *From:* Anton Ivanov > *Date:* 2017-03-16 16:34 > *To:* netslices > *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] Draft on Network Slicing Architecture > 3.1.2. > > 1. Implies Orchestration > 2. Mobile specific > 3. Does not cover home network resources > 4. Does not cover datacenter resources properly. "may require > cloud resources" is not an acceptable definition going towards > standard - it is marketing. The data center in IETF is mostly NVO3 > and to a lesser extent L2VPN. What is the interworking level and > function. > 5. Has the dirty T word. We are not doing Transport and Layer 1 > except as an information/topology model. > > 3.1.3 - Same as above. 3GPP-fest belongs in 3GPP. I do not see a > point of repeating 3GPP work in IETF. We already had one > multi-year soap opera with MPLS-TP and ITU work duplication, no > thanks, we do not need another. If we are to work on something it > should not be a duplicate. > > 3.1.5. That is literally a description of orchestration via an API > gateway. Why is this anywhere near IETF? > > 3.1.6. Orchestration. Again. There is no IETF architecture here. > There is no network architecture, there is no interconnect > architecture, there is no interface architecture, there is no > protocols, nothing. > > 4.1. Physical Layer. Again - same as 3.1.5. What is it doing here? > 4.2. Same > > This in first read does not belong. > > A) It includes Layer 1. > B) It includes orchestration and has little or no networking to > speak of > C) It does not specify any problem scope which the IETF works on > and is good at and it also provides standard body work duplication > environment. > > Creating a duplicated standards environment is a fantastic way to > maintain 5 years of subtly non-compliant implementations, because > "the standard is not finalized". While I recall quite well how and > who used this during the MPLS-TP IETF/ITU debacle, I do not see > why we should be supporting an attempt to repeat this. In fact we > should be explicitly against abusing IETF as a standards body for > this particular purpose. > > A. > > > On 15/03/17 03:55, GENG Liang wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> We have submitted a draft on the architechture of Network >> Slicing. You can find the draft from the following link. >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geng-netslices-architecture/ >> >> This draft briefly describes a systemetic top-level view of >> Network Slicing and defines some basic roles in the >> architechture. We also identifies some key technical issues that >> Network slicing should possibly address as the work progress. >> >> We are planning to present this document in Chicago. Comments are >> extremely welcome. >> >> Best wishes >> Liang >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Liang GENG >> China Mobile Research Institute >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > --------------CDA96B2FAAC7D717BCBDDB1A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 16/03/17 11:16, GENG Liang wrote:

Hi Anton,

 

Thank you for reading the draft.

 

The purpose of the architecture draft is to provide a very initial conceptual view of network slicing for the community to have rather focused discussions. I am happy to see this happening.


As in the draft at present, it is presently mostly at layer 8, the few things below that layer fall outside IETF scope.

 

However, I don't think using terminologies from another standard organization does any harm at this stage to IETF work, particually if that may actually help people to understand the basic concepts. It is also not very helpful to refer to the MPLS-TP drama or using the term "abusing IETF" at this stage based on non-technical assumptions of possibilities of duplicated works. It is subjected to the community to judge what belongs to where, and the discussions at the moment are yet to approach that stage.


It is a technical assumption. I read your document strictly through technical "goggles" and I see 70%+ 3GPP duplication with the remainder at layer 8 or above.

When I see something that is neither I will change my mind. Before that - sorry, I do not see this as anything different but a prelude to another MPLS-TP style saga. That is where this is going and no thanks, we have seen that movie from the front row.

 

Technically, it would also be good to define what you mean by the term "orchestration" since people may have different understandings. Hence the statement of "any orchestration is outside the scope of IETF" is also subjected to futher clarification according to a mutual understanding of "orchestration". Network slicing itself of course includes the construction and arrangement of different network elements/resources. However, this level of "orchestration" is not enough for a dynamically configurable set of network resource, or a network slice instance, for a set of requirements for service guarantees.


Correct, it is not.

In order for the orchestration or as it is usually called today controller(s), to form that dynamically configurable set of network resources it needs to possess the correct information and it may use means of transmitting of that information which we formulate (or have formulated already).

That is in scope and some of it is already covered by other WGs. It is mostly missing  from your draft.

 

For instance, a customer may want a slice with requirements of certain BW, latency, security, power consumption or provisioning abilities and guarantees. Given that a network slice instance is properly established by some sort of "Brilliant Orchestration", it is still subjected to the network equipments to mapping these network-slice-instance-specific requirements to chip-level or system-level capabilities. Remember there are inevitably co-existence issues with traffics flowing on non-sliced resources with no guarantees what so ever.


We have been chewing on that particular aspect of networking for the best part of two decades. In order to state that there is a new problem here in the first place, and that problem falls into IETF scope, we need a corresponding use case which shows that there is a problem which cannot be solved using today's technology. I have asked several times for this and I am yet to see one.

Moreover, the intention of providing network slicing is also to improve the capability of network customization. It is true that existing technology like VPN can provide dedicated connections, but what is missing is the ability for the network to dynamically mapping those technologies to customized (and frequently changed) requirements, and then, back to the guarantee issue, mapping to equipement capabilities.


That, when you translate it into engineering terms, equates to  modelling the network, representing the guarantees, representing the change and representing the equipment capabilities as well as moving these around in an interop manner between controllers.  That, I have said a few times - it's clearly in-scope. It is core netmod and i2rs material.

A.


Best wishes

Liang



 
  

Liang GENG
China Mobile Research Institute
 
From: Anton Ivanov
Date: 2017-03-16 16:34
To: netslices
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Draft on Network Slicing Architecture
3.1.2.

1. Implies Orchestration
2. Mobile specific
3. Does not cover home network resources
4. Does not cover datacenter resources properly. "may require cloud resources" is not an acceptable definition going towards standard - it is marketing. The data center in IETF is mostly NVO3 and to a lesser extent L2VPN. What is the interworking level and function.
5. Has the dirty T word. We are not doing Transport and Layer 1 except as an information/topology model.

3.1.3 - Same as above. 3GPP-fest belongs in 3GPP. I do not see a point of repeating 3GPP work in IETF. We already had one multi-year soap opera with MPLS-TP and ITU work duplication, no thanks, we do not need another. If we are to work on something it should not be a duplicate.

3.1.5. That is literally a description of orchestration via an API gateway. Why is this anywhere near IETF?

3.1.6. Orchestration. Again. There is no IETF architecture here. There is no network architecture, there is no interconnect architecture, there is no interface architecture, there is no protocols, nothing.

4.1. Physical Layer. Again - same as 3.1.5. What is it doing here?
4.2. Same

This in first read does not belong.

A) It includes Layer 1.
B) It includes orchestration and has little or no networking to speak of
C) It does not specify any problem scope which the IETF works on and is good at and it also provides standard body work duplication environment.

Creating a duplicated standards environment is a fantastic way to maintain 5 years of subtly non-compliant implementations, because "the standard is not finalized". While I recall quite well how and who used this during the MPLS-TP IETF/ITU debacle, I do not see why we should be supporting an attempt to repeat this. In fact we should be explicitly against abusing IETF as a standards body for this particular purpose.

A.


On 15/03/17 03:55, GENG Liang wrote:
Hi all,

We have submitted a draft on the architechture of Network Slicing. You can find the draft from the following link.


This draft briefly describes a systemetic top-level view of Network Slicing and defines some basic roles in the architechture. We also identifies some key technical issues that Network slicing should possibly address as the work progress.

We are planning to present this document in Chicago. Comments are extremely welcome. 

Best wishes
Liang

Liang GENG
China Mobile Research Institute


_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices



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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Mar 2017 11:50:55.9172 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 6b902693-1074-40aa-9e21-d89446a2ebb5 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0601MB2283 X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: HE1PR0601MB2283.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com X-OriginatorOrg: surrey.ac.uk X-CrossPremisesHeadersPromoted: EXHY021v.surrey.ac.uk X-CrossPremisesHeadersFiltered: EXHY021v.surrey.ac.uk Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Another approach to the problem X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:51:02 -0000 Stewart Interesting - I had EXACTLY the same thought. There IS a business issue here which is hurting the SPs who, in-turn, are b= eing asked to invest in order to support more consumption from the OTTs. My thought is that IETF (note - E) is the wrong place to be addressing this= for the reasons Anton has been succinctly addressing. Other "network" industries also struggle with this same revenue settlement/= investment/OTT problem to different extents (the two which come to mind imm= ediately are rail and electricity supply). Could this be an IAB study group of some sort? David -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Br= yant Sent: 16 March 2017 11:35 To: Network Slices Subject: [Netslices] Another approach to the problem I have been thinking quite hard about the ongoing debate between those look= ing to design and deploy NS, and those with experience in deploying orchest= rated networks. I wonder if we need to address this from a different angle. Fundamentally this is about a customer buying a service from a provider, an= d the provider spinning up all the components of that service, and the ques= tion being asked is whether this is a new business model supported by new t= echnology of an existing business model for which we have deployed technolo= gy. I wonder whether we might make more progress by starting with the business = architecture? I think that this means building a model with provisioning requests flowing= in one direction and invoices flowing in the other. I know that this is unusual in the IETF but I wonder if it would enable us = to shed more light on the problem. - Stewart _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Mar 16 04:52:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1509129431 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:52:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nO7nm8Yn7MUl for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66D3712943B for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id 196so2978332wmm.1 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:52:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=lR0rWZcNQdv0/rohyZzE7dB21O+c8cB7YKcILZ/dueE=; b=SlnPo/cvGyBgGdGjYmijMZBmU0EXfh1NtcoLZ7QfcWV8XWVq7yeXCAhuEq8DvVQY+T 2FftclOQ/HyPb+td5Md9rIDmq/SESVe0m7UuzBi/+FAu3W21u042mwU7iYrS2ECEfKlK giB9qkSIuqhIwowA4+8lV71V38YisXo1Eg2814Y6BULInpW+jvKpLSF0xsStOIYDw0AP DWJelMYu45KJrmNFFl58V/fleu9izglgzqpZ8euTM9W8GxsynggrsnBpXW1RE2mQ9nbZ 6r8ZcioEe7LlPVUAqaCg9hP3bZ0mnwe5R+D1lKFOZcN1+hW0AYVHsbwtPGjeMVJnHWsD uc0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=lR0rWZcNQdv0/rohyZzE7dB21O+c8cB7YKcILZ/dueE=; b=rtPqZNrfD0QL+rgvF03jvYmYsCN2C41e+x6DjOYMWdii7uR+OBHMbVZhTBzS+4OKQ7 n3pl7IJnt73zeCp2r/pIzudEAVa17JX6kpZRzDoAtxSTroxt4OfITqxFGr2pS2x5DJvC EPl2htrEgZLGi7/fT++AauKEQMc4h8pZlt7VNpmSj0U2haBK4yI1l+g+ZfMwElWK8A6n +8Kx8LNE2ERR/c0Znq31Q3hoiiHGZ7SHk/vVZVbzZq9GCeJ4x3ptS1/6jiNWZ4SrH74k w+QgNkUpU/vTJypce3PhKau8zdSjfKXMvpmgic4VWak/rsnBj+EMV5qbha18EoPAq7Gc qvpA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1guT4WwSt/gXZGRIc2kOP02CZw38Sr5G6Usq3VcA0tkHOHqRSIgY9HEGxHBHegRw== X-Received: by 10.28.86.214 with SMTP id k205mr8234567wmb.26.1489665163922; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 78sm4005796wms.14.2017.03.16.04.52.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:52:43 -0700 (PDT) To: Giles Heron , adrian@olddog.co.uk References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <08bc01d29e3f$6dba2650$492e72f0$@olddog.co.uk> Cc: Anton Ivanov , netslices@ietf.org, "qiangli (D)" From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: <8d6735cc-cec1-fc74-1bcf-4fd6c12588ab@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:52:42 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C9509D414C68613A48D2B2DA" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBGbGV4aWJpbGl0eSBSZXF1aXJlbWVu?= =?utf-8?q?t?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:52:50 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C9509D414C68613A48D2B2DA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 16/03/2017 10:26, Giles Heron wrote: > The I2RS topology YANG model (to use one example) is simply a list of nodes and a list of links. You can augment that with whatever’s required for your specific protocol/application. It*might* be that NetSlices needs to augment it. Giles, I suppose it depends on what you mean by nodes and links, because you these days you need classic network nodes and links, but you also need service functions and compute power to run them. Stewart --------------C9509D414C68613A48D2B2DA Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On 16/03/2017 10:26, Giles Heron wrote:
The I2RS topology YANG model (to use one example) is simply a list of nodes and a list of links.   You can augment that with whatever’s required for your specific protocol/application.   It *might* be that NetSlices needs to augment it.

Giles,

I suppose it depends on what you mean by nodes and links, because you
these days you need classic network nodes and links, but you also need
service functions and compute power to run them.

Stewart
--------------C9509D414C68613A48D2B2DA-- From nobody Thu Mar 16 04:55:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07CC712943B for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:55:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9X4iB2kn2n2q for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x233.google.com (mail-wr0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5078F129432 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x233.google.com with SMTP id l37so30285535wrc.1 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:55:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rbsGNOu4LRgL9phS5IjLzt7SaFsunyzQFFTbIc059W0=; b=PiMgqMNeOCcMpDyQON7WYigxIdSXaEIcts1tJszGWk8pVfQ0dEi7MJuahreyE4YTU0 c5nk2E04pYosTKlSpGE3jmwBYpCrQES3o5IQnYYNHhMvjTBYYpi5QjR+trVRiGPVmI4B 8uHngwWdCL/kRzYgb9cKqpQJeKIGsWBerZuHgPWNsTtdp3K/y3kM651MpSazcvX3nBnr yKBTXCUYt3gyA2sRcEL5o9NTKCuDndqGsSWhCAKUPthPUk7O5fbH463AYkshBwkFpFKV jEvWZ55DDpvPLTquj+QdfMXdEdzibvM3aOLZbCBjPWi+tviiR0iX7No8KHZyuKzVEqpX V64Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rbsGNOu4LRgL9phS5IjLzt7SaFsunyzQFFTbIc059W0=; b=OhSqoGIAu31VQhInruwnUoXDJYbZ0mTm5TM+SV6L4R+kZ73Yv0BvmuutXe71ytBFn1 TVVC09KEbID63EWlrpzz/JTQ/cH2/neNkn/SRLRS+T+Ef/G7H+gOELxRIMNjzHZ65x0M 5UiR80QXnW/U3zkxl8BJpDJMC7yAQXE6ejqK49jspakE9Z5YB1pgido+Xu4cwWyaXAXh u3xwlXR+5LkpajniFizFKbM92Qh9mFjo0nl/eA68iZmKJ1+Q3f5sB0FV6vtjFGWXIAE+ t8cWz2ZmJsiYyhkdoU6XXM+UH5N9QmofQTrF80x3riw5xXJZp+Fr0/+06aP+YTGwuEui 3JOA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H20wj9oWVvKozQhF3fb7Oo26M5ylFw8N5xfRvQcXMKhl3o8qw7aM4TWV+CeATIncQ== X-Received: by 10.223.175.81 with SMTP id z75mr7657814wrc.3.1489665340781; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y4sm4046598wmy.5.2017.03.16.04.55.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:55:40 -0700 (PDT) To: d.lake@surrey.ac.uk, Network Slices References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:55:40 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IEZsZXhpYmlsaXR5IFJl?= =?utf-8?q?quirement?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:55:44 -0000 On 16/03/2017 10:28, d.lake@surrey.ac.uk wrote: > "how to describe tenants' requirements to controllers" > > Isn't what you are describing essentially "Layer 8" requirements ? In other words, my desire as a customer for outcome from the organisation(s) I buy service(s) from? I agree that in the market there is a need for me to be able to describe the outcome I want and have that built across the many different components which need to be constructed to do that, but I suspect that if we organised the industry better (differently?) we would be able to do that given the protocols we have. > > The issue is that it is not in the interests of an SP to work with, say, an OTT provider (and vice-versa) because they are both chasing the same, decreasing, revenue stream. Unfortunately, some of the architectures we have (not the protocols - I think we have those) institutionalise these silos - 3GPP SAE is a case-in-point. > > I'm actually starting to think that "Network Slicing" is a misnomer. I think what we are actually trying to do is provide an even greater level of separation between application and network than we currently have (an expansion of the NetFlix et al model) but this time trying to ensure that there is some tie-in to the transport layer(s). > > There is definitely a revenue sharing/settlement piece missing here but that, surely, is out-of-scope of an IETF WG? Hi David It may be outside IETF scope, but I think a better understanding of it might help us resolve the questions we are debating on this list. - Stewart From nobody Thu Mar 16 04:59:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67520129439 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:59:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NnS8v0pmfqZn for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x242.google.com (mail-wr0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 732EC1293EB for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x242.google.com with SMTP id g10so5617665wrg.0 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:59:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=9GtGgGZgC58LR7IZg4hwSoOYbXwvG6gbP7bWLvU98bo=; b=Wps5JBtBjPLxzMYK/qauA+Ug8ckmKbYTmhpoZdEonht4Iv38L8aa/hC+0k35gVrBMC dGO+qUeMV9IQ7n4YcHJ15MQ/z5mb3cGaSx2ILGbC33z17DCcBXgvCPFFeIOapWEfL16r 4UwzjTRqiNteAM7z6wOS2PPkIxcNhqjYi13rvdNF4mCk66mtlwqoHjA3NrQRYnpqc5+u Q7rsqsJ6iEghuJ8MBRaXNqOjLYBk2FkCrv5C/Lups1paQ3I7lUg+5/VcTThlMGXXyzhI 1/Z0MA+HA6ZqBqzIcqfCb3l6uxmlU52BQwOqTchHTQUwfcutgrO8IJ7KesbrRBdgZwEi JwKQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=9GtGgGZgC58LR7IZg4hwSoOYbXwvG6gbP7bWLvU98bo=; b=tyTMDREVEoKpqA+gmmGtVbNoRxxyJtigge4s+UPY/WYXtIokZAaBAahLPBff2wTIEg ZKDoULXTnf+41avS222zZ3Hfp2AdJw0/l1Nxe2x93OVX4H6B8oVLaCoZGSP3WqJ8kwHI hmWnRZl4Xd9Hkehn5p+e+LSoaYrREw8/1w1L3ddugmM50UMo8gvLVRpcNKP7tegVwBR/ 13O8ZLbH/Cam3v08THnW1hWnKVm+3Ft8FvFOD0X6ODN2mhSwMyXI+eMAyA+Dy57M7Sfs sCQ9ArgRXacpfntkqhgwZzQtSsV1B47nHu/stGnNlgbUXwSMEfDDLFjDvLdg7qgY6OAm wORw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H3XG3CgHJKRPaTvTyo0pRul+J9RxWVZFRbupx8BpbaOI6iMSP4xU7mP/JwPYC3pew== X-Received: by 10.223.128.202 with SMTP id 68mr7891518wrl.108.1489665548053; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:4084:1254:cd8c:9691:824d:cdad? ([2001:420:4084:1254:cd8c:9691:824d:cdad]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v186sm4044766wmv.2.2017.03.16.04.59.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Mar 2017 04:59:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Giles Heron Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2DC80443-A19F-4CD6-8F61-E2A5826BBBB9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:59:05 +0000 In-Reply-To: <8d6735cc-cec1-fc74-1bcf-4fd6c12588ab@gmail.com> Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, Anton Ivanov , netslices@ietf.org, "qiangli (D)" To: Stewart Bryant References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <08bc01d29e3f$6dba2650$492e72f0$@olddog.co.uk> <8d6735cc-cec1-fc74-1bcf-4fd6c12588ab@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Flexibility Requirement X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:59:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2DC80443-A19F-4CD6-8F61-E2A5826BBBB9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 16 Mar 2017, at 11:52, Stewart Bryant = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 16/03/2017 10:26, Giles Heron wrote: >> The I2RS topology YANG model (to use one example) is simply a list of = nodes and a list of links. You can augment that with whatever=E2=80=99s = required for your specific protocol/application. It *might* be that = NetSlices needs to augment it. >=20 > Giles, >=20 > I suppose it depends on what you mean by nodes and links, because you=20= > these days you need classic network nodes and links, but you also need=20= > service functions and compute power to run them. >=20 > Stewart well - it=E2=80=99s up to the user of the model to define what nodes and = links mean to them. There=E2=80=99s no assumption that a =E2=80=9Cnode=E2= =80=9D is a router or that a =E2=80=9Clink=E2=80=9D is a piece of fibre. Giles= --Apple-Mail=_2DC80443-A19F-4CD6-8F61-E2A5826BBBB9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On 16 Mar 2017, at 11:52, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:

=20 =20



On 16/03/2017 10:26, Giles Heron = wrote:
The I2RS topology YANG model (to use one =
example) is simply a list of nodes and a list of links.   You can =
augment that with whatever=E2=80=99s required for your specific =
protocol/application.   It *might* be that NetSlices needs to augment =
it.

Giles,

I suppose it depends on what you mean by nodes and links, because you
these days you need classic network nodes and links, but you also need
service functions and compute power to run them.

Stewart

well - it=E2=80=99= s up to the user of the model to define what nodes and links mean to = them.  There=E2=80=99s no assumption that a =E2=80=9Cnode=E2=80=9D = is a router or that a =E2=80=9Clink=E2=80=9D is a piece of = fibre.

Giles
= --Apple-Mail=_2DC80443-A19F-4CD6-8F61-E2A5826BBBB9-- From nobody Thu Mar 16 05:01:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE511129447 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:01:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3XT6wgzS5ml8 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3E86129444 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coU5R-0006bD-GZ for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:00:57 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coU5R-000370-9a for netslices@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:00:57 +0000 To: netslices@ietf.org References: From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <98bc6edc-0a30-741c-2b27-3b91d45b928a@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:00:54 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Another approach to the problem X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:01:01 -0000 On 16/03/17 11:34, Stewart Bryant wrote: > > I have been thinking quite hard about the ongoing debate between those > looking to design and deploy NS, and those with experience in > deploying orchestrated networks. > > I wonder if we need to address this from a different angle. > > Fundamentally this is about a customer buying a service from a > provider, and the provider spinning up all the components of that > service, and the question being asked is whether this is a new > business model supported by new technology of an existing business > model for which we have deployed technology. Existing business model - inter-provider OSS interworking + activation to match. Some of us have been there and written it before including QoS/Guarantee interworking at the border between providers. I count at least 2 people I know who have built this on this list (I am sure there are more). > > I wonder whether we might make more progress by starting with the > business architecture? If it is an existing business model which some of us have built and deplotyed as far back as 2007 (at least myself) and 3GPP has just awoken to it - why should we redo it? I said in one of my first emails that 3GPP has a phenomenal talent for digging out archaeological artefacts and presenting them like the newest thing around, so we can suffer from them for decades. This is just one more example. There is definitely work needed to improve it and in all my comments I am looking at it strictly from the perspective of: 1. What work needs to be done at OSS/BSS/NMS level for making the existing model work easier and more "out of the box" - models, interop, etc. 2. What network bits and pieces are missing - IMHO we are missing boundary interop here and there. A. > > I think that this means building a model with provisioning requests > flowing in one direction and invoices flowing in the other. > > I know that this is unusual in the IETF but I wonder if it would > enable us to shed more light on the problem. > > - Stewart > > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > From nobody Thu Mar 16 05:05:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E15E212944F for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:05:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qru1_Glc2rCh for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com (mail-wr0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 459A712944B for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id g10so30398917wrg.2 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:05:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tZrkhQQu8BC6nXTumJMASl1FmY+VB3mKEyo7xb0bE2A=; b=l0CMpaujtNimAwCCz1yomRPAuSVp1qdwbDPj+6hkiELvnxKEHu/6IFqyF5PXPrT+SQ mWGlbpk29GBh7JM3wZr9iFzzFxS/yJcH1toFAibMflFDRudAcfg6H8js8MZzs3KvfNoa 2VwYc7IRyeNBgq/7RptX/b8Exsjto0e3vENIlpJYhF5zoIhjcTLUERmByLPfk+/N/ipC jafutOLv4QdlaMbpB6qH7dADD5lz+gD1+LVI4CTGW1sjOPh1f0zmPjUBnLrwk6nzA/4C BzaX1rejZ5SL78ktpjM0mSaD8JdNIQZAxgScArNNT1Xfn/OYrURpekXkwk72y5ntABdn vP3A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tZrkhQQu8BC6nXTumJMASl1FmY+VB3mKEyo7xb0bE2A=; b=bXm9qlEizcM1wLtsFWRR/TLJOkvBlnpgM1/38vmP6gEXvmXzi/62LofzthtXoG0Nqs A8wrcStvjKPCV/y67Ybpn8THJDFC/yjQoiZ3WqUncHx3Pyz4JurSSvcCzzBigq0tmbi9 sSVRaH0ejep61UcYq+veTYwJKg5wBVu+wnhKNh8kh3zWaUxvWCloRrhIyrY1NJAW78ms BlkDFPYQjDx5IEfVIs8MCyqbid5Vt9cW+2P4Kl4dTpp3J7C/Td3pClzA/Q9iocTYy1hq hX/1kNyT06co+w6izBGofLf+LnDGxLtug59HQvX1bICZZQh7TV1qAG6MTymF6xe170sD vikg== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1drr8fzEF9ZEzNcPK01Zn8XGJ8n7KxD9YmveYAfmJAJFbCC92HEo6zbLUu3CDxXQ== X-Received: by 10.223.176.7 with SMTP id f7mr7983190wra.124.1489665940803; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f48sm5922347wrf.17.2017.03.16.05.05.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:05:40 -0700 (PDT) To: d.lake@surrey.ac.uk, netslices@ietf.org References: From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: <84a0cca8-cb76-4da4-e4a9-359ef5ee8bed@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:05:40 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Another approach to the problem X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:05:44 -0000 On 16/03/2017 11:50, d.lake@surrey.ac.uk wrote: > Stewart > > Interesting - I had EXACTLY the same thought. > > There IS a business issue here which is hurting the SPs who, in-turn, are being asked to invest in order to support more consumption from the OTTs. > > My thought is that IETF (note - E) is the wrong place to be addressing this for the reasons Anton has been succinctly addressing. > > Other "network" industries also struggle with this same revenue settlement/investment/OTT problem to different extents (the two which come to mind immediately are rail and electricity supply). > > Could this be an IAB study group of some sort? David An interesting idea, regardless of how this discussion turn out. The IETF, in the broad meaning of the term, tends to regard this sort of problem as out of scope, but there are some existential questions that lie at the root of this, and they have technical implications, so maybe it does need to take a closer look. - Stewart From nobody Thu Mar 16 05:22:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9440C12947D for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:22:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=lucidvision.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s6LJ3UJkLgTr for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidab1.miniserver.com [78.31.106.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 293BD129471 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:21:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lucidvision.com; s=default; t=1489666887; bh=xCpgwbtAMkRLi4O8TnbbzP2oo3DVH0PydJx9ng08csM=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=M3hBBcsG3jO755YcSjuX3LWsmQ1JZPDvgnNZBGWyOWHk1+emQX67DYXr1Cxgt9U33 sp9XWstwEIt9JkOG6yG/atuG35rOPit/q86lQ3Rf6KRK0kKmDvvuK7DNZIrnkEn+kM NVPdJvp1qUJeGtmQwpDCkNgw9PeOku0Y7TqZ3L4s= X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.255.148.181; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Thomas Nadeau In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:21:36 -0400 Cc: "netslices@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0F0983BB-2151-440F-A39E-DE1EDEE109A9@lucidvision.com> References: <9C232A5931D6D64D9D2D076B38A0E49B6DC47358@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <7C4B8F3BED3A204AB58199B2ABB235B82A70B390@SZXEMI504-MBX.china.huawei.com> <20170314052812.GG4172@spectre> <08f4fe8d-2e77-0bce-a3e8-205a8e8bce2a@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Anton Ivanov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Authenticated-User: tnadeau@lucidvision.com X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-Encryption: SSL encrypted X-MyRbl: Color=Unknown ip=50.255.148.181 X-IP-stats: Notspam Incoming Last 1, First 671, in=4966, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=50.255.148.181 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgTmV0U2xpY2VzIElFVEYgOTg6IHNp?= =?utf-8?q?de_meeting=3A_Call_for_Contributions?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:22:02 -0000 Exactly. This is directly analogous to how Traffic Engineering = has been deployed over the years, and the most pragmatic solution has been just that: = provider-to-provider=20 agreements for things like PCEP use. Mobile scenarios are unlikely going = to be a special=20 case here. I could be wrong, and would welcome the input of some mobile = operators if this is not the case. =E2=80=94Tom > On Mar 16, 2017:2:45 AM, at 2:45 AM, Anton Ivanov = wrote: >=20 > On 16/03/17 04:56, qiangli (D) wrote: >> Hi Anton, >>=20 >> I am afraid it is inappropriate to regard all of things like = flexibility support as an orchestration exercise which could be done in = a higher layer platform.=20 >>=20 >> Considering a situation that different domains (i.e., RAN, Transport = network, CN) belong to different providers, a common higher layer = platform (maybe we can call it vertical approach) is no longer valid.=20 >=20 > The idea of a common horizontal platform is even less valid. >=20 > If two providers cannot agree to provide flexibility at the layer that > does the billing they are not going to provide it any other layer any > time soon. >=20 > A. >=20 >> On the contrary, the horizontal approach that let domain managers = negotiate and cooperate with each other will be better. Our IETF should = consider/design the East-West interfaces among domain managers for = horizontal approach. For vertical approach, we still need to design the = North-South interfaces for the description of tenants' requirements and = feedback from network. >>=20 >>=20 >> Best regards, >> Cristina. Qiang >>=20 >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netslices = [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Anton Ivanov >> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B43=E6=9C=8815=E6=97=A5= 15:16 >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Pedro Martinez-Julia; Andrew McLachlan >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: netslices@ietf.org; xuling (F); = Xavier.Defoy@Interdigital.com; Kiran.Makhijani; Stewart Bryant; Adrian = Farrel; Satish K >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Netslices] NetSlices IETF 98: side meeting: = Call for Contributions >>=20 >> On 15/03/17 01:32, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: >>> Dear Andrew, Adrian, and others, >>>=20 >>> My intermission was only to discuss my thoughts on using VPN as a = mean=20 >>> for slicing transport networks. Please, do not extrapolate the lack = of=20 >>> new requirements in very specific use cases, which are actually = asking=20 >>> for VPNs. >>>=20 >>> Retaking the question on "network slicing" (without being = specifically=20 >>> linked to transport network or VPNs), we have a set of requirements=20= >>> that are not met today. =46rom my point of view, they are: >>>=20 >>> - Enhanced infrastructure flexibility: Both underlying and overlying >>> network elements can be added, removed, scaled up/down, = re/connected, >>> re/configured, etc. in terms of seconds/milliseconds instead of = hours >>> or minutes. >> That is orchestration, does not need a protocol - not IETF subject. >>=20 >>> - Resource plasticity: Flexibility is also taken to the atomic = level, so >>> the view of resources as fixed elements (e.g. a link between A and = B >>> with properties P_x) gives pass to a "plastic element" that can = change >>> its shape dynamically and promptly in response to stimuli coming = from >>> different sources: consumer requirements specified through a = standard >>> and simple interface (current interfaces are not good for such = task), >>> changes in the working environment (events) or the workload, etc. >> That just broke the buzzword metering component in my brain. I am = sorry it is not very plastic and it needs a good signal-to-noise ratio = to work with. >>=20 >> In any case - if you want to change any of the resources attached = dynamically, that is once again an orchestration problem. The most we = can do here is define some models and get the whole thing aligned = correctly with i2rs and netmod so that orchestration has the appropriate = material to work with. >>=20 >>> - Composability: Regardless of their provider, or even specific = nature, >>> network resources (and services) would be able to be easily = composed >>> to build "composite/composed resources/services" that somehow = inherit >>> the capabilities/qualities of the original resources, getting = enhanced >>> reliability by favoring reusability, among other benefits. This = would >>> be like a crosswise SFC. >> Orchestration. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> A crazy example would be like: >>> - I want to account, log, and share (e.g. to my colleagues or peers = of >>> my favorite social network) the temperature that is around me at = any >>> moment. >>> - I request, probably to different infrastructure providers, a link >>> between my mobile phone and my home manager, a caching service, an >>> authorization service, a router, a temperature sensor for the room >>> where I am now, and a WiFi AP. >>> - I somehow build a composite service by lengthwise (SFC) and = crosswise >>> integration of those elements, and publish it. >>> - I then move to other location, which is detected by my mobile = phone >>> and triggers an update of the service by changing some parameters = of >>> the elements that compose it (changing the location of the WiFi AP = and >>> sensor, the endpoints of the link, etc.). >>> - I decide to open the access to more levels of my social network, = so >>> the authorization service gets updated but the service also = receives >>> much more requests and thus increases its workload. The appropriate >>> parameters are tuned to overcome this: link B/W, cache location = and/or >>> replication, etc. >> What you are describing is an interaction of a network slice with = on-premises network. We cannot realistically cover any and every crazy = idea in this area. There needs to be some narrowing down of the scope in = order for this to result in viable standards. >>=20 >> If suspect there may be a use case to look into a boundary = interaction between a homenet and a VPN from a slice perspective and = that can join the queue of issues to be looked at. Similarly, a boundary = of 6LoPaN and the VPN under slice control >>=20 >> We cannot realistically cover any OTHER use cases because they lack = the definition to work with. >>=20 >> Just to be clear, we cannot "appropriate" control of the leaf if it = is already subject to what homenet, 6lopan, etc are working on. We can = only work up to and including the boundary. >>=20 >> Once again, a lot of this smells like model definitions and a weird = case of non-i2rs topology import (or maybe expand i2rs? dunno...). >>=20 >> A, >>=20 >>> This is just part of an scenario envisioned to exploit the main=20 >>> benefits of network slicing (denoted by the required flexibility),=20= >>> also including virtualization, network service migration, merging=20 >>> computing and network services together, etc. >>>=20 >>> I hope this adds some valuable points to justify the actual need for = a=20 >>> reference architecture for network slicing... >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Pedro >>>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Mar 16 05:26:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB795129452 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:26:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=lucidvision.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n3zER1BV6ZVS for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidab1.miniserver.com [78.31.106.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C540A127201 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:26:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lucidvision.com; s=default; t=1489667156; bh=zyRoO+PwR1rRuyPAhRen+xIENTf0/4CIRZf7wS6MK7E=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=iORnte1z1552VtpzMTr2ZwQ6qTHp4TnL1/Bnkom29ayfiykBFCqgpwWL+1X77Orhf aIKX9scHarEPpsCeRDxceT6brnLhTo+yWVSBrdq6+pi9EJqaoIgFx2AIVwP3RFcFSy 0zCzZzlRvoe3qIzYUWq8nFwoyHRwO9WEI5CiAYxw= X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.255.148.181; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Thomas Nadeau In-Reply-To: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:25:58 -0400 Cc: Anton Ivanov , "netslices@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0667ED0C-430F-4EB5-96DA-41C447121D4B@lucidvision.com> References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: "qiangli (D)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Authenticated-User: tnadeau@lucidvision.com X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-Encryption: SSL encrypted X-MyRbl: Color=Yellow Age=0 Spam=0 Notspam=1 Stars=0 Good=0 Friend=0 Surbl=0 Catch=0 r=0 ip=50.255.148.181 X-IP-stats: Notspam Incoming Last 0, First 671, in=4967, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=50.255.148.181 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgIOetlOWkjTogIEZsZXhpYmlsaXR5?= =?utf-8?q?_Requirement?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:26:29 -0000 > On Mar 16, 2017:5:53 AM, at 5:53 AM, qiangli (D) = wrote: >=20 > Please see my reply inline below. >=20 > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netslices = [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Anton Ivanov > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B43=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=A5= 16:45 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: qiangli (D); netslices@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Netslices] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Flexibility = Requirement >=20 > On 16/03/17 08:35, qiangli (D) wrote: >> Hi Anton, >>=20 >> Datacenter is indeed a resource that needs flexible allocation and = management. Except for datacenter, all of the network resources from RAN = to CN (include radio unit, router, port, CPU, S-GW etc.) should be = appropriately allocated.=20 >>=20 >> Even for a provider, it is impossible to manage all of these = resources just through a single controller/platform, since different = domains have quite different technical attributes. RAN, TN, CN must have = their own domain controllers. In order to achieve the flexible E2E = network slicing, we have to consider the interoperation among domain = controllers. >=20 > At orchestration level - you are doing controller interop. >=20 > [Cristina] As long as the controller interoperation needs new = standards, people couldn't say it is out of our scope.=20 > In addition to east-west interfaces, NS will also involve new = standards in north-south interfaces. We should consider: > 1) how to describe tenants' requirements to controllers > 2) how to present a logical view of NSI to a tenant > 3) tenant should be able to configure their own NSI, then how = to deliver the configuration commands to controllers > 4) how to deliver the configuration commands from controllers = to underlying network, etc. I am not sure this is needed either. Look around at how SDN = controllers interoperate today - both for like-to-like and different controllers - and you will find that = =E2=80=9Cstandard methods=E2=80=9D already exist=20 for this such as message bus or north-bound ReSTful API interaction = approaches. =E2=80=94Tom >=20 >=20 > A. >> That is, we need to design the std. east-west interfaces. >>=20 >>=20 >> Best regards, >> Cristina.qiang >>=20 >>=20 >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netslices = [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Anton Ivanov >> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B43=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=A5= 15:45 >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netslices@ietf.org >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Netslices] Flexibility Requirement >>=20 >>=20 >>>> First of all, a SP network just does not work this way. If it=20 >>>> cannot be orchestrated and billed it does not exist. >>> Who is saying the opposite? >>>=20 >>>> Second, flexibility, variable bandwidth, etc - are all billable = items. >>>> The idea that you can create the means to establish billable items=20= >>>> across a provider network without billing, capacity planning and=20 >>>> orchestration involved is in the realm of entertaining. Very=20 >>>> entertaining indeed. However, entertainment is not a subject for a=20= >>>> WGs and RFCs (except the 1st of april ones). >>> Again, who said the opposite? >>>=20 >>> Any feature we can think about would be billable (although sometimes=20= >>> not >>> billed) or it just does not require any effort. We cannot consider=20= >>> other situation. But it is totally different from the need for=20 >>> flexibility in network services, and an slicing architecture would=20= >>> provide the needed coherence to achieve such flexibility while=20 >>> enforcing some compatibility among providers. What is wrong with it? >> Cool - please provide a use case which is not covered by the current = existing stuff. >>=20 >> The last set you provided was doable using 1990-es and sub-2000 RFC=20= >> technology and redone 3 times since 1994 - twice using MPLS (PWE and >> L3VPN) and once using L2VPN - to a total of 4 times so far. >>=20 >> So something that actually needs to be done, is not done at present = and is "flexible" as a use case, please. You are failing to provide a = single example of "flexible" that has not been done and needs doing. = Please do so so we can actually enqueue it for the use case draft. >>=20 >> I personally do not see anything like this on the network side. It = has been done, dusted and does not need redoing for use cases which are = sufficiently "common" to become a standard. The only open issues needed = to work on are interworking to "resources" where resources are = datacenter and leaves governed by other WGs or standard bodies - = homenet, 6lopan, nvo3 or (outside IETF) 3GPP. >>=20 >> A. >>=20 >>>> A. >>> Regards, >>> Pedro >>>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Mar 16 05:27:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F68D129483 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:27:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BR1CEAngEqOG for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidab1.miniserver.com [78.31.106.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7ABC2129466 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:27:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.255.148.181; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Thomas Nadeau In-Reply-To: <08bc01d29e3f$6dba2650$492e72f0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:27:15 -0400 Cc: Anton Ivanov , "qiangli (D)" , netslices@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <08bc01d29e3f$6dba2650$492e72f0$@olddog.co.uk> To: Farrel Adrian X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Authenticated-User: tnadeau@lucidvision.com X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-Encryption: SSL encrypted X-MyRbl: Color=Yellow Age=0 Spam=0 Notspam=2 Stars=0 Good=0 Friend=0 Surbl=0 Catch=0 r=0 ip=50.255.148.181 X-IP-stats: Notspam Incoming Last 0, First 671, in=4968, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=50.255.148.181 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiBGbGV4aWJpbGl0eSBS?= =?utf-8?q?equirement?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:27:26 -0000 > On Mar 16, 2017:6:23 AM, at 6:23 AM, Adrian Farrel = wrote: >=20 > Picking at one point (and so losing context :-) >=20 >> There MAY BE a role for the IETF in all of that (I am repeating this >> for the n-th time here) - it is how to model data, how to represent >> topology for slice use >=20 > Once you are in the business of representing topology, isn't topology = just topology? > That is, isn't a graph just a graph no matter to what application you = intend to apply it? I think so. > I would like to understand how "slice use" of topology differs from = "VPN use" or "TE use" or "capacity planning use" etc. > I think understanding that will help me understand what additional = work is needed to make NetSlices a practical project. I honestly cannot see the difference either, or why anything = special is needed here. =E2=80=94Tom >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Mar 16 05:32:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F1B129482 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:32:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=lucidvision.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Lxs1HvNHAt1 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidab1.miniserver.com [78.31.106.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28337129480 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:32:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lucidvision.com; s=default; t=1489667522; bh=p9WG42O/KSHLyMnLDp5xWI14AJreyK7tQYGv2Pydl4k=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=HKSbjwqM20nbTd8BBJ+AIMu9CzMZi+48pCTI4jnllovElckPd/edDd6RohJ1gJvur VrgGIfxKY/8+RiV0DC/6rA7BW/mCnrMdHeRGWSE7uF7p4aiCre6/wKAMKmMfU5bOHn 1V+F9el1SVKGOlT+lj+sMp47zEC7EsvOTi3YKauc= X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.255.148.181; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Thomas Nadeau In-Reply-To: <98bc6edc-0a30-741c-2b27-3b91d45b928a@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:32:13 -0400 Cc: netslices@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3D13AFAB-61BB-4F67-BC82-38F69ED32457@lucidvision.com> References: <98bc6edc-0a30-741c-2b27-3b91d45b928a@kot-begemot.co.uk> To: Anton Ivanov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Authenticated-User: tnadeau@lucidvision.com X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-Encryption: SSL encrypted X-MyRbl: Color=Yellow Age=0 Spam=0 Notspam=3 Stars=0 Good=0 Friend=0 Surbl=0 Catch=0 r=0 ip=50.255.148.181 X-IP-stats: Notspam Incoming Last 0, First 671, in=4969, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=50.255.148.181 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Another approach to the problem X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:32:35 -0000 > On Mar 16, 2017:8:00 AM, at 8:00 AM, Anton Ivanov = wrote: >=20 > On 16/03/17 11:34, Stewart Bryant wrote: >>=20 >> I have been thinking quite hard about the ongoing debate between = those looking to design and deploy NS, and those with experience in = deploying orchestrated networks. >>=20 >> I wonder if we need to address this from a different angle. >>=20 >> Fundamentally this is about a customer buying a service from a = provider, and the provider spinning up all the components of that = service, and the question being asked is whether this is a new business = model supported by new technology of an existing business model for = which we have deployed technology. >=20 > Existing business model - inter-provider OSS interworking + activation = to match. Some of us have been there and written it before including = QoS/Guarantee interworking at the border between providers. I count at = least 2 people I know who have built this on this list (I am sure there = are more). > I wonder whether we might make more progress by starting with the = business architecture? >=20 > If it is an existing business model which some of us have built and = deplotyed as far back as 2007 (at least myself) and 3GPP has just awoken = to it - why should we redo it? >=20 > I said in one of my first emails that 3GPP has a phenomenal talent for = digging out archaeological artefacts and presenting them like the newest = thing around, so we can suffer from them for decades. This is just one = more example. >=20 > There is definitely work needed to improve it and in all my comments I = am looking at it strictly from the perspective of: >=20 > 1. What work needs to be done at OSS/BSS/NMS level for making the = existing model work easier and more "out of the box" - models, interop, = etc. >=20 > 2. What network bits and pieces are missing - IMHO we are missing = boundary interop here and there. Yes, this is basically back to the same approach we took with = inter-AS TE. I suggest people look back at the pros and cons of that, and how those problems were solved (or not = solved) before attempting to=20 create new technologies to solve what appear to be very similar = situations albeit with different names.=20 =E2=80=94Tom >=20 > A. >=20 >>=20 >> I think that this means building a model with provisioning requests = flowing in one direction and invoices flowing in the other. >>=20 >> I know that this is unusual in the IETF but I wonder if it would = enable us to shed more light on the problem. >>=20 >> - Stewart >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Mar 16 06:17:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F3C1294DA for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Mar 2017 13:15:57.4032 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 6b902693-1074-40aa-9e21-d89446a2ebb5 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0601MB2284 X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: HE1PR0601MB2284.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com X-CrossPremisesHeadersFiltered: EXHY012v.surrey.ac.uk Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Another approach to the problem X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:17:00 -0000 Anton "If it is an existing business model which some of us have built and deplot= yed as far back as 2007 (at least myself) and 3GPP has just awoken to it - = why should we redo it?" I'm not convinced that 3GPP HAS awoken to the business model. In terms of = the item you state - "QoS/Guarantee interworking" - there are technical lim= itations to that in 3GPP architecture (which we can overcome, exactly as yo= u say, with existing, standardised protocols) but there have (AFAIK) been n= o proposals to 3GPP to radically overhaul the packet-core. To-date, "5G" wi= ll be built on the same architecture (just moved around a bit a la network = slicing) as 4G/LTE. I think the reason that this is so is because no-one has stated the busines= s problem other than standing and shouting "Mr OTT - stop taking all my rev= enue" on one side or "Mr SP - give me infinite capacity for free" on the ot= her. Boundary interop is an omission but we have to sort-out the settlement prob= lem first. Right now, the OTTs are doing just fine, thank you, and would = like to carry on NOT having to settle (much). We have to work out what wou= ld be in-it for them. When we've done that, we can take a look at where there may be need for new= /improved protocols which we can poke through IETF. David -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivan= ov Sent: 16 March 2017 12:01 To: netslices@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netslices] Another approach to the problem On 16/03/17 11:34, Stewart Bryant wrote: > > I have been thinking quite hard about the ongoing debate between those=20 > looking to design and deploy NS, and those with experience in=20 > deploying orchestrated networks. > > I wonder if we need to address this from a different angle. > > Fundamentally this is about a customer buying a service from a=20 > provider, and the provider spinning up all the components of that=20 > service, and the question being asked is whether this is a new=20 > business model supported by new technology of an existing business=20 > model for which we have deployed technology. Existing business model - inter-provider OSS interworking + activation to m= atch. Some of us have been there and written it before including QoS/Guaran= tee interworking at the border between providers. I count at least 2 people= I know who have built this on this list (I am sure there are more). > > I wonder whether we might make more progress by starting with the=20 > business architecture? If it is an existing business model which some of us have built and deploty= ed as far back as 2007 (at least myself) and 3GPP has just awoken to it - w= hy should we redo it? I said in one of my first emails that 3GPP has a phenomenal talent for digg= ing out archaeological artefacts and presenting them like the newest thing = around, so we can suffer from them for decades. This is just one more examp= le. There is definitely work needed to improve it and in all my comments I am l= ooking at it strictly from the perspective of: 1. What work needs to be done at OSS/BSS/NMS level for making the existing = model work easier and more "out of the box" - models, interop, etc. 2. What network bits and pieces are missing - IMHO we are missing boundary = interop here and there. A. > > I think that this means building a model with provisioning requests=20 > flowing in one direction and invoices flowing in the other. > > I know that this is unusual in the IETF but I wonder if it would=20 > enable us to shed more light on the problem. > > - Stewart > > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Mar 16 06:53:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D661294FE for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:53:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ovSMXqhe5FRE for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A399129507 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coVqY-0006oZ-7N; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:53:42 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coVqY-00053B-0U; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:53:42 +0000 To: d.lake@surrey.ac.uk, netslices@ietf.org References: <98bc6edc-0a30-741c-2b27-3b91d45b928a@kot-begemot.co.uk> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <107c7b80-52e8-6b0d-89eb-ad2b423cb158@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:53:41 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Another approach to the problem X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:53:48 -0000 On 16/03/17 13:15, d.lake@surrey.ac.uk wrote: > Anton > > "If it is an existing business model which some of us have built and deplotyed as far back as 2007 (at least myself) and 3GPP has just awoken to it - why should we redo it?" > > I'm not convinced that 3GPP HAS awoken to the business model. Well, there as signs of that. They seem to have come across some of the archaeological artefacts from our ancient travails in their efforts to build a "modern network" (quotes intended and needed). LONG after we have moved on to do something more interesting. > In terms of the item you state - "QoS/Guarantee interworking" - there are technical limitations to that in 3GPP architecture (which we can overcome, exactly as you say, with existing, standardised protocols) but there have (AFAIK) been no proposals to 3GPP to radically overhaul the packet-core. Unfortunately - yes. > To-date, "5G" will be built on the same architecture (just moved around a bit a la network slicing) as 4G/LTE. Unfortunately - yes ^2. > > I think the reason that this is so is because no-one has stated the business problem other than standing and shouting "Mr OTT - stop taking all my revenue" on one side or "Mr SP - give me infinite capacity for free" on the other. > > Boundary interop is an omission but we have to sort-out the settlement problem first. Right now, the OTTs are doing just fine, thank you, and would like to carry on NOT having to settle (much). We have to work out what would be in-it for them. Here is where being able to take a resource on let's say homenet, 6LoPaN, etc, assign it to a "slice" and connect it to the datacenter is interesting on many levels to the SP - it can start doing things which the OTT are doing now. It can presently only look with envy at what they are doing. If you do it to ALL of the traffic it equates to a virtual CPE. If you do it to part of the traffic it equates to a virtual service. It has additional interesting use cases and implications - security isolation, etc. LOTS of interesting stuff to do and to address. Very relevant too. Mirai and similar incidents finally showed some of the "benefits" of "Wild West" OTT in this space. It is way more interesting than 3GPP attempts at amateur archaeology though (they just happen to have logical and terminological overlap with it). > > When we've done that, we can take a look at where there may be need for new/improved protocols which we can poke through IETF. That as well as models to represent the actual boundary interaction so it can be controlled by systems which are outside our work scope. A. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov > Sent: 16 March 2017 12:01 > To: netslices@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netslices] Another approach to the problem > > On 16/03/17 11:34, Stewart Bryant wrote: >> I have been thinking quite hard about the ongoing debate between those >> looking to design and deploy NS, and those with experience in >> deploying orchestrated networks. >> >> I wonder if we need to address this from a different angle. >> >> Fundamentally this is about a customer buying a service from a >> provider, and the provider spinning up all the components of that >> service, and the question being asked is whether this is a new >> business model supported by new technology of an existing business >> model for which we have deployed technology. > Existing business model - inter-provider OSS interworking + activation to match. Some of us have been there and written it before including QoS/Guarantee interworking at the border between providers. I count at least 2 people I know who have built this on this list (I am sure there are more). > >> I wonder whether we might make more progress by starting with the >> business architecture? > If it is an existing business model which some of us have built and deplotyed as far back as 2007 (at least myself) and 3GPP has just awoken to it - why should we redo it? > > I said in one of my first emails that 3GPP has a phenomenal talent for digging out archaeological artefacts and presenting them like the newest thing around, so we can suffer from them for decades. This is just one more example. > > There is definitely work needed to improve it and in all my comments I am looking at it strictly from the perspective of: > > 1. What work needs to be done at OSS/BSS/NMS level for making the existing model work easier and more "out of the box" - models, interop, etc. > > 2. What network bits and pieces are missing - IMHO we are missing boundary interop here and there. > > A. > >> I think that this means building a model with provisioning requests >> flowing in one direction and invoices flowing in the other. >> >> I know that this is unusual in the IETF but I wonder if it would >> enable us to shed more light on the problem. >> >> - Stewart >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >> > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > From nobody Thu Mar 16 09:49:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E4011296B5 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:49:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B7qfw-wkrvt0 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE3A91296B6 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DIZ71606; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:49:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:49:48 +0000 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.132]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.69]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:49:34 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: "d.lake@surrey.ac.uk" , "qiangli (D)" , "anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk" , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W05ldHNsaWNlc10gIOetlOWkjTogICDnrZTlpI06ICBGbGV4aWJpbGl0eSBS?= =?utf-8?Q?equirement?= Thread-Index: AQHSnkApSCQUw14ba0ueetRGk85ZVKGXrg8A Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:49:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.246.172] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <3153451FD70F9D4D8A24C2C1C0495BAA@huawei.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.58CAC22E.0167, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.132, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 64c8dc5e7f4747b4fb0374ae9d8932ab Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgIOetlOWkjTogIEZsZXhpYmlsaXR5?= =?utf-8?q?_Requirement?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:04:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nDOlz6pVG0f6 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 581BE120227 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coYoi-0006v2-Se; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 17:04:00 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coYoi-0007UJ-KO; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 17:04:00 +0000 To: "Kiran.Makhijani" , "d.lake@surrey.ac.uk" , "qiangli (D)" , "netslices@ietf.org" References: <20170314072556.GK4172@spectre> <047401d29cce$80d08170$82718450$@olddog.co.uk> <76C48F6A-34BC-4C8C-9194-9283B1213666@realsdn.org> <20170315013204.GP4172@spectre> <106a8f12-d6ae-5d60-c7ec-52b04bc92d7d@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E2B2@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <747c9e4d-81c0-b3b4-bc2d-88a48b4e03d2@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316064949.GB1704@spectre> <39e9a229-e1a1-00ee-f3fb-cb0887234a9c@kot-begemot.co.uk> <20170316070848.GA10408@spectre> <163c8c35-c8ef-0417-9249-6740eb3e9966@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E34E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> <0cb8d32a-5c6d-80ce-6c59-2697d7a0476b@kot-begemot.co.uk> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29B9E38E@SZXEMI507-MBS.china.huawei.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <273f5fde-b054-13f4-9884-eb19a5f90f18@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 17:04:00 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IEZsZXhpYmlsaXR5IFJl?= =?utf-8?q?quirement?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 17:04:09 -0000 Kiran, 1. 5G is not the only game in town. 2. There is more to the idea of combining a resource and a virtual network than the extremely narrow and self-serving view of a mobile standards organization. A classic example of a slice which pre-dates 3GPP by more than 5 years is a vCPE service - it is a combination of a customer network, a VPN/PWE and a cloud resource to run the vCPE and vServices. That, by all means is a a SLICE. We just never bothered to describe it and standardize it properly so far. I can see the benefit in doing so, but definitely no benefit in duplicating any of the 3GPP work. A. On 16/03/17 16:49, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: > David, > I believe it is important to go back to why 5G mentions network slicing and not just refers to some form of known virtual networks, VPN technologies. Because newer kind of use cases are largely still at early stage. For example, Smart city or V2X are not as trivial as “achieving desired outcome from customer’s perspectiveâ€. These are “in-network†tightly stitched close to wire services and require entire realm of infrastructure to cooperate/coordinate/inter-operate just to be able to function and operate normally. Perhaps they may require different set of forwarding and control functions that could vary from slice to slice. It is not easy (if possible) to support this today. That’s what we should be talking about. > > I look at slicing in 2 aspects – one is infrastructure impacting new services that 5G is readying for and second, ease of and flexibility of making existing OTT simpler and efficient. I guess you are mostly focusing on the second, which is not immediately attractive for SPs. > > Regards > Kiran > > On 3/16/17, 3:28 AM, "Netslices on behalf of d.lake@surrey.ac.uk" wrote: > > "how to describe tenants' requirements to controllers" > > Isn't what you are describing essentially "Layer 8" requirements ? In other words, my desire as a customer for outcome from the organisation(s) I buy service(s) from? I agree that in the market there is a need for me to be able to describe the outcome I want and have that built across the many different components which need to be constructed to do that, but I suspect that if we organised the industry better (differently?) we would be able to do that given the protocols we have. > > The issue is that it is not in the interests of an SP to work with, say, an OTT provider (and vice-versa) because they are both chasing the same, decreasing, revenue stream. Unfortunately, some of the architectures we have (not the protocols - I think we have those) institutionalise these silos - 3GPP SAE is a case-in-point. > > I'm actually starting to think that "Network Slicing" is a misnomer. I think what we are actually trying to do is provide an even greater level of separation between application and network than we currently have (an expansion of the NetFlix et al model) but this time trying to ensure that there is some tie-in to the transport layer(s). > > There is definitely a revenue sharing/settlement piece missing here but that, surely, is out-of-scope of an IETF WG? > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of qiangli (D) > Sent: 16 March 2017 09:53 > To: Anton Ivanov ; netslices@ietf.org > Subject: [Netslices] ç­”å¤: ç­”å¤: Flexibility Requirement > > Please see my reply inline below. > > -----邮件原件----- > å‘件人: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Anton Ivanov > å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2017å¹´3月16æ—¥ 16:45 > 收件人: qiangli (D); netslices@ietf.org > 主题: Re: [Netslices] ç­”å¤: Flexibility Requirement > > On 16/03/17 08:35, qiangli (D) wrote: > > Hi Anton, > > > > Datacenter is indeed a resource that needs flexible allocation and management. Except for datacenter, all of the network resources from RAN to CN (include radio unit, router, port, CPU, S-GW etc.) should be appropriately allocated. > > > > Even for a provider, it is impossible to manage all of these resources just through a single controller/platform, since different domains have quite different technical attributes. RAN, TN, CN must have their own domain controllers. In order to achieve the flexible E2E network slicing, we have to consider the interoperation among domain controllers. > > At orchestration level - you are doing controller interop. > > [Cristina] As long as the controller interoperation needs new standards, people couldn't say it is out of our scope. > In addition to east-west interfaces, NS will also involve new standards in north-south interfaces. We should consider: > 1) how to describe tenants' requirements to controllers > 2) how to present a logical view of NSI to a tenant > 3) tenant should be able to configure their own NSI, then how to deliver the configuration commands to controllers > 4) how to deliver the configuration commands from controllers to underlying network, etc. > > > A. > > That is, we need to design the std. east-west interfaces. > > > > > > Best regards, > > Cristina.qiang > > > > > > -----邮件原件----- > > å‘件人: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Anton Ivanov > > å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2017å¹´3月16æ—¥ 15:45 > > 收件人: netslices@ietf.org > > 主题: Re: [Netslices] Flexibility Requirement > > > > > >>> First of all, a SP network just does not work this way. If it > >>> cannot be orchestrated and billed it does not exist. > >> Who is saying the opposite? > >> > >>> Second, flexibility, variable bandwidth, etc - are all billable items. > >>> The idea that you can create the means to establish billable items > >>> across a provider network without billing, capacity planning and > >>> orchestration involved is in the realm of entertaining. Very > >>> entertaining indeed. However, entertainment is not a subject for a > >>> WGs and RFCs (except the 1st of april ones). > >> Again, who said the opposite? > >> > >> Any feature we can think about would be billable (although sometimes > >> not > >> billed) or it just does not require any effort. We cannot consider > >> other situation. But it is totally different from the need for > >> flexibility in network services, and an slicing architecture would > >> provide the needed coherence to achieve such flexibility while > >> enforcing some compatibility among providers. What is wrong with it? > > Cool - please provide a use case which is not covered by the current existing stuff. > > > > The last set you provided was doable using 1990-es and sub-2000 RFC > > technology and redone 3 times since 1994 - twice using MPLS (PWE and > > L3VPN) and once using L2VPN - to a total of 4 times so far. > > > > So something that actually needs to be done, is not done at present and is "flexible" as a use case, please. You are failing to provide a single example of "flexible" that has not been done and needs doing. Please do so so we can actually enqueue it for the use case draft. > > > > I personally do not see anything like this on the network side. It has been done, dusted and does not need redoing for use cases which are sufficiently "common" to become a standard. The only open issues needed to work on are interworking to "resources" where resources are datacenter and leaves governed by other WGs or standard bodies - homenet, 6lopan, nvo3 or (outside IETF) 3GPP. > > > > A. > > > >>> A. > >> Regards, > >> Pedro > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > From nobody Thu Mar 16 10:28:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3B121296DA for ; 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YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldHNsaWNlcw0KICAgIF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgTmV0c2xpY2VzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgIE5l dHNsaWNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGlu Zm8vbmV0c2xpY2VzDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Mar 16 11:06:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC731297AB for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:05:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with 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Thread-Topic: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted Thread-Index: AQHSnn/m+h75mDgw80ibYa/Xwf5H6g== Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 18:05:31 +0000 Message-ID: <6EAA1289-D690-4B2F-BD69-26E955CD7E9D@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.246.172] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6EAA1289D6904B2FBD6926E955CD7E9Dhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.58CAD403.0040, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.132, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: cd8589ae71a3f5b999cb2ec53a025675 Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W63PO6stC4fX for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot0-x22a.google.com (mail-ot0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 750641296A2 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id x37so69637886ota.2 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:22:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=RAz9vt24I8N4XkrYKJBsx1ijR31yh1cLTYHDC8LOv9Q=; b=RZsXl0VnvKxA8dZs5HYAz8cilGKhVc3t1LqUDjJUv27fKGMVrv/Gz5lPXvh0eZ18xP 6BmtcyIfyHEubUfvkqGMk70PhdQTXpEC+X2OunK796fcnpy0J/qT8k8QxRT586YHKVL/ 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13:22:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.85.229 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:21:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6EAA1289-D690-4B2F-BD69-26E955CD7E9D@huawei.com> References: <6EAA1289-D690-4B2F-BD69-26E955CD7E9D@huawei.com> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:21:58 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Kiran.Makhijani" Cc: "netslices@ietf.org" , Alex Galis , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "stewart.bryant" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c03cea057607d054aded1c1 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 20:22:21 -0000 --94eb2c03cea057607d054aded1c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 If you move to Tuesday, please make the start time 18:50 (SFC and other WGs run until 18:40). Thanks, Andy On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: > Dear all, > > We invite you to participate in NS side meeting at IETF 98. The details > are as follows - > > > > - Location: Room Vevey 1/2, > > - Date/Time: 2017.03.27, 18:15-21:15 > > - Agenda: https://github.com/netslices/ > IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IETF98_Sidemeeting02 > > Please see detailed (agenda.md) and summarized (agenda.txt) text. > > > > Note that date/room may change from Monday 18:15 - 21:15 to Tuesday or > Wednesday. > > > > Regards > > Kiran, (along with DongJie, Alex, Stewart) > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > --94eb2c03cea057607d054aded1c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you move to Tuesday, please make the start time 18:50 (= SFC and other WGs run until 18:40).

Thanks,
An= dy


On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Kiran.Makhijani <Kir= an.Makhijani@huawei.com> wrote:

Dear all,

We invite you to pa= rticipate in NS side meeting at IETF 98. The details are as follows -

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Location: Room= Vevey 1/2,

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Date/Time: 201= 7.03.27, 18:15-21:15

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Agenda: https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IETF98_Si= demeeting02

Please see detailed (agenda.md) and summarized (agenda.txt) text.

=C2=A0

Note that date/room= may change from Monday 18:15 - 21:15 to Tuesday or Wednesday.

=C2=A0

Regards=

Kiran, = (along with DongJie, Alex, Stewart)


_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices<= /a>


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port 10024) with ESMTP id GU8jc9zZdiRZ for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 23:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBDEE12025C for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 23:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJB18812; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 06:54:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 06:53:59 +0000 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.132]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.69]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 23:53:37 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: "netslices@ietf.org" CC: pengshuping , "qiangli (D)" , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "qinjun (G)" Thread-Topic: New draft on Network Slicing use cases Thread-Index: AQHSnuszUyXvGxPC0E2nEGQzWlRmXQ== Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 06:53:36 +0000 Message-ID: <1622973A-F6D2-491A-A1A3-A488AEFB21AD@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.245.92] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1622973AF6D2491AA1A3A488AEFB21ADhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.58CB8809.0020, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.132, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 410ad191b973e7958055758812afcf32 Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5_Kp6M4D6Ang for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 02:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0043126D73 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 02:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJB41100; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:24:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:24:45 +0000 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.160]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 17:24:35 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: "Andrew G. Malis" , "Kiran.Makhijani" CC: "netslices@ietf.org" , Alex Galis , "stewart.bryant" Thread-Topic: Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: [Netslices] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted Thread-Index: AdKfADrCFFdqEXQ7QLa1zdTNDmwYvA== Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:24:34 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935C0911@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.151.75] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935C0911NKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.58CBAB5F.0396, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.160, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 2842a43f095592af841e2a8886baf36e Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 02:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 696C6126DDF for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 02:41:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2H9fLr6022268; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:41:21 GMT Received: from 950129200 ([176.241.250.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2H9fHDJ022209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:41:18 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" , "'Andrew G. Malis'" , "'Kiran.Makhijani'" Cc: "'Alex Galis'" , , "'stewart.bryant'" References: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935C0911@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935C0911@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:41:17 -0000 Message-ID: <010b01d29f02$a1e8b860$e5ba2920$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010C_01D29F02.A1EED2E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHl1udUNwQ2UNkf/wXvmpNd9jw5UqFyVqGQ Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-22946.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--31.752-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--31.752-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: NWeCO2ukHRtbJCKOm3VRCdhaunXv2miGZ3KRkLO0vRkBr35gzwsy0YK8 Ie9xMivVfPmUQQG69pzY6b+NuFvy+tJ178I1tpklZJY6r7aDSHbyUyfUI2FJa6ElhgopfGM2A4S 6rJfSNyM911MXjuRPi7rbxxduc6FP9r9tEcSw8jcbIszkLg3+MRDwd0w0fS5xIlEZHTs8FF3xmR 9/Ghz7vJj50ewQ/8wVqbg9uWhLYLf2kudi1D33ErJ3rmpkUU+TJ8H95H5rK0M22uoEm245foFaN aPuEIbSaWbbDm4LdIZ3vIzA7XyIiCEF1RdqrHVdtdx2lXHjF1Ii/B2gujrEHzB6EdCmNDGVVbED P0uzojXyTBeqcpWTVlRe8joruKtpIFb2VdwQdkDROhK+RFWo5lthOgNFYwZakNCK/RB7QjECSHH GjA3FAhfyTevQtfkQkdcpJKX5Jwr8BlbXy+O/WhpdmBWOIhDbjU/T+XbSJho/DUc/B6QpkmRGSn UqeCO9OQRl+99vaMkMH4SsGvRsA1qvZZ9/gpIhZ5yuplze9ps57kFjOTI5JYBMc1fifV0Yevvmo SY8Jmt4gIWnbcyVjd/wYmMFcJSIcbVmJQ7kUKVLwIXeA1TZXXii5kSOR4tGVCir/P/HlBCexSLB WoM4BFISCbZIzCBZIj0zFI5DoJJeCrB32KOS0H6cp973lFkJS/4a/2DJkv/yzEFaT3dkzG5zP/F SQ4TNo27w8ee4WC8+W6N2SzBTB5v8tNLRPUrWEB0PuwJG07FzQ5G1LEePyruwuIYnhcFSgDLqnr RlXrbS77Co4bNJXT++5wafXR2mjuWfGCCbS2Q3t+rCisuHj55wsgr/nP5BfpqJCgc4qJmzxtL1P dlFcfMbcqsD3rSnNn+7N6fSQnY= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:41:41 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01D29F02.A1EED2E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As someone said before, it is really unfortunate to have this meeting = conflict with various WG meetings that are not scheduled to end until = 18.40. =20 Can I urge you to delay the start of your meeting? =20 Thanks, Adrian =20 From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dongjie = (Jimmy) Sent: 17 March 2017 09:25 To: Andrew G. Malis; Kiran.Makhijani Cc: Alex Galis; netslices@ietf.org; stewart.bryant Subject: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices = side meeting agenda posted =20 Hi Andy and all,=20 =20 We=E2=80=99ve got the confirmation that our side meeting is moved to = Tuesday the same time (18:15-21:15), same room (Vevey 1/2).=20 =20 As Andy mentioned there will be some overlap with the end of the SFC = session, maybe we could start a bit late than scheduled. =20 Best regards, Jie =20 From: Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 4:22 AM To: Kiran.Makhijani Cc: netslices@ietf.org; Alex Galis ; Dongjie = (Jimmy) ; stewart.bryant Subject: Re: [Netslices] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted =20 If you move to Tuesday, please make the start time 18:50 (SFC and other = WGs run until 18:40). =20 Thanks, Andy =20 =20 On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Kiran.Makhijani = wrote: Dear all,=20 We invite you to participate in NS side meeting at IETF 98. The details = are as follows - =20 - Location: Room Vevey 1/2, - Date/Time: 2017.03.27, 18:15-21:15 - Agenda: = https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IETF98_Sidemeetin= g02 Please see detailed (agenda.md) and summarized (agenda.txt) text. =20 Note that date/room may change from Monday 18:15 - 21:15 to Tuesday or = Wednesday. =20 Regards Kiran, (along with DongJie, Alex, Stewart) _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =20 ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01D29F02.A1EED2E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As someone said before, it is really unfortunate = to have this meeting conflict with various WG meetings that are not = scheduled to end until 18.40.

 

Can I urge you to delay the start of your = meeting?

 

Thanks,

Adrian

 

From: Netslices = [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dongjie = (Jimmy)
Sent: 17 March 2017 09:25
To: Andrew G. = Malis; Kiran.Makhijani
Cc: Alex Galis; netslices@ietf.org; = stewart.bryant
Subject: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to = Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda = posted

 

Hi Andy and all, =

 

We=E2=80=99ve got = the confirmation that our side meeting is moved to Tuesday the = same time (18:15-21:15), same room (Vevey 1/2).

 

As Andy mentioned = there will be some overlap with the end of the SFC session, maybe we = could start a bit late than scheduled.

 

Best = regards,

Jie

 

From: Andrew G. Malis = [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 4:22 = AM
To: Kiran.Makhijani = <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com>
Cc: netslices@ietf.org; = Alex Galis <galis.alex@gmail.com>; Dongjie (Jimmy) = <jie.dong@huawei.com>; stewart.bryant = <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] = IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda = posted

 <= /o:p>

If you move = to Tuesday, please make the start time 18:50 (SFC and other WGs run = until 18:40).

 <= /o:p>

Thanks,=

Andy

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

On Thu, Mar = 16, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Kiran.Makhijani <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com> = wrote:

Dear all, <= /span>

We invite you to participate in NS side meeting at IETF 98. The = details are as follows -<= /span>

 <= /span>

- =          Location: Room Vevey 1/2,<= /span>

- =          Date/Time: 2017.03.27, 18:15-21:15<= /span>

- =          Agenda: https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/tree/master= /IETF98_Sidemeeting02<= /span>

Please see detailed (agenda.md) and summarized (agenda.txt) = text.<= /span>

 <= /span>

Note that date/room may change from Monday 18:15 - 21:15 to Tuesday = or Wednesday.<= /span>

 <= /span>

Regards<= /span>

Kiran, (along with DongJie, Alex, Stewart)<= /span>


________= _______________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

 <= /o:p>

------=_NextPart_000_010C_01D29F02.A1EED2E0-- From nobody Fri Mar 17 02:51:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 880FC1270AC for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 02:51:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z38RSx5bSc5F for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 02:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot0-x232.google.com (mail-ot0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA88E127071 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 02:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot0-x232.google.com with SMTP id o24so84781566otb.1 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 02:51:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=P4wcOb6D/JnMzmDFjH5tfW0gWqLSH5RVqeNdsQm5NwU=; b=rygpsRj97+OX46SmLyXBdBprl0TKoSysXjMTQsgPrrT0OhH19VP4dtQB1+lObsnxvV uJfJPEaMLYkc1EkRmFrJF6bEqS4psenyaJZFnrcTT5s0CkPdG8Ci2wvjX0uWwEpNhgG2 dfxC7Bztsjg/GF55/DoWjKsD2TJMKKb8Q1iGthtyYKcL/vVsEbCeRekYUY3cUHgat/sV 2yx97ERC51OF5Z99WhE8vylBNyo2ik9Yt7hM7UvLSspned7crzM2QYrt1xtt7ESfI6pH p19siJtQ/g+yxcjqZDR1P2vXDt/JLGrGCWYDq2oj/N/qASLC8+51vHZV6ylfR37BQ5Je GacA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=P4wcOb6D/JnMzmDFjH5tfW0gWqLSH5RVqeNdsQm5NwU=; b=D1LKXt6UdQiKpJx/Gr4iDdJcXtEHmj5hPGc3bB9BZ8kHjZ27x4+CnVvs88mWMii0rk onSNigG2/i11EaPvtOapbpiqFxV3jqeXcBuhJLgvuzzNroIIxXjRNJ+UBMhjDh4JZCFL 5p6Z38pemFM9K7Zc3mjciqesMUhk4Ow3lqQ4diNbzJmOJH/kTPNrmW8xsK2c20O4aCfe 86JGGjdTfUR0pZqbB43izhFItMVIQGbAWyA44ASN1E/2257DQVNeZmh9waoz9VqXRZag V3ymJqn8rahragOG7ZLv256awZHnrH/714pnDsM4sC8Gw6R1EyJlXeHRAI68ZbzD8tCo UeYA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1Y3XxOV5+84EvwH7E0uxu6X0m8t9oEFkg/+/eE9AFdPO7EHtT2ucPbGytr86wQCVJbwlhYWd1c9JkFXw== X-Received: by 10.157.16.23 with SMTP id h23mr842751ote.77.1489744283209; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 02:51:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.85.229 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 02:51:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <010b01d29f02$a1e8b860$e5ba2920$@olddog.co.uk> References: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935C0911@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <010b01d29f02$a1e8b860$e5ba2920$@olddog.co.uk> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 05:51:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: Adrian Farrel Cc: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Kiran.Makhijani" , Alex Galis , netslices@ietf.org, "stewart.bryant" , Loa Andersson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113e5798ce9703054aea1ec6 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:51:25 -0000 --001a113e5798ce9703054aea1ec6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jie, Kiran, et al, Yes, please, announce the start for 18:50. Otherwise attendance will be low because people in WGs may not come if they=E2=80=99ve already missed the fi= rst half hour. Thanks, Andy On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 5:41 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > As someone said before, it is really unfortunate to have this meeting > conflict with various WG meetings that are not scheduled to end until 18.= 40. > > > > Can I urge you to delay the start of your meeting? > > > > Thanks, > > Adrian > > > > *From:* Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Dong= jie > (Jimmy) > *Sent:* 17 March 2017 09:25 > *To:* Andrew G. Malis; Kiran.Makhijani > *Cc:* Alex Galis; netslices@ietf.org; stewart.bryant > *Subject:* [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 > NetSlices side meeting agenda posted > > > > Hi Andy and all, > > > > We=E2=80=99ve got the confirmation that our side meeting is moved to *Tue= sday* > the same time (18:15-21:15), same room (Vevey 1/2). > > > > As Andy mentioned there will be some overlap with the end of the SFC > session, maybe we could start a bit late than scheduled. > > > > Best regards, > > Jie > > > > *From:* Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2017 4:22 AM > *To:* Kiran.Makhijani > *Cc:* netslices@ietf.org; Alex Galis ; Dongjie > (Jimmy) ; stewart.bryant > *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted > > > > If you move to Tuesday, please make the start time 18:50 (SFC and other > WGs run until 18:40). > > > > Thanks, > > Andy > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Kiran.Makhijani < > Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com> wrote: > > Dear all, > > We invite you to participate in NS side meeting at IETF 98. The details > are as follows - > > > > - Location: Room Vevey 1/2, > > - Date/Time: 2017.03.27, 18:15-21:15 > > - Agenda: https://github.com/netslices/ > IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IETF98_Sidemeeting02 > > Please see detailed (agenda.md) and summarized (agenda.txt) text. > > > > Note that date/room may change from Monday 18:15 - 21:15 to Tuesday or > Wednesday. > > > > Regards > > Kiran, (along with DongJie, Alex, Stewart) > > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > > --001a113e5798ce9703054aea1ec6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jie, Kiran, et al,

Yes, please, announc= e the start for 18:50. Otherwise attendance will be low because people in W= Gs may not come if they=E2=80=99ve already missed the first half hour.

Thanks,
Andy

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 5:41 AM, Adri= an Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

As someone said before, it is really unfortunate to have th= is meeting conflict with various WG meetings that are not scheduled to end = until 18.40.

=C2=A0

Can I urge you to delay the start of your meeting?=

= =C2=A0

T= hanks,

Adrian

=C2=A0

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Dongjie (Jimmy)
Sent: 17 March 2017 09:25
To: Andrew G.= Malis; Kiran.Makhijani
Cc: Alex Galis; netslices@ietf.org; stewart.bryant
Subject: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlic= es side meeting agenda posted

=C2=A0

Hi Andy and all, =

=C2=A0

We=E2=80=99ve got the confirmation that our si= de meeting is moved to Tuesday the same time (18:15-21:15), same roo= m (Vevey 1/2).

=C2=A0

As Andy mentioned ther= e will be some overlap with the end of the SFC session, maybe we could star= t a bit late than scheduled.

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regard= s,

Jie

=C2=A0

From: Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com]
Sent:= Friday, March 17, 2017 4:22 AM
To: Kiran.Makhijani <Kiran.Makhijani@= huawei.com>
Cc: netslices@ietf.org; Alex Galis <galis.alex@gmail.com>; Dongjie (= Jimmy) <jie.don= g@huawei.com>; stewart.bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Subject:= Re: [Netslices] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted<= /u>

=C2=A0

= If you move to Tuesday, please make the start time 18:50 (SFC and other WGs= run until 18:40).

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Andy

=

=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

On= Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Kiran.Makhijani <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com> = wrote:

Dear all,

We invite you to participate in NS side = meeting at IETF 98. The details are as follows -

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Location: Room Vevey 1/2,=

-=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Date/Time: 2017.03.27, 18:15-21:15

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Agenda: https://github.com/netslices/<= wbr>IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IETF98_Sidemeeting02

Please see detailed (= agenda.md) and summarized (agenda.txt) text.

=C2=A0

Note that date/room may change from Monday 18:15 - 21:15 to Tuesday or We= dnesday.

=C2=A0

Regards

Kiran, (along with DongJie, Ale= x, Stewart)


_______________________________________________
Netslices mail= ing list
Netslic= es@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices<= /a>

=C2=A0


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Malis'" , "Kiran.Makhijani" CC: "'Alex Galis'" , "netslices@ietf.org" , "'stewart.bryant'" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted Thread-Index: AQHSnwK65RA/paLM50CO/+sPBVgDJKGYyFnw Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:53:16 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935C096F@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935C0911@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <010b01d29f02$a1e8b860$e5ba2920$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <010b01d29f02$a1e8b860$e5ba2920$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.151.75] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935C096FNKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.58CBB21B.0233, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.160, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 7e652f67e0f99f444d76ff4e82ce22fb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 10:10:25 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Kiran.Makhijani" , "stewart.bryant" To: "Andrew G. Malis" , Adrian Farrel , Loa Andersson , netslices@ietf.org References: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935C0911@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <010b01d29f02$a1e8b860$e5ba2920$@olddog.co.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 03:11:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 10:10:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BF8C5049-D578-411D-9470-B8227EFC4EFC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear All We are searching for better arrangements (i.e. avoiding the overlap on = Tuesday with the WGs) which would be communicated very soon. Thank you for your messages Best Regards Alex > On 17 Mar 2017, at 09:51, Andrew G. Malis wrote: >=20 > Jie, Kiran, et al, >=20 > Yes, please, announce the start for 18:50. Otherwise attendance will = be low because people in WGs may not come if they=E2=80=99ve already = missed the first half hour. >=20 > Thanks, > Andy >=20 > On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 5:41 AM, Adrian Farrel > wrote: > As someone said before, it is really unfortunate to have this meeting = conflict with various WG meetings that are not scheduled to end until = 18.40. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Can I urge you to delay the start of your meeting? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Adrian >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Dongjie (Jimmy) > Sent: 17 March 2017 09:25 > To: Andrew G. Malis; Kiran.Makhijani > Cc: Alex Galis; netslices@ietf.org ; = stewart.bryant > Subject: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 = NetSlices side meeting agenda posted >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hi Andy and all, >=20 > =20 >=20 > We=E2=80=99ve got the confirmation that our side meeting is moved to = Tuesday the same time (18:15-21:15), same room (Vevey 1/2). >=20 > =20 >=20 > As Andy mentioned there will be some overlap with the end of the SFC = session, maybe we could start a bit late than scheduled. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Jie >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com = ]=20 > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 4:22 AM > To: Kiran.Makhijani > > Cc: netslices@ietf.org ; Alex Galis = >; Dongjie (Jimmy) = >; stewart.bryant = > > Subject: Re: [Netslices] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted >=20 > =20 >=20 > If you move to Tuesday, please make the start time 18:50 (SFC and = other WGs run until 18:40). >=20 > =20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Andy >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Kiran.Makhijani = > wrote: >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > We invite you to participate in NS side meeting at IETF 98. The = details are as follows - >=20 > =20 >=20 > - Location: Room Vevey 1/2, >=20 > - Date/Time: 2017.03.27, 18:15-21:15 >=20 > - Agenda: = https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IETF98_Sidemeeting= 02 = > Please see detailed (agenda.md ) and summarized = (agenda.txt) text. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Note that date/room may change from Monday 18:15 - 21:15 to Tuesday or = Wednesday. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Regards >=20 > Kiran, (along with DongJie, Alex, Stewart) >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices = > =20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices --Apple-Mail=_BF8C5049-D578-411D-9470-B8227EFC4EFC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear All

We= are searching for better arrangements  (i.e. avoiding the overlap = on Tuesday with the WGs) which would be communicated very = soon.

Thank = you for your messages

Best Regards
Alex
On = 17 Mar 2017, at 09:51, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> = wrote:

Jie, Kiran, et al,

Yes, please, announce = the start for 18:50. Otherwise attendance will be low because people in = WGs may not come if they=E2=80=99ve already missed the first half = hour.

Thanks,
Andy

On Fri, = Mar 17, 2017 at 5:41 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

As someone said before, it is really = unfortunate to have this meeting conflict with various WG meetings that = are not scheduled to end until 18.40.

 

Can I urge you to delay the start of = your meeting?

 

Thanks,

Adrian

 

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dongjie (Jimmy)
Sent: 17 March 2017 09:25
To: Andrew G. Malis; Kiran.Makhijani
Cc: Alex Galis; netslices@ietf.org; stewart.bryant
Subject: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to = Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted

 

Hi Andy and all,

 

We=E2=80=99ve got the confirmation that = our side meeting is moved to Tuesday the same time = (18:15-21:15), same room (Vevey 1/2).

 

As Andy mentioned there will be some = overlap with the end of the SFC session, maybe we could start a bit late = than scheduled.

 

Best regards,

Jie

 

From: Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com]
Sent: = Friday, March 17, 2017 4:22 AM
To: = Kiran.Makhijani <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com>
Cc: netslices@ietf.org; Alex Galis <galis.alex@gmail.com>; Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; stewart.bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting = agenda posted

 

If you move to = Tuesday, please make the start time 18:50 (SFC and other WGs run until = 18:40).

 

Thanks,

Andy

 

 

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 = at 2:05 PM, Kiran.Makhijani <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com> wrote:

Dear all,

We invite you to = participate in NS side meeting at IETF 98. The details are as follows = -

 

-          = Location: Room Vevey 1/2,

-          = Date/Time: 2017.03.27, 18:15-21:15

-          = Agenda: = https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IETF98_Sidemeeting02

Please see detailed = (agenda.md)= and summarized (agenda.txt) text.

 

Note that date/room = may change from Monday 18:15 - 21:15 to Tuesday or = Wednesday.

 

Regards

Kiran, (along with = DongJie, Alex, Stewart)


_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

 


_______________________________________________
Netslices = mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

= --Apple-Mail=_BF8C5049-D578-411D-9470-B8227EFC4EFC-- From nobody Fri Mar 17 04:57:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AAFF127B60 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 04:57:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XaNa4uKa0qRg for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 04:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 357941286AB for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 04:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coqVR-0007ls-5O for netslices@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:57:17 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coqVQ-0002x3-UQ for netslices@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:57:16 +0000 To: netslices@ietf.org References: <1622973A-F6D2-491A-A1A3-A488AEFB21AD@huawei.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:57:16 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1622973A-F6D2-491A-A1A3-A488AEFB21AD@huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AFE159759E11D968F2F123B0" X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:57:21 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AFE159759E11D968F2F123B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is again - repeating from ITU and 3GPP into IETF. What goes on there can happily stay there. The MOST BASIC Slice case which predates 3GPP and ITU by at least 5 years (if not a decade) is vCPE. Not present. It also is a DEPLOYED use case while the rest are all at varying pipe dream leve. So I suggest rewriting the document starting with deployed use cases in active use and putting pipe dreams of various diameter on the backburner. A. On 17/03/17 06:53, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: > > Hello, > > We have submitted a Network slicing use case draft. > > __ > > This draft briefly describes use cases that benefit from Network > Slicing. We have divided use cases into broader categories, and > mention a few related requirements. > > It will be presented during the side meeting in Chicago. We welcome > both comments and contributions. This is first version and very much a > work in progress. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qin-netslices-use-cases-00 > > Regards > > Kiran (on behalf of all the authors) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices --------------AFE159759E11D968F2F123B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
This is again - repeating from ITU and 3GPP into IETF. What goes on there can happily stay there.

The MOST BASIC Slice case which predates 3GPP and ITU by at least 5 years (if not a decade) is vCPE. Not present.

It also is a DEPLOYED use case while the rest are all at varying pipe dream leve.

So I suggest rewriting the document starting with deployed use cases in active use and putting pipe dreams of various diameter on the backburner.

A.


On 17/03/17 06:53, Kiran.Makhijani wrote:

Hello,

We have submitted a Network slicing use case draft.

 

This draft briefly describes use cases that benefit from Network Slicing. We have divided use cases into broader categories, and mention a few related requirements.

 

It will be presented during the side meeting in Chicago. We welcome both comments and contributions. This is first version and very much a work in progress.

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qin-netslices-use-cases-00

 

 

Regards

Kiran  (on behalf of all the authors)



_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


--------------AFE159759E11D968F2F123B0-- From nobody Fri Mar 17 06:56:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B433D129437 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 06:56:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=lucidvision.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qs-k2isuHpAZ for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 06:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidab1.miniserver.com [78.31.106.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D349128D2E for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 06:56:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lucidvision.com; s=default; t=1489758957; bh=1JDEW5eniEGWGkAm44kRM31hewcb2dg6IiK/L+QoMXQ=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=YLnxbbfCudFKbwpqptojGZBcvwu/IyqYskiauIAjqLwXnlj0naCEKqp7eH8+bXQR7 v9rVRCRPkXMot8RI43G8IG76de6aA3rPo/aIKKGKPHswbMg7tANO1rgVMy5rL2QDFB Q4cKokF5yHxIE403CFcurl3bbtNoyKz/YYWdkYyw= X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.255.148.181; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_844FF300-D1F2-44DD-8488-91C20F81C3BF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Thomas Nadeau In-Reply-To: <010b01d29f02$a1e8b860$e5ba2920$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:56:04 -0400 Cc: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Andrew G. Malis" , "Kiran.Makhijani" , Alex Galis , netslices@ietf.org, "stewart.bryant" Message-Id: <3EB96062-920A-44B7-8887-D187B44BE08D@lucidvision.com> References: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927935C0911@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <010b01d29f02$a1e8b860$e5ba2920$@olddog.co.uk> To: Farrel Adrian X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Authenticated-User: tnadeau@lucidvision.com X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-Encryption: SSL encrypted X-MyRbl: Color=Yellow Age=0 Spam=0 Notspam=1 Stars=0 Good=0 Friend=0 Surbl=0 Catch=0 r=0 ip=50.255.148.181 X-IP-stats: Notspam Incoming Last 0, First 672, in=4982, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=50.255.148.181 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 13:56:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_844FF300-D1F2-44DD-8488-91C20F81C3BF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I would also encourage you to setup something for remote = participation, as well as keep detailed notes so that others that cannot attend, can understand what was discussed and = any decisions that were made. =E2=80=94Tom > On Mar 17, 2017:5:41 AM, at 5:41 AM, Adrian Farrel = wrote: >=20 > As someone said before, it is really unfortunate to have this meeting = conflict with various WG meetings that are not scheduled to end until = 18.40. > =20 > Can I urge you to delay the start of your meeting? > =20 > Thanks, > Adrian > =20 > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Dongjie (Jimmy) > Sent: 17 March 2017 09:25 > To: Andrew G. Malis; Kiran.Makhijani > Cc: Alex Galis; netslices@ietf.org ; = stewart.bryant > Subject: [Netslices] Side meeting moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 = NetSlices side meeting agenda posted > =20 > Hi Andy and all,=20 > =20 > We=E2=80=99ve got the confirmation that our side meeting is moved to = Tuesday the same time (18:15-21:15), same room (Vevey 1/2).=20 > =20 > As Andy mentioned there will be some overlap with the end of the SFC = session, maybe we could start a bit late than scheduled. > =20 > Best regards, > Jie > =20 > From: Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com = ]=20 > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 4:22 AM > To: Kiran.Makhijani > > Cc: netslices@ietf.org ; Alex Galis = >; Dongjie (Jimmy) = >; stewart.bryant = > > Subject: Re: [Netslices] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted > =20 > If you move to Tuesday, please make the start time 18:50 (SFC and = other WGs run until 18:40). > =20 > Thanks, > Andy > =20 > =20 > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Kiran.Makhijani = > wrote: >> Dear all,=20 >> We invite you to participate in NS side meeting at IETF 98. The = details are as follows - >> =20 >> - Location: Room Vevey 1/2, >>=20 >> - Date/Time: 2017.03.27, 18:15-21:15 >>=20 >> - Agenda: = https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IETF98_Sidemeeting= 02 = >> Please see detailed (agenda.md ) and summarized = (agenda.txt) text. >> =20 >> Note that date/room may change from Monday 18:15 - 21:15 to Tuesday = or Wednesday. >> =20 >> Regards >> Kiran, (along with DongJie, Alex, Stewart) >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices = --Apple-Mail=_844FF300-D1F2-44DD-8488-91C20F81C3BF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

I would = also encourage you to setup something for remote participation, as well = as keep detailed notes
so that others that cannot attend, = can understand what was discussed and any decisions that were made.

= =E2=80=94Tom


On Mar 17, 2017:5:41 AM, at 5:41 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>= wrote:

As = someone said before, it is really unfortunate to have this meeting = conflict with various WG meetings that are not scheduled to end until = 18.40.
 
Can I urge you to delay the start of your = meeting?
 
Thanks,
Adrian
 
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Dongjie = (Jimmy)
Sent: 17 March 2017 09:25
To: Andrew G. Malis; = Kiran.Makhijani
Cc: Alex Galis; netslices@ietf.org; = stewart.bryant
Subject: [Netslices] Side meeting = moved to Tuesday\\RE: IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda posted
 
Hi Andy and all, 
 
We=E2=80=99ve got the = confirmation that our side meeting is moved to Tuesday the same time = (18:15-21:15), same room (Vevey 1/2). 
 
As Andy mentioned there = will be some overlap with the end of the SFC session, maybe we could = start a bit late than scheduled.
 
Best regards,
Jie
 
From: Andrew G. = Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 4:22 = AM
To: Kiran.Makhijani <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com>
Cc: netslices@ietf.org; Alex = Galis <galis.alex@gmail.com>; Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; = stewart.bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] IETF98 = NetSlices side meeting agenda posted
 
If you = move to Tuesday, please make the start time 18:50 (SFC and other WGs run = until 18:40).
 
Thanks,
Andy
 
 
On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 2:05 PM, = Kiran.Makhijani <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com> wrote:
Dear all, 
We invite you to = participate in NS side meeting at IETF 98. The details are as follows = -
 

-          Location: Room Vevey = 1/2,

-          Date/Time: 2017.03.27, = 18:15-21:15

-          Agenda: https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IETF98_= Sidemeeting02

Please see = detailed (agenda.md) and = summarized (agenda.txt) text.
 
Note that date/room = may change from Monday 18:15 - 21:15 to Tuesday or = Wednesday.
 
Regards
Kiran, (along with DongJie, Alex, Stewart)


_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

 
_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing = list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

= --Apple-Mail=_844FF300-D1F2-44DD-8488-91C20F81C3BF-- From nobody Fri Mar 17 13:38:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C1C12953D for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 13:38:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqouOuU8zBix for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 13:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35150129533 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 13:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJC21797; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 20:38:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 20:38:17 +0000 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.132]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.69]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 17 Mar 2017 13:38:02 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: Anton Ivanov , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases Thread-Index: AQHSnuszUyXvGxPC0E2nEGQzWlRmXaGZYsAAgAAcJoA= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 20:38:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1622973A-F6D2-491A-A1A3-A488AEFB21AD@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.38] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EBF89A3740F94A768C80E70F85B5D2EFhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.58CC493B.017F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.132, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 701b4133c8a67fadfaeb9cabb52edb2d Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0ixdmxlbfBaa for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 08:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98AE6127201 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 08:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cpGCl-0001C3-4U; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:23:43 +0000 Received: from [85.255.235.239] (helo=[192.168.42.162]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cpGCk-0003QX-Oc; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:23:42 +0000 To: "Kiran.Makhijani" , "netslices@ietf.org" References: <1622973A-F6D2-491A-A1A3-A488AEFB21AD@huawei.com> From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:23:36 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9EF60663448511FE7C19E073" X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:23:53 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9EF60663448511FE7C19E073 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I will see if I can write it up properly before Chicago. Cannot promise - my schedule is quite full. A On 17/03/17 20:38, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: > > Hi Anton, > > Agreed. > > My apologies, I am not well aware of vCPE use case. It will be useful > to discuss it as well (can you please share reference/pointer to > this?). Right now, name suggests it is a n/w function or a virtualized > CPE– I am sure there’s more to it. > > In fact, VoLTE problem that David described can also be included. That > is why I said there are 2 considerations, one for emerging/newer and > second for existing/active ones. Section 3.4 is meant to serve > existing use cases. > > Architecture/Deployment of NS should provide support for both. > > -Kiran > > *From: *Netslices on behalf of Anton > Ivanov > *Date: *Friday, March 17, 2017 at 4:57 AM > *To: *"netslices@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases > > This is again - repeating from ITU and 3GPP into IETF. What goes on > there can happily stay there. > > The MOST BASIC Slice case which predates 3GPP and ITU by at least 5 > years (if not a decade) is vCPE. Not present. > > It also is a DEPLOYED use case while the rest are all at varying pipe > dream leve. > > So I suggest rewriting the document starting with deployed use cases > in active use and putting pipe dreams of various diameter on the > backburner. > > A. > > > On 17/03/17 06:53, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: > > Hello, > > We have submitted a Network slicing use case draft. > > This draft briefly describes use cases that benefit from Network > Slicing. We have divided use cases into broader categories, and > mention a few related requirements. > > It will be presented during the side meeting in Chicago. We > welcome both comments and contributions. This is first version and > very much a work in progress. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qin-netslices-use-cases-00 > > Regards > > Kiran (on behalf of all the authors) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > --------------9EF60663448511FE7C19E073 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I will see if I can write it up properly before Chicago.

Cannot promise - my schedule is quite full.

A

On 17/03/17 20:38, Kiran.Makhijani wrote:

Hi Anton,

Agreed.

My apologies, I am not well aware of vCPE use case. It will be useful to discuss it as well (can you please share reference/pointer to this?). Right now, name suggests it is a n/w function or a virtualized CPE– I am sure there’s more to it.

In fact, VoLTE problem that David described can also be included. That is why I said there are 2 considerations, one for emerging/newer and second for existing/active ones. Section 3.4 is meant to serve existing use cases.

 

Architecture/Deployment of NS should provide support for both.

 

 

-Kiran

 

From: Netslices <netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
Date: Friday, March 17, 2017 at 4:57 AM
To: "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases

 

This is again - repeating from ITU and 3GPP into IETF. What goes on there can happily stay there.

The MOST BASIC Slice case which predates 3GPP and ITU by at least 5 years (if not a decade) is vCPE. Not present.

It also is a DEPLOYED use case while the rest are all at varying pipe dream leve.

So I suggest rewriting the document starting with deployed use cases in active use and putting pipe dreams of various diameter on the backburner.

A.


On 17/03/17 06:53, Kiran.Makhijani wrote:

Hello,

We have submitted a Network slicing use case draft.

 

This draft briefly describes use cases that benefit from Network Slicing. We have divided use cases into broader categories, and mention a few related requirements.

 

It will be presented during the side meeting in Chicago. We welcome both comments and contributions. This is first version and very much a work in progress.

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qin-netslices-use-cases-00

 

 

Regards

Kiran  (on behalf of all the authors)




_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

 


--------------9EF60663448511FE7C19E073-- From nobody Wed Mar 22 02:22:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D751315E5 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 02:22:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.385 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.385 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.796, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dcg_R7WwMk2S for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 02:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD8C1315D7 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 02:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 08FCE606B2; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:22:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.63]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id D10FB8006E; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:22:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM6E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f5a7:eab1:c095:d9ec%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:22:08 +0100 From: To: Anton Ivanov , Kiran.Makhijani , "netslices@ietf.org" CC: "Lee, Yiu (Yiu_Lee@comcast.com)" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases Thread-Index: AQHSnuszUyXvGxPC0E2nEGQzWlRmXaGY3KQAgACRf4CAATp8AIAF8W6A Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 09:22:08 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E3752E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <1622973A-F6D2-491A-A1A3-A488AEFB21AD@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E3752EOPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kWW_H-rrLhq8 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 02:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC716131668 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 02:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cqcr3-0004KF-W3; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 09:46:58 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cqcr3-0001Qq-OQ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 09:46:57 +0000 To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, "Kiran.Makhijani" , "netslices@ietf.org" References: <1622973A-F6D2-491A-A1A3-A488AEFB21AD@huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E3752E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Cc: "Lee, Yiu (Yiu_Lee@comcast.com)" From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: <711982ec-60c5-86d8-5faa-498034bcdff1@kot-begemot.co.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 09:46:57 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E3752E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AB165CAA0FA4F93CE7A18C2A" X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 09:47:06 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AB165CAA0FA4F93CE7A18C2A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 22/03/17 09:22, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > > Dear Anton, all, > > Putting aside whether vCPE can be called a (network) slice case or not, > vCPE itself - no. The whole vertical - Virtualized Home Network + Backhaul or VPN resource to transport it + the vCPE instance at the provider CO is an obvious slice. It is a better fit to the "abstract" definition of a slice than the 5G use case. > some documents that can be cited are available here: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lee-vhs-ps-02and > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lee-vhs-usecases-02. > Thanks, will look at them. A. > Cheers, > > Med > > *De :*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* > Anton Ivanov > *Envoyé :* samedi 18 mars 2017 16:24 > *À :* Kiran.Makhijani; netslices@ietf.org > *Objet :* Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases > > I will see if I can write it up properly before Chicago. > > Cannot promise - my schedule is quite full. > > A > > On 17/03/17 20:38, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: > > Hi Anton, > > Agreed. > > My apologies, I am not well aware of vCPE use case. It will be > useful to discuss it as well (can you please share > reference/pointer to this?). Right now, name suggests it is a n/w > function or a virtualized CPE– I am sure there’s more to it. > > In fact, VoLTE problem that David described can also be included. > That is why I said there are 2 considerations, one for > emerging/newer and second for existing/active ones. Section 3.4 is > meant to serve existing use cases. > > Architecture/Deployment of NS should provide support for both. > > -Kiran > > *From: *Netslices > on behalf of Anton Ivanov > > > *Date: *Friday, March 17, 2017 at 4:57 AM > *To: *"netslices@ietf.org" > > *Subject: *Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases > > This is again - repeating from ITU and 3GPP into IETF. What goes > on there can happily stay there. > > The MOST BASIC Slice case which predates 3GPP and ITU by at least > 5 years (if not a decade) is vCPE. Not present. > > It also is a DEPLOYED use case while the rest are all at varying > pipe dream leve. > > So I suggest rewriting the document starting with deployed use > cases in active use and putting pipe dreams of various diameter on > the backburner. > > A. > > > On 17/03/17 06:53, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: > > Hello, > > We have submitted a Network slicing use case draft. > > This draft briefly describes use cases that benefit from > Network Slicing. We have divided use cases into broader > categories, and mention a few related requirements. > > It will be presented during the side meeting in Chicago. We > welcome both comments and contributions. This is first version > and very much a work in progress. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qin-netslices-use-cases-00 > > Regards > > Kiran (on behalf of all the authors) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > --------------AB165CAA0FA4F93CE7A18C2A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 22/03/17 09:22, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:

Dear Anton, all,

 

Putting aside whether vCPE can be called a (network) slice case or not,


vCPE itself - no. The whole vertical - Virtualized Home Network + Backhaul or VPN resource to transport it + the vCPE instance at the provider CO is an obvious slice. It is a better fit to the "abstract" definition of a slice than the 5G use case.

some documents that can be cited are available here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lee-vhs-ps-02 and https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lee-vhs-usecases-02.


Thanks, will look at them.

A.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Anton Ivanov
Envoyé : samedi 18 mars 2017 16:24
À : Kiran.Makhijani; netslices@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases

 

I will see if I can write it up properly before Chicago.

Cannot promise - my schedule is quite full.

A

On 17/03/17 20:38, Kiran.Makhijani wrote:

Hi Anton,

Agreed.

My apologies, I am not well aware of vCPE use case. It will be useful to discuss it as well (can you please share reference/pointer to this?). Right now, name suggests it is a n/w function or a virtualized CPE– I am sure there’s more to it.

In fact, VoLTE problem that David described can also be included. That is why I said there are 2 considerations, one for emerging/newer and second for existing/active ones. Section 3.4 is meant to serve existing use cases.

 

Architecture/Deployment of NS should provide support for both.

 

 

-Kiran

 

From: Netslices <netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
Date: Friday, March 17, 2017 at 4:57 AM
To: "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases

 

This is again - repeating from ITU and 3GPP into IETF. What goes on there can happily stay there.

The MOST BASIC Slice case which predates 3GPP and ITU by at least 5 years (if not a decade) is vCPE. Not present.

It also is a DEPLOYED use case while the rest are all at varying pipe dream leve.

So I suggest rewriting the document starting with deployed use cases in active use and putting pipe dreams of various diameter on the backburner.

A.


On 17/03/17 06:53, Kiran.Makhijani wrote:

Hello,

We have submitted a Network slicing use case draft.

 

This draft briefly describes use cases that benefit from Network Slicing. We have divided use cases into broader categories, and mention a few related requirements.

 

It will be presented during the side meeting in Chicago. We welcome both comments and contributions. This is first version and very much a work in progress.

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qin-netslices-use-cases-00

 

 

Regards

Kiran  (on behalf of all the authors)





_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

 

 


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c3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E3C5C2OPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Wed Mar 22 03:21:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAAC3131696 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 03:21:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XDhkU1CiU0-u for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 03:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 520B31316B5 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 03:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cqdOO-0004L7-KR; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:21:24 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cqdOO-0001nB-A0; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:21:24 +0000 To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, "Kiran.Makhijani" , "netslices@ietf.org" References: <1622973A-F6D2-491A-A1A3-A488AEFB21AD@huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E3752E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <711982ec-60c5-86d8-5faa-498034bcdff1@kot-begemot.co.uk> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E3C5C2@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Cc: "Lee, Yiu (Yiu_Lee@comcast.com)" From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:21:24 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E3C5C2@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------88CF05303AC2E95446CB1FFC" X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:21:34 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------88CF05303AC2E95446CB1FFC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 22/03/17 10:15, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > > Hi Anton, > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > > Med > > *De :*Anton Ivanov [mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk] > *Envoyé :* mercredi 22 mars 2017 10:47 > *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; Kiran.Makhijani; netslices@ietf.org > *Cc :* Lee, Yiu (Yiu_Lee@comcast.com) > *Objet :* Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases > > On 22/03/17 09:22, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > wrote: > > Dear Anton, all, > > Putting aside whether vCPE can be called a (network) slice case or > not, > > > vCPE itself - no. The whole vertical - Virtualized Home Network + > Backhaul or VPN resource to transport it + the vCPE instance at the > provider CO is an obvious slice. > > [Med] That makes more sense to me … even if the pieces you quoted > seems to adopt a microscopic level (per-subscriber slice). > Per subscriber slice is still a slice. A. > I prefer a more aggregate vision that is not per-subscriber…but per > class of services/application/customers sharing a common set of > requirements. Obviously, the use of VPN or other means is > deployment-specific and should be kept as such. > > It is a better fit to the "abstract" definition of a slice than the 5G > use case. > > some documents that can be cited are available here: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lee-vhs-ps-02and > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lee-vhs-usecases-02. > > > Thanks, will look at them. > > A. > > > Cheers, > > Med > > *De :*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* > Anton Ivanov > *Envoyé :* samedi 18 mars 2017 16:24 > *À :* Kiran.Makhijani; netslices@ietf.org > *Objet :* Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases > > I will see if I can write it up properly before Chicago. > > Cannot promise - my schedule is quite full. > > A > > On 17/03/17 20:38, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: > > Hi Anton, > > Agreed. > > My apologies, I am not well aware of vCPE use case. It will be > useful to discuss it as well (can you please share > reference/pointer to this?). Right now, name suggests it is a n/w > function or a virtualized CPE– I am sure there’s more to it. > > In fact, VoLTE problem that David described can also be included. > That is why I said there are 2 considerations, one for > emerging/newer and second for existing/active ones. Section 3.4 is > meant to serve existing use cases. > > Architecture/Deployment of NS should provide support for both. > > -Kiran > > *From: *Netslices > on behalf of Anton Ivanov > > > *Date: *Friday, March 17, 2017 at 4:57 AM > *To: *"netslices@ietf.org" > > *Subject: *Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases > > This is again - repeating from ITU and 3GPP into IETF. What goes > on there can happily stay there. > > The MOST BASIC Slice case which predates 3GPP and ITU by at least > 5 years (if not a decade) is vCPE. Not present. > > It also is a DEPLOYED use case while the rest are all at varying > pipe dream leve. > > So I suggest rewriting the document starting with deployed use > cases in active use and putting pipe dreams of various diameter on > the backburner. > > A. > > > On 17/03/17 06:53, Kiran.Makhijani wrote: > > Hello, > > We have submitted a Network slicing use case draft. > > This draft briefly describes use cases that benefit from > Network Slicing. We have divided use cases into broader > categories, and mention a few related requirements. > > It will be presented during the side meeting in Chicago. We > welcome both comments and contributions. This is first version > and very much a work in progress. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qin-netslices-use-cases-00 > > Regards > > Kiran (on behalf of all the authors) > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > --------------88CF05303AC2E95446CB1FFC Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 22/03/17 10:15, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:

Hi Anton,

 

Please see inline.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : Anton Ivanov [mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk]
Envoyé : mercredi 22 mars 2017 10:47
À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; Kiran.Makhijani; netslices@ietf.org
Cc : Lee, Yiu (Yiu_Lee@comcast.com)
Objet : Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases

 

On 22/03/17 09:22, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:

Dear Anton, all,

 

Putting aside whether vCPE can be called a (network) slice case or not,


vCPE itself - no. The whole vertical - Virtualized Home Network + Backhaul or VPN resource to transport it + the vCPE instance at the provider CO is an obvious slice.

[Med] That makes more sense to me … even if the pieces you quoted seems to adopt a microscopic level (per-subscriber slice).


Per subscriber slice is still a slice.

A.

I prefer a more aggregate vision that is not per-subscriber…but per class of services/application/customers sharing a common set of requirements. Obviously, the use of VPN or other means is deployment-specific and should be kept as such.  

 

It is a better fit to the "abstract" definition of a slice than the 5G use case.

 

some documents that can be cited are available here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lee-vhs-ps-02 and https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lee-vhs-usecases-02.


Thanks, will look at them.

A.


 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Anton Ivanov
Envoyé : samedi 18 mars 2017 16:24
À : Kiran.Makhijani; netslices@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases

 

I will see if I can write it up properly before Chicago.

Cannot promise - my schedule is quite full.

A

On 17/03/17 20:38, Kiran.Makhijani wrote:

Hi Anton,

Agreed.

My apologies, I am not well aware of vCPE use case. It will be useful to discuss it as well (can you please share reference/pointer to this?). Right now, name suggests it is a n/w function or a virtualized CPE– I am sure there’s more to it.

In fact, VoLTE problem that David described can also be included. That is why I said there are 2 considerations, one for emerging/newer and second for existing/active ones. Section 3.4 is meant to serve existing use cases.

 

Architecture/Deployment of NS should provide support for both.

 

 

-Kiran

 

From: Netslices <netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
Date: Friday, March 17, 2017 at 4:57 AM
To: "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] New draft on Network Slicing use cases

 

This is again - repeating from ITU and 3GPP into IETF. What goes on there can happily stay there.

The MOST BASIC Slice case which predates 3GPP and ITU by at least 5 years (if not a decade) is vCPE. Not present.

It also is a DEPLOYED use case while the rest are all at varying pipe dream leve.

So I suggest rewriting the document starting with deployed use cases in active use and putting pipe dreams of various diameter on the backburner.

A.


On 17/03/17 06:53, Kiran.Makhijani wrote:

Hello,

We have submitted a Network slicing use case draft.

 

This draft briefly describes use cases that benefit from Network Slicing. We have divided use cases into broader categories, and mention a few related requirements.

 

It will be presented during the side meeting in Chicago. We welcome both comments and contributions. This is first version and very much a work in progress.

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qin-netslices-use-cases-00

 

 

Regards

Kiran  (on behalf of all the authors)






_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

 

 

 


--------------88CF05303AC2E95446CB1FFC-- From nobody Wed Mar 22 11:52:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C62481273B1 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 11:52:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IBJwAbfTGP-a for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 11:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19B4E129644 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 11:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DDG35120; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 18:52:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 18:52:15 +0000 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.233]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 22 Mar 2017 11:52:02 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: "netslices@ietf.org" CC: Alex Galis , "stewart.bryant" , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" Thread-Topic: Confirmed: Side meeting schedule - 27 Mar'17 (Mon) 18:15 pm; Location: Vevey-1/2 Thread-Index: AQHSoz1kWqlMBQnjL0qLtTtak9BTVQ== Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 18:52:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.14] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DFC93FD9DE524E5AA2C864187C8713BEhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.58D2C7E1.00FE, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 18ef9fb44be4ef54091db8f064659196 Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Confirmed: Side meeting schedule - 27 Mar'17 (Mon) 18:15 pm; Location: Vevey-1/2 X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A896F127871 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 12:59:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cUOxufCW4Pzi for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 12:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5640F127B52 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 12:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJQ32532; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 19:59:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 19:59:07 +0000 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.195]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 12:58:50 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: "netslices@ietf.org" CC: pengshuping , "qiangli (D)" , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "qinjun (G)" Thread-Topic: Revised version of draft on Network Slicing use cases Thread-Index: AQHSpaI4PRhyCUonl02ubTWuRcYTzw== Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 19:58:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.245.90] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D4F52AAD7EB846F8932DFDB5AB4DA67Dhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.58D6CC0C.0185, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: faddf9a5fc81bb079c4ad16a44cbe107 Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Revised version of draft on Network Slicing use cases X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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27 13:35:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFAEE129637 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:35:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.081 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.081 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RYpmhf2EnbL9 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E67D212963D for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2RKZ8DE025794 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:35:08 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dhcp-8535.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.133.53]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v2RKZ67b025788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:35:08 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Network Slices" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:35:07 +0100 Message-ID: <082901d2a739$a01152b0$e033f810$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdKnOZvzDGXRhS6IQ9WkFBtZz36DRA== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-22970.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--2.242-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--2.242-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: w4U4ehrQtf7vXvInwhwK20K9qlwiTElfQnVGRb78vpAKXKtfi06bFKPF jJEFr+olfeZdJ1XsoriRWsJTzzeWftAtbEEX0MxBxEHRux+uk8ifEzJ5hPndGVoQpI4p8LouH+1 WihVcXswJsP0pGFFq+edbD5uuaHVLb0jFcl83s1WAp9YditdmhJwDZXmZ5E/mTapd5qnbgLNoDf VwLRH6HKXU79a9DSYsj00kU/KsUFEuDgHqaPqiZxWqL8Ti0t7eVlxr1FJij9s= Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Can someone please clarify when/where the netslices meeting is. X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 20:35:15 -0000 I see... https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netslices/current/msg00182.html Monday 27th https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netslices/current/msg00168.html Tuesday 28th https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netslices/current/msg00163.html Monday Thanks, Adrian From nobody Mon Mar 27 13:44:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B44129669 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:44:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dF5E7iIKNCai for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot0-x230.google.com (mail-ot0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A99A112965B for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot0-x230.google.com with SMTP id t8so34657323otf.3 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:44:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fKFi8E3RsZV09wbr172DfpjCE9EISl2ZzbSnmAfEqxs=; b=hX91l/GPjSmBPT5Gqb26J2Ul4hx21xuzyyaoHKqgzjEVhw186x7iGTcUcOylBepyxQ reY8KVHfFYtpM9Qzem3ozOpSy9iTNzEl4gjtmukuetD7tiLXQikLqh3bFFW2uprAlp7Z ojTK1lDQUS9906zqVsTGRRbS+Sc3Te79uAhDZcMIt9ZEyMn0qVnoL/qxjmpZFlBbrFnR Wji93Aq1j3eJ3+Lg0Vok1dEF0pkWc3L04nvUW8EtxyRD2b5CEhMUqRiiKzLCaJlGY/Xw LxNwnXpWAmZMfu5mM0vlru+s8z6w3HAJ8CMrkiF4c67YKaMst6qfdFOcGxCG+cimeEeA jGaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fKFi8E3RsZV09wbr172DfpjCE9EISl2ZzbSnmAfEqxs=; b=HvsaZ50kaKuVcKEMCffe8cqfzEZqNqXENKocB1G1K46m9cYMNK7uLkumx2Zq/eRMpo AyRrmqCP9WjGjnvpeSHvhObhxMTnpzaTgK3DpmBqhKfkVK/SUvj08LsH0gOvZ/6UhNhC ZOrDAU4JysUGs33te6dQd4H3LXg0QdtLHFtM3HzxOm9SHv/jXBNxJ+gvw/T2/8oIA2KB ttQlfGQEIaijER3UNcAZ50KC6ns9DwCjaA56hHLoPnMARCHWRwDX7300AGIeQqJsX2nc zqWFJAVi5MXs2XynxR6Wz0EyW6R2Tfw3ufUzJHusvYKIbjc3l0ePkuI19DoaMVVIxrxu n9TQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H3vcSsrEBZ+ZjjSV5HbFoPfcR/+G3jLCw5KOhetr2SYJHt83suUK+AIICOy+mkabPdA4XzTMfpGBxzL/A== X-Received: by 10.157.82.171 with SMTP id f43mr11455579oth.191.1490647488054; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:44:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.231.201 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:44:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <082901d2a739$a01152b0$e033f810$@olddog.co.uk> References: <082901d2a739$a01152b0$e033f810$@olddog.co.uk> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 15:44:27 -0500 Message-ID: To: Adrian Farrel Cc: Network Slices Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f4030437965c02cf08054bbc6a09 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Can someone please clarify when/where the netslices meeting is. X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 20:44:54 -0000 --f4030437965c02cf08054bbc6a09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Adrian, Today (Monday), 18:15, Vevey 1/2. Cheers, Andy On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > I see... > > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netslices/current/msg00182.html > Monday 27th > > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netslices/current/msg00168.html > Tuesday 28th > > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netslices/current/msg00163.html > Monday > > Thanks, > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > --f4030437965c02cf08054bbc6a09 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Adrian,

Today (Monday), 18:15,=C2=A0Vev= ey 1/2.

Cheers,
Andy


On Mon, Ma= r 27, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>= wrote:
I see...

https://www.ietf.org/mail-= archive/web/netslices/current/msg00182.html
Monday 27th

https://www.ietf.org/mail-= archive/web/netslices/current/msg00168.html
Tuesday 28th

https://www.ietf.org/mail-= archive/web/netslices/current/msg00163.html
Monday

Thanks,
Adrian

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices<= /a>

--f4030437965c02cf08054bbc6a09-- From nobody Mon Mar 27 14:15:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6154126DEE for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:15:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p_Edovtjx4qZ for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 524CE124234 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJT28671; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:15:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 22:15:38 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.195]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:15:20 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: "netslices@ietf.org" CC: Alex Galis , "stewart.bryant" , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" Thread-Topic: Seeking volunteers to take notes Thread-Index: AQHSpz89K/wvCOuMZEKdA87R5H34hQ== Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:15:19 +0000 Message-ID: <3B2BA29D-1379-4B16-BDC2-F931D71CD676@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.158.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3B2BA29D13794B16BDC2F931D71CD676huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.58D980FC.0170, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: b16186e2e044395b33bbe038526e0908 Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Seeking volunteers to take notes X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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Mon, 27 Mar 2017 23:30:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 00:30:32 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.233]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 16:30:24 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Slides for side meeting Thread-Index: AQHSp1IaMoIbHRu1l0u4C1NhR93GwA== Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 23:30:22 +0000 Message-ID: <2304F3B5-DAD9-4B9A-BC24-11BDA3D30A0B@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.145.181] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2304F3B5DAD94B9ABC2411BDA3D30A0Bhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.58D9A099.01E9, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 068986f3fbf17c62878f157ec7643fa6 Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Slides for side meeting X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 01:39:00 +0200 Received: from dhcp-80eb.meeting.ietf.org (31.133.128.235) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 01:38:53 +0200 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 18:38:47 -0500 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <2304F3B5-DAD9-4B9A-BC24-11BDA3D30A0B@huawei.com> References: <2304F3B5-DAD9-4B9A-BC24-11BDA3D30A0B@huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----O5KZW52C07WG1LSVOZCK01TBUML0PW" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: <6E81EE37-7EA6-4B92-95DE-76DC94E81D02@sit.fraunhofer.de> X-Originating-IP: [31.133.128.235] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Slides for side meeting X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 23:39:08 -0000 ------O5KZW52C07WG1LSVOZCK01TBUML0PW Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, will there be audio & video recording available afterwards? Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Henk --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E ------O5KZW52C07WG1LSVOZCK01TBUML0PW Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello,

will there be audio & video recording available afterwards?

Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe,

Henk
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E ------O5KZW52C07WG1LSVOZCK01TBUML0PW-- From nobody Mon Mar 27 17:18:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20CC21296D3 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 17:18:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id twJG_vEpEdqr for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 17:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 037621296CE for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 17:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJT42807; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 00:18:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 01:18:02 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.223]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 08:17:59 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda and schedule (27/03 Mon @ 18:15) Location: Vevey 1/2 Thread-Index: AQHSoz+5Xjw5TZfZoEyeQL1fJee2j6GhUdQAgADyeYCAAMIHAIAEVeUAgAIOGFA= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 00:17:59 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927936147DA@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.145.4] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927936147DANKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.58D9ABBD.005A, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.223, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: aace8d1441fe209b3f9c0129b4309f0c Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] FW: [nvo3] IETF98 NetSlices side meeting agenda and schedule (27/03 Mon @ 18:15) Location: Vevey 1/2 X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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[2001:67c:370:128:3383:f67d:1f33:6674]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a184sm1109101ioe.62.2017.03.27.18.07.59 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 27 Mar 2017 18:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1490663279.11110.17.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es To: "netslices@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 03:07:59 +0200 Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.5-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] About network slicing in multi-domain X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 01:08:04 -0000 Hi, Complementing what Hannu presented, this is the European project (5GEx) I mentioned on the mike: https://www.5gex.eu/ We are specifically looking into multi-domain orchestration and slicing aspects. If you have any comments/questions, we would be happy to answer them. Thanks, Carlos From nobody Tue Mar 28 16:51:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4368A126CE8 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 16:51:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.696 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.696 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.796, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AZXrgaHNpPhx for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 16:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr30126.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.3.126]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA7D4126E3A for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 23:51:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_25C2F6A1-1701-457E-9310-A73CDC23DD2C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear NetSlicing folks, =20 Re: NS side meeting =E2=80=93 IETF98 Monday 27th March 2017 18:15-21:15 =20 It was a great pleasure to meet some of you at the NS side meeting of = Monday 27th March 2017 in Chicago. =20 My short notes as minutes of this meeting as follows: 1. Scope of the meeting: Scope of the NS meeting: Present and = discuss use cases, architecture and identify technical problems to be = address by future work at IETF 2. An audience of approx 125 with a very full agenda I. Context & Revisited NS Problem Statement #01: =E2=80=9CIntroductory Document and Revised Problem Statement walk = through=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 presenter: Alex Galis - UCL - Huawei =20 II. Towards NS Use Cases #02: =E2=80=9C5G Network Slicing - 3GPP Use Case background=E2=80=9D - = presenter: Xavier DeFoy -InterDigital #03: =E2=80=9CGeneralized Market/Service Verticals with Network Slicing = Use cases=E2=80=9D- presenter: K. Makhijani- Huawei #04: =E2=80=9CAn ICN service delivery prototype using slices=E2=80=9D - = presenter: Ravi Ravindran - Huawei =20 III. Towards Operators Ecosystem Viewpoints #05: =E2=80=9CNetwork Slicing architecture=E2=80=9D- presenter: Liang = Geng =E2=80=93 China Mobile #06: =E2=80=9CNetwork Slicing: Technical Viewpoints and Functional = Roles=E2=80=9D- presenter: Pedro Martinez-Julia =E2=80=93 NICT Japan =20 III. Towards Manufactures Viewpoints #07: =E2=80=9CHow to slice Network Slicing for the IETF=E2=80=9D - = presenter: H. Flinck - Nokia #08: =E2=80=9CACTN Virtual Network operation (with Network Slicing = Insights)=E2=80=9D - presenter: G. Grammel - Juniper #09: =E2=80=9CAutomatic Network Slicing Management for Transport = Network=E2=80=9D- presenter: Qiang Li - Huawei #10: =E2=80=9CForwarding Path & Signaling Management=E2=80=9D- = presenter: S. Matsushima- SoftBank =20 IV. Final Q&A & Conclusions: 30 mins All slides from the NS meeting are at: = https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IETF98_Sidemeeting= 023. 3. The presenters have identified a significant number of problem = areas to be addressed at IETF in particular: 19 problem areas identified in #01 7 problem areas identified in #02 4 problem areas identified in #03 4 problem areas identified in #04 9 problem areas identified in #05 8 problem areas identified in #06 7 problem areas identified in #07 7 problem areas identified in #09 10 problem areas identified in #10 =20 4. Descriptive and/or prescriptive definitions for Network Slices = were provided in #01, #05, #06, #07, #08 =20 5. Based on the audience response the following actions are = recommended: =20 =E2=80=A2 Action1: a WG forming BoF will be requested at the next IETF99 = ( unanimous request) =20 =E2=80=A2 Action2: approx 40 member of the audience showed their = interest to contribute in the next 3 months to =E2=80=93 use cases, =E2=80=93 problem statements, =E2=80=93 requirements and architecture =E2=80=93 Exposure Interface specification and data model =E2=80=93 Efficient slice isolation with guarantees for isolation =20 =E2=80=A2 Action 3: Unanimous request to review and consolidate a = descriptive and prescriptive definition of NS =E2=80=A2 Action 4: A draft charter as problem statement for WG = activities that would include: - the description of the standardisation methods / algorithms within = the scope of IETF and the related documents ( NS definition, reference = models, use cases, etc.) - a concrete work plan for 2 years This charter be edited with contributions from the NS members of the = mailing list and made available at = https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices Thank you for all presenters and participants to the meeting which = generated significant discussion and interest. =20 Please add any further notes and/or further minutes for this NS side = meeting =20 Best Regards Alex =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20= --Apple-Mail=_25C2F6A1-1701-457E-9310-A73CDC23DD2C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Dear NetSlicing = folks,

 

Re: NS side meeting =E2=80=93 IETF98 Monday 27th March = 2017 18:15-21:15

 

It was a great pleasure to meet some of you at the NS = side meeting of Monday 27th March 2017 in Chicago.

 

My short notes as minutes = of this meeting as follows:


1.     Scope of the meeting: Scope = of the NS meeting: Present and discuss use cases, architecture and = identify technical problems to be address by future work at = IETF

2.     An audience = of approx 125 with a very full agenda


I. Context & Revisited NS Problem = Statement

#01: =E2=80=9CIntroductory = Document and Revised Problem Statement walk through=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93= presenter: Alex Galis - UCL - Huawei
 

II. Towards NS Use Cases

#02: =E2=80=9C5G Network Slicing - 3GPP Use Case = background=E2=80=9D - presenter: Xavier DeFoy -InterDigital

#03: =E2=80=9CGeneralized Market/Service = Verticals with Network Slicing Use cases=E2=80=9D- presenter: K. = Makhijani- Huawei

#04: =E2=80=9CAn ICN = service delivery prototype using slices=E2=80=9D - presenter: = Ravi Ravindran - Huawei
 

III. Towards Operators Ecosystem Viewpoints

#05: =E2=80=9CNetwork Slicing architecture=E2=80=9D- = presenter: Liang Geng =E2=80=93 China Mobile

#06: =E2=80=9CNetwork Slicing: Technical Viewpoints and = Functional Roles=E2=80=9D- presenter: Pedro Martinez-Julia =E2=80=93 = NICT Japan
 

III. = Towards Manufactures Viewpoints

#07: =E2=80=9C= How to slice Network Slicing for the IETF=E2=80=9D - presenter: = H. Flinck - Nokia

#08: =E2=80=9CACTN = Virtual Network operation (with Network Slicing Insights)=E2=80=9D = - presenter: G. Grammel - Juniper

#09: = =E2=80=9CAutomatic Network Slicing Management for Transport Network=E2=80=9D= - presenter: Qiang Li - Huawei

#10: = =E2=80=9CForwarding Path & Signaling Management=E2=80=9D- presenter: = S. Matsushima- SoftBank
 

IV. Final Q&A & Conclusions: 30 mins

All slides from the NS meeting are at: https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices/tree/master/IET= F98_Sidemeeting023.


3.     The presenters have = identified a significant number of problem areas to be addressed at = IETF in particular:

19 problem areas = identified in #01

7 problem areas = identified in #02

4 problem areas = identified in #03

4 problem areas = identified in #04

9 problem areas = identified in #05

8 problem areas = identified in #06

7 problem areas = identified in #07

7 problem areas = identified in #09

10 problem areas = identified in #10

 
4.     Descriptive and/or = prescriptive definitions for Network Slices were provided = in #01, #05, #06, #07, #08
 

5.  =    Based on the audience response the following = actions are recommended:
 

=E2=80=A2 Action1: a WG forming BoF will be requested at = the next IETF99 ( unanimous request)
 

=E2=80=A2 Action2: approx 40 member of the = audience showed their interest to contribute in the next 3 months = to

=E2=80=93      use = cases,

=E2=80=93    =   problem statements,

=E2=80=93&nbs= p;     requirements and architecture

=E2=80=93      Exposure = Interface specification and data model

=E2=80=93      Efficient slice isolation = with guarantees for isolation
 

=E2=80=A2 Action 3: Unanimous request to review = and consolidate a descriptive and prescriptive definition of = NS


=E2=80=A2 Action 4: A draft = charter as problem statement for WG activities that would = include:

 - the description of = the standardisation methods / algorithms within the scope of IETF = and the related documents ( NS definition, reference models, use = cases, etc.)

 - a concrete work = plan for 2 years

This charter be edited = with contributions from the NS members of the mailing list and made = available at https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices




Thank you for all presenters and participants to the = meeting which generated significant discussion and interest.

 
Please add any further = notes and/or further minutes for this NS side meeting

 

Best = Regards

Alex

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
= --Apple-Mail=_25C2F6A1-1701-457E-9310-A73CDC23DD2C-- From nobody Tue Mar 28 20:17:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FD3129445 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 20:17:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RSY1oD11JzIP for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 20:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE1FF1295B3 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 20:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DDS18493; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 03:17:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 04:17:02 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.223]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:16:55 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Alex Galis , Network Slices Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W05ldHNsaWNlc10gIE5TIHNpZGUgbWVldGluZyDigJMgSUVURjk4IE1vbmRh?= =?utf-8?Q?y_27th_March_2017_/_short_notes_and_minutes?= Thread-Index: AQHSqB42+XS6bAq+T0mhe5FB2Bh/wqGrJD9Q Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 03:16:55 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279361A059@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <265E8837-4F08-4DA1-8B0F-E27BBA2E252B@ucl.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <265E8837-4F08-4DA1-8B0F-E27BBA2E252B@ucl.ac.uk> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.147.189] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279361A059NKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.58DB2730.0101, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.223, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 7a267fed0ea7a923e53805309b307ed4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] =?utf-8?q?NS_side_meeting_=E2=80=93_IETF98_Monday_27?= =?utf-8?q?th_March_2017_/_short_notes_and_minutes?= X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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